[✓] Joyce dropped the “Mrs.” plan and is now going w/ “It’s complicated”
[✘] Jacob made a decide
[✓] Jaime had a laugh at the gooberhead adults
[✓] Jen AsideAna Chronistic used the more attractive [✓] vs. the compact crap emoji ☑
Regina George literally got hit by a bus and had a major spinal injury to cause her change of heart.
Vivian realized her boyfriend was a slimeball douchebag who had likely been lying about Elle and didn’t care about Vivian. (And whatever you feel about Jacob he’s nowhere near that low so raidah will need to date a slimeball)
So given the comic maybe but do you think she’ll want one?
So I’m going to go out on a limb here because I know I’m very likely in the minority, but I think Raidah gets a lot of flak she doesn’t necessarily deserve.
Speaking as someone who has done many illicit substances over the years and has since gotten mostly clean, I’ve always been pretty upset with the way Sarah got Dana sent home. And it’s not that I don’t understand where Sarah was coming from! If my grades were dropping and I was having trouble studying because of my roommate’s drug use, I would be pretty upset, given college is a lot of money. However, I know that roommates that don’t get along have the option to go to their RA or whoever and try to be placed somewhere else, and as far as I remember, Sarah didn’t go down that route. She basically stopped one step short of calling the cops on her roommate, and like I said, I understand where Sarah was coming from, but it seems a little harsh, and very harsh given the only drug we knew Dana was consuming for certain was weed. Now I know everyone has their own opinions on substances like weed and booze, and maybe one could argue that Sarah’s reaching out to Dana’s father helped Dana in the very long run, but I didn’t need a roommate to get me kicked out of college my freshman year, and after that happened it was much easier to just continue digging my own grave for years to come.
That being said, Raidah has definitely treated Sarah very poorly, but she was also one of the first to really give Sarah a chance. Of course, calling Sarah names and bullying her kind of cancels that out, but Sarah punched Raidah in the face. Raidah had every right to do the same to Sarah that Sarah did to Dana in that moment and call the police, because that kind of behavior is not acceptable, and she chose not to file any charges, so there’s another “kindness” for you. Raidah also has pretty much every right to be a little worried about Joyce (especially given what’s happening right now), even if one feels possessiveness is pretty scummy (which I do). You also have moments like Raidah keeping Char in check using derogatory language.
Like I said, I know I’m in the minority, and I also know Raidah is not without sin, but I think grouping Raidah in with the likes of Mary, or old Ruthless, or any other “antagonists” is kind of bullshit. And I know as a wacky tobacky smoker I’m definitely biased, and I can see a lot of my brother in Sarah, but damn, my brother never threw me under any buses like that despite being straight edge.
So I am hoping the two can find a way to bury the hatchet, and I’m also keeping my fingers crossed that Willis maybe lightens up on some of the drinkers/smokers (which I think he has started to do as the comic has grown).
Dana was using a LOT of weed accompanied by heavy, guttural sobbing.
Sarah said she did it for Dana and she told dana’s Dad, not the school. Am I remembering wrong?
The silly, dangerous fetishization of weed did drew Dana super hard for no reason but that’s extra.
I can only speak from my own experience here, but
1. anxiety makes talking to someone like the RA about problems REALLY HARD, and it feels better to just handle things like this directly (they were supposed to be friends, where RA feels like “last resort” level to said person with anxiety)
2. there’s no way for a never-user to be able to gauge, “ok this level of use is fine and she’ll get past this hurdle just fine if I can tough it out”, and also no way to know “hey Dana Dad, I’m concerned about your daughter” equals “Dad pulls Daughter out of school” vs. “Dad gets Daughter some help but she’s back in school after some rehab”
3. having a toxic roommate situation is REALLY HARD when you can’t safely sleep elsewhere in a pinch (not without a bad back later), and switching can lead to other problems (devil you know vs. the one you don’t)
So some of it may indeed be misplaced anger, but this isn’t exactly a cast of well-adjusted individuals able to objectively read every situation correctly 🤷 I mean, Sarah admitted she didn’t know how to handle things the best way, after all.
I get the impression Raidah is what you get when your checklist forgets to include little details like: compassionate, modest, sincere, tolerant, cheerful, loving, capable of laughing at herself.
Raidah is what you get when you don’t sit down and be honest about the personality you’re most compatible with longterm. Plenty of people will be compatible with raidah. Jacob isn’t one.
Like how Mary found a compatible boyfriend its not because Mary is innately compatible with all boys she’s just brutally honest about what she wants.
Sadly for Jacob he fits the “people pleasing doormat” checklists so he’s going to attract the worst people for him…
I tentatively disagree. Jacob is Harrison-pleasing, not people-pleasing in general. And, speaking from personal experience, it’s possible to leave something off your checklist because you assume everyone is that way.
Once I signed up for a dating site that asked dozens of questions about who I wanted to date. I answered them thoughtfully. A few months later I met someone who was 95% compatible with what I’d said.
…I forgot to specify “basically honest; not abusive.”
Good lord that sounds terrible! I don’t have any experience in the online dating scene to speak about it, I got lucky by at some point realising that my future husband was a mostly responsible person who also had an intellectual side… he won me over p much for this reason (panel 2): https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/02/06/we-are-only-trying-to-help
(posts this fully aware that said hubby complained nonstop last night about the “bullshit” play mechanic in Collection of Mana when he never once stocked up on healing potions or used a charge attack after the tutorial about it… no one said he was a good strategist)
Frankly I think Jacob is also Raidah pleasing (which, as you know, is not inherently healthy) right now is being Joyce pleasing and has even been overly accommodating to both Ethan and Sarah.
Well, “tolerant” is work in progress with Joyce. Considering her starting point, she is doing quite the job, but she has way to go still.
On the plus site, she is no dyed in the wool hypocrite. She is hardest on herself, and where she is privileged by not being in conflict with her upbringing, she is quick in letting compassion and sense overrule her preinstalled morals.
Okay, so Joyce has been relatively Amber-adjacent or “South of Amber” this whole time (Amber had a more valid reason for attaching herself to Danny, albeit still unnecessarily pressuring him into bad spots), but she just won back a pretty decent chunk of respect by at least recognizing how crummy it is to press someone into complimenting you under these circumstances.
I’m certain she’ll make them up again eventually, but yeah I was expecting this to be a trashfire and am still stunned by the unique and distinct ways Joyce chose to set this dumpster on fire.
Sort of.
I mean, it looks like he realizes he was using the wrong checklist to win his brother’s approval and he needs to follow a more complicated checklist that involves not being so obvious about following a checklist?
Much of his motivation for playing along with Joyce here is still because Harrison approves of her and is trashing his original plan, not because of his own decisions.
I don’t really find him all that confusing. He seems to be someone who has his life together and likes to be organized. He sees his brother struggling to imitate him and he’s sad, not because he doesn’t want Jacob to be like him, but because he wants Jacob to be his own person. He doesn’t want Jacob to live up to him, he wants him to forge his own path and find happiness on HIS OWN terms. I think he’d be ok if Jacob genuinely wanted the things he’s aspiring to, but he’s attentive enough to know that it’s not what Jacob really wants. He wants it because of hero-worship for his brother. And that’s not a good reason to want something.
I think he’s only confusing because we had preconceived notions about him.
Harrison has a specific personality type and the self awareness to know that Jacob is NOT the same person. He also knows Jacob really looks up to him and wants to follow in his footsteps, even if that may not be best for Jacob.
I assume Harrison is at least a few years out of college, late 20s if not 30s. That’s a stage where people have huge changes in perspective vs their college years, plus it means he’s gotten some big distance from his childhood and Jacob that allows reflection.
He’s seen people burn out of his career path or realize they only got on it to please their families. Depending on how long he’s been in the industry, its not unlikely he’s seen marriages fall apart when people realized they married for status not compatibility. So he’s seen enough to shake him out of the college age idealism and realize his path isn’t right for everyone. Plus he’s gotten married and had a baby, which will also change your perspective on things.
He genuinely wants to support Jacob for who Jacob is, and doesn’t want Jacob to be one of the colleagues he’s seen go into law and marry the person they thought their parents approved of only to crash and burn. While being aware of the example he’s set and shadow he casts.
Yeah, it seems likely she’ll change at some point. I’d also put good odds on Walky changing to something else but don’t know what. (Deeeefinitely not premed, though. Fuck you, Linda.)
I’m not sure Sal is declared? Her cast page doesn’t list a major and if she mentioned one in strip once, I don’t remember it.
Early in the comic Joyce was only majoring in elementary education until she found a suitable man to get her MRS degree. I suspect she’s no longer following that plan though.
Jacob said Joyce was his girlfriend. That might change when he finds out the misunderstanding was Joyce’s fault… but I somehow doubt it, especially after Jacob’s reaction to Joyce in the previous strip.
These two both have a lot of growing up finding themselves to do. Maybe they can do it together.
(OK, growing up also. But I think finding themselves – learning who they really are – is actually more important here.)
He did seem really iffy on how he was feeling with Raidah all on his own before this started. Nothing says he has to have _feelings_ for Joyce, but… Maybe he’s realizing there could at least possibly be something good there. Big Brother Approval clearly pulls weight and Joyce scores high on the BBA Index at least.
Joyce’s mind: “I AM SORRY I AM SORRY I AM SORRY I AM SORRY!!!!”
Jacob’s mind: “Wow, she is offering me an outing. Maybe we can survive this.”
Harrison: “I like that you choose a normal impulsive girl instead of someone like us.”
Jacob: “Dammit Harrison! You are making it hard to be honest with you!”
I don’t think that’s it. Joyce has obviously noticed that Jacob really wants his brother’s approval, and she just basically just dumped a confession of her love on him. Jacob is in a pretty tough spot. He may not even know how he feels about Joyce thinking that highly of him, Harrison would love to hear what those feelings are, so Jacob’s choices are to waffle about or lie or both or suddenly declare that Joyce is in fact NOT his girlfriend. And not one of those is a good option at this point, they just have different bad consequences. Joyce providing Jacob with an out like that is arguably more for Jacob’s sake than for her own. If they dropped the act now it would be over immediately for her, Jacob otoh would have to live with explaining what happened to his brother who he admires and wants to be like, his brother who he admires and wants to be like being disappointed with him.
Joyce may not be entirely unselfish here, but the person who benefits most is Jacob.
Education so she could homeschool she would have the children with the godly man she would marry thus shielding them from the sinfulness of homosexuals and atheists.
Ok say what you will about the possible situation Joyce has gotten them both into but I can’t help but love how much she doesn’t want to put any pressure to on Jacob in the same fashion he wouldn’t on her…. but then again it’s the least she can do considering the situation they’re in.
She didn’t go into this with insidious intentions, I don’t think. She can still be like “Your brother guessed I was your girlfriend and then he was just so HAPPY about it I didn’t have the heart to tell him otherwise! Thanks for playing along.”
What’s after that though is, “he does make some good points about why it might look like we are though…”
Read more to me like “Oh god, I adore babies, what can I say to be allowed to stay longer without looking wired”. I don’t think any thought about Raidah was in her head at that moment.
I’m with CJ on this. The smell of babies is what started all this. She didn’t piece together who Harrison was until after first contact. Her uterus just hasn’t made the same personal growth around boundaries as her brain has made. Probably due to repression and it was it’s first chance to declare intent.
Of course she wasn’t thinking about Raidah, she never thinks about Raidah, except when she’s there.
In that moment, maybe. But it was all primed by her feelings for Jacob and her prior plans to actually become his girlfriend. You can’t just pretend that didn’t happen.
Google says it’s from 30 Rock, which I believe to be a TV show. I wouldn’t go into court and swear to it, though. Jenna had evidently become the celebrity face of wool.
Yeeeep. It’s okay to have a checklist for a romantic partner (particularly when it comes to “BIG LIFE GOALS” like having children, which trust me, can make or break relationships down the line), but have a checklist for what’s important to YOU, not what’s important to other people.
I wonder what Joyce will end up majoring in. When she started college she was all ‘I”m REALLY here to find a husband’, and Becky at least mentioned that her major in Education was because then she could homeschool her future kids. If it wad the same for Joyce, that that was the major she was EXPECTED to take, and not really something she thought more about, what will she end up taking in the end?
My guess? Social work. She cares a lot about people and genuinely wants to help. She messes up a ton but she recognizes it each time (except for maybe this time) and tries to do better next time.
Lots of people major in social work– and go to grad school for social work– to become therapists. So that could be what she does, though I’m still rooting for fighter pilot!Joyce.
I’m on fighter pilot or chef train. She wants to be a fighter pilot who comes home to make her kids mac and cheese… she just needs to upgrade away from the box and face her fears once and for all! Food. WILL. Touch… wonder if food is her mental proxy for genders not touching? OTHER SIDE OF THE PLATE JENNY!
I used to live in a dorm that was mostly social workers (and located in one of the worst neighborhoods of the city. Now I’m imagining Joyce there and idk if it’s hilarious or horrifying.
I know it won’t happen but it’d be best for her to take some time off school, get a job, live in an apartment with roommates, work with a therapist who helps with undoing this level of programming, and figure out who she wants to be now.
Something like social work or psychology does seem possible but honestly I think it’d still be her sticking I hwr (very limited) comfort zone rather than facing what she truly desires.
When she gave herself permission to really daydream she wanted to like fly planes. Right now she’s ruled by neuroses and brainwashing and I think she would be like Becky and go in a totally ddifferent direction if shecould let herself.d
Harrison and Jacob’s dynamic is an odd one for me to piece together. A sibling trying to live up to another is common, but it’s very unusual for it to be acknowledged as openly as all this.
Like, is this one of those things where Harrison went to college and had some list of, “this is what I am looking for in a potential partner”, and has been happy with the results, so Jacob’s copying that strategy? Otherwise, this exchange is puzzling me a bit.
Dorothy has lists for everything. If she considered finding a husband to be a priority then I’d bet shed have had a checklist for what makes an appropriate “First Gentleman”.
Joyce had a questionnaire to verify potential mates, basically a checklist.
Their friends know about them and even if it hasn’t been explicitly stated I’ll bet their families are aware of them (in Joyce’s case her parents were likely heavily involved in making it).
I feel like raidah has referenced a similar list, even if it’s only mental, but I don’t like her and can’t be bothered archive binging over her.
Not clear why him having had a checklist and Jacob knowing is so weird given the characters we have.
Its not that uncommon to have a list of ” traits I want in a partner” and if you’re an organized list maker then you’ll naturally write it out.
I think it’s not the fact that Jacob has a checklist tis weird, but rather thqt both Harrison and Jacob acknowledge that Jacob’s checklist is a result of his idolizing his brother
I think what ultimately is odd is the openly acknowledging the way Jacob is trying to live up to his brother.’
I don’t think having a list even a mental list is weird, but I think older brother is more concerned that Jacob will choose a girlfriend based on what he thinks will impress him rather than what Jacob really wants.
Honestly I think having a list is not a bad idea but there are different types of lists.
There’s lists where you make up a theoretically perfect partner.
Then there is a list of hard nos and soft nos.
And if you put too much weight on the perfect partner list you can proberly end up with someone who is a great fit for you on paper instead of someone you actually want to date.
I think everyone should have a list of hard nos which they won’t remove from during a relationship.
For example I don’t want to date an addict. I don’t want to date someone who will expect me to adult for two. I don’t want anyone in a committed exclusive relationship. I don’t want to date someone if my sister’s don’t approve or my parents don’t approve for a reason that makes sense to me.
And still successfully avoiding to draw any more babies. Has Jaime gotten away while everyone is talking? Could be fun to have Raidah come back with ‘m..
Jacob’s key learning from this lunch will be that Harrison does not want him to become another Harrison. Also that, even if he did, Jacob is probably going the wrong way about it.
Huh. Did Joyce ever have reason to think she was being unfair to Jacob?
Unfair to Raidah, yes, of course, but given Raidah’s personality, I’m kind of willing to see her be collateral damage here.
Manipulative toward Jacob, kinda’, and that’s not totally cool, but it’s different from unfair. And she wasn’t doing it for her own advantage. And objectively I think Jacob will be a lot happier with someone other than Raidah.
Telling Harrison she was Jacob’s girlfriend was just a moment of brain-freeze stupidity, which she was trying to mitigate 30 seconds later by literally running away.
So … I’m not saying Joyce was being good, or nice, or principled, or even unselfish. But I’m just not sure she was being unfair to Jacob.
Let’s be honest here, she was running away in panic over being found out and having to face the consequences, not in any attempt to mitigate the damage.
This is inches away from ‘no harm, no foul’ territory.
It’s still REALLY HECKING weird of Joyce, but Jacob can almost read it in a way that shines a good light on Joyce (he’d have to make a lot of assumptions, but it’s possible)
That being said, there’s no way this goes smoothly with Willis at the helm. (it also probably wouldn’t work in reality, so no one try it.)
Also, it makes sense to me now that Joyce would pull this ridiculous stunt to latch onto Jacob; I think she feels totally adrift in life – no future plan, no faith in her family, losing her religion … I bet Jacob’s checklistiness is part of what drew her to him.
Especially the item on the checklist that reads “become beefcake”.
I know what Joyce is doing is pretty messed up, and I’m kinda worried how Jacob will react by the end, but I’d be really happy if Jacob DOES get mad that she takes and understands it and thanks him for being her friend. I think if the two of them do become a couple, it’ll be because she establishes how much she values him and cares about him as her friend and doesn’t treat him like her destined husband. She’ll have to take the responsibility for putting Jacob in this situation, and understand that she was being selfish. Jacob is a really kind person, and I think a really forgiving person, but I want to see a relationship grow because they respect and care for each other, not because of Harrison’s presence/intervention. I’m also worried what is going to happen if/when Raidah shows up, because then it’s gonna fall apart, and even if Raidah is a bully, she has no agency in this.
I’m really excited for this plotline though, it’s satisfying my DRAMA needs!
One of the things I like about this comic is how complex the characters are. They are not all good. They are not all bad. I think this includes Raidah. She suffered a trauma that she is having trouble getting over and it is causing her to lash out at someone who she feels is responsible for that trauma unfairly because she can’t overcome the negative emotions from that experience.
That sounds like a description of a lot of these characters. That sounds like a description of most people I know. She is acting badly. No question, but that doesn’t mean there is nothing but evil and hatred in her soul.
Loading ...
[✓] Joyce dropped the “Mrs.” plan and is now going w/ “It’s complicated”
[✘] Jacob made a decide
[✓] Jaime had a laugh at the gooberhead adults
[✓]
Jen AsideAna Chronistic used the more attractive [✓] vs. the compact crap emoji ☑[?] Raidah (and Sarah) walk in on this, Sarah has BEST BIRTHDAY EVAR
I like to think Sarah is already watching this unfold, popcorn in hand.
Don’t ask me. I’m still in awe of Ana’s checkfu.
And you still posted this at 12:01. Time mage Ana confirmed.
I can’t even *see* the new comic until at least 12:03-12:05 usually. That’s normal, right?
Patreons see the comics a day early? I imagine Ana is well prepared (very checklist)
Raidah “checks off all the boxes” on a checklist Jacob was not very self-directed to assemble? Hmm.
Raidah is what happened when the checklist was hooked up to a computer and struck by lightning like in Weird Science.
Radiah is what happens when you mix a Heather, a Mean Girl and the rival in Legally Blonde.
But the Mean Girls and the rival in Legally Blonde all chill out by the end of their respective movies. So will we get a Raidahmption?
Given current pacing, I’d put the “end” of 4 years in college at sometime around 2080, so let’s go with a theoretical “yeah why not!” 🙂
Regina George literally got hit by a bus and had a major spinal injury to cause her change of heart.
Vivian realized her boyfriend was a slimeball douchebag who had likely been lying about Elle and didn’t care about Vivian. (And whatever you feel about Jacob he’s nowhere near that low so raidah will need to date a slimeball)
So given the comic maybe but do you think she’ll want one?
Regina also had a Wolverine-level healing factor, considering she was playing lacrosse the next year.
If she had a Wolverine-level healing factor she’d have been playing lacrosse that afternoon.
Bub.
So I’m going to go out on a limb here because I know I’m very likely in the minority, but I think Raidah gets a lot of flak she doesn’t necessarily deserve.
Speaking as someone who has done many illicit substances over the years and has since gotten mostly clean, I’ve always been pretty upset with the way Sarah got Dana sent home. And it’s not that I don’t understand where Sarah was coming from! If my grades were dropping and I was having trouble studying because of my roommate’s drug use, I would be pretty upset, given college is a lot of money. However, I know that roommates that don’t get along have the option to go to their RA or whoever and try to be placed somewhere else, and as far as I remember, Sarah didn’t go down that route. She basically stopped one step short of calling the cops on her roommate, and like I said, I understand where Sarah was coming from, but it seems a little harsh, and very harsh given the only drug we knew Dana was consuming for certain was weed. Now I know everyone has their own opinions on substances like weed and booze, and maybe one could argue that Sarah’s reaching out to Dana’s father helped Dana in the very long run, but I didn’t need a roommate to get me kicked out of college my freshman year, and after that happened it was much easier to just continue digging my own grave for years to come.
That being said, Raidah has definitely treated Sarah very poorly, but she was also one of the first to really give Sarah a chance. Of course, calling Sarah names and bullying her kind of cancels that out, but Sarah punched Raidah in the face. Raidah had every right to do the same to Sarah that Sarah did to Dana in that moment and call the police, because that kind of behavior is not acceptable, and she chose not to file any charges, so there’s another “kindness” for you. Raidah also has pretty much every right to be a little worried about Joyce (especially given what’s happening right now), even if one feels possessiveness is pretty scummy (which I do). You also have moments like Raidah keeping Char in check using derogatory language.
Like I said, I know I’m in the minority, and I also know Raidah is not without sin, but I think grouping Raidah in with the likes of Mary, or old Ruthless, or any other “antagonists” is kind of bullshit. And I know as a wacky tobacky smoker I’m definitely biased, and I can see a lot of my brother in Sarah, but damn, my brother never threw me under any buses like that despite being straight edge.
So I am hoping the two can find a way to bury the hatchet, and I’m also keeping my fingers crossed that Willis maybe lightens up on some of the drinkers/smokers (which I think he has started to do as the comic has grown).
Also pls no flame me 🙁
Dana was using a LOT of weed accompanied by heavy, guttural sobbing.
Sarah said she did it for Dana and she told dana’s Dad, not the school. Am I remembering wrong?
The silly, dangerous fetishization of weed did drew Dana super hard for no reason but that’s extra.
I can only speak from my own experience here, but
1. anxiety makes talking to someone like the RA about problems REALLY HARD, and it feels better to just handle things like this directly (they were supposed to be friends, where RA feels like “last resort” level to said person with anxiety)
2. there’s no way for a never-user to be able to gauge, “ok this level of use is fine and she’ll get past this hurdle just fine if I can tough it out”, and also no way to know “hey Dana Dad, I’m concerned about your daughter” equals “Dad pulls Daughter out of school” vs. “Dad gets Daughter some help but she’s back in school after some rehab”
3. having a toxic roommate situation is REALLY HARD when you can’t safely sleep elsewhere in a pinch (not without a bad back later), and switching can lead to other problems (devil you know vs. the one you don’t)
So some of it may indeed be misplaced anger, but this isn’t exactly a cast of well-adjusted individuals able to objectively read every situation correctly 🤷 I mean, Sarah admitted she didn’t know how to handle things the best way, after all.
I get the impression Raidah is what you get when your checklist forgets to include little details like: compassionate, modest, sincere, tolerant, cheerful, loving, capable of laughing at herself.
^ This. So much this.
That’s like forgetting “Don’t become skynet” in your self-evolving code.
Raidah is what you get when you don’t sit down and be honest about the personality you’re most compatible with longterm. Plenty of people will be compatible with raidah. Jacob isn’t one.
Like how Mary found a compatible boyfriend its not because Mary is innately compatible with all boys she’s just brutally honest about what she wants.
Sadly for Jacob he fits the “people pleasing doormat” checklists so he’s going to attract the worst people for him…
I tentatively disagree. Jacob is Harrison-pleasing, not people-pleasing in general. And, speaking from personal experience, it’s possible to leave something off your checklist because you assume everyone is that way.
Once I signed up for a dating site that asked dozens of questions about who I wanted to date. I answered them thoughtfully. A few months later I met someone who was 95% compatible with what I’d said.
…I forgot to specify “basically honest; not abusive.”
…It was some of the worst months of my life.
Good lord that sounds terrible! I don’t have any experience in the online dating scene to speak about it, I got lucky by at some point realising that my future husband was a mostly responsible person who also had an intellectual side… he won me over p much for this reason (panel 2): https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/02/06/we-are-only-trying-to-help
(posts this fully aware that said hubby complained nonstop last night about the “bullshit” play mechanic in Collection of Mana when he never once stocked up on healing potions or used a charge attack after the tutorial about it… no one said he was a good strategist)
But, was he complaining in Sanscrit?
(I mean, the joke is Sanskrit isn’t a spoken language)
Yeah really important to add “not abusive” to it.
Frankly I think Jacob is also Raidah pleasing (which, as you know, is not inherently healthy) right now is being Joyce pleasing and has even been overly accommodating to both Ethan and Sarah.
Which points to a trend of people pleasing.
Well, “tolerant” is work in progress with Joyce. Considering her starting point, she is doing quite the job, but she has way to go still.
On the plus site, she is no dyed in the wool hypocrite. She is hardest on herself, and where she is privileged by not being in conflict with her upbringing, she is quick in letting compassion and sense overrule her preinstalled morals.
Okay, so Joyce has been relatively Amber-adjacent or “South of Amber” this whole time (Amber had a more valid reason for attaching herself to Danny, albeit still unnecessarily pressuring him into bad spots), but she just won back a pretty decent chunk of respect by at least recognizing how crummy it is to press someone into complimenting you under these circumstances.
OTOH Amber was actually kind of dating Danny at the time, even if he didn’t realize it, not trying to break up a couple.
> South of Amber
Mon-Fri 11AM on NBC
Checklist; no checklists….
Wait….Bugger…
Checklist-22?
I fear he may reject solely because she’s gained approval
They’re only checks I’ve left unsigned
From the Banks of Chaos in my mind…
Joyce, you’ve earned one google noodle star for not making Jacob follow that up.
You’ve lost like 50 in this little escapade, so you REALLY NEEDED the good noodle star. 😛
I’m certain she’ll make them up again eventually, but yeah I was expecting this to be a trashfire and am still stunned by the unique and distinct ways Joyce chose to set this dumpster on fire.
Oh, she absolutely will. But for now –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGQx37dwnhM
^ This has been me this entire plot line of her and Jacob. 😛
It is deserved.
I mean, she has a whole truck’s worth left to burn through before she’s anywhere near Bad Egg, but yeah. XD
Pretty sure I saw some actual Joyce Faces in that clip.
It is always possible to roast marshmellows over a trashfire.
Just make sure you don’t eat the marshmellow afterwards, I can’t imagine the carcinogens and nasty chemicals resulting from that combustion process.
Just so long as the good noodle stars only have butter on them. Maybe a meatball or two on top, that could possibly be survivable.
Good noodle stars are star shaped stickers. XD
But what about google noodles?
This is turning into a growth opportunity for Jacob.
If nothing else comes from it, that alone is good.
Sort of.
I mean, it looks like he realizes he was using the wrong checklist to win his brother’s approval and he needs to follow a more complicated checklist that involves not being so obvious about following a checklist?
Much of his motivation for playing along with Joyce here is still because Harrison approves of her and is trashing his original plan, not because of his own decisions.
Harrison confuses me but he also seems like a decent family member so I am compelled to like him.
I don’t really find him all that confusing. He seems to be someone who has his life together and likes to be organized. He sees his brother struggling to imitate him and he’s sad, not because he doesn’t want Jacob to be like him, but because he wants Jacob to be his own person. He doesn’t want Jacob to live up to him, he wants him to forge his own path and find happiness on HIS OWN terms. I think he’d be ok if Jacob genuinely wanted the things he’s aspiring to, but he’s attentive enough to know that it’s not what Jacob really wants. He wants it because of hero-worship for his brother. And that’s not a good reason to want something.
Well said.
I think he’s only confusing because we had preconceived notions about him.
Harrison has a specific personality type and the self awareness to know that Jacob is NOT the same person. He also knows Jacob really looks up to him and wants to follow in his footsteps, even if that may not be best for Jacob.
I assume Harrison is at least a few years out of college, late 20s if not 30s. That’s a stage where people have huge changes in perspective vs their college years, plus it means he’s gotten some big distance from his childhood and Jacob that allows reflection.
He’s seen people burn out of his career path or realize they only got on it to please their families. Depending on how long he’s been in the industry, its not unlikely he’s seen marriages fall apart when people realized they married for status not compatibility. So he’s seen enough to shake him out of the college age idealism and realize his path isn’t right for everyone. Plus he’s gotten married and had a baby, which will also change your perspective on things.
He genuinely wants to support Jacob for who Jacob is, and doesn’t want Jacob to be one of the colleagues he’s seen go into law and marry the person they thought their parents approved of only to crash and burn. While being aware of the example he’s set and shadow he casts.
Joyce’s major makes me think – is anyone in the cast formally undeclared? Last I checked you can still enter as a freshman without declaring a major.
When she started at least, Joyce was majoring in Education as I recall.
Elementary Education.
Yeah, it seems likely she’ll change at some point. I’d also put good odds on Walky changing to something else but don’t know what. (Deeeefinitely not premed, though. Fuck you, Linda.)
I’m not sure Sal is declared? Her cast page doesn’t list a major and if she mentioned one in strip once, I don’t remember it.
tbh I really hope Joyce goes into science or maybe a different level of education. Her ideal future self had like 5 jobs, so maybe one of those.
I just want joyce to be happy. ; w ;
Early in the comic Joyce was only majoring in elementary education until she found a suitable man to get her MRS degree. I suspect she’s no longer following that plan though.
It’d be funny if she somehow ended up with a degree in microbiology and was an expert in Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus or MRSA.
Sal, Ethan, and Joe.
Thought Sal might be! Wasn’t sure about Ethan and Joe but makes sense. Thanks!
No problem!
Isn’t Ethan undeclared but considering switching to journalism?
English, yeah, when he was talking to Joss.
Somehow I think this little gambit of Joyce’s is going to end with Jacob single.
Jacob said Joyce was his girlfriend. That might change when he finds out the misunderstanding was Joyce’s fault… but I somehow doubt it, especially after Jacob’s reaction to Joyce in the previous strip.
These two both have a lot of
growing upfinding themselves to do. Maybe they can do it together.(OK, growing up also. But I think finding themselves – learning who they really are – is actually more important here.)
He did seem really iffy on how he was feeling with Raidah all on his own before this started. Nothing says he has to have _feelings_ for Joyce, but… Maybe he’s realizing there could at least possibly be something good there. Big Brother Approval clearly pulls weight and Joyce scores high on the BBA Index at least.
Joyce’s mind: “I AM SORRY I AM SORRY I AM SORRY I AM SORRY!!!!”
Jacob’s mind: “Wow, she is offering me an outing. Maybe we can survive this.”
Harrison: “I like that you choose a normal impulsive girl instead of someone like us.”
Jacob: “Dammit Harrison! You are making it hard to be honest with you!”
Jacob’s mind*
Interesting. I read Joyce’s response as “I know you don’t feel the same way, but please don’t ruin this.”
I don’t think that’s it. Joyce has obviously noticed that Jacob really wants his brother’s approval, and she just basically just dumped a confession of her love on him. Jacob is in a pretty tough spot. He may not even know how he feels about Joyce thinking that highly of him, Harrison would love to hear what those feelings are, so Jacob’s choices are to waffle about or lie or both or suddenly declare that Joyce is in fact NOT his girlfriend. And not one of those is a good option at this point, they just have different bad consequences. Joyce providing Jacob with an out like that is arguably more for Jacob’s sake than for her own. If they dropped the act now it would be over immediately for her, Jacob otoh would have to live with explaining what happened to his brother who he admires and wants to be like, his brother who he admires and wants to be like being disappointed with him.
Joyce may not be entirely unselfish here, but the person who benefits most is Jacob.
“Checklist? We don’t need no steenking checklist!”
‘Checklist’ doesn’t look like a word anymore.
did joyce even declare a major??
Education.
She did but she was reconsidering at the moment.
Education so she could homeschool she would have the children with the godly man she would marry thus shielding them from the sinfulness of homosexuals and atheists.
So…
Ok say what you will about the possible situation Joyce has gotten them both into but I can’t help but love how much she doesn’t want to put any pressure to on Jacob in the same fashion he wouldn’t on her…. but then again it’s the least she can do considering the situation they’re in.
She didn’t go into this with insidious intentions, I don’t think. She can still be like “Your brother guessed I was your girlfriend and then he was just so HAPPY about it I didn’t have the heart to tell him otherwise! Thanks for playing along.”
What’s after that though is, “he does make some good points about why it might look like we are though…”
Well, no bad intentions other than the whole “I’m going to steal him from Raidah” thing she was supposed to have dropped.
Not impressed with either of them.
Read more to me like “Oh god, I adore babies, what can I say to be allowed to stay longer without looking wired”. I don’t think any thought about Raidah was in her head at that moment.
I’m with CJ on this. The smell of babies is what started all this. She didn’t piece together who Harrison was until after first contact. Her uterus just hasn’t made the same personal growth around boundaries as her brain has made. Probably due to repression and it was it’s first chance to declare intent.
Of course she wasn’t thinking about Raidah, she never thinks about Raidah, except when she’s there.
In that moment, maybe. But it was all primed by her feelings for Jacob and her prior plans to actually become his girlfriend. You can’t just pretend that didn’t happen.
So can anyone point me at the cultural reference of the alt text. Signed, Clueless.
Google says it’s from 30 Rock, which I believe to be a TV show. I wouldn’t go into court and swear to it, though. Jenna had evidently become the celebrity face of wool.
Yes, it was a TV show. And Jenna also had the brains of wool, for the record.
The wool council
“I have a checklist because YOU have a checklist!”
Oh, Jacob…
Role models are a bigger trap than Admiral Ackbar’s catchphrase.
Yeeeep. It’s okay to have a checklist for a romantic partner (particularly when it comes to “BIG LIFE GOALS” like having children, which trust me, can make or break relationships down the line), but have a checklist for what’s important to YOU, not what’s important to other people.
Joyce looks like “You have a checklist? EVEN MOAR ATTRACTIVE”
Stupid humans and their listing of things.
We need to accept that life is nothing but chaos, and throw caution to the wind.
Or not; and make another top 10 list or something. Either way is fine.
I wonder what Joyce will end up majoring in. When she started college she was all ‘I”m REALLY here to find a husband’, and Becky at least mentioned that her major in Education was because then she could homeschool her future kids. If it wad the same for Joyce, that that was the major she was EXPECTED to take, and not really something she thought more about, what will she end up taking in the end?
My guess? Social work. She cares a lot about people and genuinely wants to help. She messes up a ton but she recognizes it each time (except for maybe this time) and tries to do better next time.
Yes, or she might also become a therapist.
Lots of people major in social work– and go to grad school for social work– to become therapists. So that could be what she does, though I’m still rooting for fighter pilot!Joyce.
I’m on fighter pilot or chef train. She wants to be a fighter pilot who comes home to make her kids mac and cheese… she just needs to upgrade away from the box and face her fears once and for all! Food. WILL. Touch… wonder if food is her mental proxy for genders not touching? OTHER SIDE OF THE PLATE JENNY!
She totally recognizes it this time. How can you even doubt it, after this strip?
She recognizes it, the question is how long will she wait to actually do something about it.
I used to live in a dorm that was mostly social workers (and located in one of the worst neighborhoods of the city. Now I’m imagining Joyce there and idk if it’s hilarious or horrifying.
I know it won’t happen but it’d be best for her to take some time off school, get a job, live in an apartment with roommates, work with a therapist who helps with undoing this level of programming, and figure out who she wants to be now.
Something like social work or psychology does seem possible but honestly I think it’d still be her sticking I hwr (very limited) comfort zone rather than facing what she truly desires.
When she gave herself permission to really daydream she wanted to like fly planes. Right now she’s ruled by neuroses and brainwashing and I think she would be like Becky and go in a totally ddifferent direction if shecould let herself.d
My read is not that she is uncertain of her major, but rather that she also bought into the game of not disappointing Harrison.
I think her original plan to major in education to be able to homeschool her future kids kinda lost its appeal.
I want to hate this but it’s actually really good… agh, so conflicted.
Checklists? Are they trying to be Twilight Sparkle?
If so, then Jacob is definitely a very Twilight-like personality.
Harrison and Jacob’s dynamic is an odd one for me to piece together. A sibling trying to live up to another is common, but it’s very unusual for it to be acknowledged as openly as all this.
Like, is this one of those things where Harrison went to college and had some list of, “this is what I am looking for in a potential partner”, and has been happy with the results, so Jacob’s copying that strategy? Otherwise, this exchange is puzzling me a bit.
Dorothy has lists for everything. If she considered finding a husband to be a priority then I’d bet shed have had a checklist for what makes an appropriate “First Gentleman”.
Joyce had a questionnaire to verify potential mates, basically a checklist.
Their friends know about them and even if it hasn’t been explicitly stated I’ll bet their families are aware of them (in Joyce’s case her parents were likely heavily involved in making it).
I feel like raidah has referenced a similar list, even if it’s only mental, but I don’t like her and can’t be bothered archive binging over her.
Not clear why him having had a checklist and Jacob knowing is so weird given the characters we have.
Its not that uncommon to have a list of ” traits I want in a partner” and if you’re an organized list maker then you’ll naturally write it out.
I think it’s not the fact that Jacob has a checklist tis weird, but rather thqt both Harrison and Jacob acknowledge that Jacob’s checklist is a result of his idolizing his brother
I think what ultimately is odd is the openly acknowledging the way Jacob is trying to live up to his brother.’
I don’t think having a list even a mental list is weird, but I think older brother is more concerned that Jacob will choose a girlfriend based on what he thinks will impress him rather than what Jacob really wants.
Honestly I think having a list is not a bad idea but there are different types of lists.
There’s lists where you make up a theoretically perfect partner.
Then there is a list of hard nos and soft nos.
And if you put too much weight on the perfect partner list you can proberly end up with someone who is a great fit for you on paper instead of someone you actually want to date.
I think everyone should have a list of hard nos which they won’t remove from during a relationship.
For example I don’t want to date an addict. I don’t want to date someone who will expect me to adult for two. I don’t want anyone in a committed exclusive relationship. I don’t want to date someone if my sister’s don’t approve or my parents don’t approve for a reason that makes sense to me.
And still successfully avoiding to draw any more babies. Has Jaime gotten away while everyone is talking? Could be fun to have Raidah come back with ‘m..
My head Canon on this critical issue says he’s in one of those baby basket things on the booth bench just off to the side.
Jacob’s key learning from this lunch will be that Harrison does not want him to become another Harrison. Also that, even if he did, Jacob is probably going the wrong way about it.
and that Joyce wants to be his girlfriend, and that a big part of him* wants Joyce to be his girlfriend.
*Yes.
Or that Harrison approves of this girlfriend, so he should switch from the one he thought Harrison would approve of to the one he actually does.
The checklist is more complicated than he thought.
Or -wow, enlightenment- he should stop worrying about his brothers approval and take some time to find out what he himself approves of.
Well, that’s a thought, but there’s no evidence he’s had it yet. 🙂
NOW you worry about being fair to Jacob, Joyce. a bit late in the game, isn’t it?
I have a good noodle star scraper if you need one.
Huh. Did Joyce ever have reason to think she was being unfair to Jacob?
Unfair to Raidah, yes, of course, but given Raidah’s personality, I’m kind of willing to see her be collateral damage here.
Manipulative toward Jacob, kinda’, and that’s not totally cool, but it’s different from unfair. And she wasn’t doing it for her own advantage. And objectively I think Jacob will be a lot happier with someone other than Raidah.
Telling Harrison she was Jacob’s girlfriend was just a moment of brain-freeze stupidity, which she was trying to mitigate 30 seconds later by literally running away.
So … I’m not saying Joyce was being good, or nice, or principled, or even unselfish. But I’m just not sure she was being unfair to Jacob.
She knew she was not the actual girlfriend of whom Harrison had heard. She’s not respecting Jacob’s actual stated boundaries.
Is she a better match for Jacob than Raidah? Probably. Does that make what she’s doing/done okay? No.
Let’s be honest here, she was running away in panic over being found out and having to face the consequences, not in any attempt to mitigate the damage.
These strips need more Jamie. Come on! We finally have an adorable baby in the cast and we don’t even get to see it?
I think that if Jamie bids farewell to Joyce by cooing something like “Sis-sis”, she’ll break and feel like crap for the rest of the day.
I still think there is baby-barf on Joyce in the near future.
Am I the only one who reads Joyce’s expression in panel 5 as meaning: “He does everything by checklists too! Squee! Oh, he’s perfect!”
“Just like Dorothy.” /swoons
Heh
This is inches away from ‘no harm, no foul’ territory.
It’s still REALLY HECKING weird of Joyce, but Jacob can almost read it in a way that shines a good light on Joyce (he’d have to make a lot of assumptions, but it’s possible)
That being said, there’s no way this goes smoothly with Willis at the helm. (it also probably wouldn’t work in reality, so no one try it.)
“YOU HAVE A CHECKLIST!”
“Yeah and it suuuuucked.”
That’s what I’m getting out of this.
I’m enjoying this new perspective on “checklist”~
Also, it makes sense to me now that Joyce would pull this ridiculous stunt to latch onto Jacob; I think she feels totally adrift in life – no future plan, no faith in her family, losing her religion … I bet Jacob’s checklistiness is part of what drew her to him.
Especially the item on the checklist that reads “become beefcake”.
Time from Jacob to stop to emulate his brother? Yes please!
Definitely. That’ll make his brother proud of him.
I just realized, she probably didn’t plan to or intend to say those things. Once they started tumbling out, she couldn’t stop.
Let me test something real quick
I know what Joyce is doing is pretty messed up, and I’m kinda worried how Jacob will react by the end, but I’d be really happy if Jacob DOES get mad that she takes and understands it and thanks him for being her friend. I think if the two of them do become a couple, it’ll be because she establishes how much she values him and cares about him as her friend and doesn’t treat him like her destined husband. She’ll have to take the responsibility for putting Jacob in this situation, and understand that she was being selfish. Jacob is a really kind person, and I think a really forgiving person, but I want to see a relationship grow because they respect and care for each other, not because of Harrison’s presence/intervention. I’m also worried what is going to happen if/when Raidah shows up, because then it’s gonna fall apart, and even if Raidah is a bully, she has no agency in this.
I’m really excited for this plotline though, it’s satisfying my DRAMA needs!
One of the things I like about this comic is how complex the characters are. They are not all good. They are not all bad. I think this includes Raidah. She suffered a trauma that she is having trouble getting over and it is causing her to lash out at someone who she feels is responsible for that trauma unfairly because she can’t overcome the negative emotions from that experience.
That sounds like a description of a lot of these characters. That sounds like a description of most people I know. She is acting badly. No question, but that doesn’t mean there is nothing but evil and hatred in her soul.
Since our actions are inherently meaningless, checklists are existentially absurd.