I get the feeling that Becky wanted everyone to know, but Joyce not to know, so no one should tell Joyce, but also if someone did let it slip to Joyce that would actually be ok because then Becky would get out of the difficult job of eventually telling Joyce.
In the back of her consciousness, Becky designed this plan to fail.
Does it matter? People’s sex lives are their own business. They get to choose who they do and don’t tell; telling someone else without their permission is out of line.
If she wasnt told not to tell joyce, with how Becky was literally going around yelling it at people, she wouldn’t have known it wasnt supposed to be public at that point. They were telling EVERYBODY but Joyce after all.
It’s possible that Sarah actually told Joyce before the confrontation with Carla, and Sarah didn’t put forward that reveal. “don’t worry about Carla telling her, i already did”.
Also, there’s a huge difference between actively spreading gossip and answering a question when directly asked. I have been asked by people not to share certain information and I always respond with “I won’t volunteer it, but if I’m directly asked I won’t lie”. Now, sometimes this means when asked I’ll say “I was asked not to talk about that, you need to ask so and so if you wanna know” because I am all about respecting people’s secrets, and I’ve complained about Smallville’s drama enough times to know that “yes I’m keeping a secret, but it’s not my secret to share so deal with it” is often a very valid response.
Other times, I know that responding like that will only serve to cause more problems in the long run and will just explain the situation because I refuse to participate in pointless drama. I imagine Sarah saw this as such a case, and frankly I agree.
Shit, /I’m/ copying this, there’ve been times in my life where that would have been a handy response to have in my lexicon when I’ve been put on the spot.
Yeah, so many of the conflicts involving Chloe could have been handled using some carefully worded honesty. Before she learned Clark’s secret “yes, I’m keeping a secret, it’s nothing personal but I want to minimize the number of people who know. Pete only knows because he found out under extreme circumstances. I do trust you, but please respect my boundaries.” would likely have gotten her to calm down and be patient like 3 seasons sooner than she did.
When Jimmy was suspicious of her keeping secrets for Clark, instead of denying there were secrets she should have been like “yes I’m keeping secrets, because my friend chose to trust me with them, and while I love you I can’t betray his trust.”
It’s not hard to both avoid lying to people AND still keep secrets you’ve been trusted with, and if someone isn’t willing to respect the boundary once it’s been set, then it’s time to re-evaluate if you want them in your life.
I’m entirely with Woobie here. My undergrad was small, which means literally everyone on campus knew any sex related drama like instantly. When the girl down the hall cheated on her bf with her ROOMMATE’s bf, I knew this. I didn’t know either of the roommates OR their boyfriends. But I knew all the sordid details. It was THE topic of conversation for like 24 hours all over campus.
I went to a big state university. Sex drama wasn’t a thing. About the only time it got discussed was when one of the handegg players raped somebody. And yes, that happens at big state universities, handegg players getting arrested makes the news.
I remember playing “Never have I ever” with my housemates (a co-op of about 24 people), where you say something that you HAVE done, and everyone else who has done the same thing has to take a drink (or a bite of dessert). One person’s self-disclosure was to say “had a sexual experience with someone in this room.” Only me and my sexual partners took a drink. Nobody else. Nobody else got their nookie and their meals in the same place. *Facepalm.* Kind of wild to be “outed” before all one’s friends like that.
I wonder did that lead to any conversations about it later on? I feel like this is one of yhese issues where the line between what is strictly private business and what actually kind of indirectly concerns the collective is… complicated. And different housing collectives, (or groups of friends or political collectives etc) will adopt different attitudes. I mean, inter-roommate romance can get ugly, and then there’s fallout to deal with. And that’s when it may become crucial to be around people who know that “the personnel is political” and actually do live by that.
Nah, folks basically just new I tended to “make the rounds.” I was a regular horndog at that time and had a lot of fun. Folks knew that.
I enjoyed having so much fun, but there’s something to be said, too, for the loss of interest as one gets older. It’s actually quite a relief no longer to be bothered by such feelings. I feel a lot more stable and comfortable now, and it’s easier to get along with people, without those kinds of complications.
Hey Laura, situation is obviously different but how did you manage to like… go “hey I’m down to clown everyone?” And not have it be weird? Or was it something people picked up on over time? I’ll be frank I’d love to have a “casual hookup vibe” (I don’t think I’m ready to date) but the idea of even presenting that is nerve wracking.
Yoto, thanks for asking. Well, it’s different for everyone, and it’s much easier, I think, for female-appearing and female-presenting people. There’s more leeway. Which can be a bit of a curse, sometimes, because it’s easy to forget about courtesy and politeness and respect boundaries when one has that leeway given for being “too much”.
I wouldn’t really recommend being the way I was, because I was definitely “too much”. It was a long time ago, and I do regret the way I used to “put myself out there”. It wasn’t too smart, and it wasn’t too safe.
But, OK, Yoto, a few things helped me live in that “excited state” for a while:
-Being high on neurotransmitters — endorphins, dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin… — just about all the time. That can come from antidepressant medication, from exercise, from cacao & tea & bananas & chilis & maca & walnuts & dates, from binaural beats, from meditation or yoga, from working hard at something one enjoys and achieving recognition for it… Lots of ways to get one’s dopamine/serotonin on. People sometimes feel attraction to folks who feel relaxed, confident, and pleased with themselves.
-Wearing clothing that feels comfortable and makes one feel good, makes one feel attractive. Being confident with one’s own body and enjoying the texture of fabric on skin helped establish that vibe. And when even just WALKING can be a pleasurable act, people notice. (That “happy walk” took me a long time to un-learn, because it often attracted unwanted attention too.)
-Spending a lot of time enjoying the physical sensations of one’s own body helps establish that confidence, like “I’m a regular bomb and everyone would be extremely lucky to spend time with me.”
-I had a lot of fun inviting people to mutually enjoyable activities. A performance, a movie, a concert, a workshop, a meteor shower, a singalong, a cooking session… just DOING something fun with others really helped to break the ice. Because we could always focus on the activity and had no pressure to make conversation.
-I really enjoyed meeting people whom I respected intellectually, and just LISTENING to everything they had to say. That was easier in college, but it can happen anywhere. I would just find something about them that fascinated me (an instrument they played, a button they wore, a paper they wrote, a doodle, a machine they fixed, whatever). Then I would just ask them all kinds of questions about it. I’d just spend hours LISTENING to whatever they were passionate about. (Especially if it was science or math.) That was a big emotional bonding experience. It made them feel honored and valued and respected. And it was sincere. It was all true.
And then, mostly, just being open to opportunities to spend time one-on-one with folks in comfortable settings. It doesn’t have to lead to hanky panky. Sometimes even something as simple as just holding hands, or even just brushing one’s finger against another person’s finger, or just sitting side by side… all that can be shockingly intimate. It’s about enjoying one’s own company, and enjoying the other’s company, and letting the other know that their company is enjoyable.
…Hope that helps, Yoto? I know it’s all so much harder in times of COVID. Very hard to interpret body language and smell pheromones and flirt without regular in-person social interaction. …But communities of mutual interest, even online, can be places to find that “spark” of mutual respect and admiration that can sometimes lead to a special connection.
This is all good advice and not the kinda advice I feel like I’ve heard before so that makes me happy. Who knows how long it’ll take me to make these changes but I hope I’ll get there one day! I probably talk too much about how much I wanna date/hookup. It’s just been at the forefront of my mind lately
Well, I can’t speak for others, Yoto, but it’s fine by me. 🙂
I think with the erotica you write/draw and the way you enjoy talking about art and writing… you are on the right track to establishing a connection with someone. Having passion for what one does is attractive. 🙂
The information was eventually going to get back to Joyce, with or without Becky’s “permission”. By singling out exactly one person and then telling everyone else something, you surrender any reasonable expectation of that information being kept from that person for long. You cannot expect the entire world to fall in line and keep public information (which is what this is, thanks to Becky’s unstoppably loud mouth) private.
That’s a copout. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect that people aren’t going around telling others about your sex life without your okay, no matter how many or how few people are excluded from knowing.
“Minding your own business and not telling someone else’s secrets is bullshit because I don’t think it’s fair this one person doesn’t know” is a really shitty attitude to have. I fully agree it’s bullshit that Becky wanted everyone but Joyce to know, but it’s still her personal life. No one is entitled to know the details of anyone else’s sex life, regardless of how many people besides them know.
Who cares about who is or isn’t “entitled” to something? I certainly don’t. It’s not particularly relevant. If you’ve never been the only person excluded from completely innocuous information while everyone else in the planet gets to hear about it whether they asked or not, that’s fine, but there’s absolutely no point defending Becky’s ridiculous “secret”-keeping just because she did a fuck on somebody. Sarah didn’t do anything wrong.
I have, in fact, been the person excluded. In high school I had an entire group of friends who were “in the loop” (they seriously referred to it that way exclusively) about something and even made references to it in front of me, while still telling me that I wasn’t allowed to know because it wasn’t their secret to tell whenever I asked. It was horribly rude and it sucked, but that doesn’t mean any of them would have had any right to fill me in on someone else’s secrets.
And for the record, I’m not defending Becky’s secret keeping in particular; I’ve said multiple times I thought she was wrong to do so. I said as much when she was telling people and telling them not to tell others. It’s a bullshit way to treat a friend and no one deserves to be in the receiving end of that. But it still is not Sarah’s place to tell Joyce or anyone else. And that’s my point here. I don’t care if Sarah told Joyce, her own mother, or a space alien who has no idea what sex even is. Sarah has no right to tell anyone about Becky’s sex life.
You can’t say “No, this is a wrong, bad thing to do to somebody, no one deserves it”, then turn around and act like the thing in question deserves to be treated with any level of respect, reverence, or validity. I do not care even slightly that it’s Becky’s sex life. If she wants it kept secret, she needs to keep it fucking secret.
Of course I can say that it’s a shit thing to do to exclude someone while also saying that it’s nobody’s business to tell someone another person’s secret. These are not mutually exclusive things. It’s not Sarah’s right to tell, or anyone’s right but Becky’s, so it is no one’s fault but Becky’s if someone is intentionally excluded. I don’t know how you’re getting from “this is an unkind thing to do to a friend” to “therefore there is no expectation that Becky should be treated with respect when it comes to the privacy of her own life.”
And I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that this information is remotely fucking private, so I guess we’re doomed to circle the drain eternally.
Exactly. For information to be considered “private”, you have to actually keep it private. Becky did not do this. At all.
If I go on Tweeter and post “Don’t tell the other Dumbing of Age readers I like watching OneyPlays compilations”, there’s absolutely no reasonable expectation I could have that none of you would find out.
As I believe is famously attributed to Benjamin Franklin (a favorite quote of mine):
“Three may keep a secret – if two are dead.”
I always like to imagine this advice is basically “Yeah, if you really feel the need to tell some people your secret, you go ahead and do that…but then you’re just gonna hafta put ’em in the ground, with your Revolutionary War musket.”
True, but it’s not like Sarah was just wandering around gossiping about Becky’s sex life. Joyce asked her a question about why Becky was acting differently. All Sarah did was fail to lie to her. Would an “it’s not my place to say; you should ask Becky” have been more appropriate? Probably! Without seeing the conversation itself, I hesitate to say for sure. But being blunt with the truth is in-character for Sarah, and she was never actually told to keep it a secret from Joyce (that we know of).
Especially given that Joyce was upset about being infantilised and being treated like she can’t handle simple, basic information everybody else can handle, and that Becky was shouting it down the corridors so if it weren’t for the surprisingly good soundproofing in their Halls Joyce would definitely already know – I can see Sarah deciding that on balance “Becky and Dina had sex and she’s super-happy about it but also the religion thing is taking on the form of being too ashamed to tell you, but literally specifically JUST you, about it. I know you love her and am telling you this while trusting you not to use this to hurt her or resurrect the argument you guys had after Liz was here because I don’t think you deserve to be infantilised; and I do think you can handle this maturely and be happy that she and her girlfriend, who you know she is in a deeply committed relationship with and could well end up marrying, experienced an event that strengthened that relationship. Any questions or conversation done?” was probably the route least likely to lead to drama, short- and long-term.
Look, whether or not you should be able to expect people to keep a secret, you actually can’t expect them to keep a secret, especially when you’ve all but hired a skywriter.
Becky was the first one to make it less of a secret by loudly announcing to everything and everyone and actively getting people who actively didn’t care (Carla) involved
That’s not reasonable at all. Sharing a secret with one person and asking them to keep it in confidence is reasonable. But once you’ve told several people, it’s basically public information. Some of them are going to repeat it. This may not be ideal, but sensible people deal with the world as it is. Those who expect the world to conform to their ideals tend to suffer a whole lot of disappointment.
Yeah, but see, what you don’t get is that Joyce has to find out about it not from Becky shouting it everywhere, but in some other way that fits the script in Becky’s head, where Joyce confronts Becky about it and Becky gets to be Morally Right instead of a hypocrite.
:eyeroll:
See, I don’t even read that level of self-righteous malice from Becky. I only think she’s a fuckin’ bozo for expecting everyone on Earth to care about her dumbass “secret”. Like, if two people she screeched it at were talking about it and Joyce happened to overhear them, does that count as a violation? There has to be a baseline, and Becky absolutely set that line way too high for any degree of realistic expectation.
In fairness, elevated expectationsare a classic element of wacky hijinks. Of course, so is an inevitable backfiring of those expectations. Really, we’re pretty much on track.
I learned long ago that if you really want keep a secret secret, don’t tell it to anyone. Because sooner or later, someone is gonna reveal your secret, accidentally or otherwise.
Yo Andy, I think you’re forgetting that Dina YELLED at the top of her lungs “BECKY AND I TOTES FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER!” Anyone hearing that would be reasonable to assume it is no secret, if they were not explicitly told to not tell one specific person about the thing that is BEING SHOUTED.
I mean it’s not like Becky was doing much to keep it a secret. If you hear her bragging to literally everyone she interacts with about it you can probably assume it’s not a big deal to share.
Sarah didn’t just blurt it out, Joyce specifically asked her about it. I think it would have been worse for Sarah to lie and say she didn’t know what was going on.
It is shitty to reveal someone’s secrets, but there is a point where something stops being a secret and I think bragging to half the dorm about it goes past that point.
Which is Sarah’s greater obligation? To respect Becky’s ‘privacy’ (the scare quotes are completely merited), and not answer Joyce’s question…or to not support Becky’s lying to Joyce by avoiding, deflecting, or lying to Joyce when asked about a something that is common knowledge?
This high minded defense of the privacy of Becky’s sex life is frankly ridiculous. If Becky had kept it remotely private, you would have a solid case, but what you’re endorsing is Becky’s right to get people to lie to Joyce about it. Especially if Sarah has heard multiple people including Becky speaking and even shouting publicly about it.
There is no lie in saying”you need to ask the person whose secret this is.” Becky never asked anyone to lie to Joyce. She asked them not to tell Joyce. There’s a difference between secrets and lying.
And honestly, it’s not a defense of Becky’s sex life in particular. So long as everyone involved was a consenting adult, no one deserves to have the details of their sex life spread about. Every person has the right to keep their personal life private and the right to expect that their friends will not go about sharing information like that
I think “i’m not getting involved/ask her yourself” would’ve also been sarah’s style but i guess it might’ve been the quickest way she decided to solve it
i’m sure irl some others would’ve blurted it. though even if joyce would’ve reacted the same way regardless, i think still better coming from sarah versus carla whos technically not even in their friend group/clique
I’m curious which information falls into “other people can relay it” and which falls into “not okay for other people to relay.”
I doubt there would be a problem if Sarah had passed along that Becky was sick, or had gone out to eat at a certain restaurant. There’s a whole range of stuff that would be perfectly normal for someone to talk about another person doing.
This is a FANTASTIC point (and thank you, because knowing what’s not okay to talk about without being told is something I really struggle with). Your other point, about how it is burdensome to share news with nearly everyone and then asking them to go to the effort of pretending they don’t know, is also fantastic.
Also, yelling information to as many people as possible and then demanding they keep it secret is is just burdening those people, and they never asked for that. Becky’s not entitled to that from them.
This. Secrets are opt-in things. You START with “but you can’t tell X”, and you give people the chance to “is this bullshit? cos if it is, I want no part of it” before you tell them things.
YES, FUCKING COOL SARAH. I’m glad she’s filling the void that Mike used to by being the one who will not play these BS games and say what no one else will.
Hey Andy, please learn to tell the difference when people are praising a character for actions they would like to see happen in real life, and when people are praising a character for being an interesting character that adds an element they like to the story.
Like, you took someone saying “I’m glad the void left by The Asshole Who Pushes Plot Beats And Character Arcs Along is being filled by someone else who can stop the story from getting too slowed down by the rest of the cast’s tact and passivity”, and used that to accuse them of LACKING MORALS holy shit dude what the hell
Mike’s character has always been, regardless of universe, an unrepentant asshole whose gleeful lack of tact allows him to be the perfect author’s tool to move things along when Joyce and Walky’s puppy love is taking too long to flourish, or Amber needs to get her head out of her Dad’s shadow and kick this toy store’s/mutant honey bun’s ass, or Walky’s relationship with Dorothy needs to change gears. The Mike Drop was a great swerve because people, especially the kind of people who read DoA, have their patience for unrepentant meanness at an all-time low, even in a fantastical fictional setting – and his schtick worked better in Shortpacked! which is much more gag-a-day, and generally pettier than DoA. So removing the character makes sense while also being a big sea change for a chunk of the cast, and just this weird sad thing the rest of the cast tries not to think about, which sets up a really interesting tension. But killing Mike also removes an extremely valuable tool from Willis that has basically always been there.
Sarah was kidnapped and had every reason to fear for her life, and now she’s officially a single Mom of a girl one year younger than her. And she’s still trying to get that law degree. Sarah’s life sucks now, and it’s very much not her own life. Makes thematic sense to put that tact-agnostic BS-cutting plot power with no character to attach itself to into her.
Also, it’s weird how sympathetic this audience can be to every abuse victim in the cast but Mike. Really seems like a lot of people are unintentionally playing into that whole “model victim” mentality. He was abused by a teacher when trying to defend a friend, a friend who disregarded his words and abandoned him while this happened. And yet he still kept trying to make her and Ethan’s lives better. Yes, in a shitty puppet master controlling way, but a need for control is a common and understandable response to abuse. His only friends were too fucked up (due in no small part to an incident that wasn’t his *fault* but still happened because of him) and too young to push back at his growing mean, manipulative streak. He’s not going to trust mental health advice from authority figures now, especially any ones connected to the education or legal systems. And his parents are probably too busy having great sex to realize what’s happening – and also, he’s a teen. Isn’t this kind of thing supposed to happen with teens? Then he goes to college and is murdered in the first semester. Dies, coincidentally, FIGHTING THE SAME MAN WHO WAS THE DISPLACED TARGET OF HIS ANTI-AUTHORITY RAGE AFTER HIS ABUSE, which caused a series of events that led to Amber becoming Amazi-Girl which ultimately culminated in him being murdered by an abusive authority figure. And then, once again, for one last time, after defending Amber, Amber abandons him. And he dies, before he could even enter his 20s, before his brain could finish developing, before he ever had a chance to learn to trust again, change, and grow. Man, Mike rules as a character and is so incredibly well plotted.
Short packed Mike will always be best Mike. I’m really bummed we didn’t get more of him in this world. Yes he was a shitbag but he wasn’t a pure shitbag.
Shortpacked readers are more intimately familiar with the specifics of Mike’s assholishness and why and how they manifest. I think people familiar with the Walkyverse are gonna be inherently more willing to cut Mike some slack and give him the chance to develop, than people who are only familiar with the characters as shitty teens.
I was really looking forward to an arc with Amazigirl being conflicted about Mike underage drinking – but actually being nice for once. But also, I really like where Willis took the It’s Tragic Mike Backstory this time, and how the new trauma replacing dying in a secret war tied so well into Amber and Ethan’s arcs. Like, damn, we got two really solid but markedly different character arcs for the same “one-note joke” character. Great shit.
On a second glance, “clod” seems to have connotations of stupidity. I’ll retract that part, I honestly don’t think you’re stupid and it’s a little meaner than I was going for.
“If YoU’Re UsInG mIkE aS yOuR rUbRiC fOr GoOd BeHaViOr, YoUr TeLlInG uS fAr MoRe AbOuT yOuR lAcK oF mOrAlS tHaT i ThInK yOu InTeNdEd.”
Learn the difference between fiction and reality before you start shit-talking people’s moral fiber over a fictional fucking character. You’re coming across as an insufferable scold, and it’s not remotely warranted. The morality of real fucking people does not hinge on which fictional fucking characters they like. Grow up.
well, idk where sarah is now but i don’t know if becky would blow up at her
tho it feels like carla or anyone else rly could’ve tweeted like “These two girls from X wing keep shouting about having sex, ah youth” or so and eveyrone would’ve seen
And reading strips since then, Sarah was never told that Becky wanted this to be a secret from Joyce. When Joyce asked her, Sarah wouldn’t have a reason not to mention what she knew.
(Sarah saw Ruth order Carla not to tell Joyce, but that could’ve been because Carla was pointing and laughing about it. Ruth didn’t tell anyone else not to spill it.)
it does seem like ruth only forbid (forbade?) carla from telling her but i think dina likes sarah enough to forgive her this time. or be reasonably mad and get an apology at least
Ah, yeah, I remember this now. And I mean, if Carla knew, I could see Sarah not thinking it was a secret, exactly, given I don’t think Becky or Dina are close with her, like, ever.
Still imprudent, but less fucked up given those circumstances.
OTOH since this is Carla going out of her way to pass some salacious news to Joyce, it would be reasonable to assume that Joyce isn’t supposed to be told.
One thing that’s “off” is that Joyce’s ears are clearly drawn with sharp outlines of the inner folds, but are also colored the same brown as Joyce’s hair. She has hair-colored ears, and they’re too detailed to be just covered up by her hair.
And while I’m here I think I should inform anybody in David’s part of the continent: there is a 1980s space science satellite reentering the atmosphere in a few hours. https://aerospace.org/reentries/erbs-id-15354
The track takes it over the center of Canada and the US from the eastern edge of the Canadian Rockies down through the Mississippi Valley to the Gulf near the Florida/Alabama coast. So if it does reenter early (roughly 1:30 AM Eastern/12:30 Central US) there will be a fairly substantial light show in the skies that will definitely be seen all across the country.
Apropos of nothing, lesbian sleuths is actually a mystery subgenre. I know this because I did an Independent Study in grad school where I read a bunch of them and then wrote about it with my school’s resident mystery professor.
It turned out they were just a literature professor in disguise.
@Laura: Technically she was just a normal English professor who taught a Mystery class due to that genre being something she found personally interesting.
Typically both.
The Kate Delafield series (which was my main focus) featured a lesbian private detective who kept taking cases about murders that took place in various local lesbian bars or other lesbian hang-outs.
If you want to get broad, my favorite lesbian sleuth novel series is the Kushiel’s Legacy series. In that it’s a Fantasy/Romance series where the protagonist does a lot of spying and mystery solving during the course of her adventures.
The Kate Delafield series was… okay? Very dated, but then it also serves as a time capsule for a very specific version of the lesbian experience circa when the novels take place (which I no longer remember).
As to my paper – um, it’s not published online anywhere, so no. I probably have a copy somewhere, but it really isn’t that interesting unless you’ve read the Kate Delafield series.
I’ll give Becky a tenth of a point for being the one to start to tell Joyce, balanced against all the ones off for wanting and trying to make it a thing that she could be Righteously Defensive about.
(Back when this topic first came up, months ago, I went on record as wanting Joyce’s eventual reaction to be something that didn’t fit Becky’s script at all. This isn’t what I imagined, but I’ll definitely take it.)
Start by talking about Vietnamese noodle soup: Phở.
Then build up to saying the French word for “seal”: phoque.
Eventually that word will trip off the tongue easily.
If anyone’s interested, here are a couple of times Becky called Dorothy by her name in Joyce’s presence Enqueerinatin Defraud (I’m pretty sure this is the one that tips Joyce off)
From what I can tell, Sarah found out when Carla told Dorothy, thinking (well..assuming) that Dorothy was Joyce. At most, Sarah might have heard Ruth forbid Carla from telling Joyce, but afaik, she doesn’t know.
Oh man, in both of those, Joyce responds to Becky saying “Dorothy” with what could be a quizzical look. I didn’t even notice Becky was still calling Dotty Dorothy, woops
Yeah, it’s really well-handled imo, very visible in retrospect! I love seeing that sort of attention to details and little signs of how far ahead this has been planned.
In a world of needless intrigue and subterfuge and fake secrets and other such skullduggery, a direct request for information becomes the truest crime.
Yeeeah… Joyce being miffed at having to hear it from *Sarah* instead of her childhood best friend is understandable. Then again she is also tired and exhausted for a lot of reasons hence her only showing mild annoyance at most.
I honestly don’t get any annoyance from Joyce at all in this strip. She just had a big blow-up (justified) so I’m getting the emptied out and fucking done with people vibe but not over the becky/dina thing.
And now Joyce is gonna tell Becky about her potential autism diagnosis, and Becky will be like, well duh, and no one is gonna remember to tell Dina that everyone knows.
So the whole Joyce is gonna point and laugh at me theory Becks had was just insecurity she built up herself. Yeah this friendship has changed. They’ve lost some trust.
even better: IMO, she wanted to be laughed at, or scolded, so that she could define herself by standing up for herself (and Dina) against that. Joyce not doing any of that is taking all of the wind out of her sails.
(it also means that all of her lingering doubts and guilt about what she did still have her own voice/face attached, not someone else’s. makes them a lot harder to push back on.)
I think she wanted to be laughed at and scolded, not so she could define herself by standing up for herself, but because she feels like she deserves to be laughed at and scolded.
Think of it this way, both of her parents are dead. As far as we know, she has no other family. Joyce is the closest thing to her parents she has, in that Joyce knew her parents, and they were raised in the same community. The same God Fearing, “you’re going to Hell for even one small mistake” community. Try as she might to move past it, I think Becky is expecting to be punished for having sex with Dina, whether that comes from her previously besty-in-Christ, or from the Big Man himself.
As someone who’s lost a parent, it is a strange feeling when you realize that you can kinda… do whatever you want now. My dad is still alive, but he’s so chill that unless I did something very uncharacteristic (like snorting coke) he’d still love me and accept my decisions. But now that my mom is gone, that firm rock of parental guidance is gone. And in the absence is unfamiliarity, and fear, and freedom. I think that’s a space Becky’s navigating in while also feeling some internal shame for something she honestly enjoyed (which, in typical fundy Christian fashion, means she did something extra bad if she enjoyed it!!)
that seems like a pretty harsh read of Becky, and in general I wouldn’t take the route of ‘[someone] actually wanted to be treated badly, just so they could define themselves by standing up against it” in general.
I’m not sure about the self-definition aspect, but perhaps there’s a level to which Becky wanted Joyce to flip out because Joyce not flipping out would be the ultimate sign that she’s no longer the Joyce who was Becky’s “bestie in Christ” and is now a completely different Joyce who’s going to leave Becky behind like she always feared. It’s true that the web of neurotic fundie entanglement has becky’s brain in knots, but it’s also important to acknowledge the hecka abandonment issues she has from losing both (yes, I’m counting her dad, too) her parents within a relatively short span of time.
Also agree (re: bestie in Christ). Re: Becky’s dad- although she seems to have never had a great relationship with him, I’m sure she never expected him to be involved in kidnapping and (attempted) murders. She only found out how bad he was shortly before he died. I think she’d be mourning him (and definitely feeling abandoned) even if he was alive.
Hello, it is time for me to quote BoJack Horseman re: parent death with a parent you don’t have a good relationship with:
“Suddenly, you realize you’ll never have the good relationship you wanted, and as long as they were alive, even though you’d never admit it, part of you, the stupidest goddamn part of you, was still holding on to that chance. And you didn’t even realize it until that chance went away.”
Joyce is tired of being a teenage drama character and pushed the plot aside from all the insulting and discussing drama with other friends and reconciling at the end.
Everyone is focusing on Joyce finding out about Becky & Dina, but what about Joyce just blurting out she knows there’s no God? Wasn’t she keeping being atheist from Becky? Becky doesn’t seem to have a reaction, so maybe I forgot that she found that out already? But wasn’t that the whole reason Becky was worried about Joyce knowing in the first place?
Maybe this will lead into a conversation about how not including your childhood bestie in an Important Life Update because you’re scared of how they’ll react is reasonable, and how regretting the way they did find out is also reasonable?
Such as when your bestie finds out from a third party that you’ve gone against all the teachings of your religion by having sex. Or when your bestie finds out from overhearing what you THOUGHT was a private vent that you’ve gone against all the teachings of your former religion by becoming an atheist. I just think it could be an interesting parallel.
That’s what I’m thinking. Hoping, at least. I imagine she’ll go right back to her goofy-happy act as soon as the conversation wraps up, but I think there’s decent odds that we get some down-to-earth communication in the near future.
I’m not even slightly mad at Sarah, if that helps. She’s the only one who did the right thing, by trampling all over Becky’s ridiculous “secret” instead of helping to “keep” it.
I also agree, it’s much better for them to talk about these things.
Yeah I’m kind of surprised how upset some folks are at Sarah. As far as we know, she was never actually asked to keep the news from Joyce? And I dunno about you, but… I’d probably have done the same without really thinking about it. If I don’t know something is meant to be a secret, I assume it isn’t one and will respond in conversation accordingly; I tend to assume secrets are being KEPT secret and I forget that people often talk about them oddly freely anyway. I don’t know if that’s the case for Sarah, but…point is, I really don’t get why everyone is up in arms as if Sarah is intentionally being nasty about someone else’s news. As far as I can tell, all she did was answer a question with her usual bluntness.
I’m with you, I hope this conversation goes well! I suspect it’s going to clear the air on a few different points, if so.
I mean, Sarah learned about Becky and Dina because *Carla* yelled the news at her and Dorothy. I think it’s safe to assume that any information Carla knows won’t be a secret for long.
someone’s gotta be the bad guy/rip the bandage off. If she really didn’t subconsciously, she probably wouldn’t have been that vocal/braggy about it, but they are technically still teens, other than ruth’s threats, the fastest way for someone to know something is to tell people you don’t want X to happen/repeated
IMO she absolutely did, but in a particular context.
These kids are (both) so messed up. Mostly thanks to their parents and community, but also other things that have happened to them.
i can’t imagine it being disappointing even w/o reading the slipshine but i wonder what the potential drama/strain on the relationship would’ve been if it was a bad first time for becky
The fortunate thing is that it’s both of their first experiences so they can go through this journey together.
Personally I’m at the point where I just wanna have my first time to get it over with. I’m certain I’ll be bad at it but the sooner I go for it the sooner I’ll learn to be better at it.
You didn’t ask, but here I am anyway with my Sex Tips (they’re not actually about, like, technique or anything):
1. Communicate. Communicate before so you both go in with clear expectations, communicate during to check in with the other person and let them know how you’re doing, communicate after as you get back to an equilibrium.
2. You’re probably going to be nervous; that’s fine. In addition to the above, don’t be afraid to laugh. That’s not, like, necessary in the way communicating is, but it can relieve a lot of tension and just make you feel more comfortable, and honestly can be a pretty natural reaction. Don’t try to make yourself laugh, but you don’t have to fight it either.
3. Send a message (or however you usually talk to the person) after. Like, even (especially?) if it’s just a hook up where you’re planning never to see the other person again, send something along a little bit after the fact; this goes along with 1, but it’s also a little separate, sort of a way to approach closure of the experience.
4. If you’re hosting, offer the person water afterward. It’s just nice.
This isn’t universal, but there’s more to sex than just sex, you know? This part is definitely YMMV, but– I wouldn’t describe someone who did these things as “bad at it.”
well, other than her internalizing/still considering herself a ‘hussy’ for simply taking the pills as opposed to the benefit of her actually being able to have sex (But even then i would think the initial reason to stop/make the pain less intense as the main purpose would be her main focus/lots of ppl probably want to stop their periods but not necessarily have sex (ironically i’ve heard for some people it *decreases* libido) but i don’t have religious trauma XP)
Joyce wasn’t kidding when she blew up. Jennifer took her to the doctor for a cut-and-dry “These are to help with your brutal periods” visit and everyone else has said “So, now you’re gonna start fucking, right?” Sarah was actually the one to set off the confrontation with Roz by making the pills about Joyce’s “reproductive freedom.”
B: Are you a hussy? Dunno, what do you think that means?
J: …I really don’t actually know. I was told it’s bad.
B: Maybe we should do something rad and find out for ourselves, ‘stead of lettin’ the voices in your head tell ya. Gotta dictionary?
Are we still doing random-ass questions to help alleviate tension? Fuck it, I got one. What’s a common item you’ve never purchased? Window cleaner, ground beef, condoms, chocolate, literally anything that happens to be very common where you live is free game.
Personally, I’ve never bought briefs (or tighty-whiteys if we’re using the scientific name) or mushrooms. No reason at all to keep them in the house, so I just don’t buy ’em.
ngl, not that i go outta my way looking for it, i wouldn’t be surprised if all the “amazon doesn’t allow employees proper bathroom breaks” to snowball into articles like “more adult diapers are being sold to 10 hour/night time shift workers”
Haha, interesting question.
Do items i’ve never bought but have shoplifted count? =P
Pine nuts. Fucking love these things, either just to snack on or make pesto, but they are so expensive, and tend to come in conveniently pocket sized packets, i dont think i’ve ever paid for them.
Oh man, you just woke up so many sleeping memories I had of shoplifting. I only ever did it with petty shit like snacks or fidget toys, but I knew people who’d yoink art supplies and collectibles.
Now and then I get the urge to shoplift something, but I don’t (in the present). Some of my friends do, and I don’t, like, disagree with it, but I do get nervous going into stores with them.
When I was younger I shoplifted something I really shouldn’t have, definitely wouldn’t with the understanding of the world I have now, and the memory of that definitely helps me push down the urge.
I’ve always found shoplifting stories to be really interesting =) it can be a very personal subject, and sometimes elicit really intense emotions.
I did it a lot at one time, i don’t know, i was in a circle where a lot of us did it constantly, there was even an element of bragging. now i’ve gotten nervous, i’ve lost my nerve somehow. But i still do sometimes, kind of out of necessity. Or, one might argue, out of laziness. I could work more if i wanted, but um, i don’t want. 🤷♀️
But also i think it’s kind of fucked to shoplift when you’re with someone who doesn’t feel comfortable with it. I only do it if i’m alone or with people who are cool with it.
baking soda. well, i know we need some for the fridge but i’m not the one that buys them (tho if anything we prolly should change it out more often no matter how advanced ‘smart’ fridges get [not that i have one in particular but i’m sure my dad would if we were upper class rich lol])
…Maybe a fire alarm detector, i mean idk if we ever inspected the old one but we prolly need those too (prolly should think of less concerning/”omg you should address that issue soon” examples lol
High heels? I like fashion/cute clothes but i don’t rly care about shoes much in comparison, as long as they’re comfy/sturdy, cuteness might be a ‘bonus ‘but i don’t go outta my way to find cute shoes, tho luckily i don’t find most sneakers/walking shoes especially ‘ugly’ anyways)
Common thing here, putting an open box of baking soda in the fridge is supposed to help cut down on the fridge smells. Ther are even baking sodas specially marketed for that purpose.
Ooh, ok. Makes sense i guess, though it’s true i’ve never heard it done over here haha. I guess my (our??) way of taking care of potential smells is just to have everything in airtight containers or under plastic film.
I don’t understand the baking soda fridge thing, either. Maybe it’s for things that don’t seal well? Or the unsealed produce that just goes in the fridge as-is? Or the coating of residue that builds up on the shelves and door over time from all the random little drips?
Just clean your refrigerators, people. “The gross thing hiding in the back of the fridge” is a stupid sitcom trope.
You’re right, and I agree with you that the solution to funky smells is to just clean…
But I have adhd and therefore have the object permanence of a literal infant. I just found cheese in my fridge that expired in November because I forgot we had it and never had a craving for it. Also I didn’t realize it had been in there for 4 months because I have no concept of time. So.
No but seriously, cleaning the fridge is really hard when you already forget to do things if there’s a wall or container between you and the needed chore. In the other room, in a self-contained box? Nah, that’s not getting done until I get a wild hair up my ass while I’m already looking for coffee creamer or something.
Potentially TMI, but we were low on dishes for our Christmas cooking and wound up having to purge and scour the containers holding our Thanksgiving leftovers. When I say “assault on the senses”, I’m being polite about it.
I don’t think it has to be one or the other? Like, sure, clean your fridge, but you can still use baking soda to help out. Like, yeah, you should shower regularly, doesn’t make deodorant pointless.
I keep baking soda in the fridge to handle generic cross-scentage. Like, if I’ve got produce in the fridge I don’t want it to pick up the smell from a plate of chicken that I set in the fridge to cool before I put it in a sealed container.
I’ve got a bad smell in my fridge right now and as far as I can determine, after SEVERAL checks, I’ve tossed everything that could possibly be making it. It’s just a lingering thing at the moment ’cause I can’t actually open it and let it air out without also using/tossing everything ELSE that’s currently in it. (Don’t think I’ve not been tempted.) So, it’s (another box of) baking soda for me, on my next shopping trip.
Unfortunately some containers that claim to be airtight aren’t. Or sometimes they’re not actually closed all the way. Stuff happens. I’m glad this isn’t a problem for you though!
Sure, sure. I’d simply never heard of the baking soda trick before. I might give it a try?? (Otoh i live alone, i’m a vegetarian and i don’t like smelly cheese. So i’ve never really had an issue either way)
Thaaaat explains why my mom kept baking soda in the fridge when I was a kid. But she kept it in a little bowl. I thought it was sugar and tried a bit. I was horribly deceived.
Not sure if I’ve bought sports gear, either. I vaguely recall having some tennis rackets somewhere, but we moved so far away from the nearest tennis court that it’s not practical or worth keeping them.
We also use paper towels most of the time. Table napkins are fine and all, but they’re stupidly expensive by comparison and the ones that aren’t, it takes like 7 of them to get as much cleaned as a half-sized paper towel anyway. I think my girlfriend has bought maybe 5 little packs of napkins, always the themed holiday ones, and only in preparation for gatherings with our friends.
Despite spending 5 years of my life cutting up fruits and veggies, I’ve never once bought myself kiwi, watermelon, cantaloupe, or honeydew. I’ve also never eaten a kiwi, now that I’m thinking about it.
Around here, at least, melons and kiwis are pretty expensive most of the time. And if you can get a melon, it’s pretty much relegated to watermelon or cantaloupe, because honeydew scares the local hillbillies.
Oh gods, I’ve been using the same flat-screen TV since like 2009 or something. We didn’t understand what the HDMI ports were for until a buddy brought over his Xbox 360 and had a fit about us still using the red/yellow/white plugs.
Same! I bought a CRT for $10 for my bedroom when I was a teenager from a friend’s moving sale, and since then they’ve all been hand-me-downs (current one is a very good 55″ 3D TV from a couple years ago, because my in-laws got even better TVs free from their cable company).
Around here, the only mushrooms in my price range are those hateful beige button ones that every pizza place uses. They’re universally disgusting, no matter how well someone thinks they can cook them. The allegedly “good” ones are like $10 for one mushroom that’s like 3-4 inches wide, tops. I’m not spending the price of a decent restaurant meal for a single piece of fungus I may or may not even like, that’s ridiculous.
Mushroom propagandists must think poor people don’t exist, or something.
I think it’s fine since it’s this far down on the page, but Willis did once ask to not do these threads because they pushed down relevant comments.
That said: I haven’t bought real milk in probably 5+ years (and I do eat dairy), and I’ve absolutely never bought a vehicle (I’ve been given hand-me-down bicycles, but that’s it)
Considering that Becky (and sometimes Dina) went around telling pretty much everyone except Joyce that they had sex, often yelling it, I’m kinda surprised it took Joyce as long as it did to find out.
Prepare for the part where Joyce says Becky’s sex doesn’t count for stupid reasons that I don’t need to spell out. I want her to be better, but it’s certainly a possibility here.
Alt-text: Except for when Becky’s playing Lesbian Love Sleuth, in which case it modifies both, and then modifies “Sleuth” about twenty extra times for good measure.
Some people have non-religious reasons to not swear, but I get Joyce is still feeling things out for herself.
Glad Becky wanted to tell her. Not cool of Sarah to tell Joyce, but given she found out from Carla, someone that isn’t exactly in the circle, maybe she just didn’t think it was a secret.
In any case, glad Joyce doesn’t seem judgmental. Cute that she recognized Becky’s change in addressing Dorothy. Even with some of their tensions, it’s sweet she’s still in-tune with Becky’s quirks.
I do hope Joyce can talk out her neurodivergence with Becky, but I get if now isn’t exactly the time. Still, cards on the table would be good.
Obviously Becky’s “everyone can (and must) know except for Joyce” thing was unnecessary and doomed to fail, but I also think this strip shows some of where her worry was coming from (not in a “this was previously unknown way” but in a “this is *right there*” way). Joyce judges herself so harshly for something that *could* be related to sex, and Becky was afraid of those same judgments being directed at her. She was dealing with some internalized sense of shame herself and was scared of having that mirrored back her by someone she loves. Now, we’re the assumptions there fair to Joyce? No, obviously,, but fear and shame often don’t leave us the best judge of how others will respond.
As for Sarah telling Joyce… well, I’m not going to condemn Sarah for it, though I also don’t think it was the best move. I think some people want to come up with a “this is always okay” or “this is never okay” rule, when I think it’s very context dependent. In this context, not that big of a deal, though not ideal.
Of course, different situations are different—that’s the point of the above– but if someone were like, “Hey, I’m queer! I want to share this with people, but I don’t want x to know.” I wonder if responses about just telling x would differ.
For what it’s worth, Joyce knew something was up more than just Becky calling Dorothy Dorothy. And she possibly asked in a way that made “I dunno” not a reasonable answer. Not that Sarah would be inclined to lie anyways. https://www.dumbingofage.com/defraud
I really do wish we could collectively stop the whole “[Character] made a suboptimal decision and is now Bad”, and the accompanying “You acknowledged the suboptimal nature of [Character]’s actions, therefore you are condemning [character] as a Villain”.
🙁 Poor Joyce; the whole ‘medicine to control your painful period’ = hussy pills situation really sucks. I had intensely bad periods but wasn’t ‘allowed’ to go on the pill until college because if my dad found out I was taking them he’d lose his mind and probably disown me. Its a screwed up situation.
I’m not aware of a non-contraceptive method that would control or halt a painful period (other than pain relief which doesn’t really do either so much as just help to keep you moving). I would be really interested in knowing what you were offered.
My mom had some non-birth control prescription for period pain, I think it was just some combination of pain relief plus anti inflammatory plus maybe some kind of emmenagog or something to prevent huge clots from forming. I know it wasn’t BC because she only took it occasionally and once or twice gave me one.
I can appreciate Joyce’s panel one frustration. Dropping her first f-bomb in a straight up, unabridged “F*ck you, Roz” would have left all the girlies quaking
Yeah, ironically for an individual with very little faith in authority and an cynical view towards the equal dispensation of justice, Sarah is quite the snitch.
THEY WERE SCREAMING ABOUT HOW THEY TOTES FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER how is that snitching? Also, Joyce is not an authority figure. Actually, besides her former roommate (who was endangering Sarah’s education, if not more), when has Sarah ever snitched to an authority figure? Because if it’s not to an authority figure, that’s not snitching, that’s just good ol-fashioned gossip. And it’s not even really gossip if the people in question ARE YELLING THE GOSSIP IN THE HALLS
It’s not her secret to tell though. The motherly answer would be something like “You should ask her yourself”. It allows Becky the opportunity to decide if she does wanna talk about it or deflect without Sarah having to “lie”
So? Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people might know I draw porn. You know who might not know? My mom. So maybe don’t bring it up randomly over dinner.
I’m not blaming Sarah, i don’t think she knew it wasn’t meant to be a secret. But I’m not gonna just pretend she’s in the right for blowing the whistle on something someone considered a secret.
I only said motherly since Booster Shot said “If Sarah has to be a mom without tax benefits she’s only momming one kid”. It is a direct response to the metaphor they used.
For that analogy to be comparable to Becky you would have to be shouting about it in your mothers neighborhood and telling everyone in your immediate family except your mom…in which case you shouldn’t be surprised if she finds out before or during dinner.
If I tell my aunties and extended family a secret I’d like them to keep from my mom and ask them not to tell her, then if one of them tells her, that’s a betrayal of my trust. Now if they don’t KNOW I wanted to keep it a secret, that’s different. Which is probably the scenario here. But if one of them decides “naw, I’m gonna let my sister know despite her son’s wishes” then yeah she’s suddenly gonna be my least favorite Auntie.
The point I’m making is that telling a large number of people in your immediate social circle and all your neighbors a secret that you want kept from one person in the same circle and area isn’t a realistic expectation unless said person is a complete recluse. Becky wasn’t just telling peope she trusted, she was telling all of the neighborhood dormitory, people she has no reason to trust to keep her ‘not so secret’ secrets.
And that point is irrelevent to my point. Because Sarah told Joyce. The question was “if Sarah knew Becky didn’t want Joyce to know and told her anyway, that is fucked up”. That’s what I was responding to.
I’m happy that Becky has decided to confide in Joyce and I’m happy that Joyce already knew everything, but had said nothing waiting for her to speak. Hopefully this will be a deep discussion and they could talk about their fears.
Something that I think is lost in all the “is Sarah right or wrong” discourse is the first two panels, Becky respecting Joyce’s boundaries by asking if she can come in after the blowup earlier and Joyce apologizing for a potentially hurtful remark towards Becky
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“Also dorms have thin walls.”
Also you butt dialed me.
Also also you talk in your sleep.
…no wait, that one’s me.
(Whether that applies only to me, the commenter, or to Joyce or Becky as well, is up to you for fun ^^)
Which is shameless. Becky’s in a committed relationship. I know she used to have a crush on Joyce but that doesn’t mean she should booty call her. 🙂
Actually they don’t! Jennifer said so. Really wish it wasn’t true where I stay as well.
As much as I dissaprove of the whole “everyone but Joyce can and should know” thing, NOT FUCKING COOL SARAH.
Yeah, as much as Sarah seems like the only one with any sense sometimes, we’re occasionally reminded that the stripes title applies to her too.
I’m not sure cold spite is dumb.
Sarah’s been pretty unpleasant since the timeskip.
It is kind of her brand
Her brand was being grumpy and anti-social. Post-timeskip she’s been more mean and nasty.
She was always kinda mean
nah, I agree with drs: post time skip she took a new level in meanness
She was kidnapped and easily could have died. She is out of fucks to give.
I don’t remember – while a couple of people were asked (well, told) not to tell Joyce, was Sarah?
I don’t think Becky every asked Sarah not to tell Joyce.
I get the feeling that Becky wanted everyone to know, but Joyce not to know, so no one should tell Joyce, but also if someone did let it slip to Joyce that would actually be ok because then Becky would get out of the difficult job of eventually telling Joyce.
In the back of her consciousness, Becky designed this plan to fail.
Did Sarah know Becky didn’t want Joyce told?
Does it matter? People’s sex lives are their own business. They get to choose who they do and don’t tell; telling someone else without their permission is out of line.
If she wasnt told not to tell joyce, with how Becky was literally going around yelling it at people, she wouldn’t have known it wasnt supposed to be public at that point. They were telling EVERYBODY but Joyce after all.
This as well. I don’t think Sarah was ever told not to tell anyone.
She was there when Ruth told Carla not to tell Joyce at least
I’m missing the part where that becomes Sarah’s problem.
Gravatar checks out.
Incredibly based
Taffy this is magnificent ilu
I’m missing the part where I made that claim?
It’s possible that Sarah actually told Joyce before the confrontation with Carla, and Sarah didn’t put forward that reveal. “don’t worry about Carla telling her, i already did”.
Also, there’s a huge difference between actively spreading gossip and answering a question when directly asked. I have been asked by people not to share certain information and I always respond with “I won’t volunteer it, but if I’m directly asked I won’t lie”. Now, sometimes this means when asked I’ll say “I was asked not to talk about that, you need to ask so and so if you wanna know” because I am all about respecting people’s secrets, and I’ve complained about Smallville’s drama enough times to know that “yes I’m keeping a secret, but it’s not my secret to share so deal with it” is often a very valid response.
Other times, I know that responding like that will only serve to cause more problems in the long run and will just explain the situation because I refuse to participate in pointless drama. I imagine Sarah saw this as such a case, and frankly I agree.
This seems like a good strategy. I shall copy it.
(…not that I talk to people, but, you know…)
Shit, /I’m/ copying this, there’ve been times in my life where that would have been a handy response to have in my lexicon when I’ve been put on the spot.
♫ Somebody SAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEE
From all this drama bullshit
Just SAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEE ♫
We do enjoy some Remy Zero from time to time.
Yeah, so many of the conflicts involving Chloe could have been handled using some carefully worded honesty. Before she learned Clark’s secret “yes, I’m keeping a secret, it’s nothing personal but I want to minimize the number of people who know. Pete only knows because he found out under extreme circumstances. I do trust you, but please respect my boundaries.” would likely have gotten her to calm down and be patient like 3 seasons sooner than she did.
When Jimmy was suspicious of her keeping secrets for Clark, instead of denying there were secrets she should have been like “yes I’m keeping secrets, because my friend chose to trust me with them, and while I love you I can’t betray his trust.”
It’s not hard to both avoid lying to people AND still keep secrets you’ve been trusted with, and if someone isn’t willing to respect the boundary once it’s been set, then it’s time to re-evaluate if you want them in your life.
Agreed – not informing someone of things that aren’t their business? Fine. Actively LYING to them about same? I probably wouldn’t, either.
Ideally, sure.
In real life, it’s a very popular subject for discussion.
I’m entirely with Woobie here. My undergrad was small, which means literally everyone on campus knew any sex related drama like instantly. When the girl down the hall cheated on her bf with her ROOMMATE’s bf, I knew this. I didn’t know either of the roommates OR their boyfriends. But I knew all the sordid details. It was THE topic of conversation for like 24 hours all over campus.
I went to a big state university. Sex drama wasn’t a thing. About the only time it got discussed was when one of the handegg players raped somebody. And yes, that happens at big state universities, handegg players getting arrested makes the news.
I don’t think anyone was under the impression that sexual assault didn’t happen at big state universities, tbh.
Gossip in a small, insular community is quite possibly the one thing in the universe that spreads faster than light
It is, but that doesn’t make it right.
I remember playing “Never have I ever” with my housemates (a co-op of about 24 people), where you say something that you HAVE done, and everyone else who has done the same thing has to take a drink (or a bite of dessert). One person’s self-disclosure was to say “had a sexual experience with someone in this room.” Only me and my sexual partners took a drink. Nobody else. Nobody else got their nookie and their meals in the same place. *Facepalm.* Kind of wild to be “outed” before all one’s friends like that.
Hahahaha
I imagine you taking your shot confidently thinking, “oh, half of us are gonna drink to this, for sure” and then looking around like “…. oh.”
I wonder did that lead to any conversations about it later on? I feel like this is one of yhese issues where the line between what is strictly private business and what actually kind of indirectly concerns the collective is… complicated. And different housing collectives, (or groups of friends or political collectives etc) will adopt different attitudes. I mean, inter-roommate romance can get ugly, and then there’s fallout to deal with. And that’s when it may become crucial to be around people who know that “the personnel is political” and actually do live by that.
Lol. The personal* is political, not the personnel
Well, the personnel is political, too, TBF!
Nah, folks basically just new I tended to “make the rounds.” I was a regular horndog at that time and had a lot of fun. Folks knew that.
I enjoyed having so much fun, but there’s something to be said, too, for the loss of interest as one gets older. It’s actually quite a relief no longer to be bothered by such feelings. I feel a lot more stable and comfortable now, and it’s easier to get along with people, without those kinds of complications.
*Sorry if this is TMI!*
Hmm… “horndog” apparently has negative connotations.
“Hornball”? “Big ol’ ball o’ hormones”? Not sure what the correct term is.
I don’t see a problem with “horndog”, unless the #discourse has shifted again while I wasn’t looking.
Hey Laura, situation is obviously different but how did you manage to like… go “hey I’m down to clown everyone?” And not have it be weird? Or was it something people picked up on over time? I’ll be frank I’d love to have a “casual hookup vibe” (I don’t think I’m ready to date) but the idea of even presenting that is nerve wracking.
Cool, thanks Taffy.
Yoto, thanks for asking. Well, it’s different for everyone, and it’s much easier, I think, for female-appearing and female-presenting people. There’s more leeway. Which can be a bit of a curse, sometimes, because it’s easy to forget about courtesy and politeness and respect boundaries when one has that leeway given for being “too much”.
I wouldn’t really recommend being the way I was, because I was definitely “too much”. It was a long time ago, and I do regret the way I used to “put myself out there”. It wasn’t too smart, and it wasn’t too safe.
But, OK, Yoto, a few things helped me live in that “excited state” for a while:
-Being high on neurotransmitters — endorphins, dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin… — just about all the time. That can come from antidepressant medication, from exercise, from cacao & tea & bananas & chilis & maca & walnuts & dates, from binaural beats, from meditation or yoga, from working hard at something one enjoys and achieving recognition for it… Lots of ways to get one’s dopamine/serotonin on. People sometimes feel attraction to folks who feel relaxed, confident, and pleased with themselves.
-Wearing clothing that feels comfortable and makes one feel good, makes one feel attractive. Being confident with one’s own body and enjoying the texture of fabric on skin helped establish that vibe. And when even just WALKING can be a pleasurable act, people notice. (That “happy walk” took me a long time to un-learn, because it often attracted unwanted attention too.)
-Spending a lot of time enjoying the physical sensations of one’s own body helps establish that confidence, like “I’m a regular bomb and everyone would be extremely lucky to spend time with me.”
-I had a lot of fun inviting people to mutually enjoyable activities. A performance, a movie, a concert, a workshop, a meteor shower, a singalong, a cooking session… just DOING something fun with others really helped to break the ice. Because we could always focus on the activity and had no pressure to make conversation.
-I really enjoyed meeting people whom I respected intellectually, and just LISTENING to everything they had to say. That was easier in college, but it can happen anywhere. I would just find something about them that fascinated me (an instrument they played, a button they wore, a paper they wrote, a doodle, a machine they fixed, whatever). Then I would just ask them all kinds of questions about it. I’d just spend hours LISTENING to whatever they were passionate about. (Especially if it was science or math.) That was a big emotional bonding experience. It made them feel honored and valued and respected. And it was sincere. It was all true.
And then, mostly, just being open to opportunities to spend time one-on-one with folks in comfortable settings. It doesn’t have to lead to hanky panky. Sometimes even something as simple as just holding hands, or even just brushing one’s finger against another person’s finger, or just sitting side by side… all that can be shockingly intimate. It’s about enjoying one’s own company, and enjoying the other’s company, and letting the other know that their company is enjoyable.
…Hope that helps, Yoto? I know it’s all so much harder in times of COVID. Very hard to interpret body language and smell pheromones and flirt without regular in-person social interaction. …But communities of mutual interest, even online, can be places to find that “spark” of mutual respect and admiration that can sometimes lead to a special connection.
Good luck!
This is all good advice and not the kinda advice I feel like I’ve heard before so that makes me happy. Who knows how long it’ll take me to make these changes but I hope I’ll get there one day!
I probably talk too much about how much I wanna date/hookup. It’s just been at the forefront of my mind latelyWell, I can’t speak for others, Yoto, but it’s fine by me. 🙂
I think with the erotica you write/draw and the way you enjoy talking about art and writing… you are on the right track to establishing a connection with someone. Having passion for what one does is attractive. 🙂
The information was eventually going to get back to Joyce, with or without Becky’s “permission”. By singling out exactly one person and then telling everyone else something, you surrender any reasonable expectation of that information being kept from that person for long. You cannot expect the entire world to fall in line and keep public information (which is what this is, thanks to Becky’s unstoppably loud mouth) private.
That’s a copout. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect that people aren’t going around telling others about your sex life without your okay, no matter how many or how few people are excluded from knowing.
No. That level of exclusion is bullshit, simple as. It doesn’t become okay just because sex is involved. Fuck that.
“Minding your own business and not telling someone else’s secrets is bullshit because I don’t think it’s fair this one person doesn’t know” is a really shitty attitude to have. I fully agree it’s bullshit that Becky wanted everyone but Joyce to know, but it’s still her personal life. No one is entitled to know the details of anyone else’s sex life, regardless of how many people besides them know.
Who cares about who is or isn’t “entitled” to something? I certainly don’t. It’s not particularly relevant. If you’ve never been the only person excluded from completely innocuous information while everyone else in the planet gets to hear about it whether they asked or not, that’s fine, but there’s absolutely no point defending Becky’s ridiculous “secret”-keeping just because she did a fuck on somebody. Sarah didn’t do anything wrong.
I have, in fact, been the person excluded. In high school I had an entire group of friends who were “in the loop” (they seriously referred to it that way exclusively) about something and even made references to it in front of me, while still telling me that I wasn’t allowed to know because it wasn’t their secret to tell whenever I asked. It was horribly rude and it sucked, but that doesn’t mean any of them would have had any right to fill me in on someone else’s secrets.
And for the record, I’m not defending Becky’s secret keeping in particular; I’ve said multiple times I thought she was wrong to do so. I said as much when she was telling people and telling them not to tell others. It’s a bullshit way to treat a friend and no one deserves to be in the receiving end of that. But it still is not Sarah’s place to tell Joyce or anyone else. And that’s my point here. I don’t care if Sarah told Joyce, her own mother, or a space alien who has no idea what sex even is. Sarah has no right to tell anyone about Becky’s sex life.
You can’t say “No, this is a wrong, bad thing to do to somebody, no one deserves it”, then turn around and act like the thing in question deserves to be treated with any level of respect, reverence, or validity. I do not care even slightly that it’s Becky’s sex life. If she wants it kept secret, she needs to keep it fucking secret.
The problem is that she was telling so many people it’s reasonable for any one of those people to assume it’s not a secret in the first place
Of course I can say that it’s a shit thing to do to exclude someone while also saying that it’s nobody’s business to tell someone another person’s secret. These are not mutually exclusive things. It’s not Sarah’s right to tell, or anyone’s right but Becky’s, so it is no one’s fault but Becky’s if someone is intentionally excluded. I don’t know how you’re getting from “this is an unkind thing to do to a friend” to “therefore there is no expectation that Becky should be treated with respect when it comes to the privacy of her own life.”
And I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that this information is remotely fucking private, so I guess we’re doomed to circle the drain eternally.
Nope. You can’t yell out a fact to everyone who’ll stand still long enough, then be all “But don’t tell X.”
If you want to keep something a secret, not telling everyone you know, with one exception, should be step one.
Exactly. For information to be considered “private”, you have to actually keep it private. Becky did not do this. At all.
If I go on Tweeter and post “Don’t tell the other Dumbing of Age readers I like watching OneyPlays compilations”, there’s absolutely no reasonable expectation I could have that none of you would find out.
Rule #4: Best way to keep a secret: Keep it to yourself. Second best: Tell one other person—if you must. There is no third best.
As I believe is famously attributed to Benjamin Franklin (a favorite quote of mine):
“Three may keep a secret – if two are dead.”
I always like to imagine this advice is basically “Yeah, if you really feel the need to tell some people your secret, you go ahead and do that…but then you’re just gonna hafta put ’em in the ground, with your Revolutionary War musket.”
This Benjamin Franklin sounds pretty smart, for a dead guy. I wonder whose secret he’s keeping now.
We can’t say.
True, but it’s not like Sarah was just wandering around gossiping about Becky’s sex life. Joyce asked her a question about why Becky was acting differently. All Sarah did was fail to lie to her. Would an “it’s not my place to say; you should ask Becky” have been more appropriate? Probably! Without seeing the conversation itself, I hesitate to say for sure. But being blunt with the truth is in-character for Sarah, and she was never actually told to keep it a secret from Joyce (that we know of).
Especially given that Joyce was upset about being infantilised and being treated like she can’t handle simple, basic information everybody else can handle, and that Becky was shouting it down the corridors so if it weren’t for the surprisingly good soundproofing in their Halls Joyce would definitely already know – I can see Sarah deciding that on balance “Becky and Dina had sex and she’s super-happy about it but also the religion thing is taking on the form of being too ashamed to tell you, but literally specifically JUST you, about it. I know you love her and am telling you this while trusting you not to use this to hurt her or resurrect the argument you guys had after Liz was here because I don’t think you deserve to be infantilised; and I do think you can handle this maturely and be happy that she and her girlfriend, who you know she is in a deeply committed relationship with and could well end up marrying, experienced an event that strengthened that relationship. Any questions or conversation done?” was probably the route least likely to lead to drama, short- and long-term.
It’s also possible Sarah started off with that, then Joyce put two and two together and directly asked her.
Look, whether or not you should be able to expect people to keep a secret, you actually can’t expect them to keep a secret, especially when you’ve all but hired a skywriter.
Becky was the first one to make it less of a secret by loudly announcing to everything and everyone and actively getting people who actively didn’t care (Carla) involved
That’s not reasonable at all. Sharing a secret with one person and asking them to keep it in confidence is reasonable. But once you’ve told several people, it’s basically public information. Some of them are going to repeat it. This may not be ideal, but sensible people deal with the world as it is. Those who expect the world to conform to their ideals tend to suffer a whole lot of disappointment.
Yeah, but see, what you don’t get is that Joyce has to find out about it not from Becky shouting it everywhere, but in some other way that fits the script in Becky’s head, where Joyce confronts Becky about it and Becky gets to be Morally Right instead of a hypocrite.
:eyeroll:
See, I don’t even read that level of self-righteous malice from Becky. I only think she’s a fuckin’ bozo for expecting everyone on Earth to care about her dumbass “secret”. Like, if two people she screeched it at were talking about it and Joyce happened to overhear them, does that count as a violation? There has to be a baseline, and Becky absolutely set that line way too high for any degree of realistic expectation.
But, but, but wacky hijinks!
In fairness, elevated expectationsare a classic element of wacky hijinks. Of course, so is an inevitable backfiring of those expectations. Really, we’re pretty much on track.
I do, however, read that level of self-righteous malice from some of the Becky fans in this comment section.
That is definitely true
Gotta be honest, I’m not seeing it. Can you give examples? I only ask because it seems like one person causing the friction in this case.
I learned long ago that if you really want keep a secret secret, don’t tell it to anyone. Because sooner or later, someone is gonna reveal your secret, accidentally or otherwise.
Yo Andy, I think you’re forgetting that Dina YELLED at the top of her lungs “BECKY AND I TOTES FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER!” Anyone hearing that would be reasonable to assume it is no secret, if they were not explicitly told to not tell one specific person about the thing that is BEING SHOUTED.
I mean it’s not like Becky was doing much to keep it a secret. If you hear her bragging to literally everyone she interacts with about it you can probably assume it’s not a big deal to share.
Sarah didn’t just blurt it out, Joyce specifically asked her about it. I think it would have been worse for Sarah to lie and say she didn’t know what was going on.
“I’m sorry, but that’s not mine to tell. You’ll have to ask Becky about it.”
Which has NEVER been Sarah’s style.
And frankly, Becky’s rationale for not telling Joyce was far more infantilizing than their drama with the pills.
None of which changes the fact that Sarah has no right to be telling anyone about anyone else’s sex life without their permission.
It is shitty to reveal someone’s secrets, but there is a point where something stops being a secret and I think bragging to half the dorm about it goes past that point.
It not only goes past that point, it left that point behind about seven towns and four rest stops ago.
Which is Sarah’s greater obligation? To respect Becky’s ‘privacy’ (the scare quotes are completely merited), and not answer Joyce’s question…or to not support Becky’s lying to Joyce by avoiding, deflecting, or lying to Joyce when asked about a something that is common knowledge?
This high minded defense of the privacy of Becky’s sex life is frankly ridiculous. If Becky had kept it remotely private, you would have a solid case, but what you’re endorsing is Becky’s right to get people to lie to Joyce about it. Especially if Sarah has heard multiple people including Becky speaking and even shouting publicly about it.
There is no lie in saying”you need to ask the person whose secret this is.” Becky never asked anyone to lie to Joyce. She asked them not to tell Joyce. There’s a difference between secrets and lying.
And honestly, it’s not a defense of Becky’s sex life in particular. So long as everyone involved was a consenting adult, no one deserves to have the details of their sex life spread about. Every person has the right to keep their personal life private and the right to expect that their friends will not go about sharing information like that
Just out of curiosity, how many times can you shout a piece of information in a public setting until it’s no longer private?
Like here (heck, Dorothy even points that out here)
Or here (they couldn’t even see who else was in the bathroom or within earshot, seems not very private anymore)
Or here
They absolutely have the right to keep their personal and sex lives private. Becky and Dina however, have opted to not do that.
I think “i’m not getting involved/ask her yourself” would’ve also been sarah’s style but i guess it might’ve been the quickest way she decided to solve it
i’m sure irl some others would’ve blurted it. though even if joyce would’ve reacted the same way regardless, i think still better coming from sarah versus carla whos technically not even in their friend group/clique
I’m curious which information falls into “other people can relay it” and which falls into “not okay for other people to relay.”
I doubt there would be a problem if Sarah had passed along that Becky was sick, or had gone out to eat at a certain restaurant. There’s a whole range of stuff that would be perfectly normal for someone to talk about another person doing.
This is a FANTASTIC point (and thank you, because knowing what’s not okay to talk about without being told is something I really struggle with). Your other point, about how it is burdensome to share news with nearly everyone and then asking them to go to the effort of pretending they don’t know, is also fantastic.
Also, yelling information to as many people as possible and then demanding they keep it secret is is just burdening those people, and they never asked for that. Becky’s not entitled to that from them.
That’s a good point. They didn’t ask for the info to begin with, so it’s absolutely a burden to add a demand on top of that.
This. Secrets are opt-in things. You START with “but you can’t tell X”, and you give people the chance to “is this bullshit? cos if it is, I want no part of it” before you tell them things.
I might agree with you if Becky hadn’t been going around telling everyone, in fact not just telling but shouting about it
Even shouting about it outside Joyces door.
Once you’ve done that you’ve lost any “keep it secret” expectations and it, potentially, puts Sarah in a bind as well
I retract the bit about shouting it outside Joyces door, that was Carla
But everything else still stands
YES, FUCKING COOL SARAH. I’m glad she’s filling the void that Mike used to by being the one who will not play these BS games and say what no one else will.
Mike was garbage and the cast is better off for his absence.
If you’re using Mike as your rubric for good behavior, your telling us far more about your lack of morals that I think you intended.
Hey Andy, please learn to tell the difference when people are praising a character for actions they would like to see happen in real life, and when people are praising a character for being an interesting character that adds an element they like to the story.
Like, you took someone saying “I’m glad the void left by The Asshole Who Pushes Plot Beats And Character Arcs Along is being filled by someone else who can stop the story from getting too slowed down by the rest of the cast’s tact and passivity”, and used that to accuse them of LACKING MORALS holy shit dude what the hell
Mike’s character has always been, regardless of universe, an unrepentant asshole whose gleeful lack of tact allows him to be the perfect author’s tool to move things along when Joyce and Walky’s puppy love is taking too long to flourish, or Amber needs to get her head out of her Dad’s shadow and kick this toy store’s/mutant honey bun’s ass, or Walky’s relationship with Dorothy needs to change gears. The Mike Drop was a great swerve because people, especially the kind of people who read DoA, have their patience for unrepentant meanness at an all-time low, even in a fantastical fictional setting – and his schtick worked better in Shortpacked! which is much more gag-a-day, and generally pettier than DoA. So removing the character makes sense while also being a big sea change for a chunk of the cast, and just this weird sad thing the rest of the cast tries not to think about, which sets up a really interesting tension. But killing Mike also removes an extremely valuable tool from Willis that has basically always been there.
Sarah was kidnapped and had every reason to fear for her life, and now she’s officially a single Mom of a girl one year younger than her. And she’s still trying to get that law degree. Sarah’s life sucks now, and it’s very much not her own life. Makes thematic sense to put that tact-agnostic BS-cutting plot power with no character to attach itself to into her.
Also, it’s weird how sympathetic this audience can be to every abuse victim in the cast but Mike. Really seems like a lot of people are unintentionally playing into that whole “model victim” mentality. He was abused by a teacher when trying to defend a friend, a friend who disregarded his words and abandoned him while this happened. And yet he still kept trying to make her and Ethan’s lives better. Yes, in a shitty puppet master controlling way, but a need for control is a common and understandable response to abuse. His only friends were too fucked up (due in no small part to an incident that wasn’t his *fault* but still happened because of him) and too young to push back at his growing mean, manipulative streak. He’s not going to trust mental health advice from authority figures now, especially any ones connected to the education or legal systems. And his parents are probably too busy having great sex to realize what’s happening – and also, he’s a teen. Isn’t this kind of thing supposed to happen with teens? Then he goes to college and is murdered in the first semester. Dies, coincidentally, FIGHTING THE SAME MAN WHO WAS THE DISPLACED TARGET OF HIS ANTI-AUTHORITY RAGE AFTER HIS ABUSE, which caused a series of events that led to Amber becoming Amazi-Girl which ultimately culminated in him being murdered by an abusive authority figure. And then, once again, for one last time, after defending Amber, Amber abandons him. And he dies, before he could even enter his 20s, before his brain could finish developing, before he ever had a chance to learn to trust again, change, and grow. Man, Mike rules as a character and is so incredibly well plotted.
Short packed Mike will always be best Mike. I’m really bummed we didn’t get more of him in this world. Yes he was a shitbag but he wasn’t a pure shitbag.
Shortpacked readers are more intimately familiar with the specifics of Mike’s assholishness and why and how they manifest. I think people familiar with the Walkyverse are gonna be inherently more willing to cut Mike some slack and give him the chance to develop, than people who are only familiar with the characters as shitty teens.
I was really looking forward to an arc with Amazigirl being conflicted about Mike underage drinking – but actually being nice for once. But also, I really like where Willis took the It’s Tragic Mike Backstory this time, and how the new trauma replacing dying in a secret war tied so well into Amber and Ethan’s arcs. Like, damn, we got two really solid but markedly different character arcs for the same “one-note joke” character. Great shit.
Get the stick out of your ass, you judgemental clod.
On a second glance, “clod” seems to have connotations of stupidity. I’ll retract that part, I honestly don’t think you’re stupid and it’s a little meaner than I was going for.
“If YoU’Re UsInG mIkE aS yOuR rUbRiC fOr GoOd BeHaViOr, YoUr TeLlInG uS fAr MoRe AbOuT yOuR lAcK oF mOrAlS tHaT i ThInK yOu InTeNdEd.”
Learn the difference between fiction and reality before you start shit-talking people’s moral fiber over a fictional fucking character. You’re coming across as an insufferable scold, and it’s not remotely warranted. The morality of real fucking people does not hinge on which fictional fucking characters they like. Grow up.
well, idk where sarah is now but i don’t know if becky would blow up at her
tho it feels like carla or anyone else rly could’ve tweeted like “These two girls from X wing keep shouting about having sex, ah youth” or so and eveyrone would’ve seen
Sarah’s extremely cool, what do you mean?
Sarah doesn’t owe Becky silence or anything else TBH.
I know this debate has already steamrolled far past any hope of reason but, looking back at the comics where Sarah found out, I don’t think she actually knew it was a secret. It looks like she found out from Carla.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/masking/
YOU POOR STUPID BABIES
I can’t remember when Sarah found out, but I’m sure it was despite her best intentions never to find out anything about anyone.
Also i think Becky and/or Dina specifically asked Sarah not to yell Joyce by they badly overestimated her supply of effs
I don’t know if Sarah found out or if it was just super obvious. And if she wasn’t told, she wouldn’t have been asked not to tell Joyce.
Looked in the tags real quick, it looks like this is where Sarah found out https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/masking/
And reading strips since then, Sarah was never told that Becky wanted this to be a secret from Joyce. When Joyce asked her, Sarah wouldn’t have a reason not to mention what she knew.
(Sarah saw Ruth order Carla not to tell Joyce, but that could’ve been because Carla was pointing and laughing about it. Ruth didn’t tell anyone else not to spill it.)
I stand corrected
Ruth saw to Carla because she knew Carla would tell Joyce in the most obnoxious and trolling way possible.
it does seem like ruth only forbid (forbade?) carla from telling her but i think dina likes sarah enough to forgive her this time. or be reasonably mad and get an apology at least
Was Dina even concerned about keeping it a secret? I thought she was only doing so for Becky.
“If I had important information to share, I would simply immediately share it and not pay attention to what kind of faces the other person makes.”
In case the link doesn’t work:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/blobs/
Ah, yeah, I remember this now. And I mean, if Carla knew, I could see Sarah not thinking it was a secret, exactly, given I don’t think Becky or Dina are close with her, like, ever.
Still imprudent, but less fucked up given those circumstances.
OTOH since this is Carla going out of her way to pass some salacious news to Joyce, it would be reasonable to assume that Joyce isn’t supposed to be told.
And then Becky began to plot against Sarah
“Yay, new archenemy!”
Yes, good, this is good.
Dumbing of Age Book 13: Lesbian Love Sleuth
Sounds like a reality show.
Likely a reference to “Girls With Slingshots”.
Well that was… anticlimactic.
But still, something seems off.
Oh, hey, you’re back. How you holding up? Feeling any better?
Hope you’re feeling better, NG. 🙂
One thing that’s “off” is that Joyce’s ears are clearly drawn with sharp outlines of the inner folds, but are also colored the same brown as Joyce’s hair. She has hair-colored ears, and they’re too detailed to be just covered up by her hair.
…So that’s off.
There’s a rare statement. “She has hair-colored ears”. I dig it.
Or ear-shaped hair!
☺️Awe. First off, yeah I am feeling a little better, thanks! I’m still in pain, but coughing has gone down, thank the power of science! 🥲
As for what’s off in this strip, this anticlimax seems it could very well be but the eye of a drama hurricane if you know what I mean.
Apropos, given the current weather!
That’s just the other shoe waiting to drop, no biggie.
(Yes biggie.)
*cues up some “Road To Nowhere”*
And while I’m here I think I should inform anybody in David’s part of the continent: there is a 1980s space science satellite reentering the atmosphere in a few hours.
https://aerospace.org/reentries/erbs-id-15354
The track takes it over the center of Canada and the US from the eastern edge of the Canadian Rockies down through the Mississippi Valley to the Gulf near the Florida/Alabama coast. So if it does reenter early (roughly 1:30 AM Eastern/12:30 Central US) there will be a fairly substantial light show in the skies that will definitely be seen all across the country.
I am not in the relevant part of the world but this is still cool random information 🙂
Not through the rain and clouds in Cali.
I mean it was pretty obvious.
Joyce: Yeah, I don’t care.
Becky: …oh.
Awww… *hugs the both of them*
I’d say called it but I’m pretty sure everyone saw “she already knew they had sex” coming
Becky’s OpSec left a lot to be desired
I didn’t, but then I don’t have a good track record of predicting plot events.
Sleuth of lesbian love.
Love sleuth who is lesbian.
/insert meme of “Why not both?”
Apropos of nothing, lesbian sleuths is actually a mystery subgenre. I know this because I did an Independent Study in grad school where I read a bunch of them and then wrote about it with my school’s resident mystery professor.
You had a MYSTERY professor? Badasse!
Did you find out who they were by the end of the semester?
It turned out they were just a literature professor in disguise.
@Laura: Technically she was just a normal English professor who taught a Mystery class due to that genre being something she found personally interesting.
That is so cool.
I wonder if Joyce will turn her comic into this genre someday. Like Daisy has suggested last time she met.
Okay but are the sleuths lesbians or are they investigating lesbians? Those are two very different albeit not strictly incompatible things
Typically both.
The Kate Delafield series (which was my main focus) featured a lesbian private detective who kept taking cases about murders that took place in various local lesbian bars or other lesbian hang-outs.
Oh cool. What’s your favourite lesbian sleuth novel then?
(Also can we read your paper?)
If you want to get broad, my favorite lesbian sleuth novel series is the Kushiel’s Legacy series. In that it’s a Fantasy/Romance series where the protagonist does a lot of spying and mystery solving during the course of her adventures.
The Kate Delafield series was… okay? Very dated, but then it also serves as a time capsule for a very specific version of the lesbian experience circa when the novels take place (which I no longer remember).
As to my paper – um, it’s not published online anywhere, so no. I probably have a copy somewhere, but it really isn’t that interesting unless you’ve read the Kate Delafield series.
I’ll give Becky a tenth of a point for being the one to start to tell Joyce, balanced against all the ones off for wanting and trying to make it a thing that she could be Righteously Defensive about.
(Back when this topic first came up, months ago, I went on record as wanting Joyce’s eventual reaction to be something that didn’t fit Becky’s script at all. This isn’t what I imagined, but I’ll definitely take it.)
i had assumed and hoped that Joyce already knew but I had also assumed Joyce knew because everyone was yelling about it right outside her door
If it’s any consolation, that’s basically how Sarah knew.
There’s a spot waiting for you on the scoreboard, Joyce. I’ve got your color set already and everything. Come over to the F-Bomb Side, Joyce.
Start by talking about Vietnamese noodle soup: Phở.
Then build up to saying the French word for “seal”: phoque.
Eventually that word will trip off the tongue easily.
Then start listening to George Carlin’s “Seven Dirty Words” and the related songs. It’ll come to ya in time.
If anyone’s interested, here are a couple of times Becky called Dorothy by her name in Joyce’s presence
Enqueerinatin
Defraud (I’m pretty sure this is the one that tips Joyce off)
And Becky’s ‘agreement’ with Dorothy: Judgy-judgy
Does anyone remember(/have the energy to search the relevant tags and check) if Sarah finding out about said agreement was shown on screen?
From what I can tell, Sarah found out when Carla told Dorothy, thinking (well..assuming) that Dorothy was Joyce. At most, Sarah might have heard Ruth forbid Carla from telling Joyce, but afaik, she doesn’t know.
Nice investigation.
So, Sarah has told the true to Joyce like a time ago, huh?
Oh man, in both of those, Joyce responds to Becky saying “Dorothy” with what could be a quizzical look. I didn’t even notice Becky was still calling Dotty Dorothy, woops
Yeah, it’s really well-handled imo, very visible in retrospect! I love seeing that sort of attention to details and little signs of how far ahead this has been planned.
Also Splitting Off, but I would guess Sarah already told her by then.
Ah yes; the tried old sleuthing technique of. . . asking simple questions. Masterful stuff.
Real talk; I’m so happy we didn’t drag this out for too long lol
The devious tactic of asking about what you want to know. Nobody saw it coming.
In a world of needless intrigue and subterfuge and fake secrets and other such skullduggery, a direct request for information becomes the truest crime.
Yeeeah… Joyce being miffed at having to hear it from *Sarah* instead of her childhood best friend is understandable. Then again she is also tired and exhausted for a lot of reasons hence her only showing mild annoyance at most.
I don’t think Joyce cares. She’s at least known since this morning and has had opportunity to confront Becky on it and didn’t.
Joyce has a plate piled high with her own issues, she doesn’t need any from Becky.
I honestly don’t get any annoyance from Joyce at all in this strip. She just had a big blow-up (justified) so I’m getting the emptied out and fucking done with people vibe but not over the becky/dina thing.
Becky, even with Sarah, you weren’t exactly being subtle.
Becky is the opposite of subtle.
And now Joyce is gonna tell Becky about her potential autism diagnosis, and Becky will be like, well duh, and no one is gonna remember to tell Dina that everyone knows.
I’m betting on that last part!
So the whole Joyce is gonna point and laugh at me theory Becks had was just insecurity she built up herself. Yeah this friendship has changed. They’ve lost some trust.
even better: IMO, she wanted to be laughed at, or scolded, so that she could define herself by standing up for herself (and Dina) against that. Joyce not doing any of that is taking all of the wind out of her sails.
(it also means that all of her lingering doubts and guilt about what she did still have her own voice/face attached, not someone else’s. makes them a lot harder to push back on.)
I think she wanted to be laughed at and scolded, not so she could define herself by standing up for herself, but because she feels like she deserves to be laughed at and scolded.
Think of it this way, both of her parents are dead. As far as we know, she has no other family. Joyce is the closest thing to her parents she has, in that Joyce knew her parents, and they were raised in the same community. The same God Fearing, “you’re going to Hell for even one small mistake” community. Try as she might to move past it, I think Becky is expecting to be punished for having sex with Dina, whether that comes from her previously besty-in-Christ, or from the Big Man himself.
As someone who’s lost a parent, it is a strange feeling when you realize that you can kinda… do whatever you want now. My dad is still alive, but he’s so chill that unless I did something very uncharacteristic (like snorting coke) he’d still love me and accept my decisions. But now that my mom is gone, that firm rock of parental guidance is gone. And in the absence is unfamiliarity, and fear, and freedom. I think that’s a space Becky’s navigating in while also feeling some internal shame for something she honestly enjoyed (which, in typical fundy Christian fashion, means she did something extra bad if she enjoyed it!!)
that seems like a pretty harsh read of Becky, and in general I wouldn’t take the route of ‘[someone] actually wanted to be treated badly, just so they could define themselves by standing up against it” in general.
plus what doopyboop said
I’m not sure about the self-definition aspect, but perhaps there’s a level to which Becky wanted Joyce to flip out because Joyce not flipping out would be the ultimate sign that she’s no longer the Joyce who was Becky’s “bestie in Christ” and is now a completely different Joyce who’s going to leave Becky behind like she always feared. It’s true that the web of neurotic fundie entanglement has becky’s brain in knots, but it’s also important to acknowledge the hecka abandonment issues she has from losing both (yes, I’m counting her dad, too) her parents within a relatively short span of time.
Agreed to all of this.
Also agree (re: bestie in Christ). Re: Becky’s dad- although she seems to have never had a great relationship with him, I’m sure she never expected him to be involved in kidnapping and (attempted) murders. She only found out how bad he was shortly before he died. I think she’d be mourning him (and definitely feeling abandoned) even if he was alive.
Hello, it is time for me to quote BoJack Horseman re: parent death with a parent you don’t have a good relationship with:
“Suddenly, you realize you’ll never have the good relationship you wanted, and as long as they were alive, even though you’d never admit it, part of you, the stupidest goddamn part of you, was still holding on to that chance. And you didn’t even realize it until that chance went away.”
Joyce is tired of being a teenage drama character and pushed the plot aside from all the insulting and discussing drama with other friends and reconciling at the end.
Sarah is having none of your sitcom shenanigans.
Everyone is focusing on Joyce finding out about Becky & Dina, but what about Joyce just blurting out she knows there’s no God? Wasn’t she keeping being atheist from Becky? Becky doesn’t seem to have a reaction, so maybe I forgot that she found that out already? But wasn’t that the whole reason Becky was worried about Joyce knowing in the first place?
Becky found out Joyce was an atheist a little over a year ago in our time, or about five days ago in theirs. Joyce is, however, currently keeping her autism not-yet-a-diagnosis a secret from Becky.
So I did forget. Thanks.
Naw she already said it during video games and Becky overheard, while also implying people who believe in god are dumb.
Don’t worry I had the same knee jerk reaction just now until I remembered that happened too. 😛
Becky was worried because she thought a newly atheist Joyce would mock her for being a hypocrite for having premarital sex despite believing in god.
Becky definitely already knew about Joyce’s de-Jesus-ification.
Goddamn it
…Well I picked a bad night to show up an hour late.
lmao
Maybe this will lead into a conversation about how not including your childhood bestie in an Important Life Update because you’re scared of how they’ll react is reasonable, and how regretting the way they did find out is also reasonable?
Such as when your bestie finds out from a third party that you’ve gone against all the teachings of your religion by having sex. Or when your bestie finds out from overhearing what you THOUGHT was a private vent that you’ve gone against all the teachings of your former religion by becoming an atheist. I just think it could be an interesting parallel.
That would require Becky to grow some self-awareness, which to be fair it seems like she might be in the middle of doing in this strip.
That’s what I’m thinking. Hoping, at least. I imagine she’ll go right back to her goofy-happy act as soon as the conversation wraps up, but I think there’s decent odds that we get some down-to-earth communication in the near future.
Everyone’s mad at Sarah but I’m just glad Becky and Joyce are actually talking about their feelings instead of around them. Growth!
I’m not even slightly mad at Sarah, if that helps. She’s the only one who did the right thing, by trampling all over Becky’s ridiculous “secret” instead of helping to “keep” it.
I also agree, it’s much better for them to talk about these things.
Yeah I’m kind of surprised how upset some folks are at Sarah. As far as we know, she was never actually asked to keep the news from Joyce? And I dunno about you, but… I’d probably have done the same without really thinking about it. If I don’t know something is meant to be a secret, I assume it isn’t one and will respond in conversation accordingly; I tend to assume secrets are being KEPT secret and I forget that people often talk about them oddly freely anyway. I don’t know if that’s the case for Sarah, but…point is, I really don’t get why everyone is up in arms as if Sarah is intentionally being nasty about someone else’s news. As far as I can tell, all she did was answer a question with her usual bluntness.
I’m with you, I hope this conversation goes well! I suspect it’s going to clear the air on a few different points, if so.
I mean, Sarah learned about Becky and Dina because *Carla* yelled the news at her and Dorothy. I think it’s safe to assume that any information Carla knows won’t be a secret for long.
someone’s gotta be the bad guy/rip the bandage off. If she really didn’t subconsciously, she probably wouldn’t have been that vocal/braggy about it, but they are technically still teens, other than ruth’s threats, the fastest way for someone to know something is to tell people you don’t want X to happen/repeated
I think Becky subconsciously wanted Joyce to find out but was too hung up to tell her herself.
IMO she absolutely did, but in a particular context.
These kids are (both) so messed up. Mostly thanks to their parents and community, but also other things that have happened to them.
I’m not mad, this is really funny.
I’m just impressed that Joyce actually said “sex”
She’s done it a few times, but I’m always a little bit caught off guard when it happens.
“Did she tell you it was awesome? Cuz spoiler alert. It was AWESOME.”
Can confirm. It did look quite awesome.
i can’t imagine it being disappointing even w/o reading the slipshine but i wonder what the potential drama/strain on the relationship would’ve been if it was a bad first time for becky
Y’know, that does put a certain sort of pressure on Dina (and anyone in her position really?) to perform well during every potential “first time”.
The fortunate thing is that it’s both of their first experiences so they can go through this journey together.
Personally I’m at the point where I just wanna have my first time to get it over with. I’m certain I’ll be bad at it but the sooner I go for it the sooner I’ll learn to be better at it.
You didn’t ask, but here I am anyway with my Sex Tips (they’re not actually about, like, technique or anything):
1. Communicate. Communicate before so you both go in with clear expectations, communicate during to check in with the other person and let them know how you’re doing, communicate after as you get back to an equilibrium.
2. You’re probably going to be nervous; that’s fine. In addition to the above, don’t be afraid to laugh. That’s not, like, necessary in the way communicating is, but it can relieve a lot of tension and just make you feel more comfortable, and honestly can be a pretty natural reaction. Don’t try to make yourself laugh, but you don’t have to fight it either.
3. Send a message (or however you usually talk to the person) after. Like, even (especially?) if it’s just a hook up where you’re planning never to see the other person again, send something along a little bit after the fact; this goes along with 1, but it’s also a little separate, sort of a way to approach closure of the experience.
4. If you’re hosting, offer the person water afterward. It’s just nice.
This isn’t universal, but there’s more to sex than just sex, you know? This part is definitely YMMV, but– I wouldn’t describe someone who did these things as “bad at it.”
*writes that down*
Thanks!
Well. This looks like a positive step for both of them, actually.
well, other than her internalizing/still considering herself a ‘hussy’ for simply taking the pills as opposed to the benefit of her actually being able to have sex (But even then i would think the initial reason to stop/make the pain less intense as the main purpose would be her main focus/lots of ppl probably want to stop their periods but not necessarily have sex (ironically i’ve heard for some people it *decreases* libido) but i don’t have religious trauma XP)
Joyce wasn’t kidding when she blew up. Jennifer took her to the doctor for a cut-and-dry “These are to help with your brutal periods” visit and everyone else has said “So, now you’re gonna start fucking, right?” Sarah was actually the one to set off the confrontation with Roz by making the pills about Joyce’s “reproductive freedom.”
B: Are you a hussy? Dunno, what do you think that means?
J: …I really don’t actually know. I was told it’s bad.
B: Maybe we should do something rad and find out for ourselves, ‘stead of lettin’ the voices in your head tell ya. Gotta dictionary?
love lesbian sleuth
Are we still doing random-ass questions to help alleviate tension? Fuck it, I got one. What’s a common item you’ve never purchased? Window cleaner, ground beef, condoms, chocolate, literally anything that happens to be very common where you live is free game.
Personally, I’ve never bought briefs (or tighty-whiteys if we’re using the scientific name) or mushrooms. No reason at all to keep them in the house, so I just don’t buy ’em.
I have never once bought diapers, I have no need
Ooh, that’s another one. I’ll hopefully never have a reason to buy those, either.
ngl, not that i go outta my way looking for it, i wouldn’t be surprised if all the “amazon doesn’t allow employees proper bathroom breaks” to snowball into articles like “more adult diapers are being sold to 10 hour/night time shift workers”
Haha, interesting question.
Do items i’ve never bought but have shoplifted count? =P
Pine nuts. Fucking love these things, either just to snack on or make pesto, but they are so expensive, and tend to come in conveniently pocket sized packets, i dont think i’ve ever paid for them.
Oh man, you just woke up so many sleeping memories I had of shoplifting. I only ever did it with petty shit like snacks or fidget toys, but I knew people who’d yoink art supplies and collectibles.
Now and then I get the urge to shoplift something, but I don’t (in the present). Some of my friends do, and I don’t, like, disagree with it, but I do get nervous going into stores with them.
When I was younger I shoplifted something I really shouldn’t have, definitely wouldn’t with the understanding of the world I have now, and the memory of that definitely helps me push down the urge.
I’ve always found shoplifting stories to be really interesting =) it can be a very personal subject, and sometimes elicit really intense emotions.
I did it a lot at one time, i don’t know, i was in a circle where a lot of us did it constantly, there was even an element of bragging. now i’ve gotten nervous, i’ve lost my nerve somehow. But i still do sometimes, kind of out of necessity. Or, one might argue, out of laziness. I could work more if i wanted, but um, i don’t want. 🤷♀️
But also i think it’s kind of fucked to shoplift when you’re with someone who doesn’t feel comfortable with it. I only do it if i’m alone or with people who are cool with it.
baking soda. well, i know we need some for the fridge but i’m not the one that buys them (tho if anything we prolly should change it out more often no matter how advanced ‘smart’ fridges get [not that i have one in particular but i’m sure my dad would if we were upper class rich lol])
…Maybe a fire alarm detector, i mean idk if we ever inspected the old one but we prolly need those too (prolly should think of less concerning/”omg you should address that issue soon” examples lol
High heels? I like fashion/cute clothes but i don’t rly care about shoes much in comparison, as long as they’re comfy/sturdy, cuteness might be a ‘bonus ‘but i don’t go outta my way to find cute shoes, tho luckily i don’t find most sneakers/walking shoes especially ‘ugly’ anyways)
You need baking soda… For the fridge?? :frowny-face:
Common thing here, putting an open box of baking soda in the fridge is supposed to help cut down on the fridge smells. Ther are even baking sodas specially marketed for that purpose.
Ooh, ok. Makes sense i guess, though it’s true i’ve never heard it done over here haha. I guess my (our??) way of taking care of potential smells is just to have everything in airtight containers or under plastic film.
I don’t understand the baking soda fridge thing, either. Maybe it’s for things that don’t seal well? Or the unsealed produce that just goes in the fridge as-is? Or the coating of residue that builds up on the shelves and door over time from all the random little drips?
Just clean your refrigerators, people. “The gross thing hiding in the back of the fridge” is a stupid sitcom trope.
You’re right, and I agree with you that the solution to funky smells is to just clean…
But I have adhd and therefore have the object permanence of a literal infant. I just found cheese in my fridge that expired in November because I forgot we had it and never had a craving for it. Also I didn’t realize it had been in there for 4 months because I have no concept of time. So.
Wait. Cheese expires?
Just cut the green bits off and it’s fine.
No but seriously, cleaning the fridge is really hard when you already forget to do things if there’s a wall or container between you and the needed chore. In the other room, in a self-contained box? Nah, that’s not getting done until I get a wild hair up my ass while I’m already looking for coffee creamer or something.
Potentially TMI, but we were low on dishes for our Christmas cooking and wound up having to purge and scour the containers holding our Thanksgiving leftovers. When I say “assault on the senses”, I’m being polite about it.
I don’t think it has to be one or the other? Like, sure, clean your fridge, but you can still use baking soda to help out. Like, yeah, you should shower regularly, doesn’t make deodorant pointless.
I keep baking soda in the fridge to handle generic cross-scentage. Like, if I’ve got produce in the fridge I don’t want it to pick up the smell from a plate of chicken that I set in the fridge to cool before I put it in a sealed container.
I’ve got a bad smell in my fridge right now and as far as I can determine, after SEVERAL checks, I’ve tossed everything that could possibly be making it. It’s just a lingering thing at the moment ’cause I can’t actually open it and let it air out without also using/tossing everything ELSE that’s currently in it. (Don’t think I’ve not been tempted.) So, it’s (another box of) baking soda for me, on my next shopping trip.
Unfortunately some containers that claim to be airtight aren’t. Or sometimes they’re not actually closed all the way. Stuff happens. I’m glad this isn’t a problem for you though!
Sure, sure. I’d simply never heard of the baking soda trick before. I might give it a try?? (Otoh i live alone, i’m a vegetarian and i don’t like smelly cheese. So i’ve never really had an issue either way)
(I may also simply not be very sensitive to smells)
Thaaaat explains why my mom kept baking soda in the fridge when I was a kid. But she kept it in a little bowl. I thought it was sugar and tried a bit. I was horribly deceived.
It helps the fridge not be stinky.
https://images.heb.com/is/image/HEBGrocery/000110108 I mean these things but who knows, maybe it’s been a lie all these years for ppl to be tricked into buying them
I don’t think I’ve ever actually bought any sports equipment for myself. I have very little interest in sports, either playing or watching it.
Not sure if I’ve bought sports gear, either. I vaguely recall having some tennis rackets somewhere, but we moved so far away from the nearest tennis court that it’s not practical or worth keeping them.
I’ve never bought table napkins, I just use paper towels instead.
We also use paper towels most of the time. Table napkins are fine and all, but they’re stupidly expensive by comparison and the ones that aren’t, it takes like 7 of them to get as much cleaned as a half-sized paper towel anyway. I think my girlfriend has bought maybe 5 little packs of napkins, always the themed holiday ones, and only in preparation for gatherings with our friends.
Despite spending 5 years of my life cutting up fruits and veggies, I’ve never once bought myself kiwi, watermelon, cantaloupe, or honeydew. I’ve also never eaten a kiwi, now that I’m thinking about it.
Around here, at least, melons and kiwis are pretty expensive most of the time. And if you can get a melon, it’s pretty much relegated to watermelon or cantaloupe, because honeydew scares the local hillbillies.
This is not a never, but in the 3 decades or so since I graduated college, I only bought 1 TV. Every other one has been a hand-me-down.
Oh gods, I’ve been using the same flat-screen TV since like 2009 or something. We didn’t understand what the HDMI ports were for until a buddy brought over his Xbox 360 and had a fit about us still using the red/yellow/white plugs.
Same! I bought a CRT for $10 for my bedroom when I was a teenager from a friend’s moving sale, and since then they’ve all been hand-me-downs (current one is a very good 55″ 3D TV from a couple years ago, because my in-laws got even better TVs free from their cable company).
ANTI-MUSHROOM SQUAD GOOOOO
and to be clear, I love mushrooms, I just never ever want to eat them
Around here, the only mushrooms in my price range are those hateful beige button ones that every pizza place uses. They’re universally disgusting, no matter how well someone thinks they can cook them. The allegedly “good” ones are like $10 for one mushroom that’s like 3-4 inches wide, tops. I’m not spending the price of a decent restaurant meal for a single piece of fungus I may or may not even like, that’s ridiculous.
Mushroom propagandists must think poor people don’t exist, or something.
I mean some of us do just like those mushrooms. It’s fine that not everybody does. This is a slightly weird thing to get that intense about.
Whatever level of intensity you read into this, I promise it’s too high. Don’t police my tone.
To be fair, I’d be in support of fairly intense anti-mushroom-ness. Fuckin’ mushrooms.
(I do sometimes like certain mushrooms, but the type you were talking about? Hard pass.)
They are a blighted stain upon the very concept of edibility. Undyed cotton tastes better.
I AM HERE FOR ALL OF THIS
> Whatever level of intensity you read into this, I promise it’s too high.
> They are a blighted stain upon the very concept of edibility. Undyed cotton tastes better.
ohhhkayyy…
So you missed how that second quote was directly following a reply encouraging intensity about this harmless subject? Okay.
I think it’s fine since it’s this far down on the page, but Willis did once ask to not do these threads because they pushed down relevant comments.
That said: I haven’t bought real milk in probably 5+ years (and I do eat dairy), and I’ve absolutely never bought a vehicle (I’ve been given hand-me-down bicycles, but that’s it)
There was also a decent amount of other context around that, part of which was, like you said, how high it is on the page.
Yeah, I meant this as an answer to “Are we still doing random-ass questions to help alleviate tension?” not as scolding or anything
Lmao nice one Sarah
Considering that Becky (and sometimes Dina) went around telling pretty much everyone except Joyce that they had sex, often yelling it, I’m kinda surprised it took Joyce as long as it did to find out.
if my overy/uterian(sp?) pain was as intense as joyce’s seemed to be, i wouldn’t be focused on anyone elses business either lol
We don’t know exactly when she found out.
Prepare for the part where Joyce says Becky’s sex doesn’t count for stupid reasons that I don’t need to spell out. I want her to be better, but it’s certainly a possibility here.
Alt-text: Except for when Becky’s playing Lesbian Love Sleuth, in which case it modifies both, and then modifies “Sleuth” about twenty extra times for good measure.
Some people have non-religious reasons to not swear, but I get Joyce is still feeling things out for herself.
Glad Becky wanted to tell her. Not cool of Sarah to tell Joyce, but given she found out from Carla, someone that isn’t exactly in the circle, maybe she just didn’t think it was a secret.
In any case, glad Joyce doesn’t seem judgmental. Cute that she recognized Becky’s change in addressing Dorothy. Even with some of their tensions, it’s sweet she’s still in-tune with Becky’s quirks.
I do hope Joyce can talk out her neurodivergence with Becky, but I get if now isn’t exactly the time. Still, cards on the table would be good.
Obviously Becky’s “everyone can (and must) know except for Joyce” thing was unnecessary and doomed to fail, but I also think this strip shows some of where her worry was coming from (not in a “this was previously unknown way” but in a “this is *right there*” way). Joyce judges herself so harshly for something that *could* be related to sex, and Becky was afraid of those same judgments being directed at her. She was dealing with some internalized sense of shame herself and was scared of having that mirrored back her by someone she loves. Now, we’re the assumptions there fair to Joyce? No, obviously,, but fear and shame often don’t leave us the best judge of how others will respond.
As for Sarah telling Joyce… well, I’m not going to condemn Sarah for it, though I also don’t think it was the best move. I think some people want to come up with a “this is always okay” or “this is never okay” rule, when I think it’s very context dependent. In this context, not that big of a deal, though not ideal.
Of course, different situations are different—that’s the point of the above– but if someone were like, “Hey, I’m queer! I want to share this with people, but I don’t want x to know.” I wonder if responses about just telling x would differ.
I think it would depend on the person and the reason.
Like for the most obvious case: “I’m queer and I want to be out with my friends, but my parents can’t know.”
Trying to keep your best friend out of the loop while making sure casual acquaintances know? At the very least, it’s going to inevitably fail
For what it’s worth, Joyce knew something was up more than just Becky calling Dorothy Dorothy. And she possibly asked in a way that made “I dunno” not a reasonable answer. Not that Sarah would be inclined to lie anyways.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/defraud
I really do wish we could collectively stop the whole “[Character] made a suboptimal decision and is now Bad”, and the accompanying “You acknowledged the suboptimal nature of [Character]’s actions, therefore you are condemning [character] as a Villain”.
🙁 Poor Joyce; the whole ‘medicine to control your painful period’ = hussy pills situation really sucks. I had intensely bad periods but wasn’t ‘allowed’ to go on the pill until college because if my dad found out I was taking them he’d lose his mind and probably disown me. Its a screwed up situation.
I seem to recall I was offered a non-contraceptive option if I preferred that? Was it just me?
I’m not aware of a non-contraceptive method that would control or halt a painful period (other than pain relief which doesn’t really do either so much as just help to keep you moving). I would be really interested in knowing what you were offered.
My mom had some non-birth control prescription for period pain, I think it was just some combination of pain relief plus anti inflammatory plus maybe some kind of emmenagog or something to prevent huge clots from forming. I know it wasn’t BC because she only took it occasionally and once or twice gave me one.
to be fair joyce has no reason to say fuck now that sal’s motorbike is put away
Hahaha this is so realistic! Take that, tropes! Yay nothingburgers!
Now… the comments here are surprisingly full of drama. Huh. Perhaps not surprisingly?
“Drama” is such a reductive term, though.
Becky, Joyce literally told you that you should sleep with Dina multiple times.
Yeah, but that was all tied up in Joyce losing faith and it being okay because there was no God. And expecting Becky to do the same.
I can appreciate Joyce’s panel one frustration. Dropping her first f-bomb in a straight up, unabridged “F*ck you, Roz” would have left all the girlies quaking
is Sarah A SEX SNITCH
Yeah, ironically for an individual with very little faith in authority and an cynical view towards the equal dispensation of justice, Sarah is quite the snitch.
THEY WERE SCREAMING ABOUT HOW THEY TOTES FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER how is that snitching? Also, Joyce is not an authority figure. Actually, besides her former roommate (who was endangering Sarah’s education, if not more), when has Sarah ever snitched to an authority figure? Because if it’s not to an authority figure, that’s not snitching, that’s just good ol-fashioned gossip. And it’s not even really gossip if the people in question ARE YELLING THE GOSSIP IN THE HALLS
They were literally yelling in the hallways “I JUST HAD SEEEXX AND IT FELLT SO GOOOD…Butdon’ttelljoyceee”
Speaking from experience, it’s really hard to start cussing if you’ve had a lifetime of NOT doing it!
Also, did Sarah KNOW Becky didn’t want anyone to tell Joyce she and Dina had sex? Because if not then yikes, Sarah, that wasn’t cool.
Sarah generally doesn’t lie to Joyce, who asked. If Sarah has to be a Mom without the tax benefits, she’s only Momming one kid, and the rest can deal.
It’s not her secret to tell though. The motherly answer would be something like “You should ask her yourself”. It allows Becky the opportunity to decide if she does wanna talk about it or deflect without Sarah having to “lie”
I’d agree with this if Becky wasn’t making a habit of telling everyone within earshot, at a certain point it stops being a secret
So? Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people might know I draw porn. You know who might not know? My mom. So maybe don’t bring it up randomly over dinner.
I’m not blaming Sarah, i don’t think she knew it wasn’t meant to be a secret. But I’m not gonna just pretend she’s in the right for blowing the whistle on something someone considered a secret.
The “Motherly answer”???? Last I checked Sarah was Joyce’s peer not another parent…
I only said motherly since Booster Shot said “If Sarah has to be a mom without tax benefits she’s only momming one kid”. It is a direct response to the metaphor they used.
For that analogy to be comparable to Becky you would have to be shouting about it in your mothers neighborhood and telling everyone in your immediate family except your mom…in which case you shouldn’t be surprised if she finds out before or during dinner.
If I tell my aunties and extended family a secret I’d like them to keep from my mom and ask them not to tell her, then if one of them tells her, that’s a betrayal of my trust. Now if they don’t KNOW I wanted to keep it a secret, that’s different. Which is probably the scenario here. But if one of them decides “naw, I’m gonna let my sister know despite her son’s wishes” then yeah she’s suddenly gonna be my least favorite Auntie.
The point I’m making is that telling a large number of people in your immediate social circle and all your neighbors a secret that you want kept from one person in the same circle and area isn’t a realistic expectation unless said person is a complete recluse. Becky wasn’t just telling peope she trusted, she was telling all of the neighborhood dormitory, people she has no reason to trust to keep her ‘not so secret’ secrets.
And that point is irrelevent to my point. Because Sarah told Joyce. The question was “if Sarah knew Becky didn’t want Joyce to know and told her anyway, that is fucked up”. That’s what I was responding to.
It’s not a secret. They shouted it in the hallways. Sarah did nothing wrong.
Pretty sure she found out from Carla, and I don’t think Carla passed the message of secrecy on.
I’m happy that Becky has decided to confide in Joyce and I’m happy that Joyce already knew everything, but had said nothing waiting for her to speak. Hopefully this will be a deep discussion and they could talk about their fears.
Wait she has? I missed this?!?
Not exactly sure what you’re referring to here, so I’m gonna try and be helpful on multiple vectors.
If you mean Sarah telling Joyce, it happened off-screen.
If you mean Becky calling Dorothy ‘Dorothy’ instead of ‘Dotty’, yeah it happened a few times. Documented here.
If you mean Becky having had sex with Dina,
Something that I think is lost in all the “is Sarah right or wrong” discourse is the first two panels, Becky respecting Joyce’s boundaries by asking if she can come in after the blowup earlier and Joyce apologizing for a potentially hurtful remark towards Becky
They’ve clearly both matured since their argument
Absolutely, good progress has been made between them.
Ooh very good point. I hadn’t noticed the can I come in—that is important.
Girls with Slingshots reference!
For the record, I would watch the hell out of an HBO series called “Lesbian Love Sleuth”.