Sure looks like it, judging by her facial expression. I can tell because I’m having an existential crisis and completely blanking everything else being said pretty much all the time.
I’m still trying to figure Harrison out, but I mean, he is right here. Sometimes, stuff happens that you couldn’t have planned for, and you’re better off for it.
And sometimes stuff happens that you saw coming miles away and still couldn’t change. It was a bit more than a year ago that I berated a friend that he needed to change his work/life balance, if necessarily taking a life coach because given our age difference I’d consider it more appropriate he was at my funeral than the other way round. He was 49. I’ll be at his funeral tomorrow.
At 40 years you get glasses and the “First Great Culling of the Males” begins. Male half of the herd gets their first culling about then. If they’re 35 and don’t have a fairly good life style, you might not want to hang out as much when they turn 40.
Thanks, sorry for venting. I’ll probably be upset for a while to come but then I was not in his “inner circle” which basically stuck together since their school days, decades before I moved here.
If venting to strangers on the internet helps you, then it’s not exactly a heavy burden on us to either read it and offer virtual commiserations, or move on.
Vent away, good sir, and who knows… maybe it will make a difference to someone who needs to hear it?
It’s worse than you think. That state law he got shut down was gonna make chicken fingers mandatory on every restaurant menu, and establish an official Dexter and Monkey Master Day.
And all it would have cost was the dignity and human rights of a marginalized group. You really think Joyce would still take selfish gratification over the safety of lgbt people?
I hope Jacob learns something from his brother here, dude is wound a little too tightly. I understand why but he needs to take a deep breath and relax. That being said, I still wonder how this is going to ultimately affect Joyce and Jacob’s relationship.
At first I thought he meant that he didn’t see himself having kids before meeting his wife but I went back and read it and he says, “Stuff you couldn’t have planned for”.
Which, generally speaking, isn’t true about babies. You can plan to have a kid. So now I’m wondering if they thought one or both of them was infertile. It makes sense to say they couldn’t have planned for Jamie if they thought it wasn’t possible.
Some babies aren’t planned. I’ve known people on multiple forms of birth control who still managed to have an “oops”.
Jaime also may have/had health problems that you can’t plan for. My friend just had a pregnancy that by all accounts was healthy and her baby spent 3 weeks in the NICU, which no one expected. Our first has special needs.
How you feel about a new partner and baby can also blindside you. He may have never expected to be the kind of dad who straps his baby to his chest to visit his brother.
There’s a thousand ways babies can not go according to plan.
Welll….
I knew a couple in college.
One had been declared medically infertile.
The other had had their tubes tied.
When they started dating, they used condoms for STD safety rather than pregnancy prevention.
They got pregnant. They won the lottery on condom break + tube-tie reversal + no permanent scaring + 1 in 1000 chance to bypass infertility + the usual dangers to a pregnancy.
**insert Life Finds a Way meme here**
So yeah, maybe Jamie was unplanned, or maybe Jamie was next to impossible – the phrasing doesn’t really make it clear either way.
I know a couple where she got pregnant while still being a (not really immaculate) virgin in highschool. They rectified that before their daughter’s birth, though. If you already paid the price, you might as well do the deed. And even while that made their future education more tricky, they managed reasonably well.
I wouldn’t go that far. He didn’t plan to meet his wife, and he might have been surprised that he was willing to go along with having a kid with her. But saying, “Planning to have Jaime,” doesn’t work.
You also can’t plan to have Jaime specifically. A baby, yes, but this specific baby, of course not. Which is hard to be nuanced about when you’re making a different point.
There are a few other comics that also have Raidah going on about Jacob measuring up to Harrison’s level as well. Actually, I think if you read all the strips that cover that conversation in the both you get all the backstory you need for what’s happening here.
Y’know, I know Joyce is being bad and stuff here, but honestly? I think Raidah is really clearly unhealthy for Jacob and I want her to have her own story arcs that don’t rely on her vs. Joyce. I’m sure Raidah deserves better – she’s clearly no Mary, and is arguably close to Rachel on the “flawed but sympathetic” front – but this relationship with Jacob is not good and he is honestly better off single or with Joyce than with someone who constantly (and posibly accidentally) plays on his worst habits.
what SUGauthor said, and also, he’s done with university, so if he did four years and his LSAT, at least 22, but he seems to be at least a couple years out of university (since he has a job, isn’t an intern or and based on the preventing anti-trans law, probably isn’t really low in his firm), probably more likely to be in the in the 25-30 range?
Well law school’s what, three years? Assuming he started college at 18 and graduated at 22, he’d probably have graduated at 25ish. I’d put him mid-thirties.
Oh, my mistake. For some reason I was thinking it was just random courses plus LSAT and didn’t stop to think about how that doesn’t make sense and also that there are whole movies about law school.
Also, Jacob’s surprise about Harrison being chill makes me feel like it’s a fairly significant age gap, like they didn’t spend that many years at home together (esp in Jacob’s view, having been younger and probably having less solid memories in at least his first six years)
I feel for Jacob. I think he built up an idea of Harrison that was completely spotless, contained and organized, and Harrison is just… Another guy. A really kind and good person, but a human being. With how Jacob referred to him as “everything” and “practically a God”, I think in his brain, Harrison was everything to aspire to be, completely coordinated and self-assured and flawless. And seeing how much Harrison likes Joyce, neurotic and naive and heart-on-her-sleeve, must kind of throw his world out of equilibrium. Not that Harrison would have disliked Joyce as a person or a friend, but to accept her as a potential love-interest despite not checking any boxes, that must be pretty hard to suddenly come to grips with.
I first read it as him being embarrassed that she wouldn’t say it or that she implied she was undeclared, but on second reading I read it as him thinking Joyce was embarrassed about her major and encouraging her to say it.
But there’s that bolded TELL, so idk. It definitely doesn’t feel good.
I was thinking he was reacting to the conversation that happened here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/salary/ I think it might have affected him more than it affected Joyce. Even at the time, Raidah’s condescension kinda rolled off her back, but if you look at Jacob, he noticed that Raidah was trying to make Joyce feel bad. I think he was thinking that Joyce is being self-conscious and got angry that she appeared embarrassed at her major.
This actually kinda feels to me like a validation on my thought that he might have had a fight with Raidah earlier about Joyce and that he’s feeling a bit defensive.
Related to that, I wonder if he’s thinking about Raidah’s comment about eating at an adult restaurant several pages later (Harrison decided to take them here right?)
Axel:
It was the bolded tell that made me read it as “commanding” like he was appauled. Buut there is no doubt that this sort of written text is influenced by history stuff. I’m more likely to go to that than other things.
So part my history, but also partly because of how much they went over how he ~has~ to impress/do like his brother, to the point where people call it an issue.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. but everyone has bad parts or things they need to improve. That might be his, or it might just be me projecting.
I read that “TELL HIM” as general annoyance at her fibbing. Like “OK, I’ll let you get away with the big, embarrassing lie, but you’re NOT going to make this a habit”.
A day late, but: This was my interpretation, too; Jacob is treating the fib about her major as kind of a proxy for all the dishonesty that he *didn’t* call out.
See, now what I get from that is that if I am a different kind of jerk from Sartre then I get to kill philosophers with swords. This is significant because most philosophers are stoned.
A thought occurs–maybe Jacob never actually invited Raidah to this brunch. Like he couched it to Harrison that he could meet her but really just wanted to hang with his brother, so his plan all along was to say “Oh she couldn’t make it, last minute final group project”. So then Joyce randomly shows up and Harrison clearly already thinks Joyce = gf, she gives Jacob “please help me” eyes. Jacob sees no reason to set the record straight “oh I was actually going to lie to you about my real girlfriend who won’t be joining us this morning because I didn’t actually tell her about this and who I am really iffy about right now.”
Of course the romcom situation would be if Raidah randomly wanders in and sees the” date”. Maybe we’ll subvert that and Jacob will just break up with her after thinking the morning’s events over. Or maybe we’ll double subvert it and SHE will tell HIM it’s the end of the first year and things aren’t where she wanted them to be and she is moving on. And then Jacob smiles and is strangely OK with it and invites Joyce out for more cheese pizzas sophomore year…
Raidah talked about meeting his brother when he came to town soon, so she definitely knows about it. The plan is for dinner though, not lunch, so she wouldn’t be expecting him now.
And we’re halfway through October, nowhere near the end of first year. And Raidah’s not in her first year anyways.
Raidah 100% expected to be invited and has a vested interest in being present. A few people have speculated Jacob broke up with her, because it doesn’t really make sense that she’s willingly missing her chance to schmooze with Harrison.
He didn’t invite Raidah to the brunch, because the brunch wasn’t a thing until Harrison decided that’s what they were doing. They were supposed to have a meal that actually exists together.
I’m still holding out for Joyce getting baby-barf on her before this arc is over.
I mean, teaching is an awesome career move and all power to her, but there are like a crapton of her neuroses she needs to sort out before she test them in a classroom situation.
Joyce would be a great youth group leader, but teacher… yeah, maybe.
Babies bring out weird things in us. Its very common for a kid like Joyce (female, homeschooled, groomed to be a housewife) to be roped into babysitting for the church and given her reaction to Jaime its likely she’s held more than a few babies in her time.
When I was 9 we had a foster baby and even though I was a very squeamish and germophobic child and teenager (when I was 14 I almost scrubbed my arms with bleach after a class on microbes on our skin) I was perfectly happy to change diapers and deal with spit up.
Babies are genetically designed to overcome our issues and make us serve them.
Yep, its a mutual hard wiring. They’re hard wired to turn up the cute and pathetic, were hard wired to respond. They’re also hard wired to cock block. All hail our tiny drooling overlords.
Because, put simply, those who didn’t have that as a priority didn’t have offspring that survived.
As someone said a few strips back, we come from a long line of parents.
I don’t think so. I can see why he’s Raidah and Jacob’s idea of a genuinely successful and happy man. However, the point he’s trying to make her as that this wasn’t the result of a ‘grand plan’. He’s just done his best and been decisive in taking opportunities that he knows will increase his happiness or success when they’ve come his way.
It will be interesting to see how Jacob responds to this fraternal advice!
Well, if nothing else, Harrison has kicked Joyce into actually addressing her fears about her life goals and coming to a conclusion. Whether she actually does think that long-term doesn’t matter at this point. Right now, the point is that she’s popped out of her indecision loop.
New proposal: Raidah doesn’t show up after all, but Jocelyn does. Joyce raves about Harrisson’s work, and Joss comes out.
Jacob, in the meantime, comes clean to Raidah, with a lot of heartfelt apologies. Later he gives Joyce a piece of his mind about her little charade.
All scenarios so far don’t seem to have taken Raidah’s personality into consideration.
She’s told her friends that she considers Joyce a ‘little girl’ and no threat. Given that she’s already said that she doesn’t think Joyce is a threat, might she blame Jacob instead for either being ‘taken in’ or ‘playing along’ and start questioning his commitment? She’ll still be angry at Joyce, yes, but not surprised because she probably felt that some silly stunt was only a matter of time but why has Jacob not sent her packing?
Yeah, it’s only fair to be pissed when your SO introduces someone else as his girlfriend to his family. Even if it’s by omission rather than active action.
I think if Raidah finds out he went with Joyce instead, while she will be pissed at Joyce and Jacob, she’ll be most pissed about missing her chance to network with Harrison, because that really seems to be a big focus for her.
(I don’t think Raidah’s going to find out that late though, because she most likely will contact Jacob about their plans and even if Joyce is gone by then, end up around Jacob and Harrison)
Raidah finds out about this whole scheme and dumps Jacob immediately. Still reeling from having his whole worldview thrown out of whack/being dumped/realizing that Joyce has feelings for him, he sleeps with Joyce and almost immediately regrets it. Subsequently, in a fit of shame and self-recrimination, Joyce decides to continue her ‘descent into sin’ and starts hooking up with Joe, which Joe is happy to go along with for a while until he starts to feel guilty about taking advantage of her while she’s emotionally vulnerable and breaks it off. While they’re apart, Joe and Joyce both separately come to the realization that they actually like each other and get together properly this time.
No, I don’t think this is plausible. If Raidah does fine out, she won’t dump Jacob. She doesn’t actually like him to begin with. He’s just a means to an end for her. So, she won’t have any strong personal feelings of betrayal from it. Her anger will be more about the set-back to her plans and the social embarrassment if anyone finds out. She would tell him that they can get through this and will use it to guilt Jacob into doing what she wants him to in the future. Raidah likes to think of herself as a master manipulator. She will only break up with Jacob if she is sure that he will come to her begging for her to take him back.
Raidah’s said lots of things. That whole conversation doesn’t really match with her attitude when Joyce was making her play for Jacob.
I mean, it doesn’t actually contradict it if she’d really meant “If you cheat I’ll dump you, but if I think someone’s interested I’ll get manipulative and underhanded to try to keep you rather than talk about it like a reasonable person”, but it kind of violates the spirit of the “I’m not the jealous type” talk.
Harrison is much older than Jacob. College is four years. US law schools are three more. Add another 2-3 for baby and legal accomplishments and he might well be 10 years older. So Jacob was about 8 when Harrison left for college.
So, Jacob doesn’t so much idolise the real Harrison but rather the reputation of the man, mixed with some vague memories of a beloved big brother in his early childhood.
Oh, he might see him at family holidays, when Harrison isn’t too busy with his own (assumed) life of being Fantastically Cool. I imagine that at those gatherings, everyone (Jacob included) fawns over him.
I think that Joyce has been more completely honest and open with Jacob than she has with almost anyone else about her feelings and uncertainties, hasn’t she?
Everyone seems dead-set on this not working out for Joyce and Jacob, but I keep seeing a parallel here to how my last relationship ended.
The person I was dating and I were not a good fit. We had enough shared interests to maintain momentum, but it was becoming clear we were very different people with very different priorities. I was having fun, sure, but there were plenty of moments where they would say something and I would cringe, or I would say something and they would get quiet. Nothing abusive mind you, just things we disagreed on at a fundamental level (that word being especially appropriate in their case).
Then, I had a friend who started spending more and more time with me. We fit together FAR better, had far more in common, and didn’t disagree on so many fundamentals. I don’t think anything quite this far along the road to cheating ever happened, but it was fast becoming more than just friendship. Eventually, things came to a head and my partner and I broke it off (it came out later that they were cheating on me in a far more literal sense), but my friend who I had connected with and I did end up together.
I guess what I’m saying is not to discount the effect that a more comfortable relationship can have on a rocky one, and that Jacob is his own person who isn’t married to anyone. The moments of Jacob being uncomfortable with Raidah (or at least what she’s saying) are going to come into play at some point, and I believe there’s a path here that ends with Joyce and Jacob together.
Also, I there’s a part of me that wants to see how Raidah would handle being the dumpee in this situation. College IS about learning after all 🙂
Yeah, that’s how I see this playing out too. Everyone wants to jump on how this is the worst thing ever, but like, numerous relationships come about from situations nearly identical to this one. Just sometimes, you ended up in a relationship and a friendship at the same time, and you realize you like the friend a hell of a lot more.
Yeah, it kinda sucks, it’s kinda emotional cheating, but it also happens a lot. And even before Jacob or Joyce was willing to say they were into the other person, there was a lot of hints that they just really enjoyed each other’s company. Jacob showing up with grape juice, for instances.
They might just end up together, not because of this lie, but because this lie showed Jacob something he’d rather have than what he does. He clicks with Joyce on a very easy level. Raidah, on the other hand, has already hinted she’s mostly with him for his brother, and to groom him into being his brother. He definitely doesn’t have the same easy grin on his face when she’s encouraging him to do something because it’s what his brother would do.
Oh, absolutely, Jacob and Joyce are a great fit, and in the long run, I think their relationship has every chance of working out. If they can get past this precise situation they’re in right now, which is three different garbage fires at once.
It ain’t happening.
Which is mostly what upsets me about this whole approach. I do think they’d make a great couple, but “Crappy rom-com shenanigans lead to real romance” is not the lesson Joyce is going to learn here.
I’m really not seeing these “Jacob was uncomfortable with Raidah” signs everyone claims.
There are times he seemed uncomfortable in her presence, but there were always other reasonable explanations.
I dunno, I think Jacob looks sorta crushed by Raidah here. He was having a good time, and then within minutes of leaving the restaurant with Joyce, this becomes his expression when he’s alone with Raidah:
Those are mostly what makes me go “Whoof”, to quote Jacob. He does not look super pleased with his perfect girlfriend, especially in that first one where she just seems hella catty.
Like I said other explanations. The surface read of that first one is he’s worrying about meeting with Harrison and then imaging Harrison’s reaction to Joyce’s weird hangups. It’s possible he’s actually reacting negatively to Raidah being catty, but the first is the more obvious interpretation. That Raidah’s manipulation is working. We see it, he doesn’t.
As for the other, not wanting to fool around right now isn’t a crime and we don’t even see his face for the reaction. As far as we can tell he seems fine with it. And seriously that situation, which is the strip after he and Joyce came back all flirty and Joyce all obviously guilty, isn’t exactly something that would inspire most to be romantic.
Wait. Wait. Wait. I might be totally off sides here but was Harrison always the brother? Is Harrison trans and that was part of his commitment to the anti-trans laws? It wasn’t part of his plan! His wife wasn’t part of his plans… professionally or any wife at all? Jaime wasn’t planned either…
And yes, I know he just might mean “unexpected” and the different ways to take it are above but I’m hoping for a trans character who is secure and successful rather than brash porcupine or hiding. (Legit responses btw, just it’s nice to have an example of a win).
BUT Jacob’s been cool with two people coming out to each other in his room while they basically forgot he was there, he has a strong sense of how powerful sex can be and respect for nontraditional dynamics to avoid sex and there is this bonus tidbit from Raidah that hints she knows what Harrison’s checklist WAS according to Jacob and pre things that weren’t planned: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/proud/ . Jacob could totally get that level of respect and understanding on his own, but it definitely would have hastened if he had direct experience with those circumstances previously.
Considering Jacob’s idolatry was about about accomplishments (the case being note worthy) and Harrison is putting preference on stuff that wasn’t on the checklist (relationships, that same case), my guess is Jacob thought that those things WERE on a checklist and that’s how to get people to be proud of you.
I’m not reading into it At All. Way more explanations above and it’s a vary vague statement. If taken to extreme of “I had a list. None of those were on it ever (wife, kid, lawsuit (not just success). Those are the best parts” it can be unexpected yaaaasy or it can be – I didnt feel allowed to play that way.
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Jacob: “I just fell straight into Joyce’s fan fiction, didn’t I”
Joyce: “idk, am I a fighter pilot? How’s my mac and cheese?”
Separated into mac and cheese sections, most likely.
Impenetrable Wall, but transparent so they can still fantasio
Macaroni and cheese without cheese is just… pasta
Teach
Your Children Well
Their father’s Hell did slowly go by…
Is Joyce just having her own little existential crisis and resolution at the dinner table and completely blanking everything else being said..?
Sure looks like it, judging by her facial expression. I can tell because I’m having an existential crisis and completely blanking everything else being said pretty much all the time.
I’m still trying to figure Harrison out, but I mean, he is right here. Sometimes, stuff happens that you couldn’t have planned for, and you’re better off for it.
And sometimes, stuff happens that you couldn’t have planned for, and you’re unfathomably worse off for it.
There isn’t a cosmic plan. Life is just life.
Hell, often enough stuff happens and the only thing that really changes is your perspective on your situation
And sometimes stuff happens that you saw coming miles away and still couldn’t change. It was a bit more than a year ago that I berated a friend that he needed to change his work/life balance, if necessarily taking a life coach because given our age difference I’d consider it more appropriate he was at my funeral than the other way round. He was 49. I’ll be at his funeral tomorrow.
At 40 years you get glasses and the “First Great Culling of the Males” begins. Male half of the herd gets their first culling about then. If they’re 35 and don’t have a fairly good life style, you might not want to hang out as much when they turn 40.
Dang, so sorry for your loss 😢
Thanks, sorry for venting. I’ll probably be upset for a while to come but then I was not in his “inner circle” which basically stuck together since their school days, decades before I moved here.
If venting to strangers on the internet helps you, then it’s not exactly a heavy burden on us to either read it and offer virtual commiserations, or move on.
Vent away, good sir, and who knows… maybe it will make a difference to someone who needs to hear it?
I’m sorry to hear that.
Also true. Shit happens, and you sometimes need a moment to figure out if it happened in your favor or not.
Harrison is working up to telling Jacob that he’s had a personal epiphany, is quitting the law, and is getting a job as a rodeo clown.
Beats going into politics.
I would have assumed “getting a job as a rodeo clown” was a metaphor for going into politics.
Rodeo clowns aren’t really funny.
Funnier than politicians, no?
Seems like you read too little Trump news.
He’s not funny.
Yeah, he’s just depressing at this point.
Nah, he’s going to really freak Joyce out. He’s quitting law to be a stay at home dad.
It’s on the checklist, anyway
Joyce solved her crisis, and Jacob’s having one.Poor guy- hope he figures out soon that life happens.
That’s a fine lesson and all Harrison, but man if you only knew what kinda timing you have right now >.>
It’s worse than you think. That state law he got shut down was gonna make chicken fingers mandatory on every restaurant menu, and establish an official Dexter and Monkey Master Day.
And all it would have cost was the dignity and human rights of a marginalized group. You really think Joyce would still take selfish gratification over the safety of lgbt people?
Wait, what’s this? What law got shut down, and how was it connected to LGBT rights? I feel like I missed a strip or two somewhere.
Harrison and his team took down anti-transgender legislation. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/
Friggin riders… friggin “omnibus legislation”… Oh, you want LGBTQ equality? *Piles on pork*
awesome, raidah hasnt shown up yet!
“Could be worse.”
“How?”
“Well…there could be snakes in here with us.”
I’m assuming she’ll show up at the worst possible moment.
She doesn’t have to show up. Jacob just has to explain why she doesn’t get to meet Harrison and get taken out to eat. It should be interesting.
“He showed up early and had to leave right after.”
I hope Jacob learns something from his brother here, dude is wound a little too tightly. I understand why but he needs to take a deep breath and relax. That being said, I still wonder how this is going to ultimately affect Joyce and Jacob’s relationship.
Yeah, let’s see if you still think this is better after finding out the context, Harrison. Cuz, I mean, that might cause you to re-evaluate a lot.
Did we just imply Jaime wasn’t 100% a planned baby?
One more entertaining “knows things that do make him look a little more like what a boyfriend would know” for Jacob.
At first I thought he meant that he didn’t see himself having kids before meeting his wife but I went back and read it and he says, “Stuff you couldn’t have planned for”.
Which, generally speaking, isn’t true about babies. You can plan to have a kid. So now I’m wondering if they thought one or both of them was infertile. It makes sense to say they couldn’t have planned for Jamie if they thought it wasn’t possible.
Some babies aren’t planned. I’ve known people on multiple forms of birth control who still managed to have an “oops”.
Jaime also may have/had health problems that you can’t plan for. My friend just had a pregnancy that by all accounts was healthy and her baby spent 3 weeks in the NICU, which no one expected. Our first has special needs.
How you feel about a new partner and baby can also blindside you. He may have never expected to be the kind of dad who straps his baby to his chest to visit his brother.
There’s a thousand ways babies can not go according to plan.
Welll….
I knew a couple in college.
One had been declared medically infertile.
The other had had their tubes tied.
When they started dating, they used condoms for STD safety rather than pregnancy prevention.
They got pregnant. They won the lottery on condom break + tube-tie reversal + no permanent scaring + 1 in 1000 chance to bypass infertility + the usual dangers to a pregnancy.
**insert Life Finds a Way meme here**
So yeah, maybe Jamie was unplanned, or maybe Jamie was next to impossible – the phrasing doesn’t really make it clear either way.
I know a couple where she got pregnant while still being a (not really immaculate) virgin in highschool. They rectified that before their daughter’s birth, though. If you already paid the price, you might as well do the deed. And even while that made their future education more tricky, they managed reasonably well.
I know some babies aren’t planned. I was only suggesting that the phrasing used, “couldn’t have” instead of “didn’t”, meant something.
I wouldn’t go that far. He didn’t plan to meet his wife, and he might have been surprised that he was willing to go along with having a kid with her. But saying, “Planning to have Jaime,” doesn’t work.
You also can’t plan to have Jaime specifically. A baby, yes, but this specific baby, of course not. Which is hard to be nuanced about when you’re making a different point.
Aw, isn’t that cute? Joyce is learning to think for herself. Kinda.
State Law?
How much backstory am I missing?
Harrison was part of the legal team that got some anti-transgender laws struck down: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/
There are a few other comics that also have Raidah going on about Jacob measuring up to Harrison’s level as well. Actually, I think if you read all the strips that cover that conversation in the both you get all the backstory you need for what’s happening here.
Yeeesh. I mean, I’m proud of my siblings, but referee g to one as a ‘God’ even in jest is just a bit much.
Y’know, I know Joyce is being bad and stuff here, but honestly? I think Raidah is really clearly unhealthy for Jacob and I want her to have her own story arcs that don’t rely on her vs. Joyce. I’m sure Raidah deserves better – she’s clearly no Mary, and is arguably close to Rachel on the “flawed but sympathetic” front – but this relationship with Jacob is not good and he is honestly better off single or with Joyce than with someone who constantly (and posibly accidentally) plays on his worst habits.
…rachel is still like the least flawed character in the entire strip.
Rachel or Other Rachel?
Raidah mentioned that Harrison played a role in “striking down anti-transgender laws,” presumably at the state level.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/
That was… supposed to be a reply to PHNX, oh well.
I wonder how old Harrison is. That’s a kind of life lesson you don’t learn for a while usually.
I learned that lesson when I was 19, it has less to do with your age and everything to do with the hand life deals you.
what SUGauthor said, and also, he’s done with university, so if he did four years and his LSAT, at least 22, but he seems to be at least a couple years out of university (since he has a job, isn’t an intern or and based on the preventing anti-trans law, probably isn’t really low in his firm), probably more likely to be in the in the 25-30 range?
Well law school’s what, three years? Assuming he started college at 18 and graduated at 22, he’d probably have graduated at 25ish. I’d put him mid-thirties.
Oh, my mistake. For some reason I was thinking it was just random courses plus LSAT and didn’t stop to think about how that doesn’t make sense and also that there are whole movies about law school.
Also, Jacob’s surprise about Harrison being chill makes me feel like it’s a fairly significant age gap, like they didn’t spend that many years at home together (esp in Jacob’s view, having been younger and probably having less solid memories in at least his first six years)
I feel for Jacob. I think he built up an idea of Harrison that was completely spotless, contained and organized, and Harrison is just… Another guy. A really kind and good person, but a human being. With how Jacob referred to him as “everything” and “practically a God”, I think in his brain, Harrison was everything to aspire to be, completely coordinated and self-assured and flawless. And seeing how much Harrison likes Joyce, neurotic and naive and heart-on-her-sleeve, must kind of throw his world out of equilibrium. Not that Harrison would have disliked Joyce as a person or a friend, but to accept her as a potential love-interest despite not checking any boxes, that must be pretty hard to suddenly come to grips with.
“Life is what happens while you’re busy making other plans,” as John Lennon once said.
I was trying to work out some Harrison/George Harrison/John Lennon joke, but it was just becoming unwieldy and awkward, so I gave up.
“As Harrison said, ‘Life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans.’ Oh wait, no, that was Lennon.”
Best I got.
Lennon was quoting Allen Saunders : https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/05/06/other-plans/
Huh. I didn’t like him in that first panel th ere. Nope.
I first read it as him being embarrassed that she wouldn’t say it or that she implied she was undeclared, but on second reading I read it as him thinking Joyce was embarrassed about her major and encouraging her to say it.
But there’s that bolded TELL, so idk. It definitely doesn’t feel good.
I was thinking he was reacting to the conversation that happened here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/salary/ I think it might have affected him more than it affected Joyce. Even at the time, Raidah’s condescension kinda rolled off her back, but if you look at Jacob, he noticed that Raidah was trying to make Joyce feel bad. I think he was thinking that Joyce is being self-conscious and got angry that she appeared embarrassed at her major.
This actually kinda feels to me like a validation on my thought that he might have had a fight with Raidah earlier about Joyce and that he’s feeling a bit defensive.
Related to that, I wonder if he’s thinking about Raidah’s comment about eating at an adult restaurant several pages later (Harrison decided to take them here right?)
Axel:
It was the bolded tell that made me read it as “commanding” like he was appauled. Buut there is no doubt that this sort of written text is influenced by history stuff. I’m more likely to go to that than other things.
So part my history, but also partly because of how much they went over how he ~has~ to impress/do like his brother, to the point where people call it an issue.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. but everyone has bad parts or things they need to improve. That might be his, or it might just be me projecting.
Jacob is OK with Harrison thinking he dates Joyce, but not with him thinking he dates an undeclared.
I read that “TELL HIM” as general annoyance at her fibbing. Like “OK, I’ll let you get away with the big, embarrassing lie, but you’re NOT going to make this a habit”.
A day late, but: This was my interpretation, too; Jacob is treating the fib about her major as kind of a proxy for all the dishonesty that he *didn’t* call out.
Pan out to reveal that Sydney Yus has stolen Jaime.
Whoever stole Jaime, might be Sydney, Raidah, Jaime himself. No one knows but we have gone without the friendly goo-blah for too long.
AND FRESH BABYBACK RIBS JUST APPEARED ON THE MENU! YOU MONSTER!
DoA Book 10: Phew, Crisis Averted
Joyce: “Good morning class. Today we begin our lessons on Sartre and Beauvoir.”
Joyce appears in a Nier Automata cosplay.
Joyce: “Basically god is dead, feminism is cool, don’t be a jerk like Sartre, and you can kill philosophers with a sword.”
Wait what? I thought you killed philosophers using a stone?
No that’s how you keep philosophers alive and rich forever.
Wasn’t it poisoned wine in a goblet?
The pellet with the poison’s in the vessel with the pestle
Now there is a reference from the distant past.
See, now what I get from that is that if I am a different kind of jerk from Sartre then I get to kill philosophers with swords. This is significant because most philosophers are stoned.
Of course they’re stoned. The ideas just come better once you’ve got a bunch of THC in ya.
According to Monty Python they use a different substance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtgKkifJ0Pw
Thank you, I hadn’t heard that song in forever.
A thought occurs–maybe Jacob never actually invited Raidah to this brunch. Like he couched it to Harrison that he could meet her but really just wanted to hang with his brother, so his plan all along was to say “Oh she couldn’t make it, last minute final group project”. So then Joyce randomly shows up and Harrison clearly already thinks Joyce = gf, she gives Jacob “please help me” eyes. Jacob sees no reason to set the record straight “oh I was actually going to lie to you about my real girlfriend who won’t be joining us this morning because I didn’t actually tell her about this and who I am really iffy about right now.”
Of course the romcom situation would be if Raidah randomly wanders in and sees the” date”. Maybe we’ll subvert that and Jacob will just break up with her after thinking the morning’s events over. Or maybe we’ll double subvert it and SHE will tell HIM it’s the end of the first year and things aren’t where she wanted them to be and she is moving on. And then Jacob smiles and is strangely OK with it and invites Joyce out for more cheese pizzas sophomore year…
Raidah talked about meeting his brother when he came to town soon, so she definitely knows about it. The plan is for dinner though, not lunch, so she wouldn’t be expecting him now.
And we’re halfway through October, nowhere near the end of first year. And Raidah’s not in her first year anyways.
Winter is comimg.
Did she finally get a boyfriend?
Raidah 100% expected to be invited and has a vested interest in being present. A few people have speculated Jacob broke up with her, because it doesn’t really make sense that she’s willingly missing her chance to schmooze with Harrison.
I’m not sure if the plan was dinner, but Harrison definitely showed up earlier than expected, which is why Raidah isn’t around.
Maybe Harrison will stick around for dinner with Raidah and we’ll get to see Jacob somehow navigate that without letting Joyce be mentioned.
Solid points! It just feels like an eternity.
It really has. I only remember because I was rereading stuff recently.
He didn’t invite Raidah to the brunch, because the brunch wasn’t a thing until Harrison decided that’s what they were doing. They were supposed to have a meal that actually exists together.
*has immediate thoughts about this strip in a ragey-sense*
*realizes that this story arc is still going on and key plot points may still happen*
*hogties base instincts until it leans to wait for the arc to be complete before declaring it bad*
I’m still holding out for Joyce getting baby-barf on her before this arc is over.
I mean, teaching is an awesome career move and all power to her, but there are like a crapton of her neuroses she needs to sort out before she test them in a classroom situation.
Joyce would be a great youth group leader, but teacher… yeah, maybe.
Babies bring out weird things in us. Its very common for a kid like Joyce (female, homeschooled, groomed to be a housewife) to be roped into babysitting for the church and given her reaction to Jaime its likely she’s held more than a few babies in her time.
When I was 9 we had a foster baby and even though I was a very squeamish and germophobic child and teenager (when I was 14 I almost scrubbed my arms with bleach after a class on microbes on our skin) I was perfectly happy to change diapers and deal with spit up.
Babies are genetically designed to overcome our issues and make us serve them.
More importantly, we are instinctually hard-wired to recognise babies as a priority and respond as an overwhelming priority to their needs.
Yep, its a mutual hard wiring. They’re hard wired to turn up the cute and pathetic, were hard wired to respond. They’re also hard wired to cock block. All hail our tiny drooling overlords.
Because, put simply, those who didn’t have that as a priority didn’t have offspring that survived.
As someone said a few strips back, we come from a long line of parents.
And that trend goes back long before human intelligence. Taking care of babies runs deep genetically.
Joyce, you are a child yourself.
On other topics, Jacobs’s brother is incredibly different that what they made us believe.
I don’t think so. I can see why he’s Raidah and Jacob’s idea of a genuinely successful and happy man. However, the point he’s trying to make her as that this wasn’t the result of a ‘grand plan’. He’s just done his best and been decisive in taking opportunities that he knows will increase his happiness or success when they’ve come his way.
It will be interesting to see how Jacob responds to this fraternal advice!
Well, if nothing else, Harrison has kicked Joyce into actually addressing her fears about her life goals and coming to a conclusion. Whether she actually does think that long-term doesn’t matter at this point. Right now, the point is that she’s popped out of her indecision loop.
New proposal: Raidah doesn’t show up after all, but Jocelyn does. Joyce raves about Harrisson’s work, and Joss comes out.
Jacob, in the meantime, comes clean to Raidah, with a lot of heartfelt apologies. Later he gives Joyce a piece of his mind about her little charade.
Then everyone hugs. Tears are shed, possibly.
All scenarios so far don’t seem to have taken Raidah’s personality into consideration.
She’s told her friends that she considers Joyce a ‘little girl’ and no threat. Given that she’s already said that she doesn’t think Joyce is a threat, might she blame Jacob instead for either being ‘taken in’ or ‘playing along’ and start questioning his commitment? She’ll still be angry at Joyce, yes, but not surprised because she probably felt that some silly stunt was only a matter of time but why has Jacob not sent her packing?
She’s told her friends that, like she told Jacob she wasn’t the jealous type, but her actions don’t match either of those statements.
She *should* be pissed at Jacob. Hes being a massive creep here.
Yeah, it’s only fair to be pissed when your SO introduces someone else as his girlfriend to his family. Even if it’s by omission rather than active action.
He deserves to get shouted at, and so does Joyce.
I think if Raidah finds out he went with Joyce instead, while she will be pissed at Joyce and Jacob, she’ll be most pissed about missing her chance to network with Harrison, because that really seems to be a big focus for her.
(I don’t think Raidah’s going to find out that late though, because she most likely will contact Jacob about their plans and even if Joyce is gone by then, end up around Jacob and Harrison)
Plans are good. Flexibility and the ability to land on your feet is better. No plan survives contact with the enemy.
And Jeph Jacques added, “or with a pretty girl in a sundress”, which is pretty spot on here.
That dress DID look good on Joyce.
Dinner with Raidah would have some interesting “wait then who was Joyce this morning??” questions. It’s a delightful powder keg.
I want to see it go through with everyone just carefully not asking questions
That right there is prime reaction pic material. Hell, it’s like Joyce became the Surprised Pikachu Face!
Look, I’m not ‘shopping that face onto Joyce. I tried it with Malaya, and the results were a nightmare.
Jacob seem start to question his whole life. Good! But this will be really painful.
Time to throw my crazy prediction into the ring!
Raidah finds out about this whole scheme and dumps Jacob immediately. Still reeling from having his whole worldview thrown out of whack/being dumped/realizing that Joyce has feelings for him, he sleeps with Joyce and almost immediately regrets it. Subsequently, in a fit of shame and self-recrimination, Joyce decides to continue her ‘descent into sin’ and starts hooking up with Joe, which Joe is happy to go along with for a while until he starts to feel guilty about taking advantage of her while she’s emotionally vulnerable and breaks it off. While they’re apart, Joe and Joyce both separately come to the realization that they actually like each other and get together properly this time.
Boom. Joeyce endgame achieved.
No, I don’t think this is plausible. If Raidah does fine out, she won’t dump Jacob. She doesn’t actually like him to begin with. He’s just a means to an end for her. So, she won’t have any strong personal feelings of betrayal from it. Her anger will be more about the set-back to her plans and the social embarrassment if anyone finds out. She would tell him that they can get through this and will use it to guilt Jacob into doing what she wants him to in the future. Raidah likes to think of herself as a master manipulator. She will only break up with Jacob if she is sure that he will come to her begging for her to take him back.
What are you basing raidah not liking Jacob on?
She’s already told him outright that if he cheated on her, she’d leave him. There are other ambitious and well-connected men out there.
Raidah’s said lots of things. That whole conversation doesn’t really match with her attitude when Joyce was making her play for Jacob.
I mean, it doesn’t actually contradict it if she’d really meant “If you cheat I’ll dump you, but if I think someone’s interested I’ll get manipulative and underhanded to try to keep you rather than talk about it like a reasonable person”, but it kind of violates the spirit of the “I’m not the jealous type” talk.
Crazier prediction: Harrison’s wife is transgendered.
I like to think he’s the kind of guy who doesn’t need a personal stake in an issue to care about it.
Fair enough. Maybe it’s Jacob who’s transgendered then.
I thought we weren’t doing the “past-tense verb form” thing, anymore.
Harrison is much older than Jacob. College is four years. US law schools are three more. Add another 2-3 for baby and legal accomplishments and he might well be 10 years older. So Jacob was about 8 when Harrison left for college.
So, Jacob doesn’t so much idolise the real Harrison but rather the reputation of the man, mixed with some vague memories of a beloved big brother in his early childhood.
Sounds about right to me.
Oh, he might see him at family holidays, when Harrison isn’t too busy with his own (assumed) life of being Fantastically Cool. I imagine that at those gatherings, everyone (Jacob included) fawns over him.
I think that Joyce has been more completely honest and open with Jacob than she has with almost anyone else about her feelings and uncertainties, hasn’t she?
Maybe Joe since she was texting with him about family issues and fears, but other than that pretty much yeah.
Everyone seems dead-set on this not working out for Joyce and Jacob, but I keep seeing a parallel here to how my last relationship ended.
The person I was dating and I were not a good fit. We had enough shared interests to maintain momentum, but it was becoming clear we were very different people with very different priorities. I was having fun, sure, but there were plenty of moments where they would say something and I would cringe, or I would say something and they would get quiet. Nothing abusive mind you, just things we disagreed on at a fundamental level (that word being especially appropriate in their case).
Then, I had a friend who started spending more and more time with me. We fit together FAR better, had far more in common, and didn’t disagree on so many fundamentals. I don’t think anything quite this far along the road to cheating ever happened, but it was fast becoming more than just friendship. Eventually, things came to a head and my partner and I broke it off (it came out later that they were cheating on me in a far more literal sense), but my friend who I had connected with and I did end up together.
I guess what I’m saying is not to discount the effect that a more comfortable relationship can have on a rocky one, and that Jacob is his own person who isn’t married to anyone. The moments of Jacob being uncomfortable with Raidah (or at least what she’s saying) are going to come into play at some point, and I believe there’s a path here that ends with Joyce and Jacob together.
Also, I there’s a part of me that wants to see how Raidah would handle being the dumpee in this situation. College IS about learning after all 🙂
Yeah, that’s how I see this playing out too. Everyone wants to jump on how this is the worst thing ever, but like, numerous relationships come about from situations nearly identical to this one. Just sometimes, you ended up in a relationship and a friendship at the same time, and you realize you like the friend a hell of a lot more.
Yeah, it kinda sucks, it’s kinda emotional cheating, but it also happens a lot. And even before Jacob or Joyce was willing to say they were into the other person, there was a lot of hints that they just really enjoyed each other’s company. Jacob showing up with grape juice, for instances.
They might just end up together, not because of this lie, but because this lie showed Jacob something he’d rather have than what he does. He clicks with Joyce on a very easy level. Raidah, on the other hand, has already hinted she’s mostly with him for his brother, and to groom him into being his brother. He definitely doesn’t have the same easy grin on his face when she’s encouraging him to do something because it’s what his brother would do.
Oh, absolutely, Jacob and Joyce are a great fit, and in the long run, I think their relationship has every chance of working out. If they can get past this precise situation they’re in right now, which is three different garbage fires at once.
It ain’t happening.
Which is mostly what upsets me about this whole approach. I do think they’d make a great couple, but “Crappy rom-com shenanigans lead to real romance” is not the lesson Joyce is going to learn here.
I’m really not seeing these “Jacob was uncomfortable with Raidah” signs everyone claims.
There are times he seemed uncomfortable in her presence, but there were always other reasonable explanations.
I dunno, I think Jacob looks sorta crushed by Raidah here. He was having a good time, and then within minutes of leaving the restaurant with Joyce, this becomes his expression when he’s alone with Raidah:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/numerous/
There’s also Jacob going “Hey, want to hang out like a couple?” and Raidah immediately turning him down:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/fool/
Those are mostly what makes me go “Whoof”, to quote Jacob. He does not look super pleased with his perfect girlfriend, especially in that first one where she just seems hella catty.
Like I said other explanations. The surface read of that first one is he’s worrying about meeting with Harrison and then imaging Harrison’s reaction to Joyce’s weird hangups. It’s possible he’s actually reacting negatively to Raidah being catty, but the first is the more obvious interpretation. That Raidah’s manipulation is working. We see it, he doesn’t.
As for the other, not wanting to fool around right now isn’t a crime and we don’t even see his face for the reaction. As far as we can tell he seems fine with it. And seriously that situation, which is the strip after he and Joyce came back all flirty and Joyce all obviously guilty, isn’t exactly something that would inspire most to be romantic.
I think it’s time we meet this “Jordan” character.
Wait. Wait. Wait. I might be totally off sides here but was Harrison always the brother? Is Harrison trans and that was part of his commitment to the anti-trans laws? It wasn’t part of his plan! His wife wasn’t part of his plans… professionally or any wife at all? Jaime wasn’t planned either…
And yes, I know he just might mean “unexpected” and the different ways to take it are above but I’m hoping for a trans character who is secure and successful rather than brash porcupine or hiding. (Legit responses btw, just it’s nice to have an example of a win).
Do you remember what comics had Jacob and his girlfriend talking about Harrison?
Only three times I think:
– https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/
– https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/numerous/
– https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/fool/
BUT Jacob’s been cool with two people coming out to each other in his room while they basically forgot he was there, he has a strong sense of how powerful sex can be and respect for nontraditional dynamics to avoid sex and there is this bonus tidbit from Raidah that hints she knows what Harrison’s checklist WAS according to Jacob and pre things that weren’t planned: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/proud/ . Jacob could totally get that level of respect and understanding on his own, but it definitely would have hastened if he had direct experience with those circumstances previously.
Considering Jacob’s idolatry was about about accomplishments (the case being note worthy) and Harrison is putting preference on stuff that wasn’t on the checklist (relationships, that same case), my guess is Jacob thought that those things WERE on a checklist and that’s how to get people to be proud of you.
All we know is he’s trans rights and successful. We can also assume Raidah has the same outlook as her friend Dana because: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/networking/ So, she might be the one with a dad in a law firm and sees the business connections possible in family alliances.
Maybe, but I think it’s reading a lot into very thin evidence.
I’m not reading into it At All. Way more explanations above and it’s a vary vague statement. If taken to extreme of “I had a list. None of those were on it ever (wife, kid, lawsuit (not just success). Those are the best parts” it can be unexpected yaaaasy or it can be – I didnt feel allowed to play that way.
I love that “shocked Pikachu” expression