There’s only one company left that still makes them, and they’re in Vietnam. And the first search result for the company name is a court filing from 1997 that involved a house fire that claimed three lives.
I was 99% sure Amber was going to reject Sal’s apology for one reason or another; I was just dreading to see how violent that rejection was going to be. This is so very much better.
And then we’re gonna go on even MORE adventures after that, Sal. And you’re gonna keep your MOUTH SHUT about it, Sal…
..because the world is full of idiots that don’t understand what’s important. And they’ll TEAR us apart, Sal!!
But if you stick with me, I’m gonna accomplish great things, Sal, and you’re gonna be part of ’em.
And together we’re gonna run around, Sal, we’re gonna… do all kinds of wonderful things, Sal. Just you and me, Sal. The outside world is our enemy, Sal.. we’re the only…. friends we’ve got, Sal! It’s just Amber and Sal. Amber and Sal and their adventures, Sal.. AMBER AND SAL FOREVER AND FOREVER A HUNDRED YEARS Amber and Sal.. some…things.. Me and Amber and Sal runnin’ around and… Amber and Sal time… a- all day long forever.. all a – a hundred days Amber and Sal! forever a hundred times…. OVER and over Amber and Sal… adventures dot com.. W W W dot at Amber and Sal dot com w..w..w…Amber and Sal adventures.. ah- hundred years….. every minute Amber and Sal dot com…. w w w a hundred times… Amber and Sal dot com…….”
I mean, it’s not like Willis hasn’t foreshadowed that, what with Sal getting at least one invite to join and him having drawn two different Sal roller derby models.
On the other hand, that …might not be the BEST outlet in the world. I loved martial arts, but sometimes the line got blurred on where you were doing your best at the sport and where you were taking your aggression out on others, just in a more ‘appropriate’ setting. I’m told roller derby gets pretty vicious, which concerns me.
On the other hand, it has to be better than bottling it or lashing out in poorly planned ways, so.
Yeah, can’t agree more. Roller derby’s fun but much like beating up thugs it’s only a band-aid to the long term issues, especially for Amber. Still should be entertaining to see if it happens.
I am talking myself around to the belief that the feasible thing that would best resolve the real issues for Sal and Amber (or at least, Amber’s external issues) would be to inflict thorough, public humiliations on Linda and Blaine.
Blaine in jail (or murdered because the mob’s had enough) and Linda’s shittiness known to the wider public as ‘it’s not just Sal being A Bad Girl, Linda is a terrible mother’ would be excellent.
I’m not sure it would be as satisfying to them as it would be to us (parental abuse emotions are Complicated,) but some justice regarding them would still be good.
I’ve seen girls break legs by falling over with no one touching them. Ive been knocked around and broke a teammates hand. (Still sour that wasn’t called as a high block)
What I’m saying is there’re rules. You put a bongo on the floor and get floored and when the game is over you high five and plan food.
My point is even when there are rules, you can very easily blur the line between playing aggressively and taking your aggression out on someone else because the game is aggressive and you probably won’t get in too much trouble for it.
You can, but when everyone around you is also a highly-aggressive beatstick in need of release there needs to be some kind of social dysfunction involved for people not to care that you’re being more violent and causing more injuries than other people.
It’s less that it can’t happen and more that that is specifically something people pay attention to in contact sports.
That’s not my experience with contact sports. My experience is things look okay at the moment and then later you wonder ‘Was I actually just participating in a contact sport or was I feeling aggressive and just knocking them around because I can?’
I do some armed contact sports (not with real weapons) – I usually just call it spear fencing, but it’s wider than that, with a fairly wide range of weapons. It’s also often pretty easy to tell when someone is fighting aggressively in the sense of being effective and going into the sport, as opposed to someone fighting aggressively because they’re currently angry and it’s coming out.
Being on the receiving end of that second one can potentially be a bit scary; I’ve been fortunate enough that it’s only happened to me when I was up against people I was a lot better than and who I could handle even with them throwing shot after shot that was really borderline on safety rules, but had that been someone better than me at the sport (or had someone worse than the person I was fighting been in my place)? That wouldn’t have been pretty.
If you go to the URL it’s still there, but it may just be abandoned in place.
Tumblr’s trusting a flawed algorithm to delete everything it thinks is adult content soon; a lot of innocent users are getting caught in the crossfire, and still more are jumping ship in solidarity.
There are plenty of ways in martial arts to take out aggression without it being directed at others. Doing paddle kicks helped me, but the real one was kicking the shit out of heavy bags.
True, it may not be the best outlet. But it’s certainly a step in the right direction. It’s a way to channel a portion of that aggression in a way that poses way less danger to herself and forces Amber to socialize with teammates in the real world outside of the isolation of the screen.
Amber still needs professional help though. Her anxiety,guilt, PTSD, and DID won’t just go away from a better environment.
There will be drama yet. Marcie and Malaya are still a problem for Sal, Amber still has whenever Dorothy finds out she’s with Walky, and both of them are going to have to deal with whenever Walky will find out about the fight as well as Amber having stabbed Sal. That’s going to be plenty dramatic, I imagine.
I don’t know… Amber’s facial expression doesn’t exactly ring of sincerity to me. :/ While I do think that Amber is partially regrets what she did, I don’t think she’s truly sorry in the sense that she can forgive Sal for putting her in that situation, or to forgive herself for what she did.
Willis has spent the last several days showing us, through Sal’s realization, how Amber’s not only sorry for stabbing Sal: her regret has shaped her behaviour ever since the incident. It’s precisely BECAUSE she’s so terribly sorry that she can’t forgive herself. Her facial expression? She’s hurt and in tears and scared, I don’t know how that reads as insincere to you. This is a very difficult moment for her.
And finally one can be sorry for doing something wrong even if it was as a reaction to being wronged, and being sorry doesn’t mean one is less angry or has forgiven the original wrongdoer. She can and is sorry in spite of not being over Sal having attacked.
Finally, Sal didn’t put Amber in that situation. Blaine did. Sal was restrained when Amber attacked.
Perhaps I’m reading her expression in panel 4 wrong then. To me, it looks like the face of all the angry bullies (not saying that Amber is one, of course) in my early life who were made to apologize to me. A sort of scowly, “You want an apology? HERE!” sort of face, that you know they don’t really mean. But, that’s on me.
Or Amber could have made any effort whatsoever to bring about this reconciliation instead of having it handed to her without having to do any of the emotional work of actually earning that forgiveness through words or actions.
You’re completely missing the point. It’s too late now Willis has already peddled the bullshit narrative where a marginalized person is expected to forgive someone who harmed them even if that person has done nothing to deserve forgiveness no amount of Amber earning it after the fact is gonna change that that’s a shitty expectation placed on marginalized people in our society and he just sorta embraced it with total sincerity.
I agree with you, but I think it is very in character for sal after hearing about Amber’s life to try to make amends. I think this was too fast. Maybe Sal should have talked to Ethan or something instead, and Ethan coaxed Amber into the apology
roller derby! Or what ever that is with skatting and girls beating the crap out of each other to get ahead!!! Also I can’t really make out amber’s face in panel four, what face is she making? I can’t even be sure where here eye is.
I can’t tell if Amber’s making eye contact with Sal or staring a hole in the floor in the fourth panel. It kind of looks like both irises are there, but the upper one is probably her glasses frame or something.
Well that’s a waste of a perfectly good rocket. They’d probably screw up any potential data collection that could be obtained from launching it into the sun, anyway.
A pit that’s too deep to climb out of, that no one’s using, should be sufficient.
They’re fictional characters. If they were real people sure but they’re not this entire situation is dictated by a writer. Sal isn’t a real person who decided to forgive someone who wronged her even though they did nothing to make amends she’s a fictional character written by a white dude that decided that’s what he wanted her to do.
Sal forgiving Amber is just as much about her own mental health then is Amber’s. Often you forgive someone because the weight of hating them isn’t worth it.
Sal realized that her actions traumatized Amber and helped create AG. She realized that the stalking and harassment never had anything to do with her race. But because Amber had personally witnessed her try and commit armed robbery and hold a knife to Ethan’s throat.
Your right that Sal is a fictional character. Because most humans are vindictive bastards whose forgiveness can only be bought with a checkbook. Forgiving someone because they did something for you isn’t actually forgiveness it’s just settling the score.
Genuine remorse is the most important thing. Sal was genuinely sorry for what she did so Ethan forgave her. Despite the fact Sal hadn’t done anything to earn it. Ethan just forgave her he didn’t ask for anything I return. Sal had to beg him for something she could do to make it up to him. Ethan came up with something not because he needed it but because Sal needed it.
The reason Sal said “I got that” to Ambers apology is because she knows from the fight Amber is filled with self-loathing other the incident from years ago.
Now if Sal was allowed to make amends AFTER being for given the least you can do is do is give Amber the same Courtesy.
“Sal forgiving Amber is just as much about her own mental health then is Amber’s. Often you forgive someone because the weight of hating them isn’t worth it.”
Once again, Sal is a fictional character. She’s not the one making that choice, Willis is. And frankly, hate doesn’t always have the weight people ascribe to it. For me anyways, it’s pretty easy to move along with my day and only be like ‘Oh, yeah, fuck that person’ when they come up.
“Sal realized that her actions traumatized Amber and helped create AG. She realized that the stalking and harassment never had anything to do with her race. But because Amber had personally witnessed her try and commit armed robbery and hold a knife to Ethan’s throat.”
Intent isn’t impact. AG having personal reasons to dislike Sal doesn’t take away from her being (self proclaimed) law enforcement selectively targeting a black girl to harass. That contributes to white supremacy whether she likes it or not. That’s one of the things she realized at the rally.
“Your right that Sal is a fictional character. Because most humans are vindictive bastards whose forgiveness can only be bought with a checkbook. Forgiving someone because they did something for you isn’t actually forgiveness it’s just settling the score.”
Yeah, nah. People are allowed to want a reason to forgive someone, especially if they don’t know the person well or it was a big deal. That came up this storyline too – with Marcie. Marcie’s not willing to forgive Sal at her word, she wants actual proof Sal’s working on her concerns because it’s a repeat problem with tangible consequences for Marcie.
“Genuine remorse is the most important thing. Sal was genuinely sorry for what she did so Ethan forgave her. Despite the fact Sal hadn’t done anything to earn it. Ethan just forgave her he didn’t ask for anything I return. Sal had to beg him for something she could do to make it up to him. Ethan came up with something not because he needed it but because Sal needed it.”
As soon as Sal realized who he was, she hunted Ethan down to apologize for holding a knife to his throat. That’s something she did. She also offered examples of things she could do for him to try to make it up. He didn’t take her up on it until she insisted, but she did make an effort to show she was willing to fix things. That’s way more than Sal’s ever got from Amber (or AG for that matter).
“The reason Sal said “I got that” to Ambers apology is because she knows from the fight Amber is filled with self-loathing other the incident from years ago.
Now if Sal was allowed to make amends AFTER being for given the least you can do is do is give Amber the same Courtesy.”
For one thing, Emily is not Sal or Ethan. She’s allowed to have different ideas of what constitutes proper amends and a proper apology. Secondly, again, your ‘after’ is still a false equivalence.
“And frankly, hate doesn’t always have the weight people ascribe to it. For me anyways, it’s pretty easy to move along with my day and only be like ‘Oh, yeah, fuck that person’ when they come up”
Not to mention letting go of your resentment and anger towards someone for the sake of your own emotional well being does not necessitate granting them forgiveness or in fact interacting with them at all. Absolving the person who hurt you of guilt is not a necessary step in moving on from that hurt there is no reason you can’t just wash your hands of them.
ey you two have been the ones most consistently putting to words my gripes about this whole nonsense and just being absolutely correct in general and I appreciate that
Thank you. The comments have been kinda weird for me for the past little bit because A) I like both Sal and Amber and I’ve seen comments denigrating both unfairly and B) I’m white, so while I try, I do sometimes miss things.
Are you illiterate? Literally as soon as Sal realized who Ethan was she was apologizing and begging for a way to make amends there isn’t an earlier possible time frame she could have followed. Amber found out who Sal was and promptly started stalking and harassing her while concealing their shared history. How are these comparable? How is immediate contrition and seeking to make amends comparable to doubling down on hurting your victim? Like, Amber’s feelings mean jack shit as far as forgiveness goes her words and actions are what matter and her words and actions fucking sucked.
I think she’s stuck on the dinosaur part and just wish the other two would finish all that trauma thing already so they can talk about something important
1: There are entirely too many ways to answer that last panel.
2: I love Amber’s belated apology, it feels fitting for her to say sorry now of all times. Sal responds appropriately, too!
3: I guess the intention with the red panels here is to convey that Amber is making an effort despite her still very-present fear/trauma, instead of trying to run like always? I like it, artistically speaking. So, even though Amber’s kind of having this all pushed on her when she’s exhausted, I still think she’s making a huge effort in doing this and, hell, I’m proud of her! Yay, positive endings!
This makes sense, especially when you consider while there is the red background… neither of the two seem to have red hues. It’s a great visual cue that while the anger is still there as Amber said… it is not motivating them.
My suggestions for these two are: real life action roleplaying, unisex mixed martial arts, modern art that involves breaking stuff, a detective agency that follows the law and bends it a bit for the good of innocent people, joining antifa, do kayfabe at WWE, hunt wild boars to help the ecosystem (even if humans cause more damage than wildboars), do environmental activism, play Dark Souls as sun bros (sis?), or create a League of Legends team.
Forgiveness isn’t always a two-way street. I’m currently living in a one-way forgiveness relationship with someone who is no longer my friend, but once was the brother I never had.
Pretty sure Sal doesn’t really owe Amber an apology for that—at most, it’d be a “sorry I scared you” apology, since Ethan’s the one who was held captive. Amber’s response at the time was awfully excessive. Personally, I think they’re pretty much square now.
Bullshit. Sal opened that conversation with an apology. Sal hunting down Ethan to apologize as soon as she realized who he was and offering to do things for him (which he didn’t take up, but she did make the offer) after having been arrested and serving the penalties handed out (therapy and being shipped off to Tennessee for five years) is not the same thing as Amber sitting in her room doing nothing after having stalked Sal at least three times and then hanging out with her to stop Ryan and his goons without ever thinking to mention their history other than a vague, non-specific apology as AG, and nevertheless being forgiven (from her PoV) out of nowhere.
People can put whatever constraints on their forgiveness they like (and in this case, Willis can decide those constraints for them) but let’s not pretend the two situations were equivalent. This is like the third time you’ve posted this and it’s a glaringly false equivalence.
Quick correction – Sal didn’t open the conversation with an apology. It was one of the first things she said though, after a couple lines of incredibly awkward small talk about how different they were, appearance and accent wise.
I was thinking about that after I posted my comment so this may be more wrapped up than I though, especially with the strip after this in consideration. And more reflection maybe Amber needed to hear both?
But, yeah, no.
If someone threatened my friend with a Knife, a sorry to BOTH OF US (but with them being in priority) would be the LEAST I expect. Just a bit. At least these two have vigilantism with Amaze girl to fall back on a little, other wise I thing getting to the cuteness of the next strip would have been a MUCH longer ways off.
Amber has yet to do anything specific to apologize or make peace for the stabbing, stalking or harassment. AG offered a vague, general ‘I’m sorry for more than you know’ and offered her the app to find her, but neither is very specific to what she did wrong and both were before Sal knew the full context of what happened. They might have made Sal more inclined to be forgiving (especially when she made the connection on how cyclical the violence was and how messed up Amber is) but it’s not the same thing as Sal immediately finding Ethan, making a specific apology and offering things she could do specifically related to that apology.
You could argue Sal owes Amber an apology, but that doesn’t really change Sal forgave Amber without Amber making any sort of steps towards that.
Amber’s trauma was more about what she did to Sal than what Sal herself did. It was about how she’s a monster just like her dad. That’s what Sal realized a few strips ago.
Sal asking forgiveness does not help that. Sal forgiving her, does.
She wouldn’t have done that to Sal without threatening Ethan, though. Like, those are MORE than linked. Becoming like Blane/ sticking up to Sal BOTH informed the idea she’d be “like him.”
She may need to hear that MORE. Maybe. But like, threatened friend’s life? Still?
♪ FORGIVENESS means more than saying sorry
FORGIVENESS means accepting people’s flaws
To forgive is divine so let’s have a glass of wine
And have make up sex until the end of time (time, time, time) ♪
I wonder if AG will be filled in on this, and how it will go if she’s not. Could be the thing that gets someone to go, “Hey, I think there’s something more than just dress up time going on here.”
After this, Sal is well-positioned to be clued into the degree of AG’s disconnect from Amber. All it should take is a conversation that makes it obvious to Sal that AG has distinct memories from Amber, then she should make that realization, right? Though, I have no idea what Sal would actually do with that information.
See, it’s perfect—it’s a great outlet for anger, they’re both athletic, it’s been foreshadowed with Carla’s line of questioning and the Marcie situation, AND it’s a way to deal with anger that doesn’t involve violence and jumping onto speeding cars!
Going up hill will still have it’s battles. There are no promises that there will be no more problems but as far as what’s between these two go I think they’re going to be fine.
Everyone I’ve read who has DID and talked about it online said it wasn’t that simple. The one I’ve read who talked a lot about fading alters has said that every system they’ve met who had that happen had it happen with faint alters that weren’t around long and didn’t do much. AG seems…stronger, for lack of a better word, than that.
He absolutely is. To the point where in Batman Beyond, he says he knows a voice he’s been hearing wasn’t his own thoughts because it called him “Bruce”; and that’s now how he thinks of himself in his own mind.
This has been 5-6 years in the making. I became anxious wondering if Amber would receive Sal’s peace offering – I’m glad Amber did. Great Job weaving this storyline through flashbacks, one liners, and soliloquies,..
all culminating into a simple handshake of forgiveness. Congrats Willis.
Color me pleased as punch. Congrats to both. Now join roller derby or boxing or karate club and start a campus watch!
And get therapy and meds, because effing seriously.
gonna be honest stabby or no stabby I have yet to see amber get an apology for being put in the situation in the firstplace
seriously the one who did the hold up should apologize first, in my town that girl could have been killed for what she did
I don’t doubt that it’s true that a little black girl that the cops in your town wouldn’t try to subdue a little black girl without killing her, but it’s actually extremely fucked up that you think Sal should be grateful she wasn’t needlessly gunned down by police.
It’s also a bit messed up (for similar reasons) that you think she should apologize even before offering forgiveness to Amber, who only moments ago threatened to stab her (again).
Let’s also remember how Amber didn’t just stab Sal and permanently impair her ability to use that hand. She followed it up with stalking and assault.
So no. No apology for Amber, though Sal DID apologize first. To Ethan. Who still actually deserved one.
Like from Sal’s perspective Amber borders on like “villain in a psychological horror movie” levels of fucked up behaviour. Like, first she stabs her. Then five years later she shows up in her life to stalk her and constantly try to pick fights with her. Then she seems to chill out a bit and they start to mend bridges while Sal still doesn’t know about their shared history. Then she starts seeing her brother while still withholding this information. Then Sal finally puts the pieces together. Like that looks absolutely horrific without the context the readers have why would you even entertain the notion of apologizing to this person.
…Am I the only person slightly bothered by Sal’s “yeah, ah got that”? The word “sorry” can be really hard to summon, and Amber has literally defined herself by that moment, so I dislike that she’s not being positively reinforced for saying it out loud. Again, only slightly bothered.
You have to take Sal’s personality into consideration. I suspect that she’s embarrassed and uncomfortable having to deal with others emotional epiphanies; dealing with her own is hard enough. I suspect that a certain rough-but-cheerful friendliness is the most we can realistically expect from her.
I didn’t mean to say that Sal owes Amber an apology at all. I meant that Amber’s “I’m sorry” was dismissed a little bit there, and I didn’t care for that fact.
I get it though. Sal’s been wonderful in this scene. It’s just a pet peeve.
This would be a lot more powerful for me if Amber had had to make any effort whatsoever and not just had Sal drop this reconciliation in her lap through no work of her own. This arc was really soured for me by its clueless adherence to tired forgiveness tropes without consideration for their wider context and what they imply.
Bright side I guess, next time I’m worried about the direction Willis is going with a plot line I hope I don’t have to listen to people telling me to trust him because he’s socially conscious enough not to make whatever blunder I’m concerned about.
Cool it with the hyperbole. Amber hasn’t done anything to make amends for how she’s treated Sal I hardly think it’s ridiculous to feel like she should have done something before being granted forgiveness. She didn’t even offer an apology until after the fact.
I think Sal may feel different. In previous comics we’ve seen Amber/Amazi-girl (before their personalities got way more split) do things that suggested Amber was offering herself up for punishment… picking a fight with Sal in the parking lot (when she was at a disadvantage), asking Sal to ‘end her’ during her fight.
Granted, its not Amber saying “I’m sorry”, but in a twisted (and admittedly self-destructive way) she is admitting that she has wronged Sal.
I gotta say, I’m in a weird space because this outcome was extremely impressive for Sal. She showed a lot of growth and maturity here try to be above her own anger. Other than that though, I agree that Sal had to basically carry Amber through this reconciliation and it’s unfair that she had to.
I’m especially disappointed to see how much people think Sal owes Amber so much over what happened 5 years ago but Amber apparently owes Sal so little over what happened…the past couple of months.
Or some of us aren’t thinking in terms of who owes who more or who is obligated to do what, but in terms of how best for Sal to achieve her goal of de-escalating/making peace once she established that was her goal.
Sure, we can argue that it should have been Amber reaching out to her first and the Sal should have just waited until that happened, but then we’d still be waiting and risking more fights and escalation in the interim.
You can justify it all you want within the narrative but it doesn’t change the fact that this trope of marginalized people granting unearned forgiveness to people who harm them has unpleasant connotations in a wider societal context. Whether or not it works in the context of the story is kinda moot when my problem is that it furthers the harmful expectation in our society that marginalized people just have to be the bigger person and put up with mistreatment.
I get where you’re coming from, truly, but still, some of the reactions to this arc have been lopsided. I’m sorry for coming after you personally that time but things like the fight (that both of them had a hand in initiating) being summed up as “the time Sal choked amber” feels super gross to me. I’ve said a lot that I wanted Sal to do better. I wanted their first encounter to be more like this than the fight on the stairs. But it feels like lots of people believe that acknowledging Amber’s issues and wanting both of them to do better are mutually exclusive, so they’ll just focus on amber’s issues.
Do you notice how this puts so much more responsibility and pressure on the woc to be perfect in facilitating a reconciliation that involves wrongdoing on both parts? And that you’ve consistently argued that the white woman doesn’t have to do anything?
Whenever someone mentions that Amber’s wronged Sal, you have a tendency to exaggerate that into them saying “Sal’s done nothing wrong”, which is not an argument anyone has said. Even here, literally all that is being said is that Amber could at least do something instead of being given this reconciliation through no effort of her own. But, no, instead Sal has to be the one to do all the emotional labor and be the mature one, because reasons.
In the larger context where marginalized people are expected to absolve people who harmed them with absolutely no effort on their part, it’s gross. And you’re feeding into that, dude.
Oh, for sure. And its absolutely a symptom of the ever-present racial dynamics in Sal’s life. WOC, especially black women, constantly get hit with this pressure to perform free emotional labor and put in all the work when it comes to relationships, and to maintain constant control of their emotions especially when it comes to interactions with white people, and anything less and they get hit with the “angry black woman” label.
Before anyone pops in, no, I’m not saying Sal was done nothing wrong or that she can’t be criticized. Just that there are meta contexts that definitely play into what is happening here and the expectation of Sal’s attitudes and behaviors vs the expectations for Amber.
Hell, right now, I’m thinking of the time Walky came to ‘apologize’ to Sal after she told him about their parents. I put apologize in quotes because Walky did absolutely nothing of the kind, despite SAYING he was there to apologize. Never did the words ‘I apologize’ or ‘I’m sorry’ come out of his mouth and he didn’t acknowledge what he did wrong, except in the vague general sense of ‘I haven’t been a good brother to you’. Which he follows up by saying he wants to be a good brother now – to Billie. Sal takes it in the spirit he intended (that he wants to be a better brother and knows he’s messed that up) but still. No wonder the poor girl isn’t very good at talking things out if that’s the level of communication she’s used to (well, that and her own issues meaning her abilities of emotional understanding and communication are at ‘stinky baby’ level).
Perhaps we’re all not really hearing what the others are saying. You’re hearing me say that Sal has to do it all and Amber doesn’t have to do anything. I’m hearing plenty of “Amber is a monster who doesn’t deserve anything.”
Maybe it would have been a better story all along if Amber wasn’t so screwed up and was in a place where she could reach out and Sal was the more messed up one who couldn’t take the first steps, but that’s a completely different story and would have had to have been set up differently from years back.
You are vastly overstating the inevitability of this shitty racist trope within this narrative. This outcome could have been avoided literally in yesterday’s strip without a significant amount of fuss and it only gets easier as you move back. The fact that I haven’t spent the last like 3 months gnashing my teeth and cursing Willis is proof enough that this wasn’t the obvious plot mandated outcome here.
It could certainly have been avoided by Sal not doing it.
I suppose it could have been avoided by Amber apologizing first, but I think that would have needed more build up for it to have not seemed out of character. Maybe it could have worked just with Amber getting more revelations during the fight and after, instead of keeping the focus on Sal.
Maybe I’m missing some obvious approach that would have worked.
Again, Amber should have. Sal shouldn’t have had to. Not sure what else to say.
It also could have been done with Amber being affected by what Sal was saying about appearances and any sort of comment acknowledging stalking her was wrong. Even if she couldn’t say she was sorry first, that would have been something.
I don’t think it would take Sal being the more messed up one for ‘Sal makes the first move in reconciling when Amber’s done more crap to Sal recently and hasn’t made any overtures on making up with that’ to be a bad idea.
Yeah, even right now you are clearly not at all hearing what I am saying considering you keep ignoring the context of “marginalized people being expected to do the majority of emotional labor and absolve the actions of the person who hurt them who put forth no effort in reconciliation” that has been repeatedly said to you. Even now you are ignoring the fact that you have repeatedly had higher expectations for Sal regarding this reconciliation and criticized every single thing she’s done so far for it because she’s not going about it “the best way”, but you clearly do not have the same expectations or criticisms for Amber, who is an equal party in this situation. You also keep bringing up how Sal choked Amber in the fight, ignoring literally everything that Amber had done in that fight to Sal including kicking her down the stairs.
And again, given the entire context of racial dynamics and white privilege that have affected every part of Sal and Amber’s relationship thus far and had significant affects on their storylines, it’s completely flooring how you cannot see the correlation between that and what is happening here. This is another symptom of that, where Sal has more expectations put on her to do this entire gesture of peace-making right than Amber does, to the point where people are acting like Sal should just get over what Amber did or that Amber is somehow completely incapable of making reparations to Sal or acknowledging the things she’s done because she’s mentally ill. That is not at all fair to Sal in any way, shape, or form.
And to be explicitly clear so there’s no chance of being misunderstood: I am not saying that Sal is perfect or hasn’t done anything wrong to Amber. There are mistakes she’s made and things that she’s done that she should acknowledge and make reparations for.
But Amber has wronged Sal too, though.
And there is a wider meta context of marginalized, particularly black women, having so many more expectations put on them to perform free emotional labor and to forgive their aggressors, even when they have not shown any sign of remorse or made any attempt at peace-making themselves. And all of their efforts at doing so are scrutinized much more closely than the shitty non-efforts of other people, because hey! They’re just more mature. They have better control of their emotions. It’s a shitty, harmful attitude and trope that keeps getting perpetuated.
Sal is not, in fact, any more mature than Amber. They’re the same age. So why is Sal held to a higher expectation to be reasonable and emotionally mature than Amber? It’s not all because of Amber’s mental illness. There are meta contexts why people read Sal like that.
You don’t understand, Amber is traumatized which apparently means she is a literal toddler psychologically and thus incapable of taking responsibility for her actions.
The fact is that Sal is more able to start the reconciliation process than Amber because Amber’s mental and emotional conditions are so much more delicate. It isn’t a case that I think Sal ‘owes’ anything to Amber; it’s just that she’s really the only person who can take the first few necessary steps.
Nah I’m not willing to infantilize Amber to the point where I don’t even expect her to be capable of at the very least a simple apology especially since she just showed that she is.
Amber has issues, but she’s a big girl. She’s responsible for herself. She didn’t need Sal to use kid gloves or debase herself with underserved apologies.
It demeans both characters to expect Sal to have gone even further while expecting absolutely nothing from Amber.
This is where I’m at now too. I think Sal’s shown a lot of maturity in recognizing the cyclical nature of her lashing out and escalating (and that sometimes biting her friends in the ass) and is trying to get a hold of her anger. I’m also very proud of how much compassion she’s capable of, but that’s not a new trait.
I’m proud of Amber too. I know it’s got to be hard to make peace with Sal and to apologize here, and I think this is a great first step.
That said, I agree that the comments have been…iffy at times (my favourite are the ones who blame Sal for the fight, when BOTH OF THEM agreed it’s what they wanted. Apparently Sal wanting to fight makes it her fault, but Amber wanting to fight doesn’t make it equally her fault, because according to the comments ‘Sal’s in a better frame of mind to make that decision’ – Yeah, ’cause Sal wasn’t acting at least in part out of trauma and fury at all. This whole ‘she’s more mature’ argument is bullshit when it comes to who’s culpable for the fight).
And, in the larger media context, it’s hard not to see Emily’s point. Amber didn’t apologize here, Sal forgave her because she realized A) The cycle leading up to the robbery and B) That Amber/AG is really messed up about wanting to fight fairly with her and get hurt. Amber had to make no effort to reconcile. When marginalized characters tend to forgive people who hurt them without the person having to work for it is a larger problem in media in general and that does make me wince.
Now, I dunno where Willis is going with this. Maybe the fact Amber didn’t have to work for Sal to forgive her will come back later, when AG thinks Sal’s still her sidekick. Maybe Amber will slide further because PTSD, anxiety, etc. don’t go away like magic and then she and Sal will have an argument where Sal reminds her she didn’t work for that. Maybe this will bite her relationship with Walky in the ass. I don’t know what Willis has planned, even if this is optimistic for now. Who knows? But as it stands, I have to see Emily’s point.
Like, maybe Willis is going somewhere less gross with this but this is a trope I’m not really inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to be proven wrong here but this narrative has so far been pretty fucking textbook in it’s implementation of it.
Emily, your responses to this entire arc have been a less conflicted version of my own and I thank you for that. It’s disappointing and gross that there are still people who think Sal should apologize first, either because “she started it!” or because “she’s more capable of it” or “Amber is actually really sorry because see how much she’s suffered”. Sal has been the bigger person above and beyond what was required of her to be and has got no reparations for the harm done to her. Is it still a good thing that she forgave Amber? Yes it is–it’s independent closure for herself, and it’s a kindness to a mentally ill person who needed to hear it. But make no mistake, this is still a WOC giving unearned absolution to a white woman who has harmed her with direct intent and malice. That Sal is capable of it indicates character growth and complexity, but that the plot required her to understand Amber’s baggage and accommodate it like this is a tired reiteration of an unjust cliche.
Like people forget that these aren’t actual real human beings with agency making real decisions. Their choices and circumstances are all entirely dictated by the white guy writing the story and the fact that he chose to write it this way is not great.
Nah, I really hope that this can grow into them stopping the AmaziGirl business. Sal recognised that it was unhealthy ages ago and Amber has wanted to stop, too, just AmaziGirl wouldn’t let her.
I don’t think Amber will really get better until AmaziGirl stops — and vice versa? If Amber is better, AmaziGirl isn’t needed.
Amber and Amazigirl both need to learn that its not as simple as Amazigirl good Amber bad. They also need to realize that Amazigirl is not just there to protect the world from Amber.
Amazigirl needs to learn to do things besides play superhero and needs to learn not to use superheroics as an excuse to beat people up.
I’ve always imagined that a DoA epilogue (narrated by Joyce) will include this line: “As for Sal and Amber…? Well, all I can say is that Indianapolis is… protected.” The panel shows an adult Amazi-Girl and Sal in very professional super-suits, standing in heroic poses on top of a sky-scraper, back-lit by the full moon.
Man, I’m hoping for the first. I really feel like the AmaziGirl business needs to stop for Amber to get better; maybe whatever understanding Sal and and Amber have can help keep Amber at the forefront and push AmaziGirl back.
(I remember Amber already wanted to stop AmaziGirl, but then AmaziGirl just went out without Amber’s knowledge.)
That’s still not how DID works.
Amber and Amazi-Girl have to work something out. Something that doesn’t involve “stopping Amazi-Girl”. It may involve Amazi-Girl stopping the crime-fighting, but that’s somewhat different.
Also I think Amber sees Amazigirl’s existence as an attempt to redeem her. So Amber wanting rid of Amazigirl is just her wanting everyone to give up on her. Amber is not trying to reclaim her life so much as saying so you think you can help me no one can.
I honestly hope its roller derby and not just video games. Since amber already plays video games that doesnt look like its been preventing her from vigilantism…
Some mixed feelings about this (tho I’m glad it went well for Sal’s sake, and that Amber’s trying to accept other people’s feelings more) but the thing that keeps sticking for me is that it makes the fight scene feel kinda pointless? Like, as soon as Sal had a chance to process everything she knows about Amber/Amazi-girl, she immediately chose to forgive. It feels like that could’ve just as easily happened if Amber had just listened to Ethan when he said talking to Sal went well and decided to face her nonviolently too. It would’ve been harder for Amber, but it might’ve made the forgiveness feel more earned.
Ehh, Sal’s been repeatedly shown to be a thoughtful and self-aware person. I’m not convinced that if Amber had just talked to her she wouldn’t have come to the same realization, especially since she already recognized a lot of her own bad behavior in Amazi-girl.
She certainly shows plenty of arrogant traits yes but this was about self-awareness. She doesn’t realize she has the best, most important priviledge there is and thats money. Instead of reform school (or whatever the USA has) she went to boarding school, shes going to college and doesn’t seem to have work an extra job, like some to afford it, and was quite dismissive of Marcie working as security.
Everything she did for Marcie, the going without, the committing crimes did Marcie ever actually want Sal to do any of that or did Sal just decide to, would Marcie have even accepted the money knowing it came from crime
How helpful was Sal to Joyce after Joyce was drugged, Sal decided, based on her experience that going to police was a bad idea and to take the law into your hands was a better idea, at the very least Joyce may have gotten some therapy
Shes, luckily, doing very well here but shes still just a teenager and has a lot of growing up to do (like most of the cast)
Dude, Sal does not have access to nearly enough money to negate being a black woman with a criminal record in America and it borders on straight up delusion to think otherwise. And it sounds like her boarding school was a reform school in all but name.
She was a 13 year old wracked with guilt over her perceived responsibility for her friend being crippled who tried to help through legal means and had the fruits of that effort stolen. I think cutting her a bit of slack for desperation fueled terrible decision making wouldn’t be out of order. Also, that was 5 years ago anyway so it’s not particularly reasonable to hold that against her now.
I mean Sal was entirely right about Joyce’s situation. A sexual assault claim with no witnesses besides the victim and no evidence will get exactly nowhere in the American legal system and would just open Joyce up to a lot of secondary trauma as she’s forced to relive the incident while being doubted the whole time. Not to mention it could have opened her up to an assault charge as well.
Sal has a record? I thought she got sent to boarding school. so as to specifically not have a record which I’m assuming is something that happens if you have either money or influence
I understand why she did what she did but it that doesn’t change her lack of self awareness in the situation at all. and while it was 5 years it points to it being one of her traits
I’m not sure how much of this Sarah heard but she certainly saw Ryan grabbing and holding Joyce so I’ll take Sarahs opinion on the matter, someone that was actually there, over Sals who wasn’t
Yep. Sal being a black kid with a record is specifically why she avoided the police after the Toedad fiasco.
There’s room to talk about whether Marcie’d have taken the money from the robbery, but there’s no good reason why she wouldn’t have taken Sal up on the legally gotten money. Sure, Marcie doesn’t seem too thrilled Sal’s punishing herself for what happened, but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t take the money for surgery. Especially since it seems like Marcie’s own parents were trying to raise the money (Sal wouldn’t have been able to set up the fundraiser herself, legally – you have to be 18 for gofundme and that’s what the site is based on. I imagine the site requires some sort of proof, so that’s probably not something she could have bullshit either).
As for Ryan, yeah, Sarah saw him with Joyce and probably overheard him. How’s she gonna prove it? Meanwhile, Ryan does have proof he was assaulted, which is something Sal pointed out. They waited until the drugs were out of her system because Joyce didn’t want to go to the hospital and after that, they didn’t have much to go on besides the group’s word it happened – which means exactly jack and shit in a lot of sexual assault cases.
Yeah, she mentioned it after the Becky car chase. Then Amazi-girl mocked her about it because she’s a dick like that.
I don’t think I’ve ever known a self-aware 13 year old that’s not a character trait that’s part of being 13. It’s like saying being immature is a character trait based on them being immature when they were 13.
Imma be blunt here: Sarah was wrong. She puts too much faith in established power structures and all reporting Joyce’s assault to the police without any physical evidence would have accomplished is forcing Joyce to relive it in excruciating detail over and over while being met with skepticism because of her admittedly foggy recollection. Young white men with “promising futures” don’t eat sexual assault charges without overwhelming proof and sometimes not even then.
Not quite true Emily – them going to the cops would’ve ALSO resulted in, bare minimum, Sarah being arrested and charged with assault and battery, since, as Sal pointed out, she’d be volunteering she assaulted a guy and it’s well and good for Dorothy to talk about trying proper channels when she’s not the one who was holding the bat. Sarah was willing to risk it. Joyce wasn’t.
She’s not perfect, sure, but I’d still say she’s better in that department than most of the cast. And again, given she’s already recognized her own bad habits and behavior in Amazi-girl, I’d say she certainly has enough self-awareness to recognize the same in Amber without needing that fight to convince her.
So there’s something that’s been nagging at me over the course of this story line, and I’m not sure how to express it, because I don’t want to come off as extolling the virtues of Enlightened Centrism or dismiss anyone else’s concerns about the direction of the story or their own similar lived experiences.
I don’t doubt that in fiction and reality, the onus is shoved onto racial minorities to be the bigger person, to forgive without an apology, to carry the emotional load. And that’s terrible and distressing and sounds exhausting, and while I hope this isn’t the end of the exploration of Sal and Amber’s weird interactions and emotions regarding the past and present, I’m sure that doesn’t clear out the bad taste that this current resolution has to leave. I can’t imagine how tiring it is to see that sort of thing time and again, only to be told “wait and see” over and over. I’m sure a lot of the comments on this arc must seem like a slap in the face from that perspective.
But I’ve seen a trend that troubles me in the opposite direction, regarding the reaction to Amber. Admittedly, I relate to her strongly as another seriously mentally ill, traumatized child of abuse with a comic obsession (and I don’t mean to suggest that Sal isn’t abused and traumatized as well), but a lot of the reaction to Amber’s side of the story has seemed scarily black and white to me.
There have been comments saying that Amber’s appropriating Ethan’s trauma, that Sal only “scared” Amber during the robbery, that if Ethan forgives Sal, Amber has no right to have any of her own feelings about it. That’s not how trauma works, and seeing that, stupid as it sounds, has made me feel like I’m somehow in the wrong for having problems coping with my memories of seeing others suffer.
Amber’s illness has become so severe that she’s having dissociative episodes where she can’t remember what she’s been doing. Her panic attacks have become more frequent. She faced an assailant with a knife again very recently and started a new spiral of self-hatred after turning the knife on the other person again. And yes, it’s absolutely wrong to put all the burden of being the bigger person and being rational onto Sal, but Amber shouldn’t be the one to shoulder it all either. Neither of them should have to be dealing with this, now or in their pasts. They’re kids, and they were failed by the people who were supposed to love and protect them the most.
I’ve been so sick and full of self-hatred that I had to have come off as narcissistic and self-obsessed. I’ve gone through periods of depression and anxiety so severe and all-encompassing that I was awful to others and lashed out constantly, because all I could focus on was staying alive and in my messed up brain, somehow, being as horrible as I was was the only way to do that. That doesn’t make the things I did right, and I wouldn’t blame my friends if they had given up and left. I’ve apologized as I healed. But when I was so low, I didn’t apologize. I was so busy trying to hold the pieces of myself together that I never thought to.
And maybe I’m infantalizing Amber by thinking that way. Maybe it comes off like I think that people with mental illness shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, even if they’re violent. But I don’t mean it that way. I see Amber as a danger to herself and to others. I think she should be hospitalized, if only briefly, because when you’re that unstable and that convinced that you’re a monster, it starts to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I’m glad she hasn’t been hospitalized, both because it would make Ryan’s parents’ lawsuit a sure win for them and also because I’m sure she wouldn’t go willingly and mentally ill people have a high risk of being killed by police after bystanders call the cops due to suicidal, violent, or erratic behaviors, but she needs serious help. She’s literally not in control of herself sometimes and even if it is infantalizing, I don’t think she can truly start to deal with the things she’s done to others until she has a better grip on herself.
Again, I don’t want to minimize Sal’s pain. I don’t want to say Amber is blameless or that her behaviors have been justified. But some of this discussion has seemed to me like it would be fine to shift all of the burden onto Amber as if her mental illness is just something she can shrug off. Amber’s privileged in many ways that Sal isn’t, and that’s absolutely affected their interactions, but she’s also part of an extremely vulnerable minority group, and I just wish it were easier to acknowledge her issues and struggles without dismissing Sal’s.
I’m sorry things haven’t going well, Lauralot. I’ve felt the same way a few times on here – like, Amber was a lot more than scared. She was traumatized in that robbery too. She doesn’t handle it well sometimes and yes, she can be controlling of Ethan’s reaction sometimes, but there’s no ‘must be THIS bad to count’ threshold on trauma. I wouldn’t fault her if she’d told Sal to get out of her room instead of apologizing.
I feel like in the comments there’s been a real problem with people feeling like if they like one of these two, the other must be bad and unreasonable. It seems like lately a lot of otherwise great commenters can’t seem to support what one of the girls says without shitting on the other. That’s been bugging me for a while. I’m sure there’ve been times I’ve come off that way myself, but yeah. They’re both really messed up by trauma and I don’t think it’s fair to try to turn it into some sort of competition.
If not, that’s what AO3 is for, I guess. I guess there’s still a few weeks for them to walk it back, but tumblr likes to double down, so we’ll see. I don’t even know how to find all my flagged posts since I’ve already noticed two (neither of which were even remotely NSFW) and I have waaaaay too many posts to scroll through them all.
My stance has never been “Amber vs. Sal” it’s been “Amber is becoming increasingly unstable and dangerous and nobody is doing anything about it” and her conflict with Sal is just the most obvious expression of that problem at the moment. Like, there comes a point where you have to accept that one person’s safety/emotional comfort simply does not outweigh the safety of the people they are endangering with their actions. Amazi-girl could have killed or seriously injured multiple people during the car chase with Becky (including Becky) and the only real reason she didn’t was narrative convenience.
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“what kind of adapter do ya need for that outlet”
“idk, how do you adapt to nonviolence”
“Can I buy one on Amazon?”
Stop making me think about Christmas shopping. That’s what I come here to get AWAY from!
Seriously, is there anything you can’t buy on Amazon?
Can you buy humans on Amazon? Not yet, to my knowledge.
humans aren’t a product, they are an *earning asset*. bezos didn’t buy all his humans just to pass them on to YOU.
Good feathered dinosaur plushes?
(I mean far be it for me to give Bezos any more money but IF THEY’RE THERE)
There’s only one company left that still makes them, and they’re in Vietnam. And the first search result for the company name is a court filing from 1997 that involved a house fire that claimed three lives.
THE PACT IS SEALED
And the Reed Hall Karaoke Team is founded!
And they’re not stopping til they get to regionals!
by regionals, you mean their half of the quad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6DrHjlxbwI
The cathartic potential of karaoke is underestimated.
Gonna be real, this is going 10x better than my pessimistic self anticipated, and I’m overjoyed about that fact.
EVERYTHING IS GOING BETTER THAN EXPECTED
(coming next: Blaine)
BEST ENDING BEST ENDING BEST ENDING
this page is honestly so great and it makes me really happy to read this comic and be a person with feelings :’)
I was 99% sure Amber was going to reject Sal’s apology for one reason or another; I was just dreading to see how violent that rejection was going to be. This is so very much better.
I’d love if this was the last red panel.
Technically, the only one who’s apologized here is Amber. *ducks*
Quack.
Sal apologized to Ethan the only person she owed an apology to.
I definitely thought this would go badly, and I’m glad that I was wrong.
Wait until Sal explains that the perfect outlet is robbing convenience stores together.
DYW just somehow did something to my eyes or something
they’re all blurry for some reason
It’s the onion-chopping ninjas.
And then we’re gonna go on even MORE adventures after that, Sal. And you’re gonna keep your MOUTH SHUT about it, Sal…
..because the world is full of idiots that don’t understand what’s important. And they’ll TEAR us apart, Sal!!
But if you stick with me, I’m gonna accomplish great things, Sal, and you’re gonna be part of ’em.
And together we’re gonna run around, Sal, we’re gonna… do all kinds of wonderful things, Sal. Just you and me, Sal. The outside world is our enemy, Sal.. we’re the only…. friends we’ve got, Sal! It’s just Amber and Sal. Amber and Sal and their adventures, Sal.. AMBER AND SAL FOREVER AND FOREVER A HUNDRED YEARS Amber and Sal.. some…things.. Me and Amber and Sal runnin’ around and… Amber and Sal time… a- all day long forever.. all a – a hundred days Amber and Sal! forever a hundred times…. OVER and over Amber and Sal… adventures dot com.. W W W dot at Amber and Sal dot com w..w..w…Amber and Sal adventures.. ah- hundred years….. every minute Amber and Sal dot com…. w w w a hundred times… Amber and Sal dot com…….”
Just wait till Amber tells Sal that her sidekick needs her own pajamas…and a cape, and a letter “S” … oh wait
AAAAAAAAAAAA
this too is what I came here to say
ROLLER DERBY
I expect you’re right, cause Sal will wanna show off her “healing” to Marcie, and pound Malaya’s face in while she’s at it
Solving crimes, while traveling from city to city in the Love Bus!
And both Sal and Amber know the other can roller skate.
I mean, it’s not like Willis hasn’t foreshadowed that, what with Sal getting at least one invite to join and him having drawn two different Sal roller derby models.
On the other hand, that …might not be the BEST outlet in the world. I loved martial arts, but sometimes the line got blurred on where you were doing your best at the sport and where you were taking your aggression out on others, just in a more ‘appropriate’ setting. I’m told roller derby gets pretty vicious, which concerns me.
On the other hand, it has to be better than bottling it or lashing out in poorly planned ways, so.
Wonder what AG’s gonna make of this?
Yeah, can’t agree more. Roller derby’s fun but much like beating up thugs it’s only a band-aid to the long term issues, especially for Amber. Still should be entertaining to see if it happens.
I am talking myself around to the belief that the feasible thing that would best resolve the real issues for Sal and Amber (or at least, Amber’s external issues) would be to inflict thorough, public humiliations on Linda and Blaine.
Blaine in jail (or murdered because the mob’s had enough) and Linda’s shittiness known to the wider public as ‘it’s not just Sal being A Bad Girl, Linda is a terrible mother’ would be excellent.
I’m not sure it would be as satisfying to them as it would be to us (parental abuse emotions are Complicated,) but some justice regarding them would still be good.
There’s rules. You can’t just punch someone in the face and not expect to get in trouble.
There’s more ways to fuck someone up without punching them randomly in the face. Especially in a game infamous for breaking ribs.
I literally play derby. I know how it is.
I’ve seen girls break legs by falling over with no one touching them. Ive been knocked around and broke a teammates hand. (Still sour that wasn’t called as a high block)
What I’m saying is there’re rules. You put a bongo on the floor and get floored and when the game is over you high five and plan food.
Good for you.
My point is even when there are rules, you can very easily blur the line between playing aggressively and taking your aggression out on someone else because the game is aggressive and you probably won’t get in too much trouble for it.
You can, but when everyone around you is also a highly-aggressive beatstick in need of release there needs to be some kind of social dysfunction involved for people not to care that you’re being more violent and causing more injuries than other people.
It’s less that it can’t happen and more that that is specifically something people pay attention to in contact sports.
You are all falling for Willis’s misdirection when the obvious answer is tag team wrestling.
That’s not my experience with contact sports. My experience is things look okay at the moment and then later you wonder ‘Was I actually just participating in a contact sport or was I feeling aggressive and just knocking them around because I can?’
I do some armed contact sports (not with real weapons) – I usually just call it spear fencing, but it’s wider than that, with a fairly wide range of weapons. It’s also often pretty easy to tell when someone is fighting aggressively in the sense of being effective and going into the sport, as opposed to someone fighting aggressively because they’re currently angry and it’s coming out.
Being on the receiving end of that second one can potentially be a bit scary; I’ve been fortunate enough that it’s only happened to me when I was up against people I was a lot better than and who I could handle even with them throwing shot after shot that was really borderline on safety rules, but had that been someone better than me at the sport (or had someone worse than the person I was fighting been in my place)? That wouldn’t have been pretty.
Oh, did Willis draw Roller-Derby Sal? I must have missed that…
*Goes to check*
Wait a minute, what the hell happened to the Dumblr?
Tumblr is nuking all adult content, so if there was any there… poof.
In related news, anybody want to watch a company bankrupt themselves in real time?
It’s the remains of Yahoo. That trick’s already been done.
I never liked Tumblr, and have spent the past few hours on DW directing people to instructional links and friending comms.
If you go to the URL it’s still there, but it may just be abandoned in place.
Tumblr’s trusting a flawed algorithm to delete everything it thinks is adult content soon; a lot of innocent users are getting caught in the crossfire, and still more are jumping ship in solidarity.
Look number 1!
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/86857367397/spitballin
And look number 2!
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/86879377952/cleansing-my-brain-before-sleepytime-by-taking
Don’t confuse us with facts. Apropos of nothing, do roller derby rules allow for masks and capes? Also, I reserve the right to mispronounce Dina.
There are plenty of ways in martial arts to take out aggression without it being directed at others. Doing paddle kicks helped me, but the real one was kicking the shit out of heavy bags.
Technically, on the note of foreshadowing, we’ve also seen that both Sal AND Amber can skate. (“Babyskates,” you’ll recall Sal calling AG’s wheelies.)
True, it may not be the best outlet. But it’s certainly a step in the right direction. It’s a way to channel a portion of that aggression in a way that poses way less danger to herself and forces Amber to socialize with teammates in the real world outside of the isolation of the screen.
Amber still needs professional help though. Her anxiety,guilt, PTSD, and DID won’t just go away from a better environment.
Not bloody enough.
Yeah, I had the same thought.
ROLLER DERBY ROLLER DERBY ROLLER DERBY
I was thinking about that too
Oh Stars, they are going to beat the shit out of Malaya
But likely in a sporting fashion!
Y’know, if the guesses above are right.
As much as I like seeing people go flying across a Walmart parking lot I think that only help so much.
huh
still red, though
I like how the dominate color in each frame went form red to blue.
“WOOLOOLOOOO!!”
Who converted who?
Hahahahaha
Nah, just the Soviet engineers and Yuris in action.
Thats a shame, I wanted more drama
There will be drama yet. Marcie and Malaya are still a problem for Sal, Amber still has whenever Dorothy finds out she’s with Walky, and both of them are going to have to deal with whenever Walky will find out about the fight as well as Amber having stabbed Sal. That’s going to be plenty dramatic, I imagine.
And Amazi-Girl knows nothing of any of this.
Nor so Walky or Sal know Amazi-Girl isn’t Amber.
The most intense of all Anger Fucks!
Once they buy a double-ended ‘outlest’ for their inlets.
*You hear the sound of a new Slipshine in a nearby bush*
And here comes the Amazi-girl freak out.
But Amazi-Girl is already friends with Sal.
Ah just so happ’n to write lotsa slash fiction!
“Ooh, Transformers? Marvel? Ninja Turtles?”
“Dukes a’ Hazard”
“…I can work with this.”
Smash bros!
They’re gonna “ride the General Lee” YEEEE HAAA!
I’m googling that right this minute!
Why do I feel like it’s going to smash cut to them boxing or wrestling or something?
And with Rocky music.
Derby!!!!!
Cool. Thank jimminy freaking christmas Amber apologized for real.
Aw wait a minute, nooo, don’t go back to beating up losers together!
I don’t know… Amber’s facial expression doesn’t exactly ring of sincerity to me. :/ While I do think that Amber is partially regrets what she did, I don’t think she’s truly sorry in the sense that she can forgive Sal for putting her in that situation, or to forgive herself for what she did.
Willis has spent the last several days showing us, through Sal’s realization, how Amber’s not only sorry for stabbing Sal: her regret has shaped her behaviour ever since the incident. It’s precisely BECAUSE she’s so terribly sorry that she can’t forgive herself. Her facial expression? She’s hurt and in tears and scared, I don’t know how that reads as insincere to you. This is a very difficult moment for her.
And finally one can be sorry for doing something wrong even if it was as a reaction to being wronged, and being sorry doesn’t mean one is less angry or has forgiven the original wrongdoer. She can and is sorry in spite of not being over Sal having attacked.
Finally, Sal didn’t put Amber in that situation. Blaine did. Sal was restrained when Amber attacked.
Perhaps I’m reading her expression in panel 4 wrong then. To me, it looks like the face of all the angry bullies (not saying that Amber is one, of course) in my early life who were made to apologize to me. A sort of scowly, “You want an apology? HERE!” sort of face, that you know they don’t really mean. But, that’s on me.
Too bad it came after the forgiveness so this whole plot arc is still kinda ruined for me by going exactly the way I really hoped it wouldn’t.
Yes, it would have gone so much better if they had killed each other.
Or Amber could have made any effort whatsoever to bring about this reconciliation instead of having it handed to her without having to do any of the emotional work of actually earning that forgiveness through words or actions.
There will be plenty of time for that after Sal officially becomes Amazisidekick.
You’re completely missing the point. It’s too late now Willis has already peddled the bullshit narrative where a marginalized person is expected to forgive someone who harmed them even if that person has done nothing to deserve forgiveness no amount of Amber earning it after the fact is gonna change that that’s a shitty expectation placed on marginalized people in our society and he just sorta embraced it with total sincerity.
I agree with you, but I think it is very in character for sal after hearing about Amber’s life to try to make amends. I think this was too fast. Maybe Sal should have talked to Ethan or something instead, and Ethan coaxed Amber into the apology
Kinda like how Sal was forgiven by Ethan without having actually done something to earn it.
Specifically, Sal didn’t do anything to earn Ethan’s forgiveness until after he’d forgiven her. So why can’t Amber have the same chance?
If Amber’d come rushing to Sal immediately after realizing who she was and apologized for stabbing her, you’d have something of a point.
i mean you’re completely right also
ROLLER DERBY. I’M CALLING IT
I hope it’s roller derby. I feel like it’s kind of too neat if it is, but I hope it’s roller derby.
As a Canadian I am morally obligated to suggest hockey as a superior alternative.
As a Finn I agree
Now, do they join Marcie’s roller derby team, or recruit Carla and form their own?
And in either case, how much damage will Sal and Malaya do to each other?
Cue to… the two of them….
…singing? Rollerblading? Talking about dinosaurs?
Make-up sex.
Then roller derby.
Ooooh! Long John Silvers.
Now I’m hungry.
roller derby! Or what ever that is with skatting and girls beating the crap out of each other to get ahead!!! Also I can’t really make out amber’s face in panel four, what face is she making? I can’t even be sure where here eye is.
They both look very, very angry, to me. I’m not sure I understand.
Her eyes are downcast. She it looking hard downwards to avoid meeting Sal’s gaze.
I think it is shame.
I can’t tell if Amber’s making eye contact with Sal or staring a hole in the floor in the fourth panel. It kind of looks like both irises are there, but the upper one is probably her glasses frame or something.
SEE, BLAINE, SHE COULD FACE THE FOCUS POINT OF HER TRAUMA, ASK FOR AND RECEIVE FORGIVENESS, GROW AS A PERSON AND TAKE STEPS TOWARDS HEALING.
NO THANKS TO YOU
DUMBASS!!!
Is there any chance we can put all the crappy parents (who aren’t at least TRYING to be better) on a rocket and fire them into the sun?
Well that’s a waste of a perfectly good rocket. They’d probably screw up any potential data collection that could be obtained from launching it into the sun, anyway.
A pit that’s too deep to climb out of, that no one’s using, should be sufficient.
Launch them into the core of the earth then?
Ew no, we don’t want to give the Earth indigestion
Fine. Y’know what? I’m just gonna fire them. They’re bad parents/guardians and deserve to be fired. So I’m firing them.
IF BECKY CAN FIRE ETHAN, I CAN FIRE ALL THE CRAPPY PARENTS.
Like, out of a cannon?
See? You’re getting it.
Or just fire. Flamethrowers are cheap, probably can get one on Amazon.
@ Roborat – You also get it. 😉
My main gripe is she didn’t have to ask or even make any effort to make amends she just had unearned forgiveness handed to her on a silver platter.
Guess what? You don’t determine who deserves forgiveness. The person who was wronged does.
They’re fictional characters. If they were real people sure but they’re not this entire situation is dictated by a writer. Sal isn’t a real person who decided to forgive someone who wronged her even though they did nothing to make amends she’s a fictional character written by a white dude that decided that’s what he wanted her to do.
Sal forgiving Amber is just as much about her own mental health then is Amber’s. Often you forgive someone because the weight of hating them isn’t worth it.
Sal realized that her actions traumatized Amber and helped create AG. She realized that the stalking and harassment never had anything to do with her race. But because Amber had personally witnessed her try and commit armed robbery and hold a knife to Ethan’s throat.
Your right that Sal is a fictional character. Because most humans are vindictive bastards whose forgiveness can only be bought with a checkbook. Forgiving someone because they did something for you isn’t actually forgiveness it’s just settling the score.
Genuine remorse is the most important thing. Sal was genuinely sorry for what she did so Ethan forgave her. Despite the fact Sal hadn’t done anything to earn it. Ethan just forgave her he didn’t ask for anything I return. Sal had to beg him for something she could do to make it up to him. Ethan came up with something not because he needed it but because Sal needed it.
The reason Sal said “I got that” to Ambers apology is because she knows from the fight Amber is filled with self-loathing other the incident from years ago.
Now if Sal was allowed to make amends AFTER being for given the least you can do is do is give Amber the same Courtesy.
“Sal forgiving Amber is just as much about her own mental health then is Amber’s. Often you forgive someone because the weight of hating them isn’t worth it.”
Once again, Sal is a fictional character. She’s not the one making that choice, Willis is. And frankly, hate doesn’t always have the weight people ascribe to it. For me anyways, it’s pretty easy to move along with my day and only be like ‘Oh, yeah, fuck that person’ when they come up.
“Sal realized that her actions traumatized Amber and helped create AG. She realized that the stalking and harassment never had anything to do with her race. But because Amber had personally witnessed her try and commit armed robbery and hold a knife to Ethan’s throat.”
Intent isn’t impact. AG having personal reasons to dislike Sal doesn’t take away from her being (self proclaimed) law enforcement selectively targeting a black girl to harass. That contributes to white supremacy whether she likes it or not. That’s one of the things she realized at the rally.
“Your right that Sal is a fictional character. Because most humans are vindictive bastards whose forgiveness can only be bought with a checkbook. Forgiving someone because they did something for you isn’t actually forgiveness it’s just settling the score.”
Yeah, nah. People are allowed to want a reason to forgive someone, especially if they don’t know the person well or it was a big deal. That came up this storyline too – with Marcie. Marcie’s not willing to forgive Sal at her word, she wants actual proof Sal’s working on her concerns because it’s a repeat problem with tangible consequences for Marcie.
“Genuine remorse is the most important thing. Sal was genuinely sorry for what she did so Ethan forgave her. Despite the fact Sal hadn’t done anything to earn it. Ethan just forgave her he didn’t ask for anything I return. Sal had to beg him for something she could do to make it up to him. Ethan came up with something not because he needed it but because Sal needed it.”
As soon as Sal realized who he was, she hunted Ethan down to apologize for holding a knife to his throat. That’s something she did. She also offered examples of things she could do for him to try to make it up. He didn’t take her up on it until she insisted, but she did make an effort to show she was willing to fix things. That’s way more than Sal’s ever got from Amber (or AG for that matter).
“The reason Sal said “I got that” to Ambers apology is because she knows from the fight Amber is filled with self-loathing other the incident from years ago.
Now if Sal was allowed to make amends AFTER being for given the least you can do is do is give Amber the same Courtesy.”
For one thing, Emily is not Sal or Ethan. She’s allowed to have different ideas of what constitutes proper amends and a proper apology. Secondly, again, your ‘after’ is still a false equivalence.
“And frankly, hate doesn’t always have the weight people ascribe to it. For me anyways, it’s pretty easy to move along with my day and only be like ‘Oh, yeah, fuck that person’ when they come up”
Not to mention letting go of your resentment and anger towards someone for the sake of your own emotional well being does not necessitate granting them forgiveness or in fact interacting with them at all. Absolving the person who hurt you of guilt is not a necessary step in moving on from that hurt there is no reason you can’t just wash your hands of them.
ey you two have been the ones most consistently putting to words my gripes about this whole nonsense and just being absolutely correct in general and I appreciate that
If I could I would set the concept that “forgiving the ones that hurt you is an important part of healing” on fire.
Thank you. The comments have been kinda weird for me for the past little bit because A) I like both Sal and Amber and I’ve seen comments denigrating both unfairly and B) I’m white, so while I try, I do sometimes miss things.
Are you illiterate? Literally as soon as Sal realized who Ethan was she was apologizing and begging for a way to make amends there isn’t an earlier possible time frame she could have followed. Amber found out who Sal was and promptly started stalking and harassing her while concealing their shared history. How are these comparable? How is immediate contrition and seeking to make amends comparable to doubling down on hurting your victim? Like, Amber’s feelings mean jack shit as far as forgiveness goes her words and actions are what matter and her words and actions fucking sucked.
They forgot to let go for the last two panels. Now they’re just holding hands.
hm. On first reading I assumed the outlet would be “punching jerks”. With that in mind, “makeouts” seems more likely.
I hope Dina has somewhere less awkward to crash for the night.
Meanwhile, Dina is in the background, all “Yes, yes. But if we could now turn our attention to these Pachycephalosaurus toys…”
Dina’s taking notes for her thesis: “Dinosaur mediated intervention in emotional trauma.”
I think she’s stuck on the dinosaur part and just wish the other two would finish all that trauma thing already so they can talk about something important
I was mostly just struck by how well Dina managed this entire interaction. Even if it was mostly by accident.
That’s kinda how Dina rolls.
Not that she should complain – it totally landed her Becky.
NACHITOS
No wait. That’s a Walky thing. Uhh…
A NEW THREE RING BINDER,
Or… that was Dorothy…
Good! Now kiss and make up. Or, better yet, make out!
No, that would be a Joe thing.
I think this also means, when Amber’s jerk of a dad returns and tries to mess with Amber, Sal is going to be the one to take him down.
Nah, Amber could still use some therapy-punching of him. They’ll tag-team, though.
Amber needs a punching bag that resembles Blaine.
She already had one of those. Didn’t help.
1: There are entirely too many ways to answer that last panel.
2: I love Amber’s belated apology, it feels fitting for her to say sorry now of all times. Sal responds appropriately, too!
3: I guess the intention with the red panels here is to convey that Amber is making an effort despite her still very-present fear/trauma, instead of trying to run like always? I like it, artistically speaking. So, even though Amber’s kind of having this all pushed on her when she’s exhausted, I still think she’s making a huge effort in doing this and, hell, I’m proud of her! Yay, positive endings!
This makes sense, especially when you consider while there is the red background… neither of the two seem to have red hues. It’s a great visual cue that while the anger is still there as Amber said… it is not motivating them.
My suggestions for these two are: real life action roleplaying, unisex mixed martial arts, modern art that involves breaking stuff, a detective agency that follows the law and bends it a bit for the good of innocent people, joining antifa, do kayfabe at WWE, hunt wild boars to help the ecosystem (even if humans cause more damage than wildboars), do environmental activism, play Dark Souls as sun bros (sis?), or create a League of Legends team.
Oh fuck no, starting a LoL team is precisely how you FUEL anger.
Okay, but like. Do you forgive HER though?
She did threaten Ethan’s life and shit, too
Forgiveness isn’t always a two-way street. I’m currently living in a one-way forgiveness relationship with someone who is no longer my friend, but once was the brother I never had.
Pretty sure Sal doesn’t really owe Amber an apology for that—at most, it’d be a “sorry I scared you” apology, since Ethan’s the one who was held captive. Amber’s response at the time was awfully excessive. Personally, I think they’re pretty much square now.
That’s putting it incredibly mildly. Excessive response or not, Amber was pretty clearly traumatized by it.
Cool, still doesn’t mean she’s owed an apology.
I never said it did. I’m just saying that minimizing it as ‘scared’ her is not cool.
Doesn’t mean Sal deserved forgiveness for holding a knife to Ethan’s throat yet her gave it to her without asking anything in return.
Bullshit. Sal opened that conversation with an apology. Sal hunting down Ethan to apologize as soon as she realized who he was and offering to do things for him (which he didn’t take up, but she did make the offer) after having been arrested and serving the penalties handed out (therapy and being shipped off to Tennessee for five years) is not the same thing as Amber sitting in her room doing nothing after having stalked Sal at least three times and then hanging out with her to stop Ryan and his goons without ever thinking to mention their history other than a vague, non-specific apology as AG, and nevertheless being forgiven (from her PoV) out of nowhere.
People can put whatever constraints on their forgiveness they like (and in this case, Willis can decide those constraints for them) but let’s not pretend the two situations were equivalent. This is like the third time you’ve posted this and it’s a glaringly false equivalence.
Quick correction – Sal didn’t open the conversation with an apology. It was one of the first things she said though, after a couple lines of incredibly awkward small talk about how different they were, appearance and accent wise.
I was thinking about that after I posted my comment so this may be more wrapped up than I though, especially with the strip after this in consideration. And more reflection maybe Amber needed to hear both?
But, yeah, no.
If someone threatened my friend with a Knife, a sorry to BOTH OF US (but with them being in priority) would be the LEAST I expect. Just a bit. At least these two have vigilantism with Amaze girl to fall back on a little, other wise I thing getting to the cuteness of the next strip would have been a MUCH longer ways off.
Given what Amber/Amazi-Girl’s done to Sal, both right after and more recently, she wouldn’t and shouldn’t expect any such thing.
Amber has yet to do anything specific to apologize or make peace for the stabbing, stalking or harassment. AG offered a vague, general ‘I’m sorry for more than you know’ and offered her the app to find her, but neither is very specific to what she did wrong and both were before Sal knew the full context of what happened. They might have made Sal more inclined to be forgiving (especially when she made the connection on how cyclical the violence was and how messed up Amber is) but it’s not the same thing as Sal immediately finding Ethan, making a specific apology and offering things she could do specifically related to that apology.
You could argue Sal owes Amber an apology, but that doesn’t really change Sal forgave Amber without Amber making any sort of steps towards that.
Amber’s trauma was more about what she did to Sal than what Sal herself did. It was about how she’s a monster just like her dad. That’s what Sal realized a few strips ago.
Sal asking forgiveness does not help that. Sal forgiving her, does.
She wouldn’t have done that to Sal without threatening Ethan, though. Like, those are MORE than linked. Becoming like Blane/ sticking up to Sal BOTH informed the idea she’d be “like him.”
She may need to hear that MORE. Maybe. But like, threatened friend’s life? Still?
Has it not been established once and for all that Amber’s problem with Sal was/is not what Sal did to Ethan, but what she did to Sal?
I think it’s primarily her snapping and stabbing Sal, but like…the robbery did not help.
“Cause I will forgive the ones who hurt me, but I’ll not forget your name.”
( -“I Forgive” Lacuna Coil
Just because she forgave it doesn’t mean its something she’s over. Doesn’t mean that the problem is settled.
She already apologized to Ethan and made peace with him. Ethan explicitly said he’s okay with Sal
She was not in the head space to hear that, AT ALL, though. That’s why I still thought the sorry could still be in order here.
But I think the next strip does more for her, anyway
I did not expect this. I’m pleased.
Are all interpersonal relationships at this school solved with suicide pacts?
Also: What is up with Amber’s eyes in that fourth panel!?
That would be shamefearangerpanic.
It’s not that this isn’t MASSIVELY better than what I thought this would be.
I just think it might be even LESS over than it seems, if they don’t talk that out more, too.
I am fucking crying though, this is wholesome as fuck.
And now I get to be proud of Amber. I’m happy. <33333
We got ’em both! Total pride achieved!
Seriously, end of storyline or not, it’s amazing how well this has gone!
Sal’s face here I can Feel the maturation and spirit. It’s the next one that makes me feel I wasn’t delusional
♪ FORGIVENESS means more than saying sorry
FORGIVENESS means accepting people’s flaws
To forgive is divine so let’s have a glass of wine
And have make up sex until the end of time (time, time, time) ♪
Forgiveness…. can you imaaaagine?♪
Forgiveness.♪
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ Can yOU IMAAAAAAGIIIIINEEEEEE?
I… I like this. I don’t know what exactly “this” is, but I know I like it.
I wonder if AG will be filled in on this, and how it will go if she’s not. Could be the thing that gets someone to go, “Hey, I think there’s something more than just dress up time going on here.”
After this, Sal is well-positioned to be clued into the degree of AG’s disconnect from Amber. All it should take is a conversation that makes it obvious to Sal that AG has distinct memories from Amber, then she should make that realization, right? Though, I have no idea what Sal would actually do with that information.
This strip makes me so happy.
Chapter name + alt text = Polyphonic Spree
Nice.
Yes and that outlet has a name, Leland. Now bring Michael along so his destruction can be complete.
PROGRESS!
inb4 roller derby
I am not kidding this is my current theory.
STOP LAUGHING
See, it’s perfect—it’s a great outlet for anger, they’re both athletic, it’s been foreshadowed with Carla’s line of questioning and the Marcie situation, AND it’s a way to deal with anger that doesn’t involve violence and jumping onto speeding cars!
WHY ARE YOU BOOING, I’M RIGHT
WHO’S BOOING, THIS IS A VERY POPULAR THEORY
oh shit it is?
I assumed I was the only one and zoomed down here immediately to make my pitch! :O
ROL-LER DER-BY ROL-LER DER-BY ROL-LER DER-BY!
“…and then they banged.”
*cue to wild make-up sex*
This is too wholesome a part of me don’t trust it, I really hope everything goes uphill from this point.
Going up hill will still have it’s battles. There are no promises that there will be no more problems but as far as what’s between these two go I think they’re going to be fine.
THANK YOU
I’m not sure but I think this cues the end of Amazi-Girl. Or at least the beginning of the end.
I don’t think that’s how DID (or at least dissociating to the point they no longer share memories) works that way.
It could be the beginning off the end in the sense of it being an important milestone toward getting professional help. There’s hoping anyway.
I’ll drink to that!
It does happen. Sometimes they just fade when they’re no longer needed. Or AG could be “demoted” into a simple alter ego like Batman or Slim Shady.
Everyone I’ve read who has DID and talked about it online said it wasn’t that simple. The one I’ve read who talked a lot about fading alters has said that every system they’ve met who had that happen had it happen with faint alters that weren’t around long and didn’t do much. AG seems…stronger, for lack of a better word, than that.
I thought Bruce Wayne was the alter ego.
He absolutely is. To the point where in Batman Beyond, he says he knows a voice he’s been hearing wasn’t his own thoughts because it called him “Bruce”; and that’s now how he thinks of himself in his own mind.
Wait it’s going well???
*crying* blessed be the willis
The Willis gives and the Willis takes away. But today, he gives.
Not sure I get Sal’s line in panel 4, is she being serious or sarcastic
I am tearing up. Sal is the best <3
This has been 5-6 years in the making. I became anxious wondering if Amber would receive Sal’s peace offering – I’m glad Amber did. Great Job weaving this storyline through flashbacks, one liners, and soliloquies,..
all culminating into a simple handshake of forgiveness. Congrats Willis.
I glanced at the first three panels, then I paused to let it sink in before I read the rest.
Once again, holy shit.
Wow you can tell that *physically hurt* for Amber to say
Great stuff, Sal, Amber. That’s a breakthrough.
Now please, let Sal’s plan for an outlet be something other than vigilantism!
She said she’s out of the punching game, so who knows?
I seem to recall her being extended an invite to join a team that plays a very aggressive sport though…
Mariocart!
Not what I was thinking of, but very true!
Start up a Mario Kart league!
Or, if they really want to express anger, Mario Party.
They ought to get Carla to give them lessons in serving revenge cold, swift, and absolutely ridiculous.
“Let’s go beat up Malaya!”
JAM BUDS!
HOLY CRAP, IT’S WORLD PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME.
I never thought I’d live to see this day. *sniff!*
December 4, 2018, a day that will live in … uh, famy.
Now go find Blaine and beat the crap out of him again.
Man, I still want to see Sal’s palm, though.
…now, kiss! 😀
Why do you hate Walky?
Color me pleased as punch. Congrats to both. Now join roller derby or boxing or karate club and start a campus watch!
And get therapy and meds, because effing seriously.
Cue Ethan coming into the room and being incredibly confused
Oh my god, they’re starting a girl band
If they started a band I would squee in joy.
Ah -hell- yeah!
gonna be honest stabby or no stabby I have yet to see amber get an apology for being put in the situation in the firstplace
seriously the one who did the hold up should apologize first, in my town that girl could have been killed for what she did
The one who did the hold up was Sal, yes. Which was terrifying and triggering for Amber.
But the one who put Amber in that situation was Blaine, not Sal. Sal was already restrained when Amber attacked.
Your town is awful.
I don’t doubt that it’s true that a little black girl that the cops in your town wouldn’t try to subdue a little black girl without killing her, but it’s actually extremely fucked up that you think Sal should be grateful she wasn’t needlessly gunned down by police.
It’s also a bit messed up (for similar reasons) that you think she should apologize even before offering forgiveness to Amber, who only moments ago threatened to stab her (again).
Let’s also remember how Amber didn’t just stab Sal and permanently impair her ability to use that hand. She followed it up with stalking and assault.
So no. No apology for Amber, though Sal DID apologize first. To Ethan. Who still actually deserved one.
Like from Sal’s perspective Amber borders on like “villain in a psychological horror movie” levels of fucked up behaviour. Like, first she stabs her. Then five years later she shows up in her life to stalk her and constantly try to pick fights with her. Then she seems to chill out a bit and they start to mend bridges while Sal still doesn’t know about their shared history. Then she starts seeing her brother while still withholding this information. Then Sal finally puts the pieces together. Like that looks absolutely horrific without the context the readers have why would you even entertain the notion of apologizing to this person.
They’re going to have a private one-on-one boxing match! Too bad we’ll never know the outcome.
Roller Derby!!!
Okay, that last panel? Nothing good can come of this. Something funny? Almost certainly but nothing good!
And the outlet is….Gunpla Battle!
Next season of Build Fighters should be interesting!
(Unlike Build Divers).
OH SHIT
Yes that will surely help. /s
I’m going to assume their outlet will be Mario Kart until proven otherwise.
And thus Amber and Sal started a taco stand as an outlet for their anger.
I just … I mean … I’m glad but I’m also freaking out a lot.
Don’t feel bad; I think Amber is too.
Yeah. God, her face in the 4th panel … I’ve never been EXACTLY where she is but I DO know exactly how that crying feels.
Let the epic video game showdown commence
Really glad to see this outcome. :’)
…Am I the only person slightly bothered by Sal’s “yeah, ah got that”? The word “sorry” can be really hard to summon, and Amber has literally defined herself by that moment, so I dislike that she’s not being positively reinforced for saying it out loud. Again, only slightly bothered.
Good job to these two. C:
I think it’s needed to build up to the “we need an outlet” in the last panel. With those faces Reminding us that Sal is still angry too.
You have to take Sal’s personality into consideration. I suspect that she’s embarrassed and uncomfortable having to deal with others emotional epiphanies; dealing with her own is hard enough. I suspect that a certain rough-but-cheerful friendliness is the most we can realistically expect from her.
Because Sal hasn’t been ridiculously accommodating of Amber enough already.
Sal doesn’t owe Amber an apology. SHE’S THE ONE DOING THE FORGIVING
I didn’t mean to say that Sal owes Amber an apology at all. I meant that Amber’s “I’m sorry” was dismissed a little bit there, and I didn’t care for that fact.
I get it though. Sal’s been wonderful in this scene. It’s just a pet peeve.
I think Sal’s still more than a little miffed if you really asked her – she’s just trying to move forward now.
Is she talking about epic hate fucks?
That powerful use of red panels, damn.
hate-best friend combat sparing?
hate f8king?
PROGRESS!
New Slipshine: “Sal and Amber Need An Outlet”
“Danny has no idea what awaits him tonight!”
Incest is less terrible if it’s a three way!
Don’t bring Walky into this!
Would that be a bad thing?
OUTLET SHE SAYS
WE FINALLY REACHIN THE STEAMY HATESEX
So if Sal’s out of the punching game, is the outlet Mario Kart?
So… who’s gonna be the sidekick?
This would be a lot more powerful for me if Amber had had to make any effort whatsoever and not just had Sal drop this reconciliation in her lap through no work of her own. This arc was really soured for me by its clueless adherence to tired forgiveness tropes without consideration for their wider context and what they imply.
Bright side I guess, next time I’m worried about the direction Willis is going with a plot line I hope I don’t have to listen to people telling me to trust him because he’s socially conscious enough not to make whatever blunder I’m concerned about.
Is literally every comment you post going to be how much you’re disappointed Amber isn’t a groveling mess in every comic?
Cool it with the hyperbole. Amber hasn’t done anything to make amends for how she’s treated Sal I hardly think it’s ridiculous to feel like she should have done something before being granted forgiveness. She didn’t even offer an apology until after the fact.
I think Sal may feel different. In previous comics we’ve seen Amber/Amazi-girl (before their personalities got way more split) do things that suggested Amber was offering herself up for punishment… picking a fight with Sal in the parking lot (when she was at a disadvantage), asking Sal to ‘end her’ during her fight.
Granted, its not Amber saying “I’m sorry”, but in a twisted (and admittedly self-destructive way) she is admitting that she has wronged Sal.
I gotta say, I’m in a weird space because this outcome was extremely impressive for Sal. She showed a lot of growth and maturity here try to be above her own anger. Other than that though, I agree that Sal had to basically carry Amber through this reconciliation and it’s unfair that she had to.
I’m especially disappointed to see how much people think Sal owes Amber so much over what happened 5 years ago but Amber apparently owes Sal so little over what happened…the past couple of months.
Or some of us aren’t thinking in terms of who owes who more or who is obligated to do what, but in terms of how best for Sal to achieve her goal of de-escalating/making peace once she established that was her goal.
Sure, we can argue that it should have been Amber reaching out to her first and the Sal should have just waited until that happened, but then we’d still be waiting and risking more fights and escalation in the interim.
You can justify it all you want within the narrative but it doesn’t change the fact that this trope of marginalized people granting unearned forgiveness to people who harm them has unpleasant connotations in a wider societal context. Whether or not it works in the context of the story is kinda moot when my problem is that it furthers the harmful expectation in our society that marginalized people just have to be the bigger person and put up with mistreatment.
I get where you’re coming from, truly, but still, some of the reactions to this arc have been lopsided. I’m sorry for coming after you personally that time but things like the fight (that both of them had a hand in initiating) being summed up as “the time Sal choked amber” feels super gross to me. I’ve said a lot that I wanted Sal to do better. I wanted their first encounter to be more like this than the fight on the stairs. But it feels like lots of people believe that acknowledging Amber’s issues and wanting both of them to do better are mutually exclusive, so they’ll just focus on amber’s issues.
Do you notice how this puts so much more responsibility and pressure on the woc to be perfect in facilitating a reconciliation that involves wrongdoing on both parts? And that you’ve consistently argued that the white woman doesn’t have to do anything?
Whenever someone mentions that Amber’s wronged Sal, you have a tendency to exaggerate that into them saying “Sal’s done nothing wrong”, which is not an argument anyone has said. Even here, literally all that is being said is that Amber could at least do something instead of being given this reconciliation through no effort of her own. But, no, instead Sal has to be the one to do all the emotional labor and be the mature one, because reasons.
In the larger context where marginalized people are expected to absolve people who harmed them with absolutely no effort on their part, it’s gross. And you’re feeding into that, dude.
“Sal has to do all the emotional labor and be the mature one” sounds like a microcosm for a lot of things that went wrong with her life.
Oh, for sure. And its absolutely a symptom of the ever-present racial dynamics in Sal’s life. WOC, especially black women, constantly get hit with this pressure to perform free emotional labor and put in all the work when it comes to relationships, and to maintain constant control of their emotions especially when it comes to interactions with white people, and anything less and they get hit with the “angry black woman” label.
Before anyone pops in, no, I’m not saying Sal was done nothing wrong or that she can’t be criticized. Just that there are meta contexts that definitely play into what is happening here and the expectation of Sal’s attitudes and behaviors vs the expectations for Amber.
Hell, right now, I’m thinking of the time Walky came to ‘apologize’ to Sal after she told him about their parents. I put apologize in quotes because Walky did absolutely nothing of the kind, despite SAYING he was there to apologize. Never did the words ‘I apologize’ or ‘I’m sorry’ come out of his mouth and he didn’t acknowledge what he did wrong, except in the vague general sense of ‘I haven’t been a good brother to you’. Which he follows up by saying he wants to be a good brother now – to Billie. Sal takes it in the spirit he intended (that he wants to be a better brother and knows he’s messed that up) but still. No wonder the poor girl isn’t very good at talking things out if that’s the level of communication she’s used to (well, that and her own issues meaning her abilities of emotional understanding and communication are at ‘stinky baby’ level).
Perhaps we’re all not really hearing what the others are saying. You’re hearing me say that Sal has to do it all and Amber doesn’t have to do anything. I’m hearing plenty of “Amber is a monster who doesn’t deserve anything.”
Maybe it would have been a better story all along if Amber wasn’t so screwed up and was in a place where she could reach out and Sal was the more messed up one who couldn’t take the first steps, but that’s a completely different story and would have had to have been set up differently from years back.
You are vastly overstating the inevitability of this shitty racist trope within this narrative. This outcome could have been avoided literally in yesterday’s strip without a significant amount of fuss and it only gets easier as you move back. The fact that I haven’t spent the last like 3 months gnashing my teeth and cursing Willis is proof enough that this wasn’t the obvious plot mandated outcome here.
It could certainly have been avoided by Sal not doing it.
I suppose it could have been avoided by Amber apologizing first, but I think that would have needed more build up for it to have not seemed out of character. Maybe it could have worked just with Amber getting more revelations during the fight and after, instead of keeping the focus on Sal.
Maybe I’m missing some obvious approach that would have worked.
Again, Amber should have. Sal shouldn’t have had to. Not sure what else to say.
There’s not really anything more to say. Willis kinda screwed this up in my eyes and I’m thoroughly unimpressed with this bit of writing.
just gonna gloss entirely over the issue of race, huh
clever
It also could have been done with Amber being affected by what Sal was saying about appearances and any sort of comment acknowledging stalking her was wrong. Even if she couldn’t say she was sorry first, that would have been something.
I don’t think it would take Sal being the more messed up one for ‘Sal makes the first move in reconciling when Amber’s done more crap to Sal recently and hasn’t made any overtures on making up with that’ to be a bad idea.
Yeah, even right now you are clearly not at all hearing what I am saying considering you keep ignoring the context of “marginalized people being expected to do the majority of emotional labor and absolve the actions of the person who hurt them who put forth no effort in reconciliation” that has been repeatedly said to you. Even now you are ignoring the fact that you have repeatedly had higher expectations for Sal regarding this reconciliation and criticized every single thing she’s done so far for it because she’s not going about it “the best way”, but you clearly do not have the same expectations or criticisms for Amber, who is an equal party in this situation. You also keep bringing up how Sal choked Amber in the fight, ignoring literally everything that Amber had done in that fight to Sal including kicking her down the stairs.
And again, given the entire context of racial dynamics and white privilege that have affected every part of Sal and Amber’s relationship thus far and had significant affects on their storylines, it’s completely flooring how you cannot see the correlation between that and what is happening here. This is another symptom of that, where Sal has more expectations put on her to do this entire gesture of peace-making right than Amber does, to the point where people are acting like Sal should just get over what Amber did or that Amber is somehow completely incapable of making reparations to Sal or acknowledging the things she’s done because she’s mentally ill. That is not at all fair to Sal in any way, shape, or form.
And to be explicitly clear so there’s no chance of being misunderstood: I am not saying that Sal is perfect or hasn’t done anything wrong to Amber. There are mistakes she’s made and things that she’s done that she should acknowledge and make reparations for.
But Amber has wronged Sal too, though.
And there is a wider meta context of marginalized, particularly black women, having so many more expectations put on them to perform free emotional labor and to forgive their aggressors, even when they have not shown any sign of remorse or made any attempt at peace-making themselves. And all of their efforts at doing so are scrutinized much more closely than the shitty non-efforts of other people, because hey! They’re just more mature. They have better control of their emotions. It’s a shitty, harmful attitude and trope that keeps getting perpetuated.
Sal is not, in fact, any more mature than Amber. They’re the same age. So why is Sal held to a higher expectation to be reasonable and emotionally mature than Amber? It’s not all because of Amber’s mental illness. There are meta contexts why people read Sal like that.
You don’t understand, Amber is traumatized which apparently means she is a literal toddler psychologically and thus incapable of taking responsibility for her actions.
The fact is that Sal is more able to start the reconciliation process than Amber because Amber’s mental and emotional conditions are so much more delicate. It isn’t a case that I think Sal ‘owes’ anything to Amber; it’s just that she’s really the only person who can take the first few necessary steps.
Nah I’m not willing to infantilize Amber to the point where I don’t even expect her to be capable of at the very least a simple apology especially since she just showed that she is.
Amber has issues, but she’s a big girl. She’s responsible for herself. She didn’t need Sal to use kid gloves or debase herself with underserved apologies.
It demeans both characters to expect Sal to have gone even further while expecting absolutely nothing from Amber.
This is where I’m at now too. I think Sal’s shown a lot of maturity in recognizing the cyclical nature of her lashing out and escalating (and that sometimes biting her friends in the ass) and is trying to get a hold of her anger. I’m also very proud of how much compassion she’s capable of, but that’s not a new trait.
I’m proud of Amber too. I know it’s got to be hard to make peace with Sal and to apologize here, and I think this is a great first step.
That said, I agree that the comments have been…iffy at times (my favourite are the ones who blame Sal for the fight, when BOTH OF THEM agreed it’s what they wanted. Apparently Sal wanting to fight makes it her fault, but Amber wanting to fight doesn’t make it equally her fault, because according to the comments ‘Sal’s in a better frame of mind to make that decision’ – Yeah, ’cause Sal wasn’t acting at least in part out of trauma and fury at all. This whole ‘she’s more mature’ argument is bullshit when it comes to who’s culpable for the fight).
And, in the larger media context, it’s hard not to see Emily’s point. Amber didn’t apologize here, Sal forgave her because she realized A) The cycle leading up to the robbery and B) That Amber/AG is really messed up about wanting to fight fairly with her and get hurt. Amber had to make no effort to reconcile. When marginalized characters tend to forgive people who hurt them without the person having to work for it is a larger problem in media in general and that does make me wince.
Now, I dunno where Willis is going with this. Maybe the fact Amber didn’t have to work for Sal to forgive her will come back later, when AG thinks Sal’s still her sidekick. Maybe Amber will slide further because PTSD, anxiety, etc. don’t go away like magic and then she and Sal will have an argument where Sal reminds her she didn’t work for that. Maybe this will bite her relationship with Walky in the ass. I don’t know what Willis has planned, even if this is optimistic for now. Who knows? But as it stands, I have to see Emily’s point.
Like, maybe Willis is going somewhere less gross with this but this is a trope I’m not really inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to be proven wrong here but this narrative has so far been pretty fucking textbook in it’s implementation of it.
Yeah, I completely understand. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst is usually pretty good thinking.
Emily, your responses to this entire arc have been a less conflicted version of my own and I thank you for that. It’s disappointing and gross that there are still people who think Sal should apologize first, either because “she started it!” or because “she’s more capable of it” or “Amber is actually really sorry because see how much she’s suffered”. Sal has been the bigger person above and beyond what was required of her to be and has got no reparations for the harm done to her. Is it still a good thing that she forgave Amber? Yes it is–it’s independent closure for herself, and it’s a kindness to a mentally ill person who needed to hear it. But make no mistake, this is still a WOC giving unearned absolution to a white woman who has harmed her with direct intent and malice. That Sal is capable of it indicates character growth and complexity, but that the plot required her to understand Amber’s baggage and accommodate it like this is a tired reiteration of an unjust cliche.
Like people forget that these aren’t actual real human beings with agency making real decisions. Their choices and circumstances are all entirely dictated by the white guy writing the story and the fact that he chose to write it this way is not great.
My girls…Sal and Amber…making amends…
*Sniff*
I’m so proud of them!
Darn this is kinda sweet. It’s a start for these two to make amends and what better way to work on that than some tag-team vigilantism?
Or maybe even just parkour across Bloomington’s skyline all night!
Nah, I really hope that this can grow into them stopping the AmaziGirl business. Sal recognised that it was unhealthy ages ago and Amber has wanted to stop, too, just AmaziGirl wouldn’t let her.
I don’t think Amber will really get better until AmaziGirl stops — and vice versa? If Amber is better, AmaziGirl isn’t needed.
Amber and Amazigirl both need to learn that its not as simple as Amazigirl good Amber bad. They also need to realize that Amazigirl is not just there to protect the world from Amber.
Amazigirl needs to learn to do things besides play superhero and needs to learn not to use superheroics as an excuse to beat people up.
Yeah, pretty much this.
Thanks its amazing what I learned reading this comics forum.
I’m half thinking that this might lead into a very intense game of Mario Kart.
Or Pokémon Let’s Go.
“Man, it’s been ages since ah last played this!”
“I’m still not talking to you for choosing Eevee!”
The outlet is Mario kart
Sal, if you’re going where I think you’re going with this, almost all vibrators run on batteries.
The really powerful ones plug into the wall.
Enlightened answer: They join a sports team. Roller Derby perhaps.
Less enlightened answer: They travel around beating up all of the bad parents in this comic.
I’ve always imagined that a DoA epilogue (narrated by Joyce) will include this line: “As for Sal and Amber…? Well, all I can say is that Indianapolis is… protected.” The panel shows an adult Amazi-Girl and Sal in very professional super-suits, standing in heroic poses on top of a sky-scraper, back-lit by the full moon.
Man, I’m hoping for the first. I really feel like the AmaziGirl business needs to stop for Amber to get better; maybe whatever understanding Sal and and Amber have can help keep Amber at the forefront and push AmaziGirl back.
(I remember Amber already wanted to stop AmaziGirl, but then AmaziGirl just went out without Amber’s knowledge.)
That’s still not how DID works.
Amber and Amazi-Girl have to work something out. Something that doesn’t involve “stopping Amazi-Girl”. It may involve Amazi-Girl stopping the crime-fighting, but that’s somewhat different.
For some reason, I can see Sal occasionally having conversations with someone who looks a lot like Amber but answers to the name ‘Maisie’.
Also I think Amber sees Amazigirl’s existence as an attempt to redeem her. So Amber wanting rid of Amazigirl is just her wanting everyone to give up on her. Amber is not trying to reclaim her life so much as saying so you think you can help me no one can.
I honestly hope its roller derby and not just video games. Since amber already plays video games that doesnt look like its been preventing her from vigilantism…
“We need roller derby.”
Next, they MERGE TO FORM BRUTICUS
Some mixed feelings about this (tho I’m glad it went well for Sal’s sake, and that Amber’s trying to accept other people’s feelings more) but the thing that keeps sticking for me is that it makes the fight scene feel kinda pointless? Like, as soon as Sal had a chance to process everything she knows about Amber/Amazi-girl, she immediately chose to forgive. It feels like that could’ve just as easily happened if Amber had just listened to Ethan when he said talking to Sal went well and decided to face her nonviolently too. It would’ve been harder for Amber, but it might’ve made the forgiveness feel more earned.
But a big part of that was the revelation she had in the fight itself, right before she let go of the chokehold.
Ehh, Sal’s been repeatedly shown to be a thoughtful and self-aware person. I’m not convinced that if Amber had just talked to her she wouldn’t have come to the same realization, especially since she already recognized a lot of her own bad behavior in Amazi-girl.
Thoughtful yes, self-aware…not as self-aware as she thinks is, not by a long shot.
Your conviction that Sal is arrogant is bizarre.
She certainly shows plenty of arrogant traits yes but this was about self-awareness. She doesn’t realize she has the best, most important priviledge there is and thats money. Instead of reform school (or whatever the USA has) she went to boarding school, shes going to college and doesn’t seem to have work an extra job, like some to afford it, and was quite dismissive of Marcie working as security.
Everything she did for Marcie, the going without, the committing crimes did Marcie ever actually want Sal to do any of that or did Sal just decide to, would Marcie have even accepted the money knowing it came from crime
How helpful was Sal to Joyce after Joyce was drugged, Sal decided, based on her experience that going to police was a bad idea and to take the law into your hands was a better idea, at the very least Joyce may have gotten some therapy
Shes, luckily, doing very well here but shes still just a teenager and has a lot of growing up to do (like most of the cast)
Dude, Sal does not have access to nearly enough money to negate being a black woman with a criminal record in America and it borders on straight up delusion to think otherwise. And it sounds like her boarding school was a reform school in all but name.
She was a 13 year old wracked with guilt over her perceived responsibility for her friend being crippled who tried to help through legal means and had the fruits of that effort stolen. I think cutting her a bit of slack for desperation fueled terrible decision making wouldn’t be out of order. Also, that was 5 years ago anyway so it’s not particularly reasonable to hold that against her now.
I mean Sal was entirely right about Joyce’s situation. A sexual assault claim with no witnesses besides the victim and no evidence will get exactly nowhere in the American legal system and would just open Joyce up to a lot of secondary trauma as she’s forced to relive the incident while being doubted the whole time. Not to mention it could have opened her up to an assault charge as well.
Sal has a record? I thought she got sent to boarding school. so as to specifically not have a record which I’m assuming is something that happens if you have either money or influence
I understand why she did what she did but it that doesn’t change her lack of self awareness in the situation at all. and while it was 5 years it points to it being one of her traits
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/bat/
I’m not sure how much of this Sarah heard but she certainly saw Ryan grabbing and holding Joyce so I’ll take Sarahs opinion on the matter, someone that was actually there, over Sals who wasn’t
Yep. Sal being a black kid with a record is specifically why she avoided the police after the Toedad fiasco.
There’s room to talk about whether Marcie’d have taken the money from the robbery, but there’s no good reason why she wouldn’t have taken Sal up on the legally gotten money. Sure, Marcie doesn’t seem too thrilled Sal’s punishing herself for what happened, but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t take the money for surgery. Especially since it seems like Marcie’s own parents were trying to raise the money (Sal wouldn’t have been able to set up the fundraiser herself, legally – you have to be 18 for gofundme and that’s what the site is based on. I imagine the site requires some sort of proof, so that’s probably not something she could have bullshit either).
As for Ryan, yeah, Sarah saw him with Joyce and probably overheard him. How’s she gonna prove it? Meanwhile, Ryan does have proof he was assaulted, which is something Sal pointed out. They waited until the drugs were out of her system because Joyce didn’t want to go to the hospital and after that, they didn’t have much to go on besides the group’s word it happened – which means exactly jack and shit in a lot of sexual assault cases.
Yeah, she mentioned it after the Becky car chase. Then Amazi-girl mocked her about it because she’s a dick like that.
I don’t think I’ve ever known a self-aware 13 year old that’s not a character trait that’s part of being 13. It’s like saying being immature is a character trait based on them being immature when they were 13.
Imma be blunt here: Sarah was wrong. She puts too much faith in established power structures and all reporting Joyce’s assault to the police without any physical evidence would have accomplished is forcing Joyce to relive it in excruciating detail over and over while being met with skepticism because of her admittedly foggy recollection. Young white men with “promising futures” don’t eat sexual assault charges without overwhelming proof and sometimes not even then.
Not quite true Emily – them going to the cops would’ve ALSO resulted in, bare minimum, Sarah being arrested and charged with assault and battery, since, as Sal pointed out, she’d be volunteering she assaulted a guy and it’s well and good for Dorothy to talk about trying proper channels when she’s not the one who was holding the bat. Sarah was willing to risk it. Joyce wasn’t.
Ah right forgot that part.
She’s not perfect, sure, but I’d still say she’s better in that department than most of the cast. And again, given she’s already recognized her own bad habits and behavior in Amazi-girl, I’d say she certainly has enough self-awareness to recognize the same in Amber without needing that fight to convince her.
Shes getting there yes
+1 for Mario Kart!
And that is how Amber became the terror of the professional roller derby circuit.
welll….there goes the last chance of this universe peacefully surviving. Sal and Amber, ‘blowing off steam’.
Is there anyone likely to survive this?
YES SAL
An outlet like Roller Derby!
I want to see Emily and Amber go kill spiders together.
I, for one, was grievously disappointed it took as long as sixty seconds for the phrase “Roller Derby” to appear in these comments.
So there’s something that’s been nagging at me over the course of this story line, and I’m not sure how to express it, because I don’t want to come off as extolling the virtues of Enlightened Centrism or dismiss anyone else’s concerns about the direction of the story or their own similar lived experiences.
I don’t doubt that in fiction and reality, the onus is shoved onto racial minorities to be the bigger person, to forgive without an apology, to carry the emotional load. And that’s terrible and distressing and sounds exhausting, and while I hope this isn’t the end of the exploration of Sal and Amber’s weird interactions and emotions regarding the past and present, I’m sure that doesn’t clear out the bad taste that this current resolution has to leave. I can’t imagine how tiring it is to see that sort of thing time and again, only to be told “wait and see” over and over. I’m sure a lot of the comments on this arc must seem like a slap in the face from that perspective.
But I’ve seen a trend that troubles me in the opposite direction, regarding the reaction to Amber. Admittedly, I relate to her strongly as another seriously mentally ill, traumatized child of abuse with a comic obsession (and I don’t mean to suggest that Sal isn’t abused and traumatized as well), but a lot of the reaction to Amber’s side of the story has seemed scarily black and white to me.
There have been comments saying that Amber’s appropriating Ethan’s trauma, that Sal only “scared” Amber during the robbery, that if Ethan forgives Sal, Amber has no right to have any of her own feelings about it. That’s not how trauma works, and seeing that, stupid as it sounds, has made me feel like I’m somehow in the wrong for having problems coping with my memories of seeing others suffer.
Amber’s illness has become so severe that she’s having dissociative episodes where she can’t remember what she’s been doing. Her panic attacks have become more frequent. She faced an assailant with a knife again very recently and started a new spiral of self-hatred after turning the knife on the other person again. And yes, it’s absolutely wrong to put all the burden of being the bigger person and being rational onto Sal, but Amber shouldn’t be the one to shoulder it all either. Neither of them should have to be dealing with this, now or in their pasts. They’re kids, and they were failed by the people who were supposed to love and protect them the most.
I’ve been so sick and full of self-hatred that I had to have come off as narcissistic and self-obsessed. I’ve gone through periods of depression and anxiety so severe and all-encompassing that I was awful to others and lashed out constantly, because all I could focus on was staying alive and in my messed up brain, somehow, being as horrible as I was was the only way to do that. That doesn’t make the things I did right, and I wouldn’t blame my friends if they had given up and left. I’ve apologized as I healed. But when I was so low, I didn’t apologize. I was so busy trying to hold the pieces of myself together that I never thought to.
And maybe I’m infantalizing Amber by thinking that way. Maybe it comes off like I think that people with mental illness shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, even if they’re violent. But I don’t mean it that way. I see Amber as a danger to herself and to others. I think she should be hospitalized, if only briefly, because when you’re that unstable and that convinced that you’re a monster, it starts to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I’m glad she hasn’t been hospitalized, both because it would make Ryan’s parents’ lawsuit a sure win for them and also because I’m sure she wouldn’t go willingly and mentally ill people have a high risk of being killed by police after bystanders call the cops due to suicidal, violent, or erratic behaviors, but she needs serious help. She’s literally not in control of herself sometimes and even if it is infantalizing, I don’t think she can truly start to deal with the things she’s done to others until she has a better grip on herself.
Again, I don’t want to minimize Sal’s pain. I don’t want to say Amber is blameless or that her behaviors have been justified. But some of this discussion has seemed to me like it would be fine to shift all of the burden onto Amber as if her mental illness is just something she can shrug off. Amber’s privileged in many ways that Sal isn’t, and that’s absolutely affected their interactions, but she’s also part of an extremely vulnerable minority group, and I just wish it were easier to acknowledge her issues and struggles without dismissing Sal’s.
I’m sorry things haven’t going well, Lauralot. I’ve felt the same way a few times on here – like, Amber was a lot more than scared. She was traumatized in that robbery too. She doesn’t handle it well sometimes and yes, she can be controlling of Ethan’s reaction sometimes, but there’s no ‘must be THIS bad to count’ threshold on trauma. I wouldn’t fault her if she’d told Sal to get out of her room instead of apologizing.
I feel like in the comments there’s been a real problem with people feeling like if they like one of these two, the other must be bad and unreasonable. It seems like lately a lot of otherwise great commenters can’t seem to support what one of the girls says without shitting on the other. That’s been bugging me for a while. I’m sure there’ve been times I’ve come off that way myself, but yeah. They’re both really messed up by trauma and I don’t think it’s fair to try to turn it into some sort of competition.
PS – You’re cool. I like your tumblr.
Thank you! I’m just hoping my Tumblr survives the purge.
If not, that’s what AO3 is for, I guess. I guess there’s still a few weeks for them to walk it back, but tumblr likes to double down, so we’ll see. I don’t even know how to find all my flagged posts since I’ve already noticed two (neither of which were even remotely NSFW) and I have waaaaay too many posts to scroll through them all.
I saw a windsurfing photo flagged as adult. I truly think at this point they’re just flagging anything with an image.
I saw someone who works in tech who suggested it’s an auto filter that tags anything with a certain amount of flesh coloured* pixels
* = I’ll give you three guesses WHO’S flesh colour and the first two don’t count.
Tumblr always manages to live down to expectations, it seems.
They’re trying.
Very trying.
My stance has never been “Amber vs. Sal” it’s been “Amber is becoming increasingly unstable and dangerous and nobody is doing anything about it” and her conflict with Sal is just the most obvious expression of that problem at the moment. Like, there comes a point where you have to accept that one person’s safety/emotional comfort simply does not outweigh the safety of the people they are endangering with their actions. Amazi-girl could have killed or seriously injured multiple people during the car chase with Becky (including Becky) and the only real reason she didn’t was narrative convenience.
I don’t get the alt-text. Could someone give me a hint or explanation please?
This is the second last strip of the story arc.
oh no the ones with people going to bed don’t end dramatically except that one time with booze.
Maybe what Sal means in the last panel is that they’re going to go and punch everyone in the cast unconscious.
Those are the end of books, not storylines.
i’m so hopeful but so nervous
“We have battled…. We are now friends…!”
(I dont think too many didn’t see this coming?)