Given that Becky is insulted by Joyce’s atheism, and is actively trying to pull Joyce back to Christianity (as some sort of fucked up coping mechanism, imo), it’s not friendly at all.
Becky might THINK it is. And I, for one, cannot wait for Becky to reach the Finding Out stage.
As an autistic who didn’t have the “oh shit it’s autism” learning curve about myself until I was quite a bit older than Joyce… I’ve experienced that a LOT. And I always hated it but I was also taught not to establish and reinforce my own boundaries and didn’t know that I could demand different treatment or walk away.
Joyce has rarely if ever seemed comfortable with Becky’s version of a “banter dynamic” and Becky has commented on multiple occasions that she loves making Joyce make a face that implies distress. If, between them, they don’t know that autism may well impact Joyce’s ability to know when behaviour is not okay AND her ability to ask it to be stopped, then they need to learn that soon- and the longer it takes the harder it is likely to hit them both when they realise how it’s affected things between them.
I’ve never liked how Becky pushes Joyce’s buttons for fun. And I don’t think Joyce does either.
That’s… interesting. But I’m not going to assume it’s true until it’s canon (just because things can change in writing and editing and I don’t like to assume things will happen until they do.) But should that come to pass… it likely wouldn’t be smooth, no, but it could be cathartically not-smooth. Like, my husband and I are both autistic and I’ve always tried to do what’s right for him… but we didn’t KNOW we were autistic or what autism really IS and I have to live with knowing what I thought was right at the time was not.
An arc of Becky learning that lesson and learning to live with it… that would be a good thing I think, if that’s the direction it goes. Both from my personal perspective as a reader but also for the characters.
I’ve been hurt VERY badly by this dynamic in my own life by someone who insisted it was just friend banter LONG past the point it was clear it was bothering me and long past the point I asked them to knock it off.
So really, this isn’t changing my opinion of Becky at all, in that I still think she’s kind of a shitty boundary-breaking friend.
I think the important factor is whether Joyce likes it or not (and communicates that). If she enjoys this dynamic because it’s familiar and she thinks it’s a fun expression of knowledge and love, then it’s all good! If she makes a boundary — if she tells Becky “too far, please stop”, then Becky must stop — otherwise she will indeed be like your bad experience with your ex-friend. (I assume they’re your ex-friend, bc they sound terrible.)
Personally, I am a gentle soul who doesn’t usually enjoy that type of friend-banter. I like to be mainly supportive together — and when we do tease each other, we check in. But I know some pals really like it, so, different strokes.
…. although, as Dina once pointed out, Becky [and Joyce] were raised to believe that pleasure is evil and violence is love. And they weren’t allowed to have a lot of boundaries. So who the heck knows.
And that’s the problem. I think a lot of it she has long taken as just a friendly banter dynamic, and it’s been a thing from such a young age they’re never developed a practice of checking in, but now it’s grating on her and she’s got no idea how to set a boundary without blowing up about it. Which she will eventually.
And Becky’s leaning in harder than normal because of her own issues – in general and with Joyce over atheism.
I’d say there is a difference between friendly teasing/banter and actually pushing someone’s buttons, taking things too far. Becky has demonstrated a regular habit of the latter and very little remorse. Whether this is the former or the latter case is up to Joyce, and the cues she’s demonstrating here seem to indicate the latter. It could go the other way in future strips, too early to tell without things like tone to give a better emotional read, but the body language, facial cues, and the way she’s phrasing her response suggest to me that she is genuinely bothered here, meaning Becky would be crossing the line if my read is correct.
“Becky has demonstrated a regular habit of the latter”
Has she, though?
I mean, I totally believe she’s doing so here, but the only other person I can remember her winding up like this is Dorothy, and as I’m sure everyone’s sick of me saying, Dorothy outright said that it didn’t bother her, and that she believed Becky was only really doing it because it didn’t bother her. Right up until it did, of course, at which point Becky’s reaction was immediately “How can I walk this back without admitting what I did was wrong or I regret it in any way?”
Which isn’t great, but isn’t “Whatever, let’s keep pushing” either.
I would be curious to see where Dorothy said it didn’t bother her. I remember her admitting that her coping strategy was patience until Becky grew out of it.
But does Becky know she’s taking things too far? I get the feeling that, if the roles were reversed, Becky would not make much of it. That’s not where her pain is, I think.
I avoid banter like the plague because at my high school, it was mainly used as a way of bullying that went under the teachers’ radar. About half the school population were pint-sized version of that @$$hoe who always goes “Nah, I’m funning you, mate, don’t take it seriously” when they totally mean it seriously.
When done well, between friends who know each other well and actually care and pay attention, it looks rough, but you can actually avoid any real vulnerable spots because you know where they are. And if you do land an unintentional hit, you can back off because you see the difference in reaction.
Yup. I learned to take pills by putting one just under my tongue, toward the front, filling my mouth with a big swig of water (or juice, or milk, or…), and then giving the pill a little poke with the tip of my tongue to toss it up into the water. Swallow the drink right away, and your throat never registers the sensation that you’ve washed down a pill along with it.
(It helped that some pills were candy coated or candy flavored.)
I got to the point where I don’t even need to involve my tongue at all anymore! I can swallow a dozen pills at once and never taste any of them! Although, I wouldn’t recommend taking pills with milk if taste is part of the issue, like it is with me, as whenever I did it with milk the flavor of the pills would suffuse the milk and make it all nasty before I could swallow it, especially with tablets, capsules don’t break down as quickly in regular fluids, but it’s still a bit of an issue. I don’t know if juice is better or worse than water, as I was never much of a juice drinker, even as a kid, so I don’t think I ever took pills with it.
I don’t know if it applies to birth control but some pills can be crushed before taking them. They used to do that for me when I was in the hospital and was too weak to swallow a pill. That could work well for Joyce.
Don’t crush your pills without asking your doctor first. Some pills will irritate or hurt your throat and make it harder to swallow. Also, some pills are designed to be slowly disolved in your stomach acids and you dont need the full dose right on your esofagus.
Oh, also had hypertonic saline nebs a few times as a kid and even those aren’t as bad as theophylline. That shit is VILE.
(No, I don’t have CF, it’s just pediatric Type 1 brittle asthma treatment has a lot of overlap with CF treatment. Thankfully my asthma got less severe with age).
As an addendum: if you’re given an option, the extra $ for the coating is worth it on prednisone pills. Easier on your stomach and you don’t have to try to get the taste out of your mouth. Trust me, your taste buds will thank you.
I just pop it in my mouth and pour the water in myself. I could swallow it without water but sometimes it gets stuck so better to just have the extra assist.
I do it the other way around. Get enough liquid in my mouth that with my head tilted back a mess is definitely a potential outcome, drop the pill in, swallow it all, then drink some more immediately because I swear I can feel it sticking to the back of my throat every time.
My life over the past year or so has basically been a journey of “for fucks sake that’s autism too?!” And I had one of those moments with regards to Joyce swallowing pills. I can do it now no problem but as a child I simply… couldn’t. And my parents couldn’t fathom this so of course I was being “difficult” on purpose.
I learned, but all I will say is that the way I learned is one I would very strenuously not advise.
My advice? Start smaller. When I insisted on teaching my younger niece, we followed a list that starts with *nerds*, carefully going from smallest to largest over a few days. THEN mini m&ms, then… iirc, the next one was tic tacs, followed by regular m&ms, then jelly belly jelly beans, then good and plenties, regular jelly beans, and… idk, I think the last one was maybe mike & ikes, but we didn’t bother at that point.
Our goal was to start and end every day with a win, even if that meant moving down to a smaller size than she’d done previously.
Even for tablets, you can get a pill crusher and mix the resulting powder into apple sauce, or whatever else. With capsules, though, I’d consult a pharmacist first, as capsules can have a time delay that’s factored into the dosage, so just dumping the powder out can mess with the effectiveness. Granted, as a male I’ve never had to mess with birth control pills, so I dunno if that’s a factor there.
Also, as someone notes further down the page, it can have the undesired result of causing someone to associate “applesauce” with “medicine”, to the point where the former becomes just as unpalatable and inedible as the latter.
I struggled when I was younger until I stumbled upon realizing that I could do it if I dry swallowed. Any time I tried with a liquid, I’d drink and the pill would still be in my mouth. As to not scratch up the throat, some water right after is a good idea.
I think it’s better to take them dry in a pinch than to skip them because you don’t have time or ready access to a liquid, but yeah, it’s best to always take them with liquid if at all possible.
It also probably shouldn’t be with any liquids that contain pharmacologically active ingredients, like alcohol, caffeine, cold medicine, or whatever. It can mess with the chemistry.
Yeah, my method is head back with half-full mouth of water, drop the pill on top and swallow fast as possible. I’m pretty fine with capsules, but powdery pills are sensory hell, so sometimes I’ll stick them inside jelly or something.
In my experience, “the pill” is on the small-side, so it’s easier than most.
A lot of people on this thread have normal sized tonsils and therefore gag reflexes within a few standard deviations of the norm and it really shows here. They changed the generic brand of my birth control pills and it was a slightly less coated tablet and it stuck to my tonsils like 4/10 times I tried to swallow (after several years on the pill) and it was so miserable I had to get my doctor to write they couldn’t sub the brand and now I have to wait like 3 days after the refill request for them to order the right brand every time. All other pills must be in capsule form. I still don’t get them down all the time or my gag reflex gets going so bad I start dry heaving in between pills and feel sick to my stomach for several hours. Usually that’s when it’s bad allergy season and everything is swollen, but I’m also allergic to dust and mold which are around all the time soooo that’s fairly frequent.
Be thoroughly hydrated before taking pills and use a nasal spray regularly to reduce the swelling in the throat region. That’s my advice.
And yes, I should get my tonsils out, but I grew up in the (apparently relatively brief) era when they weren’t taking them out unless it was “absolutely necessary” and as an adult I have never had a job where I could get away with not being able to speak for a week or more. And surgeries are expensive.
Becky’s “baby M&Ms” comment came off to me like she was implying that potentially-autistic Joyce was like a small child who can’t do anything by herself.
It sounded just as ableist as calling Dina a “robot girl.”
She got the product name wrong. They’re “M&M’s Minis“, and just a smaller version of regular M&M’s. Here’s a size comparison I stole off Reddit. Notice how the “Mega” M&M has a smaller “m” than the regular one to make it look even bigger than it actually is.
I think she just suggested them because they’re tiny and easy to swallow.
I agree with the other person – it’s not the part with the advice, it’s the part where she says it’s about teaching little kids. Joyce isn’t a little kid, nor is she acting like one. She’s a young adult with a common problem.
The problem isn’t that Joyce and Dina don’t have anything in common. It’s that both have already decided what to think of the other. Ironically a trait they have in common keeps them from getting along.
Yeah, but you can read that as “please don’t be offended that I’m coming to you for autistic advice” which is an understandable opener considering Dina’s reaction to Joyce potentially getting a diagnosis…
i’m not sure if becky would ‘back off’ if joyce really insisted, but i don’t think she considers it infantalizing versus “teasing my uptight best friend” b/c that’s apparently been their dynamic since childhood
but i assume becky’s not as purposefully assholeish enough to ‘double down’ on treating her that way
(also seems like a waste of m&ms if you can’t even enoy the chocolate taste you’ll only be gaining the empty calories/pounds haha)
It’s kind of fascinating that Joyce kind of pushes every one of Dina’s buttons. Dina hates religious fundamentalists and ignorance and hasn’t adapted to the fact that Joyce is no longer one as well as curious. She doesn’t believe Joyce was in an abusive home because she’s come to the conclusion that Becky has but doesn’t apply it to Joyce. Also, she thinks Joyce is a bigot against her because of the robot girl comment — which, fair, is a abelist slur — while interrogating Joyce about child abuse while she’s suffering severe cramps and after asking her to leave. Then Joyce gets the diagnosis that Dina has been wanting but got racistly told was her not speaking English well.
And Joyce doesn’t KNOW any better so she keeps pushing all of Dina’s buttons.
Does Dina not believe Joyce was in an abusive home? I don’t think that’s the case. I think she might think it wasn’t as bad for Joyce as for Becky, because Joyce said that, but that’s not the same as not thinking it was abusive.
She definitely did it with AT LEAST Sal as well. Until she found out that Sal’s reflex response to waking up to someone looming over her was “grab neck, squeeze”.
That’s not actually why she stopped. She actually figured out that most people didn’t like to be woken up that way.
Which Becky didn’t seem to get – which also probably plays into why Dina did it to Joyce. She was following Becky’s lead on something Joyce had stopped doing.
I mean, she certainly IMPLIES that’s why she stopped doing it to Sal.
“I feel there’s an important reason I don’t wake Sal up like this anymore.” implies she still wakes other people like this, and that the reason she stopped waking Sal up like this is that breathing is actually important.
While she was still doing it. Here’s where she actually stops. The development that led to that is spread out, but it’s clear to me it’s not as simple as “breathing is actually important” and also that Becky doesn’t get it and hasn’t changed.
I think coming to the realisation that a home was abusive instead of “just shit” (younger me’s words) is potentially a slow one and expressing it clearly to others isn’t immediate. Plus if someone sees something as entirely normal they’re going to talk as such, NOT talk about it as abuse, and a lot of it won’t come out because to them- it’s normal. (See Dina interrogating Joyce and it coming out that she was struck as a form of “discipline”.)
My point here is- has Joyce learned to say, even to herself, “my upbringing was abusive? Has Becky? Has Dorothy, Sarah, Joe? “It’s fucked up”, I can see, but “it’s abuse”? And I’m neither sure that they haven’t come to that conclusion (although I don’t believe anyone has), nor looking down on a teenager for not yet having the life experience to look at a bunch of red flags and realising they add up to abuse, not just to an unusual colour scheme.
She absolutely has not. See her recent conversation with Dina about the wooden spoon, and how badly she reacted when Sarah implied that Joyce was traumatized by her childhood. She’s fine! She’s totally fine! Her upbringing was normal! She’s willing to call her *religion* a cult, which is amazing strides, and we know she’s not on speaking terms with her mother, but she’s still in the shallows of confronting the full spectrum of how damaging her upbringing was with regards to her family itself, and parents specifically.
The fact that she’s still trying to make it work with her dad probably complicates that, because obviously he was complicit in the choices he and Carol made, but I bet Joyce wants to cling to the idea that he was a good father at this moment in time where she’s having to admit that her mother is not and possibly never was a good mother. I like Hank; he’s trying to improve himself and seems to be making strides there, and I place a very, very high value on that quality—but he *also* made choices that harmed his daughter a lot, and she’s going to have to recognize that eventually, even if she chooses to forgive him for them.
Poor Joyce. She is really going through it, and she’s gonna be going through it for a long, long time. This shit can take years to work through, even a whole lifetime, and she’s only a few months in.
I agree with you.
And I really wish we’d all take a break from the constant approach of judging which character is the most right/wrong at a given moment, because this comic isn’t a morality play or an AITA. This entire comic is more a portrait piece of all the characters. Mix ’em up, put em together, add a generous heaping of trauma, and see what they’ll do. It isn’t about who will be most right, it matters more that they’ll be interesting as they change and fail and grow.
A little detached fascination might be a good thing for me right now. Portrait piece.
I hate how much this comments section just…destroys the ability to appreciate the complexity of the actual character interactions and the overall narrative. Yeah yeah it’s my own fault, I should just stay away…but it’s the only place there is to talk about, you know, the actual character interactions and the overall narrative in the actual comic strip!
I think that’s just the nature of a character based story. Everyone has a favorite and inevitably chooses a side. I think comments are less of critique of individuals as they are a response to the moment itself. I don’t think it ruins the narrative because tomorrow the story moves on regardless of what we think.
Another comment that demonstrates the need for an upvote system. I think my sense of humor was permanently damaged sometime during the Voldemort administration.
Yeah, the overthinking that goes on here is really something at times. Reading the strip is essentially like watching a TV drama in 2-minute intervals—judging every single character within each 2-minute snapshot just gets to be a bit much.
I agree with your post, but I want to point out, because it’s a common misunderstanding I’ve seen a bunch now, that Joyce hasn’t actually been diagnosed yet, she’s got a referral to see a specialist to maybe get diagnosed
Yeah, an optometrist or gynecologist or whichever was the one who mentioned it to her is definitely not qualified to make that diagnosis. IIRC from when I was diagnosed as a kid, you need to see a specialist for a preliminary diagnosis, who then kicks you up the chain to a panel of specialists who evaluate you individually and together, and then deliberate before coming to a consensus, and even then they still ask you to come back in a year to re-evaluate just to be sure.
Joyce was informally diagnosed by the gynecologist who had an autistic child showing many of the same symptoms as Joyce, which triggered her Sesame Street senses (the opposite of the “One of these things” song). A parent of a ND child will pick up a ND adult much quicker than even a trained professional. Source: I’m a parent of 2 ND children out of 3.
Right. That’s the other thing that’s kind of annoying about how this comment section seems to work. Joyce got a *suggestion* that she might maybe be autistic, what, 48 hours ago? There’s always this wall of text about which people In Joyce’s circle are handling her “diagnosis” the right way every time it comes up and she doesn’t even have one yet.
Theoretically true, but narratively speaking that was her diagnosis. Unless we time skip again, it would be years of real time before she even sees the specialist and probably well past the end of the strip before she’s formally diagnosed.
Nor is Willis going to run with a wacky misunderstanding on something like this.
Yeah. It hasn’t been officially confirmed in-universe yet, but… really, c’mon. Something like that doesn’t get brought up/tossed out in a work like this unless the answer is “yes”, and IMO there’s plenty of evidence for it, past and present.
I agree, but while I think someone getting officially diagnosed by a professional as autistic is generally a good thing, it doesn’t mean they weren’t already autistic before they were diagnosed. And since an official diagnosis costs a lot of money in some places (America with its fucked-up healthcare system for example), and there are plenty of professionals who hold outdated ideas about autism, it’s not as easy to get diagnosed as some people might think.
I’m not entirely sure where I was going with this, but given the difficulty of getting diagnosed in some parts of the world, I definitely feel like identifying a character like Joyce and/or Dina as autistic despite them not yet being formally diagnosed is valid, and the same when people in real life suspect they’re autistic without yet being officially diagnosed by a professional.
Dina: I don’t want to talk to you about your autism [blah etc etc]
Dina, immediately inserting herself into a conversation after she walked away from Joyce???
honestly this is just slowly shifting my lens as Dina having a desire to feel superior to Joyce in some way. (her suffering is more real, she would simply say no to something, etc etc.)
Honestly I’m getting kind of burnt out on this comic. Joyce has been shown time and time again to at least try to be her best self. The second she’s no longer put into a specific box everyone treats her worse and the narrative itself seems to bend to punish her for things.
Like. Her life has just been trauma for the past 6 months or so. I don’t know how much more of people picking on Joyce’s neuroses and things that upset her or are clearly not things she’s equipped to handle I can feasibly read before I just drop it.
I get the feeling this is all a slow-burn setup for Joyce to turn to Joe when everyone else fails her…but GODDAMN is it a slow burn. This pacing is agony. How long has this in-comic week of “every single character except Joe is judging Joyce to her face” lasted outside of comic? 6 months? 9?
It is EXHAUSTING to be living in this dynamic for so long. Time skip, please, for goodness’ sake
It’s been 5 days in-universe since “Sister, Christian” and the start of Joyce’s conflict with her friends.
It’s been an entire year out-of-comic for us.
That means that we are experiencing these events 73 times slower than they are happening.
I don’t think time-skipping over the conflict would help, but I would love for it to take a back seat to other conflicts for a bit just to shake things up. Like the whole “Raidah recruiting Jennifer into her friend group” deal. I wanna see how that’s going. That’s probably why I liked the Halloween flashback – nice change of pace.
It’s a a large cast of characters with several arcs with 4 to 6 panels so yes the comic will naturally be a slow burn but at least Willis stays focused and gives characters time to develop. Not an easy task and its one of the reasons I have stayed with this comic for a decade.
I’m more burnt out on some of the comments section, honestly. Still waiting to see where the comic goes with this storyline (these storylines?) before deciding whether to keep reading or not, but yesterday’s comments section was a doozy.
When Dina says stuff like that I don’t think she means it as inserting herself. There’s a guy in one of our groups who responds to things with technically related, but not actually related, things. Like we’ll be talking about something, and share a comic about it, and he’ll share another comic by the same artist but with a different topic, and not understand why he didn’t get a positive reaction. He’s just trying to relate but not quite getting it right, and that’s what Dina did here.
Hey yeah the comments yesterday were pretty intense, and I just realized something — animosity spent here is animosity that COULD be going to those who really deserve it — im talking of course about Autism Speaks. 😡
Autism Speaks does indeed suck a fat one. They’re the exact kind of “people” who I only call “people” out of societal obligation. Because apparently it’s like, uncool to dehumanise someone even if they literally want you dead just for being born different and go out of their way to try and make that happen. Cuz something something transitive property, “if you’ll do it to them, you’ll necessarily do it to anyone”, or whatever.
If anything, the level of transparency is what draws the support to them. “We literally want to exterminate People Like You” is a lot more appealing to other homicidal bigots than “Hey, kindly refrain from turning us into spaghetti sauce”. They just want death and will flock to whatever banner lets them have it.
Basically (and this is the last I’ll say about that gaggle of freaks tonight), if some bloodthirsty group of terrorists is gonna declare me their enemy just for being born, they deserve any and all levels of retaliation, because it’s straight up a matter of survival.
I think the main reason a lot of people support them is because they’ve gotten way too much good PR in the past, and a lot of people are far too trusting that of charity organizations and don’t want to believe that some of them might be bad. That, and unfortunately there are plenty of neurotypical parents of autistic children who relate to the fucked up views that A$ promotes.
My rule of thumb is that if someone doesn’t consider me to be a person, I’m not going to bother considering them a person either. Sick and tired of existing at a nexus of multiple groups of people wanting to genocide people like me for totally different reasons. Just one is bad enough. Several is something I’m not sure I can handle much longer.
Dina told Joyce she doesn’t want to have a serious conversation about a subject that brings up a lot of resentment and complicated feelings for her just because Joyce is curious.
That doesn’t mean she’s no longer allowed to talk to Joyce at all.
What bugs me is the bizarro food aversion gatekeeping. Like, so many people are just weirdly invested in this arbitrary divide between “THIS person REALLY has food aversions but all those OTHER people are just acting like CHILDREN” like why do they even care? Since when do they have a say in what other people do or don’t eat?
People really do care way too much about shit that doesn’t affect them on even a wide-scale domino sort of level. It’s all just so fucking masturbatory, some folks can’t go ten seconds without shitting their literally-useless opinions on everyone’s faces.
Oh, hey, yay, we’re back at the “everyone treating Joyce like a baby about her birth control the second they see her” plotline. My favorite. /s
*checks the tumblr preview panels to see how long until the storyline is over*
Man, I was so hype about yesterday’s comic and all the fun new character dynamics it proposed and then today’s comic hit and I was reminded that we’re stilled getting dragged through my current least favorite character dynamic at the pace of a snail on Nyquil.
That’s not to say that it’s poorly written or anything, Willis is still a phenomenal character writer with a real knack for sharp, compact dialogue. It’s just kind of the inevitability of Webcomic Time.
We now return to our regularly-scheduled broadcast. Up next is a perennial favorite, Joyce gets beaten over the head with a fucking hammer, now in the midst of its twelfth season.
Honestly, I’m extremely skeptical Joyce’s uterus actually IS all that functional. The pills wouldn’t necessarily be stopping it so much as bringing it in line.
Like, it could be endometriosis or it could be PCOS or something and everyone else assumes her periods are normal when they’re not killer and actually she’s only getting them every three months (and when they come they are killer.) The latter tends to be “Oh hey, I’m bleeding once a month at a straightforward time with normal, sane amounts of cramping.” The former can also be fairly irregular. And uh, either one can potentially have implications for longterm fertility, particularly if left untreated. I don’t expect Becky to know this, but uh. Good news, Joyce! What it’s actually doing is likely to be slightly more complicated but ultimately probably helpful if you want to have kids someday.)
(God I cannot imagine Joyce reacting well to the idea of getting pregnant herself if she actually thinks about how gestation works. But we’ll get there when we get there. I suspect/hope we will someday get to her considering it in an abstract way but actually thinking through it, though, because the face that will ensue will be legendary.)
I’m trans-masc and started testosterone in my early twenties and for about five years prior I’d used birth control to manage my periods. But as a teenager? Mine were horrific. And I was basically just treated as making a big deal over nothing. And being autistic I just pushed through when I should have turned to someone and kept asking for help because I believed them and what could be worse than making a big deal out of things?
My point being, people treating a teenage girl’s broken periods and clear signs of something being Medically Up With This as not a big deal is definitely a thing that exists. So I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if that was the case.
I mean Becky for all people should know how delicate subject it is to Joyce and I bet that if it wasn’t for the distraction of the problem with swallowing pills Joyce would have had a “not a hussy” attack
A tip for anyone who is saying they can swallow pills no problem all at once, please do drink water when you do! Some pills can easily burn/damage the esophagus if this is repeated a lot
Husband recently had to have high-strength (for the UK, it’s a thing) pain meds for a back issue. He started taking them and felt sick afterwards, so he was also prescribed something to help with his tummy.
When we got home I looked at the box and was like “okay, so what food did you take it with?” Then I had to be Strict Husband and say that no, a small snack is not enough, if it says to take with food we’ll have an actual meal.
Oddly, he didn’t have a tummy issue after that.
(I blame autistic literalism and not having learned it the hard way because I have done the EXACT same thing in the past. But it does just say “with food”! A slice of toast is food! Can’t they clarify how much food is a minimum?! Like, “at least a small meal”? Or have a guide and the labels refer you to it? Or SOMETHING?! Because if you haven’t learned the hard way “with food” is not helpful! Rant done.)
Yes, well, you see, Dina, that some of us weren’t given the option of simply refusing. Some of us had the “option” of refusing but only with a hidden stigma and punishment attached to it.
Anyway I was going to guess what Joyce may have endured but whoops that awoke some memories so I’ll stop there. (not too bad but decidedly not fun)
My sister and I were allowed one thing to refuse to eat. Not per meal, at all. We could change it if we wanted, but only after trying whatever new thing we didn’t like at least once. I don’t want to say it sidestepped this issue (and I’m ignoring food allergies and such because my folks were both highly sensitive to medical issues) but it did give us space to have SOME control of our diet while keeping us from just eating chicken nuggets and french fries. It also didn’t keep the ingredient from appearing at the table, so it did mean that we usually had a chance to give it another try along the way.
For those curious, mine was snap peas until I was introduced to Zucchini. Neither ever redeemed themselves to my palette, but I did learn to accept Zucchini as an ingredient in larger recipes (though I still avoid it served on its own).
I mean, most people who do not have serious food aversions will still manage to eat things other than just chicken nuggets and french fries, even as children, so long as the parents serve those other things to them. It’s not like that “only one dislike” rule is what prevented you from living off of two foods.
Mine is mushrooms. They look disgusting when they grow outside, and they’re nasty little slices of dirt on food.
It must be a texture thing, because I can’t eat steamed clams either. They’re slimy little things that just taste like the salty sand they’re extracted from. (Clam cakes are amazing, though.)
I almost want this to turn into a confrontation about the specific fact that when Joyce called Dina a robot what she *meant* was that she assumed Dina has never tried refusing something her parents or another adult ordered her to do which would (in Joyce’s mind) naturally result in getting beaten for it.
THANK YOU for being like one of the few people in the comments who even seemed to comprehend what was happening in that strip. Joyce and Dina were deeply misunderstanding each other and that kinda matters a lot. I’m sick of the “Well Joyce said something horrible to Dina today” argument popping up everywhere without even acknowledging that this was Dina misunderstanding what Joyce meant, which isn’t Dina’s fault, but is radically different than “Joyce just chose to say something horrible to Dina because… reasons.”
Regardless of INTENT, the IMPACT was that Dina experienced bigotry from someone in her social circle and it upset her.
Dina is allowed to feel as if Joyce said something mean to her (because she did, whether she meant to or not), and Joyce is allowed to feel like people are up her ass about the pills and other things (because they are, whether they mean to be or not).
Sometimes we have to apologise for the impact of our actions regardless of our intent.
True. OTOH sometimes one is blinded by one’s intent. Sometimes it is helpful for the one impacted to choose to ride the adrenalin and say, with icy calm (so much as possible), “that hurt me. Why did you say that?”
That’s absolutely true, but from outside it’s still useful to dissect intent, so we can see where the characters are coming from.
Just focusing on “Joyce called Dina a ‘robot girl'” might capture the impact on Dina, which is important, but it doesn’t tell us anything about why Joyce said that, which can tell us more about Joyce as a character, which is also important.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Joyce forcing down food at other people’s houses may be related to her getting less spankings with a wooden spoon for being “difficult.”. Yaknow, socially unacceptable and/or embarrassing to her parents in their community behaviors so she also preemptively corrects other behaviors but would rather avoid if she can.
Some of us weren’t given the option without suffering punishment, and decided the punishment was worth it. And on at least one occasion, made things worse by abandoning their ‘dinner’, taking the dog’s bowl, plopping it down on the table, and proceeding to eat that, to make the point that even that garbage was better than being subjected to baked beans and cornbread. Again.
Y’know. Hypothetically speaking. I certainly don’t know anybody who would find such a way to tell their parents to fuck off without actually saying the words. Nope.
My parents were the “you will sit at the table until you finish” type. Which, as someone with the food issues of autism and the finding understimulation genuinely traumatising of ADHD… that was a nightmare. I physically couldn’t make myself eat it, but sitting there doing nothing was- it was torturous. Genuinely.
All it resulted in was me getting good at learning how to dispose of my food without getting caught, and having a deep sense of guilt and shame over not being able to finish or even start eating food to this day. When my brain says it can’t eat something it just can’t. Thankfully my husband is wonderfully supportive… and doesn’t have food issues and will finish my dinner for me.
I relate to a lot of Joyce’s food hangups, but strangely I don’t remember ever having trouble with pills. I definitely remember trying really hard to not taste certain things, though. Unfortunately the smell itself tended to trigger my gag reflex. I definitely remember my parents accusing me of faking it and threatening to spank me, though they quit doing that as I got older and these days I basically just do what Dina talks about in the last panel. (To be very clear, I’ve never actually been diagnosed, but I have family who have been and I’ve suspected I might be autistic for a while.)
Same for me.
Collard greens always made me nauseous.
I remember my parents trying to feed me with my eyes closed and telling one bite was meatloaf and the other bite was greens (like I can’t smell, taste, and FEEL the difference).
And then when I threw up later, they said I made myself do it.
They eventually gave up.
I also remember not liking cabbage, but it was only after my dad beat me because my grandma complained I wouldn’t eat it that I remember cabbage making me nauseous, too.
More than 30 years later, and I still get nauseous.
Was also threatened, and heard/seen the spanking happen to my siblings. I was the youngest so I was spared for the most part (I’m certain it’s happened before, but they’re telling me it didn’t). I was just force fed stuff I hated while I was crying lol
I don’t *think* Becky’s trying to be a humongous honking asshole to her childhood friend right here, but if that’s was what she intended to do, I’m not sure what she’d be doing differently.
That’s what friendship is to Becky: being a humongous honking asshole. None of this affection or support nonsense, just mocking neuroses and advertising embarrassing things and verbal digs 24/7.
(Seriously, when was the last time Becky was actually nice to/about Joyce unprompted? I honestly don’t remember.)
Becky likes to talk about the things that happened to her in a way that leaves out any of the actual religion. Joyce talks about being in a cult. Becky doesn’t.
The one time that Joyce called her out on it, she made a plan to re-convert her.
There was a point, earlier in the comic, when Becky first showed up, when the unbalanced nature of their friendship bothered me less—the dynamic where Joyce priorities Becky’s needs and wants very, very highly, above her own, and Becky ALSO prioritizes Becky’s needs and wants very, very highly, above Joyce’s own. When Becky showed up on Joyce’s doorstep, her life had completely fallen apart because she’d been accidentally outed, and she was homeless, in physical danger from her father, and understandably in a *lot* of emotional distress. Joyce 100% stepped up to help Becky and keep her safe, examined and discarded her homophobia, and eventually even her own faith—the same faith that put Becky in so much distress and danger in the first place. Joyce did pretty much everything right, and she was a great friend to someone who desperately needed it.
But things have changed a LOT since then; Becky’s life has gotten considerably *more* stable (thanks in part to Joyce’s unflagging support! Like, yeah, Hank was the one who opened a joint checking account with Becky to give her more financial support, but do we think that would have happened if Joyce’s reaction to finding out Becky was gay was to cut her loose? Hank has not made a secret of the fact that Joyce’s moral courage and insistence on claiming Becky as family has inspired him to make changes in his life), at the same time that Joyce’s life has become LESS stable (thanks in part to Joyce’s unflagging support of Becky! The loss of her faith, her parents’ divorce, her estrangement from her mother and at least one of her siblings—all of this is heavily tied to the drama surrounding Becky and her father, and where in all that mess Joyce chose to plant herself and refuse to move. None of it is Becky’s fault, but nevertheless, those things are very much connected). And despite this, despite the fact that Joyce is really, really struggling *herself*, now, the Becky/Joyce dynamic is still incredibly unbalanced in favor of Becky’s needs and wants, including very unfair, unhealthy, unsustainable desires like “my friend never changing unless it’s in a way that specifically benefits me”. Worse yet, the rest of Joyce’s friends’ circle has so thoroughly bought into this Becky-over-all prioritization that Joyce asserting her own desires against Becky’s even a little bit earns her lectures on how she’s being a selfish asshole or a child.
It’s really depressing, and it’s unhealthy, and it’s why I wish they’d take a break on their friendship for awhile, and do some growing as individuals.
Whether or not the characters will notice is frustratingly uncertain.
Still holding out for Joyce flipping her lid about Becky mocking her, and Dina watching it happen and going “ohhhhh, okay, maybe she actually can sympathize”. It’s an unrealistic hope but I hope anyway.
Hm. I feel like this could go one of two ways, either Dina picks up on the infantilization due to her life time of experience with it, or she misses it because it’s so normalized to her and she’s used to more overt/aggressive displays of it.
…I wonder if we’ll get a Dina/Becky conflict if Becky refuses to stop infantilizing Joyce and take her feelings seriously. And if this is coupled with Dina learning Becky is trying to and reconvert Joyce? Phew. That could be a minefield.
I dunno, the parts that don’t involve shithead bigots and “well-meaning” dipshits are usually alright, at least for me. I love being able to near- perfectly recall old cartoons I watched a few times as a kid, down to every character’s exact inflections, as one example. I’ve met plenty of allistics who can barely remember a quote they heard literally five seconds before they tried to repeat it, and that’s just normal for them.
That part about old cartoons, me too. I used to do the same with cartoons like Magic Schoolbus and Grossology, it’s how I developed my incredible passion for science! 🥰
I haven’t felt the spark for it in so long. It’s like, what would happen if Dina went through trauma that beat that out of her and turned her into Maleficent? That’s basically me, I feel like a shadow of my former self. 😔
I’ve always loved The Magic School Bus, wellerman! <3 But yeah, also been feeling kinda sparkless 🙁
I feel like my memory is a lot better with childhood favorites than something like what did I have for lunch yesterday. Also been diagnosed with ASD, though perhaps I'm more generically neurodivergent with a mix of being bad at adulting / avoidance tendencies. I think like half of my dad's side of the family is probably neurodivergent, tbh.
Okay, so we ignore them and they kill us without resistance. That’s the reality. The term “living rent free” does not apply when a group is actively attempting to eliminate you.
Taffy, I never said that. Please do not twist my words or otherwise try to strawman the conversation. I am fully aware of how shitty the world is for the disabled and the different. I am fully aware of how shitty it is for me. I had a federal judge tell me I was fit to pick fruit.
I am simply stating that simply BEING autistic does not make someone less invalid than anyone else, but assuming it DOES will affect your mental health.
I’m not trying to “strawman” anything. What you said came across exactly the same as all the platitudes autistic people get force-fed constantly, and that’s what I was pushing back against. If that’s not how you meant it, then I apologise for the misunderstanding. I’d rather not fight someone who’s not actually my enemy, anyhow.
Yeah no, violent bigots aren’t gonna play by kindergarten bully rules and just stop if you ignore them. Don’t downplay people’s lives trauma with internet catchphrases.
Bryy, I say this as tactfully as I can manage: Do you tell queer people not to let homophobic people live in their heads rent free when they point out that violent homophobes exist and are the source of most of queer suffering?
Because you just did the exact equivalent to autistic people.
People are angry with you because in response to pointing out the reality of our oppression, you responded with toxic positivity and minimization.
In response to people pushing back, you turn around and play the victim by pretending people are accusing you of telling us to lie down and die. That is not what anyone has accused you of. They are accusing you of minimizing and victim blaming autistic people for the results of said oppression by accusing trauma survivors of “letting” those who traumatized us live in our heads rent free.
Taffy was pointing out that when a dedicated hate group is trying to eliminate you and people like you, ignoring them doesn’t work.
You then moved the goalposts about what you said. However, moving the goalposts does not work as this is a message board with permanent comments history. I need only look up a couple posts to see your comment wasn’t at all about validity and was about insinuating that trauma survivors are responsible for their own suffering by letting their abusers live in their heads rent free.
It is you who are arguing dishonestly, not Taffy or the Oracle.
Hell, kindergarten bullies don’t even follow that rule. They double down until they get a rise out of you. And if you go to an adult about it, you both get punished.
“Just ignore the bully and they’ll stop” is empty bullshit some school administrator pulled out of their ass as an excuse to not give a fuck about the wellbeing of the children under their supervision.
This has been my experience with every form of abuse I’ve experienced. Usually if I ignore a non abusive person after they do a red flag behavior, they stop because I seem upset. When I ignore an abusive person, they try harder to hurt me.
Cyber bullying is like this too, people just double down if you ignore them.
Saying “We’re never going to change those people” is a false confirmation: if you assume you will never succeed, then you will not try, and then of course you will not change them.
Call me naive, but I believe many people who act as bigots do so unvolontarily, and by making these people change their behaviour, we can make the world a better place for minorities.
Not to mention the vast majority who don’t really act at all, but by not acting, make it possible for the actual bigots to get away with their bigotry.
It absolutely CAN make your life worse or better. Someone who has a meltdown because there’s other people around is going to struggle. Someone who can’t go shopping because there’s too much visual noise and they can’t process it is going to struggle. Someone who seriously struggles with noise, especially the noise of people just being people… is going to struggle.
I’m sure the point is made (and for the record I experience all of the above) but here’s some other things that are shit to live with. Executive dysfunction. Struggling with light. Not being able to eat the food you bought expecting to be able to eat. Situational mutism and speech loss episodes. Being semi or non verbal (I do not experience this one but my husband does). Being unable to spend time with a special interest that is screaming to you. Not knowing when you need the toilet to the point that you wet yourself. Not knowing when you’re hungry until you swing between unknowingly starving yourself and binge eating. I’m sure there’s more.
Autism might not, by itself, be debilitating or disabling for you. It might not make your life worse. But it’s a massively varied experience and there are plenty of people for whom it is disabling, debilitating, or just really unpleasant to live with.
Apologies for going off on one there but “it’s not a disability, it’s just (insert thing here) that makes it so” is an attitude I’ve seen before, more than once, and it is both hurtful and harmful.
Burnout really does suck. I’m not gonna say “it’ll pass” because I can’t know that and it’s frankly disrespectful to assume I can, but I will say that I sincerely hope it does pass.
It can be joyful! And it can get easier. I think a major hurdle for a lot of autistic folk is that society teaches us neurotypical coping mechanisms and then expects them to work for us.
As for joy… I can only speak from personal experience. And I don’t want to invalidate your own experience or where you are right now but I’d like to share some autistic joy. No pressure to read if you’re not in the right headspace.
I’ve been finding so much joy in connecting with my best friend and husband over our shared and differing autistic experiences. Shared validation has been a delight- albeit one that only matters after a lifetime of each of us being invalidated. Seeing the ways autism pops up but isn’t an issue is a source of delighted amusement for me- like the way my husband and I both do velociraptor hands and I never even realised, or seeing how “comfort TV” is a source of familiarity and routine for me. Being able to validate my husband being semi-verbal after a lifetime of him not even knowing it was a thing, and discussing learning sign language has such a promise of being wonderful for us if we do do it.
And that’s not touching on special interests! The way they inform and shape my mind, my views, my thoughts. The way they can help so much with being understimulated. And seeing the joy my husband gets from his recent projects (making videos about him talking about horror movies for Hallowe’en), or recognising how deeply and constant my best friend’s special interest (music) has been throughout his life. The joy of special interests can of course backfire, but when they add joy they can add SO MUCH joy it feels unreal.
Becky’s face in the penultimate panel is the opposite of endearing. Previously one could have chalked it up to this being their dynamic, but now they’ve had at least one major fight and several disputes. Becky doesn’t notice or doesn’t want to notice that the situation has changed
I suppose Joyce can’t use my method when I was five I bit into a pill and threw up so hard it hurt from that point I jsut swallowed pills. Its not really a method But since she seems acclimated to hurling and is 18 or 19 that’s not going to cut it.
Wait, I thought Becky doesn’t know about Joyce’s autism.
Dina probably won’t break her promise not to tell Becky about Joyce’s neurodivergence, and to tell her where she’s doing wrong here would ironically require just this.
Not necessarily. She doesn’t have to tell her that Joyce is autistic to point out that this probably hurt Joyce… I mean, I may or may not be autistic*, but I would probably flip if a friend pulled this kind of crap on me (though this may be because I am now old enough to not care if I lose a friend, and it might have been different in my late teens).
*I do relate with a lot of comments made by autistic people in this comment section, but have never gotten a diagnosis, for several reasons (good grades in school, a twin brother who I could heavily rely on on most social occasions, a family environment that was very patient with me and my “quirks”, which made a label pretty much unnecessary)
Becky…. Why? I would love to like you, bt I can’t. She’s just been such an ass lately, and her conversion plan is awful. Genuinely, what is she trying to do here? Friendly banter? If my friend said that to me I’d joke with her, but if we had added history like these two I’d just walk away. (Also note to Joyce who can’t hear me!: TMI! Dont let them know!)
Becky is an absolute scumbag and she has been for a very long time, even if we DON’T get into Dina (who I’m kinda mad at right now but whatever) deserving wayyyy better than someone who is significantly more in love with the idea of having a girlfriend than she is with her actual girlfriend. I’m sick enough of Becky and frankly like 3/4s of the cast (if not more at this point!) that I don’t know how much more of this comic I can even read. Every single time she shows up it’s just to be horrible to someone. Like, do we not have enough characters who basically exist solely to hurt or exploit other characters? We just keep going all-in on it forever? I genuinely can’t take much more of this. I don’t know if I even care if it’s building to something interesting or that I won’t hate. The ride is gruesome and I’m starting to think I want to disembark.
A couple of years ago I took a break for… probably over a year. I felt uncomfortable with the then-current storyline, and it being there every day was… difficult.
When I came back I was able to read through the entire storyline in one go and then continue on. It sounds like you might be in a similar emotional place- maybe a short break would be a good idea, and returning when you’re ready. Or even reading it once a month or once every two months- if a page feels bad and you’re reading as they go up you don’t have an immediate balm for that, but if you have a months worth you can read on and hopefully not have any single strip sit with you.
I get that Becky is going through A LOT- I mean, all that’s happened to her is awful. But regardless I think the way she’s been acting is shit, but I’m sure it’ll be resolved and addressed soon just like the issues with the others. I think you should take a break like Jason said, binge reading after a month might feel super rewarding and a lot more relaxing than waiting one day for every page.
So is Becky now shaming Joyce for taking medication instead of supporting her? Cause it lends a lot more justification for Joyce not trusting Becky with the knowledge that she’s autistic if she thought Becky would talk to her like this about things that are outside of her control
I think she’s more shaming her for being bad at taking medication, really. The rest is just her being bad at using words or treating anything seriously, because not taking things seriously is how she deals with her problems.
I know it’s building to something but I do hope we have more resolution to *gestures broadly* all this soon, like, Dorothy figures out which is more important: Joyce or Yale, Becky and Joyce finally hash out “hey maybe this banter is too far, old chum, it hits different nowadays”, Joyce is allowed to finally make out with someone nice, like Joe or Dotty or both
and if we could do it without, say, claims like “Joyce is like Elon Musk” or “Becky isn’t really traumatized and also isn’t a person, she’s a soulless puppet of Big Christianity” that would be just swell
Okay a big part of Dorothy’s character that I really appreciate is that she’s allowed to prioritize her career without being punished for it by the narrative. I want her to prioritize yale. I want her to do this in the form of, “still supporting Joyce, but kind of half ass-ing it in a way that Joyce appreciates because it makes her feel more independent.” Like what she’s currently doing but less effort.
I just don’t want her to stop being nice, if that makes sense? I was thinking more, “it’s okay, i know you got this.” That of course requires that Joyce actually gots this, which may not be true.
I don’t think Dorothy is capable of half-assing anything.
I think I get your point though and balancing a gentle and clearly loving encouragement for Joyce to become more independent would absolutely be a good thing.
I spent 4 years at a college across the country from my future husband’s college after dating 3 him in high school. Joyce and Dorothy can still be friends if Dorothy goes to Yale.
It’s possible that the people you’re waiting on are just gonna sit this one out. Personally speaking, I find that webcomics in general attract people who want to be King of the Forum, and on the occasions where that happens it’s best to just let them run it off instead of engaging directly.
It partially, ime, has to do with identifying so strongly with a character that they regard things happening to the character as happening to them directly.
Once, I was served food that made me puke. Luckily, I was a polite boy, so I just kept my mouth shut and swallowed the puke right down again. Nobody noticed a thing.
Once, I was served food that made me puke. Luckily, I was a polite boy, so I just kept my mouth shut and swallowed the puke right down again. Nobody noticed a thing.
Not really. Manners at their most basic are how we avoid getting into disputes and killing each other over stupid shit. They’re about respecting other people’s time and space.
They can be abused, certainly, and it can be tough for kids who are neurodivergent, haven’t figured out the rules, or both, but fundamentally manners are how we show respect to each other and that’s important.
Screw you. There’s a difference between “we have rules about respecting each other” and “a real person feels obligated to swallow their own vomit while eating something they can’t keep down because people will be cruel to them if they don’t.”
I would hope that you would give my post a more charitable view and see that I intended that situation to fall under the circumstances of my second paragraph.
I find it’s important to push back against generalities like “manners are bullshit” because that encourages some really bad behavior.
If excusing yourself to go expel the pre-existing vomit is “bad behavior”, sure. There absolutely are polite ways to handle that scenario without it being bad manners. Now, if you come back and say “Your food fucking sucks”, that’s maybe pretty rude. But if you come back and say something like “Sorry, something about that really messed with me, is it alright if I maybe don’t eat any more, just in case?”, that’s absolutely not bad manners and only an unreasonable person would see it that way. What I’m saying right now is, manners don’t start at involuntary bodily reactions. But to suggest it’s “more polite” to literally swallow your own puke than it is to do something else, that’s what encourages bad behavior.
…I mean, nothing about what you said would be bad manners? I’m talking about things like not screaming at a shopkeeper because you’re having a bad day, or tracking mud inside someone’s house because, after all, you don’t have to clean it up. “Manners are bullshit” seems to me to be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Let me be perfectly clear, then. I do not advocate for being deliberately shitty to people Just Because, and it’s ridiculous to take what I said to that extreme. Sometimes a short sentence doesn’t need to be followed with a novel in order to be understood in good faith.
I feel like there’s some sort of rational middle ground between “one must swallow down ones disgusting vomit because manners” and “manners are made up garbage”.
Oooh, same-same! I remember being very small and going into somebody’s house on Halloween and eating some they’d put out for their houseguests. I mean, *I* was trick-or-treating, but I assume my parents must have known those people.
It’s one of my earliest memories. I can’t have been older than three, because when I was four I was in NYC already and that Halloween it rained and we had to trick-or-treat at the kitchen door.
Yum! In college the chemistry and physics majors would use the “Dippin’ Dots method” — mix up strawberries, cream, vanilla and sugar, then flash-freeze in the lab with liquid nitrogen. I never tried it but I heard it was heavenly.
Sour Patch Kids. I loved the sourness and I also loved eating all the sour sugar that was at the bottom of the bag. Second would be Butterfinger, but I think that was more “this is dad’s favorite snack so it’s mine too!”
Joyce is going to have a full meltdown, like overwhelmed, over stimulated.meltdown.
She seems to be constantly on the defensive with everyone, and everyone seems to be constantly on her ass she has.had multiple changes to her life really quickly that may seem small right now (glasses, getting the pill and autism refferal) on top of the big ones (learning how bad her mother is, the divorce prior in top of everything with beckysndad)
Joyce is not someone who handles change well at all, and maybe that is because of her possibly being on the spectrum, but this is a lot of change very quickly with everyone giving her shit and talking down to her.
This is going to culminate in a total meltdown i guarantee it
I really would like to see at least some of her friends ease up even just a little bit. Constantly being on the back foot is no way to live, and it Does Things to a person’s mind, especially at a young age.
Dang, if I had a nickel for every time someone tried to “why don’t you just” me into doing something unhelpful despite my repeated protests, I’d be able to buy… Well, in this economy, probably couple of sodas. But it would at least make a date slightly more pleasant.
“Well why don’t you just…”
“So just…”
“All you have to do is just…”
“It’s so easy all you have to do is just…”
“You think your problems are bad, you just have to worry about…”
I probably understand what you mean, but I’m still gonna tack on a quick “It’s 2022, girls have dicks now, too”, just for shits and giggles and without judgement of any sort.
See this is why Dina’s comment diminishing Joyce’s struggles yesterday annoyed me. Joyce struggles to eat certain foods. Pills are included in things she struggles with. She needs these particular pills in order to not end up bed ridden every month. It’s going to be an uphill battle everyday for Joyce to take this medication that must be taken at the same time every day. Dina knows all this.
She definitely did. She met Joyce when Joyce was coming from the doctor to class, and predicted that Joyce would react badly to taking…I believe “hussy pills” was the term she thought Joyce would use.
I mean, it wouldn’t be Dumbing of Age unless everyone was treating Joyce horribly and acting like her problems aren’t real and are somehow her own fault. You love to see it! Except you don’t, because it’s exhausting and awful and I honestly am starting to wonder why I even still read this comic. And before anyone starts rehashing yesterday, YES I KNOW A JOYCE WHO WAS IN TERRIBLE PAIN HAVING AN UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATION RIGHT AFTER BEING WOKEN UP SAID A MEAN THING TO DINA THIS MORNING WHILE THEY WERE TALKING PAST EACH OTHER. Doesn’t change that Becky is being a total scumbag just like she always is to basically everyone OR somehow make it fine for Dina to act like Joyce has no meaningful struggles with autism when she really obviously does, and honestly obviously has for years of this comic, if not the ENTIRE comic.
I feel bad for Joyce having so much food aversion. Not just because constantly getting crap for it must be annoying, but because…well, food is delicious. And eating a wide variety of dishes with different flavors from all around the world is, in my opinion, one of life’s great pleasures. I remember how glad I was the first time I had properly prepared Brussels sprouts as an adult- roasted with salt, pepper, and olive oil- and found out that they’re delicious when properly prepared. It was a good feeling.
Welcome to today’s episode of “All Of Joyce’s Friends Treat Her Like Garbage 99% Of the Time And We Can’t Tell If The Author Thinks This Is Fine Or Not.” This episode, everyone will be cruel to Joyce. Look forward to our next episode with Joyce in it, which will be about everyone being cruel to Joyce!
Seriously, it’s been a year since the Joyce/Becky fight. The slow burn of Joyce being kind of a butt sometimes and her closest friends crawling up her butt at all times has been a slog. I hope a trip to a life drawing class and maybe interacting with Malaya and Mary will shake things up.
It really does say something about what a long term, slow-burn conflict feels like with the pacing of this comic that we’re out here hoping for Mary screentime just for sheer novelty’s sake.
I mean, she hasn’t exploded into a “fuck you, fuck this, fuck it” rant like I probably would have at this point, so I think she’s dealing with it pretty well tbh.
Mostly by stuffing her own feelings in a box that’s already too full, which is something I hope she stops doing.
I can see Joyce and Becky have this kind of chat about pills even when they were 8. But I would like to understand what Dina think about this. Could Dina be jealous of Joyce?
I don’t like how Becky is treating this, but I think this is her tried and true method of getting Joyce to do things she doesn’t want to do. Egg her on until she loses it and does it to spite others if only so they stop egging her. Not saying it’s good, in fact it’s kinda shitty, but it’s her way of “helping”. While also being cranky that she’s atheist. Can’t wait til Dina figures that one out.
Now that makes sense. Becky is doing this because it works. It’s worked before. It’ll work again. And Joyce knows that she does this — it may be awful, but it’s different awful from a stranger being awful.
That said, this might be a good moment for Joyce to say “Becky, stop. Just stop. You’re making it hard for me to remember why I like you. Try something else.”
Liquid antibiotics… That stuff should be banned by the Geneva convention.
I used to get constant throat infections as a kid and had to chug that shit yearly. If you’re lucky enough to have never had it, picture the taste of bitter dry antibiotic pills…but in a thick white paste that slowly chugs it’s way down your throat. Ugh…
My parents literally had to do the Mary Poppins shit of shoving a spoon of straight sugar in my mouth as soon as I swallowed it just to make it bearable
Penicillin will kill me, so I got stuck with that chalky white stuff any time I had an ear infection (which was a lot). For the uninitiated, it was the consistency of the old Burger King shakes but it tasted like drywall compound. I never got sugar with it, I just chased it with a bunch of water.
At least I found that stuff more palatable than “cherry” and “grape” medicine. Artificial grape doesn’t taste like grapes, but cherry stuff ruined real cherries for me. The worst was “citrus” Triaminic. That stuff tasted like vomit.
Pepto-Bismol actually tastes pretty good, kind of minty. That’s basically the only liquid OTC medicine I bother with as an adult; pushing through the mental block to swallow pills was well worth the effort. No more grape shoe polish for me!
Saaaaaaaame! I don’t remember taking liquid medicine because I hated it so much, I begged for pills. Hated when mom busted open the capsules and put it on apple sauce though. Still can’t eat apple sauce from fear of med…
Ohhh i just remembered liquid Cataflam (life long migraines let’s goooo)
I could have shot gunned that shit it tasted so good. And it made my head stop feeling like it was splitting open. Even the pills i take now are sweet
My nighttime meds come to 5 pills and 2 capsules that I take mostly all at once, except for the one that has to dissolve under my tongue that goes last. but anyway 6 objects of various sizes that I put in my mouth and swallow all at once, sometimes dry when I can’t see to find the cup because I have to leave the light off and not wake my wife and I’m nightblind with the cataracts.
With Joyce’s food sensitivities, I completely get where she’s coming from. Growing up, I would try to swallow peas and corn whole because I hated chewing them. It took years to realize I wasn’t just picky for no reason, but that I had issues with textures. In addition to the auditory processing issues I’ve had growing up, certain food I couldn’t stand to touch my mouth because it just… felt bad. I don’t mind the taste of watermelon, the taste is pretty yummy, but the texture is so spongy that trying to chew and swallow it makes me wanna vomit. Also, I too have difficulties taking pills.
I’m afraid having difficulty swallowing pills is not something you grow out of if you still have it at 18. The good thing is that birth control pills are on the small side and not bad to start on.
One on my tricks to swallow bigger pills that I can normally: I put the pill in a spoon, I put a little bit of oil on it, I put everything in my mouth and then I take a swig of water. At first I was like this is a great idea, it will help me get used to it. Nope! Every time I try without oil, I can’t do it.
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I’d be wary about declaring what one can swallow
Somewhere, Joe’s ears just perked up like a dog’s and he doesn’t know why.
Joe: “I sense a great disturbance…
In my pants.”
And then he stands up and undoes his fly in the middle of a crowded diner, letting loose the squirrel that had been working its way up his pant leg.
He’s got some serious squirrels in his pants
Tony: Never touch me.
Honestly in this situation Tony would be the weird one for presuming he knows Joe well enough that it’s not weird for him to comment.
🤔 🥴 … 🤣
If she wasn’t making constant accidental and unaware innuendo, how would we even know it was Joyce?
This was pure gratuitous knife-twisting from Becky, and I’m honestly not sure I mind.
Last panel suggests it’s just banter dynamic.
Is it a bit topical? Yeah. Buuuut I can see friends in real life taking the mickey out of each other like this too.
Given that Becky is insulted by Joyce’s atheism, and is actively trying to pull Joyce back to Christianity (as some sort of fucked up coping mechanism, imo), it’s not friendly at all.
Becky might THINK it is. And I, for one, cannot wait for Becky to reach the Finding Out stage.
As an autistic who didn’t have the “oh shit it’s autism” learning curve about myself until I was quite a bit older than Joyce… I’ve experienced that a LOT. And I always hated it but I was also taught not to establish and reinforce my own boundaries and didn’t know that I could demand different treatment or walk away.
Joyce has rarely if ever seemed comfortable with Becky’s version of a “banter dynamic” and Becky has commented on multiple occasions that she loves making Joyce make a face that implies distress. If, between them, they don’t know that autism may well impact Joyce’s ability to know when behaviour is not okay AND her ability to ask it to be stopped, then they need to learn that soon- and the longer it takes the harder it is likely to hit them both when they realise how it’s affected things between them.
I’ve never liked how Becky pushes Joyce’s buttons for fun. And I don’t think Joyce does either.
I hope all of that makes sense, I just woke up.
According to a Twitter thread Willis deleted, Becky will learn what she’s doing wrong and hastily correct herself within the next few months IRL.
However, I don’t expect it to go all that smoothly.
That’s… interesting. But I’m not going to assume it’s true until it’s canon (just because things can change in writing and editing and I don’t like to assume things will happen until they do.) But should that come to pass… it likely wouldn’t be smooth, no, but it could be cathartically not-smooth. Like, my husband and I are both autistic and I’ve always tried to do what’s right for him… but we didn’t KNOW we were autistic or what autism really IS and I have to live with knowing what I thought was right at the time was not.
An arc of Becky learning that lesson and learning to live with it… that would be a good thing I think, if that’s the direction it goes. Both from my personal perspective as a reader but also for the characters.
i deleted a twitter thread, but that’s not remotely what the thread was about
Well, you did say you deleted it because “word of god-ing can get bad”, so I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how this all plays out…
nah that’s friends banters, it’s good
The two are not mutually exclusive. Definitely within their established dynamic (especially for Becky) but she’s doubling down hard on it.
Yes, it’s their established dynamic, and I’ve never liked it.
“It’s so cute and funny and entertaining how you jump when I stick needles in you.”
‘scuse me:
“jump and make faces when”
I’ve been hurt VERY badly by this dynamic in my own life by someone who insisted it was just friend banter LONG past the point it was clear it was bothering me and long past the point I asked them to knock it off.
So really, this isn’t changing my opinion of Becky at all, in that I still think she’s kind of a shitty boundary-breaking friend.
I think the important factor is whether Joyce likes it or not (and communicates that). If she enjoys this dynamic because it’s familiar and she thinks it’s a fun expression of knowledge and love, then it’s all good! If she makes a boundary — if she tells Becky “too far, please stop”, then Becky must stop — otherwise she will indeed be like your bad experience with your ex-friend. (I assume they’re your ex-friend, bc they sound terrible.)
Personally, I am a gentle soul who doesn’t usually enjoy that type of friend-banter. I like to be mainly supportive together — and when we do tease each other, we check in. But I know some pals really like it, so, different strokes.
…. although, as Dina once pointed out, Becky [and Joyce] were raised to believe that pleasure is evil and violence is love. And they weren’t allowed to have a lot of boundaries. So who the heck knows.
And that’s the problem. I think a lot of it she has long taken as just a friendly banter dynamic, and it’s been a thing from such a young age they’re never developed a practice of checking in, but now it’s grating on her and she’s got no idea how to set a boundary without blowing up about it. Which she will eventually.
And Becky’s leaning in harder than normal because of her own issues – in general and with Joyce over atheism.
Agreed. 😐
I’d say there is a difference between friendly teasing/banter and actually pushing someone’s buttons, taking things too far. Becky has demonstrated a regular habit of the latter and very little remorse. Whether this is the former or the latter case is up to Joyce, and the cues she’s demonstrating here seem to indicate the latter. It could go the other way in future strips, too early to tell without things like tone to give a better emotional read, but the body language, facial cues, and the way she’s phrasing her response suggest to me that she is genuinely bothered here, meaning Becky would be crossing the line if my read is correct.
At this rate, I fully expect Dina and Becky to break up the moment Joyce learns they had sex.
Huh?
Becky: “You promised you wouldn’t let her know!”
Dina: “I did not tell her.”
Joyce: “Becky, you rented a billboard!”
Becky: “DINA HOW COULD YOU D: D:”
“Becky has demonstrated a regular habit of the latter”
Has she, though?
I mean, I totally believe she’s doing so here, but the only other person I can remember her winding up like this is Dorothy, and as I’m sure everyone’s sick of me saying, Dorothy outright said that it didn’t bother her, and that she believed Becky was only really doing it because it didn’t bother her. Right up until it did, of course, at which point Becky’s reaction was immediately “How can I walk this back without admitting what I did was wrong or I regret it in any way?”
Which isn’t great, but isn’t “Whatever, let’s keep pushing” either.
I would be curious to see where Dorothy said it didn’t bother her. I remember her admitting that her coping strategy was patience until Becky grew out of it.
What actual reason does Becky have to do that? It seems to be working just fine for her so far… :p
But does Becky know she’s taking things too far? I get the feeling that, if the roles were reversed, Becky would not make much of it. That’s not where her pain is, I think.
I too would say that to excuse the way I was prodded in high school and university by certain friends of mine
I’m not friends with those people anymore
I avoid banter like the plague because at my high school, it was mainly used as a way of bullying that went under the teachers’ radar. About half the school population were pint-sized version of that @$$hoe who always goes “Nah, I’m funning you, mate, don’t take it seriously” when they totally mean it seriously.
Something we’ve seen a lot on the national stage of late. It’s always “just a joke, u mad, snowflake?” … until it’s not.
But when it’s their feelings that get hurt, it’s a national crisis.
When done well, between friends who know each other well and actually care and pay attention, it looks rough, but you can actually avoid any real vulnerable spots because you know where they are. And if you do land an unintentional hit, you can back off because you see the difference in reaction.
From outside though, that’s not visible.
What did Joyce ever do to deserve being treated this way?
Might not say that so loudly in public Joyce
Hold your nose and drink a lot of water. Good advice for both scenarios.
Yup. I learned to take pills by putting one just under my tongue, toward the front, filling my mouth with a big swig of water (or juice, or milk, or…), and then giving the pill a little poke with the tip of my tongue to toss it up into the water. Swallow the drink right away, and your throat never registers the sensation that you’ve washed down a pill along with it.
(It helped that some pills were candy coated or candy flavored.)
I got to the point where I don’t even need to involve my tongue at all anymore! I can swallow a dozen pills at once and never taste any of them! Although, I wouldn’t recommend taking pills with milk if taste is part of the issue, like it is with me, as whenever I did it with milk the flavor of the pills would suffuse the milk and make it all nasty before I could swallow it, especially with tablets, capsules don’t break down as quickly in regular fluids, but it’s still a bit of an issue. I don’t know if juice is better or worse than water, as I was never much of a juice drinker, even as a kid, so I don’t think I ever took pills with it.
I don’t know if it applies to birth control but some pills can be crushed before taking them. They used to do that for me when I was in the hospital and was too weak to swallow a pill. That could work well for Joyce.
Don’t crush your pills without asking your doctor first. Some pills will irritate or hurt your throat and make it harder to swallow. Also, some pills are designed to be slowly disolved in your stomach acids and you dont need the full dose right on your esofagus.
But my aunt who thinks her willow tree is the reincarnated spirit of Jesse Eisenberg said it was fine, so what do doctors know?
She may be right about that specific willow tree, but not about pills in general.
I was a sickly kid and learned how to swallow pills from about age 4.
Also I had to learn to deal with both theophylline syrup and liquid albuterol. About the only thing that tastes worse is uncoated prednisone.
Oh, also had hypertonic saline nebs a few times as a kid and even those aren’t as bad as theophylline. That shit is VILE.
(No, I don’t have CF, it’s just pediatric Type 1 brittle asthma treatment has a lot of overlap with CF treatment. Thankfully my asthma got less severe with age).
As an addendum: if you’re given an option, the extra $ for the coating is worth it on prednisone pills. Easier on your stomach and you don’t have to try to get the taste out of your mouth. Trust me, your taste buds will thank you.
I just pop it in my mouth and pour the water in myself. I could swallow it without water but sometimes it gets stuck so better to just have the extra assist.
I do it the other way around. Get enough liquid in my mouth that with my head tilted back a mess is definitely a potential outcome, drop the pill in, swallow it all, then drink some more immediately because I swear I can feel it sticking to the back of my throat every time.
…I need to try this!
This is the method I’ve settled on:
1. Take a swig of water.
2. Pop pill in mouth.
3. Hurry up and swallow before the pill starts to dissolve and you taste it.
The hardest part is pushing past the knowledge that you’re about to swallow something whole. Practice with Tic-Tacs, Altoids, or Mini M&Ms.
My life over the past year or so has basically been a journey of “for fucks sake that’s autism too?!” And I had one of those moments with regards to Joyce swallowing pills. I can do it now no problem but as a child I simply… couldn’t. And my parents couldn’t fathom this so of course I was being “difficult” on purpose.
I learned, but all I will say is that the way I learned is one I would very strenuously not advise.
I have a friend who has trouble swallowing pills and I’m gonna suggest the baby mm thing to her
My advice? Start smaller. When I insisted on teaching my younger niece, we followed a list that starts with *nerds*, carefully going from smallest to largest over a few days. THEN mini m&ms, then… iirc, the next one was tic tacs, followed by regular m&ms, then jelly belly jelly beans, then good and plenties, regular jelly beans, and… idk, I think the last one was maybe mike & ikes, but we didn’t bother at that point.
Our goal was to start and end every day with a win, even if that meant moving down to a smaller size than she’d done previously.
Also, for some pills, you can open the capsules and mix the meds inside into applesauce. Depends on the med.
Even for tablets, you can get a pill crusher and mix the resulting powder into apple sauce, or whatever else. With capsules, though, I’d consult a pharmacist first, as capsules can have a time delay that’s factored into the dosage, so just dumping the powder out can mess with the effectiveness. Granted, as a male I’ve never had to mess with birth control pills, so I dunno if that’s a factor there.
Indeed, part of the reason something is in a caple instead of pressed into a tablet is probably because they take longer to break down.
That only works for people who drink applesauce instead of eating it.
Also, as someone notes further down the page, it can have the undesired result of causing someone to associate “applesauce” with “medicine”, to the point where the former becomes just as unpalatable and inedible as the latter.
I struggled when I was younger until I stumbled upon realizing that I could do it if I dry swallowed. Any time I tried with a liquid, I’d drink and the pill would still be in my mouth. As to not scratch up the throat, some water right after is a good idea.
Aww.
Seriously suggest “large drink of water, hold it, drop pill in, swallow” method.
That one always made me choke.
I learned to take pills by swallowing grapes whole.
Also suggesting drink of water, hold in mouth, tilt head foreward and push between lips into water at the back of ur teeth if not more filled.
All these people who can’t swallow pills, I can down like five horse pills and a junior mint all at once.
Pills in mouth, get ’em floating good in a big envelope of water, swallow it all down in one big gulp. Done.
Yep. Just has to be dealt with, ultimately.
Oh I can take pills. I can swallow them dry (most of the time.) But there was a time when I was younger that I was taught how.
That’s what I shared.
I can swallow some pills dry but those big chalky ones get the water envelope because grit. I mean, fuck that.
You should never swallow pills dry. They’re made to be taken with liquid, and you can alter how they work in the body if you take them dry.
wait REALLY???
i dont do it often but jesus thank u for that info
I think it’s better to take them dry in a pinch than to skip them because you don’t have time or ready access to a liquid, but yeah, it’s best to always take them with liquid if at all possible.
It also probably shouldn’t be with any liquids that contain pharmacologically active ingredients, like alcohol, caffeine, cold medicine, or whatever. It can mess with the chemistry.
Or grapefruit juice.
“like alcohol, caffeine, cold medicine …”
O.O … Ooops.
Who’s chasing pills down with cold medicine, unless they’re lookin’ to get high on the cheap?
(Disclaimer: This post don’t endorse jackshit and y’all fuckin’ know that.)
I hear Old Jackshit is a pretty good brand.
I don’t prefer it, I just can if I need to for some reason.
Yes, they can also get stuck in your esophagus and start dissolving too early without the buffer of water around it.
Yeah, my method is head back with half-full mouth of water, drop the pill on top and swallow fast as possible. I’m pretty fine with capsules, but powdery pills are sensory hell, so sometimes I’ll stick them inside jelly or something.
In my experience, “the pill” is on the small-side, so it’s easier than most.
By “stick them in jelly” I do genuinely mean make a batch of jelly-shots in small icecube trays with a pill in each.
Works best if you get a bunch of empty capsules and put the powder pill in them so they don’t fuck up the flavour.
A lot of people on this thread have normal sized tonsils and therefore gag reflexes within a few standard deviations of the norm and it really shows here. They changed the generic brand of my birth control pills and it was a slightly less coated tablet and it stuck to my tonsils like 4/10 times I tried to swallow (after several years on the pill) and it was so miserable I had to get my doctor to write they couldn’t sub the brand and now I have to wait like 3 days after the refill request for them to order the right brand every time. All other pills must be in capsule form. I still don’t get them down all the time or my gag reflex gets going so bad I start dry heaving in between pills and feel sick to my stomach for several hours. Usually that’s when it’s bad allergy season and everything is swollen, but I’m also allergic to dust and mold which are around all the time soooo that’s fairly frequent.
Be thoroughly hydrated before taking pills and use a nasal spray regularly to reduce the swelling in the throat region. That’s my advice.
And yes, I should get my tonsils out, but I grew up in the (apparently relatively brief) era when they weren’t taking them out unless it was “absolutely necessary” and as an adult I have never had a job where I could get away with not being able to speak for a week or more. And surgeries are expensive.
Aw, I missed Becky blowing a kiss to Dina yesterday! (Yesterday on patreon)
Joyce was infantilized just now.
She and Dina just gained something in common.
Joyce has been infantalized since she came to college and arguably was her entire life at Fundieworld.
Becky’s “baby M&Ms” comment came off to me like she was implying that potentially-autistic Joyce was like a small child who can’t do anything by herself.
It sounded just as ableist as calling Dina a “robot girl.”
She got the product name wrong. They’re “M&M’s Minis“, and just a smaller version of regular M&M’s. Here’s a size comparison I stole off Reddit. Notice how the “Mega” M&M has a smaller “m” than the regular one to make it look even bigger than it actually is.
I think she just suggested them because they’re tiny and easy to swallow.
But Becky also said that was how to teach “small kids” how to swallow pills.
I agree with the other person – it’s not the part with the advice, it’s the part where she says it’s about teaching little kids. Joyce isn’t a little kid, nor is she acting like one. She’s a young adult with a common problem.
The problem isn’t that Joyce and Dina don’t have anything in common. It’s that both have already decided what to think of the other. Ironically a trait they have in common keeps them from getting along.
Tbf, Joyce just tried to find common ground with Dina and Dina decided to shut her down
I mean she literally opened with “this was someone else’s idea.”
Yeah, but you can read that as “please don’t be offended that I’m coming to you for autistic advice” which is an understandable opener considering Dina’s reaction to Joyce potentially getting a diagnosis…
i’m not sure if becky would ‘back off’ if joyce really insisted, but i don’t think she considers it infantalizing versus “teasing my uptight best friend” b/c that’s apparently been their dynamic since childhood
but i assume becky’s not as purposefully assholeish enough to ‘double down’ on treating her that way
(also seems like a waste of m&ms if you can’t even enoy the chocolate taste you’ll only be gaining the empty calories/pounds haha)
It’s kind of fascinating that Joyce kind of pushes every one of Dina’s buttons. Dina hates religious fundamentalists and ignorance and hasn’t adapted to the fact that Joyce is no longer one as well as curious. She doesn’t believe Joyce was in an abusive home because she’s come to the conclusion that Becky has but doesn’t apply it to Joyce. Also, she thinks Joyce is a bigot against her because of the robot girl comment — which, fair, is a abelist slur — while interrogating Joyce about child abuse while she’s suffering severe cramps and after asking her to leave. Then Joyce gets the diagnosis that Dina has been wanting but got racistly told was her not speaking English well.
And Joyce doesn’t KNOW any better so she keeps pushing all of Dina’s buttons.
Does Dina not believe Joyce was in an abusive home? I don’t think that’s the case. I think she might think it wasn’t as bad for Joyce as for Becky, because Joyce said that, but that’s not the same as not thinking it was abusive.
She might have a coloured view of it because of Becky’s stories about Joyce.
I think that was the entire point of her invading Joyce’s space.
The thing Joyce used to do all the time so Dina has no reason to think she’d have an issue with it?
To be fair to.joyce she only did that with Sarah and Becky.. maaaaaybe Dorothy? It was only a small small number she was really close to.
She definitely did it with AT LEAST Sal as well. Until she found out that Sal’s reflex response to waking up to someone looming over her was “grab neck, squeeze”.
That’s not actually why she stopped. She actually figured out that most people didn’t like to be woken up that way.
Which Becky didn’t seem to get – which also probably plays into why Dina did it to Joyce. She was following Becky’s lead on something Joyce had stopped doing.
I mean, she certainly IMPLIES that’s why she stopped doing it to Sal.
“I feel there’s an important reason I don’t wake Sal up like this anymore.” implies she still wakes other people like this, and that the reason she stopped waking Sal up like this is that breathing is actually important.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/wakeupcall/
While she was still doing it.
Here’s where she actually stops. The development that led to that is spread out, but it’s clear to me it’s not as simple as “breathing is actually important” and also that Becky doesn’t get it and hasn’t changed.
She was definantely horrified when joyce mentioned she got spanked when she misbehaved
I think coming to the realisation that a home was abusive instead of “just shit” (younger me’s words) is potentially a slow one and expressing it clearly to others isn’t immediate. Plus if someone sees something as entirely normal they’re going to talk as such, NOT talk about it as abuse, and a lot of it won’t come out because to them- it’s normal. (See Dina interrogating Joyce and it coming out that she was struck as a form of “discipline”.)
My point here is- has Joyce learned to say, even to herself, “my upbringing was abusive? Has Becky? Has Dorothy, Sarah, Joe? “It’s fucked up”, I can see, but “it’s abuse”? And I’m neither sure that they haven’t come to that conclusion (although I don’t believe anyone has), nor looking down on a teenager for not yet having the life experience to look at a bunch of red flags and realising they add up to abuse, not just to an unusual colour scheme.
She absolutely has not. See her recent conversation with Dina about the wooden spoon, and how badly she reacted when Sarah implied that Joyce was traumatized by her childhood. She’s fine! She’s totally fine! Her upbringing was normal! She’s willing to call her *religion* a cult, which is amazing strides, and we know she’s not on speaking terms with her mother, but she’s still in the shallows of confronting the full spectrum of how damaging her upbringing was with regards to her family itself, and parents specifically.
The fact that she’s still trying to make it work with her dad probably complicates that, because obviously he was complicit in the choices he and Carol made, but I bet Joyce wants to cling to the idea that he was a good father at this moment in time where she’s having to admit that her mother is not and possibly never was a good mother. I like Hank; he’s trying to improve himself and seems to be making strides there, and I place a very, very high value on that quality—but he *also* made choices that harmed his daughter a lot, and she’s going to have to recognize that eventually, even if she chooses to forgive him for them.
Poor Joyce. She is really going through it, and she’s gonna be going through it for a long, long time. This shit can take years to work through, even a whole lifetime, and she’s only a few months in.
I agree with you.
And I really wish we’d all take a break from the constant approach of judging which character is the most right/wrong at a given moment, because this comic isn’t a morality play or an AITA. This entire comic is more a portrait piece of all the characters. Mix ’em up, put em together, add a generous heaping of trauma, and see what they’ll do. It isn’t about who will be most right, it matters more that they’ll be interesting as they change and fail and grow.
A little detached fascination might be a good thing for me right now. Portrait piece.
I hate how much this comments section just…destroys the ability to appreciate the complexity of the actual character interactions and the overall narrative. Yeah yeah it’s my own fault, I should just stay away…but it’s the only place there is to talk about, you know, the actual character interactions and the overall narrative in the actual comic strip!
I think that’s just the nature of a character based story. Everyone has a favorite and inevitably chooses a side. I think comments are less of critique of individuals as they are a response to the moment itself. I don’t think it ruins the narrative because tomorrow the story moves on regardless of what we think.
You could try the discord group. https://discord.gg/nTW5SapJ I haven’t been on in a million years, but they may have a dynamic more to your liking.
Just a heads up, these guys tend to be overly critical of Willis for its own sake, goes too far in the other direction if you ask me 😗
Fans, eh? Gotta love ’em.
Yeah no that sounds way worse than this.
Sometimes I think readers bring all their baggage to this strip but forget to pack their sense of humor.
Another comment that demonstrates the need for an upvote system. I think my sense of humor was permanently damaged sometime during the Voldemort administration.
That encapsulates it perfectly.
Yeah, the overthinking that goes on here is really something at times. Reading the strip is essentially like watching a TV drama in 2-minute intervals—judging every single character within each 2-minute snapshot just gets to be a bit much.
I agree with your post, but I want to point out, because it’s a common misunderstanding I’ve seen a bunch now, that Joyce hasn’t actually been diagnosed yet, she’s got a referral to see a specialist to maybe get diagnosed
Yeah, an optometrist or gynecologist or whichever was the one who mentioned it to her is definitely not qualified to make that diagnosis. IIRC from when I was diagnosed as a kid, you need to see a specialist for a preliminary diagnosis, who then kicks you up the chain to a panel of specialists who evaluate you individually and together, and then deliberate before coming to a consensus, and even then they still ask you to come back in a year to re-evaluate just to be sure.
Joyce was informally diagnosed by the gynecologist who had an autistic child showing many of the same symptoms as Joyce, which triggered her Sesame Street senses (the opposite of the “One of these things” song). A parent of a ND child will pick up a ND adult much quicker than even a trained professional. Source: I’m a parent of 2 ND children out of 3.
Right. That’s the other thing that’s kind of annoying about how this comment section seems to work. Joyce got a *suggestion* that she might maybe be autistic, what, 48 hours ago? There’s always this wall of text about which people In Joyce’s circle are handling her “diagnosis” the right way every time it comes up and she doesn’t even have one yet.
Theoretically true, but narratively speaking that was her diagnosis. Unless we time skip again, it would be years of real time before she even sees the specialist and probably well past the end of the strip before she’s formally diagnosed.
Nor is Willis going to run with a wacky misunderstanding on something like this.
Yeah. It hasn’t been officially confirmed in-universe yet, but… really, c’mon. Something like that doesn’t get brought up/tossed out in a work like this unless the answer is “yes”, and IMO there’s plenty of evidence for it, past and present.
I agree, but while I think someone getting officially diagnosed by a professional as autistic is generally a good thing, it doesn’t mean they weren’t already autistic before they were diagnosed. And since an official diagnosis costs a lot of money in some places (America with its fucked-up healthcare system for example), and there are plenty of professionals who hold outdated ideas about autism, it’s not as easy to get diagnosed as some people might think.
I’m not entirely sure where I was going with this, but given the difficulty of getting diagnosed in some parts of the world, I definitely feel like identifying a character like Joyce and/or Dina as autistic despite them not yet being formally diagnosed is valid, and the same when people in real life suspect they’re autistic without yet being officially diagnosed by a professional.
I’m pretty super certain that Becky has NOT revealed her plan to re-convert Joyce to Dina.
That’s going to….. be a whole thing.
Dina has an entire character arc coming up, methinks.
Frankly I’m not convinced anyone’s even told Dina Joyce is no longer Christian
I, for one, am excited for it.
I don’t think it’s an actual plan for Becky.
Panel two Joyce is mood.
I know, right?
I’m with Dina on this one. I always just went without. That’s part of why I was such a skinny kid.
Dina: I don’t want to talk to you about your autism [blah etc etc]
Dina, immediately inserting herself into a conversation after she walked away from Joyce???
honestly this is just slowly shifting my lens as Dina having a desire to feel superior to Joyce in some way. (her suffering is more real, she would simply say no to something, etc etc.)
Honestly I’m getting kind of burnt out on this comic. Joyce has been shown time and time again to at least try to be her best self. The second she’s no longer put into a specific box everyone treats her worse and the narrative itself seems to bend to punish her for things.
Like. Her life has just been trauma for the past 6 months or so. I don’t know how much more of people picking on Joyce’s neuroses and things that upset her or are clearly not things she’s equipped to handle I can feasibly read before I just drop it.
I get the feeling this is all a slow-burn setup for Joyce to turn to Joe when everyone else fails her…but GODDAMN is it a slow burn. This pacing is agony. How long has this in-comic week of “every single character except Joe is judging Joyce to her face” lasted outside of comic? 6 months? 9?
It is EXHAUSTING to be living in this dynamic for so long. Time skip, please, for goodness’ sake
It’s been 5 days in-universe since “Sister, Christian” and the start of Joyce’s conflict with her friends.
It’s been an entire year out-of-comic for us.
That means that we are experiencing these events 73 times slower than they are happening.
I don’t think time-skipping over the conflict would help, but I would love for it to take a back seat to other conflicts for a bit just to shake things up. Like the whole “Raidah recruiting Jennifer into her friend group” deal. I wanna see how that’s going. That’s probably why I liked the Halloween flashback – nice change of pace.
It’s a a large cast of characters with several arcs with 4 to 6 panels so yes the comic will naturally be a slow burn but at least Willis stays focused and gives characters time to develop. Not an easy task and its one of the reasons I have stayed with this comic for a decade.
Jennifer has also not been judgy. J’s gotta stick together, I guess.
I’m more burnt out on some of the comments section, honestly. Still waiting to see where the comic goes with this storyline (these storylines?) before deciding whether to keep reading or not, but yesterday’s comments section was a doozy.
*Dina voice* i would simply not read the comments
When Dina says stuff like that I don’t think she means it as inserting herself. There’s a guy in one of our groups who responds to things with technically related, but not actually related, things. Like we’ll be talking about something, and share a comic about it, and he’ll share another comic by the same artist but with a different topic, and not understand why he didn’t get a positive reaction. He’s just trying to relate but not quite getting it right, and that’s what Dina did here.
She just turned down joyce’s offer to relate and told her they weren’t the same.
Why is she trying to relate?
She’s making conversation.
She might not like Joyce but they both care about Becky.
Joyce is in the uncomfortable place that she has decided she hates her past self and everything she was.
And this immediately puts her at odds with the people who loved her past self even if they teased her.
Hey yeah the comments yesterday were pretty intense, and I just realized something — animosity spent here is animosity that COULD be going to those who really deserve it — im talking of course about Autism Speaks. 😡
Autism Speaks does indeed suck a fat one. They’re the exact kind of “people” who I only call “people” out of societal obligation. Because apparently it’s like, uncool to dehumanise someone even if they literally want you dead just for being born different and go out of their way to try and make that happen. Cuz something something transitive property, “if you’ll do it to them, you’ll necessarily do it to anyone”, or whatever.
Yeah no, they don’t get to be people. Fuck it.
AS is so masks off that it’s surprising anyone supports them.
If anything, the level of transparency is what draws the support to them. “We literally want to exterminate People Like You” is a lot more appealing to other homicidal bigots than “Hey, kindly refrain from turning us into spaghetti sauce”. They just want death and will flock to whatever banner lets them have it.
Basically (and this is the last I’ll say about that gaggle of freaks tonight), if some bloodthirsty group of terrorists is gonna declare me their enemy just for being born, they deserve any and all levels of retaliation, because it’s straight up a matter of survival.
They hide behind doe-eyed, pouty concern! How could they PoSsIbLy be bad?
Bleh. Fuck the puzzle piece organization.
I think the main reason a lot of people support them is because they’ve gotten way too much good PR in the past, and a lot of people are far too trusting that of charity organizations and don’t want to believe that some of them might be bad. That, and unfortunately there are plenty of neurotypical parents of autistic children who relate to the fucked up views that A$ promotes.
My rule of thumb is that if someone doesn’t consider me to be a person, I’m not going to bother considering them a person either. Sick and tired of existing at a nexus of multiple groups of people wanting to genocide people like me for totally different reasons. Just one is bad enough. Several is something I’m not sure I can handle much longer.
Dina told Joyce she doesn’t want to have a serious conversation about a subject that brings up a lot of resentment and complicated feelings for her just because Joyce is curious.
That doesn’t mean she’s no longer allowed to talk to Joyce at all.
Might just be me, but I read it as Dina interjecting and Joyce completely no-selling it to finish her thought to Becky.
In panel 1, Becky starts off trying to be discreet and then just, like, keeps going.
Maybe Dina’s rubbing off on her.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/awesome-2/
(More like rubbing off *to* her heyo, okay I got that out of the way.)
God why is Joyce me when it comes to food idiosyncrasies.
Sympathies, ARFID and stuff like it SUCKS, and the fact that a lot of people just… don’t understand it, or even try to, only makes it worse.
What bugs me is the bizarro food aversion gatekeeping. Like, so many people are just weirdly invested in this arbitrary divide between “THIS person REALLY has food aversions but all those OTHER people are just acting like CHILDREN” like why do they even care? Since when do they have a say in what other people do or don’t eat?
People really do care way too much about shit that doesn’t affect them on even a wide-scale domino sort of level. It’s all just so fucking masturbatory, some folks can’t go ten seconds without shitting their literally-useless opinions on everyone’s faces.
Either that’s a mixed metaphor or you and I masturbate very differently.
Yeah, that one got away from me a little bit. Not really sure where I was going.
To the bathroom, one should hope 😛
Thanks, that got a chuckle out of me.
Oh, hey, yay, we’re back at the “everyone treating Joyce like a baby about her birth control the second they see her” plotline. My favorite. /s
*checks the tumblr preview panels to see how long until the storyline is over*
Man, I was so hype about yesterday’s comic and all the fun new character dynamics it proposed and then today’s comic hit and I was reminded that we’re stilled getting dragged through my current least favorite character dynamic at the pace of a snail on Nyquil.
That’s not to say that it’s poorly written or anything, Willis is still a phenomenal character writer with a real knack for sharp, compact dialogue. It’s just kind of the inevitability of Webcomic Time.
We now return to our regularly-scheduled broadcast. Up next is a perennial favorite, Joyce gets beaten over the head with a fucking hammer, now in the midst of its twelfth season.
You say using a fucking hammer to beat someone’s head and then broadcasting it is a thing?
Kids nowadays.
yeah, that’s just loony
Hmmm, barfing 75% of the time in strange food situations. Yep, sounds like “you eat chicken fingers and smile too much” to me!
Dina as usual has the right idea!
Also, seeing as her birthday is coming up, I’m gonna make her a present!
Stay tuned! 😉
BTW, congratulations on being named the Champ, in Willis’s Twitter!
While I admire the direct simplicity of Dina’s approach, it’s not without its cost.
Whose birthday is coming up?
Didn’t Dina have her birthday with Sara last semester?
Or you referring to someone else?
Dina’s birthday is on Oct 18th.
Interestingly enough, that’s also the anniversary of when I started reading DoA! 😃
Honestly, I’m extremely skeptical Joyce’s uterus actually IS all that functional. The pills wouldn’t necessarily be stopping it so much as bringing it in line.
Like, it could be endometriosis or it could be PCOS or something and everyone else assumes her periods are normal when they’re not killer and actually she’s only getting them every three months (and when they come they are killer.) The latter tends to be “Oh hey, I’m bleeding once a month at a straightforward time with normal, sane amounts of cramping.” The former can also be fairly irregular. And uh, either one can potentially have implications for longterm fertility, particularly if left untreated. I don’t expect Becky to know this, but uh. Good news, Joyce! What it’s actually doing is likely to be slightly more complicated but ultimately probably helpful if you want to have kids someday.)
(God I cannot imagine Joyce reacting well to the idea of getting pregnant herself if she actually thinks about how gestation works. But we’ll get there when we get there. I suspect/hope we will someday get to her considering it in an abstract way but actually thinking through it, though, because the face that will ensue will be legendary.)
There’s about a dozen whole comics about it!
https://itspregnancy.tumblr.com/post/130927690441
I’m trans-masc and started testosterone in my early twenties and for about five years prior I’d used birth control to manage my periods. But as a teenager? Mine were horrific. And I was basically just treated as making a big deal over nothing. And being autistic I just pushed through when I should have turned to someone and kept asking for help because I believed them and what could be worse than making a big deal out of things?
My point being, people treating a teenage girl’s broken periods and clear signs of something being Medically Up With This as not a big deal is definitely a thing that exists. So I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if that was the case.
So Becky went from “we can’t offer Joyce treatment because she gonna melt down” to “how are your anti-children drugs”?
No, no, Becky was always stuck in Post-Traumatic Limbo.
I mean Becky for all people should know how delicate subject it is to Joyce and I bet that if it wasn’t for the distraction of the problem with swallowing pills Joyce would have had a “not a hussy” attack
A tip for anyone who is saying they can swallow pills no problem all at once, please do drink water when you do! Some pills can easily burn/damage the esophagus if this is repeated a lot
also get out of her butthole Becky
Learned and learned from my meds. It’s the WORST.
And food when they say with food! Otherwise you will end up nauseous and heart-burny.
Husband recently had to have high-strength (for the UK, it’s a thing) pain meds for a back issue. He started taking them and felt sick afterwards, so he was also prescribed something to help with his tummy.
When we got home I looked at the box and was like “okay, so what food did you take it with?” Then I had to be Strict Husband and say that no, a small snack is not enough, if it says to take with food we’ll have an actual meal.
Oddly, he didn’t have a tummy issue after that.
(I blame autistic literalism and not having learned it the hard way because I have done the EXACT same thing in the past. But it does just say “with food”! A slice of toast is food! Can’t they clarify how much food is a minimum?! Like, “at least a small meal”? Or have a guide and the labels refer you to it? Or SOMETHING?! Because if you haven’t learned the hard way “with food” is not helpful! Rant done.)
a (single) crisp is “food”, that should totally count! :p
Yes, well, you see, Dina, that some of us weren’t given the option of simply refusing. Some of us had the “option” of refusing but only with a hidden stigma and punishment attached to it.
Anyway I was going to guess what Joyce may have endured but whoops that awoke some memories so I’ll stop there. (not too bad but decidedly not fun)
Yeah. Same.
Yeeeep. I definitely remember being punished for not eating things, though my parents fortunately stopped doing that as I got older.
My sister and I were allowed one thing to refuse to eat. Not per meal, at all. We could change it if we wanted, but only after trying whatever new thing we didn’t like at least once. I don’t want to say it sidestepped this issue (and I’m ignoring food allergies and such because my folks were both highly sensitive to medical issues) but it did give us space to have SOME control of our diet while keeping us from just eating chicken nuggets and french fries. It also didn’t keep the ingredient from appearing at the table, so it did mean that we usually had a chance to give it another try along the way.
For those curious, mine was snap peas until I was introduced to Zucchini. Neither ever redeemed themselves to my palette, but I did learn to accept Zucchini as an ingredient in larger recipes (though I still avoid it served on its own).
Well zucchini is ass served on its own so you’ve got the right idea there
I will literally throw up if I eat zucchini.
Even breaded and deep fried, or roasted in spears and dipped in a spicy mayo sauce?
I mean, most people who do not have serious food aversions will still manage to eat things other than just chicken nuggets and french fries, even as children, so long as the parents serve those other things to them. It’s not like that “only one dislike” rule is what prevented you from living off of two foods.
Mine is mushrooms. They look disgusting when they grow outside, and they’re nasty little slices of dirt on food.
It must be a texture thing, because I can’t eat steamed clams either. They’re slimy little things that just taste like the salty sand they’re extracted from. (Clam cakes are amazing, though.)
I almost want this to turn into a confrontation about the specific fact that when Joyce called Dina a robot what she *meant* was that she assumed Dina has never tried refusing something her parents or another adult ordered her to do which would (in Joyce’s mind) naturally result in getting beaten for it.
THANK YOU for being like one of the few people in the comments who even seemed to comprehend what was happening in that strip. Joyce and Dina were deeply misunderstanding each other and that kinda matters a lot. I’m sick of the “Well Joyce said something horrible to Dina today” argument popping up everywhere without even acknowledging that this was Dina misunderstanding what Joyce meant, which isn’t Dina’s fault, but is radically different than “Joyce just chose to say something horrible to Dina because… reasons.”
The thing that gets lost here is:
Regardless of INTENT, the IMPACT was that Dina experienced bigotry from someone in her social circle and it upset her.
Dina is allowed to feel as if Joyce said something mean to her (because she did, whether she meant to or not), and Joyce is allowed to feel like people are up her ass about the pills and other things (because they are, whether they mean to be or not).
Sometimes we have to apologise for the impact of our actions regardless of our intent.
True. OTOH sometimes one is blinded by one’s intent. Sometimes it is helpful for the one impacted to choose to ride the adrenalin and say, with icy calm (so much as possible), “that hurt me. Why did you say that?”
That’s absolutely true, but from outside it’s still useful to dissect intent, so we can see where the characters are coming from.
Just focusing on “Joyce called Dina a ‘robot girl'” might capture the impact on Dina, which is important, but it doesn’t tell us anything about why Joyce said that, which can tell us more about Joyce as a character, which is also important.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Joyce forcing down food at other people’s houses may be related to her getting less spankings with a wooden spoon for being “difficult.”. Yaknow, socially unacceptable and/or embarrassing to her parents in their community behaviors so she also preemptively corrects other behaviors but would rather avoid if she can.
Some of us weren’t given the option without suffering punishment, and decided the punishment was worth it. And on at least one occasion, made things worse by abandoning their ‘dinner’, taking the dog’s bowl, plopping it down on the table, and proceeding to eat that, to make the point that even that garbage was better than being subjected to baked beans and cornbread. Again.
Y’know. Hypothetically speaking. I certainly don’t know anybody who would find such a way to tell their parents to fuck off without actually saying the words. Nope.
Also, on an unrelated note: Dry dog food? Not that bad. Honestly just super duper bland.
Y’know. I hear. >.>
My parents were the “you will sit at the table until you finish” type. Which, as someone with the food issues of autism and the finding understimulation genuinely traumatising of ADHD… that was a nightmare. I physically couldn’t make myself eat it, but sitting there doing nothing was- it was torturous. Genuinely.
All it resulted in was me getting good at learning how to dispose of my food without getting caught, and having a deep sense of guilt and shame over not being able to finish or even start eating food to this day. When my brain says it can’t eat something it just can’t. Thankfully my husband is wonderfully supportive… and doesn’t have food issues and will finish my dinner for me.
I relate to a lot of Joyce’s food hangups, but strangely I don’t remember ever having trouble with pills. I definitely remember trying really hard to not taste certain things, though. Unfortunately the smell itself tended to trigger my gag reflex. I definitely remember my parents accusing me of faking it and threatening to spank me, though they quit doing that as I got older and these days I basically just do what Dina talks about in the last panel. (To be very clear, I’ve never actually been diagnosed, but I have family who have been and I’ve suspected I might be autistic for a while.)
Same for me.
Collard greens always made me nauseous.
I remember my parents trying to feed me with my eyes closed and telling one bite was meatloaf and the other bite was greens (like I can’t smell, taste, and FEEL the difference).
And then when I threw up later, they said I made myself do it.
They eventually gave up.
I also remember not liking cabbage, but it was only after my dad beat me because my grandma complained I wouldn’t eat it that I remember cabbage making me nauseous, too.
More than 30 years later, and I still get nauseous.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
I can relate.
Appreciate it. Thanks.
If I ever do have kids (not likely but I’m holding on to hope), it’s not something I plan on imitating.
Collard greens and cabbage are both the same plant. Is it possible that you are allergic to this plant?
This guy, this guy right here:
https://www.gocomics.com/baldo/2022/10/11
He has the right idea.
Was also threatened, and heard/seen the spanking happen to my siblings. I was the youngest so I was spared for the most part (I’m certain it’s happened before, but they’re telling me it didn’t). I was just force fed stuff I hated while I was crying lol
I don’t *think* Becky’s trying to be a humongous honking asshole to her childhood friend right here, but if that’s was what she intended to do, I’m not sure what she’d be doing differently.
That’s what friendship is to Becky: being a humongous honking asshole. None of this affection or support nonsense, just mocking neuroses and advertising embarrassing things and verbal digs 24/7.
(Seriously, when was the last time Becky was actually nice to/about Joyce unprompted? I honestly don’t remember.)
Becky likes to talk about the things that happened to her in a way that leaves out any of the actual religion. Joyce talks about being in a cult. Becky doesn’t.
The one time that Joyce called her out on it, she made a plan to re-convert her.
Becky gets to be a humongous honking asshole, and Joyce just has to take it. Joyce can’t hit back or else she’s being cruel.
That’s friendship, to Becky.
There was a point, earlier in the comic, when Becky first showed up, when the unbalanced nature of their friendship bothered me less—the dynamic where Joyce priorities Becky’s needs and wants very, very highly, above her own, and Becky ALSO prioritizes Becky’s needs and wants very, very highly, above Joyce’s own. When Becky showed up on Joyce’s doorstep, her life had completely fallen apart because she’d been accidentally outed, and she was homeless, in physical danger from her father, and understandably in a *lot* of emotional distress. Joyce 100% stepped up to help Becky and keep her safe, examined and discarded her homophobia, and eventually even her own faith—the same faith that put Becky in so much distress and danger in the first place. Joyce did pretty much everything right, and she was a great friend to someone who desperately needed it.
But things have changed a LOT since then; Becky’s life has gotten considerably *more* stable (thanks in part to Joyce’s unflagging support! Like, yeah, Hank was the one who opened a joint checking account with Becky to give her more financial support, but do we think that would have happened if Joyce’s reaction to finding out Becky was gay was to cut her loose? Hank has not made a secret of the fact that Joyce’s moral courage and insistence on claiming Becky as family has inspired him to make changes in his life), at the same time that Joyce’s life has become LESS stable (thanks in part to Joyce’s unflagging support of Becky! The loss of her faith, her parents’ divorce, her estrangement from her mother and at least one of her siblings—all of this is heavily tied to the drama surrounding Becky and her father, and where in all that mess Joyce chose to plant herself and refuse to move. None of it is Becky’s fault, but nevertheless, those things are very much connected). And despite this, despite the fact that Joyce is really, really struggling *herself*, now, the Becky/Joyce dynamic is still incredibly unbalanced in favor of Becky’s needs and wants, including very unfair, unhealthy, unsustainable desires like “my friend never changing unless it’s in a way that specifically benefits me”. Worse yet, the rest of Joyce’s friends’ circle has so thoroughly bought into this Becky-over-all prioritization that Joyce asserting her own desires against Becky’s even a little bit earns her lectures on how she’s being a selfish asshole or a child.
It’s really depressing, and it’s unhealthy, and it’s why I wish they’d take a break on their friendship for awhile, and do some growing as individuals.
all of thiiiiiiis.
What was Dina just saying about being infantalized?
“Fine for thee, not for me?”
No, not even that; excusing or justifying it would require acknowledging that it happens to Joyce also/in the first place.
It’s too obvious, this has gotta be intentional.
Whether or not the characters will notice is frustratingly uncertain.
Still holding out for Joyce flipping her lid about Becky mocking her, and Dina watching it happen and going “ohhhhh, okay, maybe she actually can sympathize”. It’s an unrealistic hope but I hope anyway.
Hm. I feel like this could go one of two ways, either Dina picks up on the infantilization due to her life time of experience with it, or she misses it because it’s so normalized to her and she’s used to more overt/aggressive displays of it.
…I wonder if we’ll get a Dina/Becky conflict if Becky refuses to stop infantilizing Joyce and take her feelings seriously. And if this is coupled with Dina learning Becky is trying to and reconvert Joyce? Phew. That could be a minefield.
Does Dina even know Joyce is an atheist now?? I’m not certain she does. Becky probs wouldn’t have told her.
There’s a third way I can see
She picks up on it, but her biases both for Becky and against Joyce lead her to decide it doesn’t really count
Quite possible.
Autism does not actually/necessarily make one more objective and rational than NTs.
And right on cue Becky demonstrates that Joyce isn’t actually getting a joyful autistic experience
Is any autistic experience “joyful”, really? I swear, life never gets any easier for us. 😓
I dunno, the parts that don’t involve shithead bigots and “well-meaning” dipshits are usually alright, at least for me. I love being able to near- perfectly recall old cartoons I watched a few times as a kid, down to every character’s exact inflections, as one example. I’ve met plenty of allistics who can barely remember a quote they heard literally five seconds before they tried to repeat it, and that’s just normal for them.
That part about old cartoons, me too. I used to do the same with cartoons like Magic Schoolbus and Grossology, it’s how I developed my incredible passion for science! 🥰
I haven’t felt the spark for it in so long. It’s like, what would happen if Dina went through trauma that beat that out of her and turned her into Maleficent? That’s basically me, I feel like a shadow of my former self. 😔
I feel you both in this regard, there’s such joy in being autistic but lately mine has also been a struggle
Still, a big part of it is recognising the self and your needs and then hopefully avoiding the bigots
I’ve always loved The Magic School Bus, wellerman! <3 But yeah, also been feeling kinda sparkless 🙁
I feel like my memory is a lot better with childhood favorites than something like what did I have for lunch yesterday. Also been diagnosed with ASD, though perhaps I'm more generically neurodivergent with a mix of being bad at adulting / avoidance tendencies. I think like half of my dad's side of the family is probably neurodivergent, tbh.
Being autistic doesn’t make your life inherently worse or better. How you respond to it does.
How other people respond to it matters more. We’re not the ones traumatising ourselves, after all.
We’re never going to change those people, so it’s no use letting them live rent free in our heads.
Okay, so we ignore them and they kill us without resistance. That’s the reality. The term “living rent free” does not apply when a group is actively attempting to eliminate you.
Taffy, I never said that. Please do not twist my words or otherwise try to strawman the conversation. I am fully aware of how shitty the world is for the disabled and the different. I am fully aware of how shitty it is for me. I had a federal judge tell me I was fit to pick fruit.
I am simply stating that simply BEING autistic does not make someone less invalid than anyone else, but assuming it DOES will affect your mental health.
I’m not trying to “strawman” anything. What you said came across exactly the same as all the platitudes autistic people get force-fed constantly, and that’s what I was pushing back against. If that’s not how you meant it, then I apologise for the misunderstanding. I’d rather not fight someone who’s not actually my enemy, anyhow.
Yeah no, violent bigots aren’t gonna play by kindergarten bully rules and just stop if you ignore them. Don’t downplay people’s lives trauma with internet catchphrases.
Okay.
I apologize if it came off that way.
But I also expect people to not assume that I’m saying “lay down and let fascism kill you”.
Bryy, I say this as tactfully as I can manage: Do you tell queer people not to let homophobic people live in their heads rent free when they point out that violent homophobes exist and are the source of most of queer suffering?
Because you just did the exact equivalent to autistic people.
People are angry with you because in response to pointing out the reality of our oppression, you responded with toxic positivity and minimization.
In response to people pushing back, you turn around and play the victim by pretending people are accusing you of telling us to lie down and die. That is not what anyone has accused you of. They are accusing you of minimizing and victim blaming autistic people for the results of said oppression by accusing trauma survivors of “letting” those who traumatized us live in our heads rent free.
Taffy was pointing out that when a dedicated hate group is trying to eliminate you and people like you, ignoring them doesn’t work.
You then moved the goalposts about what you said. However, moving the goalposts does not work as this is a message board with permanent comments history. I need only look up a couple posts to see your comment wasn’t at all about validity and was about insinuating that trauma survivors are responsible for their own suffering by letting their abusers live in their heads rent free.
It is you who are arguing dishonestly, not Taffy or the Oracle.
Ischemgeek, you said it so well. 🙂
Hell, kindergarten bullies don’t even follow that rule. They double down until they get a rise out of you. And if you go to an adult about it, you both get punished.
“Just ignore the bully and they’ll stop” is empty bullshit some school administrator pulled out of their ass as an excuse to not give a fuck about the wellbeing of the children under their supervision.
This has been my experience with every form of abuse I’ve experienced. Usually if I ignore a non abusive person after they do a red flag behavior, they stop because I seem upset. When I ignore an abusive person, they try harder to hurt me.
Cyber bullying is like this too, people just double down if you ignore them.
Saying “We’re never going to change those people” is a false confirmation: if you assume you will never succeed, then you will not try, and then of course you will not change them.
Call me naive, but I believe many people who act as bigots do so unvolontarily, and by making these people change their behaviour, we can make the world a better place for minorities.
Not to mention the vast majority who don’t really act at all, but by not acting, make it possible for the actual bigots to get away with their bigotry.
Good point.
It absolutely CAN make your life worse or better. Someone who has a meltdown because there’s other people around is going to struggle. Someone who can’t go shopping because there’s too much visual noise and they can’t process it is going to struggle. Someone who seriously struggles with noise, especially the noise of people just being people… is going to struggle.
I’m sure the point is made (and for the record I experience all of the above) but here’s some other things that are shit to live with. Executive dysfunction. Struggling with light. Not being able to eat the food you bought expecting to be able to eat. Situational mutism and speech loss episodes. Being semi or non verbal (I do not experience this one but my husband does). Being unable to spend time with a special interest that is screaming to you. Not knowing when you need the toilet to the point that you wet yourself. Not knowing when you’re hungry until you swing between unknowingly starving yourself and binge eating. I’m sure there’s more.
Autism might not, by itself, be debilitating or disabling for you. It might not make your life worse. But it’s a massively varied experience and there are plenty of people for whom it is disabling, debilitating, or just really unpleasant to live with.
Apologies for going off on one there but “it’s not a disability, it’s just (insert thing here) that makes it so” is an attitude I’ve seen before, more than once, and it is both hurtful and harmful.
Okay, so, no. I’m damn joyful as I joyfully spin in an office chair while joyfully twirling mardi gras beads on my joyful fingers.
And now I’m slightly pissy, but pretty soon I will joyfully immerse myself in reading about one of my favorite topics and not emerge for hours.
Yeah, there was a time for me that even when the world just wouldn’t play fair, I could always just find joy in my passions.
These days it’s more difficult for me than ever to hyperfocus on what I love. Autistic burnout is anything but fun. 😖😭
Burnout really does suck. I’m not gonna say “it’ll pass” because I can’t know that and it’s frankly disrespectful to assume I can, but I will say that I sincerely hope it does pass.
Thanks Taffy. 🥲
Say, you still turned off of Discord for the time being? Totes alright if you are. Just miss chatting like we used to.
I basically use Discord for FF14 RP/mod groups that I join and then forget to keep up with, these days.
tbh, fair
I just wish I could send you a YTP about breakfast cereal.
I hope that you can find that passion again.
It can be joyful! And it can get easier. I think a major hurdle for a lot of autistic folk is that society teaches us neurotypical coping mechanisms and then expects them to work for us.
As for joy… I can only speak from personal experience. And I don’t want to invalidate your own experience or where you are right now but I’d like to share some autistic joy. No pressure to read if you’re not in the right headspace.
I’ve been finding so much joy in connecting with my best friend and husband over our shared and differing autistic experiences. Shared validation has been a delight- albeit one that only matters after a lifetime of each of us being invalidated. Seeing the ways autism pops up but isn’t an issue is a source of delighted amusement for me- like the way my husband and I both do velociraptor hands and I never even realised, or seeing how “comfort TV” is a source of familiarity and routine for me. Being able to validate my husband being semi-verbal after a lifetime of him not even knowing it was a thing, and discussing learning sign language has such a promise of being wonderful for us if we do do it.
And that’s not touching on special interests! The way they inform and shape my mind, my views, my thoughts. The way they can help so much with being understimulated. And seeing the joy my husband gets from his recent projects (making videos about him talking about horror movies for Hallowe’en), or recognising how deeply and constant my best friend’s special interest (music) has been throughout his life. The joy of special interests can of course backfire, but when they add joy they can add SO MUCH joy it feels unreal.
Becky’s face in the penultimate panel is the opposite of endearing. Previously one could have chalked it up to this being their dynamic, but now they’ve had at least one major fight and several disputes. Becky doesn’t notice or doesn’t want to notice that the situation has changed
Becky has so much internalized trauma it’s not even funny.
Trauma she paves over with wacky antics and a Stepford smile.
That’s why she keeps picking Joyce up and plopping her back in the box she’s trying to escape from.
Yyyup.
I suppose Joyce can’t use my method when I was five I bit into a pill and threw up so hard it hurt from that point I jsut swallowed pills. Its not really a method But since she seems acclimated to hurling and is 18 or 19 that’s not going to cut it.
Dina, as Joyce is getting infantilized by Becky for her autism right in front of her: i pretend i do not see it
(obviously, if Dina calls Becky out later for this, I will retract my Dina sass.)
but that doesn’t count, because… they’re friends, right? it’s normal for friends, well, for one friend to do this to the other.
also, Becky has never indicated she has a problem with it.
/s
Wait, I thought Becky doesn’t know about Joyce’s autism.
Dina probably won’t break her promise not to tell Becky about Joyce’s neurodivergence, and to tell her where she’s doing wrong here would ironically require just this.
Not necessarily. She doesn’t have to tell her that Joyce is autistic to point out that this probably hurt Joyce… I mean, I may or may not be autistic*, but I would probably flip if a friend pulled this kind of crap on me (though this may be because I am now old enough to not care if I lose a friend, and it might have been different in my late teens).
*I do relate with a lot of comments made by autistic people in this comment section, but have never gotten a diagnosis, for several reasons (good grades in school, a twin brother who I could heavily rely on on most social occasions, a family environment that was very patient with me and my “quirks”, which made a label pretty much unnecessary)
Sorry if I caused you any stress here 😓
Yeah infantilization like so common that I’ve gone just about numb to it, but it really needs to stop 😖
Becky doesn’t know, but Dina does, so she’s witnessing this interaction through that lens.
She doesn’t want becky to know because becky makes fun of her for her autistic traits and because people don’t want to upset becky.
I mean give her a comic or two: she might bring it up with Becky in private anyway.
Though as others point out Joyce did ask Dina not to tell Becky about her possible diagnosis so that could be another minefield to navigate
Oh, those M&M’s Minis? The sound of popping those tubes can lead to a dangerous path.
Or… you could just help yourself with the serving, cafeteria-style. It’s better to be in control of what you’d eat than to completely lose it.
Do college kids still use M&M’s Minis tubes for hiding their weed?
Becky…. Why? I would love to like you, bt I can’t. She’s just been such an ass lately, and her conversion plan is awful. Genuinely, what is she trying to do here? Friendly banter? If my friend said that to me I’d joke with her, but if we had added history like these two I’d just walk away. (Also note to Joyce who can’t hear me!: TMI! Dont let them know!)
Becky is an absolute scumbag and she has been for a very long time, even if we DON’T get into Dina (who I’m kinda mad at right now but whatever) deserving wayyyy better than someone who is significantly more in love with the idea of having a girlfriend than she is with her actual girlfriend. I’m sick enough of Becky and frankly like 3/4s of the cast (if not more at this point!) that I don’t know how much more of this comic I can even read. Every single time she shows up it’s just to be horrible to someone. Like, do we not have enough characters who basically exist solely to hurt or exploit other characters? We just keep going all-in on it forever? I genuinely can’t take much more of this. I don’t know if I even care if it’s building to something interesting or that I won’t hate. The ride is gruesome and I’m starting to think I want to disembark.
A couple of years ago I took a break for… probably over a year. I felt uncomfortable with the then-current storyline, and it being there every day was… difficult.
When I came back I was able to read through the entire storyline in one go and then continue on. It sounds like you might be in a similar emotional place- maybe a short break would be a good idea, and returning when you’re ready. Or even reading it once a month or once every two months- if a page feels bad and you’re reading as they go up you don’t have an immediate balm for that, but if you have a months worth you can read on and hopefully not have any single strip sit with you.
I get that Becky is going through A LOT- I mean, all that’s happened to her is awful. But regardless I think the way she’s been acting is shit, but I’m sure it’ll be resolved and addressed soon just like the issues with the others. I think you should take a break like Jason said, binge reading after a month might feel super rewarding and a lot more relaxing than waiting one day for every page.
So is Becky now shaming Joyce for taking medication instead of supporting her? Cause it lends a lot more justification for Joyce not trusting Becky with the knowledge that she’s autistic if she thought Becky would talk to her like this about things that are outside of her control
Somehow, I don’t think weaponizing Joyce’s trauma developed from religion will make her want to go back to said religion.
Just a hunch.
I think she’s more shaming her for being bad at taking medication, really. The rest is just her being bad at using words or treating anything seriously, because not taking things seriously is how she deals with her problems.
*checks numbers* we’re at 127 already
oh, it’s gonna be a shitshow come daybreak, ain’t it
It might not be (at least more than usual). People mostly seem exhausted with this whole “Joyce getting her teeth kicked in for existing” stuff.
I know it’s building to something but I do hope we have more resolution to *gestures broadly* all this soon, like, Dorothy figures out which is more important: Joyce or Yale, Becky and Joyce finally hash out “hey maybe this banter is too far, old chum, it hits different nowadays”, Joyce is allowed to finally make out with someone nice, like Joe or Dotty or both
and if we could do it without, say, claims like “Joyce is like Elon Musk” or “Becky isn’t really traumatized and also isn’t a person, she’s a soulless puppet of Big Christianity” that would be just swell
Okay a big part of Dorothy’s character that I really appreciate is that she’s allowed to prioritize her career without being punished for it by the narrative. I want her to prioritize yale. I want her to do this in the form of, “still supporting Joyce, but kind of half ass-ing it in a way that Joyce appreciates because it makes her feel more independent.” Like what she’s currently doing but less effort.
I just don’t want her to stop being nice, if that makes sense? I was thinking more, “it’s okay, i know you got this.” That of course requires that Joyce actually gots this, which may not be true.
I don’t think Dorothy is capable of half-assing anything.
I think I get your point though and balancing a gentle and clearly loving encouragement for Joyce to become more independent would absolutely be a good thing.
I spent 4 years at a college across the country from my future husband’s college after dating 3 him in high school. Joyce and Dorothy can still be friends if Dorothy goes to Yale.
It’s possible that the people you’re waiting on are just gonna sit this one out. Personally speaking, I find that webcomics in general attract people who want to be King of the Forum, and on the occasions where that happens it’s best to just let them run it off instead of engaging directly.
It partially, ime, has to do with identifying so strongly with a character that they regard things happening to the character as happening to them directly.
Once, I was served food that made me puke. Luckily, I was a polite boy, so I just kept my mouth shut and swallowed the puke right down again. Nobody noticed a thing.
Ack! I apologize for my double post!
Once, I was served food that made me puke. Luckily, I was a polite boy, so I just kept my mouth shut and swallowed the puke right down again. Nobody noticed a thing.
Manners matter, man.
That’s disgusting. Manners are artificial bullshit.
Agreed.
Not really. Manners at their most basic are how we avoid getting into disputes and killing each other over stupid shit. They’re about respecting other people’s time and space.
They can be abused, certainly, and it can be tough for kids who are neurodivergent, haven’t figured out the rules, or both, but fundamentally manners are how we show respect to each other and that’s important.
:/
I don’t really think I disagree with you, but there’s a time and a place to bring that up.
Screw you. There’s a difference between “we have rules about respecting each other” and “a real person feels obligated to swallow their own vomit while eating something they can’t keep down because people will be cruel to them if they don’t.”
I would hope that you would give my post a more charitable view and see that I intended that situation to fall under the circumstances of my second paragraph.
I find it’s important to push back against generalities like “manners are bullshit” because that encourages some really bad behavior.
Manners often are artificial manifestations of authority and privilege, though. Who has the power to determine what is and isn’t good manners?
If excusing yourself to go expel the pre-existing vomit is “bad behavior”, sure. There absolutely are polite ways to handle that scenario without it being bad manners. Now, if you come back and say “Your food fucking sucks”, that’s maybe pretty rude. But if you come back and say something like “Sorry, something about that really messed with me, is it alright if I maybe don’t eat any more, just in case?”, that’s absolutely not bad manners and only an unreasonable person would see it that way. What I’m saying right now is, manners don’t start at involuntary bodily reactions. But to suggest it’s “more polite” to literally swallow your own puke than it is to do something else, that’s what encourages bad behavior.
…I mean, nothing about what you said would be bad manners? I’m talking about things like not screaming at a shopkeeper because you’re having a bad day, or tracking mud inside someone’s house because, after all, you don’t have to clean it up. “Manners are bullshit” seems to me to be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Let me be perfectly clear, then. I do not advocate for being deliberately shitty to people Just Because, and it’s ridiculous to take what I said to that extreme. Sometimes a short sentence doesn’t need to be followed with a novel in order to be understood in good faith.
I feel like there’s some sort of rational middle ground between “one must swallow down ones disgusting vomit because manners” and “manners are made up garbage”.
You deserve better than that.
That is heartbreaking and Joy’s right that you deserve better.
Becky is helping
She’s doing her best.
Unfortunately.
Dina trying to interact with Joyce a bit nonetheless
Hey, who’s up for a little game, now that enough time has passed that I can post “near the bottom” of the thread?
Becky talks about “baby M&Ms”. What’s the first candy or other treat that you can remember absolutely loving?
Mine was Reese’s Pieces.
Oooh, same-same! I remember being very small and going into somebody’s house on Halloween and eating some they’d put out for their houseguests. I mean, *I* was trick-or-treating, but I assume my parents must have known those people.
It’s one of my earliest memories. I can’t have been older than three, because when I was four I was in NYC already and that Halloween it rained and we had to trick-or-treat at the kitchen door.
Halloween candy — heaven on earth!
Dipping dots!! 😋
Yum! In college the chemistry and physics majors would use the “Dippin’ Dots method” — mix up strawberries, cream, vanilla and sugar, then flash-freeze in the lab with liquid nitrogen. I never tried it but I heard it was heavenly.
Oh, hej, Dippin’ Dots vaccine heroes:
https://www.chron.com/coronavirus/article/Dippin-Dots-covid-coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-15822066.php
Cool!
Twix. Mellowed out on it in as an adult somewhat. Still like it though.
Ooh, I love Twix!
Sweet Tarts. For some reason. Honestly, they’re garbage candy, but for some reason when I was little I adored the little fuckers.
I like ‘em too. I love how sour they are !
Junior Mints.
Why? I do not know. They’re good, and that’s enough for me.
Always loved mint. 🙂
Sour Patch Kids. I loved the sourness and I also loved eating all the sour sugar that was at the bottom of the bag. Second would be Butterfinger, but I think that was more “this is dad’s favorite snack so it’s mine too!”
Dang, yo, Sour Patch Kids are fascinating!
Per Wikipedia:
“known as Very Bad Kids in France”
See also:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Gone_Sour
WHAT!?
Oh, games based on American snacks was VERY popular. My fav was the one on Sega where you played as the red dot on the 7up bottles.
Yup I’m calling it now
Joyce is going to have a full meltdown, like overwhelmed, over stimulated.meltdown.
She seems to be constantly on the defensive with everyone, and everyone seems to be constantly on her ass she has.had multiple changes to her life really quickly that may seem small right now (glasses, getting the pill and autism refferal) on top of the big ones (learning how bad her mother is, the divorce prior in top of everything with beckysndad)
Joyce is not someone who handles change well at all, and maybe that is because of her possibly being on the spectrum, but this is a lot of change very quickly with everyone giving her shit and talking down to her.
This is going to culminate in a total meltdown i guarantee it
I really would like to see at least some of her friends ease up even just a little bit. Constantly being on the back foot is no way to live, and it Does Things to a person’s mind, especially at a young age.
I agree, she had a little outburst for Dotty before. I Wonder who gets hit by accumulated steam
I bet Joe’s there when the floodgates open. That seems to be where we’re going.
He’s the only one who’s listening to her without being judgmental or trying to fix her problems with a “just” and canned platitudes.
Dang, if I had a nickel for every time someone tried to “why don’t you just” me into doing something unhelpful despite my repeated protests, I’d be able to buy… Well, in this economy, probably couple of sodas. But it would at least make a date slightly more pleasant.
“Well why don’t you just…”
“So just…”
“All you have to do is just…”
“It’s so easy all you have to do is just…”
“You think your problems are bad, you just have to worry about…”
Yeah. “Just”. Just just just just just.
I fucking hate that word.
Nailed it + upvore + W, as the tweeters say.
i relate to this one so hard. i cant swallow pills or foods i dont like.
Confirmation that gender really isn’t important to Dina with regards to attraction. After all, she’s dating a girl and a dick at the same time.
I probably understand what you mean, but I’m still gonna tack on a quick “It’s 2022, girls have dicks now, too”, just for shits and giggles and without judgement of any sort.
I always approve of replies for shits and giggles!
Joyce has secretly never eaten any food ever.
Now I’m really curious what happened to that sushi.
You know how ants have a communal stomach they use to carry food back to the colony?
[confused_blinking.gif] No, I uh… I did not know that. Are you suggesting Joyce is full of ants?
This is canon now.
She’s actually a hidden world in SimAnt.
See this is why Dina’s comment diminishing Joyce’s struggles yesterday annoyed me. Joyce struggles to eat certain foods. Pills are included in things she struggles with. She needs these particular pills in order to not end up bed ridden every month. It’s going to be an uphill battle everyday for Joyce to take this medication that must be taken at the same time every day. Dina knows all this.
Did Dina know about the pills until this strip? Asking because I don’t think she did, but I could very well have forgotten about her knowing this.
She definitely did. She met Joyce when Joyce was coming from the doctor to class, and predicted that Joyce would react badly to taking…I believe “hussy pills” was the term she thought Joyce would use.
I mean, it wouldn’t be Dumbing of Age unless everyone was treating Joyce horribly and acting like her problems aren’t real and are somehow her own fault. You love to see it! Except you don’t, because it’s exhausting and awful and I honestly am starting to wonder why I even still read this comic. And before anyone starts rehashing yesterday, YES I KNOW A JOYCE WHO WAS IN TERRIBLE PAIN HAVING AN UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATION RIGHT AFTER BEING WOKEN UP SAID A MEAN THING TO DINA THIS MORNING WHILE THEY WERE TALKING PAST EACH OTHER. Doesn’t change that Becky is being a total scumbag just like she always is to basically everyone OR somehow make it fine for Dina to act like Joyce has no meaningful struggles with autism when she really obviously does, and honestly obviously has for years of this comic, if not the ENTIRE comic.
I feel bad for Joyce having so much food aversion. Not just because constantly getting crap for it must be annoying, but because…well, food is delicious. And eating a wide variety of dishes with different flavors from all around the world is, in my opinion, one of life’s great pleasures. I remember how glad I was the first time I had properly prepared Brussels sprouts as an adult- roasted with salt, pepper, and olive oil- and found out that they’re delicious when properly prepared. It was a good feeling.
“Right, the pills. The pills prescribed to Joyce. The pills specifically chosen to ease Joyce’s mensural distress. Joyce’s pills.
Those pills?”
It makes me sad that Joyce probably wouldn’t enjoy Kronk’s spinach puffs.
OH, I capitalized the K in my email on this machine, that’s why I’m Danny instead of Sarah.
Gonna have to keep doing that from now on, Danny is far more my brand.
Joyce definitely has undiagnosed food allergies, this is classic behavior for that.
Maybe, it’s also classic behavior for some autistic people, judging by comments of people identifying with her on this issue.
Same symptom can have different causes.
You can be autistic with undiagnosed food allergies?
Obviously, but it’s a thing that’s specifically associated with autism. Seen much more commonly among autistic people than neurotypicals.
This is also classic behavior for food aversions without allergies. That’s more likely to be what’s going on here.
The continuing adventures of Joyce being harassed by her friend circle… Oof. I’m so burnt out on new variations of the same unpleasant interactions.
Welcome to today’s episode of “All Of Joyce’s Friends Treat Her Like Garbage 99% Of the Time And We Can’t Tell If The Author Thinks This Is Fine Or Not.” This episode, everyone will be cruel to Joyce. Look forward to our next episode with Joyce in it, which will be about everyone being cruel to Joyce!
Seriously, it’s been a year since the Joyce/Becky fight. The slow burn of Joyce being kind of a butt sometimes and her closest friends crawling up her butt at all times has been a slog. I hope a trip to a life drawing class and maybe interacting with Malaya and Mary will shake things up.
God, same.
It really does say something about what a long term, slow-burn conflict feels like with the pacing of this comic that we’re out here hoping for Mary screentime just for sheer novelty’s sake.
At least the commentariat seems to be mostly on her side today.
Joyce isn’t dealing with this at all well.
I mean, she hasn’t exploded into a “fuck you, fuck this, fuck it” rant like I probably would have at this point, so I think she’s dealing with it pretty well tbh.
Mostly by stuffing her own feelings in a box that’s already too full, which is something I hope she stops doing.
Booster isn’t just the Replacement Mike. He’d splitted 25% his soul to Becky.
I can see Joyce and Becky have this kind of chat about pills even when they were 8. But I would like to understand what Dina think about this. Could Dina be jealous of Joyce?
I don’t like how Becky is treating this, but I think this is her tried and true method of getting Joyce to do things she doesn’t want to do. Egg her on until she loses it and does it to spite others if only so they stop egging her. Not saying it’s good, in fact it’s kinda shitty, but it’s her way of “helping”. While also being cranky that she’s atheist. Can’t wait til Dina figures that one out.
Now that makes sense. Becky is doing this because it works. It’s worked before. It’ll work again. And Joyce knows that she does this — it may be awful, but it’s different awful from a stranger being awful.
That said, this might be a good moment for Joyce to say “Becky, stop. Just stop. You’re making it hard for me to remember why I like you. Try something else.”
I think Dina is starting to see how Joyce’s upbringing DID lead her to be traumatized, despite not knowing she was autistic.
“I would simply refuse”–that wasn’t an option for Joyce.
She’s present for it, but will she see, comprehend, and act on that new information?
Unlikely. It’s coming from Becky, who’s the one person that DOESN’T infantilize Dina, so she’ll rationalize it.
Can’t believe it took one strip for Dina to see that Joyce gets infantilized, too.
I love pills, give me all the pills, give me the biggest pills. Just so long as I never, ever have to take liquid medicine again… Fucking disgusting
yo SAME, same as FUCK
You just gave me uncomfortable flashbacks.
I’m fine with cough medicine. But that pink liquid medicine that’s supposed to be palatable to children still haunts me, decades on.
Liquid antibiotics… That stuff should be banned by the Geneva convention.
I used to get constant throat infections as a kid and had to chug that shit yearly. If you’re lucky enough to have never had it, picture the taste of bitter dry antibiotic pills…but in a thick white paste that slowly chugs it’s way down your throat. Ugh…
My parents literally had to do the Mary Poppins shit of shoving a spoon of straight sugar in my mouth as soon as I swallowed it just to make it bearable
[Core memory unlocked]
Penicillin will kill me, so I got stuck with that chalky white stuff any time I had an ear infection (which was a lot). For the uninitiated, it was the consistency of the old Burger King shakes but it tasted like drywall compound. I never got sugar with it, I just chased it with a bunch of water.
At least I found that stuff more palatable than “cherry” and “grape” medicine. Artificial grape doesn’t taste like grapes, but cherry stuff ruined real cherries for me. The worst was “citrus” Triaminic. That stuff tasted like vomit.
Pepto-Bismol actually tastes pretty good, kind of minty. That’s basically the only liquid OTC medicine I bother with as an adult; pushing through the mental block to swallow pills was well worth the effort. No more grape shoe polish for me!
Conversely, I’m fine with artificial cherry (it’s actually my favourite) but cough syrup ruined grape flavouring for me.
And my mom got wrecked on artificial cherry while pregnant with me cause she had to take some weird medicine since we’re different blood types.
I feel you, liquid medicine is terrible and so are chewable pills that taste bad
Saaaaaaaame! I don’t remember taking liquid medicine because I hated it so much, I begged for pills. Hated when mom busted open the capsules and put it on apple sauce though. Still can’t eat apple sauce from fear of med…
Ohhh i just remembered liquid Cataflam (life long migraines let’s goooo)
I could have shot gunned that shit it tasted so good. And it made my head stop feeling like it was splitting open. Even the pills i take now are sweet
My nighttime meds come to 5 pills and 2 capsules that I take mostly all at once, except for the one that has to dissolve under my tongue that goes last. but anyway 6 objects of various sizes that I put in my mouth and swallow all at once, sometimes dry when I can’t see to find the cup because I have to leave the light off and not wake my wife and I’m nightblind with the cataracts.
With Joyce’s food sensitivities, I completely get where she’s coming from. Growing up, I would try to swallow peas and corn whole because I hated chewing them. It took years to realize I wasn’t just picky for no reason, but that I had issues with textures. In addition to the auditory processing issues I’ve had growing up, certain food I couldn’t stand to touch my mouth because it just… felt bad. I don’t mind the taste of watermelon, the taste is pretty yummy, but the texture is so spongy that trying to chew and swallow it makes me wanna vomit. Also, I too have difficulties taking pills.
I’m afraid having difficulty swallowing pills is not something you grow out of if you still have it at 18. The good thing is that birth control pills are on the small side and not bad to start on.
One on my tricks to swallow bigger pills that I can normally: I put the pill in a spoon, I put a little bit of oil on it, I put everything in my mouth and then I take a swig of water. At first I was like this is a great idea, it will help me get used to it. Nope! Every time I try without oil, I can’t do it.