It’s weird. I have a voice in my head for Dina that I’m pretty sure came from somewhere, but absolutely no idea where that somewhere is or how to describe it.
The best thing to do when someone insults you is to forget about it and pretend it never happened, until the next time you get into a fight with them, where you will conveniently remember all the terrible shit they said to you so you can throw it back in their face.
After all, revenge is a dish best served all at once.
I thought it was to pretend to forget the insult until you could lure them into a crypt with the promise of a cask of amontillado and then wall them inside forever.
Pro-Tip: when promising Amontillado, do not use “quick set” use regular mortar. Mix it up just before you change clothes and go to the party to fetch your victim,… er, subject.then lure his drunk ass to the scene of … to the construction site.
That will only work with most recent crypts, old ones require a certain amount of chalk in the mortar that will take a few weeks/month to dry. The trick is to wall people inside that is slightly curved so they risk to perish under heavy. Another trick would be to have a party of accomplices to move really big rocks to make a dry wall – make sure to have mason with you, dry walling can have a lot of embushes.
Whatver you choose, don’t forget to take your time checking levels, you don’t want a moist palace crumble around its death-cave for an uneven wall.
I was tired while commenting, can you tell by the missing words and crumbling syntax?
Well most important, I failed to translate properly the main word around which I based my comment, which is not chalk (craie or argile) but lime (chaux)… not that it ain’t tricky, bc Lehm that ressembles the word lime is clay (or even chalk, depending of level of chalk in the clay) while Kalk that ressembles chalk is rather chaux (lime). Yay for false-friending in three languages.
I don’t think they hate each other or anything, but they’ve always had issues. Creationism vs Science, Joyce saying she was “like a kid” when Becky kissed her, and yes, the robot thing.
I do think the two have potential to be friends, like actual friends, but it’s going to take some understanding, and they’re not there right now.
They don’t hate each other. I think they both care about Becky too much for that, but I don’t think they’d spend much or any time together if Becky didn’t exist.
Honestly. i would enjoy a snarky Dina from time to time cause its something rather unexpected and in this more surprising and funny, which is much much better then seeing Malaya or Carla who are just egotistical A-holes all the time.
I was just posting on a forum thread about literally that. “So, this autistic special interest thing. Do you have it? Does it always play out like in the stereotypes or the diagnostic criteria?” People on the thread had a VERY wide range of experiences. Me, I have extremely strong interests, but I don’t do the “hyperfocus on memorising details” thing at all.
I guess that’s true, sorry if I was came off insensitive,
It’s just that I really really miss being able to hyperfocus on science like I used to.
I haven’t felt the spark in SO SO long, and sometimes I worry I’ve lost this stripe, and that I’ll never be able to feel cognitive euphoria like that again
Been there. Been deep in there, worrying if I’d lost my smarts or something, or just feel today behind. But I got it back, recently. Writing this to let you know it’s not a one way street. Sometimes you gotta work through other stuff first, get over insecurities, stop worrying so much. Because, fun fact, you can’t really focus on science while you’re worrying about whether you’ll be able to focus. So, take it easy 🙂
In an ideal universe, ‘Normal’ would simply be a shorthand for “This is my headspace today.” Comparisons to others might be the way that society sets the bar for ‘normal’, but it’s hardly a foolproof metric. You are you; you are not them, and they are not you. So you be you. If other people think that’s not ‘normal’, then that’s on them (rider: this applies to all behaviours not actively breaking local laws, including the laws of physics).
This is a very narrow, stifling view of personal normality. If I wanna travel at FTL speeds or double-jump across a wide gap during casual conversation, I should be allowed to.
She enjoys it superficially as a cornerstone of mainstream dinosaur-themed entertainment, but maybe not enough to memorize frame-by-frame. Maybe she’s replaying a mentally DVR-ed documentary.
If you recall, she spent a great deal of time at the start of the comic just standing behind doors. This is likely an improvement – at least this way she won’t accidentally give someone a heart attack.
Sometimes, a person doesn’t need physical media in front of their face to be fine with waiting somewhere for a while. I’m not sure why you’d think she doesn’t have a phone with her though, and if it’s just because she hasn’t got it out at the moment, see my first statement. Personally, I enjoy the occasional bout of sitting/standing in place and being alone with my thoughts for an extended period of time.
This is me. On meds it’s a litter-al torrent of stream-of-consciousness thoughts, usually Very entertaining-slash-absorbing, so no external devices needed. If not on meds, it’s like a cataract of torrents falling into my brain, squirrel! much like ‘Dug’ in the movie “UP!” Ball!, it’s a timeless place, where time has no meaning… Wanna ride bikes? And boredom cannot/dare not show it’s face for fear of so much chaos wrapped up in fun ideas.
Pardon the repetition, but what is “referral” referring to? I have no experience in this area, so I’m curious what that means in this context and why Joyce seems to be particularly uncomfortable with it.
1) The campus doctor is not especially qualified to deal with matters of this nature, and referred her to someone who is. So we’re getting a “Joyce goes to the OB/GYN” story at some point.
2) Her freak out at being “examined”, and her general anxiety with the situation, were such that she was recommended a therapist.
The referral is her getting plans to see a doctor about something specific. If your doctor believes you have a problem with your heart, they will right you a referral to a cardiologist.
I thought every Medical Person had an all-encompassing knowledge of every part of human anatomy and health and could provide flawless information with equal competence to any one of their compatriots.
It seems she went to the on-campus health center, which probably only has general medicine practitioners. They likely referred her to a specialist (OB/GYN…although a referral to a PsyD would certainly be a good idea, I doubt they pushed that without Joyce bringing it up)
A referral is a writ issued by a primary care physician (a.k.a family doctor, a.k.a. general practitioner) charging a patient to consult a specialised doctor about a specific medical issue. In some places some specialists will not accept a patient without they have a referral. In others the specialist will not be paid, or will not be paid only a lower fee without the patient has a referral. In some places the patient’s insurance provider will not reimburse the specialist’s fee to the patient unless the patient has a referral.
Referrals are a measure to reduce the cost of medical care by restricting the consumption of expensive specialists’ services.
That Joyce’s GP has given her a referral as well as a prescription suggests that she does not believe that the treatment prescribed is definitive, but thinks that Joyce needs further treatment or definitive treatment by some more specialised doctor, perhaps with path tests or imaging studies to inform that treatment. The prescription is probably for a palliative of temporary treatment.
A referral is basically calling a specific type of doctor and going ‘hey, this person needs an appointment for specific issues, let them know when you have an appointment slot for them’.
Then you wait until you get a letter with an appointment or they reject the referral based on symptoms/medical history and say ‘no, this person sounds fine/like they do not need my time’.
Because Joyce is having period issues, guess what kind of specialist she would be referred to and you’ll know why she is freaked out.
Other options are referrals for a surgery consultation or a biopsy. Or for an IUD. Or to an endocrinologist. My sis has been having metrorrhagia for over a year and she has had to see a LOT of specialists.
Might be because of their last conversation. Dina pushed Joyce to discuss spanking and trauma when she really didn’t want to (and was in physical pain), and Joyce was flippant and insulted Dina (whether or not she meant to)
Dina and Joyce have a strange sort of frenemy dynamic where they are both polar opposites who possibly hate each other on a fundamental level, yet also share an almost uncanny familiarity at the same time. So yeah, it’s always been like this.
I cannot WAIT for those two to have a genuine discussion about atheism, I have been anticipating that since they briefly skirted around the topic previously before Becky interrupted.
I kind of doubt that’s going to happen. Dina doesn’t seem to care about her atheism in any way that makes the subject important to her. I doubt she would find the conversation all that interesting.
I could be wrong here, and I look forward to finding out either way. But I still get the feeling that they come to their atheism from such different places that I don’t know if they’ll actually have much to talk about.
Joyce’s atheism is seems deeply emotional, whereas Dina’s simply is. Joyce appears to be most interested in railing against all the adults who betrayed her by raising her in a fundamentalist cult, while Dina would rather talk about dinosaur evolution.
Though perhaps Dina’s recent realization that Becky’s upbringing included physical abuse will get her more interested in hearing about Joyce’s experiences.
Anyway, I’ve spend way too much time rewriting this comment instead of getting stuff done. But thanks everyone for reading my ramblings! 😛
I don’t expect this to happen, but maximum calamity scenario: Becky finds out about Joyce’s BC, mocks her about it, and in the spiel lets slip that she and Dina fucked, and that’s how Joyce finds out, right in the middle of peak hypocrisy.
Honestly, I think it’d be much more about Joyce’s atheism than the BC itself. Something like this:
B: “Look at you, you haven’t been an amoral atheist for 5 minutes and you’re already taking birth control, like a slut.”
J: “…it’s to help with my period pains, actually…”
B: “Ah, yeah, that’s why they call it period control and not birth control. Pfft, even I’m not on BC and I’m fucking my girlf-” *quickly covers mouth with hands*
Also, I’m not sure Becky would see BC as healthcare, necessary or otherwise. If anything, she probably has even less knowledge about women-specific health problems than Joyce.
Realizing now: is it possible that NOBODY has told Dina about Joyce’s recent philosophical changes? I would assume Becky would, but Becky is also a walking stack of coping mechanisms so it’s possible she just kicked that can down the road.
I don’t find it likely, but otherwise it seems like Dina wouldn’t be talking shit about Joyce behind her back if she knew Joyce isn’t 100% certified fundie anymore.
Orrrr maybe Dina is processing Becky’s sex-based shame and hangups and is just more broadly lamenting purity culture?
Dina was there herself when Joyce said that she doesn’t have a soul, and immediately after that Becky called her an apostate. She doesn’t explicitly know but she’s got evidence.
Of course, even with the core of her beliefs changed, Dina is probably correct that a lot of other hangups will still remain. We did see her freaking out a bit at the doctors office, anyway.
Even if Dina heard her (like alongcameaspider said, it was probably under her breath), would she even have understood what it meant re: Joyce’s beliefs? One of her two lines in the comic where Becky calls Joyce an apostate is “Becky!” The other is “I am not understanding the conversation more than usual”.
And then the whole waking up Joyce thing happen after her first guess of the meaning of a wooden spoon, “God will cook us something”, was born out of a complete lack of knowledge of the bible.
On the other hand, this is Dina we’re talking about. If she doesn’t understand something, she’ll research and get back to you.
The whole reason she woke Joyce up in the first place was to better understand Becky’s comments re: wooden spoons. Who else would know the context behind that comment better than the other person she knows who grew up in that same exact environment?
She’ll research it if she cares about it. She cared about the wooden spoon thing because she cares about her Becky and it was something that was hurting her in that moment. As far as I can tell, she doesn’t care about the specifics of Christianity. One word or sentence in a whole conversation of words of Christian jargon probably wasn’t worth looking up.
It’s very unchill to explicitly tell somebody that you won’t pry into a sensitive personal subject. It’s also bad to expect that a person will behave in a way that’s consistent with how you’ve seen them behave before. Basic pattern recognition within known parameters is misbehavior.
Lots of people here saying that Dina’s being mean to Joyce, but I feel like she would have a more visibly angry face if it was intentional. “Smile warmly at Becky for me” seems more apathetic towards Joyce’s feelings, which is fair given their last interaction.
Neither Joyce nor Becky owe the other person their “news”.
One is a private medical matter, and the other is a private romantic matter. Anyone who thinks you’re obligated to share either is a percussive instrument.
Still, you’re probably right that it will create more drama, since that’s what writers do!
Robin is in fact equipped to handle absolutely nothing at all, from what we’ve seen. Leslie isn’t much better, considering she let one of her students harass two others in the middle of class until they left and then went “wow, that was super impressive”.
I am slightly annoyed at Dina for being the umpteenth person to predict Joyce’s big freak about taking “slut pills”. I hope they’re all proven wrong.
Also this feels kinda too socially saavy for Dina, who once had to be told by Amber she was hanging out with a twelve year old. It hasn’t even been a full year since that incident.
Wait you think she could be talking about Becky in that final panel? Because if so, then her statement becomes “I will respect Joyce’s privacy until Becky calls herself a hussy”, meaning she won’t respect Joyce’s privacy thereafter. Kind of a dick move
I actually had to look up “Hussy” and I interpreted it very literally with the first definition of “promiscuous”, because the “her” pronoun in the last panel was unclear to me.
I don’t entirely follow you, here. Why would Dina be talking to herself about respecting Becky’s privacy after telling Joyce that she’d respect Joyce’s? The last panel is Dina adding a personal note to the statement she made at the bottom of Panel 2, nothing to do with Becky directly.
she was raised by conservative fundies (who are known for degrading every form of contraception as inherently sexual even when used medically), was very thoroughly brainwashed, can’t say “sex” or “horny” without wincing, said earlier that day that menstrual pain is punishment for eve biting the apple, and threw a fit about going to see an eye doctor a few days prior. their assumptions are not without precedent.
I’m not saying these predictions are going to be wrong, I’m saying it’s getting annoying that everyone -including the incredibly socially awkward Dina- are making assumptions about what Joyce’s big freakout will be.
Dina is not even particularly close to Joyce and from what we know of her, she did not have any pre-conceptions about “sex shaming Christians” prior to university. I can understand these statements from Sarah and Becky, but Dina?
I agree. In fact Dina’s only experience with “sex-shaming Christians” seems to be her own girlfriend, who they are currently working through those issues.
It could be a sign to the audience that Dina has made a lot of progress in understanding other people’s motivations, social cues, and belief systems since the beginning of Freshman year. But I agree, it’s a little sudden and jarring.
Well, there are a lot of presumptions in this.
First, the prescription is birth control.
Wouldn’t you just prescribe some pain killer/ cramp reducers if you are referring your patient to another doctor anyway?
Second: Joyce has the association that birth control is only taken by promiscuous people (valid from what we know of her)
Thirty: No one has yet pointed out to Joyce that prescription is, in fact, birth control, so Dina’s comment will take a moment to be processed before Joyce has a meltdown.
(Given Becky’s hang ups about sex, it’s not jumping to conclusions that Joyce will have them, too. Still,it’s curious Dina would have to know about the possibility of birth control being prescribed for menstrual cramps, and I’m not entirely sure she would.)
Why wouldn’t she?
Dina is a woman.
She’s older than half the cast.
And medicine is another aspect of science.
She also has her mother in her life.
That’s at least four variables that could reasonably be a source of said knowledge: her personal experience, her mother’s experience, general knowledge of science/medicine, and simply being a little older so possibly exposed to it sometime in her life.
None of that makes it Likely that she knows, but none of Dina being Dina makes it less likely, either.
Why would she? If she doesn’t suffer from cramps herself – and that hasn’t come up – I see no reason why she should know. It’s not like all mothers talk to their children about those things (at all or about that aspect).
Now that seems like a good way to get people hooked on birth control. in my time, they might change the birth control prescription for those who used it anyway, but gave you anti-cramp meds if you didn’t. only for recurring instances – which we didn’t yet see with Joyce – they might have ask you to get on a birth control regime. Haven’t been to a doc on that topic for ages, so things might have changed?
Jeez, this felt so mean coming from Dina… I think they’ve both said not great things to each other in the past but for some reason “hussy” just feels a bit too far. Though I suppose she could’ve said jezebel and that would’ve been worse?
Anways, inb4 Robin’s class is about contraception or something like that.
Is that the mistake people who are mad at Dina today are making?
Joyce is visibly freaking out about something. Given the appointment she’s just come from I’m also assuming that’s what she’s freaking out about. Just because she’s an atheist now doesn’t mean all her hangups just went poof.
It’s possible that she’s just being completely polite to Joyce, despite their interaction earlier today where Joyce insulted her after Dina badgered her. It’s also possible that Dina is somewhat enjoying the knowledge that Joyce is very unsettled and about to freak out. I don’t know how to read it.
As agonizing as it is for her, Joyce’s emotional reflexes are still very much under the undue control of her indoctrination, and Dina probably knows this too.
Having firsthand experience breaking a few of Becky’s Chains of Sunday School, this seems like a rather reasonable prediction on behalf of Dina, given the evidence she’s gathered.
Sometimes people are just neutrally polite during short interactions that last a few seconds and then end, without anything Importantly Interpersonal ™ happening behind the mind’s eye.
A little of both? I could be reading too much ito it, but I suspect that after Joyce called her a “robot,” Dina is quietly amused to watch Joyce struggling with her own “programming”.
Is she visibly freaking out? She ran into Dina without expecting her there, Dina is asking her about something that she’s generally super private about, their last interaction ended with Dina getting angry and storming off but now Dina’s acting as though that never happened…. I read Joyce as trying to handle the unexpected interaction while, you know, still almost certainly being in a lot of pain.
Yes, she almost certainly still has most of her hangups. Doesn’t mean it’s okay for Dina to poke and prod at them. She’s probably going to take them to a place she thinks is private and deal with them there, not right here, right now, with someone she’s not comfortable or on good terms with.
Before I answer, I want to say I’m bad at reading people in real life, and in cartoons it’s sometimes easier because we get looks into their inner thoughts and processes, but it’s sometimes harder because you lose a lot of body language and tone and everything when it’s flattened into two-dimensional single-moments-in-time. I get it wrong often enough in real life, it’s definitely possible I’m getting it wrong here.
I think Dina’s acting as though she didn’t get angry at Joyce and storm off. That’s something that definitely happened. Maybe it’s something that wasn’t a big enough deal to Dina to for her to think it needs to be acknowledged, but if I were in Joyce’s position (and had been awake enough for the end of that conversation, because I’m don’t think Joyce was fully awake for most of that) I’d think it would need to be acknowledged. I’d be wondering, last time she said I was an asshole for something that I can’t change without a time machine (being spanked as a child) and stormed out, did she not mean it, why is she now choosing to engage (beyond a simple greeting) with someone she thinks is an asshole, does she not think I’m an asshole any more, what has changed?
Yea, I’m confused, especially considering their last interaction ended with Joyce being offensive to Dina.
I’d say Dina saying a line after Joyce leaves that describes how she assumes Joyce will perceive herself based on how Joyce has operated isn’t really that bad, like Dina isn’t Joyce’s bff, she’s not one of the three people who are within her sphere and know what’s happening with her(or at least should)
I say this as a non-American who doesn’t really get hussy in a cultural context so *shrug*
It’s an insulting term for a woman who is overly inclined to have sex, spoken by someone who believes in a moral code that dictates that women should not be so inclined.
A very very very slightly more polite and refined way of saying slut. And as pointed out by Huttj although I had assumed it didn’t need to since the comic makes it obvious Dina isn’t calling Joyce a hussy, Dina is assuming that Joyce will internally feel like and be calling herself a hussy because of Joyce’s hangups about sex which as I said are unlikely to have just vanished overnight because she converted to Atheism.
It’s a derogatory term for a sexually active woman. Kind of an old fashioned one as well, so if someone who isn’t older or from a very conservative background is using it, it’s probably in a somewhat self aware and ironic way.
In American custom, the traditional response to this question would usually be something along the lines of “Your mom”, followed by a vigorous high-five delivered to an adjacent crony. Optionally, this might then be followed by an enthusiastic raising of the arm and a celebratory bellow of “Whoooooaaaa!”, depending on region, maturity, and level of intoxication. Sudden metamorphosis into a humanoid bluejay or raccoon may also be involved.
Now that I think about it, is Dina effectively saying that she won’t respect Joyce’s privacy if the matter is declared publicly? If Joyce has a public freak out about her situation, then it’s open season to discuss her (Joyce’s) menstrual cycle with others? What the hell Dina
It’s not even really much of an implication, she’s basically saying it outright, in plain language. I think sometimes we overanalyse these small interactions*.
America’s concept that it’s a horrible thing to discuss difficult menstrual cycles in public means that American women are expected to suffer in silence while women in Spain are now about to get up to three paid days off every month.
So yeah, what the hell Dina? Are you trying to cost our capitalist overlords money?
That is awesome news from Spain! A couple of my friends moved there last year, partly for work but partly because it’s a more enlightened place than Britain these days.
But what if she declares it publicly to literally everyone she meets, and then demands they all keep it a secret from Becky, and JUST Becky, specifically?
Obviously, Dina would be the worst person in the world to tell Becky, after that!
Little sad we didn’t get to see more of Joyce talking to the doctor but tbh, it’s probably for the best. That storyline was gonna be bittersweet for me in any case so I’m gonna focus on the part of me that’s happy for Joyce.
Man I hope the only thing bothering Joyce right now (besides the obvious…*gestures* …stuff) is just that all of her “friends” seem to really be on her case lately when all she ever wanted to do was rest.
To be fair, that’s kind of what she always did to others, and never really let up. That is what they are used to from her, and grow so used to it that’s what they do for her in return. (The whole “treat others as you want to be treated.” It doesn’t always account for the times in your life when you need something different.)
I’d kind of enjoy seeing Joyce keep her ‘hussy’ status pretty much to herself. Nothing good has come from her friends hearing her private personal business lately.
If she has a freakout in front of anyone, I want it to be Joe. He’s actually motivated to be good to Joyce, which is more than can be said for most others in her circle.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Joyce taking her negative/complex emotions about going on birth control and everything that implies or enables for her to Joe would be DELIGHTFUL, both because he is the person in her circle who has been most supportive and open-minded towards her deconversion from Christianity, and also because of the emotional turmoil it would instigate in HIM, as the person in love with her who won’t even entertain the opportunity of acting on those feelings because he thinks he’ll “ruin” her. It’s a MINEFIELD and I would love to see him forced to navigate it because he cares about her too much to step back from her.
Ten bucks says that this storyline ends with Joyce literally having it up to HERE with everyone, going to Joe’s room, stripping off everything… and Joe, obviously, saying no.
I mean, I hope my expectations will be subverted, but man, the dominoes seem to be set up neatly to all fall. I don’t think I can wait for the eventual surprise twist in like October.
She might just START with Joe. Joyce isn’t just in horny jail, she’s in Superman and the walls are crumbling from the strain. As per Ruthless, half of Bloomington is at risk.
The piling-up of assumptions about Joyce freaking out for some reason that is continuously coming from the Becky/Dina side is now out of control. Be they right or not, I am starting to root for all the situation to blow in their faces Carla-pie style.
I don’t know from University clinics, does Joyce getting a prescription mean she gets the actual pills or whatever immediately, or is it the usual “here is a piece of paper with illegible scribbles on it for you to take to a drug store where you will have to fill out 8 pages of poorly photocopied forms and then wait for a week until they tell you that they can’t get those pills anymore”?
If you don’t already have an established account with a drug store or other pharmacy, yes. At least the first part. Obviously the ‘wait a week’ and ‘we can’t get that anymore’ aren’t inevitable. And often they can get it for you in 30 minutes or so if you insist.
(And of course in the US you may need to pay a “copayment” for what your insurance doesn’t cover, which can be anything up to several hundred dollars, depending on the drug and your insurance..)
Not really. It’s mostly all done online these days. I guess you could probably still get a physical prescription written down on a piece of paper, but everything I’ve had in the last decade or more has just been sent over to the pharmacy I told them to use. Nor have I had to fill out any paperwork at the pharmacy – just hand over my ID and insurance card the first time.
Sometimes you do have to wait – no pharmacy will have everything in stock, but for something common like birth control that’ll be available.
It looks to me like the IU student health center has a pharmacy on site, so while it’s technically a different place and the doctor doesn’t give you the pills directly, you basically go down the hall and pick them up. Again, assuming they’re not something rarely needed.
In my experience it depends on what sort of preexisting relationship with a pharmacy you have. Hard copy prescriptions can be taken wherever you prefer. If you know where you prefer, they can call it in.
Yeah, though you don’t really need a preexisting relationship. I picked a pharmacy basically because I drove by it regularly – it was convenient. Hadn’t actually been there before.
I went to a large state university in NC, similar to IU, and our student health clinic did have a pharmacy. I went there for what turned out to be pneumonia (this was in 2015) and they were able to give me a corticosteroid injection (which had me feeling significantly better literally on my way out of the building) and antibiotics.
Respecting Joyce’s privacy until Dina expects that Joyce will render it unnecessary via public freakout is polite, IMO. I really hope Joyce subverts the cast’s predictions.
If anyone thinks Dina is being rude, have y’all really never made a prediction to yourselves about a friend/family member/acquaintance’s behavior before?
Everyone has thoughts like this. Dina felt it was important enough to say out loud. It’s a comic thing but it means the line has meaning, otherwise we wouldn’t have seen it.
At least we seem to have finally lost all the right-wing toy collectors who used to complain about all the feminism and queerness on Shortpacked then come over here to do it some more….
She’s not being rude. Rudeness inherently requires an interaction between at least two parties. It’s a social construction (the violation of social expectations of speech or behavior) and does not exist in a vacuum.
What she IS being is contemptuous. Dina has very little respect for Joyce and doesn’t go out of her way to hide that fact.
David Willis has informed me that referring to Becky’s attempts at rigidly controlling how her best friend is allowed to think because she needs her to exist as her buffer as a walking victim complex means that I, an actual human being unlike his cartoon lesbian, actually queer, actually disabled person whose scholarship is at risk because a teacher has decided that I am not pulling myself by my bootstraps enough while I am having panic attacks in his class and who only got a shot at living a normal life after believing most of it that I was innately broken because no one recognized my disabilities until now, am just like Tucker Carlson, since Becky the cartoon lesbian who canvased for the GOP that one time is in danger of the Tucker Carlsons of the world and I am not.
On the same occasion, I was informed that Ruth and Jennifer being forcibly outed in class by Becky isn’t a problem since David Willis has declared it such, as Ruth is a cartoon character who does not have feelings and Becky the cartoon lesbian definitely is because she is an orphaned queer teenager and Ruth apparently is not. Between this I was also informed that even if a cultural Christian oligarchy is the main, most apparent threat to the lives of people like me, I’m ignoring the danger presented by Bill “I had to look this man up because I’m not American” Maher and reddit incels. I assume he meant this as “smaller entities still present real harms,” this is a thing I already believe and have expressed, but it was apparently very important that I, someone who has every single reason to know who and what is out to ruin the lives of queer and disabled folks, know this while being told for the 8000th time on this site that “wow there really is no difference between atheists and Christians, both sides are the same” while living in a province where my Conservative premier declared that the only help an autistic person needs is to get a job.
Apparently being mean to Becky the cartoon lesbian is a real problem that makes real people uncomfortable. Fair enough. I would then assume I can be uncomfortable about Becky the cartoon lesbian forcibly outing Ruth and Jennifer in a public because she has decided they’re going to kill themselves unless she publicly humiliates them enough that they drop out to her teacher’s approval, but David Willis has assured me it is not a problem since he has declared Ruth the cartoon bisexual is actually perfectly fine with being outed. Presumably Jennifer the also cartoon bisexual is as well even if she is currently not openly identifying as bi and never has, but it’s very important the same guy telling me that I am Tucker Carlson and not considering how reddit incels will get me also made sure I know that my opinion on the safety of my own sexual identity isn’t really that important.
I don’t even have the bootstraps to hang myself with, but I’m glad I learned a lesson about being nice to cartoon lesbians while having every single vulnerable aspect of my life put on trial by the series’ author so he could defend the sanctity of his cartoon lesbian.
If it makes you feel any better, I too have been informed by quite a number of people that while it IS true that catholics are trying to turn their religion into law for everyone else over here (I’d say again, but that would imply that they’ve ever stopped), that the bishop for our second-largest city said that the accusations of pedophilia “are being blown out of proportion, because some of those were just caresses” (cookies for correctly guessing in one what happened to him), that the pope goes around calling transfolk “antinatural” and “nuclear weapons against the plan of god”, urged the Poles to vote for “traditional marriage” and, while being a motherfucker that will never the shut the fuck up, somehow never mentioned how the catholic-aligned government of an African country was literally hunting gay folks down when visiting that country (when a reporter asked him about it afterwards, he said “it wasn’t time to discuss such things”; I can only presume he wants to make sure they kill them all first), somehow the biggest problem of our, and in fact any age, is that I’m rude to these people when pointing it out.
I mean, my surprise-o-meter is at a solid zero, or perhaps at negative eleventy-billion, but still, holy fucking shit.
“Is it right to provide Ukraine with weapons so that it can defend itself against Russia’s aggression?” “I don’t know how to answer.”
“Francis reflected on Russia’s lethal aggression toward its neighbor and said while he might not go as far as saying NATO’s presence in nearby countries “provoked” Moscow, it “perhaps facilitated” the invasion.”
I’ve always thought Francis was pretty good for a Pope, but note that “for a Pope,” a profession which has included some of the world’s most famous poisoners….
Also, poison gets a bad rep and it really shouldn’t. Poison=the worst comes from the fact that the people in charge had a bunch of heavily armed and armoured and trained people at their beck and call to kill anyone that got uppity (like thinking that maybe the nobles shouldn’t keep raising taxes to have more money to blow on lavish parties while people starved), but none of them can save you from the cook getting upset that you raped his daughter and slipping a litre of arsenic into your roast pig dinner. It’s sort of the same reason why the pope of the time declared crossbows to be weapons of the devil.
Fair point! Mind you, the dude I’m thinking of was definitely a case of “poisoning down” rather than “poisoning up.” One of the Alexanders was notorious for dealing with anyone who got in his way by inviting them round for dinner and poisoning them.
To be a pope, you MUST be evil. It’s part of the job description of being a cat-lick priest, which you have to become long before you become a pope.
Bergoglio is less evil than the vast majority of popes. But as you’ve correctly pointed out, that ain’t saying much.
… It also bugs me when Protestants look at all the vile stuff Catholic clergy have done over the years, and conclude that Catholics are therefore Fake Christians who worship the Devil or something. Not a practicing Catholic myself, but many of my relatives are and they are both pious and basically decent.
Spencer, I attempted to Word Of God you that Ruth did not register harm from that incident because you had begun to use it as a cudgel in the comments against other people. You’ve gone on record repeatedly as enjoying immensely tearing a specific queer character down, and it’s escalated to the point that people had begun coming to me asking why I let you make them feel unsafe. You start flame wars in here constantly, and it gets very personal and I was merely trying to remove a tool from your arsenal so that things might simmer down a bit.
But I guess unfortunately, Hating Becky is too important a part of your personality now and so that any threat to Asking You To Stop Hating Becky is an affront to you as an individual. I’m amused that you think I’m upset that you have attacked my perfect lesbian cartoon, when your feelings towards my perfect lesbian cartoon seem to be way more important to you. Like, I am actually super aware of how attempting you to tone it down a little bit would have played out! That’s why I ignored it for so long, because 1) I like you, and 2) I am a coward. I didn’t want to have to confront the damage you were doing to other queer folks who came to me asking why I let you act like this at them because it would be difficult and there would be no peaceful solution to this because I knew you’d blow up and eventually enter the THREATENING YOU TO BAN ME stage of your usual metamorphosis. I knew I’d lose you from here again.
Every time someone says “uh hey” to you about the way you lash out, you point out specifically that you cannot do harm because you are not a member of the Fundie Evangelical Complex. You are absolved from criticism because you don’t believe in God. So, yeah, I’m going to bring up Bill Maher and Ricky Gervais as examples of atheists who absolutely do harm. I’m not both-sidesing anything. I’m saying don’t use your atheism as a shield from accountability.
I apologize for using American references a Canadian wouldn’t understand.
But at the end of the day, I’m actually a little relieved that I’m the queer person you’ve decided to target today instead of anybody else. Mission accomplished, somehow, by asking you to leave other people alone! That’s right, I Xanatos Gambited this, I’m pretty sure. Tactical genius. More of this, please, less of the other stuff. I get letters.
I’m sorry they’ve been such a headache. People need to remember none of the characters are perfect and this is a story being told one strip at a time. Maybe let it play out and trust the author when he clarifies how the characters felt, yeah?
honestly if spencer had brought up the issue in regards to jennifer instead of ruth, the answer woulda been “sure maybe possibly,” because ruth is absolutely secretly pleased whenever someone publicly digs the billie/ruth relationship out of the memoryhole because she’s definitely not over anything, do it again please
yes as a consolation prize for everyone having to endure this, i am handing out absolutely true character motivations
We don’t know his specific job, but he goes on frequent business trips and had enough influence to get the mayor to kick out the homeless people from downtown Evansville.
If Billingsworth Sr. was a U.S. senator it would absolutely have come up by now. Robin’s re-election campaign for REPRESENTATIVE took up a massive amount of oxygen in the storylines from last semester.
There’s lots of other iterations of power besides federal elected office, or even local office (local levels including such things as mayor, or state rep, or sheriff, or judge). I’m leaning towards Jennifer’s father being a titan of industry (local), but there’s a lot of possibilities. Honestly, he could be running the chamber of commerce, and that would make him a big deal in this part of town.
David Willis, I owe you an apology. I always err on the side of believing people who say they have been treated badly/abused/harrassed/traumatized/etc. until it’s proven differently. Your posts demonstrate that this is, at best, a very complicated situation. I’m sorry for responding as if you were a bad person without knowing the whole story. There is obviously a lot more going on here than I’m aware of and I won’t comment on these specific remarks and/or this situation as a whole in future.
That sure is a summary of what happened that is 100% accurate, unbiased, with no subtleties or nuances left out, and not at all exaggerating the scale of insult delivered to you. Definitely not, say, a spin doctoring job worthy of…well…tucker carlson.
Calling someone a walking victim complex is something Tucker would say, and there *are* problematic atheist behaviors that Joyce is currently representing in her holier-than-thou attitude. I’m not even sure how exactly you’re trying to argue either of those points.
But yes, please tell us how badly you have been injured by words about fictional people, as though these words have somehow reached into your life to cause the problems you are lamenting. I’m sure those words are all part of the grander societal conspiracy against the queer and disabled and not a reasonable response to someone that shitposts on comics that don’t even include the characters in question.
Idk I know I’m not in the comment section much so maybe it’s not my place but I feel like regardless of whether Spencer is in the wrong here, it’s kind of shitty to continue to compare them to Tucker Carlson when they’ve made it clear it’s pretty distressing. The comparison is not very apt anyway. The harm Tucker Carlson does goes beyond just spin doctoring or using the words “walking victim complex”. And the harm Tucker Carlson does is done to Spencer (among others obviously), so the insult is deeper. You can disagree with someone without using the things they just said hurt them against them.
Agreed with Fuzzy, you could point out that you don’t think this is unbiased without comparing someone to a huge piece of shit who is causing harm on a daily basis/
who are you and why are you complaining that this mostly fictional slightly autobiographical comic strip has to relate to you and your life experiences in a 400 word essay in the comments
im also disabled, I’m also queer, and I’m also hanging on by a thread to my scholarship, but literally none of this has to do with anything here
stop trying to turn this into a sociaital justice issue when it’s clear you just have a issue with the writer’s creative choices
stop poisoning our experience and go yell at a wall instead
Hey! As a person who both frequently enjoys your contributions, and has avoided interacting with you at points because you are sometimes awful and even mean or a bully, can I say a couple of things?
1. when you find yourself at the point of trying to start a feud with a self-employed web cartoonist because you don’t see eye-to-eye with them on a point of characterization in their own work, this is a good moment to step back.
2. You are incredibly, grossly, unfairly overstating Willis’s impact on your life and your right and ability to express your feelings and your politics in your own life. This is another good pointer to step back from here.
I say this with truly gentle intentions: if you can’t talk to people in this forum that exists solely for people to talk about Dumbing of Age comics without it getting violently heated, or if you feel this degree of hurt or shamed or censured because you’ve been asked to tone down the aggression, this is a good moment to take a break from it.
I’m so sorry about what happened to both of you, Spencer and JBento. That really sucks. 😢
Spencer, I’m a seriously addicted reader and an English professor, and I can tell you I have personally learned that it’s not always a good idea to meet/talk to authors/artists whose work you admire. I’ve met a number of contemporary authors and some of them are just wonderful people and some are…not. (Not naming any names here!) I personally feel like there is sometimes a huge disconnect between the creator as a person and their work. For example, the poet T. S. Eliot wrote some incredible, heart-wrenching, sensitive poetry (IMHO) but in real like he was a sexist, anti-Semite, and kind of a racist.
I think it’s up to each of us how we want to deal with approaching a work when the creator of that work is a butt. I haven’t stopped reading or teaching T. S. Eliot (he lived over a century ago, so while I do NOT give him a pass AT ALL, there is some important context for who and what he was), but I never for a second forget or let anyone forget he was kind of a horrible person. I jumped on the “Harry Potter” bandwagon late (I was in my 20s) but the books and the films meant a lot to me. Now that I know how terrible Rowling is as a person, I can’t read the books anymore or have anything to do with that fandom. I’m not going to BURN my copies of the books, or anything, but I just can’t feel the same way about them. I also used to refer to the “Harry Potter” books/films in class frequently when giving examples of how to set up an essay, or something, and I never do that now.
Sometimes I think that the “better part” of people comes out in their art even if they are personally kind of butts. But (ha ha!) sometimes not. If “Dumbing of Age” is important to you I hope, if you want, that you can still enjoy it separate from your terrible experience with is creator.
“the poet T. S. Eliot wrote some incredible, heart-wrenching, sensitive poetry (IMHO) but in real like he was a sexist, anti-Semite, and kind of a racist.” I mean, if he was an anti-Semite he wasn’t “kind of a racist”, he was a full-blown one.
Also, nothing has happened (or is going to happen) to me. I’m a straight dude, I’ll be dead of old age before the catholics go through enough of their targets that they get to me.
It’s gonna suck to be a woman if this thing gets through, though, what with family doctors discouraging women from having abortions or any sex at all, because if they have an abortion or test positive for an STD, the doctor’s pay gets cut.
Before you ask, yes, it’s just women, dudes can test positive for all the STDs they want, obviously. After all, dudes have a right to stick their dick into anyone they want (except another adult male; everything else, including either/or, is apparently cool with the catholics), but we got to keep tabs on them whores to make sure they keep their legs shut, amirite?
Point taken about Eliot. I’m personally not totally clear on the overlap/correct designation of Judiasm/being Jewish as a religion, race, and/or culture. My dissertation director advised me to refer to anti-Semitism and racism separately and I’ve been following her guidance since. Maybe I should switch to phrasing like “Eliot was a racist, including being prejudiced against Jewish people.” I initially said “kind of” a racist because, although he did not like Black people, his views on that were less severe than those against women and Jewish people.
I am a person with a functional uterus and I live in the US, so I can relate to your comment! I’m really scared about what is going to happen and what is ALREADY happening to people with uteruses here in the US. I have a severe blood-clotting disorder at least partially linked to hormone levels and take blood thinning medication that causes major birth defects, so I CANNOT get pregnant and, if I became pregnant accidentally, I would have to have an abortion in order to not DIE. I am a white woman in NYC with excellent health insurance, a savings account, a steady source of income, great doctors, and a family support system in New England. Whatever happens, because of my various types of privilege, *I* personally will be okay. But most people in the US may not be. I have friends who live in states where things are terrible and are going to get worse. My kind-of stepchild (long story) lives in Oklahoma and they can get pregnant. Oklahoma just basically banned all abortions and now is taking aim at birth control. They are, I think, trying to out-Texas Texas. Things are really scary all over right now. 😔
Uh. I was planning a post on how sorry I am about you folks having to go through this, but then you mentioned Texas and all of that flew out of my brain, because the topic of primary importance immediately became this:
If you (general you) have or have helped carry out an abortion (including driving people to the clinic), ANYWHERE, it is not safe for you to set foot in Texas. Their bounty law allows sueing for abortions taken place elsewhere.
Now that that’s out of the way, I’m sorry about what you lot have to go through (except the part of “you lot” that voted Republican, in which case haha, no, fuck you), both on the general law sense and in the case of your paticular condition.
D’oh! I was just finishing a long reply and my iPad decided to randomly freeze up. In short: the US is feeling pretty dystopian right now. Although I’ll be the first to admit that the US is NOT any kind of a paradise, for my whole life previously (I was born here) I felt that we were generally trying to improve and do better than our colonist, genocidal, racist, sexist, homophobic history. I don’t feel that way about the country as a whole anymore. I think that certain parts of the US and certain groups in it (Black Lives Matter, the many pro-choice and pro-reproductive rights grassoots movements, etc.) ARE worthwhile and praiseworthy. I think the country taken as a whole is a dumpster fire right now.
I am completely flummoxed about how some of these ridiculous laws in Texas and other places are going to be enforced. So you can be arrested/charged if you aid a person trying to get an abortion. What about the completely innocent gas station worker who pumped that person’s gas while they were on the way to Planned Parenthood? What if that pregnant person has morning sickness and can’t drive so they stop at Wal-Mart for some Pepto-Bismal. Do the store manager, the floor worker who helped them find the medicine, and the cashier who rang them up all get arrested because they aided someone on their way to an abortion? So all female-presenting people have to pee on a stick and submit an itinerary before they do LITERALLY ANYTHING? How in the WORLD would you find the money, personnel, and time to make that work?
Texas and some other states are also trying to criminalize miscarriages. According to the Mayo Clinic, about 20% of pregnancies end in micarriage, many so early that the person doesn’t even know they’re pregnant. (They may think they had an especially heavy period.) So all are people with periods now required to submit their used tampons/pads/other menstrual products for testing to make sure they didn’t spontaneously miscarry? And HOW would you enforce that? The mind boggles.
I feel like this all is insane (and I am sorry, but I LITERALLY mean insane as in “the people doing this are severely mentally unwell) in directions my mind can’t even point to. I apologize for referencing “The Handmaid’s Tale” (it’s a very white-feminist book that ignores the lived reality that people of colour have experienced and are still experiencing). My mom got it as a birthday present from a friend when I was about 12 or so and I read it too. She said it was one of the most terrifying things she ever read because there are people out there who want to bring about that world. I read it and found it horrifying but thought, “At least this can’t happen here.” (Book recommendation: “It Can’t Happen Here” by Sinclair Lewis)
I am Queer (pansexual) and my male partner is kind-of questioning and VERY much an ally (he works for a movie theater but wore a Trans flag lapel pin during the opening weekend of the new “Fantastic Beasts” movie, for example). We are both cis. I do NOT want to marry Partner; we’ve been together for a long time but I just don’t want to be married in general. Recently I asked him, if things got really terrible (like, for example, if people with vaginas were stripped of the right to have their own money, or unmarried people with vaginas couldn’t buy birth controls like condoms, or people with vaginas needed a husband’s consent for OB-GYN visits and procedures, for example) if he’d marry me. He said yes but didn’t think it would get to that point up where we live. I hope he’s right but I NEVER thought that in 2022, as a grown woman, I’d have to be strategizing about the best ways to protect myself, which might mean “hiding” behind a man. (My closest male relative is my father and, while I don’t hate him or anything, I do NOT want him making descisions about my life!)
And again, I know I am SUPER-privileged and that many, MANY other people in the country have it MUCH worse than I do now or ever will. 😭
I am presuming that the fear is part of the point. I mean, think about it: you live in NYC, where the general population would rather shake Trump’s neck than his hand, and YOU are already positing taking steps that you wouldn’t otherwise in case shit hits the fan.
Now imagine you’re a woman in Texas, where shit has ALREADY hit the fan. If women are too scared to have an abortion, does it matter that you have no way to enforce punishments for abortion?
Of course, I might be thinking too hard about this. I mean, how high do you think the burden of proof is going to be in these cases, judged in Texan courts?
OH MY GODDESS WE *HATE* TRUMP UP HERE! AND WE *TRIED* TO WARN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ABOUT HIM! WE TRIEEEEED!
You make an excellent point about fear and intimidation. Yeah, enforcing these kind of Orwellian rules on a large scale is probably untenable and impossible. BUT if you’re a pregnant person who’s already scared for perfectly legitimate reasons (not just the legal ones but also potentially societal, economic, and familial/interpersonal consequences as well), I can easily see how someone might think, “Yeah, they probably wouldn’t know if I drove to see a doctor who peforms abortions and that doctor visit is supposed to be confidential…but WHAT IF I’m the one who gets reported and targeted to as a public example?”
We also can’t forget about the racism coded into this. (In the US, pretty much every hateful -ism is interconnected and tangled together into a terrible pulsating Ball of Hate.) More Black people with vaginas die as a result of pregnancy than any other group. They also (pre this mess) still had less access to affordable abortions than any other group. Plus, Texas is home to a LOT of immigrants (I think primarily from Mexico but also from other places in Central and South America). Some of these immigrants are here on short-term, maybe expired, VISAs and others are undocumented. Immigrants in places like Texas have for a long time learned to be scared of and hide from ICE agents and raids. I could see how a pregnant undocumented immigrant would be VERY scared to call any possible attention to themselves by seeking an abortion.
The term bigot works (I think racist and anti semite both apply to Eliot too, but my default is bigoted or prejudiced because it doesn’t matter why someone is discriminating, if they’re discriminating against someone based on any group another person fits into the term bigot applies).
@JBento: ” I’ll be dead of old age before the catholics go through enough of their targets that they get to me.”
I was going to say you underestimate how fast things will happen if the Repugnants get back control of the Senate … but the following long discussion makes it clear that it’s already happening.
My late wife (died in 2007) was of the opinion that we were witnessing the early stages of the Decline and Fall of the American Empire. I take no pleasure at all in observing that we are now in the middle stages. Ironically, this seems to have been triggered by (is a backlash to) the election of the first melanin-enhanced president. I remember being so energised and hopeful when that happened. [sigh]
Ah, but you see, I am the beneficiary of an amazing advantage in that respect: I’m neither from nor in the US.
(also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that the major brands of US christianity weren’t all that fond of those pope-worshipping catholics)
I’m not sure that’s an “if”. Things aren’t looking particularly good for Dems for the next election, what with Reps disenfrachising voters and Dems going above and beyond their usual nothing to doing super-savvy stuff like supporting anti-choice candidates in primaries when everybody’s talking about the overturning of RvW.
Sorry to hear about your wife. 🙁
I DO think it’s connected to Obama’s election, but not in the way I think you think. I don’t think it made the Republicans worse. I think it made the Reps act their true selves in such classy moves as “The Return of the N-Word” and “Black People and Comparisons to Monkeys”, and then the Dems did basically bupkiss about it and the Reps went “holy shit, we could’ve been acting like this ALL THE TIME with no repercussions?” and, as it turns out, they totally could.
Shit, one of the Jan 6th trash got out consequence-free because they claimed they thought the building they were storming was the White House. Dems are never going to give these people consequences, so they have no incentive to not hit barrel-bottom and then get some heavy machinery to keep digging.
It’s not so much that it made Republican politicians worse or that Democrats did “bupkiss”, but that it freaked out the white racist voter base. That enabled the Republican politicians who’d previously thought they had to stick with dog whistles. Of course, don’t ignore that the racism is bone deep in this country’s DNA or that there’s been a dedicated campaign since the Civil Rights movement to stoke the flame of that backlash. Wouldn’t neglect the effect of 9/11 either.
But it’s psychologically easier to pretend that it’s just Democrats being weak and that they could have easily stopped it.
I don’t…think so? At least not that I’ve ever read. Maybe you’re thinking of Edgar Allan Poe, who married his 14-year-old cousin. To be fair, until very recently cousins marrying was considered perfectly okay in the US. Marrying a 14-year-old as a grown man, less so.
There is a whole section of Eliot’s magnum opus “The Waste Land” (which I adore, BTW) that he wisely cut out of the final draft (with editing help from Ezra Pound who is WAY more problematic than Eliot, if you can believe it). It’s a long section about a woman named Fresca, an inferior, vain poet who dreams of “pleasant r@pes” and then wakes up to sit on the toilet and poop. A LOT. I am not making any of this up! Fresca was a thinly-disguised Nancy Cunard, a female modernist poet who Eliot despised. He accused her of plagiarizing “The Waste Land” with her long poem “Parallax” (note: I have read them both multiple times and she DID NOT). He destroyed her reputation and made her life in England so miserable that she became an ex-pat in France and never returned to England.
I own a book called “The Secret Lives of Great Authors” that include all this kind of little-known stuff about canonical authors: some of it very funny, some terrible, and some just weird. (For an example of the last one, google “James Joyce and farting” some time!)
I love that despite a very specific scenario being described, you can still say “I’m not sure, but here’s someone else who’s incredibly famous who did it.”
My sole interaction with one of my all-time favourite SF authors consisted of him dissing my taste in beer at a convention. Earlier that day he flat-out insulted a fellow panelist for no apparent reason.
Yeah, SF/horror authors especially can be a mixed bag. In the Before Times I was a panellist at StokerCon when Ramsey Campbell was the Guest of Honour. He was SUPER nice and friendly even though I was very OBVIOUSLY fangirling and squeeing all over him. (Hey, even as an English prof, I still sometimes fangirl with the best of them!) My entire impression of him that weekend was that he was really funny, very friendly, and just kind of chill in general; in other words, nothing like the protagonists of most of his work! I also have met Caitlin R. Kiernan a bunch of times (they’re wonderful), including talking to them again at that same StokerCon. They were visibly not feeling well (I didn’t detain them too long) but both they and their partner Spooky were really nice and Caitlin even took a little time to talk to be about their worries about publishing some of their most violent work at a time when violence was on the rise in the US and the responsibility of the author (and this was BEFORE 2020…).
By the same token, there were a few writers I REALLY wanted to talk to (I honestly don’t remember names) who basically just blew me off or just said “Fine, give me something to sign.” I didn’t actually *want* an autograph; I honestly wanted to talk to them! Horror/SF (speculative fiction) is one of my major fields of study and I wanted to talk about their work and the genre, but they were obviously much more interested in talking to people they already knew and/or avoiding the “little people.”
Honestly, sometimes when I discover a contemporary author I really love, I try *not* to find out too much about them because I don’t want to discover terrible things and then have to ask myself if I feel okay reading their work any more. (I used to really, REALLY like Warren Ellis…)
One of my regrets is that I only got up the nerve to go to SF conventions shortly after Iain (M) Banks passed away. He was a mainstay of UK conventions, and by all reports, he was really approachable and a lot of fun to talk to.
I personally would have loved to have met Ray Bradbury. He was supposed to be a pretty nice guy, especially to fans and scholars. I also regret never meeting Terry Pratchett. I’ve not yet met Neil Gaiman (I went to the stage show he and Amanda Palmer were doing pre-coronavirus but that didn’t include getting to meet them). Maybe one of these days…
Authors are people and fans can be very demanding. They’ve got things they want to do at conventions too – like talk to friends they only get a chance to see at conventions or to authors they admire and haven’t had the change to meet before themselves – not to mention all the business/events and lack of sleep.
It’s cool you had the chance to talk to some, but you can’t really expect that from everyone you want to or blame them for having other priorities.
Oh, I don’t blame them! For example, Kiernan said they couldn’t talk more because they weren’t feeling well and I would NEVER impose. I am NOT one of those fans who (as per a story from Stephen King) follow writers into the bathroom and try to talk to them while they’re pooping and keep shoving books under the stall door for them to sign!
HOWEVER, I am also not a fan of rudeness or meanness. And although I was *definitely* fangirling, I was also a participant on two panels during the conference that involved scholarly discussions of the horror genre. I have taught and published works about horror/SF. After one of my panels (the one where I talked about Shirley Jackson, IIRC), a lot of people wanted to talk to me. I was pretty tired but I still took time to talk to everyone and wasn’t rude.
I’m aware that this response probably comes off as really pompous and narcissistic. I am sorry about that. I’m just trying to say that being rude and blowing people off isn’t very professional. I understand if someone is rude or overly demanding of an author/creator/etc. but if that same someone is politely trying to start a conversation or ask questions, at least that should merit a response like “I’m sorry but I just can’t talk right now” rather than being rude or insulting that person.
perceiving yourself as a hussy for taking birth control when you aren’t having sex is like perceiving yourself as a reckless driver because you put your seatbelt on when you go out to do your errands (or whatever other perfectly normal stuff you do with your car)
It’s some crap people are force fed, for the longest time my mom told me to NOT tell people that I was on birth control (I got my period at 9 and it nearly killed me, so the medication was VERY NECESSERY) because I’d be perceived as a “hussy” for it because ONLY women having TONS of sex needed the protection.
It’s something the church had told her, and she only let me take the medication because the doctor told her I’d die of anemia otherwise.
So I don’t blame Joyce for having feelings about it ya know? It’s stuff she’s heard since she started menstrating I am sure.
Uh, no considering Becky said something about “Every few months just one of Joyce’s Ovaries hates her” It’s probably PSOS, and even then all you can really do for it is B/C.
It’s not just bad cramps, she was feeling the pain in her back, and becoming pale so probably having a lot of blood loss.
“I miswrote something because I got distracted by Tits” does sound very plausible, though, especially because we’re talking about a bunch of cloistered monks.
I DO wish people would stop conflating Satan and Lucifer, though.
We don’t know yet. It sounds like Joyce got a “here’s something to treat the symptoms for now, and a referral to go see s specialist to find and treat the root cause” from the GP.
I can see why Joyce wouldn’t like Dina. Dina comes off as holding negative an inherently negative view about Joyce. I don’t think it matters to Dina that Joyce has changed.
However, Dina not liking Joyce is understandable. Joyce was probably the most EMBARRASSING person on campus. It’s a miracle that Joyce has any friends. Sometimes niceness isn’t enough to get over being so regressive. Once she’s proven that she’s so wildly behind her peers in understanding I see why she stays there for good. She earned it. She shouldn’t have been so loud about her beliefs. Most conservatives are smart enough to realize when to not show off that part of themselves. She should’ve learned her lesson the first time and had her epiphanies privately. She will always need to make up for making people feel uncomfortable and perpetually bad ideas. She should be ashamed of her former beliefs and have to apologize. At this point someone needs to tell Joyce that she was being a burden. She need to kiss the feet of the people that helped her become more informed. They really didn’t have to and she didn’t deserve it inherently. Just because everything is new doesn’t excuse her ignorance. She had the internet she could’ve corrected herself. No one held my hand. They ignored me and didn’t hide their contempt for my regressive faith. And why should they? I don’t pity myself, it made me better. Now I can live my life making up for my mistakes and reap the benefits of not being a hateful donkey’s ass. Living in reality is it’s own reward.
That said to me, she already has apologized with her actions. Like her or not she stuck by Becky when it would’ve been easier to turn her away. She would’ve kept her community and family. She’s clearly no that person any more and Dina knows it. As in the wrong as Joyce was in the past, There needs to be an expiration date on morally condemning someone on past actions. Joyce isn’t an abuser or a person that inflicts cruelty for the sake of cruelty, she’s not beyond redemption.
I get why Dina doesn’t like her, but she is still her Girlfriend’s best friend. It wouldn’t kill her to at least acknowledge that Joyce has stuck with Becky through it all. If you want to be apart of someone’s life, it helps to at least try to understand the important people in their life. Joyce was there before Dina. Dina can’t keep treating Joyce as if her perspective doesn’t matter because “she didn’t have it worse.” She demonstrated that when she interrogated Joyce’s life. You don’t go up to people and immediately start crying about abuse you did not experience and start talking about a completely different person. Why should Joyce comfort Dina about her life? Maybe I would’ve comforted her in the past, but now I would tell Dina to kick rocks and get out. Dina could have waited to ask Becky about Becky’s life.
I understand that Dina has a harder time with people due to her disability. At a certain point it’s an explanation and can’t be used as an excuse. she is more than capable of navigating her own struggles and taking responsibility. It does her a disservice otherwise. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes and Dina deserve to be treated directly and on equal terms. She has feelings and can understand how they both could’ve acted better. Very few characters are past the point of no return. I can’t wait until she takes people to task for treating her fragile. Like honestly, Dina you go girl. You show up imperfectly and make people respect and see you as a full human being.
I think I have an idea why my comments get stuck in moderation constantly. Willis, I am so sorry for being an asshole and writing that deranged comment I can’t remember what I was on about but it doesn’t matter. It was inexcusable. I won’t try to comment here anymore. For what it’s worth, you’re a fantastic writer and I enjoy dumbing of age. I will be buying your books and maybe some merch when I can. It is that absolute bare minimum and I should’ve apologize years(?) ago. Again, I am so sorry. You have every right to dislike me.
Okay it was Comments plural. If I remember correctly. It was a few stupid comments just arguing over something not even really in the story. Okay I’m embarrassed and I wish I wrote it right the first time goodbye
If it helps, apparently the comment section’s moderation took has been on a bit of a hair trigger these past few days, woth daily regulars getting trapped in moderation hell.
Yup. A few of my comments got inexplicably caught in the spam filter recently. I thought maybe there was some new phrase added after that last jerk who got called out on Twitter was booted, or something like that.
I am very confused that my comments is up. I will say, there is a huge chance I just over thought it and the man just doesn’t care that much about a literal rando. If I was honest, I would admit that most people aren’t as sensitive as me. But I don’t know. I’m not even entirely sure what or who runs the comment section. I just try to read it.
All this build up of people hoping for or expecting a Joyce freak out for various reasons is making me expect her to not freak out at all over any of it
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A reasonable prediction from our science star Dina, now we await the data.
Data that will form quite the spectacle, to say the very LEAST! Oh my. 🤯
In the meantime, I actually intend to do a little data gathering myself! 😃
I’m hiring voice actors for a Dumbing of Age fan game I’m making, and I need your input to help me find someone to voice Dina!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScCOysG-mfoxbNbDuxAvQMGKcI9xUggVAb15IkJM8fp7e6QKw/viewform
Not sure who’d voice Dina. But whoever did Judy from Zootopia would be perfect for Joyce.
That was none other than Ginnifer Goodwin, who you might remember as Snow White in Once Upon a Time!
Oh I remember her, but not from there. She was the young wife in Big Love as well.
Oooh a DOA fan game? Do you already have someone for the music?
No I do not.
Would you be interested in being a composer for the game? 😃
My discord is on my Newgrounds page if you click my name! 😉
Would you also be interested in a proofreader? I’ve worked on games before and would honestly love to do more.
It’s weird. I have a voice in my head for Dina that I’m pretty sure came from somewhere, but absolutely no idea where that somewhere is or how to describe it.
Is it David Hayter, famous voice of Snake from Metal Gear?
o o f
Ouch. That one kind of hurt. I guess Joyce did call her a robot though….Joyce and Dina don’t like each other.
I think Dina is going to let that slide as something brought about by exceptional pain.
Which would be nice of her.
The best thing to do when someone insults you is to forget about it and pretend it never happened, until the next time you get into a fight with them, where you will conveniently remember all the terrible shit they said to you so you can throw it back in their face.
After all, revenge is a dish best served all at once.
Please don’t so this with someone you actually want a healthy relationship with.
So you’re saying I can do it if I want an unhealthy relationship? Score.
I thought it was to pretend to forget the insult until you could lure them into a crypt with the promise of a cask of amontillado and then wall them inside forever.
Did classical literature lie to me?
Pro-Tip: when promising Amontillado, do not use “quick set” use regular mortar. Mix it up just before you change clothes and go to the party to fetch your victim,… er, subject.then lure his drunk ass to the scene of … to the construction site.
That will only work with most recent crypts, old ones require a certain amount of chalk in the mortar that will take a few weeks/month to dry. The trick is to wall people inside that is slightly curved so they risk to perish under heavy. Another trick would be to have a party of accomplices to move really big rocks to make a dry wall – make sure to have mason with you, dry walling can have a lot of embushes.
Whatver you choose, don’t forget to take your time checking levels, you don’t want a moist palace crumble around its death-cave for an uneven wall.
I was tired while commenting, can you tell by the missing words and crumbling syntax?
Well most important, I failed to translate properly the main word around which I based my comment, which is not chalk (craie or argile) but lime (chaux)… not that it ain’t tricky, bc Lehm that ressembles the word lime is clay (or even chalk, depending of level of chalk in the clay) while Kalk that ressembles chalk is rather chaux (lime). Yay for false-friending in three languages.
Especially as she contributed to that pain by not moving when asked, because getting her question answered was more important.
I don’t think they hate each other or anything, but they’ve always had issues. Creationism vs Science, Joyce saying she was “like a kid” when Becky kissed her, and yes, the robot thing.
I do think the two have potential to be friends, like actual friends, but it’s going to take some understanding, and they’re not there right now.
They don’t hate each other. I think they both care about Becky too much for that, but I don’t think they’d spend much or any time together if Becky didn’t exist.
Honestly. i would enjoy a snarky Dina from time to time cause its something rather unexpected and in this more surprising and funny, which is much much better then seeing Malaya or Carla who are just egotistical A-holes all the time.
I got the impression that’s water under the bridge already. And she’s just about to leave after seeing Becky off
So uh Dina, you are gonna wait for Becky in front of the classroom until the class is finished ? And you don’t even have a phone or a book ? 🙁
Eh, It’s a Robin class. There’s a 50/50 chance she’ll run out of things to say in 10 minutes and then let everyone leave early.
Probably even less than that, considering what Becky’s about to do in 30 seconds or less.
She’s is going to mentally watch Jurassic Park in her head, which she has every frame of memorized.
She is also going to mentally work on her essay of its scientific inaccuracies, which is currently on its 37th volume.
Her brain power, I just want to be one with it forever 😍🧠🌌🥹
Never underestimate the ability of autistic people to occupy themselves thinking about their special interest.
It’s a neurodivergent stripe that can occur alongside many others in countless unique combinations in us neurodivergents.
And frankly, it is one of my stripes that I have been out of touch with for quite some time.
🥺🥺🥺
I was just posting on a forum thread about literally that. “So, this autistic special interest thing. Do you have it? Does it always play out like in the stereotypes or the diagnostic criteria?” People on the thread had a VERY wide range of experiences. Me, I have extremely strong interests, but I don’t do the “hyperfocus on memorising details” thing at all.
And today I realized that that is not normal introvert behavior just because I always did it.
“normal”? Why care? What’s “””normal””” today?
Being able to do that all in your brain is a very wonderful power.
Speaking from experience, it’s definitely something you shouldn’t take for granted. 😖
I care mostly because it changes my expectations for what is reasonable to expect of other people. I have to do that a lot.
I guess that’s true, sorry if I was came off insensitive,
It’s just that I really really miss being able to hyperfocus on science like I used to.
I haven’t felt the spark in SO SO long, and sometimes I worry I’ve lost this stripe, and that I’ll never be able to feel cognitive euphoria like that again
😭😭😭
Settle for cognitive disonance instead, it’s so much fun…she said speaking from experience. Prolly should slip the /s in there somewhere too.
Been there. Been deep in there, worrying if I’d lost my smarts or something, or just feel today behind. But I got it back, recently. Writing this to let you know it’s not a one way street. Sometimes you gotta work through other stuff first, get over insecurities, stop worrying so much. Because, fun fact, you can’t really focus on science while you’re worrying about whether you’ll be able to focus. So, take it easy 🙂
In an ideal universe, ‘Normal’ would simply be a shorthand for “This is my headspace today.” Comparisons to others might be the way that society sets the bar for ‘normal’, but it’s hardly a foolproof metric. You are you; you are not them, and they are not you. So you be you. If other people think that’s not ‘normal’, then that’s on them (rider: this applies to all behaviours not actively breaking local laws, including the laws of physics).
This is a very narrow, stifling view of personal normality. If I wanna travel at FTL speeds or double-jump across a wide gap during casual conversation, I should be allowed to.
She enjoys it superficially as a cornerstone of mainstream dinosaur-themed entertainment, but maybe not enough to memorize frame-by-frame. Maybe she’s replaying a mentally DVR-ed documentary.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/piano/
If you recall, she spent a great deal of time at the start of the comic just standing behind doors. This is likely an improvement – at least this way she won’t accidentally give someone a heart attack.
Sometimes, a person doesn’t need physical media in front of their face to be fine with waiting somewhere for a while. I’m not sure why you’d think she doesn’t have a phone with her though, and if it’s just because she hasn’t got it out at the moment, see my first statement. Personally, I enjoy the occasional bout of sitting/standing in place and being alone with my thoughts for an extended period of time.
This is me. On meds it’s a litter-al torrent of stream-of-consciousness thoughts, usually Very entertaining-slash-absorbing, so no external devices needed. If not on meds, it’s like a cataract of torrents falling into my brain, squirrel! much like ‘Dug’ in the movie “UP!” Ball!, it’s a timeless place, where time has no meaning… Wanna ride bikes? And boredom cannot/dare not show it’s face for fear of so much chaos wrapped up in fun ideas.
Pardon the repetition, but what is “referral” referring to? I have no experience in this area, so I’m curious what that means in this context and why Joyce seems to be particularly uncomfortable with it.
I assume it means she’s getting a full-time obgyn.
I see two possibilities.
1) The campus doctor is not especially qualified to deal with matters of this nature, and referred her to someone who is. So we’re getting a “Joyce goes to the OB/GYN” story at some point.
2) Her freak out at being “examined”, and her general anxiety with the situation, were such that she was recommended a therapist.
Honestly, she probably needs both.
She definitely needs both.
I’m guessing mental health. She never talked to anyone after any of her many traumatic experiences over the last twelve ye– i mean semester.
TBF she has to unravel the last 12-18 years in comic time as well.
Prolly a referral to a OB GYN.
Some places need you to be seen by someone and then referred over to their office for further treatment. It usually an insurance thing.
The referral is her getting plans to see a doctor about something specific. If your doctor believes you have a problem with your heart, they will right you a referral to a cardiologist.
That make more sense?
I thought every Medical Person had an all-encompassing knowledge of every part of human anatomy and health and could provide flawless information with equal competence to any one of their compatriots.
It seems she went to the on-campus health center, which probably only has general medicine practitioners. They likely referred her to a specialist (OB/GYN…although a referral to a PsyD would certainly be a good idea, I doubt they pushed that without Joyce bringing it up)
A referral is a writ issued by a primary care physician (a.k.a family doctor, a.k.a. general practitioner) charging a patient to consult a specialised doctor about a specific medical issue. In some places some specialists will not accept a patient without they have a referral. In others the specialist will not be paid, or will not be paid only a lower fee without the patient has a referral. In some places the patient’s insurance provider will not reimburse the specialist’s fee to the patient unless the patient has a referral.
Referrals are a measure to reduce the cost of medical care by restricting the consumption of expensive specialists’ services.
That Joyce’s GP has given her a referral as well as a prescription suggests that she does not believe that the treatment prescribed is definitive, but thinks that Joyce needs further treatment or definitive treatment by some more specialised doctor, perhaps with path tests or imaging studies to inform that treatment. The prescription is probably for a palliative of temporary treatment.
read “palliative or temporary”
Yeah, it’s probably a referral to an OB/GYN who may be able to give a more definitive diagnosis.
A referral is basically calling a specific type of doctor and going ‘hey, this person needs an appointment for specific issues, let them know when you have an appointment slot for them’.
Then you wait until you get a letter with an appointment or they reject the referral based on symptoms/medical history and say ‘no, this person sounds fine/like they do not need my time’.
Because Joyce is having period issues, guess what kind of specialist she would be referred to and you’ll know why she is freaked out.
Other options are referrals for a surgery consultation or a biopsy. Or for an IUD. Or to an endocrinologist. My sis has been having metrorrhagia for over a year and she has had to see a LOT of specialists.
Have Dina and Joyce always been so… awkward, around each other? Or is this something new?
Is Joyce going to be embarassed in front of Becky because of her birth control pills? Or is Joyce going to try and hide it from Becky?
No, they were usually either ignoring or yelling at each other.
Might be because of their last conversation. Dina pushed Joyce to discuss spanking and trauma when she really didn’t want to (and was in physical pain), and Joyce was flippant and insulted Dina (whether or not she meant to)
Joyce said the world was 6,000 years old and dinosaurs were fake or something.
I know Joyce was also shitty at her but they’ve been awkward since the beginning.
Yeah one of their early interactions was Dina “shielding” Becky from Joyce shouting how she can save this one.
They’ve never really gotten along well.
Dina and Joyce have a strange sort of frenemy dynamic where they are both polar opposites who possibly hate each other on a fundamental level, yet also share an almost uncanny familiarity at the same time. So yeah, it’s always been like this.
I cannot WAIT for those two to have a genuine discussion about atheism, I have been anticipating that since they briefly skirted around the topic previously before Becky interrupted.
I kind of doubt that’s going to happen. Dina doesn’t seem to care about her atheism in any way that makes the subject important to her. I doubt she would find the conversation all that interesting.
She cares about Joyce’s version of non-atheism though. Or at least, she used to.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/renounce/
Thanks for the reminder Rose.
I could be wrong here, and I look forward to finding out either way. But I still get the feeling that they come to their atheism from such different places that I don’t know if they’ll actually have much to talk about.
Joyce’s atheism is seems deeply emotional, whereas Dina’s simply is. Joyce appears to be most interested in railing against all the adults who betrayed her by raising her in a fundamentalist cult, while Dina would rather talk about dinosaur evolution.
Though perhaps Dina’s recent realization that Becky’s upbringing included physical abuse will get her more interested in hearing about Joyce’s experiences.
Anyway, I’ve spend way too much time rewriting this comment instead of getting stuff done. But thanks everyone for reading my ramblings! 😛
Dina: I am stunned your upbringing included assault.
Becky: Love ya, girl, but my dad kidnapped me with a shotgun.
It was a rifle, not a shotgun.
I don’t expect this to happen, but maximum calamity scenario: Becky finds out about Joyce’s BC, mocks her about it, and in the spiel lets slip that she and Dina fucked, and that’s how Joyce finds out, right in the middle of peak hypocrisy.
Then for extra tragedy, Dina walks in just as Becky is going off justifying their premarital taco party to her religious worldview.
A tragedy to rival Hamlet, truly.
oh god please let this be the plan in the buffer
I mean i don’t think it’s becky’s MO at all but it WOULD be funny.
Here’s hoping that Becky doesn’t actually mock her friend for necessary healthcare.
Honestly, I think it’d be much more about Joyce’s atheism than the BC itself. Something like this:
B: “Look at you, you haven’t been an amoral atheist for 5 minutes and you’re already taking birth control, like a slut.”
J: “…it’s to help with my period pains, actually…”
B: “Ah, yeah, that’s why they call it period control and not birth control. Pfft, even I’m not on BC and I’m fucking my girlf-” *quickly covers mouth with hands*
Also, I’m not sure Becky would see BC as healthcare, necessary or otherwise. If anything, she probably has even less knowledge about women-specific health problems than Joyce.
Becky will needle anyone for anything.
Decidedly not chill of you, Dina.
Realizing now: is it possible that NOBODY has told Dina about Joyce’s recent philosophical changes? I would assume Becky would, but Becky is also a walking stack of coping mechanisms so it’s possible she just kicked that can down the road.
I don’t find it likely, but otherwise it seems like Dina wouldn’t be talking shit about Joyce behind her back if she knew Joyce isn’t 100% certified fundie anymore.
Orrrr maybe Dina is processing Becky’s sex-based shame and hangups and is just more broadly lamenting purity culture?
Little of column A, little of column B, possibly.
In any case, I don’t recall them talking about Joyce being atheist yet, at least off-hand.
Dina was there herself when Joyce said that she doesn’t have a soul, and immediately after that Becky called her an apostate. She doesn’t explicitly know but she’s got evidence.
Of course, even with the core of her beliefs changed, Dina is probably correct that a lot of other hangups will still remain. We did see her freaking out a bit at the doctors office, anyway.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/03-trial-and-sarah/hornyjail/ , for reference
I mean the dialog bubble seems to indicate that part was under her breath, its possible Dina didn’t catch it
Even if Dina heard her (like alongcameaspider said, it was probably under her breath), would she even have understood what it meant re: Joyce’s beliefs? One of her two lines in the comic where Becky calls Joyce an apostate is “Becky!” The other is “I am not understanding the conversation more than usual”.
And then the whole waking up Joyce thing happen after her first guess of the meaning of a wooden spoon, “God will cook us something”, was born out of a complete lack of knowledge of the bible.
On the other hand, this is Dina we’re talking about. If she doesn’t understand something, she’ll research and get back to you.
The whole reason she woke Joyce up in the first place was to better understand Becky’s comments re: wooden spoons. Who else would know the context behind that comment better than the other person she knows who grew up in that same exact environment?
She’ll research it if she cares about it. She cared about the wooden spoon thing because she cares about her Becky and it was something that was hurting her in that moment. As far as I can tell, she doesn’t care about the specifics of Christianity. One word or sentence in a whole conversation of words of Christian jargon probably wasn’t worth looking up.
I don’t think Dina’s picked up on it yet, I think we’d have seen if she did.
Very much so. Also, given her passion for science, she is most likely much aware of the limitations of the data she’s gathered so far.
Even given hearing Becky call Dina an apostate and Joyce saying she doesn’t have a soul, she probably unlikely to jump to conclusions that fast.
Joyce. She called Joyce an apostate.
Yeah that’s what I meant. What’s happening to me?
It’s very unchill to explicitly tell somebody that you won’t pry into a sensitive personal subject. It’s also bad to expect that a person will behave in a way that’s consistent with how you’ve seen them behave before. Basic pattern recognition within known parameters is misbehavior.
“You meddlesome hussy!”
—joyce, to herself, in approximately thirty seconds
Lots of people here saying that Dina’s being mean to Joyce, but I feel like she would have a more visibly angry face if it was intentional. “Smile warmly at Becky for me” seems more apathetic towards Joyce’s feelings, which is fair given their last interaction.
ok I take back “lots,” I skimmed the comments too quickly again
Also PS: Welp, Joyce is gonna hide her news and Becky will hide hers. This drama storm is gonna get worse before it gets better, huh?
Neither Joyce nor Becky owe the other person their “news”.
One is a private medical matter, and the other is a private romantic matter. Anyone who thinks you’re obligated to share either is a percussive instrument.
Still, you’re probably right that it will create more drama, since that’s what writers do!
♫ Tick tock, goes the clock ♪
Leslie might have been equipped to handle something like that, but as for Robin lets just say we’ll find out
Say, Sunday, are you new to the comment’s section? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you around here before.
I ask because, I’m kinda part of the unofficial welcoming committee.
Robin is in fact equipped to handle absolutely nothing at all, from what we’ve seen. Leslie isn’t much better, considering she let one of her students harass two others in the middle of class until they left and then went “wow, that was super impressive”.
I am slightly annoyed at Dina for being the umpteenth person to predict Joyce’s big freak about taking “slut pills”. I hope they’re all proven wrong.
Also this feels kinda too socially saavy for Dina, who once had to be told by Amber she was hanging out with a twelve year old. It hasn’t even been a full year since that incident.
Wait, I’m lost. So she’s talking about Joyce?
Eh, if that’s the case it just seems like a reasonable prediction given evidence she’s gathered from both Joyce and Becky.
Chains of the Sunday Sunday are quite formidable and fickle, and Dina has firsthand experience using the Power of Science to break a few of Becky’s.
Wait you think she could be talking about Becky in that final panel? Because if so, then her statement becomes “I will respect Joyce’s privacy until Becky calls herself a hussy”, meaning she won’t respect Joyce’s privacy thereafter. Kind of a dick move
I actually had to look up “Hussy” and I interpreted it very literally with the first definition of “promiscuous”, because the “her” pronoun in the last panel was unclear to me.
It would still apply to Joyce, no? Because she was raised to associate birth control of any kind with promiscuity.
Yes. Joyce is the hussy, according to Joyce, within the scenario Dina is imagining/anticipating based on Joyce’s prior behavior.
Okay but only one of them is actually having sex and may have a breakdown seeing her best friend after having had coitus.
I don’t entirely follow you, here. Why would Dina be talking to herself about respecting Becky’s privacy after telling Joyce that she’d respect Joyce’s? The last panel is Dina adding a personal note to the statement she made at the bottom of Panel 2, nothing to do with Becky directly.
Hussy could apply to either of them.
Joyce is taking a prescription, which isn’t even necessarily birth control.
Becky has had premarital hanky panky and is clearly not in the most stable emotional place about having done so.
Honestly either of them could have a complete freak out after seeing the other.
I read it as talking about Joyce as well but I get why someone could assume it was Becky.
she was raised by conservative fundies (who are known for degrading every form of contraception as inherently sexual even when used medically), was very thoroughly brainwashed, can’t say “sex” or “horny” without wincing, said earlier that day that menstrual pain is punishment for eve biting the apple, and threw a fit about going to see an eye doctor a few days prior. their assumptions are not without precedent.
I’m not saying these predictions are going to be wrong, I’m saying it’s getting annoying that everyone -including the incredibly socially awkward Dina- are making assumptions about what Joyce’s big freakout will be.
Dina is not even particularly close to Joyce and from what we know of her, she did not have any pre-conceptions about “sex shaming Christians” prior to university. I can understand these statements from Sarah and Becky, but Dina?
I agree. In fact Dina’s only experience with “sex-shaming Christians” seems to be her own girlfriend, who they are currently working through those issues.
It could be a sign to the audience that Dina has made a lot of progress in understanding other people’s motivations, social cues, and belief systems since the beginning of Freshman year. But I agree, it’s a little sudden and jarring.
Well, there are a lot of presumptions in this.
First, the prescription is birth control.
Wouldn’t you just prescribe some pain killer/ cramp reducers if you are referring your patient to another doctor anyway?
Second: Joyce has the association that birth control is only taken by promiscuous people (valid from what we know of her)
Thirty: No one has yet pointed out to Joyce that prescription is, in fact, birth control, so Dina’s comment will take a moment to be processed before Joyce has a meltdown.
(Given Becky’s hang ups about sex, it’s not jumping to conclusions that Joyce will have them, too. Still,it’s curious Dina would have to know about the possibility of birth control being prescribed for menstrual cramps, and I’m not entirely sure she would.)
Why wouldn’t she?
Dina is a woman.
She’s older than half the cast.
And medicine is another aspect of science.
She also has her mother in her life.
That’s at least four variables that could reasonably be a source of said knowledge: her personal experience, her mother’s experience, general knowledge of science/medicine, and simply being a little older so possibly exposed to it sometime in her life.
None of that makes it Likely that she knows, but none of Dina being Dina makes it less likely, either.
Why would she? If she doesn’t suffer from cramps herself – and that hasn’t come up – I see no reason why she should know. It’s not like all mothers talk to their children about those things (at all or about that aspect).
I gave you four reasons she might know.
The cramp reducer is birth control. There isn’t really another medicate that does any sort of cramp reduction
Now that seems like a good way to get people hooked on birth control. in my time, they might change the birth control prescription for those who used it anyway, but gave you anti-cramp meds if you didn’t. only for recurring instances – which we didn’t yet see with Joyce – they might have ask you to get on a birth control regime. Haven’t been to a doc on that topic for ages, so things might have changed?
Jeez, this felt so mean coming from Dina… I think they’ve both said not great things to each other in the past but for some reason “hussy” just feels a bit too far. Though I suppose she could’ve said jezebel and that would’ve been worse?
Anways, inb4 Robin’s class is about contraception or something like that.
Dina’s not calling Joyce a hussy, she’s predicting that Joyce perceives *herself* as a ‘hussy’ for being on BC pills.
Is that the mistake people who are mad at Dina today are making?
Joyce is visibly freaking out about something. Given the appointment she’s just come from I’m also assuming that’s what she’s freaking out about. Just because she’s an atheist now doesn’t mean all her hangups just went poof.
I really don’t know what to think of Dina here.
It’s possible that she’s just being completely polite to Joyce, despite their interaction earlier today where Joyce insulted her after Dina badgered her. It’s also possible that Dina is somewhat enjoying the knowledge that Joyce is very unsettled and about to freak out. I don’t know how to read it.
As agonizing as it is for her, Joyce’s emotional reflexes are still very much under the undue control of her indoctrination, and Dina probably knows this too.
Having firsthand experience breaking a few of Becky’s Chains of Sunday School, this seems like a rather reasonable prediction on behalf of Dina, given the evidence she’s gathered.
Sometimes people are just neutrally polite during short interactions that last a few seconds and then end, without anything Importantly Interpersonal ™ happening behind the mind’s eye.
A little of both? I could be reading too much ito it, but I suspect that after Joyce called her a “robot,” Dina is quietly amused to watch Joyce struggling with her own “programming”.
Is she visibly freaking out? She ran into Dina without expecting her there, Dina is asking her about something that she’s generally super private about, their last interaction ended with Dina getting angry and storming off but now Dina’s acting as though that never happened…. I read Joyce as trying to handle the unexpected interaction while, you know, still almost certainly being in a lot of pain.
Yes, she almost certainly still has most of her hangups. Doesn’t mean it’s okay for Dina to poke and prod at them. She’s probably going to take them to a place she thinks is private and deal with them there, not right here, right now, with someone she’s not comfortable or on good terms with.
Is Dina really acting like it never happened, or is she simply not acting like it’s still happening? There’s an important difference.
Before I answer, I want to say I’m bad at reading people in real life, and in cartoons it’s sometimes easier because we get looks into their inner thoughts and processes, but it’s sometimes harder because you lose a lot of body language and tone and everything when it’s flattened into two-dimensional single-moments-in-time. I get it wrong often enough in real life, it’s definitely possible I’m getting it wrong here.
I think Dina’s acting as though she didn’t get angry at Joyce and storm off. That’s something that definitely happened. Maybe it’s something that wasn’t a big enough deal to Dina to for her to think it needs to be acknowledged, but if I were in Joyce’s position (and had been awake enough for the end of that conversation, because I’m don’t think Joyce was fully awake for most of that) I’d think it would need to be acknowledged. I’d be wondering, last time she said I was an asshole for something that I can’t change without a time machine (being spanked as a child) and stormed out, did she not mean it, why is she now choosing to engage (beyond a simple greeting) with someone she thinks is an asshole, does she not think I’m an asshole any more, what has changed?
Yea, I’m confused, especially considering their last interaction ended with Joyce being offensive to Dina.
I’d say Dina saying a line after Joyce leaves that describes how she assumes Joyce will perceive herself based on how Joyce has operated isn’t really that bad, like Dina isn’t Joyce’s bff, she’s not one of the three people who are within her sphere and know what’s happening with her(or at least should)
I say this as a non-American who doesn’t really get hussy in a cultural context so *shrug*
I’m not seeing her as visibly any different from before. She’s just kind of in agony.
Joyce is not obviously freaking out. She’s still in pain.
What’s a “hussy”? Non-american here.
It’s an insulting term for a woman who is overly inclined to have sex, spoken by someone who believes in a moral code that dictates that women should not be so inclined.
A very very very slightly more polite and refined way of saying slut. And as pointed out by Huttj although I had assumed it didn’t need to since the comic makes it obvious Dina isn’t calling Joyce a hussy, Dina is assuming that Joyce will internally feel like and be calling herself a hussy because of Joyce’s hangups about sex which as I said are unlikely to have just vanished overnight because she converted to Atheism.
I find it vaguely hilarious that etymologically a “hussy” was a woman who did housework and a “slut” was one who didn’t.
“Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t”, saith misogyny.
It’s a little old fashioned but something a conservative Christian might use.
Becky might use it to derogate Dorothy, for instance.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/resilient/
It’s a derogatory term for a sexually active woman. Kind of an old fashioned one as well, so if someone who isn’t older or from a very conservative background is using it, it’s probably in a somewhat self aware and ironic way.
When I was a child, wearing makeup was enough to get you called a “painted hussy.”
In American custom, the traditional response to this question would usually be something along the lines of “Your mom”, followed by a vigorous high-five delivered to an adjacent crony. Optionally, this might then be followed by an enthusiastic raising of the arm and a celebratory bellow of “Whoooooaaaa!”, depending on region, maturity, and level of intoxication. Sudden metamorphosis into a humanoid bluejay or raccoon may also be involved.
???
I thought that the “Your mom for a nickel” was a DOA insider, but you sound like t’s common?
Sir, “Your mom” is a tradition as old as Shakespeare. AS SHAKESPEARE, SIR!
Demetrius: “Villain, what hast thou done?”
Aaron: “That which thou canst not undo.”
Chiron: “Thou hast undone our mother.”
Aaron: “Villain, I have done thy mother.”
Shakespeare “Titus Andronicus” 4. akt, scene 2
I was just trying to make a pseudo-intelligent reference to Regular Show, idk about inside jokes or anything like that.
Now that I think about it, is Dina effectively saying that she won’t respect Joyce’s privacy if the matter is declared publicly? If Joyce has a public freak out about her situation, then it’s open season to discuss her (Joyce’s) menstrual cycle with others? What the hell Dina
I think the implication is just that Dina doesn’t expect it to be private for long.
It’s not even really much of an implication, she’s basically saying it outright, in plain language. I think sometimes we overanalyse these small interactions*.
*More than usual
America’s concept that it’s a horrible thing to discuss difficult menstrual cycles in public means that American women are expected to suffer in silence while women in Spain are now about to get up to three paid days off every month.
So yeah, what the hell Dina? Are you trying to cost our capitalist overlords money?
That is awesome news from Spain! A couple of my friends moved there last year, partly for work but partly because it’s a more enlightened place than Britain these days.
If Joyce declares the matter publicly, it’s a moot point.
But what if she declares it publicly to literally everyone she meets, and then demands they all keep it a secret from Becky, and JUST Becky, specifically?
Obviously, Dina would be the worst person in the world to tell Becky, after that!
I think she’s saying she’ll do the bare minimum and nothing more.
Here’s hoping Joyce feels better than that.
Little sad we didn’t get to see more of Joyce talking to the doctor but tbh, it’s probably for the best. That storyline was gonna be bittersweet for me in any case so I’m gonna focus on the part of me that’s happy for Joyce.
“Little sad we didn’t get to see more of Joyce talking to the doctor”
Look, SOMEONE has to respect Joyce’ privacy, even if it’s just Willis.
Also, y’know, HIPAA violation.
Dina is not a covered entity or business associate.
https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/covered-entities/index.html
(It’s ok. Most people do not understand HIPAA.)
I meant Joyce’s conversation with Kaur.
Man I hope the only thing bothering Joyce right now (besides the obvious…*gestures* …stuff) is just that all of her “friends” seem to really be on her case lately when all she ever wanted to do was rest.
To be fair…
(Uh to be faaaaaaiiiiiiir….)
To be fair, that’s kind of what she always did to others, and never really let up. That is what they are used to from her, and grow so used to it that’s what they do for her in return. (The whole “treat others as you want to be treated.” It doesn’t always account for the times in your life when you need something different.)
damn that’s cold and accurate.
I’d kind of enjoy seeing Joyce keep her ‘hussy’ status pretty much to herself. Nothing good has come from her friends hearing her private personal business lately.
If she has a freakout in front of anyone, I want it to be Joe. He’s actually motivated to be good to Joyce, which is more than can be said for most others in her circle.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Joyce taking her negative/complex emotions about going on birth control and everything that implies or enables for her to Joe would be DELIGHTFUL, both because he is the person in her circle who has been most supportive and open-minded towards her deconversion from Christianity, and also because of the emotional turmoil it would instigate in HIM, as the person in love with her who won’t even entertain the opportunity of acting on those feelings because he thinks he’ll “ruin” her. It’s a MINEFIELD and I would love to see him forced to navigate it because he cares about her too much to step back from her.
Yeah I just caught up with the series
Dina is good with secrets
You know, compared to everyone else
Ten bucks says that this storyline ends with Joyce literally having it up to HERE with everyone, going to Joe’s room, stripping off everything… and Joe, obviously, saying no.
I mean, I hope my expectations will be subverted, but man, the dominoes seem to be set up neatly to all fall. I don’t think I can wait for the eventual surprise twist in like October.
She might just START with Joe. Joyce isn’t just in horny jail, she’s in Superman and the walls are crumbling from the strain. As per Ruthless, half of Bloomington is at risk.
Supermax. To coin a phrase “Damn you autocorrect!”
I interpreted that as “The Kryptonians have condemned Joyce to the horny Phantom Zone for all eternity,” which works too….
Joyce pegs Superman, afternoon of butt stuff
She’s in Horny Stormcage.
Not everyone leaves culty religions and becomes a sex-fiend.
I mean I did, but not everyone does.
…I mean he’d have a good reason to say no, she’s on her period and thus this might be messy.
This mean Dina is going to be wild against Joyce and i love it!!! Kinda hope Robin will be able to stop the disaster throwing herself between them.
The piling-up of assumptions about Joyce freaking out for some reason that is continuously coming from the Becky/Dina side is now out of control. Be they right or not, I am starting to root for all the situation to blow in their faces Carla-pie style.
Fuck off, Dina.
I don’t know from University clinics, does Joyce getting a prescription mean she gets the actual pills or whatever immediately, or is it the usual “here is a piece of paper with illegible scribbles on it for you to take to a drug store where you will have to fill out 8 pages of poorly photocopied forms and then wait for a week until they tell you that they can’t get those pills anymore”?
JFC, is that what happens in the US?
If you don’t already have an established account with a drug store or other pharmacy, yes. At least the first part. Obviously the ‘wait a week’ and ‘we can’t get that anymore’ aren’t inevitable. And often they can get it for you in 30 minutes or so if you insist.
(And of course in the US you may need to pay a “copayment” for what your insurance doesn’t cover, which can be anything up to several hundred dollars, depending on the drug and your insurance..)
I’d lol, but that’s just too depressing.
You have to laugh, because it is impossible to cry as hard as the situation calls for.
I guess it’s like the Uvalde shooting. Blessed be The Onion, who holds back no punches: https://www.theonion.com/
They keep that exact article title permenantly on their clipboard these days, I’ve noticed.
They might as well, it’s not like it’s ever outdated.
*checks, nods, and scrolls… and scrolls…*
dang, they really aren’t.
Not really. It’s mostly all done online these days. I guess you could probably still get a physical prescription written down on a piece of paper, but everything I’ve had in the last decade or more has just been sent over to the pharmacy I told them to use. Nor have I had to fill out any paperwork at the pharmacy – just hand over my ID and insurance card the first time.
Sometimes you do have to wait – no pharmacy will have everything in stock, but for something common like birth control that’ll be available.
It looks to me like the IU student health center has a pharmacy on site, so while it’s technically a different place and the doctor doesn’t give you the pills directly, you basically go down the hall and pick them up. Again, assuming they’re not something rarely needed.
thumbupemoji
In my experience it depends on what sort of preexisting relationship with a pharmacy you have. Hard copy prescriptions can be taken wherever you prefer. If you know where you prefer, they can call it in.
Yeah, though you don’t really need a preexisting relationship. I picked a pharmacy basically because I drove by it regularly – it was convenient. Hadn’t actually been there before.
I went to a large state university in NC, similar to IU, and our student health clinic did have a pharmacy. I went there for what turned out to be pneumonia (this was in 2015) and they were able to give me a corticosteroid injection (which had me feeling significantly better literally on my way out of the building) and antibiotics.
Respecting Joyce’s privacy until Dina expects that Joyce will render it unnecessary via public freakout is polite, IMO. I really hope Joyce subverts the cast’s predictions.
If anyone thinks Dina is being rude, have y’all really never made a prediction to yourselves about a friend/family member/acquaintance’s behavior before?
Everyone has thoughts like this. Dina felt it was important enough to say out loud. It’s a comic thing but it means the line has meaning, otherwise we wouldn’t have seen it.
I thought the meaning is that Willis wants us to know Dina’s thoughts on the matter, and that most of these strips end with a punchline.
The commentators here very occasionally seem to be slightly touchy about, well, everything.
At least we seem to have finally lost all the right-wing toy collectors who used to complain about all the feminism and queerness on Shortpacked then come over here to do it some more….
Yeah I don’t think Dina’s being rude here, just voicing a thought out loud to herself.
She’s not being rude. Rudeness inherently requires an interaction between at least two parties. It’s a social construction (the violation of social expectations of speech or behavior) and does not exist in a vacuum.
What she IS being is contemptuous. Dina has very little respect for Joyce and doesn’t go out of her way to hide that fact.
Thinking about it as just like a thought bubbles makes it make sense yeah.
You might just be surprised, Dina.
David Willis has informed me that referring to Becky’s attempts at rigidly controlling how her best friend is allowed to think because she needs her to exist as her buffer as a walking victim complex means that I, an actual human being unlike his cartoon lesbian, actually queer, actually disabled person whose scholarship is at risk because a teacher has decided that I am not pulling myself by my bootstraps enough while I am having panic attacks in his class and who only got a shot at living a normal life after believing most of it that I was innately broken because no one recognized my disabilities until now, am just like Tucker Carlson, since Becky the cartoon lesbian who canvased for the GOP that one time is in danger of the Tucker Carlsons of the world and I am not.
On the same occasion, I was informed that Ruth and Jennifer being forcibly outed in class by Becky isn’t a problem since David Willis has declared it such, as Ruth is a cartoon character who does not have feelings and Becky the cartoon lesbian definitely is because she is an orphaned queer teenager and Ruth apparently is not. Between this I was also informed that even if a cultural Christian oligarchy is the main, most apparent threat to the lives of people like me, I’m ignoring the danger presented by Bill “I had to look this man up because I’m not American” Maher and reddit incels. I assume he meant this as “smaller entities still present real harms,” this is a thing I already believe and have expressed, but it was apparently very important that I, someone who has every single reason to know who and what is out to ruin the lives of queer and disabled folks, know this while being told for the 8000th time on this site that “wow there really is no difference between atheists and Christians, both sides are the same” while living in a province where my Conservative premier declared that the only help an autistic person needs is to get a job.
Apparently being mean to Becky the cartoon lesbian is a real problem that makes real people uncomfortable. Fair enough. I would then assume I can be uncomfortable about Becky the cartoon lesbian forcibly outing Ruth and Jennifer in a public because she has decided they’re going to kill themselves unless she publicly humiliates them enough that they drop out to her teacher’s approval, but David Willis has assured me it is not a problem since he has declared Ruth the cartoon bisexual is actually perfectly fine with being outed. Presumably Jennifer the also cartoon bisexual is as well even if she is currently not openly identifying as bi and never has, but it’s very important the same guy telling me that I am Tucker Carlson and not considering how reddit incels will get me also made sure I know that my opinion on the safety of my own sexual identity isn’t really that important.
I don’t even have the bootstraps to hang myself with, but I’m glad I learned a lesson about being nice to cartoon lesbians while having every single vulnerable aspect of my life put on trial by the series’ author so he could defend the sanctity of his cartoon lesbian.
If it makes you feel any better, I too have been informed by quite a number of people that while it IS true that catholics are trying to turn their religion into law for everyone else over here (I’d say again, but that would imply that they’ve ever stopped), that the bishop for our second-largest city said that the accusations of pedophilia “are being blown out of proportion, because some of those were just caresses” (cookies for correctly guessing in one what happened to him), that the pope goes around calling transfolk “antinatural” and “nuclear weapons against the plan of god”, urged the Poles to vote for “traditional marriage” and, while being a motherfucker that will never the shut the fuck up, somehow never mentioned how the catholic-aligned government of an African country was literally hunting gay folks down when visiting that country (when a reporter asked him about it afterwards, he said “it wasn’t time to discuss such things”; I can only presume he wants to make sure they kill them all first), somehow the biggest problem of our, and in fact any age, is that I’m rude to these people when pointing it out.
He’s also catching some flack for dancing around the subject of Ukraine and pretending like fault is on both sides somehow.
I had not heard of this.
*googles*
Holy fucking shit.
I mean, my surprise-o-meter is at a solid zero, or perhaps at negative eleventy-billion, but still, holy fucking shit.
“Is it right to provide Ukraine with weapons so that it can defend itself against Russia’s aggression?” “I don’t know how to answer.”
“Francis reflected on Russia’s lethal aggression toward its neighbor and said while he might not go as far as saying NATO’s presence in nearby countries “provoked” Moscow, it “perhaps facilitated” the invasion.”
Fucker can’t die soon enough.
I’ve always thought Francis was pretty good for a Pope, but note that “for a Pope,” a profession which has included some of the world’s most famous poisoners….
The pope, as they say, is catholic.
Also, poison gets a bad rep and it really shouldn’t. Poison=the worst comes from the fact that the people in charge had a bunch of heavily armed and armoured and trained people at their beck and call to kill anyone that got uppity (like thinking that maybe the nobles shouldn’t keep raising taxes to have more money to blow on lavish parties while people starved), but none of them can save you from the cook getting upset that you raped his daughter and slipping a litre of arsenic into your roast pig dinner. It’s sort of the same reason why the pope of the time declared crossbows to be weapons of the devil.
Fair point! Mind you, the dude I’m thinking of was definitely a case of “poisoning down” rather than “poisoning up.” One of the Alexanders was notorious for dealing with anyone who got in his way by inviting them round for dinner and poisoning them.
Hey, at least he bought them dinner.
To be a pope, you MUST be evil. It’s part of the job description of being a cat-lick priest, which you have to become long before you become a pope.
Bergoglio is less evil than the vast majority of popes. But as you’ve correctly pointed out, that ain’t saying much.
You might ask some ultraconservative Church members whether the Pope is Catholic. Their answer would be no.
… It also bugs me when Protestants look at all the vile stuff Catholic clergy have done over the years, and conclude that Catholics are therefore Fake Christians who worship the Devil or something. Not a practicing Catholic myself, but many of my relatives are and they are both pious and basically decent.
*sigh*
Spencer, I attempted to Word Of God you that Ruth did not register harm from that incident because you had begun to use it as a cudgel in the comments against other people. You’ve gone on record repeatedly as enjoying immensely tearing a specific queer character down, and it’s escalated to the point that people had begun coming to me asking why I let you make them feel unsafe. You start flame wars in here constantly, and it gets very personal and I was merely trying to remove a tool from your arsenal so that things might simmer down a bit.
But I guess unfortunately, Hating Becky is too important a part of your personality now and so that any threat to Asking You To Stop Hating Becky is an affront to you as an individual. I’m amused that you think I’m upset that you have attacked my perfect lesbian cartoon, when your feelings towards my perfect lesbian cartoon seem to be way more important to you. Like, I am actually super aware of how attempting you to tone it down a little bit would have played out! That’s why I ignored it for so long, because 1) I like you, and 2) I am a coward. I didn’t want to have to confront the damage you were doing to other queer folks who came to me asking why I let you act like this at them because it would be difficult and there would be no peaceful solution to this because I knew you’d blow up and eventually enter the THREATENING YOU TO BAN ME stage of your usual metamorphosis. I knew I’d lose you from here again.
Every time someone says “uh hey” to you about the way you lash out, you point out specifically that you cannot do harm because you are not a member of the Fundie Evangelical Complex. You are absolved from criticism because you don’t believe in God. So, yeah, I’m going to bring up Bill Maher and Ricky Gervais as examples of atheists who absolutely do harm. I’m not both-sidesing anything. I’m saying don’t use your atheism as a shield from accountability.
I apologize for using American references a Canadian wouldn’t understand.
But at the end of the day, I’m actually a little relieved that I’m the queer person you’ve decided to target today instead of anybody else. Mission accomplished, somehow, by asking you to leave other people alone! That’s right, I Xanatos Gambited this, I’m pretty sure. Tactical genius. More of this, please, less of the other stuff. I get letters.
I’m sorry they’ve been such a headache. People need to remember none of the characters are perfect and this is a story being told one strip at a time. Maybe let it play out and trust the author when he clarifies how the characters felt, yeah?
honestly if spencer had brought up the issue in regards to jennifer instead of ruth, the answer woulda been “sure maybe possibly,” because ruth is absolutely secretly pleased whenever someone publicly digs the billie/ruth relationship out of the memoryhole because she’s definitely not over anything, do it again please
yes as a consolation prize for everyone having to endure this, i am handing out absolutely true character motivations
Ooh, in that case, can we find out Raidah’s real reason for absorbing Jennifer into her social circle? Inquiring minds are curious.
that’s in the buffer somewhere
Jennifer has a massive stack of those poker chip tokens that Sonic Drive-ins will exchange for free drinks. Raidah wants those sweet sweet tokens.
Not bad. You’d think more of this strip’s readers would have a sense of humor.
I guess we’ll find out in anywhere between one week to six months!
Her parents are rich and her dad’s a senator isn’t he? Seems to be within Radiah’s MO
Wait, Señor Billingsworth is a senator? I thought they were just independently wealthy.
No, I’m just dumb and read it wrong, my bad
We don’t know his specific job, but he goes on frequent business trips and had enough influence to get the mayor to kick out the homeless people from downtown Evansville.
If Billingsworth Sr. was a U.S. senator it would absolutely have come up by now. Robin’s re-election campaign for REPRESENTATIVE took up a massive amount of oxygen in the storylines from last semester.
There’s lots of other iterations of power besides federal elected office, or even local office (local levels including such things as mayor, or state rep, or sheriff, or judge). I’m leaning towards Jennifer’s father being a titan of industry (local), but there’s a lot of possibilities. Honestly, he could be running the chamber of commerce, and that would make him a big deal in this part of town.
My impression was just “rich guy” with no particular spin on it. Not actually political, just rich enough to fund the mayor and thus have influence.
David Willis, I owe you an apology. I always err on the side of believing people who say they have been treated badly/abused/harrassed/traumatized/etc. until it’s proven differently. Your posts demonstrate that this is, at best, a very complicated situation. I’m sorry for responding as if you were a bad person without knowing the whole story. There is obviously a lot more going on here than I’m aware of and I won’t comment on these specific remarks and/or this situation as a whole in future.
That sure is a summary of what happened that is 100% accurate, unbiased, with no subtleties or nuances left out, and not at all exaggerating the scale of insult delivered to you. Definitely not, say, a spin doctoring job worthy of…well…tucker carlson.
Calling someone a walking victim complex is something Tucker would say, and there *are* problematic atheist behaviors that Joyce is currently representing in her holier-than-thou attitude. I’m not even sure how exactly you’re trying to argue either of those points.
But yes, please tell us how badly you have been injured by words about fictional people, as though these words have somehow reached into your life to cause the problems you are lamenting. I’m sure those words are all part of the grander societal conspiracy against the queer and disabled and not a reasonable response to someone that shitposts on comics that don’t even include the characters in question.
Idk I know I’m not in the comment section much so maybe it’s not my place but I feel like regardless of whether Spencer is in the wrong here, it’s kind of shitty to continue to compare them to Tucker Carlson when they’ve made it clear it’s pretty distressing. The comparison is not very apt anyway. The harm Tucker Carlson does goes beyond just spin doctoring or using the words “walking victim complex”. And the harm Tucker Carlson does is done to Spencer (among others obviously), so the insult is deeper. You can disagree with someone without using the things they just said hurt them against them.
Agreed with Fuzzy, you could point out that you don’t think this is unbiased without comparing someone to a huge piece of shit who is causing harm on a daily basis/
God fucking damn it, why does this kind of shit always have to be Everyone Else’s Problem™?
who are you and why are you complaining that this mostly fictional slightly autobiographical comic strip has to relate to you and your life experiences in a 400 word essay in the comments
im also disabled, I’m also queer, and I’m also hanging on by a thread to my scholarship, but literally none of this has to do with anything here
stop trying to turn this into a sociaital justice issue when it’s clear you just have a issue with the writer’s creative choices
stop poisoning our experience and go yell at a wall instead
Spencer, I agree with you on many things, and disagree on others. On this matter, IMO, I think you need to acquire some effing chill.
Hey! As a person who both frequently enjoys your contributions, and has avoided interacting with you at points because you are sometimes awful and even mean or a bully, can I say a couple of things?
1. when you find yourself at the point of trying to start a feud with a self-employed web cartoonist because you don’t see eye-to-eye with them on a point of characterization in their own work, this is a good moment to step back.
2. You are incredibly, grossly, unfairly overstating Willis’s impact on your life and your right and ability to express your feelings and your politics in your own life. This is another good pointer to step back from here.
I say this with truly gentle intentions: if you can’t talk to people in this forum that exists solely for people to talk about Dumbing of Age comics without it getting violently heated, or if you feel this degree of hurt or shamed or censured because you’ve been asked to tone down the aggression, this is a good moment to take a break from it.
Considering their last conversation, this is all rather civilised.
I’m so sorry about what happened to both of you, Spencer and JBento. That really sucks. 😢
Spencer, I’m a seriously addicted reader and an English professor, and I can tell you I have personally learned that it’s not always a good idea to meet/talk to authors/artists whose work you admire. I’ve met a number of contemporary authors and some of them are just wonderful people and some are…not. (Not naming any names here!) I personally feel like there is sometimes a huge disconnect between the creator as a person and their work. For example, the poet T. S. Eliot wrote some incredible, heart-wrenching, sensitive poetry (IMHO) but in real like he was a sexist, anti-Semite, and kind of a racist.
I think it’s up to each of us how we want to deal with approaching a work when the creator of that work is a butt. I haven’t stopped reading or teaching T. S. Eliot (he lived over a century ago, so while I do NOT give him a pass AT ALL, there is some important context for who and what he was), but I never for a second forget or let anyone forget he was kind of a horrible person. I jumped on the “Harry Potter” bandwagon late (I was in my 20s) but the books and the films meant a lot to me. Now that I know how terrible Rowling is as a person, I can’t read the books anymore or have anything to do with that fandom. I’m not going to BURN my copies of the books, or anything, but I just can’t feel the same way about them. I also used to refer to the “Harry Potter” books/films in class frequently when giving examples of how to set up an essay, or something, and I never do that now.
Sometimes I think that the “better part” of people comes out in their art even if they are personally kind of butts. But (ha ha!) sometimes not. If “Dumbing of Age” is important to you I hope, if you want, that you can still enjoy it separate from your terrible experience with is creator.
“the poet T. S. Eliot wrote some incredible, heart-wrenching, sensitive poetry (IMHO) but in real like he was a sexist, anti-Semite, and kind of a racist.” I mean, if he was an anti-Semite he wasn’t “kind of a racist”, he was a full-blown one.
Also, nothing has happened (or is going to happen) to me. I’m a straight dude, I’ll be dead of old age before the catholics go through enough of their targets that they get to me.
It’s gonna suck to be a woman if this thing gets through, though, what with family doctors discouraging women from having abortions or any sex at all, because if they have an abortion or test positive for an STD, the doctor’s pay gets cut.
Before you ask, yes, it’s just women, dudes can test positive for all the STDs they want, obviously. After all, dudes have a right to stick their dick into anyone they want (except another adult male; everything else, including either/or, is apparently cool with the catholics), but we got to keep tabs on them whores to make sure they keep their legs shut, amirite?
Point taken about Eliot. I’m personally not totally clear on the overlap/correct designation of Judiasm/being Jewish as a religion, race, and/or culture. My dissertation director advised me to refer to anti-Semitism and racism separately and I’ve been following her guidance since. Maybe I should switch to phrasing like “Eliot was a racist, including being prejudiced against Jewish people.” I initially said “kind of” a racist because, although he did not like Black people, his views on that were less severe than those against women and Jewish people.
I am a person with a functional uterus and I live in the US, so I can relate to your comment! I’m really scared about what is going to happen and what is ALREADY happening to people with uteruses here in the US. I have a severe blood-clotting disorder at least partially linked to hormone levels and take blood thinning medication that causes major birth defects, so I CANNOT get pregnant and, if I became pregnant accidentally, I would have to have an abortion in order to not DIE. I am a white woman in NYC with excellent health insurance, a savings account, a steady source of income, great doctors, and a family support system in New England. Whatever happens, because of my various types of privilege, *I* personally will be okay. But most people in the US may not be. I have friends who live in states where things are terrible and are going to get worse. My kind-of stepchild (long story) lives in Oklahoma and they can get pregnant. Oklahoma just basically banned all abortions and now is taking aim at birth control. They are, I think, trying to out-Texas Texas. Things are really scary all over right now. 😔
Uh. I was planning a post on how sorry I am about you folks having to go through this, but then you mentioned Texas and all of that flew out of my brain, because the topic of primary importance immediately became this:
If you (general you) have or have helped carry out an abortion (including driving people to the clinic), ANYWHERE, it is not safe for you to set foot in Texas. Their bounty law allows sueing for abortions taken place elsewhere.
Now that that’s out of the way, I’m sorry about what you lot have to go through (except the part of “you lot” that voted Republican, in which case haha, no, fuck you), both on the general law sense and in the case of your paticular condition.
D’oh! I was just finishing a long reply and my iPad decided to randomly freeze up. In short: the US is feeling pretty dystopian right now. Although I’ll be the first to admit that the US is NOT any kind of a paradise, for my whole life previously (I was born here) I felt that we were generally trying to improve and do better than our colonist, genocidal, racist, sexist, homophobic history. I don’t feel that way about the country as a whole anymore. I think that certain parts of the US and certain groups in it (Black Lives Matter, the many pro-choice and pro-reproductive rights grassoots movements, etc.) ARE worthwhile and praiseworthy. I think the country taken as a whole is a dumpster fire right now.
I am completely flummoxed about how some of these ridiculous laws in Texas and other places are going to be enforced. So you can be arrested/charged if you aid a person trying to get an abortion. What about the completely innocent gas station worker who pumped that person’s gas while they were on the way to Planned Parenthood? What if that pregnant person has morning sickness and can’t drive so they stop at Wal-Mart for some Pepto-Bismal. Do the store manager, the floor worker who helped them find the medicine, and the cashier who rang them up all get arrested because they aided someone on their way to an abortion? So all female-presenting people have to pee on a stick and submit an itinerary before they do LITERALLY ANYTHING? How in the WORLD would you find the money, personnel, and time to make that work?
Texas and some other states are also trying to criminalize miscarriages. According to the Mayo Clinic, about 20% of pregnancies end in micarriage, many so early that the person doesn’t even know they’re pregnant. (They may think they had an especially heavy period.) So all are people with periods now required to submit their used tampons/pads/other menstrual products for testing to make sure they didn’t spontaneously miscarry? And HOW would you enforce that? The mind boggles.
I feel like this all is insane (and I am sorry, but I LITERALLY mean insane as in “the people doing this are severely mentally unwell) in directions my mind can’t even point to. I apologize for referencing “The Handmaid’s Tale” (it’s a very white-feminist book that ignores the lived reality that people of colour have experienced and are still experiencing). My mom got it as a birthday present from a friend when I was about 12 or so and I read it too. She said it was one of the most terrifying things she ever read because there are people out there who want to bring about that world. I read it and found it horrifying but thought, “At least this can’t happen here.” (Book recommendation: “It Can’t Happen Here” by Sinclair Lewis)
I am Queer (pansexual) and my male partner is kind-of questioning and VERY much an ally (he works for a movie theater but wore a Trans flag lapel pin during the opening weekend of the new “Fantastic Beasts” movie, for example). We are both cis. I do NOT want to marry Partner; we’ve been together for a long time but I just don’t want to be married in general. Recently I asked him, if things got really terrible (like, for example, if people with vaginas were stripped of the right to have their own money, or unmarried people with vaginas couldn’t buy birth controls like condoms, or people with vaginas needed a husband’s consent for OB-GYN visits and procedures, for example) if he’d marry me. He said yes but didn’t think it would get to that point up where we live. I hope he’s right but I NEVER thought that in 2022, as a grown woman, I’d have to be strategizing about the best ways to protect myself, which might mean “hiding” behind a man. (My closest male relative is my father and, while I don’t hate him or anything, I do NOT want him making descisions about my life!)
And again, I know I am SUPER-privileged and that many, MANY other people in the country have it MUCH worse than I do now or ever will. 😭
I am presuming that the fear is part of the point. I mean, think about it: you live in NYC, where the general population would rather shake Trump’s neck than his hand, and YOU are already positing taking steps that you wouldn’t otherwise in case shit hits the fan.
Now imagine you’re a woman in Texas, where shit has ALREADY hit the fan. If women are too scared to have an abortion, does it matter that you have no way to enforce punishments for abortion?
Of course, I might be thinking too hard about this. I mean, how high do you think the burden of proof is going to be in these cases, judged in Texan courts?
OH MY GODDESS WE *HATE* TRUMP UP HERE! AND WE *TRIED* TO WARN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ABOUT HIM! WE TRIEEEEED!
You make an excellent point about fear and intimidation. Yeah, enforcing these kind of Orwellian rules on a large scale is probably untenable and impossible. BUT if you’re a pregnant person who’s already scared for perfectly legitimate reasons (not just the legal ones but also potentially societal, economic, and familial/interpersonal consequences as well), I can easily see how someone might think, “Yeah, they probably wouldn’t know if I drove to see a doctor who peforms abortions and that doctor visit is supposed to be confidential…but WHAT IF I’m the one who gets reported and targeted to as a public example?”
We also can’t forget about the racism coded into this. (In the US, pretty much every hateful -ism is interconnected and tangled together into a terrible pulsating Ball of Hate.) More Black people with vaginas die as a result of pregnancy than any other group. They also (pre this mess) still had less access to affordable abortions than any other group. Plus, Texas is home to a LOT of immigrants (I think primarily from Mexico but also from other places in Central and South America). Some of these immigrants are here on short-term, maybe expired, VISAs and others are undocumented. Immigrants in places like Texas have for a long time learned to be scared of and hide from ICE agents and raids. I could see how a pregnant undocumented immigrant would be VERY scared to call any possible attention to themselves by seeking an abortion.
Yup, this is America.
https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY
The term bigot works (I think racist and anti semite both apply to Eliot too, but my default is bigoted or prejudiced because it doesn’t matter why someone is discriminating, if they’re discriminating against someone based on any group another person fits into the term bigot applies).
I think muy last comment didn’t nest right but I was trying to say that Comic.phile had a good point.
@JBento: ” I’ll be dead of old age before the catholics go through enough of their targets that they get to me.”
I was going to say you underestimate how fast things will happen if the Repugnants get back control of the Senate … but the following long discussion makes it clear that it’s already happening.
My late wife (died in 2007) was of the opinion that we were witnessing the early stages of the Decline and Fall of the American Empire. I take no pleasure at all in observing that we are now in the middle stages. Ironically, this seems to have been triggered by (is a backlash to) the election of the first melanin-enhanced president. I remember being so energised and hopeful when that happened. [sigh]
Ah, but you see, I am the beneficiary of an amazing advantage in that respect: I’m neither from nor in the US.
(also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that the major brands of US christianity weren’t all that fond of those pope-worshipping catholics)
I’m not sure that’s an “if”. Things aren’t looking particularly good for Dems for the next election, what with Reps disenfrachising voters and Dems going above and beyond their usual nothing to doing super-savvy stuff like supporting anti-choice candidates in primaries when everybody’s talking about the overturning of RvW.
Sorry to hear about your wife. 🙁
I DO think it’s connected to Obama’s election, but not in the way I think you think. I don’t think it made the Republicans worse. I think it made the Reps act their true selves in such classy moves as “The Return of the N-Word” and “Black People and Comparisons to Monkeys”, and then the Dems did basically bupkiss about it and the Reps went “holy shit, we could’ve been acting like this ALL THE TIME with no repercussions?” and, as it turns out, they totally could.
Shit, one of the Jan 6th trash got out consequence-free because they claimed they thought the building they were storming was the White House. Dems are never going to give these people consequences, so they have no incentive to not hit barrel-bottom and then get some heavy machinery to keep digging.
It’s not so much that it made Republican politicians worse or that Democrats did “bupkiss”, but that it freaked out the white racist voter base. That enabled the Republican politicians who’d previously thought they had to stick with dog whistles. Of course, don’t ignore that the racism is bone deep in this country’s DNA or that there’s been a dedicated campaign since the Civil Rights movement to stoke the flame of that backlash. Wouldn’t neglect the effect of 9/11 either.
But it’s psychologically easier to pretend that it’s just Democrats being weak and that they could have easily stopped it.
Didn’t TS Elliott fuck his underaged niece or something, too? I might be thinking of a different author, but let’s not rule out the possibility.
I don’t…think so? At least not that I’ve ever read. Maybe you’re thinking of Edgar Allan Poe, who married his 14-year-old cousin. To be fair, until very recently cousins marrying was considered perfectly okay in the US. Marrying a 14-year-old as a grown man, less so.
There is a whole section of Eliot’s magnum opus “The Waste Land” (which I adore, BTW) that he wisely cut out of the final draft (with editing help from Ezra Pound who is WAY more problematic than Eliot, if you can believe it). It’s a long section about a woman named Fresca, an inferior, vain poet who dreams of “pleasant r@pes” and then wakes up to sit on the toilet and poop. A LOT. I am not making any of this up! Fresca was a thinly-disguised Nancy Cunard, a female modernist poet who Eliot despised. He accused her of plagiarizing “The Waste Land” with her long poem “Parallax” (note: I have read them both multiple times and she DID NOT). He destroyed her reputation and made her life in England so miserable that she became an ex-pat in France and never returned to England.
I own a book called “The Secret Lives of Great Authors” that include all this kind of little-known stuff about canonical authors: some of it very funny, some terrible, and some just weird. (For an example of the last one, google “James Joyce and farting” some time!)
” (For an example of the last one, google “James Joyce and farting” some time!)”
I have now done this. I’m not sure if I regret it, if I’m glad I did it, or what.
😜
I love that despite a very specific scenario being described, you can still say “I’m not sure, but here’s someone else who’s incredibly famous who did it.”
My sole interaction with one of my all-time favourite SF authors consisted of him dissing my taste in beer at a convention. Earlier that day he flat-out insulted a fellow panelist for no apparent reason.
Yeah, SF/horror authors especially can be a mixed bag. In the Before Times I was a panellist at StokerCon when Ramsey Campbell was the Guest of Honour. He was SUPER nice and friendly even though I was very OBVIOUSLY fangirling and squeeing all over him. (Hey, even as an English prof, I still sometimes fangirl with the best of them!) My entire impression of him that weekend was that he was really funny, very friendly, and just kind of chill in general; in other words, nothing like the protagonists of most of his work! I also have met Caitlin R. Kiernan a bunch of times (they’re wonderful), including talking to them again at that same StokerCon. They were visibly not feeling well (I didn’t detain them too long) but both they and their partner Spooky were really nice and Caitlin even took a little time to talk to be about their worries about publishing some of their most violent work at a time when violence was on the rise in the US and the responsibility of the author (and this was BEFORE 2020…).
By the same token, there were a few writers I REALLY wanted to talk to (I honestly don’t remember names) who basically just blew me off or just said “Fine, give me something to sign.” I didn’t actually *want* an autograph; I honestly wanted to talk to them! Horror/SF (speculative fiction) is one of my major fields of study and I wanted to talk about their work and the genre, but they were obviously much more interested in talking to people they already knew and/or avoiding the “little people.”
Honestly, sometimes when I discover a contemporary author I really love, I try *not* to find out too much about them because I don’t want to discover terrible things and then have to ask myself if I feel okay reading their work any more. (I used to really, REALLY like Warren Ellis…)
One of my regrets is that I only got up the nerve to go to SF conventions shortly after Iain (M) Banks passed away. He was a mainstay of UK conventions, and by all reports, he was really approachable and a lot of fun to talk to.
I personally would have loved to have met Ray Bradbury. He was supposed to be a pretty nice guy, especially to fans and scholars. I also regret never meeting Terry Pratchett. I’ve not yet met Neil Gaiman (I went to the stage show he and Amanda Palmer were doing pre-coronavirus but that didn’t include getting to meet them). Maybe one of these days…
I heard from a few people that Warren Ellis is gross now, mind if I ask what did he do?
I believe they are referring to this:
https://www.somanyofus.com/
Yes. Also, here is a first-person account from Dr. Nerdlove, who saw this happen in real time and fell for Ellis’ rhetoric and charisma for a long time: https://www.doctornerdlove.com/on-finding-out-your-heroes-are-monsters-or-detoxifying-comic-culture/
Authors are people and fans can be very demanding. They’ve got things they want to do at conventions too – like talk to friends they only get a chance to see at conventions or to authors they admire and haven’t had the change to meet before themselves – not to mention all the business/events and lack of sleep.
It’s cool you had the chance to talk to some, but you can’t really expect that from everyone you want to or blame them for having other priorities.
Oh, I don’t blame them! For example, Kiernan said they couldn’t talk more because they weren’t feeling well and I would NEVER impose. I am NOT one of those fans who (as per a story from Stephen King) follow writers into the bathroom and try to talk to them while they’re pooping and keep shoving books under the stall door for them to sign!
HOWEVER, I am also not a fan of rudeness or meanness. And although I was *definitely* fangirling, I was also a participant on two panels during the conference that involved scholarly discussions of the horror genre. I have taught and published works about horror/SF. After one of my panels (the one where I talked about Shirley Jackson, IIRC), a lot of people wanted to talk to me. I was pretty tired but I still took time to talk to everyone and wasn’t rude.
I’m aware that this response probably comes off as really pompous and narcissistic. I am sorry about that. I’m just trying to say that being rude and blowing people off isn’t very professional. I understand if someone is rude or overly demanding of an author/creator/etc. but if that same someone is politely trying to start a conversation or ask questions, at least that should merit a response like “I’m sorry but I just can’t talk right now” rather than being rude or insulting that person.
Good point.
perceiving yourself as a hussy for taking birth control when you aren’t having sex is like perceiving yourself as a reckless driver because you put your seatbelt on when you go out to do your errands (or whatever other perfectly normal stuff you do with your car)
It’s some crap people are force fed, for the longest time my mom told me to NOT tell people that I was on birth control (I got my period at 9 and it nearly killed me, so the medication was VERY NECESSERY) because I’d be perceived as a “hussy” for it because ONLY women having TONS of sex needed the protection.
It’s something the church had told her, and she only let me take the medication because the doctor told her I’d die of anemia otherwise.
So I don’t blame Joyce for having feelings about it ya know? It’s stuff she’s heard since she started menstrating I am sure.
…huh. So it really was just dysmenorrhea? The way it had been depicted, I’d kind of thought there was something more serious going on.
Uh, no considering Becky said something about “Every few months just one of Joyce’s Ovaries hates her” It’s probably PSOS, and even then all you can really do for it is B/C.
It’s not just bad cramps, she was feeling the pain in her back, and becoming pale so probably having a lot of blood loss.
What does PSOS stand for? I tried googling it, and all I get is two different operating systems.
Might be a typo for “Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS).”
Yeah, this is the right one, darn you typo GREMINS!
“Titivillus was a demon said to work on behalf of Belphegor, Lucifer or Satan to introduce errors into the work of scribes.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titivillus
I don’t think Darn you Titi” will have the same impact lmao
“I miswrote something because I got distracted by Tits” does sound very plausible, though, especially because we’re talking about a bunch of cloistered monks.
I DO wish people would stop conflating Satan and Lucifer, though.
“Oopse! Typos! My tits were distracting, sorry!”
We don’t know yet. It sounds like Joyce got a “here’s something to treat the symptoms for now, and a referral to go see s specialist to find and treat the root cause” from the GP.
I can see why Joyce wouldn’t like Dina. Dina comes off as holding negative an inherently negative view about Joyce. I don’t think it matters to Dina that Joyce has changed.
However, Dina not liking Joyce is understandable. Joyce was probably the most EMBARRASSING person on campus. It’s a miracle that Joyce has any friends. Sometimes niceness isn’t enough to get over being so regressive. Once she’s proven that she’s so wildly behind her peers in understanding I see why she stays there for good. She earned it. She shouldn’t have been so loud about her beliefs. Most conservatives are smart enough to realize when to not show off that part of themselves. She should’ve learned her lesson the first time and had her epiphanies privately. She will always need to make up for making people feel uncomfortable and perpetually bad ideas. She should be ashamed of her former beliefs and have to apologize. At this point someone needs to tell Joyce that she was being a burden. She need to kiss the feet of the people that helped her become more informed. They really didn’t have to and she didn’t deserve it inherently. Just because everything is new doesn’t excuse her ignorance. She had the internet she could’ve corrected herself. No one held my hand. They ignored me and didn’t hide their contempt for my regressive faith. And why should they? I don’t pity myself, it made me better. Now I can live my life making up for my mistakes and reap the benefits of not being a hateful donkey’s ass. Living in reality is it’s own reward.
That said to me, she already has apologized with her actions. Like her or not she stuck by Becky when it would’ve been easier to turn her away. She would’ve kept her community and family. She’s clearly no that person any more and Dina knows it. As in the wrong as Joyce was in the past, There needs to be an expiration date on morally condemning someone on past actions. Joyce isn’t an abuser or a person that inflicts cruelty for the sake of cruelty, she’s not beyond redemption.
I get why Dina doesn’t like her, but she is still her Girlfriend’s best friend. It wouldn’t kill her to at least acknowledge that Joyce has stuck with Becky through it all. If you want to be apart of someone’s life, it helps to at least try to understand the important people in their life. Joyce was there before Dina. Dina can’t keep treating Joyce as if her perspective doesn’t matter because “she didn’t have it worse.” She demonstrated that when she interrogated Joyce’s life. You don’t go up to people and immediately start crying about abuse you did not experience and start talking about a completely different person. Why should Joyce comfort Dina about her life? Maybe I would’ve comforted her in the past, but now I would tell Dina to kick rocks and get out. Dina could have waited to ask Becky about Becky’s life.
I understand that Dina has a harder time with people due to her disability. At a certain point it’s an explanation and can’t be used as an excuse. she is more than capable of navigating her own struggles and taking responsibility. It does her a disservice otherwise. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes and Dina deserve to be treated directly and on equal terms. She has feelings and can understand how they both could’ve acted better. Very few characters are past the point of no return. I can’t wait until she takes people to task for treating her fragile. Like honestly, Dina you go girl. You show up imperfectly and make people respect and see you as a full human being.
I think I have an idea why my comments get stuck in moderation constantly. Willis, I am so sorry for being an asshole and writing that deranged comment I can’t remember what I was on about but it doesn’t matter. It was inexcusable. I won’t try to comment here anymore. For what it’s worth, you’re a fantastic writer and I enjoy dumbing of age. I will be buying your books and maybe some merch when I can. It is that absolute bare minimum and I should’ve apologize years(?) ago. Again, I am so sorry. You have every right to dislike me.
Okay it was Comments plural. If I remember correctly. It was a few stupid comments just arguing over something not even really in the story. Okay I’m embarrassed and I wish I wrote it right the first time goodbye
If it helps, apparently the comment section’s moderation took has been on a bit of a hair trigger these past few days, woth daily regulars getting trapped in moderation hell.
Yup. A few of my comments got inexplicably caught in the spam filter recently. I thought maybe there was some new phrase added after that last jerk who got called out on Twitter was booted, or something like that.
I am very confused that my comments is up. I will say, there is a huge chance I just over thought it and the man just doesn’t care that much about a literal rando. If I was honest, I would admit that most people aren’t as sensitive as me. But I don’t know. I’m not even entirely sure what or who runs the comment section. I just try to read it.
The spam checker fussed up a few days ago, and there were hiccups for a while. Also, I don’t remember why I’m supposed to be mad at DeLurker.
Then I am definitely misremembering.
All this build up of people hoping for or expecting a Joyce freak out for various reasons is making me expect her to not freak out at all over any of it
That’s a pretty cold burn, Dina.
Dina is becoming surprisingly savy on social matters.
College is a good environment for her, apparently!