Now Amber shows off a scar she got while superheroing, Sal counters with another, and by the end they are both drunk and singing “Show Me the Way to Go Home”.
Of course, if Sal wants to prove her determination to turn over a new leaf to Marcie, this would ironically be the way to do it. “Hey, remember that kid who stabbed me through the hand? Yeah, she and I are hanging out, lately.” Seriously, it’d blow Marcie’s mind.
Mine’s around my kneecap, and didn’t go all the way through the skin (ie, the fat and muscle weren’t exposed). Got it when I was 16, it’s a (large) white scar now (25), but I know it was dark enough that I was concerned about its visibility in my early(er) 20s.
So Sal’s being red seems about right. I did have a cousin who fucked up his hand (it’s mostly okay now, but he crushed it), but I didn’t see him often enough to keep track of when it got back to a more normal colour.
Hypertrophic & Keloid scarring often remain red and angry looking years after the wound has healed. I know my operation scar is still red 5 years on, and gets redder depending on exertion and changes in weather (it can also get very itchy under those circumstances).
Still, given the size of that scar (and the fact it was a through and through knife wound), Sal’s lucky to have any use of her left hand at all.
When she was tuning Danny’s ukulele, she told him when she handed it back that she doesn’t know any ukulele chords and her right hand doesn’t work very well. Apparently enough to make a fist and drive a motorcycle, but probably some serious damage to finer motor skills or smaller/more precise things.
On that topic while maybe her plucking skills might be hampered, she’d probably still be able to strum just fine, assuming she can hold a pick or use her nails (like I do) At that point is more about your arm/wrist than actual hand.
She played bass, which is often played using the index and middle fingers. I could see how that injury could affect fine motor skills on the right hand.
the way it’s angled it probably sliced all of the major tendons in the hand screwing up movement of the wrist and fingers. She’d be able to make fists and write, but fine coordination would be impacted.
I could be remembering wrong, but I think she can’t play guitar anymore. I think that was the stated reason she could give Danny suggestions on his ukelele playing.
Hail holy Willis, ofspring of Heav’n first-born,
Or of th’ Eternal Coeternal beam
May I express thee unblam’d? since Willis is light,
And never but in unapproached light
Dwelt from Eternitie, dwelt then in Willis,
Bright effluence of bright essence increate.
Or hear’st thou rather pure Ethereal stream,
Whose Fountain who shall tell? before the Sun,
Before the Heavens thou wert, and at the voice
Of Willis, as with a Mantle didst invest
The rising world of waters dark and deep,
Won from the void and formless infinite.
I mean, most people wear clothes 99% of the time (except when they’re changing or showering) and unless it’s tan line weather their skin stays the same. It’s probably the same with gloves.
We’ve never seen Sal showering but I mean…she sleeps with those on. I wanted a hand clammier than all you can eat chowder night at Red Lobster….but I guess what you said makes sense.
I mean, I’d assume she takes her gloves off when she’s showering/washing her hands. According to a friend with a slip shine subscription, she’s also ditched the gloves when she was alone at a lake and went skinny dipping. Unless she’s showering with someone else, I don’t see a reason she wouldn’t remove her gloves.
I’ve read every strip here, thanks, and no, Amber’s response to Sal is almost always a panic attack. AG’s the one who used to get angry around Sal (before they made peace after the DeSanto rally).
Hm I’ve been thinking about that too. She also wasn’t afraid of sal when they last met (when sal picked up danny), so perhaps her proximity to walky made that trigger better.
Or she’s in a flight-or-fight-response and can’t flee right now.
I don’t think it’s fight or flight. Amber is not cornered in any way. I doubt Ethan’s the deciding factor since she was perfectly capable of running when Walky was present.
As someone with panic disorder, one of the symptoms of a panic attack can be sudden, uncontrollable anger. It’s either “fight everything now” or “omg I am paralyzed by fear/must run now”. The two are tightly connected.
Amber is definitely on the “kill it” side of that reaction.
I see most of the times she’s run from Sal before not so much as fear, but as getting away (and giving control to AG) to keep from attacking.
Not on the spot though, IIRC. More like so Amazi-Girl could stalk her, which isn’t much better, I’ll admit.
But the point is: her triggered reaction is attack. The times she’s run from Sal, it was to avoid tearing into her like she did to Blaine or Ryan, not because she was actually running in fear of Sal.
The first time she recognized her, AG planned on jumping Sal from behind. The second, iirc, was when AG attacked her in the parking lot and the third was when Sal was helping with her laundry (which culminated in her stalking her until the rally). The end goal was still a fight, but you’re right, she started by stalking her.
That might be her scared/panicky face. Sometimes people just make themselves angry/mean/whatever when they feel like a fight is coming, especially when they are used to fighting.
Anger tends to override most other emotions, especially grief and fear.
I mean, we’ve SEEN her scared/panicked. She’s very clearly angry here. I was wondering the same thing as Badgermole actually–Amber has no right to be so very clearly angry here, when Sal just looks defiant, maybe an eff-you vibe at worst. Amber looks like she’d be a danger if she had a knife again.
I’m p sure amber blames sal for the robbery and for finally snapping and all the resulting trauma from that night. Iirc, isn’t it because of that night that amazi girl even exists?
What do “rights” have to do with anger? There’s no rational decision making going on here. Amber’s triggered by Sal, as we’ve seen so many time before, and this is her reaction.
And yes, she’s a danger here, even without the knife. Hopefully she’ll be able to control herself.
Didn’t this chapter start off with an action sequence (complete with a hovertext joke about how long it’d been)? Though admittedly, that would make a nice bookend…
Lets hope Sal is actually interested in de-escalation that doesn’t involve someone seriously forgiving her out of nowhere for the clearly big deal thing she did to them when they did nothing to her and being willing to take little ribs from her without getting mad.
But instead involves her forgiving the other person a little for something they did to her and understanding they might still be mad about things she did to them.
The truth is we know Sal’s capable of true de-escalation. Ironically despite Marcies complaints her friendship with Amazigirl proves it. If you don’t count things from five years ago Sal handled Amazigirl extremely well with the information she had.
It’s not entirely clear what Amber thinks of that whole incident. It’s clearly not something she’s proud of. What’s unclear is which parts of the whole incident she’s most bothered by: Not protecting Ethan? Losing control? Or actually hurting Sal?
I personally doubt Amber thinks anything of disabling Sal’s hand for life other than ‘Stupid Amber! Too little too late! Too little too late! Where was this when Ethan was in danger? Stupid Amber!’ I don’t think there’s any ‘oh no, I did a horrible thing to another human being’ in there at all.
Some of that, but we’ve also seen her fear and hatred of her own rage and that’s likely the first time she saw that, so I think there’s more than just “I should have done it sooner”.
It might be more focused on her self-loathing for being the kind of monster who would do that than on actual concern for Sal.
Amber’s mind is ablaze right now. Her enemy is standing in front of her, she has no mask to hide behind. The Blaine-voice is screeching in her ear*. Amber’s both greatest mistakes – her failure to protect Ethan, and her attack of Sal after the deed was done – both symbolised by that scar. Sal looks her in the eyes. She opens her mouth and say…
…a batman joke?
I can’t think of any more effective de-escalation than that.
That sounds like something my boyfriend would say. He has this need for things to be even and so if he burns his hand cooking he has to burn the other one. It’s never happened severely but it is one of those things that raises my eyebrow (and means I try to keep him from burning his hands).
ack. I am glad my brain does not extend that broken logic to injuries. :/ it fucking *sucks* to have your brain insist that you “even out” even minor shit.
Hm, I’m uncertain which way this is going to go. On one hand (no pun intended), Sal could decide to take some kind of revenge for the wound to her hand. On the other hand, she might carry on seeking some more forgiving resolution.
I’m curious to see which way this goes.
I am inclined to think the latter. We haven’t really seen Sal be all that vengeful. We’ve seen her have grudges with people, but not a lot of retaliation for it.
I doubt this is gonna come to blows. For one Ethan’s right there. I don’t think he’d just sit by and let two of his friends just beat the crap out of each other. Also they’re right in front of the campus. Probably still foot traffic around, witnesses and like you said Sal at least doesn’t seem the type to instigate a fight. I expect some harsh words but not a fight. Not yet anyway.
5 and 6 both look bitter. If 6 is anger and Sal escalates, she’ll have to reckon with Marcie. Anyway the whole Amber/Sal altercation is one of the blurriest instances of black and white I’ve seen. Perhaps tomorrow we see them try to blame each other… although while Sal was hurt by Amber, Amber was only truly hurt by Blaine. And Sal was hurt by Linda…
Maybe the three of them can bond over abusive parenting… but given who we’re dealing with here, nice things aren’t likely to happen.
Being present during a hostage situation where nobody got hurt doesn’t make stabbing the unarmed and restrained hostage taker afterwards morally blurry at all. It’s bad.
It is. Much like taking a hostage while robbing a convenience store isn’t morally blurry. It’s bad.
OTOH, 13 year old abuse victims often do bad things. And that does make it all morally blurry.
Fine. They’re both morally responsible for their actions. They’re both evil monsters. Can we move on to innocent characters we’re allowed to care about?
You know it’s possibly to not prevaricate about morality without condemning someone as an irredeemable monster right? That’s a weirdly hard line stance from someone who was just going on about the moral complexities of stabbing a defenseless 13 year old.
Maybe we mean different things with “moral”.
I do find moral complexity in damn near anything an abused child does, especially in the wake of trauma, at the prodding of her abuser. Similarly, for what led Sal there in the first place.
Sure, if you want to put it that way, she did a bad thing. The reasons why she did it and the way the whole situation developed are where the moral complexity lies. That’s why this is actually interesting.
Or we can just reduce it to “It was bad”.
I do like how we need to emphasize Sal’s youth here, while ignoring that Amber was the same age.
I’m glad I guessed wrongly. A confrontation such as this will certainly get the (healing?) process started with a bang. Or maybe a punch. Hard to say with people prone to finding physical solutions to mental and social problems.
it just occurred to me that Sal was never going to apologize to Amber because she always saw as Ethan as the party she offended. Amber was just the person who stabbed her completely unprompted
That’s a good point actually. Amber’s kind of more in the wrong here at least from my perspective. She attacked Sal after she was already handcuffed and in custody right? Amber’s coming off pretty poorly right now. If I were her I’d open with an apology and count herself lucky if she gets one in return.
I’m not even sure it would change things. It won’t make her hand any better. And trying to excuse the behaviour of someone who really hurt you makes most people just even more angry. Because your are basically telling them that their pain matters less than whatever the attacker went through, even though they were the victim.
In this comic everyone has a tragic backstory.
Sal should forgive Amber because she wants to be a de-escalator. And should apologize for what she herself actually did that hurt Amber.
I take some issue with the idea Sal has to forgive Amber in order to de-escalate. Saying ‘screw you’ and walking away to go to the back door or something like that would ALSO end the situation.
Sal did essentially the same thing to Leland that Amber did to her. Attacking him after the fact. Only with Sal it was after she found out the authorities were more prone to punish the victim than the villain and it was strangling instead of stabbing.
I thiiiink sal figured it out. And I think she still is a bit sore about being crippled.
And I’m wondering if walky and sal are close enough for her to tell him. If yes, it’ll stay interesting. I’m not sure how he’d react or if he’ll enforce a conversation about it but any way, it’ll make their relationship even more difficult.
I’m wondering if there’s about to be a fight and if Walky will stumble into the middle of it (or vice versa). He was just in the lobby a minute or so ago.
I’m leaning heavily towards “Battle Without Honor or Humanity.” Fits the tone here perfectly, that standoff before the fight starts (or something else breaks the tension).
Not only that but just in general the way Amber has handled this has been pretty cowardly. Dodging Sal at every moment, versus Ethan who confronted and reconciled at his first opportunity.
Withholding information from Walky (yes it’s still early in their relationship but there really is no good time to bring that up) even imagining some unrealistic dream scenario where she can completely avoid the negative aspects of that conversation.
Stalking Sal as AG. Instigating a fight in a parking lot as AG. (Honestly a bit confused on how much Amber is aware of AG’s actions at that time.)
In general just unfairly blaming Sal for her rage issues and accusing her of stealing everything from her including turning Danny against her. None of that happened and isn’t anyones fault least of all Sal.
She doesn’t have to reconcile with Sal but she does need to acknowledge what she did and handle this situation better than she has instead of just avoiding it. Because that’s how you get expelled and arrested for fist fighting the girl you stabbed five years ago.
It’s Amber’s responsibility she stabbed Sal, and it’s Sal’s responsibility she robbed the store and took Ethan hostage with a knife, but we can also acknowledge their parents roles that led to those things and, while nobody is obligated to do the same, I personally feel enough sympathy for their parents being shitheels that I’m more sad than angry at either of the girls.
Blaine, Linda and Charles can all go fuck themselves though.
Blaine was the catalyst for the initial incident on Amber’s side, but every action Amber took, from stabbing Sal up to this moment on the steps, was Amber’s decision. And Amber made some pretty heinous decisions when it came to Sal, including stalking her and trying to assault her on two separate occasions (as AG).
Acknowledging the impact Blaine had on Amber’s psyche and decision making process doesn’t have to absolve her of all responsibility when it comes to stabbing Sal. She is still the one that did it, and if Sal found out about Blaine’s relationship with Amber, it would be an explanation for why it happened, but it would not be an excuse.
I never said it was an excuse or that the responsibility isn’t Amber’s. All I said was that Blaine’s role in what led to Amber deciding to stab Sal made me sympathetic enough I am sad about it rather than angry.
Again, still replying to the entire thread, not just specifically your comment. I was expanding on “acknowledge their parents roles” while emphasizing the accountability of Amber’s own actions, as a reply to the original point “Amber is the villain in this scenario” and the counterpoint “the parents are the real villains”.
Amber’s situation is sympathetic, but her actions can still be scrutinized.
Without Blaine, Amber still stalked Sal and tried to assault her on two separate occasions (as AG). Amber lashed out at Danny because he dared talk to Sal once. Amber is still responsible for her decisions, even if Blaine’s actions and behavior influenced her.
In the specific Sal v. Amber storyline, based on her own actions and behaviors, Amber can come across as the villain to Sal. Yes, there was outside influence, but Blaine’s abuse of Amber would not excuse her actions. She can still be sympathetic while also held accountable and scrutinized for the choices that she made.
Without Blaine, Amber isn’t Amazi-Girl. She doesn’t stab Sal. She’s probably not screwed up enough to have PTSD from the robbery at all and she probably gets therapy if she needs it. She never stalks Sal or tries to assault her.
And without Linda (and Charles), Sal never feels she needs to rob the store and thus there’s no chance for any of this.
Yes, given all that, she can easily come across as the villain to Sal. Ignoring the actual root causes of the problems makes it easy to assign blame. Sure: Amber making bad decisions. She shouldn’t be excused for that. But she does have serious untreated mental illness. Saying she needs to take responsibility for her actions is exactly like saying the clinically depressed person needs to get out of bed and take responsibility. It’s damn easy to say and nearly impossible to just do.
(And of course, there’s also the question as to how much responsibility Amber bears for Amazi-Girl’s actions or vice versa.)
I hate this line of thought because it implies abuse victims and the mentally ill are just inherently a danger to themselves and others and we should just “boys will be boys” it when they do something that hurts others. Lots of victims of much worse abuse than Amber have managed to not commit brutal acts of violence against the people around them. Sure, circumstances play a role but ultimately a person’s actions are down to the decisions they make.
No, it doesn’t imply that. It implies that we should allow them a little more leniency, and take a moment to understand instead of simply condemning. People WITHOUT mental illness do bad things and get the benefit of the doubt/a chance for redemption, so why should we not be especially inclined to do so for people who need it most?
You can still acknowledge that a person did bad things, and hold them accountable, WHILE ALSO being understanding and compassionate towards them.
And, bluntly, as someone who is mentally ill myself – yes, we ARE at a higher risk than others of being a danger to ourselves and those around us. Does that mean we should be treated woth paranoia? No. But there’s a REASON that every mental health professional has their assistants and nurses screen people for “have you had any thoughts of hurting yourself or others?” And that reason is because it is a very real possibility, worth considering.
You shouldn’t coddle them, either of them, but nor should you act like you can hold mentally ill children (at the time of the incident) to the same standard as mentally healthy people… OR adults, let alone mentally healthy adults.
Please also consider that NEITHER OF THEM have had proper treatment. Just looking at statistics alone, people with UNTREATED abuse/trauma/mental health issues have a much, much higher risk of harming themselves or others. Yes, Sal has mentioned seeing a therapist… AFTER the robbery, though. And she also said that it didn’t personally do her any good, which suggests to me that she has not received EFFECTIVE treatment.
These are raw, untreated teenagers with histories of trauma that have not been properly handled. This is the sort of confrontation that, say, a hostage negotiator or some other specialist in de-escalation would consider very explosive. They are both people that a doctor would consider to need special care.
Just because other people with mental health issues or trauma have “been through worse” and not done bad things does not mean that they should be held to the same “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” standards. It’s unfair, unhealthy, and would only make them feel worse if you said it to their faces.
I hate the rhetoric that people’s responses to pain, trauma, or struggle all have to be the same. (Usually, stoicism or “chin up.”)
(For the record, I think they both fucked up badly & need to atone… but Sal already did, largely.)
Also “mental illness” is an incredibly broad term. Many kinds of mental illness pose no greater risk than any normal person – some even less. In other cases, the risk is almost entirely to themselves.
In Amber’s case however at the moment she’s dangerous and that is very much tied to her PTSD, at least as a trigger. It’s not entirely clear where her berserk mode comes from, but it seems implied at least that it’s tied to her abuse.
The mentally ill are generally far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators and when it does happen, they’re more likely to hurt themselves than someone else, but you’re absolutely right this is an explosive situation and something to tread carefully with.
I hate THIS argument because it basically boils down to “victims need to throw other victims (including children) under the bus for public relations reasons.” If someone can’t empathize with the impulsive actions of a couple of abused 13-year-olds without jumping to “all abused and/or mentally ill people should be viewed as dangerous,” that’s their problem, not a reason for the rest of us to take notions of “personal responsibility“ to the point of cruel absurdity.
I have clinical depression. How dare you compare suffering from a depressive state and staying in bed all day to lashing out physically and assaulting others. When I’m in a depressed state, the only person I hurt is myself. And hey, most mentally ill people are the same and have never hurt other people, least of all with physically violence.
I have said before that Amber’s situation and the circumstances leading up to it are sympathetic, but her actions are not excused or absolved because they were influenced by Blaine. Amber’s still the one that committed these deeds and holding her responsible for them makes sense. Thinking about it from Sal’s shoes, it doesn’t matter what Blaine did to Amber to lead up to the incident, he wasn’t the one with the knife. Amber was.
Being mentally ill is not an excuse for one’s actions. It is an explanation, but it is never an excuse and saying that Amber can’t be held accountable at all for any of her actions, even if they were under duress, is just an excuse. The circumstances that led up to what happened should be taken into account, but when it comes to Sal or anyone else affected by Amber’s actions, they’re going to look at the decisions Amber made, not the underlying reasons.
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to compare it in any moral sense, just in the sense that in either case “Just get better” isn’t helpful.
And yes, it’s likely that Sal’s just going to look at what Amber did, not her underlying reasons. Much like Amber and Ethan can just look at what Sal did, not her underlying reasons.
I agree that saying “Just get better” isn’t helpful or constructive in any way. That wasn’t a sentiment I was trying to say. I do agree that Amber needs help and proper treatment before any kind punishment, as that’d only exacerbate the problem. However, the crux of what I’m saying is the same as what Brotato said above: You can still acknowledge that a person did bad things, and hold them accountable, WHILE ALSO being understanding and compassionate towards them.
Knowing the root causes gives full context to a situation, but it doesn’t mitigate the damages done. Amber’s mental illness and the circumstances of her abuse explains her actions, but it doesn’t excuse the harm that she inflicted onto others. Sal’s injury doesn’t go away if she learns about Amber’s issues, that still happened. The same way that if Ethan learned about the circumstances that led Sal to holding up that convenience store that night doesn’t mean Sal never held a knife to his throat, or make her any less responsible for her actions.
To give an example, if in one of my worst anxiety- and depression-riddled states, I lashed out and verbally abused people, it is still on me to later make things right. Yes, I was not in a good state of mind and my mental illness affected my judgment and behavior, but that doesn’t justify or excuse my actions. I still need to take responsibility and apologize, and not expect people to overlook it because of the extenuating circumstances. That’s not fair for the people who have to be hit with that backlash. And on this point, Amber has done this in the past, or at least acknowledged that she needs to. After she lashed out at Danny, she told him that he shouldn’t forgive her or take her back until she apologized. She knows that she needs to apologize, and granted, she said that apologies are worthless if you can’t promise to stop the behavior, but that also indicates that it’s something she wants to work towards and become better at. This situation with Sal is no different.
Amber can get treatment for her mental illness and still take responsibility for her past actions. That’s a part of growth and recovery.
So it definitely looks like Sal figured it out.
Now, if a fight breaks out, and it probably will, will Amber’s fighting style also clue Sal in that she’s Amazi-girl?
Friends? No, but possibly ad-hoc self-therepy buddies for a while until they are able to see something other than the ministers from their respective pasts.
Growing up with all them cowboy tv shows, and cowboy movies, its lookin’ like a showdown at sunset. Since most of the showdowns were held at high noon, I think someone is gonna be riding off into the sunset, leaving their college career in the dust. Boy-howdy, (grabs popcorn) gonna be wild in Ms.Kitty’s Longbranch tonight. Chester, go see if you can find Matthew,… Or Palladin, or Doc Holliday. The Cisco Kid? The Rifleman? The Lone Ranger, or them young fellers from the Bonanza ranch down in that Big Valley?
There are several ways I want this to go.
1. Sal and Amber run away from each other, but Sal meets up later with Amazi-Girl at another house that Amazi-Girl had announced on various forums as where some of Ethan’s victims lived to beat up any of his friends who show up, and she opens up to AG about how Amber makes her feel. AG gives her good advice that she realizes she should also take and leaves, and as Sal is about to leave as well, she does a double-take like she did when she realized who Ethan was, realizing that AG and Amber are one and the same.
2. The exact same thing as 1, but Sal doesn’t realize that Amber and AG are the same.
3. Dina pops out of nowhere to say, “Ankylosaurus magniventris was covered with hard, bony plates that offered superb protection from various predators.”
In the next panel, all the anger just immediately disappears from Sal’s face. She turns to Ethan, “So Apples, did you see who did this? Ah never got a good look.”
I think im one of the only optimistic people here I think the look on Sals face is literally her discomfort with how hard it is to forgive Amber for this but knowing this is what she neefs to do and Amber escalating rapidly turning her panic to rage. I fully expect Ethan to grab Amber and stop her fron hurting Sal
Yeah, people forget that Sal has seen and even fought alongside Amber several times (and I am willing to bet Sal is much more capable of putting two and two together and realizing who Amazigirl is). Sal is not going to be lunging
Even if Sal realizes who Amazi-Girl is, she has no idea that Amber and Amazi-Girl aren’t actually the same person, so that realization will just confuse things more.
I think Sal will realize pretty quickly. Sal is smarter than your average bear, for one. Plus Sal already knows that Amazi-Girl has a weird obsession with her and that according to Amazi-Girl they have history.
Yes, it’s possible that Sal will be the first person (other than Dina who lives with her) to deduce it.
It’s practically impossible that Sal is quickly going to also intuit out of pretty much nothing the whole disassociation, multiple personality thing.
I think she’s still at least a little pissed. Sal may not be ready to throw down right now, but I don’t think she’s going to be forgiving Amber entirely. (The only reason I could really see Sal doing so is if she finds out about Blaine and feels a stab of same parental abuse trauma empathy. Especially if she starts putting the pieces together about AG. ‘You stabbed me, stalked me, and decided we’re friends without coming clean first? What the fucking FUCK?’ Is an appropriate response.)
Sal’s not really obligated to forgive someone who permanently disabled her. I hope that the two of them find common ground eventually, because neither of them is willing to go to therapy and they both need SOMEONE to talk about this shit to, and I think if they do open up about their parents they’ll both recognize what the other did as terrible. (Blaine holds Amber’s necessary purchases like the laptop against her, I’m certain Amber will recognize the financial abuse even if she’s not equipped to get the racism elements.)
But realistically here, they don’t have to. Sal has a right to be angry her hand will never work well again. Amber has a lot of ‘this trauma is mine and belongs to me alone’ and being traumatized by circumstances that weren’t Sal, but Sal did hold Ethan hostage at knifepoint and that was a big deal to witness too. You don’t have to forgive someone for that shit. (I do think Amber needs to recognize that Sal isn’t actually the person who ultimately hurt her, just the flashpoint, and an apology for the stabbing would be in line, but that’s going to take a lot of untangling of shit and accounting for the fact that triggers aren’t rational and such.)
I’m pretty sure that Amber is going onto defence mode. She thinks Sal is going to attack her.
Meanwhile, Sal is harder to read but I can hear some Ennio Morricone music playing. This has the feel of showing the Black Hat the scar they left on you during your previous duel and then waiting for them to draw.
In other words, both girls are expecting the other to attack them and are waiting for them to throw the first punch. Poor Ethan has likely never felt so out of place!
Am I the only one reading this as Amber /expecting/ Sal to immediately recognize her and call her out, and AG preparing for said confrontation? Not that Sal /actually/ decided the first thing to do here was start something, despite her behavior with Ethan and acknowledgement that she needs to work on her temper?
just saying that if Sal has been wearing gloves 24/7 since 14, her hand should be wayyy lighter than her face by now. And… muscle is what makes the hand into a fist, but you need the tendons to open the hand into a palm. Muscle as flesh is easy to sew up. Tendons are like stretched elastic bands, if cutted they would retract and hide. Also the hand is a jigsaw of little bones in a precise set. You can hope that they were just pushed appart by the knife, but if some of them got scrambled or loose… thats a lot of surgery and therapy… and pain for months.
Yeah, I did quite a bit of research before we saw the scar and all accounts seemed to be ‘yeah, if the knife went through her hand (as the book PDFs said), her hand is FUCKED. UP.’
Getting stabbed when she was thirteen means that’s probably the post surgery and therapy part and I’m guessing her hand still occasionally hurts like a bongo.
Nerve damage probably too. Yeah, I’m guessing if/when we get to winter/colder weather, it is going to be NOT FUN. It might not have been so bad in Tennessee where its likely at least a bit warmer, but in Indiana? Ouch.
To be honest, even though there’s been all this talk about Sal apogizing to Amber or forgiving Amber or what have you, at the end of the day Sal doesn’t really owe Amber anything. I mean, if she connects ALL the dots here’s the girl who not only stabbed her years ago, but has also antagonized her for weeks?(i always get the time scaling wrong here)
It would be a huge step backwards for Sal’s development but Sal could blame Amber for the widening rift in her friendship with Marcie. I hope for some form of resolution here but I just don’t think Sal has to do the most of the legwork in this situation
Don’t jinx it! he’s probably just gonna take that as a challenge. Now the next five strips are gonna be dedicated to Marcie’s and Malaya’s adventures at the Roller Derby.
I don’t think Sal’s going to start a fight here, but she’s clearly angry and hurt about what happened. And with every right! I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some kind of confrontation even if it’s not a physical one. “Why” would be an extremely fair question to ask of Amber, from Sal’s perspective.
Sal… MIGHT… have internalized the gas station incident as a turning point in her life. A positive one. She was pulled away from her life of crime, and ended up where she is now. It all worked out for the best in the end, and it might all be because of that one girl who stabbed her and gave her the wake-up call she needed.
She’s had a lot of time to process and think about what happened.
She might be about to THANK Amber for what she did.
Considering the turning point in question almost certainly involved a fuckton of emotional abuse from her parents, being shipped out of state to a prison-esque school (not to mention apparently a ton of crappy therapists) and away from her only support system, not to mention almost certainly involving a ton of physical therapy and at least one surgery for what turned out to be a permanently disabling injury?
I find any sort of ‘positive turning point’ idea unlikely.
And I find ‘life of crime’ to be an extreme exaggeration. She was a lookout for one robbery and the other one was solo. Two incidents that took place within 24 hours of each other is hardly a life of crime.
Let me amend that. Joyce doesn’t really fit on the chart, that or she’ll be switching positions over time. I think Ruth should go in the Lawful Neutral slot.
I get where you’re coming from in putting Amazigirl in Lawful Good, because she does want people to obey the letter of the law… But she breaks it too much herself for me to think of her there. Likewise, I wouldn’t put Mike in Chaotic Evil, considering that his motives are kind of hard to read. Long-term his dickery seems to put people on the path to understanding themselves.
My alternative:
Lawful Good: Joyce (?)
Lawful Neutral: Jacob
Lawful Evil: Mary
Neutral Good: Amazigirl
True Neutral: Walky
Neutral Evil: Scarface
Chaotic Good: Sal
Chaotic Neutral: Mike
Chaotic Evil: Toedad
I think Amazi-girl sometimes finds herself being forced to either break a personal rule or a local rule, and has to make a choice. Plus, lawful characters don’t never break rules. I’d say Amazi-girl is definitely lawful; I think she’s as lawful as Superman is. She was ready to turn her friends in just for breaking the dorm rules. Besides, you can’t disagree that Ethan is a perfect fit for Neutral Good.
I’ll agree with Ryan being Neutral Evil but I was preferring to keep the grouping closer to home where possible. I don’t know so much about Carla but I do remember her wanting to hurt people for the sake of making them whine. Then again, IIRC she didn’t want them sad so much as she wanted them to retaliate because she finds the fight fun. She might be chaotic neutral then. But I don’t really know Carla very well and I haven’t read the Ultra-Car comics.
I can agree with Mike not really being evil. But Amber really is an excellent choice for Chaotic Neutral, and a more major character in the story.
I suppose there isn’t any major character who is chaotic evil. But Mike is the closest and sometimes I’m not sure he isn’t.
Joyce is discovering that she is more ng than lg. I would place Amazigirl as LN or even LE (it isn’t about justice for AG, it’s about punching people she feels she can get away with punching). Would call Mary NE because her code is more one of convenience than sincere belief. Toedad is LE. I think you have scarface pegged right. Would peg Mike as CE. Carla is CN. Becky CG. Dina… probably LN? Jacob I haven’t seen enough of. Sarah probably TN. Walky definitely TN. Sal CN or maybe CG. Ethan… I am not sure where to place. We haven’t seen him confront a moral crisis yet. NX, where X is either N or G, probably.
I have to disagree with that. Seems usually when people say that, it turns out they don’t quite understand how the system works, or are taking it too rigidly. Of course there’s much more that defines a character, but most people don’t make major alignment changes throughout their life unless they go through a major personal development–like Joyce, and even she’s not shifting much.
Most importantly, it’s for fun! I find it to be a fun way to map out characters. Generally the biggest concern I think you can raise legitimately is that a group never pans out evenly across the chart; you always have a bunch bundled together on a few alignments and a couple of empty spaces. It usually takes 30+ characters to get your 9 slots filled.
Just to be contrary
Dorothy: Slytherin – for the ambition.
Joyce: Hufflepuff – she’s all about making friends with everyone.
Sal: Gryffindor – She lacks the ambition or manipulativeness for Slytherin, though she’s got the bad attitude. OTOH, she’s got the stupid heroism thing that fits Gryffindor.
Amber: Gryffindor, but no one knows why until they find out about AG.
Two of the bonus strips can’t be viewed at full size and so it’s difficult to read the text. But not to worry! There are transcriptions in the comments!
I have this fear that Amber’s gonna escalate things, Marcie’s gonna see them fighting, and decide to wash her hands of Sal, who (from her perspective) couldn’t keep from fighting for like, five minutes after talking about “getting better” and Sal’s just… gonna be so broken.
I’m writing this down because whenever I predict things it doesn’t come true, so here’s hoping! D:
Ah, it feels so long since then… (and, I mean, IRL it has been, but in-universe it hasn’t been that long at all, has it?). Not getting much of those feelings from Marcie lately, though ):
You know, Sal may not even be looking at Amber. Seh may be looking at Ethan, showing him the wound, so she can ask him if he knows who did it, not even realizing that it was Amber.
Saaaal… this is a perfect chance to kill two birds with one stone. Defuse the situation with Amber, then tell her that you and Amazi-Girl are thru with the vigilante violence.
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OH NICE we finally see Sal’s guild mark
Thank you. Pleased to finally get a reference here without further research.
“You recognise your handiwork I see”.
GTFO XD
Now Amber shows off a scar she got while superheroing, Sal counters with another, and by the end they are both drunk and singing “Show Me the Way to Go Home”.
Show me yours and I’ll show you mine..no
“Let’s compare scars and I’ll tell whose is worse”
Rise Agaisnt! \m/
Klingon Mating Ritual: Mutual strip-search for concealed weapons.
Ethan tries to feel included by showing a scar he got brawling for a variant at a Target.
What they don’t realise is that tiny scar represents an injury that nearly killed Ethan. Those brawls are really dangerous!
So there’s this anime called Ben-To about a group of wackos who routinely get into epic fights over discounted dinner boxes.
I think you can see where I’m going with this.
man, that’s one silly anime. I still get a huge kick out of it.
I want to see Ethan’s scar, after all, he is Jewish…
These days, most American males have that scar.
*USA-born I mean
Amber’s is a cutie mark
perfect gravitar for that joke…
We’re gonna need a bigger university.
And then the shark attacks.
Fight the shark or jump over it…
Fight the shark or jump over it…
“You were on the Indianapolis?”
“No, Mr. Hooper. I was on the Bloomington. We had it far worse than those poor souls on the Indianapolis. We had to put up with Mary.”
Right there. Mary Ellen Moffat.
Not with the look on Amber’s face in the last panel. More like she tries to fight Sal & gets her butt kicked.
“wanna know how i got this scar?”
The correct response in this scenario is not “no, but I know how you got these.”
Correct response? No.
Likely response? Well…
why so serious?
some people just like to watch the world burn…
LLLEEEEET’S GET RRREAAADY TO RRRRRUUUMMMBBBLLLEEEE
…somehow I can’t see Lillian ever saying that.
Of course, if Sal wants to prove her determination to turn over a new leaf to Marcie, this would ironically be the way to do it. “Hey, remember that kid who stabbed me through the hand? Yeah, she and I are hanging out, lately.” Seriously, it’d blow Marcie’s mind.
But yeah, rumble is more likely, sadly.
FLYIN’ TO THE RED
So we shaking hands or what? Come on don’t leave me hanging.
Marcie will be so proud that Sal de-esculated.
it’s what we all hope for…which means it’ll never happen and an epic week-long fight sequence erupts with Ethan ending up hurt 🙁
Why’s that thing still red
I think a combination of Sal’s skintone and the lighting. It probably looks more tan or brown under more neutral lighting.
Drama
I had a deep scar that stayed red-purple for at least four years, and it wouldn’t be as deep as Sal’s.
According to the book pdfs, the knife went straight through her hand, so it’s probably reflected on her palm too.
Mine’s around my kneecap, and didn’t go all the way through the skin (ie, the fat and muscle weren’t exposed). Got it when I was 16, it’s a (large) white scar now (25), but I know it was dark enough that I was concerned about its visibility in my early(er) 20s.
So Sal’s being red seems about right. I did have a cousin who fucked up his hand (it’s mostly okay now, but he crushed it), but I didn’t see him often enough to keep track of when it got back to a more normal colour.
hell, my arm scar that saw my bicep ripped open took nearly 10 years to look normal skin tone…31 years later and it still looks lighter than normal
Hypertrophic & Keloid scarring often remain red and angry looking years after the wound has healed. I know my operation scar is still red 5 years on, and gets redder depending on exertion and changes in weather (it can also get very itchy under those circumstances).
Still, given the size of that scar (and the fact it was a through and through knife wound), Sal’s lucky to have any use of her left hand at all.
My sister was bitten by a moose once. No, no, moose bites can be very dangerous.
Well, what do you expect, she was carving her initials into it.
Well, she got away carving the wolverine. Maybe she thought that he was so big he wouldnt notice?
Yeah, that scar does NOT look pleasant. It’s still red and half-healed looking after five years. No wonder she doesn’t have full use of her hand.
Also, Sal’s face is too adorable in panel one and now I am dead, goodbye.
…
Eh, screw it, this is gonna be WAY too juicy for me to die before I see the conclusion.
Maybe I’m slow, but where was it mentioned that Sal doesn’t have full use of that hand?
When she was tuning Danny’s ukulele, she told him when she handed it back that she doesn’t know any ukulele chords and her right hand doesn’t work very well. Apparently enough to make a fist and drive a motorcycle, but probably some serious damage to finer motor skills or smaller/more precise things.
Here’s the link!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/tuned/
On that topic while maybe her plucking skills might be hampered, she’d probably still be able to strum just fine, assuming she can hold a pick or use her nails (like I do) At that point is more about your arm/wrist than actual hand.
Might have messed up a tendon going into her wrist, but that’s fully speculation.
She played bass, which is often played using the index and middle fingers. I could see how that injury could affect fine motor skills on the right hand.
the way it’s angled it probably sliced all of the major tendons in the hand screwing up movement of the wrist and fingers. She’d be able to make fists and write, but fine coordination would be impacted.
I could be remembering wrong, but I think she can’t play guitar anymore. I think that was the stated reason she could give Danny suggestions on his ukelele playing.
I believe it came up when Sal was telling Danny how she used to play guitar. Havent been able to find the strip sorry.
Hail holy Willis, ofspring of Heav’n first-born,
Or of th’ Eternal Coeternal beam
May I express thee unblam’d? since Willis is light,
And never but in unapproached light
Dwelt from Eternitie, dwelt then in Willis,
Bright effluence of bright essence increate.
Or hear’st thou rather pure Ethereal stream,
Whose Fountain who shall tell? before the Sun,
Before the Heavens thou wert, and at the voice
Of Willis, as with a Mantle didst invest
The rising world of waters dark and deep,
Won from the void and formless infinite.
The Willis giveth and the Willis taketh away.
Weird. I finally saw this strip at 0:11, Internet time. The post claims 12:01. The first three comments say 12:05.
Kudos to whoever predicted Sal pulling off her glove.
It also took more than 9 minutes for me… 00:13 now
Uh oh.
Disappointed Sal’s hand isn’t paler!
Usually, it’s her parents who wish she was paler.
I mean, most people wear clothes 99% of the time (except when they’re changing or showering) and unless it’s tan line weather their skin stays the same. It’s probably the same with gloves.
We’ve never seen Sal showering but I mean…she sleeps with those on. I wanted a hand clammier than all you can eat chowder night at Red Lobster….but I guess what you said makes sense.
I mean, I’d assume she takes her gloves off when she’s showering/washing her hands. According to a friend with a slip shine subscription, she’s also ditched the gloves when she was alone at a lake and went skinny dipping. Unless she’s showering with someone else, I don’t see a reason she wouldn’t remove her gloves.
Nice of that dramatic lighting to suddenly show up behind Sal in those last couple of panels.
The gloves are off. Well, one is.
Sal throws the glove at Amber’s feet. It is the traditional challenge to a duel.
There’s really no glove lost between these two.
As they say, once mitten twice shy.
I dunno, they both look ready to run the gauntlet.
These two are about to run the gauntlet.
All’s fair in glove and war?
She’d need to slap Amber with it before hurling it down. Amber still has the option to not “pick up the gauntlet.”
Wtf why is Amber (as opposed to Sal) getting angry (as opposed to scared/panicky/awkward/literally anything else)?
Sal’s a target Amber can take her anger out on. She’s a Blaine (and Ryan, and etc.) substitute.
Have you literally never paid attention to these two? Amber is ALWAYS getting angry when she remembers the robbery
I’ve read every strip here, thanks, and no, Amber’s response to Sal is almost always a panic attack. AG’s the one who used to get angry around Sal (before they made peace after the DeSanto rally).
That was before they dissociated. Now, AG views Sal as a sidekick, but Amber still gets cagey around her
Hm I’ve been thinking about that too. She also wasn’t afraid of sal when they last met (when sal picked up danny), so perhaps her proximity to walky made that trigger better.
Or she’s in a flight-or-fight-response and can’t flee right now.
I don’t think it’s fight or flight. Amber is not cornered in any way. I doubt Ethan’s the deciding factor since she was perfectly capable of running when Walky was present.
She’s not physically cornered but she can’t run from that confrontation anymore.
As someone with panic disorder, one of the symptoms of a panic attack can be sudden, uncontrollable anger. It’s either “fight everything now” or “omg I am paralyzed by fear/must run now”. The two are tightly connected.
Amber is definitely on the “kill it” side of that reaction.
I see most of the times she’s run from Sal before not so much as fear, but as getting away (and giving control to AG) to keep from attacking.
Or giving control to AG so AG can attack her, that’s happened before too, more than once.
Not on the spot though, IIRC. More like so Amazi-Girl could stalk her, which isn’t much better, I’ll admit.
But the point is: her triggered reaction is attack. The times she’s run from Sal, it was to avoid tearing into her like she did to Blaine or Ryan, not because she was actually running in fear of Sal.
The first time she recognized her, AG planned on jumping Sal from behind. The second, iirc, was when AG attacked her in the parking lot and the third was when Sal was helping with her laundry (which culminated in her stalking her until the rally). The end goal was still a fight, but you’re right, she started by stalking her.
That’s her secret, she’s always angry.
It’s not much of a secret.
Because Sal is a source of trauma and she is taking that as a sign of aggression/a challenge.
She’s probably getting preemptively defensive about whatever Sal could possibly say to her.
I think it’s more like she’s expecting a confrontation. It’s hard to read what emotion Sal’s conveying here, but it definitely seems pretty defiant.
Amber’s fear isn’t necessarily of Sal, but of what she’s capable of doing to Sal. Imagine another Ryan incident, but possibly worse than that.
Maybe Amazi-Girl turns up to save Sal from Amber?
I really, really hope not. That would be a serious failure for Amber. She needs to face this.
Fight or Flight is one system.
well, fight/flight/freeze/fawn, technically. although amber does mostly stick with either fight or flight after the hold-up.
Ruth has “freeze’ covered.
I think Amber really only has “fight” now. At least for Sal.
She runs from her, but that’s because she’s not willing to let the fight take over, because she won’t be able to stop it.
That might be her scared/panicky face. Sometimes people just make themselves angry/mean/whatever when they feel like a fight is coming, especially when they are used to fighting.
Anger tends to override most other emotions, especially grief and fear.
I mean, we’ve SEEN her scared/panicked. She’s very clearly angry here. I was wondering the same thing as Badgermole actually–Amber has no right to be so very clearly angry here, when Sal just looks defiant, maybe an eff-you vibe at worst. Amber looks like she’d be a danger if she had a knife again.
Sal’s looking pissed off. Amber’s response is “You don’t get to be angry — your hand is MY trauma!”
I’m p sure amber blames sal for the robbery and for finally snapping and all the resulting trauma from that night. Iirc, isn’t it because of that night that amazi girl even exists?
What do “rights” have to do with anger? There’s no rational decision making going on here. Amber’s triggered by Sal, as we’ve seen so many time before, and this is her reaction.
And yes, she’s a danger here, even without the knife. Hopefully she’ll be able to control herself.
FINALLY. BEEN WAITIN’ YEARS TO SEE THAT HAND.
SO THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT?!!!
worst slipshine ever
*peeks up from under bed* No red panels yet. That’s a… good sign, I think?
Willis is using the lighting to make the setting pink. It’s clever. Also worrying.
Willis does like to draw action sequences, and it’s been a while. I don’t have any advance knowledge, but I’m just saying.
Didn’t this chapter start off with an action sequence (complete with a hovertext joke about how long it’d been)? Though admittedly, that would make a nice bookend…
It’s cool, she needs to take one glove off to do her Michael Jackson impression.
if (glove on)= false Execute moon walk immediate, else continue.
“(…) drew First Blood!”
I say! I do believe shit just got REAL!!
Well you really gotta hand it to Sal, she knows how to make an entrance.
It’s scar-y to think what might happen next.
I glove the panel composition!
Seems like they’re getting red-y to have it out, finally.
I hope Sal and Amber take a stab at resolving their conflict. It’d be knife if that happened.
I’d expect some cutting words or a tongue slashing before that happens.
I think Sal’s made her point in the simplest way possible.
No tunnel vision towards getting Ethan. I’m surprised.
Prediction that we’re about to lapse from the last panel into a red panel featuring Young Amber.
This doesn’t look like de-escalation! This doesn’t look like de-escalation at all!
Where’s the awkward jokes? The comments on how different everyone looks after all these years? T-the offers of motorcycle rides?
I mean, Sal might not escalate further than establishing who she is (and who Amber is).
Whether she can de escalate from where Amber takes it is more concerning to me.
I have to wonder if Sal doesn’t de-escalate this, what’s going to happen between her and Marcie?
It WOULD be just Sal’s luck today for Marcie to come back to talk only to see her in another fight.
This storyline is gonna end with at least one of Amber and Sal feeling broken, isn’t it?
That’s where my money is and I love it.
Porque no los dos?
Lets hope Sal is actually interested in de-escalation that doesn’t involve someone seriously forgiving her out of nowhere for the clearly big deal thing she did to them when they did nothing to her and being willing to take little ribs from her without getting mad.
But instead involves her forgiving the other person a little for something they did to her and understanding they might still be mad about things she did to them.
The truth is we know Sal’s capable of true de-escalation. Ironically despite Marcies complaints her friendship with Amazigirl proves it. If you don’t count things from five years ago Sal handled Amazigirl extremely well with the information she had.
Amber that is not the face of Accepting the Consequences of your Actions.
I don’t think Amber thinks she was in the wrong, and if so, then she hasn’t reached the point to recognize that.
It’s not entirely clear what Amber thinks of that whole incident. It’s clearly not something she’s proud of. What’s unclear is which parts of the whole incident she’s most bothered by: Not protecting Ethan? Losing control? Or actually hurting Sal?
I personally doubt Amber thinks anything of disabling Sal’s hand for life other than ‘Stupid Amber! Too little too late! Too little too late! Where was this when Ethan was in danger? Stupid Amber!’ I don’t think there’s any ‘oh no, I did a horrible thing to another human being’ in there at all.
Some of that, but we’ve also seen her fear and hatred of her own rage and that’s likely the first time she saw that, so I think there’s more than just “I should have done it sooner”.
It might be more focused on her self-loathing for being the kind of monster who would do that than on actual concern for Sal.
No. It’s the face of a traumatized person facing a trigger for their trauma.
Hopefully she can get past that to a more rational state.
You can cut the tension with a knife.
Wait. Amber already did that to Sal’s hand.
Still, this day was a long time coming.
No, no, that was cutting the tendons with a knife. Common mistake, happens all the time.
Based on the placement of the cut, it appears her collateral ligaments weren’t collateral damage either.
De-escalate Sal! De-escalate!!
She just took off what’s effectively been her armour for the entire comic. A good start.
Or, if she starts asking Amber is she knows how she got that scar, it could be a very bad start.
…I’m not so sure about that.
Amber’s mind is ablaze right now. Her enemy is standing in front of her, she has no mask to hide behind. The Blaine-voice is screeching in her ear*. Amber’s both greatest mistakes – her failure to protect Ethan, and her attack of Sal after the deed was done – both symbolised by that scar. Sal looks her in the eyes. She opens her mouth and say…
…a batman joke?
I can’t think of any more effective de-escalation than that.
*) Fudge you, Blaine
“I’ve been waiting for this. Stab me again.”
‘left hand this time. Ah need to even em out’
That sounds like something my boyfriend would say. He has this need for things to be even and so if he burns his hand cooking he has to burn the other one. It’s never happened severely but it is one of those things that raises my eyebrow (and means I try to keep him from burning his hands).
ack. I am glad my brain does not extend that broken logic to injuries. :/ it fucking *sucks* to have your brain insist that you “even out” even minor shit.
Are you sure he’s not just trying to get out of doing the cooking?
If he wants to get out of cooking, why would he put more meat on the stove?
Positive. He loves cooking. I just have to remind him to wear mitts.
Aaah the panels are turning red in real time.
Pretty sure that’s just the sun setting behind them. At least I hope that’s what it is.
No way it’s not intentional though.
And very nicely done, I might add.
She knows but does she KNOW?!
Hm, I’m uncertain which way this is going to go. On one hand (no pun intended), Sal could decide to take some kind of revenge for the wound to her hand. On the other hand, she might carry on seeking some more forgiving resolution.
I’m curious to see which way this goes.
I am inclined to think the latter. We haven’t really seen Sal be all that vengeful. We’ve seen her have grudges with people, but not a lot of retaliation for it.
I doubt this is gonna come to blows. For one Ethan’s right there. I don’t think he’d just sit by and let two of his friends just beat the crap out of each other. Also they’re right in front of the campus. Probably still foot traffic around, witnesses and like you said Sal at least doesn’t seem the type to instigate a fight. I expect some harsh words but not a fight. Not yet anyway.
… I don’t see panel four as anger.
Is it just me?
Er. I meant five.
I agree. Five looks more solemn than angry. Six is more open to interpretation.
5 and 6 both look bitter. If 6 is anger and Sal escalates, she’ll have to reckon with Marcie. Anyway the whole Amber/Sal altercation is one of the blurriest instances of black and white I’ve seen. Perhaps tomorrow we see them try to blame each other… although while Sal was hurt by Amber, Amber was only truly hurt by Blaine. And Sal was hurt by Linda…
Maybe the three of them can bond over abusive parenting… but given who we’re dealing with here, nice things aren’t likely to happen.
Being present during a hostage situation where nobody got hurt doesn’t make stabbing the unarmed and restrained hostage taker afterwards morally blurry at all. It’s bad.
It is. Much like taking a hostage while robbing a convenience store isn’t morally blurry. It’s bad.
OTOH, 13 year old abuse victims often do bad things. And that does make it all morally blurry.
No it doesn’t. Trauma does not absolve you of moral responsibility for your actions.
Fine. They’re both morally responsible for their actions. They’re both evil monsters. Can we move on to innocent characters we’re allowed to care about?
You know it’s possibly to not prevaricate about morality without condemning someone as an irredeemable monster right? That’s a weirdly hard line stance from someone who was just going on about the moral complexities of stabbing a defenseless 13 year old.
Just frustration. Sorry.
Maybe we mean different things with “moral”.
I do find moral complexity in damn near anything an abused child does, especially in the wake of trauma, at the prodding of her abuser. Similarly, for what led Sal there in the first place.
Sure, if you want to put it that way, she did a bad thing. The reasons why she did it and the way the whole situation developed are where the moral complexity lies. That’s why this is actually interesting.
Or we can just reduce it to “It was bad”.
I do like how we need to emphasize Sal’s youth here, while ignoring that Amber was the same age.
Ignoring thr other replies, I see panel 6 as resolute.
It’s hard to tell without a clear view of the eyebrows. It might be guilt. It might be Amber on the verge of bursting into tears.
Oh, sorry, I’m clear over on seven.
Sal: You stabbed my hand.
Amber: You fucked my sanity!
Sal: That doesn’t make any sen-
Amber goes crazy again.
Now we can have Sal become the great cornholio.
You know I’m not sure even Amber has would have a slash-fic for her sanity and Sal.
Carla probably does
Or a stab-fic, perhaps?
I’m sorry, I live in Pun-town.
DEATHFIIIIIIIIGHT
I’m glad I guessed wrongly. A confrontation such as this will certainly get the (healing?) process started with a bang. Or maybe a punch. Hard to say with people prone to finding physical solutions to mental and social problems.
Amber why are you mad? YOU stabbed HER. Please relax or things are going to get real bad real quick
it just occurred to me that Sal was never going to apologize to Amber because she always saw as Ethan as the party she offended. Amber was just the person who stabbed her completely unprompted
That’s a good point actually. Amber’s kind of more in the wrong here at least from my perspective. She attacked Sal after she was already handcuffed and in custody right? Amber’s coming off pretty poorly right now. If I were her I’d open with an apology and count herself lucky if she gets one in return.
Makes sense. If you look back at the holdup from Sal’s perspective, Amber’s just some kid hiding her face. In the last panel here (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/siiiventeen/) especially, Amber’s inconsequentially off to the side, and just an obstacle she has to pull Ethan over.
So even from the start, Amber never had a starring role in Sal’s life. Except the stabbing.
Mh. She probably knows enough about traumas to know seeing a friend threatened also damages the mind. But that probably is outweighed by the stabbing.
She also has no reason to know anything about the abuse that set Amber up to do that in the first place.
I’m not even sure it would change things. It won’t make her hand any better. And trying to excuse the behaviour of someone who really hurt you makes most people just even more angry. Because your are basically telling them that their pain matters less than whatever the attacker went through, even though they were the victim.
In this comic everyone has a tragic backstory.
Sal should forgive Amber because she wants to be a de-escalator. And should apologize for what she herself actually did that hurt Amber.
I take some issue with the idea Sal has to forgive Amber in order to de-escalate. Saying ‘screw you’ and walking away to go to the back door or something like that would ALSO end the situation.
Seriously, deescalation just means moving the situation away from conflict.
Your right Sal does not need to forgive just make it clear she’s not going to be trouble if Amber isn’t.
Yeah, that would work too.
No, it might not. It might help her understand. Or she might not care, which is justifiable.
Sal did essentially the same thing to Leland that Amber did to her. Attacking him after the fact. Only with Sal it was after she found out the authorities were more prone to punish the victim than the villain and it was strangling instead of stabbing.
Shiiiiiiiii–
I thiiiink sal figured it out. And I think she still is a bit sore about being crippled.
And I’m wondering if walky and sal are close enough for her to tell him. If yes, it’ll stay interesting. I’m not sure how he’d react or if he’ll enforce a conversation about it but any way, it’ll make their relationship even more difficult.
I’m wondering if there’s about to be a fight and if Walky will stumble into the middle of it (or vice versa). He was just in the lobby a minute or so ago.
Ohh right! I forgot that.
And now I kind of want it to happen.
and this…IS MY SIGNER MARK!!!
Is that…a 5D’s reference? Or am I just missing the mark?
Queue the Kill Bill siren theme music any time now.
I’m leaning heavily towards “Battle Without Honor or Humanity.” Fits the tone here perfectly, that standoff before the fight starts (or something else breaks the tension).
Remind me. Sal went to a restrictive girls school. Did Amber have to go to juvenile hall?
Amber was supposed to go to therapy, but got martial arts lessons instead.
Turns out Blaine is not a very good father.
Damn. Guessed wrong.
The more I look at it the more Amber really seems like the villian in this scenario.
Blaine is the villain in this scenario. (With a side role for Linda (and Charles).)
Without them Sal doesn’t rob the store. Without Blaine, Amber doesn’t snap and stab her.
Amber is responsible for her own actions especially when said actions are fucking stabbing someone.
Not only that but just in general the way Amber has handled this has been pretty cowardly. Dodging Sal at every moment, versus Ethan who confronted and reconciled at his first opportunity.
Withholding information from Walky (yes it’s still early in their relationship but there really is no good time to bring that up) even imagining some unrealistic dream scenario where she can completely avoid the negative aspects of that conversation.
Stalking Sal as AG. Instigating a fight in a parking lot as AG. (Honestly a bit confused on how much Amber is aware of AG’s actions at that time.)
In general just unfairly blaming Sal for her rage issues and accusing her of stealing everything from her including turning Danny against her. None of that happened and isn’t anyones fault least of all Sal.
She doesn’t have to reconcile with Sal but she does need to acknowledge what she did and handle this situation better than she has instead of just avoiding it. Because that’s how you get expelled and arrested for fist fighting the girl you stabbed five years ago.
Amber was aware of AG’s actions at that point. Apparently up until the Ryan stabbings.
Whether she was in control of or responsible for those actions is a more difficult question.
It’s Amber’s responsibility she stabbed Sal, and it’s Sal’s responsibility she robbed the store and took Ethan hostage with a knife, but we can also acknowledge their parents roles that led to those things and, while nobody is obligated to do the same, I personally feel enough sympathy for their parents being shitheels that I’m more sad than angry at either of the girls.
Blaine, Linda and Charles can all go fuck themselves though.
Blaine was the catalyst for the initial incident on Amber’s side, but every action Amber took, from stabbing Sal up to this moment on the steps, was Amber’s decision. And Amber made some pretty heinous decisions when it came to Sal, including stalking her and trying to assault her on two separate occasions (as AG).
Acknowledging the impact Blaine had on Amber’s psyche and decision making process doesn’t have to absolve her of all responsibility when it comes to stabbing Sal. She is still the one that did it, and if Sal found out about Blaine’s relationship with Amber, it would be an explanation for why it happened, but it would not be an excuse.
I never said it was an excuse or that the responsibility isn’t Amber’s. All I said was that Blaine’s role in what led to Amber deciding to stab Sal made me sympathetic enough I am sad about it rather than angry.
Again, still replying to the entire thread, not just specifically your comment. I was expanding on “acknowledge their parents roles” while emphasizing the accountability of Amber’s own actions, as a reply to the original point “Amber is the villain in this scenario” and the counterpoint “the parents are the real villains”.
Amber’s situation is sympathetic, but her actions can still be scrutinized.
Fair enough.
Pretty much this.
Without Blaine, Amber still stalked Sal and tried to assault her on two separate occasions (as AG). Amber lashed out at Danny because he dared talk to Sal once. Amber is still responsible for her decisions, even if Blaine’s actions and behavior influenced her.
In the specific Sal v. Amber storyline, based on her own actions and behaviors, Amber can come across as the villain to Sal. Yes, there was outside influence, but Blaine’s abuse of Amber would not excuse her actions. She can still be sympathetic while also held accountable and scrutinized for the choices that she made.
Without Blaine, Amber isn’t Amazi-Girl. She doesn’t stab Sal. She’s probably not screwed up enough to have PTSD from the robbery at all and she probably gets therapy if she needs it. She never stalks Sal or tries to assault her.
And without Linda (and Charles), Sal never feels she needs to rob the store and thus there’s no chance for any of this.
Yes, given all that, she can easily come across as the villain to Sal. Ignoring the actual root causes of the problems makes it easy to assign blame. Sure: Amber making bad decisions. She shouldn’t be excused for that. But she does have serious untreated mental illness. Saying she needs to take responsibility for her actions is exactly like saying the clinically depressed person needs to get out of bed and take responsibility. It’s damn easy to say and nearly impossible to just do.
(And of course, there’s also the question as to how much responsibility Amber bears for Amazi-Girl’s actions or vice versa.)
I hate this line of thought because it implies abuse victims and the mentally ill are just inherently a danger to themselves and others and we should just “boys will be boys” it when they do something that hurts others. Lots of victims of much worse abuse than Amber have managed to not commit brutal acts of violence against the people around them. Sure, circumstances play a role but ultimately a person’s actions are down to the decisions they make.
No, it doesn’t imply that. It implies that we should allow them a little more leniency, and take a moment to understand instead of simply condemning. People WITHOUT mental illness do bad things and get the benefit of the doubt/a chance for redemption, so why should we not be especially inclined to do so for people who need it most?
You can still acknowledge that a person did bad things, and hold them accountable, WHILE ALSO being understanding and compassionate towards them.
And, bluntly, as someone who is mentally ill myself – yes, we ARE at a higher risk than others of being a danger to ourselves and those around us. Does that mean we should be treated woth paranoia? No. But there’s a REASON that every mental health professional has their assistants and nurses screen people for “have you had any thoughts of hurting yourself or others?” And that reason is because it is a very real possibility, worth considering.
You shouldn’t coddle them, either of them, but nor should you act like you can hold mentally ill children (at the time of the incident) to the same standard as mentally healthy people… OR adults, let alone mentally healthy adults.
Please also consider that NEITHER OF THEM have had proper treatment. Just looking at statistics alone, people with UNTREATED abuse/trauma/mental health issues have a much, much higher risk of harming themselves or others. Yes, Sal has mentioned seeing a therapist… AFTER the robbery, though. And she also said that it didn’t personally do her any good, which suggests to me that she has not received EFFECTIVE treatment.
These are raw, untreated teenagers with histories of trauma that have not been properly handled. This is the sort of confrontation that, say, a hostage negotiator or some other specialist in de-escalation would consider very explosive. They are both people that a doctor would consider to need special care.
Just because other people with mental health issues or trauma have “been through worse” and not done bad things does not mean that they should be held to the same “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” standards. It’s unfair, unhealthy, and would only make them feel worse if you said it to their faces.
I hate the rhetoric that people’s responses to pain, trauma, or struggle all have to be the same. (Usually, stoicism or “chin up.”)
(For the record, I think they both fucked up badly & need to atone… but Sal already did, largely.)
Also “mental illness” is an incredibly broad term. Many kinds of mental illness pose no greater risk than any normal person – some even less. In other cases, the risk is almost entirely to themselves.
In Amber’s case however at the moment she’s dangerous and that is very much tied to her PTSD, at least as a trigger. It’s not entirely clear where her berserk mode comes from, but it seems implied at least that it’s tied to her abuse.
The mentally ill are generally far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators and when it does happen, they’re more likely to hurt themselves than someone else, but you’re absolutely right this is an explosive situation and something to tread carefully with.
@Emily: Or it implies we should treat them and help them rather than just punish them.
I hate THIS argument because it basically boils down to “victims need to throw other victims (including children) under the bus for public relations reasons.” If someone can’t empathize with the impulsive actions of a couple of abused 13-year-olds without jumping to “all abused and/or mentally ill people should be viewed as dangerous,” that’s their problem, not a reason for the rest of us to take notions of “personal responsibility“ to the point of cruel absurdity.
I have clinical depression. How dare you compare suffering from a depressive state and staying in bed all day to lashing out physically and assaulting others. When I’m in a depressed state, the only person I hurt is myself. And hey, most mentally ill people are the same and have never hurt other people, least of all with physically violence.
I have said before that Amber’s situation and the circumstances leading up to it are sympathetic, but her actions are not excused or absolved because they were influenced by Blaine. Amber’s still the one that committed these deeds and holding her responsible for them makes sense. Thinking about it from Sal’s shoes, it doesn’t matter what Blaine did to Amber to lead up to the incident, he wasn’t the one with the knife. Amber was.
Being mentally ill is not an excuse for one’s actions. It is an explanation, but it is never an excuse and saying that Amber can’t be held accountable at all for any of her actions, even if they were under duress, is just an excuse. The circumstances that led up to what happened should be taken into account, but when it comes to Sal or anyone else affected by Amber’s actions, they’re going to look at the decisions Amber made, not the underlying reasons.
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to compare it in any moral sense, just in the sense that in either case “Just get better” isn’t helpful.
And yes, it’s likely that Sal’s just going to look at what Amber did, not her underlying reasons. Much like Amber and Ethan can just look at what Sal did, not her underlying reasons.
I agree that saying “Just get better” isn’t helpful or constructive in any way. That wasn’t a sentiment I was trying to say. I do agree that Amber needs help and proper treatment before any kind punishment, as that’d only exacerbate the problem. However, the crux of what I’m saying is the same as what Brotato said above: You can still acknowledge that a person did bad things, and hold them accountable, WHILE ALSO being understanding and compassionate towards them.
Knowing the root causes gives full context to a situation, but it doesn’t mitigate the damages done. Amber’s mental illness and the circumstances of her abuse explains her actions, but it doesn’t excuse the harm that she inflicted onto others. Sal’s injury doesn’t go away if she learns about Amber’s issues, that still happened. The same way that if Ethan learned about the circumstances that led Sal to holding up that convenience store that night doesn’t mean Sal never held a knife to his throat, or make her any less responsible for her actions.
To give an example, if in one of my worst anxiety- and depression-riddled states, I lashed out and verbally abused people, it is still on me to later make things right. Yes, I was not in a good state of mind and my mental illness affected my judgment and behavior, but that doesn’t justify or excuse my actions. I still need to take responsibility and apologize, and not expect people to overlook it because of the extenuating circumstances. That’s not fair for the people who have to be hit with that backlash. And on this point, Amber has done this in the past, or at least acknowledged that she needs to. After she lashed out at Danny, she told him that he shouldn’t forgive her or take her back until she apologized. She knows that she needs to apologize, and granted, she said that apologies are worthless if you can’t promise to stop the behavior, but that also indicates that it’s something she wants to work towards and become better at. This situation with Sal is no different.
Amber can get treatment for her mental illness and still take responsibility for her past actions. That’s a part of growth and recovery.
Why are you looking angry Amber? You have literally zero right
“You have zero right to be traumatized! So stop!”
Oh no, Sal’s hand. 🙁
OH NO, BLAINE EYES. D:
So it definitely looks like Sal figured it out.
Now, if a fight breaks out, and it probably will, will Amber’s fighting style also clue Sal in that she’s Amazi-girl?
I expect Sal already realizes Amber is Amazi-Girl.
YOU WHERE SAYING ETHAN?!?!
AND NOW THEY CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!!! YAAAAAAAY!
I hope so. I hope this is like on the lines of “vegeta bceomes part member” level
Friends? No, but possibly ad-hoc self-therepy buddies for a while until they are able to see something other than the ministers from their respective pasts.
Why the heck did auto-correct turn ‘monsters’ into ‘ministers’? Willis, have you been talking to the guys at Google again?
NOOOOOOOOOoo NOOOOOOOOOOOO
This is a fucking epic looking trip but I’m SO SCARED
NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not good not goo I’m very very stressed right now
Ethan’s face i my face
Amber is about to get her butt WHOOPED
Amber’s been holding Sal accountable for crimes she did as a child for ages.
Now it seems the shoe is on the other foot.
How comfortable her anonymity was in retrospect.
This is the music that’s running through my brain in the last few panels.
Now also available on ukulele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co95n2miceg
i love how willis times the interactions in DoA. i.e it’s sunset, everything is reddish, and this intense scene happens.
Growing up with all them cowboy tv shows, and cowboy movies, its lookin’ like a showdown at sunset. Since most of the showdowns were held at high noon, I think someone is gonna be riding off into the sunset, leaving their college career in the dust. Boy-howdy, (grabs popcorn) gonna be wild in Ms.Kitty’s Longbranch tonight. Chester, go see if you can find Matthew,… Or Palladin, or Doc Holliday. The Cisco Kid? The Rifleman? The Lone Ranger, or them young fellers from the Bonanza ranch down in that Big Valley?
Walky chimes in “Oh yeah? Well I can burp the Alphabet!”
oh f-
“Remember this?”
“Unfortunately, yes.”
Amber looks mad but at who and for what? Given how messed up her psyche is, that’s a difficult question to guess an answer!
There are several ways I want this to go.
1. Sal and Amber run away from each other, but Sal meets up later with Amazi-Girl at another house that Amazi-Girl had announced on various forums as where some of Ethan’s victims lived to beat up any of his friends who show up, and she opens up to AG about how Amber makes her feel. AG gives her good advice that she realizes she should also take and leaves, and as Sal is about to leave as well, she does a double-take like she did when she realized who Ethan was, realizing that AG and Amber are one and the same.
2. The exact same thing as 1, but Sal doesn’t realize that Amber and AG are the same.
3. Dina pops out of nowhere to say, “Ankylosaurus magniventris was covered with hard, bony plates that offered superb protection from various predators.”
Yeah Ethan s too nice.
I ca n only imagine what crimes hes hiding.
He’s nice until someone posts inaccurate info on the TWiki…
In the next panel, all the anger just immediately disappears from Sal’s face. She turns to Ethan, “So Apples, did you see who did this? Ah never got a good look.”
… Sal is quite capable of doing that, in a mix of “fuck your drama” and trying to descalate XD
Well, now the gloves have come off.
… I can’t believe no one beat me to that.
DailyBrad did 🙂
Also, we have an entire thread of puns a bit up. Come join the fun!
Showdown time
I think im one of the only optimistic people here I think the look on Sals face is literally her discomfort with how hard it is to forgive Amber for this but knowing this is what she neefs to do and Amber escalating rapidly turning her panic to rage. I fully expect Ethan to grab Amber and stop her fron hurting Sal
Yeah, people forget that Sal has seen and even fought alongside Amber several times (and I am willing to bet Sal is much more capable of putting two and two together and realizing who Amazigirl is). Sal is not going to be lunging
AMBER on the other hand I fully expect to snap
Even if Sal realizes who Amazi-Girl is, she has no idea that Amber and Amazi-Girl aren’t actually the same person, so that realization will just confuse things more.
I think Sal will realize pretty quickly. Sal is smarter than your average bear, for one. Plus Sal already knows that Amazi-Girl has a weird obsession with her and that according to Amazi-Girl they have history.
Yes, it’s possible that Sal will be the first person (other than Dina who lives with her) to deduce it.
It’s practically impossible that Sal is quickly going to also intuit out of pretty much nothing the whole disassociation, multiple personality thing.
Yeah, I’m having trouble reading Sal’s face (as was intended, is my guess), but I don’t THINK it’s “I’m about to start a fight with you”
I think she’s still at least a little pissed. Sal may not be ready to throw down right now, but I don’t think she’s going to be forgiving Amber entirely. (The only reason I could really see Sal doing so is if she finds out about Blaine and feels a stab of same parental abuse trauma empathy. Especially if she starts putting the pieces together about AG. ‘You stabbed me, stalked me, and decided we’re friends without coming clean first? What the fucking FUCK?’ Is an appropriate response.)
Sal’s not really obligated to forgive someone who permanently disabled her. I hope that the two of them find common ground eventually, because neither of them is willing to go to therapy and they both need SOMEONE to talk about this shit to, and I think if they do open up about their parents they’ll both recognize what the other did as terrible. (Blaine holds Amber’s necessary purchases like the laptop against her, I’m certain Amber will recognize the financial abuse even if she’s not equipped to get the racism elements.)
But realistically here, they don’t have to. Sal has a right to be angry her hand will never work well again. Amber has a lot of ‘this trauma is mine and belongs to me alone’ and being traumatized by circumstances that weren’t Sal, but Sal did hold Ethan hostage at knifepoint and that was a big deal to witness too. You don’t have to forgive someone for that shit. (I do think Amber needs to recognize that Sal isn’t actually the person who ultimately hurt her, just the flashpoint, and an apology for the stabbing would be in line, but that’s going to take a lot of untangling of shit and accounting for the fact that triggers aren’t rational and such.)
Wow, that’s a very big scar.
That hand must have needed a lot of physiotherapy after…
This could go a few ways!
What I’m hoping doesnt happen, is Sal and Amber start to come to blows and Ethan gets between them.
…and Amber hurts Ethan…
…and Marcie comes around the corner…
Cue next meltdown(s).
I’m wondering if Amber and Amazi-Girl will start fighting over control of their body.
*Kill Bill siren*
I’m pretty sure that Amber is going onto defence mode. She thinks Sal is going to attack her.
Meanwhile, Sal is harder to read but I can hear some Ennio Morricone music playing. This has the feel of showing the Black Hat the scar they left on you during your previous duel and then waiting for them to draw.
In other words, both girls are expecting the other to attack them and are waiting for them to throw the first punch. Poor Ethan has likely never felt so out of place!
If anything, I suspect she thinks (feels really – thinking isn’t really part of the process) that Sal’s going to attack Ethan.
I hope no one pulls out a phone, I don’t want a rerun of the Ryan incident.
oh dear, I’m worried.
Oh shit. I gotta rewatch Fight Club!
Well, fork. Shirt’s going down.
Unless a twist is in the air?
I spot a the good place fan
Bortles!
The twist is that Ethan’s about to throw a molotov cocktail.
“Anytime I had a problem and I threw a Molotov cocktail, boom! Right away, I had a different problem.”
Cookiemoose!
Are you proposing they all smoke pot?
That’d be a way to deescalate, I suppose…
I remember somebody said that, if they ever met again they probably would have moved on and act like adults.
Ahhhh it’s moments like this that I treasure . XD
Well, it’s The Good, The Bad and The Ugly final scene time …
Ummph Aaah Eee-oo
Morricone would be proud!
Uh oh.
Did somebody find and pull the Dumbiverse drama tag?
Oh that tag has been pulled down a long time ago
The tag never existed to begin with. The tag prevented drama, we’ve had drama from the begining.
Draaaaaaaamz.
FINALLY!!!!! its about time this whole thing came to a head.
Love how Willis doesn’t shy away from the drama.
When shits gonna go down, it goes down. We see how all these broken people react to bad situations, and how they deal with the consequences afterward.
Some storytellers are afraid of that. They build up the drama, then come up with reasons to defuse it before it comes to a head.
Am I the only one reading this as Amber /expecting/ Sal to immediately recognize her and call her out, and AG preparing for said confrontation? Not that Sal /actually/ decided the first thing to do here was start something, despite her behavior with Ethan and acknowledgement that she needs to work on her temper?
Amazagirl exists to stop and channel Amber s aggression.
Right now Amber is the danger.
just saying that if Sal has been wearing gloves 24/7 since 14, her hand should be wayyy lighter than her face by now. And… muscle is what makes the hand into a fist, but you need the tendons to open the hand into a palm. Muscle as flesh is easy to sew up. Tendons are like stretched elastic bands, if cutted they would retract and hide. Also the hand is a jigsaw of little bones in a precise set. You can hope that they were just pushed appart by the knife, but if some of them got scrambled or loose… thats a lot of surgery and therapy… and pain for months.
Yeah, given she’s said it doesn’t work so well anymore, pretty sure that’s the post-surgery and PT result.
Yeah, I did quite a bit of research before we saw the scar and all accounts seemed to be ‘yeah, if the knife went through her hand (as the book PDFs said), her hand is FUCKED. UP.’
Getting stabbed when she was thirteen means that’s probably the post surgery and therapy part and I’m guessing her hand still occasionally hurts like a bongo.
A scar like that? Hitting tendons and ligaments and maybe some bones? Yeah, guessing it hurts and Sal can sense when it’s going to rain now.
Nerve damage probably too. Yeah, I’m guessing if/when we get to winter/colder weather, it is going to be NOT FUN. It might not have been so bad in Tennessee where its likely at least a bit warmer, but in Indiana? Ouch.
Screen swirls. Environment completely changes. Boss music starts playing.
To be honest, even though there’s been all this talk about Sal apogizing to Amber or forgiving Amber or what have you, at the end of the day Sal doesn’t really owe Amber anything. I mean, if she connects ALL the dots here’s the girl who not only stabbed her years ago, but has also antagonized her for weeks?(i always get the time scaling wrong here)
It would be a huge step backwards for Sal’s development but Sal could blame Amber for the widening rift in her friendship with Marcie. I hope for some form of resolution here but I just don’t think Sal has to do the most of the legwork in this situation
Might feel more than a little betrayed with regards to AG too.
You could cut the tension with a knife but I guess it’s good no one has one.
ha
This bodes well. */s*
Ratcheting up the tension to the nth degree.
Man, the surgery to reattach all that must have been long
Damn you Willis, don’t you dare change to another story before this is resolved!
Don’t jinx it! he’s probably just gonna take that as a challenge. Now the next five strips are gonna be dedicated to Marcie’s and Malaya’s adventures at the Roller Derby.
I don’t think Sal’s going to start a fight here, but she’s clearly angry and hurt about what happened. And with every right! I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some kind of confrontation even if it’s not a physical one. “Why” would be an extremely fair question to ask of Amber, from Sal’s perspective.
Sal… MIGHT… have internalized the gas station incident as a turning point in her life. A positive one. She was pulled away from her life of crime, and ended up where she is now. It all worked out for the best in the end, and it might all be because of that one girl who stabbed her and gave her the wake-up call she needed.
She’s had a lot of time to process and think about what happened.
She might be about to THANK Amber for what she did.
Considering the turning point in question almost certainly involved a fuckton of emotional abuse from her parents, being shipped out of state to a prison-esque school (not to mention apparently a ton of crappy therapists) and away from her only support system, not to mention almost certainly involving a ton of physical therapy and at least one surgery for what turned out to be a permanently disabling injury?
I find any sort of ‘positive turning point’ idea unlikely.
And I find ‘life of crime’ to be an extreme exaggeration. She was a lookout for one robbery and the other one was solo. Two incidents that took place within 24 hours of each other is hardly a life of crime.
No, but if it had been successful, it still wouldn’t have been enough for the surgery and she likely would have felt compelled to keep going.
I doubt she sees it as a positive though.
Maybe, but that still seems like a pretty big assumption and ‘life of crime’ still sounds like an exaggeration.
Has anyone made a DoA D&D Alignment Chart? If not, I was thinking the following:
Lawful Good: Amazi-Girl
Lawful Neutral: Joyce
Lawful Evil: Mary
Neutral Good: Ethan
True Neutral: Walky
Neutral Evil: Carla
Chaotic Good: Joe
Chaotic Neutral: Amber
Chaotic Evil: Mike
Let me amend that. Joyce doesn’t really fit on the chart, that or she’ll be switching positions over time. I think Ruth should go in the Lawful Neutral slot.
heh, almost none of those are even close.
Then please elaborate.
I get where you’re coming from in putting Amazigirl in Lawful Good, because she does want people to obey the letter of the law… But she breaks it too much herself for me to think of her there. Likewise, I wouldn’t put Mike in Chaotic Evil, considering that his motives are kind of hard to read. Long-term his dickery seems to put people on the path to understanding themselves.
My alternative:
Lawful Good: Joyce (?)
Lawful Neutral: Jacob
Lawful Evil: Mary
Neutral Good: Amazigirl
True Neutral: Walky
Neutral Evil: Scarface
Chaotic Good: Sal
Chaotic Neutral: Mike
Chaotic Evil: Toedad
I think Amazi-girl sometimes finds herself being forced to either break a personal rule or a local rule, and has to make a choice. Plus, lawful characters don’t never break rules. I’d say Amazi-girl is definitely lawful; I think she’s as lawful as Superman is. She was ready to turn her friends in just for breaking the dorm rules. Besides, you can’t disagree that Ethan is a perfect fit for Neutral Good.
I’ll agree with Ryan being Neutral Evil but I was preferring to keep the grouping closer to home where possible. I don’t know so much about Carla but I do remember her wanting to hurt people for the sake of making them whine. Then again, IIRC she didn’t want them sad so much as she wanted them to retaliate because she finds the fight fun. She might be chaotic neutral then. But I don’t really know Carla very well and I haven’t read the Ultra-Car comics.
I can agree with Mike not really being evil. But Amber really is an excellent choice for Chaotic Neutral, and a more major character in the story.
I suppose there isn’t any major character who is chaotic evil. But Mike is the closest and sometimes I’m not sure he isn’t.
Joyce is discovering that she is more ng than lg. I would place Amazigirl as LN or even LE (it isn’t about justice for AG, it’s about punching people she feels she can get away with punching). Would call Mary NE because her code is more one of convenience than sincere belief. Toedad is LE. I think you have scarface pegged right. Would peg Mike as CE. Carla is CN. Becky CG. Dina… probably LN? Jacob I haven’t seen enough of. Sarah probably TN. Walky definitely TN. Sal CN or maybe CG. Ethan… I am not sure where to place. We haven’t seen him confront a moral crisis yet. NX, where X is either N or G, probably.
okay?
DnD alignments are never close because it’s a garbage system.
I have to disagree with that. Seems usually when people say that, it turns out they don’t quite understand how the system works, or are taking it too rigidly. Of course there’s much more that defines a character, but most people don’t make major alignment changes throughout their life unless they go through a major personal development–like Joyce, and even she’s not shifting much.
Most importantly, it’s for fun! I find it to be a fun way to map out characters. Generally the biggest concern I think you can raise legitimately is that a group never pans out evenly across the chart; you always have a bunch bundled together on a few alignments and a couple of empty spaces. It usually takes 30+ characters to get your 9 slots filled.
Howabout wizard houses? Which houses do you think the sorting hat would put each character into?
Some obvious ones:
Dorothy: Ravenclaw
Joyce: Griffindor
Ethan: Hufflepuff
Sal: Slytherin
Some I’m finding hard to place: Amber, Walky
Just to be contrary
Dorothy: Slytherin – for the ambition.
Joyce: Hufflepuff – she’s all about making friends with everyone.
Sal: Gryffindor – She lacks the ambition or manipulativeness for Slytherin, though she’s got the bad attitude. OTOH, she’s got the stupid heroism thing that fits Gryffindor.
Amber: Gryffindor, but no one knows why until they find out about AG.
Billie: Slytherin along with Roz and Mary
I actually think Sal’d end up in Hufflepuff – she clearly values loyalty and justice, and it’s the values that determine where you’re sorted.
I’m putting both Becky and Dina in Ravenclaw; Danny in Hufflepuff; Sara in Slytherin; Joe in Gryffindor.
Sal is showing her scar. Amber is about to show hers.
Amber knows about Sal’s scar. Sal doesn’t know about Amber’s Trauma. Asymmetric warfate is about to break out.
Amber is about to show Sal her mental scar?
Oh, hey! Apparently, I’m a patron on Patreon? When did I do that? Gonna go read those bonus strips.
Two of the bonus strips can’t be viewed at full size and so it’s difficult to read the text. But not to worry! There are transcriptions in the comments!
I’m honestly terrified about how this will end.
I swear if tommorrow is a scene change I will find Willis and walk up to him and say “Damn you” and he will be moderately creeped out.
At least you warned him in the comments!
I have this fear that Amber’s gonna escalate things, Marcie’s gonna see them fighting, and decide to wash her hands of Sal, who (from her perspective) couldn’t keep from fighting for like, five minutes after talking about “getting better” and Sal’s just… gonna be so broken.
I’m writing this down because whenever I predict things it doesn’t come true, so here’s hoping! D:
You look like you need this strip:http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/erase/
Actually, everyone can use that strip. It an adorable strip.
Ah, it feels so long since then… (and, I mean, IRL it has been, but in-universe it hasn’t been that long at all, has it?). Not getting much of those feelings from Marcie lately, though ):
Shhhhh. Just look at the cute thing. Save current events for later. 😛
She’s actually taking off her glove to take a selfie because the phone’s touchscreen won’t work if you’re not bare-skinned.
Amber understands this and hates having her picture taken.
It Was Her Phone!
I think if there’s any opportunity for this to de-escalate, it’s going to require Ethan to show more spine than he usually does.
You know, Sal may not even be looking at Amber. Seh may be looking at Ethan, showing him the wound, so she can ask him if he knows who did it, not even realizing that it was Amber.
Oh, just a nasty scar…
See, I honestly thought that Amber had cut off her pinky or something more handicapping.
A nasty scar and likely some significant loss of function.
She stabbed her THROUGH THE HAND. She’s mentioned not being able to use that hand well. Tendons, ligaments, bones…
Nerves, muscles, silly things like that.
Not gonna lie, I’ve been waiting for this since book 4.
Saaaal… this is a perfect chance to kill two birds with one stone. Defuse the situation with Amber, then tell her that you and Amazi-Girl are thru with the vigilante violence.
*Amber stares with a look of DETERMINATION.
*What will Sal do?
*ATTACK *LOOK *ACT *ITEM *MERCY
As you can tell, I’ve been watching too much Deltarune.
Longest 24 hours ever, right now. Be midnight again, damn it! Words!!!