I took it more as meaning in the past, since obviously, I doubt even his chipper parents are oblivious to Mike’s Mike-ness, so the dad saying this, I took to be him saying he always had faith in him being a good person at the core.
Though, if it’s a defeated “was”, then that’s really heart-wrenching, too.
Huh. I interpreted it to mean that he knew there was good in his son and is upset because this isn’t the way he would have liked to be proven right. Kind of an “I told him he was a good boy. He never let it show, but I always knew he was good inside.” I guess there’s a lot of ways that statement can be taken.
Given the context, I’d say the double past tense of “I knew our boy was good” more likely implies that George was aware of or believed Mike’s goodness a long time ago/in a long-term sense. While you could be correct in your interpretation, it seems a little odd for George to just give up hope and assume the worst straight off the bat like that.
It’s the stutter on the I that really emphasizes the context of doubt. Likewise, exact repetition, without an indication of increased emphasis on the repetition, generally is a reliable indicator that what is being expressed is uncertainty.
That’s a pretty standard way of phrasing a statement like that. “I knew our boy is good” mixes tenses and sounds very awkward, in addition to not making much grammatical sense(how did you know in the past something that hasn’t happened yet?), and also gives a slightly different implication (he IS good, but may not have been previously).
“I know our boy is good” is just a completely different implication/meaning. (I now know that he is good, but may not have thought so previously)
This just implies “he was already good, and I knew that, despite appearances”. There’s some possibility of doubt in the repetition, but the “was” is just standard grammar.
“They had a bit of time during the ride so they made a map of the interor of the chopper.”
So.. planning out the most expedient way of grabbing the parachutes and the best angle by which to jump off the helicopter without risking being hit by the blades? I dunno, that sounds like a pretty darn useful usage of their time to me. 😛
WHAT parachutes? The only time I’ve ever seen parachutes in an airplane is when they were being worn on the backs of people who had gotten into the plane solely for the express purpose of jumping out of it.
Helicopters don’t stock parachutes because they’re primarily low-flying, which means they’re not likely to ever have any reasonable opportunity for parachuting; Additionally, the blades are in fact puportedly a reason as to why helicopters don’t stock parachutes- an element I was attempting to tease off of, above. ;P
Ditto for commercial planes- if that plane is going down, you’re not going to try shoving dozens of untrained passengers out of an open door, you’re going to tell them to strap in and hope for the best. Rather, as far as I’m aware, personal jets are the only ones that come equipped with parachutes [stereotypically, if not in actuality] and Google states that private jets now typically have their own parachutes *for the jets* in place of personal parachutes. So yeah, not much hope finding a parachute in a plane (or helicopter).
Well, who knows. Maybe they spent the entire tip holding on to the feet of the helicopter, and base-jumped down to the hospital. I mean, they’re rich, and their son is in a coma. Why wouldn’t they? 😛
Odds are, they’re good parents (…you know, if only because odds are we’d run into at least *one* set of good parents by now! We’re due!), and that means… well, understanding your kid as they actually are, not as you think they are.
Mike’s got issues, it’s clear to everyone. I can see them just hoping that he was just acting out in ways, teenagers, you know how they are, when push comes to shove, he’s a good person, he’ll be good…
I don’t think major IRL natural disasters get accounted-for in comic book time as they occur. Though something as drawn out as the pandemic makes comic book time… interesting.
MAYBE in a couple of real-time years the cast will start mentioning it as something that’s done and past, the way they occasionally reference other real-world things. But otherwise, yeah, it probably shouldn’t
(Mom holds up a nickel. Then she shifts slightly, and a cascade of nickels fall out of the legs of her pants, scattering across the floor.)
(Mike’s eyes immediately roll back and he falls back into a coma.)
(I’m skipping to the end because the next bit’s too painful in context).
“I guess I’d better replace him then. Sorry squire, I looked all around and we’re fresh out of Mikes. How about an Alphonse?”
Amber’s mom’s alright, Richard (Joe’s dad) has a spotty past but seems to be trying to be a stand-up guy, even if Joe doubts it’ll last. Carla’s parents may be cool, I don’t recall meeting them, but she seems to like them. Sarah’s could be good or bad, I don’t recall her really getting into it.
Joyce’s dad is seemingly on a good path, but time will tell.
As Autism is no longer viewed as a disorder in and of itself, AD and ASD are no longer considered appropriate terms for general usage [versus simply Autism or Autistic Spectrum, respectively].
This is emphasized by the fact that AD still has usage in applying to the very specific [and in a sense, more traditional] application of Autistic Spectrum + Cognitive Disability/Developmental Disorders, and ASD similarly also sees some lingering utility in specifically referring to low-functioning or anti-social subsets of AS.
In other words, once you add the “Disorder” to the terms, you’re subsetting “Autistic Spectrum” into only the forms which are dominantely detrimental. It’s both unnecessary, and inaccurate, and can also be deemed as being [deliberately] inappropriate and insulting to the Autistic individual being referenced.
To simpify that, Dina hasn’t exhibited any signs of having any kind of meaningful impairment, and thus applying “disorder” to her should be avoided.
Besides, Autism isn’t even the most general or appropriate term to use in such a circumstance. Until clear sign is given that a specific label would be appropriate, it’d be best to refer to Dina by the broader label of Neuroatypical (Neurodivergent also works, but sometimes that’s specifically used to refer to non-Autistic variations of atypical neurology).
I freely admit my knowledge of how Autism-spectrum disorders are categorized is about 15 years outdated. If I’m getting stuff wrong, I promise it’s not out of malice.
In that frame of reference, if I had to guess I’d suspect Dina has (what was for decades called) Asperger Syndrome. She exhibits classic symptoms (encyclopedic knowledge of a narrow field, social obliviousness, and blindness to nonverbal communication, but she has neurotypical cognition and we haven’t seen her stimming). I’m honestly not 100% sure how that’s categorized now.
I think Dina’s written as on the spectrum intentionally by now (she wasn’t originally, but the change from ‘I wasn’t consciously writing her this way’ to ‘she’s not diagnosed’ as official Word of God while simultaneously being written with more frequent and noticeable autistic habits is noticeable). Speaking of, NeedfulDoer, that’s usually the phrasing used casuallt these days since Asperger’s is removed from the DSM and also most of us don’t want to be associated with a Nazi scientist. (You’ll also hear ‘high-functioning’ from some circles, but a lot of autistic people aren’t on board with the functioning labels for a variety of reasons.)
(I did not hear neurodivergent is starting to be used as an umbrella term excluding autism and ‘neuroatypical’ being the overall blanket term, so: since when? Who? Frankly, what the fuck? The term is attributed to Judy Singer, who described herself as ‘likely on the autism spectrum’, it’s been associated with us from the start. A lot of our major self-advocacy organizations use the term and consider themselves part of the neurodiversity movement. I thought we used it over ‘neuroatypical’ because neurotypical/atypical positions the latter as Other even beyond the ‘we’re defined by being outside what’s the acceptable norm of society’ bit that’s inherent. No, seriously, what?)
Yeah, like I said it’s been over 20 years since I was diagnosed and almost 15 since I’ve kept up, so my vocabulary’s outdated. I’ve clearly got some catching-up to do.
The only thing they did that was at all bad was fall into Blaine’s Trap Of Politeness and let him in the dorm room. Once they realized he did not have Amber’s best interests at heart, they apologized, and I think they helped at least a bit in the hall chase afterwards. When Dina told them she had a girlfriend they sent her date money. (And NICE date money, at that.) Saruyamas are excellent.
Dorothy’s parents are nice and supportive, yeah, and Sierra’s parents are AWESOME. Sierra herself is extremely comfortable and happy with herself, suggesting they were supportive of her growing up, and her dad immediately stepped in and tried to deescalate and/or stall Blaine when Amber left the room, shouted the ‘abusive cheater!’ backstory to the hall and ran. (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/blood/ Seriously Reno is the MVP of that hallway sequence. ‘Let’s all slow down’ he says while letting Amber get space and Ruth get her RA authority on.)
From what we know of Carla’s parents they are EXTREMELY supportive of their daughter (they 3D printed her an Ultra Car toy so that one would exist! Aww,) but also they own an Apple-equivalent tech company so… I would not be shocked if they are PERSONALLY very pleasant but their business practices are, y’know. Tech company billionaire. (Still puts them ahead of Billingsworth Sr., who uses money as a substitute for attention and affection, and Dargon Chesterfield, ‘cruel captain of industry’ who Jason CLEARLY wants to stay the fuck away from.)
Stacy and Richard are both trying, but their success records are… eh. (Stacy seems to have missed, for instance, that the anxiety disorder Amber mostly had under control post-Blaine – or at least dwarfed by the other issues this semester has dropped on her like many many bricks – was being actively triggered in the aftermath of the Gashface stabbing.) Still, good intentions, decent efforts, reasonably mixed success is still better than some. Hank is currently in about this area but I can see him going up or down in my esteem depending on how he handles things this storyline.
Sarah’s parents are complete unknowns, if she’s ever mentioned them AT ALL it is only briefly and of no real interest. Similarly we know about Jacob’s cool brother, but not his parents. But from what we can tell, two cool sons is pretty good track record, so. We haven’t seen Marcie’s parents onscreen either – the vibe I get from them is decent but frequently absent due to needing to stay financially afloat, and probably more than a little overwhelmed in the aftermath of Marcie’s accident? That’s pretty firmly in ‘vague sense and mostly headcanon’, though. And of course, Bonnie Macintyre and the Lessick parents seem to have been perfectly good people who their children remember fondly, but unfortunately they are dead.
Every other character who may have good parents is a bit part whose parents we haven’t seen or heard about in any detail. Sierra’s get that shoutout specifically because we saw them and in two strips Reno became one of my favorite bit players. We can assume that, say, Agatha’s parents are fine, but we don’t have a clue.
Oh, and cross-universe we know that Walkyverse!Robin and Roz’s mother was in over her head after their crappy dad left, and that said crappy dad staying as long as he did led to a lot of family turmoil as well, but when she and Robin mended fences she was a perfectly fine woman. No clue if that crosses universes at all, especially since ROBIN is so fundamentally changed. Willis has mentioned they believe Mary’s parents are perfectly normal people and Mary just went Super Intense, as well, but that is not actually strip canon until it’s strip canon!
If we’re talking cross-universe stuff, Walkyverse!Ruth’s dad (Dick Lesse) cheated on Ruth’s mom – with Billie’s mom, even. Mr. Hughes stated that Ruth’s father was “unfaithful” in this ‘verse; while anything he says is to be taken with a very large helping of sodium chloride, it’s still a possible indication that that particular trait may have carried over to Dumbingverse!Dick Lessick.
I always forget that! Yeah, we don’t have an unbiased source there on either side, so we’ll have to wait and see if it carried over. (Ruth’s depression here is clearly more about being orphaned than the disillusionment the infidelity caused, and we KNOW the other part of her tragic backstory doesn’t carry over – she was dating Ryan, who dumped her after sleeping with her and was not to our knowledge an actual rapist in that universe. The boy Ruth was dating in Canada is one she remembers fondly, and Clint didn’t mention any others.)
I figured Sarah’s family had been mentioned at least a little, but forgot the bit about her Nana! That does sound like a cool Nana. So yeah, the one real thing we know about Sarah’s family is ‘at least one member with authority is good.’
And in the strip with Reno, there is Blaine swearing he will get out of paying for Amber’s college, even if he goes to jail. (And Sierra is adopted? I did not remember that.)
You missed one. The dean. We’ve only seen him a couple times. Once stepping on Rozz’s sex video career by stating that any such activity was against dorm use rules, so she could take her sororicidal tenancies somewhere else and not get the school involved in family politics. Once at the parents day football game, where he is introduced as ALMOST Walky’s father. His son is a freshmen and refused to complain about having to live in the dorms, (because all freshmen have to live in the dorms; school rules), when Walky was showing someone around.
Also, it seems I misremembered the subtext of several of those. Notably it was only Walky’s position that he was almost-dad. Also, the dean says NOTHING about who is right and wrong in the DeSanto feud; only that the dorms are not a place for making pornography.
…the proper place for that is in the basement of the media studies building…
It’s too bad links that lead back to this URL aren’t whitelisted. It makes sense that a link to another website needs careful review, but why do callbacks to the archives call for moderation?
Have you considered whitelisting https://www.dumbingofage.com , and maybe while you’re at it, https://www.itswalky.com , https://www.bringbackroomies.com , and https://www.shortpacked.com ? Possibly also your personal tumblr and deviantart pages?
This comment never needs to see the light of day. It’s a message for the moderator.
Ah yeah and also Dina’s parents and Dorothy’s parents as others mentioned.
There are definitely a few others where half the parent team is good but the other is not (Amber’s mom), or a parent is sorta learning to be better (Joyce’s dad). And lots we haven’t met, like Sarah’s parents.
I picture Sarah’s parents being super sunny and social and cheerful, the polar opposites of her, as Mike’s are vs. him.
Let’s give the Warner’s a few strips before we make any judgements. For all we know they could be anti-maskers. And for the record I don’t think most of the parents are evil. Blaine and Ross not included most are just flawed people.
I believe that Ross thought, honestly and truly, to the very bottom of his being, that he was doing the right thing almost up until the end (when he turned on Blaine). That it was all for a good cause.
History has a long history of horrific, vile things being committed in the name of a “good cause”.
I don’t believe for a second Ross thought he was doing the right thing. I think he blanked out on what was good for Becky and used a lot of Bible quotes to excuse his lust for total power over her. It was all about what he wanted.
He slapped her in the car when AG showed up. And Becky had no real reaction to this. Though I admit, it’s not like there was much time for it. And then he said he was going to kill any of Becky’s friends who tried to stop him.
I don’t think Becky’s ever mentioned that he hit her since, either. And we know she buries trauma under goofiness and admits it never. I don’t believe it was an isolated incident, is what I’m saying.
So no, FUCK Ross Macintyre, miserable toe that he was.
Also, y’know, he KIDNAPPED HER AT GUNPOINT to take her away and have her gayness ‘cured’ and immediately tried to do it again once released. He had no respect for Becky as she actually exists (he called her a ‘thing’ at one point in that drive!) and all love was conditional on her fitting into a tiny box that would have stifled and killed her, and which I frankly think DID kill her mother. But like, I feel that even the people who can rationalize that can acknowledge that he LITERALLY PHYSICALLY ABUSED HER on at least one occasion, and that action is objectively bad.
Yeah, he’s not good, but he clearly thought he was, in a way Blaine wouldn’t pretend to. The bit that always gets me is when he takes the gun from the car and goes “Lord, give me strength” — he’s afraid he won’t be strong enough to use the gun to do what he has to. Which is beyond fucked up, but a different kind of fucked up from “Hey, here’s a hammer, I can use it to beat in the brains of this kid who might be a nuisance.”
I think what it comes down to is that there’s this painful thought that if someone had got to Ross at the right time, in the right way — and by the right time, I mean decades ago — he might not have turned out too badly. He clearly has a sense of morality, it just happens to be a fucking evil morality. It doesn’t feel impossible that that could have been channeled in a different, better direction. As opposed to Blaine, who’s just an asshole.
The weird thing is, I actually think this is more true of Ross than of, say, Linda. To date, I’ve never got the sense she’d be anything other than horrible, no matter where she existed.
I think we’re going a little off the rails if we’re arguing Ross is potentially better than Linda. Linda is awful but the bar is set a kidnapping, abuse, and ATTEMPTED MURDER!!!.
Hyperbole aside. I like to think there are tiers. And while parents like Blaine and Ross (maybe Ruth’s gramps whose name I can’t remember but I’m sure he was a tool) are at the bottom. Just above them are parents like Linda, Carol, and maybe Ethan’s mom who had a brief but not very endearing appearance freshman family weekend. People who I think do love their children but have very flawed beliefs they aren’t willing to compromise on for their kids. Which I think is very common for a lot of parents but the good ones will always put their children above that. In my opinion anyway.
I don’t think they meant that Ross is actually worse than Linda. Even as Linda’s #1 Rabid Hater, I think that’s too much. I think what they meant is that they feel that Ross could be better in some hypothetical alternate universe, but they don’t feel that way about Linda. She can be lower grade awful but still consistent across all universes.
I don’t think they are arguing that Ross isn’t WORSE than Linda but that Linda is far less… malleable. That if there was an alternate universe where someone told both Ross and Linda they were wrong at a much earlier age… that Ross had more capacity to change for the better, while Linda would have likely stubbornly remained the same. It’s a hypothetical as Ross for all his flaws, was stubborn just as much about the good lessons as he was about the bad ones so if he had been taught kinder lessons, it is easy to imagine him being a kinder person. While it isn’t as easy to imagine that for someone like Linda, though that could be true for her too, it’s not easy to imagine it. And that a painful aspect of Ross’s character is that we know in another lifetime he could have been like Becky or Joyce. That he had the makings to be a good person if he could have seen past the toxic teachings but instead he doubled down on them at every opportunity.
Hrmmm. I don’t know I kinda feel like this theory could apply to anybody though. I’m more of a nurture guy who believes a lot of our personality is defined by our memories and experiences so yes I guess Ross could have turned out differently. But I think the main difference between a Ross and a Linda is that Ross has been more fleshed out, examined, ect which you’d have to because he was a main villain who is now dead. You aren’t gonna get anymore opportunities after this to develop him beyond maybe a few flashbacks. Linda hasn’t really had the screen time to be deconstructed the same way. She just has the really bad few moments of her we’ve seen. We at least understand why Ross was a horrible man and so it’s easier to say he could change. We still don’t know why Linda’s a low key racist parent with blatant favoritism. We may never find out….although…with Blaine and Ross out of the picture DoA does need a new big bad. Sal’s a pretty popular character and I’d love to know more about her time between robbing that convenience store and now.
I think it’s a mix of nature and nurture. People can be predisposed to crappy traits and then nurture either discourages, redirects or nurtures those traits. I don’t know if Linda could be better in another world. I do think that the fact we know Ross was likely raised in a community similar to Joyce’s makes us more prone to think of what could have been with him.
If all you need to be a good parent is to have your actions theoretically be from a place of love then the only evil ones are Blaine and Gramps. And you could make arguments for both of them.
So, which dad is better, the one who knows he’s evil, and doubles down, or the one who deludes himself into thinking he’s good, and doing the right thing? At least the first is honest with himself, and the world.
Being honest about your evil isn’t better than being mistaken or deluded about being right and good. Being evil and remorseless about it is just… inherently worse to me. Being wrong isn’t worse than actively chosing to be evil and to do the wrong thing.
Which doesn’t mean either of them is good or excuse any of their actions but I think actively choosing to be evil is still worse even if both can have horrifyingly bad ramifications.
I think ROSS thinks that his actions are good. But at the core, his actions are guided by fear and loathing of HBTQ+ folks and has led to people getting hurt and him aiding an evil person, even a murderer.
The fact that Ross thinks that his actions and thoughts shows that he is a devout religious man that values family just makes him extremly misguided, not good.
If its a binary Good/Evil thing, Ross definitly falls on the side of evil.
Judging by how Mike’s turned out…I wouldn’t say they’re *good* parents. They may very well be good *people*, but I kinda suspect they’re *incompetent*, therefore bad, parents.
We don’t know enough of Mike’s backstory to really judge. There’s something really wrong with him and it was already there in the earliest flashbacks we’ve seen. It’s possible it’s just innate. It’s possible there was someone else in his early childhood who screwed him up. It’s also possible his parents bear some of the blame.
When we’re talking about the behavior of a child, it’s generally not right to assign full and exclusive responsibility to the child.
I think Mike is a well-socialized sociopath. He /Wanted/ to be good, so he modeled his behavior on “good”. Up to and including using a manipulable bisexual jock to get a self-deluded sexist teacher fired. Then he saw through Blaine, was threatened by Blaine in turn, and doubled down on being a jerk as a cover for keeping those he cares for alive and well.
What he’s like after he wakes up from his Phineas Gage event is anyone’s guess. I’m hoping for not drooling. I’m guessing probably drunkenly nice.
I said nothing about them bearing full responsibility, nor did I suggest that Mike is somehow not responsible for his actions. That’s ludicrous.
Them likely being the most important figures in his life up to this point in his development, and therefore having a sizeable role in his behavior? Probable.
They may very well have done everything in their power to make Mike the best kid he was capable of, and this might even be it. The details at present on his home life have been fairly faint, so we can all only guess. You’ve already read my guess.
Mike’s parents are a mood. You can theorize, but they seem happy and more loving then most parents, but they raised a Mike and the confirmation they have for their upbringing having rendered some goodness into him is the result of their “baby” having a grievous head injury.
Word of God is that Mary’s parents are perfectly nice people who are baffled at what their daughter turned into. For all the horrible parents in DoA, it’s nice to be reminded that some people are just assholes no matter their upbringing.
I b’lieve that their justification of his goodness is Not the injury, but that it occurred during the act of trying to save someone. Quote: “Because he came to my rescue.” That is why I b’lieve Mr. Warner was moved to say that.
I wouldn’t make too much of the “was.” Mike’s Dad is talking about Mike’s past and—no doubt—the many reports he heard to The contrary. I feel certain that—were Mike conscious and sitting up in the next room—his Dad would respond with the same words upon hearing what Amber just said. “I knew he was good, even when everyone was saying he’s a brat.”
You’re not WRONG… But i am curious to see what will happen when the time comes… Is it gonna end? Or is Willis gonna take the Glee route and stretch this into oblivion?
I think the past tense usage is because there might have been doubts about if he was good or not from others. Those doubts are gone now, and so, they are spoken in past tense.
Maybe not … the cruise could have been something they had saved up for, but like most parents — when their kid is in trouble, then hang the expense; we’re gonna get there ASAP and sort the piddly shit out later.
Not all cruises are expensive. Some are even “free”. Granted, everything is a la carte, there may be no air conditioning in the cabins, and you have to sit through a high-pressure time-share sales presentation…
That said, I’m guessing an “empty nest for the first time in 18 years” cruise, possibly even the long-delayed honeymoon. Mike strikes me as the sort to have won a full merit scholarship on his GPA or SAT/ACT scores, which may mean they had a little money laying around they no longer needed to use to put their kid through college.
“Cruise ship” could be upper middle class or maybe frugal, saving up for it middle class, yes – “chartering a helicopter” sounds like some full-on rich people stuff to me.
It does – though I’m not sure how the alt-text “chartered a helicopter” fits with the “flew home from the first port”. They certainly didn’t charter a helicopter to Indiana from anywhere you’d take a cruise. Possibly from the first port to a nearby city/island with a major airport?
Kind of curious… Could the uni or Mike’s parents or someone sue Joyce’s family’s Church for getting a dangerous criminal out on bond, when the first thing he did was automatically come back to harm the very people he assaulted/tried to kidnap the first time?
I mean, it’s an issue of legal costs, but the reason why they had to get Blaine’s money in the first place was because they didn’t have much cash, so suing them into the stone age might actually be achievable if someone like Joe’s dad/Amber’s kinda step-dad got involved?
First, they paid his bail. That doesn’t mean he released into their custody. Second, they’re probably not getting that bail back, so any lawsuit is probably blood from a stone. Third, I don’t think a church as a legal entity can post bail. They probably met as individuals and pooled their money for one fo them to go and bail him out.
Insofar as they knowingly supported a criminal conspiracy – approving of and, as a group, materially assisting Ross’s recidivism, above and beyond just posting his bail – they might all be on the hook for a LOT of felonies.
If they just handed Blaine a big loaf of cash, with no paper trail, it’s going to take some digging to tie it back to them.
I wonder if Carol unilaterally drew their joint accounts down lower than Hank would approve of. She can’t re-mortgage or sell the house if both their names are on it, but this could be the “sell the house and give all the money to the church” parallel…
The situation is complicated, but I’m pretty sure the worst thing they’re facing is not getting the money back. Maybe not even that – the purpose of bail is to make sure Ross shows up in court, and being dead is a valid reason to not be there.
Usually, though, there’s a “don’t commit any other crimes while on bond” stipulation, and he blew through that like a 100-meter runner blows through the finish tape.
“act”? I dunno about that, assholes can still do good things, doesn’t invalidate all the other assholery they’ve accomplished! My favorite asshole example in movies is Doc Holiday in Tombstone. He was an absolute ass, driven almost completely by his decadent and wanton desires, borderline chaotic evil in D&D terms, but even he had friends. Just not many. https://youtu.be/LRVhtVCfzo8?t=25
Mr. Willis, I noticed that there was a small piece of schmutz on my monitor and subsequently tried to scrape it off with my fingernail, only to discover that it was actually George’s lip quivering a bit in sadness. Fooled me completely! 🙂
The ‘was’ is clearly important, although most people are thinking they already assume their son is dead. I don’t think that’s what it means – I think they’ve been worried about their son for a while, ever since he stopped smiling and started acting the jerk. They hid their concerns under a perfect-supporting-parent mask, but they feared that their son had turned to the Dark Side. (They could be Star Wars fans, they’re old enough.) To hear about their son’s heroic act lifts a huge burden from their hearts.
Guys, the “was” doesn’t have a particular meaning, it’s just correct grammar. Mike’s dad says “i knew” because he is referring to what he knew before Amber told them what happened, therefore using past tense. The sentence fragment “[mike] was good” is being modified by the “i knew,” so it also has to be in past tense. “I knew he is good” would be grammatically incorrect.
This is simultaneously better and worse than I feared. There’s definitely something behind what he’s saying here, but it’s very clear that Mike’s parents love him dearly.
…C’mon Mike. Wake up. Say something snarky and cruel. Please?
Going back and watching the way Ruth deals with him and the way he looks back at her before he runs (shock/awe) is actually really cathartic after this most recent story line.
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Ouch
My heart
My thoughts exactly.
Like, I was sitting here debating whether or not to comment “Ouch.”
Drat. I thought I was going to be Ana today.
Think of yourself as Ana at the wrong time.
Truly Anachronistic
heyooooo!
Was?
That ain’t a good sign.
I took it more as meaning in the past, since obviously, I doubt even his chipper parents are oblivious to Mike’s Mike-ness, so the dad saying this, I took to be him saying he always had faith in him being a good person at the core.
Though, if it’s a defeated “was”, then that’s really heart-wrenching, too.
I was interpreting it as “I knew he was good, and now I’m certain
I took it as the statement of a man who didn’t know it, but wanted it to be true.
Yeah. He had to say it twice because he didn’t believe it the first time.
Hey that’s not true, he,… well, he always knew that,…
Ahhh, you’re right, he’s trying to convince himself.
Huh. I interpreted it to mean that he knew there was good in his son and is upset because this isn’t the way he would have liked to be proven right. Kind of an “I told him he was a good boy. He never let it show, but I always knew he was good inside.” I guess there’s a lot of ways that statement can be taken.
There is good in you. I can feel it.
So, Anakin Skywalker is the name of his true self?
“I took it as the statement of a man who didn’t know it, but wanted it to be true”
That’s definitely the impression such a presentation would usually be intended to evoke. That said, I do rather prefer Thanatos’s take on it.
Given the context, I’d say the double past tense of “I knew our boy was good” more likely implies that George was aware of or believed Mike’s goodness a long time ago/in a long-term sense. While you could be correct in your interpretation, it seems a little odd for George to just give up hope and assume the worst straight off the bat like that.
It’s the stutter on the I that really emphasizes the context of doubt. Likewise, exact repetition, without an indication of increased emphasis on the repetition, generally is a reliable indicator that what is being expressed is uncertainty.
He still is, but he also used to be.
(To paraphrase Mitch Hedberg.)
That’s a pretty standard way of phrasing a statement like that. “I knew our boy is good” mixes tenses and sounds very awkward, in addition to not making much grammatical sense(how did you know in the past something that hasn’t happened yet?), and also gives a slightly different implication (he IS good, but may not have been previously).
“I know our boy is good” is just a completely different implication/meaning. (I now know that he is good, but may not have thought so previously)
This just implies “he was already good, and I knew that, despite appearances”. There’s some possibility of doubt in the repetition, but the “was” is just standard grammar.
I’m not crying, you’re crying
It’s raining indoors on my face.
It’s the rain.
It’s just the early effects of that giant Saharan dust cloud that’s being blown out way from across the Atlantic.
Not looking forward to that.
Chart a helicopter? Not charter?
And it was fixed by the time my own comment posted.
They had a bit of time during the ride so they made a map of the interor of the chopper.
“They had a bit of time during the ride so they made a map of the interor of the chopper.”
So.. planning out the most expedient way of grabbing the parachutes and the best angle by which to jump off the helicopter without risking being hit by the blades? I dunno, that sounds like a pretty darn useful usage of their time to me. 😛
WHAT parachutes? The only time I’ve ever seen parachutes in an airplane is when they were being worn on the backs of people who had gotten into the plane solely for the express purpose of jumping out of it.
Helicopters don’t stock parachutes because they’re primarily low-flying, which means they’re not likely to ever have any reasonable opportunity for parachuting; Additionally, the blades are in fact puportedly a reason as to why helicopters don’t stock parachutes- an element I was attempting to tease off of, above. ;P
Ditto for commercial planes- if that plane is going down, you’re not going to try shoving dozens of untrained passengers out of an open door, you’re going to tell them to strap in and hope for the best. Rather, as far as I’m aware, personal jets are the only ones that come equipped with parachutes [stereotypically, if not in actuality] and Google states that private jets now typically have their own parachutes *for the jets* in place of personal parachutes. So yeah, not much hope finding a parachute in a plane (or helicopter).
Well, who knows. Maybe they spent the entire tip holding on to the feet of the helicopter, and base-jumped down to the hospital. I mean, they’re rich, and their son is in a coma. Why wouldn’t they? 😛
Why wouldn’t anyone?
Some light planes have parachutes designed to safely land the entire vehicle.
The chartest
But to be clear you were never100% sure right?
It’s Mike…I’m not sure he was 100% sure.
Mike was sure that he wasn’t.
“None is righteous; no, not one.”
I wonder what he knows about his parents that makes him confident in that bitter judgement.
They didn’t strangle him at birth.
Odds are, they’re good parents (…you know, if only because odds are we’d run into at least *one* set of good parents by now! We’re due!), and that means… well, understanding your kid as they actually are, not as you think they are.
Mike’s got issues, it’s clear to everyone. I can see them just hoping that he was just acting out in ways, teenagers, you know how they are, when push comes to shove, he’s a good person, he’ll be good…
…right?
Right?
Well said.
Certain things have changed since this comic was put into the queue.
If you’re referring to them not wearing masks in a hospital… I hear from my wife’s friend in Texas that people don’t wear masks in hospitals there.
Also cruise ships.
This is the one I was thinking of.
That’s only because our timeline has diverged from reality and has taken a sharp left towards dark comedy.
I still blame the weasel that shut down the LHC a few years ago.
Unless… Maybe it was trying to warn us?
That weasel planeshifted us into the Parks and Rec universe.
I don’t think major IRL natural disasters get accounted-for in comic book time as they occur. Though something as drawn out as the pandemic makes comic book time… interesting.
I’m honestly hoping Willis never even bothers with the pandemic.. I don’t see it adding anything to the story he was already writing.
The comic doesn’t take place in the real world, so meh.
MAYBE in a couple of real-time years the cast will start mentioning it as something that’s done and past, the way they occasionally reference other real-world things. But otherwise, yeah, it probably shouldn’t
getting shadowchild vibes http://diggercomic.com/blog/2009/08/20/digger-609/
…and then Mike stripped off the bandages and jumped out of bed. “Surpise! Ha! You should’ve seen the look on your faces!”
(moments later, he falls over in pain)
“Worth it.”
Beautiful.
Sounds about right.
And then his father says:
“I did your mom.”
(Mom holds up a nickel. Then she shifts slightly, and a cascade of nickels fall out of the legs of her pants, scattering across the floor.)
(Mike’s eyes immediately roll back and he falls back into a coma.)
I can believe he’d wake up from a coma just to do that.
No, … ‘e’s joost restin’…. Norwegian Mike prefers kippin’ on his back.
Beeutiful bandages, ‘eh?
(I’m skipping to the end because the next bit’s too painful in context).
“I guess I’d better replace him then. Sorry squire, I looked all around and we’re fresh out of Mikes. How about an Alphonse?”
damn.
Well, he saved them too if they got the hell out of a cruise.
You can take the cruise from hell, but you can’t get the hell out from the cruise.
You can if you’ve got a hell-of-a-copter.
… Awww.
I always knew.
Don’t fucking die, Mike!
So are Mike’s parents the only pair of good ones?
Yes.
Dorothy and Dina’s parents seemed to not be bad, as far as I remember.
Yeah, their parents are fine.
Amber’s mom’s alright, Richard (Joe’s dad) has a spotty past but seems to be trying to be a stand-up guy, even if Joe doubts it’ll last. Carla’s parents may be cool, I don’t recall meeting them, but she seems to like them. Sarah’s could be good or bad, I don’t recall her really getting into it.
Joyce’s dad is seemingly on a good path, but time will tell.
And they’re very obviously the two most well adjusted of the kids. Even if Dina is a bit stunted in the social relationship department.
There’s probably a reasonable explanation for that. If you look back at the comics with her parents in them, all three have similar mannerisms.
Not saying any of them have it, but ASD is hereditary…
I’m pretty sure Dina is very deliberately written with an ASD.
As Autism is no longer viewed as a disorder in and of itself, AD and ASD are no longer considered appropriate terms for general usage [versus simply Autism or Autistic Spectrum, respectively].
This is emphasized by the fact that AD still has usage in applying to the very specific [and in a sense, more traditional] application of Autistic Spectrum + Cognitive Disability/Developmental Disorders, and ASD similarly also sees some lingering utility in specifically referring to low-functioning or anti-social subsets of AS.
In other words, once you add the “Disorder” to the terms, you’re subsetting “Autistic Spectrum” into only the forms which are dominantely detrimental. It’s both unnecessary, and inaccurate, and can also be deemed as being [deliberately] inappropriate and insulting to the Autistic individual being referenced.
To simpify that, Dina hasn’t exhibited any signs of having any kind of meaningful impairment, and thus applying “disorder” to her should be avoided.
Besides, Autism isn’t even the most general or appropriate term to use in such a circumstance. Until clear sign is given that a specific label would be appropriate, it’d be best to refer to Dina by the broader label of Neuroatypical (Neurodivergent also works, but sometimes that’s specifically used to refer to non-Autistic variations of atypical neurology).
I freely admit my knowledge of how Autism-spectrum disorders are categorized is about 15 years outdated. If I’m getting stuff wrong, I promise it’s not out of malice.
In that frame of reference, if I had to guess I’d suspect Dina has (what was for decades called) Asperger Syndrome. She exhibits classic symptoms (encyclopedic knowledge of a narrow field, social obliviousness, and blindness to nonverbal communication, but she has neurotypical cognition and we haven’t seen her stimming). I’m honestly not 100% sure how that’s categorized now.
I think Dina’s written as on the spectrum intentionally by now (she wasn’t originally, but the change from ‘I wasn’t consciously writing her this way’ to ‘she’s not diagnosed’ as official Word of God while simultaneously being written with more frequent and noticeable autistic habits is noticeable). Speaking of, NeedfulDoer, that’s usually the phrasing used casuallt these days since Asperger’s is removed from the DSM and also most of us don’t want to be associated with a Nazi scientist. (You’ll also hear ‘high-functioning’ from some circles, but a lot of autistic people aren’t on board with the functioning labels for a variety of reasons.)
(I did not hear neurodivergent is starting to be used as an umbrella term excluding autism and ‘neuroatypical’ being the overall blanket term, so: since when? Who? Frankly, what the fuck? The term is attributed to Judy Singer, who described herself as ‘likely on the autism spectrum’, it’s been associated with us from the start. A lot of our major self-advocacy organizations use the term and consider themselves part of the neurodiversity movement. I thought we used it over ‘neuroatypical’ because neurotypical/atypical positions the latter as Other even beyond the ‘we’re defined by being outside what’s the acceptable norm of society’ bit that’s inherent. No, seriously, what?)
Yeah, like I said it’s been over 20 years since I was diagnosed and almost 15 since I’ve kept up, so my vocabulary’s outdated. I’ve clearly got some catching-up to do.
Thank you.
Dina’s parents are good, I believe.
That reminds me, Dina still needs to take Becky on a nice date.
The only thing they did that was at all bad was fall into Blaine’s Trap Of Politeness and let him in the dorm room. Once they realized he did not have Amber’s best interests at heart, they apologized, and I think they helped at least a bit in the hall chase afterwards. When Dina told them she had a girlfriend they sent her date money. (And NICE date money, at that.) Saruyamas are excellent.
Dorothy’s parents are nice and supportive, yeah, and Sierra’s parents are AWESOME. Sierra herself is extremely comfortable and happy with herself, suggesting they were supportive of her growing up, and her dad immediately stepped in and tried to deescalate and/or stall Blaine when Amber left the room, shouted the ‘abusive cheater!’ backstory to the hall and ran. (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/blood/ Seriously Reno is the MVP of that hallway sequence. ‘Let’s all slow down’ he says while letting Amber get space and Ruth get her RA authority on.)
From what we know of Carla’s parents they are EXTREMELY supportive of their daughter (they 3D printed her an Ultra Car toy so that one would exist! Aww,) but also they own an Apple-equivalent tech company so… I would not be shocked if they are PERSONALLY very pleasant but their business practices are, y’know. Tech company billionaire. (Still puts them ahead of Billingsworth Sr., who uses money as a substitute for attention and affection, and Dargon Chesterfield, ‘cruel captain of industry’ who Jason CLEARLY wants to stay the fuck away from.)
Stacy and Richard are both trying, but their success records are… eh. (Stacy seems to have missed, for instance, that the anxiety disorder Amber mostly had under control post-Blaine – or at least dwarfed by the other issues this semester has dropped on her like many many bricks – was being actively triggered in the aftermath of the Gashface stabbing.) Still, good intentions, decent efforts, reasonably mixed success is still better than some. Hank is currently in about this area but I can see him going up or down in my esteem depending on how he handles things this storyline.
Sarah’s parents are complete unknowns, if she’s ever mentioned them AT ALL it is only briefly and of no real interest. Similarly we know about Jacob’s cool brother, but not his parents. But from what we can tell, two cool sons is pretty good track record, so. We haven’t seen Marcie’s parents onscreen either – the vibe I get from them is decent but frequently absent due to needing to stay financially afloat, and probably more than a little overwhelmed in the aftermath of Marcie’s accident? That’s pretty firmly in ‘vague sense and mostly headcanon’, though. And of course, Bonnie Macintyre and the Lessick parents seem to have been perfectly good people who their children remember fondly, but unfortunately they are dead.
Every other character who may have good parents is a bit part whose parents we haven’t seen or heard about in any detail. Sierra’s get that shoutout specifically because we saw them and in two strips Reno became one of my favorite bit players. We can assume that, say, Agatha’s parents are fine, but we don’t have a clue.
Oh, and cross-universe we know that Walkyverse!Robin and Roz’s mother was in over her head after their crappy dad left, and that said crappy dad staying as long as he did led to a lot of family turmoil as well, but when she and Robin mended fences she was a perfectly fine woman. No clue if that crosses universes at all, especially since ROBIN is so fundamentally changed. Willis has mentioned they believe Mary’s parents are perfectly normal people and Mary just went Super Intense, as well, but that is not actually strip canon until it’s strip canon!
If we’re talking cross-universe stuff, Walkyverse!Ruth’s dad (Dick Lesse) cheated on Ruth’s mom – with Billie’s mom, even. Mr. Hughes stated that Ruth’s father was “unfaithful” in this ‘verse; while anything he says is to be taken with a very large helping of sodium chloride, it’s still a possible indication that that particular trait may have carried over to Dumbingverse!Dick Lessick.
I always forget that! Yeah, we don’t have an unbiased source there on either side, so we’ll have to wait and see if it carried over. (Ruth’s depression here is clearly more about being orphaned than the disillusionment the infidelity caused, and we KNOW the other part of her tragic backstory doesn’t carry over – she was dating Ryan, who dumped her after sleeping with her and was not to our knowledge an actual rapist in that universe. The boy Ruth was dating in Canada is one she remembers fondly, and Clint didn’t mention any others.)
As far as I can recall, all we know about Sarah’s parents is that her dad doesn’t run a law firm (unlike Dana’s, https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/networking/, and, it’s very strongly implied, Raidah’s — https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/relax/).
Her Nana, on the other hand, seems pretty cool. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/veevee/
I figured Sarah’s family had been mentioned at least a little, but forgot the bit about her Nana! That does sound like a cool Nana. So yeah, the one real thing we know about Sarah’s family is ‘at least one member with authority is good.’
And in the strip with Reno, there is Blaine swearing he will get out of paying for Amber’s college, even if he goes to jail. (And Sierra is adopted? I did not remember that.)
You missed one. The dean. We’ve only seen him a couple times. Once stepping on Rozz’s sex video career by stating that any such activity was against dorm use rules, so she could take her sororicidal tenancies somewhere else and not get the school involved in family politics. Once at the parents day football game, where he is introduced as ALMOST Walky’s father. His son is a freshmen and refused to complain about having to live in the dorms, (because all freshmen have to live in the dorms; school rules), when Walky was showing someone around.
Dean McHenry links to the sightings mentioned above.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/guest/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/junior/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/tony/
Also, it seems I misremembered the subtext of several of those. Notably it was only Walky’s position that he was almost-dad. Also, the dean says NOTHING about who is right and wrong in the DeSanto feud; only that the dorms are not a place for making pornography.
…the proper place for that is in the basement of the media studies building…
It’s too bad links that lead back to this URL aren’t whitelisted. It makes sense that a link to another website needs careful review, but why do callbacks to the archives call for moderation?
Have you considered whitelisting https://www.dumbingofage.com , and maybe while you’re at it, https://www.itswalky.com , https://www.bringbackroomies.com , and https://www.shortpacked.com ? Possibly also your personal tumblr and deviantart pages?
This comment never needs to see the light of day. It’s a message for the moderator.
Oh, yeah, we’ve seen Dean McHenry but Tony’s such a bit role I count him more as ‘potential future plot hook’ than ‘parent of a castmember.’
After all the shit he went through in the Walkyverse, Tony deserves a break.
Carla’s parents? I know we haven’t seen much of them (mostly bonus strips) but what little we’ve seen made them seem pretty nice and supportive.
Ah yeah and also Dina’s parents and Dorothy’s parents as others mentioned.
There are definitely a few others where half the parent team is good but the other is not (Amber’s mom), or a parent is sorta learning to be better (Joyce’s dad). And lots we haven’t met, like Sarah’s parents.
I picture Sarah’s parents being super sunny and social and cheerful, the polar opposites of her, as Mike’s are vs. him.
We see the bad ones significantly more but Sierra, Dina, Dorothy, Carla and Mike have good parents. Some like Joyce and Amber have one decent parent.
Hank (Joyce’s dad) seems to be good, or at least OK; but he is cancelled out by Carol (her mother). So the net effect is ‘chaotic neutral’.
No, there’s several others.
Dina, Dorothy, Carla, and Sierra all have good parents.
I guess this is why most Walkyverse parents are evil.
It hurts too much to be one of the good ones.
Let’s give the Warner’s a few strips before we make any judgements. For all we know they could be anti-maskers. And for the record I don’t think most of the parents are evil. Blaine and Ross not included most are just flawed people.
Actually I’d include Ross in the not evil just flawed list. As screwed up as his actions were they came from a place of love
They objectively did not.
I believe that Ross thought, honestly and truly, to the very bottom of his being, that he was doing the right thing almost up until the end (when he turned on Blaine). That it was all for a good cause.
History has a long history of horrific, vile things being committed in the name of a “good cause”.
Ignoring the person for the soul/greater good/the cause isn’t good. It is the cause of most evil.
That’s kinda my point, a whole fucking mess of evil’s been done in the name of a “good cause”.
He had “good” intentions. We all know which road is paved with those, right?
Rome?
I don’t believe for a second Ross thought he was doing the right thing. I think he blanked out on what was good for Becky and used a lot of Bible quotes to excuse his lust for total power over her. It was all about what he wanted.
I don’t think we’re going to agree on what love is.
“If that’s love, it comes at much too high a cost…”
What is love.
Baby don’t hurt me.
Don’t hurt me
No more.
He slapped her in the car when AG showed up. And Becky had no real reaction to this. Though I admit, it’s not like there was much time for it. And then he said he was going to kill any of Becky’s friends who tried to stop him.
I don’t think Becky’s ever mentioned that he hit her since, either. And we know she buries trauma under goofiness and admits it never. I don’t believe it was an isolated incident, is what I’m saying.
So no, FUCK Ross Macintyre, miserable toe that he was.
Also, y’know, he KIDNAPPED HER AT GUNPOINT to take her away and have her gayness ‘cured’ and immediately tried to do it again once released. He had no respect for Becky as she actually exists (he called her a ‘thing’ at one point in that drive!) and all love was conditional on her fitting into a tiny box that would have stifled and killed her, and which I frankly think DID kill her mother. But like, I feel that even the people who can rationalize that can acknowledge that he LITERALLY PHYSICALLY ABUSED HER on at least one occasion, and that action is objectively bad.
Yeah, he’s not good, but he clearly thought he was, in a way Blaine wouldn’t pretend to. The bit that always gets me is when he takes the gun from the car and goes “Lord, give me strength” — he’s afraid he won’t be strong enough to use the gun to do what he has to. Which is beyond fucked up, but a different kind of fucked up from “Hey, here’s a hammer, I can use it to beat in the brains of this kid who might be a nuisance.”
I think what it comes down to is that there’s this painful thought that if someone had got to Ross at the right time, in the right way — and by the right time, I mean decades ago — he might not have turned out too badly. He clearly has a sense of morality, it just happens to be a fucking evil morality. It doesn’t feel impossible that that could have been channeled in a different, better direction. As opposed to Blaine, who’s just an asshole.
The weird thing is, I actually think this is more true of Ross than of, say, Linda. To date, I’ve never got the sense she’d be anything other than horrible, no matter where she existed.
I think we’re going a little off the rails if we’re arguing Ross is potentially better than Linda. Linda is awful but the bar is set a kidnapping, abuse, and ATTEMPTED MURDER!!!.
Hyperbole aside. I like to think there are tiers. And while parents like Blaine and Ross (maybe Ruth’s gramps whose name I can’t remember but I’m sure he was a tool) are at the bottom. Just above them are parents like Linda, Carol, and maybe Ethan’s mom who had a brief but not very endearing appearance freshman family weekend. People who I think do love their children but have very flawed beliefs they aren’t willing to compromise on for their kids. Which I think is very common for a lot of parents but the good ones will always put their children above that. In my opinion anyway.
I don’t think they meant that Ross is actually worse than Linda. Even as Linda’s #1 Rabid Hater, I think that’s too much. I think what they meant is that they feel that Ross could be better in some hypothetical alternate universe, but they don’t feel that way about Linda. She can be lower grade awful but still consistent across all universes.
I don’t think they are arguing that Ross isn’t WORSE than Linda but that Linda is far less… malleable. That if there was an alternate universe where someone told both Ross and Linda they were wrong at a much earlier age… that Ross had more capacity to change for the better, while Linda would have likely stubbornly remained the same. It’s a hypothetical as Ross for all his flaws, was stubborn just as much about the good lessons as he was about the bad ones so if he had been taught kinder lessons, it is easy to imagine him being a kinder person. While it isn’t as easy to imagine that for someone like Linda, though that could be true for her too, it’s not easy to imagine it. And that a painful aspect of Ross’s character is that we know in another lifetime he could have been like Becky or Joyce. That he had the makings to be a good person if he could have seen past the toxic teachings but instead he doubled down on them at every opportunity.
Hrmmm. I don’t know I kinda feel like this theory could apply to anybody though. I’m more of a nurture guy who believes a lot of our personality is defined by our memories and experiences so yes I guess Ross could have turned out differently. But I think the main difference between a Ross and a Linda is that Ross has been more fleshed out, examined, ect which you’d have to because he was a main villain who is now dead. You aren’t gonna get anymore opportunities after this to develop him beyond maybe a few flashbacks. Linda hasn’t really had the screen time to be deconstructed the same way. She just has the really bad few moments of her we’ve seen. We at least understand why Ross was a horrible man and so it’s easier to say he could change. We still don’t know why Linda’s a low key racist parent with blatant favoritism. We may never find out….although…with Blaine and Ross out of the picture DoA does need a new big bad. Sal’s a pretty popular character and I’d love to know more about her time between robbing that convenience store and now.
I think it’s a mix of nature and nurture. People can be predisposed to crappy traits and then nurture either discourages, redirects or nurtures those traits. I don’t know if Linda could be better in another world. I do think that the fact we know Ross was likely raised in a community similar to Joyce’s makes us more prone to think of what could have been with him.
If all you need to be a good parent is to have your actions theoretically be from a place of love then the only evil ones are Blaine and Gramps. And you could make arguments for both of them.
Patriarchal abuse and control is not love.
Reminder that Ross would rather see Becky dead than let her be herself. That is not love.
So, which dad is better, the one who knows he’s evil, and doubles down, or the one who deludes himself into thinking he’s good, and doing the right thing? At least the first is honest with himself, and the world.
Being honest about your evil isn’t better than being mistaken or deluded about being right and good. Being evil and remorseless about it is just… inherently worse to me. Being wrong isn’t worse than actively chosing to be evil and to do the wrong thing.
Which doesn’t mean either of them is good or excuse any of their actions but I think actively choosing to be evil is still worse even if both can have horrifyingly bad ramifications.
I think ROSS thinks that his actions are good. But at the core, his actions are guided by fear and loathing of HBTQ+ folks and has led to people getting hurt and him aiding an evil person, even a murderer.
The fact that Ross thinks that his actions and thoughts shows that he is a devout religious man that values family just makes him extremly misguided, not good.
If its a binary Good/Evil thing, Ross definitly falls on the side of evil.
Judging by how Mike’s turned out…I wouldn’t say they’re *good* parents. They may very well be good *people*, but I kinda suspect they’re *incompetent*, therefore bad, parents.
So, you believe that the Warners, not Mike himself nor any of the other people in his life, bear full and exclusive responsibility?
We don’t know enough of Mike’s backstory to really judge. There’s something really wrong with him and it was already there in the earliest flashbacks we’ve seen. It’s possible it’s just innate. It’s possible there was someone else in his early childhood who screwed him up. It’s also possible his parents bear some of the blame.
When we’re talking about the behavior of a child, it’s generally not right to assign full and exclusive responsibility to the child.
I think Mike is a well-socialized sociopath. He /Wanted/ to be good, so he modeled his behavior on “good”. Up to and including using a manipulable bisexual jock to get a self-deluded sexist teacher fired. Then he saw through Blaine, was threatened by Blaine in turn, and doubled down on being a jerk as a cover for keeping those he cares for alive and well.
What he’s like after he wakes up from his Phineas Gage event is anyone’s guess. I’m hoping for not drooling. I’m guessing probably drunkenly nice.
I said nothing about them bearing full responsibility, nor did I suggest that Mike is somehow not responsible for his actions. That’s ludicrous.
Them likely being the most important figures in his life up to this point in his development, and therefore having a sizeable role in his behavior? Probable.
They may very well have done everything in their power to make Mike the best kid he was capable of, and this might even be it. The details at present on his home life have been fairly faint, so we can all only guess. You’ve already read my guess.
If history shows us anything, it’s very, very easy to be a poor parent. Even when you’re trying to be a good one.
I’m willing to bet that they had some other type of confirmation of his goodness.
Stop using past tense, Mr. Warner!
And Mike sits up and quotes Monty Python “I’m not dead yet!”
“I feel happy!”
“I aten’t dead.”
Yes, Granny.
“I feel like going for a walk!”
I was kind of imagining this was going to happen this way 🙁 aww my feeling.
Mike’s parents are a mood. You can theorize, but they seem happy and more loving then most parents, but they raised a Mike and the confirmation they have for their upbringing having rendered some goodness into him is the result of their “baby” having a grievous head injury.
Word of God is that Mary’s parents are perfectly nice people who are baffled at what their daughter turned into. For all the horrible parents in DoA, it’s nice to be reminded that some people are just assholes no matter their upbringing.
I’m actually faintly curious to meet Mary’s parents, now.
I b’lieve that their justification of his goodness is Not the injury, but that it occurred during the act of trying to save someone. Quote: “Because he came to my rescue.” That is why I b’lieve Mr. Warner was moved to say that.
Mike can’t die! Heaven doesn’t have enough nickels!
And hell doesn’t have enough woodpeckers.
I wouldn’t make too much of the “was.” Mike’s Dad is talking about Mike’s past and—no doubt—the many reports he heard to The contrary. I feel certain that—were Mike conscious and sitting up in the next room—his Dad would respond with the same words upon hearing what Amber just said. “I knew he was good, even when everyone was saying he’s a brat.”
Yeah, that’s my read as well.
Mike is very good … at what he does, but is still young and perfecting his art.
And he’ll be this young forevermore.
(because we’re never moving past freshman year)
You’re not WRONG… But i am curious to see what will happen when the time comes… Is it gonna end? Or is Willis gonna take the Glee route and stretch this into oblivion?
It’s taken 10 years to get to mid-October. Freshman year is likely to last another 30-40.
[Rod Stewart intensifies]
“We sure like to talk about our boy in the past tense, don’t we?”
I think the past tense usage is because there might have been doubts about if he was good or not from others. Those doubts are gone now, and so, they are spoken in past tense.
Maybe?
Never say “was”, Mr. Warner. Mike will not die from this.
Eh, I think I’d categorize him generally as true neutral, but maybe that’s too harsh…
Mike’s parents rich as Croesus…not something I was expecting
Where do you think he gets all those nickels?
What, did you think he was paying all those mothers? He was charging them. He’s a cheap date.
Maybe not … the cruise could have been something they had saved up for, but like most parents — when their kid is in trouble, then hang the expense; we’re gonna get there ASAP and sort the piddly shit out later.
Not all cruises are expensive. Some are even “free”. Granted, everything is a la carte, there may be no air conditioning in the cabins, and you have to sit through a high-pressure time-share sales presentation…
That said, I’m guessing an “empty nest for the first time in 18 years” cruise, possibly even the long-delayed honeymoon. Mike strikes me as the sort to have won a full merit scholarship on his GPA or SAT/ACT scores, which may mean they had a little money laying around they no longer needed to use to put their kid through college.
“Cruise ship” could be upper middle class or maybe frugal, saving up for it middle class, yes – “chartering a helicopter” sounds like some full-on rich people stuff to me.
It does – though I’m not sure how the alt-text “chartered a helicopter” fits with the “flew home from the first port”. They certainly didn’t charter a helicopter to Indiana from anywhere you’d take a cruise. Possibly from the first port to a nearby city/island with a major airport?
RIGHT IN THE FEELS MAN C’MON
Seeing the Warners without a smile is so much heartbreaking. :__(
Is* past tense makes shit weird for the living
Kind of curious… Could the uni or Mike’s parents or someone sue Joyce’s family’s Church for getting a dangerous criminal out on bond, when the first thing he did was automatically come back to harm the very people he assaulted/tried to kidnap the first time?
I mean, it’s an issue of legal costs, but the reason why they had to get Blaine’s money in the first place was because they didn’t have much cash, so suing them into the stone age might actually be achievable if someone like Joe’s dad/Amber’s kinda step-dad got involved?
I kinda think it’d be more likely that Amber’s dad would be sued over this, once everything comes out.
First, they paid his bail. That doesn’t mean he released into their custody. Second, they’re probably not getting that bail back, so any lawsuit is probably blood from a stone. Third, I don’t think a church as a legal entity can post bail. They probably met as individuals and pooled their money for one fo them to go and bail him out.
Insofar as they knowingly supported a criminal conspiracy – approving of and, as a group, materially assisting Ross’s recidivism, above and beyond just posting his bail – they might all be on the hook for a LOT of felonies.
They didn’t do anything I know of beyond posting his bail.
If they just handed Blaine a big loaf of cash, with no paper trail, it’s going to take some digging to tie it back to them.
I wonder if Carol unilaterally drew their joint accounts down lower than Hank would approve of. She can’t re-mortgage or sell the house if both their names are on it, but this could be the “sell the house and give all the money to the church” parallel…
The situation is complicated, but I’m pretty sure the worst thing they’re facing is not getting the money back. Maybe not even that – the purpose of bail is to make sure Ross shows up in court, and being dead is a valid reason to not be there.
Usually, though, there’s a “don’t commit any other crimes while on bond” stipulation, and he blew through that like a 100-meter runner blows through the finish tape.
It’s doubtful. What they did was fucked up, but not illegal. Sue the state for allowing it. Still wouldn’t win, but it’s probably a better case.
Mike really had everyone fooled with the asshole act, huh?
“act”? I dunno about that, assholes can still do good things, doesn’t invalidate all the other assholery they’ve accomplished! My favorite asshole example in movies is Doc Holiday in Tombstone. He was an absolute ass, driven almost completely by his decadent and wanton desires, borderline chaotic evil in D&D terms, but even he had friends. Just not many. https://youtu.be/LRVhtVCfzo8?t=25
You shut your lying mouth. Doc Holiday was a goddamn saint and I won’t hear otherwise on the matter!
Just broke down, like, full-on sobbing, over a comic strip.
I may not be okay.
I feel like I’m watching an episode of “The Guiding Light” (look it up on the web, youngsters…)
Mr. Willis, I noticed that there was a small piece of schmutz on my monitor and subsequently tried to scrape it off with my fingernail, only to discover that it was actually George’s lip quivering a bit in sadness. Fooled me completely! 🙂
“I knew our boy was good.”
Yes…. just keep repeating that, maybe if you say it enough you will actually start to believe it.
So the Warners weren’t oblivious to Mike’s a-holery after all. Darn, right in the heart.
He’s trying to convince himself. Pretty sad.
Way to ruin their vacation, Amber
Mike looks like his dad.
“I knew our boy was good.”
The ‘was’ is clearly important, although most people are thinking they already assume their son is dead. I don’t think that’s what it means – I think they’ve been worried about their son for a while, ever since he stopped smiling and started acting the jerk. They hid their concerns under a perfect-supporting-parent mask, but they feared that their son had turned to the Dark Side. (They could be Star Wars fans, they’re old enough.) To hear about their son’s heroic act lifts a huge burden from their hearts.
Lifted a huge burden and replaced it with another one of concern that he is now in the hospital in a coma. I’m not sure which burden is heavier.
“I knew our boy was good.”
Oh my heart.
Guys, the “was” doesn’t have a particular meaning, it’s just correct grammar. Mike’s dad says “i knew” because he is referring to what he knew before Amber told them what happened, therefore using past tense. The sentence fragment “[mike] was good” is being modified by the “i knew,” so it also has to be in past tense. “I knew he is good” would be grammatically incorrect.
This is simultaneously better and worse than I feared. There’s definitely something behind what he’s saying here, but it’s very clear that Mike’s parents love him dearly.
…C’mon Mike. Wake up. Say something snarky and cruel. Please?
Going back and watching the way Ruth deals with him and the way he looks back at her before he runs (shock/awe) is actually really cathartic after this most recent story line.
given how he repeated that line it gives me the impression that they were low-key worried he’d do something scandalous
Don’t worry Mr. Warner – when he wakes up he’ll continue to prove you right.
I’m being optimistic.
Optimistic that he’ll live, or that he’ll be changed for the better?
Both? His last conscious actions WERE prompted by an epiphany that he didn’t like who he’d become.
While I doubt we’ll lose that classic Mike snark I do hope he actively acts a bit more..
Kind?
“I knew our boy was good. It was all because of the undercover anti-mob operation, you know? He had to pretend to be an asshole”
Yeah…
Wow, Mike’s folks look so young–I suppose they would be, being as we don’t meet them in Shortpacked until more than a decade later in the timeline.
sobs