1. Yes and not overdone. Definitely a lovely moist chewy burger.
2. Power Rangers. Sabertooth tiger was the best.
3. Stardew Valley. I think she’d like the orderliness, the Science Family, and how easy to understand the huans are
1: I like 5 Guys burgers, I typically get them with mayo and hot sauce, sometimes caramelized onions if I’m in the mood for it, also a small Cajun fries
2: The old Digimon anime, also I’d watch the movie literally everyday until the VHS tape broke
3: I don’t know why but I feel like she’d enjoy The Sims
Five Guys for me too. I love the grilled mushrooms (but not onions, grilled or otherwise). And they give you SO MUCH FRIES.
There’s one a couple of blocks from my place. I dare not go there more often.
I have tried 5 Guys here, and was less than impressed. Bun was greasy, and the burger didn’t seem to be any better than you might get on the McDonald’s value menu. (Granted, this is in Canada, so maybe they don’t quite have the same menu or quality control up here as in the U.S.)
It’s probably like any franchise, quality can vary widely between locations, even down to who’s working and what kind of day they’re having. I’m not super keen on 5 Guys TBH, but it’s typically a durn sight better than McDonalds, at least the location near me.
There is a chain here in Ontario, Canada called The Works that sells specialty hamburgers with all sorts of toppings… Mac & Cheese, Peanut Butter, Blue Cheese, Brie, Avacado, pineapple, arugula, onion rings, etc.
1. I prefer chicken/fish sandwiches, I get them from Mcdonalds.
2. I loved the original Pokemon anime and stuff on Animal Planet.
3. Maneater, You get to play a Megalodon, which isnt a dinosaur, but it is from around the same time, and is a very big carnivore. Sure its not accurate and your shark gets superpowers, but I have a feeling she would enjoy playing it and pretending all the people she is eatting as the shark are people who deny dinos exist.
Megalodon didn’t live at the time of the dinosaurs. It lived much later, only just before modern humans. That said, there was a similar giant shark in the Cretaceous called Cretoxyrhina.
Thank you for correcting me, I most likely saw that name, saw that it looked exactly like the Megalodon, and mixed them up. Wouldnt be surprised if the Megalodon was a Direct decedent though.
1: In LA, there’s this lovely chain of burger places called The Habit, and their cheeseburgers are exactly how I love them, completely unhealthy.
They do this great version with avacado and sourdough bread too. After a long trip to another country, years back? First meal I had was one of those, a good, American Cheeseburger…
2: The DCAU shows as a whole, particularly Superman the Animated Series, as well as Batman Beyond. Terry McGinnis needs to be used more, dang it.
3: I don’t know why, but I get this real Stellaris vibe when I think of her.
1.) Fuddruckers. The mass closure of their locations hurt me feel inside; I miss being able to top a 2/3 pound patty with a freaky obscene later of pickle slices.
2.) Um. Geez. So, as an 80’s kid I couldn’t say for sure if it was He-man, Transformers, Voltron, or what.
Oh wow. I haven’t been to a Fuddruckers since before lockdown. LOVE their burgers. I haven’t driven past the location in ages either, so I have no idea if they’re still open or not. Guess I’ll be doing a drive-past next weekend to check!
If they’re gone, it’ll hurt as bad as when the Chevy’s near me closed almost 20 years ago. We used to go there for lunch since it was across the street from the office, or go for drinks after work.
1. Probably Whataburger, even if they’ve discontinued my absolute favorite burger that they once had.
2. When I was really little, I watched a lot of PBS Kids stuff– I really liked Sesame Street. When we got cable (which we won in a raffle) and started having access to Nickelodeon, I was into both The Fairly OddParents and Jimmy Neutron. (SpongeBob was banned.) Around middle school I shifted to Phineas and Ferb.
3. Without involving dinosaurs… my gut instinct is Pokemon for some reason? Although she’d probably be annoyed by its misuse of the term “evolution” to refer to changes undergone by an individual organism, rather than gradual changes in a species as a whole– the same kind of error made by people who say evolution can’t be real because if it were we’d see monkeys turning into humans all the time.
I would imagine she would be more annoyed by the concept that Humans are able to subdue those powerful beasts and send them into battle. I love pokemon but Logic does not exist in that world lol.
1) five guys. great burgers, plus I love that they assume you want nothing on your burger and you tell them to add stuff to it, instead of how most places do it where I have to ask to omit stuff. it’s much nicer to ask for bacon, cheese, BBQ sauce, ketchup and mayo, than it is to ask for no lettuce, no tomato, no onions, no pickles, no mustard, and then worry they have other stuff I’m not aware of that I don’t want either
2) totally spies
3) I’m not super familiar with no man’s sky, but based on my limited understanding of what that game is about, I’ll say that as my answer
Wherever I go for a burger, I usually say “JUST cheese, ketchup and mustard”, just like that, usually there’s no problem except for the unavoidable instances they get the order wrong anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
well sometimes I’ll just say no vegetables, since mustard isn’t the end of the world and I’m fine with most other condiments too, but saying that out loud as a fat girl is kind of embarrassing. honestly most of the time I just order it normal and hope that the lettuce is one big leaf instead of shredded so it’s easy to take off. I just hate that crunch it is the worst texture
My favorite place to get a burger was a bar and grill that no longer exists in a town I left behind 1.5k miles away. *Sigh* tbh I haven’t been to actual restaurants much since moving, so unless I cook it myself, my favorite burger is an ultimate cheeseburger from jack in the box.
2) power rangers
3) I think she’d like stealth games.i picture her being very good at and really enjoying Untitled Goose Game
Untitled Goose Game is an inspired choice for Dina’s favorite game. I think it’d be in character for her to enjoy something where she runs around causing chaos and HOMPKing at people, as dinosaurs were wont to do.
1. Local fish and chip shop. Must have cheese…and then order extra cheese. Oh, and beetroot.
2. Dragon ball Z
3. Dawn of Man, or Warhammer Total War. Hey, if you cant have dinosaurs you can at least have dragons. Although Im now reminded of how badly Joyces story about fire breathing dinosaurs went but…oh well.
1. My local diner. They’re smart too, they pipe the exhaust from the grill directly out onto the street, so walking by you always smell their burgers. It’s the best possible marketing and I’m almost always in some level of craving for one.
2. I don’t know about favorite, but the thing that’s coming first to mind is a cartoon I used to love called The Centurions, which was about a team of folks who wore these suits that specialized…basically mechs could be beamed down from orbit to help them do anything they needed to do. I miss that show, I should see if it’s available anywhere.
3. I agree with Laura about Tetris, and also I think games like Animal Crossing, which specifically have set routines to fulfill.
1) Smoke. Sadly, they went out of business during COVID. Now I guess… Red Robin?
2) Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea
3) Xenogears. Because I love Xenogears and so might she. Oh, and because one of the major villain groups is a thinly veiled expy of the Catholic Church.
1. I don’t eat burgers, but when I was living in New Hampshire there was a place called Local Burger that, aside from a really good crispy chicken sandwich, had chicken fingers breaded with Cap’n Crunch. Delicious.
2. I was big on Batman: The Animated Series.
3. Dina seems like a survival sim kinda person to me. Yes, that includes Ark: Survival Evolved, but I bet she’d play all kindsa titles in that genre. I bet she’d even be disappointed at Fallout 76’s Wastelanders update changing the game so fundamentally. I know I was.
1-Dugg Burger. They dig out parts of the large bun to make room for all the ingredients. Hickory smoked bacon, Fire-roasted peppers, Sauteed mushrooms, Caramelized onions, Dill pickles, Chili lime slaw, Mixed greens, a combination of barbeque sauce and honey mustard, Pepper Jack Cheese, and a generous patty of freshly ground beef. Ideally accompanied by one of their legendary shakes.
2. Micky Mouse Club. Who wasn’t in love with Annette?
3. No video game without dinosaurs would ever be worthy of Dina!
1) I like either carls or fatburger best but in general i will never say no to any burger.
2)Its hard for me to pin down a favorite since i was one of those kids that was primarily babysat by tv but hey arnold and later yu yu hakusho were two of my big ones
3) maybe carmen sandiego?
1 There’s this place where I used to like called Meat Bbq and they had the best burgers. I get mine loaded lettuce onion bacon egg with the in house coffee bbq sauce and aioli cooked at a medium with a side of brisket fires. (Note due to obvious I get this meal at max twice a year)
2 Power Rangers its still a love of mine and most of my usernames reference it
3 I think she’d like nonaction Rougelikes something like Slay the Spire
1. My own home. Nothing compares self-made burgers.
2. Darkwin Duck, Talespin, Dragon Bal (Without Z)
3. Spore. Because causing her own evolution – and blowing up planets.
1) McDonalds or Burger King. I prefer Micky D’s generally, but i’m not fussy. 🙂
2) Favourite show as a “kid” – depends on what age we’re talking. Tweens and up – Grange Hill. Younger childhood – My Little Pony and Disney’s Gummi Bears. 😀
3) For videogames, I think Dina would actually quite enjoy RPGs. I would recommend her the Gaia trilogy from the SNES (Soulblazer, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma) and the PS1 Granstream Saga. 🙂
1) My kitchen, since I no longer live anywhere with a Whataburger. I cook mine smashburger style.
2) Land of the Lost, maybe? I’m old-ish. My being a kid was a long time ago.
3) Eldenring. And she’s really good, which I am not.
1. An American friend made burgers at a barbecue around 6/7 years ago and every burger since has been a disappointment, to the point where I just don’t really eat them anymore.
2. Thomas the Tank Engine, the ones with Ringo Starr narrating.
3. I dunno, Zach-likes maybe, but they seem a bit too obviously sciency.
Burgers: since the Turkish-owned greasy spoon over the bus station in the town centre closed down, I haven’t eaten burgers. After theirs, anything else would be a let down.
Favourite TV show as a child: Doctor Who. (Favourite as an adult: same answer.)
Game: I can picture Dina enjoying Fez – happily exploring all those uninhabited 2/3D levels, figuring out the ancient inscriptions.
1. MorningStar Original Veggie Burger, made at home… but only because I can’t eat beef anymore (lousy virus). Love it with Carolina Reaper Barbecue Sauce, romaine lettuce 🥬 and fresh onion 🧅 and tomato 🍅
2. “Ark-II” is the reason I became an engineer.
3. Good question. Probably “The Sims” due to the level of control available.
1. Cheeseburger with ketchup only! Best around here is at (ironically enough) a place called Double Dogs.
2. Probably Loony Tunes; deciding on favorites is hard but I watched that the most.
3. I think she’d really enjoy survival craft sims! Minecraft is the default assumption, but I like to imagine she’d go through a similar path to enjoying them as me: She’d be at least as disappointed by ARK as I was, but find much more fun options like Conan Exiles, Valheim, or Raft. (I wish I liked minecraft; then I’d be able to find people to play with.)
1. The only place I ever got a burger from in the US was from Modern Love NYC? But otherwise the best I ever got was from the Las Vegan collective kitchen at a grindcore festival. For vegan, rare is rarely an option. I make pretty decent (vegan) burger every now and then.
2. Transformers.
3. online Bagh Ghal, she plays tigers because she likes winning.
1. I don’t eat burgers much, but if I had to choose I’d probably pick Burger King. Though I generally prefer to get chicken nuggets when I go there.
2. Not 100% sure if this was my favorite, but probably Star Trek: Voyager, though I also loved TNG as a kid. I like all the older (pre-Discovery and Picard) Star Trek shows, and I’ve been watching DS9 for the first time for the past few months and really enjoying it.
3. I’m not sure I can answer this one. I imagine if Dina has a favorite video game, it almost certainly has dinosaurs.
1.Hmmm you know I don’t eat burgers much but there was this place just called “burger.” in my college town which had a turkey burger topped with grilled pineapple, teriyaki sauce, and some other stuff I can’t remember – that was really good.
2. Toss-up between Ben 10 (the first one) and Static Shock, I think. Haven’t watched either of those in ages, but they really excited my imagination as a kid.
3. I feel like “has cool dinosaurs” would actually be a very important criterion for Dina when she’s choosing video games to play, but if we’re talking NON-dinosaur games, I can see her really enjoying Factorio. She’s very loyal, ambitious, and analytically minded, so building a massive manufacturing complex/research lab while defending it from endless waves of hostile aliens sounds like exactly her jam.
1) I don’t think anyone beats out my dad’s burgers actually. I like mine a tiny little bit charred, dressed with a healthy coating of bbq, an unhealthy coating of bbq, cheese, pickles, mustard on the top bun, mayo and ketchup on the bottom bun.
2) oh shit, how kid are we talking? I think Digimon? geez my memory ain’t the greatest. uhh, I prob traded digimon for inuyasha, and then inuyasha for fullmetal alchemist? I think by the time I traded fullmetal out, I wouldn’t have counted as a kid anymoer
3) DKC2 because it’s just the best video game ever [/hyperbole] and if she can’t at least appreciate it, then I’m not sure she deserves any of my other recommends
your anime evolution is pretty much exactly most of my anime friends’, except half of us were more pokemon than digimon (and there were a couple with CCS or Sailor Moon before they watched Inuyasha). The friend who introduced me to FMA literally introduced it as “even better than Inuyasha,” and I was like “don’t be silly, there’s nothing you like more than Inuyasha.”
worth mentioning that I was also watching pokemon, sailor moon, and CCS, it’s just none of those were my favs. Inuyasha would have been the first I knew was anime, and yeah the person who started urging me to watch FMA was also the only other person I knew at the time that watched inuyasha, so it seems to be a common pattern
1. Was Fuddruckers until they closed, and 5 guys was a go to when I went to visit my parents in Arizona. Currently my favourite is a mushroom swiss at Fatburger.
2. Good question, I grew up with peasant vision growing up in various remote Canadian air force bases, so usually only 3 channels, and one was in french. I liked Ultraman when I was little and didn’t know any better, Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet were also favourites when I was preschool/early grade school age. I was a huge Monty Python’s Flying Circus fan as a teenager.
3. That is a very interesting question. Maybe Theme Hospital or Dungeon Keeper 2; or for something more current, any of the farming gamealikes. Was going to suggest pokemon, but I am not sure how she would take the “evolution” part of the game.
1. Used to be a great place called Cabin 12, long closed now. Had an amazing one at a place called Laverne’s iirc too. For chains, Triple-Os. Veggie patty with caramelized onions, mushrooms, swiss, but I’m happy to try other things.
2. What was your favorite show as a kid? 📺
Very young – Pokemon
Middle grade – Malcolm in the Middle
Teen – Fullmetal Alchemist
3. I think Dina would like monster hunting games (like Pokemon, Yokai Watch, etc). Actually, I don’t know if she’d LIKE them, but she has a good memory so I think she’d be really good at them. I don’t know how to explain it but I do think she’d like Stardew Valley (I guess because: relaxed, any pace, instructions are clear but there are still lots of surprises)
1. I visited a place in Cape Cod years ago called the Next Door Burger Barn, and it was the only $15 burger I have ever had that was worth the price. So good. Just a regular hamburger, but so good.
2. There was this PBS show called America’s Kids I liked, also anything on Animal Planet
3. I don’t really play video games, but if Dina wants a good fidget activity that allows you to remain quietly in a corner and let people come up to talk if they want to I would happily teach her to crochet.
1. Since I’ve turned vegetarian, I really like getting burgers from a restaurant called “Swing kitchen” (it’s really just a normal restaurant chain/franchise over here, and vegan) or “Peter Pane” (they serve very good meaty and vegetarian burger) – but since they are more on the expensive side of things, and I try to watch my weight, I only go there like 2-5 times a year.
Oh yeah, and I like my burger with cheese, sometimes jalapenos and lots of veggies.
2. Honestly, too much to choose from. I loved the Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, Pokemon, Dragonball + Dragonball Z… I watched too many. Let’s just say “animated ones”. Still know all of the songs as well (in my language, though).
3. Maybe Sims, because she can experiment with human interaction and I believe she might find joy in simply creating characters and letting them interact nearly independently to answer a specific thesis, while she sits in front of the PC making notes for possible changes etc.
3. Tell me what kinds of video games you think Dina would like and why, but your answer CAN’T involve dinosaurs! 😜
Wow it’s a good thing Jennifer had already guessed that or I would have been mad at Sarah for telling her that without Joyce saying it’s ok to tell her
When you find out you’re a neurodivergent and are just beginning to untangle your unique stripes, the idea that other people can know your brain that much better than you do is a toxic pitfall that’s all too easy to fall into. I just hope that Joyce can pull herself out before the voices of others drown out her own!!! 😭😭😭
Last Panel: 😗😗😗 I’m…. not quite sure what to think here.
On one hand, I WAS looking forward to something that can possibly reawaken Jennifer’s inner Billie. That, and it’s also technically good that Joyce is asking for help somehow?
BUT, I just really really really hope she’s not gonna be Sheldon Cooper with this and turn her neurodivergent-self-affirmations into weapons to make unreasonable demands.
😵😵😵
Fuck am I torn. Also I’m bored. Anyone got any Youtube Poops I can watch?
I’ll be honest. I’ve never watched that show, and only saw parts of two scenes when someone else was: One involving a harp and an allusion to 80’s dream sequences, and one involving a rat-infested chair. Don’t ask me how I managed to remember that.
The premise sounded like the sort of picking that I was thoroughly tired of, so I never gave it a chance.
I love SAO abridged as well as Hellsing Ultimate Abridged.
Both are better than the original, though I feel you have to watch the original to fully appreciate the humor.
obviously not a universal, but it certainly helped on my end that the first friends to suggest I might be autistic were a married couple who had both been diagnosed themselves when they were younger
also once I started looking into things more, too much made sense
1. Do you happen to fall into Dina’s demographic / intersectionality? (Just curious)
2. When it came to untangling your unique neurodivergent stripes as an individual, for any given aspect of yourself, how did you go about determining whether it was down to your neurodivergence, just a personal quirk, or something else entirely? Did you have to think of it lots and lots? Are there some aspects of yourself for which you just don’t know?
Asking as a neurodivergent (neurofluid and can flow in and out of the many autism**-type combos) still in the untangling process 🙃
LOL that’s not what I meant, but I see your point. 😛
It’s more that I have defo in the position of feeling vulnerable and tired and so so so FRUSTRATED that no one is LISTENING to me, so much so that I don’t even care if I’m being unreasonable.
But don’t you know she has A New Label now, therefore everyone’s preconceived notions about said label now fit her to a T because she got a “maybe, go talk to a specialist” from a general practitioner?
I mean, if the expectation is that the comment section is going to be toxic and heated… then it sounds like people need to cool their jets. Or I’m going to have to stay away from it, because it’s no longer chill.
There’s some movie or other in which the protagonist has to keep a vehicle moving over a certain speed or else the vehicle will explode. This website is like that, except with scathing moral condemnation and mistaken intentions. Expressing a desire for even slightly less intensity and vitriol? That’s actually worse than participating.
Jennifer can handle nerds because they were her community for most of her growing up. She likely clocked Joyce as appearing like someone with a neurodivergence because she’s already spent a fair amount of time around people on the spectrum. And underneath it all, has no real problem with it.
…and to think, at the beginning of the school year, Joyce might have worn her special interests as a badge of pride (e.g. “Dexter Superfan,” “Bible geek,” “Word nerd,” “Jesus freak,” etc.).
Joyce still can. She doesn’t have to be ashamed of her encyclopedic knowledge of things that interest her, regardless of why they interest her.
Folks used to tell me that talking to me was like talking to an encyclopedia, or to a dictionary. I carefully cultivated a southern accent and copied local dialect to allay those barriers. But I was never embarrassed about it. It was different, that’s all it was. Not good, not bad. Just unique.
Thank you for writing this all Laura, it means so much! 🥹🥹🥹
Not all of what neurodivergence could entail for any individual is bad. I don’t want to think of neurodivergent stripes being “incorrect”, just different. It means that you have to do a few things differently.
When it comes to any aspect of myself, I don’t want to automatically confirm or deny that it’s down to my neurodivergence (neuro-fluid / can flow into and out of the MANY autism**-type combos).
Nobody knows my own brain better than I do. Sometimes I don’t even know if any given aspect of myself is down to my neurodivergence. And I just need to gather more evidence, think about it lots and lots. Maybe it’s down to neither neurodivergence or personality, but something else entirely, something…. out of this world. Maybe I’ll never know for any given aspect, and that’s OK.
The point is we get to choose which stripes we want to wear, and how we want show our unique, beautiful selves to the world. And that is good.
Oh, and apparently, it was old-Billie’s “mission to aid the socially-impaired.” Sure, that was a pompous and condescending way to consider her closest lifelong friendships (e.g., with Walky) but Joyce seemed enthusiastic about it: “Well, that’s definitely me!”
!!! My nickname in primary school was “the walking encyclopedia” because my dad would always greet me with “whaddaya know” so I thought sharing snippets of “did you know” was the standard way of greeting people.
“How are you, Charlie”
“Did you know that there are two words that rhyme with purple- hirple and kerple. To hirple means to limp painfully, and kerple is a part of a saddle!”
I think Joyce might be taking this whole autism thing a little too far. She hasn’t even been diagnosed yet. I’d hardly call Jennifer’s identity an unscheduled change in routine. Joyce was the first person to state Jennifer should be called what she wants to be called.
I think Joyce has been going through a lot of heavy change shit back to back to back lately, and the “maybe you’re Autistic” bombshell sent her scrambling a bit. It’s important to keep in mind that it’s not *just* the Autistic issues that are hitting her right now, they’re just the biggest weight on her mind at the moment.
If she were going to be upset by the official diagnosis, I can’t imagine that a professional clocking her as potentially autistic with 15 minutes of meeting her would be any less upsetting…. I’m sure, based on her upbringing, that she see this as a condemnation of her social skills (and I doubt the consistent “huh, yeah, I see it” reaction from everyone else is helping), so I wouldn’t be surprised if her though process is “my social skills are so bad that a professional diagnosed them as *clinically* bad within 15 minutes.”
On the surface she looks like she’s taking it too far. But looking at how the last in-comic year has gone and how much she’s changed, whether voluntarily or not, the freakout is reasonably realistic. I spent my 20s denying the fact that I might be on the spectrum because “there’s no way, I don’t fit the profile of someone with ADHD” and whatnot, despite a couple people pointing it out and giving me a couple books about it. But, looking back now with more knowledge on ADHD, autism, and the spectrum, a -lot- of stuff about my personality, levels of motivation, jobs/career path, areas of interest and depth of them, and whatnot, makes way too much sense when compared to attributes of neurodivergency. That said, I haven’t been formally evaluated, but it wouldn’t surprise me if I’m on the spectrum, something I spent almost a decade actively denying and refusing to admit the possibility of.
Just wanted to pop in with a quick note: ADHD is often compared to autism, but it’s not considered on the same spectrum. If you’re talking about neurodivergency in general, sure, yeah, it’s a spectrum of varied experiences! But ‘the spectrum’ usually makes people think of the autistic spectrum, so I wanted to clarify that ADHD isn’t technically on it. At least, not with our current understanding.
(I hope this doesn’t come off as rude aaaaa? I agree with the rest of your comment, I just wanted to comment as someone who a. was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid and b. has an autistic husband.)
Just reminds me, my brother and I are ADHD and he had a running theory that, because of the overlap in symptoms and comorbidity, ADHD is just another part of the autism spectrum, same way Asperger’s used to be considered a separate diagnosis
Well i ain’t no big city autism expert but pretty much every diagnosis has subtypes. Dyslexia is just specific learning disorder with difficulties in reading. ADHD has ADHD inattentive type (formerly known as add), ADHD hyperactive/impulsive type, ADHD combination type, etc. So i could totally see there being subtypes
Ehhh I dunno if I’d classify them as the same? Or, let me rephrase that: I don’t know if it would be useful to have that be the structure of the official diagnoses. Even when I was more obviously ADHD as a kid (I ticked literally all the diagnostic boxes), I don’t think I would have personally related to what a lot of what my autistic husband was like at the same age. But who knows, that was a long time ago and everyone’s experiences are different haha.
I AM very pro-“fuck labels and embrace similarities in experiences”, though! And yeah, that includes when otherwise neurotypical people stim and stuff. I don’t like the idea of gatekeeping useful words, and brains are so complicated I fully believe we’re not at a point yet where we can say with 100% certainty we know what’s going on in there.
I think her reacting to the initial supposition and referral as if it were an official diagnosis is pretty in line with how Joyce feels about authority figures.
This combined with her evident views on neurodivergents and resultant beliefs on what she’s capable of only means she’s unlikely to give up her lenience on authority figures any time soon.
Well, hyperfixating on special interests depending on what it is might seem a bit nerdy to others surface level, but i’d love to see portrayals of an ‘autistic jock’ lol
I mean, there’s autistic professional athletes out there. A mild google search brought up Jim Eisenreich, who has Tourette Syndrome but didn’t let that stop him from putting together a 15 year career in Major League Baseball, playing in over 1,400 games over his career.
And it would not at all surprise me if a number of current professional athletes were autistic but undiagnosed, because they’re successful and skilled and these are boats that do not need rocking. Doubly so given the state of mental healthcare in professional sports, which is… well, its improving, but still not in a great place overall…
Oh, and Jet Li’s character in “Unleashed,” also called “Danny the Dog” in some releases. Not really autism — more just extreme PTSD. But he’s definitely presented as having a very different way of being in the world. And he is an EXTREME. JOCK.
Well, he’s not quite a jock, but my favorite super-powered neurodivergent in anime has got to be L from Death Note. Guy’s got wits that are sharper than blades 😈
I mean really liking and knowing a lot about a thing makes you a nerd in that thing. Jocks are sports nerds. Fashionistas are fashion and makeup nerds. Motorheads are car nerds. Not being a nerd in something just means you don’t have hobbies. So by that logic, if you have a special interest or hyper fixation (rn mine is clone wars era star wars), you’re a nerd in that thing
If you’re a piece of delicious tart lumpy strawberry or grape candy, you are also a nerd
No i don’t acknowledge the orange and green ones. Assuming those were real and not a fever dream
It’s a heavily overlapping Venn diagram. “Nerds” is a flexible enough word that I think it’s actually fair for Jennifer to lump “people who are better with their special interest than with people” there.
Sure, autistic people are more diverse than that, but I can easily see how her personal experiences would lead to this generalization.
Just wanted to say I’m with you here. That’s one HELL of an assumption Billiefer is making… but given how she’s talked about nerds in the past and vehemently denied being one herself, it’s not surprising.
I think by “nerds” Jennifer just means smart people who like to pursue their own interests. Sure, not all people with autism and other spectrum conditions fit that stereotype, but some do. And Joyce is smart. And she takes her interests to extreme levels (e.g. worldbuilding her comic strip). Those are GOOD traits; and they’re also “nerdy” in the best sense of that word. And they may describe some of the traits that Dr. Kaur thought might fit with a particular diagnosis. I don’t think Jennifer is using “nerd” as an insult here.
…Certainly, I never took it as one.
Huh. Interesting. Meanwhile, I’ve always taken Billie/Jennifer’s use of the word ‘nerd’ as inherently insulting (or at least meant to be derogatory, I’m very difficult to actually insult LOL).
I interpreted that statement as a reaction to Sarah’s comment that she should only bother herself with cheerleader-types, rather than having anything to do with autism. Like, she has a history of seeing people as either cool or nerd.
I think in this context “Nerds” relates to not being a cheerleader. Still offensive as Jennifer still needs to build a hierarchy in her social group, but I didn’t read that comment as related to the potential diagnosis.
So Jennifer just…immediately guesses Joyce’s not-yet-a-diagnosis?
Why is everyone being so *exceptionally* mean and insensitive to each other recently?
Like, I get that a lot of plot threads got tied up in the Shitty Dads arc so we have to seed some new ones…but it just feels like there’s been constant upheaval and setup with no payoff for such a long time. We’re not stopping to process any of this shit, just pushing the characters along…sometimes into dynamics or conversations that don’t feel organic.
I think it’s weird that after 10 years of the comic not even hinting that it might be more than a minor personality quirk, suddenly every character is immediately clued into it, first guess.
This storyline caught me by surprise, which isn’t a bad thing on its own. But I do not feel like there’s been much in the way of foreshadowing or groundwork laid to tackle this concept in the comic, and it feels like all of that foundational stuff is now being fast-tracked to get to where the story needs it to be.
It’s already felt like all the characters have changed drastically in the last few months of strips, getting much, much snippier and insensitive with each other, and this story beat with Joyce’s not-yet-a-diagnosis feels like the biggest curveball so far, with none of the years-long context that’s been built up for something like, say, Joyce’s Fundigelical upbringing or Becky’s purity culture hangups.
I certainly don’t mean to criticize the subject matter. It just doesn’t feel like I’ve been set up as a reader to follow everything that’s coming at us – and things are changing very quickly.
That’s the really weird thing, because the Dorothy signals were there at least as clear as Joyce’s, but somehow everyone decided to ignore them until Willis decided is time to make some things more explicit.
I think part of it is because Dorothy is pretty high-functioning, but also because a lot of her ‘signals’ are more common. High pressure on oneself, wanting to succeed, just enjoys spreadsheets and organization, all of that can easily explain any of Dorothy’s quirks.
It doesn’t quite feel like Dorothy’s there, but it’s possible that the end goal isn’t to reveal Dorothy as autistic, but more to expose her subconscious prejudice against it as a ‘flaw’ in her ‘perfect’ image.
Agreed a little bit. Characters hearing the referral and going “oh, that makes sense” is reasonable, but Jennifer apparently hasn’t heard and just jumped right to it anyway. Has she thought that for awhile? Why not mention it? Why mention it now?
10 years ago autism had a worse rep than it does now. The sliding present means the background knowledge of the whole cast has changed. It is jarring, because they were always like this now, but they were always like something else a few months ago, story time.
I think you got it. Society’s understanding of the spectrum has evolved – I mean, ten years ago the label Asperger’s was still in use by a lot of people, not just those out of the loop.
Don’t get me wrong, like Jon above I also had a moment of “huh, they all just know what that is? with relatively little judgment???” But what you said is probably the real answer.
I hadn’t thought about that before but it makes a lot of sense. I guess all slow moving comics have that duality. Or the opposite in the case of 9 chickweed lane…
Yeahh no one who gets *as* paralyzed at touching food as Joyce does has it as just a minor personality quirk. It’s not guaranteed autism but, its something diverging neurologically
I think they’re frustrated with various things and there’s a lot of baggage. It has been pretty tense lately, though, even for Sarah and some others who are always a bit bristly.
On Jennifer guessing it, I think she was likely able to pick it up from the context, plus there’ve been signs. Not wanting her foods to touch, for instance, stuff Jennifer’s seen over time. Sarah’s phrasing of clocking also probably isn’t something she’d use if it was like, say, a hernia or something physical.
But Jennifer is “just” a student, and not even one that is in a medical or science field. And since she probably gravitates towards the popular kids in class, you wouldn’t expect many of them to be on the autism spectrum.
Even if she recognized little signs (like “food can’t touch”) as unusual, many people wouldn’t expect her to know enough about autism to make the connection.
And not just make the connection, but be right that this was what the doctor clocked.
Imagine how we’d feel about this if the doctor had picked up on something else and this was the first time anyone had every suggested autism in Joyce’s presence?
No but most of the comments here are probably older than Jennifer. Plus the issue has been discussed about Dina before so we at least have a little more background.
Yeah, especially since Jennifer has been shown to have pretty significant blind spots when it comes to her insight. Like, it does feel a little odd for her to believe bisexuality isn’t real or be utterly convinced Sal is Amazi-girl, but understand autism well enough to pinpoint Joyce as having it.
I mean…not really. Jens what, 19? She’s probably on Twitter and TikTok. Learning about ND and self diagnosis is all the rage rn, to some good and bad effects. Autistic people have more of a platform than ever right now to speak out to the layman about their experiences. And like, half your (general you) favorite creators are autistic and you’re probably following them on some social media where they talk about it. A group of gen z first and second year college kids having a passing knowledge of autism enough to put the pieces together when their friend might have it is just, kind of expected rn. Hell i was more surprised that Dorothy had to Google to find out about things like masking, i thought everyone in our age group knew about that stuff by now.
I mean fuck nerdy billifers probably secretly on discord bc she’s a nerd ass 19 year old and like, every friend you make on discord has *something*. A couple weeks ago i passively helped my friend realize she probably has dyscalculia bc she described things that sounded like my symptoms. My LD boyfriend (also discord) is in the process of seeing specialists for an ADHD diagnosis bc we were all pointing out hes like the poster boy for it, and his dad always jokes the whole family is probably autistic.
Sure, it’s perfectly reasonable that Jennifer (or anyone else) had suspicions, but it’s weird to me that no ever mentioned it before, but that as soon as Sarah mentioned the doctor noticing something she goes right to autism. I mean, it works because that is what the doctor saw, but it would be awkward as hell if the doctor had noticed something else concerning.
Man this is tough. Jennifer has clearly made a point that Billie is not who she is anymore so she shouldn’t need to compromise that but I want her and Joyce to connect here.
And I’m going to get ahead of this right now: My stance stays that if someone says they don’t want to be called by a name you should respect that. If Joyce tomorrow decides she can’t talk to Jennifer without her being Billie and Jennifer doesn’t compromise on that then that is her prerogative.
I would hope that’s not where we are heading but I think it’s silly for me to be hopeful.
I wonder if this might be a segue into the next chapter, which is supposedly a flashback to Halloween if Joyce asks Jennifer what exactly made her decide to change so much
At the very least it’s not what Joyce needs in this moment. I’m interested to see how Jennifer reacts to this in tomorrow’s strip given how firm she’s been about no longer being that person anymore.
Joyce doesn’t get to make that call. I think the comments section has largely agreed deadnaming is wrong v.v trans people but the same courtesy is not extended her and I guess it’s because we think it’s okay to shit on people we don’t like but it doesn’t have to be a gender expression situation. I have friends who don’t like going by their birth name because they’re named after a parent or relative who is a treacherous piece of shit. You don’t get to decide “well that reason is not enough for me to not call you by your preferred name”
“but it doesn’t have to be a gender expression situation”
No shit Sherlock–that’s why I give a different example.
The entire point was you don’t get to tell someone that what they want to be called by is invalid, whether is about gender affirmation, personal history or a choice that person made. It’s about respect. If you tell me your name is Zee I don’t get to say nah I think you’re more of a Felicia. Your said your name is Zee your name is zee
Jennifer says she’s Jennifer. She’s Jennifer. This is not hard.
That’s not whats happening though. My nickname is zee. My name is Zoë. An actual comparison would be if i changed my screen name to Zoë and said ay y’all I’m going by zoë now. And commenters kept calling me zee because that’s what they’ve known me as this entire time. Which, idk you can have your opinions on that, i couldn’t give two shits. You can have opinions on people calling her Billie over Jennifer or whatever but like, you can’t compare it to deadnaming. That’s a massive false equivalence. Even if you say “it doesn’t have to be a gender identity thing”, you’re still comparing the two.
Alsoooo Billie is a fictional character. If the characters in the story insist on ignoring her preferred name, sure whatever, that’s dickish. But she’s not real. She’s not plural or trans. Commenters using her old nickname doesn’t actually have any effect on anything the way, say, deadnaming Jocelyn or insisting on calling amazi-girl amber would. “Disliking an old nickname” isn’t such a protected class that it would be morally questionable so use the incorrect name even for a fictional character.
I’m gonna call her Billie because she’s not real and it doesn’t matter. If she were real, I’d call her Jennifer because she’d be a real human being with feelings.
That’s not the same though. This is me knowing you were Zoe for our entire interaction and then you, randomly to me, decide to go by any other name. I don’t get to say that’s not valid and continue to call you Zoe if you’ve told me to call you something else. It doesn’t matter why you want to be called something different. That’s your name and that’s your right to tell people what you want to be called. The reason for the name change does not matter from my end. My responsibility is to respect the person who has asked me to call them by a different name. That is literally it. Why is it that hard to extend common decency here
So, let’s summarize: Joyce had NOT told Sarah that she didn’t want company, despite what people were saying to defend Sarah.
Specifically the person who said that the existence of telephones means that we can assume Joyce didn’t want Jennifer’s presence, was just proven wrong.
Yesterday’s Sarah remains an asshole, and today’s Sarah isn’t that much better as she’s still arguing with Joyce over this and trying to control her interactions with other people.
It’s really sinking in for me just how much the release schedule impacts our experience of the events in the comic. The span of in-comic time between yesterday’s Sarah and today’s Sarah is, what, 15-30 seconds? Maybe a minute, tops?
Like, when any of us out here in meatspace has a bad day, we’re cranky for a few hours, and maybe we even snap at our loved ones, but everyone else is already dealing with their own things and we can all go to bed and try again tomorrow. When a character is having a bad day, those of us on the drip-feed see them with that attitude for the span of weeks, maybe months.
I bet the conflict is going to make a lot more sense re-reading this arc in an archive binge.
Fingers crossed. These past weeks have been the first time in over half a decade that I haven’t been all that excited to check the update every night before bed.
Yeah, I think the timeframe has a huge impact on how people perceive it. In a bunch of days’ comment section, a whole lot of the discussion is speculation about what’s going to happen in the next moment and anticipation of reactions. A lot of folks’ reactions to recent trends in characterization are still kind of limited to brief interactions that aren’t necessarily a perfect reflection of all parts of that character.
I started reading a couple years ago and once I was caught up, I was genuinely shocked by the vitriol that the comments have for these characters for what to them is just a couple seconds out of their lives. Like I get WHY, but there’s no need for us to be so harshly scrutinous.
Yeah, I had the exact same experience catching up a few months ago. It’s genuinley fascinating how getting a comic a day makes people latch on really hard to offhanded jokes in the comic and minor interactions.
So many of these small character interactions wash over you like water when you read the comic like, as an actual sequential story.
Sarah’s being overly harsh, yes, but it’s making me wonder if this is more fallout from halloween? Like, did Billie back slide after the Ruth only to then distance herself from everyone? It feels like we’re missing context. I know Billie and Sarah were never buddies exactly, but I don’t think Sarah was this hostile before? Heck, they bonded once over pranking walky and Dorothy…
You’d be annoyed too if someone said something to the point of “spoiler, I’m proven right tomorrow, I know this via patreon”, in defense of their insane argument, and it wasn’t even true.
Like I said before, I’m not playing this stupid game. Your bizarre interpretation of somebody else’s reply doesn’t give you the right to act like a fucking child when it doesn’t line up with reality. Grow the fuck up.
The fact that you’re carrying an argument over from yesterday unprompted is absolutely wild in how petty it is.
When the comments section was bothering me to the point of affecting my level of happiness, I disengaged for a while. I think you should consider doing the same, this isn’t good for anyone.
I am agreeing with the comments from previous days in that it seems after the time-skip nearly all the characters seem to have taken on a new level of meaness and cruelty and nearly all the positive character development seems to have vanished.
Sarah seems outright happy in the third panel at the idea of throwing out Billie
I mean it’s true, but Sarah was never that great a person. She’s a self labelled misanthrope. She knows she’s an asshole and openly embraces it because she doesn’t like interacting with people with only a few exceptions. Jennifer is not one of those exceptions.
Agreed; I seriously do not understand where all of the in-universe negativity is coming from lately. Everybody has been shitty to everybody, rarely with any significant reason to be. Becky & Joyce’s argument about religion made sense, at least…but this? Sarah being shitty to Dorothy a few days ago (with some pretty offensive cracks about autism sprinkled throughout) is another one that just does not track for me on any level.
Who are these people and why are they all actively trying to hurt each other?
I think some people might need to go back and read some Sarah centric strips cause this attitude is not a change for her. I think people are getting a bit confused. Dorothy is not Sarah’s friend. Jennifer is not Sarah’s friend. In fact, you could argue Sarah probably really dislikes Jennifer cause of interactions like this.
So of course, she’s gonna be an asshole to her. Sarah only really has two friends. Dina and Joyce, the rest are people she tolerates because her friends hang out with them. Even Becky isn’t someone she’d elect to spend a casual lunch with by choice. Sarah’s comments do have a little more bite, but she is not suddenly an asshole. She’s always been one.
As a fellow asshole speaking on Sarah’s behalf, I feel like Sarah has a curmudgeonly “acquaintance” level of friendship with Dotty, and clearly at least values Becky for what she brings to Dina and Joyce as a lover/friend or she wouldn’t have put any effort into getting Joyce to try and mend fences,
however, goddamn do I feel foolish for ever thinking Sarah and Jennifer had a good relationship that soured over Halloween lmao. No, no, this is just Sarah has much less tolerance for someone she has always despised.
Yeah nah, the only positive interaction Sarah and Jennifer have had was when they worked together to turn a hose on Dorothy and Walky. And even that was precluded by ‘that was almost a nice thing you said about me.’ ‘you take that back.’
It makes sense, she has an extremely antagonistic relationship to her, a very protective one with joyce, and jennifer just implied she clearly does not have anything nuanced to bring to this situation (in her eyes, at least)
Meh, like, barely. Joyce is a bit more abrasive at times for obvious reasons. Sarah’s just being Sarah, maybe a little overbearing at times. Walkys Walky, Dina just has more of an active role, Becky’s being a bit more dickish but i think that’s more to do with she’s in a state of stability rn vs constantly being in danger since her introduction, meaning her trauma responses and coping mechanisms are, kind of inappropriate for the situation but you can’t just. Stop having coping mechanisms. That’s not how that works. She needs to talk to Leslie. Amber’s worse but… Okay well I’m not gonna comment on amber too much given I’m negatively biased, i never liked her. Sal’s definitely better, she’s way healthier. She’s no longer codependent on marcy, she’s in rollerderby which is social and a healthy outlet, she has her adorable relationship with Danny, a decent relationship with walky. And a better relationship with her hair. Billies like, better in behavior but the whole Jennifer persona is annoying personally, but that’s not really a failing or anything. The thing with Ruth and daisy is just, classic Billie. No better or worse than something she’d do before. Danny’s been a sweetheart, Ethan is a special case, Ruth’s been off because of the breakup but still better than where she started. Jason’s, hotter at least. Joe is an objective improvement. Dorothy probably has the strongest argument for some character degradation, she has been weird but i don’t doubt it’ll be addressed.
I think people are being a bit rose tinted with their view of season one, the characters were always pretty snippy with each other.
So I don’t think anyone in Joyce’s social circle is able to “handle this” other then provide some sort of emotional support which so far they been really zero for three (i mean two tried and i dont really they’re doing a good job handling all the stress and pain Joyce is feeling not even offering to give or get her some Midol) i also say three beacuse i think cause its been Sarah Dotty Dina I’m not counting Carla or Ruth beqcuse the haven’t interacted directly with Joyce. so hopefully Jennifer or Billie can at least do the bare minmum here.
Going back and seeing their early interactions, and man Sarah as ALWAYS been incredibly rude and judgmental to Billie for no reason other than she decided Billie is too much of a sexually free party girl. Now I’m wondering how Sarah is any different from Mary; she interacts with Billie negatively because she has decided drinking and sex are bad. Meanwhile Billie did nothing but friendly overtures. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/bridges/
You don’t think this, which was part of their first direct interaction, reminded Sarah at all of Dana, whose problems nearly derailed Sarah’s chances of higher education?
I think your reading is incredibly uncharitable. Sarah has a history of pushing people away, especially early in their interactions, and we’ve only gotten little glimpses as to why. I’m not saying Sarah is behaving in the best way, but in the early days of their interactions, Billie was working very hard to establish herself as a party girl and continued to act in ways that were destructive not just for her, but also the people around her for as long as she lived next door, and those behaviors played a large part in why she no longer lives next door to Sarah and Joyce.
Despite Jennifer’s insistence that she’s reinvented herself, that’s hardly ever how people actually work. Change happens slowly and with a lot of work, and it’s not reasonable to ask that people pretend that the person you were at least a month or so ago and at most maybe three or four just doesn’t exist anymore and she should be treated as if she was Better. That has to be earned.
One can disapprove of the party life and distance themselves from a party girl without saying “blegh” to her face or saying “I don’t care if SHE comes home drunk, arrested and pregnant” right in front of her.
If Sarah doesn’t bother to hide her animosity from people she disapproves, what makes her so different from Mary? They have different motivations yes, but Mary also loudly announces who she disproves of and why, often right in front of that person.
huh? what’s the different reason now? I still say that Sarah is being awfully judgmental of Billie for her sexuality AND party habits. What goalposts have I moved?
I think there is a bit of a difference, and the nuance is this:
Sarah is only at the university thanks to a scholarship, and she’s been consistently eager to avoid any potential legal trouble. Not to mention she’s Black, so if anything does go wrong she’s likely to get punished harder than her peers. (I’m not Black myself, but I AM very visibly queer and am always cognizant of how authorities would treat that.)
Alcohol or other drugs being in your dorm room is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL in a lot of colleges, and sometimes it doesn’t even matter if you were in on it. So, Billie instantly asking where to find the ~hot party action~ would be a massive red flag to her. Sarah had no reason to believe Billie wouldn’t be willing to rope Joyce or even Sarah herself into something illegal and college career-ending. This is probably why she preemptively got the college involved in regards to her ex-roommate too – turning her in likely protected Sarah from being considered complicit in it.
To summarize, I think Sarah’s issues are less moral preachiness like Mary (whose ideology is based solely on theoretical virtue), and instead entirely based on pragmatic reality (Sarah’s perception of it, at least).
I hope this makes sense…? I’m just very aware of how this can go because both my husband and I almost got in trouble in college because of roommates bringing alcohol into our rooms – in one case without even asking permission! – at a zero tolerance school. Some schools DO NOT care and WILL kick you out no questions asked. :C
And to clarify about myself: by ‘visibly queer’ I mean I have obvious boobs and a beard. There is no world in which someone wouldn’t clock me or at least be suspicious haha.
So I think about optics… a lot. Is that fair? Obviously not. ;~; But it is what it is.
I’ll say Doki, you make some very good points here.
Points that reflect an unfortunate reality. And one that has more than enough statistics to back it up. For instance, blacks and other minorities use cannabis just as much as whites do, but are more than 4x more likely to get arrested for it. In fact its very prohibition and accompanying propaganda were pushed for the sole purpose of disproportionate enforcement on disadvantaged groups in the first place.
Sorry if that’s a little bit tangential, just wanted to reinforce the important details you noted. Between what Sarah, Sal and Dina had to put up with, one of my favorite things about this comic is the open and honest exploration and subsequent discussion of systematic bigotry.
And yeah. I think this is a nuance that’s easy to overlook, but very relevant to some people’s lives. (Namely, people who can’t ‘pass’ as white, cishet, and/or neurotypical.) And I know Sarah tends to be grumpy and standoffish in general, but… giving her the benefit of the doubt, I think that’s what’s going on with her? At least, I think it’s one of the factors she has to consider that other characters may not have to. :C
(Also, I accidentally flagged your comment dskfjsdjfffff. Sorry about that!)
Truly, “I don’t like you” is just the same as “your existence is invalid, you abomination, and you’ll suffer for eternity, but before that I’ll do my best to make sure you have as few rights as possible”. There is no difference between them.
If the worst thing about Mary was that she “loudly announces who she disproves of and why, often right in front of that person” rather than that she snoops and saves up information to blackmail suicidally depressed people, then you’d be right.
See, i feel like those early interactions are only about billie on the surface. I think that for Sarah, at that time, billie was the stand in for the “college party culture” she didn’t want her new roommate to fall into after the whole situation with Dana and how drugs played into it.
Jennifer didn’t “take” Joyce to a party. Dorothy and Joyce went to a party so Dorothy could interview Roz about her dorm room sex tape (who made Dorothy attending said party the precondition of the interview), Jennifer overheard, and tagged along. Joyce would have been there whether Jennifer was or not, and there was no implicit understanding that Jennifer was responsible for Joyce’s safety. (Not that I blame Dorothy for Joyce subsequently being targeted and assaulted by an attempted rapist…but…if anyone was implicitly in charge of looking after the very naive and inexperienced home-schooler at her first college party with booze, it was Dorothy.)
In the most charitable possible reading (thus at best), the “I speak nerd” could be interpreted as being in opposition with “stacking miniskirted girls into a pyramid”, as opposed to being directly intentionally connected to autism.
I’m trying to at least acknowledge more generous readings, because that just…doesn’t happen a lot in these comments sections.
Every few days a new character has to be the worst person who ever lived based on shaky reasons or the whole comments section will explode into a giant ball of nuclear fire.
Tbh, as an autistic, I’ll say given how the Venn diagram of social stereotypes of autistic people and social stereotypes of nerds resembles a circle, she’s really just saying the quiet part of social bias against autistic people out loud.
And, tbh, give me a dozen Jennifers who parrot social stigma but when the chips are down are supportive and caring (if abrasive) over a Raidah who cloaks her bias in a veneer of condescending fake kindness like I can’t tell she’s speaking to me like I’m 5 and cares more about the appearance of being caring and considerate than actually being caring and considerate.
Not to say that what Jennifer’s doing is necessarily great, but more that I don’t think Jennifer intends the level of malice being attributed to her. I tend to watch people’s actions more than their words – and Jennifer’s actions have been supportive this story arc.
I want to politely disagree about the Venn Diagram part.
In terms of the stereotypes thay actively guide people’s thinking in the world at large, the nerd circle is a LOT broader than the autistic** circle, or the autistic** circle is much more narrow with very harmful stereotypes of mental “illness” mixed in.
Being a nerd is one thing. But I learned the hard way that in the world at large, disclosing of autism** leads to especially horrible treatment they don’t dish out to just ANY “nerd”.
** definitions, connotations and dangerous or even violent prejudices towards this word/concept will vary depending on who you talk to and where you live. Evoke and identify with it at your own risk.
I 100% agree with you! Thank you for bringing this up. I too was a bit uncomfortable with the autistic = nerd thing. I understand some people may be comfortable conflating them, but I’m… not. So again, thank you for being the person to actually say this. ;w;
‘Nerd’ used to be far more of an insult. But… acceptance of geeky people has gotten significantly better as more ‘nerdy’ activities are considered mainstream (and the massive popularity of properties like Marvel, Skyrim, and Game Of Thrones only that). Autistic acceptance, unfortunately, still lags far behind. ;~;
I feel the need to clarify that I have a nerdy autistic husband, so I’m fine with both of these things LOL. (And I’m a different flavor of non-neurotypical myself1) I just don’t think it’s productive or helpful to the real people in both of those categories to buy into the stereotypes, even in a lighthearted way. No offense meant to anyone in this comment thread, though, I promise!
Predictably, some people are being judgmental toward Joyce over today’s punchline even though it’s clearly not being meant seriously either by the story or by in-universe character
This comment section demonstrably cannot have nice things
I think people are misunderstanding Joyce’s request, she doesn’t give a slight fuck what Jennifer calls herself but Jennifer is a much bigger conga now than she was then mad I think Joyce is saying she wants her to act like her old self again
On the topic of changes that we can control, changes we can’t, and accepting loss as we grow older and our bodies and relationships change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfyP5zbQmc
“Animal,” by the incomparable Jean Rohe.
I mean, I know it was no news to anyone that Sarah’s insufferable and antagonistic for barely any reason at all, but the way here that she’s not even asking for Joyce’s opinion on Jennifer being there and still arguing with her when she (potentially) was in favour, just colours her as not “protective”, but just as controlling. She is not being a good friend here, she’s pretty much just trying to use Joyce’s current condition as an excuse to be mean to someone who’s trying to actually help her. Just add religious extremism and she’s as bad as Mary.
Okay, in Sarah’s defense there, Dorothy had been dropping some very heavy hints at having a rope-and-trains kink, but since the dialogue in those four strips was very “Who’s on first?”, I think we can forgive Sarah for that misinterpretation.
“Sarah is cranky and has a shitty attitude. If you add in some extreme bigotry then she’s just as bad as a bigot.”
Yes. If you completely change one character so that they act like another, then those two characters will be extremely similar. BUT, since they’re not actually at all similar, maybe you could stop comparing “isn’t nice” to “is actively evil”?
Being mean = actively harassing a marginalized floor mate with hate speech with the goal of them moving out or taking a sewer slide, and trying to capitalize of of the fact that you pushed your own superior to wanna take a slide down a sewer herself
I know you’re excited, but the amount of times you derail a comment thread and center yourself, your game, or some other spammy content… it’s too much.
I know you mean well by saying that, but it’s worth noting that helping others and helping yourself are NOT mutually exclusive or zero-sum in nature.
The creator of Mario once said himself that “a good idea is something that not only solves one problem, but can solve multiple problems at once”.
If DiktatorSquid up there helps me with my game, they benefit through a way to take their mind off things and feel better, I benefit through getting help on this creative project to occupy myself and feel better too, and a large amount of commenters in this community benefit by getting one step closer to playing a passionately crafted Dumbing of Age Video Game.
Is the whole place not better off as a result of offering a role in the creation of this game?
In fact I am actually making this game and offering help like this because I love this comic and it’s community so much and want to give back to it, show how much i appreciate Willis’s work and all his fans.
I know this is from yesterday but it really feels like you’re not taking the gentle hints people have been trying to give you for months, and a certain point it feels like you’re doing so on purpose. Wellerman, you center yourself constantly in the comments section and it is exhausting. This doesn’t make you a bad parasite or anything, but the song and dance of people bringing these things up and you pivoting to victimize yourself or play dumb to the point you’re making is turning people away from bothering to enagage. Nova is not gatekeeping spam, that sentence makes no sense. It’s okay to listen to other people and the things they are saying – they aren’t personal attacks! More food for thought.
I’m very surprised by Joyce’s request. She knows how much Jennifer care about that and she’s asking her to ignore all the effort she has made in the past months because she has a crisis? Jennifer just wants to knows is her (best?) friend is OK and this is the response? Maybe the one Sarah needs to kick out the room is Joyce.
I mean, Jennifer can choose not to acquisce to the request and then get the fuck out of Joyce’s and Sarah’s room. It’s perfectly reasonable of Joyce to make her own comfort a condition of someone interacting with her in her own room when she’s feeling like shit.
Like yeah, it’s silly that Joyce refuses to accept Jennifer’s changes, but also right now she’s fully within her rights to assert all the silly she wants.
I’m not, if for no other reason than to Joyce, “Billie” was a source of comfort and safety in crisis and “Jennifer” has been distant and unsupportive. The audience knows Jennifer hates who she used to be and is trying to reinvent herself in an image that feels more congruent with how she sees herself, away from the expectations of others to be Billie, but all Joyce sees is that her friend who was awesome in a crisis and helped protect her from a worst case scenario of her mother finding out she went to a party with booze and got roofied is suddenly calling herself a different name and wants nothing to do with her.
She’s not really expressing it well, but even NT people don’t word stuff well when they’re upset and many autistic folks lose access to words when we get upset enough.
(today in-story excepted. Joyce made a comment at the start of the period drama to the effect that Jennifer doesn’t like her anymore so she’s surprised Jennifer wants to help, so that speaks pretty clearly that Jennifer’s been rejecting Joyce off screen about as much as much as Wally on-screen. Jennifer reaching out and being supportive friend today is the exception to the rule of the past few months, and Joyce wants her old friend who could be counted on as supportive and experienced.)
I agree with this. This is where my head’s been at. Billie/Jennifer is more than a change of name and behaviour, it was an entire rejection of who she was and incidentally of who she was around.
Plus, Joyce is in a place that is very painful and confusing. She’s in pain, has expressed that she’s overstimulated (by lights, voices and people), and got a big shock. She’s reacting the way that I do, regressing to almost childishness, seeking comfort, safety and familiarity, with big emotions and not-great-cognition.
Now I feel sad for Joyce. She just wants her old friend back♡, but Billie can’t return. Jennifer is different, more distant and all, but even if she said that being her closest friend was a sign something in her life was totally wrong, she still care about her a lot. Jennifer has all the right to go away angry for the request. But she probably will stay.
Tbh like even though I am not surprised I do appreciate Sarah – who damn near despises Jennifer – still stands up for Jennifer’s right to be true to who she wants to be. It’s a big part of why I like Sarah, as curmudgeonly as she can be. Sarah won’t blow smoke up your ass pretending to like you, but she also won’t let you be mistreated even if she personally dislikes you. I can appreciate that.
Joyce in not asking Jennefer to drink, have sex or do drugs.
Joyce is not asking that Jennefer never be Jennefer around her again.
Joyce is essentially asking her to for a little while drop her whole self improvement stick, stop asserting that she’s a different person than the person Joyce was actually friends with and be the alpha mother K9 problem solver again.
It’s just weird because Jennifer is also that person. She’s the one who got Joyce to the doctor.
I’m not even sure what Joyce thinks the difference between Billie and Jennifer is or if it matches at all with the reasons Jennifer isn’t using the name anymore.
I love how Joyce is already weaponizing the thing, you go girl!
I understand Sarah’s attitude very well, but I also feel like Billie will handle this just fine. Between the instant guess at what’s going on and the “I can handle nerds” I get the impression that she really does have experience with this?
Just for the sake of contrast. This is Dumbing of Age, and if you read the several descriptions of the comic in the webpage and other places, adjectives like “dumb”, “wrong”, and “dysfunctional” abound. I do not expect this comic strip to be populated by perfect human beings that are always doing the right thing for those around them. In fact, I expect the opposite. But I find the main cast and a good part of the secondary cast utterly lovable anyway, and that’s why I keep reading it.
Right? Willis is REALLY good at writing characters; the degree to which readers get invested in them is testament to that skill. But it seems like that investment tends to cause (what is to me) a weird amount of both lionization and demonization. These are a) human characters with flaws who will inevitably not do the right thing all the time and b) TEENAGERS, ffs.
Plus, how many times has a character caused a flurry of “Worst Person Ever” comments, only to be at least partially redeemed a few (or many) strips later? Or one of the commenters’ golden children be shown to maybe not quite so perfect as originally thought?
Maybe this bugs me more than it should (fandom gonna fan, amirite?) but I can’t help but wonder if readers are showing this little charity to fictional characters, how much do they allow those IRL?
I sometimes benefit from being a little slow-witted; I can’t think of anything to say right off (while having thoughts that turn out later to be completely wrong) so I end up looking wise.
Mind you, the words sometimes come quickly and easily even IRL and I end up acting like an ass.
Or not redeemed at all, but just comes into conflict with a different character and thus all flaws can be overlooked in favor of bashing the next character.
Especially since I mean well but still haven’t outgrown all the flaws these teenagers are showing! (Not that it’s clear that there’s an exact amount of helping a person someone is supposed to do—it seems like any amount is too much/little depending on the reader.) I should try to be more like Sarah if the world is judging me like they judge Dorothy or Jennifer etc.
I’ve had numerous discussions with University Marketing & Communications on their over use of red in everything. Luckily they’re finally backing off from it. Of course now I’m retiring in 5 weeks.
Can relate. Telling folks I’m likely autistic was for me extremely anti-climactic because damn near everyone had some variation on, “Hm, that tracks” or “wait, you weren’t already?” Or “Oh. OH. Oh, of course you are!”
It got to be frustrating. Like, god damn it can’t ONE of you be as surprised as I am on this?!
(My parents were, but turned out that was just denial because if I’m autistic my dad must be too and he’s “normal” sooooo…
Yeah funny story, 3 years later he screened positive)
For me it was the opposite. My mum was walking on eggshells about telling me because she was afraid that I would react poorly to being told I was on the tism spectrum.
And yet, my reaction was “Oh that makes a lot of sense”
Sarah suggested she’s only good at interacting with cheerleaders (stacking miniskirted girls into pyramids) so she’s saying she can interact with nerds as well. I don’t think the autism has anything to do with it.
I work with college students, in a role where I really can’t say much. And I think about how desperately I clung in college to what I thought I was and what I thought was normal, and how it’s affected my life in the decades after, I have to tell my brain to change the subject fast. Sometimes it’s just too much.
1. Five Guys when I want take out, one patty, bacon, mayo, hot sauce. grilled jalapenos when I’m in the mood. No Fries. I’m lucky to have several sit down restaurants with excellent but not inexpensive burgers.
2. Man, I liked a lot of shows as a kid so it kind of needs to be narrowed down a bit. Primetime? Afternoon reruns? Saturday mornings? We didn’t have cable until I was a tweener. Astroboy. Speed racer. Kimba. Star Trek (TOS before it was called that – yeah, I’m that old). Once I started playing guitar I watched a lot less television.
3. I don’t know nothing about video stuff, I kind of topped out at Missile Command on Atari. When I started on the computer, the only game I played was Solitaire. It might be on Apple but I’ve never bothered to look when I switched from PC
The fact Jennifer gets as much shit has she does despite being the only person who has done anything to attempt to improve the situation this storyline is mindboggling
I’m inclined to agree. She’s literally just trying to follow up and check in on Joyce, something that nobody else seems willing to do. Sarah lives there, so she gets no points for being present, but come on, her two “closest friends” haven’t bothered? Even if she told everyone to fuck off, I think Joyce would at least appreciate the gesture later.
Oops I just reported you instead of replying by accident.
I just saw like 5 comments of people saying they did that and thinking “haha, that’s so silly! I would never do that!” and then I immediately did it. Dammit
It’s worth noting that regardless of how long its actually been last Dorothy saw Joyce Joyce had expressed that she wanted to sleep, I think Dorothy can be forgiven for giving it a day before checking back in with Joyce
Below is all comments on craft (not comments on if these are real people, but comments because they are created characters in a universe):
Sarah is such a neat dichotomy. She acts like a jerk, but she also uses her jerkiness to tell other people not to not act like jerks. Like here she’s reminding Joyce that asking for someone to change back (or to go by an earlier name) is an unreasonable demand, which it is. (Or maybe she meant something else by that last comment?) And then all the mirroring with Dorothy the other day to make it clearer to Dorothy about the possible effects of comments rather than just straight up saying dude, have you thought about this.
And it’s neat how Joyce is doing to herself what Dorothy was doing– here’s the label, that means she should be able to act more like the label. (The “tired from masking” the other day vs. “respond adversely to changes in scheduled routine” today.)
Also, I gotta say I love how meta the mouseover was today. Grow!
Start growing her pony tail. Start growing into Jennifer, which is the opposite of what growing a ponytail would do. Joyce has been learning and growing and changing. Everyone still las lots of growing to do.
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quick, to the cosplay closet full off everything required to create the semblance of the past, including an entire Toedad
…for punching reasons
Toe to Scale
Wait no, Ryan’s back, go back, go back
Gotta Toe the line.
And an entire clo—erm, I mean copy of Mike too, for snarking reasons. And so peoples’ moms don’t get lonely and have loads of nickels.
Or something. ;D
Gotta get that Billie FAAAAAACE!
Geez, there’s a blast from the FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE xD
*takes deep breath*, first things first
For those who want a break from HARD DISCUSSION:
1. Where’s your favorite place to get a burger, and how do you like yours? 🍔
2. What was your favorite show as a kid? 📺
3. Tell me what kinds of video games you think Dina would like and why, but your answer CAN’T involve dinosaurs! 😜
1. Yes and not overdone. Definitely a lovely moist chewy burger.
2. Power Rangers. Sabertooth tiger was the best.
3. Stardew Valley. I think she’d like the orderliness, the Science Family, and how easy to understand the huans are
1: I like 5 Guys burgers, I typically get them with mayo and hot sauce, sometimes caramelized onions if I’m in the mood for it, also a small Cajun fries
2: The old Digimon anime, also I’d watch the movie literally everyday until the VHS tape broke
3: I don’t know why but I feel like she’d enjoy The Sims
I like 5 Guys too. They offer grilled mushrooms, my favorite topping, and are one of the few places in the US that have malt vinegar for the fries.
Five Guys for me too. I love the grilled mushrooms (but not onions, grilled or otherwise). And they give you SO MUCH FRIES.
There’s one a couple of blocks from my place. I dare not go there more often.
Really?
I have tried 5 Guys here, and was less than impressed. Bun was greasy, and the burger didn’t seem to be any better than you might get on the McDonald’s value menu. (Granted, this is in Canada, so maybe they don’t quite have the same menu or quality control up here as in the U.S.)
It’s probably like any franchise, quality can vary widely between locations, even down to who’s working and what kind of day they’re having. I’m not super keen on 5 Guys TBH, but it’s typically a durn sight better than McDonalds, at least the location near me.
There’s a place in my country called Pedro Juan y Diego where they sold a special burger with caramelized pineapple and arugula.
Dragon ball, still is.
I dunno, I don’t think about what certain characters like to play.
There is a chain here in Ontario, Canada called The Works that sells specialty hamburgers with all sorts of toppings… Mac & Cheese, Peanut Butter, Blue Cheese, Brie, Avacado, pineapple, arugula, onion rings, etc.
1. I prefer chicken/fish sandwiches, I get them from Mcdonalds.
2. I loved the original Pokemon anime and stuff on Animal Planet.
3. Maneater, You get to play a Megalodon, which isnt a dinosaur, but it is from around the same time, and is a very big carnivore. Sure its not accurate and your shark gets superpowers, but I have a feeling she would enjoy playing it and pretending all the people she is eatting as the shark are people who deny dinos exist.
Megalodon didn’t live at the time of the dinosaurs. It lived much later, only just before modern humans. That said, there was a similar giant shark in the Cretaceous called Cretoxyrhina.
Thank you for correcting me, I most likely saw that name, saw that it looked exactly like the Megalodon, and mixed them up. Wouldnt be surprised if the Megalodon was a Direct decedent though.
A sincere “Thank you for correcting me”,
Now THAT’S something you don’t see everyday. 😆
BTW love your passion for prehistoric breasts, Switchchris!!! 😍
1: In LA, there’s this lovely chain of burger places called The Habit, and their cheeseburgers are exactly how I love them, completely unhealthy.
They do this great version with avacado and sourdough bread too. After a long trip to another country, years back? First meal I had was one of those, a good, American Cheeseburger…
2: The DCAU shows as a whole, particularly Superman the Animated Series, as well as Batman Beyond. Terry McGinnis needs to be used more, dang it.
3: I don’t know why, but I get this real Stellaris vibe when I think of her.
1.) Fuddruckers. The mass closure of their locations hurt me feel inside; I miss being able to top a 2/3 pound patty with a freaky obscene later of pickle slices.
2.) Um. Geez. So, as an 80’s kid I couldn’t say for sure if it was He-man, Transformers, Voltron, or what.
3.) Hm. This one requires more thought.
Oh wow. I haven’t been to a Fuddruckers since before lockdown. LOVE their burgers. I haven’t driven past the location in ages either, so I have no idea if they’re still open or not. Guess I’ll be doing a drive-past next weekend to check!
If they’re gone, it’ll hurt as bad as when the Chevy’s near me closed almost 20 years ago. We used to go there for lunch since it was across the street from the office, or go for drinks after work.
1. Burger King, ’cause I’m just a basic kind of guy. (I get a lot pickier about where I get Mexican.)
2. Star Trek, because I’m an old. (And I mean the old-school Trek, with Kirk and Spock just ignoring the Prime Directive all over the quadrant.)
3. I think she could enjoy any game that let her play as some sort of reptile.
1. Probably Whataburger, even if they’ve discontinued my absolute favorite burger that they once had.
2. When I was really little, I watched a lot of PBS Kids stuff– I really liked Sesame Street. When we got cable (which we won in a raffle) and started having access to Nickelodeon, I was into both The Fairly OddParents and Jimmy Neutron. (SpongeBob was banned.) Around middle school I shifted to Phineas and Ferb.
3. Without involving dinosaurs… my gut instinct is Pokemon for some reason? Although she’d probably be annoyed by its misuse of the term “evolution” to refer to changes undergone by an individual organism, rather than gradual changes in a species as a whole– the same kind of error made by people who say evolution can’t be real because if it were we’d see monkeys turning into humans all the time.
I would imagine she would be more annoyed by the concept that Humans are able to subdue those powerful beasts and send them into battle. I love pokemon but Logic does not exist in that world lol.
1) five guys. great burgers, plus I love that they assume you want nothing on your burger and you tell them to add stuff to it, instead of how most places do it where I have to ask to omit stuff. it’s much nicer to ask for bacon, cheese, BBQ sauce, ketchup and mayo, than it is to ask for no lettuce, no tomato, no onions, no pickles, no mustard, and then worry they have other stuff I’m not aware of that I don’t want either
2) totally spies
3) I’m not super familiar with no man’s sky, but based on my limited understanding of what that game is about, I’ll say that as my answer
Wherever I go for a burger, I usually say “JUST cheese, ketchup and mustard”, just like that, usually there’s no problem except for the unavoidable instances they get the order wrong anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
well sometimes I’ll just say no vegetables, since mustard isn’t the end of the world and I’m fine with most other condiments too, but saying that out loud as a fat girl is kind of embarrassing. honestly most of the time I just order it normal and hope that the lettuce is one big leaf instead of shredded so it’s easy to take off. I just hate that crunch it is the worst texture
Watabuger – No.1 all the way with grilled onions, toasted bun, mayo, jalapenos
Toss-up between 3-2-1 Contact and Square One TV. Both PBS shows and *really* shows my age. XD
Clue, certainly.
3. Tetris
My favorite place to get a burger was a bar and grill that no longer exists in a town I left behind 1.5k miles away. *Sigh* tbh I haven’t been to actual restaurants much since moving, so unless I cook it myself, my favorite burger is an ultimate cheeseburger from jack in the box.
2) power rangers
3) I think she’d like stealth games.i picture her being very good at and really enjoying Untitled Goose Game
Untitled Goose Game is an inspired choice for Dina’s favorite game. I think it’d be in character for her to enjoy something where she runs around causing chaos and HOMPKing at people, as dinosaurs were wont to do.
I know, right! She’d love it!
HOMPK!
1. Local fish and chip shop. Must have cheese…and then order extra cheese. Oh, and beetroot.
2. Dragon ball Z
3. Dawn of Man, or Warhammer Total War. Hey, if you cant have dinosaurs you can at least have dragons. Although Im now reminded of how badly Joyces story about fire breathing dinosaurs went but…oh well.
Burgers are best from those independent, only-one-location places. The ones with the walk-up windows!
The Last Airbender, for sure
If Dina had to play a game without dinosaurs, it would probably involve science education.
1) Local Bigger Burger, the name says it all. I take my orders medium-well.
2) Ed, Edd n Eddy. I still check out clips from time to time.
3) Computer solitaire.
1. My local diner. They’re smart too, they pipe the exhaust from the grill directly out onto the street, so walking by you always smell their burgers. It’s the best possible marketing and I’m almost always in some level of craving for one.
2. I don’t know about favorite, but the thing that’s coming first to mind is a cartoon I used to love called The Centurions, which was about a team of folks who wore these suits that specialized…basically mechs could be beamed down from orbit to help them do anything they needed to do. I miss that show, I should see if it’s available anywhere.
3. I agree with Laura about Tetris, and also I think games like Animal Crossing, which specifically have set routines to fulfill.
1) Smoke. Sadly, they went out of business during COVID. Now I guess… Red Robin?
2) Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea
3) Xenogears. Because I love Xenogears and so might she. Oh, and because one of the major villain groups is a thinly veiled expy of the Catholic Church.
1. I don’t eat burgers, but when I was living in New Hampshire there was a place called Local Burger that, aside from a really good crispy chicken sandwich, had chicken fingers breaded with Cap’n Crunch. Delicious.
2. I was big on Batman: The Animated Series.
3. Dina seems like a survival sim kinda person to me. Yes, that includes Ark: Survival Evolved, but I bet she’d play all kindsa titles in that genre. I bet she’d even be disappointed at Fallout 76’s Wastelanders update changing the game so fundamentally. I know I was.
1-Dugg Burger. They dig out parts of the large bun to make room for all the ingredients. Hickory smoked bacon, Fire-roasted peppers, Sauteed mushrooms, Caramelized onions, Dill pickles, Chili lime slaw, Mixed greens, a combination of barbeque sauce and honey mustard, Pepper Jack Cheese, and a generous patty of freshly ground beef. Ideally accompanied by one of their legendary shakes.
2. Micky Mouse Club. Who wasn’t in love with Annette?
3. No video game without dinosaurs would ever be worthy of Dina!
That Burger Sounds Life-changing.
1) I like either carls or fatburger best but in general i will never say no to any burger.
2)Its hard for me to pin down a favorite since i was one of those kids that was primarily babysat by tv but hey arnold and later yu yu hakusho were two of my big ones
3) maybe carmen sandiego?
1 There’s this place where I used to like called Meat Bbq and they had the best burgers. I get mine loaded lettuce onion bacon egg with the in house coffee bbq sauce and aioli cooked at a medium with a side of brisket fires. (Note due to obvious I get this meal at max twice a year)
2 Power Rangers its still a love of mine and most of my usernames reference it
3 I think she’d like nonaction Rougelikes something like Slay the Spire
1. My own home. Nothing compares self-made burgers.
2. Darkwin Duck, Talespin, Dragon Bal (Without Z)
3. Spore. Because causing her own evolution – and blowing up planets.
Let’s see…
1) McDonalds or Burger King. I prefer Micky D’s generally, but i’m not fussy. 🙂
2) Favourite show as a “kid” – depends on what age we’re talking. Tweens and up – Grange Hill. Younger childhood – My Little Pony and Disney’s Gummi Bears. 😀
3) For videogames, I think Dina would actually quite enjoy RPGs. I would recommend her the Gaia trilogy from the SNES (Soulblazer, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma) and the PS1 Granstream Saga. 🙂
1) My kitchen, since I no longer live anywhere with a Whataburger. I cook mine smashburger style.
2) Land of the Lost, maybe? I’m old-ish. My being a kid was a long time ago.
3) Eldenring. And she’s really good, which I am not.
1. An American friend made burgers at a barbecue around 6/7 years ago and every burger since has been a disappointment, to the point where I just don’t really eat them anymore.
2. Thomas the Tank Engine, the ones with Ringo Starr narrating.
3. I dunno, Zach-likes maybe, but they seem a bit too obviously sciency.
Do you have a discord? You have a lot of energy for text communication, I wonder if you would enjoy discord
I do in fact! My handle is in my Newgrounds page if you click my name 😉
Home, I don’t really go out for burgers.
Favorite show a kid, Gargoyles
Dina would like Minecraft.
Burgers: since the Turkish-owned greasy spoon over the bus station in the town centre closed down, I haven’t eaten burgers. After theirs, anything else would be a let down.
Favourite TV show as a child: Doctor Who. (Favourite as an adult: same answer.)
Game: I can picture Dina enjoying Fez – happily exploring all those uninhabited 2/3D levels, figuring out the ancient inscriptions.
1. MorningStar Original Veggie Burger, made at home… but only because I can’t eat beef anymore (lousy virus). Love it with Carolina Reaper Barbecue Sauce, romaine lettuce 🥬 and fresh onion 🧅 and tomato 🍅
2. “Ark-II” is the reason I became an engineer.
3. Good question. Probably “The Sims” due to the level of control available.
1. Cheeseburger with ketchup only! Best around here is at (ironically enough) a place called Double Dogs.
2. Probably Loony Tunes; deciding on favorites is hard but I watched that the most.
3. I think she’d really enjoy survival craft sims! Minecraft is the default assumption, but I like to imagine she’d go through a similar path to enjoying them as me: She’d be at least as disappointed by ARK as I was, but find much more fun options like Conan Exiles, Valheim, or Raft. (I wish I liked minecraft; then I’d be able to find people to play with.)
1. The only place I ever got a burger from in the US was from Modern Love NYC? But otherwise the best I ever got was from the Las Vegan collective kitchen at a grindcore festival. For vegan, rare is rarely an option. I make pretty decent (vegan) burger every now and then.
2. Transformers.
3. online Bagh Ghal, she plays tigers because she likes winning.
1. I don’t eat burgers much, but if I had to choose I’d probably pick Burger King. Though I generally prefer to get chicken nuggets when I go there.
2. Not 100% sure if this was my favorite, but probably Star Trek: Voyager, though I also loved TNG as a kid. I like all the older (pre-Discovery and Picard) Star Trek shows, and I’ve been watching DS9 for the first time for the past few months and really enjoying it.
3. I’m not sure I can answer this one. I imagine if Dina has a favorite video game, it almost certainly has dinosaurs.
1.Hmmm you know I don’t eat burgers much but there was this place just called “burger.” in my college town which had a turkey burger topped with grilled pineapple, teriyaki sauce, and some other stuff I can’t remember – that was really good.
2. Toss-up between Ben 10 (the first one) and Static Shock, I think. Haven’t watched either of those in ages, but they really excited my imagination as a kid.
3. I feel like “has cool dinosaurs” would actually be a very important criterion for Dina when she’s choosing video games to play, but if we’re talking NON-dinosaur games, I can see her really enjoying Factorio. She’s very loyal, ambitious, and analytically minded, so building a massive manufacturing complex/research lab while defending it from endless waves of hostile aliens sounds like exactly her jam.
1) I don’t think anyone beats out my dad’s burgers actually. I like mine a tiny little bit charred, dressed with a healthy coating of bbq, an unhealthy coating of bbq, cheese, pickles, mustard on the top bun, mayo and ketchup on the bottom bun.
2) oh shit, how kid are we talking? I think Digimon? geez my memory ain’t the greatest. uhh, I prob traded digimon for inuyasha, and then inuyasha for fullmetal alchemist? I think by the time I traded fullmetal out, I wouldn’t have counted as a kid anymoer
3) DKC2 because it’s just the best video game ever [/hyperbole] and if she can’t at least appreciate it, then I’m not sure she deserves any of my other recommends
your anime evolution is pretty much exactly most of my anime friends’, except half of us were more pokemon than digimon (and there were a couple with CCS or Sailor Moon before they watched Inuyasha). The friend who introduced me to FMA literally introduced it as “even better than Inuyasha,” and I was like “don’t be silly, there’s nothing you like more than Inuyasha.”
okay that’s pretty hilarious
worth mentioning that I was also watching pokemon, sailor moon, and CCS, it’s just none of those were my favs. Inuyasha would have been the first I knew was anime, and yeah the person who started urging me to watch FMA was also the only other person I knew at the time that watched inuyasha, so it seems to be a common pattern
1. Was Fuddruckers until they closed, and 5 guys was a go to when I went to visit my parents in Arizona. Currently my favourite is a mushroom swiss at Fatburger.
2. Good question, I grew up with peasant vision growing up in various remote Canadian air force bases, so usually only 3 channels, and one was in french. I liked Ultraman when I was little and didn’t know any better, Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet were also favourites when I was preschool/early grade school age. I was a huge Monty Python’s Flying Circus fan as a teenager.
3. That is a very interesting question. Maybe Theme Hospital or Dungeon Keeper 2; or for something more current, any of the farming gamealikes. Was going to suggest pokemon, but I am not sure how she would take the “evolution” part of the game.
Whataburger,
Hurculoids,
I only play Gran Turismo, can’t help on that one.
1. Used to be a great place called Cabin 12, long closed now. Had an amazing one at a place called Laverne’s iirc too. For chains, Triple-Os. Veggie patty with caramelized onions, mushrooms, swiss, but I’m happy to try other things.
2. What was your favorite show as a kid? 📺
Very young – Pokemon
Middle grade – Malcolm in the Middle
Teen – Fullmetal Alchemist
3. I think Dina would like monster hunting games (like Pokemon, Yokai Watch, etc). Actually, I don’t know if she’d LIKE them, but she has a good memory so I think she’d be really good at them. I don’t know how to explain it but I do think she’d like Stardew Valley (I guess because: relaxed, any pace, instructions are clear but there are still lots of surprises)
Pre-Pokemon age, Batman ’66-68 and also anything else batman my brother and I could watch
Apparently Laverne’s closed in 2018 🙁 Didn’t know as it isn’t local.
1. I visited a place in Cape Cod years ago called the Next Door Burger Barn, and it was the only $15 burger I have ever had that was worth the price. So good. Just a regular hamburger, but so good.
2. There was this PBS show called America’s Kids I liked, also anything on Animal Planet
3. I don’t really play video games, but if Dina wants a good fidget activity that allows you to remain quietly in a corner and let people come up to talk if they want to I would happily teach her to crochet.
Finally a discussion I can take part in!
1. Since I’ve turned vegetarian, I really like getting burgers from a restaurant called “Swing kitchen” (it’s really just a normal restaurant chain/franchise over here, and vegan) or “Peter Pane” (they serve very good meaty and vegetarian burger) – but since they are more on the expensive side of things, and I try to watch my weight, I only go there like 2-5 times a year.
Oh yeah, and I like my burger with cheese, sometimes jalapenos and lots of veggies.
2. Honestly, too much to choose from. I loved the Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, Pokemon, Dragonball + Dragonball Z… I watched too many. Let’s just say “animated ones”. Still know all of the songs as well (in my language, though).
3. Maybe Sims, because she can experiment with human interaction and I believe she might find joy in simply creating characters and letting them interact nearly independently to answer a specific thesis, while she sits in front of the PC making notes for possible changes etc.
3. Tell me what kinds of video games you think Dina would like and why, but your answer CAN’T involve dinosaurs! 😜
Please. Jennifer easily still has enough hair to pull off a ponytail. Nice try, Sarah!
but, Joyce, the shorter hair is Hot™️
Wow it’s a good thing Jennifer had already guessed that or I would have been mad at Sarah for telling her that without Joyce saying it’s ok to tell her
…oh, this comments section should be fun.
If it’s any consolation, there’s a heat wave where I am and it’s probably gonna be too hot for me to think on hard issues and discuss here anyway.
If I hell-dive into discussion anyway, please remind me to work more on the DOA fan game. 😉
The appropriate response
I was thinking this, but that’s fitting too.
1st and last panels:
When you find out you’re a neurodivergent and are just beginning to untangle your unique stripes, the idea that other people can know your brain that much better than you do is a toxic pitfall that’s all too easy to fall into. I just hope that Joyce can pull herself out before the voices of others drown out her own!!! 😭😭😭
Last Panel: 😗😗😗 I’m…. not quite sure what to think here.
On one hand, I WAS looking forward to something that can possibly reawaken Jennifer’s inner Billie. That, and it’s also technically good that Joyce is asking for help somehow?
BUT, I just really really really hope she’s not gonna be Sheldon Cooper with this and turn her neurodivergent-self-affirmations into weapons to make unreasonable demands.
😵😵😵
Fuck am I torn. Also I’m bored. Anyone got any Youtube Poops I can watch?
Joyce, for the next ten years: Bazinga!
I think Willis is aware enough to avoid her becoming a horrific mess of offensive tropes
I sure hope so, otherwise who knows? I might just snap and Squid Game the entire cast! 😁
Or I won’t do that. Whatever’s worse!!!!
I’ll be honest. I’ve never watched that show, and only saw parts of two scenes when someone else was: One involving a harp and an allusion to 80’s dream sequences, and one involving a rat-infested chair. Don’t ask me how I managed to remember that.
The premise sounded like the sort of picking that I was thoroughly tired of, so I never gave it a chance.
Its not a youtube poop but whenever I need a laugh I watch Sword Art Online Abridged
I love SAO abridged as well as Hellsing Ultimate Abridged.
Both are better than the original, though I feel you have to watch the original to fully appreciate the humor.
“24601 Releases a Sammich on Parole” is my favorite YTP and a classic. That channel is still active as well and has the best ones out there, imo.
In case you didn’t know, you can buy a shirt with the entire transcript of that video printed on it, along with a picture of Javert’s distorted face.
I did not know… thank you, I’m happy to learn that that exists.
obviously not a universal, but it certainly helped on my end that the first friends to suggest I might be autistic were a married couple who had both been diagnosed themselves when they were younger
also once I started looking into things more, too much made sense
Fascinating! 😃
Say, two questions if you don’t mind me asking:
1. Do you happen to fall into Dina’s demographic / intersectionality? (Just curious)
2. When it came to untangling your unique neurodivergent stripes as an individual, for any given aspect of yourself, how did you go about determining whether it was down to your neurodivergence, just a personal quirk, or something else entirely? Did you have to think of it lots and lots? Are there some aspects of yourself for which you just don’t know?
Asking as a neurodivergent (neurofluid and can flow in and out of the many autism**-type combos) still in the untangling process 🙃
Oh dang, Joyce’s request resonates with me so much.
Right?!?! Billie looked so much better with longer hair!!!
LOL that’s not what I meant, but I see your point. 😛
It’s more that I have defo in the position of feeling vulnerable and tired and so so so FRUSTRATED that no one is LISTENING to me, so much so that I don’t even care if I’m being unreasonable.
But don’t you know she has A New Label now, therefore everyone’s preconceived notions about said label now fit her to a T because she got a “maybe, go talk to a specialist” from a general practitioner?
/s
I Want You/I want you so bad/I Want You/I want you so bad/It’s driving me mad/It’s driving me mad…
She’s So…HEAVY
Can’t deny that I relate to Joyce’s request.
Everyone got super heated yesterday over a 30 second interaction, really hoping it cools down just a smidge.
Okay, I know you’re not that new here. Put a quarter in the Optimism Jar.
Ka-ching!
I mean, if the expectation is that the comment section is going to be toxic and heated… then it sounds like people need to cool their jets. Or I’m going to have to stay away from it, because it’s no longer chill.
There’s some movie or other in which the protagonist has to keep a vehicle moving over a certain speed or else the vehicle will explode. This website is like that, except with scathing moral condemnation and mistaken intentions. Expressing a desire for even slightly less intensity and vitriol? That’s actually worse than participating.
I mean if that’s the case, sounds like I should just bow out, then.
The movie is Speed, starring John Wick in his civilian disguise.
Jennifer can handle nerds because they were her community for most of her growing up. She likely clocked Joyce as appearing like someone with a neurodivergence because she’s already spent a fair amount of time around people on the spectrum. And underneath it all, has no real problem with it.
…and to think, at the beginning of the school year, Joyce might have worn her special interests as a badge of pride (e.g. “Dexter Superfan,” “Bible geek,” “Word nerd,” “Jesus freak,” etc.).
Joyce still can. She doesn’t have to be ashamed of her encyclopedic knowledge of things that interest her, regardless of why they interest her.
Folks used to tell me that talking to me was like talking to an encyclopedia, or to a dictionary. I carefully cultivated a southern accent and copied local dialect to allay those barriers. But I was never embarrassed about it. It was different, that’s all it was. Not good, not bad. Just unique.
Thank you for writing this all Laura, it means so much! 🥹🥹🥹
Not all of what neurodivergence could entail for any individual is bad. I don’t want to think of neurodivergent stripes being “incorrect”, just different. It means that you have to do a few things differently.
When it comes to any aspect of myself, I don’t want to automatically confirm or deny that it’s down to my neurodivergence (neuro-fluid / can flow into and out of the MANY autism**-type combos).
Nobody knows my own brain better than I do. Sometimes I don’t even know if any given aspect of myself is down to my neurodivergence. And I just need to gather more evidence, think about it lots and lots. Maybe it’s down to neither neurodivergence or personality, but something else entirely, something…. out of this world. Maybe I’ll never know for any given aspect, and that’s OK.
The point is we get to choose which stripes we want to wear, and how we want show our unique, beautiful selves to the world. And that is good.
Oh, and apparently, it was old-Billie’s “mission to aid the socially-impaired.” Sure, that was a pompous and condescending way to consider her closest lifelong friendships (e.g., with Walky) but Joyce seemed enthusiastic about it: “Well, that’s definitely me!”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/mission/
To be fair to Jennifer, she was being sarcastic when she said that.
Was she? Huh. I missed that. (In all sincerity, not sarcasm – I actually missed that she was being sarcastic.)
Seconds before the pajama pants fiasco.
Jennifer can handle nerds because she (at least in her Billie form) IS a nerd.
!!! My nickname in primary school was “the walking encyclopedia” because my dad would always greet me with “whaddaya know” so I thought sharing snippets of “did you know” was the standard way of greeting people.
“How are you, Charlie”
“Did you know that there are two words that rhyme with purple- hirple and kerple. To hirple means to limp painfully, and kerple is a part of a saddle!”
I absolutely love that, @v.gay.person. Perfect!
…But will a purple curple make your hourse hirple? If so, can you fix the problem with KERPLE?
My take is she always considered Joyce and Co non cheerleaders, aka Nerds. I didn’t read that comment as a dig at the doctor’s hunch/reference.
Sarah: “You can’t handle non cheerleading shit”
Jennifer: “I can handle nerds fine”
Based on Joyce’s comment “everybody figures this out before me”. I’m guessing Jennifer did not talk to Joyce about this between the doctor and PoliSci
I think Joyce might be taking this whole autism thing a little too far. She hasn’t even been diagnosed yet. I’d hardly call Jennifer’s identity an unscheduled change in routine. Joyce was the first person to state Jennifer should be called what she wants to be called.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/soundlike/
I think Joyce has been going through a lot of heavy change shit back to back to back lately, and the “maybe you’re Autistic” bombshell sent her scrambling a bit. It’s important to keep in mind that it’s not *just* the Autistic issues that are hitting her right now, they’re just the biggest weight on her mind at the moment.
If she were going to be upset by the official diagnosis, I can’t imagine that a professional clocking her as potentially autistic with 15 minutes of meeting her would be any less upsetting…. I’m sure, based on her upbringing, that she see this as a condemnation of her social skills (and I doubt the consistent “huh, yeah, I see it” reaction from everyone else is helping), so I wouldn’t be surprised if her though process is “my social skills are so bad that a professional diagnosed them as *clinically* bad within 15 minutes.”
I hope her aversion to change doesn’t dissuade her from following up with a psychologist. It’s all too easy to shut down when you’re overloaded.
(I misclicked on Flag instead of Reply. Sorry!)
On the surface she looks like she’s taking it too far. But looking at how the last in-comic year has gone and how much she’s changed, whether voluntarily or not, the freakout is reasonably realistic. I spent my 20s denying the fact that I might be on the spectrum because “there’s no way, I don’t fit the profile of someone with ADHD” and whatnot, despite a couple people pointing it out and giving me a couple books about it. But, looking back now with more knowledge on ADHD, autism, and the spectrum, a -lot- of stuff about my personality, levels of motivation, jobs/career path, areas of interest and depth of them, and whatnot, makes way too much sense when compared to attributes of neurodivergency. That said, I haven’t been formally evaluated, but it wouldn’t surprise me if I’m on the spectrum, something I spent almost a decade actively denying and refusing to admit the possibility of.
Just wanted to pop in with a quick note: ADHD is often compared to autism, but it’s not considered on the same spectrum. If you’re talking about neurodivergency in general, sure, yeah, it’s a spectrum of varied experiences! But ‘the spectrum’ usually makes people think of the autistic spectrum, so I wanted to clarify that ADHD isn’t technically on it. At least, not with our current understanding.
(I hope this doesn’t come off as rude aaaaa? I agree with the rest of your comment, I just wanted to comment as someone who a. was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid and b. has an autistic husband.)
Just reminds me, my brother and I are ADHD and he had a running theory that, because of the overlap in symptoms and comorbidity, ADHD is just another part of the autism spectrum, same way Asperger’s used to be considered a separate diagnosis
I imagine that there’d be different subtypes, some of which could be seen as having either label, and some people would have multiple subtypes?
Well i ain’t no big city autism expert but pretty much every diagnosis has subtypes. Dyslexia is just specific learning disorder with difficulties in reading. ADHD has ADHD inattentive type (formerly known as add), ADHD hyperactive/impulsive type, ADHD combination type, etc. So i could totally see there being subtypes
Ehhh I dunno if I’d classify them as the same? Or, let me rephrase that: I don’t know if it would be useful to have that be the structure of the official diagnoses. Even when I was more obviously ADHD as a kid (I ticked literally all the diagnostic boxes), I don’t think I would have personally related to what a lot of what my autistic husband was like at the same age. But who knows, that was a long time ago and everyone’s experiences are different haha.
I AM very pro-“fuck labels and embrace similarities in experiences”, though! And yeah, that includes when otherwise neurotypical people stim and stuff. I don’t like the idea of gatekeeping useful words, and brains are so complicated I fully believe we’re not at a point yet where we can say with 100% certainty we know what’s going on in there.
I think her reacting to the initial supposition and referral as if it were an official diagnosis is pretty in line with how Joyce feels about authority figures.
Hey, good point.
This combined with her evident views on neurodivergents and resultant beliefs on what she’s capable of only means she’s unlikely to give up her lenience on authority figures any time soon.
*audible sigh*
They always seem to forget what they learned in class over winter break. Even without you know kidnapping/parent betrayal/divorce/etc.
Let me re-comment this with the professor face on!
They always seem to forget what they learned in class over winter break.
Jennifer, what does “nerds” have to do with “autistic”?
Please. Explain. In detail. I’d love to know exactly how much I want to, personally, punt you off the roof.
Well, hyperfixating on special interests depending on what it is might seem a bit nerdy to others surface level, but i’d love to see portrayals of an ‘autistic jock’ lol
I mean, there’s autistic professional athletes out there. A mild google search brought up Jim Eisenreich, who has Tourette Syndrome but didn’t let that stop him from putting together a 15 year career in Major League Baseball, playing in over 1,400 games over his career.
And it would not at all surprise me if a number of current professional athletes were autistic but undiagnosed, because they’re successful and skilled and these are boats that do not need rocking. Doubly so given the state of mental healthcare in professional sports, which is… well, its improving, but still not in a great place overall…
I think in “Fantastic Beasts,” Newt Scamander was supposed to be kind of like that. As an action hero with autism anyway.
Oh, and Jet Li’s character in “Unleashed,” also called “Danny the Dog” in some releases. Not really autism — more just extreme PTSD. But he’s definitely presented as having a very different way of being in the world. And he is an EXTREME. JOCK.
Well, he’s not quite a jock, but my favorite super-powered neurodivergent in anime has got to be L from Death Note. Guy’s got wits that are sharper than blades 😈
I mean really liking and knowing a lot about a thing makes you a nerd in that thing. Jocks are sports nerds. Fashionistas are fashion and makeup nerds. Motorheads are car nerds. Not being a nerd in something just means you don’t have hobbies. So by that logic, if you have a special interest or hyper fixation (rn mine is clone wars era star wars), you’re a nerd in that thing
If you’re a piece of delicious tart lumpy strawberry or grape candy, you are also a nerd
No i don’t acknowledge the orange and green ones. Assuming those were real and not a fever dream
MMA and gynmastics?
Nothing to do with “autistic”; Jennifer presents “nerds” as the complement to “miniskirted girls”.
I didn’t realize that until you said it, but that makes sense to me. I’ve used the same sort of dichotomy in my language before, too.
I get how that can really easily misunderstood, though.
We do tend to be very nerdy.
Sure, but its a Venn Diagram, not a bloody circle.
Your mom is a Venn diagram.
It’s a heavily overlapping Venn diagram. “Nerds” is a flexible enough word that I think it’s actually fair for Jennifer to lump “people who are better with their special interest than with people” there.
Sure, autistic people are more diverse than that, but I can easily see how her personal experiences would lead to this generalization.
It’s not like *Joyce* isn’t a nerd.
Just wanted to say I’m with you here. That’s one HELL of an assumption Billiefer is making… but given how she’s talked about nerds in the past and vehemently denied being one herself, it’s not surprising.
I think by “nerds” Jennifer just means smart people who like to pursue their own interests. Sure, not all people with autism and other spectrum conditions fit that stereotype, but some do. And Joyce is smart. And she takes her interests to extreme levels (e.g. worldbuilding her comic strip). Those are GOOD traits; and they’re also “nerdy” in the best sense of that word. And they may describe some of the traits that Dr. Kaur thought might fit with a particular diagnosis. I don’t think Jennifer is using “nerd” as an insult here.
…Certainly, I never took it as one.
Huh. Interesting. Meanwhile, I’ve always taken Billie/Jennifer’s use of the word ‘nerd’ as inherently insulting (or at least meant to be derogatory, I’m very difficult to actually insult LOL).
Just search out your local quidditch team
“Nerds” are basically everyone who isn’t part of the cool “in” crowd she strives to belong to.
I interpreted that statement as a reaction to Sarah’s comment that she should only bother herself with cheerleader-types, rather than having anything to do with autism. Like, she has a history of seeing people as either cool or nerd.
I think in this context “Nerds” relates to not being a cheerleader. Still offensive as Jennifer still needs to build a hierarchy in her social group, but I didn’t read that comment as related to the potential diagnosis.
well there’s prolly an ‘overlap’ but life’s too short/long/etc to not have at least /one/ nerdy interest lol
So Jennifer just…immediately guesses Joyce’s not-yet-a-diagnosis?
Why is everyone being so *exceptionally* mean and insensitive to each other recently?
Like, I get that a lot of plot threads got tied up in the Shitty Dads arc so we have to seed some new ones…but it just feels like there’s been constant upheaval and setup with no payoff for such a long time. We’re not stopping to process any of this shit, just pushing the characters along…sometimes into dynamics or conversations that don’t feel organic.
You mean like how a lot of people in the comments guessed Joyce might be some level of neurodivergent after seeing her issues with food and fidgeting?
Yeah I’m thinking she had a feeling for a while but didn’t want to bring it up to avoid upsetting Joyce
I think it’s weird that after 10 years of the comic not even hinting that it might be more than a minor personality quirk, suddenly every character is immediately clued into it, first guess.
This storyline caught me by surprise, which isn’t a bad thing on its own. But I do not feel like there’s been much in the way of foreshadowing or groundwork laid to tackle this concept in the comic, and it feels like all of that foundational stuff is now being fast-tracked to get to where the story needs it to be.
It’s already felt like all the characters have changed drastically in the last few months of strips, getting much, much snippier and insensitive with each other, and this story beat with Joyce’s not-yet-a-diagnosis feels like the biggest curveball so far, with none of the years-long context that’s been built up for something like, say, Joyce’s Fundigelical upbringing or Becky’s purity culture hangups.
I certainly don’t mean to criticize the subject matter. It just doesn’t feel like I’ve been set up as a reader to follow everything that’s coming at us – and things are changing very quickly.
I think in hindsight a lot of stuff people have attributed to her upbringing might have been subtle foreshadowing
This is Billie/Jennifer we’re talking about, though.
If you think this hasn’t been foreshadowed, then all I can say is that we read very different comics.
I mean, most of the readers have been clued in for years. Why shouldn’t the cast be?
Joyce’s food issues have been very noticeable, so have her attitude to not just authority, but routine in general. I was hardly surprised at all.
People figured Joyce out pretty early. The Dorothy stuff though, I don’t think anyone predicted.
That’s the really weird thing, because the Dorothy signals were there at least as clear as Joyce’s, but somehow everyone decided to ignore them until Willis decided is time to make some things more explicit.
I think part of it is because Dorothy is pretty high-functioning, but also because a lot of her ‘signals’ are more common. High pressure on oneself, wanting to succeed, just enjoys spreadsheets and organization, all of that can easily explain any of Dorothy’s quirks.
It doesn’t quite feel like Dorothy’s there, but it’s possible that the end goal isn’t to reveal Dorothy as autistic, but more to expose her subconscious prejudice against it as a ‘flaw’ in her ‘perfect’ image.
Agreed a little bit. Characters hearing the referral and going “oh, that makes sense” is reasonable, but Jennifer apparently hasn’t heard and just jumped right to it anyway. Has she thought that for awhile? Why not mention it? Why mention it now?
10 years ago autism had a worse rep than it does now. The sliding present means the background knowledge of the whole cast has changed. It is jarring, because they were always like this now, but they were always like something else a few months ago, story time.
I think you got it. Society’s understanding of the spectrum has evolved – I mean, ten years ago the label Asperger’s was still in use by a lot of people, not just those out of the loop.
Don’t get me wrong, like Jon above I also had a moment of “huh, they all just know what that is? with relatively little judgment???” But what you said is probably the real answer.
I hadn’t thought about that before but it makes a lot of sense. I guess all slow moving comics have that duality. Or the opposite in the case of 9 chickweed lane…
It’s also all shaped to some extent by Willis’s college (and childhood) experiences, which are even deeper in the past.
Yeahh no one who gets *as* paralyzed at touching food as Joyce does has it as just a minor personality quirk. It’s not guaranteed autism but, its something diverging neurologically
I think they’re frustrated with various things and there’s a lot of baggage. It has been pretty tense lately, though, even for Sarah and some others who are always a bit bristly.
On Jennifer guessing it, I think she was likely able to pick it up from the context, plus there’ve been signs. Not wanting her foods to touch, for instance, stuff Jennifer’s seen over time. Sarah’s phrasing of clocking also probably isn’t something she’d use if it was like, say, a hernia or something physical.
But Jennifer is “just” a student, and not even one that is in a medical or science field. And since she probably gravitates towards the popular kids in class, you wouldn’t expect many of them to be on the autism spectrum.
Even if she recognized little signs (like “food can’t touch”) as unusual, many people wouldn’t expect her to know enough about autism to make the connection.
And not just make the connection, but be right that this was what the doctor clocked.
Imagine how we’d feel about this if the doctor had picked up on something else and this was the first time anyone had every suggested autism in Joyce’s presence?
I’m sure most of the commenters here aren’t from a medical or science background but could guess Joyce as some level of neurodivergence.
Heck, the idea that autistic kids can’t be popular is probably a dated stereotype in itself.
No but most of the comments here are probably older than Jennifer. Plus the issue has been discussed about Dina before so we at least have a little more background.
Yeah, especially since Jennifer has been shown to have pretty significant blind spots when it comes to her insight. Like, it does feel a little odd for her to believe bisexuality isn’t real or be utterly convinced Sal is Amazi-girl, but understand autism well enough to pinpoint Joyce as having it.
I mean…not really. Jens what, 19? She’s probably on Twitter and TikTok. Learning about ND and self diagnosis is all the rage rn, to some good and bad effects. Autistic people have more of a platform than ever right now to speak out to the layman about their experiences. And like, half your (general you) favorite creators are autistic and you’re probably following them on some social media where they talk about it. A group of gen z first and second year college kids having a passing knowledge of autism enough to put the pieces together when their friend might have it is just, kind of expected rn. Hell i was more surprised that Dorothy had to Google to find out about things like masking, i thought everyone in our age group knew about that stuff by now.
I mean fuck nerdy billifers probably secretly on discord bc she’s a nerd ass 19 year old and like, every friend you make on discord has *something*. A couple weeks ago i passively helped my friend realize she probably has dyscalculia bc she described things that sounded like my symptoms. My LD boyfriend (also discord) is in the process of seeing specialists for an ADHD diagnosis bc we were all pointing out hes like the poster boy for it, and his dad always jokes the whole family is probably autistic.
Sure, it’s perfectly reasonable that Jennifer (or anyone else) had suspicions, but it’s weird to me that no ever mentioned it before, but that as soon as Sarah mentioned the doctor noticing something she goes right to autism. I mean, it works because that is what the doctor saw, but it would be awkward as hell if the doctor had noticed something else concerning.
Perhaps she pieced it together not only from her observations of joyce, but also from the line joyce closed out yesterday’s strip with.
That’s a bit more plausible. Even just as a reminder of something she’s considered before.
Good thing Jennifer didn’t guess something *else* about Joyce that’s also true and would add to the freakout ^^
Mike contained most of the asshole-ness within him, so when he died it spread out throughout the rest of the cast. That’s my take on it, at least.
I think Joyce’s outburst yesterday could have connected a few dots.
*oddly plays Who by Neil Cicierega*
Then how come you… nah.
I’m not touching that.
Man this is tough. Jennifer has clearly made a point that Billie is not who she is anymore so she shouldn’t need to compromise that but I want her and Joyce to connect here.
Sarah I love you but dial it down a bit.
And I’m going to get ahead of this right now: My stance stays that if someone says they don’t want to be called by a name you should respect that. If Joyce tomorrow decides she can’t talk to Jennifer without her being Billie and Jennifer doesn’t compromise on that then that is her prerogative.
I would hope that’s not where we are heading but I think it’s silly for me to be hopeful.
I wonder if this might be a segue into the next chapter, which is supposedly a flashback to Halloween if Joyce asks Jennifer what exactly made her decide to change so much
Given that we’ve got ten strips to go before that storyline starts, that seems plausible.
If you recognize that the name change is symbolically important to Jennifer’s identity, then perhaps Joyce is saying her new persona isn’t great.
At the very least it’s not what Joyce needs in this moment. I’m interested to see how Jennifer reacts to this in tomorrow’s strip given how firm she’s been about no longer being that person anymore.
Joyce doesn’t get to make that call. I think the comments section has largely agreed deadnaming is wrong v.v trans people but the same courtesy is not extended her and I guess it’s because we think it’s okay to shit on people we don’t like but it doesn’t have to be a gender expression situation. I have friends who don’t like going by their birth name because they’re named after a parent or relative who is a treacherous piece of shit. You don’t get to decide “well that reason is not enough for me to not call you by your preferred name”
Those sure are some broad strokes you’re painting the comments section with. I’d say too broad.
@Devin: You say that but go through any page that Jennifer is in after she’s asked to be called Jennifer and Ctrl+F the comments for Billie.
Hell do it on this page.
Yes, because some people doing it equates to painting the entire breadth of commenters with that brush.
And on top of that doing it on this page is actually a terrible example of that given that the name is a topic of discussion right now.
But go off I guess.
There’s a fucking marinas trench of difference between dead naming a trans person and using an old nickname a cis person dropped.
“but it doesn’t have to be a gender expression situation”
No shit Sherlock–that’s why I give a different example.
The entire point was you don’t get to tell someone that what they want to be called by is invalid, whether is about gender affirmation, personal history or a choice that person made. It’s about respect. If you tell me your name is Zee I don’t get to say nah I think you’re more of a Felicia. Your said your name is Zee your name is zee
Jennifer says she’s Jennifer. She’s Jennifer. This is not hard.
That’s not whats happening though. My nickname is zee. My name is Zoë. An actual comparison would be if i changed my screen name to Zoë and said ay y’all I’m going by zoë now. And commenters kept calling me zee because that’s what they’ve known me as this entire time. Which, idk you can have your opinions on that, i couldn’t give two shits. You can have opinions on people calling her Billie over Jennifer or whatever but like, you can’t compare it to deadnaming. That’s a massive false equivalence. Even if you say “it doesn’t have to be a gender identity thing”, you’re still comparing the two.
Alsoooo Billie is a fictional character. If the characters in the story insist on ignoring her preferred name, sure whatever, that’s dickish. But she’s not real. She’s not plural or trans. Commenters using her old nickname doesn’t actually have any effect on anything the way, say, deadnaming Jocelyn or insisting on calling amazi-girl amber would. “Disliking an old nickname” isn’t such a protected class that it would be morally questionable so use the incorrect name even for a fictional character.
I’m gonna call her Billie because she’s not real and it doesn’t matter. If she were real, I’d call her Jennifer because she’d be a real human being with feelings.
That’s not the same though. This is me knowing you were Zoe for our entire interaction and then you, randomly to me, decide to go by any other name. I don’t get to say that’s not valid and continue to call you Zoe if you’ve told me to call you something else. It doesn’t matter why you want to be called something different. That’s your name and that’s your right to tell people what you want to be called. The reason for the name change does not matter from my end. My responsibility is to respect the person who has asked me to call them by a different name. That is literally it. Why is it that hard to extend common decency here
Because Billie isn’t real, so it doesn’t matter. I don’t owe a fictional cis teenager common decency
Yeah, if we started treating fake characters like real people, this website would be even more unusable.
@Taffy I’m pretty sure that’s a root cause of how bad it is as is.
Pff, true. I wonder if there’s a lesson to be learned from that.
Sarah doesn’t know that dials have a down side.
So, let’s summarize: Joyce had NOT told Sarah that she didn’t want company, despite what people were saying to defend Sarah.
Specifically the person who said that the existence of telephones means that we can assume Joyce didn’t want Jennifer’s presence, was just proven wrong.
Yesterday’s Sarah remains an asshole, and today’s Sarah isn’t that much better as she’s still arguing with Joyce over this and trying to control her interactions with other people.
It’s really sinking in for me just how much the release schedule impacts our experience of the events in the comic. The span of in-comic time between yesterday’s Sarah and today’s Sarah is, what, 15-30 seconds? Maybe a minute, tops?
Like, when any of us out here in meatspace has a bad day, we’re cranky for a few hours, and maybe we even snap at our loved ones, but everyone else is already dealing with their own things and we can all go to bed and try again tomorrow. When a character is having a bad day, those of us on the drip-feed see them with that attitude for the span of weeks, maybe months.
I bet the conflict is going to make a lot more sense re-reading this arc in an archive binge.
Fingers crossed. These past weeks have been the first time in over half a decade that I haven’t been all that excited to check the update every night before bed.
Yeah, I think the timeframe has a huge impact on how people perceive it. In a bunch of days’ comment section, a whole lot of the discussion is speculation about what’s going to happen in the next moment and anticipation of reactions. A lot of folks’ reactions to recent trends in characterization are still kind of limited to brief interactions that aren’t necessarily a perfect reflection of all parts of that character.
I started reading a couple years ago and once I was caught up, I was genuinely shocked by the vitriol that the comments have for these characters for what to them is just a couple seconds out of their lives. Like I get WHY, but there’s no need for us to be so harshly scrutinous.
The past two days have been bad, and yet somehow not as bad as the Joyce v. Dina spanking discourse.
Yeah, I had the exact same experience catching up a few months ago. It’s genuinley fascinating how getting a comic a day makes people latch on really hard to offhanded jokes in the comic and minor interactions.
So many of these small character interactions wash over you like water when you read the comic like, as an actual sequential story.
You might have read the “existence of phones” thing a little too literally/directly, tbh.
You just made me smile, Magikuriboh! 😊
If phones didn’t exist, how would we cut things?
Sarah’s being overly harsh, yes, but it’s making me wonder if this is more fallout from halloween? Like, did Billie back slide after the Ruth only to then distance herself from everyone? It feels like we’re missing context. I know Billie and Sarah were never buddies exactly, but I don’t think Sarah was this hostile before? Heck, they bonded once over pranking walky and Dorothy…
*Ruth break-up. Argh, what is proof reading…
I’ll be honest, i didn’t even read yesterdays comments and this is one of the pettiest things i’ve read on this entire site.
It’s like, needlessly targeted, too.
You’d be annoyed too if someone said something to the point of “spoiler, I’m proven right tomorrow, I know this via patreon”, in defense of their insane argument, and it wasn’t even true.
Like I said before, I’m not playing this stupid game. Your bizarre interpretation of somebody else’s reply doesn’t give you the right to act like a fucking child when it doesn’t line up with reality. Grow the fuck up.
The fact that you’re carrying an argument over from yesterday unprompted is absolutely wild in how petty it is.
When the comments section was bothering me to the point of affecting my level of happiness, I disengaged for a while. I think you should consider doing the same, this isn’t good for anyone.
My biggest worry here is that someone thought Sarah was not an asshole prior to yesterday’s strip.
I mean that’s one way to get to talk to her how you want.
Looking forward to seeing how this goes.
Lordt
I am agreeing with the comments from previous days in that it seems after the time-skip nearly all the characters seem to have taken on a new level of meaness and cruelty and nearly all the positive character development seems to have vanished.
Sarah seems outright happy in the third panel at the idea of throwing out Billie
I mean it’s true, but Sarah was never that great a person. She’s a self labelled misanthrope. She knows she’s an asshole and openly embraces it because she doesn’t like interacting with people with only a few exceptions. Jennifer is not one of those exceptions.
Agreed; I seriously do not understand where all of the in-universe negativity is coming from lately. Everybody has been shitty to everybody, rarely with any significant reason to be. Becky & Joyce’s argument about religion made sense, at least…but this? Sarah being shitty to Dorothy a few days ago (with some pretty offensive cracks about autism sprinkled throughout) is another one that just does not track for me on any level.
Who are these people and why are they all actively trying to hurt each other?
I think some people might need to go back and read some Sarah centric strips cause this attitude is not a change for her. I think people are getting a bit confused. Dorothy is not Sarah’s friend. Jennifer is not Sarah’s friend. In fact, you could argue Sarah probably really dislikes Jennifer cause of interactions like this.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/swak/
So of course, she’s gonna be an asshole to her. Sarah only really has two friends. Dina and Joyce, the rest are people she tolerates because her friends hang out with them. Even Becky isn’t someone she’d elect to spend a casual lunch with by choice. Sarah’s comments do have a little more bite, but she is not suddenly an asshole. She’s always been one.
As a fellow asshole speaking on Sarah’s behalf, I feel like Sarah has a curmudgeonly “acquaintance” level of friendship with Dotty, and clearly at least values Becky for what she brings to Dina and Joyce as a lover/friend or she wouldn’t have put any effort into getting Joyce to try and mend fences,
however, goddamn do I feel foolish for ever thinking Sarah and Jennifer had a good relationship that soured over Halloween lmao. No, no, this is just Sarah has much less tolerance for someone she has always despised.
Yeah nah, the only positive interaction Sarah and Jennifer have had was when they worked together to turn a hose on Dorothy and Walky. And even that was precluded by ‘that was almost a nice thing you said about me.’ ‘you take that back.’
Yeah this is Average Sarah Shit
It makes sense, she has an extremely antagonistic relationship to her, a very protective one with joyce, and jennifer just implied she clearly does not have anything nuanced to bring to this situation (in her eyes, at least)
Having recently reread the comic
Meh, like, barely. Joyce is a bit more abrasive at times for obvious reasons. Sarah’s just being Sarah, maybe a little overbearing at times. Walkys Walky, Dina just has more of an active role, Becky’s being a bit more dickish but i think that’s more to do with she’s in a state of stability rn vs constantly being in danger since her introduction, meaning her trauma responses and coping mechanisms are, kind of inappropriate for the situation but you can’t just. Stop having coping mechanisms. That’s not how that works. She needs to talk to Leslie. Amber’s worse but… Okay well I’m not gonna comment on amber too much given I’m negatively biased, i never liked her. Sal’s definitely better, she’s way healthier. She’s no longer codependent on marcy, she’s in rollerderby which is social and a healthy outlet, she has her adorable relationship with Danny, a decent relationship with walky. And a better relationship with her hair. Billies like, better in behavior but the whole Jennifer persona is annoying personally, but that’s not really a failing or anything. The thing with Ruth and daisy is just, classic Billie. No better or worse than something she’d do before. Danny’s been a sweetheart, Ethan is a special case, Ruth’s been off because of the breakup but still better than where she started. Jason’s, hotter at least. Joe is an objective improvement. Dorothy probably has the strongest argument for some character degradation, she has been weird but i don’t doubt it’ll be addressed.
I think people are being a bit rose tinted with their view of season one, the characters were always pretty snippy with each other.
Conflict is more internal than external now ig
So I don’t think anyone in Joyce’s social circle is able to “handle this” other then provide some sort of emotional support which so far they been really zero for three (i mean two tried and i dont really they’re doing a good job handling all the stress and pain Joyce is feeling not even offering to give or get her some Midol) i also say three beacuse i think cause its been Sarah Dotty Dina I’m not counting Carla or Ruth beqcuse the haven’t interacted directly with Joyce. so hopefully Jennifer or Billie can at least do the bare minmum here.
Oh yeah she’s having a meltdown. I’ve been there
My, how abelist of you, Jennifer.
Going back and seeing their early interactions, and man Sarah as ALWAYS been incredibly rude and judgmental to Billie for no reason other than she decided Billie is too much of a sexually free party girl. Now I’m wondering how Sarah is any different from Mary; she interacts with Billie negatively because she has decided drinking and sex are bad. Meanwhile Billie did nothing but friendly overtures.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/bridges/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/reservations/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/mission/
You don’t think this, which was part of their first direct interaction, reminded Sarah at all of Dana, whose problems nearly derailed Sarah’s chances of higher education?
I think your reading is incredibly uncharitable. Sarah has a history of pushing people away, especially early in their interactions, and we’ve only gotten little glimpses as to why. I’m not saying Sarah is behaving in the best way, but in the early days of their interactions, Billie was working very hard to establish herself as a party girl and continued to act in ways that were destructive not just for her, but also the people around her for as long as she lived next door, and those behaviors played a large part in why she no longer lives next door to Sarah and Joyce.
Despite Jennifer’s insistence that she’s reinvented herself, that’s hardly ever how people actually work. Change happens slowly and with a lot of work, and it’s not reasonable to ask that people pretend that the person you were at least a month or so ago and at most maybe three or four just doesn’t exist anymore and she should be treated as if she was Better. That has to be earned.
The alt-text on this strip where Sarah confronts Becky also sheds some light on Sarah’s current demeanor, I think.
One can disapprove of the party life and distance themselves from a party girl without saying “blegh” to her face or saying “I don’t care if SHE comes home drunk, arrested and pregnant” right in front of her.
If Sarah doesn’t bother to hide her animosity from people she disapproves, what makes her so different from Mary? They have different motivations yes, but Mary also loudly announces who she disproves of and why, often right in front of that person.
Goal posts successfully moved.
Before she was like Mary because of the judgement about sexuality. Now she’s like Mary for a different reason.
huh? what’s the different reason now? I still say that Sarah is being awfully judgmental of Billie for her sexuality AND party habits. What goalposts have I moved?
I think there is a bit of a difference, and the nuance is this:
Sarah is only at the university thanks to a scholarship, and she’s been consistently eager to avoid any potential legal trouble. Not to mention she’s Black, so if anything does go wrong she’s likely to get punished harder than her peers. (I’m not Black myself, but I AM very visibly queer and am always cognizant of how authorities would treat that.)
Alcohol or other drugs being in your dorm room is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL in a lot of colleges, and sometimes it doesn’t even matter if you were in on it. So, Billie instantly asking where to find the ~hot party action~ would be a massive red flag to her. Sarah had no reason to believe Billie wouldn’t be willing to rope Joyce or even Sarah herself into something illegal and college career-ending. This is probably why she preemptively got the college involved in regards to her ex-roommate too – turning her in likely protected Sarah from being considered complicit in it.
To summarize, I think Sarah’s issues are less moral preachiness like Mary (whose ideology is based solely on theoretical virtue), and instead entirely based on pragmatic reality (Sarah’s perception of it, at least).
I hope this makes sense…? I’m just very aware of how this can go because both my husband and I almost got in trouble in college because of roommates bringing alcohol into our rooms – in one case without even asking permission! – at a zero tolerance school. Some schools DO NOT care and WILL kick you out no questions asked. :C
And to clarify about myself: by ‘visibly queer’ I mean I have obvious boobs and a beard. There is no world in which someone wouldn’t clock me or at least be suspicious haha.
So I think about optics… a lot. Is that fair? Obviously not. ;~; But it is what it is.
I’ll say Doki, you make some very good points here.
Points that reflect an unfortunate reality. And one that has more than enough statistics to back it up. For instance, blacks and other minorities use cannabis just as much as whites do, but are more than 4x more likely to get arrested for it. In fact its very prohibition and accompanying propaganda were pushed for the sole purpose of disproportionate enforcement on disadvantaged groups in the first place.
Sorry if that’s a little bit tangential, just wanted to reinforce the important details you noted. Between what Sarah, Sal and Dina had to put up with, one of my favorite things about this comic is the open and honest exploration and subsequent discussion of systematic bigotry.
Thanks! I try. 😀
And yeah. I think this is a nuance that’s easy to overlook, but very relevant to some people’s lives. (Namely, people who can’t ‘pass’ as white, cishet, and/or neurotypical.) And I know Sarah tends to be grumpy and standoffish in general, but… giving her the benefit of the doubt, I think that’s what’s going on with her? At least, I think it’s one of the factors she has to consider that other characters may not have to. :C
(Also, I accidentally flagged your comment dskfjsdjfffff. Sorry about that!)
Truly, “I don’t like you” is just the same as “your existence is invalid, you abomination, and you’ll suffer for eternity, but before that I’ll do my best to make sure you have as few rights as possible”. There is no difference between them.
I live in a world where someone tried to kill me over my choice of transportation, tell me about existence being invalid.
I HAD heard US drivers AIM for cyclists. I’m sorry people are shitty. 🙁
If the worst thing about Mary was that she “loudly announces who she disproves of and why, often right in front of that person” rather than that she snoops and saves up information to blackmail suicidally depressed people, then you’d be right.
See, i feel like those early interactions are only about billie on the surface. I think that for Sarah, at that time, billie was the stand in for the “college party culture” she didn’t want her new roommate to fall into after the whole situation with Dana and how drugs played into it.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/swak/
This also happened, and the Billie takes Joyce to a party where Joyce gets roofie’d. Sarah has no good reasons to like Jennifer. And she is just… not nice to people she doesn’t like and thinks are bad for others around them (especially Joyce).
Jennifer didn’t “take” Joyce to a party. Dorothy and Joyce went to a party so Dorothy could interview Roz about her dorm room sex tape (who made Dorothy attending said party the precondition of the interview), Jennifer overheard, and tagged along. Joyce would have been there whether Jennifer was or not, and there was no implicit understanding that Jennifer was responsible for Joyce’s safety. (Not that I blame Dorothy for Joyce subsequently being targeted and assaulted by an attempted rapist…but…if anyone was implicitly in charge of looking after the very naive and inexperienced home-schooler at her first college party with booze, it was Dorothy.)
Oh, Joyce
Yeah this isn’t really doing anything to improve my impression that Jennifer’s an ass
She is at best being kind of insensitive here. And it’s pretty consistent with ways she was insensitive before her alleged reinvention.
“Kind of insensitive”? She says “I speak nerd” in relation to Joyce’s autism.
Yeah? So what?
Honestly I’d rather people see me as a nerd first. But that’s just me.
In the most charitable possible reading (thus at best), the “I speak nerd” could be interpreted as being in opposition with “stacking miniskirted girls into a pyramid”, as opposed to being directly intentionally connected to autism.
I’m trying to at least acknowledge more generous readings, because that just…doesn’t happen a lot in these comments sections.
Every few days a new character has to be the worst person who ever lived based on shaky reasons or the whole comments section will explode into a giant ball of nuclear fire.
No not Danny.
Pretty sure Danny had his turn with the whole thing with Ethan while Mike was still alive.
Tbh, as an autistic, I’ll say given how the Venn diagram of social stereotypes of autistic people and social stereotypes of nerds resembles a circle, she’s really just saying the quiet part of social bias against autistic people out loud.
And, tbh, give me a dozen Jennifers who parrot social stigma but when the chips are down are supportive and caring (if abrasive) over a Raidah who cloaks her bias in a veneer of condescending fake kindness like I can’t tell she’s speaking to me like I’m 5 and cares more about the appearance of being caring and considerate than actually being caring and considerate.
Not to say that what Jennifer’s doing is necessarily great, but more that I don’t think Jennifer intends the level of malice being attributed to her. I tend to watch people’s actions more than their words – and Jennifer’s actions have been supportive this story arc.
I want to politely disagree about the Venn Diagram part.
In terms of the stereotypes thay actively guide people’s thinking in the world at large, the nerd circle is a LOT broader than the autistic** circle, or the autistic** circle is much more narrow with very harmful stereotypes of mental “illness” mixed in.
Being a nerd is one thing. But I learned the hard way that in the world at large, disclosing of autism** leads to especially horrible treatment they don’t dish out to just ANY “nerd”.
** definitions, connotations and dangerous or even violent prejudices towards this word/concept will vary depending on who you talk to and where you live. Evoke and identify with it at your own risk.
I 100% agree with you! Thank you for bringing this up. I too was a bit uncomfortable with the autistic = nerd thing. I understand some people may be comfortable conflating them, but I’m… not. So again, thank you for being the person to actually say this. ;w;
‘Nerd’ used to be far more of an insult. But… acceptance of geeky people has gotten significantly better as more ‘nerdy’ activities are considered mainstream (and the massive popularity of properties like Marvel, Skyrim, and Game Of Thrones only that). Autistic acceptance, unfortunately, still lags far behind. ;~;
I feel the need to clarify that I have a nerdy autistic husband, so I’m fine with both of these things LOL. (And I’m a different flavor of non-neurotypical myself1) I just don’t think it’s productive or helpful to the real people in both of those categories to buy into the stereotypes, even in a lighthearted way. No offense meant to anyone in this comment thread, though, I promise!
Jennifer’s ass though makes an excellent impression
Not gonna lie; I kinda wanna see how far Sarah could YEET Jennifer
Sarah and Billie should make out
Giving Yoto fuel, huh
Yotomoe your time has come.
With Mike dead, the hatefuck void must be filled, it is known
not the only void needing filled 😏 BAZINGA
Damn, but Willis has been landing the punchlines lately. The last week or so has just been so good.
Predictably, some people are being judgmental toward Joyce over today’s punchline even though it’s clearly not being meant seriously either by the story or by in-universe character
This comment section demonstrably cannot have nice things
Sigh.
I think people are misunderstanding Joyce’s request, she doesn’t give a slight fuck what Jennifer calls herself but Jennifer is a much bigger conga now than she was then mad I think Joyce is saying she wants her to act like her old self again
That’s the way I interpreted it, too.
On the topic of changes that we can control, changes we can’t, and accepting loss as we grow older and our bodies and relationships change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfyP5zbQmc
“Animal,” by the incomparable Jean Rohe.
“Wanted, my best friend but not changing so much so quickly”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/discreet/
First Sarah had to hug her awful sister*, and now Joyce won’t even let her experience the pure joy of yeeting an ex-cheerleader
when will this endless wickedness** towards the beautiful Sarah end, I ask you???
*: sarcasm tag
**: even more sarcasm tag
This comment section has gotten ridiculous…
What do you call a cow thats a bad milker?
A milkdud
What do you call an alligator in a vest?
An investigator.
I mean, I know it was no news to anyone that Sarah’s insufferable and antagonistic for barely any reason at all, but the way here that she’s not even asking for Joyce’s opinion on Jennifer being there and still arguing with her when she (potentially) was in favour, just colours her as not “protective”, but just as controlling. She is not being a good friend here, she’s pretty much just trying to use Joyce’s current condition as an excuse to be mean to someone who’s trying to actually help her. Just add religious extremism and she’s as bad as Mary.
yes, Sarah is well known for her transphobia, blackmail, and open desire to kill the poor
It’s like people have forgotten about Book 5, when Sarah burned down that orphanage just for lulz.
And after tying Dorothy to the train tracks, too!
Okay, in Sarah’s defense there, Dorothy had been dropping some very heavy hints at having a rope-and-trains kink, but since the dialogue in those four strips was very “Who’s on first?”, I think we can forgive Sarah for that misinterpretation.
She poisoned their water supply, burned their crops and delivered a plague unto their houses!
Stole their wives to boot!
Let’s be honest, those wives were bored anyway. Sarah’s dapper highwayman outfit and listening skills just pushed the ball over the edge, so to speak.
Sorry, flagged your reply.
“She DID!?”
Can’t believe no one’s taken you up on the quote yet.
No, but are we gonna wait around until she does!?
(Thank you for picking that up! One must never forget the classics.)
Oh, was that from something?
What.
“Sarah is cranky and has a shitty attitude. If you add in some extreme bigotry then she’s just as bad as a bigot.”
Yes. If you completely change one character so that they act like another, then those two characters will be extremely similar. BUT, since they’re not actually at all similar, maybe you could stop comparing “isn’t nice” to “is actively evil”?
Wait ’til we see what happens if you draw devil horns and a Hitler mustache onto her face. Then she’d look pretty sinister.
Being mean = actively harassing a marginalized floor mate with hate speech with the goal of them moving out or taking a sewer slide, and trying to capitalize of of the fact that you pushed your own superior to wanna take a slide down a sewer herself
Touch grass, please
Or if that’s not your style, help a neurodivergent like me make a video game! 😁
I tried folks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I know you’re excited, but the amount of times you derail a comment thread and center yourself, your game, or some other spammy content… it’s too much.
I know you mean well by saying that, but it’s worth noting that helping others and helping yourself are NOT mutually exclusive or zero-sum in nature.
The creator of Mario once said himself that “a good idea is something that not only solves one problem, but can solve multiple problems at once”.
If DiktatorSquid up there helps me with my game, they benefit through a way to take their mind off things and feel better, I benefit through getting help on this creative project to occupy myself and feel better too, and a large amount of commenters in this community benefit by getting one step closer to playing a passionately crafted Dumbing of Age Video Game.
Is the whole place not better off as a result of offering a role in the creation of this game?
In fact I am actually making this game and offering help like this because I love this comic and it’s community so much and want to give back to it, show how much i appreciate Willis’s work and all his fans.
I know this is from yesterday but it really feels like you’re not taking the gentle hints people have been trying to give you for months, and a certain point it feels like you’re doing so on purpose. Wellerman, you center yourself constantly in the comments section and it is exhausting. This doesn’t make you a bad parasite or anything, but the song and dance of people bringing these things up and you pivoting to victimize yourself or play dumb to the point you’re making is turning people away from bothering to enagage. Nova is not gatekeeping spam, that sentence makes no sense. It’s okay to listen to other people and the things they are saying – they aren’t personal attacks! More food for thought.
to the point they’re making*
“some other spammy content”
I suspect you have good intentions, but what exactly do you intend to achieve by gate-keeping the concept of “spam”?
How about they compromise and she gets Yunru?
I’m very surprised by Joyce’s request. She knows how much Jennifer care about that and she’s asking her to ignore all the effort she has made in the past months because she has a crisis? Jennifer just wants to knows is her (best?) friend is OK and this is the response? Maybe the one Sarah needs to kick out the room is Joyce.
I mean, Jennifer can choose not to acquisce to the request and then get the fuck out of Joyce’s and Sarah’s room. It’s perfectly reasonable of Joyce to make her own comfort a condition of someone interacting with her in her own room when she’s feeling like shit.
Like yeah, it’s silly that Joyce refuses to accept Jennifer’s changes, but also right now she’s fully within her rights to assert all the silly she wants.
I’m not, if for no other reason than to Joyce, “Billie” was a source of comfort and safety in crisis and “Jennifer” has been distant and unsupportive. The audience knows Jennifer hates who she used to be and is trying to reinvent herself in an image that feels more congruent with how she sees herself, away from the expectations of others to be Billie, but all Joyce sees is that her friend who was awesome in a crisis and helped protect her from a worst case scenario of her mother finding out she went to a party with booze and got roofied is suddenly calling herself a different name and wants nothing to do with her.
She’s not really expressing it well, but even NT people don’t word stuff well when they’re upset and many autistic folks lose access to words when we get upset enough.
(today in-story excepted. Joyce made a comment at the start of the period drama to the effect that Jennifer doesn’t like her anymore so she’s surprised Jennifer wants to help, so that speaks pretty clearly that Jennifer’s been rejecting Joyce off screen about as much as much as Wally on-screen. Jennifer reaching out and being supportive friend today is the exception to the rule of the past few months, and Joyce wants her old friend who could be counted on as supportive and experienced.)
I agree with this. This is where my head’s been at. Billie/Jennifer is more than a change of name and behaviour, it was an entire rejection of who she was and incidentally of who she was around.
Plus, Joyce is in a place that is very painful and confusing. She’s in pain, has expressed that she’s overstimulated (by lights, voices and people), and got a big shock. She’s reacting the way that I do, regressing to almost childishness, seeking comfort, safety and familiarity, with big emotions and not-great-cognition.
Now I feel sad for Joyce. She just wants her old friend back♡, but Billie can’t return. Jennifer is different, more distant and all, but even if she said that being her closest friend was a sign something in her life was totally wrong, she still care about her a lot. Jennifer has all the right to go away angry for the request. But she probably will stay.
Tbh like even though I am not surprised I do appreciate Sarah – who damn near despises Jennifer – still stands up for Jennifer’s right to be true to who she wants to be. It’s a big part of why I like Sarah, as curmudgeonly as she can be. Sarah won’t blow smoke up your ass pretending to like you, but she also won’t let you be mistreated even if she personally dislikes you. I can appreciate that.
Joyce in not asking Jennefer to drink, have sex or do drugs.
Joyce is not asking that Jennefer never be Jennefer around her again.
Joyce is essentially asking her to for a little while drop her whole self improvement stick, stop asserting that she’s a different person than the person Joyce was actually friends with and be the alpha mother K9 problem solver again.
Joyce is asking Jennifer to be someone she has stated she didn’t like being. This is a huge no-no.
It’s just weird because Jennifer is also that person. She’s the one who got Joyce to the doctor.
I’m not even sure what Joyce thinks the difference between Billie and Jennifer is or if it matches at all with the reasons Jennifer isn’t using the name anymore.
To me it seemed like she let down her Jennefer persona for a little while because Joyce needs help and her friends are not doing anything.
Or maybe, just maybe, they’re really not that different.
I love how Joyce is already weaponizing the thing, you go girl!
I understand Sarah’s attitude very well, but I also feel like Billie will handle this just fine. Between the instant guess at what’s going on and the “I can handle nerds” I get the impression that she really does have experience with this?
Just for the sake of contrast. This is Dumbing of Age, and if you read the several descriptions of the comic in the webpage and other places, adjectives like “dumb”, “wrong”, and “dysfunctional” abound. I do not expect this comic strip to be populated by perfect human beings that are always doing the right thing for those around them. In fact, I expect the opposite. But I find the main cast and a good part of the secondary cast utterly lovable anyway, and that’s why I keep reading it.
THIS!!!
Right? Willis is REALLY good at writing characters; the degree to which readers get invested in them is testament to that skill. But it seems like that investment tends to cause (what is to me) a weird amount of both lionization and demonization. These are a) human characters with flaws who will inevitably not do the right thing all the time and b) TEENAGERS, ffs.
Plus, how many times has a character caused a flurry of “Worst Person Ever” comments, only to be at least partially redeemed a few (or many) strips later? Or one of the commenters’ golden children be shown to maybe not quite so perfect as originally thought?
Maybe this bugs me more than it should (fandom gonna fan, amirite?) but I can’t help but wonder if readers are showing this little charity to fictional characters, how much do they allow those IRL?
I sometimes benefit from being a little slow-witted; I can’t think of anything to say right off (while having thoughts that turn out later to be completely wrong) so I end up looking wise.
Mind you, the words sometimes come quickly and easily even IRL and I end up acting like an ass.
Or not redeemed at all, but just comes into conflict with a different character and thus all flaws can be overlooked in favor of bashing the next character.
Especially since I mean well but still haven’t outgrown all the flaws these teenagers are showing! (Not that it’s clear that there’s an exact amount of helping a person someone is supposed to do—it seems like any amount is too much/little depending on the reader.) I should try to be more like Sarah if the world is judging me like they judge Dorothy or Jennifer etc.
I have an odd (and completely unrelated to the on-going arc) question: do universities really use red carpeting in rooms?
Red would be a VERY poor choice for a room color scheme.
Accidentally flagged trying to hot reply – sorry Willis!
As for my reply: mine had several shades of beige. Off-white on the ceiling. Then, to be exciting, a splash of medium grey in the trim.
Would’ve killed for some red, tbh.
Or really anything that didn’t make me wonder if I’d stepped into a sepia film.
It hides the bloodstains from the inevitable shooting victims.
Nah, the students here are a little old for that.
I’ve had numerous discussions with University Marketing & Communications on their over use of red in everything. Luckily they’re finally backing off from it. Of course now I’m retiring in 5 weeks.
Call that your legacy! I call that a pretty decent legacy.
Panel one Joyce? All I can say for myself is “I’m in this and I don’t like it”.
And when the subject was broached for me I was not her age, but more like her parents’.
Can relate. Telling folks I’m likely autistic was for me extremely anti-climactic because damn near everyone had some variation on, “Hm, that tracks” or “wait, you weren’t already?” Or “Oh. OH. Oh, of course you are!”
It got to be frustrating. Like, god damn it can’t ONE of you be as surprised as I am on this?!
(My parents were, but turned out that was just denial because if I’m autistic my dad must be too and he’s “normal” sooooo…
Yeah funny story, 3 years later he screened positive)
For me it was the opposite. My mum was walking on eggshells about telling me because she was afraid that I would react poorly to being told I was on the tism spectrum.
And yet, my reaction was “Oh that makes a lot of sense”
For me I hadn’t reacted negatively, but it was still a surprise but like an “Oh this explains everything!”
Wait, does Jennifer think being nerdy and autistic are the same thing? That’s a huge yikes.
I guess it’s about how autistic people like to collect lots of information about their interests?
Sarah suggested she’s only good at interacting with cheerleaders (stacking miniskirted girls into pyramids) so she’s saying she can interact with nerds as well. I don’t think the autism has anything to do with it.
TBH there are tons of autistic nerds. It’s almost like being a nerd was a symptom or something.
I think Jennifer views anyone who isn’t “cool” as a nerd. And Joyce most assuredly is not, and never has been, Jennifer’s idea of “cool.”
I mean, there’s… heavy, heavy, heavy overlap.
I work with college students, in a role where I really can’t say much. And I think about how desperately I clung in college to what I thought I was and what I thought was normal, and how it’s affected my life in the decades after, I have to tell my brain to change the subject fast. Sometimes it’s just too much.
Don’t let anyone make you Billie again, Jennifer
What if Jennifer decides to be Billie tho?
I better see that fucking name tag change
If amazi-girl gets a tag change so should she
Amazi-Girl is a separate* person. Billie is just a nickname.
*Is “distinct” a better word? It’s the same body, but I’m not versed in the lingo.
Amazi-girl didn’t get a tag change, she has (had?) separate tags from Amber. This is an entirely different situation.
You DID see a tag change. Jennifer used to be tagged “billie”.
1. Five Guys when I want take out, one patty, bacon, mayo, hot sauce. grilled jalapenos when I’m in the mood. No Fries. I’m lucky to have several sit down restaurants with excellent but not inexpensive burgers.
2. Man, I liked a lot of shows as a kid so it kind of needs to be narrowed down a bit. Primetime? Afternoon reruns? Saturday mornings? We didn’t have cable until I was a tweener. Astroboy. Speed racer. Kimba. Star Trek (TOS before it was called that – yeah, I’m that old). Once I started playing guitar I watched a lot less television.
3. I don’t know nothing about video stuff, I kind of topped out at Missile Command on Atari. When I started on the computer, the only game I played was Solitaire. It might be on Apple but I’ve never bothered to look when I switched from PC
Man this got thoroughly misplaced
Fellow Old, what’s your opinion of Space Ghost vs Space Ghost Coast -to-Coast?
„the doctor said i can’t have sudden change, so you aren’t allowed to change“ ……. uuuuuuh VERY RELATABLE, but not acceptable 😉
This could become a foreshadowing for when Joyce will discovers that one of her siblings is actually a sister.
I literally just accidentally flagged a comment twice in a row dammit.
I’m not even going to reply now there’s no point. The moment is ruined
It took me way too long to realize Sarah was referring to cheerleaders when she said “stacking miniskirted girls into a pyramid”.
Well now I’m curious what you THOUGHT she was referring to before you realized this…
Keg stands?
Some really wild porn. Orgy porn.
The fact Jennifer gets as much shit has she does despite being the only person who has done anything to attempt to improve the situation this storyline is mindboggling
I’m inclined to agree. She’s literally just trying to follow up and check in on Joyce, something that nobody else seems willing to do. Sarah lives there, so she gets no points for being present, but come on, her two “closest friends” haven’t bothered? Even if she told everyone to fuck off, I think Joyce would at least appreciate the gesture later.
Oops I just reported you instead of replying by accident.
I just saw like 5 comments of people saying they did that and thinking “haha, that’s so silly! I would never do that!” and then I immediately did it. Dammit
The funny part about this whole “sorry for flagging you” thing is, nobody would ever know if y’all didn’t tattle on yerselves.
Yeeeeep.
Dorothy was right there last time we saw Joyce. Not clear how long it’s been, but probably not that long.
Becky doesn’t know and is feuding with Joyce anyway.
Oh yeah, I sorta forgot about Joyce and Becky’s ridiculous secret-keeping thing.
And now Dina’s caught in the middle of it…
She deserves better.
You said it fam fam!!!
It’s worth noting that regardless of how long its actually been last Dorothy saw Joyce Joyce had expressed that she wanted to sleep, I think Dorothy can be forgiven for giving it a day before checking back in with Joyce
joyce is the voice of the audience today
in panel four, to be clear.
Nope. Jennifer over Billie.
Aaghghhh i accidentally flagged a comment instead of responding AGAIN that’s the third time today
This literally has only happened to me like once before in my 10 years of reading this comic
Anyway you’d have a point if Jennifer’s attempt to reinvent herself wasn’t blatantly full of shit
Below is all comments on craft (not comments on if these are real people, but comments because they are created characters in a universe):
Sarah is such a neat dichotomy. She acts like a jerk, but she also uses her jerkiness to tell other people not to not act like jerks. Like here she’s reminding Joyce that asking for someone to change back (or to go by an earlier name) is an unreasonable demand, which it is. (Or maybe she meant something else by that last comment?) And then all the mirroring with Dorothy the other day to make it clearer to Dorothy about the possible effects of comments rather than just straight up saying dude, have you thought about this.
And it’s neat how Joyce is doing to herself what Dorothy was doing– here’s the label, that means she should be able to act more like the label. (The “tired from masking” the other day vs. “respond adversely to changes in scheduled routine” today.)
Also, I gotta say I love how meta the mouseover was today. Grow!
Yeah, I didn’t get that alt-text at all. Thoughts?
Start growing her pony tail. Start growing into Jennifer, which is the opposite of what growing a ponytail would do. Joyce has been learning and growing and changing. Everyone still las lots of growing to do.
Oh, yes, that’s a great way to think about it! Thanks!
Dumbing of Age Book 12: How Come Everyone Else Figures This Out About Me Except Me?!