I’m thinking either:
A) She believed her own BS about it being “a phase”.
B) They dropped him off prior to seeing any roommate, and couldn’t afford to get a single.
If I remember correctly, Ethan & Amber were still in damage control mode from Ethan coming out when they started University. His parents haven’t had time to change their mind about it, so me & Daniel the Human are going with “believe their own ‘phase’ BS”…
With “… You fuck her, Ethan. You fuck her as soon as you possibly can. Over and over and over.”
Nah, I’m pretty sure she hasn’t figured out it’s not a phase.
I think you have to get permission as a freshman to get a single–at least, that’s how it was at my old school. Carla is not a frosh, AND has a legit reason for getting a room to herself.
I doubt they had the option beforehand–and certainly not the ability to demand a single once they met Jacob.
Singles aren’t usually purchased. Carla was given a single by the school most likely. I was in a forced triple my first semester and paid the same amount as a double.
I believe it was an option at my college if you paid (my folks felt I should have the college “experience” so I didn’t have a single room until my third year)
Granted, this was, uh, SOME YEARS AGO but I feel like it’s there for anyone who wants to pay
Trans college student here: Trans (and disabled) students get first pick housing at a lot of schools, which is why we sometimes end up with singles and stuff as freshman. The same courtesy doesn’t apply to gay guys.
…also I think you’re ascribing a degree of selfless nobility unto her personality that doesn’t really bear out in her behavior, or words, or actions. 😛
I imagine people have their own definitions, but I believe traditionally you’re only Jewish if your mother was.
That speaks nothing about ethnicity though, which might be what you’re referring to.
From what I recall from hanging around the Jewish student center in college, the kinds of circles that care about mom’s side/dad’s side also care about you actually practicing. A Jewish mother isn’t going to help you much if you don’t practice Judaism.
And it’s not relevant to Dorothy’s case, but the pedant in me wants to point out that a kid with a Jewish father can always convert, and the life of a kid from a Jewish father who converts is probably not going to be that different from a kid from a Jewish mother who is just considered Jewish from the get go.
Well, she’s partly Jewish (don’t know which side of her parents), but she was raised areligiously (she herself stated she was an atheist) in this comic
*crosses fingers in hopes she finally understood how those damn html tags for links work
He turned his head slightly. But that said, seeing him turning his head doesn’t exactly mean should think “my son is attracted to this boy” just bc he looked at him.
1: She’s so hyper-sensitive about it (because… yeah, Ethan’s dad is probably gay, based on what little we’ve seen of him) that she overreacts to any apparent interest.
2: It’s done this way because it makes for a better gag.
I suspect she also figured it out because, well… Mike’s not moving, Ethan’s obviously not looking at anything else, and… Ethan’s not looking at anything else.
Possible, I just think that it makes more narrative sense for Ethan’s dad to be gay. Same height, same hair color, similar enough face that the big moustache is kinda needed for differentiation, and comparing all of those to Ethan’s mother, I don’t think it’s unfair to be reading parallels between Ethan and his dad.
It’s sorta like with yesterday’s strip: in reality, receipts for Korean BBQ doesn’t mean that much, it’s good and tasty food (and a good business meeting outing). In context of the strip and knowing it’s fiction, it indicates something very specific.
I feel like that’s like a thing, kinda. I know so many queer folks who had their parents, long before they had a clue, “subtly” emphasize certain things in the hopes of blunting them away from “that path”.
She can see her son is into Mike. (And then when we first met her, she had the absolute nerve to blame Ethan’s homosexuality on Amber being a bad girlfriend, wtf.)
Naomi sees Ethan smiling at Ethan, which triggers her fear that Ethan is gay. Thus, to prevent Ethan (and, more importantly, herself) from having to deal with that possibility, she takes him home.
Yeah, his hair doesn’t really translate to three-dimensional space very well. There was a figurine of Mike back in Shortpacked!’s heyday, and it basically just stuck out forward like the brim of a baseball hat.
Correct me if I’m missing any but with terrible parents, where the parents are still together the mother is the worse of the two? Generally speaking, that seems to be a pattern. The absolute worst fathers are divorced and widowed respectively. The worst after that did a total 180 and realised he could just… NOT be a douchecanoe.
I’m wondering if it’s to avoid the sort of discomfort that comes with the flashbacks, and knowing this is an abusive marriage. We know Stacy gets out, and I think it helps to avoid having quite the same level of constant overhanging negativity as would if she hadn’t. But that’s just my musings.
Oh, I forgot about Ruth’s grandfather. Was there mention of her grandmother at all? He’s not a father (to a character I mean) but he does take the role of one, so…
She’s never going to outpace Blaine, Ross, or Joyce’s parents. But unless I’m forgetting someone, she’s the worst of the non-demonic spawners. So this doesn’t change anything in terms of actual rank, it’s just her digging the hole a little deeper.
Hey, Joyce’s dad turned out to be fairly OK. Far from perfect, but genuinely working on being more open-minded. And quite supportive of his daughter even in the face of his own discomforts and incomprehensions.
You can be a terrible person and a good parent. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t think Joyce’s mom is abusive, or really that terrible to Joyce.
Perhaps not abusive, but yeah, she’s pretty terrible to Joyce.
Wasn’t while Joyce was the good little girl, doing everything right and never questioning what she was taught, but she certainly is now. Joyce was terrified of being dragged back from college to be “recentered”.
That’s what we have tiers for! That way we don’t have to point and say ‘the worst’. I think worst dad tier is currently Blaine, Ross, and Clint. Ross seemed to be pulling ahead but Blaine’s in the middle of a play, so we’ll see how that goes.
That’s… not uncommon in my experience. Not parents BEING one dimensional, but they definitely seem that way to most people only connected to them via their children (as we are). And assholes, well… yeah, that seems sadly common too, I think the ratio of the parents we’ve seen isn’t too harsh, I’m afraid. It’s just that we’re seeing it more clearly than most people do, being audiences and getting to see what the author chooses to share.
Basically true of any fiction. It requires conflict. Very few stories of parents who just raise kids well and send them off into the world. Lots of stories of traumatic childhoods. It’s a reverse survivorship bias situation. My life would make a terrible basis for a novel or webcomic. Lucky me.
Except for the ones who aren’t predictable, one dimensional assholes of course.
Stacy who’s in this very strip, for one example. Hank would probably be the best example – he surprised many of us by not being an asshole on his return and he’s gotten more time and development.
Most of them are fairly one dimensional because they’re mostly background characters – props for the main cast (or even props for secondary characters). Those we see more of tend to be the villains because that brings them into conflict with the protagonists.
I mean, in my experience, about 80% of my friends’ parents seem to be assholes. One-dimensional to me because I don’t see much more of them than how they treat my friends. (Actually, Naomi here is really reminding me of one of those mother’s.) So I mean… *shrugs*
I have a friend who’s mother (and friends) figured it out well before he did. The coming-out went something like this:
“Uh…mom…I think I might be…”
“Oh honey, that’s so great! We’ve been waiting for you to finally figure it out.”
now I’m wondering if there’s a reason she showed up early… and, like, she’s hanging out in the corner instead of with.. stacy? is she super-introverted too?
Or maybe an upside-down clear plastic container? (The ones prepackaged deli meats come in hold a single slice of cake almost perfectly. That way you don’t lose any frosting!)
If he went on the field trip, he took the school bus with the rest of the class. Maybe he catches a brief glimpse of the aftermath out the window as it passes the gas station, realizing Blaine’s car is there?
Or he reconvenes with Amber, Ethan, and Blaine at a separate area when he overhears about this incident from a monitor or teacher, hopefully not Ms. Phillips.
something about denial always makes me indescribably frustrated, if not angry. Naomi, just b.c you mentally go “say it ain’t so”, doesn’t mean people will actually say it ain’t so >:(
Personal headcanon – Naomi, in another part of the Walky-multiverse, had such a powerful time with Mike, that in every other universe, Naomi and Ethan (by genetic disposition) are attracted to Mike. That’s why she had to get Ethan out.
OK does Naomi have super powers like X-Ray Vision? Ethan’s head isn’t even turned and he is looking only with his eyes, so she would be seeing the back of his head. I mean I know parents have intuition but this is a damn super power at this point
His head turned very slightly. She has no need for proof or intuition when she has paranoia and the ability to jump to conclusions based on small twitches to guide her.
Still a bit reaching, but I will go with it, mostly because I don’t have a choice ^_^U.
Still though I am just thinking if just looking at another boy sets her off, she would have hated to be my mother. I just remember my friends and I used to get into fights and wrestle all the time.
She probably would have had a heart attack being my mom when I was this age. ^_^U.
I have some sympsthy for Naomi, actually. Until recently, homophobia was “normal”, meaning that parents had no idea how to react when discovering that their child was gay, except that it had to mean their child’s life would be miserable and full of fear. We know that denial is pointless, and even counter-productive, but Naomi doesn’t. This is a very difficult situation for her. Of course, she may also be afraid that her neighbours will judge her for raising a gay child. Ignorance of the cause of homosexuality has led to untold harm for many generations. Society is finally getting away from that, but it is abundantly clear there’s still plenty of homophobia still around.
I don’t recall Naomi being actively harmful to Ethan in previous strips. What she is doing here is reacting fearfully, which is a normal reaction for someone in her position.
That’s not “bordering on” harmful. It’s homophobic and downright abusive. That kind of shit can fuck a kid up for life (see: Ethan dating Joyce), and there’s no way that was an isolated incident.
“That kind of shit can fuck a kid up for life.”
I know people who were physically and sexually abused as kids. Someone’s mom driving them home early from a party is not going to fuck them up for life. This kind of exaggeration helps no one.
@Sigh: Did you click the link? It’s not just about the party. It’s about everything we’ve seen of Naomi so far put together. Her treatment of Ethan is clearly a major part of why he thought he needed to try dating Joyce—which is, indeed, fucked up.
As somebody who WAS abused as a kid, in nearly every category, let me kindly say… shut up. Naomi’s behavior toward her son IS clearly abusive (check her character tag for worse instances) and it obviously HAS fucked him up. Don’t speak for abuse survivors on what does and doesn’t count.
That comment wasn’t about the party. It was about Freshman Family Weekend when Naomi called Ethan a disappointment and told him to fuck Joyce’s brains out as soon as possible.
Today’s strip is (currently, and this will only advance with time) set in 2013 – as this flashback is set Five Years Ago From Now – so it’s not really an excuse.
And stuff like blaming Amber for being “so terrible at dating my son he started thinking he was a homosexual” and “confusing him”, or telling Ethan to “fuck [Joyce] as soon as you possibly can, over and over and over”, or calling Joyce “easy” to her face…yeah, no.
Furthermore, even if it were set in 2018, there’s still a large number of people who haven’t gotten the message that sexuality exists on a spectrum, and that if it’s consensual, it’s OK.
We can, of course, criticise their primitive right/wrong thinking. But they’re out there, and demonising them isn’t helpful. Some are indeed evil, but most are just trying to uphold outdated ideas.
We do need to point out to them when they are being actively harmful – this is something, like calling out harassment, that is still a relatively new and uncomfortable idea – but it is a change in progress. If the #METOO movement isn’t killed by lawyers (there are many who will try) society will change more in the next ten years than in the previous century.
No sympathy from me for the Naomis of the world. She might not have gotten the news about LGBTQ, but then, she never made any effort to. When she started having questions about her son’s sexuality, she had the opportunity to choose her son and help him navigate his brave new world. Instead she chose to keep a death grip on old bigotries and has harmed her son.
Ignorance is one thing. Deliberate ignorance is another.
It’s because it completely fails to acknowledge and dismisses the fact that bigotry is always awful no matter the time period, and also uses intent and (often willful) ignorance to excuse harm. Just like people were somehow making excuses for Toedad because “in his mind he’s just trying to rescue his daughter!!!”
No. They are both shitty parents because they care more about their own worldview and having control over their child than they do about their child’s happiness and wellbeing. Naomi is a shitty parent, and a shitty person, full stop.
And this constant call to be nicer to the bigots because “it’s soooo hard for them y’all :(” is ridiculous, because they are currently causing serious, horrific, LASTING harm to people through their bigotry, yet it’s the bigots’ feelings we’re supposed to care about? The only extent to which we should care about their feelings is to the extent that retaliating against them will cause backlash against the people they hurt. Not because oh, the poor homophobes.
(messed up my reply…whoops. here’s hoping this one is in the right place?)
The time period, though, is relevant to the original argument made in this sub-thread, that “Until recently, homophobia was “normal”, meaning that parents had no idea how to react when discovering that their child was gay…”
That might have been a relevant argument in, say, 1950. It’s not a relevant argument in 2013, because in 2013, the majority of people supported same sex marriage, believed homosexuality was acceptable, etc. The timing of the comic just makes the argument impossible. (Plus, Ethan’ Jewish, and support for homosexuality is higher on average among Jes than Gentiles, so her social group would probably be even more tilted pro-homosexuality.)
Wait- the Jewish community(ies) tend to be more LGBT-friendly than gentiles? That is not a thing I was even vaguely aware of. Not only quite cool but a good smack down for homophobic religious folk who use their religion as a cudgel.
Not entirely sure about the rest of the world (though I do remember that Tel Aviv was supposed to be pretty LGBT-friendly when I was there briefly, and IIRC Jewish religious law actually makes provisions for nonbinary genders), but in the US at least, the Jewish communities tend to be liberal-leaning. Just another reason why the likes of the alt-right hate us.
This has less to do with the actual religion of Judaism (though it’s not nothing mind you) and more to do with other circumstances. For example, NYC has the largest Jewish population in the entire country. As a result they tend to lean more liberal, but mostly because most urban populations tend to lean more liberal as a rule.
The reason NYC has such a large jewish population has a lot to do with how most jewish refugees from WWII ended up sailing to and going through customs at Ellis Island (the statue of liberty).
Religion tends to have not as much of an impact on overall worldview, honestly–the most contributing factor is almost always where you live. And being Jewish in Indiana, which probably doesn’t have a very large jewish community to begin with, is honestly just painting another target on your back.
THAT BEING SAID. The CULTURE of Judaism is one that leans towards being more liberal overall, considering rabbis are thought of as teachers rather than preachers, and the entire culture of the religion is to question everything and come to your own conclusions. It’s actually possible and somewhat common to be a jewish athiest, as a result. That doesn’t mean EVERYBODY practices the religion this way–Jewish people are just as capable of using their religion as a scapegoat for things, especially treatment of women–but it’s a tendency that’s there.
Yeah, especially in the current political situation, depending on where you live here – and doubly so if in red states – you might not only not face significant consequences for discrimination, you might be publicly lauded for your “brave stand by your beliefs” by people up to and including the Republicans in Congress and the White House.
Homophobes don’t deserve sympathy until/unless they stop being homophobes. If they haven’t gotten the message by now, it’s not by accident.
If their homophobia can be detected by means other than the person saying “I’m struggling to overcome by homophobia, but I’ll get there”, then they are almost certainly doing harm
Society doesn’t change on its own. People have to change it. It’s an active process and coddling bigots slows it down
“Some are indeed evil, but most are just trying to uphold outdated ideas.”
You mean most are just trying to uphold evil ideas. After all, the reason they became “outdated” was because more and more people realised how evil they were and how much harm they did.
Oh oh so she can tell what was up with Ethan Before he was dating Amber, but she Blames it all on her anyway. You know what Naomi can go eat the fatist of dicks for all I care.
So question, we’ve established that just about every character in the cast(referring to the students/faculty in the main story) has their ups and downs. Some of them seem fairly awful(Raidah, Mike, etc.) granted we’re learning about Mike and maybe Raidah will have a redemption arc, but what is it with so many of the parents being terrible?
I know Dina’s parents have been very cool, and Joyce’s dad tried to be more understanding but most of their parents seem to be off the deep end. Is it just e
In my experience there are plenty of parents out there on the “shitty” spectrum. The thing is, IRL, it can be hard to spot the ways in which your friends, partners etc HAVE shitty parents. (Not talking about parents who are your friends since you’re looking from their perspective, and are more likely to miss stuff.)
My parents were pretty cartoonishly terrible. Had a couple of friends growing up who were the same. Ranging from Linda’s to Blaine’s. Of the people I know now, as adults- of those who’ve talked enough of their folks- a lot of them were pretty bad.
And those tend to be the ones we hear about, the shitty parents. That seems realistic too. Because the good parents, they fade into the background, like gentle lovely music, not really noticed or truly appreciated. It’s the calamitous, the chaotic, the painful and abusive that stick out.
The parents in this comic and how they are portrayed are heartbreakingly realistic to me.
I second this comment. Honestly 80% of my friend group has moderately to severely shitty parents so DoA’s parents strike me as pretty realistic overall.
Part of it is having a cast made up from four other webcomics, each of which carried their own examples of bad parents just as they carried their own versions of other character types. The difference is that Willis made an effort to differentiate the various recurring characters so they’d be different while the parents all kept their old issues.
In addition to Dina’s parents and Joyce’s dad (which, granted, you already mentioned), there’s also Dorothy’s parents, Sierra’s parents, and Amber’s mom, of on-screen appearances off the top of my head. Counting off-screen characters, there’s also Carla’s parents, who in this ‘verse are not Joe and Rachel.
Wait… Joe and Rachel?! I am surprised that many of the couples of the original 4 comics are hinted here, but later we remember this is a different universe with different conditions, like Joyce disliking Walky, Danny barely meeting Sal, Amber distancing herself from Ethan and Mike’s group, Dina not dying, etc.
Also, on the topic of bad parents, Joyce’s mom wearing a MAGA hat is really uncomfortable.
Yeah, Joe and Rachel. Back in the Walkyverse they kick started Ultra Car’s AI, retrofit her into a couple existing cars, and built her the humanoid chassis DoA Carla’s modeled after.
Carla/Ultra-Car referred to herself as “trans-chassis” in that universe – when she had the body of a heavily-modified car, everyone (including the readers, for years) assumed she was male.
Here are my personal tiers of parents we have met or heard of from the main cast (as in, the folks on the main cast page or who had profiles in the books, plus Sierra because we met her folks).
Good Dads
– Hank (he started off bad but he’s recently entered the good dad league and is trying so I include him here).
– Jeremiah (Dorothy’s dad)
– Ruth’s dad (so far as we can tell, pre-mortem)
– Ryou (Dina’s dad)
– George (Mike’s dad)
– Carla’s dad
– Mark (Roz’s stepdad, from descriptions he seems inoffensive)
– Mary’s dad (apparently, according to word of Willis, he’s a very nice man but his daughter learned all the wrong lessons at church)
– Reno (Sierra’s dad)
Good Moms
– Deborah (Dorothy’s mom)
– Stacey (Amber’s mom)
– Bonnie (Becky’s mom, pre-mortem)
– Ruth’s mom (pre-mortem)
– Haruka (Dina’s mom)
– Harriet (Mike’s mom)
– Carla’s mom
– Roz’s mom (other than having lots of kids, they seem alright)
– Mary’s mom (apparently a very nice lady but her daughter learned all the wrong lessons at church)
– Falyn (Sierra’s mom)
Bad Dads
– Charles (Walkerton Dad)
– Billie’s dad
– Blaine (Amber’s dad)
– Ross (Toedad aka Becky’s dad)
– Randall (Danny’s dad)
– Clint (‘Sir’ aka Ruth’s grandpa)
– Saul (Ethan’s dad)
– Leslie’s dad
– Roz’s bio-dad (certain remarks made by Willis have indicated it is not good)
Bad Moms
– Carol (Joyce’s mom)
– Linda (Walkerton mom)
– Billie’s mom
– Sharon (Danny’s mom)
– Naomi (Ethan’s mom)
– Leslie’s mom
As for those not listed here:
– Sarah: We don’t know her parents. Her mom apparently sends her pictures over the phone, but she’s also said an adulthood rite of passage is pretending to love your parents, so I’m a bit concerned.
– Joe: I’m not sure where to list them. Joe seems very disillusioned with both of them, although Richard at least seems to be TRYING.
– Jacob: We don’t know enough to comment, though he wants to make them proud and seems to idolize his big brother.
– Marcie: We really haven’t seen or heard enough. The reason they didn’t seek medical care when she hurt her head was because she seemed okay and they’re in poverty (and possibly undocumented), not lack of caring. She seems to care about them but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
– We have no info on Malaya, Lucy, or Raidah’s parents at all.
So that’s 9 good dads, 10 good moms, 9 bad dads, 6 bad moms and at least 14 other parents who have yet to be determined.
Ruth’s dad in the other universe – and hinted at by Clint to have done the same in this one – cheated on Ruth’s mom (with Billie’s mom in the other ‘verse, no less). So I might switch him off the “good dads” team if it were me.
IIRC Willis said somewhere that Ruth’s dad (Richard “Dick” Lesse/Lessick) still cheated in this ‘verse, though not with Billie’s mom this time around – though I could be mistaken and misremembering/getting it mixed up with something else.
Huh, apparently I didn’t realize there was a more even split and actually seems to be weighted more heavily to good/decent parents. I guess we just see more of the awful ones, like someone else said, awful people seem make for better entertainment in storytelling so it makes sense. Thanks for the work in listing all the parents out by type, appreciate it.
Weird coincidence I just realized: One of the “bad dads” has the same name as a male blood relative of mine, who was the patriarch of one branch of a branch of the extended family. Said blood relative was a piece of shit in exactly the same way as that guy on the “bad dads” list, only worse. He’s dead, and that’s a good thing, because he can torment his kids no more. 32 years since his death, and his shadow still hangs over that side of the family.
Also, on the thing-I-just-realized front: A lot of the “bad parents” in my extended family (including my own) are worse than the bad parents in the bad parents lists, yet every time Willis depicts a bad parent, there’s a shitload of people who complain about how he’s too black and white or being unrealistic. Which is not something I’ve ever had a problem with about his writing. Ifff anything, he doesn’t go far enough with Blaine and Clint and Toedad.
Which… huh.
Stuff like that makes you realize your “asshole parent” gauge is on an entirely different calibration than other people’s.
See also: No, I don’t think it’s unrealistic for Toedad to threaten Becky’s life over highly-stigmatized sexual orientation in their subculture. Mine threatened to kill me over me over WAY less serious things. One time he found two sheets of his paperwork stapled together that couldn’t be stapled together, decided I was responsible, and put his fist through a wall and threatened to kill me when I wouldn’t admit it.
Seriously y’all. I don’t get people who think Willis is exaggerating shitty parents for comedic effect. At the fuck all. If anything, he’s toning them down for the sake of folks who were fortunate enough to get not-walking-dumpster-fire parents.
Also also: My social circle’s shitty-parent-to-good-parent ratio is about 3:1. And that’s lumping in the unknowns with the good parents. I don’t think Willis is overexaggerating the number of shitty parents out there any more than I think he’s overexaggerating the shittiness of the shitty parents.
We’re currently at slightly less than 50% awful parents, which is a proportion about in line with reality, at least as I’ve experienced it.
As others have said, we see more of the bad parents because the comic is about the kids, and the kids are at university, so the parents don’t usually show up unless there’s a problem (or unless they’re the problem).
Naomi’s plan is foolproof. All she has to do is keep Ethan away from all males for the next 15-20 years, until he surrenders to despair and repression grows out of this phase and gives her those all important grandchildren and can be safely disposed of in the MISTAKES pile.
Don’t worry, In the live action Disney remake there’ll be a 10 minute, superfluous scene explaining how the characters can see facial expressions from behind.
Poor Ethan. Being queer under a paranoid parent is a complete mindfuck. One of my close friends growing up was in the exact same position as Ethan here and yeah, it fucked her up for years and years.
Ugh. The really heartbreaking thing is, Ethan could have just been happy he has a new friend. His only other friend ever is Amber, so sexuality aside, of course he’d be smiling.
This just super highlights how lonely he and Amber are.
This is so sad…. maybe this is at least partially why Ethan has so few friends and why his social skills later in life are…lacking. Any time he even turns his head (which is the only thing his mom can see here) in the direction of a guy he’s removed from the situation. This is awful and I hate her even more now.
It’s because it completely fails to acknowledge and dismisses the fact that bigotry is always awful no matter the time period, and also uses intent and (often willful) ignorance to excuse harm. Just like people were somehow making excuses for Toedad because “in his mind he’s just trying to rescue his daughter!!!”
No. They are both shitty parents because they care more about their own worldview and having control over their child than they do about their child’s happiness and wellbeing. Naomi is a shitty parent, and a shitty person, full stop.
And this constant call to be nicer to the bigots because “it’s soooo hard for them y’all :(” is ridiculous, because they are currently causing serious, horrific, LASTING harm to people through their bigotry, yet it’s the bigots’ feelings we’re supposed to care about? The only extent to which we should care about their feelings is to the extent that retaliating against them will cause backlash against the people they hurt. Not because oh, the poor homophobes.
Did she take home Ethan because she figured he wanted to put the moves on Mike? And then did she buy him a toy because she felt guilty/stop him asking questions? Is that how Ethan developed his toy obsession? His mom bribing him to stop being gay?
Anyone else think there’s something going on in Ethan’s family that’s a little more complicated that straight-up senseless bigotry? I’m not excusing anything, but I think Naomi has a reason for acting like this. Most homophobes aren’t this paranoid. Most believe it’s a sinful choice (although I’m a little confused by Naomi’s thoughts on this, as she calls Ethan a disappointment, implying choice, but thinks Amber turned him gay, and seems to accept that’s part of who he is, so maybe not?), but if they think they raised their kids right, there’s no reason to be concerned that their kids would ever turn out ~that way~.
I mean, they’re 13 and Ethan smiled at another boy, and Naomi’s jumping straight to GAY BURN IT–that’s paranoia to the point that it’s personal. She’s homophobic for sure, don’t get me wrong, but I wonder if she’s paranoid because Ethan’s father is gay (and tried to “overcome” it like Ethan did with Joyce). We’ve already speculated this, since he told Ethan sex was “gross and scary” before you acquire a taste for it, but it kind of seems like Naomi knew this, and is paranoid about the “wrongness” affecting her son too.
I can fully believe Saul’s not into women (I could also see sex-repulsed asexual as an option, but really we have so little to work with.) And given he clearly thinks sex is completely unpleasant and an obstacle to be overcome, it’s not inconceivable Naomi knows so this theory of her freak out could be plausible.
Feeling the generational gap… when I was a kid, “let me get you our wifi password” was not a phrase uttered by the parents at a party, considering we didn’t even have a modem until I was 12.
This strip to remind you that Blaine is far from being the only utterly shitty DoA parent, just in case his recent slew of appearances had made you forget.
I think I figured out why Amber and Ethan still hang out with him until college. His parents are actually nice and decent people. Stacy is perfectly fine but I get the feeling she gets overwhelmed after the stabbing incident. Mike’s parents in shortpacked were, at worst, a little overbearing. Compared to Ethan’s homophobic parents and an overwhelmed Stacy they probably provided a very safe place to just hang out without worry.
Naomi’s husband thinks sex with her is gross but you can get used to it. This is the future she wants her son to have.
Does she blame herself for the state of her marriage, like she blames Amber for not saving Ethan from being gay? Does she blame Amber because she was able (at great personal cost) able to build a marriage despite her husband finding sex with her gross?
Seriously. I feel a tiny bit bad for the older Siegals in that clearly they feel culturally pressured into this arrangement that isn’t working (Saul more so than Naomi – we know it affects him, it’s possible but not explicitly confirmed it affects her), but it’s overwhelmed by the fact that they try and pressure their son right into another one. Ugh.
can we all for just a moment take into account how good her eyesight is? she could literally see her son smiling at whatshisname from behind him. bongo saw through his head to his face and could determine his expression.
I know right, she saw that tiny little rotation of Ethan’s head, and knew exactly what was going on . It’s too bad she could not use this power for something not terrible
What if she just really had to use the bathroom but was too shy to ask?
Or maybe she recognized Mike as “that kid she accepted a nickel from in an alternate timeline.”
I am now so far removed from my adolescence that it took reading other people’s comments realize HOLY SHIT THIS WAS MY MOM, AND SHE FUCKED ME UP SO BAD.
On the one hand there’s something pleasing about being so removed from that that it no longer triggers me in any way, but on the other I can’t help but think that this is how people reach the state of no longer remembering what it’s like to be young, and being shitty to kids.
It took me a minute to realize why this parent interaction was so weird for me. Instead of offering to chat or have coffee or anything, they just give her the wifi password. I mean, maybe I’m reading into this a lot, but that seems to speak to something larger.
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well, now I’m surprised Naomi didn’t spring for Ethan to have a single like Carla
I mean, did she SEE his roommate…?
I’m thinking either:
A) She believed her own BS about it being “a phase”.
B) They dropped him off prior to seeing any roommate, and couldn’t afford to get a single.
Or they’ve figured out, its not a phase, and he’s 18.
If I remember correctly, Ethan & Amber were still in damage control mode from Ethan coming out when they started University. His parents haven’t had time to change their mind about it, so me & Daniel the Human are going with “believe their own ‘phase’ BS”…
You only became a disappointment.
With “… You fuck her, Ethan. You fuck her as soon as you possibly can. Over and over and over.”
Nah, I’m pretty sure she hasn’t figured out it’s not a phase.
I think you have to get permission as a freshman to get a single–at least, that’s how it was at my old school. Carla is not a frosh, AND has a legit reason for getting a room to herself.
I doubt they had the option beforehand–and certainly not the ability to demand a single once they met Jacob.
Singles aren’t usually purchased. Carla was given a single by the school most likely. I was in a forced triple my first semester and paid the same amount as a double.
I believe it was an option at my college if you paid (my folks felt I should have the college “experience” so I didn’t have a single room until my third year)
Granted, this was, uh, SOME YEARS AGO but I feel like it’s there for anyone who wants to pay
Trans college student here: Trans (and disabled) students get first pick housing at a lot of schools, which is why we sometimes end up with singles and stuff as freshman. The same courtesy doesn’t apply to gay guys.
I don’t think Carla bought her way into a single room. It’s because she’s trans.
Her dad’s also looooaded, so why not both?
I feel like Carla doesn’t like getting special treatment.
I bet she loves having her own room though.
…also I think you’re ascribing a degree of selfless nobility unto her personality that doesn’t really bear out in her behavior, or words, or actions. 😛
I’ll bet she loves having her own room, wishes she could share one like everyone else and is terrified of what might happen if she did. All at once.
oh great it’s naomi
everyone’s favorite jewish mother
Hey now, the fact that she’s terrible has nothing to do with being Jewish.
She’s the only Jewish mother, she won that award by default.
Because Joe’s mother hasn’t shown up yet in Dumbing of Age?
Well, Joe’s mother might show up yet.
What about Dorothy? Or is she Jewish on her dad’s side?
I imagine people have their own definitions, but I believe traditionally you’re only Jewish if your mother was.
That speaks nothing about ethnicity though, which might be what you’re referring to.
From what I recall from hanging around the Jewish student center in college, the kinds of circles that care about mom’s side/dad’s side also care about you actually practicing. A Jewish mother isn’t going to help you much if you don’t practice Judaism.
And it’s not relevant to Dorothy’s case, but the pedant in me wants to point out that a kid with a Jewish father can always convert, and the life of a kid from a Jewish father who converts is probably not going to be that different from a kid from a Jewish mother who is just considered Jewish from the get go.
Well, she’s partly Jewish (don’t know which side of her parents), but she was raised areligiously (she herself stated she was an atheist) in this comic
*crosses fingers in hopes she finally understood how those damn html tags for links work
<a href="http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/catholic/"Jewish on her dad’s side.
Or apparently one of her dad’s parents.
There’s another reference to Irish Catholic, but I don’t know if that’s all her Catholic grandparents or just one side.
Jewish on her dad’s side
Must close tags.
Why would Ethan need cake when he’s got all this eye candy?
He can have his cake and eat it, later.
How do you see his eyes Naomi?
He turned his head slightly. But that said, seeing him turning his head doesn’t exactly mean should think “my son is attracted to this boy” just bc he looked at him.
Seems like one of three things:
1: She’s so hyper-sensitive about it (because… yeah, Ethan’s dad is probably gay, based on what little we’ve seen of him) that she overreacts to any apparent interest.
2: It’s done this way because it makes for a better gag.
3: Both :D.
I suspect she also figured it out because, well… Mike’s not moving, Ethan’s obviously not looking at anything else, and… Ethan’s not looking at anything else.
Link for the parenthetical statement, for those wondering:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/blunt/
His specific wording makes me think he could also have been partially (Or fully) asexual.
Possible, I just think that it makes more narrative sense for Ethan’s dad to be gay. Same height, same hair color, similar enough face that the big moustache is kinda needed for differentiation, and comparing all of those to Ethan’s mother, I don’t think it’s unfair to be reading parallels between Ethan and his dad.
It’s sorta like with yesterday’s strip: in reality, receipts for Korean BBQ doesn’t mean that much, it’s good and tasty food (and a good business meeting outing). In context of the strip and knowing it’s fiction, it indicates something very specific.
She has Darkseid’s bending eyesight
… Someone please explain this to me.
She’s upset Ethan is checking out Mike, so she made him wrap up his cake to go so she could get him out of there.
Naomi’s terrified of Ethan being gay. She saw Ethan making side eyes at Mike (somehow).
Also things have been signalling to her being a controlling mom like Linda (coming to pick up Ethan early).
The “somehow” is Ethan turning his head but that could mean just about anything, honestly. Naomi is just paranoid, most likely
Naomi is a homophobe and Etahn is v gay
She can detect THE GAY in Ethan.
Like she has some sort of gayness radar…
I feel like that’s like a thing, kinda. I know so many queer folks who had their parents, long before they had a clue, “subtly” emphasize certain things in the hopes of blunting them away from “that path”.
A fair few were about as subtle as Naomi here.
Her son won’t grow up to be a doctor, he’ll grow up to be TEH GAYZ….
Maybe Doctor TEH GAYZ.
My interpretation is that Naomi is freaking because Ethan seems to be attracted to Mike. Judging from other comments, I am not alone in this.
She can see her son is into Mike. (And then when we first met her, she had the absolute nerve to blame Ethan’s homosexuality on Amber being a bad girlfriend, wtf.)
oh. wow. not many comics in that tag, and wow yeah she sure is homophobic.
Naomi sees Ethan smiling at Ethan, which triggers her fear that Ethan is gay. Thus, to prevent Ethan (and, more importantly, herself) from having to deal with that possibility, she takes him home.
She is horrified that Ethan has cake, because she dreams of a gluten free household.
Damn it, Naomi! Now Ethan’s gonna think he did something wrong!
I think he’s just gonna be very confused, and she’s not gonna explain it.
The truth is that Naomi has a crippling fear of blondes and needed to exit as soon as she saw Mike’s hair.
Mikes hair kinda scares me too. I mean, it’s like one of those alien geometries that drive Lovecraft protagonists mad.
I mean, you’re a Time Lord, I figured you’d be all about that alien geometry.
It’s always pointing to the right, no matter where you stand.
It was pointing the opposite direction just last strip.
but if you had a full view of his hair would it just be a circle?
Yeah, his hair doesn’t really translate to three-dimensional space very well. There was a figurine of Mike back in Shortpacked!’s heyday, and it basically just stuck out forward like the brim of a baseball hat.
So that leaves Amber and Mike alone.
Oh dear.
Also, Naomi has absolutely zero chill. I wonder if this isn’t the first time this has happened and that’s why she came by early.
I think she rather came early to use the wifi. Meeting another boy at Amber’s had zero likelihood until now.
oh hi Naomi
trying to get an early jump on being just awful, i see
There’s a reason we never see strips about Dorothy’s parents in the past, huh.
…Dorothy’s parents seem pretty chill…
“Dorothy it’s really all right if you don’t become President and Secretary of the UN.”
“WHY WON’T YOU SUPPORT MY DREAMS” *sound of doors slamming*
Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
I forgot. I don’t fucking like Naomi.
Naomi reminds us: it’s not just the DOA dads. In fact, I think we see her BS BEFORE most of the Bad Dads.
I mean, Linda and Carol also have their stakes in the ring.
Correct me if I’m missing any but with terrible parents, where the parents are still together the mother is the worse of the two? Generally speaking, that seems to be a pattern. The absolute worst fathers are divorced and widowed respectively. The worst after that did a total 180 and realised he could just… NOT be a douchecanoe.
I’m wondering if it’s to avoid the sort of discomfort that comes with the flashbacks, and knowing this is an abusive marriage. We know Stacy gets out, and I think it helps to avoid having quite the same level of constant overhanging negativity as would if she hadn’t. But that’s just my musings.
Oh, I forgot about Ruth’s grandfather. Was there mention of her grandmother at all? He’s not a father (to a character I mean) but he does take the role of one, so…
Wonder how far down the adjusted-for-appearances-F-Bomb-Chart this single appearance is going to drop Naomi?
She’s never going to outpace Blaine, Ross, or Joyce’s parents. But unless I’m forgetting someone, she’s the worst of the non-demonic spawners. So this doesn’t change anything in terms of actual rank, it’s just her digging the hole a little deeper.
Think Blaine’s only got a couple of F-Bombs down on the chart himself, and pretty sure none of the others you mentioned are even on the chart (yet).
Yeah, you two are talking about different things.
Hey, Joyce’s dad turned out to be fairly OK. Far from perfect, but genuinely working on being more open-minded. And quite supportive of his daughter even in the face of his own discomforts and incomprehensions.
You can be a terrible person and a good parent. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t think Joyce’s mom is abusive, or really that terrible to Joyce.
Perhaps not abusive, but yeah, she’s pretty terrible to Joyce.
Wasn’t while Joyce was the good little girl, doing everything right and never questioning what she was taught, but she certainly is now. Joyce was terrified of being dragged back from college to be “recentered”.
awww but did Ethan get a piece of the cake
(screw you naomi)
It’s in his lap in the car.
I think.
In his hands*
Whatever
I assume that’s what he’s holding.
oh whoop, you’re right, I thought that was a transformer or something
It’s Battertron, the transforming cake
Effeminate AND suggestive!
How did Naomi allow that?
Naomi no
I promise you were still in the running for worst mom
You didn’t need to make another play
She has very little competition! Lots of terrible dads, few awful moms!
And this still isn’t going to push her over Carol, probably.
Mostly I just feel sorry for Amber here. And Ethan, too, but I don’t think he’d really internalize this for a long while.
She’s fighting with Carol and Linda currently. Sharon’s lurking there somewhere too but hasn’t quite hit top ranks yet.
Yeah, I think Naomi’s going to have a hard time pushing past Carol and Linda, quite frankly.
yaaaaay worst tier list of all tiiiiiime hooray
That’s what we have tiers for! That way we don’t have to point and say ‘the worst’. I think worst dad tier is currently Blaine, Ross, and Clint. Ross seemed to be pulling ahead but Blaine’s in the middle of a play, so we’ll see how that goes.
There was debate among the referees about Clint, but they decided to grant him honorary dad status, just so he could have the place he deserved.
He’s their legal guardian, it counts. 😛
We also have Billie’s (currently unnamed) mother.
She’s lurking, like Sharon. Hasn’t made a play for the top title yet.
With the kind of involvement she’s demonstrated so far, she must be shooting for shooting for Miss Indifference 20-this-year.
You’ve got to admit, “I don’t even care if I make the Worst Mom list” is an interesting strategy.
It’s a freaking David Willis strip, nearly all of the parents are predictable and one dimensional assholes.
That’s… not uncommon in my experience. Not parents BEING one dimensional, but they definitely seem that way to most people only connected to them via their children (as we are). And assholes, well… yeah, that seems sadly common too, I think the ratio of the parents we’ve seen isn’t too harsh, I’m afraid. It’s just that we’re seeing it more clearly than most people do, being audiences and getting to see what the author chooses to share.
Basically true of any fiction. It requires conflict. Very few stories of parents who just raise kids well and send them off into the world. Lots of stories of traumatic childhoods. It’s a reverse survivorship bias situation. My life would make a terrible basis for a novel or webcomic. Lucky me.
Except for the ones who aren’t predictable, one dimensional assholes of course.
Stacy who’s in this very strip, for one example. Hank would probably be the best example – he surprised many of us by not being an asshole on his return and he’s gotten more time and development.
Most of them are fairly one dimensional because they’re mostly background characters – props for the main cast (or even props for secondary characters). Those we see more of tend to be the villains because that brings them into conflict with the protagonists.
And as listed below, the number of “good” parents in the comic comes out to around half of the ones we’be seen/heard about.
I mean, in my experience, about 80% of my friends’ parents seem to be assholes. One-dimensional to me because I don’t see much more of them than how they treat my friends. (Actually, Naomi here is really reminding me of one of those mother’s.) So I mean… *shrugs*
This is the second time this week you’ve commented on how horribly lazy you find the writing, at least. What are you getting out of this comic?
*plays The Average White Band’s “Cut The Cake” on the Bluetooth speakers*
It’s common for parents to “know”, early on, I guess.
I have a friend who’s mother (and friends) figured it out well before he did. The coming-out went something like this:
“Uh…mom…I think I might be…”
“Oh honey, that’s so great! We’ve been waiting for you to finally figure it out.”
now I’m wondering if there’s a reason she showed up early… and, like, she’s hanging out in the corner instead of with.. stacy? is she super-introverted too?
nevermind, I checked the tags. fuck naomi.
…also I want that monkey master shirt. wiiilliiiis! why is that not in the store? 🙂
Hard for me to tell, but is that a slice of cake covered in plastic wrap?
I can’t really tell either but I choose to believe yes
Or maybe an upside-down clear plastic container? (The ones prepackaged deli meats come in hold a single slice of cake almost perfectly. That way you don’t lose any frosting!)
It’s been so long since we’ve seen her that I completely forgot Naomi was the name of Ethan’s mom.
And now after lookin through the strips she’s in I remembered why I don’t like Naomi.
Good call. Which is also a good reminder that Ethan’s dad is also clearly not sexually attracted to women.
Dammit, I was hoping we were going to end this arc by closing the gas station loop.
It might not stop there. It could go beyond that since the flashbacks are from Mike’s POV, to see the effects of the incident on him.
If he went on the field trip, he took the school bus with the rest of the class. Maybe he catches a brief glimpse of the aftermath out the window as it passes the gas station, realizing Blaine’s car is there?
Or he reconvenes with Amber, Ethan, and Blaine at a separate area when he overhears about this incident from a monitor or teacher, hopefully not Ms. Phillips.
something about denial always makes me indescribably frustrated, if not angry. Naomi, just b.c you mentally go “say it ain’t so”, doesn’t mean people will actually say it ain’t so >:(
For me it’s not simply the fact that she’s in denial so much as her imposing that upon her son. That crosses from ‘frustrating’ to despicable.
Personal headcanon – Naomi, in another part of the Walky-multiverse, had such a powerful time with Mike, that in every other universe, Naomi and Ethan (by genetic disposition) are attracted to Mike. That’s why she had to get Ethan out.
OK does Naomi have super powers like X-Ray Vision? Ethan’s head isn’t even turned and he is looking only with his eyes, so she would be seeing the back of his head. I mean I know parents have intuition but this is a damn super power at this point
Look at his nose – he’s turning his head a bit.
His head turned very slightly. She has no need for proof or intuition when she has paranoia and the ability to jump to conclusions based on small twitches to guide her.
Still a bit reaching, but I will go with it, mostly because I don’t have a choice ^_^U.
Still though I am just thinking if just looking at another boy sets her off, she would have hated to be my mother. I just remember my friends and I used to get into fights and wrestle all the time.
She probably would have had a heart attack being my mom when I was this age. ^_^U.
Well screw you Naomi.
I have some sympsthy for Naomi, actually. Until recently, homophobia was “normal”, meaning that parents had no idea how to react when discovering that their child was gay, except that it had to mean their child’s life would be miserable and full of fear. We know that denial is pointless, and even counter-productive, but Naomi doesn’t. This is a very difficult situation for her. Of course, she may also be afraid that her neighbours will judge her for raising a gay child. Ignorance of the cause of homosexuality has led to untold harm for many generations. Society is finally getting away from that, but it is abundantly clear there’s still plenty of homophobia still around.
I don’t recall Naomi being actively harmful to Ethan in previous strips. What she is doing here is reacting fearfully, which is a normal reaction for someone in her position.
go read those previous strips. http://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/naomi/
Yeah, I was just going to drop this one in particular here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/placate/
Yeah, OK, her pushiness goes beyond simple denial. That is unpleasant, bordering on harmful. Still not going to label her as evil, though.
That’s not “bordering on” harmful. It’s homophobic and downright abusive. That kind of shit can fuck a kid up for life (see: Ethan dating Joyce), and there’s no way that was an isolated incident.
Not to mention, she’s trying to place very unwanted pressure on Ethan’s girlfriend. So wack.
“That kind of shit can fuck a kid up for life.”
I know people who were physically and sexually abused as kids. Someone’s mom driving them home early from a party is not going to fuck them up for life. This kind of exaggeration helps no one.
@Sigh: Did you click the link? It’s not just about the party. It’s about everything we’ve seen of Naomi so far put together. Her treatment of Ethan is clearly a major part of why he thought he needed to try dating Joyce—which is, indeed, fucked up.
As somebody who WAS abused as a kid, in nearly every category, let me kindly say… shut up. Naomi’s behavior toward her son IS clearly abusive (check her character tag for worse instances) and it obviously HAS fucked him up. Don’t speak for abuse survivors on what does and doesn’t count.
That comment wasn’t about the party. It was about Freshman Family Weekend when Naomi called Ethan a disappointment and told him to fuck Joyce’s brains out as soon as possible.
Today’s strip is (currently, and this will only advance with time) set in 2013 – as this flashback is set Five Years Ago From Now – so it’s not really an excuse.
And stuff like blaming Amber for being “so terrible at dating my son he started thinking he was a homosexual” and “confusing him”, or telling Ethan to “fuck [Joyce] as soon as you possibly can, over and over and over”, or calling Joyce “easy” to her face…yeah, no.
Hmm. I was focussing on her treatment of Ethan. Her treatment of Joyce and Amber suggests some internalised misogyny.
Furthermore, even if it were set in 2018, there’s still a large number of people who haven’t gotten the message that sexuality exists on a spectrum, and that if it’s consensual, it’s OK.
We can, of course, criticise their primitive right/wrong thinking. But they’re out there, and demonising them isn’t helpful. Some are indeed evil, but most are just trying to uphold outdated ideas.
We do need to point out to them when they are being actively harmful – this is something, like calling out harassment, that is still a relatively new and uncomfortable idea – but it is a change in progress. If the #METOO movement isn’t killed by lawyers (there are many who will try) society will change more in the next ten years than in the previous century.
No sympathy from me for the Naomis of the world. She might not have gotten the news about LGBTQ, but then, she never made any effort to. When she started having questions about her son’s sexuality, she had the opportunity to choose her son and help him navigate his brave new world. Instead she chose to keep a death grip on old bigotries and has harmed her son.
Ignorance is one thing. Deliberate ignorance is another.
something about this argument really unsettles me and I can’t quite put my finger on it…
ah, right, I think you’ve slipped into tone policing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing
It’s because it completely fails to acknowledge and dismisses the fact that bigotry is always awful no matter the time period, and also uses intent and (often willful) ignorance to excuse harm. Just like people were somehow making excuses for Toedad because “in his mind he’s just trying to rescue his daughter!!!”
No. They are both shitty parents because they care more about their own worldview and having control over their child than they do about their child’s happiness and wellbeing. Naomi is a shitty parent, and a shitty person, full stop.
And this constant call to be nicer to the bigots because “it’s soooo hard for them y’all :(” is ridiculous, because they are currently causing serious, horrific, LASTING harm to people through their bigotry, yet it’s the bigots’ feelings we’re supposed to care about? The only extent to which we should care about their feelings is to the extent that retaliating against them will cause backlash against the people they hurt. Not because oh, the poor homophobes.
(messed up my reply…whoops. here’s hoping this one is in the right place?)
The time period, though, is relevant to the original argument made in this sub-thread, that “Until recently, homophobia was “normal”, meaning that parents had no idea how to react when discovering that their child was gay…”
That might have been a relevant argument in, say, 1950. It’s not a relevant argument in 2013, because in 2013, the majority of people supported same sex marriage, believed homosexuality was acceptable, etc. The timing of the comic just makes the argument impossible. (Plus, Ethan’ Jewish, and support for homosexuality is higher on average among Jes than Gentiles, so her social group would probably be even more tilted pro-homosexuality.)
Wait- the Jewish community(ies) tend to be more LGBT-friendly than gentiles? That is not a thing I was even vaguely aware of. Not only quite cool but a good smack down for homophobic religious folk who use their religion as a cudgel.
Not entirely sure about the rest of the world (though I do remember that Tel Aviv was supposed to be pretty LGBT-friendly when I was there briefly, and IIRC Jewish religious law actually makes provisions for nonbinary genders), but in the US at least, the Jewish communities tend to be liberal-leaning. Just another reason why the likes of the alt-right hate us.
This has less to do with the actual religion of Judaism (though it’s not nothing mind you) and more to do with other circumstances. For example, NYC has the largest Jewish population in the entire country. As a result they tend to lean more liberal, but mostly because most urban populations tend to lean more liberal as a rule.
The reason NYC has such a large jewish population has a lot to do with how most jewish refugees from WWII ended up sailing to and going through customs at Ellis Island (the statue of liberty).
Religion tends to have not as much of an impact on overall worldview, honestly–the most contributing factor is almost always where you live. And being Jewish in Indiana, which probably doesn’t have a very large jewish community to begin with, is honestly just painting another target on your back.
THAT BEING SAID. The CULTURE of Judaism is one that leans towards being more liberal overall, considering rabbis are thought of as teachers rather than preachers, and the entire culture of the religion is to question everything and come to your own conclusions. It’s actually possible and somewhat common to be a jewish athiest, as a result. That doesn’t mean EVERYBODY practices the religion this way–Jewish people are just as capable of using their religion as a scapegoat for things, especially treatment of women–but it’s a tendency that’s there.
I thought Bathymeus was making an argument for consistently calling out bad behaviour, which thay acknowlegde to be hard work and scary.
That doesn’t sound like being nicer to the bigots to me, just reacting to them in a more effective manner.
But I live in Northern Europe, where discriminating against LGBTQ people is generally frowned upon, and people who try it suffer social consequences.
Yeah, especially in the current political situation, depending on where you live here – and doubly so if in red states – you might not only not face significant consequences for discrimination, you might be publicly lauded for your “brave stand by your beliefs” by people up to and including the Republicans in Congress and the White House.
See: pretty much the last two years.
Homophobes don’t deserve sympathy until/unless they stop being homophobes. If they haven’t gotten the message by now, it’s not by accident.
If their homophobia can be detected by means other than the person saying “I’m struggling to overcome by homophobia, but I’ll get there”, then they are almost certainly doing harm
Society doesn’t change on its own. People have to change it. It’s an active process and coddling bigots slows it down
Social consequences for bigotry and misogyny are one of the most effective ways to make change happen. That’s why they fight against it so hard
“Some are indeed evil, but most are just trying to uphold outdated ideas.”
You mean most are just trying to uphold evil ideas. After all, the reason they became “outdated” was because more and more people realised how evil they were and how much harm they did.
I think you’re underselling how much social change occurred in the last 100 years.
Oh oh so she can tell what was up with Ethan Before he was dating Amber, but she Blames it all on her anyway. You know what Naomi can go eat the fatist of dicks for all I care.
Leave the Fatist of Dicks alone. He predicks the fuchode with his knuckle boners for those who need wang guidance.
So question, we’ve established that just about every character in the cast(referring to the students/faculty in the main story) has their ups and downs. Some of them seem fairly awful(Raidah, Mike, etc.) granted we’re learning about Mike and maybe Raidah will have a redemption arc, but what is it with so many of the parents being terrible?
I know Dina’s parents have been very cool, and Joyce’s dad tried to be more understanding but most of their parents seem to be off the deep end. Is it just e
Is it just me?* apparently I didn’t finish typing
In my experience there are plenty of parents out there on the “shitty” spectrum. The thing is, IRL, it can be hard to spot the ways in which your friends, partners etc HAVE shitty parents. (Not talking about parents who are your friends since you’re looking from their perspective, and are more likely to miss stuff.)
My parents were pretty cartoonishly terrible. Had a couple of friends growing up who were the same. Ranging from Linda’s to Blaine’s. Of the people I know now, as adults- of those who’ve talked enough of their folks- a lot of them were pretty bad.
And those tend to be the ones we hear about, the shitty parents. That seems realistic too. Because the good parents, they fade into the background, like gentle lovely music, not really noticed or truly appreciated. It’s the calamitous, the chaotic, the painful and abusive that stick out.
The parents in this comic and how they are portrayed are heartbreakingly realistic to me.
I second this comment. Honestly 80% of my friend group has moderately to severely shitty parents so DoA’s parents strike me as pretty realistic overall.
Part of it is having a cast made up from four other webcomics, each of which carried their own examples of bad parents just as they carried their own versions of other character types. The difference is that Willis made an effort to differentiate the various recurring characters so they’d be different while the parents all kept their old issues.
In addition to Dina’s parents and Joyce’s dad (which, granted, you already mentioned), there’s also Dorothy’s parents, Sierra’s parents, and Amber’s mom, of on-screen appearances off the top of my head. Counting off-screen characters, there’s also Carla’s parents, who in this ‘verse are not Joe and Rachel.
Wait… Joe and Rachel?! I am surprised that many of the couples of the original 4 comics are hinted here, but later we remember this is a different universe with different conditions, like Joyce disliking Walky, Danny barely meeting Sal, Amber distancing herself from Ethan and Mike’s group, Dina not dying, etc.
Also, on the topic of bad parents, Joyce’s mom wearing a MAGA hat is really uncomfortable.
Yeah, Joe and Rachel. Back in the Walkyverse they kick started Ultra Car’s AI, retrofit her into a couple existing cars, and built her the humanoid chassis DoA Carla’s modeled after.
Carla/Ultra-Car referred to herself as “trans-chassis” in that universe – when she had the body of a heavily-modified car, everyone (including the readers, for years) assumed she was male.
If they aren’t terrible, they tend not to merit inclusion in the story except on rare occasions, since they’re just supporting characters.
Good people rarely make for good stories.
Here are my personal tiers of parents we have met or heard of from the main cast (as in, the folks on the main cast page or who had profiles in the books, plus Sierra because we met her folks).
Good Dads
– Hank (he started off bad but he’s recently entered the good dad league and is trying so I include him here).
– Jeremiah (Dorothy’s dad)
– Ruth’s dad (so far as we can tell, pre-mortem)
– Ryou (Dina’s dad)
– George (Mike’s dad)
– Carla’s dad
– Mark (Roz’s stepdad, from descriptions he seems inoffensive)
– Mary’s dad (apparently, according to word of Willis, he’s a very nice man but his daughter learned all the wrong lessons at church)
– Reno (Sierra’s dad)
Good Moms
– Deborah (Dorothy’s mom)
– Stacey (Amber’s mom)
– Bonnie (Becky’s mom, pre-mortem)
– Ruth’s mom (pre-mortem)
– Haruka (Dina’s mom)
– Harriet (Mike’s mom)
– Carla’s mom
– Roz’s mom (other than having lots of kids, they seem alright)
– Mary’s mom (apparently a very nice lady but her daughter learned all the wrong lessons at church)
– Falyn (Sierra’s mom)
Bad Dads
– Charles (Walkerton Dad)
– Billie’s dad
– Blaine (Amber’s dad)
– Ross (Toedad aka Becky’s dad)
– Randall (Danny’s dad)
– Clint (‘Sir’ aka Ruth’s grandpa)
– Saul (Ethan’s dad)
– Leslie’s dad
– Roz’s bio-dad (certain remarks made by Willis have indicated it is not good)
Bad Moms
– Carol (Joyce’s mom)
– Linda (Walkerton mom)
– Billie’s mom
– Sharon (Danny’s mom)
– Naomi (Ethan’s mom)
– Leslie’s mom
As for those not listed here:
– Sarah: We don’t know her parents. Her mom apparently sends her pictures over the phone, but she’s also said an adulthood rite of passage is pretending to love your parents, so I’m a bit concerned.
– Joe: I’m not sure where to list them. Joe seems very disillusioned with both of them, although Richard at least seems to be TRYING.
– Jacob: We don’t know enough to comment, though he wants to make them proud and seems to idolize his big brother.
– Marcie: We really haven’t seen or heard enough. The reason they didn’t seek medical care when she hurt her head was because she seemed okay and they’re in poverty (and possibly undocumented), not lack of caring. She seems to care about them but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
– We have no info on Malaya, Lucy, or Raidah’s parents at all.
So that’s 9 good dads, 10 good moms, 9 bad dads, 6 bad moms and at least 14 other parents who have yet to be determined.
Ruth’s dad in the other universe – and hinted at by Clint to have done the same in this one – cheated on Ruth’s mom (with Billie’s mom in the other ‘verse, no less). So I might switch him off the “good dads” team if it were me.
I don’t trust Clint’s word, and Ruth seems to like him, so I’ve kept him there for now. I can always change my ranks.
IIRC Willis said somewhere that Ruth’s dad (Richard “Dick” Lesse/Lessick) still cheated in this ‘verse, though not with Billie’s mom this time around – though I could be mistaken and misremembering/getting it mixed up with something else.
It’s possible, but if he has I can’t find it.
Huh, apparently I didn’t realize there was a more even split and actually seems to be weighted more heavily to good/decent parents. I guess we just see more of the awful ones, like someone else said, awful people seem make for better entertainment in storytelling so it makes sense. Thanks for the work in listing all the parents out by type, appreciate it.
you’re welcome! I like lists. And sometimes it’s a good reminder for me too.
Lists are ok, but don’t get too into charts. We all know where that leads.
Trying to figure out how to permalink your comment so I can keep it for reference…
My html level is ‘stinky baby’ so I can’t help there, I’m afraid.
Maybe just link to this strip instead?
Take a first-level comment that has a perma-link-feature (#-symbol). Copy URL of perma-link into text-editor.
Copy URL from Reply-link of comment of choice into text-editor.
Replace number from URL1 with number from URL2.
Voila, perma-link to comment of choice!
I tried to do that, but it wouldn’t let me post. It was weird.
One of Sarah’s grandmas apparently bought her ‘Other Jacob’ as a gift, so I’d put her in the ‘good’ list.
Her grandma isn’t her legal guardian though so she doesn’t get listed (Clint did because he had custody of Ruth).
Also, Yuri should be under the bad (step)mom category.
Weird coincidence I just realized: One of the “bad dads” has the same name as a male blood relative of mine, who was the patriarch of one branch of a branch of the extended family. Said blood relative was a piece of shit in exactly the same way as that guy on the “bad dads” list, only worse. He’s dead, and that’s a good thing, because he can torment his kids no more. 32 years since his death, and his shadow still hangs over that side of the family.
Also, on the thing-I-just-realized front: A lot of the “bad parents” in my extended family (including my own) are worse than the bad parents in the bad parents lists, yet every time Willis depicts a bad parent, there’s a shitload of people who complain about how he’s too black and white or being unrealistic. Which is not something I’ve ever had a problem with about his writing. Ifff anything, he doesn’t go far enough with Blaine and Clint and Toedad.
Which… huh.
Stuff like that makes you realize your “asshole parent” gauge is on an entirely different calibration than other people’s.
See also: No, I don’t think it’s unrealistic for Toedad to threaten Becky’s life over highly-stigmatized sexual orientation in their subculture. Mine threatened to kill me over me over WAY less serious things. One time he found two sheets of his paperwork stapled together that couldn’t be stapled together, decided I was responsible, and put his fist through a wall and threatened to kill me when I wouldn’t admit it.
Seriously y’all. I don’t get people who think Willis is exaggerating shitty parents for comedic effect. At the fuck all. If anything, he’s toning them down for the sake of folks who were fortunate enough to get not-walking-dumpster-fire parents.
Also also: My social circle’s shitty-parent-to-good-parent ratio is about 3:1. And that’s lumping in the unknowns with the good parents. I don’t think Willis is overexaggerating the number of shitty parents out there any more than I think he’s overexaggerating the shittiness of the shitty parents.
For the record: I was not responsible. Even if I had been, though, I wouldn’t have deserved to be assaulted and threatened. Just sayin’.
We’re currently at slightly less than 50% awful parents, which is a proportion about in line with reality, at least as I’ve experienced it.
As others have said, we see more of the bad parents because the comic is about the kids, and the kids are at university, so the parents don’t usually show up unless there’s a problem (or unless they’re the problem).
Mike’s got a lot of parent manipulating to do
Naomi’s plan is foolproof. All she has to do is keep Ethan away from all males for the next 15-20 years, until he
surrenders to despair and repressiongrows out of this phase and gives her those all important grandchildrenand can be safely disposed of in the MISTAKES pile.Ugh, I forgot about Ethan’s mother.
*flashbacks ensue*
*drinks to make them go away*
Don’t worry, In the live action Disney remake there’ll be a 10 minute, superfluous scene explaining how the characters can see facial expressions from behind.
Poor Ethan. Being queer under a paranoid parent is a complete mindfuck. One of my close friends growing up was in the exact same position as Ethan here and yeah, it fucked her up for years and years.
naomi needs to chill jesus hecc
Ugh. The really heartbreaking thing is, Ethan could have just been happy he has a new friend. His only other friend ever is Amber, so sexuality aside, of course he’d be smiling.
This just super highlights how lonely he and Amber are.
This one just makes me sad on so many levels. Good comic.
You feel sadness I feel anger.
Homophobic mom can detect gayness and will try anything to destroy anyone that emanates it.
This is so sad…. maybe this is at least partially why Ethan has so few friends and why his social skills later in life are…lacking. Any time he even turns his head (which is the only thing his mom can see here) in the direction of a guy he’s removed from the situation. This is awful and I hate her even more now.
It’s because it completely fails to acknowledge and dismisses the fact that bigotry is always awful no matter the time period, and also uses intent and (often willful) ignorance to excuse harm. Just like people were somehow making excuses for Toedad because “in his mind he’s just trying to rescue his daughter!!!”
No. They are both shitty parents because they care more about their own worldview and having control over their child than they do about their child’s happiness and wellbeing. Naomi is a shitty parent, and a shitty person, full stop.
And this constant call to be nicer to the bigots because “it’s soooo hard for them y’all :(” is ridiculous, because they are currently causing serious, horrific, LASTING harm to people through their bigotry, yet it’s the bigots’ feelings we’re supposed to care about? The only extent to which we should care about their feelings is to the extent that retaliating against them will cause backlash against the people they hurt. Not because oh, the poor homophobes.
It is possible to have empathy for people without liking them.
Did she take home Ethan because she figured he wanted to put the moves on Mike? And then did she buy him a toy because she felt guilty/stop him asking questions? Is that how Ethan developed his toy obsession? His mom bribing him to stop being gay?
Phew, that’s a lot to shortpack.
That’s cake not a toy
Cake is a toy, and you can’t change the facts to suit your agenda. It’s called “FUNfetti” for a reason, and we will not be silent.
Anyone else think there’s something going on in Ethan’s family that’s a little more complicated that straight-up senseless bigotry? I’m not excusing anything, but I think Naomi has a reason for acting like this. Most homophobes aren’t this paranoid. Most believe it’s a sinful choice (although I’m a little confused by Naomi’s thoughts on this, as she calls Ethan a disappointment, implying choice, but thinks Amber turned him gay, and seems to accept that’s part of who he is, so maybe not?), but if they think they raised their kids right, there’s no reason to be concerned that their kids would ever turn out ~that way~.
I mean, they’re 13 and Ethan smiled at another boy, and Naomi’s jumping straight to GAY BURN IT–that’s paranoia to the point that it’s personal. She’s homophobic for sure, don’t get me wrong, but I wonder if she’s paranoid because Ethan’s father is gay (and tried to “overcome” it like Ethan did with Joyce). We’ve already speculated this, since he told Ethan sex was “gross and scary” before you acquire a taste for it, but it kind of seems like Naomi knew this, and is paranoid about the “wrongness” affecting her son too.
I think she believes Amber was so bad at dating Ethan that he chooses to be gay now.
I’ve heard the theory about Saul before though. Maybe he is gay (or at least, not into women).
I can fully believe Saul’s not into women (I could also see sex-repulsed asexual as an option, but really we have so little to work with.) And given he clearly thinks sex is completely unpleasant and an obstacle to be overcome, it’s not inconceivable Naomi knows so this theory of her freak out could be plausible.
Dumb bongo
I still don’t like this woman.
Wow, so many good parents!
Okay I kid, I still have faith in Stacy
damn you willis
Feeling the generational gap… when I was a kid, “let me get you our wifi password” was not a phrase uttered by the parents at a party, considering we didn’t even have a modem until I was 12.
Naomi must have Superman-type-of-eyes to be able to spot Ethan’s facial expressions through the back of his head and brain matter
Reflective surfaces are a thing. Mirrors, the screen of the television when it goes dark, the glass of a framed print or similar. . .
/just saying
(Of course, that would mean that Mike can also see Naomi freaking out.)
This strip to remind you that Blaine is far from being the only utterly shitty DoA parent, just in case his recent slew of appearances had made you forget.
You know you’re old when flashbacks talks about WIFI passwords.
I wonder if Mike has always known that Ethan was attracted to him?
Yes: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/read/
That’s literally their first interaction, and Mike’s second appearance, chronologically speaking.
I think I figured out why Amber and Ethan still hang out with him until college. His parents are actually nice and decent people. Stacy is perfectly fine but I get the feeling she gets overwhelmed after the stabbing incident. Mike’s parents in shortpacked were, at worst, a little overbearing. Compared to Ethan’s homophobic parents and an overwhelmed Stacy they probably provided a very safe place to just hang out without worry.
Naomi’s husband thinks sex with her is gross but you can get used to it. This is the future she wants her son to have.
Does she blame herself for the state of her marriage, like she blames Amber for not saving Ethan from being gay? Does she blame Amber because she was able (at great personal cost) able to build a marriage despite her husband finding sex with her gross?
The Dark Side is strong with this one.
Seriously. I feel a tiny bit bad for the older Siegals in that clearly they feel culturally pressured into this arrangement that isn’t working (Saul more so than Naomi – we know it affects him, it’s possible but not explicitly confirmed it affects her), but it’s overwhelmed by the fact that they try and pressure their son right into another one. Ugh.
That makes more sense but that’s deep and psychologically fucked.
can we all for just a moment take into account how good her eyesight is? she could literally see her son smiling at whatshisname from behind him. bongo saw through his head to his face and could determine his expression.
I know right, she saw that tiny little rotation of Ethan’s head, and knew exactly what was going on . It’s too bad she could not use this power for something not terrible
Has it not occurred to anybody that she could have seen his face in the reflection of the T.V.?
that seriously didn’t occur to me until owlmirror pointed it out. I guess I don’t think about reflections unless I’m taking a photo?
What if she just really had to use the bathroom but was too shy to ask?
Or maybe she recognized Mike as “that kid she accepted a nickel from in an alternate timeline.”
I am now so far removed from my adolescence that it took reading other people’s comments realize HOLY SHIT THIS WAS MY MOM, AND SHE FUCKED ME UP SO BAD.
On the one hand there’s something pleasing about being so removed from that that it no longer triggers me in any way, but on the other I can’t help but think that this is how people reach the state of no longer remembering what it’s like to be young, and being shitty to kids.
Now introducing the butformers, assholes in disguise
Dang it Naomi.
It took me a minute to realize why this parent interaction was so weird for me. Instead of offering to chat or have coffee or anything, they just give her the wifi password. I mean, maybe I’m reading into this a lot, but that seems to speak to something larger.