What if Mike is dead, and instead of bringing it up, Willis just keeps cutting back to different characters who don’t even acknowledge that Mike isn’t there, much less what happened to him.
Maybe in like a year we’ll cut to Blaine and Toe Dad in prison together, but no mention of what got them in there, and then back to the main cast.
Mostly because she doesn’t have the vocabulary to properly express the, so they all come out as 50 tone, volume and pronunciation variants of “DAMMIT!”
I worked with someone who would pull someone’s lunch from the break room fridge, ask “is this anybody’s”, and if the owner wasn’t there he would eat it.
Senator material?
“No, it just appeared overnight. The magical fucking food fairy must have left it there in case someone got hungry.”
That shit just makes me so mad! Who does something like that? Not even surreptitiously taking other people’s food, but broadcasting to the entire room?!
I recall working with someone who had worked with someone who had tried Tabasco and dog food, the day before my acquaintance showed up for their first day. Unfortunately the guy liked it.
As mentioned, my acquaintance showed up the next day. Completely unaware there was a refrigerator thief around, they put their lunch in the refrigerator. A few hours later, he was “cured”, by which I mean rushed to the hospital to make sure his mouth and GI tract would survive the ghost peppers my acquaintance had as part of their normal lunch.
Just saying, so you know.
(Note: the fact that someone actually likes to chow down on ghost peppers indicates they’re not a sure fire fix, either. But different people like and dislike different things, and you can usually find something the person will want to forever avoid.)
I think it’s determination. I don’t think she’s gonna make out with him. I think she’s going to call his nihilism (and hers) bullshit and start trying to care again.
They’ve had a very interesting build. Like, when the comic began, I wouldn’t have called it, but it’s been one of Joyce’s most interesting inter-personal relationships. They’re very different, and also have more in common than she does with her other friends on some points, like their parents being split up.
Always a shame to learn Joe STILL hasn’t learned that a core issue of The List was that he WAS a stranger detachedly hurting people by objectifying them, but… sigh, it is Joe.
I don’t recall Amber having a sense of loss.
IIt really doesn’t feel like that describes her emotion.
IIow you would come to that conclusion mystifies me.
Look here, Amber and Amazi-Girl are inseparable.
plus he got some perspective after his list got out (from Joyce, regarding that objectifying girls ‘harmlessly’ still matters bc it means there’s more people than just predators who don’t see you as human, and Rachel (other Rachel? idk) about him endangering them by basically leaking a map of all the girls in their building)
His parents split up because Richard, his dad, slept around. Joe liked sleeping around because it kept him form getting close to anyone, so he wouldn’t hurt them like Richard did his mom. He thinks he’s trash, and doesn’t think he can get out of a bad fate.
Joe also thinks the issue is, specifically, sleeping around in a committed relationship, so if he never forms one of those and tanks most of his interpersonal relationships, he’s fine, right?
He hates his father because he broke his mother’s heart by being a cheating scumbag while in a relationship with her and he has (it’s implied), done this in other relationships as well where he has said he would be faithful then wasn’t and it hurt the women most of all. He got really mad at Richard when he said he was dating Stacy because he is used to his toxic patterns. He is also creepy with the way he mentioned Stacy’s age as well, and Joe definitely gave him a hard look for referring to college girls as ‘sexually mature women as defined by the state’.
As such, Joe, while someone with a high libido, doesn’t let people get close or try to have an actual relationship. He is always upfront about it and hates cheating. Joe thinks that his dad can’t change. That he can’t change. So he never tries very hard to. And it is a struggle for him to accept he isn’t as far removed as he thinks – his list still hurt women, he still has an impact on others, and you will always have responsibility for your actions.
Joe. . . wait did I just say that? . . .Would Joyce go for that?
Also . . . as much as I love this as a ship I can’t help but imagine that it would be rather unhealthy. But perhaps seeing Joyce like this would shock Joe into trying to shape up for her and thus help her see the world in a more idealistic place?
it seems that most of the ships in this comic are unhealthy when they happen. I’m hoping BillieXRuth stay the course though and get married. Billie seems to really want to try though as does Ruth.
[inb4: I got mad about a hotel review and am technically still writing about how it’s way too easy to book a room through the website, then change your mind and cancel, and never once realize oh, it was a non-refundable rate despite wording on the site that said you have 24 hours to cancel without penalty so SUCKS TO BE YOU, THANKS FOR THE FREE MONEY FOR NOTHING, but I figured I’d post my prepared comment anyway bc idgaf anyway]
Whenever possible, I try to call the hotel in person. FAR fewer fuckups that way. Of course, more and more places won’t give out their phone numbers over the internet anymore to prevent that, so I guess I’m just screwed in the future.
What, really? I don’t think it’s that difficult to find most business’s phone number. Larger hotel chains might put their call center’s 1-800 number front and center, but if you go to the page for the one you’re staying at (or look them up on a third party site like Google Maps) you can usually call them direct.
Well, now I know my fictional heart – I like seeing Joe and Joyce meaningfully interact at least as much as (probably more than) finding out whether Mike is alive.
I get a sense these two might actually end up in a reasonably long-term (our time, at least) relationship given how much ground’s been laid here and how much Willis has said he likes writing their interactions over on the Walkyverse reruns (where it was explored in a few alternate universes and Joe definitely had a crush he never acted on, but never a full-focus romantic arc, which leaves it fair game,) but yeah, this mindset is NOT where I’d like either of them to be for a relationship with anyone.
Then again, Ruth/Billie is currently still going strong and their origins were worse, so who knows.
(As ever, I wish all of these kids would go to therapy yesterday.)
If they start dating on this basis, this will be our 3rd (?) currently active relationship predicated on the belief that both partners are too garbage for anyone else to date. I realize in a comic titled “Dumbing of Age” at least an occasional relationship of this type is inevitable, but 3 at once is a bit much. Ooooh! Maybe Joe will convince Joycd she’s worth dating and then help her get with Jacob?
I doubt he’d do that last thing because he thought it was fucked up how Joyce went about trying to get with Jacob before so his sympathy for that particular pain is likely 0.
On a completely unrelated note, do you (or anyone) happen to know who our shared Gravatar is? I finaly managed to get one that looks like me… But I don’t have a slightest clue who she is?
I understand what both Joyce and Joe are saying. Joyce became an edgelord because of realizing she has free will and can do evil; she envied atheists for being free, but she didn’t learn that lack of belief isn’t the same as lack of restrain. Joe on the other hand realized his hedonism was a way of escapism from the reality of his parents being divorced, and also that his hedonism could have harmed women. These two are the extremes of idealism and cynicism, and they have burned out. Joyce needs to accept that bad stuff happens, but that isn’t an excuse to abandon hope and trying to be better, and Joe needs to stop running away and accept that he is human.
The conflicts between ideals and pragmatism are tiresome, my dudes.
Joe thinks he’s too much like his father. That’s why he limits himself by avoiding commitment – because he thinks that if he does make an emotional connection he will inevitably betray it as his father would. What he didn’t realize until the list and Joyce rubbed his face in it, is that he’s hurting women anyway.
There are certainly elements of his father’s influence in Joe, but he’s far more aware of it and tries to minimize the harm, as Richard has never done. His attempts so far have been flawed, but they’ve always been there.
Mike has been ‘Chuck Cunningham’d…
… only instead of going up the stairs never to heard from again, he went up a fire escape, never to be heard from again.
When Danny said ‘goodbye forever Mike’, he meant it.
Mike will never be referenced by any other character ever again – and only Amazi-girl (not Amber) will have any inkling of awareness, though only from the far recesses of awareness, that something is amiss, though unsure of what or why.
Now, being Chuck Cunningham’d, OTOH, is something I never considered, but since Willis doesn’t tend to leave loose ends (he has already written out at least one character – Penny – by getting her fired for kanoodling with students, but she got a couple strips to explain her dismissal; and though we’ve never seen her, even Dana got a backstory to explain the animosity between Raidah and Sarah) I don’t think that’s too likely to happen..
Didn’t AntiJoyce and Joe hook up? So maybe he meant this, and they’ll get together..?
A slightly evil part of me kinda wants him to rub Jacob’s face in it: “What can I say bro? You fucked up. She’s amazing. Still working out exactly who she is as a person and de-brainwashing herself after her Fundie upbringing – but she tries, she’s insightful, has a heart of gold… She makes me feel like being a better person is possible and worth the work.” Ooooh – maybe this is where this is going, leading to Jacob falling into Shortpacked-esque sex addiction..?
He’s never had an explicit rule against retreading old ships, but re-covering old ground, so to speak – the most recent Word of God I remember on the subject being that he was not opposed to the idea if he could find something new to do with the relationship. This is why Ruth and Billie, Mandy/Grace/Sierra, Zaph and Rose, Peter and Mary, Sal and Jason for a time, and even – in a way – Walky and Dorothy, have all gotten explored or hinted at to some extent in Dumbing of Age; all of those relationships existed in the Walkyverse(s), but the way they’re approached in the Dumbingverse is different.
I’m pretty sure that Joyce and Joe are going to end up doing something stupid, very much against both their better judgements. However, given the emotional pressures on them, it would be very surprising if they are able to avoid the pitfall.
I want them to end up together. But not now as idiot impulsive freshmen. Later, past the end date of this comic. When they are Juniors and seniors. When Joe has hopefully slowed down the machismo and Joyce has gotten past the edgyness and accepted certain pre concieved ideas about the world.
Didn’t we see a version of this conversation with Ruth and Billie? Hopefully Joyce and Joe won’t make a sexy suicidal pact.
(I wouldn’t mind the sexy part though… Just saying. Even if I would like to see this particularly ship happening more in the future. They both have some personal growth to do.)
Also: MIIIIIIIIIKE! WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HIM?
(But as much I want to see him alive, I’m more interested in this conversation right now. Does that mean I’m a bad person? No, don’t answer that.)
I’m worried Joyce is going to do more things she regrets (maybe not specifically fucking Joe but maybe), and come to the conclusion that life without God is seriously screwing up her life, and that she was wrong to pull away from religion. “So this is why the church says God is important… see how fucked up I get when He’s not in my life? Mom was right all along!”
It would be an easy conclusion to come to, from her limited frame of reference.
Mind you, is it a bad thing to find fulfillment in religion? I mean, it depends on your belief in the supernatural or not, but the big thing in Joyce’s case is her mother and church are supporting a terrorist (Ross) not religion in general (Becky).
Not just supporting a terrorist, but all the other crap in that particular brand of religion that’s messing up her life. No, there’s nothing wrong with finding fulfillment in religion, at least in my atheist opinion, but Joyce is going to have to make a serious break whether it’s from religion entirely or from the toxic version she was raised in to a better form. She’s too tied to it, in ways Becky never was. Becky can apparently change her internalized faith to match her growth without much struggle. Joyce can’t.
A shame she and Jacob couldn’t have any conversations but my hope is Joyce finds whatever fulfillment she needs in-universe. Presumably as a pornographic cartoonist married to Dorothy.
I think it’s fascinating how Joe has so much hatred and resentment for his father due to the man’s chronic cheating. So much so that he decided to avoid any and all serious relationships. Ironically, it has made him pretty much exactly the kind of douchebag he thinks his father is while also being angry his father wants to settle down into a serious relationship.
It feels very Eleanor Shellstrop to me (The Good Place spoilers ahead). She encounters her mother trying to be a good mom and wife and is hurt because if her mom was always capable of changing into a better person, she felt that since her mom hadn’t done it while raising Eleanor means that Eleanor wasn’t good enough.
I don’t know which would make Joe angrier – his dad once again flaking and cheating (and showing how irresponsible he still is) or actually making the change for the better after all this time (once Joe is out of his active care, cause you know his dad was not the most responsible dad).
I think the latter would frustrate him, and he’d wait for the other shoe to drop, but I still think he’d pick it over Amber’s mom getting hurt, especially if he knows any details about how that previousrelationship went.
Joe thinks lying to get what you want is the key problem with what his father did at least that’s what he’s telling himself.
The problem is Joe never bothered to learn how to seek casual hookups with minimal making women uncomfortable if that’s how he wants to do things. He instead has choosen the path as identifying himself as a douche up front which makes people uncomfortable in a different way and provides cover for the worse douchbags.
Their is proberly a bit of what Nep said of if his father and men in general are capable of being better than why not for him.
A problem is Dick basically claimed that’s he won’t cheat on Stacey because she’s better then Joes mom, instead of claiming that he regrets what he did and will do better this time, or saying what he plans on doing differently because the magical power of Stacey’s awesomeness will not protect him from his desires forever. So either Dick is deluding himself or coming right out and saying it if it is like Eleanor.
Precisely on that last point. It’s not that Joe’s hypocritically mad at his dad for wanting a committed relationship, it’s that he doesn’t believe his dad will stick with it.
And as you suggest, Dick hasn’t given Joe or us any reason to think he will. No reason to think he’s changed or even recognized he has a problem and is trying to change.
It’s interesting to wonder why Joemom and Joedad were so miserable together. It might be different than Joe believes (even if it’s very likely, “We made each other deeply unhappy.”)
Oh right, you’re the one who wants to blame the cheating on Joe’s mom, based on no evidence whatsoever. I’d forgotten.
We don’t know they were miserable. We know he cheated. There is no reason at all to think he cheated because they were miserable, rather than them being miserable because he cheated.
We’re not going to get a “He cheated on her because she wasn’t a good wife” story here. Sorry.
Joyce is seriously not in a good mental state right now. I think Joe is a good influence for her right now – to me the glance in the last panel is seeing Joyce as another person he’s broken by getting too close to.
Joyce has had her first real brush with wanting to do good but still doing bad, her last bit of faith – in the goodness of herself – is breaking to bits, and she’s lost her foundations. I hope her friends get it and can be there for her to help her through.
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Here we go! This conversation has been a long time coming.
Does that mean we’ll cut back to Mike soon?
No.
What if Mike is dead, and instead of bringing it up, Willis just keeps cutting back to different characters who don’t even acknowledge that Mike isn’t there, much less what happened to him.
Maybe in like a year we’ll cut to Blaine and Toe Dad in prison together, but no mention of what got them in there, and then back to the main cast.
I can’t figure out what Joyce’s emotion is in that last panel.
Her mind is an endless torrent of unutterable profanities.
She’s writing 100 Julia Gray stories in her head right now.
They all involve the appearance of her nemesis, broodingly handsome ace fighter pilot Brody “Broseph” Joesenthal.
I want to read this fanfic right now!
After posting this, I realized I’d missed out on the opportunity to name the character ‘Joestar’. Or, maybe, ‘Brostar’?
Mostly because she doesn’t have the vocabulary to properly express the, so they all come out as 50 tone, volume and pronunciation variants of “DAMMIT!”
She’s thinking of a pun but doesn’t want to say it because it’s actually a good pun but she was raised to think all puns are bad
They are. Particularly if they’re good ones.
Nothing, she just saw Robin down an entire box of coco puffs with out any milk.
Didn’t even bother to open the box.
a congresswoman will see a whole box of cereal and ask “is anybody going to eat that?” and then eat it raw without waiting for a response
I worked with someone who would pull someone’s lunch from the break room fridge, ask “is this anybody’s”, and if the owner wasn’t there he would eat it.
Senator material?
“No, it just appeared overnight. The magical fucking food fairy must have left it there in case someone got hungry.”
That shit just makes me so mad! Who does something like that? Not even surreptitiously taking other people’s food, but broadcasting to the entire room?!
That’s nothing that can’t be fixed with a loaded sandwich. I favor a core of Tabasco and roaches in these cases.
I recall working with someone who had worked with someone who had tried Tabasco and dog food, the day before my acquaintance showed up for their first day. Unfortunately the guy liked it.
As mentioned, my acquaintance showed up the next day. Completely unaware there was a refrigerator thief around, they put their lunch in the refrigerator. A few hours later, he was “cured”, by which I mean rushed to the hospital to make sure his mouth and GI tract would survive the ghost peppers my acquaintance had as part of their normal lunch.
Just saying, so you know.
(Note: the fact that someone actually likes to chow down on ghost peppers indicates they’re not a sure fire fix, either. But different people like and dislike different things, and you can usually find something the person will want to forever avoid.)
https://www.askamanager.org/2016/07/a-coworker-stole-my-spicy-food-got-sick-and-is-blaming-me.html
And the amazing follow-up: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/10/update-a-coworker-stole-my-spicy-food-got-sick-and-is-blaming-me.html
Seem relevant here…
Senator? He’ll, let’s put an exploratory committee together for a White House run!
She just unhinged her jaw like a snake and downed it whole, box and all.
“Wait… it’s JOE’s fault! HE’S why this is happening to me!”
I think she wants to get fucked up – and the last panel is like her realizing sje wants to punish herself w/ joe – something like this 🙁
That would be interesting, but I doubt that’s where this is going.
I don’t think she can either.
I think it’s determination. I don’t think she’s gonna make out with him. I think she’s going to call his nihilism (and hers) bullshit and start trying to care again.
(CAN WE GET STATUS ON MIKE PLEASE WILLIS)
I think Joyce’s emotion is… “Crap, I let Joe get close to ME. Now I must be effed up.”
wow its incredible to see the parallels in what are two such different people
They’ve had a very interesting build. Like, when the comic began, I wouldn’t have called it, but it’s been one of Joyce’s most interesting inter-personal relationships. They’re very different, and also have more in common than she does with her other friends on some points, like their parents being split up.
(Not that Carol and Hank are split up yet, but it ain’t looking hopeful)
The Parent Trap is a vitally important tag and will be this year’s favorite character.
Now let’s see how many people vote The Parent Trap and Blowjob Cat for the new bonus strip.
That conceptual pairing is quite distressing.
Why? Blowjob Cat seems to function pretty well as a tourist trap already.
Dumbing of Age Book 10: The Hayley Mills Version Specifically
DoA Book 10: When I Get Close To People, They Tend To Get Fucked Up
DoA Book are we only up to 10: Yeah, See?
Sadly, you two, I don’t think it works that way. Unfortunately, you can still hurt people while you’re detached. Sometimes that’s HOW you hurt people.
Always a shame to learn Joe STILL hasn’t learned that a core issue of The List was that he WAS a stranger detachedly hurting people by objectifying them, but… sigh, it is Joe.
“If I just do the complete opposite of (someone who does) a thing I don’t like, that means I’ll always be right!”
(wrong)
I mean, that’s how Trump tries to deal with Obama’s legacy, so you’re definitely not wrong.
“Wait – I can blame you for that? Hooray, it wasn’t my fault! I wonder if Jacob will also buy this?”
Or
“I’m already fudged – fucked – up” *smooch*
Also, where are everybody else atm?
… in bed.
With your mom. For a nickel.
That reminds me, we still don’t know what happened to Mike.
He dead like norwegian parrot painted on door nail
Mike will never be dead as long as there are moms and nickels.
Specifically, your mom.
It was actually Amazigirl that died that night. It’s why Amber has a sense of loss.
I don’t recall Amber having a sense of loss.
IIt really doesn’t feel like that describes her emotion.
IIow you would come to that conclusion mystifies me.
Look here, Amber and Amazi-Girl are inseparable.
My mother would never sleep with a guy like Mike.
She’s to boring and conservative to do that kind of thing.
Especially if it were for a nickel.
All of a sudden I want both of them to start wearing Mouseketeer beanies.
Do we have any Joe backstory? Seems like he just suddenly went from being a ladies-man to being deep
Short version: Parents divorced because his dad’s a creep
plus he got some perspective after his list got out (from Joyce, regarding that objectifying girls ‘harmlessly’ still matters bc it means there’s more people than just predators who don’t see you as human, and Rachel (other Rachel? idk) about him endangering them by basically leaking a map of all the girls in their building)
His parents split up because Richard, his dad, slept around. Joe liked sleeping around because it kept him form getting close to anyone, so he wouldn’t hurt them like Richard did his mom. He thinks he’s trash, and doesn’t think he can get out of a bad fate.
Joe also thinks the issue is, specifically, sleeping around in a committed relationship, so if he never forms one of those and tanks most of his interpersonal relationships, he’s fine, right?
(He is not fine.)
Specifically, he thinks that if he does get in a relationship he will be like his father and cheat.
He hates his father because he broke his mother’s heart by being a cheating scumbag while in a relationship with her and he has (it’s implied), done this in other relationships as well where he has said he would be faithful then wasn’t and it hurt the women most of all. He got really mad at Richard when he said he was dating Stacy because he is used to his toxic patterns. He is also creepy with the way he mentioned Stacy’s age as well, and Joe definitely gave him a hard look for referring to college girls as ‘sexually mature women as defined by the state’.
As such, Joe, while someone with a high libido, doesn’t let people get close or try to have an actual relationship. He is always upfront about it and hates cheating. Joe thinks that his dad can’t change. That he can’t change. So he never tries very hard to. And it is a struggle for him to accept he isn’t as far removed as he thinks – his list still hurt women, he still has an impact on others, and you will always have responsibility for your actions.
You summed it up really well.
…I still feel rather off put that Joyce describes the new Parent Trap as “The one with the slut in it”
Described, past tense. I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t say that now!
Pretty sure that description was aping her mother’s opinion.
Joyce and Joe? Looks like it’s about that time.
https://imgur.com/a/uccuKH7
^^
Very cute. I like.
I still ship them!
Those are nice, and very much in-character for both.
Joe. . . wait did I just say that? . . .Would Joyce go for that?
Also . . . as much as I love this as a ship I can’t help but imagine that it would be rather unhealthy. But perhaps seeing Joyce like this would shock Joe into trying to shape up for her and thus help her see the world in a more idealistic place?
it seems that most of the ships in this comic are unhealthy when they happen. I’m hoping BillieXRuth stay the course though and get married. Billie seems to really want to try though as does Ruth.
“in which sense”
…
“asking for a friend”
[inb4: I got mad about a hotel review and am technically still writing about how it’s way too easy to book a room through the website, then change your mind and cancel, and never once realize oh, it was a non-refundable rate despite wording on the site that said you have 24 hours to cancel without penalty so SUCKS TO BE YOU, THANKS FOR THE FREE MONEY FOR NOTHING, but I figured I’d post my prepared comment anyway bc idgaf anyway]
Ugh. I hate those sites. Give me the willies.
Whenever possible, I try to call the hotel in person. FAR fewer fuckups that way. Of course, more and more places won’t give out their phone numbers over the internet anymore to prevent that, so I guess I’m just screwed in the future.
What, really? I don’t think it’s that difficult to find most business’s phone number. Larger hotel chains might put their call center’s 1-800 number front and center, but if you go to the page for the one you’re staying at (or look them up on a third party site like Google Maps) you can usually call them direct.
… What the hell?
The Parent Trap (Hayley Mills, of course) and that song in particular were in my head earlier…
Well, now I know my fictional heart – I like seeing Joe and Joyce meaningfully interact at least as much as (probably more than) finding out whether Mike is alive.
i love that the parent trap has its own tag now
It would be very hard to find the only other reference to it made 9 years ago otherwise. I don’t know how Willis remembers all this stuff!
I get a sense these two might actually end up in a reasonably long-term (our time, at least) relationship given how much ground’s been laid here and how much Willis has said he likes writing their interactions over on the Walkyverse reruns (where it was explored in a few alternate universes and Joe definitely had a crush he never acted on, but never a full-focus romantic arc, which leaves it fair game,) but yeah, this mindset is NOT where I’d like either of them to be for a relationship with anyone.
Then again, Ruth/Billie is currently still going strong and their origins were worse, so who knows.
(As ever, I wish all of these kids would go to therapy yesterday.)
Well maybe not so much “fucked up” rather just “fucked”.
No Joyce, life gets f—ed up enough without looking for it to be.
Depression of Age
Ah yes, this I understand. These disasters I ship.
So, Joe backslid because he was scared, and Joyce is trying to process a lot of terrible things about herself and those around her.
… Why do I still get the feeling these two would be good for each other?
Maybe because even when they “hated” each other, they somehow continued being mutually supportive of each other?
The texting really surprised me, back when it happened. Particularly how thoughtful Joe was during it.
We still don’t know Joyce’s number before she was a 0.
We do know he planned to upgrade her from a 4 to a 10.
With his penis.
*plays America’s Inspector Mills on the hacked Bluetooth speakers*
You just cannot avoid that, Joe. You can only bless the mess and hope it does not become worse.
(see: Ruth and Billie)
If they start dating on this basis, this will be our 3rd (?) currently active relationship predicated on the belief that both partners are too garbage for anyone else to date. I realize in a comic titled “Dumbing of Age” at least an occasional relationship of this type is inevitable, but 3 at once is a bit much. Ooooh! Maybe Joe will convince Joycd she’s worth dating and then help her get with Jacob?
I doubt he’d do that last thing because he thought it was fucked up how Joyce went about trying to get with Jacob before so his sympathy for that particular pain is likely 0.
Are we finally going to address Joe’s self-loathing?! 😀
At first I thought that they had been handled as a ship, but now I wonder if that last panel is Joe wondering if he’s the reason she has become jaded.
Both?
Both.
On a completely unrelated note, do you (or anyone) happen to know who our shared Gravatar is? I finaly managed to get one that looks like me… But I don’t have a slightest clue who she is?
It looks to me like it could be Penny (one of Dr. Rees’s assistants, who shared an office with fellow TA Jason), with glasses added.
That’s Beatrice, from Forest Quad.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/carrying/
Ah, thank you!
I understand what both Joyce and Joe are saying. Joyce became an edgelord because of realizing she has free will and can do evil; she envied atheists for being free, but she didn’t learn that lack of belief isn’t the same as lack of restrain. Joe on the other hand realized his hedonism was a way of escapism from the reality of his parents being divorced, and also that his hedonism could have harmed women. These two are the extremes of idealism and cynicism, and they have burned out. Joyce needs to accept that bad stuff happens, but that isn’t an excuse to abandon hope and trying to be better, and Joe needs to stop running away and accept that he is human.
The conflicts between ideals and pragmatism are tiresome, my dudes.
So what you’re saying is that they should totally hook up, right?
Meeting in the middle of two extremes.
Thesis. Anti-thesis. Sin-thesis.
Joe seems to think he’s nothing like his father regarding women. In fact, he’s exactly like his father.
Huh?
Joe thinks he’s too much like his father. That’s why he limits himself by avoiding commitment – because he thinks that if he does make an emotional connection he will inevitably betray it as his father would. What he didn’t realize until the list and Joyce rubbed his face in it, is that he’s hurting women anyway.
There are certainly elements of his father’s influence in Joe, but he’s far more aware of it and tries to minimize the harm, as Richard has never done. His attempts so far have been flawed, but they’ve always been there.
“No Joe, when you get close to people, they tend to get fucked.”
Ouch. I feel ya Joe.
Neither of them even commented of the obvious innuendo in the last panel – that’s how hard this hits for them.
I suspect that Joyce and Joe are currently thinking about what a miserable life that would be to live. I wonder how they’ll react to that realisation?
listen you SCHMUCK you’re gonna TELL ME what HAPPENED to MIKE
Hear, hear.
Theeeerrrre it is. 🙂
Okay, because you demanded it, he’ll get onto drawing the big reveal strip right this moment.
… meaning it’ll be live around mid-April.
I’m assuming he’ll tell us eventually, but you know he’s enjoying tormenting us by making us wait.
Mike has been ‘Chuck Cunningham’d…
… only instead of going up the stairs never to heard from again, he went up a fire escape, never to be heard from again.
When Danny said ‘goodbye forever Mike’, he meant it.
Mike will never be referenced by any other character ever again – and only Amazi-girl (not Amber) will have any inkling of awareness, though only from the far recesses of awareness, that something is amiss, though unsure of what or why.
you reminded me that Danny said “goodbye forever, Mike” and now I’m convinced he’s probably dead
Mike is not going to die. Even TV Tropes has him listed as a main character.
Now, being Chuck Cunningham’d, OTOH, is something I never considered, but since Willis doesn’t tend to leave loose ends (he has already written out at least one character – Penny – by getting her fired for kanoodling with students, but she got a couple strips to explain her dismissal; and though we’ve never seen her, even Dana got a backstory to explain the animosity between Raidah and Sarah) I don’t think that’s too likely to happen..
But Willis did recently tweet about breaking one of his storytelling rules. So.
I don’t think Mike is dead, but the Word of God on the subject may not be the protection you would hope.
Also, Willis has said Word of God is not immutable or unchanging in his work. He reserves the right to change his mind.
Of course he told us that so we’d think that, but was it a fair warning to us or a giant fake out. 🙂
Or in reference to a totally different rule! The only other one I can think of is about ships, but who even says that it’s a rule that we know.
The fake out would be it referring to some other rule, knowing that we’d be reading this Evil Dad sequence with it in mind.
Didn’t AntiJoyce and Joe hook up? So maybe he meant this, and they’ll get together..?
A slightly evil part of me kinda wants him to rub Jacob’s face in it: “What can I say bro? You fucked up. She’s amazing. Still working out exactly who she is as a person and de-brainwashing herself after her Fundie upbringing – but she tries, she’s insightful, has a heart of gold… She makes me feel like being a better person is possible and worth the work.” Ooooh – maybe this is where this is going, leading to Jacob falling into Shortpacked-esque sex addiction..?
He’s never had an explicit rule against retreading old ships, but re-covering old ground, so to speak – the most recent Word of God I remember on the subject being that he was not opposed to the idea if he could find something new to do with the relationship. This is why Ruth and Billie, Mandy/Grace/Sierra, Zaph and Rose, Peter and Mary, Sal and Jason for a time, and even – in a way – Walky and Dorothy, have all gotten explored or hinted at to some extent in Dumbing of Age; all of those relationships existed in the Walkyverse(s), but the way they’re approached in the Dumbingverse is different.
If you were responding to me, I know, I just said “about ships” as a shorthand for that.
I do think I’d rather that rule be broken than Mike dead, but neither seems super likely to me.
“Garbage roof..?”
“Garbage roof.”
Nailed it!
Joyce may be in a mood, but I don’t see her getting garbage roofied.
Wow how did you go into my mind and write a dramatization of the dysfunctional relationship I had in college.
Yeah, they gonna fuck
Joe has grown! Old Joe would’ve left off the “up”.
why_not_both.png
Is he including her on that list of people he’s both close to and has fucked up?
I’m pretty sure that Joyce and Joe are going to end up doing something stupid, very much against both their better judgements. However, given the emotional pressures on them, it would be very surprising if they are able to avoid the pitfall.
I want them to end up together. But not now as idiot impulsive freshmen. Later, past the end date of this comic. When they are Juniors and seniors. When Joe has hopefully slowed down the machismo and Joyce has gotten past the edgyness and accepted certain pre concieved ideas about the world.
[pregnant pause and stare]
Hehe, you said “pregnant”.
Didn’t we see a version of this conversation with Ruth and Billie? Hopefully Joyce and Joe won’t make a sexy suicidal pact.
(I wouldn’t mind the sexy part though… Just saying. Even if I would like to see this particularly ship happening more in the future. They both have some personal growth to do.)
I’m getting a much bigger “we can be garbage together” feel and I’m totally okay with that.
They can be outsiders together. Far healthier than Billie and Ruth’s relationships.
Also: MIIIIIIIIIKE! WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HIM?
(But as much I want to see him alive, I’m more interested in this conversation right now. Does that mean I’m a bad person? No, don’t answer that.)
We are all garbage here – Damn you Willis!
And Joe now thinks is his fault if Joyce is in crisis…. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
“It’s almost as if we were characters in a David Willis cartoon.”
That’s what I said when we subscribed to Disney + in spite of knowing better.
Just try saying that to Danny, Joe.
I’m worried Joyce is going to do more things she regrets (maybe not specifically fucking Joe but maybe), and come to the conclusion that life without God is seriously screwing up her life, and that she was wrong to pull away from religion. “So this is why the church says God is important… see how fucked up I get when He’s not in my life? Mom was right all along!”
It would be an easy conclusion to come to, from her limited frame of reference.
Mind you, is it a bad thing to find fulfillment in religion? I mean, it depends on your belief in the supernatural or not, but the big thing in Joyce’s case is her mother and church are supporting a terrorist (Ross) not religion in general (Becky).
Not just supporting a terrorist, but all the other crap in that particular brand of religion that’s messing up her life. No, there’s nothing wrong with finding fulfillment in religion, at least in my atheist opinion, but Joyce is going to have to make a serious break whether it’s from religion entirely or from the toxic version she was raised in to a better form. She’s too tied to it, in ways Becky never was. Becky can apparently change her internalized faith to match her growth without much struggle. Joyce can’t.
A shame she and Jacob couldn’t have any conversations but my hope is Joyce finds whatever fulfillment she needs in-universe. Presumably as a pornographic cartoonist married to Dorothy.
🙂
What?
Then she’s gonna become a youth group leader and use this as an example of how people are nothing without God.
I think it’s fascinating how Joe has so much hatred and resentment for his father due to the man’s chronic cheating. So much so that he decided to avoid any and all serious relationships. Ironically, it has made him pretty much exactly the kind of douchebag he thinks his father is while also being angry his father wants to settle down into a serious relationship.
It feels very Eleanor Shellstrop to me (The Good Place spoilers ahead). She encounters her mother trying to be a good mom and wife and is hurt because if her mom was always capable of changing into a better person, she felt that since her mom hadn’t done it while raising Eleanor means that Eleanor wasn’t good enough.
I don’t know which would make Joe angrier – his dad once again flaking and cheating (and showing how irresponsible he still is) or actually making the change for the better after all this time (once Joe is out of his active care, cause you know his dad was not the most responsible dad).
I think the latter would frustrate him, and he’d wait for the other shoe to drop, but I still think he’d pick it over Amber’s mom getting hurt, especially if he knows any details about how that previousrelationship went.
Joe thinks lying to get what you want is the key problem with what his father did at least that’s what he’s telling himself.
The problem is Joe never bothered to learn how to seek casual hookups with minimal making women uncomfortable if that’s how he wants to do things. He instead has choosen the path as identifying himself as a douche up front which makes people uncomfortable in a different way and provides cover for the worse douchbags.
Their is proberly a bit of what Nep said of if his father and men in general are capable of being better than why not for him.
A problem is Dick basically claimed that’s he won’t cheat on Stacey because she’s better then Joes mom, instead of claiming that he regrets what he did and will do better this time, or saying what he plans on doing differently because the magical power of Stacey’s awesomeness will not protect him from his desires forever. So either Dick is deluding himself or coming right out and saying it if it is like Eleanor.
Precisely on that last point. It’s not that Joe’s hypocritically mad at his dad for wanting a committed relationship, it’s that he doesn’t believe his dad will stick with it.
And as you suggest, Dick hasn’t given Joe or us any reason to think he will. No reason to think he’s changed or even recognized he has a problem and is trying to change.
It’s interesting to wonder why Joemom and Joedad were so miserable together. It might be different than Joe believes (even if it’s very likely, “We made each other deeply unhappy.”)
Oh right, you’re the one who wants to blame the cheating on Joe’s mom, based on no evidence whatsoever. I’d forgotten.
We don’t know they were miserable. We know he cheated. There is no reason at all to think he cheated because they were miserable, rather than them being miserable because he cheated.
We’re not going to get a “He cheated on her because she wasn’t a good wife” story here. Sorry.
What the hell are you talking about?
WE KNOW they’re miserable because JOE SAID THEY WERE MISERABLE.
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*looks at watch, taps foot*
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We Can Ship It
Joyce is seriously not in a good mental state right now. I think Joe is a good influence for her right now – to me the glance in the last panel is seeing Joyce as another person he’s broken by getting too close to.
Joyce has had her first real brush with wanting to do good but still doing bad, her last bit of faith – in the goodness of herself – is breaking to bits, and she’s lost her foundations. I hope her friends get it and can be there for her to help her through.
…. so how did we have THIS comic and then go an entire day without a single comment containing the phrase “Eat at Arby’s”?
To obvious.
I would give a nickel for their thoughts in the last panel.
… See this right here is why we need Mike.