Well, the meme in the hover text certainly pinpoints a date you could not have written this before. And when you uploaded it, you had no idea that gorilla channel would be a thing.
I misinterpreted the comic on my first read, and thought “isn’t rapelling down from the roof a bit of an extreme reaction to two students getting a little overly friendly in public?”.
sorry for posting an unrelated comment again, but this is the only section I know that has many people who are not only reasonable, but are knowledgeable about this stuff.
what’s the most diplomatic and gentle way to say “that guy you’re seeing is a piece of shit”?
some context: this is an older guy who has told my friend she can’t do any of her hobbies: that anime is evil and that she shouldn’t dress in get favourite lolita fashion because those things are “childish” and she needs to “become a woman of God”. Oh and being a proper woman entails getting married and having children, even though 1) she’s been vocally not interested in children and 2) she has a disease that will kill her if she tried to carry a pregnancy to term. Her body is incapable of this, and she shouldn’t even try. She gets seizures just going through a normal workday and has to take a whole day off of she gets too tired.
this guy could not be setting off more red flags if he talked about cleansing the earth of sinners while polishing a rifle. what the fuck. I need to tell her he’s bad news
I don’t know how to properly approach that situation. The best thing I can think of is privately telling her “I don’t think the guy you’re seeing really has your best interests at heart and he’s sending up some red flags to me that a relationship with him wouldn’t be healthy.” And then calmly list for her the reasons you’ve listed above, while also framing it properly so that it doesn’t seem like an attack on the individual she’s seeing and instead a defense of her wants and needs. I wish I could be of more help. Also, holy shut you’re not wrong this guy your friend is seeing is a piece of shut and could very well be dangerous.
I can say that, but sadly I’m not sure it will sound very honest because I haven’t seen much of this friend since she joined this church. I’m not keen on religion myself
Um… joined a church, and her BF is telling her anime is evil and she should get married and have kids?
This may not be about a bad/abusive boyfriend, so much as her joining what’s basically a cult. She has a whole social structure and belief system locking her in. And sounds like she’s bought into it.
Within that society, this boyfriend is probably pretty normal, and a lot of the red flags are probably rooted in the religion rather than in his personal shittiness.
I don’t have any good advice on how to get people out of cults. As far as I can take it is: Even some large/mainstream Christian churches are full-on cults, and you should consider whether that is the main problem here. I hope others can suggest what to do / how to argue if this is the case.
Hm… one possible thought, I don’t know if it will work…
Seek out something that she used to believe was good/positive, that she still _feels_ is good/positive, and that her church believes is negative. Being gay or trans, or maybe just liberal, is likely against this church’s beliefs.
Without talking about the church, try to remind her of the person she was when she believed that her friends John and Jeff had a beautiful marriage. If she says “But it’s a sin” focus on her feelings, not her beliefs. Maybe that can drive in a sliver of a wedge.
Also, if you can get her talking enough, maybe look for what unfilled need in her life this church/community/belief structure is filling, and see whether something else can fill it. This one is less likely to work because you probably won’t have enough access to her.
Be careful if you do this. Churches (especially the more cultish ones) train their members to be resistant to this. Like it’s Satan acting through you to tempt them with the ways of the world. I met a former cult member once, who said her grandmother had been advised never to try to talk her out of the cult, just to tell her that if she ever needed her for anything, to call and she’d be there ASAP.
Yeah, you’ll want to be careful about pushing too hard. There’s resources and organizations out there specifically aimed at helping talk someone into leaving a cult. I think a lot of it might be applicable to getting someone to leave an abusive relationship.
I can’t remember where I heard about them before, but here is a decent article that seems to be going over that kind of thing. Basically adds to what Huehuetotl said
Honestly, with cults, from people I’ve known who were in them, you don’t see the flaws until you’re ready to see them. When you’re so fed up and done with their bullshit you’re ready to accept that they might be playing you.
The best thing you can do is be supportive to them. Don’t let them drag you into anything dangerous, but keep an eye on them, tell them you’re there to talk if they need to, and remember who they were before the cult.
honestly yeah, I’m getting some cult vibes here since this asshole is essentially cutting her off from all hobbies she likes and the people who shared those hobbies (including me) to “shape” her into something HE thinks is right
I’d suggest exploring with your friend to better understand how she views the relationship. Often people recognize when they’re in an unhealthy relationship, especially when they talk about it to someone who’s non-judgmental. If you can support her own dissatisfaction with the relationship, that can often be more effective than telling people what to do/your views on their life. (Of course it can vary based on your relationship with the person; if she often comes to you for advice, then perhaps she’d be more open to it in this case, for example.)
I went through something kind of similar to what you’re describing a few years ago and I really mishandled it, so I took some classes on healthy relationships vs. abusive relationships and what you wrote looks like pretty text book abuser behavior. The situation you’re in is an incredibly difficult one, and there are no guaranteed right answers, but I don’t think that trying to tell her that she’s dating someone shitty is going to go well even if you are perfectly gentle and diplomatic. What might work better is to try to point out very specific behaviors of his that concern you to her, and focus on the behaviors rather than his character. This probably won’t be enough for her to realize that she should end the relationship, but it might help her see that sooner. Beyond that, you should try to be available and be patient. In general, abusers tend to isolate victims from their support groups (family, friends, etc). Making sure that she knows your still around even when she feels alone will be a huge help to her. And this could go on for a while, and it will be difficult to watch someone you care about being hurt over and over. But don’t give up, she may eventually need your help, and if you aren’t there when she needs you, you will regret it. I hope some of this helps you at least a little, and that everything works out for you and your friend.
A good classic resource to start with is the article on the Darth Vader Boyfriend, which is about how to talk to a friend whose boyfriend is Darth Vader. The analogy is from this imagined conversation with Luke Skywalker:
“Luke, your dad is totally evil.”
“There’s good in him. I’ve felt it.”
“Luke, he blew up a planet just to make a point.”
“There’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
“Luke, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but he severed your hand. From your arm. He cut it off.”
“Dueling to the death is just how we relate. You wouldn’t understand it. Now that we both have prosthetic robot limbs, it’s only brought us closer together.”
“Luke, he lured your friends into a trap so that he could murder them in front of you. We had to be rescued by Ewoks. It was embarrassing.”
“Yeah, that was pretty bad, I admit! But there’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
Did Darth Vader change when he actually believed he had a chance of living, or did he decide since he would die soon anyways he wanted to die thinking of himself as a good guy.
He was still in good health (or “good” health, considering he needed cybernetics to stay alive – alright, so his vital cybernetics were still in good shape) when he killed the Emperor, for what it’s worth; sure Vader was missing a cybernetic hand at that moment, but by that point it wasn’t even his original cybernetic hand – or the replacement for his original, or even the replacement for the first replacement if I’m not mistaken.
Then the Emperor’s lightning fried Vader’s vital cybernetics as he threw the Emperor to his death.
Not committing an evil act is not a good act though. Like Vader never actually DID anything to merit redemption or show there was good in him he just didn’t brutally murder his own son.
I guess he killed the emperor? That probably went a long way towards bringing the empire down. Doing so also saved Luke’s life. But yeah, he doesn’t have much chance to DO anything with redemption because he died almost right away.
I like Leia’s answer in the old EU. “Maybe Vader had died heroically but ten minutes of contrition didn’t make up for years of atrocities. I’m not your teacher or your confessor, so take your weak Force ghost apologies and please find someone who cares.”
There are many ways to analyze it and argue that Vader never meaningfully redeemed himself. It is however a common interpretation and definitely seems to be the one intended in the film itself – particularly with Anakin appearing as a Force Ghost.
Vader didn’t kidnap Han and Leia to murder them, he kidnapped them to draw Luke to him. Leia and Han were going to be left on Bespin under Lando’s supervision. (But then Han was given to Boba Fett, not dead.)
Vader *did* cut off Luke’s hand, but that’s hardly a thing in a galaxy where robotic prosthetics seem to be commonplace (and he also didn’t just kill him like he so easily could have) – In fact, the only reason he wanted Luke to be turned was that the Emperor said he was to be killed…
Details people… without details you end up with.. well… The Last Jedi! 🙂
Very difficult. All red flags up, but still, telling a friends there current so is an asshole and should be avoided is not a god strategy.
A friends was being had by her last lover, emotionally and financially, and the best results of talking with her were when I held back the shock and fear in listening and ask questions.
The description in the captain awkward article above rang a lot of bells and I would really like to translate her part of the description (as she is still confused about how she got into such a bad situation a year after she ended that relationship). Also, there was a time when I ask her not to tell me details (because I didn’t trust myself to not end up shouting at her that she should leave he lover asap and I knew that wouldn’t help).
Have hope, courage and step lightly.
I think full-on poisoning would be justified in such a case, but that’s probably not helpful cuz you don’t sound psychotic, and poisoning is generally frowned upon. But good gravy, fuck that guy! With a big, unwashed rubber dick.
> what’s the most diplomatic and gentle way to say “that guy you’re seeing is a piece of shit”?
The secret is that you don’t want to say that, not even politely, not even indirectly. If you attack the ‘love of her life’, she is going to defend him. If you regularly attack the guy, then suddenly you’re ‘biased’ in all future advice-giving.
Focus on your friend. Focus on keeping her supported so she isn’t leaning entirely on this guy. Be a sounding board, be a space where she can express herself fully without ridicule or judgment or override. And probably toughest of all…. Let her work through it, however long it takes, because the only one who can make that decision for her is her.
If there’s things she doesn’t know about, things he does behind her back, by all means tell her, but leave the value judgment whether something is good or bad to her. It’s the only way it’ll stick.
Hm, this is probably the hardest part because I want to grab her by the shoulders and yell “run away woman, run away!” but in reality that’s counter productive
I know it’s hard, but she has to be the hero of her own story, and part of that means she controls when it happens. One thing that I think is worth reiterating is the importance of being non-judgmental. I’ve spoken with people who have finally reached the place of recognizing how awful the person they’re with is and wanting to leave, but feeling that everyone around them either supports their abuser or thinks they’re stupid for being with them in the first place. That feeling of shame can be really strong, and you don’t want to feed into it.
I think one general thing you can do is to prepare spaces where your friend can spend time where the boyfriend does NOT have control. Either big ones, like a con or a regular anime night, or small ones like a coffee or lunch, or just calling and being available on the phone.
Be prepared for pushback from his side, though. Either directly (“leave my girl alone”) or indirectly (“my boyfriend says I shouldn’t spend time with you…”).
I mean no disrespect… but, have you asked this before?
I have the most AMAZING sensation of deja-vu here…
So much so that I’m not convinced it is Deja Vu, but an actual memory…?
I have asked a similar question before about a friend in an abusive situation, but that was another friend and the abuser was her father, not her boyfriend.
But you’re right: this is the second time I’m having major concerns about a religious man abusing a friend of mine
I would say something like ‘Hey, I’m a little worried about your relationship. I don’t think he has your best interests at heart because it feels to me like he isn’t respecting your individuality and your personal choices. I would like to hear your opinion though.’
If she asks for why you think so, bring up individual moments where he has said and done things disrespectful to her; e.g. pushing for children when she both does not want them and because her condition means she would die if she tried, the way he has demonised her hobbies as ‘childish’ though these things are harmless and have no impact on his life.
If she brings up dissatisfaction herself, listen to her and validate her feelings, that she is allowed to feel this way, don’t let her undermine her own feelings as ‘silly’ or ‘petty’ when they are a reasonable reaction.
If she becomes defensive or says it isn’t your place to get involved, don’t push, back off and say ‘If you are happy with your relationship that’s all that matters, but I wanted to share my concerns. I will back off but I will still be here to listen if you need me.’
Most importantly: Never attack his character directly. You want to win her over so she sees you aren’t a threat or just attacking him due to personal distaste with his personality but that you are a friend she can rely on to listen to her and yes, this might mean having to back off, be patient, and arrange small meet-ups of just the two of you. It might mean strategising so that you remain in contact, or even that you have to visit the church she goes to yourself just so you can say hi to her and check how she is doing if contact drops even further.
The hardest thing you will have to do though is wait. She has to work through this herself and if she doesn’t want to listen to you or your opinion, you can’t force her to hear it. You can’t force her to agree with you. If he is as bad as you say, some of these things probably don’t sit right with her either, but you will still have to wait until she decides herself that he isn’t right for her because you have to respect her personal choices.
I don’t think I’d approach it as a relationship issue because I think it’s more serious than that and I doubt you will have much luck convincing her to dump him just because you express personal distaste. Perhaps saying something like hey I’ve been worried about you, you don’t seem to be doing the things you love anymore and you seem stressed – something turning her into her own self-reflection – would be helpful.
All of it sounds terrible but wanting her to risk her life cause it might theoretically give her something she doesn’t want is the worst. We’ve already covered the world and there are enough women who are both able to and desire to have children that we don’t need to pressure anyone who is not both to try for children yet alone someone who neither wants children nor is able to have children.
I think the internet told me.
What you need to do is find out how to keep in touch while not ruining yourself.
Actually if you can find a way to say I will do what I can if this doesn’t work out without telling her you don’t think it will work out or claiming you think it will work out. Which I don’t know how to do and this will be more effective if you find some way to keep the line open preferably something that is not itself a sin in her books.
Unfortunately the methods that are most effective in helping people in those situations tend to go against a lot of peoples instincts.
Actually a part of me wants to know whether those instincts are counterproductive or whether usually someone will tell the emperor when he is naked and often that is all it takes, but that one con man managed to really convince that those few emperors that not seeing the cloth meant you were terrible, and got them to banish or at least dismiss everyone who didn’t pretend to see the cloth.
My point is it let someone else provide her with the warnings, chances are there will be someone since a child can do it, give her someone who will not ridicule her for her mistake.
On the one hand it will definitely help Amber realize that she isn’t “the evil one”. On the other hand we don’t know how the AmaziGirl alter will respond.
“Pardon me, citizens. You might want to consider that the sanctity of love is best preserved by privacy. Perhaps you might find an indoor setting more … conducive?”
“Gosh, thanks, Caped Crusader! You’re so right!”
Let’s face it, the way your day is going the professor would be using the cane to smuggle money he was stealing from campus charity to the orphans with cancer fund. Or something.
Actually, that would definitely be a reason for someone to sit Amber down and give her a stern talking-to. Failure to be able to differentiate assault from PDA is pretty much a red flag, IMO.
It turns out that:
*) You are right, and the phrase is “must come” (actually “with great power there must also come — great responsibility!”)
*) You are wrong. In the original comic, it was not Uncle Ben, it was the narrator..
Here’s a newsflash, Amber: You suck at being a villain. Basically, you have too strong a sense of justice and of right and too strong a need to ensure the crap that blights your life isn’t repeated for anyone else.
but, but, she sucks and is terrible at everything, everyone says so! especially her golden alter and the imaginary image of her father! are you saying the voices in her head are wrong?
She’s not trying to be super, she’s not trying to be a villain, she’s trying to discredit her alter ego. Unfortunately, alters are pretend, it’s you (her) all the way down. As she goes to stop whatever is going on, I see her running by a professor using a walker and not even noticing.
yup. I’m guessing that was someone who doesn’t read the comment section regularly. I’d forgotten for a moment that most people don’t know *anything* about dissociation.
Are you thinking that Amber has DID or are you taking my words out of context to call my phrasing “discrediting”?
I apologize to anyone who was offended by my phrasing. I don’t want to trigger anyone by explaining in great detail why I believe what I do. My adopted daughter has DID. I’ve been a participant and speaker at Healing Together Conference. I encourage you to attend if you can. My partner and I will not be attending this year. http://www.aninfinitemind.com/healing-together.html
There’s definitely a common perception here that Amber has DID. I don’t think, even without that, words were really taken out of context, but I’m glad that’s not what you meant.
Now that I think about it, BPD might still be a plausible diagnosis too – iirc it can include memory loss – but I feel like DID is more likely (can’t remember why though) and it’s gotten bad enough OSDD seems unlikely.
I object. Mostly because it’s a fine character weakness.
Amazi-Girl has always been spoken about in the third person by Amber. Amazi-Girl is a superhero, even if she is the concoction of a broken person. And Amber may not have total control over that anymore given intensely she’s fought to be another person under the mask. The urge to act like a superhero while Amazi-Girl may be stronger than a lot of people’s urge to brush their teeth after doing so twice a day for how many years or to drive on the wrong side of the road overseas.
Amber’s not in that particular driver’s seat anymore.
Except Amber and Amazi-Girl both very wrongly believe that Amber is trash, and that Amazi-Girl is the only good part of her.
Even if they aren’t separate personalities (and SOME type of dissociative disorder would seem the only expansion for her waking up this morning and learning Amazi-Girl had gone out on patrol during the night from social media because she couldn’t remember it) this of less “fine character weakness”, and more “deeply painful belief that is very harmful to her”
Showing – even accidentally – that she can do good as Amber is something she needed. Amazi-Girl isn’t gone, and she’s got a lot to struggle and work through yet, but hopefully this moment will help her clear out enough space to be happy for a bit before the next plunge into misery. Maybe even make the next dive easier to get through. At the very least, it might lead to Amber and Amazi-Girl starting to deconstruct the narrative that Amazi-Girl is good and Amber is bad and AG needs to protect everyone else from her.
Amber is not normally in the driver’s seat when Amazi-Girl is doing her thing. This time she very clearly is. All the indicators are there, the internal monologue is clear, she’s got cheekblushes and AG isn’t tagged.
This is Amber in the costume.
And yeah, the urge to act like a superhero is still there. Because that urge was originally Amber’s. Because Amber is a good person, despite her opinion.
(And she’s off Garbage Roof, so I can say that.)
Prediction time – Amber’s going to black out and Amazi-Girl will take control mid-confrontation. Since they’re no longer sharing memories, AG will suddenly find herself in the middle of a fight, and things will escalate…
One time I dressed as The Joker for halloween, and thought it would be fun to try and act somewhat in-character (more prankster than actual Joker, because I can’t stand the thought of actually hurting anyone). It lasted all of two *seconds*, and then manic-pixie-oblivious-girl was back in charge as usual. 😛
Hey, in the last panel, see how Amazi-Girl’s legs thrust against the rooftop as her arms strain against the rope and her hips are rotated relative to her shoulders. That’s some fine figure drawing there. Just sayin’.
It also looks like she’s putting far more effort and caution into it than when Amazi-Girl does similar things. Which is a nice subtle bit of characterization in that fine figure drawing.
Partly of course because we wouldn’t see this shot of AG, just her dropping out of nowhere to break up the fight.
Loading ...
“Hey, stop doing bad stuff that I can stop from happening, I’m trying to prove how useless I am damn it”
<3
wranglin’ Youtube commenters
Con plague slow you down Ana?
On this day, a titan fell.
Ten bucks says it’s two squirrels fighting over a nut.
OH NO
So is failing at failure the one time two wrongs make a right?
Well, look, I dunno, but three left do.
I…think so? That’s a good question.
That’s genius!
Well, the meme in the hover text certainly pinpoints a date you could not have written this before. And when you uploaded it, you had no idea that gorilla channel would be a thing.
I’m betting it’s the greatest slapfight *ever*.
I misinterpreted the comic on my first read, and thought “isn’t rapelling down from the roof a bit of an extreme reaction to two students getting a little overly friendly in public?”.
Well, there is an alternative interpretation that matches to your expectations:
“Hey, no PDA!”
“Oh, goddammit, I’m sexually frustrated, let me ask if I can join in.”
I mean.. an act of violence does seem more likely but, hey, we won’t know for sure until tomorrow.
Lol, she sounds like a primary school teacher breaking up a kids fight
sorry for posting an unrelated comment again, but this is the only section I know that has many people who are not only reasonable, but are knowledgeable about this stuff.
what’s the most diplomatic and gentle way to say “that guy you’re seeing is a piece of shit”?
some context: this is an older guy who has told my friend she can’t do any of her hobbies: that anime is evil and that she shouldn’t dress in get favourite lolita fashion because those things are “childish” and she needs to “become a woman of God”. Oh and being a proper woman entails getting married and having children, even though 1) she’s been vocally not interested in children and 2) she has a disease that will kill her if she tried to carry a pregnancy to term. Her body is incapable of this, and she shouldn’t even try. She gets seizures just going through a normal workday and has to take a whole day off of she gets too tired.
this guy could not be setting off more red flags if he talked about cleansing the earth of sinners while polishing a rifle. what the fuck. I need to tell her he’s bad news
I don’t know how to properly approach that situation. The best thing I can think of is privately telling her “I don’t think the guy you’re seeing really has your best interests at heart and he’s sending up some red flags to me that a relationship with him wouldn’t be healthy.” And then calmly list for her the reasons you’ve listed above, while also framing it properly so that it doesn’t seem like an attack on the individual she’s seeing and instead a defense of her wants and needs. I wish I could be of more help. Also, holy shut you’re not wrong this guy your friend is seeing is a piece of shut and could very well be dangerous.
Oh God dammit phone auto-correct. Let me say “shit” without changing it to “shut”.
Ah “I don’t think he has your best interests” is a good approach, thank you. I’ll try to phrase it that way
Additionally to what Rukdug said, communicate to her how much she can rely on you if she needs help to get out of this relationship.
Look up resources on how to get out of abusive relationships and make them available to your friend.
I can say that, but sadly I’m not sure it will sound very honest because I haven’t seen much of this friend since she joined this church. I’m not keen on religion myself
Um… joined a church, and her BF is telling her anime is evil and she should get married and have kids?
This may not be about a bad/abusive boyfriend, so much as her joining what’s basically a cult. She has a whole social structure and belief system locking her in. And sounds like she’s bought into it.
Within that society, this boyfriend is probably pretty normal, and a lot of the red flags are probably rooted in the religion rather than in his personal shittiness.
I don’t have any good advice on how to get people out of cults. As far as I can take it is: Even some large/mainstream Christian churches are full-on cults, and you should consider whether that is the main problem here. I hope others can suggest what to do / how to argue if this is the case.
Hm… one possible thought, I don’t know if it will work…
Seek out something that she used to believe was good/positive, that she still _feels_ is good/positive, and that her church believes is negative. Being gay or trans, or maybe just liberal, is likely against this church’s beliefs.
Without talking about the church, try to remind her of the person she was when she believed that her friends John and Jeff had a beautiful marriage. If she says “But it’s a sin” focus on her feelings, not her beliefs. Maybe that can drive in a sliver of a wedge.
Also, if you can get her talking enough, maybe look for what unfilled need in her life this church/community/belief structure is filling, and see whether something else can fill it. This one is less likely to work because you probably won’t have enough access to her.
Be careful if you do this. Churches (especially the more cultish ones) train their members to be resistant to this. Like it’s Satan acting through you to tempt them with the ways of the world. I met a former cult member once, who said her grandmother had been advised never to try to talk her out of the cult, just to tell her that if she ever needed her for anything, to call and she’d be there ASAP.
Yeah, you’ll want to be careful about pushing too hard. There’s resources and organizations out there specifically aimed at helping talk someone into leaving a cult. I think a lot of it might be applicable to getting someone to leave an abusive relationship.
I can’t remember where I heard about them before, but here is a decent article that seems to be going over that kind of thing. Basically adds to what Huehuetotl said
http://theconversation.com/how-to-talk-someone-out-of-a-damaging-cult-68930
Honestly, with cults, from people I’ve known who were in them, you don’t see the flaws until you’re ready to see them. When you’re so fed up and done with their bullshit you’re ready to accept that they might be playing you.
The best thing you can do is be supportive to them. Don’t let them drag you into anything dangerous, but keep an eye on them, tell them you’re there to talk if they need to, and remember who they were before the cult.
honestly yeah, I’m getting some cult vibes here since this asshole is essentially cutting her off from all hobbies she likes and the people who shared those hobbies (including me) to “shape” her into something HE thinks is right
I’d suggest exploring with your friend to better understand how she views the relationship. Often people recognize when they’re in an unhealthy relationship, especially when they talk about it to someone who’s non-judgmental. If you can support her own dissatisfaction with the relationship, that can often be more effective than telling people what to do/your views on their life. (Of course it can vary based on your relationship with the person; if she often comes to you for advice, then perhaps she’d be more open to it in this case, for example.)
yeah from her comments, it seems she’s really struggling, so I’m hoping to push her to see this relationship is bad
I went through something kind of similar to what you’re describing a few years ago and I really mishandled it, so I took some classes on healthy relationships vs. abusive relationships and what you wrote looks like pretty text book abuser behavior. The situation you’re in is an incredibly difficult one, and there are no guaranteed right answers, but I don’t think that trying to tell her that she’s dating someone shitty is going to go well even if you are perfectly gentle and diplomatic. What might work better is to try to point out very specific behaviors of his that concern you to her, and focus on the behaviors rather than his character. This probably won’t be enough for her to realize that she should end the relationship, but it might help her see that sooner. Beyond that, you should try to be available and be patient. In general, abusers tend to isolate victims from their support groups (family, friends, etc). Making sure that she knows your still around even when she feels alone will be a huge help to her. And this could go on for a while, and it will be difficult to watch someone you care about being hurt over and over. But don’t give up, she may eventually need your help, and if you aren’t there when she needs you, you will regret it. I hope some of this helps you at least a little, and that everything works out for you and your friend.
I fear the isolation part might already have started since I haven’t seen hide nor hair of her since she joined that church
A good classic resource to start with is the article on the Darth Vader Boyfriend, which is about how to talk to a friend whose boyfriend is Darth Vader. The analogy is from this imagined conversation with Luke Skywalker:
“Luke, your dad is totally evil.”
“There’s good in him. I’ve felt it.”
“Luke, he blew up a planet just to make a point.”
“There’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
“Luke, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but he severed your hand. From your arm. He cut it off.”
“Dueling to the death is just how we relate. You wouldn’t understand it. Now that we both have prosthetic robot limbs, it’s only brought us closer together.”
“Luke, he lured your friends into a trap so that he could murder them in front of you. We had to be rescued by Ewoks. It was embarrassing.”
“Yeah, that was pretty bad, I admit! But there’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
The site is always a solid place to start for questions like this! https://captainawkward.com/2011/01/17/reader-question-4-my-friend-is-dating-someone-terrible-or-secrets-of-the-darth-vader-boyfriend/
this link is great, thank you!
Captain Awkward is wonderful 🙂 yay, so much good advice.
good luck, I guess?
Only problem with that analogy is that in canon, Luke was right. There was good in Vader. Luke reached him and brought him back from the Dark Side.
Ah but Luke pulled him out after much suffering by all involved and Vader died – Vader did not pull him in though.
Did Darth Vader change when he actually believed he had a chance of living, or did he decide since he would die soon anyways he wanted to die thinking of himself as a good guy.
He was still in good health (or “good” health, considering he needed cybernetics to stay alive – alright, so his vital cybernetics were still in good shape) when he killed the Emperor, for what it’s worth; sure Vader was missing a cybernetic hand at that moment, but by that point it wasn’t even his original cybernetic hand – or the replacement for his original, or even the replacement for the first replacement if I’m not mistaken.
Then the Emperor’s lightning fried Vader’s vital cybernetics as he threw the Emperor to his death.
Not committing an evil act is not a good act though. Like Vader never actually DID anything to merit redemption or show there was good in him he just didn’t brutally murder his own son.
I guess he killed the emperor? That probably went a long way towards bringing the empire down. Doing so also saved Luke’s life. But yeah, he doesn’t have much chance to DO anything with redemption because he died almost right away.
I like Leia’s answer in the old EU. “Maybe Vader had died heroically but ten minutes of contrition didn’t make up for years of atrocities. I’m not your teacher or your confessor, so take your weak Force ghost apologies and please find someone who cares.”
would a little golden book lie
There are many ways to analyze it and argue that Vader never meaningfully redeemed himself. It is however a common interpretation and definitely seems to be the one intended in the film itself – particularly with Anakin appearing as a Force Ghost.
That makes it tricky to use as an analogy.
The problem with that analogy is that it’s wrong.
Vader didn’t blow up Alderaan, Tarkin did.
Vader didn’t kidnap Han and Leia to murder them, he kidnapped them to draw Luke to him. Leia and Han were going to be left on Bespin under Lando’s supervision. (But then Han was given to Boba Fett, not dead.)
Vader *did* cut off Luke’s hand, but that’s hardly a thing in a galaxy where robotic prosthetics seem to be commonplace (and he also didn’t just kill him like he so easily could have) – In fact, the only reason he wanted Luke to be turned was that the Emperor said he was to be killed…
Details people… without details you end up with.. well… The Last Jedi! 🙂
Very difficult. All red flags up, but still, telling a friends there current so is an asshole and should be avoided is not a god strategy.
A friends was being had by her last lover, emotionally and financially, and the best results of talking with her were when I held back the shock and fear in listening and ask questions.
The description in the captain awkward article above rang a lot of bells and I would really like to translate her part of the description (as she is still confused about how she got into such a bad situation a year after she ended that relationship). Also, there was a time when I ask her not to tell me details (because I didn’t trust myself to not end up shouting at her that she should leave he lover asap and I knew that wouldn’t help).
Have hope, courage and step lightly.
I think full-on poisoning would be justified in such a case, but that’s probably not helpful cuz you don’t sound psychotic, and poisoning is generally frowned upon. But good gravy, fuck that guy! With a big, unwashed rubber dick.
> what’s the most diplomatic and gentle way to say “that guy you’re seeing is a piece of shit”?
The secret is that you don’t want to say that, not even politely, not even indirectly. If you attack the ‘love of her life’, she is going to defend him. If you regularly attack the guy, then suddenly you’re ‘biased’ in all future advice-giving.
Focus on your friend. Focus on keeping her supported so she isn’t leaning entirely on this guy. Be a sounding board, be a space where she can express herself fully without ridicule or judgment or override. And probably toughest of all…. Let her work through it, however long it takes, because the only one who can make that decision for her is her.
If there’s things she doesn’t know about, things he does behind her back, by all means tell her, but leave the value judgment whether something is good or bad to her. It’s the only way it’ll stick.
Hm, this is probably the hardest part because I want to grab her by the shoulders and yell “run away woman, run away!” but in reality that’s counter productive
I know it’s hard, but she has to be the hero of her own story, and part of that means she controls when it happens. One thing that I think is worth reiterating is the importance of being non-judgmental. I’ve spoken with people who have finally reached the place of recognizing how awful the person they’re with is and wanting to leave, but feeling that everyone around them either supports their abuser or thinks they’re stupid for being with them in the first place. That feeling of shame can be really strong, and you don’t want to feed into it.
Ouch. That sucks. Being in that supportive role is HARD.
Doctor Nerdlove takes up similar subjects sometimes.
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/ask-dr-nerdlove-supporting-roles/
I think one general thing you can do is to prepare spaces where your friend can spend time where the boyfriend does NOT have control. Either big ones, like a con or a regular anime night, or small ones like a coffee or lunch, or just calling and being available on the phone.
Be prepared for pushback from his side, though. Either directly (“leave my girl alone”) or indirectly (“my boyfriend says I shouldn’t spend time with you…”).
Here is another resource, from everyday feminism
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/01/how-to-help-a-loved-one-experiencing-domestic-violence/
these are great links, thank you!
I mean no disrespect… but, have you asked this before?
I have the most AMAZING sensation of deja-vu here…
So much so that I’m not convinced it is Deja Vu, but an actual memory…?
I have asked a similar question before about a friend in an abusive situation, but that was another friend and the abuser was her father, not her boyfriend.
But you’re right: this is the second time I’m having major concerns about a religious man abusing a friend of mine
Awh… that… that just sucks so hard…
🙁
I would say something like ‘Hey, I’m a little worried about your relationship. I don’t think he has your best interests at heart because it feels to me like he isn’t respecting your individuality and your personal choices. I would like to hear your opinion though.’
If she asks for why you think so, bring up individual moments where he has said and done things disrespectful to her; e.g. pushing for children when she both does not want them and because her condition means she would die if she tried, the way he has demonised her hobbies as ‘childish’ though these things are harmless and have no impact on his life.
If she brings up dissatisfaction herself, listen to her and validate her feelings, that she is allowed to feel this way, don’t let her undermine her own feelings as ‘silly’ or ‘petty’ when they are a reasonable reaction.
If she becomes defensive or says it isn’t your place to get involved, don’t push, back off and say ‘If you are happy with your relationship that’s all that matters, but I wanted to share my concerns. I will back off but I will still be here to listen if you need me.’
Most importantly: Never attack his character directly. You want to win her over so she sees you aren’t a threat or just attacking him due to personal distaste with his personality but that you are a friend she can rely on to listen to her and yes, this might mean having to back off, be patient, and arrange small meet-ups of just the two of you. It might mean strategising so that you remain in contact, or even that you have to visit the church she goes to yourself just so you can say hi to her and check how she is doing if contact drops even further.
The hardest thing you will have to do though is wait. She has to work through this herself and if she doesn’t want to listen to you or your opinion, you can’t force her to hear it. You can’t force her to agree with you. If he is as bad as you say, some of these things probably don’t sit right with her either, but you will still have to wait until she decides herself that he isn’t right for her because you have to respect her personal choices.
thanks for this advice! the hardest part will be not to attack him directly even though I think everything he says and thinks about her are repugnant
I don’t think I’d approach it as a relationship issue because I think it’s more serious than that and I doubt you will have much luck convincing her to dump him just because you express personal distaste. Perhaps saying something like hey I’ve been worried about you, you don’t seem to be doing the things you love anymore and you seem stressed – something turning her into her own self-reflection – would be helpful.
So many Dorothys! Dorothies?
Clonorothies.
Friends-of.
–Dave, plus their tribble of terriers
oooh, the “you don’t seem to be doing the things you love anymore and you seem stressed” is a really good line, thank you!
All of it sounds terrible but wanting her to risk her life cause it might theoretically give her something she doesn’t want is the worst. We’ve already covered the world and there are enough women who are both able to and desire to have children that we don’t need to pressure anyone who is not both to try for children yet alone someone who neither wants children nor is able to have children.
I think the internet told me.
What you need to do is find out how to keep in touch while not ruining yourself.
Actually if you can find a way to say I will do what I can if this doesn’t work out without telling her you don’t think it will work out or claiming you think it will work out. Which I don’t know how to do and this will be more effective if you find some way to keep the line open preferably something that is not itself a sin in her books.
Unfortunately the methods that are most effective in helping people in those situations tend to go against a lot of peoples instincts.
Actually a part of me wants to know whether those instincts are counterproductive or whether usually someone will tell the emperor when he is naked and often that is all it takes, but that one con man managed to really convince that those few emperors that not seeing the cloth meant you were terrible, and got them to banish or at least dismiss everyone who didn’t pretend to see the cloth.
My point is it let someone else provide her with the warnings, chances are there will be someone since a child can do it, give her someone who will not ridicule her for her mistake.
Any different from caning a tree? *Imagines a tree wrapped up in wicker* Possibly.
It’s hard to stop being a hero.
Dogooders gotta do good.
We don’t need another hero.
Sorry, I had to.
But they can be heroes, right?
Just for one day?
I’m no hero
No place in your story
I’m the man who’s left behind
I must been blind
Being bad at being a jackass might indicate that you’re actually an okay person, Amber.
“But this is the last time! Damn me, but it really is the last time!”
Amber you suck at sucking.
Amber reads superhero comics, right? She should know by now that superheroes can’t resist helping people.
….. so apparently Amber is doing Amazi-Girl stuff herself rather than becoming Amazi-Girl to do it?
This is a good thing? I don’t know enough to say if this is a good thing, but I think it’s a good thing?
On the one hand it will definitely help Amber realize that she isn’t “the evil one”. On the other hand we don’t know how the AmaziGirl alter will respond.
Yup. I am… very interested in seeing how this turns out.
Batman and Robin where both characters share the same body?
It was probably easier back when Amazi-Girl just operated at night and wasn’t famous.
If she still did that, she could easily be a Phantom Menace.
Nobody wants to be that… 🙁
Mind you…
Amber is trying to convince herself that she is worthless, so…
Maybe shout at an adorable puppy.
WHO’S A GOOD BOY?? WHO IS IT?? ANSWER ME!!
You made me spit up my soda.
I’m trying to picture Batman doing this. Just sitting around in broad daylight yelling at people to break it up.
1960s Adam West Batman maybe.
“Pardon me, citizens. You might want to consider that the sanctity of love is best preserved by privacy. Perhaps you might find an indoor setting more … conducive?”
“Gosh, thanks, Caped Crusader! You’re so right!”
Hmmm. What I HOPE this signifies is the merging of the alters. But I’ll be cautious with my optimism.
Probably shouldn’t mention “It’s Walky” is doing the crossover with “Faans” that first alerted me to the existence of Willis as a creator.
Let’s face it, the way your day is going the professor would be using the cane to smuggle money he was stealing from campus charity to the orphans with cancer fund. Or something.
Any bets on what she is trying to break up? I can think of two very different options: a physical altercation, or extensive PDA.
Roz and Joe are both in class, so I’m leaning toward the former.
Ooo, unless Daisy found a gal pal.
That would be hilarious. Daisy finally has a chance to get some and she’s foiled by the campus vigilante.
Cue JJJ-esque rant about being a MENACE!
Probably a fight. If it’s both a physical altercation and extensive PDA at once then something went wrong somewhere.
Also it’s too early for Billie and Ruth’s date.
The phrase ‘minor physical confrontation’ comes to mind as do Tony and Beef.
Two professors are cane-fighting.
Actually, they’re Warsies and they’re replicating a lightsabre duel.
A mugging she thinks is a PDA. She can’t win …
Actually, that would definitely be a reason for someone to sit Amber down and give her a stern talking-to. Failure to be able to differentiate assault from PDA is pretty much a red flag, IMO.
Comedy, Benny. It’s called comedy.
Spidey was right — “With great power comes great responsibility”. Don’t even try to fight it, girl.
That was Uncle Ben, and the quote is “With great power must come great responsibility.”
It’s a small change, but it changes the meaning almost entirely.
OK, that tickled me, and i had to look it up.
It turns out that:
*) You are right, and the phrase is “must come” (actually “with great power there must also come — great responsibility!”)
*) You are wrong. In the original comic, it was not Uncle Ben, it was the narrator..
It is just dogs fornicating.
I mean … leave them be.
Here’s a newsflash, Amber: You suck at being a villain. Basically, you have too strong a sense of justice and of right and too strong a need to ensure the crap that blights your life isn’t repeated for anyone else.
but, but, she sucks and is terrible at everything, everyone says so! especially her golden alter and the imaginary image of her father! are you saying the voices in her head are wrong?
Blaine: “You are even a failure at being EVIL. Wow, you suck.”
I”ma prove I’m evil
I’ma do a fart in a elevator
And if that don’t convince ever’one
Might do some moiders, later”
You’re having an argument with yourself! And losing!
TBH, I’ve never really understood how one can have an argument with oneself and not lose, one way or another.
You’re a terrible super villain Amber.
She’s not trying to be super, she’s not trying to be a villain, she’s trying to discredit her alter ego. Unfortunately, alters are pretend, it’s you (her) all the way down. As she goes to stop whatever is going on, I see her running by a professor using a walker and not even noticing.
“Alters are pretend” seems like it’s discrediting people with DID, though I don’t know enough about the subject to say for sure.
yup. I’m guessing that was someone who doesn’t read the comment section regularly. I’d forgotten for a moment that most people don’t know *anything* about dissociation.
Are you thinking that Amber has DID or are you taking my words out of context to call my phrasing “discrediting”?
I apologize to anyone who was offended by my phrasing. I don’t want to trigger anyone by explaining in great detail why I believe what I do. My adopted daughter has DID. I’ve been a participant and speaker at Healing Together Conference. I encourage you to attend if you can. My partner and I will not be attending this year. http://www.aninfinitemind.com/healing-together.html
To clarify a little further, my original comment was not made (in my perceptions) in the context of DID. I’m sorry if anyone took it that way.
There’s definitely a common perception here that Amber has DID. I don’t think, even without that, words were really taken out of context, but I’m glad that’s not what you meant.
Huh. I did not think about Amber having DID. I will ponder that.
Now that I think about it, BPD might still be a plausible diagnosis too – iirc it can include memory loss – but I feel like DID is more likely (can’t remember why though) and it’s gotten bad enough OSDD seems unlikely.
Sorry if I sounded condescending there.
And yes, amber has DID. Her alters are not just pretend.
Cue Bonnie Tyler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY
Here’s a reminder for you, Amber: Amazi-girl or no Amazi-girl, YOU are a superhero
I object. Mostly because it’s a fine character weakness.
Amazi-Girl has always been spoken about in the third person by Amber. Amazi-Girl is a superhero, even if she is the concoction of a broken person. And Amber may not have total control over that anymore given intensely she’s fought to be another person under the mask. The urge to act like a superhero while Amazi-Girl may be stronger than a lot of people’s urge to brush their teeth after doing so twice a day for how many years or to drive on the wrong side of the road overseas.
Amber’s not in that particular driver’s seat anymore.
Except Amber and Amazi-Girl both very wrongly believe that Amber is trash, and that Amazi-Girl is the only good part of her.
Even if they aren’t separate personalities (and SOME type of dissociative disorder would seem the only expansion for her waking up this morning and learning Amazi-Girl had gone out on patrol during the night from social media because she couldn’t remember it) this of less “fine character weakness”, and more “deeply painful belief that is very harmful to her”
Showing – even accidentally – that she can do good as Amber is something she needed. Amazi-Girl isn’t gone, and she’s got a lot to struggle and work through yet, but hopefully this moment will help her clear out enough space to be happy for a bit before the next plunge into misery. Maybe even make the next dive easier to get through. At the very least, it might lead to Amber and Amazi-Girl starting to deconstruct the narrative that Amazi-Girl is good and Amber is bad and AG needs to protect everyone else from her.
Yes, exactly!
Amber is not normally in the driver’s seat when Amazi-Girl is doing her thing. This time she very clearly is. All the indicators are there, the internal monologue is clear, she’s got cheekblushes and AG isn’t tagged.
This is Amber in the costume.
And yeah, the urge to act like a superhero is still there. Because that urge was originally Amber’s. Because Amber is a good person, despite her opinion.
(And she’s off Garbage Roof, so I can say that.)
e x a c t l y
Prediction time – Amber’s going to black out and Amazi-Girl will take control mid-confrontation. Since they’re no longer sharing memories, AG will suddenly find herself in the middle of a fight, and things will escalate…
One time I dressed as The Joker for halloween, and thought it would be fun to try and act somewhat in-character (more prankster than actual Joker, because I can’t stand the thought of actually hurting anyone). It lasted all of two *seconds*, and then manic-pixie-oblivious-girl was back in charge as usual. 😛
So…. you ended up as Harley Quinn?
Hey, in the last panel, see how Amazi-Girl’s legs thrust against the rooftop as her arms strain against the rope and her hips are rotated relative to her shoulders. That’s some fine figure drawing there. Just sayin’.
I saw it, but I didn’t see it. Thank you.
It also looks like she’s putting far more effort and caution into it than when Amazi-Girl does similar things. Which is a nice subtle bit of characterization in that fine figure drawing.
Partly of course because we wouldn’t see this shot of AG, just her dropping out of nowhere to break up the fight.