The week of Holy Crap It’s Christmas Now is nigh upon us, so I’ve put up last year’s batch of Book 6 Kickstarter magnets in the online store!
A set of 10 Dumbing of Age character magnets, it includes Joyce, Becky, Sal, Galasso, Joe, Jacob, Robin, Leslie, Monkey Master, and Dexter. (I have about five each of Dina, Carla, and Jocelyne remaining, and I need to keep those for unforseen emergencies and such, so those three will not be available.) Most are about 4″ tall, but they vary. Galasso, for example, is quite a bit larger! He’s a big guy.
You can also buy the three magnet sets together as a bundle. While supplies last!
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“only totally fucked me up as a person forever, yeah… I guess just the one tho… how ’bout you”
too bad Amazi-Girl isn’t here, she’s immune to criticism
Well, I mean, her dad had a role in that too…
Yeah, but that’s the point, right? “Did your parents do anything at all?” Reply, see Ana’s comment.
Ah, I was taking it as a response to “Stole nothing, hurt nobody.”
no comments about Joker? Michael Keaton Batman? hello??
Oh, nevermind. Sal being literally punched down a staircase barely mattered at all. Carry on
she slid on the railguard
In fairness, she slid down the banister, which would do less overall damage compared to an ass-over-teakettle tumble down the steps.
Kind of a little bit of no considering they split up afterwords so I guess your right there. But how about we don’t bring up family because I think the last thing Amber wants to think about is her abusive deadbeat mob boss of a father.
You’re assuming that Sal is aware of that.
Yeah she doesn’t and that’s the problem. Why assume straight this person who barely know has had a better life than you.
She IS phrasing it as a question.
And she’s not really asking whether Amber’s life was all sunshine and puppies forever, she’s asking if there was any direct repercussions of Amber’s assault on her.
As to why she’s assuming there wasn’t: Sal’s worldview is kind of based on the (*cough-correct-cough*) notion that the world isn’t fair and she isn’t being held against the same standard as others. Assuming Amber was not held accountable for stabbing her fits in to that. And the implication is that if the roles were reversed Sal would have been punished much more harshly.
It really feels like a rhetorical question.
That’s the problem with omniscient readers. They think they know everything.
I don’t think it’s entirely a rhetorical question. I think its supposed to be an Armor-Piercing Question. Sal has already shown she’s highly sensitive to instances of racial bias, and I would guess perceives this as another one. She’s also had years to think about the incident and wonder about the girl that stabbed her and what happened. This question is essentially a win-win for Sal. From her viewpoint, either nothing happened to Amber as punishment and Amber feels guilty and loses focus in the fight, or Amber did get punished and Sal gets some vindication. The worst outcome for her is that Amber is a sociopath who got away with it and doesn’t care that she shouldn’t have, but even a cursory read of Amber’s character (including in Amazi-Girl mode) shows that’s unlikely.
Sal, of course, doesnt know just how bad Amber’s reality is. Which makes me think this win-win question is going to backfire on Sal when Amber answers.
My dad yelled at me for failing to stop you. But they did nothing, nothing to stop this from happening to me.
I don’t think it’s intended to throw Amber off guard in any kind of calculated way. I think it’s Sal being angry, getting out the question she really wanted to get out. As you said, she knows she’s been unfairly punished, and she’s probably wondered what (if any) repercussions came about on the other side. But it’s not a win-win, it’s Sal’s trauma speaking through her.
But it’s interesting to see that Sal seems incapable of understanding that she did do damage by her actions. That she did hurt people. She sees injustice in the world but can only see herself as a victim in it. Look at the things she says to Mikayla. That she’s stealing her best friend.
I assume you mean Malaya?
I follow what you’re saying but I think Sal’s sentiment is still fair and might have been better phrased as I didn’t injure rather than hurt.
Also, though, that wasn’t a result of something Amber did. She went unpunished for stabbing someone. She didn’t go unpunished in life, but that’s not what Sal’s talking about.
Ignoring both of Sal’s abusive and demeaning parents who treated her like shit for literally her entire life.
I’m glad I had something ready and copy pasted ready to go because I knew this was going to be one of the many responses. Meet me further down the comment section.
The big thing though is that Sal doesn’t know anything about Amber’s life. All she does know is that some crazy girl stabbed her when she was down and her life was basically ruined. And I can guarantee that most people wouldn’t be pondering the how hard the life was of a person who has stabbed them, especially finding out that they go to a nice college and has been parading around as a simple of truth and justice.
Now I don’t want it to seem that I’m saying that Sal is in the right for doing what she’s doing, but what I am saying is that her position and actions are understandable from a character point of view. And it’s not like Amber is doing anything to help defuse the situation either, and is as much of an instigator at this point as Sal is.
Yeah, basically – both of them have very good reasons for behaving badly, but are nevertheless behaving badly.
I know Sal doesn’t know about Amber that’s the problem. She doesn’t know but she’s throwing out assumptions anyway.
I see what your getting at but there’s not a lot of people here that are saying Amber didn’t do anything to make this hole ordeal worse and I’m pretty sure Amber herself would think that too knowing where her heads at. But I’m not trying to downplay either one of their suffering either, to do that would be insensitive and kind of callous and that kind of feels like what Sals doing right now. Sal doesn’t put a lot of thought about what happens to the people who get caught up in the wake of her choices which is why Marcie is pissed at her. Collateral damage remember?
@Bluesnake462: Of course Amber knows nothing about Sal’s life either. As far as she knew, she was nothing but some petty crook who threatened her friend and traumatized her.
And frankly, Sal’s “stole nothing, hurt nobody” rings a bit hollow. I mean, she’s technically right, but she was trying to steal and she did threaten to kill Ethan. Even if she never meant to, putting a knife to someone’s throat is risky as hell.
and In the moment there’s no way Ethan or Amber could know that she didn’t intend anything.
“Amber knows nothing about Sal’s life either”
Amber knows that she very likely crippled Sal. Sal does not know her actions contributed to Amber’s continuing psychosis.
Except that Sal’s shown no signs of being crippled in front of Amber (or Amazi-Girl), so even now that she’s interacted with Sal again (after years to build her up as a monster in her head), she still had no reason to think that.
It’s true, but Sal hides it well.
It doesn’t matter that Sal hides it. My point was Amber knows she stabbed Sal while Sal does not know and has no reason to know that she’s personally harmed Amber in any way.
Ethan like, just confronted Sal about how she hurt him.
She was excited about it because he was kind. To follow that by fighting Amber is not… great.
She brought up being defenseless, but, uh… so was the actual victim when she attacked him in the first place
Oh you don’t know half of it.
I know the answer…but I’m asking you the question!–Duran Duran
Now now all we need is Marcie and Carla to round this off
Not to mention Walky!
Marcie would definitely be done with Sal’s agressive behavior and Walky wouldn’t listen to his sister if he knows she beated down his girlfriend. Sal would be the most affected one.
The only way it would go even slighter easier would be if Marcie realized Sal wasn’t covering her scar anymore and realized who Amber was, but that would be…difficult. Best case scenario, Sal’s going to have a much much harder time proving to Marcie she’s trying.
I think Walky might lose Amber if he treats this as 100% Sal’s fault.
What we know about Amber makes me think she will take Sal’s side after the fight if there is nothing like a resolution.
Walky knowing Amazi-Girl’s identity seems like it’d change that. He knows superheroes beat up good guys before every team-up.
Slipshine ensues
mike steps in, *shames* sal and amber into reason, leading to history’s first hatethreeway
And Dina. It feels too long since we saw her.
But she is there. Even if YOU didn’t see her, she’s still there.
Someone hasn’t been reading this comic at all. Wake up Sal! Of course not!
Oooh, and there’s an audience.
Yeah. Don’t sleep on this. Witnesses mean consequences. It maybe three people they know personally now but soon it could be a crowd. Very stupid to do this in public.
At least, they all already know amber is amazigirl.
Which is a pretty big coincidence if you think about it. Are there no other people in this building?
Also this just adds to the ever increasing chance Marcie is still around to see this. So y’know, prepare for that heartbreak.
That’s a bigger blessing than it seems. Consider the alternative: people see the motorcycle-and-leather black girl beating up a nerdy white girl who may or may not be the vaunted campus superhero. I fear witnesses will NOT side with Sal.
And we certainly know that Walky won’t.
This entire storyline is about consequences. We’re just warming up.
Stupid? It’s not like they planned this out.
Whether they planned to have a fight is kind of irrelevant. They both CHOSE to engage. Sal could’ve walked away instead of throwing the first punch. Amber could’ve apologized instead of assuming Sal was aggressive and spouting off her edgy backstory. They both chose to start this, in public, with witnesses. Not a smart decision. Honestly that’s how the few fights I’ve witnessed in life usually are.
Are they gonna…. beat eachother up and form a tenuous friendship?
Seems like they’re doing that superhero team up in reverse. We had the fight a common enemy before, now we’re moving backwards to “fight each other before realizing we’re not so different after all”
So, patreon last night was full of people who read this as Sal dodging that what she did was wrong. Respectfully, I don’t think that’s quite what she’s saying here.
The way I read it, she’s not saying what she did was okay because nobody got (physically) hurt. I think her point is that, even though nobody got (physically) hurt and she was no longer a threat, Amber didn’t face any sanction (legally or parentally) for stabbing someone through the hand.
Which, y’know what? It’s definitely not a nice thing to say, but it is a valid point.
I’d say something inflamatory like “white priviledge” but the truth is actually much worse……Blaine is awful….and maybe even a criminal.
Let’s not forget that part of the reason Sal performed the robbery in the first place was because of the white privilege against Marcie.
I think it’s more that Sal got shipped off to a reform school for the robbery, but the girl that stabbed her in the hand seemed to not get punished by the legal system whatsoever. Given her suspicion of racism within her own parents, you know she’s seeing this as yet another white girl getting off scot-free while the black girl gets sent up the river.
I think if Sal hadn’t been the person who was stabbed, she’d absolutely think the victims of a robbery should be able to stab the person who did it.
*I* think you have some very strange opinions.
Probably. Mind you I have been stabbed and forgave the people involved.
I’ll alert the Vatican to start processing your sainthood.
That was uncalled for.
Sal strangles a guy for tripping her best friend after the fact, given that was a reaction to realizing he would face no consequences while she and Marcy would be punished.
Sal has a pretty formidable guilt complex. I’d say exonerating herself is the opposite of in-character. (Basically good read, and I agree with you.)
I think Sal has a black and white view of the world, actually. Because what she did was for a good cause, Amber opposing her made her evil. Sal also misses that as a black woman involved in a robbery with a dangerous weapon she got off INCREDIBLY light in the system she continuously puts down.
Catholic School was a privilege where I was from, particularly for non-Catholics.
oh my god are you saying sal can’t complain about the amount she was unfairly abused because she wasn’t harmed as much by a racist society as she potentially could have been
Actually, no, I think Sal is trying to pick a fight with a mentally unstable girl that she feels angry at when she promised Marcie she’d descalate. It’s a tragedy and it’s going to ruin a lot of relationships.
you say “actually no” but you’ve, like, repeated your post above at least two other times already on this page
I apologize Willis and will explain my position. Basically, when I wasn’t older than Sal was supposed to be. I got into a fight in the YMCA and was stabbed. I had been confrontational, angry, and threatening. The person I got into a fight with had a history of being scared for his life and believed I was going to do more than just punch him (fights happened all the time in my area of Kentucky). It wasn’t serious and I realized how wrong I’d been. They could have come down hard on him but we both kids and it was a mistake for me to have done what I did.
I learned from my experience in a way I hope Sal does.
We were both expelled from the YMCA, though.
The difference is that AFTER THE SITUATION WAS OVER, Amber came out of nowhere to stab someone that had already been arrested. And then, years later, STALKED, HARRASSED, AND ASSAULTED her.
actually no
C.T. Phillips said actually no because what the way you are characterizing his post is not what he actually said. It should come as no surprise that he repeated the point using different words.
Sal got off light for an attempted robbery and assault with a weapon. Sal can blame her circumstances for treating her unfairly. These are not mutually exclusive.
1. Sal doesn’t know the first thing about Amber’s mental health, to her she seems like a malicious stalker who’s been lying to her as Amazi-Girl.
2. Sal didn’t pick the fight. Amber was the one who went into a fighting stance, the most you can say is Sal didn’t back down.
3. Somehow I feel like Marcie wasn’t counting “don’t confront that girl who stabbed you” when she wanted Sal to practice de-escalation, because it’s a scenario I’m pretty sure neither of them had considered would come up.
4. Sal has a right to be as angry as she is. It will get her in trouble, specially if campus police shows up. But her anger isn’t misdirected, like Amber’s is.
2) Amber seemed to be pretty defensive at first. At the very least, the responsibility for starting this fight is split.
3) I’m pretty damn sure Marcie will count this. Confront sure, brawl with, no.
Marcie doesn’t seem to actually care about context.
If someone stalked me while dressed as Batman, I’d assume they were crazy. In any case, I think Sal’s more upset about the stabbing. Even then, she seems mad at the system more than Amber.
Today you sound like one of those people hellbent on slotting Sal into a box by ignoring everything we’ve seen her say and think. Talk about black and white view of the world…
I suppose I’m bringing my own reaction to being sliced as a child into it. I guess I expected better from Sal because she’s always been a person who has been misjudged so I assume she’d have understood why someone would attack her for threatening their friend.
Certainly, Sal would attack anyone who threatened one of her friends.
She was a kid who made a stupid mistake but I expected more empathy I guess because she’s always been the straightest arrow in the group despite her bad girl reputation. Perhaps the wisest of the dumbing of age cast.
I think you’re ignoring the added context of Amber stalking and assaulting her years after the original incident of which Sal had already been punished for, as well as manipulating and lying to her and getting involved with her twin brother. Like, don’t pretend that Amber didn’t do anything wrong here or that Sal’s just picking on the mentally ill girl she traumatized years ago for no reason.
If Amber hadn’t stalked, harassed, and assaulted her as Amazi-Girl, and later befriending her as both AG and Amber, Sal would probably be more able to empathize with Amber in this situation. But to Sal, right now, it looks like Amber’s been manipulating her this whole time and it’s a massive betrayal, considering all that Sal’s association with Amber has lost her.
Sal is still a kid. They all are, even if by arbitrary laws, they are adults. You don’t magically gain knowledge and emotional balance the minute you hit 18. It takes messing up and learning from your mistakes before you stop doing dumb shit.
I think Sal and Amber both lost their childhoods when they were 13: Amber realizing she had to redirect her rage, and Sal having to make very difficult decisions to help Marcie.
Yeah, absolutely. They were both kids that got put into situations where they had to grow up very quickly and they were both robbed of their childhoods.
it’s also really icky to try and frame her punishment (and basically losing her family, shitty as it was) as a “privilege”.
I went to Catholic School as well. I feel weirdly like my life parallels to Sal with the stabbing and education in a super-strict environment away from my family have made me think very differently from how I’m supposed to feel here.
I apologize for that.
I was a delinquent for what I felt was good cause and got straightened out.
Unless you’re a black woman your life does not parallel Sal’s so stop.
What Sal did was not okay. What Amber did was not okay. What Linda did was not okay. What Blaine did was not okay.
Anyone who makes any one of these statements (whether a fictional person in the comic or a real person in the comment section) does not automatically invalidate the other 3.
The problem here is she explicitly escalated the situation. The clerk literally told her “run out the back this is going to get a lot worse.” Her decision was “I’m going to take a hostage.” aka commit another felony. That she ‘didn’t hurt anyone’ doesn’t matter according to the law.
https://www.wklaw.com/bank-robbery-crimes-in-the-town/
She is trying to frame this as another instance of racism wether she wants to acknowledge it or not.
Not that there isn’t racism involved, but she tried to make peace with Ethan… trying to frame it as “I didn’t hurt him” is a really shitty thing to say when the guy is standing right there. It makes her previous words feel hollow as if she didn’t really mean it.
A) Sal taking a hostage does not make it even remotely acceptable for Amber to stab her while she’s already been disarmed and arrested and is no longer a threat.
B) Not hurting someone won’t lessen the charge of taking a hostage with a deadly weapon but if she’d actually (physically) hurt him, I guarantee it would have been worse.
C) I think it’s pretty clear Sal means physically when she says she didn’t hurt him.
D) Yeah, Amber being white is a factor in her not getting charged with anything for stabbing someone already restrained. Trauma or no, I can almost guarantee Amber would have been charged had she not been white.
A)Salnherself endorses vigilante justice
B) Agree
C) She didn’t physically hurt him, but not for lack of trying
D)Agree
A) Non sequitur. Also not an ENTIRELY accurate assessment of her character (endorses is a strong word) but they key phrase is “no longer a threat”. Also “disarmed”. Also “arrested”.
A) To an extent, yes, when dealing with situations that the police can’t (or won’t) handle. Stabbing someone already arrested and no longer a threat seems like a stretch to call vigilante justice. We’ve also seen Sal having misgivings about AG’s specific brand of vigilante justice (including, yes, when she’s been involved in it – she questions how effective they’re being) so her talk with Joyce is pretty clearly not a blank cheque on vigilantism.
C) We have no indication Sal ever tried to actually use the knife for anything other than threatening Ethan (and, in fact, Ethan explicitly said she didn’t actually use the knife). Taking Ethan hostage is definitely psychologically, emotionally and probably cognitively harmful, but we’ve no indication Sal ever actually tried to physically hurt him.
It seems to me that Sal endorses vigilantism until she’s on the receiving end. She sees the stabbing a robber as wrong she was the robber. She doesn’t approve of following an ex convict around, because she’s the ex convict. If she were in Amber’s shoes and Marcie in Ethan’s, I believe she would have reacted similarly, only without her dad’s encourgement.
You seem to approve of things that aren’t vigilante justice if they happen to be bad for Sal. Seeing as neither of those were vigilante justice.
AG wasn’t looking for justice with Sal, she was looking for a fight to prove to herself she could handle Sal because she desperately needed Sal to be her Joe Chill.
Stabbing Sal was also not vigilante justice. That was because Blaine berated her until she snapped, not out of some sense of desire to punish Sal for her crimes (and even if she had been, Sal had already been arrested and restrained and was no longer a danger) or to defend herself or Ethan.
There’s a big difference between beating the shit out of someone who roofied your friend and is about to rape her with a baseball bat and planning to call the police and take her to the hospital vs stabbing someone who is no longer a threat and is already in the midst of being arrested and getting justice. It’s very easy to approve of one and not the other. Most of the comment section approved of Sarah beating the hell out of Ryan and didn’t approve of Amber stabbing Sal, for instance.
Also (I keep saying that word), C) “not for lack of trying” is also inaccurate. Threatening to do something and trying to do it are two different kettles of worms.
She was however certainly trying to rob the store and while she wasn’t trying to harm Ethan, she was certainly both threatening to do so and putting him at risk. Had he struggled in panic, he could easily have been seriously hurt or killed.
Sal is definitely minimizing what she did here.
Which doesn’t excuse what Amber did, of course.
We know she wasn’t going to hurt Ethan, but in the comic the only person who knows that is Sal.
Sal is the one talking.
A is true. But just because it wasn’t okay for Amber to do doesn’t make it quite fair for Sal to say.
Because Amber attacked a defenseless person with a knife minutes after Sal also attacked a defenseless person with the same knife. And Amber was a lot more provoked by Sal than Sal was by Ethan.
That was a bad thing for Amber to do–I don’t think that’s ever been disputed. But Sal was just beaming about her confrontation with her victim and how great it was that he wasn’t angry at her.
Now she’s confronting Amber for a similar crime. Attacking her in retaliation when she wasn’t posing any immediate threat–again in some ways similar to what she’s complaining that Amber did.
This actually might be why she lost faith in “the system”. That she was crippled and it counted for nothing.
I think this is going to open the only door which will end this: sharing an understanding of the consequences both of them live with every day as a result of what happened.
it would be *preferable* if this shared understanding wasn’t being communicated during a brawl, but that’s better than a brawl that doesn’t help them see each other as a wounded human being rather than a monster who deserves to suffer.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually just makes them genuinely hate each other for the indefinite future.
BECAUSE DAMN YOU WILLIS!
Sal clearly regrets what she did and wants to clear the air and move on.
In many ways, Amber is still in that convenience store.
Absolutely this. Amber, or ‘the thing’ if this is an alter, goes back to the convenience store in times of crisis. AG comes out to push away that feeling of helplessness and the explosion of violence that followed. Amber can’t move on; her brain won’t let her.
Sal had, just a little earlier, been offered proof via Ethan that she could put things behind her. That she could be forgiven. I think if this confrontation had happened later, she might have been able to respond differently.
The convenience store isn’t even the problem. The problem is years of abuse and manipulation at the hands of her father. The convenience store is just a way of pushing that out at someone else.
Even if she acknowledges the abuse, it’s hard to focus it all on him, to give him that power… even though she kind of is.
Kick her ass, kick her ass. I’m on Sal’s side god DAMN
Come on Amber, you trained for this.
Literally for this exact thing right here.
You know whose ass is about to get kicked? That of everyone’s emotions
Your gravatar is wildly inappropriate for that level of empathy.
No, it’s right. That’s why Mary is smiling. She sees the emotional damage coming. That makes her happy.
I’m on Ethan and Danny’s side.
“Oh god, please stop.”
‘No but it DID give me some MAJOR PTSD, which did NOT help me with my jackass of a dad.’
Remember that sal has insomnia sometimes? In worst case, she has ptsd, too, insomnia is a common side effect. But even in best case, she did get mentally damaged during that, too. Plus her hand is now pretty bad.
Anyway, crippling a human being should have legal consequences. I always wondered about that.
Why do people saying Sal was crippled?
Because she cannot use her hand to its fullest extent anymore. Multiple people have pointed out in the comments several times when Sal’s hand gets brought up that the way she was stabbed more than likely broke several bones and damaged nerves in her hand. Sal even talks to Danny (?) about it, how she can’t play a guitar anymore because of the way her hand was damaged.
Sorry, I knew it would mess her hand up in real life, but since it’s a comic I assumed it was a ‘flesh wound’.
When she helped Danny tune his banjo and gave him some tips for playing a stringed instrument, she said she can’t actually do it any more because of her hand.
There’s lots of small bones and tendons in your hands. It can’t possibly work right after being stabbed in it
Yeah, Sal can make a fist and is apparently okay to drive but more precise or finer motor skills? Apparently not.
Maybe because she is? She can’t use her frigging hand
I wonder if Walky’s going to show up. That’d be the other shoe to drop, wouldn’t it?
oh man, I thought maybe Marcie would show up during the fight, for maximum impact, but Walky would actually be worse
We’ve got Dorothy and Danny
We’ve got Dorothy and Danny. Next we get Walky and Joyce. Then we get Billie and Ruth and we’re all ready for the truck to come careening in.
Seriously, Ethan may stand there and watch without attempting to do anything, but Danny isn’t likely to.
It seems a bit mean to say Ethan is just standing there without attempting to do anything. His facial expression and hand gestures clearly indicate he’s a bit frozen ATM. I mean, I know I would be.
Especially considering that this may be the first time since the convenience store that Ethan has ever seen this side of Amber.
Blaine likely continued to verbally abuse her, insisted she go to self-defense classes instead of therapy and her parents got divorced. So. They did do a few things but Amber was already scarred by Blaine’s abuse so.
The parents are responsible here but Sal’s complete obliviousness to how serious her crime is comes from the fact she refuses to believe anything she does for good reasons is bad. Robbing the store? Justified. Threatening Ethan? He wasn’t hurt. Getting stabbed? She’s the victim. She’s more like Walky than she realizes.
Maybe it’s the sleep deprivation talking, but I’m not quite sure that’s the read we’re supposed to get from this.
Allow me to explain it in Vampire: The Masquerade terms. Sal is a Brujah. She frenzies much easier than other Kindred. The reason for said frenzies are systematic abuses and evil deeds done in her presence.
But the frenzies never make it better.
Her point is that SHE was actually punished for an attempted robbery, while Amber ACTUALLY stabbed her while she was in cuffs and apparently faced no consequences.
Sal isn’t saying SHE shouldn’t have been punished for what she did.
Sal got out of juvenile detention and was sent to a rich boarding school. It’s one of the blind spots to her own privilege despite the abuse she faces at home. If she hadn’t been from a rich family, she’d have been punished severely for assault with a deadly weapon and attempted robbery.
SO?
How does that make it OK that someone was allowed to STAB HER without any legal ramifications?
Do you really not get how that would piss someone off even if they completely accepted the consequences of their OWN actions?
Again, having been stabbed before under similar circumstances (as a child and the person not being prosecuted), I am probably projecting. I also went to Catholic School and found the experience deeply uplifting.
I caused the person who attacked me to fear for their life despite us both being kids. I was in the wrong.
I’m sorry that happened to you man. But what you’re describing is not quite the same as the gas station incident — Amber did not stab Sal because she was afraid for her life. It was not self-defence, like it might have been if Ethan fought back and Sal got hurt in that (hypothetical) tussle. Whether Amber is wholly culpable for her actions during a likely psychotic episode is another matter, but Sal getting stabbed in the hand after being disarmed was not a commensurate outcome of a botched robbery attempt.
Fair enough. That is a very important distinction.
But the thing that sticks with me about my RL situation is it could have gone very horribly for the guy who injured me (I don’t consider him my attacker). He was black, I was white, and I was rich and he wasn’t. It could have ruined his life and thank God it was handled otherwise.
Okay. You seem to really want to talk about yourself, so please do. Tell us all about how a rich white dude totally understands what it’s like to be a black woman. And please tell us more about this “stabbing.” Medical details. Because it’s so similar.
Ugh. Sorry, I don’t typically get this irritated at strangers on the internet. My point is that Sal’s injury was serious. It would have required surgery. (Possibly even a series of surgeries.) She still does not have full use of her hand. She is disabled.
And, institutional racism being what it is, Sal faced legal consequences for her actions while the person who inflicted a permanent injury on her faced no legal consequences. You, a white man, have not had a similar experience.
No, I’ve just been stabbed before and forced to go to Catholic school that enforced rigid conformity. I admit that led me to believe that Sal and I might have something in common in handling our perspectives on the subject.
You said your injury was not severe, and you seem to believe that is not relevant. So try thinking of it this way: if you have been in a fender bender, does that give you profound insight into the experience of someone who was in a severe collision that left them permanently disabled?
And what are the circumstances under which you went to a Catholic boarding school? (Was it even a boarding school?) Did you go under court order as part of a criminal procedure? Was it a punishment for an altercation that left you permanently disabled? If not, again, your circumstances are dissimilar in important ways.
And perhaps most importantly: why do you believe that your superficiality similar experience would endow you with an understanding of the events in Sal’s life that is superior to her own understanding? Why do you believe your “uplifting” experience is more valid than her non-uplifting experience?
Wait, which legal consequences did Sal face?
Her parents sent her away to boarding school, but that was *their* decision, or am I missing something.
Jago: That was the alternative to juvie. Presumably because it was her first time offense and maybe because Sal was seriously injured while in he custody of the police, who allowed a visibly upset child to stab another one, she was allowed that option.
Yeah, we don’t know all the particulars of what happened, just that Sal was eventually given a choice between a boarding school or juvie*, got a fuckton of (apparently worthless) therapists, and now has a record.
* = Not actually super uncommon for first time offenders, and when she was injured in police custody. There’s lots of alternatives to juvie that get used because juvie overcrowds and having lower juvie rates makes the place look better. Some off the top of my head are boot camp, community service, and counselling.
Also because Juvie is generally really bad for the kids.
That record should at least be sealed, right? Since she was a juvenile. And she should be able to get it cleared.
Her record actually wouldn’t be automatically sealed in Indiana. She’d have to petition the court and the law enforcement agency that arrested her, and they have to give thirty days for the agency to oppose sealing the record. Then the court has to make its decision and that can take time.
Hmm. I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to assume sal’s experience would be similar. Just, incorrect, because the differences turn out to be important.
But it’s also not like Amber stabbed Sal randomly, out of the blue, without facing any consequences. Amber stabbed Sal in a panic after she had been put through a traumatizing situation by Sal (yes, made worse by Blaine, but also yes, caused by Sal). Sal began the violence. It’s not exactly a fair enough situation, but it’s pretty hypocritical to hold a knife to someone’s throat as a hostage, threatening to kill that person (even if she had no intention of actually hurting Ethan) and then being outraged when one of the victims of the violent situation she made herself responds violently. Yes, Sal’s reasons for robbing were for her friend, but she still made that trauma, she still started that violence. So no, not nice to be stabbed. But it seems like Sal isn’t really acknowledging the wrong she herself did.
Except it could almost be described as “out of the blue” – Sal was already disarmed and in custody on the other side of the lot when Amber broke, ran up, grabbed the knife from out of an officer’s hands, and stabbed her.
No, out of the blue would be if they had both simply been shopping at a gas station and Amber had grabbed a knife and randomly stabbed Sal in the hand with no provocation. A very traumatizing situation happened beforehand and without it the stabbing situation never would have happened.
That doesn’t mean that Amber was justified in what she did, that doesn’t mean that it was right, it certainly wasn’t reasonable or healthy, but it wasn’t out of the blue, it resulted from a traumatic situation that Sal instigated.
Sal’s point here isn’t that she was punished for her actions – it’s that Amber wasn’t punished for hers.
Yes, that is what Sal said. I’m not sure what your point is though. Are you arguing that the circumstances should have been ignored and Amber should have been sent to juvie? That Sal was greatly wronged because Amber didn’t face criminal charges?
If so, then yeah, I’m going to disagree. I’ve volunteered for a domestic violence shelter and that sort of thing is something that comes up for victims of abuse and trauma a lot. Abuser beats their partner. Partner fights back. Maybe it’s even reactive after the fact, when the person was technically safe, like Amber was. Never fails that the abuser gets all puffed up about how sure, /they/ were violent but so was their partner, and they use that to try and paint themselves as the victim and justify their abuse. Amber and Sal were strangers, but Sal’s mindset still strikes me as concerning.
Sal pointing out that there were no consequences whatsoever (legally anyways) for the girl who stabbed her through the hand after she was no longer a threat is nowhere near the same league as an abuser trying to manipulate the situation to punish their victim for rebelling. What the actual hell?
And Amber didn’t just stab Sal because of the robbery. She did it because her father berated her until she snapped. You say the stabbing wouldn’t have happened without the robbery, but it also almost certainly would not have happened without Blaine being an abusive douche. Yes, abuse victims or people who have been traumatized sometimes snap, but Amber wasn’t snapping on Sal because of Sal, she snapped on her because of her dad.
Generally talking about how a victim of violence should not be prosecuted out of context of the violent situation.
Yes, Blaine played a large part in why Amber did snap under those circumstances. But yes, they were still circumstances caused by Sal. Blaine being an utterly terrible person and father and having caused Amber way more trauma doesn’t excuse Sal from having created a violent situation.
That doesn’t mean that Sal isn’t allowed to have her own trauma, but for the gas station incident, yes, she is the one who began a violent situation and that gives her some responsibility for what results from it. She began it because of her own bad situation. That violent situation happened to include Amber, who reacted particularly badly because of her own bad situation. Neither of them knew the other person’s bad situation. In general I think that Amber and Sal are both projecting the problems moreso created by their terrible parents onto each other.
from all the discussions here, i mostly agree with Larkle.
Sal does not seem to realize that “i hurt nobody” is very ignorant of what an incident like this can do to someone’s mental health… I don’t think of “stabbing someone’s hand“ as less damaging than “creating a traumatizing situation“. I don’t say that “being stabbed in the hand“ is not a traumatizing situation, i just want to call out that physical violence is not necessarily the worse crime above psychological violence.
Amber’s mental health wasn’t good to begin with, but it sure got worse afterwards (granted, it also got worse because she stabbed Sal and while that actually was an attempt at proving to her dad that she’s not just a pushover, it didn’t get her the acknowledgement she wanted and Blaine still harassed her for how badly she handled it…).
Both of them did wrong when they were thirteen, and both are doing wrong getting into a fight now…
@ Larkle – I do agree that Sal’s not excused from starting a violent situation, but I disagree that that makes her responsible for Amber’s decision to stab her. That one is on Blaine because Blaine is the one who actually caused Amber to snap and stab Sal. Without him, I don’t believe she would have. I also don’t think Sal’s wrong to feel like it was an injustice that Amber wasn’t charged for stabbing her. That said, no, I don’t think juvie would have been the answer – I’d rather along the lines of court mandated therapy, because you’re right, it is a result of trauma and abuse.
@ Felian – I’m pretty sure Sal’s speaking strictly about physically hurting someone.
@BBCC – Yeah, she’s speaking strictly about physically hurting someone, but by doing so, she’s minimizing what she did do. Like she’s also doing by saying she didn’t steal anything.
I don’t think it’s minimizing to point out that a crime where no one was (physically) hurt and a crime where one was resulted in only the one where no one was hurt being sanctioned. Generally, crimes that do physically hurt people are taken more seriously because there’s a greater risk of death or long term (again, physical) disability.
Additionally, in this fight, Sal threw the first punch. Which does put her in the position of instigator as well. Maybe if she hadn’t Amber would have, or maybe Amber wouldn’t have escalated it to violence, we really don’t know.
“Getting stabbed? She’s the victim.” I mean, yeah. She was the victim of that. Considering Sal so far has shown an incredible guilt complex and basically blames herself for everything, I don’t see how she’s denying that what she did was bad. She knows robbing the convenience store was bad. She knows that holding Ethan hostage was bad. She got punished for it, did her time and even had a constructive conversation with Ethan regarding the events and what she did to him.
What she’s pointing out is that the person that actually stabbed someone else that night (Amber) didn’t suffer from any legal repercussions, which is true. Amber did suffer from parental repercussions, though, but Sal has no way of knowing that and she is wrong for assuming.
What did your parents do?
Amber faced no legal consequences, and I think Sal might have had a better sentence if she was white and/or her parents were on her side but Sal’s complaining about how her mother was just looking for an excuse to give up on her.
But parents, Amber’s dad did berate her for the incident, the wrong part and decided to sign her up for self defense lessons. Amber’s mom was most likely exactly as coddling as Sal imagines.
Any consequences whatsoever now Amber is convinced that she will end up like her dad and has brain freezing flashbacks every time she sees your face.
Blaine berated amber before the stabbing for not trying to save Ethan.
Sal has a point, amber was never technically reprimanded for the stabling, parentally or otherwise. Blaine probably saw the self defense lesson as a reward in his twisted mind
Well she might have a point. We don’t know what actually went on after the stabbing. What legal maneuverings took place. How Blaine responded, etc.
I find it unlikely there were any sort of parental consequences or legal ones for Amber.
Consequences for losing control while with her abuser and ’embarrassing’ him? Oh yes, almost certainly.
Funny thing about Blaine and Linda (and, well, all abusers I guess) – they get so much NASTIER when their ego is at stake.
I don’t think she’s oblivious at all. She may have talked herself into thinking robbing the store was justified at the time, but even then it’s shown that she knew what she was doing was wrong, she never thought otherwise. She knew that she was in the wrong to take hostages, and approached Ethan when she remembered that he was there. She knows she was in the wrong with Amber as well, but Amber also personally wronged her, so it’s kind of causing a real logic-overriding trigger reaction.
I’m afraid they have both lost control… i hope someone stops them.
I’d call Sal on that low blow, but I think this is the type of fight that features low blows.
Sal, you held a knife to a kid’s throat, giving* Amber PTSD. Hurting nobody is a stretch. And Amber’s Dad blamed her for the theft and berated her until she stabbed you. So yeah, I tend to fall more on her side there.**
*probably just worsening, TBF
**You were both abused children who handled it badly, but you started the collapse
Sal doesn’t know about Amber’s dad or her PTSD.
All she knows is the person who stabbed her while she was in handcuffs got away with it, while her entire childhood was ruined, and then that same girl stalked her, attacked her and her friends, and later nearly got her torn apart by an angry mob, but still has the gall to be angry with HER
Like, yes, Amber does in fact have perfectly valid reasons to hold a grudge, but so does Sal.
If they’d both limited this to angry shouting, they’d both be 100% justified. Unfortunately they’ve both decided to take the stupid, self-destructive route where they try to hash this out by punching each other.
Holy shit, a reasoned comment in this hellstorm of a thread. Thank you!
Let’s be fair: calling Sal a thug did not make this thread any less of a hellstorm.
Yes because “wah wah the thug got stabbed” is a perfectly reasoned comment, thank you for imparting your eternal wisdom upon us
seriously
Sal is tough (her spleen is probably ruptured after going into that handrail), and she’s asking some questions about how her life pretty much ended figuratively to someone whose life was already gone mentally (Amber’s dad screwed her up, and that stabbing was pretty much all that bottled-up rage being released). I’m going to say it again, Walky is going to be scarred big time after all of this, and I feel for the dude.
It doesn’t look like she was slammed into it, just knocked across it. Still probably hurt like a bongo.
They both have plot armor, they’ll get a little banged up but they’ll be fine.
She slso essentially has literal armor on. She’s wearing a leather riding jacket. My dad used to use those to play with the family’s boxer, who had what would’ve been a crippling bite if not for those leathers.
Leathers will protect against puncture wounds (and road rash); but won’t do anything against the force of a crushing blow, like that was.
But plot armour, yeah.
I think Walky will feel like he dodged a bullet… and go back to the loving embrace of his nachitos.
Yikes, I definitely underestimated Sal.
Also… Yikes, this is not going well.
This fight sequence brought to you by Rutten Technologies.
When someone needs guttin’, pick Rutten!
I don’t think that’s how you pronounce Rutten.
On the contrary, that is how I pronounce Rutten. (And I can’t think of any notably different way to pronounce it, so ????)
Rootin’ is how I’ve been pronouncing it. Like rooting but with no g.
Unfortunately, Sal, you’re not the only one here with terrible, terrible parents 🙁
You know what that’s it, I’ve been pulling my punches hear because in fairness Amber is mostly responsible for letting this get out of hand and she at this point in time has done just as much damage to Sal than she’s done to her or maybe even a little bit more . But I refuse to not call out shit when I see it even if a lot of others don’t agree with me.
Sal is not the only person in the world with a shit relationship with her parents let alone does she have the worst relationship in the world with their parents. I know she’s venting I know her dear Mom and Dad drop the ball majorly when it comes so how they dealt with her. But she still barely knows the full details of what Ambers entire life has been like up until now, hell most of what she knows now now only found out 5 minutes ago. whether or not which one of these two have had it worse is up for debate, but to just assume off the bat that Amber has had it better than her as if besides the robbery everything in her life has been nothing but a leave it to beaver fantasy is inconsiderate.
So to quote sell herself a number of pages back ” Stow it Pollyanna you don’t know anything about her.” ( Pollyanna is probably the worse way to describe her though)
I don’t think she’s saying “I was more oppressed by my parents than you.” I think it’s more like “I did time for what I did, and I bet you didn’t.” Which is… true. It being true doesn’t negate Amber’s suffering in other ways.
Your close but to me I’m hearing is ” look I suffered because of that incident ok. I bet you didn’t.”
Also a look another example that I suck at proofreading. I spent 30 minutes typing that out I should be ashamed of myself.
Dude, you’re thinking about this way too logically. From Sal’s perspective, this is a girl who stalked her and stabbed her in the hand and never faced consequences, and that memory is indelibly linked to her facing consequences, getting shipped off to boarding school on the other side of the country. She doesn’t just assume Amber had it better than her, she assumes everyone had it better than her because her life sucked. And yeah, it’s a little bit of hubris to think that, but logic takes a backseat to emotion in these situations.
True, thats all nothing less than true. To be honest I kind of made this reply for the sake of aiming it at the Sal fanbase than the character herself for falling right in line with this train of thought. Guess I’m just venting.
I must say that I do agree with Sal here and this MUST be vindicating as all hell to finally get this frustration and pain out of the way and in the open. To FINALLY deal with this trauma and how it has affected her life.
Not to say that I don’t sympathize with Amber, she’s had a living hell to go through with her father and all, but her trauma truly affected Sal in a way that can not be undone.
I do also greatly appreciate that Danny and Ethan have NO idea what to do here. Quite frankly I would let them fight it out if it weren’t for the fact that they are right out in the open where Security can see them and press charges. Amber having just recently stabbed the hell out of someone not to long ago would not help her case either.
I do now see some threads being weaved for the future here. Dorothy possibly distancing herself from Walky further due to Sal attacking someone, it looks like she laid the first punch from her perspective and how Amber placed herself in front of Ethan protectively, sides being drawn in the sand and splitting up the relationships and friendships due to this fight. We’ll have to wait and see what happens I suppose.
I kinda hate to say it… but I’m rooting for Sal, here.
Sal has anger issues, but she directs it better than Amazi-Girl does. Amber toys with her dark side, and hides from it… but Sal accepted it, and controls it.
At the same time, I don’t want to compare either of their traumas… Amber had/has an abusive father, and Sal’s parents are neglectful, ignoring the racism that Sal had to deal with on a daily basis, and favoring Walky.
But if I have to pick one… I have to go with Sal. Her intentions were always about helping someone. Amber’s was about releasing aggression.
Yeah, this is basically Amber’s fault. I mean, it definitely takes two to tango, but Amber has stalked, harassed and threatened Sal constantly over ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. She mocked a black girl about having a criminal record. Amber is way, way out of line here.
People saying, “Sal is being a dick assuming Amber doesn’t have trauma” are missing the point. Sal isn’t using her trauma as an excuse to fight here—she has plenty of valid reasons to be pissed at Amber, even if her response is ultimately bad. Amber’s ONLY reason is her trauma and her stubborn clinging to personal narratives.
Aside from where Amazigirl initiated conflict, Sal has never been anything but a friend to Amber and Amazigirl. Sal has LITERALLY SAVED HER LIFE. Amber’s extenuating circumstances are sad and sympathetic, but do not excuse her behavior even a little bit.
And Sal does not owe Amber anything—not understanding, not sympathy, not empathy. Maybe an apology for the convenience store incident, though honestly, I think the stabbing kind of evened the score on that one.
Let me say it again: Sal does not owe Amber anything. This isn’t to say Sal is in the right, here, but she does not owe Amber anything.
Sorry for the caps. People taking Amber’s side here are just a little frustrating. Sal has had literally zero opportunity to understand Amber’s extremely complicated and partially self-inflicted circumstances, whereas Amber could have reached out at any time before now to try to understand Sal better. Amber didn’t do it because Amber is really, really bad at handling her trauma, in large part because of how her dad raised her.
And that’s not her fault, exactly. But it’s also not Sal’s problem.
I bet all the money in my pocket that Amber just responds with “It made ME” (which, technically, she already did), showcasing how detached from reality she actually is. Amber is incredibly selfish and at every opportunity, has interpreted everything through a comic book fantasy in which she is literally the only character that matters.
Not necessarily, but Sal was a convenient scapegoat. And she is the only one who lapses into red panels (Sal did once, but that was in flashback and she’s implied that she worked through her anger).
To Amber, Sal is the Big Bad. She doesn’t know anything about her beyond her filling the comic book role of “Amazi-Girl’s archnemesis” for her internal narrative.
It makes me really frustrated too! Especially the people that imply that anything that AG has said that has been apologetic and Friend Making applies to Amber.
Dissociative Identity Disorder frequently results in memory lost for each member. Especially in a case such as Amber’s where she’s still not come to terms with it. Amber doesn’t remember what she said to Sal as Amazigirl because She didn’t say it! Amazigirl did. And this lack of understanding about the mental illness that is severely and fundamentally impacting this encounter, and especially what it means from Amber’s perspective (she has very few positive interactions with Sal where she’s tried to understand her, unlike AG), means that a lot of people just Aren’t Getting it.
Also Sal doesn’t know that AG is an entirely different personality. All she knows is that she’s been manipulated by the person who wasn’t arrested (and didn’t have to go through that trauma) for injuring her while she was arrested and fortunate to not have to go through Juvie because her parents at least cared enough to come up with a plea bargain which was still pretty bad because it ripped Sal’s future and hope of helping Marcie from her. Because IIRC Sal’s college fund got used on the catholic school she didn’t even want to go to.
Thank you Rogue. As Amber said at the start, Amazi-girl isn’t here right now. While AG and Sal seem to have worked through things and come to an understanding, Amber hasn’t. In the lead up to this she has usually fled from Sal, but now she finds herself in a situation that is probably very reminiscant of the hold-up. Sal is there, Ethan is there, and I can imagine that Amber is determined that this time she is going to do what she wishes she did the first time. To stop Sal and protect Ethan. Even though he is not in any danger here I suspect Amber doesn’t recognise that fact. When Sal says that she wonders if Amber could take her in a fair fight, Amber points out that, apparently, she’s been wondering about that since that night.
I feel that to put ones own motivations onto Amber, to expect her to act rationally, is unrealistic. Take Marshall Ney, Napoleon’s brilliant cavalry commander at Waterloo. After the retreat from Moscow Ney was suffering from PTSD. It wasn’t apparent to his colleagues but it was at Waterloo where his handling of the French cavalry was catastrophic. Everyone at the time could have told Ney charging cavalry, unsupported, against infantry in good order was a recipe for disaster. Everyone could tell Amber that fighting Sal is a recipe for disaster. But where Amber is right now, coupled with Sals anger and frustration at how her life has turned out, means this was probably inevitable.
Just for the record: I don’t think we know anything about Sal’s college fund. Or what paid for Catholic school. Doesn’t really make sense to claim that ruined her future in that sense though, since she’s here at college, apparently paid for by her parents. For all their faults, they don’t seem to have cut her off that thoroughly.
Linda did take the money she’d been saving up for Marcie, which might be what you’re thinking of. There was speculation that got used towards the Catholic school costs, but no actual evidence.
We don’t know what’s up with the college or catholic school payment. For all we know, the court’s the one that gave them the choice between the school and juvie (although I’m sure even if that’s the case there was some sort of wrangling there and I guarantee it’s at least partly motivated because having Sal go to jail would be so much worse for the Walkerton parent’s reputation).
Personally, for college, my head canon (and just my head canon) is that the Walkertons felt obligated to pay for Sal’s college because they did for Walky’s and so they told her they would, but only if she went to the same school as Walky (where he could keep an eye on her if they got suspicious being heavily implied, hence why Sal’s so sure Walky’d snitch to their parents about anything she does early on).
Oh geez… both of you had shitty childhoods/parents (well, Amber’s Mom isn’t bad but her dad is Satan, so…) and both of you need hugs and therapy and to NOT be doing this right now, for the love of cake.
Boy oh Boy looks like it’s getting worse than I coulda ever anticipated, both in universe and in the comment section! hoopdeedoo.
we are in a serious place, this is a very serious time, but can you imagine being literally any other freshman on this campus besides the cast? like its your first year of college, things are already SO fucking weird, and theres like. a superhero, gunshots, an attempted kidnapping, this, some mean girls rollerskating outside, a british guy? and its still the fall semester of freshman year.
Don’t forget a guy got knife wounds like 2 weeks ago too.
Sounds about normal.
My head canon is that there’s nothing exceptional about the floor we’re focused on. Every other group of kids on campus is going through their own crazy drama.
If this is normal for this universe, I am so glad I live in ours. And if this is normal in our universe, too, I’m glad it wasn’t where I went to school. The weirdest I dealt with freshman year was the campus flooding in a bad rainstorm.
Are British people really so rare in America?
I’m pretty sure that last bit was a joke.
.. is anyone besides me just entirely amused that Sal is still wearing the Rutten jacket? Like, Carla’s name is emblazoned on every Sal-punch. It’s kind of fantastic.
I feel sure that Carla will appreciate it.
Carla’s more the “ultimately harmless shenanigans” type, though…
I love Sal but she considers herself having SUFFERED by going to a posh boarding school instead of juvenile detention for her assault with a deadly weapon.
Sal can’t grok that her parents pulled strings to get her out of serious legal jeopardy–which makes up for none of their abuse but also makes her anger ring hollower than it usually does.
Sal being a minor when she committed the crime is significant. It would have to be a pretty harsh judge to convict a thirteen year old girl for her first offense when she didn’t hurt anyone or steal anything. That does matter. I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think Sal got off easy when considering all the factors. Society in general look down on putting children in jail.
You’re right. Going to Catholic School and being separated from my family was a deep relief for me. I’m projecting. It was clearly traumatizing for Sal.
You’ve made fair points. She could have been facing jail time. She might not even have a record, which would be pretty lucky as well. Especially considering she has faced significant racism, like being accused of starting that fight at the rally and being called a troublemaker. It’s actually pretty gray subject matter, like all of this storyline.
She said after the car chase that she has a record.
Juvenile record should be sealed, I would hope, so at least it shouldn’t affect her in terms of employment and the like.
Doesn’t automatically seal in Indiana. You have to apply to the court and the relevant law enforcement agency, often in the same county. Sal also mentioned her record as a good reason to avoid police officers during the Toedad situation (“I’m way too smart to be the black kid with a record caught in some sort of school shooting kidnapping deal”).
She put a knife to someone’s throat to steal some cash. And the only reason she didn’t get any is because the cashier’s life wasn’t threatened and they were trying to help Sal.
To do no juvie whatsoever after the charges she was eligible for? Yeah, she got off light. Her situation still sucks, but she could still be locked up for those particular crimes if her parents hadn’t pulled some strings and/or the judge was less lenient.
Yeah, armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon. We’re actually talking some serious crime here.
(She’s also pretty lucky she didn’t just get shot by the responding officers, but we haven’t seen how that played out yet.)
She was sent to a Catholic, predominately white school hundreds of miles away from anyone she knows as a POC.
That wasn’t some cakewalk.
I wonder if Sal has any friends of color other than Marcie. It seems she’s been deliberately isolated from a larger black community.
Is Marcie even brown? Hard to tell in the comic because all of the skin tones look relatively light.
Regardless of skin tone, Marcie’s definitely Latina.
You should seriously consider that not every hyper-religious boarding school is actually a nice place or even a good school. Some of them are just expensive abusive holes.
While true, it’s telling that Sal has never actually indicated this to be the case. It very well could be the case as life generally sucks in this world (and its fictional counterpart in DOA).
I get the impression her distaste for the boarding school was instead having to adopt the perky persona we saw on Visitation Day.
Sal’s said repeatedly the school was like a prison and didn’t actually have many differences from juvie. I’d call those indications the place was not a good school, to be mild.
It was probably a reform school, so pretty much juvie with all the trappings of a Catholic boarding school. Two flavors of authority at the same time, Sal’s favorite thing!
It wouldn’t surprise me if Linda insisted on it, rather than a structured rehabilitation program closer to home, just so she could wash her hands of her problem child.
I don’t think we’ve got any evidence it was actually a reform school rather than a traditional Catholic boarding school. I suppose it could have been, but at the least it’s not clear.
The way Sal describes it (‘like prison’, and not much different than actual juvie, tightly supervised at all times) sounds like a reform school to me.
We have absolutely 0 information about what Sal’s boarding school was like. To claim that it was a posh, pleasant place and that Sal is unfairly complaining when she got off easy is an incredibly presumptuous statement. You’ve repeatedly said that you’ve gone to Catholic school as a kid. Do you not think your experiences as a (in your words) rich white boy would be any different from that of a middle-class black girl? Especially one who would have had a reputation for violence by the time she comes to the school?
Sal is a wealthy black girl. Which is an interesting element of her backstory.
And yet, that would absolutely do nothing for any racism or abuse she encountered for being a violent black problem child sent to a Catholic school in the south, which was my entire point.
I don’t define wealthy as “actively needs to save money for kids to go to college”. To me if you’re wealthy, you’ve got the cash handy.
We do not have 0 information about the boarding school. Sal, herself, said it was much like a prison, not much different from juvie. It was pointed out elsewhere in the comments. It was also in the south, so, yes, it would likely be a hotbed of racism.
I don’t think the problem was boarding school itself, but rather the fact that her parents gave up on her and sent her away, which crystallized her notion that she could never please them.
Yes, I was going to write this. She felt that the entire situation happened because her mom took away the money. And instead of trying to understand her motivations or trying to counsel/talk to her they just shipped her off. Sal also probably didn’t notice Amber when she was taking Ethan hostage. She was under a lot of strain then. And she does not know about Amber’s home situation. Amber doesn’t know how desperate Sal was to get that money. She snapped after perhaps years and years of jabs from Blaine. It’s just a very unfortunate matter all around. Each thinks she has been wronged. Each thinks it has to be set right this way. And I don’t know if the boarding school I went to was catholic or not, but I stayed in the dorms for 4 months and it was so oppressive that I fell physically sick and had to go back to day schooling. And not to forget I was made to stay at the dorms in the first place because my sister had just been born and my mom felt I was wasting my time playing with my baby sister instead of studying. I was seven.
Often Christian reform boarding school is code for abuse factory. So lets believe Sal about her school I’d say until we have proof otherwise but honestly a few isolated incidents of it not seeming so bad is not proof and a student with Stockholm Syndrome isn’t proof.
I don’t think it’s a reform school. Then again, I’m taking the view the family sent her away to essentially get her out of their hair and that they threw money at the “problem.”
I’m not diminishing the fact Sal felt given up on. I also believe the injury she suffered and abuse at her mother’s hands have left scars every bit as deep as Ambers…but she is an overall much more mature and arguably “better” person.
That sure is a lot of people watching! Anybody gonna intervene? No? At least not yet? Dang.
Also dang, Dorothy, now she’s helplessly watched Amber be super violent on both sides of the building (or the same side twice if I have the layout wrong >.>)
Oooh sneaky uppercut, she runs at Amber with her right fist raised but punches with her left. Getting tricky.
A part of me is like “kick her ass!! Fuck yeah!!” But another part of me is incredibly sad for dorothy. She’s had to watch amber in a fight twice now.
Also.. oh no.. will everyone watching assume Sal is the instigator and then subsequently be shunned?? Oh no 🙁
Yeah, Sal’s definitely gonna end up solely taking the fall for this one unfortunately.
Still technically rooting for her but there’s no way she’s not getting expelled.
Oh fuck, I didn’t think about that
This is a fictitious story. There is always a way.
The story wouldn’t allow for her to get expelled. She will suffer though
Didn’t Amber learn to keep her guard up in her martial arts training? I can maybe understand getting the first punch to her face if she wasn’t taking the threat seriously enough, but the second one she should have blocked, especially coming at a similar angle (albeit a different hand).
Note that Sal threw two punches in this comic. Amber dodged one of them. Sal is good at fighting, too.
Being that you have two small teenage girls that can beat up multiple men I wouldn’t get too bothered with the depictions of fighting, its not really meant to be taken seriously
Speaking as someone who was a tiny teenage girl, younger than both of these two, I promise it is possible to hold your own with multiple grown men. It’s not fun or easy but it is possible.
I’m assuming you didn’t go out of your way to actively take on these men though which is a bit different to what Amber, and to a lesser degree, Sal do
I just assume that the strips where Amber and Sal are fighting are just basic wish fulfillment or an extension of the superhuman abilities both have shown in the past
That would probably make it better actually, if you’re prepared to get in a fight.
Yes well Scrappy Doo was always prepared to fight as well
Why do you think they have weight categories in combat sports, because size and strength matters. Its why Floyd Mayweather who may well be the best pound for pound boxer ever would never fight a heavyweight, because he’d get smashed to bits even though his defense is, arguably, the best theres ever been
Or why males don’t compete against females in general, because of the physical advantages males have over females
In no way can, except under exceptional circumstances, two small teenage girls get into the type of fights they get into against multiple male opponents and win
Hell Amber beating the snot out of her father was unrealistic (though good to see) because theres only so much force someone as short and small as Amber can generate
However given what both Sal and Amber are calpable of its fair to say they’re both superhuman to some degree so this fight isn’t really that big a deal
There are any number of circumstances under which someone with *experience* fighting, even a small young woman, could wipe the floor with a big dude who had no clue what he was doing. Weight categories in sports presume everyone involved is, y’know, a professional athlete.
The implication is supposed to be that Sal has had a lot of experience in actual fights, while we know for a fact Amber has had formal self-defense training that may well have included fighting. That doesn’t account for everything they can do, but being physically large and having slightly greater upper body strength is not exactly an insurmountable advantage IRL.
Let’s not also forget that they’re both probably cruising pretty hard on adrenaline, and that Amber in particular is probably in full fight-or-flight mode and up to her eyeballs in it.
When I was 16 (so right about their ages, just a little younger) and about 120 lbs soaking wet (and with the muscles of a wet noodle), I got into a snowmobile accident that broke my elbow. I then, hopped up on the resultant adrenaline, and with a broken arm, flipped the 300 lb+ snowmobile (which had tipped onto its side) right side up again.
Adrenaline is a hell of a thing.
But still, let’s not pretend any of this is realistic either.
And it’s not even so much that they’re small young women. They’re both routinely and casually getting in fights with groups of guys and correctly not showing much concern about it. Sure, it’s possible to pull that off once in awhile if you’re well trained or experienced, relying on the others not having any idea what they’re doing, but in reality you’d never be able to keep it up.
They’re unrealistically good, because they’re action heroes. Not even “superhuman” in the sense of actual in world superpowers, just the kind of over the top skills you get when the script writer and fight choreographer is on your side. 🙂
Yes adrenaline can do amazing things but in situations like that its (hopefully) usually a one off thing when you’re not expecting it. What Sal and Amber do isn’t a one off thing, they’ve done it multiple times and they go out of their way to put themselves into those situations
@ thejeff, yep absolutely
Dude, you’re talking to someone who has been in a fight with multiple males who were bigger than her. Like I said, it is possible. It’s not fun or easy, but it is possible.
In sports, it’s more important to have them divided by size and strength (sometimes – my martial arts class often had me against full grown men when I was a teenager) than by gender. The idea a man of equivalent skill and size with a woman will automatically have the advantage is laughable and has been proven untrue when in practice in numerous different sports.
“The idea a man of equivalent skill and size with a woman will automatically have the advantage is laughable and has been proven untrue when in practice in numerous different sports.”
What sports or examples of this can you link to, I’d like to check them out so I can educate myself
For one, a lot of mixed martial arts. Like I said, mine didn’t go by gender or even by weight, it went by skill.
There’s also promotions that’ll show inter gender wrestling. WWE’s Chyna also used to do lots of matches with men and won a Championship at least three times.
Wrestling data should help with finding records on wrestlers. Not sure where you can find more on MMA.
Overall though, yeh, it’s more about weight, skill and size than gender.
@BBCC Are you aware that the results are scripted, that the WWE could pay Brock Lesnar to drop the belt to me or you. Yes pro wrestlers are fantastic athletes (I’m a wrestling fan after all) but to claim Chyna as proof is…stretching credibility
Heres what happens when one the very best women strikers in the world (Lucia Rijker) took on a journeyman, its probably the best example of male v female I could find in that they were both in their 20s and physically evenly matched
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2QgDWSfQik
Yes, I am. Fair enough, although I think it’s telling that when women win it’s always ‘well, it’s scripted, they couldn’t REALLY win’ while with a man of equivalent experience, skill, and size winning, there’s still more debate about who would win irl.
I also told you there are other promotions that do inter gender wrestling. I also offered my own experience, wherein I did what you said Amber and Sal should not have been able to do and held my own (if not won) with multiple, larger, male opponents when I was a tiny teenage girl.
Congratulations. You found one example of a woman losing in an inter gender fight. I notice you (and a lot of other the comments tbh) ignored when she blocked other punches from him as well as the fact that, if they’re truly physically evenly matched, she should be able to drop him too. I’ve also seen a LOT of people downplaying his own skill – he may not be well known, but he’s hardly some low talent schmo of middling ability. He was at the time the reigning Muay Thai Australasian champion. Lucia Rijker is very strong, but yes, if she and Somchai Jaidee are at equivalent size, skill and experience, and both were at the top of their leagues at the time, yeah, he should be able to knock her out.
Try googling Ediane Gomes. Or you could try Uriah Hall talking about how he’s lost to Ronda Rousey twice. Inter gender fighting is also more common in smaller, more underground circuits as well.
And since you’re interested in Lucia Rijker, when measuring the force behind punches, Fight Science found she hit harder than Moe Ganyu (who is the same size as her) and about as hard as Houston Alexander (much larger and known for his knockout power). Now Fight Science is hardly the most scientifically rigorous program in the universe, despite the name, but it’s actually relatively easy to measure the force of a punch, so I’m a bit more willing to go into it here.
You haven’t brought this up in particular, but one of the reasons I saw brought up a lot was because ‘testosterone distributes muscle in ways that make it too hard for women to keep up!’ and this seems like as good a place to address this as any. Feel free to ignore this next bit if you want. As you can tell, as a woman who used to be involved in martial arts before my health compelled me to stop, I’ve heard more than a few arguments as to why men will always must needs be stronger than women in a fight and it’s never failed to make me roll my eyes. I can almost (almost) understand when referring to combat sports, but I’ve seen this ‘men are always stronger and therefore shouldn’t compete with women’ bullshit when people are talking about sports like swimming or shooting. Like, c’mon now. Anyways, here’s my comments on the testosterone argument:
A) I hope I don’t need to point out what a cissexist and perisexist argument this is. Intersex and trans women can and do have testosterone in the range those who make this argument posit.
B) So can cis and perisex women actually, but women with higher testosterone levels are banned in several sporting competitions.
C) Current research indicates testosterone and performance have a weak, if any, correlation. About 15% of elite male fighters actually score below the ‘typical male’ range most policies stipulate.
So what exactly is your point here? In this one specific fight, he won and she lost, therefore this entire argument is proven wrong, because of one example that goes against it?
fwiw, I have a much-taller guy friend who I sparred with a few times after we’d both had a small amount of martial arts training (me probably a year more than him?)
standing up, it was laughable; he could grab my wrist and none of the tricks for breaking out worked. but on the ground, it was much more even, and I actually pinned him at least once. 🙂 *despite* being rather distracted by how hot he is.
…and I just read bbcc’s long comment. 🙂 Neat! I would love more info on that. I’m not sure how much of the difference in strength is testosterone, how much is other male-puberty stuff and how much is me personally starting out with ridiculously weak arms. (I had a lot of trouble opening doors in high school, and could barely lift a cast iron frying pan until I got into weight lifting)
@ Inahc – That sounds like an upper arm strength problem. My brother and I still get in fights occasionally, but the tricks for hold breaks have always worked for me with wrists. Then again, I’m also into rock climbing, so I have more upper body strength than most people think looking at me.
Damn, yeah rock climbing takes a lot of strength 🙂 I loved climbing as a kid, but I can’t handle the texture of chalk, and last time I tried to wear climbing shoes my big toes turned a very angry painful red.
It also took me a long time to work up to being able to do a single pull-up. I think I was able to do two of them around the time I was squatting 135+. Like Amber, my strength is all in my legs.
…I wonder if that’s because of or in spite of the birth defect in my leg…
I don’t think I’ve ever used the chalk. I went to climbing walls with harnesses. I don’t recall whether climbing shoes are tighter than my regular ones, but I feel that pain. I hate bowling shoes. HATE. And hey, strong legs make for strong pins. No problem with strong legs.
Remember when these two we’re playing Mario Kart together? Good times….😧
On the subject of art, can I just say how much I like the lighting effects in this strip? They’re really standing out to me for some reason, but in a good way. 🙂
this is weirdly cathartic during a vitriolic time in my life. thanks, i think?
Danny will rush between them, because that is what Danny would do.
The line between a good egg and a scrambled one can be very thin.
This made me laugh and I’m so sorry.
And Sal would hurt him. And then she’d have to reckon for it.
Conversely, Ethan could intervene and Amber could hurt him.
Either way, I doubt this fight plays out until the finish. Something’s going to happen that will make Amber and/or Sal regret their actions.
Now that I think about it, this is the second time Dorothy watches horrified from a window as Amber gets into a fight with someone else. There’s less stabbing in this one, though.
Give it time…
In a manner of speaking, the stabbing involved in this fight already happened : (
I considered it, but we know Amber only stabbed Sal once while I’m pretty sure she stabbed Gashface way more than that. So, yeah, definitely less stabbing in this one. Yay, progress!
But this time, Dorothy is not helpless. She can do something if she chooses.
So, the angle I’m coming from in regards to this strip and what Sal is saying is: Sal feels like she’s paid her debt to society. We can reasonably assume that the boarding school was the preferred alternative to juvie even though I think it’s been stated that she still has a record.
In her mind, not only has Amber been treating her like she deserves to be in prison even now for this one crime that she didn’t even successfully pull off but Amber stabbed a defenseless person and got to go home afterwards
Yeah, when you stop looking at everything through Amber’s red-tinted goggles, a lot of this starts to look a lot more sympathetic to Sal. From Sal’s perspective, she’s done literally nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. It’s just an extension of how her parents have always treated her, trying desperately to catch her slipping up so they can say, “Ha, I knew she was no good.”
Remember the first “peaceful” conversation these two had, after Sal literally saved Amber’s life and secret identity: Sal explained why she saved Amber from the cops, and Amber mocked the black girl for having a criminal record and having to worry about police profiling her.
That’s one perspective on it, what I’m hearing is “Look I did my time so what does it matter and who are you to judge me? You don’t know what I’ve been through and you know what drove me to do those things. You probably wouldn’t understand what I went through since you probably went right back to being coddled the rest of your life because of what happened. So let it go.”
For the beginning part of it before they started teaming up it did feel like Amber/Amazi-Girl was treating her like a criminal that didn’t change and Amber/Amazi-Girl realized that she was wrong and she openly admitted that and apologized for it (As seen here: http://www.dumbingofage.com) Amber had a very late start taking Sal’s circumstance into consideration which made this whole thing worse, but Sal hasn’t begone to take Ambers circumstance into consideration or barely anyone else’s which started this entire mess to begine with so long ago.
Sorry if I’m coming off as hostile everyone’s got me in a mood.
Me too.
That’s why I’m not even commenting.
I just don’t get the whole ‘well this aggressive violence is justified because of previous violence, because violence is bad’
You can have two wrongs without any justice. You can have two separate traumas that don’t need comparison and don’t need to be weighed against each other, because at the end of the day they both either justify or neither.
‘Fair’ is not some sort of golden ticket that only goes to one person and can be taken away if someone else with different problems needs it more.
GAH
But hey. Just wanted to say. This comment section is making me nuts too.
#teamtherapyforall
Also here’s the the right link Where Amber yourself is saying your right: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/underoos/
Unfortunately for everyone involved it was AG who said that and Amber isn’t in a space to remember that probably. And if sal remembered it, it would likely come across as part of some ruse to her in this moment
Eh small potatoes, this was before Amber ended up stabbing Ryan ( right before she cut her connection to a Amazi-girl) so she should remember it. Either way a part of her still realizes this.
Remembers it, but it wasn’t actually her. She knows Amazi-Girl was reconciling with Sal, but her own emotions haven’t gone through the same process.
Who do I root for? The cynical jerk or the crazy jerk? Shades of gray are annoying!
Also, I hope someone interrupts these two before they end up with serious injuries.
I love that Ethan has little surprise lines, as if he zoned out about Transformers for a second and missed yesterday’s strip and only just here noticed Amber and Sal were fighting.
Personally, I can understand Sal here. She *was* spared the more serious legal consequences of the robbery, but her family basically kicked her out for the next five years. And boarding schools aren’t necessarily nice…
And I don’t think she’s necessarily thinks she did nothing wrong by trying to rob a store. It might just be her resentment talking…
Don’t forget too that being shipped off to a boarding school in another state took her away from Marcie, right when Sal probably thought she needed her more than ever.
Here she is, desperately trying to help her one friend, and her parents not only stop her efforts, they physically send her too far away to be able to help her any further.
Don’t know what the boarding school was like and getting away from her mother might have otherwise been a relief; but being sent away from Marcie? That was likely a far larger punishment.
Ugh….. and this is why Sal has never been a favorite of mine.. there she goes playing the victim again . “ oh my childhood sucked and everything is so unfair “. Boo fricken hoo…. Newsflash kiddo, other people have messed up childhood is well and parents that makes yours seem like the most ideal want you can get . Good lord this girl can be so full of herself, That being said, I really hope that Amber does not go all berserker rage, or Sal might be dead .
I agree with Sal having a victim complex, but the statement that her parents are a best case scenario is really wrong. Linda is a racist scumbag that treats Sal as an unwanted kid.
Oh I know, her parents are terrible, Linda is kinda the worst. I admit I over exaggerated a bit. I still seen worse… but not much.
“You can’t be angry about your circumstances because other people have it worse than you!” is possibly one of the worst takes. She’s not even “playing the victim”. She was stabbed five years ago: she was the victim!
Nope, she was stabbed as a direct result of threatening to murder a kid over a few bucks in a gas station.
She was *not* a victim.
No, she was stabbed as a result of Blaine being an abusive shitheel who berated Amber until she snapped because she was too afraid to defend Ethan. Sal had already been arrested and restrained. That was not self defence or defence of a third party, and so not an appropriate reason to stab someone. Yes, Sal was a victim. Amber and Ethan were also her victims. The robbery is fun like that.
Oh, I get it, it’s that kind of morality that says “If something bad happens to you, and you’re less than perfect, then you must have deserved it.”
Lost your health insurance and got sick? Should have worked harder.
Got raped? What were you wearing?
Got stabbed while defenseless? Shouldn’t have threatened that girl’s friend.
Got your baby kidnapped by the government you were begging for help? Shouldn’t have crossed the border.
That morality creates and promotes sickness in the world.
Ethan was Sal’s victim. Sal was Amber’s victim.
Porto, Sal was absolutely a victim. The robbery and threats don’t negate that. You can do bad things and still be a victim of you’re stabbed needlessly.
*If
Never said she couldn’t be angry about it, a person will feel how they feel. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
However, how she decides to channel that anger is what is kind of destroying her life. It lead to Marcie getting hurt (or at least it is implied), it lead to her starting crime to try and get some quick money, while her mother is a monster, she could have chosen another path, but she didn’t. It is currently alienating her from Marcie and into the arms of a person who as abrasive as sandpaper, and probably other times too.
She may have been a victim, but in the end, it was her choice in doing all the things above, she wasn’t forced, it was her own doing.
So you can feel sorry for her if you like, (or don’t I ain’t the boss of you) I do not and feel unless she really changes, she is going to continue to make terrible mistakes and blame everyone one else and life when there are times when it was just her fault.
And I quote:
“there she goes playing the victim again “oh my childhood sucked and everything is so unfair “. Boo fricken hoo…. Newsflash kiddo, other people have messed up childhood is well and parents that makes yours seem like the most ideal want you can get . Good lord this girl can be so full of herself”
Please, explain to me how that’s not you saying Sal can’t be angry about her circumstances, by suggesting that Sal being upset about her circumstances is being full of herself and dismissing all of her complaints and concerns because people have it worse than her. You may find a lot of fault with Sal’s current actions and don’t think anything she does is justified, fine, that’s fair. But the sheer lack of sympathy or empathy that you hold while diminishing the affects that racial prejudice and emotional abuse have had on a child, and telling an abused child “boo hoo, suck it up” is absolutely repulsive and morally bankrupt.
Easily, I never told her how to feel, (mostly because she doesn’t exist)a person will feel what they feel, I can’t nor won’t tell a person otherwise. I can call them on their BS though, and her continuing to blame everyone except herself for everything will do her more harm than good. Also, I technically didn’t tell her to suck it up (mostly because she doesn’t exist),
Now you do have a couple good points, she has had a rough life, being discriminated against because of her race, her sex, who she sees as friends, and having crap parents. Those are things that can’t be controlled and those suck. However, her actions after all that are the main things I am calling her out on. She didn’t need to go and join a gang that robbed people and businesses, she didn’t need to hold up a gas station, she didn’t need to pick fights with Amazagirl, and she certainly didn’t need to start this fight. The worst stuff that has happened to her, she caused herself, and she can try and play the blame game all she wants, but unless she starts taking responsibility and actually try to make her life better like Marcie has, she will just end up getting into worse trouble until something of real consequence happens.
I find me calling out her BS far more kinder than your cuddling, something Sal wouldn’t take anyway.
I don’t see how I am in any way coddling Sal by acknowledging that abuse is abuse, something you had immediately dismissed in your first post. You could have simply addressed her actual behaviors and actions like you’ve done here, but you framed your very first argument about Sal playing victim because she did not have as bad of a situation as she possibly could have and that is bullshit. Notice how no one else on this entire thread ever went “other people have been abused too, Sal, god” but that’s the exact sentiment your post reads as. If you want to argue about Sal refusing to take responsibility for her own actions, fine, I will also acknowledge that Sal has a tendency of dodging responsibility, like when Marcie confronted her on getting into fights. But don’t diminish the circumstances that exist in her life just because you don’t care for her personally.
That’s all I wanted, though if it makes you feel better I ain’t a fan of Amber either.
I can leave it at this, both girls are going through a life that is tougher than it needs to be and I will admit, catalysts aren’t their fault. I am more worried that if they don’t get actual help, things aren’t going to get better. You are right, I think Sal kinda sucks, but I was kinda happy when she started friending Danny and Ethan (two of my fave characters) Because I thought they could be a good influence on her, and I guess I got disappointed when I saw she was going back into bad habits when she saw Amber. (and for what it is worth I don’t blame her for being sore about the hand). I will leave this at that.
:/
You know, I said this a lot back when Sal’s childhood flashbacks were happening, but I’ll say it again: abuse is not a competition. Sal was explicitly abused by her parents, and maybe it wasn’t “as bad” as Amber’s abuse, but it was still abuse. And to dismiss her, and anyone else with similar circumstances’ abuse, with “boo fricken hoo other people had it worse” is absolutely deplorable. Try some empathy next time.
No thanks. I am good with what I said and I stand by it.
Sort of a sideline to all the “Amber’s a monster” “No, Sal’s the monster” talk, but I’m actually surprised and impressed that Amber isn’t in a berserker rage here. I’d fully expected her to go all red rage if a fight started, but she seems to still be in control. And without Amazi-Girl intervening either.
That’s a big positive step for her. She hasn’t fought without that before and faced with her big trigger too. This might not turn out so bad psychologically as I’d feared. (Now that I’ve said that, next strip will of course be her losing it completely.)
Hm, you think she’s not in a berserker mode? I’d say they both are right now…
Sal maybe is, but Amber hasn’t gotten that crazy smile yet, where she just doesn’t care anymore. When she gets that smile, watch out.
Ah, I see, so all their mutualfriends are going to appear as witnesses. Probably alky last. Will they choose sides or will the two hit each other and vent and just end up one big sobbing pile?
I don’t trust any of them to stick up for Sal if they’re called to be witnesses. Maybe Danny, but he’d be more conflicted than assertive I think. Sucks to say, but it might end up legally better for Sal when the cops/security show up if she’s the one who gets beaten down.
I’m very much on Sal’s side in this particular confrontation, and the fact she doesn’t know about Amber’s psychological issues attenuates a lot of what she says, but I will point out that her “hurt nobody” assumes that only physical pain counts. Which admittedly seems mostly due to rage, given that her conversation with Ethan suggests she realises that non-physical trauma is a thing, but still. Seriously, you only stole nothing because you couldn’t.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again–Willis may have renounced his evangelical Christian roots but he has a deeper sense of original sin than any other cartoonist I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading.
This is why Eye of God perspective stories make me nervous.
Here we have two characters duking it out completely justified in their own minds, and if the story was from one person’s perspective we’d all be like “here’s the big fight, I wonder what’s gonna happen”
But no, instead we’ve got “Oh no, you two stop fighting! You don’t understand what’s happened, Sal was desperate to earn money for Surgery and/or ambulance fees for her friend, whilears of emotional, mental and possibly physical abuse combined with the pressure of the situation caused a psychotic break in Amber and catalyzed a series of dissociative episodes, with the image of you holding the knife serving as a kind of trigger sending her into panic. Please understand and be friends!”
Anytime we have information characters we care about don’t it’s painful, because no matter how loud we scream at or screens they never hear us. It’s like watching trains carrying fuel tankers speeding towards each other. Now that their in the situation there’s no way to stop it. Hopefully they just kind of smoosh together and come to a stop and they don’t go up in a ball of hellfire that destroys them and everything around them.
TL;DR I’m unhappy that I care about these characters.
This is a perspective I can get behind.
I have to wonder, did Sal break Amber’s glasses in that last panel? It kind of looks like her left lens is cracked. Sucks considering she just got a new pair like a week ago.
Poor Dorothy, yet again trapped behind a panel of glass, watching something horrible go down 🙁
Dorothy is being very #relatable for me right now because I am also interrupting my studies to watch this fight unfold! I’m pretty sure I made that same face while reading this strip for the first time, too.
She is a good reader avatar that way.
All we need is Walky and Marcy here and the full-range of concerned friends and lovers would be present.
We also need Joyce, who loves Sal’s hair.
(Geez, Joyce would have a field day with this scenario.)
Joyce would not stand at the sidelines – she would be between them by now.
I’m not sure what would happen after that, though.
Both of them get O.H.K.O., then a stern scolding when they come to.
Dina too. She’s not a lover but she’s in the know about Amber/Amazi-Girl.
I got so caught up in reading everyone else’s comments, and considering proper replies to them, that I forgot my original intended comment:
BAM!
Which I thought would be easy to interpret–but, in reading other’s comments, I’m sure it’s not. But it was my reaction to this strip–what Sal says is a more powerful blow than the physical ones she is landing on Amber. I’ve NOT gotten the impression that Sal is always playing the victim. She has been putting on a tough exterior and rarely speaking about her resentments. What Goki says–“other people have messed up childhoods as well”–is what I’ve heard so often from privileged people who can’t understand what it’s like to be on the receiving end of racism.
No Sal she just had Blaine as a father.
Actually, Blaine left a bit after that, probably to distance himself from her, so she got rewarded.
I continue to support Sal this chapter.
I continue to be team ‘these two dummies are giving me a migraine and keeping me up way later than I should be, and I kinda wanna shake both of them, but I mostly feel bad for both of them and want this to stop before it gets even less constructive.’
This is *so* getting worse before it gets better.
I’m afraid it’s going to get worse before it gets worse.
This is Willis. It’s going to bet better before it gets much, much worse.
Danny is sitting there thinking “Oh god why didn’t I actually leave faster?”
And I feel like sal’s feelings about boarding school are being understated here. The way it’s been told, her parents more or less disowned her. We know Walky never got to visit and it seems like they didn’t even keep in touch all that much. I can’t blame Sal if she felt like an inmate while weathering 5 years of that.
Willing to bet she didn’t get to see Marcie during it either. 🙁
And she had to learn escapology, don’t forget that.
i just realized sals wound must haven taken a LONG time to heal.. possibly during a hospital stay. and in that time she must have had to deal with parents. and police… shit
Yeah, everywhere I’ve looked said ‘Knife through the hand? Yeah, that’s at least one surgery and a ton of physical therapy, good luck with that.’.
Hands are where tendons, muscles, nerves, ligaments, and tiny fragile bones live.
Oof yeah. All that surgery money she tried to save up for Marcie went to herself instead.
Probably not. I suspect Sal would either 1) be covered under her parent’s health insurance, or 2) would be covered by the government. (After all, she was stabbed while in police custody. I do think the cops would have a duty to protect her while restrained, and a failure to do so would mean the government could be liable for her injuries as a result.)
Yeah the cops involved dropped the ball big time. I suspect the police and city bent over backwards to get this entire situation taken care of as quietly and quickly as possible. Wouldn’t be surprised if the cop holding the knife initially was let go or encouraged to leave.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the Walkertons managed to maneuver their failure into the choice between juvie and the catholic school.
Given that Sal’s question might be answered, “Yes – one told me I was weak and worthless and has tormented me ever since,” I kind of want the Amazi-Girl persona to come forward and give Sal an exposition dump in the most surreal, uncomfortable way possible. Like, she puts Sal in a hold and then says in the Amazi-Girl voice: “Listen, I’m sorry Amber picked a fight, but you gotta understand she’s been going through some shit…”
I’m kinda surprised nobody has tried to break up this fight yet. I thought Ethan might do so, but I guess not.
Ethan has his passive side. Unless Transformers are involved.
It’s only been a few seconds! Give the man time to react!
Also this isn’t just, like, a slap-fight. This is a full-out, knock-down, drag ’em out fight between an experienced fighter and someone who is holding their own against them.
Anyone would hesitate to jump into the middle of that, especially if they were caught flat-footed. Fight, flight, and freeze, and all that; pretty sure Ethan’s stuck in “freeze” right now. :/
Also, Like… It is weirdly hard to walk into something like that even under controlled circumstances. Back when I was in martial arts, I remember our sensei sparring against about three of us at the same time, and we ended up almost entirely fighting him one at a time. My brain was like “come on, try to hit him while he’s busy with someone else” and my body was like “fuck no”.
That’s why Ninja armies always lose.
To be fair, Sal, you did hurt people. It’s just that the damage you did is invisible. Then again, a lot of the pain being expressed in this particular comic today seems like it isn’t to do with the stabbing or with Amber, it’s with the damage Sal’s own parents did to her.
And just because Sal did cause trauma to two kids doesn’t mean *she* deserved the trauma of being stabbed through the hand, the endless physical therapy after at least one major surgery, and what has to be continued physical pain and reduced use of her hand. What Amber did was fucked up, and Sal has good reason to hold onto a grudge here. It must have been even easier to put the anger and the unhappiness at her parents’ complete dereliction of duty on this complete stranger she never saw again, who as far as she knows (and as far as I remember) wasn’t even arrested for assaulting a helpless person in police custody.
I really, really hope no one calls the campus police, because Sal doesn’t deserve to be arrested and face consequences while Amber gets off scot-free again, and I don’t see that going any other way if it happened. I’d rather they have gotten into a fight in private if they had to, and I have a rather distant, dismal hope that this ends up cathartic and with some feelings resolved and understanding shared rather than a complete, flaming disaster.
Basically, I am clawing at my face with frustrated feeling, so good job, Willis.
I’m pretty sure Sal means she didn’t physically hurt anybody. If she thought there was nothing really wrong with what happened, I don’t think she’d have been as awkward or said Ethan’s kindness was more than she deserved earlier.
Yes, that’s a fair reading. I’m still flailing my hands at this complete turnaround of warm, happy feelings of her and Ethan speaking. I should have known it couldn’t last.
Yeah, the Willis is a fickle and wrathful god.
I know Sal doesn’t know about Blaine but oof
Next strip: Danny jumps in between them, they both punch him at the same time, he turns to — what? The comment section already made that joke? Dammit. Oh well, I’ll just leave this here.
MARTHAAAAA
Oh damn you beat me to it….also you are my humor soulmate.
Can I also say Danny and Ethan’s little nonverbal conversation in the background is great? They’re like, “What the hell?” “What do we do?” “I have no idea, I’m panicking as much as you are!”
Well being that Danny outweighs both by at least 15 kilos and Ethan looks to be at least 90 kilos they could physically grab Sal and Amber and stop this fight but that’d be the boring option
Danny was able to pull Amber off Blaine last time she lost it
Given that both girls are trained serious fighters and neither Danny nor Ethan have ever given any indication they are, I wouldn’t rely on a little weight advantage.
I’m sure both of them know how to use an amateurs weight against them.
In fact, we’ve seen them both handing out beatdowns to people bigger than either Ethan or Danny.
That said, they probably could, but that’s because neither Amber nor Sal would be willing to hurt them, assuming they didn’t do so accidentally or reflexively. Which would probably also bring the fight to close.
you seem real determined to hang onto this ‘men are automatically stronger than women’ thing and it’s not a good look.
Men are generally stronger than women and Ethan has a serious size advantage as well. Normally that would really help.
Both of these women are serious badasses though and it’s not like this is a particularly realistic comic.
Seriously, it’s just exhausting to read.
Well, for me anyway, it takes me out of the seriousness of the story. Like drama is happening and its serious (which I like) and then Sal pulls off some Fast & Furious level stunt work on her bike which makes the story a bit goofy and lessens the impact of the drama or Amber happily goes looking for groups of crims to beat up on without a second thought
Added to that we’ve already seen Danny be able to pull Amber off Blaine when she was really giving it to Blaine so its not an unreasonable expectation to expect him and Ethan to do that here
I guess its harder for me to rationalize the serious real life aspects of the comic with the superhero parts especially that we’ve seen a good example of real life fighting, Ruth using Blaines size and momentum to throw him and the after effects of that move
I get the whole wish fulfillment thing with watching girls beat up multiple guys but it just bugs me watching completely unrealistic things happen
Also its not just a female thing either, John Wick is (imho) the best action movie and sequel ever made (a case could be made for The Raid:Redemption and The Raid 2), the stunt work and choreography is the some of the best I’ve ever seen but even that has some things that take me out of the movie (John Wick hits so many head shots…)
Now if it turns out Sal and Amber actually are superheros or mutants or something then that’d fine because it’d explain why they can defy the laws of physics and such like
I’d read Danny pulling her off Blaine as more interrupting her focus and making her stop long enough to get her control back rather than actually being able to physically restrain her.
Yeah thats not a bad point
I’m not rooting for anyone. Subdue both these menaces to themselves and others immediately.
I’m sad and frustrated, because while yes, Sal and Amber have both definitely wronged each other, the people who pushed them to these extremes and wrong them the most are their parents. (That’s not to say bad parenting exempts them from responsibility, but Linda and Blaine share it for putting their daughters in these impossible situations.) But if, for whatever reason, you’re unable to confront your parent (or you do and it doesn’t help), that rage still wants an outlet.
OH FUCK
*grabs popcorn*
I guess what confuses me the most about all this is that both characters seemingly have no problem acknowledging that they both have psychological issues that have been festering for…a bit. So the solution to that is…wanton fistfights? Instead of, you know, THE GOSH DARN CAMPUS THERAPIST
Sal, see a therapist willingly?
That’s funny. You’re funny.
I’m not even sure of these guys’ student status. What are they – freshmen? Sophomores? Regardless, even first-day freshman would/should know that getting into public fistfights in the middle of campus is, well, not a fantastic idea at all in general but a very fantastic way to get expelled off said campus. It’s like, c’mon guys, you’re in unviersity; use your thinkers.
I suppose I just wish that every time their prefrontal cortex and amygdala got in fights, the cortex wouldn’t *always* catch it right in the metaphorical nuts.
Sal does not have a mental disorder and does not need a therapist. She needs some good, supportive friends and family.
My mother has been dealing with mental problems via therapy for decades, and they honestly have not done much for her; there is very little they could do for Sal.
Amber is mentally ill (albeit, with an illness that has been stricken from the DSM because too many psychiatrists were using it to abuse patients and defraud insurance companies,) and thus is a good candidate for medication.
I’m not sure how damaging all this was for her. She was stabbed in her hand, uprooted and abandoned by her family at the age of 13. I’d be surprised if she didn’t have any mental scars from that.
For me, therapy was a lifesaver. It helped me get from a dysfunctional wreck to a happy human being. And I bet a good therapist sal trusts could achieve much. Anger control for example. Sadly, I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
In my opinion, medication can be a useful tool to help stabilising but shouldn’t be a long-term solution if it is in any way avoidable. Amber needs to learn self-respect, self-love, self-care, she needs to heal her trauma and her two personalities must become one again. Medication will achieve none of this.
It’s not clear to me what if any medication helps with DID. That’s a long term process and in general doesn’t actually lead to the personalities becoming one again. They do need to get back to communicating and cooperating though.
Her PTSD (for lack of a formal diagnosis) should be easier to treat, though still a serious project. Again, not sure there’s a simple medication approach to that. Even in the short term.
Sal’s had therapists and had bad experiences with them. How much that was due to them being bad therapists and how much her distrust of authority isn’t entirely clear. She could definitely use more therapy, but she’ll need to come to that herself.
Okay, I know a few things about ptsd and stumbled across did here and there (since the two are strongly connected), but never bothered to look deeply into did because it doesn’t affect me. My understanding is that those identities usually are created by deep traumas (hence the link to ptsd) and that they can be reintegrared into one whole person. No guarantee for success though, requires to deal with the initial trauma and is not to be confused with being cured, because you’ll always be prone to generating new identities.
Medication can soften ptsd symptoms but won’t heal you. The moment you stop taking them, you’ll be in the same spot as you have been before you started medication. I don’t know how difficult treating did is, but learning to live with ptsd can be a lifelong task.
There’s two ways to integrate. I don’t have it either but quite a few users here have had it and they’ve made comments that helped
One, what I call the fusion model, is bringing all the alters back into one person. This is not easy (most alters don’t take kindly to what’s often viewed as trying to kill them). It requires a lot of respect for each individual alter and what they bring to the table. It’s also far more easy for this model to disintegrate and have all the alters back (plus possible new ones) under stress.
The other is the committee model. Think Inside Out. This is where all the alters are talking, sharing memories and more or less working together for common goals (even if they have different ideas on how best to attain said goals). This one is becoming more common nowadays as it tends to get less pushback from the alters.
And yeah, meds don’t generally solve DID (though they can help things that are often comorbid with DID), but therapy can be very effective.
This. Healthy integration requires consent. Co-operation is a valid alternative (and a good step towards integration if they want it). There’s no medication that will take away the need to do that work.
Also, there are anxiety/depression meds that speed up the effects of therapy; there are also those that *inhibit* change. IIRC most SSRIs and SNRIs help, whereas benzos just shut everything down.
I thought that the co-operation was another model of integration? I’m pretty sure that’s what Cerberus told me.
maybe we’re working with different definitions of “integration”? I tend to use it as meaning “only one personality remains (at least from the therapist’s pov” whereas you seem to be using it as “stable, functional system”. I can’t quite remember how other people use the word now.
Inahc — the way you’re using it represents something unhealthy for the person with DID (per Cerberus).
Therapy is not restricted to mentally ill people. There are innumerable benefits that anyone can get from therapy, including something that would be incredibly useful right now: conflict management. I’m sorry that it doesn’t seem to have helped your mother, but that does not in any way indicate how well it would help anyone else, especially considering that patients and therapists are all unique individuals.
+2000
1) what the final pam said
2) DID is very much still in the DSM. i think you either got bad information or were confused by the name change from MPD to DID.
3) what makes you think sal has no form of mental illness? i could easily see her as a candidate for CPTSD.
Yup. And DDNOS got renamed OSDD (with some subcategories) several years ago.
And sadly there’s still plenty of misinformation out there… But at least the wikipedia article no longer implies it’s completely made up. (Ugh, but it still has some awful crap in it… I’m not even gonna finish reading it… And haven’t seen any mention of OSDD there, even though there’s a whole section in BPD?!)
Lol, the goshdarned campus therapist… you mean the half a dozen of psychology student that take turns while hitting on patients?
They seem to have gotten a good start with Ruth. And Dorothy’s been seeing one too, with no complaints.
Ruth might be putting on a brave face. She did manage to hide her depression for a while. I think it’s too soon to tell with Dorothy. For all we know, she’s the next Amazigirl.
Okay. I mean, she’s still depressed. It’s only been a couple weeks. So yeah, she’s putting on a brave face.
That doesn’t mean her therapy is useless or worse.
I’m just gonna ask this, cuz I really wanna know, not defending anyone, but how is linda(aka sal’s mom) racist? Can I get references from other strips to demonstrate this? I’m just curious really.
I don’t think Linda is a conscious racist/classist. She judges Marcie on the basis of her being an illegal and Sal’s friendship with her invites all of the perceived problems with illegals into her family life and the reputation of her family.
Calling children “illegal s”, as a noun, is such a cringefest.
Any adjative can be nouned. It’s a rule.
Yeah, but sometimes it’s also a slur.
doesn’t make it not dehumanizing when used on marginalized groups (“gays”, “blacks” or my personal favourite, “trans”)
I don’t think she’s concisely racist now let me refer to a child in a super racist way to prove it.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/villainy/
Besides the literal text that Willis has written, stating that the Walkertons have racial biases when it comes to their children?
Linda assumes that Sal’s Mexican friend is going to grow up to be a criminal and knock down convenience stores and ultimately be a bad influence on her, to the point where she takes away money Sal was explicitly saving up to help pay for Marcie’s medical bills.
She has extreme favoritism towards Walky, something he, Sal, and Billie have all noted is because he is ‘generically beige’ as opposed to Sal’s black.
Sal’s dad says that she looks prettier with straight hair, implying she doesn’t look pretty with her natural hair.
You don’t have to be explicitly hateful to be racist.
*braces for BBCC impact*
I’m choosing to believe that OP isn’t malicious and so will answer their question seriously:
A) Not Linda, but her husband insults Sal’s natural hair to her face. Other than hi and bye, that’s pretty much the only thing either of them said to her when she saw them at Parent’s Weekend.
B) We still have yet to see a strip where Linda speaks to Sal without being a dick. Including one where Sal is a very small child doing the same thing Walky is doing (running around and laughing) but she only raises her voice at Sal. (“David! SALLY!”)
C) Choosing Walky for opportunities over Sal, even when the opportunity is supposed to be for both of them (Linda could have said ‘No, I’m sorry, you told me both my kids could try out. Good bye. Come on, kids, we’re going home’ instead of choosing between her kids. It’s not like the upper middle class Walkertons need to supplement their income with their kids acting).
D) Pretty much anything she’s ever said about Marcie. She’s a ‘little vagabond’ who’s going to knock over convenience stores to get mommy’s attention (projecting much?) because she was – shock, horrors – climbing to the top of playground equipment like many five year olds do. She also told Sal that Marci was going to grow up to be a hoodlum because she lived with hoodlums, and she was someone who Sal should drop (…right after she lost her voice. Yeah, Linda has issues with ableism and classism too. She’s a shit sandwich).
There’s probably more, but I barely slept last night so I’ll let others field that.
Thank you for answering my question but Linda doesn’t seem to be racist but a classist who has favoritism towards her son than her daughter. She is a rare breed of bigotry. Though the beige thing is all kinds of weird to me. Its like my brain can’t really process how someone could talk about their kids like that. Its like really really weird, if she said that beige comment I’d be like “What on earth are you talking about? What does that even mean?”
Classism and racism intersect, but Linda is definitely also racist. This isn’t really up for debate, especially from someone who has admitted to needing sources from other readers. You lack the familiarity with the character to argue about something that hasn’t been shown in just one or two strips but has been demonstrated over a long time, a LOT of strips, a lot of subtle comments that have all added up.
Furthermore, you’re arguing against Word of God, which means your argument is with Willis, not with BBCC, and Willis is unlikely to entertain this argument for the quadrillionth time so I would not take it up with him.
Either accept the fact or don’t, but don’t think you’ll get much mileage out of arguing with other readers or the creator that something like this isn’t true.
I apologize and just thought more about it today and yes your right and I’m sorry for my reply and thank you for helping me answer my question.
You’re welcome.
I wish I could get as high as Claire is at the moment and forget this story arc ever happened :'(
I mean her dad was a physically and emotionally abusive shit wad and likely the reason she snapped in the first place. And yeah amber was completely unjustified in stabbing her but when your abusive dad basically kept calling her a coward for doing nothing and was constantly putting her down. And yunno maybe she didn’t hurt anyone but amber was terrified and sal held Ethan at knife point so all that combined I get why amber snapped
Whooo boy…Not on Sal’s side…then again, I’m not on Amber’s side neither…
This is such a bad time. 🙁
I’m on both their sides.
I’m disappointed by both of them. 🙁
Both Amber and Sal have serious emotional problems and anger management issues. Neither have healthy outlets for said problems. Also both of them are self-centered, reckless and thoughtless about the consequences of their actions.
I agree completely- especially the part about being self-centered. Not in the sense that they are greedy but in the sense that they lack empathy to understand why someone else feels the way they do.
And I feel like it’s all to common in modern-society, so that everyone believes they are so obviously in the right and anyone who doesn’t agree with them must somehow be broken.
So… I’m betting on Sal winning this fight, only to look across the courtyard and see Marcie with a look of profound anger and disappointment on her face. What’s your prediction?
Originally I predicted it ending in a draw after some back and forths and then after they were done kicking the piss out of each other and venting the two break down in tears and hug it out.
Eh, I’m warming up to Sal’s side of the issue. Amber stabbed her in the hand and no one said boo. Regardless of the mental state of Amber, I think the main point of contention is “would Amber have been let off for that if she wasn’t white”
Amber stabbed her in the hand in front of cops, while Sal was in their custody. Someone should have said something to somebody about that flagrant an assault.
Wait, no Sal. You do not get to play the victim. Ya the stalking was weird and if you were JUST mad about those I would understand.
And I would understand being weary off the girl who stabbed you, but you can’t downplay your crime. You tried to steal am something and as far as she knows you were planning on hurting someone.
I could understand it if she admitted that it was dumb, she would never do it as she is now and is angry for being treated as a criminal after she was already punished for it, but trying to make it seem like no big deal proves that she didn’t learn her lesson escepially since she’s making it seem like her punishment was something out of her control and not a direct result of her own actions.
Sal’s not saying “I didn’t do anything wrong but you did, so how come you got away with it and I got punished?”. She’s saying “we both did something bad that night but, out of the two of us, you’re the one who physically hurt someone so how come you didn’t get punished at all?”. It’s a subtle difference but it’s still important to note that Sal does regret the robbery, she does regret holding Ethan hostage ans all that. She acknowledges that her punishment was a result of her own actions. She’s just peeved because, as far as she knows, Amber wasn’t punished for hers.
As far as WE know Amber wasn’t. Like, Blaine was going to be a total shit forever regardless so you can hardly count that as an actual consequence of stabbing Sal (hell, I’d be surprised if he had a negative response to it).
I’d be surprised if Blaine had a positive response to anything. Whatever Amber did was going to get twisted against her. Here she likely got him a lot of police attention and trouble and hassle. Damn right he’s going to turn that against her.
Yeah, Amber may not have received any sort of parental or legal sanction, but I can almost guarantee Blaine did not react well to that.
Projecting her anger at her parents onto Amber.
In Sal’s defense, when she realized who Ethan was, she immediately went back and apologized. She wanted to make amends.
Amber has known who Sal was for a long time, but didn’t apologize. She hung out with Sal *despite* knowing who she was, without bringing things into the open.
Well, I mean, Amazi-Girl did. Amber’s been avoiding her since Day One.
Not that Sal has any idea about any of that.
Amber played Mario Kart with Sal a time or two, so she hasn’t been 100% avoiding Sal.
All they did was make her life a living hell so that, by the time that the two of you first met, she was waiting to have her very first psychotic episode.
The irony is, Miss Walkerton, that you and Amber O’Malley are more alike than I believe either of you would ever admit.
Uhm, yeah, about that whole “no stealing”…
Amber doesn’t know (and can’t call Sal out on it), but Sal seems to have forgotten that while she may not have physically stolen stuff herself, she was part of a group that did steal several thousand dollars, and did get her share of the profits (them probably using her notwithstanding).
So, as much as Sal has some point her (though she severely underestimates the consequences for Amber), the “stole nothing” simply isn’t true.
And you know, was attempting to steal at the time. Just not being able to pull it off doesn’t give much moral high ground.
And she threatened Ethan and put his life at risk, even if she didn’t actually intend to hurt him or wind up doing so physically.
It’s amazing how somehow people try to pass off “incompetence” as a mitigating factor in criminal enterprises and politics. But I repeat myself.
Yeaaaah, I love you to bits, Sal, but you don’t get to claim moral superiority. You didn’t steal anything because the store’s security system foiled you, not because you decided against it. And, after being given an easy out by what must be the NICEST store clerk to have ever existed ever anywhere, your decision was to hold a knife to a kid’s throat.
Team no-one is solidly in the lead.
well except that she kinda does because the situation was already under control when Amber lashed out.
kind of a “Don’t kick them when they’re down” thing
Amber is embodying her own failings into Sal, while Sal is rightfully angry she was kicked (and scarred for life mind you) while she was down
I’m firmly on Sal’s side here, Amber actions in the convenience store were inexcusable.
Mind you so were Sal’s, but we do tend to punich the consquences more than the intent, and only 1 of them created permanent physical consequences.
Ethan was the one taken hostage and he seems to be healing much better than Amber, who clearly needs psychological help
But one of them created (or exacerbated at least) permanent psychological consequences. Dismissing those isn’t really fair either.
…both of them created longterm psychological consequences
lets not pretend getting stabbed only hurts you physically
I don’t think she is claiming moral superiority so much as saying that Amber, who did actually physically hurt someone (which is generally seen as worse in the law than if something was traumatic but didn’t cause physical injury) received no sanction while Sal did. Which, again, isn’t exactly nice, but it is a valid point.
Oooooh, and “did your parents do anything at all?” is funny, considering Amber’s father is the current uncontested lead for not only Shittiest Parent but also Shittiest Person in the comic. I mean, if there’s ANYONE that can make Linda look… well, not GOOD, but, y’know, merely awful, Blaine’s it.
Of course, Sal has no way to know this. Pass the popcorn.
Toedad abducted his daughter at gunpoint to put her in a gay conversion camp so “uncontested” is a massive stretch in my eyes.
Blaine wins (“wins”) over Ross because while Ross is an undeniable piece of shit he thought he was helping Becky (he wasn’t, and he forever remain a piece of shit), whereas Blaine is an undeniable piece of shit that hurt Amber on purpose for his own sadistic glee.
Don’t get me wrong, the only use for either of them is as an adornment to a truck’s grill, applied at high speed, but in the splitting of hairs Blaine comes out ahead.
Nah, intent isn’t magic like that.
On the other hand Blaine is involved with an international crime syndicate. He’s probably done things we can’t imagine. Honestly, when Yuri was introduced, I was relieved to find out she was the boss’s daughter and not someone he literally bought.
I don’t think she’s the boss’s daughter. And the implication is that she’s been his mistress for most of Amber’s life, which has the creepy implications she pointed out.
I think someone did the math way back when, and Yuri was indeed a minor. So Blaine can add either “groomer” or “pedophile” to his resume, if not both.
Amber said Faz was born when Yuri was a teenager. She says if Blaine is Faz’s bio dad, he knocked up a teenager and she doesn’t really want to add more issues involving her dad than she already has.
I don’t think anyone can have done the math, since we don’t actually know Yuri’s age.
Amber does say “with a teenager”, but that ranges from legal but creepy, to 20 to life.
Tell her your mom’s name is Martha too!
Friggin’ winner right here.
And then they can go talk it over over a jar of Granny’s Peach Tea while dining on the flesh of drowned horses.
Why do you say that name?
My prediction is that Danny tries to get between them and ends up hit by both of them. He seems like the one who’d have the most emotional impact between them if he gets injured, as they both have strong ties to him.
I think Sal is gonna cream Amber and then regret it. Especially if Marcie sees.
How can I not be on Sal’s side after an alt-text reference like -that-?
All we need now is Dina and Walky and the circle’s complete.
Gods though, I imagine campus security is gonna step in.
Campus security at the in-comic IU is a joke.
The fight may have been going on for, what, a minute at most? I doubt they have security posted at every building, and its possible the fight hasn’t even been reported yet.
I’d say only about 15 seconds, fights happen fast and a lot can happen in a
short period of time.
In real life, if you saw people you know get into each other like this, what would you do?
As far as things have escalated now, what options to stop them are there?
Getting between them?
Agree with someone and you both grab one of the opponents from behind and forcibly separate them?
Trow in some pepper spray?
Water bombs?
…?
Firehose.
place bets
It depends on just how totally committed to the fight they are and how likely they are to listen to me. Some people so lose themselves in their anger that attempting to intervene will only lead to you being targetted too.
Put tape over my mouth so I don’t start chanting, “Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!”
Like, dude, they are clearly already fighting and you are helping in no way.
And yet the urge remains.
Do you really think there is nothing effective you can do?
? I think you misunderstood my comment, or I’m misunderstanding yours. Either way, mine was largely meant as a joke.
Get my phone out and start recording
Pick em up by the back of the neck and hold em apart.
But I’m Ethan-sized, so I have extra options.
Addendum: I just noticed that only Sal’s blows get a red background. Amber’s legsweep and flying kick (and her blocked punch here) have a normal background.
I did not notice that. Think that means something?
Normally those backgrounds imply a major trigger of anger or rage from the character expressing it. So, in that moment, Sal is venting every last ounce of rage she’s got towards Amber and, all though violent, is quite honestly valid IMO. I don’t want to see them get hurt, but when it’s kept in for so long, it’s gonna get out. I do not condone it, but I also don’t condemn it happening. I’m personally more intrigued to see how Amber’s gonna lash back at Sal’s words, considering her background. Pretty sure we’re gonna be seeing a lot more red backgrounds…and then some.
“The girls need some fun and relaxation, they should go paint the town.”
*finger on the monkey paw curls*
“Wait, not red.”
So Danny and Dorothy are watching.
They are going to know how quickly amber and walky moved on.
How will the fight tell them?
The fight itself may not. But, Sal did make some sort of comment about “smoochin on my twin brother” before the fight. (Not sure if Danny was in ear shot of that or he was further away and returned once the fight started.)
Danny’s probably over it anyway. He’s a new man.
I try to avoid comment sections because [OBVIOUS], but I feel the need to underline what a few have been subtly saying, especially since there’s a lot of choosing sides here:
Counting up victim tokens is not a good way to decide who is right or wrong. And one having more than another, even “objectively,” does not indicate that someone is in the wrong. That also doesn’t mean both parties are wrong or right “in their own regards.”
People are just people. Conflict is just conflict. We’re all just atoms launched by uncontrollable circumstance and our trajectory leads us to crash into others.
Two young women got screwed over, and have screwed over countless others because we’re all knocking elbows on this overpopulated planet. It’s ugly and beautiful, it’s cool and it sucks.
So have fun analyzing, but don’t get too caught up in the how or the why. Willis write a powerful grey area. I believe that sometimes, the best way to enjoy that is to put down the interpersonal magnifying glass and allow conflict to occur without vilifying, exonerating, or heroizing.
In our ongoing strides to understand each other a little better, dissection may seem advantageous. But try to lighten the weight of action and consequence in your mind! Because once you learn to accept pain and strife with ease, you’ll find that it also becomes easier to forgive and move on. <:
Much love! And as always, thanks for the great story, Mr. Willis.
As much as I don’t want these two characters to be fighting. As much as I hate that this whole thing is going to blow up in both of their faces.
I want Sal to win. Sal is 100% justified here
Same, but I more want amber to beat the crap out of sal, mostly to just take the heat off sal. Cuz…this would definitely look bad on sal if she “won”
Kinda sucks to see some people want one of these girls to get hurt.
I’d really rather they don’t, and now that it’s kind of inevitable, I can’t really root for anyone. Except probably Ethan or Danny, please guys, someone stop them.
I don’t want them to get hurt, but Sal already demonstrated that this isn’t a fight with realistic injuries, so I’m not worried.
Adrenaline can cause you to ignore serious injuries during the moment. A friend of mine broke his arm during a sparring bout and didn’t realize it until an hour or two later when he was ordering a beer.
Also I have and have seen people take hits, accidents where someone should be broken and bleeding but aren’t. Although the morning after tends to be a killer.
Also Sal slid along that angled rail, which makes a huge difference.
even without adrenaline, weird things can happen. I sprained my ankle stepping off a curb, and it felt fine until several hours later when it suddenly started swelling up and hurting.
and now I have to worry about whether I’m being careful enough to avoid permanent injury or not… I *thought* I was, but then it started getting worse again, so now I’ve got crutches and I’m not expecting to do my own shopping for several more weeks, ugh 😛 I’m just glad I found a mug with a lid so I can have drinks at the computer.
but for the comic, I think we’re just running on superhero physics here.
Not exactly my point, though. I meant people rooting for one of them to win.
And this fight doesn’t look like a good argument could win it anymore.
Look, I think a lot of people in the comments are forgetting this. Neither of them know anything about the other. Amber doesn’t know that Sal was doing it to help her friend and didn’t plan on hurting anyone. Sal doesn’t know about Ambers abusive father and PSTD. If they did this would probably be playing out a lot differently, so for people to judge the both of them as if they both knew everything is kind of dumb.
I’m siding with Amber, but I don’t think she’s ‘correct’. Just a lighter shade of gray. I’d probably be harder on her if she wasn’t literally crazy.
please dont refer to mentally ill people struggling with trauma as crazy
So, I just found out that Sal’s hand injury had realistic consequences. Now I’m wondering why the railing smashing her ribs didn’t have more of an effect.
Me: wow this is, uh, a little scary and traumatic, let’s click that random button and find a happier comic
*clicks random button*
*goes back to december 2013*
Me: god damnit, why
Red panels, red panels everywhere.
I tried that too and it gave me August 17, 2014. It’s so ironic.
I’m more or less on Team Sal these days… I find it hard to empathize with Amber lately. I know, she’s mentally ill, still… I don’t know.
(that said, she’s not the only character I stopped rooting for lately. Dorothy annoys me with her preoccupation with work – and Billie has been behaving in an awful way ever since she moved to the other dorm)
Anyway, I’m wondering: would any of us be rooting for any of these two, if they were real-life people? I mean, not too long ago I’ve heard of a case when a teenage boy was assaulted on a street by a violent man. The result is that this boy is currently in a near-vegetative state, with his skull literally caved in (seriously, you can see that on his photos)… The question is: maybe Sal and Amber are exactly the type of people who will end up doing such things in the future (or other stuff, like abusing their spouses etc.? Maybe both of them are evil people who deserve no sympathy?
I just don’t know… As I mentioned yesterday, I sometimes think that there might be something wrong with your conscience / empathy, if you are willing to beat up another person…
I have rooted for costumed vigilantes in real life.
It definitely doesn’t make either of them look too good. If this helps uplift you understand that this is still a work of fiction. It’s highly dramaticised. These events are happening because it’s entertaining not necessarily because it will happen in real life. These characters are over the top and exaggerated despite DoA’s more realistic and contemporary tone.
It’s totally fair to see them as evil, but it is also just a comic.
Oh, it’s not like I’m feeling down because of this comic… I mean, I’m captivated and worried about the characters, but I’m not losing any sleep here 😉 It’s just that I’m wondering whether we’re not applying some double standard here?
I mean: all of us here worry for these girls, because we know their stories and we don’t see them as bad people. But… in real life, that guy who bashed that boy’s skull in? He surely has a story, too. But nobody’s is worrying about his past traumas. We hear about a guy like and we think: “Thug, needs to be locked up”. The same goes for football hooligans who engage in mass brawls, spousal abusers etc.
So… what’s the correct approach? Should we widen our perspectives and not judge real-life violent criminals? Or should we just say that Sal and Amber are also thugs and stop caring about them..? I honestly don’t know.
In other words: let’s say you meet someone who has violent tendencies similar to Sal’s. Would you associate yourselves with her, or decide you don’t want to be friends with someone like that?
I think it’s all about context. That guy you mentioned caved in a boy’s head. Sal hasn’t truly hurt anyone as far as we know, but then again we aren’t seeing the life of the thugs she and AG beat down are we? Amber did hurt Sal. So that weighs things against her in my opinion, because ultimately life is about how people are effected by the choices you make. That guy can never take back that boy’s life and Amber can never repair Sal’s hand. If Sal say, accidentally hurt Ethan with that knife? She couldn’t take that back either. She’s lucky enough that she still can.
I side with Sal mostly because she’s trying. That is important and I think you can forgive a violent criminal if they’re actively trying to improve. Everyone makes mistakes. Amber on the other hand seems to have given up. After stabbing Ryan she’s lost faith in herself to do the right thing and is embracing being garbage. She even taunted AG by threatening to kick kittens in costume. She needs to wake up and actively try to be the good person she pretends to be at night.
There’s also some other factors I’m confused on like Amber’s DID. How much is she responsible for AG at this point? Do her actions as AG make up for her actions as Amber? I’d say no myself, but I have no experience with that. Where is the line?
Tl:dr. Sal probably. Amber probably not.
“How much is she responsible for AG at this point?”
that’s a tricky one. Practically speaking, they kinda have to bear responsibility for each other’s actions since they share a body. Responsibility, but not *fault*.
untreated DID can easily make for shitty situations where everyone loses. :/
Sal’s mostly in control these days. She’s basically gotten in one fight with Malaya and now this. In addition to the more justified vigilante stuff.
Similarly with Amber (and Amazi-Girl).
The vigilante stuff is hard to map onto real life, since it essentially isn’t realistic enough. If I knew people who tried to do what Amazi-Girl and Sal have done, I’d be mourning them or visiting in the hospital, because that’s what happens when you go out to beat up larger numbers of bad guys.
I think we should have better, more affordable therapy for the people who want to improve (which definitely includes sal, and amber could probably be talked into it eventually since she just doesn’t think she deserves it). I think we should have more focus on helping people improve themselves instead of giving up on them and throwing them into jails that encourage them to get even worse.
victims don’t have to forgive the people who hurt them (let alone help fix them), but *society* should have ways of doing that. it’s a lot harder than just throwing them in prison, but I think it’s worth it. (and it might end up being more cost-effective in the long run, too.)
Sal wants to self improve, but I don’t think Sal would willingly see a therapist without one hell of an argument about it, bare minimum.
true, she’s seen a bunch of shitty therapists already :/ I wasn’t keen on them myself until my husband talked me into seeing one again for his sake and she was finally the right kind of person for me.
and like… a lot of this stuff can be learnt from books? and there are apps out there for some of it too? but the apps I’ve seen have been insufferable, and the books I tended to hate even when they helped. a lot of it is really not fun to work on :/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/beforesunrise/
This is what Amber has always wanted. A fight to resolve this. A fight where Sal can hurt her back.
I don’t really support either of these two right now, they’re being childish and self-destructive in a bad way (fighting in high-traffic area on-campus, loudly).
That said, I feel like I can get behind Sal more than Amber right now. Amber doesn’t seem to be fighting from a place of genuine fear/anger at Sal (as Amber/AG has been perfectly fine working alongside Sal without jumping her, and Ethan definitely just told Amber he talked with Sal without any violence so it’s not for his benefit). Certainly this is an in-the-moment reaction, but it seems to be rooted in “I’ve built up this chair-fort of assumptions about things and people, and you’re tearing it down by challenging those assumptions!”
I think the turning point for me is how Amber has been treating Ethan in all of this. She doesn’t really allow him any agency in these matters, even though he has as much (if not more) right to that agency as her. Her reaction to the news that Ethan found closure with Sal in a calm and mature manner? “But you didn’t think about how this affects ME!” When he calls her on it? “Let’s just change the subject rather than admit that I’ve been using you as an excuse/shield.” Amber’s been a really shitty friend to Ethan, especially recently. I know that probably comes from a place of mental illness, but that doesn’t excuse it.
Sal at least has some in-the-moment justification for her reaction. The person she’s been sabotaging her friendship with Marcy to blow off steam with turns out to be the one who CRIPPLED HER HAND while she was incapacitated and in custody. I’m sure that some of it is that she just spent idk how many spoons having a mature conversation with the other victim that day (who is there and can vouch for her mature reaction) only to have the one who STABBED HER react as if her angry face is an imminent threat to the person she’s not even mad at. I’m sure it also reeks of racism from Sal’s point of view.
That said, she’s also being stupid here. Sal, this is the girl who recently brutalized someone not to far from here and faced no repercussions. THIS WILL NOT END WELL FOR YOU AND YOU KNOW THAT.
If I were to write an ending for this that didn’t involve some dire consequences, I would have Danny moving to stop Sal, and Ethan moving to stop Amber. Amber, who is less in control right now, lashes out at Ethan and he gets hurt (minor injury, but enough to say OW) which is enough to break Amber out of her rage, and hopefully realize she’s not going to fix herself anymore, and will eventually get help.
The immediate threat neutralized, Sal will wind down. Danny says something along the lines of “We need to leave. If we stick around I can’t see this ending well for you.” Sal looks up to see Marcy in the distance turn and walk away. Tears prick the corners of her eyes, and she quietly and defiantly says something like “They never do.” and walks away. Danny has to decide whether to go with her or stay with Amber.
(as a side note, Amber had plenty of time before the Hard Split to have a fistfight with Sal under less dangerous pretenses. How hard would it have been to suggest a sparring match? Get your confrontation without retribution. I think Amber has known for a while now that she doesn’t have the moral high-ground. This isn’t about justice, this is about revenge.)
INB4: I just realize I’ve been misspelling Marcie this whole post. oops!
After re reading the comic where Amazigirl tried to fight Sal back when Amber still had concious control, I don’t think Amber wants revenge. I think deep down, she wants Sal to have revenge.
Deep down, I agree, the core of all this is that Amber hates herself thanks to Blaine. In this moment, her motivations are closer to revenge/catharsis. Early on, she talks about needing to confront Sal, especially as AG. I know it gets revealed that Amber actually WANTS to be punished, and resents the fact that no one is willing to do the job, but the surface emotions driving the fight seem to be more related to the facade of revenge than the core of self-hate.
Also maybe a little “this is the only thing I’m good for anymore, so let’s do this!”
I have a question: have we actually hade any in-story reference to Sal’s hand being crippled?
I’m mostly speaking from experience with hand injuries. Even with the very best physical therapy upper-middle-class health insurance can provide, it still itches, tingles, hurts, and messes with my full range of motion. And mine was just one finger.
The problem is whether Willis is using the realistic approach to this matter… Not everything in this comic *is* realistic. Hence, I’m wondering whether it was actually mentioned, or it’s all our assumptions?
BTW. Any advice how to change that horrid avatar I got saddled with..?
To change gravatars, you can do two things: create an account in WordPress and use your own custom avatar (like me), or change the capitalization in your e-mail to get a different one from this site. For example, if your e-mail is amber123@gmail.com change it to AmbEr123@gmail.com or amber123+sal456@gmail.com. (Don’t do the latter too much, though, because the spam filter may get you.)
Somebody mentioned a comic where she tells Danny she can’t play guitar anymore.
I don’t know if he’s referenced it directly, it strikes me as the kind of thing Sal wouldn’t call attention to. I just know that it would require a more direct dismissal of the lasting damage (I.E. Willis writing into the comic that there are no lingering effects) to convince me otherwise. Hands are incredibly delicate and complicated.
I severed the exterior (anterior?) tendon (Abductor pollicis longus or Extensor pollicis brevis, I can’t remember which) of my left thumb with a pocket knife by accident when I was in middle school. I was incredibly lucky, as there was an urgent care open that just happened to have the region’s premier hand-surgeon on call that day. He took one look at the wound (barely an inch long, but reeeeally gory looking) and told me to try to extend my thumb. When I couldn’t he got me in to his office a few days later. He actually later complimented me on my choice of implement, as the brand new Leatherman had severed the tendon practically as cleanly as a scalpel would have. He mostly just had to stitch it back together. I then had months of physical therapy to adjust to the shortened tendon. It was painful. I was incredibly lucky all the way along and, as mentioned above, the effects have never quite gone away. I have a nasty scar from the surgery, and I can still feel the join where the tendon had been severed. That was one tendon.
Sal’s scar crosses at least two metacarpals, and even if the bones didn’t break and the knife just glanced off (I can’t remember if we’ve seen the scar on her palm as well), that’s a mess of important tendons gone for those fingers. Even if Sal regained the majority of function in her hand, I can speak from experience that it’ll never be 100%.
Sorry, rant over.
dangit, I forgot this was in HTML and it scrubbed my CW for hand injury. Sorry 🙁
Sorry to hear about your thumb 🙁
Thank you. It happened 15 years ago, so I’m used to it at this point, but I’m still hyper-sensitive about hand-injuries. I figure everyone has at least a handful of similar experiences that leave them similarly sensitive about.
Per the PDFs of the books, the knife went straight through her hand. So there’s almost definitely a matching scar on her palm, and all the internal damage that comes from having a blade break through the bones, tendons, and muscles of your hand.
I’m fairly sure that she mentioned not being able to play the bass anymore, which indicates a loss of fine motor skills. I can’t remember the strip or who she said this to, though.
Yeah, I seem to recall that, too! Didn’t she say it to Danny?
You might want to search the Danny/Sal tag, then, for all strips featuring both of them. To do this, simply add /tag/danny+sal to the site’s address (in case you didn’t know). I’d do it but I’m not sure my phone’s browser can handle it! Also, I answered your question about changing gravatars but my comment is pending moderation because I used too many link-like examples.
Thanks! I’ll look into your comment tomorrow, then 🙂
Uhhh….for no reason I just wanna post this
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/freezeup/
Cause it’s relevant…and I want easy reblogs. Wait! This isn’t tumblr is is?
well she didn’t get any specific consequences for that night, but her dad is an abusive asshole so it kind of balances out…
Now have this exact conversation without the PUNCHING
This is pretty much all their parents’ fault. It should be Blaine and Linda beating the shit out of each other, at least they deserve it more.
I wonder… if someone of Sal’s age actually held up a store and took a hostage, what would be the normal jail time?
We know that Sal got sent to boarding school…. I just wonder if she ended up avoiding jail time because of her injury (e.g. the judge thinking “she just got stabbed… I’ll show some sympathy.)
My guess? The police failed in their duty of care when she got stabbed and the DA went light in exchange for the Walkertons not suing the department.
That’s what I’m wondering now too.
To the comments mouse over subtitle…”It’s just something I ask of all my prey.”
I sort of realized Sal and Amber were basically unfairly blamed for opposite things. Amber I just know she’s not good enough so I’m going to punish her for getting good grades. Sal blamed for getting bad grades.
Amber yelled at for being withdrawn, Sal yelled at for causing trouble.
Sal how dare you stand up for your friends, Amber how dare you not stand up for your best friend in a situation where you are more likely to make things worse than help.
So Sal, Amber did not get in trouble for stabbing you because she was help do a completely opposite and equally shitty standard.
I think the thing that worries me the most about this isn’t the two of them fighting – but that the audience is grouping up and the campus already knows what Amber did to Ryan the Rapist.
Are you afraid security will get involved? Because past events suggest we’re looking at their security.
Also, I’m pretty sure no one cares what happened to the rapist except a handful of MRAs.
Honestly, security should be involved but this is a comic about these characters – unless Marcie jumps one of them as she was a security trainee before everything went to hell there.
Ryan got what he deserved in my book and I didn’t mean that anyone should care about him given that he’s scum. What I was referring to was the potential added levels of stress to Amber – she didn’t react well after the stabbing of Ryan, though she had every right to defend herself because he’s a shit stain. If everyone sees/hears about this, since she’s not currently AG, then what?
This smacks of repercussions for both Amber and Sal (and should be, honestly, since they’re assaulting each other and they are adults) – but given Amber’s mental state, I figure it’s just a matter of time before she does “snap” – if that makes sense.
Sal’s just as much at fault for wanting to fight. Neither of them know what brought the other two to these points out of simply knowing the pain they caused the others/results of that night when they were kids.
I’m wondering if this might actually help her. Part of the reason she wants to fight Sal is because a fair fight would prove she’s not her dad. The reason the fight with Ryan was so traumatic is because it ‘proved’ she’s a true O’mally.
That’s a good point. I suppose time will tell!
Proves that only if she keeps control throughout it.
Which she seems to be doing so far.
In panel 1, Sal demonstrates ATGATT.
Love how the Rutten sleeve makes an appearance in that Final punch.
Can I get a “see issue #x” for Amber stabbing Sal?
Here’s where she grabs the knife from the cops: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/freezeup/
And here (in the immediately-following strip after the above-linked one) is where she actually stabs Sal: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/down/
Very satisfied by that final panel TBH
Someone please step in between them.
huh. I just had a thought… sal hasn’t mentioned a single friend, or even acquaintance, from that catholic school, has she? :/ not even *one*.
Marcie is her best and only friend after all.
Welp, Sal,
You’re dead.
You’ve brought Blaine into this.
You’re so dead.
Welp, this is happening, and everything sucks.
Cool.
Neat.
I’ll miss you, Sal.