Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then shovest thou thy Joey Bang Brigade of Rosenthal towards thy door, and, being naughty in My sight, shall stuff it.
Oh, it’s absolutely true! Once you turn 18, they dip you in carbonite so that you can never change. I’m pretty sure it’s in the Constitution somewhere. It’s right next to the part where it says that rich people can pick & choose what laws they obey or disregard. (just like American Christianity lets you pick & choose the parts of the Bible you obey or ignore!)
I hope that’s a joke/sarcasm because I have changed more in my late 20s/early 30s so far than I had as a teenager. I may not be a fan of Joe and I think changing for someone else is usually doomed to fail, you really have to want to change for you.
which is why I feel its good to acknowledge that while he does want to be better for Joyce, Joe was already changing just as a result of everything that happened in the first semester. Because of this, I feel he is more likely to reach a stage where he is entirely different than the Joe who first walked into the school. (a “better person” is desired in this change, but we shall see)
Though a lot of that was because of Joyce as well.
And his attraction to her played a big role even as early as the aftermath of the list being revealed. It was just masked by him fearing he couldn’t change enough to not hurt her.
I think they’re wrong though. Joe isn’t changing FOR Joyce but he is changing in part BECAUSE of Joyce.
Joe was changing long before he realized his feelings for her. Before he even HAD those feelings. He couldn’t have developed those feelings without having changed, at least a little, to begin with. He to had become the kind of person who COULD fall in love.
Changing? A lot? that’s what people do at this age. It’s what they’re supposed to do. You learn who you are and what you want and what actually matters to you. Who you want to be and what you have to do to get there.
Joe changed for a lot of reasons. He’s been forced, time and time again, to confront his behavior and understand how it hurts people. He’s grown to see it doesn’t make him feel happy or fulfilled either. He’s seen the end result of said behavior (his father) but he’s also seen his father, even at the late stage he’s in, TRY and change too! Whether he actually has remains to be seen but he’s watching his father also want to be a better person. And yes, Joyce. Seeing her growing and changing so much right in front of him and developing an actual friendship with her that (at the time) no expectation of sex or romance between the two of them.
That being said, at some point Joe and Joyce are going to have to address how this works, that you don’t change ‘for’ a person and it’s unhealthy to expect that, but Joyce is also right. Change is slow and gradual. People make mistakes. And also Sarah IS very cute and pretty.
I think it’s true that people don’t change, but I also believe that they do find new aspects of themselves from time to time which can affect their priorities.
People change all the time. What you can’t do is change other people. People can only change themselves, and they usually have to be self motivated to want to change for their own reasons. Changing yourself for another person, even it it’s good change, generally doesn’t stick.
I don’t support this ship, but I do remember high fiving with a couple of my friends in high school when we learned that two people we really didn’t like had started dating each other– because that meant that now they could just bother each other and not the people we actually cared about. So, like. I get it.
It was getting close to the end of senior year by this point, so maybe it did, but I wasn’t close enough to either of them to keep tabs on them to know for sure.
Actually I think it’s probably like 5 now. Remember that time she was walking with the group and commented about how black they were? That was like a week ago.
It’s the sort of thing that’s not necessarily weird to think, but saying it out loud to the actual Black people present is not cool. Joyce, they’re just trying to live their lives, don’t randomly tell them they are Learning Experiences for white girls
We could argue that Joyce is a character in a comic that doesn’t typically use thought bubbles, but I think the fact that she said it out loud and made her friends’ day a tiny bit worse is supposed to be a sign that she still makes mistakes
No I’m referring to that. The “new friends” term is very generous to Lucy at that point in time. The only person she’d spent any significant time with by then was Walky. That’s why Sarah said she was only there to bang him. She wasn’t invited to the Halloween party, she wasn’t invited to Becky’s mom’s birthday. She tagged along with Walky to the RA floor meeting, which he wasn’t even supposed to be at. She had only introduced herself to Joyce once and had legitimately spent more time with Carla. She only really knew Walky and Jennifer yet she switched classes specifically to attach herself to a group of people she desired to hang with. Innocent enough, but also slightly manipulative which is not always a malicious action mind you. It makes Lucy clever and maybe not as naive as she presents herself as.
1) I’m in software so I use math by telling a computer to do it via a series of instructions that will probably take me 5x as long to write as it will save vs just doing the math myself.
Yo! I remember math blaster. It reminds me of my days in middle school learning typing from Mavis Beacon on those Imac computers with the different colored back humps. Jumps scare a gen z by showing them what an Imac CRT computer looked like!
Hehehe, same here for software maths, as I code games for work!
Right now, I am using calculus to determine how mobile gestures like dragging and flicking should work on a GUI I’m coding, essential for a cross-platform physics puzzle game 😉
1) I work at a call center, fot customer service. So I have to use math on almost every call. Usually for something related to pricing.
2) EcoQuest 1 & 2. They’re old point & click adventure games by Sierra. Their main point was about teaching and raising awareness in pollution and the environment.
What was my favorite educational game back in the ’50s? too long ago. Don’t remember educational games. i remember one I hated. In third grade we had “workbooks” that sometimes involved cutting out little bits of paper and gluing them to other paper. I hated that. Mine never came out right.
1. I work in a school, so I use math to teach kids math. Outside of work, I recently used the Pythagorean theorem to help work out the dimensions of some ceramic bookends I was making.
2. There was a computer game to go along with the PBS cartoon Liberty’s Kids, about the American Revolution. The game was about those historic events and also about selecting good sources and quotes for the “newspaper article” you’d publish for each event.
1. Crochet requires some irritating mathematics. Most of my crafts require some level of mathematics. I am not good at maths.
2. Zoombinis and Clue Finders 1000%
1) As a subtitler there are times when i have to convert a subtitle file from some obscure format into one that i can use. If i can’t find a converter online i’ll often fix up a spreadsheet with convoluted regex and formulas to extract the relevant timing info. Itdoesnt usually require math so much as math-adjacent rigour. It’s fun..?
2) I remember playing the Rayman Spanish learning game on PC as a kid. I was really into it for a bit. Turns out i was always a language nerd 😙
1) I handle our finances for the household and code for funsies on the side, but the big thing that has been super cost-effective is the architectural design adjacent stuff I learned in a computer class. So basic arithmetic, algebra and a bit of whatever that last thing counts as.
2) Math Blaster: In Search of Spot and Outnumbered.
Other than that second panel, Joyce is right, but oof that second panel. No. Sarah can and SHOULD fault Joe for that. She should not have had to scream at him for him to back off and Joyce you should know that by now.
I’m not talking about last strip, where neither of them were serious. I’m talking about way earlier in the strip when Joe was ‘hunting’ for women and would not stop sniffing around until Sarah screamed at him.
That would be a lot less shitty than Joyce going ‘Sure he wouldn’t leave you alone before until you screamed at him but you’re CUTE and PRETTY so you can’t blame him’ for sure. It’s the word initially that made me think of those first meetings.
I’m still a little confused. My recollection is that Joe (indirectly) propositioned Sarah once and then backed off when she loudly stated her opposition. It’s not like he repeatedly ignored Sarah’s rejections, she’s just always yelling at people
I know it’s played up for comedic reasons, but I still really wish we’d gotten to see “old Joe” handle rejections that weren’t delivered as firmly as Sarah’s. Or Rachel’s. Or Joyce and Mike’s.
He vaguely implied he found Sarah hot and she yelled at him about it. He didn’t hound her in any way at all. This is a myth the comment section keeps perpetuating because someone said it and no one ever looked it up.
I’m not saying Joe is a winner, or not a total fucking dog for some of the things he’s said and done, but can we please not keep acting like he’s a sex predator for asking once and accepting that Sarah wasn’t interested despite his own interest in her? He’s gross, but he wasn’t pushy.
He likes consensual sex and has literally never pushed at someone after they said no (that I could find, I welcome any link suggesting he did so). Be angry at him for what actually happened.
Never mind, I saw what you said on Patreon and I’m done responding to you. You’ve been rude and hostile not just to me but to other people on the board over WEBCOMIC OPINIONS and I’m too old to engage with someone who’s behaving like a petulant adolescent.
Probably right, in this specific case, but lets be frank here, “yes he’s a serial philanderer but he really cares about me and I can change him” is going to go horribly wrong nine times out of ten.
Sarah’s being too cynical, but not by that much, given what she’s seen of Joe.
Wait what? What do you mean screamed at him to back off in this context? She screamed at him that she wants to bang, he said “oh boy” and she slammed the door in his face. When did she scream at him to back off other than “back off of Joyce” which Joyce has expressed she doesn’t want.
That makes sense. I read it as when they were meeting earlier both because of the word initially and because I read Joe as joking last strip and not being serious (which would make Joyce saying that she couldn’t blame him for reacting that way not make sense). Fair enough that that doesn’t seem to be what she meant.
Yeah that 2nd panel is pretty cringey… I guess if her point is she’s cute so she doesn’t fault him for being attracted, fine… maybe? Buuuuuuuut no level of cuteness excuses jumping like that n being ready to cheat on your partner
I don’t think giving Joe as many chances as it takes is the right answer here, either. I guess it depends on what exactly Joyce is willing to call a “chance”. Like Joe straight up cheating isn’t deserving of another chance in my book, but she’s implying she could give him multiple chances because he’s changing.
I mean, I do think Joe is changing. His behavior has gotten a lot less absolutely horrible since his first appearance, but I feel like infinite chances is a bit much
Joyce might sincerely still believe in a pseudo-Christian “always forgive and offer another chance” attitude, but I agree that she’s largely saying “as long as he’s still sincerely trying and making improvements, I’m not going to drop him for a single error” unless it was a serious betrayal.
Joyce’s internal logic actually runs something along the lines of “well, if Sarah propositioned ME, even I’D be tempted, and I’m not even attracted to women (obviously)! So surely I can’t fault Joe for being a LITTLE seduced.”
Joyce is extremely straight and can use this to justify all sorts of things.
I thought Joyce was just buttering Sarah up (the “cute and pretty” part, that is) so she was more receptive and persuasive to her arguments, but it does seem like a genuine compliment.
Relationships become way easier once you drop that “they only need to change” – stuff and start focusing on people who are actually are the way you want your significant other to be. It also has a lower probability of crying because most people don’t really want to change. There’s a difference between wanting to be a changed person and wanting to change.
I don’t think so. I think the list thing forced him to change his behaviour, which is not the same as changing as a person. He still wants to have sex with basically every female that shows an interest in him. Changing as a person would require him to change his perception of women. Like, for example, not rate the appearance of your girlfriend’s mother.
I think there’s several versions of himself that he’s trying out, and he’s most familiar with the one that’s kind of creepy. But his conversations with Amber I think show that’s not quite who he’d like to be.
I mean, you’re allowed to want anything so long as you don’t make it weird for others
it’s the behaviour that has to change like, indeed, the appearance rating thing
If you change just the behaviour, it usually doesn’t last. For a permanent change, you need character grow. That’s why changing a person rarely works: you can’t make someone grow as a person.
sure, but joe already wanted to change; he’s not changing just for joyce
the donut thing and stopping casual hookups didn’t really stick permanently but it’s a start, albeit arguably a false one
changing behaviour is something someone has to practice and I think he wants to
I do still want him to disentangle his root motivations for being Like That though
Seems like you need to take into account that Joe interacted with Joyce in private for months before they started hanging out together in public. His behaviour when she was involved was always different from his usual routine.
Always? Including the part where he invited her on that date?
Pretty sure he’s in love with her. That’s not exactly a character chance, that’s a different setting than before
Honestly, “As many as it takes” is… a bit of a bad idea in relationships. Not calling for instant dumping or anything, but she should, after getting Sarah to climb all the way out of her butthole, talk to Joe and set some real boundaries and expectations. “Look, don’t touch” is a reasonable one at this point, I’d say. Make it clear that there can and will be consequences for violating those boundaries, and check to make sure he’s on board with it.
I’m honestly not sold on the idea that Joyce necessarily wants a closed relationship at this point. She’s shuffling a lot of ideas in her head simultaneously, and one of them that keeps creeping up into her discussions is “ladies are hot and I’m kind of in love with Dorothy” – though she hasn’t verbally acknowledged that idea, and seemingly hasn’t actively worked it through herself.
But there’s a possibility that she’s testing the idea of throwing away the concept of jealousy in a relationship… possibly to leave herself room to explore later.
Do I think she’d mentally acknowledge that’s what she’s doing? Probably not, but who knows how much thought she’s gone through, and what ideas she’s absorbed from private Internet research, or at a minimum, from reading Amber’s fanfics.
I don’t agree that Joyce is thinking in those terms, but more importantly I think it would be really bad for Joe to take that route. Maybe he could eventually end up in some poly relationship, but he’s got to learn to relationship first. I don’t think carrying on as he has been while also dating Joyce is a good way for him to make the changes he’s wanted to make.
Yeah, i like this read. Joyce seems impressively chill about things at this moment and i love that about her, but infinite chances for a romantic partner is probably still too many. Still, i think all the change she has already seen from Joe is part of what makes her feel the chances are warranted. And I really hope they get to have these talks, too. What a concept
If anyone tries to “make it clear that there can and will be consequences” on a first date, I’m stuffing all the breadsticks in my purse and getting outta there as fast as I can.
Normally I’d agree, but they’re really not in first date territory here, even if they haven’t really had a date. She knows him well and knows his history
We could be best friends in the world. If we start a relationship, and on day one, or two, or three, or fifty, or five thousand, you threaten me, I’m out of there.
Maybe we’re talking different things here. I’m thinking the boundaries are things like “monogamy” and the consequences are “I’m out of here”. If that’s out of line in your point of view, it’s probably best we part. Probably good to get it settled up front.
If you’ve already got history though, like these two do, I don’t think “I expect monogamy” is a unreasonable bound to set early on. Certainly not fun to discover later on you had different expectations there.
It is a bad idea in general, but I think it’s more or less the only thing she can say to Sarah, whose response to anything less would be “oh so it’s finite then I’m gonna make it a goal to see them burned away”.
“Character development? Impossible. Now if you excuse me I have to continue being rude to Lucy, which will have absolutely no consequences for me at all.”
I could dissect the parts of Joyce’s speech that are not quite right, but I’m not going to. Those are less important to me than the fact that she’s being Maximum Joyce right now in a way that’s magnificent
It’s not that I ship them, but I support Joyce here because I feel like it helps you grow as a person to date someone who isn’t 100% perfect for you, even if the only thing you gain from it long-term is to realize your standards have improved. Joe is into her, isn’t inclined to try and convert her to a different religion, understands consent, and is able to provide orgasms, so he’s not the worst option for this.
Joe is also trying to become a better person, so that also appeals to Joyce’s redemption instinct (which may or may not also be something of a kink, but it’s definitely from her upbringing); Joe may or may not work out, but it can still help her notice this part of her and whether she wants to encourage it.
I really don’t think Joe is trying; he’s discovering that he is more than he thought. Like Dorothy Gale’s companions, he already had what he thought he was lacking and only needed to find it.
Personal growth is a bit of both, in my experience. You cannot create something that was never there before. You pick aspects of yourself you want to encourage, explore that, build habits, and see where you can take it.
I think most of us support Joe & Joyce here, but I can definitely see Sarah’s pov here too. She hasn’t seen any of Joe’s growth, so she’s got little reason to think he’s not still trying to “fix Joyce with his penis” and just playing her with his talk of change.
Especially with his reaction last strip.
I feel like it may be more of a joke because Joyce did have a reasonable, well considered response that appealed to both Sarah’s logic and empathy, and it’s deflated Sarah a bit.
If I had to guess, it’s might be due to their past interactions, like the only one I can think of off the top of my head is when Joyce yelled “you just wanna get rid of Becky like you did Dana” at Sarah, maybe someone with more time than me can comb through to find two more instances of Joyce saying something that actually hurts Sarah’s feelings. Otherwise, it might be general stuff that Joyce has done wrong such as trying to date Ethan to help him be straight and trying to break up Jacob and Raidah.
It definitely gave me the warm fuzzies that neither of them had discussed this before now, but Joyce quietly observed the change in his character and had faith in him, enough to accept the hiccup in yesterday’s strip.
I like the inversion here of Sarah, who believes herself to be so much more mature than everyone else and far above childish drama, acting with so much impudence and pettiness whereas Joyce, who’s typically treated as overreactive and melodramatic, being the more level-headed one. I think it’s a reflection of how much Joyce has grown and how much Sarah has fought growing because it requires a level of vulnerability she isn’t comfortable displaying
so like are any of the people invested in this relationship gonna convince joe go to therapy about his parent’s divorce and his dad’s philandering specifically
because that’s what it’s gonna take if we’re being real
Ayyy, there goes Joyce with the cuttingly perceptive recognition that she’s been a huge bongo and rude and thoughtless and selfish in the past, and the Sarah/Joyce relationship has been laced with “give me a chance and I will forgive you, every time.” She’s extending that to Joe because she’s kind and believes in him!
Oh forgot. Not that I expect anyone to care but I did put this information out there and I feel a compulsive need to correct it; school basically gave everyone that flunked last semester a second chance due to the growing pains of readjusting to in person learning. So I did NOT flunk out of college, whoo!
happy anniversary everyone!
13 years ago i was alone in a new dorm room reading QC and clicked a link over here.
I was in a weird slump at the moment but right about then a lot of stuff was about to happen and a lot has happened since.
I can understand Sarah’s concern. A person who says she’s ready to give chances and forgive so much, gives you the impression of someone who will end up being used by many evil people.
And yet, Joyce has shown quite clearly that she does not tolerate evil behavior. She has provable boundaries, and her forgiveness is not in fact infinite. She’s just willing to see, understand, and accept mistakes as such. One error error isn’t enough for her to curse someone in her sight for all time, particularly in this case, when Joe has been proving consistently that he DOES care and IS trying to be a good dude.
Joyce takes steps to change for the better
Fandom: We love you
Joe takes steps to change for the better
Fandom: We hate you
Sarah is essentially female Mike
Fandom: You’re perfect
This take is pretty danged stale, I don’t think you followed the recipe either?
From what I’ve seen in these comments, at least half of the people here think Joe’s been making good progress but he has a lot to work with. That sounds like investment and enjoyment of a character to me.
Likewise, though it’s a bit more divided, most people acknowledge Sarah’s behaviour is difficult and overstepping – the difference in opinion tends to be whether that makes her insufferable or whether it doesn’t remove her worth as a person and her validity as part of the main cast and one of Joyce’s close friends.
Most people understand where Sarah is coming from, which is likely from prior sour interactions other people that natively makes her more suspicious and prickly.
Mike was mostly two dimensional until it came time to redeem him, and this is wild having seen Mike go through multiple of these arcs that he typically starts out two dimensional and then either dies heroically or finds a niche and is allowed to evolve a bit, in fairness probably both. Sarah has always been a multifaceted character who struggles to trust others, she says stuff that is likely to have some truth but is painful, because she has not benefited from excess optimism and pageantry, and especially not from those who use it. She isn’t quite as bad as the “I’m just brutally honest” crowd, she is almost always operating with protecting someone in mind, whether that’s Joyce or Liz or herself. Raidah has destroyed her socially and despite time passing, still clearly intends to ensure she has no close friends of any status, which given Raidah’s motivations so far is likely because she’s trying to weed out competition for future career prospects, as Sarah is intelligent and studious and is already managing to attend university on a scholarship her academic achievements earned her, more than actual care or concern for Sarah’s old roommate.
Anyway, most people in these comments aren’t wilfully reducing the complexity, progress, or inherent worth of the characters, or that of the other real people here invested in their progress.
I’m going to revise my take on Mike’s death. The most frustrating thing about it is that now random other characters get labeled the X Mike, whether that’s “female” or “new” or “replacement” or whatever.
i like that she’s being compassionate but she does have the right to be mad. BUT also as a sometime joyce/sarah shipper i like the whole ‘who can blame him you’re hot’ argument, so who can say
Hey All,
I have nothing deep to say but recently fount this strip and liked it. I just got caught up on it and it makes me want to go back to school all over again!
I do agree with Joyce here.
Although i do think it’s important to only give people chances if you aren’t being abused. Making mistakes is okay, hurting people sucks, but harming people thoroughly is not something you should keep giving people chances for. is it easy to tell while you’re in it? absolutely not.
So, i think, giving people chances is worth it if you see them really trying to get better and they recognize and try to rectify their mistakes.
I just want to say, minutes before the next comic is posted, that a quick ctrl-f search of the comments doesn’t turn up a SINGLE “seventy times seven” comment.
I’m disappointed in you all.
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Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then shovest thou thy Joey Bang Brigade of Rosenthal towards thy door, and, being naughty in My sight, shall stuff it.
also, absolutely NO ONE changes once they’re like 18-19 lol
I don’t know about that.
Oh, it’s absolutely true! Once you turn 18, they dip you in carbonite so that you can never change. I’m pretty sure it’s in the Constitution somewhere. It’s right next to the part where it says that rich people can pick & choose what laws they obey or disregard. (just like American Christianity lets you pick & choose the parts of the Bible you obey or ignore!)
Sarcasm?
I was typing it in this voice
I hope that’s a joke/sarcasm because I have changed more in my late 20s/early 30s so far than I had as a teenager. I may not be a fan of Joe and I think changing for someone else is usually doomed to fail, you really have to want to change for you.
which is why I feel its good to acknowledge that while he does want to be better for Joyce, Joe was already changing just as a result of everything that happened in the first semester. Because of this, I feel he is more likely to reach a stage where he is entirely different than the Joe who first walked into the school. (a “better person” is desired in this change, but we shall see)
Though a lot of that was because of Joyce as well.
And his attraction to her played a big role even as early as the aftermath of the list being revealed. It was just masked by him fearing he couldn’t change enough to not hurt her.
I think they’re wrong though. Joe isn’t changing FOR Joyce but he is changing in part BECAUSE of Joyce.
Joe was changing long before he realized his feelings for her. Before he even HAD those feelings. He couldn’t have developed those feelings without having changed, at least a little, to begin with. He to had become the kind of person who COULD fall in love.
Changing? A lot? that’s what people do at this age. It’s what they’re supposed to do. You learn who you are and what you want and what actually matters to you. Who you want to be and what you have to do to get there.
Joe changed for a lot of reasons. He’s been forced, time and time again, to confront his behavior and understand how it hurts people. He’s grown to see it doesn’t make him feel happy or fulfilled either. He’s seen the end result of said behavior (his father) but he’s also seen his father, even at the late stage he’s in, TRY and change too! Whether he actually has remains to be seen but he’s watching his father also want to be a better person. And yes, Joyce. Seeing her growing and changing so much right in front of him and developing an actual friendship with her that (at the time) no expectation of sex or romance between the two of them.
That being said, at some point Joe and Joyce are going to have to address how this works, that you don’t change ‘for’ a person and it’s unhealthy to expect that, but Joyce is also right. Change is slow and gradual. People make mistakes. And also Sarah IS very cute and pretty.
I am not the guy I was when I was 18, thank Grodd.
I think it’s true that people don’t change, but I also believe that they do find new aspects of themselves from time to time which can affect their priorities.
That’s a kind of changing.
People change all the time. What you can’t do is change other people. People can only change themselves, and they usually have to be self motivated to want to change for their own reasons. Changing yourself for another person, even it it’s good change, generally doesn’t stick.
Being naughty in one’s sight is an excellent euphemism
Amen.
Sarah: “And this incident counts as number four, so…” (fetches baseball bat)
Happy anniversary! As of today, the first Dumbing of Age strip is 13 years old, exactly the same age as the first Roomies! strip was when the first Dumbing of Age strip was published. Have fun with this knowledge
🥳 🎉 🪅 🎊 happy Bat Mitzpha Dumming of Age!
*Dumbing of Age
*mitzvah
*Bar
Is Dumbing of Age a boy?
*Bat
Only feels like yesterday they were talking about inaugural poops.
In five years, DoA will be older than its principal cast!
wow, time flies
I’m just on Sarah’s side here. I really don’t like joe
But I also don’t like Lucy. So I’m going to start shipping Joe and Lucy instead
I can see absolutely no reason to ship those two, except that you could pronounce the pairing name “juicy”.
Good enough for me.
Honestly, this is more reason than some people give.
Well, now I have TWO reasons
Three if we include how unreasonably cute they are as individuals. V.V
Oh man.. that is a compelling argument.
I don’t support this ship, but I do remember high fiving with a couple of my friends in high school when we learned that two people we really didn’t like had started dating each other– because that meant that now they could just bother each other and not the people we actually cared about. So, like. I get it.
That didn’t ironically and comedically backfire by them joining forces and multiplying their power did it?
It was getting close to the end of senior year by this point, so maybe it did, but I wasn’t close enough to either of them to keep tabs on them to know for sure.
NO I DON’T NEED DOUBLE LUCY AND JOE.
I TAKE IT BACK
Actually I think it’s probably like 5 now. Remember that time she was walking with the group and commented about how black they were? That was like a week ago.
Oh god, I remember that. Lucy, Walky, Sarah, I think Sal also? Like this was right before the Walkerton Jump Scare, right?
It was a little earlier than that actually. First day Lucy joined the group. Isn’t Joyce still so adorably problematic?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/overfriendly/
You know in retrospect that reveals a bit of subtle manipulation on Lucy’s end but that’s discourse for another day and another strip.
I like the “not raised in a cornfield” qualifier at the end…
Is that still problematic or more at least partly self-aware commentary on how problematic she used to be?
It’s the sort of thing that’s not necessarily weird to think, but saying it out loud to the actual Black people present is not cool. Joyce, they’re just trying to live their lives, don’t randomly tell them they are Learning Experiences for white girls
We could argue that Joyce is a character in a comic that doesn’t typically use thought bubbles, but I think the fact that she said it out loud and made her friends’ day a tiny bit worse is supposed to be a sign that she still makes mistakes
I don’t think registering for the same class as your new friends counts as subtle manipulation. Unless you’re referring to something else
No I’m referring to that. The “new friends” term is very generous to Lucy at that point in time. The only person she’d spent any significant time with by then was Walky. That’s why Sarah said she was only there to bang him. She wasn’t invited to the Halloween party, she wasn’t invited to Becky’s mom’s birthday. She tagged along with Walky to the RA floor meeting, which he wasn’t even supposed to be at. She had only introduced herself to Joyce once and had legitimately spent more time with Carla. She only really knew Walky and Jennifer yet she switched classes specifically to attach herself to a group of people she desired to hang with. Innocent enough, but also slightly manipulative which is not always a malicious action mind you. It makes Lucy clever and maybe not as naive as she presents herself as.
Happy Anniversary Dumbing of Age!!!!
Now, how to celebrate…
Reading everything from the start again?
I do that every time a new book arrives, because it’s been so long I can’t remember the story coherently.
In DoA math, three Sarah chances are worth ten Joyce chances.
Ooo speaking of which, how’s for another game if anyone is up for it?
1. What are some ways you use math at work or on the day to day?
2. What was your favorite educational game as a kid, if you’ve ever played one?
1) I’m in software so I use math by telling a computer to do it via a series of instructions that will probably take me 5x as long to write as it will save vs just doing the math myself.
2) Math Blaster, ironically.
Yo! I remember math blaster. It reminds me of my days in middle school learning typing from Mavis Beacon on those Imac computers with the different colored back humps. Jumps scare a gen z by showing them what an Imac CRT computer looked like!
Hehehe, same here for software maths, as I code games for work!
Right now, I am using calculus to determine how mobile gestures like dragging and flicking should work on a GUI I’m coding, essential for a cross-platform physics puzzle game 😉
1) I work at a call center, fot customer service. So I have to use math on almost every call. Usually for something related to pricing.
2) EcoQuest 1 & 2. They’re old point & click adventure games by Sierra. Their main point was about teaching and raising awareness in pollution and the environment.
What was my favorite educational game back in the ’50s? too long ago. Don’t remember educational games. i remember one I hated. In third grade we had “workbooks” that sometimes involved cutting out little bits of paper and gluing them to other paper. I hated that. Mine never came out right.
1. I work in a school, so I use math to teach kids math. Outside of work, I recently used the Pythagorean theorem to help work out the dimensions of some ceramic bookends I was making.
2. There was a computer game to go along with the PBS cartoon Liberty’s Kids, about the American Revolution. The game was about those historic events and also about selecting good sources and quotes for the “newspaper article” you’d publish for each event.
1. Crochet requires some irritating mathematics. Most of my crafts require some level of mathematics. I am not good at maths.
2. Zoombinis and Clue Finders 1000%
1) I play D&D.
2) I don’t remember what they were called but I loved the games my elementary school had on their computers.
“Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?” was a good one 🙂 Puzzles are fun!
1) I use math when playing games(mostly RPG’s) to figure out how much grinding I need to do for top tier equipment and items.
2) Sonic’s Schoolhouse
1) As a subtitler there are times when i have to convert a subtitle file from some obscure format into one that i can use. If i can’t find a converter online i’ll often fix up a spreadsheet with convoluted regex and formulas to extract the relevant timing info. Itdoesnt usually require math so much as math-adjacent rigour. It’s fun..?
2) I remember playing the Rayman Spanish learning game on PC as a kid. I was really into it for a bit. Turns out i was always a language nerd 😙
1) Most generally, mathematics is the science of patterns and relationships. And yes, it’s fun!
1. I don’t, really. It’s pretty mindless, honestly.
2. Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing. What can I say? Shit works. May not be the most fun, but it was super effective.
1) Dunno. It’s too deeply embedded in everything we do.
2) Hard to choose: TOPS-10, DOS/360 or the 1620 FORTRAN compiler.
I remember installing edgames for my kids. I don’t recall any from the time of my own childhood.
1) I handle our finances for the household and code for funsies on the side, but the big thing that has been super cost-effective is the architectural design adjacent stuff I learned in a computer class. So basic arithmetic, algebra and a bit of whatever that last thing counts as.
2) Math Blaster: In Search of Spot and Outnumbered.
Other than that second panel, Joyce is right, but oof that second panel. No. Sarah can and SHOULD fault Joe for that. She should not have had to scream at him for him to back off and Joyce you should know that by now.
Yes, though it’s also generally considered poor practice to randomly proposition people for weird purposes.
I’m not talking about last strip, where neither of them were serious. I’m talking about way earlier in the strip when Joe was ‘hunting’ for women and would not stop sniffing around until Sarah screamed at him.
But Joyce *is* talking about that strip.
Bingo.
That would be a lot less shitty than Joyce going ‘Sure he wouldn’t leave you alone before until you screamed at him but you’re CUTE and PRETTY so you can’t blame him’ for sure. It’s the word initially that made me think of those first meetings.
I’m still a little confused. My recollection is that Joe (indirectly) propositioned Sarah once and then backed off when she loudly stated her opposition. It’s not like he repeatedly ignored Sarah’s rejections, she’s just always yelling at people
He’s done it a few times but it’s not what they’re talking about here.
I know it’s played up for comedic reasons, but I still really wish we’d gotten to see “old Joe” handle rejections that weren’t delivered as firmly as Sarah’s. Or Rachel’s. Or Joyce and Mike’s.
He vaguely implied he found Sarah hot and she yelled at him about it. He didn’t hound her in any way at all. This is a myth the comment section keeps perpetuating because someone said it and no one ever looked it up.
relevant comics:
Joe implying he finds Sarah hot: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/chaps/
Sarah’s immediate reaction followed by Joe immediately accepting the rejection: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/harness/
The next thing Joe says about Sarah being hot is both NOT hitting on her and STILL accepting the rejection she gave him: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/participate/
This is right after the List situation, where he tried to strike up a conversation with her in the most banal way possible and, again, isn’t hitting on her though she is shouting at him: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/pua/
This is him pointing out that what Sarah is doing with Joyce/Jacob is fucked up: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/respecting/
I’m not saying Joe is a winner, or not a total fucking dog for some of the things he’s said and done, but can we please not keep acting like he’s a sex predator for asking once and accepting that Sarah wasn’t interested despite his own interest in her? He’s gross, but he wasn’t pushy.
He likes consensual sex and has literally never pushed at someone after they said no (that I could find, I welcome any link suggesting he did so). Be angry at him for what actually happened.
Yeah, Joyce hasn’t had that bit of programming properly challenged yet, as far as I can recall.
?
Never mind, I saw what you said on Patreon and I’m done responding to you. You’ve been rude and hostile not just to me but to other people on the board over WEBCOMIC OPINIONS and I’m too old to engage with someone who’s behaving like a petulant adolescent.
Grow up.
Okay, child.
Probably right, in this specific case, but lets be frank here, “yes he’s a serial philanderer but he really cares about me and I can change him” is going to go horribly wrong nine times out of ten.
Sarah’s being too cynical, but not by that much, given what she’s seen of Joe.
Wait what? What do you mean screamed at him to back off in this context? She screamed at him that she wants to bang, he said “oh boy” and she slammed the door in his face. When did she scream at him to back off other than “back off of Joyce” which Joyce has expressed she doesn’t want.
I’m not talking about the last strip, I’m talking about back when she and Joe first met.
Yeah, that’s not what Joyce’s “initially” is referring to here. She’s talking about his in the moment response from one moment ago.
That makes sense. I read it as when they were meeting earlier both because of the word initially and because I read Joe as joking last strip and not being serious (which would make Joyce saying that she couldn’t blame him for reacting that way not make sense). Fair enough that that doesn’t seem to be what she meant.
I had also read Joe as (maybe) joking yesterday, but after reading today’s strip, I no longer felt that was the case.
Makes sense.
Yeah that 2nd panel is pretty cringey… I guess if her point is she’s cute so she doesn’t fault him for being attracted, fine… maybe? Buuuuuuuut no level of cuteness excuses jumping like that n being ready to cheat on your partner
Fully committing to “Redemption is a story,” got it.
I don’t think giving Joe as many chances as it takes is the right answer here, either. I guess it depends on what exactly Joyce is willing to call a “chance”. Like Joe straight up cheating isn’t deserving of another chance in my book, but she’s implying she could give him multiple chances because he’s changing.
I mean, I do think Joe is changing. His behavior has gotten a lot less absolutely horrible since his first appearance, but I feel like infinite chances is a bit much
Joyce might sincerely still believe in a pseudo-Christian “always forgive and offer another chance” attitude, but I agree that she’s largely saying “as long as he’s still sincerely trying and making improvements, I’m not going to drop him for a single error” unless it was a serious betrayal.
Joyce’s internal logic actually runs something along the lines of “well, if Sarah propositioned ME, even I’D be tempted, and I’m not even attracted to women (obviously)! So surely I can’t fault Joe for being a LITTLE seduced.”
Joyce is extremely straight and can use this to justify all sorts of things.
I’m glad Joyce is acknowledging the parallel
https://imgur.com/a/SBACXLz
Funny how this was actually closer to this comic than I anticipated.
Seriously. Also, weirdly could kind of see this?
Love the comic as always, Yotome.
Also love the sentiment.
Now it’s hard not to read this comic as Joyce continuing her subtle slide into fully realized bisexuality.
this is definitely the ot3 for me
That was so hot I wish it could be canon.
Hahahaha
God dude you draw Sarah so hot.
That made me really happy to read, thank you.
Happy 13th Willis!!! ♡☆♡☆♡
Sarah needs a number so she can know how many times to sabotage Joe
As many as it takes.
I feel like that’s way more likely to end up with Joyce cutting her off than Joe.
I like that the first reaction is kind of, “You are attractive, propositioning him for sex… he is not made of stone…”
That is surprisingly funny to me.
It’s a weird compliment sandwich of “I disagree with you on the grounds that you’re hot as fuck.”
I thought Joyce was just buttering Sarah up (the “cute and pretty” part, that is) so she was more receptive and persuasive to her arguments, but it does seem like a genuine compliment.
“Had your suggestion been a threesome I would have at least considered it.”
Relationships become way easier once you drop that “they only need to change” – stuff and start focusing on people who are actually are the way you want your significant other to be. It also has a lower probability of crying because most people don’t really want to change. There’s a difference between wanting to be a changed person and wanting to change.
The thing is that Joe has actually already changed a good bit. He was not and is not changing for Joyce, but he thinks he is.
I don’t think so. I think the list thing forced him to change his behaviour, which is not the same as changing as a person. He still wants to have sex with basically every female that shows an interest in him. Changing as a person would require him to change his perception of women. Like, for example, not rate the appearance of your girlfriend’s mother.
I think there’s several versions of himself that he’s trying out, and he’s most familiar with the one that’s kind of creepy. But his conversations with Amber I think show that’s not quite who he’d like to be.
I mean, you’re allowed to want anything so long as you don’t make it weird for others
it’s the behaviour that has to change like, indeed, the appearance rating thing
If you change just the behaviour, it usually doesn’t last. For a permanent change, you need character grow. That’s why changing a person rarely works: you can’t make someone grow as a person.
sure, but joe already wanted to change; he’s not changing just for joyce
the donut thing and stopping casual hookups didn’t really stick permanently but it’s a start, albeit arguably a false one
changing behaviour is something someone has to practice and I think he wants to
I do still want him to disentangle his root motivations for being Like That though
Seems like you need to take into account that Joe interacted with Joyce in private for months before they started hanging out together in public. His behaviour when she was involved was always different from his usual routine.
Always? Including the part where he invited her on that date?
Pretty sure he’s in love with her. That’s not exactly a character chance, that’s a different setting than before
Honestly, “As many as it takes” is… a bit of a bad idea in relationships. Not calling for instant dumping or anything, but she should, after getting Sarah to climb all the way out of her butthole, talk to Joe and set some real boundaries and expectations. “Look, don’t touch” is a reasonable one at this point, I’d say. Make it clear that there can and will be consequences for violating those boundaries, and check to make sure he’s on board with it.
I like this extra nuance!
I’m honestly not sold on the idea that Joyce necessarily wants a closed relationship at this point. She’s shuffling a lot of ideas in her head simultaneously, and one of them that keeps creeping up into her discussions is “ladies are hot and I’m kind of in love with Dorothy” – though she hasn’t verbally acknowledged that idea, and seemingly hasn’t actively worked it through herself.
But there’s a possibility that she’s testing the idea of throwing away the concept of jealousy in a relationship… possibly to leave herself room to explore later.
Do I think she’d mentally acknowledge that’s what she’s doing? Probably not, but who knows how much thought she’s gone through, and what ideas she’s absorbed from private Internet research, or at a minimum, from reading Amber’s fanfics.
I think you are reading too much and putting your own expectations on the character
I think there may have been a bonus comic preview when she was asking the members of the polycule on the floor how it all worked…
I don’t agree that Joyce is thinking in those terms, but more importantly I think it would be really bad for Joe to take that route. Maybe he could eventually end up in some poly relationship, but he’s got to learn to relationship first. I don’t think carrying on as he has been while also dating Joyce is a good way for him to make the changes he’s wanted to make.
Ooh that’s a plot twist I hadn’t considered.
Yeah, i like this read. Joyce seems impressively chill about things at this moment and i love that about her, but infinite chances for a romantic partner is probably still too many. Still, i think all the change she has already seen from Joe is part of what makes her feel the chances are warranted. And I really hope they get to have these talks, too. What a concept
If anyone tries to “make it clear that there can and will be consequences” on a first date, I’m stuffing all the breadsticks in my purse and getting outta there as fast as I can.
Normally I’d agree, but they’re really not in first date territory here, even if they haven’t really had a date. She knows him well and knows his history
We could be best friends in the world. If we start a relationship, and on day one, or two, or three, or fifty, or five thousand, you threaten me, I’m out of there.
Maybe we’re talking different things here. I’m thinking the boundaries are things like “monogamy” and the consequences are “I’m out of here”. If that’s out of line in your point of view, it’s probably best we part. Probably good to get it settled up front.
Eeek, yes!
These are thing you discover tangentially. It’s less scary for the other person, and more fun.
If you’ve already got history though, like these two do, I don’t think “I expect monogamy” is a unreasonable bound to set early on. Certainly not fun to discover later on you had different expectations there.
In practice, infinite chances turns out to be, usually, single digits. If someone’s really trying, that’s usually enough.
The problem is when someone isn’t trying, then “infinite chances” turn into just infinite opportunity for abuse.
Or you discover that your “infinite chances” really meant “as much as I’m willing to invest.”
It is a bad idea in general, but I think it’s more or less the only thing she can say to Sarah, whose response to anything less would be “oh so it’s finite then I’m gonna make it a goal to see them burned away”.
“Character development? Impossible. Now if you excuse me I have to continue being rude to Lucy, which will have absolutely no consequences for me at all.”
Wow. Nice comeback, Joyce.
happy 13th birthday dumbing of age!! my favorite webcomic that has helped shape who i am <3
I could dissect the parts of Joyce’s speech that are not quite right, but I’m not going to. Those are less important to me than the fact that she’s being Maximum Joyce right now in a way that’s magnificent
That’s so true, she’s maybe being a little naive, but in the best kind of Joyce way.
All these cute and pretty ladies around, and Joyce is with Joe. He’s the Jonathan to her David.
A little ex-vangelical humor for you folks.
More precious than the love of women?
where’s the edit button, I should have said “A little Bi-blical humor for you folks.”
A bi-Biblical
You’re hot, your argument is invalid.
It’s like if the song Jolene was just a friendly conversation between the speaker and her hot friend.
Same song I thought of, including the possible bi subtext.
I’ll gonna use this phrase for everything right now.
Glad Joyce took that in stride and isn’t letting Sarah call the shots for her, but her and Joe are going to need to talk about that later.
Not too long ago, she would’ve said exactly 539 chances.
“Also he told off my mother. The one who bailed out the kidnapper.”
It’s not that I ship them, but I support Joyce here because I feel like it helps you grow as a person to date someone who isn’t 100% perfect for you, even if the only thing you gain from it long-term is to realize your standards have improved. Joe is into her, isn’t inclined to try and convert her to a different religion, understands consent, and is able to provide orgasms, so he’s not the worst option for this.
Joe is also trying to become a better person, so that also appeals to Joyce’s redemption instinct (which may or may not also be something of a kink, but it’s definitely from her upbringing); Joe may or may not work out, but it can still help her notice this part of her and whether she wants to encourage it.
Several people in the cast are trying to be better persons. On reflection that could be why I like this comic.
It could be why I hated Breaking Bad and loved SPOP and MLP and DuckTales 2017
I really don’t think Joe is trying; he’s discovering that he is more than he thought. Like Dorothy Gale’s companions, he already had what he thought he was lacking and only needed to find it.
Personal growth is a bit of both, in my experience. You cannot create something that was never there before. You pick aspects of yourself you want to encourage, explore that, build habits, and see where you can take it.
I think most of us support Joe & Joyce here, but I can definitely see Sarah’s pov here too. She hasn’t seen any of Joe’s growth, so she’s got little reason to think he’s not still trying to “fix Joyce with his penis” and just playing her with his talk of change.
Especially with his reaction last strip.
So wait, this is kind of interesting. What are they talking about? What are the 3 biggest “chances” Sarah gave her?
I feel like it may be more of a joke because Joyce did have a reasonable, well considered response that appealed to both Sarah’s logic and empathy, and it’s deflated Sarah a bit.
Well sure, but Joyce brought it up first. I’m wondering what she means
If I had to guess, it’s might be due to their past interactions, like the only one I can think of off the top of my head is when Joyce yelled “you just wanna get rid of Becky like you did Dana” at Sarah, maybe someone with more time than me can comb through to find two more instances of Joyce saying something that actually hurts Sarah’s feelings. Otherwise, it might be general stuff that Joyce has done wrong such as trying to date Ethan to help him be straight and trying to break up Jacob and Raidah.
Alright I went scrolling and found what I figure might be the ‘three’ times Joyce would have ever misjudged or hurt Sarah’s feelings.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/back/ This one before the fabled Ryan party, the context is Sarah suggested they not go party and Joyce insisted she wanted to.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/bat-2/ A follow up strip not long after, Joyce assumes Sarah hates her guts. This one is a bit more of a stretch, but if I was Sarah it’d hurt my feelings a little.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/healthy/ And the one I mentioned in my post, and probably the main instance of Joyce ever really hurting Sarah’s feelings.
Ok, I gotta issue some HARD respect for this magnitude of diligence
I am glad that the fact of becoming better is a process and not an on/off button, appeared so quickly.
+1
“First of all, Sarah, you are cute and pretty. Who among us can truly say we would react otherwise!”
“In fact if you said the exact same thing to me right now I would also start taking off my shirt.”
If only!!!!
This is almost Mary Worth level of bolding, except the bolding actually makes sense.
So not Mary Worth at all. Convergent evolution!
Just don’t show her your Judas
It definitely gave me the warm fuzzies that neither of them had discussed this before now, but Joyce quietly observed the change in his character and had faith in him, enough to accept the hiccup in yesterday’s strip.
Wait, didn’t at least Joyce pick up the sarcasm in Joe’s answer?
No, because there probably wasn’t any.
I doubt it. It was a very on-the-nose answer.
Biromantic Joyce confirmed once again.
We stan a redemption queen
Joyce is right, but she’s also wrong. I like that.
Smarting of Age: Broyce Jown
Happy birthday Dumbing of Age, and good luck to Joeyce in surviving all this
I like the inversion here of Sarah, who believes herself to be so much more mature than everyone else and far above childish drama, acting with so much impudence and pettiness whereas Joyce, who’s typically treated as overreactive and melodramatic, being the more level-headed one. I think it’s a reflection of how much Joyce has grown and how much Sarah has fought growing because it requires a level of vulnerability she isn’t comfortable displaying
Excellent insight!
I think this may be an instance wherein Joyce can’t just roll a recording from her childhood but has to dig in and apply her values.
It took like 4-5 years of “chances” for my current relationship to fully stabilise. These children are hilariously impatient by comparison.
so like are any of the people invested in this relationship gonna convince joe go to therapy about his parent’s divorce and his dad’s philandering specifically
because that’s what it’s gonna take if we’re being real
Ayyy, there goes Joyce with the cuttingly perceptive recognition that she’s been a huge bongo and rude and thoughtless and selfish in the past, and the Sarah/Joyce relationship has been laced with “give me a chance and I will forgive you, every time.” She’s extending that to Joe because she’s kind and believes in him!
DoA becomes a surly teenager today!
Time for them to enter the purgatory of acne, pants euphoria and the Stanislavski Opinion.
Oh forgot. Not that I expect anyone to care but I did put this information out there and I feel a compulsive need to correct it; school basically gave everyone that flunked last semester a second chance due to the growing pains of readjusting to in person learning. So I did NOT flunk out of college, whoo!
Yay! That’s great.
happy anniversary everyone!
13 years ago i was alone in a new dorm room reading QC and clicked a link over here.
I was in a weird slump at the moment but right about then a lot of stuff was about to happen and a lot has happened since.
I can understand Sarah’s concern. A person who says she’s ready to give chances and forgive so much, gives you the impression of someone who will end up being used by many evil people.
And yet, Joyce has shown quite clearly that she does not tolerate evil behavior. She has provable boundaries, and her forgiveness is not in fact infinite. She’s just willing to see, understand, and accept mistakes as such. One error error isn’t enough for her to curse someone in her sight for all time, particularly in this case, when Joe has been proving consistently that he DOES care and IS trying to be a good dude.
Joyce takes steps to change for the better
Fandom: We love you
Joe takes steps to change for the better
Fandom: We hate you
Sarah is essentially female Mike
Fandom: You’re perfect
You made two of those up.
No, all three are established characters.
This take is pretty danged stale, I don’t think you followed the recipe either?
From what I’ve seen in these comments, at least half of the people here think Joe’s been making good progress but he has a lot to work with. That sounds like investment and enjoyment of a character to me.
Likewise, though it’s a bit more divided, most people acknowledge Sarah’s behaviour is difficult and overstepping – the difference in opinion tends to be whether that makes her insufferable or whether it doesn’t remove her worth as a person and her validity as part of the main cast and one of Joyce’s close friends.
Most people understand where Sarah is coming from, which is likely from prior sour interactions other people that natively makes her more suspicious and prickly.
Mike was mostly two dimensional until it came time to redeem him, and this is wild having seen Mike go through multiple of these arcs that he typically starts out two dimensional and then either dies heroically or finds a niche and is allowed to evolve a bit, in fairness probably both. Sarah has always been a multifaceted character who struggles to trust others, she says stuff that is likely to have some truth but is painful, because she has not benefited from excess optimism and pageantry, and especially not from those who use it. She isn’t quite as bad as the “I’m just brutally honest” crowd, she is almost always operating with protecting someone in mind, whether that’s Joyce or Liz or herself. Raidah has destroyed her socially and despite time passing, still clearly intends to ensure she has no close friends of any status, which given Raidah’s motivations so far is likely because she’s trying to weed out competition for future career prospects, as Sarah is intelligent and studious and is already managing to attend university on a scholarship her academic achievements earned her, more than actual care or concern for Sarah’s old roommate.
Anyway, most people in these comments aren’t wilfully reducing the complexity, progress, or inherent worth of the characters, or that of the other real people here invested in their progress.
I’m going to revise my take on Mike’s death. The most frustrating thing about it is that now random other characters get labeled the X Mike, whether that’s “female” or “new” or “replacement” or whatever.
Oh good, we’re going into this with quotas and strict limits for deeply-personal betrayal. That’s a good sign of healthy relationship planning.
Joyce please you can and should be mad at your bf when he does something stupid
agreed tbf
OMG YES
i like that she’s being compassionate but she does have the right to be mad. BUT also as a sometime joyce/sarah shipper i like the whole ‘who can blame him you’re hot’ argument, so who can say
Hey All,
I have nothing deep to say but recently fount this strip and liked it. I just got caught up on it and it makes me want to go back to school all over again!
I do agree with Joyce here.
Although i do think it’s important to only give people chances if you aren’t being abused. Making mistakes is okay, hurting people sucks, but harming people thoroughly is not something you should keep giving people chances for. is it easy to tell while you’re in it? absolutely not.
So, i think, giving people chances is worth it if you see them really trying to get better and they recognize and try to rectify their mistakes.
I just want to say, minutes before the next comic is posted, that a quick ctrl-f search of the comments doesn’t turn up a SINGLE “seventy times seven” comment.
I’m disappointed in you all.
A belated happy 13th anniversary to Dumbing of Age!
Jeez! Has it been a Baker’s Dozen years already?!!