I mean, there is something to be said about wanting to manage the risks inherent to one’s own mental illness, though it sounds like Ruth’s any to go about it The Willis Way. Which is to say, the worst way possible.
Sure they should break up, because “fine” doesn’t mean _healthy_. Therapy would also be an option. But Ruth unilaterally deciding to break-up, because of this, instead of talking it out, well… that’s unhealthy too.
Billie and Ruth’s relationship started off as highly abusiver, and toxic, and it only got slightly better from there. A suicide pact, is a huge, red, flag, right there. Ruth knows that they are both self-destructive people; therapy helps to recognize that, and deal with those tendencies, in a more constructive way, but that does not magically make them not self-destructive. Ruth acknowledges, like anyone with substance abuse problems, that she could fall at any moment, and should that happen, she does not want Billie/Jennifer to be dragged down with her. Nobody said you have to like it.
I feel Ruth is so much less happy since she stopped collecting femurs and dumping the bodies in the room no one goes into. Is it possible she should try to regain her violent horrible side? Maybe just develop a transformation effect?
Anyone want to take a shot at a Ruth/Ruthless magical anime-girl transformation sequence? Maybe she could be surrounded by a whirlwind of collected femurs, sprays of blood, and the tears of freshmen?
For everyone saying ‘gee Ruth, talk to her about this’, remember that Jennifer loves doing the ‘you’re pushing me away! I won’t let you’ thing in return.
Maybe they are. Probably they are. Dorothy doesn’t know them as well as the audience does though and the specific argument Ruth is using here is not a healthy way to approach a relationship either.
Oh Ruth. Wow.
You deal with tomorrow tomorrow. This sort of thing is one day at a time. Being aware of it is good, but don’t blow up something you love because you fear you might someday hurt them.
Now see, I thought it was a way to tease reader with our futility and our lack of influence. And then realize that we’re going to keep reading day after day anyway.
That is … actually pretty strong logic. Billie needs someone to pull her back from the edge. I thought her decision might have been based on petty self-loathing, but this a real concern.
Leaving Billie, might be the most truly selfless thing we’ve ever seen Ruth do.
i don’t think i’d be strong enough to be able to do that, or at the very least i’d wanna just talk to billie and like “i still wanna be with you but enough with the mutual lovers suicide”
More like “I’ve built a lovely castle, but I’ve built it in a swamp and I have very real concerns that it’s going to burn down, fall over and then sink into the swamp.” She recognized that the foundations were rotten and their current apparent stability is very recent and extremely precarious.
Recovery is not a straight path up and out. It’s a game of snakes and ladders. There isn’t some vague worry that maybe she’ll have a bad day tomorrow. There’s a very real possibility that the road to recovery is going to include a lot of bad days and even new instances of suicidal ideation. Right now she’s healthy and thoughtful enough to recognize that a sexy lesbian suicide pact is a very dangerous place to be when one of you is actually suicidal.
I find that hard to wrap my head around; even tho i’m not particularly close with my family I’d think that “happy from having a family” is diff than “happiness with a lover” but it’d be good to not fully depend on another person for your happiness
She’s happy, for now… but that’s at the expense of having the sword of Damocles hanging over her, forever waiting for something to set off the next crisis that drives them back into their mutual death spiral.
That’s Worthless in a nutshell, the good times are great, the bad times get really bad.
Maybe, and I could see that as a good reason to end the relationship, but I don’t see her saying that here.
I read her as saying that she needs to end it because she’ll drag Jennifer down with her and hurt her. Which isn’t the same at all.
I agree with Needfuldoer’s take. Jennifer will be down at some point regardless of whether Ruth drags her there, that’s untreated mental illness for you. Ruth knows she didn’t cause Jennifer’s first spiral at college. But if her and Jennifer happen to be down at the same time, they might fall back on their suicide pact. And Ruth is afraid she won’t be strong enough to prevent that.
When someone you love wants to die and you cannot remember any reasons why living is worth the pain, talking them down from it is very difficult. If both of them crash, Ruth doesn’t want to be there to feed into Jennifer’s suicidal ideation.
seems like it’d be pretty rare/uncommon at that age even if some ppl did have similar mental issues/trauma but feels like teenage breakups would still feel pretty raw even if they were in a healthier relationship, though i’m assuming ruth is gonna phrase it differently or breaking up with her with no explanation
A combination of recognizing the codependent and toxic start of their relationship and a healthy dose of self-sabotage.
Yeah I don’t foresee her going even further down the spiral once this breakup occurs, not whatsoever, DEFINITELY not in the way it’s already been alluded to.
(Also, Roz’s ‘last semester wasn’t SO bad!’ read the room fail comes off even worse with the hindsight that she’s saying it directly to someone who was hospitalized for suicide ideation once and apparently attempted another time, setting aside the dead evil dads and kidnapping traumas and dead hallmate. And if Ruth didn’t attempt, seems likely it was Jennifer.)
Sidenote, I didn’t comment yesterday and I probably won’t comment much later today, but HOO BOY Dorothy. Either the campus therapists are even worse than my already-low assumption or you are not going to see them at all, and the one thing in that that comforts me is that you are so BLATANTLY not okay that I suspect we’re still building to that eventual breakdown.)
If I remember right, Becky post-timeskip mentioned “suicide attempts” in the multiple sense, referring to the Ruth/Jennifer situation. Ruth’s only been hospitalized in connection to suicidal ideation once “on-screen” in the comics we’ve seen to date, and I think the referred-to-from-Becky second time is what Regalli was talking about.
It wasn’t so bad for Roz, because the worst she got was mild admonishment from the dean for the porn vid, Leslie asked her not to shout over people who are actively learning, and Becky(?) called her a legacy admission that one time. Everything else was tangential to her existence, so I can’t really blame her for not knowing/caring much about it. Still insensitive but eh.
well even if mike was killed off i’d assume billie wouldnt die after a breakup or so, but it would cause a pretty decent deal of damage if willis wanted to torture the readers a bit if he killed off another chara
jaywalking always seemed more dangerous for younger kids yet i see some ppl not even bothering to use the crosswalk even tho it’s close from where they actually cross, i suppose it’d be harder to hit ppl in a group but yeah i don’t have the confidence or recklessness enough to assume a car will stop for me
The roads in this area are so poorly planned and the drivers so inconsiderate, that it’s actually safer to cross about 10 meters away from the nearest crosswalk, while the light is green for oncoming traffic.
well, drivers should slow down anyways but i notice they’re more considerate when i wear my backpack, not that you can tell my age from far away but maybe they dont wanna be known as someone who ‘ran down a student’ as opposed to just some pedestrian
Inside a country you can have pretty different behaviors toward pedestrian and/or bicycles… even if I get the feeling we are headed toward a common standard where you don’t really car about anyone as long as it won’t put you in jail… even been told that swiss people now stopped halting for pedestrian before as they make move toward crossing, as they used to.
I think the weird thing is that Ruth did the violence because she cares about Jennifer and is trying to show her (because it seems that Jennifer seems to want it) that Ruth is bad for her. Like “I care for you and you are convinced i’m evil and to make sure that you understand that I am evil and bad for you I’m going to hurt you so you stay safe”
Now i don’t think this is anything close to a healthy line of thinking but that’s besides the point
I’m not entirely sure Ruth is back to drinking, at least not in the sense she was before. I think the only drinking we’ve seen her doing is at Galasso’s, right?
It’s a red flag. Ruth got drunk for her 21’st birthday, but she has a history of alcohol abuse so it’s hard to trust her to drink responsibly, and right after her last violent confrontation with Jennifer she talked about needing a drink. Ruth is playing with fire on this.
Not sure if this is recognizing they’re in a horribly unhealthy, if improving relationship and deciding she wants to step away or if this is self sabotage.
Or, worse, the ‘it’s for your own good, I’ll hurt you’ crap that always makes me wanna strangle a character.
This poor kid’s havin’ a rough time of it. I hope things work out soon, because she’s one of the characters who’s changed the most since she was introduced.
(Been stuck in the abyss of moderation for a couple days, but it’s actually kinda zen. Like being a comment-section ghost, haunting the halls.)
I was never fond of …. Rillie? Buth? see? even the ship name sound bad!
But THIS is a bad reason to break up. Break up now because the future could be bad?!
Either you can make a better future, or you can’t (in which case, yes, break up), but breaking up to prevent the relationship from getting worse based solely on fear? no…
I think this is an admission of uncertainty that she can actually prevent it getting worse later on. Severe insecurity is poison to a relationship, so it might not be such a bad idea to know her own limitations and call things off before she lets it get out of control.
name mashups are fairly easy to remember/understand tho a few other fandoms also just make up names (like pokemon but other than some classic names i feel like it’s prolly decided by whoever’s the most popular fanartist at the time and ppl just use their name/influence. or maybe color scheme, like Strawberry Lemonade might be a cute pair name for charas that are pink/yellow)
But anyways given how long college can feel, i imagine some ppl would want a relationship that’s stable if not necessarily long term (although i can imagine ppl who met in college staying together and married but i’m kinda surprised some ppl would rush off to get married at 18/right outta high school, not that it’s impossible but the person you are at like 35 is diff than who you are at 18 i’d think even if you don’t go through major lifestyle changes, but it still varies from couple to couple)
Back in the day, ship names were simply the two (sometimes more!) character names put together, sometimes with a slash or other punctuation between. But at some point, someone figured out that making up portmanteaus or entirely new phrases to identify relationships added more opportunities to be “clever” and/or identify and exclude outsiders who didn’t know the “proper” terminology.
Oops, that was meant to say “word”. My cell phone loves to “fix” words into something that’s either close enough or nothing like what I typed, and I don’t always remember to check what’s been mangled.
Now now, there’s still time for her to do that. Sometimes you need to talk to a third party to get the thoughts out and maybe gain new insight, before you go straight to the source half-cocked. It’s also unhealthy to only talk to your partner about things, after all.
Yeah okay. My train of thought went from “Ruth fearing she might get Jennifer/Billie killed” to “her deciding right then and there to end things with her”.
You’re right, there’s still the possibility for her to still have the talk with her partner. Question is if it’ll truly help their relationship like I hoped, and what will actually cause the breakup.
Real talk though; this is the mistake that happens so often when dealing with issues like this. You think about what happened before and what may happen because of it, and ignore what you have now and how it could very well be better because of how its going now. Its a viscous cycle.
I can really start to see why Jennibillifer is so angsty about this Hallow of ween.
…I know shapeshifting irises are a common cartoon affectation, but for some reason in this instance I can’t unsee her eyes as repeatedly rotating 90º, which seems like it would be super painful.
Maybe we misread this a little bit. It wasn’t that Ruth is burnt out on their dynamic. It’s that Ruth retains this certainty that she’s going to mess things up.
Mind you, the night is still young. Plenty of time for more reasons to surface.
Billie’s modus operandi for serious discussion (at least when someone else broaches the subject) is to handwave it away with a “yeah, yeah, sure, no problem”, box it up, and ignore it.
Call me crazy, but might this not be something for Ruth to bring up to HER THERAPIST instead of the maybe-least-traumatized teenager in her immediate area?
Sometimes, people ask their friends for advice that’s more immediately pressing. I assume a therapist wouldn’t be super jazzed with her randomly calling/texting outside of office hours.
Does Ruth actually go to therapy? I know she had group therapy sessions while in the hospital but she’s rarely mentioned an actual therapist that she’s still seeing. The drugs she’s taking seem to have had more of an impact than anything.
… sent that too early sorry. “the therapists here aren’t very good”
(b11/01/herselves)
unfortunately, therapy doesn’t preclude backsliding or relapse, and I also think that generally ruth’s therapist may have been invested in ruth and jennifer’s separation. dorothy, to ruth, would probably feel like a neutral party.
Time for Dorothy to use her ability to console, calm, cheer and help for Ruth. Make her understand she can be a better person and she’s allowed to be happy. Because I can’t imagine she said to Ruth that she’s right and she has to break up with Billie.
Yeah I’m in the same boat. I don’t see this as bad or even unreasonable. It appears to be an incredible sign of growth for Ruth where she now with some help perspective and a clear head how high risk her and Billie are together there is never a guarantee of perfect stability you can’t plan for future relapse trauma or anything of that nature and she already knows they both have issues of codependency and would be willing to spiral together not pull eachother out. So I can’t see this as a bad call even if painful
she’s not wrong at all.
Billie (in the flashback) is shown to want to keep the unhealthy relationship going and as unhealthy as it always was.
ruth told her that she was basically the most important person on earth to her, one level of intensity off of asking for her hand in marriage, and all billie could do was come back with an insult.
hatesex might be fun, but sometimes what you really need is an “i love you”.
I don’t understand why everyone is saying this is unhealthy or bad on Ruth this seems very very positive. Sure it’s a breakup but her reasoning is sound. I started this relationship when we were both in a bad place were doing much better but there’s no guarantee that will continue and we were very close to helping echother die and that means we likely should not be in a relationship with eachother. This seems very reasonable and like an incredibly good sign for Ruth that she is future thinking and realizes risks
Yeah, I agree with you. I think Ruth would be better off in a relationship with lower stakes–a relationship where if she feels suicidal or her partner feels suicidal, they know the other person won’t help them go through with it.
If Ruth were doing this for her OWN mental health, because she’s worried Billie may not be good for her, then I’d agree. There are plenty of reasons she could validly feel that Billie or their past may compromise Ruth’s recovery (esp considering Billie’s apparent lack of commitment to her own recovery, based on their prior interactions and her lack of going to therapy).
But the way she’s phrasing this makes it sound like she just thinks SHE’S not safe/good enough for Billie because what if she slips again and drags Billie down with her.
Which is…not actually healthy at all. Deciding you are not good enough for someone else and that they would be better off without you is kind of textbook “not healthy.” And frankly really unfair to the other person. It assumes a level of control/unequal responsibility over the relationship and is essentially telling the other person “you can’t have your own agency to decide if you should be in this. I’m deciding for you.”
So whether their relationship could ever be healthy or not, whether them being together is the right or wrong thing, if THIS is Ruth’s specific reason for the breakup, and the reason she gave Billie, Billie has EVERY right to be pissed.
And like motorfirebox said, it also does seem like Ruth is terrified of actually being happy, doesn’t trust it will last and is possibly trying to sabotage it by imploding things herself before they go wrong so she can feel like she has some control over the situation. Which, again, not healthy.
Her brain chemistry may be operating at more stable levels now, but she clearly still has A LOT of bad habits and harmful thought patterns to unlearn.
Also arguably, based of what we’ve seen of the present in terms of how things went after this breakup…breaking up with Billie doesn’t actually seem to have helped Ruth stay in a healthy place. She’s drinking again, she’s angry and depressed a lot, and okay maybe that would’ve happened anyway, but I suspect cutting off someone she loves who really truly made her happy right as she was starting to get healthier was probably a major factor in her emotional backslide.
I’m not sure. I agree. Clearly they have issues. But I thikn RUth is right. Hey neither of us is particularly stable. I don’t trust myself yet to be stable and keep us both safe. We were in a mutually destructive relationship and I don’t trust myself to not take you down with me. Or You to be able pull either of us back. SO this feels right. Sure it’s a bit condescending to Billie but Ruth is older and is actively going to treatment so it makes sense she’d see the issues and have to make the call
Yeah I guess phrased the way you phrased it, it sounds better. It’s unclear to me how much of this is supposed to be Ruth actually looking at the situation rationally and thinking she needs to focus on her own mental health alone for BOTH their sakes, or if it’s Ruth putting Billie up on a pedestal/assuming she isn’t good enough for Billie because of their last and because she thinks she will inevitably backslide and drag Billie down with her.
It’s extremely unhealthy in that she’s looking for ways to be depressed again. Which isn’t her fault per se, that’s just some stuff major depressive disorder will train your brain to do, but she’s not seeing nearly as clearly as she thinks she is.
Codependence is ALSO unhealthy, and it’s good that she recognizes that and is in some way looking to address it, but the route she’s taking is like treating your alcoholism with opiates.
Ruth’s got a point: a relationship formed on the basis of “if one of us dies, we both die” is HARDLY a good one and it’s very hard to determine how things will go when the both of you are so horribly volatile for various reasons and your only sample size for could-bes are violent, knee-jerk decisions made with extreme emotion and little thought.
I had a friend try to make a suicide pact with me when I was terminally ill (i am not anymore!) and I spent HOURS one day TRYING to convince this person who was PERFECTLY HEALTHY and with a REASONABLY FINE life (not perfect, but within their hands to be better with a FANTASTIC league of supportive friends) that they did not NEED to die just because I was going to. That to die just because someone you knew for a handful of months has to was absolutely nonsense. It is EXHAUSTING. It is PAINFUL.
This person FOUGHT me that they were just gonna do it anyway. Every advice they ever took from me before OR after, they spat in my face and never took it. This was a person I wanted to help and nurture and push towards something better and healthier than putting the onus of their suicide on me during a time that it was inevitable I was going to die, when we hadn’t known each other for more than half a year.
Nah man. Ruth has a completely reasonable argument. Whether or not breaking up is the best course, there is NOTHING more emotionally taxing than a one-sided suicide pact.
i feel really bad for you but the problem was that you were not okay with a dynamic they were trying to force on you, not that they were losing to you at misery poker and didn’t let you make them be heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeAAAAAAAAAAlthy
It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion, and there’s nothing you can do to help out or stop it, so you just watch horrified just waiting for it to end quickly and hope no one gets hurt
Yes, but rather than explain things, Ruth is probably going to try to frame the break-up as being for Jennifer’s benefit and/or say that she just doesn’t love her anymore. Which Jennifer would be able to see through which would be why she was telling Ruth to stop lying to her.
Ruth needs a hug. I fear Dotty‘s not up to the level of compassionate clearheadedness required to deal with this.
The “I see why you might feel this way, but it’s not real”. The past was fucked-up, I understand why you fear the future might be, too. But that’s not a reason to stop enjoying the present. That’s not a reason to sabotage the present.
(She’s with Jason now bc she doesn’t care if she fucks up, isn’t she?)
Fun fact: one of the reasons chronic depression is chronic is that even when you’re not feeling depressed, your brain has been trained to look for reasons to feel bad! Isn’t that fun!?
I’ll be surprised if this hasn’t been said before but it hasn’t been said by me so I’mma say it anyways. Ruth is definitely doing the right thing for the wrong reason, partly because she’s misidentifying the reason. And I think this comic really helps show that Ruth and Billie/Jennifer (hereafter called Billifer) are looking for different things in their relationship.
The way I read it is that Billifer wants happiness while Ruth wants contentment. “But Andy!” I hear you say, “Aren’t those the same thing? Or close enough as makes no difference?” And no. It’s not. See, happiness is the highs, which means there’s also lows. Whereas contentment is more of a steady “yeah, I’m okay with this” feeling. If we were looking at emotion as a wave, someone seeking happiness would have a high amplitude while someone who’s content would have a low amplitude.
And I think it comes from their backgrounds. Billifer wanted approval and validation in no small part because her parents just aren’t there to give it. So she tries to be cool and popular and fought hard to get herself into that niche, which means she has to shove herself into the box of a Mean Girl/Heathers type that’s solid Teflon. But in reality she’s actually geeky and kinda danger-seeking and she wants those highs and lows and the attention that comes with them. That’s what brought her to Ruth; she got the emotional spikes from their fighting and then when they went from slap-slap to kiss she kept the emotional spikes. It’s why the suicide pact appealed to her and why she had trouble giving up alcohol. All these things helped get her those emotional highs and lows. So then when the relationship stabilizes, she’s still pushing for that by yelling at Ruth. And this works out for why she’s with Asher now (it’s a way into that cool group that validates her while also requiring her to be the solid Teflon above-it-all Heather again) and why she picked a fight with Ruth (she’s not getting those emotional spikes and wants them). Heck, it even plays into the head cheerleader alpha bongo persona; when you’re supposed to be Too Cool for School but you secretly want to help people because you’re actually decent and you also want the emotional spike that you get from it, how do you play it off? “Hey this is my fucking job I’m supposed to take care of shit.”
And then there’s Ruth, who’s a bit odd really. The highs and lows were, for a long time, the only way she could feel. I’m half convinced that’s why she roots for the Leafs: she knows every year they’d give her that emotional spike of utter disappointment and heartbreak. but now that she’s getting treatment, she’s able to recognize that she’s been through all that and it’s not what she wants. She doesn’t want the numbness but she also doesn’t want those wild dangerous spikes. She wants the steady safety and contentment she had with her parents rather than the low of her grandfather. She wants the safety and non-threatening nature of Jason rather than the high and excitement of dating Billifer or taking risks with a new girl. So in the end it’s not just that their relationship started from a toxic place, it’s not just that they’re dangerous for each other. They’re also just plain incompatible because they need different things from their romantic partners.
On one hand, you have a duty to hold yourself to the morals you have. If Ruth feels unable to forgive herself for how far she was willing to sink with Jennifer, then staying in the relationship would both be feeding her highest highs and worsening her lowest lows. It is possible staying in the relationship then would be unhealthy and damaging for her recovery.
On the other hand, you have to consider, is this self-sabotage? Are you not allowing yourself to enjoy the present because you are only thinking of the past or future? A lot of toxic relationships do last a longer time because people are UNWILLING to accept the relationship has to end because you do not agree on Major Compatibility Topic and focus too much on an in the moment happiness. But a relationship that has improved a lot is easy to sabotage if you use the past as an indicator for the future when a lot of things have changed and are being worked on.
It is good to talk it out with someone though because depressed brain can be very convincing, but, a more objective outside eye may see things that you don’t or find logic faults that you can’t see.
Hey random life story,
Someone once broke up with me because they knew they had abusive tendencies (disregard for boundaries) and would take advantage of people with low self-esteem and/or bad boundary-setting skills (check and check), and they started noticing that pattern of behaviour towards me in our relationship.
They explained their decision patiently and apologized profusely and did the whole “it’s not you its me” except they meant it. I was still hurt and mad at them for a while, then thought about it, re-read their texts a bunch of times, talked it over with friends and eventually it made sense to me and I admired them for having the courage and honesty to break up.
Crucially, they didn’t break up “for my own good”, they did so because they didn’t want to end up hating themself for betraying their own values.
I’m not sure to what extent this applies here but it feels relevant.
Honestly, good for them for recognising they want to be a better person than that and putting themselves in check. I hope they learned how to do better.
i mean, this was just a few months back actually. i don’t know why i made it sound like it was in the distant past.
but yeah, i hope they do learn to do better, they’re an amazing, brilliant person, and a stellar lay.
we’re not speaking atm (too confusing and unpleasant for both of us, needed a break), but they’re going to therapy and so on, and so am i. hopefully we’ll meet again when we’re all done growing-up =P
…anyway my point was, there may be parallels between my and JenniRuth’s situation. i know i cautiously approve of Ruth’s decision for now.
Then I wish them improvement. Sounds like they’re a good person at heart who learned bad behaviours at some point that they want to stop doing.
And yeah, I can see how that might parallel for you. I also currently think Ruth’s reasons are fair. She can enjoy her relationship and also realise it makes her hate herself because she has a higher moral standard for herself when not in a depression pit.
Thanks for your sweet replies Sam =)
And yeah I see from your own comments that we seem to be on the same page wrt Ruth’s rationale. Let’s see where it goes!
…I have to be honest, I feel like “I am not comfortable dating someone I once was in a suicide pact situation with, even if we are happy right now.” is. A pretty good reason to break up? Like it’s sad! But. Being in a relationship where your past shared behavior and risk of relapse is like. Eating you ALIVE is. Pretty reasonable!
That Jennifer seems to want to have stayed in the suicide pact while Ruth is getting healthier, see my comments during Jennifer’s blow-up right before this conversation, really adds to this. Ruth is getting better while Jennifer has deliberately stalled her own progress and as much as Ruth is focusing on Jennifer in her reasoning here, fear of backsliding is a lot more urgent than “You deal with tomorrow, tomorrow,” when your partner is actively goading you to cut your line in virtually every conversation.
Ruth is the one that’s still drinking. “getting better” is definitely questionable.
We could just be back to “I want you away from me so when I inevitably self-destruct you don’t come with me.” Which is the depression talking, not noble motives.
Whether it was Jennifer doing it before or Ruth now.
It doesn’t have to, and Ruth is doing her best to make it healthy, but Jennifer is the single-most toxic person in the cast and has shown at every turn she’d dump nuclear waste in a kiddie pool if she had a preconception that the kids should be irradiated.
When I was depressed and suicidal, I knew that it was a mental illness. Everything I read told me that my brain was lying to me, and that reality wasn’t as bad as I thought it was. Basically, I heard, over and over, “You can’t perceive reality. You can’t trust yourself.” It wasn’t malicious like gaslighting is, but the result was the same for me. I knew I couldn’t trust some of the things I thought and felt, but that didn’t leave me anything to replace it with, so I was just scared and lost. And I didn’t know how to differentiate between the correct and incorrect things my brain told me. Everything I thought, believed, and felt was suspect.
It’s so hard to navigate the world when you can’t trust the person you rely on to explain reality to you. When you are told that you cannot trust yourself over and over, you become afraid of yourself. You’re afraid that you’ll act on something you think is completely legitimate and then it ends up just being your brain lying to you again.
I no longer feel that way, but it lasted for a while after I starting antidepressants. Regaining trust in your brain is a slow process.
Anyway I think that’s kind of what Ruth is feeling right now.
(I have no idea whether I should go with Billie or Jennifer for these flashbacks, so I’m just going with Jennifer because that’s what she is in the tags right now.)
Y’know, I love the relationship these two had, and I was really excited to watch them find a healthier place with each other, but Ruth… has a point here?
Jennifer was all in on the Sexy Lesbian Suicide Pact (having been the one to name it that, even). She’s repeatedly stated that she’s willing to die for Ruth, and during their arguments Ruth even pointed out that Jennifer was willing to die for her, but not live for her. And while we know Ruth’s stable, her first tumble off the wagon after being put on her first antidepressants was in a self-destructive attempt to keep her relationship with Jennifer going. Ruth knows, from her own choices, that both of them would choose to go down in flames together than thrive alone, because they’ve already both done that multiple times.
And god knows that Jennifer — who loves so deeply and so messily as she does, and who’s so certain in her ability to Have Shit on Lock even when she demonstrably doesn’t — isn’t going to make the decision to douse the fire before it hits the gunpowder, so to speak. That’s not who Jennifer’s ever been.
But Ruth? Ruth, who is already deeply aware of her flaws and abusive tendencies? Ruth would absolutely be the one to go “we need to stop this while we’re in a good place, because we won’t be able to stop this when we aren’t.”
Whether or not you think she’s making the healthiest call or not giving herself or Jennifer enough credit or what have you is up to your own interpretation. But I can’t fault Ruth for this conclusion at all, not when I can see the exact dots she’s put together to reach it.
Ooooooh, so THAT’S what happened. Ruth read the comments and realized their fucked up lesbian death cult was super toxic. I can’t say that I blame her but I also can’t say that it’s impossible that something good can grow from something very un-good. I’m still on team Rilly/Bluth. I think their shit was fucked but they could have un-fucked it with significant effort. But I also don’t blame anyone who agrees that ending it was the right call.
I guess what I’m saying is, I want to believe, but I am torn.
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“It’s so good now! …but it could be BAD… BETTER BURN EVERYTHING TO THE GROUND”
D=
They did have that suicide pact thing
Dang it how does html work
Honestly, not great sometimes, but we seem to be stuck with it!
Hey, are you new here? I don’t think I’ve seen you here before….
I mean, there is something to be said about wanting to manage the risks inherent to one’s own mental illness, though it sounds like Ruth’s any to go about it The Willis Way. Which is to say, the worst way possible.
Maybe tomorrow the world becomes a zombie apocalypse and Ruth gets bitten! You don’t know! Ruth just saved Jennifer’s life!
Luckily, Canadian zombies crave poutine instead of human flesh.
they prefer any particular kind? how effective would Hoosier poutine be?
If it technically counts as Poutine, you’re fine.
I’ve never tried Hoosier so I can’t comment any further.
but Saskatchewan zombies crave graiiiiins. 😉
Sure they should break up, because “fine” doesn’t mean _healthy_. Therapy would also be an option. But Ruth unilaterally deciding to break-up, because of this, instead of talking it out, well… that’s unhealthy too.
No mistake: breaking up only *ever* needs one party’s decision. But her wanting to break up for Ms. Billingsworth’s benefit, is rather… ass-backwards.
One has to hold onto what happiness comes your way in life. No-one else is going to give it to you.
Billie and Ruth’s relationship started off as highly abusiver, and toxic, and it only got slightly better from there. A suicide pact, is a huge, red, flag, right there. Ruth knows that they are both self-destructive people; therapy helps to recognize that, and deal with those tendencies, in a more constructive way, but that does not magically make them not self-destructive. Ruth acknowledges, like anyone with substance abuse problems, that she could fall at any moment, and should that happen, she does not want Billie/Jennifer to be dragged down with her. Nobody said you have to like it.
I feel Ruth is so much less happy since she stopped collecting femurs and dumping the bodies in the room no one goes into. Is it possible she should try to regain her violent horrible side? Maybe just develop a transformation effect?
So what you’re saying is Amazi-Girl needs a new side-kick
Maybe she could get into online gaming.
Please make this happen. If Amber and her get into an RPG or Pokemon Go or something, that’d be SO COOL.
In some online games, you’re not allowed to call it “gambling”, so people will refer to it as “gamba”. Never did research why that, specifically.
Anyone want to take a shot at a Ruth/Ruthless magical anime-girl transformation sequence? Maybe she could be surrounded by a whirlwind of collected femurs, sprays of blood, and the tears of freshmen?
Take a shot? What with like art or something?
Exactly. I’m hoping to inspire Yotomoe, but if another artist is around I’d be excited to see what people come up with. Hopefully they would too.
Yoto said he’s a little busy for auxiliary art like that right now, but I’m more than ready to take a commission if your ready to place one. 😉
RUTH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO are you really as clear headed as you think
For everyone saying ‘gee Ruth, talk to her about this’, remember that Jennifer loves doing the ‘you’re pushing me away! I won’t let you’ thing in return.
And maybe they are, in fact, better apart.
Maybe they are. Probably they are. Dorothy doesn’t know them as well as the audience does though and the specific argument Ruth is using here is not a healthy way to approach a relationship either.
Oh Ruth. Wow.
You deal with tomorrow tomorrow. This sort of thing is one day at a time. Being aware of it is good, but don’t blow up something you love because you fear you might someday hurt them.
Don’t be Xander.
Too late. 🙁
Is that a Buffy reference? It feels like a Buffy reference, but I’ve only seen a few episodes.
This is not entirely unlike Xander sabotaging his happy relationship with Anya
Yes and Yes to Ray Radlein as well.
Spoilers for Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 7.
Ah. I’m just a little disappointed in Ruth here. That’s pretty bad reasoning to me. No wonder Jennifer’s so pissed. Keep working on yourself Ruth.
Damn you… past
WHY did it delete the other half of my comment
who knows? Askimet sometimes seems like it’s on some bad shit
What was the other half of the comment.
Damn you past willis! and then some other stuff i forgot about.
Yeah, that’s pretty valid honestly. The past sure likes to make a mess for the present.
What is there was no past?
I mean, there isn’t one any more.
You know the old saying: “The past is far behind us. The future doesn’t exist.”
That’s confusing, are you sure you didn’t mean, “the pasta is inside us, the futon is right here”? Now that I can relate to *yawn*
What if there was no past.
Curse you sticky fingers.
The new poll…
My parasite sensors indicate this is likely nothing more than a way to tease readers with an illusion of influence.
Well played, Willis.
Now see, I thought it was a way to tease reader with our futility and our lack of influence. And then realize that we’re going to keep reading day after day anyway.
That is … actually pretty strong logic. Billie needs someone to pull her back from the edge. I thought her decision might have been based on petty self-loathing, but this a real concern.
Leaving Billie, might be the most truly selfless thing we’ve ever seen Ruth do.
i don’t think i’d be strong enough to be able to do that, or at the very least i’d wanna just talk to billie and like “i still wanna be with you but enough with the mutual lovers suicide”
I’m happy, but something could easily happen to make me lose that happiness and so I must destroy the source of my happiness.
I mean, it sounds like pretty impeccable logic to me.
More like “I’ve built a lovely castle, but I’ve built it in a swamp and I have very real concerns that it’s going to burn down, fall over and then sink into the swamp.” She recognized that the foundations were rotten and their current apparent stability is very recent and extremely precarious.
Recovery is not a straight path up and out. It’s a game of snakes and ladders. There isn’t some vague worry that maybe she’ll have a bad day tomorrow. There’s a very real possibility that the road to recovery is going to include a lot of bad days and even new instances of suicidal ideation. Right now she’s healthy and thoughtful enough to recognize that a sexy lesbian suicide pact is a very dangerous place to be when one of you is actually suicidal.
“I’m totally clearheaded now, which is why I need to start sabotaging the relationship that makes me happier than I was before my parents died”
You get it!
I find that hard to wrap my head around; even tho i’m not particularly close with my family I’d think that “happy from having a family” is diff than “happiness with a lover” but it’d be good to not fully depend on another person for your happiness
She’s happy, for now… but that’s at the expense of having the sword of Damocles hanging over her, forever waiting for something to set off the next crisis that drives them back into their mutual death spiral.
That’s Worthless in a nutshell, the good times are great, the bad times get really bad.
Maybe, and I could see that as a good reason to end the relationship, but I don’t see her saying that here.
I read her as saying that she needs to end it because she’ll drag Jennifer down with her and hurt her. Which isn’t the same at all.
I agree with Needfuldoer’s take. Jennifer will be down at some point regardless of whether Ruth drags her there, that’s untreated mental illness for you. Ruth knows she didn’t cause Jennifer’s first spiral at college. But if her and Jennifer happen to be down at the same time, they might fall back on their suicide pact. And Ruth is afraid she won’t be strong enough to prevent that.
When someone you love wants to die and you cannot remember any reasons why living is worth the pain, talking them down from it is very difficult. If both of them crash, Ruth doesn’t want to be there to feed into Jennifer’s suicidal ideation.
“You’re better off without me, so we must break up,” is uh,,
seems like it’d be pretty rare/uncommon at that age even if some ppl did have similar mental issues/trauma but feels like teenage breakups would still feel pretty raw even if they were in a healthier relationship, though i’m assuming ruth is gonna phrase it differently or breaking up with her with no explanation
I’m not so sure I’d wanna stay in a relationship with somebody who used that justification, truth be told and all things being equal.
Jennifer’s used that logic before in return, so…
DAAAAAAMN YOOOOOOU WIIIIIILLIIIIIIS
Again, but with feeling.
Mood
A combination of recognizing the codependent and toxic start of their relationship and a healthy dose of self-sabotage.
Yeah I don’t foresee her going even further down the spiral once this breakup occurs, not whatsoever, DEFINITELY not in the way it’s already been alluded to.
(Also, Roz’s ‘last semester wasn’t SO bad!’ read the room fail comes off even worse with the hindsight that she’s saying it directly to someone who was hospitalized for suicide ideation once and apparently attempted another time, setting aside the dead evil dads and kidnapping traumas and dead hallmate. And if Ruth didn’t attempt, seems likely it was Jennifer.)
Sidenote, I didn’t comment yesterday and I probably won’t comment much later today, but HOO BOY Dorothy. Either the campus therapists are even worse than my already-low assumption or you are not going to see them at all, and the one thing in that that comforts me is that you are so BLATANTLY not okay that I suspect we’re still building to that eventual breakdown.)
I don’t think she’s referencing anything we haven’t directly witnessed.
If I remember right, Becky post-timeskip mentioned “suicide attempts” in the multiple sense, referring to the Ruth/Jennifer situation. Ruth’s only been hospitalized in connection to suicidal ideation once “on-screen” in the comics we’ve seen to date, and I think the referred-to-from-Becky second time is what Regalli was talking about.
Hmm I can’t find that. I didn’t look super hard though. Do you remember where?
re: therapist, yes, it’s the first one, they’re worse than you think. This strip pretty much speaks for itself:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/personalgrowth/
BTW really good to see you here Regalli! How have things been?
It wasn’t so bad for Roz, because the worst she got was mild admonishment from the dean for the porn vid, Leslie asked her not to shout over people who are actively learning, and Becky(?) called her a legacy admission that one time. Everything else was tangential to her existence, so I can’t really blame her for not knowing/caring much about it. Still insensitive but eh.
That is one deep post-nut clarity that had a long time coming
Shouldn’t have done it in the bathroom, you just cleaned yourself into a blank state!
Ruth is afraid of herself. 🙁
i mean, still a chance of that if asher’s family as as dangerous as they implied
tho now i’m morbidly curious if there have been similar lovers/suicide pacts that ended up being ‘successful’Asher’s family had a cop murder a dude, they’re dangerous.
well even if mike was killed off i’d assume billie wouldnt die after a breakup or so, but it would cause a pretty decent deal of damage if willis wanted to torture the readers a bit if he killed off another chara
If they’re so dangerous, why don’t we ever see them jaywalking or loitering?
jaywalking always seemed more dangerous for younger kids yet i see some ppl not even bothering to use the crosswalk even tho it’s close from where they actually cross, i suppose it’d be harder to hit ppl in a group but yeah i don’t have the confidence or recklessness enough to assume a car will stop for me
Ask not for whom the brakes squeal…
The roads in this area are so poorly planned and the drivers so inconsiderate, that it’s actually safer to cross about 10 meters away from the nearest crosswalk, while the light is green for oncoming traffic.
well, drivers should slow down anyways but i notice they’re more considerate when i wear my backpack, not that you can tell my age from far away but maybe they dont wanna be known as someone who ‘ran down a student’ as opposed to just some pedestrian
Whatever works, I say do it. American drivers are convinced they’re the only entity on the road, I swear.
Inside a country you can have pretty different behaviors toward pedestrian and/or bicycles… even if I get the feeling we are headed toward a common standard where you don’t really car about anyone as long as it won’t put you in jail… even been told that swiss people now stopped halting for pedestrian before as they make move toward crossing, as they used to.
*even been told that swiss people now stopped halting for pedestrian before these express the intention to cross the road, as they used to.
sorry for my loss.
Is Ruth going to Spider-Man the heck out of Jennifer?
“It’s too dangerous for me to love you!”
So, this feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy type scenario:
Ruth thinks things will get worse in the future and she’ll hurt Jennifer
Breaks up with Jennifer “for her own good” thus hurting Jennifer
Ruth goes back to drinking likely because from the depression of breaking up with Jennifer thus getting worse.
Jennifer and Ruth get into brief violent argument over break up.
That’s just what I’m seeing so far. This is what Ruth expected but it seems like she caused it.
I think the weird thing is that Ruth did the violence because she cares about Jennifer and is trying to show her (because it seems that Jennifer seems to want it) that Ruth is bad for her. Like “I care for you and you are convinced i’m evil and to make sure that you understand that I am evil and bad for you I’m going to hurt you so you stay safe”
Now i don’t think this is anything close to a healthy line of thinking but that’s besides the point
I’m not entirely sure Ruth is back to drinking, at least not in the sense she was before. I think the only drinking we’ve seen her doing is at Galasso’s, right?
It’s a red flag. Ruth got drunk for her 21’st birthday, but she has a history of alcohol abuse so it’s hard to trust her to drink responsibly, and right after her last violent confrontation with Jennifer she talked about needing a drink. Ruth is playing with fire on this.
Not sure if this is recognizing they’re in a horribly unhealthy, if improving relationship and deciding she wants to step away or if this is self sabotage.
Or, worse, the ‘it’s for your own good, I’ll hurt you’ crap that always makes me wanna strangle a character.
Feels like it could be all of the above. Especially with Ruth’s history there’s no way to tell.
Personally rooting for the first thing you said.
“D. All of the above.”
Reads to me like the “it’s for your own good”.
“I would have helped her die. That’s unacceptable.”
This poor kid’s havin’ a rough time of it. I hope things work out soon, because she’s one of the characters who’s changed the most since she was introduced.
(Been stuck in the abyss of moderation for a couple days, but it’s actually kinda zen. Like being a comment-section ghost, haunting the halls.)
…You did that on purpose, didn’t you. Cheeky devil.
Welcome to the comments section, Oracle!!!! 😆
We’re a diverse community that just likes screwing around, discussing things, and just having lots of fun!!!!
Also great music!!!! 😍
*plays “Welcome Mitsuha No Tsugaku” on hacked muzak*
Hey, recently-free-from-the-moderation-abyss buddies!
I thought your icon was a pot leaf until just this very second.
I was never fond of …. Rillie? Buth? see? even the ship name sound bad!
But THIS is a bad reason to break up. Break up now because the future could be bad?!
Either you can make a better future, or you can’t (in which case, yes, break up), but breaking up to prevent the relationship from getting worse based solely on fear? no…
I think this is an admission of uncertainty that she can actually prevent it getting worse later on. Severe insecurity is poison to a relationship, so it might not be such a bad idea to know her own limitations and call things off before she lets it get out of control.
name mashups are fairly easy to remember/understand tho a few other fandoms also just make up names (like pokemon but other than some classic names i feel like it’s prolly decided by whoever’s the most popular fanartist at the time and ppl just use their name/influence. or maybe color scheme, like Strawberry Lemonade might be a cute pair name for charas that are pink/yellow)
But anyways given how long college can feel, i imagine some ppl would want a relationship that’s stable if not necessarily long term (although i can imagine ppl who met in college staying together and married but i’m kinda surprised some ppl would rush off to get married at 18/right outta high school, not that it’s impossible but the person you are at like 35 is diff than who you are at 18 i’d think even if you don’t go through major lifestyle changes, but it still varies from couple to couple)
Back in the day, ship names were simply the two (sometimes more!) character names put together, sometimes with a slash or other punctuation between. But at some point, someone figured out that making up portmanteaus or entirely new phrases to identify relationships added more opportunities to be “clever” and/or identify and exclude outsiders who didn’t know the “proper” terminology.
Ha! Newb. You called it terminology.
You’d prefer “shibboleths”? 😐
I don’t keep up with webspeak. Would that work be a problem?
No. Webspeak is a perfectly good work.
I think you have a talent for it.
Oops, that was meant to say “word”. My cell phone loves to “fix” words into something that’s either close enough or nothing like what I typed, and I don’t always remember to check what’s been mangled.
StClair. I once spoke in shibboleths.
But I got better.
Someone mentioned “Worthless” as a shipname the other day, and gotta say I’m kind of a fan. 😛
Understandable. But it could describe so many ships that it’s not actually useful.
Ruth no! You should’ve communicated your concerns with Jennifer/Billie. That’s what partners do!
Now now, there’s still time for her to do that. Sometimes you need to talk to a third party to get the thoughts out and maybe gain new insight, before you go straight to the source half-cocked. It’s also unhealthy to only talk to your partner about things, after all.
Yeah okay. My train of thought went from “Ruth fearing she might get Jennifer/Billie killed” to “her deciding right then and there to end things with her”.
You’re right, there’s still the possibility for her to still have the talk with her partner. Question is if it’ll truly help their relationship like I hoped, and what will actually cause the breakup.
“I have something good going here… how can I best manage to fuck it up before I might wind up with some undeserved happiness?
This is some good face-drawin’.
A+, gold star.
Hey; we only said we’d die together ONE TIME!
jeez, so dramatic!
Real talk though; this is the mistake that happens so often when dealing with issues like this. You think about what happened before and what may happen because of it, and ignore what you have now and how it could very well be better because of how its going now. Its a viscous cycle.
I can really start to see why Jennibillifer is so angsty about this Hallow of ween.
Relax, Ruth. Stop stressing. Even the alt-text thinks you’re being a murraywart.
Ah, man, Ruth 🙁
…I know shapeshifting irises are a common cartoon affectation, but for some reason in this instance I can’t unsee her eyes as repeatedly rotating 90º, which seems like it would be super painful.
… ohhh.
Maybe we misread this a little bit. It wasn’t that Ruth is burnt out on their dynamic. It’s that Ruth retains this certainty that she’s going to mess things up.
Mind you, the night is still young. Plenty of time for more reasons to surface.
As Marcie from Peanuts once said, “it’s already tomorrow in Australia.”
Unless you’re in Australia. Then it’s already yesterday back here.
Recall that her first reaction to starting to feel better was to distrust that peaceful mood.
And she was right. That peaceful mood led directly to this.
I kinda agree with her. The suicide pact was unhealthy and Billue is still, as then, refusing tenderness and hellbent in staying in an agressive mode.
That’s something you discuss with your partner before going straight into breakup mode.
Billie’s modus operandi for serious discussion (at least when someone else broaches the subject) is to handwave it away with a “yeah, yeah, sure, no problem”, box it up, and ignore it.
Call me crazy, but might this not be something for Ruth to bring up to HER THERAPIST instead of the maybe-least-traumatized teenager in her immediate area?
Sometimes, people ask their friends for advice that’s more immediately pressing. I assume a therapist wouldn’t be super jazzed with her randomly calling/texting outside of office hours.
I get the feeling this is something she’s been thinking about for a while. Plenty of time to bring it up with a professional.
Does Ruth actually go to therapy? I know she had group therapy sessions while in the hospital but she’s rarely mentioned an actual therapist that she’s still seeing. The drugs she’s taking seem to have had more of an impact than anything.
i think a lot about the very early semester 2 strip where walky told booster that all he knows is
… sent that too early sorry. “the therapists here aren’t very good”
(b11/01/herselves)
unfortunately, therapy doesn’t preclude backsliding or relapse, and I also think that generally ruth’s therapist may have been invested in ruth and jennifer’s separation. dorothy, to ruth, would probably feel like a neutral party.
oh no
Time for Dorothy to use her ability to console, calm, cheer and help for Ruth. Make her understand she can be a better person and she’s allowed to be happy. Because I can’t imagine she said to Ruth that she’s right and she has to break up with Billie.
Am I the only one who thinks that she’s not necessarily wrong?
You can’t always YOLO your way through life, specially when neither seem strong enough to stop themselves or the other before things go horribly wrong
Yeah I’m in the same boat. I don’t see this as bad or even unreasonable. It appears to be an incredible sign of growth for Ruth where she now with some help perspective and a clear head how high risk her and Billie are together there is never a guarantee of perfect stability you can’t plan for future relapse trauma or anything of that nature and she already knows they both have issues of codependency and would be willing to spiral together not pull eachother out. So I can’t see this as a bad call even if painful
she’s not wrong at all.
Billie (in the flashback) is shown to want to keep the unhealthy relationship going and as unhealthy as it always was.
ruth told her that she was basically the most important person on earth to her, one level of intensity off of asking for her hand in marriage, and all billie could do was come back with an insult.
hatesex might be fun, but sometimes what you really need is an “i love you”.
I don’t understand why everyone is saying this is unhealthy or bad on Ruth this seems very very positive. Sure it’s a breakup but her reasoning is sound. I started this relationship when we were both in a bad place were doing much better but there’s no guarantee that will continue and we were very close to helping echother die and that means we likely should not be in a relationship with eachother. This seems very reasonable and like an incredibly good sign for Ruth that she is future thinking and realizes risks
Yeah, I agree with you. I think Ruth would be better off in a relationship with lower stakes–a relationship where if she feels suicidal or her partner feels suicidal, they know the other person won’t help them go through with it.
If Ruth were doing this for her OWN mental health, because she’s worried Billie may not be good for her, then I’d agree. There are plenty of reasons she could validly feel that Billie or their past may compromise Ruth’s recovery (esp considering Billie’s apparent lack of commitment to her own recovery, based on their prior interactions and her lack of going to therapy).
But the way she’s phrasing this makes it sound like she just thinks SHE’S not safe/good enough for Billie because what if she slips again and drags Billie down with her.
Which is…not actually healthy at all. Deciding you are not good enough for someone else and that they would be better off without you is kind of textbook “not healthy.” And frankly really unfair to the other person. It assumes a level of control/unequal responsibility over the relationship and is essentially telling the other person “you can’t have your own agency to decide if you should be in this. I’m deciding for you.”
So whether their relationship could ever be healthy or not, whether them being together is the right or wrong thing, if THIS is Ruth’s specific reason for the breakup, and the reason she gave Billie, Billie has EVERY right to be pissed.
And like motorfirebox said, it also does seem like Ruth is terrified of actually being happy, doesn’t trust it will last and is possibly trying to sabotage it by imploding things herself before they go wrong so she can feel like she has some control over the situation. Which, again, not healthy.
Her brain chemistry may be operating at more stable levels now, but she clearly still has A LOT of bad habits and harmful thought patterns to unlearn.
Also arguably, based of what we’ve seen of the present in terms of how things went after this breakup…breaking up with Billie doesn’t actually seem to have helped Ruth stay in a healthy place. She’s drinking again, she’s angry and depressed a lot, and okay maybe that would’ve happened anyway, but I suspect cutting off someone she loves who really truly made her happy right as she was starting to get healthier was probably a major factor in her emotional backslide.
I’m not sure. I agree. Clearly they have issues. But I thikn RUth is right. Hey neither of us is particularly stable. I don’t trust myself yet to be stable and keep us both safe. We were in a mutually destructive relationship and I don’t trust myself to not take you down with me. Or You to be able pull either of us back. SO this feels right. Sure it’s a bit condescending to Billie but Ruth is older and is actively going to treatment so it makes sense she’d see the issues and have to make the call
Yeah I guess phrased the way you phrased it, it sounds better. It’s unclear to me how much of this is supposed to be Ruth actually looking at the situation rationally and thinking she needs to focus on her own mental health alone for BOTH their sakes, or if it’s Ruth putting Billie up on a pedestal/assuming she isn’t good enough for Billie because of their last and because she thinks she will inevitably backslide and drag Billie down with her.
It’s extremely unhealthy in that she’s looking for ways to be depressed again. Which isn’t her fault per se, that’s just some stuff major depressive disorder will train your brain to do, but she’s not seeing nearly as clearly as she thinks she is.
Codependence is ALSO unhealthy, and it’s good that she recognizes that and is in some way looking to address it, but the route she’s taking is like treating your alcoholism with opiates.
and… that would be bad? /s
Ruth’s got a point: a relationship formed on the basis of “if one of us dies, we both die” is HARDLY a good one and it’s very hard to determine how things will go when the both of you are so horribly volatile for various reasons and your only sample size for could-bes are violent, knee-jerk decisions made with extreme emotion and little thought.
I had a friend try to make a suicide pact with me when I was terminally ill (i am not anymore!) and I spent HOURS one day TRYING to convince this person who was PERFECTLY HEALTHY and with a REASONABLY FINE life (not perfect, but within their hands to be better with a FANTASTIC league of supportive friends) that they did not NEED to die just because I was going to. That to die just because someone you knew for a handful of months has to was absolutely nonsense. It is EXHAUSTING. It is PAINFUL.
This person FOUGHT me that they were just gonna do it anyway. Every advice they ever took from me before OR after, they spat in my face and never took it. This was a person I wanted to help and nurture and push towards something better and healthier than putting the onus of their suicide on me during a time that it was inevitable I was going to die, when we hadn’t known each other for more than half a year.
Nah man. Ruth has a completely reasonable argument. Whether or not breaking up is the best course, there is NOTHING more emotionally taxing than a one-sided suicide pact.
i feel really bad for you but the problem was that you were not okay with a dynamic they were trying to force on you, not that they were losing to you at misery poker and didn’t let you make them be heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeAAAAAAAAAAlthy
It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion, and there’s nothing you can do to help out or stop it, so you just watch horrified just waiting for it to end quickly and hope no one gets hurt
Yep. A true rollercoaster of fun…
I can see why Billie’s so pissed off now.
No, that’s Ruth in the first panel.
Yes, but rather than explain things, Ruth is probably going to try to frame the break-up as being for Jennifer’s benefit and/or say that she just doesn’t love her anymore. Which Jennifer would be able to see through which would be why she was telling Ruth to stop lying to her.
Ruth needs a hug. I fear Dotty‘s not up to the level of compassionate clearheadedness required to deal with this.
The “I see why you might feel this way, but it’s not real”. The past was fucked-up, I understand why you fear the future might be, too. But that’s not a reason to stop enjoying the present. That’s not a reason to sabotage the present.
(She’s with Jason now bc she doesn’t care if she fucks up, isn’t she?)
Aw, Ruth… 🙁
I know, this is heartbreaking.
Fun fact: one of the reasons chronic depression is chronic is that even when you’re not feeling depressed, your brain has been trained to look for reasons to feel bad! Isn’t that fun!?
Yep. A true rollercoaster of fun…
mm-hmm.
It’s a sunny day but the coming drama hurricane is inevitable. Leave the danger zone now. Jason is a no drama respite.
I’ll be surprised if this hasn’t been said before but it hasn’t been said by me so I’mma say it anyways. Ruth is definitely doing the right thing for the wrong reason, partly because she’s misidentifying the reason. And I think this comic really helps show that Ruth and Billie/Jennifer (hereafter called Billifer) are looking for different things in their relationship.
The way I read it is that Billifer wants happiness while Ruth wants contentment. “But Andy!” I hear you say, “Aren’t those the same thing? Or close enough as makes no difference?” And no. It’s not. See, happiness is the highs, which means there’s also lows. Whereas contentment is more of a steady “yeah, I’m okay with this” feeling. If we were looking at emotion as a wave, someone seeking happiness would have a high amplitude while someone who’s content would have a low amplitude.
And I think it comes from their backgrounds. Billifer wanted approval and validation in no small part because her parents just aren’t there to give it. So she tries to be cool and popular and fought hard to get herself into that niche, which means she has to shove herself into the box of a Mean Girl/Heathers type that’s solid Teflon. But in reality she’s actually geeky and kinda danger-seeking and she wants those highs and lows and the attention that comes with them. That’s what brought her to Ruth; she got the emotional spikes from their fighting and then when they went from slap-slap to kiss she kept the emotional spikes. It’s why the suicide pact appealed to her and why she had trouble giving up alcohol. All these things helped get her those emotional highs and lows. So then when the relationship stabilizes, she’s still pushing for that by yelling at Ruth. And this works out for why she’s with Asher now (it’s a way into that cool group that validates her while also requiring her to be the solid Teflon above-it-all Heather again) and why she picked a fight with Ruth (she’s not getting those emotional spikes and wants them). Heck, it even plays into the head cheerleader alpha bongo persona; when you’re supposed to be Too Cool for School but you secretly want to help people because you’re actually decent and you also want the emotional spike that you get from it, how do you play it off? “Hey this is my fucking job I’m supposed to take care of shit.”
And then there’s Ruth, who’s a bit odd really. The highs and lows were, for a long time, the only way she could feel. I’m half convinced that’s why she roots for the Leafs: she knows every year they’d give her that emotional spike of utter disappointment and heartbreak. but now that she’s getting treatment, she’s able to recognize that she’s been through all that and it’s not what she wants. She doesn’t want the numbness but she also doesn’t want those wild dangerous spikes. She wants the steady safety and contentment she had with her parents rather than the low of her grandfather. She wants the safety and non-threatening nature of Jason rather than the high and excitement of dating Billifer or taking risks with a new girl. So in the end it’s not just that their relationship started from a toxic place, it’s not just that they’re dangerous for each other. They’re also just plain incompatible because they need different things from their romantic partners.
Hmm.
On one hand, you have a duty to hold yourself to the morals you have. If Ruth feels unable to forgive herself for how far she was willing to sink with Jennifer, then staying in the relationship would both be feeding her highest highs and worsening her lowest lows. It is possible staying in the relationship then would be unhealthy and damaging for her recovery.
On the other hand, you have to consider, is this self-sabotage? Are you not allowing yourself to enjoy the present because you are only thinking of the past or future? A lot of toxic relationships do last a longer time because people are UNWILLING to accept the relationship has to end because you do not agree on Major Compatibility Topic and focus too much on an in the moment happiness. But a relationship that has improved a lot is easy to sabotage if you use the past as an indicator for the future when a lot of things have changed and are being worked on.
It is good to talk it out with someone though because depressed brain can be very convincing, but, a more objective outside eye may see things that you don’t or find logic faults that you can’t see.
… So she broke up with her for completely, 100% reasonable reasons, and now Jennifer is acting like *that* in the present in response?
… I wish I was more surprised
Eh, give this a chance – We don’t know if somebody tried to make a wacky, zany plan that made everything a million times worse
I’m going to guess that Ruth didn’t explain the reason for the break-up like that and that THAT is what Jennifer is mad about.
Hey random life story,
Someone once broke up with me because they knew they had abusive tendencies (disregard for boundaries) and would take advantage of people with low self-esteem and/or bad boundary-setting skills (check and check), and they started noticing that pattern of behaviour towards me in our relationship.
They explained their decision patiently and apologized profusely and did the whole “it’s not you its me” except they meant it. I was still hurt and mad at them for a while, then thought about it, re-read their texts a bunch of times, talked it over with friends and eventually it made sense to me and I admired them for having the courage and honesty to break up.
Crucially, they didn’t break up “for my own good”, they did so because they didn’t want to end up hating themself for betraying their own values.
I’m not sure to what extent this applies here but it feels relevant.
Honestly, good for them for recognising they want to be a better person than that and putting themselves in check. I hope they learned how to do better.
i mean, this was just a few months back actually. i don’t know why i made it sound like it was in the distant past.
but yeah, i hope they do learn to do better, they’re an amazing, brilliant person, and a stellar lay.
we’re not speaking atm (too confusing and unpleasant for both of us, needed a break), but they’re going to therapy and so on, and so am i. hopefully we’ll meet again when we’re all done growing-up =P
…anyway my point was, there may be parallels between my and JenniRuth’s situation. i know i cautiously approve of Ruth’s decision for now.
Then I wish them improvement. Sounds like they’re a good person at heart who learned bad behaviours at some point that they want to stop doing.
And yeah, I can see how that might parallel for you. I also currently think Ruth’s reasons are fair. She can enjoy her relationship and also realise it makes her hate herself because she has a higher moral standard for herself when not in a depression pit.
Thanks for your sweet replies Sam =)
And yeah I see from your own comments that we seem to be on the same page wrt Ruth’s rationale. Let’s see where it goes!
When you love the person you’re with, but recognize that relationship is not the healthiest, for either of you, but you have no exit strategy.
…I have to be honest, I feel like “I am not comfortable dating someone I once was in a suicide pact situation with, even if we are happy right now.” is. A pretty good reason to break up? Like it’s sad! But. Being in a relationship where your past shared behavior and risk of relapse is like. Eating you ALIVE is. Pretty reasonable!
That Jennifer seems to want to have stayed in the suicide pact while Ruth is getting healthier, see my comments during Jennifer’s blow-up right before this conversation, really adds to this. Ruth is getting better while Jennifer has deliberately stalled her own progress and as much as Ruth is focusing on Jennifer in her reasoning here, fear of backsliding is a lot more urgent than “You deal with tomorrow, tomorrow,” when your partner is actively goading you to cut your line in virtually every conversation.
Ruth is the one that’s still drinking. “getting better” is definitely questionable.
We could just be back to “I want you away from me so when I inevitably self-destruct you don’t come with me.” Which is the depression talking, not noble motives.
Whether it was Jennifer doing it before or Ruth now.
Agreeeeed
Their relationship definitely started off unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean it had to stay that way.
It doesn’t have to, and Ruth is doing her best to make it healthy, but Jennifer is the single-most toxic person in the cast and has shown at every turn she’d dump nuclear waste in a kiddie pool if she had a preconception that the kids should be irradiated.
“That’s normal, right?”
When I was depressed and suicidal, I knew that it was a mental illness. Everything I read told me that my brain was lying to me, and that reality wasn’t as bad as I thought it was. Basically, I heard, over and over, “You can’t perceive reality. You can’t trust yourself.” It wasn’t malicious like gaslighting is, but the result was the same for me. I knew I couldn’t trust some of the things I thought and felt, but that didn’t leave me anything to replace it with, so I was just scared and lost. And I didn’t know how to differentiate between the correct and incorrect things my brain told me. Everything I thought, believed, and felt was suspect.
It’s so hard to navigate the world when you can’t trust the person you rely on to explain reality to you. When you are told that you cannot trust yourself over and over, you become afraid of yourself. You’re afraid that you’ll act on something you think is completely legitimate and then it ends up just being your brain lying to you again.
I no longer feel that way, but it lasted for a while after I starting antidepressants. Regaining trust in your brain is a slow process.
Anyway I think that’s kind of what Ruth is feeling right now.
I hate Billie and Ruth so much
This is just heartbreaking all around 🙁
Why are you booing her, she’s right?
also here’s a link to both of their first appearances in this flashback chapter that I feel is relevant with that last panel: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/reaper/
(I have no idea whether I should go with Billie or Jennifer for these flashbacks, so I’m just going with Jennifer because that’s what she is in the tags right now.)
Y’know, I love the relationship these two had, and I was really excited to watch them find a healthier place with each other, but Ruth… has a point here?
Jennifer was all in on the Sexy Lesbian Suicide Pact (having been the one to name it that, even). She’s repeatedly stated that she’s willing to die for Ruth, and during their arguments Ruth even pointed out that Jennifer was willing to die for her, but not live for her. And while we know Ruth’s stable, her first tumble off the wagon after being put on her first antidepressants was in a self-destructive attempt to keep her relationship with Jennifer going. Ruth knows, from her own choices, that both of them would choose to go down in flames together than thrive alone, because they’ve already both done that multiple times.
And god knows that Jennifer — who loves so deeply and so messily as she does, and who’s so certain in her ability to Have Shit on Lock even when she demonstrably doesn’t — isn’t going to make the decision to douse the fire before it hits the gunpowder, so to speak. That’s not who Jennifer’s ever been.
But Ruth? Ruth, who is already deeply aware of her flaws and abusive tendencies? Ruth would absolutely be the one to go “we need to stop this while we’re in a good place, because we won’t be able to stop this when we aren’t.”
Whether or not you think she’s making the healthiest call or not giving herself or Jennifer enough credit or what have you is up to your own interpretation. But I can’t fault Ruth for this conclusion at all, not when I can see the exact dots she’s put together to reach it.
What is today but yesterday’s tomorrow.
Is that a Power Rangers Jungle Fury reference?
SpongeBob
This makes some sense, and I don’t think it’s the best decision, but DAMN do I feel everything Ruth’s giving right now…
Ooooooh, so THAT’S what happened. Ruth read the comments and realized their fucked up lesbian death cult was super toxic. I can’t say that I blame her but I also can’t say that it’s impossible that something good can grow from something very un-good. I’m still on team Rilly/Bluth. I think their shit was fucked but they could have un-fucked it with significant effort. But I also don’t blame anyone who agrees that ending it was the right call.
I guess what I’m saying is, I want to believe, but I am torn.
Yeah…