She’s seen her mother kill herself, been nearly kidnapped with intent to be killed by her homicidal father TWICE…at this point taking the lord’s name in vain is next to not giving a crap at all in her book
I suspect Dina would be rationally open to experimenting with something poly if the idea was run by her and she thought it through logically, but would be feral-possessive otherwise.
yes this exactly. i do not want to see dina lose her girlfriend in this. however, we already have one polycule, and you know what’s better than one background polycule? ^_^
I’m pretty sure that Becky isn’t going to go from girlfriends with Dina to lovers with Dorothy. I mean, try to think clearly here: Becky is the one holding back on the “pre-marital hanky panky,” not Dina. And Dorothy appears to be one of the few straight members of this ensemble.
Different people react differently to stimulus. A number of people on here have commented about disliking the air puffs. I don’t think anyone’s being a whiny baby.
Normally, you’d close or shield your eyes on a windy day, or at least blink regularly.
Most operators of that machine seem to be waiting patiently for you to keep your eye open for what feels like a full minute before they hit the button.
In addition to everyone else’s points: on a windy day I have literal windshields in the form of glasses in front of my eyes. Not so much with the Puff Machine of Doom(TM). 😛
Dorothy is the one convincing Joyce to do this. She has no ability to make Joyce do anything. On the other hand, this is Dorothy managing Becky. Yet another example of the fact that manipulative and evil are two unrelated qualities.
This is getting Becky to see it’s in Joyce’s best interests, and that Becky plays a unique, valuable, appreciated role in Joyce’s life that Dorothy can’t (and wouldn’t try to) replace. I’m not sure if it’s so much manipulative as excellent (and empathetic) people management…
If you view Dorothy as being so administrative or bureaucratic because she is trying to make her world neat and orderly for her own selfish pleasure, yes, you could paint her as manipulative.
If you weren’t trying to outgun Ayn Rand in cynicism, no. What I can’t parse is why people want Dorothy to be more heavily flawed like the other characters when she works best as a straight man to characters like Becky and Joyce.
Personally, I always prefer a character who has an arc and eventually hits walls they can’t simply jump over, and Dorothy’s very much a main one. But it’s also a thing that Dorothy DOES have flaws that have only gotten minimal narrative attention so far, or haven’t quite been focused in on as flaws – the overstudying arc, for instance, makes it very clear that Dorothy DOESN’T have an appropriate work-relaxation balance, and that is a genuine issue that can cause lasting physical harm. Its resolution wasn’t really because Dorothy learned she had overextended and needed to rest more, but because she broke up with Walky and then finished her extra credit – narratively unsatisfying and kind of iffy if there’s no followup because it reads a bit ‘ambitious women can’t have relationships’, and I don’t think the Walky tutoring alone was what pushed her over the edge. (Dorothy herself acknowledges that she’d taken on more volunteer work than she could balance.) Now, I DON’T think that was the resolution of that character point, but you can kind of see where the issues are if ‘sure Dorothy pushes herself to the point where she neglects food and sleep and broke up with a boyfriend who provided a relaxation outlet, but she got into Yale so none of that’s REALLY a bad thing’ were actually the ultimate outcome there.
Similarly, we have seen Dorothy have a goalpost-moving issue in her relationship with Walky (‘it’s purely casual’/‘okay it’s a relationship but not, like, a serious one’/‘I love you’ and the pause-that-basically-wasn’t.) I don’t think that was manipulative, or intentional boundary-pushing on her part, but it was a genuine flaw with the relationship and Dorothy’s actions in it. Not an unforgiveable one, but a flaw nonetheless. (I’m willing to put the Danny breakup as ‘Dorothy was trying to let him down gently for months and he could not take the hint’ and a mutual failure, but that still should have been a much firmer breakup much sooner.)
We’re also seeing some similar things this arc that Dorothy has some benevolent boundary-disrespecting in the name of Mom Friend. Which, yes, Joyce objectively needed an eye appointment and was absurdly childish in her fear of it, but was still a questionable call. (The fact that Dorothy brought the agoraphobia aspect up to Becky and not Joyce herself, for instance, feels a bit patronizing the more I think about it.) Again, not unforgiveable, and because it’s Joyce I do see where Dorothy would find it the best option, but still one of those things she does need to learn is over the line at some point. Fortunately, it’s college! I think her perceptiveness here also kind of illustrates why it weirded people out in the replacement RA storyline, as well – Dorothy picks up A LOT about people naturally, which is fine, but if she brings it up without interacting with them a lot or suggests a solution to their problem unsolicited, that feels less like ‘Dorothy’s a good friend’ and more invasive.
In short, Dorothy’s just as flawed as the rest of the main cast but less consistently acknowledged as flawed, and character development is interesting so some of us want said flaws addressed. (I also want Dorothy to eventually lose her temper over Becky as much for Becky’s development as Dorothy’s – eventually she’s got to realize the goofball ‘nemesis’ thing isn’t particularly funny to anyone but her, and can be genuinely harmful.)
I mean, what little I’ve read of How to Win Friends and Influence People seemed to mainly rely on manipulating people in a nice way. And it seems like the kind of book Dorothy would read.
you got the same interpretation that I got, she “got” Becky there even if Becky doesn’t want to admit it. it’s a compliment and shows how much Dorothy actually understands her
Let’s try this again.
I love that even Becky thinks Joyce is being a wimp here. Come on Joyce, you’re a big girl, you can handle a small puff of air into your eye.
Substitution, mass confusion,
Clouds inside your head
Involving all my energies,
Until you visited
With your eyes of porcelain and of blue,
They shock me into sense
You think you’re so illustrious,
You call yourself intense–The Cars
I laughed so hard at Becky’s final line. It’s one that would only be mildly funny without the connection to these characters that’s been built up, and that’s why I love this comic so much.
D’aw. Becky putting into words her secret fears that Dorothy really is the better friend, while Dorothy tacitly reassures her that there are things only Becky can do,, is totes adorbs.
It’s really refreshing, considering how contentious their relationship often is. Well, one-sidedly contentious, at least.
Change your email how? If you’re using a completely different email address, then yeah, it needs to be approved before you’re free to comment with it. But, once a comment has been cleared for posting, you should be able to use it.
If you use G-mail there used to be an option to use yourname.n@gmail.com with n any number and it would still go through as a valid addy and mail sent to the addy would show in your inbox or you could use a filter to send it to a specific folder.
I’m not gonna try the gravatar roulette anymore now that I have my Twilight Sparkle avatar, but in the past doing grav roulette too much too fast caused me to be unable to post comments for a while. So you might want to be careful how you do the grav roulette.
Ohgodfinally. I could write an essay on why this strip is such a relief but… Yeah. Thank you, Willis. Dorothy is a saint and I’m glad that for once, Becky #Understood.
Those watery eyes in panel three are really getting to me, in response to the “you are more of what Joyce needs in this particular way.” I hope Becky learns to share custody.
Wait. If Dorothy is like a mom to Joyce, and Becky is like a mom to Joyce, then Dorothy and Becky are both Joyce’s moms???
For that matter, what would the other cast member alignments be?
I know there are horrid limitations to the alignment chart, especially when it comes to morals v ethics, and sources of authority, but definitely fun to think about.
Well, I would say Walky is ChN, Toe Dad is obvs LE but believes he’s LG, Hammer Dad in motorcycle armor is ChE, Booster is I’m leaning to ChN or NN until more facts are in evidence. Lucy is either ChG or NG, again I’ll need more facts. The cops guarding Hammer Dad are LE or NE, the dudebros hired by Hammer Dad are NE to LE. And I just don’t feel like trying to remember who the characters are bad enough to finish the list, because remembering names and faces is literally painful for me.
As I understand it:
Joyce – Neutral Good
Dorothy – Lawful Good
Becky – Chaotic Good
Walky – Chaotic Neutral
Sarah – Lawful Neutral
Sal – True Neutral
Amber – True Neutral
Amazi-Girl – Chaotic Good
Dina – Neutral Good
Ruth – Chaotic Neutral
Jennifer – True Neutral
Lucy – Neutral or Lawful Good
Joe – Chaotic Neutral
Danny – True Neutral
Robin – Chaotic Neutral
Leslie – Neutral Good
Roz – Chaotic Good
Booster – Chaotic or True Neutral
Carla – Chaotic Neutral
Malaya – True Neutral
Hard calls: Ross (LN, or maybe LE), Carla (CN or CG), Ruth (was NE, now TN or NG), Clint (LN or LE), Chloe (not evil, not chaotic), Billie (TN or CN), Malaya (CN or CE), Dina (Confused-Good), Robin (was CE, MAYBE has changed to CN), Leslie (LG or NG), Joe (TN, or MAYBE NE), Danny (LG or LN, depending on how self absorbed he’s acting today), Ethan (TN or NG), Rachel (LG or LN), Jocelyne (some good), Mandy and Grace (CG: Chorus, Greek), Linda (LN or LE), Roz (non-evil), Sierra (some good), Keener Parents (some good), Siegel parents (LE or LN), Warner parents (some good), Richard (TN or NE), Sayid (some good), Alex (non-evil), Asher (non-lawful, non-good)
I mean, plenty of Paladins walk around with swords all day… Sometimes you gotta be prepared to Lawfully Protect your friends from Harm.
One could also say that she’s so Lawfully Good savvy that she’s willing to protect innocent Joyce from people who want to Break the Law. Just with the more timely approved Bat than a Sword.
(Note: the following is written purely for the purpose of humor, and in no way reflects anything approaching the author’s true beliefs)
Good-aligned? But all three characters are obviously evil!
Dorothy wishes the join the ranks of the hated establishment, to force her vision of a “better world” into law, to shackle and enslave the populace so that they may “enjoy a better standard of living”. What else could that be but pure evil?
Becky betrayed her benefactor by undermining her campaign, so that she’d be cast out and forced to live on the streets, just because she happened to be the antithesis of everything that Becky believed in, and really should have known better. Again, evil!
And Joyce? Why, just look at how naive and innocent she is! And what else is naive and innocent? That’s right, babies. And as any parent knows, there is nothing more casually evil than babies. By obvious extension, she is clearly the most evil one of them all!
I mean, they even follow the classic witch’s archetype – Dorothy, the wise crone, Becky, the worldly mother, and Joyce, the innocent maiden. The ages might not reflect that, but their personalities are obviously a deliberate reference for those who can see through their “good” facade!
(Apologies in advance to those who have had to suffer through more sincerely frustrating alignment arguments.)
My eldest was very upset when I tried to argue that my supervillain OC in her game where she was the superhero genuinely wanted to make the place and THAT was why I was trying to take over the world, and I saw HER as the villain for thwarting me… Apparently that sort of rationale is mean when your kid is 5 or 6 LOLOLOL (this is why I was the villain, isn’t it?)
Joyce has a million rules about food touching, wouldn’t swear for the longest time even when people offered to pay her, and embraces the most puritan of sexual mores. Her one indiscretion with Jacob notwithstanding, she is so very very lawful.
Yeah, and if you blink, they gotta do it again. It’s hard not to blink. It startles the crap out of you like the biscuit can does. She’s not used to it either.
There’s being startled and there’s being overdramatic. She was startled the first time, now she’s just being over the top overdramatic. It’s ridiculously bad even for neurotic Joyce.
Not everyone can cope with the same things you can easily. Some people have stated in the comment section that they get startled every single time too and someone made a comment that PTSD tends to make it easier to be startled (which Joyce may or may not have).
Some people can get used to it, some people can’t, because you can’t control if you’re going to get startled or flinch and for someone neurotic like Joyce, the anticipation will be messing her up over and over and over again because it gives time for her anxiety to build up again each time, making her tense and more prone to being startled/flinching again.
We haven’t seen things longterm because of the timescale, but I definitely wouldn’t be shocked if Joyce does have PTSD given she was showing short-term trauma responses. (The agoraphobia mentioned a few days ago, and being triggered by the hymn at church and the ‘Jesus died for us’ line.) On the one hand, the agoraphobia cleared up after her particular assaulter was stabbed within an inch of his life, but the Ross trauma was immediately compounded by the congregation echoing him in general so I doubt his death had the same relief factor (besides the sheer ‘literally watched him die’-ness. I wouldn’t be shocked if witnessing the stabbing would have had a slightly more conflicted psychological impact the way Dorothy did.)
The machine that sticks needles in your eye, while blowing air in your eyes, while cutting onions, and playing the movie Grave of the Fireflies, all Clockwork Orange style where you can’t blink?
I don’t think that Dorothy could have done more to build bridges with Becky than to assure her that she’s willing to share Joyce with her. That was Becky’s fear after all: That she was losing Joyce to Dorothy.
Meanwhile, Becky is learning just how neurotic and crippled by anxiety Joyce really is at the moment.
I mean, she has been for some time, and this is as much a reflex thing as anything (I know it’s at most unpleasant but keeping your eye open for it all is tricky,) but yeah I don’t think Becky had quite recognized how debilitating Joyce’s anxieties were getting. She was this terrified of an eye exam (which I think Becky is starting to recognize is necessary, especially with Dorothy’s point about seeing people with the crowds) that is, in fact, completely benign because it’s a potential change and Joyce Cannot Handle anymore right now, whatsoever.
Yep, same. Also I think even someone unsullied by the internet (which we know Becky isn’t anyway) could fill in the blanks easily that it’s probably something to do with generally having good intentions and…well being chaotic/ignoring rules sometimes.
I’m So pleased, Willis did such a good job with the smile on Joyce’s face. That is now in my Canon as the Joy of Knowing True Friendship. If Dina ever smiles at Becky like that, I’d bet Becky would sew their tops together at the shoulders, to be inseparable.
Honestly, I’m surprised that Becky is willing to ‘take the Lord’s name in vain’, as commonly considered by American churches. (Using God or Jesus as an exclamation of emotion in a non-spiritual situation.)
Even if Becky is unfamiliar with DnD, she’s very familiar with memes. It was literally her job.
She’s most likely an optometrist, because she’s performing an eye exam and can prescribe corrective lenses.
Opticians are not doctors, but they’re trained to measure the face and fit lenses and frames. They’re like the dental technicians of eye stuff.
Ophthalmologists are medical doctors who specialize in and can perform surgery on the eyes, in addition to what an optometrist can do. It’s a medical specialty, like dental surgery or osteology.
(Headcanon still says her name is Dr. Eileen Seymour, OD.)
Based on other comments the air puff device seems pretty common but despite going to an optometrist for almost 2 decades i don’t recall ever getting air puffed at my eye.
It’s a glaucoma test, but apparently not necessarily standard – or at least, other options are still being used frequently enough. So if you don’t have a family history of glaucoma and/or your optometrist uses a different test, it’s totally possible.
Then you probably got the other glaucoma check at some point, where they anesthetize your eye and press a probe onto your cornea to measure intraocular pressure.
I love how she is all ready to die on this hill when she see’s what Joyce is actually going through and then it’s all “come on, REALLY? I totally wasted my righteous indignation…”
Is it not possible for someone to physically hold their own eye open, with their fingers, for this test? Seems like it would be a simple enough solution. Just checked right now- one fingertip on each eyelid, and use that to slide the eyelids further open than normal. Not uncomfortable on its own, my fingers aren’t directly on my eyeball or on the underside of the eyelid, and I can’t blink. Won’t make the air less unpleasant, but you can’t blink on it that way.
The purpose of this test is to measure the pressure inside the eye (by measuring how much the surface of the eye deflects in response to the puff). Holding your eyelids like that is likely to apply pressure to the eye, thus giving a false reading.
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“JOYCE, I’M HERE FOR YA, YA ENORMOUS BABY”
“NOTHIN’ CAN BREAK THE BONDS OF FRIENDSHIP, EVEN ONE OF US BEIN’ A TOTAL WUSS!”
“I’ll stand here and cluck like a chicken to support you!”
XD Becky, you’ve known her all her life. I dunno what you expected.
DAMMIT. Once again, Booster, I adore you, but you are not whom I seek.
I’m sure Booster had heard that before.
I see Becky has no problem with taking the Lord’s name in vain.
May not count in their church. Lots only consider ‘goddammit’ to be such.
I always saw it as a asking God for strength or like Jesus Christ look at your ward or whatever.
She’s seen her mother kill herself, been nearly kidnapped with intent to be killed by her homicidal father TWICE…at this point taking the lord’s name in vain is next to not giving a crap at all in her book
Ross might’ve been a monster, but he never intended to kill Becky. Torture her into submission, yes, but that’s a whole other thing entirely.
But killing her WAS his Plan B.
In Ross’s twisted thinking:
Ideal Outcome: break her spirit and turn her into a submissive heterosexual cultist.
Acceptable fallback: Kill her before she can have sex so she still goes to heaven as kinda-sorta-technically-not-gay.
Worst Case Scenario: Becky escapes and enjoys a fulfilling, happy, same-sex relationship that dooms her soul to eternal torment.
I mean, he was going to send her to a conversion therapy camp okay with taking a kidnapped adult. Those places tend to have a scary high death rate.
Those places (and the mentality behind them) are just frikkin scary period.
goddammit panel 2
if this is enemies to lovers i’m gonna be so… pleased….
They’re only half-enemies, so they could only progress to half-lovers.
Frenemies with benefits?
I’m … surprisingly okay with that!
I don’t think Dina would be.
I suspect Dina would be rationally open to experimenting with something poly if the idea was run by her and she thought it through logically, but would be feral-possessive otherwise.
yes this exactly. i do not want to see dina lose her girlfriend in this. however, we already have one polycule, and you know what’s better than one background polycule? ^_^
Dorothy said she was a 1 on the Kinsey Scale so probably no go…
If the two polycules bond, would that make polyester?
Only if they bond over someone named Esther…
Then after they all go out for sodas as a polycarbonate.
I like it.
Half-lovers half-enemies?
Is that like, two people with crappy personal chemistry that are making out?
Every relationship ever?
it’s one-sided, Dorothy doesn’t see her as an enemy so it’s more like apathetic to understanding the needs of the moment.
It’s an unrequited rivalry.
I’m pretty sure that Becky isn’t going to go from girlfriends with Dina to lovers with Dorothy. I mean, try to think clearly here: Becky is the one holding back on the “pre-marital hanky panky,” not Dina. And Dorothy appears to be one of the few straight members of this ensemble.
I don’t actually think so either but I’m still amused by the idea. xD
Only Becky seems to think they’re enemies. Dorothy definitely doesn’t see Becky as her enemy. And I’m hoping Becky stops thinking that soon.
Girlfreinemies.
To be fair, ANYTHING going into/onto the eyeball, EVEN AIR, is at least mildly unpleasant.
…you have had worse from the wind blowing on a breezy day. It’s more about being a whiny baby than about any pain or discomfort.
Different people react differently to stimulus. A number of people on here have commented about disliking the air puffs. I don’t think anyone’s being a whiny baby.
Normally, you’d close or shield your eyes on a windy day, or at least blink regularly.
Most operators of that machine seem to be waiting patiently for you to keep your eye open for what feels like a full minute before they hit the button.
It’s not just that it’s air. It’s sudden and you know it’s coming, and the anticipation gets you. And it’s a pretty strong puff.
The puff itself is mildly uncomfortable but the instinct is when anything touches your eyes to blink and your not allowed to blink.
In addition to everyone else’s points: on a windy day I have literal windshields in the form of glasses in front of my eyes. Not so much with the Puff Machine of Doom(TM). 😛
I sure haven’t, the glasses prevent my eyes being blown on.
It’s the anticipation while sticking your head in a medical contraption in a dark room that make it 10x worse than it actually is.
Becky is not impressed by the nightmare machine.
I’m waiting on the part lens comparison machine thing. Always the most fun part of your glasses exam.
Dorothy just doesn’t want to get up
nah, she understands that Becky needs to do that for her own sake…plus it gets rid of Becky for a minute or two
Also Dorothy is the one who is making Joyce do this.
Dorothy is the one convincing Joyce to do this. She has no ability to make Joyce do anything. On the other hand, this is Dorothy managing Becky. Yet another example of the fact that manipulative and evil are two unrelated qualities.
This is getting Becky to see it’s in Joyce’s best interests, and that Becky plays a unique, valuable, appreciated role in Joyce’s life that Dorothy can’t (and wouldn’t try to) replace. I’m not sure if it’s so much manipulative as excellent (and empathetic) people management…
If you view Dorothy as being so administrative or bureaucratic because she is trying to make her world neat and orderly for her own selfish pleasure, yes, you could paint her as manipulative.
If you weren’t trying to outgun Ayn Rand in cynicism, no. What I can’t parse is why people want Dorothy to be more heavily flawed like the other characters when she works best as a straight man to characters like Becky and Joyce.
Personally, I always prefer a character who has an arc and eventually hits walls they can’t simply jump over, and Dorothy’s very much a main one. But it’s also a thing that Dorothy DOES have flaws that have only gotten minimal narrative attention so far, or haven’t quite been focused in on as flaws – the overstudying arc, for instance, makes it very clear that Dorothy DOESN’T have an appropriate work-relaxation balance, and that is a genuine issue that can cause lasting physical harm. Its resolution wasn’t really because Dorothy learned she had overextended and needed to rest more, but because she broke up with Walky and then finished her extra credit – narratively unsatisfying and kind of iffy if there’s no followup because it reads a bit ‘ambitious women can’t have relationships’, and I don’t think the Walky tutoring alone was what pushed her over the edge. (Dorothy herself acknowledges that she’d taken on more volunteer work than she could balance.) Now, I DON’T think that was the resolution of that character point, but you can kind of see where the issues are if ‘sure Dorothy pushes herself to the point where she neglects food and sleep and broke up with a boyfriend who provided a relaxation outlet, but she got into Yale so none of that’s REALLY a bad thing’ were actually the ultimate outcome there.
Similarly, we have seen Dorothy have a goalpost-moving issue in her relationship with Walky (‘it’s purely casual’/‘okay it’s a relationship but not, like, a serious one’/‘I love you’ and the pause-that-basically-wasn’t.) I don’t think that was manipulative, or intentional boundary-pushing on her part, but it was a genuine flaw with the relationship and Dorothy’s actions in it. Not an unforgiveable one, but a flaw nonetheless. (I’m willing to put the Danny breakup as ‘Dorothy was trying to let him down gently for months and he could not take the hint’ and a mutual failure, but that still should have been a much firmer breakup much sooner.)
We’re also seeing some similar things this arc that Dorothy has some benevolent boundary-disrespecting in the name of Mom Friend. Which, yes, Joyce objectively needed an eye appointment and was absurdly childish in her fear of it, but was still a questionable call. (The fact that Dorothy brought the agoraphobia aspect up to Becky and not Joyce herself, for instance, feels a bit patronizing the more I think about it.) Again, not unforgiveable, and because it’s Joyce I do see where Dorothy would find it the best option, but still one of those things she does need to learn is over the line at some point. Fortunately, it’s college! I think her perceptiveness here also kind of illustrates why it weirded people out in the replacement RA storyline, as well – Dorothy picks up A LOT about people naturally, which is fine, but if she brings it up without interacting with them a lot or suggests a solution to their problem unsolicited, that feels less like ‘Dorothy’s a good friend’ and more invasive.
In short, Dorothy’s just as flawed as the rest of the main cast but less consistently acknowledged as flawed, and character development is interesting so some of us want said flaws addressed. (I also want Dorothy to eventually lose her temper over Becky as much for Becky’s development as Dorothy’s – eventually she’s got to realize the goofball ‘nemesis’ thing isn’t particularly funny to anyone but her, and can be genuinely harmful.)
I mean, what little I’ve read of How to Win Friends and Influence People seemed to mainly rely on manipulating people in a nice way. And it seems like the kind of book Dorothy would read.
Dorothy made the appointment without Joyce’s full consent and pretty much didn’t take no for an answer when Joyce hesitated.
I realize Dorothy’s heart is in the right place. She’s looking out for Joyce. But that doesn’t mean the way she went about it was okay.
I like how (my interp) Becky got a little wet googly-eyed when Dotty said “nope, this is your wheelhouse, go get ‘er.”
you got the same interpretation that I got, she “got” Becky there even if Becky doesn’t want to admit it. it’s a compliment and shows how much Dorothy actually understands her
Teamwork! There is no ‘eye’ in ‘team’.
Why are my comments being eaten and not posted?
Let’s try this again.
I love that even Becky thinks Joyce is being a wimp here. Come on Joyce, you’re a big girl, you can handle a small puff of air into your eye.
Oh now it posts, I see how it is. Fucking computers
Well I mean, if that’s what you’re into…
That’s what the Internet’s for. (Source: Avenue Q.)
Huh, an unexpected reference I actually got.
I’m really tempted to link to the QC where Sven and May get together.
…Giving in to temptation. May be NSFW depending on your W.
Substitution, mass confusion,
Clouds inside your head
Involving all my energies,
Until you visited
With your eyes of porcelain and of blue,
They shock me into sense
You think you’re so illustrious,
You call yourself intense–The Cars
Cute.
That was … actually a genuinely sweet moment between Dorothy and Becky. This is a good late holiday present.
I laughed so hard at Becky’s final line. It’s one that would only be mildly funny without the connection to these characters that’s been built up, and that’s why I love this comic so much.
Y’know what I’m going to take today’s Becky-Dorothy interaction as win and not worry about the reset button in two days.
You think it’ll take that long? I’m not as hopeful, sadly.
I suddenly wonder if Joyce hasn’t been avoiding other checkups.
D’aw. Becky putting into words her secret fears that Dorothy really is the better friend, while Dorothy tacitly reassures her that there are things only Becky can do,, is totes adorbs.
It’s really refreshing, considering how contentious their relationship often is. Well, one-sidedly contentious, at least.
Apparently if I change my email, my comments can’t be posted. So there is that, I guess.
But let’s try one more time:
I love how even Becky thinks Joyce is being a wimp. Come on Joyce, you are a big girl, you can handle a small puff of air at your eye.
Oh fuck that noise, please not Booster.
Oooo, yay Amber. This is perfectly acceptable.
Change your email how? If you’re using a completely different email address, then yeah, it needs to be approved before you’re free to comment with it. But, once a comment has been cleared for posting, you should be able to use it.
If you use G-mail there used to be an option to use yourname.n@gmail.com with n any number and it would still go through as a valid addy and mail sent to the addy would show in your inbox or you could use a filter to send it to a specific folder.
You can change capitalization.
…Yeah? I don’t think that’s what Kyrick was doing, but I don’t know 100%.
Kyrik*
I’m not gonna try the gravatar roulette anymore now that I have my Twilight Sparkle avatar, but in the past doing grav roulette too much too fast caused me to be unable to post comments for a while. So you might want to be careful how you do the grav roulette.
Ohgodfinally. I could write an essay on why this strip is such a relief but… Yeah. Thank you, Willis. Dorothy is a saint and I’m glad that for once, Becky #Understood.
(Gravatar Roulette, let’s go!)
… Lucy I adore you but I’m looking for someone who’s got a tad more dignity . May I re-roll? ;3;
Those watery eyes in panel three are really getting to me, in response to the “you are more of what Joyce needs in this particular way.” I hope Becky learns to share custody.
Wait. If Dorothy is like a mom to Joyce, and Becky is like a mom to Joyce, then Dorothy and Becky are both Joyce’s moms???
Considering how crap her bio mom is, Joyce needs all the moms she can get.
Joyce has two moms. I ship it.
Dorothy is also two her own moms, so that makes three moms for Joyce.
Oh, cool, I’m Carla now.
It takes a village to raise a Joyce.
I mean, given the crap job her last village did, I’d say three great moms is a minimum.
isn’t sarah like a mom to her too? Doesn’t that make three moms?
Sarah’s more like a big sister. A kind of grumpy but loving one.
Sarahs her big sister. They have called each other that before
These three are a Good-aligned hat trick, aren’t they? Chaotic Becky, Neutral Joyce, and Lawful Dorothy.
For that matter, what would the other cast member alignments be?
I know there are horrid limitations to the alignment chart, especially when it comes to morals v ethics, and sources of authority, but definitely fun to think about.
Well, I would say Walky is ChN, Toe Dad is obvs LE but believes he’s LG, Hammer Dad in motorcycle armor is ChE, Booster is I’m leaning to ChN or NN until more facts are in evidence. Lucy is either ChG or NG, again I’ll need more facts. The cops guarding Hammer Dad are LE or NE, the dudebros hired by Hammer Dad are NE to LE. And I just don’t feel like trying to remember who the characters are bad enough to finish the list, because remembering names and faces is literally painful for me.
As I understand it:
Joyce – Neutral Good
Dorothy – Lawful Good
Becky – Chaotic Good
Walky – Chaotic Neutral
Sarah – Lawful Neutral
Sal – True Neutral
Amber – True Neutral
Amazi-Girl – Chaotic Good
Dina – Neutral Good
Ruth – Chaotic Neutral
Jennifer – True Neutral
Lucy – Neutral or Lawful Good
Joe – Chaotic Neutral
Danny – True Neutral
Robin – Chaotic Neutral
Leslie – Neutral Good
Roz – Chaotic Good
Booster – Chaotic or True Neutral
Carla – Chaotic Neutral
Malaya – True Neutral
Ruth is Lawful Evil, the alignment of petty tyrants everywhere (and before someone brings up her brother, that’s what we call a morality pet).
Character alignments? What a pointless waste of time. Sign me up!
LG: Sarah, Joyce, Dorothy, Amazi-Girl, Jacob, Hank, Lucy
NG: Sal, Agatha, Ethan, Stacy
CG: Becky, Walky
LN: Toedad, Carol, Jason
TN: Amber
CN: Faz
NE: Mary, Ryan, Bro-heims
CE: Blaine, Mike (barring last-minute heel-face turn)
Hard calls: Ross (LN, or maybe LE), Carla (CN or CG), Ruth (was NE, now TN or NG), Clint (LN or LE), Chloe (not evil, not chaotic), Billie (TN or CN), Malaya (CN or CE), Dina (Confused-Good), Robin (was CE, MAYBE has changed to CN), Leslie (LG or NG), Joe (TN, or MAYBE NE), Danny (LG or LN, depending on how self absorbed he’s acting today), Ethan (TN or NG), Rachel (LG or LN), Jocelyne (some good), Mandy and Grace (CG: Chorus, Greek), Linda (LN or LE), Roz (non-evil), Sierra (some good), Keener Parents (some good), Siegel parents (LE or LN), Warner parents (some good), Richard (TN or NE), Sayid (some good), Alex (non-evil), Asher (non-lawful, non-good)
Anyone else?
Aaaand I listed Ross twice. Ignore me saying firmly he was LN, he’s a toss-up between LN and LE.
Am I the only one thinking that Sarah is not lawful?
I mean… she followed Joyce to a party with a baseball bat.
I mean, plenty of Paladins walk around with swords all day… Sometimes you gotta be prepared to Lawfully Protect your friends from Harm.
One could also say that she’s so Lawfully Good savvy that she’s willing to protect innocent Joyce from people who want to Break the Law. Just with the more timely approved Bat than a Sword.
Unless you’re a paladin, you’re allowed some leeway in how you handle certain situations so long as your actions are primarily under your alignment.
https://xkcd.com/2408/ seems relevant.
(Note: the following is written purely for the purpose of humor, and in no way reflects anything approaching the author’s true beliefs)
Good-aligned? But all three characters are obviously evil!
Dorothy wishes the join the ranks of the hated establishment, to force her vision of a “better world” into law, to shackle and enslave the populace so that they may “enjoy a better standard of living”. What else could that be but pure evil?
Becky betrayed her benefactor by undermining her campaign, so that she’d be cast out and forced to live on the streets, just because she happened to be the antithesis of everything that Becky believed in, and really should have known better. Again, evil!
And Joyce? Why, just look at how naive and innocent she is! And what else is naive and innocent? That’s right, babies. And as any parent knows, there is nothing more casually evil than babies. By obvious extension, she is clearly the most evil one of them all!
I mean, they even follow the classic witch’s archetype – Dorothy, the wise crone, Becky, the worldly mother, and Joyce, the innocent maiden. The ages might not reflect that, but their personalities are obviously a deliberate reference for those who can see through their “good” facade!
(Apologies in advance to those who have had to suffer through more sincerely frustrating alignment arguments.)
My eldest was very upset when I tried to argue that my supervillain OC in her game where she was the superhero genuinely wanted to make the place and THAT was why I was trying to take over the world, and I saw HER as the villain for thwarting me… Apparently that sort of rationale is mean when your kid is 5 or 6 LOLOLOL (this is why I was the villain, isn’t it?)
Here I thought television was teaching our kids better than that.
Joyce has a million rules about food touching, wouldn’t swear for the longest time even when people offered to pay her, and embraces the most puritan of sexual mores. Her one indiscretion with Jacob notwithstanding, she is so very very lawful.
”Jesus Christ Joyce” is now in my forever vocabulary
Becky speaks for all of us who’ve had it done.
It’s just a freaking puff of air that barely presses on you if at all- get over it!
Yeah, and if you blink, they gotta do it again. It’s hard not to blink. It startles the crap out of you like the biscuit can does. She’s not used to it either.
The biscuit can is genuinely startling, thank you.
There’s being startled and there’s being overdramatic. She was startled the first time, now she’s just being over the top overdramatic. It’s ridiculously bad even for neurotic Joyce.
Not everyone can cope with the same things you can easily. Some people have stated in the comment section that they get startled every single time too and someone made a comment that PTSD tends to make it easier to be startled (which Joyce may or may not have).
Some people can get used to it, some people can’t, because you can’t control if you’re going to get startled or flinch and for someone neurotic like Joyce, the anticipation will be messing her up over and over and over again because it gives time for her anxiety to build up again each time, making her tense and more prone to being startled/flinching again.
We haven’t seen things longterm because of the timescale, but I definitely wouldn’t be shocked if Joyce does have PTSD given she was showing short-term trauma responses. (The agoraphobia mentioned a few days ago, and being triggered by the hymn at church and the ‘Jesus died for us’ line.) On the one hand, the agoraphobia cleared up after her particular assaulter was stabbed within an inch of his life, but the Ross trauma was immediately compounded by the congregation echoing him in general so I doubt his death had the same relief factor (besides the sheer ‘literally watched him die’-ness. I wouldn’t be shocked if witnessing the stabbing would have had a slightly more conflicted psychological impact the way Dorothy did.)
Ah yes, the old “This is easy for me, so you just need to get over it” argument. Never a good look.
Lots of people have commented here about it still being hard for them – some to the point of not being able to do it.
Of course, as we always suspected, Dorothy is secretly evil. This is a place to secretly harness Joyce’s adorability to sell on the black market.
Why the black market? It’s legal for the… not… black… market? White market? Normal market? Transparent market?
Also, why the secrecy? Adorableness has been openly harvested since at least the days of Shirley Temple.
I think the actual term is “open market”.
Isn’t that basically Willis’s plan?
EVERYONE STAND BACK, I’M A LESBIAN!
This is an excellent reinterpretation of “Move, I’m gay” and I approve.
Honestly, I prefer this machine over the instruments where they get right up against my eyeballs. All of my optometrists have hated me
Becky it BREATHES on your EYEBALLS, any amount is excruciating and unpleasant >_>’
Quit downplaying how awful it is, Becky. That machine really blows.
I see what you did there.
Are you just winding up?
Don’t need to wind up. Puns are a breeze.
Let’s storm the comments with puns!
It’s definitely the worst machine they have. What did she think it was that might be worse than that?
The machine that sticks needles in your eyes.
The machine that sticks needles in your eye, while blowing air in your eyes, while cutting onions, and playing the movie Grave of the Fireflies, all Clockwork Orange style where you can’t blink?
And plays Beethoven. Not my Ludwig Van!
I don’t think that Dorothy could have done more to build bridges with Becky than to assure her that she’s willing to share Joyce with her. That was Becky’s fear after all: That she was losing Joyce to Dorothy.
Meanwhile, Becky is learning just how neurotic and crippled by anxiety Joyce really is at the moment.
I mean, she has been for some time, and this is as much a reflex thing as anything (I know it’s at most unpleasant but keeping your eye open for it all is tricky,) but yeah I don’t think Becky had quite recognized how debilitating Joyce’s anxieties were getting. She was this terrified of an eye exam (which I think Becky is starting to recognize is necessary, especially with Dorothy’s point about seeing people with the crowds) that is, in fact, completely benign because it’s a potential change and Joyce Cannot Handle anymore right now, whatsoever.
This strip made me happy.
Motherfudger just sounds way more difficult to say than using the actual swear word to me.
You have to go the extra mile…
Dorothy, does Becky even play DnD?
I’m surprised Dorothy knows the alignments to refer to them
I have never played DnD but *I* have heard of the alignments. This isn’t as super rare knowledge as it used to be.
They’re in all kinds of me message I’m sure Dorothy knows a few.
*memes
Dann you autocorrect.
Why? The alignment system is super common knowledge these days
Maybe that’s what she was doing all those nights she snuck out.
That’s against her religion.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/hobble/
Or… the religion her daddy wanted her to follow.
So, yes, She has most definately played it at this point.
Gah, now I want a series of strips where they just play D&D, [i]Community[/i] style.
I REFUSE to read the note right below the comment field that reminds you how to use tags in this comment section.
Lol
I’m sorry do you know how many viral alignment memes there are? I didn’t even know the alignments were a dnd thing for a while
Yep, same. Also I think even someone unsullied by the internet (which we know Becky isn’t anyway) could fill in the blanks easily that it’s probably something to do with generally having good intentions and…well being chaotic/ignoring rules sometimes.
I’m So pleased, Willis did such a good job with the smile on Joyce’s face. That is now in my Canon as the Joy of Knowing True Friendship. If Dina ever smiles at Becky like that, I’d bet Becky would sew their tops together at the shoulders, to be inseparable.
Panel two and three make me so happy. I am proud of Becky.
Has Becky been off the reservation enough to know where “chaotic good” comes from?
She doesn’t have to; she only has to be smart enough to get the gist of it.
It’s pretty self-explanatory.
(Is there a fundie-approved D20 game?)
Would you consider not using that phrase?
https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/off-the-reservation-a-teachable-moment-nW1d7U0JRkOszhtg8N1V1A
Yay, learning!
Honestly, I’m surprised that Becky is willing to ‘take the Lord’s name in vain’, as commonly considered by American churches. (Using God or Jesus as an exclamation of emotion in a non-spiritual situation.)
Even if Becky is unfamiliar with DnD, she’s very familiar with memes. It was literally her job.
Personally, asking ‘the Boss’ for help in dealing with Joyce’s crippling levels of anxiety is likely to be considered not ‘in vain’.
“You handle that, I need to keep working”
Still no name for the doctor?
She might come back if she has a return appointment later. I also doubt that she’s a doctor, just an ‘optical technician’.
She’s most likely an optometrist, because she’s performing an eye exam and can prescribe corrective lenses.
Opticians are not doctors, but they’re trained to measure the face and fit lenses and frames. They’re like the dental technicians of eye stuff.
Ophthalmologists are medical doctors who specialize in and can perform surgery on the eyes, in addition to what an optometrist can do. It’s a medical specialty, like dental surgery or osteology.
(Headcanon still says her name is Dr. Eileen Seymour, OD.)
The doctor does the eye exam, the tech runs you through the machines beforehand.
Really? My optometrist does the whole exam beginning to end, and the optician helps with frames and does the measurements.
Willis hasn’t tagged her, yet.
But, Becky just did – she’s clearly Dr. Labcoat.
Willis will probably retro-tag her at some point, like he does.
Dr. Labcoat it is.
Doctor? Who?
Even Becky can’t believe it. JOYCE!!!!
Joyce’s smile as Becky’s coming for the rescue in the last panel is wonderful
A puff of air, a burst of Becky.
Based on other comments the air puff device seems pretty common but despite going to an optometrist for almost 2 decades i don’t recall ever getting air puffed at my eye.
It’s a glaucoma test, but apparently not necessarily standard – or at least, other options are still being used frequently enough. So if you don’t have a family history of glaucoma and/or your optometrist uses a different test, it’s totally possible.
Then you probably got the other glaucoma check at some point, where they anesthetize your eye and press a probe onto your cornea to measure intraocular pressure.
My eye doctor uses something that is likely the probe you mentioned to measure eye pressure during most of my check ups
lol I love the fact even Becky’s like “Are you kidding me? It’s just that?”
I love how she is all ready to die on this hill when she see’s what Joyce is actually going through and then it’s all “come on, REALLY? I totally wasted my righteous indignation…”
Is it not possible for someone to physically hold their own eye open, with their fingers, for this test? Seems like it would be a simple enough solution. Just checked right now- one fingertip on each eyelid, and use that to slide the eyelids further open than normal. Not uncomfortable on its own, my fingers aren’t directly on my eyeball or on the underside of the eyelid, and I can’t blink. Won’t make the air less unpleasant, but you can’t blink on it that way.
The purpose of this test is to measure the pressure inside the eye (by measuring how much the surface of the eye deflects in response to the puff). Holding your eyelids like that is likely to apply pressure to the eye, thus giving a false reading.
Hmm. I don’t want to be crime-associated. Lets try a little gravatar roulette.
Much better!
No tag for Labcoat?
Wow, in this episode and the next day’s, both Dorothy and Becky really shine.