OT Reminder of those who got us here.
It is International Labour Day. When the rest of Earth commemorates the US tragedy of the Haymarket Massacre that happened in Chicago.
Well, sets aside a day for workers in the same way that you’re vaguely nicer to your ma one day a year, on a day that was originally chosen to commemorate a strike and/or align with a previous holiday
The Haymarket massacre was on May 4. The date of May 1 was suggested by the American Federation of Labor, at the International Socialist Congress of Paris, 1889, to commemorate the beginning of the strike that ended up with the massacre, but not the massacre in itself.
This is the first I’ve ever heard of said massacre. I’ve always just known Labor Day as “that day you’re not supposed to wear white after, for some reason”.
Now that you mention it, can we normalise not signing up for something every time we wanna do anything? Every fucking website I go to now, it’s “Sign up for this” and “give us your email address so we can send you coupons you won’t use”. I’m sick of signing up for things that don’t remotely require it.
For heaven’s sake Sal, let this relationship breathe. Danny’s a sweet and gentle soul. Like you said, let *him* figure out when. And make sure there’s protection.
Just saying, I had double head trauma when I was hit riding my bicycle and had a bicycle seat shoved from between my legs at about 60 MPH followed by my hip and head hitting the truck. Not fun. Doubleplus unfun.
Nah, this is from her interactions with her roommate and Lucy.
Also, it’s been a week. I didn’t date much before getting married but not boning in the first week isn’t a problem. Hell, Sal didn’t have a problem until 5 minutes ago.
a) love Danny’s face in the second panel
b) just spent the last two weeks binging (bingeing? binge-ing?) the entirety of this webcomic and the drop from reading hundreds of strips a day to one has been jarring to say the least
i mean, live your life how you want, but that kinda sounds risky, unless you’re /just/ a notch under spontaneous to where you’d have condoms on hand, versus sal already being on the pill as well
(It couldn’t be anymore perfect timing I got this one done the other day, also I kind of scrambled on the 3rd song and almost cheated by putting in “Hurt” by Johnny Cash)
Why? Well, for one thing, you insist on calling me Wonderbread, which I find racist and insulting. For another, yelling at me isn’t exactly conducive to romance. Try, you know, nibbling my ear, or something.
I think Danny likes Sal calling him “Wonderbread” and accepts it since she is the only one who calls him that. His response to someone else calling him Wonderbread might not be as positive.
you can’t be racist against white people, especially not in Indiana, USA; and especially not in the context of a mixed race girl calling a white guy white bread. It might be mean or rude, but it’s not fucking racist
I actually agree, but that’s because I hate when people say “X group can’t be racist” because it feels like it lets them off the hook for being bigoted assholes.
The fact of the matter is, anyone of any race can be discriminatory, unfair, and bigoted to people of any race, culture or ethnicity, even if they’re one that is benefiting from the system. And like…I get that it’s different to punch up than punch down but it is…and let me say it loudly.
So when you say “She can’t be racist” do you mean “She’s allowed to treat him like shit because of her race” or do you mean “She’s not benefiting from systemic oppression.” cuz if it’s the former then maybe don’t waste your time defending casual bigotry, even if it’s “punching up.”
I’m not saying that to say “wonderbread” is anything more than being playful. I’m just saying I don’t like people excusing bigotry cuz it’s “in the right direction”
But no one said “x group can’t be racist” that’s BarerMender answering in bad faith. Everyone can be bigoted. Just not against the identity of those in power. Cos then it’s not bigotry anymore.
Yeah it is. Treating anyone like shit for things beyond their control is bigoted. It doesn’t matter if they’re in power or not. If someone wronged you, then yeah treat them like shit. Just existing isn’t an excuse for abuse.
But see, you do have control over what sorts of feelings you invest in your various identities.
I maintain that i will make fun of anyone who is proud of being white. Because that’s a choice, just like being proud of being an aristocrat. And the reason i will make fun of them is very specific and clear: its because white pride (like male pride or straight pride) are inherently dangerous. People shouldn’t be proud of their privileges. We should be very suspicious if anyone who is.
People also don’t have to be ashamed of how they were born if this happens to put them in a position of privilege, mind. Just be graceful. It’s not that hard
I hate when people say “You have control over your feelings”. Maybe you can control how you react to those feelings but being treated badly hurts even if you choose to not take it personally.
Yeah, I’m bunting out of this conversation now. Hopefully calmer spirits will prevail.
Let me say this though, i honestly thought this would be an open and shut case. I’m uncomfortable at how mamy people are moving to defend “reverse racism”.
People won’t only be hurt about generalizations or negative things said about their identity if they are proud of it. I’m not proud of being white, but I still feel hurt and uncomfortable if someone makes a stereotype or negative comment about me related to being white. For a while I bought into the idea that accepting that kind of stuff was just part of the deal if you wanted to change racism in society, but no longer. Basic mutual respect between all people is a must for any attempt to improve society.
Not that people don’t need a space to vent sometimes and make generalizations like, “all white people blah” or “all men blah.” But it should be clear that this is done within the context of venting, with people who’ve agreed to hold space for it.
Doesn’t sound like BarerMender was answering in bad faith to me. I don’t know where you got that notion based on just the words they posted in one response to someone else.
The classic formula is “Racism = Prejudice + Power”. You can be prejudiced toward anyone, sure. You can be a bigot in a thousand hateful little ways. But to be full-on, capital-R Racist, you need to have the societal power for your hatred to actually affect people. Nobody’s ever been dragged behind a truck and hung from a tree for whistling at a Black woman.
I’m just curious how this formula works compared to the meaning of racism I’d personally grew up understanding:
racism = prejudice based on race, such as
sexism = prejudice based on sex (in either direction, such as against male nurses, for instance)
classism = prejudice based on class
bigotry = prejudice based on anything that doesn’t form a convenient -ism.
While capital-R Racism might be based on power, does that completely eliminate the existence of lowercase-r racism, that could exist independent of a power dynamic?
Can a woman be sexist toward another woman? (or, for instance, some far right women who advocate for repealing women’s voting rights, or assume women are incapable of leadership)
Can a man be sexist toward another man? (or is this solely toxic masculinity? Is toxic femininity a thing? Can both men and women express/perpetuate toxic masculinity and toxic femininity, or is it gender specific?)
Can a white person be racist toward another white person? A black person racist toward another black person? What if a white person is racist toward an Asian…while in Japan, where they do not hold any power?
I ask these things because I’m really genuinely curious, possibly slightly autistic, and a math person…so my brain really likes the idea of being able to construct a set of definitions and equations to help equitably figure these things out.
But only a single formula “Racism = Prejudice + Power” to say “No black person could ever be racist against a white person, in any way whatsoever” just feels…incomplete. I need more understanding.
My college didn’t have any gender studies programs to take, and most of what I’ve learned online through self-study has been…varied, and at times contradictory. So I’m always still trying to learn and understand more.
To quote Stokely Carmichael from back in the day: “If a white man wants to lynch me, that’s his problem. If he’s got the power to lynch me, that’s my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it’s a question of power.
“You cannot be a racist without power. You cannot be a sexist without power. Even men who beat their wives get this power from the society which allows it, condones it, encourages it.”
That said, both women and black people can definitely participate in systemic sexism and racism. Women actually play a huge role in enforcing sexism – especially in raising children in ways that reinforce it. Consider Carol – the homophobia is more focused on, but the limits on Joyce are at least as much sexist.
So when you’re looking at lowercase-r racism, it sounds like you’re talking about prejudice. It might make more sense to you to say that Prejudice+Action taken because of said Prejudice=Racism
Hiring practices are a fantastic example of where prejudice and racism differ.
If somebody doesnt like black people, they can choose not to sit next to them at the table or cross the street when they walk. That’s prejudice. If they specifically don’t hire black people, or throw away resumes with black-sounding names, that’s racism.
Sexism is the same thing. If somebody doesn’t like hanging out with other women for whatever reason, that’s prejudice, but if somebody works in HR and intentionally only pushes forward the resumes of men for consideration, that’s Sexist.
Etc, etc. I can give you examples for all of your questions.
For the Black racist example, it works in the same way. If a black boss doesn’t interview “Ian” and does interview “Dwayne” solely based on the name and their perceived perceptions of what those names mean, that is Racist. Its STILL racist if “Dwayne” ended up being white and not being hired for that reason.
It doesn’t have to be big massive POWER, like governmental or something, it can be as small as “I usually use my snowblower to clear the driveways of my neighbors but that black family moved in and I didn’t do their driveway” That’s racist, because prejudice+action based on prejudice = measurable harm or inconvenience to the party prejudiced against.
being shitty and being racist can intersect but they’re not the same thing (same principle as squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares). Calling a white person wonderbread is not racist in this context and I genuinely struggle to think of any context in which it would be genuinely racist.
Nah, Derek is right. If you’re gonna argue, explain first how Black people and even Japanese people are systemically oppressing white people in America.
Derek, any time anyone treats anyone in a particular way *because of* their ethnicity, that is racist. No matter what the ethnicity of either party is. Don’t try to excuse racism from anyone who isn’t white just because white people have an awful track record of racism.
the “it doesn’t count against the privileged” was added in to make people feel better about their own racism. And it’s an entirely American-centric viewpoint, because you never see people parading this version of racism around when it comes to any other place on the planet but the US.
Yeah if I went to china or Japan it wouldn’t suddenly be ok to throw out slurs or display racial bias towards asians just because they’re the majority there. I wish acknowledging your own bias wasn’t treated the same as “denying systemic racisms generational effect on how people survive in this country” as if both cant be true.
My concern is why people are saying black people cannot be racist. And when its as a way to defend someone from their own willfully shitty behavior I find it doing more harm than good.
Excellent point about not going to another country and being rude to people just because they are the dominating demographic.
I really appreciate everything you said in those conversation, Yotomoe. This is the kind of interpersonal solidarity I believe we need to also have political solidarity. I also just think your viewpoint is very down to earth in terms of how regular everyday people want and need to interact with other to form healthy human bonds.
But that was generally because in the past deeply racist times, someone from an oppressed group being openly racist towards the privileged group would find themselves lynched.
Back in slavery days or even Jim Crow, of course black people were prejudiced against whites. What’s the alternative?
It’s only in recent times when it’s starting to be safe to express such ideas, that it even comes up for debate. No one 50 years ago would even have considered the idea of racism being personal, not systemic.
I would argue this is a global thing. China has a high demand for white workers. South Korea uses white people as a standard of beauty. South Africa has a white minority with a lot of power.
Not really. There are very obvious racial observations that are racist and others that aren’t.
This isn’t even something excuse to white people.
For example if someone was to call a black kid a monkey that would be racist but if they called a black kid a chipmunk, not including any context I might not be aware of, that wouldn’t be racist.
There endless examples you can make.
Black people love grape soda vs asian people love grape soda.
Jewish people are wealthy vs native Americans are wealthy.
Asian people talk funny vs white people talk funny.
Context matters, here too though. Like a while ago there was this whole conversation in the comments about whether Joyce was being racist for saying she was a monkey…or a dumb monkey or something. It had nothing to do with race at all, it was about her accepting evolution instead of creationism.
Someone could be talking about being a monkey in that context and even apply it to a black person, because they are applying it to *any* human, and it wouldn’t be racist. It’s just a colloquial turn of phrase about our evolution, where monkey is being used as a synonym with primate.
Some people try to argue for using a word at all even if it *reminds* them of it being used in a negative context – but then we just need new words to describe those things, and they will also take on negative connotations. I remember a while back it being a trend to call Donald Trump “45” as in the 45th POTUS. After being around people doing this for a little while, I noticed that when I saw the number 45 in a totally neutral context, I had a negative emotional reaction. I stopped participating in that trend abruptly at that point and argued against it to other people. No thanks to spreading the negative feelings about Trump to other words and concepts – let’s keep that shit contained. Just like let’s keep negative racist connotations of words contained to when they actually apply in context, rather than spreading them out to other usages by association.
No sir or ma’am or gentleperson; recent and current political events, including protests precipitated by continued police brutality that’s pointedly anti-black have made it necessary to have a more specific formal definition of racism and Jon posted it up in the thread: “Racism = Prejudice + Power”.
One can’t be racist against white people in the USA as things currently stand. One could be mean, shitty, prejudiced, irrationally violent towards them; and those are all bad things. It’s not racism. It won’t be racism until there’s a system in place that makes it a lot harder for white people to get jobs, get housing, get married and a lot more common for them to get harassed and sometimes murdered for merely existing as visibly white in public spaces.
You cannot impose a new definition for a word on other people, that’s just not how language works. (You also shouldn’t be trying to impose the use of a formal definition into colloquial conversation in general- this is an internet forum and not an academic discourse, formal sociological definitions are jargon which are being misapplied here)
This particular definition of racism isn’t wrong, it’s just one of a number of different ways that people use the word. Nearly every word has multiple definitions which we understand from context, artificially trying to limit this word to only one definition is a fool’s errand that will never work, because it opposes the natural process of language, and mistakes a descriptive definition for a proscriptive one.
This isn’t a new definition. It’s the old definition. No one back in the Jim Crow days would have talked about black people being racist to white folks. It doesn’t even make sense.
A+. I wanted to say something similar but was reading this from my phone the other day. Trying to impose definitions and not understanding what someone means in context isn’t helpful to understanding each other. If it is clear from a conversation that by racism someone means “personal prejudice” and not “systemic racism,” just…move on, and continue communicating. It’s not that hard to understand, and trying to impose these definitions on people doesn’t seem to have actually reduced racism in society.
You absolutely can be racist against any ethnicity, even if it’s the majority like whites in most of the US. Treating someone badly because of their ethnicity is racist. That’s pretty much the definition of racism.
When I was younger, “isms” (Like Racism) meant institutions or systems of thought. But in the OED, 2004, “ism” added definitions about denigrating others or belief in the superiority of and specifically calling out sexism, racism, etc as examples. So words change what they mean over time in English, and this is an example right in front of us that for nearly 2 decades, ism does not mean institutions anymore. But change is hard, and there is no Word Police making sure you follow Dictionary Rules.
Which is amusing because the usual argument from the “reverse racism” types is the definition was always personal and only modern woke types tried to tie it to institutional power to protect black people from being called racist.
I don’t think anybody in the comments here was saying that systemic racism doesn’t exist, we know that. But it’s also true that individual people can be racist against any ethnicity, including the majority ethnicity.
It’s kind of that we use the same word to apply to two somewhat different concepts. And then racist trolls use that confusion to make it seem like “reverse racism” is the real problem.
That’s why I never use terms like Reverse Racism. Being a dick is being a dick no matter who it’s against. Being a dick to someone you think “deserves it” or “won’t be hurt as much” by it doesn’t make you less of a dick. I don’t want to not call the people doing it out on it just because some people will use that in bad faith. Systemic Racism and person-to-person racism are as different as a Forest Fire or a fire on your stove. Both could kill you but it’s situational which one is more of a threat at the given moment and I think that nuance is important.
My issue is mostly that whenever someone says something rude and someone calls them out on it we always get a lotta pushback to say “Nu-uh. That mean thing they just said or did wasn’t racism” without saying “But it was bigoted, fuck you” or “But we won’t tolerate it, leave.” It’s not ok to just excuse it just because it’s not “racism”. I feel like not calling it racism strikes people as “It’s not a big deal” or “people upset about it are bad people”. And that rubs me the wrong way.
The general claim for reverse racism though is that it is systemic. That white people are the ones the system is prejudiced against.
The whole “Why isn’t there a White People’s Month?” argument.
Well, I agree with what Derek said. I do think anyone can be racist, but I don’t think you can be racist against white people. You can be bigoted and prejudice against white people, and if you see someone being shitty to white people because of their race, you can tell them they’re being shitty. I don’t agree with calling it racism, though; if we acknowledge the experience of a group in power being mistreated is not equivalent to the mistreatment of those who don’t benefit from that power, why do we have to use an equivalent term for that mistreatment?
So yeah, I do view racism as tied to systems/institutions. People can argue changing definitions (though that “ism” part seems a little weak), but then I have to wonder, who is leading the charge in those changing definitions? Who benefits from them changing? My experience has been with white people who want to position themselves as also being victims of racism; I’ve often seen it come up when POC are sharing their own experiences. It might be an attempt to express empathy or an attempt to escape the discomfort that one might benefit from racial privilege– but it generally misses the mark on being empathetic, and it’s okay for things to be uncomfortable.
^ this. Racism is systemic bigotry. White people don’t experience racism because they are not the victims of systemic bigotry. I’ve absolutely had people be shitty to me by judging me for being white, and as a white person, that can hurt! But that’s not racism IMO because it’s not contributing to the massive societal systems that promote white power. And in my experience, responding to their judgment with “hey don’t be racist” will usually end up with a whole bunch of other white people becoming very racist at the POC involved.
Is it racist to call a white person Wonderbread? Last time I asked something like that, the consensus seemed to be “No, white people can’t be the victim of racism when they’re the controlling majority.”
Alright, we’ve got some Wonderbread, some balogna, we’re on our way to making a better-than-starving-to-death foldover.
The idea that someone who’s not marginalised could be the victim of actual-factual racism, it’s kind of a stupid one. It just doesn’t make sense that the ones with the majority of power could be legitimately wronged or harmed by some seriously low-grade name calling. Granted, it’s better than calling him vanilla, because at least vanilla tastes like something.
No, because wonderbread isn’t racial. It’s akin to calling someone boring or vanilla. The item happens to be white bread, that does not mean it exclusively refers to white people.
Anybody of any race can be wonderbread if they have the excitement and daringness of wet cardboard!
(Not hating on Danny here, I actually like him outside of a couple instances that make me go “Hmm.” I’ve just never heard wonderbread used to refer to a white person specifically for being white.)
Yeah, I’ve never read wonderbread as racially based. I just read it in the same way as the term milquetoast. Danny doesn’t have much that makes anyone upset, doesn’t really get in anyone’s way, doesn’t have as “flavor,” to put it in food terms. Much like Wonder Bread. There’s nothing racial about it. It just means someone who isn’t aggressive and is kind of a pushover, which Danny really tends to be.
Can you feel like people are being racist against you if you’re white?
For sure!!!
…If you’re proud of being white.
Which you deserve to be relentlessly mocked and/or insulted for.
I hate this mentality, honestly. I was born black. I have no reason to be proud of it. I did nothing to earn it. I live in the suburbs, I watch anime. I don’t get pulled over or treated like garbage.
But if someone called me a slur I’m gonna be offended. Because I’m being treated badly for something beyond my control.
but are there even slurs about white people?
No. Because it’s just not comparable. There aren’t slurs about men, or straight people, or Americans. Its a power thing. Its political, not personal.
There’s only insults for when they’re acting like privileged shitheads, like “fascist”.
Cracker, Honkey, White boy, Yt, Whitey and that’s just off the top of my head.
It’s not about Comparison. Let’s not compare trauma.
Let me put it like this. You don’t know what people are dealing with. You have no idea how much people hate themselves. You don’t know who’s tetering on the edge. And don’t make excuse for treating people like shit for things beyond their control, even if they’re in a position of power.
Please understand, It’s not saying there’s not a disperity. I’m saying that’s not an EXCUSE. And too many people use it as one. If you sit around talking about how much you hate white people, think they’re lesser, or treat them like shit, You’re racist. I don’t care.
My mom told me if I married a white woman she wouldn’t accept her.
My mom told me she believes white people are inherently evil.
And I’m supposed to just sit around and say “That’s A-OK!”. She has her reasons but NO. That’s fucked up. It’s fucked up to treat people like that. My white roommate is my best friend and if anyone spoke to him like that I would beat the shit out of them. Because that man…I love him. It really pisses me off.
Aw man. Sorry to hear that about your mom.
I don’t want to argue with you over this. We’d better agree to disagree, because my sentiment is coming from a different place but i don’t think it’s something i can be reasoned out of at this point. I’m spooked about the increasing acceptableness of fascist talking points, and this is a potent dogwhistle. Not always consciously of course, bit thats exactly the problem right there, that normal people find it cool and legitimate to talk about reverse racism and i’m reacting to that.
There are deeper conversations to be had but this is where my immediate concern is. Sorry for being simplistic and flippant with you
It’s fine. I’m just coming from the POV of someone who grew up around African Americans and some of the most shitty stuff will come out of their mouth. And I’m sick of hearing them justify it by saying “oh black people can’t be racist”. And that bigotry goes on to homophobia, transphobia, racism against POC other than black people.
I get that it can seem like a dogwhistle but I’ve just been too privy to so much Hypocrisy and people getting away with it because they don’t wanna seem like an asshole. I don’t use terms like “reverse racism”(cuz I think the reverse of racism would be acceptance and love :P) but I will call a spade a spade if I see it.
You act crappy to someone based on their race, I’m calling you a racist. I don’t care what you look like or who you’re doing it to.
Sorry for being so immovable on this. I don’t wanna argue anymore either but I wanna stress, it’s not a dogwhistle. I hope I didn’t come off like an asshole.
No definitely not. you’re arguing on behalf of generosity and against prejudice. And your perspective makes perfect sense. I hate to argue with you even though we wouldnt agree here no matter how deep we scratch at this.
The problem with calling something a dogwhistle is that then everyone starts assuming that when someone is saying something using a certain phrase in good faith, the assumption is that it is not – even though the majority of people may be using the phrasing in good faith. And this can lead to feeling like the world is a much more dangerous place than it is, and dismissing what people are saying when they are communicating in good faith. It’s a form of hypervigilance. Not saying there aren’t good reasons to be hypervigilant, but we all also bear some responsibility to try to temper our hypervigilance and be discerning about when it is called for, so we don’t just keep escalating situations.
“are there even slurs about white people?” Sure. Ask the Irish. The Italians. The Poles. The Lithuanians. White people who entered the pecking order at the bottom. ( now guess which one i am )
And no, I don’t want a fight. Your lack of coffee betrayed you. Your caffeinated self knows better.
Not the point though. There are slurs for specific sub-groups of white people, but that’s not the same. Saying some groups of white people were treated as out-groups doesn’t mean that white people in general get slurs.
It means those groups didn’t get treated as fully white and thus didn’t get the full privilege that comes with it.
Hey wait, you can’t call Nazis racist! You’ll offend the braindead subtterranean elk-people who identify with them politically and ideologically but don’t have the courage to admit it in polite company because they know it’s wrong to live that way!
a week seems pretty fast for ‘dating’, even among college students, if they are dating ‘properly’ as opposed to just meeting at a frat party/hooking up but it’d be an amusing future couple thing if they did get married and putting a flower in the vase or so would be a signal for later in the evening when they come home from jobs or so
I think he’s just off his game a bit due to the absurdity situation. Or hopefully he’s lightly poking fun. I can see him having a talk with her over this regarding feelings and other mushy non-spontaneous stuff.
Yeah, the conversation is pretty funny, but Sal is clearly acting out of identity crisis as opposed to horniness. In reality Dan is probably sharp enough to pick up on that
I mean given the situation its not that weird a way to respond.
If she were initiating sex or opening the door for sex it in a different less urgent way she’d no doubt get different more romantic results.
Actually, now that I think about it, showing up in your window and angrily demanding sex is pretty romantic, it’s like a more assertive version of Romeo
“Rail on each other til neither of you can walk straight and the crisp early spring air stings against your chapped and chuffed thighs through your too tight jeans.”
I haven’t been paying attention to if this is a pattern with Sal or not but fucked is profanity. Goddamned is blasphemy. Regardless of her own religious views my recollection is the private school she went to was a religious one. She might have picked up the habit of censoring blasphemy to have an easier time with the authority figures there and not gotten rid of it.
My relatively limited experience with religious authority figures is that while they might argue such a theoretical distinction, they’ll punish you for either profanity or blasphemy.
Danny is a lucky man, I’ve never had a girlfriend want to get into my pants within the first week of dating. Although all my exes were long distance relationships, so that does limit things.
Unfortunately I currently live in the middle of nowhere and I’m not allowed to drive anymore. So my chances of getting a girlfriend are basically nonexistent, let alone my chances of getting laid.
I’m amused by the thought of what this looks like for people on the ground outside. Just Sal clinging to a window yelling “WHY AIN’T WE FUCKED YET?!” at someone unseen inside the building.
I mean, I did have a friend in college who, while we were walking across campus, middle of the day, out of nowhere, angrily shout “Why the hell don’t you believe in quickies?” at me. to the amusment (if not delight) of students and professors alike.
Honestly to this day I don’t understand why the British guy whose name I momentarily forget had to quit his job and endanger his student visa over having sex with Sal.
This current comic just adds to the pile of evidence that Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto.
The reason why it’s wrong for a TA to have a relationship with a student is because of the power imbalance, and we the omnipercipient readers know for a fact that Jason (is that his name?) never abused his position to exhort sexual favours. In fact he went out of his way to not show favouritism, which did the opposite of endearing him to Sal.
It was still incredibly stupid and wrong to have sex with a student, but losing his job and jeopardizing his visa is an entirely nonsensical and self inflicted punishment.
He didn’t have to quit because there was no proof that he had sex with a student (which is grounds for firing).
He chose not to contest the accusation because he knew he had, in fact, had sex with a student. The fact nobody knew for sure or would probably be able to prove it didn’t make him feel better.
Sal literally had sex with him for grades and he allowed that. The fact that it didn’t WORK does not change the fact that that is abuse of position for sex. It is his responsibility to say no.
If I remember correctly, he didn’t actually give her good grades for the act though. He only gave her good grades, after she started earning good grades. To her, it might have been “Sleep with teacher for grades”, to him it was just regular sexy times, that happened to be with a student. I applaud him for his willingness to throw away his career for feeling bad over it though. He didn’t break his principles. He just…cracked them a little. But then still felt bad enough over just that, to quit. Principled to a fault.
Again: The fact that it didn’t work doesn’t change what it was. She STATED TO HIM EXPLICITLY that it was for grades. He weaseled about it later that he ‘only’ said yes to the sex and not to the grades, which is utter bullshit. Whatever his intention to follow through or not, the expectation was clearly there, which is the abuse.
Wait, when did she say that? I thought she just jumped on top of him and assumed the grades were a given, much to her later surprise and fury. They are both definitely guilty of doing something wrong (and fireable/expellable), but I don’t think she spelled out a quid quo pro in advance.
She said some stuff to the effect of “Hey, only my marks count, riiiiiiight?”, he said it was unethical, she said “Yeah. :)” and that’s about where the conversation ended. She was pretty heavily hinting, and my assumption is that he’s either dense as a moon, or he conveniently ignored that part because a topless Sal was currently sitting in his lap and he only has so much willpower/integrity. Not enough integrity to avoid fucking a student, but just enough not to lie and say he didn’t.
Also, an idle thought that’s sort of related. If he hadn’t had consensual sex with Sal in that moment, I wonder how many people would be speculating on whether he’s a closeted gay man, calling him a moron for saying no to all of Sal’s sexy (her words, I think), and otherwise coming up with reasons he’d still be in the wrong. Cuz it’s not like he’d be clearing a particular high bar, so I don’t think we’d get more charitable reads than “At least he turned her down”.
At that point in the story, Jason was generally pretty cold-hearted, even when he was attempting to help someone. It follows his pattern of behavior at the time that he understood she wanted a grades boost but didn’t feel like she was entitled to an automatic explanation, she would just find out when she got her bad grades. A slightly more ethical, but obviously mood-killing thing to do would be to actually say “this doesn’t mean I’m rigging your grades” before doin it.
as for the second part:
Eh, it was pretty strongly telegraphed that he was attracted to her before the affair (and also they were together in the Walkyverse, so there’s that.)
Well yes, that looks bad on paper. But you see, he pulled out, which makes it ethical again. Don’t hire me as a lawyer if you fuck a student, I’ll definitely get you a harsher penalty.
Jason isn’t a bad guy, he just did something very unethical. If he’s allowed to get away with it, that makes things much easier for corrupt/predatory people that actually do want to take advantage.
but he DID technically “get away with it”, him leaving was entirely voluntary. The administration still knows NOTHING about the situation. Nothing here suggests that his leaving his position will help anyone in a similar situation in the future
It won’t help others, but the admin did know about it. They were told by Penny and told him he should bring the student in question in if he wanted to defend himself.
I don’t think that’s quite what Dday meant though, but that rules that would have let him get away with it, would be very open to abuse by the corrupt/predatory ones.
If you think about it, the reason he went down without a fight is probably cause he didn’t want Sal to get exposed. He still deserved to get fired, but it counts for something.
Also, I don’t know if Jason could have successfully mounted a she’s-a-slut defense to retain his position, but I do know he would be a far less sympathetic character to me if he tried.
Yes, it is a self-inflicted punishment… because Jason knows it was wrong of him to have said yes to it at all ever. And knows it was even scummier of him to sleep with Sal and not follow through with what seemed to be the agreed terms just so he could pretend to be moral and righteous after the fact.
Did he HAVE to accept the accusation against him? No, he easily could have gotten away with it consequence free, Sal isn’t a narc and Penny had no proof, but the accusation was TRUE and he felt guilty and like he deserved to be punished.
It isn’t a decision based on practicality, but on emotion and his sense of principles and morals. He didn’t feel he deserved to still be in his position or to get away with his wrongdoing just because the person who accused him couldn’t prove it.
Just because Sal will willingly have sex with people that are basically strangers doesn’t mean it was acceptable for him to say yes to her in the position he was in. The accusation had nothing to do with whether Sal consented or not, and was entirely about whether Jason was sleeping with students or not, and he knew he did, and didn’t want to carry that around as a secret forever by getting away with it.
You make these kinds of things hard and fast rules so that abusers can’t weasel their way around them with arguments like “she’s a slut anyway” or “But I didn’t actually change her grades”.
For crying out loud. You didn’t say it, nobody said you said it, thejeff was using the phrase “she’s a slut anyway” as an example out what a weasely abuser would say to justify unethical fucking. Hypothetical abuser only, specifically Jason in the context of that scene. Not you. Unless you fit that description, in which case you. But probably (hopefully) not you.
Some one else used the “she’s-a-slut” defense line up a bit, so it was on my mind.
And frankly, though you didn’t use the word, that’s exactly what using “Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto” as a defense to his firing would be.
@Derek: From your post: “This current comic just adds to the pile of evidence that Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto.”
If you want to explain why that is relevant to Jason’s defense that does not boil down to calling her a slut, I am willing to listen, but I am not expecting to be impressed.
Huh, this conversation was ridiculous enough that I actually like this ship now. The indifference barrier has been breached! We’re taking on water! And that water has boats in it!
To be honest, I’m not sure Danny will figure it out when it’s happening. After, probably.
Low-key hoping he invites her in and very sweetly asks if she’d be alright with some makeouts, and Sal protests that that’s not sexy at all and immediate smashcut to the pair of them in a state of messy undress.
so if they were invisible, would Jennifer just look like she didn’t have any boobs? like she’d just be flat? Or would she just have two large oblong oval windows showing the fat and musculature of her chest?
nice lol and good detail on giving her brown nipples, sometimes ppl still draw pink nipples for asians (though i wonder if the coloring [has jen had an official slipshine yet?] would be slightly diff since she’s mixed even tho she looks more asian physically/genetically and not many half white/english traits lol)
Sex is different for different people.
Sex is different for one person with different people.
Sex is different for one person with the same person under different circumstances.
Sex is different for one person with the same person under the same circumstances.
Welcome, Sal, to the next step in your journey of discovery.
Nothing is certain.
I’ll be honest, I kinda wish we got to see more of Leslie’s class. Early in the comic Willis would often have a lot of character interactions based on Leslie’s lessons and I really enjoyed that. It’d especially be interesting with our current group of characters in her class. A few of them don’t get a lotta focus atm.
of all the characters having to confront the falseness of the facade they’ve presented to the world, I did not have Sal on the list and I am so happy to see it
“Well Sal… typically sex comes to be more complicated with feelings attached. I know I’ve been respecting your agency in this regard, and really not trying to push it. I like knowing my partners pretty well before we christian this vessel of young love and shove off into choppy waters of… turbulent motion.”
XD being about middle of the slider on asexuality, specifically demi-pansexual panromantic, I know I cant fathom how people would go off to smash over the course of a few hours or days.
Well, I don’t think that would be a first for Dan. Back when he and Amazi-Girl were an item, Danny told Joe that he was willing and able to perform oral sex while swinging on a grappling hook. Sal is probably going to be in for several very pleasant surprises in the near future.
florists can be expensive, if its the thought that counts/you know yhour partners preference, maybe you can pick some local wildflowers as long as it’s allowed/no allergies, or simply ‘make’ some paper flowers/something similar
Plus, gotta make sure your partner is actually IN to flowers first. 😉 I once dated a girl who absolutely HATED getting flowers because she couldn’t stand the thought of being handed a living thing that basically got chopped up and sentenced to die just because somebody thought they looked pretty.
Hmmm… Sal went to a Catholic boarding school, right? Where officially you aren’t supposed to have sex outside of marriage, but in practice this often ends up being “It is sinful to plan to have sex, but if it is spontaneous that’s OK, or at least forgivable.”
I wonder if this “only have sex when I decide to on the spur of the moment” thing is a weird mutant version of that.
I just hope that one or both of them carry condoms routinely.
(Or IU just has bowls of them everywhere like the Smif library in QC.)
As someone who was raised Catholic, you’re spot on. A spontaneous fall from Grace is a venial sin and forgivable. But if you planned it and prepared protection, well it was premeditated. Bigger sin. Much much bigger. So Big!
and, ppl have said that some college campuses give free condoms so i’d hope it’d be available because you don’t hear as much about ‘pregnant dropouts’ for college specifically versus public school
Man Sal would be creepy if she presented as a dude. But now I have to worry about pushy dudes through the lens of their insecurity. At least, the harmless dudes.
When men are insecure it can only be because they lack moral fiber and demand total domination over all things. This in no way harms them or other men, and definitely isn’t a problem that needs to be addressed, just please villainize all men regardless of whether they’re actively causing harm. Cuz y’know, it’s only a matter of time before a man does something, so it’s better to assume he’s already done/doing it and shun him before he gets the chance. Suspect everyone, even yourself (if you’re a guy), of everything.
(Purely tongue in cheek here, of course. Not serious, jesting, poking fun, and so on.)
I’m not especially into Split Check, does that count? It’s mostly been internal fast food politics, which I’m sure is somebody’s thing, but it don’t do much for me.
well it is an ‘exclusively sexual comics’ type site but it would be amusing if they had some kinda ‘mascot’ and drew her just doing slice of life normal stuff that’s not necessarily sexual or so as some kinda ad lol
though, i do remember some artist doing ‘redraws’/clowning on one wlw webcomic where the main charas had exaggerated faces/expressions/anatomy, even for pornl ol
Lucy’s brother, Lyle, is in the rotation now. I don’t remember the Gravatars shuffling after he made his first appearance, but maybe he was added at the time.
Something else about this scene, that I only now thought of, is that Sal’s currently shouting about fucking Danny on the edge of a window. I wonder who can see her up there.
She’s currently shouting about not fucking Danny. And I’m currently shouting about how the server needs a kick because it’s 12:07 and the update isn’t here yet. Hopefully when I refresh again after this.
Loading ...
“If you have to ask, you’ll never know”
…is that it
OT Reminder of those who got us here.
It is International Labour Day. When the rest of Earth commemorates the US tragedy of the Haymarket Massacre that happened in Chicago.
We should do this every day.
Well, sets aside a day for workers in the same way that you’re vaguely nicer to your ma one day a year, on a day that was originally chosen to commemorate a strike and/or align with a previous holiday
Wait, nobody’s done “Sal is saying Danny will only know they’re having sex once it’s happening, that is not enthusastic consent” yet?
That was not meant to be a reply. I reloaded the page twice so it wouldn’t be a reply.
Labor day in Norway is a full on holiday, day off from work, red day in the calendar and everything.
I’m taking my shop steward training tomorrow. ❤
Congratulations!
Thanks for the reminder of International Labour Day!
It’s also the beginning of Mental Health Awareness Month!
The Haymarket massacre was on May 4. The date of May 1 was suggested by the American Federation of Labor, at the International Socialist Congress of Paris, 1889, to commemorate the beginning of the strike that ended up with the massacre, but not the massacre in itself.
This is the first I’ve ever heard of said massacre. I’ve always just known Labor Day as “that day you’re not supposed to wear white after, for some reason”.
bc arbitrary rules to weed out the nouveau riche from the “in groups”
It’s metric Labor Day. Just like metric Pi Day is 22nd of July.
What is 7.22? If anything, metric Pi would be Tau (6.28)!
It’s nice of Sal to give fair warning.
I continue to love Sal because Sal continues to be delightful
Sal is on edge.
Sal is on a ledge
Sal is on the cusp of making a sexual pledge.
Sal won’t make a schedj…ule. A schedule.
Is Sal in danger of falling on a hedge?
So we alledge.
You’ve heard of Sal on a Ledge…
Sal’s voyage of self-discovery is truly a thing to behold.
Oh no, the gravatars have changed.
I was about to say. I want my cute Joyce gravatar back! Or whoever I was last time I posted here.
Right? Give me back Ruth.
Once again the only winning move is to have set a custom gravatar like 10 years back and not know how to change it.
Literally same hat
For what it’s worth, you go to Gravatar.com and sign in to set a new custom gravatar.
Yeah, but then you have to sign up for something.
The bane of the internet.
Now that you mention it, can we normalise not signing up for something every time we wanna do anything? Every fucking website I go to now, it’s “Sign up for this” and “give us your email address so we can send you coupons you won’t use”. I’m sick of signing up for things that don’t remotely require it.
that’s why you use a burner e-mail that you have and can access but otherwise never use
I wasn’t too hot on the one I had, excited to see the new one
There’s a full write-up on Grav Roulette on Walkypedia.
Truly a public service.
So i guess the real question is? What did willis add?
Charlie
I was able to get my Sal gravatar back pretty quickly; just have faith in Willis and I’m sure you’ll find your appropriate gravatar.
Sure. Rub it in.
It had been a while, hadn’t it
Oh man am I no longer Sal?
Oh I’m a cool Joyce.
Just keep re-rolling Gravatar Roulette. You’ll find your favorite again eventually!
Sounds like she also wants to discover Danny’s Self.
“Ah’ve pounced folks at the drop of a hat” found the problem, just throw the hat out the window and go to town.
Danny probably glued that thing to his head by this point.
We can’t have it blowing away in the wind.
Not again.
Aww she likes him.
Dumbing of Age Book 13: WHY AIN’T WE FUCKED YET?!
And we have a winner.
Wait! Who is this? I don’t recognize this avatar.
Is it Flat Top from Dick Tracy?
Hm. Lucy’s brother maybe? I’ll have to go back and check.
According to the image url, it’s Lyle.
Yes, that is Lucy’s brother, Lyle.
Dumbing of Age Pornographique Book One
bless you danny
That’s a sledgehammer of a scene change
Got your attention, didn’t it?
That’s not a bad face for Wonderbread there in panel 2, gotta admit
That is such a wonderful first panel.
Also, I loved the alt-text, that got a big laugh out of me.
I too had an Extremely Positive reaction.
For heaven’s sake Sal, let this relationship breathe. Danny’s a sweet and gentle soul. Like you said, let *him* figure out when. And make sure there’s protection.
Neat! I got Booster instead of Robin this time! 🙂
Considering Sal’s tone in this particular strip, would “protection” mean a couple of body guards?
Motor cycle helmets and riding leathers.
you joke but that boy’s liable to get double head trauma out of this experience.
Worth it, though.
Just saying, I had double head trauma when I was hit riding my bicycle and had a bicycle seat shoved from between my legs at about 60 MPH followed by my hip and head hitting the truck. Not fun. Doubleplus unfun.
Possibly an airbag directly under the window.
Sorry for the oopsie-flag.
Danny doesn’t much seem to care. “You want to? Works for me. No? Cool, whenever things change, lmk.”
No, let them fuck now
I wanna see
They’re making progress! No rocks yet!
The worst fear of Sal is to be self-conscious.
I don’t know Sal? Why Ain’t ya fucked yet!? If it’s spontaneous, it seems like you’ve got a bit more control over that.
https://youtu.be/vXf7zzbApMg (30 rock scene)
Scheduling can be pretty fun ;P Sal was aware she chose a King/Empower Dorkus
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/adork/
Sounds like she’s been marinating on the high from flowers and Dannyness to think about sex.
The pollen in the flowers triggered her flight or fuck response.
Nah, this is from her interactions with her roommate and Lucy.
Also, it’s been a week. I didn’t date much before getting married but not boning in the first week isn’t a problem. Hell, Sal didn’t have a problem until 5 minutes ago.
Sal:
Because Billie already tried that approach and it didn’t work?
Oh hey, it’s May now
…I should have known that. Huh.
It’s not just May; it is Labour Day (the real one).
Almost Starwar’s Day.
And the day after that is First Contact Day!
May Day! Which is not a holiday where I am 🙁
Todaybourday is Labour Day!
for those who are outside USAFirst of May, First of May,
Outdoor fucking starts today,
So bring your favorite lady,
Or at least your favorite lay!
Happy Beltain, now go celebrate the Great Rite. 😆
So, Sal, why haven’t you?
Why is this so adorable?
I’m scareroused…o_o
You should be.
a) love Danny’s face in the second panel
b) just spent the last two weeks binging (bingeing? binge-ing?) the entirety of this webcomic and the drop from reading hundreds of strips a day to one has been jarring to say the least
“I’m spontaneous and out of control”
Yeah, if you turn it into a brand it becomes neither. 😀
i mean, live your life how you want, but that kinda sounds risky, unless you’re /just/ a notch under spontaneous to where you’d have condoms on hand, versus sal already being on the pill as well
Danny starts wearing a condom bandolier like Rambo. Roz co-ops the look for a safe-sex vigilante.
😆
Chaos Control. Oh wait.
So glad this preview panel isn’t Sal confronting Danny over something terrible he’s done.
I’ll be honest, of the many cutaways I was expecting, this was not one of them.
i did expect sal to attempt to have sex with danny before she talked to lucy again.
now we’ll just have to see who goes first, danny and sal or walky/lucy lol
What if both couples start having sex at the same time, and then, during the inevitable Slipshine, that’s when the twin telepathy actually kicks in?
Ooh! Good idea! Bring it on, Mr. Willis.
and then the ending of them going into the hallway and exchanging looks with each other lol
Today is a day for a reddit post one that I think I’m proud of. A Sal song edition 🎶: https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbingofage/comments/134c7c0/guessing_what_i_think_is_on_some_of_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
(It couldn’t be anymore perfect timing I got this one done the other day, also I kind of scrambled on the 3rd song and almost cheated by putting in “Hurt” by Johnny Cash)
Why? Well, for one thing, you insist on calling me Wonderbread, which I find racist and insulting. For another, yelling at me isn’t exactly conducive to romance. Try, you know, nibbling my ear, or something.
I think Danny likes Sal calling him “Wonderbread” and accepts it since she is the only one who calls him that. His response to someone else calling him Wonderbread might not be as positive.
you can’t be racist against white people, especially not in Indiana, USA; and especially not in the context of a mixed race girl calling a white guy white bread. It might be mean or rude, but it’s not fucking racist
You can be racist against any race at all, anywhere at all. I’ve been around racist black people, and at least one racist Japanese.
omg you’re defending yourself? Shut up please
I actually agree, but that’s because I hate when people say “X group can’t be racist” because it feels like it lets them off the hook for being bigoted assholes.
The fact of the matter is, anyone of any race can be discriminatory, unfair, and bigoted to people of any race, culture or ethnicity, even if they’re one that is benefiting from the system. And like…I get that it’s different to punch up than punch down but it is…and let me say it loudly.
ALWAYS. SHITTY. TO. MAKE. SOMEONE. SHITTY. ABOUT. HOW. THEY. WERE. BORN.
So when you say “She can’t be racist” do you mean “She’s allowed to treat him like shit because of her race” or do you mean “She’s not benefiting from systemic oppression.” cuz if it’s the former then maybe don’t waste your time defending casual bigotry, even if it’s “punching up.”
I’m not saying that to say “wonderbread” is anything more than being playful. I’m just saying I don’t like people excusing bigotry cuz it’s “in the right direction”
Y’know, this seems way more nuanced and interesting than my response. I like yours better.
But no one said “x group can’t be racist” that’s BarerMender answering in bad faith. Everyone can be bigoted. Just not against the identity of those in power. Cos then it’s not bigotry anymore.
Yeah it is. Treating anyone like shit for things beyond their control is bigoted. It doesn’t matter if they’re in power or not. If someone wronged you, then yeah treat them like shit. Just existing isn’t an excuse for abuse.
But see, you do have control over what sorts of feelings you invest in your various identities.
I maintain that i will make fun of anyone who is proud of being white. Because that’s a choice, just like being proud of being an aristocrat. And the reason i will make fun of them is very specific and clear: its because white pride (like male pride or straight pride) are inherently dangerous. People shouldn’t be proud of their privileges. We should be very suspicious if anyone who is.
People also don’t have to be ashamed of how they were born if this happens to put them in a position of privilege, mind. Just be graceful. It’s not that hard
I hate when people say “You have control over your feelings”. Maybe you can control how you react to those feelings but being treated badly hurts even if you choose to not take it personally.
We call those Microagressions.
Yeah, I’m bunting out of this conversation now. Hopefully calmer spirits will prevail.
Let me say this though, i honestly thought this would be an open and shut case. I’m uncomfortable at how mamy people are moving to defend “reverse racism”.
I don’t think anyone but you has used the term “reverse racism”. Except for me that one time in reference to you sing it.
I think there’s more nuance to the topic than you may have felt at first.
Personally I’m proud of having been born Lord High Pubah, Rightful Ruler of the Asmovian Spaces and All Lesser Orbs Therein.
People won’t only be hurt about generalizations or negative things said about their identity if they are proud of it. I’m not proud of being white, but I still feel hurt and uncomfortable if someone makes a stereotype or negative comment about me related to being white. For a while I bought into the idea that accepting that kind of stuff was just part of the deal if you wanted to change racism in society, but no longer. Basic mutual respect between all people is a must for any attempt to improve society.
Not that people don’t need a space to vent sometimes and make generalizations like, “all white people blah” or “all men blah.” But it should be clear that this is done within the context of venting, with people who’ve agreed to hold space for it.
Doesn’t sound like BarerMender was answering in bad faith to me. I don’t know where you got that notion based on just the words they posted in one response to someone else.
Yeah! Judging people based on inherent traits that are beyond their control is a shitty thing to do.
The classic formula is “Racism = Prejudice + Power”. You can be prejudiced toward anyone, sure. You can be a bigot in a thousand hateful little ways. But to be full-on, capital-R Racist, you need to have the societal power for your hatred to actually affect people. Nobody’s ever been dragged behind a truck and hung from a tree for whistling at a Black woman.
I’m just curious how this formula works compared to the meaning of racism I’d personally grew up understanding:
racism = prejudice based on race, such as
sexism = prejudice based on sex (in either direction, such as against male nurses, for instance)
classism = prejudice based on class
bigotry = prejudice based on anything that doesn’t form a convenient -ism.
While capital-R Racism might be based on power, does that completely eliminate the existence of lowercase-r racism, that could exist independent of a power dynamic?
Can a woman be sexist toward another woman? (or, for instance, some far right women who advocate for repealing women’s voting rights, or assume women are incapable of leadership)
Can a man be sexist toward another man? (or is this solely toxic masculinity? Is toxic femininity a thing? Can both men and women express/perpetuate toxic masculinity and toxic femininity, or is it gender specific?)
Can a white person be racist toward another white person? A black person racist toward another black person? What if a white person is racist toward an Asian…while in Japan, where they do not hold any power?
I ask these things because I’m really genuinely curious, possibly slightly autistic, and a math person…so my brain really likes the idea of being able to construct a set of definitions and equations to help equitably figure these things out.
But only a single formula “Racism = Prejudice + Power” to say “No black person could ever be racist against a white person, in any way whatsoever” just feels…incomplete. I need more understanding.
My college didn’t have any gender studies programs to take, and most of what I’ve learned online through self-study has been…varied, and at times contradictory. So I’m always still trying to learn and understand more.
To quote Stokely Carmichael from back in the day: “If a white man wants to lynch me, that’s his problem. If he’s got the power to lynch me, that’s my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it’s a question of power.
“You cannot be a racist without power. You cannot be a sexist without power. Even men who beat their wives get this power from the society which allows it, condones it, encourages it.”
That said, both women and black people can definitely participate in systemic sexism and racism. Women actually play a huge role in enforcing sexism – especially in raising children in ways that reinforce it. Consider Carol – the homophobia is more focused on, but the limits on Joyce are at least as much sexist.
So when you’re looking at lowercase-r racism, it sounds like you’re talking about prejudice. It might make more sense to you to say that Prejudice+Action taken because of said Prejudice=Racism
Hiring practices are a fantastic example of where prejudice and racism differ.
If somebody doesnt like black people, they can choose not to sit next to them at the table or cross the street when they walk. That’s prejudice. If they specifically don’t hire black people, or throw away resumes with black-sounding names, that’s racism.
Sexism is the same thing. If somebody doesn’t like hanging out with other women for whatever reason, that’s prejudice, but if somebody works in HR and intentionally only pushes forward the resumes of men for consideration, that’s Sexist.
Etc, etc. I can give you examples for all of your questions.
For the Black racist example, it works in the same way. If a black boss doesn’t interview “Ian” and does interview “Dwayne” solely based on the name and their perceived perceptions of what those names mean, that is Racist. Its STILL racist if “Dwayne” ended up being white and not being hired for that reason.
It doesn’t have to be big massive POWER, like governmental or something, it can be as small as “I usually use my snowblower to clear the driveways of my neighbors but that black family moved in and I didn’t do their driveway” That’s racist, because prejudice+action based on prejudice = measurable harm or inconvenience to the party prejudiced against.
Well they didn’t say “black girls can’t be racist.” They said “you can’t be racist towards white people.”
Those are very different statements. One is something entrenched in the individual while the other acknowledges context amongst race relations.
being shitty and being racist can intersect but they’re not the same thing (same principle as squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares). Calling a white person wonderbread is not racist in this context and I genuinely struggle to think of any context in which it would be genuinely racist.
Nah, Derek is right. If you’re gonna argue, explain first how Black people and even Japanese people are systemically oppressing white people in America.
Derek, any time anyone treats anyone in a particular way *because of* their ethnicity, that is racist. No matter what the ethnicity of either party is. Don’t try to excuse racism from anyone who isn’t white just because white people have an awful track record of racism.
+1
+1 as well
the “it doesn’t count against the privileged” was added in to make people feel better about their own racism. And it’s an entirely American-centric viewpoint, because you never see people parading this version of racism around when it comes to any other place on the planet but the US.
Yeah if I went to china or Japan it wouldn’t suddenly be ok to throw out slurs or display racial bias towards asians just because they’re the majority there. I wish acknowledging your own bias wasn’t treated the same as “denying systemic racisms generational effect on how people survive in this country” as if both cant be true.
My concern is why people are saying black people cannot be racist. And when its as a way to defend someone from their own willfully shitty behavior I find it doing more harm than good.
Excellent point about not going to another country and being rude to people just because they are the dominating demographic.
I really appreciate everything you said in those conversation, Yotomoe. This is the kind of interpersonal solidarity I believe we need to also have political solidarity. I also just think your viewpoint is very down to earth in terms of how regular everyday people want and need to interact with other to form healthy human bonds.
But that was generally because in the past deeply racist times, someone from an oppressed group being openly racist towards the privileged group would find themselves lynched.
Back in slavery days or even Jim Crow, of course black people were prejudiced against whites. What’s the alternative?
It’s only in recent times when it’s starting to be safe to express such ideas, that it even comes up for debate. No one 50 years ago would even have considered the idea of racism being personal, not systemic.
I would argue this is a global thing. China has a high demand for white workers. South Korea uses white people as a standard of beauty. South Africa has a white minority with a lot of power.
Not really. There are very obvious racial observations that are racist and others that aren’t.
This isn’t even something excuse to white people.
For example if someone was to call a black kid a monkey that would be racist but if they called a black kid a chipmunk, not including any context I might not be aware of, that wouldn’t be racist.
There endless examples you can make.
Black people love grape soda vs asian people love grape soda.
Jewish people are wealthy vs native Americans are wealthy.
Asian people talk funny vs white people talk funny.
Context matters, here too though. Like a while ago there was this whole conversation in the comments about whether Joyce was being racist for saying she was a monkey…or a dumb monkey or something. It had nothing to do with race at all, it was about her accepting evolution instead of creationism.
Someone could be talking about being a monkey in that context and even apply it to a black person, because they are applying it to *any* human, and it wouldn’t be racist. It’s just a colloquial turn of phrase about our evolution, where monkey is being used as a synonym with primate.
Some people try to argue for using a word at all even if it *reminds* them of it being used in a negative context – but then we just need new words to describe those things, and they will also take on negative connotations. I remember a while back it being a trend to call Donald Trump “45” as in the 45th POTUS. After being around people doing this for a little while, I noticed that when I saw the number 45 in a totally neutral context, I had a negative emotional reaction. I stopped participating in that trend abruptly at that point and argued against it to other people. No thanks to spreading the negative feelings about Trump to other words and concepts – let’s keep that shit contained. Just like let’s keep negative racist connotations of words contained to when they actually apply in context, rather than spreading them out to other usages by association.
No sir or ma’am or gentleperson; recent and current political events, including protests precipitated by continued police brutality that’s pointedly anti-black have made it necessary to have a more specific formal definition of racism and Jon posted it up in the thread: “Racism = Prejudice + Power”.
One can’t be racist against white people in the USA as things currently stand. One could be mean, shitty, prejudiced, irrationally violent towards them; and those are all bad things. It’s not racism. It won’t be racism until there’s a system in place that makes it a lot harder for white people to get jobs, get housing, get married and a lot more common for them to get harassed and sometimes murdered for merely existing as visibly white in public spaces.
You cannot impose a new definition for a word on other people, that’s just not how language works. (You also shouldn’t be trying to impose the use of a formal definition into colloquial conversation in general- this is an internet forum and not an academic discourse, formal sociological definitions are jargon which are being misapplied here)
This particular definition of racism isn’t wrong, it’s just one of a number of different ways that people use the word. Nearly every word has multiple definitions which we understand from context, artificially trying to limit this word to only one definition is a fool’s errand that will never work, because it opposes the natural process of language, and mistakes a descriptive definition for a proscriptive one.
This isn’t a new definition. It’s the old definition. No one back in the Jim Crow days would have talked about black people being racist to white folks. It doesn’t even make sense.
A+. I wanted to say something similar but was reading this from my phone the other day. Trying to impose definitions and not understanding what someone means in context isn’t helpful to understanding each other. If it is clear from a conversation that by racism someone means “personal prejudice” and not “systemic racism,” just…move on, and continue communicating. It’s not that hard to understand, and trying to impose these definitions on people doesn’t seem to have actually reduced racism in society.
You absolutely can be racist against any ethnicity, even if it’s the majority like whites in most of the US. Treating someone badly because of their ethnicity is racist. That’s pretty much the definition of racism.
When I was younger, “isms” (Like Racism) meant institutions or systems of thought. But in the OED, 2004, “ism” added definitions about denigrating others or belief in the superiority of and specifically calling out sexism, racism, etc as examples. So words change what they mean over time in English, and this is an example right in front of us that for nearly 2 decades, ism does not mean institutions anymore. But change is hard, and there is no Word Police making sure you follow Dictionary Rules.
This.
Which is amusing because the usual argument from the “reverse racism” types is the definition was always personal and only modern woke types tried to tie it to institutional power to protect black people from being called racist.
I don’t think anybody in the comments here was saying that systemic racism doesn’t exist, we know that. But it’s also true that individual people can be racist against any ethnicity, including the majority ethnicity.
It’s kind of that we use the same word to apply to two somewhat different concepts. And then racist trolls use that confusion to make it seem like “reverse racism” is the real problem.
That’s why I never use terms like Reverse Racism. Being a dick is being a dick no matter who it’s against. Being a dick to someone you think “deserves it” or “won’t be hurt as much” by it doesn’t make you less of a dick. I don’t want to not call the people doing it out on it just because some people will use that in bad faith. Systemic Racism and person-to-person racism are as different as a Forest Fire or a fire on your stove. Both could kill you but it’s situational which one is more of a threat at the given moment and I think that nuance is important.
My issue is mostly that whenever someone says something rude and someone calls them out on it we always get a lotta pushback to say “Nu-uh. That mean thing they just said or did wasn’t racism” without saying “But it was bigoted, fuck you” or “But we won’t tolerate it, leave.” It’s not ok to just excuse it just because it’s not “racism”. I feel like not calling it racism strikes people as “It’s not a big deal” or “people upset about it are bad people”. And that rubs me the wrong way.
The general claim for reverse racism though is that it is systemic. That white people are the ones the system is prejudiced against.
The whole “Why isn’t there a White People’s Month?” argument.
Yeah, that right there is just bullshit and should be called out as such.
Well, I agree with what Derek said. I do think anyone can be racist, but I don’t think you can be racist against white people. You can be bigoted and prejudice against white people, and if you see someone being shitty to white people because of their race, you can tell them they’re being shitty. I don’t agree with calling it racism, though; if we acknowledge the experience of a group in power being mistreated is not equivalent to the mistreatment of those who don’t benefit from that power, why do we have to use an equivalent term for that mistreatment?
So yeah, I do view racism as tied to systems/institutions. People can argue changing definitions (though that “ism” part seems a little weak), but then I have to wonder, who is leading the charge in those changing definitions? Who benefits from them changing? My experience has been with white people who want to position themselves as also being victims of racism; I’ve often seen it come up when POC are sharing their own experiences. It might be an attempt to express empathy or an attempt to escape the discomfort that one might benefit from racial privilege– but it generally misses the mark on being empathetic, and it’s okay for things to be uncomfortable.
^ this. Racism is systemic bigotry. White people don’t experience racism because they are not the victims of systemic bigotry. I’ve absolutely had people be shitty to me by judging me for being white, and as a white person, that can hurt! But that’s not racism IMO because it’s not contributing to the massive societal systems that promote white power. And in my experience, responding to their judgment with “hey don’t be racist” will usually end up with a whole bunch of other white people becoming very racist at the POC involved.
You’re thinking about systemic racism specifically.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
If Danny has any issue with being called Wonderbread, maybe he should say so.
Also this.
He probably would have said so by now.
Is it racist to call a white person Wonderbread? Last time I asked something like that, the consensus seemed to be “No, white people can’t be the victim of racism when they’re the controlling majority.”
Even if you could, wonderbread is not necessarily white bread. They have different kinds.
Buh-loney.
Alright, we’ve got some Wonderbread, some balogna, we’re on our way to making a better-than-starving-to-death foldover.
The idea that someone who’s not marginalised could be the victim of actual-factual racism, it’s kind of a stupid one. It just doesn’t make sense that the ones with the majority of power could be legitimately wronged or harmed by some seriously low-grade name calling. Granted, it’s better than calling him vanilla, because at least vanilla tastes like something.
No, because wonderbread isn’t racial. It’s akin to calling someone boring or vanilla. The item happens to be white bread, that does not mean it exclusively refers to white people.
Anybody of any race can be wonderbread if they have the excitement and daringness of wet cardboard!
(Not hating on Danny here, I actually like him outside of a couple instances that make me go “Hmm.” I’ve just never heard wonderbread used to refer to a white person specifically for being white.)
The most racist thing about wonderbread is that one guy who keeps bothering commission artists about it.
Yeah, I’ve never read wonderbread as racially based. I just read it in the same way as the term milquetoast. Danny doesn’t have much that makes anyone upset, doesn’t really get in anyone’s way, doesn’t have as “flavor,” to put it in food terms. Much like Wonder Bread. There’s nothing racial about it. It just means someone who isn’t aggressive and is kind of a pushover, which Danny really tends to be.
Can you feel like people are being racist against you if you’re white?
For sure!!!
…If you’re proud of being white.
Which you deserve to be relentlessly mocked and/or insulted for.
Oooooh, you went theeere, oooooooh~ 👻
I hate this mentality, honestly. I was born black. I have no reason to be proud of it. I did nothing to earn it. I live in the suburbs, I watch anime. I don’t get pulled over or treated like garbage.
But if someone called me a slur I’m gonna be offended. Because I’m being treated badly for something beyond my control.
but are there even slurs about white people?
No. Because it’s just not comparable. There aren’t slurs about men, or straight people, or Americans. Its a power thing. Its political, not personal.
There’s only insults for when they’re acting like privileged shitheads, like “fascist”.
I realize I’m not explaining myself very well, but its early morning here and i haven’t had my coffee yet
But hopefully i can talk more gooder when im awaked x_x snoz
Cracker, Honkey, White boy, Yt, Whitey and that’s just off the top of my head.
It’s not about Comparison. Let’s not compare trauma.
Let me put it like this. You don’t know what people are dealing with. You have no idea how much people hate themselves. You don’t know who’s tetering on the edge. And don’t make excuse for treating people like shit for things beyond their control, even if they’re in a position of power.
Please understand, It’s not saying there’s not a disperity. I’m saying that’s not an EXCUSE. And too many people use it as one. If you sit around talking about how much you hate white people, think they’re lesser, or treat them like shit, You’re racist. I don’t care.
My mom told me if I married a white woman she wouldn’t accept her.
My mom told me she believes white people are inherently evil.
And I’m supposed to just sit around and say “That’s A-OK!”. She has her reasons but NO. That’s fucked up. It’s fucked up to treat people like that. My white roommate is my best friend and if anyone spoke to him like that I would beat the shit out of them. Because that man…I love him. It really pisses me off.
Aw man. Sorry to hear that about your mom.
I don’t want to argue with you over this. We’d better agree to disagree, because my sentiment is coming from a different place but i don’t think it’s something i can be reasoned out of at this point. I’m spooked about the increasing acceptableness of fascist talking points, and this is a potent dogwhistle. Not always consciously of course, bit thats exactly the problem right there, that normal people find it cool and legitimate to talk about reverse racism and i’m reacting to that.
There are deeper conversations to be had but this is where my immediate concern is. Sorry for being simplistic and flippant with you
It’s fine. I’m just coming from the POV of someone who grew up around African Americans and some of the most shitty stuff will come out of their mouth. And I’m sick of hearing them justify it by saying “oh black people can’t be racist”. And that bigotry goes on to homophobia, transphobia, racism against POC other than black people.
I get that it can seem like a dogwhistle but I’ve just been too privy to so much Hypocrisy and people getting away with it because they don’t wanna seem like an asshole. I don’t use terms like “reverse racism”(cuz I think the reverse of racism would be acceptance and love :P) but I will call a spade a spade if I see it.
You act crappy to someone based on their race, I’m calling you a racist. I don’t care what you look like or who you’re doing it to.
Sorry for being so immovable on this. I don’t wanna argue anymore either but I wanna stress, it’s not a dogwhistle. I hope I didn’t come off like an asshole.
No definitely not. you’re arguing on behalf of generosity and against prejudice. And your perspective makes perfect sense. I hate to argue with you even though we wouldnt agree here no matter how deep we scratch at this.
The problem with calling something a dogwhistle is that then everyone starts assuming that when someone is saying something using a certain phrase in good faith, the assumption is that it is not – even though the majority of people may be using the phrasing in good faith. And this can lead to feeling like the world is a much more dangerous place than it is, and dismissing what people are saying when they are communicating in good faith. It’s a form of hypervigilance. Not saying there aren’t good reasons to be hypervigilant, but we all also bear some responsibility to try to temper our hypervigilance and be discerning about when it is called for, so we don’t just keep escalating situations.
“are there even slurs about white people?” Sure. Ask the Irish. The Italians. The Poles. The Lithuanians. White people who entered the pecking order at the bottom. ( now guess which one i am )
And no, I don’t want a fight. Your lack of coffee betrayed you. Your caffeinated self knows better.
Not the point though. There are slurs for specific sub-groups of white people, but that’s not the same. Saying some groups of white people were treated as out-groups doesn’t mean that white people in general get slurs.
It means those groups didn’t get treated as fully white and thus didn’t get the full privilege that comes with it.
OMG CAN’T BELIEVE SAL IS A RACIST NOW
YOU KNOW WHO ELSE WAS A RACIST
MOTHERFUCKIN NAZIS THATS WHO
Hey wait, you can’t call Nazis racist! You’ll offend the braindead subtterranean elk-people who identify with them politically and ideologically but don’t have the courage to admit it in polite company because they know it’s wrong to live that way!
Do you think that this is what he actually thinks??
I think nibbling ears is actually a rarer fetish than getting yelled at.
I think it’s become a pet name, and Danny finds it vaguely endearing.
I’m “wonderin” about quite a lot of the posters here. https://www.dumbingofage.com/lit/
Anyways, I had a “Wonderbread” baseball cap when I was a teen.
a week seems pretty fast for ‘dating’, even among college students, if they are dating ‘properly’ as opposed to just meeting at a frat party/hooking up but it’d be an amusing future couple thing if they did get married and putting a flower in the vase or so would be a signal for later in the evening when they come home from jobs or so
+1 on all counts.
‘dating’ in college is weird. Or at least was in my day.
Sometimes the transition from just friends hanging out to dating starts with the sex. Actual dates can be much later.
Dan and Sal are delightful, both in this strip and in general.
The energy Danny is bringing to this exchange is golden.
“I have an hour before study group” sounds like a pretty sorry way to inaugurate sex in such a sweet relationship. Cripes lady, buy me dinner first
I think he’s just off his game a bit due to the absurdity situation. Or hopefully he’s lightly poking fun. I can see him having a talk with her over this regarding feelings and other mushy non-spontaneous stuff.
Yeah, the conversation is pretty funny, but Sal is clearly acting out of identity crisis as opposed to horniness. In reality Dan is probably sharp enough to pick up on that
I mean given the situation its not that weird a way to respond.
If she were initiating sex or opening the door for sex it in a different less urgent way she’d no doubt get different more romantic results.
Actually, now that I think about it, showing up in your window and angrily demanding sex is pretty romantic, it’s like a more assertive version of Romeo
I don’t know Sal I think you’ve just been really enjoying each other’s company and Dannys not only dating you just to get into your pants?
Chances are you if Lucy hadn’t brought this up the two of you would have gone weeks before you realized you forgot to make love.
“Making love” is such an ugly way of putting it. I believe the romantic term is “doinking”.
We will have to consult Jason.
“Bump uglies”.
“Rail on each other til neither of you can walk straight and the crisp early spring air stings against your chapped and chuffed thighs through your too tight jeans.”
THUMPA-SPRUNG
“Bone so hard you’ll have to walk sideways for the rest of your lives after using up all your up and down.”
“slap-jacking”
I suspect that that’s where this conversation is going. Give it another strip or two.
Mixing profanity levels continues to be great. “Gaddanged” followed by “Why ain’t we fucked yet?”
I haven’t been paying attention to if this is a pattern with Sal or not but fucked is profanity. Goddamned is blasphemy. Regardless of her own religious views my recollection is the private school she went to was a religious one. She might have picked up the habit of censoring blasphemy to have an easier time with the authority figures there and not gotten rid of it.
It took scrolling through a few old strips with her in it but my theory doesn’t pan out. She has blasphemed uncensored before.
And said blasphemy usually involved Malaya, I’m sure.
My relatively limited experience with religious authority figures is that while they might argue such a theoretical distinction, they’ll punish you for either profanity or blasphemy.
But often times get more upset about blasphemy even though they’ll punish you for both.
Yarp, that’s your problem there. Danny never wants to drop his hat again.
Or, at least, maybe what happened in the music room wasn’t enough.
*plays It’s Gonna Be Me on the ukulele*
Danny is a lucky man, I’ve never had a girlfriend want to get into my pants within the first week of dating. Although all my exes were long distance relationships, so that does limit things.
Unfortunately I currently live in the middle of nowhere and I’m not allowed to drive anymore. So my chances of getting a girlfriend are basically nonexistent, let alone my chances of getting laid.
I’m amused by the thought of what this looks like for people on the ground outside. Just Sal clinging to a window yelling “WHY AIN’T WE FUCKED YET?!” at someone unseen inside the building.
I mean, I did have a friend in college who, while we were walking across campus, middle of the day, out of nowhere, angrily shout “Why the hell don’t you believe in quickies?” at me. to the amusment (if not delight) of students and professors alike.
Honestly to this day I don’t understand why the British guy whose name I momentarily forget had to quit his job and endanger his student visa over having sex with Sal.
This current comic just adds to the pile of evidence that Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto.
The reason why it’s wrong for a TA to have a relationship with a student is because of the power imbalance, and we the omnipercipient readers know for a fact that Jason (is that his name?) never abused his position to exhort sexual favours. In fact he went out of his way to not show favouritism, which did the opposite of endearing him to Sal.
It was still incredibly stupid and wrong to have sex with a student, but losing his job and jeopardizing his visa is an entirely nonsensical and self inflicted punishment.
He didn’t have to quit because there was no proof that he had sex with a student (which is grounds for firing).
He chose not to contest the accusation because he knew he had, in fact, had sex with a student. The fact nobody knew for sure or would probably be able to prove it didn’t make him feel better.
Sal literally had sex with him for grades and he allowed that. The fact that it didn’t WORK does not change the fact that that is abuse of position for sex. It is his responsibility to say no.
If I remember correctly, he didn’t actually give her good grades for the act though. He only gave her good grades, after she started earning good grades. To her, it might have been “Sleep with teacher for grades”, to him it was just regular sexy times, that happened to be with a student. I applaud him for his willingness to throw away his career for feeling bad over it though. He didn’t break his principles. He just…cracked them a little. But then still felt bad enough over just that, to quit. Principled to a fault.
Again: The fact that it didn’t work doesn’t change what it was. She STATED TO HIM EXPLICITLY that it was for grades. He weaseled about it later that he ‘only’ said yes to the sex and not to the grades, which is utter bullshit. Whatever his intention to follow through or not, the expectation was clearly there, which is the abuse.
Wait, when did she say that? I thought she just jumped on top of him and assumed the grades were a given, much to her later surprise and fury. They are both definitely guilty of doing something wrong (and fireable/expellable), but I don’t think she spelled out a quid quo pro in advance.
She said some stuff to the effect of “Hey, only my marks count, riiiiiiight?”, he said it was unethical, she said “Yeah. :)” and that’s about where the conversation ended. She was pretty heavily hinting, and my assumption is that he’s either dense as a moon, or he conveniently ignored that part because a topless Sal was currently sitting in his lap and he only has so much willpower/integrity. Not enough integrity to avoid fucking a student, but just enough not to lie and say he didn’t.
Also, an idle thought that’s sort of related. If he hadn’t had consensual sex with Sal in that moment, I wonder how many people would be speculating on whether he’s a closeted gay man, calling him a moron for saying no to all of Sal’s sexy (her words, I think), and otherwise coming up with reasons he’d still be in the wrong. Cuz it’s not like he’d be clearing a particular high bar, so I don’t think we’d get more charitable reads than “At least he turned her down”.
At that point in the story, Jason was generally pretty cold-hearted, even when he was attempting to help someone. It follows his pattern of behavior at the time that he understood she wanted a grades boost but didn’t feel like she was entitled to an automatic explanation, she would just find out when she got her bad grades. A slightly more ethical, but obviously mood-killing thing to do would be to actually say “this doesn’t mean I’m rigging your grades” before doin it.
as for the second part:
Eh, it was pretty strongly telegraphed that he was attracted to her before the affair (and also they were together in the Walkyverse, so there’s that.)
“principled to a fault”
he fucked a student.
Well yes, that looks bad on paper. But you see, he pulled out, which makes it ethical again. Don’t hire me as a lawyer if you fuck a student, I’ll definitely get you a harsher penalty.
Jason isn’t a bad guy, he just did something very unethical. If he’s allowed to get away with it, that makes things much easier for corrupt/predatory people that actually do want to take advantage.
but he DID technically “get away with it”, him leaving was entirely voluntary. The administration still knows NOTHING about the situation. Nothing here suggests that his leaving his position will help anyone in a similar situation in the future
It won’t help others, but the admin did know about it. They were told by Penny and told him he should bring the student in question in if he wanted to defend himself.
I don’t think that’s quite what Dday meant though, but that rules that would have let him get away with it, would be very open to abuse by the corrupt/predatory ones.
If you think about it, the reason he went down without a fight is probably cause he didn’t want Sal to get exposed. He still deserved to get fired, but it counts for something.
Also, I don’t know if Jason could have successfully mounted a she’s-a-slut defense to retain his position, but I do know he would be a far less sympathetic character to me if he tried.
Yes, it is a self-inflicted punishment… because Jason knows it was wrong of him to have said yes to it at all ever. And knows it was even scummier of him to sleep with Sal and not follow through with what seemed to be the agreed terms just so he could pretend to be moral and righteous after the fact.
Did he HAVE to accept the accusation against him? No, he easily could have gotten away with it consequence free, Sal isn’t a narc and Penny had no proof, but the accusation was TRUE and he felt guilty and like he deserved to be punished.
It isn’t a decision based on practicality, but on emotion and his sense of principles and morals. He didn’t feel he deserved to still be in his position or to get away with his wrongdoing just because the person who accused him couldn’t prove it.
Just because Sal will willingly have sex with people that are basically strangers doesn’t mean it was acceptable for him to say yes to her in the position he was in. The accusation had nothing to do with whether Sal consented or not, and was entirely about whether Jason was sleeping with students or not, and he knew he did, and didn’t want to carry that around as a secret forever by getting away with it.
You make these kinds of things hard and fast rules so that abusers can’t weasel their way around them with arguments like “she’s a slut anyway” or “But I didn’t actually change her grades”.
HUH??? when did I call Sal a slut???
Nobody said that, either.
For crying out loud. You didn’t say it, nobody said you said it, thejeff was using the phrase “she’s a slut anyway” as an example out what a weasely abuser would say to justify unethical fucking. Hypothetical abuser only, specifically Jason in the context of that scene. Not you. Unless you fit that description, in which case you. But probably (hopefully) not you.
Some one else used the “she’s-a-slut” defense line up a bit, so it was on my mind.
And frankly, though you didn’t use the word, that’s exactly what using “Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto” as a defense to his firing would be.
@Derek: From your post: “This current comic just adds to the pile of evidence that Sal initiates spontaneous sex with strangers or near-strangers consensually and with gusto.”
If you want to explain why that is relevant to Jason’s defense that does not boil down to calling her a slut, I am willing to listen, but I am not expecting to be impressed.
*sighs* Well I’m guessing it’s time for another season of Sal gravitar searching!
And ahhhhh these two are so cute.
You can do it, I got lucky and it only took me one try; unlike last time when it took me a dozen tries.
I eventually just copied a Dina gravitar and used it as a custom one.
Wait, you can do that???
Absolutely not. It would break the laws of physics as we know them.
Go to Gravatar.com, create an account with the same email you use here, and this site will pull your avatar from whatever you select there.
I had no idea.
That’s valid, but it’d take the fun out of it for me. 😛
It’s about the hunt.
I thought I had Sal but then when I saw it was Joyce doing her Sal impression I figured that’s close enough.
Woohoo! My blorbos are here!
i just wanna see who i got
o h n o
o h y e s.
my condolences
Huh, this conversation was ridiculous enough that I actually like this ship now. The indifference barrier has been breached! We’re taking on water! And that water has boats in it!
To be honest, I’m not sure Danny will figure it out when it’s happening. After, probably.
Low-key hoping he invites her in and very sweetly asks if she’d be alright with some makeouts, and Sal protests that that’s not sexy at all and immediate smashcut to the pair of them in a state of messy undress.
https://imgur.com/a/Q1AEcqW (NSFW, while imgur still lets me do that)
Just…had to get this outta my system.
Damn it, my one weakness: Flashing. Deliberate and purposeful exposure is cool and good.
RIGHT!? That’s exactly why I like it. The intention behind it. Intent is sexy!
Bahaha
Jennifer’s like “OK but have you considered:”
She makes a compelling argument.
Wait, those are boobs. Does she know they’re visible?
It’d be weirder if they were invisible!
so if they were invisible, would Jennifer just look like she didn’t have any boobs? like she’d just be flat? Or would she just have two large oblong oval windows showing the fat and musculature of her chest?
That’s creepy, but also potentially educational.
You can crawl in and be safe and warm forever…
nice lol and good detail on giving her brown nipples, sometimes ppl still draw pink nipples for asians (though i wonder if the coloring [has jen had an official slipshine yet?] would be slightly diff since she’s mixed even tho she looks more asian physically/genetically and not many half white/english traits lol)
They’re a little lighter/pinker in the Slipshines and pinups, I checked. Not by a whole lot.
Side by side, the colors are actually a lot more different than they looked at a glance.
I always say “more people probably have brown nipples than pink. Since there’s also some Asian and white skin tones that have brown nipples.
Oh, Sal.
(also, wow, time dilation, would have sworn it was a month or two, not just… a week?)
It’s still January, second Thursday of classes. Whenever I start looking at how far back I think something happened, I hear ♪It’s been one week…♫
Should I pencil you in? I’ll pencil you in.
NO Wonderbread, I don’t want you to pencil me in, I want you to pencil in me!
Pencil? We all know Danny has a perfectly adequate penis. It’s not exactly girthy, but it’s certainly not a pencil.
It was the best joke I could come up with! I’m sorry Danny! I’m sorry!
Meh, there’s pencils and there’s pencils. I hope for Sal’s sake that this doesn’t apply to Danny: https://images.urbndata.com/is/image/UrbanOutfitters/29552973_000_b?$xlarge$&fit=constrain&qlt=80&wid=640
Maybe she’s into hexagonal cock, you don’t know.
Sal once again being fun
This sounds sarcastic i promise its not
Sex is different for different people.
Sex is different for one person with different people.
Sex is different for one person with the same person under different circumstances.
Sex is different for one person with the same person under the same circumstances.
Welcome, Sal, to the next step in your journey of discovery.
Nothing is certain.
yes, I suppose he’ll notice when you’re riding him, Sal
I’ll be honest, I kinda wish we got to see more of Leslie’s class. Early in the comic Willis would often have a lot of character interactions based on Leslie’s lessons and I really enjoyed that. It’d especially be interesting with our current group of characters in her class. A few of them don’t get a lotta focus atm.
Yeah, I would have liked that also. But I’d doubt that any useful teaching will happen in that class today because …
CARLA!
of all the characters having to confront the falseness of the facade they’ve presented to the world, I did not have Sal on the list and I am so happy to see it
I forget how compressed time is here. Feels like these two have been a thing FOREEEEEVER!
It’s like we’re all living it the hyperbolic time chamber.
I was so surprised it had only been a week!
I know what you mean. The last three years somehow feel like they’ve both flown by and dragged on forever.
… Oh, you mean in the comic!
It helps that they’re the last age where “we’ve been together for A WEEK!” can be said so dramatically unironically
Gravitars changed??? Who do I got???
YEAAAAAA
*drops hat* sounds fine. A window ledge is an odd choice, but…
(oh lordy thats perfect thanks grav season)
“Well Sal… typically sex comes to be more complicated with feelings attached. I know I’ve been respecting your agency in this regard, and really not trying to push it. I like knowing my partners pretty well before we christian this vessel of young love and shove off into choppy waters of… turbulent motion.”
XD being about middle of the slider on asexuality, specifically demi-pansexual panromantic, I know I cant fathom how people would go off to smash over the course of a few hours or days.
Well, I don’t think that would be a first for Dan. Back when he and Amazi-Girl were an item, Danny told Joe that he was willing and able to perform oral sex while swinging on a grappling hook. Sal is probably going to be in for several very pleasant surprises in the near future.
I clearly need to deliver gifts of flowers more often than I currently do.
florists can be expensive, if its the thought that counts/you know yhour partners preference, maybe you can pick some local wildflowers as long as it’s allowed/no allergies, or simply ‘make’ some paper flowers/something similar
Plus, gotta make sure your partner is actually IN to flowers first. 😉 I once dated a girl who absolutely HATED getting flowers because she couldn’t stand the thought of being handed a living thing that basically got chopped up and sentenced to die just because somebody thought they looked pretty.
I clearly need to receive gifts of flowers more often than I currently do.
No… Not Asher gravitar! Eh, oh well.
Sal is this maybe about your choices and not Danny
Danny has become the Dorothy of the relationship
The real question is who Fluffmodeous will be in the Something Positive knock-off?
Look, if we ain’t using doors, at least open the bloody window before shouting.
To adapt a phrase from an entirely different situation: “If you’re going to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk.”
A new slipshine looms on the horizon.
Looks like both Jennie and Sal are having a very normal morning today.
Like seriously, panicking so hard she went back to calling him Wonderbread of all things
I’m not sure she ever really stopped. She’s called him “Danny” the last couple of interactions she’s addressed him by ‘name’ but the last time she called him wonderbread wasn’t that long ago chronologically
It’s the first of May, first of May
Something something starts today
Now’s the time for all the people to get together …outside
Sex at the drop of a hat? If I was Danny I’d be dropping my hat.
Who, who did I get
Righteous
Yeah, no pressure…
I love the combination of “this happens when I want it to happen” and “why hasn’t this happened?!”
Heh, this was pretty good.
good god, it’s only been a week for them? DOA timeline makes me jealous. Freaking April went by in the blink of an eye.
I’ve had a number of talks about this, but never any like this: So simultaneously cool yet confusing as what Sal’s laying on Danny here.
Ooooh nice, I was sick of being Agatha, I wonder who I am now
… I’ll take it
Hmmm… Sal went to a Catholic boarding school, right? Where officially you aren’t supposed to have sex outside of marriage, but in practice this often ends up being “It is sinful to plan to have sex, but if it is spontaneous that’s OK, or at least forgivable.”
I wonder if this “only have sex when I decide to on the spur of the moment” thing is a weird mutant version of that.
I just hope that one or both of them carry condoms routinely.
(Or IU just has bowls of them everywhere like the Smif library in QC.)
As someone who was raised Catholic, you’re spot on. A spontaneous fall from Grace is a venial sin and forgivable. But if you planned it and prepared protection, well it was premeditated. Bigger sin. Much much bigger. So Big!
i mean, it’s not exactly like she went to it voluntarily unless you mean she was ‘spontaneously having sex’ just to do it to spite the rules taught
and, ppl have said that some college campuses give free condoms so i’d hope it’d be available because you don’t hear as much about ‘pregnant dropouts’ for college specifically versus public school
Man Sal would be creepy if she presented as a dude. But now I have to worry about pushy dudes through the lens of their insecurity. At least, the harmless dudes.
I won the gravitar jackpot!
When men are insecure it can only be because they lack moral fiber and demand total domination over all things. This in no way harms them or other men, and definitely isn’t a problem that needs to be addressed, just please villainize all men regardless of whether they’re actively causing harm. Cuz y’know, it’s only a matter of time before a man does something, so it’s better to assume he’s already done/doing it and shun him before he gets the chance. Suspect everyone, even yourself (if you’re a guy), of everything.
(Purely tongue in cheek here, of course. Not serious, jesting, poking fun, and so on.)
A WEEK? I dunno man, feels like it’s been a couple of years to me…
Horniness often distorts your sense of time…
Phenomenal. Are we gonna get a new sexy Slipshine? Let’s hope so!
Are there any non-sexy Slipshines?
I’m not especially into Split Check, does that count? It’s mostly been internal fast food politics, which I’m sure is somebody’s thing, but it don’t do much for me.
well it is an ‘exclusively sexual comics’ type site but it would be amusing if they had some kinda ‘mascot’ and drew her just doing slice of life normal stuff that’s not necessarily sexual or so as some kinda ad lol
though, i do remember some artist doing ‘redraws’/clowning on one wlw webcomic where the main charas had exaggerated faces/expressions/anatomy, even for pornl ol
How many new gravs did Willis add?
At least 2.
Pika pika? If one is Charlie what’s the other one? 😮
Lucy’s brother, Lyle, is in the rotation now. I don’t remember the Gravatars shuffling after he made his first appearance, but maybe he was added at the time.
Something else about this scene, that I only now thought of, is that Sal’s currently shouting about fucking Danny on the edge of a window. I wonder who can see her up there.
She’s currently shouting about not fucking Danny. And I’m currently shouting about how the server needs a kick because it’s 12:07 and the update isn’t here yet. Hopefully when I refresh again after this.
Sal is willfully exposing Danny to her sexual hang-ups and neuroses. This, too, is a form of vulnerability.
They’re going to have the most sad, kind and amicable breakup ever. But I’ve been there. Sometimes, you’re better off as friends.