I get the spite justification, but seriously, everything up to now makes it clear that Ashan is a bad, bad idea. Ethan right now is in the same boat as Amber, really–not fit enough himself to be in a relationship with someone else. The bit where he tried to bargain his way into Asher’s bed after being given a firm “no” was a whole torrent of red flags. I don’t even care about Asher very much, and I still think he deserves better. (And ‘better’, in my book, would include most of the minor dude characters we’ve seen, including Finger-Guns.)
I still do not get the Asher hate. The guy was like 13 years old and his family is mobbed up. He put a hit on ONE guy everyone already wanted dead. He’s done nothing but good bean behavior in my eyes as an adult.
Jen gave him her blessing! Asher just wants to make her happy!
Incidentally, he’s got a thing for dark-haired hot messes with a penchant for drama and self-destruction, so it’s not like he’s straying that far away from this “We’ll See” :3c
Walky does drama like a sitcom character. Sal is more like–
She’d love to say “drama follows her around” instead, but Sal likes danger, one-liners, and Making An Impression. There’s a couple of good examples of this side of hers shining when Amazi-Girl is around but I’m sure there’s more.
THIS ASIDE THO. Jennifer authorized Asher to kiss a billion dudes!! He better include Walky in it!
wait wait no that’s the same kind of thinking that gave us “the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves that evolution is WRONG so CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!”
See… these things don’t happen in a vacuum. Asher kissing/not-kissing 1B other dudes is zero-sum for upsets, but only if we’re considering Jennifer. It’s ignoring how many of those 1B dudes might get upset with others of those 1B dudes because of Asher, up to… *counts on fingers*… 1B! upsets.
That’s a lot of upsets. A lot a lot. And logically, there’s only way to forestall that: those 1B dudes all have to make out with everyone else in those 1B dudes. Voila! Problem solved, drama kept to a minimum, everybody wins!
Yup! Asher can take this conversation and consider them broken up. Even more than last night they are broken up. Asher, get some self-respect and tell Billie/Jennifer you are done with her.
It’s less self respect issue and more him trying to be a good person. he needs someone to remind him that being a good person doesn’t equate to being treated good.
You know I just realized it’s kind of funny how Lucy is so critical of Sarah for being mean to her “so called friends”, but completely worships Billy who is way meaner to everybody
Yep. Raidah is popular and says Sarah is bad, Lucy immediately turns on Sarah. Billie is popular, and has Raidah’s seal of approval, so Lucy fawns over her even though she treats everyone like shit
Ouch, yes, this is exactly why Lucy is such a horrible person. A weak person who will turn on you in a second on someone else’s say-so. I never thought I would say this but Walky can do SOOO much better.
Lucy saw Sarah mortify and humiliate Joyce for the lolz, sharing Joyce’s masturbation habits to outsiders, and somehow Lucy is the horrible one for “turning on” Sarah?
Sarah is a fucking horrible person. If she didn’t want GOOD people turning against her, she should be displaying less horrible behaviour, and she should be exhibiting less pleasure on how much she hurts her so-called friends.
We saw Joyce mortified. Lucy saw Joyce mortified. Lucy reacted to Sarah tormenting Joyce as a good person would react. And for that she’s vilified because how DARE an ‘outsider’ criticize a abusive bully, this supposedly proves she would turn against anyone.
After the fact, after the event, Joyce seems to be fine with being mortified by Sarah, but how the fuck is Lucy supposed to know that in advance?
Lucy saw Jennifer physically abuse her boyfriend, start drama at the restaurant beforehand, and make derisive comments toward him multiple times. In Lucy’s defense, she has stood up against Jennifer. And probably because the situation with her is a lot more complex.
She might address it in private, though. She knows that Walky still does cherish his friendship with Jennifer, and that if she says something, Walky might choose her over Lucy. And if Lucy makes rifts with Jennifer, it can make her living situation really uncomfortable really quick.
For all her faults, Sarah pointed out a very uncomfortable truth and insecurity of Lucy’s. She’s not quite part of the group yet. Her biggest connection is through Walky.
It’s not limited to them, and sort of. I doubt there’s a person here who would dead-name someone, but in Ms.Billingsworth’s case, she doesn’t seem to have changed her name because of core gender identity issues. And while for most people I deeply respect their decision to identify however (gender or otherwise), Ms Billingsworth has (like someone in my personal experience) used it as a pretension and a cudgel to be verbally caustic to people around her.
So she’s treated like a joke. Because (see comic) she is.
On the topic of names, as Ms. Billingsworth is being such a muppet, and now is also quoting them, new lore is proposed: Billingsworth is Beaker’s last name, and this is the foundation of the Billingsworth’s modicum of wealth.
Ya while Sarah can take things too far. She already had that conversation with Joyce and the two have enough trust with eachother that Joyce can tell Sarah that she’s being a dick.
Was Sarah mean to Lucy? Yes, bit only after Lucy kept trying to aggro her. It was at least justified unlike everyone else who basically hates her for no reason
“Unnecessarily cruel”?! JENNIFER?! That’s ridiculous, @TrueVCU! As everyone knows, Jennifer is a great leader and ever-generous problem solver! She helps us ‘little people’ ALL THE TIME, as long as she doesn’t have to expend much effort doing it, and is effusively praised afterwards.
Any rumors you may have heard about her blowing up and embarking on binges of increasingly self-destructive behavior the moment her attempts to ‘help’ stop going the way she expects them to are surely not to be believed.
It’s all transactional. She projects that you’re only valuable to the extent that SHE values you. And that extent is determined by whatever she can get from you; ideally, status reinforcement. But she’s been selling-out for far longer than anyone’s been buying-in, apart from Sal and Walky; ergo, no one other than they would know that she’s a certified trash fire.
Check back in another ten years, when she’ll be restarting freshman year at a different school.
I feel like when she was going by Billie she was not THIS deep in the sauce, re: assuming literally everything was some kind of ploy or elaborate social chess.
Like even if the basic tendency was there, it’s gotten a lot worse.
Makes sense actually, because the difference is that she wasn’t friends with Raidah and her clique before. Now that she is, she’s paranoid and terrified of losing her new status, but ironically it’s this behavior that’s going to make her lose it- we’ve already seen Raidah react poorly to it
Now that’s she thinks she’s “friends” with the most manipulative social climbers and back-stabbers, she knows in her heart there is nothing real to stand on. All the nasty mess with Ruth was right out there in her face and it was real.
Billie has been, historically, willing to go to the wall for her friends, even if she was calling them a bunch of loser nerds while she was doing it. Jennifer I’m not so sure about.
Now her “friends” are “cool kids” who hate her — they flatter her to her face and stab her in the back when she’s gone. Unfortunately these might be the “friends” she deserves.
His relationship with Ethan, while off to an extremely unhealthy start, is still healthier than his relationship with Jennifer. But a relationship with a honey badger would also be healthier
Between Danny, Joe and… well, Asher is trying very hard, there are some very good boyfriends and one of them being too good for their current girlfriend.
Not outdated at all, though I’ve never seen the appeal myself. My reaction to girls kissing was always ‘Oh wow, two beautiful women who want nothing to do with me! Why is this attractive?’
Most easily accessible porn of two women having sex out there is aimed at straight men. They are the implied watcher. That’s not lesbian porn.
(Not saying you should be turned on by it; most of it turns most lesbians off).
My understanding is that the hopes of the intended audience is that once the two beautiful women have gotten each other all revved up both of them will want something more satisfying than fingers and that is where they, the Male Gaze POV, gets to step in and rail them BOTH, and rescue the poor lesbians from being all terribly turned on with no way to achieve a deep climax.
Which isn’t really how lesbians OR video as a medium works, but there you go: the power of wishful thinking, and fervently believing that all women [should] want your trouser snake being delusional!
The idea that a peen is inherently more satisfying that sex that does not involve the peen always has been and always will be the funniest thing. Whenever straight men allude to it I always laugh and it always pisses them off.
(Not implying that peenless sex is inherently better either or that all straight men hold that belief, but men that hold that belief do always get pissed by laughing)
also, penises and ballsacks are objectively funny. they can be hot too, but laughing at penises generally, and phallocentrism in particular, is very much the correct response
It sounds like you enjoy porn for different reasons than the target audience of the F/F porn in question. You want to envision yourself as participating. The target audience is more visual — they recognize they AREN’T participating and treat it as a show. And if they’re attracted to the feminine but not the masculine, including a masculine figure will, at best, add nothing to the experience, but including a second feminine figure…
There’s also an appeal for men who are disturbed or conflicted by seeing another man’s penis as part of their porn.
But generally, it seems to be common for both men and women to find same-sex couples (of a gender they’re attracted to) a turn on. Lesbian porn is mostly for straight men. Male/male slash fic is mostly by and for women (or gay romance novels or yaoi).
I’m not sure that the two are inherently different in motivation or that the women are doing the “let the guys get warmed up and then turn to me” thing.
Like I said, it’s common for both sides and nothing to shame. Though it’s probably better not to openly fetishize it about your friends, Lucy. Or Amber.
Ah. That probably explains why het hentai manga seem to rarely show the males… wait, no.
Het hentai manga tends to show the peens more than anything else of the males and focuses very much on the female orifices. That’s probably to allow reader immersion imagining themselves as the perps.
And in the censored versions, the peens are taken out one way or another. Hm, yes, maybe that still fits.
Though I bet there are differences depending on the medium.
Some straight dudes can be bothered by seeing other men and thus prefer scenes with just women, while others can prefer male/female scenes. Or prefer all woman scenes for different reasons.
I was proposing one possibility, not a general rule that covers all men.
I mean I like people kissing. Though usually that’s just in fiction. If a friend tells me they just frenched someone I’d be like “neat! I’m happy for you”
I guess it’s all based on context. Being excited for romance is fair enough. It’s just a bit off here cause Lucy’s not really close enough to be asking for details. At least not to me. But I guess it’s a gray area.
That was exactly my reaction, Lucy is not nearly close enough with Asher (as in, I’m pretty sure they’re not even friends outside of their connection to Billie and Raidah) to be jumping in for details like that.
Also, not romance. It’s Asher doing full disclosure with his S/O about someone making a move on him. Lucy’s doing romantic fantasies that ignore relationship realities again.
To be fair, Lucy just had this sort of energy whenever there’s kissing going on, gay, straight, whatever. I think this is less “Lucy is fetishizing homosexual relationships” and more “Lucy is an intense shipper and always wants all the deets”.
Not that its a whole lot better than way, but its a different sort of awkward :D.
Oh, well I was gonna give her the benefit of the doubt for sec there cause I thought Wraithy2773 made a good point but it is just a bit of fetishization. Oh, well I guess everyone has their cringe era.
I could well be wrong on Lucy’s “fetishization of LGBTQ relationships” versus “just generally being a shipper” stuff, but I’m going to keep that as an open possibility until she shows disdain for a straight ship :).
I admit, maybe this is cultural and y’all are like, from the Northern Hemisphere or something but here we’d be like. Yeah – A shipper, but also, she’d be just someone who likes a good gossip session? Which isn’t like “oooh, the bestest trait” but it’s… It’s pretty normal.
well they are both fandomy nerd girls u_u tragic!
maybe shes just being nosy and Jennifer is just assuming horny intent. or we’re about to experience a well meaning but awkward overcompenstating #ally moment.
Lucy was already making headcanons about Walky and Amber the very first time she met him when he came to Billie for advice. Shipping is just Lucy’s default state
Speaking of which, her behavior to me says
1) dry-drunk and
2) concussion
I act just like Jennilie is doing right now after I hit my head. Everything is a personal slight. I feel justified in acting outraged and defensive and vindictive about EVERYTHING. “Look at that bongo eating crackers” level chip on the shoulder. It’s a side effect of head trauma. The brain and body are coursing with cortisol and adrenaline to minimize inflammation and preemptively ward away any further touch or sound or contact that could inadvertently reinjure. It’s like being hungover. Hence the dry drunk / delayed withdrawal metaphor.
And, from what we’ve seen, Billifer / Jennillie has primarily been acting like this since Ruth slammed her head into the floor, with no evidence of a head tuck. And Billifer just stalked off and rejoined her group — no evidence she even iced her head or lay down in the dark for a bit. No wonder she’s firing on just one cylinder right now! She’s literally at her wit’s end! No rope left, so she “pounds the table” and pretends it was everyone else’s fault she hopped off the cliff with insufficient rope. When in doubt, throw a tantrum. It works for toddlers. And after head trauma, one sometimes feels like one has about the reasoning capacity of a toddler. Speaking from experience.
A true friend would hold her accountable for her actions, get her an ice pack and some sunglasses (maybe earplugs too) and walk her to the infirmary, tell them she needs a quiet place to rest.
Of course, that alerts the authorities to the fisticuffs between her and Ruth on Jennillie’s old hallway. But the whole situation is messed, messed, messed up, and Billifer needs both accountability and support right now. She’s clearly emotionally impaired, and clearly hurting. Badly.
I’ve had a really bad, like, years to recover and still dealing with some shit from it head injury. It’s… Hopefully not as bad but she needs to go the hospital.
Somehow I get the vibe from Jennifer that she would be the kind to ‘open a relationship’ if she wanted to suddenly kiss a boy/girl that she wanted, yet when her partner then goes ‘okay’ and started kissing other boys/girls, suddenly she throws a temper tantrum and says that it’s time to close it.
Shit. That’s just put a different spin on the abusive relationship my best friend got out of a few years back. Not exactly the same but the whole “these are the boundaries of our relationship, sorry it doesn’t suit you” suddenly became “what no these are the boundaries and you’re totally cheating on me! But also the boundaries that weren’t what you wanted before totally haven’t changed, even though the two conflict.” And- because red flags just look like flags through rose tinted glasses- my best friend went “oh… okay” and went along with it.
So in my example it’s more like if the person giving that vibe declared that their partner was cheating for kissing other people but it was okay if they did so. Not a one-to-one example, but what you said…
Well it hit home hard. Because that sure is a vibe I’ve had to process.
Isn’t that kind of the opposite of what’s happened here though?
Jennifer hasn’t suggested she be allowed to fool around with anyone else and she’s not getting mad at Asher for kissing Ethan.
Panel 3 Jennifer has a face that implies to me that she is quite bothered by this discovery. However, a mixture of internalized bi-phobia (Asher can’t like kissing guys, he’s dating me and I know he likes me. If he can date me but also enjoy guys, that means I can also like men and women and that would mean my relationship with Ruth was real and now it’s over and that upsets me!!!) and her…drama hurricane ness means this is being interpreted as a catty attempt to make her jealous, rather than reaching out for open communication.
The bit in parentheses is very good, finding out something is real that you didn’t think was real, especially an internal thing, is very difficult for a lot of people and I don’t recall Jennifer showing that she’s well equipped with the tools to process it well.
Right on. Jennifer likely interprets boy/boy kissing as “just some weird phase” or “curiosity”. Not “real”.
Notice she didn’t say, “Kiss a billion other PEOPLE.” Just “dudes”. From her perspective, kissing someone of the same sex is just attention seeking or misguided behavior. Just temporary.
1: Good on Asher for being straightforward here (jokes about “straight” aside). He laid things out as clearly as he could, because he wants to be an upright and honest guy. He’s making clear what he’s asking about as well. I can’t really think of anything I’d expect a decent person to do that he isn’t doing in this situation.
2: The important panel here is #3. I’m sure most will just skip to Panel 4, but its important that we see her *actual* reaction to the news, instead of the facade that she’s been hiding behind.
She’s surprised and a little hurt, but she’s not letting herself get involved with those emotions, so she’s scrambling back to some semblance of control. Regardless, though, that asshole persona does seem to be an affect, and its doing little right now but poisoning all of her relationships.
I don’t find Lucy adorable at all. She’s fetishizing asher’s bisexuality, sticking her nose into personal relationships that are absolutely none of her business because she has not friends with Billie and absolutely not friends with asher, and she’s a complete hypocrite for how she has criticized Sarah for being mean to her so-called friends yet continues to worship Billie who is way meaner to everybody
Lucy is more gross and more inappropriate than any other 18 year old in this strip. Sure, Amber is having a similar reaction to thinking about Asher kissing Ethan, but Lucy is not even friends with these people whose conversation she is hijacking and has turned it up to 20.
18 on the outside, a bit younger on the inside, I think.
Take a look at an average crop of college freshmen. Some of them are children; some are adults; some, well, it’s hard to say — they’re all over the place.
I’m honestly not reading Lucy as fetishizing Asher’s bisexuality. That might well be a thing, but she honestly just seems more squeeing in terms of relationships and kissing in general.
Its more primo shipper energy than anything. I haven’t seen her do anything to promote gay/lesbian relationships over straight ones or anything, she just seems hyped up at people kissing.
As for the hypocrite stuff… she’s seen more of Billie/Jennifer than she has of Sarah, and ~100% of the stuff she’s seen of Sarah has been negative, while she’s also seen some of Billie/Jennifer’s softer bits. Its not hypocrisy, it’s just an entirely different situation, altogether.
I lost track of whose second point you’re agreeing with, but I’m hearing a lot of Asher and Ethan should make out, and Lucy is a terrible person for wanting the same thing.
There’s a difference between people saying it about fictional characters and Lucy saying it to the face of the person she’s objectifying–while he’s trying to talk about it to his girlfriend.
I’m agreeing that Jennifer is definitely putting up a front to pretend the knowledge that her boyfriend had kissed someone else (even though he didn’t start the kiss) isn’t totally upsetting for multiple reasons. The Lucy stuff, I’m steering pretty far away from right now.
You know, Jennifer, they say you have to love yourself before anyone can love you.
[Jennifer spends 10 minutes talking about how great she is and going “how could I not love myself?” while avoiding commenting on how she feels towards herself.]
Well, here’s Jennifer destroying all her personal relationships because she can’t stand the nerdy earnest person she is and thinks becoming a cool and popular icon of the social elite instead would be possible and healthy and her frustration because it keeps not happening makes her very unpleasant for everyone to be around.
I’m bored by that saying so much. It’s treated like magic: just flip that switch and your life will be great, you don’t need anyone. [Plays “I am a Rock” on dusty cassette Walkman]
Some people would be better off if they could let go of enough self-disgust to stop obscuring their better qualities. But without advice as to how, this platitude is just a variant of “go in peace, be warm and well fed.”
Well that advice would depend on the specific kind of self-hate a person is dealing with. My advice for Jennifer would be to take therapy seriously. To acknowledge that she’s not well, that she’s troubled by any kind of self-hate at all, that seeing an outsider’s perspective on what’s going on in her life could have value to her, would be a starting point.
Hence my thought that being told the problem she’s not acknowledging (being unreasonably horrible to everyone and making them hate her) is a firmly established cliché (not allowing anyone to like you because you don’t like yourself) might make her think for a moment. (And also be super defensive about it.)
I had been married to my husband for two years after dating him for five before I learned to love myself, and I wouldn’t have been able to get to that point without his support.
That saying is as toxic as Jennifer is being rn lol, though I know you certainly didn’t mean it like that.
I honestly don’t know how Jennifer is gonna grow out of this awfulness. Like, I know Asher is a murderer by giving the order, but it’s just so much less actively aggravating than Jennifer (and Lucy tbh) that I’m like “You don’t really deserve better but you kind of deserve better my man.”
Like, it’s the “Character A is annoying to the reader (being specifically me)” vs “Character B is a bad person but enjoyable to read” dilemma is what I mean
No I probably didn’t mean it like that. To me it’s just a practical problem. How do you find someone to marry you if no human being can stand being near you and your self-hate in the first place? Jennifer seems to be doing worse than I did at her age, and now I’ve lived alone for 21 years. Plenty of time to figure out how to live with myself, only at this age it’s almost impossible to ever meet people to enjoy being healthy with.
Of course, with Jennifer’s kind of money she might just stay in college where people are forced to socialize with her one class at a time until they graduate and never stay in touch with her and she’s 80. She’ll be UI’s Pierce Hawthorne.
People who feel unable to love themselves are all different. Most of them are in fact perfectly lovable.
For example, maybe they’ve got depression or trauma or something in the way of knowing quite how to love themselves right now — and anyone can get depression or trauma, so that could be any kind of person.
The practical way to meet a potential spouse when you don’t love yourself is pretty much the same way as for people who do love themselves. (Make your life as excellent as possible for yourself, while asking out other people who may want to ride that ride with you — and if they don’t, hey, at least you’ve gone and designed a good life for yourself anyway, that’s great and you’ll be fine whether you find a copilot or not.)
Also the added step of unearthing and examining any relationship-kiling beliefs lurking in your head. (Jennifer’s: “only a broken, messed-up person could possibly love me. Toxicity is exciting and romantic. Drama Hurricane forever.”) Even beliefs like that don’t make you unlovable — Ruth definitely loves Jennifer — but toxic beliefs will cause you no end of troubles, so if you’ve been struck by the not-loving-yourself lightning, a good shrink is pretty much a must.
Asher keeps coming off as a reasonable dude. He’s making it really difficult to keep not trusting him…But I still don’t. Someone’s gotta hold the line till that shoe drops.
Great punchline, honestly. The fujoshi is strong with this one.
As for Jennifer, the thing is, I can see why she’d assume this was a ploy given how out of fucking nowhere it’d seem to her, and what with the last time she saw him, yeah, he was indeed trying too hard. Of course, she’s an idiot and wrong, but I’m trying to be fair to her for her obviously not having the context that we have.
Naturally, though, she’d be given more of this context if she asked any follow-up questions, so I am not letting her off the hook entirely for being a jerk about this.
The two need to break up. I am not saying that to crap on Jennifer, who I do still like, but it’s clear they have reached their expiration date as a couple.
Okay, honest question, what do you actually LIKE about Jennifer? To me, she’s pretty close to the second worst student character in the cast (Behind Mary, obviously.)
She had some good moments (even post-timeskip) but I think the last few storylines have just veered her more and more into ‘I want to see less of this character now.’
Now to be fair, she’s not the only character to go through this phase – Joyce was like that for a while for me.
Personally I enjoy Jennifer as a character. She had so much character growth, but then she slid back into her old patterns after the timeskip. To me it feels like there are some interesting directions her character arc could go in.
There plenty of cast members that I wouldn’t want to be friends with, but I enjoy reading about them. The only character I really disliked was Mike, because he was so one-dimensional and it seemed like there was no way for him to change or do anything beyond mean-spirited gags.
She tries extremely hard to be useful. That’s typical of folks who never got parental validation. That “I don’t need anyone to tell me how great I am, I’ll HELP EVERYONE and PROVE to EVERYONE how much they need me! I’ll SHOW THEM how great I am!” Selfishly selfless. Self-aggrandizing altruism.
…But, for all its misguided motivations, she does TRY hard to be a rock that her friends can rely on and look up to. That’s the “highest self” she aspires to be, whether she succeeds or not.
I like that she’s horrible. It makes her entertaining, and it’s more important that a character be entertaining than likeable, because it makes me enjoy reading about them more.
Not that being entertaining and likeable are mutually exclusive, mind you, but it’s nice to have some variety.
All of the conversations so far is understandably about Billie what I want to point out what a hypocrite Lucy is for criticizing Sarah for being mean to her “so-called friends” while worshipping Billie who is much more mean than Sarah.
How is Jennifer Lucy’s friend? I don’t recall her being nice to her once. I also don’t recall Sarah being at all mean to Lucy before Lucy started being openly hostile towards her and accusing her of not caring about Joyce and her other friends
In regards to Lucy being ok with Jennifer’s behavior in comparison to Sarah’s, you’re absolutely right that Jennifer is just as mean if not meaner.
Jennifer has also ditched friends in the past, if only Walky, which is not what Sarah did, but is what Raidah, Jennifer, and that guy who suddenly appeared at breakfast out of nowhere implied.
As for one nice thing Jennifer did for Lucy, she supported her in her liking Walky.
As for one mean thing Sarah said to Lucy before Lucy was hostile (which isn’t even Lucy’s complaint as she never made it about their interactions in the first place), she said they were doing the walk of shame and then claimed that when they do eventually have sex, it will be awkward and over quickly.
Neither example is for Jennifer being nice to her or Sarah being mean to her is a big deal, but I mentioned them to be fair.
I agree with everything you said. Also the big difference to me and why I find it especially obnoxious that Lucy forgives Jennifer’s meanness but not Sarah’s, is that Sarah’s meanness is never intended to hurt (with the exception of when she tells Lucy off), teasing is her way of connecting with people. While it isn’t the best way to relate to people and can be hurtful to people regardless of the intentions, Sarah’s heart is good. And when Sarah realizes she may have gone too far with the teasing , she apologizes.
Jennifer, on the other hand, is mean on purpose. It’s not teasing, it’s just meanness. And sure Jennifer isn’t always mean, but at her best she’s aloof and condescending, about the closest she gets to being nice is to help out her poor nerd friends out of pity well reminding everyone how great a person she is for using her powers of “emotional intelligence” to help nerds.
But Lucy blindly worships popular people, so when Raidah puts a bug in her ear she turns against Sarah in an instant, but would never criticize popular Billie for behaving similarly or worse
She also wants to be popular and she actively tries to think of ways to become so (though that may just be how she approaches life in general).
Remember that when Jennifer moved in, Lucy was the most popular person in their section of the hall.
She held movie nights and people came to her for advice.
Then Jennifer showed up and no one cared what Lucy thought.
So Lucy went to Jennifer’s old dorm the very next day and tried to find a way to weaponize Jennifer’s popularity to lead others to her movie night.
In a similar vein, not only did she dress Walky for his comic interview, but she coached it in regards to throwing Joyce off her game, and then when Joyce skipped class, thereby throwing them off their own game, Lucy said something along the lines of Joyce being more formidable than she thought.
Long story long, she’s not cutthroat with it, and I want to give credit where credit is due as she does seem genuinely nice with a desire to help people, but Lucy does at least strategize around people and even tries to manipulate/manage them in regards to getting what she wants.
Lucy really bugs me. And I think you helped me pinpoint why. She reminds me of a particular type of fake person I knew in high school and college. The type of person who is nice to everybody, but it’s a very superficial nice without any substance underneath because all they want is to be liked by everybody and they don’t actually care about being friends with YOU specifically, they just want friends and the more the better. Their intentions are good but you’re basically just a number to them when they tally how many friends they have. And then you can’t even tell anyone you don’t like them because they’re so damn nice that you just end up looking like the asshole
On the other hand, I think she’s calling out Sarah not only because the popular people said something, but because she thinks Sarah is wrong for this behavior; the popular people just pointed out the behavior for her or at least gave her the courage to speak up.
As a people pleaser, she could easily not say anything, but she stands out to say something to Sarah who is older, meaner, and bigger than her.
Not only that, but she does so in response to Sarah teasing Joyce, not Sarah teasing her (though she does, or at least did, think Joyce was a white bisexual version of her).
She also did it in front of Joyce (who’s likely to defend Sarah), Walky (who already didn’t buy into the “Sarah is the worst” spiel from team Raidah), and Sal (who probably doesn’t care or at least tends to mind her business).
She didn’t do it in front of people she knows she’d get approval from.
On the Other other hand, Lucy is the type who has ideal situations and not only tries to make said situations happen, but can be so locked in to how she thinks it SHOULD be that she has trouble seeing things from another perspective.
That’s why she has blinders on regarding popular people.
That’s why she hemmed up Danny over his third-date-denial because that was her ideal situation to lose her virginity with Walky, even though she never needed that situation (and she’s not thinking about the fact that she’s never even kissed him so why is she worried about sex).
In her mind, friends don’t act this way, so Sarah’s friendship behavior is wrong, and now popular people also think it’s wrong so it’s ok to say something.
But I think Lucy believes that if Sarah was suddenly being friends the right way, she would have no more issue with it and think she simply helped set her straight (like you said, her intentions are good).
Compare that to Raidah who doesn’t give a damn if Sarah is friends in a right or wrong way and simply hates Sarah’s guts (which, to be fair, Sarah also hates her guts).
That’s true, but while her standing up to Sarah in front of Joyce and Walky doesn’t exactly fit people pleasing behavior, I think she expected Joyce and Walky to agree with her once she pointed out that Sarah was mean and I think she was quite surprised when they didn’t. Like you said, she has very firm and often unrealistic expectations of how friendship and social situations are supposed to work. I think she thought that she was standing up for Joyce, and everyone other than Sarah would appreciate her for this, because it’s so obvious to her that Sarah is being a bad friend and she is being a good friend, she’s totally thrown off when they defend Sarah and don’t thank her for standing up to her. So while it’s not entirely people pleasing it’s not really anti people pleasing either
Oh, gosh. Maybe Lucy kind of *is* Billie in that sense. They both really value popularity, they’re both kind of hung up on high school in their own ways.
She’s NEVER been nice. Any nicety has been incidental.
But remember they live together, and beyond any social climbing (or not!) Lucy really dreams of that “roomie and I are best friends” experience – Though I suspect she knows in her heart of hearts it’s more about trying to keep things pleasant than Jennifer putting any work into them having a decent relationship, so. Willing self-delusion?
Lucy might be getting setup for a fall honestly. Like she’s really excited that she’s gotten in with the “popular” group not realizing that they’re jerks using her to destroy their rivals. Jen’s kind of a victim here too, backsliding into her bad habits from highschool just from hanging out with them.
Jennifer is only Lucy’s friend in Lucy’s mind. The bulk of their conversations have been Jennifer pushing her away but Lucy staying to get a whiff of that sweet sweet popularity. With Jennifer maaaybe doing one or two nice things for her while Lucy keeps forgiving her, forgiveness that I don’t remember Jennifer having asked.
Its not that Billie/Jennifer has ever been particularly nice to Lucy. Its more that Lucy’s seen more sides of Billie/Jennifer than her asshole facade. She’s seen her be legitimately romantic and awkward and even a fangirl.
Sure, Billie/Jennifer has been routinely a jerk and/or asshole to Lucy, but she’s also been a *person* overall.
Meanwhile, Sarah’s just been an asshole. Lucy hasn’t spent enough time around Sarah to see any other sides to her, really. Its more about the amount of time the characters have been around each other, and how much Lucy has seen of them.
Yeah, I’d really add this to my “it’s complicated” from earlier in this thread.
Sarah is still more of a Concept than a Person for Lucy – And Sarah tried very hard to stay one for Joyce at the beginning, even, except Joyce got past her defenses, got to know her, and got to love her.
… Her Concept is “being an Asshole” with +10 in Sarcasm. All things considered, Lucy has no reason to try and go deeper with her.
Lol, actually Jennifer has made it double triple clear she is not friendly with Lucy, they are not friends, and she would like Lucy to never talk to her again ever. Sarah’s just blunt and forthright with everyone, Billie has decided that Lucy is “not cool.”
I think the more interesting aspect would be that it would be a specific person that Billie/Jennifer could approach/attack/interrogate/do-other-things–at, as opposed to a general “a guy” that can’t be approached directly.
Likely not the first to say this but Jennifer’s giving off strong Julie Powers energy. *Scott Pilgrim book spoilers incoming*
And given that Julie’s boyfriend Stephen broke up with her upon realizing he’s gay and deserved better than the toxic relationship they were in I can hope Asher just cuts things off with Jennifer already.
Oh I’m glad you specified Scott Pilgrim – I was briefly wracking my brain about what Jennifer possibly had in common with Julie Powers of Marvel’s Power Pack.
It’s weird seeing Asher, the guy who essentially had a guy, a terrible example of a human being but still a person, killed, be the moral compass of this relationship.
So when Asher and Jennifer eventually break up for good, how long before Raidah runs the numbers and decides that she’s keeping Asher and getting rid of Jennifer?
And how hard a fall will that be for Jennifer to realize her new friends were never her friends?
Well Asher was in the clique first to begin with, and Raidah has already shown contempt for Billie’s rude behavior towards Walky as well as for Billie’s interests (Kit Fisto). It seems clear to me that she doesn’t like Billie at all and will drop her in a second when Asher stops dating her.
Then again, as a social climber, it’s all about the numbers, so who knows
Hmmm, how “traditional values” is Raidha’s church? If Ethan and Asher start dating will she welcome Ethan because he is handsome or violently reject him (and Asher” because he had nerdy interests, is Jewish, and is gay? Are Ethan’s parents useful to her in some way?
Oh funny, I figured that Asher would get points for the gay relationship because it’s so progressive and diversity and blah blah blah. But she is religious so maybe not
Raidah extolled Jacob’s brother for his work regarding Carla’s lawsuit, so it seems that she at least gives lip service to seemingly more progressive ideas.
So while it’s easy to see her being anti nerd, I doubt she’s going to come out antisemitic or anti gay.
Yeah, Raidah’s Muslim. That said, she was lauding Jacob’s brother for his work striking down transphobic laws. I know you can at least nominally support trans people and not gay people, but I don’t think we have evidence of that with Raidah.
Actually, Asher didn’t show up as part of the clique until after Jennifer did, with the implication being that he is basically her ‘plus one’ to the group dynamic. Otherwise, we have no clue how Raidah and Asher would be previously acquainted.
No, you might be right.
Asher isn’t there in the flashback, just Carl and Char (or was it Chan?) so Asher might be the newest member.
I’ve been misremembering for the longest time.
(Also, it’s been my own personal head canon that Raidah’s dad’s law firm defends Asher’s granddad’s Korean mafia, so I figure they know each other from before college).
Depends. Is Raidah just social climbing with Jennifer or is she actually working some more nefarious scheme aimed at Sarah and Joyce? Because Asher would be useless for that.
And probably less useful for the social climbing than Jennifer is anyway, unless aspires to become a mob lawyer.
At this point I think Jennifer’s nothing but a complete roadblock to Asher’s attempts to be a better person (Which I do think are genuine). He should REALLY pull a Ruth and get the heck outta there.
I didn’t expect Lucy to have Amber’s kind of annoying “gay men kissing is my business” shtick. It tires me.
Anyways, deep down, Jennifer wants Asher to be bad for her. “Why?” probably has. What. Ten different answers? She wants to prove she needs Ruth to fix her. She wants the toxicity she thinks she deserves. She wants excuses to dump Asher because he’s not making her feel far enough from the Old Billie–if she’s dating a guy who reminds her of Walky, it means she hasn’t really advanced at all, and she’s still awful and pathetic. etc. etc.
There’s something about panel 4 Jennifer that’s so weirdly Malaya-esque. The insistence she doesn’t care, the assumption that the other person is lying, the sheer “How does your brain work???” convolution…
The difference, of course, is that we have panel 3, so this is much more a persona than the genuine “…what?” Malaya provides, but still.
I don’t mind the reverse chara arc, at least she’s not so lost in another person she’s willing to die for them. but it would be good if she cared more about asher, otherwise she should just break up and move on/stick to one night stands/hookups as opposed to expecting him to behave how she wants
well, we don’t know how many times he did that before
at least the target was deserved and he wasn’t going on some serial killer spree of ‘innocent targets’ and having his family connections clean up the bodies
I don’t think he enjoyed doing that, it just had to be done after Blaine threatened him and then used the resulting leverage to hurt innocent people. He’s trying to be better but he still gets dragged back into the mob shit sometimes.
I do not buy for one second that Asher and the mobbed up cops executed Blaine, a money launderer who had records of which cops were on the take and evidence that Asher stole from his mob-boss Grandfather, because Blaine was dangerous to other people.
i’m sure a ver of jen would be jealous if he tried to hide it from her. She seems unphased by it being a boy tho so maybe she’s dated bi guys before (then again she’s also been with girls so it shouldn’t matter but i’ve totally known some drama queens that’d be hypocrtical/biphobic about that)
Well, asher’s still young and not set in his ways (not that a 50 year old who was a piece of shit couldn’t improve but i imagine less ppl would give him a second chance versus starting over)
I refuse to accept the fact that Jennifer is that clueless, this seems like a deliberate attempt to create a breakup while making it look like it’s his fault and not her’s
Surely she could break up with him over kissing someone else? That’s hardly her fault. I think she wants to punish him for acting uncool by being angry for an unspecified period, but then pick up where they left off when she’s cooled down.
I’m referring to how Sarah was scrutinized for “butting into” Walky and Lucy’s plan to point out how bad an idea it was, but Lucy is eagerly butting into Jennifer and Asher’s relationship issues because of cringe yaoi shipping.
If she’d just wanted in on the wacky hijinks I think it would have been better received. The specific issue is that she was very critical and offering unsolicited advice to dump Walky.
A billion dudes is an awful lot of dudes. Seems like it’d be difficult to even get around to kissing a million dudes. Asher has his work cut out for him.
I remember there was one celebrity (can’t remember if it was a sports star or rock star?) who claimed to have slept with 40,000 women in his lifetime. Somebody crunched the numbers and said that, in order for that claim to be true, the dude would have had to be sleeping with 2.5 different women every single day since he was FOURTEEN. So he was clearly lying his ass off. 😛
While not quite to those lofty figures, King Charles II was said to have slept with approximately 15000-18000 women from when he was 19 til his death at 69 (nice), which meant at least four different women a week. And he had a special sex chair that let him have sex with two women at the same time.
Is Jennifer what happens when your own parents are absent, and the best you get is the Walkertons as surrogate parents on the weekends? Or is the twist really that she had everything she needed, there is no plot reason for her to be like this, this is just her and she’s actively destroying everything she’s ever had.
Jennifer makes me feel the same way Asuka Langely Soryu makes me feel: Deep compassionate pity at what has been done to them and what they’ve been forced to become, and a need for powered armor before I deal with them myself.
Panel 3 Jennifer: God that is so hot I can’t tell him that!
Panel 5 Lucy: God that is so hot I want him to tell more!
Off-panel Amber: *already working on the fanfic
Frigging hell, Billie, is there any relationship you WON’T torpedo somehow?!? I mean, really. You actually were doing a good job with Asher. Maybe you were being a dick to old friends like Walky, but that’s actually nothing new. You had a GOOD THING with Asher and you’re ruining it because you noticed some nerd-like tendencies with him that reminded him of Walky and he’s tripping over himself trying to please you and you are just RUINING it.
I know, she has redeeming characteristics at times. I know, she is going through some ish. I know, she has a whole fetish about being pissy and antagonizing her partners. I know, she’s just a character and it’s awesome to see because you need negative characters in a story because they exist in real life… But it’s all such toxic stuff that make me dislike her so, so much.
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Asher ’bout to take her up on that dare tho
I am now all-in on Ethan & Asher, purely to spite Jennifer for this absolute nonsense reaction to an attempt at open communication.
Same. He may be making himself better, but I think in the process he’s become *too good for her.*
The way she’s been behaving makes that a low bar my dude.
she put the bar for “better than her” on the ground. and then she grabbed a shovel
Beautifully put, icon twin ♥
I am just disgusted with Ken at this point, really.
Ken? This is Asher. Asher is the one doing everything!
He’s just Ken.
It would have been really funny if Asher’s narrative role of angsty bad boy had been played by Ken of all characters.
I get the spite justification, but seriously, everything up to now makes it clear that Ashan is a bad, bad idea. Ethan right now is in the same boat as Amber, really–not fit enough himself to be in a relationship with someone else. The bit where he tried to bargain his way into Asher’s bed after being given a firm “no” was a whole torrent of red flags. I don’t even care about Asher very much, and I still think he deserves better. (And ‘better’, in my book, would include most of the minor dude characters we’ve seen, including Finger-Guns.)
We were worrying about Asher hurting others but it’s turning out that everyone’s just pulling him into their own personal drama.
…with maybe a bit of emotional masochism on Ethan’s side, yikes
Asher: I am making a new life here in college!
*gets pulled into Rainah’s crap
*gets pulled into Jennifer’s crap
*gets pulled into Ethan’s crap
I still do not get the Asher hate. The guy was like 13 years old and his family is mobbed up. He put a hit on ONE guy everyone already wanted dead. He’s done nothing but good bean behavior in my eyes as an adult.
bc he called the cops on Sal
sure, Sal forgave him, but a bunch of others wouldn’t
Are Ethan’s flags really any redder than Jennifer in panel #1 here, where before Asher says a single word, she leads with verbal abuse?
She’s even dressed in red. Visually speaking, her whole being is a red flag.
We’re going with “Ashan” when “Ether” is right there?
“Ashan” sounds like a place Elric levelled one day when he was moody.
none of them play roleplaying games as far as we currently know. so Ashan it stands.
I’ve been calling them Dark Moon Knight.
I was cheering for “Ether” too TwT
Jen gave him her blessing! Asher just wants to make her happy!
Incidentally, he’s got a thing for dark-haired hot messes with a penchant for drama and self-destruction, so it’s not like he’s straying that far away from this “We’ll See” :3c
I do not agree that Sal has a penchant for drama.
Walky does though. :|a
Walky does drama like a sitcom character. Sal is more like–
She’d love to say “drama follows her around” instead, but Sal likes danger, one-liners, and Making An Impression. There’s a couple of good examples of this side of hers shining when Amazi-Girl is around but I’m sure there’s more.
THIS ASIDE THO. Jennifer authorized Asher to kiss a billion dudes!! He better include Walky in it!
Let’s be real. She’s going to get all upset at him if he takes her up on that.
But she’s also going to be upset at him no matter what he does.
“may as well, then”
wait wait no that’s the same kind of thinking that gave us “the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves that evolution is WRONG so CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!”
See… these things don’t happen in a vacuum. Asher kissing/not-kissing 1B other dudes is zero-sum for upsets, but only if we’re considering Jennifer. It’s ignoring how many of those 1B dudes might get upset with others of those 1B dudes because of Asher, up to… *counts on fingers*… 1B! upsets.
That’s a lot of upsets. A lot a lot. And logically, there’s only way to forestall that: those 1B dudes all have to make out with everyone else in those 1B dudes. Voila! Problem solved, drama kept to a minimum, everybody wins!
(only if we’re only considering Jennifer, but y’all knew that’s what was meant)
Okay you heard the lady! Go kiss that man! (please)
A billion dudes sounds like a pretty fun goal/record, i wonder if there is a world record for that
You an set a world record for whatever you want if you pay them.
If you started when you were born and lived to 100, you’d have just over 3 seconds for each kiss.
Oh right, this semester has Jennifer having her dumbing of age and burning it all down
Are you implying that Jennifer burning her life down is a thing exclusive to this semester?
Point
Pretty sure Jennifer’s been burning it down since highschool
sometimes i feel like Billie’s not a very nice person or something, y’know?
🤔
Yup! Asher can take this conversation and consider them broken up. Even more than last night they are broken up. Asher, get some self-respect and tell Billie/Jennifer you are done with her.
If he does, I bet she’ll just angrily tell him they’re not.
Or say, “Fine! I don’t care! I never liked you anyway!”
It’s less self respect issue and more him trying to be a good person. he needs someone to remind him that being a good person doesn’t equate to being treated good.
Ok cool, but does Billifer of all people get to be the arbiter of just which level of Purgatory he rates?
The way Jennifer is so unnecessarily cruel to people makes me wonder why anyone keeps her around
You know I just realized it’s kind of funny how Lucy is so critical of Sarah for being mean to her “so called friends”, but completely worships Billy who is way meaner to everybody
Billifer is ‘popular’. This is the only criteria Lucy has for how good a person is, so Billifer wins, and Sarah is on the outs.
Yep. Raidah is popular and says Sarah is bad, Lucy immediately turns on Sarah. Billie is popular, and has Raidah’s seal of approval, so Lucy fawns over her even though she treats everyone like shit
Ouch, yes, this is exactly why Lucy is such a horrible person. A weak person who will turn on you in a second on someone else’s say-so. I never thought I would say this but Walky can do SOOO much better.
And has. Twice.
I mean, debatable that. Neither dotty or Amber are what I would call “good” relationship wise.
Sadly. She is a marginalized weirdo who wants to belong and will throw other people under the bus not to be the one who gets ostracized.
Huh.. So Walky’s dating his dad.
I can’t unsee this oh noooooooooo
Ah my gawd too real
Lucy saw Sarah mortify and humiliate Joyce for the lolz, sharing Joyce’s masturbation habits to outsiders, and somehow Lucy is the horrible one for “turning on” Sarah?
Sarah is a fucking horrible person. If she didn’t want GOOD people turning against her, she should be displaying less horrible behaviour, and she should be exhibiting less pleasure on how much she hurts her so-called friends.
Dude, she asked Joyce if she’d gone too far and upset her and while Joyce didn’t say no, she didn’t seem all that upset when Sarah asked either.
We saw Joyce mortified. Lucy saw Joyce mortified. Lucy reacted to Sarah tormenting Joyce as a good person would react. And for that she’s vilified because how DARE an ‘outsider’ criticize a abusive bully, this supposedly proves she would turn against anyone.
After the fact, after the event, Joyce seems to be fine with being mortified by Sarah, but how the fuck is Lucy supposed to know that in advance?
Lucy saw Jennifer physically abuse her boyfriend, start drama at the restaurant beforehand, and make derisive comments toward him multiple times. In Lucy’s defense, she has stood up against Jennifer. And probably because the situation with her is a lot more complex.
She might address it in private, though. She knows that Walky still does cherish his friendship with Jennifer, and that if she says something, Walky might choose her over Lucy. And if Lucy makes rifts with Jennifer, it can make her living situation really uncomfortable really quick.
For all her faults, Sarah pointed out a very uncomfortable truth and insecurity of Lucy’s. She’s not quite part of the group yet. Her biggest connection is through Walky.
Just curious @Freemage, is Billifer supposed to be a put down or are you simply too lazy to right Billie/Jennifer?
Did she fall over?
It’s not limited to them, and sort of. I doubt there’s a person here who would dead-name someone, but in Ms.Billingsworth’s case, she doesn’t seem to have changed her name because of core gender identity issues. And while for most people I deeply respect their decision to identify however (gender or otherwise), Ms Billingsworth has (like someone in my personal experience) used it as a pretension and a cudgel to be verbally caustic to people around her.
So she’s treated like a joke. Because (see comic) she is.
On the topic of names, as Ms. Billingsworth is being such a muppet, and now is also quoting them, new lore is proposed: Billingsworth is Beaker’s last name, and this is the foundation of the Billingsworth’s modicum of wealth.
+1 mil
Ya while Sarah can take things too far. She already had that conversation with Joyce and the two have enough trust with eachother that Joyce can tell Sarah that she’s being a dick.
Was Sarah mean to Lucy? Yes, bit only after Lucy kept trying to aggro her. It was at least justified unlike everyone else who basically hates her for no reason
“Unnecessarily cruel”?! JENNIFER?! That’s ridiculous, @TrueVCU! As everyone knows, Jennifer is a great leader and ever-generous problem solver! She helps us ‘little people’ ALL THE TIME, as long as she doesn’t have to expend much effort doing it, and is effusively praised afterwards.
Any rumors you may have heard about her blowing up and embarking on binges of increasingly self-destructive behavior the moment her attempts to ‘help’ stop going the way she expects them to are surely not to be believed.
It’s all transactional. She projects that you’re only valuable to the extent that SHE values you. And that extent is determined by whatever she can get from you; ideally, status reinforcement. But she’s been selling-out for far longer than anyone’s been buying-in, apart from Sal and Walky; ergo, no one other than they would know that she’s a certified trash fire.
Check back in another ten years, when she’ll be restarting freshman year at a different school.
I want Billie back. Jennifer’s a jerk.
And Billie wasn’t? She’s always been awful
I feel like when she was going by Billie she was not THIS deep in the sauce, re: assuming literally everything was some kind of ploy or elaborate social chess.
Like even if the basic tendency was there, it’s gotten a lot worse.
Makes sense actually, because the difference is that she wasn’t friends with Raidah and her clique before. Now that she is, she’s paranoid and terrified of losing her new status, but ironically it’s this behavior that’s going to make her lose it- we’ve already seen Raidah react poorly to it
Now that’s she thinks she’s “friends” with the most manipulative social climbers and back-stabbers, she knows in her heart there is nothing real to stand on. All the nasty mess with Ruth was right out there in her face and it was real.
She’s taking the shallow high school drama to it’s terrible conclusion.
Billie has been, historically, willing to go to the wall for her friends, even if she was calling them a bunch of loser nerds while she was doing it. Jennifer I’m not so sure about.
Now her “friends” are “cool kids” who hate her — they flatter her to her face and stab her in the back when she’s gone. Unfortunately these might be the “friends” she deserves.
considering how Walky took her antics before? Billie WAS the cool kid who flattered people and stabbed them in the back in HS.
She wasn’t that great either.
Billie was also a bit of a jerk
To quote that one meme from The Office: It’s the same picture.
Jennifer is a mature responsible adult. This is Billiesliding.
I mean, she might be, but Billie wasn’t much better. She just had more slivers of positive screentime because she was nice to depressed Ruth.
She was still generally awful almost the entire rest of the time with a selective few good moments.
Jennifer isn’t drinking. I’m still calling it an improvement.
Is Jennifer only happy when she’s sabotaging her relationships? How is Asher the only one in this scenario who’s trying to do the right thing?
Pretty sure she is zero percent happy, anymore.
Jennifer was her attempt to get right with Willis/God.
Billie came back when Walky ruined her illusion that she was mature.
That’s her secret, Cap…
His relationship with Ethan, while off to an extremely unhealthy start, is still healthier than his relationship with Jennifer. But a relationship with a honey badger would also be healthier
*plays Donna Allen’s “Serious” on the hacked Muzak*
sooooo we still getting side piece ethan arc then???
Between Danny, Joe and… well, Asher is trying very hard, there are some very good boyfriends and one of them being too good for their current girlfriend.
I’m kinda iffy on this gay fetishization thing from Lucy. Like where did this come from? Kinda expect that from Amber.
An outdated stereotype that straight women want to see guys kiss, and vice versa for straight men.
Is it outdated? Definitely think that’s a thing which happens
Definitely not outdated.
It’s not universal either. To me it fits Lucy better to be excited about a possible romance.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.
Not outdated at all, though I’ve never seen the appeal myself. My reaction to girls kissing was always ‘Oh wow, two beautiful women who want nothing to do with me! Why is this attractive?’
Right? This is why I don’t look at lesbian porn. There’s no conceptual place in there for me.
Most easily accessible porn of two women having sex out there is aimed at straight men. They are the implied watcher. That’s not lesbian porn.
(Not saying you should be turned on by it; most of it turns most lesbians off).
My understanding is that the hopes of the intended audience is that once the two beautiful women have gotten each other all revved up both of them will want something more satisfying than fingers and that is where they, the Male Gaze POV, gets to step in and rail them BOTH, and rescue the poor lesbians from being all terribly turned on with no way to achieve a deep climax.
Which isn’t really how lesbians OR video as a medium works, but there you go: the power of
wishful thinking, and fervently believing that all women [should] want your trouser snakebeing delusional!The idea that a peen is inherently more satisfying that sex that does not involve the peen always has been and always will be the funniest thing. Whenever straight men allude to it I always laugh and it always pisses them off.
(Not implying that peenless sex is inherently better either or that all straight men hold that belief, but men that hold that belief do always get pissed by laughing)
also, penises and ballsacks are objectively funny. they can be hot too, but laughing at penises generally, and phallocentrism in particular, is very much the correct response
Agreed. It’s voyeuristic which is fine but it’s very rarely lesbian.
Can confirm.
It sounds like you enjoy porn for different reasons than the target audience of the F/F porn in question. You want to envision yourself as participating. The target audience is more visual — they recognize they AREN’T participating and treat it as a show. And if they’re attracted to the feminine but not the masculine, including a masculine figure will, at best, add nothing to the experience, but including a second feminine figure…
There’s also an appeal for men who are disturbed or conflicted by seeing another man’s penis as part of their porn.
But generally, it seems to be common for both men and women to find same-sex couples (of a gender they’re attracted to) a turn on. Lesbian porn is mostly for straight men. Male/male slash fic is mostly by and for women (or gay romance novels or yaoi).
I’m not sure that the two are inherently different in motivation or that the women are doing the “let the guys get warmed up and then turn to me” thing.
Like I said, it’s common for both sides and nothing to shame. Though it’s probably better not to openly fetishize it about your friends, Lucy. Or Amber.
Ah. That probably explains why het hentai manga seem to rarely show the males… wait, no.
Het hentai manga tends to show the peens more than anything else of the males and focuses very much on the female orifices. That’s probably to allow reader immersion imagining themselves as the perps.
And in the censored versions, the peens are taken out one way or another. Hm, yes, maybe that still fits.
Though I bet there are differences depending on the medium.
Some straight dudes can be bothered by seeing other men and thus prefer scenes with just women, while others can prefer male/female scenes. Or prefer all woman scenes for different reasons.
I was proposing one possibility, not a general rule that covers all men.
Lucy maybe picked up on Amber’s slashfic obsession and decided to also unleash her inner slash/yaoi fangirlism?
Lucy has wanted to get wiigii’ed for at least the last week and a half. let the girl live vicariously through asher’s boy smooching.
I mean I like people kissing. Though usually that’s just in fiction. If a friend tells me they just frenched someone I’d be like “neat! I’m happy for you”
I guess it’s all based on context. Being excited for romance is fair enough. It’s just a bit off here cause Lucy’s not really close enough to be asking for details. At least not to me. But I guess it’s a gray area.
That was exactly my reaction, Lucy is not nearly close enough with Asher (as in, I’m pretty sure they’re not even friends outside of their connection to Billie and Raidah) to be jumping in for details like that.
Also, not romance. It’s Asher doing full disclosure with his S/O about someone making a move on him. Lucy’s doing romantic fantasies that ignore relationship realities again.
first link, unbungled: https://www.dumbingofage.com/propriety/
It may be an outdated stereotype, but I haven’t noticed slash becoming less popular.
To be fair, Lucy just had this sort of energy whenever there’s kissing going on, gay, straight, whatever. I think this is less “Lucy is fetishizing homosexual relationships” and more “Lucy is an intense shipper and always wants all the deets”.
Not that its a whole lot better than way, but its a different sort of awkward :D.
Amber does not have a monopoly and Lucy has displayed similar traits previously
Oh, well I was gonna give her the benefit of the doubt for sec there cause I thought Wraithy2773 made a good point but it is just a bit of fetishization. Oh, well I guess everyone has their cringe era.
I could well be wrong on Lucy’s “fetishization of LGBTQ relationships” versus “just generally being a shipper” stuff, but I’m going to keep that as an open possibility until she shows disdain for a straight ship :).
I admit, maybe this is cultural and y’all are like, from the Northern Hemisphere or something but here we’d be like. Yeah – A shipper, but also, she’d be just someone who likes a good gossip session? Which isn’t like “oooh, the bestest trait” but it’s… It’s pretty normal.
Yeah, she’s a fujoshi and trust me, it super tracks with her personality :’D
Also in one of her early Shortpacked appearances: https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/magic-2
I suspect it’s from the fact she’s 18 and not that mature.
well they are both fandomy nerd girls u_u tragic!
maybe shes just being nosy and Jennifer is just assuming horny intent. or we’re about to experience a well meaning but awkward overcompenstating #ally moment.
Lucy was already making headcanons about Walky and Amber the very first time she met him when he came to Billie for advice. Shipping is just Lucy’s default state
I really dislike how this creepy stuff is just played off for laughs… :/
Creepy and funny aren’t mutually exclusive. North Korea is one single giant joke, for example.
Is Lucy into anime?
Her night cap is a pokeball so I’m betting yeah.
At least a little bit
Jennifer needs to realize that she isn’t doing well and clearly her Billie is ahowing
Speaking of which, her behavior to me says
1) dry-drunk and
2) concussion
I act just like Jennilie is doing right now after I hit my head. Everything is a personal slight. I feel justified in acting outraged and defensive and vindictive about EVERYTHING. “Look at that bongo eating crackers” level chip on the shoulder. It’s a side effect of head trauma. The brain and body are coursing with cortisol and adrenaline to minimize inflammation and preemptively ward away any further touch or sound or contact that could inadvertently reinjure. It’s like being hungover. Hence the dry drunk / delayed withdrawal metaphor.
And, from what we’ve seen, Billifer / Jennillie has primarily been acting like this since Ruth slammed her head into the floor, with no evidence of a head tuck. And Billifer just stalked off and rejoined her group — no evidence she even iced her head or lay down in the dark for a bit. No wonder she’s firing on just one cylinder right now! She’s literally at her wit’s end! No rope left, so she “pounds the table” and pretends it was everyone else’s fault she hopped off the cliff with insufficient rope. When in doubt, throw a tantrum. It works for toddlers. And after head trauma, one sometimes feels like one has about the reasoning capacity of a toddler. Speaking from experience.
A true friend would hold her accountable for her actions, get her an ice pack and some sunglasses (maybe earplugs too) and walk her to the infirmary, tell them she needs a quiet place to rest.
Of course, that alerts the authorities to the fisticuffs between her and Ruth on Jennillie’s old hallway. But the whole situation is messed, messed, messed up, and Billifer needs both accountability and support right now. She’s clearly emotionally impaired, and clearly hurting. Badly.
I’ve had a really bad, like, years to recover and still dealing with some shit from it head injury. It’s… Hopefully not as bad but she needs to go the hospital.
Somehow I had a feeling Jennifer wouldn’t care. Even so, it’s good Asher told her.
Asher really deserves better
The alt text saved me some time because that was the very next thing I was going to do.
Somehow I get the vibe from Jennifer that she would be the kind to ‘open a relationship’ if she wanted to suddenly kiss a boy/girl that she wanted, yet when her partner then goes ‘okay’ and started kissing other boys/girls, suddenly she throws a temper tantrum and says that it’s time to close it.
It’s a very specific vibe, but it’s a vibe.
Yeah, that sounds like Jennifer.
I’m manifesting this.
I’m also manifesting Asher going “k let’s close it” and fucking off, preferentially for Ethan-er pastures.
Uh.
Shit. That’s just put a different spin on the abusive relationship my best friend got out of a few years back. Not exactly the same but the whole “these are the boundaries of our relationship, sorry it doesn’t suit you” suddenly became “what no these are the boundaries and you’re totally cheating on me! But also the boundaries that weren’t what you wanted before totally haven’t changed, even though the two conflict.” And- because red flags just look like flags through rose tinted glasses- my best friend went “oh… okay” and went along with it.
So in my example it’s more like if the person giving that vibe declared that their partner was cheating for kissing other people but it was okay if they did so. Not a one-to-one example, but what you said…
Well it hit home hard. Because that sure is a vibe I’ve had to process.
Isn’t that kind of the opposite of what’s happened here though?
Jennifer hasn’t suggested she be allowed to fool around with anyone else and she’s not getting mad at Asher for kissing Ethan.
Don’t forget her bi-phobia even though she’s bisexual.
Panel 3 Jennifer has a face that implies to me that she is quite bothered by this discovery. However, a mixture of internalized bi-phobia (Asher can’t like kissing guys, he’s dating me and I know he likes me. If he can date me but also enjoy guys, that means I can also like men and women and that would mean my relationship with Ruth was real and now it’s over and that upsets me!!!) and her…drama hurricane ness means this is being interpreted as a catty attempt to make her jealous, rather than reaching out for open communication.
The bit in parentheses is very good, finding out something is real that you didn’t think was real, especially an internal thing, is very difficult for a lot of people and I don’t recall Jennifer showing that she’s well equipped with the tools to process it well.
She’s working through stuff that could take months or years for her to get ok with…
Right on. Jennifer likely interprets boy/boy kissing as “just some weird phase” or “curiosity”. Not “real”.
Notice she didn’t say, “Kiss a billion other PEOPLE.” Just “dudes”. From her perspective, kissing someone of the same sex is just attention seeking or misguided behavior. Just temporary.
1: Good on Asher for being straightforward here (jokes about “straight” aside). He laid things out as clearly as he could, because he wants to be an upright and honest guy. He’s making clear what he’s asking about as well. I can’t really think of anything I’d expect a decent person to do that he isn’t doing in this situation.
2: The important panel here is #3. I’m sure most will just skip to Panel 4, but its important that we see her *actual* reaction to the news, instead of the facade that she’s been hiding behind.
She’s surprised and a little hurt, but she’s not letting herself get involved with those emotions, so she’s scrambling back to some semblance of control. Regardless, though, that asshole persona does seem to be an affect, and its doing little right now but poisoning all of her relationships.
3: Lucy remains adorable and hilarious :D.
I agree, wise internet stranger.
I don’t find Lucy adorable at all. She’s fetishizing asher’s bisexuality, sticking her nose into personal relationships that are absolutely none of her business because she has not friends with Billie and absolutely not friends with asher, and she’s a complete hypocrite for how she has criticized Sarah for being mean to her so-called friends yet continues to worship Billie who is way meaner to everybody
I agree about Lucy. She’s being gross and inappropriate
so, as someone else said above, 18.
Lucy is more gross and more inappropriate than any other 18 year old in this strip. Sure, Amber is having a similar reaction to thinking about Asher kissing Ethan, but Lucy is not even friends with these people whose conversation she is hijacking and has turned it up to 20.
She interjected once. That’s not a hijack.
Mary is 18 iirc 👀
18 on the outside, a bit younger on the inside, I think.
Take a look at an average crop of college freshmen. Some of them are children; some are adults; some, well, it’s hard to say — they’re all over the place.
I’m honestly not reading Lucy as fetishizing Asher’s bisexuality. That might well be a thing, but she honestly just seems more squeeing in terms of relationships and kissing in general.
Its more primo shipper energy than anything. I haven’t seen her do anything to promote gay/lesbian relationships over straight ones or anything, she just seems hyped up at people kissing.
As for the hypocrite stuff… she’s seen more of Billie/Jennifer than she has of Sarah, and ~100% of the stuff she’s seen of Sarah has been negative, while she’s also seen some of Billie/Jennifer’s softer bits. Its not hypocrisy, it’s just an entirely different situation, altogether.
I’d be more okay with Lucy if she wasn’t jazzed up about Jennifer’s boyfriend kissing another person.
If ya’ll are okay with Amber doing it but not Lucy doing it, maybe ya’ll need to rethink things.
I don’t think anyone is okay with Amber doing it either
I agree with your second point very enthusiastically!
I lost track of whose second point you’re agreeing with, but I’m hearing a lot of Asher and Ethan should make out, and Lucy is a terrible person for wanting the same thing.
There’s a difference between people saying it about fictional characters and Lucy saying it to the face of the person she’s objectifying–while he’s trying to talk about it to his girlfriend.
So where was this outrage when Amber did it?
people have been calling amber creepy for her fetishization of ethan’s sexuality for ages. the outrage has always been here
Usually being screamed in the face of anyone who doesn’t mind her doing it.
Amber and Ethan are friends and she didn’t shove herself into the middle of someone else’s private conversation.
And she still gets criticized for it.
I’m agreeing that Jennifer is definitely putting up a front to pretend the knowledge that her boyfriend had kissed someone else (even though he didn’t start the kiss) isn’t totally upsetting for multiple reasons. The Lucy stuff, I’m steering pretty far away from right now.
You know, Jennifer, they say you have to love yourself before anyone can love you.
[Jennifer spends 10 minutes talking about how great she is and going “how could I not love myself?” while avoiding commenting on how she feels towards herself.]
I hate that saying *so much*
Well, here’s Jennifer destroying all her personal relationships because she can’t stand the nerdy earnest person she is and thinks becoming a cool and popular icon of the social elite instead would be possible and healthy and her frustration because it keeps not happening makes her very unpleasant for everyone to be around.
I’m bored by that saying so much. It’s treated like magic: just flip that switch and your life will be great, you don’t need anyone. [Plays “I am a Rock” on dusty cassette Walkman]
Some people would be better off if they could let go of enough self-disgust to stop obscuring their better qualities. But without advice as to how, this platitude is just a variant of “go in peace, be warm and well fed.”
Well that advice would depend on the specific kind of self-hate a person is dealing with. My advice for Jennifer would be to take therapy seriously. To acknowledge that she’s not well, that she’s troubled by any kind of self-hate at all, that seeing an outsider’s perspective on what’s going on in her life could have value to her, would be a starting point.
Hence my thought that being told the problem she’s not acknowledging (being unreasonably horrible to everyone and making them hate her) is a firmly established cliché (not allowing anyone to like you because you don’t like yourself) might make her think for a moment. (And also be super defensive about it.)
I had been married to my husband for two years after dating him for five before I learned to love myself, and I wouldn’t have been able to get to that point without his support.
That saying is as toxic as Jennifer is being rn lol, though I know you certainly didn’t mean it like that.
I honestly don’t know how Jennifer is gonna grow out of this awfulness. Like, I know Asher is a murderer by giving the order, but it’s just so much less actively aggravating than Jennifer (and Lucy tbh) that I’m like “You don’t really deserve better but you kind of deserve better my man.”
Like, it’s the “Character A is annoying to the reader (being specifically me)” vs “Character B is a bad person but enjoyable to read” dilemma is what I mean
No I probably didn’t mean it like that. To me it’s just a practical problem. How do you find someone to marry you if no human being can stand being near you and your self-hate in the first place? Jennifer seems to be doing worse than I did at her age, and now I’ve lived alone for 21 years. Plenty of time to figure out how to live with myself, only at this age it’s almost impossible to ever meet people to enjoy being healthy with.
Of course, with Jennifer’s kind of money she might just stay in college where people are forced to socialize with her one class at a time until they graduate and never stay in touch with her and she’s 80. She’ll be UI’s Pierce Hawthorne.
People who feel unable to love themselves are all different. Most of them are in fact perfectly lovable.
For example, maybe they’ve got depression or trauma or something in the way of knowing quite how to love themselves right now — and anyone can get depression or trauma, so that could be any kind of person.
The practical way to meet a potential spouse when you don’t love yourself is pretty much the same way as for people who do love themselves. (Make your life as excellent as possible for yourself, while asking out other people who may want to ride that ride with you — and if they don’t, hey, at least you’ve gone and designed a good life for yourself anyway, that’s great and you’ll be fine whether you find a copilot or not.)
Also the added step of unearthing and examining any relationship-kiling beliefs lurking in your head. (Jennifer’s: “only a broken, messed-up person could possibly love me. Toxicity is exciting and romantic. Drama Hurricane forever.”) Even beliefs like that don’t make you unlovable — Ruth definitely loves Jennifer — but toxic beliefs will cause you no end of troubles, so if you’ve been struck by the not-loving-yourself lightning, a good shrink is pretty much a must.
most of the time i dont really get billies sexual appeal but, not gonna lie, in that top? i get it
*jennifer, oops 😐
She def cared for a second—& not the way Asher thought she would . . .
You mean in her mants?
mants meuphoria?
Asher keeps coming off as a reasonable dude. He’s making it really difficult to keep not trusting him…But I still don’t. Someone’s gotta hold the line till that shoe drops.
We want you on that line!
We need you on that line!
(I’m also holding that line.)
Yeah. Same. The breaking into her room (and not answering when Jennifer asked HOW he got in while she was sleeping) were red flags for me.
he needs a leather jacket and a moronic twin to pull that kind of shit off.
I trust that Asher is genuine and does want to be a better person.
That doesn’t mean his family won’t come back to haunt him or that he himself isn’t dangerous
Jennifer’s a fucking smokeshow.
ikr?
Great punchline, honestly. The fujoshi is strong with this one.
As for Jennifer, the thing is, I can see why she’d assume this was a ploy given how out of fucking nowhere it’d seem to her, and what with the last time she saw him, yeah, he was indeed trying too hard. Of course, she’s an idiot and wrong, but I’m trying to be fair to her for her obviously not having the context that we have.
Naturally, though, she’d be given more of this context if she asked any follow-up questions, so I am not letting her off the hook entirely for being a jerk about this.
The two need to break up. I am not saying that to crap on Jennifer, who I do still like, but it’s clear they have reached their expiration date as a couple.
Okay, honest question, what do you actually LIKE about Jennifer? To me, she’s pretty close to the second worst student character in the cast (Behind Mary, obviously.)
She had some good moments (even post-timeskip) but I think the last few storylines have just veered her more and more into ‘I want to see less of this character now.’
Now to be fair, she’s not the only character to go through this phase – Joyce was like that for a while for me.
Personally I enjoy Jennifer as a character. She had so much character growth, but then she slid back into her old patterns after the timeskip. To me it feels like there are some interesting directions her character arc could go in.
There plenty of cast members that I wouldn’t want to be friends with, but I enjoy reading about them. The only character I really disliked was Mike, because he was so one-dimensional and it seemed like there was no way for him to change or do anything beyond mean-spirited gags.
She tries extremely hard to be useful. That’s typical of folks who never got parental validation. That “I don’t need anyone to tell me how great I am, I’ll HELP EVERYONE and PROVE to EVERYONE how much they need me! I’ll SHOW THEM how great I am!” Selfishly selfless. Self-aggrandizing altruism.
…But, for all its misguided motivations, she does TRY hard to be a rock that her friends can rely on and look up to. That’s the “highest self” she aspires to be, whether she succeeds or not.
As a comedic character Jennifer is fun because she tries very hard but consistently fucks things up. This also works well for more dramatic moments
I like that she’s horrible. It makes her entertaining, and it’s more important that a character be entertaining than likeable, because it makes me enjoy reading about them more.
Not that being entertaining and likeable are mutually exclusive, mind you, but it’s nice to have some variety.
All of the conversations so far is understandably about Billie what I want to point out what a hypocrite Lucy is for criticizing Sarah for being mean to her “so-called friends” while worshipping Billie who is much more mean than Sarah.
I mean, Sarah has been awful to Lucy and they’re not friends.
Jennifer is Lucy’s friend-ish.
There’s not really a contradiction.
How is Jennifer Lucy’s friend? I don’t recall her being nice to her once. I also don’t recall Sarah being at all mean to Lucy before Lucy started being openly hostile towards her and accusing her of not caring about Joyce and her other friends
In regards to Lucy being ok with Jennifer’s behavior in comparison to Sarah’s, you’re absolutely right that Jennifer is just as mean if not meaner.
Jennifer has also ditched friends in the past, if only Walky, which is not what Sarah did, but is what Raidah, Jennifer, and that guy who suddenly appeared at breakfast out of nowhere implied.
As for one nice thing Jennifer did for Lucy, she supported her in her liking Walky.
As for one mean thing Sarah said to Lucy before Lucy was hostile (which isn’t even Lucy’s complaint as she never made it about their interactions in the first place), she said they were doing the walk of shame and then claimed that when they do eventually have sex, it will be awkward and over quickly.
Neither example is for Jennifer being nice to her or Sarah being mean to her is a big deal, but I mentioned them to be fair.
I agree with everything you said. Also the big difference to me and why I find it especially obnoxious that Lucy forgives Jennifer’s meanness but not Sarah’s, is that Sarah’s meanness is never intended to hurt (with the exception of when she tells Lucy off), teasing is her way of connecting with people. While it isn’t the best way to relate to people and can be hurtful to people regardless of the intentions, Sarah’s heart is good. And when Sarah realizes she may have gone too far with the teasing , she apologizes.
Jennifer, on the other hand, is mean on purpose. It’s not teasing, it’s just meanness. And sure Jennifer isn’t always mean, but at her best she’s aloof and condescending, about the closest she gets to being nice is to help out her poor nerd friends out of pity well reminding everyone how great a person she is for using her powers of “emotional intelligence” to help nerds.
But Lucy blindly worships popular people, so when Raidah puts a bug in her ear she turns against Sarah in an instant, but would never criticize popular Billie for behaving similarly or worse
Lucy doesn’t simply worship popular people.
She also wants to be popular and she actively tries to think of ways to become so (though that may just be how she approaches life in general).
Remember that when Jennifer moved in, Lucy was the most popular person in their section of the hall.
She held movie nights and people came to her for advice.
Then Jennifer showed up and no one cared what Lucy thought.
So Lucy went to Jennifer’s old dorm the very next day and tried to find a way to weaponize Jennifer’s popularity to lead others to her movie night.
In a similar vein, not only did she dress Walky for his comic interview, but she coached it in regards to throwing Joyce off her game, and then when Joyce skipped class, thereby throwing them off their own game, Lucy said something along the lines of Joyce being more formidable than she thought.
Long story long, she’s not cutthroat with it, and I want to give credit where credit is due as she does seem genuinely nice with a desire to help people, but Lucy does at least strategize around people and even tries to manipulate/manage them in regards to getting what she wants.
Damn, that’s a good analysis.
Lucy really bugs me. And I think you helped me pinpoint why. She reminds me of a particular type of fake person I knew in high school and college. The type of person who is nice to everybody, but it’s a very superficial nice without any substance underneath because all they want is to be liked by everybody and they don’t actually care about being friends with YOU specifically, they just want friends and the more the better. Their intentions are good but you’re basically just a number to them when they tally how many friends they have. And then you can’t even tell anyone you don’t like them because they’re so damn nice that you just end up looking like the asshole
Lucy definitely wants to be liked by everyone.
On the other hand, I think she’s calling out Sarah not only because the popular people said something, but because she thinks Sarah is wrong for this behavior; the popular people just pointed out the behavior for her or at least gave her the courage to speak up.
As a people pleaser, she could easily not say anything, but she stands out to say something to Sarah who is older, meaner, and bigger than her.
Not only that, but she does so in response to Sarah teasing Joyce, not Sarah teasing her (though she does, or at least did, think Joyce was a white bisexual version of her).
She also did it in front of Joyce (who’s likely to defend Sarah), Walky (who already didn’t buy into the “Sarah is the worst” spiel from team Raidah), and Sal (who probably doesn’t care or at least tends to mind her business).
She didn’t do it in front of people she knows she’d get approval from.
On the Other other hand, Lucy is the type who has ideal situations and not only tries to make said situations happen, but can be so locked in to how she thinks it SHOULD be that she has trouble seeing things from another perspective.
That’s why she has blinders on regarding popular people.
That’s why she hemmed up Danny over his third-date-denial because that was her ideal situation to lose her virginity with Walky, even though she never needed that situation (and she’s not thinking about the fact that she’s never even kissed him so why is she worried about sex).
In her mind, friends don’t act this way, so Sarah’s friendship behavior is wrong, and now popular people also think it’s wrong so it’s ok to say something.
But I think Lucy believes that if Sarah was suddenly being friends the right way, she would have no more issue with it and think she simply helped set her straight (like you said, her intentions are good).
Compare that to Raidah who doesn’t give a damn if Sarah is friends in a right or wrong way and simply hates Sarah’s guts (which, to be fair, Sarah also hates her guts).
That’s true, but while her standing up to Sarah in front of Joyce and Walky doesn’t exactly fit people pleasing behavior, I think she expected Joyce and Walky to agree with her once she pointed out that Sarah was mean and I think she was quite surprised when they didn’t. Like you said, she has very firm and often unrealistic expectations of how friendship and social situations are supposed to work. I think she thought that she was standing up for Joyce, and everyone other than Sarah would appreciate her for this, because it’s so obvious to her that Sarah is being a bad friend and she is being a good friend, she’s totally thrown off when they defend Sarah and don’t thank her for standing up to her. So while it’s not entirely people pleasing it’s not really anti people pleasing either
Oh, gosh. Maybe Lucy kind of *is* Billie in that sense. They both really value popularity, they’re both kind of hung up on high school in their own ways.
:/
As Malaya would say, she’s fakey
She’s NEVER been nice. Any nicety has been incidental.
But remember they live together, and beyond any social climbing (or not!) Lucy really dreams of that “roomie and I are best friends” experience – Though I suspect she knows in her heart of hearts it’s more about trying to keep things pleasant than Jennifer putting any work into them having a decent relationship, so. Willing self-delusion?
Lucy might be getting setup for a fall honestly. Like she’s really excited that she’s gotten in with the “popular” group not realizing that they’re jerks using her to destroy their rivals. Jen’s kind of a victim here too, backsliding into her bad habits from highschool just from hanging out with them.
Jennifer is only Lucy’s friend in Lucy’s mind. The bulk of their conversations have been Jennifer pushing her away but Lucy staying to get a whiff of that sweet sweet popularity. With Jennifer maaaybe doing one or two nice things for her while Lucy keeps forgiving her, forgiveness that I don’t remember Jennifer having asked.
Its not that Billie/Jennifer has ever been particularly nice to Lucy. Its more that Lucy’s seen more sides of Billie/Jennifer than her asshole facade. She’s seen her be legitimately romantic and awkward and even a fangirl.
Sure, Billie/Jennifer has been routinely a jerk and/or asshole to Lucy, but she’s also been a *person* overall.
Meanwhile, Sarah’s just been an asshole. Lucy hasn’t spent enough time around Sarah to see any other sides to her, really. Its more about the amount of time the characters have been around each other, and how much Lucy has seen of them.
Yeah, I’d really add this to my “it’s complicated” from earlier in this thread.
Sarah is still more of a Concept than a Person for Lucy – And Sarah tried very hard to stay one for Joyce at the beginning, even, except Joyce got past her defenses, got to know her, and got to love her.
… Her Concept is “being an Asshole” with +10 in Sarcasm. All things considered, Lucy has no reason to try and go deeper with her.
Lol, actually Jennifer has made it double triple clear she is not friendly with Lucy, they are not friends, and she would like Lucy to never talk to her again ever. Sarah’s just blunt and forthright with everyone, Billie has decided that Lucy is “not cool.”
Mucy’s not meeping anything in her mants, searching by tags doesn’t sit well with me anyway.
Jenny in red on a Saturday?
Starting to think that Asher is actually the most well-adjusted person in this entire comic.
Is Asher the sort to kiss and tell?
Asher only told those who needed to know.
You tried, Asher. You tried.
Now I’m wondering what will happen when he tells Jen who he kissed.
Is there a reason why Ethan would particularly bother her? Or is it just because he’s a nerd?
I think the more interesting aspect would be that it would be a specific person that Billie/Jennifer could approach/attack/interrogate/do-other-things–at, as opposed to a general “a guy” that can’t be approached directly.
Well Jennifer did make heart eyes at him once, but otherwise yeah, they’ve practically never interacted.
To be fair; this is a very odd thing to hear right after asking if they were still serious lol
It makes sense, it they are broken up its none of her business.
Likely not the first to say this but Jennifer’s giving off strong Julie Powers energy. *Scott Pilgrim book spoilers incoming*
And given that Julie’s boyfriend Stephen broke up with her upon realizing he’s gay and deserved better than the toxic relationship they were in I can hope Asher just cuts things off with Jennifer already.
Oh I’m glad you specified Scott Pilgrim – I was briefly wracking my brain about what Jennifer possibly had in common with Julie Powers of Marvel’s Power Pack.
Well Julie’s gay or bi (in Runaways at least), so she has that in common with Jennifer.
It’s weird seeing Asher, the guy who essentially had a guy, a terrible example of a human being but still a person, killed, be the moral compass of this relationship.
So when Asher and Jennifer eventually break up for good, how long before Raidah runs the numbers and decides that she’s keeping Asher and getting rid of Jennifer?
And how hard a fall will that be for Jennifer to realize her new friends were never her friends?
Oh, that would be GOOD.
And it’d turn Jennifer’s “INJECT IT INTO MY VEINS” clamor for drama into the mother of dramatic ironies. I need to see it.
Well Asher was in the clique first to begin with, and Raidah has already shown contempt for Billie’s rude behavior towards Walky as well as for Billie’s interests (Kit Fisto). It seems clear to me that she doesn’t like Billie at all and will drop her in a second when Asher stops dating her.
Then again, as a social climber, it’s all about the numbers, so who knows
Hmmm, how “traditional values” is Raidha’s church? If Ethan and Asher start dating will she welcome Ethan because he is handsome or violently reject him (and Asher” because he had nerdy interests, is Jewish, and is gay? Are Ethan’s parents useful to her in some way?
Oh funny, I figured that Asher would get points for the gay relationship because it’s so progressive and diversity and blah blah blah. But she is religious so maybe not
Raidah extolled Jacob’s brother for his work regarding Carla’s lawsuit, so it seems that she at least gives lip service to seemingly more progressive ideas.
So while it’s easy to see her being anti nerd, I doubt she’s going to come out antisemitic or anti gay.
I think Raidah goes to a mosque, not a church, since I believe her faith is Islamic.
Yeah, Raidah’s Muslim. That said, she was lauding Jacob’s brother for his work striking down transphobic laws. I know you can at least nominally support trans people and not gay people, but I don’t think we have evidence of that with Raidah.
Raidah seems to me only nominally a Muslim — she made fun of Joyce for “believing in angels’ though angels are also part of the islamic faith.
Unless that’s a Willis mess-up, that implies to me that Raidah is in fact an unbeliever.
Not all Christians believe angels are literally real either. Why should all Muslims?
That’s such a weird take. Some atheists get really weird about other people’s beliefs.
Actually, Asher didn’t show up as part of the clique until after Jennifer did, with the implication being that he is basically her ‘plus one’ to the group dynamic. Otherwise, we have no clue how Raidah and Asher would be previously acquainted.
If you look at the Halloween flashback, Asher is there already when Raidah brings Jennifer into the fold.
No, you might be right.
Asher isn’t there in the flashback, just Carl and Char (or was it Chan?) so Asher might be the newest member.
I’ve been misremembering for the longest time.
(Also, it’s been my own personal head canon that Raidah’s dad’s law firm defends Asher’s granddad’s Korean mafia, so I figure they know each other from before college).
Oh man, if Raidah’s parents WERE involved with Asher’s grandpa, that would be a pretty cool little plot thing. I like that idea/headcanon!!
OTOH, Asher does say he’s glad she fits so well into our group, which implies “our group” preceded Jennifer.
Depends. Is Raidah just social climbing with Jennifer or is she actually working some more nefarious scheme aimed at Sarah and Joyce? Because Asher would be useless for that.
And probably less useful for the social climbing than Jennifer is anyway, unless aspires to become a mob lawyer.
Goddamn yaoi fans!
Jennifer deserves her downfall to come right about now. Starting with a breakup coming her way.
Fuggeddaboutit. Unless ‘right about now’ takes another five-to-ten.
Crap! Accidental flag; I’m sorry! ☹️
At this point I think Jennifer’s nothing but a complete roadblock to Asher’s attempts to be a better person (Which I do think are genuine). He should REALLY pull a Ruth and get the heck outta there.
Do NOT let Ruth hear you say “pull a Ruth” if you value your femurs.
I didn’t expect Lucy to have Amber’s kind of annoying “gay men kissing is my business” shtick. It tires me.
Anyways, deep down, Jennifer wants Asher to be bad for her. “Why?” probably has. What. Ten different answers? She wants to prove she needs Ruth to fix her. She wants the toxicity she thinks she deserves. She wants excuses to dump Asher because he’s not making her feel far enough from the Old Billie–if she’s dating a guy who reminds her of Walky, it means she hasn’t really advanced at all, and she’s still awful and pathetic. etc. etc.
can we all agree Billie is the absolute worst!
Not Asher, apparently.
I’ll second that.
Good God, is she still in junior high?
There’s something about panel 4 Jennifer that’s so weirdly Malaya-esque. The insistence she doesn’t care, the assumption that the other person is lying, the sheer “How does your brain work???” convolution…
The difference, of course, is that we have panel 3, so this is much more a persona than the genuine “…what?” Malaya provides, but still.
wow, Jennie continue being the worst, it’s almost refreshing (no it isn’t)
Someone has to be
I don’t mind the reverse chara arc, at least she’s not so lost in another person she’s willing to die for them. but it would be good if she cared more about asher, otherwise she should just break up and move on/stick to one night stands/hookups as opposed to expecting him to behave how she wants
Asher is turning out to be a surprisingly stand-up guy for someone who orders mob killings.
well, we don’t know how many times he did that before
at least the target was deserved and he wasn’t going on some serial killer spree of ‘innocent targets’ and having his family connections clean up the bodies
Troubling that mobbed up cops killing a potential witness is given a pass because the witness “deserved it”.
I don’t think he enjoyed doing that, it just had to be done after Blaine threatened him and then used the resulting leverage to hurt innocent people. He’s trying to be better but he still gets dragged back into the mob shit sometimes.
I do not buy for one second that Asher and the mobbed up cops executed Blaine, a money launderer who had records of which cops were on the take and evidence that Asher stole from his mob-boss Grandfather, because Blaine was dangerous to other people.
#NotAllAssassins
Hello, Asher. Jennifer. Replacement Amber.
That was very mature.
Asher is becoming an actual good person I think…. so weird.
i’m sure a ver of jen would be jealous if he tried to hide it from her. She seems unphased by it being a boy tho so maybe she’s dated bi guys before (then again she’s also been with girls so it shouldn’t matter but i’ve totally known some drama queens that’d be hypocrtical/biphobic about that)
Well, asher’s still young and not set in his ways (not that a 50 year old who was a piece of shit couldn’t improve but i imagine less ppl would give him a second chance versus starting over)
I don’t know if she believes this actually happened. Asher kissing a dude might be implausible for her, a person who doesn’t acknowledge bisexuality.
i bet you’d care if it was walky, jen lol
I refuse to accept the fact that Jennifer is that clueless, this seems like a deliberate attempt to create a breakup while making it look like it’s his fault and not her’s
Surely she could break up with him over kissing someone else? That’s hardly her fault. I think she wants to punish him for acting uncool by being angry for an unspecified period, but then pick up where they left off when she’s cooled down.
I want Jennifer to clash with Malaya soooooooooooo hard
Oh yeah if Walky wanted to create a poly couple Lucy and Amber would get along just fine…
WITH Lucy and Amber, this is what I get for posting right after waking up.
Lucy, who the fuck invited you into this conversation? Mind your own goddamn business.
And here’s Lucy doing the exact thing people got mad at Sarah for, but of course she’ll get a free pass for being all “hee hee I’m so cute and quirky”
Also Jennifer is an idiot
Did you mean Amber? I do not think Sarah would care if two guys kissed.
I’m referring to how Sarah was scrutinized for “butting into” Walky and Lucy’s plan to point out how bad an idea it was, but Lucy is eagerly butting into Jennifer and Asher’s relationship issues because of cringe yaoi shipping.
If she’d just wanted in on the wacky hijinks I think it would have been better received. The specific issue is that she was very critical and offering unsolicited advice to dump Walky.
A billion dudes is an awful lot of dudes. Seems like it’d be difficult to even get around to kissing a million dudes. Asher has his work cut out for him.
I remember there was one celebrity (can’t remember if it was a sports star or rock star?) who claimed to have slept with 40,000 women in his lifetime. Somebody crunched the numbers and said that, in order for that claim to be true, the dude would have had to be sleeping with 2.5 different women every single day since he was FOURTEEN. So he was clearly lying his ass off. 😛
Maybe he went to a lot of orgies. 10,000 of them.
While not quite to those lofty figures, King Charles II was said to have slept with approximately 15000-18000 women from when he was 19 til his death at 69 (nice), which meant at least four different women a week. And he had a special sex chair that let him have sex with two women at the same time.
According to QI the sex chair was that other libidinous monarch Edward VII.
Is Jennifer taking a class to learn how to be so lovable or this is a natural skill of her?
This is lovable to you? Or are you being ironic?
Is Jennifer what happens when your own parents are absent, and the best you get is the Walkertons as surrogate parents on the weekends? Or is the twist really that she had everything she needed, there is no plot reason for her to be like this, this is just her and she’s actively destroying everything she’s ever had.
Jennifer makes me feel the same way Asuka Langely Soryu makes me feel: Deep compassionate pity at what has been done to them and what they’ve been forced to become, and a need for powered armor before I deal with them myself.
I feel like if I met Asuka I would give her as many hugs as she wanted and gently encourage her to be a nice person.
Panel 3 Jennifer: God that is so hot I can’t tell him that!
Panel 5 Lucy: God that is so hot I want him to tell more!
Off-panel Amber: *already working on the fanfic
At the words “kiss a billion dudes”, Amber’s eye twitched a little.
(Also jfc Jennifer, come on)
I approve of every character’s behaviour today and find them all delightful and cute
I concur. Tragedy tomorrow…
Jennifer, he is being open, honest, and direct. This is not a ploy.
she is so fucking toxic
Asher’s pronouns are he/him.
good thing im talking about jennifer then
lmaoooo
She’s scared of being vulnerable and was recently concussed. I think she should see a doctor actually.
hopefully a doctor that will treat her with sensitivity and respect for her body 😔
Goddammit Billingsworth
Jennifer is SO pretty today, she looks really good in red!
Cute ladies in tank tops yes please and tank you
Can’t believe I’m gonna say this but Asher deserves better
Billie better get practicing her surprised pikachu face.
PIKAAAAA!!!!! 😊
I am loving the trans flag coloring in Panel 2.
…Huh? Trans flag is light blue, light pink and white. Where did you see light pink besides maybe a couple little cheek-blushes on Billie’s face?
Panel 2.
Light pink wall to Asher’s left. Asher’s wearing a white turtleneck. Light blue wall to Asher’s right.
Have to chalk it up to screen display, I guess, because I’m not seeing any pink there.
I mean I see it too? It’s like a magic eye thing i think
I’ve now looked at this image on a few people’s phones, 2 computers, and through a TV and it still is brown and blue. 🤷♂️
Ooooooo! Yeah!!! 😍🏳️⚧️
Might as well share this artsy code piece I made, it’s a color-shifting trans pride background I made for a game I’m working on:
https://www.tumblr.com/ngpz-dev/723973252056285184/coding-earthbound-style-battle-backgrounds-in?source=share
Frigging hell, Billie, is there any relationship you WON’T torpedo somehow?!? I mean, really. You actually were doing a good job with Asher. Maybe you were being a dick to old friends like Walky, but that’s actually nothing new. You had a GOOD THING with Asher and you’re ruining it because you noticed some nerd-like tendencies with him that reminded him of Walky and he’s tripping over himself trying to please you and you are just RUINING it.
Geezus. This woman.
Jennifer doesn’t think reality affects her.
I mean, her and Ruth was Ruth’s doing, not hers.
Billie. Is. The single. Worst. Person.
I know, she has redeeming characteristics at times. I know, she is going through some ish. I know, she has a whole fetish about being pissy and antagonizing her partners. I know, she’s just a character and it’s awesome to see because you need negative characters in a story because they exist in real life… But it’s all such toxic stuff that make me dislike her so, so much.
Great story telling, but maaaaaaan Billie sucks.
But she has redeem– she’s going through– you know she has this whole fet– come on, she’s just a charac– goddammit
I feel like Billie/Jennifer is a great example of how some people are only tolerable when drunk
I’d ask what Jennifer’s problem is, but the answer is biphobia.