Dorothy I don’t think That Is Your Business. While you have known Joe to be a bad person, you aren’t treating Joyce well by acting like she isn’t capable of making informed decisions.
Dorothy said she wouldn’t judge Joyce for her feelings of lust because they are perfectly normal to have, but she has judged her on the focus of said lust because of the circumstances in which she would be with them, as in Jacob (I can’t remember what she said regarding Ethan).
So it could be the situation, messing with Joe who is a capital H Horndog, that’s the issue and not the lust in and of itself.
She also found Jacob attractive, and acted on it, which Dorothy was bothered by.
And based on Joe’s track record, if Joyce acts on her attraction with him, Dorothy won’t even have time to lecture her about all the reasons she feels that it’s wrong.
It’s not just the feeling that’s the problem for her.
And I speculate that she also doesn’t want to deal with the inevitable (in her opinion) fallout.
Her objection to the whole Jacob situation wasn’t “Joyce is attracted to this hunk of a man”, rather a lot more “…dudette, he’s got a girlfriend that he seems entirely happy with, trying to break them up like this is massively fucked up”.
Yes. The actions beyond just the lust.
Lusting after someone in a relationship isn’t a big deal.
Trying to steal said person from that relationship is.
Finding Joe attractive isn’t a big deal, but any actions beyond that would be a big deal in her eyes, and Joyce’s track record is to actually go after those she’s attracted to.
Going after someone she’s attracted to wouldn’t be a big deal on its own to Dorothy. At least I don’t think so.
It ties back to her perception of Joe as a serious creep. Nothing that came up during the lunch or that Joyce said afterwards gave her any reason to think Joe has changed. Now she sees that Joyce is crushing so hard she’s not likely to be clear headed about Joe’s character.
I don’t think she even realises Joe has a façade. Like, she’s known him her whole life, and he’s never given her any reason to think that this isn’t just who he is.
I don’t think Joe thinks it isn’t who he is. Joyce has gotten through the facade and joe is desparately afraid he’s going to hurt her because he is No Good without realizing that that worry is precisely why he isn’t.
Probably. That worry doesn’t necessary prevent it.
He could, for example, be well intentioned but have poor impulse control. Leading to him cheating and then feeling guilty without ever really planning on it.
I don’t think that’s what he’ll be like, but it’s a reasonable concern for him.
And it would be understandable if she voiced her concerns in a calm non judgmental manner. “Look Joyce, I have known Joe for a while and I am worried that he might hurt you.”
Her behavior isn’t a problem. Even her concern in this specific case is not necessarily a problem, because it’s actually based on an assessment of how Joe has acted for as long as she’s known him, which is somewhat longer than Joyce has.
However, her expression as she asked suggests that her motivation for asking and her ability to handle her feelings are somewhat lacking.
Well, yes, she only has one line of dialogue in this particular comic and that one line isn’t bad. Nor is her having reservations about Joe in previous comics. I totally get that.
What chafes me and I think others is someone else trying to be the arbiter of what is or is not a good choice for you, and that definitely feels to me like the trajectory this conversation is going through.
Well-intentioned overbearingness on Dorothy’s part has sort of been the theme of this book, after all. I could be wrong of course but I think that this is part of the road to getting Dorothy some character development beyond just her academic ambitions/woes.
Keep in mind, for the whole comic, Joyce has been implying all the relationship things she wants to do to, with, do with, Dorothy. And now, single for how long?, Dottie has kinda gotten into the idea that maybe… Then suddenly, a wild Joe appears. And, he’s sniffing around HER Joyce!
The fact that J&J have been orbiting each other for also the whole comic has escaped Dottie. Just a little.
I know a lot of y’all think Dorothy’s opening up to the idea of not being a 0 on the scale anymore, and she has already stated in conversation with Joyce that sexuality is fluid when Joyce tried to unalive herself via Ruth by commenting on her being with Jason, but I just don’t see it.
It just comes off as wishful thinking to me, but I am prepared to admit I’m wrong if it ever comes up.
I’m seeing it more as Dotty’s trying to step into the “Cool mom” shoes, and being blissfully unaware of how stereotypically degrading she is towards Joyce’s ability to be a grown ass woman. First though “Poor baby christian doesn’t know how Real World” Then through “Poor baby autistic doesn’t know how Real World”
Then again, I’d hate for a friend of mine to try to mom me, like really cheeze me off. And Joyce seems to, mostly, appreciate that side of Dotty. What rebellion I’ve seen so far have seemed more like mom-teenage daughter than a disagreement between friends.
I’m seeing it more as Dorothy mostly just being bewildered that Joyce — Joyce who hired Mike to punch Joe, Joyce who found being a 0 on the Do List to be a badge of honour — Joyce — is attracted to Joe. And, yes, there’s a questioning of Joyce’s judgement in there — because she questions the judgement of any woman who’s attracted to Joe, but up til now this has mostly been people she didn’t care about.
Honestly, has Dorothy actually seen anyone being attracted to Joe? She knows about Roz, of course, but that’s all I can think of. And that was after the fact.
I think that fits her characterization a lot better. The bi/lesbian awakening angle feels like the expectations of people raised on fandom ships rather than something that comes organically out of the character as a whole person.
If everybody thought that nobody else’s business was theirs, every member of the human race would die alone and we would be gone within one generation.
Asking “do you like joe?” and watching a virgin implode from the mere existence of a hormone does not seem like wrong behavior on Dorothy’s part. Is that just me?
Everyone getting in Dorothy’s face because she’s angry. Dorothy hasn’t expressed _why_ she’s angry, and it’s entirely possible that she’s angry at the situation and the trainwreck she perceives, but isn’t mad a Joyce. i.e. “Mad” and “Joyce is present” isn’t the same as being mad *at* Joyce.
Absolutely, completely, and totally HERE for the Joyce-written comics of the Amorous Adventures of (the not-at-all-autobiographical character) Julia Gray! Coming SOON to Slipshine!
I mean I’m not sure Dorothy has much justification for being angry at Joyce for her own feelings here. Dorothy asked a question and got her response. I know she’s got good reason to be suspicious of Joe but 5th panel in particular looks like it’s Joyce she is angry and judgemental at for finding Joe attractive.
I think Dorothy is mad and disappointed that Joyce would like a guy like Joe knowing how big a horndog he is (from Dorothy’s perspective).
As the mom friend, she wants Joyce to do and be “better” (and probably doesn’t want to deal with the “inevitable” fallout when Joyce’s fire sexual relationship goes to 💩).
I think it’s telling she didn’t give Joyce this level of judgment when dating Ethan a gay man or trying to break up a relationship but interest in a single man with no sexual shame is making Dorothy glare? Also she had this same reaction to Joyce not immediately thanking her for art supplies and towards Jennifer helping Joyce so I don’t think this is only about Joe being horny. It’s equally if not more about Dorothy being possessive now that the object of Joyce’s desire is someone who has a real chance at being her first real relationship.
Except Dorothy doesn’t come off as having romantic or sexual feelings for Joyce to me, so what’s there to be possessive of.
Becky or Sarah would be more of a target if that’s the case.
As for Jennifer, she said why she was mad, that she didn’t like the insinuation that she wanted to take credit for helping/didn’t like someone else helping and also didn’t like how Jennifer would show up but wouldn’t help out after setting stuff in motion.
The motivations are different.
Dorothy’s possessiveness of joyce doesn’t have to be romantic or sexual, as the mom friend she tends to micromanage others lives regardless and get frustrated when things dont go as she had planned. She had this same reaction to joyce skipping class with liz, tracking her down to regsin control. While Jennifer being smug about her one time helping was annoying, as Jennifer herself noted Dorothy’s outburst was way out of proportion to the offense. In all cases Dorothys anger revolves around joyce changing her routine in some way be it agreeing to go with Jennifer to a walk in instead of letting Dorothy book for her, skipping class once to hang out with someone else or favoring somebody else’s attention over her own (joe). Even if not romantic I think Jennifer was on to something when she suggested that Dorothy thinks of Joyce as ‘hers.’
Except she hasn’t been shown to favor Joe’s attention over Dorothy’s.
And skipping class was something completely out of character for Joyce, not to mention continuing as expected would mean hanging out with the new couple solo, so she could stay the course, do something else, or check in on her friend who was behaving abnormally (remember that everyone was shocked by Joyce skipping class, not just Dorothy).
I’d put it on her thinking Joyce isn’t adult enough to make her own decisions before I’d put it on possessiveness. That’s just as bad, though.
Mom style possessiveness can actually go hand in hand with the mentality that somebody isn’t adult enough to make their own decisions though. Dorothy knew joyce was skipping to hang out with Sarah and her family so there really wasnt any valid concern except that joyce was making a deciesion on her own that dorothy didn’t like, becky might have been the most vocal but Dorothy agreed with and enabled her, plus a quick message to joyce and Sarah would have been fine for checking in, they instead tracked her down like she was a runnaway child. Joyce hasn’t actually been favoring anybody yet but Dorothy is used to being Joyce’s closest friend alongside Becky and isn’t used to having a third person to compete with.
With Ethan and Jacob, Dorothy was disappointed in Joyce’s moral decisions. Here, Joyce isn’t doing anything immoral, and she knows Joe, she’s not doing poor judgement from being naive. I think Dorothy’s mad because Joyce likes Joe as a person and Dorothy doesn’t. Joyce isn’t deferring to her judgment, and Dorothy’s jealous of her influence over her. The “our good friend Joe” part is why she’s angry, Joyce being super horny for him is salt in the wound.
Anyways, remember how when Dorothy was seeing Walky and Joyce kept saying she was too good for him? Feels like Dorothy’s not going to be much different.
It seems clear me that Dorothy is under a lot of academic stress and hasn’t healed from the kidnapping either. She’s been on her last nerve for a bit. She’s had high expectations for herself and for her friends that are being disappointed. This crabbiness is probably better than pretending everything is fine until she explodes.
She didn’t know about Joyce dating Ethan (or about him being gay, one of the two) until after the fact. It was a thing that Joyce was worried about what Dorothy would say if she found out.
There was also a whole thing with Dorothy trying to talk Joyce out of going after Jacob once she found out about it. After the lunch with Raidah.
She actually did know about Ethan being gay I recall she had a breif discussion with walky about it but never confronted Joyc e. With Jacob yes she did attempt to talk Joyce out if it but she wasn’t giving Joyce the same level of anger/ disapproval as she is here. It was more just basic disappointment.
I’d have to check the sequence of events, but I’m pretty sure it was a plot point that she didn’t know about Ethan while they were dating. Digging back, that talk with Walky was right after she’d figured it out and right after Joyce had broken up with Ethan following the freakout in class.
I don’t get where people are seeing anger in Dorothy’s eyes here. That’s much more of an Annoyed scowl than anything to me, a “don’t you know what Joe is, dang it” type expression. She just seems more annoyed that Joyce should know better than this, that she should know what sort of person Joe is.
Of course, we know that Joyce has a more secret line on who Joe actually is now, because Dorothy’s had little to do with him over the last six months (which given the massive jackass that he was at the start of the school year, is entirely valid). But all she’s hearing from Joyce here is what a hunk Joe is, probably something she heard plenty of times back in High School from his eventual victims…
Yes, it would have been ideal for Joyce to explain to Dorothy about the months of character development and conversation she’s had with Joe. Dorothy knows nothing about any of that!
Exactly. No one’s given Dorothy any reason to think this isn’t going to be just Joe scoring another conquest. Joyce talking in today’s terms isn’t giving her less reason to worry.
It’s definitely something she’s paid attention to — all of her romantic interests have cleared 6 feet, and she was verbally very keen on Jacob’s beefiness as well. Homegirl’s got a type, if nothing else.
Short guys do have a bad trend of getting shafted in favor of taller guys. Luckily Walky is an exception cuz he has dated more girls in 4 months than I have in 28 years.
Looked back at a couple strips and Walky seems to be about 1/3 of a head taller than Lucy. About equal height to Billie and slightly shorter than Danny.
So he’s probably a tiny bit short, but not tiny himself. Sal is the same height and carries herself tall.
You understand that the median height difference between a man and a woman is (greater than) 6″? A guy can be genuinely ‘short’ and yet *still* be taller than a girl who is genuinely ‘tall’.
And this isn’t even getting into our cultural framing of ‘men must be 6′ tall or else they are short’.
While some bodies are in current fashion in media (in order to sell us stuff), various actual people are attracted to all kinds of various body types, including whatever you’ve got going on.
Maybe talk to, listen to, and believe women when they repeat over and over again how little most of us care about your height.
The majority of men complaining they were passed over for height also have fatphobic things in their profiles or other “I’m a major asshole” flags so maybe consider that they aren’t the best source for the opinions of and entire gender they actively dislike.
Yeah uh…Women have also said “I don’t wanna date a guy shorter than me/I don’t wanna date a guy under 6 feet” to me. I don’t care for this zero sum game where the idea is that EVERY guy who has a complex about being short only got it from other guys and NOT from women perpetuating this. It’s not just in our heads. It’s not that every woman prefers a tall guy in the world, obviously, but it’s happened enough to be a pattern.
That’s like saying “I know plenty of guys who don’t care about or don’t mind overweight women so therefore there isn’t a reason to feel bothered. Why not believe men when we tell you we don’t actually care about your weight? Because for every one of us there’s one that does and that’s the generational trauma you gotta deal with. Men aren’t the only people perpetuating it. So maybe consider that before you shift the blame ENTIRELY to fatphobic men who are assholes and discounting some people’s actual experience.
Dating seems absolutely impenetrable to me. Everyone has all these expectations of what other people expect, and all of it seems to disqualify a person from consideration before a one-on-one conversation has even been conceptualised. Too many layers of convoluted borderline paranoia to untangle just to maybe have a brief interaction that may or may not result in a tentative first date, which may or may not even go well, and even if it does, may not lead to any sort of connection afterward, and even if THAT happens, it may not last any appreciable amount of time.
And all of those layers start with the one above the one on the surface, essentially the packaging, which can be anything from “this person is shaped like this, and the others I’ve seen in this shape had this, this, and this attached so this one probably does too”, to “my friend’s cousin’s coworker said they read a Twitter thread where one of the replies mentioned that they heard from a YouTube video that this shape of person might potentially have this feature”.
Just absolutely unnavigable. This sort of thing is why I always just say yes to the first person who asks me out, even if other people are side eyeing them. The only assumption I take in with me is “This person wants to date me at the moment, let’s see why”.
My last gf was in high school (over a decade ago) and despite being open to dating I’ve never made it happen. IVe tried meeting people at conventions and other more nerdy events but because of my shyness and awkwardness I always leave without making any connections. I joined tinder recently to try to get myself out there but I’m just realizing how uninteresting I am and unattractive I feel next to these people. Even the few matches I get leave me on read. I feel like I’m failing at a basic part of being a person and it aucks. I don’t know how anyone else does this and I feel like something is wrong with me. I’ve started to accept that maybe I’m just not meant to find someone. My mom never got married, my aunts marriage fell apart. My cousin is single. Maybe I’m just not meant to find love and settle down.
But I want to…I’m nearing the end of my 20s, nearly as old as my mom was when she had me and I’m starting to think it’ll never happen for me.
There are absolutely tons of women who prefer tall guys. And that sucks for short guys. I am not making light of this.
Many hetero women say crappy stuff about not dating shorter men (much the way that hetero men say crappy stuff about not dating fatter women). It blows — perfectly hot men feel totally unattractive, and women miss out on all the rad shorties out there.
But luckily, there are still women who haven’t fallen for this media blitz, and who like short men equally-or-more than tall men. Just gotta find us.
I am not underestimating that this is hard! And I really think that, after talking fatphobia, short/tall should be the next conquest of body positivity.
Just trying to give a little hope out there that we ain’t nobody.
It’s extremely funny to try and call the argument of “listen to people rather than trust what you see on the internet” and then use what you see online and on dating apps to pass judgement on someone for their insecurities and make assumptions about their experiences.
Yeah it’s kind of a trend I’ve noticed. It’s sorta my issue with the “us vs them” Where people who want to be more accepting and tolerant but do so by employing the same rhetoric that they’re preaching against, just aimed elsewhere. I feel like you gotta examine the toxic behavior that
Perpetuates these things than finding one group of people to blame. (Especially if that group of people didn’t choose to be part of said group/were born that way)
Men are sorta the bad guys in the social hierarchy so it’s easier to blame every bad thing on ya, and a lotta shitty stuff is our fault. But I don’t like when people go through hoops to act like every negative behavior or feeling or emotion is perpetuated solely by men, especially when people have firsthand experience with it from women or other genders. It can be frustrating and alienating for people with these complexes to have people completely blow off their feelings. Or worse, blame them for their experience. I feel like it discourages people from talking about their issues and that’s not good.
Sorry for the rant I just don’t like that sorta thing.
“Joyce Performs a Masturbation and Definitely Should Not Feel Bad About It Later But Probably Will Until She Overcomes The Religious Stigmas Of Her Upbringing,” by David Willis and Chuck Tingle.
Welp, guess we can put to bed whether Joyce reciprocates, LOL. That “scale him like a mountain” comment may be the closest she’s ever gotten to admitting that Joyce Brown May Indeed Want To Fuck.
Good choice making it so Joyce fixates on something sexual about Joe so it ramps up Dorothy’s paranoia about Joyce just being used for sex, it’s super smotth.
Dorothy has definitely gotten used to Joyce always wanting her company, now that there’s someone she’s shoewing romantic interest in I don’t think she’s going to handle it well not always being Joyce’s priority.
Maybe that’s how others act when they’re jealous, but as a person who struggled with jealousy, anger (which is what I read in that look) was not my personal experience.
Jealousy just made me feel sad and insecure.
But that’s just me and I don’t dare claim that everyone acts like me.
She’s already been well into treating Joyce like a child territory on the birth control issue going so far as to say that everyone wouldn’t ‘have’ to Intrude so much on Joyce’s privacy if she would only ‘let them help her make adult decisions’ I fear her dating Joe is only going to make Dorothy double down on that mindset.
It was sarcasm. I thought that was obvious what with the 10 plus years of history of the character and her sexual repression being a key part of that history. But also who am I to contradict what a person wants to identify as even if it’s clearly very much a denial of the truth?
Okay Dorothy being mad at Joe because she thought he’d “use” Joyce and then move on was one thing, but her glaring at Joyce over it is kinda hard not to read as jealousy.
It’s especially telling that Dorothy didn’t have this glare when Joyce was dating a gay man with self loathing issues or trying to break up Jacob’s relationship but here she is attracted to a single man where there are no roadblocks to third base and all the sudden she’s glaring at Joyce in a ‘don’t you dare think that’ way.
Man I kinda wanna draw something naughty with Joyce and Joe but I honestly don’t know what. It feels like it’d be outta character for Joyce at this point in her life.
Joyce subsequently getting jealous of Captain Julia Gray for stealing Joe. She’s probably great at sex too. And incredibly confident. How can Joyce hope to compete with Space Force Captain Julia Gray?
Doesn’t even have to have Joe in it. Just Joyce in mountaineering gear, but no other clothing, and Dotty telling her “You’re not going out like that!”. “But moooooooom!”
Doesn’t help that I’m also just super busy so anytime I draw something it just feels like I’m taking time away from a lotta other shit I should be drawing.
Also unrelated but I’m thinking of making a site for the Walky/Billie nsfw comic thing once I start finishing pages….
Mostly just cuz I like the idea of having a comment section and seeing people’s reactions to the pages.
Hehe, I knew Joyce was almost certainly into Joe, but it’s kind of funny how she can maintain a game face with him, but it crumbles the second she’s not in the driver’s seat. It’s very cute.
Wasn’t she also like that with Jacob? All flirty and confident around him. Sure, she had this illusion of getting him together with Sarah back then, but I think it might be her talent to be (or appear) relaxed around boys she likes.
Joyce was also pretty melty around Ethan. And had to avert her eyes when she saw Joe in his boxers.
Honestly I think part of it is just pent-up libido. If/when she finally masturbates (and weaned herself off the shame) she’d probably be at normal levels of horny (well, for a teenager).
Joyce, just turn around, go grab his hand, and drag him back to his room. Danny and Sal will offer you fistbumps and privacy. You don’t even have to go right for the dangus, you can just make out like it’s the apocalypse.
Some of the takes on the Dorothy/Joe/Joyce interaction (past several comics, including this one) have been wild…
First off, they’re all close members of the same friend-group, and as such relational standings are both public (within the group), and directly affect each member. Not only do they have a right to have and express their opinions (within limits), they genuinely have a responsibility to their friends to ‘check out’ their relationships and gauge whether they feel sincere and healthy *and report their views* to the party involved.
Seriously, it has always been part of relationship culture for people to have unaffiliated friends scope out the individual, very early in the relationship, and this is healthy, because the person might very easily miss flaws.
Second off, Dorothy isn’t wildly out of bounds at being irritated/annoyed at Joyce, her friend who repeatedly shamed her for any reference/allusion to sexual content, being wildly horny on main (and to be clear, Joyce is, and has been transparently horny on main). In fact, it would be weird if she were not somewhat annoyed by it.
So just consider how many times Dorothy has had to be forgiving of essentially “you’re a slut and going to hell!” From Joyce, and extrapolate from that how absolutely infuriating it would be to have her suddenly gushing about wanting to mount (Joe).
People fail to live up to their own standards all the time. Her commitment to that is compromised by really not liking Joe and also probably by riding real close to the edge of burnout with the demands she places on herself.
Dorothy didn’t get angry like that when Joyce was visably horney for Jacob while she was angling to end his relationship ( think it was around that time Dorothy promised Joyce she would never judge her for having natural desires) so I really don’t buy that this is Dorothy being angry at past Joyce’s behavior.
And if she is, I’m excited about the eventual blow out between her and Joyce. It’s always more fun when they talk (or fight) directly about this stuff 🙂
She needs to replay Jennifer’s last conversation with her and take it to heart. Joyce wants some non mom company but Dorothy’s reaction was seemingly to double down as if to convince herself that Joyce would never not want her company.
Dorothy was the girlfriend of Joe’s best friend in high school.
How many times do you think she’s heard female classmates gush about what a kind, sensitive hunk Joe is? Girls that would go on to get bedded by him and then set aside by the douchebag that he used to be?
That’s what I’m seeing in Dorothy’s eyes here. It’s not anger or judgement, its annoyance. It’s “ugh, not this again”. Particularly since Joyce isn’t expressing anything new on that frame. Not about how Joe’s turning a corner or is really sensitive now or stuff, just “he sexy and I wanna fuck him so bad”.
Not saying Dorothy doesnt have reason to be weary of Joe but turning that into an angly look at Joyce in unwarranted. I personally do see anger and judgment in Dorothy’s expressions ( especially panel 5) because this is similar to her other angery reactions we have seen from previous strips and Jennifer herself spelled it out for joyce at the clinic that Dorothy can be quite judgmental to the point where its wearing Joyce out so it’s not out of character for Dorothy to be angry and judgmental. Especially when it’s been established that anger regarding joyce is a thing with Dorothy. Dorothy certainly might tell herself that her anger and judgment is only about Joe but her own behavior is part of a pattern towards joyce that isn’t really about Joe so much as Joyce changing in a way Dorothy doesn’t like.
My take on anger is from her expression matching instances were she is cannon angry like her last encounter with Jennifer. Her expressions here seem more extreme then her typical annoyed expression.
So Joe completely changed the moment he entered college? ‘cos he hasn’t been projecting “kind, sensitive” to anyone but Joyce, and that in secret.
I really think that Joe has been the used one in the pairings we’ve seen. Roz made him a prop in a political hatchet job — the sex was just a nice side benefit. Malaya pounced out of the blue and kicked him out when she’d got what she wanted. (We really don’t know much about Penny except that it probably happened.)
Every other attempt we’ve seen has been:
[Joe] You’re interesting.
[some female] Your’e sooo not.
[Joe] Okay.
I do think that the issue goes back to high school, but I think it’s something else, and probably more immediately personal.
This remains what I find really frustrating about the presentation of Joe, especially earlier on.
Other than his first date with Joyce, which foundered on her being even more repressed than he expected (and on Mike’s fists), every attempt he’s made to hit on anyone has been ridiculously clumsy – and generally played for comedy and angry reactions by the women (see Sarah and Rachel particularly.) The only successful cases we know were either explicitly or very liked initiated by the women.
Yet we still are given the impression that it does work regularly. Some of that could just be his pretense, but we did learn recently that Danny’s still getting sexiled fairly often.
Makes it really hard to get a good read on Joe.
I want Dorothy to get extremely weird and controlling, for Joyce to go bang Joe out of rebellion against Dorothy’s ‘mothering’ tendencies, and then everyone talks about their feelings and makes up once Joyce FINALLY gets some.
I’m honestly not sure why Dorothy is so upset. Joyce isn’t even expressing a romantic crush here, she’s just expressing carnal interest. That should be reassuring because it shows that Joyce isn’t being suckered in thinking that Joe is capable of love (since Dorothy is sure that he isn’t).
I actually am starting to believe the jealousy theory at this point. if not romantic, though I really wish it would be romantic, it could be friendship jealousy that Joyce is so obsessed with someone other than her at a time when Dorothy is making sacrifices to be around Joyce.
Now that we’ve seen(but not Joyce) that Dorothy is feeling so irritated by Joyce, I wonder if she’ll let it fester or do the smart thing and talk about it with someone before discussing her problems with Joyce
Cause if she doesn’t do the smart thing, that’ll be an interesting change of pace
One more piece of evidence to the “Dorothy has feelings for Joyce” theory
I wonder if something more specific and personal happened between Dorothy and Joe, beyond the normal Joe stuff, that’s making her this angry? If it was just worrying about Joe hurting Joyce, I don’t think she’d be mad at Joyce too. This looks like she’s mad at the idea that Joyce can see good things in Joe.
I think Joe would balk because he’s afraid of reverting to type. He might actually walk away if she presses him.
Joyce is afraid of being out of control. She will likely wait until she can be the master of her emotions. I think she will find her own reasons for the inhibitions that she decides to keep.
Kinda confused by all the “I can’t believe Dorothy is mad at Joyce for being horny” comments because that’s not what’s happening at all? Joyce is doing the exact dumb thing she was doing for Jacob, where she’s pretending she’s not a sexual being and never has dirty thoughts EVER when she was obviously one second away from humping Jacob’s leg, and if you remember Dorothy urged Joyce to be more honest with her feelings and have a healthier relationship with sex. Which Joyce is definitely not doing right now with Joe. So Dorothy is annoyed. Yeah maybe more so than usual because it’s JOE but still…the problem is not “How dare Joyce have a libido” it’s “why can’t she be fucking honest, does she think anyone buys this bs, she doesn’t even have God as an excuse anymore” etc
On topic: I’m astonished about Dorothy’s reaction here. It doesn’t quite make sense given how she’s presented herself in the past.
This is not concern for a friend. It started with disbelief and I’m not quite sure where it ends. Not a comfortable feeling, that’s for sure.
Can it be she herself feels attraction to Joe but was wise enough to never act on it bc she knows he has no interest in relationships (that’s still her knowledge of the situation even if Joe himself might be thinking about changing that).
I suspect dorothy unconciously buyinh into Becky treating Joyce’s attention like a prize to be won combined with Dorothy’s own tenancies to mom manage her friends has left her less tolerant towards Joyce and Joe the she might have otherwise been.
She’s wrong, but he’s done his best to give off that image and no one has even tried to let her know he’s changed.
Joyce’s response here is calibrated to show “I’m ignoring any warning signs because I’m infatuated/horny.”
Joyce’s got top-energy imo
like idk- speaking as a fellow autie, and given her personal history and personality, I can see her feeling most comfortable in the bedroom when in full control, yanno?
And she clearly enjoys the power she’s got over Joe currently(⸝⸝⸝¬᎑¬⸝⸝⸝)
but then again I could also see her totally floundering due to her inexperience and personal history
Dorothy is misreading the situation, but it’s not unreasonable. Joe has been the kind of man to have casual sex, not long-term relationships, and Joyce still does not appear to be the kind of woman who can separate lust from love, and she’s still a prude with a lot of sexual shame in her. She’d be hurt if Joe had sex with her and then lost interest. Dorothy is just as skeptical of Joe’s ability to change his womanizing ways as Joe is skeptical of his father’s ability to remain faithful to Amber’s mom.
It looks like Dorothy is under some stress and that it makes her more irritable than we’ve known her to be. It may be Yale related. Whatever it is, I expect we’ll find out soon enough. If it leads to Dorothy overreacting to Joyce’s and Joe’s budding romance, I’m sure she will follow that up with some apology notes. This is Dorothy, she’s not gonna do anything really bad.
Personally, I suspect Dorothy doesn’t really want to go to Yale anymore. She wants to want to go to Yale, but it’s not the same thing. She likes it here, she likes her friends, and it may be the first time she had such close friends. I bet after a lot of soul-searching she decides to stay here and not go to Yale after all.
You know, something else to consider in this situation is that Dorothy is getting closer to transferring out. Part of her is probably worried about Joyce when she’s gone and that’s adding to her stress
I wonder if Dorothy’s reaction would be the same if the boy was not Joe but anyone else. I just can’t understand if she’s jealous and wants Joyce for herself or if she’s really upset to see a friend joyfully go in the mouth of the wolf.
I think because its Joe. And she knows what sort of person Joe is, or at least used to be. I don’t think Dorothy has been privy to the changes in his character as of late.
I’m of two minds on Dorothy. On the one hand she’s clearly trying on the Mom pants: confronting Joe, refusing to entertain any response he gave, and now the smoldering looks in response to Joyce’s clear sexual attraction to Joe. It’s not her place to cockblock this particular ship, but her face suggests this is her intent. And though she’s just smart enough to pull it off, she’s just emotionally clueless enough to be unable to foresee the consequences of her purported actions.
ON THE OTHER HAND: I knew a guy in the Navy who reminded me a lot of Joe. He was handsome, had curly black hair, bright steel-grey eyes, and muscles for days. He wasn’t particularly tall—5’9” or 5’10”, I believe, but he was gorgeous. In fact, the crew of my sub called this young electrician’s mate “Petty Officer Gorgeous” (sailors are weird like that). He also dressed well out of uniform, and he had a remarkable ability to find exactly the right things to say to get and keep the attention of any young woman he met. I’d heard a dozen stories of his various exploits before the first time I saw him in action in a jazz club in Seattle. My first wife had just left me, and my division were taking me out to cheer me up. There at the club I saw Petty Officer Gorgeous walk in and saunter up to the bar. He stopped to say hi but quickly turned his interest to a pair of young women at the bar. I lost interest, but about fifteen minutes later, he strolls over with those two women on his arms. He introduced me to both of them as though he’s known them both for years, telling me a lot about both ladies in just a few minutes. He also told them a lot about me (I was surprised because I barely knew the guy. Hell, I didn’t even know his first name). Long story short: gss was hooked me up with one young lady and left with the other. I went out with the lady just a few times after that —nice lady, but we didn’t really mesh. On our second date, however, I learned that PO Gorgeous had taken the other young woman home, coerced her into sleeping with him, and dumped her. He also left her with an STD and a black eye. I connected with a JAG officer, and the two of us tried several times to get the woman to press rape charges, but she just couldn’t get past the shame.
Now, I have to wonder, if a friend of mine came to me and said she was seeing PO Gorgeous, would I be willing to entertain the possibility the he had changed? Probably not. Frankly, I hope the bastard eventually was killed by his own syphilis.
I think we’re supposed to call them STI’s, now. I got yelled at over it.
More to the point, we have full knowledge that Joe hasn’t done anything nearly as heinous as that PO, unless Willis wants to take this in a really dark and horrible direction. On top of that, if Dorothy really thought Joe had done something of that caliber, I imagine she’d treat him with more than baseline exhaustion and sarcasm. It’d be extremely irresponsible of her to knowingly allow her friends and hallmates to interact with a known rapist.
We have that knowledge. Dorothy doesn’t. While Dorothy certainly doesn’t know any examples of outright rape, it’s quite possible she’s knows stories of girls Joe had seduced and dumped. Ones he’d “fixed with his penis”.
He certainly has done his best to appear to be the guy you warn your friends about.
Yes, Joe reputation bad. Yes, Dorothy know Joe reputation bad. Yes, we know that she know that he know that she know. Irrelevant, all of it.
What I am saying is that Joe’s thankfully not as bad as Chaucer59’s “PO Gorgeous”, and if he were, and if Dorothy knew about that, she’d be much more aggressive toward him and much more insistent on warning the women around her about him. That is what my point is. Nothing beyond that.
Honestly, Dorothy breaking up with Walky has brought out the worst in her tendencies. Walky is someone who still needs to be woken up to a lot of things, and Dorothy helped him start to grow up. Problem is that without someone to balance out those tendencies or be an outlet…she’s projecting that onto Joyce and becoming increasingly alienated from everyone.
It doesn’t help that she’s already decided to change colleges and from personal experience, that sort of thing makes you cut off a lot of social bridges.
With regard to Joe…yes, she’s got history/baggage with Joe being a creep. The strip has made it clear Joe isn’t going to assault someone, and a lot of his ‘I bang often’ is posturing due to insecurity. However, that still colors Dorothy and *she doesn’t know he’s posturing*. She had to put up with his behavior through high school, she’s had to put up with him through first semester, and she witnessed him be creepy towards Joyce at the start.
Note, she does not know how Joyce and Joe got closer over the comic–at all. Why would she when Joyce has not told her, and Dorothy tries to not interact with Joe at all costs? She doesn’t know Joe helped Joyce with losing her faith, or her parent’s divorce, or that Joyce eventually felt safe enough to tell Joe about being drugged. Dorothy has no context for any of this, and that’s…going to cause problems.
She’s asking questions and then glaring when she hears the answers. That’s not what I call a conversation. Nor even a reasonable starter to a conversation, which would presumably be less “you’re making choices I don’t like” and more “I’ve known Joe a long time, are you sure you know what you’re doing”.
“Do you like _____” is a perfectly reasonable conversation starter. One that could easily lead into “I’ve known Joe a long time, are you sure you know what you’re doing.” I would say its even better than starting with your suggestion, because it allows Joyce to potentially clear up any misconceptions Dorothy might have about the situation before launching into a potentially unnecessary conversation.
After Dorothy’s question though, Joyce says no and immediately continues into a rambling contradiction of her initial statement before running away from the conversation that Dorothy was trying to start. We have no way of knowing how the conversation might’ve played out because Joyce ran away from it (probably more from horniness than discomfort with the conversation itself).
So Dorothy is somehow not talking to Joyce because she asked a question, waited for Joyce to finish answering, and was fled from?
Oh by all means she should talk to her more! But her glaring at joyce while asking these questions does not instill confidence in how this is going to go and her unfortunate pattern of babying joyce.
She asked one question and got a rambling contradictory response. You are correct. Glaring isn’t the best facial expression to wear, but it is far from a deal breaker. I’ve had many productive discussions that started with one party glaring at the other at the onset. I’m just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be getting angry at Dorothy for doing the very thing many of the comments said she should do.
To be fair, I don’t know how many, if any, of Dorothy’s detractors here were the same ones calling for her to talk to Joyce instead of Joe. It could be two completely separate sections of the comments for all I know, but I’m doubtful that there isn’t any overlap in the two groups.
it would be good communication for Dorothy to come out and say something along the lines of ‘I know Joe likes you and i don’t trust him, do you really feel safe around him?’ I think Dorothy knows Joyce well enough to know that Joyce’s rambling was a really a long yes, the million dollar questions how will she proceed from her with that answer.
I mean, she asked one question and is letting Joyce answer it the way Joyce has chosen to answer it. Good communication is ensuring the other people in the conversation are done with what they are saying before you speak. Maybe Dorothy can say what you are suggesting at a later time since I don’t think Joyce will want company while she *ahem* writes her comics. Dorothy clearly wasn’t given a chance to respond here though.
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Oh boy. Curious where this is gonna go.
Yeah, I’m confused about what she’s getting lost in.
Exactly, I mean. The general tenor is pretty clear.
His paaaants
I mean, she probably could
Turning Saints Into the Sea. It’s in the title 🙂
Another comic arc with a break that says “Five years later”.
Dorothy I don’t think That Is Your Business. While you have known Joe to be a bad person, you aren’t treating Joyce well by acting like she isn’t capable of making informed decisions.
For somebody who once assured Joyce that she would never judge her for her own desires she does look quite judgmental here.
Exactly! Why isn’t Dorothy being supportive of Joyce’s post-Christian sexual awakening?
Dorothy said she wouldn’t judge Joyce for her feelings of lust because they are perfectly normal to have, but she has judged her on the focus of said lust because of the circumstances in which she would be with them, as in Jacob (I can’t remember what she said regarding Ethan).
So it could be the situation, messing with Joe who is a capital H Horndog, that’s the issue and not the lust in and of itself.
It’s one thing to be weary of Joe, another thing to be angry and judgmentat at joyce herself simply for finding him attractive.
She also found Jacob attractive, and acted on it, which Dorothy was bothered by.
And based on Joe’s track record, if Joyce acts on her attraction with him, Dorothy won’t even have time to lecture her about all the reasons she feels that it’s wrong.
It’s not just the feeling that’s the problem for her.
And I speculate that she also doesn’t want to deal with the inevitable (in her opinion) fallout.
Her objection to the whole Jacob situation wasn’t “Joyce is attracted to this hunk of a man”, rather a lot more “…dudette, he’s got a girlfriend that he seems entirely happy with, trying to break them up like this is massively fucked up”.
You know, because it was massively fucked up.
Yes. The actions beyond just the lust.
Lusting after someone in a relationship isn’t a big deal.
Trying to steal said person from that relationship is.
Finding Joe attractive isn’t a big deal, but any actions beyond that would be a big deal in her eyes, and Joyce’s track record is to actually go after those she’s attracted to.
Going after someone she’s attracted to wouldn’t be a big deal on its own to Dorothy. At least I don’t think so.
It ties back to her perception of Joe as a serious creep. Nothing that came up during the lunch or that Joyce said afterwards gave her any reason to think Joe has changed. Now she sees that Joyce is crushing so hard she’s not likely to be clear headed about Joe’s character.
Dorothy says, and even means (at the time), a lot of things.
However, some of those things turn out to not be true.
She’s not judging her desires, just who she want’s to do those desires with
Except she has probably seen other girls get taken in by his appearance and charm without realizing Joe in the past was a dirtbag.
Even Dorothy must realize that Joyce knows all about Joes reputation by now
I wager that’s the source of the scowl. This feels a lot more like “dang it, Joyce, you should be smarter than this” than anything puritanical.
Little does she realize Joyce has seen through Joe’s façade.
I don’t think she even realises Joe has a façade. Like, she’s known him her whole life, and he’s never given her any reason to think that this isn’t just who he is.
I don’t think Joe thinks it isn’t who he is. Joyce has gotten through the facade and joe is desparately afraid he’s going to hurt her because he is No Good without realizing that that worry is precisely why he isn’t.
Probably. That worry doesn’t necessary prevent it.
He could, for example, be well intentioned but have poor impulse control. Leading to him cheating and then feeling guilty without ever really planning on it.
I don’t think that’s what he’ll be like, but it’s a reasonable concern for him.
And it would be understandable if she voiced her concerns in a calm non judgmental manner. “Look Joyce, I have known Joe for a while and I am worried that he might hurt you.”
She might well have been building up to that, but Joyce got all flustered thinking about scaling Mt. Joe and ran off.
Mt Joe would be a funny name for a real mountain and I’m disappointed nobody seems to have thought of naming one that.
Joyce just started blushing even harder at just the thought of “Mt. Joe”.
Dorothy isn’t overstepping in this particular comic. She’s asking Joyce how she feels.
Her behavior isn’t a problem. Even her concern in this specific case is not necessarily a problem, because it’s actually based on an assessment of how Joe has acted for as long as she’s known him, which is somewhat longer than Joyce has.
However, her expression as she asked suggests that her motivation for asking and her ability to handle her feelings are somewhat lacking.
Well, yes, she only has one line of dialogue in this particular comic and that one line isn’t bad. Nor is her having reservations about Joe in previous comics. I totally get that.
What chafes me and I think others is someone else trying to be the arbiter of what is or is not a good choice for you, and that definitely feels to me like the trajectory this conversation is going through.
Well-intentioned overbearingness on Dorothy’s part has sort of been the theme of this book, after all. I could be wrong of course but I think that this is part of the road to getting Dorothy some character development beyond just her academic ambitions/woes.
Keep in mind, for the whole comic, Joyce has been implying all the relationship things she wants to do to, with, do with, Dorothy. And now, single for how long?, Dottie has kinda gotten into the idea that maybe… Then suddenly, a wild Joe appears. And, he’s sniffing around HER Joyce!
The fact that J&J have been orbiting each other for also the whole comic has escaped Dottie. Just a little.
I know a lot of y’all think Dorothy’s opening up to the idea of not being a 0 on the scale anymore, and she has already stated in conversation with Joyce that sexuality is fluid when Joyce tried to unalive herself via Ruth by commenting on her being with Jason, but I just don’t see it.
It just comes off as wishful thinking to me, but I am prepared to admit I’m wrong if it ever comes up.
I’m seeing it more as Dotty’s trying to step into the “Cool mom” shoes, and being blissfully unaware of how stereotypically degrading she is towards Joyce’s ability to be a grown ass woman. First though “Poor baby christian doesn’t know how Real World” Then through “Poor baby autistic doesn’t know how Real World”
She’s a “I will be the savior” politician.
I really hate that kind of politician.
Then again, I’d hate for a friend of mine to try to mom me, like really cheeze me off. And Joyce seems to, mostly, appreciate that side of Dotty. What rebellion I’ve seen so far have seemed more like mom-teenage daughter than a disagreement between friends.
I’m seeing it more as Dorothy mostly just being bewildered that Joyce — Joyce who hired Mike to punch Joe, Joyce who found being a 0 on the Do List to be a badge of honour — Joyce — is attracted to Joe. And, yes, there’s a questioning of Joyce’s judgement in there — because she questions the judgement of any woman who’s attracted to Joe, but up til now this has mostly been people she didn’t care about.
Honestly, has Dorothy actually seen anyone being attracted to Joe? She knows about Roz, of course, but that’s all I can think of. And that was after the fact.
I think that fits her characterization a lot better. The bi/lesbian awakening angle feels like the expectations of people raised on fandom ships rather than something that comes organically out of the character as a whole person.
I agree that this gives Mom Vibes more than jealous vibes.
Mom vibes, yes. But also pretty standard women look out for each other when it comes to the local creeps vibes.
If everybody thought that nobody else’s business was theirs, every member of the human race would die alone and we would be gone within one generation.
I fail to see the problem with this.
If we all died, you wouldn’t have a place to morally scrutinise webcomic characters. What kind of a future is that?
Inconceivable.
I don’t have anything interesting to add. I just saw a lotta replies to this post and I wanted to be one of them.
One of us! One of us!
Resistance is futile.
Asking “do you like joe?” and watching a virgin implode from the mere existence of a hormone does not seem like wrong behavior on Dorothy’s part. Is that just me?
Everyone getting in Dorothy’s face because she’s angry. Dorothy hasn’t expressed _why_ she’s angry, and it’s entirely possible that she’s angry at the situation and the trainwreck she perceives, but isn’t mad a Joyce. i.e. “Mad” and “Joyce is present” isn’t the same as being mad *at* Joyce.
Oh yeah!!!! Let’s science this again!!!! 😎😈
Somewhere, Dina’s ears perk up without knowing why.
“On top of Mt. Joe-ky – all covered with…Joyce.”
mountain
(not to scale)
This is an amazing joke. A+
You go Joyce. Write those comics. Slipshine will be waiting for you when they’re done.
Absolutely, completely, and totally HERE for the Joyce-written comics of the Amorous Adventures of (the not-at-all-autobiographical character) Julia Gray! Coming SOON to Slipshine!
Can you scowl a little more there Dorothy? That being said, in her position I would be annoyed and angry so I can’t say much.
I mean I’m not sure Dorothy has much justification for being angry at Joyce for her own feelings here. Dorothy asked a question and got her response. I know she’s got good reason to be suspicious of Joe but 5th panel in particular looks like it’s Joyce she is angry and judgemental at for finding Joe attractive.
I think Dorothy is mad and disappointed that Joyce would like a guy like Joe knowing how big a horndog he is (from Dorothy’s perspective).
As the mom friend, she wants Joyce to do and be “better” (and probably doesn’t want to deal with the “inevitable” fallout when Joyce’s fire sexual relationship goes to 💩).
I think it’s telling she didn’t give Joyce this level of judgment when dating Ethan a gay man or trying to break up a relationship but interest in a single man with no sexual shame is making Dorothy glare? Also she had this same reaction to Joyce not immediately thanking her for art supplies and towards Jennifer helping Joyce so I don’t think this is only about Joe being horny. It’s equally if not more about Dorothy being possessive now that the object of Joyce’s desire is someone who has a real chance at being her first real relationship.
Except Dorothy doesn’t come off as having romantic or sexual feelings for Joyce to me, so what’s there to be possessive of.
Becky or Sarah would be more of a target if that’s the case.
As for Jennifer, she said why she was mad, that she didn’t like the insinuation that she wanted to take credit for helping/didn’t like someone else helping and also didn’t like how Jennifer would show up but wouldn’t help out after setting stuff in motion.
The motivations are different.
Dorothy’s possessiveness of joyce doesn’t have to be romantic or sexual, as the mom friend she tends to micromanage others lives regardless and get frustrated when things dont go as she had planned. She had this same reaction to joyce skipping class with liz, tracking her down to regsin control. While Jennifer being smug about her one time helping was annoying, as Jennifer herself noted Dorothy’s outburst was way out of proportion to the offense. In all cases Dorothys anger revolves around joyce changing her routine in some way be it agreeing to go with Jennifer to a walk in instead of letting Dorothy book for her, skipping class once to hang out with someone else or favoring somebody else’s attention over her own (joe). Even if not romantic I think Jennifer was on to something when she suggested that Dorothy thinks of Joyce as ‘hers.’
Except she hasn’t been shown to favor Joe’s attention over Dorothy’s.
And skipping class was something completely out of character for Joyce, not to mention continuing as expected would mean hanging out with the new couple solo, so she could stay the course, do something else, or check in on her friend who was behaving abnormally (remember that everyone was shocked by Joyce skipping class, not just Dorothy).
I’d put it on her thinking Joyce isn’t adult enough to make her own decisions before I’d put it on possessiveness. That’s just as bad, though.
Mom style possessiveness can actually go hand in hand with the mentality that somebody isn’t adult enough to make their own decisions though. Dorothy knew joyce was skipping to hang out with Sarah and her family so there really wasnt any valid concern except that joyce was making a deciesion on her own that dorothy didn’t like, becky might have been the most vocal but Dorothy agreed with and enabled her, plus a quick message to joyce and Sarah would have been fine for checking in, they instead tracked her down like she was a runnaway child. Joyce hasn’t actually been favoring anybody yet but Dorothy is used to being Joyce’s closest friend alongside Becky and isn’t used to having a third person to compete with.
With Ethan and Jacob, Dorothy was disappointed in Joyce’s moral decisions. Here, Joyce isn’t doing anything immoral, and she knows Joe, she’s not doing poor judgement from being naive. I think Dorothy’s mad because Joyce likes Joe as a person and Dorothy doesn’t. Joyce isn’t deferring to her judgment, and Dorothy’s jealous of her influence over her. The “our good friend Joe” part is why she’s angry, Joyce being super horny for him is salt in the wound.
Anyways, remember how when Dorothy was seeing Walky and Joyce kept saying she was too good for him? Feels like Dorothy’s not going to be much different.
It seems clear me that Dorothy is under a lot of academic stress and hasn’t healed from the kidnapping either. She’s been on her last nerve for a bit. She’s had high expectations for herself and for her friends that are being disappointed. This crabbiness is probably better than pretending everything is fine until she explodes.
She didn’t know about Joyce dating Ethan (or about him being gay, one of the two) until after the fact. It was a thing that Joyce was worried about what Dorothy would say if she found out.
There was also a whole thing with Dorothy trying to talk Joyce out of going after Jacob once she found out about it. After the lunch with Raidah.
She actually did know about Ethan being gay I recall she had a breif discussion with walky about it but never confronted Joyc e. With Jacob yes she did attempt to talk Joyce out if it but she wasn’t giving Joyce the same level of anger/ disapproval as she is here. It was more just basic disappointment.
I’d have to check the sequence of events, but I’m pretty sure it was a plot point that she didn’t know about Ethan while they were dating. Digging back, that talk with Walky was right after she’d figured it out and right after Joyce had broken up with Ethan following the freakout in class.
I don’t get where people are seeing anger in Dorothy’s eyes here. That’s much more of an Annoyed scowl than anything to me, a “don’t you know what Joe is, dang it” type expression. She just seems more annoyed that Joyce should know better than this, that she should know what sort of person Joe is.
Of course, we know that Joyce has a more secret line on who Joe actually is now, because Dorothy’s had little to do with him over the last six months (which given the massive jackass that he was at the start of the school year, is entirely valid). But all she’s hearing from Joyce here is what a hunk Joe is, probably something she heard plenty of times back in High School from his eventual victims…
The eyebrow’s in panel 5 seem too slanted for mere annoyance to me, but that could just be the angle of her face being partially turned towards us.
It reeks of “Oh great, another mess **I’ll** have to clean up because a friend can’t be responsible for themselves”
that Much Put Upon Friend who intentionally makes everything their business to “Fix” because God Forfend anyone else has agency.
Yes, it would have been ideal for Joyce to explain to Dorothy about the months of character development and conversation she’s had with Joe. Dorothy knows nothing about any of that!
Exactly. No one’s given Dorothy any reason to think this isn’t going to be just Joe scoring another conquest. Joyce talking in today’s terms isn’t giving her less reason to worry.
Dorothy asked a question and got a response, but the response wasn’t the one she wanted it to be and so therefore it must be corrected.
So does Joyce have a size kink or is it just that dudes are generally taller than her? This was kind of a thing with her talking about Jacob too.
I think it’s a both and here.
I don’t think its a kink to find classically attractive people appealing
It’s definitely something she’s paid attention to — all of her romantic interests have cleared 6 feet, and she was verbally very keen on Jacob’s beefiness as well. Homegirl’s got a type, if nothing else.
Kinda funny considering her romantic interests in the Walkyverse were very much the opposite of that.
Everyone’s got a type. Her type is BIIIIIIIG.
Well, Sarah also said she wouldn’t get with Walky because he’s short. Maybe they have more in common than expected.
Short guys do have a bad trend of getting shafted in favor of taller guys. Luckily Walky is an exception cuz he has dated more girls in 4 months than I have in 28 years.
Walky’s not even short. He’s the same height as most of the girls, and, y’now, his twin sister. It’s probably more how he carries himself.
If hes the same height as most of the girls then that means he is short, being that hes a boy.
He’s canonically 4’10”, Willis said so in an interview with GamesRadar.
Pretty sure Amber isn’t six inches taller than Walky, and she’s canonically 5’4″
You and I live in very different versions of reality.
We do? Quick, what color is the sky typically in your universe? We must exploit this connection for science!
Looked back at a couple strips and Walky seems to be about 1/3 of a head taller than Lucy. About equal height to Billie and slightly shorter than Danny.
So he’s probably a tiny bit short, but not tiny himself. Sal is the same height and carries herself tall.
You understand that the median height difference between a man and a woman is (greater than) 6″? A guy can be genuinely ‘short’ and yet *still* be taller than a girl who is genuinely ‘tall’.
And this isn’t even getting into our cultural framing of ‘men must be 6′ tall or else they are short’.
Danny’s definitely not 6′ and I would not call him short.
Nobody likes small guys 😭🤏
😳
I actively prefer small guys. 😍👍
While some bodies are in current fashion in media (in order to sell us stuff), various actual people are attracted to all kinds of various body types, including whatever you’ve got going on.
Source: Other men on the internet.
Maybe talk to, listen to, and believe women when they repeat over and over again how little most of us care about your height.
The majority of men complaining they were passed over for height also have fatphobic things in their profiles or other “I’m a major asshole” flags so maybe consider that they aren’t the best source for the opinions of and entire gender they actively dislike.
Yeah uh…Women have also said “I don’t wanna date a guy shorter than me/I don’t wanna date a guy under 6 feet” to me. I don’t care for this zero sum game where the idea is that EVERY guy who has a complex about being short only got it from other guys and NOT from women perpetuating this. It’s not just in our heads. It’s not that every woman prefers a tall guy in the world, obviously, but it’s happened enough to be a pattern.
That’s like saying “I know plenty of guys who don’t care about or don’t mind overweight women so therefore there isn’t a reason to feel bothered. Why not believe men when we tell you we don’t actually care about your weight? Because for every one of us there’s one that does and that’s the generational trauma you gotta deal with. Men aren’t the only people perpetuating it. So maybe consider that before you shift the blame ENTIRELY to fatphobic men who are assholes and discounting some people’s actual experience.
Dating seems absolutely impenetrable to me. Everyone has all these expectations of what other people expect, and all of it seems to disqualify a person from consideration before a one-on-one conversation has even been conceptualised. Too many layers of convoluted borderline paranoia to untangle just to maybe have a brief interaction that may or may not result in a tentative first date, which may or may not even go well, and even if it does, may not lead to any sort of connection afterward, and even if THAT happens, it may not last any appreciable amount of time.
And all of those layers start with the one above the one on the surface, essentially the packaging, which can be anything from “this person is shaped like this, and the others I’ve seen in this shape had this, this, and this attached so this one probably does too”, to “my friend’s cousin’s coworker said they read a Twitter thread where one of the replies mentioned that they heard from a YouTube video that this shape of person might potentially have this feature”.
Just absolutely unnavigable. This sort of thing is why I always just say yes to the first person who asks me out, even if other people are side eyeing them. The only assumption I take in with me is “This person wants to date me at the moment, let’s see why”.
My last gf was in high school (over a decade ago) and despite being open to dating I’ve never made it happen. IVe tried meeting people at conventions and other more nerdy events but because of my shyness and awkwardness I always leave without making any connections. I joined tinder recently to try to get myself out there but I’m just realizing how uninteresting I am and unattractive I feel next to these people. Even the few matches I get leave me on read. I feel like I’m failing at a basic part of being a person and it aucks. I don’t know how anyone else does this and I feel like something is wrong with me. I’ve started to accept that maybe I’m just not meant to find someone. My mom never got married, my aunts marriage fell apart. My cousin is single. Maybe I’m just not meant to find love and settle down.
But I want to…I’m nearing the end of my 20s, nearly as old as my mom was when she had me and I’m starting to think it’ll never happen for me.
“I feel like I’m failing at a basic part of being a person and it sucks”
Yeah, I am quite familiar with the phenomena. It’s called neurodivergence.
Please know Yoto, that you are not alone. 🥹
There are absolutely tons of women who prefer tall guys. And that sucks for short guys. I am not making light of this.
Many hetero women say crappy stuff about not dating shorter men (much the way that hetero men say crappy stuff about not dating fatter women). It blows — perfectly hot men feel totally unattractive, and women miss out on all the rad shorties out there.
But luckily, there are still women who haven’t fallen for this media blitz, and who like short men equally-or-more than tall men. Just gotta find us.
I am not underestimating that this is hard! And I really think that, after talking fatphobia, short/tall should be the next conquest of body positivity.
Just trying to give a little hope out there that we ain’t nobody.
It’s extremely funny to try and call the argument of “listen to people rather than trust what you see on the internet” and then use what you see online and on dating apps to pass judgement on someone for their insecurities and make assumptions about their experiences.
Yeah it’s kind of a trend I’ve noticed. It’s sorta my issue with the “us vs them” Where people who want to be more accepting and tolerant but do so by employing the same rhetoric that they’re preaching against, just aimed elsewhere. I feel like you gotta examine the toxic behavior that
Perpetuates these things than finding one group of people to blame. (Especially if that group of people didn’t choose to be part of said group/were born that way)
Men are sorta the bad guys in the social hierarchy so it’s easier to blame every bad thing on ya, and a lotta shitty stuff is our fault. But I don’t like when people go through hoops to act like every negative behavior or feeling or emotion is perpetuated solely by men, especially when people have firsthand experience with it from women or other genders. It can be frustrating and alienating for people with these complexes to have people completely blow off their feelings. Or worse, blame them for their experience. I feel like it discourages people from talking about their issues and that’s not good.
Sorry for the rant I just don’t like that sorta thing.
“Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a God, but never without belief in a devil.”
— Eric Hoffer
Naughty comics!
“Joyce Brown Makes A Slipshine” XD
Joyce would never make a Slipshine!
…Her preferred network for porn distribution remains whiteboards.
either way, better start saving up for the subscription if you haven’t renewed it already 😛
“Joyce Performs a Masturbation and Definitely Should Not Feel Bad About It Later But Probably Will Until She Overcomes The Religious Stigmas Of Her Upbringing,” by David Willis and Chuck Tingle.
“Joyce Blows the Dorm Fuse Box: a Sibian Story.”
Blowing a fuse box? Sounds kinky, and dangerous.
gg joyce
Dorothy: “Of course you know, this means war.”
Is today the day that Joyce finally goes and buys a dildo/vibrator? Let’s find out.
Welp, guess we can put to bed whether Joyce reciprocates, LOL. That “scale him like a mountain” comment may be the closest she’s ever gotten to admitting that Joyce Brown May Indeed Want To Fuck.
put to bed you say
I mean she is blushing. It’s so obvious XD
Joyce would like to put Joe to bed.
If you know what I mean
Interesting dynamic.
Good choice making it so Joyce fixates on something sexual about Joe so it ramps up Dorothy’s paranoia about Joyce just being used for sex, it’s super smotth.
Yup, maximum dumbing, lol.
A feedback loop of dumbing.
If it generates more energy than it consumes, we might be on to something!
Someone get those fusion guys in here stat
Wow, Dorothy is actually jealous of Joyce liking a man.
Cool!
I guess she may not be a 0 on the scale.
Not even Becky was as bad as this, this is not a good look for Dorothy
Dorothy has definitely gotten used to Joyce always wanting her company, now that there’s someone she’s shoewing romantic interest in I don’t think she’s going to handle it well not always being Joyce’s priority.
The number of people happy to disregard someone’s explicitly stated sexuality is wild to me.
Completely misreading characters is pretty common around here.
Plenty of other reasons for Dorothy to not be happy with this situation. I”ve got no idea why some keep jumping to jealousy.
Considering the number of people hoping for ‘Bi Joyce’? Yeah, no surprise.
There are at least a lot more hints towards bi Joyce than bi Dorothy.
I feel like she wants to be an ally while struggling to accept herself
Yeah I dunno this still reads as jealousy to me!
Maybe that’s how others act when they’re jealous, but as a person who struggled with jealousy, anger (which is what I read in that look) was not my personal experience.
Jealousy just made me feel sad and insecure.
But that’s just me and I don’t dare claim that everyone acts like me.
Feel like Dorothy is going to run headlong into the issue of treating Joyce like a child when she’s actually another adult.
Me too. -_-
Yup we’re gonna have to talk about it
She’s already been well into treating Joyce like a child territory on the birth control issue going so far as to say that everyone wouldn’t ‘have’ to Intrude so much on Joyce’s privacy if she would only ‘let them help her make adult decisions’ I fear her dating Joe is only going to make Dorothy double down on that mindset.
Now in my mind I can see Dorothy catching Joyce “doing her homework” and Joyce screaming “omg mom! knock”!”
Joyce asexual confirmed! Also how do I get on the short list for her smut literature? Amber got the rub. Drop the deets.
that read less as “asexual” and more “becoming aware of urges that were repressed for religious reasons that no longer apply”
I know that asexuality comment should be sarcasm or irony, considering how horny we’ve seen her to be, but it doesn’t read like it to me.
It was sarcasm. I thought that was obvious what with the 10 plus years of history of the character and her sexual repression being a key part of that history. But also who am I to contradict what a person wants to identify as even if it’s clearly very much a denial of the truth?
Well you’re not Ruth, but Ruth actually did do a “lolnope” when Joyce tried claiming that she herself was asexual.
Wonder what Dorothy would think if she knew Joyce had watched Joes sex tape
Ok, I’m not gonna lie. “Scale him like a mountain” is getting me kinda hot and bothered.
Didn’t Sarah say something similar? Something about the man needing to be an obstacle course or some such?
She said that in regards to why she couldn’t get together with Walky, yeah.
Yea, I’m 6’2″, that also got me a little hot and bothered
Hope Dorothy remembers Joyce is an adult capable of making her own decisions regardless of what Dorothy might think about them
I suspect her reaction is going to be something other then that
Okay Dorothy being mad at Joe because she thought he’d “use” Joyce and then move on was one thing, but her glaring at Joyce over it is kinda hard not to read as jealousy.
It’s not jealousy, it’s judgment.
That’s even worse!
It’s especially telling that Dorothy didn’t have this glare when Joyce was dating a gay man with self loathing issues or trying to break up Jacob’s relationship but here she is attracted to a single man where there are no roadblocks to third base and all the sudden she’s glaring at Joyce in a ‘don’t you dare think that’ way.
third time’s a charm. Besides for Dotty Joe is roadblock himself like a mountain 😉
Like fire
Hellfire
This fire in my skin
This burning desire
Is turning me to sin
Man I kinda wanna draw something naughty with Joyce and Joe but I honestly don’t know what. It feels like it’d be outta character for Joyce at this point in her life.
You Joyce and Sarah leaving purple lipstick kiss marks all over Walky’s face and upper body.
You can do it!
I believe in you!
*you DREW Joyce and Sarah…
True…
but y’know…that was pretty self indulgent. Plus I based it on that one old roomies strip of Joyce applying lipstick…
Ok I’ll admit I just have a thing for lipstick and wanted an excuse to draw it. 😛
How about her masturbating to one of her own comics like Mary did in that one slipshine picture? 😛
Joe x Space Force Captain Julia Gray.
Joyce subsequently getting jealous of Captain Julia Gray for stealing Joe. She’s probably great at sex too. And incredibly confident. How can Joyce hope to compete with Space Force Captain Julia Gray?
You draw what feels right but I will say there’s an angle with Dorothy fighting over Joyce
Doesn’t even have to have Joe in it. Just Joyce in mountaineering gear, but no other clothing, and Dotty telling her “You’re not going out like that!”. “But moooooooom!”
The creative block is real shit, huh?
Doesn’t help that I’m also just super busy so anytime I draw something it just feels like I’m taking time away from a lotta other shit I should be drawing.
Hand-holdijng is always an option, I guess?
Joyce: I’ll be in my bunk.
[beat]
Writing comics! And not for any other reasons!
Don’t worry Joyce, I think you fooled Dorothy.
Also unrelated but I’m thinking of making a site for the Walky/Billie nsfw comic thing once I start finishing pages….
Mostly just cuz I like the idea of having a comment section and seeing people’s reactions to the pages.
That’s not a bad idea; I’d certainly enjoy having your art in a single spot to look at.
I would sub to a Patreon for that.
Well you’re in luck. I HAVE a patreon where I’ve been posting the WIP of the comic :P. Just search for Nottyart and your dream will come true.
Early Christmas! Thanks Yoto!
Hehe, I knew Joyce was almost certainly into Joe, but it’s kind of funny how she can maintain a game face with him, but it crumbles the second she’s not in the driver’s seat. It’s very cute.
Wasn’t she also like that with Jacob? All flirty and confident around him. Sure, she had this illusion of getting him together with Sarah back then, but I think it might be her talent to be (or appear) relaxed around boys she likes.
I don’t remember her falling apart quite to this extent in that arc…
Joyce was also pretty melty around Ethan. And had to avert her eyes when she saw Joe in his boxers.
Honestly I think part of it is just pent-up libido. If/when she finally masturbates (and weaned herself off the shame) she’d probably be at normal levels of horny (well, for a teenager).
Joyce, just turn around, go grab his hand, and drag him back to his room. Danny and Sal will offer you fistbumps and privacy. You don’t even have to go right for the dangus, you can just make out like it’s the apocalypse.
I’m probably biased but I think making out is the fun part!
It’s all fun.
Some of the takes on the Dorothy/Joe/Joyce interaction (past several comics, including this one) have been wild…
First off, they’re all close members of the same friend-group, and as such relational standings are both public (within the group), and directly affect each member. Not only do they have a right to have and express their opinions (within limits), they genuinely have a responsibility to their friends to ‘check out’ their relationships and gauge whether they feel sincere and healthy *and report their views* to the party involved.
Seriously, it has always been part of relationship culture for people to have unaffiliated friends scope out the individual, very early in the relationship, and this is healthy, because the person might very easily miss flaws.
Second off, Dorothy isn’t wildly out of bounds at being irritated/annoyed at Joyce, her friend who repeatedly shamed her for any reference/allusion to sexual content, being wildly horny on main (and to be clear, Joyce is, and has been transparently horny on main). In fact, it would be weird if she were not somewhat annoyed by it.
So just consider how many times Dorothy has had to be forgiving of essentially “you’re a slut and going to hell!” From Joyce, and extrapolate from that how absolutely infuriating it would be to have her suddenly gushing about wanting to mount (Joe).
Then she shouldn’t have asked. It’s like popping a water balloon above your head and then complaining about getting wet, lol.
Also I dont remember when it happened but I’m pretty sure Dorothy has specifically said she wouldn’t judge Joyce on stuff like this in the past
People fail to live up to their own standards all the time. Her commitment to that is compromised by really not liking Joe and also probably by riding real close to the edge of burnout with the demands she places on herself.
Dorothy didn’t get angry like that when Joyce was visably horney for Jacob while she was angling to end his relationship ( think it was around that time Dorothy promised Joyce she would never judge her for having natural desires) so I really don’t buy that this is Dorothy being angry at past Joyce’s behavior.
Except Dorothy has been harping on Joyce to express herself more sexually over and over again. The moment Joyce does, Dorothy gets irritated?
Because it’s Joe. She clearly doesn’t trust Joe. I don’t think she’s mad at Joyce necessarily. Just wary and annoyed at the situation.
And if she is, I’m excited about the eventual blow out between her and Joyce. It’s always more fun when they talk (or fight) directly about this stuff 🙂
Agreed.
Amber and Joyce should start an erotic web comic at some point.
Don’t ask questions you don’t want to hear the answer to, Dorothy. That grouchy face is self-inflicted.
Seriously though, I genuinely believe these reactions of hers are coming from a good place, but she needs to dial it down a notch or two.
She needs to replay Jennifer’s last conversation with her and take it to heart. Joyce wants some non mom company but Dorothy’s reaction was seemingly to double down as if to convince herself that Joyce would never not want her company.
Dorothy was the girlfriend of Joe’s best friend in high school.
How many times do you think she’s heard female classmates gush about what a kind, sensitive hunk Joe is? Girls that would go on to get bedded by him and then set aside by the douchebag that he used to be?
That’s what I’m seeing in Dorothy’s eyes here. It’s not anger or judgement, its annoyance. It’s “ugh, not this again”. Particularly since Joyce isn’t expressing anything new on that frame. Not about how Joe’s turning a corner or is really sensitive now or stuff, just “he sexy and I wanna fuck him so bad”.
Not saying Dorothy doesnt have reason to be weary of Joe but turning that into an angly look at Joyce in unwarranted. I personally do see anger and judgment in Dorothy’s expressions ( especially panel 5) because this is similar to her other angery reactions we have seen from previous strips and Jennifer herself spelled it out for joyce at the clinic that Dorothy can be quite judgmental to the point where its wearing Joyce out so it’s not out of character for Dorothy to be angry and judgmental. Especially when it’s been established that anger regarding joyce is a thing with Dorothy. Dorothy certainly might tell herself that her anger and judgment is only about Joe but her own behavior is part of a pattern towards joyce that isn’t really about Joe so much as Joyce changing in a way Dorothy doesn’t like.
Only if you read her expression as “Angry” instead of “Annoyed”.
I’m personally reading it as the latter.
My take on anger is from her expression matching instances were she is cannon angry like her last encounter with Jennifer. Her expressions here seem more extreme then her typical annoyed expression.
So Joe completely changed the moment he entered college? ‘cos he hasn’t been projecting “kind, sensitive” to anyone but Joyce, and that in secret.
I really think that Joe has been the used one in the pairings we’ve seen. Roz made him a prop in a political hatchet job — the sex was just a nice side benefit. Malaya pounced out of the blue and kicked him out when she’d got what she wanted. (We really don’t know much about Penny except that it probably happened.)
Every other attempt we’ve seen has been:
[Joe] You’re interesting.
[some female] Your’e sooo not.
[Joe] Okay.
I do think that the issue goes back to high school, but I think it’s something else, and probably more immediately personal.
This remains what I find really frustrating about the presentation of Joe, especially earlier on.
Other than his first date with Joyce, which foundered on her being even more repressed than he expected (and on Mike’s fists), every attempt he’s made to hit on anyone has been ridiculously clumsy – and generally played for comedy and angry reactions by the women (see Sarah and Rachel particularly.) The only successful cases we know were either explicitly or very liked initiated by the women.
Yet we still are given the impression that it does work regularly. Some of that could just be his pretense, but we did learn recently that Danny’s still getting sexiled fairly often.
Makes it really hard to get a good read on Joe.
So what you’re saying is, Joe is Johnny Bravo with a 1% higher success rate. Those are your verbatim words and not a wild extrapolation on my part.
Hoo hah! *flex*
LET JOYCE BE HORNY
@Joyce @Dorothy @Joe
Joyce: I don’t even like men!
Becky: *vibrates into the vicinity*
In which Joyce discovers her sex drive.
Hopefully Joyce will at some point graduate from writing comics to “writing comics”
I love everything about this.
Falling out! Falling out! Falling out! DRAMA!!!!
I want Dorothy to get extremely weird and controlling, for Joyce to go bang Joe out of rebellion against Dorothy’s ‘mothering’ tendencies, and then everyone talks about their feelings and makes up once Joyce FINALLY gets some.
I wonder if Joyce is already making Slipshines… 😛
I’m honestly not sure why Dorothy is so upset. Joyce isn’t even expressing a romantic crush here, she’s just expressing carnal interest. That should be reassuring because it shows that Joyce isn’t being suckered in thinking that Joe is capable of love (since Dorothy is sure that he isn’t).
I actually am starting to believe the jealousy theory at this point. if not romantic, though I really wish it would be romantic, it could be friendship jealousy that Joyce is so obsessed with someone other than her at a time when Dorothy is making sacrifices to be around Joyce.
Yeah, right? Like, Dorothy has told Joyce she will talk to her about sexually, because Joyce were repressing herself.
That’s probably the most honestly horny Joyce has ever been, and Dorothy is really not approving her crush
Now that we’ve seen(but not Joyce) that Dorothy is feeling so irritated by Joyce, I wonder if she’ll let it fester or do the smart thing and talk about it with someone before discussing her problems with Joyce
Cause if she doesn’t do the smart thing, that’ll be an interesting change of pace
One more piece of evidence to the “Dorothy has feelings for Joyce” theory
I guess they will talk, because I’ve seen a preview by Willis. They look they’re arguing…
Mother does not approve.
Mother can go watch Matlock.
I wonder if something more specific and personal happened between Dorothy and Joe, beyond the normal Joe stuff, that’s making her this angry? If it was just worrying about Joe hurting Joyce, I don’t think she’d be mad at Joyce too. This looks like she’s mad at the idea that Joyce can see good things in Joe.
I see: the “Turning saints into the sea” thing will be Dorothy trying to cool Joyce down, like a nuclear reactor…
Dorothy KNOWS she’s crossing a boundary and she’s still doing it. I just want to see Joyce satisfy her mountain man lust. it’s cute.
I really hope that they don’t fuck. Not because I don’t like Joe and Joyce, but because it would really fit how they’re developing as characters.
I don’t think they will just yet.
I think Joe would balk because he’s afraid of reverting to type. He might actually walk away if she presses him.
Joyce is afraid of being out of control. She will likely wait until she can be the master of her emotions. I think she will find her own reasons for the inhibitions that she decides to keep.
I think that’s where his… encounter with Liz will come back into play. He’ll make damned sure Joyce isn’t just trying to prove something to herself.
Kinda confused by all the “I can’t believe Dorothy is mad at Joyce for being horny” comments because that’s not what’s happening at all? Joyce is doing the exact dumb thing she was doing for Jacob, where she’s pretending she’s not a sexual being and never has dirty thoughts EVER when she was obviously one second away from humping Jacob’s leg, and if you remember Dorothy urged Joyce to be more honest with her feelings and have a healthier relationship with sex. Which Joyce is definitely not doing right now with Joe. So Dorothy is annoyed. Yeah maybe more so than usual because it’s JOE but still…the problem is not “How dare Joyce have a libido” it’s “why can’t she be fucking honest, does she think anyone buys this bs, she doesn’t even have God as an excuse anymore” etc
And it also ties into “If she’s this horny for Joe, she’ll be easy prey for him.”
Why do I get ads of some German soccer star (retired) with his current girlfriend? Who cares?
On topic: I’m astonished about Dorothy’s reaction here. It doesn’t quite make sense given how she’s presented herself in the past.
This is not concern for a friend. It started with disbelief and I’m not quite sure where it ends. Not a comfortable feeling, that’s for sure.
Can it be she herself feels attraction to Joe but was wise enough to never act on it bc she knows he has no interest in relationships (that’s still her knowledge of the situation even if Joe himself might be thinking about changing that).
I suspect dorothy unconciously buyinh into Becky treating Joyce’s attention like a prize to be won combined with Dorothy’s own tenancies to mom manage her friends has left her less tolerant towards Joyce and Joe the she might have otherwise been.
Also she “knows” what Joe is like, and he is not suitable for her little girl. :p
She’s wrong, but he’s done his best to give off that image and no one has even tried to let her know he’s changed.
Joyce’s response here is calibrated to show “I’m ignoring any warning signs because I’m infatuated/horny.”
I hope they have an argument. They’re due for a real talk.
I hope Joyce finally requests a clear boundary regarding her prospective relationship like how Dorothy originally did regarding walky.
Joyce’s got top-energy imo
like idk- speaking as a fellow autie, and given her personal history and personality, I can see her feeling most comfortable in the bedroom when in full control, yanno?
And she clearly enjoys the power she’s got over Joe currently(⸝⸝⸝¬᎑¬⸝⸝⸝)
but then again I could also see her totally floundering due to her inexperience and personal history
That last panel feels especially autobiographical 😉
I must have missed the part where he was upgraded to “our good friend Joe”.
Dorothy is misreading the situation, but it’s not unreasonable. Joe has been the kind of man to have casual sex, not long-term relationships, and Joyce still does not appear to be the kind of woman who can separate lust from love, and she’s still a prude with a lot of sexual shame in her. She’d be hurt if Joe had sex with her and then lost interest. Dorothy is just as skeptical of Joe’s ability to change his womanizing ways as Joe is skeptical of his father’s ability to remain faithful to Amber’s mom.
It looks like Dorothy is under some stress and that it makes her more irritable than we’ve known her to be. It may be Yale related. Whatever it is, I expect we’ll find out soon enough. If it leads to Dorothy overreacting to Joyce’s and Joe’s budding romance, I’m sure she will follow that up with some apology notes. This is Dorothy, she’s not gonna do anything really bad.
Personally, I suspect Dorothy doesn’t really want to go to Yale anymore. She wants to want to go to Yale, but it’s not the same thing. She likes it here, she likes her friends, and it may be the first time she had such close friends. I bet after a lot of soul-searching she decides to stay here and not go to Yale after all.
You know, something else to consider in this situation is that Dorothy is getting closer to transferring out. Part of her is probably worried about Joyce when she’s gone and that’s adding to her stress
I want the remainder of strips this week to be just Joyce FURIOUSLY drawing smut for hours, like she was Sexphaestus at the Pornforge.
Whew! It got a little dicey there, Joyce, but I’m sure Dorothy bought it.
omg Joyce is almost admitting to have sexual feelings?? 😀
I wonder if Dorothy’s reaction would be the same if the boy was not Joe but anyone else. I just can’t understand if she’s jealous and wants Joyce for herself or if she’s really upset to see a friend joyfully go in the mouth of the wolf.
I think because its Joe. And she knows what sort of person Joe is, or at least used to be. I don’t think Dorothy has been privy to the changes in his character as of late.
I’m of two minds on Dorothy. On the one hand she’s clearly trying on the Mom pants: confronting Joe, refusing to entertain any response he gave, and now the smoldering looks in response to Joyce’s clear sexual attraction to Joe. It’s not her place to cockblock this particular ship, but her face suggests this is her intent. And though she’s just smart enough to pull it off, she’s just emotionally clueless enough to be unable to foresee the consequences of her purported actions.
ON THE OTHER HAND: I knew a guy in the Navy who reminded me a lot of Joe. He was handsome, had curly black hair, bright steel-grey eyes, and muscles for days. He wasn’t particularly tall—5’9” or 5’10”, I believe, but he was gorgeous. In fact, the crew of my sub called this young electrician’s mate “Petty Officer Gorgeous” (sailors are weird like that). He also dressed well out of uniform, and he had a remarkable ability to find exactly the right things to say to get and keep the attention of any young woman he met. I’d heard a dozen stories of his various exploits before the first time I saw him in action in a jazz club in Seattle. My first wife had just left me, and my division were taking me out to cheer me up. There at the club I saw Petty Officer Gorgeous walk in and saunter up to the bar. He stopped to say hi but quickly turned his interest to a pair of young women at the bar. I lost interest, but about fifteen minutes later, he strolls over with those two women on his arms. He introduced me to both of them as though he’s known them both for years, telling me a lot about both ladies in just a few minutes. He also told them a lot about me (I was surprised because I barely knew the guy. Hell, I didn’t even know his first name). Long story short: gss was hooked me up with one young lady and left with the other. I went out with the lady just a few times after that —nice lady, but we didn’t really mesh. On our second date, however, I learned that PO Gorgeous had taken the other young woman home, coerced her into sleeping with him, and dumped her. He also left her with an STD and a black eye. I connected with a JAG officer, and the two of us tried several times to get the woman to press rape charges, but she just couldn’t get past the shame.
Now, I have to wonder, if a friend of mine came to me and said she was seeing PO Gorgeous, would I be willing to entertain the possibility the he had changed? Probably not. Frankly, I hope the bastard eventually was killed by his own syphilis.
I think we’re supposed to call them STI’s, now. I got yelled at over it.
More to the point, we have full knowledge that Joe hasn’t done anything nearly as heinous as that PO, unless Willis wants to take this in a really dark and horrible direction. On top of that, if Dorothy really thought Joe had done something of that caliber, I imagine she’d treat him with more than baseline exhaustion and sarcasm. It’d be extremely irresponsible of her to knowingly allow her friends and hallmates to interact with a known rapist.
We have that knowledge. Dorothy doesn’t. While Dorothy certainly doesn’t know any examples of outright rape, it’s quite possible she’s knows stories of girls Joe had seduced and dumped. Ones he’d “fixed with his penis”.
He certainly has done his best to appear to be the guy you warn your friends about.
You’re missing my point.
Yes, Joe reputation bad. Yes, Dorothy know Joe reputation bad. Yes, we know that she know that he know that she know. Irrelevant, all of it.
What I am saying is that Joe’s thankfully not as bad as Chaucer59’s “PO Gorgeous”, and if he were, and if Dorothy knew about that, she’d be much more aggressive toward him and much more insistent on warning the women around her about him. That is what my point is. Nothing beyond that.
Agreed. I don’t think she knows that about him or probably even thinks that about him.
I just think she thinks she knows enough to be concerned.
Honestly, Dorothy breaking up with Walky has brought out the worst in her tendencies. Walky is someone who still needs to be woken up to a lot of things, and Dorothy helped him start to grow up. Problem is that without someone to balance out those tendencies or be an outlet…she’s projecting that onto Joyce and becoming increasingly alienated from everyone.
It doesn’t help that she’s already decided to change colleges and from personal experience, that sort of thing makes you cut off a lot of social bridges.
With regard to Joe…yes, she’s got history/baggage with Joe being a creep. The strip has made it clear Joe isn’t going to assault someone, and a lot of his ‘I bang often’ is posturing due to insecurity. However, that still colors Dorothy and *she doesn’t know he’s posturing*. She had to put up with his behavior through high school, she’s had to put up with him through first semester, and she witnessed him be creepy towards Joyce at the start.
Note, she does not know how Joyce and Joe got closer over the comic–at all. Why would she when Joyce has not told her, and Dorothy tries to not interact with Joe at all costs? She doesn’t know Joe helped Joyce with losing her faith, or her parent’s divorce, or that Joyce eventually felt safe enough to tell Joe about being drugged. Dorothy has no context for any of this, and that’s…going to cause problems.
Shoot, how did I miss Joyce telling Joe about being drugged? Anyone know what strip that was?
It was right after the apology donuts. He saved one for Joyce and they talked.
We know that Dorothy has been accepted at Yale, but we do not know whether she will actually attend.
Joyce is adorable.
Dorothy’s increasing stinkeye is also adorable.
Comments a few days ago: If Dorothy has a problem with Joe and Joyce, she should talk with Joyce!
Comments today: How dare Dorothy display any sort of negativity about Joe and Joyce!
Comment tomorrow: Something that’s surely contradictory in some way to previous sentiments!
Dorothy isn’t talking to Joyce, though, is she?
She’s asking questions and then glaring when she hears the answers. That’s not what I call a conversation. Nor even a reasonable starter to a conversation, which would presumably be less “you’re making choices I don’t like” and more “I’ve known Joe a long time, are you sure you know what you’re doing”.
Well. It’d be hopefully be more of the latter.
“Do you like _____” is a perfectly reasonable conversation starter. One that could easily lead into “I’ve known Joe a long time, are you sure you know what you’re doing.” I would say its even better than starting with your suggestion, because it allows Joyce to potentially clear up any misconceptions Dorothy might have about the situation before launching into a potentially unnecessary conversation.
After Dorothy’s question though, Joyce says no and immediately continues into a rambling contradiction of her initial statement before running away from the conversation that Dorothy was trying to start. We have no way of knowing how the conversation might’ve played out because Joyce ran away from it (probably more from horniness than discomfort with the conversation itself).
So Dorothy is somehow not talking to Joyce because she asked a question, waited for Joyce to finish answering, and was fled from?
Oh by all means she should talk to her more! But her glaring at joyce while asking these questions does not instill confidence in how this is going to go and her unfortunate pattern of babying joyce.
She asked one question and got a rambling contradictory response. You are correct. Glaring isn’t the best facial expression to wear, but it is far from a deal breaker. I’ve had many productive discussions that started with one party glaring at the other at the onset. I’m just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be getting angry at Dorothy for doing the very thing many of the comments said she should do.
To be fair, I don’t know how many, if any, of Dorothy’s detractors here were the same ones calling for her to talk to Joyce instead of Joe. It could be two completely separate sections of the comments for all I know, but I’m doubtful that there isn’t any overlap in the two groups.
Oh i definantally was, but I have doubts this is going to go well, especially since dorothy has been rather judgmental of joyce lately
it would be good communication for Dorothy to come out and say something along the lines of ‘I know Joe likes you and i don’t trust him, do you really feel safe around him?’ I think Dorothy knows Joyce well enough to know that Joyce’s rambling was a really a long yes, the million dollar questions how will she proceed from her with that answer.
I mean, she asked one question and is letting Joyce answer it the way Joyce has chosen to answer it. Good communication is ensuring the other people in the conversation are done with what they are saying before you speak. Maybe Dorothy can say what you are suggesting at a later time since I don’t think Joyce will want company while she *ahem* writes her comics. Dorothy clearly wasn’t given a chance to respond here though.
It was a yes, but it was a yes that could imply her hormones are overriding her caution rather than that she actually has reason to feel safe.
So, writing comics, is this the Joyce version of: “I’ll be in my bunk” ?
Yes.
Yeah, science!
That one picture just popped into a lot of peoples’ heads from reading that.
I mean, it’s just SO obvious where this is going (¬᎑¬)
What picture? Is Bill Nye in it?
Okay, I get that she Does Not Approve of Joe. But why does Dorothy look so angry here? Is she disappointed Joyce has a libido after all?
she’s just mad she’s not getting any
Panel five Dorothy is radiating Hatred right about now hahaha