DUMBING OF AGE BOOK 11 KICKSTARTER UPDATE
We made it to $50K! The AMBER magnet tier is unlocked! What do you do when you’re out of evil dads to punch? You grow your hair out and doomscroll, duh.
You can pledge for her magnet (plus a signed/doodled book) at her own tier, or choose her for your roster of magnets at the PICK THREE or PICK FIVE MAGNETS tiers! And if you’re going all-in for the COMPLETE MAGNET POWER tier, consider her added to your pile!
The next stretch goal is JOE MAGNET at $55k! Plus: one more surprise magnet.
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“Solving what? Haven’t you heard of INTELLIGENT DESI–”
*gets lynched by every uterus-haver*
I’m pretty sure menstrual pain is one of the biggest arguments for stupid design.
Either humanity evolved into it, or god is very, very bad at it.
Or God’s a sadist. It would explain so much.
Oh, no. No. No. God is punishing women for Eve eating the fruit from the tree of good and evil. Which, being all knowing, He knew Eve would eat, so He set her up to fail so he could cause women extreme pain and… and… umm…
Yeah. God is a sick, sadistic creep.
Yeah there’s no way you can work around that that doesn’t have God coming of as a misogynist creep without drastically changing God’s parameters about all-knowing, or loving. One or both has to go, he either didn’t know, or he’s not a loving God, probably both. Given that he destroyed everyone and everything because people exercised free will in a way he didn’t like, and destroyed 2 towns for the same thing, not doing things the way he wanted them to (Sodom and Gomorra), I’ma put the smart money on He’s a prick, or doesn’t exist.
The way around that is to add the parameter that God wants to be loved by his creations, and believes in free will to be important above all other concepts – because love can not be love if it is forced or coerced.
This is strongly supported by the story of Adam & Eve being all about that concept, that in order for good and love to exist, there must first be the possibility of making wrong decisions – betrayal in that instance, but generalized & implied the same for evil, hatred, etc. Very Pandora’s box.
With that doctrine, a force can be both all-knowing and all-loving, and have made the decision to not be all-correcting.
Although it is kind of funny to mention Sodom and Gomorra while complaining that God doesn’t intervene enough – when that was a clear instance of intervention for compassion. The cities were razed to the ground for hurting people. Fire and brimstone preachers like to make a lot of implications, but contextually in the passage the issues were pretty clearly about stopping rape, violence, and abuse (not the gays).
I still totally believe that God is a prick and he’s got a nasty sense of ironic humor, but that’s a separate issue entirely.
(And I also don’t ascribe to any weird belief that painful menstrual cycles are some sort of divine punishment – like other ailments, extremely painful cycles are NOT normal, and we have modern medicine that can help with that. As I’m sure Jennifer is about to expound on, lol)
That really doesn’t square with the idea that this is pre-knowledge of good and evil. If nobody has any understanding of even the CONCEPT of betrayal, then saying it’s a possibility that God is justified being angry at seems bizarre. Again, that reads more like a set up if he’s supposed to be an omniscient and, ostensibly, omnibenevolent being.
There’s also the bit where he absolutely does lie to his creation, while the ‘evil’ serpent tells them the truth. While I get that there can be differing interpretations (ie, S&G being about rape and more broadly, inhospitality–a big, BIG deal in heavily nomadic desert societies–than about homosexuality), at some point, you have bald-faced text that makes it quite clear that IF this actually is the truth about God, then God is a fucking monster. (Start with the 10th Plague, which ostensibly slew tens of thousands of people, many of them young children, the vast majority of whom had nothing to do with Pharaoh’s decision to enslave the Jews. Then consider the implications of Noah’s Flood, and the number of infants drowned around the planet.) Of course, since I don’t believe God exists, nor that the Bible is anything more than a mishmosh of parable, transcribed oral history, mythmaking, and the occasional bit of social engineering, finishing up with a bunch of letters detailing the political infighting of the early church, I don’t see any reason to actually be concerned about those deaths that really didn’t happen.
It’s not a wonder that this God, it’s stories and values, altogether a monument to ancient absolutism, could have only “survived” (or rather CHEATED) the test of time through use of dishonest tactics — centuries worth of marginalization of and violence against innocent people, against outspoken critics of this repugnant system, indoctrination of children unable to defend themselves, censorship of conflicting material.
This history stained by the blood of the innocent, all this UGLINESS, that which grade school history textbooks work so hard to oh so elegantly side-step.
Care to guess why?
If you’ve never read through the Apocryphon of John, I highly recommend it, as it’s fascinating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocryphon_of_John
It’s too bad that what became the “mainstream” Christian Church was so good at murdering its rivals, because the Gnostic conception of the “God” who created the physical realm is so much more interesting that the usual one—and proves that even way back in the 1st century, people were bothered by the twisted shit that he does in those old stories.
Of course a lot of those ideas, since they painted the god of the Old Testament as an evil God, were even more anti-Semitic than mainstream Christianity was.
I don’t think it’s really anti-Semitic to state that a god that is regularly depicted as commanding murders and genocides is evil. I mean, that’s just right there, in the text.
“Jews really worship the devil” is pretty damn anti-Semitic.
I think that’s the misnomer – to jump from omnipresent and loving to omnibenevolence. I wouldn’t say that the Holy Spirit is benevolent – and I don’t think it’s supported by the text.
The broad strokes of it is a decision to let people make their own mistakes and learn from them. To be all-knowing would be to make that decision while knowing that it will result in betrayal, and hurt, and terrible things, and to let it happen anyways. That isn’t benevolence.
To me, at least, it’s a picture of a God who is constantly grief-stricken and deeply frustrated at all of humanities terrible decisions, and simultaneously finds joy in where love and support still flourish.
I’m happy to explain my personal belief system, but I don’t defend the history or the present of the church – as I have a personal belief that institutionalized religion is inevitably evil. As a queer person, I recognize that religion is a tool of trauma in most queer people’s lives.
I have the privilege of a life where religion and spirituality were taught as a deeply personal quest to be considered with context (historical, linguistic, literature, etc) while deeply questioning any figure of authority that can’t back up or explain their reasoning. It was never presented to me as a form of indoctrination. That isn’t the average fundie upbringing, and so despite a cultural touchstone with Joyce and Becky about churches with hanging crosses and guitar riffs, I have my mother’s voice sending a different core message: “If what they’re teaching hurts people, they are wrong, and we leave.”
I find myself hoping that Dumbing of Age does end up with both possible end games – Joyce obviously finding that she’s happiest and her best self with atheism, and Becky still finding a strength in religion that helps her without hurting herself or others.
I’ll be a bit disappointed if the end game is just a wide swath of “religion hurts everything it touches” without more nuance to it, but it’s Willis’ world, much of it is autobiographical, and I totally understand and accept it as a valid narrative if that’s where this goes.
God could have made beings that had both free will and who would never suffer if he really wanted to. He could have just made an exact copy of himself.
And this god who wants to receive free, uncoerced love then threatens a punishment of eternal hellfire for anyone who doesn’t love him. … yeeeeaah, I don’t think the free will argument actually salvages this.
With their own threats of eternal damnation,
The gods huff and puff,
And blow their own house down!
🔥🔥 😈😈 🔥🔥
No seriously Reltzik, your ADHDemon Powers are showing here, and I LOVE IT!!!! 😍🧠🌩️
You humans saying stuff like this always makes me smile. 😈
I mean really: “The only rule is that you can’t eat the apple.”
If he created us, then he knew darn well that he might as well have left a premade pie crust and an oven preheated to 350 degrees Fahrenheit next to the tree.
No, no, see, menstrual pain isn’t an argument against intelligent design because it’s totally like, God’s punishment for one woman 6000 years ago doing a thing, and also conveniently enough an argument against letting women do anything because it leads men astray, and this is totally the legit truth of god and not an obvious rule patch
/s
There is no way that anyone will ever convince me that Carol did not espouse this belief. I don’t know about the rest of Joyce’s family’s church, though I suspect they skew heavily toward that concept, but Carol? Definitely. 100%.
Would Joyce have discussed menstruation with the rest of her family? Given that a grown male politician and apparently many other men believe that women use tampons for sexual pleasure/out of laziness coz they could hold the blood in and choose not to? Even in non-fundie communities, periods can be regarded as gross and embarrassing – it’s why the tampon/sanitary towel ads use blue liquids (can’t make it look anything like blood)…
Gods a guy, why would he care?
Pretty sure the whole point of menstrual pain is to prepare you for the MUCH greater pain of childbirth. Dudes couldn’t handle that agony ’cause they’ve never had that prep time.
And my god, my gravatar…
Yeah no with that and every other bullshit thing about how AFAB reproductive organs function I’ve always said, this is the only thing that could convince me god is real and he hates women. Because AFAB reproductive organs feel intelligently designed for maximum suffering
“And don’t tell me God works in mysterious ways,” Yossarian continued, hurtling on over her objection. “There’s nothing so mysterious about it. He’s not working at all. He’s playing. Or else, He’s forgotten all about us. That’s the kind of God you people talk about – a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a supreme being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatological mind of His when he robbed old people of their power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?”
“Pain?” Lieutenant Schiesskopf’s wife pounced upon the word victoriously. “Pain is a useful symptom. Pain is a warning to us about bodily dangers.”
“And who created the dangers?” Yossarian demanded, He laughed caustically. “Oh, He was really being charitable to us when He gave us pain! Why couldn’t He have used a doorbell instead to notify us, or one of His celestial choirs? Or a system of blue-and-red neon tubes right in the middle of each person’s forehead? Any jukebox manufacturer worth his salt could have done that. Why couldn’t He?”
“People would certainly look silly walking around with red neon tubes in the middle of their foreheads.”
“They certainly look beautiful now writhing in agony or stupified with morphine, don’t they? What a colossal, immortal blunderer! When you consider the opportunity and power he had to really do a job, and then look at the stupid ugly little mess He made of it instead, His sheer incompetence is almost staggering. It’s obvious. He never met a payroll. Why, no self-respecting businessman would hire a bungler like Him as even a shipping clerk!”
Even if we were born with full working knowledge of our health bar or whatever it wouldn’t motivate us to not do the thing the way pain does.
The real issue is cronic stuff
OOOHH!!!! Joyce must be in AGONY!!! 😫😫😫
I actually might just agree with Jennifer on this one. Whatever’s going on here is likely much more than ordinary menstrual pain, and DEFINITELY demands a doctor!
Does Jennifer actually mean that here? I dunno, but it’s a good idea anyway.
“Ordinary” menstrual pain can be debilitating. Can make you make life-altering decisions while catastrophizing. It can be hell, even when it’s “ordinary”.
Very much so. Joyce should definitely see a doctor about it though, guess my reference point is kinda scewed on account of my host body basically hating me in the most RANDOM of ways 😵💫
My guess is that she’s going to suggest using birth control to make the cycle stop. Which likely isn’t going to go over well, considering it’s Joyce.
No, this calls for Carla to come and to Carla at Joyce until the pain from Carla makes her forget about her other problem.
“Betty and Bina or whatever their name are had sex and they didn’t want you to know because they’re ashamed that they didn’t have sex with Carla as that would have been much better since anything without Carla is lame by definition by the way have I reminded you I am a shameless narcissist today”
is Carla even interested in sex? kinda thought she was ace
(although I can imagine she’d just show up in the background with popcorn or something)
Hey a/snow/mous/e!!!!
Sorry if this is a bit out of place, (I’m not the best at reading social cues 😅), but would you like to help out a neurodivergent in need?
The neurodivergent in question is me. The need is occupation. And possibly friendship. Just shoot your discord, and I’ll also show you a cool project I’m working on that has DOA and dinosaurs!!! 🦖🦕🌈 😁
Agree. A week like that isn’t normal in any way. Before surgery I had quite severe endometriosis (worst affected 1% according to a specialist) and while I was in more pain than Joyce at the end, it didn’t last an entire week. I really hope she goes to the doctor and that doctors listens and helps!
Fuckin’ FINALLY
Jennifer’s trying to act like a big tough grownup, sure, but here’s a handy thing big tough grownus sometimes have: self-actualization
(Emphasis “sometimes”)
This isn’t even self-actualization, it’s recognition that something is wrong and that something should be done.
I may be wrong but I’ve always understood self-actualization to include “recognizing someone else is having a problem and being capable of the decision to intervene, rather than keep managing symptoms” as a subset.
Seems like all the others are just hoping Joyce will weather the storm because they don’t know what to do to help. I’ve seen people be paralyzed like that over someone else’s pretty obvious problem with a pretty obvious solution.
Then again maybe there’s more going on here and Jennifer is rushing to judgment too quickly. Or maybe they’re all like “well she kinda deserves this pain for not being polite about her deconversion” in which case the judgment is deserved. But I both doubt that and hope against it.
I think it’s very possible to be able to recognize a potential medical problem without being a self-actualized person.
I would hope. I understand recognizing medical problems as being much further down Maslow’s pyramid than self-actualization, more in the “physiological needs/safety” category. And for recognizing others’ health issues, maybe the “love/belonging” category.
However, the physiological needs category usually applies more to immediate needs like food and water. It might take the level of self-esteem to actually value yourself enough to go to a doctor.
Also I know Maslow’s pyramid isn’t a perfect model.
Anybody taking bets that this leads to Joyce getting birth-control pills? (Actually prescribed for some forms of menstrual pain).
Yes, god, fuck, especially after Dorothy spent so much fucking time hammering her about getting glasses? Mild myopia has a much smaller percentage chance of killing you.
And I don’t think that’s the right word but “hey I AM the adult in the room, I can act to change things” is definitely a thing that takes time to comprehend.
So, I did this thing I do when I don’t understand a word in a comic, I looked at a wiki (with the end of Shortpacked! I tend to visit less and less TF wiki I don’t know why). Then a dictionary. I still don’t understand what this word means. Y’know, it’s like one of this kantian concept that to get you must beforehand get other words as they are defined by kantian concepts.
So before my head ache worsens, can someone explain in “simple english” what this means?
What “this” is it you want explained?
Since you didn’t specify, and assuming English is not your first language, I’m going to explain the words I think are the most likely to be causing this confusion. This is not intended as condescension, so if I guess the wrong words, understand that I’m coming from a place of wanting to help and not wanting to mock you by choosing seemingly simple words:
“HRGHL” – Not a word. Meant to represent a kind of grumbling sound. See Also: Onomatopoeia.
“Tops” – At maximum. No more than. As in, this is the top end of my guess. See Also: Max.
Everything else I feel like a dictionary would have helped with so, if I’m wrong, let me know which word! <3
‘Self actualization” is probably the term they need defined. According Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, it’s a desirable thing that is only achieved once your other needs are met. I don’t know much beyond that.
Head Cheerleader. Problem Solver.
Haha! I was shouting this! Now this is the Billie I know and sort of respect.
In her own words, she does smart things the dumb way and dumb things the smart way.
It will be interesting to see how this shakes out…
Yep. Billie’s back. What will happen now to poor Jennifer?
More importantly, what will happen to poor Mike?
Joe will take care of him now. He promised his stepsister.
Decomposition.
That’s what I was thinking. Nobody is trying to solve this because that’s what Billie saw as her role, and they ceded the space to her.
Solve for J
Where J=B
At least Joyce wore appropriate foot wear.
Wait. Why doesn’t Dina have a backpack? How will she take notes?
She keeps it behind the door.
In her brain. That’s how I took notes in high school because my disabilities meant trying to take actual notes meant none of the information made it into my brain OR onto the paper.
In college I was actually assigned a note taker because they paid attention to the fact that I had disabilities interfering with note taking.
She could also be audio recording with a phone in her pocket. I know that used to be a thing, recording the lecture to listen to later.
Most of the time these days, the professor has all the info and sources on a powerpoint slide or something similar anyway.
I didn’t take notes at university, either. Making a hand-written textbook seemed like a waste of the opportunity to listen.
So when I was doing remedial coaching (which is how I paid my way after freshman year) I urged my students to give up taking notes too. Bought them all up from “fail” to “distinction”.
Lectures were invented before the printing press. We don’t need to take down our textbooks by dictation any more.
Actually I remember reading somewhere that the brain stores information better when a person actually writes something down (as opposed to just reading or listening.) Something about the way it engages different parts of the brain.
And it should also be noted that relying on textbooks or powerpoint slides is not always a good idea. Some textbooks are poorly chosen, or the course content contains material not covered in the text. And powerpoint slides are often summaries, with the professor expanding on information during the lecture. (When I was a college professor, that’s how I did my slides.) If you don’t write stuff down, you might forget.)
I tended to go with the “annotate print-outs of the slides” approach but one of my colleagues has a magical pen that records audio and when you hover it over your notes it plays back what was being said while you made them, and as my brain naturally prefers the “doodle while listening because I can’t write and process what’s being said next” approach that sounds like a complete game-changer to me!
I’m not up on the latest research, but my impression is that the best way of learning is to use the knowledge as you go, e.g. by working the problems.
In my experience yes.
But everyone is different.
Everyone’s brain works differently. For me, what worked was writing a word salad that was just enough to make me remember short term, followed by a review shortly after where the points worth remembering were rendered into complete sentences.
It also makes a difference between those classes like mathematics where ideas and understanding were key and those subjects like history where facts and a few organizing principles were key.
It strongly depends of personal cognitive functioning. I would advise against all kind of “general” conception of how brain work.
For example, by teaching a colleague how to properly write down things she had to learn, I made her realize that she could reappropriate herself concepts rather than parroting, what she would otherwise do, and she got much better at learning, while not improving significantly her grades. It’s of course easier if you have a single person to focus on how they learn…
Also powerpoints are 99% of time leading me to deep sleep.
Also I got fired from a job for not making pretty enough powerpoints (never got any complaint about what was in it, but damn, what did I got for not putting pretty pictures and comic sans MS!).
I like the idea of a boss who appreciates Comic Sans, but I am terrified of the idea of a boss who enforces Comic Sans.
“I would advise against all kind of ‘general’ conception of how brains work.”
^^
this!
If I don’t take notes during a lecture, it’s easy for me to lose focus (maybe because of my ADHD). Plus, even if the notes aren’t the best, they serve as sort of a memory trigger, so that I can look at them and remember some of what was said.
But I know not everyone learns well by taking notes. For some people it could be the exact opposite – it could wreck their concentration.
In a previous degree, I got a bit of money one term ($75) for taking notes for another student with a physical disability. It prompted me to pay attention AND focus on what would be helpful to the other person, which maybe helped me in getting tutoring jobs later on.
VERY MUCH this!!!!! 🤩
Thanks for sharing EOI!!!
BTW would you like to get in on a cool project I’m working on? It’s got Dinosaurs and puzzles in it! Just shoot your Discord handle to join in the fun!!!!
🦖🦕🌈🧠🌌
*plays “Your Own Personal Universe” by Cliff Martinez on hacked muzak*
What do you picture note-taking as being?
Many poor students try to copy down everything. However, what works to cement the information in your head is to actively engage with the information as you put it down, sorting it and only putting down the highlights.
X!
FANTASTIC!!!!! 🤩
BTW what do you honestly think of my music suggestions? Just curious.
*Always Sunny theme plays*
Title card: The Gang Gets Hooked On Opiates
While I don’t know how it truly feels, hearing how bad it is from an ex, and seeing how bad it felt with a different ex, made me appreciate how bad it can be.
That being said, Joyce should go to the doctor anyway, right?
As a person who lived with debilitating pain for years, a thousand times yes. When pain makes performing normal daily tasks impossible, see a doctor.
??? Hmmmmm
Personally, I’m withholding judgment until we know what her solution is.
Ah, accounting for Hindsight Bias. Perhaps there is hope for the human species after all.
https://i.imgur.com/mQumGgD.png (NSFW)
https://i.imgur.com/a9ggQ44.png (NSFW)
Hope you enjoyed this lull. We still got a bit more to do.
The story so far…
https://imgur.com/a/9Ob1cy3 (NSFW)
I hope you aren’t killing yourself trying to get these done. It’s all been outstanding work, just make sure you take care of yourself too.
Not killing myself, Though I do try to rush out as much as I can before midnight. Mostly I just wanna get through the story as fast as I can. Probably should work on my own stuff a bit more.
Once you’re through the story, you can do cleanup and inking at a more reasonable pace.
I get that. When you have a scene on the brain, sometimes you just need to get it out first and worry about details later.
Totes with you on that one Rose! Game design is much the same way!
As big as a jerk as Jennifer is in many ways, you actually got me to feel something for her. And all while staying true to the authentic flavors of humor we’ve come to expect of DOA.
Everyone’s in character, it’s just PERFECT.
*plays “Miss Nancy Welcomes You” from Little Inferno on hacked muzak*
Unfortunately, that has just given me a different earworm from the same game. “….It’s Little Inferno just for me!
I’ve got the furnace
That burns at a hundred billion degrees…..”
I continue to both love and look forward to this every night.
Billie’s delighted grin in the last panel…
Say what?
Nevermind. Scrolling through I thought that was a comment on the comic at the top of the page, not Yoto’s. Which I now need to take a look at for Science.
For science
I remember having that quick a recovery about 45 years ago when I was Walky’s age. Now my refactory period varies between hours and days.
I wonder if there’s an actual reason they haven’t. Dorothy wouldn’t buy too many excuses from Joyce or Becky
Maybe Dorothy didn’t want to bring up birth control (that is used to help with periods correct? Forgive me I’m a cis male with a Midwestern level sex ed) back when Joyce was still Christian/pretending to be Christian
Birth control can indeed help with debilitating period symptoms! All the more frustrating to have it be considered nonessential (also a cis man here, but I have some close experiences with this specific topic)
It can. The symptoms Joyce is experiencing are close to those of somebody who really desperately need their whole reproductive system removed because they’re in danger of it literally killing them.
When my wife who’s symptoms weren’t quite as bad but nearly so finally after nearly twenty years of trying got a hysterectomy approved fortunately there were only precancerous cells. A lot of the things that can cause periods to be this horrific can easily and rapidly become actual cancer.
And then there’s the apparent severe anemia she suffers every time she goes through this. Also very bad for your body.
Even for a relatively liberal atheist like Dorothy there’s a pretty common perception that some people have really bad periods and that’s just normal.
It often comes from doctors telling them that it’s normal and not bothering to do any of the testing that would reveal the serious medical problem causing them so much pain.
I also think it’s a unique mix of different life experience and personality types that created a perfect storm of not doing anything. It’s the role Jennifer used to have in the group. For example Becky probably has less experience with addressing women’s health than Joyce. Her mom died when she was young and I doubt Ross was father enough to walk down the women’s isle. So unless she did a lot of self motivated research it’s a miracle she knows anything. Walky of course couldn’t be expected to say much in fact he thinks/knows he shouldn’t. Everyone probably had a reason.
Bonnie died about a year ago, comic time.
On the other hand, she may have been so focused on merely surviving and trying to protect Becky from Toedad that she never found the opportunity to teach her more than the basics.
Oh, okay. I don’t know why but it feels like she died when Becky was younger, I always imagined it happened when she was around 14 or so, not just last year. Okay, then Becky might know some stuff but I still doubt birth control was ever brought up in her house.
I mean, technically…
Depending on the individual, yes some varieties of birth control can be used to help with periods. I have Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome [PCOS] so I had to take the Birth Control Pill to even HAVE regular periods. (At long last I aged out of it.) Joyce would probably benefit from an implant of some kind to lessen the severity of her periods, if they knock her out this much. A iron supplement couldn’t hurt. But she needs to get to the health center ASAP.
Joyce has been extremely Not In The Mood To Talk for this storyline, and Dorothy is kind of a stickler for boundaries. She might’ve tried to bring it up after Joyce’s period was over, but I also kinda get the feeling Joyce would’ve downplayed/normalized the whole thing.
Because none of them are head cheerleaders. Isn’t that a requirement for being a problem solver?
Also a doctor, a doctor might be of help and none of them are that either.
Having a period must really suck…
When they suck that bad something is seriously wrong and you need a doctor.
I was in an accident that crushed vertebrae in my neck, dislocated my shoulder, cracked my pelvis, etc, etc… i genuinely would have to think about it if I had to go through that again or one of my worst periods.
And then to have a doctor tell me it was all in my head. I would have strangled him if I weren’t in so much pain I couldn’t stand. But then I threw up on him. “Now it’s all on your shoe.” Gods, he was pissed, the b*stard.
Good comeback, though! Sounds like he was an asshole with no empathy for his patients.
Totally unprofessional to casually disregard your patient’s concerns like that. Even if you can’t figure out what the issue is, at least you could refer them to get a second opinion! Just saying it’s “in the patient’s head”, basically accusing them of making it up… that’s just callous and messed up. Then again, so is the whole American medical system, really.
Unfortunately, this is common with male doctors and female patients, they consider female pain to be mostly psychological, without thinking psychological pain hurts just as much as any other kind of pain.
I’m so jealous of the health care options available to college students that I’m starting to get actively upset that Joyce won’t see a freaking doctor already.
You don’t have health care options, Jammy?
I am so sorry to hear that! 🙁
That sucks. (*Laura sits down and is mad with you.*)
Folks know me as the Infodump guy so … apologies for the overload, but just in case anyone needs to get health care, here are a few options.
Find a community health center near you: https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
Private-pay drugstore clinics: https://www.cvs.com/minuteclinic
More private-pay drugstore clinics: https://www.target.com/c/clinic/-/N-54×94
When I was young and couldn’t get health insurance (pre-ACA), we figured out all kinds of workarounds.
The Catholic Worker clinic if you show up at the butt-crack of dawn and wait all day.
The CDC’s public office or Planned Parenthood for exams and infectious disease screening.
The city public health clinics were pretty atrocious back then, so we avoided them. (A doctor who appeared drunk on the job, a dentist who would only do extractions, no matter the problem…)
The university’s practice clinic for dental students.
Neighborhood cost-sharing “health care pools” (everyone pays dues every week so that anyone can get money from the community pot in case of emergencies, and doctors joined up to provide services at a discount).
Figuring out barter systems to trade yard work for private health care services from folks who knew a little.
Getting help from the LGBTQ+/PWA community center.
I even considered converting to Christian Science so I could pray my health care needs away.
It’s rough, scrounging for health care by hook or by crook!
More free clinics: https://www.freeclinics.com/
Sign up for Obamacare and Medicaid expansion (where available): https://www.healthcare.gov/
Options for immigrants: https://www.healthcare.gov/immigrants/coverage/
(explained here: https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/fact-sheet/health-coverage-of-immigrants/ )
California and some cities are expanding community health plans and state-sponsored Medicaid to cover undocumented residents, but progress is slow and spotty.
These resources have less credentials attached to them, so I don’t know how good they are, but maybe:
https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/patient-advocacy/healthcare-for-undocumented-immigrants
https://www.goodrx.com/healthcare-access/patient-advocacy/healthcare-undocumented
https://www.talktomira.com/post/healthcare-options-for-undocumented-immigrants
OK, I’m sorry, I’ll sit down and be quiet now.
I just…
…my partner died because he couldn’t get health insurance due to a preexisting condition (pre-ACA) and couldn’t afford care without it. We went to the ER together so many times, when he would stop breathing, and without followup care the problem never got fixed.
Still haunts me.
So any time I hear about folks having trouble accessing care, I just fly into “emergency mode”.
Everyone deserves free access to care. Everyone.
Thank you Laura. This comes from a very good place, your will to help others like this is very much admirable, an inspiration to us all.
😭😭😭
I am so sorry about your partner. That shouldn’t have been allowed to happen. There should have been safety nets. (There should BE safety nets. Civilised countries should not allow people to die of treatable conditions because they can’t afford to pay!)
Thank you, Miri and The Wellerman. He was a good friend. He was the love of my life.
I’m sorry, Laura and Jammy. It’s so fucked up to not be able to find affordable options.
I’m so sorry, Laura. 🙁 That really sucks, and I hope one day socialized medicine will be a reality in the US. And you don’t need to apologize about going into emergency mode. You’re trying to help someone in need, which is very admirable of you. This information really needs to be shared.
Thanks, BBCC and a/snow/mous/e
And Jammy, I do apologize for making it all about my own life story. That wasn’t respectful and I am sorry.
Oooh! Don’t please feel that way Laura!
Your story, what you’ve been through, comes from a deepfelt place, so of course you can’t help but share it whenever the subject is brought up.
Your emphasis on the importance of care and it’s availability, the impact it had on you, is very much valued here, your will to share all this so as to save lives comes from a very good place.
🥹🥹🥹
What healthcare for college students? Only if your manipulative parents chose to pay for something that would give you freedom from them.
I mean it was a whole thing to get her to get glasses. One medical issue a semester, Jennifer.
I am of two minds. Yeah, they could/should be more proactive here, but they also risk Joyce shoving them away more because she drags her heels on everything when it comes to health stuff. Ultimately, they can only do what they let her do, after all.
Still, I feel like they’ve been a bit lax here.
PCOS is a possibility that crossed my mind, but outside of pain, she hasn’t really brought up any other symptoms of it that I can recall.
Yeah, she’s so afraid of doctors that she might as well be Kid Goku from Dragon Ball GT. 😅
This is why I love
BillieJennifer. She talks a good game about how much she hates all the nerds around her, but when her friends have problems, she is on it, with her wealth of helpful knowledge pertaining to terrible and horrific things.Head cheerleader. Problem solver.
Or, as Walky put it, she’s like the Giving Tree, if the Giving Tree stuffed you into lockers.
SAUCE please? 🤪
I recommend an emulsion of egg yolk, melted butter, and lemon juice, seasoned with salt and cayenne pepper, served in a shiny metallic dish.
Because there’s no plate like chrome for the Hollandaise.
No I mean the SOURCE strip of Walky mentioning the Giving Tree thing 😅
But yes that does sound very tasty! Thank you human! 😋
Huh… I mean… I’m sitting here at home, emphasizing with Joyce because my body also doesn’t have a clue how to handle a period…
Literally no one, not doctors, parents, friends, no one, has ever suggested it is a solvable issue. Lot of sympathy. In the past two months, it’s gotten bad enough that a doctor is starting to take notice. But I’ve had a period for 16 years that just makes it hard to get out of bed and literally just heard “Yeah, it sucks, I’m sorry.”
I guess good on Jennifer for considering a period can be solved, and isn’t just “sometimes shit sucks”.
Oh, gosh, Lexi, that’s awful. I am so sorry.
heh, same. Just between this year and the last I’ve seen four (4) different specialists trying to figure out why my periods suck so many farts and every time I am met with basically “lol them’s the breaks, suck it up u whiny bongo*”
*usage of “bongo” fully intended
I don’t want to state the obvious, but yes, oftentimes there are things that can help severe period symptoms.
I think a lot of people don’t realize how bad things are for them because, yes, periods suck for pretty much everyone. However, not everyone’s baseline “suck” is the same. For most people, most periods are inconvenient and they experience discomfort. Being in so much pain you can barely move and so fatigued you can barely get out of bed or think straight is abnormal. Having debilitating migraines that last for days at a time without intervention are abnormal. If your period is overwhelmingly interfering with your ability to live your life or even function at all, you likely have something medically wrong with you. The good news is it might be treatable, or at least manageable! The bad news is it could be caused by quite a few different things and figuring out what it is could be pretty difficult! But you also don’t have to suffer in silence! And also there are options to treat the symptoms in the meantime!
This post brought to you by: me learning what PMDD is, being confused because, “wait, isn’t that just what a period is for everyone?” and then having some realizations.
Yeah, I think it’s finally reached a point where all signs point to Endometriosis for me. Which is sadly not curable, but is treatable. Now I just need to get an appointment with a OBY/GN, at least.
But yeah, there was many, many years of “Well, it’s normal for it to suck” before some soul searching of “Okay, this is clearly not a reasonable level of suck, not every woman I know is cancelling their lives around their period like I am.”
Didn’t help that my first doctor was like “Yeah, it sucks for everyone. Take advil, and if that doesn’t fix it, I’ll prescribe stronger advil.” I mean, Advil is okay… It doesn’t not help. I just eventually end up tolerating a shit ton of pain anyways.
That was my first thought when I saw this update.
Just, Oh…they lost their boss B who handled stuff.
Glad she’s still looking out for them in her own way. Can’t wait for tomorrow when Becky explains this has been the status quo since puberty and gets told it’s not normal. And that’s not in a hating Becky way, I actually like her character a LOT. But being told this isn’t something normal needs to happen.
Probably they were raised not to ever discuss their periods.
I’m starting to Billie-ve
I know, right?
You’re a Billiever?
Further fuel for my notion that Billie will be the hero of the storyline.
Dunno, maybe the’re waiting for an alpha bongo to sort it out?
I’m just s cis dude so my take ain’t eorth shit, but it is a little weird that in a friend group mainly consisting of sexually mature women, not a single one has suggested Joyce maybe at least visiting a doctor. Especially Dorothy who got a lot of mother hen heat for essentially forcing Joyce to get a eye exam at the slightest potential she has poor vision. But again I’m just a cis dude. Maybe women don’t talk openly about women’s health. As a guy I don’t often ask my male friends how their balls are doing. Maybe I should?
No, I think generally speaking, “Period cramps hurt a lot” has been so ingrained into women of all ages that most women put up with a massive amount of pain and write it off as “period.”
Hell, I went to the ER last month, for an intense pain that felt exactly like my period but was at the wrong time of month, and multiple times, female nurses and doctors tried to brush it off as “Your period came early.” I was VOMITTING from pain, and that was still in the realm of normal. I even told my doctor a year earlier that my periods were intensely painful, she looked for a cyst once, saw nothing and then proceeded to brush it right off.
And even after all that, it’s been over a month now since that ER visit, and I haven’t managed to register as important enough for an OBY/GN appointment.
If anything, I’m impressed no one told her she’s exaggerating and it’s no big deal.
Years ago, I had a temperature of 38.9°C alongside a vomming bug. I couldn’t keep anything down and needed to cycle paracetamol (Tylenol) and ibuprofen (neurofen?) religiously coz as soon as antipyretics were out of my system I would feel like I had been thrown in an ice bath. My fingernails would turn blue with the experienced cold. After the first lot of antiemetics failed to work, my parents convinced me to go to A&E.
“Could you be pregnant?”
“Umm, BC and last period on [date] so not likely”
“Well, do you mind doing a test anyway, just to rule it out?”
I was not pregnant. (I did have hyperemesis throughout all 3 of my pregnancies, but the first of those was about 9 years off at that point…)
If you are a woman and are experiencing health issues, about 40% of doctors seem inclined to think that this is in fact that you’re probably unfamiliar with your own menstrual cycles, pregnant, or fat. (Experience of ratio may vary but that’s my impression from talking to people. And I’ve never been accused of being a drug-seeker personally but that happens too apparently…)
I assure you (from a place of inexperience) that cis dudes generally are thrilled to talk about their balls at the slightest provocation. It’s an instinct, honed over thousands and thousands of years.
Not so much honed as well-rounded.
I am told that testicular cancer IS the most common form of cancer in men.
But don’t take it from me. Take it from a very special guest…
https://youtu.be/KsdD1MJXOpk
Testi cancer is different. It doesn’t have a stigma of being mystified or a man’s burden or secret to bear like women’s health. Hell, internet doofuses freaked out that they mentioned a period openly once in Turning Red in 2022! Plus you don’t have to worry about cancer once every month.
Yes, it’s funny — it just all gets accepted as normal and nobody’s business but the person’s who suffers.
I used to do full-body massage, so when my college roommate was suffering from cramps, I massaged her and called the nurse for her. School nurse didn’t have much advice, though.
My roommate then did Reiki for me, in turn, but then she charged me money for it! ;-D (Gotta get what you can, but I was such a penny pincher, for so many years…)
But a lot of people will help, in less public settings — will go out and get you sanitary products, medicine, etc. When you’re in private.
Funny story — long ago, I was hitchhiking with a group of men, and they saw me go out into a field to change my pad. They asked me, “Why don’t you use the Keeper?” (Keeper was a rubber cup that sits inside the vagina to catch menstrual fluid.) Indignantly, I said, “That’s my business. Do I ask you about your penises?” One of the guys said, “No, but I wish you would. We should talk about our health more so we can learn from each other.” I love that. 🙂
Always great to see you here Laura!!!
How have you been? 😊
Thank you, The Wellerman. It’s so nice to see you here, too.
I read, when I can turn the javascript off. Keeps the scaries at bay. I get scared online and don’t want to participate. But I do keep reading.
Good to see all my friends here.
🥺 Oooh!!! So sorry to hear that Laura!
Have you tried Brave Browser? Or a VPN? I use both on top of each other and never get any ads, scary or otherwise!
Yeah, I concur, always great to see friends like you around here! 🤗
Thank you, hon’. Turning off java script seems to do the trick. 🙂
You’re welcome. Take care, Laura! You’re a great friend!!! 😊
*plays “My White Bicycle” by Tommorrow on hacked muzak*
OMG, that song is blowing my mind.
possible that joyce is avoiding the doctor b/c american healthcare too lol
It’s not so much that you are a cis due, but that, for a long time, most medical experts were cis dudes, and that the medical sector still suffers from not letting women get a say.
Been this ways since Agnodike, wether she existed or not…
The pain is so normalized that in college one of my friends went to the ER with a burst ovarian cyst, and then was back at lunch the next day like ‘nbd, happens to my mom and sister too’ when we asked where she’d been the day before. Shit’s fucked.
(Not to drag in other political happenings, but this same friend later had her access to the hormonal birth control that treated her endometriosis threatened bc her Catholic grad school didn’t want to pay for it… even though she’s a lesbian and obviously not using it to control birth)
Only ask about balls status if you like to hear things like “big and hairy, hard to carry”.
There something you know we don’t Jennifer?
“Head cheerleader. I fix problems.”
Aw shit! I think Jennifer knows the secret of why kids love the great taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch!
Jennifer commands a wealth of helpful knowledge about terrible things.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/allergies/
It’s not always that simple, Jennifer, but it’s worth getting it looked at.
Sometimes you need a mean friend to say what everyone’s avoiding
Yeah, a lot of people here are speculating that Billie might just be the hero of this arc.
While the title may very much suggest that, I can’t help but get the feeling that her intentions may not be completely altruistic.
Still though, can’t wait to see where this goes!
The important thing about being a Mean Friend is knowing that ‘mean’ is a last resort.
Most Mean Friends don’t get this.
Well, I mean, on average, mean friends Are average.
Go Jennifer! Herd Joyce to a doctor because her alleged friends aren’t concerned that she’s in this much pain on the reg, or at least bully said friends into herding.
Dorothy seems unaware of what is going on, and Becky is probably just as ignorant about the medical options available as Joyce is.
If she’s only having them roughly three months apart, and they hit like that, then yeah, something is definitely wrong enough to have her seek medical help.
Okay, I know my y-chromosome ignorance is showing by my even asking this question, but how solvable is this?
(…. also, “solve for x”. I just got the double meaning.)
I would guess it’s the standard ‘birth control pills make periods less terrible’ thing.
Could also be “periods are painful but if they’re crippling agony, there’s usually something seriously wrong.” Anything from a twisted ovary to cysts to endometriosis to a bunch of other things even worse. Jennifer’s right. Joyce *really* needs to get this checked.
Depends what it is. It could be a wealth of things but my best guess is endometriosis.
If it’s endometriosis, then it’s a solvable problem if you can get the doctors to do more than shrug at you and suggest hot water bottles. Birth control can help or, if you can talk anyone into doing it (let alone for a woman Joyce’s age) you can have an ablation of the lining which usually solves it. Worst case scenario a hysterectomy would solve it.
Ablation doesn’t fix endo, since the problem is outside the uterus. The only “fix” is excision of endometriomas, and even that’s not a cure since they can come back. Hysterectomy doesn’t even fix it sometimes (experience; less than a year out from hysterectomy and starting to have endo cramps/bloating occasionally).
The cynical side of me wants to say that because it’s a women’s problem, there’s little research, a lack of knowledge from doctors, and few effective options even for temporary relief.
I was speaking in broad strokes about how solvable the potential issue was. Not specifically about a complete cure (since I consider an imperfect symptomatic solve still worthwhile), but that’s my fault for not being more precise in how I spoke.
The cynical side of you is 100% correct on how little research is done on women’s health issues (specifically those affecting the menstrual cycle) and that’s definitely why there’s so little awareness/knowledge of many issues in that vein.
I was just thinking the other day about this. Like, Joyce needs glasses? Cool, we can measure EXACTLY to the millimetre just how much glasses she needs, with a handy chart and system and precision equipment just for that.
Joyce is experiencing intense period pain? How about advil and a hot water bottle? That’s just being a woman, sorry it sucks. Really, it’s probably normal, are you sure it’s not normal? Oh, maybe a cyst burst, it just happens, sorry it sucks. Let’s put you on a two month waiting list and maybe you can get some birth control to help. Or we can sterilize you, that sometimes helps.
Who, ME?
why are Dorothy, Becky and Dina standing straight in formation waiting for Joyce to come out in the first panel? it looks very unnatural
I am also unsure why Dorothy isn’t more concerned after the fuss with glasses. Billie being the eye-opener here should be a real, well… eye opener!
Well, they are only in their 2nd semester. Dorothy would have only had a chance to notice around 4 of Joyce’s cycles. Maybe it has just been a case of bad luck that they happened when Dorothy was overly busy with school, or involved in her extra-cirriculars.
There’s also the maybe thing that she only has 3 or 4 periods a year so this might only be the second real period she’s had around everybody but Becky. At this point we don’t know (except DYW, he knows as Joyce is his creation, with input from his wife), most of us are just running on supposition and life experience. I know nothing about period pain, but if you want pointers on delivring babies at home I can do that, there for 2, second one was a compound breech. I’m also pretty good with lingering pain from traumatic injury, and untreated psychological traumas, unconnected traumas, but both pretty bad. One left me with some huge scars for the last 20 years or so, the other has left me an emotional cripple since the Ford administration if not longer.
Joyce has a regular cycle, but apparently her ‘bad periods’ are not every time. She’s had one bad one before in college apparently. So that might make it seem less urgent since it’s not every time.
okay i just realized something. they’ve probably gone through this before during the time skip, dorothy has probably already tried to convince joyce to get help, and she was probably met with utter refusal.
I’m guessing because she would likely need a GYN exam, Joyce is going to fight this with every fiber of her being. weirdness about nudity and sex from her upbringing will probably keep her from letting anyone examine her giggly bits, and since everyone else here has figured that out, they’ve jusr accepted it. that’s my guess anyway.
At what age is the first pap smear recommended? She needs to get checked for cervical cancer at some point.
21 i think, that’s when i got mine. So she wouldn’t be expected to have gotten it yet but she’s getting there
To my knowledge, it’s like 21 or 25 or something like that so Joyce wouldn’t be old enough for that to be suggested yet.
Why aren’t -you- solving this ?
Yeah.
Maybe Dorothy just needs someone to get right in her face and go “fix it. Today” and then she’ll go for it.
A true politician – only solving the problems the loud, wealthy, and/or popular voices demand.
If you’re referencing what I think you’re referencing, it needs an “or else”.
Jennifer is asking the one million dollar question. Seriously, why? Are they all afraid to talk to Joyce about birth control pills and how they could help her? I could almost understand Becky don’t tell her about that, But Dorothy… Why Dorothy, WHY???
For no particular reason I’ll enter the “pedant of the year” competition.
The in-comic word is “hrghl” but the comic title is “hurghl”
Which one are you claiming is misspelled?
Well, it’s about freaking time.
They’ve been at school, what, a year now? At least a long enough time for Joyce to have had several periods; if Joyce’s symptoms are bad enough that she’s in bad enough pain that she’s skipping classes and crawling around because she can’t walk, one would think that it would’ve been remarked on before now. It’s not unusual for women to have more serious health problems that get dismissed as “just a period”.
I mean, this has become Chekhov’s uterus at this point.
They’ve been in school for one semester, during which time Joyce has had one similar period apparently. Hence Walky saying she only has bad periods sometimes.
One time I tore something during wrestling practice and my coach tried to say it was a menstrual cramp!
Jennifer in that last panel be like “leave Jiren to me.”
… how do you “solve” a period??
You can help, or alleviate it, but i don’t think you can just “solve it”
It does seem like she needs to see a specialist.
Joyce is not experiencing a normal, healthy period. The “solve it” part is directed at her unusual cycle and abnormal pain/illness surrounding the period.
If you’re in the kind of pain/misery on your period that Joyce seems to be in, you need to talk to a doctor. Preferably at a women’s health clinic, and be prepared to loudly advocate for yourself.
See this is why you need a HEAD CHEERLEADER PROBLEM SOLVER
Thank you, Jennifer! Take her to the doctor, pleaseeeee
I was on birth control by the time I was in high school for this exact reason, but I suspect Joyce’s parents were against birth control of any kind.
Oh no Billie, Are you advocating reaching out to a friend desperately in need who probably won’t appreciate your advice or intervention?
Yeah you’re hanging out with Raidah now. You’re really going to have to suppress that urge if you want to keep your current friend group.
I figure Raidah’s objection was more the “sending her friend back home without anyone else’s foreknowledge.”
Which… did Dana even know it was gonna happen?
Yeah, whatever everyone may disagree about Sarah’s actions, they factually were not “reaching out to a friend”. That much we know.
My speculation on your question is “no”. I think Sarah just called Dana’s father and he came to see what was happening.
Well, it’s important to reiterate that Sarah did try. They brushed it off as “she’ll be fine” since as far as it’s been depicted, Dana was super good about lying to them.
I’m probably looking too deep into things but I kinda like the possibility that Sarah’s recount of the Dana fiasco is running on a bit of unreliable narrator. Not so much lying but that maybe Sarah made the unilateral choice to Dana’s detriment (and conversely, that Sarah should not have had to make that choice in the first place).
*that Sarah made the unilateral choice to Dana’s detriment and she only remembers it as a a moment where she did the right, hard thing
Sarah also said she tried to make Dana feel better but, knowing herself, says she probably made her feel worse.
I would’ve missed what Joyce was going through too, but I’m a cis dude and I’ve never really been able to tell when a female friend was on her period. And I have no idea how much pain is “normal” for that either.
Willis, I don’t think anyone in the strip (possibly apart from Dorothy) particularly likes X. Nobody here’s going to do X’s dirty work, not even Billie.
I’d tread lightly around X. If you don’t, then there’s a good chance that X gonna give it to you.
HEY, I heard someone’s got some overdue books at the library!
It’s sad to think this may lead Joyce to realize her reproductive choices are possibly going to be limited depending on how this plays out. Sad mostly because her reality has already been shaken to it’s core, and it seemed like having natural children was an important possibility for her.
But, as I’m sure many of us can attest to, life never turns out like you thought it would when you were in high school. It’d be a hard truth for her to accept but it’s not the end of the world. Life keeps moving and eventually you find the life you ended up with is much more important to you than the life you thought you’d live.
And of course, she has a strong group to support her !!!
Here’s a thought…
Would Joyce have ever actually been to see a gynecologist? Going to see a special doctor just for your lady parts seems like the kind of decadent secular humanist thing that fundies would avoid as much as possible.
Probably not but hopefully she’s been to a family doctor or GP, who could recommend further medical care.
Glad to see someone has a functional brain and is able to point out the blindingly obvious. It shouldn’t have taken this long however, particularly with so many other people of the female persuasion closely involved here. So I am anticipating a plotline where it is recommended she go on birth control to control whatever is causing this, and the associated drama convincing Joyce to go on it.
I don’t know how common this is in the greater population, but I know with the various women in my close family and friend circles, more of them are on pill based birth control for pain/endo/etc. issues than for actual birth control reasons.
When I had to do this they told me there was an option that wouldn’t function as a contraceptive if a patient was uncomfortable with that aspect of it.
What is Billie talking about? They’ve already tried sitting on her and berating her. What else can they possibly do for Joyce?
She was so mature about the glasses, I’m sure she won’t snap at anyone who tries to discuss a personal medical issue.
I love this article:
No One Has to Get Their Period Anymore
Menstruating is painful, expensive, and … unnecessary?
By Marion Renault
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/07/why-menstruate-if-you-dont-have/614350/
With the advent of LARC and hormonal contraception, menstruation is now optional.
A pain which had needlessly plagued humans for thousands of years, abolished through the Power of Science!!!
A power that helps and saves millions all over the world….
I yearn to be with this power forever!
😭😭😭
*plays “Infotain Me” by Ochre on hacked muzak*
Nexplanon made my periods bearable (before that, I was basically bedbound during it). It’s expiring soon, and I have to decide whether to stick with it or switch to something else when I get it removed.
I’d like something that completely stops my periods, but I’m concerned about the side effects of the pill. 🙁 So I dunno.
How about an IUD?
I know it’s prolly too late for you to see this since the next comic’s posted…
I’m really scared it’ll hurt a lot to get it put in, and it’s not guaranteed to stop my periods anyhow. (I think Nexplanon might even have a higher chance?)
Nothing’s guaranteed. If you can, find a provider you trust, who’s done it hundreds of times before. Good luck finding a solution that works for you.
Here’s my experience with IUDs, in case it helps:
I picked IUDs because I really can’t trust myself to take a pill every day, and I ruled out the implant because my doctor said it was likely that the bump would be visible for me, and I didn’t want to explain to my parents with… awkward attitudes towards sexual activity. I picked copper because my periods were pretty light and irregular anyways, and I was worried about hormonal side effects on my mental state since I’d just gotten a depression diagnosis.
My first IUD hurt like hell to put in (they gave us misoprostol or something to make it easier? worst cramps I’ve ever had, do not recommend, even with the “muscle relaxer” that… helped, but I don’t really like feeling like that made me feel). That one was copper, and it came dislodged after five or six months (little piece of plastic sticking through my cervix = mild daily discomfort and very uncomfortable if anything bumps it). I’d switched providers at that point, so the doctor who put it in my second copper one in was different. That one was pretty painless, just mild discomfort and very strange sensations with the ibuprofen I’d been told to take, but also I have a very normally placed uterus/cervix and she’d done it a hundreds of times before.
… that one came dislodged within a couple months too, which was frustrating because the cramps and much heavier flow that come with copper were finally settling down to manageable levels. So I was referred to a women’s clinic where I was told they’d put in a copper one if I really really pushed for it, but she recommended a hormonal one instead because that wouldn’t matter if its placement shifted around a little bit. I picked the mirena, although she said that if I was worried about side effects a lower dose one (skyla?) that I’d have to get replaced sooner would be a better choice. That experience was similar to the second time. So that’s what I’ve had for the past few years now.
Physical side effects: period comes only once every couple months, very irregularly, light enough that tampons would be painful because they’d still be dry by the time I had to take them out. Sometimes it’s light enough that I don’t even need panty liners, and it’s been so light for a year that I’ve forgotten to track it. No cramps (though I only really ever had them with the copper IUDs, and those were sometimes more painful than when I broke my fingers), no bloating/nausea that I’d sometimes get even before birth control.
Mental side effects: I have a much lower libido now, and it feels like it’s harder to think, but I got this put in in late 2018 when I was going through some major life changes and so it’s really hard to disentangle that from the… generally increased stress about the state of the world and the resulting lack of sleep? and it’s not bad enough for me to say, take this IUD out I want to see for sure whether this is the cause.
good luck with whatever you choose, it’s rough because we never know how our bodies in particular will react to a particular birth control.
Personally I find pain in childbirth and pregnancy the greatest evidence for sadistic design.
I get us liking sweets and not liking excercise, thats a result of us winning the game so hard new problems came up, but why would we evolve to have pregnancy be painful?
“Intelligent Design” my asshole!!!! 😒
Bipedalism (so narrow hips) plus big skulls to hold big brains.