She’s clearly feigning weakness by calling attention to her injury. I must quickly flip this chair out from under me while tumbling backward, and use it to block the attack. Then, I’ll jump out the window, flip off a tree branch, run across some rooftops, leap onto a truck, and ride away on top of it while giving a double middle-finger. Yeah, that should be good. I mean, that’s how I made my last friend, right?
Always lumbering about, staring at me with that unchanging wooden expression.. surely, that gives you a kindling of an idea of what I suffered?
Here, I’ve kept extensive logs, you should take a look. Anyway, frankly, I was board of it, and I wanted to let it know, so I decided to try branching out into new methods of interaction. I couldn’t quite put a finger on how I wanted to handle things, but then I came up with this super handy approach. Boom, bam, another one bites the sawdust. It may seem like I’m palming all the credit, but I really do think only I could have grasped the situation quite as firmly, not to mention being willing to knuckle down to do what needed to be done. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough, so I won’t stick around any longer; I’ll leaves you to think of an appropriately sappy response.
Honestly, I think that was well-played. Sal is demonstrating precisely what she’s forgiving Amber for, which prevents Amber from minimizing what she’d done, while opening the door for Amber to forgive her in turn.
The background of the last panel is red, but the characters are colored in the strip’s normal palette and not tinted red. Emergence/freeing from past trauma, perhaps?
Also, just because they’re forgiving each other doesn’t mean Amber’s problems are solved. Anxiety, PTSD, DID, and anger issues just don’t work that way, and forgiveness can be a long and hard process by itself, never mind when both parties caused permanent damage to each other.
I think even if Amber accepts this there’s still a decent chance being surprised by Sal will set off her fear reflexes for some time. And AG hasn’t been party to any of this, which will at MINIMUM confuse the shit out of her. (That one is easily another eight years of our time before we see anything resembling a resolution – even if Amber checked herself into a hospital in the next strip she’ll probably still be trying to manage things for the rest of the comic. I mean Ruth hasn’t even seen real effects from her antidepressants yet.) Also Blaine’s still around.
YEP. I’m waiting on AG’s reaction here. A big part of AG’s identity is wrapped in the need to protect people from Amber’s rage. And, like, that’s still a problem, but it’s still got to be some sort of step forward if she makes nice with Sal.
As much as Amber likes to play pretend, her and AG are the same person. So maybe she’ll need to get over her need to pretend they’re not sharing the same brain and experiencing the same things.
So what you’re saying is after this hard earned, heart warming page that shows the fruits of eight years of character development of these two characters they’ll both immediately backslide into hating each other! Amber’s gonna slap Sal’s hand, chairs will be thrown and round 2 starts!
That is not what I said at all. What I said is that forgiving people can be a long hard process even when both parties agree they want it, and the fact they both caused permanent damage to each other and are struggling with trauma related to each other probably wouldn’t help. For instance, they can generally have made nice and Amber can still have flashbacks when Sal surprises her, or Sal can still feel resentful days her hand is giving her trouble. It’s not necessarily rational, but neither are people all the time.
And even if they both forgive each other, I’m not entirely certain ‘friends’ was what they’d want under any circumstances but what they have here. They can make peace, make nice for Walky, and never get along. They can do that and live in the same hall. I’m not sure they can do both at once while also Sal fights crime with Amber’s alterego, but that’s another story.
I really don’t know where that storyline is going to go. I don’t think this is going to be that story that goes ‘violence is bad!!! Even when you’re stopping rapists from enacting further violence!’ (at least, I hope not – I respect Willis enough to think that’s not where he’s going with this) but at the same time, that’s all about to get more complicated.
I’m hoping it leans towards ‘punch a rapist when you have to, but OUTSMART a rapist if you can first and have a good support system in play so punching rapists isn’t your only outlet for Emotions.’ Still leaves the door open for big action sequences while also acknowledging there are options that aren’t the line AG and Sal both gave about anger needing to be let out away from good people. (I mean yes, but have you considered roller derby?)
And my comment was more ‘they may make peace, but progress doesn’t mean InstaFriends and even as the narrative pushes them together there’ll be bumps.’
My hope is that the dude bros get reported, reprimanded, or even expelled for generally causing mayhem on campus. They are the same guys that bullied Danny day one. And hopefully the administration will do the responsible thing and expell Ryan for being a rapist what with all these girls that have come out against him. Even hooded skeptic guy couldn’t believe they’re all lying! But that sounds like wishful thinking right now. I’m all for beating up rapists but that’s not a viable long term solution.
@ Regalli – Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for. A) Emotional support (and therapy for Amber, please, I will BEG), B) Fight smart. Look for ways to destroy them and try to pick times when it won’t blow up on you and your friends if it gets physical, and C) If all else fails, make them bleed.
@ Kris – When more legit channels can’t (or won’t) handle things or when you have very valid reasons to hesitate to involve them (like Sal being black with a record and not wanting to volunteer to assaulting guys) I think it can be the only way for there to be ANY consequences (especially when combined with a social media campaign that won’t be shut up). If it’s possible, I’d be down for them being expelled. And run out of polite society.
“Make nice for Walky?!” I’m sorry but you lost me. That idiot doesn’t even know what’s happened yet and I doubt he’d do the same for Sal. I don’t even give him credit enough to sympathize with Sal when/if he finds out the whole story. Make peace for themselves sure, but Walky can go suck on week old mcnuggets!
I have a little hope Walky is trying to actively repair and rebuild his relationship with Sal, and that means ‘don’t get estranged if Sal says it’s me or the girl you’ve dated less than two days’. And I think Sal’s going to try and Not have to do that.)
Honestly, Sal shouldn’t even have to ask. “Maybe don’t date the girl who stabbed and harassed your sister” seems like something that you should just kinda know is a good move on your own.
Well yeah, I’m withholding judgement until he actually knows but if he continues to date Amber after finding out it’s certainly not going to help my view of him as a shitty brother.
Just off the top of my head, I’m dying to know how Joyce’s parents are doing, see story development for Jocelyn, some Joe, more Carla, more Leslie, more Dina, and more Becky&Dina.
I’m still waiting for Jocelyne to come out to Joyce. She hinted at it a couple books back, saying they should talk. Also I want to find out what happened to Jordan.
The last couple of books have been other characters, I vote we turn back to the Browns.
I’m bracing for that, since both of them are missing context. Sal doesn’t know how badly Amber got messed up by Blaine, she just knows Amber got scared and enraged after she took Ethan hostage. Amber doesn’t know Sal’s motivation or regret over what happened, she just knows she’s a violent criminal who hurt her best friend.
That would require both of them to open up more, and honestly I’m not sure if Amber’s ready for that. She hasn’t had an epiphany like Sal did a few strips back. I don’t think she’s ready to stop projecting her demons on Sal yet anyway.
I was just coming here to say that. While I definitely feel for Amber too, I can’t imagine having the courage and kindness to do what Sal’s doing here if I’d been in her shoes. She just gained a lot of points in my mind, and I already liked Sal a lot.
I see more and more that Sal is amazing for doing this while Amber…..Amber seems like she’s lost in her own hell and can’t seem to leave it or want to, she seems content in it.
If it’s: either “good” or “bad”, the options are discrete and therefore the set “how will it go” will have a discrete number of possibilities, which puts it in a binary.
If we’re talking about the whole spectrum of possibilities, I’d say it’s a normal distribution where most things are usually kind of okayish, with Std Deviations landing you in “good” or “bad”, with possibilities among “absolutely horrendous” and “absolutely wonderful”.
However my personal reading of the situation is that it’s a bimodal, with peaks in “bad” and “good”, with a bit more probability on the “bad”, but because it’s Willis, non-zero chances for other scenarios.
This must be so stressful for Sal—she never exposes her hand under any circumstances, and now she’s exposing it to the person who caused her the trauma to begin with. I really hope Amber returns the sentiment.
Try clearing out your cookies, and comment again. I think it will randomize another avatar. I had a Joyce picture for the longest time, did that, and now I’ve got “Cool Sal”.
The gravatar-assigning algorithm is based on your email address. It takes case into account, so you can change your gravatar by changing one or more letters from upper case to lower case or vice versa.
You can’t determine your gravatar by this method, but you can play gravatar roulette until you get one like.
Periodically, Willis updates the gravatar pics, which does force a one-time randomization, which is probably how you got Cool Sal.
Nah, Sal’s got her number. That is to say, she knows that Amber is MOST affected by her OWN actions, and is plagued with guilt. She’s rather insightful, and empathetic, especially to push past exhaustion and risk her neck like this.
She could take this badly too though. And very likely would have before now.
OTOH, maybe this way can slip through while the “You can’t forgive me, I’m a monster” and the “You can’t forgive me, you’re a monster” sides of her brain are fighting over how to reject it.
What I mean to say is, though Sal should (at some point) extend an apology to Amber AS WELL AS Ethan (who took it all quite well), the first priority is, as it should be, to address Amber’s main baggage if either of them expect to heal. That baggage is her guilt complex (among other things).
Remember also, Amber thinks of herself as a garbage person and a monster. Being told she’s been forgiven for her actions might have a even more powerful effect than an apology
I think it’s better to give first and then ask for requital, rather than to ask first and then give. An apology may be interpreted as a request for forgiveness.
If I threatened to kill someone’s best friend and held a lethal weapon to their neck I would feel presumptuous leading with an apology even if the retaliation was unjustified and life altering.
Wouldn’t you feel even more presumptuous offering forgiveness to them?
The problem with this approach is that it doesn’t acknowledge Sal doing anything wrong and even in offering forgiveness she’s implicitly placing the blame on Amber.
Don’t get me wrong, this is a big step for Sal. It means a lot that she can do this. It just might not be the best way to make peace here.
I’m not.
If you’re saying that because of the stabbing Sal is perfect and has never done anything wrong, we also have a problem.
Sal did not come in here demanding remuneration, whether or not any is owed. If she had, I’d be a lot less happy with her, since even if it’s what’s owed her, that would have been likely to just start the fight back up again.
She’s here to make peace, if I’m reading her right. If she actually wants to do that, then acknowledging her own faults might be a good step, even if they’re much less than Amber’s.
Amber forfeit any right to an apology for the robbery when she stabbed, stalked, and harassed Sal in retaliation for it. When your retribution so vastly exceeds the scope of the original wrong you don’t get an apology you just hope they’re less vengeful than you.
I am tired of people who are part of minority groups (be they fictional or real) being expected to grant forgiveness to people in majority groups who harm them especially when those people have made no effort to earn that forgiveness.
I am tired of media pretending absolving someone who harmed you is something you do for yourself rather than for their benefit because absolving them and letting go of your resentment towards them and moving on are not mutually inclusive.
Yeah. Like, on a character level, it’s development for Sal resolving to put her tendency to do ‘big things’ to more positive use, and it’s her ending a cycle of lashing out and escalating.
Unfortunately, it exists in a world where marginalized characters routinely forgive characters who wrong them, often without the other person actually being sorry or justice being done, which does sour the scene.
Yeah, Sal absolutely does not owe Amber a thing. Sal would be within reason to demand Amber apologize to her, or just tell her they should just keep hating each other but never interact again
One of my pinky’s is pretty jacked from a football incident. So much horror.
It will never be able to be set right again but I have some particularly firm gloves I wear which hold it pretty much where it is supposed to be. Sal might use the same kind.
I honestly don’t know what it must take for an 18 year old who’s been through as much shit as Sal to forgive the person whom she can legitimately hold responsible for some of said shit before that person has even apologized.
Sal deserves all good things and I fervently hope she gets them.
You sometimes have to forgive people who haven’t yet offered an apology, or it’s never going to happen.
signed, someone with a lot of baggage from a mom who is quite literally unable to understand what she’s done to her family through mental health, addiction, and plain selfishness.
Yeah, I know, and I know forgiveness is as much for the healing of the forgiver as the forgiven. But Sal is young, and is carrying so much of her own trauma and baggage that I’m frankly in awe that she can summon this kind of empathy.
Compassion’s one of Sal’s bigger characteristics. It’s (partially) where that sense of justice comes from and that’s what fuels a good deal of her rage.
If we keep addressing and potentially resolving plot threads as old as the comic itself at this rate, DoA will turn into El Goonish Shive! Which I wouldn’t complain about, we’re overdue for maybe the fifth or sixth genderfluid character ever.
I’m very glad. I hope Amber can forgive Sal, too. I do hope the last panel being red isn’t going to be her being mad Sal isn’t saying sorry, too, since I don’t think Sal is operating under the premise she didn’t fuck up, too, since of course she apologized to Ethan. I really just want the both of them to be able to put this all behind them.
They’ve both got a lot of stuff to work through without adding each other to that list, after all. Sal still has the problem of Marcie and Malaya, for instance, and Amber’s got to handle whenever Dorothy finds out about her and Walky, and the both of them are going to have the problem of, Walky WILL find out about this fight.
I can’t imagine he’s going to be thrilled about that.
Red background huh. This can go in a few directions.
Honestly, it’s just kinda, mmf. This is good character development for Sal. I’m glad she took that moment to reach out, even if its not with the best method overall, but good for her seeking a mutual agreement. Judging by the Red there’s a distinct possibility Amber might lash out at being forgiven by a person she sees as a monster, whatever, she might not be terrible who knows.
That all said, point of order, i do feel a teensy bit ingratiated by this whole scenario, specifically because of all the Other Shit Amber’s been pulling recently, ie the harassment and the stalking and the general airs of misdirection that’s led them to this, and the fact that that in particular really hasn’t been resolved. And it might. And maybe this moment isn’t meant to address them because they’ll be addressed later, or because that’s not thematically as important as the Incident so many years ago, or because it’s just more poignant Sal take this situation where she really does have good reason to be angry and righteous and chooses forgiveness instead. Maybe. But the lack of real action, real reparations, means i’m just watching once again a person of color forgive the transgressions of the white person, and not because it’s earned, but because they came to understand them. I don’t much care for that, for Amber’s complicity in her own bullshit.
But, compared to my anger of the last few strips of this arc, I’m largely just nonplussed. Because that’s just one vector of a fairly complex scenario right now, and I don’t want to miss the forest for the trees here.
To not be mistaken: I think Sal is really largely doing a good thing here and I am proud of it, and I’m open to see some genuine reparations in the future should they come up, there’s just something unavoidable about this specific narrative arc that sours it just a little.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. Given the discussions of white privilege over the last few days and the repeated pressure from several commenters for the WOC to have to take full responsibility when the white woman has yet to acknowledge that she’s done anything fucked up to the other party is… tired. But like you said, maybe they’ll address those other things later. Personally, I don’t think it would be right or good for Sal to just sweep it all under the rug because she learned of Amber’s circumstances. She’s still culpable for the shit she pulled, and should be held accountable.
But yes, Sal’s doing a really great thing, and it’s sure to be a part of her personal growth as well as Amber’s. It’s still very bittersweet, though.
Yeah, this is kind of bugging me too. If it weren’t for the larger media context, it might not bother me so much, but that context is there. I just hope Amber follows suit.
This is precisely my discomfort with the ethics of the situation too. I know forgiveness is powerful and it doesn’t make the forgiver the smaller person, but there’s something painful about people who have suffered (esp. when it’s a member of a minority) forgiving those they can hold responsible for that suffering. Especially when the latter doesn’t realize or won’t admit that they’ve done something wrong. We see this pattern in real life constantly (Charleston survivors forgiving Dylann Roof) and it only ever makes me uncomfortable. I really really hope Amber’s response is remorse and not something that completely misses the point.
I hope so. I really want this spiral to stop, and Amber clearly understands on some level how wrong what she did is – she wouldn’t think of herself as a monster otherwise – but she still needs to take those steps to ‘and also, that stalking thing was creepy as FUCK.’
I suspect, though, that Amber’s not going to realize the depths of her issues until they all come crashing down on her later. Still, the big one here for Sal is the stabbing, and Amber does feel guilt for that one. If we get that, I can live with what we have for now. (Along with maybe a panel in Walky and Amber’s conversation where Walky goes ‘so long as that’s your big secret!’ and an ominous beat panel.)
It’s important, though, that Sal realized her own responsibility, that her violence led to more violence. It might have been better if she’d said, “I forgive you. I hope, some day, you can forgive me.”
I only realized “mmf” was onomatopoetic (equivalent to “meh”) after I looked it up on Urban Dictionary… yeah that’s not the definition you intended at all…
Yeah, I don’t like this development for those reasons. Like, I understand forgiveness as something you do for yourself rather than for the person who harmed you but generally that kind of forgiveness is a silent personal resolution to let that resentment go rather than an actual spoken acquittal to the person in question specifically because it’s not actually about them or their feelings. But I am so so so so tired of narratives where minorities have to be the bigger person to a person who has harmed them especially when that person has done nothing to earn forgiveness they just get it because “it’s the right thing to do” or “it’s good for you.” I was really hoping for better from this whole thing but I’m not really surprised because our society just loves that “turn the other cheek” shit but only when it applies to minorities getting mad about being mistreated.
The way I see it, Amber hates being forgiven for her ugly deeds in part because they make her worry she is becoming her father—which she is in turn terrified of because, ultimately, her father got her to stab Sal.
So this could go one of two ways. One is very good, and one is very bad.
I rarely see depictions of forgiveness that I like. The problem isn’t with forgiveness as a concept, but with the concept that forgiveness is, somehow, necessary or a requirement. Often times, they create a situation wherein the one who doesn’t forgive is the new bad-guy or must feel guilty for that.
It isn’t good to do that. Making it something you *have* to do actually takes away agency and, thus, takes away the ability to make that choice for oneself.
Here’s Sal taking a breath and making that choice, seemingly absent pressure or inducement to do so.
I’d argue there is pressure on Sal to be the bigger person because the plot requires it for this to be resolved. Sal has to be more mature and empathetic because Amber is allowed to be erratic/deluded/mentally ill.
Yeah, fuck Rachel. She doesn’t have to forgive Ruth, but that kind of “I’m gonna tear you down even as you try to build yourself up” bullshit is part of what led to this situation (Amber was at that meeting, remember?). Did anyone call her out on it? Because someone should.
Forgiveness is a pretty paradoxical concept really. Like, when you forgive someone you are saying that what they did, perhaps even who they were, was bad–if it weren’t bad, you wouldn’t have to forgive it (and try telling someone you “forgive them” for something they’re proud of: they’ll tell you to piss off). But somehow, you’re still saying that the badness doesn’t matter, or that it isn’t who they are anymore, or just promising to try to work past it with them.
I dunno, forgiveness confuses me sometimes. There are people in my past who have done some horrible things to me: have I forgiven them? I don’t know. I’ve long moved past my anger towards them, but that feels like only part of what it would mean to forgive them.
I guess that’s what’s so great about this depiction to me. Sal isn’t just discarding her anger at Amber–no small feat itself, considering that both their angers had them fighting like 10 min earlier–isn’t just detaching and walking away. She’s reaching out to Amber, treating her fully as a human being and not as a monster or whatever else. I worry this won’t go down well though, since Amber thinks of *herself* as a monster.
It’s less saying that it doesn’t matter and more saying that they don’t owe you anything anymore. The language comes from language of debt.
And, yeah, with regards to some of the people did things to me in the past… there’s another bit of language from the language of debt that I choose to use. I write them off as bad debt.
It’s not to say that they’re necessarily bad people. It is to say that, if they called me out of the blue to say that they suddenly noticed that harassing and emotionally abusing a child isn’t a good thing to do and would I mind terribly taking away their bad feels about that, I wouldn’t. I don’t feel the need to forgive them *or* to go seeking revenge. Neither would I refuse forgiveness in all conditions, but it’s my choice.
This. I don’t know that I would be able to forgive like Sal here. But Sal seems to be making the choice of her own free will, having seemingly been satisfied that forgiveness is warranted, without being emotionally blackmailed into forgiving. That is better than 99% of depictions of forgiveness I have seen.
Trust me on this. I’ve played the patreon game on other webcomics. You’re exchanging one form of hell for another! It’s a nice high but the truth is the waiting never stops. You will always run out of pages! ö_ö
Would someone please remind me how to bring up the alt text when viewing this site on a mobile device? I won myself an RCA Cambio 12.2-inch tablet with a docking keyboard and I’m playing with that tonight.
Having processed the full import of this strip, I can now snicker at Sal’s dialogue in the first panel. “Ya got traumatized… so ya started wearin’ pajamas.”
Why does Amber say “go off” rather than “go on?” That’s strange. It’s a good sign in the last frame that Amber uncrosses her arms, thus dropping the defensive posture.
It’s colloquial lingo. To go off indicates going off on a rant, usually emotions or not thought through. In a positive light it’s just to relieve tension in an outburst. There is, however, a specific context where you undermine a point someone’s making, sometimes justifiably and sometimes not, by bringing up another point that in some ways invalidates what the other is saying. There, Sal calls Amber’s suit pajamas as an analogy, Amber undermines it by snidely pointing out its a workman’s uniform, But go off.
In other words, Amber isn’t giving Sal permission to continue with her comment, or indicating openness, but rather sarcastically telling her to keep making a fool of herself if she wants
It’s a slightly odd usage, especially because “but go off I guess” is the more common use of the term, but it’s pretty common among a lot of internet and, to a slightly lesser degree, irl circles
To clarify “but go off I guess” is more common when it’s being used sarcastically, like Amber is using it here. When it’s being used seriously, just “go off” is common.
Meh, that just means I would have had to get anxious about the answer and wait for it for 24 hours one day earlier. Doesn’t solve the problem, just brings it forward by one day. 😛
At the sixty thousand dollar level, the entire story from beginning to end is instantly broadcast into your brain, in full detail, including the parts that have not yet been written. Nobody has survived to purchase it twice.
I’m kind of sad that Sal thinks she’s doomed to always be doing big, dramatic stuff. Life shouldn’t work that way, right? But, given what she’s been through for so much of her life, I can’t really fault her for thinking that either. At any rate, huuuuge props to her for resolving to try to make her ‘big things’ positive instead of negative.
And, y’know, for trying to make peace with Amber, but that kinda goes without saying.
Amber doesn’t need to hear an apology as much as she needs to hear that she’s forgiven, that she’s not a monster, that things can be fixed and worked out.
If Sal were ASKING for forgiveness, it would make sense to expect her to render any apologies still owed first.
However, Amber lost any right to expect an apology multiple times over whatat with the stabbing and the stalking. On top of that, Sal is OFFERING forgiveness, not asking for it, and she never got any apology either.
She’s extending an olive branch to someone who has repeatedly wronged her and only moments ago threatened her life. “Oh but she could be more repentant about that one thing she did many years ago” is an incredibly petty thing to complain about
Agreed. I don’t think it’s so much that she needs to be more repentant, but just that an apology to Ethan doesn’t cover Amber and while Amber has no right to expect one, if Sal actually wants to make peace, it might work better.
Of course, she has no need to make peace if she doesn’t want to.
You keep bringing up that she could do more in response to people specifically noting that she should not be expected to, and saying shit like “if Sal actually wants to make peace…”, and it really gives the impression that you do actually feel Sal isn’t repentant enough.
Sure. Giving an apology that is not owed might make Amber more likely to listen. Debasing herself completely and groveling on the floor for Amber’s forgiveness might do that as well.
Apologizing to someone for an old wrong when that person has repeatedly wronged her and never apologized for any of it would be debasing herself. Not as much as groveling, but complaining that Sal isn’t sacrificing enough of her dignity here is gross.
Sal is already going above and beyond by extending an olive branch here. The fact that she’s not willing to do EVERYTHING she possibly can to convince Amber to accept it does not detract from the generosity of that in the least. She’s got every right to hold on to her god damn pride here.
I agree with this a lot. Sal is doing a lot here, especially when she notes that she’s really not very good at just talking things out, but she’s trying. She has absolutely 0 obligation to make things right with Amber and would well be within her rights to tell her to fuck off and stay away from her. But she wants to make peace and is trying.
And I also find it incredibly gross that there is so much pressure on Sal having to be the one to repent and be the one to facilitate this reconciliation while she’s still the only one to acknowledge that she’s wronged the other one and is trying to make amends, and that every little bit of her attempt at making peace is being scrutinized because it’s just not good enough. No, that’s not the words that’s being said, but that’s the impression that’s being given off, like you noted with the phrase “if Sal actually wants to repent”.
It’s like I was noting with my earlier comment about the white privilege context being discussed- it’s absolutely flooring how much responsibility is being put on Sal’s shoulders to make things right and to do so perfectly, while there is so little for Amber.
Sal also said it in front of Ethan, who also already knew: I’d be amused if it became a running thing where Sal continues to mention that Amber is AG, because she’s whatever on the whole “secret identity” thing, and the people who hear her say it continue to be people who already know, because it turns out that’s a lot of people.
Oh that would be fun. And then eventually ‘you know I’m wanted by the police right? We uh, should probably keep this quiet.’
‘Well I’m not outin’ ya to MARY.’
I think everything Amber did to her after that kinda cancels her right to that apology out. Amber took her pound of flesh I don’t really see why she should get an apology on top of it. Hell, she doesn’t even deserve this forgiveness what with the fact that she’s expressed no real remorse for any of it.
Her entire Amazi-Girl schtick is a failed and misguided attempt to channel her immense remorse for her self-perceived monstrous nature into a way that directs her violence “away from good people.”
You’ll note the part where I said failed attempt above, thanks. At no point have I argued Amber is doing the right thing or is justified in her behavior. All I’m saying is that you claim she has no remorse and she has clearly shown otherwise.
“Not a fair [fight], you haven’t” is Amber saying that it was unfair when she stabbed Sal. That’s remorse for her actions. I suppose you’ll argue it’s not meaningful, but we’ll have to disagree on that.
All right, I get it. Amber will always be in the wrong, and nothing she does ever has any justification or generosity behind it. Heaven forbid anyone get anything out of this story other than your interpretation.
I have yet to see an actual real justification for Amber’s actions. An explanation is not a justification. A justification shows why an action was the right and reasonable thing to do. None of the things I take issue with in her behaviour are right or reasonable.
I said justification when I should have said explanation. I don’t think Amber’s justified. I think she’s a barely held together mess of a person who clearly loathes herself and is constantly beating herself up with guilt over her actions, including those toward Sal.
And again, we’re back to going nowhere productive. Amber changed her behavior toward Sal in both personas immediately upon realizing that Sal is more than just a flat comic antagonist, and while her efforts are obviously hampered by the fact that she seems two steps away from a total break with reality at any given moment, she’s tried to be better. Her efforts and her issues make a difference to me. Clearly, you don’t feel the same way. That’s fine.
I also disagree that Amazi-Girl was ever an expression of remorse, or at least fully. AG existed to protect Amber, at her very core, and to fight the battles that Amber couldn’t. That’s… literally why she stalked Sal. To beat her up, for Amber. If AG was supposed to express remorse and redirect violence away from “good people”, shouldn’t there have been more focus on the good people that AG saved? But except for main characters Danny and Dorothy, there is more focus on AG fighting the bad guys- or stalking and harassing Sal.
Now, Amazi-Girl has expressed remorse for what she’s done to Sal, but that’s not quite the same thing as her entire existence being an expression of remorse. She’s a defense system.
Amazi-Girl didn’t start as remorse for Amber’s actions toward Sal. She started as a safe way for Amber to direct her aggression and rage, and when Amber still only thought of Sal as a monster from her past trauma, she directed those feelings toward her. Then, when Amber realized that Sal was not actually her Joe Chill, she redirected that anger again toward actual bad guys.
Amazi-Girl was never about helping ‘good people,’ really, she was about Amber making sure her violent urges only went toward people who deserved it. A group she realized Sal wasn’t part of. Amber views, or at least did view, Amazi-Girl as a Dexter-esque outlet to make sure that one monster was only hurting other monsters.
I wasn’t saying AG was an expression of remorse for what she did to Sal, though I can see why you thought that. I just don’t think AG is an expression of remorse for Amber’s anger/violence in general. She’s an outlet for Amber’s anger, that’s not the same thing. AG makes sure that they’re fighting acceptable targets, in the name of “justice”, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s because she felt remorse over that one act of violence she did to a person that was no longer a threat. If anything, Amazi-Girl is an expression of guilt, not remorse. Guilt from Amber for losing control and lashing out physically, not really guilt about hurting people. Amazi-Girl is there to prove that they can stay in control… while hurting people.
It’s not just “Never again” will Amber hurt someone, it’s “Never again” will Amber lose control of herself. That’s the main thing here.
I don’t think she’s forgiving her because like…she feels she’s the one who was wrong, she’s forgiving her because she realizes that is what’s haunting amber.
Oh Sal this could go one of two ways, the way you hope it’ll go or the woy of more drama (I like drama)
We’re always wise after the event but maybe starting with something like “I’m sorry I held a knife to your friends throat and scared the utter bejeesus out you” might have been a better strategy because its sounding like Sal thinks this is all on Amber and that she, Sal, is completely blameless in all of this and I’m gonna hazard a guess and suggest that Amber might think otherwise
Ah well only another 21 hours or so to see what happens
When I read through the comments for the first time, yours was the last, and now I firmly wish this could be the case for everyone who reads these comments :3
On a personal journey level, I love this moment in Sal’s. I think it’s really powerful to look things over, to go, “This isn’t okay, but they are trying.
I don’t have to let them do a thing again, but I also don’t have to carry the fear and the anger and the pain with me anymore.” To look things over as clearly as you can and to put your faith in people again. Even if this isn’t something Amber needs, this is something *Sal* does, and I think it’s really important that she gets it. Sometimes granting forgiveness is done for another person, but so often it’s also for yourself.
What a strong harnessing of her own go big or go home energy. In this moment, I’m really happy for and proud of Sal.
That said, I’d really like this acknowledgment and understanding of one another as people to go both ways and I’m bracing to not get it, because while Sal is there, is climbing that mountain of her own personal journey and making pretty good time, it feels like Amber hasn’t even climbed out of her own personal pit of doom, and I feel like the red screen bears that up. That said, as much as I’m rooting for everyone in this comic, in most ways, I don’t care, because for me, this isn’t about Amber. However Amber reacts, this moment for me is about Sal. This is about Sal finding and reaching for hope again. Throughout this entire arc, she’s been trying (and sometimes failing) to open up, to connect. And however this turns out, this is another powerful symbol of her willingness to keep trying, to make those big gestures to go with the smaller ones. I don’t know, it’s just a really good Sal moment, and I’m still feeling a lot.
Well, Amber looks like she’s got a tear coming out of her eye in that last panel. Oh dear.
It’s only just struck me (even though Sal basically says it in the first panel) how this is exactly what Amber needs, and why. Everyone else who’s tried to help her has gone for the “You’re not a monster” route. Ethan’s gone for “We were young!”, her mother’s just insisted she isn’t, anyone who knows she’s the rapist-stabber has been really proud of her, Ruth promised her that she wasn’t doomed to become her father, and so on.
Sal is now the only person trying to help who has accepted that Amber did something grievously wrong. She may not be saying “Yep, you’re a monster”, but she is not entirely denying Amber’s self-image. You can’t be forgiven unless there actually is something there to forgive.
The difference is that Walky just enabled her, in a sense, because he was looking for an excuse to feel bad about himself as well. Here Sal is saying “Maybe you did do a terrible thing, and that might even make you a bad person, but hey, look at that, it’s possible to get over it.” Describing herself as doing “big things” too, and then moving in the opposite direction to anger, she’s suggesting that Amber can do so too — but she’s not lecturing it.
This is why I think commenters saying she should have opened with “I’m sorry” or that she should have continued with “I hope you can forgive me too” are wrong. If Amber hears “I’m sorry,” she’s going to hear “You may not have been entirely wrong to do what you did, because I did something bad too and probably deserved it,” which is no different from people cheering her on for stabbing Ryan. (In Amber’s twisted little mind, of course.) If Sal says “I hope you can forgive me too,” then Sal’s forgiveness becomes meaningless because it’s just a step in manipulating Amber into forgiving her — plus, Amber will go into “I’m a monster, so I’m incapable of doing something that decent” mode.
If this is going to work, Sal can’t bring in her side of things. She’s focusing on the one, big thing, and leaving the context out — when the context is what everyone else insists on talking about.
You stabbed me. I forgive you.
That’s it. It doesn’t matter that you did it because you were traumatized. It doesn’t matter that your dad pushed it to it. It doesn’t matter you were thirteen. It doesn’t matter that I was the reason you were traumatized. It doesn’t matter that I was trying to rob the store for a good cause. The stabbing happened. And I, the only one who can, forgive you for it.
TL;DR — I’m not saying this is going to work, but it’s the only way it could.
No, I really think this is because Amber does not believe that she deserves forgiveness; being offered forgiveness is therefore a bad thing for her. She’s about to trigger though in what way remains to be seen.
Well… As people have pointed out, the last panel being red is a bit worrisome, but either way, I am very, very proud of Sal for being able to take the first step towards reconciliation here as she has done. There’s a lot, a LOT, of people in the world who would never, ever forgive someone who has wounded them.
Sal atoned. Sal atoned hard. Sal lost years of her life, Sal was crippled by Amber, Sal made amends with Ethan, Sal was harassed by Amber, Sal has forgiven Amber for everything she put her through. Sal has more than paid her pound of flesh for her actions by this point.
I agree, and add that I am equally unsure if she will take it well that she is forgivABLE.
(And I suspect that that’s a major reason why Sal chose to lead with forgiveness here.)
I’m sure Amber, famed mentally healthy person, we’ll take this well and not attack Sal for offering forgiveness instead of an apology.
I mean, I’ll be pleased as punch if I’m wrong tho, this has gone on well beyond long enough.
The Good News is i think Amber can do this ( or Amazigirl will intervene ) .
The bad news is … If Amber does, it will break her a psyche a second time.
Ive suspected there was a third emerging personality ( as soon we got a confirm it w as DID.). Its the Blaine like Rage junkie who is present with red panels.
She took over from Agirl attacking Blaine, and taking out Ryan from Amber.
Agirl thinks this is Amber.
This personality is the “monster created at a Parking Lot ”
If Amber and Agirl see eye to Eye on Sal they can reconcile, but that will separate Amber from the Monster.
(* without missing time , Ambers symptoms could be described as BPD Borderline with Dissasociative symptoms )
This doesn’t seem to follow. Amber and AG always had a strict separation that they themselves admit and enforce (see, for example, Amber’s strict assertion that Danny wasn’t dating her but AG after Joyce’s party). Amber has, so far, owned all her red panels.
This is a huge step for Sal and I’m proud of her for the line of thinking that got her to this point, and for having the resolve to be there in the first place. Whether this is good for Amber remains to be seen but it is great for Sal and her possible sense of peace.
That being said, with discussions about racial tints over the past couple of weeks, I have to say it’s been really disheartening to see the way so many people here continue to phrase all their characterization of Sal with this extra layer of malice or making the fight out to be some one-sided thing on her part. I know some of my comments have been very #TeamSal biased but I seriously wonder about some of this discourse that just so happens to paint the black girl as this violent criminal who owes the innocent white girl so many apologies. I just wanted to get that off my chest
take the bleeding charity, take the bleeding charity…
Buuut I have a sinking feeling that the first panel in the next strip will be the equivalent of that bit in a movie where the soft violin music takes a dissonant downturn.
Uuuh-oooh… In doing the mature responsible thing, Sal has just broken Amber’s entire flawed, fractured pity narrative that her entire DID fueled psyche is built on. How can Amazi-Girl have a tragic superhero narrative if her so-called archnemesis no longer wishes to play the part and is making amends to put their equivalent to the Death of Uncle Ben or Crime Alley behind them?
Damn you Willis for giving us exactly what I wanted in worst way possible. I salute you, you magnificent heart-wrencher.
One would Think that but then again it would be insane for her to feel regret for stabing Ryan and not feel bad about Sal when she’s knows she’s not a bad person like the other.
Amber regards herself as garbage, with this encounter as the defining moment, and stabbing Ryan as a reprise that proves she’s no better than her father. That’s not the attitude of someone who thinks their choices were the best ones.
Oh, I’m quite sure she does. The problem is likely to be far worse: She doesn’t believe she’s worthy of forgiveness and will respond to this olive branch with hostility to ‘prove’ she isn’t.
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“For… give? What language is that 🤷♀️”
“It’s the language of FEELS”
“Fehlz… sounds poisonous.”
“She’s extending her wounded hand towards me – some kind of obscure martial arts move, like that stork kick from the original Karate Kid?”
She’s clearly feigning weakness by calling attention to her injury. I must quickly flip this chair out from under me while tumbling backward, and use it to block the attack. Then, I’ll jump out the window, flip off a tree branch, run across some rooftops, leap onto a truck, and ride away on top of it while giving a double middle-finger. Yeah, that should be good. I mean, that’s how I made my last friend, right?
Whew, glad I got that sorted. Okay, here goes!
Why would you flip off a tree branch? What did that tree branch ever do to you?
Always lumbering about, staring at me with that unchanging wooden expression.. surely, that gives you a kindling of an idea of what I suffered?
Here, I’ve kept extensive logs, you should take a look. Anyway, frankly, I was board of it, and I wanted to let it know, so I decided to try branching out into new methods of interaction. I couldn’t quite put a finger on how I wanted to handle things, but then I came up with this super handy approach. Boom, bam, another one bites the sawdust. It may seem like I’m palming all the credit, but I really do think only I could have grasped the situation quite as firmly, not to mention being willing to knuckle down to do what needed to be done. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough, so I won’t stick around any longer; I’ll leaves you to think of an appropriately sappy response.
+1 internets
Sal can’t forgive Amber. You can’t forgive garbage.
Uh-oh
Honestly, I think that was well-played. Sal is demonstrating precisely what she’s forgiving Amber for, which prevents Amber from minimizing what she’d done, while opening the door for Amber to forgive her in turn.
Sure. I think Well_Played is concerned about the redness of the final panel. I am as well.
AmbOS hit an unhandled exception error, and has very nearly gone into kernel panic.
I am anticipating some sort of, “You forgive me?” reaction.
Anticipating, but going fervently for a different outcome
Hoping* gosh darnit
The background of the last panel is red, but the characters are colored in the strip’s normal palette and not tinted red. Emergence/freeing from past trauma, perhaps?
I think the tinting just indicates flashback.
In the panel where Amber curb-stomps Blaine, there’s a red background but no tinting. (I think. The scene is in the middle of a rainstorm.)
Same when Ryan confronts Amber. Red panels, no tinting.
I have no idea what Dumbing of Age is even going to be about if Amber manages to finally put her past with Sal behind her
Solid month of Dino Facts With Dina (and Becky, and new best friend Sal.) Followed by Carla’s pranking schematics.
Also Joyce I guess. And Walky’s drama. Maybe some more Billie.
So you’re saying it will be amazing.
I vote for Sweet Dino Facts.
I’m ok with this, especially if it has Dina talking about dinosaurs.
Talking about, teaching about, theorizing the ill-advised DNA reconstruction of
…maybe not the last one (?)
Walky’s still failing math, Joyce is still troubled six ways from Sunday, Joe’s still learning to be a likable human being, Dina is still adorable….
Also, just because they’re forgiving each other doesn’t mean Amber’s problems are solved. Anxiety, PTSD, DID, and anger issues just don’t work that way, and forgiveness can be a long and hard process by itself, never mind when both parties caused permanent damage to each other.
I think even if Amber accepts this there’s still a decent chance being surprised by Sal will set off her fear reflexes for some time. And AG hasn’t been party to any of this, which will at MINIMUM confuse the shit out of her. (That one is easily another eight years of our time before we see anything resembling a resolution – even if Amber checked herself into a hospital in the next strip she’ll probably still be trying to manage things for the rest of the comic. I mean Ruth hasn’t even seen real effects from her antidepressants yet.) Also Blaine’s still around.
YEP. I’m waiting on AG’s reaction here. A big part of AG’s identity is wrapped in the need to protect people from Amber’s rage. And, like, that’s still a problem, but it’s still got to be some sort of step forward if she makes nice with Sal.
As much as Amber likes to play pretend, her and AG are the same person. So maybe she’ll need to get over her need to pretend they’re not sharing the same brain and experiencing the same things.
Yeah, that’s absolutely not how DID works.
She’s “pretended” that even when there was nobody in the room to pretend for, but go off
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/douche/
So what you’re saying is after this hard earned, heart warming page that shows the fruits of eight years of character development of these two characters they’ll both immediately backslide into hating each other! Amber’s gonna slap Sal’s hand, chairs will be thrown and round 2 starts!
That is not what I said at all. What I said is that forgiving people can be a long hard process even when both parties agree they want it, and the fact they both caused permanent damage to each other and are struggling with trauma related to each other probably wouldn’t help. For instance, they can generally have made nice and Amber can still have flashbacks when Sal surprises her, or Sal can still feel resentful days her hand is giving her trouble. It’s not necessarily rational, but neither are people all the time.
And even if they both forgive each other, I’m not entirely certain ‘friends’ was what they’d want under any circumstances but what they have here. They can make peace, make nice for Walky, and never get along. They can do that and live in the same hall. I’m not sure they can do both at once while also Sal fights crime with Amber’s alterego, but that’s another story.
I really don’t know where that storyline is going to go. I don’t think this is going to be that story that goes ‘violence is bad!!! Even when you’re stopping rapists from enacting further violence!’ (at least, I hope not – I respect Willis enough to think that’s not where he’s going with this) but at the same time, that’s all about to get more complicated.
I’m hoping it leans towards ‘punch a rapist when you have to, but OUTSMART a rapist if you can first and have a good support system in play so punching rapists isn’t your only outlet for Emotions.’ Still leaves the door open for big action sequences while also acknowledging there are options that aren’t the line AG and Sal both gave about anger needing to be let out away from good people. (I mean yes, but have you considered roller derby?)
And my comment was more ‘they may make peace, but progress doesn’t mean InstaFriends and even as the narrative pushes them together there’ll be bumps.’
My hope is that the dude bros get reported, reprimanded, or even expelled for generally causing mayhem on campus. They are the same guys that bullied Danny day one. And hopefully the administration will do the responsible thing and expell Ryan for being a rapist what with all these girls that have come out against him. Even hooded skeptic guy couldn’t believe they’re all lying! But that sounds like wishful thinking right now. I’m all for beating up rapists but that’s not a viable long term solution.
@ Regalli – Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for. A) Emotional support (and therapy for Amber, please, I will BEG), B) Fight smart. Look for ways to destroy them and try to pick times when it won’t blow up on you and your friends if it gets physical, and C) If all else fails, make them bleed.
@ Kris – When more legit channels can’t (or won’t) handle things or when you have very valid reasons to hesitate to involve them (like Sal being black with a record and not wanting to volunteer to assaulting guys) I think it can be the only way for there to be ANY consequences (especially when combined with a social media campaign that won’t be shut up). If it’s possible, I’d be down for them being expelled. And run out of polite society.
“Make nice for Walky?!” I’m sorry but you lost me. That idiot doesn’t even know what’s happened yet and I doubt he’d do the same for Sal. I don’t even give him credit enough to sympathize with Sal when/if he finds out the whole story. Make peace for themselves sure, but Walky can go suck on week old mcnuggets!
Sal and Amber both care about him though (complicated as his and Sal’s relationship is), so they probably would take his feelings into consideration.
I have a little hope Walky is trying to actively repair and rebuild his relationship with Sal, and that means ‘don’t get estranged if Sal says it’s me or the girl you’ve dated less than two days’. And I think Sal’s going to try and Not have to do that.)
Honestly, Sal shouldn’t even have to ask. “Maybe don’t date the girl who stabbed and harassed your sister” seems like something that you should just kinda know is a good move on your own.
That requires him to know about that first.
Well yeah, I’m withholding judgement until he actually knows but if he continues to date Amber after finding out it’s certainly not going to help my view of him as a shitty brother.
Sal might be okay with it, but if he doesn’t even have any misgivings, yeah, that’s gonna be fucked up.
Just off the top of my head, I’m dying to know how Joyce’s parents are doing, see story development for Jocelyn, some Joe, more Carla, more Leslie, more Dina, and more Becky&Dina.
The next six months of strips we won’t see either Walky nor Amber.
And then Willis will post the longest Slipshine he has everdrawn.
Ninja Rick killing spiders
AS IT WAS FORETOLD
I’m still holding out to meet Jordan, and Joyce is an inexhaustible supply of material
I’m still waiting for Jocelyne to come out to Joyce. She hinted at it a couple books back, saying they should talk. Also I want to find out what happened to Jordan.
The last couple of books have been other characters, I vote we turn back to the Browns.
More naked Ethan! The Great Faz finally cops a feel and runs away crying for Billie. Lots to come yet…
I want to know how the Joyce-Jacob-Raidah-Sarah-Joe situation will unfold!
Also I’m betting Clint is gonna be the final antagonist
Why is that last panel red
My guess is because it’s related to Amber’s PTSD.
*Han Solo voice* I have a bad feeling about this…
Because this is technically an act of violence!…..Or like traumatic for Amber or something. Probably more the second one.
Or, and here me out here……Sal kicked Amber in the shins while she offered that handshake.
It feels me with apprehension… Ugh I really really really do not want Sal to get hurt here, she is trusting Amber SO much
You don’t have to be a Patreon subscriber to guess that Amber’s about to blow up in rage. “YOU forgive ME?! You BONGO!”
I’m expecting something like that, but hoping for a positive reaction.
I’m bracing for that, since both of them are missing context. Sal doesn’t know how badly Amber got messed up by Blaine, she just knows Amber got scared and enraged after she took Ethan hostage. Amber doesn’t know Sal’s motivation or regret over what happened, she just knows she’s a violent criminal who hurt her best friend.
That would require both of them to open up more, and honestly I’m not sure if Amber’s ready for that. She hasn’t had an epiphany like Sal did a few strips back. I don’t think she’s ready to stop projecting her demons on Sal yet anyway.
Its Ambers ptsd. I am hoping its so she can overcome it.
Amber grabs the outstretched hand and throws Sal headfirst into the wall. “Oops, sorry! Reflex! …Sal? Sal?”
Cue the coma storyline.
The sun just went nova.
However Amber responds, I’m proud of Sal here.
Same!!!!!
It takes a lot. *Sheds a happy tear.*
You’re not crying, I’m cry…. Wait! How does that meme go again? Crap. Offers you an apology and a kleenex brand tissue.
I was just coming here to say that. While I definitely feel for Amber too, I can’t imagine having the courage and kindness to do what Sal’s doing here if I’d been in her shoes. She just gained a lot of points in my mind, and I already liked Sal a lot.
Honestly. She’s doing so well here, and she’s being so CALM even in the face of Amber’s threats. She’s grown so much.
I see more and more that Sal is amazing for doing this while Amber…..Amber seems like she’s lost in her own hell and can’t seem to leave it or want to, she seems content in it.
This will only go either good or bad.
You’ve got the entire spectrum of possibilities covered, yes.
Not really though: either good or bad, nothing in the middle.
If we’re going with spectrum instead of binary, also nothing great and nothing awful.
And now I’m wondering if the statistical distribution for this is normal, bimodal, or something else.
If it’s: either “good” or “bad”, the options are discrete and therefore the set “how will it go” will have a discrete number of possibilities, which puts it in a binary.
If we’re talking about the whole spectrum of possibilities, I’d say it’s a normal distribution where most things are usually kind of okayish, with Std Deviations landing you in “good” or “bad”, with possibilities among “absolutely horrendous” and “absolutely wonderful”.
However my personal reading of the situation is that it’s a bimodal, with peaks in “bad” and “good”, with a bit more probability on the “bad”, but because it’s Willis, non-zero chances for other scenarios.
This will go either bad or worse. Or maybe worst.
Well, damn. I’ve said Sal doesn’t have to but I am so glad she’s trying.
*plays The Travelling Wilburys’ “The End of the Line” on the hacked Muzak*
The empty rocking chair always gets me.
There are a couple more empty chairs these days…
And that’s the moral of this story! Only took eight years.
This was a tiring arc… now shake hands, Amber, please?
Not bad-tiring. Emotionally tiring. Super well-written.
“Ah forgive you for seducen’ me, then betrayen’ me with my brother. Besides, ah guess we’re both yer type.”
AHHHHH THAT RUDDY BACKGROUND COLOR OF THE LAST PANEL.
This must be so stressful for Sal—she never exposes her hand under any circumstances, and now she’s exposing it to the person who caused her the trauma to begin with. I really hope Amber returns the sentiment.
Seriously, what a gesture! What symbolism!! Excellent work. If it doesn’t go well I will be sad.
God, I love Sal so much. As a character and as a person. Okay carry on.
the mike gravatar just makes my sentiment look wrong I don’t want this take it back
Try clearing out your cookies, and comment again. I think it will randomize another avatar. I had a Joyce picture for the longest time, did that, and now I’ve got “Cool Sal”.
You can also try fiddling with the capitalizations on your email address.
The gravatar-assigning algorithm is based on your email address. It takes case into account, so you can change your gravatar by changing one or more letters from upper case to lower case or vice versa.
You can’t determine your gravatar by this method, but you can play gravatar roulette until you get one like.
Periodically, Willis updates the gravatar pics, which does force a one-time randomization, which is probably how you got Cool Sal.
Or, after cleaning out the cookies, you put the email address back in with different capitalization or something.
Personally, I’ve always found it worth the time to find an avatar you like, anywhere online.
I agree.
Sal is officially my favorite character. I love her so much. So proud. Go uou. Ugggghhhhhhhh
“Hubba hubba WHA?”
Take your pick:
[Professor Farnsworth “Eeuhwaaa?”]
[Tim Allen confusion grunt]
doggy doggy what now!?
What happened then? Well, in Read Hall, they say,
Amber O’Malley’s heart grew three sizes that day.
It exploded from her chest. There was blood everywhere.
Just as Sal planned!
Brings new meaning to the phrase, “kill them with kindness.”
Not making this up: my brother calls his glock “kindness” for exactly this reason.
(He hasn’t actually fired it at a person, AFAIK.)
That’s why the panel is red! Everything is drenched in her blood
I might have lead with an apology, and then transitioned to the forgiveness.
Nah, Sal’s got her number. That is to say, she knows that Amber is MOST affected by her OWN actions, and is plagued with guilt. She’s rather insightful, and empathetic, especially to push past exhaustion and risk her neck like this.
Besides knowing her she would have probably been offended by the apology. Sounds weird but that’s sort of how it is.
She could take this badly too though. And very likely would have before now.
OTOH, maybe this way can slip through while the “You can’t forgive me, I’m a monster” and the “You can’t forgive me, you’re a monster” sides of her brain are fighting over how to reject it.
What I mean to say is, though Sal should (at some point) extend an apology to Amber AS WELL AS Ethan (who took it all quite well), the first priority is, as it should be, to address Amber’s main baggage if either of them expect to heal. That baggage is her guilt complex (among other things).
Remember also, Amber thinks of herself as a garbage person and a monster. Being told she’s been forgiven for her actions might have a even more powerful effect than an apology
I think it’s better to give first and then ask for requital, rather than to ask first and then give. An apology may be interpreted as a request for forgiveness.
If I threatened to kill someone’s best friend and held a lethal weapon to their neck I would feel presumptuous leading with an apology even if the retaliation was unjustified and life altering.
Wouldn’t you feel even more presumptuous offering forgiveness to them?
The problem with this approach is that it doesn’t acknowledge Sal doing anything wrong and even in offering forgiveness she’s implicitly placing the blame on Amber.
Don’t get me wrong, this is a big step for Sal. It means a lot that she can do this. It just might not be the best way to make peace here.
If you’re saying Amber stabbing Sal was in any way, shape, or form justifiable, we’ve got a problem.
Sal may never regain full use of that hand. You’re motherfucking right Amber hurt Sal terribly and remuneration is owed.
I’m not.
If you’re saying that because of the stabbing Sal is perfect and has never done anything wrong, we also have a problem.
Sal did not come in here demanding remuneration, whether or not any is owed. If she had, I’d be a lot less happy with her, since even if it’s what’s owed her, that would have been likely to just start the fight back up again.
She’s here to make peace, if I’m reading her right. If she actually wants to do that, then acknowledging her own faults might be a good step, even if they’re much less than Amber’s.
Sorry I mispoke. I meant it was presumptuous to start with forgiveness, rather than an apology.
Amber forfeit any right to an apology for the robbery when she stabbed, stalked, and harassed Sal in retaliation for it. When your retribution so vastly exceeds the scope of the original wrong you don’t get an apology you just hope they’re less vengeful than you.
So, you think Sal shouldn’t be offering forgiveness here?
I am tired of people who are part of minority groups (be they fictional or real) being expected to grant forgiveness to people in majority groups who harm them especially when those people have made no effort to earn that forgiveness.
I am tired of media pretending absolving someone who harmed you is something you do for yourself rather than for their benefit because absolving them and letting go of your resentment towards them and moving on are not mutually inclusive.
Yeah. Like, on a character level, it’s development for Sal resolving to put her tendency to do ‘big things’ to more positive use, and it’s her ending a cycle of lashing out and escalating.
Unfortunately, it exists in a world where marginalized characters routinely forgive characters who wrong them, often without the other person actually being sorry or justice being done, which does sour the scene.
Yeah, Sal absolutely does not owe Amber a thing. Sal would be within reason to demand Amber apologize to her, or just tell her they should just keep hating each other but never interact again
Looks like Sal’s pinky might be jacked up. I wonder if that’s from the stabbing?
It would make sense, but I’m unsure because I feel like it would’ve been visible before (even through her glove).
One of my pinky’s is pretty jacked from a football incident. So much horror.
It will never be able to be set right again but I have some particularly firm gloves I wear which hold it pretty much where it is supposed to be. Sal might use the same kind.
Sal’s pinky might be jacked up, but some people’s pinkies are just like that! It’s a genetic thing in the same vein as hitchhiker’s thumb.
Mine is just like that on both sides XD
I honestly don’t know what it must take for an 18 year old who’s been through as much shit as Sal to forgive the person whom she can legitimately hold responsible for some of said shit before that person has even apologized.
Sal deserves all good things and I fervently hope she gets them.
You sometimes have to forgive people who haven’t yet offered an apology, or it’s never going to happen.
signed, someone with a lot of baggage from a mom who is quite literally unable to understand what she’s done to her family through mental health, addiction, and plain selfishness.
Yeah, I know, and I know forgiveness is as much for the healing of the forgiver as the forgiven. But Sal is young, and is carrying so much of her own trauma and baggage that I’m frankly in awe that she can summon this kind of empathy.
Compassion’s one of Sal’s bigger characteristics. It’s (partially) where that sense of justice comes from and that’s what fuels a good deal of her rage.
Word.
Those are the good apologies, the ones that help you start healing. Holding out for an apology is not good for you.
Yes! All of this!
If we keep addressing and potentially resolving plot threads as old as the comic itself at this rate, DoA will turn into El Goonish Shive! Which I wouldn’t complain about, we’re overdue for maybe the fifth or sixth genderfluid character ever.
I’m very glad. I hope Amber can forgive Sal, too. I do hope the last panel being red isn’t going to be her being mad Sal isn’t saying sorry, too, since I don’t think Sal is operating under the premise she didn’t fuck up, too, since of course she apologized to Ethan. I really just want the both of them to be able to put this all behind them.
They’ve both got a lot of stuff to work through without adding each other to that list, after all. Sal still has the problem of Marcie and Malaya, for instance, and Amber’s got to handle whenever Dorothy finds out about her and Walky, and the both of them are going to have the problem of, Walky WILL find out about this fight.
I can’t imagine he’s going to be thrilled about that.
Red background huh. This can go in a few directions.
Honestly, it’s just kinda, mmf. This is good character development for Sal. I’m glad she took that moment to reach out, even if its not with the best method overall, but good for her seeking a mutual agreement. Judging by the Red there’s a distinct possibility Amber might lash out at being forgiven by a person she sees as a monster, whatever, she might not be terrible who knows.
That all said, point of order, i do feel a teensy bit ingratiated by this whole scenario, specifically because of all the Other Shit Amber’s been pulling recently, ie the harassment and the stalking and the general airs of misdirection that’s led them to this, and the fact that that in particular really hasn’t been resolved. And it might. And maybe this moment isn’t meant to address them because they’ll be addressed later, or because that’s not thematically as important as the Incident so many years ago, or because it’s just more poignant Sal take this situation where she really does have good reason to be angry and righteous and chooses forgiveness instead. Maybe. But the lack of real action, real reparations, means i’m just watching once again a person of color forgive the transgressions of the white person, and not because it’s earned, but because they came to understand them. I don’t much care for that, for Amber’s complicity in her own bullshit.
But, compared to my anger of the last few strips of this arc, I’m largely just nonplussed. Because that’s just one vector of a fairly complex scenario right now, and I don’t want to miss the forest for the trees here.
To not be mistaken: I think Sal is really largely doing a good thing here and I am proud of it, and I’m open to see some genuine reparations in the future should they come up, there’s just something unavoidable about this specific narrative arc that sours it just a little.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. Given the discussions of white privilege over the last few days and the repeated pressure from several commenters for the WOC to have to take full responsibility when the white woman has yet to acknowledge that she’s done anything fucked up to the other party is… tired. But like you said, maybe they’ll address those other things later. Personally, I don’t think it would be right or good for Sal to just sweep it all under the rug because she learned of Amber’s circumstances. She’s still culpable for the shit she pulled, and should be held accountable.
But yes, Sal’s doing a really great thing, and it’s sure to be a part of her personal growth as well as Amber’s. It’s still very bittersweet, though.
Yeah, this is kind of bugging me too. If it weren’t for the larger media context, it might not bother me so much, but that context is there. I just hope Amber follows suit.
This is precisely my discomfort with the ethics of the situation too. I know forgiveness is powerful and it doesn’t make the forgiver the smaller person, but there’s something painful about people who have suffered (esp. when it’s a member of a minority) forgiving those they can hold responsible for that suffering. Especially when the latter doesn’t realize or won’t admit that they’ve done something wrong. We see this pattern in real life constantly (Charleston survivors forgiving Dylann Roof) and it only ever makes me uncomfortable. I really really hope Amber’s response is remorse and not something that completely misses the point.
I hope so. I really want this spiral to stop, and Amber clearly understands on some level how wrong what she did is – she wouldn’t think of herself as a monster otherwise – but she still needs to take those steps to ‘and also, that stalking thing was creepy as FUCK.’
I suspect, though, that Amber’s not going to realize the depths of her issues until they all come crashing down on her later. Still, the big one here for Sal is the stabbing, and Amber does feel guilt for that one. If we get that, I can live with what we have for now. (Along with maybe a panel in Walky and Amber’s conversation where Walky goes ‘so long as that’s your big secret!’ and an ominous beat panel.)
It’s important, though, that Sal realized her own responsibility, that her violence led to more violence. It might have been better if she’d said, “I forgive you. I hope, some day, you can forgive me.”
This comment just makes me want to lie down groan with annoyance for like an hour.
I only realized “mmf” was onomatopoetic (equivalent to “meh”) after I looked it up on Urban Dictionary… yeah that’s not the definition you intended at all…
I choose to ignore this information and go to bed
Yeah, I don’t like this development for those reasons. Like, I understand forgiveness as something you do for yourself rather than for the person who harmed you but generally that kind of forgiveness is a silent personal resolution to let that resentment go rather than an actual spoken acquittal to the person in question specifically because it’s not actually about them or their feelings. But I am so so so so tired of narratives where minorities have to be the bigger person to a person who has harmed them especially when that person has done nothing to earn forgiveness they just get it because “it’s the right thing to do” or “it’s good for you.” I was really hoping for better from this whole thing but I’m not really surprised because our society just loves that “turn the other cheek” shit but only when it applies to minorities getting mad about being mistreated.
Amber needs Sal’s forgiveness imo, I hope Amber agrees
The way I see it, Amber hates being forgiven for her ugly deeds in part because they make her worry she is becoming her father—which she is in turn terrified of because, ultimately, her father got her to stab Sal.
So this could go one of two ways. One is very good, and one is very bad.
I’d have been more impressed by the gesture if Sal hadn’t just almost choked her into unconsciousness. But better late than never I suppose.
I hope Amber takes it the right way and not go off on a “I don’t need your forgiveness” rant. -_-
I thought that Sal was going to apologize, for attacking Amber over the stabbing.
What I hope will happen: Amber accepts the hand, and the red background will go away.
What I suspect will happen: RED PANEL Amber screams “I don’t want or need your forgiveness!”, possibly while literally pushing Sal over.
Um.
Amber (anger turning into sobbing): “I want . . . I need you to punish me. I need you to end me.”
Sal realizes there’s more going on here than she thought.
My prediction is that Amber breaks down in tears, possibly after snapping at Sal for being too fucking decent.
I rarely see depictions of forgiveness that I like. The problem isn’t with forgiveness as a concept, but with the concept that forgiveness is, somehow, necessary or a requirement. Often times, they create a situation wherein the one who doesn’t forgive is the new bad-guy or must feel guilty for that.
It isn’t good to do that. Making it something you *have* to do actually takes away agency and, thus, takes away the ability to make that choice for oneself.
Here’s Sal taking a breath and making that choice, seemingly absent pressure or inducement to do so.
That is good. Thank you.
To be clear, however, this forgiveness will not solve any of Amber’s issues for her. Nothing’s that easy.
But, hopefully, if Amber can accept it, she can accept whatever amount of help Sal sees fit to give Amber with her own anger issues.
I’d argue there is pressure on Sal to be the bigger person because the plot requires it for this to be resolved. Sal has to be more mature and empathetic because Amber is allowed to be erratic/deluded/mentally ill.
One of the things about being mentally ill, I find, is that if you are you are, whether it is allowed or not.
“Redemption is a story. Redemption is not real.”
Excellent callback. Super appropriate gravatar.
Technically the quote was Rachel’s but close enough. Thanks for noticing!
Yeah, fuck Rachel. She doesn’t have to forgive Ruth, but that kind of “I’m gonna tear you down even as you try to build yourself up” bullshit is part of what led to this situation (Amber was at that meeting, remember?). Did anyone call her out on it? Because someone should.
Thanks for reminding me why I can’t stand Rachel
Forgiveness is a pretty paradoxical concept really. Like, when you forgive someone you are saying that what they did, perhaps even who they were, was bad–if it weren’t bad, you wouldn’t have to forgive it (and try telling someone you “forgive them” for something they’re proud of: they’ll tell you to piss off). But somehow, you’re still saying that the badness doesn’t matter, or that it isn’t who they are anymore, or just promising to try to work past it with them.
I dunno, forgiveness confuses me sometimes. There are people in my past who have done some horrible things to me: have I forgiven them? I don’t know. I’ve long moved past my anger towards them, but that feels like only part of what it would mean to forgive them.
I guess that’s what’s so great about this depiction to me. Sal isn’t just discarding her anger at Amber–no small feat itself, considering that both their angers had them fighting like 10 min earlier–isn’t just detaching and walking away. She’s reaching out to Amber, treating her fully as a human being and not as a monster or whatever else. I worry this won’t go down well though, since Amber thinks of *herself* as a monster.
It’s less saying that it doesn’t matter and more saying that they don’t owe you anything anymore. The language comes from language of debt.
And, yeah, with regards to some of the people did things to me in the past… there’s another bit of language from the language of debt that I choose to use. I write them off as bad debt.
It’s not to say that they’re necessarily bad people. It is to say that, if they called me out of the blue to say that they suddenly noticed that harassing and emotionally abusing a child isn’t a good thing to do and would I mind terribly taking away their bad feels about that, I wouldn’t. I don’t feel the need to forgive them *or* to go seeking revenge. Neither would I refuse forgiveness in all conditions, but it’s my choice.
This. I don’t know that I would be able to forgive like Sal here. But Sal seems to be making the choice of her own free will, having seemingly been satisfied that forgiveness is warranted, without being emotionally blackmailed into forgiving. That is better than 99% of depictions of forgiveness I have seen.
I don’t have the Patreon, but can someone just tell me if the next line is “YOU forgive ME?!?!” or something?
Nope. We’re all sworn to a strict no spoiler policy.
don’t ask for spoilers on my website or i’ll toss you into the spam folder
I want Spoilers for “Wilis and the faschy” .
Does he stay in all month long?
Cover one side with well placed Merkins?
Does he buzz the other side and say its ” Morty cosplay gone wrong “?
Trust me on this. I’ve played the patreon game on other webcomics. You’re exchanging one form of hell for another! It’s a nice high but the truth is the waiting never stops. You will always run out of pages! ö_ö
You got to play by the rules dude, either pay or wait like everyone else.
Considering the last panel is red?
Safe to assume this won’t turn out well
Well, it either is or it isn’t. Flip a coin, maybe you’ll get it right.
I’m pretty sure Amber is smart enough to build in potty ports which makes it objectively better than a romper
Would someone please remind me how to bring up the alt text when viewing this site on a mobile device? I won myself an RCA Cambio 12.2-inch tablet with a docking keyboard and I’m playing with that tonight.
Tap the blank space to the left or right side of the forward/back strip buttons
I’m o n a kindle.
I found they moved to the white ( pale blue ) rectangular space boxes to the right of “last” and to the left of “first”
@willis would love a button or marker. I spent 40 mins this month trying to fund them
Having processed the full import of this strip, I can now snicker at Sal’s dialogue in the first panel. “Ya got traumatized… so ya started wearin’ pajamas.”
“It’d be funny if it weren’t so pathetic. … Oh, what the heck. I’ll laugh anyway! HAA HA HA HA HA HA!”
Why does Amber say “go off” rather than “go on?” That’s strange. It’s a good sign in the last frame that Amber uncrosses her arms, thus dropping the defensive posture.
It’s a slang term. As in, ‘but go off, I guess’. Basically it’s a mockery of whatever was just said, akin to ‘but sure, whatever’.
It’s colloquial lingo. To go off indicates going off on a rant, usually emotions or not thought through. In a positive light it’s just to relieve tension in an outburst. There is, however, a specific context where you undermine a point someone’s making, sometimes justifiably and sometimes not, by bringing up another point that in some ways invalidates what the other is saying. There, Sal calls Amber’s suit pajamas as an analogy, Amber undermines it by snidely pointing out its a workman’s uniform, But go off.
In other words, Amber isn’t giving Sal permission to continue with her comment, or indicating openness, but rather sarcastically telling her to keep making a fool of herself if she wants
Huh. Never heard that before. Still seems strange.
It’s a slightly odd usage, especially because “but go off I guess” is the more common use of the term, but it’s pretty common among a lot of internet and, to a slightly lesser degree, irl circles
To clarify “but go off I guess” is more common when it’s being used sarcastically, like Amber is using it here. When it’s being used seriously, just “go off” is common.
new one to me too
Wow! I’m very impressed with Sal.
Oh no… why red panel… 😨
Seems like as good a place as any to remind you all Patreon is $5. 😉
Meh, that just means I would have had to get anxious about the answer and wait for it for 24 hours one day earlier. Doesn’t solve the problem, just brings it forward by one day. 😛
For which problem Willis should introduce the $10 “2 days early” Patreon level.
And if that doesn’t solve your problem, there’s always the $20 “3 days early” level.
You see where this is going.
At the sixty thousand dollar level, the entire story from beginning to end is instantly broadcast into your brain, in full detail, including the parts that have not yet been written. Nobody has survived to purchase it twice.
😊😉 Hehehe
I’m kind of sad that Sal thinks she’s doomed to always be doing big, dramatic stuff. Life shouldn’t work that way, right? But, given what she’s been through for so much of her life, I can’t really fault her for thinking that either. At any rate, huuuuge props to her for resolving to try to make her ‘big things’ positive instead of negative.
And, y’know, for trying to make peace with Amber, but that kinda goes without saying.
It’s a decent bit of self-awareness given they’re all doomed to be protagonists in a comic strip.
Blaine, Clint, Linda, Naomi, Ryan, and Leland beg to differ
I don’t know how Amber will respond but I’m proud of Sal being willing to forgive the person who stabbed her hand.
forgiveness is nice but shouldn’t she like apologize for the whole robbery in the first place
That’s probably the second step, and it would shock Amber less. It allows her to say “well, you still fucked me up”
Amber doesn’t need to hear an apology as much as she needs to hear that she’s forgiven, that she’s not a monster, that things can be fixed and worked out.
Yea she also needs to hear that this thing she did needs forgiven or else forgiveness feels like naivety.
She already apologized to Ethan.
Which is good for her and Ethan, but doesn’t really address anything between her and Amber.
If Sal were ASKING for forgiveness, it would make sense to expect her to render any apologies still owed first.
However, Amber lost any right to expect an apology multiple times over whatat with the stabbing and the stalking. On top of that, Sal is OFFERING forgiveness, not asking for it, and she never got any apology either.
She’s extending an olive branch to someone who has repeatedly wronged her and only moments ago threatened her life. “Oh but she could be more repentant about that one thing she did many years ago” is an incredibly petty thing to complain about
Agreed. I don’t think it’s so much that she needs to be more repentant, but just that an apology to Ethan doesn’t cover Amber and while Amber has no right to expect one, if Sal actually wants to make peace, it might work better.
Of course, she has no need to make peace if she doesn’t want to.
You keep bringing up that she could do more in response to people specifically noting that she should not be expected to, and saying shit like “if Sal actually wants to make peace…”, and it really gives the impression that you do actually feel Sal isn’t repentant enough.
Sure. Giving an apology that is not owed might make Amber more likely to listen. Debasing herself completely and groveling on the floor for Amber’s forgiveness might do that as well.
Apologizing to someone for an old wrong when that person has repeatedly wronged her and never apologized for any of it would be debasing herself. Not as much as groveling, but complaining that Sal isn’t sacrificing enough of her dignity here is gross.
Sal is already going above and beyond by extending an olive branch here. The fact that she’s not willing to do EVERYTHING she possibly can to convince Amber to accept it does not detract from the generosity of that in the least. She’s got every right to hold on to her god damn pride here.
I agree with this a lot. Sal is doing a lot here, especially when she notes that she’s really not very good at just talking things out, but she’s trying. She has absolutely 0 obligation to make things right with Amber and would well be within her rights to tell her to fuck off and stay away from her. But she wants to make peace and is trying.
And I also find it incredibly gross that there is so much pressure on Sal having to be the one to repent and be the one to facilitate this reconciliation while she’s still the only one to acknowledge that she’s wronged the other one and is trying to make amends, and that every little bit of her attempt at making peace is being scrutinized because it’s just not good enough. No, that’s not the words that’s being said, but that’s the impression that’s being given off, like you noted with the phrase “if Sal actually wants to repent”.
It’s like I was noting with my earlier comment about the white privilege context being discussed- it’s absolutely flooring how much responsibility is being put on Sal’s shoulders to make things right and to do so perfectly, while there is so little for Amber.
She just realized Amber feels guilty about what she did, so she figured this is more important right now.
Did Dina already know Amber was Amazi-Girl, or did Sal just accidentally out her?
She knew.
Dina’s used and hidden the grappling hook before and defended Amber because of her role in the Becky rescue, she knows.
Okay, actually went back and double-checked that, yeah.
Lucky break for Sal, though, because otherwise that would’ve been super awkward.
Sal also said it in front of Ethan, who also already knew: I’d be amused if it became a running thing where Sal continues to mention that Amber is AG, because she’s whatever on the whole “secret identity” thing, and the people who hear her say it continue to be people who already know, because it turns out that’s a lot of people.
Oh that would be fun. And then eventually ‘you know I’m wanted by the police right? We uh, should probably keep this quiet.’
‘Well I’m not outin’ ya to MARY.’
Red panel red panel red panel red panel!
Four years in the making, I knew we had to come here four years ago (appx)
Uh… shouldn’t she have said ‘I’m sorry for holding Ethan hostage and causing you trauma’ first?
Amber doesn’t need to hear that; her healing comes from confronting and transcending her own failures first.
She already apologized directly to Ethan and he said he’s cool about it
Okay, so BenRG has the right of it, but Amber does not have to forgive Sal just because Ethan did. That’s not how it works.
I think everything Amber did to her after that kinda cancels her right to that apology out. Amber took her pound of flesh I don’t really see why she should get an apology on top of it. Hell, she doesn’t even deserve this forgiveness what with the fact that she’s expressed no real remorse for any of it.
Her entire Amazi-Girl schtick is a failed and misguided attempt to channel her immense remorse for her self-perceived monstrous nature into a way that directs her violence “away from good people.”
Yeah, harassing and stalking Sal and constantly trying to pick fights with her is a totally legit expression of remorse how silly of me.
You’ll note the part where I said failed attempt above, thanks. At no point have I argued Amber is doing the right thing or is justified in her behavior. All I’m saying is that you claim she has no remorse and she has clearly shown otherwise.
I said expressed no real remorse. Her actions and words towards Sal have given no meaningful indication she feels remorse for her actions.
“Not a fair [fight], you haven’t” is Amber saying that it was unfair when she stabbed Sal. That’s remorse for her actions. I suppose you’ll argue it’s not meaningful, but we’ll have to disagree on that.
It’s not meaningful. It’s not an apology. It was said IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO PICK A FIGHT WITH SAL.
All right, I get it. Amber will always be in the wrong, and nothing she does ever has any justification or generosity behind it. Heaven forbid anyone get anything out of this story other than your interpretation.
*Genuosity, but apparently that isn’t a real word.
I have yet to see an actual real justification for Amber’s actions. An explanation is not a justification. A justification shows why an action was the right and reasonable thing to do. None of the things I take issue with in her behaviour are right or reasonable.
I said justification when I should have said explanation. I don’t think Amber’s justified. I think she’s a barely held together mess of a person who clearly loathes herself and is constantly beating herself up with guilt over her actions, including those toward Sal.
Shame that guilt hasn’t manifested in not treating Sal like shit.
And again, we’re back to going nowhere productive. Amber changed her behavior toward Sal in both personas immediately upon realizing that Sal is more than just a flat comic antagonist, and while her efforts are obviously hampered by the fact that she seems two steps away from a total break with reality at any given moment, she’s tried to be better. Her efforts and her issues make a difference to me. Clearly, you don’t feel the same way. That’s fine.
I also disagree that Amazi-Girl was ever an expression of remorse, or at least fully. AG existed to protect Amber, at her very core, and to fight the battles that Amber couldn’t. That’s… literally why she stalked Sal. To beat her up, for Amber. If AG was supposed to express remorse and redirect violence away from “good people”, shouldn’t there have been more focus on the good people that AG saved? But except for main characters Danny and Dorothy, there is more focus on AG fighting the bad guys- or stalking and harassing Sal.
Now, Amazi-Girl has expressed remorse for what she’s done to Sal, but that’s not quite the same thing as her entire existence being an expression of remorse. She’s a defense system.
Amazi-Girl didn’t start as remorse for Amber’s actions toward Sal. She started as a safe way for Amber to direct her aggression and rage, and when Amber still only thought of Sal as a monster from her past trauma, she directed those feelings toward her. Then, when Amber realized that Sal was not actually her Joe Chill, she redirected that anger again toward actual bad guys.
Amazi-Girl was never about helping ‘good people,’ really, she was about Amber making sure her violent urges only went toward people who deserved it. A group she realized Sal wasn’t part of. Amber views, or at least did view, Amazi-Girl as a Dexter-esque outlet to make sure that one monster was only hurting other monsters.
I wasn’t saying AG was an expression of remorse for what she did to Sal, though I can see why you thought that. I just don’t think AG is an expression of remorse for Amber’s anger/violence in general. She’s an outlet for Amber’s anger, that’s not the same thing. AG makes sure that they’re fighting acceptable targets, in the name of “justice”, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s because she felt remorse over that one act of violence she did to a person that was no longer a threat. If anything, Amazi-Girl is an expression of guilt, not remorse. Guilt from Amber for losing control and lashing out physically, not really guilt about hurting people. Amazi-Girl is there to prove that they can stay in control… while hurting people.
It’s not just “Never again” will Amber hurt someone, it’s “Never again” will Amber lose control of herself. That’s the main thing here.
shouldn’t there have been more focus on the good people that AG saved?
She saved an entire floor of good people (and Mary) from the terrible Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit, and there was a complete storyline about it!
I don’t think she’s forgiving her because like…she feels she’s the one who was wrong, she’s forgiving her because she realizes that is what’s haunting amber.
I rarely get wet in the eye from webcomics but this is one of those strips.
This doesnt mean that I see comics as lesser or something. I just mainly read light comedy ones.
weird
happy hanukkah america 🕎
*western hemisphere
The fact that the background in the last panel is red has me worried about how Amber will respond.
You know, Sal, that’s the one thing that I don’t think Amber believes she deserves.
This is the potential end of Amazi-Girl. I’m assuming that is why the panel is red.
Oh Sal this could go one of two ways, the way you hope it’ll go or the woy of more drama (I like drama)
We’re always wise after the event but maybe starting with something like “I’m sorry I held a knife to your friends throat and scared the utter bejeesus out you” might have been a better strategy because its sounding like Sal thinks this is all on Amber and that she, Sal, is completely blameless in all of this and I’m gonna hazard a guess and suggest that Amber might think otherwise
Ah well only another 21 hours or so to see what happens
NOW KISS
When I read through the comments for the first time, yours was the last, and now I firmly wish this could be the case for everyone who reads these comments :3
Nothing more cruel than compassion eh?
I’m not crying, you’re crying.
On a personal journey level, I love this moment in Sal’s. I think it’s really powerful to look things over, to go, “This isn’t okay, but they are trying.
I don’t have to let them do a thing again, but I also don’t have to carry the fear and the anger and the pain with me anymore.” To look things over as clearly as you can and to put your faith in people again. Even if this isn’t something Amber needs, this is something *Sal* does, and I think it’s really important that she gets it. Sometimes granting forgiveness is done for another person, but so often it’s also for yourself.
What a strong harnessing of her own go big or go home energy. In this moment, I’m really happy for and proud of Sal.
That said, I’d really like this acknowledgment and understanding of one another as people to go both ways and I’m bracing to not get it, because while Sal is there, is climbing that mountain of her own personal journey and making pretty good time, it feels like Amber hasn’t even climbed out of her own personal pit of doom, and I feel like the red screen bears that up. That said, as much as I’m rooting for everyone in this comic, in most ways, I don’t care, because for me, this isn’t about Amber. However Amber reacts, this moment for me is about Sal. This is about Sal finding and reaching for hope again. Throughout this entire arc, she’s been trying (and sometimes failing) to open up, to connect. And however this turns out, this is another powerful symbol of her willingness to keep trying, to make those big gestures to go with the smaller ones. I don’t know, it’s just a really good Sal moment, and I’m still feeling a lot.
Well, Amber looks like she’s got a tear coming out of her eye in that last panel. Oh dear.
It’s only just struck me (even though Sal basically says it in the first panel) how this is exactly what Amber needs, and why. Everyone else who’s tried to help her has gone for the “You’re not a monster” route. Ethan’s gone for “We were young!”, her mother’s just insisted she isn’t, anyone who knows she’s the rapist-stabber has been really proud of her, Ruth promised her that she wasn’t doomed to become her father, and so on.
Sal is now the only person trying to help who has accepted that Amber did something grievously wrong. She may not be saying “Yep, you’re a monster”, but she is not entirely denying Amber’s self-image. You can’t be forgiven unless there actually is something there to forgive.
Huh. You’re right. Walky did it first, too. Damn, how did the Walkerton twins end up so good with such shit parents?
The difference is that Walky just enabled her, in a sense, because he was looking for an excuse to feel bad about himself as well. Here Sal is saying “Maybe you did do a terrible thing, and that might even make you a bad person, but hey, look at that, it’s possible to get over it.” Describing herself as doing “big things” too, and then moving in the opposite direction to anger, she’s suggesting that Amber can do so too — but she’s not lecturing it.
This is why I think commenters saying she should have opened with “I’m sorry” or that she should have continued with “I hope you can forgive me too” are wrong. If Amber hears “I’m sorry,” she’s going to hear “You may not have been entirely wrong to do what you did, because I did something bad too and probably deserved it,” which is no different from people cheering her on for stabbing Ryan. (In Amber’s twisted little mind, of course.) If Sal says “I hope you can forgive me too,” then Sal’s forgiveness becomes meaningless because it’s just a step in manipulating Amber into forgiving her — plus, Amber will go into “I’m a monster, so I’m incapable of doing something that decent” mode.
If this is going to work, Sal can’t bring in her side of things. She’s focusing on the one, big thing, and leaving the context out — when the context is what everyone else insists on talking about.
You stabbed me. I forgive you.
That’s it. It doesn’t matter that you did it because you were traumatized. It doesn’t matter that your dad pushed it to it. It doesn’t matter you were thirteen. It doesn’t matter that I was the reason you were traumatized. It doesn’t matter that I was trying to rob the store for a good cause. The stabbing happened. And I, the only one who can, forgive you for it.
TL;DR — I’m not saying this is going to work, but it’s the only way it could.
Ohhhhhhh,
is that a new red panel flashback being created,
or a red panel eraser???
Can’t decide…
Need tomorrow strip!!!
😛
No, I really think this is because Amber does not believe that she deserves forgiveness; being offered forgiveness is therefore a bad thing for her. She’s about to trigger though in what way remains to be seen.
Oof I don’t like that red, will this be met with violent indignance?
Well… As people have pointed out, the last panel being red is a bit worrisome, but either way, I am very, very proud of Sal for being able to take the first step towards reconciliation here as she has done. There’s a lot, a LOT, of people in the world who would never, ever forgive someone who has wounded them.
“What?! You don’t get to forgive me! I’m supposed to forgive you!”
I am not sure if Amber will be take it well that she is the one that need to be forgiven.
There is no one that needs to be forgiven. They’ve both got things to atone for.
Of course, this might not be the best way get there.
Sal atoned. Sal atoned hard. Sal lost years of her life, Sal was crippled by Amber, Sal made amends with Ethan, Sal was harassed by Amber, Sal has forgiven Amber for everything she put her through. Sal has more than paid her pound of flesh for her actions by this point.
I agree, and add that I am equally unsure if she will take it well that she is forgivABLE.
(And I suspect that that’s a major reason why Sal chose to lead with forgiveness here.)
Look, all this emotional maturity is off-brand and we all know it’s not going to last anyway, so can we have the pachys back instead?
I’m sure Amber, famed mentally healthy person, we’ll take this well and not attack Sal for offering forgiveness instead of an apology.
I mean, I’ll be pleased as punch if I’m wrong tho, this has gone on well beyond long enough.
I love Sal. Best character in this comic.
The Good News is i think Amber can do this ( or Amazigirl will intervene ) .
The bad news is … If Amber does, it will break her a psyche a second time.
Ive suspected there was a third emerging personality ( as soon we got a confirm it w as DID.). Its the Blaine like Rage junkie who is present with red panels.
She took over from Agirl attacking Blaine, and taking out Ryan from Amber.
Agirl thinks this is Amber.
This personality is the “monster created at a Parking Lot ”
If Amber and Agirl see eye to Eye on Sal they can reconcile, but that will separate Amber from the Monster.
(* without missing time , Ambers symptoms could be described as BPD Borderline with Dissasociative symptoms )
This doesn’t seem to follow. Amber and AG always had a strict separation that they themselves admit and enforce (see, for example, Amber’s strict assertion that Danny wasn’t dating her but AG after Joyce’s party). Amber has, so far, owned all her red panels.
this gives me feels
I’m not surprised but I’m sure disappointed.
#bringbackpachys
This is a huge step for Sal and I’m proud of her for the line of thinking that got her to this point, and for having the resolve to be there in the first place. Whether this is good for Amber remains to be seen but it is great for Sal and her possible sense of peace.
That being said, with discussions about racial tints over the past couple of weeks, I have to say it’s been really disheartening to see the way so many people here continue to phrase all their characterization of Sal with this extra layer of malice or making the fight out to be some one-sided thing on her part. I know some of my comments have been very #TeamSal biased but I seriously wonder about some of this discourse that just so happens to paint the black girl as this violent criminal who owes the innocent white girl so many apologies. I just wanted to get that off my chest
take the bleeding charity, take the bleeding charity…
Buuut I have a sinking feeling that the first panel in the next strip will be the equivalent of that bit in a movie where the soft violin music takes a dissonant downturn.
Uuuh-oooh… In doing the mature responsible thing, Sal has just broken Amber’s entire flawed, fractured pity narrative that her entire DID fueled psyche is built on. How can Amazi-Girl have a tragic superhero narrative if her so-called archnemesis no longer wishes to play the part and is making amends to put their equivalent to the Death of Uncle Ben or Crime Alley behind them?
Damn you Willis for giving us exactly what I wanted in worst way possible. I salute you, you magnificent heart-wrencher.
Willis is just a front: the comic is written by a monkey paw.
Amazi-Girl has already made peace with Sal (and replaced her role as archnemesis with sidekick).
It is, however, not clear if Amber knows this.
This is huge.
I commend Sal but I doubt this’ll go over well! I really hope I’m wrong!!
This’ll go either great or extraordinarily poorly
The big problem here is that I don’t believe that Amber truly feels she did anything wrong.
One would Think that but then again it would be insane for her to feel regret for stabing Ryan and not feel bad about Sal when she’s knows she’s not a bad person like the other.
Amber regards herself as garbage, with this encounter as the defining moment, and stabbing Ryan as a reprise that proves she’s no better than her father. That’s not the attitude of someone who thinks their choices were the best ones.
Oh, I’m quite sure she does. The problem is likely to be far worse: She doesn’t believe she’s worthy of forgiveness and will respond to this olive branch with hostility to ‘prove’ she isn’t.
“I forgive you.”
“…Excuse me?”
“Everything you’ve said, everything you’ve done; I forgive you.”
…of all the things I never expected would get cross-wired in my brain.