Dorothy *does* have charisma, she just isn’t a narcisistic selfish twat. So it manifests less like “everyone look at Bart, he’s doing something,” and more like “hey follow me, we’re going to go do this good thing,” and it *works*.
Charisma is partly superficial charm, but it’s also the ability to _exert_ that charm. That last part is where Ms. Billingsworth is somewhat lacking. She’s much more of a do it herself type, when she does anything at all.
No she doesn’t, nor do I have any idea how you could come to that conclusion. Her absolutely failed run for RA against Roz is evidence of that, as is the fact that Dorothy has literally one friend and that’s the girl who’ll be friends with anyone.
Dorothy does have charisma issues but I don’t think it’s true she only has one friend. Sarah likes her, and so does Becky. She gets along alright with Amber. If we’re counting exes, then she still has Walky. Joe likes her too, even if they rarely hang out anymore.
We’re counting ACTUAL friends, not merely people she has ocasional positive interactions with. Sarah top relationship status is “tolerance” and Becky spent the near entirety of their interactions deliberately antagonising Dorothy.
Discounting Joyce, Dorothy doesn’t have friends, she has coworkers with whom she’s mutually polite (and Becky doesn’t even qualify for that).
Sarah has said in no uncertain terms that she likes Dorothy. Dorothy’s also made it pretty clear she knows Becky’s antagonism is a bit and that they are friends, even if Becky won’t admit it. She and Amber got along pretty well, even if it’s been a while since we’ve seen them one on one. Joe’s been her friend since middle school. I don’t recall if she and Walky have explicitly said they’re still friends but they still like and spend time with each other.
It’s fine if that doesn’t pass your metric for friendship but it does mine and, I suspect, Dorothy’s too.
Exactly how that conclusion was reached was spelled out explicitly. Charisma isn’t a boolean variable, nor are all types of charisma applicable in all situations. A bunch of kids being swayed by a party animal is hardly an indictment.
Dorothy kidnapped Joyce?! I could’ve sworn she did it with nothing more than her personality and words. If only there were a word to describe such a phenomenon.
She has a small, loyal friend group but in terms of charisma she doesn’t have much for winning over the average person on the street. As pointed out to her the other people in her dorm like her well enough but perceive her as the mom friend who tries too hard and less like the type of person they would want as a leader. Not saying she wouldn’t make a good leader but the average person in comic doesn’t respond well to Dorothy’s analytical method of pleasing people.
Don’t worry, it’s not a JOB job exactly, more like the guy’s commissioning me to do specific things every week for a hobby project he REALLY wants to take to the next level. Really nice guy too. 🙃
My one piece of advice is to MAKE SURE that when an ant explodes, ant limbs fly off comedically in six directions. I think we can all agree that without the comedic insect gore, it would be a waste of “exploding ants” as a video game premise 😁
I mean, this is Jennifer “Alpha bongo” Billingsworth we’re talking about here. I’m not sure her ego could handle recognizing someone as both interesting and decent.
The fact that Dorothy being angry for the first time in Jenifer’s memory is a turn on to Jenifer underlines how little Jenifer’s opinion matters on this issue.
lol i don’t think i’ve ever heard anyone call themselves ‘charismatic’, even the more confident ppl but i don’t go outta m yway to hang out with ‘arrogant’ ppl. that said maybe yale won’t work out after all lol
I could see someone saying they’ve got charisma in a group of 8+ people where someone is looking for a spokesperson. Since beyond 6 people it starts to get unreasonable that everyone knows everyone’s skills and talents.
And Jenifer is rare enough in Dorothy’s circles to get close to the 7 person limit on knowing everyone while also Jenifer can have a fairly solid read on Dorothy.
She only said that because Jennifer brought it up first, though. It’s not like she said “I’m charismatic!” unprompted. I don’t see how responding to a critical statement is arrogant
I wonder if Dorothy will actually make it as a politician. I don’t know if it is caused by stress or lack of sleep or other issues Dorothy is dealing. Probably all 3 if I had to take a guess. Anyone got a different take on this?
well by the time she’s the age to be a senator? congresswoman? hopefully she’d be used to dealing iwth the political bs assuming she doesn’t spend a few years interning for indiana’s governor or whatever (not sure if that’s a requirement but i imagine she’d want to intern unelss she wants to graduate yale and immediately announce her plans in a more ‘official’ announcement rather htan telling her peers
Dorothy’s got a decent head for a lot of actual management shit but politicking doesn’t come naturally to her in the way it does for say, Becky and Roz.
@thag: so she’s best suited to be ‘behind the scenes/closed doors’ as a more presidential advisor than a public face (which for some ppl might be ideal tbh, get some stuff accomplished with none of the backlash for the most partl ol)
To some extent. Plenty of people without huge natural charisma or natural politicking talent still do well in politics though.
She’s just Hilary instead of Bill.
Honestly, I don’t consider Roz that charismatic, either. Mostly, her charisma comes across as an informed ability, because she makes a big stink and somehow it works out for her because that’s how Willis wants the plot to go.
Becky, OTOH, actually comes across as genuinely likeable and memorable. I buy her time as Robin’s campaign manager way more than I do Roz’ dog-and-pony shows.
It’s not a term I ever hear in the UK, but does policy wonk fit at all? She’s good at theoretical solutions, but they’d need to be run past a few real world ™ experts before you’d ever want to use them politically.
Maybe? Yes, I’d agree that she may need help voicing her opinions and solutions. However, she needs to learn to do so without emotions, or at the very least low level emotions.
[Chief Justice]: “… solemnly swear to preserve, protect, and defend the COnstitution of the United States of America?”
[Becky]: “You betcha!”
[Dorothy, internally]: ♫ How could this happen to me? ♫
I suspect Dorothy will become increasingly disillusioned (if Roz hasn’t already initiated the process) when she realizes how inevitably compromised (not in the good way) one becomes as a politician; I.e. constant fundraising, prioritizing constituencies over personal convictions, becoming more of the things you professed to hate. Of course Dorothy also seems very capable of self deception and denial.
I mean I kinda get what Dorothy is saying. I don’t think we’d have this outburst if Billie had followed through on helping Joyce all the way through getting the medication.
well, she did stay with the whole doctor visit, and attempting visiting her room later, i feel like after that interaction , she would’ve wanted joyce to text her asking for help rather than accompanying her and also getting past sarah again lol
Yeah I don’t like Dorothy’s wording of having to drag Joyce to the pharmacy. She didnt need to and it’s debatable if taking her then and there was as urgent as she believes.
Billie didn’t force anything though she put the offer on the table and didn’t act until Joyce accepted. Which is in contrast with Dorothy’s trying to schedule Joyce’s life for her.
I suspect rather Dorothy wants to acknowledge it or not part of the reason she and Becky were pouncing on the chance to help Joyce first thing in the morning was so she had to go to them for help.
I thought that sexualities didn’t change across ‘verses per Word of Willis, and that Joyce was straight in the other comics.
Also I personally don’t like the undervaluing of platonic friendship compared to romantic relationships. I’ve had friends who I cared about this much, and am sad we lost that kind of connection.
It’s true they don’t change, but Willis has also said that it is possible previously-thought straight characters will realize they’re not straight. That’s what happened with Danny – he thought he was straight and then realized he was bisexual. This then made Walkyverse Danny retroactively bisexual too.
I agree with you that platonic relationships shouldn’t be devalued in favour of romance, but I also believe that strong friendship is a great foundation for romance. We all have different preferences on what friendships we’d like to see become romances, and that’s fine. You’d prefer to keep this as a friendship and Florence finds it relatable to her romantic life and so would like to see it as a romance (please forgive me if I have your pronouns incorrect, Florence, I’m not 100% on what they are). You’re both fine.
I’m sorry to hear you lost a friend you had such a deep connection with and I hope you find other friends you have that deep a connection with and that you might be able to reconnect with them again. Sometimes the trail of life is kind to us that way.
yesterday?? wait so it hasn’t been a full 24 hours since Joyce saw the doctor?? god, SHUT UP Dorothy! you didn’t “have” to drag Joyce to the pharmacy!
you’re literally not obligated to do any of this “hard work” and it’s like you’re making yourself into a matyr for doing these things that NOBODY asked you do, things that Joyce actually asked you NOT to do
get over yourself girl!
i’m not that familiar with prescription medicine, but other than say, insulin, i’d definitely wanna sleep in, unless i had like class that day as opposed to it being a weekend over getting the pills and getting it over with, but yeah it would’ve been a lot more convenient if it could’ve been delivered to her discreetly (though no drama in that lol)
if it was insulin or antibiotics to treat a urinary tract infection or something like that this would be a “yes go to the pharmacy immediately right now” situation, but that’s very much not it with Joyce’s problem
I don’t know how it is in Indiana or at their college, but at my pharmacy anyone can pick up a prescription *for me* as long as they know my birth date. (Unless it was a more regulated substance, but birth control isn’t.)
I said this yesterday too, but it’s ridiculous of Dorothy to be dressing down Billie over this. Billie didn’t “leave” anything for anyone to “have to” do, she just…went about her day after the first part of the event was done, and she checked back in later. The prescription wasn’t so urgent that a few hours would make such an apocalyptic difference, and I’m not so sure that Billie wouldn’t have accompanied Joyce to the pharmacy if she’d had time to ask.
Instead, what happened was that Joyce got ambushed just a few minutes after regaining consciousness, by Dorothy (and Becky), effectively preventing Billie from being able to follow up. And now she’s pissy at Billie for not doing the thing she personally made sure she wasn’t able to do. I just think it’s a little weird to be accusing her of ducking out for the hard part when that’s literally not remotely what even sort of happened a little bit.
Which kind of help is better depends on the individual. If someone tells me I ought to do something that I don’t want to do, and then wanders off, then even if I agree I probably won’t do it. I would like (perhaps not enjoy) having a friend who will get me to commit to doing what I know I ought to do. If you want it in a slogan: I’d rather be dragged than nagged.
I couldn’t say whether Joyce is like me in this, when she is calm. Maybe we’ll find out in a few weeks (realtime).
See, the thing is, I don’t personally care for/about the “which help does Joyce actually need right now” angle to this interaction. What I’m interested in is how Dorothy came to the conclusion that Billie has somehow abandoned Joyce in her darkest hour, when she’s honestly been pretty attentive while still managing her own time. For all anybody knows, Billie might have come around after her early-morning stuff (it’s like 9am or something still, the sun’s barely been out) and taken Joyce to the pharmacy on the down-low. Now we can’t know for sure, because Dorothy decided it was 3000% vital to pester Joyce before sunrise.
That’s not any sort of villainy, for the record (you know who you are), I just think Dorothy maybe has a skewed perspective on the actual factual events and how they happened, and it’s flavoring her interactions.
Personally, while I get that birth control pills will be more help the sooner they’re taken, I also like the idea of spacing out the pick-up a little bit from the doctor visit. It softens the blow while still keeping the events close together, since Joyce doesn’t have to come home from the doctor with new pills and out up with everyone mansplaining her own uterus to her all night when she’s already jittery from the outing. She was able to go home and get some amount of rest in between, and I think Billie picking her up later on would have been more gentle while still being plenty firm. It’s something to directly appreciate, rather than begrudgingly.
She doesn’t even get the feel-good meds today! She has to take the sugar pill today! She can literally lay in bed until her period is over before going to get the GD birth control!
A fool, foolishly: Jennifer is the bad guy here because reasons
Another fool, just as foolishly: No Dorothy is the villain here because reasons
A third fool, the most foolish: JOYCE is the bad guy because
Me, enlightened, filled with the vast and infinite knowledge of the universe and universes beyond: Dorothy, charisma is demonstrated by wrestling Jennifer to the ground and making out with her there
They’re both stressed out and dealing with some stuff. You know what’s a good way to relieve stress for a while? Gay makeouts. It’s just smart emotional/mental health management, when you think about it.
We all know about the Yale thing and it’s one of two things. Either Dorothy ” Did the one thing she convinced us all she wasn’t going to do and passed up on tale to stay with friends” or “Yale is in her grasp but is hesitant between going or staying with the others” and Joyce and a few others are not making this easy Either way.
Yeah, I’m so glad someone said this. I think she’s coming to grips with the fact that she’d be leaving everyone behind, and lashing out from the stress of the decision.
She worries about leaving Joyce to fend for herself and is resentful that Jennifer is able to do so much less and not *worry* about Joyce the way she does. And she knows that if/when she leaves, Jennifer won’t step up to fill in for her, since Jennifer already thinks she’s doing so much.
Agreed that Dorothy needs to know that someone’s going to take care of Joyce after she’s gone, because obviously Joyce is incapable of doing so herself…
Very nice, though this is like the second time one of your art pieces left me wondering about the height of certain characters. Is Dorothy taller than Billie? Because if she is that would make her as tall as Ruth if that was the case and I don’t know if that tracks.
But still very nice, liking you went extra mile with this one.
I don’t know if I’m in the minority here, but I have never in my life obtained medication so soon after getting it prescribed unless the pharmacy was in the same building as the doctor’s office and I could get it on the way out.
It’s crazy to me that Dorothy forced Joyce to get hers in the day immediately after her doctor’s appointment like it was a goddamn emergency (it’s not, it’s not even going to alleviate Joyce’s current physical pain) and then has the gall to complain that it was difficult to do
Here’s a thought Dorothy: don’t do it then! nobody asked you to! especially not Joyce!
depending on the medication, it might not even be there if you have a ‘rarer’ issue, right? unless after/during when the doctor writes up the prescription for you, their secretary/assistant calls up the pharmacy and informs them to order/stock what’s needed versus stuff that’s already there , or it might not be open (i’m sure 24 pharmacies might be a thing but i know american healthcare is a mess) or ppl would be busy with their jobs/lives because of capitalism and personal issues and such
And considering ‘placebos’ were mentioned maybe they should’ve gotten her like tylenol/midol and put it off til joyce was more comfortable
Birth control isn’t rare though. It would be stocked at a college pharmacy. The odder thing to me is that she didn’t get it immediately after the appointment. At my college, the pharmacy was in the same building as the rest of the health center, and you picked up prescriptions on your way out of appointments.
other than like, blood tests and a weight check and such to see what you’re ‘compatible’ with, it’s a shame you can’t just buy some without a prescription (though joyce is getting it to reduce pain/stop her period versus planning on being sexually active so maybe she is getting a specific brand but yeah shame it has to be complicated, political ‘discourse’ aside, health is already enough of a drag)
Here’s a thought: Maybe we, as the audience, can perhaps just accept the internal logic of the comic that it is, in fact, important for Joyce to start taking her medicine ASAP, whether or not that aligns with our personal experience or even reality at large. It’s a comic whose writing must be dictated to some extent by pacing and a need for conflict, and it is therefore okay for it to be occasionally unrealistic.
Or, we could just agree to disagree and you can stop posting essentially this comment on EVERY STRIP WITH DOROTHY IN IT. It’s becoming very annoying.
It aligns with my experience. I just got some birth control to stop my period for the same reason as Joyce, and the doctor told me to start it as soon as I get my next period. It’s not gonna do fuck all for the current cycle (that’s what the Advil she prescribed me was for) but the earlier in your cycle you start, the more likely it is that it’ll affect the next one. So while it may not be medically essential to start now, it IS better for Joyce to start it now, and the doctor probably told her to go ASAP and get it.
And speaking as a fellow Joyce? Yeah, I’m way more likely to go ‘eh, I don’t NEED to need to right now’ if I’m not currently in the debilitating pain and I have school shit to get done. I couldn’t imagine how hard it’d be to make myself go if I had actual issues with birth control owing to my upbringing. And given Joyce herself has told Dorothy that sometimes it is necessary to make her do unpleasant but needed things? I can’t fault Dorothy for going ‘Okay, we’re going’. Especially because Dorothy OFFERED to go pick them up FOR her. Sarah said no, but Joyce didn’t. She told them to leave her room, which Dorothy agreed to do and the next time we see them they are together and Joyce goes to the pharmacy willingly until she starts being anxious when they get closer.
I mean this in a very nice, polite and semi-friendly (informal) way, but that rarely works around here. In fact, from my own experience, it’s now more likely to come up now that you’ve expressed exhaustion. People take that personally.
I mean I have no skin in the game either way, but the comic itself pointed out that Joyce would start with placebos since she’s still on her period. I can accept that everybody wanted her to get it done so she can get used to it and not continue to freak out, and that ‘Dorothy sat down and thought about how Joyce didn’t actually need to pick up her rx yet’ isn’t as good for pacing as ‘lets go get them right now,’ but it’s hard to say even in universe that the need was SUPER URGENT enough that it couldn’t technically have waited until she was feeling a little better at least.
It’s better to get the placebos out of the way on your period so that the actual meds have time to work for your next cycle. That’s why earlier is better, at least according to my OB.
Hypothetically, yes, but they still work better the sooner and more consistently you take them so even if you toss the sugar pills in the garbage, earlier is still better, even if you only ever use the actual medication.
as Taffy said: ““Shut up, it’s a comic” is just you not wanting to engage in conversation/analysis; which is fine for you, but then why reply this to me? I clearly want to dissect this part of the comic. You’re not required to engage with me or the subjects I’m interested in.
And I’ll keep bringing it up as long as it’s a central point of the day’s comic, which is certainly the case today. Because I think Dorothy fucked up real bad and now she’s complaining that it was hard for her.
(Assuming that you’ve known this comic for years) DoA has often touched several nerves when it comes to sensitive issues, be it death-cult evangelism, homophobia from your own parents, suicidal ideation, etc; and every time there’s several comments about the subject.
If the comic keeps bringing up sore subjects, are the commenters supposed to shut up and wait till the end of the storyline to analyze them? Has that actually happened before?
“Maybe we, as the audience, can perhaps just accept the internal logic of the comic that it is, in fact, important for Joyce to start taking her medicine ASAP”
I mean it has happened more than once within this comic that a character’s logic is proven to be completely wrong, so I’m not quite willing to accept that Dorothy’s logic is the same as the comic’s internal logic.
I’m not over Dorothy *yelling* at Joyce for not having picked up meds the same day she got a prescription when, between the choice of going immediately to the pharmacy or going home and going to bed, only one of these was going to offer Joyce immediate physical relief after a very trying day. (Hint: it wasn’t the hormonal birth control, which not only not would have kicked in instantly, but she wouldn’t even be TAKING during the duration of this period, since she’d be starting off on sugar pills.)
BC pills are taken in a specific sequence and timing, so they’re pre-packaged. The pharmacy would just have a stack of them, right, here you go, do you have any questions for the pharmacist?
My $0.02: I have never in my life waited more than a day to pick up my prescriptions. In my experience, if you tell your doctor’s office which pharmacy you use, they’ll send the ‘scrip ahead and unless it’s unique/controlled medication (or the kind of thing that can’t be administered at home) they’ll have it ready by the time you get there.
And even when they didn’t send it ahead, I still hit the pharmacy on the way home from my appointment. The only reason I wouldn’t have done so was if A: I didn’t have the money at the time or B: I didn’t actually want the medicine.
Depends on the prescription. Most things that are in stock are ready within a few hours. Some can be even sooner. Some things I’ve needed aren’t common and it takes a few days (or sometimes longer) to get them ready.
Something like this though – they don’t even need to fill a bottle with the right number of pills. Her BC likely comes in a standard package. She walked in with a paper prescription and walked out minutes later.
Also, looking at IU’s health center – there is a pharmacy on site. Not quite in the doctor’s office, but in the same building.
When I’ve needed prescriptions for something, I usually ended up getting them a few hours after seeing the doctor and getting prescribed them. I can understand not getting them soon after if you’re busy or whatever, but my experience has been almost always getting them the same day as I saw a doctor.
This does seem like an incredibly odd conflict. I know B-uh, Jennifer, was smug and annoying, but with how much of that Dorothy shrugs off from Becky, I’m not sure why it is getting to her so much here.
Maybe it’s the added stress of deciding whether to transfer to Yale and leave her friends behind, especially the one who seems to need a lot of help?
yeah i would’ve expected her to snap at becky too at some point or maybe she knows it’s all in jest/fairly lighthearted and becky doesn’t have any real ill intentions towards her versus becky having a personality like malaya’s or so. (i don’t dislike becky, tho i don’t like every aspect of her either though she doesn’t come off as ‘grating’ to me even when she’s trying to needle dorothy, though i probably would be annoyed irl/if i was the one being jabbed at in that situation)
My read on this right now – and this is very much speculation – is that Dorothy isn’t really particularly mad at Jennifer; she’s mad at Joyce, but doesn’t want to take it out on her because a) Dorothy loves Joyce a bit too much for that, and b) it’s not Joyce’s fault she has menstrual pain and was raised in a repressive, misogynist cult. So, she’s directing that anger and frustration toward the next best target. There may well be other stressors that have been building up under the surface, but that feels like the immediate thing.
Yes, I thinks she’s really just still damaged from the kidnapping and has been stuffing it all down so she doesn’t injure the primary victims again with her anger or frustration. Becky and Joyce have been going after her constantly, she’s stressed about her grades, worried about flunking out at her dream school, worried about leaving her vulnerable friends. Billie on the other hand richly deserves some abuse and can clearly take it judging from the way she fished it out.
To the degree that I read Jennifer as smug, it’s a flirtatious smug, in keeping with “angry Dotty hot” from yesterday—like, if she’s smug at all (a big inference that may be untrue) it’s to keep Dorothy in this moment of sexy, sexy anger.
I mean…yeah, of course it does, because Jennifer is into that unhealthy shit (see: her whole relationship with Ruth and its basis in oneupmanship, a mutual suicide pact, physical violence, etc.)
i don’t mind a mix/mash of literal names but i find it cute when they get specific terms (though pokemon can get a little odd/i assume the ones that get popular are the ones chosen by an already popular artist who’s the first to make amazing fanart and everyone agrees) Something like “strawberry lemonade” for some kinda bittersweet pair or simply b/c their color schemes are pink/yellow lol (can’t think of anything off the top of my head for dorothy/joyce tho)
Did a quick look-see, and it looks like there’s exactly one Joyce/Dorothy fic on AO3, out of a total of 18 DoA fics.
…there’s also apparently a Carol-centric fic by that one commenter who left a needlessly-personal “fuck Willis I’m out” comment accusing them of blaming God for their mother’s actions during the Faith-Off. Not sure if that’s sad, hilarious, or both.
never really hear about the ‘good’ politicians, or ppl jaded enough to think everything is a pr move
i’m not sure what the ‘mayors’ of cities/towns do but i was surprised to learn my town/city even had one considering it was a small town/suburb of a bigger city so not sure if they did anything or was just a glorified leader (because i’m sure there’s small towns to where ‘nothing happens’ to the point where ppl elect cats/dogs for mayor)
i doubt we’d get a dorothy spinoff/flashforward but i suppose realistically she’d have to get her hands dirty/do some things that goes against her morals to even get halfway there
i don’t think she’d have any interest in joyce that way but i wouldn’t be surprised if she ever did a “i’m gonna steal him/her/them away from you because i can” in some cases lol
1.) I swear it was established that Jennifer is a master of the “steal your significant other” art form, or at least in aiding with it, given that she helped Sarah aim Joyce at Jacob
2.) I have a mighty need for a scenario where Jennifer threatens to steal Joyce as a way of stealthily Gettin’ With Dorothy
Ignoring who’s right and who’s wrong here, Dorothy came on very aggressive and Billifer is responding with a very smug and dismissive “u mad bro” attitude. This isn’t actually fixing anything and even if one or the other does have good points to make, they will not be made as long as they’re both acting like this.
Here’s a bit of an odd theory, but as self-centered and dismissive as Billie is, I really think she’s more of the friend Joyce needs at this time. It’s obvious that Joyce has grown to resent Dorothy’s obsessive micromanaging and Joyce has come to resent her codependence on her. Billie seems to understand that Joyce needs to do for herself at her own pace.
Between the incident the previous day with Ruth and her reaction to this argument, Jennifer seems to be operating under the belief that if someone gets mad at you, then that makes you in the right.
Which is very much in keeping with her ‘teenager who thinks she’s emotionally mature now’ deal.
I’m just so fucking tired of all these friends being angry and bitter with each other constantly. Every goddamn scene is an argument. Every conflict is between people I’ve grown to love. It feels like this is the only character interaction we get anymore: somebody (including Joyce) being shitty to or about Joyce.
Glad I’m not the only one who’s feeling kinda burnt out by the character interactions of late. Ever since the faith-off everything just feels so… cynical, bitter, jaded. And even the occasional sweet parts I’m just waiting for the cynicism to come crashing in and ruin it (Danny/Sal, Becky/Dina).
What part of Danny/Sal is even a little bit bad? I can’t think of a single negative aspect of their relationship. They’re cute as fuck. I know people accused Danny of being basically a creepy grooming stalker who was trying to control Sal, but that was entirely made up by the comment section’s imaginations and didn’t reflect the actual events of the comic.
I know I’m going to regret asking, but: how, exactly? I truly cannot parse this idea. Taffy pointed out the facts about Danny/Sal adroitly, and like, what exactly is wrong with Dina/Becky, unless we are subscribed to the idea that Becky is a hell-creature that feeds on suffering?
Come to think of it, during the Big Fuck Arc, wasn’t Dina accused of being a manipulative sex pest toward Becky and also too autistic to understand consent? I guess there’s also her constant bafflement and horror regarding Becky’s fundie upbringing, which people insist is the same thing as a complete lack of respect for Becky as a person.
Taffy: oh God yeah they did say that, or that Dina was doing some kind of Dawkins-esque project to force Becky away from religion, rather than, y’know, being happy she and Becky banged without Becky torturing herself mentally
I thought it might be a possibility, only because Dina had just explicitly learned in character that “sometimes when somebody says they don’t want to talk about it, maybe they want you to make them talk about it” and I was worried she’d overgeneralize.
Especially since Becky kind of did want to be pushed. Kind of.
THERE SURE WAS. There was at least one person who said that Dina was a sexual predator (or something equivalent, the precise wording escapes me but it was not ambiguous) because she had sex with Becky after Becky vocally and enthusiastically agreed to have sex and kept vocally agreeing to it during the sex (well, so I hear from folks who read the Slipshine, I didn’t read it myself) because in the PAST Becky had said she wanted to wait until marriage.
Because apparently the way consent works is not only “you can change your mind and say no at any point, even if you said yes in the past” but also that a “no” in the past trumps any future “yeses”. Changing your mind only goes one way, I guess!
I worry about some of these folks. That ain’t a healthy understanding of the mental framework of sex and consent.
That has been the case often enough, but Dorothy and Jennifer aren’t friends.
They stayed on the same floor of the same dorm and shared Walky and friends in common.
But, while they don’t generally antagonize each other (like Becky towards Dorothy) or hate each other (like Sarah towards Jennifer, and pretty much everyone), they do not tend to think about or worry about each other, seek out each other for advice, hang out with each other, or even like each other.
I’ve started mostly avoiding the comments because I am tired of seeing Dorothy being bashed for every single strip she is in and people demanding endless empathy for Joyce.
I am not actively currently invested in any of the current plotlines and am at the point of Argument Induced Apathy where I am losing interest in who is right and who is wrong and just want people to be nice to each other again.
I don’t know about “endless empathy for Joyce”, I’m personally just hoping for more than we’re seeing. And also less attacks on people like Joyce or who have that empathy.
Wow, Jenny. It’s almost as if you can’t hear yourself talk. Trying to make this about Dorothy doesn’t change the fact that you dealt the damage and they’re suffering the repercussions. If you were really Ms. Problem Solver, you would’ve stuck through to the end.
….what damage did Jennifer do here? The framing I keep seeing where Jennifer did a BAD THING by suggesting that Joyce see a doctor about her debilitating cramps, and moreover, that this is legitimately a form of harm directed at Dorothy is….a take.
It’s a really, really weird take that does not seem to be connected to reality in any meaningful way, but I guess it is a take.
She unfairly criticised Dorothy and Becky for not ‘taking care’ of Joyce and then when Dorothy actually listens to her because she doesn’t like feeling like a bad friend, guess what, Joyce doesn’t appreciate it, so she still feels like a bad friend and like Jennifer can stfu forever on top of that.
So the only damage was to Dorothy’s ego, which is absolutely not Billie’s problem or fault. It’s a mild blow at worst and she’s already stressed out as it is.
Jennifer literally did no damage in this situation. Dorothy’s the one that keeps doing damage by insisting on running Joyce’s life, and then she complains that, gosh, she has to run Joyce’s life.
Jennifer agrees that Dorothy should run Joyce’s life in the same way I think that von Doom is the best comic book villain: it’s not that it’s great for anybody involved, it’s just that Jennifer thinks that’s the only way Dorothy is interesting.
You could read that here, but if you go back to the first scene with her finding out about Joyce’s illness – “Why aren’t you solving this?” and something like “I thought you two could take care of her when I wasn’t around.”
Seems pretty clear to me that they both think someone needs to be running Joyce’s life.
Right. The difference is the tactics. Jennifer’s seem to work better.
The question is what would she have done if it hadn’t worked straight off? How would she have “solved this”? It’s clear that she would still have thought she had to.
So, what Jennifer is suggesting here to Dorothy is… to “claim” Joyce for herself and use her possessiveness over her as a source of determination and energy that could help her show that infamous charisma to others? This is terrible! Dorothy would never accept such a situation and probably Joyce too! But it is true that angry Dorothy is an unusual and fascinating thing to see. It’s pretty sure Jennifer is shipping Dorothy and Joyce now.
I think she’s just suggesting that Dorothy is into Joyce romantically and should try dating her, because whatever Dorothy is actually feeling, this is not how people typically behave about their completely platonic friends.
Agree. That’s unusual and probably Dorothy really is in love and don’t knows that. But maybe this could be the case where Dorothy see Joyce as a (little) sister who needs help for everything.
Is Dotty gonna besmirch her perfect record by initiating a violent encounter due to stress? I like the idea that this is just jealousy, but she looks about to crack.
If Dorothy lost control and slap Jennifer in the face this could become a massacre. Because Jennifer is still angry for the situation with Ruth happened the day before.
I sometimes feel like people forget that Dorothy was also kidnapped, and traumatized by the same stuff that Joyce was, and is also probably very much mentally not okay, and possibly might be overcorrecting by trying to be there more for Joyce (coming off as overbearing) and overly tolerant of Becky.
Dorothy’s not getting the help she needs, she’s turning it into “Grain for her griss mill” and swallowing it all down, she’s starting to crack and she clearly doesn’t want to accept that she herself is hurt and needs help.
Damn that kidnapping shook a lot of people up, it’s funny how one incident can ripple and affect things in bigger ways.
She was kidnapped just like Joyce and had to watch helplessly as Blaine drove off with Joyce again, despite her best efforts to stop him and help her. I definitely think that’s impacting her need to make sure she takes Perfect Care of Joyce right now, to the extent of being overprotective and micromanaging.
Yeah, Dorothy is not okay, I wasn’t gonna say anything but one can only see so many “Fuck off Dorothy, Joyce is going through trauma” posts before I had to finally point out. “Yeah, Dorothy was there, she also went through the trauma”
Hell Dorothy had to stay and keep it together for the police, she’s falling apart at the seams.
It’s definitely getting old now. Strip after strip, people going on about “Dorothy forced Joyce to do X and Y” “Joyce is a grown woman”… nah, Joyce is a massive mess, as has been shown in virtually every single situation, and if Dorothy ditched her, it’d be something else for readers to bongo about Dorothy for.
Dorothy ignores Joyce’s period issues because she assumes she’ll have to fight Joyce on a solution. Like she did on the glasses but worse.
Jennifer shows up, calls Dorothy a bad friend, tells Joyce medication could help, and Joyce says sure.
Dorothy, now on board, immediately scedules Joyce an appointment at the clinic.
Jennifer calls Joyce a “maternal vulture” then takes Joyce to a walk-in appointment.
Joyce neglects to pick up her prescription because she gets told she might be autistic.
Dorothy tries to help Joyce via education. Because Dorothy finds comfort in knowledge. Dorothy’s attempts maje Joyce feel worse.
Jennifer returns and successfully makes Joyce feel better by basically telling her that her emotions are still real.
Dorothy learns that (a) Joyce isn’t taking her medication and (b) hasn’t even picked it up.
Dorothy offers to pick up the medication for her since (a) she’s in pain and (b) she doesn’t want to be seen picking up birth control.
Sarah shoots this down so Dorothy ends up taking Joyce in person.
Joyce refused to enter the clinic unless Dorothy pretended to be her girlfriend.
Joyce spent the entire morning fighting Dorothy on every step and and tells her off at the end. …conveniently ignoring how in the end she did need Dorothy to pick up the pills.
So…
Dorothy identifies Joyce has an eye problem that’s impacting her life and makes her get glasses. Joyce is upset she needs to wear glasses.
Dorothy identifies Joyce has a problem with her periods, but decides not to intervene this time. Jennifer gets upset and it turns out Joyce is okay with going to the doctor this time.
Dorothy tries to help by scheduling an appointment and Jennifer insults her again before taking Joyce to a walk-in.
Joyce is upset over her potential autism and Dorothy’s attempts to comfort her (via knowledge of the subject) make Joyce feel worse. Jennifer makes Joyce feel better.
Next day Dorothy checks in and Joyce doesn’t even have her medication. Joyce reacts negatively to Dorothy’s shock.
Dorothy, acknowledging Joyce’s pain and hang-ups offers to puck up the prescription for her. Sarah tells her off for babying Joyce.
Dorothy takes Joyce to the clinic and at her insistence pretends to be Joyce’s girlfriend. Dorothy also has to pick up the instructions for Joyce. Joyce is upset with Dorothy for making her come here. The Pharmacist however validates Dorothy.
So… Dorothy is a bad friend for making Joyce go to the doctor for a problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for NOT offering to take Joyce to the doctor for a second problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for trying to help with the second problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for failing to successfully comfort Joyce. Dorothy is a bad friend for following up on Joyce’s second medical problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for offering to pick Joyce’s medication for her. Dorothy is a bad friend for taking Joyce to the clinic to pick up her medication. (Ignoring how we have solud evidence Joyce needed Dorothy present to do so herself).
Dorothy has been Joyce’s friend every day. Yet in the past days, Dorothy has been implicitly and explicitly called a bad friend no matter what choice she makes.
Jennifer who is literally not present or ignoring Joyce most of the time can do no wrong.
I can understand why Dorothy needs to vent and am personally glad she’s blowing up at Jennifer instead of Joyce.
Though Jennifer obviously has no idea why Dorothy’s upset.
Charisma works by undermining everyone who actually does their job and hopes that nobody notices she’s not doing hers. Then she blames everyone else when things blow up because her job wasn’t done (or if things blow up for some other reason.)
Oh, wait, sorry, that’s Kharisma, and she’s from a different comic universe. Sorry, never mind! 😉
Maybe some people can determine these things before hand, but I don’t know people well enough to make that determination until they return to a situation where they could engage in their old behavior. I’d say “reasonably”, but it was never reasonable behavior in the first place, and there’s never a time when it would be reasonable. Well, unless one is secretly a spy sent to undermine the place, and by not doing ones for show job, one is doing ones actual job.
They both kinda have a point
Billie showed up, said “do this” and then when Joyce felt embarrassed, Dorothy had to pick up her slack
You can’t just pop in and out and get involved when you want to, you either get involved or you don’t, you can’t just tip toe that
*pours out own brain through ear*
Dorothy needs to settle down, before someone calls the cops on her. She’s lucky Billie hasn’t done so already. This outburst qualifies for at least six different legal charges in the Real World, which is something that Matters.
Apropos of nothing, I just watched all 4 seasons of “The Ethical Slut” on YouTube. It’s got aspects worth critiquing, but it’s also nice to see representation on film for poly love.
I’ve never read “the Ethical Slut” but it was recommended to me back in the day. Back another lifetime ago.
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which points did you dump into charisma tho, the + ones or the – ones
Dorothy chooses bard and THEN rolls stats for it and puts the low charisma in where the dice gods intended it to be.
Dorothy: “I rolled 3d6, 6 times, IN ORDER! Any other method is houseruling!”
My first AD&D character, rolled that way, was a fighter with an 18/00 Strength.
I mean to be fair I roll stats after I choose a class. But I don’t make them put them in the order rolled. They can put them where-ever
Dorothy *does* have charisma, she just isn’t a narcisistic selfish twat. So it manifests less like “everyone look at Bart, he’s doing something,” and more like “hey follow me, we’re going to go do this good thing,” and it *works*.
Charisma is partly superficial charm, but it’s also the ability to _exert_ that charm. That last part is where Ms. Billingsworth is somewhat lacking. She’s much more of a do it herself type, when she does anything at all.
No she doesn’t, nor do I have any idea how you could come to that conclusion. Her absolutely failed run for RA against Roz is evidence of that, as is the fact that Dorothy has literally one friend and that’s the girl who’ll be friends with anyone.
Dorothy does have charisma issues but I don’t think it’s true she only has one friend. Sarah likes her, and so does Becky. She gets along alright with Amber. If we’re counting exes, then she still has Walky. Joe likes her too, even if they rarely hang out anymore.
We’re counting ACTUAL friends, not merely people she has ocasional positive interactions with. Sarah top relationship status is “tolerance” and Becky spent the near entirety of their interactions deliberately antagonising Dorothy.
Discounting Joyce, Dorothy doesn’t have friends, she has coworkers with whom she’s mutually polite (and Becky doesn’t even qualify for that).
Sarah has said in no uncertain terms that she likes Dorothy. Dorothy’s also made it pretty clear she knows Becky’s antagonism is a bit and that they are friends, even if Becky won’t admit it. She and Amber got along pretty well, even if it’s been a while since we’ve seen them one on one. Joe’s been her friend since middle school. I don’t recall if she and Walky have explicitly said they’re still friends but they still like and spend time with each other.
It’s fine if that doesn’t pass your metric for friendship but it does mine and, I suspect, Dorothy’s too.
Exactly how that conclusion was reached was spelled out explicitly. Charisma isn’t a boolean variable, nor are all types of charisma applicable in all situations. A bunch of kids being swayed by a party animal is hardly an indictment.
I await your list of people who followed Dorothy anywhere, considering that her only friend had to be DRAGGED into doing something for her own good.
Dorothy kidnapped Joyce?! I could’ve sworn she did it with nothing more than her personality and words. If only there were a word to describe such a phenomenon.
A bunch of kids being swayed by a party animal IS how charisma works.
She has a small, loyal friend group but in terms of charisma she doesn’t have much for winning over the average person on the street. As pointed out to her the other people in her dorm like her well enough but perceive her as the mom friend who tries too hard and less like the type of person they would want as a leader. Not saying she wouldn’t make a good leader but the average person in comic doesn’t respond well to Dorothy’s analytical method of pleasing people.
Stay presidential, Dorothy 😑
Also, I finally got a paid coding gig! Yay!!! 🥳
I’m helping make a 3D strategy game for mobile! Wish me luck!
Congrats and good luck!
congrats! get that bread as the kids say
Congratulations, it seems like finding coding work is difficuot lately. Good luck and may the winds be ever in your favor.
Prosperity and success to you!
Dude thats awesome! Congrats!
Good luck!
Yay!!!
Having seen the gaming industry treat coders like shit, I wish you well and hope you have found a good roost to nest in.
Also if they start abusing you look for better work. it’s out there and will be easier to find with some experience to your name.
Don’t worry, it’s not a JOB job exactly, more like the guy’s commissioning me to do specific things every week for a hobby project he REALLY wants to take to the next level. Really nice guy too. 🙃
*plays “Livin’ in the Sunlight, Lovin’ in the Moonlight” by Tiny Tim on the hacked muzak*
Congratulations!
Also, as a fan of strategy games (Friends and Dragons is my mobile past time of choice these days), I’d like to know more about this.
It’s more real-time strategy, taking after titles like Mobile Legends and Pikmin, with ant colonies. 🐜
Finally a SimAnt remake?
My one piece of advice is to MAKE SURE that when an ant explodes, ant limbs fly off comedically in six directions. I think we can all agree that without the comedic insect gore, it would be a waste of “exploding ants” as a video game premise 😁
Congratulations!
go code the shit out of some 3d
Congratulations!
Awesome! Good luck with the new job and congrats <3
luck to you!
Congratz! Dorothy for president.
Dorothy has solid dork charisma, which admittedly is probably not a form of charisma that Jennifer recognizes.
Dorothy has charisma that makes only a select number of people like her and unable to persuade anyone of anything.
I kinda don’t like peeps implying Dorothy is bland because she’s a decent person most of the time.
given Robin as a politician, I’d gladly welcome a “bland” future president
Most of our better Presidents have arguably been a bit bland, but it’s entirely possible to be bland and terrible at the same time.
I mean, this is Jennifer “Alpha bongo” Billingsworth we’re talking about here. I’m not sure her ego could handle recognizing someone as both interesting and decent.
The fact that Dorothy being angry for the first time in Jenifer’s memory is a turn on to Jenifer underlines how little Jenifer’s opinion matters on this issue.
Jennifer’s not the only one to say this. Becky said it too in a somewhat more insulting manner.
I don’t think she’s bland BECAUSE she’s a decent person. I just think she’s bland AND a decent person.
Well said.
Can’t disagree there. Then again I don’t think about Dorothy much which might be more damning.
Yeah poor Dorothy can’t win, lol either she’s bland and too perfect, or literally the worst thing ever because she’s overbearing.
lol i don’t think i’ve ever heard anyone call themselves ‘charismatic’, even the more confident ppl but i don’t go outta m yway to hang out with ‘arrogant’ ppl. that said maybe yale won’t work out after all lol
“Hey! Nobody calls Soundwave uncrazimatic!”
I could see someone saying they’ve got charisma in a group of 8+ people where someone is looking for a spokesperson. Since beyond 6 people it starts to get unreasonable that everyone knows everyone’s skills and talents.
And Jenifer is rare enough in Dorothy’s circles to get close to the 7 person limit on knowing everyone while also Jenifer can have a fairly solid read on Dorothy.
MBA-types do.
She only said that because Jennifer brought it up first, though. It’s not like she said “I’m charismatic!” unprompted. I don’t see how responding to a critical statement is arrogant
I wonder if Dorothy will actually make it as a politician. I don’t know if it is caused by stress or lack of sleep or other issues Dorothy is dealing. Probably all 3 if I had to take a guess. Anyone got a different take on this?
well by the time she’s the age to be a senator? congresswoman? hopefully she’d be used to dealing iwth the political bs assuming she doesn’t spend a few years interning for indiana’s governor or whatever (not sure if that’s a requirement but i imagine she’d want to intern unelss she wants to graduate yale and immediately announce her plans in a more ‘official’ announcement rather htan telling her peers
25 for the House, 30 for the Senate, and 35 for the presidency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_candidacy_laws_in_the_United_States#Federal_government
Dorothy’s got a decent head for a lot of actual management shit but politicking doesn’t come naturally to her in the way it does for say, Becky and Roz.
@thag: so she’s best suited to be ‘behind the scenes/closed doors’ as a more presidential advisor than a public face (which for some ppl might be ideal tbh, get some stuff accomplished with none of the backlash for the most partl ol)
To some extent. Plenty of people without huge natural charisma or natural politicking talent still do well in politics though.
She’s just Hilary instead of Bill.
Honestly, I don’t consider Roz that charismatic, either. Mostly, her charisma comes across as an informed ability, because she makes a big stink and somehow it works out for her because that’s how Willis wants the plot to go.
Becky, OTOH, actually comes across as genuinely likeable and memorable. I buy her time as Robin’s campaign manager way more than I do Roz’ dog-and-pony shows.
Dorothy would probably be an effective legislator, but not a good candidate.
It’s not a term I ever hear in the UK, but does policy wonk fit at all? She’s good at theoretical solutions, but they’d need to be run past a few real world ™ experts before you’d ever want to use them politically.
Maybe? Yes, I’d agree that she may need help voicing her opinions and solutions. However, she needs to learn to do so without emotions, or at the very least low level emotions.
@Pirate: flash forward ten years, she’s somehow /becky’/s campaign manager
At the inauguration:
[Chief Justice]: “… solemnly swear to preserve, protect, and defend the COnstitution of the United States of America?”
[Becky]: “You betcha!”
[Dorothy, internally]: ♫ How could this happen to me? ♫
I suspect Dorothy will become increasingly disillusioned (if Roz hasn’t already initiated the process) when she realizes how inevitably compromised (not in the good way) one becomes as a politician; I.e. constant fundraising, prioritizing constituencies over personal convictions, becoming more of the things you professed to hate. Of course Dorothy also seems very capable of self deception and denial.
* I meant to say Robin not Roz
She’s more of a Chief of Staff than a politician.
Dorothy is has poor SpD base stats, a negative SpD nature but still insists on putting max EVs into it and is surprised at the results
Jennifer, that’s not quite what that idiom means – Dorothy basically perpetually has a fire lit under her ass.
I mean I kinda get what Dorothy is saying. I don’t think we’d have this outburst if Billie had followed through on helping Joyce all the way through getting the medication.
well, she did stay with the whole doctor visit, and attempting visiting her room later, i feel like after that interaction , she would’ve wanted joyce to text her asking for help rather than accompanying her and also getting past sarah again lol
Yeah I don’t like Dorothy’s wording of having to drag Joyce to the pharmacy. She didnt need to and it’s debatable if taking her then and there was as urgent as she believes.
You mean like Dorothy and Sarah offering to help Joyce but not forcing it? Like Billie forcing it?
Billie didn’t force anything though she put the offer on the table and didn’t act until Joyce accepted. Which is in contrast with Dorothy’s trying to schedule Joyce’s life for her.
from the timing of things, Billie didn’t even have the chance to offer to help Joyce get her meds, because Dorothy forced the issue in less than a day
I suspect rather Dorothy wants to acknowledge it or not part of the reason she and Becky were pouncing on the chance to help Joyce first thing in the morning was so she had to go to them for help.
Because Dorothy’s basic nature is “get it done *now* or it won’t get done!” I wish I had a bit more of that.
I honestly don’t get why they couldn’t get the meds on the way back
of course maybe Joyce was zoned out from being told she may be autistic, but that may have helped distract her, actually
The fun thing about all of this?
Joyce is not even getting any relief from the meds today.
She’s taking the sugar pill today, there was NO REASON that she had to go right off the bat, right that second *at all.*
Unless she’s one of those people for whom the placebo works ~MAGICALLY~
Feels a lot like getting to have this confrontation is why Dorothy dragged Joyce to the pharmacist for sugar pills.
Here we see a prime example of the Last Mile, and the woes of it.
There oughta be a Charisma Tier List, with these two and the DeSantos in it.
I hope My read of secretly queer Dorothy/Joyce is correct, at least on Joyce’s end
It would be beautiful and also so very relatable to feel so many intense emotions over normal friendship stuff only to realise “oh”
I thought that sexualities didn’t change across ‘verses per Word of Willis, and that Joyce was straight in the other comics.
Also I personally don’t like the undervaluing of platonic friendship compared to romantic relationships. I’ve had friends who I cared about this much, and am sad we lost that kind of connection.
It’s true they don’t change, but Willis has also said that it is possible previously-thought straight characters will realize they’re not straight. That’s what happened with Danny – he thought he was straight and then realized he was bisexual. This then made Walkyverse Danny retroactively bisexual too.
I agree with you that platonic relationships shouldn’t be devalued in favour of romance, but I also believe that strong friendship is a great foundation for romance. We all have different preferences on what friendships we’d like to see become romances, and that’s fine. You’d prefer to keep this as a friendship and Florence finds it relatable to her romantic life and so would like to see it as a romance (please forgive me if I have your pronouns incorrect, Florence, I’m not 100% on what they are). You’re both fine.
I’m sorry to hear you lost a friend you had such a deep connection with and I hope you find other friends you have that deep a connection with and that you might be able to reconnect with them again. Sometimes the trail of life is kind to us that way.
Yea I’m cool with she/they
Also fair to prefer platonic stay platonic
This is a Hiveworks comic. All characters are to be presumed gay until proven otherwise, including the HMTC (Hiveworks Mandatory Trans Character).
This isn’t an objection, merely an observation.
yesterday?? wait so it hasn’t been a full 24 hours since Joyce saw the doctor?? god, SHUT UP Dorothy! you didn’t “have” to drag Joyce to the pharmacy!
you’re literally not obligated to do any of this “hard work” and it’s like you’re making yourself into a matyr for doing these things that NOBODY asked you do, things that Joyce actually asked you NOT to do
get over yourself girl!
i’m not that familiar with prescription medicine, but other than say, insulin, i’d definitely wanna sleep in, unless i had like class that day as opposed to it being a weekend over getting the pills and getting it over with, but yeah it would’ve been a lot more convenient if it could’ve been delivered to her discreetly (though no drama in that lol)
if it was insulin or antibiotics to treat a urinary tract infection or something like that this would be a “yes go to the pharmacy immediately right now” situation, but that’s very much not it with Joyce’s problem
I don’t know how it is in Indiana or at their college, but at my pharmacy anyone can pick up a prescription *for me* as long as they know my birth date. (Unless it was a more regulated substance, but birth control isn’t.)
I can’t stand Billie but you have a great point here
I said this yesterday too, but it’s ridiculous of Dorothy to be dressing down Billie over this. Billie didn’t “leave” anything for anyone to “have to” do, she just…went about her day after the first part of the event was done, and she checked back in later. The prescription wasn’t so urgent that a few hours would make such an apocalyptic difference, and I’m not so sure that Billie wouldn’t have accompanied Joyce to the pharmacy if she’d had time to ask.
Instead, what happened was that Joyce got ambushed just a few minutes after regaining consciousness, by Dorothy (and Becky), effectively preventing Billie from being able to follow up. And now she’s pissy at Billie for not doing the thing she personally made sure she wasn’t able to do. I just think it’s a little weird to be accusing her of ducking out for the hard part when that’s literally not remotely what even sort of happened a little bit.
Which kind of help is better depends on the individual. If someone tells me I ought to do something that I don’t want to do, and then wanders off, then even if I agree I probably won’t do it. I would like (perhaps not enjoy) having a friend who will get me to commit to doing what I know I ought to do. If you want it in a slogan: I’d rather be dragged than nagged.
I couldn’t say whether Joyce is like me in this, when she is calm. Maybe we’ll find out in a few weeks (realtime).
See, the thing is, I don’t personally care for/about the “which help does Joyce actually need right now” angle to this interaction. What I’m interested in is how Dorothy came to the conclusion that Billie has somehow abandoned Joyce in her darkest hour, when she’s honestly been pretty attentive while still managing her own time. For all anybody knows, Billie might have come around after her early-morning stuff (it’s like 9am or something still, the sun’s barely been out) and taken Joyce to the pharmacy on the down-low. Now we can’t know for sure, because Dorothy decided it was 3000% vital to pester Joyce before sunrise.
That’s not any sort of villainy, for the record (you know who you are), I just think Dorothy maybe has a skewed perspective on the actual factual events and how they happened, and it’s flavoring her interactions.
Personally, while I get that birth control pills will be more help the sooner they’re taken, I also like the idea of spacing out the pick-up a little bit from the doctor visit. It softens the blow while still keeping the events close together, since Joyce doesn’t have to come home from the doctor with new pills and out up with everyone mansplaining her own uterus to her all night when she’s already jittery from the outing. She was able to go home and get some amount of rest in between, and I think Billie picking her up later on would have been more gentle while still being plenty firm. It’s something to directly appreciate, rather than begrudgingly.
I’m gonna disagree with you here – if you’re pestering me before sunrise, either the house is on fire or it IS villainy.
She is indeed a born politician.
She doesn’t even get the feel-good meds today! She has to take the sugar pill today! She can literally lay in bed until her period is over before going to get the GD birth control!
A fool, foolishly: Jennifer is the bad guy here because reasons
Another fool, just as foolishly: No Dorothy is the villain here because reasons
A third fool, the most foolish: JOYCE is the bad guy because
Me, enlightened, filled with the vast and infinite knowledge of the universe and universes beyond: Dorothy, charisma is demonstrated by wrestling Jennifer to the ground and making out with her there
Many are saying this
They’re both stressed out and dealing with some stuff. You know what’s a good way to relieve stress for a while? Gay makeouts. It’s just smart emotional/mental health management, when you think about it.
OK let’s be honest this ain’t about Joyce.
We all know about the Yale thing and it’s one of two things. Either Dorothy ” Did the one thing she convinced us all she wasn’t going to do and passed up on tale to stay with friends” or “Yale is in her grasp but is hesitant between going or staying with the others” and Joyce and a few others are not making this easy Either way.
Oooor she got in and she’s just trying to make what time she has left with all of them matter and it’s going to shit.
Yeah, I’m so glad someone said this. I think she’s coming to grips with the fact that she’d be leaving everyone behind, and lashing out from the stress of the decision.
She worries about leaving Joyce to fend for herself and is resentful that Jennifer is able to do so much less and not *worry* about Joyce the way she does. And she knows that if/when she leaves, Jennifer won’t step up to fill in for her, since Jennifer already thinks she’s doing so much.
Agreed that Dorothy needs to know that someone’s going to take care of Joyce after she’s gone, because obviously Joyce is incapable of doing so herself…
Oooh, this makes a lot of sense. Thank you both for this analysis.
It’s okay Dorothy. You’re a good Joyce!Mom.
https://imgur.com/a/xBGxfGb
I promised.
Also I’m trying to do lines and color more often.
Yessssssss
😍😍😍 PERFECT!!!
Very nice, though this is like the second time one of your art pieces left me wondering about the height of certain characters. Is Dorothy taller than Billie? Because if she is that would make her as tall as Ruth if that was the case and I don’t know if that tracks.
But still very nice, liking you went extra mile with this one.
Jennifer’s lifting her by the waist.
cute, for some reason i got a ‘peanuts’ vibes from this tho i was never really into that series haha
Go Jennifer. Now you your arms around her.
*put*
I don’t know if I’m in the minority here, but I have never in my life obtained medication so soon after getting it prescribed unless the pharmacy was in the same building as the doctor’s office and I could get it on the way out.
It’s crazy to me that Dorothy forced Joyce to get hers in the day immediately after her doctor’s appointment like it was a goddamn emergency (it’s not, it’s not even going to alleviate Joyce’s current physical pain) and then has the gall to complain that it was difficult to do
Here’s a thought Dorothy: don’t do it then! nobody asked you to! especially not Joyce!
depending on the medication, it might not even be there if you have a ‘rarer’ issue, right? unless after/during when the doctor writes up the prescription for you, their secretary/assistant calls up the pharmacy and informs them to order/stock what’s needed versus stuff that’s already there , or it might not be open (i’m sure 24 pharmacies might be a thing but i know american healthcare is a mess) or ppl would be busy with their jobs/lives because of capitalism and personal issues and such
And considering ‘placebos’ were mentioned maybe they should’ve gotten her like tylenol/midol and put it off til joyce was more comfortable
Birth control isn’t rare though. It would be stocked at a college pharmacy. The odder thing to me is that she didn’t get it immediately after the appointment. At my college, the pharmacy was in the same building as the rest of the health center, and you picked up prescriptions on your way out of appointments.
other than like, blood tests and a weight check and such to see what you’re ‘compatible’ with, it’s a shame you can’t just buy some without a prescription (though joyce is getting it to reduce pain/stop her period versus planning on being sexually active so maybe she is getting a specific brand but yeah shame it has to be complicated, political ‘discourse’ aside, health is already enough of a drag)
Here’s a thought: Maybe we, as the audience, can perhaps just accept the internal logic of the comic that it is, in fact, important for Joyce to start taking her medicine ASAP, whether or not that aligns with our personal experience or even reality at large. It’s a comic whose writing must be dictated to some extent by pacing and a need for conflict, and it is therefore okay for it to be occasionally unrealistic.
Or, we could just agree to disagree and you can stop posting essentially this comment on EVERY STRIP WITH DOROTHY IN IT. It’s becoming very annoying.
It aligns with my experience. I just got some birth control to stop my period for the same reason as Joyce, and the doctor told me to start it as soon as I get my next period. It’s not gonna do fuck all for the current cycle (that’s what the Advil she prescribed me was for) but the earlier in your cycle you start, the more likely it is that it’ll affect the next one. So while it may not be medically essential to start now, it IS better for Joyce to start it now, and the doctor probably told her to go ASAP and get it.
And speaking as a fellow Joyce? Yeah, I’m way more likely to go ‘eh, I don’t NEED to need to right now’ if I’m not currently in the debilitating pain and I have school shit to get done. I couldn’t imagine how hard it’d be to make myself go if I had actual issues with birth control owing to my upbringing. And given Joyce herself has told Dorothy that sometimes it is necessary to make her do unpleasant but needed things? I can’t fault Dorothy for going ‘Okay, we’re going’. Especially because Dorothy OFFERED to go pick them up FOR her. Sarah said no, but Joyce didn’t. She told them to leave her room, which Dorothy agreed to do and the next time we see them they are together and Joyce goes to the pharmacy willingly until she starts being anxious when they get closer.
“Shut up, it’s a comic” isn’t very conducive to discussions though, is it?
It’s almost like I’m actively trying to shut down this angle of discussion because I’m freaking tired of it.
I mean this in a very nice, polite and semi-friendly (informal) way, but that rarely works around here. In fact, from my own experience, it’s now more likely to come up now that you’ve expressed exhaustion. People take that personally.
I mean I have no skin in the game either way, but the comic itself pointed out that Joyce would start with placebos since she’s still on her period. I can accept that everybody wanted her to get it done so she can get used to it and not continue to freak out, and that ‘Dorothy sat down and thought about how Joyce didn’t actually need to pick up her rx yet’ isn’t as good for pacing as ‘lets go get them right now,’ but it’s hard to say even in universe that the need was SUPER URGENT enough that it couldn’t technically have waited until she was feeling a little better at least.
It’s better to get the placebos out of the way on your period so that the actual meds have time to work for your next cycle. That’s why earlier is better, at least according to my OB.
Couldn’t you just start with the actual meds instead of the placebos, if you’re starting at a different time in the cycle?
Hypothetically, yes, but they still work better the sooner and more consistently you take them so even if you toss the sugar pills in the garbage, earlier is still better, even if you only ever use the actual medication.
as Taffy said: ““Shut up, it’s a comic” is just you not wanting to engage in conversation/analysis; which is fine for you, but then why reply this to me? I clearly want to dissect this part of the comic. You’re not required to engage with me or the subjects I’m interested in.
And I’ll keep bringing it up as long as it’s a central point of the day’s comic, which is certainly the case today. Because I think Dorothy fucked up real bad and now she’s complaining that it was hard for her.
(Assuming that you’ve known this comic for years) DoA has often touched several nerves when it comes to sensitive issues, be it death-cult evangelism, homophobia from your own parents, suicidal ideation, etc; and every time there’s several comments about the subject.
If the comic keeps bringing up sore subjects, are the commenters supposed to shut up and wait till the end of the storyline to analyze them? Has that actually happened before?
“Maybe we, as the audience, can perhaps just accept the internal logic of the comic that it is, in fact, important for Joyce to start taking her medicine ASAP”
I mean it has happened more than once within this comic that a character’s logic is proven to be completely wrong, so I’m not quite willing to accept that Dorothy’s logic is the same as the comic’s internal logic.
I’m not over Dorothy *yelling* at Joyce for not having picked up meds the same day she got a prescription when, between the choice of going immediately to the pharmacy or going home and going to bed, only one of these was going to offer Joyce immediate physical relief after a very trying day. (Hint: it wasn’t the hormonal birth control, which not only not would have kicked in instantly, but she wouldn’t even be TAKING during the duration of this period, since she’d be starting off on sugar pills.)
BC pills are taken in a specific sequence and timing, so they’re pre-packaged. The pharmacy would just have a stack of them, right, here you go, do you have any questions for the pharmacist?
My $0.02: I have never in my life waited more than a day to pick up my prescriptions. In my experience, if you tell your doctor’s office which pharmacy you use, they’ll send the ‘scrip ahead and unless it’s unique/controlled medication (or the kind of thing that can’t be administered at home) they’ll have it ready by the time you get there.
And even when they didn’t send it ahead, I still hit the pharmacy on the way home from my appointment. The only reason I wouldn’t have done so was if A: I didn’t have the money at the time or B: I didn’t actually want the medicine.
My doctor sends prescriptions to the pharmacy via the internet and I get a text saying it’s ready in a couple of hours, so ymmv
Depends on the prescription. Most things that are in stock are ready within a few hours. Some can be even sooner. Some things I’ve needed aren’t common and it takes a few days (or sometimes longer) to get them ready.
Something like this though – they don’t even need to fill a bottle with the right number of pills. Her BC likely comes in a standard package. She walked in with a paper prescription and walked out minutes later.
Also, looking at IU’s health center – there is a pharmacy on site. Not quite in the doctor’s office, but in the same building.
When I’ve needed prescriptions for something, I usually ended up getting them a few hours after seeing the doctor and getting prescribed them. I can understand not getting them soon after if you’re busy or whatever, but my experience has been almost always getting them the same day as I saw a doctor.
Come on, Billie, you’re the one who was getting hot for her yesterday.
just ‘vague’ tho. quickly lost but that would be an interesting dynamic and diff enough from ruth/jen
That’s cuz this is the most charismatic Jennifer’s ever found her. She went from not being on her radar to turning her on in an instant.
By “charismatic”, she means hits her kinks.
Also this, and yes y’all can apply this to my comment below.
Billie knows Dorothy can be charismatic, but she also knows Dotty doesn’t know how to use it
Something something panel four book title.
I like panel five for that.
Why not panel three?
This does seem like an incredibly odd conflict. I know B-uh, Jennifer, was smug and annoying, but with how much of that Dorothy shrugs off from Becky, I’m not sure why it is getting to her so much here.
Maybe it’s the added stress of deciding whether to transfer to Yale and leave her friends behind, especially the one who seems to need a lot of help?
yeah i would’ve expected her to snap at becky too at some point or maybe she knows it’s all in jest/fairly lighthearted and becky doesn’t have any real ill intentions towards her versus becky having a personality like malaya’s or so. (i don’t dislike becky, tho i don’t like every aspect of her either though she doesn’t come off as ‘grating’ to me even when she’s trying to needle dorothy, though i probably would be annoyed irl/if i was the one being jabbed at in that situation)
My read on this right now – and this is very much speculation – is that Dorothy isn’t really particularly mad at Jennifer; she’s mad at Joyce, but doesn’t want to take it out on her because a) Dorothy loves Joyce a bit too much for that, and b) it’s not Joyce’s fault she has menstrual pain and was raised in a repressive, misogynist cult. So, she’s directing that anger and frustration toward the next best target. There may well be other stressors that have been building up under the surface, but that feels like the immediate thing.
Also because Dorothy is an obsessive micromanager and Joyce has kind of set herself up as a codependent which Joyce has grown to resent.
Yes, I thinks she’s really just still damaged from the kidnapping and has been stuffing it all down so she doesn’t injure the primary victims again with her anger or frustration. Becky and Joyce have been going after her constantly, she’s stressed about her grades, worried about flunking out at her dream school, worried about leaving her vulnerable friends. Billie on the other hand richly deserves some abuse and can clearly take it judging from the way she fished it out.
I don’t read Jennifer as smug. I read it as, “Sorry I got in your way, but what’s the big deal?”
To the degree that I read Jennifer as smug, it’s a flirtatious smug, in keeping with “angry Dotty hot” from yesterday—like, if she’s smug at all (a big inference that may be untrue) it’s to keep Dorothy in this moment of sexy, sexy anger.
>it’s to keep Dorothy in this moment of sexy, sexy anger.
That sounds unhealthy as fuck, to be honest.
I mean…yeah, of course it does, because Jennifer is into that unhealthy shit (see: her whole relationship with Ruth and its basis in oneupmanship, a mutual suicide pact, physical violence, etc.)
“Go Leafs.” 🙂
I’m starting to be won over on dorothy/Joyce (Doryce?). I’m gonna go see what’s on AO3
Narrator: She’s dead.
Joythy? (Joyothy?)
i don’t mind a mix/mash of literal names but i find it cute when they get specific terms (though pokemon can get a little odd/i assume the ones that get popular are the ones chosen by an already popular artist who’s the first to make amazing fanart and everyone agrees) Something like “strawberry lemonade” for some kinda bittersweet pair or simply b/c their color schemes are pink/yellow lol (can’t think of anything off the top of my head for dorothy/joyce tho)
My favorite ship name ever is probably “Gruulfriends” for Chandra and Nissa from Magic: the Gathering.
Did a quick look-see, and it looks like there’s exactly one Joyce/Dorothy fic on AO3, out of a total of 18 DoA fics.
…there’s also apparently a Carol-centric fic by that one commenter who left a needlessly-personal “fuck Willis I’m out” comment accusing them of blaming God for their mother’s actions during the Faith-Off. Not sure if that’s sad, hilarious, or both.
Lmao that guy
I scanned the Carol fic but I didn’t notice the “fuck this” comment.
It was in the comment section a while back when Becky and Joyce first got into the atheism argument.
A lot of people seem to have taken that particular argument super personally. I can’t fathom getting so upset over a basic depiction of my religion.
I would vote for Dorothy, but politics tends to reward bad people over good people.
never really hear about the ‘good’ politicians, or ppl jaded enough to think everything is a pr move
i’m not sure what the ‘mayors’ of cities/towns do but i was surprised to learn my town/city even had one considering it was a small town/suburb of a bigger city so not sure if they did anything or was just a glorified leader (because i’m sure there’s small towns to where ‘nothing happens’ to the point where ppl elect cats/dogs for mayor)
i doubt we’d get a dorothy spinoff/flashforward but i suppose realistically she’d have to get her hands dirty/do some things that goes against her morals to even get halfway there
i love how jennifer immediately respects alpha bongo dibs as a concept.
i don’t think she’d have any interest in joyce that way but i wouldn’t be surprised if she ever did a “i’m gonna steal him/her/them away from you because i can” in some cases lol
anon:
1.) I swear it was established that Jennifer is a master of the “steal your significant other” art form, or at least in aiding with it, given that she helped Sarah aim Joyce at Jacob
2.) I have a mighty need for a scenario where Jennifer threatens to steal Joyce as a way of stealthily Gettin’ With Dorothy
Ignoring who’s right and who’s wrong here, Dorothy came on very aggressive and Billifer is responding with a very smug and dismissive “u mad bro” attitude. This isn’t actually fixing anything and even if one or the other does have good points to make, they will not be made as long as they’re both acting like this.
Counterpoint: They can both make good points by angrily making out
listen, I know jennifer likes to believe angrily making out is a good point, but at this point i wouldn’t say she has a good track reckord.
Some theories deserve to be really, really rigorously tested, okay?
this is projectiooooooooooooooon
Here’s a bit of an odd theory, but as self-centered and dismissive as Billie is, I really think she’s more of the friend Joyce needs at this time. It’s obvious that Joyce has grown to resent Dorothy’s obsessive micromanaging and Joyce has come to resent her codependence on her. Billie seems to understand that Joyce needs to do for herself at her own pace.
This implies Jennifer sees other people as people.
Between the incident the previous day with Ruth and her reaction to this argument, Jennifer seems to be operating under the belief that if someone gets mad at you, then that makes you in the right.
Which is very much in keeping with her ‘teenager who thinks she’s emotionally mature now’ deal.
I’m just so fucking tired of all these friends being angry and bitter with each other constantly. Every goddamn scene is an argument. Every conflict is between people I’ve grown to love. It feels like this is the only character interaction we get anymore: somebody (including Joyce) being shitty to or about Joyce.
Glad I’m not the only one who’s feeling kinda burnt out by the character interactions of late. Ever since the faith-off everything just feels so… cynical, bitter, jaded. And even the occasional sweet parts I’m just waiting for the cynicism to come crashing in and ruin it (Danny/Sal, Becky/Dina).
Both of those relationships are already so bad though?
What part of Danny/Sal is even a little bit bad? I can’t think of a single negative aspect of their relationship. They’re cute as fuck. I know people accused Danny of being basically a creepy grooming stalker who was trying to control Sal, but that was entirely made up by the comment section’s imaginations and didn’t reflect the actual events of the comic.
I know I’m going to regret asking, but: how, exactly? I truly cannot parse this idea. Taffy pointed out the facts about Danny/Sal adroitly, and like, what exactly is wrong with Dina/Becky, unless we are subscribed to the idea that Becky is a hell-creature that feeds on suffering?
Come to think of it, during the Big Fuck Arc, wasn’t Dina accused of being a manipulative sex pest toward Becky and also too autistic to understand consent? I guess there’s also her constant bafflement and horror regarding Becky’s fundie upbringing, which people insist is the same thing as a complete lack of respect for Becky as a person.
Did people really comment this about the two couples??? How does any of that even make sense??? I’m stunned
Taffy: oh God yeah they did say that, or that Dina was doing some kind of Dawkins-esque project to force Becky away from religion, rather than, y’know, being happy she and Becky banged without Becky torturing herself mentally
I thought it might be a possibility, only because Dina had just explicitly learned in character that “sometimes when somebody says they don’t want to talk about it, maybe they want you to make them talk about it” and I was worried she’d overgeneralize.
Especially since Becky kind of did want to be pushed. Kind of.
THERE SURE WAS. There was at least one person who said that Dina was a sexual predator (or something equivalent, the precise wording escapes me but it was not ambiguous) because she had sex with Becky after Becky vocally and enthusiastically agreed to have sex and kept vocally agreeing to it during the sex (well, so I hear from folks who read the Slipshine, I didn’t read it myself) because in the PAST Becky had said she wanted to wait until marriage.
Because apparently the way consent works is not only “you can change your mind and say no at any point, even if you said yes in the past” but also that a “no” in the past trumps any future “yeses”. Changing your mind only goes one way, I guess!
I worry about some of these folks. That ain’t a healthy understanding of the mental framework of sex and consent.
That has been the case often enough, but Dorothy and Jennifer aren’t friends.
They stayed on the same floor of the same dorm and shared Walky and friends in common.
But, while they don’t generally antagonize each other (like Becky towards Dorothy) or hate each other (like Sarah towards Jennifer, and pretty much everyone), they do not tend to think about or worry about each other, seek out each other for advice, hang out with each other, or even like each other.
There sure has been a lot of intense arguing, yeah.
I’ve started mostly avoiding the comments because I am tired of seeing Dorothy being bashed for every single strip she is in and people demanding endless empathy for Joyce.
I am not actively currently invested in any of the current plotlines and am at the point of Argument Induced Apathy where I am losing interest in who is right and who is wrong and just want people to be nice to each other again.
I don’t know about “endless empathy for Joyce”, I’m personally just hoping for more than we’re seeing. And also less attacks on people like Joyce or who have that empathy.
Yeah, I’m on the same page, frankly. If I were Dorothy I’d just leave Joyce to it, but, heck, people would complain about that too.
Wow, Jenny. It’s almost as if you can’t hear yourself talk. Trying to make this about Dorothy doesn’t change the fact that you dealt the damage and they’re suffering the repercussions. If you were really Ms. Problem Solver, you would’ve stuck through to the end.
I committed to signing up for a Gravatar.
Now I am EVERYWHERE. >:D
Jennifer is a problem solver. Everything beyond that would require her to actually give a shit about other people.
….what damage did Jennifer do here? The framing I keep seeing where Jennifer did a BAD THING by suggesting that Joyce see a doctor about her debilitating cramps, and moreover, that this is legitimately a form of harm directed at Dorothy is….a take.
It’s a really, really weird take that does not seem to be connected to reality in any meaningful way, but I guess it is a take.
She unfairly criticised Dorothy and Becky for not ‘taking care’ of Joyce and then when Dorothy actually listens to her because she doesn’t like feeling like a bad friend, guess what, Joyce doesn’t appreciate it, so she still feels like a bad friend and like Jennifer can stfu forever on top of that.
So the only damage was to Dorothy’s ego, which is absolutely not Billie’s problem or fault. It’s a mild blow at worst and she’s already stressed out as it is.
That’s a real crime against humanity right there
Jennifer suggesting Joyce see a doctor does not negate her incredibly insulting view of others.
Jennifer literally did no damage in this situation. Dorothy’s the one that keeps doing damage by insisting on running Joyce’s life, and then she complains that, gosh, she has to run Joyce’s life.
I’m reminded of that bicycle meme, in this particular situation.
Joyce running in that last panel is a stellar adition to the usual format, kudos.
Thing is, Jennifer absolutely agrees Dorothy should be running Joyce’s life. They’re just in conflict about how to do that.
Jennifer agrees that Dorothy should run Joyce’s life in the same way I think that von Doom is the best comic book villain: it’s not that it’s great for anybody involved, it’s just that Jennifer thinks that’s the only way Dorothy is interesting.
You could read that here, but if you go back to the first scene with her finding out about Joyce’s illness – “Why aren’t you solving this?” and something like “I thought you two could take care of her when I wasn’t around.”
Seems pretty clear to me that they both think someone needs to be running Joyce’s life.
You’ll note that Jennifer’s approach to Joyce is “here are options, what do you want to do?” and not “and now we’re going to do this.”
Dorothy’s running Joyce’s life, Jennifer put up street signs and let Joyce drive.
Right. The difference is the tactics. Jennifer’s seem to work better.
The question is what would she have done if it hadn’t worked straight off? How would she have “solved this”? It’s clear that she would still have thought she had to.
something something nat 0 something something
Charisma check meme
God damn.
Okay. I’ll be Jojo forever but I’m not blind. This is getting PRETTY gay.
Shoutout to Jennifer for thinking she’s the dedicated Charisma Barometer.
So, what Jennifer is suggesting here to Dorothy is… to “claim” Joyce for herself and use her possessiveness over her as a source of determination and energy that could help her show that infamous charisma to others? This is terrible! Dorothy would never accept such a situation and probably Joyce too! But it is true that angry Dorothy is an unusual and fascinating thing to see. It’s pretty sure Jennifer is shipping Dorothy and Joyce now.
It’s almost as if Jennifer’s only concept of a relationship is:
a) romantic
b) authoritative
Now I want to see she and Asher together more for understand if he’s authoritative and when.
I think she’s just suggesting that Dorothy is into Joyce romantically and should try dating her, because whatever Dorothy is actually feeling, this is not how people typically behave about their completely platonic friends.
Agree. That’s unusual and probably Dorothy really is in love and don’t knows that. But maybe this could be the case where Dorothy see Joyce as a (little) sister who needs help for everything.
Clearly the problem is with Dorothy, because Jenny is ‘healthy’ now.
That last sentence reads very oddly without a question mark.
Is Dotty gonna besmirch her perfect record by initiating a violent encounter due to stress? I like the idea that this is just jealousy, but she looks about to crack.
If Dorothy lost control and slap Jennifer in the face this could become a massacre. Because Jennifer is still angry for the situation with Ruth happened the day before.
Ohhhhhh yeah, if this comes to Dorothy vs Jennifer, my money ain’t on Dorothy.
[channeling Marie Kondo] I love mess
Sometimes when people are having an argument, neither side is right. That’s what we’re seeing here.
Yes. So calm about it.
I sometimes feel like people forget that Dorothy was also kidnapped, and traumatized by the same stuff that Joyce was, and is also probably very much mentally not okay, and possibly might be overcorrecting by trying to be there more for Joyce (coming off as overbearing) and overly tolerant of Becky.
Dorothy’s not getting the help she needs, she’s turning it into “Grain for her griss mill” and swallowing it all down, she’s starting to crack and she clearly doesn’t want to accept that she herself is hurt and needs help.
Damn that kidnapping shook a lot of people up, it’s funny how one incident can ripple and affect things in bigger ways.
Yeah this is pretty clearly just the beginning of her trauma induced explosion. Prepare for crying folks!
Frankly, it’s an amazing credit that she’s held it together this long. Or possibly extremely unhealthy. I can’t decide.
In some circles they are one and the same!
Ain’t that the truth.
It’s both amazing AND unhealthy!
AMAZI-UNHEALTHY!
She was kidnapped just like Joyce and had to watch helplessly as Blaine drove off with Joyce again, despite her best efforts to stop him and help her. I definitely think that’s impacting her need to make sure she takes Perfect Care of Joyce right now, to the extent of being overprotective and micromanaging.
That’s a very cogent point!
Yeah, Dorothy is not okay, I wasn’t gonna say anything but one can only see so many “Fuck off Dorothy, Joyce is going through trauma” posts before I had to finally point out. “Yeah, Dorothy was there, she also went through the trauma”
Hell Dorothy had to stay and keep it together for the police, she’s falling apart at the seams.
It’s definitely getting old now. Strip after strip, people going on about “Dorothy forced Joyce to do X and Y” “Joyce is a grown woman”… nah, Joyce is a massive mess, as has been shown in virtually every single situation, and if Dorothy ditched her, it’d be something else for readers to bongo about Dorothy for.
Okay. So, here is how things are.
Dorothy ignores Joyce’s period issues because she assumes she’ll have to fight Joyce on a solution. Like she did on the glasses but worse.
Jennifer shows up, calls Dorothy a bad friend, tells Joyce medication could help, and Joyce says sure.
Dorothy, now on board, immediately scedules Joyce an appointment at the clinic.
Jennifer calls Joyce a “maternal vulture” then takes Joyce to a walk-in appointment.
Joyce neglects to pick up her prescription because she gets told she might be autistic.
Dorothy tries to help Joyce via education. Because Dorothy finds comfort in knowledge. Dorothy’s attempts maje Joyce feel worse.
Jennifer returns and successfully makes Joyce feel better by basically telling her that her emotions are still real.
Dorothy learns that (a) Joyce isn’t taking her medication and (b) hasn’t even picked it up.
Dorothy offers to pick up the medication for her since (a) she’s in pain and (b) she doesn’t want to be seen picking up birth control.
Sarah shoots this down so Dorothy ends up taking Joyce in person.
Joyce refused to enter the clinic unless Dorothy pretended to be her girlfriend.
Joyce spent the entire morning fighting Dorothy on every step and and tells her off at the end. …conveniently ignoring how in the end she did need Dorothy to pick up the pills.
So…
Dorothy identifies Joyce has an eye problem that’s impacting her life and makes her get glasses. Joyce is upset she needs to wear glasses.
Dorothy identifies Joyce has a problem with her periods, but decides not to intervene this time. Jennifer gets upset and it turns out Joyce is okay with going to the doctor this time.
Dorothy tries to help by scheduling an appointment and Jennifer insults her again before taking Joyce to a walk-in.
Joyce is upset over her potential autism and Dorothy’s attempts to comfort her (via knowledge of the subject) make Joyce feel worse. Jennifer makes Joyce feel better.
Next day Dorothy checks in and Joyce doesn’t even have her medication. Joyce reacts negatively to Dorothy’s shock.
Dorothy, acknowledging Joyce’s pain and hang-ups offers to puck up the prescription for her. Sarah tells her off for babying Joyce.
Dorothy takes Joyce to the clinic and at her insistence pretends to be Joyce’s girlfriend. Dorothy also has to pick up the instructions for Joyce. Joyce is upset with Dorothy for making her come here. The Pharmacist however validates Dorothy.
So… Dorothy is a bad friend for making Joyce go to the doctor for a problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for NOT offering to take Joyce to the doctor for a second problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for trying to help with the second problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for failing to successfully comfort Joyce. Dorothy is a bad friend for following up on Joyce’s second medical problem. Dorothy is a bad friend for offering to pick Joyce’s medication for her. Dorothy is a bad friend for taking Joyce to the clinic to pick up her medication. (Ignoring how we have solud evidence Joyce needed Dorothy present to do so herself).
Dorothy has been Joyce’s friend every day. Yet in the past days, Dorothy has been implicitly and explicitly called a bad friend no matter what choice she makes.
Jennifer who is literally not present or ignoring Joyce most of the time can do no wrong.
I can understand why Dorothy needs to vent and am personally glad she’s blowing up at Jennifer instead of Joyce.
Though Jennifer obviously has no idea why Dorothy’s upset.
Shit. Forgot to delete a couple paragraphs.
I was gonna say, I wasn’t sure if you were repeating points for like, arts sake or something.
Heavy! Now I can’t stop imagining Dorothy crying angrily in a fetal position alone in the dark room after Joyce left forever.
That’s a really good summary.
Charisma works by undermining everyone who actually does their job and hopes that nobody notices she’s not doing hers. Then she blames everyone else when things blow up because her job wasn’t done (or if things blow up for some other reason.)
Oh, wait, sorry, that’s Kharisma, and she’s from a different comic universe. Sorry, never mind! 😉
She also doesn’t really do any of that anymore. Now she’s highly self-sufficient and cynical while also being an incredibly kind person.
Basically she did an complete 180 from how she started
Did she really? Or is this just survival mode?
Maybe some people can determine these things before hand, but I don’t know people well enough to make that determination until they return to a situation where they could engage in their old behavior. I’d say “reasonably”, but it was never reasonable behavior in the first place, and there’s never a time when it would be reasonable. Well, unless one is secretly a spy sent to undermine the place, and by not doing ones for show job, one is doing ones actual job.
Dorothy would start with Google Scholar and move to Psych Abstracts.
The book she should read is The Invisible Storm by Jason Kander. A look at the reality of US politics and dealing with trauma.
Dorothy is overbearing, but Jennifer’s complete inability to see any fault on her intervention is sadly in character
Yikes, Dorothy. Now you don’t just need to codependently control Joyce, but also control who her friends are? Oof.
This interaction gives me satisfaction.
They both kinda have a point
Billie showed up, said “do this” and then when Joyce felt embarrassed, Dorothy had to pick up her slack
You can’t just pop in and out and get involved when you want to, you either get involved or you don’t, you can’t just tip toe that
*pours out own brain through ear*
Dorothy needs to settle down, before someone calls the cops on her. She’s lucky Billie hasn’t done so already. This outburst qualifies for at least six different legal charges in the Real World, which is something that Matters.
Pffft, it’s only Chambrain if it comes from the Chambrain region of France. That’s merely sparkling neurons.
I am legally required to +1 all variants on this joke.
Genuinely curious: What charges could reasonably be brought against Dorothy for this?
Taffy is being hyperbolic in a way to sort of poke fun at the comment section and how Srs Bsns ™ things in the comic tend to be taken.
Ahh yeah that flew completely over my head. Fair enough lmao
Apropos of nothing, I just watched all 4 seasons of “The Ethical Slut” on YouTube. It’s got aspects worth critiquing, but it’s also nice to see representation on film for poly love.
I’ve never read “the Ethical Slut” but it was recommended to me back in the day. Back another lifetime ago.