← took a year of Calculus as an ELECTIVE bc the bizarre notion from out of nowhere that math is a REQUIREMENT for each year of school FOREVAR took hold sometime in middle school and never let go
Then you can count at least SOME of your time spent in school as an actual education, rather than simply paying someone to stroke their own ego via grad-students with loans that are worse than credit-card debt.
Well if both Ross kidnappings add up to the 2, then the Ryan thing is probably the .5 as that’s the one where her identity probably wouldn’t have inherently been made public? Though it could also be the first kidnapping due to the fact that she was slightly more adjacent in that one. I dunno, I would have just said 3.
I think it’s more because politically/publically speaking, Ryan was connected more to Amber and Sal and Robin. Joyce was a foundation of the underlying/preceding event but, as far as the later, actual “politicized event” went, she wasn’t involved. Hence, she had a tangental connection to the politics of the matter rather than a full one.
To rephrase that: Normally you’d round her assault event DOWN, not up, given its lack of direct connection to politics (assuming the assault victim themself didn’t pursue later political discourse based on the event). But, it WAS tangental to a political event (not just Robin’s rally, but possibly also to overall crime on IU campus [of which there seems to be A LOT] and of campus assaults in general and of continued misdeeds by those associated with the church and of who-knows-what-else).
It’s reasonable to indicate that politicized event, being tangental to her own history, doesn’t give her leverage into having a direct association with politics but, at the same time, may have led to her being invested enough in the associated politicized event to have compelled her involvement in politics.
In short, of 0, 0.5, and 1, 0.5 seems most accurate, but 0 would also be reasonable. 1 seems unsupportable, given that she didn’t actually participate in the immediate environment of a political event herself.
Okay, the meaning of mood has definitely shifted. From “emotional state” to “approach to life” if I was guessing from context. Unless this is just a cultural reference I’m ignorant of on account of being old.
“That’s a mood” has become slang in recent years for “this is an experience/state of mind that I strongly resonate with, having experienced it myself.”
And now we’ve basically completely [mis]quoted the entirety of Haddaway’s What Is LoveJoyce. Seriously, there’s only like two non-repeated paragraphs of other lyrics in the entire rest of the song.
No, I don’t know why, but this seems fair.
You gave me your memes, but I don’t care
So what is Joyce? ..Well, so long!
(Gimme a mime.)
Roz literally volunteers openly for Planned Parenthood in Indiana and literally exposed herself for the whole world in the same political landscape that drove Dr. Ford from her home but go off I guess Becky
By the way Becky’s little “white girl calling the Latine Planned Parenthood volunteer privileged” shtick got old, like, six hundred comics ago.
I’m not interested in “Becky is more privileged than Roz” as an argument, because comparing oppressions and sufferings sucks. I do think the comic’s “Roz is more privileged than Becky” take is every bit as embarrassing and cringey. Trying to spin either of them as ivory tower slacktivists would be obnoxious and petty. Right?
We’re talking about a poor gay white girl and an upper-class straight brown girl and honestly I think I was pretty clear that I’m not having the argument at all because it’s a stupid argument to have. Willis shouldn’t be trying to make a comparison at all here. It’s out of his ballpark.
In the version of the comic I got, it was Sarah who was implying Roz was privileged based on family. Becky was implying she got in because she was notorious.
I think Robin and Roz are closer to ‘olive’ than actual non-whites. Didn’t Willis say that? It could’ve been their previous incarnations or I thought I remembered something that was never said.
Either way, the DeSantos’s all look like they can pass for brown, and I can picture bullies calling Roz the ‘W’ word during her K-to-12 days, whether she’s partially or wholly white or not. Wondering if her dad messed around like with the original Roz….
Skin tone. Olive skin is a term referring white people with a more beige tone of caucasian that gets it’s name from how people from Southern European nations along the Mediterranean Sea. It’s also called Mediterranean caucasian, according to Google.
This, if it is the case with the DeSantos’s, would contrast with Joyce and Becky’s more ruddy/alpine or “pink” caucasian skin tones, associated with Northwestern European nations, in how similar it can look to ‘caramel’ skinned people who are brown or black.
That said, olive, like ruddy, counts as ‘white.’ Unless you’re Ben Franklin, in which the only ‘white’ people are 100% British Isles and naturally goth-level pale…
Unless you get it from an ancestral mix of white, black and native as many Hispanics do, in which case, it’s very definitely not white.
It’s certainly possible the DeSantos qualify as “Hispanic white”, rather than “Hispanic non-white”, but I don’t think that’s been established either way and it’s not really a skin color distinction anyway.
I’m confused when I hear people call Roz’s family well connected and well off, like, have we gotten any indication that anyone in her family other than Robin is well off? A sister whose only relationship to Roz seems to be showing up to use her as a prop now and then? Does Robin support her family in any capacity? Like are there Roz and Robin family strips that happened that I just don’t remmeber
They’ve been implied to be wealthy, or at the very least alumni. This makes Roz a bad hypocrite, even though she clearly dislikes and tries to distance herself from her family just as much as all the other characters in DoA with bad rich parents.
I can’t remember anyone who ever actually knew her family implying that…I know the dean who hates Robin had to hang out with Robin at one family weekend or something, but I don’t know what advantage having a sister who the dean clearly dislikes would give Roz. I need to go back and look for any strips with their family.
Only person I heard who ever implied that the whole Desanto family was routine was Mary. But that’s fucking Mary and her opinion in other people’s morality and virtue isn’t really all that credible.
In fairness, this isn’t the first time Becky and Roz have interacted with this “Becky shows up to shittalk Roz” framing, and it grates on me even in these small exchanges. That said, dismissing what Roz did as “banged that dude” with a smirk clearly isn’t Becky just asking in good faith. Becky’s trashtalking Roz. That’s what she literally does in every scene Roz appears in.
Dismissing… how? And smirking? Really? She’s not. Never mind that Becky handles nothing with any kind of nuance, and Roz opened this exchange up by questioning Joyce being in a poli-sci course for literally no reason.
As for Becky trashtalking her in every scene. What the fuck? No, she doesn’t, and not without Roz starting shit first.
Roz says the semester that had a good chunk of the floor kidnapped, on top of an active shooter situation on campus, and a stabbing outside their dorm as “went well overall.”
Before that? Becky was doing her job as Robin’s campaign manager, and she immediately went into telling her to both not help her sister, pulled her usual Holier than thou bullshit she did on Joyce and also her whole “I’m more leftist than you but I won’t say how” bullshit. She doesn’t trash talk her until Roz actively started talking down to her.
Before that Becky just told Roz to give her a heads up when Roz decided she was collateral damage, and before that, the first time they interacted, was Becky inviting Roz to Joyce’s party without any trashtalking.
Why not? Roz is taking a tone that sounds like interrogation with Joyce over how she’s ‘not supposed to be here’ even if she really means ‘how is she paying for 4-year college after what went down with her parents?’
I can see how Roz THINKS she fits the pattern Dorothy, Sarah, and Becky have for being here, but feeling strongly about what are basically pretentious equivalents of blasting your music on your car stereo with excessive bass in a quiet neighborhood doesn’t make it any less such.
I’m pretty sure Roz is smart enough to know how to ask Joyce properly what motivates her interest in political science, if that were her actual goal.
Maybe Roz is getting these snapback attacks about privilege because she keeps initiating them? Like she did with Becky last time this subject came up? Or this time when she’s implying Joyce doesn’t deserve to be here?
How has she initiated them? And how is she implying Joyce doesn’t deserve to be there? She’s asking what Joyce is doing there because Joyce has never expressed interest in upper-level PoliSci courses.
They are second semester freshmen. I highly doubt its upper level. Registration probably fills up with poli-sci majors pretty quick though, and with Joyce being an Ed major she would’ve had to snag an overflow seat for elective students. Hence the registering at dawn.
– that Roz asks why she is in Nicklson’s class.. emphasis on the professor makes it seem like there is something special about taking a course with him. (Are there courses at that university that restrict enrollment to students with a certain history?)
– the way Sarah listed Joyce’s background made it seem like she was picked to be in the class
There is basically zero chance that this is anything but a 100-level class. Becky is in her first term, she couldn’t meet ANY prerequisites if the class had any, as she’s taken no classes. This is, therefore, a 100-level class, though this specific section is taught by a person with some degree of fame.
But Sarah’s here, and she’s at least a Sophomore. Maybe she did a bunch of gen ed classes for her Freshman year? Maybe she’s here because of the speaker? Maybe we should repeat to ourselves “it’s just a comic, I should really just relax”?
Well, there was also that time Roz was on a tirade about LGBTQ+ people being marginalized and silenced, while she ignored Leslie repeatedly telling her to stop.
Sorry, the one after the one after that. (I was filtering by “all comics with both Leslie and Roz in them” and the one in between doesn’t meet that criteria.)
Yenklette, there’s a difference between ‘how are you here, Nicholson’s sections are super popular and fill up fast’ and ‘how did YOU get in HERE’. The former is an honestly curious question. The latter strongly implies an unspoken ‘you shouldn’t be here’ or ‘you shouldn’t be allowed’.
The latter is literally what Roz said, by the emphasis on the words ‘you’ and ‘Nicholson’s’ in her speech bubble. The former is what you wish she’d said. I wish she’d said it too, but she didn’t.
Actually, Yenk seems to be wishing Roz had said “This is an upper level course, you need appropriate qualifications to be here. I’m surprised you’re here, given that this isn’t your major, so I’m politely enquiring as to your presence here, as I find it rather startling given the typical requirements for course entry.”
That is to say, completely redefining not just the context, but also Roz’s character. But yeah, as the last panel indicates, it was just in the context of “This class is popular” and Roz being petty about who can sit at the “cool kids table”.
Being petty about who can sit at the *cool kids table* sounds like Roz.
She has more in common with Carol Brown that either of them would ever admit. Proof that what should be a *source* of empathy, compassion and moral growth can be used as a form of diplomatic immunity from the consequences of lacking those things. The both of ’em…..
Didn’t know that volunteering at planned parenthood automatically cleansed away all of my shortcomings and sins. So I guess it’s the modern day version of buying an Indulgence?
I’m not saying Roz is volunteering at PP so that she can see which conservatives come in for info about abortions in order to make their lives uncomfortable after, but that would definitely be in character for her.
I think she’s more confused about the prereqs. Last she knew, Joyce was basically here to kill time before finding a husband, and this class is clearly being indicated as, like, a higher-level or harder-to-enter course. It’s valid to be confused.
I personally think Roz is just, as usual, judging Joyce as the naive white christian girl and just waiting to hear a ‘I thought it would be cool’ and give the speech ‘This matters to people, and you did it because you thought it is cool?!’ and that blah blah blah that you hear a lot in college when you pick up random courses for the sake of it.
Add to that, there’s no way this is a higher-level class. It seems to me quite clearly a 100-level class with no prerequisites. Everyone except Sarah is a freshman, and this is Becky’s first term as a student. (Sarah is in this section because she didn’t take it as a freshman.
I mean, the class fills up fast because the professor is A Big Deal, but this is the kind of class you take to fill general Ed requirements and think the subject matter won’t make you want to die of boredom. To my mind what Ruiz is doing here is walking into a section of, like, French 102 and being all ‘wait, you don’t want to live in France or be ambassador to France, who let your unworthy butt in?’
This brings back memories when I took Koine Greek classes and all the soon-to-be Bible scholars looked at me, the student from a completely different course, as if I shouldn’t be there (in reality, I shouldn’t those classes were available as electives by accident and people didn’t fix it… So classes I had)
But the point that people judge others as being unworthy of attending certain classes stands and Roz is famous for being a gatekeeper (Do any of you remember when she was arguing no one was more leftist than her?)
I took poli-sci and macroeconomics to fill US history requirements as part of Running Start in high school. Specifically because I like numbers and math but history classes make me dream of death. (I’m informed that I have just had horrible history teachers, and I imagine that’s fair.)
I do not regret it. Both of those classes were fascinating and thus genuinely educational, where traditional US History would have been naptime and a C average at best.
” It seems to me quite clearly a 100-level class with no prerequisites.” It seems weird Sarah, who is in it and would know if it has pre-reqs, would then say ‘maybe they waived them’ instead of ‘there are no pre-reqs’ then
I’m not sure what level Roz actually is at, but outside of the sophomore, we’ve got two second-semester Freshmen, and one first-semester freshman, so… it’s 50/50 as to whether or not there are pre-reqs in the first place, and at least at my college classes that had pre-reqs had those noted when you went to add them.
Then again, I didn’t go to IU so I have no idea if they do that.
Frankly it seems odd that Roz would ask how a fellow second-term freshman got into the same class that she herself is in. Roz, too, would know if there are pre-reqs, and furthermore seems to have zero surprise that Becky (who as a first term student who cannot possibly meet any pre-reason) is in the class.
Does Joyce somehow have fewer class credits than the actual zero Becky has?
But if all Joyce had to do to get in was be first in line, clearly there are no prereqs (at least none that she didn’t already satisfy). I don’t understand Sarah’s comment at all tbh.
Fwiw, I also think it’s valid for Roz to question why Joyce the education/MRS major is taking up a seat in this class that is highly sought after for its content/professor—but Roz is being REAL rude about it.
Yeah, honestly, I’ve… started to just kind of tune out the “Roz is having x bad tone problem” issue because it’s just sort of Willis insisting on framing everything Roz does in the most unsympathetic way possible. I get that it makes people wonder why I seem totally oblivious to the Obvious Jerk Roz is being, though.
Like, it’s not that I don’t think Roz has been rude, it’s that I see it more as the author warping her original personality to be a punching bag and I hate it and it has seriously ruined my enjoyment of this comic and I feel obligated to defend Roz at this point on principle.
In short, it’s been really rough to have Roz be my favorite character, because she hasn’t been written well since, like, the Robin In Leslie’s House arc, if even then. I really want Willis to just snap out of it and write her with the empathy and attention to layering privilege she used to have, and to stop using her as this weird allegory for privileged leftists.
The Roz who reached out to offer Joyce support, braved a media storm around her own body, and was clearly immensely hurt at the suggestion she would sell Becky out simply is not the Roz who tells a dorm full of traumatized college students “last term rocked because we won the election”.
It sucks and I don’t know what to do. So I just keep trying to defend her, because, like, she shouldn’t be written this way. It’s not faithful to her characterization, it’s a Flanderization of her deepest flaws as being all she ever is. It sucks! But maybe I’ve just become the woman who shouts at clouds at this point.
I think it really galls me to see the people who’ve always hated her—often, in my opinion, unfairly—gloating because now she’s being portrayed the way they always saw her: as an unfeeling privileged rich kid who just pursues politics for attention and has no remote perspective or nuance or empathy.
That’s how they always saw her. It’s not who she used to be.
It’s really ironic to me that we had a whole arc partially dedicated to acknowledging that the sex tape wasn’t for attention, it was an act of political rebellion committed by a woman who felt like she was being wielded for political interests she deeply opposed… and now we’re being told, “No, it’s just Middle Child Syndrome, she just actually wants attention.” Like, it’s a step backwards.
She’s a complicated character! She’s flawed! But literally the only scenes we get with her nowadays are her being this mean bully for Becky to trashtalk. I literally can’t remember the last scene with her that didn’t also contain Becky making fun of her. She fell by the wayside a long time ago.
(It’s also funny to me that we’re being told by the comic that Roz’s problems and political events are petty… by the measure of Willis’s own increasingly absurd and escalating narratives involving supervillains, the mob, and armed kidnappers. Like, her sex tape wasn’t trivial five books ago, but obviously a character like Roz is going to seem petty if you’re introducing “oh yeah half the cast has experienced at least one kidnapping and at least 1-2 cartoon car chases” into the mix.)
You think her personality has been warped, as opposed to she’s become more curmudgeonly after the events of last semester?
It’s a serious string of losses for Roz:
1. Didn’t get to bang Jacob.
2. Barred from further videotaped sexcapades.
3. Had to attend Robin’s campaign event.
4. Demanded Dorothy-and-a-friend’s attendance at a party w/ a sexual predator.
5. Repeatedly stepped over the line w/ Leslie in class, and was rightfully called out for it.
6. Failed to sabotage Robin’s campaign after it was revitalized by Becky, and then when Robin quit the campaign it was again because of Becky, so Roz’s skullduggery was irrelevant.
7. Failed to get the RA job she was gunning for.
8. Has been living with Mary for a whole semester.
Yeah, I’m comfortable saying that Roz has become kind of an asshole after all that. Doesn’t mean she can’t continue to evolve, nor does it mean she’s the only asshole in the room at the moment, but I think there’s a difference between “Roz is being a real douche lately” and “Willis [is] insisting on framing everything Roz does in the most unsympathetic way possible.”
This is character development that hasn’t actually been reflected on, so I am inclined to say it is not deliberate on Willis’s part. If we got literally one scene from Roz’s point of view, I might see it differently. I think it’s a good reading—Roz is clearly really isolated right now, and basically everyone at the dorms seems to dislike her, and her family’s pissed at her, and she’s probably still getting r*pe threats months after the election, so she’s probably having a really hard time. But… we haven’t seen her hurting from any of that. A lot of it is stuff you have to kind of read into. You’re doing Willis’s work for him.
I also think she’s just been way more cartoonish. It’s not just that she’s a jerk, it’s that she’s started saying things like “No one’s more leftist than me!” It’s like somewhere down the line Willis decided he wanted to use Roz to Say Things.
Also, she didn’t need to be more of an asshole. She was already incredibly polarizing as a character. You can’t just keep turning a character into a heel and expect the audience to remain sympathetic without giving them *something* sympathetic to latch onto. So if it’s deliberate development, it seems to be done with the intention of making people hate her.
Which they do! I’m literally the only person in this comments section defending her at this point. Everyone else got tired.
Hey Yenklette, idk if you’ll see this, but you’ve convinced me. Most commenters take characters as Willis represents them as a given and evaluate them on those terms, but not every representation is good. Or fair! Or even good for the story. I think it’s valid to be upset about what is being done to a character who had potential rather than being upset at a character, as if they’re real people or something.
More likely, she thought sharing a class with three of her best friends, in a course that satisfied some requirement and looked decent, sounded interesting.
I’m here because I paid my bazillion dollar tuition and they’re obligated to teach me the classes I signed up for snce I’m gonna live miy life in debt anyway. Might as well learn the shit I want to.
When Dorothy becomes president her staff are going to be terrified of Joyce. No matter how closely they watch her, no matter how tight the security she’ll still just appear nest to the president out of nowhere and act like everything is normal.
AYKM? Joyce is gonna get her own Secret Service detail, as First Best Friend (Totally Not A Wife Or Anything). “Deuteronomy” will be her Secret Service codename.
I really dislike Roz. Her ‘what are YOU doing here’ rings to me of ‘you don’t deserve to be here’ with maybe/probably a side of ‘you’re too backwards and stupid’.
The frustrating part is that she doesn’t suck all the time here, she just has a really aggravating (and mostly unearned) sense of superiority and apparently the firm conviction that tact is for OTHER people. There’s lots of evidence that somewhere in there is a genuinely kind person who wants to make things better.
Like… she doesn’t even have to Not Judge. ‘Oh hey Joyce. I didn’t know this was your thing, what’s the story?’ is exactly the same question as ‘what are YOU doing here?’ But the former can be heard as friendly curiosity while the latter just puts people’s back up.
This Roz knows how to people, but chooses not to. It’s worse than if she was just cluelessly abrasive.
Is it me, or is Sarah’s comment a total non sequitur? Roz seems to be asking how someone who has never shown an interest/doesn’t major in the subject matter got into an extremely competitive class in that subject (it’s not like dorothy’s aspirations are getting her special treatment, so she’s clearly questioning Joyce’s interest). Her phrasing was real rude, but…Joyce actually exactly answered her question. And clearly there are no pre-reqs that had to be waived since getting in line first did the trick, so Sarah’s comment just seems really, really weird and off-base.
If there are no pre-reqs, Roz’s question is inherently answered, Joyce is there because the subject is interesting to her in some way and she knows people who are going to take the same section, thus Sarah is giving a sarcastic answer to a bad-faith question.
If there are pre-reqs, likely not due to at least three freshmen being in this class, then it’s a blunt answer to a rude question.
Now the emphasis in the statement could be on Nicholson, who’s supposed to be some notable cable tv talking head according to two strips ago, and the question could be about “why with this specific professor” but then the question should really be how not why, due to said notable punditry.
It’s a non sequitur to “What are you doing in political science?”, but not to “How’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”.
That’s sort of a non sequitur to the first part of Roz in that panel, since she’s commenting on why the others would want to be there, but then shifting to how Joyce got in.
She also may have opted to take an Incomplete on it given the kidnapping happened right before midterm exams. Not sure how that would impact her scholarship but they probably wouldn’t want to take that away for the same reason.
(I did not remember what class we actually saw her take last semester.)
I find it possible that this is a course that is offered every other year rather than every year. A bit less than half the class may be sophomores, mostly tied with freshmen, with other years and non-traditional students rounding out the roster.
I think that’s probably true. Dorothy is there, and Becky is there, and Sarah is there, and Joyce probably has gen ed requirements to fill.
It may well be interesting subject matter to Joyce in its own right, AND it’s a way to engage with her friends regarding learning said interesting subject matter. Sharing study time with Dorothy/Sarah/Becky rather than that time being closed off. So really, the question is why wouldn’t Joyce be there?
[extreme salt because I need to go to bed]That sounds like what a character would assume, and Roz is just here to be a jerk so Becky can dunk on her.[/salt]
I’m with Joyce. I always registered as soon as I was able (usually around noon for me).
As for Roz, she’s a gender studies major, so I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain amount of political science is required (or at least recommended) for her.
So Roz just can’t even exist without being attacked now? Asking how and why someone who doesn’t seem interested in the subject got into a seemingly competitive class.
I mean maybe if the tone to her voice that we can’t hear is super rude, but we can’t hear it. I mean if someone who I had never seen show interest in baseball suddenly joined a team I may ask them what’s up. Even if the answer is just ‘I wanted to try something new’
Due to the limitations of the medium, Dumbing of Age sometimes struggles to get across key atmospheric elements—like how an ominous French horn plays whenever Roz is on screen.
The boldface text is subtle, but this is literally Roz’s dialogue:
“… Joyce. What are you doing in political science? Sarah wants to go into law, Dorothy wants to go into the presidency, Becky’s got that scholarship… …But how’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”
Charitably, she’s inferring that Joyce doesn’t need to be in that class since she’s not majoring in politics. But judging from Sarah’s defensive-for-Joyce retort, the tone implied by “how’d you get into” came across as pointed gatekeeping.
I’m not sure how to read ‘how’d YOU get in HERE?’ as anything but mean and/or catty? Certainly, even less sure when it’s as a response to a smiley friendly ‘hi Roz!’
If the response had been ‘Joyce. I had no idea this was your thing, what’s the story?’ That would be something else. That could be mean/snotty tone, and it’s the exact same question, but that phrasing in no way implies mean/judgemental the way the emphasis on YOU and NICHOLSON’S CLASS does.
Which part? Obviously the “if the response had been” part and the other was paraphrased, but Roz does say “How’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”, with the “you” and “Nicholson’s” emphasized, so it seems close enough to me.
Becky was briefly the successful campaign manager of a Notable Local Politics Person, so if there are prereqs or recommendations she might have had them waived as well. (Though Joyce’s comment does imply it’s all less dramatic than that and Sarah was just generally defending Joyce’s right to be there.)
A lot of classes has limited capacity and registering just because your friends are can really screw over a lot of people who actually need those credits for graduation.
You should go to bed if you haven’t already.
Also, Joyce really doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would register for a class she completely didn’t care about. Especially given that she registered as quickly as possible. It would make more sense to assume that she has an interest than the opposite, and people who need those credits for graduation are usually given preferential treatment anyway and/or should make their own efforts to register early. It’s fruitless to yell at people who just want to explore and learn new interests, or imply they don’t have a right to.
This class is big enough that it really should be in the big lecture hall, but said lecture hall is not available because mural. That tells me this is more than likely a basic course, albeit the basic course that majors should take rather than a basic course geared to, say, STEM majors filling gen-Ed requirements. Therefore, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s more than one section of this course per term, and it’s taught every term.
To conclude: there’s pretty much no chance that Joyce taking this class means someone else will never graduate.
In Our school, the Registrar’s office weights it so that upper class members get the classes they need to graduate “on time”, and the rest of the slots ar weighted for sophomores before freshmen’ but this seems to be an anomaly: 101 level class taught by ‘Someone of Note’.
I kind of feel bad for what Roz has been turned into over time in DOA, the only time I expect to see her is when she is angry about something and then Becky is there to make some irritating quip about it. Even moreso frustrating because you know Roz actually cares about what she does while Becky is just there because shenanigans. Becky has no interest in politics and has literally fallen into it and it must be frustrating for Roz when she is actually trying.
This time she’s not even angry though its just a remark on Joyce being in the class and both Sarah and Becky jump on it like instantly
I mean I’m probably pretty biased anyway because Becky has been grating to me for a while but it would be nice to see Roz without there being some kind of argument
Seriously what is the deal with this whole thing that Becky is “always there to make a quip about Roz.” They’ve been in the same strip, including this one, 16 times, and about half of those were Roz talking down to her because Robin hired Becky as a campaign manager.
“If anything, she doesn’t seem to have progressed character-wise.”
I can only assume “turned into” was meant as a “she had potential, but look how it was wasted,” rather than as being intended to reference any actual perceived development.
I think Roz may have a certain antipathy for Joyce in particular. From a certain viewing angle, Joyce got her in trouble in a class. Joyce’s best friend, who showed up uninvited mid-semester, undermined her own sabotage efforts for her sister. There are lots of people who hold a grudge without re-evaluating whether or not that grudge has, or still has, merit.
I think if it’d been Walky, do-nothing Walky, sitting in that seat, Roz would have walked on by without comment. If it’d been anyone else, except possibly Mary, I don’t think she’d have had a problem with it.
In which Roz suddenly realises that she’s no longer the spokesperson for the oppressed and the radical causes in the room. She can’t handle that, obviously and follows the historical precedent of trying to become the oppressor instead.
To explain, I’m wondering if Willis is making Roz a metaphor for the TERF (Transgender-Exclusionary Reactionary Feminist) movement. In essence, she’s facing a changing landscape of who is an who isn’t suffering from social and political exclusion; who is who is not being oppressed. She’s somewhat failing to keep up and is deeply resentful about the debate having moved on to others and their problems.
Also, as Booster said, there is a ‘Middle Child’ issue in t here too.
Well, an interesting dynamic I’ve realized is, minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on. Some portion of those pushing female rights put value on traditional gender concepts, as part of their push for equality.
That is to say, “There’s males and there’s females, and females are being pushed behind males, and that’s everything there is.” They never look beyond that dynamic, and so they overinflate the concept of minorities to exclusively be a binary arrangement between males and females. Race, sexuality, gender just doesn’t factor in [for that subset of individuals I’ve personally come across].
Even more than that, I’ve come across homosexuals who despise, mock, and bully asexuals- because the very existance of someone who changes sex into something of varying value comes across to [this subset of individuals] as a threat. They’ve spent their lives basing around the concept that sexuality- or rather, the specific manifestation thereof- is of critical importance. To hear that there’s something outside of the binary dynamic they’ve established comes across to them as diminishing everything they’ve fought for.
Which, once you grasp onto the basis of these irrationalities, really puts both politics (at least in a binary political system like the US) and historical conflicts into a certain painful perspective..
Ugh. Missed a qualifier at the start. “minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on.” should be “some of those within minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on.”
Not numerically, but in all the other ways the term “minority” implies. It’s a poor word for the concept in many ways, but it’s the convenient one we have. Women are a slight numerical minority, but have a distinct minority of wealth and power. They are routinely discriminated against, with an even worse history of both legal and social discrimination.
“marginalized group” or something like that, if you prefer.
Huh. I thought women held a slight majority in numbers. Mostly due to not getting killed doing stupid stuff as often, or working the particularly hazardous jobs in the same numbers.
According to Census.gov’s projections from back in 2005, in 2000 males outnumbered females from age 0 to about 34, an females outnumber males thereafter. Their projections for 2020 were that males would outnumber females from ages 0 to 44, and females would outnumber males thereafter.
It does appear that more boys are born than girls, odd. Now I’m wondering at the reasons. I wouldn’t think our country was engaged in selective abortion, or working sex-selection methods. Maybe in-vitro? https://www2.census.gov/library/visualizations/2005/demo/2005-us-region-poppyramid/52pyrmdus2.pdf
Not that I disagree with the rest of your point. There is a continuing cultural bias toward males in power and authority, and at least one legal restriction was still in effect no further back than 50 years ago.
Honestly, I’m interested to find out what makes the fact that this is “Nicholson” so valuable. It’ll be interesting to see if 1) it’s actually depicted as a course (Leslie’s class was… more of a freeform discussion group/therapy session/stage for character drama sorta thing than what I’d call a ‘course’) and 2) if Nicholson isn’t just made of straw.
I mean, given the setup, it might be interesting to see it be really rigorous, have Sarah and Dorothy (as prep machines) be better off than Becky (who is just burning off an obligation, she said so) or Joyce (who, yes, just sort of ended up there because that’s where the cast is rather than being depicted as interested in specifically doing that material), then everyone having to deal with that.
Nah. Professor Doc looks like Christopher Lloyd, so all his students started calling him “Doc” around the time Back to the Future premiered. It stuck over the last 35 years, to the point where even the faculty calls him that and has largely forgotten his real name. But hey, he’s tenured so he doesn’t care.
Love how flagrantly Roz just clearly resents Joyce’s presence in a political space because Joyce isn’t woke enough for her. She’s the exact kind of person to then go crying about it when people like Joyce don’t have political education later. If Roz were sincere about a damn thing she’d said in this entire comic she’d be head over heels that someone like Joyce is educating herself.
Y’know I (brown immigrant woman in America) am also instinctually wary of naive white girls in spaces that mean a lot to me. It’s not that they are incapable of learning — it’s that often their learning is exhausting and upsetting for people around them and I’d just like to be spared that please.
What’s so wrong with somebody trying to learn better than they’ve been taught? Are people just expected to keep being ignorant because they have more to learn?
Whoa guys, she said she’s wary of them, not that they need to go magically learn somewhere else or whatever, and that’s a totally valid reaction to naïve, exhausting white girls in those spaces, as they can tend to ask/use really offensive language/behavior. Then when you try to gently point out that isn’t okay, they somehow feel attacked and start arguing about it, just like you guys are doing here.
This isn’t a space that Roz gets to be protective of. It is a class offered at the school she has never attended before. If it was your ethical debate club you personally started, I could more get the instinctive defensiveness. But this isn’t something Roz has even a measure of control of, so she doesn’t get to imply that Joyce doesn’t belong or act like a secret gatekeeper that gets to decide who belongs. Sometimes… people take classes that interest them and that’s it.
Obviously Roz doesn’t have any standing to say Joyce doesn’t belong in a college classroom? I was responding to the claim that minorities who are “sincere” in their politics should necessarily be delighted when naive white people are trying to educate themselves in whatever way.
Wow okay, but that wasn’t the claim at all. You just warped it so that you could stand on your favorite soapbox.
Joyce is not only a white girl, Roz is not only a brown person, and simplifying these (or any) characters down that down that is a major disservice. Furthermore, a political science class exists for people to learn in. I hope you aren’t doing this everywhere you go?
Frustrating as it might be for Roz, I‘d say a lot more people are remembering her video with Joe than her campaigning for planned parenthood (if anyone remembers at all). That’s how people’s minds work. To get remembered for campaigning for planned parenthood while still doing a Joe video, she should have inserted that into the video.
So, for once, I‘m not even sure how deliberately annoying Becky is being here.
I really like Roz. I think she’s one of my favorite characters in the strip and want to see more of her as part of the main cast. I like her significantly more than Dorothy, who I have always felt was rather bland. However, I think Roz is meant to be a foil and low-level antagonist for Joyce. I also don’t think you have to make every person hostile to the protagoniusts to be a hate skink of misogyny and homophobia. In this case, Roz is a perfectly well meaning activist.
She’s just mean. In this case, Roz keeps her judgement of Joyce as a fundamentalist homophobe despite the increasing evidence. Joyce is the ENEMY and the fact she’s a sexual assault survivor, has sheltered an LGBT teen, and been subject to DOMESTIC TERRORISM no less than TWICE washes over Roz because it doesn’t fit her preconceptions.
Accepting someone has changed or you were wrong about something happens.
“I really like Roz [as a character concept]” feels more in line with what you’re saying, there. 😛
I mean, unless you like mean, stubbornly blind and hostile people, I guess. You do you~
~.^
Teasing aside, I feel Willis throws Roz in a bit too neatly. She’s nearly always just there to be shallow for the sake of a punchline or eliciting information. She doesn’t have moments of just being there to be nasty or otherwise bothersome, to revel in her shallowness.
In that regard, she feels less impactful and meaningful to the story than someone like Mary and, certainly to Malaya, who actually has elements of subtle character depth in conjunction with her shallowness [ie, her view towards relationships, gender, etc].
We don’t really ever see Roz establishing any subtleties or interesting relationship dynamics, like we do with Malaya and, even against Mary, we never really see her as a steady influence to the story.
She just comes in, says a few mildly annoying things, and then leaves. It’s always just a superficial disdain for her sister, a superficial acknowledgement of Joe, and some snide snubbing of Joyce. There’s never any real connection to other characters [in the sense of, say, how Mary gets under their skin or puts pressure on them or reall influences how the characters interact and grow].
In the end, while Roz’s concept is solid, I definitely feel it’s underutilized in terms of developing the character herself. Mike, for example, managed to have a clear influence on other characters even during the earlier strips when he was just engaging in shallow ribbing. Then, we got insights into his background and hidden depths, even if we never really got clear explanations on anything.
Roz, on the other hand.. hell, the other characters would talk about Mike fairly regularly, even if just to make “Ugh, that guy” statements. But Roz really just gets brought up due to her sister. She’s.. that bratty sister of the person people actually have interest (negative as it may be) in.
Which, y’know.. is exactly the position that Roz seems to hate most. It’d be a lot more interesting seeing her getting frustrated over that point and expressing some depth or at least interesting interactions, rather than just acting like a poorly commited, two-dimensional bully all the time.
(To be clear, I’m not saying Roz needs to be changed. She works great as a tool for the overall narrative just as-is. I’m just trying to establish why I find her lacking as a character. ie, as a response to “I like Roz [as a character / character concept]”. Even more so as a response to “I like Roz” alone. :P)
Lowkey, I hope Roz sharing a class with the others again this semester gives more space for screentime again – Leslie’s class eventually dropped off the radar as shit continued to escalate, but Roz is genuinely an interesting foil for Joyce, Becky, and Dorothy in various ways. (I do think she’s become used as a Holier Than Thou type as the Completely Uncompromising Political Youths have gained prominence – looking at you, third party voters of 2016 – but I also think that in-universe, it’s clear having to room with Mary’s sapped all the patience she had for people remotely like her. We know from the replacement RA arc she textually finds it torturous. I hope she got reshuffled offscreen as an excuse to give her back some depth with the accompanying space to breathe.)
That said I also suspect this is a lecture class given the implications about size, so we probably won’t see a ton of anyone participating in class itself. But we do know Joyce valued Roz’s input and perspective way back when, and I’d like to see her grow again.
Also on the subject of Dorothy: Oh am I looking forward to her hitting her breaking point. (And then building herself up again of course but seriously, it’s no fun when characters don’t snap under authorial pressure from time to time!)
If there aren’t pre-reqs for this course, Roz’s question in panel 2 (implying it’s hard to get into) doesn’t make sense.
If there are pre-reqs for this course (as suggested by Sarah’s comment), Joyce’s explanation for how she got in doesn’t make sense (unless I’m missing something about how course enrollment works in undergrad).
Seems to me like this is just sloppy writing in a narrative sense and the intention here is to establish characters as one thing or another. Specifically, Roz as someone who’s self-aggrandizing, a gatekeeper, oblivious to her own privilege, etc. This seems like poor use of Roz’s character to me, and it’s a little worrying that Willis is so keen to make a dumbed down generalization about progressive activism that the sequence of events implied by dialogue becomes confused and contradictory.
I mean, if a class is super popular it can be pretty hard to get a spot if it’s not required for your major, hence Joyce saying she got up at the crack of dawn? At my college we had some classes like that, where enrollment would fill up in minutes – you’d have to be ready to enroll right when registration opened at 8 am (practically the crack of dawn for college students!) or you were gonna have to wait till next semester
Yeah, it’s probably a sought-after class. I bet registration is first come first served, seating all the political science and law students first and then backfilling any vacancies with others who signed on.
Roz could have come across a bit less judgemental, but A. that’s fitting and B. it opened her up to that dig from Sarah.
i feel like the people complaining about how Roz is treated in the comic have never been on the parts of twitter or leftbook where everyone is basically too busy comparing privileges and oppressions to get anything done or have a real conversation.
she’s not really an exaggeration. she’s even less annoying than a lot of interactions i’ve seen.
also willis has defended some of her controversial/unpopular actions outside the comic, but all readers obviously aren’t going to see that.
oh also she’s ~18 and basically everyone sucks as a teenager.
And frankly if your shitposting undermines your actual advocacy, maybe you’re not as good at as you think you are.
I tend to think most of the shitposters aren’t really getting much done elsewhere. Or they are doing some direct stuff, but they’re also really serious about the posted arguments.
I think Roz has evolved into a caricature of “no true Scotsman” social media leftists, the type who were posting grouchy “I held my nose and voted for them but [politician who was just elected] isn’t left enough” memes on November 7th. She’s argumentative, even with people who mostly agree with her, runs off with her own assumptions, and comes across as supportive of progressive causes for performative as much as altruistic reasons. (I bet her social media feed would be full of “look at me and how supportive I am of [worthy cause]!” selfies. Remember when she wanted Ruth’s RA job for the perk of getting a single room, but played it up like she wanted to help the floor?)
Don’t get me wrong, I think we would have been better off if Al Gore was elected in 2000 or if Bernie won any time since then, but why do you think Republicans control the overall narrative? We’re pinned down under friendly fire while they’re out goose-stepping in unison.
This is Dumbing of Age, after all. Roz has her own particular dumbness, as any other character. The webcomic seems to be largely based on the author’s personal experiences, so I guess that Willis has had to suffer his fair share of Roz-like characters in real life. But I like how he manages to keep her likeable, making many of us root for her improvement. C’mon, girl! You know you can do better!
They’re common in interactive fiction games, ie, text-based video games akin to classic Zork or Adventure. Zifmia is a summon-target spell, and Aimfiz is a teleport-to-target spell.
See, I’d make a comment about FFXIV here, but the only option that allows for this sorta warping involves the in-game equivalent of marriage. And that then offers the option of Dorothy warping to Joyce as well as vice-versa.
The Ring of Eternal Bonding is one of my favorite items in the game. It’s so convenient and saves so much time, i’d recommend people use the free Ceremony option just to get it.
I don’t understand the confusion over the pre-req thing.
Roz begins by asking why Joyce is there and mentions the others have relevant majors.
Then she asks how Joyce is there.
Joyce’s answer is that she applied early. Presumably, right after it opened.
This tells me the class is one of the ones where its first come first serve for majors, then, if there happen to be open seats, for the randos.
Sarah’s comment is probably sarcastic and/or suggesting the professor manually put Joyce on the priority list. Eithrr way its a dig at Roz for being a gatekeeper or being less deserving to be there.
Besides, Joyce is an education major. Wouldn’t she need at least a somewhat-higher-than-baseline knowledge of most commonly-encountered subjects?
Honestly, after the last few years I think everyone needs a refresher course in civics and home economics. Maybe we can resurrect Schoolhouse Rock to make music videos about how elections work and why you don’t need a $75,000 pickup truck as a daily driver because you buy mulch once a year.
Finally, the honest one.
“I am only taking this class, because I registered for classes, at the last minute, and this was the only one available.”
Say what you will, at least Joyce is not going to BS you.
I think it’s the opposite, in this case. She got up early and snagged a popular class when it was first posted as available. Probably Because it was one she could share with three of her friends.
I’m going to guess, from the other comments by the characters, that there may have been two tiers of enrollment, with declared majors getting a chance to call dibs, and Joyce getting in after all those seats were filled.
I guess it depends on how you view Joyce’s, “crack of dawn”, statement. If you go by the idea that she registered as early as possible, she would then also need to know Sarah’s, Becky’s, and Dorothy’s schedule; otherwise, it is just a stab in the dark. But if you go on the opposite end, where she hastily threw a schedule together at the last minute, then it becomes a happy coincidence. The later seems more plausible, because if she really did register for classes early, then the class would not have been available, as it would only be open to just poli-sci/law majors.
Roz and Mary are more plot devices than characters and I am fine with that. Let them get their own comic if they want to be lead characters. Tag and Bink made it work (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_and_Bink) and so did Gwenpool. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern too.
Now I have to re-read Tag and Bink. Thank goodness for libraries.
wait, why IS joyce in poli-sci? doesn’t she want to be a grade school teacher (or something like that?) is she JUST here because she saw a class that becky, dorothy AND sarah was in and absolutely needed to get in?
It fills Humanities credit. Presumably it’s one of multiple classes that could have, but her friends are in this one which is just the icing next to the cake. (It’s also good for narrative purposes.)
I’m not sure I need it explicitly explained to me why Sarah would find any random particular DoA character annoying. It’s like asking why Walky ate one particular well-known brand of junk food.
I feel like everyone is collectively forgetting that it has been explicitly established that Sarah does not like Roz. All this debate over who said what and how in a conversation where we can’t actually hear tone and we’re forgetting the fact that it is well within character for Sarah to automatically assume the worst of what Roz meant. We can argue whether or not Roz’s past actions are sufficient justification to assume she meant it in a rude way, but the simple fact of the matter is it would be weird if Sarah suddenly decided to pay attention to that nuance rather than defaulting to “it’s Roz, she’s being rude.” It’s not uncommon for people to be less inclined to listen to people that they don’t like. The actual likely attitude of the people around Sarah and Roz is a “well here we go again” attitude.
Yes, the valid HTML tags and attributes are listed below the comment box. You can bold, italicize, and strike text, indicate something is a quote, citation, acronym, or abbreviation, and you can create anchor tags. You can also use the del tag for some reason. I’d think that’d only make sense if you could edit comments but it’s there.
Roz seems like what we’d call in my language a “salonsocialist”. I guess limousine liberal in American (though limousine seems a bit more upper class than “salon”)?
There are lot of terms for that sort of thing. (Back when I was younger, the term “Trustafarian” was used a lot for people who “lived bohemian” because everything was paid for.) Latte liberal was another one, though TBH that well’s poisoned now (with the whole “if you stopped going to Starbucks you’d have a house by now” bull).
Joyce is a white poor fundamentalist girl so she was an easy target for Roz to feel better against. Except Joyce sheltered a gay teen, is a sexual assault survivor, and helped bring down her sister. I truly think that Roz doesn’t know how to relate to her now and can’t bring herself to empathize.
A lot of people on this sub are wondering why Sarah is talking about pre-requisites when most of the characters here are freshmen, so let me try and explain. The class does have pre-requisites, it’s just that everyone got them waved for one reason or the other.
Joyce: Like Sarah said, has been involved with multiple political events.
Becky: Has also been involved with political events and worked for a congresswoman.
Roz: Her sister was a congresswoman.
Sarah: Not a freshman, took pre-requisites last year.
Dorothy: This one is harder, but considering that it’s Dorothy, I imagine she somehow fulfilled the requirements either last semester or while in high school.
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← took a year of Calculus as an ELECTIVE bc the bizarre notion from out of nowhere that math is a REQUIREMENT for each year of school FOREVAR took hold sometime in middle school and never let go
Then you can count at least SOME of your time spent in school as an actual education, rather than simply paying someone to stroke their own ego via grad-students with loans that are worse than credit-card debt.
Ah ha ha, man, if you think math professors don’t stroke their own ego constantly you have clearly never taken a college math course.
“Oh yeah, Carl and I both have a Masters. Homer doesn’t though. He just showed up when the plant opened!”
“He ha I didn’t even know what nuclear panner plant was.”
…well now I have to look up what episode that’s from cuz it’s tickling my brain but I just can’t remember.
I think they were talking to Frank Grimes, so “Homer’s Enemy”?
Yup, that’s the one! 🙂
That also has this gem!
“Because from now on, we’re enemies!”
“ᵒᵏᵃʸ. Do I have to do anything?”
….wait, what was the “.5”?
Well if both Ross kidnappings add up to the 2, then the Ryan thing is probably the .5 as that’s the one where her identity probably wouldn’t have inherently been made public? Though it could also be the first kidnapping due to the fact that she was slightly more adjacent in that one. I dunno, I would have just said 3.
I think it’s more because politically/publically speaking, Ryan was connected more to Amber and Sal and Robin. Joyce was a foundation of the underlying/preceding event but, as far as the later, actual “politicized event” went, she wasn’t involved. Hence, she had a tangental connection to the politics of the matter rather than a full one.
To rephrase that: Normally you’d round her assault event DOWN, not up, given its lack of direct connection to politics (assuming the assault victim themself didn’t pursue later political discourse based on the event). But, it WAS tangental to a political event (not just Robin’s rally, but possibly also to overall crime on IU campus [of which there seems to be A LOT] and of campus assaults in general and of continued misdeeds by those associated with the church and of who-knows-what-else).
It’s reasonable to indicate that politicized event, being tangental to her own history, doesn’t give her leverage into having a direct association with politics but, at the same time, may have led to her being invested enough in the associated politicized event to have compelled her involvement in politics.
In short, of 0, 0.5, and 1, 0.5 seems most accurate, but 0 would also be reasonable. 1 seems unsupportable, given that she didn’t actually participate in the immediate environment of a political event herself.
Originally, I read it as 25.
She was caught *almost* making out with some guy named Maynard while at a party. Just before she was forced to “cut a b–ch”. ;p
Timeskip. We’ll never know.
joyce is me in all my classes next semester because I love registering at 8 am
That is the greatest mood in college
8am? Wow, you slept in.
I remember trying to register just as the gates opened and it STILL being a hideous battle royale
There is no greater tool in college than a class schedule slide rule
Joyce, that is a MOOD.
Okay, the meaning of mood has definitely shifted. From “emotional state” to “approach to life” if I was guessing from context. Unless this is just a cultural reference I’m ignorant of on account of being old.
“That’s a mood” has become slang in recent years for “this is an experience/state of mind that I strongly resonate with, having experienced it myself.”
Which one’s the 0.5?
The skipped Hallloween party. It was skipped, hence the point-five.
Ryan, the amazing human knife storage block. Hard to remember since Joyce kept piling fresh trauma on top of it.
She supported the campaign for IU Pesidency of Fuckface.
Surely Willis wouldn’t have skipped that. And how could they have lost?
Maybe there’s an office somewhere on campus with SCIENCE EXPERIMENT in big letters.
“Surely Willis wouldn’t have skipped that. And how could they have lost?”
The other candidate was a cute possum.
Its always “why is Joyce here?” And never “how is Joyce?”
Well whenever Joyce isn’t on screen all the characters should ask “Where’s Joyce?”
Great crossover with “Where’s Waldorf.” (Or Stadler).
I’ll go you one better: *When* is Joyce?
I’ll do you one better, *Why* is Joyce?
What is Joyce?
Becky, don’t hurt me!
Don’t hurt me, no mo
And now we’ve basically completely [mis]quoted the entirety of Haddaway’s What Is
LoveJoyce. Seriously, there’s only like two non-repeated paragraphs of other lyrics in the entire rest of the song.No, I don’t know why, but this seems fair.
You gave me your memes, but I don’t care
So what is Joyce? ..Well, so long!
(Gimme a mime.)
Who is Joyce?
Roz literally volunteers openly for Planned Parenthood in Indiana and literally exposed herself for the whole world in the same political landscape that drove Dr. Ford from her home but go off I guess Becky
By the way Becky’s little “white girl calling the Latine Planned Parenthood volunteer privileged” shtick got old, like, six hundred comics ago.
I’m not interested in “Becky is more privileged than Roz” as an argument, because comparing oppressions and sufferings sucks. I do think the comic’s “Roz is more privileged than Becky” take is every bit as embarrassing and cringey. Trying to spin either of them as ivory tower slacktivists would be obnoxious and petty. Right?
We’re talking about a gay girl who ran away from an abusive parent versus a girl from a well off and well connected family, there’s no argument here
We’re talking about a poor gay white girl and an upper-class straight brown girl and honestly I think I was pretty clear that I’m not having the argument at all because it’s a stupid argument to have. Willis shouldn’t be trying to make a comparison at all here. It’s out of his ballpark.
:starts an argument: “I’M NOT HAVING AN ARGUMENT!”
:starts further arguments:
..good grief. >.>
In the version of the comic I got, it was Sarah who was implying Roz was privileged based on family. Becky was implying she got in because she was notorious.
Dont forget to add “homeless” to Becky’s list, as she spent quite some time without a home.
If you did not want to have the argument, maybe you should not have started it.
I think Robin and Roz are closer to ‘olive’ than actual non-whites. Didn’t Willis say that? It could’ve been their previous incarnations or I thought I remembered something that was never said.
Either way, the DeSantos’s all look like they can pass for brown, and I can picture bullies calling Roz the ‘W’ word during her K-to-12 days, whether she’s partially or wholly white or not. Wondering if her dad messed around like with the original Roz….
I’m not sure what “olive” is in this context, but I suspect it still qualifies as non-white. This seems a pretty awkward take.
Skin tone. Olive skin is a term referring white people with a more beige tone of caucasian that gets it’s name from how people from Southern European nations along the Mediterranean Sea. It’s also called Mediterranean caucasian, according to Google.
This, if it is the case with the DeSantos’s, would contrast with Joyce and Becky’s more ruddy/alpine or “pink” caucasian skin tones, associated with Northwestern European nations, in how similar it can look to ‘caramel’ skinned people who are brown or black.
That said, olive, like ruddy, counts as ‘white.’ Unless you’re Ben Franklin, in which the only ‘white’ people are 100% British Isles and naturally goth-level pale…
Unless you get it from an ancestral mix of white, black and native as many Hispanics do, in which case, it’s very definitely not white.
It’s certainly possible the DeSantos qualify as “Hispanic white”, rather than “Hispanic non-white”, but I don’t think that’s been established either way and it’s not really a skin color distinction anyway.
I’m confused when I hear people call Roz’s family well connected and well off, like, have we gotten any indication that anyone in her family other than Robin is well off? A sister whose only relationship to Roz seems to be showing up to use her as a prop now and then? Does Robin support her family in any capacity? Like are there Roz and Robin family strips that happened that I just don’t remmeber
They’ve been implied to be wealthy, or at the very least alumni. This makes Roz a bad hypocrite, even though she clearly dislikes and tries to distance herself from her family just as much as all the other characters in DoA with bad rich parents.
I can’t remember anyone who ever actually knew her family implying that…I know the dean who hates Robin had to hang out with Robin at one family weekend or something, but I don’t know what advantage having a sister who the dean clearly dislikes would give Roz. I need to go back and look for any strips with their family.
I have yet to hear about a congress person without connections or money.
Not outright confirmed, but definitely implied.
Only person I heard who ever implied that the whole Desanto family was routine was Mary. But that’s fucking Mary and her opinion in other people’s morality and virtue isn’t really all that credible.
You know Becky’s the redhead, right? Not the grumpy one named Sarah who made a comment about Roz’s family connections?
…Sarah’s the one who called Roz privileged, Becky seems to be more trying to make sure she knows what Roz’s politicized event is.
In fairness, this isn’t the first time Becky and Roz have interacted with this “Becky shows up to shittalk Roz” framing, and it grates on me even in these small exchanges. That said, dismissing what Roz did as “banged that dude” with a smirk clearly isn’t Becky just asking in good faith. Becky’s trashtalking Roz. That’s what she literally does in every scene Roz appears in.
Dismissing… how? And smirking? Really? She’s not. Never mind that Becky handles nothing with any kind of nuance, and Roz opened this exchange up by questioning Joyce being in a poli-sci course for literally no reason.
As for Becky trashtalking her in every scene. What the fuck? No, she doesn’t, and not without Roz starting shit first.
Roz says the semester that had a good chunk of the floor kidnapped, on top of an active shooter situation on campus, and a stabbing outside their dorm as “went well overall.”
Before that? Becky was doing her job as Robin’s campaign manager, and she immediately went into telling her to both not help her sister, pulled her usual Holier than thou bullshit she did on Joyce and also her whole “I’m more leftist than you but I won’t say how” bullshit. She doesn’t trash talk her until Roz actively started talking down to her.
Before that Becky just told Roz to give her a heads up when Roz decided she was collateral damage, and before that, the first time they interacted, was Becky inviting Roz to Joyce’s party without any trashtalking.
I I took it as Becky sticking up for her beloved Joyce, whom Roz implied didn’t belong in that class.
Why not? Roz is taking a tone that sounds like interrogation with Joyce over how she’s ‘not supposed to be here’ even if she really means ‘how is she paying for 4-year college after what went down with her parents?’
I can see how Roz THINKS she fits the pattern Dorothy, Sarah, and Becky have for being here, but feeling strongly about what are basically pretentious equivalents of blasting your music on your car stereo with excessive bass in a quiet neighborhood doesn’t make it any less such.
I’m pretty sure Roz is smart enough to know how to ask Joyce properly what motivates her interest in political science, if that were her actual goal.
Literally their first interaction is Roz shouting Joyce down for being a naïve religious fundie.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/petals/
Maybe Roz is getting these snapback attacks about privilege because she keeps initiating them? Like she did with Becky last time this subject came up? Or this time when she’s implying Joyce doesn’t deserve to be here?
How has she initiated them? And how is she implying Joyce doesn’t deserve to be there? She’s asking what Joyce is doing there because Joyce has never expressed interest in upper-level PoliSci courses.
They are second semester freshmen. I highly doubt its upper level. Registration probably fills up with poli-sci majors pretty quick though, and with Joyce being an Ed major she would’ve had to snag an overflow seat for elective students. Hence the registering at dawn.
2 things make it seem that way…
– that Roz asks why she is in Nicklson’s class.. emphasis on the professor makes it seem like there is something special about taking a course with him. (Are there courses at that university that restrict enrollment to students with a certain history?)
– the way Sarah listed Joyce’s background made it seem like she was picked to be in the class
There is basically zero chance that this is anything but a 100-level class. Becky is in her first term, she couldn’t meet ANY prerequisites if the class had any, as she’s taken no classes. This is, therefore, a 100-level class, though this specific section is taught by a person with some degree of fame.
But Sarah’s here, and she’s at least a Sophomore. Maybe she did a bunch of gen ed classes for her Freshman year? Maybe she’s here because of the speaker? Maybe we should repeat to ourselves “it’s just a comic, I should really just relax”?
But it’s required that each of us has to pick a character to go off on each time they appear. It’s a rule.
I picked the Sensitive Scanner but they haven’t shown up yet. Who could have guessed that the Booster Rod would have been first.
I seem to recall Leslie chiding Roz for talking over the homeless gay teen.
That was Dorothy, not Leslie.
Well, there was also that time Roz was on a tirade about LGBTQ+ people being marginalized and silenced, while she ignored Leslie repeatedly telling her to stop.
This strip and the following one:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/outrage/
Sorry, the one after the one after that. (I was filtering by “all comics with both Leslie and Roz in them” and the one in between doesn’t meet that criteria.)
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/curriculum/
Yenklette, there’s a difference between ‘how are you here, Nicholson’s sections are super popular and fill up fast’ and ‘how did YOU get in HERE’. The former is an honestly curious question. The latter strongly implies an unspoken ‘you shouldn’t be here’ or ‘you shouldn’t be allowed’.
The latter is literally what Roz said, by the emphasis on the words ‘you’ and ‘Nicholson’s’ in her speech bubble. The former is what you wish she’d said. I wish she’d said it too, but she didn’t.
@anon
Actually, Yenk seems to be wishing Roz had said “This is an upper level course, you need appropriate qualifications to be here. I’m surprised you’re here, given that this isn’t your major, so I’m politely enquiring as to your presence here, as I find it rather startling given the typical requirements for course entry.”
That is to say, completely redefining not just the context, but also Roz’s character. But yeah, as the last panel indicates, it was just in the context of “This class is popular” and Roz being petty about who can sit at the “cool kids table”.
Being petty about who can sit at the *cool kids table* sounds like Roz.
She has more in common with Carol Brown that either of them would ever admit. Proof that what should be a *source* of empathy, compassion and moral growth can be used as a form of diplomatic immunity from the consequences of lacking those things. The both of ’em…..
Tip for social interactions. Learn to read subtext.
My prescription doesn’t allow it – I have to borrow my wife’s reading glasses.
Didn’t know that volunteering at planned parenthood automatically cleansed away all of my shortcomings and sins. So I guess it’s the modern day version of buying an Indulgence?
I’m not saying Roz is volunteering at PP so that she can see which conservatives come in for info about abortions in order to make their lives uncomfortable after, but that would definitely be in character for her.
Sarah is the one engaging with Roz, Becky just chimed in with one of Roz’s better known political events.
Maybe she’s there because she wants to be Roz, people take much more ridiculous courses while they’re in college, so chill.
Why would anyone want to be Roz?
So they could have sex with Joe, obviously.
So they would have a nice younger sister.
Who loves cereal.
Getting adopted by the Saruyamas is an alternate means to this end.
Bumping Roz off and taking her place has a certain elegance though.
I think she’s more confused about the prereqs. Last she knew, Joyce was basically here to kill time before finding a husband, and this class is clearly being indicated as, like, a higher-level or harder-to-enter course. It’s valid to be confused.
I personally think Roz is just, as usual, judging Joyce as the naive white christian girl and just waiting to hear a ‘I thought it would be cool’ and give the speech ‘This matters to people, and you did it because you thought it is cool?!’ and that blah blah blah that you hear a lot in college when you pick up random courses for the sake of it.
Add to that, there’s no way this is a higher-level class. It seems to me quite clearly a 100-level class with no prerequisites. Everyone except Sarah is a freshman, and this is Becky’s first term as a student. (Sarah is in this section because she didn’t take it as a freshman.
I mean, the class fills up fast because the professor is A Big Deal, but this is the kind of class you take to fill general Ed requirements and think the subject matter won’t make you want to die of boredom. To my mind what Ruiz is doing here is walking into a section of, like, French 102 and being all ‘wait, you don’t want to live in France or be ambassador to France, who let your unworthy butt in?’
This brings back memories when I took Koine Greek classes and all the soon-to-be Bible scholars looked at me, the student from a completely different course, as if I shouldn’t be there (in reality, I shouldn’t those classes were available as electives by accident and people didn’t fix it… So classes I had)
But the point that people judge others as being unworthy of attending certain classes stands and Roz is famous for being a gatekeeper (Do any of you remember when she was arguing no one was more leftist than her?)
I took poli-sci and macroeconomics to fill US history requirements as part of Running Start in high school. Specifically because I like numbers and math but history classes make me dream of death. (I’m informed that I have just had horrible history teachers, and I imagine that’s fair.)
I do not regret it. Both of those classes were fascinating and thus genuinely educational, where traditional US History would have been naptime and a C average at best.
” It seems to me quite clearly a 100-level class with no prerequisites.” It seems weird Sarah, who is in it and would know if it has pre-reqs, would then say ‘maybe they waived them’ instead of ‘there are no pre-reqs’ then
I’m not sure what level Roz actually is at, but outside of the sophomore, we’ve got two second-semester Freshmen, and one first-semester freshman, so… it’s 50/50 as to whether or not there are pre-reqs in the first place, and at least at my college classes that had pre-reqs had those noted when you went to add them.
Then again, I didn’t go to IU so I have no idea if they do that.
Frankly it seems odd that Roz would ask how a fellow second-term freshman got into the same class that she herself is in. Roz, too, would know if there are pre-reqs, and furthermore seems to have zero surprise that Becky (who as a first term student who cannot possibly meet any pre-reason) is in the class.
Does Joyce somehow have fewer class credits than the actual zero Becky has?
But if all Joyce had to do to get in was be first in line, clearly there are no prereqs (at least none that she didn’t already satisfy). I don’t understand Sarah’s comment at all tbh.
Fwiw, I also think it’s valid for Roz to question why Joyce the education/MRS major is taking up a seat in this class that is highly sought after for its content/professor—but Roz is being REAL rude about it.
Yeah, honestly, I’ve… started to just kind of tune out the “Roz is having x bad tone problem” issue because it’s just sort of Willis insisting on framing everything Roz does in the most unsympathetic way possible. I get that it makes people wonder why I seem totally oblivious to the Obvious Jerk Roz is being, though.
Like, it’s not that I don’t think Roz has been rude, it’s that I see it more as the author warping her original personality to be a punching bag and I hate it and it has seriously ruined my enjoyment of this comic and I feel obligated to defend Roz at this point on principle.
So. Mondays, am I right?
In short, it’s been really rough to have Roz be my favorite character, because she hasn’t been written well since, like, the Robin In Leslie’s House arc, if even then. I really want Willis to just snap out of it and write her with the empathy and attention to layering privilege she used to have, and to stop using her as this weird allegory for privileged leftists.
The Roz who reached out to offer Joyce support, braved a media storm around her own body, and was clearly immensely hurt at the suggestion she would sell Becky out simply is not the Roz who tells a dorm full of traumatized college students “last term rocked because we won the election”.
It sucks and I don’t know what to do. So I just keep trying to defend her, because, like, she shouldn’t be written this way. It’s not faithful to her characterization, it’s a Flanderization of her deepest flaws as being all she ever is. It sucks! But maybe I’ve just become the woman who shouts at clouds at this point.
I think it really galls me to see the people who’ve always hated her—often, in my opinion, unfairly—gloating because now she’s being portrayed the way they always saw her: as an unfeeling privileged rich kid who just pursues politics for attention and has no remote perspective or nuance or empathy.
That’s how they always saw her. It’s not who she used to be.
It’s really ironic to me that we had a whole arc partially dedicated to acknowledging that the sex tape wasn’t for attention, it was an act of political rebellion committed by a woman who felt like she was being wielded for political interests she deeply opposed… and now we’re being told, “No, it’s just Middle Child Syndrome, she just actually wants attention.” Like, it’s a step backwards.
She’s a complicated character! She’s flawed! But literally the only scenes we get with her nowadays are her being this mean bully for Becky to trashtalk. I literally can’t remember the last scene with her that didn’t also contain Becky making fun of her. She fell by the wayside a long time ago.
(It’s also funny to me that we’re being told by the comic that Roz’s problems and political events are petty… by the measure of Willis’s own increasingly absurd and escalating narratives involving supervillains, the mob, and armed kidnappers. Like, her sex tape wasn’t trivial five books ago, but obviously a character like Roz is going to seem petty if you’re introducing “oh yeah half the cast has experienced at least one kidnapping and at least 1-2 cartoon car chases” into the mix.)
Interesting points, especially the sex tape vs. supervillains contrast.
You think her personality has been warped, as opposed to she’s become more curmudgeonly after the events of last semester?
It’s a serious string of losses for Roz:
1. Didn’t get to bang Jacob.
2. Barred from further videotaped sexcapades.
3. Had to attend Robin’s campaign event.
4. Demanded Dorothy-and-a-friend’s attendance at a party w/ a sexual predator.
5. Repeatedly stepped over the line w/ Leslie in class, and was rightfully called out for it.
6. Failed to sabotage Robin’s campaign after it was revitalized by Becky, and then when Robin quit the campaign it was again because of Becky, so Roz’s skullduggery was irrelevant.
7. Failed to get the RA job she was gunning for.
8. Has been living with Mary for a whole semester.
Yeah, I’m comfortable saying that Roz has become kind of an asshole after all that. Doesn’t mean she can’t continue to evolve, nor does it mean she’s the only asshole in the room at the moment, but I think there’s a difference between “Roz is being a real douche lately” and “Willis [is] insisting on framing everything Roz does in the most unsympathetic way possible.”
This is character development that hasn’t actually been reflected on, so I am inclined to say it is not deliberate on Willis’s part. If we got literally one scene from Roz’s point of view, I might see it differently. I think it’s a good reading—Roz is clearly really isolated right now, and basically everyone at the dorms seems to dislike her, and her family’s pissed at her, and she’s probably still getting r*pe threats months after the election, so she’s probably having a really hard time. But… we haven’t seen her hurting from any of that. A lot of it is stuff you have to kind of read into. You’re doing Willis’s work for him.
I also think she’s just been way more cartoonish. It’s not just that she’s a jerk, it’s that she’s started saying things like “No one’s more leftist than me!” It’s like somewhere down the line Willis decided he wanted to use Roz to Say Things.
Also, she didn’t need to be more of an asshole. She was already incredibly polarizing as a character. You can’t just keep turning a character into a heel and expect the audience to remain sympathetic without giving them *something* sympathetic to latch onto. So if it’s deliberate development, it seems to be done with the intention of making people hate her.
Which they do! I’m literally the only person in this comments section defending her at this point. Everyone else got tired.
*almost literally, someone else showed up.
Hey Yenklette, idk if you’ll see this, but you’ve convinced me. Most commenters take characters as Willis represents them as a given and evaluate them on those terms, but not every representation is good. Or fair! Or even good for the story. I think it’s valid to be upset about what is being done to a character who had potential rather than being upset at a character, as if they’re real people or something.
Yeah I don’t get what Roz’s problem is with Joyce being there. Maybe she just thought the class sounded interesting.
More likely, she thought sharing a class with three of her best friends, in a course that satisfied some requirement and looked decent, sounded interesting.
College course on how to be Roz
In a corner of her mind, Roz is going ‘man if I was kidnapped, I bet I could have spun that politically so HARD.’
I’m here because I paid my bazillion dollar tuition and they’re obligated to teach me the classes I signed up for snce I’m gonna live miy life in debt anyway. Might as well learn the shit I want to.
*plays some Dave Brubeck on the hacked Muzak*
With inflation, is it now “Take 12?”
When Dorothy becomes president her staff are going to be terrified of Joyce. No matter how closely they watch her, no matter how tight the security she’ll still just appear nest to the president out of nowhere and act like everything is normal.
AYKM? Joyce is gonna get her own Secret Service detail, as First Best Friend (Totally Not A Wife Or Anything). “Deuteronomy” will be her Secret Service codename.
I really dislike Roz. Her ‘what are YOU doing here’ rings to me of ‘you don’t deserve to be here’ with maybe/probably a side of ‘you’re too backwards and stupid’.
You are not the gatekeeper of college, Roz.
close – she’s the gatekeeper of progressive activism. or so she claims. loudly and often.
That is *exactly* what she’s implying, which is why Sarah metaphorically rips her in half.
She kinda sucks in all universes.
The frustrating part is that she doesn’t suck all the time here, she just has a really aggravating (and mostly unearned) sense of superiority and apparently the firm conviction that tact is for OTHER people. There’s lots of evidence that somewhere in there is a genuinely kind person who wants to make things better.
Like… she doesn’t even have to Not Judge. ‘Oh hey Joyce. I didn’t know this was your thing, what’s the story?’ is exactly the same question as ‘what are YOU doing here?’ But the former can be heard as friendly curiosity while the latter just puts people’s back up.
This Roz knows how to people, but chooses not to. It’s worse than if she was just cluelessly abrasive.
She didn’t say, “What are YOU doing here?” She said, “Joyce? What are you doing in political science?”
That’s how I did all my classes. I scheduled everything out and then went in at like 5:00 AM to make sure my schedule was set.
Best semester was when I had two columns of classes on Tuesday/Thursday.
And an 8:30 on Wednesday.
And a 5 day weekend.
I did NOTHING with it.
The five-day weekend sounds like something Walky would do. But then he’d be downgraded to recurring character.
Is it me, or is Sarah’s comment a total non sequitur? Roz seems to be asking how someone who has never shown an interest/doesn’t major in the subject matter got into an extremely competitive class in that subject (it’s not like dorothy’s aspirations are getting her special treatment, so she’s clearly questioning Joyce’s interest). Her phrasing was real rude, but…Joyce actually exactly answered her question. And clearly there are no pre-reqs that had to be waived since getting in line first did the trick, so Sarah’s comment just seems really, really weird and off-base.
sarah’s just being a big sister in response to roz’s unwarranted hostility to joyce being in the same class
I guess we just have to assume that Roz’s tone of voice was somehow super mean and perhaps had farty noises in it or something.
She’s almost sneering.
If there are no pre-reqs, Roz’s question is inherently answered, Joyce is there because the subject is interesting to her in some way and she knows people who are going to take the same section, thus Sarah is giving a sarcastic answer to a bad-faith question.
If there are pre-reqs, likely not due to at least three freshmen being in this class, then it’s a blunt answer to a rude question.
Now the emphasis in the statement could be on Nicholson, who’s supposed to be some notable cable tv talking head according to two strips ago, and the question could be about “why with this specific professor” but then the question should really be how not why, due to said notable punditry.
It’s a non sequitur to “What are you doing in political science?”, but not to “How’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”.
That’s sort of a non sequitur to the first part of Roz in that panel, since she’s commenting on why the others would want to be there, but then shifting to how Joyce got in.
I’m assuming Sarah is unhappy of her grade from this class last year so she’s retaking it?
She also may have opted to take an Incomplete on it given the kidnapping happened right before midterm exams. Not sure how that would impact her scholarship but they probably wouldn’t want to take that away for the same reason.
(I did not remember what class we actually saw her take last semester.)
Do we know she took it last year?
I find it possible that this is a course that is offered every other year rather than every year. A bit less than half the class may be sophomores, mostly tied with freshmen, with other years and non-traditional students rounding out the roster.
Okay, new comic’s up, time to read it and then scroll down to participate in the comment’s sectio-
… is that Roz?
….. yeah, best to keep out of the comments section tonight.
CRAP I’M ALREADY WRITING A COMMENT ABORT ABORT ABO-
did somebody say “abort”?
Maybe someone did. I chose Retry.
Sarah, as usual, is all out of fucks to give.
I mean, it’s obvious she’s there because Dorothy is, right? What’s Roz so confused about?
/joking
I think that’s probably true. Dorothy is there, and Becky is there, and Sarah is there, and Joyce probably has gen ed requirements to fill.
It may well be interesting subject matter to Joyce in its own right, AND it’s a way to engage with her friends regarding learning said interesting subject matter. Sharing study time with Dorothy/Sarah/Becky rather than that time being closed off. So really, the question is why wouldn’t Joyce be there?
That’s pretty much my assumption.
No but seriously, why wouldn’t Roz have guessed that? She’s here because her friends are here.
[extreme salt because I need to go to bed]That sounds like what a character would assume, and Roz is just here to be a jerk so Becky can dunk on her.[/salt]
…. how many days between the shooting and the kidnapping were there?
According to the wiki timeline, 24 days.
Roz growing up in Indiana wondering why a fundie (hidden atheist) is learning politics. Okay.
Let’s face it, Joyce already knows everything she needs to say to succeed in Indiana politics.
I’m with Joyce. I always registered as soon as I was able (usually around noon for me).
As for Roz, she’s a gender studies major, so I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain amount of political science is required (or at least recommended) for her.
But… if you can get into a course by registering, how could you tell that you are special by being in that course?
By still being in that course after the deadline for a “W” passes.
“Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point”
-Panel 5
So Roz just can’t even exist without being attacked now? Asking how and why someone who doesn’t seem interested in the subject got into a seemingly competitive class.
I mean it IS a bit rude.
I mean maybe if the tone to her voice that we can’t hear is super rude, but we can’t hear it. I mean if someone who I had never seen show interest in baseball suddenly joined a team I may ask them what’s up. Even if the answer is just ‘I wanted to try something new’
Due to the limitations of the medium, Dumbing of Age sometimes struggles to get across key atmospheric elements—like how an ominous French horn plays whenever Roz is on screen.
Well Damn. Gonna have to wait for the animated series to fully experience that then.
It’s good to see the one other Roz Defender left to roam this wasteland. Godspeed, traveler.
I thought it was a trombone with a mute. And it substituted for whatever any of the professors (who are not Leslie) said.
The way the dialogue was phrased low key came off as “What is a amateur doing here.”
The boldface text is subtle, but this is literally Roz’s dialogue:
“… Joyce. What are you doing in political science? Sarah wants to go into law, Dorothy wants to go into the presidency, Becky’s got that scholarship… …But how’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”
Charitably, she’s inferring that Joyce doesn’t need to be in that class since she’s not majoring in politics. But judging from Sarah’s defensive-for-Joyce retort, the tone implied by “how’d you get into” came across as pointed gatekeeping.
Also, it’s Roz. At some point you’ve seen enough of a character to make an educated guess about what they’re doing.
I’m not sure how to read ‘how’d YOU get in HERE?’ as anything but mean and/or catty? Certainly, even less sure when it’s as a response to a smiley friendly ‘hi Roz!’
If the response had been ‘Joyce. I had no idea this was your thing, what’s the story?’ That would be something else. That could be mean/snotty tone, and it’s the exact same question, but that phrasing in no way implies mean/judgemental the way the emphasis on YOU and NICHOLSON’S CLASS does.
TBH, I do sometimes find it hard to tell the emphasized words vs the regular text. I can in this strip, but maybe other people missed it?
It’s possible! And honestly that makes a lot of sense, thank you thank you.
I’m quite nearsighted, so I’m generally right up close to the text, so boldface jumps out at me, that may also be in play.
You’ve made up dialog Roz didn’t say.
Which part? Obviously the “if the response had been” part and the other was paraphrased, but Roz does say “How’d you get into Nicholson’s class?”, with the “you” and “Nicholson’s” emphasized, so it seems close enough to me.
She can if she stops making an ass out of herself, that’s usually how it works.
But what about the prereqs?
There are none! If there were, Becky couldn’t be in the class.
Becky was briefly the successful campaign manager of a Notable Local Politics Person, so if there are prereqs or recommendations she might have had them waived as well. (Though Joyce’s comment does imply it’s all less dramatic than that and Sarah was just generally defending Joyce’s right to be there.)
Who gives a shit why she’s there? Let a bongo learn, jeez.
A lot of classes has limited capacity and registering just because your friends are can really screw over a lot of people who actually need those credits for graduation.
You should go to bed if you haven’t already.
Also, Joyce really doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would register for a class she completely didn’t care about. Especially given that she registered as quickly as possible. It would make more sense to assume that she has an interest than the opposite, and people who need those credits for graduation are usually given preferential treatment anyway and/or should make their own efforts to register early. It’s fruitless to yell at people who just want to explore and learn new interests, or imply they don’t have a right to.
You’ll be pleased to know I did go to bed right after I posted!
Joyce is only in her second semester. She also needs the credits for graduation. It also probably fulfills a core requirement.
A few days ago, she said it fills a humanities credit.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/rda/
Wouldn’t the students who are required to take this class get priority over students looking for a class, anyway?
This class is big enough that it really should be in the big lecture hall, but said lecture hall is not available because mural. That tells me this is more than likely a basic course, albeit the basic course that majors should take rather than a basic course geared to, say, STEM majors filling gen-Ed requirements. Therefore, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s more than one section of this course per term, and it’s taught every term.
To conclude: there’s pretty much no chance that Joyce taking this class means someone else will never graduate.
Joyce isn’t responsible for anyone else’s education.
Not yet, but that’s why she’s going to college.
In Our school, the Registrar’s office weights it so that upper class members get the classes they need to graduate “on time”, and the rest of the slots ar weighted for sophomores before freshmen’ but this seems to be an anomaly: 101 level class taught by ‘Someone of Note’.
Nobody’s asking Roz to be Joyce’s teachable moment.
I kind of feel bad for what Roz has been turned into over time in DOA, the only time I expect to see her is when she is angry about something and then Becky is there to make some irritating quip about it. Even moreso frustrating because you know Roz actually cares about what she does while Becky is just there because shenanigans. Becky has no interest in politics and has literally fallen into it and it must be frustrating for Roz when she is actually trying.
This time she’s not even angry though its just a remark on Joyce being in the class and both Sarah and Becky jump on it like instantly
I mean I’m probably pretty biased anyway because Becky has been grating to me for a while but it would be nice to see Roz without there being some kind of argument
Seriously what is the deal with this whole thing that Becky is “always there to make a quip about Roz.” They’ve been in the same strip, including this one, 16 times, and about half of those were Roz talking down to her because Robin hired Becky as a campaign manager.
Also, when has Roz been “turned into” anything? If anything, she doesn’t seem to have progressed character-wise.
“If anything, she doesn’t seem to have progressed character-wise.”
I can only assume “turned into” was meant as a “she had potential, but look how it was wasted,” rather than as being intended to reference any actual perceived development.
I think Roz may have a certain antipathy for Joyce in particular. From a certain viewing angle, Joyce got her in trouble in a class. Joyce’s best friend, who showed up uninvited mid-semester, undermined her own sabotage efforts for her sister. There are lots of people who hold a grudge without re-evaluating whether or not that grudge has, or still has, merit.
I think if it’d been Walky, do-nothing Walky, sitting in that seat, Roz would have walked on by without comment. If it’d been anyone else, except possibly Mary, I don’t think she’d have had a problem with it.
In which Roz suddenly realises that she’s no longer the spokesperson for the oppressed and the radical causes in the room. She can’t handle that, obviously and follows the historical precedent of trying to become the oppressor instead.
To explain, I’m wondering if Willis is making Roz a metaphor for the TERF (Transgender-Exclusionary Reactionary Feminist) movement. In essence, she’s facing a changing landscape of who is an who isn’t suffering from social and political exclusion; who is who is not being oppressed. She’s somewhat failing to keep up and is deeply resentful about the debate having moved on to others and their problems.
Also, as Booster said, there is a ‘Middle Child’ issue in t here too.
Well, an interesting dynamic I’ve realized is, minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on. Some portion of those pushing female rights put value on traditional gender concepts, as part of their push for equality.
That is to say, “There’s males and there’s females, and females are being pushed behind males, and that’s everything there is.” They never look beyond that dynamic, and so they overinflate the concept of minorities to exclusively be a binary arrangement between males and females. Race, sexuality, gender just doesn’t factor in [for that subset of individuals I’ve personally come across].
Even more than that, I’ve come across homosexuals who despise, mock, and bully asexuals- because the very existance of someone who changes sex into something of varying value comes across to [this subset of individuals] as a threat. They’ve spent their lives basing around the concept that sexuality- or rather, the specific manifestation thereof- is of critical importance. To hear that there’s something outside of the binary dynamic they’ve established comes across to them as diminishing everything they’ve fought for.
Which, once you grasp onto the basis of these irrationalities, really puts both politics (at least in a binary political system like the US) and historical conflicts into a certain painful perspective..
Ugh. Missed a qualifier at the start. “minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on.” should be “some of those within minorities loathe it when any other minority infringes on the concepts the first minorities have put value on.”
Women aren’t a minority…
Finally, the edgy comment has arrived.
Not numerically, but in all the other ways the term “minority” implies. It’s a poor word for the concept in many ways, but it’s the convenient one we have. Women are a slight numerical minority, but have a distinct minority of wealth and power. They are routinely discriminated against, with an even worse history of both legal and social discrimination.
“marginalized group” or something like that, if you prefer.
Huh. I thought women held a slight majority in numbers. Mostly due to not getting killed doing stupid stuff as often, or working the particularly hazardous jobs in the same numbers.
According to Census.gov’s projections from back in 2005, in 2000 males outnumbered females from age 0 to about 34, an females outnumber males thereafter. Their projections for 2020 were that males would outnumber females from ages 0 to 44, and females would outnumber males thereafter.
It does appear that more boys are born than girls, odd. Now I’m wondering at the reasons. I wouldn’t think our country was engaged in selective abortion, or working sex-selection methods. Maybe in-vitro?
https://www2.census.gov/library/visualizations/2005/demo/2005-us-region-poppyramid/52pyrmdus2.pdf
Not that I disagree with the rest of your point. There is a continuing cultural bias toward males in power and authority, and at least one legal restriction was still in effect no further back than 50 years ago.
Honestly, I’m interested to find out what makes the fact that this is “Nicholson” so valuable. It’ll be interesting to see if 1) it’s actually depicted as a course (Leslie’s class was… more of a freeform discussion group/therapy session/stage for character drama sorta thing than what I’d call a ‘course’) and 2) if Nicholson isn’t just made of straw.
I mean, given the setup, it might be interesting to see it be really rigorous, have Sarah and Dorothy (as prep machines) be better off than Becky (who is just burning off an obligation, she said so) or Joyce (who, yes, just sort of ended up there because that’s where the cast is rather than being depicted as interested in specifically doing that material), then everyone having to deal with that.
Aside from that, Becky jumped up because someone bothered Joyce, and That’s Her Girl,
DottyRoz, Leave Her Alone. That’s been established.“I’m interested to find out what makes the fact that this is “Nicholson” so valuable.”
His first name is Jack. Enough said.
Or Jenny.
Today’s lecture is about Porgs.
“I’m interested to find out what makes the fact that this is “Nicholson” so valuable.”
Next strip: Professor “Doc” Nicholson enters the room.
Nah. Professor Doc looks like Christopher Lloyd, so all his students started calling him “Doc” around the time Back to the Future premiered. It stuck over the last 35 years, to the point where even the faculty calls him that and has largely forgotten his real name. But hey, he’s tenured so he doesn’t care.
So says my headcanon, anyway.
Political Science of Flux Capacitors 106
He was noted to be some kind of pundit two strips ago, so it’s likely that which makes him so valuable.
Joyce is staring because she can’t even see the blackboard from there.
Love how flagrantly Roz just clearly resents Joyce’s presence in a political space because Joyce isn’t woke enough for her. She’s the exact kind of person to then go crying about it when people like Joyce don’t have political education later. If Roz were sincere about a damn thing she’d said in this entire comic she’d be head over heels that someone like Joyce is educating herself.
Y’know I (brown immigrant woman in America) am also instinctually wary of naive white girls in spaces that mean a lot to me. It’s not that they are incapable of learning — it’s that often their learning is exhausting and upsetting for people around them and I’d just like to be spared that please.
What’s so wrong with somebody trying to learn better than they’ve been taught? Are people just expected to keep being ignorant because they have more to learn?
What I said: naive white people “learning things” is often a burden on those around them
What you heard: naive white people should be ignorant forever
What I heard was “They need to learn, but I don’t want to have to put up with them”. In short. NIMBY. (Or is that NIMCR, Not In My Class Room).
Well, what’s the alternative? You’re calling it a burden, and people typically want those to go away.
Whoa guys, she said she’s wary of them, not that they need to go magically learn somewhere else or whatever, and that’s a totally valid reaction to naïve, exhausting white girls in those spaces, as they can tend to ask/use really offensive language/behavior. Then when you try to gently point out that isn’t okay, they somehow feel attacked and start arguing about it, just like you guys are doing here.
This isn’t a space that Roz gets to be protective of. It is a class offered at the school she has never attended before. If it was your ethical debate club you personally started, I could more get the instinctive defensiveness. But this isn’t something Roz has even a measure of control of, so she doesn’t get to imply that Joyce doesn’t belong or act like a secret gatekeeper that gets to decide who belongs. Sometimes… people take classes that interest them and that’s it.
Obviously Roz doesn’t have any standing to say Joyce doesn’t belong in a college classroom? I was responding to the claim that minorities who are “sincere” in their politics should necessarily be delighted when naive white people are trying to educate themselves in whatever way.
Wow okay, but that wasn’t the claim at all. You just warped it so that you could stand on your favorite soapbox.
Joyce is not only a white girl, Roz is not only a brown person, and simplifying these (or any) characters down that down that is a major disservice. Furthermore, a political science class exists for people to learn in. I hope you aren’t doing this everywhere you go?
It’s an interpretation of the claim to some extent, but a reasonable one based on what was said.
I enjoy Roz in the strips, but man to do the comments get exhausting when she shows up
Frustrating as it might be for Roz, I‘d say a lot more people are remembering her video with Joe than her campaigning for planned parenthood (if anyone remembers at all). That’s how people’s minds work. To get remembered for campaigning for planned parenthood while still doing a Joe video, she should have inserted that into the video.
So, for once, I‘m not even sure how deliberately annoying Becky is being here.
I really like Roz. I think she’s one of my favorite characters in the strip and want to see more of her as part of the main cast. I like her significantly more than Dorothy, who I have always felt was rather bland. However, I think Roz is meant to be a foil and low-level antagonist for Joyce. I also don’t think you have to make every person hostile to the protagoniusts to be a hate skink of misogyny and homophobia. In this case, Roz is a perfectly well meaning activist.
She’s just mean. In this case, Roz keeps her judgement of Joyce as a fundamentalist homophobe despite the increasing evidence. Joyce is the ENEMY and the fact she’s a sexual assault survivor, has sheltered an LGBT teen, and been subject to DOMESTIC TERRORISM no less than TWICE washes over Roz because it doesn’t fit her preconceptions.
Accepting someone has changed or you were wrong about something happens.
“I really like Roz [as a character concept]” feels more in line with what you’re saying, there. 😛
I mean, unless you like mean, stubbornly blind and hostile people, I guess. You do you~
~.^
Teasing aside, I feel Willis throws Roz in a bit too neatly. She’s nearly always just there to be shallow for the sake of a punchline or eliciting information. She doesn’t have moments of just being there to be nasty or otherwise bothersome, to revel in her shallowness.
In that regard, she feels less impactful and meaningful to the story than someone like Mary and, certainly to Malaya, who actually has elements of subtle character depth in conjunction with her shallowness [ie, her view towards relationships, gender, etc].
We don’t really ever see Roz establishing any subtleties or interesting relationship dynamics, like we do with Malaya and, even against Mary, we never really see her as a steady influence to the story.
She just comes in, says a few mildly annoying things, and then leaves. It’s always just a superficial disdain for her sister, a superficial acknowledgement of Joe, and some snide snubbing of Joyce. There’s never any real connection to other characters [in the sense of, say, how Mary gets under their skin or puts pressure on them or reall influences how the characters interact and grow].
In the end, while Roz’s concept is solid, I definitely feel it’s underutilized in terms of developing the character herself. Mike, for example, managed to have a clear influence on other characters even during the earlier strips when he was just engaging in shallow ribbing. Then, we got insights into his background and hidden depths, even if we never really got clear explanations on anything.
Roz, on the other hand.. hell, the other characters would talk about Mike fairly regularly, even if just to make “Ugh, that guy” statements. But Roz really just gets brought up due to her sister. She’s.. that bratty sister of the person people actually have interest (negative as it may be) in.
Which, y’know.. is exactly the position that Roz seems to hate most. It’d be a lot more interesting seeing her getting frustrated over that point and expressing some depth or at least interesting interactions, rather than just acting like a poorly commited, two-dimensional bully all the time.
(To be clear, I’m not saying Roz needs to be changed. She works great as a tool for the overall narrative just as-is. I’m just trying to establish why I find her lacking as a character. ie, as a response to “I like Roz [as a character / character concept]”. Even more so as a response to “I like Roz” alone. :P)
Lowkey, I hope Roz sharing a class with the others again this semester gives more space for screentime again – Leslie’s class eventually dropped off the radar as shit continued to escalate, but Roz is genuinely an interesting foil for Joyce, Becky, and Dorothy in various ways. (I do think she’s become used as a Holier Than Thou type as the Completely Uncompromising Political Youths have gained prominence – looking at you, third party voters of 2016 – but I also think that in-universe, it’s clear having to room with Mary’s sapped all the patience she had for people remotely like her. We know from the replacement RA arc she textually finds it torturous. I hope she got reshuffled offscreen as an excuse to give her back some depth with the accompanying space to breathe.)
That said I also suspect this is a lecture class given the implications about size, so we probably won’t see a ton of anyone participating in class itself. But we do know Joyce valued Roz’s input and perspective way back when, and I’d like to see her grow again.
Also on the subject of Dorothy: Oh am I looking forward to her hitting her breaking point. (And then building herself up again of course but seriously, it’s no fun when characters don’t snap under authorial pressure from time to time!)
If there aren’t pre-reqs for this course, Roz’s question in panel 2 (implying it’s hard to get into) doesn’t make sense.
If there are pre-reqs for this course (as suggested by Sarah’s comment), Joyce’s explanation for how she got in doesn’t make sense (unless I’m missing something about how course enrollment works in undergrad).
Seems to me like this is just sloppy writing in a narrative sense and the intention here is to establish characters as one thing or another. Specifically, Roz as someone who’s self-aggrandizing, a gatekeeper, oblivious to her own privilege, etc. This seems like poor use of Roz’s character to me, and it’s a little worrying that Willis is so keen to make a dumbed down generalization about progressive activism that the sequence of events implied by dialogue becomes confused and contradictory.
I mean, if a class is super popular it can be pretty hard to get a spot if it’s not required for your major, hence Joyce saying she got up at the crack of dawn? At my college we had some classes like that, where enrollment would fill up in minutes – you’d have to be ready to enroll right when registration opened at 8 am (practically the crack of dawn for college students!) or you were gonna have to wait till next semester
Yeah, it’s probably a sought-after class. I bet registration is first come first served, seating all the political science and law students first and then backfilling any vacancies with others who signed on.
Roz could have come across a bit less judgemental, but A. that’s fitting and B. it opened her up to that dig from Sarah.
i feel like the people complaining about how Roz is treated in the comic have never been on the parts of twitter or leftbook where everyone is basically too busy comparing privileges and oppressions to get anything done or have a real conversation.
she’s not really an exaggeration. she’s even less annoying than a lot of interactions i’ve seen.
also willis has defended some of her controversial/unpopular actions outside the comic, but all readers obviously aren’t going to see that.
oh also she’s ~18 and basically everyone sucks as a teenager.
Or maybe they’re actually progressive activists who know leftbook is just for shitposting 🤷🏾♀️ Those exist, you know. And even get things done.
Problem there is, the people who don’t think that weave it into their narrative as “proof” of “what rAdIcAl LeFtIsTs ACTUALLY believe!”
And frankly if your shitposting undermines your actual advocacy, maybe you’re not as good at as you think you are.
I tend to think most of the shitposters aren’t really getting much done elsewhere. Or they are doing some direct stuff, but they’re also really serious about the posted arguments.
I think Roz has evolved into a caricature of “no true Scotsman” social media leftists, the type who were posting grouchy “I held my nose and voted for them but [politician who was just elected] isn’t left enough” memes on November 7th. She’s argumentative, even with people who mostly agree with her, runs off with her own assumptions, and comes across as supportive of progressive causes for performative as much as altruistic reasons. (I bet her social media feed would be full of “look at me and how supportive I am of [worthy cause]!” selfies. Remember when she wanted Ruth’s RA job for the perk of getting a single room, but played it up like she wanted to help the floor?)
Don’t get me wrong, I think we would have been better off if Al Gore was elected in 2000 or if Bernie won any time since then, but why do you think Republicans control the overall narrative? We’re pinned down under friendly fire while they’re out goose-stepping in unison.
Not even a caricature. More a mild version, if anything.
Those are self-caricaturing.
You’re not wrong.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/hailmary/
This is Dumbing of Age, after all. Roz has her own particular dumbness, as any other character. The webcomic seems to be largely based on the author’s personal experiences, so I guess that Willis has had to suffer his fair share of Roz-like characters in real life. But I like how he manages to keep her likeable, making many of us root for her improvement. C’mon, girl! You know you can do better!
So does Dorothy have a (possibly unconscious) Zifmia spell for Joyce, or does Joyce have a (again possibly unconscious) Aimfiz spell for Dorothy?
Or is it both (which raises many other questions)
🙂 🙂
Is this a Discworld thing? Usually when internet people use a made-up word I don’t understand, it’s either Discworld, Monkey Island, or Dresden Files.
They’re common in interactive fiction games, ie, text-based video games akin to classic Zork or Adventure. Zifmia is a summon-target spell, and Aimfiz is a teleport-to-target spell.
See, I’d make a comment about FFXIV here, but the only option that allows for this sorta warping involves the in-game equivalent of marriage. And that then offers the option of Dorothy warping to Joyce as well as vice-versa.
The Ring of Eternal Bonding is one of my favorite items in the game. It’s so convenient and saves so much time, i’d recommend people use the free Ceremony option just to get it.
I don’t understand the confusion over the pre-req thing.
Roz begins by asking why Joyce is there and mentions the others have relevant majors.
Then she asks how Joyce is there.
Joyce’s answer is that she applied early. Presumably, right after it opened.
This tells me the class is one of the ones where its first come first serve for majors, then, if there happen to be open seats, for the randos.
Sarah’s comment is probably sarcastic and/or suggesting the professor manually put Joyce on the priority list. Eithrr way its a dig at Roz for being a gatekeeper or being less deserving to be there.
Besides, Joyce is an education major. Wouldn’t she need at least a somewhat-higher-than-baseline knowledge of most commonly-encountered subjects?
Honestly, after the last few years I think everyone needs a refresher course in civics and home economics. Maybe we can resurrect Schoolhouse Rock to make music videos about how elections work and why you don’t need a $75,000 pickup truck as a daily driver because you buy mulch once a year.
To be fair, Joyce’s reasoning is probably the one I can most relate to.
Finally, the honest one.
“I am only taking this class, because I registered for classes, at the last minute, and this was the only one available.”
Say what you will, at least Joyce is not going to BS you.
I think it’s the opposite, in this case. She got up early and snagged a popular class when it was first posted as available. Probably Because it was one she could share with three of her friends.
I’m going to guess, from the other comments by the characters, that there may have been two tiers of enrollment, with declared majors getting a chance to call dibs, and Joyce getting in after all those seats were filled.
I guess it depends on how you view Joyce’s, “crack of dawn”, statement. If you go by the idea that she registered as early as possible, she would then also need to know Sarah’s, Becky’s, and Dorothy’s schedule; otherwise, it is just a stab in the dark. But if you go on the opposite end, where she hastily threw a schedule together at the last minute, then it becomes a happy coincidence. The later seems more plausible, because if she really did register for classes early, then the class would not have been available, as it would only be open to just poli-sci/law majors.
This is bringing back unpleasant memories of college registration….
*soothing male voice, in robotic tones*
“Welcome to CAPTURE, CAl Poly’s Touch-tone User REgistration system.”
“Please enter your request now:” BEEP BOP BOOP BOOP BOP
“The section you requested is – Full – no other sections of this class are available. Please enter your next request now:”
REPEAT AD NAUSEAM
“Thank you for calling good-bye”
Phone trees are proof that evil exists in the world.
robo-calls are just the follow-up so you don’t forget.
Roz and Mary are more plot devices than characters and I am fine with that. Let them get their own comic if they want to be lead characters. Tag and Bink made it work (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_and_Bink) and so did Gwenpool. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern too.
Now I have to re-read Tag and Bink. Thank goodness for libraries.
wait, why IS joyce in poli-sci? doesn’t she want to be a grade school teacher (or something like that?) is she JUST here because she saw a class that becky, dorothy AND sarah was in and absolutely needed to get in?
It fills Humanities credit. Presumably it’s one of multiple classes that could have, but her friends are in this one which is just the icing next to the cake. (It’s also good for narrative purposes.)
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/rda/
I think Joyce is questioning all of her previous life decisions.
^ Joyce’s character arc in a nutshell.
Sarah looks so unhappy to have Roz around. Probably she consider her really annoying. Or is the unspoken attraction she has for Joe?
I’m not sure I need it explicitly explained to me why Sarah would find any random particular DoA character annoying. It’s like asking why Walky ate one particular well-known brand of junk food.
Unspoken attraction…from Roz or Sarah?
Cause Roz only diddled Joe for the video and he was an easy choice.
Sarah does NOT like Joe. At all.
Joyce is the one with the unspoken feelings, if anything.
I feel like everyone is collectively forgetting that it has been explicitly established that Sarah does not like Roz. All this debate over who said what and how in a conversation where we can’t actually hear tone and we’re forgetting the fact that it is well within character for Sarah to automatically assume the worst of what Roz meant. We can argue whether or not Roz’s past actions are sufficient justification to assume she meant it in a rude way, but the simple fact of the matter is it would be weird if Sarah suddenly decided to pay attention to that nuance rather than defaulting to “it’s Roz, she’s being rude.” It’s not uncommon for people to be less inclined to listen to people that they don’t like. The actual likely attitude of the people around Sarah and Roz is a “well here we go again” attitude.
well, html continues to hate me
Wait you can italicize?
Yes, the valid HTML tags and attributes are listed below the comment box. You can bold, italicize, and strike text, indicate something is a quote, citation, acronym, or abbreviation, and you can create anchor tags. You can also use the del tag for some reason. I’d think that’d only make sense if you could edit comments but it’s there.
Roz seems like what we’d call in my language a “salonsocialist”. I guess limousine liberal in American (though limousine seems a bit more upper class than “salon”)?
There are lot of terms for that sort of thing. (Back when I was younger, the term “Trustafarian” was used a lot for people who “lived bohemian” because everything was paid for.) Latte liberal was another one, though TBH that well’s poisoned now (with the whole “if you stopped going to Starbucks you’d have a house by now” bull).
A more hardcore version is the Champagne Punk. 🙂
“Champagne Socialist” is the one I see the most.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_hmrL9szhw
Damn Roz, why’re you so obsessed with Joyce?
Joyce is a white poor fundamentalist girl so she was an easy target for Roz to feel better against. Except Joyce sheltered a gay teen, is a sexual assault survivor, and helped bring down her sister. I truly think that Roz doesn’t know how to relate to her now and can’t bring herself to empathize.
Or a much simpler version:
“Roz feels very unimportant and shallow in her activism versus all her associates’ ordeals.”
A lot of people on this sub are wondering why Sarah is talking about pre-requisites when most of the characters here are freshmen, so let me try and explain. The class does have pre-requisites, it’s just that everyone got them waved for one reason or the other.
Joyce: Like Sarah said, has been involved with multiple political events.
Becky: Has also been involved with political events and worked for a congresswoman.
Roz: Her sister was a congresswoman.
Sarah: Not a freshman, took pre-requisites last year.
Dorothy: This one is harder, but considering that it’s Dorothy, I imagine she somehow fulfilled the requirements either last semester or while in high school.
Maybe got a letter of recommendation from the campus paper?
Probably CLEPped it.
Except that Joyce says she just signed up early.
Hello, Newman
Joyce being ready to register at the crack of dawn is just one of those things that is very on brand for her isn’t it?
Good on you, Joyce, for getting into that class, especially how you had to do it.