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I got a new t-shirt available! As per the usual, it’s 30% off for the first three days, so you’ve got like two and a half days left for sweet, sweet savings. Go check it out at my TeePublic store!
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Cut to Joyce in a sex shop explaining to a confused clerk that she’s a size six.
+1
Cut to Joyce asking Sarah if she has a receipt she can borrow.
Dorothy DID fail to specify it had to be one generated by a purchase made by Joyce…
Yea, I noticed that loophole as well.
Mouseover text: Does Joyce love Dorothy
Yes, yes she does. Cue Slipshine! ;D
I can’t believe Joyce is fucking dead
Zombieing of Age
Top 10 Saddest Anime Deaths
Hey Dorothy, just let Joyce be who she is
Yeah, fuck encouraging personal growth, let her remain a person with neuroses and self-justifying logic loops!
Don’t forget self-loathing. If Joyce were asexual, this would indeed be rather terrible. But Joyce feels the same urges as most people her age, she’s just been raised to hate that about herself.
Yeah, this isn’t a choice she made. It’s shame that was hammered into her to control her
The important thing to understand is that it doesn’t matter what your feelings regarding sex are. Since sex is fun, you should just do it and if you don’t, you’re a repressed bongo.
….
No, Dorothy, no.
Way to put words in Dorothy’s mouth.
That is absolutely not what Dorothy is saying in any way at all. She’s not even saying that Joyce needs to go out and have sex. She (jokingly) suggested Joyce buy lube, but that doesn’t mean Joyce has to do anything with it.
Joyce’s attitude towards sex and sexuality is not healthy. This has been pointed out in the comic itself, with Joyce being so repressed she became the ding dong bandit. No one’s saying she needs to go out and start acting like Joe or Roz and start having casual sex, literally the only thing that Dorothy is saying is that Joyce needs to have a conversation about her repression and confront it.
You also don’t have to have sex with another person to enjoy lube.
She FUCKING *IS* REPRESSED. Dorothy isn’t just pulling this out of her ass because she’s “bossy” or whatever the fuck you’ve decided she is. Joyce has TOLD her this
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/afraid/
Oh god, nothing turns me on like when people cite their sources.
This ain’t Twitter and I ain’t a goose, but… honk.
Well, yes, obviously you’re a repressed bongo.
But the lube is for the loophole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pzs0aGu1fU
Her sexual repression is something she absolutely could use help with and Dorothy is right to want to help her unpack it.
So, she holds their friendship hostage and pressures her into sex.
….
Yeah, ugh. This reminds me of those guys who state that women who don’t want sex are being childish.
I’m fairly positive dorothy was joking there.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Joyce didn’t get the joke.
That is absolutely not what is happening
I read this as a sarcastic suggestion that she masturbate. Even if that wasn’t the implications she asturias going for, Dorothy and Joyce have an understanding than D didn’t mean what she said nor that she would withhold friendship
Not only is it not withholding friendship, I think the both understand that the joke was Dorothy actively being a friend, even if they would disagree whether encouraging masturbation was a positive thing to do.
While it seems as though you may yourself perhaps be catering well to further representing the topic of repression and need for psychological unpacking, it’s worth noting that this isn’t in any way a topic about personal choice or anything of the sort (though, speaking as an asexual myself, I’ll also note that you seem to be projecting far more onto the matter than actually exists, even from that perspective).
Rather, it’s a topic directly tying into the most recent arc and how Joyce is creating issues for herself and others due to her physical attraction to Jacob, how easily she’s antagonized by Walky over such, and- as noted by other commenters- her past history of getting herself into trouble due to her severe psychological impairment.
Saying “You yourself know you have this issue, and it’s gotten to the point where I need to call you out on it again” is basically the entire premise of an intervention (I’m under the impression that those are typically considered positively), and “Learn to not get so easily triggered by meaningless things” is always encourageable.
Even putting aside the fact that it’s already clear to everyone (including Joyce, despite her denial) that Joyce is a very sexual being and that her issues are causing her stress, at no point was there any effort of any sort to in any way actually encourage her into sex; rather, the entire point was to get her to stop engaging in unsupported, conflict-driving behaviors emerging from her denial and fixated outlook. Y’know.. as we’re trying to do with you, now.
Again, this has nothing to do with encouraging her into sex. In fact, it doesn’t even have anything to do with the comic up until this point. Just self-contained within today’s strip, the very first panel already tells you this isn’t about encouraging anyone to have sex, but a matter of Dorothy being concerned and stressed due to Joyce’s views toward sex.
In short, you’re not even remotely on the same topic as the comic to begin with.
For apparent reasons, I’m totally in favor of adjusting the general mentality toward sex but, in this circumstance, what’s being reflected seems to be more your own anxieties than anything Dorothy herself has presented.
Which itself is fine, we all have our sore points, up until the point where you start making unwarranted, rudely stated comparisons. We’re not challenging you because we’re at odds with your sentiments, or because we’re all part of a mastermind societal influence trying to maintain the patriarchy, but because your initial interpretation of the topic strikes us as being completely off-base.
So, if you feel we’re mistaken, then try and present logical examples and explanations as to where your perspective is coming from, rather than painting us as some sort of generalized enemy.
“stressed due to Joyce’s views toward sex.” should read “stressed due to how Joyce’s views toward sex are negatively impacting matters.”
<3
Of course the problem here isn’t that Joyce doesn’t want sex, it’s that she does want it and she’s terrified of it. That’s a bad combination.
Not sure if Dorothy is the right one to get help from. Right now, Dorothy is way too focused on her time management. I mean she broke up with Walky because she though dating him took too much of her time that she could instead be using to study and get her grades back up to what she believes she needs them to be for her goals to happen. Anyways because she’s too focused on that, I fear she’d end up treating helping Joyce work through her sexual repression as not as important as it should be. Like, “Hurry up Joyce. I got only 13.34 minutes I can spare for talking to you.” Working through something like sexual repression takes time.
…Yes, that would be exactly why Dorothy isn’t attempting to have that conversation NOW, but “when I’m not so busy”. She realizes it will need to be a delicate and lengthy one, and that she does not currently have the time or energy to it would require
Right. Dorothy has no training, let alone qualifications, in psychology, psychiatry, social work, or counselling. Her inclination to “fix” the people around her is impertinent, arrogant, and possibly dangerous.
So friends shouldn’t help each other out?
Joyce’s current mix of high sex drive and strong repression is also dangerous. Very likely to get her into trouble she’s not prepared for.
I’m all for helping my friends to carry a fridge up five flights of stairs. Not so much into giving them medical advice. A few weeks ago I was pretty sure that my sister had allergic bronchitis, but rather than tell her that I urged her to see a doctor. Turns out that she has heart failure.
Unqualified diagnosis and treatment of Joyce’s psychological issues by an untrained amateur is not help, it is meddling.
Of course, Joyce won’t go see a professional for this, so best just to do nothing, I guess.
Until she snaps and sucks like a billion dicks. 🙂
So you need a degree in psychology now just to talk to your friends about their feelings?
As a trainee counsellor fucking THANK YOU.
The jobs of people in my field would be so much less overwhelming if it were possible for more people to talk openly and frankly about their issues with their friends, and to know those friends will still love them, and will lovingly tell them when they’re being unhealthy. Yes, there’s the issue of them telling friends the wrong thing, “justifying” unhealthy behaviours- but believe me, the world is EXCELLENT at reinforcing them anyway. Having a base which is loving, supporting, unconditionally accepting of a person’s personhood BUT is also unafraid to call their bullshit, bullshit? If that were common, it wouldn’t massively reduce the amount of people NEEDING therapy, but it would help people be both in a place where they’re likely to admit they need it and seek it out, and be in a place where they can open up to their therapist a lot sooner.
No, but I’m not criticising Joyce for talking to Dorothy about her feelings. I’m criticising Dorothy for trying to change people without their consent and sometimes contrary to their requests. It’s unethical for two reasons. First, because no decent counsellor would perform therapy without consent. Second, because she doesn’t know what she’s doing.
Be kind to your friends. Don’t fix them without consent.
Is Dorothy “fixing Joyce without consent”? I don’t even know what that means in this context.
Joyce is basically screaming into the universe in every indirect way possible that she has a very present sex drive. Dorothy encouraging her to openly acknowledge that isn’t trying to “fix” – to change – Joyce. She’s just trying to help Joyce see the disparity between her vocalized desires and actions. That’s a basic and respected counseling technique. This is coming at a pertinent time because Joyce is beginning to violate her own personally-stated morals, not just the religious structure she’s grown up with. Dotty has her flaws, but IMO she’s handling this particular situation with wisdom, grace, and humor.
Its worse than that.
The Dorothys calculus of Walky is equally likely to extend to
Joyce’s demands on her time.
If Joyce ( out of frustration ) disparages her goals ( being President, Going to Yale ) or the likelihood of their achievement,
Or Their relative importance next to their Friendship, I think Dorothy may drop her too ( Like Danny )
Lube and self-exploration is a small step. Dorothy’s not asking Joyce to “do it” with some guy like Mrs. Siegal.
You’re right. Self-loathing and never understanding yourself or learning anything is the best way to go about life. Her friends should leave her to her ignorance and fear.
Baseline Joyce is, IMO, among the shittiest of people in this comic, so I am forced to disagree.
She defiantly needs to have the issue confronted, she is literally performing mental gymnastics to try and justify breaking them up to the point she is knowingly violating her own moral code…Walky is simply calling out the base reason she is doing it is because she wants him in a sexual way, which she clearly does and is going to insane length to dress it up. It is not a healthy path, say she did break him up and gets together with him and gets him into marriage just so she can sleep with him (hanky panky out of wedlock being a sin and all)…now their both stuck in a marriage that might not be healthy for them and which their religion will discourage them from divorcing.
Okay, now that’s… blackmail?
…no?
Like I’m not sure how you’d even reach that conclusion?
‘Next time you can hang out with me is when you’ve proven you bought lube.’
At least, that’s the implication.
That’s… not how blackmail works?
I mean technically it’s not really blackmail unless Dorothy has incriminating evidence she using to manipulate Joyce. It’s more like….bargaining I guess? Or like turning their friendship into a transaction? I was gonna say extortion but it’s not that either.
It’s not blackmail.
It’s extortion.
My friendship for you violating your values.
Yeah, it’s not extortion either. Nice try though, keep pushing that faulty interpretation.
fucking wewlad
Yeah blackmail was the wrong term.
That’s negotiation.
Blackmail would be something like, “If you don’t bring me proof that you’ve bought lube, I’ll tell Jacob about Sarah’s scheme.”
This ain’t Sarah’s scheme anymore, she told Joyce to drop it.
Now this is solely Joyce’s scheme.
I guess you could call it an ultimatum in their relationship, but even that’s a stretch. I see why it’s uncomfortable to see Dorothy saying to Joyce, “I won’t hang out with you until you do X”, but that X is good for Joyce in the long run.
Given it’s pressuring her into sexual activity….fuck no?
It’s also quite clearly a joke about how long it’s going to be before she’ll have free time, jfc
Not clear to me.
Buying lube is not sexual activity… unless you have a kink about making purchases at Walmart.
It’s not sexual but for someone as repressed as Joyce. that is a very high hurdle to clear especially if she has to do this alone and she could see it as something sexual because of her repression. Plus even though it was probably meant to be taken as a joke, Joyce might take it seriously.
I don’t think I’m as sexually repressed as Joyce, and I feel embarrassed buying condoms.
“Hello, store clerk that I may not ever meet again. I intend to have sex at some future point in time.” That is pretty much what I imagine the non-verbal message to be when I make a purchase like that.
I could definitely see Joyce having similar issues.
As an ace with social anxiety I will point out: Self-checkouts.
But thanks.
In the Netherlands, I haven’t come across a lot of pharmacies with self-checkouts.
In the UK you can buy that sort of thing from supermarkets, which do
Hey, buying online makes stuff like that so much easier.
(I take a friend along when going to the incredible women-friendly toy shop around the corner. Though that might be because I have a slight crush on the poly women activists and writer who owns it).
There’s also the variant:
“Hello, store clerk at the pharmacy where I don’t get my prescriptions filled…”
Having a kink about making purchases at Wal-Mar, huh? Now, would that be considered convenient or inconvenient?
The good news is, you can satisfy your kink basically whenever. The bad news is, you might end up going overboard and blowing a whole paycheck on pizza rolls and light bulbs.
Wal-mar huh?
It isn’t pressuring her into sexual activity. It is pressuring her into buying a product that others might see her buying and then think she has sexual thoughts because she is sexually repressed and feels internally ashamed for normal feelings and thoughts that most people have. One of the ways to overcome shame can be confronting it and doing something you feel shame about – because then you can feel more comfortable once you realise that no one else is judging you for it.
She’s not telling her to sleep with 30 guys, she’s telling her to buy a PRODUCT. She doesn’t have to use it to own it and she only asked for the receipt – she could immediately throw it away if she wanted.
Or return it, since there was no requirement for her to keep the reciept as evidence.
Or get on the interwebs and print one out. Or write one. Or just refuse and ambush Dorothy at lunch. It’s a freshman friendship, not a legally binding negotiation.
It’s this thing called a joke, maybe you’ve heard of it?
Aw c’mon Dorothy, at least Joyce knows what you’re talking about. Th-that’s progress, right?
“But why would I need lubricant? To squeeze into the crawl space in Jacob’s room so I can spy on him in a purely romantic way?”
“You will need that to escape the prison bars”
Dorothy just wants Joyce to be able to set herself free!
steal Joe’s, he probably won’t notice
ew the *receipt*
does he even keep those
does she have to go through his trash
scratch that plan
Yeah…. what might she find there … *shudders*
Since he starred in a popular sex tape, he now keeps the receipts so he can write them off on his taxes as a business expense.
Was there a song titled “Lotion” or did I just make that up myself?
https://youtu.be/JBgDV4eHB6c
I don’t even
Me neither. It lost the Gong Show.
There is indeed a song of that title… it’s by Greenskeepers and is about Buffalo Bill. That said, you could also be thinking of the band Lotion who were one of the mob of generic indie/alt rock acts that got some form of contract in the ’90s… their sound and lyrics are not that different from The Rembrants and myriad others of the type in the early to mid ’90s.
My mind immediately went to that scene from “Silence of the Lambs.” It would never have occurred to me that someone had done a song based on that scene. Clearly I have insufficient faith in the darkness of the human spirit.
Don’t make the same mistake I did and buy anti-personnel lubricant.
I laughed
…for quick hook-ups? “Nothing personal, just lube.”
Or Super-glue.
A newlywed couple named Kelly
Spent their honeymoon belly-to-belly
Because, in their haste,
They used library paste
Instead of petroleum jelly.
Limericks are nature’s Ambien.
M18 Claymore lube? Does it say “Front Toward Partner” on the label?
we have very different definitions of “mistake”
Dorothy, Dorothy…….you’re not THAT busy.
I know she’s most likely being sarcastic in the last panel (especially since she’s so busy) but ouch, Dorothy.
Dorothy, c’mon. You’re better than this. Stop harassing Joyce.
I’m not sure, I think it might be good for Joyce if she hears something to make her make one of those faces.
Pff, Joyce is a mastermind. She’ll swipe one of Sarah’s receipts for personal lubricant – checkmate, Dotty!
I had to scroll up to check, and yes, the wording totally allows that.
Haha, yup. I’m very pedantic and love wordplay so I always pick up on wording specifities. Your gravitar is super cool by the way!
I do appreciate that Dorothy wants to help Joyce get past her hangups, but that’s a biiig leap to make. The girl can’t even accept that she might have sexual feelings for someone despite not being married to him. Telling her to go buy lube is, like, skipping about twenty important steps in between. Getting from that point A to point B took me like a solid three years.
I don’t think she meant that particular statement seriously.
Honestly I do think people tend to overanalyze this comic a bit. Obviously they’re going to hangout again, obviously Dorothy doesn’t really expect Joyce to rush out and buy lube just to interact. Otherwise what is this friendship we’ve watch build for 8 years? It was just a smartass remark from Dorothy who’s slighty irritated for multiple reasons.
It’s very obviously a joke, yes.
It’s also very obviously a joke made right after she was getting testy about Walky teasing Joyce for her sexual repression, so it’s also a kind of hypocritical joke that shines a light on some of Dorothy’s weaknesses not really allowing her the moral high ground she’d like to have.
Like, there’s definitely stuff to pick apart here vis-a-vis Dorothy’s actions, but I’m not 100% down with reading this as Dorothy being Absolutely Completely Serious and extorting Joyce. There’s lots of reasons why this isn’t a cool action on her part, but none of them involve just twisting Joyce’s arm.
…slightly irritated for multiple reasons….
Joyce’s crack about why she dated Walky, IMHO, should have stabbed Dorothy right in her insecurities. And she has so much to be insecure about. That she’s even speaking civilly to Joyce after that shows her extreme tolerance. IMHO of course.
Dude it’s just the punchline to a comic strip. It was meant to be funny, it ain’t that deep
Personal lubricant, sterilized hairbrush, and this month’s BodyBuilders Monthly…..
That’s how I lost mine.
Well, except replace the BodyBuilder’s monthly with Star Trek fanfiction.
…
The best part about this post is that no one here has any idea if I’m joking or not, and if so, about which part.
I’d believe Digimon over Star Trek, personally.
That would be difficult since this occurred in 1994 and Digimon wasn’t created until several years after that. Also I have never watched it – the only monster collecting games/anime I enjoy are the Persona series.
Well, and the rest of the Megaten series in general.
So… you lubed up the hairbrush, but it slipped from your hand and broke when it landed, and that’s how you lost your hairbrush. Right?
Ah, yes, Dorothy–you can only be friends with Joyce if she changes her morality to fit your ideals of who she should and what she should hold sacred.
You are now a scary politician.
I’m not really sure that buying lube requires you to do any of that hahaha. It does however require you to get over your shame long enough to purchase it. Which I believe is the point.
She’s been friends with Joyce in spite of her prejudiced and bigoted upbringing and seen her change for the better in a remarkably short amount of time (some of it due to Dorothy helping her, shockingly). It’s not wrong of her to keep wanting Joyce to better herself and to hold her to a higher standard, especially when Joyce’s actions can prove harmful to herself and people around her.
one step closer to her goal of being president!
How is making a purchase of an entirely mundane item forcing any change in Joyces ideals?
This isn’t about ideals – it’s about Joyce growing the fuck up and being mature, functional person. Buying a product from a store should not be cause for paralyzing embarrassment.
It’s not that, either. It’s a joke. She knows its going to be a LONG time before Joyce is comfortable enough with sex to even NEED lube, much less buy it and admit to it
Lube isn’t just for sex.
Although with Joyce’s bonkers upbringing I feel like tampons were probably VERY taboo. Too close to sex- or perhaps masturbation- in the eyes of the absolute bonkers culture they were in.
Can’t think of other (non medical) purposes for it right now but it exists.
So it’s not like buying tampons. It’s buying something primarily associated with sex but with ligitimate non sexual uses.
You can hold something sacred in a way that is detrimental to your personal health and growth. We’ve seen that Joyce’s shame regarding her sexuality has caused her guilt and anxiety. Dorothy knows this. It’s in her bounds as Joyce’s close friend to talk to her about it and even throw a little snark.
I may have the details mixed up, but wasn’t there a whole bit way back about how Joyce was scared Dorothy wasn’t going to want to be friends with her anymore? Because of what she was doing with Ethan? I don’t think Dorothy is at all like what you describe. She’s patient and tolerant. Even when it came to Roz’s dorm sex tape (something Dorothy would never herself do), eventually she listened to her and came around to respecting her viewpoint.
…So people have two reads on the situation here:
1. Dorothy has been trying to convince her friend she’s making a mistake, but upon finding she was completely ignored, is going back to work with a inappropriate-but-friendly joke;
2. Dorothy is trying to coerce her friend into sexual activity.
Do you really think the second is more plausible? Have you considered not assuming the absolutely worst possible interpretation of everything Dorothy does?
Buying lube isn’t even sexual activity it’s just acknowledging that it exists.
By that rationale Dorothy should have said nothing about any of Joyce’s other hangups and prejudices and just let her be who she is even though who she is was kind of a gross bigot. Trying to get your friend to confront their issues is not a bad thing especially when said issues are having a negative effect on their well being.
wow what are you even on about
I once had a Dorothy who ended up becoming my Mike
Today this comic and my life were tangentially relevent to eachother.
Just buy some lotion, Joyce.
It’s close enough for government work, so Dorothy should be ok with it given her chosen profession.
I kinda think, given Joyce having recently been very close to sexually assaulted, this is an insensitive conversation for Dorothy to suggest pushing on her. Dorothy doesn’t know whether or not that trauma may be amplifying Joyce’s neuroticism over sexuality.
Suggesting Joyce have that conversation with a therapist? Yes, absolutely. Suggesting that she herself “needs” to have that conversation with Joyce, while suggesting that the continuation of their friendship hinge on Joyce providing physical documentation of self-penetration? Yeah, sorry, that’s sketchy and grossly insensitive on Dorothy’s part.
That last bit is clearly a joke, but Joyce has been able to talk to Joyce about this subject before.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/afraid/
She’s not some random stranger making this suggestion. She’s Joyce’s best friend. She knows the kind of stuff Joyce had drilled into her about sex (she even JUST summarized a bunch of it only a few strips ago).
I especially like the vulnerability Dorothy has in the next strip after you cite. This is the kind of empathy Dorothy is good at and why Joyce trusts her.
Nobody said anything about self-penetration. Just “buying a product that may cause the checkout cashier (whom you don’t know) to think that just-maybe you are the kind of person who considers doing anything sexual ever.” And if she then happens to have the product around for if and when she ever gets to the stage where she considers trying it (and by the way, it is useful for more than just self-penetration), well…that part is something only Joyce needs to know about and/or consider.
Also, I don’t think it’s at all out of bounds for friends to have conversations about major issues that they observe in each other. Heck, I’ve had (not even particularly close) friends outright state “I feel like we should/We need to get into that a bit/pick that apart/talk about why you struggle with that.” It’s…a fairly normal part of friendship. For some people, it’s far easier to speak with a friend than with a therapist, if the friend is willing.
As a general rule it’s a lot cheaper to talk to a friend than a therapist too. 😉
(Not that I don’t think they’re worth it! But it’d really help to have a strong support network so a therapist isn’t for EVERYTHING.)
I’m assuming Dorothy’s comment in the last panel wasn’t serious.
A lot of people are ragging on Dorothy’s last statement, but I think the really interesting one is the one in the middle which she’s already violating: “I will never judge you for having perfectly normal feelings.”
Unless you define apprehension about sex and some discomfort with it as “abnormal,” she’s already kind of judging her for those feelings and her expressions of same.
I’m not sure I follow you here. By calling Joyce’s desires “normal”, Dorothy is affirming to Joyce that she will not shame her or view her as lesser for them. I don’t see how that translates to a judgement of apprehension about sex. If she’s judging something, it’s Joyce’s refusal to have any reflection about her repression.
Yes, I would classify Joyce’s level of shame as abnormal.
There’s apprehension and discomfort about sex, and there is being completely repressed and actively denying that you have any desires or thoughts, because you must be Pure up until your wedding night, lest God judge you unworthy and you spend eternity in Hell as the godless harlot that you are.
Joyce’s feelings are not wholly healthy. This has been said in the comic before.
Oh, don’t get me wrong; Joyce’s feelings are definitely not healthy. But based on her upbringing and history? Yeah, they are pretty expected and normal within this context.
And following her immediately getting upset at Walky making the same point in a more snarky fashion, it’s not a good color on Dorothy. (It’s one of those lovely scenarios where everyone’s wrong about separate things.)
They’re still not normal feelings. Joyce’s feelings did not come about naturally, they were taught to her by the education and the environment she grew up in. And that doesn’t mean that Joyce shouldn’t examine her feelings and her shame just because it’s ‘normal’ that someone that grows up the same way she did feels the way she does. That’s not healthy either. The context does not make it better.
You missed the point. She’s saying Joyce’s religious upbringing ingrained in her mind that she will be harshly judged by everyone for thinking sexual thoughts. She’s saying that’s complete crap, those are normal thoughts and she’d never judge her for them. This is why you don’t analyze every single thing someone says, you start to see the sentence in twisted ways that make no sense anymore.
Pretending sex organs don’t exist prior to marriage is not a normal outlook by any stretch of the imagination.
I think the implication of the last statement is 1: a joke and 2: I’m so busy that we won’t be able to hang out for a LONG TIME.
this comment section is wild
So is Joyce’s imagination
*read up some of the earlier comments*
yeah, urgh, no. I think I’ll leave them to their cheap rage shot at a comic character.
Oh my god, the amount of people ragging on Dorothy in this comment thread. Y’all either totally missed the point or are hardcore projecting.
Pictured: Dorothy judging Joyce for having perfectly normal feelings.
I mean, I get how VASTLY irritating it can be to be caught in the wake of Joyce’s neuroses, but Dorothy is not doing anyone any favors by framing it as a character fault Joyce just need to get over.
And honestly, I think it’s more shallow than that. I think Dorothy is just stressed out, ragged thin and annoyed that Walky got the last word, she she took a cheap shot at Joyce (which you might say is perfectly deserved after making Dorothy watch her fighting with Raidah front row). She would be better off not trying to get the last word, but just declaring that she need to focus on herself for a while.
I don’t think it’s that Walky got the last word. It’s that Joyce paid attention to his snark, while plainly still ignoring Dorothy’s honest efforts to reach her about the situation. That would be annoying to almost anyone even if they weren’t busy.
That’s what I mean with “the last word”. In the competition for Joyce’s attention, Walky won.
Which is extremely annoying.
Oh, fair enough.
Dorothy has some pretty good reasons to not be terribly interested in handling Joyce delicately considering some of the shit she’s said to her during their past few strips.
I like how you switch from “perfectly normal feelings” to “neuroses”.
Most of us don’t consider neuroses perfectly normal. Common, perhaps, but that’s not quite the same.
Don’t really need lubrication to get the job done, but I guess Dorothy wants proof.
One of my favorite quotes comes from a story about mucus researchers:
“Love may make the world go round, but mucus facilitates its horizontal translation.”
50 internet points to whoever uses that line in bed with their partner.
hee hee hee
After having spent the last few weeks having Joyce and Walky taking up her every free minute, Dorothy now seems to manage to put some distance to both of them.
Which is not a good sign for her ability to balance work/fun
Finally, Dorothy proves she can… go the distance.
To be fair Joyce, you don’t need to USE it
Yea like mentioned above… first of all she is definitely joking. Second of all she just asked for the receipt… not a video of Joyce a Ricky masturbating. She would like to see progress in Joyce admitting that sex is a thing.
Who’s Ricky, and why is Joyce masturbating with him on camera?
Dorothy: “Joyce, sex is normal thing to have.”
Joyce: “So… can I steal the boyfriend of someone else?”
Dorothy: “Go self explore yourself a little and then we can talk about your sociopathy.”
Kind of like watching Cathy Newman interviewing Jordan Peterson “So you’re saying…” “no!”
Isn’t he the conservative psychologist that likes to make feminists angry with bigotry and “facts”?
Pretty much.
The alt-right loves him, though he tries to distance himself from them. He’s all “cultural marxism” and “political correctness is evil”.
Being “all cultural Marxism” is not a good way of distancing himself from Nazis, since it’s literally a paper thin euphemism for “evil Jewish conspiracy to dilute the white race”.
(In case it didn’t come across, I’m amused by the idea of this guy and his trying to distance himself from a group while both of them are using dog whistles for nazism that are similar levels of ‘completely transparent’.)
Go forth and fap Joyce!
But she will judge you for anything she deems abnormal and amoral. But remember, it’s all for your own good, like all the people she’s hurt and driven away.
I can’t remember Dorothy ever judging Joyce for something that wasn’t very clearly a bad thing.
Who are these “all the people she’s hurt and driven away”?
I mean, I guess that could be Walky and Danny, but those weren’t really about judging anything “abnormal and amoral.”
Having the same parts as Joyce, I have to confess I have no idea what you need to buy lubricant for.
I mean butt stuff maybe? But the other part kind of handles itself.
Not everyone with a vagina produces enough natural lubrication for penetrative intercourse (even fingers can be uncomfortable when dry).
If someone said that to Joyce Willis would have to draw another freak-out face.
You say that like it’s a bad thing
I’m always down for more Joyce freak-out face.
Basically what Sol said. 🙂 Some women produce, ahem, copious amounts of natural lubrication. Some do not. And you may find that this changes as you age and things like pregnancy, menopause and other great events come and go through your life. As a general rule of thumb, if it’s hurting, use more lube. There’s no shame in needing it, or needing to use more.
And do give the butt stuff a try. It’s like spicy food; it’s not for everyone, but you may find that you like it. :3
I confess I was mostly wondering why Dorothy was assuming Joyce needed it because it varies so much.
Well, probably for a few reasons.
1.) Most folks with the parts in question could use some lube, because there will be at least some times when they aren’t sufficiently producing their own.
There’s a huge amount of deeply ingrained shame and misconception about this – a lot of us feel like we shouldn’t “need” lube, ever, for that part of our body. Like it’s abnormal to need it (instead of incredibly common – even for people who do produce “copious amounts”, natural lube DRIES OUT during sexual activity all the time), or a sign that we don’t desire our partners enough, or otherwise means we’re “failing” as good partners, etc.
(There’s probably a lot of shame here that’s similar to the shame some of us feel about the appearance, smell, and tightness of our respective body parts, with a lot of unrealistic expectations that society has built up for said body parts.)
2.) Honestly, with Joyce’s stress and fear, the odds that she won’t produce enough are decent. (Sometimes fear, stress, and other negative emotions increase this production, but not always.)
So it’s not a bad guess on Dorothy’s part, even if she is actually making the assumption that Joyce needs lube.
But also…
I mean, Dorothy isn’t actually making any such assumption. This is a joke, which includes an example of something completely harmless that Joyce could buy from a store which would nonetheless put Joyce in too much of a shame spiral right now to manage. Joyce being able to purchase personal lubricant would mean she’d overcome some of that, but I think Dorothy tried to pick the least threatening example she could think of.
(She could also have suggested Joyce buy condoms or a vibrator – but compared to those two things, lube is much less… overwhelming, I think. There’s more room for the shop clerk to possibly NOT assume anything about Joyce, since personal lube has other uses.)
Especially since most American guys are never made aware that it takes about a half-hour of petting before they’ll get to the female equivalent of ‘full mast’ simply because it doesn’t work that way for *us.*
Yeah, sex education here is basically worthless. My health class had a two-day course, half of which was just identifying anatomy on a picture and looking at Google Images of STDs.
The other half was fucking bizarre; three guys nobody even knew came into the classroom and took the guys to the library, where they didn’t explain anything beyond “Sometimes sex happens and you’re guys, so you probably wanna do it around about now.” Then they said we could ask them any question at all about sex, and the room was fucking silent for several minutes, because none of us had enough information to even form the most basic of questions. Then the bell rang, and none of this was ever mentioned again.
So, you can imagine my surprise when, after months of my girlfriend and I fooling around, I finally discovered that I wasn’t even doing it properly, and that’s why she never got off. I was fucking stunned. Lemme tell ya, we fixed that up right quick, not to be crass.
Okay, so after reading the replies here – I’m going to assume Dorothy is one of the people who needs the lubricant and is just assuming Joyce does too, because I can’t imagine Joyce telling her she needs it.
Wayyyy more people could use the “extra help” than can admit it to themselves, tho, because there’s this ridiculous and deeply ingrained idea that not always being able to generate Sufficient lube for the entire length of sexual activity makes you… sexually inadequate.
I’d go as far as to say that the vast majority of people with vags could use a little personal lubricant some of the time, so even if Dorothy meant any of this seriously it wouldn’t be such a wild guess.
Transman with a similar experience. Vanilla stuff, there’s just no need for it (for me, I mean). Beyond altering my labido testosterone had no effect on that either. So it genuinely baffled me at first that it was a “thing” for sex in general, and it still gives me a moment of pause.
But yeah, our plumbing is something of a rare jewel when it comes to natural lubrication. It’s worth valuing and appreciating.
(Assuming you like sexytimes anyway.)
I gotta admit, I wouldn’t just assume someone needed to buy it unless they told me. So *copies theory from above thread* I’m gonna guess Dorothy is someone who needs the extra help and just assumes Joyce does too because I can’t imagine Joyce telling her.
(Sorry for repeating the same thing so much, I got a bunch of thoughtful replies and wanted to respond to everyone)
Or… Dorothy just threw it out there as something relatively inexpensive and less stressful to get than if she suggested a dildo, vibrator, butt plug, etc. At the very least, there’s less implication that she needs to do anything with it unlike if she suggested the above. That, and someone as inexperienced and full of anxiety about the whole situation like Joyce is would probably have a hard time self-lubricating, as she would need a while to even touch her ‘girly bits’.
And at the end of the day, it’s a joke. She’s not being serious at all.
You need to buy it because stores get pretty angry if you just take it.
Oh my
Psst, Joyce… Pro-tip. You can buy practically any kind of sexual aid or accouterments online these days. ANY KIND.
Am I the only one who noticed that the commentariot is so shocked and offended at what Dorothy said to Joyce, but they still make fun of
Danny for refusing sex with Billy.
Yep, totally not toxic masculinity nothing to see here folks.
Is that really a thing, though? I haven’t seen any Dan-shaming in a while.
Yeah. I’ve seen talk about Joe’s point of view in that bit, which sometimes segues into “Danny refused for bad reasons” until someone reads the next strip and realizes he was just covering for his real reasons because he didn’t think Joe would accept them.
Looking back I don’t think his stated reasons were bad, I mean Billy was an adult and Danny does not have to shield her from making bad decisions, but he also does not have to be a part of what he considers a bad decisions. Also Danny might not want to be remembered as the guy she stooped to sleeping with when she was desperate for validation.
Actually this is the sort of thing I’m talking about.
Like, why are we even debating whether his reasons were valid?
I don’t think there is a illegitimate reason to refuse sex. If it made him uncomfortable, then it made him uncomfortable , and frankly Billies actions would have made me uncomfortable as well.
I don’t know. I think “I don’t want to take advantage of” the sober woman who’s almost forcing herself on me is kind of a bad reason. A stupid one at least, because it makes no sense. It’s not a valid reason, precisely because it’s not his real reason.
And that’s the whole point. There’s nothing wrong with his actual reasons for refusing sex, but his story about it is silly.
Very often the commentophere has different people making fun of people for different things.
If Dan wasn’t comfortable with sex with Billie, good on him. Same for Joyce. But I’m not a big fan of Dorothy because every conversation is either ambition or chiding people. I admit, I’m more fond of big fun characters like Becky.
Being friends with Dorothy seems like it would be exhausting.
dorothy should meet anti-joyce
Having been brought up in a household that was that fucking repressed (for those assigned as girls, anyway. The boys could be as overtly sexual as they wanted and would get cheered on for it), I get it. Dorothy is right that Joyce does need to deal with her repression.
What Dorothy is missing/not getting is the pure abject panic that sort of an upbringing instills in you at the thought of maybe possibly even thinking about sex. I was the Joyce of my group in this respect for a long time, and it’s not merely being “uncomfortable”. It’s a sense of deep Knowledge that sex is bad and dangerous, and if you want it, you’re already doomed.
I don’t think people who weren’t brought up in that way can really understand the level of dread it instills in you. Dorothy doesn’t get it, but to be fair she’s not really equipped to get it. Probably the only one of the main cast who is would be Jocelyn.
(on that note, I really hope we see more of Jocelyn soon)
Really insightful reflection. Thanks for that. I’m hoping we get more Jocelyn soon too!!
I still remember how embarrassed mom was when the sibling and I told her that she needed to be more quiet when she and dad were having sex, because we were trying to sleep. She said “I’d never have brought this sort of thing up with my parents!” *shakes head* Eh, you do what you do to survive, I guess.
Joyce last panel:
*internal screaming*
*leaks out into external screaming*
Phrased a little differently, “We can definitely hang out some more when you start being a little more honest with yourself.” I don’t see what’s wrong with that.
Because it doesn’t affect Dorothy, and it’s not her business. It is a boundaries violation on Dorothy’s part to assume authority over her behavior like that, too.
Of course, we can hope she’s being flippant and won’t hold her to that.
This little girl needs to be reminded of her religious demographic’s higher divorce rate caused by several factors, one of the most notable being young people rushing into marriage so they can have sex, only to break up soon after because 1- they’re no good at it and the experience is unsatisfying or 2- it turns out they don’t really like each other, just found each other attractive (is that why lust is a sin?)
Hey Dorothy, if you’re the (half-)irritated one, buy your own damn lube
Joyce/Dorothy slipshine?
Now now, Joyce, no need to freak out. She never said it had to be YOUR receipt. Maybe Sarah has one you can borrow
Jeez, Dotty, just sell your supposed friend to a Swiss trafficking ring, why don’t ya? Hope she knows how to say “I’m a size 6” in Schweizerdeutsch. /s
Nah, but this is pretty funny.
The amount of people missing the joke is baffling.
That said, for once, I’m more interested in Mike’s arc…
Poor, poor Joyce
Joyce: *texting Joe* I’m calling in a huge favor…
Wait, did Joye just say crap?
Every strip I become more convinced that Dorothy is me