I think that ever since meeting Joyce Sarah looked upon her as a ‘little sister’, and the incident Lumino refers to is where she finally accepted and acknowledged the fact – especially when you look at some of the sniping and bantering back and forth, which is also in keeping with what one finds among siblings, real or self-appointed.
Yeah, I’ve never shipped Joyce/Dorothy* but today I discovered I could totally go for an alternate universe where Joyce/Sarah is a thing
*(apparently, despite Joyce’s theoretical bisexuality mirroring my own non-theoretical bisexuality, I am very invested in Straight Joyce? Like, for Becky’s sake? It wasn’t you, honey, she just isn’t into ladies! …If I thought this about real people, it would be uncool, but they’re fictional so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
I don’t know why but them all waxing philosophical on garbage roof feels like then end of story moment to me. Maybe with a stinger for the next chapter. Just saying.
Yeah I believe there’s still more story to tell, but this does feel like a big bookend to not just this story but an entire era of DoA to me. Most if not all of the characters have changed and are in a significantly different and in my opinion better place in their lives.
Each book chapter is about three months of strips, according to the archive. This chapter started on June 24, and it’s August 30.
I know it feels like an end of book moment, but we still have about three weeks to go. And we still haven’t seen the repercussions of Blaine’s death on his family, or his former employers…
Did everyone who’s thinking the strip is about to end happen to notice he has strips done through December 27? So even if it does end, we’ll at least have about four more months.
IIRC Willis tweeted a while ago that the next book/chapter will be kind of a “soft reboot”, and that makes sense. We’ve seen some of the bigger conflicts of the first 10 years resolve (or start wrapping up), but there’s still unresolved plot threads. All the new art is winter-themed and there’s snow everywhere, which hints at a bigger time skip than we’ve seen before.
It does seem like it’s happening, unless it’s a big meta fakeout. I’m not entirely sold on the idea. There’s so much in play a big time skip is going to be weird.
Sarah needs to discover that “Stockholm Syndrome” was largely made up by a guy who twisted the facts of the case study because he couldn’t accept that the hostage in question (a woman, of course) was right and the cops were wrong. Clearly, her disagreement with the police was because she’d formed an unhealthy psychological bond with the criminals, not because the cops were about to get everyone killed out of stupidity.
That really was a fascinating case when the details became more publicly known, in the sense of “How To Completely Fail at Your Jobs”. It was bungled from start to finish by a staggering combination of incompetence and arrogance.
Scanning the Wikipedia article on Stockholm Syndrome, I’m gonna highlight:
1) there’s a 2020 book that makes thes same accusation Dave is making, so it’s a likely source for his claims;
2) the DSM has never included it, but not necessarily because it’s not a thing;
3) the Wikipedia article is really badly designed, having decided to drop an entire section on child psychology into the mix to give the entire concept some semblance of weight.
As a completely untrained rando, I’m inclined to agree with Dave. It’s caught on in popular imagination, but there appears to be no real scientific basis for it, and certainly no rigorous definition for it.
Sometimes, stuff gets called after events that do not really fit in the end.
There a a number of reported cases of kidnapping victims cooperating with their captors (Patty Hurst comes to mind) and, you know, it sounds like a survival strategy that might even make sense under certain circumstances. Circumstances most people fortunately never encounter.
Well, for one, none of the hostages married their captors. One of the men did have many admirers after he was sentenced, because he was considered rather good-looking and the case was well-publicized. The woman he became engaged to while in prison was a woman who wrote to him while he was in prison. That’s actually not even that interesting. It happens with a lot of famous criminals.
The entire situation was just….not well handled. The hostages did sympathize with the robbers, but when looked at without the romanticism and urban legends that sprang up around the case, it becomes much more cut-and-dried. While they did threaten the hostages, the hostages said the robbers never actually did much to them. They were more afraid of law enforcement, who kept escalating the situation, to the point that they overtook the bank by using tear gas. And the robbers weren’t criminal masterminds. They were criminals, yes, but they were pretty much just average men. While holed up together, the two parties developed a rapport, is all. And one woman did have a friendship with one of the robbers afterwards.
There was no “falling in love with their captors”. There was no “insanity”. It was some hostages being critical of how law enforcement handled it, and not believing the robbers were the spawn of the devil. However, law enforcement was not looking good after the situation (the usage of tear gas, how long it went on, etc), and now the victims weren’t falling down on their knees praising them, so the reports got spun into “well obviously they just went crazy and we are Right and Infallible”. If I remember right, the doctor who coined the term never even spoke with the hostages beyond one conversation.
I feel as though Joyce has come to the realization that the narrow world-view she was raised with is so far from reality, it might as well have been like being raised in a box. Everyone seems to just know things she doesn’t. Parents are not infallible, divorce is not that bad, sex is a personal choice, etc. Things most eighteen-year-olds already know, she’s just learning, and I imagine she’s not only angry with her parents for everything that’s happened, but for not preparing her for how big the world really is, i.e. ‘raised wrong’.
But Joyce has a lot of kindness and empathy in her, and the ability to grow and learn. So some parts of her were ;raised right’. She just has to learn which parts those are, and which parts she’ll have to outgrow.
I love Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. There’s a lot of cynicism on Sarah’s part (for very good reasons, and honestly, will probably be very helpful when she’s a practicing lawyer), and a lot of naivete and fumbling from Joyce, but there’s also a lot of trust between them at this point, and genuine affection despite their differences. They’ve ended up being a good match for one another.
Well, since Joyce is quoting Wallace Shawn’s character, Vizzini, in The Princess Bride, as is the Alt-text, I’d say it’s referring to neither Dorothy nor Amber, but Joyce instead.
Actually, the alt-text is quoting Wesley’s line to Vizzini just before he responds with “Wait till I get going!”
Did I ever mention that ‘The Princess Bride’ is one of my favorite guilty-pleasure movies?
A “guilty pleasure” is a movie you KNOW is garbage, but you enjoy it any way.
The Princess Bride is in no way, shape or form any sort of “guilty pleasure!” It’s a great film and you have every right to enjoy it. (It is, in fact, that very rare occurrence where the film might actually be a little better than the book! The book is a classic, but tends to meander. The movie is tight.)
“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The First is, Never Get Involved With A Dad With A Gun, but the second, only slightly less well known: Never Go Up Against A Member of The Korean Mob When DEATH Is On The Line!! Mahwhahaha! Ahahahahaaa! Ahhahahaha! Ah-”
*Blaine falls over dead*
Becky: “To think, the whole time it was YOUR Dad who was the most poisonous!”
Amber: “Actually, both Dads were equally poisonous. I’ve spent the last few years building up an immunity to poisonous Dads.”
It may be my preference showing, but I think it’s cute that Dorothy likes Joyce just how she is. Maybe eve more than like too!
Panel 5 is so wonderful, though. I’m betting that Sarah never expected to get a beloved baby sister out of college but she seems to have done so! The world always seems better for having a triangular smile therein!
Dorothy has always been more focused on the good parts of Joyce than the bad parts, which might be one of the reasons Joyce has fallen for her so hard.
Sarah and Joyce’s friendship is easily one of the best, most wholesome dynamics/relationships in this comic and part of why I keep reading, even though this comic, while genius and awesome, gets very intense.
Getting ready to teach virtual classes starting Wednesday. Hmm, come to think of it, if IU had been doing virtual classes then Jason and Peggie might still have their jobs (until the rolling timeline moves the story past the deployment of a vaccine and then they retroactively go back to in-person teaching.)
I gotta tell you, that wind-swept look for both Joyce and Dorothy is pretty sweet. I wonder if it is too much work on Willis’ part to make it a permanent look.
It’s not the artwork, but trying to structure the plot so that there’s always wind around to tousle their hair that causes the real problems. Those big fans are EXPENSIVE to run.
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“This is Joyce-Lo. We raised her wrong on purpose. As a joke.”
Face-to-foot style! How do ya like it?
I’M FALLING! YOU’RE FALLING! WE’RE FALLING! MIIIIIIIKE
“I’m bleeding, making me the victor.”
Weeoeeeoweeee
My finger points!
My nipples look like milk duds!
Triangle grin intensifies.
In a moment it’ll be so bright people will mistake it for a UFO.
No, it’ll just infect Sarah. She won’t be able to properly grump for a week!
I think that last panel is the most tender I have ever seen Sarah.
It might tie with the “Little Sister” comment when she got Joyce home after nearly being raped by Roofie McScarredFace
I think that ever since meeting Joyce Sarah looked upon her as a ‘little sister’, and the incident Lumino refers to is where she finally accepted and acknowledged the fact – especially when you look at some of the sniping and bantering back and forth, which is also in keeping with what one finds among siblings, real or self-appointed.
Welp, too late to put that genie back in the bottle, Sarah. Your own fault whatever happens next. 😛
Including the sudden influx of joyrah fan art I’ve just been inspired to make in 2-30 years time
Yeah, I’ve never shipped Joyce/Dorothy* but today I discovered I could totally go for an alternate universe where Joyce/Sarah is a thing
*(apparently, despite Joyce’s theoretical bisexuality mirroring my own non-theoretical bisexuality, I am very invested in Straight Joyce? Like, for Becky’s sake? It wasn’t you, honey, she just isn’t into ladies! …If I thought this about real people, it would be uncool, but they’re fictional so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
Oh my god please do
do you have an account that you post that stuff on because please god enable me, I am addicted to cute gay romance
Comic up early, or is my clock just behind? Anyway, for Dorothy, her worser impulses include using the word “worser”.
Huh, my clock says 11:59. Whatever.
The server clock was adjusted a week or two ago. Posting time went from six minutes late to four minutes early.
Oh, NTP drift. How you dog my steps.
I don’t know why but them all waxing philosophical on garbage roof feels like then end of story moment to me. Maybe with a stinger for the next chapter. Just saying.
We have at least one more book coming, if you believe the archive tab anyway.
Yeah I believe there’s still more story to tell, but this does feel like a big bookend to not just this story but an entire era of DoA to me. Most if not all of the characters have changed and are in a significantly different and in my opinion better place in their lives.
Oh, for sure! The story’s going to take big turns. Everything’s changed.
Each book chapter is about three months of strips, according to the archive. This chapter started on June 24, and it’s August 30.
I know it feels like an end of book moment, but we still have about three weeks to go. And we still haven’t seen the repercussions of Blaine’s death on his family, or his former employers…
They *usually* end with 2 or 3 characters in their beds, thinking, reading, etc.
Well, it IS going to be the 10th anniversary of the first Dumbing of Age strip in less than two weeks.
Oh gosh. Willis wouldn’t just end it on a cliff hanger with us all going, “damn you, Willis” would he!?
Did everyone who’s thinking the strip is about to end happen to notice he has strips done through December 27? So even if it does end, we’ll at least have about four more months.
I thought he’d said in the past he intends to do this strip for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears yet. Because twins to put through college, yo.
I have three words for you:
Soggies may rule
IIRC Willis tweeted a while ago that the next book/chapter will be kind of a “soft reboot”, and that makes sense. We’ve seen some of the bigger conflicts of the first 10 years resolve (or start wrapping up), but there’s still unresolved plot threads. All the new art is winter-themed and there’s snow everywhere, which hints at a bigger time skip than we’ve seen before.
Surely we wouldn’t miss Halloween.
It does seem like it’s happening, unless it’s a big meta fakeout. I’m not entirely sold on the idea. There’s so much in play a big time skip is going to be weird.
So, soft reboot on the tenth anniversary? 9/10/20?
Book the whateverth: “Sometimes I feel like I was raised wrong, as a joke.”
Hell, I want it on a t-shirt.
This is the most toxic wholesomeness I’ve ever seen
Mmmmmaybe?
…. I think maybe this is the most wholesome toxicity I’ve ever seen, and Billie/Ruth is the most toxic wholesomeness?
Seriously. As toxicity goes, if Billie/Ruth are alcohol, this is like, not even marijuana.
And for wholesomeness, I’d say this even beats … hmm… Jacob taking Joyce to his church? Naaah, silly comparison, never mind.
(Disclaimer: Last I saw, marijuana may be significantly harmful to brains under 25 years old, which seems ironically unfair.)
Sarah needs to discover that “Stockholm Syndrome” was largely made up by a guy who twisted the facts of the case study because he couldn’t accept that the hostage in question (a woman, of course) was right and the cops were wrong. Clearly, her disagreement with the police was because she’d formed an unhealthy psychological bond with the criminals, not because the cops were about to get everyone killed out of stupidity.
That really was a fascinating case when the details became more publicly known, in the sense of “How To Completely Fail at Your Jobs”. It was bungled from start to finish by a staggering combination of incompetence and arrogance.
I’ve never heard of this! Would you mind explaining more?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrmalmstorg_robbery
Scanning the Wikipedia article on Stockholm Syndrome, I’m gonna highlight:
1) there’s a 2020 book that makes thes same accusation Dave is making, so it’s a likely source for his claims;
2) the DSM has never included it, but not necessarily because it’s not a thing;
3) the Wikipedia article is really badly designed, having decided to drop an entire section on child psychology into the mix to give the entire concept some semblance of weight.
As a completely untrained rando, I’m inclined to agree with Dave. It’s caught on in popular imagination, but there appears to be no real scientific basis for it, and certainly no rigorous definition for it.
Sometimes, stuff gets called after events that do not really fit in the end.
There a a number of reported cases of kidnapping victims cooperating with their captors (Patty Hurst comes to mind) and, you know, it sounds like a survival strategy that might even make sense under certain circumstances. Circumstances most people fortunately never encounter.
I was going to make a comment similar to Dave’s if he hadn’t, so here’s the relevant excerpt from the aforementioned book See What You Made Me Do: https://twitter.com/jessradio/status/1252579349187817473
Well, for one, none of the hostages married their captors. One of the men did have many admirers after he was sentenced, because he was considered rather good-looking and the case was well-publicized. The woman he became engaged to while in prison was a woman who wrote to him while he was in prison. That’s actually not even that interesting. It happens with a lot of famous criminals.
The entire situation was just….not well handled. The hostages did sympathize with the robbers, but when looked at without the romanticism and urban legends that sprang up around the case, it becomes much more cut-and-dried. While they did threaten the hostages, the hostages said the robbers never actually did much to them. They were more afraid of law enforcement, who kept escalating the situation, to the point that they overtook the bank by using tear gas. And the robbers weren’t criminal masterminds. They were criminals, yes, but they were pretty much just average men. While holed up together, the two parties developed a rapport, is all. And one woman did have a friendship with one of the robbers afterwards.
There was no “falling in love with their captors”. There was no “insanity”. It was some hostages being critical of how law enforcement handled it, and not believing the robbers were the spawn of the devil. However, law enforcement was not looking good after the situation (the usage of tear gas, how long it went on, etc), and now the victims weren’t falling down on their knees praising them, so the reports got spun into “well obviously they just went crazy and we are Right and Infallible”. If I remember right, the doctor who coined the term never even spoke with the hostages beyond one conversation.
Joyce has seen Kung Pow?
Big Sis.
and little sis <3
No Dorothy, the ‘rona doesn’t exist in DoA and we have to keep it that way…
D’aww, it’s so nice to see Sarah and Joyce being cute together. Albeit in small doses, I like Sarah to be 80% sarcasm and 20% realness.
Also the fact that Joyce thinks she might have been raised wrong is interesting. I wonder just how much she’s going to push in the opposite direction?
I feel as though Joyce has come to the realization that the narrow world-view she was raised with is so far from reality, it might as well have been like being raised in a box. Everyone seems to just know things she doesn’t. Parents are not infallible, divorce is not that bad, sex is a personal choice, etc. Things most eighteen-year-olds already know, she’s just learning, and I imagine she’s not only angry with her parents for everything that’s happened, but for not preparing her for how big the world really is, i.e. ‘raised wrong’.
But Joyce has a lot of kindness and empathy in her, and the ability to grow and learn. So some parts of her were ;raised right’. She just has to learn which parts those are, and which parts she’ll have to outgrow.
^this
If the screen doesn’t pan over to Walky and Amber aggressively playing tonsil Hockey…
Heh, I was thinking the same thing.
That seems just about right for how Danny’s night is going.
…alright, I know y’all trade in snark, but I’ve got all kinds of warm fuzzies for Sarah letting herself have friends again.
I love Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. There’s a lot of cynicism on Sarah’s part (for very good reasons, and honestly, will probably be very helpful when she’s a practicing lawyer), and a lot of naivete and fumbling from Joyce, but there’s also a lot of trust between them at this point, and genuine affection despite their differences. They’ve ended up being a good match for one another.
Sarah and Joyce sassing each other’s great.
The Sarah and Joyce stuff is so, so cute. 💜
It’s like a musical.
“I’m the one who hates all the people”
“I’m the one who renders that feeble”
“Together we’re the Roomies!”
Just about ready to tie it up in a bow.
I’m never sure if the alt-text is referencing Dorothy or Amber.
Whoever it is, she is not one to be trifled with, that is all you ever need know.
Well, since Joyce is quoting Wallace Shawn’s character, Vizzini, in The Princess Bride, as is the Alt-text, I’d say it’s referring to neither Dorothy nor Amber, but Joyce instead.
Actually, the alt-text is quoting Wesley’s line to Vizzini just before he responds with “Wait till I get going!”
Did I ever mention that ‘The Princess Bride’ is one of my favorite guilty-pleasure movies?
A “guilty pleasure” is a movie you KNOW is garbage, but you enjoy it any way.
The Princess Bride is in no way, shape or form any sort of “guilty pleasure!” It’s a great film and you have every right to enjoy it. (It is, in fact, that very rare occurrence where the film might actually be a little better than the book! The book is a classic, but tends to meander. The movie is tight.)
They’re both awesome in different ways.
I really miss the framing device for the book, but the asides describing what was left out just wouldn’t work in a movie.
“Wait ’till I get going! Where was I?”
“Australia.”
“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The First is, Never Get Involved With A Dad With A Gun, but the second, only slightly less well known: Never Go Up Against A Member of The Korean Mob When DEATH Is On The Line!! Mahwhahaha! Ahahahahaaa! Ahhahahaha! Ah-”
*Blaine falls over dead*
Becky: “To think, the whole time it was YOUR Dad who was the most poisonous!”
Amber: “Actually, both Dads were equally poisonous. I’ve spent the last few years building up an immunity to poisonous Dads.”
*sigh* Why doesn’t this forum have a “like” feature? Preferably one I could smash repeatedly to give your post the recognition it deserves?
sarah’s worst impulse is smiling where other people can see it
#tsundsarah
awwww, Dorothy in panel 3. That whole “Believe in people of our chosing” thing is really powerful
“Worser” is bothering me *far* more than I feel like it should be.
Don’t even get me started on people who confuse “worse” and “worst”!
Likewise, even if it’s a real word my brain doesn’t like it.
This is Garbage Roof
Up here, our grammar can be garbage.
I don’t know why. It’s a perfectly cromulent word.
Oof, but panel 2 is a mood.
Ahhhwww 🙃
I know that their relationship is sisterly
But now I feel like shipping Sarah and Joyce
#sistership – Sistershipping is a thing, right?
It may be my preference showing, but I think it’s cute that Dorothy likes Joyce just how she is. Maybe eve more than like too!
Panel 5 is so wonderful, though. I’m betting that Sarah never expected to get a beloved baby sister out of college but she seems to have done so! The world always seems better for having a triangular smile therein!
Dorothy has always been more focused on the good parts of Joyce than the bad parts, which might be one of the reasons Joyce has fallen for her so hard.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/mysterious/
I love them 🥺Even if they did do something pretty shitty earlier
d’aaaw
Sarah and Joyce’s friendship is easily one of the best, most wholesome dynamics/relationships in this comic and part of why I keep reading, even though this comic, while genius and awesome, gets very intense.
Also heck yes I got Dina!
There wasn’t a new roulette, was there?
Oh good. I really didn’t want to spend time figuring out how to unlock Formal Dina again.
I love this
SARAH CARES! SO MUCH! I LOVE!
That last panel is just so goddamn precious I don’t know what to do
Joyce’s hair looks fantastical in the wind.
Sarah is the best big sister. <3
Ah, quarantined! What a nice thing to be.
Getting ready to teach virtual classes starting Wednesday. Hmm, come to think of it, if IU had been doing virtual classes then Jason and Peggie might still have their jobs (until the rolling timeline moves the story past the deployment of a vaccine and then they retroactively go back to in-person teaching.)
Awwww…. Finally Sarah allow herself to be friendly and sweet♡.
Sarah is showing positive emotions on Garbage roof (around people in addition to Joyce)??? What’s next? Will she admit she likes Halloween?!?
This is the Sarah content I love to see.
Man I really need a Trash Roof…
i had to suppress a level of squealing which would surely have gotten me evicted
I gotta tell you, that wind-swept look for both Joyce and Dorothy is pretty sweet. I wonder if it is too much work on Willis’ part to make it a permanent look.
It’s not the artwork, but trying to structure the plot so that there’s always wind around to tousle their hair that causes the real problems. Those big fans are EXPENSIVE to run.
To be fair, they are both big fans of the other, so that can be pretty easily sorted out
“Worser?” I know Joyce didn’t go to a real school, but surely Dorothy did.
“raised wrong as a joke” #SAMEHAT ouch
lmfao
awww sis cuddles