“Like, it feels the chances that any given ‘straight’ character will get incrementally closer to identifying as pansexual as time goes on are ten billion percent”
Is it “ticking off a … checklist” if the friends you seek out/have for any combination of reasons Person A may be friends with Person B just ending turning out (…) way?
It would be if you sought those friends out for (…) reason but that’s not what’s happening here.
I mean from my experience queer folks seem to gravitate towards each other even before we come out. I’m really not sure why, though. Alternatively, existing around folks coming out could make people more likely to explore their own gender and sexuality by normalizing and humanizing it? But given statistics I doubt that’s the only factor.
Isn’t that the case with most close knit communities? That you somehow drift towards them even before you yourself know or announce that you are part of their subculture? I don’t have any experience with the queer folks, but us nerdgeeks are not only drawn to each other by graviation (though there is a fair amount of mass in the comminity) but simply because even before we learn what roleplaying games are and that webcomics are a thing, we’re different from the other kids.
My Theory is that people who are a certain way gravitate toward people who do not disapprove of their “thing”. That goes for gay, bi, lesbian, Philosophers, Programmers and even Warhammer fans. You want to be around people who don’t disapprove of you. Whether this is conscious or unconscious can very based on person. For me, it’s very conscious. In college especially, where who you interact with is mostly up to you, this effect would be very pronounced.
I was going to comment about how Amber’s totally not straight, then realized she doesn’t seem to give any sort of shits revolving around women, she just likes dudes going at each other.
fuhoshis are not (necessarily) LGBT and can be similarly problematic to lesbian porn devotees.
the original meaning of the word implies ZERO alliance to gay men irl, literally a rotten sexual appetite.
Hmm…Mike…that’s a nope. Billie…she’s got her own problems. Ruth, he barely knows, and, again…her own problems. He doesn’t know the other girls on the floor, so far as we know, but I’m sure Sierra would be happy to talk with him, even so.
According to the Walkypedia, Mike’s sexual orientation is actually listed as “not heterosexual”, though it’s otherwise undefined. I am woefully unqualified to hazard a further guess, but I know that he can be attracted to more than just women.
…But that’s not what MatthewTheLucky actually said?
They said that Mike had sex with Ethan, and that implies that he’s not cishet. That’s like the converse of what you’re saying: ie, you said being LGBTQ+ doesn’t imply having sex with someone of the same sex/gender, while they basically said that having sex with someone of the same sex/gender implies being LGBTQ+. I suppose that conditional is not necessarily true, either, as it assumes that he sexually/romantically enjoyed it/desired it/etc., but it’s certainly a lot closer to the truth than what you clapped out.
is this shit for real? do you actually believe that what I typed is not true? my point was this: Mike is not more legitimately queer because he’s actually banged a dude. I’m sick and tired of bisexuals who have only ever had het relationships being written off. jumping down my throat because I supposedly mischaracterized what they said then immediately proceeding to rewrite and mischaracterize my statement…
Yeah, what Kamino Neko said: I agree with what you said, plasticwrap, but I think you misinterpreted what MTL was saying, and that seemed to me unfair. Basically, you called him out for something that he didn’t say. But I appreciate the point you made and I agree that it’s a point that’s often missed by non-queer people, and even queer people who aren’t on the ace spectrum. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that what you said was wrong, and I apologize if it came off that way. I was just trying to say that you might have interpreted the original post to mean something that MTL wasn’t trying to say.
Gonna go ahead and apologize and move on with my life
I’m genuinely sorry if my words hurt anyone or ruined your day or anything like that. Sorry, really.
Eh, conservatives would feel like they had a point anyway.
They think their views are correct (of course they do; if they thought their views were incorrect, they’d hold different views).
Also somehow I don’t think many conservatives read this comments section. Not quite sure what you’re getting at.
I kind of see what you mean, but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to put the blame on liberals for what conservatives do? At least, I wouldn’t say that’s a major factor. But I do think there are cases where it’s better to have a constructive dialogue than jumping down people’s throats over minor points or (as in this case) potential misunderstandings. Although there are plenty of cases where a more active approach is the better one. It depends on the situation and, frankly, how much of an asshole the other party has proven themselves to be.
And it’s very rare to see people being assholes on here, from my experience. I think this is a really good community for support. As someone with mild autism, I often worry about saying the wrong thing, and it makes me a bit anxious when I see someone being judged for something that isn’t exactly what they meant, because I could imagine myself in their shoes. For example, I’ve asked trans friends online about their experiences being trans, and I’m sure sometimes I’ve asked a stupid question–and I’ve definitely misgendered people who recently came out to me as trans just by force of habit–and if people blocked me every time that happened, I’d be an emotional wreck. People used to block me on twitter way more than they do now. There was one friend of a friend who tweeted some art of a nude male furry character, and she was always being self-deprecatory about her art. So I told her that I found him very sexy. I think at that point I got several cues to stop talking about it, but I can be idiotically stubborn sometimes, so I kept on it. Then she said it was her boyfriend’s fursona, and I apologized, but she told me I’d wasted all my chances and proceeded to block me.
ANYWAY… sorry for ranting; I just wanted to explain the personal aspect.
(It’s probably stupid to be so emotional about things like that, but it can be REALLY upsetting to me when someone I feel like I know decides to block me.)
I mean, yeah, I think so too. He’s probably ace (although I gather he gets turned on by S&M). But then I haven’t actually read very far in It’s Walky… mostly because the alien stuff isn’t my thing.
He’s certainly one of the A’s, anyway. I haven’t seen the slipshines, so… I might be lacking the information to say whether sex brings him pleasure or not.
He had a very twisted romantic relationship with Amber in Shortpacked (I think it was) so I don’t think he’s aromantic unless that word means something different than I think it does.
Mike’s definitely not straight, but he’s also evil.
Walky’s issues are more situational, but I’m pretty sure Dorothy’s aware enough to not have her two exes discuss the first ex’s romantic woes? I would hope?
I will, to the day I die, be firm in my belief that Mike is primarily spitesexual. He’ll have sex with anyone if he thinks he can spite someone else that way.
I don’t, but I’ve always had an issue with these kinds of jokes. It reminds me of the “haha I want to die :)” meme thing, and it rubs me the wrong way. Feels more like downplaying serious issues to me, when it feels carthatic to others.
Look on the bright side, Danny! You could be trying to come up with angst terms about your orientation while aro-ace.
(Trangst doesn’t look TOO awful. Or pangst. Polyamorangst? Not snappy, but gets the point across. Lesbiangst might be a bit long when gayngst works, but it does have some flow. Don’t think queer works, though.)
**erases a long, circular, navel gazing post without posting**
I will spare you all my long-winded thought process where I examined my own life to identify the meaning of what “polyamorangst” and “biangst” mean to me and how they’ve effected my life.
However, I will say that, for the most part, I would say that coming to the realizations about my own sexuality have usually led to net sums of joy and peace rather than angst. The rare exceptions have generally not been about being bi or pro-poly but about caring for those who aren’t.
Yeah, my orientation-related angst is usually reserved for the reasonably rare ‘oh we’re doing THIS shitty discourse again?’ variety. I just wanted to see how many portmanteaus looked vaguely like they could work.
I’m just gonna post what many were too reluctant to: just because others have it worse than you do doesn’t mean you can feel better about your situation.
I mean… Walky is cishet… and Sal… and I think Sarah (though she’s also kinda aromantic?)… and Joe, definitely Joe… and Amber and Amazi-girl… and Joyce… and I think Danny’s met Jacob? He seems cishet…
That’s eight cishetish.
For LGBT+ we have:
Dina, Becky, Ruth, Billie, Ethan, Mike, Carla, Marcie, Sierra, Grace, Mandy…
That’s 11.
Heh. Reminds me of my college peer group.
Yeah, I suspect I don’t have much in common with the rest of the fan base. I have to Google a lot of information I suspect I won’t use again, assuming I retain it.
As mentioned in other comments, both Walky and Joe have emitted faint signals of not being entirely het. Joyce’s signals are less faint. None is certain, but still. OTOH none is strong enough that Danny should go to them for advice.
Waste of time. The terms are still too fluid, and it takes forever to get an ISO standard changed. Besides, the last thing we need is yet another opportunity for external auditors to charge for monitoring compliance.
International Standards Organization. They set business and technology standards. The process of getting a multiplicity of corporations to agree on a common standard is arduous, convoluted, and lengthy.
He made his own social group. We went to the gender orientation thing on his own? He came with Joe and Dorothy. He’s arguably closer to Sal and Amber way before miss Sunshine wore people down. Ethan he became friends with for his own merits through Amber more than Joyce. We are watching the social network of a homeschooler who is learning friends outside her community for the first time and how they interconnect. These other kids had come to school with a larger network and might have more off screen that aren’t in wing or overlapping classes.
Gods, Danny is me when I realized I was bi. This is the funniest look into the mirror I’ve ever had. Though, thankfully I never tried my hand at “bangst”.
I feel like Danny is just using the bi thing as an excuse not to talk to Dorothy about his issues because he doesn’t feel like confiding in her. I don’t really think his current angst has much to do with the gender identities of his crush and ex. Maybe I am overlooking something?
While I haven’t gone through it myself, based on a couple of friends and gaming group members’ discussing their realizing/accepting their sexualities: for a while everything is going to seem like it’s about the bi thing.
Or just not wanting to talk to his straight ex partner about a potential gay non starter who is bffs and also exes with her Amazigirl bff/Amber who saved her. Not that Dorothy is loose lipped but that might make me say that this is both a bisexuality problem and just social network problem where Dorothy might be the worst candidate. Not that she’s loose lipped but from the fact that would add to the biangst worry. So, how about both?
I think she understands that but is compassionate enough to still want to help. If there was a more spoken boundary of what was considered making nice and what would be considered too familial, I think she’d follow it. They just never laid it out and it’s awkward.
I agree with Sere, last page in particular was telling, where she stopped to ask if it was okay to even ask. She knows they’re in a weird place, but she’s compassionate enough to want to make the effort.
I’m definitely feeling like Dorothy in the 3rd panel here. Also, “Whatever This Is, It’s Obviously Outside Of My Dumb Cishet Experience” would make a good DoA book title.
I think this is just their dynamic now. Dorothy still care and Danny is still burnt. Since breaking up with Dorothy he hasn’t been enthused when she shows up. Not when she asked to borrow shoes for Walky or she sent a reporter his way and I think he once told her the ex isn’t allowed to show up at his room to chase new potential partners away (Amber). He wasn’t sold when Dorothy first told him about Kinsey scale. Dorothy even teased Jacob and Joe about the bff drawings Danny had on his fridge (unsure if he knows about that). Their interactions haven’t been Great for awhile.
In a separate vein. She (Dorothy) is his ex who is bffs with another of his exes (Both Amazigirl and Amber) who is bffs And exes with the boy be wants to boink (Ethan) . Meanwhile both Dorothy and Danny’s first exes from college are dating one another (Amber and Walky) and to add to it all Walky is the twin of Sal who Danny just flirted with and Sal was the catalyst for Amber and him breaking up (over simplified but still)… Dorothy is in the best position to understand and also be no help due to entanglement. They specifically are a social mess.
I am actually with Danny there. When you break up with someone, they are perfectly within their rights to remove you from their life. Dorothy seems to completely miss this and is confused that Danny doesn’t like her anymore.
I don’t think she’s confused. I think she gets it, but still cares about him. She has great difficulty butting out (in general), but, she’s aware of this difficulty, and she knows that she needs to do so.
Best solution, in her mind, is to find a Danny-helper who isn’t her. Then he’s ok, and she can butt out successfully, without leaving him in the dirt.
OTOH, Danny’s come to her in the past and has never made it at all clear that she should leave him alone.
Even in this encounter, yesterday she asked if it would be all right for her to ask and told him he could have just said no.
I’m personally not empathetic to angst of any sort, but I can empathize that having an ex-girlfriend who “still cares” is kind of frustrating. That would be the case even without the Walky Phenomenon (Walky dating all of his exes). I don’t know if it would help with bi-angst specifically, but I think Carla would be a good lady to tell him to shake it off, instead of coddling him.
Plus I’m pretty certain that Carla would never date Walky.
Also calling it “dumb”. Nobody’s sexual/romantic experience is “dumb”; it’s either just relevant to the situation at hand, or it’s not. And even if it’s not, there’s no shame in trying to find some way to empathize with the person’s troubles.
Its like when white people joke about how awful white people are. It implicitly positions the speaker as one of the good ones, someone who gets it, and thus may grate on oppressed friends who feel said white person is giving themselves too much credit or removing themselves from the problem.
No, if you call yourself “normal,” that’s just basically saying everyone else is “abnormal”, which carries the connotation that they’re also wrong for being that way.
I actually [i]am[/i] just a dumb cishet; my (white, male) cishet experience has been treated as normal for my entire life which puts me in the unique(?) position of not knowing what it’s like to be looked down on and dehumanized for my inherent properties. If you had to pick the ‘type’ that would be naturally worst at understanding bangst, that would be me, right here.
I mean, yes, I get that there’s a history of the LGQs being dismissive of the Bs and Ts of the acronym, but at least they have some sort of framework of exlusion to empathize from. Me, I got nothin’.
There’s just no need to be self-deprecating(sp?) here. Omitting the word dumb, the sentence functions the exact same way without implying a queer experience is cooler or more interesting. To many it is, but a straight experience can be interesting cool and wild too, otherwise we wouldn’t have the plethora of fiction for it that we already do.
That feels overly reductive, and doesn’t seem especially useful for anything other than dismissing someone based on a trait they didn’t decide to have.
I’d think you would want white people to make fun of each other for generalised shitty behavior, because it helps spread the idea that the bullshit is something ridiculous to be mocked. Like, “If you’re white and act this way, here’s your big red shoes and nose, you absolute clown.”
I suppose you’re right, but the word cishet is objectionable to me in several ways. One, it’s poorly formatted. It should be cis-het so as to avoid pronunciation issues as well as to conform to (typical) compound word norms in English. Second, the word has been HIGHLY politicized to imply an oppressor class as well as attempt to marginalize or dampen non-LGBTQ+ voices. Third, whatever happened to words like “typical” and “straight”? Besides, the sentence would express the same thing without the words “dumb cishet.” It just feels like pandering. I suppose D is shooting for a career in politics, but jeez.
Just curious …. are ALL 18-year-olds these days that certain, open, and frank about their sexual/gender identity? It sure wasn’t like that when I was growing up!
For the US as a whole but YMMV: No! But for the areas where they are allowed to ask these questions all along in a supportive environment – yes. Talking as a Millennial about myself and also about the experiences of the kids in my life as Gen z. This view is held as someone who has lived in way too many states, visited them all, and have preteens/young teens in my life figuring this stuff out now because crushes are already happening. We personally have an inclusive/alt life style friend group so that makes these conversations more frank in our own house… also more frank about what areas it isn’t safe to be open to others with because bigots and hate crimes which is a really uncomfortable conversation to have with your kids. Have had parents say their kids can’t play with others because gay is contagious…last year. From my own figuring out: my social circles stunted me more than acceptance. Didn’t have a rainbow soup friend group Nor did my parents so all I had was het/lesbian options to compare And felt like I still didn’t know what I was. I knew what I liked and didn’t – just didn’t have a category for myself, so I learned a lot of words and labels that helped me understand myself better in college. It was there before, I just couldn’t be any more open about it because I didn’t know how.
But: More inclusive shows are doing the world for kids to put names to the little voice that is Already there. (Emphasis on “already” not at you but because I just left a chat room telling gay kids that their sexuality is only so they could feel edgy and they needed to live a little before it was valid)… some kids know younger or older, but for the most part the body horrors of puberty hit everyone with their social anxiety’s and questions regardless of orientation and struggling with those identity and label questions through middle school and high school leaves you KNOWING (as much as you can – have had people meet their orientation exceptions later in life) if you had access to tools and support. Current trickiest issue in preteen group:a kiddo questioning if they could be trans/gender fluid. Complications figuring it out are due to the local community’s adherence of stereotyped gender roles, not feeling right in body during puberty and depression. Don’t know which way they will shake, but I’m proud of them for asking questions and trying out labels. They are not open with friends because the contagious gay thing happened where they live.
Pretty sure Joyce is because she has a skewed idea of what a platonic female relationship normally looks like because of her bestie and her trying to make up for lack of sisters. Could be wrong but though Joyce was het in alternate universes and sexuality remains constant across works.
It certainly wasn’t for me either, but thanks to the internet (and depending on the quality of your local peer group) that has changed drastically. I will admit that my view is a bit biased thanks to a huge surge in LGBTQ* friends, but once you find that group that doesn’t make a huge deal about what you identify as conversations like this become far more common.
Give people the language to speak clearly/plainly/directly about something and it changes the discourse drastically.
Considering the 20 people on the Cast page who are roughly in their age group (not counting Leslie), I’d say 10 are pretty much straight (from the evidence shown so far) and 10 are not. So it’s not “anybody”, but it is a pretty large portion!
I seem to remember a post from Willis somewhere – can’t remember if it was here or tumblr or twitter – where he acknowledged that bringing in most of Squadron 48 from the Walkyverse had an effect on the proportion of bi characters in DoA. (Mandy, Marcie, Grace, and Sierra, but not Guns. No Guns ever!)
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“Like, it feels the chances that any given ‘straight’ character will get incrementally closer to identifying as pansexual as time goes on are ten billion percent”
It’s like this campus gives off a field… My kind of college.
“I mean, I don’t wanna say we’re ticking off a diversity checklist because that sounds negative, but frankly we really kind of are…”
Is it “ticking off a … checklist” if the friends you seek out/have for any combination of reasons Person A may be friends with Person B just ending turning out (…) way?
It would be if you sought those friends out for (…) reason but that’s not what’s happening here.
I mean from my experience queer folks seem to gravitate towards each other even before we come out. I’m really not sure why, though. Alternatively, existing around folks coming out could make people more likely to explore their own gender and sexuality by normalizing and humanizing it? But given statistics I doubt that’s the only factor.
Isn’t that the case with most close knit communities? That you somehow drift towards them even before you yourself know or announce that you are part of their subculture? I don’t have any experience with the queer folks, but us nerdgeeks are not only drawn to each other by graviation (though there is a fair amount of mass in the comminity) but simply because even before we learn what roleplaying games are and that webcomics are a thing, we’re different from the other kids.
My Theory is that people who are a certain way gravitate toward people who do not disapprove of their “thing”. That goes for gay, bi, lesbian, Philosophers, Programmers and even Warhammer fans. You want to be around people who don’t disapprove of you. Whether this is conscious or unconscious can very based on person. For me, it’s very conscious. In college especially, where who you interact with is mostly up to you, this effect would be very pronounced.
That’s… that’s actually a good thing, right?
What a cast of characters, this group!
Especially Danny…with his angst.
His “Dangst” if you will.
Daaaaaangst
you two made me smile ty I needed that
Yes, let’s grab… Joyce. Or Walky. Or Amber.
…Joe?
I was going to comment about how Amber’s totally not straight, then realized she doesn’t seem to give any sort of shits revolving around women, she just likes dudes going at each other.
fuhoshis are not (necessarily) LGBT and can be similarly problematic to lesbian porn devotees.
the original meaning of the word implies ZERO alliance to gay men irl, literally a rotten sexual appetite.
…fujoshi…
autocorrect, thanks
Joe famously had the “Boners- dig it” shirt and wasn’t able to reply to Danny about whether it was about his own apprecciation of them
I feel like “dig it” could easily be a command/request on that shirt, tbh…
I’m with Dina, that shirt is about paleontology.
lol good one
Ruth might not be a bad choice here, honestly.
ah yes, the gaygks
She’s not wrong
Bi Danny is best Danny, and I want maximum bisexual angst
increase the bangst
*laughs*. . . She’s not wrong. Though the worst she could do is call over Mike I think.
There are exceedingly few bisexual characters whose first instinct wouldn’t be to antagonize or annoy Danny further.
please elaborate. I’ve met so painfully few openly bisexual people irl
I think he means in the comic. Have you seen their peer group?
Like… There’s Dina… And, well, um… Dina. (I know she’s pan, but she’s the best we got.)
Hmm…Mike…that’s a nope. Billie…she’s got her own problems. Ruth, he barely knows, and, again…her own problems. He doesn’t know the other girls on the floor, so far as we know, but I’m sure Sierra would be happy to talk with him, even so.
Need that second panel as a reaction image, for real
I mean your peer group has people like Walky and Mike so…
Walky will totally try dudes for grades or pizza.
Also Mike actually had sex with a man.
Men. Eric and Ethan, and that’s just the confirmed hookups we’ve seen on-panel.
He also had sex with your mom.
For a nickel.
HAVING 👏 SEX 👏 WITH 👏 PERSONS 👏 OF 👏 THE 👏 SAME 👏 SEX 👏 OR 👏 GENDER 👏IS 👏 NOT👏 APREREQUISITE 👏 FOR 👏 BEING 👏 L👏G👏B👏Q👏+
According to the Walkypedia, Mike’s sexual orientation is actually listed as “not heterosexual”, though it’s otherwise undefined. I am woefully unqualified to hazard a further guess, but I know that he can be attracted to more than just women.
…But that’s not what MatthewTheLucky actually said?
They said that Mike had sex with Ethan, and that implies that he’s not cishet. That’s like the converse of what you’re saying: ie, you said being LGBTQ+ doesn’t imply having sex with someone of the same sex/gender, while they basically said that having sex with someone of the same sex/gender implies being LGBTQ+. I suppose that conditional is not necessarily true, either, as it assumes that he sexually/romantically enjoyed it/desired it/etc., but it’s certainly a lot closer to the truth than what you clapped out.
is this shit for real? do you actually believe that what I typed is not true? my point was this: Mike is not more legitimately queer because he’s actually banged a dude. I’m sick and tired of bisexuals who have only ever had het relationships being written off. jumping down my throat because I supposedly mischaracterized what they said then immediately proceeding to rewrite and mischaracterize my statement…
That is, again, not what anyone said.
‘He banged a dude’ is not being used to mean he’s ‘more legitimately LGBT’, it’s being used to say ‘there is on panel evidence of his being queer’.
Including Ethan and Amber discussing him not being straight. Which suggests he’s either demonstrated or discussed it openly before.
Yeah, what Kamino Neko said: I agree with what you said, plasticwrap, but I think you misinterpreted what MTL was saying, and that seemed to me unfair. Basically, you called him out for something that he didn’t say. But I appreciate the point you made and I agree that it’s a point that’s often missed by non-queer people, and even queer people who aren’t on the ace spectrum. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that what you said was wrong, and I apologize if it came off that way. I was just trying to say that you might have interpreted the original post to mean something that MTL wasn’t trying to say.
I’m also going to apologize, plasticwrap, because I misread your comment as “banging a guy does not make Mike non-het”.
And snow mouse, people on the ace spectrum can miss that point too. As an example: me, being my usual dumbass self.
Gonna go ahead and apologize and move on with my life
I’m genuinely sorry if my words hurt anyone or ruined your day or anything like that. Sorry, really.
See, this kind of reactionary shit is why conservatives feel like they have a point.
Eh, conservatives would feel like they had a point anyway.
They think their views are correct (of course they do; if they thought their views were incorrect, they’d hold different views).
Also somehow I don’t think many conservatives read this comments section. Not quite sure what you’re getting at.
Me: *memes a little too hard*
You: see it’s radical leftists like you that fuel MAGA bros and their libtards memes
Ow.
“memes too hard” deserves to be a meme in itself.
I kind of see what you mean, but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to put the blame on liberals for what conservatives do? At least, I wouldn’t say that’s a major factor. But I do think there are cases where it’s better to have a constructive dialogue than jumping down people’s throats over minor points or (as in this case) potential misunderstandings. Although there are plenty of cases where a more active approach is the better one. It depends on the situation and, frankly, how much of an asshole the other party has proven themselves to be.
And it’s very rare to see people being assholes on here, from my experience. I think this is a really good community for support. As someone with mild autism, I often worry about saying the wrong thing, and it makes me a bit anxious when I see someone being judged for something that isn’t exactly what they meant, because I could imagine myself in their shoes. For example, I’ve asked trans friends online about their experiences being trans, and I’m sure sometimes I’ve asked a stupid question–and I’ve definitely misgendered people who recently came out to me as trans just by force of habit–and if people blocked me every time that happened, I’d be an emotional wreck. People used to block me on twitter way more than they do now. There was one friend of a friend who tweeted some art of a nude male furry character, and she was always being self-deprecatory about her art. So I told her that I found him very sexy. I think at that point I got several cues to stop talking about it, but I can be idiotically stubborn sometimes, so I kept on it. Then she said it was her boyfriend’s fursona, and I apologized, but she told me I’d wasted all my chances and proceeded to block me.
ANYWAY… sorry for ranting; I just wanted to explain the personal aspect.
(It’s probably stupid to be so emotional about things like that, but it can be REALLY upsetting to me when someone I feel like I know decides to block me.)
But it certainly qualifies as supporting evidence. ;p
Mike is bi, if also a very bad person to take advice from, so he technically counts.
I’d always assumed* that Mike’s sexuality was “Whatever will annoy you most.”
*Yes, I know, don’t assume sexualities, but he’s not actually an IRL person so w/e
I mean, yeah, I think so too. He’s probably ace (although I gather he gets turned on by S&M). But then I haven’t actually read very far in It’s Walky… mostly because the alien stuff isn’t my thing.
I always thought he was bisexual aromantic, honestly.
He’s certainly one of the A’s, anyway. I haven’t seen the slipshines, so… I might be lacking the information to say whether sex brings him pleasure or not.
(actually, I should say he’s AT LEAST one of the A’s–he’s definitely aromantic, whether or not he’s asexual.)
He had a very twisted romantic relationship with Amber in Shortpacked (I think it was) so I don’t think he’s aromantic unless that word means something different than I think it does.
It’s not so much **assuming** his gender, since he’s all but outright said he’s motivated almost entirely by spite and the desire to troll.
Mike’s definitely not straight, but he’s also evil.
Walky’s issues are more situational, but I’m pretty sure Dorothy’s aware enough to not have her two exes discuss the first ex’s romantic woes? I would hope?
I will, to the day I die, be firm in my belief that Mike is primarily spitesexual. He’ll have sex with anyone if he thinks he can spite someone else that way.
Danny, where is your ukelele, if anytime there was to be playing the blues, it is now. That will attract attention, right?
He put it down so the healing can begin.
Eh, he’ll be able to get bi without wordplay.
I LOVE calling minor inconveniences biphobia
Gayce but same. Never gets old!
Same, but with autistic ableism.
I don’t, but I’ve always had an issue with these kinds of jokes. It reminds me of the “haha I want to die :)” meme thing, and it rubs me the wrong way. Feels more like downplaying serious issues to me, when it feels carthatic to others.
Bi disquiet.. dis-bi-et?
Existential PAN-ic?
Not sure whether to give cookies or send to the punalty box…
Maybe some bi-scotti.
Caught off guard again. Dang, made me laugh. You’d think I’d be more wary, bi- now.
Poor Danny. His gay crush is busy playing the field, and his straight dates keep falling for a guy who wears pajama jeans!
Tv Tropes: Bi the Way
Look on the bright side, Danny! You could be trying to come up with angst terms about your orientation while aro-ace.
(Trangst doesn’t look TOO awful. Or pangst. Polyamorangst? Not snappy, but gets the point across. Lesbiangst might be a bit long when gayngst works, but it does have some flow. Don’t think queer works, though.)
**erases a long, circular, navel gazing post without posting**
I will spare you all my long-winded thought process where I examined my own life to identify the meaning of what “polyamorangst” and “biangst” mean to me and how they’ve effected my life.
However, I will say that, for the most part, I would say that coming to the realizations about my own sexuality have usually led to net sums of joy and peace rather than angst. The rare exceptions have generally not been about being bi or pro-poly but about caring for those who aren’t.
/contemplative
Yeah, my orientation-related angst is usually reserved for the reasonably rare ‘oh we’re doing THIS shitty discourse again?’ variety. I just wanted to see how many portmanteaus looked vaguely like they could work.
Queerngst? Somehow that just seems to rhyme with “curdled meat”.
Acengst.
I’m just gonna post what many were too reluctant to: just because others have it worse than you do doesn’t mean you can feel better about your situation.
Someone has been reading TV Tropes I see.
I mean… Walky is cishet… and Sal… and I think Sarah (though she’s also kinda aromantic?)… and Joe, definitely Joe… and Amber and Amazi-girl… and Joyce… and I think Danny’s met Jacob? He seems cishet…
That’s eight cishetish.
For LGBT+ we have:
Dina, Becky, Ruth, Billie, Ethan, Mike, Carla, Marcie, Sierra, Grace, Mandy…
That’s 11.
Heh. Reminds me of my college peer group.
I had one of those too. Make one queer friend, suddenly I had ALL the queer friends.
“They’re moving in herds. They do move in herds.”
Am I the only one who had to Google ‘cishet’?
Probably, among this readership
Yeah, I suspect I don’t have much in common with the rest of the fan base. I have to Google a lot of information I suspect I won’t use again, assuming I retain it.
That doesn’t keep me from enjoying the comic.
Man I wish I had to google that.
As mentioned in other comments, both Walky and Joe have emitted faint signals of not being entirely het. Joyce’s signals are less faint. None is certain, but still. OTOH none is strong enough that Danny should go to them for advice.
If you check out his smartphone, you’ll see that it uses bidirectional text.
A propos of nothing, I just want to say that I like how Dorothy is drawn here.
He’s just having a hard time g-g-g-getting bi
Pete Gardner playing a saxophone solves a lot more problems than one might think.
It doesn’t take an intellectual to know that he’s bisexual.
Get Dina, she’s interested in multiple genders and knows the value of a good hat.
You joke, but she did help Ethan through his “what if people find out I’m gay and forget I’m a huge nerd” stuff.
Of course, that was never a problem. Ethan could be an actual extraterrestrial and STILL nobody would forget he’s a huge nerd.
*looks at gravatar* Dina helps again!
Danny will get bi with a little help from his friends.
God will get you for that joke.
But only if a lesbian asks Them to.
Don’t be Maude-lin.
They’ll have to catch me first! *meep meep*
I’ll hold them off, because that was hilarious.
Warning: The Dorothy unit has become self-aware. Fourth-wall-breaking quips may be imminent.
Wait, she’s a robot? I thought those were over in Questionable Content.
Diesel Sweeties, too
We really need an ISO standard defining all these terms.
Waste of time. The terms are still too fluid, and it takes forever to get an ISO standard changed. Besides, the last thing we need is yet another opportunity for external auditors to charge for monitoring compliance.
ISO?
International Standards Organization. They set business and technology standards. The process of getting a multiplicity of corporations to agree on a common standard is arduous, convoluted, and lengthy.
Huh… Danny is really at the corner of the social group of Joyce friends… That’s sad.
Also, there are some bi words Danny could use: bifurious, bi-vision, bi-noculars, bi-sionary, bi-ologist, bicycle, bi-ncent van gogh, bi-bliophile…
bipedal, bicentennial, binational
oh, let bigones be bigones
I’m not bi-ing any of those.
He made his own social group. We went to the gender orientation thing on his own? He came with Joe and Dorothy. He’s arguably closer to Sal and Amber way before miss Sunshine wore people down. Ethan he became friends with for his own merits through Amber more than Joyce. We are watching the social network of a homeschooler who is learning friends outside her community for the first time and how they interconnect. These other kids had come to school with a larger network and might have more off screen that aren’t in wing or overlapping classes.
Gods, Danny is me when I realized I was bi. This is the funniest look into the mirror I’ve ever had. Though, thankfully I never tried my hand at “bangst”.
Bangst sounds like when you can only try your hand…
Should the flavor text be ‘By the by’ or ‘By the Bi’?
But definitely not By the bi, unless Willis has something he wants to reveal to everybody.
Bi the bi.
I feel like Danny is just using the bi thing as an excuse not to talk to Dorothy about his issues because he doesn’t feel like confiding in her. I don’t really think his current angst has much to do with the gender identities of his crush and ex. Maybe I am overlooking something?
While I haven’t gone through it myself, based on a couple of friends and gaming group members’ discussing their realizing/accepting their sexualities: for a while everything is going to seem like it’s about the bi thing.
Or just not wanting to talk to his straight ex partner about a potential gay non starter who is bffs and also exes with her Amazigirl bff/Amber who saved her. Not that Dorothy is loose lipped but that might make me say that this is both a bisexuality problem and just social network problem where Dorothy might be the worst candidate. Not that she’s loose lipped but from the fact that would add to the biangst worry. So, how about both?
I think Dorothy is acting like she and Danny are still friends, which he doesn’t consider them to be. She’s just not really parsing that.
I think she understands that but is compassionate enough to still want to help. If there was a more spoken boundary of what was considered making nice and what would be considered too familial, I think she’d follow it. They just never laid it out and it’s awkward.
I agree with Sere, last page in particular was telling, where she stopped to ask if it was okay to even ask. She knows they’re in a weird place, but she’s compassionate enough to want to make the effort.
Bi-angst.
I’m definitely feeling like Dorothy in the 3rd panel here. Also, “Whatever This Is, It’s Obviously Outside Of My Dumb Cishet Experience” would make a good DoA book title.
Heh, nice passive-aggressive back and forth. They do remind me that they have been a couple for a long time.
Firstly, I’m glad Dorothy noticed.
Secondly, is Willis lampooning the ‘people outside this demographic have no input’ argument or is he serious?
I think this is just their dynamic now. Dorothy still care and Danny is still burnt. Since breaking up with Dorothy he hasn’t been enthused when she shows up. Not when she asked to borrow shoes for Walky or she sent a reporter his way and I think he once told her the ex isn’t allowed to show up at his room to chase new potential partners away (Amber). He wasn’t sold when Dorothy first told him about Kinsey scale. Dorothy even teased Jacob and Joe about the bff drawings Danny had on his fridge (unsure if he knows about that). Their interactions haven’t been Great for awhile.
In a separate vein. She (Dorothy) is his ex who is bffs with another of his exes (Both Amazigirl and Amber) who is bffs And exes with the boy be wants to boink (Ethan) . Meanwhile both Dorothy and Danny’s first exes from college are dating one another (Amber and Walky) and to add to it all Walky is the twin of Sal who Danny just flirted with and Sal was the catalyst for Amber and him breaking up (over simplified but still)… Dorothy is in the best position to understand and also be no help due to entanglement. They specifically are a social mess.
I am actually with Danny there. When you break up with someone, they are perfectly within their rights to remove you from their life. Dorothy seems to completely miss this and is confused that Danny doesn’t like her anymore.
I don’t think she’s confused. I think she gets it, but still cares about him. She has great difficulty butting out (in general), but, she’s aware of this difficulty, and she knows that she needs to do so.
Best solution, in her mind, is to find a Danny-helper who isn’t her. Then he’s ok, and she can butt out successfully, without leaving him in the dirt.
OTOH, Danny’s come to her in the past and has never made it at all clear that she should leave him alone.
Even in this encounter, yesterday she asked if it would be all right for her to ask and told him he could have just said no.
There are definitely scenarios where people outside a demographic have no input.
YMMV if this is one of them.
‘Bang’ in Dutch or Afrikaans means ‘afraid’, ‘anxious’.
Danny is spot on without realizing it.
Same for German, but I’m not sure if it sounds like a portmanteau or just gibberish at that point.
I approve the hovertext. Nicely done!
Bi the Power of Grayskull!
You know, I kinda like the scruffier look Dorothy’s got going on.
Not that Walky has noticed or anything *cries*
Just shout “WHERE ARE MY BISEXUALS AT” and we shall come running
in a BI-line
I’m personally not empathetic to angst of any sort, but I can empathize that having an ex-girlfriend who “still cares” is kind of frustrating. That would be the case even without the Walky Phenomenon (Walky dating all of his exes). I don’t know if it would help with bi-angst specifically, but I think Carla would be a good lady to tell him to shake it off, instead of coddling him.
Plus I’m pretty certain that Carla would never date Walky.
I LOOOOOVE D for actually trying to help instead of noping out but using the word “cishet” as a cishet? Just icky
Also calling it “dumb”. Nobody’s sexual/romantic experience is “dumb”; it’s either just relevant to the situation at hand, or it’s not. And even if it’s not, there’s no shame in trying to find some way to empathize with the person’s troubles.
I think Dotty is at the point where she’s being flippant but still supportive. I HOPE she’s being flippant…
Why can’t cishets use the word cishet?
Its like when white people joke about how awful white people are. It implicitly positions the speaker as one of the good ones, someone who gets it, and thus may grate on oppressed friends who feel said white person is giving themselves too much credit or removing themselves from the problem.
I’m confused. By the definition, I qualify as a cishet. So if not by that term, how should I describe myself? “Normal”?
That was beautifully put. Thanks.
No, if you call yourself “normal,” that’s just basically saying everyone else is “abnormal”, which carries the connotation that they’re also wrong for being that way.
I think that might be the point bebert is trying to make.
Agreed. And it’s a point that needs making.
Describing yourself as cishet is fine, it’s what Dorothy’s doing here–“oh, I’m just a dumb cishet, I wouldn’t get it” that grates. At least for me.
I actually [i]am[/i] just a dumb cishet; my (white, male) cishet experience has been treated as normal for my entire life which puts me in the unique(?) position of not knowing what it’s like to be looked down on and dehumanized for my inherent properties. If you had to pick the ‘type’ that would be naturally worst at understanding bangst, that would be me, right here.
I mean, yes, I get that there’s a history of the LGQs being dismissive of the Bs and Ts of the acronym, but at least they have some sort of framework of exlusion to empathize from. Me, I got nothin’.
There’s just no need to be self-deprecating(sp?) here. Omitting the word dumb, the sentence functions the exact same way without implying a queer experience is cooler or more interesting. To many it is, but a straight experience can be interesting cool and wild too, otherwise we wouldn’t have the plethora of fiction for it that we already do.
That feels overly reductive, and doesn’t seem especially useful for anything other than dismissing someone based on a trait they didn’t decide to have.
I’d think you would want white people to make fun of each other for generalised shitty behavior, because it helps spread the idea that the bullshit is something ridiculous to be mocked. Like, “If you’re white and act this way, here’s your big red shoes and nose, you absolute clown.”
Using a phrase that defines your own identity is not icky.
I suppose you’re right, but the word cishet is objectionable to me in several ways. One, it’s poorly formatted. It should be cis-het so as to avoid pronunciation issues as well as to conform to (typical) compound word norms in English. Second, the word has been HIGHLY politicized to imply an oppressor class as well as attempt to marginalize or dampen non-LGBTQ+ voices. Third, whatever happened to words like “typical” and “straight”? Besides, the sentence would express the same thing without the words “dumb cishet.” It just feels like pandering. I suppose D is shooting for a career in politics, but jeez.
Just curious …. are ALL 18-year-olds these days that certain, open, and frank about their sexual/gender identity? It sure wasn’t like that when I was growing up!
For the US as a whole but YMMV: No! But for the areas where they are allowed to ask these questions all along in a supportive environment – yes. Talking as a Millennial about myself and also about the experiences of the kids in my life as Gen z. This view is held as someone who has lived in way too many states, visited them all, and have preteens/young teens in my life figuring this stuff out now because crushes are already happening. We personally have an inclusive/alt life style friend group so that makes these conversations more frank in our own house… also more frank about what areas it isn’t safe to be open to others with because bigots and hate crimes which is a really uncomfortable conversation to have with your kids. Have had parents say their kids can’t play with others because gay is contagious…last year. From my own figuring out: my social circles stunted me more than acceptance. Didn’t have a rainbow soup friend group Nor did my parents so all I had was het/lesbian options to compare And felt like I still didn’t know what I was. I knew what I liked and didn’t – just didn’t have a category for myself, so I learned a lot of words and labels that helped me understand myself better in college. It was there before, I just couldn’t be any more open about it because I didn’t know how.
But: More inclusive shows are doing the world for kids to put names to the little voice that is Already there. (Emphasis on “already” not at you but because I just left a chat room telling gay kids that their sexuality is only so they could feel edgy and they needed to live a little before it was valid)… some kids know younger or older, but for the most part the body horrors of puberty hit everyone with their social anxiety’s and questions regardless of orientation and struggling with those identity and label questions through middle school and high school leaves you KNOWING (as much as you can – have had people meet their orientation exceptions later in life) if you had access to tools and support. Current trickiest issue in preteen group:a kiddo questioning if they could be trans/gender fluid. Complications figuring it out are due to the local community’s adherence of stereotyped gender roles, not feeling right in body during puberty and depression. Don’t know which way they will shake, but I’m proud of them for asking questions and trying out labels. They are not open with friends because the contagious gay thing happened where they live.
Wow – was trying to paint a two generation picture and it got out of hand. Sorry for the word vomit!
Depends on the 18YO. Some yes, some no.
Think like Joyce and Walky. Both give off bi vibes like whoa, both steadfastly convinced they’re cishet.
And there are some like kid me who know but stay closeted because circumstances.
Pretty sure Joyce is because she has a skewed idea of what a platonic female relationship normally looks like because of her bestie and her trying to make up for lack of sisters. Could be wrong but though Joyce was het in alternate universes and sexuality remains constant across works.
It certainly wasn’t for me either, but thanks to the internet (and depending on the quality of your local peer group) that has changed drastically. I will admit that my view is a bit biased thanks to a huge surge in LGBTQ* friends, but once you find that group that doesn’t make a huge deal about what you identify as conversations like this become far more common.
Give people the language to speak clearly/plainly/directly about something and it changes the discourse drastically.
Dorothy’s minor must be interior decorating; she hung that lampshade perfectly.
I thought “bangst” was when you had sex with an emo?
Danny, you were JUST with Sal. She could’ve introduced you to Marcie. Shit, at this point in her arc, even MALAYA might be of help.
It’s likely that Sal and her best friend aren’t really people Danny wants to unload whatever this is on.
Considering the 20 people on the Cast page who are roughly in their age group (not counting Leslie), I’d say 10 are pretty much straight (from the evidence shown so far) and 10 are not. So it’s not “anybody”, but it is a pretty large portion!
I seem to remember a post from Willis somewhere – can’t remember if it was here or tumblr or twitter – where he acknowledged that bringing in most of Squadron 48 from the Walkyverse had an effect on the proportion of bi characters in DoA. (Mandy, Marcie, Grace, and Sierra, but not Guns. No Guns ever!)
Yep. And Mandy, Grace, and Sierra aren’t even on the Cast page.
If we count Mary, Raidah, Jason, and Rachel with the cast page, we have 25 major characters.
About 11 are some form of LGBT+. So, not literally everyone but Dorothy, but a good chunk of ’em, yeah.
Danny…….you’re acting quite punchable right now.