Oh, I assumed this was basically a raptor attack, but she got tangled in the shirt, seeing how she doesn’t have claws to actually rip into Joe’s flesh. I mean, maybe it still is. Lets see if she goes for the jugular in the next one.
If she were performing a realistic raptor attack, she would be jumping on his back, holding on by her feet claws(?), flapping her arms for balance and using her mouth to eat away/do extra harm.
It’s called RPR (Raptor Prey Restrain) and that’s how modern birds of prey hunt. That’s inferred on dromeosaurs (dinosaur raptors) because of their relatively closeness and their anatomy being consistent with the behavior.
I was going to suggest that both of you set aside money in your wills for the shovel Becky will buy to bury you with, but then I remembered she’s not poor anymore.
I mean the idea that just that a girl would consider having sex with you as actually ruining herself is pretty insulting. No offense to Liz…actually no a little offense to Liz. Sex is a two way street and Joe deserved a little more respect than that. Both partners have to be considerate.
Anyone she didn’t love and wasn’t heterosexually, monogamously married to in the correct form of Christian ceremony.
You can take the Christian out of the girl, but no a lot of the time you really can’t. Those shitty ideas embedded into you as a child just stay there.
Believe me, I hung on to a lot of weird ideas long after I became an atheist, they just became recontextualized. It wasn’t until I became a very close friend with a pagan who was willing to talk to me about it that I began to re-examine the nature of some of my beliefs.
Yeah, but it’s still a harsh thing to say *to Joe*.
Like, yes, she was in a scary spot, and I have empathy for her. But I also have empathy for Joe. And that situation was more on Liz than on him, even though yes, he could have read the signals.
Turns out even horndogs have feelings.
It’d be like if I requested a favor from my friend and then halfway through I said “actually y’know what, nevermind. I don’t want you to fuck it up.”
Like you’re always welcome to change your mind but there is a less dickish way to put that.
To me it read like she didn’t consider Joe as someone worthy of love. Like sleeping with him would taint her because she didn’t think for even a second he was someone she could fall in love with. He was just a guy who wanted sex. At least I wouldn’t be surprised if Joe took it like that. It kind of feels like he was really used in that situation. More so even than when he banged Malaya.
It wasn’t about Joe, it was about her own sexual hangups. She wanted to have sex with him to assert herself from her upbringing and peers at her campus, except sex is still this big scary thing to her. She wants to have sex, the act of sex has meaning to her, but she’s still inundated in what she was told to think about sexual purity.
it’s surprising how little that matters when you get rejected by someone saying that being with you would have “ruined [them] forever”. That’s some serious pain.
Yeah, she certainly didn’t mean it that way. There was nothing specific about it being Joe that meant she’d be ruined, it was that she was doing it at all. (In her mind, of course.)
And honestly, I don’t think that part really bothered Joe. I don’t think it was the rejection, but that he’s seeing this as another way that girls can be hurt by his approach to sexuality, even when he’s following his own rules. And of course that she’s his Joyce substitute just makes it worse.
It would reinforce his self-conception that he cannot have a real connection with a woman because he would be doomed to abandon her, I suspect. Without knowing it Liz basically told Joe his worst fears about himself are true.
More I think that he can hurt women without abandoning them. Which was what Joyce pointed out to him over the list, but now he sees himself as having come close to hurting Liz as well.
Lets stress, though, that Joe did not hurt Liz. This was Liz’s mistake to make. What’s hurting Joe seems to be that he thinks it would be on some level his fault, that he’s inherently destructive to women.
(The issues of “Joe had a hunch she was being reckless”, “Joe didn’t actually want to have sex but didn’t have the words to express that”, and “Liz was kind of using Joe as an object and not considering his feelings in this because she’s still new to being an ethical slut” are also important. It’s a messy situation. But you never blame your partner for you not understanding your own limits.)
The harm was minimized because Liz pulled back in time, but he’s likely thinking about what if she hadn’t and still thought she was ruined afterwards. (And: Have any of the other girls felt that way afterwards without me knowing? Is that how it would be with Joyce?)
On the abstract moral level of blame, he did nothing wrong, but on an emotional level for anyone with a degree of empathy knowing that sleeping with you “ruined” them is going to mess you up.
And this ties back to Joe’s basic conflict – his whole thing is his flawed attempt to avoid hurting women like his father did. Now he sees another way his plan to avoid that by keeping sex casual might have failed.
Yes, but “No” is really, REALLY bad, you see. I’d actually prefer it if they called me a stinky, smelly pile of garbage and kicked me in the nuts – I could at least interpret that as them playing hard-to-get.
Joe tried to fuck his way out of having feelings for Joyce by diving back into the situation he thinks is the only thing he’s good at: casual sex with a stranger.
Then Liz (who is Not-Joyce) freaks out and starts festering in her own sexual guilt complex, except Joe’s hearing her say “I almost ruined myself forever” and processing it as a condemnation of himself, that he not only cannot be emotionally available to other people and Joyce in particular, he can’t even try to turn back to who he used to be without being told sex with him is a permanent mistake.
Geez when you put it like that is sounds like that whole interaction was really fucked up for everyone. The moral of this story? Don’t have sex or try to have sex ever!
The way I read it; Joe is very careful about consent. He knew, or realized, when she said what she said, that doing it with Liz would’ve been taking advantage of her. And he was blinded by this fact by his want to get Joyce out of his head.
Also, when danny gets sexiled he comments that it hasn’t been a thing for a long time, so I’m betting this joyce-thing has been something Joe’s been struggling with for a while. And now it almost lead to this… he’s probably a mess!
Joe’s whole brand was tied up in no-strings-attached sex because that way no one got hurt and he wasn’t a monster like his father. Now he’s realizing sex without an emotional connection can cause regret. His world-view is shattered.
Joe’s obviously not in best form right now. It’s one thing to do it at all, but it’s just unsportsmanlike to hit a man in Joe’s condition in the face with a brick joke.
Please accept an appropriate expression of support as social situations have the added element of a pandemic setting. Hasn’t done my various diagnoses a bit of good. I hope you’re doing well.
Dina likely would only perform eye contact for people also capable of seeing it. The point of performing it is that it is a reciprocal thing. If the blind person is capable of reciprocating and has enough vision to, she would. If they are fully blind or wearing sunglasses then one of you can’t see the eyes of the other so you cannot reciprocate or guarantee established eye contact which would render it a pointless endeavor.
As someone who feels similarly to Dina about eye contact (but I force myself to do it a lot), I can confirm I would not make eye contact with a blind or vision impaired person, but I would be sure to turn my face directly to them while talking since that is the equivalent. I wear tinted glasses and it makes eye contact a lot easier for me.
You can absolutely meet, or even exceed, all expectations and still disappoint. Whether or not you’ve disappointed someone has little, if anything, to do with their expectations of you.
It’s not uncommon for strips to share names with an earlier strip. There was a strip a few days ago that was the fourth time that name’d been used for a strip!
I tip my hat to thee good being! May your questions always lead to knowledge and may your google searches never lead you to a cursed image (like that Furby that looks like it’s made out of baked beans O_O ).
Smart Connected Products. He makes decisions based on stimuli from many specialized sensors networked together. /sarcasm (I have no idea what this conversation is actually about.)
The SCP Foundation is a open creative writing project, which is about paranomal phenomena that is managed by the shadowy titular ficticious organisation (SCP stands for Special Containment Procedures). Creative writing works are usually about a paranormal phenomenon, and they’re all organised into cases. Go check out their wiki for more! https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/
If you like the vibe, Control is a game that’s heavily influenced by it.
Oof Joe.
Has he never boned someone who regretted it before? I mean, I wuv himb, but it seems odd that he’s apparently been an Active Bonermeister for Some Time now, boning mainly ppl his age, who are ALL idiots- none of them regretted it? Or did he just not see their vulnerable-regret, rather their ‘fuk you’ regret later?
Or is it just cos Liz was standing in for Joyce that it got to him? Which, yes, fair.
but given his established issue with ruining people, it seems odd that This hasn’t come up before.
Anyway I wuv him, and i wuv Dina, who, damn Dina. Like, every austism spectrum character I can currently think of, including most irl ppl I know to be austic, have a real anxious self-doubt thing going on with shit like this. Dina just don’t care. Dina Fully prepared to risk weirdness. fukin luv Dina.
Um, just curious, are you using any particular definition of autism here?
Because I think the definition has changed over the years, and still varies a lot between different places, and I just wanna make sure I’m on the same page as you.
It’s a common fan theory that Dina has a mild Autism-spectrum disorder (most likely what used to be called Asperger Syndrome until the mid-2010s). She has the characteristic deep knowledge of a narrow subject matter, abnormal speech patterns, and blindness to nonverbal social cues.
I shared a lot of Dina’s idiosyncrasies, except that instead of Dinosaurs, it was Invader Zim and anything related (aleins, robots, programming, astrophysics, time-travel, college-level electronics, etc), and instead of cereal, I was eating so many chicken nuggets and gold-fish that I might as well have been injecting them. I also had (and still have) most of Dina’s problems, including those about eye-contact.
One paragraph is insufficient data to draw a conclusion from, but it’s possible. Do you have to expend mental energy to deliberately parse in-person, nonverbal communication?
I was diagnosed with AS in middle school (20+ years ago), and I see a lot of the kids with I’ve worked with over the years (and some of myself) in Dina.
Yes, it does take a lot out of me, and after a lot of it I get this sickening feeling in my head, like I’m nauseous without feeling anything in my stomach. One time, I even semi-passed out from that exhaustion like Dina did at that party that one time, and it was SUPER relatable.
I don’t really have a definitive grasp of asd, just that of an interested internet person who’s motivated in advance to not to be a dick to any austic ppl I meet /work with.
Might be worth adressing your experiences with a doctor/psych? If they’re causing you trouble /stress, at least.
Well, it’s just that, it’s peculiar for me to see people use the term like this
In any case, I prefer to think of myself (and consequently, Dina) as “socially challenged” instead of “autistic”, because personally, I strongly dislike that word.
They may well have regretted it and not let him know. If all of his sex has been casual, the only sign may have been that they didn’t come back for more.
If Liz hadn’t regretted it before really starting, but instead the day after she’d left campus, he’d have never known. Now he might be wondering how many others have.
Science class was at least a couple days ago in-comic. Yesterday was when Hurricane Liz made landfall and everybody skipped, and today has Joe dealing with the aftereffects.
Dina remember me a parent I have, she is schyzo and have authism. After years of treatment, she is able to look into someone eyes, and sometimes have some empathy in figure out if if the another people is sad.
Did not have time to scroll through the previous 112 comments, so I’m sure this has already been said, but still:
I find myself wondering, did he not have sex with her, and now feels sad because he ‘let his father down’?
Did he have sex with her and now feels bad because it was the ‘wrong thing to do’ and feelz…
Did he have sex with her and it was aweful and now feel bad?
Oh Joe, you’re actually maturing and yes, feelz suck ass.
I don’t think he feels guilty at all about stopping (after all, she retracted consent and that’s kind of his thing), I think he feels guilty because he ignored his doubts and let it get to that point in the first place. She was play-acting the role of the person she thought she wanted to be, and he feels like he should have seen that, in hindsight.
He could be reeling with his own questions, like “what if we did do it and she completely fell apart after?” and “how many other girls had regrets?”
Joe did everything right, when Liz changed her mind he accepted it, he didn’t pleasure her, or recriminate her for changing her mind. The one thing he did wrong, was ignore his instincts that told him it wasn’t going to turn out well. I gained more respect for Joe from this, though I understand why he’s depressed about it.
I feel like I’m the only person who doesn’t like Dina. As a Japanese-American person on the spectrum, her characterization has always bothered me. But maybe that’s just me. Seems like other people find her endearing. I just…don’t.
She’s not “endearing” to me, she’s not a puppy, she’s someone who appears strange and weird and childish and off-putting and not once is anyone who treats her this way proven in the right.
The series itself treats Dina with respect, and then respects her enough for her to recognize she’s not comfortable with the person she is at the moment, so she makes efforts in new situations even when she feels like she can’t handle them, she just tries her best at the pace she can handle. She lives with a developmental disorder, it does impact her life, she’s not this uwu perfect smol bean where undiagnosed ASD does nothing or is god forbid some kind of superpower, she just goes out and lives and grows and finds validation in the people she loves and trusts.
Where on earth does Dina indicate she’s not comfortable with the person she is at the moment? She indicates a willingness to change when OTHER people tell her she needs to (to a limited extent) and discomfort when other people get on her about things, but she hasn’t so far shown a burning desire or inclination to change or shown any of the self-reproach many other characters do. She’s one of the least neurotic people about who she is in the comic.
I’m glad you find Dina to be a relatable character; I just don’t haha.
Yeah, no, I definitely remembered that and still don’t think that one example of self-deprecation indicates an ongoing discomfort with herself. In that instance, she was referring to “being her” in a very specific context. It’s good on her as a person that she has tried to rectify this very particular thing (i.e. “not being very stern”, which isn’t even a spectrum trait tbh) but it doesn’t seem to cause her any ongoing problems or internal conflict. She changed this without seeming to have any trouble doing so and she is, to all indications so far, quite fine now.
Well, no, she’s not particularly neurotic in comparison to other characters but that’s not really hard.
But she’s been concerned that others view her as strange, Sarah needled her over her lack of contractions, she felt embarrassed that Roz’s younger sister thought they were the same age, she was overwhelmed at Joyce’s dorm party and had to distance herself from taking too many people in at once so she started talking to Becky, whereupon she got furious with the others when they judged Becky for flirting with her, because they perceived flirting with Dina as strange and wrong.
She’s uncomfortable with her existing social limitations, but she’s not uncomfortable in challenging them.
She doesn’t feel like a real person. There are quite a few in the comic who don’t, but Dina is a strange mix of comic relief and… I dunno.. unplausible traits.
I am really curious what exactly about Dina feels unplausible. Is it the special interest in dinosaurs? Like…why would that be unplausible. Folks on the spectrum have all kinds of special interests, and dinosaurs feels like a pretty natural one. Dinosaurs are something kids tend to be interested in, Dina has retained that interest well into adulthood and it has matured along with her into a deep appreciation for science.
Yeah, I agree. I think for me it goes back to Willis claiming he’s based a lot of her traits on his own (a middle-aged American white guy) and it’s REALLY evident to me that Dina is developed from this lens.
Not that there’s anything wrong with being a middle-aged American white guy in itself. But it’s a really skewed lens to develop a young Japanese-American woman from. The impact culture AND gender AND being on the spectrum – and most of all, how all those things interact with and affect one another – has on such a person’s upbringing can’t be overstated. Dina’s characterization kinda doesn’t seem like it takes those things into consideration. To me, anyway, as someone from her actual demographic.
Yeah. Humans who will be perceived by the world in entirely different ways and have very different life experiences that will shape how they see and interact with the world in vastly different ways. But thanks for playing!
It’s been my general experience that people are people, more alike than different. Your reality may be different. No-one says you have to like Dina as a character (or at least I don’t). It’s the implication that Willis shouldn’t be writing a certain category of character because they aren’t that category of person that I find problematic.
I haven’t known anyone like Dina, but I’ve known several people who were a bit like Dina.
Where did I imply that Willis shouldn’t be writing a certain category of character? And even if I was, shouldn’t someone OF a demographic be able to at least voice discomfort with how their demographic is being portrayed by someone outside of that demographic – especially someone with a lot of relative societal privilege and displaying blatant blind spots – without being “Well-actually”ed by folks like you?
True but being a Japanese-American doesn’t make you an expert on Dina’s experiences. I’m an African American person and guess what. My cousin in California deals with different shit than me. My friends in Atlanta deal with different shit than me, My friends a block away deal with different shit with me and a lot of the blanket issues that effect black people MAY or MAY NOT apply to me. I don’t like it when people act like their experience is the end all be all of how a person/character should be and yes I find it frustrating.
It’s one thing to say “I don’t like this character and I can’t relate to her” but it is quite another to start using your culture as a way to talk down to people outside of it. It’s a pretty damning accusation and a harmful one that makes it harder for people to relate to people who aren’t like them.
We’re all trapped in our own perspective. We ALL have blind spots, not just culturally, not just across gender lines or queer lines. Not just through environment, mental health and wealth disparity. But no two people’s experiences are gonna be universal even within these subgroups and I’m sick of having to pretend that they are. There’s TWINS who grow up completely different. If you’ve got some issues with Dina’s behavior, fine, lay ’em on me, I might even agree. But pulling that “oh he’s a middle aged white guy, he wouldn’t know nothing bout that” garbage is…ugh…
Where did I say “he wouldn’t know nothing bout that”? I’m not talking down to anyone. How is pointing out that being a white guy with a lot of societal privileges from a totally different demographic he’s trying to portray has blind spots – and that those blind spots are showing – talking down to him. I suspect you’re letting your attachment to Dina and the comic cloud your ability to actually understand where I’m coming from.
No, it’s because, as a member of “the black community” I find it frustrating when the way I feel about something isn’t part of the conversation. All of my life it’s been about how I don’t talk black, or listen to black music, or act black. It’s particularly frustrating for me when people treat me like I’m part of a cultural island only to not respect me when I don’t conform to those beliefs or actions. It wasn’t until recently I had a word to put that to. “Imposter Sydrome”. And I get a little defensive when people criticize a character for not being “authentic” cuz often times they’re speaking from their personal experience and treating that as a universal experience. And as a non-traditional “black guy” I find it frustrating when other people speak for me.
It’s not that I’m attached to Dina, per se. I honestly wouldn’t care if she vanished from the narrative entirely if that’s what he chose to do. I’ve taken a breath and reexamined what you say and while I don’t completely disagree with your point, I can’t say I fully agree with it either. Privelage is a spectrum. And some issues that effect people within certain groups do not effect all of us. If you’ve got some personal experiences you think could be helpful towards fleshing out Dina’s character I think that’d be neat. But as an artist who likes to put elements of myself into my characters, and whom has a lot of characters that are…y’know…not at all like me. It really rubs me the wrong way when people throw my identity in my face. Or in anyone’s face.
I like discussing our differences and talking about it but the “oh you’ve got too many privileges to get this” attitude rubs me all sorts of the wrong way. I appreciate talking about characters with people who’s lives are similar to theirs but I don’t like having it thrown in my face how good I have it and how my characters are wrong. Might as well make every character exactly like me. Or not create at all. Or hire a team of writers of every demographic so we can cover all our bases.
It’s whatever though. Me not agreeing with you won’t change anything. Willis doesn’t mind and at this point I’m just taking the accusation personally because I don’t like these kinds of debasing identity politics. It’s fine to have an issue with Dina. I just don’t like the kinds of arguments you were making, that’s all.
So like, it’s frustrating when people don’t take your Very Specific And Different experiences as a black person into account, but fuck MY feelings about how MY Very Specific And Different Experiences as an autistic Japanese-American into account? Do you even hear yourself right now?
Y’know what I’m not gonna argue with you. I think your experiences matter. I think ALL of our experiences matter and I think that we shouldn’t use our experiences to talk down to others. But I will admit that not only did I not phrase my stance in a very fair way to you, but I will admit everyone has been a bit aggressive and defensive to ya.
I don’t wanna fight, I legit don’t. I had no issue with most of your early statements, it’s just that some of the later ones really rubbed me the wrong way. And that’s got more to do with my personal experience with people shitting on characters similar to me and saying “no black person acts like this”. It feeds into my imposter syndrome. And I was projecting a bit. I definitely lost the point myself in the argument though. Got a bit heated. And since I’m not the only one arguing it probably felt like a dogpile so I’ll apologize for that.
I actually agree with Cliff, that trying to stereotypically depic somebody primarily as a member of their demographic is not a great idea. We are in deed people (humans) first and foremost. Any kind of “women are from Venus, Men are from Mars” BS will just lead to tired, stupid stereotypes.
Dina still feels like a caricature to me. She’s too cutesy-poo and too extreme in her traits, rather than a believable human being.
@Adept:
I don’t think what you’re saying is relevant to the nuanced point Wendy is making here. They are definitely not saying that Dina needs to correspond to a “stereotypical” autistic Asian woman, whatever that means.
I quote, because I think what they say is actually very clear: “The impact culture AND gender AND being on the spectrum – and most of all, how all those things interact with and affect one another – has on such a person’s upbringing can’t be overstated. Dina’s characterization kinda doesn’t seem like it takes those things into consideration. To me, anyway, as someone from her actual demographic.”
That’s not at all the same as saying there’s a single way to portray a person with these characteristics, or that they should be “depicted primarily as a member of their demographic”, or as a stereotype.
Like, come on. Wendy is a Japanese American fem on the spectrum, of course they don’t want the DoA character that is the most like them to be a stereotype. That much shouldn’t need to be spelled out.
I mean maybe she’s too busy with her interests to take seriously this idea of being Japanese American and the cultural identity that would entail. I’ve met plenty of Japanese Americans, including my own cousins actually, who are very much the same way.
I definitely don’t think of myself as an expert on the Japanese American experience, but maybe it’s worthwhile to consider that Dina doesn’t really think of herself in terms of that racial/cultural identity. I mean, this kind of passive choice not to identify with it is definitely by no means exclusive to Japanese Americans.
Wendy, you are making yourself a gate keeper and absolute authority here. Your personal lived experience is valid, but it doesn’t mean it’s the only one out there.
Speaking from in-canon and not using that extra-canon detail for now…
I’ve always assumed, based on the few times we’ve seen them, that one or possibly both of Dina’s parents are also autistic. And I wonder if that may have helped protect her from a lot of the backlash you get growing up autistic? My source for this is my husband, who grew up with two other autistic siblings and an autistic parent. Though he was definitely still affected by growing up non-neurotypical, his family definitely developed a family culture that was influenced by the majority of them being autistic. One sibling sits in a way considered ‘weird’ by outsiders but is normal to everyone at home. All three siblings randomly jog around the house to stim haha. But I assume growing up in that slightly protective environment is fairly… rare?
I will also add that my husband was raised as female but AFAIK doesn’t particularly feel like that influenced him…? If anything, he feels like he missed out on gendered cues entirely and doesn’t ‘get’ gender at all.
Unfortunately I can’t personally comment on the part about being Japanese-American; though I actually grew up outside of the US myself, it was somewhere in Europe. So not really comparable to being visibly of Asian descent in America haha
Anyway, I’m not sure *exactly* what about her characterization is bothering you, I just wanted to throw one thing out there that might make her come off as inauthentically written, but that I have seen play out in real life. Or maybe that extra-canon detail (that an AMAB white writer wrote her) really is a dealbreaker for you. And, I mean, if that’s the case, then that’s fine? You don’t HAVE to like or identify with Dina LOL. I don’t particular identify with every trans character.
Both your parents being autistic – speaking from my own experiences here – doesn’t shield you from the effects of OTHER people and their treatment of you, especially at school, shaping who you are.
Unless Dina was homeschooled. In fact, the only way I see Dina’s characterization making any sense is if she WAS homeschooled. Again, this kinda goes back to the overall off-ness of Willis basing Dina so much on a white American guy experience and just not having much background on how Asian-American women are socialized (I’m assuming he was homeschooled; I could be wrong on this).
So yeah this “real life” you’ve seen “play out” isn’t really a good comparison here.
I mean… I know of other people who have hurt my husband, badly, because of him being autistic. Trust me, I’m not trying to downplay that people outside your family shape who you are and how you interact with the world. (I’m also non-neurotypical and queer so I’ve seen that effect on myself, I just didn’t bring it up before because I’m not autistic specifically.)
I’m sorry my comment was irrelevant and unhelpful. That probably sounds sarcastic, but I promise I do actually really mean that.
And I appreciate your thoughtful response in kind!
Really glad to see your feedback got to the author themself, too. 😀 That’s far more productive than non-DOA-authors like me sitting around speculating, haha.
‘I will also add that my husband was raised as female but AFAIK doesn’t particularly feel like that influenced him…? If anything, he feels like he missed out on gendered cues entirely and doesn’t ‘get’ gender at all.’
Hope this doesn’t come across as rude but I don’t understand what you mean by this.
He’s trans! He’s nonbinary but goes by he/him because picking a binary pronoun is easier societally LOL. By ‘he was raised female’ I mean he was AFAB and raised with feminine societal expectations in mind.
When I read this comic I try to imagine it as if it was real life, because so much of it is based on real life
So I think how I would react to these characters if I actually met them and here we have Dina climbing all over someone which is (I’m guessing) supposed to be portrayed as cute or endearing whereas to me its like ‘what are you doing you crazy person’ or the ol’ ‘say something wrong about dinosaurs and get leaped on’
I’m thinking I might just be taking the comic a bit too seriously
I try to keep in mind “this is Comic People in Comic World” about these characters which is probably why I cut characters like, say, Mike some slack haha. So it’s not so much what Dina does in itself to me, though I agree that as a real person she’d probably be pretty annoying. (But people on the autistic spectrum are often annoying without meaning to be, to both neurotypical people and to each other, so the annoyingness checks out.)
I think the thing for me is that WHEN an Asian-American girl acts out in this way, the backlash in real life is pretty different (and very extreme) from what Dina experiences in the comic. This would have shaped a lot of how she socializes and even how she expresses her interests. She’s kind of free and open about these things in ways that are more in line with how white guys on the spectrum are typically allowed/accepted to be. If that makes sense.
I would say, for example, that Joyce and Amber are pretty on-point depictions of women on the spectrum. They’re very different people, but the anxieties and neuroses they have from a lifetime of people expecting them to act in certain ways against their natural inclinations are there for both. And coming from the extremely specific demographic Dina falls into – Japanese-American girl on the spectrum – it bothers me that there’s so little about this one super rare instance of “someone like me” that’s relatable, when I feel like all the other characters are so well done.
I hope that makes sense! I’m not trying to argue anything in this particular comment haha, more just trying to explain more fully how I feel about this.
I don’t really need you to understand, people are all so different it’s going to be impossible to always understand one another. It’s enough that you’ve listened and haven’t tried to invalidate what I’m saying.
Wait, so you’re NOT intentionally writing those characters with that label in mind?
If so, I actually find that pretty soothing. Besides advocating for the “traits not labels” when it comes to writing, I’ve had a lifetime’s worth of awful experiences because of that label in particular. 😣
We all engage in binary thinking from time to time. It’s not an ASD thing — it’s a human thing. Same goes for fixation of interests.
Well, my parents and brothers told me I had black and white thinking because of “autism” and stigmatized me for it, even though they engaged in plenty of it themselves…
See, this is why I bothered saying anything at all – because I’ve seen over time how you thoughtfully take critique on your portrayal of other groups and I have trust in you as a writer to take seriously what someone from a demographic you’re trying to portray is saying about that portrayal. I do appreciate that a lot.
In fairness, I think Dina’s characterization is kinda “set” at this point in the comic, though I’ve noticed over time nuance (her issues in her relationship with Becky for instance) and I want to acknowledge that. But it would be weird to suddenly drastically change up how she’s been established in the comic. So I don’t expect some huge overhaul and wouldn’t fault you for there not being one. I’m more saying all this in the hopes that Dina can be developed with a bit more cultural/societal consideration in the future, and to maybe give some feedback for possible future projects.
I love Dumbing of Age. I read every update every day as soon as it goes live. I think your characters are wonderful; Dina’s just kind of been my sticking point since I first started reading. And it IS because it’s so rare to see a character from my own extremely specific demographic – and I really want to be able to celebrate that. If I had no interest in liking Dina or how she was written, I just wouldn’t bother saying anything.
I also wouldn’t bother saying anything if I felt like you’d be dismissive or dig in your heels about this stuff. That’s to your massive credit.
At the end of the day, I really appreciate being heard, your indication that you’re listening. It means a lot to me as a reader and as someone who’s followed this comic since, hell – since I was in the same stage of life as these characters. So thank you.
Without trying to say TOO much, I do already have some things with cultural/societal consideration re:Dina in the future, specifically the next storyline I’m set to write, so like, check this space in like six months I guess???
Well I appreciate your opinions on this fictional character that you have so much in common with wendy, thank you for sharing them. Do you have any examples in mind of English-language media where that Japanese-american autistic experience has felt more relatable or recognisable to you?
Joe probably knows, intellectually, that “I almost ruined myself forever” didn’t apply to him personally, only to having impersonal sex. But when that part of his brain says “it’s not personal” (as Liz might if she were asked) it’s still damn hard not to take it personally.
i feel bad for him.
he’s basically been told that he was a poison, that he would have tainted whatshername for the rest of her life.
that sh*t has to hurt.
lets have s*x
“okay”
“no, wait stop”
“ok”
“i would be tainted for the rest of my life if i had sex with you”
“…”
While he might be hearing that, I don’t think that’s at all what Liz meant. She thinks that having sex at all – at least at this point, would have ruined her. That’s the fundie programming, not anything about Joe. It’s “I wasn’t ready”, not “sex with you”.
I doubt that specifically is what’s bothering Joe though. Not from that angle of him specifically tainting her. More that he would have hurt her by having sex with her when she wasn’t really ready and he either could tell that she wasn’t really ready but was going ahead anyway or would have been able to tell if he hadn’t been so hung up on Joyce and on using Liz to get over her rather than paying attention to Liz herself.
I came to this strip because of Dina, immediately after she made an appearance in Questionable Content. I have a friend so like Dina that it is scary: petite asian, over-enunciates, hyper-focused, reclusive by nature with bursts of boldness. I’m one of the few people my friend relates closely to at all (perhaps the only non-family male), and while I’m totally in love with her, I always keep my distance at a level she can tolerate.
It’s weird how a comic strip character can influence an IRL friendship. While my friend has different quirks than Dina (obviously…), things that could easily be annoying or frustrating I instead find to be adorable and endearing. My friend feels that, which in turn makes her carefree around me, less socially apprehensive.
Which, for me, feels like the sun coming out, warming me through-and-through. Sure, I’d love a closer relationship, but this one is so very precious, and is plenty good just as it is.
I want to add that my heart broke when Dina entered a relationship. I may have been over-identifying Dina with my friend, and romance is something so far from her at present. But I so want this for her, with anyone she chooses, and I find I don’t much care if it’s with me or not.
While I was cheering for Dina, I was also a little sad for my friend. Though I’ve known my friend for a decade, I have no clue what her sexual orientation is, or even if she has one at all. She likes being a woman, but expresses no physical attraction, or any desire for romance.
Dina continues to evolve as a comic character, but my friend can’t yet follow a similar path. Sigh.
Down to 65 votes shy of Girl Genius. So progress. Go to the DOA voting gateway, find where it says “select the character in the image,” and click on the name that corresponds to the name that appears over the character and click vote. Easy Peasy. https://www.topwebcomics.com/vote/26902
Loading ...
I feel like Dina’s trying to
mountclimb Joe because he’s thereany mountain in a molehill
She’s defeeted him
Oh, I assumed this was basically a raptor attack, but she got tangled in the shirt, seeing how she doesn’t have claws to actually rip into Joe’s flesh. I mean, maybe it still is. Lets see if she goes for the jugular in the next one.
If she were performing a realistic raptor attack, she would be jumping on his back, holding on by her feet claws(?), flapping her arms for balance and using her mouth to eat away/do extra harm.
It’s called RPR (Raptor Prey Restrain) and that’s how modern birds of prey hunt. That’s inferred on dromeosaurs (dinosaur raptors) because of their relatively closeness and their anatomy being consistent with the behavior.
Naw. Dina’s just checking out his haunted look. We’re finally getting our hallowe’en special!
Always keepin promises, that Dina.
*plays “The Look Of Love” on the hacked Muzak*
Hmmm… I’d’ve gone with: I’m a “Monster Mash”.
I’m glad he’s taking this well.
I want to have intense uninterrupted eye contact with Dina.
Me too bro!
I was going to suggest that both of you set aside money in your wills for the shovel Becky will buy to bury you with, but then I remembered she’s not poor anymore.
No, she’s just not destitute anymore. She’s still poor, and in the current political climate she’s going to be poor probably forever.
I don’t, but then I’d rather not have intense uninterrupted eye contact with anyone. I’ve never been good at eye contact.
“Performative” is the key word there. You’re adding to much substance to this Dina.
So Liz suddenly backing out of sex is really getting to him? Or is what she said that is getting to him?
Definitely the latter. He doesn’t want to make Joyce feel ruined. Guess he can never have a real connection!
Probably a bit of column A and a bit of column B.
There’s this saying I’ve heard a few times.
“Just go for it, the worst thing she can say is no”
“Ew.”
I mean the idea that just that a girl would consider having sex with you as actually ruining herself is pretty insulting. No offense to Liz…actually no a little offense to Liz. Sex is a two way street and Joe deserved a little more respect than that. Both partners have to be considerate.
Yeah, but I don’t think Liz meant that sex with Joe in particular would ruin her forever, as much as she meant sex with anyone that she didn’t love.
Anyone she didn’t love and wasn’t heterosexually, monogamously married to in the correct form of Christian ceremony.
You can take the Christian out of the girl, but no a lot of the time you really can’t. Those shitty ideas embedded into you as a child just stay there.
Seems a little pessimistic, don’t you think?
Brainwashing has been and still is being undone with all kinds of people, from all kinds of groups.
Sure, but it takes a long while to work through all of it. And these kids are just starting.
Now, if only there were a way to work through it that doesn’t seem like, you know, work.
What if it were made fun somehow?
Believe me, I hung on to a lot of weird ideas long after I became an atheist, they just became recontextualized. It wasn’t until I became a very close friend with a pagan who was willing to talk to me about it that I began to re-examine the nature of some of my beliefs.
Woo!
Pagan visibility! Respect!
Wooooo!
**runs off going “Wo” some more**
What she meant is inconsequential to Joe’s feelings.
Yeah, that’s true.
Wonder how he’ll come to realize that he’s not destined to be some kind of abominable sex monster.
Wonder if.
Yeah, but it’s still a harsh thing to say *to Joe*.
Like, yes, she was in a scary spot, and I have empathy for her. But I also have empathy for Joe. And that situation was more on Liz than on him, even though yes, he could have read the signals.
I dont even think she was saying it to Joe so much as herself and Joe was just within earshot
Of course that’s effectively the same as if she had said it to Joe so I guess I’m just splitting hairs
Turns out even horndogs have feelings.
It’d be like if I requested a favor from my friend and then halfway through I said “actually y’know what, nevermind. I don’t want you to fuck it up.”
Like you’re always welcome to change your mind but there is a less dickish way to put that.
To me it read like she didn’t consider Joe as someone worthy of love. Like sleeping with him would taint her because she didn’t think for even a second he was someone she could fall in love with. He was just a guy who wanted sex. At least I wouldn’t be surprised if Joe took it like that. It kind of feels like he was really used in that situation. More so even than when he banged Malaya.
It wasn’t about Joe, it was about her own sexual hangups. She wanted to have sex with him to assert herself from her upbringing and peers at her campus, except sex is still this big scary thing to her. She wants to have sex, the act of sex has meaning to her, but she’s still inundated in what she was told to think about sexual purity.
it’s surprising how little that matters when you get rejected by someone saying that being with you would have “ruined [them] forever”. That’s some serious pain.
Yeah, Liz probably didn’t mean him in particular, but that’s still how he took it, isn’t it?
If only there were a way for him to clear up that misunderstanding!
Yeah, she certainly didn’t mean it that way. There was nothing specific about it being Joe that meant she’d be ruined, it was that she was doing it at all. (In her mind, of course.)
And honestly, I don’t think that part really bothered Joe. I don’t think it was the rejection, but that he’s seeing this as another way that girls can be hurt by his approach to sexuality, even when he’s following his own rules. And of course that she’s his Joyce substitute just makes it worse.
It would reinforce his self-conception that he cannot have a real connection with a woman because he would be doomed to abandon her, I suspect. Without knowing it Liz basically told Joe his worst fears about himself are true.
More I think that he can hurt women without abandoning them. Which was what Joyce pointed out to him over the list, but now he sees himself as having come close to hurting Liz as well.
Lets stress, though, that Joe did not hurt Liz. This was Liz’s mistake to make. What’s hurting Joe seems to be that he thinks it would be on some level his fault, that he’s inherently destructive to women.
(The issues of “Joe had a hunch she was being reckless”, “Joe didn’t actually want to have sex but didn’t have the words to express that”, and “Liz was kind of using Joe as an object and not considering his feelings in this because she’s still new to being an ethical slut” are also important. It’s a messy situation. But you never blame your partner for you not understanding your own limits.)
But you likely blame yourself.
The harm was minimized because Liz pulled back in time, but he’s likely thinking about what if she hadn’t and still thought she was ruined afterwards. (And: Have any of the other girls felt that way afterwards without me knowing? Is that how it would be with Joyce?)
On the abstract moral level of blame, he did nothing wrong, but on an emotional level for anyone with a degree of empathy knowing that sleeping with you “ruined” them is going to mess you up.
And this ties back to Joe’s basic conflict – his whole thing is his flawed attempt to avoid hurting women like his father did. Now he sees another way his plan to avoid that by keeping sex casual might have failed.
All these earnest takes and all I can do is resist making the dick joke you set up.
Jeez, yeah. That’s about the most dickish way to put that.
I’m just going to yoink that succinct version of the blizzard of doubts that goes through my mind after I think “just ask her out”…
Yes, but “No” is really, REALLY bad, you see. I’d actually prefer it if they called me a stinky, smelly pile of garbage and kicked me in the nuts – I could at least interpret that as them playing hard-to-get.
I think the speculation that Joyce would feel the same as Liz is getting to him.
feels like kind of a stretch either way.it aint like he didnt read the label
Knowing something might happen is the same as being able to handle it if it does.
Joe tried to fuck his way out of having feelings for Joyce by diving back into the situation he thinks is the only thing he’s good at: casual sex with a stranger.
Then Liz (who is Not-Joyce) freaks out and starts festering in her own sexual guilt complex, except Joe’s hearing her say “I almost ruined myself forever” and processing it as a condemnation of himself, that he not only cannot be emotionally available to other people and Joyce in particular, he can’t even try to turn back to who he used to be without being told sex with him is a permanent mistake.
Geez when you put it like that is sounds like that whole interaction was really fucked up for everyone. The moral of this story? Don’t have sex or try to have sex ever!
Sex is bad. Nothing good has ever come from having sex. And trust me, lots of things have come from having sex.
Sexual reproduction was a mistake.
Mitosis or gtfo
Or, to be a little less cynical, maybe rushing into sex isn’t necessarily the best way to get past your hangups about sex.
“Ruined forever” is a thing you say about your favourite toy companies when Optimus Primal comes with guns instead of swords, not your genitals.
If Optimus Primal comes after your genitals, does it really matter if it’s with swords or guns?
The way I read it; Joe is very careful about consent. He knew, or realized, when she said what she said, that doing it with Liz would’ve been taking advantage of her. And he was blinded by this fact by his want to get Joyce out of his head.
Also, when danny gets sexiled he comments that it hasn’t been a thing for a long time, so I’m betting this joyce-thing has been something Joe’s been struggling with for a while. And now it almost lead to this… he’s probably a mess!
Joe’s whole brand was tied up in no-strings-attached sex because that way no one got hurt and he wasn’t a monster like his father. Now he’s realizing sex without an emotional connection can cause regret. His world-view is shattered.
Oh hover text, he wouldn’t be the only one, whoops
He was looking forward to it.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/lunchlunch/
I’m glad you didn’t forget, thank you <3
Joe’s obviously not in best form right now. It’s one thing to do it at all, but it’s just unsportsmanlike to hit a man in Joe’s condition in the face with a brick joke.
Less of a brick joke and more of a Chekov’s performative eye contact.
Would Dina give performative eye contact with someone who was blind? Or had to wear sunglasses?
I suspect that removes the pressure somewhat. It’s performative because other people expect it of you, after all.
As someone with S.A.D., I know the feeling. And I’ll say, it’s not a good one.
Please accept an appropriate expression of support as social situations have the added element of a pandemic setting. Hasn’t done my various diagnoses a bit of good. I hope you’re doing well.
Mine usually takes the form of wanting to hibernate but impostor syndrome and intrusive voices sometimes also crop up to try to sabotage me…
Dina likely would only perform eye contact for people also capable of seeing it. The point of performing it is that it is a reciprocal thing. If the blind person is capable of reciprocating and has enough vision to, she would. If they are fully blind or wearing sunglasses then one of you can’t see the eyes of the other so you cannot reciprocate or guarantee established eye contact which would render it a pointless endeavor.
As someone who feels similarly to Dina about eye contact (but I force myself to do it a lot), I can confirm I would not make eye contact with a blind or vision impaired person, but I would be sure to turn my face directly to them while talking since that is the equivalent. I wear tinted glasses and it makes eye contact a lot easier for me.
When the promise was made
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/lunchlunch/
The hero we need.
Oh thank you.
Also, another good moment with Joe. “Already trying to forget it.” Absolutely.
Hopefully this nonsense won’t be harder to forget. I’m actually saying, “oof, poor Joe” and meaning it.
I completely forgot about that promise. Looks like Joe forgot too.
She’s really gripping him for that eye contact. Really just holding him hostage with her gaze.
(also with her claws)
(also her clause)
Not to mention both feet in his belly. I didn’t notice at first.
Rapor style.
… RAPTOR STYLE, damn it.
Don’t parody Gagnam Style, don’t parody Gagnam Style, don’t….
EEEEYYYYYYYYY Sexy Prey-dies
O O O O Oppa Raptor Style!
Nice callback. I did not expect that line to hold this sort of plot relevance.
Joe out here pondering if he was put on this earth just to ruin lives.
I know that feel.
“Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die.”
— Morty Smith
Honestly the most assuring words in the universe.
Dina Awareness Week
Joe is really disappointing all the ladies today, huh?
(Unfair, I know. He behaved exactly as Liz expected. But I bet he feels like a disappointment)
You can absolutely meet, or even exceed, all expectations and still disappoint. Whether or not you’ve disappointed someone has little, if anything, to do with their expectations of you.
Look, Joe, you need to give an hour’s notice to cancel an appointment. It’s in the terms of use.
Okay, gravitar roulette, what will it be today?
Cool! Liz is intriguing enough.
dammit how’d you get her
Capital letters and luck of the draw.
…damn, this might be the saddest I’ve ever seen Joe. The last few days have really gotten to him.
(to hovertext) Like you forgot that there was already a strip titled “Look”, Mr. Willis? ;P
It’s not uncommon for strips to share names with an earlier strip. There was a strip a few days ago that was the fourth time that name’d been used for a strip!
(Heck, even yesterday’s was the second time “Streaming” had been used as a strip title.)
Seriously though. Saw that the link was look-2 and now I’m like… is there a first look? If not, why does look-2 exist 🤔
These are the important questions I ponder in the small hours.
Look-1, since you’re curious: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/look/
I tip my hat to thee good being! May your questions always lead to knowledge and may your google searches never lead you to a cursed image (like that Furby that looks like it’s made out of baked beans O_O ).
Goes off to google “Furby that looks like it’s made out of baked beans.”
Did you enjoy yourself? I remember when I saw Hank Green with one *shivers in tripophobia*
If there was no dialogue and I didn’t know who these characters were I’d assume she was about to aggressively make out with Joe.
Dude, that was MY first impression within milliseconds of seeing the last panel!
Actions speak louder than words, I guess. Maybe it depends on the person.
I’d say thank you for putting that image in my brain, but I figure I might as well wait for you to put that image in my browser.
Actually, I’m putting a little something together of that very nature, except it’s not with Joe or Dina.
I love that Joe is so tall that Dina is literally using his Upper body to stand and she’s still in frame.
“Excuse me, but has my shirt suddenly become a doormat for everbody’s filthy shoes?”
No, just your heart and our metaphorical feet.
My boy is not okay right now.
this is fine, actually
i am okay with the events that are unfolding currently
See what Premarital sex do to you? Joe change into SCP!
Wait, which SCP are we talking about again?
96
OK, interesting, but I still don’t get the joke.
Or is me not getting it what’s supposed to be funny?
The shy guy. Doesn’t want to be looked at.
Ah yes, the exact opposite of Joe’s favorite number.
Nah, it’s the same thing, just mirrored upside down!
The kinky part is that they’re touching backs 0///0
Smart Connected Products. He makes decisions based on stimuli from many specialized sensors networked together. /sarcasm (I have no idea what this conversation is actually about.)
The SCP Foundation is a open creative writing project, which is about paranomal phenomena that is managed by the shadowy titular ficticious organisation (SCP stands for Special Containment Procedures). Creative writing works are usually about a paranormal phenomenon, and they’re all organised into cases. Go check out their wiki for more! https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/
If you like the vibe, Control is a game that’s heavily influenced by it.
Never expected someone talks about SCP. This is true chill.
Nobody ever expects the SCP. Their chief weapon is surprise.
Surprise and the paranormal. Their two chief weapons are …
You should probably go out and come in again.
Now i see i refer to scp game that is 9 year old.
How Do You Do, Fellow Kids?
If Joe was carrying any more guilt, he’d morph into a Catholic.
What, like a transformer or like an animorph?
I wonder if anything in particular triggered dina to engage in eye contact at this moment.
Did she sense Joe’s distress? A reaction to earlier interactions with Amber? Just thought it was time to fulfill her obligation for eye contact?
His slouch made his eye level slightly more accessible than usual, so she jumped on the opportunity.
Literally.
Oof Joe.
Has he never boned someone who regretted it before? I mean, I wuv himb, but it seems odd that he’s apparently been an Active Bonermeister for Some Time now, boning mainly ppl his age, who are ALL idiots- none of them regretted it? Or did he just not see their vulnerable-regret, rather their ‘fuk you’ regret later?
Or is it just cos Liz was standing in for Joyce that it got to him? Which, yes, fair.
but given his established issue with ruining people, it seems odd that This hasn’t come up before.
Anyway I wuv him, and i wuv Dina, who, damn Dina. Like, every austism spectrum character I can currently think of, including most irl ppl I know to be austic, have a real anxious self-doubt thing going on with shit like this. Dina just don’t care. Dina Fully prepared to risk weirdness. fukin luv Dina.
Um, just curious, are you using any particular definition of autism here?
Because I think the definition has changed over the years, and still varies a lot between different places, and I just wanna make sure I’m on the same page as you.
It’s a common fan theory that Dina has a mild Autism-spectrum disorder (most likely what used to be called Asperger Syndrome until the mid-2010s). She has the characteristic deep knowledge of a narrow subject matter, abnormal speech patterns, and blindness to nonverbal social cues.
I shared a lot of Dina’s idiosyncrasies, except that instead of Dinosaurs, it was Invader Zim and anything related (aleins, robots, programming, astrophysics, time-travel, college-level electronics, etc), and instead of cereal, I was eating so many chicken nuggets and gold-fish that I might as well have been injecting them. I also had (and still have) most of Dina’s problems, including those about eye-contact.
Would you say that I have autism?
One paragraph is insufficient data to draw a conclusion from, but it’s possible. Do you have to expend mental energy to deliberately parse in-person, nonverbal communication?
I was diagnosed with AS in middle school (20+ years ago), and I see a lot of the kids with I’ve worked with over the years (and some of myself) in Dina.
Yes, it does take a lot out of me, and after a lot of it I get this sickening feeling in my head, like I’m nauseous without feeling anything in my stomach. One time, I even semi-passed out from that exhaustion like Dina did at that party that one time, and it was SUPER relatable.
I don’t really have a definitive grasp of asd, just that of an interested internet person who’s motivated in advance to not to be a dick to any austic ppl I meet /work with.
Might be worth adressing your experiences with a doctor/psych? If they’re causing you trouble /stress, at least.
Well, it’s just that, it’s peculiar for me to see people use the term like this
In any case, I prefer to think of myself (and consequently, Dina) as “socially challenged” instead of “autistic”, because personally, I strongly dislike that word.
He’s just that good.
They may well have regretted it and not let him know. If all of his sex has been casual, the only sign may have been that they didn’t come back for more.
If Liz hadn’t regretted it before really starting, but instead the day after she’d left campus, he’d have never known. Now he might be wondering how many others have.
I think talking with Dina will help Joe feel better. He looks like life has chewed him up and then spit him out.
He did change his shirt; I wondered how fast he’d grow to hate that thing.
Well it is the next day, i don’t think he’s messed up enough to not change clothes
He stayed up all night walking the halls while Liz slept in his bed.
Danny never noticed.
I am very curious where Liz went. Or stayed.
wow, he really took it hard as expected
All the way back in July:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/lunchlunch/
I think several hours ago in-universe.
Science class was at least a couple days ago in-comic. Yesterday was when Hurricane Liz made landfall and everybody skipped, and today has Joe dealing with the aftereffects.
Dina never forgets.
And that is good.
Dina remember me a parent I have, she is schyzo and have authism. After years of treatment, she is able to look into someone eyes, and sometimes have some empathy in figure out if if the another people is sad.
Great proress.
That’s nice of you, Dina, but I think he’s upset right now.
Did not have time to scroll through the previous 112 comments, so I’m sure this has already been said, but still:
I find myself wondering, did he not have sex with her, and now feels sad because he ‘let his father down’?
Did he have sex with her and now feels bad because it was the ‘wrong thing to do’ and feelz…
Did he have sex with her and it was aweful and now feel bad?
Oh Joe, you’re actually maturing and yes, feelz suck ass.
He didn’t have sex with her and is feeling extremely guilty that things went poorly even though it was through no fault of his own.
He didn’t have sex with her, Liz said that having sex with him would ruin her forever, and so he expectedly feels bad.
Joe and Liz did not have sex.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-12/01-sister-christian/ruined/
I don’t think he feels guilty at all about stopping (after all, she retracted consent and that’s kind of his thing), I think he feels guilty because he ignored his doubts and let it get to that point in the first place. She was play-acting the role of the person she thought she wanted to be, and he feels like he should have seen that, in hindsight.
He could be reeling with his own questions, like “what if we did do it and she completely fell apart after?” and “how many other girls had regrets?”
Joe did everything right, when Liz changed her mind he accepted it, he didn’t pleasure her, or recriminate her for changing her mind. The one thing he did wrong, was ignore his instincts that told him it wasn’t going to turn out well. I gained more respect for Joe from this, though I understand why he’s depressed about it.
You gotta schedule that into a timeslot that fits everyone’s schedule.
Dina’s going to need a grappling hook and a Sherpa if she wants to achieve height parity for performative eye contact.
I’d recommend a forklift license, adjustable height will definitely come in handy in the future.
Nah, you’re not supposed to ride on the forks.
The real fun is in boom lifts!
What’s a bottom lift [googles it] OH! Now we’ve got OPTIONS!
AH! I meant boom lifts, brain farted.
It IS quite dangerous to ride on the forks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJdrQXyfhnk
If you have a choice between riding the forks, the cell phones, or the spoons, you should always go for the spoons.
♫ He tried to kill me with a forklift! ♫
Huzzah!
Damn Joe is not doing so well.
He’s looking rather haunted.
He’s also changed from his Nice Guy shirt.
DoA Book 12: Don’t Look At Me!
Do raptor dinosaurs have that “paralyze prey with fear” power snakes are supposed to have?
I feel like I’m the only person who doesn’t like Dina. As a Japanese-American person on the spectrum, her characterization has always bothered me. But maybe that’s just me. Seems like other people find her endearing. I just…don’t.
Not Japanese, but I am on the spectrum.
She’s not “endearing” to me, she’s not a puppy, she’s someone who appears strange and weird and childish and off-putting and not once is anyone who treats her this way proven in the right.
The series itself treats Dina with respect, and then respects her enough for her to recognize she’s not comfortable with the person she is at the moment, so she makes efforts in new situations even when she feels like she can’t handle them, she just tries her best at the pace she can handle. She lives with a developmental disorder, it does impact her life, she’s not this uwu perfect smol bean where undiagnosed ASD does nothing or is god forbid some kind of superpower, she just goes out and lives and grows and finds validation in the people she loves and trusts.
Where on earth does Dina indicate she’s not comfortable with the person she is at the moment? She indicates a willingness to change when OTHER people tell her she needs to (to a limited extent) and discomfort when other people get on her about things, but she hasn’t so far shown a burning desire or inclination to change or shown any of the self-reproach many other characters do. She’s one of the least neurotic people about who she is in the comic.
I’m glad you find Dina to be a relatable character; I just don’t haha.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/complicit/
Because you aaaaaasssskkeeeddd.
Yeah, no, I definitely remembered that and still don’t think that one example of self-deprecation indicates an ongoing discomfort with herself. In that instance, she was referring to “being her” in a very specific context. It’s good on her as a person that she has tried to rectify this very particular thing (i.e. “not being very stern”, which isn’t even a spectrum trait tbh) but it doesn’t seem to cause her any ongoing problems or internal conflict. She changed this without seeming to have any trouble doing so and she is, to all indications so far, quite fine now.
Well, no, she’s not particularly neurotic in comparison to other characters but that’s not really hard.
But she’s been concerned that others view her as strange, Sarah needled her over her lack of contractions, she felt embarrassed that Roz’s younger sister thought they were the same age, she was overwhelmed at Joyce’s dorm party and had to distance herself from taking too many people in at once so she started talking to Becky, whereupon she got furious with the others when they judged Becky for flirting with her, because they perceived flirting with Dina as strange and wrong.
She’s uncomfortable with her existing social limitations, but she’s not uncomfortable in challenging them.
She doesn’t feel like a real person. There are quite a few in the comic who don’t, but Dina is a strange mix of comic relief and… I dunno.. unplausible traits.
I am really curious what exactly about Dina feels unplausible. Is it the special interest in dinosaurs? Like…why would that be unplausible. Folks on the spectrum have all kinds of special interests, and dinosaurs feels like a pretty natural one. Dinosaurs are something kids tend to be interested in, Dina has retained that interest well into adulthood and it has matured along with her into a deep appreciation for science.
No, it’s not the special interest in dinosaurs.
Yeah, I agree. I think for me it goes back to Willis claiming he’s based a lot of her traits on his own (a middle-aged American white guy) and it’s REALLY evident to me that Dina is developed from this lens.
Not that there’s anything wrong with being a middle-aged American white guy in itself. But it’s a really skewed lens to develop a young Japanese-American woman from. The impact culture AND gender AND being on the spectrum – and most of all, how all those things interact with and affect one another – has on such a person’s upbringing can’t be overstated. Dina’s characterization kinda doesn’t seem like it takes those things into consideration. To me, anyway, as someone from her actual demographic.
It’s almost as if Japanese American women and middle aged American white guys were both human.
Yeah. Humans who will be perceived by the world in entirely different ways and have very different life experiences that will shape how they see and interact with the world in vastly different ways. But thanks for playing!
Playing?
It’s been my general experience that people are people, more alike than different. Your reality may be different. No-one says you have to like Dina as a character (or at least I don’t). It’s the implication that Willis shouldn’t be writing a certain category of character because they aren’t that category of person that I find problematic.
I haven’t known anyone like Dina, but I’ve known several people who were a bit like Dina.
Where did I imply that Willis shouldn’t be writing a certain category of character? And even if I was, shouldn’t someone OF a demographic be able to at least voice discomfort with how their demographic is being portrayed by someone outside of that demographic – especially someone with a lot of relative societal privilege and displaying blatant blind spots – without being “Well-actually”ed by folks like you?
True but being a Japanese-American doesn’t make you an expert on Dina’s experiences. I’m an African American person and guess what. My cousin in California deals with different shit than me. My friends in Atlanta deal with different shit than me, My friends a block away deal with different shit with me and a lot of the blanket issues that effect black people MAY or MAY NOT apply to me. I don’t like it when people act like their experience is the end all be all of how a person/character should be and yes I find it frustrating.
It’s one thing to say “I don’t like this character and I can’t relate to her” but it is quite another to start using your culture as a way to talk down to people outside of it. It’s a pretty damning accusation and a harmful one that makes it harder for people to relate to people who aren’t like them.
We’re all trapped in our own perspective. We ALL have blind spots, not just culturally, not just across gender lines or queer lines. Not just through environment, mental health and wealth disparity. But no two people’s experiences are gonna be universal even within these subgroups and I’m sick of having to pretend that they are. There’s TWINS who grow up completely different. If you’ve got some issues with Dina’s behavior, fine, lay ’em on me, I might even agree. But pulling that “oh he’s a middle aged white guy, he wouldn’t know nothing bout that” garbage is…ugh…
To Yotomoe:
Where did I say “he wouldn’t know nothing bout that”? I’m not talking down to anyone. How is pointing out that being a white guy with a lot of societal privileges from a totally different demographic he’s trying to portray has blind spots – and that those blind spots are showing – talking down to him. I suspect you’re letting your attachment to Dina and the comic cloud your ability to actually understand where I’m coming from.
No, it’s because, as a member of “the black community” I find it frustrating when the way I feel about something isn’t part of the conversation. All of my life it’s been about how I don’t talk black, or listen to black music, or act black. It’s particularly frustrating for me when people treat me like I’m part of a cultural island only to not respect me when I don’t conform to those beliefs or actions. It wasn’t until recently I had a word to put that to. “Imposter Sydrome”. And I get a little defensive when people criticize a character for not being “authentic” cuz often times they’re speaking from their personal experience and treating that as a universal experience. And as a non-traditional “black guy” I find it frustrating when other people speak for me.
It’s not that I’m attached to Dina, per se. I honestly wouldn’t care if she vanished from the narrative entirely if that’s what he chose to do. I’ve taken a breath and reexamined what you say and while I don’t completely disagree with your point, I can’t say I fully agree with it either. Privelage is a spectrum. And some issues that effect people within certain groups do not effect all of us. If you’ve got some personal experiences you think could be helpful towards fleshing out Dina’s character I think that’d be neat. But as an artist who likes to put elements of myself into my characters, and whom has a lot of characters that are…y’know…not at all like me. It really rubs me the wrong way when people throw my identity in my face. Or in anyone’s face.
I like discussing our differences and talking about it but the “oh you’ve got too many privileges to get this” attitude rubs me all sorts of the wrong way. I appreciate talking about characters with people who’s lives are similar to theirs but I don’t like having it thrown in my face how good I have it and how my characters are wrong. Might as well make every character exactly like me. Or not create at all. Or hire a team of writers of every demographic so we can cover all our bases.
It’s whatever though. Me not agreeing with you won’t change anything. Willis doesn’t mind and at this point I’m just taking the accusation personally because I don’t like these kinds of debasing identity politics. It’s fine to have an issue with Dina. I just don’t like the kinds of arguments you were making, that’s all.
“I find it frustrating when the way I feel about something isn’t part of the conversation.”
OH REALLY.
So like, it’s frustrating when people don’t take your Very Specific And Different experiences as a black person into account, but fuck MY feelings about how MY Very Specific And Different Experiences as an autistic Japanese-American into account? Do you even hear yourself right now?
*fuck taking MY feelings about MY Very Specific And Different Experiences ass an autistic Japanese-American into account
is what I meant to write.
Y’know what I’m not gonna argue with you. I think your experiences matter. I think ALL of our experiences matter and I think that we shouldn’t use our experiences to talk down to others. But I will admit that not only did I not phrase my stance in a very fair way to you, but I will admit everyone has been a bit aggressive and defensive to ya.
I don’t wanna fight, I legit don’t. I had no issue with most of your early statements, it’s just that some of the later ones really rubbed me the wrong way. And that’s got more to do with my personal experience with people shitting on characters similar to me and saying “no black person acts like this”. It feeds into my imposter syndrome. And I was projecting a bit. I definitely lost the point myself in the argument though. Got a bit heated. And since I’m not the only one arguing it probably felt like a dogpile so I’ll apologize for that.
I actually agree with Cliff, that trying to stereotypically depic somebody primarily as a member of their demographic is not a great idea. We are in deed people (humans) first and foremost. Any kind of “women are from Venus, Men are from Mars” BS will just lead to tired, stupid stereotypes.
Dina still feels like a caricature to me. She’s too cutesy-poo and too extreme in her traits, rather than a believable human being.
@Adept:
I don’t think what you’re saying is relevant to the nuanced point Wendy is making here. They are definitely not saying that Dina needs to correspond to a “stereotypical” autistic Asian woman, whatever that means.
I quote, because I think what they say is actually very clear:
“The impact culture AND gender AND being on the spectrum – and most of all, how all those things interact with and affect one another – has on such a person’s upbringing can’t be overstated. Dina’s characterization kinda doesn’t seem like it takes those things into consideration. To me, anyway, as someone from her actual demographic.”
That’s not at all the same as saying there’s a single way to portray a person with these characteristics, or that they should be “depicted primarily as a member of their demographic”, or as a stereotype.
Like, come on. Wendy is a Japanese American fem on the spectrum, of course they don’t want the DoA character that is the most like them to be a stereotype. That much shouldn’t need to be spelled out.
You do know there have been Japanese and Japanese American paleontologists for centuries, right?
When did I say anything about her interest in paleontology???
I mean maybe she’s too busy with her interests to take seriously this idea of being Japanese American and the cultural identity that would entail. I’ve met plenty of Japanese Americans, including my own cousins actually, who are very much the same way.
Meeting “plenty of” Japanese-Americans doesn’t make you an expert on our experience.
I definitely don’t think of myself as an expert on the Japanese American experience, but maybe it’s worthwhile to consider that Dina doesn’t really think of herself in terms of that racial/cultural identity. I mean, this kind of passive choice not to identify with it is definitely by no means exclusive to Japanese Americans.
Maybe it’s worthwhile, to consider that I know much more about that experience than you do.
Wendy, you are making yourself a gate keeper and absolute authority here. Your personal lived experience is valid, but it doesn’t mean it’s the only one out there.
@Adept: RIP good faith. Take a breath, read through Wendy’s comments again. You’re arguing a straw man here.
Speaking from in-canon and not using that extra-canon detail for now…
I’ve always assumed, based on the few times we’ve seen them, that one or possibly both of Dina’s parents are also autistic. And I wonder if that may have helped protect her from a lot of the backlash you get growing up autistic? My source for this is my husband, who grew up with two other autistic siblings and an autistic parent. Though he was definitely still affected by growing up non-neurotypical, his family definitely developed a family culture that was influenced by the majority of them being autistic. One sibling sits in a way considered ‘weird’ by outsiders but is normal to everyone at home. All three siblings randomly jog around the house to stim haha. But I assume growing up in that slightly protective environment is fairly… rare?
I will also add that my husband was raised as female but AFAIK doesn’t particularly feel like that influenced him…? If anything, he feels like he missed out on gendered cues entirely and doesn’t ‘get’ gender at all.
Unfortunately I can’t personally comment on the part about being Japanese-American; though I actually grew up outside of the US myself, it was somewhere in Europe. So not really comparable to being visibly of Asian descent in America haha
Anyway, I’m not sure *exactly* what about her characterization is bothering you, I just wanted to throw one thing out there that might make her come off as inauthentically written, but that I have seen play out in real life. Or maybe that extra-canon detail (that an AMAB white writer wrote her) really is a dealbreaker for you. And, I mean, if that’s the case, then that’s fine? You don’t HAVE to like or identify with Dina LOL. I don’t particular identify with every trans character.
Both your parents being autistic – speaking from my own experiences here – doesn’t shield you from the effects of OTHER people and their treatment of you, especially at school, shaping who you are.
Unless Dina was homeschooled. In fact, the only way I see Dina’s characterization making any sense is if she WAS homeschooled. Again, this kinda goes back to the overall off-ness of Willis basing Dina so much on a white American guy experience and just not having much background on how Asian-American women are socialized (I’m assuming he was homeschooled; I could be wrong on this).
So yeah this “real life” you’ve seen “play out” isn’t really a good comparison here.
I mean… I know of other people who have hurt my husband, badly, because of him being autistic. Trust me, I’m not trying to downplay that people outside your family shape who you are and how you interact with the world. (I’m also non-neurotypical and queer so I’ve seen that effect on myself, I just didn’t bring it up before because I’m not autistic specifically.)
I’m sorry my comment was irrelevant and unhelpful. That probably sounds sarcastic, but I promise I do actually really mean that.
I wouldn’t say it was unhelpful. Even if I don’t agree with everything you’re saying, I appreciate your thoughtful response.
And I appreciate your thoughtful response in kind!
Really glad to see your feedback got to the author themself, too. 😀 That’s far more productive than non-DOA-authors like me sitting around speculating, haha.
‘I will also add that my husband was raised as female but AFAIK doesn’t particularly feel like that influenced him…? If anything, he feels like he missed out on gendered cues entirely and doesn’t ‘get’ gender at all.’
Hope this doesn’t come across as rude but I don’t understand what you mean by this.
He’s trans! He’s nonbinary but goes by he/him because picking a binary pronoun is easier societally LOL. By ‘he was raised female’ I mean he was AFAB and raised with feminine societal expectations in mind.
Hope that clears it up!
Ah ok thanks for that
” All three siblings randomly jog around the house to stim haha.”
Is that a real thing? My upstairs neighbor has been doing this repetitive indoor jogging thing for over a decade.
It is in his family, no idea how common it is LOL
No not just you.
Whatever it is about Dina is something I just don’t get.
Glad to finally hear I’m not the only one.
To be fair its probably me.
When I read this comic I try to imagine it as if it was real life, because so much of it is based on real life
So I think how I would react to these characters if I actually met them and here we have Dina climbing all over someone which is (I’m guessing) supposed to be portrayed as cute or endearing whereas to me its like ‘what are you doing you crazy person’ or the ol’ ‘say something wrong about dinosaurs and get leaped on’
I’m thinking I might just be taking the comic a bit too seriously
I try to keep in mind “this is Comic People in Comic World” about these characters which is probably why I cut characters like, say, Mike some slack haha. So it’s not so much what Dina does in itself to me, though I agree that as a real person she’d probably be pretty annoying. (But people on the autistic spectrum are often annoying without meaning to be, to both neurotypical people and to each other, so the annoyingness checks out.)
I think the thing for me is that WHEN an Asian-American girl acts out in this way, the backlash in real life is pretty different (and very extreme) from what Dina experiences in the comic. This would have shaped a lot of how she socializes and even how she expresses her interests. She’s kind of free and open about these things in ways that are more in line with how white guys on the spectrum are typically allowed/accepted to be. If that makes sense.
I would say, for example, that Joyce and Amber are pretty on-point depictions of women on the spectrum. They’re very different people, but the anxieties and neuroses they have from a lifetime of people expecting them to act in certain ways against their natural inclinations are there for both. And coming from the extremely specific demographic Dina falls into – Japanese-American girl on the spectrum – it bothers me that there’s so little about this one super rare instance of “someone like me” that’s relatable, when I feel like all the other characters are so well done.
I hope that makes sense! I’m not trying to argue anything in this particular comment haha, more just trying to explain more fully how I feel about this.
I don’t fully understand because we’re completely different people so my experiences are very different to yours but I do see where you’re coming from
Thanks
I don’t really need you to understand, people are all so different it’s going to be impossible to always understand one another. It’s enough that you’ve listened and haven’t tried to invalidate what I’m saying.
AMBER? dangit how many characters now have i unwittingly made autistic just by putting parts of myself in them
Wait, so you’re NOT intentionally writing those characters with that label in mind?
If so, I actually find that pretty soothing. Besides advocating for the “traits not labels” when it comes to writing, I’ve had a lifetime’s worth of awful experiences because of that label in particular. 😣
I definitely feel the fixation on interests and binary black/white thinking, but I’m unsure if the latter is an ASD thing or if that’s just me.
(my therapy was still being black/white, but just giving a lot more room for white than black)
We all engage in binary thinking from time to time. It’s not an ASD thing — it’s a human thing. Same goes for fixation of interests.
Well, my parents and brothers told me I had black and white thinking because of “autism” and stigmatized me for it, even though they engaged in plenty of it themselves…
Yeah but it’s all the time with me. I am not a compromising man, I don’t have much room for nuance when something seems real clear to me.
Interesting. Do you think your black-and-white thinking is from your ASD, or just a personal idiosyncrasy?
I only found out three years ago now, and then I got ADHD added to the cocktail.
On the plus side I think my depression went out for smokes in the last year, or maybe I was just misdiagnosed that whole time.
Yeah I can tell there’s a lot of overlap between all those.
This is a major reason why I dont like labels like those. They just lead to so much confusion and so many misunderstandings.
We are all people. We all have our traits and quirks. We all need a little help sometimes.
Only just now processing your initial question.
It’s interesting how you say that Wendy, because I relate with Dina A LOT, even though I’m not Japanese and (not?) on the spectrum?
You don’t see how this comment actually illustrates the problem here? If you don’t see it, you don’t see it. Shrug.
okay all you people trying to throw yourselves on swords to refute wendy’s thoughts, you are embarrassing me
it is INCREDIBLY POSSIBLE that i have fumbled something culturally, reaching almost certainty, so like
again, stop trying to play defense for me
you’re not going to win this and you will only look like dipshits
See, this is why I bothered saying anything at all – because I’ve seen over time how you thoughtfully take critique on your portrayal of other groups and I have trust in you as a writer to take seriously what someone from a demographic you’re trying to portray is saying about that portrayal. I do appreciate that a lot.
In fairness, I think Dina’s characterization is kinda “set” at this point in the comic, though I’ve noticed over time nuance (her issues in her relationship with Becky for instance) and I want to acknowledge that. But it would be weird to suddenly drastically change up how she’s been established in the comic. So I don’t expect some huge overhaul and wouldn’t fault you for there not being one. I’m more saying all this in the hopes that Dina can be developed with a bit more cultural/societal consideration in the future, and to maybe give some feedback for possible future projects.
I love Dumbing of Age. I read every update every day as soon as it goes live. I think your characters are wonderful; Dina’s just kind of been my sticking point since I first started reading. And it IS because it’s so rare to see a character from my own extremely specific demographic – and I really want to be able to celebrate that. If I had no interest in liking Dina or how she was written, I just wouldn’t bother saying anything.
I also wouldn’t bother saying anything if I felt like you’d be dismissive or dig in your heels about this stuff. That’s to your massive credit.
At the end of the day, I really appreciate being heard, your indication that you’re listening. It means a lot to me as a reader and as someone who’s followed this comic since, hell – since I was in the same stage of life as these characters. So thank you.
Without trying to say TOO much, I do already have some things with cultural/societal consideration re:Dina in the future, specifically the next storyline I’m set to write, so like, check this space in like six months I guess???
Well I appreciate your opinions on this fictional character that you have so much in common with wendy, thank you for sharing them. Do you have any examples in mind of English-language media where that Japanese-american autistic experience has felt more relatable or recognisable to you?
HAHA SHE SCALED HIM
IT’S FUNNY BECAUSE DINOSAURS HAVE SCALES
OR MAYBE FEATHERS
BUT SHE DIDN’T FEATHER HIM NVMD
You need more sugar. Here, have a cookie.
Dina for President.
Promises made.
Promises kept.
Joe probably knows, intellectually, that “I almost ruined myself forever” didn’t apply to him personally, only to having impersonal sex. But when that part of his brain says “it’s not personal” (as Liz might if she were asked) it’s still damn hard not to take it personally.
Oh dear. Joe doesn’t seem ok.
As odd as this may seem. Dina may exactly be the person needs to talk.
i feel bad for him.
he’s basically been told that he was a poison, that he would have tainted whatshername for the rest of her life.
that sh*t has to hurt.
lets have s*x
“okay”
“no, wait stop”
“ok”
“i would be tainted for the rest of my life if i had sex with you”
“…”
While he might be hearing that, I don’t think that’s at all what Liz meant. She thinks that having sex at all – at least at this point, would have ruined her. That’s the fundie programming, not anything about Joe. It’s “I wasn’t ready”, not “sex with you”.
I doubt that specifically is what’s bothering Joe though. Not from that angle of him specifically tainting her. More that he would have hurt her by having sex with her when she wasn’t really ready and he either could tell that she wasn’t really ready but was going ahead anyway or would have been able to tell if he hadn’t been so hung up on Joyce and on using Liz to get over her rather than paying attention to Liz herself.
I came to this strip because of Dina, immediately after she made an appearance in Questionable Content. I have a friend so like Dina that it is scary: petite asian, over-enunciates, hyper-focused, reclusive by nature with bursts of boldness. I’m one of the few people my friend relates closely to at all (perhaps the only non-family male), and while I’m totally in love with her, I always keep my distance at a level she can tolerate.
It’s weird how a comic strip character can influence an IRL friendship. While my friend has different quirks than Dina (obviously…), things that could easily be annoying or frustrating I instead find to be adorable and endearing. My friend feels that, which in turn makes her carefree around me, less socially apprehensive.
Which, for me, feels like the sun coming out, warming me through-and-through. Sure, I’d love a closer relationship, but this one is so very precious, and is plenty good just as it is.
I want to add that my heart broke when Dina entered a relationship. I may have been over-identifying Dina with my friend, and romance is something so far from her at present. But I so want this for her, with anyone she chooses, and I find I don’t much care if it’s with me or not.
While I was cheering for Dina, I was also a little sad for my friend. Though I’ve known my friend for a decade, I have no clue what her sexual orientation is, or even if she has one at all. She likes being a woman, but expresses no physical attraction, or any desire for romance.
Dina continues to evolve as a comic character, but my friend can’t yet follow a similar path. Sigh.
can you show the link to this page?
This is the most delightful and heart-warming thing I’ve read in the comments for a long time
Down to 65 votes shy of Girl Genius. So progress. Go to the DOA voting gateway, find where it says “select the character in the image,” and click on the name that corresponds to the name that appears over the character and click vote. Easy Peasy. https://www.topwebcomics.com/vote/26902
is this kind of site still works for raise aware to some Webcomic?
is these sites still exist in 21th century?
To be fair, alt-text, I had.
Now, Dina, disembowel him.
IT’s a rare instance with Joe’s face being so very close to a woman’s face and no one, absolutely no one, will think “a, so they may kiss” 😀
no one that know their characters, anyway
Hahha…
scroll upLike any good ol’ clever girl, Dina knows that the best moment for a predator like her to strike it’s prey is when it’s at it’s most vulnerable!
I’m starting to think none of these kids got trauma therapy…
Hey! I’m all caught up again. Woo hoo!
She’s SO SMOL ♥
Joe’s also pretty big.
I am paying attention because Dina’s head is onscreen!