“You need to find better friends to hang out with. Like that nice Asher boy!”
“He smokes, drinks, and I’m pretty sure he’s a criminal.”
“Nonsense. It’s probably just a phase he’s going through. Good family, bright future. Shouldn’t write him off because of some childhood indiscretions. Not like that hooligan Marcie, she’s a born criminal.”
That’s been a problem for a while now. He’s passive as hell about the whole thing, any time we’ve seen him.
I’m curious, Walky gets along with his parents well enough, but he hasn’t really talked to them since reaching more of an understanding with Sal, with help from Billie, so… it may get rocky.
Charles is kinda basically just Walky, Isn’t he? like, apathetic and emotionally detached from the situation at hand; wouldn’t care if his daughter was smoking- he seems like an older version of his son, a little less obnoxious but still not all that emotionally intelligent
I think it has more to do with Charles being an enabler of Linda’s views and passive to the point of refusing to rock the boat. Other than the passive nature, he doesn’t really share any personality traits other than that with Walky, or Sal. He seems to simply agree with Linda for the sake of not causing any drama for himself, regardless of the outcome for Sal, Walky, or anyone else.
I don’t know. Charles seems nicer to Sal, but the hair thing way back when still suggests he’s actively pushing her to be what he wants, not just being a passive enabler.
I think she picked up the smoking habit from Asher, but she is justifying it by saying her mother smokes too. Which while not a great argument, is somewhat understandable that Sal is using that as a defense. Especially as Linda shots on Marcie without any good reason, other than judging Marcie based on appearances rather than any quality of her character.
Depends on your definition of “picking it up from.” Asher provided the cigarettes and maybe applied some peer pressure, but it is common to pick up habits and behavior patterns from one’s parents. A parent that is a smoker might make it seem more normal or acceptable to someone. Note I am not saying smoking is NOT normal or acceptable, but it is unhealthy, and I think people who grew up around smokers think of it less as a BAD habit than people who did not grow up around smokers.
On The other hand… most teenagers do NOT look to their parents as role models for being COOL. Cool are very often the things that the peer group thinks are cool, and that the parents would not find agreeable.
Depending on the kind of peer group and the kind of parents you have, you might even become a vegetarian to rebel – which is not a super badass way to rebel, but if it goes against the beliefs of your parents, it’s suitable for teenage rebellion!
And yet, there is a way for a parent to make something they do undeniably cool: tell their kids that they *can’t* do this thing that they do, without really explaining why.
One of my friends had parents who smoked, but didn’t tell their kids they couldn’t. Instead, they went on at length about the dangers of smoking and let their kids see all of their efforts to stop. 50% of their children started smoking, but eventually managed to give it up.
I don’t recall any other people I’ve known with parents who smoked who didn’t take up the habit. All the other parents just told their kids they weren’t allowed to smoke the vast majority of times that the topic came up.
^ This. It’s an unconsciously learned habit, because parents doing it normalizes the act. Literally everyone I know who has struggled to quit smoking had parents who smoked.
I know quite a few people with parents who smoked who never started. One even got his dad to quit by telling him as a little kid that he hated that he smoked. I forget exactly what he said but his dad quit cold turkey the next day and never smoked again – my friend turned 40 this year so his dad is like 60. My mom and dad smoked and my mom refused for YEARS to believe I was allergic to cigarettes so they smoked in the house, for years.
my mom smokes (or did while i was growing up, anyway) and made sure we knew that it was something we really shouldn’t do. neither of us has ever tried it
To Tgape (specific thoughts on what this person said) and others as kind of a general reply
I’m too tired to get into this much, and I’m no expert, this is all opinion and no real facts or proof. But, briefly: I think kids smoking to be “cool” is a misconception. Much of the mystique and glamor of smoking has been stripped away; it’s cool in fiction still, where consequences can be ignored at one’s leisure, but far less appealing in real life, where it’s mostly gross yucky or just boring. Most smokers are just plain old normal people, and symptoms of longterm smoking ain’t pretty. There are more fun ways of rebelling or trying to be cool. Alcohol, for example, where advertisements are still legal, because marketing affects the common perception a lot.
To me, when first beginning to smoke it seems to be a combination of three things: curiosity, faulty risk assessment, and a desire to feel mature or in control. Smoking is an activity of adults, like drinking, and strongly discouraged by authority, especially parents — who control most of our lives when we’re kids. It’s not about rebellion, it’s about feeling you have agency, independence. Adolescence is also scary and stressful, so “death-defying” behavior like smoking (very, very emphasized danger) makes us feel brave or powerful and so less scared. Coupled with how it’s stress-relieving for those addicted, it’s got short-term positive effects, and it’s an age where long-term consequences are hard to grasp. As for curiosity, I’ve got a friend who told me that, after turning 18 and being legally able to smoke, she bought a pack of her own volition and tried it, by herself, under no pressure from anyone. She didn’t like it (of course) so she gave the rest of the pack to a friend who did smoke.
Conversely, when considering why a kid doesn’t smoke, consider that kids of non-smoking households have a more difficult time getting access to cigarettes in the first place. Can’t buy them, after all, and can’t steal them from smoker parents or older siblings. (Or have them offered, with some older sibs.)
I like your avatar. But it’s not nice to stand in front of the horse while participating in a gunfight. I don’t want you to get shot, but if you’re missed the horse is likely to get shot. 😛
[Replying to Myth] Unless the parent constantly laments ever having started smoking, expresses hopes that the children never smoke, briefly hosts a relative visibly dying of emphysema, and finally quits smoking after a long, agonizing period with many relapses, thereby providing the best negative example, ever. RIP, Mom.
Hey, great! They’re finally talking openly about the issue. I’m sure this conversation will completely clear the air between them and lead to healing and growth and happiness for all and have nothing to do with the current out-of-flashback estrangement between them!
And while we’re at it, Linda will come to admire Sal’s devotion and loyalty and buy her a pony!
I’m all for this surprise reveal of the new spinoff webcomic where the conflicts resolve positively and everyone heals and grows together without experiencing any further tragedy. Obviously it will be called Smarting of Age, because that joke is basically comments-section memetic at this point, right?
Smarting of Age: a coming-of-age story about building stable relationships with your parents, and understanding your children as adults making their own decisions, by David “Thank You” Willis
It’s worth hate-watching if you intersperse some of Bob Saget’s stand-up, but otherwise you’re better off reading about it. It’s the safest and sappiest of sitcoms. It’s every nuclear-family newspaper comic come to life, with a double dose of Rose is Rose.
Honestly, worst we’ve really seen Marcie do is underage drinking, the time Amazigirl went after Sal initially. At least, I doubt she’s 21, and if she’s over, she’s probably the one who brought the beer for the other girls.
Not like I especially care, just that is the most no-goodnick thing she’s been seen to do on panel, to my knowledge.
Swiped from wiktionary!
”
According to Herbert Asbury’s book The Barbary Coast: An Informal History of the San Francisco Underworld (1933, A. A. Knopf, New York), the word originated in San Francisco from a particular street gang’s call to unemployed Irishmen to “huddle ’em” (to beat up Chinese migrants), after which San Francisco newspapers took to calling street gangs “hoodlums”.”
I think Asbury was making it up as he went along. The stretch from “huddle ’em” to “hoodlum” is a little too stretchy for me. The origin of the word is unknown, but might be from the Swabian “hudelum”, disorderly, says Webster’s.
Also, replying to myself – Marcie is a minor. She lives with her family. It is totally unacceptable to blame a child for their parents, even if those parents *actually are* criminals (which I doubt is the case for Marcie.)
From Linda’s viewpoint, they are criminals, because they are illegal immigrants–that’s why they were unable to apply for aid for her to get proper medical treatment for her throat injury and restore her voice.
Which scares me more considering some people’s perspectives on illegal immigrants.
(from an newspaper editorial I’d seen once) “I’m a hardcore independent. I’m also a man of the law. I nearly break into a rage-induced sweat every time I see someone drive across the parking lot… (something about lawfulness in politics) …Oh, and the illegal immigration issue? Key word is ILLEGAL. Detail all of those f*ers — they made the choice, they deserve it.”
Makes me wonder whether lawful neutral is worse than neutral evil.
It’s also very often pure bullshit and self-justification.
He might say the same if you asked him in the abstract, but I bet he wouldn’t really blink an eye at a white European who overstayed a Visa.
… Linda is narcissistic isn’t she? “Whatever she’s been doing, she’s been doing it to make us look bad”… That also fits in with the golden child/scapegoat dynamic, IIUC?
Sure, but there are other reasons for people to be bad or even abusive parents besides actually having NPD. Abusive parents can all be similar in their tactics even if the origin of the abuse differs.
(However, advice for managing parents with NPD or similar conditions is often extremely helpful for anybody dealing with abusive relatives, whatever the root cause.)
I… find the idea of advice for managing abusive parents/relatives with ‘NPD’ or other personality disorders highly sketchy. For one because it is almost always started by armchair diagnosing someone who may be an asshole, but that doesn’t mean they’ve got a disorder.
For another, because the criteria for NPD and ASPD are skewed in the way they are written which makes it easier to perceive these people inherently negatively to begin with. So it just. Adds to stigma to specify. When abuse itself doesn’t really differ in the components that make it up. There is always a lack of respect. Always a sense of entitlement. Always a desire to control. And always patterns in their behaviour.
I dunno. There’s a book called ‘Will I Ever Be Good Enough?’ that has been legitimately life-changing for many survivors of emotional / psychological paternal abuse, which some people (including in the book) call narcissistic abuse. The fact is, for many adults with narcissistic abusive parents, they legitimately believe there is something wrong with them, because people rarely name psychological abuse or narcissistic abuse as being “real” abuse the way physical violence or neglect are.
And calling out narcissistic abuse, unpacking how it stems from a warped, un-loving worldview in many specific ways, helps people genuinely, deeply understand that the abuse really, truly, is not their fault. They don’t need to try to walk on eggshells and do bizarre things to try to win love from non-abusive people; they don’t need to view love as finite and something to compete for. Love is a real need. What their abuser did was create a cruel, malicious bizarro-world to alleviate their own insecurity by torturing you. The lessons you learned there don’t apply here. Feel free to let them go.
And it’s just…it’s massively liberating. It’s healing and helpful. Trying to reach those lessons without labeling it as narcissistic abuse or without calling that kind of abuser a narcissist…I mean, maybe it’s possible? But I think calling something like it is is a truly vital step. Maybe the victim is wrong and their abuser isn’t a narcissist. But you know what? I would much rather take the risk that the victim mis-labels their aggressor than risk that the victim continues to blame themself or continues behaviors that are maladaptive in healthy relationships. In my view, one wrong is kind of annoying, and the other wrong prolongs serious harm.
I think I like the way some advice sites take things: No interest in a specific diagnosis because what does knowing they’re mentally ill truly change if they have no interest in changing their behavior, but some of those resources can apply even if they’re written for a slightly different situation. Narcissism in particular has an association separate from the clinical one, anyway.
It’s a pretty fine line because there’s the whole ableist assumption that the Mentally Ill, particularly people with ‘scary’ ones like personality disorders, are dangerous to others, and that isn’t true… but mental illness asshole brains do present unique challenges and part of being responsible when dealing with said mental illness asshole brains is trying to minimize how much the asshole brain makes other people miserable as well as you. (And then there’s all the other shitty subtext in ableism and violence and that’d take forever to get into.)
Hmm. I see what you’re saying, but I guess I still disagree.
I don’t know. It just seems to get into this territory of…I don’t want to take away a word that helps a victim label what happened and process their situation. And I think, maybe fundamentally, that it’s dishonest to use terms that minimize the wrongness a person inflicts on another person. To me, there’s no way to do that which honors the gravity of the harm done to the victim. It invalidates the depth of a victim’s grief, or rage.
Like, I have been in a situation where I was the first person a friend told when she had a traumatic experience where she was violently physically assaulted and robbed by a junkie who thought she might have drugs in her bag. She used the term “junkie,” and I wasn’t about to correct her and say the guy had “substance use disorder,” because that really plays down the evil inherent in his crime. He made a choice to do something that traumatized and dehumanized her; he lacked any empathy for her. He didn’t see her as human in that action.
In my life, I have found that it’s an automatic dealbreaker for me if a therapist refuses to label evil or cruelty as what it is. If a therapist cannot say, “This was wrong. This is why.” And then we can unpack how it affected me and what choices to make from here on out.
I’m not, in general, a person who thinks “political correctness has gone too far!” I think it’s important to be respectful of people and try to use the most polite, respectful language. But, for me, the line is when polite language doesn’t allow me to express my fury and judgement against those who do terrible things, to me or to those I love.
There are many good, lovely, kind, patient people in the world– people who choose right things. Many of these good people struggle with physical or mental illnesses.
But. There are also people who are NOT good. There are abusers, rapists, psychopaths, narcissists, junkies, and murderers. The things they did that harmed other people, people that did not deserve those things, did not just spontaneously happen, like a natural disaster or a disease. People chose to take abusive, violent, or otherwise deeply harmful actions.
If there were true justice in the world, people would feel complete empathy. For the good they did and the harm. Like, heaven and hell would be the same place– it’s just that hell means the full impact of one’s life was causing deep suffering to others. And heaven is the full understanding of the joy, healing, and uplift a person causes in others.
Obviously, this doesn’t exist in this world, and I’m pretty sure that’s not how the afterlife works either. But. I dunno. For whatever reason, that concept is very important to me. Empathy and humanizing has to be at the core of everything. When someone dehumanizes me, I have to not let that sink in. Not let myself believe that they “have a point” on literally any level. Because if they’re just a regular “jerk” or “asshole,” then maybe their assessment– of who I am, of what I do and don’t deserve– has some merit from some viewpoint. And once I get caught in that rabbit hole, I can’t get back.
That’s why strong labeling language is important to me. It helps remind me that this person is 100% WRONG about me. They’re not seeing me as human. They’ve crossed a line that alters the very way they see things.
Therefore: I do not have to give their view of me any weight. I can dismiss them. I am allowed to stop thinking about their ideas and their actions and their internal selves. I am free to move on.
Linda sounds like my mom. Like Sal, I’m not the favorite/golden child. Unlike Sal, I don’t smoke, I rarely drink, and whenever I have extra money, it goes toward my hobbies. (I have expensive hobbies. I cosplay, play TTRPGs, knit, customize dolls….)
lol up until a few months ago, I said the same about free old sewing machines – at some point it does become expensive in ways that you never anticipated (can sanity be considered a kind of currency of sorts when people start giving you the look that’s usually reserved for crazy cat people?)
That’s true! tbh I often forget exactly what a hobby can be (had an argument with my bf last night about if reading or watching movies could be hobbies – anything that can demand your attention and somewhat tax your brains by way of attracting your interest when you’re not actively doing it is a hobby imo)
Tinkering with old computer junk wasn’t, back before everyone was building Windows 98 machines. Used to be that anything 10+ years old was worthless garbage people were happy to see go…
Ah, but it was still time consuming, no? When you talk about your hobbies with other people and are capable of actively talking like one does about their pets and loved ones, I think that’s the mark of a hobby.
Low-functioning narcissistic is more like it.
Why doesn’t she just get a custom T-shirt that says ‘LINDA WALKERTON DOESN’T ADJUST!’ and not get why any non-fat cats she’s trying to impress don’t find it perfectly normal.
It’s like she can’t even figure out what comes next in dealing with a daughter going through a ‘bad girl’ phase that would be and expected problem that goes with the job for any parent with a 3rd of the education, financial & social success, etc. of Linda’s!
Your son’s not the one who takes after you, lady!
Oh, and yesterday I argued that Linda wasn’t worried about looking like a bad parent and was a bad parent for reasons than concerns over appearances. So, um, whoops, retracted. Now if you’ll ‘scuse me Ima go have a late-night snack of crow.
I would like to reiterate my point from yesterday, that Linda doesn’t actually give two shits about Sal. Only how Sal’s actions reflect upon her as a parent, and the first words out of her mouth in this strip only reinforce that, even if we had enough proof before this.
Also Sal is 100% correct that Marcie is not a hoodlum, has never done anything to deserve Linda’s ire, yet she still hates her; if that isn’t a clear enough sign she is more focused on appearances than actual substance I don’t know what is. I sincerely hope after college Sal cuts off contact with her parents, because what are the odds they actually improve as people?
Seriously, the only contact I want Sal to have with her parents once she doesn’t need them financially anymore is for her to show up for one last holiday dinner with her successful and fulfilling career and a partner who supports her (and if, like Tony or Carla, they happen to be super-prestigious then even better!) She, Walky, Billie, and assorted partners spend the night having animated conversation and not-so-subtly shutting the Walkerton parents out, and at the end of the night Sal leaves after announcing she doesn’t care about their approval anymore, but they will always know now that they were wrong about her. And then she and her partner motorcycle off into the night and spend their real non-awkward holiday with Marcie and family who aren’t terrible.
I’m coming to ship Sal/Carla more and more solely to spite Linda. The image of Carla holding Sal as they ride away but pulling one arm briefly free to flip them off as they go is like perfect.
I don’t know about that ship, but I agree with the scenario. Also, Marcie is far from a hoodlum. She works honest jobs and is the voice of reason of Sal, even without her voice.
Seriously. She is capable of moving out and living independently of her parents (even with a ton of roommates and part-time work) at 18 or thereabouts. That’s way more than a lot of kids that age can do.
I’ve also considered ‘Sal invites the Walkertons to (Or they get sent video of) her launch party for whatever awesome thing she does. (Remember, She has an excellent ear for music and wouldn’t have chosen calculus on the same ‘I am Smart and therefore take the advanced math for Smart People’ logic as Walky did. She’s gotta have either aptitude or a placement test saying that level was appropriate. There are many Impressive-Looking possibilities out there, and her major is currently undeclared.)
(I can’t see her having the patience or tolerance for bureaucratic bullshit, but Sal being the lawyer in the family working for a major activist organization while Walky does whatever he does that sure as hell is NOT doctor or lawyer would also be delicious.)
I think Sal had very little input on her classes this year. A) She’s undeclared and so likely knocking out gen ed requirements (of which there’s only 3 acceptable maths and calculus is one) and B) If her parents are paying for college, I almost guarantee Linda demanded input on her course selection.
Yes, but ‘bad kid’ or not, Sally is a Walkerton and Walkerton’s have standards. Linda doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who has lower standards. She has a bar everyone needs to meet and if you don’t, then clearly you’re not worth it, but if she has to put up with you (Sal), you’ll be in for it (see: Sal saying she was going to pass her math class so she wouldn’t have to hear another lecture from her parents about how she was a failure).
Honestly, right now, I’m shipping Sal/Marcie even harder just for her parents reactions. Spite is the best ship fuel.
On the other hand, I LOVE the idea of the Walkertons meeting Tony or Carla’s families and they get slowly more and more unnerved by how they treat Sal.
i think i only ship the “riding off on a motorcycle“ part.
I don’t agree that Sal needs to become the stereotype of what society calls successful to prove she’s a good person.
She’s got nothing to prove. Especially not to parents who don’t value her as she is.
Trying to achieve what your parents wanted you to be *out of spite* isn’t really healthy either. If Sal figures out what Sal wants to do with life, THAT’s the best triumph for herself – overcoming the abusive words said about her for years, and managing to move on. That’s already enough to ask of oneself after an upbringing that actually brings you down.
True, and the Walkertons will never respect her either way so it’s not really worth more than a revenge fantasy on my part. But I think Sal does have the potential to go every bit as far as Walky if she so desires and all the spite is on my end. What I really want for Sal is her being happy, fulfilled, and finding a supportive environment with people she trusts. (Including rebuilding her relationships with Walky and Billie and them siding with her over the parents.)
But the Walkertons getting a moment akin to Blaine’s funeral or Leslie telling her mother goodbye forever, may this choice haunt you when you’re old and alone in the Walkyverse would be so damn satisfying.
The thing is, Carla is white and comes from a rich family. Linda might be one of those “Portland progressives” who are okay with queer people as long as they’re still from “nice, quirky families” and “nice neighborhoods” and all those fun buzzwords.
Oh yeah. (We know at least that Dean McHenry voted for Robin’s opponent. I think it was the running gag in that scene?) But Carla’s wealth and obvious smarts would make it impossible for them to say she’s a good-for-nothing, same as Tony (son of Linda’s amicable ex, football player who runs fast, super courteous in all appearances thus far.)
In my vindictive little heart, what I really want wrt the Walkertons is them to realize they were utterly wrong about Sal as she walks out of their lives forever. A partner who makes their head explode could be a part of it, but ultimately just Sal being happy and as successful as she wants to be would do wonders.
I think she does. But she is also projecting a lot of her own world views into her. Which doesn’t go well. It results in her not really listening to her own daughter.
I have a grandmother who does that. So annoying. She does love me, I’m one of her most favourite persons in the world, but I can’t do a single thing to her satisfaction. I can’t talk to her for more than five minutes without her criticising or attacking me. Not connected to racism though.
‘I don’t hate Latinos as long as they’re respectable!’
– Actual words I expect out of Linda’s mouth eventually. Alternately its variants, ‘I have friends who are!’ and ‘if they came to this country legally!’ (Assuming we’re about to get direct confirmation the Diazes are in fact undocumented.)
Okay imagine if they were actually documented with green cards and everything though. But people are just assuming they’re not because “hm, Poor Mexicans? Damn illegals blah blah blah”
And the hospital refused them aid or even with the aid its too much
That would just be like, sprinkles on the shit sundae
Oh yeah. I get that the hints have been dropped in such a way that it must be intentional, but if the hints are leading up to ‘and by the way, all these people are in fact Wrong about the situation’ that will be like seventeen different layers of delicious irony.
Good lord, this woman is like, the epitome of petit-bourgeouis mentality. It sorta makes me hypothesize that racism is just a specific manifestation of it. Reason being, I know we have these people in my 99% Caucasian homeland as well, and most of them would have seen brown people on TV once or twice, rather than some prolonged cultural/social contact with them.
Thanks for the link. Good article, but i feel like it’s missing the economic component of the issue. Stuff like that got pushed because the institutions it justifies are profitable.
There’s a lot of truth in that, but it builds on things that are more fundamental, I think. Modern racism was to some extent a deliberate construct, but it’s building blocks are the same as all the other ethnic hatred and tensions and those can be found pretty much everywhere.
If you want a deep dive. Stamped from the beginning by Kendi. Award winning but accessible for a non-specialist. A recommendation from your Local librarian.
As a parent, and having just seen a strip in which it was clear that someone in their friend group had been repeatedly pressuring Sal to smoke, in addition to accept stolen goods, I have to begrudgingly accept that Linda maaay have a point. Off base, for sure, as she probably doesn’t know Asher – but as a parent, you can’t know the friends your kids hide from you. She sees Marcie and the company she keeps, and that’s enough to know that there are bad influences.
Not that Linda doesn’t have huge issues and isn’t bigoted. But if I was in this situation, and I had the view I have now, I don’t know if I would react any differently.
Also, Asher doesn’t exactly seem like he’s friends with either of the girls and since Linda doesn’t say shit about her age, just the act of smoking itself, she can go pound salt.
Also, Asher didn’t really pressure her. He offered her a smoke, she asked where he got it, and when he confirmed it wasn’t stolen, she took it. I mean, Asher’s skeezy, but I wouldn’t say he pressured Sal into doing anything.
I’d wish to see Linda’s face if she realized Sal took up smoking because she’s pissed at her parents and her mother smokes so why not? Except that would almost certainly backfire on Sal.
I’m increasingly thinking that Sal smokes and drinks as self-medication. Anxiety doesn’t always come off as fear; sometimes it’s anger becuase your brain learns that a fight response keeps you safer than flight. (In a shitty dynamic like this, because refusing to accept the other person’s reality keeps you more stable.)
That’s possible, tbh. I know it was a special circumstance, but Ethan thought Sal was having an anxiety attack just before she robbed the store, which has made me wonder if she’s ever had those.
He definitely is a bad influence. She sees the result of someone having a bad influence on her and reacts. That is what mothers do. The bigot thing is assuming it must be marcie because she’s an illegal. Ironically, marcie probably is the best influence sal has.
There’s a difference between an adult smoking and a child smoking. It does a whole lot more damage to a growing lungs, heart and body. There’s little chance to stop her from smoking via pressure though.
Though it’s likely Linda also started smoking at a young age.
And yeah, the bigotry is definitely assuming it’s Marcie. Of course, she also likely knows very little about Sal’s current circle of friends, since Sal’s likely not inviting them over or telling Mom all about them. Just Marcie, who’s been there since they were little.
I don’t think Sal and Asher are particularly close or that Asher’s getting her to do things she wouldn’t otherwise do – I’ve seen people using examples of him trying to get her to take stolen goods, but I think that ignores A) She told him to put it back and she didn’t take the cigarette until after he confirmed it wasn’t stolen and B) I think it lets Linda a little too much off the hook for her own bad influencing and hypocrisy to blame Asher here. Linda can’t accept maybe her own bad habits and behaviour influence her kids so she tries to blame a 12-13 year old. I don’t think passing the buck to another kid is helpful here. I think choosing now to reveal Linda also smokes was very deliberate – to let us know she’s not just a hypocrite, but a hypocrite who won’t admit her own faults in influencing Sal.
And while a good parent should absolutely be concerned their preteen/young teen daughter is smoking, the emphasis here is on her smoking by itself, not her age (“You’re too young to smoke” or “I can smoke because I’m an adult” or even something like “When you’re an adult you can do what you want, this is my house and my rules and I’m the mom blah blah blah”).
We all are influenced by the people around us. Children usually more than grownups. They usually don’t make us do things that are completely against our nature but they can influence our opinions or make us show certain personality traits more often.
There most likely is someone who encourages her changing.
And Linda most likely isn’t the one who introduces her to the people who later to the first store with her. So there’s another person. At least one.
Yes, other people can influence us, but I’m not sure why it follows that Asher specifically is the one who influenced Sal to start smoking and not Linda, when A) She’s the one Sal points out who smokes and B) The choice to reveal Linda smokes in this strip adds more if its Linda who’s influenced that particular behaviour and not some kid she wants to blame instead (even if she doesn’t pick the right kid).
You’re right, Linda’s not the one pointing her at the robbery (though she’s sure as hell not helping) but that’s not what we’re talking about right now.
I think that Asher is a bad influence, but not the only one and not necessarily the one who helps to make the robbery happen. He’s definitely one of those who make smoking children seem normal (he repeatedly offered) and he definitely plays a role in her smoking (12year olds don’t have that much ways to get cigarettes).
I don’t think that sal is the kind of person who follows a role model. She’s the kind of person who does the opposite of what her parents want her to do. Which makes Linda a bad influence, she most likely played a role in all this, but if she played a role in the smoking thing, it’s more likely to be spite than role model
I think role model is the wrong way to put it, but Sal doesn’t always do the opposite of what her parents want her to do. There are times she very much goes along with what her parents want or what she thinks her parents want. I don’t think so much she wants to be like her so much as I think she’s mad at her mom and her mom smokes and that’s a ‘bad’ habit so screw her, she’s smoking. Asher definitely supplies her with cigarettes and you’re right it might seem more normal because of him, but I still think putting Asher as the main influence in her smoking instead of Linda is a mistake. From an out of universe perspective, that’s why it makes most sense to bring up Linda smokes now as opposed to some other time – we’re supposed to see A) She’s a hypocrite and B) She blames other kids for influencing her daughter to do things when it’s actually on Linda. In universe, Sal throwing it being Linda’s influence in Linda’s face is a way to piss her off and we all know Sal loves doing that.
Smoking is generally a bad decision regardless of age.
I personally would go with smoking is a bad idea I regret starting but when your an adult you can make that mistake if you really want to.
It is, but when you smoke yourself, it’s a lot harder to argue that point. Your way’s a pretty good one though, except Linda doesn’t seem to regret smoking, she just doesn’t want the responsibility for influencing her kids that it comes with.
My parents both smoke. They argued really well that it’s a bad idea to smoke. Basically, they admitted that it was a dumb idea to start in the first place.
I never touched a cigarette.
Again, Linda doesn’t do that. She doesn’t seem to regret smoking, she just doesn’t want to take responsibility for the fact it’s influenced her daughter.
I don’t know that she does see “the company Marcie keeps” given the context, and given she seems to be saying Marcie is unsuitable partly because of her relatives (who we’ve seen nothing of). And given this seems to be entirely about Marcie, I don’t think we can surmise that the wider friends group is the problem here.
Linda’s a shitty mom. Even on the curve provided by Ethan’s mom probably being the shittiest mom we’ve seen, unless I’m missing one, she’s not scoring good marks.
Does make me wonder if Joyce and Sal will ever realize they’ve got a bit more in common than they thought, in terms of their moms, though I’m debating on whose is worse.
It sounds like Jocelyne’s kind of had plans for when she’s ready to burn that bridge and has started implementing them. (Not living at home, having consistent income and a website with her name, knowing what paperwork she needs and having some idea of where it would be hidden should she have to steal it – what she did for Becky implies she’s put thought into the emergency plan at least.) I tend to think she’ll come out to her parents at some point and that’ll be the crucible in which we see where Hank really rates in the parent lists. With Carol for me it’s just a matter of how bad she’ll get.
Hank came through for Becky when the Chips were down. I think he’ll come through for his own kid. WORST case, Joyce makes an impassioned stand for her, And that Turns Hank around.
I’d like to be hopeful, but my hope will rest on things like ‘what the fuck happened to Jordan and has Hank’s new understanding made him start looking him up, if only so Joyce maybe has another sympathetic sibling to talk to?’
Joycelyne has been an adult for a while, is believed to be a man by her parents, and knows she’s going to come out eventually. She’s not going to have to steal anything. She’s just going to ask for her documents and any stuff she really wants before she comes out.
Becky had to steal documents because it wasn’t planned and her father was more controlling.
Older sister, closest in age to Joyce, and trans. One of the Patreon strips shows Hank and Carol asking for baby names for a new sister and teeny tiny Jocelyne suggesting her name, for herself, explaining why they have similar-sounding names. (Generally speaking Joyce is its own separate name, not a short form, and the two don’t actually share etymological roots.)
We see Carol discussing the new baby and asking tiny toddler Jocelyne for name input in the Patreon and Joyce has no idea what’s up with Jordan, which seems much more difficult if Jordan was only a year or two older than her at most. Also all the indication is that whatever happened with Jordan made the Browns crack down even more in Joyce’s youth. It’s not recent, so given Joyce grew up with Jocelyne and has no knowledge of Jordan beyond existence he has to be older.
Let’s start with ‘making us look like bad parents’, continue to Linda calling Marcie a hoodlum and implying Sal could be one as well, and finish with that exaggerated, dismissive sigh in the last panel of ‘oh, this again’.
Three middle fingers is not enough. Carla’s gonna need to make some upgrades to her alternate universe counterpart to appropriately express the rage I feel in my heart.
(And yep, Charles in no way challenges any of this or steps in at all. Great job there Charles.)
And now I’m remembering that Billie got cookies after TOTALLING A CAR while wasted and Sal gets this at 13 and seriously, I want someone to hire a sky writer to fly over their house and write new and unique obscenities above it every goddamn day.
Also, Billie’s the suitably white passing popular daughter they’ve always wanted and the poor girl’s parents just IGNORE her and treat her so badly and what kind of parent NEGLECTS their OWN DAUGHTER? She’s better off with the Walkertons, clearly.
Something is seriously strange here. Billie bullied Walky in high school and repeatedly claimed he wasn’t her friend. So how come she has this quasi sibling status?
Because Linda really doesn’t give a damn about a person’s character as much as their race. I brought it up yesterday that it is really damn awful that BILLIE is considered as valuable as Walky despite being absolutely horrible to him 95% of the time. While Sal, who is a far better person all around than Billie, is considered lesser. And Marcie, who actually stayed in contact with Sal and cared about her and to our knowledge is basically just a rad person that isn’t a big fan of violence, is considered worthless by her.
As a European I’m at a bit of a loss regarding many of those little distinctions. In my mind hispanics are mostly descended from spanish, italian, and portugese people, and those are all white. Sure there’s a fair bit of ancestry going back to the people who lived there before, but so what? Why do the USA seem to have this need to create labels for everyone and sort them by race/ethnicity with as fine granularity as possible?
It makes it easier for dickholes among us to find a tiny trace of brown in them. :p Yes, Hispanics often have some admixture of Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, simply due to colonialism – but they also tend to have varying amounts of Native American, Asian (particularly Chinese), and Pacific Islander heritage as well. Americans latch on to those distinctions to help them “other” Hispanics. (Many of our census forms and similar population surveys even make the distinction between white and non-white Hispanic.)
It doesn’t help that we also have a long history of xenophobia that has encouraged bias against whomever the most recent “wave” of immigrants was. Every dickhole who justifies their shitty behavior with “but Irish were slaves” or “Germans had it hard, too” or similar arguments with European groups are falling back on the muddled mythology of our history we’re fed in school. They actually pride themselves in the destruction of a wide array of cultural groups when they demand that any new arrivals “assimilate” into “American culture.”
Hispanic in the US is theoretically Spanish (and Portugese) descended, which is why we do formally distinguish between white and non-white Hispanic, but in general bigoted use it means “brown people with Spanish sounding names and/or accents”. And then assumes they’re all illegal immigrants from South of the Border, even if their families have actually been living in the US since before it was the US.
“White and non-white hispanic”. There’s that granularity again. I remember seeing some questionnaire from the US where there were about 2 dozen options for what ethnicity one belonged to. I get that defining groups as the Other, as well as dividing them from each other and sowing discord among them, are tried and common strategies in order to maintain one’s position of power… But from an outsider’s perspective it’s gotten really silly in the USA. A few years ago there was this guy named Zimmermann in the news and I thought “hey, that’s a german name”, and then they said he was hispanic and I just thought “how does that work?” I also remember a Youtube clip where some white supremacist was on a talk show and genetic testing revealed one of his great-grandparents or something had been black, and therefore he was also black or something like that.
To me it seems that there are so many options for defining one’s ethnicity in the USA that it’s almost arbitrary. Maybe you guys should consider doing away with the labels, try being US citizens with ancestors from whatever countries?
It’s always hard to see from outside. It’s also hard to see from inside sometimes. Most cultures tend to harbor prejudices over things that seem silly from a greater distance. Think of all the hatreds between various European countries and the stereotypes of their people that arise. Then remember that the US is bigger and more diverse than that. And has a serious (if short by old world standards) history of racial oppression and ethnic cleansing.
It’s always been silly. Or rather, not silly but stupid and deadly serious. We’re trying and mostly failing to address some really deeply seeded problems. Of course, whenever we make a little progress there’s a massive flareup of outraged backlash, generally from whites who refuse to admit any problem exists and thus see any attempts to talk about as attacks on them.
I’d be happy to do away with the labels, but unless that starts with the racists doing so, it just lets the problems hide and fester.
As for Zimmerman – I believe he got his name from his father, who was of German descent, but his mother was Peruvian. Thus Hispanic.
And the white supremacist finding out his African heritage was funny as hell. Wonder what happened to him?
Honestly, given the history, labels are probably never going to go away. They might start to lose some of the stigma from bigotry but I think labels are here for good. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing – those ‘labels’ are often a point of connection.
Yeah, labels as point of bonding or explanation of things you knew but couldn’t put a name to can be great. (‘This is an autism thing? That explains so much!’ Or ‘you’re from X country? Oh, so was my grandmother! What was it like when you lived there?’)
Labels as loaded sense of value, much less so. But now that we’ve had them attached for so long, it’s part of the shared cultural narratives.
People don’t realize this but Southern Europeans are hated by racists too even if most Americans don’t mention it now. Seriously, the Americas are full of incredibly racist people.
Less so that they used to be. Most places they just sort of merge into “whiteness”.
Eastern Europeans faced much of the same treatment. Or the Irish.
Tied into religion too: most “real Americans” were Protestant, while a lot of the later Southern/Eastern (or Irish) immigrants were Catholic.
Of course, one way they could earn their credentials and move towards whiteness was by joining in and oppressing the blacks, who were even lower on the social scale.
I’m way too angry to do this point form, so we’re breaking out the old panel by panel analysis!
Panel One: I know I’ve been saying it out loud for about a week or so now, but I’m still amazed she just out and said it’s about Sal making them look like bad parents. Because you two sure had nothing to do with your own bargain basement bin low quality parenting, did you, Linda? Charles also doesn’t really seem all that concerned where she was or what she was doing, so I’m giving that a point too. I won’t give him one for being concerned she’s smoking though. That’s reasonable. Fuck you, Walkerton Parents Count: 3
Panel Two: And we all know what she means by that too. I wonder if Marcie would be a ‘bad influence’ if she were middle class and her parents were documented immigrants? Actually, nah, I think Linda’d still have ‘a bad feeling’ anyways. Regardless, I’m giving that a count because fuck off, Marcie’s stable and came out of her childhood, so far as we’ve seen, with considerably fewer issues than Sal has. Fuck you count: 4.
Panel 3: I love Sal. So much. Calling out her mom on her hypocrisy (yeah, I know, she SHOULD be worried her preteen/young teen is smoking so young, but she hasn’t said shit about her age, just that she smokes, so I’m calling hypocrite) and pointing out where that influence came from. I’m also appreciating that piece of info that Marcie did not in fact smoke yet. Interesting. I wonder when she took that up? Fuck you count: 5 for hypocrisy.
Panel 4: Fuck off. Marcie hasn’t done anything wrong so far as we can tell and Linda has no good reason to ban her from seeing Marcie except Marcie is poor and brown and Sal’s finally having enough of her mother’s bullshit so Linda’s blaming her friend. Count: 8 because all three of those reasons piss me off.
And you go, baby Sal for defending your friend.
Panel 5: Linda, this might shock you, but even if Marcie’s parents ARE shit, she cannot help that. She doesn’t get to decide where they live either because she is 12-13. And yeah, she probably hangs around with kids who live in her low income area, so clearly she’s co-signing everything they say and do even though we know she objects when her friends do things that make her uncomfortable or upset or she thinks are wrong.
And frankly? I’m not convinced her parents are shit. Bare minimum, they took her side when she was being bullied (even though they couldn’t help her much). More than you did, you fucking hellbeast. Better parents than YOU is the dictionary definition of damning with faint praise though, so I won’t waste too much time insulting the Diazes, you piece of shit.
Also, even if the kids in her neighbourhood ARE awful, Marcie pretty clearly prefers Sal. So I dunno what Linda’s Wannabe Perfect Upper Middle Class Suburban Americana ass is whining about. Fuck you count: 13.
Panel 6: Again, I’m so so proud of Sal here. She deserved better parents. Yeah, I see you there not saying anything about the bullshit your wife’s spewing, Charles, so I’m giving you a count too. Fuck you count: 14.
Panel 7: And yeah, totally dismissing Sal’s concerns about how she’s treated and belittling/ignoring her. Who wants to bet she’s done this before? Fuck you count: 15.
Holy fucking shit, I hate these two and I really wish Sal had better fucking parents.
I have hope for Marcie’s parents (not that we have much to go on,) and am side-eyeing the SHIT out of that line. Do we really think Linda’s even met said parents for any longer than we’ve seen her interact around Marcie?
She probably met them for the two seconds she allowed them to drop Marcie off (because Linda probably didn’t let Sal go over to their house – she probably started doing that herself when she was older).
Gotta echo basically everyone else saying that Linda’s being shitty, on multiple levels, and Charles is being useless at best. And Sal has to defend Marcie and herself from this nonsense at age 12, 13 at most. Cripes.
Just said it Sal: your mom is a racist, a xenophobe, an hypocrite and a perfectionist.
As I a Mexican I am offended by people that think latinos are good for nothings. Yes, tehre are good for nothings that are latinos, but not all are. It’s like saying all white people a colonizers and nazis.
I’m kinda bummed that the comic will never advance to the point where Linda has to face the reality that both her kids have cut her out of their lives . She’ll probably blame them but her reaction alone would be worth it.
I don’t think Walky or Billie will. Not completely. They’ll talk to her still, although I don’t believe they’ll continue accepting her shit. I think Sal’s going to cut them off though. That might take a while, unfortunately. As much as part of her hates them, there’s also still a part of her that wants her parents to love her and still loves them. It’ll be a while before that part accepts that they don’t.
The comic will probably have an epilogue at the end showing how everyone is doing years after college. Maybe in like, a reunion. Or at least I hope so, I love when series do that
Ok Linda Walkerton is going up to bat, can she actually parent without coming off as a tool? Let’s see…
Ooh Strike 1 panel 1: the “she’s making us look like bad parents” line is a bit of a red flag, In this situation one would respond with ” you had us worried sick” instead of ” this doesn’t look good for us.”
Oh strike 2 in panel 2 & 3: when her daughter starts picking up the same unhealthy activity as her she does, she’s more ready to believe she had to be someone else influencing her instead of her just setting a bad example as a role model parent. Not doing good
Aaand strike 3 with panel 4-7: I’m pretty sure at this point in time Sal and Marcie have been friends for nearly a decade and we all know that Marcie is no hoodlum. But Linda doesn’t know that because not once has she ever actually tried actually get to know the only friend of her only daughter and is instead just two ignorantly just call Marcie and her family a bunch of hoodlums. So a failure to actually get properly involved her daughter’s life and is now trying to drive a wedge between her and her best friend do to blind prejudice.
Linda might be currently tied with Carol for second place as the “least” terrible mom, but she’s just so slightly starting to loose out to her.
I think there was a time skip from the previous scene, and she’s at a point where she’s not straightening her hair, probably in part as a way to rebel as her parents seem to dislike her leaving her hair natural.
Tbh I don’t understand how sals hair works at all
Dumb rant warning: gonna talk about something irrelevant and stupid that I think about a lot
So from the hair dresser scene I think she gets it relaxed? But as a mixed girl who relaxes her hair, its not temporary. The ends stay straight and your roots grow curly. And yeah yeah I know its just an artistic liberty and there are way more unrealistic things in this comic but this is the only one that goes beyond my suspension of disbelief and I haven’t seen anyone else talk about it and its been bugging me ever since her hair poofed the first time.
Unless there’s like some other treatment that takes forever that actually is temporary but that sounds like a waste of time and money when you could just get relaxer or flat iron
Really? I’ve seen lots of people who complained their relaxer wore off after a few months. Maybe it depends what kind of relaxer the hair dresser uses? Plus, of course, hair grows out.
Linda, I can’t hear you over all of the dogs barking through the neighbourhood!
I wonder why they might be losing their shit like that the whole time you talk.
It’s like they’re hearing something *only dogs can hear.*
Because she probably has little to no issues with African-Americans. Latin Americans on the other hand…it’s clear that she sees people like Marcie as inherently ‘lower’ and immediately criminal. Racism doesn’t always give equal attention to every race or ethnicity across the board.
I think Linda does have issues with Black ppl but subconsciously. One of those white ppl who don’t mind black ppl as long as they’re not “ghetto”/angry/insert other euphemism for not code switching to mainstream white culture well enough.
Though the theory is that she’s coded Walky as white and Sal as black practically since day one. I doubt the conflict between her and Sal is tied just to Sal’s friendship with a Latina.
Her husband’s ancestors have likely been in the country for centuries, quite probably longer than Linda’s. Not a lot of non-slave immigration from Africa until relatively recently.
Of course some would claim that doesn’t make him a real American.
It’s not the immigration. She didn’t know their immigration status, at least at first, unless she was just assuming – in which case, it’s not the immigration. Plenty of hispanic folks have been here a long time too. In some cases since the states they’re in were states.
Same reason why sexist men marry women. Lots and lots of cognitive dissonance, respectability issues at play and quite often denial about their prejudice.
The ‘worst’ thing we’ve seen Marcie do is climb on top of playground equipment. I imagine she doesn’t like Marcie because her parents are undocumented immigrants, which inherently makes her ‘bad’ and ‘criminal’. It sounds like she lives in a bad neighborhood, and she’s not got a lot of money. Plus, Sal seems to keep getting into trouble because she sticks up for Marcie, which makes Marcie the troublemaker in Linda’s eyes. Obviously Sal’s not innocent in her eyes either, but she seems to think no Marcie means no ‘acting out’. So…tl;dr basically a lot of ignorant racism wrapped up with victim blaming. If only that gosh darned Marcie wouldn’t get herself pushed on the ground and struck in the throat!
The initial incident at the playground seemed to be the first time any of them met Marcie (or her family, if they were there.)
If Linda was prejudiced against the 5 year old Marcie then, it had nothing to with her or her parents being undocumented but just because she was Hispanic. Unless she was just assuming they were undocumented because they were Hispanic, in which case …
Racism. It’s the racism. Marcie was earning her ire from age 5 by existing as latino and we’ve seen her do nothing to actually earn such ire. Marcie in fact, has been the victim of violence at least twice now and Linda’s level of care about it has been non-existent.
Oh, Good ol’ Linda Walkerton. Her 13-year-old daughter is distraught after her friend is injuried, she goes out late at night and comes back smelling like cigarettes, she is obviously mad at you and doesn’t trust you enough to be honest and this is a problem… Because Meany Sally is “Making You Look Like a Bad Parent”.
No care for your goddam daughter, who is for all intent and purposes still a fucking child, just about how she makes you LOOK. As if the reason she acts that way has nothing to do with your neglect and favortism and racism against her and her best friend, the kid just decided to wake up one day and ruin Linda’s reputation as a “Good ParentTM” because she just magically became troubled outta nothing (or due to that Hooligan Marcie’s influance).
When Sal robbed those convenience stores, I bet Linda only cared about being seen as a “Parent of a Criminal” and not about WHAT caused Sal to do this or the fact that she was STABBED IN THE HAND.
That does add another twist to the “send away to Catholic school” reaction doesn’t it.
Get her away from here so her actions don’t reflect on me and everyone can forget about her and just see how wonderful I’m doing with my smart boy.
I’m sure this strip did wonders to BBCC’s blood pressure. *reads comments* Yep.
To Linda’s credit, she’s actually right in the second panel – it’s just that the bad influences Sal hangs around with are HER PARENTS.
Also, Marcie is one of the most I-have-my-shit-together characters in the whole comic, including (especially?) the adults, so you can fuck the hell right off Linda, and you can take your sigh-and-eyeroll with you.
Also, Charles should see if he can find a spine somewhere. It’s not that hard, you fuck. Fish got them, and they’re dumb as shit.
Tbh, Charles’s absolute uselessness is making me wonder if he is a victim of Linda’s abuse too. Because alone with Sal… he tried. He was completely inept, but an attempt was made. Otherwise… he has absolutely no reason to be doing this badly as a parent.
Linda didn’t do anything to make him insult her hair to her face. And Sal’s always mentioning her parentS when she talks about things like lecturing her on how she’s a failure. I think Charles is often more subtle in his shit and maybe more unintentional, but he is shit.
A fair point. I would like to see more of Charles by himself pretty much solely to see if there is anything else sympathetic there other than ‘he made an attempt and failed completely’ or if he is just mostly terrible, and his only redeeming quality is that he actually holds some real care for Sal (which is like, not even redeeming, you’re supposed to care about your children). And because he’s spoken in… 5 strips total? Usually Linda dominates the conversation so thoroughly he doesn’t say anything.
…Well, you’re not wrong. I actually counted how many things made me say ‘fuck you’ to the Walkerton parents this time. It was not quite as cathartic as I hoped. Ah well, I got to get back into panel by panel so that was fun. Probably less analytical and more ‘swearing rage’ but eh.
I know right? Marcie’s easily one of the most together characters we have, so Linda can go fuck herself.
Linda is an awful parent but it’s also a point here that Sal is going to seriously derail her life. She robs a store, threatens someone with a knife, and ends up traumatizing both for life. It’s easy to blame Linda’s awful parenting for Sal’s serious screw ups but Becky had an even worse time and didn’t end up turning to violent crime. It’s kind of a terrible awful self-fulfilling prophecy that Sal thinks by rebelling against Linda’s expectations by being “bad” she’s doing the right thing–and she’s just unwittingly serving her agenda.
I think their abuse is going to end up being part of it (such as her not wearing a mask because she wanted to get caught) but yeah, that’s also very much part of it.
I don’t think anyone thinks the robbery was the right reaction to abuse, so much as we still sympathize more with Sal than her parents. And yeah, I do think the robbery has its roots in the Walkerton’s abuse, the same way Sal’s stabbing has its roots in Blaine’s. Amber and Sal both made those choices, but it’d be disingenuous to say that the parents had nothing to do with it and no responsibility (in the ‘causing it to happen’ sense rather than the ‘did it’ sense).
I still want the Walkerton parents to eventually meet their children’s friends and classmates.
Sal? Oh the hot chick with the bike? She’s so cool. I heard she hangs out with Amazi-girl. And she’s got a great singing voice.
Walky? The kid who threw a toy at a girl’s head the first week of school? He mostly skips clads to McDonald’s and wath cartoons. I’m pretty sure I saw him literally eat his homework once.
Marcie’s not a lesbian, she’s bi. And the reason is more likely to be because she’s Latina considering that A) Linda’s a racist and B) Even if Marcie’s out already, it’s unlikely Linda would know.
And Linda hated Marcie from moment one on the playground. Even if Marcie were expressing romantic interest in people at age 5 (she wasn’t, but if tiny straight kids can have crushes so can tiny gays,) straight people tend to assume that gayness doesn’t exist until the onset of puberty. But your 1-year-old boy can still be a ladykiller or flirt or chick magnet and you can buy onesies for all of those.
You can even be racist about black people while married to a black guy. Everything we’ve seen up til now points at her treatment of her kids being tied directly to Walky being “generically beige” and Sal being black – even though their skin color is the same. For whatever reason, they code differently for her and have since they were very young.
It’s not all about Sal hanging out with Marcie.
That’s actually something that confused me when Sal first called racist, Walky’s and Sal have the exact same skin tone.
I just assumed that it was just an attempt to make them look more similar for us, and that in ‘reality’ Sal’s skin was a few shades darker (or Walky’s a few shades lighter)
Skin color isn’t the only racial trait. It could be facial features. Hair has definitely been called out as a difference between them. Hers is more kinky, when she hasn’t murdered it straight.
Our very first clue that something was up was Walky’s description of her as black and himself as beige, despite them being the same skin tone.
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“Because she hangs out with ME!”
…
“wait no”
Racism Watchdog: BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK
The dogwhistles are so loud that Snoop‘s going crazy all the way up in La Porte.
Actually that DOES explain dogs barking at “nothing” in the middle of the night
And every other time
“I learned it from watching YOU!”
Linda goes out and does sweet skateboard tricks with Marcie.
With? P sure they’d be SKATE RIVALS
dang I bet Linda does roller derby too
“Okay, FINE. I hate Marcie because she can’t grind a rail worth a darn! Not like that cool, God-fearing hero, Lucas Lee!”
Now there is a way to make a few coins. Hopefully the hospital accepts C$.
“You need to find better friends to hang out with. Like that nice Asher boy!”
“He smokes, drinks, and I’m pretty sure he’s a criminal.”
“Nonsense. It’s probably just a phase he’s going through. Good family, bright future. Shouldn’t write him off because of some childhood indiscretions. Not like that hooligan Marcie, she’s a born criminal.”
#notracistatall
What race is Marcie, anyway?
Marcie Diaz?
Well if we’re going by the Diaz I know, half-Cuban
(I should be clear, before comments get locked, that this comment is tongue-in-cheek)
aaaand a hearty “fuck you” to Linda
AND Charles. The flippancy and utter lack of concern just destroyed any benefit of the doubt he once had.
That’s been a problem for a while now. He’s passive as hell about the whole thing, any time we’ve seen him.
I’m curious, Walky gets along with his parents well enough, but he hasn’t really talked to them since reaching more of an understanding with Sal, with help from Billie, so… it may get rocky.
Charles is kinda basically just Walky, Isn’t he? like, apathetic and emotionally detached from the situation at hand; wouldn’t care if his daughter was smoking- he seems like an older version of his son, a little less obnoxious but still not all that emotionally intelligent
I think it has more to do with Charles being an enabler of Linda’s views and passive to the point of refusing to rock the boat. Other than the passive nature, he doesn’t really share any personality traits other than that with Walky, or Sal. He seems to simply agree with Linda for the sake of not causing any drama for himself, regardless of the outcome for Sal, Walky, or anyone else.
I don’t know. Charles seems nicer to Sal, but the hair thing way back when still suggests he’s actively pushing her to be what he wants, not just being a passive enabler.
This is gonna get worse before it gets… not better.
i hate that sigh so much
So, looks like Sal might have in part picked up her smoking habit from her mother?
I think she picked up the smoking habit from Asher, but she is justifying it by saying her mother smokes too. Which while not a great argument, is somewhat understandable that Sal is using that as a defense. Especially as Linda shots on Marcie without any good reason, other than judging Marcie based on appearances rather than any quality of her character.
She is also racist and thinks Walky will become a doctor. Linda, you suck.
Depends on your definition of “picking it up from.” Asher provided the cigarettes and maybe applied some peer pressure, but it is common to pick up habits and behavior patterns from one’s parents. A parent that is a smoker might make it seem more normal or acceptable to someone. Note I am not saying smoking is NOT normal or acceptable, but it is unhealthy, and I think people who grew up around smokers think of it less as a BAD habit than people who did not grow up around smokers.
On The other hand… most teenagers do NOT look to their parents as role models for being COOL. Cool are very often the things that the peer group thinks are cool, and that the parents would not find agreeable.
Depending on the kind of peer group and the kind of parents you have, you might even become a vegetarian to rebel – which is not a super badass way to rebel, but if it goes against the beliefs of your parents, it’s suitable for teenage rebellion!
And yet, there is a way for a parent to make something they do undeniably cool: tell their kids that they *can’t* do this thing that they do, without really explaining why.
One of my friends had parents who smoked, but didn’t tell their kids they couldn’t. Instead, they went on at length about the dangers of smoking and let their kids see all of their efforts to stop. 50% of their children started smoking, but eventually managed to give it up.
I don’t recall any other people I’ve known with parents who smoked who didn’t take up the habit. All the other parents just told their kids they weren’t allowed to smoke the vast majority of times that the topic came up.
^ This. It’s an unconsciously learned habit, because parents doing it normalizes the act. Literally everyone I know who has struggled to quit smoking had parents who smoked.
Though many with parents who smoked never started themselves. Part of that may simply be the drop in smoking rates over the generations.
I know quite a few people with parents who smoked who never started. One even got his dad to quit by telling him as a little kid that he hated that he smoked. I forget exactly what he said but his dad quit cold turkey the next day and never smoked again – my friend turned 40 this year so his dad is like 60. My mom and dad smoked and my mom refused for YEARS to believe I was allergic to cigarettes so they smoked in the house, for years.
my mom smokes (or did while i was growing up, anyway) and made sure we knew that it was something we really shouldn’t do. neither of us has ever tried it
To Tgape (specific thoughts on what this person said) and others as kind of a general reply
I’m too tired to get into this much, and I’m no expert, this is all opinion and no real facts or proof. But, briefly: I think kids smoking to be “cool” is a misconception. Much of the mystique and glamor of smoking has been stripped away; it’s cool in fiction still, where consequences can be ignored at one’s leisure, but far less appealing in real life, where it’s mostly gross yucky or just boring. Most smokers are just plain old normal people, and symptoms of longterm smoking ain’t pretty. There are more fun ways of rebelling or trying to be cool. Alcohol, for example, where advertisements are still legal, because marketing affects the common perception a lot.
To me, when first beginning to smoke it seems to be a combination of three things: curiosity, faulty risk assessment, and a desire to feel mature or in control. Smoking is an activity of adults, like drinking, and strongly discouraged by authority, especially parents — who control most of our lives when we’re kids. It’s not about rebellion, it’s about feeling you have agency, independence. Adolescence is also scary and stressful, so “death-defying” behavior like smoking (very, very emphasized danger) makes us feel brave or powerful and so less scared. Coupled with how it’s stress-relieving for those addicted, it’s got short-term positive effects, and it’s an age where long-term consequences are hard to grasp. As for curiosity, I’ve got a friend who told me that, after turning 18 and being legally able to smoke, she bought a pack of her own volition and tried it, by herself, under no pressure from anyone. She didn’t like it (of course) so she gave the rest of the pack to a friend who did smoke.
Conversely, when considering why a kid doesn’t smoke, consider that kids of non-smoking households have a more difficult time getting access to cigarettes in the first place. Can’t buy them, after all, and can’t steal them from smoker parents or older siblings. (Or have them offered, with some older sibs.)
I like your avatar. But it’s not nice to stand in front of the horse while participating in a gunfight. I don’t want you to get shot, but if you’re missed the horse is likely to get shot. 😛
That’s right. Hide behind the horse in a gunfight. 🙂
[Replying to Myth] Unless the parent constantly laments ever having started smoking, expresses hopes that the children never smoke, briefly hosts a relative visibly dying of emphysema, and finally quits smoking after a long, agonizing period with many relapses, thereby providing the best negative example, ever. RIP, Mom.
Hey, great! They’re finally talking openly about the issue. I’m sure this conversation will completely clear the air between them and lead to healing and growth and happiness for all and have nothing to do with the current out-of-flashback estrangement between them!
And while we’re at it, Linda will come to admire Sal’s devotion and loyalty and buy her a pony!
I’m all for this surprise reveal of the new spinoff webcomic where the conflicts resolve positively and everyone heals and grows together without experiencing any further tragedy. Obviously it will be called Smarting of Age, because that joke is basically comments-section memetic at this point, right?
Smarting of Age: a coming-of-age story about building stable relationships with your parents, and understanding your children as adults making their own decisions, by David “Thank You” Willis
… Nah. The world already has Full House.
And now I know that I never need to watch Full House!
It’s worth hate-watching if you intersperse some of Bob Saget’s stand-up, but otherwise you’re better off reading about it. It’s the safest and sappiest of sitcoms. It’s every nuclear-family newspaper comic come to life, with a double dose of Rose is Rose.
– Reltzik Or a Ducati
“I know the reason……she’s a rebel and she’ll never, ever be any good!”
I don’t see dentistry in Sal’s future, but I have been wrong before.
Sal doesn’t need to make you look like bad parents, Linda, you’re doing that all on your own.
This exactly. Linda needs no help looking like a bad parent, and Charles is no better since he just agrees with everything she says.
Yeah, Linda & Chuck both just keep sliding down the scale for me.
I scrolled down until I found someone who’d already said this for me.
Regarding the alt text, I definitely agree Marcie is no hoodlum. A scallywag, perhaps, maybe even a rascal.
But that’s a good order of magnitude away from from hoodlum.
Honestly, worst we’ve really seen Marcie do is underage drinking, the time Amazigirl went after Sal initially. At least, I doubt she’s 21, and if she’s over, she’s probably the one who brought the beer for the other girls.
Not like I especially care, just that is the most no-goodnick thing she’s been seen to do on panel, to my knowledge.
Oh, she’s miles away from being a no-goodnick. That’s past cad and well on the way to dastard
Just past blackguard.
Which is funny, because that word rhymes with what Linda’s being!
None of them are over 21. Carla, who is 19, bought the beer with a fake ID.
Carla bought the beer. It seems that her ability to buy booze is why they hang with her.
“I’m not raising a….a….HOODLUM.”
Um, I’m an Alien whose still learning about Humans, yet even I can see Mummy Dearest isn’t doing that well with the non-favorite child…
Fun Fact: the term “hoodlum” was originally intended as a slur against Irish immigrants.
Now You Know.
Linda just doesn’t want Sal to turn Irish, y’all! /s
Where did you get that etymology? It doesn’t concord at all with Mirriam-Webster. The word isn’t related to “hooligan.”
Swiped from wiktionary!
”
According to Herbert Asbury’s book The Barbary Coast: An Informal History of the San Francisco Underworld (1933, A. A. Knopf, New York), the word originated in San Francisco from a particular street gang’s call to unemployed Irishmen to “huddle ’em” (to beat up Chinese migrants), after which San Francisco newspapers took to calling street gangs “hoodlums”.”
I think Asbury was making it up as he went along. The stretch from “huddle ’em” to “hoodlum” is a little too stretchy for me. The origin of the word is unknown, but might be from the Swabian “hudelum”, disorderly, says Webster’s.
I haven’t read the book, so I can’t attest to how well their research or arguing is done.
How dare Sal make her parents look bad?
Yeah, because that’s not an racially charged word at all. JFC, does she hear herself?
Also, replying to myself – Marcie is a minor. She lives with her family. It is totally unacceptable to blame a child for their parents, even if those parents *actually are* criminals (which I doubt is the case for Marcie.)
From Linda’s viewpoint, they are criminals, because they are illegal immigrants–that’s why they were unable to apply for aid for her to get proper medical treatment for her throat injury and restore her voice.
Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanour. If they’re criminals, so is everyone with an overdue parking ticket.
And anyone jaywalking!
But, you know, it’s not a crime because most people who do it have legal ID of the country they’re in…
Not from Linda’s viewpoint. 🙁
Of course, such opinions aren’t often as connected to immigration status as the people holding them like to pretend.
I’m not sure what you mean, what OtHER reason could Linda POSSIBLY dislike Marcie?
Yeah, she’s the worst.
she could also hate her because she’s gay but I’m pretty sure it has to do with immigration status
Marcie’s bi. Also 12-13, so she might know but even if she does and is out already, it’s unlikely Linda knows about it.
She was against her from first meeting at ~5. Without meeting her parents.
It’s not the immigration status. Unless immigration status is a code for “brown” as it so often is.
Pretty much what thejeff said.
Which scares me more considering some people’s perspectives on illegal immigrants.
(from an newspaper editorial I’d seen once) “I’m a hardcore independent. I’m also a man of the law. I nearly break into a rage-induced sweat every time I see someone drive across the parking lot… (something about lawfulness in politics) …Oh, and the illegal immigration issue? Key word is ILLEGAL. Detail all of those f*ers — they made the choice, they deserve it.”
Makes me wonder whether lawful neutral is worse than neutral evil.
*detain
The line between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil can be so very, very fine when the law itself and the neutral state cause serious harm.
To be fair the line between chaotic neutral and chaotic evil is also very fine.
It’s also very often pure bullshit and self-justification.
He might say the same if you asked him in the abstract, but I bet he wouldn’t really blink an eye at a white European who overstayed a Visa.
… Linda is narcissistic isn’t she? “Whatever she’s been doing, she’s been doing it to make us look bad”… That also fits in with the golden child/scapegoat dynamic, IIUC?
Sure, but there are other reasons for people to be bad or even abusive parents besides actually having NPD. Abusive parents can all be similar in their tactics even if the origin of the abuse differs.
(However, advice for managing parents with NPD or similar conditions is often extremely helpful for anybody dealing with abusive relatives, whatever the root cause.)
I… find the idea of advice for managing abusive parents/relatives with ‘NPD’ or other personality disorders highly sketchy. For one because it is almost always started by armchair diagnosing someone who may be an asshole, but that doesn’t mean they’ve got a disorder.
For another, because the criteria for NPD and ASPD are skewed in the way they are written which makes it easier to perceive these people inherently negatively to begin with. So it just. Adds to stigma to specify. When abuse itself doesn’t really differ in the components that make it up. There is always a lack of respect. Always a sense of entitlement. Always a desire to control. And always patterns in their behaviour.
I dunno. There’s a book called ‘Will I Ever Be Good Enough?’ that has been legitimately life-changing for many survivors of emotional / psychological paternal abuse, which some people (including in the book) call narcissistic abuse. The fact is, for many adults with narcissistic abusive parents, they legitimately believe there is something wrong with them, because people rarely name psychological abuse or narcissistic abuse as being “real” abuse the way physical violence or neglect are.
And calling out narcissistic abuse, unpacking how it stems from a warped, un-loving worldview in many specific ways, helps people genuinely, deeply understand that the abuse really, truly, is not their fault. They don’t need to try to walk on eggshells and do bizarre things to try to win love from non-abusive people; they don’t need to view love as finite and something to compete for. Love is a real need. What their abuser did was create a cruel, malicious bizarro-world to alleviate their own insecurity by torturing you. The lessons you learned there don’t apply here. Feel free to let them go.
And it’s just…it’s massively liberating. It’s healing and helpful. Trying to reach those lessons without labeling it as narcissistic abuse or without calling that kind of abuser a narcissist…I mean, maybe it’s possible? But I think calling something like it is is a truly vital step. Maybe the victim is wrong and their abuser isn’t a narcissist. But you know what? I would much rather take the risk that the victim mis-labels their aggressor than risk that the victim continues to blame themself or continues behaviors that are maladaptive in healthy relationships. In my view, one wrong is kind of annoying, and the other wrong prolongs serious harm.
I think I like the way some advice sites take things: No interest in a specific diagnosis because what does knowing they’re mentally ill truly change if they have no interest in changing their behavior, but some of those resources can apply even if they’re written for a slightly different situation. Narcissism in particular has an association separate from the clinical one, anyway.
It’s a pretty fine line because there’s the whole ableist assumption that the Mentally Ill, particularly people with ‘scary’ ones like personality disorders, are dangerous to others, and that isn’t true… but mental illness asshole brains do present unique challenges and part of being responsible when dealing with said mental illness asshole brains is trying to minimize how much the asshole brain makes other people miserable as well as you. (And then there’s all the other shitty subtext in ableism and violence and that’d take forever to get into.)
Hmm. I see what you’re saying, but I guess I still disagree.
I don’t know. It just seems to get into this territory of…I don’t want to take away a word that helps a victim label what happened and process their situation. And I think, maybe fundamentally, that it’s dishonest to use terms that minimize the wrongness a person inflicts on another person. To me, there’s no way to do that which honors the gravity of the harm done to the victim. It invalidates the depth of a victim’s grief, or rage.
Like, I have been in a situation where I was the first person a friend told when she had a traumatic experience where she was violently physically assaulted and robbed by a junkie who thought she might have drugs in her bag. She used the term “junkie,” and I wasn’t about to correct her and say the guy had “substance use disorder,” because that really plays down the evil inherent in his crime. He made a choice to do something that traumatized and dehumanized her; he lacked any empathy for her. He didn’t see her as human in that action.
In my life, I have found that it’s an automatic dealbreaker for me if a therapist refuses to label evil or cruelty as what it is. If a therapist cannot say, “This was wrong. This is why.” And then we can unpack how it affected me and what choices to make from here on out.
I’m not, in general, a person who thinks “political correctness has gone too far!” I think it’s important to be respectful of people and try to use the most polite, respectful language. But, for me, the line is when polite language doesn’t allow me to express my fury and judgement against those who do terrible things, to me or to those I love.
There are many good, lovely, kind, patient people in the world– people who choose right things. Many of these good people struggle with physical or mental illnesses.
But. There are also people who are NOT good. There are abusers, rapists, psychopaths, narcissists, junkies, and murderers. The things they did that harmed other people, people that did not deserve those things, did not just spontaneously happen, like a natural disaster or a disease. People chose to take abusive, violent, or otherwise deeply harmful actions.
If there were true justice in the world, people would feel complete empathy. For the good they did and the harm. Like, heaven and hell would be the same place– it’s just that hell means the full impact of one’s life was causing deep suffering to others. And heaven is the full understanding of the joy, healing, and uplift a person causes in others.
Obviously, this doesn’t exist in this world, and I’m pretty sure that’s not how the afterlife works either. But. I dunno. For whatever reason, that concept is very important to me. Empathy and humanizing has to be at the core of everything. When someone dehumanizes me, I have to not let that sink in. Not let myself believe that they “have a point” on literally any level. Because if they’re just a regular “jerk” or “asshole,” then maybe their assessment– of who I am, of what I do and don’t deserve– has some merit from some viewpoint. And once I get caught in that rabbit hole, I can’t get back.
That’s why strong labeling language is important to me. It helps remind me that this person is 100% WRONG about me. They’re not seeing me as human. They’ve crossed a line that alters the very way they see things.
Therefore: I do not have to give their view of me any weight. I can dismiss them. I am allowed to stop thinking about their ideas and their actions and their internal selves. I am free to move on.
Linda sounds like my mom. Like Sal, I’m not the favorite/golden child. Unlike Sal, I don’t smoke, I rarely drink, and whenever I have extra money, it goes toward my hobbies. (I have expensive hobbies. I cosplay, play TTRPGs, knit, customize dolls….)
lol same, is there a hobby that isn’t expensive and/or time consuming?
Collecting interesting rocks from your yard?
… That’s about all I’ve got.
lol up until a few months ago, I said the same about free old sewing machines – at some point it does become expensive in ways that you never anticipated (can sanity be considered a kind of currency of sorts when people start giving you the look that’s usually reserved for crazy cat people?)
Isn’t that the point of a hobby? A way to consume excess resources, like time and money?
That’s true! tbh I often forget exactly what a hobby can be (had an argument with my bf last night about if reading or watching movies could be hobbies – anything that can demand your attention and somewhat tax your brains by way of attracting your interest when you’re not actively doing it is a hobby imo)
Tinkering with old computer junk wasn’t, back before everyone was building Windows 98 machines. Used to be that anything 10+ years old was worthless garbage people were happy to see go…
Ah, but it was still time consuming, no? When you talk about your hobbies with other people and are capable of actively talking like one does about their pets and loved ones, I think that’s the mark of a hobby.
Well, one point of a hobby is to be time consuming. Hiking is pretty inexpensive, unless you want to spend lots of money on gear.
Indeed, you’re right. We actively want to invest at least our attention to our interests
Most of my hobbies are inexpensive– writing, sketching, etc. But definitely time consuming for sure.
Obsessively reading and commenting on webcomics isn’t expensive.
Time consuming though!
Low-functioning narcissistic is more like it.
Why doesn’t she just get a custom T-shirt that says ‘LINDA WALKERTON DOESN’T ADJUST!’ and not get why any non-fat cats she’s trying to impress don’t find it perfectly normal.
It’s like she can’t even figure out what comes next in dealing with a daughter going through a ‘bad girl’ phase that would be and expected problem that goes with the job for any parent with a 3rd of the education, financial & social success, etc. of Linda’s!
Your son’s not the one who takes after you, lady!
Oh, and yesterday I argued that Linda wasn’t worried about looking like a bad parent and was a bad parent for reasons than concerns over appearances. So, um, whoops, retracted. Now if you’ll ‘scuse me Ima go have a late-night snack of crow.
I would like to reiterate my point from yesterday, that Linda doesn’t actually give two shits about Sal. Only how Sal’s actions reflect upon her as a parent, and the first words out of her mouth in this strip only reinforce that, even if we had enough proof before this.
Also Sal is 100% correct that Marcie is not a hoodlum, has never done anything to deserve Linda’s ire, yet she still hates her; if that isn’t a clear enough sign she is more focused on appearances than actual substance I don’t know what is. I sincerely hope after college Sal cuts off contact with her parents, because what are the odds they actually improve as people?
Seriously, the only contact I want Sal to have with her parents once she doesn’t need them financially anymore is for her to show up for one last holiday dinner with her successful and fulfilling career and a partner who supports her (and if, like Tony or Carla, they happen to be super-prestigious then even better!) She, Walky, Billie, and assorted partners spend the night having animated conversation and not-so-subtly shutting the Walkerton parents out, and at the end of the night Sal leaves after announcing she doesn’t care about their approval anymore, but they will always know now that they were wrong about her. And then she and her partner motorcycle off into the night and spend their real non-awkward holiday with Marcie and family who aren’t terrible.
I’m coming to ship Sal/Carla more and more solely to spite Linda. The image of Carla holding Sal as they ride away but pulling one arm briefly free to flip them off as they go is like perfect.
I don’t know about that ship, but I agree with the scenario. Also, Marcie is far from a hoodlum. She works honest jobs and is the voice of reason of Sal, even without her voice.
Seriously. She is capable of moving out and living independently of her parents (even with a ton of roommates and part-time work) at 18 or thereabouts. That’s way more than a lot of kids that age can do.
Also, she did it to be with Sal, so Linda can roll that up in her cig and smoke it.
I’ve also considered ‘Sal invites the Walkertons to (Or they get sent video of) her launch party for whatever awesome thing she does. (Remember, She has an excellent ear for music and wouldn’t have chosen calculus on the same ‘I am Smart and therefore take the advanced math for Smart People’ logic as Walky did. She’s gotta have either aptitude or a placement test saying that level was appropriate. There are many Impressive-Looking possibilities out there, and her major is currently undeclared.)
(I can’t see her having the patience or tolerance for bureaucratic bullshit, but Sal being the lawyer in the family working for a major activist organization while Walky does whatever he does that sure as hell is NOT doctor or lawyer would also be delicious.)
I think Sal had very little input on her classes this year. A) She’s undeclared and so likely knocking out gen ed requirements (of which there’s only 3 acceptable maths and calculus is one) and B) If her parents are paying for college, I almost guarantee Linda demanded input on her course selection.
Maybe. But I’d expect Linda to have lower expectations for her and thus not put her in the same math class as her brilliant son.
Yes, but ‘bad kid’ or not, Sally is a Walkerton and Walkerton’s have standards. Linda doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who has lower standards. She has a bar everyone needs to meet and if you don’t, then clearly you’re not worth it, but if she has to put up with you (Sal), you’ll be in for it (see: Sal saying she was going to pass her math class so she wouldn’t have to hear another lecture from her parents about how she was a failure).
Honestly, right now, I’m shipping Sal/Marcie even harder just for her parents reactions. Spite is the best ship fuel.
On the other hand, I LOVE the idea of the Walkertons meeting Tony or Carla’s families and they get slowly more and more unnerved by how they treat Sal.
Also good and wonderful. Sweet, sweet spite.
I multiship so this is basically like watering a garden for me. With spite.
i think i only ship the “riding off on a motorcycle“ part.
I don’t agree that Sal needs to become the stereotype of what society calls successful to prove she’s a good person.
She’s got nothing to prove. Especially not to parents who don’t value her as she is.
Trying to achieve what your parents wanted you to be *out of spite* isn’t really healthy either. If Sal figures out what Sal wants to do with life, THAT’s the best triumph for herself – overcoming the abusive words said about her for years, and managing to move on. That’s already enough to ask of oneself after an upbringing that actually brings you down.
True, and the Walkertons will never respect her either way so it’s not really worth more than a revenge fantasy on my part. But I think Sal does have the potential to go every bit as far as Walky if she so desires and all the spite is on my end. What I really want for Sal is her being happy, fulfilled, and finding a supportive environment with people she trusts. (Including rebuilding her relationships with Walky and Billie and them siding with her over the parents.)
But the Walkertons getting a moment akin to Blaine’s funeral or Leslie telling her mother goodbye forever, may this choice haunt you when you’re old and alone in the Walkyverse would be so damn satisfying.
The thing is, Carla is white and comes from a rich family. Linda might be one of those “Portland progressives” who are okay with queer people as long as they’re still from “nice, quirky families” and “nice neighborhoods” and all those fun buzzwords.
Oh yeah. (We know at least that Dean McHenry voted for Robin’s opponent. I think it was the running gag in that scene?) But Carla’s wealth and obvious smarts would make it impossible for them to say she’s a good-for-nothing, same as Tony (son of Linda’s amicable ex, football player who runs fast, super courteous in all appearances thus far.)
In my vindictive little heart, what I really want wrt the Walkertons is them to realize they were utterly wrong about Sal as she walks out of their lives forever. A partner who makes their head explode could be a part of it, but ultimately just Sal being happy and as successful as she wants to be would do wonders.
I rather suspect that if Sal succeeded in some way that Linda couldn’t dismiss, she would take credit for having pushed Sal to achieve.
[grrr!]
I think she does. But she is also projecting a lot of her own world views into her. Which doesn’t go well. It results in her not really listening to her own daughter.
I have a grandmother who does that. So annoying. She does love me, I’m one of her most favourite persons in the world, but I can’t do a single thing to her satisfaction. I can’t talk to her for more than five minutes without her criticising or attacking me. Not connected to racism though.
“”””for some reason””””
Incoming White Parent I’m Not Racist I Have A Mixed Race Child bullshit, probably with a delicate seasoning of classist pearl-clutching
‘I don’t hate Latinos as long as they’re respectable!’
– Actual words I expect out of Linda’s mouth eventually. Alternately its variants, ‘I have friends who are!’ and ‘if they came to this country legally!’ (Assuming we’re about to get direct confirmation the Diazes are in fact undocumented.)
Okay imagine if they were actually documented with green cards and everything though. But people are just assuming they’re not because “hm, Poor Mexicans? Damn illegals blah blah blah”
And the hospital refused them aid or even with the aid its too much
That would just be like, sprinkles on the shit sundae
Oh yeah. I get that the hints have been dropped in such a way that it must be intentional, but if the hints are leading up to ‘and by the way, all these people are in fact Wrong about the situation’ that will be like seventeen different layers of delicious irony.
Marrying a black guy doesn’t make you not racist, Bongo. Stop rolling your eyes.
Bigotry comes in many colors.
It’s like a shittier version of Joseph’s technicolour dream coat.
More like a Technicolor yawn.
Good lord, this woman is like, the epitome of petit-bourgeouis mentality. It sorta makes me hypothesize that racism is just a specific manifestation of it. Reason being, I know we have these people in my 99% Caucasian homeland as well, and most of them would have seen brown people on TV once or twice, rather than some prolonged cultural/social contact with them.
I have a theory that a lot of modern Racism was deliberately fostered to make things like Slavery and colonialism go down much easier.
Many people who study the subject agree — see for example:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/european-racism-africa-slavery
Thanks for the link. Good article, but i feel like it’s missing the economic component of the issue. Stuff like that got pushed because the institutions it justifies are profitable.
There’s a lot of truth in that, but it builds on things that are more fundamental, I think. Modern racism was to some extent a deliberate construct, but it’s building blocks are the same as all the other ethnic hatred and tensions and those can be found pretty much everywhere.
If you want a deep dive. Stamped from the beginning by Kendi. Award winning but accessible for a non-specialist. A recommendation from your Local librarian.
Okay the Walkertons can both fuck off now
What a horrible piece of shit Linda is.
As a parent, and having just seen a strip in which it was clear that someone in their friend group had been repeatedly pressuring Sal to smoke, in addition to accept stolen goods, I have to begrudgingly accept that Linda maaay have a point. Off base, for sure, as she probably doesn’t know Asher – but as a parent, you can’t know the friends your kids hide from you. She sees Marcie and the company she keeps, and that’s enough to know that there are bad influences.
Not that Linda doesn’t have huge issues and isn’t bigoted. But if I was in this situation, and I had the view I have now, I don’t know if I would react any differently.
OK, commense with the tomatoes and rotten fruit.
While I’m not saying that Asher’s behavior is correct, petty shoplifting and underage smoking does not a “hoodlum” make.
Also, Asher doesn’t exactly seem like he’s friends with either of the girls and since Linda doesn’t say shit about her age, just the act of smoking itself, she can go pound salt.
Especially since, evidently, she smokes. Blatant hypocrisy never works as a parenting method.
Also, Asher didn’t really pressure her. He offered her a smoke, she asked where he got it, and when he confirmed it wasn’t stolen, she took it. I mean, Asher’s skeezy, but I wouldn’t say he pressured Sal into doing anything.
I’d wish to see Linda’s face if she realized Sal took up smoking because she’s pissed at her parents and her mother smokes so why not? Except that would almost certainly backfire on Sal.
I’m increasingly thinking that Sal smokes and drinks as self-medication. Anxiety doesn’t always come off as fear; sometimes it’s anger becuase your brain learns that a fight response keeps you safer than flight. (In a shitty dynamic like this, because refusing to accept the other person’s reality keeps you more stable.)
That’s possible, tbh. I know it was a special circumstance, but Ethan thought Sal was having an anxiety attack just before she robbed the store, which has made me wonder if she’s ever had those.
I think every 13year old would be nervous and anxious before robbing a store..
Definitely, but I’m trying to find out if the borderline anxiety attack is a one off.
He definitely is a bad influence. She sees the result of someone having a bad influence on her and reacts. That is what mothers do. The bigot thing is assuming it must be marcie because she’s an illegal. Ironically, marcie probably is the best influence sal has.
There’s a difference between an adult smoking and a child smoking. It does a whole lot more damage to a growing lungs, heart and body. There’s little chance to stop her from smoking via pressure though.
Though it’s likely Linda also started smoking at a young age.
And yeah, the bigotry is definitely assuming it’s Marcie. Of course, she also likely knows very little about Sal’s current circle of friends, since Sal’s likely not inviting them over or telling Mom all about them. Just Marcie, who’s been there since they were little.
I don’t think Sal and Asher are particularly close or that Asher’s getting her to do things she wouldn’t otherwise do – I’ve seen people using examples of him trying to get her to take stolen goods, but I think that ignores A) She told him to put it back and she didn’t take the cigarette until after he confirmed it wasn’t stolen and B) I think it lets Linda a little too much off the hook for her own bad influencing and hypocrisy to blame Asher here. Linda can’t accept maybe her own bad habits and behaviour influence her kids so she tries to blame a 12-13 year old. I don’t think passing the buck to another kid is helpful here. I think choosing now to reveal Linda also smokes was very deliberate – to let us know she’s not just a hypocrite, but a hypocrite who won’t admit her own faults in influencing Sal.
And while a good parent should absolutely be concerned their preteen/young teen daughter is smoking, the emphasis here is on her smoking by itself, not her age (“You’re too young to smoke” or “I can smoke because I’m an adult” or even something like “When you’re an adult you can do what you want, this is my house and my rules and I’m the mom blah blah blah”).
We all are influenced by the people around us. Children usually more than grownups. They usually don’t make us do things that are completely against our nature but they can influence our opinions or make us show certain personality traits more often.
There most likely is someone who encourages her changing.
And Linda most likely isn’t the one who introduces her to the people who later to the first store with her. So there’s another person. At least one.
Yes, other people can influence us, but I’m not sure why it follows that Asher specifically is the one who influenced Sal to start smoking and not Linda, when A) She’s the one Sal points out who smokes and B) The choice to reveal Linda smokes in this strip adds more if its Linda who’s influenced that particular behaviour and not some kid she wants to blame instead (even if she doesn’t pick the right kid).
You’re right, Linda’s not the one pointing her at the robbery (though she’s sure as hell not helping) but that’s not what we’re talking about right now.
I think that Asher is a bad influence, but not the only one and not necessarily the one who helps to make the robbery happen. He’s definitely one of those who make smoking children seem normal (he repeatedly offered) and he definitely plays a role in her smoking (12year olds don’t have that much ways to get cigarettes).
I don’t think that sal is the kind of person who follows a role model. She’s the kind of person who does the opposite of what her parents want her to do. Which makes Linda a bad influence, she most likely played a role in all this, but if she played a role in the smoking thing, it’s more likely to be spite than role model
I think role model is the wrong way to put it, but Sal doesn’t always do the opposite of what her parents want her to do. There are times she very much goes along with what her parents want or what she thinks her parents want. I don’t think so much she wants to be like her so much as I think she’s mad at her mom and her mom smokes and that’s a ‘bad’ habit so screw her, she’s smoking. Asher definitely supplies her with cigarettes and you’re right it might seem more normal because of him, but I still think putting Asher as the main influence in her smoking instead of Linda is a mistake. From an out of universe perspective, that’s why it makes most sense to bring up Linda smokes now as opposed to some other time – we’re supposed to see A) She’s a hypocrite and B) She blames other kids for influencing her daughter to do things when it’s actually on Linda. In universe, Sal throwing it being Linda’s influence in Linda’s face is a way to piss her off and we all know Sal loves doing that.
Smoking is generally a bad decision regardless of age.
I personally would go with smoking is a bad idea I regret starting but when your an adult you can make that mistake if you really want to.
It is, but when you smoke yourself, it’s a lot harder to argue that point. Your way’s a pretty good one though, except Linda doesn’t seem to regret smoking, she just doesn’t want the responsibility for influencing her kids that it comes with.
My parents both smoke. They argued really well that it’s a bad idea to smoke. Basically, they admitted that it was a dumb idea to start in the first place.
I never touched a cigarette.
Again, Linda doesn’t do that. She doesn’t seem to regret smoking, she just doesn’t want to take responsibility for the fact it’s influenced her daughter.
I don’t know that she does see “the company Marcie keeps” given the context, and given she seems to be saying Marcie is unsuitable partly because of her relatives (who we’ve seen nothing of). And given this seems to be entirely about Marcie, I don’t think we can surmise that the wider friends group is the problem here.
Linda’s a shitty mom. Even on the curve provided by Ethan’s mom probably being the shittiest mom we’ve seen, unless I’m missing one, she’s not scoring good marks.
Does make me wonder if Joyce and Sal will ever realize they’ve got a bit more in common than they thought, in terms of their moms, though I’m debating on whose is worse.
A lot will depend on if Joyce’s mom ever finds out about Joycelyne.
It sounds like Jocelyne’s kind of had plans for when she’s ready to burn that bridge and has started implementing them. (Not living at home, having consistent income and a website with her name, knowing what paperwork she needs and having some idea of where it would be hidden should she have to steal it – what she did for Becky implies she’s put thought into the emergency plan at least.) I tend to think she’ll come out to her parents at some point and that’ll be the crucible in which we see where Hank really rates in the parent lists. With Carol for me it’s just a matter of how bad she’ll get.
Hank came through for Becky when the Chips were down. I think he’ll come through for his own kid. WORST case, Joyce makes an impassioned stand for her, And that Turns Hank around.
Might lead to a divorce though.
I’d like to be hopeful, but my hope will rest on things like ‘what the fuck happened to Jordan and has Hank’s new understanding made him start looking him up, if only so Joyce maybe has another sympathetic sibling to talk to?’
Joycelyne has been an adult for a while, is believed to be a man by her parents, and knows she’s going to come out eventually. She’s not going to have to steal anything. She’s just going to ask for her documents and any stuff she really wants before she comes out.
Becky had to steal documents because it wasn’t planned and her father was more controlling.
I’m confused. I though “Jocelyne” was just joyce’s full name.
Jocelyne is Joyce’s older sister. They all have J-names because parents.
Jocelyne’s a chosen name though, right?
Yes, Jocelyne chose her name. There’s a patreon strip which reveals she decided on it as a toddler, actually.
Joyce has said more than once that she never had a sister.
Older sister, closest in age to Joyce, and trans. One of the Patreon strips shows Hank and Carol asking for baby names for a new sister and teeny tiny Jocelyne suggesting her name, for herself, explaining why they have similar-sounding names. (Generally speaking Joyce is its own separate name, not a short form, and the two don’t actually share etymological roots.)
Is she closest in age? I thought she was the second child, and Jordan was #3.
We see Carol discussing the new baby and asking tiny toddler Jocelyne for name input in the Patreon and Joyce has no idea what’s up with Jordan, which seems much more difficult if Jordan was only a year or two older than her at most. Also all the indication is that whatever happened with Jordan made the Browns crack down even more in Joyce’s youth. It’s not recent, so given Joyce grew up with Jocelyne and has no knowledge of Jordan beyond existence he has to be older.
Jocelyne’s second oldest iirc. Jordan’s the second youngest.
Hank suggests that what happened with Jordan was CAUSED BY cracking down on him, when he suggests Carol back off on Joyce.
> “lives with”
*face of deep concern* That… is… an entire new layer of issues and dogwhistles even aside from everything else.
Yeah, I missed it first read through with all the rage but. Yeah. *Incoherent noiseless rage*
Let’s start with ‘making us look like bad parents’, continue to Linda calling Marcie a hoodlum and implying Sal could be one as well, and finish with that exaggerated, dismissive sigh in the last panel of ‘oh, this again’.
Three middle fingers is not enough. Carla’s gonna need to make some upgrades to her alternate universe counterpart to appropriately express the rage I feel in my heart.
(And yep, Charles in no way challenges any of this or steps in at all. Great job there Charles.)
Red. Red’s all I can see.
And now I’m remembering that Billie got cookies after TOTALLING A CAR while wasted and Sal gets this at 13 and seriously, I want someone to hire a sky writer to fly over their house and write new and unique obscenities above it every goddamn day.
I have time to start writing new and unique obscenities if you do.
We should alternate shifts, to keep the creative edges sharp.
Sounds like a plan.
Billie’s rich and therefore worth cultivating. Actions don’t matter, only power.
Which is probably yet another reason why Walky is the Golden Child – he made friends with the right person instead of the wrong person.
Also, Billie’s the suitably white passing popular daughter they’ve always wanted and the poor girl’s parents just IGNORE her and treat her so badly and what kind of parent NEGLECTS their OWN DAUGHTER? She’s better off with the Walkertons, clearly.
So much better off.
I hate them. so much.
dang. this, yes. well spotted. also, agreed.
Something is seriously strange here. Billie bullied Walky in high school and repeatedly claimed he wasn’t her friend. So how come she has this quasi sibling status?
Let’s see:
– Grew up together
-Bullies him incessantly
-Always helps when he needs her, but gives him a hard time
-Always goes to him when she’s in trouble
She’s right, they’re not friends – this IS sibling behavior.
Because Linda really doesn’t give a damn about a person’s character as much as their race. I brought it up yesterday that it is really damn awful that BILLIE is considered as valuable as Walky despite being absolutely horrible to him 95% of the time. While Sal, who is a far better person all around than Billie, is considered lesser. And Marcie, who actually stayed in contact with Sal and cared about her and to our knowledge is basically just a rad person that isn’t a big fan of violence, is considered worthless by her.
Though it’s worth pointing out in this context that Billie is half-asian.
Though she may get coded as white in the same kind of way Walky does.
Linda’s perception of race is somewhat skewed.
Billie’s even straight up said she’s the suitably white passing daughter Linda really wanted.
Yeah, I’m getting the feeling she codes Billie as ‘white’ rather than as ‘mixed race’ or as a POC in general.
But do you read the National Midnight Star?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wdn4OPZTX8
I thought that was going to be a link to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A42ZYNno5oQ
Getting a head start on the chapter name, I see.
I swear to god if Linda tries a “I’m not racist, I married a black man” type argument towards Sal I am going to be even more angry than I already am.
I know right? Charles may as well argue he can’t POSSIBLY be sexist, look, he has a wife!
I thought she was nationalist. Is Marcie Hispanic or white?
Hispanic.
Well I mean, nationalism and racism kinda go hand in hand. “My people are the best of all the people and all other people are inferior to us”
As a European I’m at a bit of a loss regarding many of those little distinctions. In my mind hispanics are mostly descended from spanish, italian, and portugese people, and those are all white. Sure there’s a fair bit of ancestry going back to the people who lived there before, but so what? Why do the USA seem to have this need to create labels for everyone and sort them by race/ethnicity with as fine granularity as possible?
It makes it easier for dickholes among us to find a tiny trace of brown in them. :p Yes, Hispanics often have some admixture of Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, simply due to colonialism – but they also tend to have varying amounts of Native American, Asian (particularly Chinese), and Pacific Islander heritage as well. Americans latch on to those distinctions to help them “other” Hispanics. (Many of our census forms and similar population surveys even make the distinction between white and non-white Hispanic.)
It doesn’t help that we also have a long history of xenophobia that has encouraged bias against whomever the most recent “wave” of immigrants was. Every dickhole who justifies their shitty behavior with “but Irish were slaves” or “Germans had it hard, too” or similar arguments with European groups are falling back on the muddled mythology of our history we’re fed in school. They actually pride themselves in the destruction of a wide array of cultural groups when they demand that any new arrivals “assimilate” into “American culture.”
Hispanic in the US is theoretically Spanish (and Portugese) descended, which is why we do formally distinguish between white and non-white Hispanic, but in general bigoted use it means “brown people with Spanish sounding names and/or accents”. And then assumes they’re all illegal immigrants from South of the Border, even if their families have actually been living in the US since before it was the US.
“White and non-white hispanic”. There’s that granularity again. I remember seeing some questionnaire from the US where there were about 2 dozen options for what ethnicity one belonged to. I get that defining groups as the Other, as well as dividing them from each other and sowing discord among them, are tried and common strategies in order to maintain one’s position of power… But from an outsider’s perspective it’s gotten really silly in the USA. A few years ago there was this guy named Zimmermann in the news and I thought “hey, that’s a german name”, and then they said he was hispanic and I just thought “how does that work?” I also remember a Youtube clip where some white supremacist was on a talk show and genetic testing revealed one of his great-grandparents or something had been black, and therefore he was also black or something like that.
To me it seems that there are so many options for defining one’s ethnicity in the USA that it’s almost arbitrary. Maybe you guys should consider doing away with the labels, try being US citizens with ancestors from whatever countries?
It’s always hard to see from outside. It’s also hard to see from inside sometimes. Most cultures tend to harbor prejudices over things that seem silly from a greater distance. Think of all the hatreds between various European countries and the stereotypes of their people that arise. Then remember that the US is bigger and more diverse than that. And has a serious (if short by old world standards) history of racial oppression and ethnic cleansing.
It’s always been silly. Or rather, not silly but stupid and deadly serious. We’re trying and mostly failing to address some really deeply seeded problems. Of course, whenever we make a little progress there’s a massive flareup of outraged backlash, generally from whites who refuse to admit any problem exists and thus see any attempts to talk about as attacks on them.
I’d be happy to do away with the labels, but unless that starts with the racists doing so, it just lets the problems hide and fester.
As for Zimmerman – I believe he got his name from his father, who was of German descent, but his mother was Peruvian. Thus Hispanic.
And the white supremacist finding out his African heritage was funny as hell. Wonder what happened to him?
Honestly, given the history, labels are probably never going to go away. They might start to lose some of the stigma from bigotry but I think labels are here for good. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing – those ‘labels’ are often a point of connection.
Yeah, labels as point of bonding or explanation of things you knew but couldn’t put a name to can be great. (‘This is an autism thing? That explains so much!’ Or ‘you’re from X country? Oh, so was my grandmother! What was it like when you lived there?’)
Labels as loaded sense of value, much less so. But now that we’ve had them attached for so long, it’s part of the shared cultural narratives.
People don’t realize this but Southern Europeans are hated by racists too even if most Americans don’t mention it now. Seriously, the Americas are full of incredibly racist people.
Less so that they used to be. Most places they just sort of merge into “whiteness”.
Eastern Europeans faced much of the same treatment. Or the Irish.
Tied into religion too: most “real Americans” were Protestant, while a lot of the later Southern/Eastern (or Irish) immigrants were Catholic.
Of course, one way they could earn their credentials and move towards whiteness was by joining in and oppressing the blacks, who were even lower on the social scale.
I’m way too angry to do this point form, so we’re breaking out the old panel by panel analysis!
Panel One: I know I’ve been saying it out loud for about a week or so now, but I’m still amazed she just out and said it’s about Sal making them look like bad parents. Because you two sure had nothing to do with your own bargain basement bin low quality parenting, did you, Linda? Charles also doesn’t really seem all that concerned where she was or what she was doing, so I’m giving that a point too. I won’t give him one for being concerned she’s smoking though. That’s reasonable. Fuck you, Walkerton Parents Count: 3
Panel Two: And we all know what she means by that too. I wonder if Marcie would be a ‘bad influence’ if she were middle class and her parents were documented immigrants? Actually, nah, I think Linda’d still have ‘a bad feeling’ anyways. Regardless, I’m giving that a count because fuck off, Marcie’s stable and came out of her childhood, so far as we’ve seen, with considerably fewer issues than Sal has. Fuck you count: 4.
Panel 3: I love Sal. So much. Calling out her mom on her hypocrisy (yeah, I know, she SHOULD be worried her preteen/young teen is smoking so young, but she hasn’t said shit about her age, just that she smokes, so I’m calling hypocrite) and pointing out where that influence came from. I’m also appreciating that piece of info that Marcie did not in fact smoke yet. Interesting. I wonder when she took that up? Fuck you count: 5 for hypocrisy.
Panel 4: Fuck off. Marcie hasn’t done anything wrong so far as we can tell and Linda has no good reason to ban her from seeing Marcie except Marcie is poor and brown and Sal’s finally having enough of her mother’s bullshit so Linda’s blaming her friend. Count: 8 because all three of those reasons piss me off.
And you go, baby Sal for defending your friend.
Panel 5: Linda, this might shock you, but even if Marcie’s parents ARE shit, she cannot help that. She doesn’t get to decide where they live either because she is 12-13. And yeah, she probably hangs around with kids who live in her low income area, so clearly she’s co-signing everything they say and do even though we know she objects when her friends do things that make her uncomfortable or upset or she thinks are wrong.
And frankly? I’m not convinced her parents are shit. Bare minimum, they took her side when she was being bullied (even though they couldn’t help her much). More than you did, you fucking hellbeast. Better parents than YOU is the dictionary definition of damning with faint praise though, so I won’t waste too much time insulting the Diazes, you piece of shit.
Also, even if the kids in her neighbourhood ARE awful, Marcie pretty clearly prefers Sal. So I dunno what Linda’s Wannabe Perfect Upper Middle Class Suburban Americana ass is whining about. Fuck you count: 13.
Panel 6: Again, I’m so so proud of Sal here. She deserved better parents. Yeah, I see you there not saying anything about the bullshit your wife’s spewing, Charles, so I’m giving you a count too. Fuck you count: 14.
Panel 7: And yeah, totally dismissing Sal’s concerns about how she’s treated and belittling/ignoring her. Who wants to bet she’s done this before? Fuck you count: 15.
Holy fucking shit, I hate these two and I really wish Sal had better fucking parents.
I have hope for Marcie’s parents (not that we have much to go on,) and am side-eyeing the SHIT out of that line. Do we really think Linda’s even met said parents for any longer than we’ve seen her interact around Marcie?
She probably met them for the two seconds she allowed them to drop Marcie off (because Linda probably didn’t let Sal go over to their house – she probably started doing that herself when she was older).
Or alternatively, glimpses and such at the park.
Just long enough to form a judgmental first impression of them being poor(er than her family), “badly dressed”, and
brown“ethnic”.Yeeeeep. Aren’t they just PEACHES?
Gotta echo basically everyone else saying that Linda’s being shitty, on multiple levels, and Charles is being useless at best. And Sal has to defend Marcie and herself from this nonsense at age 12, 13 at most. Cripes.
Nah, his reaction today bumped Charles down a few notches below “useless”.
He’s a shitty father. Maybe not Blaine or Ross shitty, but definitely shitty.
Yeah, this. He doesn’t help Sal at all and often makes things worse b refusing to pay any attention to Sal’s reactions at all.
“Useless at best” doesn’t sound as negative as I think it does, does it? Oops. But yeah, I agree, Charles sucks at parenting.
It’s because of the glasses, right?
Just said it Sal: your mom is a racist, a xenophobe, an hypocrite and a perfectionist.
As I a Mexican I am offended by people that think latinos are good for nothings. Yes, tehre are good for nothings that are latinos, but not all are. It’s like saying all white people a colonizers and nazis.
Legitimately this is solid proof right here, it’s subtle but it’s undeniable.
Honestly it takes some pretty impressive mental gymnastics to complain that immigrants both “Are lazy and don’t work” and “Steal our jobs.”
I’m kinda bummed that the comic will never advance to the point where Linda has to face the reality that both her kids have cut her out of their lives . She’ll probably blame them but her reaction alone would be worth it.
I don’t think Walky or Billie will. Not completely. They’ll talk to her still, although I don’t believe they’ll continue accepting her shit. I think Sal’s going to cut them off though. That might take a while, unfortunately. As much as part of her hates them, there’s also still a part of her that wants her parents to love her and still loves them. It’ll be a while before that part accepts that they don’t.
The comic will probably have an epilogue at the end showing how everyone is doing years after college. Maybe in like, a reunion. Or at least I hope so, I love when series do that
Ok Linda Walkerton is going up to bat, can she actually parent without coming off as a tool? Let’s see…
Ooh Strike 1 panel 1: the “she’s making us look like bad parents” line is a bit of a red flag, In this situation one would respond with ” you had us worried sick” instead of ” this doesn’t look good for us.”
Oh strike 2 in panel 2 & 3: when her daughter starts picking up the same unhealthy activity as her she does, she’s more ready to believe she had to be someone else influencing her instead of her just setting a bad example as a role model parent. Not doing good
Aaand strike 3 with panel 4-7: I’m pretty sure at this point in time Sal and Marcie have been friends for nearly a decade and we all know that Marcie is no hoodlum. But Linda doesn’t know that because not once has she ever actually tried actually get to know the only friend of her only daughter and is instead just two ignorantly just call Marcie and her family a bunch of hoodlums. So a failure to actually get properly involved her daughter’s life and is now trying to drive a wedge between her and her best friend do to blind prejudice.
Linda might be currently tied with Carol for second place as the “least” terrible mom, but she’s just so slightly starting to loose out to her.
Sal and Marcie met when they were five and are currently 12 or 13, so they’ve been friends for 7 or 8 years.
And since day one Linda disliked Marcie, and she didn’t contradict the teacher that defended the bully that attacked Marcie.
Yep. Not a word of protest about any of the racist, xenophobic tripe that administrator spewed.
Marcie is not a hoodlum! she’s a daydreamer, sass mouth, and not infrequently a bit of a gigglepuss
Call me crazy, but I’m starting to notice a pattern with parents and other adult authority figures here.
They’re all older than the main cast!
That seems statistically improbable.
There are plenty of good parents in the comics, like Dorothy’s, Dina’s, Carla’s, Sierra’s. It’s just that the bad ones lead to more stories.
So, her hair gets curly when she smokes? Or is she just flat ironing it at the moment and that’s end-of-the-day hair
Seems like there’s been a bit of a time skip.
I think there was a time skip from the previous scene, and she’s at a point where she’s not straightening her hair, probably in part as a way to rebel as her parents seem to dislike her leaving her hair natural.
Tbh I don’t understand how sals hair works at all
Dumb rant warning: gonna talk about something irrelevant and stupid that I think about a lot
So from the hair dresser scene I think she gets it relaxed? But as a mixed girl who relaxes her hair, its not temporary. The ends stay straight and your roots grow curly. And yeah yeah I know its just an artistic liberty and there are way more unrealistic things in this comic but this is the only one that goes beyond my suspension of disbelief and I haven’t seen anyone else talk about it and its been bugging me ever since her hair poofed the first time.
Unless there’s like some other treatment that takes forever that actually is temporary but that sounds like a waste of time and money when you could just get relaxer or flat iron
Really? I’ve seen lots of people who complained their relaxer wore off after a few months. Maybe it depends what kind of relaxer the hair dresser uses? Plus, of course, hair grows out.
Spontaneous Fwoofing as the result of surprising bad grades is unlikely though. 🙂
Well, yeah. 😛
oh Sal.
aw, I wouldn’t mind being Leslie for a bit, this is fine
I think the problem is you don’t just ‘look’ like bad parents.
~*racism*~
“Making us look like bad parents” I mean, that’s probably because you ARE bad parents
If they look like bad parents,
And they act like bad parents,
Nice booty shorts, Charles. Now get back in bed and stop pretending to be a parent.
probably boxers tbh
Question will Linda’s attitude towards Sal change after the knife in hand event?
Sadly that will just prove that Linda was right.
Apparently, since Sal’s sent away to Catholic school with minimal contact for the next 5 years.
I suspect there’s a change of attitude in there.
Did anyone else think Walky had an Afro ?
now now, Linda. let’s be fair here. Sal’s doing nothing to make you look like bad parents
that’s all on you
Linda, I can’t hear you over all of the dogs barking through the neighbourhood!
I wonder why they might be losing their shit like that the whole time you talk.
It’s like they’re hearing something *only dogs can hear.*
Ooooooooooh riiiiiiight.
Ohhh noooo. I forgot that was part of that, too.
Oh, man. I just. Fuck off Linda. Sal needs hugs. AND Marcie.
Maybe more than she needs YOU at the moment.
There’s a real disconnect here. If Linda has a problem with darker skinned people, why did she marry an African-American?
Because she probably has little to no issues with African-Americans. Latin Americans on the other hand…it’s clear that she sees people like Marcie as inherently ‘lower’ and immediately criminal. Racism doesn’t always give equal attention to every race or ethnicity across the board.
I think Linda does have issues with Black ppl but subconsciously. One of those white ppl who don’t mind black ppl as long as they’re not “ghetto”/angry/insert other euphemism for not code switching to mainstream white culture well enough.
Though the theory is that she’s coded Walky as white and Sal as black practically since day one. I doubt the conflict between her and Sal is tied just to Sal’s friendship with a Latina.
Because she doesn’t think she has a problem with POC, just the Bad Ones.
That’s exactly what she THINKS. For sure.
Because racism and prejudice are complicated.
Maybe she has a problem with immigrants? And her husband is probably at least 2nd generation American.
Her husband’s ancestors have likely been in the country for centuries, quite probably longer than Linda’s. Not a lot of non-slave immigration from Africa until relatively recently.
Of course some would claim that doesn’t make him a real American.
It’s not the immigration. She didn’t know their immigration status, at least at first, unless she was just assuming – in which case, it’s not the immigration. Plenty of hispanic folks have been here a long time too. In some cases since the states they’re in were states.
Same reason why sexist men marry women. Lots and lots of cognitive dissonance, respectability issues at play and quite often denial about their prejudice.
Because she’s, you know.
*Mimes waving a sword*
A fencer? A cosplayer? She watches anime?
It’s been quite a while. Remind me again why Linda doesn’t like Marcie?
The ‘worst’ thing we’ve seen Marcie do is climb on top of playground equipment. I imagine she doesn’t like Marcie because her parents are undocumented immigrants, which inherently makes her ‘bad’ and ‘criminal’. It sounds like she lives in a bad neighborhood, and she’s not got a lot of money. Plus, Sal seems to keep getting into trouble because she sticks up for Marcie, which makes Marcie the troublemaker in Linda’s eyes. Obviously Sal’s not innocent in her eyes either, but she seems to think no Marcie means no ‘acting out’. So…tl;dr basically a lot of ignorant racism wrapped up with victim blaming. If only that gosh darned Marcie wouldn’t get herself pushed on the ground and struck in the throat!
The initial incident at the playground seemed to be the first time any of them met Marcie (or her family, if they were there.)
If Linda was prejudiced against the 5 year old Marcie then, it had nothing to with her or her parents being undocumented but just because she was Hispanic. Unless she was just assuming they were undocumented because they were Hispanic, in which case …
Racism. It’s the racism. Marcie was earning her ire from age 5 by existing as latino and we’ve seen her do nothing to actually earn such ire. Marcie in fact, has been the victim of violence at least twice now and Linda’s level of care about it has been non-existent.
Ok any benefit of the doubt I had for Linda’s anger is gone. Fuck Linda.
Marcie’s a hoodlum?
Interesting…
Note to self: Make sure my kids hang out with these ‘hoodlums’.
*Checks off another box on his “bad parenting” bingo card* Just a couple more and I win. 🙂
Oh, Good ol’ Linda Walkerton. Her 13-year-old daughter is distraught after her friend is injuried, she goes out late at night and comes back smelling like cigarettes, she is obviously mad at you and doesn’t trust you enough to be honest and this is a problem… Because Meany Sally is “Making You Look Like a Bad Parent”.
No care for your goddam daughter, who is for all intent and purposes still a fucking child, just about how she makes you LOOK. As if the reason she acts that way has nothing to do with your neglect and favortism and racism against her and her best friend, the kid just decided to wake up one day and ruin Linda’s reputation as a “Good ParentTM” because she just magically became troubled outta nothing (or due to that Hooligan Marcie’s influance).
When Sal robbed those convenience stores, I bet Linda only cared about being seen as a “Parent of a Criminal” and not about WHAT caused Sal to do this or the fact that she was STABBED IN THE HAND.
That does add another twist to the “send away to Catholic school” reaction doesn’t it.
Get her away from here so her actions don’t reflect on me and everyone can forget about her and just see how wonderful I’m doing with my smart boy.
Ya’ll don’t need anyone’s help to look like bad parents.
Other things that make the Walkertons look like bad parents: reality, mirrors.
I’m sure this strip did wonders to BBCC’s blood pressure. *reads comments* Yep.
To Linda’s credit, she’s actually right in the second panel – it’s just that the bad influences Sal hangs around with are HER PARENTS.
Also, Marcie is one of the most I-have-my-shit-together characters in the whole comic, including (especially?) the adults, so you can fuck the hell right off Linda, and you can take your sigh-and-eyeroll with you.
Also, Charles should see if he can find a spine somewhere. It’s not that hard, you fuck. Fish got them, and they’re dumb as shit.
Tbh, Charles’s absolute uselessness is making me wonder if he is a victim of Linda’s abuse too. Because alone with Sal… he tried. He was completely inept, but an attempt was made. Otherwise… he has absolutely no reason to be doing this badly as a parent.
Linda didn’t do anything to make him insult her hair to her face. And Sal’s always mentioning her parentS when she talks about things like lecturing her on how she’s a failure. I think Charles is often more subtle in his shit and maybe more unintentional, but he is shit.
A fair point. I would like to see more of Charles by himself pretty much solely to see if there is anything else sympathetic there other than ‘he made an attempt and failed completely’ or if he is just mostly terrible, and his only redeeming quality is that he actually holds some real care for Sal (which is like, not even redeeming, you’re supposed to care about your children). And because he’s spoken in… 5 strips total? Usually Linda dominates the conversation so thoroughly he doesn’t say anything.
I think Charles is more well-meaning than Linda, but I think in impact, he’s often the same.
…Well, you’re not wrong. I actually counted how many things made me say ‘fuck you’ to the Walkerton parents this time. It was not quite as cathartic as I hoped. Ah well, I got to get back into panel by panel so that was fun. Probably less analytical and more ‘swearing rage’ but eh.
I know right? Marcie’s easily one of the most together characters we have, so Linda can go fuck herself.
Linda is an awful parent but it’s also a point here that Sal is going to seriously derail her life. She robs a store, threatens someone with a knife, and ends up traumatizing both for life. It’s easy to blame Linda’s awful parenting for Sal’s serious screw ups but Becky had an even worse time and didn’t end up turning to violent crime. It’s kind of a terrible awful self-fulfilling prophecy that Sal thinks by rebelling against Linda’s expectations by being “bad” she’s doing the right thing–and she’s just unwittingly serving her agenda.
We’re still awaiting confirmation, but it’s looking like Sal didn’t rob the store to be “rebellious” – she did it to get money for Marcie’s bills.
I think their abuse is going to end up being part of it (such as her not wearing a mask because she wanted to get caught) but yeah, that’s also very much part of it.
I don’t think anyone thinks the robbery was the right reaction to abuse, so much as we still sympathize more with Sal than her parents. And yeah, I do think the robbery has its roots in the Walkerton’s abuse, the same way Sal’s stabbing has its roots in Blaine’s. Amber and Sal both made those choices, but it’d be disingenuous to say that the parents had nothing to do with it and no responsibility (in the ‘causing it to happen’ sense rather than the ‘did it’ sense).
hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
HATE, LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I’VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE.
I still want the Walkerton parents to eventually meet their children’s friends and classmates.
Sal? Oh the hot chick with the bike? She’s so cool. I heard she hangs out with Amazi-girl. And she’s got a great singing voice.
Walky? The kid who threw a toy at a girl’s head the first week of school? He mostly skips clads to McDonald’s and wath cartoons. I’m pretty sure I saw him literally eat his homework once.
The only reason I don’t want this is because them learning about biker Sal is going to be VERY unpleasant for Sal. Otherwise, yes, please.
sals reason is mom dosent like Marcie cause shes a lesbian ……
Marcie’s not a lesbian, she’s bi. And the reason is more likely to be because she’s Latina considering that A) Linda’s a racist and B) Even if Marcie’s out already, it’s unlikely Linda would know.
And Linda hated Marcie from moment one on the playground. Even if Marcie were expressing romantic interest in people at age 5 (she wasn’t, but if tiny straight kids can have crushes so can tiny gays,) straight people tend to assume that gayness doesn’t exist until the onset of puberty. But your 1-year-old boy can still be a ladykiller or flirt or chick magnet and you can buy onesies for all of those.
Fun fact: You can be racist even if white and married to a black guy. Racism is not a “Just at black people” problem.
Marrying a black man also doesn’t preclude the possibility of being racist to black people.
You can even be racist about black people while married to a black guy. Everything we’ve seen up til now points at her treatment of her kids being tied directly to Walky being “generically beige” and Sal being black – even though their skin color is the same. For whatever reason, they code differently for her and have since they were very young.
It’s not all about Sal hanging out with Marcie.
That’s actually something that confused me when Sal first called racist, Walky’s and Sal have the exact same skin tone.
I just assumed that it was just an attempt to make them look more similar for us, and that in ‘reality’ Sal’s skin was a few shades darker (or Walky’s a few shades lighter)
Skin color isn’t the only racial trait. It could be facial features. Hair has definitely been called out as a difference between them. Hers is more kinky, when she hasn’t murdered it straight.
Our very first clue that something was up was Walky’s description of her as black and himself as beige, despite them being the same skin tone.
Or maybe it’s the fact that Sal goes out late at night to smoke with her friends while Walky stays home
It’s possible that Linda has internalised sexism, and that this “coloured” her interpretation of her children’s skin tone.
Off-topic, but looking at the twitter feed on the side.
Huh, so Blowjob cat actually do exist.
Yo, I’m checking what time the comments are, maybe the US changed to winter time