Imagine discovering DoA right now and reading this as your first comic. What Dorothy is saying in the last panel sounds like some real kinky stuff without context
After having read your comment and reading what he actually said, I’m now taking it as he believes Dorothy broke up with him because he ISN’T good enough for her and she eventually realized this fact as there’s nothing wrong with her. Even though that’s not what she told him.
That also correlates with the SS Garbage Skowl, since it was established with him not being a good person (garbage) and something being wrong with Amber (also garbage).
As an aside, does anyone remember there being a ship name for Dorothy x Walky? Cuz I don’t. If there wasn’t, can we make one posthumously? Worthy, maybe?
Dorky is their college romance. Worthy is their torrid post-election fuck marathon in 20 years when they’ve both had many losses and set-backs. Walky is in DC (for a non-election reason) He calls her up to congratulate her on her win. She’s single, having decided to give up on personal relations to persue the presidency.[1] They grab dinner to catch up and then Dorothy remembers his line about getting to brag about bangin’ the pres when she was a hit college chick. Dorothy: “Do you want to go 2 / 2 and also bang the president elect?”
[1] Think Elizabeth 1. Married to the throne/country so she can’t have a husband. Hopefully this isn’t what it actually takes to have a female president. Things are certainly looking positive on that front. As much as I wish Biden a long and healthy life, I kind of e
wonder if it’s best for America to be dragged into the 21st century by him dying 3 years into his second term so Ms Harris can get sworn in and then win having had a 7 + 1 year chance to show off her competency to Americans. Then again, reason doesn’t seem to be a deciding factor in a lot of voters decisiin making.
I’m almost curious what reason for being pricks his parents can come up with that won’t be obviously hypocritical.
…..
Oh, who am I kidding, parents don’t care about that.
There probably won’t be a reason but I can definitely imagine Linda saying something like. “Too bad about Dorothy, she was such a pretty girl” within earshot of Lucy if they ever met.
A lot of nitpicking tiny things into no-win situations, a fair bit of “I just don’t like her”, with a sizable dose of hypothetical better matches that just happen to be white. Sprinkle with something about “trying too hard” to “act nice”.
I… just realised my mother-in-law has been doing all that to me my whole relationship with my husband. I mean replace racist with homophobic so there is some differences but like…. huh… hadn’t thought of that.
I’m so confused about what goes through Chucks mind in terms of racism/self loathing. At the same time (for non racist reason) I totally understand just general self-loathing and am very afraid of becoming the aformentioned kind of parent through flawed thinking. It’s a terrible thing for a parent to teach their child to hate themselves.
If you’re talking about Walky’s dad I don’t think he has any self loathing issues. His racism comes more from being complicit to Linda than anything else. I doubt he thinks black people are ugly or hates his own culture. He’s just a dude who married a white girl and saw it as a win and won’t do anything to maybe check her biases even when it comes to his own children. Like if Walky does bring Lucy home he might like her fine, but if Linda starts complaining he’ll just agree with her to avoid the conflict while maybe pulling Walky to the side and asking “Are you sure about this girl?”
There is, unfortunately, a segment of men that are of the opinion that dark-skinned black women are ugly. Walky’s dad might not be that blatant and/or extreme but practically the first thing he said to Sal that parent’s weekend was that he preferred her hair straight. I think there’s some level of colorism there that’s just him and not just him giving Linda a pass.
There’s been a definite tendency among the commentariat here to give Charles a pass as just “weak and going along with Linda” that I don’t think is really supported by the text. Linda’s more active, but Charles really hasn’t shown himself any better.
I don’t think Charles deserves a pass. He definitely has his own internalized bullshit, but I’m interested in where you’re getting his characterization from? Like are there bonus strips he’s featured in? Cause I don’t see much. The reason his comment on Sal’s hair is so memorable is because it’s the only thing of real significance he’s ever said. Linda does all the talking, Charles googles shit and maybe has a dadish comment once or twice.
So I don’t really get his vilification except that in general we don’t like the Walkertons. I get that in general they’re kind of unlikeable and likely racist but I’m not good at reading this subtext. To me Charles doesn’t have nearly as much negative baggage as say Hank does.
There’s really know might. Linda definitely is some kind of racist, the jury’s still out on Charles mostly because he’s not really even a character so it’s hard to judge him.
Well if Booster ever recovers from his head trauma induced amnesia/personality shift he’ll get his shot. Though Mike’s Mike-ness bleeds through with every horrible thing Booster’s cursed existence causes.
What? My head canon on Mike’s “death” is a personality death. It gives Amber’s comments in Replacement an entirely different context that works shockingly well.
see, booster is secretly mike…in, uh, brownface, i guess…because it’s an alternative to mike being dead and replaced with a character maikeruu doesn’t like
and it’s okay to misgender “mike’s new identity” because this new identity is less real, somehow. head trauma made him trans, i guess, idk
Yeah that. It was fun for a bit when all we had was Booster’s silhouette we thought was Mike with a new haircut and then Booster walks in as Walky’s new roommate, but now it feels weird to keep pushing it especially after the importance of being referred to by their correct gender identity that Booster insisted on.
is it okay(er?) to misgender cis people? surely if they’re a canonically cis character it’s less of an affront to the character? but then i guess the nature of joking that someone took on another gender personality on a whim might be insensitive to the plight of trans people in the first place?? but you could also argue mike and/or jennifer were genderqueer — maybe agender …
I’m thinking Mr. Walkerton might be from the kind of family that hoped their children would marry someone “more white” rather than someone “more black”. Which Mr. Walkerton did, and perhaps hoped the children would be “more white” as well (I think it was actually stated at some point – by Sal? – that the parents preferred Walky to Sal because he looked “less black” or something like that). And that now he, and perhaps Mrs Walkerton as well, would be hoping for their children to marry someone “more white”, give them white grandchildren etc. as well. Now, I admit I have no idea how common this way of thinking would be in the US, or if it exists there – I know in some countries it is definitely a thing (or at least still was for people of Mr&Mrs Walkerton’s generation).
i don’t remember about that but Jennifer did once tell Carla that she earned cookies from Linda for being her “reasonably white-passing substitute daughter” or something along those lines (i think she’s asian, probably biracial).
Jennifer is mixed race and yes she is half Asian. The former part she states outright in the strips where she talks to Walky about his parents after Sal got mad at him for dismissing her completely when she pointed out they were treated completely differently. And in flashbacks, much of Linda’s racism at Sal is subtle if you don’t know to look for it, but towards Marcie? It’s blatant.
oh, thanks for your details on Walky’s backstory yesterday btw, much appreciated ^^
and the more i think about it the more it does make sense to me that he was bullied as a teen, i mean there’s definitely family stuff in there as well what with his mom being a racist bongo and all.
I guess he’s like Becky in that they both went for the “let everyone believe you’re a goofy, shallow twerp” strategy. this storyline really hammers it in, like how he can’t believe Lucy could be into him, and it also coheres with him being the founder of garbage roof.
No problem. And yeah, these things + ADHD + always under pressure to try to avoid being treated like Sal by being perfect can kill your self-esteem. And his self-esteem clearly still isn’t great. That expression in panel 2 is actually pretty heartbreaking.
I kind of give Mr. Walkerton a free pass on the hair thing, mainly because there is a centuries long history of societal suppression and demonization of native black hairstyles that even black people can’t escape. Saying your black daughter’s straight hair looks pretty means something different when you’ve spent hours in a salon waiting for your mom to get a weave she’s paid hundreds of dollars for so she can keep her job or get one. It’s definitely a loaded topic there is no right answer for.
That is important to remember but it’s also important to remember the impact that passing those biases on causes, especially for black kids. We’ve seen already Sal’s feelings about her hair are complicated and her dad doesn’t help. I can understand not condemning him for it because as you said, it’s everywhere, but it is a racial bias and I’ve seen so many people who’ve been that mom in the salon who’ve asked people to be cognizant of it and try to keep from passing it on (and, fact of the matter, it being a long, ingrained thing, doesn’t mean it makes Charles not racist).
Yeah. And remember, Sal had straightened her hair at least once before Marcie’s injury, and it was clearly months if not a year between the attack and Sal’s attempted holdup. She was likely twelve at oldest when she started it.
What do you want to bet there was some parental ‘encouragement’ to start it in the first place?
Another theory, based on both my own life and what we know of the walkertons: neither Linda wasn’t interested in learning how to care for “nappy” hair and Charles was never taught cuz his hair was kept short, so any time Linda had to comb Sal’s hair as a child it was a big painful ordeal with crying and screaming. Eventually sal had enough and started straightening her hair/Linda encouraged her to start straightening her hair to be something more “manageable”.
(Basically how i started relaxing at 11 but without the malice and neglected. My poor ma, there just weren’t any widespread good resources on natural hair care 10 years ago)
There’s been some pretty strong hints (so strong that “hints” might be an understatement) that Linda, at least, might react this way (without outright saying it out loud), and Charles will most likely put up zero protest.
How about the Gaia Hypothesis? While it’s very much disputed (and, IMO, more a “sometimes it works this way” rather than “it always works this way” thing), it still sparked extended and fruitful dialogue about how, and the degree to which, the biosphere and environment interact, with huge implications for climate change and ecological science.
The Daisyworld simulation was an early illustration of the sort of mechanism by which Gaia could regulate climate, and the simulation helped move Gaia halfway out of the realm of sciency-spirtual-claptrap and allowed the dialogue bloom.
Black-and-white thinking is at the heart of the Daisyworld simulation.
So, yes, some good can sometimes come from black and white thinking.
But on that note, aside from the pseudoscientific panpsychist nonsensical notion of the environment having a “mind”, modeling the environment as a living thing, given their shared abilities of growth and reproduction, can have some rather useful insights.
First of all, I am Brazilian, so this strip resonates with me in a really “ouchie” way.
Secondly, Linda would absoluuuuuuuuutely agree with you that no good comes out of thinking in black and white terms. Literally perish the thought! She’s no racist! Why look at her husband!
Third, yeah you right. We definitely need to get beyond black and white thinking, but the only way to do that is to go through it and thoroughly understand how such thinking has built our world.
I think it’s a very good rule of thumb to avoid figurative black and white thinking whenever possible (more often then you might think). However, literal black and white thinking should always be avoided. I need not remind you what THAT leads to.
I’ve felt the opposite. I’ve felt a lotta pressure by my mom to date a black girl. Never like a “you can’t do this” sorta way but in a “oh really.” She outright told me if I married a white girl she’d probably never accept her. And like I get why it’s different but it…really bugs me. Like I’m single and I’ll probably die single but I don’t need that rhetoric kicking around in my brain in terms of falling in love. As if any woman I like is valued by her skin color. It’s not considered racism but it is fucked up.
That sucks to hear, I’ve got some family like that but I’m fortunate enough that it isn’t either of my parents. And I think that is racism, even if it doesn’t qualify by the “normal” standard.
Yeah I’m just so sick of getting “corrected” whenever I call this kindaof behavior racist. “Um actually racism is an institution and black people can’t be racist”. As if that excuses this sorta thing. It’s just kinda…pedantic.
It really is pedantic, you’re absolutely right, and I’m incredibly sorry people are giving you a hard time for it. It might not fit the technical definition of racism, but it is definitely prejudice. If pedants want to pedant, then that’s the card you can play right back to them. Any person in this world can hold prejudice, and it’s certainly not something that we should let go unexamined.
Racism isn’t an institution, it’s a personal condition. Hail fahr, black people can be racist against the wrong color of black. I’ve known of people of West African descent refer to a Subsaharan immigrant as a “blue monkey.” To his face.
If that were true, we wouldn’t see institutional responses that map to racism, like how much more likely it is for POC, especially Black, Latino, and Indigenous, people to be abused by the police or less likely to be hired for a job, less likely to obtain higher education, etc. That said, yeah, there’s an individual level too.
Racism isn’t an institution. That’s reifying an abstraction. Racism is an attitude, an agreement, a conspiracy, an idea that is intentionally magnified, spread, recorded on “humorous” records, planned in meetings, and taught to children. But institutions don’t do things. People do things. And people of all colors are susceptible.
I mean when people call racism “institutional” they aren’t anthropomorphizing institutions, they are aware that institutions aren’t sentient, it means that it’s baked into the very fabric of our society and isn’t just about the choices of individuals. It’s stuff like the disparities in our criminal justice system and real estate and hiring practices that advantage white people society-wide.
Institutions do things all the time. Governments, legal systems, etc. are institutions, but I’m sure you don’t object when people say they’ve done something.
It becomes less of a personal condition when you can count on the institutions around you to back you up. Black people threatening to call the cops on white people for trumped up reasons isn’t a common thing like the reverse, because black people know the cops won’t reflexively side with them.
**raises eyebrow**
It sounds like people are confusing the systemic problem that is racism with the definition of the term racism.
Ie, people of color being racist against white people isn’t part of the systemic problem of racism but it is technically racist by the definition of the word racist. Just like white people being racist against different white people is also racist but not (necessarily) related to the systemic problem of racism against PoC.
But then I’m a pedantic English teacher on the internet, so grain of salt.
Yeah, I think people just started calling that colorism when people are being racist within their own race. People just love making very specific definitions for stuff I guess.
labels are addictive! which is great in science, but for lgbtq+ allies it might sometimes be better to just, y’know, try to understand what people disclose about their identity without pressuring too much on an exact label because sometimes it’s just Complicated
(and by “allies” here i mean anyone getting to know a queer/questioning person who doesn’t have a good label or doesn’t like labels in the first place … okay i think i’m in an overanalytical headspace right now sorry)
There’s racism and there’s white supremacism. Oddly enough, the two aren’t necessarily the same thing. Folks remember, I trust, the color of most of the Jews killed in the holocaust?
Racism is a much more “big tent” in some ways than white supremacism. That said, a lot of people who don’t consider themselves to be white and are proud of that can actually be very white supremacist.
Jewish people in the Holocaust weren’t considered white. Hell, most white supremacists these days still don’t consider them white. They are definitely still victims of white supremacy.
My grandpa, in the US at the time, was not considered “white” in the 30s. On his documents were printed Race: Hebrew.
Even after he came beck from WW 2 he had trouble getting hired due to being a Jewish immigrant, even though Ashkenazi Jews were officially considered “white” by then.
I heard this a lot back in the… early 2000s? when all of this seemed a lot more academic. That personal bigotry couldn’t/shouldn’t be (called) racism, per se, without societal/institutional power behind it.
That’s essentially it. Whether you call it that or not is basically just semantics, but there’s a huge distinction between prejudice with societal power behind it and prejudice without such power.
This is often mistranslated as “black people can’t be racist”, while what it really means is that reverse racism isn’t a serious thing. Black people can be racist and often are, in the systemic sense, by internalizing and reinforcing societies prejudices. A lot of colorism would fall into this category.
“This is often mistranslated as “black people can’t be racist”, while what it really means is that reverse racism isn’t a serious thing. ”
It’s not AS serious. On this level in the scenario provided it has long standing effects on how I see potential mates. Not a grand loss in the…y’know…state of the world but could potentially end up effecting a HUGE part of my life. Assuming I ever get a girlfriend/wife who isn’t black.
To be honest this kind of argument really sucks. That pop-definition of racism wasn’t supposed to escape academia and become everyday.
Either racism is a structural issue, in which case it has nothing to do with the prejudices of individuals, and the statement “my mom is a racist” makes as much sense for you to say as it does for Chelsea Clinton to say, which is none. Or, it’s the prejudices of an individual, in which case every person who can be targeted by a prejudiced individual can be a target of racism, including Chelsea Clinton if your mom throws a shitfit because you’re dating her. The inconsistent conflation of the worst most inconsistent aspects of both definitions is a fucking disease in the discourse and I’m vicariously fucking annoyed that people hold you “accountable” to it, *especially* given the likelihood that the individual assuming to know more than you about racism is likely operating from a position of their own chauvanism.
Hmmm. Well, racism has a structural and a psychological side. Historical racism is DEFINITELY based on white supremacy, which predates racism by a country mile. But once racism becomes established, it’s used to explain pretty much every social inequality there is and it becomes very “big tent”. I’d say a black mom who wants her kid to date black is most likely engaged in sort of a defensive chauvinism generated by racism or, at most, the belief that the world is racist and that’s the way the smart money bets. But I don’t think they themselves necessarily must believe that the human species is dividable into hierarchically organized subspecies. There are vanishingly few true black supremacists out there, although one occasionally runs into them. Even so, I have a hard time seeing that point of view as anything but tragic and laughable (Marcus Garvey, looking at you here) because the racism game’s roots ARE INDEED white supremacy and it would take a huge global historical defeat of the “white race” for that to change. And, even if it were to change, I bet we’d still see “lighter is better” in the new world order.
Y’know what’s sad? The poster’s mom probably wants him to date black, but not TOO black.
“Either racism is a structural issue, in which case it has nothing to do with the prejudices of individuals, and the statement “my mom is a racist” makes as much sense for you to say as it does for Chelsea Clinton to say, which is none.”
I’m having trouble understanding this. Structural issues can and do manifest in individual attitudes. That’s what makes them structural – it goes all the way down from all levels of society to individuals. Structural sexism and heterocentrism work the same way. Individuals shape and are shaped by the structures in society, they’re not divorced.
If racism is a structural issue, then what you’re targeted by is a structure, not an attitude. An individual can have an attitude, and that attitude can be shaped by the structure, but the structure is not held up by attitudes, and while an attitude can target an individual, the attitude, while being informed by racism-as-structure, the attitude is not the mechanism of the structure.
This sounds like a petty and hard-to-understand semantic point, but when investigating questions like “is it racist for a black woman to not want her children to date white people” what needs to be investigated is the role racial endogamy plays in the structure and whether the attitude of the black woman in question is the mechanism of that structure. Since it’s not, by overemphasising her culpability in the structure, you’re scapegoating this woman for what is really a personal attitude problem (if it is a problem; for OP’s sake, it is).
The argument that OP’s mom “can’t be racist” stems from this, and is usually inconsistently applied, because if a white parent doesn’t want their kids dating a black person, all of the things I just said apply.
This is stuff that applies only to a specialised discussion. In the “playground definition”, you can absolutely call an individual a racist, by which you mean that their attitudes are informed by a racist structure. This assessment is subjective and fallible, and if a black person wants to call their mom a racist you’re a complete asshole to correct them, because that is not the definition of specialised discussion of structural issues but the language of telling your buddy stuff that sucks over lunch.
Nah. We have a saying here in Brazil and it is TOTALLY true: there’s an old shoe for every diseased foot. 😉 You’ll be incredibly surprised how hard it is to die alone and, let me tell you from hard experience, there are much worse fates than dying alone. Being driven to suicide by your partner, for one.
I would still consider that racism. It might not be systematic racism but that is still very much having prejudice based solely on the person’s race rather than disliking them for valid reasons.
That sucks. I could understand advising you to avoid someone like Linda in the comic but telling you that you’ll have to choose between her and your potential wife if she isn’t black is f—ed up.
Also, why do parents always think they’re going to win that fight?
Oh Walky, your attempts at not revealing your secret identity are worse than your attempts at being intimidating. And yet we thank you for your… service? Bumbling? Attempts?
Either way we need to address panel 3: Walky I’m sure your mother will be fine with Lucy because she is nice and intelligent. Lucy isn’t enough of a “troublemaker” to set off your mom, ptobably. As for your dad he’ll just agree with your mom since he’s a coward.
Yeah, remember that she judged Marcie as a ‘troublemaker’ for climbing on playground equipment higher than was deemed acceptable at age, like, five. And has never reassessed that judgment, including blaming Marcie for attacks she was the victim of by Leland the budding supervillain to reinforce that she was ‘trouble’ and Sal shouldn’t have anything to do with her.
(The playground also led to some charming assessment of Marcie’s family based off her either not having an immediately-apparent parent or a parent who was present but didn’t intervene when Marcie was climbing higher than is safe. Which reflected poorly, of course, on Marcie. We have no idea WHAT the circumstances are with Marcie’s parents because they have never appeared onscreen, but there are actually scenarios where this isn’t a sign they’re irredeemably neglectful.)
The only person who said anything like that who’d have reason to know is Sal, who said at the rally that Robin would ‘deport yer parents if it’d get her enough votes.’ (The other two times it’s been brought up were the principal of Sal’s school – says way more about him than anything else since he has NO WAY to know, not knowing Marcie at all – and Charles, whose wife at least is noticeably hostile enough that I wouldn’t trust him in case it gets back to her.) The thing is, the way the Republican party was going even in 2016 (strip published in late August, probably written before Trump had the nomination) rhetoric was already bad enough that that could also refer to immigrants with fully active visas. It’s been brought up enough to be a possibility, but since it’s been brought up mostly in the context of Sal’s plot about her parents’ racism, it’s just as likely to be Charles making an assumption as anything else. Given Linda tried to get Amber expelled for her father’s actions, do you really trust her not to do something really heinous to get Marcie out of Sal’s life if she did know anything for sure?
Yeah, I’m guessing if it IS true, Sal’s parents don’t know 100% for sure. Hell, frankly, people who were born in the US were being mistaken for undocumented immigrants in deportations, particularly in the south. I remember cases like that making the news before Trump.
Seriously. Giving all credit to Sal’s interpretation of things,* Linda has at worst unconscious bias—like “I’m wary until I’m shown that she’s ‘a good one.’” Don’t get me wrong, it’s still racist, but not exactly “mom will be pissed”/“Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” style.
*While at this point we can probably assume, based on how DOA has been framed overall, that Sal is correct, it never fully fit for me. I’ve always thought that an equally likely explanation for Linda’s behavior was internalized misogyny. I know too many older (white) women who dote on their sons but are borderline estranged from their daughters. The Walkerton family dynamic is common even among all-white families, and I always saw more of that there than the race thing. But hey, Linda could be awful in several ways so who knows.
Yeah she seems to be uptight in kinda…every way and those ways just sorta end up going against a lotta groups. “oh she’s acting wild and her parents are nowhere around, that’s bad.”, “oh her hair is messy and kinky and his is straight and neat, that’s good”, “oh that girl’s father put my children’s life in danger, she should be expelled”, etc.
She’s just sorta got a stick up her ass and that causes her to hyper focus on any trait that’s not the idealized american family dynamic.
She probably met him in a circumstance where she got to know him as a real person, but still thinks other POC are “those people” and obviously up to no good. I mean, just look at Sal! Her daughter’s a hooligan and has *gasp* curly hair!
I feel like everyone is under the impression that you have to be actively racist to have racist tendencies and biases. Most people will simply have small traits, something like “oh I don’t like this hairstyle” or “why doesn’t this guy sound black”
I think the problem is everyone assumes everyone racist is just a big racist asshole and it makes them not look at their own behavior. If you asked Linda “are you racist” she’d say “WHAT!? No? I married a black man? I love movies and music with black people. I have plenty of black friends.” and like…she’s not wrong cuz she’s not sitting around hoping for black people’s downfall. Her racism is just subconscious and she’s probably not fully aware of it.
Bingo! A huge chunk of people fall into this category. Most everyday average people have internalized some sort of bullshit. The difference really comes down to what you do when you’re confronted over your biases and prejudices. Linda definitely seems like the type to get defensive about it, most people try to justify it by saying they’re not as bad as others. “I’m not a racist because I’m vote democrat, or because 4chan neo nazis exist and I’m not that.”
I’m a black dude and I still check myself from time to time even against my own culture. (Personally I blame watching too much Boondocks).
But yeah, I think nobody really wants to confront the idea of being racist. If anything I find it kinda suspect when someone is super quick to shut someone down as a racist or talk about how not racist they are. It makes me worry that they themselves aren’t self aware. Like they’re like “Linda’s so racist and evil! unlike me. I’m not racist and she is, and she must always say and do racist things, as racists are ought to do. I don’t need to evaluate the ways she’s racist or how I myself act because the story’s already told us she is and I’ll expect her to say or do something awful and unreasonable because all racists are cartoons versions of racist.”
I once watched the Boondocks Saints movie and I had assumed it was related to the show even though it wasn’t animated, so I was like “I don’t need to pay attention until the Black kids show up.”
It was about halfway through the movie that I figured out it was entirely unrelated.
Checking yourself is of the essence. I grew up in West Virginia, which isn’t he most racist state in the union, but sure isn’t the least. Sometimes I still have to tell myself, “Don’t think black man. Think human being.” Way less than I used to, though.
Most racism is insidious precisely because it is subtle. It’s easy to condemn the visible part of the iceberg– the Nazis, the Klan, but it’s harder to fight the stuff that you never really realized was in your own brain until you thought about it. I’ve noticed some truly awful shit in my own head at times just by questioning why I was coming to conclusions that “seemed racist out of context”. Turns out the context was racist, and the context was my brain.
watching a buncha old disney movies as a little kid way too young to recognize what aspects of them were super racist probably didn’t help though
The first two panels had me awwwwing and then I reached the third panel and had to grab my wrist to restrain myself from punching through my screen. DAMN YOU WALKERTON PARENTS.
being strong and brave are great qualities, and i commend you on possessing them, but women can display them as well and men can be physically weak and lack courage and still be called men.
seriously. i think you don’t realize the damage such stereotypes cause?
What, you wouldn’t fight off all the big buff guys with your bare hands and machine gun? Can you even call yourself a man of you’re not always five seconds from totally going all Rambo on some poor motherfucker?
If he’d fallen down and let Blaine trip over him that would have been something useful, if he’d cried out for help, grabbed the arm with the hammer and held on
In hindsight (after rereading the storyline) grabbing the arm might be more than could reasonably be expected from Walky but I still stand with the falling down or shouting out options
This is why I hate when stories have drama. Because we always end up with this monday morning quarterback mentality. Like when I watch a scary movie and someone’s like “why did they do that irrational thing? I would’ve done ‘x’. And it’s like…The person in this situation is SCARED out of their fucking mind.
My mom was attacked by a dog on a walk. She screamed and ran to grab a stick to fend it off. That didn’t work and she ran back and forth until a neighbor picked her up in his car. It was only once she got home later that afternoon she remembered she carries around PEPPER SPRAY for the express purpose of keeping people from attacking her. She TOTALLY forgot about it because she was scared.
But y’know…if she was a character in a movie and not my beloved mother scared out of her mind, I might just say “YOU DUMB IDIOT, YOU’VE GOT FUCKING PEPPERSPRAY”
She wasn’t being held by the neck with a weapon aimed at her by the dog though, was she? Blaine could’ve and probably would’ve choked him out if he tried to. That’s kinda…why you put your arm around people’s neck when you take them hostage. It’s a great scream deterrent.
this thread really reminds me of a video essay by Big Joel and Mothcub about a similar take on how some men should’ve displayed bravery in a gunpoint situation.
it’s strikingly relevant up to around halfway through. the second half is a bit more abstract, about how the concept of “empathy” is overextended and misused, i think it’s still interesting but whatever
The only reason I wouldn’t be is the highly likely possibility of me going into one of my unfortunate berserker rage modes caused by the PTSD my parents gifted me with and me getting a few red panels. His actions during the kidnapping were those of a relatively mental healthy individual.
I mean, despite the joking he was clearly experiencing trauma and doesn’t have the fight response many of the others do. And he wouldn’t exactly have had the time to try and retool his brain’s responses, because unlike everyone else who’d been kidnapped he’d never been in a potentially violent situation before. (Sarah’s a cusp case since she was the one who brought a bat to rescue Joyce, but Becky was kidnapped once already, Ethan had likewise been a hostage, Dina had tried to derail Ross, Dorothy had a knife drawn on her by Ryan, and Amber and Joyce have too many examples to name even just listing ones that were Amber and not AG at the controls. Everyone other than Walky had some reason to know how their brains would react in a situation like that going in. Walky didn’t. That’s not a moral failing of Walky’s, that’s just him lucking out by this cast’s standards and not having been in a situation with deadly weapons before.)
He’s a flight/fawn type. That’s not inherently less noble or less effective than fight or freeze type trauma responses. Walky has plenty of issues, but his reaction during the kidnapping shouldn’t be held against him any more than Amber freezing in the convenience store should be held against her. (Stabbing a restrained and unarmed person, that we can talk about. But the initial freeze? No.)
To some keeping your head and not panicking the whole way through is brave enough, I’d rather be stuck in that situation with someone chiming in with something witty than weeping or freaking the whole time. Not saying that neither/or is a proper response though just saying I wouldn’t prefer the ladder.
I don’t think he wants to either, so much as he doesn’t dislike the idea.
Also, Dorothy is smart, so if she thinks it’s a good idea, it must be worth trying.
Yes…? No one said it was…so I’m not sure why you mention it.
There are plenty of people who don’t want to go on a single date with someone they’re not already interested in.
I dare say it’s the majority of people.
I was agreeing with you. He may not be head over hills in love with Lucy, but he doesn’t hate the idea, Dorothy suggested it and it’s just a date. I kind of see that as a package.
Something about finding out someone likes you makes you more willing to see them in a romantic light. Like I don’t think my first GF was crushing on me or anything but she still said yes when I asked her out.
On the rare occasion when I actually realize a woman is (or was years ago) into me, I definitely tend to view her in a more romantic light. When I don’t know if a woman is into me, which is most of the time, I tend to try to act like I’m not into her either when I’m around her to avoid making things more awkward, even if I do think she’s cute.
I was trying to work out if it was mostly every guy reminding her of Ryan therefore all the guys looked like Ryan or if it was because every guy looked blurry therefore every guy might have been Ryan
It’s doubtful every guy looked like Ryan because blurry. She recognized her friends and acquaintances with no issue, and they also would have been blurry.
Then again, maybe just the average looking blurry guys reminded her of him? The people she knew were all recognizably different from Ryan with just a glance. Walky’s hair and skin color. Joe’s size. Mike’s being an asshole. Danny’s hat.
Danny didn’t have a hat when the PTSD visions started. Joe and Ethan both also have very different hair colors as well in their favor.
I think blurriness could well be a factor (I think Dorothy even brought that up to Becky in Operation Get Joyce To The Optometrist,) but I suspect it was also the simple fact that ANYONE can be in a crowd like that and if you can’t see everyone in it, you don’t know until it’s too late. Volume of people making them blend together or being all around you so you can’t track them all rather than inability to read any specific face, basically. (Remember how Ryan actively stalked Dorothy for hours before the night of the stabbing, and she hadn’t had a clue?)
I was actually joking about Danny’s hat, trying to say there’s nothing distinct about him otherwise.
Also, I’m not sure she had even met Danny at that time.
As for the blurriness, I want to say there was a strip where Joyce was outside and she saw individual Ryan’s walking around, no crowds. So that implies trauma that makes people look like your attacker or a physical ailment preventing you from telling people apart. Or both.
On a personal note, I’m both nearsighted and have bad astigmatism, but I never had such an issue. I was often unsure of someone without my glasses, but I didn’t mistake them specifically as someone else. Therefore, my anecdotal evidence, which, as we all know, is the superior kind of evidence, leads me to believe it’s a little of column A, a little of column B.
Re alt text: I’ve long held that if anyone wanders into the Batcave, Bruce should just pass it off as an elaborate shrine he built to Batman out of gratitude for what he’s done for Gotham City. I mean, it’s totally believable. Rich people do weird stuff with their money! Also, his parents were killed by a mugger, so he has strong feelings about street crime!
I mean, not all racism is the clear cut, right in your face shit. Yotomoe had a good comment about this up above and phrased it better than I’m gonna be able to, so I’m just gonna quote him here
“I think the problem is everyone assumes everyone racist is just a big racist asshole and it makes them not look at their own behavior. If you asked Linda “are you racist” she’d say “WHAT!? No? I married a black man? I love movies and music with black people. I have plenty of black friends.” and like…she’s not wrong cuz she’s not sitting around hoping for black people’s downfall. Her racism is just subconscious and she’s probably not fully aware of it.”
I don’t know if “misogynoir” is the right term, but her racism seems like it’s strongly tied to gender. That would at least make it consistent why she likes her husband and son but not her daughter or son’s potential girlfriend. (I’m sure we’ll find out much, much more than we want in a future story arc.)
I think Sal said quite early in the strip that Linda likes Walky better because Walky looks less black, which was probably the first point at which I thought “yipes”.
There was also our first clue, before we meet Linda or Sal says anything about it, which was Walky describing Sal as black and himself as generically beige.
Passed off as a joke at the time without enough context, but in retrospect a clear view of the racial dynamics in that household.
Exposure to actual examples of the Other can assist in reducing the sort of racism that comes from simple ignorance, not personally knowing any… but that’s not the only cause, and it doesn’t always work.
There have actually been a sociological study on that. The specific example was that knowing lots of Indigenous people made people less likely to be blatantly, outwardly racist about Indigenous people. It did NOT, however, make them more likely to be in favour of policies or action to ameliorate racism against Indigenous people or any more well versed in Indigenous issues. I wouldn’t be surprised if that crossed into other marginalized groups as well.
Also, sometimes these folks’ attraction to POC is itself racist because it’s based on stereotypes. (Not saying that’s what happened with Linda, just in general.)
What always gets me is when they’re all shocked when strangers treat their spouse/children the same way they themselves treat other POC.
Damnit I forgot about Walky’s parents regarding his romantic relationships! Like maybe they won’t say a word, maybe they are only mildly annoying in investigating if she is “a good girl” (*shudders*) but the anxious feeling of “a dinner together could get really cringy and awful” it’s still there.
I can see it now… Linda expressing surprise that Walky would feel that way in a way that totally shits on Sal. “Why would we be disappointed? It’s not like your girlfriend holds up stores or something.”
i might be in the minority here but i actually dont think walky and lucy would be a good couple. lucy has placed walky on a ridiculously high pedestal .
they also both lack communication skills. it can be hard to read people ((it’s something i struggle with)) so i can let walky slide even thought it was very obvious. but lucy has just been saying “IM IN LOVE WITH YOU” in every single way imaginable, except by actually TELLING walky her thoughts and feelings
my guess is that they try to date and either 1 walky gets overwhelmed by lucys affection and feels uncomfortable or 2 walky doesnt match up to lucys expectations and she is disappointed
I mean it’s not like I think they’re soul mates or anything. I just think they should give it a shot. This is DOA, how many of the couples in here don’t suffer from…all those problems you just said?
I honestly don’t care if it means they get together, I think if they have even a semi-fun date together, they can still decide they’re not great for each other after all and move on and still get along fine. Not every date has to succeed or lead into a long-term thing.
what’s there to unpack about “brand”?
i just took it to mean that everyone thinks Walky’s a bit of a child, that’s just sort of his thing, but it’s not all he is.
… I was actually doubting that Walky would have been interested. I should have known better. Jennifer said that without a crotch to the face Lucy had no chance, so of course the ship was going to happen.
The four faces of Walky. He’s not timid but he is traumatized and his family of origin didn’t do him any favors. I’m surprised to see people my age (2-3x that of most commenters) who are so clearly the product of their families. Change is hard.
Walky: “y’know, she hasnt even passed me a not asking Do You Like Me, how can I re-eally be sure?!”
Dorothy: “Walky how would she pass notes to you, you two do not even have class together.”
This whole storyline, I’ve been dreading the moment that Walky’s mom finds out he let himself get dumped by a future white female president for whatever the hell she’s gonna call Lucy to her face. I’m honestly very glad that Walky has gained enough awareness to be prepared for that to happen, even if he definitely isn’t prepared to actually do anything about it.
Charles is half-black, half-white. Maybe he assimilated into white society, which made him appealing to Linda, since he’s the “acceptable black guy”. Sal accused him and Linda of favoring Walky because he passed for white and she did not. Sal acted out – for good reason, for Marcie – and her convenience store theft added fuel to being stereotyped by her folks, particularly Linda.
If she finds out about Lucy she will immediately think the worst of her because of Sal and other external factors too. I reiterate that Sal is not to blame, it’s on Linda and Charles’ prejudice and bad decisions.
Racist people can in fact marry black people and have black friends and still just HAPPEN to take issue with their children’s black partners. They can JUST HAPPEN to always have a bad feeling about them just as apparently Sal’s friend Marcie just HAPPENED to apparently ‘live with’ and spend time with ‘hoodlums’ so she just HAPPENED to be someone Linda disliked. And Charles is a pushover who goes with whatever she says so ‘parents’ might as well just stand for ‘Linda and her husband who will just stand there and let her be awful’.
Linda is not explicitly racist as in ‘actually would advocate that racism is good actually’ but implicitly in things she says and does. He’s not saying she would say out loud ‘the FUCK are you doing dating a BLACK girl’ but she might just HAPPEN to ‘mysteriously’ dislike Lucy or have a bad feeling about her.
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Walky’s reverse-Batman slogan
*points in some random, upwardish direction* It’s the Night symbol!
Now I’m trying to figure out what the Night symbol would look like. NightGuy’s costume doesn’t really have an insignia…
Maybe a big ole Dexter head to match the pajama pants?
Pointing up as a symbol only works at night.
By day you have to point down towards where the night currently is.
It’s just the Moon.
*points at anywhere in the night sky* AHA! NIGHT! IT’S THE NIGHT SIGNAL
The Beige (K)Night.
Imagine discovering DoA right now and reading this as your first comic. What Dorothy is saying in the last panel sounds like some real kinky stuff without context
Walky: You’re saying a SMART girl would date me?! Since when?
Dorothy:…
After having read your comment and reading what he actually said, I’m now taking it as he believes Dorothy broke up with him because he ISN’T good enough for her and she eventually realized this fact as there’s nothing wrong with her. Even though that’s not what she told him.
That also correlates with the SS Garbage Skowl, since it was established with him not being a good person (garbage) and something being wrong with Amber (also garbage).
As an aside, does anyone remember there being a ship name for Dorothy x Walky? Cuz I don’t. If there wasn’t, can we make one posthumously? Worthy, maybe?
The one I’ve heard is “Dorky”.
That works for the opposite reason I like Worthy. And is probably more accurate.
Dorky is their college romance. Worthy is their torrid post-election fuck marathon in 20 years when they’ve both had many losses and set-backs. Walky is in DC (for a non-election reason) He calls her up to congratulate her on her win. She’s single, having decided to give up on personal relations to persue the presidency.[1] They grab dinner to catch up and then Dorothy remembers his line about getting to brag about bangin’ the pres when she was a hit college chick. Dorothy: “Do you want to go 2 / 2 and also bang the president elect?”
[1] Think Elizabeth 1. Married to the throne/country so she can’t have a husband. Hopefully this isn’t what it actually takes to have a female president. Things are certainly looking positive on that front. As much as I wish Biden a long and healthy life, I kind of e
wonder if it’s best for America to be dragged into the 21st century by him dying 3 years into his second term so Ms Harris can get sworn in and then win having had a 7 + 1 year chance to show off her competency to Americans. Then again, reason doesn’t seem to be a deciding factor in a lot of voters decisiin making.
+1
Dorky
Good for Walky. Also fuck his parents for being racist pricks!
I’m almost curious what reason for being pricks his parents can come up with that won’t be obviously hypocritical.
…..
Oh, who am I kidding, parents don’t care about that.
There probably won’t be a reason but I can definitely imagine Linda saying something like. “Too bad about Dorothy, she was such a pretty girl” within earshot of Lucy if they ever met.
That absolutely sounds like something Linda would do, although I hope she never does.
“it’s a shame about Dorothy, she was such a smart and hardworking girl… “
oh jeez I cringed at the mere thought of this scenario
“Within earshot of Lucy” is by far the weirdest way I’ve seen of spelling “to Lucy’s face”.
They’re not going to say that’s why.
A lot of nitpicking tiny things into no-win situations, a fair bit of “I just don’t like her”, with a sizable dose of hypothetical better matches that just happen to be white. Sprinkle with something about “trying too hard” to “act nice”.
I… just realised my mother-in-law has been doing all that to me my whole relationship with my husband. I mean replace racist with homophobic so there is some differences but like…. huh… hadn’t thought of that.
I’m sorry that you have to go through this. Fuck racist/homophobic pricks!
I assumed he was joking.
No.
i had a little chuckle and then i remembered about Linda
“Oh, who am I kidding, parents don’t care about that.”
Close. Bigots don’t care about that.
I’m so confused about what goes through Chucks mind in terms of racism/self loathing. At the same time (for non racist reason) I totally understand just general self-loathing and am very afraid of becoming the aformentioned kind of parent through flawed thinking. It’s a terrible thing for a parent to teach their child to hate themselves.
*themself.
If you’re talking about Walky’s dad I don’t think he has any self loathing issues. His racism comes more from being complicit to Linda than anything else. I doubt he thinks black people are ugly or hates his own culture. He’s just a dude who married a white girl and saw it as a win and won’t do anything to maybe check her biases even when it comes to his own children. Like if Walky does bring Lucy home he might like her fine, but if Linda starts complaining he’ll just agree with her to avoid the conflict while maybe pulling Walky to the side and asking “Are you sure about this girl?”
There is, unfortunately, a segment of men that are of the opinion that dark-skinned black women are ugly. Walky’s dad might not be that blatant and/or extreme but practically the first thing he said to Sal that parent’s weekend was that he preferred her hair straight. I think there’s some level of colorism there that’s just him and not just him giving Linda a pass.
There’s been a definite tendency among the commentariat here to give Charles a pass as just “weak and going along with Linda” that I don’t think is really supported by the text. Linda’s more active, but Charles really hasn’t shown himself any better.
Notably, Sal does not seem to differentiate.
Hell, when Blaine was arrested, Sal told Amber she envied her ability to reject her dad’s claim over her. Specifically, her dad.
I don’t think Charles deserves a pass. He definitely has his own internalized bullshit, but I’m interested in where you’re getting his characterization from? Like are there bonus strips he’s featured in? Cause I don’t see much. The reason his comment on Sal’s hair is so memorable is because it’s the only thing of real significance he’s ever said. Linda does all the talking, Charles googles shit and maybe has a dadish comment once or twice.
So I don’t really get his vilification except that in general we don’t like the Walkertons. I get that in general they’re kind of unlikeable and likely racist but I’m not good at reading this subtext. To me Charles doesn’t have nearly as much negative baggage as say Hank does.
Keep in mind that this same commentariat has long written off Mike’s nigh-decade-long chain of abuse as “making people better”, so . . .
You’ve forgotten who his parents are already, haven’t you? >_>
Hint: Sal and Walky are half-black themselves.
…I mean honestly Linda might be
There’s really know might. Linda definitely is some kind of racist, the jury’s still out on Charles mostly because he’s not really even a character so it’s hard to judge him.
I meant to say “no” not “know” but uh…whatever. Fuck Walky’s parents. His mom specifically. Too bad Mike’s dead. We could use him for that.
Well if Booster ever recovers from his head trauma induced amnesia/personality shift he’ll get his shot. Though Mike’s Mike-ness bleeds through with every horrible thing Booster’s cursed existence causes.
What? My head canon on Mike’s “death” is a personality death. It gives Amber’s comments in Replacement an entirely different context that works shockingly well.
Mike’s Mike-ness bleeds through with every horrible thing Booster’s cursed existence causes
…what
see, booster is secretly mike…in, uh, brownface, i guess…because it’s an alternative to mike being dead and replaced with a character maikeruu doesn’t like
and it’s okay to misgender “mike’s new identity” because this new identity is less real, somehow. head trauma made him trans, i guess, idk
Yeah that. It was fun for a bit when all we had was Booster’s silhouette we thought was Mike with a new haircut and then Booster walks in as Walky’s new roommate, but now it feels weird to keep pushing it especially after the importance of being referred to by their correct gender identity that Booster insisted on.
Besides, we have since learned from Willis that Jennifer is Mike’s new identity, having replaced Billie.
is it okay(er?) to misgender cis people? surely if they’re a canonically cis character it’s less of an affront to the character? but then i guess the nature of joking that someone took on another gender personality on a whim might be insensitive to the plight of trans people in the first place?? but you could also argue mike and/or jennifer were genderqueer — maybe agender …
this line of thought is doing my head in…
My personal cannon is that Mike’s death was faked as a mob witness (which also explains Billie’s change in behaviour)
I can go with Mike being a mob witness, but how does that explain Billie–>Jennifer?
Yeah, I don’t see the connection there at all. Billie-Jen is not a lover,
She’s just a girl who claims that she’s not the (other) one.
But she’s not the other one, she’s really Mike.
Wait? Billie is … Mike!?
That may very well be the case. Or they may just be mortally afraid of ending up with “another Sal”. One of those.
When you’re married to an open racist the jury has already delivered a guilty verdict.
I’m thinking Mr. Walkerton might be from the kind of family that hoped their children would marry someone “more white” rather than someone “more black”. Which Mr. Walkerton did, and perhaps hoped the children would be “more white” as well (I think it was actually stated at some point – by Sal? – that the parents preferred Walky to Sal because he looked “less black” or something like that). And that now he, and perhaps Mrs Walkerton as well, would be hoping for their children to marry someone “more white”, give them white grandchildren etc. as well. Now, I admit I have no idea how common this way of thinking would be in the US, or if it exists there – I know in some countries it is definitely a thing (or at least still was for people of Mr&Mrs Walkerton’s generation).
i don’t remember about that but Jennifer did once tell Carla that she earned cookies from Linda for being her “reasonably white-passing substitute daughter” or something along those lines (i think she’s asian, probably biracial).
Jennifer is mixed race and yes she is half Asian. The former part she states outright in the strips where she talks to Walky about his parents after Sal got mad at him for dismissing her completely when she pointed out they were treated completely differently. And in flashbacks, much of Linda’s racism at Sal is subtle if you don’t know to look for it, but towards Marcie? It’s blatant.
oh, thanks for your details on Walky’s backstory yesterday btw, much appreciated ^^
and the more i think about it the more it does make sense to me that he was bullied as a teen, i mean there’s definitely family stuff in there as well what with his mom being a racist bongo and all.
I guess he’s like Becky in that they both went for the “let everyone believe you’re a goofy, shallow twerp” strategy. this storyline really hammers it in, like how he can’t believe Lucy could be into him, and it also coheres with him being the founder of garbage roof.
No problem. And yeah, these things + ADHD + always under pressure to try to avoid being treated like Sal by being perfect can kill your self-esteem. And his self-esteem clearly still isn’t great. That expression in panel 2 is actually pretty heartbreaking.
Given his dad about Sal’s hair, I wouldn’t be too quick to rule him out, either.
Thank you for saying that before I did.
I kind of give Mr. Walkerton a free pass on the hair thing, mainly because there is a centuries long history of societal suppression and demonization of native black hairstyles that even black people can’t escape. Saying your black daughter’s straight hair looks pretty means something different when you’ve spent hours in a salon waiting for your mom to get a weave she’s paid hundreds of dollars for so she can keep her job or get one. It’s definitely a loaded topic there is no right answer for.
That is important to remember but it’s also important to remember the impact that passing those biases on causes, especially for black kids. We’ve seen already Sal’s feelings about her hair are complicated and her dad doesn’t help. I can understand not condemning him for it because as you said, it’s everywhere, but it is a racial bias and I’ve seen so many people who’ve been that mom in the salon who’ve asked people to be cognizant of it and try to keep from passing it on (and, fact of the matter, it being a long, ingrained thing, doesn’t mean it makes Charles not racist).
Yeah. And remember, Sal had straightened her hair at least once before Marcie’s injury, and it was clearly months if not a year between the attack and Sal’s attempted holdup. She was likely twelve at oldest when she started it.
What do you want to bet there was some parental ‘encouragement’ to start it in the first place?
Another theory, based on both my own life and what we know of the walkertons: neither Linda wasn’t interested in learning how to care for “nappy” hair and Charles was never taught cuz his hair was kept short, so any time Linda had to comb Sal’s hair as a child it was a big painful ordeal with crying and screaming. Eventually sal had enough and started straightening her hair/Linda encouraged her to start straightening her hair to be something more “manageable”.
(Basically how i started relaxing at 11 but without the malice and neglected. My poor ma, there just weren’t any widespread good resources on natural hair care 10 years ago)
Please tell me he was at least partially sarcastic about that last comment….
I mean the second to last one.
Walky’s assessment agrees with mine.
There’s been some pretty strong hints (so strong that “hints” might be an understatement) that Linda, at least, might react this way (without outright saying it out loud), and Charles will most likely put up zero protest.
Oh no…. be it literally or figuratively, no good can ever come from black and white thinking.
How about the Gaia Hypothesis? While it’s very much disputed (and, IMO, more a “sometimes it works this way” rather than “it always works this way” thing), it still sparked extended and fruitful dialogue about how, and the degree to which, the biosphere and environment interact, with huge implications for climate change and ecological science.
The Daisyworld simulation was an early illustration of the sort of mechanism by which Gaia could regulate climate, and the simulation helped move Gaia halfway out of the realm of sciency-spirtual-claptrap and allowed the dialogue bloom.
Black-and-white thinking is at the heart of the Daisyworld simulation.
So, yes, some good can sometimes come from black and white thinking.
No good can ever come from black and white thinking, with the sole exception of oddly specific circumstances in which it does.
technically correct, best kind of correct.
Not really the point I was trying to make.
But on that note, aside from the pseudoscientific panpsychist nonsensical notion of the environment having a “mind”, modeling the environment as a living thing, given their shared abilities of growth and reproduction, can have some rather useful insights.
The problem is…. well…. look….
First of all, I am Brazilian, so this strip resonates with me in a really “ouchie” way.
Secondly, Linda would absoluuuuuuuuutely agree with you that no good comes out of thinking in black and white terms. Literally perish the thought! She’s no racist! Why look at her husband!
Third, yeah you right. We definitely need to get beyond black and white thinking, but the only way to do that is to go through it and thoroughly understand how such thinking has built our world.
In regard to the strip, “black and white thinking ” was a pun.
… isn’t “No good can EVER come from X” a kind of black-and-white thinking? o.o
ONLY A SITH DEALS IN- *gets dragged bodily away for mentioning prequels*
“Only a Sith deals in absolutes,” says Obi-Wan, completely oblivious to what he just said.
He’s being a little hyperbolic. Only a little though
I think it’s a very good rule of thumb to avoid figurative black and white thinking whenever possible (more often then you might think). However, literal black and white thinking should always be avoided. I need not remind you what THAT leads to.
Would they prefer for him to date a generically beige girl?
Great callback.
Appropriate too.
If they are anything like the Brazilian parents I know, they are hoping he will continue to “improve the family’s hair”.
Okay, I am loving panel 3, hehe.
Yeah, Walky’s cheerfulness at how pissed his parents are going to be is heartwarming.
I believe Walky. Clearly NightGuy is Joe.
Just ask
BillieJenniferBillingsworthMike.He heard somewhere that his name is nightguy
Ah. Right. Horrible parents continue to be a thing.
I’ve felt the opposite. I’ve felt a lotta pressure by my mom to date a black girl. Never like a “you can’t do this” sorta way but in a “oh really.” She outright told me if I married a white girl she’d probably never accept her. And like I get why it’s different but it…really bugs me. Like I’m single and I’ll probably die single but I don’t need that rhetoric kicking around in my brain in terms of falling in love. As if any woman I like is valued by her skin color. It’s not considered racism but it is fucked up.
That sucks to hear, I’ve got some family like that but I’m fortunate enough that it isn’t either of my parents. And I think that is racism, even if it doesn’t qualify by the “normal” standard.
Yeah I’m just so sick of getting “corrected” whenever I call this kindaof behavior racist. “Um actually racism is an institution and black people can’t be racist”. As if that excuses this sorta thing. It’s just kinda…pedantic.
It really is pedantic, you’re absolutely right, and I’m incredibly sorry people are giving you a hard time for it. It might not fit the technical definition of racism, but it is definitely prejudice. If pedants want to pedant, then that’s the card you can play right back to them. Any person in this world can hold prejudice, and it’s certainly not something that we should let go unexamined.
Racism isn’t an institution, it’s a personal condition. Hail fahr, black people can be racist against the wrong color of black. I’ve known of people of West African descent refer to a Subsaharan immigrant as a “blue monkey.” To his face.
If that were true, we wouldn’t see institutional responses that map to racism, like how much more likely it is for POC, especially Black, Latino, and Indigenous, people to be abused by the police or less likely to be hired for a job, less likely to obtain higher education, etc. That said, yeah, there’s an individual level too.
I think he means racism isn’t SOLELY an institution. Racism is institutional and Individual. It’s a wide umbrella.
Very true.
Racism isn’t an institution. That’s reifying an abstraction. Racism is an attitude, an agreement, a conspiracy, an idea that is intentionally magnified, spread, recorded on “humorous” records, planned in meetings, and taught to children. But institutions don’t do things. People do things. And people of all colors are susceptible.
I mean when people call racism “institutional” they aren’t anthropomorphizing institutions, they are aware that institutions aren’t sentient, it means that it’s baked into the very fabric of our society and isn’t just about the choices of individuals. It’s stuff like the disparities in our criminal justice system and real estate and hiring practices that advantage white people society-wide.
Institutions do things all the time. Governments, legal systems, etc. are institutions, but I’m sure you don’t object when people say they’ve done something.
It becomes less of a personal condition when you can count on the institutions around you to back you up. Black people threatening to call the cops on white people for trumped up reasons isn’t a common thing like the reverse, because black people know the cops won’t reflexively side with them.
**raises eyebrow**
It sounds like people are confusing the systemic problem that is racism with the definition of the term racism.
Ie, people of color being racist against white people isn’t part of the systemic problem of racism but it is technically racist by the definition of the word racist. Just like white people being racist against different white people is also racist but not (necessarily) related to the systemic problem of racism against PoC.
But then I’m a pedantic English teacher on the internet, so grain of salt.
Yeah, I think people just started calling that colorism when people are being racist within their own race. People just love making very specific definitions for stuff I guess.
labels are addictive! which is great in science, but for lgbtq+ allies it might sometimes be better to just, y’know, try to understand what people disclose about their identity without pressuring too much on an exact label because sometimes it’s just Complicated
(and by “allies” here i mean anyone getting to know a queer/questioning person who doesn’t have a good label or doesn’t like labels in the first place … okay i think i’m in an overanalytical headspace right now sorry)
Basically this.
There’s racism and there’s white supremacism. Oddly enough, the two aren’t necessarily the same thing. Folks remember, I trust, the color of most of the Jews killed in the holocaust?
Racism is a much more “big tent” in some ways than white supremacism. That said, a lot of people who don’t consider themselves to be white and are proud of that can actually be very white supremacist.
Jewish people in the Holocaust weren’t considered white. Hell, most white supremacists these days still don’t consider them white. They are definitely still victims of white supremacy.
My grandpa, in the US at the time, was not considered “white” in the 30s. On his documents were printed Race: Hebrew.
Even after he came beck from WW 2 he had trouble getting hired due to being a Jewish immigrant, even though Ashkenazi Jews were officially considered “white” by then.
I heard this a lot back in the… early 2000s? when all of this seemed a lot more academic. That personal bigotry couldn’t/shouldn’t be (called) racism, per se, without societal/institutional power behind it.
That’s essentially it. Whether you call it that or not is basically just semantics, but there’s a huge distinction between prejudice with societal power behind it and prejudice without such power.
This is often mistranslated as “black people can’t be racist”, while what it really means is that reverse racism isn’t a serious thing. Black people can be racist and often are, in the systemic sense, by internalizing and reinforcing societies prejudices. A lot of colorism would fall into this category.
“This is often mistranslated as “black people can’t be racist”, while what it really means is that reverse racism isn’t a serious thing. ”
It’s not AS serious. On this level in the scenario provided it has long standing effects on how I see potential mates. Not a grand loss in the…y’know…state of the world but could potentially end up effecting a HUGE part of my life. Assuming I ever get a girlfriend/wife who isn’t black.
To be honest this kind of argument really sucks. That pop-definition of racism wasn’t supposed to escape academia and become everyday.
Either racism is a structural issue, in which case it has nothing to do with the prejudices of individuals, and the statement “my mom is a racist” makes as much sense for you to say as it does for Chelsea Clinton to say, which is none. Or, it’s the prejudices of an individual, in which case every person who can be targeted by a prejudiced individual can be a target of racism, including Chelsea Clinton if your mom throws a shitfit because you’re dating her. The inconsistent conflation of the worst most inconsistent aspects of both definitions is a fucking disease in the discourse and I’m vicariously fucking annoyed that people hold you “accountable” to it, *especially* given the likelihood that the individual assuming to know more than you about racism is likely operating from a position of their own chauvanism.
Hmmm. Well, racism has a structural and a psychological side. Historical racism is DEFINITELY based on white supremacy, which predates racism by a country mile. But once racism becomes established, it’s used to explain pretty much every social inequality there is and it becomes very “big tent”. I’d say a black mom who wants her kid to date black is most likely engaged in sort of a defensive chauvinism generated by racism or, at most, the belief that the world is racist and that’s the way the smart money bets. But I don’t think they themselves necessarily must believe that the human species is dividable into hierarchically organized subspecies. There are vanishingly few true black supremacists out there, although one occasionally runs into them. Even so, I have a hard time seeing that point of view as anything but tragic and laughable (Marcus Garvey, looking at you here) because the racism game’s roots ARE INDEED white supremacy and it would take a huge global historical defeat of the “white race” for that to change. And, even if it were to change, I bet we’d still see “lighter is better” in the new world order.
Y’know what’s sad? The poster’s mom probably wants him to date black, but not TOO black.
“lighter is better” is the basis of the caste system in India.
No it isn’t.
Source: I’m Indian.
This psychoanalysis is rooted in very little information, about half of which is the “race” of the person you’re psychoanalysing.
“Either racism is a structural issue, in which case it has nothing to do with the prejudices of individuals, and the statement “my mom is a racist” makes as much sense for you to say as it does for Chelsea Clinton to say, which is none.”
I’m having trouble understanding this. Structural issues can and do manifest in individual attitudes. That’s what makes them structural – it goes all the way down from all levels of society to individuals. Structural sexism and heterocentrism work the same way. Individuals shape and are shaped by the structures in society, they’re not divorced.
If racism is a structural issue, then what you’re targeted by is a structure, not an attitude. An individual can have an attitude, and that attitude can be shaped by the structure, but the structure is not held up by attitudes, and while an attitude can target an individual, the attitude, while being informed by racism-as-structure, the attitude is not the mechanism of the structure.
This sounds like a petty and hard-to-understand semantic point, but when investigating questions like “is it racist for a black woman to not want her children to date white people” what needs to be investigated is the role racial endogamy plays in the structure and whether the attitude of the black woman in question is the mechanism of that structure. Since it’s not, by overemphasising her culpability in the structure, you’re scapegoating this woman for what is really a personal attitude problem (if it is a problem; for OP’s sake, it is).
The argument that OP’s mom “can’t be racist” stems from this, and is usually inconsistently applied, because if a white parent doesn’t want their kids dating a black person, all of the things I just said apply.
This is stuff that applies only to a specialised discussion. In the “playground definition”, you can absolutely call an individual a racist, by which you mean that their attitudes are informed by a racist structure. This assessment is subjective and fallible, and if a black person wants to call their mom a racist you’re a complete asshole to correct them, because that is not the definition of specialised discussion of structural issues but the language of telling your buddy stuff that sucks over lunch.
Anyone who says that black people can’t be racists is an idiot, and a racist themselves.
I too have accepted my possible fate of dying alone.
Should we make a club?
But then we’ll have friends and it won’t count as “dying alone” anymore.
Fugde you, I’m praying to get us all a nice boot in this week.
Nah. We have a saying here in Brazil and it is TOTALLY true: there’s an old shoe for every diseased foot. 😉 You’ll be incredibly surprised how hard it is to die alone and, let me tell you from hard experience, there are much worse fates than dying alone. Being driven to suicide by your partner, for one.
Thanks. That one goes in my ‘neat sayings’ folder.
Huh. I’ve always heard it as “an ass for every saddle”, personally.
It is fucked up. But it’s a bridge you can only cross when you come to it. =/
My second wife’s parents gave her a hard time for marrying a Gentile. We paid no attention.
Hugs. Tell your mom that if she wants grandkids, she should be happy you are dating ANY girl at all.
I would still consider that racism. It might not be systematic racism but that is still very much having prejudice based solely on the person’s race rather than disliking them for valid reasons.
That sucks. I could understand advising you to avoid someone like Linda in the comic but telling you that you’ll have to choose between her and your potential wife if she isn’t black is f—ed up.
Also, why do parents always think they’re going to win that fight?
Oh Walky, your attempts at not revealing your secret identity are worse than your attempts at being intimidating. And yet we thank you for your… service? Bumbling? Attempts?
Either way we need to address panel 3: Walky I’m sure your mother will be fine with Lucy because she is nice and intelligent. Lucy isn’t enough of a “troublemaker” to set off your mom, ptobably. As for your dad he’ll just agree with your mom since he’s a coward.
This assumes that her impressions of Lucy will have more than a fleeting relationship to reality.
Yeah, remember that she judged Marcie as a ‘troublemaker’ for climbing on playground equipment higher than was deemed acceptable at age, like, five. And has never reassessed that judgment, including blaming Marcie for attacks she was the victim of by Leland the budding supervillain to reinforce that she was ‘trouble’ and Sal shouldn’t have anything to do with her.
(The playground also led to some charming assessment of Marcie’s family based off her either not having an immediately-apparent parent or a parent who was present but didn’t intervene when Marcie was climbing higher than is safe. Which reflected poorly, of course, on Marcie. We have no idea WHAT the circumstances are with Marcie’s parents because they have never appeared onscreen, but there are actually scenarios where this isn’t a sign they’re irredeemably neglectful.)
Pretty sure it was established that Marcie’s parents are undocumented immigrants and she might be also, or an “anchor baby” (hate that term).
The only person who said anything like that who’d have reason to know is Sal, who said at the rally that Robin would ‘deport yer parents if it’d get her enough votes.’ (The other two times it’s been brought up were the principal of Sal’s school – says way more about him than anything else since he has NO WAY to know, not knowing Marcie at all – and Charles, whose wife at least is noticeably hostile enough that I wouldn’t trust him in case it gets back to her.) The thing is, the way the Republican party was going even in 2016 (strip published in late August, probably written before Trump had the nomination) rhetoric was already bad enough that that could also refer to immigrants with fully active visas. It’s been brought up enough to be a possibility, but since it’s been brought up mostly in the context of Sal’s plot about her parents’ racism, it’s just as likely to be Charles making an assumption as anything else. Given Linda tried to get Amber expelled for her father’s actions, do you really trust her not to do something really heinous to get Marcie out of Sal’s life if she did know anything for sure?
Yeah, I’m guessing if it IS true, Sal’s parents don’t know 100% for sure. Hell, frankly, people who were born in the US were being mistaken for undocumented immigrants in deportations, particularly in the south. I remember cases like that making the news before Trump.
Bumbling attempts.
Seriously. Giving all credit to Sal’s interpretation of things,* Linda has at worst unconscious bias—like “I’m wary until I’m shown that she’s ‘a good one.’” Don’t get me wrong, it’s still racist, but not exactly “mom will be pissed”/“Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” style.
*While at this point we can probably assume, based on how DOA has been framed overall, that Sal is correct, it never fully fit for me. I’ve always thought that an equally likely explanation for Linda’s behavior was internalized misogyny. I know too many older (white) women who dote on their sons but are borderline estranged from their daughters. The Walkerton family dynamic is common even among all-white families, and I always saw more of that there than the race thing. But hey, Linda could be awful in several ways so who knows.
Yeah she seems to be uptight in kinda…every way and those ways just sorta end up going against a lotta groups. “oh she’s acting wild and her parents are nowhere around, that’s bad.”, “oh her hair is messy and kinky and his is straight and neat, that’s good”, “oh that girl’s father put my children’s life in danger, she should be expelled”, etc.
She’s just sorta got a stick up her ass and that causes her to hyper focus on any trait that’s not the idealized american family dynamic.
Someone up above said that Linda will always be commenting, in Lucy’s earshot, how Walky let that pretty, hard working Dorothy get away.
Yeah, my first thought when Sal said, “You came out whiter” was “or you came out male.”
I’m still going to sullenly vote for an arc where Walky just attends study sessions and is awkward around strangers.
How the hell did the Walkertons hook up in the first place. Was Linda hoping to dilute the Black gene pool?
He’s not like the rest of them.
He’s a credit to his race.
He’s articulate.
So, in short, yes.
“OnE oF tHe GoOd OnEs.”
She probably met him in a circumstance where she got to know him as a real person, but still thinks other POC are “those people” and obviously up to no good. I mean, just look at Sal! Her daughter’s a hooligan and has *gasp* curly hair!
I feel like everyone is under the impression that you have to be actively racist to have racist tendencies and biases. Most people will simply have small traits, something like “oh I don’t like this hairstyle” or “why doesn’t this guy sound black”
I think the problem is everyone assumes everyone racist is just a big racist asshole and it makes them not look at their own behavior. If you asked Linda “are you racist” she’d say “WHAT!? No? I married a black man? I love movies and music with black people. I have plenty of black friends.” and like…she’s not wrong cuz she’s not sitting around hoping for black people’s downfall. Her racism is just subconscious and she’s probably not fully aware of it.
Bingo! A huge chunk of people fall into this category. Most everyday average people have internalized some sort of bullshit. The difference really comes down to what you do when you’re confronted over your biases and prejudices. Linda definitely seems like the type to get defensive about it, most people try to justify it by saying they’re not as bad as others. “I’m not a racist because I’m vote democrat, or because 4chan neo nazis exist and I’m not that.”
I’m a black dude and I still check myself from time to time even against my own culture. (Personally I blame watching too much Boondocks).
Boondocks is awesome tho 😛
But yeah, I think nobody really wants to confront the idea of being racist. If anything I find it kinda suspect when someone is super quick to shut someone down as a racist or talk about how not racist they are. It makes me worry that they themselves aren’t self aware. Like they’re like “Linda’s so racist and evil! unlike me. I’m not racist and she is, and she must always say and do racist things, as racists are ought to do. I don’t need to evaluate the ways she’s racist or how I myself act because the story’s already told us she is and I’ll expect her to say or do something awful and unreasonable because all racists are cartoons versions of racist.”
I once watched the Boondocks Saints movie and I had assumed it was related to the show even though it wasn’t animated, so I was like “I don’t need to pay attention until the Black kids show up.”
It was about halfway through the movie that I figured out it was entirely unrelated.
I still have no idea what that movie was about.
It’s the prequel, Huey and Riley show up at the end.
(this is a lie)
Checking yourself is of the essence. I grew up in West Virginia, which isn’t he most racist state in the union, but sure isn’t the least. Sometimes I still have to tell myself, “Don’t think black man. Think human being.” Way less than I used to, though.
Most racism is insidious precisely because it is subtle. It’s easy to condemn the visible part of the iceberg– the Nazis, the Klan, but it’s harder to fight the stuff that you never really realized was in your own brain until you thought about it. I’ve noticed some truly awful shit in my own head at times just by questioning why I was coming to conclusions that “seemed racist out of context”. Turns out the context was racist, and the context was my brain.
watching a buncha old disney movies as a little kid way too young to recognize what aspects of them were super racist probably didn’t help though
So many Yikes moments.
it’s Walky™!
We spent A MONTH in a basement with Walky in his Nightguy costume!
The first two panels had me awwwwing and then I reached the third panel and had to grab my wrist to restrain myself from punching through my screen. DAMN YOU WALKERTON PARENTS.
You can still stop him, Dorothy.
For Lucy’s sake.
Well actually Walky your actions were extremely cowardly during the kidnapping
You then proceeded to put yourself in a situation where you were likely to, potentially, get your head smacked in
Yeah you’re a catch all right (the women in this strip really could be doing a lot better for themselves)
I’m 27 and I’d also be pretty cowardly during a kidnapping. Turns out I’m afraid of being murdered by big dudes.
I didn’t expect Walky to more than anyone else, I just didn’t expect him to do nothing at all and leave it all to his friends
I guess maybe Walky and I have differing opinions on what it means to be a man
I guess that makes me a boy.
being strong and brave are great qualities, and i commend you on possessing them, but women can display them as well and men can be physically weak and lack courage and still be called men.
seriously. i think you don’t realize the damage such stereotypes cause?
Amen
What, you wouldn’t fight off all the big buff guys with your bare hands and machine gun? Can you even call yourself a man of you’re not always five seconds from totally going all Rambo on some poor motherfucker?
I expected him to do something, anything.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/03-when-it-crumbles/rraarrrrrr/
If he’d fallen down and let Blaine trip over him that would have been something useful, if he’d cried out for help, grabbed the arm with the hammer and held on
In hindsight (after rereading the storyline) grabbing the arm might be more than could reasonably be expected from Walky but I still stand with the falling down or shouting out options
This is why I hate when stories have drama. Because we always end up with this monday morning quarterback mentality. Like when I watch a scary movie and someone’s like “why did they do that irrational thing? I would’ve done ‘x’. And it’s like…The person in this situation is SCARED out of their fucking mind.
My mom was attacked by a dog on a walk. She screamed and ran to grab a stick to fend it off. That didn’t work and she ran back and forth until a neighbor picked her up in his car. It was only once she got home later that afternoon she remembered she carries around PEPPER SPRAY for the express purpose of keeping people from attacking her. She TOTALLY forgot about it because she was scared.
But y’know…if she was a character in a movie and not my beloved mother scared out of her mind, I might just say “YOU DUMB IDIOT, YOU’VE GOT FUCKING PEPPERSPRAY”
Your mom screamed, which is good and is also what Walky could have done.
She wasn’t being held by the neck with a weapon aimed at her by the dog though, was she? Blaine could’ve and probably would’ve choked him out if he tried to. That’s kinda…why you put your arm around people’s neck when you take them hostage. It’s a great scream deterrent.
Remember Aesop’s fables:
“It is easy to be brave when there is no danger.“
“monday morning quarterback mentality” ^^
this thread really reminds me of a video essay by Big Joel and Mothcub about a similar take on how some men should’ve displayed bravery in a gunpoint situation.
it’s strikingly relevant up to around halfway through. the second half is a bit more abstract, about how the concept of “empathy” is overextended and misused, i think it’s still interesting but whatever
Aesop’s fables are very useful and, as a Corrections Officer, I totally get it
@milu
Thanks for that! I remember that tweet discussed and it also really irked me.
The only reason I wouldn’t be is the highly likely possibility of me going into one of my unfortunate berserker rage modes caused by the PTSD my parents gifted me with and me getting a few red panels. His actions during the kidnapping were those of a relatively mental healthy individual.
That’s just how his fight/flight/freeze response is calibrated.
I mean, despite the joking he was clearly experiencing trauma and doesn’t have the fight response many of the others do. And he wouldn’t exactly have had the time to try and retool his brain’s responses, because unlike everyone else who’d been kidnapped he’d never been in a potentially violent situation before. (Sarah’s a cusp case since she was the one who brought a bat to rescue Joyce, but Becky was kidnapped once already, Ethan had likewise been a hostage, Dina had tried to derail Ross, Dorothy had a knife drawn on her by Ryan, and Amber and Joyce have too many examples to name even just listing ones that were Amber and not AG at the controls. Everyone other than Walky had some reason to know how their brains would react in a situation like that going in. Walky didn’t. That’s not a moral failing of Walky’s, that’s just him lucking out by this cast’s standards and not having been in a situation with deadly weapons before.)
He’s a flight/fawn type. That’s not inherently less noble or less effective than fight or freeze type trauma responses. Walky has plenty of issues, but his reaction during the kidnapping shouldn’t be held against him any more than Amber freezing in the convenience store should be held against her. (Stabbing a restrained and unarmed person, that we can talk about. But the initial freeze? No.)
And then there’s this strip: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/thick/
To some keeping your head and not panicking the whole way through is brave enough, I’d rather be stuck in that situation with someone chiming in with something witty than weeping or freaking the whole time. Not saying that neither/or is a proper response though just saying I wouldn’t prefer the ladder.
I took that as Sal trying to make her brother feel better but I probably read it wrong
Oh, that’s right. Linda is just terrible. How could I forget?
You know I wasn’t expecting Walky to actually WANT to ask Lucy out, I’m surprised. He’s never seemed that into her.
Showing feelings isn’t manly, I guess? I wasn’t really getting the vibe he was into her either.
I don’t think he wants to either, so much as he doesn’t dislike the idea.
Also, Dorothy is smart, so if she thinks it’s a good idea, it must be worth trying.
A date isn’t the rest of your life.
Yes…? No one said it was…so I’m not sure why you mention it.
There are plenty of people who don’t want to go on a single date with someone they’re not already interested in.
I dare say it’s the majority of people.
I was agreeing with you. He may not be head over hills in love with Lucy, but he doesn’t hate the idea, Dorothy suggested it and it’s just a date. I kind of see that as a package.
Ah. Gotcha.
Something about finding out someone likes you makes you more willing to see them in a romantic light. Like I don’t think my first GF was crushing on me or anything but she still said yes when I asked her out.
On the rare occasion when I actually realize a woman is (or was years ago) into me, I definitely tend to view her in a more romantic light. When I don’t know if a woman is into me, which is most of the time, I tend to try to act like I’m not into her either when I’m around her to avoid making things more awkward, even if I do think she’s cute.
Completely unrelated to this comic but is it possible Joyces issues with being outside by herself were exacerbated by her poor eyesight?
Oh, 100%. Imagine being underwater, surrounded by extremely hungry sharks, except the sharks also have phones and roofies.
I was trying to work out if it was mostly every guy reminding her of Ryan therefore all the guys looked like Ryan or if it was because every guy looked blurry therefore every guy might have been Ryan
It’s doubtful every guy looked like Ryan because blurry. She recognized her friends and acquaintances with no issue, and they also would have been blurry.
Then again, maybe just the average looking blurry guys reminded her of him? The people she knew were all recognizably different from Ryan with just a glance. Walky’s hair and skin color. Joe’s size. Mike’s being an asshole. Danny’s hat.
Danny didn’t have a hat when the PTSD visions started. Joe and Ethan both also have very different hair colors as well in their favor.
I think blurriness could well be a factor (I think Dorothy even brought that up to Becky in Operation Get Joyce To The Optometrist,) but I suspect it was also the simple fact that ANYONE can be in a crowd like that and if you can’t see everyone in it, you don’t know until it’s too late. Volume of people making them blend together or being all around you so you can’t track them all rather than inability to read any specific face, basically. (Remember how Ryan actively stalked Dorothy for hours before the night of the stabbing, and she hadn’t had a clue?)
I was actually joking about Danny’s hat, trying to say there’s nothing distinct about him otherwise.
Also, I’m not sure she had even met Danny at that time.
As for the blurriness, I want to say there was a strip where Joyce was outside and she saw individual Ryan’s walking around, no crowds. So that implies trauma that makes people look like your attacker or a physical ailment preventing you from telling people apart. Or both.
On a personal note, I’m both nearsighted and have bad astigmatism, but I never had such an issue. I was often unsure of someone without my glasses, but I didn’t mistake them specifically as someone else. Therefore, my anecdotal evidence, which, as we all know, is the superior kind of evidence, leads me to believe it’s a little of column A, a little of column B.
Joyce didn’t know what Danny looked like (as seen in the strip where Lucy asks her about boys).
Yay…
Racism…
Just what was missing…
I think it’s nice that Walky has a high enough opinion of Lucy to wonder if he’s even good enough for her. He notices her.
Aw crapbaskets, I forgot Walky’s mom is a crazy racist when I started shipping those two. Now we’re getting it and suddenly I’m anxious
But look how cheerful Walky is at the idea. Much more cheerful than he is about discovering Lucy likes him.
Re alt text: I’ve long held that if anyone wanders into the Batcave, Bruce should just pass it off as an elaborate shrine he built to Batman out of gratitude for what he’s done for Gotham City. I mean, it’s totally believable. Rich people do weird stuff with their money! Also, his parents were killed by a mugger, so he has strong feelings about street crime!
Walky doesn’t have any excuses quite that good.
It’s so weird to see racist people married to POC with POC children and they’re S T I L L R A C I S T
I mean, not all racism is the clear cut, right in your face shit. Yotomoe had a good comment about this up above and phrased it better than I’m gonna be able to, so I’m just gonna quote him here
“I think the problem is everyone assumes everyone racist is just a big racist asshole and it makes them not look at their own behavior. If you asked Linda “are you racist” she’d say “WHAT!? No? I married a black man? I love movies and music with black people. I have plenty of black friends.” and like…she’s not wrong cuz she’s not sitting around hoping for black people’s downfall. Her racism is just subconscious and she’s probably not fully aware of it.”
I don’t know if “misogynoir” is the right term, but her racism seems like it’s strongly tied to gender. That would at least make it consistent why she likes her husband and son but not her daughter or son’s potential girlfriend. (I’m sure we’ll find out much, much more than we want in a future story arc.)
I think Sal said quite early in the strip that Linda likes Walky better because Walky looks less black, which was probably the first point at which I thought “yipes”.
There was also our first clue, before we meet Linda or Sal says anything about it, which was Walky describing Sal as black and himself as generically beige.
Passed off as a joke at the time without enough context, but in retrospect a clear view of the racial dynamics in that household.
I suspect you’re right, Anywhere.
Lots of misogynists are married to women and have women as children.
Exposure to actual examples of the Other can assist in reducing the sort of racism that comes from simple ignorance, not personally knowing any… but that’s not the only cause, and it doesn’t always work.
There have actually been a sociological study on that. The specific example was that knowing lots of Indigenous people made people less likely to be blatantly, outwardly racist about Indigenous people. It did NOT, however, make them more likely to be in favour of policies or action to ameliorate racism against Indigenous people or any more well versed in Indigenous issues. I wouldn’t be surprised if that crossed into other marginalized groups as well.
Also, sometimes these folks’ attraction to POC is itself racist because it’s based on stereotypes. (Not saying that’s what happened with Linda, just in general.)
What always gets me is when they’re all shocked when strangers treat their spouse/children the same way they themselves treat other POC.
Nothing gets you over a crush on Wally like talking to Walky, at least temporarily.
Damnit I forgot about Walky’s parents regarding his romantic relationships! Like maybe they won’t say a word, maybe they are only mildly annoying in investigating if she is “a good girl” (*shudders*) but the anxious feeling of “a dinner together could get really cringy and awful” it’s still there.
Yes, Walky. That’s obviously the most important part of this conversation.
I can see it now… Linda expressing surprise that Walky would feel that way in a way that totally shits on Sal. “Why would we be disappointed? It’s not like your girlfriend holds up stores or something.”
i might be in the minority here but i actually dont think walky and lucy would be a good couple. lucy has placed walky on a ridiculously high pedestal .
they also both lack communication skills. it can be hard to read people ((it’s something i struggle with)) so i can let walky slide even thought it was very obvious. but lucy has just been saying “IM IN LOVE WITH YOU” in every single way imaginable, except by actually TELLING walky her thoughts and feelings
my guess is that they try to date and either 1 walky gets overwhelmed by lucys affection and feels uncomfortable or 2 walky doesnt match up to lucys expectations and she is disappointed
I mean it’s not like I think they’re soul mates or anything. I just think they should give it a shot. This is DOA, how many of the couples in here don’t suffer from…all those problems you just said?
And that’s not even taking into account Dorothy’s inevitable flip.
They might not be a good couple, but I’d like to at least see them try being together anyway just in case.
They might learn something useful.
I honestly don’t care if it means they get together, I think if they have even a semi-fun date together, they can still decide they’re not great for each other after all and move on and still get along fine. Not every date has to succeed or lead into a long-term thing.
This.
Between Dorothy’s ‘brand’ comment and Walky’s casual familial racism bit, there’s a lot of subtext to unpack in this comic.
what’s there to unpack about “brand”?
i just took it to mean that everyone thinks Walky’s a bit of a child, that’s just sort of his thing, but it’s not all he is.
… I was actually doubting that Walky would have been interested. I should have known better. Jennifer said that without a crotch to the face Lucy had no chance, so of course the ship was going to happen.
That doesn’t track, but this is Walky so who knows.
oh my god that third panel.
Sad to see Walky think only people with some problem can be interested in him.
Sad, but relatable.
“Would the real Nightguy have been that stupid? I don’t think so!”
I wonder if Lucy has the same abstinence hangups as Joyce and Becky?
Okay. The “what is wrong with that person, how can anyone possibly like me” is way to familiar.
We should have t-shirts made.
we don’t deserve t-shirts, and they would only draw (the wrong kind of) attention to us. :p
Ughhh, Linda – and to a lesser extent, Charles – continue to be a wrench in their kids’ happiness.
panel 3 Walky seems pretty happy about it though.
Dorothy, take Walky by the ear and march him back to Lucy before he can wiggle away.
The four faces of Walky. He’s not timid but he is traumatized and his family of origin didn’t do him any favors. I’m surprised to see people my age (2-3x that of most commenters) who are so clearly the product of their families. Change is hard.
Walky: “y’know, she hasnt even passed me a not asking Do You Like Me, how can I re-eally be sure?!”
Dorothy: “Walky how would she pass notes to you, you two do not even have class together.”
Wow that’s a thing that was said out loud..
This whole storyline, I’ve been dreading the moment that Walky’s mom finds out he let himself get dumped by a future white female president for whatever the hell she’s gonna call Lucy to her face. I’m honestly very glad that Walky has gained enough awareness to be prepared for that to happen, even if he definitely isn’t prepared to actually do anything about it.
Yeah yikes, way to put Lucy in a scary spot Walky, making her have to deal with *LINDA*
Why would they be pissed though? Walky’s dad is black and his mom is literally married to a black guy.
Charles is half-black, half-white. Maybe he assimilated into white society, which made him appealing to Linda, since he’s the “acceptable black guy”. Sal accused him and Linda of favoring Walky because he passed for white and she did not. Sal acted out – for good reason, for Marcie – and her convenience store theft added fuel to being stereotyped by her folks, particularly Linda.
If she finds out about Lucy she will immediately think the worst of her because of Sal and other external factors too. I reiterate that Sal is not to blame, it’s on Linda and Charles’ prejudice and bad decisions.
That is (what Walky perceives as) the joke.
Racist people can in fact marry black people and have black friends and still just HAPPEN to take issue with their children’s black partners. They can JUST HAPPEN to always have a bad feeling about them just as apparently Sal’s friend Marcie just HAPPENED to apparently ‘live with’ and spend time with ‘hoodlums’ so she just HAPPENED to be someone Linda disliked. And Charles is a pushover who goes with whatever she says so ‘parents’ might as well just stand for ‘Linda and her husband who will just stand there and let her be awful’.
Linda is not explicitly racist as in ‘actually would advocate that racism is good actually’ but implicitly in things she says and does. He’s not saying she would say out loud ‘the FUCK are you doing dating a BLACK girl’ but she might just HAPPEN to ‘mysteriously’ dislike Lucy or have a bad feeling about her.
She wont like her “Unruly and unkept hair”
Walky I will fight your parents if they’re mad that Lucy is black. I’ve got a bat.
It’s called “COSPLAY”, Dotty!
Ya should read a boo- I mean- You should check some events, every once in a while, girl!