Yeah, even if you’re not neurodivergent, you could still suffer from exhaustion like that.
I feel so uneasy and nauseous when I see Becky mask, and feel so bad for her. Her ability to do that so easily says VOLUMES about what she’s been through. 😢
She won’t be able to rely on that kind of quick fix forever, and if she has nothing lined up to take it’s place, well, it’s not gonna be pretty, to say the least.
I mean, think about it. Dina is extremely good at not being noticed.
That must make her the most normal: perfect social camouflage. She can fit in so well she just becomes part of the scenery. And that’s when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side, from the other two Dinas you didn’t even know were th-
She’s a walking SEP Field. Especially since she hooked up with Becky, because that means that for everyone else, she’s definitely Someone Else’s Problem.
That’s still pretty impressive. A lot of the cast probably couldn’t do that. Off the top of my head only Carla and Ruth have lifted her and they’re both tall and fairly athletic.
Yeah that’s a good one. Amber/Amazi-girls power is a known quantity though. She ranks very high and easily has the most feats in the entire cast. Like it’s probably just Joe and Jacob above her for the boys. Arguably Sal maybe for the girls. Carla as well possibly.
Nah, Billie’s 135-140 at least. Sarah is taller and she’s not doing a complex lift–grabbing Billie around the arms or under the armpits and setting her arms while lifting with her knees could have her lift that weight easily.
What are the power rankings? I feel Dina, Amber, and Sal have to be the top three, but what of Walky? He has yet to be killed as Night Guy so he is either near-preternaturally lucky or he is tougher than he lets on.
To be clear power rankings are different from tier lists. For example Joe likely ranks higher than Amber in power but we’d all bet on Amber in a fight. Dina doesn’t seem very strong despite being a very capable ambush predator. Walky is an pretty vague quantity he doesn’t have many feats under him. He lifted very light and short Dorothy a few times and once overpowered Dina. That’s middling power at best.
Sarah is the tallest woman in the cast, I think? Taller than a lot of the men. Don’t know about weight or power, but that leverage has to count for something
Eh, I dunno. I think Dina’s pretty consistently been less than fond of Joyce. If nothing else, she probably has more animosity towards Joyce than towards anybody else in the cast (barring the likes of, say, Toedad).
Well, despite whatever conflicts they had, Dina still felt comfortable enough with their relationship to wake Joyce up to ask questions. And Joyce did invite Dina to her dorm party way back at the start of first term (and Dina accepted). Not exactly something you would see people do if there was any serious animosity between them.
Most of what has made Dina not like Joyce has happened SINCE that party, and a good chunk of it is Becky-related (although she’s certainly offended by Joyce’s scientific ignorance and Joyce’s religious fundamentalist dismissal of Dina’s beliefs in their own right).
Which, by the way, is part of what makes me inclined to feel yeah, Dina totally holds grudges, and has made me enjoy her less, because Joyce has completely walked away from her cult upbringing, moreso than Becky has; she stopped going to church and no longer believes in God; she’s struggling to disentangle herself from the nonsensical things she was taught about evolution…and Dina does not give a fuck, and this does not in any way affect her feelings about Joyce, because Dina doesn’t care about Joyce as a person. As far as Dina is concerned, Joyce’s only function in life is to provide insight into Becky via sharing stories about their background. There are some character conflicts like this that I can enjoy for their comedy value, but given that Joyce is never malicious, and doesn’t *intend* to offend people, and that she herself tends to forgiveness and would choose to have a better relationship with Dina if she could, it feels…too unbalanced for me, for it to be fun. Their recent interactions just leave a sour taste in my mouth.
And the thing with the 30-minute referral, not really anger but it’s really more that she’s frustrated with Joyce’s ignorance on the topic, but at the same time Dina understands that both Joyce and Becky have a lifetime of being thoroughly misinformed and indoctrinated in a sheltered upbringing. This is something that’s definitely different to Dina from the WILLFUL ignorance of characters like Mary and Billie.
Yeah, Dina was frustrated with the situation, and Joyce just happened to be “Exhibit A” of the problem she was up against. The tone implied by her dialogue made her dialogue come across more pointed than she probably intended it to.
She has a right to be angry.
Most people who knew Joyce didn’t see it until it was pointed out. For the public she mostly gets to choose whether her eccentricities are seen as part of autism.
Within a five minute conversation with Dina most people would say autistic.
Yet Dina has struggled for years and the doctors still failed to acknowledge her autism, while Joyce a doctor points it out to her without being asked.
I would like to point out the downside of Joyce’s autism not being obvious is she’s finding out about this now instead of years ago.
Not saying she doesn’t have a right to be angry. She does, and rightly so.
But a lot of comments seemed to think Dina was somehow blaming or guilting Joyce about it, which A. wouldn’t be cool and 2. didn’t reflect what was actually happening in the strip, once we got to see the next day.
Well let me tell you ’bout the way she looked,
the way she acted
the color of her hair,
Her voice was soft and cool,
her eyes were clear and bright,
But she’s not there!
(this comment led me to lookup who actually wrote that, since I correctly guessed it wasn’t Santana – turns out it was the Zombies. Not sure which version I like better, honestly!)
Open Invitation and Well Alright don’t get enough attention, either. (I like the live versions up on Prime Music better than the album versions, funny enough.)
Don’t know how to explain to Jennifer that not every social interaction *has* to have a level of falseness to it, just like, the ones with people you don’t know well. Like you gotta learn to just say “I’m fine thanks” to the cashier asks how you are, but then when you get home to your loved ones you can explain how your day *actually* went
i love people who believe that “Everyones just wearing as mask” and “nobody ever shows how they truly feel”
. Cause these people have the best shocked reaction when they meet a Genuinly nice ,happy and optimistic Person and cant look behind there masks cause there is none to look behind.
They try and try to come up with one theory after another how these people must be either lying to themselve or stuff like that, cause perish the thought that someone truly happy and helpful exist.
There whole worldview would be destroyed if they had accept that not everyone is miserable inside.
I always think that idea is interesting since I do put on masks for nearly all of my social interactions but have such a hard time understanding human reasoning that I often assume most people are relatively genuine to their actions.
Like, “I don’t know why someone does x but there must be something about them that led them to do it. Wish I knew what it was….”
I often forget that this is Indiana, and 99% of the cast was brought up in a less-than-ideal household. It’s not just Joyce. She was just in a fucking cult.
Well, Dina’s been studying socialization a lot more thoroughly since she started college. She might be able to give Joyce tips on things that she’s figured out that might come easily to the rest of their friend group.
I don’t think talking about socialization will help much. Dina’s seems to have a much harder time connecting with people and seems to get ‘overwhelmed’. I don’t think Joyce has that problem… she seems to have other issues (like respecting boundaries, as well as little things like food issues).
I do think Dina would be a good person for Joyce to talk to, but for other reasons.
Also, Joyce is not actually bad at socializing. Despite her weirdness and boundary problems, she have make friends with most of the cast. She doesn’t need help socializing, that is not the trouble she is having.
And you know, actually understand the social stuff and the feeling of ‘I don’t know what I am doing’. Being able to DO social stuff isn’t the same as it MAKING SENSE IN YOUR BRAIN when you are having a crisis over how much you know or don’t.
I have realised that I had a similar mental crisis to this when I was like 13 about friendship and I could not explain to other people what was wrong with me or why I was tripping over this suddenly.
some ppl are saying the characters are meaner now and maybe they are but a) theyve been through a lot together so i think it makes sense for them to be more generally open with each other, esp since most of its just them trying to be friendly in their own flawed fucked up ways and b) theyre also funnier to watch this way imo. TELL ME WHAT DINA KNOWS lol
It’s, uh, whatshername, puddinglady, Ruth’s superior. “I’m a figure of authority who doesn’t care about what’s ACTUALLY happening, provided I don’t hear about and it still looks like I’m doing my job” is prime normal, if by “normal” we mean “the norm”.
Fuck yeah!!! She doesn’t give a shit about “normal”, she knows what she likes and she loves it, she’s unapologetically herself, but at the same time is compassionate towards her friends, who accept her as the person she is, and is always willing to learn more about the world and the people in it, even when it gets confusing and frustrating.
When I think of Billie, I think of this vast undercurrent of terror, undergirding everything she does. Like a river rushing under a stone bridge. So loud it deafens you and the cool wind bounces off the river and makes your face red and chapped with cold. That’s what I think of as the terror and panic, the current upon which floats her desperate quest for success: popularity, sex, alcohol, coolness, acceptance, validation, worth.
I think underneath, she’s still that scared five-year-old girl whose father’s housekeeper sent her down alone to the bus stop, to wait all by herself on her first day of kindergarten. Too small even to climb up the bus steps. So frightened that nobody would like her that she made up a new name on the spot. Just to shield herself proactively against their rejection.
And she carried that shield of her invented name (her special naming pact with her first friend, David Walky) for the next 13 years, on into college.
…But taking up the mantle of “Jennifer” wasn’t a way to set down that heavy shield and start being herself. It was just one more layer of pretense.
“I’ve outgrown all that. I’m past all that now. It’s all just water under the bridge.”
We got to see some of that river of terror burst its banks during some of her interactions with Ruth. In particular, “I’m a crazy loose cannon with nothing to lose!” strikes me as the statement of someone trying to give themselves courage, in a really panicky way.
I think “Billie” was used to being used. I think she was used to being what other people see in her. Putting on a big shiny mirror so people could see their heart’s desire in her.
I think the important point here is that Joyce can think about her “robot girl” comment to Dina as like, bad, now, because Billie said something similar and Sarah kicked her out for it.
Also my favorite thing about Sarah is just how fricken loyal she is to Dina. It’s a friendship with good communication. Love that for them.
Yeah, but I don’t think Sarah would be too happy about the perception that she has any “friends”, just saying 😛
Still tho, good point, that “matrix” comment of Billie, yeah in this context definitely a dehumanizing insult, hopefully Joyce will learn why her “robot” comment was wrong.
But even if that’s cleared up and a step is taken in the right direction, that definitely won’t be the end of Dina’s frustration with Joyce’s ignorance of the topic.
Ok I did forget that Sarah was there for the robot comment, but Joyce didn’t back down and Sarah was conflicted. Sarah is not conflicted about Jennifer, so we really see Sarah’s feelings.
Also, it’s worth going back and revisiting because Joyce calls herself normal over and over again in that one. She and Jennifer are really only a day’s worth of maturity apart.
Just so we’re on the same page, just how are you using “maturity” in this context? Because I think that the very concept of “normal” affects kids and adults of all ages, but is nonetheless intrinsically toxic.
I mean that neither of them are very mature yet, Joyce only slightly better for having some self-awareness now. I agree with you re: normal, it’s a bad concept.
As for self-awareness as a part of maturity, at least as far as maturity has to do with age, I kinda disagree? I have had a lifetime’s worth of displeasure of meeting countless adults (not just college age, but like ADULT adults age 30+), who where blissfully devoid of just about any self-awareness, and induldged in their insecurities any chance they got, often at the expense of others including myself.
First panel Finally somebody said that
Second panel Fan is that you?
Third panel you just Danny up
Fourth panel Sarah now roleplaying prison guard. Visitation time? Joyce quick make with Billie that thing with hands on the Glass to imitate physical contact!
Jennifer:
“Whenever I see someone less fortunate than I
And let’s face it, who isn’t, less fortunate than I
My tender heart tends to start to bleed!
And when someone needs a makeover I simply have to take over
I know, I KNOW, exactly what they need”
What gets me is that, in her haste to take a shot at Dina for no damn reason, she forgot that one of the pieces of advice she literally just gave was “talk to someone autistic”
Sometimes I really like Jennifer, like in the first panel that was good advice, and then she says something like in the third panel and it is mean and tone deaf and I really do not know what to make of it.
I kind of missed the second speech bubble on the first panel and now that I read it, it turns my opinion on what she said.
I though she meant that social norms and rules are made up by society as a whole. They are a social construct and thus wildly vary from time to time and place to place. That when you get it in one place you could still be seen as kind of weird some where else.
What does YMMV mean?
But now I am more inclined to follow your reading.
Impressive how quickly they manage to take turns in being awful. Couple of strips back I wanted Joyce to kick Sarah out for being needlessly mean and controlling. Now I’m glad she’s there when Billifer overstayed her welcome with saying something stupid and out of touch.
Jennifer thinks Joyce needs someone with her strong social skills, and she’s still thinking of the problem in these terms. Whereas Sarah is saying Joyce should talk to someone with similar struggles.
I don’t think it’s like that. I think she’s kinda having a mental breakdown over Joyce posing her the question of whether she’s autistic and being unable to admit that no all this does not come to her naturally.
Some day Jennifer will figure out normal people don’t actually exist, and trying to be normal is like trying to punch yourself in the face until you grow a third eye – you can’t make it happen, it wouldn’t be good for you if it did happen, and the thing you’re doing to make it happen doesn’t even make sense to begin with, and you only hurt yourself, but it might impress other people in the punch-yourself-in-the-face-to-grow-a-third-eye club if they see how hard you’re trying.
I am hoping this will lead to Joyce saying she is sorry about the robot comment from earlier. While I honestly don’t think she meant it as an insult, or to do any harm, she still upset Dina and should apologize for it.
I don’t know, Dina/Joyce interactions rarely went well before, and none of the reasons that’s the case are actually gone for either one of them. They’ve never been friends, and Dina tolerates Joyce because Joyce us friends with people Dina actually likes.
I’m not sure that will change suddenly because Joyce might, pending actual diagnosis rather than panic over the possibility, have exactly one thing technically in common with Dina. And I’m not sure them interacting more on a specific subject which is very important to Dina, contains major pitfalls about which Joyce knows nothing, and about which Joyce can’t currently be rational is going to help their relationship either. Later, maybe! But not in this moment.
Im not commenting on todays strip but I wanted Mr Willis to know that the free streaming service pluto either has or going to have a 24/7 all transformers channel and it looks like just about all of them will be there including the original series ……
The original series is the least-enticing thing about Pluto! The original series has been free-to-stream, uploaded by Hasbro, on YouTube for about a year. Now, Transformers Animated and Beast Machines, that’s news.
I would like to see Joyce and Dina talking to each other more, not just because they’re both autistic, but also since Joyce is now an atheist and I think Dina could help her get rid of some of the old fundie ideas she might still have about things.
Loading ...
Sarah: “you don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here”
B/J: “WHAT DOES DINA KNOW”
Joyce: “…she DOES know Becky”
“Yeah, BIBLICALLY”
…!
“WAIT, SHIT”
in the spirit of everyone in the cast being autistic, if anyone knows what it’s like to be fatigued from constantly masking, it’s probably becky
Yeah, even if you’re not neurodivergent, you could still suffer from exhaustion like that.
I feel so uneasy and nauseous when I see Becky mask, and feel so bad for her. Her ability to do that so easily says VOLUMES about what she’s been through. 😢
She won’t be able to rely on that kind of quick fix forever, and if she has nothing lined up to take it’s place, well, it’s not gonna be pretty, to say the least.
So, what *is* the over-under on the entire cast being autistic?
I mean that’s definitely a thing that can accidentally happen if you start writing characters before knowing you’re autistic.
Aside from doylist reasons, considering the cast is “the cast” because they are an extended friendgroup, odds are pretty good.
I love this punchline. Thank you, Ana. <3
I’m gonna start calling her Billy Jean from now on…
She’s not my lover.
Billie Jen
*dang it hit the Flag AGAIN*
Ha, I approve 🙂
I mean, think about it. Dina is extremely good at not being noticed.
That must make her the most normal: perfect social camouflage. She can fit in so well she just becomes part of the scenery. And that’s when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side, from the other two Dinas you didn’t even know were th-
Okay, I may have lost the thread at some point.
It is even more effective than that, Doctor.
If I am not mistaken, Dina has achieved something on par that you call a Perception Filter. 😈
She’s a walking SEP Field. Especially since she hooked up with Becky, because that means that for everyone else, she’s definitely Someone Else’s Problem.
Yeah, that was definitely Billie.
Is is weird that I kind of imagine her voice changing, like when Oscar Isaac switches personalities in Moon Knight?
Billie’s got the body right now, and Jennifer is visible in the mirror facepalming.
What does Dina know? Does she know things? Let’s find out!
“I wanna say…Elijah Wood?”
created by jennifer d. salinger
She knows lots of dinosaur things.
Oh, Jennifer… you have redeeming qualities, but I would not wade through everything else to get there.
You know nothing Jennifer Billingsworth – A Murderous Redhead
The line between Billie and Jennifer is, as always, nonexistent
It only exists in the eyes of her bourgeois “friends” who she stands to benefit from if she can maintain the illusion that “Jennifer” is not Billie.
Considering Raidah’s especially willful ignorance on what Billie and other “dorkuses” like, this actually doesn’t take that much effort.
Thank you for using bourgeois instead of boujie.
“Bougie” is funny for me because I always think of the French word for candle, which makes me momentarily confused.
I wonder how strong Sarah is to lift Jen like that? This is officially a feat. It will effect the DoA power rankings.
I can’t imagine that Billie/Jennifer weighs that much. Somewhere between 100-120 maybe?
She’s 5ft7in and not super thin, so more than that.
That’s still pretty impressive. A lot of the cast probably couldn’t do that. Off the top of my head only Carla and Ruth have lifted her and they’re both tall and fairly athletic.
Ah, don’t forget:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/nerds/
Yeah that’s a good one. Amber/Amazi-girls power is a known quantity though. She ranks very high and easily has the most feats in the entire cast. Like it’s probably just Joe and Jacob above her for the boys. Arguably Sal maybe for the girls. Carla as well possibly.
Nah, Billie’s 135-140 at least. Sarah is taller and she’s not doing a complex lift–grabbing Billie around the arms or under the armpits and setting her arms while lifting with her knees could have her lift that weight easily.
yes, that’s not particularly difficult: I’m not athletio and used to lift a 250 lb friend while being 120 and smaller.
I figured that Jennifer would be around 160-170? She is pretty short, but muscle is heavy.
What are the power rankings? I feel Dina, Amber, and Sal have to be the top three, but what of Walky? He has yet to be killed as Night Guy so he is either near-preternaturally lucky or he is tougher than he lets on.
To be clear power rankings are different from tier lists. For example Joe likely ranks higher than Amber in power but we’d all bet on Amber in a fight. Dina doesn’t seem very strong despite being a very capable ambush predator. Walky is an pretty vague quantity he doesn’t have many feats under him. He lifted very light and short Dorothy a few times and once overpowered Dina. That’s middling power at best.
or he forgot Night Guy was a thing he was doing
Dina and walky can’t be in the top three, they’re too thin for that
Sarah is the tallest woman in the cast, I think? Taller than a lot of the men. Don’t know about weight or power, but that leverage has to count for something
Carla is mighty tall.
With or without skates though
It counts against her, I think. Lower center of gravity is the key.
well lifting above your shoulders level tend to be a bit more difficult…
Jennifer’s very carry-able.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/nerds/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/ragdoll/
Man a few strips after that first one:
Joyce – “Math is easy! You just have to follow the steps.”
“Did we ever see Billie? If she wasn’t here to turn in her notes, she’s so in trouble!”
“Maybe we just missed her.”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/steps/
What did Willis know and when did he know it…!?
I don’t think Dina wants to talk to Joyce at the moment. What with the whole 30 minute diagnosis and unresolved issues between them.
I don’t think that would be a problem. Dina doesn’t really hold petty grudges like that.
Eh, I dunno. I think Dina’s pretty consistently been less than fond of Joyce. If nothing else, she probably has more animosity towards Joyce than towards anybody else in the cast (barring the likes of, say, Toedad).
Well, despite whatever conflicts they had, Dina still felt comfortable enough with their relationship to wake Joyce up to ask questions. And Joyce did invite Dina to her dorm party way back at the start of first term (and Dina accepted). Not exactly something you would see people do if there was any serious animosity between them.
Plus she would do it for Becky’s friend that happens to not be interested in Becky.
Most of what has made Dina not like Joyce has happened SINCE that party, and a good chunk of it is Becky-related (although she’s certainly offended by Joyce’s scientific ignorance and Joyce’s religious fundamentalist dismissal of Dina’s beliefs in their own right).
Which, by the way, is part of what makes me inclined to feel yeah, Dina totally holds grudges, and has made me enjoy her less, because Joyce has completely walked away from her cult upbringing, moreso than Becky has; she stopped going to church and no longer believes in God; she’s struggling to disentangle herself from the nonsensical things she was taught about evolution…and Dina does not give a fuck, and this does not in any way affect her feelings about Joyce, because Dina doesn’t care about Joyce as a person. As far as Dina is concerned, Joyce’s only function in life is to provide insight into Becky via sharing stories about their background. There are some character conflicts like this that I can enjoy for their comedy value, but given that Joyce is never malicious, and doesn’t *intend* to offend people, and that she herself tends to forgiveness and would choose to have a better relationship with Dina if she could, it feels…too unbalanced for me, for it to be fun. Their recent interactions just leave a sour taste in my mouth.
Yeah, definitely not like her to hold grudges.
And the thing with the 30-minute referral, not really anger but it’s really more that she’s frustrated with Joyce’s ignorance on the topic, but at the same time Dina understands that both Joyce and Becky have a lifetime of being thoroughly misinformed and indoctrinated in a sheltered upbringing. This is something that’s definitely different to Dina from the WILLFUL ignorance of characters like Mary and Billie.
Yeah, Dina was frustrated with the situation, and Joyce just happened to be “Exhibit A” of the problem she was up against. The tone implied by her dialogue made her dialogue come across more pointed than she probably intended it to.
She has a right to be angry.
Most people who knew Joyce didn’t see it until it was pointed out. For the public she mostly gets to choose whether her eccentricities are seen as part of autism.
Within a five minute conversation with Dina most people would say autistic.
Yet Dina has struggled for years and the doctors still failed to acknowledge her autism, while Joyce a doctor points it out to her without being asked.
I would like to point out the downside of Joyce’s autism not being obvious is she’s finding out about this now instead of years ago.
Exactly what signs would be most evident in that conversation with Dina?
And just what signs in Joyce would she be able to repackage as eccentricities?
Not saying she doesn’t have a right to be angry. She does, and rightly so.
But a lot of comments seemed to think Dina was somehow blaming or guilting Joyce about it, which A. wouldn’t be cool and 2. didn’t reflect what was actually happening in the strip, once we got to see the next day.
I viewed that moreso as her venting rather than being frustrated towards Joyce.
Nobody told me about her–what could I do
Nobody told me about her–though they all knew…
It’s too late to say you’re sorry.
How would I know? Why should I care?
Please don’t bother trying to find her.
She’s not there.
Well let me tell you ’bout the way she looked,
the way she acted
the color of her hair,
Her voice was soft and cool,
her eyes were clear and bright,
But she’s not there!
(this comment led me to lookup who actually wrote that, since I correctly guessed it wasn’t Santana – turns out it was the Zombies. Not sure which version I like better, honestly!)
look up the muppet show version
Santana’s version ROCKS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxUJeY1Yik
Holy shit.
Everything Carlos Santana touches turns to gold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT1s96JIb0
A favorite! We need more Black Magic Women, ready to tear the walls on down.
Open Invitation and Well Alright don’t get enough attention, either. (I like the live versions up on Prime Music better than the album versions, funny enough.)
Gonna go listen to them right now!
This is one of my favorites. Santana’s guitar part is just… *chef’s kiss*: “Mwah!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLLlnttTWXk
I deeply appreciate the zylaphone (?) and scratch board thing, but the guitar solo feels a bit much sometimes and oh no I’m old 🙁
xylophone. wow that was some bad spelling.
Zylaphone is a perfectly cromulent word. 😉
omg this is my fave song.
Don’t know how to explain to Jennifer that not every social interaction *has* to have a level of falseness to it, just like, the ones with people you don’t know well. Like you gotta learn to just say “I’m fine thanks” to the cashier asks how you are, but then when you get home to your loved ones you can explain how your day *actually* went
i love people who believe that “Everyones just wearing as mask” and “nobody ever shows how they truly feel”
. Cause these people have the best shocked reaction when they meet a Genuinly nice ,happy and optimistic Person and cant look behind there masks cause there is none to look behind.
They try and try to come up with one theory after another how these people must be either lying to themselve or stuff like that, cause perish the thought that someone truly happy and helpful exist.
There whole worldview would be destroyed if they had accept that not everyone is miserable inside.
I always think that idea is interesting since I do put on masks for nearly all of my social interactions but have such a hard time understanding human reasoning that I often assume most people are relatively genuine to their actions.
Like, “I don’t know why someone does x but there must be something about them that led them to do it. Wish I knew what it was….”
More than you, apparently.
Billie Morebucks, alpha bongo
Impressive how bigoted Billie is.
Thankfully, Jennifer isn’t.
But yes, the bigotry shot out the moment Joyce pointed out that Jennifer might not be as cool or “normal” as she wants to be.
I often forget that this is Indiana, and 99% of the cast was brought up in a less-than-ideal household. It’s not just Joyce. She was just in a fucking cult.
Well, Dina’s been studying socialization a lot more thoroughly since she started college. She might be able to give Joyce tips on things that she’s figured out that might come easily to the rest of their friend group.
I don’t think talking about socialization will help much. Dina’s seems to have a much harder time connecting with people and seems to get ‘overwhelmed’. I don’t think Joyce has that problem… she seems to have other issues (like respecting boundaries, as well as little things like food issues).
I do think Dina would be a good person for Joyce to talk to, but for other reasons.
Also, Joyce is not actually bad at socializing. Despite her weirdness and boundary problems, she have make friends with most of the cast. She doesn’t need help socializing, that is not the trouble she is having.
But Dina could help Joyce to get past some of the weird and harmful misconceptions she has about autism.
↑This↑❗
And you know, actually understand the social stuff and the feeling of ‘I don’t know what I am doing’. Being able to DO social stuff isn’t the same as it MAKING SENSE IN YOUR BRAIN when you are having a crisis over how much you know or don’t.
I have realised that I had a similar mental crisis to this when I was like 13 about friendship and I could not explain to other people what was wrong with me or why I was tripping over this suddenly.
That’s what you get for insulting Sarah’s bestie
And I love how Sarah can bodily carry Jennifer from the room.
Sarah does not take insults to her bestie Dina lightly. Carrying B-Jennifer out of the room is no mean feat.
She’s just lucky there was no suplex on the end of that carry.
… yet.
Dina knows that behaving normally can be important, but should never get in the way of cereal and dinosaurs.
re “What did Dina know and when did she know it?” … you now owe royalties to the estate of Sen. Howard Baker Jr.
some ppl are saying the characters are meaner now and maybe they are but a) theyve been through a lot together so i think it makes sense for them to be more generally open with each other, esp since most of its just them trying to be friendly in their own flawed fucked up ways and b) theyre also funnier to watch this way imo. TELL ME WHAT DINA KNOWS lol
Please, we all know the most normal person in the cast is… Uh…
Probably Joe. Which…isn’t saying much.
Beef.
>grunt<
Eh, tha cat’s prob’ly fine
I was between Fuckface and Blowjob Cat, but then, neither really qualifies as a “person.”
Iguanas are people too, and I will nto stand by and watch this erasure take place.
Don’t forget Jocelyne’s cat!
And the cat that dropped in on Sarah at the birthday party.
Miss Sakaki!
oh hey an order of the stick reference
Sue. Or maybe Norville.
Fuckface 😛
Because the less data you have on a character, the less they are shown to deviate from the oh so apotheosized standard of “normal”.
It’s, uh, whatshername, puddinglady, Ruth’s superior. “I’m a figure of authority who doesn’t care about what’s ACTUALLY happening, provided I don’t hear about and it still looks like I’m doing my job” is prime normal, if by “normal” we mean “the norm”.
I do not know if talking to Dinah would be the best as both have a tendency of pushing each other buttons for the worse
That first thought bubble from Jennifer/Billie is solid advice.
Bottom of third panel, though? Nope. Dina’s pretty confident in her neurodivergence, and experts don’t need to be normal–
Actually, that’s kinda what experts are by definition, huh?
YES
YEET THE JENNIFER
Dina knows why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch!
Dina knows a lot, she just doesn’t abide by it
Fuck yeah!!! She doesn’t give a shit about “normal”, she knows what she likes and she loves it, she’s unapologetically herself, but at the same time is compassionate towards her friends, who accept her as the person she is, and is always willing to learn more about the world and the people in it, even when it gets confusing and frustrating.
↑This❗↑
billie is a piece of SHIT.
this turned out bad super fast
sarah keeps being right about people
Almost as if she’s had bad experiences with people that turned her misanthropic, right?
Okay, but she’s really really hot, soooo….
When I think of Billie, I think of this vast undercurrent of terror, undergirding everything she does. Like a river rushing under a stone bridge. So loud it deafens you and the cool wind bounces off the river and makes your face red and chapped with cold. That’s what I think of as the terror and panic, the current upon which floats her desperate quest for success: popularity, sex, alcohol, coolness, acceptance, validation, worth.
I think underneath, she’s still that scared five-year-old girl whose father’s housekeeper sent her down alone to the bus stop, to wait all by herself on her first day of kindergarten. Too small even to climb up the bus steps. So frightened that nobody would like her that she made up a new name on the spot. Just to shield herself proactively against their rejection.
And she carried that shield of her invented name (her special naming pact with her first friend, David Walky) for the next 13 years, on into college.
…But taking up the mantle of “Jennifer” wasn’t a way to set down that heavy shield and start being herself. It was just one more layer of pretense.
“I’ve outgrown all that. I’m past all that now. It’s all just water under the bridge.”
We got to see some of that river of terror burst its banks during some of her interactions with Ruth. In particular, “I’m a crazy loose cannon with nothing to lose!” strikes me as the statement of someone trying to give themselves courage, in a really panicky way.
Very true.
…My theory is that Ruth’s father was the drunk driver who killed her mother and himself in a car crash. That could go some way toward explaining her words about Amber, after Amber confronted her father in the dorm on Family Day: “I think I’m the right person to talk to her right now.” (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/far/)
It might also help give some background to her own alcoholism and her attraction toward the mouthy cheerleader who came to college fresh off a DUI arrest. Like a way to strike back against her maternal grandfather’s condemnation of her own father.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/disgrace/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/wretched/
I think “Billie” was used to being used. I think she was used to being what other people see in her. Putting on a big shiny mirror so people could see their heart’s desire in her.
Oh, that seems VERY possible based on those strips.
Yeah, that would explain a lot about Ruth.
Also, I think you are spot on in the comment above about Billie/Jennifer’s primary driving motivation being fear-based.
That… makes almost too much sense.
Solid advice in the first panel
Damn….
I think the important point here is that Joyce can think about her “robot girl” comment to Dina as like, bad, now, because Billie said something similar and Sarah kicked her out for it.
Also my favorite thing about Sarah is just how fricken loyal she is to Dina. It’s a friendship with good communication. Love that for them.
Yeah, but I don’t think Sarah would be too happy about the perception that she has any “friends”, just saying 😛
Still tho, good point, that “matrix” comment of Billie, yeah in this context definitely a dehumanizing insult, hopefully Joyce will learn why her “robot” comment was wrong.
But even if that’s cleared up and a step is taken in the right direction, that definitely won’t be the end of Dina’s frustration with Joyce’s ignorance of the topic.
Sarah likes having her friends, we saw Raidah ask about it. I think she’s just embarrassed.
Also, Dina does not have to forgive or like Joyce right away or even at all. My point’s like, hey, I hope Joyce uses this to be a kinder person!
I hope that of her too, but re: her understanding neurodivegence and interactions with Dina specifically, it’s gonna be quite a rough road ahead.
Ok I did forget that Sarah was there for the robot comment, but Joyce didn’t back down and Sarah was conflicted. Sarah is not conflicted about Jennifer, so we really see Sarah’s feelings.
Also, it’s worth going back and revisiting because Joyce calls herself normal over and over again in that one. She and Jennifer are really only a day’s worth of maturity apart.
Just so we’re on the same page, just how are you using “maturity” in this context? Because I think that the very concept of “normal” affects kids and adults of all ages, but is nonetheless intrinsically toxic.
I mean that neither of them are very mature yet, Joyce only slightly better for having some self-awareness now. I agree with you re: normal, it’s a bad concept.
Yeah totes good being on the same page re:normal.
As for self-awareness as a part of maturity, at least as far as maturity has to do with age, I kinda disagree? I have had a lifetime’s worth of displeasure of meeting countless adults (not just college age, but like ADULT adults age 30+), who where blissfully devoid of just about any self-awareness, and induldged in their insecurities any chance they got, often at the expense of others including myself.
Dina
What does she know?
Does she know things?
Let’s find out.
Sarah all about to demonstrate Ruth isn’t the only one with a suplex finishing move
🤣… ⁉️
First panel Finally somebody said that
Second panel Fan is that you?
Third panel you just Danny up
Fourth panel Sarah now roleplaying prison guard. Visitation time? Joyce quick make with Billie that thing with hands on the Glass to imitate physical contact!
I really want Joyce to find a girlfriend and drink cheap instant coffee together and talk about their differentbrains.
Jennifer:
“Whenever I see someone less fortunate than I
And let’s face it, who isn’t, less fortunate than I
My tender heart tends to start to bleed!
And when someone needs a makeover I simply have to take over
I know, I KNOW, exactly what they need”
What gets me is that, in her haste to take a shot at Dina for no damn reason, she forgot that one of the pieces of advice she literally just gave was “talk to someone autistic”
Hey wait a minute, yeah.
This gal’s a bit of a space cadet.
It’s because she’s not actually talking to Joyce. She’s just saying things to inflate her own ego. She doesn’t actually mean any of what she says.
I doubt she’s made the connection to Dina being autistic. I don’t know how much she’s really interacted with Dina.
She knows enough to not put her in her “normal” category and thus in the “weirdo” one just after using “weirdo” for neurodivergent.
Sometimes I really like Jennifer, like in the first panel that was good advice, and then she says something like in the third panel and it is mean and tone deaf and I really do not know what to make of it.
See, I read the first panel as one of those things neurotypicals say when they Just Aren’t Getting It, but YMMV.
I kind of missed the second speech bubble on the first panel and now that I read it, it turns my opinion on what she said.
I though she meant that social norms and rules are made up by society as a whole. They are a social construct and thus wildly vary from time to time and place to place. That when you get it in one place you could still be seen as kind of weird some where else.
What does YMMV mean?
But now I am more inclined to follow your reading.
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. It’s a turn of phrase that essentially means “it may differ from person to person”.
Thank you.
Jennifer is great whenever she’s not inserting herself into the situation.
Yes, she is autistic.
No, she doesn’t find it easy to do “normal”.
No, she cannot just admit it without a concurrent mental breakdown.
Yes, she would very much like to know what Dina knows.
Impressive how quickly they manage to take turns in being awful. Couple of strips back I wanted Joyce to kick Sarah out for being needlessly mean and controlling. Now I’m glad she’s there when Billifer overstayed her welcome with saying something stupid and out of touch.
I do enjoy the way Sarah never tolerates people talking badly about Dina.
Also, she shut it down without punching anyone this time!
Willis had lost a chance to name Billie as Bully.
It must already been told, but I’m specialist in bad jokes.
A certified specialist nonetheless. Certified by me! 😛
I do like how confused and panicked Billie is in the last panel. Like she genuinely is stunned by this information and NEEDS to know what Dina knows
I believe she’s stunned, but also that she is shocked that they don’t agree with her that Dina is a fucking moron.
Jennifer thinks Joyce needs someone with her strong social skills, and she’s still thinking of the problem in these terms. Whereas Sarah is saying Joyce should talk to someone with similar struggles.
I don’t think it’s like that. I think she’s kinda having a mental breakdown over Joyce posing her the question of whether she’s autistic and being unable to admit that no all this does not come to her naturally.
Seconded. Kit Fisto.
“Weird,” and, “stupid,” are two different concepts.
#DinaKnows
-Facepalm- you did NOT just say that
Sarah is a great bouncer! Thank you Sarah, you deserve a payrise.
Some day Jennifer will figure out normal people don’t actually exist, and trying to be normal is like trying to punch yourself in the face until you grow a third eye – you can’t make it happen, it wouldn’t be good for you if it did happen, and the thing you’re doing to make it happen doesn’t even make sense to begin with, and you only hurt yourself, but it might impress other people in the punch-yourself-in-the-face-to-grow-a-third-eye club if they see how hard you’re trying.
But it is not this day.
Seeing Joyce’s expression seems she was finally able to understand how bas she was with Dina in the morning. Or, at least, it’s what I’m hoping for.
I am hoping this will lead to Joyce saying she is sorry about the robot comment from earlier. While I honestly don’t think she meant it as an insult, or to do any harm, she still upset Dina and should apologize for it.
I’d like that but honestly Joyce has probably forgotten with everything that’s been going on.
I don’t know, Dina/Joyce interactions rarely went well before, and none of the reasons that’s the case are actually gone for either one of them. They’ve never been friends, and Dina tolerates Joyce because Joyce us friends with people Dina actually likes.
I’m not sure that will change suddenly because Joyce might, pending actual diagnosis rather than panic over the possibility, have exactly one thing technically in common with Dina. And I’m not sure them interacting more on a specific subject which is very important to Dina, contains major pitfalls about which Joyce knows nothing, and about which Joyce can’t currently be rational is going to help their relationship either. Later, maybe! But not in this moment.
at the very least, it may lead Joyce to approach Dina and as something other an antagonist.
Maybe all Joyce wants to hear is that she’s not autistic and maybe Dina is willing to say it.
Well Joyce recently renounced her fundie upbringing and believes in science now, so Dina might be able to fill in some educational gaps.
Im not commenting on todays strip but I wanted Mr Willis to know that the free streaming service pluto either has or going to have a 24/7 all transformers channel and it looks like just about all of them will be there including the original series ……
Okay paid ad
The original series is the least-enticing thing about Pluto! The original series has been free-to-stream, uploaded by Hasbro, on YouTube for about a year. Now, Transformers Animated and Beast Machines, that’s news.
I would like to see Joyce and Dina talking to each other more, not just because they’re both autistic, but also since Joyce is now an atheist and I think Dina could help her get rid of some of the old fundie ideas she might still have about things.
I would really like to see that conversation.
Yes. And in general, there’s a lot to learn from Dina. I’d love to see Joyce get more input from Dina.
she may be going by a different name but jennifer is still the same person LOL
whoops dont know why that did that as a reply. my bad !
“Tell me what Dina knows!”
XD
Soooo I’ve been AFK for the longest time and I KNOW I should be commenting on the strip but afkdsj thank you Sarah. Seriously. And unrelatedly, uhm.
Hoping this isn’t a bother to y’all, I threw together an instructive in English and Spanish for DIY use of Misoprostol. It’d mean a lot if you spread it? It’s clean of metadata and I made accessible versions for low-vision readers. So, as safe as it can be.
(SERIOUSLY THO THANK YOU SARAH, Jennifer hadn’t fucked up that hardcore in a while innit.)
… dang I guess it’s just my luck that the gravatar roulette put a Jennifer face to this comment, sldkfj I laughed at least