nah, if a random passerby calls the cops for cartoon violence, the cops will ID everyone there, find out his Visa is invalid (since it was contingent on his grad school/student teaching at the college) and then he gets in trouble too. Jason is just being pragmatic here!
She said “is there even a word for that?” to Billie and then did learn there was indeed a word. The only other time she’s gotten close to talking about bisexuality was when she was insistent that Billie and Ruth were definitely still totes in love and she needed to dump Asher, but that was part of Becky’s weird plan to keep them apart, and more broadly isn’t really specific commentary on bisexuality.
Sooooo if I had to guess, I think Becky would view it more like “yeah you can date both, but date girls because they’re better,” and I don’t think that’d be as affable as she’d make it sound.
I think there’s a lot of things Becky feels sincerely but recognizes are unacceptable, hence the deliberate exaggeration to indicate that she knows she’s in the wrong and making a joke of it.
Which I get, I do the same thing, although generally about like film nitpicks or historical inaccuracies rather than core pillars of somebodies identity
it might have been assumed in the material. Leslie taught “Gender Studies” , studying how a person might exhibit attitudes, behaviors and characteristics based on their gender, and how those gender packages “roles” are societally constructed and also fluid depending upon situation. Also how those roles are both linked and separate from biology and sex.
I can see Sexual Orientation being discussed as a factor in a Gender role, but not necessarily convered in depth.
AND NOW consider that Leslie has to present her intended curriculum which needs to be accepted by the department head, probably overseen by the Dean who has to answer to a State Board of Trustees?
Welcome to higher Education in Indiana…
Sexual orientation is usually a part of gender studies – it’s a sub discipline called sexuality studies but it’s usually part and parcel of the subject. BUT whether or not you get much coverage of it in intro classes is a different matter. In my experience, those are generally based around examining gender and sometimes intersectionality with class and race. We know Leslie discussed some LGBT+ stuff, but I dunno if that was more general and not an in-depth discussion of bisexuality. The actual WORD probably came up at some point but that’s hardly a guarantee Joyce gets it.
There was hope that Joyce had made it through L & G to B already, and perhaps we’d get to T and her sister soon (see chapter one title). Will tomorrow Quell my worries?
Then again, this could be Willis having us on. (since he’s already pulled a bit between yesterday and today)
Not on-screen, but either she skipped a bunch of the reading in gender studies or Leslie is not very thorough at choosing the readings for her gender studies students
Also it would end Becky’s one-sided rivalry for her, and that’s what keeps Becky from getting bored. “Bored Becky” is a phrase kind of lights up the same synapses in my brain as “Dynamite Monkey”, so hopefully Dorothy knows to keep her invested.
For a comment I wrote yesterday supposing that she was inclined to dictate sexual morality to Ruth. But here she is disavowing any right or intention to do that.
And taking a pratfall over bisexual erasure…. Oh well. Baby steps….
I doubt it. Ruth is intimidating, but her actual femur collection is rather small. We have seen Joyce punch out a much larger person than herself and Ruth actually punch out, um, no one, though in fairness she did toss Jennifer around and by implication suplex Carol off panel.
Longer answer, she’s spent her entire life dealing in absolutes and not really thinking critically about things. What used to be a huge part of her beliefs and life has fairly abruptly been shattered and taken from her, and on top of being super angry and lashing out, said absolutes and lack of critical thought and introspection means she doesn’t realize she has not, on a fundamental level, actually abandoned the type of thinking that made those former beliefs bad and unhealthy.
She recently realized that she spent her whole life in what was essentially a cult. Said cult taught her to see the whole world in black and white. Having learned that some of the things it taught her were bad are actually good and some of the things it taught her were good are actually bad, she is now overgeneralizing that inversion of her parochial morality to most things.
She was taught that everyone has to be straight or go to Hell, but then learned some people are gay and it’s not bad? That means people who experience any same-sex attraction should always be in same-sex relationships and the only reason they wouldn’t be is fear of damnation.
She was taught that she should be kind and put others’ needs before her own, but then learned that it’s valuable to stand up for oneself and that the demure ideal she was encouraged to emulate left her and her peers vulnerable to exploitation? That means you should always put yourself before others or you’ll get stepped on.
She was taught that God is real and the righteous dead go to heaven and humans have souls and lives with intrinsic meaning, but then learned that none of the rationale she was given for believing those things holds up to scrutiny and that the faithful believers whom she was taught were morally good can be and often are bad and non-believers can be and often are good? That means all faith is a scam meant to control and hurt people, and that she should replace her arrogant proselytizing faith with and equally arrogant proselytizing rejection of faith.
“Said cult taught her to see the whole world in black and white. Having learned that some of the things it taught her were bad are actually good and some of the things it taught her were good are actually bad, she is now overgeneralizing that inversion of her parochial morality to most things.”
Oh wow, I didn’t even think of that! Also might explain why the outfit is more black than white- some part of her probably still views this change in herself as “going to the dark side” or something along those lines.
Too short. Sambo. You have to include the complete sentence.
Dumbing of Age book 12: Now I Know You Inspire Fear, But I Have to Muster the Courage to Face You and Say “Hell Isn’t Real, and so You can Love Whoever You Want!”
The best book titles are the ones that have to be in an increasingly smaller font size, or else they’ll end up taking up the entire front cover of the book.
The plank length per ‘pixel’ I would imagine, at least conceptually. From a practical standpoint, print resolution is pretty fine, so letters a thousandth of an inch high are doable.
As a librarian, really long subtitles that don’t really describe what the book is about are annoying. Though some series are great at it. Invincible used sitcom shows as subtitles.
Honestly? This makes sense thinking back to younger me. Oh I heard about bisexuality of course, but what I was TAUGHT it meant and what it ACTUALLY meant were two very different things. I was taught they were…
A. Mistaking appreciation for attraction
B. Actually gay, but just pretending to like both
C. In the process of TURNING gay, but can still be put on the right path
D. (fem bi only) Just saying it to get attention from men
I’ll be honest, as someone who gets infuriated by this behaviour, I’ve been digging seeing it reflected in Joyce.
Part of it is that Joyce is Joyce and empathy’s always gonna win out with her, I have the assurance this is going somewhere instead of the background miasma it is in my life, the other is that I think it’s kinda vital sometimes to depict societally-ingrained prejudices in sympathetic and likable protagonists. It sucks, but it’s real. Worst comes to worst you get a good story out of it.
Yeah, like, this is how an overreaching ally talks, let alone from within the gay community.
I think that’s an interesting way to approach depicting ingrained prejudices, build a main character up and have them act it out, because they’ve never had those views challenged, let alone a reason to bring them up before, and from there you have an assurance that the character is going to confront those views, because they still gotta be a main character later on and they probably can’t also be sneaking in biphobic talking points forever.
If, like, Danny, Becky or Jacob said something really terrible about neurodivergence, would it be out of character when casual prejudice towards neurodivergence is A Thing To Do on a cultural macro level?
In response to that last one, you know, interesting question, it depends a lot especially since all three characters you highlighted are non-hypotheticals. Especially for Becky, who’s interacted A LOT with several different neurodivergent characters. If she said something terrible about Dina’s specific neurodivergence, yeah, it’d be out of character – she’s demonstrated more than once that she totally gets Dina experiences the world and expresses emotions in ways that differ from the norm (best demonstrated IMO in that strip in Is A Song Forever where Dina uses her lack of outward emotional expression to give Becky permission not to do performative grief.) She doesn’t extend that to the realization Dina also experiences sexual desire differently, but that’s mostly because of her own sexuality-based hangups. On the other hand, Joyce is clearly neurodivergent – arguably even of the same stripe, Dina being clearly autistic-coded and Joyce reading as potentially autistic – and Becky routinely razzes her about eating off the kids’ menu, something which Joyce has demonstrated she’s a bit insecure about even if she’s mostly okay with joking about it (primarily when she’s trying to impress Jacob.) And obviously a huge part of their fight is that Becky doesn’t get that Joyce’s neuroses and rigidity were significant factors in her losing faith where Becky didn’t. I could also see her trying to get how Amber and AG’s plurality works and accidentally saying something insensitive again, even while trying not to be.
Danny clearly accidentally fucked up during the AG breakup, even as Amber was describing her experiences during the car chase in a way we now recognize was AG in control of the body. His frame of reference was superheroes, and so he didn’t realize what she was describing went beyond the Clark Kent/Superman divide and into ‘so yeah, there are two different people in my brain.’ I’m still not entirely sure if he gets it or not.
Jacob’s actually demonstrated a lot of understanding towards Joyce’s specific hangups, while still poking fun at them (though mostly only when she starts it, which is also why I don’t judge Becky too harshly for razzing on the food touching other food). I’d really like them to be on speaking terms again. No one in the cast is equipped to deal with Joyce’s religious trauma, but I think he could help Dorothy defuse the Edgy Atheist Superiority complex while saying ‘yeah, it makes sense that you can’t reconcile the rest of this with what you now know to be true, if this and this were how you could rationalize it all.’ Hope he emerges from his and Ethan’s dorm room soon.
“On the other hand, Joyce is clearly neurodivergent – arguably even of the same stripe, Dina being clearly autistic-coded and Joyce reading as potentially autistic – and Becky routinely razzes her about eating off the kids’ menu, something which Joyce has demonstrated she’s a bit insecure about”
I’m glad to see someone point this out, because the more subtle parts of the autistic spectrum are so little understood, recognised (even by professionals) and talked about. Even having my own experiences and research, I’d not connected it with Joyce’s behaviour consciously, but you’re spot on, its right there.
Honestly I go 50-50 on whether I think Joyce is autistic or some other variety of neurodivergent* compared to some autistic commenters, so I can’t take credit for that headcanon, but I’ve definitely seen aspects that remind me of myself in her, especially in things like the ‘if I wear glasses my conception of my face will change permanently’ bit and some of her Food Touching Other Food issues.
* To name one possibility, OCD. Joyce is also the trickier one since so much of Willis is in her, thus the occasional Twitter comment whenever the ‘is Joyce autistic or traumatized from religious abuse?’ debate comes up of ‘if you guys reach a conclusion, let me know.’
@ The Wellerman: Not always, especially in some cases. Like I said, I read Joyce as maybe autistic and maybe another flavor of neurodivergent, especially since her issues rarely include the ‘not understanding social expectations’ that tends to be one of our hallmarks. But she definitely has the special interest 0-to-obsession thing, she has what could be a sensory aspect in the food touching other food, and there’s a lot of Joyce’s character that includes a need for rigidity and structure that does feel familiar (and since she does run into issues where her social norms were all picked up from her upbringing and the very specific rules for How A Good Child Was Expected To Behave, and she struggles when they no longer apply, it doesn’t take much to read her using cult teachings as a workaround for not intuitively picking up the social rules.) Dina I read as autistic specifically, though – the performative eye contact and emoting in particular sound more like autism than anything else, and needing some sort of break during parties (the room for her and Sarah, or the paper bag when she got socially overwhelmed during Joyce and Becky’s dorm party) comes off as an overstimulation thing, which isn’t exclusively autistic but does lean heavily on that side. There was also something in one of the strips where she was playing piano that felt super familiar but I don’t remember what, it’s been a while. Her traits have gradually gotten more and more specifically autistic rather than vaguely neurodivergent, the way Amber and AG weren’t originally written as a system but are now clearly canonically so. By comparison, AmbG are definitely neurodivergent between the DID and Amber’s anxiety disorder (which includes a significant aspect of social anxiety), but I don’t think either of them are autistic. Similarly, it seems like Walky’s arc might be leading him towards an ADHD diagnosis this semester, but I think he’s specifically ADHD, not autistic or the combo package.
First off, I’ll say I really appreciate what you’re trying to do here, supporting acceptance of all kinds of neurodivergents (especially given I’m neurodivergent)!
But given how much I relate to socially-challenged neurodivergent characters here like Amber, Joyce and especially Dina (between my absolute suckiness at the guessing game called “”””social cues””””, eye contact draining my energy, performative emoting, and my social anxieties and exhaustions), I don’t know if you read my trauma story a few days ago, but the idea of people implying / deciding FOR ME that I’m “autistic” now because I want to be accepted with these neurodivergent stripes just makes me feel REALLY uncomfortable.
I’m glad you can still enjoy the story! I get how you feel. Moved from a VERY religious town in Arkansas a few years ago. Like… infamous even for Arkansas levels of religious. I get how it wears you down and drains you. Cause me a lot of background anxiety too. I hope you eventually get to a place where that’s not an issue anymore.
On a lighter note, moving caused me to become a baby gay for like… two years. Just like HI RAINBOW PERSON! I AM ALSO RAINBOW PERSON! LET ME SAY WORDS AT YOU!!! excited puppy energy. Plus, pointing out all the rainbow things and buying way too many of them. My home basically screams this person is NOT cis het. And honestly? I love it. Took me a long time to walk away and find somewhere I could feel safe and supported and covered in rainbows. It might take you a while too (and that’s okay). But I do hope that you find joy, kindness, and healthy boundries and those who will respect them ^_^
This could actually be really good for Joyce. Someone who will actually just tell her something straight up without trying to mince words or be nice. Someone who isn’t really a friend who she is just brushing off. And hopefully someone who is enough of an authority figure that Joyce will actually give some thought to what Ruth says (assuming Ruth is about to put her in her place a bit here).
Also, I feel like it’s not weird for Joyce to still be acting more or less exactly the same even without religion? Like everyone, she is a collection of her experiences; just because most/all of her upbringing is now very tainted for her doesn’t mean she is going to turn into a fundamentally different person, right? Being a busybody like this is just how she knows to act, it probably doesn’t even register as something that would make others feel uncomfortable, or at least is doesn’t matter if they are. She has a new worldview, a new starting line essentially, but she is going to have to relearn how to process the world piece by piece.
Exactly. She’s rebuilding her worldview piece by piece. And nobody gave her a manual telling her all the details and Things That Are. And even if somebody did, she’d still have to build it herself. You can’t just jam a worldview into place and have it fit. Well, I guess you CAN (see church indoctrination), but it may not fit as it bumps into real life experience (see Joyce). She’s hasn’t even gotten all the deets and she’s processing as she goes.
I’ll point out that’s one of the reasons why I don’t like religion in general – it gets pushed on you as a child and your worldview gets locked in around it in a way that’s insanely difficult to throw off later in life. “Catholic Guilt” isn’t a phrase for nothing.
I am at least grateful that while we are being subjected to Bi-Erasure Joyce, we’re still getting two fantastic panels of Ruth and Jason giving the perfect reactions to her.
Not gonna lie, I was fully expecting this comic to just be Dorothy studying while violence happens in the background. Well, I was hoping that’s what would happen, because actually watching Joyce embarrass herself is making me cringe so hard I’ll probably be sore next morning.
Everything Joyce knew is wrong, and as of yesterday everything Joyce knows now, which is very little, is correct.
In maybe too simple terms: she just has to do the opposite of what she used to think. Girls dating girls is wrong, so says her death cult, and so now it’s not only good, it’s a moral imperative it be acted upon.
Damn I made Joyce sound way more sapphic than I ever thought I could.
The logic is: joyce knows the church and society often look down on homosexuality. She probably thinks Ruth is a lesbian, and is only “acting straight” because of religion.
But if there is no god, there is no need to pretend to be straight.
Its logic that actually makes sense (except for the lack of knowledge re: bisexuality)
Not to mention the whole bit w Ethan probably sits in the back of her mind on these things. She did try to “straighten” him out. Can’t help but think she’s got some weird residual guilt from all that
That’s over-extending what Joyce said quite a bit. It’s sure where we were led to /think/ she was going. Joyce pulled up short with “love whoever you want.” So while she’s calling out her own obliviousness about Ruth’s sexuality, she’s still being supportive of love and critical of what she thinks is a religious constraints.
“Love whoever you want,” regardless of cultural/religious bias is a supportive message. Considering the anti-gay history of abrahamic religions, it’s a solid message.
It’s a supportive message in itself, but in context it’s got the strong implication of “therefore dump this boy, because he can’t be who you want.” That she liked girls so therefore the only reason she could be with a boy is because of fear of hell.
God, grant Spencer the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change the things they can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
God, grant Spencer the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change the things they can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Oh Joyce. You mean well. At least she softened the terribleness of the conversation by complimenting Ruth on her ability to inspire fear. And yelling “Hell isn’t real and so you can love whoever you want!” is at least going to add a sort of a confusing chaos to the mix.
Like I know it’s possible Joyce doesn’t know bisexuality exists at all like Becky was once like as others have pointed out but I also think it’s possible she knows it exists but fully thinks Ruth is a lesbian pulling an Ethan. And given the fact Joyce was involved with that clusterfuck of a decision to try to be straight it wouldn’t surprise me if she wanted to anxiously make up for the awful things she did as a believer.
There was a long time afterwards when I really hated my past Christian self but now I mostly just pity her.
It must feel so horrible to try so hard to make ammends the best way (or even the only way) you know how, and still have it blow up in your face.
Joyce just so desperately wants something or someone to follow (or follow the opposite of) to guarantee that she won’t have to humiliate herself ever again..
This. It feels like she’s trying to right the wrongs she knows she’s committed in the past. But as someone said below, she overshot. No doubt she’ll continue to overcorrect for a while!
A man is complaining about backproblems, and the fact his pants no longer fit, he goes to the doctor and tells him about it, the doctor listens, all while looking at the man’s rotund belly.
Once the man is finished the doctor says “Well alright but here’s my first suggestion” and he gave the man’s belly a poke “Diet”
The Man looks at the doctor and then down at his stomach and goes “Okay, what color?”
ooookay i’ve had second thoughts right after hitting post and did a bit of research instead of going by what i thought i knew based on poorly digested conversations with more knowledgeable friends, and… i guess some diets do work, and it’s all very complicated and i am absolutely unqualified to make any sort of statement one way or another, nobody listen to me *hidey-face monkey*)
The reason diets generally don’t work (setting aside medical problems or medications that cause weight gain) is because people hop onto “fad” diets, lose the weight, then go right back to what they were doing before, and gain the weight back again. A “real” diet is when you make a lifestyle change (and it’s usually about more than just weight – it’s also sodium intake, sugar intake, getting the right vitamins etc). But that’s so much harder and we as humans really, *really* like the “easy way out” options…
A lot of the time that doesn’t work long term either. The relationship between weight and health is so much more complicated than a lot of doctors admit.
It really is weird how many people don’t seem to realize that bisexuality exists. Or,somewhat offensively, don’t “believe” in it, don’t think we’re real. (I’m a heteroromantic bisexual altersexual, to get all explicit Character Sheet about it.) My mom a few years ago said something like “I don’t get how anyone could be bisexual” and rather than throw an offended fit at her or go “Well, I’m bisexual” (I haven’t told her cuz it would lead swiftly into the much more awkward conversation of “well, bi*sexual* isn’t quite the right word, since I have a paraphilia that functions as my actual orientation; sex is not what I’m interested in doing”) I instead just asked “Is it any weirder than the concept of like, twins?” and she totally got that!
Anyway the point is that Ruth should fart on Joyce and yell “This is my Chick tract about bisexuality!!!”
I’ve found that awareness of the nuances takes time and awkward experiences. I think she’s moving along well. No doubt soon, she’ll have even more awkward experiences and become aware of even more things!
It wouldn’t hurt for Ruth to tell her off or for someone to tell her, well, yanooo… things don’t have to be binary. Then she could start to process that.
Maybe Joyce learning what bisexuality is in this matter will lead to her questioning her own sexuality.
Sure, she should’ve learned in gender studies already, but I guess that class was crisis mode and open discussion free-for-all fights all the time anyway, so some gaps can be explained away without implicating Lesley.
I wouldn’t expect anything like an illuninating sit-down chat now, though. Perhaps a short practical in the concepts of boundaries and “business, nonya”, but not a lecture.
I’m kinda hoping Ruth (or somebody else) explains the concept of bisexuality to Joyce soon, because it seems clear she either isn’t aware of it, or she was taught an incorrect meaning of it.
There’s a really strange ad that keeps popping up on mobile for me for otterbox that takes up about the bottom 1/4 of the screen and is making it impossible for me to scroll to the bittom of the page and even make a comment.
As a bi person this is like… The LEAST obnoxious variety of Obnoxious Straights to me.
Like ok it’s condescending as fuck but at least she’s not groping Ruth out of nowhere assuming that because she’s bi she’s dtf anywhere any time with anyone, or a straight dude being gross and asking for threesome, or a lesbian telling Ruth she hates bi chicks and wants to curb stomp them into oblivion because they’re just fucking around for attention till they can go back to straight life or etc (all of those are things I have directly experienced as a bi person and aren’t even close to the most egregious. It gets SO MUCH WORSE than this). It’s problematic and cringey sure but at least it’s not actively and willfully hateful? Like as obnoxious as Joyce is being right now at least it in part comes from a place of trying to encourage self acceptance.
Also I’ll toss a big thanks to Willis for building a comments section where we don’t have a bajillion self appointed Arbiters of Real Queerness arguing that maybe this is biphobia but even if it is it doesn’t count or matter as a Real Microaggression because Ruth is in a get relationship right now and has passing privilege and if she doesn’t want people to assume she’s trying to go back in the closet she should date only girls. Instead people here understand exactly why and how Joyce is fucking up and aren’t bending themselves into pretzels trying to justify it. Thanks for being awesome folks, you have absolutely no idea how hard I’ve been bracing for crap when I’ve been opening the comments ever since this arc started and so far I haven’t seen it. 🙂
Obvs not gonna happen with Ruth for obvious reasons, but someone with Walk’s humor and a self-awareness I’m unsure is in this comic would def respond to “you can love whoever you want” with “yep, doing just that. thanks for the call of reassurance though”
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why are Jason’s eyebrows so hilarious
also surprised Jason’s selling point is “discourages the giving of punches and taking of femurs”
I would have expected him to encourage it now that he is no longer working there.
nah, if a random passerby calls the cops for cartoon violence, the cops will ID everyone there, find out his Visa is invalid (since it was contingent on his grad school/student teaching at the college) and then he gets in trouble too. Jason is just being pragmatic here!
Twouldn’t be cricket.
His middle name is Jiminy.
I think it’s mostly the blank-ness of the look he’s giving. His tired “…are you kidding me” look is pretty choice right now :D.
I love people with huge bold eyebrows.
Ruth is showing some impressive willpower right now. Of course Jason is helping, in some way.
Either way, I hope this is Joyce learning and understanding of what bisexuality is. Although I wonder, will this be a good thing or bad thing?
He’s her Emotional Support Brit.
Now that’s comedy!
You forgot to credit Slappy Squirrel!
I was going to say “Morality Pet”, but that works too.
I assure you, what the two of them get up to involving leashes and collars has nothing to do with morality.
Not if “Morality” is the safeword, or if they named the dog Morality.
service limey?
I need an emotional support Brit and never realized it.
As a Brit, you’re doing great, and I’m really proud of you.
<3
As a pedant, you swapped the subjects and accidentally called Clif a Brit, I think.
There is some ambiguity, but the intended meaning can be inferred. I think it is grammatically acceptable.
That’s why I married one!
I’d recommend Mr. Steed.
I’d’ve gone for Ms. Peel, King, or Gale. Maybe all three, but I’m greedy like that.
Well just to be fair, let’s give this the benefit of the doubt until we find out just whether or not Joyce knows bisexuality even EXISTS.
Considering at one point Becky didn’t (don’t know if that’s changed yet) I think it’s safe to say she doesn’t
Especially since Joyce didn’t even pick up on the sexual tension in her own comic.
I’m not sure Becky acknowledges any orientation other than “apocalyptically lesbian”
Becky once told Joyce that liking both is indeed a thing (after Dina corrected Becky first, offscreen), but Joyce apparently wasn’t paying attention. She probably still thinks Dina’s a lesbian.
Becky acknowledges their existence but does not respect them.
Eeeehhhh it’s vague.
She said “is there even a word for that?” to Billie and then did learn there was indeed a word. The only other time she’s gotten close to talking about bisexuality was when she was insistent that Billie and Ruth were definitely still totes in love and she needed to dump Asher, but that was part of Becky’s weird plan to keep them apart, and more broadly isn’t really specific commentary on bisexuality.
Sooooo if I had to guess, I think Becky would view it more like “yeah you can date both, but date girls because they’re better,” and I don’t think that’d be as affable as she’d make it sound.
I think there’s a lot of things Becky feels sincerely but recognizes are unacceptable, hence the deliberate exaggeration to indicate that she knows she’s in the wrong and making a joke of it.
Which I get, I do the same thing, although generally about like film nitpicks or historical inaccuracies rather than core pillars of somebodies identity
Becky would probably say she can’t conceive of it given how icky boys are. 🙂
” Shrink or remove a black hole at the center
of a galaxy of cobwebs,
all the cobwebs still remain there. “
Wouldn’t she have learned about bisexuals in Leslie’s class?
She may have been in the deny stage and forgotten about it.
But she is going to LEARN soon!
Leslie couldn’t cover all the material last semester because of all the interruptions
it might have been assumed in the material. Leslie taught “Gender Studies” , studying how a person might exhibit attitudes, behaviors and characteristics based on their gender, and how those gender packages “roles” are societally constructed and also fluid depending upon situation. Also how those roles are both linked and separate from biology and sex.
I can see Sexual Orientation being discussed as a factor in a Gender role, but not necessarily convered in depth.
AND NOW consider that Leslie has to present her intended curriculum which needs to be accepted by the department head, probably overseen by the Dean who has to answer to a State Board of Trustees?
Welcome to higher Education in Indiana…
Sexual orientation is usually a part of gender studies – it’s a sub discipline called sexuality studies but it’s usually part and parcel of the subject. BUT whether or not you get much coverage of it in intro classes is a different matter. In my experience, those are generally based around examining gender and sometimes intersectionality with class and race. We know Leslie discussed some LGBT+ stuff, but I dunno if that was more general and not an in-depth discussion of bisexuality. The actual WORD probably came up at some point but that’s hardly a guarantee Joyce gets it.
There was hope that Joyce had made it through L & G to B already, and perhaps we’d get to T and her sister soon (see chapter one title). Will tomorrow Quell my worries?
Then again, this could be Willis having us on. (since he’s already pulled a bit between yesterday and today)
This is so very cringy XD
But again, please don’t take it too seriously, people.
YOU POOR STUPID BABIES
The comic
Underrated comment
…Y’know, I’m probably always gonna be a Ruth/Billie shipper at heart, but Ruth and Jason’s dynamic is definitely winning me over.
I’m just glad Jason gets to be a character again. I’ve kinda missed the stringbean.
I like Billie and Ruth but in the sense that I love watching what a horrible trainwreck they are.
(singing) And always let your bartender be your guide!
I mean, I’d laugh. I shouldn’t, but it’s inevitable that I would.
Kinda agree with Ruth.
I mean, has anyone ever actually explained bisexuality/pansexuality to Joyce?
Fanfic writers have.
Even if this technically counts, it may have just slipped her mind after it was displaced by what she heard in the last two panels.
Yeah, Joyce definitely would’ve forgotten that bit of knowledge dropping… 😀
Not intensively.
Not on-screen, but either she skipped a bunch of the reading in gender studies or Leslie is not very thorough at choosing the readings for her gender studies students
As with evolution and all other ideas that contradicted her preconceived notions of her fundie upbringing, this is probably how she processed those ideas in gender studies.
Before I actually clicked the link, I was imagining this comic.
(not sure if that worked, try this link instead.)
I don’t believe so, and if they were mentioned briefly she probably wasn’t paying attention at the time.
She won’t, but I’m kinda hoping Dorothy drops Joyce as a friend out of embarrassment.
Dorothy’s too nice to do that.
Also it would end Becky’s one-sided rivalry for her, and that’s what keeps Becky from getting bored. “Bored Becky” is a phrase kind of lights up the same synapses in my brain as “Dynamite Monkey”, so hopefully Dorothy knows to keep her invested.
Nah Dorothy’s too nice for that, she knows this is probably just a phase (cue Joyce saying: “ITS NOT A PHASE DOROTHY!”)
Dorothy’s a very nice person, plus she’s been through a lot with Joyce.
Dorothy’s a very nice person and realizes that, when she is president, the nation will need Joyce to lead a strong defense against the Martians.
Better yet, chose NOW to tell Joyce about her getting into Yale.
The next strip is just Dorothy packing up her stuff and leaving for Yale. Right now. No delays. She’s done.
Do it for the lulz, Ruth. Do it for the lulz.
And thus Walky missed the best chance at getting references for his comic
I owe Joyce an apology.
For what? Out of curiousity.
For a comment I wrote yesterday supposing that she was inclined to dictate sexual morality to Ruth. But here she is disavowing any right or intention to do that.
And taking a pratfall over bisexual erasure…. Oh well. Baby steps….
She doesn’t have to take baby steps anymore, she’s a wise baby atheist. She can pratfall in leaps and bounds!
HOW DID JOYCE END UP HERE!? IT IS LITERALLY LIKE SHES THE SAME BUT SOMEONE SCRIBBLED OVER THE PENCIL WITH PEN
She’s still a dumb teenager. How many years until that stops? 10? 20?
Sometimes it never stops
She’s 18, so 2 years at most. Then she gets to be a dumb 20-something.
…. assuming she survives that long. So…. 50/50 she stops being a dumb teenager in the next 10 seconds.
I doubt it. Ruth is intimidating, but her actual femur collection is rather small. We have seen Joyce punch out a much larger person than herself and Ruth actually punch out, um, no one, though in fairness she did toss Jennifer around and by implication suplex Carol off panel.
Now I’m imagining Ruth suplexing Carol out of a comic panel and her just falling off into a void. It’s not a bad thought.
But what if she suplexes her out into our world? We have too many Carols already.
Short answer, she’s a dumb teenager.
Longer answer, she’s spent her entire life dealing in absolutes and not really thinking critically about things. What used to be a huge part of her beliefs and life has fairly abruptly been shattered and taken from her, and on top of being super angry and lashing out, said absolutes and lack of critical thought and introspection means she doesn’t realize she has not, on a fundamental level, actually abandoned the type of thinking that made those former beliefs bad and unhealthy.
She recently realized that she spent her whole life in what was essentially a cult. Said cult taught her to see the whole world in black and white. Having learned that some of the things it taught her were bad are actually good and some of the things it taught her were good are actually bad, she is now overgeneralizing that inversion of her parochial morality to most things.
She was taught that everyone has to be straight or go to Hell, but then learned some people are gay and it’s not bad? That means people who experience any same-sex attraction should always be in same-sex relationships and the only reason they wouldn’t be is fear of damnation.
She was taught that she should be kind and put others’ needs before her own, but then learned that it’s valuable to stand up for oneself and that the demure ideal she was encouraged to emulate left her and her peers vulnerable to exploitation? That means you should always put yourself before others or you’ll get stepped on.
She was taught that God is real and the righteous dead go to heaven and humans have souls and lives with intrinsic meaning, but then learned that none of the rationale she was given for believing those things holds up to scrutiny and that the faithful believers whom she was taught were morally good can be and often are bad and non-believers can be and often are good? That means all faith is a scam meant to control and hurt people, and that she should replace her arrogant proselytizing faith with and equally arrogant proselytizing rejection of faith.
Nuance takes time and work.
“Said cult taught her to see the whole world in black and white. Having learned that some of the things it taught her were bad are actually good and some of the things it taught her were good are actually bad, she is now overgeneralizing that inversion of her parochial morality to most things.”
That explains her outfit for this chapter!
Oh wow, I didn’t even think of that! Also might explain why the outfit is more black than white- some part of her probably still views this change in herself as “going to the dark side” or something along those lines.
Yesss. Nuances take work.
Also, Paradoxius, I love your avatar! No pun intended.
” The True Mind can wither away all illusions without being lost. “
Punching Joyce might even be Hella’ Funny!
(Not that I recommend it)
I would laugh. I like Joyce! But I would definitely laugh
Give it a couple weeks, Joyce would probably laugh
Joyce might punch back. Hard.
An interaction between Joyce and Mary might end up with both parties facing attempted homicide charges.
Because why would Ruth date a boy unless the alternative was eternal damnation?
It’s not that she’s dating a boy, it’s that she’s dating Jason.
Oh yeah I could see someone having some questions about that.
Hm. Jason on the one hand and Eternal Damnation on the other.
Yeah, I can see where it could be a hard choice, but Jason is definitely the lesser of two evils.
Coat racks don’t have an alignment. They can not be an evil.
I certainly have questions about that.
I dunno, I feel like on some days Ruth would welcome eternal damnation.
zoidbergwaitiknowthisone.gif
’cause hell is other people, right?
She is not alone.
Honestly, I was expecting to be disappointed here by Joyce’s actions but this is pretty funny.
Dumbing of Age book 12: Hell isn’t real, and so you can love whoever you want!
A very welcome and positive message to use as a title, if you ask me!
At least, in most contexts.
Dumbing of Age Book XII: See, There’s a Reason I Keep You Around
Too short. Sambo. You have to include the complete sentence.
Dumbing of Age book 12: Now I Know You Inspire Fear, But I Have to Muster the Courage to Face You and Say “Hell Isn’t Real, and so You can Love Whoever You Want!”
Now that’s a title.
The best book titles are the ones that have to be in an increasingly smaller font size, or else they’ll end up taking up the entire front cover of the book.
lol. I’ve often wondered about the limit to those long book titles.
The plank length per ‘pixel’ I would imagine, at least conceptually. From a practical standpoint, print resolution is pretty fine, so letters a thousandth of an inch high are doable.
As a librarian, really long subtitles that don’t really describe what the book is about are annoying. Though some series are great at it. Invincible used sitcom shows as subtitles.
That last panel sums up everything I love about their relationship
Ruth: So the only reason to date a man is fear of Hell.
Joyce: Yes.
Ruth: I’m glad you’re coming out to me, Joyce.
Joyce: W..what!?
I would laugh SO VERY VERY HARD if that is where all this is leading
Well, we know Joyce isn’t far enough away from Dorothy to settle back down to her baseline Kinsey reading yet.
Honestly? This makes sense thinking back to younger me. Oh I heard about bisexuality of course, but what I was TAUGHT it meant and what it ACTUALLY meant were two very different things. I was taught they were…
A. Mistaking appreciation for attraction
B. Actually gay, but just pretending to like both
C. In the process of TURNING gay, but can still be put on the right path
D. (fem bi only) Just saying it to get attention from men
I’ll be honest, as someone who gets infuriated by this behaviour, I’ve been digging seeing it reflected in Joyce.
Part of it is that Joyce is Joyce and empathy’s always gonna win out with her, I have the assurance this is going somewhere instead of the background miasma it is in my life, the other is that I think it’s kinda vital sometimes to depict societally-ingrained prejudices in sympathetic and likable protagonists. It sucks, but it’s real. Worst comes to worst you get a good story out of it.
Yep. Especially when it’s so clearly Joyce being Abso-fucking-lutely Wrong. Like, hilariously so, though most of the comedy is in Ruth’s response.
Yeah, like, this is how an overreaching ally talks, let alone from within the gay community.
I think that’s an interesting way to approach depicting ingrained prejudices, build a main character up and have them act it out, because they’ve never had those views challenged, let alone a reason to bring them up before, and from there you have an assurance that the character is going to confront those views, because they still gotta be a main character later on and they probably can’t also be sneaking in biphobic talking points forever.
If, like, Danny, Becky or Jacob said something really terrible about neurodivergence, would it be out of character when casual prejudice towards neurodivergence is A Thing To Do on a cultural macro level?
In response to that last one, you know, interesting question, it depends a lot especially since all three characters you highlighted are non-hypotheticals. Especially for Becky, who’s interacted A LOT with several different neurodivergent characters. If she said something terrible about Dina’s specific neurodivergence, yeah, it’d be out of character – she’s demonstrated more than once that she totally gets Dina experiences the world and expresses emotions in ways that differ from the norm (best demonstrated IMO in that strip in Is A Song Forever where Dina uses her lack of outward emotional expression to give Becky permission not to do performative grief.) She doesn’t extend that to the realization Dina also experiences sexual desire differently, but that’s mostly because of her own sexuality-based hangups. On the other hand, Joyce is clearly neurodivergent – arguably even of the same stripe, Dina being clearly autistic-coded and Joyce reading as potentially autistic – and Becky routinely razzes her about eating off the kids’ menu, something which Joyce has demonstrated she’s a bit insecure about even if she’s mostly okay with joking about it (primarily when she’s trying to impress Jacob.) And obviously a huge part of their fight is that Becky doesn’t get that Joyce’s neuroses and rigidity were significant factors in her losing faith where Becky didn’t. I could also see her trying to get how Amber and AG’s plurality works and accidentally saying something insensitive again, even while trying not to be.
Danny clearly accidentally fucked up during the AG breakup, even as Amber was describing her experiences during the car chase in a way we now recognize was AG in control of the body. His frame of reference was superheroes, and so he didn’t realize what she was describing went beyond the Clark Kent/Superman divide and into ‘so yeah, there are two different people in my brain.’ I’m still not entirely sure if he gets it or not.
Jacob’s actually demonstrated a lot of understanding towards Joyce’s specific hangups, while still poking fun at them (though mostly only when she starts it, which is also why I don’t judge Becky too harshly for razzing on the food touching other food). I’d really like them to be on speaking terms again. No one in the cast is equipped to deal with Joyce’s religious trauma, but I think he could help Dorothy defuse the Edgy Atheist Superiority complex while saying ‘yeah, it makes sense that you can’t reconcile the rest of this with what you now know to be true, if this and this were how you could rationalize it all.’ Hope he emerges from his and Ethan’s dorm room soon.
“On the other hand, Joyce is clearly neurodivergent – arguably even of the same stripe, Dina being clearly autistic-coded and Joyce reading as potentially autistic – and Becky routinely razzes her about eating off the kids’ menu, something which Joyce has demonstrated she’s a bit insecure about”
I’m glad to see someone point this out, because the more subtle parts of the autistic spectrum are so little understood, recognised (even by professionals) and talked about. Even having my own experiences and research, I’d not connected it with Joyce’s behaviour consciously, but you’re spot on, its right there.
Um, I don’t mean to be too tangential, but do you think neurodivergent traits like this necessarily code for autism in particular?
Honestly I go 50-50 on whether I think Joyce is autistic or some other variety of neurodivergent* compared to some autistic commenters, so I can’t take credit for that headcanon, but I’ve definitely seen aspects that remind me of myself in her, especially in things like the ‘if I wear glasses my conception of my face will change permanently’ bit and some of her Food Touching Other Food issues.
* To name one possibility, OCD. Joyce is also the trickier one since so much of Willis is in her, thus the occasional Twitter comment whenever the ‘is Joyce autistic or traumatized from religious abuse?’ debate comes up of ‘if you guys reach a conclusion, let me know.’
@ The Wellerman: Not always, especially in some cases. Like I said, I read Joyce as maybe autistic and maybe another flavor of neurodivergent, especially since her issues rarely include the ‘not understanding social expectations’ that tends to be one of our hallmarks. But she definitely has the special interest 0-to-obsession thing, she has what could be a sensory aspect in the food touching other food, and there’s a lot of Joyce’s character that includes a need for rigidity and structure that does feel familiar (and since she does run into issues where her social norms were all picked up from her upbringing and the very specific rules for How A Good Child Was Expected To Behave, and she struggles when they no longer apply, it doesn’t take much to read her using cult teachings as a workaround for not intuitively picking up the social rules.) Dina I read as autistic specifically, though – the performative eye contact and emoting in particular sound more like autism than anything else, and needing some sort of break during parties (the room for her and Sarah, or the paper bag when she got socially overwhelmed during Joyce and Becky’s dorm party) comes off as an overstimulation thing, which isn’t exclusively autistic but does lean heavily on that side. There was also something in one of the strips where she was playing piano that felt super familiar but I don’t remember what, it’s been a while. Her traits have gradually gotten more and more specifically autistic rather than vaguely neurodivergent, the way Amber and AG weren’t originally written as a system but are now clearly canonically so. By comparison, AmbG are definitely neurodivergent between the DID and Amber’s anxiety disorder (which includes a significant aspect of social anxiety), but I don’t think either of them are autistic. Similarly, it seems like Walky’s arc might be leading him towards an ADHD diagnosis this semester, but I think he’s specifically ADHD, not autistic or the combo package.
First off, I’ll say I really appreciate what you’re trying to do here, supporting acceptance of all kinds of neurodivergents (especially given I’m neurodivergent)!
But given how much I relate to socially-challenged neurodivergent characters here like Amber, Joyce and especially Dina (between my absolute suckiness at the guessing game called “”””social cues””””, eye contact draining my energy, performative emoting, and my social anxieties and exhaustions), I don’t know if you read my trauma story a few days ago, but the idea of people implying / deciding FOR ME that I’m “autistic” now because I want to be accepted with these neurodivergent stripes just makes me feel REALLY uncomfortable.
I’m glad you can still enjoy the story! I get how you feel. Moved from a VERY religious town in Arkansas a few years ago. Like… infamous even for Arkansas levels of religious. I get how it wears you down and drains you. Cause me a lot of background anxiety too. I hope you eventually get to a place where that’s not an issue anymore.
On a lighter note, moving caused me to become a baby gay for like… two years. Just like HI RAINBOW PERSON! I AM ALSO RAINBOW PERSON! LET ME SAY WORDS AT YOU!!! excited puppy energy. Plus, pointing out all the rainbow things and buying way too many of them. My home basically screams this person is NOT cis het. And honestly? I love it. Took me a long time to walk away and find somewhere I could feel safe and supported and covered in rainbows. It might take you a while too (and that’s okay). But I do hope that you find joy, kindness, and healthy boundries and those who will respect them ^_^
My healthy boundary is a baseball bat to the knees.
It sure brings me joy.
Congratulations Bluewind!
Oh no, my Malaya avatar makes my comment look sarcastic.
Betterish.
XD
Try having THIS mug as your avatar. I’ll be glad when it changes.
Try grav roulette?
I’m so happy for you <3
[Shia LeBouf voice] DO IT. JUST. DO IT.
[Sheev voice] DEWIT.
[Madalena voice] Do D’DEW
[Godfather’s Pizza voice] “Do iiiiit!”
This could actually be really good for Joyce. Someone who will actually just tell her something straight up without trying to mince words or be nice. Someone who isn’t really a friend who she is just brushing off. And hopefully someone who is enough of an authority figure that Joyce will actually give some thought to what Ruth says (assuming Ruth is about to put her in her place a bit here).
Also, I feel like it’s not weird for Joyce to still be acting more or less exactly the same even without religion? Like everyone, she is a collection of her experiences; just because most/all of her upbringing is now very tainted for her doesn’t mean she is going to turn into a fundamentally different person, right? Being a busybody like this is just how she knows to act, it probably doesn’t even register as something that would make others feel uncomfortable, or at least is doesn’t matter if they are. She has a new worldview, a new starting line essentially, but she is going to have to relearn how to process the world piece by piece.
Exactly. She’s rebuilding her worldview piece by piece. And nobody gave her a manual telling her all the details and Things That Are. And even if somebody did, she’d still have to build it herself. You can’t just jam a worldview into place and have it fit. Well, I guess you CAN (see church indoctrination), but it may not fit as it bumps into real life experience (see Joyce). She’s hasn’t even gotten all the deets and she’s processing as she goes.
I’ll point out that’s one of the reasons why I don’t like religion in general – it gets pushed on you as a child and your worldview gets locked in around it in a way that’s insanely difficult to throw off later in life. “Catholic Guilt” isn’t a phrase for nothing.
I was really hoping we wouldn’t be subjected to this. Thanks, I hate it.
I am at least grateful that while we are being subjected to Bi-Erasure Joyce, we’re still getting two fantastic panels of Ruth and Jason giving the perfect reactions to her.
You right.
Not gonna lie, I was fully expecting this comic to just be Dorothy studying while violence happens in the background. Well, I was hoping that’s what would happen, because actually watching Joyce embarrass herself is making me cringe so hard I’ll probably be sore next morning.
well what are you doing reading DOA without warming up your cringers first
What the fuck kind of logic is “God is dead so don’t be straight (or bi)”
Everything Joyce knew is wrong, and as of yesterday everything Joyce knows now, which is very little, is correct.
In maybe too simple terms: she just has to do the opposite of what she used to think. Girls dating girls is wrong, so says her death cult, and so now it’s not only good, it’s a moral imperative it be acted upon.
Damn I made Joyce sound way more sapphic than I ever thought I could.
Joyce seems to think Ruth is a lesbian, and may not grok that Bi people exist.
Of course Bi people don’t exist. There isn’t even a word for it.
Joyce is here to receive an education and that happens one step at a time.
One baby step at a time. I feel for her.
The logic is: joyce knows the church and society often look down on homosexuality. She probably thinks Ruth is a lesbian, and is only “acting straight” because of religion.
But if there is no god, there is no need to pretend to be straight.
Its logic that actually makes sense (except for the lack of knowledge re: bisexuality)
Not to mention the whole bit w Ethan probably sits in the back of her mind on these things. She did try to “straighten” him out. Can’t help but think she’s got some weird residual guilt from all that
That’s over-extending what Joyce said quite a bit. It’s sure where we were led to /think/ she was going. Joyce pulled up short with “love whoever you want.” So while she’s calling out her own obliviousness about Ruth’s sexuality, she’s still being supportive of love and critical of what she thinks is a religious constraints.
“Love whoever you want,” regardless of cultural/religious bias is a supportive message. Considering the anti-gay history of abrahamic religions, it’s a solid message.
It’s a supportive message in itself, but in context it’s got the strong implication of “therefore dump this boy, because he can’t be who you want.” That she liked girls so therefore the only reason she could be with a boy is because of fear of hell.
You can love anyone you want EXCEPT BOYS!!!!!
That’s what Naomi said.
I mean.
This is not an unheard of thing from the kind of person who tries to claim ownership of bisexual identities.
One day I will make it a whole 24 hours without a spelling or HTML format error.
God, grant Spencer the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change the things they can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
God, grant Spencer the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change the things they can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
The Spencer checklist:
– 8000 word piles about why Joe and Joyce are married.
– Extreme adoration of Danny’s ideal bisexual existence of puns and no fashion sense.
– Writing “tenant” when I meant to say “tenet.”
LOL. She’s trying hard, anyway. To be fair, sometimes it’s hard to keep up.
Joyce, baby, quit while you’re behind, I’m begging. I can only cringe so hard. XD
Hey, I missed it but you got your Sal gravatar back. Comgrats
Congrats*
Congratulations.
Congratulations.
You did it, Shinji
Thank you, Sal Army. And AGV!
“Basically, I have no more real learning to do.”
— Joyce, approximately 17 seconds ago.
[Narrator voice] She was about to encounter a sharp learning curve.
oh god no grav roulette why
BOY SHE GUNNA LEARN TODAY
It’s like fucking educational SPELUNKY.
[Godhand theme starts to play as Ruth raises her fist]
hahaha she did actually say that. beautiful
Joyce is… helping?
I think she thinks that what she does.
She is a lesbian love sleuth
Go ahead, Ruth. Punch her.
Oh Joyce. You mean well. At least she softened the terribleness of the conversation by complimenting Ruth on her ability to inspire fear. And yelling “Hell isn’t real and so you can love whoever you want!” is at least going to add a sort of a confusing chaos to the mix.
Jason’s logic is well known to be flawed. Punch away!
Like I know it’s possible Joyce doesn’t know bisexuality exists at all like Becky was once like as others have pointed out but I also think it’s possible she knows it exists but fully thinks Ruth is a lesbian pulling an Ethan. And given the fact Joyce was involved with that clusterfuck of a decision to try to be straight it wouldn’t surprise me if she wanted to anxiously make up for the awful things she did as a believer.
There was a long time afterwards when I really hated my past Christian self but now I mostly just pity her.
It must feel so horrible to try so hard to make ammends the best way (or even the only way) you know how, and still have it blow up in your face.
Joyce just so desperately wants something or someone to follow (or follow the opposite of) to guarantee that she won’t have to humiliate herself ever again..
This. It feels like she’s trying to right the wrongs she knows she’s committed in the past. But as someone said below, she overshot. No doubt she’ll continue to overcorrect for a while!
Punch her…softly.
oh god she’s become that type of person.
Who’s ready for a joke?
I am! Hopefully it’s a tasty one too! 😋
A man is complaining about backproblems, and the fact his pants no longer fit, he goes to the doctor and tells him about it, the doctor listens, all while looking at the man’s rotund belly.
Once the man is finished the doctor says “Well alright but here’s my first suggestion” and he gave the man’s belly a poke “Diet”
The Man looks at the doctor and then down at his stomach and goes “Okay, what color?”
😛
pffhaha
(also, bad doctor. diets don’t work and weight gain can have many causes other than nutrition.)
ooookay i’ve had second thoughts right after hitting post and did a bit of research instead of going by what i thought i knew based on poorly digested conversations with more knowledgeable friends, and… i guess some diets do work, and it’s all very complicated and i am absolutely unqualified to make any sort of statement one way or another, nobody listen to me *hidey-face monkey*)
The reason diets generally don’t work (setting aside medical problems or medications that cause weight gain) is because people hop onto “fad” diets, lose the weight, then go right back to what they were doing before, and gain the weight back again. A “real” diet is when you make a lifestyle change (and it’s usually about more than just weight – it’s also sodium intake, sugar intake, getting the right vitamins etc). But that’s so much harder and we as humans really, *really* like the “easy way out” options…
Guys…cmon now, save that sorta long dialog for the comic, the joke is that english is weird… 😛
@Reaver haha sorreeeee
Joke thread! No serious talk! Got it!
A lot of the time that doesn’t work long term either. The relationship between weight and health is so much more complicated than a lot of doctors admit.
Even with the best science available for this stuff, the best doctors can do most of the time is little better than a blind guess.
It really is weird how many people don’t seem to realize that bisexuality exists. Or,somewhat offensively, don’t “believe” in it, don’t think we’re real. (I’m a heteroromantic bisexual altersexual, to get all explicit Character Sheet about it.) My mom a few years ago said something like “I don’t get how anyone could be bisexual” and rather than throw an offended fit at her or go “Well, I’m bisexual” (I haven’t told her cuz it would lead swiftly into the much more awkward conversation of “well, bi*sexual* isn’t quite the right word, since I have a paraphilia that functions as my actual orientation; sex is not what I’m interested in doing”) I instead just asked “Is it any weirder than the concept of like, twins?” and she totally got that!
Anyway the point is that Ruth should fart on Joyce and yell “This is my Chick tract about bisexuality!!!”
You know that might actually be pretty funny!
When’s the last time we’ve seen anyone burp or fart in this comic anyway?
The last I recall was https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/congratulations/
i think Becky or Walky also burped one time, no?
Both, actually.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/belchin/
Also Becky farts like 2 panels later.
“Really, there’s only one fart joke, but it’s a really funny one.”
Now I’m stumped, and Google is no help: what’s “altersexual?”
I’ve found that awareness of the nuances takes time and awkward experiences. I think she’s moving along well. No doubt soon, she’ll have even more awkward experiences and become aware of even more things!
It wouldn’t hurt for Ruth to tell her off or for someone to tell her, well, yanooo… things don’t have to be binary. Then she could start to process that.
She’s kind of overshot.
Joyce may literally melt once she tries to internalize that this newfangled “buy-sexuality” is a thing.
“You can just BUY them!?”
Well, more like rent.
no no, that’s different. rent-sexuality is when you’re attracted to people singing about how long things take
I was hoping Dorothy would be able to stop her, but she didn’t say the worse thing ever either.
Dorothy just gave up and let Joyce learn by pain.
Appropriate gravatar.
Love the way they are looking at Joyce in the fourth panel. She’s really missing the point of what she’s saying.
“I don’t love him, Joyce. I’m just bonking him because he’s a sub and hung like yhe Mull of Kintyre. You want some?”
Are you trying to summon Yoto
Maybe Joyce learning what bisexuality is in this matter will lead to her questioning her own sexuality.
Sure, she should’ve learned in gender studies already, but I guess that class was crisis mode and open discussion free-for-all fights all the time anyway, so some gaps can be explained away without implicating Lesley.
OH NO, now she’s a tumbrl-girl!
Is a “tumbrl” the vehicle that takes people condemned as *phobes to the executionr?
Eh, it’s more like a clown car chasing someone with Benny Hill theme playing in the background.
It would be, but yeah don’t.
I wouldn’t expect anything like an illuninating sit-down chat now, though. Perhaps a short practical in the concepts of boundaries and “business, nonya”, but not a lecture.
Joyce here demonstrating the subtle difference between courage and stupidity.
Ruth and Jason killin’ it in The Odd Couple 2: Femur Apocalypse.
Awwwwww
Joyce is so cute and lovable.
Even in her “Atheism is the best ja**ss moments”, she just only wants all to be happy.
“If you can love whoever you want why aren’t you loving a girl???”
Bisexual erasure aside, Joyce please stop projecting so hard /jk
I didn’t even think of this strip as the most pressing evidence of Bisexual Joyce.
Testing Testing 1, 2, 3
Thank you Willis <3
I’m kinda hoping Ruth (or somebody else) explains the concept of bisexuality to Joyce soon, because it seems clear she either isn’t aware of it, or she was taught an incorrect meaning of it.
God I hope it’s off screen cuz there’s no way that won’t be the most boring comic strip possible.
See, it’s a good relationship.
There’s a really strange ad that keeps popping up on mobile for me for otterbox that takes up about the bottom 1/4 of the screen and is making it impossible for me to scroll to the bittom of the page and even make a comment.
As a bi person this is like… The LEAST obnoxious variety of Obnoxious Straights to me.
Like ok it’s condescending as fuck but at least she’s not groping Ruth out of nowhere assuming that because she’s bi she’s dtf anywhere any time with anyone, or a straight dude being gross and asking for threesome, or a lesbian telling Ruth she hates bi chicks and wants to curb stomp them into oblivion because they’re just fucking around for attention till they can go back to straight life or etc (all of those are things I have directly experienced as a bi person and aren’t even close to the most egregious. It gets SO MUCH WORSE than this). It’s problematic and cringey sure but at least it’s not actively and willfully hateful? Like as obnoxious as Joyce is being right now at least it in part comes from a place of trying to encourage self acceptance.
Also I’ll toss a big thanks to Willis for building a comments section where we don’t have a bajillion self appointed Arbiters of Real Queerness arguing that maybe this is biphobia but even if it is it doesn’t count or matter as a Real Microaggression because Ruth is in a get relationship right now and has passing privilege and if she doesn’t want people to assume she’s trying to go back in the closet she should date only girls. Instead people here understand exactly why and how Joyce is fucking up and aren’t bending themselves into pretzels trying to justify it. Thanks for being awesome folks, you have absolutely no idea how hard I’ve been bracing for crap when I’ve been opening the comments ever since this arc started and so far I haven’t seen it. 🙂
+1
I love Joyce. She is trying so hard to do the right thing to the best of her understanding! Bless her heartTM. lol
Joyce just needs to punch herself. Equally as funny, solves Ruth’s dilemma!
She escaped fundamentalism and Christianity itself but not yet evangelicalism
lolol
I’m forever and always Team LEAVE RUTH ALONE
Great, now I’m making my own fanfiction like Amber, but it’s punch-related.
I was really hoping Dorothy would stop her…
Is Dorothy just watching? Recording?
Dorothy has left for Yale.
You try and stop an overeager college student from jumping a table. You can’t I’ve seen people try
Then how will she learn?
Obvs not gonna happen with Ruth for obvious reasons, but someone with Walk’s humor and a self-awareness I’m unsure is in this comic would def respond to “you can love whoever you want” with “yep, doing just that. thanks for the call of reassurance though”
I forgot… How did she react to
BillieJennifer dating Asher?Not at all really, but she hasn’t seen them since she came out as atheist.
Gotta give Joyce some credit she’s doing her best she’s just got her wires all crossed this ways and thataways
It’s worth remembering Joyce has personal experience with re-closeting with Ethan. She might think that’s what’s going on here.
I mean, she’s still super wrong, and addressing it in the worst possible way, but I think it’s meaningful context.
Hey, just realized that no one’s been complaining about Joyce outing Ruth. Isn’t that a thing we’re supposed to get upset about?
I mean we don’t know how many people are within earshot, and pretty sure Jason knows considering they met when Ruth’s date with Daisey fell apart
Definitely still something Joyce should be careful about
Outing Ruth to whomst’d’ve
Also maybe be less transparent in using phrasing like “isn’t that a thing we’re supposed to get upset about.”
Man I am really starting to hate Joyce.
I don’t disagree, but the consequences mean we shouldn’t.
Also… morals.
…JAson, aren’t you cold ?
Seeing Jason without a bowtie is squicking me out.