She used the last of the yellow up. That’s why her top’s sort of washed out, it’s like the printer was low on ink.
Ruth is upset because there’s an angry mob of Spongebob fans protesting outside the dorm, because thanks to Billie he has to be puce now. They were already mad after the Superbowl, this is the last straw.
Most people confuse purple (which is more reddish) with violet (which is more bluish) anyway [>>], so some wearers of such shades may intentionally be testing the boundaries of that law.
After all, you know how youths can be..
Drinking, fighting, roller derbying, chicken nugget eating, using up all the yellow, colorfully testing boundaries..
Everybody knows that purple isn’t a real colour anyway… 😛 (Thumbs nose at non-spectral colours) xD
Oddly, I’ve also known people to confuse violet with indigo, thinking both are shades of purple. The lack of education in schools about colours astounds me. What DO they teach these kids nowadays, anyhow?
What they should *really* do is sit them all down in front of a TV and make them watch the original 80s Rainbow Brite! ^^
But drugs aren’t magic. If you are lucky, they work, and if you are even luckier, the side effects are in an acceptable limit.
What is Billie thinking?! That Ruth’s goal is to get better SO she can drink again?! Psychological healing takes an incredible amount of time and energy. If Billie doesn’t get it, she will be a bad influence – an enabler, to quote someone from yesterday – for Ruth and Ruth would be better off without her. So far, Ruth is holding her ground,though.
Well yeah, that’s pretty much what Billie thinks.
Ruth’s problem is the depression. Cure that and she’ll be able to drink again. Why not? It’s not like the alcohol itself could be an issue.
Thinking like that might lead to wondering about her own drinking and she knows that’s not a problem.
The problem here is that Billie is thinking of Ruth’s medication in terms of a cure. It’s not a cure. It’s a treatment. And the problem with the English language in general is that a lot of people don’t make a distinction between treatments and cures.
Cures get rid of whatever the problem is. Treatments…well, they treat the problem (or maybe just its symptoms), but don’t actually get rid of the (underlying) problem itself, which may or may not get better in time on its own.
Taking antibiotics for a bacterial infection will cure it in a week or two. Taking cough/cold mixture is a treatment for the cold’s symptoms, but the cold will get better all on its own in a week or so. Treating my autoimmune disease will not get rid of it (but can lessen symptoms), and it likely will never get better on its own either. And Billie hasn’t grasped that Ruth’s depression (and alcoholism) is most similar to this type of illness.
This is actually a solid representation of how many people with addiction issues think. They’re used to viewing problems as obstacles to overcome or figure out the trick to, so they can get back to what matters most, and they’re of losing relationships that gave them permission to continue engaging in addictive behavior. Ruth is actually adjusting to her reality with impressive quickness, though everyone moves at their own pace. (I’m a professional in the field, and am pretty impressed by the presentation of this storyline.)
My parents leave a cooler in their car with tequila, salt, and limes in it so they can go out to their car periodically to do shots. Much cheaper than the drinks inside the parks.
All the people I’ve known who’ve done that with margarita-style drinks were Texans (which is a bit intuitive, given the nature of the drink), and it was a common enough thing that noone batted an eye over it. I wonder if other states have similar beverages they favor, or if they just default to beers and beer coolers alone?
So first Billie basically says “I’m ashamed of you and don’t want the new people I know to know I’m with you”, now Billie seems to be leaning towards “I would rather be able to drink than be with you”
I think that’s probably oversimplifying it, but it is true that she has to face the realities of their relationship, and make the decision of if she is in or if she is out.
Hey, if you gotta break up with someone, break up with them while doing the thing you love to do the most together. End the relationship on a high note.
Reminds me of Judy Collins’s songbook, that she interspersed with passages about her life. Every passage except the childhood ones mention what she or the people around her were drinking.
But…what if Montreal is farther away – which would be the case for me?
I’d actually LOVE to go visit Montreal rather than Paris, not that I ever was in Paris per se, but I saw Cannes and Nice, and I’d somehow prefer visiting another yet another country on the other side of the Atlantic than simply staying in Europe.
I’ve been fortunate enough to visit both, and I like both. I did Montreal in November, stayed in a charming B&B, and loved walking the city Streets. Paris I was in just after New Years, and my wife and I hit every cafe and patisserie we could.
I’m headed to Stutgartt in a couple of weeks for work, hopefully I’ll have time to see (and eat) something cool.
I never get drinking. Like, alcohol tastes like medicine. Even the tastiest alcoholic drinks would be fine without alcohol. Besides if I get drunk I’ll just make an ass out of myself. Like…maybe I’m in the minority but I can’t imagine getting super drunk and like…having a perfectly fun time and not hurting myself or others. Y’know, inhibitions help with the whole “being a nice person and also not breaking your legs thing”. And I ain’t got a lotta friends or legs as it stands (and as I stand since I currently still have legs)
I drink very little. Can’t stand beer or liquor, it has to be something like cider or a frou-frou drink that’s 80% sugar, and even then I’ll just have one, and I’m happy with zero.
I can’t stand the taste of beer, so the rare times when I drink I usually go with wine coolers and similar fruity-tasting alcoholic drinks. Even then I usually don’t drink more than a bottle or two. I’ve found that I tend to be a happy drunk. If I got mean and nasty when drunk I probably would avoid drinking entirely.
To me, ethanol is something you buy at 220 proof, and then place drilled chunks of human bone into it for short-term preservation. Not as effective as formaldehyde, but it’s also not as hazardous to work with.
Fun fact: after the bone sample has been in the ethanol for a while, the liquid takes on a slight yellow tint. Doesn’t look very appetizing, to say the least.
IIRC, Proof is 50% of the alcohol % in the distillate. Although you can get 200 proof/100% pure alcohol (Grain for ethanol), it evaporates heavily at room temperature. 196 proof (98% pure) is the highest stable distillate. I don’t think it’s possible to have 110% alcohol (or Spirit, enthusiasm or “being able to give.”).
Booze better than 200 proof exists only in fantasy games. (It’s called “Boink” and it’s named after the sound your face makes hitting the counter top.)
I’m avoiding it (largely due to being on antidepressants since I could legally drink) but have tasted wine and found it to resemble expired grape juice. Tried champagne once, fermented grape juice.
There are some people that really like the taste of alcohol. I agree with you, but I also hate coffee, and plenty of people like that. It’s a personal taste thing
I thought no one liked the taste of coffee and people only consumed it for the magical ability to fill you with life in the morning. As someone unaffected by caffeine I still don’t understand.
My uncle gave my youngest cousin (who was somewhere in the 4-6 range iirc) a sip of his beer once, because he figured his kid would be grossed out and not ask to have his dad’s drink anymore. Cousin took a big sip and asked for his own.
I’m from a family of alcoholics and literally have had like one beer in my entire life which I sipped the entire time. However, I don’t judge people who are able to manage it as my closest friend loved drinking as a social activity and never let it dominate his life.
Ive also only had beer once. My brother knows I don’t drink (and that it’s not because I had to go sober) and when we were out once he was like ‘hey I got a fancy beer just have a sip’ and I did and was like ‘that’s… tolerable’ and that’s when he really got that it’s not my thing.
I have friends who say MmM aLcOhOl when pouring the drinks and getting drunk, but will be honest and say that sake and vodka are actually nasty when we’re chatting about alcohol online and they’re sober, at like, 3 AM. They make these disgusting mixed drinks (no amount of grenadine can cover the taste of vodquila), because they don’t know any better. Whatever gets them drunkest, fastest, to enable them to get rid of inhibitions that cause social anxiety for them. It’s a two for the price of one kind of problem – some of them don’t believe that there’s any way for them to function socially except drunk, which feels like an unaddressed concern because of how much more they’ve needed to drink and how often they get smashed in the process.
And then there are people who actually like alcohol. Or at least some alcohols.
Beer and wine taste disgusting to me, but I’ll happily sip a shot of good vodka – and then stop and not even get drunk, so it’s not just about getting smashed fast.
Other friends really like Scotch, which I’m not fond enough of to pay the ridiculous price for the good stuff.
See I am the opposite. I like beer and wine, and don’t touch the hard stuff. Hard stuff gets me too drunk too quick and it burns.
ALSO the rule someone else suggested about never drinking when you’re feeling bad is words to live by, especially if you know you have addictive tendencies (hi).
I don’t like most alcohol -and- I don’t like being drunk. I spend three quarters of the time in recursive self-analysis of my drunken state, and the other quarter doing bad John Wayne impersonations.
I never got it either. I’ve had tastes of alcohol (eg liqueurs for recipes, homemade irish cream, etc), and drank champagne at a couple weddings, but drinking for fun never seemed like it would actually be fun, so I never did. Then I also realized my mom’s an alcoholic and I started taking meds that can’t go with alcohol and married someone who’s had some really upsetting things wrt alcohol happen with his family/friends, so I was like cool, almost all the pressure is gone. The only thing that ever makes me want to drink is taste curiousity.
(hopefully obviously, all this is seperate from the comic, I get why Billie and Ruth drink and that they’re alcoholics)
yeah, alcohol never caught on for me either. usually, it gets me sleepy or grumpy, and as for social inhibitions: it takes away the feeling of “oh shit i want to belong, how can i not be awkward?!?“ and replaces it with “naah… whatever, i don’t care about people“. The most fun i have while slightly drunk (i never get more than slightly drunk because when i’m a little drunk, i lose interest in drinking more because i already feel woozy) is when i’m by myself and building stuff. Once i built a shelf and just kept laughing at myself for being clumsy and dropping the screw driver all the time. or walking around being clumsy. it’s fun. but not enough fun and so antisocial that i really have no incentive to drink. hot spiced wine in winter is a yummy thing, but sometimes i just make non-alcoholic ones because it’s just as nice. Soo… really not m drug! 😀
. . . So I never really thought this but why the hell is Billie so into getting drunk and drinking alcohol? I’ve been drinking since I was a little kid, parents let me try their drinks so that I wouldn’t be curious, and today I can barely drink a single fruity drink once a week and can’t stand the taste of any kind of beer.
Guessing we’re going to find out, and it’s not going to be anything great. Most we really know about her past is that she’s been an alcoholic since highschool, that her parents, or at least her dad, are very distant, and that she has issues with defining herself as a person, seemingly.
Also Billie seems like someone who peaked in high school and iis also kind of a narcissist who really isn’t that great at understanding the needs of others.
She’s been out of highschool less than a calendar year, so I think it’s less that she peaked there already, and more like she is aware of the danger she may have.
Also, that highschool wasn’t as big a high for her as she had thought, as being confronted with the reality by Alice implies.
Billie has these things that she wants to get rid of. They’re annoying always holding her back. They’re called Inhibitions and her bra and it seems that Alcohol helps her get rid of both of those.
We don’t know why she started to drink but we know why she does now: she is an alcoholic. She uses the depression juice for temporary relief from the brain thoughts that make her feel bad. I’ve never gotten into alcohol (tastes like burning and poison to me whereas ironically, poisons may have less taste than that) but, for people with neglectful parents like Billie, it allows them to pretend things are okay for a while when they are absolutely trashed and not thinking clearly.
I expect the reason she started drinking to excess is was because it’s part and parcel with the whole “Head Cheerleader HBIC” image she depends on to find validation in the face of neglectful parents and a rather unpleasant personality that drives people away.
Hmmm alcohol is often used unconsciously as self-medication… You’re feeling super bad because something bad happened? Get wasted and forget abt it! You’re in immense pain? Get wasted and forget about it! You hate yourself so much that fifteen minutes alone with your thoughts make you want to die? Get wasted and forget abt it. Alcohol makes the pain go away, although it usually comes back later with a vengeance.
Also: you’re awkward and don’t know how to talk to people? You have desires you don’t know how to express while sober? Alcohol makes you act stupid, but part of that stupidity is acting swiftly on your desires, talking to everyone without inhibitions. I remember when I started drinking one of my common thoughts was “I was never my true self before now”.
I wonder how much of Billie’s personality is trying to be who she is while drunk. I’ve met people (myself included, for a while) who thought they were their best selves while drunk. From what we know, Billie never even went on a date! But she had a lot of sexual experiences, I mean party-Billie, drunk-Billie had that, I’m betting sober-Billie had never even kissed anyone before Ruth.
I mean, of course the #1 reason is she’s addicted. She can’t quite imagine a sober life. But since she still sees alcohol as a viable solution to life’s problems, she might not even realize that she’s physically addicted to it.
I just realized I forgot to add this very important note in my comment: the things alcohol tells you are lies. You are not your best self drunk. You feel super smooth but you’re actually a mess. You think you’re dealing with the pain but you’re only postponing it. You might be more honest abt some repressed parts of yourself, but you’re sacrifing many other parts of yourself to get that, and you can’t even fully explore the part of yourself that alcohol reveals. I used to have alcohol-induced bisexuality, and let me tell you, it pales in comparison with actual full-time bisexuality. You don’t fully enjoy things until you can enjoy them sober.
Don’t worry, Ruth. With the advents of modern medicine, there’s a chance that eventually they’ll create an alcoholic beverage that has the same effect as your meds.
I don’t get the “no alcohol ever” bit. I’m on anti-depressant meds, SNRIs, big dose, and probably for the rest of my life. Alcohol is really inexpensive, because at 2 drinks I’m quite drunk, and at three I’m vomiting while watching the little men run around on the carpet. The label says “This medication may increase the effects of alcohol”. Yes, it does, a lot. It does not say “no alcohol ever”.
“Quite drunk” is exactly what Ruth is trying to avoid. She hates booze and hates being an alcoholic and hates loving an alcoholic. She doesn’t want to hit rock bottom ever again, and she doesn’t want to be what killed her parents. It’s not that she CAN’T have alcohol with her medication, it’s that she doesn’t WANT it. She wants to be sober, and she wants Billie to support her, preferably by following suit.
Ruth is an alcoholic. She knows if she drinks one, she’ll drink too many, it will reduce the effect of her meds and might lead to her doing something bad to herself. She is setting the limit for herself.
It’s like how I buy Chocolate cake and say I’ll only eat one slice. Then I realize I’ve eaten 8 slices in 20 minutes. I’m a cakeic. (Not a cakeaholic since I’m not addicted to cakeahol)
yeah, but since she’s an alcoholic, the treatment would then be rendered ineffective since she’d get even more wasted than before, which brought on all her problems.
also some antidepressant classes can be less compatible with alcohol than others, and do we know if she got antipsychotics? Those don’t mix well either.
It’d be in character for Ruth to adopt a hardline stance on alcohol and medication, because it’s more convenient for her if she can tell herself her she can’t drink: it gives her an excuse/motivation to not start drinking again, since she has an alcohol problem.
At the same time, you’re right: there’s an obvious issue with taking a depressant while trying to cure a depression, but it’s a somewhat extreme prognosis to suggest that she can’t ever drink: she probably will be able to in, at a guess, a few years time. (I mean, if she were a real person: since she’s fictional she’ll be able to drink when Willis says so.)
(There’s also MAOIs, which tend to react badly to most alcoholic drinks, but if that was the issue Ruth would be going “because my blood pressure would rise and I would literally die and not dying is the entire fucking point”.)
Ruth doesn’t like the fact that she drinks. Ruth doesn’t want to be a person who drinks. Having a convenient rule that says she can’t ever drink is good for her.
Speaking as a person who is probably a genetic alcoholic from a family of them, I adopted the, “Not even once” policy. Complete abstinence of alcohol seems safer than testing my limits.
It’s a fantasy med with fantasy requirements. It doesn’t mix with alcohol.
Also, being depressed is kind of normal for drinking alcoholics. Trying to cure a depression and not stopping to drink doesn’t work that well for them.
Given that several people here have commented on how it does match their instructions, I’m not sure how unrealistic it is.
There are a lot of different meds and they can easily have different restrictions.
Probably best not to name a particular real med and get bogged down in the detailed portrayal of how that one works though.
Especially since “that one med” would work differently for different people, anyway. The whole reason those of us on depression/anxiety meds get jumped around until something works is because no one med works the same on all people.
I was doing research on antidepressants for a story once and I found a bunch that said not to take with alcohol – risks ranged from drowsiness to death from spiking blood pressure.
Mine does say no alcohol ever (as do my blood sugar meds), and I’ve seen several others that do the same, so I think in this case you’re just lucky. 😛 And it’s not, in the case of mine, that it increases the effects of alcohol, it’s that (as far as I understand it) the alcohol, as a depressant, negates the effects of the antidepressant.
Like Ruth said yesterday: The meds (that have not have time to really kick in) make her want to stay alive and alcohol would counteract those meds.
Ruth decided she wants to live and does want she sees as necessary to do that.
Point is, Ruth already knows how bad alcohol is for her (she’s an alcoholic!); she basically knows she can’t drink in moderation.
So why should she drink any alcohol at all when that just risks spiralling into what it did last time?
Also, not drinking alcohol really isn’t like forfeiting all fun in life or anything. It’s fine. It’s not even a big deal in itself. I’m having plenty of fun without alcohol. I can totally see that many people want to drink some alcohol, they are happy and have no problems drinking, and that’s fine. But it’s also totally fine to never drink, and it’s not an extreme way to live your life either, although so many people seem to think it is.
So when I was younger I didn’t read my short term medication closely – apparently I wasn’t supposed to drink for three days AFTER ending it. Guess who got alcohol poisoning from ONE drink and actively thought they were in the process of dying? My dumbing of ass…
As a counterpoint, Ruth’s an alcoholic who uses drinking as a coping mechanism. She may not have your self control to stop at one, two, or even three. A friend of mine was on strong anti-depressants while also being an alcoholic, and he went to the hospital twice because it during the year I knew him.
No drug is completely harmless. Even caffeine, which most people would never consider as a drug, might be linked to the rising incidence of insomnia in Western nations (it’s likely not the SOLE factor, since other things like bad sleep patterns and bluelight devices that mess with our circadian rhythms also contribute, but the high consumption of caffeine in most Western nations can’t be ruled out). The fact that so many people go “Oh, I can’t function without my morning cup of coffee” and see no problem with that statement is actually quite alarming.
My friend Kyle does point out a large amount of the fun of travel is enjoying the various bars of countries as well as getting pissed on them. Then again he IS European and alcohol is a national sport where he’s from.
Yeah, that got me in trouble one of the times I visited. Too much too fast, and my wife had to hold me up while we made our way back to the hotel. After that, it was only beers, cheese, and ossenwurst (oh! the ossenwurst!)
Yeah, but it’s currently still way easier in the Netherlands– and probably other states in the US. We (Michigan) are still in the “fighting over how this will work” stage.
Last time I drank alcohol on meds it was less than half a hard orange soda. I passed out, slept for about 14 hours, and when I woke up trump had been elected.
Im sorry y’all. I will go back in time and throw out the hard orange sodas, just as soon as the Doctor arrives to transport me back.
Or any of you can do it – that might be safer than me interfering in my own timeline.
Our timeline seems fragile enough already without any huge paradoxes.
You mean Hillary? …. conscription reinstated ….
Bernie? …. how long before he would be added to the list with Lincoln et al?
All of a sudden the orange NY Business Gambling magnate doesn’t seem so bad…. this timeline really is messed up.
Particularly since the supposed alternative is right-wing paranoia. Clinton bringing back conscription was a fake news conspiracy theory and if the Secret Service kept Obama alive, they could have kept Sanders that way too.
She probably doesn’t want to mess with her neurochemistry any more than she had to. I drink, but there are certain substances that I will not touch any more because I got sick of spiraling in my early twenties. If alcohol is unhealthy for her (or any real people for that matter) then that’s something to respect.
Right. I’m a proud consumer of alcohol(but not to the point of getting drunk), but having known alcoholics, I say if it hurts you(physically, psychologically, outwardly) then you shouldn’t drink(same for any addictive/abusive substance really).
It’s not so much Billie’s being dumb as she’s being selfish. She’s unconsciously admitting to caring about Ruth only as a crutch and a codependent so Billie doesn’t have to confront herself and where she is now as opposed to Ruth, who knows that alcohol is actively bringing her down and may ultimately kill her (directly or indirectly) and wants to actually do the hard work of getting better.
I think she legitimately cares about and has strong feelings for Ruth, but she also has Alice as an ex, and that sounds like it didn’t go super great. Not shocked that she hasn’t really learned how to have a healthy relationship yet.
Not even really dumb or selfish – she’s being an addict. And in denial about it. She’s going to have to admit that and deal with it, but it was never going to be easy.
I feel like we won’t be on a scene with these two all the way until V day. And I doubt we’ll scene hop then come right back, sooo, who else can we have sad relationship stuff happen with on V day?
Oh, there’s lot’s of options. Walky and Amber for one, though I’m hoping W. throws us a curve and V day shows their relationship picking back up. But there could easily be a very sad strip between them as well.
I was under the impression that a lot of anti-depression medicatio is supposed to slowly stabilize your hormonic problems so you can, eventually, slowly, stop taking them.
That’s what happened with me, after all. my doctor slowly lowered the dose and then had me taking the lowered dose less days a week until we eliminated it.
You’re a very lucky person, then, and I’m glad for you. But it’s not so much that anti-depressants work that way. What actually happens is that for some people, their depression comes from external causes; and so, the meds are to help them get through them until they’re eased (always coupled with therapy, tho, they aren’t to be taken alone). For other people, depression is endogenous. There’s something in the brain chemistry that isn’t letting them breathe, either by genetics, hardcore trauma, or both; and for them, meds have to be taken permanently.
Or, in at least one case: After a specific set of really horrible recent stuff, being diagnosed with Major Depression, and exercise wasn’t helping.
Within hours after the first Wellbutrin pill: “Hey, the world has colors again, and is three dimensional!”
About nine months later (with minimal therapy), a sudden transition from “Each pill tops up the good/normal feeling” to “each pill causes agitation and mild sick feeling – must be time to quit.”
And then tapering off faster than the doctor recommended, and being fine.
This happened to someone I know well and trust completely. Obviously it’s not how antidepressants usually work, but it is possible.
Just so you know…those tapers aren’t recommended because of something that will 100%, absolutely definitely happen. They’re recommended because of something that has unacceptably high odds of happening.
All I’m saying is, ignoring the advice to taper and not getting hurt by it doesn’t translate to “the doctor was wrong”, but rather “the doctor didn’t want to gamble, the patient chose to, and fortunately the gamble went well.” Which is all fine and well, so long as the person *actually understands* the gamble they’re taking, but more often than not, they don’t.
Also, psych meds definitely *can* work that fast, but usually if they do, it’s a bad sign and most docs will switch you *off* a med that kicks in too rapidly. However, that’s always balanced against how dangerous the state that the person was in prior to initiating the meds. But basically, the transition your friend eventually saw is not that unexpected, given their initial overreaction to the drug. The other concern would have been setting off an undiagnosed bipolar disorder and triggering mania…which is the primary reason a too-good response to meds generally results in a med change.
TL;DR there’s a LOT more going on beneath the surface in these medication decisions than what the doc is able to describe in the short interview. These things aren’t common, but they aren’t inexplicable, either, and I promise that doctors generally have a lot more thought processes underlying their advice than they necessarily explain.
Yeah, tapering is important. My doctor tried to reduce my migraine meds too fast, and it messed me up so much I thought I’d broken a rib, and then had trouble getting to the doctor’s office because I couldn’t make sense of the buses. My head was a mess for weeks. Even when we went slower after that, I was still a mess, but it was manageable.
And thank fuck that wasn’t one of the medications that gives worse withdrawal effects, like brain zaps.
Well, external causes aren’t the only kind of depression that can be treated without being on meds forever. Stuff like CBT and DBT can retrain the brain quite a bit. Although there’s still no treatment that’s 100% effective on everyone.
There are some types of depression that work like that, usually because your brain has been screwed up by some other issue or because you have acute depression due to trauma/loss/something. Lots of folks have depression due to stuff we either don’t understand or can’t fix, and Ruth (being an abuse survivor) is likely firmly in the latter camp.
I… I don’t think Billie think she can quit alcohol. Addiction is a bongo, and she has never managed to make a serious effort. I think she hears Ruth breaking up with her 🙁
She’s never really considered that her problem is bad enough that she really should make an effort, though. Sure, there was was DUI that got her banned from cheerleading, but it’s not like she ever vanished and scared someone half-to-death by drinking herself helf-to-death, y’know? She’s not nearly as bad an alcoholic as Ruth, so clearly she can deal with it. Right?
It’s not that she’s never managed to make a serious effort as that I don’t think she’s ever really felt she needed to. She’s never actually tried, so we don’t know if she could — and neither does she.
I don’t think Billie thinks she can’t do it; I really think she thinks she dosen’t need to; everything under control. I’m sure she thinks if she really needed to, she could stop, no problem. But why stop when everything’s fine?
She doesn’t even want therapy because that’d involve admitting that there is a problem at all.
Billie has not admitted that there is a problem anywhere.
Story time!
In my country, the local independence celebration lasts about a week. This is usually a whole week with no classes and very, VERY minimal work, unless you work a supermarket or retail.
So, back in my last year of high school, the week ends and on most day one of my classmates didn’t reappear.
He didn’t reappear until about a week later. Apparently, he had gone out partying with some friends on the 17th and woke up from the blackout drunkenness on the 20th, in a city about 800 miles away.
He took the week off to check his health and get supremely grounded for the rest of the year.
I feel like panel one does a great job illustrating Billie’s mindset with both her and Ruth’s alcoholism. She’s putting a lot of energy into minimizing how serious it is for either of them. As long as it’s something that can be ‘fixed’, she doesn’t have to face the prospect of giving up drinking permanently. I mean, I have no idea how alcohol works, or antidepressants for that matter, and can’t say for sure whether either of them absolutely do have to give up drinking, but that mentality sure isn’t helping.
Of course, Billie’s also been so sweet and supportive of Ruth’s efforts to recover from her depression, so it’s kind of confusing to me, too. I guess that’s what’s keeping her from trying harder to deny that Ruth doesn’t need to give up drinking?
Ruth wants to absolutely give up drinking, and I think believes that having a medically induced ultimatum is possibly her best chance to do it. She really can’t keep using alcohol to treat her depression. It makes things worse.
Also this is emotionally harrowing and I’m on the edge of my seat but it’s downright uncomfortable how raw and direct the issues are here. I care for and empathize with these characters and seeing them in pain hurts.
(Especially because I’m terrified they’ll split and I just want to roll up in a thick blanket and be told depressed WLWs can stay together too – that we’re not doomed to be alone because we’re depressed and WLWs.)
I mean, you are a little doomed if you’re both addicts and one of you is trying hard to recover while the other is trying to drag you back down without realizing.
I just hope Ruth can move on to a healthy place in her life and get a nice, non self centered girl friend.
And I hope Billie can realize she has a problem and work to be a healthier person
There’s always the chance they’ll get back together. Or, alternatively, one or both will find another girlfriend who struggles with depression but without the alcoholism.
It’s not so much Billie’s being dumb as she’s being selfish. She’s unconsciously admitting to caring about Ruth only as a crutch and a codependent so Billie doesn’t have to confront herself and where she is now as opposed to Ruth, who knows that alcohol is actively bringing her down and may ultimately kill her (directly or indirectly) and wants to actually do the hard work of getting better.
Or even not that – I think she doesn’t think she CAN give up alcohol, doesn’t think she can be the person Ruth needs. With Ruth getting better and she staying in the same self-destructive place as always, she can’t be with Ruth any longer 🙁
I actually feel a lot of empathy for Billie in this comic. I think she really likes Ruth, but she doesn’t know how to deal with that because it doesn’t fit with her “super awesome cheerleader” identity. And it’s an identity that she’s been both clinging to desperately and losing at the same time. The resurgence of people in her new dorm who are basically worshiping her cheerleader persona are not helping this struggle.
And she’s also losing one of her biggest coping mechanisms (alcohol) for her myriad of issues (which I’m sure we’ve only scratched the surface of). Beyond that, she really doesn’t know how to help Ruth here or how to deal with a person who has depression. Anger issues are easier for Billie, just fight ’em out.
Also, Billie’s main form of helping people is, it seems, to literally provide them with alcohol or bring out the cheerleader persona to give truly bad advice (see the conversation she had with Walky about his relationship problems). So, with all that in mind, Billie seems to be panicking in this strip and does what a lot of us do when feeling like we have no good options – she tells a stupid joke.
So, yeah, Billie is majorly fucking up here, but I feel for her. I really do.
I do too, but Billie needs to stop seeing the people in her life as facilitators to her ego or enablers for her self-indulgence and unwillingness to confront her problems.
This is one of the few times that the age difference between Ruth and Billie has really struck me — along with Ruth’s ‘I forgive you because I think you really need that’ strip while Billie was asleep. I know it’s not much of an age difference, but still. Adult vs. teenager.
Ay Ruth, we may have been the same age when I started reading 5 years ago but you’re more responsible than me. Just can’t give up social drinking even with my meds.
Lotta people chiming in about alcohol and depression and a lot of things right now. Lotta those people saying they don’t drink and don’t understand the appeal. I haven’t commented in a while, but I’m someone who deals with both of those things, and I feel the urge to add my two cents. Not entirely sure why. Maybe I feel like it’ll help the people saying “I don’t get it.” Maybe it’ll help the people dealing with the same shit.
I’ve had issues with depression my whole life. It was only in college that I understood what it was. Before I understood, I used drinking to deal with it.
Alcohol makes you feel good. When you feel bad all the time, and you don’t understand why, it’s really easy to start using that as a crutch. Especially when you feel bad all the time because of chemicals in your brain. When that’s why you feel bad, there isn’t much that will make you feel good besides more chemicals. And booze is cheaper than pills. Probably lucky I only have an alcohol addiction to deal with. It’s really fucking easy to get addicted. You use that substance to relieve yourself from something once. And it works really well. It can be depression, or stress from your job, or the stress from your wedding, or the stress from dealing with your mother-in-law who you hate so very much, and you wish she would stop emotionally abusing your wife and also you, or maybe something else. But it works. It works very well. So you keep doing it because you are human. Part of our survival instinct is recognizing when something makes life easier and using it more and more. But your dumb monkey-brain doesn’t realize that chemicals are a thing that your brain can grow to depend on, even if your smart human-brain does. Soon, you can only feel good when you have that chemical.
When you’re addicted to something, that substance controls your whole life. Period. It’s your first thought. When I wake up, I start thinking about when my next drink will be and how I’ll acquire it. Even though I’m trying to quit. I keep thinking about when the next time I’ll “allow” myself to drink will be. When there’s something I want to do, be it an event or just playing video games at home, alcohol comes first. My enjoyment has to come through that lens. I can, technically, enjoy things without booze. But I don’t remember how to conceptualize that.
Billie, here, makes complete sense to me. She’s an alcoholic and has been one for a long time. She doesn’t know how to enjoy something without alcohol. Or at least views enjoyment of things she likes through the lens of alcohol consumption. It’s not that she doesn’t love Ruth or want to be with her. It’s just hard for her to conceive of her relationship with Ruth without viewing it through the lens of drinking. She’s not trying to sabotage Ruth’s recovery. She just doesn’t really know how to picture a future without alcohol. Or how to imagine the joy of a relationship when it isn’t filtered through the lens of at least occasional intoxication. It doesn’t make her a bad person. At least I hope it doesn’t, or I’m a bad person. It makes her someone who fell into a very easy trap.
Addendum: Not saying no one should ever drink alcohol because it will ruin your life. A lot of people can drink in moderation and feel fine.
What I am saying is that using alcohol as a medication for other bad feelings is very tempting when you have them a lot and you know what it will do.
Simple rule I think helps: Never drink when you’re sad, angry, stressed, frustrated, etc. Only drink when you already feel good and you’re just trying to enjoy life. Not a perfect rule. Very good loophole for alcoholics to abuse. But I dunno. I feel like it might help people not end up like me.
Well, at least now we know a little about Billie’s life goals: A world-spanning pub-crawl seems to have been the plan at least for some point post-graduation! It will be interesting to see if Billie is capable of a relationship where social and heavy drinking isn’t an essential part of it!
In terms of Ruth and Billie’s relationship, I’ve got to say that the signs look bad.
More to the point, I think Billie’s goal is a world that doesn’t change. She will always be the popular cheer leader, she and Ruth will always have their self-destructive relationship (without getting to the actual ‘destruction’ part). She will never have to confront her many faults.
She is a lot like Walky in that regard.
After Ruth was taken in to hospital it was clear for her that she needed to change (since ‘die’ suddenly felt less attractive). Billie didn’t get that message. She thought they got a second chance to just keep doing what they did before.
With Ruth trying to change and Billie trying to stay the same, that’s a… problematic foundation for their relationship.
Ruth in the last panel: “Not sure if she’s still pressuring me, or making a shittily time joke. Need more info to decide whether I beat her with one or both of her femurs”
Billie, did you even watched Euro Trip (that movie is dumb by the way). There are many things you can do in Europe without alcohol: fight a fake robot, have sex with Ruth in a Vatican confession room, eat brownies that don’t have drugs, be tortured by stereotypes of BDSM practioners… okay, not that one.
Why do I feel Ruth is going to break with Billie soon?
Huh, meant as a selfburn about relative availability of mountains in Scandinavia, in my increasingly stupid chain of comments to KSClaw above. As a stand-alone comment I suppose it is about… EU. Yeah, let’s go with that.
Hey, don’t dis Norway. They were ready to give Finland one of their mountains to celebrate Finland’s 100th year of independence. (slight border adjustment — couldn’t really do that for Denmark.)
Well since they’re not coming to Europe I guess Europe is coming to them. Shame you can’t hear the funny accents in the comments, ’cause that’s the best part about backpacking across Europe as Americans: you get to try out a new brand of English every few hundred kilometers.
This is the first time that I’ve actually had outright rage towards Billie. “Fix you”? This just changes their entire relationship in my eyes, including her view of the near-suicide. I have no sympathy for Billie anymore. None.
As CJ said, Billie is an alcoholic. To add to that, she probably didn’t realize what Ruth being on meds meant til panel 3, and may still not fully understand – people don’t get what meds for mental issues can mean. They think it’s like taking two advil and being better in the morning
Now if Billie doubles down? THEN you can start lining her up with Mary. Right now though, the final panel feels more like her brain locking up and saying something stupid in shock
This is consistent with how both Billie and Ruth have been discussing Ruth’s depression this entire time. Without the context, it’d be an awful thing to say, in context, it’s just how they talk, IMO.
I mean, if you take it out of context like that, yeah it sounds terrible. “Can we fix your suicidal depression” though is not an unreasonable stance. Unless you’re implying Ruth’s entire personality is the fact that she’s suicidally depressed, in which case, they need to break up because that’s unhealthy for Billie.
Personally, being drunk is the only time the constant noise in my brain shuts up. I can actually stop and think about just one thing, instead of every bit of information around me. It’s honestly more effective at helping my anxiety than any of the medications I’ve ever been on.
The problem is, because of my parents, I’m extremely susceptible to addiction. As honestly fantastic as I feel when I’ve had a few drinks, I know it’s a massive risk every single time. And so, I very rarely ever drink at all, and then only around people who I trust to take it away when I hit a certain limit. So far, that’s been a good system, and nobody’s been hurt.
All of this to say, Billie could probably stand to have a friend around to keep an eye on her, if she absolutely insists on continuing to drink. Sometimes, you flat-out can’t stop someone from doing something they want to do, but you can at least try to keep them from taking it too far.
I don’t know, maybe I’m way off, here. Billie is a much more assertive personality than me, after all.
Billie is a) already a bona fide alcoholic who drinks constantly and b) has no respect for anyone having authority over her or the concept that someone could know better than her. It’s really not a comparable situation. Also, it’s really not fair to anyone to expect them to be her babysitter.
Billie being asked to give up drinking by a partner is a perfectly valid reason to end a relationship….were it not killing Billie slowly. Drinking is a safe hobby for a lot of people but it isn’t for Billie.
For fuck’s sake dude she isn’t even being asked to do that stop harping on it it’s getting incredibly annoying watching you try to die on this hill that doesn’t even exist.
A) Dude, don’t make references to the next strip. It’s a dick move.
B) No. Ruth has never asked Billie to give up drinking. BILLIE is the one assuming this means she has to do that because Ruth DARED to tell her to stop offering alcohol, so now she’s exaggerating to be guilt trippy.
Okay, that last bit about guilt tripping is unfair. She hasn’t gotten that far yet. The point is though, BILLIE is the one asserting she needs to stop drinking. That’s not something Ruth said.
So many people who drink, even non alcoholics get so threatened by the idea of someone not drinking sometimes and think you saying you can’t/won’t is a moral judgement saying they shouldn’t either, so I’m not shocked Billie leapt to that conclusion
I’m gonna be charitable and assume it’s less that she thinks Ruth expects it of her and more that she’s trying to be supportive. She’s not doing an amazing job but I’d like to think she’s making an effort here.
You make a good point. I was gonna say that I wasn’t calling for someone to babysit Billie, but yeah, that’s pretty much what it would take. She really sort of can’t be trusted with herself, right now.
Yeah, it’s not so much an “accompany her when she goes to the bar” gig as it is a “regularly search every space she frequents to make sure she hasn’t stashed alcohol there” gig.
And your depression. I’m of the variety that will almost certainly have another episode, even on meds – there’s never been a time in the ten years since I went on them that we seriously considered going off them and not having a replacement. (It also runs in the family – I have multiple relatives whose default for years is ‘on antidepressants’.)
About the no alcohol, as pointed out Ruth is an alcoholic looking to quit because the drinking feeds into her self-loathing loop. (She hates herself, then she hates herself because she drinks, so she drinks more and then she hates herself and…) ‘My meds don’t let me’ is a really good excuse to keep social pressure off, even if it’s not entirely true. Especially since Ruth’s depression ended up going extremely public, at least in their dorm.
That’s pretty much exactly how mine work? I mean I might not be on the same ones forever because maybe a different med or combination will work better, and new formulas may come available, but I can expect to be on some kind of antidepressant forever. I’ve been on some kind for my entire adult life.
I meant this more as a response to Billie’s “just take it once and it will fix you and everything will be fine” attitude. Remember when she visited Ruth in the hospital?
Aaaah, yes. Billie definitely doesn’t understand depression as a chronic illness with chronic treatment, agreed. (I mean Billie also doesn’t recognize SHE’S got some less dramatic but still present depression issues going on too, so not surprising.)
One very obvious similarity between Billie and her sorta-foster brother Walky: She tries to defuse tension with badly thought-out wisecracks. I suppose it’s a kind of attempted deflection but I don’t think that this will work with Ruth.
Even without medications complicating things further, that’s how alcoholism works. No alcohol. Ever.
It isn’t like a diet where you can just say “I’ll stick to the diet guidelines.” Because the whole reason you’re an alcoholic is because you can’t stick to the ‘diet’ guidelines.
I don’t think I’ve ever wanted a fictional couple to break up as badly as I want Billie and Ruth to. They’re *not good* for each other, and they never have been. I really, REALLY hope this is the point where at least one of them realizes that.
Honestly, as a person who has dealt with self injury (which has a component of psychological addiction) and who has a family history of addiction, all or nothing approach never worked for me. I would be good for a long time, screw up, then binge it because fuck it I ruined it anyway so why not.
For me, addictive behaviors always remained until I improved my mental health and coping strategies. Not saying that is the case for all folks with addiction, just that for me 12 step style black and white thinking was actively counter-productive because it fed into my existing mental health issues and tendencies towards black and white absolutism and obsessive tendencies. Once I learned to challenge the thought patterns that led me to spiral and better coping mechanisms, my psychological addiction to self injury went away. For me, it was a coping mechanism and once I had better tools, I didn’t need it anymore. Furthermore, before I was ready to stop, the harder I tried, the worse it got…
I guess my point is not everyone benefits from abstinence programs for addiction. I didn’t. It made me worse. And that the mental health, moderation and coping skills approach helps some folks. I know because I am one. I haven’t self injured in 7 years – but not because I tried to quit. Because I worked on my mental health so that I didn’t need it anymore.
Again, not saying that the abstinence method isn’t a good approach. It can be great if it works for you. More saying it wasn’t the approach that worked for me, and too many people seem to think it’s the only approach.
If the alcohol isn’t “just” your attempt to medicate the unmedicatable but has also become your ride-or-die buddy, you’re essentially deadweight in any relationship. Go work on yourself, Billie. Or at least get out of her way.
The thing that has struck me throughout this whole mini-arc so far is the way Billie keeps on pausing and shooting Ruth this pleading look as if she’s begging her to back down. It’s a remarkably child-like thing to do. I’m not saying that as a criticism of her but as an observation about her mindset. I wonder how many times she’s got her own way with her parents by looking at them pleadingly in a way that communicates that her happiness depends on it?
The sadder and more charitable view of those looks: realizing the full scale of the problem affecting a person she loves and breaking a little. Because who does she love besides herself, walky and Ruth?
Bad, bad, bad idea. I’m not sure if Ruth is on antidepressants, antipsychotics, a mood stabilizer, or what exactly, but taking any of those without an express need is a terrible idea. Not only can they have some nasty side effects even to those who do need them, but they have really negative effects on healthy minds.
If the goal is sobriety, unless there’s an underlying disorder, behavioral therapy and support groups are the best option. In fact, I’d recommend a group like AA or NAMI to both Billie and Ruth so they can A) learn more about mental illness and addiction, and B) experience recovery together.
Billie needs therapy – and had been set up with appointments that she’s blowing off.
Whether that would lead to some form of prescription or not is up in the air.
Yeah, there was an arc ages ago (like, pre-suicide pact I think) that established Billie likely has some depressive issues herself. But you DON’T treat those by palming someone else’s for like seventeen different reasons. And I don’t think Billie realizes that she has any problems, depression or alcoholism or elsewise.
I meant go to a doctor and get her own prescription not take Ruth’s . I think she would certainly be able to find a doctor willing to prescribe her given the issues she has exhibited.
I would think anyone who would make a suicide pact would be in enough trouble to justify meds. But I guess it is true that Billie would likely try drinking while on meds anyway.
I think both are true– she’s not as far gone as Ruth was, but still at a place that medication would be a valid option. If she could be responsible with it.
I have almost nothing in common with Billie besides bisexuality, but damn if she doesn’t look and sound exactly like me when my older, wiser friend gently suggested I take three months off from drinking. “Then what is the fucking POINT?!” screamed my brain.
Billie, friend, you gotta get to a goddamn therapist in addiction.
Oof. I see how people can be hella mad at Billie but also I can relate. I know Ruth’s not asking her but if someone mentioned to me “no caffiene ever” I’d have a blue screen of death that would last days followed by lots of crying.
I have Bipolar disorder and sometimes a soda or coffee is what I need to care about or be excited about anything
Not healthy but..yeah.
Still Billie needs to understand how important this is to Ruth.
I have known people like Billie. Some managed to pull themselves up and into recovery after having their asses kicked by life too many times. Some wound up with not so happy endings.
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Panel 3: Billie struggling to understand a completely alien concept.
It’s like if you told her that Tuesdays were cancelled, or we’ve run out of yellow.
We’ve run out of yellow? Why didn’t anyone tell me?
…is that why Billie’s shirt is this beige-y shade?
She used the last of the yellow up. That’s why her top’s sort of washed out, it’s like the printer was low on ink.
Ruth is upset because there’s an angry mob of Spongebob fans protesting outside the dorm, because thanks to Billie he has to be puce now. They were already mad after the Superbowl, this is the last straw.
Refer them to my book, SpongeBob has Always Been Puce.
Yeah people are really pissed about that around here. There was some kind of riot, and 1.5 million people took to the streets. Spongebob, you say?
Also purple is illegal, apparently nobody else got that memo so be warned
Most people confuse purple (which is more reddish) with violet (which is more bluish) anyway [>>], so some wearers of such shades may intentionally be testing the boundaries of that law.
After all, you know how youths can be..
Drinking, fighting, roller derbying, chicken nugget eating, using up all the yellow, colorfully testing boundaries..
Everybody knows that purple isn’t a real colour anyway… 😛 (Thumbs nose at non-spectral colours) xD
Oddly, I’ve also known people to confuse violet with indigo, thinking both are shades of purple. The lack of education in schools about colours astounds me. What DO they teach these kids nowadays, anyhow?
What they should *really* do is sit them all down in front of a TV and make them watch the original 80s Rainbow Brite! ^^
Well, if nothing else, this will make the Green Lanterns happy.
If by yellow you mean Jack Daniels.
goldenrod, kinda
So that’s why my pee’s been green lately. Guess I’ll cancel that doctor appointment.
At least wait until after St. Patrick’s day.
My guess is that she took Ruth literally when she said she was sick…
or… I guess a better way to say is she related it to the most common usage?
She thought Ruth was just, under the weather for a bit.
Would take her meds, and then be fine.
But drugs aren’t magic. If you are lucky, they work, and if you are even luckier, the side effects are in an acceptable limit.
What is Billie thinking?! That Ruth’s goal is to get better SO she can drink again?! Psychological healing takes an incredible amount of time and energy. If Billie doesn’t get it, she will be a bad influence – an enabler, to quote someone from yesterday – for Ruth and Ruth would be better off without her. So far, Ruth is holding her ground,though.
Well, an enabler would be better social support network than Sir, so I don’t think Ruth is better off without her. But Billie has a lot to learn yet.
Well yeah, that’s pretty much what Billie thinks.
Ruth’s problem is the depression. Cure that and she’ll be able to drink again. Why not? It’s not like the alcohol itself could be an issue.
Thinking like that might lead to wondering about her own drinking and she knows that’s not a problem.
The problem here is that Billie is thinking of Ruth’s medication in terms of a cure. It’s not a cure. It’s a treatment. And the problem with the English language in general is that a lot of people don’t make a distinction between treatments and cures.
Cures get rid of whatever the problem is. Treatments…well, they treat the problem (or maybe just its symptoms), but don’t actually get rid of the (underlying) problem itself, which may or may not get better in time on its own.
Taking antibiotics for a bacterial infection will cure it in a week or two. Taking cough/cold mixture is a treatment for the cold’s symptoms, but the cold will get better all on its own in a week or so. Treating my autoimmune disease will not get rid of it (but can lessen symptoms), and it likely will never get better on its own either. And Billie hasn’t grasped that Ruth’s depression (and alcoholism) is most similar to this type of illness.
Partly – and that’s certainly true.
But I think more significant is that she doesn’t really accept that she’s alcoholic or that that is itself a huge part of the problem.
This is actually a solid representation of how many people with addiction issues think. They’re used to viewing problems as obstacles to overcome or figure out the trick to, so they can get back to what matters most, and they’re of losing relationships that gave them permission to continue engaging in addictive behavior. Ruth is actually adjusting to her reality with impressive quickness, though everyone moves at their own pace. (I’m a professional in the field, and am pretty impressed by the presentation of this storyline.)
“stupid culture shit is stupid when sober”
Alt-text: Wait, so now we have no reason to go to Disney??
(j/k we don’t drink, I’m going for Heracross/Corsola potential)
It’s been over a year, and I still haven’t made it to Corpus Christi to get my Heracross.
Le sigh.
(thankfully, there’s still Corsolas-a-plenty here.)
I’m in Austin, and we go to Victoria (2 hrs away) Cute town with fun restaurants.
My parents leave a cooler in their car with tequila, salt, and limes in it so they can go out to their car periodically to do shots. Much cheaper than the drinks inside the parks.
All the people I’ve known who’ve done that with margarita-style drinks were Texans (which is a bit intuitive, given the nature of the drink), and it was a common enough thing that noone batted an eye over it. I wonder if other states have similar beverages they favor, or if they just default to beers and beer coolers alone?
When they were alive, my grandparents had season passes to D-land (we’re going to D-world) and would ALWAYS sneak in literally ALL THE FOOD AND DRINKS
Like, a luggage size tote per grand amounts of consumables
“Don’t worry Billie, you can still swim in de Nile.”
So, Billie Cleopatra Billingsworth, The Queen of Denial?
Dumbing of Age Book 9: No Alcohol. EVER.
Dumbing of Age Book 9: BILLIE.
Dumbing of Age Book 9: [just panel 3]
“Dumbing of Age Book 9: No Alcohol. EVER.”
No way! That’s far too tragic a title!
Let’s just go with “So we’ll back off from the booze for a bit” instead.
So first Billie basically says “I’m ashamed of you and don’t want the new people I know to know I’m with you”, now Billie seems to be leaning towards “I would rather be able to drink than be with you”
I think that’s probably oversimplifying it, but it is true that she has to face the realities of their relationship, and make the decision of if she is in or if she is out.
That’s some quality pillow talk. Next Billie will say something about how Canada sucks or call her ugly or something.
She already told Ruth her fave hockey team sucks.
I think reality broke that to her earlier. Also, your gravatar is amazing.
Well, she’s right about that one…
Sorry but what page is that becky gravitar from
Even sorrier, but it’s a fanmade edit. Those are Joyce’s eyes and mouth pasted onto Becky’s face.
Now, don’t be silly. Who would go to all the trouble of altering comic frames to make a custom Gravatar?
Hey, if you gotta break up with someone, break up with them while doing the thing you love to do the most together. End the relationship on a high note.
In their case, it’s fighting.
I’ve been wondering since the beginning if she loves Ruth or the situation…
What do they have in common (besides drpression and alcoholism)?
Determination, snarkiness/sarcasm, devotion, sexual attraction
Also they are both women.
Nobody loves The Situation. Besides, he is in prison for a while.
Yes Europe is only good for alcohol. No beautiful scenery or lesbian orgy houses in Amsterdam.
As a German with maybe a tiny little alcohol problem I completely agree with Billie here.
It actually is a pretty common thing for alcoholics to rank trip goals by the possibilities of alcohol consumption.
Reminds me of Judy Collins’s songbook, that she interspersed with passages about her life. Every passage except the childhood ones mention what she or the people around her were drinking.
*mentions*
as a finn: shes not wrong
I guess that makes sense. I mean, I’ve been known to do food vacations.
Ok, every vacation is a food vacation. I totally pick where I’m going because they have interesting food.
It’s just convenient that places with great food usually have good booze too.
Eastern spain…. hell, most of the mediterranean is beautiful.
Warm watered beaches. Some of the most beautiful vistas in the world…
Just don’t pay any mind the the architectural accessories on each and every window and door made from heavy wrought iron.
Um, what are you talking about?
That kind of thing can be an indicator that the area suffers aot of break-ins.
Shhhhh… Remember the First rule of Lesbian Orgy Club…..
“Safe, Sane, Consensual” right?
But why would you go backpacking across Europe in the first place when you can build pillow forts instead?
Ask for Paris, settle for Montreal–a line from one of my mother’s novels.
Burn that novel. We don’t want anyone “settling” for Montreal. D:
Also there’s no European feel there, that would be Quebec City. But it’s small.
But Quebec City is the setting for Frivolesque !
Play Vesoul by Jacques Brel on the legal but obscenely obsolete disk muzak
But…what if Montreal is farther away – which would be the case for me?
I’d actually LOVE to go visit Montreal rather than Paris, not that I ever was in Paris per se, but I saw Cannes and Nice, and I’d somehow prefer visiting another yet another country on the other side of the Atlantic than simply staying in Europe.
In your case: Ask for Europe, settle for Epcot.
I’ve been fortunate enough to visit both, and I like both. I did Montreal in November, stayed in a charming B&B, and loved walking the city Streets. Paris I was in just after New Years, and my wife and I hit every cafe and patisserie we could.
I’m headed to Stutgartt in a couple of weeks for work, hopefully I’ll have time to see (and eat) something cool.
IIRC ice-cream shops are as common as burger joints in the states or Tim Horton’s in Canada or It might be Munich that I am thinking of.
I never get drinking. Like, alcohol tastes like medicine. Even the tastiest alcoholic drinks would be fine without alcohol. Besides if I get drunk I’ll just make an ass out of myself. Like…maybe I’m in the minority but I can’t imagine getting super drunk and like…having a perfectly fun time and not hurting myself or others. Y’know, inhibitions help with the whole “being a nice person and also not breaking your legs thing”. And I ain’t got a lotta friends or legs as it stands (and as I stand since I currently still have legs)
The only time I ever drink much is I will have whiskey if I have a bad cough. It tends to help with that, or hiccups for that matter.
But then I won’t drink for like, weeks to months.
Yeah, I only drink if I’m about to have pervy sex. I used to go with wine, but now it’s Wild Turkey 101. Two ounces. Dilutants added. I mean, mixers.
Pretty much this. I mean, I’ve found alcohol that actually tastes good – or rather, stuff that tastes good despite the alcohol in it, but.. yeah.
I drink very little. Can’t stand beer or liquor, it has to be something like cider or a frou-frou drink that’s 80% sugar, and even then I’ll just have one, and I’m happy with zero.
Agree completely.
I can’t stand the taste of beer, so the rare times when I drink I usually go with wine coolers and similar fruity-tasting alcoholic drinks. Even then I usually don’t drink more than a bottle or two. I’ve found that I tend to be a happy drunk. If I got mean and nasty when drunk I probably would avoid drinking entirely.
You must be drinking the wrong cakeahol. Childhood birthday cakeahol is the best.
To me, ethanol is something you buy at 220 proof, and then place drilled chunks of human bone into it for short-term preservation. Not as effective as formaldehyde, but it’s also not as hazardous to work with.
Fun fact: after the bone sample has been in the ethanol for a while, the liquid takes on a slight yellow tint. Doesn’t look very appetizing, to say the least.
IIRC, Proof is 50% of the alcohol % in the distillate. Although you can get 200 proof/100% pure alcohol (Grain for ethanol), it evaporates heavily at room temperature. 196 proof (98% pure) is the highest stable distillate. I don’t think it’s possible to have 110% alcohol (or Spirit, enthusiasm or “being able to give.”).
Booze better than 200 proof exists only in fantasy games. (It’s called “Boink” and it’s named after the sound your face makes hitting the counter top.)
This is the exact reason why I got addicted to cannabis but not alcohol. Less nausea, different perception on things, no overdose risk…
Though instead of liver damage, you risk psychosis from overconsumption, among other things. No powerful substance isn’t risky.
*”daily consumption over years or decades”. My bad.
I’m avoiding it (largely due to being on antidepressants since I could legally drink) but have tasted wine and found it to resemble expired grape juice. Tried champagne once, fermented grape juice.
There are some people that really like the taste of alcohol. I agree with you, but I also hate coffee, and plenty of people like that. It’s a personal taste thing
I thought no one liked the taste of coffee and people only consumed it for the magical ability to fill you with life in the morning. As someone unaffected by caffeine I still don’t understand.
I occasionally only drink with friends and that’s only once or twice a year
Same. Though I accidentally drank gin as a grade schooler and immediately spat it out across a table so that may have put me off for the most part.
My uncle gave my youngest cousin (who was somewhere in the 4-6 range iirc) a sip of his beer once, because he figured his kid would be grossed out and not ask to have his dad’s drink anymore. Cousin took a big sip and asked for his own.
I like dehydrating my brain!
I’m from a family of alcoholics and literally have had like one beer in my entire life which I sipped the entire time. However, I don’t judge people who are able to manage it as my closest friend loved drinking as a social activity and never let it dominate his life.
Ive also only had beer once. My brother knows I don’t drink (and that it’s not because I had to go sober) and when we were out once he was like ‘hey I got a fancy beer just have a sip’ and I did and was like ‘that’s… tolerable’ and that’s when he really got that it’s not my thing.
I have friends who say MmM aLcOhOl when pouring the drinks and getting drunk, but will be honest and say that sake and vodka are actually nasty when we’re chatting about alcohol online and they’re sober, at like, 3 AM. They make these disgusting mixed drinks (no amount of grenadine can cover the taste of vodquila), because they don’t know any better. Whatever gets them drunkest, fastest, to enable them to get rid of inhibitions that cause social anxiety for them. It’s a two for the price of one kind of problem – some of them don’t believe that there’s any way for them to function socially except drunk, which feels like an unaddressed concern because of how much more they’ve needed to drink and how often they get smashed in the process.
And then there are people who actually like alcohol. Or at least some alcohols.
Beer and wine taste disgusting to me, but I’ll happily sip a shot of good vodka – and then stop and not even get drunk, so it’s not just about getting smashed fast.
Other friends really like Scotch, which I’m not fond enough of to pay the ridiculous price for the good stuff.
See I am the opposite. I like beer and wine, and don’t touch the hard stuff. Hard stuff gets me too drunk too quick and it burns.
ALSO the rule someone else suggested about never drinking when you’re feeling bad is words to live by, especially if you know you have addictive tendencies (hi).
oh man do I hate wine
I don’t like most alcohol -and- I don’t like being drunk. I spend three quarters of the time in recursive self-analysis of my drunken state, and the other quarter doing bad John Wayne impersonations.
I never got it either. I’ve had tastes of alcohol (eg liqueurs for recipes, homemade irish cream, etc), and drank champagne at a couple weddings, but drinking for fun never seemed like it would actually be fun, so I never did. Then I also realized my mom’s an alcoholic and I started taking meds that can’t go with alcohol and married someone who’s had some really upsetting things wrt alcohol happen with his family/friends, so I was like cool, almost all the pressure is gone. The only thing that ever makes me want to drink is taste curiousity.
(hopefully obviously, all this is seperate from the comic, I get why Billie and Ruth drink and that they’re alcoholics)
yeah, alcohol never caught on for me either. usually, it gets me sleepy or grumpy, and as for social inhibitions: it takes away the feeling of “oh shit i want to belong, how can i not be awkward?!?“ and replaces it with “naah… whatever, i don’t care about people“. The most fun i have while slightly drunk (i never get more than slightly drunk because when i’m a little drunk, i lose interest in drinking more because i already feel woozy) is when i’m by myself and building stuff. Once i built a shelf and just kept laughing at myself for being clumsy and dropping the screw driver all the time. or walking around being clumsy. it’s fun. but not enough fun and so antisocial that i really have no incentive to drink. hot spiced wine in winter is a yummy thing, but sometimes i just make non-alcoholic ones because it’s just as nice. Soo… really not m drug! 😀
Huh. I’d heard there was more than booze in Europe. My bad.
Oh, Billie, honey, no.
Clearly Billie wanted to recreate the movie “World’s End”
More than booze in Epcot, too, for that matter.
Last time I went to Epcot, France had excellent crepes. I suspect the same might be true of the one in Europe, too.
Well, sure, there’s all the rich history…
…. that’s overflowing with booze and all about bad decisions made while booze was pretty much the only drink that wouldn’t kill you. NM.
. . . So I never really thought this but why the hell is Billie so into getting drunk and drinking alcohol? I’ve been drinking since I was a little kid, parents let me try their drinks so that I wouldn’t be curious, and today I can barely drink a single fruity drink once a week and can’t stand the taste of any kind of beer.
Guessing we’re going to find out, and it’s not going to be anything great. Most we really know about her past is that she’s been an alcoholic since highschool, that her parents, or at least her dad, are very distant, and that she has issues with defining herself as a person, seemingly.
Also Billie seems like someone who peaked in high school and iis also kind of a narcissist who really isn’t that great at understanding the needs of others.
She’s been out of highschool less than a calendar year, so I think it’s less that she peaked there already, and more like she is aware of the danger she may have.
Also, that highschool wasn’t as big a high for her as she had thought, as being confronted with the reality by Alice implies.
Billie has these things that she wants to get rid of. They’re annoying always holding her back. They’re called Inhibitions
and her braand it seems that Alcohol helps her get rid of both of those.Because she is physically and psychologically addicted to it.
Because she has an addiction. She’s an alcoholic. You must have heard of this before.
We don’t know why she started to drink but we know why she does now: she is an alcoholic. She uses the depression juice for temporary relief from the brain thoughts that make her feel bad. I’ve never gotten into alcohol (tastes like burning and poison to me whereas ironically, poisons may have less taste than that) but, for people with neglectful parents like Billie, it allows them to pretend things are okay for a while when they are absolutely trashed and not thinking clearly.
I expect the reason she started drinking to excess is was because it’s part and parcel with the whole “Head Cheerleader HBIC” image she depends on to find validation in the face of neglectful parents and a rather unpleasant personality that drives people away.
A valid point. She likely started because her friends and older people did then started to use it whenever she felt bad.
Hmmm alcohol is often used unconsciously as self-medication… You’re feeling super bad because something bad happened? Get wasted and forget abt it! You’re in immense pain? Get wasted and forget about it! You hate yourself so much that fifteen minutes alone with your thoughts make you want to die? Get wasted and forget abt it. Alcohol makes the pain go away, although it usually comes back later with a vengeance.
Also: you’re awkward and don’t know how to talk to people? You have desires you don’t know how to express while sober? Alcohol makes you act stupid, but part of that stupidity is acting swiftly on your desires, talking to everyone without inhibitions. I remember when I started drinking one of my common thoughts was “I was never my true self before now”.
I wonder how much of Billie’s personality is trying to be who she is while drunk. I’ve met people (myself included, for a while) who thought they were their best selves while drunk. From what we know, Billie never even went on a date! But she had a lot of sexual experiences, I mean party-Billie, drunk-Billie had that, I’m betting sober-Billie had never even kissed anyone before Ruth.
I mean, of course the #1 reason is she’s addicted. She can’t quite imagine a sober life. But since she still sees alcohol as a viable solution to life’s problems, she might not even realize that she’s physically addicted to it.
I just realized I forgot to add this very important note in my comment: the things alcohol tells you are lies. You are not your best self drunk. You feel super smooth but you’re actually a mess. You think you’re dealing with the pain but you’re only postponing it. You might be more honest abt some repressed parts of yourself, but you’re sacrifing many other parts of yourself to get that, and you can’t even fully explore the part of yourself that alcohol reveals. I used to have alcohol-induced bisexuality, and let me tell you, it pales in comparison with actual full-time bisexuality. You don’t fully enjoy things until you can enjoy them sober.
A little bit of alcohol can release some inhibitions and ease up the social anxiety, without making you a stupid jerk.
Too much throws you into the pattern you describe and it’s hard to keep the balance right.
This! This is bad.
No drinking, no Europe apparently.
Having known several European men, this is a bit like saying, “Give up the internet.”
But…manicures
Don’t worry, Ruth. With the advents of modern medicine, there’s a chance that eventually they’ll create an alcoholic beverage that has the same effect as your meds.
I don’t get the “no alcohol ever” bit. I’m on anti-depressant meds, SNRIs, big dose, and probably for the rest of my life. Alcohol is really inexpensive, because at 2 drinks I’m quite drunk, and at three I’m vomiting while watching the little men run around on the carpet. The label says “This medication may increase the effects of alcohol”. Yes, it does, a lot. It does not say “no alcohol ever”.
“Quite drunk” is exactly what Ruth is trying to avoid. She hates booze and hates being an alcoholic and hates loving an alcoholic. She doesn’t want to hit rock bottom ever again, and she doesn’t want to be what killed her parents. It’s not that she CAN’T have alcohol with her medication, it’s that she doesn’t WANT it. She wants to be sober, and she wants Billie to support her, preferably by following suit.
Ruth is an alcoholic. She knows if she drinks one, she’ll drink too many, it will reduce the effect of her meds and might lead to her doing something bad to herself. She is setting the limit for herself.
It’s like how I buy Chocolate cake and say I’ll only eat one slice. Then I realize I’ve eaten 8 slices in 20 minutes. I’m a cakeic. (Not a cakeaholic since I’m not addicted to cakeahol)
Well you can always switch to carrot cake. Ruth can switch to soda.
>carrot cake
HERESY.
Yeah.
You are definitely addicted to Cakeahol.
yeah, but since she’s an alcoholic, the treatment would then be rendered ineffective since she’d get even more wasted than before, which brought on all her problems.
also some antidepressant classes can be less compatible with alcohol than others, and do we know if she got antipsychotics? Those don’t mix well either.
It’d be in character for Ruth to adopt a hardline stance on alcohol and medication, because it’s more convenient for her if she can tell herself her she can’t drink: it gives her an excuse/motivation to not start drinking again, since she has an alcohol problem.
At the same time, you’re right: there’s an obvious issue with taking a depressant while trying to cure a depression, but it’s a somewhat extreme prognosis to suggest that she can’t ever drink: she probably will be able to in, at a guess, a few years time. (I mean, if she were a real person: since she’s fictional she’ll be able to drink when Willis says so.)
(There’s also MAOIs, which tend to react badly to most alcoholic drinks, but if that was the issue Ruth would be going “because my blood pressure would rise and I would literally die and not dying is the entire fucking point”.)
Ruth doesn’t like the fact that she drinks. Ruth doesn’t want to be a person who drinks. Having a convenient rule that says she can’t ever drink is good for her.
Speaking as a person who is probably a genetic alcoholic from a family of them, I adopted the, “Not even once” policy. Complete abstinence of alcohol seems safer than testing my limits.
It’s a fantasy med with fantasy requirements. It doesn’t mix with alcohol.
Also, being depressed is kind of normal for drinking alcoholics. Trying to cure a depression and not stopping to drink doesn’t work that well for them.
It’d be nice to have a realistic portrayal of depression and its treatment in fiction, though.
Given that several people here have commented on how it does match their instructions, I’m not sure how unrealistic it is.
There are a lot of different meds and they can easily have different restrictions.
Probably best not to name a particular real med and get bogged down in the detailed portrayal of how that one works though.
Especially since “that one med” would work differently for different people, anyway. The whole reason those of us on depression/anxiety meds get jumped around until something works is because no one med works the same on all people.
I was doing research on antidepressants for a story once and I found a bunch that said not to take with alcohol – risks ranged from drowsiness to death from spiking blood pressure.
Mine does say no alcohol ever (as do my blood sugar meds), and I’ve seen several others that do the same, so I think in this case you’re just lucky. 😛 And it’s not, in the case of mine, that it increases the effects of alcohol, it’s that (as far as I understand it) the alcohol, as a depressant, negates the effects of the antidepressant.
Like Ruth said yesterday: The meds (that have not have time to really kick in) make her want to stay alive and alcohol would counteract those meds.
Ruth decided she wants to live and does want she sees as necessary to do that.
Not all meds work that way. I was on seizure meds and I was definitely told ‘no alcohol ever.’
Point is, Ruth already knows how bad alcohol is for her (she’s an alcoholic!); she basically knows she can’t drink in moderation.
So why should she drink any alcohol at all when that just risks spiralling into what it did last time?
Also, not drinking alcohol really isn’t like forfeiting all fun in life or anything. It’s fine. It’s not even a big deal in itself. I’m having plenty of fun without alcohol. I can totally see that many people want to drink some alcohol, they are happy and have no problems drinking, and that’s fine. But it’s also totally fine to never drink, and it’s not an extreme way to live your life either, although so many people seem to think it is.
So when I was younger I didn’t read my short term medication closely – apparently I wasn’t supposed to drink for three days AFTER ending it. Guess who got alcohol poisoning from ONE drink and actively thought they were in the process of dying? My dumbing of ass…
Finally, Billie has arrived at a fork in the road. She can either choose alcohol or Ruth.
As a counterpoint, Ruth’s an alcoholic who uses drinking as a coping mechanism. She may not have your self control to stop at one, two, or even three. A friend of mine was on strong anti-depressants while also being an alcoholic, and he went to the hospital twice because it during the year I knew him.
(It looks like this might have posted to the wrong comment; it was meant for the comment suggesting that Ruth could safely drink on anti-depressants.)
Yeah, but that’s a separate issue that has little to do with the antidepressants.
There’s more to Europe than just alcohol, Billie. The proud kingdom of the Netherlands for example has a ton of legalized weed.
Man that sounds dope.
Can’t stand the smell of weed. Just good old fashioned harmless alcohol for me pleaee.
Actually, the only drug that kills more people than alcohol is cigarettes. Harmless?
I’m joking of course
No drug is completely harmless. Even caffeine, which most people would never consider as a drug, might be linked to the rising incidence of insomnia in Western nations (it’s likely not the SOLE factor, since other things like bad sleep patterns and bluelight devices that mess with our circadian rhythms also contribute, but the high consumption of caffeine in most Western nations can’t be ruled out). The fact that so many people go “Oh, I can’t function without my morning cup of coffee” and see no problem with that statement is actually quite alarming.
It’s an acquired smell/taste. Like how you either love or hate the taste of beer.
And tulips you can see from SPACE!
https://www.earth.com/image/famous-tulip-fields-netherlands/
My friend Kyle does point out a large amount of the fun of travel is enjoying the various bars of countries as well as getting pissed on them. Then again he IS European and alcohol is a national sport where he’s from.
Yeah, that got me in trouble one of the times I visited. Too much too fast, and my wife had to hold me up while we made our way back to the hotel. After that, it was only beers, cheese, and ossenwurst (oh! the ossenwurst!)
No need to go to Europe for that these days. Michigan is a lot closer.
Yeah, but it’s currently still way easier in the Netherlands– and probably other states in the US. We (Michigan) are still in the “fighting over how this will work” stage.
Last time I drank alcohol on meds it was less than half a hard orange soda. I passed out, slept for about 14 hours, and when I woke up trump had been elected.
So I never drink any alcohol, ever.
ROBBIE WHAT DID YOU DO!!!?
We need to invent a time machine so we can go back in time and prevent Robbie from drinking on that day.
I was wondering who’s fault this was.
ROBBIE!
IT WAS YOU. You go back, and you step on a butterfly, and you make it RIGHT.
Welp, it’s been over two years and we finally have the answer.
Im sorry y’all. I will go back in time and throw out the hard orange sodas, just as soon as the Doctor arrives to transport me back.
Or any of you can do it – that might be safer than me interfering in my own timeline.
Our timeline seems fragile enough already without any huge paradoxes.
It’s not your fault – it’s obvious that we live in a “bad future” scenario due to SOMEONE’S meddling in time *eyes Doctor suspiciously*
Yeah, we’re pretty clearly in the bad place.
Maybe because it was a hard ORANGE soda? Maybe another flavor could have had different electoral results? XD
You mean Hillary? …. conscription reinstated ….
Bernie? …. how long before he would be added to the list with Lincoln et al?
All of a sudden the orange NY Business Gambling magnate doesn’t seem so bad…. this timeline really is messed up.
It still seems so bad.
Particularly since the supposed alternative is right-wing paranoia. Clinton bringing back conscription was a fake news conspiracy theory and if the Secret Service kept Obama alive, they could have kept Sanders that way too.
Conscription seems highly unlikely. War with North Korea, not so much.
If we’d elected Clinton? Not sure why.
She probably doesn’t want to mess with her neurochemistry any more than she had to. I drink, but there are certain substances that I will not touch any more because I got sick of spiraling in my early twenties. If alcohol is unhealthy for her (or any real people for that matter) then that’s something to respect.
Right. I’m a proud consumer of alcohol(but not to the point of getting drunk), but having known alcoholics, I say if it hurts you(physically, psychologically, outwardly) then you shouldn’t drink(same for any addictive/abusive substance really).
Ruth hates alcohol because it killed her parents.
Billie loves alcohol because it makes her not think about her parents.
Oh wow. Seriously, Billie is being so freaking dumb right now…
Right? It’s like she’s working at being an idiot.
It’s not so much Billie’s being dumb as she’s being selfish. She’s unconsciously admitting to caring about Ruth only as a crutch and a codependent so Billie doesn’t have to confront herself and where she is now as opposed to Ruth, who knows that alcohol is actively bringing her down and may ultimately kill her (directly or indirectly) and wants to actually do the hard work of getting better.
I think she legitimately cares about and has strong feelings for Ruth, but she also has Alice as an ex, and that sounds like it didn’t go super great. Not shocked that she hasn’t really learned how to have a healthy relationship yet.
Not even really dumb or selfish – she’s being an addict. And in denial about it. She’s going to have to admit that and deal with it, but it was never going to be easy.
Billie and Ruth don’t have much in common other than drinking and self-hate.
Ruth for whatever reason isn’t down with either anymore.
They’re going to break up on Valentine’s day aren’t they? 🙁
Valentines? It isn’t even Halloween yet.
Yeah, we mean real world Valentine’s Day.
I feel like we won’t be on a scene with these two all the way until V day. And I doubt we’ll scene hop then come right back, sooo, who else can we have sad relationship stuff happen with on V day?
Oh, there’s lot’s of options. Walky and Amber for one, though I’m hoping W. throws us a curve and V day shows their relationship picking back up. But there could easily be a very sad strip between them as well.
I was under the impression that a lot of anti-depression medicatio is supposed to slowly stabilize your hormonic problems so you can, eventually, slowly, stop taking them.
That’s what happened with me, after all. my doctor slowly lowered the dose and then had me taking the lowered dose less days a week until we eliminated it.
You’re a very lucky person, then, and I’m glad for you. But it’s not so much that anti-depressants work that way. What actually happens is that for some people, their depression comes from external causes; and so, the meds are to help them get through them until they’re eased (always coupled with therapy, tho, they aren’t to be taken alone). For other people, depression is endogenous. There’s something in the brain chemistry that isn’t letting them breathe, either by genetics, hardcore trauma, or both; and for them, meds have to be taken permanently.
Or, in at least one case: After a specific set of really horrible recent stuff, being diagnosed with Major Depression, and exercise wasn’t helping.
Within hours after the first Wellbutrin pill: “Hey, the world has colors again, and is three dimensional!”
About nine months later (with minimal therapy), a sudden transition from “Each pill tops up the good/normal feeling” to “each pill causes agitation and mild sick feeling – must be time to quit.”
And then tapering off faster than the doctor recommended, and being fine.
This happened to someone I know well and trust completely. Obviously it’s not how antidepressants usually work, but it is possible.
Please do not take this anecdote as a justification to ignore doctor’s advice when it comes to medication dosage. It’s a bad idea.
Just so you know…those tapers aren’t recommended because of something that will 100%, absolutely definitely happen. They’re recommended because of something that has unacceptably high odds of happening.
All I’m saying is, ignoring the advice to taper and not getting hurt by it doesn’t translate to “the doctor was wrong”, but rather “the doctor didn’t want to gamble, the patient chose to, and fortunately the gamble went well.” Which is all fine and well, so long as the person *actually understands* the gamble they’re taking, but more often than not, they don’t.
Also, psych meds definitely *can* work that fast, but usually if they do, it’s a bad sign and most docs will switch you *off* a med that kicks in too rapidly. However, that’s always balanced against how dangerous the state that the person was in prior to initiating the meds. But basically, the transition your friend eventually saw is not that unexpected, given their initial overreaction to the drug. The other concern would have been setting off an undiagnosed bipolar disorder and triggering mania…which is the primary reason a too-good response to meds generally results in a med change.
TL;DR there’s a LOT more going on beneath the surface in these medication decisions than what the doc is able to describe in the short interview. These things aren’t common, but they aren’t inexplicable, either, and I promise that doctors generally have a lot more thought processes underlying their advice than they necessarily explain.
Yeah, tapering is important. My doctor tried to reduce my migraine meds too fast, and it messed me up so much I thought I’d broken a rib, and then had trouble getting to the doctor’s office because I couldn’t make sense of the buses. My head was a mess for weeks. Even when we went slower after that, I was still a mess, but it was manageable.
And thank fuck that wasn’t one of the medications that gives worse withdrawal effects, like brain zaps.
Had to wean off seizure meds – yeah, it’s not fun. Sometimes going off your meds too fast CAN be really bad for you, or even deadly.
Well, external causes aren’t the only kind of depression that can be treated without being on meds forever. Stuff like CBT and DBT can retrain the brain quite a bit. Although there’s still no treatment that’s 100% effective on everyone.
There are some types of depression that work like that, usually because your brain has been screwed up by some other issue or because you have acute depression due to trauma/loss/something. Lots of folks have depression due to stuff we either don’t understand or can’t fix, and Ruth (being an abuse survivor) is likely firmly in the latter camp.
I… I don’t think Billie think she can quit alcohol. Addiction is a bongo, and she has never managed to make a serious effort. I think she hears Ruth breaking up with her 🙁
She’s never really considered that her problem is bad enough that she really should make an effort, though. Sure, there was was DUI that got her banned from cheerleading, but it’s not like she ever vanished and scared someone half-to-death by drinking herself helf-to-death, y’know? She’s not nearly as bad an alcoholic as Ruth, so clearly she can deal with it. Right?
It’s not that she’s never managed to make a serious effort as that I don’t think she’s ever really felt she needed to. She’s never actually tried, so we don’t know if she could — and neither does she.
I think you are completely right that she never seriously tried it – but I also think that she is convinced that she can’t do it.
On the other hand, Ruth was convinced she wouldn’t survive this semester. I hope both of them are wrong.
I don’t think Billie thinks she can’t do it; I really think she thinks she dosen’t need to; everything under control. I’m sure she thinks if she really needed to, she could stop, no problem. But why stop when everything’s fine?
She doesn’t even want therapy because that’d involve admitting that there is a problem at all.
Billie has not admitted that there is a problem anywhere.
Story time!
In my country, the local independence celebration lasts about a week. This is usually a whole week with no classes and very, VERY minimal work, unless you work a supermarket or retail.
So, back in my last year of high school, the week ends and on most day one of my classmates didn’t reappear.
He didn’t reappear until about a week later. Apparently, he had gone out partying with some friends on the 17th and woke up from the blackout drunkenness on the 20th, in a city about 800 miles away.
He took the week off to check his health and get supremely grounded for the rest of the year.
Most day*Monday.
Stupid autocorrect
I feel like panel one does a great job illustrating Billie’s mindset with both her and Ruth’s alcoholism. She’s putting a lot of energy into minimizing how serious it is for either of them. As long as it’s something that can be ‘fixed’, she doesn’t have to face the prospect of giving up drinking permanently. I mean, I have no idea how alcohol works, or antidepressants for that matter, and can’t say for sure whether either of them absolutely do have to give up drinking, but that mentality sure isn’t helping.
Of course, Billie’s also been so sweet and supportive of Ruth’s efforts to recover from her depression, so it’s kind of confusing to me, too. I guess that’s what’s keeping her from trying harder to deny that Ruth doesn’t need to give up drinking?
Ruth wants to absolutely give up drinking, and I think believes that having a medically induced ultimatum is possibly her best chance to do it. She really can’t keep using alcohol to treat her depression. It makes things worse.
Also this is emotionally harrowing and I’m on the edge of my seat but it’s downright uncomfortable how raw and direct the issues are here. I care for and empathize with these characters and seeing them in pain hurts.
(Especially because I’m terrified they’ll split and I just want to roll up in a thick blanket and be told depressed WLWs can stay together too – that we’re not doomed to be alone because we’re depressed and WLWs.)
I mean, you are a little doomed if you’re both addicts and one of you is trying hard to recover while the other is trying to drag you back down without realizing.
I just hope Ruth can move on to a healthy place in her life and get a nice, non self centered girl friend.
And I hope Billie can realize she has a problem and work to be a healthier person
There’s always the chance they’ll get back together. Or, alternatively, one or both will find another girlfriend who struggles with depression but without the alcoholism.
It’s not so much Billie’s being dumb as she’s being selfish. She’s unconsciously admitting to caring about Ruth only as a crutch and a codependent so Billie doesn’t have to confront herself and where she is now as opposed to Ruth, who knows that alcohol is actively bringing her down and may ultimately kill her (directly or indirectly) and wants to actually do the hard work of getting better.
Or even not that – I think she doesn’t think she CAN give up alcohol, doesn’t think she can be the person Ruth needs. With Ruth getting better and she staying in the same self-destructive place as always, she can’t be with Ruth any longer 🙁
At least they will always have the manicures
I actually feel a lot of empathy for Billie in this comic. I think she really likes Ruth, but she doesn’t know how to deal with that because it doesn’t fit with her “super awesome cheerleader” identity. And it’s an identity that she’s been both clinging to desperately and losing at the same time. The resurgence of people in her new dorm who are basically worshiping her cheerleader persona are not helping this struggle.
And she’s also losing one of her biggest coping mechanisms (alcohol) for her myriad of issues (which I’m sure we’ve only scratched the surface of). Beyond that, she really doesn’t know how to help Ruth here or how to deal with a person who has depression. Anger issues are easier for Billie, just fight ’em out.
Also, Billie’s main form of helping people is, it seems, to literally provide them with alcohol or bring out the cheerleader persona to give truly bad advice (see the conversation she had with Walky about his relationship problems). So, with all that in mind, Billie seems to be panicking in this strip and does what a lot of us do when feeling like we have no good options – she tells a stupid joke.
So, yeah, Billie is majorly fucking up here, but I feel for her. I really do.
I do too, but Billie needs to stop seeing the people in her life as facilitators to her ego or enablers for her self-indulgence and unwillingness to confront her problems.
This is one of the few times that the age difference between Ruth and Billie has really struck me — along with Ruth’s ‘I forgive you because I think you really need that’ strip while Billie was asleep. I know it’s not much of an age difference, but still. Adult vs. teenager.
A lot of growing can happen in 2 years. look at what people in this comic accomplish with 2 weeks.
Ruths maturity is a fairly recent thing given her beating up Billie to show she liks her.
I thought Ruth was only 19
Ruth is 20, Billie is 18. Both are adults, but Ruth’s been one for a bit longer.
Ay Ruth, we may have been the same age when I started reading 5 years ago but you’re more responsible than me. Just can’t give up social drinking even with my meds.
Lotta people chiming in about alcohol and depression and a lot of things right now. Lotta those people saying they don’t drink and don’t understand the appeal. I haven’t commented in a while, but I’m someone who deals with both of those things, and I feel the urge to add my two cents. Not entirely sure why. Maybe I feel like it’ll help the people saying “I don’t get it.” Maybe it’ll help the people dealing with the same shit.
I’ve had issues with depression my whole life. It was only in college that I understood what it was. Before I understood, I used drinking to deal with it.
Alcohol makes you feel good. When you feel bad all the time, and you don’t understand why, it’s really easy to start using that as a crutch. Especially when you feel bad all the time because of chemicals in your brain. When that’s why you feel bad, there isn’t much that will make you feel good besides more chemicals. And booze is cheaper than pills. Probably lucky I only have an alcohol addiction to deal with. It’s really fucking easy to get addicted. You use that substance to relieve yourself from something once. And it works really well. It can be depression, or stress from your job, or the stress from your wedding, or the stress from dealing with your mother-in-law who you hate so very much, and you wish she would stop emotionally abusing your wife and also you, or maybe something else. But it works. It works very well. So you keep doing it because you are human. Part of our survival instinct is recognizing when something makes life easier and using it more and more. But your dumb monkey-brain doesn’t realize that chemicals are a thing that your brain can grow to depend on, even if your smart human-brain does. Soon, you can only feel good when you have that chemical.
When you’re addicted to something, that substance controls your whole life. Period. It’s your first thought. When I wake up, I start thinking about when my next drink will be and how I’ll acquire it. Even though I’m trying to quit. I keep thinking about when the next time I’ll “allow” myself to drink will be. When there’s something I want to do, be it an event or just playing video games at home, alcohol comes first. My enjoyment has to come through that lens. I can, technically, enjoy things without booze. But I don’t remember how to conceptualize that.
Billie, here, makes complete sense to me. She’s an alcoholic and has been one for a long time. She doesn’t know how to enjoy something without alcohol. Or at least views enjoyment of things she likes through the lens of alcohol consumption. It’s not that she doesn’t love Ruth or want to be with her. It’s just hard for her to conceive of her relationship with Ruth without viewing it through the lens of drinking. She’s not trying to sabotage Ruth’s recovery. She just doesn’t really know how to picture a future without alcohol. Or how to imagine the joy of a relationship when it isn’t filtered through the lens of at least occasional intoxication. It doesn’t make her a bad person. At least I hope it doesn’t, or I’m a bad person. It makes her someone who fell into a very easy trap.
Or maybe I’m projecting.
Fuck, I dunno, I’m drunk.
Addendum: Not saying no one should ever drink alcohol because it will ruin your life. A lot of people can drink in moderation and feel fine.
What I am saying is that using alcohol as a medication for other bad feelings is very tempting when you have them a lot and you know what it will do.
Simple rule I think helps: Never drink when you’re sad, angry, stressed, frustrated, etc. Only drink when you already feel good and you’re just trying to enjoy life. Not a perfect rule. Very good loophole for alcoholics to abuse. But I dunno. I feel like it might help people not end up like me.
Hey, Wakizashi-Flamberge! I was wondering if you were still around. Glad to see you’re still with us. 🙂
I’m honestly surprised anyone noticed. I’ve still been reading. Kinda crawled into a hole a while ago. Just starting to poke my head out again.
Welcome back and you have written very important words.
“I keep thinking about when the next time I’ll ‘allow’ myself to drink will be.”
Damn, that one hit me hard.
Well, at least now we know a little about Billie’s life goals: A world-spanning pub-crawl seems to have been the plan at least for some point post-graduation! It will be interesting to see if Billie is capable of a relationship where social and heavy drinking isn’t an essential part of it!
In terms of Ruth and Billie’s relationship, I’ve got to say that the signs look bad.
More to the point, I think Billie’s goal is a world that doesn’t change. She will always be the popular cheer leader, she and Ruth will always have their self-destructive relationship (without getting to the actual ‘destruction’ part). She will never have to confront her many faults.
She is a lot like Walky in that regard.
After Ruth was taken in to hospital it was clear for her that she needed to change (since ‘die’ suddenly felt less attractive). Billie didn’t get that message. She thought they got a second chance to just keep doing what they did before.
With Ruth trying to change and Billie trying to stay the same, that’s a… problematic foundation for their relationship.
It would be a pretty respectable decision. I feel Billie’s coping mechanism would probably be… Lots of drinking.
I always felt Billie’s ripping into Carla was because in part, it forced Ruth to be treated and the darkness into the light.
It brought attention to Billie’s problems.
Ruth in the last panel: “Not sure if she’s still pressuring me, or making a shittily time joke. Need more info to decide whether I beat her with one or both of her femurs”
Billie, did you even watched Euro Trip (that movie is dumb by the way). There are many things you can do in Europe without alcohol: fight a fake robot, have sex with Ruth in a Vatican confession room, eat brownies that don’t have drugs, be tortured by stereotypes of BDSM practioners… okay, not that one.
Why do I feel Ruth is going to break with Billie soon?
I’m pretty sure BILLIE feels Ruth just did.
Boat tours and castles. That’s plenty of reason to go to Denmark at least. (but I’m a Dane, so I’m biased.)
I will be honest – as a Swede I mostly go to Denmark for the beer.
(And Legoland!)
And for the mountains of cou… Oh, right. sorry… * smug smirk *
(Shut up, Norway)
We have one tiny mountain and it’s doing its best.
Another swede here. I’m afraid I go to Denmark mostly for the beer as well.
Well we do have quality beer as well.
(Shut up, Norway)
Huh, meant as a selfburn about relative availability of mountains in Scandinavia, in my increasingly stupid chain of comments to KSClaw above. As a stand-alone comment I suppose it is about… EU. Yeah, let’s go with that.
Hey, don’t dis Norway. They were ready to give Finland one of their mountains to celebrate Finland’s 100th year of independence. (slight border adjustment — couldn’t really do that for Denmark.)
That’s STYLE!
Pfft, like you were gonna go to Europe at the current rate of comic time anyway.
If time goes slowly enough, there is never time for tragedy to strike!
Unless they go in France. It’s always time to strike for us (and we still often have less strike days that germans, but only few people know it)
Well since they’re not coming to Europe I guess Europe is coming to them. Shame you can’t hear the funny accents in the comments, ’cause that’s the best part about backpacking across Europe as Americans: you get to try out a new brand of English every few hundred kilometers.
europe and america will be physically connected again by the time she graduates
Seems to me that Ruth is facing a first aid type thing where the first duty is to look after yourself first.
So Ruth has to ask herself if Billie will help or hinder her chances of getting better,
“Fix you”?
This is the first time that I’ve actually had outright rage towards Billie. “Fix you”? This just changes their entire relationship in my eyes, including her view of the near-suicide. I have no sympathy for Billie anymore. None.
She’s as bad as Mary.
No, Billie just has her head stuck in her behind and is an alcoholic. She’s not intentionally malicious.
Mary enjoys hurting people.
As CJ said, Billie is an alcoholic. To add to that, she probably didn’t realize what Ruth being on meds meant til panel 3, and may still not fully understand – people don’t get what meds for mental issues can mean. They think it’s like taking two advil and being better in the morning
Now if Billie doubles down? THEN you can start lining her up with Mary. Right now though, the final panel feels more like her brain locking up and saying something stupid in shock
This is consistent with how both Billie and Ruth have been discussing Ruth’s depression this entire time. Without the context, it’d be an awful thing to say, in context, it’s just how they talk, IMO.
I mean, if you take it out of context like that, yeah it sounds terrible. “Can we fix your suicidal depression” though is not an unreasonable stance. Unless you’re implying Ruth’s entire personality is the fact that she’s suicidally depressed, in which case, they need to break up because that’s unhealthy for Billie.
Personally, being drunk is the only time the constant noise in my brain shuts up. I can actually stop and think about just one thing, instead of every bit of information around me. It’s honestly more effective at helping my anxiety than any of the medications I’ve ever been on.
The problem is, because of my parents, I’m extremely susceptible to addiction. As honestly fantastic as I feel when I’ve had a few drinks, I know it’s a massive risk every single time. And so, I very rarely ever drink at all, and then only around people who I trust to take it away when I hit a certain limit. So far, that’s been a good system, and nobody’s been hurt.
All of this to say, Billie could probably stand to have a friend around to keep an eye on her, if she absolutely insists on continuing to drink. Sometimes, you flat-out can’t stop someone from doing something they want to do, but you can at least try to keep them from taking it too far.
I don’t know, maybe I’m way off, here. Billie is a much more assertive personality than me, after all.
Billie is a) already a bona fide alcoholic who drinks constantly and b) has no respect for anyone having authority over her or the concept that someone could know better than her. It’s really not a comparable situation. Also, it’s really not fair to anyone to expect them to be her babysitter.
Billie being asked to give up drinking by a partner is a perfectly valid reason to end a relationship….were it not killing Billie slowly. Drinking is a safe hobby for a lot of people but it isn’t for Billie.
For fuck’s sake dude she isn’t even being asked to do that stop harping on it it’s getting incredibly annoying watching you try to die on this hill that doesn’t even exist.
Um….yeah, I think the giving up drinking is implicit.
*check Patreon*
A) Dude, don’t make references to the next strip. It’s a dick move.
B) No. Ruth has never asked Billie to give up drinking. BILLIE is the one assuming this means she has to do that because Ruth DARED to tell her to stop offering alcohol, so now she’s exaggerating to be guilt trippy.
Okay, that last bit about guilt tripping is unfair. She hasn’t gotten that far yet. The point is though, BILLIE is the one asserting she needs to stop drinking. That’s not something Ruth said.
So many people who drink, even non alcoholics get so threatened by the idea of someone not drinking sometimes and think you saying you can’t/won’t is a moral judgement saying they shouldn’t either, so I’m not shocked Billie leapt to that conclusion
I’m gonna be charitable and assume it’s less that she thinks Ruth expects it of her and more that she’s trying to be supportive. She’s not doing an amazing job but I’d like to think she’s making an effort here.
I’d like to think that’s what she means too.
You make a good point. I was gonna say that I wasn’t calling for someone to babysit Billie, but yeah, that’s pretty much what it would take. She really sort of can’t be trusted with herself, right now.
Yeah, it’s not so much an “accompany her when she goes to the bar” gig as it is a “regularly search every space she frequents to make sure she hasn’t stashed alcohol there” gig.
Antidepressants do not work that way! Goodnight!
[/Morbo]
Depends on your meds.
And your depression. I’m of the variety that will almost certainly have another episode, even on meds – there’s never been a time in the ten years since I went on them that we seriously considered going off them and not having a replacement. (It also runs in the family – I have multiple relatives whose default for years is ‘on antidepressants’.)
About the no alcohol, as pointed out Ruth is an alcoholic looking to quit because the drinking feeds into her self-loathing loop. (She hates herself, then she hates herself because she drinks, so she drinks more and then she hates herself and…) ‘My meds don’t let me’ is a really good excuse to keep social pressure off, even if it’s not entirely true. Especially since Ruth’s depression ended up going extremely public, at least in their dorm.
That’s pretty much exactly how mine work? I mean I might not be on the same ones forever because maybe a different med or combination will work better, and new formulas may come available, but I can expect to be on some kind of antidepressant forever. I’ve been on some kind for my entire adult life.
I meant this more as a response to Billie’s “just take it once and it will fix you and everything will be fine” attitude. Remember when she visited Ruth in the hospital?
Aaaah, yes. Billie definitely doesn’t understand depression as a chronic illness with chronic treatment, agreed. (I mean Billie also doesn’t recognize SHE’S got some less dramatic but still present depression issues going on too, so not surprising.)
One very obvious similarity between Billie and her sorta-foster brother Walky: She tries to defuse tension with badly thought-out wisecracks. I suppose it’s a kind of attempted deflection but I don’t think that this will work with Ruth.
Billie, panel 4, trying a different approach.
Tomorrow’s first panel, Ruth: that’s not gonna work on me this time!
Even without medications complicating things further, that’s how alcoholism works. No alcohol. Ever.
It isn’t like a diet where you can just say “I’ll stick to the diet guidelines.” Because the whole reason you’re an alcoholic is because you can’t stick to the ‘diet’ guidelines.
backpacking from winery to winery, i like that.
Sounds really fun!
I don’t think I’ve ever wanted a fictional couple to break up as badly as I want Billie and Ruth to. They’re *not good* for each other, and they never have been. I really, REALLY hope this is the point where at least one of them realizes that.
I’m surprised that they didn’t have this conversation until now. Mostly on Ruth’s part, because we know not to expect too much from Billie.
Up until VERY recently Ruth’s relationship goals were somewhere in the ballpark of “live in denial for a little while until I die”.
Billie is still there (although for her ‘die’ is replaced with ‘fuck up beyond salvage and my whole world collapses around me’)
You mean, that Ruth is able to have this conversation is a sign of the medicines starting to kick in. Makes sense.
Honestly, as a person who has dealt with self injury (which has a component of psychological addiction) and who has a family history of addiction, all or nothing approach never worked for me. I would be good for a long time, screw up, then binge it because fuck it I ruined it anyway so why not.
For me, addictive behaviors always remained until I improved my mental health and coping strategies. Not saying that is the case for all folks with addiction, just that for me 12 step style black and white thinking was actively counter-productive because it fed into my existing mental health issues and tendencies towards black and white absolutism and obsessive tendencies. Once I learned to challenge the thought patterns that led me to spiral and better coping mechanisms, my psychological addiction to self injury went away. For me, it was a coping mechanism and once I had better tools, I didn’t need it anymore. Furthermore, before I was ready to stop, the harder I tried, the worse it got…
I guess my point is not everyone benefits from abstinence programs for addiction. I didn’t. It made me worse. And that the mental health, moderation and coping skills approach helps some folks. I know because I am one. I haven’t self injured in 7 years – but not because I tried to quit. Because I worked on my mental health so that I didn’t need it anymore.
Again, not saying that the abstinence method isn’t a good approach. It can be great if it works for you. More saying it wasn’t the approach that worked for me, and too many people seem to think it’s the only approach.
Drop her Ruth, she’s just not worth it.
If the alcohol isn’t “just” your attempt to medicate the unmedicatable but has also become your ride-or-die buddy, you’re essentially deadweight in any relationship. Go work on yourself, Billie. Or at least get out of her way.
The thing that has struck me throughout this whole mini-arc so far is the way Billie keeps on pausing and shooting Ruth this pleading look as if she’s begging her to back down. It’s a remarkably child-like thing to do. I’m not saying that as a criticism of her but as an observation about her mindset. I wonder how many times she’s got her own way with her parents by looking at them pleadingly in a way that communicates that her happiness depends on it?
Time for someone to break through that stare and rub some harsh reality into Billy’s face. Otherwise she’ll stay on her self-destructive course.
That’s a good observation.
Yes that makes sense so good on Ruth for not falling for it
The sadder and more charitable view of those looks: realizing the full scale of the problem affecting a person she loves and breaking a little. Because who does she love besides herself, walky and Ruth?
Maybe Billie should get on those meds too, give her more of an incentive to sty sober.
Bad, bad, bad idea. I’m not sure if Ruth is on antidepressants, antipsychotics, a mood stabilizer, or what exactly, but taking any of those without an express need is a terrible idea. Not only can they have some nasty side effects even to those who do need them, but they have really negative effects on healthy minds.
If the goal is sobriety, unless there’s an underlying disorder, behavioral therapy and support groups are the best option. In fact, I’d recommend a group like AA or NAMI to both Billie and Ruth so they can A) learn more about mental illness and addiction, and B) experience recovery together.
Billie needs therapy – and had been set up with appointments that she’s blowing off.
Whether that would lead to some form of prescription or not is up in the air.
Yeah, there was an arc ages ago (like, pre-suicide pact I think) that established Billie likely has some depressive issues herself. But you DON’T treat those by palming someone else’s for like seventeen different reasons. And I don’t think Billie realizes that she has any problems, depression or alcoholism or elsewise.
I meant go to a doctor and get her own prescription not take Ruth’s . I think she would certainly be able to find a doctor willing to prescribe her given the issues she has exhibited.
I don’t know. I don’t think she’s nearly so far gone as Ruth was.
And I certainly wouldn’t give her anything that could be bad combined with alcohol – because Billie isn’t going to stop drinking that easily.
I would think anyone who would make a suicide pact would be in enough trouble to justify meds. But I guess it is true that Billie would likely try drinking while on meds anyway.
I think both are true– she’s not as far gone as Ruth was, but still at a place that medication would be a valid option. If she could be responsible with it.
I have almost nothing in common with Billie besides bisexuality, but damn if she doesn’t look and sound exactly like me when my older, wiser friend gently suggested I take three months off from drinking. “Then what is the fucking POINT?!” screamed my brain.
Billie, friend, you gotta get to a goddamn therapist in addiction.
Hey. at least that means Billie wants to backpack with her after graduating
Nooooo goodbye my disastership
Oof. I see how people can be hella mad at Billie but also I can relate. I know Ruth’s not asking her but if someone mentioned to me “no caffiene ever” I’d have a blue screen of death that would last days followed by lots of crying.
I have Bipolar disorder and sometimes a soda or coffee is what I need to care about or be excited about anything
Not healthy but..yeah.
Still Billie needs to understand how important this is to Ruth.
This comic is very “me: + also me:”
So the only reason for going to Europe was to drink?
How callow and stupid.
I have known people like Billie. Some managed to pull themselves up and into recovery after having their asses kicked by life too many times. Some wound up with not so happy endings.