I can’t say I would be 100% on anyone. Even the straightest or gayest person I can think of I wouldn’t be shocked if I heard they hooked up with a an unexpected partner. People are complex and I feel like there’s nothing about a person I could ever attribute to 0% or 100%.
90% sure is as far as I’d go on anyone. And even then I’m kinda high balling it.
Vampire emperors to the side, many people may have converged on the same thought and the thought still be wrong. Many people converged on the thought that homosexuality was a mental illness and could be cured.
Yeah, but it’s still a dumb idea and a bad one to use to make this argument, since the whole point of the line is that Jennifer is bisexual and in denial about it. It’s not a deep insight into what straight people are really like, it’s a misrepresentation of straights so that she could keep thinking of herself as one.
“Everyone” doesn’t try it. It’s not “inevitable”. She’s just in denial about what her attractions mean about her sexuality.
Now some people who present as straight are in denial or are closeted, so Yotomoe’s point that you can never be sure about someone is well taken. That’s just not what Jennifer was saying.
It may have been Yotomoe’s point, but it wasn’t Wagstaff’s. Wagstaff’s point was that Billie may have been in denial and that may have been authorial intent, but that didn’t keep her from being right. And in evidence of her being right alluded to the fact that many other people had converged on the same thought.
Unless I lost track of the conversation, which is always possible.
There are 24 hour analog clocks which would only be right once a day if they were stopped. Some clocks report not just the time of day but also the date to one extent or another, so it could be that it’d only be right once a year, or maybe if it was really fancy it could be stuck saying it was February 29, 91.
I’ve seen plenty of analog clocks that lacked hands, so gave no time. Also, if the clock’s designed… poorly for our time keeping system, it can present a time that’s just wrong. For example, I’ve seen clocks that reported 26 or more hours or 70+ minutes and seconds, and a 13 hour clock that also reported if it was AM or FM. (To be clear, it was not a clock radio, and if it was running, it would switch between the two readings every 13 hours.)
There’s also the analog clocks that were broken in such a way their mechanism would still run, just not correctly, such as the one that ran about 10% slower than it should, so it was right once about every 5 days. That’s not stopped, but the first version of that quote that I saw said “broken clock”, rather than “stopped clock”.
The quote was wrong before it was outdated. Sure, 0s and 6s on that scale are quite rare, but the idea that the scale only has integer values or even sufficient is interesting to me. It was a model that was interesting at the time when the Kinsey Institute made it, but I’m pretty sure that at least some people in that institute have since figured out that it’s just a single axis, of which there are at least a couple that are interesting, and not everyone is even there.
I mean, where do asexual people fit on the Kinsey scale? How about pure demisexuals? I mean, you could put the demis as a 3, but I feel like that suggests something about them that’s not necessarily the case.
There’s also this interesting idea that ‘everybody thinks or tries’. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but since we’re not telepathic and none of us know *everybody*, it seems like it’s a pretty big leap to make.
You may have seen “broken” first, but the original version is closer to “stopped” and it’s only there that it makes sense. Obviously there are ways to break even an old analog clock so that it’s never right, but stopped does make sense.
Broken or not, a clock only measures an agreement between people. It’s not like clocks measure some objectively true 4 o’clock or whathaveyou. All time measurements are made up.
Dogs (and wizards) are never late.
No. There are people who are 100% gay, and people who are 100% straight, and statements like this negate them. Most people might be a little bi, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to negate those who aren’t. Furthermore, there are asexual and aromantic people who have no interest in anyone, and implying that everyone is a little bit bi can be extremely alienating to these people and make them feel broken. This is NOT one of those situations where a broken clock is right twice a day.
Basically this. Claiming “everyone” is bi is saying for example, basically, that Becky would be happy in an opposite-sex relationship “if she just found the right guy”, which is just…eughh.
“Everyone gets curious” in the sense that I don’t think there are as many folks who identify as Straight that are total Kinsey 0s, but that really only manifests when discussing attraction in harsh, compartmentalized labels of Straight, Gay and In-Between. If Walky goes “Jacob if I had to pick a guy” I don’t think that stops making him Straight like he’d identify, it means there’s this one minute crack in an otherwise solid state of “I like girls.” As a statement I think “everyone gets curious” is more along the lines of “it’s a fairly common and natural thing to feel even if feeling it is as far as it goes for you”, but then my only experience with that curiosity was, actually, definitely having the capacity to fall in love with other men and want to smooch their lips and touch their butts, so maybe I am also biased.
The other conversation is that Billie absolutely meant it as “look I only went down on my high school girlfriend as much as I did because I was curious, okay? It didn’t mean anything, I’m Straight”, and because Billie is a cartoon character we do know for a fact that she has an equally large capacity for attraction for men and women and that this statement is one intended to illustrate Billie’s denial at anything that could Other her.
Yeah, while it could be reduced to “Everyone gets curious” even if the result of that curiosity is a quick, “Nope, not for me”, the quote as a whole implies far more than that. Especially in the context it came from.
It is far from a useful representation of human sexuality.
I was really just agreeing with what Yotomoe said when I quoted “Jennifer”. Looking back, I guess I kind of took that out of context, and for that blunder, I am sorry.
Evidently, Becky is as certain she’s a lesbian as much as it is possible for literally anyone to be certain of something like that.
o3o Didn’t think this’d get people so divisively mad. I didn’t mean to say that people ain’t what the say they are and that shouldn’t be respected. More that people aren’t necessarily computers that just fulfill one role like a logical binary. We’re complex and how we filter what we like has a BAZILLION factors that even we ourselves may not understand. It’s just my personal feelings on the matter of attraction and how we see it. Especially since people often times try to force people into a box. These terms are made to explain how we feel to others. They aren’t confining definitions that we must steadfastly adhere to or a box that everyone has to figure out where they fit in.
I don’t think most of us have a problem with what you said. I know I didn’t.
It was Wagstaff using Jennifer’s quote in support, which goes a lot farther than you did that sparked the disagreement. Even if he didn’t really mean it that way.
I imagine Joyce isn’t gay but she would still marry Dorothy in a heartbeat. In the same way that my best friend is gay but he still says he’d marry his friend(a girl).
I dunno, staring at another woman’s rack while talking about crawling in there doesn’t help a “not gay” case. My theory is that Joyce is deeply closeted bicurious, but I’m willing to accept whatever orientation she turns out to be.
If it’s not just a platonic crush up to 11, I think of Joyce as biromantic but heterosexual. There are aspects of other women Joyce is attracted to, but not sexually.
That’s kind of my impression.
Even her much cited comment on Jennifer’s breasts doesn’t read as sexual to me.
Still, it could just be her deep repression of everything sexual even more amplified in the case of same sex urges.
I mean, I don’t think she’s entirely serious, although it’s become a running gag at this point that literally everyone but Joyce things Joyce has it for Dorothy.
Pretty sure the point of that sentence is not really Dorothy’s orientation but a subtle hint for Joe to acknowledge that his feelings for Joyce are romantic.
Or conversely; he’s developing really strong affection for Joyce, is angry at himself for not doing more to support her, and then is also projecting that anger onto friends for not doing more as well.
Hmm … it’s true we haven’t seen anyone tell him, and it’s true he hasn’t mentioned it specifically, but since she basically told everyone else at the end of the first book — and he’s Danny’s roommate as well as Amber’s stepbrother now — I imagine she’s probably told him by this point. Especially the way he phrases it in the first panel: “…THERE for her … EVERY TIME”. It would be an odd thing to say if he thought she was just someone who happened to be at the Ryan assault party.
I think Joe’s making the mistake of thinking that the way things have been is the way things always have to be, but I mean, that’s a consistent thing he has had to work through, thinking people cannot change.
As for Amber, I mean, she listened, but I question if she’s got more to input here, anyway. You and Joyce got to heart-to-heart in Amber’s room, call that a win for sibling powers.
I don’t get what Joe is talking about. Amber’s acting like a good sister. Dismisses your concerns with a joke, steals your food, and then forces you to do the thing that you always wanted to do but could never work up the courage to do. That’s what my sisters have always been like, anyway.
In the interest of fairness, Joe doesn’t actually know what it’s like to have a sibling. I’m pretty sure he’s saying this because the interaction isn’t going how he’d like it to go.
Also in the interest of fairness, there was no way for this whole interaction to end in a way that would both satisfy Joe and give him the advice/help he needs. He’s in a bit of a bind.
Striaght people can be friends! I know it’s rare, as we straight people are known to absolutely despise one another, but I’ll have you know we can sometimes be VERY friendly.
Does Amber ever wonder to herself how she ended up with two step brothers who started off as womanizers before going through character development connected to Joyce?
At one point Willis said in a Tumblr post that Faz wouldn’t be related by blood to her in DoA, but I’m guessing they’ve changed their mind since then given that the text itself has strongly brought up the possibility that Blaine is Faz’s father.
Was Faz actually a womanizer, though? After Book 10, it comes across more like he’s deliberately trying to push people away rather than him being a genuine creep.
Okay so Amber should not win this. I don’t care how in shape or acrobatic she might be, Carla always wears skates and thus has huge speed advantage, and frankly she’s every bit as athletic as Amber if not more so and has a height and reach advantage. What I’m saying her is Amber better not be eating cake in any following strips. It will break my suspension of disbelief!
What you’ve failed to take into account is that either of these characters could feasibly be in possession of a grappling hook, and the hypothetical hook’s existence cannot be denied until someone in the comic mentions its absence.
To wit: if Amber has the cake, she simply hooked it before Carla got in range.
If Carla has the cake, then the possibilities are: No hooks, or Carla got in range and hooked it before Amber could.
Truly, the most compelling mystery in Dumbing of Age thus far.
I do believe that Amber is closer though. And the traction roller skates may vary between carpet and marble, which the floor looks like it might alternate between regularly.
You folks are all adding numerous extra variables to artificially bloat Amber’s chances. If you pay attention to last strip there is a vague Joe shaped silhouette in panel one at the opposite far end of this lobby.
I think it all comes down to whether Carla has noticed that there is only one slice of cake left. She may know there’s cake, but why make a mad dash if you’re thinking it’s a big ol’ sheet cake? Amber, on the other hand, knows the stakes.
That’s not even an argument. Superman isn’t connected to the speed force and is therefore FAR slower than Flash. The comics answered that question ages ago.
We’ve also established that Superman can travel fast enough to go backwards in time (but normally doesn’t because of Kryptonian ideals). Flash has no such behavioral restrictions, and yet he never has.
Flash has went back in time plenty. There’s a pretty important comic/animated movie called Flashpoint all about the dude going back in time and fucking it up so bad he rebooted the DC Universe.
Flash has traveled in time more than once. More than one Flash, in fact. One of them is the grandson of another Flash from when he was married and living in the future.
I don’t want to challenge people’s lives experiences, but based on my own experience of being a former frequent (once weekly) skater (began on traditional skates, wound up on blades eventually), they’re not actually very fast over a short distance- sure, top speed is great, and acceleration above a certain speed is decently good, but over about 20-30′? A sprinter wins hands-down. There’s just far more low-speed acceleration available.
For car comparisons, it’s like the difference between an AWD sports car with 300hp (Evo, WRX, Skyline GT-R), and a RWD sportscar with 450hp (Mustang GT, Corvette). The AWDs win 0-60 hands-down, but by the 1/4 mile the RWDs have not only caught up, but are moving at a considerably quicker pace.
So ultimately, the distance or proximity to cake will define whether the skates are an advantage or disadvantage.
Amber’s blunt “yes” when Joe calls her a bad sister makes me wonder what’s happened to Faz in the aftermath of Blaine’s death. Like, we don’t know exactly what Yuri’s relationship with Blaine was like, and we don’t know exactly how she reacted to his death, but she already expressed a marked dislike of Amber back when Faz ran away to IU, so I kinda doubt she’d have let the poor kid have any contact with Amber since then, if indeed Amber’s tried to reach out at all.
Yuri hated Amber because Blaine resented having to pay child support for Amber’s tuition, and passed that resentment along to Yuri. Yuri thinks that if Blaine simply no longer had to pay tuition, they would be better off. That may have turned into personal resentment against Amber, but I think it is more Yuri is just a terrible person like Blaine.
I don’t know. I’m kind of ready to give Yuri a second chance. Blaine clearly held all the influence in power in that relationship, possibly having an affair with her when she was underage? I think his opinions did a lot to warp her own. With him gone their might be some lingering resentment especially if he was the bread winner..(although chance of a lucrative life insurance policy might remedy some of her financial troubles) so maybe she still hates Amber. But I think there’s a chance she’s not actually a horrible person. We don’t really know much about her to begin with.
Sadly, one can be both an abuse victim and a terrible person. It’s definitely possible we’ll see some redemption for her when Faz returns, but there’s probably more drama in leaving her as an antagonist in that arc.
I’m not sure what needs to be explained. Some intense stuff happened to Joyce. Joe wasn’t there for her. Joe thinks she needs someone who was there for her and so he is not worthy. What’s to understand?
In the first semester, Joyce was roofied, kidnapped twice, and her parents got a divorce. Joe doesn’t think he’s a suitable companion for Joyce because he wasn’t there with her when she went through these things.
He doesn’t know Joyce was roofied, but he does know something happened there, which put her in a fragile state.
The way I interpreted it, she’s saying that to make a point that Joe is just making excuses not to step up and be there for Joyce now.
Put another way, he means to say that he thinks she deserves someone who WOULD have been there for her, but since anyone (except Dorothy) having already been there for her is impossible and it doesn’t mean he can’t be there now, it’s really just a lame excuse. So Amber sasses him by taking him literally.
The principle being that I’m eating it (or I was) and you aren’t. Though you could be. Well maybe not this specific (cup)cake. But this sequence is probably going to last for a few more days, so if you act now, you’ll be prepared for next time.
I think Dorothy is in somewhere on the Demi-Ace spectrum? Sex is never a primary or even secondary motivator for her. She’s just there doing what she has to.
Sex has absolutely been a primary motivator for her. She almost slept with her ex she dumped months ago because he grew his hair out and got hotter a few days ago from the stories perspective
I’d dispute that her various interactions with Walky were primarily about sex. They’re at least as much romantic as sexual. In the “Walky is hot because of long hair” sequence, I think she was tempted to get back together with him as a couple, not just to jump him once.
Of course, repeated examples of her being attracted to Walky doesn’t counter her being some kind of Demi, if I understand the jargon correctly. Not routinely physically attracted, but does have sexual desire for specific people she has emotional attachments to.
Not sure if that fits with her other statements on sex or not.
This is certainly true, but it’s been very focused on Walky. I don’t think she’s shown any interest in anyone else. Not that she’s had many other options.
Like it’s not necessarily just that Joe was No Feelings Fun Sex Bro, it’s that everything he did was in service to never hurting himself or his partners, and then Joyce told him in no uncertain terms that he contributed to her fear of men because she knew it wasn’t just Bad People who could turn her into an object, a friend could do it too.
I think part of what’s motivating a lot of Joe’s behaviour right now isn’t necessarily just that he thinks he’s not good enough for Joyce, it’s that he thinks he’s not good enough for Joyce as a result of the person he not only was, but thought was an ideal. I put it like this once, where if Joe and Joyce ever had some kind of romantic instance between each other and someone saw it, not only would the immediate assumption be “Joe is taking advantage of the naive churchy girl”, Joe would know that they’d say that because that’s what he wanted to do that time they went on a date.
And he’s far from convinced he’s not still that kind of person. That like his dad, while his feelings and intent might seem genuine at the moment, they’ll change and he’ll hurt her.
His dad is a bone doctor and well-off, but not THAT well off. The daughter of a multimillionaire on the other hand (and other end of the hallway) could definitely afford to buy her own cake.
Given the scale of Ruttech that we’ve seen (they make both phone operating systems and motorcycle engines) they’re almost certainly a huge tech company. Multimillionaires is probably an understatement
Carla can also afford buy herself another cake. Heck, she can probably build a cake baking machine. Or, you know, send a drone out to retrieve one for her.
Joe’s frailty and insecurity are sad and cute to see. It hurts to see him think so low about himself, but it’s sweet see how he can’t stop thinking about Joyce’s well-being.
Sadly, with zero capacity of see what she would like.
Regrettably, it has always been Dorothy’s plans to move on to better things and she has learned too late that she likes where she is right now just fine.
That’s the point I’m trying to make: Her Life Plan requires the Ivy League but she does seem to be regretting that fact and wishing that there was another way.
Y’know, Joe, if you want to be there for her when stuff goes down in the future, your best bet is to actually spend time with her. Who knows, maybe then she will let you know whether or not she thinks you are worthy of her.
Given Amber’s antipathy towards professional mental help, probably not. Amber thinks she is a uniquely terrible rage machine, finally started to confront those thoughts right before the timeskip, and, presumably, Mike’s death drove her back into her hole.
And that’s if Walky’s actually correct about the campus therapists in reference to Amber or if he said it for himself to justify why he didn’t get help after the trauma of Mike’s death, or if he did, why that help didn’t work.
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I mean, come on. SISTER.
/insert IDontKnowWhatIExpected.gif
Telling Amber she’s bad and expecting disagreement.
But they’re not on Garbage roof!
If you have Garbage Roof in your heart, you can carry it anywhere.
Was the real Garbage Roof the friends we made along the way?
I feel like the smart thing here is to let Carla have the cake.
And so began the Great Cake Wars of 20XX.
2021 until next year.
“20XX”
Ultra Car was always my favorite Megaman boss.
i mean anything’s better than oil man
Ultra Car sounds more like an Maverick than it does a Robot Master tbh.
The Great Cake Wars of 20X6.
Carla, her mouth flashing between tiny-closed and ridiculously-open but her jaw doesn’t move: “Is this a challenge over the lastpieceofcake?!”
Amber’s mental voiceover, while she’s shown in profile in a three-frame running animation loop: “I have to get that cake before Carla gets that cake!”
“Thousands of years ago…”
I thought Carla prefered pie.
Only for revenge.
She prefers Mary get the pie
In the FAAAAAAACE
Carla deserves the cake
Many have deserved the cake but I got there first.
“I suggest a new strategy – let the Rutten win.”
AMBER VS CARLA
FOR ALL THE CAKE (well, the last slice)
“I’m pretty sure Dorothy’s straight.”
I mean, we were all thinking it, but… how sure are you, exactly, Amber? Like, on a scale of… I dunno, zero to six
Dorothy herself said she’s probably a zero, so
Probably a 0 or a 6. Whichever end is the very straight end. Right next to Sal.
I can’t say I would be 100% on anyone. Even the straightest or gayest person I can think of I wouldn’t be shocked if I heard they hooked up with a an unexpected partner. People are complex and I feel like there’s nothing about a person I could ever attribute to 0% or 100%.
90% sure is as far as I’d go on anyone. And even then I’m kinda high balling it.
” I think, like, everyone thinks about it or tries it out eventually. We get curious. It’s basically inevitable. “
— Jennifer “Billy” Billingsworth
She’s got something of a biased perspective.
Well, still worth considering what she said there. Even a stopped clock is right two times a day.
Willis’s hovertext from that quoted comic said Billie was biased there, IIRC.
The point still stands. Even blood-thirsty emperors on one occasion express worthwhile thoughts.
The author is incidental. The idea always stands or falls on its own merits. Many people may have converged on the same thought.
Vampire emperors to the side, many people may have converged on the same thought and the thought still be wrong. Many people converged on the thought that homosexuality was a mental illness and could be cured.
Yeah, but it’s still a dumb idea and a bad one to use to make this argument, since the whole point of the line is that Jennifer is bisexual and in denial about it. It’s not a deep insight into what straight people are really like, it’s a misrepresentation of straights so that she could keep thinking of herself as one.
“Everyone” doesn’t try it. It’s not “inevitable”. She’s just in denial about what her attractions mean about her sexuality.
Now some people who present as straight are in denial or are closeted, so Yotomoe’s point that you can never be sure about someone is well taken. That’s just not what Jennifer was saying.
It may have been Yotomoe’s point, but it wasn’t Wagstaff’s. Wagstaff’s point was that Billie may have been in denial and that may have been authorial intent, but that didn’t keep her from being right. And in evidence of her being right alluded to the fact that many other people had converged on the same thought.
Unless I lost track of the conversation, which is always possible.
Yeah, and I was saying that’s wrong, partly because it’s not the same as Yotomoe’s point, which does make sense.
Sorry, we’re digital now. A broken clock doesn’t give any time.
and most digital clocks are only right once a second.
There are 24 hour analog clocks which would only be right once a day if they were stopped. Some clocks report not just the time of day but also the date to one extent or another, so it could be that it’d only be right once a year, or maybe if it was really fancy it could be stuck saying it was February 29, 91.
I’ve seen plenty of analog clocks that lacked hands, so gave no time. Also, if the clock’s designed… poorly for our time keeping system, it can present a time that’s just wrong. For example, I’ve seen clocks that reported 26 or more hours or 70+ minutes and seconds, and a 13 hour clock that also reported if it was AM or FM. (To be clear, it was not a clock radio, and if it was running, it would switch between the two readings every 13 hours.)
There’s also the analog clocks that were broken in such a way their mechanism would still run, just not correctly, such as the one that ran about 10% slower than it should, so it was right once about every 5 days. That’s not stopped, but the first version of that quote that I saw said “broken clock”, rather than “stopped clock”.
The quote was wrong before it was outdated. Sure, 0s and 6s on that scale are quite rare, but the idea that the scale only has integer values or even sufficient is interesting to me. It was a model that was interesting at the time when the Kinsey Institute made it, but I’m pretty sure that at least some people in that institute have since figured out that it’s just a single axis, of which there are at least a couple that are interesting, and not everyone is even there.
I mean, where do asexual people fit on the Kinsey scale? How about pure demisexuals? I mean, you could put the demis as a 3, but I feel like that suggests something about them that’s not necessarily the case.
There’s also this interesting idea that ‘everybody thinks or tries’. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but since we’re not telepathic and none of us know *everybody*, it seems like it’s a pretty big leap to make.
You may have seen “broken” first, but the original version is closer to “stopped” and it’s only there that it makes sense. Obviously there are ways to break even an old analog clock so that it’s never right, but stopped does make sense.
Broken or not, a clock only measures an agreement between people. It’s not like clocks measure some objectively true 4 o’clock or whathaveyou. All time measurements are made up.
Dogs (and wizards) are never late.
No. There are people who are 100% gay, and people who are 100% straight, and statements like this negate them. Most people might be a little bi, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to negate those who aren’t. Furthermore, there are asexual and aromantic people who have no interest in anyone, and implying that everyone is a little bit bi can be extremely alienating to these people and make them feel broken. This is NOT one of those situations where a broken clock is right twice a day.
Basically this. Claiming “everyone” is bi is saying for example, basically, that Becky would be happy in an opposite-sex relationship “if she just found the right guy”, which is just…eughh.
She merely said that everyone “tries it out eventually”. Does that imply that they couldn’t discover that they weren’t bi?
There’s a couple conversations going on.
“Everyone gets curious” in the sense that I don’t think there are as many folks who identify as Straight that are total Kinsey 0s, but that really only manifests when discussing attraction in harsh, compartmentalized labels of Straight, Gay and In-Between. If Walky goes “Jacob if I had to pick a guy” I don’t think that stops making him Straight like he’d identify, it means there’s this one minute crack in an otherwise solid state of “I like girls.” As a statement I think “everyone gets curious” is more along the lines of “it’s a fairly common and natural thing to feel even if feeling it is as far as it goes for you”, but then my only experience with that curiosity was, actually, definitely having the capacity to fall in love with other men and want to smooch their lips and touch their butts, so maybe I am also biased.
The other conversation is that Billie absolutely meant it as “look I only went down on my high school girlfriend as much as I did because I was curious, okay? It didn’t mean anything, I’m Straight”, and because Billie is a cartoon character we do know for a fact that she has an equally large capacity for attraction for men and women and that this statement is one intended to illustrate Billie’s denial at anything that could Other her.
Yeah, while it could be reduced to “Everyone gets curious” even if the result of that curiosity is a quick, “Nope, not for me”, the quote as a whole implies far more than that. Especially in the context it came from.
It is far from a useful representation of human sexuality.
So Becky doesn’t really know she’s a lesbian until she “tries out” a guy?
I was really just agreeing with what Yotomoe said when I quoted “Jennifer”. Looking back, I guess I kind of took that out of context, and for that blunder, I am sorry.
Evidently, Becky is as certain she’s a lesbian as much as it is possible for literally anyone to be certain of something like that.
o3o Didn’t think this’d get people so divisively mad. I didn’t mean to say that people ain’t what the say they are and that shouldn’t be respected. More that people aren’t necessarily computers that just fulfill one role like a logical binary. We’re complex and how we filter what we like has a BAZILLION factors that even we ourselves may not understand. It’s just my personal feelings on the matter of attraction and how we see it. Especially since people often times try to force people into a box. These terms are made to explain how we feel to others. They aren’t confining definitions that we must steadfastly adhere to or a box that everyone has to figure out where they fit in.
I don’t think most of us have a problem with what you said. I know I didn’t.
It was Wagstaff using Jennifer’s quote in support, which goes a lot farther than you did that sparked the disagreement. Even if he didn’t really mean it that way.
Well, a stopped analogue clock. A stopped digital clock would just be blank.
*Laughs in broken SMPTE timecode clock*
I can’t tell whether or not that was an intended pun on BIased.
It was not
I love how this implies that Joyce isn’t, especially for Dorothy, because everyone accepts that as a given at this point.
I imagine Joyce isn’t gay but she would still marry Dorothy in a heartbeat. In the same way that my best friend is gay but he still says he’d marry his friend(a girl).
I dunno, staring at another woman’s rack while talking about crawling in there doesn’t help a “not gay” case. My theory is that Joyce is deeply closeted bicurious, but I’m willing to accept whatever orientation she turns out to be.
Not a bad point. I just always took it to represent the SHEER power of Billie’s Billies.
Possible, though her phase of “I wanna dress Sal in my clothes” doesn’t really help her case either.
Yeah I’m leaning ‘Joyce ain’t straight’ too.
That was also Lucy’s first impression of her.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/proselytize/
If it’s not just a platonic crush up to 11, I think of Joyce as biromantic but heterosexual. There are aspects of other women Joyce is attracted to, but not sexually.
That’s kind of my impression.
Even her much cited comment on Jennifer’s breasts doesn’t read as sexual to me.
Still, it could just be her deep repression of everything sexual even more amplified in the case of same sex urges.
I mean, I don’t think she’s entirely serious, although it’s become a running gag at this point that literally everyone but Joyce things Joyce has it for Dorothy.
Dorothy says she’s cis het
Regardless of the probability of anyone’s sexual orientation being at any point on any scale, what did Amber mean by her comment?
Pretty sure the point of that sentence is not really Dorothy’s orientation but a subtle hint for Joe to acknowledge that his feelings for Joyce are romantic.
I think Joe’s expecting to much from a sibling he’s only had for like 2 months…also just Amber in general.
Joe is building up the tallest damn pedestal he can so that he can explain that he’s not worthy of being mounted on it.
Makes sense that he’d build one for Amber while he’s at it.
Oy oy?
Sounds about right
Or conversely; he’s developing really strong affection for Joyce, is angry at himself for not doing more to support her, and then is also projecting that anger onto friends for not doing more as well.
Joe wasn’t there for the kidnapping so he has no idea he has an ex-superhero for a sister.
Hmm … it’s true we haven’t seen anyone tell him, and it’s true he hasn’t mentioned it specifically, but since she basically told everyone else at the end of the first book — and he’s Danny’s roommate as well as Amber’s stepbrother now — I imagine she’s probably told him by this point. Especially the way he phrases it in the first panel: “…THERE for her … EVERY TIME”. It would be an odd thing to say if he thought she was just someone who happened to be at the Ryan assault party.
I’m sure Danny would like to talk about feelings with you Joe
Carla is also ace, so cake is clearly something she’s more likely to get than Amber.
Roller skates give her a speed advantage, so Amber better get a move on.
And Carla’s got reach on Amber.
Okay, pretty much every female cast member, but definitely Amber.
Amber works out and trains and has mad acrobatic skills. So not clear.
Amber also has wheelies.
Probably not wearing them at the moment, though.
While Carla probably is.
I think Joe’s making the mistake of thinking that the way things have been is the way things always have to be, but I mean, that’s a consistent thing he has had to work through, thinking people cannot change.
As for Amber, I mean, she listened, but I question if she’s got more to input here, anyway. You and Joyce got to heart-to-heart in Amber’s room, call that a win for sibling powers.
I don’t get what Joe is talking about. Amber’s acting like a good sister. Dismisses your concerns with a joke, steals your food, and then forces you to do the thing that you always wanted to do but could never work up the courage to do. That’s what my sisters have always been like, anyway.
Since time immemorial.
In the interest of fairness, Joe doesn’t actually know what it’s like to have a sibling. I’m pretty sure he’s saying this because the interaction isn’t going how he’d like it to go.
Also in the interest of fairness, there was no way for this whole interaction to end in a way that would both satisfy Joe and give him the advice/help he needs. He’s in a bit of a bind.
Striaght people can be friends! I know it’s rare, as we straight people are known to absolutely despise one another, but I’ll have you know we can sometimes be VERY friendly.
if only I were gay I could wiggle my eyebrows sugguestively and ask, “exactly how friendly is very friendly?”
Does Amber ever wonder to herself how she ended up with two step brothers who started off as womanizers before going through character development connected to Joyce?
Joe is a step brother. Faz is a half-brother.
Has the half-brother thing actually been confirmed in this universe?
It’s something Amber suspects but doesn’t want to think about
At one point Willis said in a Tumblr post that Faz wouldn’t be related by blood to her in DoA, but I’m guessing they’ve changed their mind since then given that the text itself has strongly brought up the possibility that Blaine is Faz’s father.
Willis said on Patreon around the time that strip came out that they’d forgotten they’d ever made that Tumblr post, so yeah.
I’m willing to bet that Rose and Zaph aren’t Blaine’s kids this time, though.
Was Faz actually a womanizer, though? After Book 10, it comes across more like he’s deliberately trying to push people away rather than him being a genuine creep.
Okay so Amber should not win this. I don’t care how in shape or acrobatic she might be, Carla always wears skates and thus has huge speed advantage, and frankly she’s every bit as athletic as Amber if not more so and has a height and reach advantage. What I’m saying her is Amber better not be eating cake in any following strips. It will break my suspension of disbelief!
What you’ve failed to take into account is that either of these characters could feasibly be in possession of a grappling hook, and the hypothetical hook’s existence cannot be denied until someone in the comic mentions its absence.
To wit: if Amber has the cake, she simply hooked it before Carla got in range.
If Carla has the cake, then the possibilities are: No hooks, or Carla got in range and hooked it before Amber could.
Truly, the most compelling mystery in Dumbing of Age thus far.
I do believe that Amber is closer though. And the traction roller skates may vary between carpet and marble, which the floor looks like it might alternate between regularly.
Also, Carla may not yet recognize that there is cake at stake.
You folks are all adding numerous extra variables to artificially bloat Amber’s chances. If you pay attention to last strip there is a vague Joe shaped silhouette in panel one at the opposite far end of this lobby.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/hidingout/
That to me establishes at least equal distance to the proximity of cake for both Amber and Carla. This is purely a test of speed.
And I’d argue Carla is more adept at rolling on her skates than she is at walking virtually neutralizing any disadvantage mixed terrain would provide.
Finally Joyce notified everyone. Carla is part of everyone. She knows there’s cake there.
The only chance Amber has is if Carla has no interest in cake which is a 50/50 gamble at best.
I think it all comes down to whether Carla has noticed that there is only one slice of cake left. She may know there’s cake, but why make a mad dash if you’re thinking it’s a big ol’ sheet cake? Amber, on the other hand, knows the stakes.
I feel like this is one of those arguments like Superman vs the Flash.
That’s not even an argument. Superman isn’t connected to the speed force and is therefore FAR slower than Flash. The comics answered that question ages ago.
We’ve also established that Superman can travel fast enough to go backwards in time (but normally doesn’t because of Kryptonian ideals). Flash has no such behavioral restrictions, and yet he never has.
Flash has went back in time plenty. There’s a pretty important comic/animated movie called Flashpoint all about the dude going back in time and fucking it up so bad he rebooted the DC Universe.
Comics since the 1980’s don’t aren’t cannon and don’t count, on account of the 90’s being when I went back to grad school and stopped reading them.
Flash has traveled in time more than once. More than one Flash, in fact. One of them is the grandson of another Flash from when he was married and living in the future.
I don’t want to challenge people’s lives experiences, but based on my own experience of being a former frequent (once weekly) skater (began on traditional skates, wound up on blades eventually), they’re not actually very fast over a short distance- sure, top speed is great, and acceleration above a certain speed is decently good, but over about 20-30′? A sprinter wins hands-down. There’s just far more low-speed acceleration available.
For car comparisons, it’s like the difference between an AWD sports car with 300hp (Evo, WRX, Skyline GT-R), and a RWD sportscar with 450hp (Mustang GT, Corvette). The AWDs win 0-60 hands-down, but by the 1/4 mile the RWDs have not only caught up, but are moving at a considerably quicker pace.
So ultimately, the distance or proximity to cake will define whether the skates are an advantage or disadvantage.
Amber’s blunt “yes” when Joe calls her a bad sister makes me wonder what’s happened to Faz in the aftermath of Blaine’s death. Like, we don’t know exactly what Yuri’s relationship with Blaine was like, and we don’t know exactly how she reacted to his death, but she already expressed a marked dislike of Amber back when Faz ran away to IU, so I kinda doubt she’d have let the poor kid have any contact with Amber since then, if indeed Amber’s tried to reach out at all.
Faz didn’t run away. The whole thing was a setup.
Yuri hated Amber because Blaine resented having to pay child support for Amber’s tuition, and passed that resentment along to Yuri. Yuri thinks that if Blaine simply no longer had to pay tuition, they would be better off. That may have turned into personal resentment against Amber, but I think it is more Yuri is just a terrible person like Blaine.
I don’t know. I’m kind of ready to give Yuri a second chance. Blaine clearly held all the influence in power in that relationship, possibly having an affair with her when she was underage? I think his opinions did a lot to warp her own. With him gone their might be some lingering resentment especially if he was the bread winner..(although chance of a lucrative life insurance policy might remedy some of her financial troubles) so maybe she still hates Amber. But I think there’s a chance she’s not actually a horrible person. We don’t really know much about her to begin with.
Sadly, one can be both an abuse victim and a terrible person. It’s definitely possible we’ll see some redemption for her when Faz returns, but there’s probably more drama in leaving her as an antagonist in that arc.
I really hope you’re wrong, just because Amber needs someone who looks up to her just as much as Faz needs someone to look up to.
Look, dude, it’s first come first serve, she has to move now.
To be honest I don’t understand that first panel at all. Can someone explain it please?
Because when Joe says “you know what I mean” in the fourth, I very much don’t.
I’m not sure what needs to be explained. Some intense stuff happened to Joyce. Joe wasn’t there for her. Joe thinks she needs someone who was there for her and so he is not worthy. What’s to understand?
Ok to be honest that explanation legitimately helped. The “he is not worthy” part was what I was missing.
In the first semester, Joyce was roofied, kidnapped twice, and her parents got a divorce. Joe doesn’t think he’s a suitable companion for Joyce because he wasn’t there with her when she went through these things.
He doesn’t know Joyce was roofied, but he does know something happened there, which put her in a fragile state.
Ok, so is Amber’s point that the only person who fits Joe’s criteria is Dorothy, and she’s not an option due to incompatible orientations?
Yes.
Of course her roommate was also there wielding a baseball bat, but Joyce doesn’t love her the same way she loves Dorothy.
The way I interpreted it, she’s saying that to make a point that Joe is just making excuses not to step up and be there for Joyce now.
Put another way, he means to say that he thinks she deserves someone who WOULD have been there for her, but since anyone (except Dorothy) having already been there for her is impossible and it doesn’t mean he can’t be there now, it’s really just a lame excuse. So Amber sasses him by taking him literally.
Oh, ok! Thanks!
I adore this conversation
But it does make me want cake
I can’t hear you over the sound of eating cake.
Okay, its a bit of a stretch cause it’s more like a cupcake than an actual cake. But the principle is the same.
The principle being that I’m eating it (or I was) and you aren’t. Though you could be. Well maybe not this specific (cup)cake. But this sequence is probably going to last for a few more days, so if you act now, you’ll be prepared for next time.
It takes a few days to eat a cupcake?
Not in my experience.
If you’re the sort that lacks discipline and motivation, maybe.
It would actually take a lot of discipline and motivation for me to make a cupcake last a few days. Or more than a few minutes, really.
This is two strips in a row that have me wanting cake. And sadly, I have none.
And I’m telling you, run out and buy a cake now so that you’ll be prepared for the next strip. You got to plan ahead, people.
And if Willis cuts away to Sal and Danny being adorkable? Well, at least you’ll have cake.
Damn Joes feelings of worthlessness run deeper than I thought.
I don’t like the idea of people being “saved” by someone (though it could be argued my wife “saved” me) but if anyone can Joyce can
Don’t tell Becky. Pretty sure that the idea of being “saved” by someone is one of the foundations of Christianity.
Not that kind of saved, more like taking someone that feels worthless and making them feel like they’re worthy
That’s EXACTLY that kind of saved, except christianity drops the “feels” part.
Unless Carla is bringing a cream pie with her (which can’t be ruled out), Joe can overcome all of this by quickly procuring another cake.
Easily done while standing at the end of a long hall in the middle of campus.
Yep, Joe is aiming at what he thinks is low hanging fruit.
What, you mean getting sisterly support from Amber?
Just go hit up Danny if you want to talk about feels, Joe
He should but some guys find it easier to talk to girls about feels, Joes probably one of them
Fine. Then I nominate Lucy.
You misunderstand. MrSmith is clearly saying that Joe is one of those girls that some guys find it easier to talk to.
If it wasn’t what he was saying, it is now.
Not bad
I think Dorothy is in somewhere on the Demi-Ace spectrum? Sex is never a primary or even secondary motivator for her. She’s just there doing what she has to.
That’s not how she behaved around Walky. She’s merely not into everyone.
The desire to bone Walky has overridden what she thinks is her better judgement on several occasions.
Sex has absolutely been a primary motivator for her. She almost slept with her ex she dumped months ago because he grew his hair out and got hotter a few days ago from the stories perspective
I’d dispute that her various interactions with Walky were primarily about sex. They’re at least as much romantic as sexual. In the “Walky is hot because of long hair” sequence, I think she was tempted to get back together with him as a couple, not just to jump him once.
Of course, repeated examples of her being attracted to Walky doesn’t counter her being some kind of Demi, if I understand the jargon correctly. Not routinely physically attracted, but does have sexual desire for specific people she has emotional attachments to.
Not sure if that fits with her other statements on sex or not.
Dorothy is in her own estimation 18 and effing horny.
This is certainly true, but it’s been very focused on Walky. I don’t think she’s shown any interest in anyone else. Not that she’s had many other options.
Essentially, Amber is telling Joe to stop making excuses.
God damnit Joe you’re not really a bad guy.
Sadly, for some people it can be next to impossible to convince that about themselves.
Well, that’s the problem, he kinda was.
Like it’s not necessarily just that Joe was No Feelings Fun Sex Bro, it’s that everything he did was in service to never hurting himself or his partners, and then Joyce told him in no uncertain terms that he contributed to her fear of men because she knew it wasn’t just Bad People who could turn her into an object, a friend could do it too.
I think part of what’s motivating a lot of Joe’s behaviour right now isn’t necessarily just that he thinks he’s not good enough for Joyce, it’s that he thinks he’s not good enough for Joyce as a result of the person he not only was, but thought was an ideal. I put it like this once, where if Joe and Joyce ever had some kind of romantic instance between each other and someone saw it, not only would the immediate assumption be “Joe is taking advantage of the naive churchy girl”, Joe would know that they’d say that because that’s what he wanted to do that time they went on a date.
And he’s far from convinced he’s not still that kind of person. That like his dad, while his feelings and intent might seem genuine at the moment, they’ll change and he’ll hurt her.
i dont know what joe is talking about this is very Sibling Behaviour to me
You can buy yourself another cake, Mr son of a multimillionnaire
His dad is a bone doctor and well-off, but not THAT well off. The daughter of a multimillionaire on the other hand (and other end of the hallway) could definitely afford to buy her own cake.
Given the scale of Ruttech that we’ve seen (they make both phone operating systems and motorcycle engines) they’re almost certainly a huge tech company. Multimillionaires is probably an understatement
Probably build a drone that could fly to the bakery and buy it for her too.
Carla can also afford buy herself another cake. Heck, she can probably build a cake baking machine. Or, you know, send a drone out to retrieve one for her.
Joe’s frailty and insecurity are sad and cute to see. It hurts to see him think so low about himself, but it’s sweet see how he can’t stop thinking about Joyce’s well-being.
Sadly, with zero capacity of see what she would like.
I think we all agree Dorothy is just in deep-deep denial.
Regrettably, it has always been Dorothy’s plans to move on to better things and she has learned too late that she likes where she is right now just fine.
Has she though? I haven’t seen her reject Yale.
President Keener is going to need those Ivy League connections.
That’s the point I’m trying to make: Her Life Plan requires the Ivy League but she does seem to be regretting that fact and wishing that there was another way.
Joyce absolutely is, but I don’t know about Dorothy. Not about this at least
I had always thought Beck and Clark were in separate buildings, but that sign makes it look like they’re connected?
I got the impression they’re different wings of the same building, and that’s why there’s always visitors going there and back.
I love this.
Joe, you’re not a bad friend because you just happened to not be there when all that bad stuff happened to Joyce last semester.
Y’know, it just occurred to me that Joe is now part of a family unit that kinda includes Faz.
FAZ: “Teach me your ways, Master!”
Oh, so we are reaching the dramatic climax of Book 11!
“Amber vs Carla: Dawn of Cake”
Available evidence indicates that Dawn of Cake was some time back. We are now into Amber vs. Carla: End of Cake.
Though we may never see it play out on account of Willis is a tease.
Y’know, Joe, if you want to be there for her when stuff goes down in the future, your best bet is to actually spend time with her. Who knows, maybe then she will let you know whether or not she thinks you are worthy of her.
Counterpoint: Good sister doesn’t indulge your cringing self-pity
I don’t think Joe has a realistic chance with Joyce regardless of that.
Why not? I thought we were building up to it.
Joe, if you’re already thinking about how you’ve been a bad friend in the past, that means you’re now taking the steps to be a better friend.
Self awareness that there’s a problem is the first step to solving it.
Except it wasn’t Joe’s fault that he wasn’t physically there for those things. To me this reads as an excuse not to get involved.
Is Amber being medicated? She seems a lot more detached and ambivalent than she did before, and her eyes don’t look … well, exactly right.
Given Amber’s antipathy towards professional mental help, probably not. Amber thinks she is a uniquely terrible rage machine, finally started to confront those thoughts right before the timeskip, and, presumably, Mike’s death drove her back into her hole.
And that’s if Walky’s actually correct about the campus therapists in reference to Amber or if he said it for himself to justify why he didn’t get help after the trauma of Mike’s death, or if he did, why that help didn’t work.
Someone’s been hanging around Danny too long.
Time for some character growth, ya Huey Lewis wannabe…
Danny got smooched by a rad motorcycle lady and Joe is standing in the corner pining over the girl he likes but doesn’t know how to tell her.
Oh how the turntables.