This Saturday and Sunday, I gonna be in CANADA! Come see me at TCAF (Toronto Comic Arts Festival) in, you know, Toronto! I’ll be at Table 248, Second Floor of the Toronto Reference Library. I’ll have books! I’ll have magnets! I’ll have prints! I’ll have an everlasting need to visit locations filmed in Short Circuit 2!
my trip to canada funded in part by a grant from the greater columbus arts council
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define “good”
…and “person”
…….and “a”
“Is” also requires definition.
Found Bill Clinton!
Oh good, I need this alto sax countersolo covered. It’ll be a great backup to this alto clarinet solo.
“That being said, I personally would avoid visiting the planet Vormir with her.”
Nah, Carol would have to toss her Fox News cable subscription for that.
She would never giver up Caucasian Jesus!
Yeah – two beat panels in response to a question tend to be a better answer than whatever follows it.
Speaking of “beat”, you beat me to it by seconds. Good on ya.
Those two silent panels with Jocelyne speak volumes.
It’s like “she… Uhhhhhhhhhh… Weeeeeeelllll”
“Good can mean several different things in different contexts… um… LEGALLY speaking a case could be made that…. eh…. if you follow the strict meaning um… there are….
her cookies are good?”
Is she good like a Christian would mean?
… wait.
I really like this one and the honesty. I hope Joyce gets to talk about leaving church early with Hank and Becky.
and I didn’t notice her t-shirt or undershirt was pink until just now but I like it.
Also @ Willis, on mobile I’m getting ads that are making it so that even if I zoom in to prevent fat fingering it, I can’t post non reply comments anymore.
Yeah, the ads both on the computer and on mobile have gotten really aggressive as of yesterday. Obviously the impact is worse on mobile, but I hope both can be addressed.
I was wondering what the deal with all those ads were.
Same, but there’s a very tiny x on the far right you can press to get rid of it.
If only the far right came equipped with such an “x”….
Yikes
ROFL!
+5
I’d like to think so too, Joss, but I saw Carol when the chips were down with Becky and I was not impressed.
I can’t blame her though – I’d want to think the same of my mother.
Goodness is something you do, Joyce, and everybody has to keep their own account on whether someone’s balanced out the good things they did with the bad things they did because morality is subjective. Which is…unhelpful in a time like this, but you’ll get there.
I think sometimes, too, when we really want to believe someone’s good, we set the required intensity of the situation as high as we can. Like, “Yeah, Mom was shitty to Becky, but if Becky were in immediate physical danger…” Or, more for this situation, “Yeah, Mom was shitty to Becky, but maybe… if the situation was with one of her own kids, she could come around.”
But we don’t often have a lot of data for situations of that intensity, so we fill in the blanks with what we’d like to believe, or we do have data but we amend the fictional situation more in response.
It’s just sad seeing them dealing with that wanting.
Like, it’d have to be worse than a trusted family friend pointing a loaded gun in her youngest child and only daughter’s face because Joyce told Carol about that and rather than demanding his head on a pike, she made waffly excuses for Ross.
That scene damned Carol in my book.
The man pointed a gun at her child. A gun. At her child.
Most mothers I know, Ross would need police protection after that.
I’m not a mom and don’t ever plan to be because I don’t enjoy being in charge of kids, but I think even *I* would demand Ross’ head on a pike if he pointed a un at my friends’ kid.
Exactly, that’s less dependent upon being a decent mom and more dependent upon being a decent human being.
Pretty much.
But he’s white and has such a promising future. It would ruin his life yada yada yada.
He was in his forties and had no neck. Futures don’t [i]get[/i] more promising than that!
Point of order: Only daughter she knows about. Jocelyne doesn’t trust her enough to reveal that she actually has two daughters. Which says a lot, doesn’t it?
Yes, absolutely true.
*only daughter as CAROL understands it 🙂
Just want to make sure we give Jocelyne her due!
Trufax.
Yeah I guess it doesn’t help her track record that she sided with the guy who aimed a loaded gun at her only daughter and youngest kid.
“You know how they say ‘don’t trust anybody over thirty’? In Hazzard County, that age is more like…SEVEN.”–The Balladeer on The Dukes of Hazzard
Niiiiiiiice
oh fuck, that silence……
Does the alt-text confirm Jocelyne as being 22, or is it a hint that we’ve been grossly misled about her character.
I mean, the first seems a lot more likely, but
Yeah, wondering about that too. If Jocelyne’s no more than 4 years older than Joyce (which is perfectly believable), then I imagine she was quite young when she was fighting for her and Joyce’s right to enjoy Halloween…
I wouldn’t figure Jocelyne has being more than five years older anyway, so either way that’s still young. I am going to amend my mental timeline to her being four years older now, though.
I always figured 4 or 5 years older, since she’s already graduated, but not that much older because of that flashback bonus strip.
According to Joyce, John is “by far” the oldest and has been out of the house almost as long as she can remember. That suggests a bigger age gap between him and Jordan than between Jordan and Jocelyne.
Joyce: 18
Jocelyne: 22-23
Jordan: 26-27?
John: Early to mid thirties
That sounds about right.
If the Jordan incident occurred in or around college, that would have put Joyce in the 10-13 range when it happened and that’s young enough to get the “when you’re older” treatment without too much resistance. At least in their kind of household.
Joycelyne almost certainly knows though. Much harder to keep whatever it was from someone in their late teens.
To be fair, by ‘fighting’ it’s perfectly possible it was mostly just pointing at John and Jordan and playing the favouritism/it’s-not-fair-you-let-them-do-it card, which is pretty age neutral, as childhood arguments go…
I can’t remember where, but I recall it was mentioned that there was a large gap between the 2 eldest and 2 youngest siblings.
That’s a very long way of saying “no”.
But then Jocelyne is clearly still trying to love her Mom, not realizing she’s already decided Mom can’t be trusted with basic life and death issues, even if she can be dealt with on smaller things.
I think Jocelyne knows damn well Mom can’t be trusted with basic life and death issues – like her trans daughter.
But yeah, it’s a hard thing to struggle with or admit out loud.
Also a hard thing to have to tell your little sister who’s desperately hoping for a yes.
It’s also not super cool to say, “Mom is a terrible human being,” to your little sister.
Oh Joss…
Gosh I hope she can come out someday.
I feel for these two right now, I feel like Jocelyn desperately wants to believe what she says in the last panel is true and as much as we rag on Carol you still got to understand from Joyce and Jocelyns point of The View.
Think about your own mother who you loved and raised you, then imagine after growing up and growing out of your child like naivete you start to get disillusioned about who they really are. Then imagine struggling with the idea that maybe they might be a bad person…. would you believe it that easily or would you rather want to hold out hope that when they need to make a right choice they’ll pull through?
From personal experience it took me a while to realize my mother was fallible but when I did it was pretty easy to accept she was an awful person
Joyce truly thought her mother was perfect right up until she stated her intent of bragging about her daughter not being racist, then acted like Dorothy had Hellspawn-leprosy because she’s an atheist. Poor kiddo tried to stop growing as a person in case it meant her parents wouldn’t love her any more a little while back (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/vacuum/). Her dad demonstrated new depths of fab to her, but between her mum siding with Becky’s father over her, and blaming a child for having her parent hunt her with his gun…
So much sympathy for Joyce here: It’s taken me years, because my mom is loving *to me*. And it took a while to realize that treating *me* with love is not *being a good person.* So much sympathy for the sisters, here.
I left my dads in my teens and I live half way across the country from the other half. This isn’t just a situation of how one is raised but also a personality type. It’s a lot easier if you’re independent inclined and head strong from the get go. You lose a lot of the what if, respect for authority, et. That might hold you back.
Ooooo Big yikes. Yikes
Oof, the decision whether to be honest or not completely crushing your baby sister’s image of their parental figure.
Well, it depends on what your definition of “is” is.
Well Joyce the truth is mom is actually the reincarnation of Xanthomorpapias the unborn one, who has existed since the dawn of time and who’s many grasping hands born of blood reach into the mind of man. Soon her true spawn will arrive and all those who do not worship her many heads will be eradicated.
But she does make good cookies.
Although, in deference to her origins in the 777th pit of the Nightosphere, they do contain raisins.
You say that like it’s supposed to be a bad thing.
Is it weird I like oatmeal raisin cookies, but I don’t really like raisins? A raisin by itself its just depressing.
My mom used to make chocolate chip cookies, except with raisins instead of chocolate chips. I loved those, but eventually noticed she only made them if I was going to be home for Christmas. No one else in the family would eat them.
We had a big raisin flamewar on the QC Patreon a while back.
Hmm. You wouldn’t happen to be from the Nightosphere, would you?
Well, I do have an affinity for the quiet and dark hours of the “day”…
Anti-raisin folks are a weird bunch.
Do you… not even look at your food before you eat it? How do you not notice the clear visual and textural differences between raisins and chocolate before you take a bite? Pay attention to the world around you!
It’s not that we don’t spot the raisins, it’s that you had the opportunity to’ve used chocolate chips instead and *didn’t*. Thus, a betrayal.
It helps me not eat ALL the cookies. Half the batch gets chocolate (preferably dark) and half gets raisins. That way my husband inhales half of them before I even consider if it’s worth pulling out raisins for more oatmeal cookie goodness.
And besides, the endless shifting mouths of her writhing form end up making these kickass eldritch harmonies when she sings Beyonce covers
The truth can hurt you.
Granted, so can a blunt object swung at your head by some sort of neanderthal in a dark alley. But all things considered, I’d take that over the truth any day of the week.
The truth was that I had followed my client’s case to a pretty seedy place where I had asked some pretty seedy questions of some pretty seedy characters. Apparently, one of them had been less than charmed by my line of inquiries, and opted to registers the grievances via the tried and true method of “Goon with tire iron”.
“Step off this case!”, said goon growled, and I just managed to roll to the side before the tire iron struck the spot where my head until recently had been.
“But I’m just getting started,” I panted and crawled into temporary shelter among the other trash in the end of the alley. “Your boss DO know where Mullins is hiding, right? Why else would she send you to play xylophone on my head?” The goon flung away the trashcan I was hiding behind with one fist, as large as a small construction vehicle.
“Maybe she just doesn’t like you that much,” the goon drawled as she one-handed dragged me out of my hiding hole. “Maybe she finds you as annoying as I do.”
See, the truth hurts.
“You are wounding me,” I said, slithering out of my trenchcoat still in the goon’s grip and down on the pavement. “Just as we were finding a professional report you had to go and make it all personal.” I took a few measured steps out of the alley. The goon followed, leering.
“Yeah, how about I show you ‘personal’? You really want to know why my boss won’t give up Mullins? Thing like that would grate on THEIR professional report.” I didn’t like the sound of that.
“What are you saying? That Mullins…”
“…would perhaps not be as good a person as you’d hope, little snoop. Probably best for you if you never find him – you’d be pretty disappointed if you did.” And she lunged at me.
Or rather, at the spot where I had been just a moment before I flung myself out in the street, grabbing the railing of the tram that just came around the corner. Good ol’ number three – faithfully seventeen minutes behind schedule. The goon howled in rage and considered running after me, but we were turning downhill and the tram quickly picked up speed.
I calmly left the platform and found a seat, ignoring the dirty looks the tram conductor gave me.
I had much to ponder and none of it good. Mostly I wondered what I would tell my client. I was hired to dig up some dirt. Killing her heroes was another thing altogether. I did not look forward to breaking that news. But then, she would have known it would be bad – she wouldn’t have come to me otherwise.
My name is Jocelyne, and that’s the truth. Not everyone knows that. Not everyone can handle it.
#JocelyneNoir
Jeez i just realized its been literal months since I wrote an installment of Dungeons and Dumbing.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/fights/
Maybe I should finish that.
And the story continues…
“The goon flung away the trashcan I was hiding behind with one fist, as large as a small construction vehicle.”
…alright, is the trashcan supposed to be as large as a small construction vehicle, or the goon’s fist? Either way, I’m now not so much picturing a simple “goon” as I am picturing someone practically building-sized. 😛
I said it was a SMALL construction vehicle 🙂
All the same…unless it’s “small” even by hobbit standards or somethin’. 😛
Ooh, Bagge fanfiction! Yay, some levity after this heavy comic!
… Oh : (
(well written as always, though!)
I can’t let things go Joycelyne’s way, can I? What sort of noir detective would she be if she didn’t end up landing in the trash during a fistfight in an alley 🙂
Thanks so much! Have have WAY too much fun.
…a professional rapport…
But good work. Engaging, and you caught me with the genderf**k on the goon.
Ah, you said it before me.
Ah, thanks. I hack these things together at breakfast so lot of small error slink through.
I’m a firm believer in equal opportunity gooning.
The word is ‘rapport’. I wouldn’t comment, but I had to read it several times before I realised what you meant.
There are a few cases of “wrong word used”. I assumed it was autocorrect, and they made the sentence more entertaining anyway.
Nah, not autocorrect. My approach to spelling is to aim for a word that sounds about right, and that usually ends up a bit hit and miss.
But as you say – half of the time it just adds to the madness. Longtime readers of Joycelyne Noir remember the diapered chipmunks 🙂
Saved for great justice!
… diapered … Wait, what?
🙂
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/frame/#comment-1107589
Yeah, that means ‘no’ , Joyce, sorry.
The heartbreaking part is that I can’t tell whether Jocelyne is lying to herself, trying to be gentle on Joyce, or hiding what she really thinks about Carol because she still isn’t sure how much she can trust Joyce
All of the possibilities lead to sadness
My best guess is the last two.
I really think after everything with Becky that Jocelyn is more trusting of Joyce. Not ready to come out yet, but… closer. She’s found a family member that’s more on her wavelength, and that matters.
I’m really getting a “Trying to lie to herself but knows it isn’t true, deep down, while also trying to let Joyce hold on to the relationship she has now, without getting in to things” kinda vibe. On some level, it doesn’t feel like there’s anything else she could say there
I think she’s being honest, and that’s why she hasn’t come out to her parents (or even hinted at having different beliefs)—because she’s rather keep thinking that her mom would do the right thing when it came down to it (I.e. when it came to her own kids) than have proof that she would NOT.
I’d go with a tangled confusing mess of all three.
It’s hedgespeak! Proof that all those alternative folk are witches! Hedge hedge hedge… witch!
I’m thinking she’s trying to convince herself.
These poor girls. I’m adopting them both.
When it really came down to it, Carol didn’t do the right thing.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/icebreaker/
Hank did the right thing.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/roadtrip/
John didn’t.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/settledown/
Joycelyne did
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/personal/
Joyce – obviously – did
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/pit/
Pastor Landrum and Pastor Powers didn’t.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/landrum/
Toedad…. um… wow… yeah, fudge that guy.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/deceptress/
I can’t believe he died in that car crash and got devoured by a roaming band of raccoons. Becky’s been handling that very well, so far.
Oh no.
Such waste.
So sad.
I don’t think pastor Landrum is good or did good, but I think he was better than youth pastor Powers.
Yeah, well, “youth pastor.”
I mean, chlamydia is better than syphilis…
When my ship is threatened by syphilis and chlamydia, I’ll attach myself to a long rigid object, tell others to put semi-firm stuff into some of their orifices, then try to slip between as quickly as possible.
When it comes to the two of them, I don’t really care about HOW bad they are.
I care about the fact that none of them met the lowest possible minimum requirement of being NOT-bad: Acknowledging Becky’s existence.
Chris Phoenix: That’s quite a… vivid image you have there.
I REALLY need a saucy version of Odysseen in my life.
(I mean, half the stuff is VERY easy to make into innuendo anyway, and I’m pretty sure that’s how it was told in Homers days half of the time).
Chris Phoenix: I think you confused Scylla and Charybdis with the Sirens.
Punaparta: You’re right, I did. Sigh.
oh fuck. I know that look. That’s the “if I move funny I’m going to say something so horrible it’ll make their mind crack like an egg, but I REALLY DON’T WANT TO” look.
Also the “I’m so glad we are talking on the phone right now and you can’t actually see my expression”-expression.
Yes.
It is, in fact, also that expression.
Well that’s a telling expression…
More of a not telling expression.
Well, this is the first one to make me cry in a while…
That’s about as honest and painless an answer that can be given really. Good job Jocelyn, keep up that writing career!
In order to be a good writer you have to learn empathy. Because you will have all these different characters doing different things and you have to understand their motivation. Otherwise they come off as one-dimensional villains.
At least, that’s what Sarah Schulman says in her book “Conflict is Not Abuse”
I feel like at this point Jocelyne’s greatest strength and weakness is her fear of just ripping that band-aid off. On the one hand, I speak no hyperbole when I say it’s what’s kept her alive.
On the other hand, well… what kind of life? Never expressing herself truly, always afraid, and giving Joyce the answer both of them _want_ rather than the one they need. Helpful as it’s been (you don’t just dump all that on someone like Joyce immediately) they’re going to learn the hard way very soon. Oh yes.
My experience was that a more gradual transition was better for my health and happiness. Ripping the bandaid off is great in theory, but hurts like hell- and quite literally can be traumatic.
Humans aren’t meant to work through that much baggage all at once. You gotta go step by step, or you might not make it all the way through. Letting someone pull themselves along at their own pace will always be more effective than trying to force them to realize anything.
It probably won’t work out that gently, but I think that, to be able to ask the question, Joyce knows the answer, even if she doesn’t want to admit it quite yet. She’ll get there.
Of course ripping the bandaid off is traumatic. You’re right on all counts.
Except Jocelyne has a short supply of places she can ease herself in. And she’s going to have to come out someday. Joyce will have to admit what kind of person her mother is too.
It’s traumatic, but I don’t see either Joyce or Jocelyne having options that aren’t.
As Joycelyn is no longer living with their parents, there will be areas of her life where she doesn’t need to pretend. And I guess not wanting to leave Joyce behind is one of the reasons she’s not out to her family yet.
But, you know, this conversation might be the start of not losing Joyce when she does come out to her family.
I think the start was their talk at lunch after John left, but this is another step.
Sometimes a Mullins is just a Mullins.
Jocelyne would like to think that. Who wouldn’t in her situation?
But I think she knows. Still trying not to admit it, maybe, even to herself… but she knows. And that’s why she hides, and makes plans. For what will happen, someday.
Oh, she 100% knows. On some level, anyway. Why else would she clearly be taking so much time and effort to formulate an answer?
It’s quite possible Jocelyne just had an image of either of the upcoming holiday dinners at the Brown home flash through her mind with their potential fallout when Joyce, barely into college life, is already asking this question.
Apart from all the serious stuff, I completely adore Jocelyne’s expression in the second panel.
It’s the “Oh Joyce you are so unbelievably adorable in a patently hilarious way”-expression. Dorothy has been known to sport it at times as well.
Joyce has been mulling over Mullins.
Jocelyn, mood and a half right there.
What would it take for it to “really come down to it?” If when the time came, a person will always have a reason not to do the right thing, can you really say they’d do the right thing?
Anyway, it’s a hell of a thing to have to consider whether one (or both) of your parents is a good person, and I can’t blame Joss for wanting to try to shield Joyce from that. Or herself, really.
We’d always like to think that.
No she wouldn’t
This comes up so many times when I see the the things my family shares on Facebook.
Oh geez, too true. :/
This whole story with Joyce has been very interesting.
Also, coming from someone who knew Rich, I would say he definitely was a good person. Though all ‘good’ people make mistakes, and he made lots of those, he couldn’t do anything but apologize and ask for forgiveness and continue his trek forward.
Anyway, I’m so invested in this story at the moment. 🙂
Oh, did you know him in person? I’m so glad to hear he was indeed a good person. That’s always been my impression, but as we’re seeing, people can be completely wrong about their heroes.
Yes, that’s true. Though from what Joyce has been conflicted about, in terms of if he would have been “disappointed” in her, thinking in this context and having known Rich, I don’t believe he would have ridiculed her. He made a clear distinction between helping friends and sharing in their struggles in faith, and down right judging them, and in the time I knew him, I never knew him to judge other people (though he made some sarcastic remarks to critisicm every now and then :D).
As was delivered in the well cultured tones of Stella Skarsgård: “It’s not a bad thing finding out you don’t have all the answers. You start asking the right questions.”
Also, wow, there are so many Ruth gravatars… ^~^;
Still working within the framework of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people I see. Not that I’d expect her to have gotten past that while still so early in her awakening.
I think it becomes more nebulous on the good side, but there’s a lot of really clear, cut, and dry ways of being a bad person, and they mostly involve hurting other people.
I see it like this, it’s true what they say that everything in life isn’t just black and white but everything isn’t particularly gray either. If there is a gray area mankind as a whole would be exactly that.
It’s just really easy for any of us to sway towards either of the two ways.
If nothing else, I’m really happy that Jocelyne is saying something is up. That Carol’s beliefs are wrong, and that Joyce is in the right. I think Joyce really needed to hear this from someone she trusts.
Compare this to July 28, 2013. Can we all appreciate how much Joyce has grown to be able to even think that question, much less say it out loud, to another person?
I hope Jocelyn realizes that Joyce’s asking that means she is safe.
She’s grown so much and I feel so proud.
In short: no
Asking this is like asking if BoJack Horseman is a good person. Sometimes you have to acknowledge your own evil if you want to become good and prove that Rachel is wrong.
Oof.
I never had this exact conversation with my oldest sister, but I’ve had enough like it.
The accuracy hurts, tbh.
Oh gosh, I hope my younger brother *never* asks me that question. I will also go through those uncomfortable expression panels. (The answer to the question will be the same, I’m just not so diplomatic.)
That’s a joke, though–my brother would never ask me that. He’s still in the tail end of his “I know everything” phase. 😛
But also, that expression in the 2nd panel is super cute and I love her.
Joyce: Is mom a good person?
-Record Scratch-
Jocelyn internally: You might have wondered how I got in this situation…
I certainly hope Jocelyn is right. On an unrelated note, I wonder if Jocelyn is interested in physically transitioning or if she’ll ever do so?
That would require a lot of courage considering her family situation… then again I’m sure that once she gets her life in order Becky would be very supportive.
Oh I agree with you, I just wonder if her reason for not having done so yet is fear of her family, lack of funds, or some other reason. I have known a few trans women who chose not to physically transition because they lacked a desire to do so and were comfortable simply dressing and otherwise presenting as female without medical intervention. I’m just curious as an intersex man who transitioned to male in young adulthood.
If I recall correctly she is trying to make it as a freelance writer, which means that lack of funds and little or no health insurance are likely important factors in her decisions.
I get the impression that her fear of family and lack of funds go hand in hand. Until she either gets her big break, gets another supplamental job , or wins the lottery she’s going to need her parents financial support. And I get the impression that the best she can hope for once she comes out will be having her parents monitor every dollar they give her to make sure its not used for something they deem evil.
TemperaryObsessor I would hope her dad would at least be supportive, but I can completely see her mom going all exorcist spinning head about it. It sucks being financially vulnerable
I mean she could easily be already? Comic hasn’t said anything one way or the other so far and you can hide HRT changes for a while.
True, but she likely hasn’t since she hasn’t come out yet and getting hrt first, would make her have to come out sooner than later.
It is a child’s nature to want to believe the best of their parents.
Only because we have no other choice.
This is more generally known as Stockholm syndrome
From Halloween to heavy weight questions in just two strips.
Also, given Carol’s reaction to Toe dad pointing a gun in not only his own child’s face, but her child’s, I’d say it’s pretty clear she is not, at this time, a good person. As I said above though, I would hope if Carol had been there, if she was really present for a bad situation and not just hearing about it after things turned out alright, that she would do the right thing.
She’d probably have just joined in and browbeat Becky into getting in the car. Maybe that’s uncharitable, but I’m feeling especially misanthropic and today, so fuck ‘er.
Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past her to do so, but I still hope she wouldn’t because it’d be nice to see one crappy parent change their ways.
Hank’s on that road, if it helps.
To me often times reactions of fictional characters in one situation can pair with reactions in other situations to make those actions either better or worse. For example trying to defend the guy who aimed a gun at your daughters head to your daughter could be a misguided attempt to teach forgiveness, but if she passive aggressively snipes his other victim its not forgiveness she believes in.
Whoof. This is where Dumbing of Age really shines. Nothing else like this out there.
Fingers crossed for a storyline where Joyce realizes her mom is not, in fact, a good person.
The definite end of her childhood.
FWIW, I think that Joyce realised this during her weekend at home along with Becky. It’s just that only now is she in the right mental and emotional place to start articulating this knowledge to herself.
Those two beat panels make it pretty clear that the answer is no.
To me, the white-background panel suggests Jocelyn was shocked by the question and realised that she didn’t like the answer that immediately popped into her mind. As I posted above, it is a child’s nature to want to think the best of their parents but Jocelyn also owes Joyce the truth at a time like this.
Good and bad are such extreme concepts. Why not something more moderate?
“She’s a jerk, Joyce Brown. A complete kneebiter.”
Because she is more than a jerk. She actively devalues the lives of others and is ok with *potentially lethal harm* to them for nothing worse than being different.
“Good” is a spectrum of gray with each of us good and bad in different ways; we wax and wane on different days. Some things aren’t neutral or gray. They’re just wrong. “Bad” if you will. If you choose those things consistently over time, you are…Bad.
Redeemable? Sure, most are. But doesn’t mean you’re not bad now.
Hitchhiker’s Guide isn’t super relevant these days huh?
One of those days where your heart really breaks for everyone on the page
I’m only here to cheer for Jocelyne, my favourite character, getting more screen time. I mean, also, be sad about why and what she’s having to do and all, but mainly just cheering seeing her and seeing her be a fantastic big sister.
I have a massive soft-spot for Joyce, and thus for the author-insert (damn you, Willis!), so that she is being comforted effectively and well by her big sister is equally tear jerking. I didn’t know how much I needed this sequence of events right now, but I totally did.
Well done, Willis, you’re making a married grown adult, with children, nearly cry with teen-drama about children older than my own. Damn you, Willis!
I’d comment on the plotline, but I am a hair’s breadth from messy sobs!
oh no Jocelyne can see us and looked to us for an answer and frowned not finding one so he made something up.
come back miss sakaki! D:
.. Oof. And knowing Joyce is also an author-insert..
.. *EXTRA* oof.
(Also, dang, that face Jocelyn makes is just amazing and perfect.)
On one hand, I’m glad I didn’t have to have this convo with my younger brother. On the other hand, I’m sad because the reason I didn’t have to have this convo with my younger brother was that he already knew the answer.
Man, sometimes this comic hits hard. I mean, it means Willis is doing it right, which is great, but… whoof.
Call the NRA and turn off basic cable.
That’s a loaded question right there.
*furious eye twitch*
I realize people aren’t all good and all bad, but considering the definition of what those are seem to be more skewed the more the days go on, I’ma say this.
It’s okay to say yes, Jocelyne.
oof @both of them.
My younger brother has been asking me things along this line of thought recently as a high schooler, and honestly, there’s no good answer to give him. Our parents love us, but they don’t know what the best thing to do for us is pretty much ever. They can only make decisions based off what they think is right and judging by our reactions. This doesn’t mean they don’t fuck up a lot – it just means they’re human.
Unrelated, but when he starts the convo, it’s usually right when I get him from school and that 22 minute drive home is one of the weirdest straight faced internal battles to have against yourself lmao
It is never easy to think of a close, loved one, especially a Family member, as anything other than a good, decent, person. You want that person to be the pleasant memories you have, when you were a child. Things get really uncomfortable, when reality gives you new revelations that what you perceive, may not be what is actually real. It might pain Joyce, a lot, but she is going to have to come to terms with the idea that the person Joyce thought was her Mother, is not who she really is.
Well, that sure stabbed me right in the anxiety (my mom is great and supportive, actually, but when it comes to coming out… you just never know)
JSYK: On desktop chrome, I’m getting video ads that pop up in those little mini windows on the corner on the screen (that I can’t banish), and rather obtrusive side banners that go right up to the edge of the comic (also can’t banish)
I dunno, didn’t she try to defend the psycho who fired a shotgun on school property and tried to kidnap his daughter?
In a filtered form. She was making it about her. I mean, did she even like Ross before things went South in a way that felt like an attack on *her* credibility as a Parent Whom Wants the Best for Her Kids like everyone else…Doubt she made any efforts to visit him in prison, or would have been interested in doing so even if their wasn’t an ounce of stigma to it. This isn’t unusual for nuclear families that spend their lives making excuses for/ rationalizations for a emotionally needy family leader whose credibility in their role can not be diminished or penalized over anything. It helps to compare her defense of Ross’s lack of sense to Willy Loman shouting “SPITE! SPIIITE!!” when his eldest son is trying to talk to him about things he doesn’t want to cope with….
It was a rifle, not a shotgun.
Thank you!
I’ve been here with my parents. I still am, really. Especially my father. It’s tough as shit.
Jocelyn panel 5- “oh fuck, I didn’t expect that conversation to happen right now.”
Jocelyn panel 6- “oh fuck, I have to lie to her.”
Joyce: “Also, Dorothy says Santa doesn’t exist and Sierra says that Jesus didn’t have a blue sash. Is that true?”
“…and that Jesus doesn’t have a blue sash, or blue eyes.”
GASP!
Jesus someone decided to bring the big calibers from the “Armor Piercing Question” Section.
Jocelyne quick, Press Esc! PRESS ESC!
Just saying “no” would be the better answer.
Your mother has moved beyond your puny human concepts of good and evil
The look on your face when you gut answer is “No, no she’s not.”
“Sometimes it’s wise to keep our expectations low. That way we’re never disappointed.”
That’s the face of someone who asked herself the exact same thing, maybe not even that long ago.
It’s hard when you realize that your parents aren’t perfect, and it’s even harder when you know they’re wrong. In a fundamental way that you might not ever even be able to change, and even if you can, it’s gonna be hard.
Lol
Fundamental
…ah, pun was definitely accidental, but it’s there
That last question I often wonder about my own parents and if they would ever accept me coming out.
I hide myself to them and almost everyone around me. It’s easier to stay hidden when it’s consistent. I’m not even gonna log this under my normal username for that purpose.
It wasn’t about Rich Mullins! Who was it about?
Mom
Courtesy of Piet Hein:
“Dream Interpretation Simplified
Everything’s either concave or -vex
So whatever you dream will be something with sex.”
Panels 5, 6, and 7, hurt my heart. That’s looking like heartache, right thre.
Posting just to say I had never listened to Rich Mullins before today, and as a Catholic I gotta say you contemporary worshipers get pretty cool music. (Though what Catholic hymns lack in catchiness, they make up for in impact.)