/*JUST* finished reading an autobio about being a child of an alcoholic and finding the lack of COMPLETE dysfunction in the lives of nonalcoholic families, frankly, *a miracle* when it happens in their own family
Yep. And here’s Ms Billingsworth, utterly unable to process that getting away from Ruth’s imbalance is exactly what Ruth wanted for her. Because Ruth can’t find love for herself.
Or he’s mentioned/Jennifer’s known “powerful” but he’s been cagey with precisely HOW he is powerful to potentially dangerous extents, which I suspect is the case with Raidah and co. (Given the emphasis we’ve seen Raidah put on her friends’ families being influential and the specific WAYS being things like big-name lawyers and such, I don’t think “My grandpa is a mob boss but I’m on the outs with him” is one she’d really take to. Even if she’s okay with “mob boss”, “leaving the mob” is a lack of influence and in fact a possibly dangerous one. That’s reputation poison.)
I could see Jennifer, investigative reporter extraordinaire, knowing Asher’s grandfather is a big investor in local businesses, super influential in the community, and Asher admits to her that his Gramps is bad news or something and he’s trying to get away from that all, Gramps didn’t want that, and her conclusion is NOT “He’s a mob boss, and by the way Asher stole a ton of money from him which will be very very dangerous if he ever finds out.”
Now, most likely, since she made the connection from “sleeping with one eye open” to “Asher’s GRANDFATHER, specifically, and not Asher himself,” Jennifer knows, but I’m not ruling out the possibility she thinks he’s like, economically/politically dangerous and not murderously dangerous, and Asher either assumes he told her enough and she seemed to get it enough that she made the connection or has let her remain ignorant of the true extent of it. If only because that would bring back the “Sal is Amazi-Girl” reasoning we know and love, but this time under very dramatic circumstances, AND leave us the audience screaming in agony once it becomes clear because SAL assumes she knows, ASHER maybe assumes she knows, WALKY AND AMBER AND AG would know from Sal that she knows, and JENNIFER doesn’t actually know until that gun finally fires. It would leave us damning Willis’s name to high heaven, and it would therefore be great.
Rhetorical question, should have linked the relevant comic to make that clear.
Asher’s family are major bad news and with him, sure, he’s probably not going to flip a table, but Uncle might come around with a cadaver and a hacksaw asking for a favour.
True, but you are not your family. I’m pretty sure we learned this with Joyce and Becky. And sure, Asher seems to be involved in some minute way but not really in a way that anyone in the comic could call him on. For all they know he hates his parents and their activities as much as Amber hates her father.
Amber and Becky’s fathers would also have been significant sources of worry and instability. Asher could be the best intentioned, sweetest boyfriend ever and he’d still be a source of well founded stress and concern because his family are dangerous mobsters and he is not out of it as much as he wants to be.
Doesn’t mean you should stop dating someone because of their family. Like Sal’s not her mom, Joyce isn’t her mom, and Mary isn’t her parents, who are apparently very nice people.
I’m not making a moral judgement, I’m stating a fact.
Asher is trapped in a web with some extremely dangerous people, and dating him means getting tangled up with all of that. I’m not making a moral judgement there either, but it is decidedly not stable and worry-free.
Asher will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life, and so long as you’re in his orbit you probably should be too.
So what’s your point? Cuz it sounds like you’re saying Jennifer should NOT date him because of his family? As if that is comparable to your actual partner being abusive. There is literally no other way to take this. Asher should not be allowed to find love or happiness because he was born to the wrong family, by your logic. What’s the point of living at that point?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand, Thag is only referencing what Jeniffer herself said? Like, she’s saying her new friends are more care-free and safe (compared to Ruth) and that is very arguable, particularly so Asher with his general situation. Leave him or keep him, she’s saying this either to spite Ruth, or because she doesn’t know, otherwise, this statement would make no sense. She can be with whoever she wants, but her stated reasons (here) to be with them don’t quite work.
I would also call Dina choosing to date Becky an unstable situation because of Becky’s precarious position and dangerous family member, even though Becky herself did nothing wrong. That doesn’t mean it was a mistake, it just means it was a risk
The risk isn’t being acknowledged by what Jennifer says here. And I’m not even going to judge. It’s hard to say how much Jennifer knows (although I’m going to guess less than she should) and what she does know she has no obligation to share with Ruth, especially when it’d undercut her argument.
What I’m saying is there is a market difference between “My SO is gonna put me through a table” and “My SO’s crazy family will put me through a table. It’s the dynamic behind that which is tthe problem. If Becky’s dad hit Dina that’d be bad. If Becky started hitting Dina that’d be unacceptable.The risk isn’t devoid of the context that you’re kinda removing from it.
You’re arguing against a point I wasn’t making. Literally all I’m saying is that what Jennifer says she’s getting with her new relationship and what she’s actually getting don’t match up.
And my point is that Jennifer has no reason to feel at risk of that happening. At least at the moment Asher not raidah has made a threat or action making her think they’ll lock themselves in a room or flip a table at her. And we’re only on edge about that happening as outside observers who know that could pose a problem. “What she’s getting” is conjecture at this point. We can assume it’ll come to a head at some point but for now Asher has proven himself to be a chill dude, which is more than what we can say for Ruth and Jennifer’s relationship even at its inception. And I feel like Jennifer’s statement here is much more pointedly describing being bullied and worried about her SO self harming or getting aggressive than she is of some third party attacking them.
Granted he could be hurt or killed by the mob and that could have some psychological trauma for Jennifer but I feel like that’s not the same as the actions she’s comparing them to in reference to Ruth. This isn’t a just “I’ll never have to worry about getting hurt again”. It is very pointedly “I don’t have to worry about you hurting me or yourself anymore.”
Asher stole a bunch of money from the mob and then had a hit ordered on a murderer who tried to blackmail him. He’s a chill dude and I do think he’s sincere, but there is mortal danger here for him and for Jennifer.
Stealing money from the literal mob is a good deed. What happened with Blaine was on the exact same moral level as removing a stain from a carpet. Any reprisal he gets for either of those things is automatically disproportionate.
Thag, I think part of what’s tripping people up is that what you’re saying Jennifer is saying isn’t what she said. Jennifer didn’t say anything about people’s families being level, stable, not likely to do violent stuff, etc. Her point isn’t about danger but about how emotionally difficult it is to care about someone who is emotionally unstable, sporadically violent, and self-destructive. You’re making this about people’s families and danger when what she’s complaining about with Ruth was Ruth herself having issues.
Sal knows one VERY important fact in which he is very actively NOT involved with the family business, but which is still very very dangerous: He stole money from Gramps to pay his college tuition. A LOT of money. Enough money that a mob stooge could figure it out and blackmail him, and enough money therefore that if Gramps somehow does find out, he’s screwed. Which also leaves him susceptible to blackmailing again.
The fact that Asher is not so far out of the mob that he’s willing to fall back on them to at least some extent to deal with the blackmail is something none of the cast know except Asher (and maybe Lester the dirty cop, or maybe someone else), but that is also very dangerous indeed.
Basically I tend to think that if you’re trying to escape from your mobster family by robbing them, you should get as far out of their sphere of influence as you possibly can, worry about everything else AFTER you’re far far away, and Asher’s still in a city where there are cops on Gramps’s take. Which is not NEARLY far enough. Even if he genuinely thinks he’s out for now, and that’s a VERY open question, he’s not, because he’s still in range for people to recognize and blackmail him and potentially fake his suicide if that’s deemed necessary. If he’s serious about getting out he needs to keep running.
You know, I never assumed that Asher called the hit due to the blackmail material, I thought it was “This man forced me to turn on people I like, and may try to do it again”.
Literally the only casualties of that whole ordeal were guys nobody liked in the first place. Next we’ll be condemning Batman when he finally kills the Gomer.
I always wonder if she and Asher already knew each other in the past. They did grow up in the same town, would her parents have cared (or prodded deeply enough to know) that another wealthy family in town was Mob Rich instead of legit, or would the two of have been chucked together with any other kids in the same age range at various society functions over the years?
Well, Ruth’s grandfather was in the war – sliding timescale says take your pick on which, but unless it was EXCLUSIVELY WW2, if he didn’t order murders he certainly went around commiting them, with a high possibility of war crimes.
Ruth’s grandpa probably hasn’t killed anyone since he left the military. He’s major bad news but he doesn’t seem to be in the same league as ‘head of local crime syndicate’ in terms of concerning relatives.
Sure, Jennifer. Keep telling yourself all of that.
Try to convince yourself you finally have everything just how you want… until you inevitably fuck it up and have to walk away from the wreckage. Again.
Given that her new “level and stable” friends are only pretending to like her, I don’t think she’ll have to do anything but wait.
This one came fucked up.
As someone on Patreon pointed out – she calls them Raidah’s friends. Not her’s. Enough said, whether she and Ruth ever get back together or not. If she wasn’t happy with Joyce and co. even without Ruth – well, so be it, but she desperately needs new friends regardless.
We have not.
The last time we saw the two of them was when they were warning Raidah about Joyce.
And then we saw the shorter one one or two more times after that.
But nothing post timeskip, yet.
I’m pretty sure we saw Jennifer meet Asher through Raidah in the last Halloween strips? So there is him as well, but… referring to your current boyfriend as someone else’s friend is not a promising sign, if that’s what she’s doing.
It’s the SMALLEST red flag incidental to Asher and their relationship, most of which aren’t really his fault but are there nonetheless (the mafia WILL be back eventually, this WILL blow up in people’s faces, because you don’t set that gun on the wall and not fire it eventually, but it’s still up in the air how willing he’ll be in that.)
I think it’s reasonable that she’d refer to the new friend group as X’s friends, to contrast with her prior friends, but I find it very odd that she refers to them as Raidah’s rather than Asher’s.
I don’t know about that. the way Asher met up with Radiah and Carl looking for validation that Jennifer fits in with them (that one strip where Radiah and Carl are talking about pretending to like Walky) made it sound like it’s Jennifer who knows Asher through the group. Also how he’s the one letting Jennifer know when the others are waiting for them.
True. He might have a separate connection to Raidah’s group. I don’t think he’s in the core group there though.
We never saw him with them before the timeskip where Jennifer connected to them. And he wasn’t in on any of the “we’re pretending to like” conversations.
Can we please skip ahead to the part where these two just stop talking to each other? Every interaction we get between them is toxic as hell and I am well past my tolerance level for it.
I hate that Jennifer’s new friends are going to fuck her over. Yes, they’re stable, outwardly, but we also have seen what they’ve done, and it’s going to happen again, especially with Walky in their sights.
Like, I do think Ruth’s been kind of full of shit with a lot of her “but I must” shit with Jennifer, but her new friends are bad news.
Agreed. Raidah and Carl are perfectly fine friends… as long as you go along with what they say, with a bit of leeway depending on how important you are. Disagree strongly enough and I’d bet Jennifer ends up the one being labeled “toxic” or “immature”. (Especially with how we know she handles anger – she genuinely is pretty immature and can be a fairly bad friend – but Raidah’s got a deeply petty streak she doesn’t acknowledge herself.)
There’s definatly a good chance of egos clashing at some point. Jennifer likes to think of her self as the Alpha bongo but the way Radiah ignored Jennifers warning about Walky being taken and invited Walky to join them much to Jennifers obvious displeasure shows Radiah sees herself as the decision maker and does not truly value Jennifers opinions.
Definitely, at this point I’m waiting for Jennifer and Radiah to have an all out fight over one not following the other. Jennifer has tried to go against Raidah indirectly like encouraging Walky not to meet up for brunch or offering Joyce help once alone but I think there will come a point that Jennifer is going to get tired or being taken lightly.
At some point that shoe’s going to drop, Jennifer will find out they don’t actually like her and are just using her and her whole facade is going to come crumbling down.
Things with Ruth aren’t really going to be settled until that blows up.
Ruth saying she is happy is a way to keep Jenifer from coming back and starting the toxic realtionship again its a bit twisted way of showing she cares for her well being like a character in a movie throwing stones at animal saying I don’t want them anymore when they do beacuse the animal will come to some harm if they stay.
Ultimately I think Ruth cares for Jenifer but cares more about both of their well being and is not fully happy but in the long run its better for them to stay away from eachother.
Ruth said she was happy when she was with Jennifer. I think she’s said in the past she’s happy Jennifer’s doing well now.
I don’t think she’s ever told Jennifer that she’s happy now.
It’s fair to break up with someone because your history together scares you even if things are better now.
It’s not fair to do this for your partner who doesn’t want it. Even if the issue is that you are afraid of hurting your partner, which is a fair reason to dump someone, if your partner doesn’t agree then either you don’t trust them to assess risks or you are doing this for you.
Oh, definitely. No question that the relationship needed to end. And it is a good reason! It’s just not one that Jennifer was ever going to be OK with.
(How about “It is super not okay that we were acting suicidal together. Also this relationship involves tons of violence. It’s not healthy for me. I need to end it” rather than “to protect you, for your own good.”)
Well, yeah, she’s correct, but she’s not telling Ruth this out of good faith. She wants to be right and she – as implied here – wants Ruth to be in pain. She’s not actually dealing with her feelings FOR Ruth.
Plus, the out-of-nowhere mention of Raidah speaks volumes.
Neither is Ruth? Ruth is acting like a sacrificial lamb in bad faith. Just a “oh I did this for you, I want you to be happy. I’m happy I’m happy.” It’s annoying at best and insulting at worst. You broke up with me. Randomly. At a party. Didn’t talk to me about it. Didn’t make an effort to make this work. She made this have to be a “cut you outta my life” thing, not Jennifer. And now She’s The bad guy because she’s calling Ruth on her bullshit. Naw I’d say she’s right on the money and if she brings up Raidah it’s only because Raidah thus far has treated her at least marginally better than Ruth. She’s moved on, and not in the way Ruth had hoped she would.
Also not sure what you mean by “she wants to be right”. Everything she’s saying here are basically facts (well Raidah sucks but not towards her thus far). It’s not like she’s bending the truth or arguing the point.She’s venting her frustrations.
She wants to be right means that the truth isn’t motive for her argument it’s so she can win this round of emotional toxicity chess they’re playing. Jennifer is correct but that’s not the point. The goal is to hurt Ruth the way Ruth hurt her.
Hurt People hurt people, especially those who hurt them. I’m not gonna invalidate Billie’s argument just because she wants it to sting a bit. That’s…natural. Especially if her grievances are real. I just find it reductive to act like Jennifer is ONLY attacking Ruth to hurt her feelings and not in retaliation of Ruth’s behavior continuously hurting her. Yeah she wins the argument but I don’t think that is literally her only goal. She’s mad.
If Jenifer didn’t want Ruth to in pain she would have ignored Ruth or at least try to be civil Ruth tried to break up with her several times knowing their realtionship was toxic.
Ruth shouldn’t be so self righteous but every time she engages with Jenifer post break up Jenifer gets overtly aggressive. Their realtionship was no good and Ruth knew it.
Ruth really doesn’t have much high ground here but she was the one who realized their realtionship was toxic and tried to break it off multiple times and Ruth is trying to use this i am happy to keep her away beacuse she cares enough about Jenifers well being.
Jenifer probably realizes that it was and yeah it was for own good. but she is angry beacuse she wasn’t the one to do it first and Ruth went to an extreme but when you try to break up with some one several times and they refuse you need to goto extremes.
Jenifer is angry beacuse she wasn’t the one to break it off no one likes to be the one who is broken up with it sucks especially if you have an ego problem like Jenifer does. that resentment is not going away.
Jennifer didn’t start this conversation. Ruth did. Jennifer appeared to be content to say nothing until Ruth started talking, and what she said couldn’t reasonably be seen to Jennifer as anything than another lie. She didn’t try to hurt until she perceived another condescending lie.
I strongly doubt most anyone here would be defending Ruth anywhere near this strongly if we didn’t have that flashback to that conversation she had with Dorothy. It’s not like Ruth talked to Jennifer about this, and I’ve seen no indication that Dorothy went into detail what Ruth told her other than revealing she was planning to break up with her at the party. Should Jennifer have handled this the way she did? No, but her position as stated by her here is easy to believe and accept.
Especially if you ended that last conversation by violently pushing the person to the floor. I know Jennifer initiated the physical confrontation but I don’t think that means Ruth can just pick it up again when there last interaction was a pretty understood fuck off.
They’re future Harvard grads and United States presidents.
They’re masked (and unmasked) vigilantes, as well as people who attempt to turn away from personal violence despite their anger and their talent for it.
They work for congress members despite only being 18 and having no previous experience or education that would lead one to think they’d be so good at it.
They are surprisingly intelligent and unwillingly insightful goofballs who support their friends and family in the face of their greatest fear: talking about their feelings.
They are people who constantly find themselves changing, are often uncomfortable with said change, yet continue to do so.
They are people who insist on being your friend despite the disrespect and dismissiveness you often show them.
They are people who manage to be both narcissistic yet down to earth at the same time.
They are people who are willing to make the hard decisions for themselves and for others even if it makes them the bad guy.
Raidah’s friends are the children of lawyers whose biggest feats are missing their friend’s downward spiral and insulting the readers’ arguably favorite character.
I think this is just meant to hurt Ruth. Jennifer is not as detached from her friend group pretends to be and still cares about them a great deal. She just doesn’t hangout with them as much because Ruth is part of it and possibly Raidah might distract her away from them as a weird revenge dig at Joyce and Sarah. That’s not confirmed or anything, but Raidah seems very satisfied Jen is in her group now.
Anyway pretty sure Jen still cares about most of those dorks.
My comment wasn’t saying Jennifer doesn’t care.
It was trying to put into perspective what should and shouldn’t count as amazing.
For all we know, Raidah and the Rhinestones could be incredibly amazing off panel, but what we’ve seen and what Jennifer mentions is not.
Not that “level” and “stable” are bad things, but Dorothy had that in abundance, as does Lucy, and even Sal to a degree.
Seeing a lot of people saying ‘Jennifer’s right,’ and while I’d say she’s pretty spot-on at about panel 3, in panel 1 she’s being very contemptuous. Ruth sacrificed a relationship that made her happy and want to get better, because she was terrified that the girl she had vowed to die together with would, uh ..die together with her (a fairly understandable fear).
I’m not saying she was right to break things off, or if she did, went about it in the right way, or has dealt with the aftermath the right way, but there hasn’t been a hint of Ruth feeling smug self-satisfaction in what she’s done. Jennifer just believes that because it makes Ruth easier to vilify, and takes away some of the pain of the break-up by turning it into righteous anger. It’s easier to deal with Ruth breaking up with her by believing in the version of events that she just laid out (just as it’s easier to deal with having been broken up with by completely changing everything about herself, so that it wasn’t HER that got hurt, it was ‘Billie’).
Short version: Jennifer is kind of right, but she is also fucking up a lot, because that is what everyone in this comic does (except Dina).
Mm. Generally I agree with this, but the nature of being in a relationship with another person is such that making a decision for yourself also entails making a decision for the other person. There’s no getting around it, and “just never make any decisions about your relationship ever” is not a solution.
The other person is always entitled to their feelings about your decision that involved them, but they are not necessarily entitled to act on them in any way they wish.
I don’t have strong feelings about the Ruth/Jennifer mess, I just recognize that it’s a complicated situation.
It’s always complicated, but when you’re sacrificing your own happiness for what you think is good for someone else, you really shouldn’t expect them to be happy about it.
I honestly think this situation is a lot more nuanced than a lot of commentators seem to be treating it. Even more than usual, it’s not a case where one is villain and one is victim.
Why, whatever do you mean? It’s perfectly normal behavior to shout at people about which of their feelings are real or fake. Look at Malaya, after all.
You know, it is possible that Ruth pushed Jennifer away, and wants her back, and is happy that she seems happy without her, and is pissed off that Jennifer doesn’t need her as much as she feels like she needs… some part of whatever it was they had together. It turns out people are really complicated.
Jennifer doesn’t have to see Ruth as a villain, but she chooses to because it is convenient for maintaining her current worldview. That’s what irritates me. These are two problematic people who have done fucked up shit to others and to one another, but Jennifer is convinced she’s solved all her problems. And she’s also convinced herself that Ruth’s involvement in her life was one of the biggest problems she had to solve. It really really sucks when that’s all someone sees you as.
Not to be a scorekeeper or anything, but has Ruth sought out Billie once this entire time? I genuinely don’t remember and I don’t feel like reading 2 years’ worth of comics to jog that memory, but it sure feels like she’s just been quietly simmering in her own decision, while Billie keeps doing weird shit like knocking on Ruth’s door and body slamming her into walls for no apparent reason.
I mean, she followed her after class once to ask for forgiveness. And Jennifer, a toxic mess, used it as a chance to try to fix her own problems by hooking Ruth up with Daisy and seemed on the verge of forgiving her. Then got Big Mad that Ruth didn’t do that.
A lot of this shouting feels like Jennifer is the one with a problem. I mean, it is most certainly NOT abandonment to be locked out of a room because you otherwise will break in and refuse to leave…
There really wasn’t ever gonna be a “clean” breakup between these two. Whichever one broke up with the other, the break-ee was always gonna be resentful about it, I think, and anyone expecting otherwise was being silly.
I think that with their unhealthy dynamics… there was no way to break up amicably. Because Jennifer was always going to fight to stay if Ruth did literally anything else. And Jennifer was never gonna admit they were bad for each other and leave because of it.
Yes, if they had even a semblance of healthy communication, then I would have recommended literally any other way. But they didn’t. And they had unhealthy dynamics where break-ups weren’t to be taken seriously.
The only worse ways to break-up I can think of right now would be like, making out with someone else in front of the person or attempted murder. Attempted murder is a pretty bad way to break-up with someone.
I’ll be honest, I have no idea what Billie’s on about. She’s yammering all this shit about things being “real” and “lies” and bringing up Raidah for no apparent reason, and I’m just not following her at all. Far as I can decipher, this is just more of her “I’m a Big Girl now and nobody can handle that!” nonsense, and I just don’t know who ever asked in the first place.
Jennifer realized, like Joyce, that she hated her old self and is trying to rebuild herself as a happy non-alcoholic “normal” person (that may be in denial about her bisexuality–not clear about that).
Unfortunately, she is still FURIOUS over Ruth dumping her.
Isn’t hanging out with Raidah one of the most pointedly new things about her though? She’s probably bringing her up because she’s comparing her new relationships to her old relationships.
“Stable” and “decent” (in the sense of how one treats others) are not mutually inclusive. This general idea has popped up in several comments and I don’t know why.
Ruth is looking at Jennifer with such a perplexed face. Not sad, just perplexed. To me she’s wondering how she menaged to be with that person for months. Jennifer beats her just the day before and now she’s screaming at her some nonsense full of resentment saying that without her she’s better, but hating her because she left her. it’s better for Ruth not to approach her any more than and to avoid talking to her.
I am going to note my thoughts straightforwardly here: Jennifer just feels like she is projecting and lashing out at Ruth over her own regrets and because even though it was unhealthy, she is so used to unhealthy that she misses it still. She misses the dramatic table flipping and the drama of it all and regrets walking away on the high of making new connections, but now that she has, she has to convince herself she’s happy at any cost.
Yeah I’m inclined to read it that way too. Ruth might not be perfect, but she does seem to be doing a credible job of putting her life together, and I do believe she’s happy for Jennifer even if she’s also hurt or dealing with some nostalgia. This seems to more more like Jennifer overcompensating than it does Ruth being secretly terribly miserable all the time.
I feel like the comments are all anti-Billie so let me just say this. Ruth took away Jennifer’s say in their breakup. She muttered a breakup under her breath and then barricaded herself in her room where Jennifer couldn’t reach her. It was an incredibly one-sided and stifling breakup. And then she has the gall. The nerve to walk around asking “if she’s doing better.” And saying “I’m glad you’re ok”. YOU DONT GET TO SAY THAT. You don’t get to walk around like you sacrificed your relationship FOR me. You sacrificed our relationship for YOU. You sacrificed every argument, every time she thought you were gonna die, every kiss, every fuck, all the good times and bad and didn’t even let her be a party to it. It was selfish, plain and simple. She didn’t want to have an argument with Billie over their breakup so she decided to cut Billie completely out of the picture. And now she’s trying to act like she didn’t HER a favor. Fuck off with that self righteous shit. You’re not a sacrificial lamb, you’re not mother Theresa, you’re not Jesus Christ. You were just scared and now you’re trying to justify it by acting like it was what’s best for everyone. And acting all surprised that Jennifer’s got feelings about it.
I think it comes off a bit different if you broke up with them to save them when they didn’t ask for that. Rather than real concern it can come off as asking for confirmation that you were right – that they would be better off without you.
boy jenni just looooooooves to assume she’s got everyone figured out. have she and booster hung out yet ? i think it could be enlightening for her. lol
either in that she’ll actually learn something about what people are actually thinking, or she’ll pick up on the fact that no one likes it when you assume what theyre thinking
People commenting about the “Raidah’s friends” thing – I’ll just say that it took almost a decade of hanging out with people I met through my spouse to call them “my friends” and not “my spouses friends”, even the ones I hung out with more than my spouse does. so it’s hard for some people. It’s only been like 3 months for Jennifer
That makes sense, and it’s fair, but given WE know that Raidah and Carl don’t actually like her, I think it feels telling that she calls them Raidah’s friends. Maybe I’m reading too much into it but I think Jennifer knows more than maybe she’d like to admit.
Everything Jennifer is bragging about (stable friends who are supportive and not violent) is exactly what Ruth wanted for her. It doesn’t make Ruth happy, per say. And neither of them are fully aware of the negative elements of Raidah and her friends. But it’s possibly solidifying Ruth’s choices in her own head.
Jennifer doesn’t have to be wrong about Ruth secretly wanting her to come break the door down and make them get back together or being sad and heartbroken about the breakup for the above to be true.
Therapy is just a thing that lets people talk about their psychosocial world view in an assumedly safe environment. As an undiagnosed neurodivergent it would probably be nice for her to discuss her thoughts and feelings with a therapist or something. IMO at least.
Jennifer, someone can be sad you broke up and simultaneously be at least a little happy for you, and also not be ‘pissed off’ that your/Raidah’s friends aren’t doing those things (because if she was pissed off about that, that would be incredibly awful)
Why is Jennifer being such an ass about this? It wasn’t that long ago that she was actually trying to hook Ruth up with with Daisy. Now she’s just trying to make Ruth feel crappy? I really don’t get it.
lmao but Raidah’s friends aren’t stable and they’re gonna betray Jennifer and Billie. Her bf killed got her friend killed and she doesn’t know and Raidah only wants to be friends with her to get back at that group. She’s living a huge lie and doesn’t know and it’s gonna blow her the bits.
Loading ...
like Raidah’s friend Dana?
…
ok, drama-wise, that is prob a step down sure
/*JUST* finished reading an autobio about being a child of an alcoholic and finding the lack of COMPLETE dysfunction in the lives of nonalcoholic families, frankly, *a miracle* when it happens in their own family
Yep. And here’s Ms Billingsworth, utterly unable to process that getting away from Ruth’s imbalance is exactly what Ruth wanted for her. Because Ruth can’t find love for herself.
I think it’s pretty obvious from Ruth’s behavior that even though that was her motivation for the breakup, she’s not really okay with it now.
You can be hurt by something and still think it’s for the best, though.
Ruth may have been a tad too successful in her efforts.
You know who Asher’s grandpa is, right?
Yeah, she mentioned knowing who Asher’s family is when Sal ran into them. She doesn’t care.
Doesn’t care, or is kidding herself it’s not important. In any case it may come back to bite her.
Or he’s mentioned/Jennifer’s known “powerful” but he’s been cagey with precisely HOW he is powerful to potentially dangerous extents, which I suspect is the case with Raidah and co. (Given the emphasis we’ve seen Raidah put on her friends’ families being influential and the specific WAYS being things like big-name lawyers and such, I don’t think “My grandpa is a mob boss but I’m on the outs with him” is one she’d really take to. Even if she’s okay with “mob boss”, “leaving the mob” is a lack of influence and in fact a possibly dangerous one. That’s reputation poison.)
I could see Jennifer, investigative reporter extraordinaire, knowing Asher’s grandfather is a big investor in local businesses, super influential in the community, and Asher admits to her that his Gramps is bad news or something and he’s trying to get away from that all, Gramps didn’t want that, and her conclusion is NOT “He’s a mob boss, and by the way Asher stole a ton of money from him which will be very very dangerous if he ever finds out.”
Now, most likely, since she made the connection from “sleeping with one eye open” to “Asher’s GRANDFATHER, specifically, and not Asher himself,” Jennifer knows, but I’m not ruling out the possibility she thinks he’s like, economically/politically dangerous and not murderously dangerous, and Asher either assumes he told her enough and she seemed to get it enough that she made the connection or has let her remain ignorant of the true extent of it. If only because that would bring back the “Sal is Amazi-Girl” reasoning we know and love, but this time under very dramatic circumstances, AND leave us the audience screaming in agony once it becomes clear because SAL assumes she knows, ASHER maybe assumes she knows, WALKY AND AMBER AND AG would know from Sal that she knows, and JENNIFER doesn’t actually know until that gun finally fires. It would leave us damning Willis’s name to high heaven, and it would therefore be great.
Rhetorical question, should have linked the relevant comic to make that clear.
Asher’s family are major bad news and with him, sure, he’s probably not going to flip a table, but Uncle might come around with a cadaver and a hacksaw asking for a favour.
True, but you are not your family. I’m pretty sure we learned this with Joyce and Becky. And sure, Asher seems to be involved in some minute way but not really in a way that anyone in the comic could call him on. For all they know he hates his parents and their activities as much as Amber hates her father.
Amber and Becky’s fathers would also have been significant sources of worry and instability. Asher could be the best intentioned, sweetest boyfriend ever and he’d still be a source of well founded stress and concern because his family are dangerous mobsters and he is not out of it as much as he wants to be.
Doesn’t mean you should stop dating someone because of their family. Like Sal’s not her mom, Joyce isn’t her mom, and Mary isn’t her parents, who are apparently very nice people.
I’m not making a moral judgement, I’m stating a fact.
Asher is trapped in a web with some extremely dangerous people, and dating him means getting tangled up with all of that. I’m not making a moral judgement there either, but it is decidedly not stable and worry-free.
Asher will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life, and so long as you’re in his orbit you probably should be too.
So what’s your point? Cuz it sounds like you’re saying Jennifer should NOT date him because of his family? As if that is comparable to your actual partner being abusive. There is literally no other way to take this. Asher should not be allowed to find love or happiness because he was born to the wrong family, by your logic. What’s the point of living at that point?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand, Thag is only referencing what Jeniffer herself said? Like, she’s saying her new friends are more care-free and safe (compared to Ruth) and that is very arguable, particularly so Asher with his general situation. Leave him or keep him, she’s saying this either to spite Ruth, or because she doesn’t know, otherwise, this statement would make no sense. She can be with whoever she wants, but her stated reasons (here) to be with them don’t quite work.
I would also call Dina choosing to date Becky an unstable situation because of Becky’s precarious position and dangerous family member, even though Becky herself did nothing wrong. That doesn’t mean it was a mistake, it just means it was a risk
The risk isn’t being acknowledged by what Jennifer says here. And I’m not even going to judge. It’s hard to say how much Jennifer knows (although I’m going to guess less than she should) and what she does know she has no obligation to share with Ruth, especially when it’d undercut her argument.
What I’m saying is there is a market difference between “My SO is gonna put me through a table” and “My SO’s crazy family will put me through a table. It’s the dynamic behind that which is tthe problem. If Becky’s dad hit Dina that’d be bad. If Becky started hitting Dina that’d be unacceptable.The risk isn’t devoid of the context that you’re kinda removing from it.
You’re arguing against a point I wasn’t making. Literally all I’m saying is that what Jennifer says she’s getting with her new relationship and what she’s actually getting don’t match up.
And my point is that Jennifer has no reason to feel at risk of that happening. At least at the moment Asher not raidah has made a threat or action making her think they’ll lock themselves in a room or flip a table at her. And we’re only on edge about that happening as outside observers who know that could pose a problem. “What she’s getting” is conjecture at this point. We can assume it’ll come to a head at some point but for now Asher has proven himself to be a chill dude, which is more than what we can say for Ruth and Jennifer’s relationship even at its inception. And I feel like Jennifer’s statement here is much more pointedly describing being bullied and worried about her SO self harming or getting aggressive than she is of some third party attacking them.
Granted he could be hurt or killed by the mob and that could have some psychological trauma for Jennifer but I feel like that’s not the same as the actions she’s comparing them to in reference to Ruth. This isn’t a just “I’ll never have to worry about getting hurt again”. It is very pointedly “I don’t have to worry about you hurting me or yourself anymore.”
Asher stole a bunch of money from the mob and then had a hit ordered on a murderer who tried to blackmail him. He’s a chill dude and I do think he’s sincere, but there is mortal danger here for him and for Jennifer.
Stealing money from the literal mob is a good deed. What happened with Blaine was on the exact same moral level as removing a stain from a carpet. Any reprisal he gets for either of those things is automatically disproportionate.
Mobsters inflicting disproportionate retaliation on people is of course utterly unimaginable.
Thag, I think part of what’s tripping people up is that what you’re saying Jennifer is saying isn’t what she said. Jennifer didn’t say anything about people’s families being level, stable, not likely to do violent stuff, etc. Her point isn’t about danger but about how emotionally difficult it is to care about someone who is emotionally unstable, sporadically violent, and self-destructive. You’re making this about people’s families and danger when what she’s complaining about with Ruth was Ruth herself having issues.
Sal knows one VERY important fact in which he is very actively NOT involved with the family business, but which is still very very dangerous: He stole money from Gramps to pay his college tuition. A LOT of money. Enough money that a mob stooge could figure it out and blackmail him, and enough money therefore that if Gramps somehow does find out, he’s screwed. Which also leaves him susceptible to blackmailing again.
The fact that Asher is not so far out of the mob that he’s willing to fall back on them to at least some extent to deal with the blackmail is something none of the cast know except Asher (and maybe Lester the dirty cop, or maybe someone else), but that is also very dangerous indeed.
Basically I tend to think that if you’re trying to escape from your mobster family by robbing them, you should get as far out of their sphere of influence as you possibly can, worry about everything else AFTER you’re far far away, and Asher’s still in a city where there are cops on Gramps’s take. Which is not NEARLY far enough. Even if he genuinely thinks he’s out for now, and that’s a VERY open question, he’s not, because he’s still in range for people to recognize and blackmail him and potentially fake his suicide if that’s deemed necessary. If he’s serious about getting out he needs to keep running.
Great as usual to see you here Regs, very good points as usual!
You know, I never assumed that Asher called the hit due to the blackmail material, I thought it was “This man forced me to turn on people I like, and may try to do it again”.
Asher has literally had a corrupt officer murder a dude.
The dude sucked, but Asher ordered the hit, because he got told *when it was done*
Sure, he potentially “ordered a hit” and “got a text message” when the target “died”, but he’s hot so he can do what he wants.
Jennifer is clearly what he wants 😀
(Sorry, I couldn’t resist making the joke.)
And the only bad thing about it was the hit wasn’t ordered SOONER.
For real. The hit was on BLAINE. That’s practically a good deed.
Literally the only casualties of that whole ordeal were guys nobody liked in the first place. Next we’ll be condemning Batman when he finally kills the Gomer.
…JOKER.
Gomer?????
????? Either I’m way too fucking high tonight or this autocorrect is possessed by the spirit of Andy Griffith spinoffs.
Take the cadaver and hacksaw to Ruth, problem solved.
I always wonder if she and Asher already knew each other in the past. They did grow up in the same town, would her parents have cared (or prodded deeply enough to know) that another wealthy family in town was Mob Rich instead of legit, or would the two of have been chucked together with any other kids in the same age range at various society functions over the years?
I wonder if Raidah knows who Asher’s grandpa is
Have you met Ruth’s grandfather. Because he’s waaaaay more involved in fucking things up than Asher’s.
Way more involved in messing up their respective personal lives, maybe. Not actually ordering murders though.
And, since Asher’s stolen money from him, if he ever finds out it’s only family sympathy that’ll keep him from getting killed.
Well, Ruth’s grandfather was in the war – sliding timescale says take your pick on which, but unless it was EXCLUSIVELY WW2, if he didn’t order murders he certainly went around commiting them, with a high possibility of war crimes.
Ruth’s grandpa probably hasn’t killed anyone since he left the military. He’s major bad news but he doesn’t seem to be in the same league as ‘head of local crime syndicate’ in terms of concerning relatives.
I mean, the moat was only a few feet deep and didn’t even have alligators, were you even trying, Ruth?
Ruth: Yes, I’m genuinely happy that you’re happy WHILE HATING IT.
↑THIS↑🙄
Complicated emotions are lies, I guess?
Look, the friends may not be what I want, but Jennifer’s making some real valid points.
The truth hurts.
If you really want to hurt someone, go for the truth every time.
so if they’re still doing this but apparently not actively trying to die about it do we downgrade them to drama tropical storms or how does it work
Eh, Cat V to like, II or III
ROFL
Not being chaotic does not necessarily mean not being evil.
Oh Jennifer, do you not pay attention to human meme things?
Sure, Jennifer. Keep telling yourself all of that.
Try to convince yourself you finally have everything just how you want… until you inevitably fuck it up and have to walk away from the wreckage. Again.
Oh hi Jennifer’s inner voice, where’ve you been
Given that her new “level and stable” friends are only pretending to like her, I don’t think she’ll have to do anything but wait.
This one came fucked up.
As someone on Patreon pointed out – she calls them Raidah’s friends. Not her’s. Enough said, whether she and Ruth ever get back together or not. If she wasn’t happy with Joyce and co. even without Ruth – well, so be it, but she desperately needs new friends regardless.
Also, have we seen Chan and Char post-timeskip? Cause it kinda seems like Raidah’s friends are Carl.
Char discovered the hard way what happens when you call a hungry velociraptor ableist slurs to her face.
We have not.
The last time we saw the two of them was when they were warning Raidah about Joyce.
And then we saw the shorter one one or two more times after that.
But nothing post timeskip, yet.
We saw one of them in the Halloween flashbacks but that isn’t post-timeskip, and they’ve been notably absent from Raidah’s recent appearances
I’m pretty sure we saw Jennifer meet Asher through Raidah in the last Halloween strips? So there is him as well, but… referring to your current boyfriend as someone else’s friend is not a promising sign, if that’s what she’s doing.
It’s the SMALLEST red flag incidental to Asher and their relationship, most of which aren’t really his fault but are there nonetheless (the mafia WILL be back eventually, this WILL blow up in people’s faces, because you don’t set that gun on the wall and not fire it eventually, but it’s still up in the air how willing he’ll be in that.)
Or it’s a sign that she realizes they don’t really view Asher as a friend, either.
Asher wasn’t in the flashback meeting and Jennifer knew him from their hometown, I think he’s also a relative newcomer
Ah, no, he’s tagged there but only in the final panel, you’re right.
Does Jennifer know he’s the guy who ratted on Sal to put her in whatever that school/institution was she grew up,in?
Is Carl still Dana’s boyfriend?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/carl/
(Jeez, that arc really doesn’t reflect well on Sarah at all…)
No, she ditched Carl during her downward spiral before Sarah called her dad.
You are correct.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/choice/
I think it’s reasonable that she’d refer to the new friend group as X’s friends, to contrast with her prior friends, but I find it very odd that she refers to them as Raidah’s rather than Asher’s.
I think Asher’s separate from that group. They know him through Jennifer, not the other way around.
I don’t know about that. the way Asher met up with Radiah and Carl looking for validation that Jennifer fits in with them (that one strip where Radiah and Carl are talking about pretending to like Walky) made it sound like it’s Jennifer who knows Asher through the group. Also how he’s the one letting Jennifer know when the others are waiting for them.
True. He might have a separate connection to Raidah’s group. I don’t think he’s in the core group there though.
We never saw him with them before the timeskip where Jennifer connected to them. And he wasn’t in on any of the “we’re pretending to like” conversations.
She recognizes Raidah thinks of herself as the alpha of that group. She allowed Asher and Jennifer in. Jennifer knows how unspoken hierarchies work.
It can be but given we know that Raidah and Carl see her with contempt, it feels telling to me.
…Aw, damn, Ruth.
Calling them Raidahs friends instead of her friends, interesting
Maybe she subconsciously knows they don’t actually give a shit about her
She’s probably judging them by that high-school cliche mindset where it’s not important how much they like her as long as she’s part of the group.
YUP. Ding, ding, ding. Jennifer/Billie judges people by how much social clout they have.
Can we please skip ahead to the part where these two just stop talking to each other? Every interaction we get between them is toxic as hell and I am well past my tolerance level for it.
You too, huh. Yeah, what you said.
Agreed. I don’t know that there’s any more ground to be broken between these two. They’re so awful for each other. Let’s leave it at that and move on.
Maybe she has enough sense or decorum to drop people who casually sling ableist slurs around.
Yeah, I’m kinda tired of this whole dynamic.
Jennifer may be right about a few things, but I’m not sure I’d call Char or Chan “amazing”. Carl… eh, I dunno. Dude’s kinda forgettable.
Is Raidah even still friends with those two. They haven’t shown up since Halloween
Okay this is an excellent “Getting the last word” Jennifer.
Now walk away and let it be the last word.
[Ron Howard’s voice]
It wasn’t.
This is interesting. They’re both kind of doing the same thing right now, huh?
Hurting?
I hate that Jennifer’s new friends are going to fuck her over. Yes, they’re stable, outwardly, but we also have seen what they’ve done, and it’s going to happen again, especially with Walky in their sights.
Like, I do think Ruth’s been kind of full of shit with a lot of her “but I must” shit with Jennifer, but her new friends are bad news.
Agreed. Raidah and Carl are perfectly fine friends… as long as you go along with what they say, with a bit of leeway depending on how important you are. Disagree strongly enough and I’d bet Jennifer ends up the one being labeled “toxic” or “immature”. (Especially with how we know she handles anger – she genuinely is pretty immature and can be a fairly bad friend – but Raidah’s got a deeply petty streak she doesn’t acknowledge herself.)
There’s definatly a good chance of egos clashing at some point. Jennifer likes to think of her self as the Alpha bongo but the way Radiah ignored Jennifers warning about Walky being taken and invited Walky to join them much to Jennifers obvious displeasure shows Radiah sees herself as the decision maker and does not truly value Jennifers opinions.
Not even that good. We’re already well past that point.
They’re actively hiding their disdain for her and talking about it among themselves.
Definitely, at this point I’m waiting for Jennifer and Radiah to have an all out fight over one not following the other. Jennifer has tried to go against Raidah indirectly like encouraging Walky not to meet up for brunch or offering Joyce help once alone but I think there will come a point that Jennifer is going to get tired or being taken lightly.
At some point that shoe’s going to drop, Jennifer will find out they don’t actually like her and are just using her and her whole facade is going to come crumbling down.
Things with Ruth aren’t really going to be settled until that blows up.
Ruth saying she is happy is a way to keep Jenifer from coming back and starting the toxic realtionship again its a bit twisted way of showing she cares for her well being like a character in a movie throwing stones at animal saying I don’t want them anymore when they do beacuse the animal will come to some harm if they stay.
Ultimately I think Ruth cares for Jenifer but cares more about both of their well being and is not fully happy but in the long run its better for them to stay away from eachother.
Ruth said she was happy when she was with Jennifer. I think she’s said in the past she’s happy Jennifer’s doing well now.
I don’t think she’s ever told Jennifer that she’s happy now.
You don’t have to be happy with the situation to be happy the person you care about is happy despite the situation.
She never came back… until the next Gender Studies class
These two need a Leslie, and not Becky and Dina for the time being.
When somebody doesn’t want to end the relationship with you, and you end the relationship “for their own good”, 100% of the time, they are not fans.
Own your feelings and your choices!
(I mean, it’s not like Jennifer was going to like any reason for a breakup. It’s just, this reason was particularly doomed. Oh well.)
They wanted to commit suicide together.. I think breaking up because of that is pretty valid. Ruth is scared of that happening again, and it IS scary.
It’s fair to break up with someone because your history together scares you even if things are better now.
It’s not fair to do this for your partner who doesn’t want it. Even if the issue is that you are afraid of hurting your partner, which is a fair reason to dump someone, if your partner doesn’t agree then either you don’t trust them to assess risks or you are doing this for you.
Oh, definitely. No question that the relationship needed to end. And it is a good reason! It’s just not one that Jennifer was ever going to be OK with.
(How about “It is super not okay that we were acting suicidal together. Also this relationship involves tons of violence. It’s not healthy for me. I need to end it” rather than “to protect you, for your own good.”)
She’s correct.
Well, yeah, she’s correct, but she’s not telling Ruth this out of good faith. She wants to be right and she – as implied here – wants Ruth to be in pain. She’s not actually dealing with her feelings FOR Ruth.
Plus, the out-of-nowhere mention of Raidah speaks volumes.
Neither is Ruth? Ruth is acting like a sacrificial lamb in bad faith. Just a “oh I did this for you, I want you to be happy. I’m happy I’m happy.” It’s annoying at best and insulting at worst. You broke up with me. Randomly. At a party. Didn’t talk to me about it. Didn’t make an effort to make this work. She made this have to be a “cut you outta my life” thing, not Jennifer. And now She’s The bad guy because she’s calling Ruth on her bullshit. Naw I’d say she’s right on the money and if she brings up Raidah it’s only because Raidah thus far has treated her at least marginally better than Ruth. She’s moved on, and not in the way Ruth had hoped she would.
Also not sure what you mean by “she wants to be right”. Everything she’s saying here are basically facts (well Raidah sucks but not towards her thus far). It’s not like she’s bending the truth or arguing the point.She’s venting her frustrations.
She wants to be right means that the truth isn’t motive for her argument it’s so she can win this round of emotional toxicity chess they’re playing. Jennifer is correct but that’s not the point. The goal is to hurt Ruth the way Ruth hurt her.
Hurt People hurt people, especially those who hurt them. I’m not gonna invalidate Billie’s argument just because she wants it to sting a bit. That’s…natural. Especially if her grievances are real. I just find it reductive to act like Jennifer is ONLY attacking Ruth to hurt her feelings and not in retaliation of Ruth’s behavior continuously hurting her. Yeah she wins the argument but I don’t think that is literally her only goal. She’s mad.
If Jenifer didn’t want Ruth to in pain she would have ignored Ruth or at least try to be civil Ruth tried to break up with her several times knowing their realtionship was toxic.
Ruth shouldn’t be so self righteous but every time she engages with Jenifer post break up Jenifer gets overtly aggressive. Their realtionship was no good and Ruth knew it.
Ruth really doesn’t have much high ground here but she was the one who realized their realtionship was toxic and tried to break it off multiple times and Ruth is trying to use this i am happy to keep her away beacuse she cares enough about Jenifers well being.
Jenifer probably realizes that it was and yeah it was for own good. but she is angry beacuse she wasn’t the one to do it first and Ruth went to an extreme but when you try to break up with some one several times and they refuse you need to goto extremes.
Jenifer is angry beacuse she wasn’t the one to break it off no one likes to be the one who is broken up with it sucks especially if you have an ego problem like Jenifer does. that resentment is not going away.
Jennifer didn’t start this conversation. Ruth did. Jennifer appeared to be content to say nothing until Ruth started talking, and what she said couldn’t reasonably be seen to Jennifer as anything than another lie. She didn’t try to hurt until she perceived another condescending lie.
I strongly doubt most anyone here would be defending Ruth anywhere near this strongly if we didn’t have that flashback to that conversation she had with Dorothy. It’s not like Ruth talked to Jennifer about this, and I’ve seen no indication that Dorothy went into detail what Ruth told her other than revealing she was planning to break up with her at the party. Should Jennifer have handled this the way she did? No, but her position as stated by her here is easy to believe and accept.
Ruth was continuing their last conversation, in which Jennifer accused her of lying: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/dislodged/
Continuing a conversation from a day/hours ago is basically starting a new conversation. Just a new conversation with the same topic.
Especially if you ended that last conversation by violently pushing the person to the floor. I know Jennifer initiated the physical confrontation but I don’t think that means Ruth can just pick it up again when there last interaction was a pretty understood fuck off.
I appreciate the points you’ve made.
She’s definitely not wrong.
Hmmm. Harsh but fair. Except the part about Raidah and her friends. They suck, except Asher who is cool but can’t be trusted.
Cool, but can’t be trusted perfectly sums up Asher.
If only he were cool, but rude instead.
^ This.
I atleast trust him more than Raidah
Level and stable? No. Manipulative? Yes. Good at pulling a social fake: damn skippy
No, Jennifer.
YOUR friends are amazing.
They’re future Harvard grads and United States presidents.
They’re masked (and unmasked) vigilantes, as well as people who attempt to turn away from personal violence despite their anger and their talent for it.
They work for congress members despite only being 18 and having no previous experience or education that would lead one to think they’d be so good at it.
They are surprisingly intelligent and unwillingly insightful goofballs who support their friends and family in the face of their greatest fear: talking about their feelings.
They are people who constantly find themselves changing, are often uncomfortable with said change, yet continue to do so.
They are people who insist on being your friend despite the disrespect and dismissiveness you often show them.
They are people who manage to be both narcissistic yet down to earth at the same time.
They are people who are willing to make the hard decisions for themselves and for others even if it makes them the bad guy.
Raidah’s friends are the children of lawyers whose biggest feats are missing their friend’s downward spiral and insulting the readers’ arguably favorite character.
I think this is just meant to hurt Ruth. Jennifer is not as detached from her friend group pretends to be and still cares about them a great deal. She just doesn’t hangout with them as much because Ruth is part of it and possibly Raidah might distract her away from them as a weird revenge dig at Joyce and Sarah. That’s not confirmed or anything, but Raidah seems very satisfied Jen is in her group now.
Anyway pretty sure Jen still cares about most of those dorks.
My comment wasn’t saying Jennifer doesn’t care.
It was trying to put into perspective what should and shouldn’t count as amazing.
For all we know, Raidah and the Rhinestones could be incredibly amazing off panel, but what we’ve seen and what Jennifer mentions is not.
Not that “level” and “stable” are bad things, but Dorothy had that in abundance, as does Lucy, and even Sal to a degree.
Ruth….”Who the hell is Raidah?”
Seeing a lot of people saying ‘Jennifer’s right,’ and while I’d say she’s pretty spot-on at about panel 3, in panel 1 she’s being very contemptuous. Ruth sacrificed a relationship that made her happy and want to get better, because she was terrified that the girl she had vowed to die together with would, uh ..die together with her (a fairly understandable fear).
I’m not saying she was right to break things off, or if she did, went about it in the right way, or has dealt with the aftermath the right way, but there hasn’t been a hint of Ruth feeling smug self-satisfaction in what she’s done. Jennifer just believes that because it makes Ruth easier to vilify, and takes away some of the pain of the break-up by turning it into righteous anger. It’s easier to deal with Ruth breaking up with her by believing in the version of events that she just laid out (just as it’s easier to deal with having been broken up with by completely changing everything about herself, so that it wasn’t HER that got hurt, it was ‘Billie’).
Short version: Jennifer is kind of right, but she is also fucking up a lot, because that is what everyone in this comic does (except Dina).
When you start making decisions for adults for their own good, don’t be surprised if they treat you as treating them in contempt.
Mm. Generally I agree with this, but the nature of being in a relationship with another person is such that making a decision for yourself also entails making a decision for the other person. There’s no getting around it, and “just never make any decisions about your relationship ever” is not a solution.
The other person is always entitled to their feelings about your decision that involved them, but they are not necessarily entitled to act on them in any way they wish.
I don’t have strong feelings about the Ruth/Jennifer mess, I just recognize that it’s a complicated situation.
It’s always complicated, but when you’re sacrificing your own happiness for what you think is good for someone else, you really shouldn’t expect them to be happy about it.
I honestly think this situation is a lot more nuanced than a lot of commentators seem to be treating it. Even more than usual, it’s not a case where one is villain and one is victim.
Don’t think we’re in disagreement, here.
Projecting a bit much there, JENNIFER?
More than an entire multiplex.
Why, whatever do you mean? It’s perfectly normal behavior to shout at people about which of their feelings are real or fake. Look at Malaya, after all.
If she projected any harder you could point her at a wall and watch Star Wars.
You know, it is possible that Ruth pushed Jennifer away, and wants her back, and is happy that she seems happy without her, and is pissed off that Jennifer doesn’t need her as much as she feels like she needs… some part of whatever it was they had together. It turns out people are really complicated.
Jennifer doesn’t have to see Ruth as a villain, but she chooses to because it is convenient for maintaining her current worldview. That’s what irritates me. These are two problematic people who have done fucked up shit to others and to one another, but Jennifer is convinced she’s solved all her problems. And she’s also convinced herself that Ruth’s involvement in her life was one of the biggest problems she had to solve. It really really sucks when that’s all someone sees you as.
Exactly. That someone is happy, and the reason for that happiness, are two different things, and I can be pleased by one and displeased by the other.
For someone who “never came back,” Jennifer sure is seeking out and shouting at Ruth a lot.
Oh yeah.
Not to be a scorekeeper or anything, but has Ruth sought out Billie once this entire time? I genuinely don’t remember and I don’t feel like reading 2 years’ worth of comics to jog that memory, but it sure feels like she’s just been quietly simmering in her own decision, while Billie keeps doing weird shit like knocking on Ruth’s door and body slamming her into walls for no apparent reason.
I mean, she followed her after class once to ask for forgiveness. And Jennifer, a toxic mess, used it as a chance to try to fix her own problems by hooking Ruth up with Daisy and seemed on the verge of forgiving her. Then got Big Mad that Ruth didn’t do that.
A lot of this shouting feels like Jennifer is the one with a problem. I mean, it is most certainly NOT abandonment to be locked out of a room because you otherwise will break in and refuse to leave…
There really wasn’t ever gonna be a “clean” breakup between these two. Whichever one broke up with the other, the break-ee was always gonna be resentful about it, I think, and anyone expecting otherwise was being silly.
I think that with their unhealthy dynamics… there was no way to break up amicably. Because Jennifer was always going to fight to stay if Ruth did literally anything else. And Jennifer was never gonna admit they were bad for each other and leave because of it.
That said, the way it was done was pretty close to the worst possible way of doing it.
Yes, if they had even a semblance of healthy communication, then I would have recommended literally any other way. But they didn’t. And they had unhealthy dynamics where break-ups weren’t to be taken seriously.
The only worse ways to break-up I can think of right now would be like, making out with someone else in front of the person or attempted murder. Attempted murder is a pretty bad way to break-up with someone.
Sorry Jennifer, but Raidah and her friends are actually pretty terrible people.
She doesn’t realize they’re putting on an act and using her in a mean girl revenge plot against Joyce.
Jennifer, I don’t know what’s going on in Ruth’s headspace here, but I know that you seriously need to go to therapy.
Ruth is going to give her a hug around the waist in the next strip.
Jennifer is going to react in an annoyed fashion and will not even notice what is happening to her until she has already been suplexed.
The world doesn’t revolve around you, Billie.
I’ll be honest, I have no idea what Billie’s on about. She’s yammering all this shit about things being “real” and “lies” and bringing up Raidah for no apparent reason, and I’m just not following her at all. Far as I can decipher, this is just more of her “I’m a Big Girl now and nobody can handle that!” nonsense, and I just don’t know who ever asked in the first place.
Jennifer realized, like Joyce, that she hated her old self and is trying to rebuild herself as a happy non-alcoholic “normal” person (that may be in denial about her bisexuality–not clear about that).
Unfortunately, she is still FURIOUS over Ruth dumping her.
Is that what she’s rambling about? I’m glad somebody understands, at least.
Ruth never mentioned Raidah once and yet Billie feels the need to bring them up? Someone’s a little defensive, hm?
She really wants Ruth to buy that she is happier now but at the same time make Ruth feel bad about her being happier without her.
They were absolutely made for each other, which is such a huge mutual problem.
Isn’t hanging out with Raidah one of the most pointedly new things about her though? She’s probably bringing her up because she’s comparing her new relationships to her old relationships.
oh yeah, Raidah’s friends are amazing yes-men
And then there’s that “lose-five-pounds” chick.
Yeah, real stable…
“Stable” and “decent” (in the sense of how one treats others) are not mutually inclusive. This general idea has popped up in several comments and I don’t know why.
I thought Jennifer replaced her?
Doesn’t exactly make them good people, even if she’s still making a good point
Ruth is looking at Jennifer with such a perplexed face. Not sad, just perplexed. To me she’s wondering how she menaged to be with that person for months. Jennifer beats her just the day before and now she’s screaming at her some nonsense full of resentment saying that without her she’s better, but hating her because she left her. it’s better for Ruth not to approach her any more than and to avoid talking to her.
I can pretty much guarantee that’s not what Ruth’s thinking.
To quote yesterday “You lied about never letting me push you away again.”
I think Ruth is feeling the truth of Jennifer’s words.
You notice how she said “Raidah’s friends” and not “my friends”
“No way people contain multitudes and you can feel two things at once.”
Also wow, thejeff called it yesterday!
Nah, Jennifer, you didn’t see the entire freaking DESK she pushed in front of the door. If you got through that, there would be other problems.
I am going to note my thoughts straightforwardly here: Jennifer just feels like she is projecting and lashing out at Ruth over her own regrets and because even though it was unhealthy, she is so used to unhealthy that she misses it still. She misses the dramatic table flipping and the drama of it all and regrets walking away on the high of making new connections, but now that she has, she has to convince herself she’s happy at any cost.
Yeah I’m inclined to read it that way too. Ruth might not be perfect, but she does seem to be doing a credible job of putting her life together, and I do believe she’s happy for Jennifer even if she’s also hurt or dealing with some nostalgia. This seems to more more like Jennifer overcompensating than it does Ruth being secretly terribly miserable all the time.
I feel like the comments are all anti-Billie so let me just say this. Ruth took away Jennifer’s say in their breakup. She muttered a breakup under her breath and then barricaded herself in her room where Jennifer couldn’t reach her. It was an incredibly one-sided and stifling breakup. And then she has the gall. The nerve to walk around asking “if she’s doing better.” And saying “I’m glad you’re ok”. YOU DONT GET TO SAY THAT. You don’t get to walk around like you sacrificed your relationship FOR me. You sacrificed our relationship for YOU. You sacrificed every argument, every time she thought you were gonna die, every kiss, every fuck, all the good times and bad and didn’t even let her be a party to it. It was selfish, plain and simple. She didn’t want to have an argument with Billie over their breakup so she decided to cut Billie completely out of the picture. And now she’s trying to act like she didn’t HER a favor. Fuck off with that self righteous shit. You’re not a sacrificial lamb, you’re not mother Theresa, you’re not Jesus Christ. You were just scared and now you’re trying to justify it by acting like it was what’s best for everyone. And acting all surprised that Jennifer’s got feelings about it.
I think Jennifer’s right about a lot of stuff in this comic but I also think “I’m glad you’re doing okay” is a pretty normal thing to say to an ex.
I think it comes off a bit different if you broke up with them to save them when they didn’t ask for that. Rather than real concern it can come off as asking for confirmation that you were right – that they would be better off without you.
Okay I see what you mean with that. I didn’t consider it from that angle.
I didn’t even think of that, suddenly her anger makes sense to me.
Yeah neither one is great but I’m pretty squarely on Jennifer’s side in that category and the people who are on Ruth’s side are a bit baffling to me
I didn’t think of it from this angle, so thank you.
boy jenni just looooooooves to assume she’s got everyone figured out. have she and booster hung out yet ? i think it could be enlightening for her. lol
either in that she’ll actually learn something about what people are actually thinking, or she’ll pick up on the fact that no one likes it when you assume what theyre thinking
That’s a strange thing to say in this specific situation, because here she’s right on the money about Ruth.
maybe in the first and last speech bubbles. not sure about any of that in between
I must say Jen’s got a point here.
People commenting about the “Raidah’s friends” thing – I’ll just say that it took almost a decade of hanging out with people I met through my spouse to call them “my friends” and not “my spouses friends”, even the ones I hung out with more than my spouse does. so it’s hard for some people. It’s only been like 3 months for Jennifer
Also I think it’s an easy way to establish which set of friends she’s talking about.
That makes sense, and it’s fair, but given WE know that Raidah and Carl don’t actually like her, I think it feels telling that she calls them Raidah’s friends. Maybe I’m reading too much into it but I think Jennifer knows more than maybe she’d like to admit.
…Why are people being so mean to Jennifer? I don’t like it.
Who’s being mean to her? She’s the only one saying anything right now.
They mean the people in the comments who are upset that Jennifer is still upset at how she got dumped.
Everything Jennifer is bragging about (stable friends who are supportive and not violent) is exactly what Ruth wanted for her. It doesn’t make Ruth happy, per say. And neither of them are fully aware of the negative elements of Raidah and her friends. But it’s possibly solidifying Ruth’s choices in her own head.
Jennifer doesn’t have to be wrong about Ruth secretly wanting her to come break the door down and make them get back together or being sad and heartbroken about the breakup for the above to be true.
But she also isn’t required to be chummy with the person who broke up with her. So maybe they need to stop having these conversations!
I am, and probably always will be, on the Everyone Needs Therapy side.
Everyone but Dina.
Everyone Including Dina.
I have a sense this is one thing we’re not gonna agree on any time soon. No hard feelings tho. 😉
Therapy is just a thing that lets people talk about their psychosocial world view in an assumedly safe environment. As an undiagnosed neurodivergent it would probably be nice for her to discuss her thoughts and feelings with a therapist or something. IMO at least.
Also, have you forgotten that Jennifer is already doing therapy.
It’s effective too. She’s really DROWNING in mental health.
Billie definitely has got some issues to work through haha. Poor, sad little Billie
Jennifer, someone can be sad you broke up and simultaneously be at least a little happy for you, and also not be ‘pissed off’ that your/Raidah’s friends aren’t doing those things (because if she was pissed off about that, that would be incredibly awful)
Why is Jennifer being such an ass about this? It wasn’t that long ago that she was actually trying to hook Ruth up with with Daisy. Now she’s just trying to make Ruth feel crappy? I really don’t get it.
lmao but Raidah’s friends aren’t stable and they’re gonna betray Jennifer and Billie. Her bf killed got her friend killed and she doesn’t know and Raidah only wants to be friends with her to get back at that group. She’s living a huge lie and doesn’t know and it’s gonna blow her the bits.
So the only thing I’m getting from the above numerous arguments is that nuance is dead.
I’m getting to this late so this is the first comment I see after clicking the “Comments” link.
I get the sense that I’m not going to have a good time once I scroll up.
You know Billie, it seems more YOU who is having these anger issues…
Your friends are shit, girl. Absolute shit. And they lack the awareness to ever realize that.