No, I’m pretty sure the alt-text is referring to the Weekend Update segment “Point/Counter-Point” with Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd, in which both took potshots at each other for promiscuity and/or inability to get laid. Akroyd would always start with “Jane, you ignorant slut…”
I don’t recognize the SNL quote mentioned, so I’m guessing it must be from the time when SNL sucked. (i.e. – anytime after 1995). If you disagree with that statement, go back and watch the original cast’s skits from 1975 – 1980 first, comparing them to more recent stuff.
Joyce’s problem better be that she thinks Walky was having pre-marital hanky panky with Amber before he broke up with Dorothy, because if her problem is him getting over the break-up too soon, when she was just trying to make them get together specifically for that purpose, I’ll be cross
It’s the most tactically advantageous position! Sarah will repel Joyce as though she were a magnet with the same polarity, and he’s so close to Sarah that she’ll have trouble hitting him with the baseball bat.
Walky has obviously given this some thought. Now Sarah can’t help but see the logic of his position and Joyce is the last person who can complain about an invasion of her room.
Walky is not allowed to choose his sex partners. If he expresses any agency at all about being with Dorothy, breaking up wirh her or moving on without Joyce’s say so, he’s total scum.
This is because he hasn’t seen enough to Romcoms to who and when he is supposed to. Joyce has, thats why he can date Amber when Joyce says so, and Joyce can lust after partnered people. and probably something about Jesus
wasn’t there even a strip where Joyce reasoned that if it was God’s will that Joyce should be with Jacob then it was okay to pursue him while he was dating Raidah…?
Of course she does! As a saved person her mind is by definition in perfect synch with God’s, which means that anything she wants to do is God’s will and thus she is exempt from law and morality.
To be fair to her, while Joyce’s code of conduct and expectations of others are thoroughly irrational and deeply hypocritical, she’s reasonably good at recognizing this when it’s pointed out to her, and changing her attitudes.
She’s not CONSCIOUSLY a hypocrite, and tries to stop when you tell her so.
I can sorta make sense of it through her eyes. (Joyce logic here, not my actual opinion) if Joyce was setting walky up, then there’s still “purity of mind” there. He could have still been pining after Dorothy. He didn’t *want* to move on, but his cooky supporting character friend made him go. True, the rotund brunette Dorothy was charming and made his heart flutter, but Dorothy was still his one true love.
If he went to Amber himself within the past three days however, it means (again, Joyce logic not mine) he cast Dorothy aside, already forgot about her, possibly never even cared. He just wanted to move on to the next piece of ass
Or, that’s my theory anyway.
No, no. It was a stroke of brilliance. Best case, she storms through the entire building looking for him while he hides in the last place she’ll look. Worse case, she gives up and returns to her room and he still has Sarah as a formidable shield to hide behind.
Okay, Walky, I know you want to be a good brother now and I commend you for knowing things need to change and wanting to progress from that. I also know you’re panicking and so I’m not holding this against you too much:
That said, I don’t think mentioning the stabbing without Sal’s permission in front of someone else is not a good example of that.
Yeah, that wasn’t a great move on Walky’s part. I can sort-of forgive it though, because he doesn’t seem to be in the headspace to really know what he’s saying. He appears to be mid-panic attack
Yeah, he is, definitely. That revelation hit him like a ton of bricks, especially because I get the feeling the stabbing isn’t something he’s actively thought about for a while, and it being Walky, not something he likely ever actually fully digested when it happened.
Which isn’t to say Walky doesn’t have complex emotions or a deep side, we’ve seen he does, but we’ve also seen he hasn’t been especially prepared for how to deal with it with his upbringing, between his bizarre machismo early in the strip he’s largely grown out of, and like Sal saying in their prior makeup, they’re not a hugging kind of family. Who’s going to talk to him about the stabbing, Linda? Not likely.
Honestly I think Sarah doesn’t see the gravity of Walkys problem here. If I was in a similar situation I don’t think I would turn a blind eye to the fact that my new girlfriend stabbed my only sibling once upon a time, maybe their relationship can get past this but I wouldn’t write this off as something trivial.
Now if you want teen drama I think that fits what Joyce is raging about better. I’ll admit though I see why she’s mad, as highly as much as she thinks of Dorothy I see why she would be crossed with walky moving on so quickly. At first glance it feels like he didn’t take her feelings about the break up in consideration ( even though he kind of did) to have replace her so quickly when it was so hard for Dorothy herself to let him go. Though I can see why Joyce would be pissy about this I don’t think it’s something go on the warpath over. That’s melodramatic teen drama.
He didn’t fight for her because he respected her priorities and didn’t want to get in the way of her work. He was already thinking of breaking up with her, so she could focus on her studies before she came up with the pause.
Admittedly his own low self-esteem played into that (and not just from his math class), but mostly he was incredibly mature about the whole thing.
As for Dorothy, her problem in the relationship was almost the opposite of what’s normally implied by “wasn’t committed and was toying with feelings”. She was formally not committed and completely up front about that. The problem was her own feelings kept getting more serious even though she thought they shouldn’t.
I’m not sure what “kept dumping him” means. They went on pause as a potential solution to her falling behind in class. She couldn’t keep that commitment to stay away from him and so went for a more formal actual breakup the next day. That’s it.
As she hasn’t seen the scar yet, I think we can forgive Sarah for not taking the stabbing seriously at this point. And the rest of what he’s saying boils down to ‘ sis, I’m dating someone you might have bad history with and it’s not my fault’ which _is_ teenage drama.
It’s entirely possible Sarah isn’t actually really listening to what Walky is saying because she simply does not care what this boy who walked into her room without her permission’s problems are.
That might work as an explanation for why Joyce is mad at him, except that it’s completely undermined by her trying to get him and Amber together. She didn’t get mad when she realized he was interested in Amber, but only when Billie let on they’d already connected.
Joyce, I thought you were doing better, but maybe let Sal be tge one to do that, if she wants to at all. You have absolutely no right, and your fucked up view of relationships will only do more harm than good.
Yes, but unlike Calvin’s mom, if Joyce would have reason to return to her room if she stopped looking for him. Calvin’s Mom doesn’t keep her all her things in the bathroom or sleep in the bathtub.
She is still trying to tell everyone how to how they should be and how to run their lives. Not to the same intolerant bigoted standard as the other month, but…
It’ll need to be Sarah, Dorothy or Ethan. Nobody else has the right hold on her for it to matter. Well, Becky would but Becky’s probably half the reason she’s like this to begin with.
Nineteen-year-olds would argue that, older adults with more experience beg to differ, and said nineteen-year-olds just roll their eyes back at them.
Personally I remember how much it sucked to not be taken seriously at that age, but my perspective has changed so much since then that I fall into the “lol whatever you’re still a kid” line of thinking more than I care to.
Yeah, no, a nineteen year old is an adult. A young, new adult who’s still figuring out how they’re going to adult, like anybody trying something new, but still an adult. And frankly, you shouldn’t be laughing at and dismissing teenagers or children either, because A) You remember how infuriating it is not to be taken seriously and B) You’re not necessarily smarter, wiser, more mature or more compassionate about the given subject just because you’re older.
Hence the “more than I care to”. I empathise with Sarah here, Walky and Joyce are pulling some childish shennanigans I’d just roll my eyes at in her position.
“Teenager” (or “child,” or “adolescent,” or “adult,” for that matter) is as much a state of mind as it is a number on a calendar. And one’s membership in any of the listed categories is not restricted to one-at-a-time.
Aaaww MAN!! I was hoping the comments would instead be filled to overflowing with young folk who don’t know the “ignorant slut” quote! That joke is ANCIENT, but still hilarious. A comment section filled with bewildered fans asking “Wat’chu talkin’ ’bout, Willis??” would have been doubly so.
Personally I was hoping for the comments section to be filled with a various assortment of different SNL quotes as we all try to guess which is the one the alt-text is referring to.
Well, I’m not a young person, but I didn’t know the quote. It’s only by chance that I even know what SNL stands for; I’ve definitely never seen it. So it’s a good thing a few people decided to reveal the quote, rather than assuming that Of Course Everyone Knows That.
Back in the old days, the three TV networks were required by the FCC to present both sides of a position, something called the Fairness Doctrine. CBS had a morning news program (real news, not happy bubbleheads), and once a week or so it included a segment called ‘Point / Counterpoint’ . James Kilpartrick and Shana Alexander would get a few minutes each to present the highs and lows of each side of a current hot topic.
This was still a recognized pop culture touchstone when SNL started, and they included a version of it the Weekend Update segment. Jane Curtain would lay out a reasoned position; Dan Ackroyd would reply with a series of personal attacks that always began with, “Jane, you ignorant slut!” I clearly remember “When will you and your loose-moraled liberal friends learn you just can’t run a country this way? Who did you have to sleep with to get this job, anyhow?” You know, more like how political topics are routinely debated these days, only not just for entertainment purposes.
Now, go out and play. Gramps has to go take his Metamucil.
True, though, Jacob and Joe seem like the potential options for that, and both are of those guys are lacking in soft parts for the most part. Between those two and Ethan, Joyce sure likes her some burly dudes.
I’ve shipped Joyce with Joe ever since he saved her a plain donut and she was the only one to get through to him. Then the Toebreaker scene reinforced that, with the way Joe looked at Jacob and Joyce together. He’s stated he doesn’t want to end up like his father, and Joyce represents the opposite path in sexuality. I think Joe sees Joyce as a forbidden fruit, too. To Joyce, Joe epitomizes the things she was taught to hate which she’s coming to learn aren’t so bad; he’s her path into uncharted territory. Also, she specifically found HIS porno, not some random one on ScrooToob, but the video she knew would co-star him.
I’ve shipped them for a while, too, I think starting with it being shown they text regularly because Joyce knows her understands her parent issues, but yeah, the donut stuff and the toebreaker stuff reinforced it, especially with her surprising reaction to her realizing what he was saying with that she *could* get Jacob, and him bailing with Malaya for what I can only imagine is going to be a humdinger of a conversation whenever it does pick up again. They’ve been kept separated since, so I am expecting it’s probably going to lead to something.
Also – “Joyce sure likes her some burly dudes” is something Amazi-Girl hinted at back in the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit sequence. Due to her agoraphobia and trauma from being roofied in the first week, Joyce surrounds herself with jacked dudes like Jacob and Ethan because she needs protectors and guardians to feel secure.
I ship it too, HOWEVER I don’t want them to get together until they’ve had some more personal growth. Joe is on a good path, we haven’t been able to see how he’s doing after the whole Malaya thing. He still needs to grow past the point of hooking up with girls to avoid talking about his feelings.
Joyce herself has grown a lot since their date and apologized which is great, but I feel like she still needs to figure out her boundary issues before dating anyone
Sarah, by what merit is this teenager drama? I’ve never had to come to terms with the girl that I hooked up with has stabbed my sister. I mean. I wasn’t very popular though so…
That was my thought as well. Both Sal and Amber are suffering from trauma from that incident and it has shaped their lives. The only thing I can think of is that Walky so quickly and anxiously jumped to how much he wants to be touching Amber’s soft parts, that Sarah completely missed the gravity of the situation.
The part where he was kissing someone he arguably should not have been based on social reasons. That’s enough for Sarah to go ‘this is going to blow up into something dramatic, and I want nothing to do with it or its fallout’.
I do think it’s interesting to consider the three possibilities Sarah’s *extremely* rude remark offer:
1. Sarah heard him clearly and is just being really rude because she dislikes Walky (and in *some* fairness, he *is* kind of a guy who’s surprised her in her dorm room, which is kiiiinda a no-no).
2. Sarah didn’t register what he said and is being rude, but would feel bad if she understood that this was more than just “im nervous because my sis doesnt like my gf”. Sarah really doesn’t have any context here, and maybe she just tuned out the “stabbing” stuff.
3. Sarah actually sees stabbing as “teenage drama”, which suggests she’s had a rougher childhood than she’s ever alluded to. A reminder that Sarah, one of the longest-established characters in this comic, has *never* had any exposition on her backstory before college. That’s kind of huge—I dare you to think of a single character as longest-running as Sarah who hasn’t had at least some fleshing out. Sarah doesn’t like talking about her past, but we know she’s poor and wants to succeed at any cost.
I have known people irl who came from backgrounds where “so-and-so got in a fight and stabbed so-and-so” *is* kind of just “teenage drama”. Sarah might legitimately see this as the exact kind of thing she wants to get away from by becoming a successful lawyer.
Anyways, Sarah’s definitely still being a jerk here. I usually defend her, but her line is just outright *mean* regardless of her intentions. But after thinking about it, and realizing how little we know about Sarah, I honestly do wonder if Willis is intentionally making her seem insanely dismissive to point to her rarely-discussed past.
Regardless, Sarah really is badly in need of more fleshing-out in general. All we know about her is that she takes her studies very, very seriously, and we know why she hates people. But the latter is actually a pretty recent development (she’s always been shy, but only recently has she turned outright hostile). We honestly know insanely little about who she is. Compare her to Amber, Sal, Joyce, Billie, Ruth, even *Mike* of late.
Mike! We know more about Mike’s life before college than Sarah’s! That is crazy to me!
Sarah was referring to herself as a ‘bongo-y killjoy misanthropist’ in freshman year. That crustiness isn’t new, but the situation with Dina didn’t help, no.
Yeah, I did think about mentioning that, but honestly? The joke there was how harshly Sarah always refers to people, including herself. Everyone else generally just saw her as shy or introverted, if her roommate’s to be believed. Back then, “misanthrope” was seen as overstatement.
I do wish I hadn’t used the exact same word she used, though. 😛
Why with the rankings? I’m genuinely curious. Will the comments section ever believe that some flavors of shit can be toxic to one person while being acceptable but not great behavior to another?
I don’t mean to imply that toxic behavior shouldn’t be called out as such; it absolutely should. It’s just that the nuance that different things bother different people seem to get muddied in this rush to categorize everyone in order of worst to best human. It’s weird to me.
It’s okay, this is by far one of the least egregious examples I’ve seen here of ranking the characters from worst to best. I think I’m brining my own weird hangups to the thread, though, and for that I apologize. Carry on doing what makes you happy!
Off topic, but a week or two ago someone here linked to Leif & Thorn, and I wanted to both thank and curse them. 🙂 I was still binge-reading it Christmas Eve, and just finished But I’m A Cat Person today.
It was “Jane you ignorant slut” and whatever the guy’s name was “… you degenerate sleazeball.” Of course that was more than 40 years ago so my memory may not be the best about that. I remember it was Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtain so it might have been “Dan you degenerate sleaze(ball?)”
But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t anyone called “Walky”.
I want to grab both Joyce and Walky and smack them upside the head. Joyce for immediately going into Walky being an ass just because he dated Amber so soon, and Walky for leaving Amber worried she messed up and not just going, “Yo sis, I didn’t know the girl I’m dating now was the one who stabbed you. Is that an issue? I don’t want to be a dick by dating somebody you might have PTSD merely looking at”
Walky has literally no obligation to worry about Amber’s feelings here. If she feels bad well good it means she’s not a horrible person and maybe she should spend some time with that guilt and come to terms with it instead of immediately being soothed like a colicky baby. Walky still hasn’t even figured out his feelings about this and you’re asking him to also handle Amber’s for her when he has every reason to be mad at her?
In Walky’s defense, this is heavy stuff. He is legitimately confused about what to do. He found out about this less than an hour ago. He needs time to think, which is what he tried (and failed) to tell Amber. His conversation with Sal is going to be one of the most awkward and difficult discussions of his life. Walky deserves some time to get his head together before talking to Sal.
SHE STABBED
HIS SISTER
THIS IS ENTIRELY THE RIGHT RESPONSE
Anyone who would be totally chill about their girlfriend stabbing their sister is a fucking psychopath unless the sister is some sort of abusive tyrant.
The only thing walky should be smacked for here is going into a girls dorm without permission
Fuck Amber’s feelings, She should feel like she messed up because did, by knowingly dating the brother of that girl she stabbed and not telling him. Also lying about changing his grades which could get them both kicked out
Note that Amber didn’t know he was Sal’s brother when they first made out. She found out on the rooftop when Sal confronted them late at night. Sal and Amber had their fight the next day and she’s telling him the day after.
I think she can get cut a little slack on not turning around and telling him instantly.
Yeah to be fair it took just a little over a day to come clean about it after she found out. I say that’s making good time…..then again she did only come clean about it sooner than planned because she got into a fight with his sister where she inflicted more bodily harm tword her so yeah that’s a bit of a takeaway.
Walky does not need to comfort Amber, especially over such a heavy truth reveal like that. He needs time to sort through his feelings and also talk to Sal about it, and while it may not be nice, Walky has 0 obligation to put Amber’s needs over his own or his sister’s when Walky is too confused and upset to know what he’s feeling right now.
Also, of note: Walky didn’t even blow up on Amber. He didn’t say anything or criticize Amber or anything. He just said “I don’t know, I need to think about this” and left. He has every right to say this and every right to feel this way, and there’s absolutely no reason for him to put that all aside to comfort Amber and assure her she didn’t do anything wrong by stabbing his sister and then getting into a physical fight with her over it.
Yea Walky is entitled to his own feelings about this situation and its not fair to ask him to put those aside to comfort Amber. And its legitimate to ask his sister for her own feelings himself before he decides whether this is a deal breaker instead of taking Amber’s word for it.
For some reason this discussion reminds me of the episode of Gargoyles where Goliath was cloned by his enemy without his permission. So he didn’t instantly take to the idea of being cloned and when confronted with it might have vocalized his feelings. His girlfriend pointed out it wasn’t the clones fault and he turned around pretty quickly but the damage had been done(although I’m not sure things would have worked out otherwise). Even in that story I didn’t think Goliath was wrong to have his initial reaction.
Amber actually did the thing which caused this rift even if it was years ago, and Amber is an adult who shouldn’t expect someone to stow away their feelings about things that effect them so they can comfort her.
Yeah, for sure. It’s absolutely reasonable for Amber to worry about if she messed up, because she did. Even if it was years ago, it still had a pretty impactful relationship on Sal and especially Sal’s relationship with her family, and that’s not something that just.. goes away, because Sal said she forgave her. It’s complicated. It’d be similar to finding out you’re dating the childhood bully of your sibling. It’s a complicated issue and it’s not something that you can- or should- put aside your own feelings and the feelings of other people around you to comfort your partner over their past actions. Amber even recognized that Walky might hate her after finding out, which is, again, completely reasonable. Even if it hadn’t been his sister who got stabbed, finding out that she stabbed someone is kind of a Big Deal. And it can absolutely be a deal breaker.
To be fair, it makes sense that she is mad at him in this instance at least, a lot of people would be if one of their closest friends’s ex was dating someone else practically three seconds after their amiacible break-up without giving themselves both space to recover. Her reasoning is most definitely likely to some degree faulty for as to why considering she was perfectly fine pairing him up with Amber herself as apparently matchmaking is always okay in Joyce’s mind.
I don’t think you are required to remain single for a certain amount of time in consideration of the other person once you break up. Why is this a thing people think?
1) It can seem uncaring and like you are trivalising your previous relationship when your break-up was mostly mutual and accepted by both parties to jump into another relationship right away, knowing it will likely still be raw for this other person. Since you were close to this person, you are usually expected to care? And to want to be considerate? Because the break-up already hurt them so why, if you care about them, would you instantly want to add more pain to the situation?
2) Often it is bad for yourself as usually an immediate relationship becomes a rebound. And using someone else to avoid processing your emotions or to have them make you process, tends to result in this relationship forming around negative feelings and then breaking up with them once they are no longer able to magically make you feel better. It isn’t nice to use other people as a therapist or coping mechanism and it may in fact not work, but simply make you feel like a failure at relationships if they break-up with you when they recognise you are using them as a rebound. This can lead to you then trying to get over multiple break-ups in quick succession and simply adding more layers to your pain rather than learning to exist alone again and to process your feeling about it.
3) Can send an image that you weren’t actually invested and had other options waiting in the wings the whole time. This is often true with guys even. Women are more likely to take a short break from dating immediately after a break-up and be single for a while, while a man will usually start forging a new relationship to jump into before the old one has even ended.
4) There isn’t a downside to waiting a week or two and to spend some time focused on other things. If being single is completely unbearable to you, that is often a sign you have attachment issues to sort out.
5) There is no entitlement to a mourning period, but socially, people will think it is a jerk move to start dating someone else immediately in the same way that if you friend was robbed, you wouldn’t be expected to be making thief/robber jokes to their face 5 seconds after finding out about it.
Socially, as a human being, you are expected to not do something you know will make someone feel worse – you’re not expected to NEVER be allowed to do the thing, but to have the decency to let the pain be less raw before acting.
I completely disagree with most of your points – most notably, people can feel bad about anything and interpret it as harmful to them if they want. Also, there’s no guarantee that the timing for a new relationship will be right in a few weeks, so yes, there can be a downside.
But I do admit you answered my question of why, even if I wholeheartedly disagree.
Like most things in human relationships. (At least in most current cultures – in some there were much stricter rules.)
Things you should be concerned about and consider, out of respect and concern for those you care about. Things that others may look askance at, because it will appear as if you do not have that respect and concern.
Reasons to be wary of moving too quickly, but not absolute reasons to never do so.
EVEN if she wasn’t oh so eager to pair him off with Amber, relationships aren’t entitled to mourning periods. Joyce certainly doesn’t think they are, seeing as she spent half an arc trying to break up an EXISTING relationship.
They might not be entitled to it, but that doesn’t make it less of a jerk move in people’s eyes to do something you know will hurt someone else that you have stated and shown you care about previously.
It might be a jerk move in other people’s eyes, but that doesn’t justify anyone going around screaming about what a degenerate sleaze they are. That’s also a giant jerk move. Joyce can be upset or concerned about Dorothy and her feelings in this, but ultimately it has nothing to do with her what Walky does with other people.
In which Joyce becomes Tenko Chabashira for a second
I consistently mix up SNL and NFL so I was very confused at the idea of the NFL being highly quotable
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Hi Sarah !
Walky, you knowledgeable eunuch, you.
I… I’m not sure whose expression is my favorite in the last panel, tbh.
They’re all perfect for the panel, but that’s just the best angry Joyce face ever.
Not to mention any panel in which Joyce looks like she’s gonna angrily consume Walky’s finger really sells the comedy here.
Not to mention Walky using Sarah as a shield.
First of all, how dare you.
I stand corrected.
LIVE FROM NEW YORK, IT’S SATURDAY NIIIIIIIIGHT
I’ve got a fever… and the only prescription… is more cowbell.
“My name’s Matt. I’m a radar technician.”
“Fergia, Fergia, nippola nippola…”
And now, for something completely different… Wait! Wrong show.
Though I am disappointed that Walky didn’t work in a huge tracks of land reference.
Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, Pepsi, Pepsi, Cheeseburger.
Careful with that reference, there. It’s an antique!
“New Shimmer is both a floor wax and a dessert topping!”
“I am 100% certain that Matt is Kylo Ren.”
Okay, I’m not familiar with that SNL reference.
Do not taunt happy-fun-Joyce.
…is that whatever the alt text was referring to ?
No, I’m pretty sure the alt-text is referring to the Weekend Update segment “Point/Counter-Point” with Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd, in which both took potshots at each other for promiscuity and/or inability to get laid. Akroyd would always start with “Jane, you ignorant slut…”
that’s a very obscure and specific thing for a french person like me
Omfg i got it right?
I assumed when it wasn’t filtered, i got it wrong.
OHHHHH NOOOOOO!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WO6_IiZ_WI
YOU’LL LIVE IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER
eating government cheese!
Now, young man, what do you want to do with your life?
Going in slightly different direction from a different source: “Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”
I don’t recognize the SNL quote mentioned, so I’m guessing it must be from the time when SNL sucked. (i.e. – anytime after 1995). If you disagree with that statement, go back and watch the original cast’s skits from 1975 – 1980 first, comparing them to more recent stuff.
(Yes, I’m old.)
The “Jane, you ignorant slut” routine was from 1979. Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin.
(I’m shocked I’m the first to do this one) Land shark!
Hmm, who could it be? Mmm, maybe SATAN???
I feel for Sarah
“Damnit, I am NOT the nice one!! Why does everyone come to ME when Joyce – THE NICE ONE – loses her shit??”
“You manage to survive despite being roomed with her”
It’s the Granny Weatherwax problem.
“Because you’re the steady one. You don’t mood swing like her. You’re a predictable, reliable grumpy 24/7.”
Joyce’s problem better be that she thinks Walky was having pre-marital hanky panky with Amber before he broke up with Dorothy, because if her problem is him getting over the break-up too soon, when she was just trying to make them get together specifically for that purpose, I’ll be cross
Welcome to the world of Joyce Brown where the rules don’t make sense and boundaries don’t matter.
Joyce: You can’t do that to a girl!
Walky: Who made you the expert on relationships, anyway?
Joyce: … I had a boyfriend!
Walky: He was gay.
This got a laugh out of me, good job.
Same.
speaking of boundaries, Walky currently has his chin resting on Sarah’s shoulder while holding her from behind.
It’s the most tactically advantageous position! Sarah will repel Joyce as though she were a magnet with the same polarity, and he’s so close to Sarah that she’ll have trouble hitting him with the baseball bat.
Walky has obviously given this some thought. Now Sarah can’t help but see the logic of his position and Joyce is the last person who can complain about an invasion of her room.
It’s time to take out the trusty bat
Speaking of boundaries Walky walked into Sarah’s room while she wasn’t even there and apparently just thought he’d hang out.
To be fair it’s also Joyce’s room, and probably the last place she’d look for him.
Really doubt Joyce wants him in her room right now either so to be fair that just makes it even less appropriate.
Since when does Walky make appropriate, courteous decisions when he’s panicking, though?
Since when does Walky make appropriate, courteous decisions.
Yeah, that too!
Prepare to be cross.
Walky is not allowed to choose his sex partners. If he expresses any agency at all about being with Dorothy, breaking up wirh her or moving on without Joyce’s say so, he’s total scum.
This is because he hasn’t seen enough to Romcoms to who and when he is supposed to. Joyce has, thats why he can date Amber when Joyce says so, and Joyce can lust after partnered people. and probably something about Jesus
God’s will.
wasn’t there even a strip where Joyce reasoned that if it was God’s will that Joyce should be with Jacob then it was okay to pursue him while he was dating Raidah…?
Well. if it is God’s will, then of course it’s okay. To many religious types, that’s pretty much the definition of okay.
Of course the problem is that Joyce doesn’t have any way of knowing if it actually is God’s will or not.
Of course she does! As a saved person her mind is by definition in perfect synch with God’s, which means that anything she wants to do is God’s will and thus she is exempt from law and morality.
To be fair to her, while Joyce’s code of conduct and expectations of others are thoroughly irrational and deeply hypocritical, she’s reasonably good at recognizing this when it’s pointed out to her, and changing her attitudes.
She’s not CONSCIOUSLY a hypocrite, and tries to stop when you tell her so.
I can sorta make sense of it through her eyes. (Joyce logic here, not my actual opinion) if Joyce was setting walky up, then there’s still “purity of mind” there. He could have still been pining after Dorothy. He didn’t *want* to move on, but his cooky supporting character friend made him go. True, the rotund brunette Dorothy was charming and made his heart flutter, but Dorothy was still his one true love.
If he went to Amber himself within the past three days however, it means (again, Joyce logic not mine) he cast Dorothy aside, already forgot about her, possibly never even cared. He just wanted to move on to the next piece of ass
Or, that’s my theory anyway.
*plays The Alan Parsons Project’s “Damned If I Do” on the hacked Muzak*
*thinks now The Rolling Stones’ “A Rock And A Hard Place” is a better choice*
It’s probably a bit obscure, but Magazine’s “Shot by both sides” works as well.
How about Stealers Wheel’s “Stuck In Middle”?
For Sarah, I mean.
She’s looked at Walky’s love from both sides now?
But clowns got in her way.
I thought it was clouds?
Pretty sure sure Walky’s not a cloud.
Besides, it’s Sarah that’s in her way.
Sarah would be the worst clown ever
I think you just sent up the Yotomoe signal.
@ opus – it is/was, but given the cast of characters in the Dumbiverse “clowns” is probably more appropriate.
In hindsight Walky I think if you were going to hide from Joyce then it was probably a bad idea to do so in her dorm room.
He’s been hanging out with Amber, which means he’s also been around Dina recently. So he thought he might be able to vanish behind the door.
Silly Walky, that only works for dinosaurs.
No, no. It was a stroke of brilliance. Best case, she storms through the entire building looking for him while he hides in the last place she’ll look. Worse case, she gives up and returns to her room and he still has Sarah as a formidable shield to hide behind.
Can’t decide if I like Sarah’s face in the lastpanel more than the line “Entrapment made outta soft parts I wanna touch”.
Both belong on the cover of the next book.
Different editions with different subtitles for maximum collectible goodness.
And foil covers!
Foil covers are important.
So you can wear them as a hat?
Okay, Walky, I know you want to be a good brother now and I commend you for knowing things need to change and wanting to progress from that. I also know you’re panicking and so I’m not holding this against you too much:
That said, I don’t think mentioning the stabbing without Sal’s permission in front of someone else is not a good example of that.
Now, I need that sibling chat like I need air.
PS – Sarah is the best. <3
Yeah, that wasn’t a great move on Walky’s part. I can sort-of forgive it though, because he doesn’t seem to be in the headspace to really know what he’s saying. He appears to be mid-panic attack
Yeah, I wouldn’t hold it against him, but I can’t help but bring it up.
Yeah, he is, definitely. That revelation hit him like a ton of bricks, especially because I get the feeling the stabbing isn’t something he’s actively thought about for a while, and it being Walky, not something he likely ever actually fully digested when it happened.
Which isn’t to say Walky doesn’t have complex emotions or a deep side, we’ve seen he does, but we’ve also seen he hasn’t been especially prepared for how to deal with it with his upbringing, between his bizarre machismo early in the strip he’s largely grown out of, and like Sal saying in their prior makeup, they’re not a hugging kind of family. Who’s going to talk to him about the stabbing, Linda? Not likely.
That should say ‘is a good example of that’ not ‘is not a good example of that’.
Walky does have the annoying habit of blurt out very delicate information when he panics, just like with the Ruth and Billie situation
Good news is Sarah doesn’t seem to actually be listening to what he’s saying (since she’s brushed it off as “Teenage Bullshit”), so.
Honestly I think Sarah doesn’t see the gravity of Walkys problem here. If I was in a similar situation I don’t think I would turn a blind eye to the fact that my new girlfriend stabbed my only sibling once upon a time, maybe their relationship can get past this but I wouldn’t write this off as something trivial.
Now if you want teen drama I think that fits what Joyce is raging about better. I’ll admit though I see why she’s mad, as highly as much as she thinks of Dorothy I see why she would be crossed with walky moving on so quickly. At first glance it feels like he didn’t take her feelings about the break up in consideration ( even though he kind of did) to have replace her so quickly when it was so hard for Dorothy herself to let him go. Though I can see why Joyce would be pissy about this I don’t think it’s something go on the warpath over. That’s melodramatic teen drama.
In othewords , Walky prioritized his feelings over the ex gf who wasn’t committed and was toying with feelings and kept dumping him. ?
Walky always Dorothy more, shes lucky hes not stalking her. The only he didn’t fight for her was low self esteem over his math class
Walky always the whole Dorothy?
The whole. Damn. Dorothy.
More. (Nods vigorously )
He didn’t fight for her because he respected her priorities and didn’t want to get in the way of her work. He was already thinking of breaking up with her, so she could focus on her studies before she came up with the pause.
Admittedly his own low self-esteem played into that (and not just from his math class), but mostly he was incredibly mature about the whole thing.
As for Dorothy, her problem in the relationship was almost the opposite of what’s normally implied by “wasn’t committed and was toying with feelings”. She was formally not committed and completely up front about that. The problem was her own feelings kept getting more serious even though she thought they shouldn’t.
I’m not sure what “kept dumping him” means. They went on pause as a potential solution to her falling behind in class. She couldn’t keep that commitment to stay away from him and so went for a more formal actual breakup the next day. That’s it.
As she hasn’t seen the scar yet, I think we can forgive Sarah for not taking the stabbing seriously at this point. And the rest of what he’s saying boils down to ‘ sis, I’m dating someone you might have bad history with and it’s not my fault’ which _is_ teenage drama.
Oh help it got a patreon mail with the link to tomorrow’s strip.
*Must be strong and not use it*
It’s entirely possible Sarah isn’t actually really listening to what Walky is saying because she simply does not care what this boy who walked into her room without her permission’s problems are.
That might work as an explanation for why Joyce is mad at him, except that it’s completely undermined by her trying to get him and Amber together. She didn’t get mad when she realized he was interested in Amber, but only when Billie let on they’d already connected.
Joyce, I thought you were doing better, but maybe let Sal be tge one to do that, if she wants to at all. You have absolutely no right, and your fucked up view of relationships will only do more harm than good.
Why Sal? Sal doesn’t have anything to do with why Joyce is mad at him.
My brain was on auto pilot, I said Sal without thinking about it, meant Dorothy.
This has nothing to do with the stabbing incident
Why did he think going into Joyce’s room was going to help him hide from her?
Walky is not good at the thinky-thinky stuff when panicking
Maybe he figured it’s be the last place she look. Like when Calvin hid from his mom in the tub to avoid taking a bath.
http://assets.amuniversal.com/21016b305eb70135e16b005056a9545d.jpg
Yes, but unlike Calvin’s mom, if Joyce would have reason to return to her room if she stopped looking for him. Calvin’s Mom doesn’t keep her all her things in the bathroom or sleep in the bathtub.
He only has to hide there until he works up the courage to talk to his sister.
So, two or three weeks, max.
Comic time, so sometime around 2024.
“Entrapment made outta soft parts I wanna touch” better be the title of the next volume. And if it isn’t then I’m totally kidnapping the line.
Obv ideal for Walky Amber slipshine
I know a band name when I hear one.
joyce really got that energy back real quick.
She is still trying to tell everyone how to how they should be and how to run their lives. Not to the same intolerant bigoted standard as the other month, but…
Joyce is a mega-shipper, being left out of the shipping loops is a terrible offense
So, blockaded from the seas of love?
Has Joyce opened her mouth so much to yell at anyone lately? (Maybe her jerk brother at the restaurant?)
Probably that, or maybe art Joe during the toe incident.
Jeez, the thing with her brother has to be like, two weeks ago at the most. No wonder Joyce is touchy.
At this moment it’s near exactly 13 days ago for her.
Good point. I will try to separate this from the “excited utterance” category, like Toedad kidnapping Becky, or the Toebreaker incident.
I’m gonna be really cross if nobody says to Joyce something to the effect of “fuck off and mind your own business, you psycho”
Wait it out, I guess. The thing with Sal ended up going way smoother than any of us expected, so she might be due for another breakthrough.
It’ll need to be Sarah, Dorothy or Ethan. Nobody else has the right hold on her for it to matter. Well, Becky would but Becky’s probably half the reason she’s like this to begin with.
And judging by the look on Sarah’s face in the last panel, today just might be the day.
Isn’t Joyce based on Willis?
This is exactly the reaction I wanted Walky to have
sarah are you not nineteen
She’s a lawyer in training, plus she has that Raidah baggage. She’s trying very hard to be above stuff she’s not especially above.
Despite what you might think, many people will argue at great length that 19 year old people are not teenagers.
Nineteen-year-olds would argue that, older adults with more experience beg to differ, and said nineteen-year-olds just roll their eyes back at them.
Personally I remember how much it sucked to not be taken seriously at that age, but my perspective has changed so much since then that I fall into the “lol whatever you’re still a kid” line of thinking more than I care to.
Yeah, no, a nineteen year old is an adult. A young, new adult who’s still figuring out how they’re going to adult, like anybody trying something new, but still an adult. And frankly, you shouldn’t be laughing at and dismissing teenagers or children either, because A) You remember how infuriating it is not to be taken seriously and B) You’re not necessarily smarter, wiser, more mature or more compassionate about the given subject just because you’re older.
Hence the “more than I care to”. I empathise with Sarah here, Walky and Joyce are pulling some childish shennanigans I’d just roll my eyes at in her position.
I get that. I misunderstood your post. I’m sorry about that.
S’all good.
She’s probably using it to mean ‘not a minor’. Whatever else she is, Sarah is an adult.
Plus, I’m pretty sure this stuff could evolve in a big drama at any age. The central element is a crippled hand, that’s not something you grow out of
“Teenager” (or “child,” or “adolescent,” or “adult,” for that matter) is as much a state of mind as it is a number on a calendar. And one’s membership in any of the listed categories is not restricted to one-at-a-time.
I’m going to be honest I don’t get the SNL joke, I feel like I’m missing a major pop culture reference and I’m disappointed in myself because of so.
maybe “Jayne, you ignorant slut”? Only thing that comes to mind
Dollars to donuts that Willis is referring to “Jane, you ignorant slut!”, from when Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin would do Weekend Update.
Aaaww MAN!! I was hoping the comments would instead be filled to overflowing with young folk who don’t know the “ignorant slut” quote! That joke is ANCIENT, but still hilarious. A comment section filled with bewildered fans asking “Wat’chu talkin’ ’bout, Willis??” would have been doubly so.
Personally I was hoping for the comments section to be filled with a various assortment of different SNL quotes as we all try to guess which is the one the alt-text is referring to.
“That’s the ticket!”
-Jon Lovitz, voice of the Head Alien
Cheeburger Cheeburger Cheeburger at the Olympia Cafe. No Coke, Pepsi!
“We are, two wild and crazy guys!”
Let me tell you children, of a time when the world did not know of Will Ferrell . . .
It was truly a golden age.
Well, I’m not a young person, but I didn’t know the quote. It’s only by chance that I even know what SNL stands for; I’ve definitely never seen it. So it’s a good thing a few people decided to reveal the quote, rather than assuming that Of Course Everyone Knows That.
“Walky, you ignorant slut!”
… you know what, that totally fits.
It does.
Didn’t the “Jane you…” comment get a retread recently when Jane Curtin went on TV and told people her opinion of Trump.
Yeah, I have no idea what old SNL line I’m supposed to be quoting in the comments either.
Gather ’round, children.
Back in the old days, the three TV networks were required by the FCC to present both sides of a position, something called the Fairness Doctrine. CBS had a morning news program (real news, not happy bubbleheads), and once a week or so it included a segment called ‘Point / Counterpoint’ . James Kilpartrick and Shana Alexander would get a few minutes each to present the highs and lows of each side of a current hot topic.
This was still a recognized pop culture touchstone when SNL started, and they included a version of it the Weekend Update segment. Jane Curtain would lay out a reasoned position; Dan Ackroyd would reply with a series of personal attacks that always began with, “Jane, you ignorant slut!” I clearly remember “When will you and your loose-moraled liberal friends learn you just can’t run a country this way? Who did you have to sleep with to get this job, anyhow?” You know, more like how political topics are routinely debated these days, only not just for entertainment purposes.
Now, go out and play. Gramps has to go take his Metamucil.
The right wing tends to respond to satire of it in a two-step process: Take great umbrage, then take the satire as an instruction manual.
And then Jane would rip her blouse open.
Dumbing of Age Book 9: Entrapment Made Out of Soft Parts I Wanna Touch
If Joyce’s character is arcing in the direction I think it is, I think this could actually be a super relevant title
True, though, Jacob and Joe seem like the potential options for that, and both are of those guys are lacking in soft parts for the most part. Between those two and Ethan, Joyce sure likes her some burly dudes.
I’ve shipped Joyce with Joe ever since he saved her a plain donut and she was the only one to get through to him. Then the Toebreaker scene reinforced that, with the way Joe looked at Jacob and Joyce together. He’s stated he doesn’t want to end up like his father, and Joyce represents the opposite path in sexuality. I think Joe sees Joyce as a forbidden fruit, too. To Joyce, Joe epitomizes the things she was taught to hate which she’s coming to learn aren’t so bad; he’s her path into uncharted territory. Also, she specifically found HIS porno, not some random one on ScrooToob, but the video she knew would co-star him.
I’ve shipped them for a while, too, I think starting with it being shown they text regularly because Joyce knows her understands her parent issues, but yeah, the donut stuff and the toebreaker stuff reinforced it, especially with her surprising reaction to her realizing what he was saying with that she *could* get Jacob, and him bailing with Malaya for what I can only imagine is going to be a humdinger of a conversation whenever it does pick up again. They’ve been kept separated since, so I am expecting it’s probably going to lead to something.
Also – “Joyce sure likes her some burly dudes” is something Amazi-Girl hinted at back in the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit sequence. Due to her agoraphobia and trauma from being roofied in the first week, Joyce surrounds herself with jacked dudes like Jacob and Ethan because she needs protectors and guardians to feel secure.
Dumbing of Age Book 9: This Is Teenager Drama And I Do Not Give One Tiny Shit
I ship it too, HOWEVER I don’t want them to get together until they’ve had some more personal growth. Joe is on a good path, we haven’t been able to see how he’s doing after the whole Malaya thing. He still needs to grow past the point of hooking up with girls to avoid talking about his feelings.
Joyce herself has grown a lot since their date and apologized which is great, but I feel like she still needs to figure out her boundary issues before dating anyone
Willis just keeps taunting us with obvious book titles he’s not going to use:
“This Is Teenager Drama and I Do Not Give One Tiny Shit”
“Walky, You Degenerate Sleaze”
The first one works so well.
At this rate, the real title is going to have to be “Dumbing of Age Book 9: Too Many Lines In This Book Make for Good Titles”, or something like that.
“Dumbing of Age Book 9: Insert Random Quote From Random Panel of Random Strip”
DOA9: Sorry for slobbering all over the girl who stabbed the crapola out of your hand.
You have to admit, that would be pretty random.
Which SNL quote? “Jane, you ignorant slut!” ?
Yeah, almost certainly
…What kind of people did Sarah hang out with growing up if she thinks this is typical teenage drama?
She went to Degrassi.
Sarah, by what merit is this teenager drama? I’ve never had to come to terms with the girl that I hooked up with has stabbed my sister. I mean. I wasn’t very popular though so…
That was my thought as well. Both Sal and Amber are suffering from trauma from that incident and it has shaped their lives. The only thing I can think of is that Walky so quickly and anxiously jumped to how much he wants to be touching Amber’s soft parts, that Sarah completely missed the gravity of the situation.
Guessing she wasn’t especially listening, because even for Sarah, a stabbing is something that’d merit a little more notice than that.
The part where he was kissing someone he arguably should not have been based on social reasons. That’s enough for Sarah to go ‘this is going to blow up into something dramatic, and I want nothing to do with it or its fallout’.
Apparently not, but here, let me help.
“Jane, you ignorant slut”
You’re welcome. (bows)
I, for one, have no uncertainty of what was being referenced.
You definitely have the right avatar for your two comments.
Sarah continues to be my least favorite of the decent humans in this strip.
I do think it’s interesting to consider the three possibilities Sarah’s *extremely* rude remark offer:
1. Sarah heard him clearly and is just being really rude because she dislikes Walky (and in *some* fairness, he *is* kind of a guy who’s surprised her in her dorm room, which is kiiiinda a no-no).
2. Sarah didn’t register what he said and is being rude, but would feel bad if she understood that this was more than just “im nervous because my sis doesnt like my gf”. Sarah really doesn’t have any context here, and maybe she just tuned out the “stabbing” stuff.
3. Sarah actually sees stabbing as “teenage drama”, which suggests she’s had a rougher childhood than she’s ever alluded to. A reminder that Sarah, one of the longest-established characters in this comic, has *never* had any exposition on her backstory before college. That’s kind of huge—I dare you to think of a single character as longest-running as Sarah who hasn’t had at least some fleshing out. Sarah doesn’t like talking about her past, but we know she’s poor and wants to succeed at any cost.
I have known people irl who came from backgrounds where “so-and-so got in a fight and stabbed so-and-so” *is* kind of just “teenage drama”. Sarah might legitimately see this as the exact kind of thing she wants to get away from by becoming a successful lawyer.
“as longest-running” good writing nikol
Anyways, Sarah’s definitely still being a jerk here. I usually defend her, but her line is just outright *mean* regardless of her intentions. But after thinking about it, and realizing how little we know about Sarah, I honestly do wonder if Willis is intentionally making her seem insanely dismissive to point to her rarely-discussed past.
Regardless, Sarah really is badly in need of more fleshing-out in general. All we know about her is that she takes her studies very, very seriously, and we know why she hates people. But the latter is actually a pretty recent development (she’s always been shy, but only recently has she turned outright hostile). We honestly know insanely little about who she is. Compare her to Amber, Sal, Joyce, Billie, Ruth, even *Mike* of late.
Mike! We know more about Mike’s life before college than Sarah’s! That is crazy to me!
Sarah was referring to herself as a ‘bongo-y killjoy misanthropist’ in freshman year. That crustiness isn’t new, but the situation with Dina didn’t help, no.
Dana
GodDAMN, I am sucking with typos today.
Yeah, I did think about mentioning that, but honestly? The joke there was how harshly Sarah always refers to people, including herself. Everyone else generally just saw her as shy or introverted, if her roommate’s to be believed. Back then, “misanthrope” was seen as overstatement.
I do wish I hadn’t used the exact same word she used, though. 😛
Sarah prefers her words. 😛
“Least favorite of decent humans.”
Why with the rankings? I’m genuinely curious. Will the comments section ever believe that some flavors of shit can be toxic to one person while being acceptable but not great behavior to another?
I don’t mean to imply that toxic behavior shouldn’t be called out as such; it absolutely should. It’s just that the nuance that different things bother different people seem to get muddied in this rush to categorize everyone in order of worst to best human. It’s weird to me.
I think the OP is trying to be clear that while they find Sarah grating, she’s obviously not as bad as Blaine and Mary and the rest of that lot.
Sorry, I think I misread you.
I… Genuinely have no idea what you’re getting at with this comment. I’m sorry.
Nikol is right in their interpretation of what I meant though.
It’s okay, this is by far one of the least egregious examples I’ve seen here of ranking the characters from worst to best. I think I’m brining my own weird hangups to the thread, though, and for that I apologize. Carry on doing what makes you happy!
Well, it’s kinda human nature to try and categorize things
Oh man,
If the Alt-Text isn’t expecting ”
“Joyce, ( Jane) , You ignorant slut” , then i give up.
If the text changes to Slongo, i guess I win.
Dammit!
Fuck off, Joyce.
I come bearing links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVtZkyBTabQ
Sarah is trying her very best to be a grownup, bless her heart.
I’m from the Midwest.
Joyce, you overbearing skank. Butt out.
Uh, Joyce? Matthew 7:1.
“First of all, this is teenager drama.” Words of wisdom from Sarah, who as a sophomore is what? Maybe all of twenty years old herself?
She must have had a rough time as a teenager.
Also, isn’t she a teenager? Or barely not one.
You can be a teenager and still hate the drama of other teenagers and want nothing to do with it.
Off topic, but a week or two ago someone here linked to Leif & Thorn, and I wanted to both thank and curse them. 🙂 I was still binge-reading it Christmas Eve, and just finished But I’m A Cat Person today.
It was “Jane you ignorant slut” and whatever the guy’s name was “… you degenerate sleazeball.” Of course that was more than 40 years ago so my memory may not be the best about that. I remember it was Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtain so it might have been “Dan you degenerate sleaze(ball?)”
But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t anyone called “Walky”.
Dan
I don’t watch SNL, so here ‘s that classic line from Troy instead: “Sack of wine!”
Oh, for the days when I considered Saturday Night worth watching.
Yeah, I’m old. 😐
I’m sorry, Sarah, but you are in entirely the wrong universe to avoid been swept along by the tides of teenage drama!
Sarah: Avoiding teenage drama. It’s not super effective.
I want to grab both Joyce and Walky and smack them upside the head. Joyce for immediately going into Walky being an ass just because he dated Amber so soon, and Walky for leaving Amber worried she messed up and not just going, “Yo sis, I didn’t know the girl I’m dating now was the one who stabbed you. Is that an issue? I don’t want to be a dick by dating somebody you might have PTSD merely looking at”
Walky has literally no obligation to worry about Amber’s feelings here. If she feels bad well good it means she’s not a horrible person and maybe she should spend some time with that guilt and come to terms with it instead of immediately being soothed like a colicky baby. Walky still hasn’t even figured out his feelings about this and you’re asking him to also handle Amber’s for her when he has every reason to be mad at her?
In Walky’s defense, this is heavy stuff. He is legitimately confused about what to do. He found out about this less than an hour ago. He needs time to think, which is what he tried (and failed) to tell Amber. His conversation with Sal is going to be one of the most awkward and difficult discussions of his life. Walky deserves some time to get his head together before talking to Sal.
SHE STABBED
HIS SISTER
THIS IS ENTIRELY THE RIGHT RESPONSE
Anyone who would be totally chill about their girlfriend stabbing their sister is a fucking psychopath unless the sister is some sort of abusive tyrant.
The only thing walky should be smacked for here is going into a girls dorm without permission
Fuck Amber’s feelings, She should feel like she messed up because did, by knowingly dating the brother of that girl she stabbed and not telling him. Also lying about changing his grades which could get them both kicked out
Note that Amber didn’t know he was Sal’s brother when they first made out. She found out on the rooftop when Sal confronted them late at night. Sal and Amber had their fight the next day and she’s telling him the day after.
I think she can get cut a little slack on not turning around and telling him instantly.
Yeah to be fair it took just a little over a day to come clean about it after she found out. I say that’s making good time…..then again she did only come clean about it sooner than planned because she got into a fight with his sister where she inflicted more bodily harm tword her so yeah that’s a bit of a takeaway.
You say sooner than planned like she had a time frame other than “preferably never” in mind.
Walky does not need to comfort Amber, especially over such a heavy truth reveal like that. He needs time to sort through his feelings and also talk to Sal about it, and while it may not be nice, Walky has 0 obligation to put Amber’s needs over his own or his sister’s when Walky is too confused and upset to know what he’s feeling right now.
Also, of note: Walky didn’t even blow up on Amber. He didn’t say anything or criticize Amber or anything. He just said “I don’t know, I need to think about this” and left. He has every right to say this and every right to feel this way, and there’s absolutely no reason for him to put that all aside to comfort Amber and assure her she didn’t do anything wrong by stabbing his sister and then getting into a physical fight with her over it.
Yea Walky is entitled to his own feelings about this situation and its not fair to ask him to put those aside to comfort Amber. And its legitimate to ask his sister for her own feelings himself before he decides whether this is a deal breaker instead of taking Amber’s word for it.
For some reason this discussion reminds me of the episode of Gargoyles where Goliath was cloned by his enemy without his permission. So he didn’t instantly take to the idea of being cloned and when confronted with it might have vocalized his feelings. His girlfriend pointed out it wasn’t the clones fault and he turned around pretty quickly but the damage had been done(although I’m not sure things would have worked out otherwise). Even in that story I didn’t think Goliath was wrong to have his initial reaction.
Amber actually did the thing which caused this rift even if it was years ago, and Amber is an adult who shouldn’t expect someone to stow away their feelings about things that effect them so they can comfort her.
Yeah, for sure. It’s absolutely reasonable for Amber to worry about if she messed up, because she did. Even if it was years ago, it still had a pretty impactful relationship on Sal and especially Sal’s relationship with her family, and that’s not something that just.. goes away, because Sal said she forgave her. It’s complicated. It’d be similar to finding out you’re dating the childhood bully of your sibling. It’s a complicated issue and it’s not something that you can- or should- put aside your own feelings and the feelings of other people around you to comfort your partner over their past actions. Amber even recognized that Walky might hate her after finding out, which is, again, completely reasonable. Even if it hadn’t been his sister who got stabbed, finding out that she stabbed someone is kind of a Big Deal. And it can absolutely be a deal breaker.
I’m David Pumpkins, and I’m here to scare the hell out of you!
…that’s what we were talking about, right?
Oh, no. He really is the one trapped with all the awkward conversations.
Aaaaand just like that Joyce is back to being unlikable.
She very rarely stops being unlikeable for me.
Ahhh “degenerate” evryone’s favourite conservative dehumanizing buzzword.
Ironic though I use that word to refer to certain Grossly immoral conservative individuals such as individual #1 a.k.a president dick head himself.
90% of people’s reactions to what comes out of Joyce’s mouth should be “Fuck off, it’s none of your business.”
To be fair, it makes sense that she is mad at him in this instance at least, a lot of people would be if one of their closest friends’s ex was dating someone else practically three seconds after their amiacible break-up without giving themselves both space to recover. Her reasoning is most definitely likely to some degree faulty for as to why considering she was perfectly fine pairing him up with Amber herself as apparently matchmaking is always okay in Joyce’s mind.
It’s fine if Joyce or Dorothy do something to Walky, because he’s a turd.
It’s not okay if he shows any agency.
Joyce just has double standards, whether it’s because of her worship of Dorothy, her despise of Walky, or a little of both.
I don’t think you are required to remain single for a certain amount of time in consideration of the other person once you break up. Why is this a thing people think?
Several reasons:
1) It can seem uncaring and like you are trivalising your previous relationship when your break-up was mostly mutual and accepted by both parties to jump into another relationship right away, knowing it will likely still be raw for this other person. Since you were close to this person, you are usually expected to care? And to want to be considerate? Because the break-up already hurt them so why, if you care about them, would you instantly want to add more pain to the situation?
2) Often it is bad for yourself as usually an immediate relationship becomes a rebound. And using someone else to avoid processing your emotions or to have them make you process, tends to result in this relationship forming around negative feelings and then breaking up with them once they are no longer able to magically make you feel better. It isn’t nice to use other people as a therapist or coping mechanism and it may in fact not work, but simply make you feel like a failure at relationships if they break-up with you when they recognise you are using them as a rebound. This can lead to you then trying to get over multiple break-ups in quick succession and simply adding more layers to your pain rather than learning to exist alone again and to process your feeling about it.
3) Can send an image that you weren’t actually invested and had other options waiting in the wings the whole time. This is often true with guys even. Women are more likely to take a short break from dating immediately after a break-up and be single for a while, while a man will usually start forging a new relationship to jump into before the old one has even ended.
4) There isn’t a downside to waiting a week or two and to spend some time focused on other things. If being single is completely unbearable to you, that is often a sign you have attachment issues to sort out.
5) There is no entitlement to a mourning period, but socially, people will think it is a jerk move to start dating someone else immediately in the same way that if you friend was robbed, you wouldn’t be expected to be making thief/robber jokes to their face 5 seconds after finding out about it.
Socially, as a human being, you are expected to not do something you know will make someone feel worse – you’re not expected to NEVER be allowed to do the thing, but to have the decency to let the pain be less raw before acting.
I completely disagree with most of your points – most notably, people can feel bad about anything and interpret it as harmful to them if they want. Also, there’s no guarantee that the timing for a new relationship will be right in a few weeks, so yes, there can be a downside.
But I do admit you answered my question of why, even if I wholeheartedly disagree.
Much of this seems like things to consider especially if there is a pattern but not absolute reasons.
Like most things in human relationships. (At least in most current cultures – in some there were much stricter rules.)
Things you should be concerned about and consider, out of respect and concern for those you care about. Things that others may look askance at, because it will appear as if you do not have that respect and concern.
Reasons to be wary of moving too quickly, but not absolute reasons to never do so.
EVEN if she wasn’t oh so eager to pair him off with Amber, relationships aren’t entitled to mourning periods. Joyce certainly doesn’t think they are, seeing as she spent half an arc trying to break up an EXISTING relationship.
They might not be entitled to it, but that doesn’t make it less of a jerk move in people’s eyes to do something you know will hurt someone else that you have stated and shown you care about previously.
And yet Joyce had no issue with the Walky/Amber relationship when she thought she was having a hand in it.
It might be a jerk move in other people’s eyes, but that doesn’t justify anyone going around screaming about what a degenerate sleaze they are. That’s also a giant jerk move. Joyce can be upset or concerned about Dorothy and her feelings in this, but ultimately it has nothing to do with her what Walky does with other people.
In which Joyce becomes Tenko Chabashira for a second
I consistently mix up SNL and NFL so I was very confused at the idea of the NFL being highly quotable
The only sports quotes that I can come up with are “I’m a man! I’m 40!” “Aaand boom goes the dynamite,” and “…Oh.”
I mean, cmon Sarah. Cut Walky some slack! Joyce in mad mode is a zone you wanna stay out of.
I’m hella down for that old SNL quote!
“I found out I’m THE DEVIL! And I will wash over the Earth, and the seas will run red with all the blood of all the sinners!”
And I’ve got you to thank.
I wonder how much of this is projected guilt for having read the fanfic.
>telling your friends that their problems are stupid teenager drama
Oh my god
I’m Sarah
Joyce: WALKY, YOU IGNORANT SLUT!