. . . .This group of friends, as in the cast, has a wonderful banter dynamic don’t they? Like we’ve all had that group that you would chat or banter with even if you weren’t actually friends at some point.
Yeah it’s one of my favorite things about the comic TBH- The dynamic between any two well-established charachters in DoA is going to be awesome whenever it happens, I love the strips where a bunch of people share screentime
Mike wants to watch the world burn, gotta believe in it for it to combust.
His intentionally antagonistic/malicious nature shows intention, and that’s not really a nihilistic view.
Um. What. Mike I can kind of agree *might* be able to get a diagnosis of ASPD. But everyone else listed there… I don’t really think so.
Amber is closer to DID + anxiety + anger issues due to trauma; AG while not perfect is not really sociopathic; Billie is closer to having NPD, and Ruth obviously has depression/possibly bipolar disorder. Like, people can be mean and problematic and aggressive or grumpy and closed off without being a sociopath.
I can’t put Billie on NPD. A defining characteristic of Narcissism is lack of empathy. Billie doesn’t have that. Billie is merely a social second-hander. All her value as a person lies in the eyes of others. That’s why Alice’s attack had such a devastating effect on her.
Mike’s method for getting Walky up is similar to the old radio drama where the weekly cliffhanger had the hero in a trap and his exit was dramatized next week. One week they had him in a trap that was inescapable, so next week’s episode began, “After our hero got out of the trap…”
I don’t know where people are getting that Mike’s nihilistic. I see it in a lot of other comments as well. He’s made no statements on the lack of inherent meaning in anything. He only takes potshots at the psychological dark of everyone with whom he interacts. That’s not nihilism, he’s just an asshole.
It’s more from his little speech to Blaine as a kid. He doesn’t believe anyone is truly good. Just remember this one line of his towards the end of it.
“None are righteous. Not even one.”
Nihilism is characterized by the rejecting of all principles and thinking life is meaningless. Mike doesn’t have any principles. He routinely breaks down people who do have them and tries to break them.
Mike as we’ve seen is extremely misanthropic. He looks for flaws in people to exploit and points them out. Whether he’s just being an asshole for assholes sake, he has an ulterior motive, or is secretly trying to help people is debatable, but Mike has made his feelings on things clear.
Most of the stuff he does is because he’s bored, and even then nothing matters for him.
Then again though, he only ACTS nihilistic, since despite his claims and behavior, there are SOME things he cares about, namely Ethan and Amber. Hell, after he and Ethan slept together, cracks in the facade he put up began showing. Him acting Nihilistic is likely just his way of detaching himself from things. He doesn’t WANT to care about things. He doesn’t WANT to think life has meaning. But he does. He’s just too much of an asshole to admit it.
He may THINK and ACT like he’s nihilistic, but he isn’t. He’s just a kid trying to act like nothing matters after he got hurt when he was younger. He tried to stand up for Amber and got slapped for troubles. He got Blaine to take Amber and Ethan, and we know how that turned out. Why bother caring if shit always goes belly up. So he just doesn’t want to care.
Really, Mike’s nothing more than someone who thinks he’s grown up by acting more misanthropic and nihilistic, but all he’s doing is acting like a kid still.
That’s not what Nihilism means at All. I practice it and live it.
You don’t automatically reject All principles or stop at how life is meaningless on its own. Nihilism recognizes that principles are arbitrary and life doesn’t come with a built-in goal. You can(and nihilists usually do) follow that up with building a set of principles, to become more than the sum of its parts, and sticking to them to create artificial meaning.
The depressed, self-destructive miser is a stereotype and little more, in great part because people who Do take a nihilistic worldview that way tend not to live very long.
Not that I’m particularly unused to the stereotype being favored over the reality, but I expected DoA readers to take the concept under a more accurate lens.
Just consider what you’re saying, even from a purely self-serving standpoint: Everything is equally pointless. But some things make you and people you care about awful, depressed and alone. Some other equally pointless things exalt both you and your friends, lovers and family. Why on earth would I pick the ones that result in misery when I’m biologically inclined to be decent, contributing member of society? Even the most self-serving, machiavellian nihilist has plenty of reason to be at least tolerable as a human being.
I tried to avoid going too deep into the specifics here, since I don’t represent all nihilists, but I think they’d agree when I say that broadly speaking, they are capable of functioning day to day without wallowing in their of suffering or dragging everyone around them down. Assuming they’d care to express that agreement, which they might not, that’s kinda the point.
As for how I personally see it, to wit, my feelings exist independent of how much inherent value or lack thereof I see in them, evolution had decided that I am to be a social creature seeking relationships with my own kind, and a deep respect for my fellow man has been thoroughly ingrained into me by some quite decent parenting. I’m happy to exercise what passes for my agency to play into all of those things, and I don’t need to pretend there’s some higher goal in doing so, though I may occasionally indulge that if it strikes my fancy.
And today, I’m talking to you since some of my relationships have been going rather badly, independently of the actions of me or theirs as far as I can tell, and that makes me sad and I wanna bond with people; w ; I hope that’s okay^^
The idea that none are righteous, bar no one, is not originated in a nihilistic worldview, or is even a philosophical statement, really. It’s more just an observation, an inaccurate one, at that, since while my ability to perceive the world is of a flawed mortal, I think it’s pretty clear that righteousness exists. Whether it does or not is beside the purview of nihilism as a philosophy, though – it just states that if it Does exists, it doesn’t have inherent value.
That inaccurate conclusion on his part dealt with, it’s clear that Mike built his own sense of values largely independent of anyone else, or, deliberately in opposition, as the case they me. Does he recognize there is no inherent point in living up to those values? Maybe! But I don’t see why he’d have had to. And he never said so.
>But some things make you and people you care about awful, depressed and alone. Some other equally pointless things exalt both you and your friends, lovers and family.
So there IS a point.
That’s not a Point, that’s just how my body chemistry and neural wiring ended up influencing my arbitrary value system. There isn’t any Inherent purpose behind that. I just decided based on arbitrary factors that I’m going to value other people.
I can understand how someone else might see a point in exalting others, although that comes with the usual caveats. Their aren’t going to end up in an alternate universe where the rules are different. They’re going to die one day. Even the most generous interpretation of the ripple effects of their actions will stop eventually. My relationship with them doesn’t mean anything, it’s just our brains being funny.
Spycraft Situation Projection– Joyce DELIBERATELY left Sarah off of that text, whom she would otherwise text lots of things, because Sarah knows Jacob and Raidah (and if memory serves fantasized about sex with Jacob), and would probably have OPINIONS about the current psyop. Although Sarah would probably be into it and anything that annoys Raidah, it would be another wildcard in an already usable situation and Joyce probably already feels embarrassed at herself and wants to contain who even knows she tries this.
The situation where this somehow works out in Joyce’s favor and she and Jacob start dating (5%), it would be funny to watch the news roll across the fiends group. “Joyce is dating someone.” “What?!” “It’s Jacob.” “WHAT?!” “She says the sex is incredible” ::ripe watermelon head explosion:: Mike: “Goddammit a new social mastermind I gotta put down.”
Oh geez that’s a whole ‘nother layer of life problems I didn’t realize Billy had. She can’t socialize on an equal level with Anybody, damn that’s so sad.
Yeah. If it wasn’t overeshadowed by alcoholism, self destruction and that whole lesbian suicide pact thing, I think that part of her problems would have been more highlighted.
You don’t fool me, Sarah! You know that this is uncharacteristic of Joyce and you’re worried enough that you want to make sure that she’s okay. I also know that you’d prefer torture to admitting that to a mixed group!
I think he just likes poiting out the intentions behind people’s behaviours. Sometimes that really annoys people, but Sarah doesn’t usually care about sugarcoating anyway, so…
Can you really blame Sarah? Who would want to be friends with these people? Sure, if they are already your friends you put up with a lot, but if they aren’t, do you look at any of these people and say, there is someone that I want to invest in? Okay, there are a few, but mostly they are tolerable acquaintances at best.
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Sarah and Walky, Nihilism-Off, middle of the quad at noon.
Loser is whoever shows up.
Then it’s down to Billie and Mike.
Wow, a lot of nihilism quality in this field, innit? Mike sorta loses because his jerkwadness has a purpose sometimes?
Walky is actually the least nihilistic person here.
I was going on the supposition that Walky and Sarah leave.
Yeah, he’s more defeatist than nihilistic.
In that scenario, everyone’s a loser
. . . .This group of friends, as in the cast, has a wonderful banter dynamic don’t they? Like we’ve all had that group that you would chat or banter with even if you weren’t actually friends at some point.
Yeah it’s one of my favorite things about the comic TBH- The dynamic between any two well-established charachters in DoA is going to be awesome whenever it happens, I love the strips where a bunch of people share screentime
It’s one of my favorite things about the comment section.
“I refuse to be the most nihilist person here.”
…. in a group with MIKE.
Mike wants to watch the world burn, gotta believe in it for it to combust.
His intentionally antagonistic/malicious nature shows intention, and that’s not really a nihilistic view.
Yeah, Mike’s not a nihilist…I’d say present-day Mike more closely fits the type for a sociopath really.
Actually, the same can easily be argued of Sarah too. And Amber (let’s face it, Amazi-girl is pretty sociopathic). And Billie and Ruth, natch.
Walky…nah, he’s just been a bit of a jerk ‘cos he’s sulking over his current poor grades.
Um. What. Mike I can kind of agree *might* be able to get a diagnosis of ASPD. But everyone else listed there… I don’t really think so.
Amber is closer to DID + anxiety + anger issues due to trauma; AG while not perfect is not really sociopathic; Billie is closer to having NPD, and Ruth obviously has depression/possibly bipolar disorder. Like, people can be mean and problematic and aggressive or grumpy and closed off without being a sociopath.
I can’t put Billie on NPD. A defining characteristic of Narcissism is lack of empathy. Billie doesn’t have that. Billie is merely a social second-hander. All her value as a person lies in the eyes of others. That’s why Alice’s attack had such a devastating effect on her.
There’s a dick joke in there somewhere, I just can’t put my finger on it…
Maybe I DO wanna see how exactly Mike convinced Walky to go to class. That…must have been an interesting conversation.
I expect that there’ll be a Slipshine about how Mike made Walky’s sausage.
Yes pls
Mike’s method for getting Walky up is similar to the old radio drama where the weekly cliffhanger had the hero in a trap and his exit was dramatized next week. One week they had him in a trap that was inescapable, so next week’s episode began, “After our hero got out of the trap…”
I don’t care about this comic
I don’t care about this comic OR how sausage is made.
Wait, is second panel Sarah supposed to be us?
Oh, I thought we were doing a nihilism-off. Looks like I win! Anyways, I always love a comic exploring Sarah’s social dysfunction.
I don’t care. Where’s Joyce?
Who cares? It’s Sarah time.
Sarah is just me but with more people trying hard to be her friend.
But you look like Ruth!
Well that actually fits cuz who’s trying be Ruth’s friends other than Ms. Stockholm Syndrome?
I think I see your problem.
Serious or just making a joke off what Sarah said?
I made the comment before reluctantly reading the comic
Purely just wants to see more of the Jacob/Joyce descent into doom. XD
In what world is Walky the most Nihilistic person? Especially when Mike is literally 10 feet away from him.
I don’t know where people are getting that Mike’s nihilistic. I see it in a lot of other comments as well. He’s made no statements on the lack of inherent meaning in anything. He only takes potshots at the psychological dark of everyone with whom he interacts. That’s not nihilism, he’s just an asshole.
It’s more from his little speech to Blaine as a kid. He doesn’t believe anyone is truly good. Just remember this one line of his towards the end of it.
“None are righteous. Not even one.”
Nihilism is characterized by the rejecting of all principles and thinking life is meaningless. Mike doesn’t have any principles. He routinely breaks down people who do have them and tries to break them.
Mike as we’ve seen is extremely misanthropic. He looks for flaws in people to exploit and points them out. Whether he’s just being an asshole for assholes sake, he has an ulterior motive, or is secretly trying to help people is debatable, but Mike has made his feelings on things clear.
Most of the stuff he does is because he’s bored, and even then nothing matters for him.
Then again though, he only ACTS nihilistic, since despite his claims and behavior, there are SOME things he cares about, namely Ethan and Amber. Hell, after he and Ethan slept together, cracks in the facade he put up began showing. Him acting Nihilistic is likely just his way of detaching himself from things. He doesn’t WANT to care about things. He doesn’t WANT to think life has meaning. But he does. He’s just too much of an asshole to admit it.
He may THINK and ACT like he’s nihilistic, but he isn’t. He’s just a kid trying to act like nothing matters after he got hurt when he was younger. He tried to stand up for Amber and got slapped for troubles. He got Blaine to take Amber and Ethan, and we know how that turned out. Why bother caring if shit always goes belly up. So he just doesn’t want to care.
Really, Mike’s nothing more than someone who thinks he’s grown up by acting more misanthropic and nihilistic, but all he’s doing is acting like a kid still.
That’s not what Nihilism means at All. I practice it and live it.
You don’t automatically reject All principles or stop at how life is meaningless on its own. Nihilism recognizes that principles are arbitrary and life doesn’t come with a built-in goal. You can(and nihilists usually do) follow that up with building a set of principles, to become more than the sum of its parts, and sticking to them to create artificial meaning.
The depressed, self-destructive miser is a stereotype and little more, in great part because people who Do take a nihilistic worldview that way tend not to live very long.
Not that I’m particularly unused to the stereotype being favored over the reality, but I expected DoA readers to take the concept under a more accurate lens.
Just consider what you’re saying, even from a purely self-serving standpoint: Everything is equally pointless. But some things make you and people you care about awful, depressed and alone. Some other equally pointless things exalt both you and your friends, lovers and family. Why on earth would I pick the ones that result in misery when I’m biologically inclined to be decent, contributing member of society? Even the most self-serving, machiavellian nihilist has plenty of reason to be at least tolerable as a human being.
I tried to avoid going too deep into the specifics here, since I don’t represent all nihilists, but I think they’d agree when I say that broadly speaking, they are capable of functioning day to day without wallowing in their of suffering or dragging everyone around them down. Assuming they’d care to express that agreement, which they might not, that’s kinda the point.
As for how I personally see it, to wit, my feelings exist independent of how much inherent value or lack thereof I see in them, evolution had decided that I am to be a social creature seeking relationships with my own kind, and a deep respect for my fellow man has been thoroughly ingrained into me by some quite decent parenting. I’m happy to exercise what passes for my agency to play into all of those things, and I don’t need to pretend there’s some higher goal in doing so, though I may occasionally indulge that if it strikes my fancy.
And today, I’m talking to you since some of my relationships have been going rather badly, independently of the actions of me or theirs as far as I can tell, and that makes me sad and I wanna bond with people; w ; I hope that’s okay^^
The idea that none are righteous, bar no one, is not originated in a nihilistic worldview, or is even a philosophical statement, really. It’s more just an observation, an inaccurate one, at that, since while my ability to perceive the world is of a flawed mortal, I think it’s pretty clear that righteousness exists. Whether it does or not is beside the purview of nihilism as a philosophy, though – it just states that if it Does exists, it doesn’t have inherent value.
That inaccurate conclusion on his part dealt with, it’s clear that Mike built his own sense of values largely independent of anyone else, or, deliberately in opposition, as the case they me. Does he recognize there is no inherent point in living up to those values? Maybe! But I don’t see why he’d have had to. And he never said so.
>But some things make you and people you care about awful, depressed and alone. Some other equally pointless things exalt both you and your friends, lovers and family.
So there IS a point.
That’s not a Point, that’s just how my body chemistry and neural wiring ended up influencing my arbitrary value system. There isn’t any Inherent purpose behind that. I just decided based on arbitrary factors that I’m going to value other people.
I can understand how someone else might see a point in exalting others, although that comes with the usual caveats. Their aren’t going to end up in an alternate universe where the rules are different. They’re going to die one day. Even the most generous interpretation of the ripple effects of their actions will stop eventually. My relationship with them doesn’t mean anything, it’s just our brains being funny.
I’d disagree that Mike is a Nihilist, but I would say that he probably counts as a Sociopath.
Who ISNT the most nihilistic person here?
It’s a singularity of nihilism.
*reprise of “Meat Man” followed by the Sonic Youth version of “Beat On The Brat”*
tbh most of em are equally nihilistic
Sarah is that one fan who only cares about specific characters/plotlines…btw when are we getting back to Blaine?
This strip feels really nostalgic, joining the trek to class. I guess it’s just as well, since we’re probably on the eve of destruction.
It’s okay if Joyce is your friend, Sarah.
“I refuse to be the most nihilist person here.”
Would be an OK book title, so long as the cover was nothing but Mike’s glowering face.
Oh god, you will make me wait for days, maybe weeks, until I know how the Joyce thing turns out?
You sound surprised?
Sorry, Mike, you can’t hurt Sarah with something she readily accepts. 😛
This is usually how lifelong friends are made.
Joyce has become the glue that makes all these assholes behave like friends, and they in turn make Joyce avoid being too naive.
Mike behaves like a friend? Take that back.
Sarah’s gonna wish she stayed in bed the whole day.
We’ll see.
Yeah, maybe she’ll switch to big sister mode for her roomie.
Spycraft Situation Projection– Joyce DELIBERATELY left Sarah off of that text, whom she would otherwise text lots of things, because Sarah knows Jacob and Raidah (and if memory serves fantasized about sex with Jacob), and would probably have OPINIONS about the current psyop. Although Sarah would probably be into it and anything that annoys Raidah, it would be another wildcard in an already usable situation and Joyce probably already feels embarrassed at herself and wants to contain who even knows she tries this.
The situation where this somehow works out in Joyce’s favor and she and Jacob start dating (5%), it would be funny to watch the news roll across the fiends group. “Joyce is dating someone.” “What?!” “It’s Jacob.” “WHAT?!” “She says the sex is incredible” ::ripe watermelon head explosion:: Mike: “Goddammit a new social mastermind I gotta put down.”
Sarah, ditch the group and go get something to eat. Who knows, you might run into Joyce.
Not likely. Joyce is eating higher on the hog than Sarah can afford.
Maybe. Didn’t he say brunch?
I love how Billie wants to gossip… but has to turn to Sarah to do so. You work with what you have.
Oh geez that’s a whole ‘nother layer of life problems I didn’t realize Billy had. She can’t socialize on an equal level with Anybody, damn that’s so sad.
Yeah. If it wasn’t overeshadowed by alcoholism, self destruction and that whole lesbian suicide pact thing, I think that part of her problems would have been more highlighted.
Billie is not doing well in college, is what I’m saying.
You don’t fool me, Sarah! You know that this is uncharacteristic of Joyce and you’re worried enough that you want to make sure that she’s okay. I also know that you’d prefer torture to admitting that to a mixed group!
Walky… I don’t think you really need to worry about that. You may very well be the *least* nihilistic person in this present group.
I don’t think Walky can beat Sarah in nihilism. I’m pretty sure she’s been at it much longer than him.
DoA Book 10: Maybe I Just Love A Good Dumpster Fire, Even If The Dumpster Fire Is Me
Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Don’t let Walky force you to stay, Sarah. I’m pretty sure you’re twice as strong as he is!
Walky has a point here. But is always sweet see Sarah be worried for Joyce.
A swing and a miss-pretty sorry try if you were trying to devastate Sarah there, Mike. Or even make her feel mildly bad about herself.
I think he just likes poiting out the intentions behind people’s behaviours. Sometimes that really annoys people, but Sarah doesn’t usually care about sugarcoating anyway, so…
Except he’s wrong here, I suspect. He’s pointing at the cover “grumpy loner” persona, while she actually is concerned about Joyce.
It … appears that Mike has stopped doing that? Maybe?
This is Mike. More likely he has long-term plans.
Still hoping Ethan’s niceness and then casual moving on broke the man.
I do. I wanna know how the sausage was made. It would have been a better alternative to what I got to know the past three days.
We do not talk about the Sausage Incident.
I like how Sarah is immune to Mike just because she does not give a fuck
Didn’t notice this the first read through, but Walky’s gotta not be grabbing people.
Nihilism is the only defensible philosophy. Of course it’s useless for me to try to convince you of this…
I never sausage a group of nihilists before!
Can you really blame Sarah? Who would want to be friends with these people? Sure, if they are already your friends you put up with a lot, but if they aren’t, do you look at any of these people and say, there is someone that I want to invest in? Okay, there are a few, but mostly they are tolerable acquaintances at best.