Well if the cracker becomes Jesus meat and then the Jesus meat becomes part of your meat, then by the transitive property … Carol is at least partially cracker, yes. Also, about 5.2% grape juice by volume.
As far as I’m concerned, Joyce is the one with that particular supernatural ability, both times she did it, he said it’s impossible for him to do anything about it, and then *she* did a thing and it worked both times.
My mother has tons of issues, but she only truly respected my husband after he stood up to her and threw her out. I doubt Carol is one of those people, but families are weird.
I got bullied by a guy like that in seventh grade. After I stood up to him, and the teacher agreed with me, he respected me and treated me like a friend. I still didn’t trust it but I was relieved he wasn’t picking on me anymore.
My wife is very very good at deflecting my father’s bullshit and giving back to him even more. She’s torn him a new butthole more than once. Pretty sure he respects her for it.
ah but he is also Jewish, which to carol means he is inferior because he rejects the word of christ, but is still “redeemable” because they believe in the same god, so therefore would grudgingly accept him for a little bit, believing that Joyce could turn him into a Good Christian Husband
If I were Carol I’d be on ChristianSingles.com (I don’t know if this is an actual website but it seems like a real website so don’t follow that link unless of course I am correct and you are a newly single christian looking for some action.)
i mean, not sure if she really respected jordan(?) for ‘choosing a diff path’ or whatever so idk if a bf willing to stand up to her parents is under her range of ‘acceptable behavior’
but yeah good that joe is on her side of course, wouldn’t be surprised if there were cases where a spouse sided with their in-laws/parents versus their partner
Joe has opinions when it comes to divorce and he has a hard time keeping those opinions to himself. Especially, it seems, for Joyce and her mental health.
I remember my parents arguing a lot so to me divorce was a relief. Maybe Joe was more attached to his family unit. Especially depending on the circumstances. My guess is his dad likely cheated, I think that’s pretty much confirmed, so I can see him being traumatized by it. The logistics of the split could also have been messy.
You can accept that divorce was the best choice for your parents in the end and still have issues with the chaos resulting from it — losing your childhood home and so forth.
Even if your parents were still married, them selling your childhood home would be hard. This is especially the case if you saw your home as a source of comfort and a place you could always go back to and be safe. I had a cousin who’s parents decide to move while she was in college (probably only 30min or so from where they had been). That didn’t even include dropping off her childhood stuff at her dorm like with Joyce. They didn’t even understand why she was upset, but I did.
This. I’ve only been divorced from one woman who was pretending to be Christian as a status symbol, but this aligns with my experience. Excuse: The kids aren’t changing their last name, and she’s still their mother.
i mean, being an overt antifeminist doesn’t mean she refuses every single thing that could possibly be construed as a feminist move. people say one thing and do another all the time, and then they figure out how to resolve the cognitive dissonance. anyway, being an antifeminist woman, as Andrea Dworking analyzed, is a tactical choice under patriarchy. it’s about protection and respect (which Dworkin warned, they wouldn’t actually obtain anyway) and negotiating some margin of freedom and fulfilment in exchange for playing the part.
You don’t have to agree with Dworkin on everything, but Right-Wing Women? good book. highly recommend.
Haven’t read that yet, but it reminds me of an analysis of benevolent sexism vs hostile sexism. The latter is what we commonly think of, while benevolent sexism is the chivalrous “men must protect women” version. In the face of hostile sexism, women will often push for the benevolent version as a matter of self-protection. As “a tactical choice under patriarchy”.
It’s still limiting and harmful of course – the benevolence is a mask – but it comes with the protection and a certain kind of respect. As long as they play the part.
i mean after a divorced is filed/penalized other than just changing names over accounts and stuff to get sent bills or whatever, ppl can easily say “oh i’m going by ms. x now” versus “you can still call me Mrs Brown”
How do you figure? She’s a dominionist christian, she doesn’t care about the so-called laws of the so-called state. It’s all secular and therefore unworthy of respect as far as she’s concerned.
In my experience, the handful of people I’ve interacted with who refuse to use a (visibly/out) trans person’s chosen name don’t have any problem with using preferred last names or preferred nicknames for cis people. One of them did have a problem using Ms. instead of Miss or Mrs.
Back in the old days, some people would have problems calling a married woman by anything other than her husband’s last name. Back when it first started to be a thing for some women to keep their name when getting married.
That was a previous generation though. Now it’s commonly accepted and those kinds of people have moved on to more recent changes.
friends of mine who work with their male partner X in agriculture tell me their common business referred to as “X’s farm” or at best, “X and his gf’s”, even when they do an even share or even most of the work.
This is where I tell the story of how my Mum wanted to keep her own name after marrying my Dad, and just found it was simpler not to.
First, her name was changed on her payslips without consulting her, and she wasn’t sure she could be bothered arguing the point. Then her mother called her at work, and when the receptionist said “Oh, you mean Miss [maiden name]?” Gran snapped that she wasn’t going by that name any more and the receptionist should know that. And Mum really couldn’t be bothered arguing the point there, so she just accepted it.
Come to think of it, Gran kept her married name after her and Grandad split up, but I don’t know if they ever actually got divorced, or just never spoke to each for as long as I can remember.
That actually depends on the settlement of the divorce, and probably where you are getting divorces. Here in France, divorced women need to go out of their way to keep their ex husband’s last name, and the judge can simply refuse.
Which is actually way harder for the women who basically have to add an administrative name change after that whole mess of getting divorced.
I can’t decide whether I think Joe is doing the right thing here in fighting the emotional battles Joyce can’t openly bring herself to fight, or the wrong in opening this door when Joyce didn’t want to blow things up. But either way, he’s doing all he can.
he seemed to complain to danny about amber and her mom not doing christmas in a specific way but not too emotionally/hurt about it
tho fully burning a bridge would be like “oh we’re totally going to have sex and you don’t have to worry about a grandkid” or physically shoving her from the room versus having ruth remove her
This isn’t burn-bridges level outburst. He knows divorce is the right decision sometimes, including his parents’ divorce, but I guess the combination of unresolved feelings from going through it, and Carol’s game with the boxes was overwhelming.
An apology here would probably enough to get them back to status quo.
Calling his mom later would be good for him longer term. Plus if he does, Karen introduction.
I think if he apologized to Joyce it’ll be okay. Sometimes partners overstep when it comes to parents and while the overstepping isn’t a great habit to have, the occasional “No how you’re treating them isn’t okay” usually isn’t a dealbreaker. Maybe not the smoothest way to start though.
Personally, as someone who dealt with passive aggressiveness (Which is what Carol is doing here with all those boxes and not being upfront with Joyce) for years, I can relate to Joe’s outburst a lot. You can’t just walk all over someone and expect everyone to be okay with it.
While an admirable sentiment, he asked Joyce for her preference and then ignored it. This is 100% a dick move. Joyce might not mind it, seeing his heart was in the right place, but the best place to have this conversation would have been with Joyce afterward in a nice, quiet situation where they could have talked out her feelings.
Not being able to control your emotions in a situation like this would necessitate removing yourself from said situation. While emotional breakdowns are real, a thing and absolutely something to consider, Joe does not appear to be having one anymore. It is hard to tell sometimes as the comic does play up some reactions for humor.
I’m not saying Joe, a literal child still, should be able to control his emotions or be aware enough of them to actually do it. I am however saying that it is something that should have been done. Ignoring that his outburst was a bit of hyper drama, it’s a well established tool of the comic, he still offered to do something in support of someone he cares about and failed with little provocation.
It’s something he definitely failed and ignored and denying it isn’t a healthy response. It doesn’t mean he is a bad person for, but it is still a dick move, which may necessitate an apology and some self reflection so that in the future Joe is aware of his limitations at the very least.
You can do a dick move and not be a dick, but only if you acknowledge the dick move and learn from it.
Danny, somewhere: *strums ukelele* “I tried so hard, and got so far…”
Anyway, sounds like we’re due for some more Joe backstory. I hope Willis gives us more in depth details on his parents’ divorce. Specifically how Joe felt, especially in regards to his mom (we already know how he felt about his dad.)
Even though Joe doesn’t have much contact with his mom, I think his feelings towards his dad kinda inform his feelings towards his mom in a way. Namely, that his dad was the ‘bad guy’ in the situation (obviously divorce doesn’t need a bad guy but you know, feelings) since he was cheating on his mother, enough that Joe both follows his father’s footsteps but seems to be trying to avoid the same mistakes because he doesn’t wanna hurt anyone like his mother was hurt.
That and comparing his mom favorably to Joyce as far as being like “hey, my mom has been trying to get diagnosed with autism and has trouble, ergo I don’t view you potentially being diagnosed as a bad thing”, definitely means he has good feelings towards his mom. He just doesn’t verbalize it or tell her because that’s emotional vulnerability and Joe’s only just learning how to be vulnerable.
That does feel weird when it is a peer’s parents. Though eventually, I guess, we will all (hopefully) get to the point where a lot of our peers are parents and it would be weird if you started calling Nick, who you’ve known since the third grade, Mr. McGillacutty.
I have gone to GREAT lengths to never directly address my friends parents by name because all options feel awkward to me. Even though I really liked them…
It’s normal where I grew up (BC Canada, specifically the coast but I think it’s done province or even country wide). “Mr/Mrs/Mx/etc” is for teachers and maybe professionals who aren’t doctors or professors. No sirs or ma’ams or anything either, unless you’re in a really formal setting. It would have been weird to call my friends’ parents (or my parents’ friends, for that matter) anything but their names.
^ I’m from Ontario and yeah, same. I tried to call one of the other girls’ dads at my karate class “Mr.” when I was little and he looked at me like I had two heads and said “What the hell? It’s (Nickname)”.
Even as a kid i never got why elders “deserved” respect. My rule of thumb is, mimic the other person’s level of respect. In french there’s a respectful and a familiar 2nd-person pronoun (“vous” vs “tu”), so it’s essentially impossible to avoid making a decision about “respect level” in any interaction.
When i was younger i actually kind of enjoyed the reaction of older people using “tu” towards me and expecting “vous” back, but instead getting talked to in the familiar form by this cheeky kid. The reactions were really telling i think. Some were confused, some didn’t seem to care, some would grow hostile, some were actually delighted. Nowadays people typically clock me as an adult (although i never stopped dressing like a teenager, its wild how many years wearing a formless hoodie will shave off in people’s eyes) so i sadly can’t play that game anymore.
A lot of this is regional. The strip is set in the Midwest where yeah. I still can’t call my in-laws by their first names. In California people seem to have no problem with first names for everyone. In the south there’s this weird thing where kids add miz or mister to first names until they hit a certain age and it switches to ma’am and sir.
It’s also cultural. Most “call me by my first name” parents I know are white while the boggest sticklers for the “call me Mr./Ms.” Tend to be POC. Dunno why that is but of I vould hazard a guess there’s much more of a “reject tradition” element to Caucasian parents while a lot of POC want to hold on to their culture and therefore their traditions. Which includes traditional roles and junk.
Maybe the kids with “embrace tradition” white parents didn’t want you to meet each other, because I ran into them with equal (or higher) frequency than non-white parents.
That’s how I read it. The situation just opened up the wound. Kinda like when you lose a loved one and are generally fine during the ritual of the funeral and whatnot. But then down the road, something tangentially reminds you of them or their passing and you just lose it.
“Childhood home”? Oh Joe, I see you haven’t realized the scope of the problem.
A dormitory is a temporary residence. It may be where she’s living most of the time at the moment, but it isn’t Joyce’s permanent address.
Carol has sold Joyce’s current home. She’s homeless.
Also she hired an assassin who tried to murder her.
A dorm isn’t really a home, they kick you out at breaks and at the end of every semester. And sometimes they suddenly they lock the door behind you (with all of your stuff) when you go off for spring break, because of pandemic panic.
I had only brought enough clothes for a week with me when that happened. Everybody else in my family is smaller than me, so I couldn’t borrow any of their stuff. It was… very not fun.
Did they ever let you come back to pick stuff up? My university at least let me come back to get mine, but I had to get special permission to wait a week after their cutoff date because I didn’t have enough space in my car to haul it alone and our van was… in the shop, I think.
I do, but I need to donate some of it. I have a lot of coats, and also through weight gain and transitioning I ended up with a lot of clothes I don’t wear. I do still have a lot I wear as well though. With the coats it would probably still take up most of a car.
Eh. Whether a dorm counts as home depends on the individual. My dorm absolutely was my home, regardless of how temporary it was. In fact, walking back from the dinning hall on my first night on campus was actually the first time in around five or six years that I’d really felt at home. And that wasn’t a brief fluke or anything. Whichever dorm I happened to be living in as well as the campus in general continued to feel like home for the full duration of my attendance. In contrast, visiting my family during breaks didn’t feel like “going home;” it felt like visiting, complete with that faint but slowly building stress from being away from home that would only be relieved when I finally came back to school at the end of the break.
if he did move out to an apartment, even if he didn’t anticipate a kid or to visiting or outright needing a longer term place to stay, i’d think a dentist salary’s would be enough to get him a one bedroom apartment with one guest room hopefully rather than a dingy “one room is everything” and one bathroom type thing
Then again if their divorced isnt finalized/he hasn’t gotten around to telling joyce about it, he might be staying in a local hotel for the time being
Joyce wasn’t going back to live with Carol regardless of Carol selling the house. Losing the childhood home is traumatic anyway, but she’s not homeless in any meaningful sense.
Parents divorcing while you’re in college doesn’t mean they’re leaving you on the street.
That just made it worse, you see. Because it was all so visible. (Of course she is a good christian and thus didn’t wan’t to rush to conclusions. No, she wet to great lenghths to confirm just how offensive this boy’s anatomy was.)
Maybe he’s gotten all the shouting out of the way so they can have a pleasant meal together? Just surprising Joyce still cares to impress her mother but the trauma and brainwashing must be very deep. How difficult it must be to realize your entire family and everyone you grew up with are hateful cultists, who’d rather see you and your best friend dead than free.
Personally, I think it’d be funny if Carol’s maiden name was already “Brown,” and now she’s trying to find a new husband purely to acquire a last name that isn’t also Hank’s.
i think second cousins are accepted but would def make things awkward for kids
i imagine most ppl would avoid it just in case though, or some ppl in school i knew talking about ppl with similar names like “i don’t want them to think we’re alabama cousins” or so ueven if it’s a really common name
Naw slightly off and he’d B-flat. And I don’t think hed wish that on anyone. But he could figure it out. He’s A-sharp boy. Honestly. Hes A-natural at this. And a snappy dresser too. A real Sharp G. And he makes it look so effortless. He’s a Natural G. He should call his dorm the G-flat. And whaddya know we’re back to F.
I kinda just noticed that Carol has the shorter arms for her height you usually find in the small town not quite inbred but undiversified gene pools. My love has it, her parents only figured out they were like 3rd cousins probably thru marriage at a funeral, 6 years into the relationship.
I mean or maybe its an artistic choice to make her look more of a fundamentalist goblin. Yeah look. Slightly taller than joyce. Slighly shorter arms, wrists not at the same height independent of what the hands are doing. Hum. Or have I just huffed too much canadian smoke in the last few days? *Shrug*
Joe was always a middle ground character for me. As in I never hated hated him, nor was he my favorite. He was just there.
This strip squarely puts him in the like category. Even if it ends badly (like him and Joyce having a fight or something) it will have been worth it just because he owned the mom. Seriously, eff that lady.
Carol’s got the sparkly eyes in the last panel that show she’s emotionally affected by this. Do I expect her to respect Joe for this? No, she gives me big “you should defer to me/God (who conveniently agrees with me) at all times” vibes. But is she at least going to feel bad for dumping all this on Joyce? …Shit, I hope so.
When my parents divorced, I moved across the country before I found out. I don’t think my mom knew what to tell me, being age nine. The final clue was a piece of reply mail where my mom had checked the Divorced box. I reacted like Joe on the inside, then kept it together like panel 4 face for the rest of my childhood.
Thank you, Joe, for saying everything I needed to but never did.
Oh man my husband does this sometimes and while yeah there have been times I’m like “babe just stfu so we can keep the peace and gtf outta here faster” really I appreciate his willingness to stand up for me when he knows I’m struggling to do so and why.
Sort of a tangent, but a lot of the cast with jobs work at Galasso’s.
(Joyce is going to need a permanent address, probably Hank’s new address but maybe Jocelyne’s or whatever Becky is writing down. And she’ll need a place to stay over the summer, possibly not the same place. And maybe a job because that could cost money and that could be getting complicated with the divorce. Most of the cast doesn’t even have part time work, but they’re freshmen, so that tracks. Becky and Lucy both have jobs though, both at Galasso’s. Jason works there with questionable paperwork. And Sayid and Ken work there too.)
-> a lot of the cast with jobs work at Galasso’s. ->
(Sayid has two jobs, one on campus. Ken’s roommate is Arnold, I wonder if Arnold has a job. Maybe Joyce will get a job where Arnold works, and when Dorothy is looking for Joyce some time, she’ll run into Arnold and that’s their meet cute)
Founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network. He’s an arrogant asshole who blamed hurricanes and 9/11 on gay people and is responsible for ushering Christian Conservatism into mainstream politics, and now he is no longer with us, thankfully.
Some loser chump who helped ruin his home country for money Jesus. This ain’t an original thought, but at least he’s opening up a gender-neutral bathroom.
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gave it the old college try
I was trying to find a good pun using “Carol” and a generator came up with Cracker Carol and, uh
I mean, she is.
Well if the cracker becomes Jesus meat and then the Jesus meat becomes part of your meat, then by the transitive property … Carol is at least partially cracker, yes. Also, about 5.2% grape juice by volume.
You only think the offering *literally* becomes the body of Christ if you’re Catholic. You aren’t misguided enough to be Catholic, are you?
I’m a recovering Catholic .. and when I heard that it’s supposedly literally turned into Jesus’ body .. I, age 8, said “WE’RE CANNIBALS?!”
Well, I mean, uh, yeah.
Yeah she’s EXACTLY what you call a crooked old cracker! 😤
How about “A Christ Mess Carol”?
Love it!
Nice! If only she wouldn’t show up more than once a year.
I don’t know what I’m more impressed with Joe about, that he held it in for as long as he did or that he actually managed to retract his stubble.
As far as I’m concerned, Joyce is the one with that particular supernatural ability, both times she did it, he said it’s impossible for him to do anything about it, and then *she* did a thing and it worked both times.
“Bright College Days” or “Stand Old Ivy”?
More than Carol deserved. Until panel 5, that was beautiful and yet still less than she deserved. You go Joe!
He was so close!
Good boy Joe
Joe, yes!
Up boy!
Joe giving both versions of good boyfriend inside six seconds. Not a bad performance.
Granted, the bar was pretty low, but I’d say he did a pretty damn good job there.
Even the outburst demonstrated that he fully respects Joyce, so no points deducted from his score.
Yeah, that’s a “concern” face not an “anger” face.
I wouldn’t have lasted half as long.
i love him
yes same, my heart is so full
If I were Carol I’d actually respect him more for this.
If you were Carol I think things would already be going very differently…
My mother has tons of issues, but she only truly respected my husband after he stood up to her and threw her out. I doubt Carol is one of those people, but families are weird.
I got bullied by a guy like that in seventh grade. After I stood up to him, and the teacher agreed with me, he respected me and treated me like a friend. I still didn’t trust it but I was relieved he wasn’t picking on me anymore.
My wife is very very good at deflecting my father’s bullshit and giving back to him even more. She’s torn him a new butthole more than once. Pretty sure he respects her for it.
Yeah evidence heavily suggests Carol is very much a “defer to me and agree completely or it’s disrespectful” type, especially from kids.
Joe does have the advantage of being male and therefore in theory an approved asserted of authority, though.
ah but he is also Jewish, which to carol means he is inferior because he rejects the word of christ, but is still “redeemable” because they believe in the same god, so therefore would grudgingly accept him for a little bit, believing that Joyce could turn him into a Good Christian Husband
If I were Carol I’d be on ChristianSingles.com (I don’t know if this is an actual website but it seems like a real website so don’t follow that link unless of course I am correct and you are a newly single christian looking for some action.)
You’re close, it’s mingle.
There are a lot of weird christian dating sites, there is ChristianMingle.com which is probably what you remember.
ChristianMingle.com is in fact a Christian dating website.
i mean, not sure if she really respected jordan(?) for ‘choosing a diff path’ or whatever so idk if a bf willing to stand up to her parents is under her range of ‘acceptable behavior’
but yeah good that joe is on her side of course, wouldn’t be surprised if there were cases where a spouse sided with their in-laws/parents versus their partner
Aw, sweetie
joe/joyce/becky/ruth/amber, who(m)ever else needs to start a ‘dead/divorced parents’ support group
Monkey Master is about to jump out from the poster.
“Joe’s efforts to impress will be a disaster!
But I don’t give a @#%&, cuz I’m Monkey Master!”
Yeah let her have it Joe!!!!
ORA ORA ORA ORA!!!!
*plays “Stardust Crusaders” from JoJo’s Bizarre OST*
OH MY GOD!
Go, Joe, GO!
That is very cute dog in your avatar picture. Is he yours?
aw man
well he gave it his best shot
Joe has opinions when it comes to divorce and he has a hard time keeping those opinions to himself. Especially, it seems, for Joyce and her mental health.
Especially especially since he’s decided to be a person who can have emotions, instead of a sex machine that doesn’t have any feelings.
Ooofff, that was very blunt, but considering Joe’s past I understand his inability to keep his mouth shut.
Although, can /anyone/ keep their mouths shut around Carol? She’s so easily hateable.
nooooo, divorce is supposed to be good for joe!
then again I am biased cause when my parents divorced I was just glad it was finally over
I remember my parents arguing a lot so to me divorce was a relief. Maybe Joe was more attached to his family unit. Especially depending on the circumstances. My guess is his dad likely cheated, I think that’s pretty much confirmed, so I can see him being traumatized by it. The logistics of the split could also have been messy.
And we haven’t met his mother. We don’t know how it effected her.
We’ve seen his Mom at least in one Patreon strip.
Yeahhh “happy family unit till one parent nuked it” is very different from “hell household with two people who should’ve never met”
You can accept that divorce was the best choice for your parents in the end and still have issues with the chaos resulting from it — losing your childhood home and so forth.
Yeah, this sounds like it’s coming from a place of “I know you guys are a mess together, but don’t dump all that on me.”
Even if your parents were still married, them selling your childhood home would be hard. This is especially the case if you saw your home as a source of comfort and a place you could always go back to and be safe. I had a cousin who’s parents decide to move while she was in college (probably only 30min or so from where they had been). That didn’t even include dropping off her childhood stuff at her dorm like with Joyce. They didn’t even understand why she was upset, but I did.
Carol’s mistake was not bringing a scooter.
first half meme.gif
Honestly he did better then I expected given the circumstances
joe freaking out even more would prolly actually calm joyce down in comparison lol , sometimes that’s effective
Good job, Joe!
Stubble is about to grow back from stress
I’m just amazed Joyce was able to enchant it away for a while!
I’d say it’s his abductee superpower, but we’re in the wrong universe for that.
After his outburst, the rebound will give him a full beard.
The faithful, the wrathful, and the wonderful – and yet their stomachs are all empty. Oh, the irony.
To his credit, Joe held out for all of five seconds before going nuclear.
My man was like, “Naw, this band-aid is coming off right the hell now…”
I mean, unless she went out of her way to change her name back her last name would still be Brown.
She doesn’t seem feminist enough to change her name back. If he had some kind of title like Doctor or Reverend she would probably keep using that too.
This. I’ve only been divorced from one woman who was pretending to be Christian as a status symbol, but this aligns with my experience. Excuse: The kids aren’t changing their last name, and she’s still their mother.
i mean, being an overt antifeminist doesn’t mean she refuses every single thing that could possibly be construed as a feminist move. people say one thing and do another all the time, and then they figure out how to resolve the cognitive dissonance. anyway, being an antifeminist woman, as Andrea Dworking analyzed, is a tactical choice under patriarchy. it’s about protection and respect (which Dworkin warned, they wouldn’t actually obtain anyway) and negotiating some margin of freedom and fulfilment in exchange for playing the part.
You don’t have to agree with Dworkin on everything, but Right-Wing Women? good book. highly recommend.
Haven’t read that yet, but it reminds me of an analysis of benevolent sexism vs hostile sexism. The latter is what we commonly think of, while benevolent sexism is the chivalrous “men must protect women” version. In the face of hostile sexism, women will often push for the benevolent version as a matter of self-protection. As “a tactical choice under patriarchy”.
It’s still limiting and harmful of course – the benevolence is a mask – but it comes with the protection and a certain kind of respect. As long as they play the part.
i mean after a divorced is filed/penalized other than just changing names over accounts and stuff to get sent bills or whatever, ppl can easily say “oh i’m going by ms. x now” versus “you can still call me Mrs Brown”
Yeah or even without an actual divorce. People can just ask to be called something and it’s actually polite of Joe not to assume either way
Although Carol doesn’t really seem the type to respect “although my legal name is X, I’d prefer it if you call me Y”.
How do you figure? She’s a dominionist christian, she doesn’t care about the so-called laws of the so-called state. It’s all secular and therefore unworthy of respect as far as she’s concerned.
Oh wait, i read too fast. You mean Carol wouldn’t respect someone else’s wishes to be called by their chosen name…
Yeah. Especially if she found out, say, one of her children was trans or something.
However, that is a bad reason not to respect her (possible) wish not to still be called by her husband’s name.
In my experience, the handful of people I’ve interacted with who refuse to use a (visibly/out) trans person’s chosen name don’t have any problem with using preferred last names or preferred nicknames for cis people. One of them did have a problem using Ms. instead of Miss or Mrs.
Back in the old days, some people would have problems calling a married woman by anything other than her husband’s last name. Back when it first started to be a thing for some women to keep their name when getting married.
That was a previous generation though. Now it’s commonly accepted and those kinds of people have moved on to more recent changes.
friends of mine who work with their male partner X in agriculture tell me their common business referred to as “X’s farm” or at best, “X and his gf’s”, even when they do an even share or even most of the work.
so yeah, old ways die hard =/
This is where I tell the story of how my Mum wanted to keep her own name after marrying my Dad, and just found it was simpler not to.
First, her name was changed on her payslips without consulting her, and she wasn’t sure she could be bothered arguing the point. Then her mother called her at work, and when the receptionist said “Oh, you mean Miss [maiden name]?” Gran snapped that she wasn’t going by that name any more and the receptionist should know that. And Mum really couldn’t be bothered arguing the point there, so she just accepted it.
Come to think of it, Gran kept her married name after her and Grandad split up, but I don’t know if they ever actually got divorced, or just never spoke to each for as long as I can remember.
Was Gran your mum’s mum or your dad’s mum or someone else?
Maybe she got the name in the settlement, and Joyce’s father goes by Hank Green now.
That actually depends on the settlement of the divorce, and probably where you are getting divorces. Here in France, divorced women need to go out of their way to keep their ex husband’s last name, and the judge can simply refuse.
Which is actually way harder for the women who basically have to add an administrative name change after that whole mess of getting divorced.
He lasted longer than most of us would, let’s be real.
Well, he tried.
I can’t decide whether I think Joe is doing the right thing here in fighting the emotional battles Joyce can’t openly bring herself to fight, or the wrong in opening this door when Joyce didn’t want to blow things up. But either way, he’s doing all he can.
Joe’s parents got divorced when he was younger and I think that explain his reaction.
he seemed to complain to danny about amber and her mom not doing christmas in a specific way but not too emotionally/hurt about it
tho fully burning a bridge would be like “oh we’re totally going to have sex and you don’t have to worry about a grandkid” or physically shoving her from the room versus having ruth remove her
Yes. This is more about Joe’s unresolved issues with his folks’ divorce filtered through his concern for Joyce. I’m ok with that.
It’s good Joe is defending Joyce and not being passive, whether this was a good strategy remains to be seen
This isn’t burn-bridges level outburst. He knows divorce is the right decision sometimes, including his parents’ divorce, but I guess the combination of unresolved feelings from going through it, and Carol’s game with the boxes was overwhelming.
An apology here would probably enough to get them back to status quo.
Calling his mom later would be good for him longer term. Plus if he does, Karen introduction.
I think if he apologized to Joyce it’ll be okay. Sometimes partners overstep when it comes to parents and while the overstepping isn’t a great habit to have, the occasional “No how you’re treating them isn’t okay” usually isn’t a dealbreaker. Maybe not the smoothest way to start though.
Personally, as someone who dealt with passive aggressiveness (Which is what Carol is doing here with all those boxes and not being upfront with Joyce) for years, I can relate to Joe’s outburst a lot. You can’t just walk all over someone and expect everyone to be okay with it.
While an admirable sentiment, he asked Joyce for her preference and then ignored it. This is 100% a dick move. Joyce might not mind it, seeing his heart was in the right place, but the best place to have this conversation would have been with Joyce afterward in a nice, quiet situation where they could have talked out her feelings.
All this does is satisfy his own anger.
He didn’t remotely ignore it? He tried his best, then just kidn of had an emotional blowout. Trying and failing isn’t “ignoring”.
+1
Not being able to control your emotions in a situation like this would necessitate removing yourself from said situation. While emotional breakdowns are real, a thing and absolutely something to consider, Joe does not appear to be having one anymore. It is hard to tell sometimes as the comic does play up some reactions for humor.
I’m not saying Joe, a literal child still, should be able to control his emotions or be aware enough of them to actually do it. I am however saying that it is something that should have been done. Ignoring that his outburst was a bit of hyper drama, it’s a well established tool of the comic, he still offered to do something in support of someone he cares about and failed with little provocation.
It’s something he definitely failed and ignored and denying it isn’t a healthy response. It doesn’t mean he is a bad person for, but it is still a dick move, which may necessitate an apology and some self reflection so that in the future Joe is aware of his limitations at the very least.
You can do a dick move and not be a dick, but only if you acknowledge the dick move and learn from it.
Danny, somewhere: *strums ukelele* “I tried so hard, and got so far…”
Anyway, sounds like we’re due for some more Joe backstory. I hope Willis gives us more in depth details on his parents’ divorce. Specifically how Joe felt, especially in regards to his mom (we already know how he felt about his dad.)
Wow, Danny with Linkin Park on the uke…not a bad concept.
It’s been done before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtiF2bOMHz0
Even though Joe doesn’t have much contact with his mom, I think his feelings towards his dad kinda inform his feelings towards his mom in a way. Namely, that his dad was the ‘bad guy’ in the situation (obviously divorce doesn’t need a bad guy but you know, feelings) since he was cheating on his mother, enough that Joe both follows his father’s footsteps but seems to be trying to avoid the same mistakes because he doesn’t wanna hurt anyone like his mother was hurt.
That and comparing his mom favorably to Joyce as far as being like “hey, my mom has been trying to get diagnosed with autism and has trouble, ergo I don’t view you potentially being diagnosed as a bad thing”, definitely means he has good feelings towards his mom. He just doesn’t verbalize it or tell her because that’s emotional vulnerability and Joe’s only just learning how to be vulnerable.
Who else here feels weird being on a first name basis with someone’s parents. It just feels WRONG to me.
I’m the opposite. I’d take being told to call them “Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs/Dr (whatever)” as a sign they’re really stuffy at best or didn’t like me at worst.
Its Mr. Dr. Prof. Patrick to you.
That does feel weird when it is a peer’s parents. Though eventually, I guess, we will all (hopefully) get to the point where a lot of our peers are parents and it would be weird if you started calling Nick, who you’ve known since the third grade, Mr. McGillacutty.
i’ve never address my friends parents even by last name lol , more awkward if your parent and friend are named the siame/similar tho
Same.
I have gone to GREAT lengths to never directly address my friends parents by name because all options feel awkward to me. Even though I really liked them…
My in-laws only suggested reaching that level of familiarity after we got married.
It’s normal where I grew up (BC Canada, specifically the coast but I think it’s done province or even country wide). “Mr/Mrs/Mx/etc” is for teachers and maybe professionals who aren’t doctors or professors. No sirs or ma’ams or anything either, unless you’re in a really formal setting. It would have been weird to call my friends’ parents (or my parents’ friends, for that matter) anything but their names.
^ I’m from Ontario and yeah, same. I tried to call one of the other girls’ dads at my karate class “Mr.” when I was little and he looked at me like I had two heads and said “What the hell? It’s (Nickname)”.
Even as a kid i never got why elders “deserved” respect. My rule of thumb is, mimic the other person’s level of respect. In french there’s a respectful and a familiar 2nd-person pronoun (“vous” vs “tu”), so it’s essentially impossible to avoid making a decision about “respect level” in any interaction.
When i was younger i actually kind of enjoyed the reaction of older people using “tu” towards me and expecting “vous” back, but instead getting talked to in the familiar form by this cheeky kid. The reactions were really telling i think. Some were confused, some didn’t seem to care, some would grow hostile, some were actually delighted. Nowadays people typically clock me as an adult (although i never stopped dressing like a teenager, its wild how many years wearing a formless hoodie will shave off in people’s eyes) so i sadly can’t play that game anymore.
Anyway, that was a roundabout way of saying. Nah
A lot of this is regional. The strip is set in the Midwest where yeah. I still can’t call my in-laws by their first names. In California people seem to have no problem with first names for everyone. In the south there’s this weird thing where kids add miz or mister to first names until they hit a certain age and it switches to ma’am and sir.
It’s also cultural. Most “call me by my first name” parents I know are white while the boggest sticklers for the “call me Mr./Ms.” Tend to be POC. Dunno why that is but of I vould hazard a guess there’s much more of a “reject tradition” element to Caucasian parents while a lot of POC want to hold on to their culture and therefore their traditions. Which includes traditional roles and junk.
Maybe the kids with “embrace tradition” white parents didn’t want you to meet each other, because I ran into them with equal (or higher) frequency than non-white parents.
Where I grew up in Appalachia, we didn’t have the “Mr./Mrs. Surname” thing because that was too stuffy, but first-names were too informal.
I spent my childhood saying shit like “Hi, Brian. Hi, Brian’s Mom.”
I’m beginning to feel like asking friends or their parents directly what I should call them was not typical behavior.
But maybe it should be?
He tried
He means well, but given all the issues buttons being punched right now I can’t blame him for not keeping it together.
FINALLY! VICTORY!!!!
Congrats!!!!
Your efforts have not been in vain.
i guess joe still has some unresolved issues with his parents’ divorce? or just hardcore emphasizing with joyce
A bit of column A, bit of of column B
That’s how I read it. The situation just opened up the wound. Kinda like when you lose a loved one and are generally fine during the ritual of the funeral and whatnot. But then down the road, something tangentially reminds you of them or their passing and you just lose it.
Happened to me a few times.
Bless him he tried.
“Childhood home”? Oh Joe, I see you haven’t realized the scope of the problem.
A dormitory is a temporary residence. It may be where she’s living most of the time at the moment, but it isn’t Joyce’s permanent address.
Carol has sold Joyce’s current home. She’s homeless.
Also she hired an assassin who tried to murder her.
A dorm isn’t really a home, they kick you out at breaks and at the end of every semester. And sometimes they suddenly they lock the door behind you (with all of your stuff) when you go off for spring break, because of pandemic panic.
I had only brought enough clothes for a week with me when that happened. Everybody else in my family is smaller than me, so I couldn’t borrow any of their stuff. It was… very not fun.
Did they ever let you come back to pick stuff up? My university at least let me come back to get mine, but I had to get special permission to wait a week after their cutoff date because I didn’t have enough space in my car to haul it alone and our van was… in the shop, I think.
Wait, how much clothing do you have that it doesn’t fit in a car?
Or is your car unusually tiny and/or impractically shaped?
I do, but I need to donate some of it. I have a lot of coats, and also through weight gain and transitioning I ended up with a lot of clothes I don’t wear. I do still have a lot I wear as well though. With the coats it would probably still take up most of a car.
Maybe they also i had a giant dromeiosaur plush in their dorm room.
Eh. Whether a dorm counts as home depends on the individual. My dorm absolutely was my home, regardless of how temporary it was. In fact, walking back from the dinning hall on my first night on campus was actually the first time in around five or six years that I’d really felt at home. And that wasn’t a brief fluke or anything. Whichever dorm I happened to be living in as well as the campus in general continued to feel like home for the full duration of my attendance. In contrast, visiting my family during breaks didn’t feel like “going home;” it felt like visiting, complete with that faint but slowly building stress from being away from home that would only be relieved when I finally came back to school at the end of the break.
Gosh, I should have written a comment about that.
Does Hank not have a place to live?
if he did move out to an apartment, even if he didn’t anticipate a kid or to visiting or outright needing a longer term place to stay, i’d think a dentist salary’s would be enough to get him a one bedroom apartment with one guest room hopefully rather than a dingy “one room is everything” and one bathroom type thing
Then again if their divorced isnt finalized/he hasn’t gotten around to telling joyce about it, he might be staying in a local hotel for the time being
…. wow Joyce IS homeless, isn’t she?
Joyce wasn’t going back to live with Carol regardless of Carol selling the house. Losing the childhood home is traumatic anyway, but she’s not homeless in any meaningful sense.
Parents divorcing while you’re in college doesn’t mean they’re leaving you on the street.
It does if your mom hired an assassin to try to kill you and also sold your permanent residence.
I think Joe may have his own issues when it comes to divorce, just putting it out there.
Oh boy, O no
Carol Channing
The plan was doomed from the start anyway. Carol already saw Joe’s sex tape. Several times. Because it was so offensive, of course.
So offensive she watched it five times just so she could really appreciate how well built he . . . I mean how offensive the video was.
To really appreciate how offensively well built he was.
That just made it worse, you see. Because it was all so visible. (Of course she is a good christian and thus didn’t wan’t to rush to conclusions. No, she wet to great lenghths to confirm just how offensive this boy’s anatomy was.)
she moist certainly wouldn’t want to judge hastily.
as Jesus famously taught, if someone slaps you on the cheek, turn the other cheek and moan “oh yes daddy”.
i wonder if there was a community of parents who knew/informed at the time when it broke out
be hilariously messed up if his dad shared it around too as a ‘brag’
i love that joe speaking his mind is played in a very different and wholesome way here.
Maybe he’s gotten all the shouting out of the way so they can have a pleasant meal together? Just surprising Joyce still cares to impress her mother but the trauma and brainwashing must be very deep. How difficult it must be to realize your entire family and everyone you grew up with are hateful cultists, who’d rather see you and your best friend dead than free.
I’m not sure it’s that she cares to impress her so much as it is she’s not ready to fully burn that bridge yet
i mean even getting it off my chest i’d def need distance for a day or two otherwise a meal right away would be awkward
Tho i feel like ‘shouting matches between family before dinner’ happens quite al ot if not during dinner. like thanksgiving memes and all that
I’m NOT overly invested in this. But I did yell out loud, “Oh NOO, baby has feelings!!!” over that last panel.
I’m loving how effortlessly and easily these two are with each other
It seems the most natural thing in the word for them to be together
God I love Joe. This is exactly what I wanted. Yes. Yessssss.
I was honestly wondering why Joyce was being…. cordial…. with her mom, let alone would want to get lunch with her.
Absolutely could not hold it in and I am so very happy for this.
You dropped this, king 👑
He really did amazingly well considering
Willis, if you do a storyline cut here.
Joe’s one true weakness: feels
My avatar says the contrary to what you say about divorce, Joe.
It’s complicated, I suppose.
Well, he hasn’t gotten a scooter out of it here, has he?
Personally, I think it’d be funny if Carol’s maiden name was already “Brown,” and now she’s trying to find a new husband purely to acquire a last name that isn’t also Hank’s.
This was meant to be a reply to Dr. T’s comment above.
i think second cousins are accepted but would def make things awkward for kids
i imagine most ppl would avoid it just in case though, or some ppl in school i knew talking about ppl with similar names like “i don’t want them to think we’re alabama cousins” or so ueven if it’s a really common name
He put up a decent fight, I guess.
well i don’t think carol would necessarily ‘back down’ but at the same time she probably might not saty as long as intended
Way to ease it in, didn’t even need a trip to FARMbloomington.
This even makes Hank and Carol’s divorce more tumultuous
And Joe manages to hit exactly the right note with Carol.
…..
… I’m still not sure which of those notes was the right note, but it was one of them.
B natural.
F… But played slightly off.
F-off.
Naw slightly off and he’d B-flat. And I don’t think hed wish that on anyone. But he could figure it out. He’s A-sharp boy. Honestly. Hes A-natural at this. And a snappy dresser too. A real Sharp G. And he makes it look so effortless. He’s a Natural G. He should call his dorm the G-flat. And whaddya know we’re back to F.
and when the big day comes, we hope Joe can hit that G with his instrument.
You C?
He’s D bomb dot com!
Would it be 100% too much “Carrie” if her name was Carol White?
You mean the Stephen King horror movie? Pika pika?
Oh, that has layers. I like it.
Well Joe, you definitely failed. But honestly I respect you more for failing this one.
To be fair, I think his opinions align quite well with those that are recorded as Jesus’s.
And yet Joe WAS apparently able to ungrow his 5 o’clock shadow
Surprised he lasted THAT long!
Joe clearly held out for as long as he could.
Oh 🙁 , his parents’ divorce really hurt Joe a lot, didn’t it?
I vote Carol’s maiden name is Green.
shouldn’t have called him “Joseph”
Joe is a Good Egg
oh good the first panels had me worried
Good effort, Joe.
That’s the most attractive Joe has been throughout the comic
Go OFF Joe!
Joe, YES!
Atta boy, Joe
(also are we just going to ignore that god speaks to her in dreams or)
I mean… people have weird dreams all the time.
It just takes a certain kind of person to decide that the dream was an authoritative message rather than some weird stuff your brain cobbled together.
I mean, people have predicted real events before coincidentally because dreams can be ANYTHING at ANY TIME.
But you do have to be a certain level of malleable to take a dream as literal or the ‘words of God’ rather than just weird brain madness.
I don’t think Joyce has told him that yet.
Admirable restraint, Joe
Joe, we’re already applauding for you, no need to sell it
That lunch was probably doomed anyway. Imagine everyone being polite for an hour under the hot breath of all the elephants in the room.
Sooner or later something like this would have happened
Mixed signals much?
There is not a chance in hell she’s not going to try to give him the “good news,” is there?
Carol Christmas?
I kinda just noticed that Carol has the shorter arms for her height you usually find in the small town not quite inbred but undiversified gene pools. My love has it, her parents only figured out they were like 3rd cousins probably thru marriage at a funeral, 6 years into the relationship.
I mean or maybe its an artistic choice to make her look more of a fundamentalist goblin. Yeah look. Slightly taller than joyce. Slighly shorter arms, wrists not at the same height independent of what the hands are doing. Hum. Or have I just huffed too much canadian smoke in the last few days? *Shrug*
Poor Joe XD he has trauma I share.
Never thought I would love Joe so much
He’s not wrong
So close.
Glad he couldn’t hold it back, though. It needed to be said, I think.
This is why you don’t ungrow stubble; it drains all your mental resources
Also, Carol’s last name is Carol
“Some people go both ways.” — the Scarecrow
Maybe Joe decided, “let’s play it both ways. Keep her off balance.”
He’s really grown, hasn’t he
Update: I no longer ship Joe and Joyce, I now ship Joe and ME.
Joe was always a middle ground character for me. As in I never hated hated him, nor was he my favorite. He was just there.
This strip squarely puts him in the like category. Even if it ends badly (like him and Joyce having a fight or something) it will have been worth it just because he owned the mom. Seriously, eff that lady.
Honestly he did the best he could, childhood trauma is a tough thing to keep down.
That’s what we call a critical failure on on Joe’s self restraint roll.
okay yeah admittedly the wrong person to call in as backup for this specific situation.
No, this is exactly the correct person to call in as backup for this specific situation.
Carol’s got the sparkly eyes in the last panel that show she’s emotionally affected by this. Do I expect her to respect Joe for this? No, she gives me big “you should defer to me/God (who conveniently agrees with me) at all times” vibes. But is she at least going to feel bad for dumping all this on Joyce? …Shit, I hope so.
Joe is Correct.
ahem… “GO JOE!!”
and knowing is half the battle.
The only thing worse than divorce is parents who should get divorced not doing so out of misguided beliefs that it’s “better for the kids.”
Also, yes, GO JOE!
Screw keeping the peace CALL PEOPLE OUT ON THEIR BS clap clap for Joe
Holding onto fake peace is exactly the same as being a liar 24/7.
Team Joe.
When my parents divorced, I moved across the country before I found out. I don’t think my mom knew what to tell me, being age nine. The final clue was a piece of reply mail where my mom had checked the Divorced box. I reacted like Joe on the inside, then kept it together like panel 4 face for the rest of my childhood.
Thank you, Joe, for saying everything I needed to but never did.
Please note Joe never said he’d respect Carol. In fact, he’s demonstrating his respect for Joyce right now.
Oh Joseph….. Never change <3
Joe, you tried. You tried.
That’s love, babey!!
Oh man my husband does this sometimes and while yeah there have been times I’m like “babe just stfu so we can keep the peace and gtf outta here faster” really I appreciate his willingness to stand up for me when he knows I’m struggling to do so and why.
Sort of a tangent, but a lot of the cast with jobs work at Galasso’s.
(Joyce is going to need a permanent address, probably Hank’s new address but maybe Jocelyne’s or whatever Becky is writing down. And she’ll need a place to stay over the summer, possibly not the same place. And maybe a job because that could cost money and that could be getting complicated with the divorce. Most of the cast doesn’t even have part time work, but they’re freshmen, so that tracks. Becky and Lucy both have jobs though, both at Galasso’s. Jason works there with questionable paperwork. And Sayid and Ken work there too.)
-> a lot of the cast with jobs work at Galasso’s. ->
(Sayid has two jobs, one on campus. Ken’s roommate is Arnold, I wonder if Arnold has a job. Maybe Joyce will get a job where Arnold works, and when Dorothy is looking for Joyce some time, she’ll run into Arnold and that’s their meet cute)
ugh, just one day and adulthood hits on the face…
He tried
get rekt carol
PAT ROBERTSON IS DEAD, I REPEAT PAT ROBERTSON IS DEAD
*Plays “Palmtree Panic ‘G’ Mix” (JPN ver.) on the Hacked Muzak*
I read Robert Pattinson and almost faited.
As the prophet said: “So long, you duty bongo!”
Dusty. Dust. Y. Dusty. The bongo is covered in dust.
And in a sense of duty. Or doody.
Remember celebrating a human beings death isn’t okay
Fortunately Pat Robertson wasn’t a human being so celebrate away
Bullshit it isn’t okay. There are absolutely people who get to have their death celebrated, because they earned that level of hatred.
YUUUUUUUUP
… Do I want to know who that is?
Founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network. He’s an arrogant asshole who blamed hurricanes and 9/11 on gay people and is responsible for ushering Christian Conservatism into mainstream politics, and now he is no longer with us, thankfully.
Some loser chump who helped ruin his home country for
moneyJesus. This ain’t an original thought, but at least he’s opening up a gender-neutral bathroom.He tried. He really tried.
Joe, no. Divorce is awesome! You’re supposed to say divorce is awesome! You can’t just say whatever, there are consequen- uh oh