More superheroes should take up sporting events with their archnemeses to break the tension. Mario and Bowser get along much better since they started go-karting, golfing, and whatnot together.
Spider-Man tried that once. Wound up getting cut from the football team because he had to rescue the quarterback from kidnappers and so wasn’t on the bench for gametime.
Superheroes are awful athletes.
I should have just linked to this official recording. Youtube kinda sucks for music distribution, but its kinda the de facto music distribution medium for the general public, alas and alack.
Here’s a cute wee story about that… A very good friend of mine was given permission by Dr Coulton to write a full length musical, based on that song, and including some more of Jonathan’s works…
(I’ve also shared a stage with the man himself, in Glasgow a few years back!) 🙂
The stress and the late nights cramming and trying to finish your coursework while still having some modicum of a social life aren’t exactly conducive to ones brain working at peak capacity. I mean when I was in college they went through how much time I was expected to spend on study and assignments outside of class. Factoring in commute times, actual classes, my work study job, time to cook and eat, and eight hours of sleep they seemed to expect me to do all this work during a 25 hour day and not take any time for recreation. It feels like pretty much all educational systems in America are fucked up and engaging with them incompatable with functioning properly.
More like teachers are all told they have to give out a certain amount of ‘gradeable material’ and the school board doesn’t think about (or give a shit) how much that adds up to. And in university, most teachers have to have a certain amount of your grade determined before the drop date so you can drop if you’re having a hard time.
This one is a school administration thing, not a teacher thing.
Wow. The warmest I ever saw it was 114F/45C, in Southern Nevada.
I had to work on the flight line in that heat, though. A breeze would blow, and I’d look around to see if plane had taxied by and washed its jets over me.
My record is from 1969 or ’70. So far as I know, the hottest air temperature ever recorded in the U.S. was 134.1F, 56.7C, in Death Valley in 1913. That’s also the world record.
Thankfully there was no blackouts and my air-con still works OK, had to sleep in my recliner in front of the air-con though as it was still 34C/93F at midnight.
This reminds me of Pratchett’s theory, which is that universities have lots of knowledge because they vacuum it out of the students, as witnessed by the fact that they arrive knowing everything but leave knowing nothing. Where else could it have gone, after all?
“When you think you know everything, they give you a bachelors. When you realize you don’t know anything, they give you a masters. When you realize that no one else knows anything, either, they give you a Ph.D.”
I would assume that Marcie didn’t just happen to recognize Amber as Amazi-Girl from seeing her at the fight, but that she deduced it from her showing up with Sal knowing that Sal had been partnering with Amazi-Girl.
So that is . . . how many people knowing Amber’s secret identity now? Don’t get me wrong I approve, it means that she can’t hide behind the persona now, and hopefully it means that she is slowly coming terms to her issues to the point of being willing to go to therapy.
I have to believe that either Green Arrow’s incredibly distinctive beard was the most common men’s facial hair style in Star City, or everyone was just humoring him.
In the comics it’s been acknowledged a few times that the only reason he has a secret identity is because literally nobody cares who he is. The whole Arrow family had a big problem with this: Ollie had the beard, Roy stopped wearing masks and switched to sunglasses that fell off a lot, Connor had a skin/hair combo that made him pretty unique.
Those who know: Dorothy, Walky, Danny, Sal, Ethan, Ruth, Dina, and now Marcie.
Those who don’t: Joyce, Billie, Sarah, Malaya, Lucy, Leslie, Becky, Mike, Roz, Jacob and Carla. (And sure, if you wanna throw in people with cast bios in the books, Mary, and Raidah don’t know either).
At some point, either Amber or Amazi-Girl is going to remember the old adage “three can keep a secret if two are dead,” and the campus cops are going to get really, really busy.
There’s the whole cast of questionable content too. As it has been proved this is somehow the same universe, even though there are no ais here. Damn you spooky bot for covering it up!
New headcannon: Carla is still an AI in this universe, created by her parents, but they’re keeping it a secret with help from spookybot. Carla is still trans as she changed from a male to a female chassis.
God, I get that Amber’s got anxiety and it sucks for her right now, but I really feel for Marcie and respect her patience here. Managing other people’s guilt (“I’m sorry. I should know ASL. *cringe*”) is exhausting sometimes, and though Amber is trying to manage her own social anxiety, the consequence is pushing it off onto Marcie.
This is to say that Amber is Bad and Cancelled and going into the same pit Billie and Walky are in BOOM I WIN, I WIN THE DOA DISCOURSE
(Or everyone in this comic is flawed and while I personally find what Amber’s doing to be kind of tiring, it’s a very common and understandable mistake and in no way makes her a bad person overall.)
I really really REALLY do not want to be offensive and I apologize SO MUCH in advance if I am. Your post and this strip raises an issue with which I struggle sometimes.
I am privileged in a lot of ways. For example, I am a cisgender person who once in a while has misgendered someone (I have worked really hard to switch over to “they/them” pronouns unless I know someone’s preferred pronouns for sure). I am also a white woman who has used offensive language without realizing it (for example, when I was a kid I remember talking about someone being an “Indian giver” and when I got cheated out of something I used to say “I got gypped” until not all that long ago).
OF COURSE I have addressed all these things as soon as I have become aware of them. And more than once I have been told that it is not anyone else’s job to educate me or to accomodate my offensive ignorance, but MY JOB to know better and do better and to educate myself, and to apologize.
(I’m working very hard on that.)
I kind of stink at languages besides English, which is my native language. This is not for lack of trying – I have studied French, Russian, Latin, and a wee bit of German and Spanish, and nothing seemed to stick. But just because I don’t speak any language other than English doesn’t mean that people who speak other languages have to accommodate me and switch to my mode of communication (especially because being fluent in English represents a degree of privilege in a lot of the world, IMHO).
It kind of seems to me like Marcie is “accommodating” Amber here by texting. Amber has the privilege of being part of a place and time when spoken language is considered the “norm.” Maybe she SHOULD feel guilty about not knowing how to communicate in other ways. A really quick google search shows me that while the number of ASL-users in the U.S. is hard to determine, it is probably over 500,000 and may reach into the millions.
I’m…kind of struggling with this and I don’t think anyone should have to manage anyone else’s guilt. But I feel like maybe Amber is being half-decent by admitting her inadequacy here and kind of saying that it’s not Marcie’s job to conform to Amber’s privileged standards?
I don’t know.
I also may be too tired to formulate my thoughts in any kind of coherent way.
I think the issue is more that it’s tiring for a marginalized person to be constantly receiving performative regret. Although I don’t think Amber’s being overbearing with it here. I’ve often seen worse, I mean. Where people make it all about them and their feelings. I don’t think Amber’s really doing that here.
Marcie’s being super gracious though. I kinda expected her to strongly dislike amber
I’m not sure this is performative regret, though that may not matter to how many spoons it might take for Marcie here. I’ve been on both sides of this situation (though with trans issues, no one has ever given a fuck about accommodating my disabilities until they were forced to <.<) and I think Amber genuinely believes it's her fault that there's even minor trouble communicating, and not because it makes her look bad or she thinks Marcie's a glass figurine.
tl;dr She ain't okay right now, and that’s still exhausting to deal with, and doesn’t necessarily blunt the effect of her words.
Again, excellent points. IMHO, this is hard to negotiate. I also feel like Amber has psychological issues that are not totally recognized by the mental health community (I do NOT want to get into a discussion of DID right now) and she is also marginalized.
But I agree that Marcie may not have the spoons to deal with Amber’s stuff right now. Like you, I have been on both sides of this. I am a very visibly white woman (I am so white I practially glow in the dark) with a long-term partner who identifies as male. However, I am also Queer, and I have a chronic medical problem (a major deep vein thrombosis due to a congenital blood-clotting disorder) that technically means I am differently abled. And yeah, I have been in the same position where no one gave a f*ck about my disability until I kind of cornered them and told them they HAD TO. For quite a while, I was too embarrassed to say anything at my work or at my school until it got to the point that I was literally collapsing from taking on work that I physically couldn’t do.
I am very sorry if I am making an unfair comparison here; I am cisgender and while I try to be very, very aware of Trans* issues and Trans* identity (I teach a Queer Literature course at my college), I know that my experience as a cisgender person doesn’t compare to yours.
I honestly believe that words are powerful. I am an English professor and I also have been initiated into various magickal systems. I try to consider my words carefully before speaking/writing them. But…I think sometimes we don’t always know the effects of our words? Or that fact that other people use words differently, or, in Marcie’s case, use words in a way that some people may not understand or may not want to?
I am very sorry that you have had unfair diffficulties and yeah, it is often tough to have enough spoons to deal with all of this sh!te.
“The spoon theory is a disability metaphor (for a combination of ego depletion, fatigue, and other factors) and neologism used to explain the reduced amount of mental and physical energy available for activities of living and productive tasks that may result from disability or chronic illness. A person only has a limited number of “spoons” that are consumed by activities throughout a day.”
But the fact is that Amber doesn’t know ASL, she knows she’s in the wrong for that (even if it comes from a larger societal problem where it should be taught at schools etc etc), but she can’t do anything to solve the situation instantly. What she needs to do right now is to convey the message that unfortunately she does not understand ASL, and that she’s aware that it’s on her. She’s apologizing for causing the difficulty in communication, which is just trying to be polite. The way she did it here, it’s not performative at all, I think she genuinely thinks this way.
I see the argument and maybe she should feel bad, but by the same token we shouldn’t just single out Amber for this. Everyone else in the comic, except Sal, is in the same boat, except they haven’t interacted with Marcie yet. Even Malaya was when they met. And so are the vast majority of readers.
At that point, I’d put it as a societal issue, not a personal fault. Especially for college freshmen. If there should be an expectation that college kids have a particular complex skill, then it really needs to be taught in school.
Just a question, is it really reasonable to expect that everyone should learn ASL when the proportion of people who need to use it is what, 1:300 or so, using the numbers Jaime posted upthread? Using that logic, everyone should also have to speak Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, Tagalog, etc., based on a quick google search I just did.
What’s kinda bothering me in this conversation is like, what would have been the better option for Amber to do? Is she just automatically in the wrong for not having the necessary tools? Is any attempt at being in the same sphere as her problematic until then? Even her attempts at apology do nothing more than put more stress on marginilized party. Her best efforts at trying to help will do nothing more than lead to more harm and she should have never tried to meet in the first place.
It’s why I generally stay out of this. It sometimes seems like the only thing that isn’t problematic is to just be invisible, remove yourself from view and make yourself unseen. Forget about your anxiety, it only makes you a burden and a nuisance to everyone around you. Don’t complain about how you feel, this isn’t about you and you are insignificant. The space you are taking up is better served by more useful people, along with everything else in life that you don’t deserve and you didn’t earn, your mere existance is an anathema, your only choice to make it better is oblivion.
Basically, the apology is the only real problem here (and the way it clearly pains her). If you make a mistake, the most useful thing to do is act PROPORTIONATELY. If Marcie isn’t very upset, just acknowledge an error and move on. If I’m misgendered, it’s fine, shit happens, but don’t apologize unless I ask you to. Amber’s anxiety, though, makes it difficult for her to do the Perfect Thing Here, which is fine. It happens.
Anyways, remember: 99% of the time, apologies are for the benefit of the person apologizing.
there’s a Leif&Thorn comic addressing this, iirc, not sure if I can find it though… while I look for it I’ll just say that reasonable effort should be enough, and it’s a privilege simply to *have* the thousands of hours of free time needed to learn a new language.
(and darnit, I forget what email capitalization I used before, apparently it’s not a thing firefox syncs)
I wonder what Marcie’s voice synth sounds like. Perhaps she uses a different voice every time she uses it. This time it might sound like Telly Savalas.
If Marcy gets a wheel chair she can start writing books about how the universe can exist with a scientific explanation that doesn’t require a divine creator.
I guess it stands to reason. Marcie would be party to most of Amazi-Girl’s encounters with Sal. Sal makes a friend, despite hardly ever making friends.
The math isn’t the hardest for someone in Marcie’s position.
Branding is important for superheroes and villains. Without a good gimmick, a supervillain is just an ordinary criminal. Without the whole bat theme, Bruce Wayne is just a rich weirdo who likes to punch people.
I still like whichever fairly recent comic it was that’s doing Batman’s early years again, when he gives Gordon a cell phone with one button to contact him, and Gordon just looks at it and goes “Oh FFS, he actually put a bat on it.” (Or words to that effect.)
From lacking a certain skill set for a convenient occasion to having her secret identity easily discovered. This just proves that Amber is lacking that Batman / Bruce Wayne finesse.
Unless the question was about text-to-speech and why she can’t turn down the volume so _her phone_ whispers “you’re Amazi-Girl”. I think the answer to that is it’s easier to show her the screen than to change volume settings to whisper and then back to normal volume.
I don’t know a word of ASL can maybe remember a few words of ASL I picked up somewhere, but I do know how to read context enough to know those signs too.
How did no one ever figure out that Clark Kent is Superman? How did no one figure out that He-Man is Prince Adam? How did no one figure out that Miley Stewart is Hannah Montana?
The whole narrative collapses upon itself if the secret identity that is obvious to the reader is also obvious in-universe.
For similar reasons, it is pointless to wonder about weight of Batman’s utility belt, or the storage location of Amazi-Girl’s caltrops and grappling hook.
“How did no one ever figure out that Clark Kent is Superman? How did no one figure out that He-Man is Prince Adam?” Second one is a legit question, since the difference between those is next-to-none.
Clark Kent, though, is a different person than Superman. How well this is shown depends on the artist’s or actor’s portrayal. Cristopher Reeves did a very good job at making them different, so let’s take him as our example Superman/Kent.
I mean, people say Superman only puts on some glasses to be Clark Kent. Which is wrong, but glasses can make a big difference. Like Bob Burnquist the skater. With his glasses on, he looks like the coolest geek on the block. And without his glasses, he looks…. well, like the kind of athlete that gets front page pictures. It’s fucking scary how different he looks simply with or without glasses.
And Clark Kent wears glasses with bigger frames, and with thicker and more distorting lenses than Bob does.
Of smaller importance is that the hair is also different, but I will notice that ideally, it is different. If it’s not, it’s a bad Superman.
But then we have the clothes. Now, I’m not talking about the simple difference of colours, but what their respective costumes convey, and more importantly, how their behaviour strengthens this.
Superman’s outfit is one that is showing off his body in every way; and he’s standing tall and proud. He wants to be noticed. He oozes confidence in every muscle; and my goodness, there are quite a few of them, aren’t there?
Whereas Clark’s suits hides his body in every way, and so does he. His body language is timid, clumsy, nervous, hesitant. He doesn’t want to be noticed; and, apart from when the trips over someone, nobody does. He’s such an average guy in a suit you couldn’t even begin to even speculate that this could be Superman. He even shrinks himself so as to look a lot shorter than he really is; and you have to -look- at someone to notice that kind of thing. And nobody bothers to look at him twice. They barely notice him once.
Incidentally, even this textbook example of how Clark/Superman -should- be portrayed, it turned out that people -did- figure out his secret, because he made the mistake of mingling with the same people in both personas. No matter how unnoticeable you initially are; if you hang out with the same people all the time, they will eventually pay attention.
But the Vulcan death shoulder grip has many uses; it can also induce amnesia, so that’s all right.
At the same time, even around people you see a lot – if you have a coworker who looks like John Stamos, you’re probably not going to assume they actually secretly are John Stamos.
Sure, but a guy who looks heavier, shorter (if only because he slouches), behaves a lot differently, and has different hair and glasses – plus John Stamos is well known as not living in your city? Probably not.
(Most people in the comics believe Superman lives in his fortress of solitude iirc).
I was going to point out a very funny webcomic that played with the “glasses as a disguise for supers” trope, but I can’t remember the name or find a link to it. In it, in a whole family of supers, if he put on a pair of glasses, while standing in front of his family members, they would instantly not recognize him.
Not quite the same, but Supervillianous played with this same thing a few weeks ago. The Superman-exspy is dating the main character’s ( a super villian, obviously.) sister. Not-Clark Kent comes over for dinner and the main character only recognizes him when he takes his glasses off to clean them. As an additional joke, everyone else thought the main character knew already.
Amber is practically a hermit to most of the campus; it has been proven multiple times that celebrities entering their own lookalike contests will fail to be recognised as the real person as people naturally start to come up with reasons they can’t be them; Amazi-Girl comes across as an extrovert jock while Amber comes across as an introvert nerd which does not compute as the same person.
Psychologically, people are designed to be pretty inept in this kind of scenario essentially because humans natural pattern finding works against them (AG = confident when seen therefore must always be confident for example) and well, in reality, most of these people have only met AG and Amber a very limited number of times across like, 6 and a 1/2 weeks.
There was a common theory Lena Luthor knew Supergirl and Kara were the same because she’s the smartest most awesome human on Earth. Then it got dashed when Lena told Kara how much she couldn’t trust Supergirl ever again because of her SECRET IDENTITY.
Lena Luthor the literal super genius not knowing Kara “I flew here on a bus” Danvers is Supergirl is one of the most unrealistic parts of a show where the main character is a super powered space alien.
The fact that Willis had Marcie type the word “Amazi-girl” on her smartphone and display it makes me wonder just how a person would sign “Amazi-girl” in AMSLAN … or would one resort to finger-spelling?
I don’t know ASL, but my limited understanding is that you’d spell it out, but if you’re regularly gonna use that word with the same people you might come up with a specific gesture for it to save time?
It will be interesting to see just how this develops. Marcie must know who and what Amazi-Girl is in the context of Sal and her issues, yet there is no accusation or anger here.
I suppose you might be right. Marcie might just think Amber is Sal’s partner from the superhero side of the fence. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Marcie has always thought of Sal as being a Huntress-like figure.
If she hasn’t pieced together the rest of it (which would make sense – while Marcie knows the kid who’s been held hostage is at Sal’s school, she has no reason to know the girl who stabbed her is there too – or even necessarily what the girl who stabbed Sal looked like to piece it together from that), this will be a very fun dynamic indeed.
Probably just social anxiety guilt because she knows someone who uses it and she can’t understand them and she is probably aware that it would make life easier for people like Marcie if more people bothered to learn sign language or were taught it.
Both, I think. Marcie remembers Amber from when Sal came to the roller derby to compete with her but she has also figured out that the quiet girl who previously seemed so terrified of Sal is also the costumed vigilante the seemed to be stalking her.
I doubt Marcie’s ever seen “the quiet girl who previously seemed so terrified of Sal.” Sal had barely registered Amber and Marcie wasn’t there any of the times they’d met.
She knew Sal had been working with AG. That’s by far the most likely way for her to make the connection.
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More superheroes should take up sporting events with their archnemeses to break the tension. Mario and Bowser get along much better since they started go-karting, golfing, and whatnot together.
And just look how much better adjusted these two are!
Spider-Man tried that once. Wound up getting cut from the football team because he had to rescue the quarterback from kidnappers and so wasn’t on the bench for gametime.
Superheroes are awful athletes.
And supervillains always CHEAT when they play sports.
So does Hawkeye.
I can’t tell if you’re serious, and I both love and hate that.
I.
Uh.
What?
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
BUTTMAN!
I mean, BATBUTT!
I mean….
Curse you, butts!
In my mind I hear Nythendra – Butts is a disease!
We went by the name Bluntman in college.
It worked out for the Princess Who Saved Herself and her archnemeses the Dragon and the Witch.
Now they play together in a trio, mostly math rock and cuddle core.
I should have just linked to this official recording. Youtube kinda sucks for music distribution, but its kinda the de facto music distribution medium for the general public, alas and alack.
Here’s a cute wee story about that… A very good friend of mine was given permission by Dr Coulton to write a full length musical, based on that song, and including some more of Jonathan’s works…
(I’ve also shared a stage with the man himself, in Glasgow a few years back!) 🙂
I hope it got produced. I would totally go out at night to see that, and I haven’t gone out at night for anything in years.
That was a glorious time for television and superheroes.
when they haul me off to the happy home and feed me medical marijuana mcmuffins, I can only hope the TVs are showing bat-reruns like those
I remember watching that episode when it was new.
Learning ASL’s HARD tho! It’s like a whole other language!
Is that a Steve Martin reference?
Maybe everyone outside of campus can just recognize how obvious it is that Amber is Amazigirl
Are you unintentionally implying that enrolling in university makes you stupider?
Enrolling in university makes you question everything — at least, it does if your university is doing it right. That’s a feature, not a bug.
The stress and the late nights cramming and trying to finish your coursework while still having some modicum of a social life aren’t exactly conducive to ones brain working at peak capacity. I mean when I was in college they went through how much time I was expected to spend on study and assignments outside of class. Factoring in commute times, actual classes, my work study job, time to cook and eat, and eight hours of sleep they seemed to expect me to do all this work during a 25 hour day and not take any time for recreation. It feels like pretty much all educational systems in America are fucked up and engaging with them incompatable with functioning properly.
All teachers believe they’re the only ones who assign homework.
More like teachers are all told they have to give out a certain amount of ‘gradeable material’ and the school board doesn’t think about (or give a shit) how much that adds up to. And in university, most teachers have to have a certain amount of your grade determined before the drop date so you can drop if you’re having a hard time.
This one is a school administration thing, not a teacher thing.
They’re teaching you how to deal with corporate America, which DEFINITELY expects you to work 25 hours a day and have no social life.
Which incidentally also teaches you how poorly educated your typical manager is going to be, that they think 25 hours in a day is even possible.
Having an MBA means you never have to math.
…apparently, I’m in dire need of an MBA. brb.
Well this has to be cold “Dumbing of Age” for a Reason right?
Cold? Over here in Oz it got up to 47C/117F and even getting close to sunset, it is still 43C/109F now.
Woo! A fellow Auzzie! (admittedly here we only got up to 39°C/102°F and is now down to 35°C/95°F – I do not envy you…)
I hope it will drop below 18C/64F at night so the bricks can lose all the extra heat it has stored up.
yes, but it’s a dry killing heat
That was the only good thing, if the humidity was 40% or more, the suffering would have been worse.
Wow. The warmest I ever saw it was 114F/45C, in Southern Nevada.
I had to work on the flight line in that heat, though. A breeze would blow, and I’d look around to see if plane had taxied by and washed its jets over me.
It was a new record, the previous record was over 90 years ago.
My record is from 1969 or ’70. So far as I know, the hottest air temperature ever recorded in the U.S. was 134.1F, 56.7C, in Death Valley in 1913. That’s also the world record.
Daaaaaaang, how are you not melting 😓
Thankfully there was no blackouts and my air-con still works OK, had to sleep in my recliner in front of the air-con though as it was still 34C/93F at midnight.
This reminds me of Pratchett’s theory, which is that universities have lots of knowledge because they vacuum it out of the students, as witnessed by the fact that they arrive knowing everything but leave knowing nothing. Where else could it have gone, after all?
Alternatively:
“When you think you know everything, they give you a bachelors. When you realize you don’t know anything, they give you a masters. When you realize that no one else knows anything, either, they give you a Ph.D.”
And, in the end, all you truly recall of your experiences are the copious amounts of alcohol you imbibed at every step along the way.
What if you got through it all without alcohol?
Then you get an achievement badge in the special features section of the game. 😀
Then your profs get mad at you.
https://somethingpositive.net/sp01232014.shtml
Most likely, they are focusing on the brightly colored costume. Or something.
The Clark Kent effect.
I would assume that Marcie didn’t just happen to recognize Amber as Amazi-Girl from seeing her at the fight, but that she deduced it from her showing up with Sal knowing that Sal had been partnering with Amazi-Girl.
So Marcie doesn’t know about the whole…earlier incident.
Well that was an Amazmistake
ooh, you’re half-right
So that is . . . how many people knowing Amber’s secret identity now? Don’t get me wrong I approve, it means that she can’t hide behind the persona now, and hopefully it means that she is slowly coming terms to her issues to the point of being willing to go to therapy.
Letsee…
Amber, Dina, Dorothy, Ethan, Danny, Sal, Walky, Ryan, Marcie, and Blowjob Cat.
Did I get them all?
You forgot Ronald Reagan, who observes everything on the great VHS recorder in the sky
and Ruth.
And here I thought Green Arrow was bad at keeping his identity secret.
If you don’t cover your entire face, your secret identity will not remain a secret for long, especially in the age of facial recognition software.
I have to believe that either Green Arrow’s incredibly distinctive beard was the most common men’s facial hair style in Star City, or everyone was just humoring him.
In the comics it’s been acknowledged a few times that the only reason he has a secret identity is because literally nobody cares who he is. The whole Arrow family had a big problem with this: Ollie had the beard, Roy stopped wearing masks and switched to sunglasses that fell off a lot, Connor had a skin/hair combo that made him pretty unique.
Dammit, DoA, how dare you make me do math. 😛
Those who know: Dorothy, Walky, Danny, Sal, Ethan, Ruth, Dina, and now Marcie.
Those who don’t: Joyce, Billie, Sarah, Malaya, Lucy, Leslie, Becky, Mike, Roz, Jacob and Carla. (And sure, if you wanna throw in people with cast bios in the books, Mary, and Raidah don’t know either).
At some point, either Amber or Amazi-Girl is going to remember the old adage “three can keep a secret if two are dead,” and the campus cops are going to get really, really busy.
Consider: no
Or dead.
Wow what is this Joe erasure
Oh, wow, I didn’t realize he got left off.
Well, he doesn’t know either, IIRC. 😛
There’s the whole cast of questionable content too. As it has been proved this is somehow the same universe, even though there are no ais here. Damn you spooky bot for covering it up!
New headcannon: Carla is still an AI in this universe, created by her parents, but they’re keeping it a secret with help from spookybot. Carla is still trans as she changed from a male to a female chassis.
Billie thinks she knows.
Oh, every time people bring that up, it gets funnier.
Amber isn’t “hiding behind the persona.”
Poor planning, Amber 😛
Being Batman requires a Bruce Wayne-sized bank account.
Uncountable wealth is a superpower of Batman’s.
And the ability to turn your mind into a utility belt. I bet Batman would know ASL.
Well he has connections on Gallifrey who supplied him with his belt and useful mind techniques.
Rollerskates aren’t that expensive!
It’s nice to see Marcie just having a nice time instead of the usual angst and drama 🙂
So that is a no Marcie doesn’t know about the stabbing yet? I wonder how that little piece of information goes over with Marcie.
“You stabbed my friend?!? Huh. Understandable.”
Aaaaaa Marcie smile! The world needs more Marcie smiles.
She also doesn’t even seem mad about AG messing up Marcie’s security guard thing.
So I’m not the only one loving that smile!! XD
I think Marcie has a history of things and people to forgive, possibly.
God, I get that Amber’s got anxiety and it sucks for her right now, but I really feel for Marcie and respect her patience here. Managing other people’s guilt (“I’m sorry. I should know ASL. *cringe*”) is exhausting sometimes, and though Amber is trying to manage her own social anxiety, the consequence is pushing it off onto Marcie.
This is to say that Amber is Bad and Cancelled and going into the same pit Billie and Walky are in BOOM I WIN, I WIN THE DOA DISCOURSE
(Or everyone in this comic is flawed and while I personally find what Amber’s doing to be kind of tiring, it’s a very common and understandable mistake and in no way makes her a bad person overall.)
I really really REALLY do not want to be offensive and I apologize SO MUCH in advance if I am. Your post and this strip raises an issue with which I struggle sometimes.
I am privileged in a lot of ways. For example, I am a cisgender person who once in a while has misgendered someone (I have worked really hard to switch over to “they/them” pronouns unless I know someone’s preferred pronouns for sure). I am also a white woman who has used offensive language without realizing it (for example, when I was a kid I remember talking about someone being an “Indian giver” and when I got cheated out of something I used to say “I got gypped” until not all that long ago).
OF COURSE I have addressed all these things as soon as I have become aware of them. And more than once I have been told that it is not anyone else’s job to educate me or to accomodate my offensive ignorance, but MY JOB to know better and do better and to educate myself, and to apologize.
(I’m working very hard on that.)
I kind of stink at languages besides English, which is my native language. This is not for lack of trying – I have studied French, Russian, Latin, and a wee bit of German and Spanish, and nothing seemed to stick. But just because I don’t speak any language other than English doesn’t mean that people who speak other languages have to accommodate me and switch to my mode of communication (especially because being fluent in English represents a degree of privilege in a lot of the world, IMHO).
It kind of seems to me like Marcie is “accommodating” Amber here by texting. Amber has the privilege of being part of a place and time when spoken language is considered the “norm.” Maybe she SHOULD feel guilty about not knowing how to communicate in other ways. A really quick google search shows me that while the number of ASL-users in the U.S. is hard to determine, it is probably over 500,000 and may reach into the millions.
I’m…kind of struggling with this and I don’t think anyone should have to manage anyone else’s guilt. But I feel like maybe Amber is being half-decent by admitting her inadequacy here and kind of saying that it’s not Marcie’s job to conform to Amber’s privileged standards?
I don’t know.
I also may be too tired to formulate my thoughts in any kind of coherent way.
I think the issue is more that it’s tiring for a marginalized person to be constantly receiving performative regret. Although I don’t think Amber’s being overbearing with it here. I’ve often seen worse, I mean. Where people make it all about them and their feelings. I don’t think Amber’s really doing that here.
Marcie’s being super gracious though. I kinda expected her to strongly dislike amber
Excellent points. Do you think it would have been better for Amber to just say, “I don’t know ASL?”
I’m not sure this is performative regret, though that may not matter to how many spoons it might take for Marcie here. I’ve been on both sides of this situation (though with trans issues, no one has ever given a fuck about accommodating my disabilities until they were forced to <.<) and I think Amber genuinely believes it's her fault that there's even minor trouble communicating, and not because it makes her look bad or she thinks Marcie's a glass figurine.
tl;dr She ain't okay right now, and that’s still exhausting to deal with, and doesn’t necessarily blunt the effect of her words.
Again, excellent points. IMHO, this is hard to negotiate. I also feel like Amber has psychological issues that are not totally recognized by the mental health community (I do NOT want to get into a discussion of DID right now) and she is also marginalized.
But I agree that Marcie may not have the spoons to deal with Amber’s stuff right now. Like you, I have been on both sides of this. I am a very visibly white woman (I am so white I practially glow in the dark) with a long-term partner who identifies as male. However, I am also Queer, and I have a chronic medical problem (a major deep vein thrombosis due to a congenital blood-clotting disorder) that technically means I am differently abled. And yeah, I have been in the same position where no one gave a f*ck about my disability until I kind of cornered them and told them they HAD TO. For quite a while, I was too embarrassed to say anything at my work or at my school until it got to the point that I was literally collapsing from taking on work that I physically couldn’t do.
I am very sorry if I am making an unfair comparison here; I am cisgender and while I try to be very, very aware of Trans* issues and Trans* identity (I teach a Queer Literature course at my college), I know that my experience as a cisgender person doesn’t compare to yours.
I honestly believe that words are powerful. I am an English professor and I also have been initiated into various magickal systems. I try to consider my words carefully before speaking/writing them. But…I think sometimes we don’t always know the effects of our words? Or that fact that other people use words differently, or, in Marcie’s case, use words in a way that some people may not understand or may not want to?
I am very sorry that you have had unfair diffficulties and yeah, it is often tough to have enough spoons to deal with all of this sh!te.
Um… spoons?
“The spoon theory is a disability metaphor (for a combination of ego depletion, fatigue, and other factors) and neologism used to explain the reduced amount of mental and physical energy available for activities of living and productive tasks that may result from disability or chronic illness. A person only has a limited number of “spoons” that are consumed by activities throughout a day.”
(From Wikipedia: Spoon Theory)
Thanks.
But the fact is that Amber doesn’t know ASL, she knows she’s in the wrong for that (even if it comes from a larger societal problem where it should be taught at schools etc etc), but she can’t do anything to solve the situation instantly. What she needs to do right now is to convey the message that unfortunately she does not understand ASL, and that she’s aware that it’s on her. She’s apologizing for causing the difficulty in communication, which is just trying to be polite. The way she did it here, it’s not performative at all, I think she genuinely thinks this way.
I see the argument and maybe she should feel bad, but by the same token we shouldn’t just single out Amber for this. Everyone else in the comic, except Sal, is in the same boat, except they haven’t interacted with Marcie yet. Even Malaya was when they met. And so are the vast majority of readers.
At that point, I’d put it as a societal issue, not a personal fault. Especially for college freshmen. If there should be an expectation that college kids have a particular complex skill, then it really needs to be taught in school.
Just a question, is it really reasonable to expect that everyone should learn ASL when the proportion of people who need to use it is what, 1:300 or so, using the numbers Jaime posted upthread? Using that logic, everyone should also have to speak Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, Tagalog, etc., based on a quick google search I just did.
What’s kinda bothering me in this conversation is like, what would have been the better option for Amber to do? Is she just automatically in the wrong for not having the necessary tools? Is any attempt at being in the same sphere as her problematic until then? Even her attempts at apology do nothing more than put more stress on marginilized party. Her best efforts at trying to help will do nothing more than lead to more harm and she should have never tried to meet in the first place.
I honestly don’t know. I struggle with this kind of stuff A LOT.
It’s why I generally stay out of this. It sometimes seems like the only thing that isn’t problematic is to just be invisible, remove yourself from view and make yourself unseen. Forget about your anxiety, it only makes you a burden and a nuisance to everyone around you. Don’t complain about how you feel, this isn’t about you and you are insignificant. The space you are taking up is better served by more useful people, along with everything else in life that you don’t deserve and you didn’t earn, your mere existance is an anathema, your only choice to make it better is oblivion.
Well, that’s pretty depressing – but you have described how I often feel. 🙁
🙁 I was kinda hoping you’d tell me why I was wrong. Don’t kill yourself.
Basically, the apology is the only real problem here (and the way it clearly pains her). If you make a mistake, the most useful thing to do is act PROPORTIONATELY. If Marcie isn’t very upset, just acknowledge an error and move on. If I’m misgendered, it’s fine, shit happens, but don’t apologize unless I ask you to. Amber’s anxiety, though, makes it difficult for her to do the Perfect Thing Here, which is fine. It happens.
Anyways, remember: 99% of the time, apologies are for the benefit of the person apologizing.
there’s a Leif&Thorn comic addressing this, iirc, not sure if I can find it though… while I look for it I’ll just say that reasonable effort should be enough, and it’s a privilege simply to *have* the thousands of hours of free time needed to learn a new language.
(and darnit, I forget what email capitalization I used before, apparently it’s not a thing firefox syncs)
…ok, it’s about a rather different topic, but the general theme of “how do I be perfectly supportive always” is there. http://leifandthorn.com/comic/extremely-competent-uncle-thorn-56/
…and the second page isn’t what you get when you hit ‘next’, so here it is: http://leifandthorn.com/comic/extremely-competent-uncle-thorn-66/
By the end of DoA Marcie will know everything about everyone. And will be the only one who does.
She will have SO Much blackmail material.
And will never have to work as a baby cop again.
Marcie’s smiles are the sweetest things and I love them and I am SO HAPPY <333
I wonder if that's all she's figured out about Amber, though. If not, that'll be a fun conversation (which will hopefully be followed by one with Sal and end along these lines: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/erase/)
And geez, Amber, stop reminding me of me. It's making me uncomfortable with how much I go 'dammit, I should've known that'.
Let’s see… Yes. The number is Yes. Minus Billie, because she still thinks it’s Sal.
That was suppose to be a reply. Have I mentioned how much I dislike this comment system?
I wonder what Marcie’s voice synth sounds like. Perhaps she uses a different voice every time she uses it. This time it might sound like Telly Savalas.
I’m just happy to see the poor girl finally has some form of text to talk.
James Earl Jones with Darth Vader ventilator sounds.
It’s Tara Strong.
It’s always Tara Strong.
Perhaps something similar to the voice Stephen Hawking used?
GLaDOS.
This was a triumph
I’m making a note here
AMAZI-GIRL
Man or woman, one can never go wrong with Morgan Freeman.
If Marcy gets a wheel chair she can start writing books about how the universe can exist with a scientific explanation that doesn’t require a divine creator.
I think the lack of free time keeps her from that more than lack of wheelchair.
Oh $#+!
I guess it stands to reason. Marcie would be party to most of Amazi-Girl’s encounters with Sal. Sal makes a friend, despite hardly ever making friends.
The math isn’t the hardest for someone in Marcie’s position.
Wait… Amber’s AMAZI-GIRL?
Biggest. Plot Twist. Ever.
*dumbounded Billie face*
So is everything of her’s named Amazi-whatever? Like how Batman has the Batcomputer, the Batmobile, and the Bat-Shark Repellent?
Yes.
I’m more surprised when superheroes don’t name all their gadgets and stuff after their superhero name.
Like the Giant Lighted Lucite Map of Gotham City.
Branding is important for superheroes and villains. Without a good gimmick, a supervillain is just an ordinary criminal. Without the whole bat theme, Bruce Wayne is just a rich weirdo who likes to punch people.
With the bat theme, Bruce Wayne is a rich weirdo who likes to punch people while cosplaying.
I still like whichever fairly recent comic it was that’s doing Batman’s early years again, when he gives Gordon a cell phone with one button to contact him, and Gordon just looks at it and goes “Oh FFS, he actually put a bat on it.” (Or words to that effect.)
You know, in DC, there are at least three ways to parse ‘Bat-Shark Repellent’ and wouldn’t be surprised if they all in fact existed.
From lacking a certain skill set for a convenient occasion to having her secret identity easily discovered. This just proves that Amber is lacking that Batman / Bruce Wayne finesse.
Or at least his credit rating.
I bet Batman has the same problem.
Can someone tell me why Marcie can’t *whisper*??
We don’t know exactly what her injury was.
Whispering might be painful, and/or unintelligible.
Um…this was answered pretty thoroughly in the comments for yesterday’s comic? In response your question?
As mentioned in the comments of yesterday’s comic, certain types of throat injury can preclude being able to produce any sound.
Because she suffered severe enough damage to her vocal cords that they don’t work at all. Without them, there is no noise.
Not unless she pulls a Peter Frampton and hauls a guitar and talkbox around everywhere.
Unless the question was about text-to-speech and why she can’t turn down the volume so _her phone_ whispers “you’re Amazi-Girl”. I think the answer to that is it’s easier to show her the screen than to change volume settings to whisper and then back to normal volume.
Are you going to read the replies this time?
I’m in no way fluent with ASL so it was super exciting that I could understand what Marcie signed. (‘Remember’ ‘you’.)
I
don’t know a word of ASLcan maybe remember a few words of ASL I picked up somewhere, but I do know how to read context enough to know those signs too.How was it ever a secret in the first place??!!!!
How did no one ever figure out that Clark Kent is Superman? How did no one figure out that He-Man is Prince Adam? How did no one figure out that Miley Stewart is Hannah Montana?
The whole narrative collapses upon itself if the secret identity that is obvious to the reader is also obvious in-universe.
For similar reasons, it is pointless to wonder about weight of Batman’s utility belt, or the storage location of Amazi-Girl’s caltrops and grappling hook.
“How did no one ever figure out that Clark Kent is Superman? How did no one figure out that He-Man is Prince Adam?” Second one is a legit question, since the difference between those is next-to-none.
Clark Kent, though, is a different person than Superman. How well this is shown depends on the artist’s or actor’s portrayal. Cristopher Reeves did a very good job at making them different, so let’s take him as our example Superman/Kent.
I mean, people say Superman only puts on some glasses to be Clark Kent. Which is wrong, but glasses can make a big difference. Like Bob Burnquist the skater. With his glasses on, he looks like the coolest geek on the block. And without his glasses, he looks…. well, like the kind of athlete that gets front page pictures. It’s fucking scary how different he looks simply with or without glasses.
And Clark Kent wears glasses with bigger frames, and with thicker and more distorting lenses than Bob does.
Of smaller importance is that the hair is also different, but I will notice that ideally, it is different. If it’s not, it’s a bad Superman.
But then we have the clothes. Now, I’m not talking about the simple difference of colours, but what their respective costumes convey, and more importantly, how their behaviour strengthens this.
Superman’s outfit is one that is showing off his body in every way; and he’s standing tall and proud. He wants to be noticed. He oozes confidence in every muscle; and my goodness, there are quite a few of them, aren’t there?
Whereas Clark’s suits hides his body in every way, and so does he. His body language is timid, clumsy, nervous, hesitant. He doesn’t want to be noticed; and, apart from when the trips over someone, nobody does. He’s such an average guy in a suit you couldn’t even begin to even speculate that this could be Superman. He even shrinks himself so as to look a lot shorter than he really is; and you have to -look- at someone to notice that kind of thing. And nobody bothers to look at him twice. They barely notice him once.
Incidentally, even this textbook example of how Clark/Superman -should- be portrayed, it turned out that people -did- figure out his secret, because he made the mistake of mingling with the same people in both personas. No matter how unnoticeable you initially are; if you hang out with the same people all the time, they will eventually pay attention.
But the Vulcan death shoulder grip has many uses; it can also induce amnesia, so that’s all right.
At the same time, even around people you see a lot – if you have a coworker who looks like John Stamos, you’re probably not going to assume they actually secretly are John Stamos.
I would if he looked exactly like John Stamos and I lived in the same city as John Stamos.
Sure, but a guy who looks heavier, shorter (if only because he slouches), behaves a lot differently, and has different hair and glasses – plus John Stamos is well known as not living in your city? Probably not.
(Most people in the comics believe Superman lives in his fortress of solitude iirc).
I was going to point out a very funny webcomic that played with the “glasses as a disguise for supers” trope, but I can’t remember the name or find a link to it. In it, in a whole family of supers, if he put on a pair of glasses, while standing in front of his family members, they would instantly not recognize him.
Not quite the same, but Supervillianous played with this same thing a few weeks ago. The Superman-exspy is dating the main character’s ( a super villian, obviously.) sister. Not-Clark Kent comes over for dinner and the main character only recognizes him when he takes his glasses off to clean them. As an additional joke, everyone else thought the main character knew already.
Clark Kent – I think probably everyone is just humoring him since he’s nice. You don’t want the almost almighty dude to feel stupid.
Prince Adam – He’s wearing some form of harness and a fur loin cloth. That would draw anyones eyes.
Because Amber simply doesn’t seem a plausible secret identity for Amazi-Girl in most people’s eyes. It’s psychological but oh-so effective a disguise.
The obsessive superhero geek who has the exact same build, hair length/colour, and facial structure is the most plausible secret identity.
I like to think there’s some in-universe suspension of disbelief around Amazi-Girl.
Amber’s practically a hermit too, that also helps.
Amber is practically a hermit to most of the campus; it has been proven multiple times that celebrities entering their own lookalike contests will fail to be recognised as the real person as people naturally start to come up with reasons they can’t be them; Amazi-Girl comes across as an extrovert jock while Amber comes across as an introvert nerd which does not compute as the same person.
Psychologically, people are designed to be pretty inept in this kind of scenario essentially because humans natural pattern finding works against them (AG = confident when seen therefore must always be confident for example) and well, in reality, most of these people have only met AG and Amber a very limited number of times across like, 6 and a 1/2 weeks.
There was a common theory Lena Luthor knew Supergirl and Kara were the same because she’s the smartest most awesome human on Earth. Then it got dashed when Lena told Kara how much she couldn’t trust Supergirl ever again because of her SECRET IDENTITY.
Lena Luthor the literal super genius not knowing Kara “I flew here on a bus” Danvers is Supergirl is one of the most unrealistic parts of a show where the main character is a super powered space alien.
I’m shocked. Shocked I say. My gast has never been so flabbered.
Dumbing of founds
The fact that Willis had Marcie type the word “Amazi-girl” on her smartphone and display it makes me wonder just how a person would sign “Amazi-girl” in AMSLAN … or would one resort to finger-spelling?
I don’t know ASL, but my limited understanding is that you’d spell it out, but if you’re regularly gonna use that word with the same people you might come up with a specific gesture for it to save time?
Or maybe just start spelling AG, like people do typing? Or just use signs for “Amazing” and “girl”.
I’d assume it’s actually not that much different from how you’d use ASL for any name. Or unusual names at least.
It will be interesting to see just how this develops. Marcie must know who and what Amazi-Girl is in the context of Sal and her issues, yet there is no accusation or anger here.
I’m not sure she’s figured out that part. She may have, but I’m willing to wait and see if she does indeed know their FULL history.
I suppose you might be right. Marcie might just think Amber is Sal’s partner from the superhero side of the fence. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Marcie has always thought of Sal as being a Huntress-like figure.
If she hasn’t pieced together the rest of it (which would make sense – while Marcie knows the kid who’s been held hostage is at Sal’s school, she has no reason to know the girl who stabbed her is there too – or even necessarily what the girl who stabbed Sal looked like to piece it together from that), this will be a very fun dynamic indeed.
Same, Amber. I’m upset that I never picked up ASL earlier in life, but slowly I’m learning.
Is there a particular reason why Amber should know ASL? Or is this just social anxiety talking?
Probably just social anxiety guilt because she knows someone who uses it and she can’t understand them and she is probably aware that it would make life easier for people like Marcie if more people bothered to learn sign language or were taught it.
Marcie probably just started talking in ASL out of habit and Amber’s anxiety made her reply that
Where do I find Marcie’s glasses?
From the department of “This is probably obvious, but…”:
…I’m understanding Marcie to be saying “I know you” or “I know who you are”. Is that correct?
Is there a difference in ASL between “know (a person)” and “know (a fact)”?
Both, I think. Marcie remembers Amber from when Sal came to the roller derby to compete with her but she has also figured out that the quiet girl who previously seemed so terrified of Sal is also the costumed vigilante the seemed to be stalking her.
I doubt Marcie’s ever seen “the quiet girl who previously seemed so terrified of Sal.” Sal had barely registered Amber and Marcie wasn’t there any of the times they’d met.
She knew Sal had been working with AG. That’s by far the most likely way for her to make the connection.
Also the sign for knowing a person and a thing are the same.
Those blue boots with skates were bad ass! Of course they were going to find out!!
OMG, I just realized that ASL is an anagram of Sal. *pointless comment*