…Do Lucy and Billie have easily-confused voices? I mean, this is as confusing as when Billie managed to scream “RUTH LESSICK IS A WHORE” without Ruth knowing exactly who it was. I’ve been puzzled about that since that strip’s run.
As someone who’s HoH, if I can’t tell who said something I certainly wouldn’t’ve been able to tell what they said. One kind of comes before the other, ya know? Especially how I rely on lipreading when someone doesn’t know ASL.
Unless their voices really are that similar. But then her hearing wouldn’t come into it, would it? But if not then… Now I’m confusing myself.
Or maybe she doesn’t see the toothbrush and thinks Billie is signing something? Wrong? Smoking pipe? Drinking alcohol? Oops? Ah, whatever, I’m over-complicating it. I get the joke and I’m ruining it. 😛
I hope this comic doesn’t mess up on ASL. It’s easy to, as many don’t realize it’s not at all like English, and unlike a regular typo you can’t fix it as easily.
Uh, I mean… no pressure?
I’ve noticed a couple odd choices Willis made, but nothing I’d consider “wrong”. If he wants, he could maybe ask someone for advice on specific phrases in the comments? Then again, that might be slight spoilers. But with the buffer, we’d all forget by then, wouldn’t we?
I mean seeing as she’s managed to confuse the voices of two people of whom one very clearly has a toothbrush in their mouth and is thus incapable of clear speech I’d have to question just how good her hearing is.
It’s playing off the fact that everyone in this dorm automatically treats Billie as a hero (and probably treats Lucy as inconsequential), so when someone says something nice, it gets attributed to Billie regardless.
If he’s in a STEM field, maybe he’s on the programming side, or maybe a genius technical writer like Caroline Rose. (I wouldn’t trust an engineer to write end-user documentation; it will be technically correct, but incomprehensible to the average user.)
If he’s the bane of all technology, he’s probably strong in a creative design field. (Assuming Forest Quad is equal-but-opposite of Read Hall.)
Oookay i shoulda been specific, but that’s really on me I see where the confusion was there. I got that Zaph was a trans dude I just don’t get whats goin on in that last interacton with Lucy, Rose and Billie
In the second to last panel Lucy said something nice while rose was turned away. She turned around to see Lucy and Billie there, and despite Billy having her mouth full with a toothbrush, assumed that Billie was the one making the comment.
Lucy’s frown in the last panel, combined with the growing disillusionment from the previous strip is likely making her less than happy with Billie. Bill is oblivious, and likely uncaring about the whole thing.
Lucy apparently is the Rodney Dangerfield of her floor: she gets no respect. And this seems to have been true even before Billie descended from the heavens to walk among her floor-mates. Now, her best hope at minimal acknowledgment is to point out to her floor-mates, at every opportunity, that she alone is the roommate of the radiant, numinous, and benevolent Head Cheerleader of the Golden Dragons.
He was Rose’s boyfriend in the Walkyverse, being the happy-opposite of Faz (Rose being the opposite of Amber). Later they found out that they were siblings, around the same time that Amber found out Faz was her half-brother.
Which means, going off Willis’ previous comment, we’ve no idea what their genealogical status is this time around.
Though, frankly, I’m still trying to figure out where Faz came from in DoA, given that he appears to not be related to either Blaine or Stacy/Amber. Adding more mysterious not-siblings to DoA just leaves us with even more questions. 😛
The moment someone thought “Man, it would be terrible if there was a Faz in the Dumbiverse”, he appeared in Blaine’s spare room, full-formed and every bit as terrible as we expected.
I believe Willis hinted on his Twitter account that Blaine’s mafia-backstory may be kept (responding to a TVTropes note that said essentially, “Blaine’s mafia past from Shortpacked! seems to be excised” by saying something along the lines of, <b"who says it's excised?"), so…shrug?
I wouldn’t say ‘every other family situation has been maintained’ – Joyce has a (slightly) smaller family, Sal and Beef weren’t switched at birth, Carla has a completely different set of parents (being contemporary to her parents’ equivalents), Faz’s relationship to the O’Malleys is known and way less complicated…
Does that make The Village People our world’s Justice League? Have they been saving the world from supervillains, aliens, and sentient robots in epic battles that we’ve rationalized as disco concerts with elaborate pyrotechnics?
Possible, but maybe they were more on equal turns, and now Billie’s there, she’s been put into the high seat, without contributing anything to it, just because of her previous high school status (well, and the fact that they are impressed with her (version of her) relationship with Ruth.
It’s like a group of friends, and suddenly, one friend brings this one cool person in, and instead of reasoning things out the usual way (e.g. where to eat lunch) with everyone having a say in it, they just let the new person decide, simply because they seem cool. Which isn’t so bad if it only happens once, but I get the feeling this will develop not into equal friendships (though Billie might of course try to set things straight)
I don’t know. Is there really any evidence here that anyone ever really liked Lucy? I mean, it would kind of explain her over – cheerfulness and desire to please and make friends. Apparently, everyone in this dorm treats her like crap.
I keep wondering. For the most part, people in the DOA Universe have very similar personalities to their Walkyverse personalities. Lucy doesn’t. In Shortpacked, she was definitely nice and friendly, but she was cynical, critical, and called crap when she saw it, specifically when people were being unfair or sexist. I loved Lucy in SP. This Lucy isn’t even a caricature of the old one; she’s completely different in almost every way possible.
I don’t think she’s that different, but it’s been a bit since I read SP I think though, up to this storyline, she’s only been a cameo in Malaya’s scenes and hasn’t had the spotlight on herself, so it could definitely come across as her being radically different.. because she’s had such limited appearances. And that being said, a lot of the scenarios Lucy faced in SP haven’t been shown, like guys gatekeeping nerdom or Malaya being.. Malaya. This is the first conflict she’s been in, so maybe she’ll start being more like her SP self, who knows.
I think that you’re overlooking the fact that Lucy is at least a few years younger here than she was in Shortpacked.
As a college freshman, it makes sense that she hasn’t yet developed the kind of cynicism or confidence as her older counterpart in Shortpacked. What we’re seeing here seems like it could easily push Lucy to be more assertive, and maybe more cynical as well
Well, yay for Zaph.
This also makes me wonder, do these dorms have single person unisex bathrooms? My dorm did, and it was interesting because as a friend of mine observed, “No one ever uses it.”
I mean, I used it pretty much exclusively because of gender things. But she’s right that it was almost always free. And that’s interesting because even putting gender aside…who doesn’t want a bathroom with a bit more privacy?
My dorm had communal bathrooms in the hallway, one men’s and one women’s. About a month into the school year, I started to see women in the men’s room.
My dorm had one, and I had the exact opposite thing happen. EVERYONE used it bc it was closer to their rooms and/or bigger and/or more private. YMMV, I guess.
Interesting. By my third year in the dorm, I purposely picked a room right by the unisex bathroom because it was convenient, and yet when my 20 year old RA decided to puke and pass out drunk somewhere, she went for the communal bathroom instead. People are fascinating.
My dorm hall has a men’s room, a women’s room, and two small gender-neutral rooms. The latetr are usually kept free, but mainly because we want to reserve them for the genderqueer dormers who don’t like using the gendered rooms.
I rarely use it because there are only a few and I’m always worried that if I use it, what if someone who’s nonbinary needs to use it while I’m in there?
I feel you. I used to have anxiety about using it for a similar reason/what if someone saw me…go into a bathroom…and immediately knew…and was also a bigot, I guess was the thinking? Eventually, though, the anxiety of using a gendered bathroom outweighed the other anxiety, and I stopped staring at the line between the two figures on the unisex sign and thinking “same” and just started using the bathroom.
You should use whatever bathroom you feel most comfortable using. Whatever one that is, you’re valid. *finger guns*
I have this problem with handicap parking. I’m still fairly mobile/can walk and only use my placard when I’m having a bad pain day, and when there’s only one or 2 free handicap spots I always agonize over whether or not I should REALLY park there because “What if someone worse off than me needs it more???”
Also further complicated by the fact that handicap “authenticity” policing is a thing people with invisible illnesses deal with regularly…I’m always worried someone is going to give me a hard time because I don’t “look” handicapped other than the occasional small limp. 😐
It’s so nice of you to think like that, but by the sound of it, you are already doing everything in your possibility to not hinder someone who might be, as you put it, “worse off”.
And other people who don’t know you have absolutely no right to judge you for parking in a spot you are allowed to park in, just because you don’t “look” handicapped (not to say other people who know you have the right to judge you – nobody has). There might be stupid people, but those are sadly everywhere, so please don’t let anyone discourage you for using those parking spots when you need them.
As long as everything is behind stalls (that is, no urinals in the “front” area), nobody’s going to be able to see genitals, so I’m not totally sure why we have segregated bathrooms to begin with. The rec center I attend has an undifferentiated bathroom / shower / changing area. Toilets are behind stalls, showers are behind curtains, use towels as appropriate. And nobody minds.
It is odd, as I’m in the united states and generally people do seem more uncomfortable here even to accidentally see other people’s private areas during changing (hiding one’s own parts is easy; some people just don’t bother and change right on the benches in front of the lockers). But for whatever reason, the vibe in this gym is very chill and non-threatening / non-sexual about nudity.
As a teen, I had much difficulty changing in front of other people of the same sex by the lockers in the gym, or at a swimming pool, or go into the open (one-sex) shower. I still don’t like it much, mostly because I had body issues (and still have them, sometimes). I can understand some possibly insecure 18-19 year olds feeling uncomfortable with knowing that someone in the stall next door, possibly of another sex, was naked too. And I’m from Europe.
I would’ve, but I thankfully never lived in a dorm…
Might also just be growing up with how to deal with nakedness and personal preferences. My family wasn’t prude in that regard, so I mostly turned out like that because of my own issues.
Just as a possible explanation why some still might have difficulty with shared bathrooms with singular stalls.
(Not even including people that might feel uncomfortable with other naked people for other reasons.)
Yeah I wouldn’t see the need for gendered bathrooms if the fucking doors were all floor to ceiling and remaining clothed until you’re in a stall or shower was mandatory (and showers had doors room at her than curtains!), but as it stands, I super absolutely wouldn’t be comfortable sharing a bathroom or locker room with cis dudes as a group. I don’t need to make it any easier for creepy motherfuckers to be creepy at me, thx
Really, fuck the nonexistent-ass “privacy” we get in communal bathrooms and showers around here. It’s responsible for so much shit.
I actually read somewhere that a single, large, unisex bathroom with the same number of stalls as a pair of gendered bathrooms would be a significant time improvement. Can’t remember where I saw it.
Yeah… Bathrooms…
It’s not unreasonable for someone to have to wait a couple of minutes for the bathroom, but that doesn’t stop anxiety from expecting some jerk will act like it’s unreasonable.
On the gender segregation thing… In elementary school, girls would often climb over or under stall walls to mess with people. I had a lot of trouble peeing in those bathrooms. So, it can be bad even with one gender… But if everyone was using the same washroom, then we’d find out how many creepy guys would take advantage of it, and I kinda don’t want to find out? But I don’t like gendered washrooms either. Why can’t people just not suck? 😛
I used unisex bathrooms where I could for a couple reasons: 1, it tended to be cleaner than the womens’ bathroom (everyone seems to be on their best behavior with regard to hygiene when they know ppl of other genders might see what slobs they are). 2, I just felt better there, for reasons I couldn’t articulate cuz I didn’t know I was trans yet.
Nowadays I really resent that public spaces have few unisex bathrooms. Like I get why people would want their gendered spaces (esp why women want women-specific spaces) because non-gendered spaces tend to be full of gender-normative asshattery and sometimes you just need a fucking break, right?
But yeah, for me – going in the women’s room just makes me entirely too aware of the parts of my body that don’t belong, and I can’t safely try the dudes’ room yet, so I’m fucked. Usually I end up holding it till I get home/to the hotel/whatever, unless I’m desperate, and then especially if I’m in guymode I get a shitload of awkward stares and “Umm… the guys’ room is over there,” and then when I say, “I know” their eyes go wide and they say, “OH. I’m so sorry! I thought-” and it’s awful, cuz like yay I was passing and fuck my voice ruins it, every fucking time and if that were to happen in the guys’ room I’d probably get my ass kicked given the local view of trans people (last summer a trans woman was nearly killed – she was stabbed outside a bar. And I’m always hearing places where folks are threatening horrible things to any trans people they ever encounter and whatever… I know trans women who have a “Fuck it come at me bro” attitude and I admire that, but I am and always have been too much of a survivor at heart to take that posture. Well, that and growing up in a physically abusive household teaches you not to dare a physical fight unless you’re confident you can win it or are completely okay with having the shit kicked out of you if you lose. I am not a brave person, and I’m ok with that – I have never pretended to be otherwise. I’m a fucking coward, and I admit it. I don’t want to get put in hospital or killed for going to the bathroom, so I play it safe even if it’s awful to do so, cuz I’d rather be alive to feel awful, if that makes sense).
Hi could you elaborate more on the “gender-normative asshattery” in non-gendered spaces? Specifically what kind of non-gendered spaces (public places like grocery stores??) do you mean, and also a few examples of asshattery (really not sure what that means; is it the way men often treat women?), if you would be so kind. Because to me it seems like cisnormative standards are everywhere, whether the space is gendered or not.
Oh, yeah, I agree. I feel more comfortable when I’m around women myself. (Not sure about queer men – I don’t have enough experience being around them to say.) I don’t know how cis, non-queer women feel about being around me though. I wonder if they feel weird, since I’m quite androgynous (maybe masculine of center) in behaviour and appearance. But I’m really quiet and reserved, so I think people are more creeped out by that. I’m also very short and skinny, so I’m not much of a physical threat, but I probably give off the vibe of ‘creepy little weirdo who never talks’. And sometimes I’m walking behind a person or group of people, and probably seem like a small, strange stalker because I’m so quiet and walking alone behind them. People have looked behind at me as it happened, and I felt like that. Especially when they’re all cis women.
ischemgeek, you are NOT a coward for prioritizing your physical safety!
I’m a cis queer lady and disabled to boot. And you know what? Self-care like seeking out safe spaces and hanging out with supportive people is vital. It helps store up your courage so you can use it when it really counts. Courage is a muscle, I think, and it absolutely needs exercise– small acts of bravery can lead to bigger ones. Yet, at the same time, nobody can run a marathon if they’ve already spent all day running on a treadmill, right? So courage can be exhausted. I think sometimes people think they have less courage than others because they don’t realize how often they have to use theirs when others don’t have to.
I don’t know you irl, so I guess I can’t make a big sweeping statement about your bravery. But, the actions you talk about in your comment are not acts of cowardice. I suspect you are much braver than you realize. The transwomen in your life whose attitude you admire, I’ll bet they admire you too. There are many ways to be brave.
Maybe I’m wrong to conflate the cis-trans spectrum and the gay-straight spectrum, but it seems like an odd thought that the cis-est guy would be bisexual. Given that Faz was totally clueless about his bisexuality, I’m choosing to believe that though Zaph may have normal fears regarding his gender, he is the most secure in his sexuality of any bi person on the planet.
IME, trans folks are more likely to accept non-het sexuality in themselves, so we appear to have higher rates of not-being-straight (with the exception of some of the old schooler Harry Benjamin types who overcompensate to prove how trans they are and need to be seen as straighter than straights), but being trans doesn’t have much to do with sexuality. Most of the trans folks I’ve met are straight… I’m bi, I know a few pan types, and a couple aces/aros, as well.
But cis folks can be straight.
I’m wondering if Zaph is actually Straighty McStraighterson, or maybe he’s just suuuper ace with very little sex drive at all. Him being incredibly respectful and careful of boundaries would make sense, too – especially since he’s a relatively small-built trans dude (meaning he’s probably experienced his fair share of sexual harassment before he hatched and knows first-hand how much boundary encroachments suck).
Baaaah I am sorry I somehow forgot to retype my entire third paragraph. All I can blame is fucked up sleep schedule.
What I meant to say is: But cis folks can be straight, bi, or gay or any other orientation. It doesn’t tie to your gender. They’re more likely to stay closeted about it, I think, than trans folk, though – which might contribute to the “trans folk are more likely to be queer in other ways” perception that exists out there – a lot of cis folks I know, especially with non-binary sexual orientations, recloset as they age if they find a stable het relationship, and I don’t really blame them. Reouting yourself to every asshole who assumes because your relationship looks straight, you are straight, gets tiring after a while, and the LGBT community would in general prefer to pretend B doesn’t exist except as questioning on the way to an L or G orientation or as straight poseurs, IME as a bi person. So you can stay closeted and get fake acceptance, or out yourself constantly and get shit on from all sides. Doesn’t really surprise me that a lot of cis bi, pan, ace/aro folks recloset as they age.
There have been studies done by trans activism organizations that say that roughly half of us ID as bi, pan, or queer, with the rest split mostly equally between gay and straight, with a chunk of “other” that includes ace folks.
Now, I would personally imagine that that is about correct for the cisgender population and that we’re just the leading edge of what society as a whole is correcting itself towards, but that’s not currently the understanding.
I am unsure if you’re being sarcastic above but just in case you’re not, here’s the various things that code him trans:
* He is seen living in the girls dorm, but referred to with he pronouns.
* He is wearing a half-shirt binder (the cut and color looks like Willis used GC2B brand half-shirt binders as a reference, actually).
* He is being offered support to use the dude’s bathrooms.
* He is explicitly stated as only having used them for 4 days so far (today beign day 5).
* He is wearing a pair of men’s boxers as his PJ pants instead of the more feminine-coded pajamas everyone else on the floor is wearing.
* He has the Unofficial Trans Dude Egg With Noncurly Hair Haircut (literally every trans dude I’ve met who doesn’t have curly hair, me included, has had that exact haircut at least once, because you can gel it back and poof it up at the top for a more masculine look or you can come it down in front for a more feminine look – it’s a very safe haircut for a trans egg to play with gender presentation with, and unlike an undercut or fauxhawk, it’d doesn’t necessarily explicitly code you as queer cuz cishet women often have very similar haircuts if they’re trying for the Audrey Hepburn look, so it’s closet-friendly as well. Hell, I’m currently sporting it as I figure out how to make transing work at work).
… Sooo, yes, I would say that the implication here is that he is trans. I think the only way to code him more trans within the space of a single strip would be to have him dressed in the colors of the trans flag or something.
Doesn’t necessarily mean you are trans (as I mentioned a lot of cis women have it) but OTOH weirdly relating to and being “omg same” or like “hey I do that too but totes not trans u guys lol” to trans narratives I was drawn to for an inexplicable reason was how I first started to question.
It is your own journey to travel and we are here for you if you need a sympathetic ear or sounding board.
She is being ignored and overshadowed by Billie’s existence. Lucy’s true fear emerges: replacement by the cheerleader. This may be something that has happened before with friends in high school. And honestly, I would be wary of cheerleaders too if that happened to me.
Lucy is not a bongo at all, she is a nice person with nerd interests, clearly she does not belong! Begone nice person!
Though more seriously the alpha-beta-omega hierarchy is complete bull to begin with anyway. If this was not a joke, I would have to fight you because bad science is my greatest archnemesis.
Yes. Anyone who calls themselves an alpha male, or refers to someone else as a beta or omega… deserves to be struck by lightning. It is the only way.
Bongo drums totally have a hierarchy. Small ones are at the top of the hierarchy because that makes for easier stacking for storage and cheerleading routines.
I feel bad for Lucy, but this is partially her own intensity coming back to bite her in the ass. She built up her new roommate so that she could be cool and get attention by association, and now Billie’s overshadowing Lucy through no fault of her own.
Lucy didn’t build up Billie, she was the last one to meet her and the only thing that could be seen as actually playing her up to others was maybe her selfie with her??? Everyone else built up Billie in their own damn minds based off the fact she is a cheerleader, whereas that keeps causing Lucy to withdraw and deflate instinctively for a few moments.
Zaph was (iirc) one of the McAwesome’s staff in Shortpacked; here, he’s a student who’s apparently newly out as trans and adjusting. Rose has been helping him by waiting outside while he showers to make sure no one messes with him. Lucy is giving her a pep talk, which Rose attributes to Billie, making Lucy feel overlooked.
They look a few different ways. I have one like that and one that I guess looks more like a full muscle shirt, but the fabric below the part that’s actually doing the binding tends to bunch up on me, so I prefer ones styled like his. There are other styles as well.
woah just what is up with everyone, it happened once and I was like ok that makes…..some kinda sense but twice is a pattern! Lucy doesn’t deserve this!
Wait – I never knew Luigi is actually more popular than Mario?? Because I like Luigi a lot, and Mario is just boring. I feel justified in my preference.
Is “transmasc” the (a?) proper term? Anyway, Zaph appears to be the first character in this who shares his brand of queerness with a person I know in real life. Cool.
“Trans man” (specifically as separate, un-hyphenated words) is what I understood was commonly preferred, over “transmale/masculine”, as being trans and a man are two distinct attributes.
Trans masc and trans man can also be two separate things, so Zaph could be one or the other or both or neither, I suppose. (I mean, from this strip I’m reading that he’s a trans guy, but there’s a lot of identities out there, you know?)
Trans man/woman refers specifically to men and women, whereas transmasculine and transfeminine (which are used as adjectives, fyi) are used for the more general sense of “AFAB person who is somewhere in the general direction of masculine” / “AMAB person who is somewhere in the general direction of feminine”.
So for example (re: transmasculine), you may see a trans guy, an (AFAB etc.) trans genderqueer-but-leans-masculine person, and a bigender male/female person ID as transmasculine, even if the latter two might feel “trans man” is inaccurate. On the other hand, you may see an agender person, a non-binary-but-still-womanish person, and a fluid-between-several-genders person all decide to take neither label, even if the last one might be masculine sometimes (or even a lot of the time).
yep! i use terms like trans woman to refer to myself sometimes, but the most comfortable thing for me is transfemme. there’s a distiction for me and it’s kinda vague and probably needs more exploration, but yes this is a thing!
Trans masc is often used for nonbinary people, although some trans men have been known to use it. It’s someone who was assigned female at birth, but IDs with a greater masculine gender identity than a feminine one. So, yes, a trans man or nonbinary person.
All trans men are trans masculine but not all trans masculine folks are trans men, if that helps. Trans masculine includes also some nonbinary and genderfluid folks and is more of a general term for those who are FAAB or intersex trans people who ID more on the masculine side of the gender spectrum than society would like.
It can be depending on the individual. It is more often used by nonbinary people to my knowledge though for ones that feel they present more masculine or relate more to masculinity but still don’t feel they are specifically male or just male.
I don’t think a trans man would be specifically offended if called trans masc though, but they might ask you to use a different term depending on the precise individual.
First of all, no trans guy would just walk around in his binder. that just doesn’t happen, especially not in a college dorm hallway. MAYBE the beach, and only with other trans or queer folk.
Secondly, as has been a theme in DOA, we get like a brief glimpse of the trans/queer person themself and the focus in on the Ally support. Re: Joyce punching Toedad and breaking her fist, and then we see just one panel of our Token Trans Guy and then the rest of the panel is talking about what great allies they are and then talking about where he showers?! like, that’s just, really bizzare.
I’ve stated this before but I really don’t like how Willis tries to tell queer stories. I want them IN the story, but he tries to incorporate our struggles he can’t relate to and it shows in instances like this. Let queer people tell stories about queer struggles. Cishets can write about us (PLEASE DO) but you don’t need to mention how hard it is being a Poor Queer every plotline.
It’s good intentions which of course I do appreciate, don’t get me wrong.
IDK, there are definitely some trans guys who are out and proud and wouldn’t give a shit about people seeing them in their binders (especially since, on a certain body type, they really do just look like undershirts). I don’t know enough about this character yet to know if he’s one of them, but… I do know they theoretically exist, I’ve met them haha.
I also assume the focus on Joyce in that storyline is the fact that she’s, like… THE main character of the comic? ;~; As A Gay™ I didn’t feel at all like Becky was sidelined, there was a ton of focus on her feelings and how to move past that kind of trauma. There was just also focus on Joyce since she’s the main main character of the ensemble cast.
hi i get the second point but uhh i moved across town from my dorm wearing jeans and a binder please don’t. presume all Real trans people have the same comfort zones :/
Between this and the trans dude higher up in the thread grinning about being represented, I’m kiiinda thinking that maybe Kole’s problem is more limited to his own experience here.
One of my friends completed his transition recently – and he used to walk around in his binder all the time, especially in summer as it’s fucking hot and disgusting here.
I don’t have the comfort level to do that (plus a naturally pear-shaped build means I need all the clothing help I can to cover up my hips). But just cuz I don’t doesn’t mean other trans guys I know can’t.
I mean, he’s been in one strip. Maybe it’ll turn out okay. Also a trans guy here, and I’m just really hoping he turns out to be a character I can love.
yeah I hope so too I just. Dont like how the focus here is on the Good Ally Support instead of the trans guy himself. Then talking about where he showers is just sort of …. really weird, I’d be upset if my cisgender friends talked among themselves about where I shower even if it’s in support.
Given Rose’s blindness about who she’s talking to, I’m not sure it’s “what a nice ally” what we are seeing here.
I’ll suspend judgement till we see how this plays out.
Yeah…. I’m with CJ. Willis’s MO is to take typical problematic tropes and twist them. In Carla’s case, it was the Sweet Victim Trans Woman – where instead of being helpless and saintly, Carla solved the problem herself since nobody else was going to. All the Good Allies fucked up (Ruth, Dorothy, etc) or didn’t give enough of a fuck (Pudding Head Res Life Coordinator Whose Name Escapes Me, etc) to do jack shit. In Sarah’s case, it’s the Angry Black Woman trope, where instead of just being a head-wagging caricature, you see why Sarah is so reserved and prickly.
(And personally, I think once Joe deflates his head a bit, he and Sarah could be a good pair since they both are looking for the same thing – just some nice, casual and fun sex. Same reason why he and Roz made a good pair until he Joed it up.)
I’m really hoping Zaph (… please please please let him have chosen that name that as a reference to Zaphod Beeblebrox. Please. Cuz that’d be fucking wonderful nerdy humor reference. And I know other trans dudes who’ve chosen names of fictional nerdy characters who’ve inspired them or who they relate to – one guy I know goes by Vanyel, for example, and his name change is finalized next month. And yes, that is a Mercedes Lackey reference, from back when her Valdemar books were actually, y’know, good. Before she got bored and was just pounding out the Valdemar series to satisfy her publisher so she could work on shit she actually enjoys doing) is going to be an inversion of the Good Ally / Trans Inspiration Porn tropes here. No guarantee that he’s going to, but could be.
Also: Rose is totally a condescending shite. Loaded question wording much? There’s a difference between, “Hey, want me to help?” and “Are you sure you don’t want my help?” First is actually helpful, second is passive-aggressive manipulation bullshit, especially if the refusal is followed by “If you’re sure” and a passive-aggressive reiteration that the person offering “help” thinks you’re fucking incompetent. See also: My mother’s favorite playbook. This type of manipulative emotional abuse gets my rage button firing quickly, so I am hoping for Rose’s sake she isn’t actually as bad as she’s made out to be here else I might have a new most-hated character (why, yes, I hate that shit even more than I hate Mary’s Maryiness. Cuz at least Mary is forthright about her bigotry. She’s an odious toad, but an honest odious toad. You know what to expect from her, and that is consistent awfulness. Unlike with this style of manipulative emotional abusers, whose very playbook is to make you unsure of what to expect and even of reality itself. Fuck that type of emotional abuser).
I can’t comment about if Rose is passive aggressive or not (since we barely know her yet), but… does that always come off that way? I’m, like, actually asking, no sarcasm or anything. ;~; Because I’ll often ask if someone’s sure if they want help and don’t at all mean it passive aggressively. I have a ton of friends who WILL NOT ask for help when they need it or tell me what they really want unless I badger then with “Are you sure you don’t need help? ARE YOU SUPER SURE???” If they say no after that, then cool! But I often do need to check multiple times to make absolutely sure, and I often leave it at “okay, if you’re sure!” not as a way to manipulate them, but to leave it open in case they change their mind.
(Hopefully that doesn’t come off as condescending to you? Basically, I guess I’m both surprised by hearing your take on it and now worried that I’m coming off completely the opposite of how I mean to OMG.)
Other’s mileage may vary but my mother was alway terrible about continuing to ask until she got the answer she wanted because obvs I was too incompetent to tell if I needed help at all so someone insisting on helping after I have refused is something which hits my rage button hard.
If you want a good example of what I am talking about, look up Mother Knows Best from tangled…. it isn’t just the are you sure you don’t want help, it is the taking credit for others’ achievements and little sly digs at the person and all the rest – rn I don’t know for sure if Rose is like that but she is showing a couple red flags for it.
I’m ok with twisting problematic tropes. I’m not ok with someone who does not experience that trope irl (in this case, a cisgender ally) trying to twist the trope. It’s patronizing.
Like CJ says, I’m not sure Rose is meant as a shining example of an Ally.
There’s definitely something off about this whole dorm and it’s way too blatant for it not to be intentional.
Possibly that it’s just an over-the-top reversal of the main cast’s floor with no in-world rationale or deeper significance – like McAwesome’s in SP!
I’m not sure that there’s much wrong with the depiction of the trans dude himself per se, I mean he only says one line. The issue I think is Rose’s attitude towards him, which definitely seems patronizing. All in all she doesn’t come off well in this strip.
yeah that’s my thinking as well. unless there’s something else i’m missing, willis has done a mostly good job of portraying problematic characters and interactions as such.
As a straight, white, close to middle aged guy I’m obviously best placed to comment on this so here goes…I take the first part of the strip to be that Rose has helped Zaph before in that he says “Naw, I think I’m good today” suggesting, to me anyway, that there have been days where he hasn’t been good so Rose making the offer under these circumstances isn’t patronizing as when Zaph says no Rose doesn’t push the issue and instead smiles
However I’m completely bewildered as to the last panel, I mean how many days has Billie been there for to Rose to say something like this?
I have no idea how this story line is going to play out but the inhabitants seem really strange to me (but then I’m not american so maybe thats part of it) in that this seems to be an extreme case of hero worship
I get that, Lucy excepted, most of the inhabitants would be considered homely especially when compared to the rest of the main cast but even so the hero worship of Billie seems a bit over the top, to me
Not a frequent reader of comments, so sorry if this has been discussed thoroughly before.
I’m confused about Billie’s cheerleader status and the adulation(?) some are showing towards it. I do get it’s meant to be humorous but I can’t put it into context.
Or is it just so simple that in university “Oh, you were a cheerleader, ok” is the usual attitude and “Oh, you were a cheerleader, that’s sooo coool!!!!” is more rare? A sort of regression to high school years?
My take is that Billie hit a rare pocket of people who find her having been a cheerleader to count for something, and it’s mostly narratively useful because of the contrast to the more typical reception she got in her previous dorm when she discovered that people in the real world don’t care if you were hot stuff in high school.
It would show that, if it was being played as “this is the normal proper attitude of reverence to cheerleaders”, rather than “this is a weird thing happening in this weird too nice dorm”.
Before this, the only character to have anything of that attitude was Billie herself and that was shown mostly as her clinging to her lost status.
Also, recall that Forrest Quad in many ways is this universe’s equivalent of McAwesome’s in Shortpacked! (If you’re unfamiliar with it from SP!, it’s basically a ‘Dark Mirror’ reflection of the main cast, but since the main cast of SP! were all jerks, everyone at McAwesome’s was, well, awesome). It sort of serves as a Dark Mirror here, as well – everyone in Read hall ignored the fact that Billie’s a cheerleader, so everyone in Forrest respects it, everyone in Read saw Billie as a psycho stressmonkey, so everyone here sees her as wise and popular.
I’ll take people’s word for it that there are places, post high-school, where being a cheerleader is impressive to people who weren’t cheerleaders.
But, man, I really haven’t met any, and for some reason this arc is bending my suspension of disbelief moreso than, uh, a 18-year-old vigilante stabbing a rapist.
It’s weird. In my high school, there were cheerleaders who thought they were hot sh!t, but pretty much nobody else did. Cheerleaders rarely won prom queen even (prom queen was always someone incredibly attractive, but was just as likely to be, for instance, a girl who was soccer team captain and had a popular sketch-comedy podcast; runner up that year did makeup tutorials on YouTube and organized a lot of school fundraisers and the local chapter of Amnesty International).
And post high school, everybody was ready to move on.
Keep in mind that in the Midwest, football is HUGE! IU has an NCAA Division I football team, and Indiana is also home to Notre Dame, also huge for football. So I could see cheerleading being a huge social deal, and even into college where football is big too.
My experience is more like yours, since I went to high school and college in the Northeast. High School football wasn’t that big of a deal (I think our baseball team was better). In college, the football team was division III, while the hockey team was Division I. Being in the Pep Band mattered more than cheerleading.
I hope she says something about this soon, and also that this strange “hero worship” thing everyone’s got going on with Billie ends soon. It’s just…. weird.
This whole arc is shattering my suspension of disbelief more than any of Amazigirl’s reality defying acrobatics. Like the idea that people above the age of 17 are this impressed with someone who isn’t even currently a cheerleader but simply USED to be one in high school is just baffling to me but maybe it’s a result of not being raised in America’s weird sport obsessed culture.
Cheerleaders are not a big deal, at all. My sister was one, I knew several in high school. Some were nice, some were total bongoes, others were somewhere between. I am still trying to figure out where Hollywood got this idea that cheerleaders are these god like figures of high school that must be worshiped. I treated pretty much every one that I knew with casual indifference.
It’s possible it’s supposed to be weird? After all, no one else in the history of this comic has been impressed that Billie was a cheerleader, now suddenly the “opposites” dorm is all impressed and it shatters your disbelief because you think Willis is intending it to be normal?
Never lived in USA either, pretty sure it is supposed to weird that these people have hero worship for Billie for being a cheerleader. Like, unless your biggest dream in life was to be a cheerleader and you were unable to be for some reason, I don’t see why it would be a big deal, but I don’t think it is weird there is less than a handful of people that do think it is either, because people are weird and will admire weird things.
Just about anything can be a name. Sure, they sound weird when they’re coined, or weird in different cultural contexts, but contexts vary and people get used to them. Case in point, Apple was a weird name, but around 2008 most people didn’t seem to mind it (and the main impression for it was a very sweet girl) and so now it’s ended up as a (rare) name. Uma sounds weird in Japan, where it means ‘horse’ but it’s completely different in other languages where it means ‘one’ or in Sanskrit where it’s another name for Parvati.
My point is – context varies, tastes in names change, etc.
I’m actually impressed by the fact that that article didn’t call them dinosaurs, and in fact specifically referred to them as a separate group the pterosaurs ‘soared over’.
How long before lucy snaps and tries to murder billie for being “just the best” and is taken away to the loony bin or just runs into the woods to become the animal she always knew she was??
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…Do Lucy and Billie have easily-confused voices? I mean, this is as confusing as when Billie managed to scream “RUTH LESSICK IS A WHORE” without Ruth knowing exactly who it was. I’ve been puzzled about that since that strip’s run.
What’s so confusing about it? She was off-panel, Ruth couldn’t see who the speech bubble was coming from.
*Rose
maybe that’s the joke?
They’re both voiced by Hynden Walch
Everyone in this form is voiced by Mark Hamill.
Everyone.
Everyone except for Mark Hamill, who is voiced by Danny Devito.
Yes, indeed. Everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL-VHe_4GmE
Let me guess. She’s using Starfire voice for Lucy and Darkfire voice for Billie? Or is it the other way around, just to be unpredictable?
ehhhh I think she knew, based on the “‘random’ drug searches” comment.
As someone who’s HoH, if I can’t tell who said something I certainly wouldn’t’ve been able to tell what they said. One kind of comes before the other, ya know? Especially how I rely on lipreading when someone doesn’t know ASL.
Unless their voices really are that similar. But then her hearing wouldn’t come into it, would it? But if not then… Now I’m confusing myself.
Or maybe she doesn’t see the toothbrush and thinks Billie is signing something? Wrong? Smoking pipe? Drinking alcohol? Oops? Ah, whatever, I’m over-complicating it. I get the joke and I’m ruining it. 😛
I hope this comic doesn’t mess up on ASL. It’s easy to, as many don’t realize it’s not at all like English, and unlike a regular typo you can’t fix it as easily.
Uh, I mean… no pressure?
I’ve noticed a couple odd choices Willis made, but nothing I’d consider “wrong”. If he wants, he could maybe ask someone for advice on specific phrases in the comments? Then again, that might be slight spoilers. But with the buffer, we’d all forget by then, wouldn’t we?
I got the impression it was Beatrice who was the one to mainly use ASL/lip reading, not Rose (well, with Nash) – http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/salacious/
So I believe Rose is hearing fine (at least with what we’ve seen of her in-comic)
I mean seeing as she’s managed to confuse the voices of two people of whom one very clearly has a toothbrush in their mouth and is thus incapable of clear speech I’d have to question just how good her hearing is.
True. Maybe her ears are blinded by her idealisation of Billie? Can ears be blinded?
It’s playing off the fact that everyone in this dorm automatically treats Billie as a hero (and probably treats Lucy as inconsequential), so when someone says something nice, it gets attributed to Billie regardless.
Which page was that?
DAMN, Rose! wtf
I’m beginning to think McAwesome’s Dormitory and Bounce Castle isn’t so great
(I mean panel 5, to be clear)
It’s basically a manifestation of everything that Billie thought that college was going to be like when she first arrived.
Buh wha?
Relevant Gravitar is relevant
Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!
…I mean, Billie, Billie, Billie!
Hey, this isn’t Marcie’s fault!
Sure it is! She secretly taught Billie sign language off panel, which is clearly how Billie responded without Lucy hearing her.
Look, it’s not Marcie’s fault her lessons for Malaya were so popular. Sue a girl for making friends!
Incidentally, glad to know I’m not the only one who likes to walk around while brushing their teeth. It’s just too boring otherwise.
That’s what books are for!
Books in the evening when flossing and brushing.
Pick out clothes in the morning.
Ok I’m lost
The showers are that-a-way. Just follow Zaph.
I’m assuming Zaph is trans; using the right showers would be good for the mood.
Presumably Zaph is this dorm’s reverse analog of Carla.
So does that mean he also is a brilliant engineer, or is that different too and he’s a walking techbane?
Engineers hate him!!
College kid discovers this one weird trick that will RUIN TECHNOLOGY
You need bogon sources around you, otherwise you only produce stuff that will never be usable in the real world.
So, you’re a Tinker Gnome from WoW?
AmaziGirl’s archenemy, Luddite Man
If he’s in a STEM field, maybe he’s on the programming side, or maybe a genius technical writer like Caroline Rose. (I wouldn’t trust an engineer to write end-user documentation; it will be technically correct, but incomprehensible to the average user.)
If he’s the bane of all technology, he’s probably strong in a creative design field. (Assuming Forest Quad is equal-but-opposite of Read Hall.)
“End-user documentation.” Is that what they’re calling “instruction manuals” these days?
See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about! The techs’ writings shouldn’t go out to the world before a good technical writer fixes it.
Oookay i shoulda been specific, but that’s really on me I see where the confusion was there. I got that Zaph was a trans dude I just don’t get whats goin on in that last interacton with Lucy, Rose and Billie
I thought this was a really funny thread because I correctly interpreted your comment and then the replies were weird.
Anyway, my interpretation of it is that Lucy is being hyperbolically overshawdowed by Billie in the eyes of her floormates.
In the second to last panel Lucy said something nice while rose was turned away. She turned around to see Lucy and Billie there, and despite Billy having her mouth full with a toothbrush, assumed that Billie was the one making the comment.
Lucy’s frown in the last panel, combined with the growing disillusionment from the previous strip is likely making her less than happy with Billie. Bill is oblivious, and likely uncaring about the whole thing.
Lucy apparently is the Rodney Dangerfield of her floor: she gets no respect. And this seems to have been true even before Billie descended from the heavens to walk among her floor-mates. Now, her best hope at minimal acknowledgment is to point out to her floor-mates, at every opportunity, that she alone is the roommate of the radiant, numinous, and benevolent Head Cheerleader of the Golden Dragons.
I forget if Zaph is a character from the Walkyverse or if he’s completely new.
He was Rose’s boyfriend in the Walkyverse, being the happy-opposite of Faz (Rose being the opposite of Amber). Later they found out that they were siblings, around the same time that Amber found out Faz was her half-brother.
*Rose and Zaph, half-siblings. Also, both of them were themselves half-siblings to Amber (and Faz).
Blaine had a lot of descendants.
Which means, going off Willis’ previous comment, we’ve no idea what their genealogical status is this time around.
Though, frankly, I’m still trying to figure out where Faz came from in DoA, given that he appears to not be related to either Blaine or Stacy/Amber. Adding more mysterious not-siblings to DoA just leaves us with even more questions. 😛
The moment someone thought “Man, it would be terrible if there was a Faz in the Dumbiverse”, he appeared in Blaine’s spare room, full-formed and every bit as terrible as we expected.
He was Faz’s equivalent at McAwesome’s. Implied to also be one of Blaine’s kids IIRC.
Zaph is from McAwesome’s and is bizarro Faz.
Taking in account that every other family situation has been mantained, does this mean that Rose and Zaph are also Blaine-spawn?
I believe Willis hinted on his Twitter account that Blaine’s mafia-backstory may be kept (responding to a TVTropes note that said essentially, “Blaine’s mafia past from Shortpacked! seems to be excised” by saying something along the lines of, <b"who says it's excised?"), so…shrug?
Dangit, messed up the formatting. And I was so careful…time for bed I think.
Dr Dick told Joe he was a mob stooge (and a literal evil human being): http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/disengage/
I wouldn’t say ‘every other family situation has been maintained’ – Joyce has a (slightly) smaller family, Sal and Beef weren’t switched at birth, Carla has a completely different set of parents (being contemporary to her parents’ equivalents), Faz’s relationship to the O’Malleys is known and way less complicated…
It’s really bizarre that Carla is basically going to college with her alt universe parents. I wonder what she would say if she found that out
Amber is Blaine’s only biological child in DoA. Faz is his stepson, from his current wife’s previous marriage.
Oh, Blaine remarried after Stacy? Okay, that explains that. I musta overlooked/forgotten that. 🙂
Getting the feeling that Lucy isn’t the most popular girl in this dorm.
I’m guessing this is just Billie’s inexplicable cheerleader aura at work. =P
Spelling words with your body gives you superpowers?
Does that make The Village People our world’s Justice League? Have they been saving the world from supervillains, aliens, and sentient robots in epic battles that we’ve rationalized as disco concerts with elaborate pyrotechnics?
Aw man, we Galaxy Quest’d it, didn’t we.
There’s no need to feel down.
Pick yourself off the ground.
Wouldn’t it be Reverse-Galaxy-Quest’d it? 🙂
Well, it does explain the costumes…
I think El Goonish Shive ran with that concept once.
I’m getting the feeling she used to be. Before Billie showed up.
Possible, but maybe they were more on equal turns, and now Billie’s there, she’s been put into the high seat, without contributing anything to it, just because of her previous high school status (well, and the fact that they are impressed with her (version of her) relationship with Ruth.
It’s like a group of friends, and suddenly, one friend brings this one cool person in, and instead of reasoning things out the usual way (e.g. where to eat lunch) with everyone having a say in it, they just let the new person decide, simply because they seem cool. Which isn’t so bad if it only happens once, but I get the feeling this will develop not into equal friendships (though Billie might of course try to set things straight)
That could very well be it too. Fair point, I hadn’t looked at it that way.
gosh, I of course meant “equal TERMS” – darn you, brain!
I don’t know. Is there really any evidence here that anyone ever really liked Lucy? I mean, it would kind of explain her over – cheerfulness and desire to please and make friends. Apparently, everyone in this dorm treats her like crap.
I keep wondering. For the most part, people in the DOA Universe have very similar personalities to their Walkyverse personalities. Lucy doesn’t. In Shortpacked, she was definitely nice and friendly, but she was cynical, critical, and called crap when she saw it, specifically when people were being unfair or sexist. I loved Lucy in SP. This Lucy isn’t even a caricature of the old one; she’s completely different in almost every way possible.
I don’t think she’s that different, but it’s been a bit since I read SP I think though, up to this storyline, she’s only been a cameo in Malaya’s scenes and hasn’t had the spotlight on herself, so it could definitely come across as her being radically different.. because she’s had such limited appearances. And that being said, a lot of the scenarios Lucy faced in SP haven’t been shown, like guys gatekeeping nerdom or Malaya being.. Malaya. This is the first conflict she’s been in, so maybe she’ll start being more like her SP self, who knows.
I think that you’re overlooking the fact that Lucy is at least a few years younger here than she was in Shortpacked.
As a college freshman, it makes sense that she hasn’t yet developed the kind of cynicism or confidence as her older counterpart in Shortpacked. What we’re seeing here seems like it could easily push Lucy to be more assertive, and maybe more cynical as well
He was Faz’s McAwesome’s counterpart in Shortpacked!
Whoops, that didn’t reply where I wanted it to
Well, yay for Zaph.
This also makes me wonder, do these dorms have single person unisex bathrooms? My dorm did, and it was interesting because as a friend of mine observed, “No one ever uses it.”
I mean, I used it pretty much exclusively because of gender things. But she’s right that it was almost always free. And that’s interesting because even putting gender aside…who doesn’t want a bathroom with a bit more privacy?
My dorm had communal bathrooms in the hallway, one men’s and one women’s. About a month into the school year, I started to see women in the men’s room.
My dorm had one, and I had the exact opposite thing happen. EVERYONE used it bc it was closer to their rooms and/or bigger and/or more private. YMMV, I guess.
Interesting. By my third year in the dorm, I purposely picked a room right by the unisex bathroom because it was convenient, and yet when my 20 year old RA decided to puke and pass out drunk somewhere, she went for the communal bathroom instead. People are fascinating.
My dorm hall has a men’s room, a women’s room, and two small gender-neutral rooms. The latetr are usually kept free, but mainly because we want to reserve them for the genderqueer dormers who don’t like using the gendered rooms.
That’s very respectful of you! I feel like that was not the reasoning of those in my dorm, but maybe for some of them?
I rarely use it because there are only a few and I’m always worried that if I use it, what if someone who’s nonbinary needs to use it while I’m in there?
Which is weird, because I’m nonbinary.
I feel you. I used to have anxiety about using it for a similar reason/what if someone saw me…go into a bathroom…and immediately knew…and was also a bigot, I guess was the thinking? Eventually, though, the anxiety of using a gendered bathroom outweighed the other anxiety, and I stopped staring at the line between the two figures on the unisex sign and thinking “same” and just started using the bathroom.
You should use whatever bathroom you feel most comfortable using. Whatever one that is, you’re valid. *finger guns*
I have this problem with handicap parking. I’m still fairly mobile/can walk and only use my placard when I’m having a bad pain day, and when there’s only one or 2 free handicap spots I always agonize over whether or not I should REALLY park there because “What if someone worse off than me needs it more???”
Also further complicated by the fact that handicap “authenticity” policing is a thing people with invisible illnesses deal with regularly…I’m always worried someone is going to give me a hard time because I don’t “look” handicapped other than the occasional small limp. 😐
It’s so nice of you to think like that, but by the sound of it, you are already doing everything in your possibility to not hinder someone who might be, as you put it, “worse off”.
And other people who don’t know you have absolutely no right to judge you for parking in a spot you are allowed to park in, just because you don’t “look” handicapped (not to say other people who know you have the right to judge you – nobody has). There might be stupid people, but those are sadly everywhere, so please don’t let anyone discourage you for using those parking spots when you need them.
Also, I’d like to offer a hug, if wanted.
As long as everything is behind stalls (that is, no urinals in the “front” area), nobody’s going to be able to see genitals, so I’m not totally sure why we have segregated bathrooms to begin with. The rec center I attend has an undifferentiated bathroom / shower / changing area. Toilets are behind stalls, showers are behind curtains, use towels as appropriate. And nobody minds.
It is odd, as I’m in the united states and generally people do seem more uncomfortable here even to accidentally see other people’s private areas during changing (hiding one’s own parts is easy; some people just don’t bother and change right on the benches in front of the lockers). But for whatever reason, the vibe in this gym is very chill and non-threatening / non-sexual about nudity.
Hhhhhh I wish most places were like that. :C
As a teen, I had much difficulty changing in front of other people of the same sex by the lockers in the gym, or at a swimming pool, or go into the open (one-sex) shower. I still don’t like it much, mostly because I had body issues (and still have them, sometimes). I can understand some possibly insecure 18-19 year olds feeling uncomfortable with knowing that someone in the stall next door, possibly of another sex, was naked too. And I’m from Europe.
I would’ve, but I thankfully never lived in a dorm…
Might also just be growing up with how to deal with nakedness and personal preferences. My family wasn’t prude in that regard, so I mostly turned out like that because of my own issues.
Just as a possible explanation why some still might have difficulty with shared bathrooms with singular stalls.
(Not even including people that might feel uncomfortable with other naked people for other reasons.)
Yeah I wouldn’t see the need for gendered bathrooms if the fucking doors were all floor to ceiling and remaining clothed until you’re in a stall or shower was mandatory (and showers had doors room at her than curtains!), but as it stands, I super absolutely wouldn’t be comfortable sharing a bathroom or locker room with cis dudes as a group. I don’t need to make it any easier for creepy motherfuckers to be creepy at me, thx
Really, fuck the nonexistent-ass “privacy” we get in communal bathrooms and showers around here. It’s responsible for so much shit.
………
Doors RATHER THAN* curtains
I did great
I actually read somewhere that a single, large, unisex bathroom with the same number of stalls as a pair of gendered bathrooms would be a significant time improvement. Can’t remember where I saw it.
Yeah… Bathrooms…
It’s not unreasonable for someone to have to wait a couple of minutes for the bathroom, but that doesn’t stop anxiety from expecting some jerk will act like it’s unreasonable.
On the gender segregation thing… In elementary school, girls would often climb over or under stall walls to mess with people. I had a lot of trouble peeing in those bathrooms. So, it can be bad even with one gender… But if everyone was using the same washroom, then we’d find out how many creepy guys would take advantage of it, and I kinda don’t want to find out? But I don’t like gendered washrooms either. Why can’t people just not suck? 😛
I used unisex bathrooms where I could for a couple reasons: 1, it tended to be cleaner than the womens’ bathroom (everyone seems to be on their best behavior with regard to hygiene when they know ppl of other genders might see what slobs they are). 2, I just felt better there, for reasons I couldn’t articulate cuz I didn’t know I was trans yet.
Nowadays I really resent that public spaces have few unisex bathrooms. Like I get why people would want their gendered spaces (esp why women want women-specific spaces) because non-gendered spaces tend to be full of gender-normative asshattery and sometimes you just need a fucking break, right?
But yeah, for me – going in the women’s room just makes me entirely too aware of the parts of my body that don’t belong, and I can’t safely try the dudes’ room yet, so I’m fucked. Usually I end up holding it till I get home/to the hotel/whatever, unless I’m desperate, and then especially if I’m in guymode I get a shitload of awkward stares and “Umm… the guys’ room is over there,” and then when I say, “I know” their eyes go wide and they say, “OH. I’m so sorry! I thought-” and it’s awful, cuz like yay I was passing and fuck my voice ruins it, every fucking time and if that were to happen in the guys’ room I’d probably get my ass kicked given the local view of trans people (last summer a trans woman was nearly killed – she was stabbed outside a bar. And I’m always hearing places where folks are threatening horrible things to any trans people they ever encounter and whatever… I know trans women who have a “Fuck it come at me bro” attitude and I admire that, but I am and always have been too much of a survivor at heart to take that posture. Well, that and growing up in a physically abusive household teaches you not to dare a physical fight unless you’re confident you can win it or are completely okay with having the shit kicked out of you if you lose. I am not a brave person, and I’m ok with that – I have never pretended to be otherwise. I’m a fucking coward, and I admit it. I don’t want to get put in hospital or killed for going to the bathroom, so I play it safe even if it’s awful to do so, cuz I’d rather be alive to feel awful, if that makes sense).
Hi could you elaborate more on the “gender-normative asshattery” in non-gendered spaces? Specifically what kind of non-gendered spaces (public places like grocery stores??) do you mean, and also a few examples of asshattery (really not sure what that means; is it the way men often treat women?), if you would be so kind. Because to me it seems like cisnormative standards are everywhere, whether the space is gendered or not.
There is but not as much of predatory shit in single gender spaces. Dudes can’t try to sexually assault a woman if they aren’t around type of thing.
Oh, yeah, I agree. I feel more comfortable when I’m around women myself. (Not sure about queer men – I don’t have enough experience being around them to say.) I don’t know how cis, non-queer women feel about being around me though. I wonder if they feel weird, since I’m quite androgynous (maybe masculine of center) in behaviour and appearance. But I’m really quiet and reserved, so I think people are more creeped out by that. I’m also very short and skinny, so I’m not much of a physical threat, but I probably give off the vibe of ‘creepy little weirdo who never talks’. And sometimes I’m walking behind a person or group of people, and probably seem like a small, strange stalker because I’m so quiet and walking alone behind them. People have looked behind at me as it happened, and I felt like that. Especially when they’re all cis women.
ischemgeek, you are NOT a coward for prioritizing your physical safety!
I’m a cis queer lady and disabled to boot. And you know what? Self-care like seeking out safe spaces and hanging out with supportive people is vital. It helps store up your courage so you can use it when it really counts. Courage is a muscle, I think, and it absolutely needs exercise– small acts of bravery can lead to bigger ones. Yet, at the same time, nobody can run a marathon if they’ve already spent all day running on a treadmill, right? So courage can be exhausted. I think sometimes people think they have less courage than others because they don’t realize how often they have to use theirs when others don’t have to.
I don’t know you irl, so I guess I can’t make a big sweeping statement about your bravery. But, the actions you talk about in your comment are not acts of cowardice. I suspect you are much braver than you realize. The transwomen in your life whose attitude you admire, I’ll bet they admire you too. There are many ways to be brave.
Noooo, Lucy’s too nice, don’t break her heart like this. ;-;
(Billie is probably very confused here)
*plays Eric Johnson’s “Zap” on the hacked Muzak*
I was going to comment on Zaph being trans when I remembered he was designed as not-Faz and now I have to Ponder on that
maybe it means faz is the cis-est cis guy?
Maybe I’m wrong to conflate the cis-trans spectrum and the gay-straight spectrum, but it seems like an odd thought that the cis-est guy would be bisexual. Given that Faz was totally clueless about his bisexuality, I’m choosing to believe that though Zaph may have normal fears regarding his gender, he is the most secure in his sexuality of any bi person on the planet.
Yeah that is wrong.
IME, trans folks are more likely to accept non-het sexuality in themselves, so we appear to have higher rates of not-being-straight (with the exception of some of the old schooler Harry Benjamin types who overcompensate to prove how trans they are and need to be seen as straighter than straights), but being trans doesn’t have much to do with sexuality. Most of the trans folks I’ve met are straight… I’m bi, I know a few pan types, and a couple aces/aros, as well.
But cis folks can be straight.
I’m wondering if Zaph is actually Straighty McStraighterson, or maybe he’s just suuuper ace with very little sex drive at all. Him being incredibly respectful and careful of boundaries would make sense, too – especially since he’s a relatively small-built trans dude (meaning he’s probably experienced his fair share of sexual harassment before he hatched and knows first-hand how much boundary encroachments suck).
Baaaah I am sorry I somehow forgot to retype my entire third paragraph. All I can blame is fucked up sleep schedule.
What I meant to say is: But cis folks can be straight, bi, or gay or any other orientation. It doesn’t tie to your gender. They’re more likely to stay closeted about it, I think, than trans folk, though – which might contribute to the “trans folk are more likely to be queer in other ways” perception that exists out there – a lot of cis folks I know, especially with non-binary sexual orientations, recloset as they age if they find a stable het relationship, and I don’t really blame them. Reouting yourself to every asshole who assumes because your relationship looks straight, you are straight, gets tiring after a while, and the LGBT community would in general prefer to pretend B doesn’t exist except as questioning on the way to an L or G orientation or as straight poseurs, IME as a bi person. So you can stay closeted and get fake acceptance, or out yourself constantly and get shit on from all sides. Doesn’t really surprise me that a lot of cis bi, pan, ace/aro folks recloset as they age.
There have been studies done by trans activism organizations that say that roughly half of us ID as bi, pan, or queer, with the rest split mostly equally between gay and straight, with a chunk of “other” that includes ace folks.
Now, I would personally imagine that that is about correct for the cisgender population and that we’re just the leading edge of what society as a whole is correcting itself towards, but that’s not currently the understanding.
Zaph oh my heart
Is the implication here that Zaph is Transmale? if so that’s awsome.
I am unsure if you’re being sarcastic above but just in case you’re not, here’s the various things that code him trans:
* He is seen living in the girls dorm, but referred to with he pronouns.
* He is wearing a half-shirt binder (the cut and color looks like Willis used GC2B brand half-shirt binders as a reference, actually).
* He is being offered support to use the dude’s bathrooms.
* He is explicitly stated as only having used them for 4 days so far (today beign day 5).
* He is wearing a pair of men’s boxers as his PJ pants instead of the more feminine-coded pajamas everyone else on the floor is wearing.
* He has the Unofficial Trans Dude Egg With Noncurly Hair Haircut (literally every trans dude I’ve met who doesn’t have curly hair, me included, has had that exact haircut at least once, because you can gel it back and poof it up at the top for a more masculine look or you can come it down in front for a more feminine look – it’s a very safe haircut for a trans egg to play with gender presentation with, and unlike an undercut or fauxhawk, it’d doesn’t necessarily explicitly code you as queer cuz cishet women often have very similar haircuts if they’re trying for the Audrey Hepburn look, so it’s closet-friendly as well. Hell, I’m currently sporting it as I figure out how to make transing work at work).
… Sooo, yes, I would say that the implication here is that he is trans. I think the only way to code him more trans within the space of a single strip would be to have him dressed in the colors of the trans flag or something.
haha I have the trans dude egg haircut oh fuck >_<
Doesn’t necessarily mean you are trans (as I mentioned a lot of cis women have it) but OTOH weirdly relating to and being “omg same” or like “hey I do that too but totes not trans u guys lol” to trans narratives I was drawn to for an inexplicable reason was how I first started to question.
It is your own journey to travel and we are here for you if you need a sympathetic ear or sounding board.
She is being ignored and overshadowed by Billie’s existence. Lucy’s true fear emerges: replacement by the cheerleader. This may be something that has happened before with friends in high school. And honestly, I would be wary of cheerleaders too if that happened to me.
Lucy is not an alpha bongo. Not even a beta bongo. She is a kappa conga, at best.
Kappa don’t play drums…it makes the water fall out of their headbowls.
Headbanging never took off in Japanese folklore… unless you are one of those floaty-head-ghost-thingie, I suppose.
Lucy is not a bongo at all, she is a nice person with nerd interests, clearly she does not belong! Begone nice person!
Though more seriously the alpha-beta-omega hierarchy is complete bull to begin with anyway. If this was not a joke, I would have to fight you because bad science is my greatest archnemesis.
Oh, absolutely. People who feel inspired by wolves most often do not understand wolves very well.
Although when it comes to bongo drums I now entertain the headcanon that there is a strict hierarchy.
Yes. Anyone who calls themselves an alpha male, or refers to someone else as a beta or omega… deserves to be struck by lightning. It is the only way.
Bongo drums totally have a hierarchy. Small ones are at the top of the hierarchy because that makes for easier stacking for storage and cheerleading routines.
Epsilon Snare.
I feel bad for Lucy, but this is partially her own intensity coming back to bite her in the ass. She built up her new roommate so that she could be cool and get attention by association, and now Billie’s overshadowing Lucy through no fault of her own.
Lucy didn’t build up Billie, she was the last one to meet her and the only thing that could be seen as actually playing her up to others was maybe her selfie with her??? Everyone else built up Billie in their own damn minds based off the fact she is a cheerleader, whereas that keeps causing Lucy to withdraw and deflate instinctively for a few moments.
Okay, I feel like I missed something.
Zaph was (iirc) one of the McAwesome’s staff in Shortpacked; here, he’s a student who’s apparently newly out as trans and adjusting. Rose has been helping him by waiting outside while he showers to make sure no one messes with him. Lucy is giving her a pep talk, which Rose attributes to Billie, making Lucy feel overlooked.
At least, that’s my take.
I just realised that ‘Zaph’ is ‘Faz’ backwards.
That was, I believe, the original joke behind his name.
(See also: “Rose” and “Amber” both being red-ish shades)
No, I realised he was the Faz counterpart. But I didn’t catch the name thing right away.
But not as backwards as Faz.
Yeah it took me a few “bizarro Faz” posts to catch on to that too…
Aw come on. Poor Lucy 🙁
Uh, okay, this is coming off as very creepy and slightly malicious?
Like, did Rose just imagine the entire time that she was talking to Billie?
For whatever reason, she seems to have some sort of hero worship for Billie, and her brain basically fit her perception to the narrative it wanted.
Poor Lucy 🙁
Interesting Zaph made it into this universe. What is he wearing? Are cut-off muscle shirts a thing, or am I misinterpreting it?
p sure that’s a binder. I have one kind of like it but a different color.
Thanks! I didn’t know they looked like that.
They look a few different ways. I have one like that and one that I guess looks more like a full muscle shirt, but the fabric below the part that’s actually doing the binding tends to bunch up on me, so I prefer ones styled like his. There are other styles as well.
There’s a variety or styles, but they usually just look like undershirts. Or sometimes like slightly long sports bras, IDK haha.
Oh I see what’s going on here….what the fuck.
woah just what is up with everyone, it happened once and I was like ok that makes…..some kinda sense but twice is a pattern! Lucy doesn’t deserve this!
how to not do anything and get hated regardless
Lucy has now become the Luigi to Billies Mario.
Can’t tell if Lucy would appreciate that reference or not.
I think she’d be both – pleased by its aptness, and that she “got” it, and crushed by the actual effect.
But then she’d be a Goomba, not Luigi.
Your analogy is flawed!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Everyone likes her more and she’s way more interesting and fun as a character?
Wait – I never knew Luigi is actually more popular than Mario?? Because I like Luigi a lot, and Mario is just boring. I feel justified in my preference.
Jumping high is good! #TeamLuigi
GO TEAMLUIGI!
Oh my God, I never imagined Billie could be so dangerous in a different environment. It’s like one of those invasive species.
Quick, send her back before she kills off the native wildlife with her mysterious previously unencountered diseases!
Note: This has been a real issue with invasive species that were brought over due to similarity to a known species.
I knew it!
Lucy doesn’t deserve this shit
Is “transmasc” the (a?) proper term? Anyway, Zaph appears to be the first character in this who shares his brand of queerness with a person I know in real life. Cool.
“Trans man” (specifically as separate, un-hyphenated words) is what I understood was commonly preferred, over “transmale/masculine”, as being trans and a man are two distinct attributes.
Trans masc and trans man can also be two separate things, so Zaph could be one or the other or both or neither, I suppose. (I mean, from this strip I’m reading that he’s a trans guy, but there’s a lot of identities out there, you know?)
Oh, I see! I didn’t realize there might be a distinction there.
Trans man/woman refers specifically to men and women, whereas transmasculine and transfeminine (which are used as adjectives, fyi) are used for the more general sense of “AFAB person who is somewhere in the general direction of masculine” / “AMAB person who is somewhere in the general direction of feminine”.
So for example (re: transmasculine), you may see a trans guy, an (AFAB etc.) trans genderqueer-but-leans-masculine person, and a bigender male/female person ID as transmasculine, even if the latter two might feel “trans man” is inaccurate. On the other hand, you may see an agender person, a non-binary-but-still-womanish person, and a fluid-between-several-genders person all decide to take neither label, even if the last one might be masculine sometimes (or even a lot of the time).
Tl;dr transmasculine includes non-binary people.
yep! i use terms like trans woman to refer to myself sometimes, but the most comfortable thing for me is transfemme. there’s a distiction for me and it’s kinda vague and probably needs more exploration, but yes this is a thing!
That’s a really helpful explanation, thank you!
Another “thanks” from the assembled crowd.
Trans masc is often used for nonbinary people, although some trans men have been known to use it. It’s someone who was assigned female at birth, but IDs with a greater masculine gender identity than a feminine one. So, yes, a trans man or nonbinary person.
All trans men are trans masculine but not all trans masculine folks are trans men, if that helps. Trans masculine includes also some nonbinary and genderfluid folks and is more of a general term for those who are FAAB or intersex trans people who ID more on the masculine side of the gender spectrum than society would like.
It can be depending on the individual. It is more often used by nonbinary people to my knowledge though for ones that feel they present more masculine or relate more to masculinity but still don’t feel they are specifically male or just male.
I don’t think a trans man would be specifically offended if called trans masc though, but they might ask you to use a different term depending on the precise individual.
newly-self-aware* trans guy here, gotta say that this strip made me grin like a loon
*i’d say out but no one irl knows yet, so
hello freshly hatched friend!
The fact that it made you grin makes ME grin. Congratulations on the newly found self-awareness! 🙂
Made me grin too cuz I literally never see trans dudes anywhere.
If the correct thing to say is “NEEEEEEEEERD” Billie has you covered, but somehow I don’t think “NEEEEEEEERD” is the correct thing to say right now.
Nah even she doesn’t have you covered on the with a toothbrush in her mouth, maybe a ‘Meeeeerp’ with spittle sprayed at you
Sounds like proper punishment for a nerd.
Sounds like a very non-nerdy thing to do.
Yay trans guy yay ^_^
I smell trouble brewin’.
never have i seen a comic strip that heals and wounds me at the same time until today
Neat, I was wondering if there was going to be a transmale character in DoA.
But OTOH, poor Lucy.
Seriously?!
this is the most patronizing depiction of a trans dude ive ever seen an ally make in my life lol
inb4 the cis flock to tell me a trans dude im wrong
It’s okay if you’d rather not elaborate, but I’m curious why it’s patronizing so I can avoid doing anything similar
Seconded.
First of all, no trans guy would just walk around in his binder. that just doesn’t happen, especially not in a college dorm hallway. MAYBE the beach, and only with other trans or queer folk.
Secondly, as has been a theme in DOA, we get like a brief glimpse of the trans/queer person themself and the focus in on the Ally support. Re: Joyce punching Toedad and breaking her fist, and then we see just one panel of our Token Trans Guy and then the rest of the panel is talking about what great allies they are and then talking about where he showers?! like, that’s just, really bizzare.
I’ve stated this before but I really don’t like how Willis tries to tell queer stories. I want them IN the story, but he tries to incorporate our struggles he can’t relate to and it shows in instances like this. Let queer people tell stories about queer struggles. Cishets can write about us (PLEASE DO) but you don’t need to mention how hard it is being a Poor Queer every plotline.
It’s good intentions which of course I do appreciate, don’t get me wrong.
IDK, there are definitely some trans guys who are out and proud and wouldn’t give a shit about people seeing them in their binders (especially since, on a certain body type, they really do just look like undershirts). I don’t know enough about this character yet to know if he’s one of them, but… I do know they theoretically exist, I’ve met them haha.
I also assume the focus on Joyce in that storyline is the fact that she’s, like… THE main character of the comic? ;~; As A Gay™ I didn’t feel at all like Becky was sidelined, there was a ton of focus on her feelings and how to move past that kind of trauma. There was just also focus on Joyce since she’s the main main character of the ensemble cast.
hi i get the second point but uhh i moved across town from my dorm wearing jeans and a binder please don’t. presume all Real trans people have the same comfort zones :/
Between this and the trans dude higher up in the thread grinning about being represented, I’m kiiinda thinking that maybe Kole’s problem is more limited to his own experience here.
One of my friends completed his transition recently – and he used to walk around in his binder all the time, especially in summer as it’s fucking hot and disgusting here.
I don’t have the comfort level to do that (plus a naturally pear-shaped build means I need all the clothing help I can to cover up my hips). But just cuz I don’t doesn’t mean other trans guys I know can’t.
I mean, he’s been in one strip. Maybe it’ll turn out okay. Also a trans guy here, and I’m just really hoping he turns out to be a character I can love.
yeah I hope so too I just. Dont like how the focus here is on the Good Ally Support instead of the trans guy himself. Then talking about where he showers is just sort of …. really weird, I’d be upset if my cisgender friends talked among themselves about where I shower even if it’s in support.
Given Rose’s blindness about who she’s talking to, I’m not sure it’s “what a nice ally” what we are seeing here.
I’ll suspend judgement till we see how this plays out.
Yeah…. I’m with CJ. Willis’s MO is to take typical problematic tropes and twist them. In Carla’s case, it was the Sweet Victim Trans Woman – where instead of being helpless and saintly, Carla solved the problem herself since nobody else was going to. All the Good Allies fucked up (Ruth, Dorothy, etc) or didn’t give enough of a fuck (Pudding Head Res Life Coordinator Whose Name Escapes Me, etc) to do jack shit. In Sarah’s case, it’s the Angry Black Woman trope, where instead of just being a head-wagging caricature, you see why Sarah is so reserved and prickly.
(And personally, I think once Joe deflates his head a bit, he and Sarah could be a good pair since they both are looking for the same thing – just some nice, casual and fun sex. Same reason why he and Roz made a good pair until he Joed it up.)
I’m really hoping Zaph (… please please please let him have chosen that name that as a reference to Zaphod Beeblebrox. Please. Cuz that’d be fucking wonderful nerdy humor reference. And I know other trans dudes who’ve chosen names of fictional nerdy characters who’ve inspired them or who they relate to – one guy I know goes by Vanyel, for example, and his name change is finalized next month. And yes, that is a Mercedes Lackey reference, from back when her Valdemar books were actually, y’know, good. Before she got bored and was just pounding out the Valdemar series to satisfy her publisher so she could work on shit she actually enjoys doing) is going to be an inversion of the Good Ally / Trans Inspiration Porn tropes here. No guarantee that he’s going to, but could be.
Also: Rose is totally a condescending shite. Loaded question wording much? There’s a difference between, “Hey, want me to help?” and “Are you sure you don’t want my help?” First is actually helpful, second is passive-aggressive manipulation bullshit, especially if the refusal is followed by “If you’re sure” and a passive-aggressive reiteration that the person offering “help” thinks you’re fucking incompetent. See also: My mother’s favorite playbook. This type of manipulative emotional abuse gets my rage button firing quickly, so I am hoping for Rose’s sake she isn’t actually as bad as she’s made out to be here else I might have a new most-hated character (why, yes, I hate that shit even more than I hate Mary’s Maryiness. Cuz at least Mary is forthright about her bigotry. She’s an odious toad, but an honest odious toad. You know what to expect from her, and that is consistent awfulness. Unlike with this style of manipulative emotional abusers, whose very playbook is to make you unsure of what to expect and even of reality itself. Fuck that type of emotional abuser).
I can’t comment about if Rose is passive aggressive or not (since we barely know her yet), but… does that always come off that way? I’m, like, actually asking, no sarcasm or anything. ;~; Because I’ll often ask if someone’s sure if they want help and don’t at all mean it passive aggressively. I have a ton of friends who WILL NOT ask for help when they need it or tell me what they really want unless I badger then with “Are you sure you don’t need help? ARE YOU SUPER SURE???” If they say no after that, then cool! But I often do need to check multiple times to make absolutely sure, and I often leave it at “okay, if you’re sure!” not as a way to manipulate them, but to leave it open in case they change their mind.
(Hopefully that doesn’t come off as condescending to you? Basically, I guess I’m both surprised by hearing your take on it and now worried that I’m coming off completely the opposite of how I mean to OMG.)
Other’s mileage may vary but my mother was alway terrible about continuing to ask until she got the answer she wanted because obvs I was too incompetent to tell if I needed help at all so someone insisting on helping after I have refused is something which hits my rage button hard.
If you want a good example of what I am talking about, look up Mother Knows Best from tangled…. it isn’t just the are you sure you don’t want help, it is the taking credit for others’ achievements and little sly digs at the person and all the rest – rn I don’t know for sure if Rose is like that but she is showing a couple red flags for it.
I’m ok with twisting problematic tropes. I’m not ok with someone who does not experience that trope irl (in this case, a cisgender ally) trying to twist the trope. It’s patronizing.
Like CJ says, I’m not sure Rose is meant as a shining example of an Ally.
There’s definitely something off about this whole dorm and it’s way too blatant for it not to be intentional.
Possibly that it’s just an over-the-top reversal of the main cast’s floor with no in-world rationale or deeper significance – like McAwesome’s in SP!
I’m not sure that there’s much wrong with the depiction of the trans dude himself per se, I mean he only says one line. The issue I think is Rose’s attitude towards him, which definitely seems patronizing. All in all she doesn’t come off well in this strip.
yeah that’s my thinking as well. unless there’s something else i’m missing, willis has done a mostly good job of portraying problematic characters and interactions as such.
As a straight, white, close to middle aged guy I’m obviously best placed to comment on this so here goes…I take the first part of the strip to be that Rose has helped Zaph before in that he says “Naw, I think I’m good today” suggesting, to me anyway, that there have been days where he hasn’t been good so Rose making the offer under these circumstances isn’t patronizing as when Zaph says no Rose doesn’t push the issue and instead smiles
However I’m completely bewildered as to the last panel, I mean how many days has Billie been there for to Rose to say something like this?
I have no idea how this story line is going to play out but the inhabitants seem really strange to me (but then I’m not american so maybe thats part of it) in that this seems to be an extreme case of hero worship
I get that, Lucy excepted, most of the inhabitants would be considered homely especially when compared to the rest of the main cast but even so the hero worship of Billie seems a bit over the top, to me
Not a frequent reader of comments, so sorry if this has been discussed thoroughly before.
I’m confused about Billie’s cheerleader status and the adulation(?) some are showing towards it. I do get it’s meant to be humorous but I can’t put it into context.
Or is it just so simple that in university “Oh, you were a cheerleader, ok” is the usual attitude and “Oh, you were a cheerleader, that’s sooo coool!!!!” is more rare? A sort of regression to high school years?
My take is that Billie hit a rare pocket of people who find her having been a cheerleader to count for something, and it’s mostly narratively useful because of the contrast to the more typical reception she got in her previous dorm when she discovered that people in the real world don’t care if you were hot stuff in high school.
it’s a very old fashioned attitude about cheerleaders which kinda shows out out of touch we are with how college age people actually are these days
It would show that, if it was being played as “this is the normal proper attitude of reverence to cheerleaders”, rather than “this is a weird thing happening in this weird too nice dorm”.
Before this, the only character to have anything of that attitude was Billie herself and that was shown mostly as her clinging to her lost status.
Also, recall that Forrest Quad in many ways is this universe’s equivalent of McAwesome’s in Shortpacked! (If you’re unfamiliar with it from SP!, it’s basically a ‘Dark Mirror’ reflection of the main cast, but since the main cast of SP! were all jerks, everyone at McAwesome’s was, well, awesome). It sort of serves as a Dark Mirror here, as well – everyone in Read hall ignored the fact that Billie’s a cheerleader, so everyone in Forrest respects it, everyone in Read saw Billie as a psycho stressmonkey, so everyone here sees her as wise and popular.
Men’s showers? These plebians still live in a world of gendered bathrooms? How barbaric.
Prediction:
Billie spends about a week shacked up with Ruth in Reed.
With her gone, Lucy again obtains social recognition. This goes to her head. Shenanigans ensue and climax just as Billie returns.
“Lucy! I’m ho-” *vaudeville hook*
rose
What, what?
Showering without a woman to help you is difficult task for any man.
While showering alone is not a fate I would wish on anyone, I think you’re missing the point.
You jest, but I’ve considered hiring an actual shower buddy. Showering alone is dull and frustrating.
You did find a place for a trans man in the cast! Thank you 🙂
I’ll take people’s word for it that there are places, post high-school, where being a cheerleader is impressive to people who weren’t cheerleaders.
But, man, I really haven’t met any, and for some reason this arc is bending my suspension of disbelief moreso than, uh, a 18-year-old vigilante stabbing a rapist.
It’s weird. In my high school, there were cheerleaders who thought they were hot sh!t, but pretty much nobody else did. Cheerleaders rarely won prom queen even (prom queen was always someone incredibly attractive, but was just as likely to be, for instance, a girl who was soccer team captain and had a popular sketch-comedy podcast; runner up that year did makeup tutorials on YouTube and organized a lot of school fundraisers and the local chapter of Amnesty International).
And post high school, everybody was ready to move on.
Keep in mind that in the Midwest, football is HUGE! IU has an NCAA Division I football team, and Indiana is also home to Notre Dame, also huge for football. So I could see cheerleading being a huge social deal, and even into college where football is big too.
My experience is more like yours, since I went to high school and college in the Northeast. High School football wasn’t that big of a deal (I think our baseball team was better). In college, the football team was division III, while the hockey team was Division I. Being in the Pep Band mattered more than cheerleading.
All I can really say here is “Poor Lucy.”
I hope she says something about this soon, and also that this strange “hero worship” thing everyone’s got going on with Billie ends soon. It’s just…. weird.
Was Rose’s slight tooth gap part of her in SP! ?
I like it here. Makes the cast more interesting when not everyone has the same teeth. Well, except for Dina in attack mode.
This whole arc is shattering my suspension of disbelief more than any of Amazigirl’s reality defying acrobatics. Like the idea that people above the age of 17 are this impressed with someone who isn’t even currently a cheerleader but simply USED to be one in high school is just baffling to me but maybe it’s a result of not being raised in America’s weird sport obsessed culture.
same, I never lived in the USA, so watching Hollywoo movies I never understood why cheerleaders were (are?) such a huge deal
Cheerleaders are not a big deal, at all. My sister was one, I knew several in high school. Some were nice, some were total bongoes, others were somewhere between. I am still trying to figure out where Hollywood got this idea that cheerleaders are these god like figures of high school that must be worshiped. I treated pretty much every one that I knew with casual indifference.
Casual indifference is the best policy
It’s possible it’s supposed to be weird? After all, no one else in the history of this comic has been impressed that Billie was a cheerleader, now suddenly the “opposites” dorm is all impressed and it shatters your disbelief because you think Willis is intending it to be normal?
Never lived in USA either, pretty sure it is supposed to weird that these people have hero worship for Billie for being a cheerleader. Like, unless your biggest dream in life was to be a cheerleader and you were unable to be for some reason, I don’t see why it would be a big deal, but I don’t think it is weird there is less than a handful of people that do think it is either, because people are weird and will admire weird things.
Maybe these girls admired the cheerleaders at their school? Or maybe they’re exaggerating to make her feel welcome.
Zaph’s not a name.
Short for Zaphod Beeblebrox McMillan, son of Zaphod and Trillian from the Hitchhiker novels.
At least, I THINK he’s a son…
What are you, the Name Police? It’s short for Zephaniah.
Or Zephram.
Or Zapf Dingbats 🙂
It’s backwards for Faz. 🙂
Well, Colby Zaph and Andrea Zaph think SlothfulCobra’s not a name, so there you go.
There are characters in this comic named Les Bean and Faz O. Lee.
Just about anything can be a name. Sure, they sound weird when they’re coined, or weird in different cultural contexts, but contexts vary and people get used to them. Case in point, Apple was a weird name, but around 2008 most people didn’t seem to mind it (and the main impression for it was a very sweet girl) and so now it’s ended up as a (rare) name. Uma sounds weird in Japan, where it means ‘horse’ but it’s completely different in other languages where it means ‘one’ or in Sanskrit where it’s another name for Parvati.
My point is – context varies, tastes in names change, etc.
Lucy may already be sick of this; but I’ll bet Billie will get sick of this by the end of the week!
Zaph!!! I’m loving the character development the McAwesome’s crew is getting.
Dina-relevant news
http://www.businessinsider.com/pterosaur-hamipterus-tianshanensis-eggs-china-2017-12
So cool!
Hiss…not a dinosaur…
(still cool tho)
I’m actually impressed by the fact that that article didn’t call them dinosaurs, and in fact specifically referred to them as a separate group the pterosaurs ‘soared over’.
ok
Just WHY is Billie brushing her teeth in the hallway?
To not miss out on the latest developments, duh
Because she understands the importance of furthering the narrative arc.
Billie is such a great ventriloquist. I wonder if she learnt that as a cheerleader.
I note that Zaph is not on Willis’ model sheet for the new gravatars.
(Yes, I’m collecting them all. Why do you ask?)
How long before lucy snaps and tries to murder billie for being “just the best” and is taken away to the loony bin or just runs into the woods to become the animal she always knew she was??
this is zaph’s first appearance but im would die for him
Trans man! Trans man trans man trans man! Happy trans man feels!
^ my reaction
What the actual fuck just happened.
I just want to take Lucy away from this fucking dorm once and forever what the actual fuck
(also, yay for Zaph!)