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It’s just the DIGITAL (PDF only) tiers that are sadly left out because, like, there is no envelope, I am sorry. I can’t shove the magnet through the computer.
You don’t gotta add her to your PICK THREE or PICK FIVE MAGNETS tiers. She’s thrown in as a bonus. You now get four and six magnets for those tiers, respectively. And if you got COMPLETE MAGNET POWER, she’s thrown on the big ol’ pile.
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Joyce has just the right amount of…Joyce here. I can’t put it any other way.
Ethank you
You’re Welcarla.
No probleslie
And there was much rejoyceing
Okay, this has gone too far. Walky it back.
TRuth
Marcie beaucoup.
Raidahabout now, Imma gonna call it a night.
Asma your right.
I Ken understand why you feel that way.
I Dinaae understand what’s going on here.
‘Sal just a running gag.
Que sarah, sarah.
Come one, come all to the riff on names club! It’s open mike night!
I wanted to play too, so I thought of a great pun, but now I can’t Remamber what it was, hoping malayater it will come to me. I am sorry, please dot hate me.
This conversation beckyns to me.
Are you joeking?
This chain has me so short of breath, I think it’s setting off my
AsmaBLOWJOB CAT.Jacobbling just words together, don’t you?
Jocelyne into it
Jacob only being academically religious also feels kinda…. sad.
What if Joyce causes him to abandon his structured lifestyle, and they have a rebel romance? Not sure how I’d feel about that
Why so? I feel a smidge of sympathy for Joyce because she’s losing something (at least emotionally), but Jacob’s happy with his academic religiosity and doesn’t really feel he’s lost anything.
I got this feeling when they went to church together that he was almost jealous of her passion. He studies religion, but she lives it. And now she’s losing that fire, and he’s sad to see it go, and sad that he never had a flame like that himself.
Jacob’s stance is perfectly valid. But while I’m not religious, I think a big part of it comes down to faith and belief, and viewing the whole thing as a factual, ‘this is what’s different’, stance is kind of losing the core of the matter.
The academic history of it is important, too, but Jacob’s not invested in it the way Joyce was or that Becky is.
I dunno, I read it as more ‘I enjoy learning about religions and this is a recent interest’ than ‘I’m not invested in religion, my faith has become purely academic’. That wouldn’t be that sad to me.
Idk, I think you can still get a lot out of religion on an intellectual/anthropological level. Like “I don’t know if I believe in God, but we’re all here trying to connect to something in this very specific way and that’s really meaningful.” Or finding the rituals/knowledge of continuity comforting.
I once had a conversation with my older brother in which I said to him, “You just don’t believe that objects can be numinous.” (Yes, we are that kind of a family.)
I am not religious and was not raised religiously, but I have had numinous experiences, and they are an important part of me. Organized religion is designed to focus numinous experiences the way that a lens is designed to focus light.
this concept is intensely foreign to my lived experience
That’s a cool family.
Reminds me of a story from my family. I was talking sociology with my father, and I said, “Keeping bullies out of government – keeping cruelty out of government – is a thing that our country has long failed at.”
Instantly my two and a half year old piped up from the back seat, “Bullies are in government.”
I wish to applaud your work as a parent for your child being so astute to our country’s current BS…which also greatly worries me as to how our state of union can be surmised by a toddler while the adults in charge choose willful ignorance.
This might be a case of “takes one to know one”. My three year old regularly points out when people aren’t acting their age. Sometimes he even asks if an adult having a temper tantrum is a “big boy” yet. I love it when they hear him. Sooooo muuuuuuuch.
TLDR: the trumpkin is a toddler, and the toddler KNOWS.
I always try to difference between believe and church. I like the work done by some churches without believing in God.
I think there’s a comic somewhere where Dorothy expressed this by saying she thought about being a universalist but then she’d be more hard.
*hated
I’m confused as to what “academically religious” means anyway. Does that mean Jacob doesn’t actually believe in the religion he was raised with but still studies it or something? I’ve never heard that phrase used before.
I think he means he studies religion, as in reading old texts, comparing and understanding the philosophies taught by different religions, or just learning the history of the religion of your ancestors.
It may also mean that he views himself as religious, in the sense that he accepts as an axiom that God exists, and extrapolates much of his worldview from that axiom. As opposed to feeling God in his heart and following his heart, as Joyce desires to do. Basically, logical religion, as opposed to emotional religion.
So Deism?
Being academically religious isn’t bad. You can find some sort of spirituality in studies about morality and how to be proper gentleman even if you don’t believe in supernatural stuff.
It helps if you change the emphasis on the syllables so that it sounds like “Magically Delicious”
Wow. It’s VERY impressive that she dares to talk about it. To the cute boy she
flirts withhave fun and perfectly wholesome conversations with, no less.I’m so proud of her braving what’s gotta be some killer anxiety to do this.
Honestly, yeah. I want to be worried about what her opening up to Jacob first could mean but, like, I’m just glad she’s opening up to anyone at all about this!
Lots of awesome Joyce moments lately.
It is brave, though there’s some precedent. They’ve discussed theology before, so if there is anyone on campus who is going to know how she feels, it may be him. (Becky obviously would get it, too, but she’s a. occupied, and b. maybe too close to the situation to offer a helpful perspective, not to mention Joyce may find it difficult to talk to her about it)
There is a lot of precedent for Joyce being brave.
It surely is. The great majority of people who feel such doubts never dare to reveal them. Joyce has some mental toughness, and it is very impressive given how her parents smothered doubt, divergence, and dissent.
It really is amazing. I think it shows the amazing degree of self-confidence that Joyce has, and always had.
I don’t think her parents did smother completely doubt, divergence and dissent, though. I mean, they were role models for dissent and divergence, blowing through all those churches looking for the one that matched their beliefs and ideals. There were always hard limits to what Joyce was allowed to question, but as soon as she broke free of those hard limits, she began using the skills she had all along. Her family taught her that she doesn’t have to subscribe to anyone else’s interpretation of the Bible/faith, and that her personal relationship with God mattered more; in fact, for most of this comic it seemed like Joyce’s faith was the source of her mental strenght. And college (specially Jacob) offered a space where she could talk openly about her beliefs, and get to her own conclusions with minimal judgement. To be honest, I think it’s also a sign of her mental strenght that her faith survived all those traumatic experiences for weeks….
Anyway, I think this is one of those cases where the parents raise the kids to think for themselves (but supressing a lot of information) and then are surprised when the kids get to different conclusions (usually in the face of new information). But idk that’s just my nterpretation, and I seem to have many feelings about Joyce’s mental strenght hahaha
yeah this is awesome. glad she has some religious but not fundie friends to talk with
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there is no one on campus, and maybe no one else period, that Joyce feels more comfortable talking about the Bible with than Jacob. And however their relationship turns out, that’s way more important to her than his smouldering hotness.
In the long run, definitely.
In the short run, though, smouldering hotness.
My non-falsifiable headcanon is that by their junior year, Joyce and Jacob will be dating exclusively. (It’s non-falsifiable because by that time Willis’s hypothetical great-grandkids will be doing the comic and I will be long dead.)
Will they eventually mutually throw their bodies into the cragged shame pits of the lustwolves? I sure hope so, but even my headcanon doesn’t give this a better than 50/50 chance of happening during their junior year. (If they’re still together by the senior year, definitely banging.)
I’d give a much higher and earlier chance than that. Joyce is horny and I think Jacob’s style would lead to her seducing him pretty quickly, while someone who was actually trying to seduce her would provoke resistance.
though, the cragged shame pits of the lustwolves
I really really hope Dorothy turns that line on Joyce (followed by a quick reminder that it’s in jest and Dot supports Joyce as long as she’s being safe and healthy).
the short run is 1% rationality and 99% cognitive biases.
the long run is 1% cognitive biases and 99% unintended consequences. the cognitive bias, of course, is everybody’s dear friend: confirmation bias.
All of my Bar mitzvah money went into either my savings or into comics and DVDs. You’re fine, Ethan.
Provided you did your mitzvah project.
You…did do your mitzvah project, right?
That’s a thing? Huh, TIL.
Of course now I’m picturing baby Ethan being told he has thirteen years to build a shoebox diorama of the Battle of Little Bighorn. Flash forward to his party, the rabbi asks for it. Ethan pulls his version of the shocked Joyce face red panel.
Calvin forgets his insect collection
and then tries to pass off his diorama of the Battle of Iacon as totally that.
I used to talk to God all the time and sometimes he feels very distant. I try and use that as an inspiration to work harder on maintaining my human relationships.
Famously, Mother Theresa wrote in her letters she struggled to feel the same level of connection to God she did as a teenager. She always felt it was a personal failing she couldn’t as an adult. It terrified her she was failing her religion.
Mother Theresa was more of a turd than most people care to admit, but that’s a pretty common thing – I’ve seen a lot of people talk about how it was easier to have that sort of passion and faith when they were younger.
In Bill Plotkin’s human development model, and possibly other ones as well, this totally makes sense. Late adolescence is the time of exploring the mysteries, turning inward, and for anyone with a connection to a spiritual tradition, it would include that. Through that exploration we find our purpose and then adulthood is about putting that purpose into practice. It isn’t as mystical. Interesting to see this show up here.
I definitely enjoyed more of religious/ethical discussion when I was a few years younger. Nowadays a lot of philosophy stuff feels like navel gazing – not all of it, for sure, but a lot of it feels like a lot of talk without saying anything.
I don’t think I’ve ever really been a believer. I don’t necessarily know there’s not some sort of higher power, but for now I’m on ‘verdict unproven, but signs heavily point to no’. Granted, my religious experience is basically two weeks at a cult-run art camp, a couple of masses at my high school Catholic school, praying with my mom once for my teacher to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby, and one day hanging out at my friend’s church playgroup where nothing really religious even happened that I recall. So, y’know, never been a big part of my life either. But even aside from all the logistical issues in the Bible, I don’t believe in the possibility of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent God. In order for evil to exist, one of those things has to not be true.
I’m one of those people who follows the Dali Lama’s statement that Buddhism vs. Science should always give way to Science when something is proven to be true but that Buddhism is the quest for higher truth morally and spiritually so it can’t be disproven because it’s the process not the end goal.
I do think, though with the omnipotent, omniscient, and good Good that the former will make the latter seem alien to anyone not of those two. I find it much easier to believe in a Good God who is alien in his goodness than personal.
Sure, but that’s not the kind of philosophizing I’m talking about. That statement says something. 😛
I can’t believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and good God though. In order for evil to exist, one of those can’t be true. If evil is happening and he’s present, can do something and is good, he must not know about it. If he knows about it, is present and is all good, he must not be able to intervene. If he knows about it, can do something about it, and is all good, he can’t be present. If he knows about it, can do something about it, and is present and does nothing, then God is not good.
I’m with you on this one BBCC. Saying “God has a different definition of good” always felt a bit of a cop out; it’s taking “God is all-knowing, -powerful and-good” as an axiom (all-present is derived from all-knowing and all-powerful) and then defining “good” to fit that axiom. In effect, it changes the question from “is God good?” to what “what even is good?”.
Funnily enough I was a staunch atheist in my teens and have only started to “look inwards” for the last 1.5 years or so.
One of my Rationalist friends talked about Christopher Hitchens unintentionally screwed up his take-down piece on Mother Theresa (he also was the Devil’s Advocate by the Vatican against her Sainthood). Basically, my rationalist friend was like, “Hitchen’s talk about Theresa’s work for the poor was shoddy and mismanaged comes off as less than good optics for disblievers like me when he flies a private jet to a free hospital and food kitchens to complain about the service then leaves the same way.”
Priorities, Ethan !
He has them.
dinobot was probably the best character on that show to be fair.
Meh, he’s not even in my top five.
(and happy birthday, Davil M Willis. Possibly a bit late)
goshdangit that was the worse moment to make a typo
As always, it could be worse.
At least you didn’t wish him a harpy birthday.
Or derpy.
I’m gonna dig a hole and hide now
Oh, dear. This is what I was worried about yesterday.
I’m worried that Raidah will pop up tomorrow.
Before Jacob has a chance to comfort her? Bite your tongue.
Ooh, maybe Raidah will say something for her invisible scoreboard, prompting a cascade of events that leads to her and Jacob breaking up.
Part of me wants that to happen. We’ll see.
Oh lord that’s right, MP Dinobot CAME OUT BEFORE THESE GUYS STARTED COLLEGE NOW.
Damn you sliding timescale!
I know, right? The Transformers comics on Ethan and Amber’s pull lists are from the future now.
*”Star Collector” finally hits the drum solo part of the coda on the hacked Muzak*
Though shall not make poor financial choices is the little known 11th commandment
Seeing as Ethan is Jewish, maybe the 614th mitzvot?
…. does poor financial choices include running up credit card debt in order to give lots of money to a megachurch televangelist so that he can buy his own private jet and parade around on stage in thousand-dollar-plus sneakers? Because I’ve heard mixed messaging about that one.
Praise be Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption!
Cause Jesus, he knows me
Not to be sacrilegious or anything, but if God ISN’T okay with Ethan’s Dinobot interests, is He really worth worshipping?
(All seriousness though, major points to Joyce for talking about this now, instead of waiting several years to ever bring it up with anyone. Now quickly–someone give her a big hug.)
IKR? You see a Swoop that still has all its chrome, you gotta move on it.
My Jewish upbringing didn’t go quite far enough for me to be able to answer this, but I do know that all of life’s questions can be answered by out-of-context and not-completely-verbatim Woody Allen quotes.
So: “What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my Dinobot.”
…. that might be less Jewish upbringing, and more upbringing by my Jewish mother.
That depends, are the Jewish God and Primus the same?
Are Unicron and Satan one in the same?
Ethan’s god is pretty much Willis, so yes, god in this context is very understanding and sympathetic to spending lots of money on transformers.
Remember God -made- dinobots.
. . . Oh dear I know exactly what Joyce is going through right now as I asked that exact question. Only. . . I never felt them answer back. Made me so jealous of other people for HAVING that faith in a higher being. Because. . . Faith is a wonderous thing, to know that there is something after death, that someone no matter how distant is looking upon you with love or honest to god respect. But. . . .I don’t have faith. I have never had that innate quality. No matter how hard I tried.
I know that I probably ain’t making any sense there.
Makes sense to me and there’s nothing wrong with you.
yup, makes a lot of sense. faith can be a useful thing at times, and it’s not really an option for me. sometimes I can get enough equanimity to have a similar effect, though.
It does make sense to me.
I’m actually scared by the thought of something being there after death. Well, not generally, but by every image of the afterlife that involves eternity. I mean, after having been there for 50 trillion years, you still have 99,9999% to go. And you have no way to escape that because you already are dead. I don’t understand why people find that comforting. For me, it feels like a very cruel and creative way to torture someone. Eventually, this must become really boring.
I think Faith is a choice not a thing you either have or have not. You’re not doing it wrong if it’s hard and you question.
For me, faith feels a bit like trying to believe that I can really fly if I flap my arms hard enough. I haven’t been able to choose to believe that in a long time.
OTOH, equanimity feels more like “it’s okay that things aren’t okay”, and doesn’t rely on anything being true or untrue. Somehow I feel more at peace with not having any expectations of anything actually working out. There’s nothing for anxiety to get its hooks into, maybe. Or maybe it’s because I know that my brain hates uncertainty and needs to become more used to it instead of looking for ways to make things be Right. When I look at it that way, maybe my brain would have just used faith as a crutch if it could, and let perfectionism keep running the show for longer.
Then again, sometimes I *can* choose to have faith in small things for short amounts of time, really small things like “the bus will show up on time”. I’d forgotten about that 🙂
I’m with you on everything except faith being a wonderful thing.
Faith is like a recreational drug. It FEELS good, but very often it’s bad for you and the people around you.
In a way it depends on how the faith manifests, but in a way it doesn’t. To expand on the simile I’ll compare it to alcohol.
What kind of drunk are you? Does being drunk make you feel good, or does it make you feel depressed? Are you a happy convivial drunk or a bitter angry drunk? Do you laugh and bond with people over drinks and become generous about paying for their meals? Do you yell and scream at them? Do you feel inhibitions slip away and do things you wouldn’t otherwise? Are these good things that you struggle to find the courage to do while sober, or are they bad things that your morals won’t permit while sober? Do you spend wildly on unwise impulses when drunk? Do you get behind the wheel and get into the dumbest car accident ever? Do you engage in or forgo various acts harmful to your health when drunk? The answers vary from person to person and situation to situation. (It probably won’t tell you that you’re bound for paradise and leave you sobbing about your sibling who’s bound for hell, though. That’s more of a bad acid trip.)
What does faith make people do? For some people it feels good, but for others it’s depressing. It makes some people more convivial and generous and others bitter and hateful. It can lead people to commit acts of charity and love, and it can lead people to commit acts of terrorism and atrocity. It can give you courage or leave you cowering in fear of phantasms. It can help you keep going or it can lead you to commit suicide. It can ruin you financially or inspire frugality, depending on how you behave under its influence. It can cause you to love the people around you all the more, or it can turn you into a terror in their lives or lead you to cut them out entirely. It can cause you to treat your body like a temple, or it can cause you to forgo meds and drink poison. And yes, it can get you into car accidents.
And as with alcohol, partaking of it is fine if it’s not causing you or the people around you problems, but if you’re relying on it to make you feel good or as the only way to be your best self then you don’t actually feel good and you’re not your best self and it would be best if you found ways to feel and be those things with or without it.
(Of course there’s also the question of whether the doctrines are true, but that’s a separate matter entirely.)
TLDR: Religion (like money) amplifies how people are.
Given human nature, this is often a bad thing.
In addition, religion (like alcohol) often makes people somewhat less smart / wise / competent.
Thinking further, I think the first one may be true of all religion, but the second one may not. Believing in magic and external locus of control is generally problematic, so I’m suspicious of anything monotheistic. (Though I’ve often been impressed when I’ve talked with Jews about their religious beliefs.)
Hmm. Now I’m thinking about mysticism vs. magic. The Jews I’ve talked with seem to have a lot more room for mysticism than the Christians I know with comparably strong beliefs. Strong Christians seem to go for dogma, and to see their God as more magical than numinous. Unprogrammed Quakers are awesome (a very mystical tradition, in a very down-to-earth way).
So yeah, I guess it’s dogma and external locus of control that make you stupid, not religion per se.
As far as amplifying how you are – many religions help you rationalize about yourself (some actively encourage hypocrisy – American Fundies typically suck!) Many help you cultivate what you value in yourself. I don’d know if there’s any religion that does neither of those.
I’d also point to the lack of verifiability as a way that faith can make people stupid. It’s not just that there’s dogma, but that the dogma has no reality check whatsoever. It’s the fact that unlike, say, homeopathy, a doctrine like eternal punishment for being gay has no empirical falsification criteria.
And while it would be an unusual religion that doesn’t help some people rationalize some things about themselves, other people in the same religion have aspects of themselves denigrated and are forced to fight and deny those aspects or view themselves as evil. Again, gay people caught up in conservative Christianity is a good example.
It’s not just “amplifies how people are” though. That might apply to becoming religious as an adult, since you’re likely to gravitate to a faith that you’re already sympathetic too, but being raised in a faith does an awful lot to shape who you are, not just amplify it.
And it’s often a huge struggle to break away from that, if you ever really do. Witness this entire comic for examples.:)
I am looking forward to finding out a bit more about Jacob. I really love him as a character, even if for the longest time, I kept calling him Duncan. I don’t know -why-, but it was like he was mislabeled in my brain.
That’s how my brain works too… I will often misremember a name like Eric as Adam because they are SO similar (4 letter masculine name, pattern: vowel, consonant, vowel, consonant). I don’t remember names well, but I do remember patterns well.
Oh, Joyce, honey. It’ll be okay.
I relate to Jacob – religion doesn’t do much for me, but I like to learn about it. obviously Jacob’s getting something out of church but I still relate to liking to learn about it.
And pfft, oh Ethan, of course you did. I think it’s interesting how he goes to Temple in this ‘verse, where his whole family was ‘more ethnically/culturally Jewish’ in Walkyverse. So, not being Jewish myself – is there something else he should’ve spent that money on?
Not Jewish myself, but it might just be a “should’ve saved that money instead of blowing it on a toy” thing. 😛
And re: Temple: it might be important to remember the age difference between Walkyverse and here? Ethan (and even his family as a whole) could easily shift away from being more religious in the next 5-10 years in-universe*.
*(Meaning that might start to happen when the heat-death of the universe is upon us in real time, of course. 😛 )
I’m only a half-er on my dad’s side, and thus did not get bat mitzvah’d, but the gist is that you’re supposed to devote the bulk of it to savings/”your education.”
It’s not that unusual for someone to have a bar mitzvah but not otherwise go to shul/temple on a regular basis-honestly it’s probably the norm among reform types which Ethan is. It certainly was very common when I was growing up.
Is Mitzvah money supposed to be spent on something particular?
A friend of mine said that his father expected him to spend his on something manly (and had spent his on a hooker). My friend spent it on Star Wars DVDs.
I think Ethan chose wisely.
He spent his on a hooker at 13?? I question the veracity of this dad’s story
This is my friend’s story and apparently part of being a man but take it with a grain of, “I really hope that didn’t happen in real life.”
I would take that as whether or not it is how the father actually spent his money, he was more trying to instill a specific version of masculinity
Joyce, it was never Dog answering you.
It was always the schizophrenia.
I am weird in that I’m reminded of Dog/God from Fallout/New Vegas.
Any god who loves you and wants you to be happy would be cool with you buying a Dinobot
I dunno. Dinobot hates democracy and yet voted Desanto.
God loves G1, we all know it.
Maybe He’s cool with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.
https://imgur.com/a/62ipnC5
I drew Bad Joyce.
That’s wonderful beyond words.
Haha. It’s great. That’s exactly what Joyce would think she’d say.
Aww yeah, Bad Joyce knows how to party!
(Also I just really, really love the way you drew Jacob- his expression and words coupled with the fact that it’s Joyce fantasizing about him works perfectly!)
On a non-religious sort of thing but Jacob is now how I mentally think Miles Morales will look as an adult. In part because of how funny a bulky Spiderman would be (and Jacob’s T-shirt).
Handholding? Wow, I didn’t think Joyce would be into such lewd stuff.
Joyce’s situation reminds me of when I passed out once as a teen and didn’t recall seeing Heaven, putting me through a crisis of faith.
I died several times while growing up on seizures.
It left me with mixed feelings.
If you were allowed to remember heaven it wouldn’t require any faith, would it?
Mind you, plenty of people believe they have visited heaven.
Some were just dreaming.
That’s awful I’m sorry.
And the thought *did* cross my mind that people who saw the afterlife when unconscious could have dreamt it. I’m terrible at remembering dreams myself.
Faith is tough. Sometimes it feels like talking to a wall, especially when media dramatizes it so much with “Come to Jesus” moments.
I take comfort in knowing that He is there and that there is an afterlife (which isn’t really much of anything like what modern interpretations make it out to be, damn you media!) and that all the struggles that I face, while meaningful and meant to build Me, are not ever-lasting.
Some feel that means that the good is meaningless in that case, but the good is worth it simply because it could help Others, even if they don’t believe in what you do.
The problem with modern religious practices however, is that people believe that by simply reading/preaching the good book, that puts them above others and leads to abuse of power. My own Catholic Church is now and has been a cess-pit of this, and it can be incredibly disheartening to hear the news and realize that the foundation that gave you this faith is being abused to abuse others.
Sorry for that, Joyce’s expression got to me.
In answer to the question of the comic: Yes, God is SUPPOSED to talk back. I mean different denominations and individual interpretations of Christianity will differ on this (and every other) question regarding whether God is supposed to talk back to anyone praying to him, but at its root the only basis for belief in Christianity that I’ve ever heard presented is the idea that God communicates through revelation to some people, be those people it everyone, or just whatever-you-call-your-priests, or just a few special people like saints and prophets and disciples and people who wrote down the Bible.
And if you’re starting to think that maybe you only THOUGHT he was communicating to someone (such as yourself), then that pulls the entire rest of Christianity into question. You start asking questions like whether John the Revelator’s dream or Paul’s Road-to-Damascus vision were really revelation from God or not.
There’s some fascinating studies on meditation and religious states that I’ve read about. Basically where scientists study the brains of nuns while in deep prayer as well as Tibetan monks.
The “religious rapture state” being something that exists (but is more often claimed than done).
But how do you go from “focused thoughts in a religious context lead to an altered state of mind” to “there’s a god and a heaven and hell and sacrificial redemption and so forth” without relying on faith in specific purported revelations? The science only says the first. How do you get from Point A to Point B?
I’m not trying to tackle that issue which is a far larger one. But I suppose that’s a matter of…faith.
:rimshot:
:is pelted with vegetables:
But that’s exactly the question I was talking about originally when you posted your response…
Mind you, “hearing God” isn’t the only source for religion in a lot of places. One of the coolest things I ever investigated was the Catholic Miracle board and their investigator. The people who investigate miracles across the world and determine if there’s scientific reasons for healings, strange phenomenon, or so on. It’s a vital part of the Saint Process.
It’s either a really misguided act or something surprisingly testable.
Looking for an example here, both of Agnes Gonxha’s (aka Mother and now Saint Teresa’s) two miracles cited for the Church’s canonization of her were the recovery of people from medical conditions while under the care of medical professionals. One involved the remission of a cancer, an event which occurs somewhat often, if unpredictably. The patient was also being treated by drugs when this occurred, and both her doctors and husband thought the treatments were the cause of her recovery.
The Catholic investigators looking to certify miracles waived their 5-year wait period and quickly certified that this must be miraculous intercession on the part of Mother Teresa on no other grounds that the patient and touched than that medicine couldn’t explain it… despite there being easy medical explanation at hand for the cancer’s remission, despite even if we believe in supernatural causation there would have been a host of other potential miraculous causes than the intervention of Teresa’s shade, and despite the fact that “we don’t presently understand how it happen” not automatically meaning “therefore God” as a matter of principle. Beyond the potential of the Vatican’s certification process to expose superficial frauds, there’s very little testable about any of it.
(BTW, all of this helped white-washed Teresa’s very skeevy legacy in the actual “medical” care she provided, to say nothing of her spotty ethics in fundraising. The certification of her miracles and her subsequent canonization were also good PR for the Church in the midst of a couple decades of bad PR and the Church is likely to go on touting, and cashing in on, Teresa for the next umpteen million years.)
If it’s a choice between really misguided act or something surprisingly testable, I’d lean towards really misguided act. Since it’s not a choice between just those two options, I’m leaning towards something well south of “misguided”.
In the end, believing the certification of miracles requires believing the priests who certify them and believing in the certification process that they used to certify them, a process that in its conception leans heavily on both prayer and the Catholic Church’s supposed status as a mouthpiece for God. So, yes, it does come down to hearing God, and questioning whether specifically the Catholic priesthood hears God calls all the Catholic miracle stuff into question as well.
I did a bit of study on this in grad school. Basically, its a change in prominence of certain brainwaves (they can be measured by EEG), coupled in a change in heart rate variability (yeah, hart rate is not consistent. It varies in a certain cycle, and the frequency of that cycle can change). Praying, meditation, and “mindfulness” all are trying to tap into this altered brain state. It does take practice. I was meditating on a regular basis back then, but I was a novice, and only got into that relaxed state a few times.
“Without relying on faith” that’s kind of the point, you DO rely on faith. Faith is belief without evidence. Since most religious assertions are unprovable, faith is required for religion to function.
Tie that in with studies on certain hallucinogenics and on various shamanic practices and it’s pretty clear that the state is real and has profound effects on people who experience it. Enough that many ancient cultures developed techniques for reaching it.
Whether that says anything about the actual existence of something real behind the experiences or just about the nature of our own brains is an open question. That the experiences are very similar between cultures, but the conclusions drawn from seem to be filtered through cultural expectations strongly suggests that even if there is something real behind them, it’s not evidence for any one religion.
I don’t think that even Luther, who kinda started the whole ‘people don’t need a priest to pray or translate god’s intent for them’, though that it would feel like talking with a actual person or ‘hearing his voice in your head’.
I think mysticism is great but I think its less important than the choice to be good and believe.
Religion can’t be all Right Brain or Left Brain.
And I think the choice to be good is more important the one to believe.
*bends over with wheezing laughter*
Miles Morales shirt!!!
So, Joyce’s dream DID come back to mind.
I think that the dream reflected her growing doubts rather than the other way around.
I remember praying and wanting to feel that my prayers helped others, but most importantly I wanted to feel if I was a good person. I am still insecure to this day, but I stopped praying. I am not religious and I don’t believe in anything divine, but I still have hopes for the future. However, even with hopes and dreams as guidance, there’s still this existential pain about not having answers and tat you have to seek answers by yourself. Religion may not bring me the peace I seek, but I won’t accept nihilism.
Also, yes, my younger self was selfish for thinking more about personal salvation over other people.
Well that Dinobot is a neat toy so god don’t mind. It coo’.
Joyce, seriously, the ones to whom God audibly talks back? They’re the ones with big roles and big burdens. You probably don’t want to be in that category.
It’s enough to be sure that He’s listening and to be aware enough of events to see His response in your life; Becky has seen that and I suspect that you will too if you rid yourself of your preconceptions.
Like Ethan doesn’t pray to Primus.
Now, is it me or, in panel 5, is Jacob desperately trying to think of a way to make Joyce’s sadness go away?
I love how Ethan can take a crisis of faith and segue into Transformers.
I can empathize, as someone who’s gone through a similar crisis of faith. You can’t just tell someone to have faith, because the fundamentalist idea is that if you had faith, you would hear God. You can’t just tell someone to pick up a less fundamentalist view of Christianity, because how do you determine which version is true? How do you separate a choice of faith from a choice of ego?
Some people determine that these questions aren’t as important as loving and helping people, and it’s here where you find the social justice churches. If Joyce was to keep her faith, I think that would be a good home for her. I think she will lose her faith though. Either way, interacting with the parents will be a challenge.
If he was a Christian he’d probably reply to “Would you like to talk about Lord and Saviour?” with “Primus/Optimus Prime? Gladly! Which iteration?”
I’m a little sad that we’re only hearing Ethan talk about any sort of religious-related stuff now that it’s in-comic October. Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are BOTH past by then, and I’ve been wondering for ages whether he went over to Hillel for the High Holidays or not. 🙁
Guess who put the wrong email address earlier today! Sorry about that.
I’m a little sad that we’re only hearing Ethan talk about any sort of religious-related stuff now that it’s in-comic October. Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are BOTH past by then, and I’ve been wondering for ages whether he went over to Hillel for the High Holidays or not. 🙁
I strongly suspect that Ethan’s religious status is: “Very, very lapsed.”
I figured as well, but I also can’t figure what the heck “recitations” could possibly be here that wouldn’t also make it REALLY, REALLY WEIRD that he skipped the holidays that every synagogue I’ve known has to triple their seating space for in order to fit all the people who never go to temple otherwise. At the very least I’d think he’d show up for a post-service Hillel barbecue or the break-fast or something.
Like, does he mean the morning/evening Sh’ma? Is he washing his hands and saying blessings before meals? Birkat hamazon after meals? Does he light candles Friday nights and say a little Shabbat blessing, or sniff some cinnamon and plunge a huge multi-wicked candle into wine at the end of Saturday? Is he just really into singing Adon Olam to funny tunes? I GOTTA KNOW WILLIS, DON’T LEAVE ME HANGING!!
If he’s like his original universe self then he doesn’t really practice anything and identifies more as jewish out of spite for those that tried to wipe them out than out of any actual faith.
Sure, but Ethan didn’t go to temple and talk about doing his recitations in the Walkyverse.
Nobody asked in the Walkyverse.
No, but doing recitations sounds more religious than something someone who considered themselves a secular Jewish person would do. I may be wrong on that though, I’m not Jewish.
I mean, this isn’t to say that he couldn’t have skipped the high holidays since no one’s forcing him to now, plenty of people lapse once their parents aren’t making them go to shul, but Ethan talked about recitations in the present tense and ktm2;l,f’3′,.g I just don’t get what “recitation” means??? I’ve heard blessing and bracha and prayer or just the name of specific prayer but no Jew of any denomination I’ve ever met has used “recitations” and I don’t know what to make of it! Which is unreasonable of me!! But here I am regardless, being unreasonable!!!
I talk about lots things in the present tense that I haven’t done in years, but that were a regular habit before I moved away from home, say. (Implying that I would do these things again if I moved back home, and possibly was younger again, which of course can’t happen.)
Maybe it’s that kind of thing?
Ethan hasn’t given any indication of religious activity at any other point, so I don’t think it’s something he does regularly *now*.
This strip tells a different story.
At the risk of sounding like an arrogant prick, I don’t think the struggle to define to oneself what being a Jew means can be compared on a 1:1 basis to deciding if you still count yourself a believing Christian. Being part of a religious and ethnic minority changes the context, for starters, and the ways Judaism is practiced, the pieces of practice to sort through and the different ways we implement them, the…I don’t know how to finish all this honestly. I have a lot of thoughts and they’re thoughts that are unfair of me to project onto Ethan, but in the few times it’s come up in the strip there’s been enough that’s hauntingly familar in how he approaches being a Jew for me not to start wondering about the fine details.
At my college we got a survey freshmen year that asked us about religious affiliation and I was amused to see that under the Judaism section, in addition to all your usual groups like Orthodox and Reformed and such, there was also a box marked “just Jewish”. I imagine that would have been what Ethan would have checked.
I relate to this so much. When I was going to Church everyone would talk about how they could feel God when they prayed but I never could. Being totally neurotic I assumed something was wrong with me and God didn’t want to waste time on me.
Nowadays I’m fairly Agnostic but I do still occasionally Pray.
After enough years of God very specifically not talking to me I decided to cut out the middle man and deal with people as they asked (or forced me).
You’re fine as you are. God doesn’t need to talk to you.
Is Ethan observant, or does he just mean when he’s at like, holidays with family and has to pray? Then again all of them are freshmen, the idea of them getting to be not observant if their parents are is… very very new
I knew a guy who’d brag about hearing the voice of god, I flat out told him he’s either just aggrandizing his own conscience or is crazy. The third option I didn’t tell him is that he thinks other people are stupid enough to do what he says if he tells them god said to do it but that crossed my threshhold of confrontation and he wasn’t worth that kind of effort.
Money well spent; I am sure God will understand.
If being a man doesn’t mean you have the freedom to spend your money as you please, then what’s even the point of having a Bar Mitzvah?
Ethan? Not helping.
Just think, in a few years when everyone reads this comic, people will just assume he’s talking about the Masterpiece figure.
I don’t see the problem here. God is just like me. Except even better.