That’s why she looks the maddest in the last panel. Joe’s admission means that it was just not a random clueless dudebro thing to say but that she brought it upon herself. A horndog being casually misogynist would normally barely make a blip on Sarah’s cynical weariness. Being outsmarted by the said horndog is a whole different thing.
Well I guess this means Joyce won the comic contest!…Or she and Becky came up with a really funny strip that will win her the comic contest! The rules of happiness vampirism are absolute!
Good thing it won’t happen in this universe. Even if I personally think Joyce has had a enough bi moments that I could see her going gay for Dorothy, the future president has said before she’s extremely straight.
I mean, don’t most people generally look more attractive when they look happy? The comment isn’t problematic for being false, it’s problematic because on its face what you’re telling the person is that you don’t really care why they’re not smiling and just want them to smile.
It also suggests that the speaker does not consider the person’s happiness to be a goal in itself, but only as a means to the end of supplying prettiness to the consumers thereof.
I was just thinking that. “You look prettier when you’re happy” is much nicer than “you’re prettier when you smile”. It also implies that the speaker is intimate enough with the other person to recognise a genuine smile.
Yeah this is the kind of thing you acknowledge like “you’re in a good mood today”, not “you should smile more because it makes you prettier”.
Is Joe incapable of giving a complement that isn’t backhanded, even if his intentions are good? Remember when he said he liked Joyce’s glasses and that they made her “look smart” (thereby implying she didn’t look smart before)?
Joe hasn’t struck me as the sort to neg people. This game with Sarah was just that, a (kind of) stated challenge. But Joe’s usual attempts at seducing women seem to have been very direct. He does have a kind of “damn it Danny” thing going on though, so maybe theres more there that I’m just not remembering today.
…see, when you said Mike “Classic” I’m assuming you meant theDumbiverse Mike, but I initially thought you meant the original Walkyverse Mike. Which would be wildly implausible for a college comic considering he would have to be at least 40 or so by now— hell, he was already visibly graying at the temples by the time Shortpacked! ended.
Without spoiling anything, dimension-hopping was a major part of a mid-Shortpacked! arc, and was featured in the April Fool’s Day update a couple years ago.
At the beginning of the school year Mike punched Joe in the face. Obviously what’s happened now is the energy signature from those punches attracted Mike’s energy after his life force has been entirely spent
I’m sorry, but are trying to say happiness makes a person stupid her, Willis? Because Sarah is more intelligent than that. And even being in an…unusual for her…emotional state, shouldn’t have kept from seeing that possibility a mile away.
if there is one lesson i have learnt from being an extremely funny person that most people most of the time stare at in embarrassement as i laugh uncontrollably at my own jokes, it’s that most people don’t have the faintest sense of humour, poor them.
…that was a joke, it was hilarious, you’re welcome *bows*
omg are you flirting with me?!!!
or is this some sort of ridiculous misunderstanding hahaha
i am so flustered rn
also i may have exaggerated for retorical effect. i do occasionally succeed at making (other) people laugh. and i do usually retain some measure of control over my reactions at my own dazzling wit (now i feel like i have to be honest on the internet, look what you’ve done)
You should get back into it! I find it has developed into something very similar to Dumbing of Age: long-running plots, well-motivated interesting characters, and the creator has grown A LOT in his portrayal of different groups. My absolute favorite.
To be fair, while some variations of mindfullness are wrapped up with historical religious sects, MBSR (mindfulness based stress reduction) is a science based theraputic meditation that does not contain any religion.
Me too. When I moved I got a new (to me) idea. Now when I meet people I text msg myself their name and the context of where I met them. I’ve found scrolling my msg history helps me associate the names much better.
(I can remember the faces but often all the associated data goes under a different file number, folder, nomenclature, with a different set of standards in an alternate dimension. If something in the data is referenced I can remember the person and their name (sometimes) but the the face image pointer is a bad reference from an MS-DOS partition to an experimental mac-OS hard-drive across the eighth dimension.
good job Joe. some people need and deserve to be triggered for their petty obsessions and need to have their faces rubbed in their own hypersensitivity.
While I accept the truth that Joe’s comment was out of line, I will point out that Sarah believed her happiness was the result of other people being unhappy, and was therefore reveling in other people’s misery.
“I’m unusually joyous today while my friend and roommate is miserable. I believe there’s causation, and people are getting mad at me about it. AITA?”
“YTA You don’t have to rub it in.”
“NTA Just because you’re having a good day that doesn’t mean their bad day is your fault.”
“ESH They shouldn’t be mad at you for having a good day, but you’re not some kind of magical happiness vampire either.”
“NTA Just sever and tell them to go get therapy, OP.”
“INFO Do they take your happiness away all the time? Have you considered counseling?”
Sarah is actually just in a good mood and pretending it’s some cosmic event because she’s built her entire identity around being a grumpy piss goblin and acknowledging that she can be anything else than that and be emotionally available to people means letting them know things about you.
Sarah hugged Joyce one time because she wanted to let her know that nothing will ever be the same and that’s a good thing, because the way things were sucked and they can be made better, then immediately afterwards Becky and Dina ran into the room, made it a group hug, and Dina started smiling like a little shit because Sarah was proven wrong. That’s one of the few times Sarah put herself out there for someone and she got laughed at for it.
I don’t understand how that compliment was misogynist.
I understand that breaking people down to “being pretty” and nothing else is wrong, but surely that doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate someone’s beauty at all?
There’s a thing where some men will tell women “you’d be prettier if you smiled”. It’s such a thing that I didn’t have to type the whole thing, it autocompleted after ‘r’.
Yeah that’s true, but in this case he’s just noting how she looks since it’s new and complimenting it. It’s honestly one of the least misogynistic things he’s said.
1) Using a misognystic stock phrase in a different context doesn’t actually stop it being a misogynistic stock phrase. Intent, as they say, isn’t magic.
2) If there is a context in which it’s not misogynistic to use a misogynistic stock phrase, “Intentionally trying to upset a woman by using a misogynistic stock phrase” ain’t it.
behind that compliment there is this extensive history of men thinking women purpose in their world is to decorate it or make it prettier so they can be more confortable, specially without thinking that other people are entitled to not smile if they don’t feel like it, if they are having a bad day or anything. It has happened so much even to when we are having a wonderful day it can be really infurating for a random dude to think our happiness is about them and not about us. that is why.
Ryan Gosling. One of only two dudes on my celebrity fantasy list. Of course he’s also pretty before he smiles. The delight being that he’s on the list for his personality and character.
Smiles are nice but “you’re prettier when you smile” basically means “whatever you’re feeling at the moment what matters is that you are physically attractive.”
It can be sincerely meant as a compliment but that’s a bug, not a feature.
of course this being Sarah, while most people might take it as a clumsy sort of compliment she hates the idea of people (esp. Joe) finding her appealing.
which is an added reason why the comment just instantly destroys her mood xD
He’s not wrong, Sarah does look better when she’s smiling. But I’d argue that most people probably look better when they smile, unless their normal smile is like the Joker’s or something similarly creepy like this.
So, the problem with your example there, is that that is a fantastic smile. I mean, damn. Dudes aren’t my thing normally, but mmmm…. that page can make me wonder if I should reconsider things.
When some isn’t smiling because they aren’t happy, the reduction of prettiness is not they problem. Telling them to cheer up or dissimulate so that they become prettier ornaments in our environment is selfish and objectifying.
Is getting a positive result on a test for something negative ‘passing’ it? Like if someone said they’d passed a tox screen, I’d assume they were clear, not that they had something in their system. Or are you meaning that Joe is demonstrating that he’s not actually a douchebag because he knows what he said was wrong but he thought that Sarah was actually asking for it and he also knows what is culturally loaded into the complement he gave her?
The idea that women’s appearance is a perpetually relevant topic has a lot of baggage. “You’re prettier when you smile” is a total cliché, as drs pointed out above.
Women being called pretty when they want to look pretty and sollicit that sort of feedback is fine, but commenting on a women’s appearance out of nowhere, especially coming from a man thus often implying unprovoked heterosexual objectification, is condescending and gross. It’s a double standard that stems from men not willing to take women seriously as subjects and reassigning them to a status as sexual objects at every turn.
Also, context. This could be an innocuous and (maybe??) sweet thing to say in a different situation, but given Sarah and Joe’s personalities and relationship, yeah, it’s misogynistic.
Also, “pretty” is one of those gendered words the male counterpart of which (“handsome” i guess?) carries very different connotations.
It’s become somewhat of a cliche for people to tell women who aren’t smiling that they would be prettier if they smiled, as if that was the only concern about their lack of a smile. It’s become common enough that most women are sick of it.
I guess a similar thing would be disabled people and those questions that are asked all the time, enough that even if they are fairly innocuous on their own get to the point where you would get snapped at for asking.
Also, because you wouldn’t say a man looks prettier when he smiles.
I mean, you might for *some* men. But there are others where you would absolutely not.
However, just about every woman is subject to it. The only exceptions I’ve personally met are women who always smile in public… with public being defined as “anyone who might possibly at some point think to make that statement.”
… just to be clear, my mother’s mother was told she’d look prettier if she smiled.
I’ve seen her smile. She had the kind of smile that would terrify young children, and give them nightmares for at least 40 years. I say, because I had at least one of those nightmares last year, and I saw her smile 41 years ago. (It was only the once. For that, I consider myself lucky.)
To be clear, I did say to her that her smile was frightening. To the best of my ability, I attempted to not let her know. But I’m pretty sure she knew, even before she made the attempt to smile. I mean, she’d just got done telling my mother that she had the kind of smile that would scare young children.
sorry about your nightmare (and you’re grandmother’s smile, i guess??)
i think it’s also often the case that “you look prettier when you smile” doesn’t mean so much “wow it fills me with joy to see your beautiful smile” as, “please stop having opinions and getting legitimately upset about me being a sexist jerk, i much prefer it when you act all mild and conciliatory because then it’s much easier for me to ignore your criticism”.
Oh, I see… Well it’s true that in the few instances I saw it used, it didn’t exactly feel… let’s just say it didn’t feel genuine, I see what you all mean.
Also, thanks a lot for the story about your grandmother, Some Ed, and sorry about your nightmares ^_^’
Wait, Nancy is still around? How? I mean, that girl looks as young as she was when my mom was a kid. At least, according to the Wikipedia page, which has a reference photo from way back then.
Yeah, I know about comic time, but that seems pretty ridiculous.
It got a new artist and a continuity reboot a couple years ago. It’s actually good now, not sappy saccharine sweet like it did under the last artist’s tenure. If you read Nancy Classics (reprints of the old Ernie Bushmiller strips of the 50s and 60s), it has a similar “troublemaking youth” tone.
(As for characters aging, I think Nancy was always a floating “it happens now” timeline, like DoA.)
Joe is aware that he’s being an ass, but does he realize that the specific way he’s being an ass + his rationale (“I feel like you challenged me”) is pretty classic toxic masculinity?
Please elaborate. It’s pretty human nature that some people feel extremely compelled to answer when you tell someone “I don’t think you can do x” and the obvious answer is, “yes, yes I can.” Rude as all hell and certainly Joe is intentionally mixing in some classic misogyny, but a whole hell of a lotta peoples’ reaction to Sarah’s comment here would be to say “wanna bet?”
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good job breaking her, Joe
(to be fair, those WAS fightin’ woids)
Yo Joe! Knowing is half the battle.
Who doesn’t love a good challenge?
Hopefully now that we’ve seen happy!Sarah once, she may make a return again sometime in the future…after not-so-much time, next time. xD
Damn it, Joe.
Oh, come on, she practically dared him.
She triple dogged dared him with that line.
That’s why she looks the maddest in the last panel. Joe’s admission means that it was just not a random clueless dudebro thing to say but that she brought it upon herself. A horndog being casually misogynist would normally barely make a blip on Sarah’s cynical weariness. Being outsmarted by the said horndog is a whole different thing.
Well I guess this means Joyce won the comic contest!…Or she and Becky came up with a really funny strip that will win her the comic contest! The rules of happiness vampirism are absolute!
I was just thinking that.
Well, no, mine was dirtier than that. But the same basic idea.
Do tell.
At a guess, right after Becky wandered off, Dorothy kissed Joyce and declared her eternal love.
…you know, I never thought about it, but if Dorothy and Joyce did get together, that’d be a huge stick in Becky’s craw.
I mean I wouldn’t exactly call kissing “dirty.”
I would, the human mouth is disgusting.
Millions of bacteria would disagree.
when will this anti-bacteria bigotry end
Good thing it won’t happen in this universe. Even if I personally think Joyce has had a enough bi moments that I could see her going gay for Dorothy, the future president has said before she’s extremely straight.
…which is a thing 19-year-olds famously never find out they had been wrong about =P
Joyce has had bi moments?
Less “Joyce just won the contest” and more “Joyce just had her first orgasm”.
Which would probably be rather embarrassing just sitting in the chair next to Dorothy.
Oh no my hubris!
Joe should know by now that there are just some things that you don;t say to certain people… EVER.
He took a gender studies class, and he’s using his knowledge for evil.
Don’t you mean Sarah should know…? 😀
*insert “why not both” gif here* 😉
60 to 0 real quick. Parting is such sweet sorrow
Then again, Joe just said what all of us were thinking, so what does that make us?
Better than Joe?
I mean, don’t most people generally look more attractive when they look happy? The comment isn’t problematic for being false, it’s problematic because on its face what you’re telling the person is that you don’t really care why they’re not smiling and just want them to smile.
It also suggests that the speaker does not consider the person’s happiness to be a goal in itself, but only as a means to the end of supplying prettiness to the consumers thereof.
I was just thinking that. “You look prettier when you’re happy” is much nicer than “you’re prettier when you smile”. It also implies that the speaker is intimate enough with the other person to recognise a genuine smile.
In this case, Joe considered ending the person’s happiness a goal in itself. Because challenge.
Yeah this is the kind of thing you acknowledge like “you’re in a good mood today”, not “you should smile more because it makes you prettier”.
Is Joe incapable of giving a complement that isn’t backhanded, even if his intentions are good? Remember when he said he liked Joyce’s glasses and that they made her “look smart” (thereby implying she didn’t look smart before)?
I mean, this time he was trying to be an ass so I don’t think it should be taken into consideration
Joe hasn’t struck me as the sort to neg people. This game with Sarah was just that, a (kind of) stated challenge. But Joe’s usual attempts at seducing women seem to have been very direct. He does have a kind of “damn it Danny” thing going on though, so maybe theres more there that I’m just not remembering today.
Im imaging the sound of a tower of Jenga blocks falling over in Panel 3
I’m mad at how perfect this sound cue is.
I mean, that sentence by itself is a challenge to her to kill you, Joe.
Pull a Temple of Doom on him, Sarah
KALI-MAA!
Ruth sneaks off with the femurs while Sarah’s distracted with the heart.
To be fair, MOST things Joe does or says is a challenge for someone to kill him.
Joe is new mike
At this point who ISN’T New Mike?
…Do you think this is a big publicity stunt and Willis intends to introduce Mike Classic in a couple years?
…see, when you said Mike “Classic” I’m assuming you meant theDumbiverse Mike, but I initially thought you meant the original Walkyverse Mike. Which would be wildly implausible for a college comic considering he would have to be at least 40 or so by now— hell, he was already visibly graying at the temples by the time Shortpacked! ended.
Mike crashes into the universe via a locker like the webcomic-hopping strangle robot from Starslip Crisis.
Alternately: Just the webcomic-hopping strangle robot from Starslip Crisis.
Nonsense. Mike will just show up again one day and there will never be any explanation.
It is my headcanon now that Mike just works at Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs).
No, no, he works at McAwesome’s Sushi, but no one will ever recognize him there, because he’s always drunk, and consequently smiling and friendly.
… web-hopping …
You mean that thing could show up here?
The Dumbiverse is where Mike went between his death in It’s Walky and his resurrection in Shortpacked!.
OG Walkyverse included at least one instance of universe-hopping that I recall, technically it’s possible.
Without spoiling anything, dimension-hopping was a major part of a mid-Shortpacked! arc, and was featured in the April Fool’s Day update a couple years ago.
And there was the crossover with Fans! that involved dimension hopping.
Well, that does sound like something Mike would do…
You see there is going to be a bunch of new Mikes. A young Mike clone, a black Mike, a Mike Energy being and a evil half cyborg Mike.
I heard they’re going to be all imposters and the real Mike will show up with a hip 90s haircut.
Nice SP callback.
A Mike Clone? Is that anything like a Cy Clone? That would definitely be a huge twist(er)! xD
Old Mike isn’t New Mike. He tried out for the part, but instead of breaking a leg he just fell flat.
At the beginning of the school year Mike punched Joe in the face. Obviously what’s happened now is the energy signature from those punches attracted Mike’s energy after his life force has been entirely spent
Almost every character seems to be competing to be the new Mike at this point.
I’m sorry, but are trying to say happiness makes a person stupid her, Willis? Because Sarah is more intelligent than that. And even being in an…unusual for her…emotional state, shouldn’t have kept from seeing that possibility a mile away.
Have you never said anything dumb because you were feeling good and not thinking things through? Like, I WISH it seemed improbable to me lmao
Yes, but there is a limit. I have never challenged that water is wet for instance (liquid state for the pendactics).
Euphoria often leads to overconfidence
Even the self-aware humor thing isn’t funny here, Joe is just being a total asshole here and I hope he pays for it.
Hey you?? I didn’t know you read this comic!
Been reading for almost 9 years at this point, yeah. Nice to see you too.
Which comment section did you two meet in and is the comic worth a look?
We met on discord a long while back.
I mean he’s got like five seconds tops before Sarah brutally murders him
Nah, her baseball bat isn’t handy.
Hammerspace.
What, nah it was funny
if there is one lesson i have learnt from being an extremely funny person that most people most of the time stare at in embarrassement as i laugh uncontrollably at my own jokes, it’s that most people don’t have the faintest sense of humour, poor them.
…that was a joke, it was hilarious, you’re welcome *bows*
When the more you know about someone, the more you want to know them.
omg are you flirting with me?!!!
or is this some sort of ridiculous misunderstanding hahaha
i am so flustered rn
also i may have exaggerated for retorical effect. i do occasionally succeed at making (other) people laugh. and i do usually retain some measure of control over my reactions at my own dazzling wit (now i feel like i have to be honest on the internet, look what you’ve done)
ARE YOU ASKING FOR A CHALLEEEEEEENGE???
Challenge and fighting and
Fighting the challenge tonight.
Everybody’s fighting for the
Challenge of the fighting and the
Challenge and fighting and
Fighting the challenge tonight.
To quote Nale: “Well, now, really, what did you expect after a line like that?”
You just rocketed me back to, like, 2007, holy shit I haven’t thought about that comic in so long.
It’s in its final story arc!
And tantalising with glacial slowness.
You should get back into it! I find it has developed into something very similar to Dumbing of Age: long-running plots, well-motivated interesting characters, and the creator has grown A LOT in his portrayal of different groups. My absolute favorite.
Credit to Joe, he at least admitted he knew it was misogynistic thing to say but did it to troll her. So at least he recognizes the issue
Sorry if it doubles to octuple posts, my browser went funky all of a sudden
It looks all right from my end
Which only made Sarah angrier!
*plays Steely Dan’s “Dirty Work” on the Muzak*
Not “Love in an Elevator” ?
I’m not big on Aerosmith’s later stuff, I admit.
Joe chose violence.
to be fair, who could resist an opening like that
Anyone who values life, limb, and dental integrity?
Eeeh who needs femurs?
Not much of a dentist, are ya?
Reasonable grasp of limb anatomy, though.
I feel like someone with a reasonable grasp of limb anatomy would know the answer to that question.
If I had a reasonable grasp of your limb anatomy, I’d be running away with it, not jawing off.
Comment/grav synergy is a glorious thing.
And if your dentist needs your jaw off to work on your teeth, they aren’t a dentist and you *are* in a saw film.
Worth it
Though i did almost get decked in the face bc a dude effectively challenged me to slap him and wasn’t happy when I did
Joe: I had to save Joyce from her misery.
*Meanwhile*
Joyce: I am now following non-theistic religion! Have you heard of mindfulness?
To be fair, while some variations of mindfullness are wrapped up with historical religious sects, MBSR (mindfulness based stress reduction) is a science based theraputic meditation that does not contain any religion.
#donethecourse #amaskeptic
I mean it sucks that people have ruined that cuz in this context that’s actually kinda astute. She’s kinda glowing.
I mean, Joe could’ve just as easily said “It’s nice to see you smile.” or some such.
At least that way the misogyny would’ve only been implied.
Which he did, in his original comment. By the time he mentioned prettiness he was trying to be offensive to show how offensive he could be.
I laughed. It’s probably bad to do so but I laughed.
I mean. Willis wrote it because he intended it to be funny.
Dead Joe Walking. Seriously. Sarah, make him eat one of his shoes for that.
God Himself could not sink this
shipmood!Please don’t equate Joe with God.
This can only lead to hate sex.
I believe you mean that they will pound each other in the most epic of hatefucks?
Sarah deserves some good dick
Meanwhile, Joyce pratfalled her way into her first orgasm. Joe would be so proud, but he will never know that he was responsible.
I have felt similarly challenged by people, and similarly made attempts to prove them wrong.
rip joe, we hardly knew ye
rip joe, you were a good lay, or so you would certainly want people to say at your funeral
Normally I don’t side with Joe on just about anything… but yeah Sarah did basically ask for that one.
I too, feel like she just presented a challenge.
I mean, he’s not wrong. Sarah smiling and being openly happy does make her seem a lot more approachable.
Which Sarah doesn’t like.
So . . . thanks Joe, now prepare to die?
Just because it’s true doesn’t mean it should be said.
goddammit joe…..
goddammit joe
goddammit joe.
God Damn It! Joe!
Honestly one solid punch to the stomach and the regular Sarah leaving seems like a good enough response to this one.
I endorse this message.
Aren’t they in an elevator?
good… it was getting a little chummy around here
When people get too chummy with me, I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I don’t really care about them.
“New person, who dis?”
ugh, people, right?! wanting to be your pals or some creepy nonsense? weirdos.
I’m terrible at matching faces to names, so I stick to pronouns or “hey you” as much as possible because I KNOW I’ll do that accidentally.
Me too. When I moved I got a new (to me) idea. Now when I meet people I text msg myself their name and the context of where I met them. I’ve found scrolling my msg history helps me associate the names much better.
(I can remember the faces but often all the associated data goes under a different file number, folder, nomenclature, with a different set of standards in an alternate dimension. If something in the data is referenced I can remember the person and their name (sometimes) but the the face image pointer is a bad reference from an MS-DOS partition to an experimental mac-OS hard-drive across the eighth dimension.
That’s exactly it! The “Names” and “Faces” tables don’t automatically cross-reference. I remember both, but not necessarily which ones go together.
Sometimes it’s true tho.
I love how Joe is learning that sometimes less is more – why lay on the misogyny thick when only a little bit can get you this response?
I normally watch on in amusement as various other commenters play Gravatar roulette, content that I don’t feel the need to change my own.
I am not watching in amusement rn.
So turns the wheel and we now watch in amusement your malcontent. Delicious.
Thing is, Joe, it actually wasn’t a challenge and it was perfectly possible for you to just make small talk.
Oooops
Kinda was though
Of course it was possible for Joe to take the high road here, but that wasn’t gonna happen
Sarah and Joe’s entire “relationship” is founded on animosity, so… why would he do that? They don’t, you know, like each other.
The short lived peace in panel two was lovely to see this morning. But goddammit Joe.
good job Joe. some people need and deserve to be triggered for their petty obsessions and need to have their faces rubbed in their own hypersensitivity.
Too bad she’s going to kill you now.
Why would Sarah qualify for deserving to have this happen?
weird vibe bro. i hope that was some sort of dark humour
I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm
With this particular commenter? I’m not so sure.
Oh they have a history of being an ass? Yikes
While I accept the truth that Joe’s comment was out of line, I will point out that Sarah believed her happiness was the result of other people being unhappy, and was therefore reveling in other people’s misery.
In other words, nobody is right; everyone sucks.
I guess
Sarah finally renounces magical thinking and embraces empirical evidence.
“I’m unusually joyous today while my friend and roommate is miserable. I believe there’s causation, and people are getting mad at me about it. AITA?”
“YTA You don’t have to rub it in.”
“NTA Just because you’re having a good day that doesn’t mean their bad day is your fault.”
“ESH They shouldn’t be mad at you for having a good day, but you’re not some kind of magical happiness vampire either.”
“NTA Just sever and tell them to go get therapy, OP.”
“INFO Do they take your happiness away all the time? Have you considered counseling?”
Sarah is actually just in a good mood and pretending it’s some cosmic event because she’s built her entire identity around being a grumpy piss goblin and acknowledging that she can be anything else than that and be emotionally available to people means letting them know things about you.
Sarah hugged Joyce one time because she wanted to let her know that nothing will ever be the same and that’s a good thing, because the way things were sucked and they can be made better, then immediately afterwards Becky and Dina ran into the room, made it a group hug, and Dina started smiling like a little shit because Sarah was proven wrong. That’s one of the few times Sarah put herself out there for someone and she got laughed at for it.
Time for the nutcracker, Sarah.
Badass girls quoting Tchaikovsky:
Carla: 1812 Overture.
Sarah: Nutcracker Suite.
Kill him.
I never tire of overly-grumpy cartoon faces. Panel five Sarah is a pretty dang good one
Oh, fuck OFF, Joe
What the FUCK Joe?! NOT COOL >:-<
I don’t understand how that compliment was misogynist.
I understand that breaking people down to “being pretty” and nothing else is wrong, but surely that doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate someone’s beauty at all?
There’s a thing where some men will tell women “you’d be prettier if you smiled”. It’s such a thing that I didn’t have to type the whole thing, it autocompleted after ‘r’.
‘It autocompleted’ being the browser search bar.
Yeah that’s true, but in this case he’s just noting how she looks since it’s new and complimenting it. It’s honestly one of the least misogynistic things he’s said.
Two things:
1) Using a misognystic stock phrase in a different context doesn’t actually stop it being a misogynistic stock phrase. Intent, as they say, isn’t magic.
2) If there is a context in which it’s not misogynistic to use a misogynistic stock phrase, “Intentionally trying to upset a woman by using a misogynistic stock phrase” ain’t it.
@Kaz: come on, surely you can see (as he immediately admits) that he was being intentionally douchy to Sarah.
The fact that the sentence is a misogynistic stock phrase is part of the douchiness. It makes it a low blow.
behind that compliment there is this extensive history of men thinking women purpose in their world is to decorate it or make it prettier so they can be more confortable, specially without thinking that other people are entitled to not smile if they don’t feel like it, if they are having a bad day or anything. It has happened so much even to when we are having a wonderful day it can be really infurating for a random dude to think our happiness is about them and not about us. that is why.
Username checks out
Interrupting people’s lives to tell them to fix their face to match your idea of how they should look is not okay.
Jo, that was mean.
Though I understand you felt it was a challenge.
Many people are prettier when they smile. Neil Patrick Harris, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Avery Brooks immediately spring to mind.
Ryan Gosling. One of only two dudes on my celebrity fantasy list. Of course he’s also pretty before he smiles. The delight being that he’s on the list for his personality and character.
Smiles are nice but “you’re prettier when you smile” basically means “whatever you’re feeling at the moment what matters is that you are physically attractive.”
It can be sincerely meant as a compliment but that’s a bug, not a feature.
of course this being Sarah, while most people might take it as a clumsy sort of compliment she hates the idea of people (esp. Joe) finding her appealing.
which is an added reason why the comment just instantly destroys her mood xD
He’s not wrong, Sarah does look better when she’s smiling. But I’d argue that most people probably look better when they smile, unless their normal smile is like the Joker’s or something similarly creepy like this.
So, the problem with your example there, is that that is a fantastic smile. I mean, damn. Dudes aren’t my thing normally, but mmmm…. that page can make me wonder if I should reconsider things.
For context, you need to read the previous strip as well.
I love dark and depressing Punk women (like my wife) but would hesitate to tell them to frown. 🙂
That was a challenge, Joe, and you failed.
He chose…….. poorly
Challenged accepted!
On one hand, you called for it, Sarah… on the other, … Joe, just shut up please
This was way too easy. The real challenge start now trying to make her smile again.
Isn’t just about everyone prettier when they smile?
[glances at Alucard] I think it depends on the beholder…
Yeah, I think so. Mostly because seeing other people being happy is nice.
They are. But they don’t owe us prettiness.
When some isn’t smiling because they aren’t happy, the reduction of prettiness is not they problem. Telling them to cheer up or dissimulate so that they become prettier ornaments in our environment is selfish and objectifying.
On this month of Dumbing of Age: Misanthropes having Close Joe Encounters
In which Joe, once again, passes the Are You a Douchebag Test with flying colors.
Is getting a positive result on a test for something negative ‘passing’ it? Like if someone said they’d passed a tox screen, I’d assume they were clear, not that they had something in their system. Or are you meaning that Joe is demonstrating that he’s not actually a douchebag because he knows what he said was wrong but he thought that Sarah was actually asking for it and he also knows what is culturally loaded into the complement he gave her?
This is misogynistic ? Why ? :O
The idea that women’s appearance is a perpetually relevant topic has a lot of baggage. “You’re prettier when you smile” is a total cliché, as drs pointed out above.
Women being called pretty when they want to look pretty and sollicit that sort of feedback is fine, but commenting on a women’s appearance out of nowhere, especially coming from a man thus often implying unprovoked heterosexual objectification, is condescending and gross. It’s a double standard that stems from men not willing to take women seriously as subjects and reassigning them to a status as sexual objects at every turn.
Also, context. This could be an innocuous and (maybe??) sweet thing to say in a different situation, but given Sarah and Joe’s personalities and relationship, yeah, it’s misogynistic.
Also, “pretty” is one of those gendered words the male counterpart of which (“handsome” i guess?) carries very different connotations.
It’s become somewhat of a cliche for people to tell women who aren’t smiling that they would be prettier if they smiled, as if that was the only concern about their lack of a smile. It’s become common enough that most women are sick of it.
I guess a similar thing would be disabled people and those questions that are asked all the time, enough that even if they are fairly innocuous on their own get to the point where you would get snapped at for asking.
Also, because you wouldn’t say a man looks prettier when he smiles.
I mean, you might for *some* men. But there are others where you would absolutely not.
However, just about every woman is subject to it. The only exceptions I’ve personally met are women who always smile in public… with public being defined as “anyone who might possibly at some point think to make that statement.”
… just to be clear, my mother’s mother was told she’d look prettier if she smiled.
I’ve seen her smile. She had the kind of smile that would terrify young children, and give them nightmares for at least 40 years. I say, because I had at least one of those nightmares last year, and I saw her smile 41 years ago. (It was only the once. For that, I consider myself lucky.)
To be clear, I did say to her that her smile was frightening. To the best of my ability, I attempted to not let her know. But I’m pretty sure she knew, even before she made the attempt to smile. I mean, she’d just got done telling my mother that she had the kind of smile that would scare young children.
sorry about your nightmare (and you’re grandmother’s smile, i guess??)
i think it’s also often the case that “you look prettier when you smile” doesn’t mean so much “wow it fills me with joy to see your beautiful smile” as, “please stop having opinions and getting legitimately upset about me being a sexist jerk, i much prefer it when you act all mild and conciliatory because then it’s much easier for me to ignore your criticism”.
Yeah, it’s not a ‘wow, you have a nice smile’ sort of comment, it’s more like ‘your attractiveness to me is the only thing that matters.’
My pet peeve is the conflation of “sexist” and “misogynistic”. There’s a difference.
Joe’s comment was sexist, not misogynistic.
Generally, it’s tied to the idea that women have to be happy all the time while men are socially allowed to be pissed off.
Oh, I see… Well it’s true that in the few instances I saw it used, it didn’t exactly feel… let’s just say it didn’t feel genuine, I see what you all mean.
Also, thanks a lot for the story about your grandmother, Some Ed, and sorry about your nightmares ^_^’
Sarah got that joy from Joyce’s anger/misery.
Smiles don’t make everyone look nicer. And BTW, Nancy is a great comic too. https://www.gocomics.com/nancy/2021/03/24
but in this case, she DID look nicer, in the sense of “she looks like a nice person” instead when she frowns. so joe was indeed correct.
Wait, Nancy is still around? How? I mean, that girl looks as young as she was when my mom was a kid. At least, according to the Wikipedia page, which has a reference photo from way back then.
Yeah, I know about comic time, but that seems pretty ridiculous.
It got a new artist and a continuity reboot a couple years ago. It’s actually good now, not sappy saccharine sweet like it did under the last artist’s tenure. If you read Nancy Classics (reprints of the old Ernie Bushmiller strips of the 50s and 60s), it has a similar “troublemaking youth” tone.
(As for characters aging, I think Nancy was always a floating “it happens now” timeline, like DoA.)
Sluggo is lit.
I mean this with all sincerity, but you have to read Nancy by Olivia James.
Sarah, you really only have yourself to blame. Do not issue challenges to bored college students. Even casually.
At least Joe is aware that he is being a total asshat, so, kudos? Maybe he did learn something from that Gender Studies Class.
Joe is aware that he’s being an ass, but does he realize that the specific way he’s being an ass + his rationale (“I feel like you challenged me”) is pretty classic toxic masculinity?
Please elaborate. It’s pretty human nature that some people feel extremely compelled to answer when you tell someone “I don’t think you can do x” and the obvious answer is, “yes, yes I can.” Rude as all hell and certainly Joe is intentionally mixing in some classic misogyny, but a whole hell of a lotta peoples’ reaction to Sarah’s comment here would be to say “wanna bet?”
Well that was surprisingly easy
Most people are more attractive when they smile. Does anyone tell a man that?
“They should. Superman should smile more. He hasn’t been lately and it’s making him very unattractive.” – My Wife
Joe, you can tease someone like this if they’re your friend.
Sarah is not your friend.
Sarah HATES you.
Is it still considered misogynist if he says it to both men and women equally?