I mean, I’ve been lucky enough to mostly avoid my exes through nearly complete escape velocity from my prior social circles each time, so idgi
like, I’ll be civil-ish *IF* I have to run into one (though mostly I haven’t), but going back to any of them? nah, we failed for a reason
(that said, I’ve had nightmares where my husband and I broke up, and those were distressing bc I didn’t know or understand why… and luckily those were nightmares, bc there WASN’T a reason)
This is so true, whenever I feel bad about leaving a bad situation I think of the couple of weeks that preceded me leaving and hit the evacuation button *rocket takes off*
Kind of getting some Joe-ish vibes from Becky here and that’s not a good thing. Still I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for now. But a gay Joe is still a Joe. Please don’t be a Joe, Becky!
She and Joe get along because they started as polar opposites but have been trying to change ever since, and they recognize that in each other now that they’re approaching a middle.
Becky, on the other hand, has *stopped* trying to change herself because she’s finally accepted as who she is and doesn’t face reprimand for wearing her heart on her sleeve (and in her hair).
No… RPS (Real Person Shipping) is still super creepy. Please keep your shipping to fictional characters ESPECIALLY if the real people involved aren’t into it.
Why is RPS creepy? I’m not trying to be obtuse here, I just… I don’t get what’s wrong with thinking two (or more) people would be a good match together?
I don’t think that real person shipping is creepy unless you say it out loud. But particularly you don’t say it to them except in the context of a strong friendship where allowances are made.
That said, being annoying isn’t a crime and doesn’t make necessarily someone evil. There are people I like a lot that can be as annoying as hell, but they are worth it.
I don’t think she’s being horny either. Joe has a more negative motivation and history applied to his actions which is why I’m Becky more slack here. But this is almost exactly something Joe did. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/continue/
It’s just something I remembered. But honestly I criticize but they all are still teenagers so it’s almost natural they’ll be a little immature about these things.
Yeah, I think Becky is coming from the point of view that they are a cute couple and the arguing is a form of flirting and they should just cut to the chase. Joe is coming at it from the point of view of they should do it because he thinks it would be hot and he would get off to it.
The two may sound somewhat the same, but they are really quite distinct.
Yeah, I did that once, going back to an ex. Definitely not a smart move I could ever recommend. Also watching some of the drama around some of my family who have done that.
Yeah. Becky has no idea, because she hasn’t gone through it.
Every thread is a gravroulette thread if you don’t call attention to it.
The thing is I keep forgetting to spin. At this point I know I’m still missing Sal and Doc Biology there, but I’ve got 17 of them recorded.
I don’t know if it’s as simple as him just being a huge scumbag, although it’d probably be easier if it was. He’s definitely got *way* more baggage than Ruth ever did.
He was a shithead kid, but I think we need to see more of him to know if he’s still the thing he was before.
So far we’ve seen him:
– Smoke
– Get punched by Walky
– Reconcile with Sal
– Pull the fire alarm for Blaine*
– Have Blaine whacked by a dirty cop
– Ride a 4-cylinder 80s sport cruiser (Yamaha Maxim or Honda CB900)
Arguably the worst thing we’ve seen him do in the present was pull the fire alarm (which set the basement kidnapping plot into motion). Blaine had to threaten him into doing it, so that was under duress. Evidently he still has mob connections, because he was able to call that hit on Blaine. Is he the Korean mafia’s Michael Corleone? Is the “new leaf” mindset just a performative act? We don’t know yet, but I think there’s plenty of story to mine from an Asher redemption arc.
I believe she’s officially a junior, but that she still wasn’t an RA last year. I’d thought she was, based on her early reputation, but that got contradicted at some point.
Ruth is the one who should be avoiding Billie/Jennifer instead of the other way around, Becky might not realize that it’s best to not get them together again because of Billie/Jennifer’s actions
I hate how awful Billie is being to Ruth as well, I don’t know what happened between then during the jump, but they Went Through Shit together and both denying attraction to Ruth or, it sounds like, to /any/ girl, is frankly horrible and shows Billie has not grown at all.
the “both” was meant to refer to the attraction, as well as the suggestion that Ruth is now subhuman and not deserving of basic respect, much less respect derived from a shared trauma they are both trying to get past now.
Billie doesn’t believe bisexuality is a thing; she all but said so early on in the comic, and that mindset’s coming back again now. About the closest she got to acknowledging it was when she said “A date with a girl. Huh.” to herself while getting dressed up for that fancy restaurant date with Ruth.
She brushes off her sapphic relationships with Alice and Ruth as an “experimental phase” that “everyone goes through”.
Most people should not go back to exes. You should only really consider trying again if like, the only reason you broke up was it was the wrong time and you reconnect 10 years later or if all the reasons you broke up are gone, resolved and buried, which they usually are not so they drive you away from them a second time.
there’s also the issue that we don’t entirely know exactly what caused the breakup… So remember that someone like Asher or an outside influence could be forcibly driving a wedge into the scenario.
She’s bisexual and doesn’t really acknowledge her attraction to women as legitimate (including saying once that she was pretty sure EVERYONE thought about kissing people of the same gender sometimes.) As seen, among other things, with the fact that she thought fooling around with Alice on more than one occasion and then hooking up with football players wasn’t anything serious, whereas ALICE appears to have thought it was at least relationship-adjacent. As Ruth said when Howard visited after their relationship went public, American sex ed did Jennifer no favors – she still doesn’t seem 100% aware bisexuality is a genuine thing.
But also, once again let me point to how this has been a pattern of behavior with Jennifer – screw up badly, try to reinvent self, ignore people who don’t fit into new version of self (though in this case that means Walky and Sal rather than Ruth, we still don’t know what prompted that breakup but regardless she’s allowed a clean break,) along with downplaying a previous relationship. Much as I’d like Jennifer to be in a consistently healthier place, this looks like she’s back in the pattern and that she still hasn’t addressed at least one big underlying issue. (Her desire to be a ‘normal’, popular girl type, which her attraction to women undercuts unless it’s just a thing EVERYONE thinks about and doesn’t talk about. Which it obviously is. Because she is normal. A phrasing she has actually used at least once in this context, IIRC.) Would not be shocked if she’s still got some unaddressed depression and tried to declare all of it SOLELY the alcoholism and then codependency with a suicidally depressed person, she’s fine now, she’s cured, everything is fine! (Am however hoping she is still sober. I’d like her to have genuinely improved! I am also pretty pessimistic of her chances at present.)
I’m pretty sure she isn’t. In this strip, she tells Walky, “I got therapy.”
The past tense there makes me think that no, she’s not still going, and she’s convinced herself that she’s all better and doesn’t need it anymore. And it is going to kick her ass, because no way in hell is three months of therapy enough to deal with all of her issues.
Jennifer Billingsworth, Queen of Good Decisions, everybody.
Which would make sense, because if I remember old interactions with the Walkertons, they seem to be of that annoying culture that sees therapy as something “bad” or “broken” people do that “normal” people do not and I would guess the Billingsworths would be similar in that outlook.
As such, Jennifer seeing it as “well of course I did it when I was in my bad phase, but now I’m normal and fixed now so there’s no need to keep it up because I’m not in that bad phase anymore”.
Speaking of the Billingsworths, I’m kinda hoping we actually get to see Jennifer’s parents at some point, even if it’s only in flashback, as part of her overall arc here. We know very little about them, and while having them around too much could create continuity hiccups with all the stuff about them being neglectful, what little interactions they’ve actually had with their daughter must have screwed her up in some way. I’d “love” some expansion on the time Mr. Billingsworth kicked an entire city’s homeless population out.
On the subject of the Billingsworth parents – yeah, I want to see them in the flesh. Or over winter break. Flashback as well but if they’re active parts of the story, then they can share a strip with Joyce, and she can punch Dadingsworth in the face if need be.
My experience with those who bail on therapy, is that they finally start to look in the mirror, don’t like the picture and “nope” the fuck out. Though to be fair, I’m still trying to remove the feces and phlegm from my own self image, so I can understand people not liking to see their true selves.
Given that Jennifer is undeniably intelligent (as long as she’s not being incredibly stupid but I shouldn’t throw stones) it’s hard to imagine a run-of-the-mill therapist manages to get her brain shut up long enough for her to actually figure out what she feels and wants.
So it probably wasn’t a very rewarding experience and she jumped ship as soon as they let her.
Everyone keeps mentioning Billie and Alice being a thing and I can’t fit the life of me remember when that came up. Would you be able to point me to the story?
Yeah, that’s a bit alarming. She was doing okay other than being a bit antagonistic right up until that… Because yeah, she’s absolutely right that fighting and flirting aren’t the same thing, and it’s important to know the difference. But this does make me worry that the growth she’s had has come at the cost of throwing her bisexuality under the bus.
I’m hoping that Billie is saying RUTH is a phase rather than her bisexuality because I like the fact she’s openly bi as there’s way too much erasure in fiction. Becky was engaged in it early on if people remember.
If I recall, this has been an issue for her. She’s had internalized biphobia/bi-erasure (insisted several times bisexuality isn’t a “real thing”) so this is pretty in-character for her.
Looks like her “I’m in therapy and happy and healthy now” front may not be entirely accurate since she’s still having trouble accepting that she’s bi. I get the impression she’s still very focused on portraying the “Jennifer” she thinks she should be rather than accepting herself for who she is.
And the fact that her “healthy straight relationship” is with Asher of all people, someone we know to have a questionable character, furthers my belief this is all a front and she’s not “all better now.”
Counterpoint: in real life, too. If someone puts a bullet through Kissinger’s skull, I’m hiding them from the authorities and showering them with lavush praise.
Well, I mean yes, that was the outcome for that situation, but he’s still embedded in deep with a Korean crime syndicate (I can’t remember if it was called the Korean Mafia or something else), so… yeah.
IIRC, Asher is actively trying to get out from that life, though he is trying to do so in a sneaky way that if exposed to his criminal family members (as Blaine threatened to do in order to secure Asher’s cooperation in the kidnapping) could result in really bad things for him. So that once again in a gray area, as he was born into that life rather than choosing it and has since decided he wants out.
Hm. I wonder is ‘Ash’er being in all sorts of moral gray areas is deliberate.
That massively changes my image of Asher as I thought he was choosing (and choosing to stay in) that organization deliberately. Someone born into (or had joined previously) but actively trying to figure out their way out is a very different situation.
He claimed to Sal he was trying to get out, but clearly contacted at least one active mobster when blackmailed to deal with Blaine (whether that was Lester going off who he already knows is in the mob or going to Gramps who revealed he knows full well about Asher’s little rebellion, but a college education will serve him well.) Alternately, Lester contacted him when it was going down to reveal the same message from Gramps as in parentheses. Since we don’t have that information, we can’t really extrapolate too much about his current state – I tend to think he was sincere in wanting out since he DID steal a ton of money from Gramps, but I could see both ‘well, if they’re going to track me down, may as well use my contacts/embrace this’ or feeling trapped and realizing he’d never escaped as far as he’d like. (Alternately: He stole the money, but not for college – Gramps thinks he’s still playing the Obedient Asset and doesn’t know Asher robbed him for something completely off-base.)
What we know for sure about Asher’s mob ties are that his grandfather’s in a major role (‘my Gramps OWNS you,’) that he did genuinely steal money from Gramps (because Blaine could use it to blackmail him,) and that he was involved enough to know Blaine on sight, and vice versa. That leaves a lot of room in his potential motivations and dealings with the kidnapping. I’d like him to be trying to get out, but regardless, he’s embroiled in it more than I think any of the other cast would want to be.
@ Clif – Blaine told Asher his grandfather still wasn’t very happy about Asher not being in the family business anymore. Whatever else Asher’s said, him trying to leave was legit. That said, since he was notified, if not involved, about Blaine’s death, and Grandpa must have noticed he can somehow pay for university without him, it might only be a matter of time before he discovers how much money is gone and figures out what must have happened (if, indeed, he hasn’t already and offered to take care of Blaine if he came back).
It’s probably a little late to get in on this but my problem with Asher isn’t even necessarily his vague criminal ties. That is a problem but the main character trait that I distrust about him is that he is very selfish. Specifically that in any situation where he has to choose between saving himself or someone he supposedly cares about he’ll choose himself. He’s done it twice so far. Once with Sal, snitching her out to the cops for the gas station robbery which by his own admission was not with good intentions but only for his own amusement and safety. And then again when he created the opening for the kidnapping because Blaine blackmailed him.
Asher may even be an okay guy all things considered. People like Mary are probably worse to be around than him, but when push comes to shove Asher has proven he’ll choose himself every time. That’s not someone I’d want to be in a committed relationship with. Maybe he’d be good for some fun but not a steady thing and Jennifer could discover that at the worst possible time. Things are fun right now but heavy drama always finds it’s way back to DoA.
Also didn’t Asher assist with the kidnapping or provide info to help with it? I don’t remember the specifics. And we do know he threw Sal under the bus when they were teens, contributing to her arrest. He does not strike me as an admirable and heroic guy.
The Jennifer she thinks she should be and not the one she actually is is the PERFECT descriptor of what she does, thank you! And yeah, I do think she’s doing better than she was at the suicide pact nadir, but Asher’s a cue to us if nothing else that this isn’t a genuine, stable state. I think she’s genuinely improved in some respects, or at least I hope so, but there’s others she seems to be burying to keep up appearances. That probably won’t last any longer this time than it did last time.
That said, I don’t think Jennifer has any idea about all of Asher’s trouble. I could see her knowing the same story he told Sal – and I do think that was a sincere story, since Blaine did blackmail him with it – but by now he knows he hasn’t escaped entirely, whether he wants to or not. No way he’s told anyone that he was at best a go-between so the mob could clean up a misbehaving stooge, at worst arranged it himself. (I’m pretty sure that one’s a step too far for Jennifer. I can easily buy ‘our families were awful but that’s DONE now, we can both be nice normal college students,’ but if he’s still embroiled then that’s another set of mental calculus. If he is genuinely trying to get out, I feel bad for Asher. I kind of hope so. I’d like the kid not to go full supervillain.)
Billie has denied being anything but straight more than once and has never been openly bi. She’s been in denial for a long time. There’s also no reason to emphasize ‘boyfriend’ unless she’s calling liking girls a phase.
I’m not liking the “weird phase” talk or the emphasis on “boyfriend” immediately preceding it. While it’s good that she acknowledges her dynamic with Ruth wasn’t always healthy, I really hope she’s not forcing herself back into the closet because of that.
I generally think of Ruth as abusive and gaslighting her relationships. She was in a VERY bad place but I will never think of her as the better of the two.
She had a boyfriend back in Canada before being forced to move, and I believe Willis explicitly confirmed that she’s bi somewhere. She’s no more a lesbian than Jennifer is straight.
Back for one of the bi awareness days before Danny realized, Willis ran a picture during the Roomies reruns of Ruth, Billie*, and Danny together in one picture (as she married Danny in that universe, and had still had a mutually self-destructive Thing with Ruth.) Once Danny had his realization, Willis pointed out that all three characters in said picture were bisexual and he’d known all along. (Walkyverse Ruth was already known onscreen to be bisexual, having had said mutually self-destructive thing with Billie and a Tragic Backstory involving a Shitty Dude who dumped her after having sex – that universe’s Ryan, who is not to our knowledge a rapist so manages to somehow be the better version.)
* Who exclusively went by Billie in the Walkyverse, so I’m still using it for that counterpart. Seriously, this book is the first time she has EVER used Jennifer as her primary name since she and Walky come up with nicknames for each other. It is so weird to adjust with that. Like I’m doing it, but it is an adjustment.
Danny was doing better for a while, but I guess he kinda shit the bed with the Ethan thing, and we’ve barely seen him post-timeskip to know where he is on the Danny scale now.
Pretty sure Sierra’s bi, let’s just call her best bisexual and be done with it.
I’m hoping that’s not what she’s doing, but it worries me since she previously has thought bisexuality doesn’t exist despite being clearly bisexual herself.
Also, she seems to be thinking her relationship with Ruth was unhealthy, but for the wrong reasons. It doesn’t look at this point like Ms. Billingsworth has grown at all.
she has a point, she has heard about what happened before and witnessed a bit of it: Billie/Jennifer is acting the same as she was before, I don’t actually see a change in her except in how she is starting to see that Ruth moved on
I can do without the snotty act for a while, this might redeem her
For me, the takeaway here is that Becky being annoying is a character trait and not just limited to her passive-aggressive, one sided rivalry with Dorothy. (I’m beginning to think that the sh*t is really going to hit the fan one Becky finds out that Joyce now identifies as atheist–although I really can’t see Joyce going any further than being agnostic.)
Agnosticism is orthogonal to the faith vs atheism axis. Agnosticism just stipulates that God’s existence is un-knowable (in the factual/evidence based sense). There are both faithless and faithfull agnostics. Now, agnosticism is often used as a marker of a boundary between faith and faithless, probably because that’s where the distinction is most visible. In many ways it’s a rational position to hold. However, once someone adopts the requirement of evidence to build their worldview, few are willing to accept the possibilty of the incredible, without incredible evidence. This is also why few (if any) atheists would refuse to believe if they were presented with irrefutable evidence. n.b. this would not then compel them to worship, which is what I suspect is the real gripe the faithful have with atheists.
Hmmm.. sorry, went a little further than I intended there, but will still hit submit.
I don’t feel like you went very far at all. Treating faith as a single axis with religious on one end, atheist on the other, and agnostic in the middle is a really common and bad misconception. Reality is more complex, and actually understanding each other requires understanding that complexity.
It’s kind of like how people treat faith like a single question of whether you believe in one singular god, rather than a question of whether you believe in hundreds of deities scattered across dozens of religions.
It’s pretty much impossible to really understand most atheists (or even others who don’t share your religion) if you can’t kick those misconceptions.
And do you believe in them as existing or do you believe they are owed a place of worship/faith/trust? Because even if I was convinced there were gods, I’d still have doubts they had humanity’s “best interests” in mind, or that humanity’s “best interests” would even be comprehensible within the idea of species or individual survival etc. I highly doubt anything that mind boggling profound to a human has our same priorities… good or bad, that makes a pretty large level of distrust on my end.
Yeah, this is also a separate question, too. I definitely agree that anything someone would call a deity is probably not a being I’d trust. How often in fiction are there gods that are simply genuinely good people, let alone good enough for worship? Almost never in my experience.
Honestly, the concept of worshipping in the way religious people do baffles me a bit. Even when I’m trying to do something like roleplay a devout character in D&D or write a religious person, it’s very hard to get into that mindset.
Logically sound, but it doesn’t really reflect a lot of atheists. Particularly Joyce.
Atheism doesn’t require someone to adopt “the requirement of evidence to build their worldview”, it just requires the lack of belief in God. Joyce in particular did not rebuild her worldview based on evidence, she stopped feeling God’s presence (or stopped pretending she felt it.) Linked more likely to the personal betrayals of her mother and their church than to rational considerations of the evidence for or against God.
Also, from my interactions with many rational skeptical atheists online, in areas outside religion they don’t seem to be very good at that “requirements of evidence” thing. Full of the same prejudices and fallacies as any of us.
This is kind of the natural other side to the loud, spunky personality she has. Both are rooted in a lack of respect for boundaries and not caring what others think. It takes maturity to recognize the difference between healthy boundaries/not caring what others think of you and unhealthy boundaries/not caring how others feel as a result of your actions. I’m hoping we’ll see her grow and get better about this.
…she stopped calling herself “Billie” just because she didn’t want her name to begin with “Bi,” didn’t she.
Yeah, Jennifer trying to get back into the closet isn’t quite where I was expecting this arc to go. I mean it’s not like a bi person being in a straight relationship invalidates their bi-ness, but her calling it a phase is making it pretty clear to me that she’s not in a good place mentally. She’s right that her relationship with Ruth wasn’t very healthy, but this is not a healthy response. Here’s hoping Leslie is able to help her figure that out.
Becky continues to be the absolute best and the absolute worst simultaneously.
It may have been a joke, but I don’t think it is completely off.
“Billie” Is much more masculine sounding than Jennifer, so she may very likely have stopped going by Billie as an attempt to erase her own bisexuality.
Honestly, the fact that she’s gone from using a neutral/masculine nickname to her feminine birth name makes me think that she’s trying to erase more than just her sexuality.
Honestly I don’t see how Becky is anything but the worst in this interaction. Like, maybe the worst she’s ever been. These two people are no longer dating, would clearly rather avoid each other, and one is making very valid points about how toxic their relationship dynamic was. But Becky thinks they’re ~cute~, so she gets to push and cause them discomfort as much as she wants.
Not mention, at this point I think it’s fair to say that Becky is insistent on denying Billie’s bisexuality because she’s invested in seeing other romantic relationships between women in her personal life, no matter how toxic. Yeah, Billie also seems to be denying her bisexuality, and it’s unhealthy. But it’s healthy to understand the toxic dynamic she had with Ruth, so I’m not sure anyone could say she’s worse off now than she was before. Not to mention Billie is ENTITLED to determine her own labels–if she thinks Ruth was a phase, who is Becky or anyone else (save a qualified therapist or a reader who is able to act as omniscient observer) to argue?
Two people who are separated but should be back together is a very old trope. Becky, who is trope savvy even though she was home-schooled for religious reason, is just fulfilling her role. It’s up to Willis whether she succeeds, but I think DYW really likes writing Ruth-Billie/Jennifer interactions. Given the rate at which DOA proceeds, we may find out before the heat death of the universe.
I mean, it feeds into Becky’s childish view of how life should be a sitcom (her rivalry with Dorothy, and now this). It’s going to get her hurt, though.
It’s super interesting that this class is GENDER STUDIES. I would think that Billie would steer clear of that.
On the other hand, back when they were dating, their fighting was a form of flirting. Them fighting now has the same kind of energy, which Becky recognizes.
And while it’s generally best to accept people’s own labels, reality matters too. Jennifer was denying she was queer even when she was dating Ruth (or back in high school, sleeping with Alice). Denial is a thing and “phase” is bullshit.
Ugh. Phase? I felt like I was being a little harsh on her in my feelings before but more and more I’m beginning to feel justified in disliking this change.
Right, she’s had… issues. Like she knows she’s bi, but also says things like this, or her relationship with Alice in highschool. She has a lot to deprogram, whoever she is with.
I mean, maybe we don’t get mad at people for their own internalized bigotry when it’s aimed at themselves.
I hope she grows past this weird need to deny her interest in women, but it’s not like there aren’t good reasons for some of us to go through this part of the process :/
Season 1’s passage of time averaged 66.67:1 against the real world last I checked. Rounding the decimal up that gives us 1,934 real-world days to 29 DoA days, or roughly 5 years and 3 months worth of comics.
I really should recalculate that and compile all the statistics now that Season 1’s cast in stone…
Yeah, as a bisexual male myself, I KNOW that verbiage. She’s doing the “I’m not bisexual, really I have a heterosexual love interest and everything! It was just a phase” thing.
Yeah, and it sucks a lot for the person doing it to go through and it’s made so much worse by so many societal narratives essentially feeding that garbage with toxic nonsense like “lesbian until graduation” or acting like bi people are only the sexuality of their current partner.
It definitely makes room for growth and development. Two opposing fundamentalists in a scene is obviously going nowhere. (unless they need to go through each other to get where they’re going)
Don’t resist the Blowjob cat! It is your destiny!….But also it’s a good thing Becky is nearby. She’s being a little cringe right now but her closet destroying power should keep Jennifer’s denial in a state of check.
She *is* like a closet-smashing wrecking ball, isn’t she? I still remember when she was breaking into her house, and paused to holler “HEY EVERYBODY, I’M GAY!!!” into the neighborhood. :3
Also, oh yes just a phase that got you to give up a life crippling alcohol addiction. Look I’d be more convinced that whatever spark between those two had died out if they just exchanged hellos and then ignored each other for the rest of the class…You know instead of this passion filled argument that they usually have in every other lovers spat of theirs.
As screwed up as Jennifer is, Becky is almost looking worse for trying to encourage these two renew their toxic relationship because she thinks this is cute. I hope it’s just that Becky is still so excited about being out that she can’t see past “lesbians: YAY!” as opposed to her thinking that this is healthy.
It’s also rather obnoxious to insert herself into their discussion.
I really want to like Becky, but she makes is difficult sometimes.
You don’t UNDERSTAND, in her worldview (which was similar to Joyce’s old one) love fixes everything forever! They’ll get back together and get married (and then have sex) and have children and be a perfect family! You’ll see.
Hopefully we’ll see Becky move past that toxic narrative in a similar way as Joyce has had to, though she might be more resistant to it for longer because of her likely narratives about her own life where her love for first Joyce and now Dina probably does feel like it has saved her from her former life.
But yeah, she’s coming from a perspective of being raised by toxic narratives of fundamentalist roles and essentially not great romantic comedies for her only real understanding of love and positive relationships and that can be a real mess to unlearn.
To be fair, in this scenario Billingsworth and Lessick are inserting their argument in a functionally public space. It may be impolite for Becky to inject, but it’s impolite for B&L to be going at it here in class as well.
I don’t like any of this. Billie and Ruth were crazy toxic and Becky trying to push em back together is gross. Don’t ship real people dude. (Yes I know. I mean real to themselves)
This makes me wonder about just how toxic the McIntire’s marriage was prior to Becky’s mom committing suicide. I cannot imagine what could possibly make Becky think this is a romantic interaction.
Early Joyce thought The Parent Trap was totally romantic and should be emulated with Joe’s parents in real life. Becky was raised in the same type of environment.
The issue is that Jennifer apparently is trying hard to be straight rather than honestly saying she’s bi. (I mean, I guess it might actually have been a phase, but I don’t trust people who say that, especially so soon after their break-up.)
I am like… genuinely worried Billy is taking on a homophobic streak, what with her emphasis on “BOYFRIEND” last comic and assistance that her thing with Ruth was a “weird phase”.
Maybe I’m just self-conscious because I’m shaped like Billy and named Ruth, and my wife is shaped a bit like Ruth, but not named Billy. Or Jennefer. And our personalities are nothing like theirs. Still, maybe that’s giving me hangups.
It’s internalised biphobia she has always been shown to have. It’s why even with Ruth, she was mostly interested in going places with ‘hot guys’ as it is hard for her to acknowledge her relationships with not guys as being as ‘real’.
“Not like the moon! Not like my periods, either! Although it would be a pretty sick burn to tell Ruth that dating her was about as pleasant as one of those. Hmm.”
A moment of silence for Ruth, Listening To Your Same-Sex Ex Talk About Their Relationship With Their New Hetero Partner SUCKS, even without the codependent plane crash of a past and the implicit bi/homophobia.
Wow i’m impressed that Billie has grasped the “knowing the difference between fighting and flirting” and yet somehow managed to imply that a hetero relationship is the “correct” kind of relationship. And also be really pleased with herself about dating a guy whom we’ve only ever seen being a dick.
When you think you’re getting healthier, but just going down another hole…
Both shown by him sending or receiving a text after the event saying ‘it’s done’, both with ambiguous other participants – after the same line was used for killing Blaine, there was some speculation he HADN’T sent the first one to Blaine after all but to Gramps or perhaps Lester (in a ‘we can’t stop the kidnapping without his death being hella suspicious, but he blackmailed the boss’s grandkid so he’s gonna die for that regardless’ way,) though Blaine is still probably the most likely option.
My guess is that Asher said nothing about the blackmail, but warned Gramps at some point that one of his stooges was causing trouble on campus that was likely to go public if he wasn’t silenced. May have waited until he was caught so that he could be silenced quickly without any chance to reveal his blackmail info.
She bit her lip before, here I think she’s grinning so hard her lips are curled in against her teeth. I mean, you physically can not bite your lip while showing the teeth behind it. Not without the lip being physically transparent.
Each morning I get up I die a little
Can barely stand on my feet
Take a look at DoA and cry
Lord, what you’re doing to me
I have spent all my years in following you
But I just can’t get no relief, Lord!
Somebody, ooh somebody
Can anybody bring back “Billie loves Ruth”?
—
Oh, never mind me, a story needs to be free. And some stories and relationships just can’t work. I am going to trust the story. But this broke my stupid heart a little, and I feel it every morning when the update arrives.
Yeah. I’ve been fascinated by these two since Roomies. They were easily my favourite characters back then. But Ruth died and was dead for so many years. During this time it was revealed that they had had a brief fling in college.
Then they came back, both alive, started a relationship. On poisoned ground, yes, but in another universe Joe and Rachel, Joyce and Walky, Leslie and Robin, Mike and Amber were all relationships that were unlikely to succeed, but did. Around the time Ruth and Billie started their erratic courtship, my wife and I divorced after 31 years. My hopes for Ruth and Billie were paired in my mind with my hopes for myself.
And now that was just a phase. And Billie isn’t even Billie any more.
I do know that I’m being stupid and ridiculous, and taking this way out of proportion. It’s only a comic.
Yeah her life up until now was quite a mess, she is trying to stick to “Normal, Good Girl” persona right now to start making sense of her life… which is incredibly ironic considering her choice of boyfriend.
But the reason she didn’t think her relationship with Alice in high school was a big deal was also tied into her biphobia. This attitude doesn’t come from a bad relationship with Ruth. It was there from the start, in a slightly different form.
Now it’s apparently a “phase” that she’s done with rather than just “no big deal. Everyone likes girls sometimes. I’m normal.” There’s not really a lot of difference there.
Unless her therapist was so bad they should have their license revoked, I don’t think this is the therapists doing. No reputable therapist would tell Ms. Billingsworth she’s “done therapy” in three months (or likely ever). Far more likely is that our young protagonist bailed on therapy when she didn’t like the direction it was going / what she was learning about herself.
But no mistake, there are some mind-boglingly horrible therapists and doctors out there, stranger than you would likely imagine. That is fortunately the exception, not the norm.
But for a likely-overworked campus therapist, because there are rarely enough of those on a large campus for the student population that need support, those odds get way higher. I don’t think IU does what some other schools its size do and cap the number of sessions you can have with campus therapy per semester (yes, really, this works as terribly as you’d think,) but there are a lot of ways if she was seeing a school one that they could have seriously let her down.
I feel like Willis is basically doing a subversion of that stupid old “lesbians are just straight women who were in a bad straight relationship and can be turned back to ‘normal’ by a good one” trope.
If I understand you, agreed. He is having Billingsworth go through that, likely both for cultural awareness/relevance (because people seem to actually think that way) and because it deserves to be confronted and is a reasonable source of realistic (natural) drama. Doesn’t require yaeds (yet another evil dad) or other external source of strife.
It’s been a while and I can’t promise I’ll be here regularly as I’m generally a mess these days because of losing my partner in the last year, but I figured I’d roll out an oldie and do a Comic Reaction.
Panel 1: Oh Becky, no. Like I get it, it’s romantic comedy cliches, which is about 50% of her learned ideas about love. The bickering couple and especially the pair who have a big breakup but their Love TM is so strong it pulls them back together. It’s Ross and Rachel from Friends writ large. And the only problem is that stuff isn’t real and often harmful. Breakups often happen for a reason and while exes can reunite, it’s way more likely to break again for similar reasons than end in the happily ever after a lot of fiction depicts. Often because the exes are following fiction rather than using the perspective of distance, growth, and time allowing them to grow into new sorts of people that are more compatible than they were.
And for Becky who is in that drunk giddy phase of baby gay energy and for whom Jennifer and Ruth was I believe her first real example of a queer relationship and I suspect a pairing she clung to as an example of queer love being a possibility that could just be and be normal without the angry denials and parental badness. So she’s more likely to cling on to that image she had rather than the reality of what these two exes need to heal apart from each other.
Panel 2: Good on Jennifer here. Noting that fighting and flirting aren’t the same thing is a very good thing and especially for her because yeah, that aspect of her and Ruth’s relationship where drag-down knockout verbal brawls were seen as essentially foreplay was HELLA toxic.
It just sucks for her, because we have the privilege of a wandering camera and thus know what she is likely being kept in the dark about, which is that Asher is an operative for a literal crime syndicate that is responsible for the death of one of the main cast and that he is indirectly involved in the incident that led to the kidnapping of half the main cast.
When that all drops, the fallout is not going to be good for Jennifer and whatever strides she has made (and yeah, I’ll note that here. Like I’m going to be real disappointed in her in later panels, but she has made some improvements overall in her stability that should be noted and celebrated even if they are being held together by a toxic sludge of self-denial and a refusal to continue the work of working on herself because she thinks she is “fixed now”).
Panel 3: Again, I get it. Becky was raised by romantic comedies and probably has an unhealthy attachment to the idea of these two in particular being soulmates because this was the first queer relationship of her age group she really got to see.
But still, this is such a fucked thing to say to any pair of exes. Like even if there were still sexual tension or romantic feelings, relationships end for real reasons for the most part and treating it like it’s inevitable that that will be undone any day now is just disrespectful to that and can poke on some very open wounds especially if that breakup is relatively fresh.
Panel 4: Oof. Yeah. I said it for Becky and I’ll say it for Jennifer. I get it. I really do. There are so many toxic ready made narratives pushed onto bi people, especially young bi people in college. Narratives about “lesbians until graduation”, ways of treating bi people as being the sexuality of their current relationship, and so much bullshit historical revision of these things just being “the sowing of wild oats” and other such nonsense. Even toxic bullshit about how queer relationships are an immature relationship and the stability of a “straight” relationship being a sign of “growing up”.
It’s force-fed through culture and reinforced by parents and Jennifer has already been seen to be prey to these narratives, discounting the reality and validity of her earlier sapphic connections in high school and being in denial of her own mental state and needs with regards to recovery, often treating things like therapy with suspicion as if they mark her as “bad”.
And I’m also mostly sad about it because this shit is deeply damaging for bi people trapped in it. This internalized biphobia can make it hard for the person to fully love themselves and build fully healthy relationships where their whole self can be loved for who they are no matter who their current partner is.
Panel 5: Becky is an ass here, but my Bob do I fucking love this answer to the bullshit “phase” concept, because yeah, phases are parts of fucking cycles not something that happens once and then never happens again.
I also love it for Becky’s answer because it shows again her love of science poking through as this is exactly the kinda of super nerdy shit sciencey folks joke about.
Plus, as I noted above, the whole “phase” concept with regards to queerness can happily die in a fire for how much real damage it has done to bisexual people over the last however many decades it has been in active rotation.
Oh additional thought. Panel 3 Becky is additionally cruel because well, I’m not fully sure Ruth IS actually over her feelings for Jennifer so that’s got to feel like a red hot poker to her soul because Ruth does seem to be well aware in a way that their relationship is over and very unlikely to ever come back (and if it did, it would have to involve the two of them becoming very different people to who they were through separate therapy and growth and those future versions of themselves happening to be compatible enough).
I agree that Becky is far too caught up in fairy tale myths about relationships.
My other take on this is that she is far too quick to assume she knows all about J & R and their relationship, and that she is on close enough terms to give them advice about it. She isn’t.
Let people make their own decisions about their own lives. Especially when you know very little about them. Which for Becky is everyone except for Joyce and Dina.
And absolutely. Which also fits into both her viewing of Ruth and Jennifer as well as her overall “I use humor to keep from breaking down and crying” energy. She wants to be the jocular jokester to everyone and she feels more connected to Jennifer and Ruth than she actually is because she views their former relationship in such hyperfocused light.
She also feels connected to Jennifer because she borrowed her bed and because she missed the suicidal signs.
She also may well know more about the breakup than we do, which is part of why I’m reserving judgement here. Relationships usually end for real reasons, but not always and we don’t know about this one.
Cerberus! Good to see you again. Sorry to hear about your partner. 8(
I feel like bi-folk face an extra hurdle that facilitates bi-erasure, and that is that most fiction tends to take place over relatively short time periods, so a bi character tends to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender (and is therefore seen as “straight”), someone of the same gender (and is therefore seen as “gay”), or they engage in multiple relationships over a short time period which tends to be depicted as either “emotionally immature” or “slut”. Even if another relationship is mentioned with a different gender than the one they end up staying with, the usual result is that it tends to be seen as the “phase” thing (“oh, he ended up staying with him and not her because he was actually gay all along”).
Welcome back Cerb! We miss your insightful discourses when you’re gone, but it’s just a webcomic, you gotta be where you need to be. Grieving isn’t “just a phase”, either. Take the time you need.
Good to see you again, take your time, and I am so sorry to hear about your partner.
I always love your insights here. I definitely agree that Becky’s investment in Ruth/Jennifer is in part because they were one of the first she saw. (There’s also Grace/Mandy/Sierra/possibly Agatha?, but I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s different in Becky’s mind because it’s a polycule and she still ascribes to the ‘marriage is between TWO people, and marriage is the MOST legitimate form of relationship’ mindset. That said, she hasn’t brought up any biphobia since the Patreon strip where Sierra explained she was pan, way back… though watch as I say that and tomorrow she does… so it’s possible she has done some unpacking there.)
I definitely agree that Jennifer has made some genuine progress, and that I’d like her to keep it. Even if I’m not 100% on all the changes being a genuinely better state as opposed to some of them being her reinvention thing, she’s clearly much less depressed and much more capable of basic social interactions – she’s not judging Lucy for being a nerd anymore, it’s great! If Asher weren’t still actively embroiled in mob shit, I think so far that relationship IS promising (from what little we’ve seen, at least,) but… well, as you said, we the readers know he is. That one’s gonna be interesting to see dissolve. And also probably quite painful. (I can’t WAIT.)
I’m so sorry to hear about your partner, but it’s cool that you’re back! Even if it’s only sometimes ❤
I hadn’t even considered Becky’s motivations beyond how she and Joyce are cut from the same cloth, but you’ve totally nailed it. She even first found out about Billie and Ruth when Ruth had been hospitalized, so she’s got all kinds of personal reasons to have an unhealthy investment in their relationship
And I can definitely sympathize with her excessive baby gay energy. I just figured out I’m trans and a lesbian myself only a couple months back (now on month 2 of HRT, WOO), so I’ve been a bundle of babby gay nonsense myself
I’m sorry to hear about your partner, Cerberus. I’m glad to see you back and glad to hear you’re taking as much care of yourself as you can. Appropriate gesture of support and hugs if wanted.
I think a lot of this makes a lot of sense. Becky is being a brat, but she’s also got lots of emotional reasons to cling to Jennifer and Ruth. She probably is still attached to Jennifer for letting her use her bed and the suicidal state she and Ruth were in, they’re her first F/F couple in her peer group and I would not be surprised if Becky considers them her friends since they’re in the same social group.
As for Jennifer and Asher……well, I think Sal already has her suspicions so I’m sure we’ll see that house of cards addressed soon enough.
It is always a pleasure to see your comments even if they are rare. I wish you well on recovering from real life events and that your mental health finds consistent stability.
I adore Becky, but she really is being kinda rude here. On the other hand, her flaws make her a more well-rounded character, which is one of the things I love about her, so…
Becky has always been very pushy for Jennifer to be who Becky wants her to be. Though that might be exaggerated by us only seeing them interact a few critical times over many of our Earth years.
The idea that a relationship will be stable because it’s with a boyfriend is so very College Mythology of Self. All those dumbass things we tell ourselves about what life is, will be, should be…
Examine them, folks. Don’t wait. Leaving them unexamined will make you So Miserable.
Looks like a lot of commenters have been calling her Billie today. Maybe it’s because the last couple days have been classic Billie shit. Her attempted personality reboots never stick, her past always climbs out of the box she stuffs it in and catches back up to her.
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I mean, I’ve been lucky enough to mostly avoid my exes through nearly complete escape velocity from my prior social circles each time, so idgi
like, I’ll be civil-ish *IF* I have to run into one (though mostly I haven’t), but going back to any of them? nah, we failed for a reason
(that said, I’ve had nightmares where my husband and I broke up, and those were distressing bc I didn’t know or understand why… and luckily those were nightmares, bc there WASN’T a reason)
Yeah. However confident you are, insecurity never completely goes away.
Isn’t that just the natural human condition tho?
This is so true, whenever I feel bad about leaving a bad situation I think of the couple of weeks that preceded me leaving and hit the evacuation button *rocket takes off*
Kind of getting some Joe-ish vibes from Becky here and that’s not a good thing. Still I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for now. But a gay Joe is still a Joe. Please don’t be a Joe, Becky!
Theory: Joyce gets along surprisingly well with Joe because his personality is somewhat Beckyish.
She and Joe get along because they started as polar opposites but have been trying to change ever since, and they recognize that in each other now that they’re approaching a middle.
Becky, on the other hand, has *stopped* trying to change herself because she’s finally accepted as who she is and doesn’t face reprimand for wearing her heart on her sleeve (and in her hair).
When they finally meet in the middle, it’s gonna be a giant smash.
Becky: Pfft. Boys don’t count as real relationships!
She’s not being horny! She’s shipping! It’s just annoying, rather than annoying AND creepy
No… RPS (Real Person Shipping) is still super creepy. Please keep your shipping to fictional characters ESPECIALLY if the real people involved aren’t into it.
I ship Joe Biden and his wife!
That’s triple creepy. 😛
You ship Joe Biden and his wife with who?
Not USPS, it’s illegal to mail people through the post office. Probably UPS or Fed-Ex or someone like that.
…. is this up to quadruple-creepy yet?
Nah you can mail people via USPS, but they gotta be ash first
i was very confused about why they would need to be a pokemon trainer until i realized what you meant
which is odd, considering we’ve gained two urns in this house in the last year but i haven’t watched pokemon in years
Just remember to apply Label 139 to each side of the box, and double-bag so they don’t leak out.
Sure. Now. But…
https://www.thoughtco.com/when-it-was-legal-mail-babies-3321266
She is keeping her shipping fictional. Just because she doesn’t know that it’s fiction…
If it wasn’t for RPS, middle school would cease to exist and morph into education.
Why is RPS creepy? I’m not trying to be obtuse here, I just… I don’t get what’s wrong with thinking two (or more) people would be a good match together?
I don’t think that real person shipping is creepy unless you say it out loud. But particularly you don’t say it to them except in the context of a strong friendship where allowances are made.
That said, being annoying isn’t a crime and doesn’t make necessarily someone evil. There are people I like a lot that can be as annoying as hell, but they are worth it.
I don’t think she’s being horny either. Joe has a more negative motivation and history applied to his actions which is why I’m Becky more slack here. But this is almost exactly something Joe did.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/continue/
It’s just something I remembered. But honestly I criticize but they all are still teenagers so it’s almost natural they’ll be a little immature about these things.
Yeah, I think Becky is coming from the point of view that they are a cute couple and the arguing is a form of flirting and they should just cut to the chase. Joe is coming at it from the point of view of they should do it because he thinks it would be hot and he would get off to it.
The two may sound somewhat the same, but they are really quite distinct.
I’m pretty sure by panel 3 she’s just trolling…
I think she’s channeling Daisy. Even has the same lip biting expression.
Who she reminded me most of… is Mike!
The Mike strain, that’s creepy for you.
Yeah, I did that once, going back to an ex. Definitely not a smart move I could ever recommend. Also watching some of the drama around some of my family who have done that.
Yeah. Becky has no idea, because she hasn’t gone through it.
Really, Asher?
damn, thats rough
Says you, I’d kill to get my Asher grav back (not literal)
Aaaand nope
Oh is this the gravroulette thread…let’s see what I got.
thank you, next.
Every thread is a gravroulette thread if you don’t call attention to it.
The thing is I keep forgetting to spin. At this point I know I’m still missing Sal and Doc Biology there, but I’ve got 17 of them recorded.
And after saying that I still forgot to spin. Okay, this time for sure.
Playing grav roulette is a silly hobby
I had Joe which was so dysphoric I haven’t been able to bring myself to try again for a while
Huh I guess I got a gravitar because of that. That tracks, honestly.
Asher huh, that blows.
I just want to acknowledge the perfectness of this response coupled with the icon.
True, but in this case Becky is very much pushing the better option. It’s purely by chance as nobody knows Asher is a huge scumbag
Then again we also don’t know any details about their breakup, either
I don’t know if it’s as simple as him just being a huge scumbag, although it’d probably be easier if it was. He’s definitely got *way* more baggage than Ruth ever did.
He was a shithead kid, but I think we need to see more of him to know if he’s still the thing he was before.
So far we’ve seen him:
– Smoke
– Get punched by Walky
– Reconcile with Sal
– Pull the fire alarm for Blaine*
– Have Blaine whacked by a dirty cop
– Ride a 4-cylinder 80s sport cruiser (Yamaha Maxim or Honda CB900)
Arguably the worst thing we’ve seen him do in the present was pull the fire alarm (which set the basement kidnapping plot into motion). Blaine had to threaten him into doing it, so that was under duress. Evidently he still has mob connections, because he was able to call that hit on Blaine. Is he the Korean mafia’s Michael Corleone? Is the “new leaf” mindset just a performative act? We don’t know yet, but I think there’s plenty of story to mine from an Asher redemption arc.
“Being single” is a better option to Ruth, a petty tyrant who spent over a year abusing those under her care. Jury’s still out on non-kid Asher.
I mean, sure, he got a guy killed, but it was a guy nobody liked so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Blaine goes waaaaaaaay beyond (beneath?) “a guy nobody liked”.
A guy who blackmailed him into being an accessory to a murder and multiple kidnappings.
Did Asher instigate that or was he just made to be there to keep an eye on things and report in?
If by “over a year”, you mean “like three weeks”. We’re still only on the second semester here
I have an inkling that she was already RA the previous year.
I’m pretty sure she’s a sophomore. They don’t let freshmen be RAs
She’s a junior.
I believe she’s officially a junior, but that she still wasn’t an RA last year. I’d thought she was, based on her early reputation, but that got contradicted at some point.
Ruth is the one who should be avoiding Billie/Jennifer instead of the other way around, Becky might not realize that it’s best to not get them together again because of Billie/Jennifer’s actions
I hate how awful Billie is being to Ruth as well, I don’t know what happened between then during the jump, but they Went Through Shit together and both denying attraction to Ruth or, it sounds like, to /any/ girl, is frankly horrible and shows Billie has not grown at all.
the “both” was meant to refer to the attraction, as well as the suggestion that Ruth is now subhuman and not deserving of basic respect, much less respect derived from a shared trauma they are both trying to get past now.
If Ruther were one, I think she would prefer the term “Laguz” to “subhuman”.
Billie doesn’t believe bisexuality is a thing; she all but said so early on in the comic, and that mindset’s coming back again now. About the closest she got to acknowledging it was when she said “A date with a girl. Huh.” to herself while getting dressed up for that fancy restaurant date with Ruth.
She brushes off her sapphic relationships with Alice and Ruth as an “experimental phase” that “everyone goes through”.
Most people should not go back to exes. You should only really consider trying again if like, the only reason you broke up was it was the wrong time and you reconnect 10 years later or if all the reasons you broke up are gone, resolved and buried, which they usually are not so they drive you away from them a second time.
there’s also the issue that we don’t entirely know exactly what caused the breakup… So remember that someone like Asher or an outside influence could be forcibly driving a wedge into the scenario.
Then they have to bury the influences. And then still not get back together because Billie’s behaviour has soured me on it regardless.
Oh. Yikes Jennifer.
I feel like I should clarify, ‘yikes’ at her phrasing of it being a weird phase. Pretty sure she’s going ex-gay.
Yeah, considering how much she constantly bi-erased herself even while she was still with Ruth, this was probably inevitable.
She’s bisexual and doesn’t really acknowledge her attraction to women as legitimate (including saying once that she was pretty sure EVERYONE thought about kissing people of the same gender sometimes.) As seen, among other things, with the fact that she thought fooling around with Alice on more than one occasion and then hooking up with football players wasn’t anything serious, whereas ALICE appears to have thought it was at least relationship-adjacent. As Ruth said when Howard visited after their relationship went public, American sex ed did Jennifer no favors – she still doesn’t seem 100% aware bisexuality is a genuine thing.
But also, once again let me point to how this has been a pattern of behavior with Jennifer – screw up badly, try to reinvent self, ignore people who don’t fit into new version of self (though in this case that means Walky and Sal rather than Ruth, we still don’t know what prompted that breakup but regardless she’s allowed a clean break,) along with downplaying a previous relationship. Much as I’d like Jennifer to be in a consistently healthier place, this looks like she’s back in the pattern and that she still hasn’t addressed at least one big underlying issue. (Her desire to be a ‘normal’, popular girl type, which her attraction to women undercuts unless it’s just a thing EVERYONE thinks about and doesn’t talk about. Which it obviously is. Because she is normal. A phrasing she has actually used at least once in this context, IIRC.) Would not be shocked if she’s still got some unaddressed depression and tried to declare all of it SOLELY the alcoholism and then codependency with a suicidally depressed person, she’s fine now, she’s cured, everything is fine! (Am however hoping she is still sober. I’d like her to have genuinely improved! I am also pretty pessimistic of her chances at present.)
Betting pool on whether or not she’s still actually in therapy?
I’m pretty sure she isn’t. In this strip, she tells Walky, “I got therapy.”
The past tense there makes me think that no, she’s not still going, and she’s convinced herself that she’s all better and doesn’t need it anymore. And it is going to kick her ass, because no way in hell is three months of therapy enough to deal with all of her issues.
Jennifer Billingsworth, Queen of Good Decisions, everybody.
Which would make sense, because if I remember old interactions with the Walkertons, they seem to be of that annoying culture that sees therapy as something “bad” or “broken” people do that “normal” people do not and I would guess the Billingsworths would be similar in that outlook.
As such, Jennifer seeing it as “well of course I did it when I was in my bad phase, but now I’m normal and fixed now so there’s no need to keep it up because I’m not in that bad phase anymore”.
Speaking of the Billingsworths, I’m kinda hoping we actually get to see Jennifer’s parents at some point, even if it’s only in flashback, as part of her overall arc here. We know very little about them, and while having them around too much could create continuity hiccups with all the stuff about them being neglectful, what little interactions they’ve actually had with their daughter must have screwed her up in some way. I’d “love” some expansion on the time Mr. Billingsworth kicked an entire city’s homeless population out.
Off topic.
Cerberus, in these eventful times I’m glad to see you alive and presumably well!!!
Hooo yeah.
On the subject of the Billingsworth parents – yeah, I want to see them in the flesh. Or over winter break. Flashback as well but if they’re active parts of the story, then they can share a strip with Joyce, and she can punch Dadingsworth in the face if need be.
LET JOYCE PUNCH ALL THE SHITTY PARENTS!
My experience with those who bail on therapy, is that they finally start to look in the mirror, don’t like the picture and “nope” the fuck out. Though to be fair, I’m still trying to remove the feces and phlegm from my own self image, so I can understand people not liking to see their true selves.
Given that Jennifer is undeniably intelligent (as long as she’s not being incredibly stupid but I shouldn’t throw stones) it’s hard to imagine a run-of-the-mill therapist manages to get her brain shut up long enough for her to actually figure out what she feels and wants.
So it probably wasn’t a very rewarding experience and she jumped ship as soon as they let her.
Everyone keeps mentioning Billie and Alice being a thing and I can’t fit the life of me remember when that came up. Would you be able to point me to the story?
This is the most obvious, but there are other references scattered around.
Yeah, that’s a bit alarming. She was doing okay other than being a bit antagonistic right up until that… Because yeah, she’s absolutely right that fighting and flirting aren’t the same thing, and it’s important to know the difference. But this does make me worry that the growth she’s had has come at the cost of throwing her bisexuality under the bus.
I’m hoping that Billie is saying RUTH is a phase rather than her bisexuality because I like the fact she’s openly bi as there’s way too much erasure in fiction. Becky was engaged in it early on if people remember.
Sort of. She believes/tries to justify it that “everyone’s curious”. Because she’s not bi. She’s normal. Normal.
Considering she previously said that she thought bisexuality only existed in porn, I’m guessing it’s the latter.
If I recall, this has been an issue for her. She’s had internalized biphobia/bi-erasure (insisted several times bisexuality isn’t a “real thing”) so this is pretty in-character for her.
Looks like her “I’m in therapy and happy and healthy now” front may not be entirely accurate since she’s still having trouble accepting that she’s bi. I get the impression she’s still very focused on portraying the “Jennifer” she thinks she should be rather than accepting herself for who she is.
And the fact that her “healthy straight relationship” is with Asher of all people, someone we know to have a questionable character, furthers my belief this is all a front and she’s not “all better now.”
Eh, Asher killed Blaine after he had kidnapped a bunch of people as well as murdered someone. Clearly he’s a moral paragon.
*internalizes action movie tropes*
In real life, yeah, that’s not great. In fiction? Makes me wanna buy Asher cookies and beer.
Counterpoint: in real life, too. If someone puts a bullet through Kissinger’s skull, I’m hiding them from the authorities and showering them with lavush praise.
That isn’t why I dislike Asher.
Well, I mean yes, that was the outcome for that situation, but he’s still embedded in deep with a Korean crime syndicate (I can’t remember if it was called the Korean Mafia or something else), so… yeah.
IIRC, Asher is actively trying to get out from that life, though he is trying to do so in a sneaky way that if exposed to his criminal family members (as Blaine threatened to do in order to secure Asher’s cooperation in the kidnapping) could result in really bad things for him. So that once again in a gray area, as he was born into that life rather than choosing it and has since decided he wants out.
Hm. I wonder is ‘Ash’er being in all sorts of moral gray areas is deliberate.
Oh wow, I hadn’t remembered that part.
That massively changes my image of Asher as I thought he was choosing (and choosing to stay in) that organization deliberately. Someone born into (or had joined previously) but actively trying to figure out their way out is a very different situation.
Well, at least he claimed to Sal he was trying to get out and leave it behind him. Whether that’s actually the case is harder to say.
He claimed to Sal he was trying to get out, but clearly contacted at least one active mobster when blackmailed to deal with Blaine (whether that was Lester going off who he already knows is in the mob or going to Gramps who revealed he knows full well about Asher’s little rebellion, but a college education will serve him well.) Alternately, Lester contacted him when it was going down to reveal the same message from Gramps as in parentheses. Since we don’t have that information, we can’t really extrapolate too much about his current state – I tend to think he was sincere in wanting out since he DID steal a ton of money from Gramps, but I could see both ‘well, if they’re going to track me down, may as well use my contacts/embrace this’ or feeling trapped and realizing he’d never escaped as far as he’d like. (Alternately: He stole the money, but not for college – Gramps thinks he’s still playing the Obedient Asset and doesn’t know Asher robbed him for something completely off-base.)
What we know for sure about Asher’s mob ties are that his grandfather’s in a major role (‘my Gramps OWNS you,’) that he did genuinely steal money from Gramps (because Blaine could use it to blackmail him,) and that he was involved enough to know Blaine on sight, and vice versa. That leaves a lot of room in his potential motivations and dealings with the kidnapping. I’d like him to be trying to get out, but regardless, he’s embroiled in it more than I think any of the other cast would want to be.
@ Clif – Blaine told Asher his grandfather still wasn’t very happy about Asher not being in the family business anymore. Whatever else Asher’s said, him trying to leave was legit. That said, since he was notified, if not involved, about Blaine’s death, and Grandpa must have noticed he can somehow pay for university without him, it might only be a matter of time before he discovers how much money is gone and figures out what must have happened (if, indeed, he hasn’t already and offered to take care of Blaine if he came back).
It’s probably a little late to get in on this but my problem with Asher isn’t even necessarily his vague criminal ties. That is a problem but the main character trait that I distrust about him is that he is very selfish. Specifically that in any situation where he has to choose between saving himself or someone he supposedly cares about he’ll choose himself. He’s done it twice so far. Once with Sal, snitching her out to the cops for the gas station robbery which by his own admission was not with good intentions but only for his own amusement and safety. And then again when he created the opening for the kidnapping because Blaine blackmailed him.
Asher may even be an okay guy all things considered. People like Mary are probably worse to be around than him, but when push comes to shove Asher has proven he’ll choose himself every time. That’s not someone I’d want to be in a committed relationship with. Maybe he’d be good for some fun but not a steady thing and Jennifer could discover that at the worst possible time. Things are fun right now but heavy drama always finds it’s way back to DoA.
I thought one of the cops killed Blaine?
Also didn’t Asher assist with the kidnapping or provide info to help with it? I don’t remember the specifics. And we do know he threw Sal under the bus when they were teens, contributing to her arrest. He does not strike me as an admirable and heroic guy.
The Jennifer she thinks she should be and not the one she actually is is the PERFECT descriptor of what she does, thank you! And yeah, I do think she’s doing better than she was at the suicide pact nadir, but Asher’s a cue to us if nothing else that this isn’t a genuine, stable state. I think she’s genuinely improved in some respects, or at least I hope so, but there’s others she seems to be burying to keep up appearances. That probably won’t last any longer this time than it did last time.
That said, I don’t think Jennifer has any idea about all of Asher’s trouble. I could see her knowing the same story he told Sal – and I do think that was a sincere story, since Blaine did blackmail him with it – but by now he knows he hasn’t escaped entirely, whether he wants to or not. No way he’s told anyone that he was at best a go-between so the mob could clean up a misbehaving stooge, at worst arranged it himself. (I’m pretty sure that one’s a step too far for Jennifer. I can easily buy ‘our families were awful but that’s DONE now, we can both be nice normal college students,’ but if he’s still embroiled then that’s another set of mental calculus. If he is genuinely trying to get out, I feel bad for Asher. I kind of hope so. I’d like the kid not to go full supervillain.)
All we know of Asher is that you can’t trust him. Maybe he has another side, but we can’t see it.
Billie has denied being anything but straight more than once and has never been openly bi. She’s been in denial for a long time. There’s also no reason to emphasize ‘boyfriend’ unless she’s calling liking girls a phase.
I figured the phase she refers to is self-destruction.
Jennifer wins a point for the fighting/flirting distinction. And loses one for the “weird phrase” bs.
“I don’t know why I was interested in a lesbian suicide pact! Living is good!”
I’m not liking the “weird phase” talk or the emphasis on “boyfriend” immediately preceding it. While it’s good that she acknowledges her dynamic with Ruth wasn’t always healthy, I really hope she’s not forcing herself back into the closet because of that.
thats pretty much what’s happening here
putting on that front of straightness to avoid ruth
I hope not. Its likely but it’d be a shame. Jennifer is the best bisexual character in the cast.
…you surely meant, “except for Ruth”, right?
I generally think of Ruth as abusive and gaslighting her relationships. She was in a VERY bad place but I will never think of her as the better of the two.
I thought Ruth was a lesbian?
She’s never claimed to be one. But given how rarely she interacts with guys I can see how one could make that assumption.
There’s been occasional mentions of an ex-boyfriend (Ciaran?), but it predates the comic.
She’s mentioned a boyfriend back before her parents died.
She had a boyfriend back in Canada before being forced to move, and I believe Willis explicitly confirmed that she’s bi somewhere. She’s no more a lesbian than Jennifer is straight.
Back for one of the bi awareness days before Danny realized, Willis ran a picture during the Roomies reruns of Ruth, Billie*, and Danny together in one picture (as she married Danny in that universe, and had still had a mutually self-destructive Thing with Ruth.) Once Danny had his realization, Willis pointed out that all three characters in said picture were bisexual and he’d known all along. (Walkyverse Ruth was already known onscreen to be bisexual, having had said mutually self-destructive thing with Billie and a Tragic Backstory involving a Shitty Dude who dumped her after having sex – that universe’s Ryan, who is not to our knowledge a rapist so manages to somehow be the better version.)
* Who exclusively went by Billie in the Walkyverse, so I’m still using it for that counterpart. Seriously, this book is the first time she has EVER used Jennifer as her primary name since she and Walky come up with nicknames for each other. It is so weird to adjust with that. Like I’m doing it, but it is an adjustment.
God, is she really? That’s so sad.
Danny was doing better for a while, but I guess he kinda shit the bed with the Ethan thing, and we’ve barely seen him post-timeskip to know where he is on the Danny scale now.
Pretty sure Sierra’s bi, let’s just call her best bisexual and be done with it.
She’s fighting herself, so putting the emphasis on that give her reassurances that she’s doing better even if she’s actually doing a lot worse
but who knows, maybe she’s perfect with Asher and his actions
I’m hoping that’s not what she’s doing, but it worries me since she previously has thought bisexuality doesn’t exist despite being clearly bisexual herself.
Also, she seems to be thinking her relationship with Ruth was unhealthy, but for the wrong reasons. It doesn’t look at this point like Ms. Billingsworth has grown at all.
Not quite like the moon, for phases only exist relative to the earth.
Now, what can that tell us here?
this bi is telling a big ol lie
Were-lesbian?
*Marty Feldman pops up*
There lesbian! *points at Becky*
They’re bisexual! *points at Jennifer and Ruth*
Ok, brilliant comment. (Offers cookies)
thank you
Is Ruth picturing Jennifer as Sailor Moon?
Depending on her tastes, she could be assuming Jennifer is Bayonetta.
Not enough vertical superiority though.
That ribbon on her shirt looks kind of magical girl-esque now that you mention it.
You’re very quickly crossing the line into “creepy” here, Becky…
I’m almost missing her being a passive-aggressive asshole towards Dorothy. Almost.
Yeah, this just seems… inappropriate, to say the least.
she has a point, she has heard about what happened before and witnessed a bit of it: Billie/Jennifer is acting the same as she was before, I don’t actually see a change in her except in how she is starting to see that Ruth moved on
I can do without the snotty act for a while, this might redeem her
For me, the takeaway here is that Becky being annoying is a character trait and not just limited to her passive-aggressive, one sided rivalry with Dorothy. (I’m beginning to think that the sh*t is really going to hit the fan one Becky finds out that Joyce now identifies as atheist–although I really can’t see Joyce going any further than being agnostic.)
Agnosticism is orthogonal to the faith vs atheism axis. Agnosticism just stipulates that God’s existence is un-knowable (in the factual/evidence based sense). There are both faithless and faithfull agnostics. Now, agnosticism is often used as a marker of a boundary between faith and faithless, probably because that’s where the distinction is most visible. In many ways it’s a rational position to hold. However, once someone adopts the requirement of evidence to build their worldview, few are willing to accept the possibilty of the incredible, without incredible evidence. This is also why few (if any) atheists would refuse to believe if they were presented with irrefutable evidence. n.b. this would not then compel them to worship, which is what I suspect is the real gripe the faithful have with atheists.
Hmmm.. sorry, went a little further than I intended there, but will still hit submit.
I don’t feel like you went very far at all. Treating faith as a single axis with religious on one end, atheist on the other, and agnostic in the middle is a really common and bad misconception. Reality is more complex, and actually understanding each other requires understanding that complexity.
It’s kind of like how people treat faith like a single question of whether you believe in one singular god, rather than a question of whether you believe in hundreds of deities scattered across dozens of religions.
It’s pretty much impossible to really understand most atheists (or even others who don’t share your religion) if you can’t kick those misconceptions.
And do you believe in them as existing or do you believe they are owed a place of worship/faith/trust? Because even if I was convinced there were gods, I’d still have doubts they had humanity’s “best interests” in mind, or that humanity’s “best interests” would even be comprehensible within the idea of species or individual survival etc. I highly doubt anything that mind boggling profound to a human has our same priorities… good or bad, that makes a pretty large level of distrust on my end.
Yeah, this is also a separate question, too. I definitely agree that anything someone would call a deity is probably not a being I’d trust. How often in fiction are there gods that are simply genuinely good people, let alone good enough for worship? Almost never in my experience.
Honestly, the concept of worshipping in the way religious people do baffles me a bit. Even when I’m trying to do something like roleplay a devout character in D&D or write a religious person, it’s very hard to get into that mindset.
Logically sound, but it doesn’t really reflect a lot of atheists. Particularly Joyce.
Atheism doesn’t require someone to adopt “the requirement of evidence to build their worldview”, it just requires the lack of belief in God. Joyce in particular did not rebuild her worldview based on evidence, she stopped feeling God’s presence (or stopped pretending she felt it.) Linked more likely to the personal betrayals of her mother and their church than to rational considerations of the evidence for or against God.
Also, from my interactions with many rational skeptical atheists online, in areas outside religion they don’t seem to be very good at that “requirements of evidence” thing. Full of the same prejudices and fallacies as any of us.
This is kind of the natural other side to the loud, spunky personality she has. Both are rooted in a lack of respect for boundaries and not caring what others think. It takes maturity to recognize the difference between healthy boundaries/not caring what others think of you and unhealthy boundaries/not caring how others feel as a result of your actions. I’m hoping we’ll see her grow and get better about this.
Maybe, but remember her loud spunky personality is rooted in covering up her own self-doubts. “No one likes a Debbie Downer.”
Billie and Ruth now look like they have almost the same hairstyle.
“Oh, this will be discreet.”
https://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/145744578467/secretary-of-swagriculture-enthusiangst-the
Who lobotomized Billie?
Asher.
Hey now. Sure he’s a dick, but it’s honestly looking more like she lobotomized herself and her relations with Asher are just a symptom of that.
Not like the moon, th’ inconstant moon, That monthly changes in her circle orb…
…she stopped calling herself “Billie” just because she didn’t want her name to begin with “Bi,” didn’t she.
Yeah, Jennifer trying to get back into the closet isn’t quite where I was expecting this arc to go. I mean it’s not like a bi person being in a straight relationship invalidates their bi-ness, but her calling it a phase is making it pretty clear to me that she’s not in a good place mentally. She’s right that her relationship with Ruth wasn’t very healthy, but this is not a healthy response. Here’s hoping Leslie is able to help her figure that out.
Becky continues to be the absolute best and the absolute worst simultaneously.
Uhhh I don’t think so. The bi in Billie is pronounced differently. This is probably just reinventing herself after a breakup.
Yeah, that part was a joke. Not a very good one.
i liked it
It may have been a joke, but I don’t think it is completely off.
“Billie” Is much more masculine sounding than Jennifer, so she may very likely have stopped going by Billie as an attempt to erase her own bisexuality.
Having thought about it for a month:
Honestly, the fact that she’s gone from using a neutral/masculine nickname to her feminine birth name makes me think that she’s trying to erase more than just her sexuality.
Honestly I don’t see how Becky is anything but the worst in this interaction. Like, maybe the worst she’s ever been. These two people are no longer dating, would clearly rather avoid each other, and one is making very valid points about how toxic their relationship dynamic was. But Becky thinks they’re ~cute~, so she gets to push and cause them discomfort as much as she wants.
Not mention, at this point I think it’s fair to say that Becky is insistent on denying Billie’s bisexuality because she’s invested in seeing other romantic relationships between women in her personal life, no matter how toxic. Yeah, Billie also seems to be denying her bisexuality, and it’s unhealthy. But it’s healthy to understand the toxic dynamic she had with Ruth, so I’m not sure anyone could say she’s worse off now than she was before. Not to mention Billie is ENTITLED to determine her own labels–if she thinks Ruth was a phase, who is Becky or anyone else (save a qualified therapist or a reader who is able to act as omniscient observer) to argue?
To clarify, I meant “the best” from an out-of-universe perspective, in that I enjoy reading Becky’s antics.
In-universe, yeah, she is being extremely unhelpful right now. I’m really hoping Leslie will be the voice of reason in all of this.
Two people who are separated but should be back together is a very old trope. Becky, who is trope savvy even though she was home-schooled for religious reason, is just fulfilling her role. It’s up to Willis whether she succeeds, but I think DYW really likes writing Ruth-Billie/Jennifer interactions. Given the rate at which DOA proceeds, we may find out before the heat death of the universe.
I mean, it feeds into Becky’s childish view of how life should be a sitcom (her rivalry with Dorothy, and now this). It’s going to get her hurt, though.
It’s super interesting that this class is GENDER STUDIES. I would think that Billie would steer clear of that.
Becky doesn’t view life as a sitcom. She knows it’s an internet comic strip.
Becky’s evolving into Gwenpool.
Jennifer might not have signed up for Gender Studies, but Billie and Ruth did.
On the other hand, back when they were dating, their fighting was a form of flirting. Them fighting now has the same kind of energy, which Becky recognizes.
And while it’s generally best to accept people’s own labels, reality matters too. Jennifer was denying she was queer even when she was dating Ruth (or back in high school, sleeping with Alice). Denial is a thing and “phase” is bullshit.
So when she pretends she’s straight, is that a Bi-lie?
Ugh. Phase? I felt like I was being a little harsh on her in my feelings before but more and more I’m beginning to feel justified in disliking this change.
She has been that way for a long time, almost since her first appearance…denial is strong in her
Right, she’s had… issues. Like she knows she’s bi, but also says things like this, or her relationship with Alice in highschool. She has a lot to deprogram, whoever she is with.
She thinks, or at least says, that being “curious” is normal. Totally normal. Ayup.
Hrm…. are you all sure you’re talking about the same ‘her’?
I mean, maybe we don’t get mad at people for their own internalized bigotry when it’s aimed at themselves.
I hope she grows past this weird need to deny her interest in women, but it’s not like there aren’t good reasons for some of us to go through this part of the process :/
Humans are scum and need to be totally destroyed.
Why, yes, I’m human. Why do you ask?
Becky had a winner there, Billie/Jennifer can’t come back from that zinger because it’s about as true as you can get with her
29 days huh? Shit how long would that be in real time?
Off the top of my head without doing any math, I wanna say about… seven years or so?
Closer to 5 or 6 years i think. We got arrival/move-in day to just before halloween. So ~2mos/decade or (inverted) 5years/month. kinda. if you squint.
.
ish.
In days?
OVER 9000!
It’s gonna happen. In 29 in-universe days, Becky’s prophesy will come true, but it will have been so long no one will remember anymore.
Every comment section of each of these strips might as well be a time capsule in it of itself to be opened every 3\4ths of a decade.
Season 1’s passage of time averaged 66.67:1 against the real world last I checked. Rounding the decimal up that gives us 1,934 real-world days to 29 DoA days, or roughly 5 years and 3 months worth of comics.
I really should recalculate that and compile all the statistics now that Season 1’s cast in stone…
Ya know what IS like the moon?!
MY BUTT!
GOT ‘EM
Oh. Ooooooooooooooh.
Yeah, as a bisexual male myself, I KNOW that verbiage. She’s doing the “I’m not bisexual, really I have a heterosexual love interest and everything! It was just a phase” thing.
Ooof. The feels. Too real Willis. Way too real.
Internalized biphobia is a real bongo, oof.
Yeah, and it sucks a lot for the person doing it to go through and it’s made so much worse by so many societal narratives essentially feeding that garbage with toxic nonsense like “lesbian until graduation” or acting like bi people are only the sexuality of their current partner.
Sokka had an ex who was like the moon, too.
That’s rough, buddy.
Oh God, that’s right, we’re finally getting an animated theatrical ATLA film! That still hasn’t sunken in yet…
Calm down, RTD! Have some cactus juice! It’ll quench ya! Nothin’s quenchier!
I mean, I’m not sure why I specified “animated,” since it’s not like there was a live-action film or anything, was there?
Here we are safe. Here we are free.
Shortpacked Book 37: Not Like The Moon
Becky, you’re probably right that there’s still feelings there, but you’re not helping.
Billie, you’re right on flirting vs fighting, but OOF that closet is a powerful force.
Ugh, no.
I like it when absolutely nobody in a scene is completely right. It makes the interactions more interesting.
Agreed.
Same.
It definitely makes room for growth and development. Two opposing fundamentalists in a scene is obviously going nowhere. (unless they need to go through each other to get where they’re going)
Don’t resist the Blowjob cat! It is your destiny!….But also it’s a good thing Becky is nearby. She’s being a little cringe right now but her closet destroying power should keep Jennifer’s denial in a state of check.
She *is* like a closet-smashing wrecking ball, isn’t she? I still remember when she was breaking into her house, and paused to holler “HEY EVERYBODY, I’M GAY!!!” into the neighborhood. :3
🎶 “She came out like a wrecking ball.” 🎵
I liked it better when Billie and Ruth were together and the flirting and fighting were the same thing.
Also, oh yes just a phase that got you to give up a life crippling alcohol addiction. Look I’d be more convinced that whatever spark between those two had died out if they just exchanged hellos and then ignored each other for the rest of the class…You know instead of this passion filled argument that they usually have in every other lovers spat of theirs.
Eh, I know people who broke up in college and couldn’t share classes afterwards. Sometimes, Hate is hate.
Sometimes hate and anger are used to keep the real feelings at bay. In this case Jennifer probably hopes forever. JB:Doomed to failure.
Anger leads to hate. Hate, to suffering.
“I’m fine. Shut your PHASE.”
“That’s good to-”
“Your PHASE!”
“But–”
“PHASE! PHAAAAAAAAAAASE!”
You heard her. “Phase.”
As screwed up as Jennifer is, Becky is almost looking worse for trying to encourage these two renew their toxic relationship because she thinks this is cute. I hope it’s just that Becky is still so excited about being out that she can’t see past “lesbians: YAY!” as opposed to her thinking that this is healthy.
It’s also rather obnoxious to insert herself into their discussion.
I really want to like Becky, but she makes is difficult sometimes.
There’s also Joyce thinking Jacob and Sarah should be together because they’re both black.
Religious homeschooling, Hoo boy.
I never got that before and now I can’t unthink it.
You don’t UNDERSTAND, in her worldview (which was similar to Joyce’s old one) love fixes everything forever! They’ll get back together and get married (and then have sex) and have children and be a perfect family! You’ll see.
Oh right, yeah, I was thinking Becky naivete but I forgot to view it entirely through the lens of season one Joyce naivete.
She’s still obnoxious but it does make perfect sense in a still-deeply-internalized-fundie-views-of-relationships way.
YES!
Hopefully we’ll see Becky move past that toxic narrative in a similar way as Joyce has had to, though she might be more resistant to it for longer because of her likely narratives about her own life where her love for first Joyce and now Dina probably does feel like it has saved her from her former life.
But yeah, she’s coming from a perspective of being raised by toxic narratives of fundamentalist roles and essentially not great romantic comedies for her only real understanding of love and positive relationships and that can be a real mess to unlearn.
To be fair, in this scenario Billingsworth and Lessick are inserting their argument in a functionally public space. It may be impolite for Becky to inject, but it’s impolite for B&L to be going at it here in class as well.
Aw, honey. 🙁
Straight with the stereotypical bihaircut lol
I don’t like any of this. Billie and Ruth were crazy toxic and Becky trying to push em back together is gross. Don’t ship real people dude. (Yes I know. I mean real to themselves)
This makes me wonder about just how toxic the McIntire’s marriage was prior to Becky’s mom committing suicide. I cannot imagine what could possibly make Becky think this is a romantic interaction.
Early Joyce thought The Parent Trap was totally romantic and should be emulated with Joe’s parents in real life. Becky was raised in the same type of environment.
It’s a good thing they’re having this issue in Gender Studies. Maybe Leslie can set them straight.
Actually, I wonder if Danny and/or Drew will be here. Bisexual guys represent!
I want Danny to walk in with dual ukes strapped across his back. Both arms with sharpie sleeve tattoos. Two hats.
One hat on top of the other hat, I assume?
Two tiny hats, precariously balanced on either side, barely hanging onto one ear each.
They have silly faces painted on them. with acrylic.
One is a fez, the other a fedora.
The issue is that Jennifer apparently is trying hard to be straight rather than honestly saying she’s bi. (I mean, I guess it might actually have been a phase, but I don’t trust people who say that, especially so soon after their break-up.)
“Set them straight”
No no, Jennifer telling herself she’s straight is the problem!
I am like… genuinely worried Billy is taking on a homophobic streak, what with her emphasis on “BOYFRIEND” last comic and assistance that her thing with Ruth was a “weird phase”.
Maybe I’m just self-conscious because I’m shaped like Billy and named Ruth, and my wife is shaped a bit like Ruth, but not named Billy. Or Jennefer. And our personalities are nothing like theirs. Still, maybe that’s giving me hangups.
It’s homphobic in the bi-erasure, but that’s not a NEW streak for Jennifer.
It’s internalised biphobia she has always been shown to have. It’s why even with Ruth, she was mostly interested in going places with ‘hot guys’ as it is hard for her to acknowledge her relationships with not guys as being as ‘real’.
“Not like the moon! Not like my periods, either! Although it would be a pretty sick burn to tell Ruth that dating her was about as pleasant as one of those. Hmm.”
Also, good God but Becky is gorgeous in panel 3.
Once again Becky is coming off as obnoxious and really unlikeable but more importantly is Ruth breaking the forth wall in the last panel?
No, she’s just looking away from Billie because Becky commented on them getting back together.
You’re probably right dammit
That or she just noticed someone approaching.
That was my thought – who?
A moment of silence for Ruth, Listening To Your Same-Sex Ex Talk About Their Relationship With Their New Hetero Partner SUCKS, even without the codependent plane crash of a past and the implicit bi/homophobia.
Wow i’m impressed that Billie has grasped the “knowing the difference between fighting and flirting” and yet somehow managed to imply that a hetero relationship is the “correct” kind of relationship. And also be really pleased with herself about dating a guy whom we’ve only ever seen being a dick.
When you think you’re getting healthier, but just going down another hole…
She’s wrong on both counts. For those two, fighting HAS always been flirting.
God dammit, Becky. Go get over yourself and maybe “smooch” your own girlfriend?
There’s really no difference between this and Joe chanting “Just make out”.
There’s really no difference between this and many commenters chanting “Just make out”.
Now that we’ve reached the punch line, I wonder which of them Ruth should punch.
I just want her to say something like “you’re right, taking this class with you was a mistake…”
then stare _right_ at becky and leave
I hope the fact that Billie’s hair forms a point in the middle of her forehead like that means that she’s growing out a devilock, Misfits-style.
Ohhhhhh this is why their breakup seemed unhealthy.
Becky. Stop.
Yay, a Boyfriend who can get gunned down or arrested at any moment.
Do they… know that Asher got half the cast kidnapped three months ago? Did I miss that reveal? Or is everyone just kinda fine with it?
I don’t think anyone knows.
He did?? How did I miss this? I dont really understand Ashers involvement in that whole thing
Asher’s involvement was pulling the fire alarm, and getting Blaine killed in the end.
Both shown by him sending or receiving a text after the event saying ‘it’s done’, both with ambiguous other participants – after the same line was used for killing Blaine, there was some speculation he HADN’T sent the first one to Blaine after all but to Gramps or perhaps Lester (in a ‘we can’t stop the kidnapping without his death being hella suspicious, but he blackmailed the boss’s grandkid so he’s gonna die for that regardless’ way,) though Blaine is still probably the most likely option.
My guess is that Asher said nothing about the blackmail, but warned Gramps at some point that one of his stooges was causing trouble on campus that was likely to go public if he wasn’t silenced. May have waited until he was caught so that he could be silenced quickly without any chance to reveal his blackmail info.
Becky shows all her teeth while simultaneously biting her lip.
This bugs me.
She bit her lip before, here I think she’s grinning so hard her lips are curled in against her teeth. I mean, you physically can not bite your lip while showing the teeth behind it. Not without the lip being physically transparent.
god Billie reeks of internalized homo/biphobia…
She is a mess of a kid. I imagine she is trying to put her life together and so grabs for things that feel “normal”.
Each morning I get up I die a little
Can barely stand on my feet
Take a look at DoA and cry
Lord, what you’re doing to me
I have spent all my years in following you
But I just can’t get no relief, Lord!
Somebody, ooh somebody
Can anybody bring back “Billie loves Ruth”?
—
Oh, never mind me, a story needs to be free. And some stories and relationships just can’t work. I am going to trust the story. But this broke my stupid heart a little, and I feel it every morning when the update arrives.
Let me help.
https://itswalky.tumblr.com/image/96065591507
Yeah. I’ve been fascinated by these two since Roomies. They were easily my favourite characters back then. But Ruth died and was dead for so many years. During this time it was revealed that they had had a brief fling in college.
Then they came back, both alive, started a relationship. On poisoned ground, yes, but in another universe Joe and Rachel, Joyce and Walky, Leslie and Robin, Mike and Amber were all relationships that were unlikely to succeed, but did. Around the time Ruth and Billie started their erratic courtship, my wife and I divorced after 31 years. My hopes for Ruth and Billie were paired in my mind with my hopes for myself.
And now that was just a phase. And Billie isn’t even Billie any more.
I do know that I’m being stupid and ridiculous, and taking this way out of proportion. It’s only a comic.
“That’s no moon. It’s a space station.”
It’s only a paper moon, sailing over a cardboard sea,…
So Jennifer is getting some flack for saying it’s a phase and whatnot but she should get some leeway
While she messed around in high school she clearly didn’t think it a big deal so her only “real” (in her opinion) lesbian experience is with Ruth
Which means her experience of lesbianism is of being harassed physically, emotionally and sexually and then entering into a suicide pact
I think that’s mess anyone up for a bit so given all that plus shes still only a teenager I dont think its unreasonable to cut her some slack
Maybe this course will be what she needs to understand her experiences
Also more Joe and Joyce please
Yeah her life up until now was quite a mess, she is trying to stick to “Normal, Good Girl” persona right now to start making sense of her life… which is incredibly ironic considering her choice of boyfriend.
But the reason she didn’t think her relationship with Alice in high school was a big deal was also tied into her biphobia. This attitude doesn’t come from a bad relationship with Ruth. It was there from the start, in a slightly different form.
Now it’s apparently a “phase” that she’s done with rather than just “no big deal. Everyone likes girls sometimes. I’m normal.” There’s not really a lot of difference there.
I’m starting to wonder how bad her therapist was.
Unless her therapist was so bad they should have their license revoked, I don’t think this is the therapists doing. No reputable therapist would tell Ms. Billingsworth she’s “done therapy” in three months (or likely ever). Far more likely is that our young protagonist bailed on therapy when she didn’t like the direction it was going / what she was learning about herself.
But no mistake, there are some mind-boglingly horrible therapists and doctors out there, stranger than you would likely imagine. That is fortunately the exception, not the norm.
But for a likely-overworked campus therapist, because there are rarely enough of those on a large campus for the student population that need support, those odds get way higher. I don’t think IU does what some other schools its size do and cap the number of sessions you can have with campus therapy per semester (yes, really, this works as terribly as you’d think,) but there are a lot of ways if she was seeing a school one that they could have seriously let her down.
I feel like Willis is basically doing a subversion of that stupid old “lesbians are just straight women who were in a bad straight relationship and can be turned back to ‘normal’ by a good one” trope.
If I understand you, agreed. He is having Billingsworth go through that, likely both for cultural awareness/relevance (because people seem to actually think that way) and because it deserves to be confronted and is a reasonable source of realistic (natural) drama. Doesn’t require yaeds (yet another evil dad) or other external source of strife.
I like the choice to go with “Billingsworth”, like she’s an Edwardian butler.
Good god, Becky’s face in the first panel is the stuff nightmares are made of.
oh . . . it’s gonna get ugly
The moon is a harsh mistress.
I think all of this is being misinterpreted.
This about Jennifer being in denial about her lycanthropy infection.
Les-canthropy? She only goes gay when she sees a full moon? Good god! Keep her away from tik-tok! The fall-out could be catastrophic.
I think bisexual lycanthropes was a different Slipshine story.
OT: Does anyone know why Questionable Content is offline?
It’s up for me, but it DID take abnormally long to load.
Hannelore accidentally took out the server when she was channeling sayan into Roko’s tea.
That was probably it. Now she‘s taken herself out with the effort, the server works again.
Well then, Jennifer, if you are happy with your current relationship, then seeing your ex should be no problem. Right?
Fundy upbringing not helpful to understanding boundaries, part 500 or so
She is basically early Joyce. Give her time.
Ruthless isn’t denying any of it.
Ok, stop that now Becky
As messed up as Billie could be I think I still liked her more than Jennifer
Ruth still hope for It. But to be sincere. One like Billie is better to lost than to found.
It’s been a while and I can’t promise I’ll be here regularly as I’m generally a mess these days because of losing my partner in the last year, but I figured I’d roll out an oldie and do a Comic Reaction.
Panel 1: Oh Becky, no. Like I get it, it’s romantic comedy cliches, which is about 50% of her learned ideas about love. The bickering couple and especially the pair who have a big breakup but their Love TM is so strong it pulls them back together. It’s Ross and Rachel from Friends writ large. And the only problem is that stuff isn’t real and often harmful. Breakups often happen for a reason and while exes can reunite, it’s way more likely to break again for similar reasons than end in the happily ever after a lot of fiction depicts. Often because the exes are following fiction rather than using the perspective of distance, growth, and time allowing them to grow into new sorts of people that are more compatible than they were.
And for Becky who is in that drunk giddy phase of baby gay energy and for whom Jennifer and Ruth was I believe her first real example of a queer relationship and I suspect a pairing she clung to as an example of queer love being a possibility that could just be and be normal without the angry denials and parental badness. So she’s more likely to cling on to that image she had rather than the reality of what these two exes need to heal apart from each other.
Panel 2: Good on Jennifer here. Noting that fighting and flirting aren’t the same thing is a very good thing and especially for her because yeah, that aspect of her and Ruth’s relationship where drag-down knockout verbal brawls were seen as essentially foreplay was HELLA toxic.
It just sucks for her, because we have the privilege of a wandering camera and thus know what she is likely being kept in the dark about, which is that Asher is an operative for a literal crime syndicate that is responsible for the death of one of the main cast and that he is indirectly involved in the incident that led to the kidnapping of half the main cast.
When that all drops, the fallout is not going to be good for Jennifer and whatever strides she has made (and yeah, I’ll note that here. Like I’m going to be real disappointed in her in later panels, but she has made some improvements overall in her stability that should be noted and celebrated even if they are being held together by a toxic sludge of self-denial and a refusal to continue the work of working on herself because she thinks she is “fixed now”).
Panel 3: Again, I get it. Becky was raised by romantic comedies and probably has an unhealthy attachment to the idea of these two in particular being soulmates because this was the first queer relationship of her age group she really got to see.
But still, this is such a fucked thing to say to any pair of exes. Like even if there were still sexual tension or romantic feelings, relationships end for real reasons for the most part and treating it like it’s inevitable that that will be undone any day now is just disrespectful to that and can poke on some very open wounds especially if that breakup is relatively fresh.
Panel 4: Oof. Yeah. I said it for Becky and I’ll say it for Jennifer. I get it. I really do. There are so many toxic ready made narratives pushed onto bi people, especially young bi people in college. Narratives about “lesbians until graduation”, ways of treating bi people as being the sexuality of their current relationship, and so much bullshit historical revision of these things just being “the sowing of wild oats” and other such nonsense. Even toxic bullshit about how queer relationships are an immature relationship and the stability of a “straight” relationship being a sign of “growing up”.
It’s force-fed through culture and reinforced by parents and Jennifer has already been seen to be prey to these narratives, discounting the reality and validity of her earlier sapphic connections in high school and being in denial of her own mental state and needs with regards to recovery, often treating things like therapy with suspicion as if they mark her as “bad”.
And I’m also mostly sad about it because this shit is deeply damaging for bi people trapped in it. This internalized biphobia can make it hard for the person to fully love themselves and build fully healthy relationships where their whole self can be loved for who they are no matter who their current partner is.
Panel 5: Becky is an ass here, but my Bob do I fucking love this answer to the bullshit “phase” concept, because yeah, phases are parts of fucking cycles not something that happens once and then never happens again.
I also love it for Becky’s answer because it shows again her love of science poking through as this is exactly the kinda of super nerdy shit sciencey folks joke about.
Plus, as I noted above, the whole “phase” concept with regards to queerness can happily die in a fire for how much real damage it has done to bisexual people over the last however many decades it has been in active rotation.
Oh additional thought. Panel 3 Becky is additionally cruel because well, I’m not fully sure Ruth IS actually over her feelings for Jennifer so that’s got to feel like a red hot poker to her soul because Ruth does seem to be well aware in a way that their relationship is over and very unlikely to ever come back (and if it did, it would have to involve the two of them becoming very different people to who they were through separate therapy and growth and those future versions of themselves happening to be compatible enough).
Hi Cerberus. So sorry to hear about your partner.
I agree that Becky is far too caught up in fairy tale myths about relationships.
My other take on this is that she is far too quick to assume she knows all about J & R and their relationship, and that she is on close enough terms to give them advice about it. She isn’t.
Let people make their own decisions about their own lives. Especially when you know very little about them. Which for Becky is everyone except for Joyce and Dina.
Thank you.
And absolutely. Which also fits into both her viewing of Ruth and Jennifer as well as her overall “I use humor to keep from breaking down and crying” energy. She wants to be the jocular jokester to everyone and she feels more connected to Jennifer and Ruth than she actually is because she views their former relationship in such hyperfocused light.
She also feels connected to Jennifer because she borrowed her bed and because she missed the suicidal signs.
She also may well know more about the breakup than we do, which is part of why I’m reserving judgement here. Relationships usually end for real reasons, but not always and we don’t know about this one.
Cerberus! Good to see you again. Sorry to hear about your partner. 8(
I feel like bi-folk face an extra hurdle that facilitates bi-erasure, and that is that most fiction tends to take place over relatively short time periods, so a bi character tends to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender (and is therefore seen as “straight”), someone of the same gender (and is therefore seen as “gay”), or they engage in multiple relationships over a short time period which tends to be depicted as either “emotionally immature” or “slut”. Even if another relationship is mentioned with a different gender than the one they end up staying with, the usual result is that it tends to be seen as the “phase” thing (“oh, he ended up staying with him and not her because he was actually gay all along”).
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about how that part of the framing of fiction is used to reinforce those cultural erasures.
It’s hard to avoid. Focus on a romantic triangle might work – though even there there’s a risk of the “phase” idea kicking in once it resolves.
maybe a polycule?
But then you’re adding in different identities and playing into other bi-tropes.
Welcome back Cerb! We miss your insightful discourses when you’re gone, but it’s just a webcomic, you gotta be where you need to be. Grieving isn’t “just a phase”, either. Take the time you need.
Always good to see you, and hear your insights. Very sorry to hear about your partner. 🙁 Best wishes to you.
*hugs*
Good to see you again, take your time, and I am so sorry to hear about your partner.
I always love your insights here. I definitely agree that Becky’s investment in Ruth/Jennifer is in part because they were one of the first she saw. (There’s also Grace/Mandy/Sierra/possibly Agatha?, but I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s different in Becky’s mind because it’s a polycule and she still ascribes to the ‘marriage is between TWO people, and marriage is the MOST legitimate form of relationship’ mindset. That said, she hasn’t brought up any biphobia since the Patreon strip where Sierra explained she was pan, way back… though watch as I say that and tomorrow she does… so it’s possible she has done some unpacking there.)
I definitely agree that Jennifer has made some genuine progress, and that I’d like her to keep it. Even if I’m not 100% on all the changes being a genuinely better state as opposed to some of them being her reinvention thing, she’s clearly much less depressed and much more capable of basic social interactions – she’s not judging Lucy for being a nerd anymore, it’s great! If Asher weren’t still actively embroiled in mob shit, I think so far that relationship IS promising (from what little we’ve seen, at least,) but… well, as you said, we the readers know he is. That one’s gonna be interesting to see dissolve. And also probably quite painful. (I can’t WAIT.)
I’m so sorry to hear about your partner, but it’s cool that you’re back! Even if it’s only sometimes ❤
I hadn’t even considered Becky’s motivations beyond how she and Joyce are cut from the same cloth, but you’ve totally nailed it. She even first found out about Billie and Ruth when Ruth had been hospitalized, so she’s got all kinds of personal reasons to have an unhealthy investment in their relationship
And I can definitely sympathize with her excessive baby gay energy. I just figured out I’m trans and a lesbian myself only a couple months back (now on month 2 of HRT, WOO), so I’ve been a bundle of babby gay nonsense myself
I’m so happy for you! Realizing new things about yourself can be emotionally intense but very exciting. Congrats on the HRT. <3
being a girl rules pretty hard ^_^
Yes it does!
If I had not seen and said this before, congrats! (December was already so very, very long ago.)
I’m sorry to hear about your partner, Cerberus. I’m glad to see you back and glad to hear you’re taking as much care of yourself as you can. Appropriate gesture of support and hugs if wanted.
I think a lot of this makes a lot of sense. Becky is being a brat, but she’s also got lots of emotional reasons to cling to Jennifer and Ruth. She probably is still attached to Jennifer for letting her use her bed and the suicidal state she and Ruth were in, they’re her first F/F couple in her peer group and I would not be surprised if Becky considers them her friends since they’re in the same social group.
As for Jennifer and Asher……well, I think Sal already has her suspicions so I’m sure we’ll see that house of cards addressed soon enough.
Sending love, support and hopes for better times your way Cerberus.
It’s so, so good to see you again, Cerberus. I came back in August myself and the commentariat hasn’t been the same without you.
I’m sorry about your partner. It must be devastating, and I hope it offers some kind of small comfort that we all love you.
It is always a pleasure to see your comments even if they are rare. I wish you well on recovering from real life events and that your mental health finds consistent stability.
Yay, Cerberus!
Good vibes and warm fuzzies!
This isn’t over. Now comes a gender studies class where this will end up being discussed.
OF COURSE!
that was supposed to have a </bison> at the end of it, but I messed up the tags.
…unless…?
The moon, huh?
I’VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT, ASHER MCWHATSISNAME IS A BONGO-ASS MOTHERFUDGER
“One of these days, Becky! One of these days! Bang! Zoom! Straight to the moon!”
I adore Becky, but she really is being kinda rude here. On the other hand, her flaws make her a more well-rounded character, which is one of the things I love about her, so…
HELL YEAH BECKY GRAVATAR!
Becky has always been very pushy for Jennifer to be who Becky wants her to be. Though that might be exaggerated by us only seeing them interact a few critical times over many of our Earth years.
Book 11: Not like the Moon!
The idea that a relationship will be stable because it’s with a boyfriend is so very College Mythology of Self. All those dumbass things we tell ourselves about what life is, will be, should be…
Examine them, folks. Don’t wait. Leaving them unexamined will make you So Miserable.
Intensely bothered that it was “a phase” and hoping that Billie will eventually acknowledge her sexuality as something other than straight.
She did briefly while she was openly dating Ruth. She seems to have regressed.
I think this was about as close as she got:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/real-2/
Then she almost immediately regressed back to her holding pattern:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/fancy/
Don’t misnoun people, DW.
Misnoun?
I believe misanthropope is referring to the alt text still calling her “Billie”.
Looks like a lot of commenters have been calling her Billie today. Maybe it’s because the last couple days have been classic Billie shit. Her attempted personality reboots never stick, her past always climbs out of the box she stuffs it in and catches back up to her.
“if it quacks like a Billie…”
The author knows what to call their characters I think.
this has very strong ‘billie is in heavy denial about not being straight’ vibes
Always has been.
Billie’s insisting she’d straight, but her hair is in the bisexual bob.
Stable relationship? With Asher?
Yeah, don’t see it.
Anybody else setting a 29 day timer from this comic?
I’m expecting a kiss
Real-life, or in-universe? Remember, in-universe it’s one chapter per day.
To alt text, I don’t know if Billie’s line alone is enough, but Ruth’s embarrassed side glance at the whole situation cinches it.