He did say that Joyce standing up for Dorothy during this visit opened his eyes a lot. Guessing she got him to question a lot of stuff he bought into hook, line, and sinker.
That he can’t look Joyce in the eye while saying these things suggests to me that he questioned the party line a lot, but went along to keep the peace in the house.
I think his many “oh”s show he understands the gravity here. The issue isn’t anything Joyce said just now except for the “She’s my *mom*” part. Joyce’s mother helped facilitate her and her friend’s kidnapping at gunpoint, indirectly got one of her friends killed, was totally cool with and supportive of her bestie being kidnapped and spirited away to a conversation therapy camp, and yknow, a lot more. Joyce has completely stopped talking to or seeing her mom, and is extremely stressed out around her. She’s got a lot of trauma wrapped up around her mom. Their conversation may be mundane in front of the woman herself, but Joe is smart enough to understand that Joyce does need him right now both to get away from her mom and to not have a complete panic attack. IMO, this was a warranted call for help, anyway.
I also think they’ve talked about a lot of this stuff via text off screen. We know they talked via text a lot, but we’ve not seen a lot of those conversations.
A huge marker for who is anti-Semitic is how much they know about how to identify Jewish people without being Jewish themselves. Obviously you can know the name Rosenthal is a Jewish name without being anti-Semitic — I knew myself — but the fact that it’s the FIRST THING out of Carol’s mouth is a big tell without even parsing her comment for the disdain that is also there. And the remark about Poland was baffling to me too. I can sort of contextualize this with vague historical knowledge about ghettos and pogroms, but I had to google to find out that “For centuries, Poland was home to the largest and most significant Ashkenazi Jewish community in the world.” (Wikipedia) It is not remotely the first thing I would think of when I heard someone was from Poland. It wouldn’t even cross my mind, because I don’t have a vendetta against Jews, but Carol…. I find that when people are being racist often it feels like these big leaps in conversation, baffling statements that don’t seem to follow at all, and it’s because they are so laser-focused on the target of their bigotry that they know all the tiny details that people who are just going about their business have never bothered to learn.
Jacob may be Protestant but his denomination is “practically Catholic” to people like Carol and as well know, to many fundamentalists, Catholic is one of the worst things you can be.
I think there are some who don’t consider them to be Christians — isn’t there a Chick Tract about how the Pope is actually the Antichrist or something?
Correct about the Chick Track—the guy was really anti-Catholic and equated the pope with the antichrist.
According to some fundies, Catholics aren’t “really Christian” because of the pope and thinking that having saints=worshiping idols, the use of ritual is putting works ahead of faith, etc.
There is also a weird fascination with Judaism among some evangelicals in that they think Jewish folks are fine because they’re “God’s chosen people” but also that they believe that all the Jews have to get their homeland back and convert to Christianity en masse in order for the Second Coming to happen—hence the pro Israel stance of most conservative Christians in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
The 2nd coming thing is also why so many of them “help” with groups/organizations that want to ship all the Jewish folks to Israel. They want to jump start it.
A lot of fundies have backed off on the anti-Catholicism in recent years as they become more allies in fighting the culture wars. A lot prominent hard-right Catholic figures in the US.
Well, for now anyways. A lot of them voted for Mitt Romney too, but they didn’t like Mormons any more than they did before once he outlived his usefulness to them. I’ll bet it’ll be the same with Catholics.
Well, it was designed to be just like the Catholic church, only with the king of England at the head instead of the Pope, so it should look and feel similar.
yeah they did seem pretty stocky/muscular, though ethan might’ve been more stocky but not esp ‘bulky’/muscular when i e was still in shape, it might’ve been his height tho?
Many Jews once lived in Poland, pre-ww2, and some still do. However many fled the nazis, and ended up in America. So polish names simply have a tendency to be Jewish.
As I said, there are still Jews remaining in Poland, they didn’t all escape Poland during ww2. So his father could simply be a Jew who moved to America before having a kid.
That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that being Polish isn’t a reason to assume someone is Jewish. It’s not like he moved from Israel where the majority are ethnically if not religiously Jewish but often both.
You’re not wrong, but it’s been enough decades/generations since then that by now many of those Polish Jewish families have either stopped identifying as Polish or Jewish or both. Maybe the connection was stronger when Carol was a child if she’s an actual Boomer, but man, that means she never bothered to update those notions.
Maybe she just thinks being Jewish is better than being Catholic, which the majority of Polish people are.
She is based on Willis’ mom and he said his mom’s attitude towards Jewish people was “well, they ARE god’s chosen people so they’re probably pretty okay.”
And Catholics are, of course, the whore of Babylon.
Tristan’s father might not have even been from Poland anyway, just had a Polish name. Doesn’t sound like she introduced herself. They went to her church after all ? According to the strip where she says she went to both services for the chance of seeing him and the one were he was in her youth group.
Yeah, that’s what struck me as weird. Tristan was at their church. Jewish seems unlikely. Though so does Catholic, which is more common for Poles.
I guess if you treat Jewish as an ethnicity they could have converted but still be seen as Jews.
I find it very bemusing that Poland is both somehow synonymous with both Catholics and Jewish immigrants. My own Uncle Wally is from Poland.
Note: Wrote this comment first on Firefox, and next on Chrome, to see if one goes through or not. Ever since I switched Browsers none of my comments have been moderated/been able to be seen.
Hmm. . .Not really sadly. “Uncle” Wally is my Grandmother’s brother-in-law. He and “Aunt” Kathy tend to live on the road a lot, traveling across the country for varying wedding, family events, or other what not at a pace of like 3 hours of driving a day.
They LOVE staying at Hotels, and prefer staying in one rather then using a guest room.
And Uncle Wally has a false leg, that he ha kept VERY hidden over the years.
Uncle Wally gets my vote for staying at hotels. That’s just a win/win for both you and him. You don’t have to make up the guest room, and they get a private space if they want it.
Locally to me they’re mostly Catholics. They even brought over their special doughnuts they make to use up fat and sugar before Lent that everyone buys a bunch of on Fat Tuesday. Not really a Jewish tradition that.
Damn, how old is Carol? Polish Jews immigrating to the USA was a huge thing nearly a century ago, when antisemitism was ramping up in Europe pre- and during WWII.
Jewish people are no longer fleeing in droves to the USA from the pogroms endorsed by the czar and/or Nazis.
As I noted above, since Tristan is Joyce’s age and his dad came from Poland, either he was around 60 when his son was born, or he came over well after WWII.
it’s not IMPOSSIBLE that a Polish Jewish family immigrated to the US in the 80’s, but it certainly does not follow the trend of where the majority of immigrants came from in that decade.
Yeah, but “Tristan’s dad was from Poland”, which would make him probably a post-fall of the Soviet Union immigrant, not a pre-WWII one.
Obviously could have been Jewish, but it’s been a long time since that was a reasonable assumption or even a common stereotype for Polish immigrants. If it ever really was.
Maybe regionally? If there was a strong Polish/Jewish community in Indiana?
More German and Scandinavian influence than Polish, in northern IN, but there seem to be a lot of people in Michigan and greater Chicago with Polish ancestry.
I made the same face as panel 5 Joyce when my little brother made the connection that my last five girlfriends before my fiance were short thick glasses wearing white girls who looked like Velma Dinkley*
*My fiance also looks a bit like Velma but is taller.
All my girlfriends/crushes have been short thick chubby bisexual black girls and they tease me about having a type. And I retort. Maybe I don’t have a type! Maybe a type has a ME!
Things they don’t actually mention when teaching WWII in high school (or at least didn’t in my high school). Nazi Germany targeting Poland so quick and hard makes more sense now.
I know that, but Poland is a majority Catholic country (and was even in WW2) and all the Polish people I know are Catholic too.
There are lots of Polish Jewish people who emigrated to the US for genocide escaping/survival reasons but there are also lots of Polish Catholic immigrants for …well, Nazi and Soviet escaping/survival reasons.
A lot of Jews with ancestors from that part of the world don’t identify as being of Polish descent because a) Poland didn’t exist as an independent nation during the biggest waves of pre-WWII immigration, and b) the people who were in charge did their best to make sure we didn’t get any silly ideas about equal rights or legal protection. I’m here because my great-grandpa on one side didn’t fancy getting conscripted by the Russian army, and the other side was tired of their village constantly getting attacked.
Sure but in this case, we’re talking about someone who is certainly Polish but Jewish is uncertain. If we were dealing with a case you describe, would it be likely for them to identify their last name as Polish one, as opposed to a Jewish one?
Mom says when she was growing up in an expat Ashkenazi community in Chicago, the thing to call someone if you wanted a there-will-be-blood fight was Ukranian, and everyone called themselves Russian Jews. These days it’s the other way around.
My relationship with my family’s past is… complex. Most of the stories start with how we got out, it took a while to reconcile that ancestral trauma into something I can look at with a self-aware eye.
My maternal grandfather who was born Germany would identify as Ukrainian though werr not sure but only beacuse the Army changed it when he was drafted to fight in the Korean War.
We aren’t sure if he is Polish or Ukrainan given his original name ended in ski and the army changed it to sky which I guess sky Ukrianan it could also be Czech or Slovak. Also Ukrainan is an Eastern Slavic language and Polish is a Western Slavic language though Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth until the Khmelnytsky Uprising which led to many Jews fleeing Ukraine for Poland beacuse of the Khmelnytsky massacres so its pretty muddled.
Yes, we never integrated into whatever Eastern European countries we were in (due to a combination of antisemitism and our own isolationism) so while many of our families are *from* Poland, we don’t align ourselves with Polish culture. Not that Carol would know that. (We only align ourselves with Jewish culture, which incidentally is also why many of us continue to identify as Jewish even while not believing in the religious aspects.)
Plus the borders were changing wildly at the time so who even knows what country we were from. I know part of my family was from the Poland/Lithuania area and the other part was from the Ukraine/Belarus/Russian area. Wherever we came from is just The Old Country.
I knew a USAF officer whose grandfather was from [town] in Poland. But when they were running his security clearance he got a call because [town] was in the USSR. He said “Yes it is is the USSR *now*, but it was in Poland when he left for the US.”
Maybe since Tristan went to their church, she couldn’t think of the family as Catholic, but she could still think of them as Jews, even if they converted?
Well, you see Carol, Ethan is currently incredibly depressed after his best friend was murdered by the guy your church bailed out and his colleague.
Sure, this happened after he and Joyce split, but even if Ethan weren’t gay, that relationship would have been hard pressed after experiencing something like that.
And he /almost/ dated danny before he put his foot in his mouth though that would’ve been amusing if she was in a bisexual love triangle as opposed to a hetero cliche one
“We broke up because he’s gay” would be enough to break Carol’s mind, though I do like working in his roommate getting killed thanks to Blaine and Ross.
Carol’s other extremely relevant and contemporary reference will be to say that Joyce should get married instead of working because the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire has made her nervous about women being allowed to work outside the home
lol it’d be hilarious if there was a flash forward 15 years from now and them being married and their kids being more religious even with given ‘freedom’. or she somehow goes to church in a social way versus being there for prayer, if any churches are even cool with that
Unitarian Universalists are the obvious one, but I imagine there are people who go to most middle of the road to liberal churches at the very least primarily for social reasons. Even when your beliefs have changed, sometimes it feels nice and familiar, and the people are often friendly and the music is nice.
Plenty of liberal Christians are just as religious as the fundies. And plenty of the fundies are there primarily for social reasons too.
The toxicity of the religion isn’t really tied to how much people believe in it.
Romans. Jesus got nailed by ROMANS. Saying he got nailed by Hebrews implicitly buys into the “Jews killed Jesus.” bullshit that’s a common excuse for antisemitism.
But Jesus was convicted and condemned by the chief priests, the elders, and the rest of the Sanhedrin. They then turned him over to the Romans for execution of the sentence because, according to the law, they could not put anyone to death and still remain ritually clean for the feast of the Passover.
I’m not familiar with the biblical account, but the Romans had a vested interest in executing would-be messiahs. Jesus was far from the only one they put down; hell, he wasn’t even the only one who had a small cult believing he was the messiah after his death. (Said cults were small given that it was hard to rationalize how someone would free the Jews from Roman rule and restore the line of David if they were already dead.) If the Romans came a-knocking with demands that Oily Josh be turned over to them, there isn’t much that anyone could’ve done to save him, trial or no trial.
Yeah, there was a lot of apocalyptic preaching at the time – not to mention people who were thought to be the messiah. A lot of the time it just went on until they pissed off the Romans and were executed.
Rome ruled the area brutally. They crushed several major revolts, one during thr childhood of Jesus. He wanted religious reform but the primary reality of the time was roman oppression.
Like it’s true in so far as that’s where it happened, so it would be unlikely for other nationalities to be involved. Lee Harvey Oswald had applied for Cuban citizenship, it’s possible he was trying to impress them, but he was still an American, not unlike the Jewish court being obligated to the interests of Rome.
But it’s a ridiculous thing to say unless you just want to use a famous murder to put collective blame on an entire nation for all time.
I suggest you read chapters 26 and 27 of Matthew, paying special note to Matt 26: 3-5 and also 57-66, as well as Matt 27: 1-26; chapters 14 and 15 of Mark’s gospel, with your attention directed to Mark 15: 53-65 and Mark 15: 1-15; or the Gospel of Luke, chapters 22 and 23, and I point you to Luke 22: 66-71 and Luke 23: 1-25. I’m not going to say that the Jewish nation in its entirety wanted to see Jesus dead, but those in power, the ones whose applecarts would be upset and their ride on the gravy train brought to an end, used every trick at their disposal to make sure (at least they thought) that this particular rabble-rouser would be silenced permanently.
I did read “Zealot” by Ezra Aslan, on Willis’ recommendation. I figure it’s a more reliable text on the politics involved in Jesus’ life and death than all the gospels, and it would agree with your point. Obviously, those in power didn’t like having their authority challenged. But I submit that’s still not any indication of the collective evil of the Jewish people, especially as none of them were democratically elected or anything.
I’m under the impression that Jewish law forbidding the Sanhedrin to impose death was a happy coincidence for them, because Roman law reserved that power to the Roman governor acting in the Emperor’s name. But I’m too lazy this afternoon to find a citation.
The gospels are religious scripture, not historical sources. The majority of historical sources we have (granted there aren’t many) don’t mention the Sanhedrin, just Rome. Jesus was executed for crimes against Rome, with a Roman execution method during a time when the Sanhedrin lack the authority to execute someone but they DID have a trigger happy Roman governor. Add in that Jesus’ rhetoric isn’t particularly blasphemous for Late Second Temple Pharisaic Judaism.
Now I am BEGGING you to stop because you’re spreading a lot of the same falsehoods that come with “Christkiller” antisemitic bullshit and I don’t think that’s what you want.
The gospels were also written at a time when the fledgling Christian community was spreading among Gentiles and often in conflict with the Jewish communities they were still tied to.
Carol’s weirdly more chill than I expected. Like, she’s clearly an issue but I though there’d be more of a scene in general. She’s kind of just whatever.
Iirc, Willis once commented that their own mother would lull them into a false sense of security like she was a real good mom and everything was gonna be okay, and then BAM she’d say something just incredibly terrible to leave Willis reeling for days.
Like the scene of Carol comforting Joyce on the phone after the kidnapping. At first she was saying the right things, but then suddenly nosedived right through “bless him, he thought he was doing the right thing” and further catching fire and exploding with “I would die for you, Joyce, I would die for you.”
And probably LOVES to get Joyce riled up so she can play her tone policing card. Changing the subject away from what she’s done or said that’s offensive or evil, and making herself the victim.
well, her having a boyfriend is fairly normal and not necessarily just being overly hostile to him versus if she’d said that she was dating dorothy but i imagine if it’d escalated ruth would get involved versus completely relying on joe to disarm things
i can totally imagine it being equally funny if it was something ‘projected’ onto her too, even if a bit awkward for younger kids, like parents teasing you for talking to someone not your gender
or someone liking you but being a dumb kid brain and being embarrassed and being like “no she’s too ugly” and accidentally ruining someone’s self esteem for years
well, there’s probably been antisemites who have snarkily commented on ppl with jewish /heritage/ and discriminated against them over a last name versus someone actively practicing their faith
I mean assuming someone with a Polish name is Jewish is weird it sounds like it should be anti semitic but… at the same time my maternal grandfather who was Jewisj had Slavic sounding name that may be either Polish or Ukranian my maternal grandmothers who was also Jewish had a Portuguese last name. Point is Jewish people can be Jewish without having a Jewish sounding name.
Last names in general were far from universal before the 20th century. A lot of people coming to the US just got one attached to them by the emigration officials at Ellis Island or wherever.
Making everyone have a last name is a thing that got pushed as part of nationalism, nation-building, and getting everyone into government bureaucratic records. So when you did have to get one, there wasn’t any consistent rule on how you picked it, or had it imposed upon you.
Jewish people can certainly be Jewish without a Jewish sounding name. The weird part is assuming Polish means Jewish.
Polish means Catholic is also a stereotype, but it’s one that’s more likely to be accurate. Or at least was for Polish families who immigrated a couple generations back.
Carol is about my age. When I was young, it felt as though the accepted term (the one that wouldn’t get you a murderous look) changed monthly. I could well understand her deciding to step off the treadmill until the language settled. Mind, in her case I think not caring is more likely.
But “colored” was old-fashioned even when she was a teen.
I definitely remember some confusion about “colored people” being offensive but “people of color” being preferred. If you don’t grasp the history and context and just look at the words, it makes no sense.
What I’ve learned in my 40 years here is “best efforts, and if someone tells you what they want to be called believe them.” Works for names, works for ethnicities, works for genders, only time it’s led me wrong is with jerks trying to be funny and sincerely believing them pisses those guys off so badly it’s hilarious.
Other people have mentioned Joe’s expression in the last panel, but I’m giving my biggest ‘Awww’ to Joyce smiling while in her mom’s presence for the first time since Carol turned up at getting to introduce Joe as her boyfriend.
The whole comic is an homage to Joe Rosenthal (sculptor) and his wife Joyce (socialist). It’s surprising Willis didn’t build up to it in any way, but this was inevitable.
You know, I like being able to see instances of Joyce’s mom not being horrible. That’s actually a fun interaction. And it hints that she didn’t have a problem with Joyce and Tristan either (as far as it went).
Which is good, because this will inevitably pivot.
All this talk about Polish Jews has me thinking of a certain town about two hundred kilometers northwest of Lviv… I’m told it was about half Jewish until… well, until. But yeah, we’ve all heard the jokes, right?
(I’m not sure how up others are on Eastern European geography, so I’m just going to say it: two hundred kilometers northwest of Lviv is Chelm. And I KNOW you’ve heard all the jokes about Chelm.)
Yeah, I can’t remember the jokes specifically – I think I’ll have to look them up – but the basic joke was “they’re idiots who don’t know they’re idiots.” I think historically, the town (about 60k today) was around half-Jewish until *coughcoughcough.*
A) She’s really just brushing past all those things, huh?
B) Joe is being pushed into family drama here in the first week of a relationship. That’s going to be… interesting.
C) I don’t see an issue with preferences as long as it’s not exclusionary.
D) For some reason Carol saying these words makes me think it’s somewhere on the racism scale, but I can’t quite place where.
It is a bunch early, but Joe’s been the friend she’s confided in about her family. I don’t disapprove, but it’s kind of a situation tailored exactly for him, to be a stand-up guy when it would be understandable for someone to nope out.
I’m sure there’s an implied undercurrent of antisemitism. My fiancé isn’t Jewish but has a very Jewish last name and I’ve had several family members be weird about it until they learn that he was raised Christian (even though neither of us are religious as adults).
Who the hell cares if he’s Jewish? Labels in society have created so much hate lately. A guy is who he is. His religion doesn’t matter. Same goes for a woman. Or whatever else we have out there now. It doesn’t matter. I go with Martin Luther King Jr. Judge a person by the content of their character. The rest? Foolish nonsense.
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“I also LOVE the Jewish men!”
crazy runaway houses, SHEESH
Way to go, Joe.
This is going too well, when is the shoe going to drop?
It’s already dropped. What can only happen now is Carol existing.
There’s another shoe coming, though.
With Carol, there’s always more shoes.
She’s a veritable Imelda Marcos.
Given all the folks Blaine seems responsible for endangering and possibly killing… they’re certainly a pair of heels.
One of those containers is just shoes.
So now she will spend the weekend unpacking them, both literally and metaphorically.
i mean, hopefully she’ll leave as opposed to “i’ll be sleeping in my car in the parking lot all weekend” or so
…did I just laugh at something Carol said?
Don’t let whatever hidden charm she has fool you she’s still a traitor.
And the “His dad was from Poland so I just assume” isn’t exactly a great look.
From.
Poland.
I’m beginning to think that her Holocaust/Nazi comment from way back in the earliest days of the strip now have different meaning.
For reference, this one?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/moral/
Wow, that one lowered my opinion on Hank back down a good deal.
Your wife and entire support system conspiring to kill people does things to your perspective.
Yeah that’s true, current Hank is way more chill. I just had forgotten how bad he used to be, is all.
I suspect he followed Carol far deeper down the rabbit hole than he would’ve gone on his own.
He did say that Joyce standing up for Dorothy during this visit opened his eyes a lot. Guessing she got him to question a lot of stuff he bought into hook, line, and sinker.
Yeah, I’d rather give Hank his character growth than assume he was always great and just being held down by Carol.
That he can’t look Joyce in the eye while saying these things suggests to me that he questioned the party line a lot, but went along to keep the peace in the house.
You know I’d forgotten that element of Dorothy’s family history. Fuck, maybe this is a thing with Joyce.
You know who ELSE was Jewish? Jesus. !00% Jewish. I can see why Joyces parents wouldn’t want to admit that but it doesn’t change the facts.
Not gonna lie, I would like to see shortpacked jesus roll up on Carol with the reeds and cleanse the Temple.
It was mostly just that the comment caught me off guard, honestly.
Oh, boy, is it not. I had to doubletake when I read that line. A sign that she is most likely a Holocaust denier.
Great face journey off Joe here
Indeed! 😀
Thirded! I’m also a little in awe of Joe here. I don’t believe I would react this well if someone got me out of class for something like this.
I think his many “oh”s show he understands the gravity here. The issue isn’t anything Joyce said just now except for the “She’s my *mom*” part. Joyce’s mother helped facilitate her and her friend’s kidnapping at gunpoint, indirectly got one of her friends killed, was totally cool with and supportive of her bestie being kidnapped and spirited away to a conversation therapy camp, and yknow, a lot more. Joyce has completely stopped talking to or seeing her mom, and is extremely stressed out around her. She’s got a lot of trauma wrapped up around her mom. Their conversation may be mundane in front of the woman herself, but Joe is smart enough to understand that Joyce does need him right now both to get away from her mom and to not have a complete panic attack. IMO, this was a warranted call for help, anyway.
I also think they’ve talked about a lot of this stuff via text off screen. We know they talked via text a lot, but we’ve not seen a lot of those conversations.
Joe in the last panel looks very amused at Joyce’s backpedaling.
She already told him. I’ll see if I can find the strip.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/help-2/
That, or he’s noticed that someone’s stuck a KICK ME sign on the top of Carol’s head.
Shockingly cute strip for one that Carol is present in.
We’re being lured into a false sense of security. Or given a needed respite before the bad stuff hits. Either way, keep your guard up.
Except for all the antisemitism…
How on earth does she even know Joe is Jewish? Phrenology?
Rosenthal.
A huge marker for who is anti-Semitic is how much they know about how to identify Jewish people without being Jewish themselves. Obviously you can know the name Rosenthal is a Jewish name without being anti-Semitic — I knew myself — but the fact that it’s the FIRST THING out of Carol’s mouth is a big tell without even parsing her comment for the disdain that is also there. And the remark about Poland was baffling to me too. I can sort of contextualize this with vague historical knowledge about ghettos and pogroms, but I had to google to find out that “For centuries, Poland was home to the largest and most significant Ashkenazi Jewish community in the world.” (Wikipedia) It is not remotely the first thing I would think of when I heard someone was from Poland. It wouldn’t even cross my mind, because I don’t have a vendetta against Jews, but Carol…. I find that when people are being racist often it feels like these big leaps in conversation, baffling statements that don’t seem to follow at all, and it’s because they are so laser-focused on the target of their bigotry that they know all the tiny details that people who are just going about their business have never bothered to learn.
Not even Carol can completely Karen away the adorabs these two are.
Oh yeah, Ethan, true. Though, given Jacob, maybe it’s more she is just into men who are built like superheroes.
Something something Men Who Can Be Climbed Like Trees or something…
That would check out with the open statement that she enjoys draping herself across Joe’s shoulders.
I’m sure that would go swimmingly with Carol. “I don’t just like Jewish guys, there was a black guy I was crushing on who’s protestant.”
She’s not Walky’s mom but I haven’t had good experiences with old fundy ladies and racism.
Well considering the Poland comment …
Yeah, not too far of a stretch.
Jacob may be Protestant but his denomination is “practically Catholic” to people like Carol and as well know, to many fundamentalists, Catholic is one of the worst things you can be.
It’s a step up above atheist.
….. probably.
Depends – some say yes because they’re still Christian and some say no because they’re super weird about ‘saving atheists’.
I think there are some who don’t consider them to be Christians — isn’t there a Chick Tract about how the Pope is actually the Antichrist or something?
Correct about the Chick Track—the guy was really anti-Catholic and equated the pope with the antichrist.
According to some fundies, Catholics aren’t “really Christian” because of the pope and thinking that having saints=worshiping idols, the use of ritual is putting works ahead of faith, etc.
There is also a weird fascination with Judaism among some evangelicals in that they think Jewish folks are fine because they’re “God’s chosen people” but also that they believe that all the Jews have to get their homeland back and convert to Christianity en masse in order for the Second Coming to happen—hence the pro Israel stance of most conservative Christians in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
The 2nd coming thing is also why so many of them “help” with groups/organizations that want to ship all the Jewish folks to Israel. They want to jump start it.
A lot of fundies have backed off on the anti-Catholicism in recent years as they become more allies in fighting the culture wars. A lot prominent hard-right Catholic figures in the US.
Well, for now anyways. A lot of them voted for Mitt Romney too, but they didn’t like Mormons any more than they did before once he outlived his usefulness to them. I’ll bet it’ll be the same with Catholics.
Well, it was designed to be just like the Catholic church, only with the king of England at the head instead of the Pope, so it should look and feel similar.
Carol isn’t racist, don’t be absurd! She was delighted that Joyce made a black friend!
(This is sarcasm)
yeah they did seem pretty stocky/muscular, though ethan might’ve been more stocky but not esp ‘bulky’/muscular when i e was still in shape, it might’ve been his height tho?
Shoulders and chins much be square.
🎵”I have often biked
Down this street before. . .”
But did she have a brand new pair of roller skates?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCTMTflcuug
Tristan’s dad was from Poland … uhh, what? Historical cluelessness?
Many Jews once lived in Poland, pre-ww2, and some still do. However many fled the nazis, and ended up in America. So polish names simply have a tendency to be Jewish.
Yeah, but that doesn’t work for Tristan’s dad, unless he was 60 or so when Tristan was born.
As I said, there are still Jews remaining in Poland, they didn’t all escape Poland during ww2. So his father could simply be a Jew who moved to America before having a kid.
That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that being Polish isn’t a reason to assume someone is Jewish. It’s not like he moved from Israel where the majority are ethnically if not religiously Jewish but often both.
You’re not wrong, but it’s been enough decades/generations since then that by now many of those Polish Jewish families have either stopped identifying as Polish or Jewish or both. Maybe the connection was stronger when Carol was a child if she’s an actual Boomer, but man, that means she never bothered to update those notions.
Yeah, Carol doesn’t strike me as one to spend a lot of time reflecting on her biases.
Maybe she just thinks being Jewish is better than being Catholic, which the majority of Polish people are.
She is based on Willis’ mom and he said his mom’s attitude towards Jewish people was “well, they ARE god’s chosen people so they’re probably pretty okay.”
And Catholics are, of course, the whore of Babylon.
Tristan’s father might not have even been from Poland anyway, just had a Polish name. Doesn’t sound like she introduced herself. They went to her church after all ? According to the strip where she says she went to both services for the chance of seeing him and the one were he was in her youth group.
Yeah, that’s what struck me as weird. Tristan was at their church. Jewish seems unlikely. Though so does Catholic, which is more common for Poles.
I guess if you treat Jewish as an ethnicity they could have converted but still be seen as Jews.
Famously, the name Tristan is probably best known from the Wagner opera Tristan und Iseult
Nah she just likes her men big in this AU.
I find it very bemusing that Poland is both somehow synonymous with both Catholics and Jewish immigrants. My own Uncle Wally is from Poland.
Note: Wrote this comment first on Firefox, and next on Chrome, to see if one goes through or not. Ever since I switched Browsers none of my comments have been moderated/been able to be seen.
I have the same issue. I have no idea how to fix it, though.
PS.
Do you have a fun story Uncle Wally story you would be willing to share? A guy who goes by Wally sounds like a fun guy.
Hmm. . .Not really sadly. “Uncle” Wally is my Grandmother’s brother-in-law. He and “Aunt” Kathy tend to live on the road a lot, traveling across the country for varying wedding, family events, or other what not at a pace of like 3 hours of driving a day.
They LOVE staying at Hotels, and prefer staying in one rather then using a guest room.
And Uncle Wally has a false leg, that he ha kept VERY hidden over the years.
He sounds like a cool dude. Thanks for sharing.
Uncle Wally gets my vote for staying at hotels. That’s just a win/win for both you and him. You don’t have to make up the guest room, and they get a private space if they want it.
Wait… what happened to Joe’s other eyebrow?
It fell off when he was running over.
Hopefully it’s inchworming its way to Joyce’s dorm right now.
He sent it out to summon backup.
“Get help!”
He loaned it to that guy from FLCL?
Cue Captain America “reference” meme.
After episode 6, Commander Amarao could probably use some new ones.
It got lost, unlike the other one that managed to catch up to him in the third panel.
Go on, Joyce, tell her that you don’t just like the Jewish men. Tell her that you got off with an atheist woman.
Though, Dorothy does have a Jewish ancestry … I think.
“Irish and jewish”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/provisionally/
Any minute now Carol’s going to say something that will show Joe just what kind of person she really is.
That “aww, this is kinda sweet” look on his face in the last panel isn’t going to last long, I think.
I think that’s 100% directed at Joyce.
Yeah, I think he is 100% just finding Joyce adorable. And who can blame him?
I mean she just stereotyped everyone from Poland as Jewish.
People of Polish descent in the states are very often also of Jewish descent for genocide avoidance reasons.
I guess since that’s her basis, she is at least not a Holocaust denier? Yay?
Locally to me they’re mostly Catholics. They even brought over their special doughnuts they make to use up fat and sugar before Lent that everyone buys a bunch of on Fat Tuesday. Not really a Jewish tradition that.
The “oh. oh. OH.” didn’t clue you in? The entire school probably knows about the kidnapping/murder.
They probably don’t all know that her funded helped put up the bail money though.
Pretty sure he knows the whoooole story and was realizing just what kind of wackadoodle cult member is standing in front of him as he said “oh”.
Yup, that is the face (and series of utterances) of someone processing the info-dump he’s just been given, and all the implications thereof.
Well you know what they say when you assume, Carol.
you never go back?
no, wait…
and also Jesus I guess?
Damn, how old is Carol? Polish Jews immigrating to the USA was a huge thing nearly a century ago, when antisemitism was ramping up in Europe pre- and during WWII.
Jewish people are no longer fleeing in droves to the USA from the pogroms endorsed by the czar and/or Nazis.
As I noted above, since Tristan is Joyce’s age and his dad came from Poland, either he was around 60 when his son was born, or he came over well after WWII.
it’s not IMPOSSIBLE that a Polish Jewish family immigrated to the US in the 80’s, but it certainly does not follow the trend of where the majority of immigrants came from in that decade.
Or he had a Polish surname and Carol just assumed he was a recent immigrant despite his family having been in America for generations.
honestly I think this is the actual right answer, I’m just boggled by how out of date Carol’s info is
She’s just being racist.
Yup, that’s it. Tristan even went to their church.
this is like being racist against Italians. Like yeah, that used to be a thing, but it’s so very odd seeing it two decades into the 21st century
But it’s also weird racist.
The racist stereotypes for Poles I’m familiar with would be Catholic, not Jewish.
Their descendants are still here. They didn’t just instantly teleport back to Poland when the war ended.
Yeah, but “Tristan’s dad was from Poland”, which would make him probably a post-fall of the Soviet Union immigrant, not a pre-WWII one.
Obviously could have been Jewish, but it’s been a long time since that was a reasonable assumption or even a common stereotype for Polish immigrants. If it ever really was.
Maybe regionally? If there was a strong Polish/Jewish community in Indiana?
More German and Scandinavian influence than Polish, in northern IN, but there seem to be a lot of people in Michigan and greater Chicago with Polish ancestry.
More that maybe the Polish community in Indiana was particularly Jewish?
I made the same face as panel 5 Joyce when my little brother made the connection that my last five girlfriends before my fiance were short thick glasses wearing white girls who looked like Velma Dinkley*
*My fiance also looks a bit like Velma but is taller.
Jinkies.
Who can blame you, Velma was the hot one.
I too married a Velma.
All my girlfriends/crushes have been short thick chubby bisexual black girls and they tease me about having a type. And I retort. Maybe I don’t have a type! Maybe a type has a ME!
seems to be a pretty common/popular look lol
I think I *became* a Velma, and I’m not sure how I feel about that.
Same. Same.
It was funnier when Sarah pointed that out, Carol!
I find it odd Carol associates Polish with Jewish, given that Poland is a Catholic majority country.
Poland was formerly within the Pale of Settlement, where Jews were allowed to live within the Russian Empire, so there used to be a lot of Jews there.
Used to be, because. Well.
Things they don’t actually mention when teaching WWII in high school (or at least didn’t in my high school). Nazi Germany targeting Poland so quick and hard makes more sense now.
I know that, but Poland is a majority Catholic country (and was even in WW2) and all the Polish people I know are Catholic too.
There are lots of Polish Jewish people who emigrated to the US for genocide escaping/survival reasons but there are also lots of Polish Catholic immigrants for …well, Nazi and Soviet escaping/survival reasons.
A lot of Jews with ancestors from that part of the world don’t identify as being of Polish descent because a) Poland didn’t exist as an independent nation during the biggest waves of pre-WWII immigration, and b) the people who were in charge did their best to make sure we didn’t get any silly ideas about equal rights or legal protection. I’m here because my great-grandpa on one side didn’t fancy getting conscripted by the Russian army, and the other side was tired of their village constantly getting attacked.
Sure but in this case, we’re talking about someone who is certainly Polish but Jewish is uncertain. If we were dealing with a case you describe, would it be likely for them to identify their last name as Polish one, as opposed to a Jewish one?
Mom says when she was growing up in an expat Ashkenazi community in Chicago, the thing to call someone if you wanted a there-will-be-blood fight was Ukranian, and everyone called themselves Russian Jews. These days it’s the other way around.
My relationship with my family’s past is… complex. Most of the stories start with how we got out, it took a while to reconcile that ancestral trauma into something I can look at with a self-aware eye.
My maternal grandfather who was born Germany would identify as Ukrainian though werr not sure but only beacuse the Army changed it when he was drafted to fight in the Korean War.
We aren’t sure if he is Polish or Ukrainan given his original name ended in ski and the army changed it to sky which I guess sky Ukrianan it could also be Czech or Slovak. Also Ukrainan is an Eastern Slavic language and Polish is a Western Slavic language though Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth until the Khmelnytsky Uprising which led to many Jews fleeing Ukraine for Poland beacuse of the Khmelnytsky massacres so its pretty muddled.
Yes, we never integrated into whatever Eastern European countries we were in (due to a combination of antisemitism and our own isolationism) so while many of our families are *from* Poland, we don’t align ourselves with Polish culture. Not that Carol would know that. (We only align ourselves with Jewish culture, which incidentally is also why many of us continue to identify as Jewish even while not believing in the religious aspects.)
Plus the borders were changing wildly at the time so who even knows what country we were from. I know part of my family was from the Poland/Lithuania area and the other part was from the Ukraine/Belarus/Russian area. Wherever we came from is just The Old Country.
I knew a USAF officer whose grandfather was from [town] in Poland. But when they were running his security clearance he got a call because [town] was in the USSR. He said “Yes it is is the USSR *now*, but it was in Poland when he left for the US.”
Hah!
Maybe since Tristan went to their church, she couldn’t think of the family as Catholic, but she could still think of them as Jews, even if they converted?
It’s because Carol is ignorant of the world and associates Eastern Europe with Jewishness.
“What happened to him?”
Well, you see Carol, Ethan is currently incredibly depressed after his best friend was murdered by the guy your church bailed out and his colleague.
Sure, this happened after he and Joyce split, but even if Ethan weren’t gay, that relationship would have been hard pressed after experiencing something like that.
And he /almost/ dated danny before he put his foot in his mouth though that would’ve been amusing if she was in a bisexual love triangle as opposed to a hetero cliche one
“We broke up because he’s gay” would be enough to break Carol’s mind, though I do like working in his roommate getting killed thanks to Blaine and Ross.
And now I’m expecting her to say some disparaging things about depression, and mental health issues in general.
Carol’s other extremely relevant and contemporary reference will be to say that Joyce should get married instead of working because the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire has made her nervous about women being allowed to work outside the home
Very good!
Does Joe know about Carol’s involvement with Mike’s death, the kidnappings, the shenanigans?
Joyce has been texting him a lot, so I think so. He gave her advice on how to avoid being alone with her parents.
Joe is truly an A plus plus boyfriend. Looking out for Joyce.
Well he is the Chosen people. So Joyce chose him.
lol it’d be hilarious if there was a flash forward 15 years from now and them being married and their kids being more religious even with given ‘freedom’. or she somehow goes to church in a social way versus being there for prayer, if any churches are even cool with that
Unitarian Universalists are the obvious one, but I imagine there are people who go to most middle of the road to liberal churches at the very least primarily for social reasons. Even when your beliefs have changed, sometimes it feels nice and familiar, and the people are often friendly and the music is nice.
Plenty of liberal Christians are just as religious as the fundies. And plenty of the fundies are there primarily for social reasons too.
The toxicity of the religion isn’t really tied to how much people believe in it.
Why would any churches ever find out?
Really swinging for the fences there, Carol.
“Damn. I guess Jesus isn’t the only one getting nailed by Hebrews.”
Romans. Jesus got nailed by ROMANS. Saying he got nailed by Hebrews implicitly buys into the “Jews killed Jesus.” bullshit that’s a common excuse for antisemitism.
In fact, Yeshua bin Yusef was a Hebrew, so…
But Jesus was convicted and condemned by the chief priests, the elders, and the rest of the Sanhedrin. They then turned him over to the Romans for execution of the sentence because, according to the law, they could not put anyone to death and still remain ritually clean for the feast of the Passover.
I’m not familiar with the biblical account, but the Romans had a vested interest in executing would-be messiahs. Jesus was far from the only one they put down; hell, he wasn’t even the only one who had a small cult believing he was the messiah after his death. (Said cults were small given that it was hard to rationalize how someone would free the Jews from Roman rule and restore the line of David if they were already dead.) If the Romans came a-knocking with demands that Oily Josh be turned over to them, there isn’t much that anyone could’ve done to save him, trial or no trial.
Yeah, there was a lot of apocalyptic preaching at the time – not to mention people who were thought to be the messiah. A lot of the time it just went on until they pissed off the Romans and were executed.
Oily Josh?
Josh is another version of Yeshua – Jesus
and Jewish Kings and thus the Messiah were traditionally annointed with oil.
Christ also literally just means “the anointed one”
Therefore Jesus Christ = Oily Josh
Zealot isn’t a very well respected book among actual scholars. I would recommend https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/554983.God_and_Empire
Rome ruled the area brutally. They crushed several major revolts, one during thr childhood of Jesus. He wanted religious reform but the primary reality of the time was roman oppression.
It’s like saying John F Kennedy was killed by the Americans.
Like it’s true in so far as that’s where it happened, so it would be unlikely for other nationalities to be involved. Lee Harvey Oswald had applied for Cuban citizenship, it’s possible he was trying to impress them, but he was still an American, not unlike the Jewish court being obligated to the interests of Rome.
But it’s a ridiculous thing to say unless you just want to use a famous murder to put collective blame on an entire nation for all time.
I suggest you read chapters 26 and 27 of Matthew, paying special note to Matt 26: 3-5 and also 57-66, as well as Matt 27: 1-26; chapters 14 and 15 of Mark’s gospel, with your attention directed to Mark 15: 53-65 and Mark 15: 1-15; or the Gospel of Luke, chapters 22 and 23, and I point you to Luke 22: 66-71 and Luke 23: 1-25. I’m not going to say that the Jewish nation in its entirety wanted to see Jesus dead, but those in power, the ones whose applecarts would be upset and their ride on the gravy train brought to an end, used every trick at their disposal to make sure (at least they thought) that this particular rabble-rouser would be silenced permanently.
I did read “Zealot” by Ezra Aslan, on Willis’ recommendation. I figure it’s a more reliable text on the politics involved in Jesus’ life and death than all the gospels, and it would agree with your point. Obviously, those in power didn’t like having their authority challenged. But I submit that’s still not any indication of the collective evil of the Jewish people, especially as none of them were democratically elected or anything.
I’m under the impression that Jewish law forbidding the Sanhedrin to impose death was a happy coincidence for them, because Roman law reserved that power to the Roman governor acting in the Emperor’s name. But I’m too lazy this afternoon to find a citation.
The gospels are religious scripture, not historical sources. The majority of historical sources we have (granted there aren’t many) don’t mention the Sanhedrin, just Rome. Jesus was executed for crimes against Rome, with a Roman execution method during a time when the Sanhedrin lack the authority to execute someone but they DID have a trigger happy Roman governor. Add in that Jesus’ rhetoric isn’t particularly blasphemous for Late Second Temple Pharisaic Judaism.
Now I am BEGGING you to stop because you’re spreading a lot of the same falsehoods that come with “Christkiller” antisemitic bullshit and I don’t think that’s what you want.
The gospels were also written at a time when the fledgling Christian community was spreading among Gentiles and often in conflict with the Jewish communities they were still tied to.
That doesn’t really seem out of character for her, sadly
We need more Tristan. Unless he’s a male bongo. A drum.
i moved away from my childhood neighborhood/social media wasn’t rly a ‘thing’ to where ppl could stay in touch w/ knowing ppl’s names
But 50/50 on him being a glowup and ‘good christian’ or a full on neo-n*zi using his religion as an excuse to be hateful
Carol’s weirdly more chill than I expected. Like, she’s clearly an issue but I though there’d be more of a scene in general. She’s kind of just whatever.
Scene ain’t over yet.
Iirc, Willis once commented that their own mother would lull them into a false sense of security like she was a real good mom and everything was gonna be okay, and then BAM she’d say something just incredibly terrible to leave Willis reeling for days.
Like the scene of Carol comforting Joyce on the phone after the kidnapping. At first she was saying the right things, but then suddenly nosedived right through “bless him, he thought he was doing the right thing” and further catching fire and exploding with “I would die for you, Joyce, I would die for you.”
Yeah, and that’s a fairly common abuse tactic too, especially now that there’s a witness here.
SHE thinks she’s perfectly sane and in the right. And blessed above all heathens by God. It’s all those other people who are the crazy ones.
And probably LOVES to get Joyce riled up so she can play her tone policing card. Changing the subject away from what she’s done or said that’s offensive or evil, and making herself the victim.
well, her having a boyfriend is fairly normal and not necessarily just being overly hostile to him versus if she’d said that she was dating dorothy but i imagine if it’d escalated ruth would get involved versus completely relying on joe to disarm things
While I’m sure Ruth would love another chance to suplex Carol, we don’t even know if she’s in the building. Ruth’s got classes of her own.
People are rarely completely awful 24/7, but I kind of doubt things will go this smoothly for the entire day though
Panel 5: When the situation is really awkward and there’s a lot of family tension but your girlfriend is so freaking cute you just can’t even
I love that panel for that very reason
I know right? Their little smiles at each other? A+.
Ah, so that confirms there were more than just the four tubs of stuff. It was six.
Question one, who the fuck is Tristan, question two, fucking Zoomers can’t use prepositions, not really a question.
Tristan was a boy in Joyce’s church at home that she had a crush on.
Except that she absolutely didn’t have a crush on him, nope, not at all, she never even noticed him, Tristan who?
Unrequited bicycling is the worst.
It’s a vicious cycle.
i can totally imagine it being equally funny if it was something ‘projected’ onto her too, even if a bit awkward for younger kids, like parents teasing you for talking to someone not your gender
or someone liking you but being a dumb kid brain and being embarrassed and being like “no she’s too ugly” and accidentally ruining someone’s self esteem for years
AAAH my family did that. i think it just made me scared of talking to [gender] lest anyone make fun of us
It’s like when a shy kid tries to join in and gets “finally decided to join us.” Don’t punish behaviours you want to encourage.
It would be funny, but it’s come up before. She was definitely crushing on Tristan.
So you are saying a boy in their church was jewish?
In her church? Why the hell would Carol think he was Jewish, then?
I guess Poles are mostly either Catholic or Orthodox, and neither count as Christian in Carol’s mind?
well, there’s probably been antisemites who have snarkily commented on ppl with jewish /heritage/ and discriminated against them over a last name versus someone actively practicing their faith
She also likes Black men who go to churches with serif crosses.
I mean assuming someone with a Polish name is Jewish is weird it sounds like it should be anti semitic but… at the same time my maternal grandfather who was Jewisj had Slavic sounding name that may be either Polish or Ukranian my maternal grandmothers who was also Jewish had a Portuguese last name. Point is Jewish people can be Jewish without having a Jewish sounding name.
Last names in general were far from universal before the 20th century. A lot of people coming to the US just got one attached to them by the emigration officials at Ellis Island or wherever.
Making everyone have a last name is a thing that got pushed as part of nationalism, nation-building, and getting everyone into government bureaucratic records. So when you did have to get one, there wasn’t any consistent rule on how you picked it, or had it imposed upon you.
Jewish people can certainly be Jewish without a Jewish sounding name. The weird part is assuming Polish means Jewish.
Polish means Catholic is also a stereotype, but it’s one that’s more likely to be accurate. Or at least was for Polish families who immigrated a couple generations back.
Tristan strikes again XD it’s been a while
if she calls Sarah colored I’m gonna wish bodily harm on her lol
She is on record as calling Sarah “African-American”:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/perfectest/
Carol has weird values:
“I can’t wait to tell my racist friends that our kid isn’t racist.”
“All Jews are from Poland.”
“I never thought Ross would do it.”
“I keep telling him to just shoot them.”
there was also that dorm party where walky commented on the sound track like “is it just me or is the chorus literally saying colored people”?
Carol is about my age. When I was young, it felt as though the accepted term (the one that wouldn’t get you a murderous look) changed monthly. I could well understand her deciding to step off the treadmill until the language settled. Mind, in her case I think not caring is more likely.
But “colored” was old-fashioned even when she was a teen.
I definitely remember some confusion about “colored people” being offensive but “people of color” being preferred. If you don’t grasp the history and context and just look at the words, it makes no sense.
I remember a Bloom County strip that explored exactly this
What I’ve learned in my 40 years here is “best efforts, and if someone tells you what they want to be called believe them.” Works for names, works for ethnicities, works for genders, only time it’s led me wrong is with jerks trying to be funny and sincerely believing them pisses those guys off so badly it’s hilarious.
Other people have mentioned Joe’s expression in the last panel, but I’m giving my biggest ‘Awww’ to Joyce smiling while in her mom’s presence for the first time since Carol turned up at getting to introduce Joe as her boyfriend.
lol so tristan was jewish ethnically but still went to joyce’s church or just a neighbor?
Tristan went to their church, she was hoping to see him* when they went to church during a visit home:
* Not Tristan especially, just Tristan as one of the other kids she knew there.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/countryside/
Definitely not Tristan especially. Nope. Not at all.
how awkward would it be if Joe was not Jewish and she just assumed
I guess she assumed he was Jewish based on his name.
Im thinking so. its possible for people to have a surname common amoung Jewish people but not be Jewish (im people)
My fiancé is also people lol
Carol *is* just assuming Joe is Jewish based on his name, and Joe *is* actually Jewish (it has come up several times).
Wait, when did Joyce and Joe start interacting romantically? This is so out of nowhere.
Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, they’ve had a big romance arc in the last chapter
I’m sure.
The whole comic is an homage to Joe Rosenthal (sculptor) and his wife Joyce (socialist). It’s surprising Willis didn’t build up to it in any way, but this was inevitable.
What’s with the little mark on Joe’s shirt? Did he spill food, or is iy meant to be a shirt design? I am very confused by it
I guess it’s the shadow between his titties
You made me smile. Thank you. 😊
It means his pec are totally buff. He works out, you see.
Yup, shadow. The shadow of Carol’s head in the last frame is the same color.
What? So, dating is cool for fundies, but secular cartoon is not? ?
At a guess, you can’t be actively Not Having Sex if you don’t have anyone you could be having it with, but are choosing not to.
As long as they get married eventually it’s cool
You know, I like being able to see instances of Joyce’s mom not being horrible. That’s actually a fun interaction. And it hints that she didn’t have a problem with Joyce and Tristan either (as far as it went).
Which is good, because this will inevitably pivot.
This is still her being horrible, don’t be fooled.
augh forgot to change capitalization on my phone
In fairness to Joyce, I’ve also dated two Jewish women in my life, and they were indeed very scrumptious. ;3
I wonder if this woman will ever say anything that DOESN’T make me want to launch her into the sun
Something that makes you want to launch her into Betelgeuse instead?
What did the sun ever do to you?
Also, it is wasteful of reaction mass, it requires less delta-v to reach solar escape velocity.
All this talk about Polish Jews has me thinking of a certain town about two hundred kilometers northwest of Lviv… I’m told it was about half Jewish until… well, until. But yeah, we’ve all heard the jokes, right?
(I’m not sure how up others are on Eastern European geography, so I’m just going to say it: two hundred kilometers northwest of Lviv is Chelm. And I KNOW you’ve heard all the jokes about Chelm.)
Never heard of Chelm. What are the jokes?
I guess maybe I only know it since, in the States, we Catholics and the Jews have a bit of a common enemy. But yeah, it’s an old joke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_humor#Che%C5%82m
Let’s just say there’s a reason Stiller and Meara were a thing.
Ah, I see! Funny how there’s always one town everyone makes fun of, wherever you go.
Yeah, I can’t remember the jokes specifically – I think I’ll have to look them up – but the basic joke was “they’re idiots who don’t know they’re idiots.” I think historically, the town (about 60k today) was around half-Jewish until *coughcoughcough.*
A) She’s really just brushing past all those things, huh?
B) Joe is being pushed into family drama here in the first week of a relationship. That’s going to be… interesting.
C) I don’t see an issue with preferences as long as it’s not exclusionary.
D) For some reason Carol saying these words makes me think it’s somewhere on the racism scale, but I can’t quite place where.
It is a bunch early, but Joe’s been the friend she’s confided in about her family. I don’t disapprove, but it’s kind of a situation tailored exactly for him, to be a stand-up guy when it would be understandable for someone to nope out.
I’m sure there’s an implied undercurrent of antisemitism. My fiancé isn’t Jewish but has a very Jewish last name and I’ve had several family members be weird about it until they learn that he was raised Christian (even though neither of us are religious as adults).
I wonder if Tristan was *also* built like a brick house
Tristan Gronkowski
“I DON’T JUST LIKE JEWISH MEN! I ALSO LIKE JEWISH WOMEN! …. oh no did i say that out loud“
Joe running out of class for Joyce without a second thought has made me like him more than everything else he has done this Book.
Who the hell cares if he’s Jewish? Labels in society have created so much hate lately. A guy is who he is. His religion doesn’t matter. Same goes for a woman. Or whatever else we have out there now. It doesn’t matter. I go with Martin Luther King Jr. Judge a person by the content of their character. The rest? Foolish nonsense.
Not trying to stir shit if it isn’t, but is this a bit? “Cardinal Fan” is a little on the nose.
I mean Carol’s religion absolutely matters.
Lol.
Sooooo, Joyce does have a type it seems.
She really likes the men chosen by God.
idk if it’s been said, but
😀
oops, that broke my link and put my text as an alt text. now i feel like a very young boomer 😛