Sal is actually handling this remarkably well. She obviously didn’t get that from Linda. What are the odds Linda isn’t actually the twins’ mom? She sure isn’t acting like a (decent) mother.
(oof comment got cut off) i’m surprised that she’d admit that she hasn’t ‘won’ against sal unless it’s “oh she’ll come around in the long run/grow up and mature when she’s older” lol
It’s actually easy to understand, if Sal does anything other then center her life around the nice white boy she’s dating she’s trying to piss off Linda
To Quote Dragon Age:”Nobody has the energy to hate a group of people individually”. Linda married her husband because probably because he was “one of the good ones” who wasn’t like her mental image of “other black guys”, Walky having more “ethnically ambiguous” traits endears him to her in a way even Linda probably isn’t conscious of.
Racism isn’t (generally) hatred though. It’s more insidious than that- same with most bigotry. It’s believing in stereotypes. It’s looking at the worst behaviour of a group without looking at the circumstances around it. It’s seeing things connected culturally with a group as “lesser” in some way, bad or wrong or even “just” annoying, and believing that’s totally not racism (or insert other bigotry) because they don’t HAVE to be like that and it’s not like hating the people. It’s being wilfully blind to the nuance of the experience of the group in question. It’s having a knee-jerk reaction to members of that group and not internally addressing it. And probably the biggest one (in terms of reach, because so very many well-meaning people fall into this)- it’s viewing people who are very definitely not of that group as the default.
I’m not going to address Linda’s particular brand of racism, but it’s a mistake to say that racism is “hates non-white people”, because that blinds us to the many, many ways it’s woven into our culture, present in other people, and the ways in which it lingers within ourselves. And the same can be said of most if not all bigotries. The moment you boil it down to a black and white way of thinking is the moment you miss almost all of it.
I honestly think that the “racism is hatred and not any other negative attitudes” idea is deliberately promoted by people so that they can convince themselves and others that they are Totally Not Racist.
It’s born of the understanding of racism taught to most white kids in grade school, where racism always entails cruelty, and where likewise harm done to minorities doesn’t count as “real” racism if it isn’t directly and deliberately cruel. Under this paradigm that’s carried them for years, “real” racism is about distress and interpersonal violence, it’s rare, it’s a hearts-and-minds issue, and they don’t have to think about it much, if at all.
If the understanding of racism simplified for 9-year-olds can no longer carry them admist the dynamics of social power and privildge that affect all of us in the real world, that’s somehow YOUR fault. In their culture, they’re already where they need to be, they mistake their privilege as living proof that systematic racism can easily and painlessly be opted out of, that racism is some boogieman that’ll just vanish if you train yourself to unsee it. 😑
Linda only gives a crap about Sal insofar as Sal is perceived to be aligning herself with whiteness. She’ll deny all day and well into the evening that she’s a racist, but here we are.
Because Linda immediately took offense to the fact that her daughter would dare want to have a meal with her parents alone and not bring her boyfriend that they had already approved of, then adamantly refused to leave with her unless he was also coming
No no what i am saying is she willingly showed up. Thats her aligning with whiteness. There was no reason for linda to act the way she did aside from the obvious racist/bigot reasons.
It’s actually a (slightly mis-remembered) Psychonauts reference, from the old character myspace/campster pages. “I’ve Heard the Mowed Lawn Scream” was on the favorite books section for Lili Zanotto :))
Top respect for the deep cut reference. I’ve read through all those campster pages myself, but all I really remember from them is Mikhail’s fight analyses.
Is true. My ex was playing games during my kid’s pick-up last week and I just refused to emgage. She ended up calling the cops. Why? Because I wasn’t answering her messages fast enough. 🙄 (court order, not talking to each other). Indifference and just sitting and waiting. She went full bongo.
I’d say the calmness really is her pushing for a reaction, Linda just completely fails to grasp the concept that the reaction she’s looking for is for them to treat her the same way they did yesterday if she also continues being calm and non-hostile towards them without her white boyfriend standing next to her while she’s doing it.
Chuck, man, if you don’t want this to be the day Sal finally fully gives up on both of you then right now is the time to break out of being your wife’s yes-man and stand up for the fact that your daughter is doing absolutely nothing to deserve this.
I hoping we somehow get either Charles and Sal father-daughter time without Linda or Linda explicitly stating that lunch with Sal and not Danny is not okay with her. Maybe both.
“WHAAAAAT???” screams the entire comments section.
In yesterday’s strip, Sal’s first words to her mother this morning were to voice her assumption that her own mother considers her merely a tolerable adjunct to her boyfriend. This is not the way to start a peaceful family conversation.
Call it more than justified, all you want. I won’t disagree. But I think Sal is consistently passing up strategic opportunity for an ongoing tactical slap-fight, and I despise such waste.
False. She asked if it’s okay that she’s the only one coming to lunch. That’s a fairly normal thing to ask, the answer usually being “of course!” but occasionally being “Aw, that’s too bad, I wanted to hang out with him”. She did nothing to deserve this.
That’s a hell of a take given that all she says is- “it’s just me today, that gonna be okay?”
That’s it. Like, in a situation with reasonable people, “I know you were expecting me and someone else but they’re not coming, is that okay?” is… just… exactly what it sounds like.
Troll ass comment 🤦♀️
“It’s just me today, that gonna be okay?” Is not the aggression you think it is. Fuck i hate the Trolls that come out when Linda’s around
A new strip does not make a conversation. The first thing Sal said that set Linda off is, was, and remains, “It’s just me today. That gonna be okay?” It’s not her fault it was not okay.
oops, I got the days mixed up and thought you were complaining about Sal’s first line of *today’s* strip. It did not occur to me that you actually thought anything Sal said on the 23rd was aggressive.
Linda is right, there is no way to win with desks: they are either too big and you end up covering them with junk you don’t need or too small and there is not enough room to organize the stuff you do. It’s a nightmare.
Sal trying to “No Sell” her mom’s desperate attempts to fit her actions into her pre-conceived notions of who her daughter is… honestly it’s both funny and sad.
Don’t often see instances of a person being technically correct while also simultaneously not being right, but I suppose that Linda has shown when it comes to aggravation nothing is impossible.
I’ve said before that Sal does get some of this from Linda, like we’ve seen Sal be self-righteous, spiteful, take offense to things that weren’t intended to be offensive, be a bit aloof, etc, but man, this does highlight the difference in degrees, doesn’t it? Sal at her worst isn’t anywhere near this pissy.
However, there’s a very high probability that Sal, in 20-30 year’s time, will be the spitting image of her mother, attitude-wise, whether toward good causes or not.
People’s attitudes generally get worse as they age, not better.
Yeah, considering Sal has had a wildly different set of life experiences, and seems to *want* to be a better person, it seems like she’s got a very good chance of doing so. Case in point.
Let’s not gloss over the fact that when Sal corrected Charles yesterday on her preferred name, he immediately corrected himself (whether or not it sticks is a different story, but at least he makes the attempt in the moment). Linda just keeps on with ‘Sally’.
Charles in general seems to be a less awful person who’s under Linda’s toxic influence. I really hope that Sal is able to break through to him, since there’s no way in hell she’ll ever break through to Linda.
I’m not saying he isn’t complicit. But I do think he has the potential to change, and probably has more chance than Linda does of one day living up to it.
tbf I kind of want a mom here somewhere to change. So far we’re 2 for 2 on the dads being the ‘less terrible’ parent of a set of bad ones. (as opposed to ambers mom…. who was just as much a victim as amber)
A bit of sympathy for the devil, when someone in your family changes their name just a little bit, it can be a challenge to rewire your brain. A whole new name is easier.
? You have experience with both scenarios or evidence for this? I’ve known a few either way and it wasn’t any harder to adapt as it was to use a nickname. 🤷♂️
I’ve changed my gone-by name twice in my life, and my whole family has struggled with changing what they say. They got there in the end but even now years later they trip up occasionally
As a Charlie who switched to Chuck when I went away to school, cause I always thought it sounded dorky, and then tried to switch to Charles when I moved into a professional setting, it was amazingly hard to get those close to me to change. To my siblings I will always be Charlie.
Dina’s mom is pretty supportive, though it’s off-screen. Same with Carla’s parents (unless you want to adopt a ‘eat the rich’ stance). Stacy… tries her best, though Amber’s issues seem to go over her head.
We have more visible bad moms (Linda, Carol, Naomi) than good ones, but the good moms are in the majority, they’re just not very involved in the plot.
Well… of course, you know? “My parents are normal and we have a good relationship” doesn’t make for much of a story. The camera prefers to focus on damaged people making bad choices because that’s the kind of story DOA is.
Of all the moms on display so far, amber’s mom is definitely the most like my mom. I do often wonder where the good mom’s are, and it appears to be a defense mechanism from watching my mom mistreated but crappy father figures. But yeah, Willis has had a hard time with WillisMom, so it does make sense when writing more intense storylines the parent figures are probs gonna be on the crappier side.
I would like to ask you to consider the distinction between “good” and “effective”. Good people can be (or believe themselves) powerless to make things better.
I’m still brimming with curiosity on Mary’s parents, because Willis describes them as “probably very nice people” with Mary learning the wrong lessons at church, but I’m wondering if that’s “nice” the way Carol is “probably very nice” to people outside her current situation or if they’re honestly good people.
Sal was gonna see her parents “tomorrow” but it wasn’t clear that Danny was invited or that he accepted. Also the time/meal wasn’t specified. And between Linda and then Sal’s upset at the end of the night I wouldn’t blame him for changing his mind to focus on just Sal, or even just himself for the day.
I get the take, I don’t think Danny had any say in this, but that’s also good, because it isn’t his situation to say in. Sal wants to see if her parents are genuinely willing to see her in a better light now, without her white boy beard accompanying her, and I’m sure Danny is supportive of that and wants that for Sal..Linda had one job and it was to be welcoming and accepting of Sal, and wanting to spend even a bit of time getting to know who Sal the Adult is.
The funny thing is here that Linda is, on a very technical level, “right”. Like, Sal *is* doing this to test her, strictly speaking. Sal is trying to see how her parents treat her sans-Danny. Linda senses that, and maybe even knows on some level that all she has to do to “pass” is to keep her mouth shut…
… but she’s too mad at not getting what she wants, too resentful of the feeling like her child might be trying to have any kind of power in the exchange, to *not* blow everything up. Things aren’t going her way, and that means someone is throwing a tantrum, someone is trying to hurt her, someone needs to be put in their place.
If Linda was a teenager, her behavior in this *particular* comic would almost fit right in with the rest of the main cast–this completely self-sabotaging need to be In Control could be a flaw to struggle against. Instead, she’s an authority figure who has failed to grow up. Maybe she’s always had enough power and privilege to avoid being told to.
I actually think Sal is a lot like Linda was when she was young which is why it’s impossible for her to not react. Like you said she definitely read Sal’s intentions and just doing that means she’s already failed. It’s kind of sad because Linda clearly wants to “win” Sal’s approval but only on her terms.
Yeah, you definitely see where Sal learned this “never back down, never let someone push you around” stance, only Sal, as an abuse victim, channeled it into standing up to bullies, and Linda, as someone who’s massively privileged, channeled it into casting everyone who bothers her as a bully.
We have literally no insight into any of the parental generation’s prior lives- except that Linda was once involved with the current dean of the school.
You’re making several assumptions about her, in declaring that she isn’t also a victim of abuse (and if we’re being honest, she’s actually far more likely to be a victim of abuse than not, since 1) abuse was both more normalized and more commonplace in the past, and 2) former victims of abuse have a higher likelihood of engaging in abusive behaviors than people who grew up in healthy families…)
This isn’t to justify her abusive behavior toward her children… but it is to say, she is probably also someone who experienced abuse at one point. She just failed to break the cycle of abuse.
I’m not really interested in assuming one way or the other. The “cycle of abuse” thing is pretty overstated from what I’ve read, and I don’t like taking it for granted. I’m working with the version of her we’ve been shown.
It’s technically not even meant to refer to the whole, the abused becoming abusers thing. The cycle of abuse ACTUALLY refers to the internal cycle of love bombing -> abuse -> “I’m so sorry I’ll never do it again” -> love bombing and so on. That’s probably not exactly the steps but it gets the point across
i mean, this is a fictional character not a real person. So whatever assumptions are made are not necessarily baseless, they might be grounded in thematic rather than strictly narrative motivation.
Look I know the conversation of whether spanking is abuse is relatively recent but you realize Charles and Linda are max, 4-5 years pre millennial right? And they will be soon, Assuming they’re not already millennials? Like, they’re not that old. They didn’t grow up in the “children are to be seen and not heard, belt em when they do something you don’t like” era
I mean I’m a millennial and I definitely grew up in the “seen not heard, corporal punishment” era. Most of my friends from that neighborhood were as well, hitting your kids and keeping them to strict authoritarian standards isn’t that far out of vogue.
Also, just to add that no matter how much Willis messes time about, it doesn’t change the characterisations and their influences, which many of his existing examples of terrible parents are likely going to be boomer era.
Also, without going to deep into that debate, if they were and if you treat it that way, you still can’t use it as a reason for why Linda’s like this. This isn’t the “I grew up being spanked and so I do it to my kids too” form of abuse, it’s all her own thing. Vast majority of parents who got spanked didn’t grow up to be Lindas.
There is no way of reading this that Linda is right. Her invitation last night was hardly absolute of including Danny. Nor did he explicitly accept. And while Sal tried mending things after having an upset at Danny it’s quite possible he wasn’t up for breakfast or was just busy.
No, this abuse is squarely of Linda’s making. Sal grey-rocking while speaking honestly is pretty much the only healthy option beyond just turning around and walking away.
Eh, Sal’s responses in the last comic do make it sound like she’s here because she wants to know what Linda will do. It also seems very in-character for her, since she’s explicitly said she’s anxious to know whether Linda’s love for her is contingent on Danny.
“No way of reading this” that way? That feels like an overstatement. You do have a compelling alternative way of reading it, but I think mine makes sense, too!
I think your reading makes sense too. I dunno if Sal’s consciously testing her mom but I do think on some level she has to confirm what she knows her mom is like.
I mean I’m not keen to give Linda any credit, and I don’t think sal isn’t justified, this isn’t a game or a silly little point, she needs to know if she’s genuinely been accepted by her parents or if it’s just that she found the right thing to make them approve of her. It’s absolutely logical that she has gone here purposefully without Danny to see if her parents really have come to see her as an adult and have developed a new respect for her as she is. Remember that she tried to leave her hair curled but tied back, and wore a school uniform at the last parents weekend, and they didn’t even pay any attention to her. Her outburst at Danny definitely indicated she was trying to grapple with the reality that she may have gotten her parents’ acceptance conditional only on having a supremely white bread boyfriend.
That doesn’t justify any of Linda’s behaviour, her hostility is off the charts and unwarranted – to think that literally all she had to do to “win” was just be happy to see her daughter, it’s mental that she’s gone this hard this fast – and yet entirely believable. As soon as there’s no Danny, she’s back to seeing Sal as a rebellious hooligan.
What I don’t support is Sal’s confrontational way of going about it. If what she suspects is true, it will come out fairly quickly. “Don’t push the river.”
Sal wants to box, when she should be thinking judo.
well i don’t support your judgmental stance and think you should be uplifting Sal who’s working with where she’s at in her young life. rebelling against those who raised you is no picnic, and while fiction blablah, you know this is a) partly autobiographical b) resonating with many people. so maybe condescending to a teenager fighting back against parental abuse is not a great look
Confrontational fucking where??? Shes literally just standing there. Shes Giving nothing. Linda is getting mad over nothing. “Just me today, that okay?” Is not a fucking confrontation
I figure they meant no way of reading Linda as IN the right. Like, sure she might be factually correct that sal’s trying to get a reaction, that reaction being the love and acceptance of her mother. Confirmation that she might be loved without attaching herself to a white man. That would make her technically correct, not right. Because this reaction is despicable
Respectfully disagree. Sal isn’t actually testing Linda. She already knows how Linda feels and acts. She saw that on full display yesterday with Walky. If anything, Sal came today to test herself. Last night left her confused: did she really want her parents affection, was that even it? So Sal shows up today to assess how she herself feels around her parents. Does she feel good when when they treat her good? Sal doesn’t really know. But unfortunately, Linda is still Linda. Sal keeps offering her outs in this conversation, but Linda never learned to do big things, “in the opposite direction of anger.” She can’t see the attempts to quietly bury the hatchet. Linda is “technically” wrong about this whole interaction.
I think the problem we’re having here is we all have different ideas of what “test” means.
I think when people are saying “Linda’s technically right; Sal is testing” they don’t mean Sal told Danny not to come. They aren’t saying Sal is being manipulative or that Linda is worthy of praise for guessing Sal is looking for an answer.
I think when people say “test” they simply mean that Sal walked to this meeting with questions and she’s getting them answered. That’s it. Exactly like you described.
“Testing” doesn’t always need to be planned. Sometimes it’s as simple and spontaneous as saying “It’s just me today. Is that okay?”
Linda, as terrible as ever, answers the question clearly.
“Yes, and in this essay I will…”
Linda, the correct answer was “No, of course not.” and it wasn’t an essay prompt…
It’s hard to tell, because there are some who really do seem think that Sal is being confrontational here. That Sal’s “Is that gonna be okay?” yesterday was a challenge intended to get a reaction out of Linda.
Sals body language was casual and neutral when she asked if it was going to be okey, i personally didn’t see anything stand offish there. It all started when Linda angrily asked if Danny was right behind her when it was clear that he wasn’t.
Personally I definitely think Sal told Danny not to come, but I don’t see why people think that’s a problem. We know Sal has fought for ages to be recognised for who she is and not who her parents want her to be, and that it was fundamentally disconcerting and difficult for her sense of self/emotional well-being to finally achieve that purely by dating someone they approved of. She likes Danny, she wants to continue seeing him, but she needed to see if she could just have a normal meal with her parents now, without having to white-ify herself to gain their acceptance.
I will include Charles in this for as long as he doesn’t stand up to his wife and defend her, he also has said some enabling things in times past, so he isn’t a neutral third party just because he isn’t actively pushing the knife in deeper.
The problem is 100% Linda’s to pick up on the intention but to react with hostility rather than empathy. We all see what this behaviour does to Sal, we all want her to have some measure of catharsis, and yet Linda can’t even begin to comprehend that her daughter comes to her almost outright saying “can you love me just for me, are we past the boarding school and the dangling my gas station robberies over my head like a sword of Damocles”, and what Linda comes back with is “ugh you’re still YOU, this is THE WORST.” Sal’s stance was brave and vulnerable, not at all childish and petty. She did it with intention, yes, but righteousness as well. Sal deserves her parents’ empathy and respect for who she is, not who she dates.
not that i condone violence but surprised no one would’ve b*tch slapped her at this point, maybe if she was someone sal’s age , but i suppose most ppl don’t get punched unless the situation is really bad. or something outta anger/impulse like walky did with asher (wonder how the mom would react to that lol)
I don’t wanna say narcissist about ppl who aren’t diagnosed (but man imagine the reaction if they did go to a therapy section and the psych doctor is liek “Yeah, you are a total narcissist/sociopath, etc”) but there’s always someone that always has to be in the right/last word/etc. It’s amazed we don’t have more civil wars, political discourse aside
Discounting her assaulting me at a wedding, it’s been 30+ years since I talked to my mom. No regrets except letting her get close enough at the wedding (not mine).
Good luck Sal. It hurts, but freedom from that hurts less than having it around.
I’m clearly younger than you (since I was mid way to being old enough to be independent thirty years ago) but for me it’s been nine years. (I can track it with my wedding anniversary). Making that break can be so hard but also, in my experience, there came a day where I realised it was never, ever going to be okay with her, it was never going to be worth it.
(For me the only exception was a phone call to tell me a close relative had died, and she ended the conversation with “I’ll talk to you soon”. That was a matter of weeks ago so she might try to reach out but I don’t intend to engage unless necessary and if it IS necessary to go no-contact asap afterwards. Sometimes that’s the only way to be able to heal.)
It’s always painful commaraderie to know there are others dealing with such things. May you always remember that you deserve to be loved, and feel loved, just for being you.
her dad might be ok if it’s just one on one assuming he doesn’t report back every little detail to the mom but yeah “I never thought about her again” would be the deepest cut
Let’s hope walky’s also a capable adult so he can be like “yeah i don’t wanna deal with it either/don’t wanna get involved” and like also able to move 300 miles away “for work/his career/dreams/etc” as an excuse to see them as little as possible if at all lol XD
I am definitely not the only one in the comments section reacting to this with a massively raised heartbeat, because of experiencing exactly this.
Not the specific situation re: scapegoat dynamic and racism, but using every fibre of willpower to act inhumanly calm while being verbally attacked, and nothing you do is good enough. 🙃
oh trust me, ther eare enough “karen” vids out there of way louder outbursts/screaming and dragging random strangers into convos, it def must be awkward if you’re at a family dinner with them who don’t get along as opposed to a public place where you can sorta inch away (I mean i imagine most friends would warn it like “trust me you don’t wanna meet my parents” or if they’re neighbors that are pushy/worm their way into it b/c the parents might not say no to them even if they’d say no to the kid inviting someone, and then the guest immediately regretting it lol)
Ah yeaaaaah, because that’s what you’re trying to do here, not get to know your daughter better, keep up with her life, have a loving meal.
Nope, you gotta “win” the lunch date with your kid. Bein standoffish, bein mad and controlling for no reason, LIKING THE BOYFRIEND BETTER than your own daughter.
Like, great. But… whysabout you just… learn who she is first. Because you don’t. Know who she is.
Yeah they couldn’t even try to do the whole 18 that’s crazy. I know sal was distant but I don’t think a 13 year old can say she’s not coming home for Christmas if her parents really push for it
Linda doesn’t want to know who Sal is. Making an attempt to would be admitting in some way that she doesn’t already and she has no desire to address why spending time with just her daughter doesn’t okey with her on some level, that’s why instead of answering dala questions she deflects with accusations.
I’m feeling vicariously uncomfortable. Don’t they have a professional boat steadier right there? Shouldn’t he be asking about Walky? David?
…
Dave. lmao. Thinking about him being called Dave and I’m no longer uncomfortable.
No no steadying the boat is when you never actually question the abuser and let them do whatever you want. The boat gets rocked when people other than the scapegoat have to deal with the abusers behavior
“you’d like that” is such a bizarre, nonsensical comeback here. “yes, I would like that, I would like this to be normal instead of whatever the hell it is you’re trying to do here? would you NOT like this to be non-confrontational??”
I think best retort still is: “Right, what do you want us to do?” not making a me/you contest but always centering on a common goal to advance toward together. Not that it would totally stop her tbilat behavior, but it’d include Charles and possibly either derive anger and make Charles intervene or by association give a possibility to move on without losing face.
Yes Linda, Sal would like you to not react. You not reacting was the best thing you could have done. Instead you made a big fucking stink about spending time alone with your daughter. The second you decided to make a fuss you failed the test you miserable harpy.
it might seem like a “test” to linda but danny could legitimately be busy, college students do have their own lives even if they date someone. or it would be funny if he passive aggressively showed up and like “well i don’t like how you treat your daughter and your son is a jack ass so i’m only going to spend time with the coolest member of the family” lol
“You’re trying to get a response out of me” “then don’t rise to it” is probably the most ice-cold stab right at Linda’s neurotic controlling bullshit she could have presented, and it still doesn’t work because parents don’t listen to their kids.
“There’s never a way to win with you” I absolutely 100% understand what kind of person and parent Linda is now. Just a constant barrage of bullshit from her to keep everyone on their toes so they can’t “beat” her.
Linda is an impossible piece of shit and Sal is interacting with her in a calm manner, which sets Linda off because Linda is not a rational or reasonable person and does not behave in rational or reasonable ways.
so y’all gonna keep ignoring all the commenters patiently explaining how relatable this is and both-sidesing a conflict *textually* described as bigotry. do feel free to go educate yourselves if you find yourselves mysteriously clueless
Yyyeah, I grew up with a… a version of Linda. And while I’d love to know how she ended up like that (my mother), I don’t disbelieve her existence because I can’t explain it.
Since the beginning, when walky was terrified of her and she was telling people “he only thinks he’s a communications major” *insert evil laughter*
Or maybe when she stole money that was meant to go to a bday injured child’s surgery
Or when she refused to make contact with her barely pubescent child the 5 years she was in boarding school. Sal went when she was 13, Linda could have brought her back for the holidays if she cared about seeing her child ever.
Fucking, god i am so desperate to see this rational, kind, not racist version of Linda you people keep insisting existed at one point. Bc I’ve never fucking met her in my ten years reading this comic
A Black person was different from her at a young age and her parents didn’t teach her that it was fine, probably. What, do you expect a reasonable or even understandable origin story for bigotry? It’s an inherently irrational mindset, there’s no satisfying answer. Sometimes people are horrible and do things that make no sense, it’s their own fault, and they can’t be fixed. Pretending it’s some Big Mystery is just silly.
No no, there’s clearly something especially unusual going on. It’s not like there are millions of people exactly like Linda in the real world whose behavior we can compare to hers. This simply cannot be comprehended if I don’t see every instance of her interacting with another human being over the course of her entire life, and then lay them all out in an intricate web and compare them all, to pinpoint the single precise moment she became an unpleasable Karen.
you know, i’ve been thinking, hear me out. maybe we should just assume no one is ever racist ever. ok? i mean sure there was racism back then, in that other century, but now? it seems really unlikely, doesn’t it? and look. maybe some people are racist. but it’s super hard to really know for sure, like imagine if there is some plausible if fairly insane hypothetical situation where you could explain their behaviour other than by racism, are you just gonna like… call them racist on, like, a hunch? like that’s a big word to be just, yknow, *using*. so, idk, let’s maybe stop talking about racism, maybe.
see, Naomi is an homophobe, Carol is racist, an homophobe, a transphobe and a financial right winger/fundie support. The three of them have expressed their will to control their kids behavior by manipulating theme and denying them expression of their needs and identities. I feel like giving a “worst parent” award is not the most productive, it rather shows a system at work which need to be destroyed collectively and individuals that need support against oppression.
It makes sense enough assuming Sal was right all along.
Linda does not respect Sal, the specific reasons why don’t matter (except they do). Meanwhile Sal has always tried to please her parents and earn their respect and affection. And she’s always failed, until she showed up with Danny in tow.
During the lunch with Danny, Linda did a 180° on her treatment of Sal- considering her opinions, and engaging with her. Now Sal was probably hoping this could be something to build up on, and is now trying to spend time with her parents away from her boyfriend (because one imagines that your parents are interested in spending time with you, not your significant other).
So of course Linda goes full reverse on her treatment of Sal since Danny isn’t present. Because the acceptance she showed Sal was completely contingent on her boyfriend. Sal isn’t even trying to have an argument, she’s tried to get Linda to de-escalate but without caving in or hiding herself.
I’m reminded of when some people saw Turning Red and thought the mom’s over the top reactions were overblown or unrealistic, only for the director to admit she based it off of things her own mother did. If you’ve never met a mom or person like Linda, it does come off as completely unreasonable. …Because the behavior is unreasonable, but that’s also just how some people are.
I have an aunt who is 100% like this. Linda resents Sal. Maybe she had only wanted one child, specifically a son. Having twins isn’t something you really plan on, after all. So she has her golden boy son who can be molded… and the extra child, who is more ‘difficult’. She, urgh, has her own opinions and thoughts, and doesn’t compromise for mommy. She dares to be outspoken and doesn’t bend to mommy’s rule.
But one day, that daughter gets a shiny boyfriend! A doe-eyed little white boy, exactly like the son she may have always wanted. And suddenly he makes Sal look so much better, especially compared to her golden boy son who is failing at being a golden boy. For a moment, things are happy…! But then the daughter shows up WITHOUT that shiny trophy boyfriend in tow. And all you’re left with is your daughter. And honestly all this interaction tells me is that Linda doesn’t love her daughter. Because if she did love her, just eating lunch with her daughter would surely be enough. But it isn’t. Because Sal isn’t enough for her.
I’ll admit that I’m projecting here but I don’t think Linda loves either of her children. She may love the idea of them, but the people? Highly doubt it.
Oh no worries, Ming Lee is a wonderful if flawed mother who absolutely loves Mei. The comparison is moreso the idea of people seeing the behavior of a parent and saying “that’s not realistic, my parent wasn’t like that”.
This interaction makes 100% sense when you have been raised by people like Linda (not at all except from this flavour of break from reality in my case.) Linda does not like Sal minus Danny. Linda does not want to examine why that is. Linda does not like Sal. This is Sal’s fault. Why is Sal like this?
She will never, ever back down on her perception of reality.
Demanding free labor from others is cringe. 3D modeling takes time and effort, and if you’re going to make these requests in the future, you should offer compensation.
Violets are blue
Roses are numerous
My english is horrendous
But that poem felt nice to do.
Ok, now you owe me 30 bucks bc there is no such thing as a free cake and we will bash capitalism by not establishing a counterpower based on needs and possibility to meet them rather than monetizing art and tech produced thanks to african slave labor.
I don’t the schpoonman is actually expecting anyone to take him up on this request. I think these sorts of comments are usually a suggestion to imagine something rather than a literal request that a nebulous someone do something. I’m all for people getting paid for their labor, but this is just a cheeky comment.
Yeah, and how rude to describe such a comment as “cringe.” It wasn’t even directed at a specific person. If someone was interested in taking it on as a job, they could respond with a price for their work if that’s what they wanted. But it wasn’t actually demanded of anybody.
Yes, I was aware when I typed my reply that Schpoonman wasn’t actually demanding free labor. I’m not babysitting people by putting /s every time I’m being cheeky.
Um, some of us rather appreciate the clarity, (especially if we can’t always discern sarcasm because of autism or otherwise), so when you put it like “babysitting”, I know you don’t mean it that way but it can come off as rather insensitive?
When I say “babysitting”, I guess I mean something closer to micromanaging or hovering. I’m not trying to sit here and monitor every word I type to make sure there’s no possible way somebody could misread my intended tone. That’s exhausting, and I always end up overthinking it anyway, to the point it ends up being a massive over-explained wall of text instead of whatever small remark I wanted to make. I can’t tag for everyone every time.
Um, “/s” is literally just two characters that takes two seconds to type?
Sorry if you’ve been having a rough time bruh, I get how complicated it can be to read social cues on a multicultural frontier. Maybe take a bit of a breather, a walk or something, make an ice cream Sunday or take some weed if ya can, do a relaxing whatever if ya feel ya need it <3
One of the takedowns in Batman: Arkham involves Batman leaping knees first onto a downed enemy, straddling them to pin them down, then delivering a KO punch.
Probably designed with Batman straddling their waist in-mind, but he can end up on their face and then punch below the belt.
No, actually, there’s no way to win a psychological dominance contest against someone who refuses to play. All you can do now is talk honestly about what you want.
“All I want is for you to never be more than two feet away from the well-mannered white boy whose company I’ve decided is the last chance for your existence to ever be valid, is that so much to ask?”
Okay on second thought I can see why you’d rather serve this tepid stew of passive aggressive implications
On third though, the next strip might be a good point for Sal to blow up and go “what do you fucking want from me? How can I make this better? Do you want me to go bring Danny so you can win at lunch?”
Then Linda will go “I want you to acknowledge you did this on purpose to try to upset me.”
To which the answer is “My boyfriend not coming to lunch is a thing. I. Did. To. You. Why? How can that possibly be a problem?”
“You know why,” would Linda say.
“Ah yes, because of the incident that took away your ability to speak plainly. How about this, Mom: You can either grow up and tell me what the problem is, or you can grow up and shut up about it” is probably not what Sal would get a chance to say before Linda can derail my model in some way. Maybe more hysterical screaming.
Poor Linda. She didn’t want to be this way, but then the Power Rangers’ mortal enemy sent down a monster that turned her into an irrational bigot, and the spell just happened to not be reversed when the Rangers blew up the monster.
I am 99.99% sure Sal is attending IU on her own merits, and yet I feel like this weekend is going to end with Linda attempting to sabotage her academic career over…
*notes shuffling*
…Linda being a shrieking racist stain.
Also, goddamn, can we please not give Linda any credit? “Well, tEcHnIcAlLy Linda is right, Sal IS testing her.” This is a woman who stole $700 from her child because the child wasn’t falling in line with her mother’s racism. If Sal DOES bring Danny along to win her mother’s approval, I guarantee it will still not be enough, and Linda will move the goalposts again.
well the mom did pull some strings to get her to have her motorbike on campus but other than a tutor/extra credit or some stuff idk if she could rly affect her grade
Ppl assuming Linda is correct are endorsing her toxicity.
Linda didn’t even politely ask why. I hope Danny shows up 5 minutes late claiming he overslept,or was caught behind the Marching Band , just in time to witness Linda’s abuse.
I don’t think there’s a single interaction in the entire comic between Sal and Linda where Linda has been genuine and acting in good faith. It’s always a set-up or Linda had a point she intended to make before Sal said a single word and nothing short of the Kool-Aid Man busting through the wall would stop her.
commenters: have been painstakingly dissecting the intricacies of Linda’s racism for the entire run of the comic
Mark: “this is all incredibly mysterious, i wonder who could possibly help me understand this situation”
This person is racist. That is so mysterious. No one is born that way, so we really need to examine them to figure out how they could possibly have become racist in the late 20th century United States. That is far more important than understanding how their racism affects an actual main character.
Alright, maybe that’s a little more confrontational than was really necessary. I kinda just mean that any form of bigotry, I also consider a form of situational stupidity. Because people who are otherwise a genius are still racist a lot of the time, for some goddamn reason. And the “bad environment” is just them being raised wrong, with the wrong values and priorities, in an area that’s (often subtly) built to reinforce that wrongness and treat it as right. There’s never one inciting incident that can genuinely and solely “cause” Linda’s flavor of behavior (beflavior) on its own, it’s always an interconnected web of just… just dumb shit, propagated by bad people for their own gain. The American Midwest is a place where that kind of thing is normalised and treated as if it’s not a “real” problem, and if Linda grew up there (she went to college there from what we can gather, so it’s not a very big leap), it’s more likely than not that she soaked up all that shittiness and stupidity and just came up with her own self-righteous reasons it was all fine.
I don’t really like trying to get into the head or mindset of an unsalvageable lost cause like Linda, so I’ll stop there.
I mean, Sal already made it clear that Danny isn’t coming to this lunch. It *doesn’t* preclude Danny showing up in passing on some different engagemetn he has, but would it really matter? He already saw how her parents treat Sal, and he’s already stoos up for her, all Danny witnessing this would do is make Linda feel bad about “being improper in public” or some bs like that. And Linda would inevitably just blame it all on Sal or- if pressed- on Danny-being-poisoned-against-her-by-Sal
I think Danny presence after Linda falsely blamed Sal is the only way ( if her husband won’t say anything) to shame Linda or shine a mirror on her behavior.
I think she cares about Danny ys opinion, and cares about Sal’s, but only in Danny presence.
We really haven’t seen Danny defend Sal to her parents and it’s likely to effect her father’s opinion and take Sals side.
I also think you aren’t considering how Sal might feel when he tells Linda off for disrespecting Sal. This will be easier when Sal is getting blamed for Danny . No one has ever done this before. This is an opportunity for him to Dan it up for good. His loyalty combined with saying the wrong thing will make it classic.
And as other people have pointed out it was Linda who invited Sal without explicitly inviting Danny. Sal said yes and showed up on time. Lindas blowing a fuse at Sal for doing exactly what was asked of her.
Wally showed up with an obvious fake girlfriend, hours after they met the real one.
A fake girlfriend who Linda already said she didn’t like and tried to get kicked out of school.
Yet Linda never accused Walky of trying to get a reaction out of her. Even when the truth was Revealed.
Linda is the only one who weaponized meeting for lunch. This is the third time. First excluding Sal. Then Walky. Now doing it again.
The behavior is taught after the removal. I didn’t say she’s stuck in a featureless room with no doors or windows and deprived of sensory input, did I? Goddamn.
well i doubt they’ve treated sal ‘nicer’ even in front of walky, if anything sal and walky ragging on each other is ‘normal sibling rivalry’ behavior but if anything i assume they would’ve grown up with “why can’t you be more like David” or “At least david isn’t robbing any convenience stores” or something like that
I love how passive in this Sal is and Linda still gets pissed. She is basically smashing her head against a wall and then blaming the wall for being injured.
I would say this is Linda banging her head against a wall and screaming at the wall for not crumbling and falling on top of her because “that’s what you always do because you enjoy it!!!1”
parents are allowed to stumble but being shitty on purpose even if it’s not ‘technically’ abuse is pretty bad, tho they could’ve been perfect parents and ppl are going to become who they are regardless (like mike mostly being one dimensional because of his shortpacked chara [didn’t read its walky/the others] but having like ‘saintly’ parents in comparison to the things he said/did)
My main hope here is that Sal and Linda, especially Linda, do that Simpsons mean legitimately:
Dig up.
Or to paraphrase Schlock Mercenary, “Not stop digging until it goes all the way through”.
Linda’s bigoted. Sal’s got a wealth of issues related to that that she’s not good at dealing with (and no one should blame her for it). At this point, confrontation is probably the best option, not passivity or acceptance or even diplomacy. Get the ugly shit out there and deal with it like adults, if you can manage that.
I know Sal can. I’d hope Linda can, but… well, she had habits that relate heavily towards awful people who tend to be exactly what stereotypes call them out as…
I was going to +1 this until I got to the fourth paragraph.
Diplomacy and force are the two hands of policy. Used in coordination, they can be much more than twice as strong as either used singly. A jab of confrontation can move your opponent into a position more favorable for a diplomatic overture; a rejected feeler may reveal where to apply force to best advantage.
I do agree that at this moment force is indicated. These two haven’t communicated in a long time, and won’t until one pushes the other off balance. Then’s the moment to deliver a stunning diplomatic blow.
There’s a difference between using diplomacy and being diplomatic. In reality, a large part of diplomacy is knowing when to say “fuck it, lets tap gloves, time to brawl”, but I was more meaning to refer to the notion of being diplomatic, trying to smooth out difficulties in the name of getting along.
The general point is just that the desire to keep things peaceful is, counterintuitively, not what’s needed right now. Raw emotions are what’s needed right now, even if in the moment they might make the relationship even worse (somehow).
Bad moms have existed for forever, they just flew under the radar or get a pass esp if they’re single (nothing wrong if that’s ur choice) since other than the 1950s style home ecs class ppl don’t rly get a ‘proper’ childcare class or so, or would reply defensively on being critiqued about raising a kid or double down depending on the situation
Just dropping in to say this, which i may have mentioned before, but this strip is called “Sabotage” so that’s just asking for me to shill my favourite american movie of the summer.
if you haven’t seen “How To Blow Up A Pipeline”, here, let me do my best sales pitch: it’s a fun, effective, frantic heist flick and it works great at hitting all those Ocean’s Eleven-type beats and is legitimately enjoyable on those terms alone.
But, it is also an incredibly cool and courageous story where the “heist” is, well, it says right there in the title. (And what a badass, provocative title that is.) The casting and script foregrounds Indigenous and non-white characters, as well as suggest poor whites have shared class interest (I’m open to opinions on whether the film does a good job of that particular theme).
As far as i can tell, its a movie that’s directly inspired by real-life radical environmentalist activism of reagent years, from the Blackrock pipeline uprising to the Atlanta forest occupation, rather than the clueless caricature of anarchist activism usually served by hollywood. It’s a solid thriller with genuinely meaningful stakes and that is so rare, and refreshing, and energizing 🔥
So obvioobviously it was independently produced, and you will not have heard about it in the same breath as that other summer blockbuster on the ethics of bombing, although the comparison is interesting and fun. I’d argue that, regardless of your opinion on Oppenheimer, the emotional tenor is just incomparable. Oppenheimer will leave you with a sense of the crushing complexities of history; coming out of How To Blow Up A Pipeline i felt, well, kind of the opposite: that history was constantly in the making and was in all of our hands if we would just realize our own power.
can someone fill me on on what Linda actually wants and what her deal is?
she’s married to a black guy, but she’s racist, but she adopted 2 non-white kids, but she’s actually a racist, but she’d rather have walky date the black girl instead of the white girl, but she’s racist
I honestly don’t get what’s going on.
does she just surround herself with non-white people so she can look un-racist while being racist? and what racist things has she done?
Please understand that these are all sincere questions, brought about by confusion and missing information.
Her racism is not…active sort. It’s more “my husband is one of the good ones” and other less-than-conscious things. It’s less “my daughter seems more black, I don’t like her” and more “but your hair’s so nice when it’s straight, why can’t you behave” and that sort of passive insidious background bullshit.
Lucy vs Amber seems to be a case of more passive background bullshit (oh, our plans suddenly changed, SOOO sorry if Lucy can’t make it) vs active known “do you realise what this bongo did?”
Not really. She wants to live in the comfortable, conformist environment where there are no threats, problems or misbehaviour. Wants her kids to have respectable, socially-approved lives. She is a text book definition of “I want everyone to live like me.”, a walking talking homeowners association giving you tickets for lawn violations.
I’m guessing it’s how her parents raised her. She gets angry because it isn’t working and she doesn’t have the self-reflection nor desire to think about why. It’s clearly Sal just being difficult on purpose, you see.
People get into unhealthy patterns because they can’t see what theyre doing objectively.
I’m guessing most of her racism isn’t that conscious she just “genuinely” doesn’t like person X, Y, Z. They just “happen” to be black.
Here she thinks, I believe, “oh sal thinks I like Danny because he’s white. How dare she imply I’m racist? She told him not to come just to prove a point, that i would prefer to spend time with her and danny rather than just her. I feel manipulated and angry” then she expresses her anger rather than thinking about why sal may think that, or just that its sad her daughter thinks that.
Well Linda wants her kids to be proper and succesful people, pretty much what any parent wants. Problem is she has very specific and limited idea of what that means and she is pretty vicious about enforcing it.
This is also where her racism and general bigotry comes from. She does not want to associate with people she sees as less than her or who sees as trouble makers. She really wasn’t happy with Sal’s friendship with Marcie because she was the “wrong kind of people” due to their financial situation I think?
She wants to associate, and for her kids to behave and associate with, people she approves of. And that means the upper middle class white folks who don’t get into any kind of trouble.
We’re not likely to dig deep into why Linda is like she is. This is a comic about the kids and we see the parents from their point of view. That doesn’t preclude change (like Hank), but it makes digging deep into their motivations unlikely.
Linda’s not unrealistic. Lots of commenters have said how familiar she sounds. It doesn’t matter how she got that way, it matters how she affects Sal. (And Walky.)
I really think Linda grew up poor. She reminds me way too much of my late grandmother, who was obsessed with status and always wanted us hanging around the “right people” because she grew up poor, got pregnant with my mom very young, and had to work hard for years to pull herself out of it. It kind of expressed itself as shallow racism and elitism like Linda in her later years. Trying to show the world “See! My family is not trash. I am not trash.” I think that’s Linda.
But like you said we’ll never actually know for sure. She just doesn’t act like someone who was wealthy and spoiled.
Not all racists or sexists, etc, recognize what they’re doing. They have rationalizations for what they’re doing, so they don’t have to ask themselves why they are really reacting the way they do.
Linda isn’t “technically” right. Sal is going into this with no real plan or motives. Last night, she was left confused. Did she really want her parents affection? Did she get it? Sal already know how her mother acts; there’s no need to test it. What she’s testing, if anything, is how she herself feels around her parents. If they had treated Sal nicely again, that wouldn’t have been passing a test, it would have given Sal a chance to decide how she feels about them being nice to her.
So Sal just shows up and just tries to interact. Remember the pachycephalosaurus, it looks like Sal is made for fighting but maybe she isn’t. Sal is trying, again, to do a big thing in the opposite direction of anger. She remains calm, if saddened. She tries to give Linda outs. Some folks seem to think that Sal is essentially giving Linda just enough rope to hang herself, but what I see is a grown ass mom hurling herself at her daughters shoelaces to fashion them into a noose.
Yup, Linda was excited that her daughter brought in a Safe White Boy and became obsessed with him. Sal is only worthy anything in her eyes if she is carrying the “Safe White Boy License”. Without it, she is nothing.
I do think that neither one has a plan for victory. I begin to wonder if they’re afraid of it. They’ve been at loggerheads for so long that after-the-conflict is scary unknown territory. So they continue to fight like the Three Stooges, doing minor violence while avoiding gaining any advantage.
I can’t help thinking of the combatants in “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”: more interested in fighting than in winning a better peace.
I don’t think Sal really wants to fight anymore. She’s been practicing avoidance for a while. She didn’t see Walky or her parents prior to starting college. Last time her parents visited, she put on a false act and outfit and made an excuse to leave. Her eyes in the last panel of this comic are sad, not angry. She says she hates this whole confrontation.
Personally, I think Sal is trying to decide if she wants to cut her parents out of her life entirely. Maybe not immediately, but as soon as possible. It’s one thing to hate them, even to hate them forever, and another to decide to be done with them. And perhaps there’s even some small part of her that wants to find a reason to forgive them, but Linda ain’t giving that to her
I hope Sal can keep up the neutrality on her part, and let Linda continue to spiral out of control as she works herself up. Don’t give her fire any justification, just let her consume herself.
With any luck, maybe Charles won’t get caught up in her mania this time.
I’mma be real honest, Sal only “looks like” she was “made for fighting” if you (and by ‘you’ I mean ‘Linda’) have made a preexisting decision that she does.
Also Linda bought the shoelaces, after belittling the ones Sal wanted to buy for an hour. And once she has them, she also belittles Sal’s “choice” in shoelaces.
Sal finds them relatable. And their body plan seems to have worked out great for them, they were around for millions of years and it seems like it took an asteroid to the Yucatán to wipe them out (what they had the thick, domed skulls for remains debated)
mother -daughter relationships can be complicated whether a dad gets involved or not but hopefully he’s on her side/supportive in the long run even if they never fully get along.
imagine if those commercials had been a success tho she’d be a nightmre as a stage mother
Among the few jobs Linda had, the most basic one was “Be a grown-ass adult” and it’s not JUST that she failed in that job. It’s that she willfully and purposely gave that job a double-middle finger while doing backflips away from it.
A similar plot is going on in love not found. There’s a supportive sister there! Updates about a page a week so very different rhythm.
Anyways, Linda, if you are not comfortable having breakfast with your daughter you can sit this out and they can have a father daughter breakfast, no need to bring other people down.
Does she legitimately hate Sal to the point she’ll only let her paranoia go when a “properly” good egg like Danny accompanies Sal? Is her own daughter an existential threat just by Sal being herself?
It’s like my dad shouting at me because I wanted to put crackers in my chili in a circle pattern (guess he thought it was too childish). As if I was threatening some moral authority. Over *crackers*. There’s no justification for this level of antagonism.
“What the fuck? I just walked up to this guy and started beating his ass when he asked me if I was getting on the same bus as him, why am I being treated like the Bad Guy here?”
i’d never be able to have a kid, money and social status and complications aside i’d be too afraid even accidentally saying something that’d fuck up their psyche as opposed to just having a dog lol
i can’t imagine being a hormonal teen with more broken friendships and such with ppl lashing out/projecting/taking your anger on your friends, let alone dealing with a family who’s like that constantly
I honestly love scenes where one character is behaving like a rabid balverine and the other is being completely casual. Linda sees her daughter and immediately gets furious, Sal sees her mom and immediately gets exhausted, it’s very realistic writing.
lol ppl say ‘ don’t feed the trolls’ but i’m sure there’s some good ppl with alt/backup accounts that’d ‘engage’ with trolls and argue with them while being calm if only to stop them from spreading vitriol towards undeserving ppl
Linda – You are her PARENT. You aren’t supposed to be trying to ‘win’. You are supposed to be helping her become a responsible adult. You know, the type that doesn’t want to ‘win’ against her kids . . . .
@NG: Lol luckily this isn’t one of those ironic tragedies where Linda would die, but literally get reincarnated as sal’s next child lol
Or even a kid who’s on the grandparents side/similar to them (grandparents spoiling their grand kids is the norm/fine once in a while, but i can imagine some ppl that had complex/bad relationships with their parents feel bitter if their kid got stuff from the grandparents that they were never allowed to have/do when they were little)
Would be for the best but also equally entertaining if she went to the same place, same table or not and either passive aggressive sniping at each other for the next 30 mins if not just straight up the silent treatment
no idea where else to put this, but I’m seeing random, completely innocuous comments where, instead of the “Flag” option, it says “Moderated” but otherwise everything is the same… curious?
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Sal, you don’t have to interact with the garbage.
It’s GARBAGE.
We should throw Linda in a dumpster!
Sal feels guilty for not handling her generational garbage for the sake of her local community.
Garbage is a great band!
The individual members of the band are good, but together they’re Garbage.
she’s only happy when it rains
Calling Linda garbage is an insult to garbage.
Imagine that!
I wonder where she got it from ¬_¬
It’s SALotage!
Sal is actually handling this remarkably well. She obviously didn’t get that from Linda. What are the odds Linda isn’t actually the twins’ mom? She sure isn’t acting like a (decent) mother.
Presumably, Linda was there for the pregnancy and birth…
It would be nice if becoming a parent made everyone good at parenting. Instead, moms are people, and some people are jerks.
She could be lying. In another universe, she certainly didn’t hesitate to lie about who Sal and Beef’s parents were.
But in that universe, she was Sal’s biological mother.
It IS possible for someone to have traits and skills they didn’t directly inherit from their mother.
Gotta love seeing convos with your daughter as something to “win”
Tho other than painting herself as the victim i’m surprised
(oof comment got cut off) i’m surprised that she’d admit that she hasn’t ‘won’ against sal unless it’s “oh she’ll come around in the long run/grow up and mature when she’s older” lol
Good to see them getting along!
Truly heartwarming.
Uuugh I don’t understand Linda at all. She sucks so bad
It’s actually easy to understand, if Sal does anything other then center her life around the nice white boy she’s dating she’s trying to piss off Linda
The answer is racism
What doesn’t make sense is why she married a black man just to mother mixed children she hates for their skin color
It makes a lot of sense considering we’ve gotten to know Linda’s worldview a LOT better this arc.
To Quote Dragon Age:”Nobody has the energy to hate a group of people individually”. Linda married her husband because probably because he was “one of the good ones” who wasn’t like her mental image of “other black guys”, Walky having more “ethnically ambiguous” traits endears him to her in a way even Linda probably isn’t conscious of.
She’s the type who likes Carlton, but doesn’t like Will and Jazz.
Racism isn’t (generally) hatred though. It’s more insidious than that- same with most bigotry. It’s believing in stereotypes. It’s looking at the worst behaviour of a group without looking at the circumstances around it. It’s seeing things connected culturally with a group as “lesser” in some way, bad or wrong or even “just” annoying, and believing that’s totally not racism (or insert other bigotry) because they don’t HAVE to be like that and it’s not like hating the people. It’s being wilfully blind to the nuance of the experience of the group in question. It’s having a knee-jerk reaction to members of that group and not internally addressing it. And probably the biggest one (in terms of reach, because so very many well-meaning people fall into this)- it’s viewing people who are very definitely not of that group as the default.
I’m not going to address Linda’s particular brand of racism, but it’s a mistake to say that racism is “hates non-white people”, because that blinds us to the many, many ways it’s woven into our culture, present in other people, and the ways in which it lingers within ourselves. And the same can be said of most if not all bigotries. The moment you boil it down to a black and white way of thinking is the moment you miss almost all of it.
Your comment just reminds me of how sad I am that I can’t leave Kudos or something on comments xD
This.
Exactly this.
I honestly think that the “racism is hatred and not any other negative attitudes” idea is deliberately promoted by people so that they can convince themselves and others that they are Totally Not Racist.
It’s born of the understanding of racism taught to most white kids in grade school, where racism always entails cruelty, and where likewise harm done to minorities doesn’t count as “real” racism if it isn’t directly and deliberately cruel. Under this paradigm that’s carried them for years, “real” racism is about distress and interpersonal violence, it’s rare, it’s a hearts-and-minds issue, and they don’t have to think about it much, if at all.
If the understanding of racism simplified for 9-year-olds can no longer carry them admist the dynamics of social power and privildge that affect all of us in the real world, that’s somehow YOUR fault. In their culture, they’re already where they need to be, they mistake their privilege as living proof that systematic racism can easily and painlessly be opted out of, that racism is some boogieman that’ll just vanish if you train yourself to unsee it. 😑
I mean, ppl out there do hate kids. Unfortunately some ppl also end up having htem, by choice or not.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
-WarGames (1983)
Way to make me feel old. 🙂
Oh, it’s not that bad. It’s only forty years ago.
Can’t be, if 1990 was 10 years ago. And we all know it was.
but 2020 was 10 years long
It’s the Kobayashi Maru.
@Dana i’m sure her not showing up in the first place or walking away would also be seen as a ‘move’ lol. XD
What the hell is Linda’s problem. Seriously.
Linda only gives a crap about Sal insofar as Sal is perceived to be aligning herself with whiteness. She’ll deny all day and well into the evening that she’s a racist, but here we are.
… she showed up willingly to a lunch with her white mother. How is that not aligning with whiteness?
Because Linda immediately took offense to the fact that her daughter would dare want to have a meal with her parents alone and not bring her boyfriend that they had already approved of, then adamantly refused to leave with her unless he was also coming
No no what i am saying is she willingly showed up. Thats her aligning with whiteness. There was no reason for linda to act the way she did aside from the obvious racist/bigot reasons.
Oh, and there goes the collective “yikes” from the comments section. Me included, fucking yikes.
Re: your username. Is it because of Linda’s behaviour?
It’s actually a (slightly mis-remembered) Psychonauts reference, from the old character myspace/campster pages. “I’ve Heard the Mowed Lawn Scream” was on the favorite books section for Lili Zanotto :))
Top respect for the deep cut reference. I’ve read through all those campster pages myself, but all I really remember from them is Mikhail’s fight analyses.
A fellow Psychonauts-related username? Fabulous.
Sort of a mashup with Maya Angelou’s I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings?
The smell of fresh-cut grass is basically the grass screaming.
Jesus Christ, Linda, she could not possibly have been more mild in this entire exchange.
It’s hilarious, because to some people (especially trolls), the worst thing you can do to them is indifference.
Is true. My ex was playing games during my kid’s pick-up last week and I just refused to emgage. She ended up calling the cops. Why? Because I wasn’t answering her messages fast enough. 🙄 (court order, not talking to each other). Indifference and just sitting and waiting. She went full bongo.
The best way to hit an enemy is to prove to them that you are not what they think they are.
Sal’s been way calmer and more mature than I would be if someone verbally sniped at me like that
It comes with the territory of being raised by somebody who does this. If you start to raise your voice they *instantly* capitalize on it.
You’re losing your temper, therefore your points are invalid, therefore I am correct by default. Emotion has no place in a conversation, so I win.
Simultaneously, I’m losing my temper and it’s your fault so therefore your indifference is invalid and I win.
It’s IMAX levels of projection.
I’d say the calmness really is her pushing for a reaction, Linda just completely fails to grasp the concept that the reaction she’s looking for is for them to treat her the same way they did yesterday if she also continues being calm and non-hostile towards them without her white boyfriend standing next to her while she’s doing it.
Chuck, man, if you don’t want this to be the day Sal finally fully gives up on both of you then right now is the time to break out of being your wife’s yes-man and stand up for the fact that your daughter is doing absolutely nothing to deserve this.
I hoping we somehow get either Charles and Sal father-daughter time without Linda or Linda explicitly stating that lunch with Sal and not Danny is not okay with her. Maybe both.
We got a brief one-on-one interaction between Charles and Walky comic-yesterday, so maybe…
Thank you for saying that. I was wondering why Chuck is being so quiet. Is it because HE’S been on the receiving end of Linda’s stupid games?
“Yup, totally mah fault. No matter how it turns out, no matter how you think about it, I planned it. Yup.”
Well, Sal did start this one.
“WHAAAAAT???” screams the entire comments section.
In yesterday’s strip, Sal’s first words to her mother this morning were to voice her assumption that her own mother considers her merely a tolerable adjunct to her boyfriend. This is not the way to start a peaceful family conversation.
Call it more than justified, all you want. I won’t disagree. But I think Sal is consistently passing up strategic opportunity for an ongoing tactical slap-fight, and I despise such waste.
haha. no. sucky take. stop it
You’re right. Sal started this one by entering her mother’s proximity without the tempering force of Wonderbread at her side.
False. She asked if it’s okay that she’s the only one coming to lunch. That’s a fairly normal thing to ask, the answer usually being “of course!” but occasionally being “Aw, that’s too bad, I wanted to hang out with him”. She did nothing to deserve this.
That’s a hell of a take given that all she says is- “it’s just me today, that gonna be okay?”
That’s it. Like, in a situation with reasonable people, “I know you were expecting me and someone else but they’re not coming, is that okay?” is… just… exactly what it sounds like.
Truth.
Troll ass comment 🤦♀️
“It’s just me today, that gonna be okay?” Is not the aggression you think it is. Fuck i hate the Trolls that come out when Linda’s around
A new strip does not make a conversation. The first thing Sal said that set Linda off is, was, and remains, “It’s just me today. That gonna be okay?” It’s not her fault it was not okay.
oops, I got the days mixed up and thought you were complaining about Sal’s first line of *today’s* strip. It did not occur to me that you actually thought anything Sal said on the 23rd was aggressive.
“You’d like that, wouldn’t you.”
…huh, getting real shades of Jennifer there.
Good catch.
Don’t know what to make of that from a Jennifer’s boyfriend avatar.
Makes a lot of sense, considering Linea had a big hand in raising Jennifer
Jennifer IS her favorite child right now…..
Linnea Quigley raised Jennifer?!
…Huh, that actually would explain a thing or two. Does Jen often visit cemeteries? Inquiring minds want to know.
Is that the only Linnéa outside of Sweden? Inside, the name has become really common.
Who the hell names a place “Sweden”, anyway?
*plays Eric Clapton’s “I Can’t Stand It” on the hacked Muzak*
Speaking of virulent racists…
I haven’t played a single single of his since…
So, cue up Sabotage from The Beast-y Boys!
Linda, what you, what you, what you want? (What you want?)
This conversation Intergalactic!
Linda is right, there is no way to win with desks: they are either too big and you end up covering them with junk you don’t need or too small and there is not enough room to organize the stuff you do. It’s a nightmare.
Some day I’m going to build a desk that dumps when you stand up.
XD good catch XD
Well that’s just sad and gross at the same damn time.
Sal trying to “No Sell” her mom’s desperate attempts to fit her actions into her pre-conceived notions of who her daughter is… honestly it’s both funny and sad.
Don’t often see instances of a person being technically correct while also simultaneously not being right, but I suppose that Linda has shown when it comes to aggravation nothing is impossible.
I’ve said before that Sal does get some of this from Linda, like we’ve seen Sal be self-righteous, spiteful, take offense to things that weren’t intended to be offensive, be a bit aloof, etc, but man, this does highlight the difference in degrees, doesn’t it? Sal at her worst isn’t anywhere near this pissy.
However, there’s a very high probability that Sal, in 20-30 year’s time, will be the spitting image of her mother, attitude-wise, whether toward good causes or not.
People’s attitudes generally get worse as they age, not better.
That is both a really weird and mildly messed up take to…. take?
Yeah, considering Sal has had a wildly different set of life experiences, and seems to *want* to be a better person, it seems like she’s got a very good chance of doing so. Case in point.
Yeah, something tells me that being like this has consistently rewarded Linda, so all she’s ever done is double down.
By contrast, flexing this attitude has only ever come back to bite Sal.
I don’t think we have much info on Linda’s early life at all. It might have been remarkably similar.
IRL people tend to act like their parents, regardless of how their parents treated them.
No????????
Let’s not gloss over the fact that when Sal corrected Charles yesterday on her preferred name, he immediately corrected himself (whether or not it sticks is a different story, but at least he makes the attempt in the moment). Linda just keeps on with ‘Sally’.
Yup. I picked up on that as well.
Charles in general seems to be a less awful person who’s under Linda’s toxic influence. I really hope that Sal is able to break through to him, since there’s no way in hell she’ll ever break through to Linda.
He’s an enabler. A champion boat-steadier.
I’m not saying he isn’t complicit. But I do think he has the potential to change, and probably has more chance than Linda does of one day living up to it.
Oh, absolutely.
tbf I kind of want a mom here somewhere to change. So far we’re 2 for 2 on the dads being the ‘less terrible’ parent of a set of bad ones. (as opposed to ambers mom…. who was just as much a victim as amber)
A bit of sympathy for the devil, when someone in your family changes their name just a little bit, it can be a challenge to rewire your brain. A whole new name is easier.
? You have experience with both scenarios or evidence for this? I’ve known a few either way and it wasn’t any harder to adapt as it was to use a nickname. 🤷♂️
I’ve changed my gone-by name twice in my life, and my whole family has struggled with changing what they say. They got there in the end but even now years later they trip up occasionally
Okay, playing GravRoulette, definitely don’t want Booster
As a Charlie who switched to Chuck when I went away to school, cause I always thought it sounded dorky, and then tried to switch to Charles when I moved into a professional setting, it was amazingly hard to get those close to me to change. To my siblings I will always be Charlie.
While this is true, it was literally 3 minutes ago in universe. This is Linda doing it intentionally to be a bongo.
You’re assuming they both care enough to try.
Sabotage. Going for lunch with her parents. The lunch she was invited to. How Terrible.
I’m just…i’m just standing here.
Linda’s not just a racist. She’s also a conspiracy theorist, go fucking figure. 🙄
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy when Sal admitted to it. It just makes Linda awful.
Sal didn’t admit to _anything_. This explosion is entirely on Linda. Including her b.s. accusations.
So there’s SOMETHING to admit to!
Eating crackers.
😂 Crackers, nice one bruh! High five!
Wooooow, Linda.
jfc Linda
I’m trying to think of a single positive mom character and the best I got is Dorothy’s mom. Is she it? Is she the *only one*?
umm, Leslie and Robin, DUH.
;P
Mike’s mother
Yeah, but at a nickle a pop, she only comes cheap.
Dina’s parents are fine.
Amber’s mother seems harmless, at least.
Dina’s mom is pretty supportive, though it’s off-screen. Same with Carla’s parents (unless you want to adopt a ‘eat the rich’ stance). Stacy… tries her best, though Amber’s issues seem to go over her head.
We have more visible bad moms (Linda, Carol, Naomi) than good ones, but the good moms are in the majority, they’re just not very involved in the plot.
Which does seem fair. In a lot of my relationships in college, I was much more likely to hear about a friend’s parents if they sucked.
Well… of course, you know? “My parents are normal and we have a good relationship” doesn’t make for much of a story. The camera prefers to focus on damaged people making bad choices because that’s the kind of story DOA is.
Of all the moms on display so far, amber’s mom is definitely the most like my mom. I do often wonder where the good mom’s are, and it appears to be a defense mechanism from watching my mom mistreated but crappy father figures. But yeah, Willis has had a hard time with WillisMom, so it does make sense when writing more intense storylines the parent figures are probs gonna be on the crappier side.
I would like to ask you to consider the distinction between “good” and “effective”. Good people can be (or believe themselves) powerless to make things better.
You can br eat the rich and acknowledge someone is a good parent. That isn’t synonymous with being a good person overall. 🙂
Amber’s mom isn’t perfect, but she cares about her daughter and tries to be supportive.
And eternal respect for breaking away with her daughter from their violent abuser.
YUP. Say what you want about her, she took Amber and got her the hell out of there. She means well, she just doesn’t seem to get what’s going on.
Sierra’s parents are pretty great, and, apparently, so are Mary’s.
I’m still brimming with curiosity on Mary’s parents, because Willis describes them as “probably very nice people” with Mary learning the wrong lessons at church, but I’m wondering if that’s “nice” the way Carol is “probably very nice” to people outside her current situation or if they’re honestly good people.
Wait wasn’t Danny supposed to be here or am I missing something?
Sal was gonna see her parents “tomorrow” but it wasn’t clear that Danny was invited or that he accepted. Also the time/meal wasn’t specified. And between Linda and then Sal’s upset at the end of the night I wouldn’t blame him for changing his mind to focus on just Sal, or even just himself for the day.
I get the take, I don’t think Danny had any say in this, but that’s also good, because it isn’t his situation to say in. Sal wants to see if her parents are genuinely willing to see her in a better light now, without her white boy beard accompanying her, and I’m sure Danny is supportive of that and wants that for Sal..Linda had one job and it was to be welcoming and accepting of Sal, and wanting to spend even a bit of time getting to know who Sal the Adult is.
The funny thing is here that Linda is, on a very technical level, “right”. Like, Sal *is* doing this to test her, strictly speaking. Sal is trying to see how her parents treat her sans-Danny. Linda senses that, and maybe even knows on some level that all she has to do to “pass” is to keep her mouth shut…
… but she’s too mad at not getting what she wants, too resentful of the feeling like her child might be trying to have any kind of power in the exchange, to *not* blow everything up. Things aren’t going her way, and that means someone is throwing a tantrum, someone is trying to hurt her, someone needs to be put in their place.
If Linda was a teenager, her behavior in this *particular* comic would almost fit right in with the rest of the main cast–this completely self-sabotaging need to be In Control could be a flaw to struggle against. Instead, she’s an authority figure who has failed to grow up. Maybe she’s always had enough power and privilege to avoid being told to.
I actually think Sal is a lot like Linda was when she was young which is why it’s impossible for her to not react. Like you said she definitely read Sal’s intentions and just doing that means she’s already failed. It’s kind of sad because Linda clearly wants to “win” Sal’s approval but only on her terms.
Yeah, you definitely see where Sal learned this “never back down, never let someone push you around” stance, only Sal, as an abuse victim, channeled it into standing up to bullies, and Linda, as someone who’s massively privileged, channeled it into casting everyone who bothers her as a bully.
We have literally no insight into any of the parental generation’s prior lives- except that Linda was once involved with the current dean of the school.
You’re making several assumptions about her, in declaring that she isn’t also a victim of abuse (and if we’re being honest, she’s actually far more likely to be a victim of abuse than not, since 1) abuse was both more normalized and more commonplace in the past, and 2) former victims of abuse have a higher likelihood of engaging in abusive behaviors than people who grew up in healthy families…)
This isn’t to justify her abusive behavior toward her children… but it is to say, she is probably also someone who experienced abuse at one point. She just failed to break the cycle of abuse.
LMAO 🤣🤣🤣
I’m not really interested in assuming one way or the other. The “cycle of abuse” thing is pretty overstated from what I’ve read, and I don’t like taking it for granted. I’m working with the version of her we’ve been shown.
It’s technically not even meant to refer to the whole, the abused becoming abusers thing. The cycle of abuse ACTUALLY refers to the internal cycle of love bombing -> abuse -> “I’m so sorry I’ll never do it again” -> love bombing and so on. That’s probably not exactly the steps but it gets the point across
This is the comments section. Making assumptions is what we do.
i mean, this is a fictional character not a real person. So whatever assumptions are made are not necessarily baseless, they might be grounded in thematic rather than strictly narrative motivation.
Look I know the conversation of whether spanking is abuse is relatively recent but you realize Charles and Linda are max, 4-5 years pre millennial right? And they will be soon, Assuming they’re not already millennials? Like, they’re not that old. They didn’t grow up in the “children are to be seen and not heard, belt em when they do something you don’t like” era
I mean I’m a millennial and I definitely grew up in the “seen not heard, corporal punishment” era. Most of my friends from that neighborhood were as well, hitting your kids and keeping them to strict authoritarian standards isn’t that far out of vogue.
Also, just to add that no matter how much Willis messes time about, it doesn’t change the characterisations and their influences, which many of his existing examples of terrible parents are likely going to be boomer era.
Also, without going to deep into that debate, if they were and if you treat it that way, you still can’t use it as a reason for why Linda’s like this. This isn’t the “I grew up being spanked and so I do it to my kids too” form of abuse, it’s all her own thing. Vast majority of parents who got spanked didn’t grow up to be Lindas.
There is no way of reading this that Linda is right. Her invitation last night was hardly absolute of including Danny. Nor did he explicitly accept. And while Sal tried mending things after having an upset at Danny it’s quite possible he wasn’t up for breakfast or was just busy.
No, this abuse is squarely of Linda’s making. Sal grey-rocking while speaking honestly is pretty much the only healthy option beyond just turning around and walking away.
Eh, Sal’s responses in the last comic do make it sound like she’s here because she wants to know what Linda will do. It also seems very in-character for her, since she’s explicitly said she’s anxious to know whether Linda’s love for her is contingent on Danny.
“No way of reading this” that way? That feels like an overstatement. You do have a compelling alternative way of reading it, but I think mine makes sense, too!
I think your reading makes sense too. I dunno if Sal’s consciously testing her mom but I do think on some level she has to confirm what she knows her mom is like.
I mean I’m not keen to give Linda any credit, and I don’t think sal isn’t justified, this isn’t a game or a silly little point, she needs to know if she’s genuinely been accepted by her parents or if it’s just that she found the right thing to make them approve of her. It’s absolutely logical that she has gone here purposefully without Danny to see if her parents really have come to see her as an adult and have developed a new respect for her as she is. Remember that she tried to leave her hair curled but tied back, and wore a school uniform at the last parents weekend, and they didn’t even pay any attention to her. Her outburst at Danny definitely indicated she was trying to grapple with the reality that she may have gotten her parents’ acceptance conditional only on having a supremely white bread boyfriend.
That doesn’t justify any of Linda’s behaviour, her hostility is off the charts and unwarranted – to think that literally all she had to do to “win” was just be happy to see her daughter, it’s mental that she’s gone this hard this fast – and yet entirely believable. As soon as there’s no Danny, she’s back to seeing Sal as a rebellious hooligan.
Oh believe you me, it’ll be a cold day in hell when I agree with or call Linda correct in anything to do with her parenting.
I also support this reading.
What I don’t support is Sal’s confrontational way of going about it. If what she suspects is true, it will come out fairly quickly. “Don’t push the river.”
Sal wants to box, when she should be thinking judo.
well i don’t support your judgmental stance and think you should be uplifting Sal who’s working with where she’s at in her young life. rebelling against those who raised you is no picnic, and while fiction blablah, you know this is a) partly autobiographical b) resonating with many people. so maybe condescending to a teenager fighting back against parental abuse is not a great look
Confrontational fucking where??? Shes literally just standing there. Shes Giving nothing. Linda is getting mad over nothing. “Just me today, that okay?” Is not a fucking confrontation
Confrontation is when I ask for chicken strips and you give me chicken strips.
I figure they meant no way of reading Linda as IN the right. Like, sure she might be factually correct that sal’s trying to get a reaction, that reaction being the love and acceptance of her mother. Confirmation that she might be loved without attaching herself to a white man. That would make her technically correct, not right. Because this reaction is despicable
That’s some racism apologia you got there.
Was this intended for a different comment? Imogen didn’t say a single thing about race.
Serves me right having two Linda strips open at once.
Thank you to Taffy for checking in on this, I really appreciate it (and no hard feelings to Bryy!).
Respectfully disagree. Sal isn’t actually testing Linda. She already knows how Linda feels and acts. She saw that on full display yesterday with Walky. If anything, Sal came today to test herself. Last night left her confused: did she really want her parents affection, was that even it? So Sal shows up today to assess how she herself feels around her parents. Does she feel good when when they treat her good? Sal doesn’t really know. But unfortunately, Linda is still Linda. Sal keeps offering her outs in this conversation, but Linda never learned to do big things, “in the opposite direction of anger.” She can’t see the attempts to quietly bury the hatchet. Linda is “technically” wrong about this whole interaction.
I think the problem we’re having here is we all have different ideas of what “test” means.
I think when people are saying “Linda’s technically right; Sal is testing” they don’t mean Sal told Danny not to come. They aren’t saying Sal is being manipulative or that Linda is worthy of praise for guessing Sal is looking for an answer.
I think when people say “test” they simply mean that Sal walked to this meeting with questions and she’s getting them answered. That’s it. Exactly like you described.
“Testing” doesn’t always need to be planned. Sometimes it’s as simple and spontaneous as saying “It’s just me today. Is that okay?”
Linda, as terrible as ever, answers the question clearly.
“Yes, and in this essay I will…”
Linda, the correct answer was “No, of course not.” and it wasn’t an essay prompt…
(oops I got that last bit wrong. Those responses at the end are supposed to follow “Is that a problem?” not “Is that okay?”)
It’s hard to tell, because there are some who really do seem think that Sal is being confrontational here. That Sal’s “Is that gonna be okay?” yesterday was a challenge intended to get a reaction out of Linda.
Sals body language was casual and neutral when she asked if it was going to be okey, i personally didn’t see anything stand offish there. It all started when Linda angrily asked if Danny was right behind her when it was clear that he wasn’t.
Personally I definitely think Sal told Danny not to come, but I don’t see why people think that’s a problem. We know Sal has fought for ages to be recognised for who she is and not who her parents want her to be, and that it was fundamentally disconcerting and difficult for her sense of self/emotional well-being to finally achieve that purely by dating someone they approved of. She likes Danny, she wants to continue seeing him, but she needed to see if she could just have a normal meal with her parents now, without having to white-ify herself to gain their acceptance.
I will include Charles in this for as long as he doesn’t stand up to his wife and defend her, he also has said some enabling things in times past, so he isn’t a neutral third party just because he isn’t actively pushing the knife in deeper.
The problem is 100% Linda’s to pick up on the intention but to react with hostility rather than empathy. We all see what this behaviour does to Sal, we all want her to have some measure of catharsis, and yet Linda can’t even begin to comprehend that her daughter comes to her almost outright saying “can you love me just for me, are we past the boarding school and the dangling my gas station robberies over my head like a sword of Damocles”, and what Linda comes back with is “ugh you’re still YOU, this is THE WORST.” Sal’s stance was brave and vulnerable, not at all childish and petty. She did it with intention, yes, but righteousness as well. Sal deserves her parents’ empathy and respect for who she is, not who she dates.
and she’s never going to get that. 🙁
Can somebody shove a sock in Linda’s mouth?
Can it be any rock or did you have a specific shape and size in mind?
How about this one?
Or a fist, a fist would be nice
not that i condone violence but surprised no one would’ve b*tch slapped her at this point, maybe if she was someone sal’s age , but i suppose most ppl don’t get punched unless the situation is really bad. or something outta anger/impulse like walky did with asher (wonder how the mom would react to that lol)
Comments section to Linda: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/28ecb438-964b-4ce7-a21b-d8d0115788aa “how are you not murdered every hour?”
“There’s never a way to win with you”
Ah, pure narcisism from parents. When they always wants to win and you even don’t know what.
The Prize!
It would mean Linda’s having a sword hidden in her car trunk.
I don’t wanna say narcissist about ppl who aren’t diagnosed (but man imagine the reaction if they did go to a therapy section and the psych doctor is liek “Yeah, you are a total narcissist/sociopath, etc”) but there’s always someone that always has to be in the right/last word/etc. It’s amazed we don’t have more civil wars, political discourse aside
Tsundere parents / kids.
Someday will be the last Time Sal will interact with her parents.
That Will be a Good day.
May it come soon.
Discounting her assaulting me at a wedding, it’s been 30+ years since I talked to my mom. No regrets except letting her get close enough at the wedding (not mine).
Good luck Sal. It hurts, but freedom from that hurts less than having it around.
I’m clearly younger than you (since I was mid way to being old enough to be independent thirty years ago) but for me it’s been nine years. (I can track it with my wedding anniversary). Making that break can be so hard but also, in my experience, there came a day where I realised it was never, ever going to be okay with her, it was never going to be worth it.
(For me the only exception was a phone call to tell me a close relative had died, and she ended the conversation with “I’ll talk to you soon”. That was a matter of weeks ago so she might try to reach out but I don’t intend to engage unless necessary and if it IS necessary to go no-contact asap afterwards. Sometimes that’s the only way to be able to heal.)
It’s always painful commaraderie to know there are others dealing with such things. May you always remember that you deserve to be loved, and feel loved, just for being you.
✊❤
her dad might be ok if it’s just one on one assuming he doesn’t report back every little detail to the mom but yeah “I never thought about her again” would be the deepest cut
Let’s hope walky’s also a capable adult so he can be like “yeah i don’t wanna deal with it either/don’t wanna get involved” and like also able to move 300 miles away “for work/his career/dreams/etc” as an excuse to see them as little as possible if at all lol XD
Linda is just perpetuating a conspiracy, she has no logical point.
How can someone be such an insufferable *cartoon* megabongo?
Oh wait, that’s right…
Surely these people can exist, but holy hell…
I am definitely not the only one in the comments section reacting to this with a massively raised heartbeat, because of experiencing exactly this.
Not the specific situation re: scapegoat dynamic and racism, but using every fibre of willpower to act inhumanly calm while being verbally attacked, and nothing you do is good enough. 🙃
oh trust me, ther eare enough “karen” vids out there of way louder outbursts/screaming and dragging random strangers into convos, it def must be awkward if you’re at a family dinner with them who don’t get along as opposed to a public place where you can sorta inch away (I mean i imagine most friends would warn it like “trust me you don’t wanna meet my parents” or if they’re neighbors that are pushy/worm their way into it b/c the parents might not say no to them even if they’d say no to the kid inviting someone, and then the guest immediately regretting it lol)
Okay, Sal, just reach out and grab Linda by the throat. Grasp firmly, and calmly pull her spine out of her body.
FINISH HER! 🎮😤
Gift Ruth the femurs, endear yourself a bit to your RA (is Ruth still RA?)
Do it! sloowwly
Ah yeaaaaah, because that’s what you’re trying to do here, not get to know your daughter better, keep up with her life, have a loving meal.
Nope, you gotta “win” the lunch date with your kid. Bein standoffish, bein mad and controlling for no reason, LIKING THE BOYFRIEND BETTER than your own daughter.
Like, great. But… whysabout you just… learn who she is first. Because you don’t. Know who she is.
tfw u raise a kid for 18 years and do such a terrible job at it that they become a stranger
To be fair, they haven’t raised Sal for the last 5. They shipped her off to boarding school and have barely seen her since.
They don’t know her.
Yeah they couldn’t even try to do the whole 18 that’s crazy. I know sal was distant but I don’t think a 13 year old can say she’s not coming home for Christmas if her parents really push for it
Linda doesn’t want to know who Sal is. Making an attempt to would be admitting in some way that she doesn’t already and she has no desire to address why spending time with just her daughter doesn’t okey with her on some level, that’s why instead of answering dala questions she deflects with accusations.
Sals*
So, which one of these two is a teenager, again?
Both. That’s why this never resolves.
I’m feeling vicariously uncomfortable. Don’t they have a professional boat steadier right there? Shouldn’t he be asking about Walky? David?
…
Dave. lmao. Thinking about him being called Dave and I’m no longer uncomfortable.
Would you care for some sympathy via light physical contact? Or a full hug even? It’ll be ok.
No no steadying the boat is when you never actually question the abuser and let them do whatever you want. The boat gets rocked when people other than the scapegoat have to deal with the abusers behavior
“you’d like that” is such a bizarre, nonsensical comeback here. “yes, I would like that, I would like this to be normal instead of whatever the hell it is you’re trying to do here? would you NOT like this to be non-confrontational??”
I agree.
”Yes, that is why I came. I would like it, that is why I came for lunch. Whats wrong with liking a friendly lunch with you? ”
I think best retort still is: “Right, what do you want us to do?” not making a me/you contest but always centering on a common goal to advance toward together. Not that it would totally stop her tbilat behavior, but it’d include Charles and possibly either derive anger and make Charles intervene or by association give a possibility to move on without losing face.
Perfect avatar for the rant!
… was supposed to be the answer for Bibliholic93
… only had to sacrifice an “o” to get it! Wooty hoo.
IMMA SET IT STRAIGHT
THIS WATERGATE
Yes Linda, Sal would like you to not react. You not reacting was the best thing you could have done. Instead you made a big fucking stink about spending time alone with your daughter. The second you decided to make a fuss you failed the test you miserable harpy.
it might seem like a “test” to linda but danny could legitimately be busy, college students do have their own lives even if they date someone. or it would be funny if he passive aggressively showed up and like “well i don’t like how you treat your daughter and your son is a jack ass so i’m only going to spend time with the coolest member of the family” lol
“You’re trying to get a response out of me” “then don’t rise to it” is probably the most ice-cold stab right at Linda’s neurotic controlling bullshit she could have presented, and it still doesn’t work because parents don’t listen to their kids.
“There’s never a way to win with you” I absolutely 100% understand what kind of person and parent Linda is now. Just a constant barrage of bullshit from her to keep everyone on their toes so they can’t “beat” her.
Boooo. Hiss. General discontent.
Grievous bodily harm fantasy.
I’ll give Willis the benefit of the doubt and assume there’s a missing piece of this puzzle, but boy does this interaction not make sense.
Linda is an impossible piece of shit and Sal is interacting with her in a calm manner, which sets Linda off because Linda is not a rational or reasonable person and does not behave in rational or reasonable ways.
I think the question was “how did Linda become like this?” I, too, would like to know.
so y’all gonna keep ignoring all the commenters patiently explaining how relatable this is and both-sidesing a conflict *textually* described as bigotry. do feel free to go educate yourselves if you find yourselves mysteriously clueless
Yyyeah, I grew up with a… a version of Linda. And while I’d love to know how she ended up like that (my mother), I don’t disbelieve her existence because I can’t explain it.
Since the beginning, when walky was terrified of her and she was telling people “he only thinks he’s a communications major” *insert evil laughter*
Or maybe when she stole money that was meant to go to a bday injured child’s surgery
Or when she refused to make contact with her barely pubescent child the 5 years she was in boarding school. Sal went when she was 13, Linda could have brought her back for the holidays if she cared about seeing her child ever.
Fucking, god i am so desperate to see this rational, kind, not racist version of Linda you people keep insisting existed at one point. Bc I’ve never fucking met her in my ten years reading this comic
Fuckin…. *Badly. Badly injured child
A Black person was different from her at a young age and her parents didn’t teach her that it was fine, probably. What, do you expect a reasonable or even understandable origin story for bigotry? It’s an inherently irrational mindset, there’s no satisfying answer. Sometimes people are horrible and do things that make no sense, it’s their own fault, and they can’t be fixed. Pretending it’s some Big Mystery is just silly.
or, wait for it, they grew up white in a white supremacist colonial state??? it’s really quite shocking when you think of it, like, not
No no, there’s clearly something especially unusual going on. It’s not like there are millions of people exactly like Linda in the real world whose behavior we can compare to hers. This simply cannot be comprehended if I don’t see every instance of her interacting with another human being over the course of her entire life, and then lay them all out in an intricate web and compare them all, to pinpoint the single precise moment she became an unpleasable Karen.
you know, i’ve been thinking, hear me out. maybe we should just assume no one is ever racist ever. ok? i mean sure there was racism back then, in that other century, but now? it seems really unlikely, doesn’t it? and look. maybe some people are racist. but it’s super hard to really know for sure, like imagine if there is some plausible if fairly insane hypothetical situation where you could explain their behaviour other than by racism, are you just gonna like… call them racist on, like, a hunch? like that’s a big word to be just, yknow, *using*. so, idk, let’s maybe stop talking about racism, maybe.
Linda is super racist and arguably the worst parent in the entire comic. Amelie fucking killed it, just go read their comments.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-14/01-everybodys-looking-for-nothing/sabotage/#comment-1744708
see, Naomi is an homophobe, Carol is racist, an homophobe, a transphobe and a financial right winger/fundie support. The three of them have expressed their will to control their kids behavior by manipulating theme and denying them expression of their needs and identities. I feel like giving a “worst parent” award is not the most productive, it rather shows a system at work which need to be destroyed collectively and individuals that need support against oppression.
It makes sense enough assuming Sal was right all along.
Linda does not respect Sal, the specific reasons why don’t matter (except they do). Meanwhile Sal has always tried to please her parents and earn their respect and affection. And she’s always failed, until she showed up with Danny in tow.
During the lunch with Danny, Linda did a 180° on her treatment of Sal- considering her opinions, and engaging with her. Now Sal was probably hoping this could be something to build up on, and is now trying to spend time with her parents away from her boyfriend (because one imagines that your parents are interested in spending time with you, not your significant other).
So of course Linda goes full reverse on her treatment of Sal since Danny isn’t present. Because the acceptance she showed Sal was completely contingent on her boyfriend. Sal isn’t even trying to have an argument, she’s tried to get Linda to de-escalate but without caving in or hiding herself.
I’m reminded of when some people saw Turning Red and thought the mom’s over the top reactions were overblown or unrealistic, only for the director to admit she based it off of things her own mother did. If you’ve never met a mom or person like Linda, it does come off as completely unreasonable. …Because the behavior is unreasonable, but that’s also just how some people are.
I have an aunt who is 100% like this. Linda resents Sal. Maybe she had only wanted one child, specifically a son. Having twins isn’t something you really plan on, after all. So she has her golden boy son who can be molded… and the extra child, who is more ‘difficult’. She, urgh, has her own opinions and thoughts, and doesn’t compromise for mommy. She dares to be outspoken and doesn’t bend to mommy’s rule.
But one day, that daughter gets a shiny boyfriend! A doe-eyed little white boy, exactly like the son she may have always wanted. And suddenly he makes Sal look so much better, especially compared to her golden boy son who is failing at being a golden boy. For a moment, things are happy…! But then the daughter shows up WITHOUT that shiny trophy boyfriend in tow. And all you’re left with is your daughter. And honestly all this interaction tells me is that Linda doesn’t love her daughter. Because if she did love her, just eating lunch with her daughter would surely be enough. But it isn’t. Because Sal isn’t enough for her.
I’ll admit that I’m projecting here but I don’t think Linda loves either of her children. She may love the idea of them, but the people? Highly doubt it.
I kinda hate to compare Ming Lee to Linda. There’s no question she loves Mei, but (working off the example of her own mother) she’s doesn’t know how.
Linda, OTOH, really seems to hate Sal.
Oh no worries, Ming Lee is a wonderful if flawed mother who absolutely loves Mei. The comparison is moreso the idea of people seeing the behavior of a parent and saying “that’s not realistic, my parent wasn’t like that”.
This interaction makes 100% sense when you have been raised by people like Linda (not at all except from this flavour of break from reality in my case.) Linda does not like Sal minus Danny. Linda does not want to examine why that is. Linda does not like Sal. This is Sal’s fault. Why is Sal like this?
She will never, ever back down on her perception of reality.
….. what would the missing piece be?
What more could you possibly need to see?
Linda has to scream the N-word into Sal’s mouth or it doesn’t count, apparently.
Linda’s fucking insane, racist, hates her kid and blows a gasket every time something doesn’t go exactly her way. There. There’s your missing piece
Oh just scope out r/raisedbynarcicists it’s a doozy
You’d like that.
I hate it actually.
I knew it.
Talk about not being able to win either way… Linda complains if Sal likes it or hates it.
“There’s never a way to win with you,” she said to the mirror.
Linda, if you’re trying to “win” at lunch with your daughter… this is definitely not how you do it.
That depends on what she thinks “winning” looks like.
Having a good relationship with her daughter? NOT this way.
Scoring off her daughter? This’ll do.
“So… don’t.” is maybe the best possible response to that
I mean, she could trip mer mom and teabag her while she’s down. That would be pretty funny.
Someone make a Sal skin for one of the Batman: Arkham games, she was born to use the Flying Teabag Attack.
Demanding free labor from others is cringe. 3D modeling takes time and effort, and if you’re going to make these requests in the future, you should offer compensation.
Okay.
Violets are blue
Roses are numerous
My english is horrendous
But that poem felt nice to do.
Ok, now you owe me 30 bucks bc there is no such thing as a free cake and we will bash capitalism by not establishing a counterpower based on needs and possibility to meet them rather than monetizing art and tech produced thanks to african slave labor.
I know that was couched in the imperative voice, but in context it really should be understood as a suggestion, at most a friendly challenge.
I don’t the schpoonman is actually expecting anyone to take him up on this request. I think these sorts of comments are usually a suggestion to imagine something rather than a literal request that a nebulous someone do something. I’m all for people getting paid for their labor, but this is just a cheeky comment.
Yeah, and how rude to describe such a comment as “cringe.” It wasn’t even directed at a specific person. If someone was interested in taking it on as a job, they could respond with a price for their work if that’s what they wanted. But it wasn’t actually demanded of anybody.
Yes, I was aware when I typed my reply that Schpoonman wasn’t actually demanding free labor. I’m not babysitting people by putting /s every time I’m being cheeky.
Um, some of us rather appreciate the clarity, (especially if we can’t always discern sarcasm because of autism or otherwise), so when you put it like “babysitting”, I know you don’t mean it that way but it can come off as rather insensitive?
When I say “babysitting”, I guess I mean something closer to micromanaging or hovering. I’m not trying to sit here and monitor every word I type to make sure there’s no possible way somebody could misread my intended tone. That’s exhausting, and I always end up overthinking it anyway, to the point it ends up being a massive over-explained wall of text instead of whatever small remark I wanted to make. I can’t tag for everyone every time.
Um, “/s” is literally just two characters that takes two seconds to type?
Sorry if you’ve been having a rough time bruh, I get how complicated it can be to read social cues on a multicultural frontier. Maybe take a bit of a breather, a walk or something, make an ice cream Sunday or take some weed if ya can, do a relaxing whatever if ya feel ya need it <3
“The failure mode of clever is asshole.” — John Scalzi
John Scaldeez Nutz, more like. I wasn’t trying to be “clever”, and if you’re gonna call me an asshole, at least use your own words.
What were you trying to be?
I wasn’t.
What is this flying teabag attack?
Do you think it could also work for a hypothetical 2D game? 🙃
One of the takedowns in Batman: Arkham involves Batman leaping knees first onto a downed enemy, straddling them to pin them down, then delivering a KO punch.
Probably designed with Batman straddling their waist in-mind, but he can end up on their face and then punch below the belt.
Oooo sounds like it’d be real neat mechanic in a 2D stealth game
*vigorously scribbles down in designer notebook*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEIJtJNEG_Y
No, actually, there’s no way to win a psychological dominance contest against someone who refuses to play. All you can do now is talk honestly about what you want.
“All I want is for you to never be more than two feet away from the well-mannered white boy whose company I’ve decided is the last chance for your existence to ever be valid, is that so much to ask?”
Okay on second thought I can see why you’d rather serve this tepid stew of passive aggressive implications
I think she crosses over to active aggression around panel 3.
Can’t wait for a hypothetical “you can have her” from Sal to Jennifer regarding her mom.
On third though, the next strip might be a good point for Sal to blow up and go “what do you fucking want from me? How can I make this better? Do you want me to go bring Danny so you can win at lunch?”
Then Linda will go “I want you to acknowledge you did this on purpose to try to upset me.”
To which the answer is “My boyfriend not coming to lunch is a thing. I. Did. To. You. Why? How can that possibly be a problem?”
“You know why,” would Linda say.
“Ah yes, because of the incident that took away your ability to speak plainly. How about this, Mom: You can either grow up and tell me what the problem is, or you can grow up and shut up about it” is probably not what Sal would get a chance to say before Linda can derail my model in some way. Maybe more hysterical screaming.
Poor Linda. She didn’t want to be this way, but then the Power Rangers’ mortal enemy sent down a monster that turned her into an irrational bigot, and the spell just happened to not be reversed when the Rangers blew up the monster.
Oh, Sal, I’m so sorry. But you have your answers now.
Best to just throw this garbage to the seagulls. 🙁
I am 99.99% sure Sal is attending IU on her own merits, and yet I feel like this weekend is going to end with Linda attempting to sabotage her academic career over…
*notes shuffling*
…Linda being a shrieking racist stain.
Also, goddamn, can we please not give Linda any credit? “Well, tEcHnIcAlLy Linda is right, Sal IS testing her.” This is a woman who stole $700 from her child because the child wasn’t falling in line with her mother’s racism. If Sal DOES bring Danny along to win her mother’s approval, I guarantee it will still not be enough, and Linda will move the goalposts again.
well the mom did pull some strings to get her to have her motorbike on campus but other than a tutor/extra credit or some stuff idk if she could rly affect her grade
Linda 🤝 Malaya
Driving Sal nuts with accusations of being fakey
man it’d be pretty fun if malaya or carla did confront the mom but hopefully even malaya wouldn’t take the moms side against sal
Ppl assuming Linda is correct are endorsing her toxicity.
Linda didn’t even politely ask why. I hope Danny shows up 5 minutes late claiming he overslept,or was caught behind the Marching Band , just in time to witness Linda’s abuse.
Exactly.
I don’t think there’s a single interaction in the entire comic between Sal and Linda where Linda has been genuine and acting in good faith. It’s always a set-up or Linda had a point she intended to make before Sal said a single word and nothing short of the Kool-Aid Man busting through the wall would stop her.
Literally don’t understand how/why some people are going “Linda’s not racist, there’s just something we haven’t seen yet”.
Maybe they are going, “nobody is born racist, there must be something we don’t know that offers an opening to defeat the racism.”
commenters: have been painstakingly dissecting the intricacies of Linda’s racism for the entire run of the comic
Mark: “this is all incredibly mysterious, i wonder who could possibly help me understand this situation”
This person is racist. That is so mysterious. No one is born that way, so we really need to examine them to figure out how they could possibly have become racist in the late 20th century United States. That is far more important than understanding how their racism affects an actual main character.
God I wish there was a like button
Commenters: have been studiously ignoring that everything they bring up in response is effects not causes.
The cause of racism is stupidity and a bad environment. It’s not this hard to comprehend.
Alright, maybe that’s a little more confrontational than was really necessary. I kinda just mean that any form of bigotry, I also consider a form of situational stupidity. Because people who are otherwise a genius are still racist a lot of the time, for some goddamn reason. And the “bad environment” is just them being raised wrong, with the wrong values and priorities, in an area that’s (often subtly) built to reinforce that wrongness and treat it as right. There’s never one inciting incident that can genuinely and solely “cause” Linda’s flavor of behavior (beflavior) on its own, it’s always an interconnected web of just… just dumb shit, propagated by bad people for their own gain. The American Midwest is a place where that kind of thing is normalised and treated as if it’s not a “real” problem, and if Linda grew up there (she went to college there from what we can gather, so it’s not a very big leap), it’s more likely than not that she soaked up all that shittiness and stupidity and just came up with her own self-righteous reasons it was all fine.
I don’t really like trying to get into the head or mindset of an unsalvageable lost cause like Linda, so I’ll stop there.
So like, sorry for being an ass about it.
oh shush, Mark.
No. That’s not what they’re going, actually. They are very explicitly going “maybe Linda’s not racist”
I mean, Sal already made it clear that Danny isn’t coming to this lunch. It *doesn’t* preclude Danny showing up in passing on some different engagemetn he has, but would it really matter? He already saw how her parents treat Sal, and he’s already stoos up for her, all Danny witnessing this would do is make Linda feel bad about “being improper in public” or some bs like that. And Linda would inevitably just blame it all on Sal or- if pressed- on Danny-being-poisoned-against-her-by-Sal
I think Danny presence after Linda falsely blamed Sal is the only way ( if her husband won’t say anything) to shame Linda or shine a mirror on her behavior.
I think she cares about Danny ys opinion, and cares about Sal’s, but only in Danny presence.
We really haven’t seen Danny defend Sal to her parents and it’s likely to effect her father’s opinion and take Sals side.
I also think you aren’t considering how Sal might feel when he tells Linda off for disrespecting Sal. This will be easier when Sal is getting blamed for Danny . No one has ever done this before. This is an opportunity for him to Dan it up for good. His loyalty combined with saying the wrong thing will make it classic.
And as other people have pointed out it was Linda who invited Sal without explicitly inviting Danny. Sal said yes and showed up on time. Lindas blowing a fuse at Sal for doing exactly what was asked of her.
Wally showed up with an obvious fake girlfriend, hours after they met the real one.
A fake girlfriend who Linda already said she didn’t like and tried to get kicked out of school.
Yet Linda never accused Walky of trying to get a reaction out of her. Even when the truth was Revealed.
Linda is the only one who weaponized meeting for lunch. This is the third time. First excluding Sal. Then Walky. Now doing it again.
Linda is an unhappy blackhole of shitty mom-ness and I hope that if either of her kids have children, she never gets to meet her grandkids.
I’ve been listening to so many reddit stories that I imagine Sal writing an “AITA for going no contact with my mother?”
Nah, it’s going Linda – “My daughter cut me off for no reason and nobody will tell me why, AITA for removing her from the will?”
“AITA for revoking her college fund and getting her kicked out?”
“NTA. She shouldn’t have gotten into a knife fight with a mentally unstable person.”
Linda is a danger to herself and others. She needs to be kept separate from people for a while, until she can learn better behavior.
I won’t say you’re wrong, but I’m curious how one learns behavior when being cut off from observing others’ behavior.
oops your priorities are showing, bro
The behavior is taught after the removal. I didn’t say she’s stuck in a featureless room with no doors or windows and deprived of sensory input, did I? Goddamn.
They’re both correct, but Sal is right.
Lo and behold, the moment Danny and Walky are absent there’s zero effort into getting along with Sal
Also completely negates the “we were right” moment Linda and Charles had a few strips back.
well i doubt they’ve treated sal ‘nicer’ even in front of walky, if anything sal and walky ragging on each other is ‘normal sibling rivalry’ behavior but if anything i assume they would’ve grown up with “why can’t you be more like David” or “At least david isn’t robbing any convenience stores” or something like that
I love how passive in this Sal is and Linda still gets pissed. She is basically smashing her head against a wall and then blaming the wall for being injured.
I would say this is Linda banging her head against a wall and screaming at the wall for not crumbling and falling on top of her because “that’s what you always do because you enjoy it!!!1”
And if the wall does crush her, she’ll just switch to “Of course you’d do this to me for no reason!”
sigh.
I was going to hold up Linda as an example of a parent who isn’t abusive, but is shitty in small ways. I am rethinking that now.
parents are allowed to stumble but being shitty on purpose even if it’s not ‘technically’ abuse is pretty bad, tho they could’ve been perfect parents and ppl are going to become who they are regardless (like mike mostly being one dimensional because of his shortpacked chara [didn’t read its walky/the others] but having like ‘saintly’ parents in comparison to the things he said/did)
My main hope here is that Sal and Linda, especially Linda, do that Simpsons mean legitimately:
Dig up.
Or to paraphrase Schlock Mercenary, “Not stop digging until it goes all the way through”.
Linda’s bigoted. Sal’s got a wealth of issues related to that that she’s not good at dealing with (and no one should blame her for it). At this point, confrontation is probably the best option, not passivity or acceptance or even diplomacy. Get the ugly shit out there and deal with it like adults, if you can manage that.
I know Sal can. I’d hope Linda can, but… well, she had habits that relate heavily towards awful people who tend to be exactly what stereotypes call them out as…
I was going to +1 this until I got to the fourth paragraph.
Diplomacy and force are the two hands of policy. Used in coordination, they can be much more than twice as strong as either used singly. A jab of confrontation can move your opponent into a position more favorable for a diplomatic overture; a rejected feeler may reveal where to apply force to best advantage.
I do agree that at this moment force is indicated. These two haven’t communicated in a long time, and won’t until one pushes the other off balance. Then’s the moment to deliver a stunning diplomatic blow.
There’s a difference between using diplomacy and being diplomatic. In reality, a large part of diplomacy is knowing when to say “fuck it, lets tap gloves, time to brawl”, but I was more meaning to refer to the notion of being diplomatic, trying to smooth out difficulties in the name of getting along.
The general point is just that the desire to keep things peaceful is, counterintuitively, not what’s needed right now. Raw emotions are what’s needed right now, even if in the moment they might make the relationship even worse (somehow).
I know that I said this yesterday but FUCK YOU LINDA
Dang, Linda fuckin’ sucks. She sure does love being a victim over absolutely nothing.
Is Linda trying to make Bad Moms as much of a thing as <o<Bad Dads?
Bad moms have existed for forever, they just flew under the radar or get a pass esp if they’re single (nothing wrong if that’s ur choice) since other than the 1950s style home ecs class ppl don’t rly get a ‘proper’ childcare class or so, or would reply defensively on being critiqued about raising a kid or double down depending on the situation
Just dropping in to say this, which i may have mentioned before, but this strip is called “Sabotage” so that’s just asking for me to shill my favourite american movie of the summer.
if you haven’t seen “How To Blow Up A Pipeline”, here, let me do my best sales pitch: it’s a fun, effective, frantic heist flick and it works great at hitting all those Ocean’s Eleven-type beats and is legitimately enjoyable on those terms alone.
But, it is also an incredibly cool and courageous story where the “heist” is, well, it says right there in the title. (And what a badass, provocative title that is.) The casting and script foregrounds Indigenous and non-white characters, as well as suggest poor whites have shared class interest (I’m open to opinions on whether the film does a good job of that particular theme).
As far as i can tell, its a movie that’s directly inspired by real-life radical environmentalist activism of reagent years, from the Blackrock pipeline uprising to the Atlanta forest occupation, rather than the clueless caricature of anarchist activism usually served by hollywood. It’s a solid thriller with genuinely meaningful stakes and that is so rare, and refreshing, and energizing 🔥
So obvioobviously it was independently produced, and you will not have heard about it in the same breath as that other summer blockbuster on the ethics of bombing, although the comparison is interesting and fun. I’d argue that, regardless of your opinion on Oppenheimer, the emotional tenor is just incomparable. Oppenheimer will leave you with a sense of the crushing complexities of history; coming out of How To Blow Up A Pipeline i felt, well, kind of the opposite: that history was constantly in the making and was in all of our hands if we would just realize our own power.
End of transmission, happy Linda hatefest yall
Ooh, that sounds like my kind of movie.
Sounds like a great movie!
oh, plus, there’s a cool queer romance! whats not to love
can someone fill me on on what Linda actually wants and what her deal is?
she’s married to a black guy, but she’s racist, but she adopted 2 non-white kids, but she’s actually a racist, but she’d rather have walky date the black girl instead of the white girl, but she’s racist
I honestly don’t get what’s going on.
does she just surround herself with non-white people so she can look un-racist while being racist? and what racist things has she done?
Please understand that these are all sincere questions, brought about by confusion and missing information.
I don’t think Sal and Walky are adopted.
Her racism is not…active sort. It’s more “my husband is one of the good ones” and other less-than-conscious things. It’s less “my daughter seems more black, I don’t like her” and more “but your hair’s so nice when it’s straight, why can’t you behave” and that sort of passive insidious background bullshit.
Lucy vs Amber seems to be a case of more passive background bullshit (oh, our plans suddenly changed, SOOO sorry if Lucy can’t make it) vs active known “do you realise what this bongo did?”
But WHY IS SHE LIKE THIS??? Where’s the handle? Her behavior is not just awful, it’s bizarre.
Not really. She wants to live in the comfortable, conformist environment where there are no threats, problems or misbehaviour. Wants her kids to have respectable, socially-approved lives. She is a text book definition of “I want everyone to live like me.”, a walking talking homeowners association giving you tickets for lawn violations.
And at every step she does exactly what will deny her what she wants. That’s what’s bizarre. She’s had years to see that this doesn’t work.
Peak Karen right there.
and people are rational animals, as we all know.
Surely if she buckles down even harder, it will work!
/s
I’m guessing it’s how her parents raised her. She gets angry because it isn’t working and she doesn’t have the self-reflection nor desire to think about why. It’s clearly Sal just being difficult on purpose, you see.
In her mind Linda has written a script of how this is supposed to go. Sal is not following The Plan. So this is all Sal’s fault.
People get into unhealthy patterns because they can’t see what theyre doing objectively.
I’m guessing most of her racism isn’t that conscious she just “genuinely” doesn’t like person X, Y, Z. They just “happen” to be black.
Here she thinks, I believe, “oh sal thinks I like Danny because he’s white. How dare she imply I’m racist? She told him not to come just to prove a point, that i would prefer to spend time with her and danny rather than just her. I feel manipulated and angry” then she expresses her anger rather than thinking about why sal may think that, or just that its sad her daughter thinks that.
Maybe if you learned how to fucking read, you’d understand what people are saying better.
Well Linda wants her kids to be proper and succesful people, pretty much what any parent wants. Problem is she has very specific and limited idea of what that means and she is pretty vicious about enforcing it.
This is also where her racism and general bigotry comes from. She does not want to associate with people she sees as less than her or who sees as trouble makers. She really wasn’t happy with Sal’s friendship with Marcie because she was the “wrong kind of people” due to their financial situation I think?
She wants to associate, and for her kids to behave and associate with, people she approves of. And that means the upper middle class white folks who don’t get into any kind of trouble.
We’re not likely to dig deep into why Linda is like she is. This is a comic about the kids and we see the parents from their point of view. That doesn’t preclude change (like Hank), but it makes digging deep into their motivations unlikely.
Linda’s not unrealistic. Lots of commenters have said how familiar she sounds. It doesn’t matter how she got that way, it matters how she affects Sal. (And Walky.)
I really think Linda grew up poor. She reminds me way too much of my late grandmother, who was obsessed with status and always wanted us hanging around the “right people” because she grew up poor, got pregnant with my mom very young, and had to work hard for years to pull herself out of it. It kind of expressed itself as shallow racism and elitism like Linda in her later years. Trying to show the world “See! My family is not trash. I am not trash.” I think that’s Linda.
But like you said we’ll never actually know for sure. She just doesn’t act like someone who was wealthy and spoiled.
Thank you.
Not all racists or sexists, etc, recognize what they’re doing. They have rationalizations for what they’re doing, so they don’t have to ask themselves why they are really reacting the way they do.
Linda: “You’d LIKE it if I didn’t flip out over nothing and just acted like a normal loving mom, wouldn’t you?”
Sal: …….yes?
Win what, Linda?
“You know exactly what!”
– People like Linda, when they’re cornered and can’t being themselves to say it.
when in doubt, throw a tantrum
Linda isn’t “technically” right. Sal is going into this with no real plan or motives. Last night, she was left confused. Did she really want her parents affection? Did she get it? Sal already know how her mother acts; there’s no need to test it. What she’s testing, if anything, is how she herself feels around her parents. If they had treated Sal nicely again, that wouldn’t have been passing a test, it would have given Sal a chance to decide how she feels about them being nice to her.
So Sal just shows up and just tries to interact. Remember the pachycephalosaurus, it looks like Sal is made for fighting but maybe she isn’t. Sal is trying, again, to do a big thing in the opposite direction of anger. She remains calm, if saddened. She tries to give Linda outs. Some folks seem to think that Sal is essentially giving Linda just enough rope to hang herself, but what I see is a grown ass mom hurling herself at her daughters shoelaces to fashion them into a noose.
Yup, Linda was excited that her daughter brought in a Safe White Boy and became obsessed with him. Sal is only worthy anything in her eyes if she is carrying the “Safe White Boy License”. Without it, she is nothing.
Interesting. I’m going to have to mull that over.
I do think that neither one has a plan for victory. I begin to wonder if they’re afraid of it. They’ve been at loggerheads for so long that after-the-conflict is scary unknown territory. So they continue to fight like the Three Stooges, doing minor violence while avoiding gaining any advantage.
I can’t help thinking of the combatants in “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”: more interested in fighting than in winning a better peace.
I don’t think Sal really wants to fight anymore. She’s been practicing avoidance for a while. She didn’t see Walky or her parents prior to starting college. Last time her parents visited, she put on a false act and outfit and made an excuse to leave. Her eyes in the last panel of this comic are sad, not angry. She says she hates this whole confrontation.
Personally, I think Sal is trying to decide if she wants to cut her parents out of her life entirely. Maybe not immediately, but as soon as possible. It’s one thing to hate them, even to hate them forever, and another to decide to be done with them. And perhaps there’s even some small part of her that wants to find a reason to forgive them, but Linda ain’t giving that to her
She still wants her parents to love her. She hasn’t quite 100% accepted they probably never will yet.
I hope Sal can keep up the neutrality on her part, and let Linda continue to spiral out of control as she works herself up. Don’t give her fire any justification, just let her consume herself.
With any luck, maybe Charles won’t get caught up in her mania this time.
I’mma be real honest, Sal only “looks like” she was “made for fighting” if you (and by ‘you’ I mean ‘Linda’) have made a preexisting decision that she does.
Also Linda bought the shoelaces, after belittling the ones Sal wanted to buy for an hour. And once she has them, she also belittles Sal’s “choice” in shoelaces.
Pachycephalosaurus? And how did being bone-headed work out for them?
But I like your turn of phrase.
Sal finds them relatable. And their body plan seems to have worked out great for them, they were around for millions of years and it seems like it took an asteroid to the Yucatán to wipe them out (what they had the thick, domed skulls for remains debated)
I was super confused about what was happening yesterday and this cleared it right up. /gen
Great job doing nothing while your wide makes a fool of herself and abuses your daughter at the same time.
He’s clearly been doing that as long as Sal’s been around. He’s just as bad as Linda, because he just sits back and says nothing.
mother -daughter relationships can be complicated whether a dad gets involved or not but hopefully he’s on her side/supportive in the long run even if they never fully get along.
imagine if those commercials had been a success tho she’d be a nightmre as a stage mother
Not the point, but the invitation to this event didn’t explicitly include Danny. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/04-but-dont-give-yourself-away/hardmode/
Among the few jobs Linda had, the most basic one was “Be a grown-ass adult” and it’s not JUST that she failed in that job. It’s that she willfully and purposely gave that job a double-middle finger while doing backflips away from it.
Being an adult is overrated but parents do have a responsibility
Wonder if we’ll see a parallel later with someone having a ‘fun’ hands off parent and the kid being a bit worse off
A similar plot is going on in love not found. There’s a supportive sister there! Updates about a page a week so very different rhythm.
Anyways, Linda, if you are not comfortable having breakfast with your daughter you can sit this out and they can have a father daughter breakfast, no need to bring other people down.
Linda, there’s one person here being aggressive, snippy, and disagreeable, and it certainly ain’t the 18 year old.
Good old projection!
Linda is trying everything she can to start a fight with Sal, so she can justify calling off the lunch date, without looking like the, “bad guy”.
Wow… I hope this isn’t based on personal experiences of Willis.
At this point, it’s Linda mostly arguing with herself.
Linda.
The *fuck*.
Does she legitimately hate Sal to the point she’ll only let her paranoia go when a “properly” good egg like Danny accompanies Sal? Is her own daughter an existential threat just by Sal being herself?
It’s like my dad shouting at me because I wanted to put crackers in my chili in a circle pattern (guess he thought it was too childish). As if I was threatening some moral authority. Over *crackers*. There’s no justification for this level of antagonism.
That sounds like a fun thing. Must try it with my next bowl of chili.
there’s this twitter thread that stuck with me, let me copy-paste
teaboot: Haters (my dad) can’t stand to see a bad bongo (me, nine years old) winning (“drawing too loud”)
gildedproblems: How do you draw too loud?
teaboot: Well you see the thing is that child abuse is inherently irrational
Gee, Linds, maybe stop treating it ss a conflict you have to “win?”
I dunno Linda, maybe you’d “win” if you weren’t being actively awful
Linda getting aggressive in a normal social interaction with her daughter and complaining about how she can’t “win”.
Yeah, that’s super healthy.
“What the fuck? I just walked up to this guy and started beating his ass when he asked me if I was getting on the same bus as him, why am I being treated like the Bad Guy here?”
Because he had the gall to presume that he was on the same level as a Winner?
projection is like a superpower that’s its own kryptonite
Like the Weeping Angels’ quantum lock, it renders the users among the loneliest creatures in the universe.
i’d never be able to have a kid, money and social status and complications aside i’d be too afraid even accidentally saying something that’d fuck up their psyche as opposed to just having a dog lol
i can’t imagine being a hormonal teen with more broken friendships and such with ppl lashing out/projecting/taking your anger on your friends, let alone dealing with a family who’s like that constantly
there’s the pot calling the kettle psychoactive
Sal is the one still calm and in control. Her mom seems to have just been holding back and waiting.
I honestly love scenes where one character is behaving like a rabid balverine and the other is being completely casual. Linda sees her daughter and immediately gets furious, Sal sees her mom and immediately gets exhausted, it’s very realistic writing.
It doesn’t apply here, but that’s also kind of the game edgelord trolls play, “I’m not the one who’s angry” sort-of-thing.
THIS. Linda is literally a 4chan fucker.
lol ppl say ‘ don’t feed the trolls’ but i’m sure there’s some good ppl with alt/backup accounts that’d ‘engage’ with trolls and argue with them while being calm if only to stop them from spreading vitriol towards undeserving ppl
she totally deserves to hit up carla and get high on the roof together or so
Linda – You are her PARENT. You aren’t supposed to be trying to ‘win’. You are supposed to be helping her become a responsible adult. You know, the type that doesn’t want to ‘win’ against her kids . . . .
“Remember, only YOU can break the cycle of inter-generational trauma.” 🫵
@NG: Lol luckily this isn’t one of those ironic tragedies where Linda would die, but literally get reincarnated as sal’s next child lol
Or even a kid who’s on the grandparents side/similar to them (grandparents spoiling their grand kids is the norm/fine once in a while, but i can imagine some ppl that had complex/bad relationships with their parents feel bitter if their kid got stuff from the grandparents that they were never allowed to have/do when they were little)
Sal should just say, “Okay, I guess we’re done here, then,” turn around, and walk away.
Would be for the best but also equally entertaining if she went to the same place, same table or not and either passive aggressive sniping at each other for the next 30 mins if not just straight up the silent treatment
my fucking god, sal is an absolute saint
I’ve had conversations like this with my mum. Different issues, but similar sort of. what are you doing tho.
no idea where else to put this, but I’m seeing random, completely innocuous comments where, instead of the “Flag” option, it says “Moderated” but otherwise everything is the same… curious?
That indicates a new commenter that I have approved.
oh, ok
I don’t have a running list of every handle here to keep track or anything
I… this feels… very familiar. Completely different in the specifics, yet… hauntingly familiar.