…It was basically exactly like this for me. Liking boys never really stood out to me as something I had to cram into my identity right away. I guess I never found the time to completely get acquainted with the fact, even after I had been seeing my boyfriend for a while.
But then before I know it, I’m standing there, halfway ready for the big date – the first real date with my most treasured partner, gosh, and my first date ever, and– and then the choice of word hits me, like, inevitably. A boy? It’s almost like I didn’t expect it. We’d been through thick and thin together, we were close enough to eachother to know for sure that we really wanted to do things like dinners and going out and having experiences together, and then about half an hour before the arrangement it’s like I had to do a double take and just wonder how this happened. How strange! A gay date! It’s going to be a dude on the other side of the table! Inexplicable. This could not have been foreseen.
It’s as if this post, being by someone other than Ana Chronistic, were out of place in some indescribable way. Like it doesn’t jibe with our current reality.
It’s probably a result of social conditioning, we see dates all the time on TV and its always heterosexual couples going to dinner and a movie, despite the fact a movie is a terrible way to get to know someone.
Though I suppose an argument could be made you can judge their taste based on the movie they pick, or how they respond to yours.
I think the movie is a way to easily give you a shared experience, it’s bonding without having to do too much.
Plus society used to really frown on being alone together, not to mention having an option to make out, so, a socially-acceptable dark room may be a plus.
Unrelated to what you`re actually saying (sorry!), but even though it makes no sense in the context I can`t stop seeing “way to easily” as a typo of “way too easily”. It`s important everyone knows this, honest.
I mean, the only bad part about it is the order. It should be a movie, then dinner, as you’ll have something to talk about during dinner, and you’ll probably be hungry from only having had candy/popcorn for the last two hours.
Also, in regards to gay dating, I mean . . . yes, societal norms may make it weird for you for fifteen minutes before you start enjoying yourself/panicking that your date is miles out of your league, but fifteen minutes of awkwardness is preferable to a lifetime of disappointment in your life choices, methinks.
I don’t know; I have fond remembrances of going out for a coffee or what until like 2 am with friends to completely dissect the symbolism of a movie after having seen it. Mind you, helped that most of us had art or theatre backgrounds, one way or another.
Sadly, the last movie I saw that really had some symbolic meat in the details that one could get one’s teeth into was Bram Stoker’s Dracula in 1992 (some great symbolism there is the little details, like Lucy’s costumes being decorated with snakes, or being inspired by lizards–very reptile-themed, while Mina’s had leaves on most of hers)–until I just watched The Shape of Water the day before last, which is fantastic and also which has some absolutely wonderful symbolism with the use of colour etc that I can finally really sink my teeth into again.
Geez, dudes, really? Guy lays out his heart and shares how this same experience felt, and you’re gonna just completely ignore that for that tired “you’re not Jen Aside/Ana Vhronisitic” joke? She doesn’t make the first comment every day, anyway.
But CC, thanks for sharing that – it makes me feel a little better to see such a reaction in a more neutral fashion; I can’t shake the feeling that Billie is going to springboard this revelation into freaking out and breaking up with Ruth. That whole “wait, gay? Uh, no, not me!” And given that Billie is ditzy enough to not believe in the concept of bisexuality, that doesn’t seem like an unfounded fear, but I appreciated your story as an example of such a realization leading to honest reflection.
I had a weird backwards version of this. “Coming out” as a lesbian was no big deal–But when I fell in love with a man, years after establishing my sexual identity? THAT threw me. I had a panic attack the first time we kissed because I could not rationalize my former identity with my new reality. I have a hard time explaining to people that I feel queer, but I’m married to a dude. Nowadays I just refer them to Erika Moen’s DAR.
As a trans person who (pretty much for that reason) hadn’t started dating seriously until well into adulthood, I kinda had that experience more than once. “Holy shit, I’m in an *actual* relationship with an *actual girl*.” “Oh my god, I’m flirting with a guy who *knows I’m a guy*.”
Who opens the door? Who drives? Who stays home and takes care of the kids? WHO TAKES THE ROLE OF THE GENDER NOT PRESENT!?!
-Actual quote from my brother when talking about a date with a guy-
reminds me of that silly tumblr thread where they were saying when gay men have to both pay for the bill (so the obvious solution is to fight to the death for it) while gay women don’t have to pay at all but they can’t sit down because no one pulled a chair out for them :p
Dear gods, you’d think the people involved in saying such nonsense, if serious, had either never experienced an actual date or else had grown up in the most insular traditionalist communities on the planet and never left.
okay but real talk a lot of my early girl on girl experiences were like… both of us leaning into the kiss 10% and then just sitting there, like… well, shit. We did figure it out eventually, generally.
I know we met her sorta-ex from highschool, I am curious if they just never formally dated, like her thing with Ruth so far, or if they did, and this is a “haven’t done this since-” thing.
I am thinking the former, just for Walky’s “I guess drama is sexually transmitted” or something like that. been a while since I’ve seen that punchline, so I don’t remember the exact phrasing. got the impression Billie let them down in a big way, so probably not a formal relationship.
Billie’s never thought of herself as a lesbian, or even a bisexual. She’s a normal hetero girl, who, As All Girls Do (as she once explained to Joyce, causing one of Joyce’s Three Great Freak-Out Faces), occasionally gets ‘bi-curious’ but IS NOT A GAY. Going on a Date with Ruth would officially contravene that, IN PUBLIC.
ive been on a couple dates before but they never felt like this. they felt more like “yeah i guess” now that i think about it. wondering if ill feel like this when i go on a “for real” date
At first I was between reading that as a “Wait am I not straight” huh and a “what are the rules for dates when you’re both girls” huh. I’m leaning towards the latter now.
Now, to be fair I don’t believe in “rules” for dates, and I would not know what they are if I did. But I have had that experience of feeling like I should know the rules, like, should i hold her hand? When should I hold her hand? If someone looks at as funny, do I drop her hand or hold it tighter or punch them in the face with our joined hands? I asked her out so I feel like I should pay, but she keeps insisting yo pay for at least every other thing, so?
Honestly there is exactly one real hard and fast rule in dating, and really all interpersonal interactions, be respectful of and toward everyone involved.
That aside, yeah I read it as “what are the expected norms” too,
Also, yes, dates are quite stressful especially when it’s all new to one or when one hasn’t really dated in quite a while.
I was going that same direction “What are the rules when you’re both girls”, I hadn’t really considered the “Huh, am I not straight?” thing. Maybe being CIS myself it just seems like a no-brainer. “You’ve been romantically involved with her for a while, why is this a strange concept?”
I sometimes wonder how I’d deal with being attracted to men, and if it would be some kind of struggle for me. Knowing me, it’d probably be a “Huh, well that’s a thing.” and moving on with my life. I’ve never much cared for fitting in.
It might not have been intentionally capitalized. There are some words my phone assumes are acronyms, then I look back at something I typed and it looks like I’m screaming random words in the middle of sentences.
I did actually know that, it just cumbersome to write out “Cis-White-Hetero-Male” every time, but honestly I should at least write out “Cis-Hetero” to cover all the basic framework. Sorry, thanks for calling me on that.
…Did I miss a mock-complaining twitter post by Willis four months ago where he said, “Sure, I could draw several strips with Billie in one of her favorite colors, or I could draw several strips with her in a color she’s never worn before”?
Looking for something else, I wound up on Walkypedia and realized that the teal blouse is exactly the same as Alice’s. I suppose this would count as Explaining the Joke if I’d understood the joke to begin with.
Yeah, I don’t think this relationship is going places. Relationships based on mutual desperation usually fall apart after the desperation goes away, because there is often little else holding them together. As seems to be the case here.
Man does that face indicate Billie is just now realizing she may have feelings for boys & girls? She’s gonna have to come up with a name for such a thing, she already has the title girlfriend, now she just needs a bi line. I’m sure she will figure something out.
On a semi related note, you would be amazed at how many Dick’s I sucked before it occurred to me I am pretty clearly not as straight as I had been lead to believe. Weird how that works out
My “straight” ass had a crush on a girl for three years and would call her after school to tell her how pretty she had looked that day before I figured some things out.
Also, I read and passed around manga with semi-slutty depictions of girls. But I was like, “No, see, we’re girls, so it’s fine if we read this.”
Turns out, none of us were straight. About half of us weren’t girls.
Well, my best friend and I did the same (even playing hentai or dating games)…heck, I think we still sometimes do the same, though we’re both straight. Doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy it, or can’t talk about it. Maybe there was a time in between I crushed on her (as I’m demi), but we’ve kept our friendship going for nearly twenty years, so I just basically experienced it as “Oh you like that. I like you, so I’ll just look into that and tell you what I think” – and we both ended up liking it. The same with another friend and reading yaoi. Although since I grew older I look much more critically at things like that, our primary interest in those things now is our shared interest in toring them apart in discussions.
I had naked and otherwise sexy/cute woman sketches and was pretty sure I was asexual, a term I actually invented for myself from Latin roots because visibility is aggressively bad.
I’m still pretty sure I’m ace, but I also think the sexualisation of women has an impact regardless of your sexuality
(sorry, not to detract from your self-realisation, I’m glad art played a part and you have that record that’s kinda cool 🙂 )
I personally believe that we are allowed to express our interests in any way, especially through art or hobbies, no matter our supposed social role or sexuality.
E.g. I sometimes (used to) read very brutal and bloody manga – although I’d never want to ever harm a person in my life. Still, I pretty much enjoy them, when they have an interesting story. A friend of mine’s ace but loves romances, especially gay ones with men. So probably sexuality itself has an impact on us.
When I was a teenager there was that brief period where I was VERY passionate about how much I loved boobs, in a purely heterosexual way. I don’t… I don’t know.
One time in college I was going into my dorm, and this guy wasn’t far behind me, so I stepped back and held the door open for him. And he wouldn’t go in. I’ve seen/had/heard of it happening where someone holds the door and the person goes through the door next to it instead, but this was a single door. So he was just standing there, looking uncomfortable. And I was just standing there, holding the door and realizing I was done with class for the day, so you know what, I can wait. I can hold this door all fucking day. I probably wasn’t going to get to that paper tonight anyway.
Eventually he went through the doorway. It was immensely satisfying.
For self-identifying as tough and strong and stoic and whatnot… the male ego is fragile as shit.
That’s not even an accusation against men (I share as many of those stupid beliefs as I haven’t yet been able to shed). It’s an accusation against masculinity. We really should find less stupid things to take pride in.
I once had a man being uncomfortable with me holding the door for him while he was carrying a box in both hands 😂
There must be something really demeaning in only having two hands….
I’m so glad that, for as backwards as my area is… door holding is something that is universal.
Someone’s close behind you, and there’s not a security reason to not hold the door (I work at a facility where security is sometimes taken Very Seriously™, you’re not supposed to hold certain doors for anyone)?
You hold the damn door, at least so that they don’t have to open it themselves (not necessarily let them go first, but you at least hold it until they’ve gotten the opportunity to grab it themselves). You definitely don’t worry about your gender relative to the person who’s holding the door’s gender, or vice versa.
I don’t like making people uncomfortable like that, and I might end up having to hold the door for a whole bunch of people which makes me uncomfortable, so I’ve mastered the way of holding the door open for the people behind me while I’m going through it.
I have done this many times at work, working in a supermarket and more times than i can count have held a door open for someone carrying stuff as well as pushing a trolly, even had a door opened for me by a woman and i didnt even blink a eye, i think its time people stopped being held back by gender and social norms, they are all being broken down each and every day so why keep holding onto them?
I’d guess no formal dates – announced as such at the time, but I suspect Alice went on lots of dates with Billie while Billie was just hanging out with Alice (and as Bagge says having lots of drunk, hot cheerleader sex in a self destructive manner.
For some reason, my boyfriend always insists on not calling our sceduled quality time together ‘dates’, because that belongs to not-yet-going-steady couple activities. But he apartcipites all the same, so it doesn’t matter.
I think Billie still, when she thinks of it at all, considers herself Straight, though with Occasional Exceptions (like Robin originally in the Walkyverse). She knows she’s fooled around with girls, but she considers it no big deal — something that every straight girl does eventually. But now that the word “Date” is being attached to this relationship, it transforms it in her mind into a capital-letter Romance, which no longer fits her conception of herself. Which is going to confuse her, especially since she doesn’t think of bisexuality as a thing. She still likes boys, or thinks she does. She’s tried (half-heartedly) to throw herself at at least 3 boys (I remember Joe, Danny, and Tony), and was rejected each time, which hurt her self-esteem and self-conception as the Popular Cheerleader. She’s been in college about 6 weeks, and her first official Date is with a girl….
I could be wrong though. Maybe it’s just because she doesn’t know what to do on a date with a girl, like everyone else said?
I think you’re right, since her reaction to Ruth’s brother suggesting she was bi was “that’s not a real thing, wtf you thinking” and she seemed to think of it as “sometimes I like a girl”. Like you said, her previous stuff with Alice wasn’t serious dating, just…fun! But now that she’s gonna go on a date and thinking about it, is like “…I’m looking forward to a date with a girl. But I’m basically straight. But I’m in love with a woman…” Danny quick! Come teach her about bisexuality!
Not half-hearted, but not real interest in or attraction to Danny either. “You’ll do”. More tied to her self-esteem and self-conception than anything.
Honestly, if we didn’t have Word of God, I’d be wondering if Billie was figuring out she was actually a lesbian and not really interested in men at all. Her expressed interest has seemed very performative. “I’m a hot cheerleader and that’s shown by having sex with all the boys.” I don’t think she’s ever mentioned a past relationship with a boy, outside of direct sexual context. (Nor has Walky, who knew her in school.)
Of course she’s straight. She’s Head Cheerleader and cheerleaders are straight party girls who get all the boys they want. And if they sometimes fool around with girls too, that’s okay. Everyone does that.
I wonder if it’s not so much that she saw herself as straight with exceptions as that her relationships with girls tended to be less formal? Like, either due to internalized misogyny and internalized queerphobia, or closet pressure, she never actually bothered with as much Serious Courtship Ritual when it was a female partner. She may not even have realized she was Dating boys and Casually Sexing girls until just this moment. Like, she’s been on dates and she’s been with girls and she is only suddenly noticing that she’s never done those in combination? Though I could be blowing smoke, I’m having trouble remembering what’s been said about Billie’s romantic history.
Remarkably little. She had some kind of relationship with Alice in high school – apparently sexual and relatively long term. Alice is now apparently dating another girl and thinks of Billie as poison. She seems to have taken the relationship more seriously than Billie.
Billie’s also given the impression of being casually sexually active with boys, throwing herself at Danny, talking about getting drunk and having sex at parties, etc.
If anything, I’d guess her boy partners have been the very casual ones, while at least Alice was a more serious thing, though Billie may have treated it as “friend with benefits” while Alice was in love with her.
Which doesn’t counter what you suggest, just a slightly different angle: the times with girls were more like friends hanging out (and having sex) than formal dates, especially if it was kept as kind of a secret relationship.
The times with boys, when they weren’t just drunken party encounters, may have been more formal dates, but still mostly attempts to get into her pants.
Billie is the sort of personality who would have persecuted people below her on the social ladder for coming out of the closet, yes. It should be interesting to see how she reacts to suddenly being in the same situation as her many high school victims.
She may have been a bully in high school, but what makes you think she’d bully someone for coming out? She didn’t know that bisexuals were a thing, and seemed a little uncomfortable thinking of herself as “not straight”, but it seems like a giant leap from that to bullying someone for coming out, given Billie’s completely chill reaction to Becky coming out extremely loudly.
Maybe, but a high school mean girl bully not using whatever levers she has to maintain that social status?
Possible, but I don’t think it’s a giant leap to think otherwise.
Mind you, I don’t think she’d have been particularly homophobic herself, just using what comes to hand.
“An Oberyn…? Oh, you mean a badass fan favourite ensemble darkhorse that gets the fans’ hopes up only to heartlessly crush them by killing him off in the most gruesome and ignoble way possible just so the author can enjoy and feast off the outraged fan tears!”
“Wait… I’m a bi? Oh my goodness! I’m Bi!” or some similar thought process. It will tell us a bit about her upbringing if she has self-esteem issues for fitting into what she might have been either taught or had decided for herself was ‘abnormal’.
To the people fearing the worst, I think it’s okay. Billie’s face in the final panel isn’t sad, or angry, or confused, she’s SURPRISED. It’s probably just sinking in that she’s maybe bi.
Labels on sexuality are oftentimes very helpful, as they help you understand that you’re not alone. But they are also often bullshit, as the label becomes just as important as the people you love, which labels should never do.
It’s so easier to date guys than girls if you are a girl.
Similiar it’s easier to date guys if you are a guy than girls.
Ending result, dating girls is hard.
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…It was basically exactly like this for me. Liking boys never really stood out to me as something I had to cram into my identity right away. I guess I never found the time to completely get acquainted with the fact, even after I had been seeing my boyfriend for a while.
But then before I know it, I’m standing there, halfway ready for the big date – the first real date with my most treasured partner, gosh, and my first date ever, and– and then the choice of word hits me, like, inevitably. A boy? It’s almost like I didn’t expect it. We’d been through thick and thin together, we were close enough to eachother to know for sure that we really wanted to do things like dinners and going out and having experiences together, and then about half an hour before the arrangement it’s like I had to do a double take and just wonder how this happened. How strange! A gay date! It’s going to be a dude on the other side of the table! Inexplicable. This could not have been foreseen.
You’re not Ana Chronistic!
Let’s see who he really is, gang!
(Rips off face)
A skull! It was Skeletor all along!
Well Spotted!
It’s as if this post, being by someone other than Ana Chronistic, were out of place in some indescribable way. Like it doesn’t jibe with our current reality.
Like it was from another time…
It’s probably a result of social conditioning, we see dates all the time on TV and its always heterosexual couples going to dinner and a movie, despite the fact a movie is a terrible way to get to know someone.
Though I suppose an argument could be made you can judge their taste based on the movie they pick, or how they respond to yours.
I think the movie is a way to easily give you a shared experience, it’s bonding without having to do too much.
Plus society used to really frown on being alone together, not to mention having an option to make out, so, a socially-acceptable dark room may be a plus.
Unrelated to what you`re actually saying (sorry!), but even though it makes no sense in the context I can`t stop seeing “way to easily” as a typo of “way too easily”. It`s important everyone knows this, honest.
I mean, the only bad part about it is the order. It should be a movie, then dinner, as you’ll have something to talk about during dinner, and you’ll probably be hungry from only having had candy/popcorn for the last two hours.
Also, in regards to gay dating, I mean . . . yes, societal norms may make it weird for you for fifteen minutes before you start enjoying yourself/panicking that your date is miles out of your league, but fifteen minutes of awkwardness is preferable to a lifetime of disappointment in your life choices, methinks.
… also it’s not like you’re NOT being awkward at hetero first dates for the first fifteen minutes 😉
That’s why I prefer to skip the first date and move straight into the relationship. Skips the awkwardness.
Kind of like Ruth and Billie did. Though preferably without the sexual assault and the suicide pact.
that’s the tricky part, innit?
I don’t know; I have fond remembrances of going out for a coffee or what until like 2 am with friends to completely dissect the symbolism of a movie after having seen it. Mind you, helped that most of us had art or theatre backgrounds, one way or another.
Sadly, the last movie I saw that really had some symbolic meat in the details that one could get one’s teeth into was Bram Stoker’s Dracula in 1992 (some great symbolism there is the little details, like Lucy’s costumes being decorated with snakes, or being inspired by lizards–very reptile-themed, while Mina’s had leaves on most of hers)–until I just watched The Shape of Water the day before last, which is fantastic and also which has some absolutely wonderful symbolism with the use of colour etc that I can finally really sink my teeth into again.
I’m so out of practise; but it’s sooo fun! 😀
Geez, dudes, really? Guy lays out his heart and shares how this same experience felt, and you’re gonna just completely ignore that for that tired “you’re not Jen Aside/Ana Vhronisitic” joke? She doesn’t make the first comment every day, anyway.
But CC, thanks for sharing that – it makes me feel a little better to see such a reaction in a more neutral fashion; I can’t shake the feeling that Billie is going to springboard this revelation into freaking out and breaking up with Ruth. That whole “wait, gay? Uh, no, not me!” And given that Billie is ditzy enough to not believe in the concept of bisexuality, that doesn’t seem like an unfounded fear, but I appreciated your story as an example of such a realization leading to honest reflection.
I had a weird backwards version of this. “Coming out” as a lesbian was no big deal–But when I fell in love with a man, years after establishing my sexual identity? THAT threw me. I had a panic attack the first time we kissed because I could not rationalize my former identity with my new reality. I have a hard time explaining to people that I feel queer, but I’m married to a dude. Nowadays I just refer them to Erika Moen’s DAR.
I was about to ask if this was Erika Moan
Pun intentional?
That does sound like a page from her life. Well, her life-in-comic-form. I don’t know her but she’s written some very cathartic stuff.
I hope the date went well 🙂
Dang, that sounds amazing. I can imagine I’ll think the same way someday but with “guys” in place of “boys”.
As a trans person who (pretty much for that reason) hadn’t started dating seriously until well into adulthood, I kinda had that experience more than once. “Holy shit, I’m in an *actual* relationship with an *actual girl*.” “Oh my god, I’m flirting with a guy who *knows I’m a guy*.”
Maybe she is not sure if she is bi our lesbian anymore. It’s not her first date with a girl.
No, but she’s always considered herself
normalstraight before, not bisexual. Everyone just tries girls sometimes.I think that wall of denial may be cracking.
Yeah, I think you’re right.
“Wait, what do you mean, ‘everyone’ doesn’t get ‘curious’?”
Gonna need that Leafs dress sooner than later, Joyce.
Don’t think about your past Billie, it never helps anyone in Webcomic World
“uh, what are we supposed to do there ? I don’t know, only dated boys”
“Oh shit… who pays for dinner?!” -Billie, probably
Who opens the door? Who drives? Who stays home and takes care of the kids? WHO TAKES THE ROLE OF THE GENDER NOT PRESENT!?!
-Actual quote from my brother when talking about a date with a guy-
That’s why representation is important, so people aren’t lost 🙂
Uh oh….
“I have a bad feeling about this.”
…wait no my Ruth gravatar makes this worse
“… what do girls like?”
videe games, if tumblr and twitter are any indication
I’m a girl, and I like video games, so so far the theory checks out! 🎮😄
Well then, we have 100% confirmation from our sample group.
🎶 I’m every woman, it’s all in meeeeeee 🎶
nice!
The Kinsey Sicks know what girls like.
https://g.co/kgs/F2xcJ5
Er, that was supposed to be a link to the music video.
https://youtu.be/_Jng5tQzXGw
What about “Girls just wanna have fun”?! (I’m a ditz with html links, so I won’t even try)
Which means video games. So the theory still checks out.
And here I always thought the theory was – thin at one end, thick in the middle and thin at the other end.
Kle A
That is Anne Elk’s theory, it is hers and belongs to her,
and she owns it and what it is, too.
That is a fantastic band name.
Femurs.
Well, based on the last 40 years experience, not me.
Cannons
It’s the sensation that’s sweeping the nation.
Take both of them, Billie, because why not?
‘What do you even DO on a date if you’re not pretending to be fascinated with everything he says?”
reminds me of that silly tumblr thread where they were saying when gay men have to both pay for the bill (so the obvious solution is to fight to the death for it) while gay women don’t have to pay at all but they can’t sit down because no one pulled a chair out for them :p
Dear gods, you’d think the people involved in saying such nonsense, if serious, had either never experienced an actual date or else had grown up in the most insular traditionalist communities on the planet and never left.
I’d say it was a joke built around stereotypical behavior expectations, but then again it was Tumblr so who knows.
it was 100% a joke, I remember that thread
’twas a joke making fun of those very traditions and gender roles
Perhaps raised on pre-1968 RomComs?
okay but real talk a lot of my early girl on girl experiences were like… both of us leaning into the kiss 10% and then just sitting there, like… well, shit. We did figure it out eventually, generally.
I know we met her sorta-ex from highschool, I am curious if they just never formally dated, like her thing with Ruth so far, or if they did, and this is a “haven’t done this since-” thing.
I am thinking the former, just for Walky’s “I guess drama is sexually transmitted” or something like that. been a while since I’ve seen that punchline, so I don’t remember the exact phrasing. got the impression Billie let them down in a big way, so probably not a formal relationship.
My head-canon is that Billie didn’t consider Alice her real girlfriend, but Alice did.
Considering her reaction to seeing Billie again, I’d say thats correct.
…crap.
That scene just got a lot more umpmf
Is that good huh or bad huh?
Is it a huh as in “I just realized I’m dating a woman. Neat” or huh as in “Now that I think about it I’m not into this”
I think it’s a “maybe I’m bisexual” huh.
definitely a “maybe im bi” huh
PSA: You may be bisexuals if you romatically date both women & men .
It could be huh as in “I’ve been talking to myself for an unnaturally long time and people are beginning to stare, better stop.”
…that seems unlikely though.
Billie’s never thought of herself as a lesbian, or even a bisexual. She’s a normal hetero girl, who, As All Girls Do (as she once explained to Joyce, causing one of Joyce’s Three Great Freak-Out Faces), occasionally gets ‘bi-curious’ but IS NOT A GAY. Going on a Date with Ruth would officially contravene that, IN PUBLIC.
This ^^ is exactly how I interpret it.
Isn’t it the Four Great Freak-Out Faces by this point? Remember, Jacob’s church added one.
I have a feeling she’s not really thought about what dating a girl would mean and didn’t think past the sneaking around with Ruth.
*looks for the Patti Labelle records*
Hijacks the hacked Muzak to play “Real Live Girl” written by Cy Coleman and Carolyn Leigh.
“Pardon me miss
But I’ve never done this
With a real live girl”
So I’m guessing that “huh” means Billie’s never actually gone on a date with a girl before. Or does it mean something else?
ive been on a couple dates before but they never felt like this. they felt more like “yeah i guess” now that i think about it. wondering if ill feel like this when i go on a “for real” date
For some reason Billie makes me think of Akane Tendo here.
I was told there would be no strings …
At first I was between reading that as a “Wait am I not straight” huh and a “what are the rules for dates when you’re both girls” huh. I’m leaning towards the latter now.
Now, to be fair I don’t believe in “rules” for dates, and I would not know what they are if I did. But I have had that experience of feeling like I should know the rules, like, should i hold her hand? When should I hold her hand? If someone looks at as funny, do I drop her hand or hold it tighter or punch them in the face with our joined hands? I asked her out so I feel like I should pay, but she keeps insisting yo pay for at least every other thing, so?
Dates are stressful, man.
Honestly there is exactly one real hard and fast rule in dating, and really all interpersonal interactions, be respectful of and toward everyone involved.
That aside, yeah I read it as “what are the expected norms” too,
Also, yes, dates are quite stressful especially when it’s all new to one or when one hasn’t really dated in quite a while.
I was going that same direction “What are the rules when you’re both girls”, I hadn’t really considered the “Huh, am I not straight?” thing. Maybe being CIS myself it just seems like a no-brainer. “You’ve been romantically involved with her for a while, why is this a strange concept?”
I sometimes wonder how I’d deal with being attracted to men, and if it would be some kind of struggle for me. Knowing me, it’d probably be a “Huh, well that’s a thing.” and moving on with my life. I’ve never much cared for fitting in.
fyi, cis isn’t an acronym, and it doesn’t mean straight – it’s the opposite of transgender.
It might not have been intentionally capitalized. There are some words my phone assumes are acronyms, then I look back at something I typed and it looks like I’m screaming random words in the middle of sentences.
I did actually know that, it just cumbersome to write out “Cis-White-Hetero-Male” every time, but honestly I should at least write out “Cis-Hetero” to cover all the basic framework. Sorry, thanks for calling me on that.
Cishet is less typing, and seems to be a word now 🙂
I think it’s more “I’m not straight?”
Seems ridiculous to us from outside, but she’s made a few comments that point in that direction.
I don’t think it’s ridiculous.
It is kinda funny, though.
That “huh” sounds like she has no idea what to do different -if anything- on a date with a girl.
Yeah, i read it as a “what do you do on a date with a girl?”
“Go with teal, Billie”
…Did I miss a mock-complaining twitter post by Willis four months ago where he said, “Sure, I could draw several strips with Billie in one of her favorite colors, or I could draw several strips with her in a color she’s never worn before”?
Looking for something else, I wound up on Walkypedia and realized that the teal blouse is exactly the same as Alice’s. I suppose this would count as Explaining the Joke if I’d understood the joke to begin with.
I for one think she should go with plaid.
And of course Ruth will be wearing plaid too.
And since they are going to Galassos’ the waiter will be Becky dressed in DOUBLE PLAID!!!
Oh no. Billie figured it out.
She’ll have to get her haircut, now.
And rent the U-Haul. (But not until after the next date.)
I mean
They basically did that even before the first date
(#WillisWritesClichés)
(#ImJokingDontBanMe)
Yeah, I don’t think this relationship is going places. Relationships based on mutual desperation usually fall apart after the desperation goes away, because there is often little else holding them together. As seems to be the case here.
No they love each other.
I think they’re trying to build a foundation that isn’t just mutual desperation, that’s part of what a date is for.
Man does that face indicate Billie is just now realizing she may have feelings for boys & girls? She’s gonna have to come up with a name for such a thing, she already has the title girlfriend, now she just needs a bi line. I’m sure she will figure something out.
On a semi related note, you would be amazed at how many Dick’s I sucked before it occurred to me I am pretty clearly not as straight as I had been lead to believe. Weird how that works out
Growing up I had notebooks full of naked women I had drawn but I was pretty sure I was straight
My “straight” ass had a crush on a girl for three years and would call her after school to tell her how pretty she had looked that day before I figured some things out.
Also, I read and passed around manga with semi-slutty depictions of girls. But I was like, “No, see, we’re girls, so it’s fine if we read this.”
Turns out, none of us were straight. About half of us weren’t girls.
That was supposed to be “semi-smutty.” This is now a thread of me replying to myself.
This is just to combo-break. >_>
Well, my best friend and I did the same (even playing hentai or dating games)…heck, I think we still sometimes do the same, though we’re both straight. Doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy it, or can’t talk about it. Maybe there was a time in between I crushed on her (as I’m demi), but we’ve kept our friendship going for nearly twenty years, so I just basically experienced it as “Oh you like that. I like you, so I’ll just look into that and tell you what I think” – and we both ended up liking it. The same with another friend and reading yaoi. Although since I grew older I look much more critically at things like that, our primary interest in those things now is our shared interest in toring them apart in discussions.
I had naked and otherwise sexy/cute woman sketches and was pretty sure I was asexual, a term I actually invented for myself from Latin roots because visibility is aggressively bad.
I’m still pretty sure I’m ace, but I also think the sexualisation of women has an impact regardless of your sexuality
(sorry, not to detract from your self-realisation, I’m glad art played a part and you have that record that’s kinda cool 🙂 )
I personally believe that we are allowed to express our interests in any way, especially through art or hobbies, no matter our supposed social role or sexuality.
E.g. I sometimes (used to) read very brutal and bloody manga – although I’d never want to ever harm a person in my life. Still, I pretty much enjoy them, when they have an interesting story. A friend of mine’s ace but loves romances, especially gay ones with men. So probably sexuality itself has an impact on us.
When I was a teenager there was that brief period where I was VERY passionate about how much I loved boobs, in a purely heterosexual way. I don’t… I don’t know.
Who’s gonna hold the door open? HOW WILL YOU ENTER BUILDINGS?
One time in college I was going into my dorm, and this guy wasn’t far behind me, so I stepped back and held the door open for him. And he wouldn’t go in. I’ve seen/had/heard of it happening where someone holds the door and the person goes through the door next to it instead, but this was a single door. So he was just standing there, looking uncomfortable. And I was just standing there, holding the door and realizing I was done with class for the day, so you know what, I can wait. I can hold this door all fucking day. I probably wasn’t going to get to that paper tonight anyway.
Eventually he went through the doorway. It was immensely satisfying.
Hah!
You absolute monster – you purposely and probably permanently damaged his fragile self-esteem 😉
For self-identifying as tough and strong and stoic and whatnot… the male ego is fragile as shit.
That’s not even an accusation against men (I share as many of those stupid beliefs as I haven’t yet been able to shed). It’s an accusation against masculinity. We really should find less stupid things to take pride in.
I once had a man being uncomfortable with me holding the door for him while he was carrying a box in both hands 😂
There must be something really demeaning in only having two hands….
I speak for the Spider People, and can tell you that having only two hands is the greatest shame that can happen to someone.
It is why that Parker fellow got banished to human society.
To be fair, we also think of him as a bit of a dweeb.
Thank you for sending us your finest citizen.
I’m so glad that, for as backwards as my area is… door holding is something that is universal.
Someone’s close behind you, and there’s not a security reason to not hold the door (I work at a facility where security is sometimes taken Very Seriously™, you’re not supposed to hold certain doors for anyone)?
You hold the damn door, at least so that they don’t have to open it themselves (not necessarily let them go first, but you at least hold it until they’ve gotten the opportunity to grab it themselves). You definitely don’t worry about your gender relative to the person who’s holding the door’s gender, or vice versa.
Agreed.
I don’t like making people uncomfortable like that, and I might end up having to hold the door for a whole bunch of people which makes me uncomfortable, so I’ve mastered the way of holding the door open for the people behind me while I’m going through it.
I have done this many times at work, working in a supermarket and more times than i can count have held a door open for someone carrying stuff as well as pushing a trolly, even had a door opened for me by a woman and i didnt even blink a eye, i think its time people stopped being held back by gender and social norms, they are all being broken down each and every day so why keep holding onto them?
Did Billie and Alice never actually date?
I’m sure they had lots of drunk, hot cheerleader sex in a self destructive manner.
So, sure!
Depends on who you ask, I suspect.
I’d guess no formal dates – announced as such at the time, but I suspect Alice went on lots of dates with Billie while Billie was just hanging out with Alice (and as Bagge says having lots of drunk, hot cheerleader sex in a self destructive manner.
Teal or cyan… “the Dress”
Teal and cyan are both blue you know, almost the same color. What were you going for here?
*deletes pedantic color theory comment*
In have emailed Pantone color charts to people who said “Team X and Team Y wear the same blue”. Don’t de-pedant on our account.
Out of the blue I cannot answer your question.
*bursts through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man* I consider teal to be more of a green but color descriptors are subjective and we can both be right
I’m seeing aquamarine, or possibly turquoise.
It’s black and gold!
Lucy in the background: “SQUEEEEEEEE!!!!”
Her squee-ing has gone hypersonic, soon every dog in a 3-mile radius will start howling.
For some reason, my boyfriend always insists on not calling our sceduled quality time together ‘dates’, because that belongs to not-yet-going-steady couple activities. But he apartcipites all the same, so it doesn’t matter.
I think Billie still, when she thinks of it at all, considers herself Straight, though with Occasional Exceptions (like Robin originally in the Walkyverse). She knows she’s fooled around with girls, but she considers it no big deal — something that every straight girl does eventually. But now that the word “Date” is being attached to this relationship, it transforms it in her mind into a capital-letter Romance, which no longer fits her conception of herself. Which is going to confuse her, especially since she doesn’t think of bisexuality as a thing. She still likes boys, or thinks she does. She’s tried (half-heartedly) to throw herself at at least 3 boys (I remember Joe, Danny, and Tony), and was rejected each time, which hurt her self-esteem and self-conception as the Popular Cheerleader. She’s been in college about 6 weeks, and her first official Date is with a girl….
I could be wrong though. Maybe it’s just because she doesn’t know what to do on a date with a girl, like everyone else said?
I think you’re right, since her reaction to Ruth’s brother suggesting she was bi was “that’s not a real thing, wtf you thinking” and she seemed to think of it as “sometimes I like a girl”. Like you said, her previous stuff with Alice wasn’t serious dating, just…fun! But now that she’s gonna go on a date and thinking about it, is like “…I’m looking forward to a date with a girl. But I’m basically straight. But I’m in love with a woman…” Danny quick! Come teach her about bisexuality!
I wouldn’t say Billie’s (declined) offer, made actually in Danny’s bed, was half-hearted.
I wonder if she’s done that before.
Not half-hearted, but not real interest in or attraction to Danny either. “You’ll do”. More tied to her self-esteem and self-conception than anything.
Honestly, if we didn’t have Word of God, I’d be wondering if Billie was figuring out she was actually a lesbian and not really interested in men at all. Her expressed interest has seemed very performative. “I’m a hot cheerleader and that’s shown by having sex with all the boys.” I don’t think she’s ever mentioned a past relationship with a boy, outside of direct sexual context. (Nor has Walky, who knew her in school.)
Of course she’s straight. She’s Head Cheerleader and cheerleaders are straight party girls who get all the boys they want. And if they sometimes fool around with girls too, that’s okay. Everyone does that.
“You’ll do.”
“Oh, recently rebuffed ex-head cheerleader, you really know how to get a guy’s motor running!”
I’d say her interest, flirtation in Ethan “And your boyfriend is this?” Her body language was all “ooooh boy, lemme at ‘im!”
I wonder if it’s not so much that she saw herself as straight with exceptions as that her relationships with girls tended to be less formal? Like, either due to internalized misogyny and internalized queerphobia, or closet pressure, she never actually bothered with as much Serious Courtship Ritual when it was a female partner. She may not even have realized she was Dating boys and Casually Sexing girls until just this moment. Like, she’s been on dates and she’s been with girls and she is only suddenly noticing that she’s never done those in combination? Though I could be blowing smoke, I’m having trouble remembering what’s been said about Billie’s romantic history.
Remarkably little. She had some kind of relationship with Alice in high school – apparently sexual and relatively long term. Alice is now apparently dating another girl and thinks of Billie as poison. She seems to have taken the relationship more seriously than Billie.
Billie’s also given the impression of being casually sexually active with boys, throwing herself at Danny, talking about getting drunk and having sex at parties, etc.
If anything, I’d guess her boy partners have been the very casual ones, while at least Alice was a more serious thing, though Billie may have treated it as “friend with benefits” while Alice was in love with her.
Which doesn’t counter what you suggest, just a slightly different angle: the times with girls were more like friends hanging out (and having sex) than formal dates, especially if it was kept as kind of a secret relationship.
The times with boys, when they weren’t just drunken party encounters, may have been more formal dates, but still mostly attempts to get into her pants.
A new adventure! Uncharted territory for Billie!
I’ve got a feeling that Billie never thought through the implications of falling in love with Ruth before this moment!
Billie, engage in serious self-reflection? while in the midst of NRE?
(which is, I think, finally wearing off a bit, allowing for… well, this.)
Seriously. I’m starting to worry. Where’s Ana?
Probably still in class, sitting behind Walky.
Don’t worry about if it’ll be any different, Billie! Just gift her a bunch of fresh femurs, I’m sure she’ll love that.
Wrap them up like a bouquet!
Make sure to get the little packet of FemurFresh so they stay looking nice in the base longer.
Ooohhh but that’s an interesting last panel…
Could be read a bit negatively, but I’m hoping it’s just an allusion to the whole *chapter title* and a bit of self-realisation.
Billie is the sort of personality who would have persecuted people below her on the social ladder for coming out of the closet, yes. It should be interesting to see how she reacts to suddenly being in the same situation as her many high school victims.
All the while having drunken self-destructive sex with Alice.
Yeah, that fits.
It does, doesn’t it?
She may have been a bully in high school, but what makes you think she’d bully someone for coming out? She didn’t know that bisexuals were a thing, and seemed a little uncomfortable thinking of herself as “not straight”, but it seems like a giant leap from that to bullying someone for coming out, given Billie’s completely chill reaction to Becky coming out extremely loudly.
Maybe, but a high school mean girl bully not using whatever levers she has to maintain that social status?
Possible, but I don’t think it’s a giant leap to think otherwise.
Mind you, I don’t think she’d have been particularly homophobic herself, just using what comes to hand.
Billie: “…for goodness sake… FINE”
Billie to Lucy: “You are a nerd, right? What’s an ‘Oberyn’?”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/lesbians/
“An Oberyn…? Oh, you mean a badass fan favourite ensemble darkhorse that gets the fans’ hopes up only to heartlessly crush them by killing him off in the most gruesome and ignoble way possible just so the author can enjoy and feast off the outraged fan tears!”
He had a BIT more development in the books…
Ooh, I’m interested in seeing what’s going through her head.
“Wait… I’m a bi? Oh my goodness! I’m Bi!” or some similar thought process. It will tell us a bit about her upbringing if she has self-esteem issues for fitting into what she might have been either taught or had decided for herself was ‘abnormal’.
She doesn’t believe being bi is a thing outside porn.
I personally want this to work between them, theres enough negative relationship stress in this comic already to add another one
For the love of, there’s not a lot of good going around in this comic right now.
Can we PLEASE let these two just be happy together? Like, forever? Please?
Jeeez…
The evolving facial expressions over 6 cells was excellent!
Hotcha!
To the people fearing the worst, I think it’s okay. Billie’s face in the final panel isn’t sad, or angry, or confused, she’s SURPRISED. It’s probably just sinking in that she’s maybe bi.
I’m disappointed we went this long without anyone making a reference to But I’m a Cheerleader.
Fuck, that’s a huge opportunity missed. I have no excuse, only shame and remorse.
SHAME
AND REMORSE!
Any news on Cerberus? Maybe I’ve just missed it because of the holidays confusion, but I haven’t seen her post in a while. 8/
She popped up for a couple of days IIRC – so most likely she’s just busy elsewhere? New semester and all that, I suppose. I hope she’s feeling better…
I haven’t seen her in a while. If she’s not come back by Sat, I’ll shoot her an email just to see if she’s alright.
Labels on sexuality are oftentimes very helpful, as they help you understand that you’re not alone. But they are also often bullshit, as the label becomes just as important as the people you love, which labels should never do.
There’s a world of difference between a cat being put into a box and a cat climbing into a box, from the cat’s perspective, as they say!
Totally using that quote sometime, thank you. 😀
It’s so easier to date guys than girls if you are a girl.
Similiar it’s easier to date guys if you are a guy than girls.
Ending result, dating girls is hard.
It shouldnt be that way though, it should be easy for everyone to date, but sadly we dont live in a ideal world…
Or some people are just bad at it.
…Your gravatar is ironic.
Also listen to the alt-text, Billie, teal is much fancier.