I’m with this half! Mostly because we don’t like Raidah, though. It was definitely a complicated situation, so maybe it’s not fair to judge her for being mad at Sarah. …But she really was a bongo to Dina, too. So regardless of how mature she seems in interactions with Jacob, she’s immature and petty on the inside, and she definitely doesn’t deserve Jacob.
For me, the intention justifies the means.
Although, if she didn’t have a Plan B in case they had a different reaction besides running to each other’s defense (such as defending themselves, criticizing Becky, getting hurt, etc.), it might have been a bit short-sighted.
Sarah is kind of a goddess, but like one of those secretive super vengeful goddesses that the modern world doesn’t know about but occasionally she haunts people.
Years from now, Secretary of State Sarah picks up her office phone. “You don’t need to worry about the Middle East situation, President Keener. I’ve sent my top negotiator to point out that there’s no reason that the two sides should get along.”
Becky’s been finding ways to manipulate Joyce for a lifetime, and Sarah’s been alternately being supportive, barely-tolerant, and dismissive of Joyce for two months. No contest.
Yes, Joyce, that is exactly what Becky was trying to do, you’ve figured it out. And while we’re on the subject, Sal is genuinely aloof, Dorothy has her life together, and Joe has any idea what he’s talking about.
Like I want to enjoy this but I don’t like how this invasive behavior from Joyce, Becky and Sarah seems to be working out with Jacob. Maybe I’ve been hoping too much for a wake-up call of circumstances.
…will becky be wearing that at work? I dunno why that’s all I’m thinking about, but Galasso *does* have some very oddball rules, so I’m wondering if Becky could actually do it. Not good if she wants that suit clean, though.
Will Galasso care, though? As long as “the lopsided orange one” shows up on time and and does his bidding (delivers orders to the correct tables), he’ll be happy.
Dina could show up for Becky’s shift and he probably wouldn’t notice as long as she wore an orange undercut wig.
HELLO EVERYBODY! IT IS THE RETURN OF MY AWKWARD QUESTION TIME WOOO!
Okay, so, this one is rather simple for one of my awkward questions:
So, you recently discovered you are gay. However, before discovering this, you were attracted to the opposite gender and able to have intercourse and enjoy it.
Where does this place you on the Sexuality spectrum?
My “kneejerk banged it against the desk” response is “Kinsey Scale, an indeterminate region between ‘so strongly oriented that you have no insight into attractiveness of the non compatible gender whatsoever’ and ‘bisexual’.”
Oh no, not me, as I said, this is one of my “Awkward questions”, I ask them to learn more of sexuality from you peeps, since you know more than me.
Y’see, here’s the kicker: I just described Ethan from SP!. Before he discovered himself as Gay, he did find women attractive and had (And Enjoyed) intercourse with them. Example A) Connie. (in his own words [Paraphrasing]: “So I get a promotion AND I get to bang a hot babe?” *Beat panel* *Panel showing Ethan with a smug and pleased look in bed next to Connie*) B) Amber (but not so much)
Oh, Ethan identifies as gay. He was able to get off with Connie that one time, but he is far more attracted to men, both sexually and romantically. You don’t have to be sex-repulsed by women to be gay.
Even if Ethan found he was a 5.8 instead of a 6, it would be totally fine to round himself up to the most accurate identity.
Idunno. If you still like the opposite gender, you are more bisexual than gay. If not, or if you are not attracted enough to pursue opposite gender any more, you are gay. OR… whatever label you want. It is your label to decide. Being self aware of your sexuality means not having to let peer pressure determine who you sex. Not even the glbtiqqa club.
In brightest day, in darkest night
No homophobia will escape my sight
Let those who worship prejudice’s might
Beware the power of the Pan Lantern’s might!
I-
Did people miss this is one of my “Awkward questions”? I do this whenever I get a doubt about sexuality that goes beyond a simple google question. Not about me, it’s simple curiosity.
Dude, not everyone’s seen/knows of your “awkward questions” segment. With the way you phrased the question, it’s perfectly natural for people to assume you’re talking about yourself. And irredentist’s response was a perfectly valid follow up question regardless of whether it applies to you, anyone in general, or a comic character. No need to keep being so snippy about it, y’know?
You have discovered that you are attracted to the same sex, in addition to the opposite sex. I guess that makes two, although the nuances such as how attracted you are to the different characteristics of either one are going to sometimes vary, and may unevenly affect how you choose a partner.
For instance, I’m easily attracted to men, and this became much more apparent to me many years before I found I could probably go all the way with a girl. Strictly speaking, I am bisexual, but practically speaking I am homosexual. This is what the Kinsey scale is for, of course; although I think it fails to cover everything involved in pointing your compass sexual orientation wise.
Hm, Maybe I shouldn’t have phrased it in second person.
Sure, it is useful for hypothetical scenarios but if somebody responds in the same tone it becomes confusing.
Bi/pan/polysexual are definitely possibilities, but it’s also worth noting that heteronormativity can make gay people assume that they’re experiencing het attraction when actually they have friendly feelings for that person. Some signs of that being the case, as opposed to a multisexual orientation, would be: only being attracted to people of the “opposite*” gender after they first express an interest,** choosing people to be attracted to, or getting into m/f relationships because you feel like it’s expected of you rather than because it’s something you want. I guess generally, I would say that if it’s “I feel gay now but I used to like girls/guys so I must have been straight?” then it’s probably heteronormativity at work, but if it’s “I realized I like my gender as well” then that would point towards a bi/pan/queer orientation. As a final note, keep in mind that it’s totally legit to be bi and more/less attracted to one gender than others — for instance, I tend to be into girls more often, but I still like guys and nonaligned nb people. I hope this was helpful and not just super long and over the top, lmao >.<
*my nb trans ass is uncomfortable with this wording but I can't think of a better way to phrase it
**this can also be an aspec thing but I don't want to get too off topic
As another NB person, I also try to steer away from “opposite gender” and the like. When I think about it, it just creates a really weird setup in my opinion, even before you get to the whole “reinforcing the gender binary” thing. I’m in the same boat with not being sure what to replace it with in situations like this, though.
Also, and this is only tangentially related but whatever, one time I was in a queer group and discussing how I’m generally not attracted to people of my own specific NB identity, and someone else in the group was like, “So…would that make you straight?”
Well, bisexuality can be defined as attraction to “similar and other genders” (though I see “same and others” more), so I think if you were trying to be technical and boxy about it, a label that allows for multiple gender attraction like bisexual would probably be more apt. I go with queer, personally.
But it is kind of interesting in general. There’s a character on a show I watch who’s AFAB and NB, and based on what they’ve said so far, they’re only attracted to men. Now, I imagine them defining themself as queer, but that could be my bias. Because of the use of gay as an umbrella term, I could also see them using it kind of casually, but probably not as an identifier. Basically, concepts like gay and straight seem very confusing to me when you’re outside of the gender binary.
Oh, and there are people who identify as NB and gay/lesbian, I just don’t see it for this character. I don’t know any NB people who identify as straight, but I suppose that’s possible as well.
I often use “queer folks” or “queer people” because it sounds subtly friendlier, and clarifies for the speaker what the intention of the word is. I am queer myself, but that’s not always readily apparent in every single conversation I ever have.
Yeah, I’m pretty boxy about stuff, I got a condition, everything has to be into neat little labeled boxes or I get confused. Thing is, Gender/sexuality issues are a big thing, its a spectrum, I can’t just put it into boxes, so I dunno how to act in regards to the whole thing. That is one of the reasons I tend to ask my big “AWKWARD QUESTIONS” and make sure people understand I’m not trying to do “Mocking Rhetorical Questions” but honest (if awkward) curiosity-driven questions.
On the same page, I have a hard tiem internalizing all the different terms because, honestly, I don’t know anyone IRL who cares about or is NB or even LBGT (Comes wiht living in a small town instead of a cosmopolitan city). I do my best to be accepting and stuff but I don’t know anyone like that so I know I’m gonna stuff my foot in my mouth at first contact.
Also I am currently not using the word “Queer” because an LGBT person recently told me it is currently “reclaimed” because a “Radicalized Feminist Group” who “Don’t believe in the existance of Trans People” is currently using the word in an insulting way.
I’m not sure I understand the last paragraph, but generally speaking there’s some push by TERFs against the word queer because it is inclusive of many and marginalized identities. I understand if you as a cishet person don’t feel comfortable using queer to describe multiple people or as a group label. I do think that’s fair. But just know that queer is not a bad word, and if you were referring to me specifically, and talking in reference to how I experience attraction, “queer” is the word I would want you to use and in fact the only one I would fund acceptable.
oh no, my problem was the opposite I think: I was suing “Queer” as a catch-all term for the whole LGBT spectrum because I still haven’t found a word for that, and an LGBT friend of mine told me that as a Cishet I shouldn’t use that word for a while because of the TERFs and I could be confused with a toxic person.
I wasn’t talking so much about what your problem was so much as what your problem is– that is, what you replaced it with. And TERFs, again, largely push for the “queer is a slur and should not be used,” so… people might not like you using it, but because they’d think you’re a TERF or something, you know? That said, I think LGBTQ+ works well enough as an umbrella term. I like queer, but some people specifically don’t identify with the term, so that doesn’t really work.
Sexuality for some people is partly about identity and so that scenario might still be “gay”.
For myself, I would say homoflexible. I’m sort of the reverse, in that I’m into ladies and actively turned off by masculine traits in men, but there ARE men who occasionally catch my eye.
And romantic interest is another thing entirely, for some. (I’m panromantic- what matters is the connection, not the gender or initial sexual attraction.)
As for your examples with SP!Ethan- I don’t know that he was ever attracted to women so much as he wasn’t actively turned off by them, and I feel like for him it was more about closeness and that was what got him going. So I feel like it was never about the fact that his partner was female.
I find it interesting that so many people are going with “bisexual” for the label. I guess it could be an answer to what the question is meant to ask? Like, if it said “you recently discovered you were attracted to the same gender…,” then I’d feel the same–bisexual, pansexual, middle sexuality, what have you. But, if you recently discovered that you’re gay…then you’re gay, you know? So in that way the question is kind of confusing, but if what’s said is what’s meant, then that’s what I’d go with.
As for previous experiences… heteronormativity, man. And I feel like there’s another word specific to sort of feeling (often unconsciously) pressured into hetero stuff, including feeling you have crushes or other romantic feelings and the like. As for enjoying the sex…sex is meant to be enjoyable, you know? It can feel good even with out sexual attraction. I think some people who realize they’re gay later in life have some awareness around repressing something, and some just take feelings they may have for people of another gender and go “Okay, this is what attraction feels like.”
If we’re talking Kinsey scale, I think it’s completely possibly for the person you described to be a 6. It just depends on the person and how they define themselves. (Oh, and of course some people experience their orientation as fluid.)
Most likely somewhere on the multi sexual spectrum (i.e. a sexuality that involves attraction to multiple genders). It would also be appropriate to call yourself Questioning, as you’re uncertain.
This could also be an example of coercive heteronormativity, where you feel obligated to be attracted to your ‘opposite’ binary sex.
My cis-het boyfriend has some covert transphobic feels. He would never, ever be a jerk about it, nor would he ever act against human rights… but secretly he wouldn’t date any transwoman, even if she chose to have surgeries.
I’m a cis-woman, but I don’t like that I’m dating somebody who would only date a cis-woman. And he likes self-improving, because we can always become less phobic humans, and because ghost-penis is not an actual thing.
Does anyone have any resources to help him get transphobic cobwebs out of his head? He already has openly trans* and NB friends, but we doubt they’d like to know about his hangup.
Oh, now this is more awkwards than what I asked, thus I have Awkward answers from someone who isn’t properly educated.
On one hand, I understand what you say, like, you shouldn’t differentiate a cis-woman and a trans-woman.
on the other hand, I see “Try to get someone to feel attracted to an identity they aren’t attracted to” and I think “Isn’t that one of the things that is bad?”
So my final veredict:I’m confused and I don’t get this. Need less contradictory info.
The issue, I think, is that not being attracted to a woman on the basis of her being trans is rooted in transphobia. You don’t have to be attracted to anyone, but it’s beneficial to look at why you’re not attracted to generalized groups of people of the gender(s) you’re attracted to. It’s not like Leorale is trying to get her partner to date a trans woman, but to address these deeply internalized ideas that may exist around gender, sex, and identity.
I would say, let your bf manage his own sexuality in his own time.
As a pretty-much-entirely asexual person myself, I know I wouldn’t want to have sex with a transwoman *or* a ciswoman *or* men or NB people or whomever. It’s an entirely physical, visceral orientation that has nothing to do with choices or beliefs. Like, if I could choose to be attracted to somebody I would, you know?
Some people are just attracted to men (straight ladies and gay men). Some are just attracted to women (straight men and lesbian women). Some are attracted to several varieties but not all, some are attracted to all types, and some to only one person ever in their entire life.
Your boyfriend isn’t transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a bodily category of person, any more than I’m misanthropic for not wanting to have sex with anyone. Lesbians aren’t man-haters, gay men aren’t misogynists, and so on. Who you want to touch your body is deeply personal and can’t be dictated by anyone else, nor can it often be something one chooses or changes–not even when the other person checks all the right boxes on paper.
So, by all means, call him out if he says transphobic things, and encourage him to read things written by transgender writers. Just do it knowing that the person who gets to decide who your boyfriend experiences sex with is your boyfriend (and his sex partner, ofc). His body belongs to himself alone.
Actually, while generally the Kinsey Scale is a effect measure for ones sexuality , there are many places in which it fall short. One of these is the change in sexual orientation over time. While you aren’t likely to go from a 0 to a 6 it is possible to change by one or two on the scale. Many other measures of sexuality have been built with this in mind and include sections for current and past sexual orientation.
Let me follow the above information with this; I acquired all this information from doing a research paper in school. I have no personal experience with this and if your personal experience dissageees with this information then I defer to that as first hand accounts generally trump Wikipedia.
Sex, when done properly is an enjoyable experience. If you’ve never had truly fulfilling sex before it’s possible to think that what you’re having is the same thing everyone else is and assume you’re satisfied.
That’s the situation SP!Ethan was in, he’d had sex with women, he thought it was satisfying but not that big a deal, right up until he got a taste of action with a guy and things were given perspective at which point he realised what being actually into your partner felt like. Ethan himself states that all the times he’s been with women in the past were mistakes.
I…honestly believe they would genuinely be a good couple, who would challenge one another, while still being respectful of boundaries and one anothers’ traditions. And if not a couple, they’ll at least be good friends because they can, again, /challenge/ one another.
It absolutely is for Jacob and Raidah to mutually and individually decide if they want to be in a relationship. And, as you say, it is not for Becky or Sarah to decide whether or not Jacob and Raidah should be in a relationship.
But neither is it their responsibility to encourage Jacob to remain in a relationship with Raidah. What’s between him and Raidah is between him and Raidah, and it is not anyone else’s job to police that private relationship.
If it turns out, in the end, that their relationship can be broken up, isn’t it better off for both of them that they find out now, during the dating stage?
If a relationship can be broken up (or even if it is unlikely to last in the long term), that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better that the relationship end early rather than running its course on its own. Even if Jacob leaves Raidah for Joyce, there’s no guarantee that he’ll be better off.
Like, what they’re doing so far isn’t terrible. It’s basically just pushing Joyce and Jacob together in a way where it might happen naturally.
If they were being more aggressive about it, it would be kinda shitty of them. Especially since it’s possible for everyone to lose if it goes bad. Especially if Jacob ever learns about their plans, or that Sarah wanted to break them up just to hurt Raidah. Then everyone would end up sad and nobody would be smooching anyone.
I think I entirely agree with you, and maybe the abstract part of my brain was getting too much control of me?
My parents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary, but also my mom told me the story of how she was ditched by a beau she thought she was going to marry; and painful as that must have been for her, five years after that she literally married the love of her life.
I do think it is shitty of Sarah to want to break up Jacob and Raidah just because of her animus toward Raidah, without caring what’s best for Jacob; and I do think it is at best misguided and at worst shitty of Joyce to want to abet that breakup solely on account of her loyalty toward Sarah (as far as she is consciously aware).
And if you-know-who hasn’t already written your last paragraph into being because the drama and because he has to live up to his moniker, he’s probably going, “hmm…” right now.
Any relationship can be broken up if there are outside forces trying to sabotage it. No relationship has the guarantee of lasting forever. However, that’s still not okay for someone outside the relationship to decide when it’s run its course, especially in this case where it’s clearly not that they have Jacob’s best interests at heart but rather their own desires.
The ONE caveat I’ll make is when there’s domestic abuse involved. Even if someone is truly, utterly unhappy in the relationship otherwise, the best thing you can do is to encourage them to end it.
Welp, one the one hand, I don’t want Jacob to break up with Raidah, because that would be horrible, but on the other hand I really like Joyce and Jacob’s chemistry and kinda ship them. So I guess what I’m trying to say is Damn You, Willis!
Also, clever Becky, casually steering that ship with neither one noticing…
Do you not want Jacob to break up with Raidah on principle? (A fair position, one I favor) Or because you genuinely like her character? Because hitherto she’s been nothing less than an incorrigible shitheel.
I agree she condescended to Dina, and overdoes her hatred of Sarah, but with Jacob, I like her self-confidence, good communication, and lack of jealousy.
She’s got some virtues, I’ll concede that. Doesn’t change the fact the only reason she’s not as bad as Mary is she takes off the edge with materialism and (probably) a fair bit of ganja.
There’s also that Raidah isn’t a bigot who bullies or (intentionally) insults people for minor annoyances. Her treatment of Sarah was awful, but so was Sarah’s treatment of her, and while Sarah is still seeking Revenge, Raidah seems to have called a truce (even despite being punched in the face), and now seems to just avoid Sarah.
Like, I’m not terribly fond of her, but I have to respect her for that.
Though the reason I don’t like the idea of people actively hoping to break her and Jacob up is that Jacob seems to be very happy with their relationship. In particular, I think what bugs me is how it doesn’t even seem to be a concern for any of them.
Like, if they were at least seem to have some misgivings about trying to break up a happy relationship, it might not bug me, even if they still went ahead with it
No Raidah started that poor treatment. I went and did a reread recently and had totally forgotten how abjectly AWFUL Raidah is to Sarah. seeks her out to trash her thoroughly, really really nasty stuff- at that point the worst Sarah had done was call parents on a roommate spiralling into depression and serious substance abuse, visible to no-one else.
I think that ‘truce’ was the RESULT of getting punched- tormenting Sarah was no longer low-cost. She can no longer expect Sarah to just take it. That’s not to excuse the assault, Sarah really shoulda kept a lid on her shit, even when she had been keeping that lid on for MONTHS of abuse, and blew that lid ONLY when someone else started copping that shit too.
but they aren’t reely comparable in awfulness
Oh yeah, so far we have NOT seen her full character by a long shot. We’ve seen her primarily through the lens of Sarah- and remember that Raidah actively believes that Sarah screwed over their mutual friend because she just couldn’t be bothered with her grieving for her mother. Raidah can’t see the shades of grey in the situation, which is hardly surprising and doesn’t make her a bad person. Does it excuse the bullying? Hell no- although it’s also unclear how much of that is active, and how much passive- but it DOES explain it.
As for Dina, yeah, she was clumsy about perceived mental health. That’s not a new trait in the world. She did come across as well-meaning in her idiocy though, not malicious, so she likely was reacting to Dina as she had been taught to- which is actually probably a common reaction.
So yeah, I’m still waiting to see more of who Raidah actually is, because I highly doubt her character is “shitheel”. Quite apart from anything else, Willis’ history of character writing suggests that she’s far more complex than that.
Unless I also missed something that wasn’t “Raidah’s parent dying”, but “Raidah thinking Sarah couldn’t be bothered with Dana grieving over her mother dying”.
It’s a little bit of both. While there are definitely aspects of her I don’t like (her unwillingness to hear Sarah’s side of the Dana incident, and condescension to Dina being the big ones), I don’t think she’s necessarily a bad person, just an immature one. What we’ve seen of her relationship with Jacob has struck me as healthy (admittedly, I have no personal experience with romantic relationships, so am going off what I’ve observed of others), and as much as I really like Joyce and Jacob’s chemistry, I think it would be a dick move for Jacob to just dump Raidah in favor of Joyce.
Past page so probably nobody will see this, but I disagree. A person being in a relationship isn’t a commitment to “forever no matter what”. (Thankfully) marriage isn’t even that commitment now. If he realises after only a few weeks that he would be happier with someone else, breaking the existing relationship isn’t a dick move at all. And at this point, without a bond built over extended time, if he met someone else he would prefer to be with he would likely compare Raidah to her, which is unfair on them both.
Why? She has some admirable traits; but she also has some contemptible traits. (Not irredeemable ones. It’s called “Dumbing of Age” for a reason.)
I am in particular thinking of her condescension towards Dina, which is (as far as we know) something that only Dina and Sarah have witnessed. If and (quite possibly) when Jacob ever hears Dina’s side of the story, that’s going to give him pause. And maybe Jacob finds out more about the Dana issue than what he has heard from Raidah? That’s going to give him pause too.
tl:dr: a dating relationship is not in any way, shape, or form equivalent to marriage. There are non-married relationships that are equivalent to marriage, but for now Jacob and Raidah are not in one of those.
My opinion is A little complicated on this one. If Sarah was trying to break up Jacob and Raidah so she could get Jacob, then I’d probably side that Sarah is in the wrong. However, I’m pretty sure by now that Sarah has realized that Jacob isn’t looking for casual sex, which is what Sarah wants.
Instead, what Sarah is trying to do is get Raidah dumped. It isn’t that she wants Jacob for herself, she just doesn’t believe Raidah deserves him. And looking at things from her perspective it’s kinda easy to see why. Sarah has been kicked around by Raidah and her other friends because she blew the whistle and Dana’s alomost suicidal drug use. And I can say from personal experience that being ostracized by your peers is really painful, especially if you’re in the right.
So in closure, since Sarah is trying to keep Raidah from getting something she feels Raidah doesn’t deserve, I’m going with Sarah is justified in this.
Becky, as far as I can tell, is trying to get Joyce with Jacob because their a good match, which is morally questionable as I don’t believe she knows Sarah and Raidah’s history. She isn’t doing this to correct any sort of injustice in the world, she’s doing it cause her gurl would totes be better for him, and that’s just wrong.
(Wrong morally, from a bystanders point of view I totally agree but still, you shouldn’t try to ruin a happy relationship for personal happiness)
The thing is- Jacob isn’t an object. It’d be one thing if Sarah was trying to keep Raidah from getting a new pair of shoes or a jacket. After all, those are material objects, and they’re not going to be affected one way or another. Jacob is a person, with thoughts and feelings and more importantly, agency. Treating him as some sort of “prize” or “toy” to take away from Raidah is wrong, no matter how Raidah treated Sarah.
Sarah is justified in thinking Raidah does not deserve Jacob.
Sarah is not justified in trying to ruin Raidah’s relationship with Jacob.
Becky is a goddess of guile, and it always seems to work so handily (as seen here, or with hijacking Robin’s phone). I love it, but it makes me appreciate even more that her relationship with Dina has been requiring her to be more upfront about her intentions.
I’m sorry that I ever doubted you Becky! I thought you were just being a jerk, but that plan was pulled off flawlessly! That was Mike levels of manipulation, truly impressive.
I don’t know if everyone except Joyce and Jacob are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons–either way I don’t like it.
Frankly, I’d much rather be played for my own benefit by Becky and learn it than remain without first-hand experience when a less benevolent manipulator comes along.
My wild guess completely unsupported by canon is, it is a coping technique with being rejected by Joyce. In the way of “if I pair her off with somebody else, my feelings and my hurt for her will certainly go away. I just want her to be happy. This definitely works. It works, right? …right?”
Yeah, I second that. As a general rule of mine, if somone punches you twice, they are not your friend.
(This is, actually, a literal rule of mine. When I was young, I had trouble telling “friendly riffing” and playful roughhousing from actual ridicule or violence. As a response, I would often do nothing at the first infraction, but strike back swiftly at the second.)
“..and do you know, Joyce doesn’t eat stuff that eat other stuff.”
“KNOCK IT OFF! You have told the same joke for 25 years!!!”
“So, then you are OK with things touching at the wedding buffé?”
“…that means bad luck on weddings.”
“Whatever. HEY, YOU IN THE BACK, DID YOU KNOW THAT I AM A LESBIAN????”
One one hand, I get what Becky was doing was probably to push them together. That’s certainly a grey at best area, which I say even not liking Raidah.
On the other hand, it also had the benefit of getting them past their disrespect towards each other’s religious beliefs, which is basically a good thing period.
I really like Joyce and Jacob together, and Jacob gave the impression that he’s with Raidah more because she’s the kind of woman he wants to be with than because she’s the woman he wants to be with. (Couple pages back, and his comments on Joyce dating Ethan.) Abd if they broke up I feel like Jacob and Raidah might both be mature enough to handle it fine.
However, one thing that might be a sliiiight issue is if he falls for Joyce, and then finds out she was trying to break up him and Raidah. I’m guessing her innocence is appealing to him- she’s not trying to seduce him or tempt him, she actually thinks she’s trying to get him with Sarah. So finding that out, I’m guessing, would hugely hurt Jacob if he developed real and long lasting feelings for Joyce.
Possible- I didn’t read it that way but I can see it. There’s a lot of conjecture at this stage with regards to Jacob and Raidah, both as characters and as a couple. (Her more so than him, we’ve seen a lot more of him and in a more neutral light.) Really, at this point the main thing to do is wait for more on them- but discussion is fun in the mean time. 😀
I’m sorry but, to me, ‘Raidah’, ‘mature’ and ‘handle it fine’ really don’t belong in the same sentence. If anything, Becky is basically inviting Raidah to turn her venom from Sarah to Joyce.
I commented about this above but I can absolutely see why Raidah has a lot of venom for Sarah. Her perspective is that Sarah completely screwed over her close friend because Sarah couldn’t be bothered to deal with Dana’s grief over her mother passing. Now, we know there’s a lot more to that story- but that’s Raidah’s perspective, and with that in mind, is it really a surprise she’s so resentful to Sarah?
So my question for the evening:
I’m pretty into webcomics. I don’t follow as many as some, but I really like the ones I do. I’m wondering from those who have gotten other people in their lives interested in webcomics, what do you feel helped, either in what you did or just what about the other person made them more able to get into the genre?
I’ve tried to share this and other webcomics with friends of mine, but generally they don’t seem interested. Which is fine, I just find it both kind of interesting in itself and unique to webcomics as a genre.
I have no help on this, but I am genuinely interested in the responses as well, because me getting people excited for something works about as well as me getting people excited for bricks.
I’ve had some success, but with different approaches. With some people, just linking to a particularly interesting page will get them to check out some more, get them hooked if they are into what they have seen so far, and then binge it.
With others, that approach doesn’t work, but what have worked is just using comics I think they might be interested in as examples when we discuss examples of tropes or archetypes in fiction, adding some extra details if they show interest for the quoted example.
Of course, it’s also not an either/or situation. Someone can be mostly interested in plot, tropes and characters but still be won over by being shown some good or interesting artwork, for example.
However, in any case, what’s worked for me is showing others (either by linking or describing, depending on the person) a bit of the comic, and then allowing them to try it out at their own pace.
With my husband, well-written LGBT characters seems to do the trick. He reads way more webcomics now than before we met.
Otherwise, I would go with common interests, and accepting that some people simply won’t enjoy that method of storytelling. Sadly it’s still often seen as a “waste of time” compared to books, films etc.
I reference my webcomics a LOT. treat them like memes. HAY this panel is relevant to the topic of conversation just now! Do that a buncha times and wait for ‘what’s that thing you post pics from all the time’ or ‘HEY I READ THAT THING YOU POST FROM ALL THE TIME IT’S GUD’
SMBC is really good for that apporach cos SWEAR there’s an SMBC for everything
Yumi, reading your question instantly prompted a memory of me, as a ten-year-old, rushing out on a Sunday morning, scooping up the Sunday newspaper, tearing off the rubber bands, and turning to the comics section.
I can’t tell you why I have always loved comics, any more than I can tell anyone why I love the sound of the cello or the taste of fresh apricots.
In my final round of college — I entered at 18, dropped out and re-entered several times, got my B.A. at 32 — anyway, the round of college that stuck for me, I was a music major. And it happened time and time again that friends and acquaintances of mine would give their senior recital — the culmination of your life as an undergrad music major — and, to quote one of them: “The people I expected to show up, didn’t, and the people who showed up, I didn’t expect.”
We gravitate towards people who share our tastes; that’s a normal human tendency. I know someone who married a woman he met at a Renaissance Faire, but I also know couples who, when one of them goes to the RenFaire, the other one finds something else to do that weekend.
When I have the chance to introduce someone I know to something I think they might like, I do so. But I do so knowing that their response to this new-to-them thing is not necessarily going to be the same as mine.
(But if anyone here is going to dispute the genius of Don Martin or Basil Wolverton, they are going to have to fight me to the pain.)
I love webcomics and use them as memes. Have always loved comics but the freedom that comic artists have on the web has made them tremendously better. I remember back in the ’60’s when Charles Schultz was sometimes controversial and wonder what drafts burned in his house last week that the syndicate wouldn’t touch.
Cartoons have also gotten immeasurably better and more meaningful. Think Steven Universe, MLP, Inside Out, UP, Toy Story.
Marsh, the couples you know that do separate things when one goes to RenFaire? It may be a happy arrangement, or… it may not.
I will send some individual webcomics to my wife, which she enjoys enough, but she isn’t going to go read them daily, or archive binge.
However, she’s not really an internet-based-entertainment omnivore. I do find that she responds to the freedom to be long-form, or weirder-than-newsprint (and she and I each grew up during the printed newspaper era).
Thanks for the responses. As I think back on my own experiences, I’ve found giving people hard copies of webcomics to be the most effective, but that gets expensive and also, in my opinion, takes away some of the experience of webcomics. But mostly the money thing.
Given how badly her last attempt blew up in the two principals’ faces, I wouldn’t use Becky’s services. Of course, it’s likely that she doesn’t know that Leslie and Mindy crashed and burned, isn’t it?
Manipulative, yes. Cold? I don’t think so. She loves Joyce- hopefully her feelings have shifted to being a more platonic love- and I’m guessing seeing how they are together has had an impact.
Unless she’s just doing it because Sarah wants to get at Raidah, but I doubt that. Becky’s too… genuine for that, I think.
Its cold because, unless shes unaware, shes actively trying to get Jacob and Joyce together which means she wants to break up a perfectly good relationship (Jacob and Raidah)
Also remembering it was Jacob that invited them to his church because hes a good person and because of that hes getting manipulated by Becky into becoming closer with Joyce
Its cold and uncaring and hopefully Becky realises soon that what shes doing is is really mean and grows out of it
Jacob in the past lamented that people see him in a certain way, Becky is dehumanizing him just as much here by not taking into account his feelings
I always cringe when someone mentions the “perfectly good relationship” between Jacob and Raidah.
We haven’t seen enough of it to know if it’s good or not, can’t tell if Raidah’s acting manipulative or not – the scene with die party at Joyce’s and Sarah’s suggests that she does – and it has been all of three weeks long up to now.
If Jacob finds he likes Joyce more an decides to end his budding relationship with Raidah that’s totally his affaire.
If other people ship him with Joyce and provide large pointers one way or another, that’s a bit, well teenish, but then, they are teens.
And, actually, why should Becky care about Raidah? The only thing she knows about her is she behaved abominable towards Sarah.
Fine we don’t know its good other than what Jacob says and yes if he likes Joyce better then its his decision but Becky here is actively seeking a break up and why should Becky care about Raidah, well why should anyone care about anyone else they hardly know except for that thing about treating others as you’d like to be treated
I still wouldn’t call Becky’s behaviour “cold”, personally. You absolutely have the right to think it unpleasant and not okay, but I still believe it comes at least somewhat from a place of caring and warmth for Joyce.
I don’t like the way Jacob’s feelings and thoughts are being treated as irrelevant either, but I still do believe Becky is at least somewhat acting out of love for her friend.
You say “manipulative,” I say persuasive. And whatever you call it, it’s not inherently cold.
Parents manipulate their children all the time, and by “manipulate” I mean “teach.” Friends manipulate their friends all the time, and by “manipulate” I mean “try to persuade them that they should not do that stupid thing that they seem intent on doing.”
Whatever Becky is doing, it’s not because she thinks she’s going to get some personal benefit from it. Other than perhaps her best friend becomes happier, and that in turn makes her happier.
If Beckys end game comes to pass then Jacob and Joyce will be together, for that to happen Jacob and Raidah have to break up, Becky is trying to facilitate that
Even though she recieves no material benefit you don’t think its cold of het to try to break up a relationship?
Jacob and Raidah are dating. It’s that simple. They are dating. They’ve been dating for maybe a month? Being in a dating-for-one-month relationship is not the same as being in an I-love-you-forever relationship.
Jacob and Raidah are not in any kind of relationship where either one of them has publicly announced, “Back off! This one’s mine.” They’re dating. Maybe it will be forever, maybe it will go down in flames, who knows? But at this point, only Jacob and Raidah know if it’s more than just dating. We certainly don’t. And neither do Joyce and Becky.
They may only be dating, but that still doesn’t negate what Becky’s doing. No matter how strong their relationship is, Becky has no right to meddle in it and break it up just because she feels like Jacob would be better off with Joyce.
So what Becky’s doing here is pretty cold and manipulative, albeit well intentioned. She wants to do what’s best for Joyce, but if she succeeds she’s going to probably end up hurting Joyce, Jacob and Raidah, and she probably has an inkling of what’s going to happen. She knows Jacob and Raidah are in a relationship and are perfectly fine with each other(at least according to Jacob), she knows that Joyce would never willingly go along with her plan, but she still does it.
I don’t agree. They’re dating. They’re a couple. Just because they haven’t passed whatever arbitrary limit you think they need to doesn’t mean breaking them up is cool.
Maybe they’re still in the “We’ve been on a couple dates, but it’s not actually a relationship and we’re both still playing the field” stage, but I don’t think so. They behave like a couple.
I know I would have been pretty damn upset if I’d found someone trying to break up one of my college relationships a month in. Even if they didn’t turn out to be “forever”.
WAS IT COLLIDING WITH ANOTHER NEUTRON STAR TO PRODUCE THE ONLY EVENT YET OBSERVED AS A GRAVITATIONAL WAVE SOURCE WITH AN OPTICAL COUNTERPART?!!?!??!?!!?!
Everybody makes choices. Remaining faithful and committed is a choice two people make every day from within the relationship. If a person within a relationship chooses to break up with someone, that is the choice of the breaker-upper. If a person chooses to cheat on someone, that is the choice of the cheater.
At the end of the day, people don’t own people, and breaking up with someone in order to date someone else isn’t morally wrong. It is always painful to be broken up with, but in my experience, even mutual break-ups–heck, even initiating a break-up when it’s vital to one’s mental health!–can be emotionally devastating. This is one of my favorite advice columnist letters, where the writer explains how she took DTMFA advice, and logically she knows she did the right thing, but emotionally and physically she is wrecked: http://rolereboot.org/sex-and-relationships/details/2017-09-dear-dana-break-someone-move/
The pain of heartache doesn’t mean the breaker-upper did the wrong thing; it just means that often, people need to do what’s best for themselves, and that pain happens.
Which brings me to Joyce-Jacob shipping.
I’m ambivalent about this ship in general. But, here’s the thing: I cannot foresee Jacob cheating on Raidah with Joyce (something that would be actually wrong, as it’d be a breach of trust). Nor could I see Joyce being okay with doing romantic things behind Raidah’s back, cultivating an affair. While clearly che has a crush on Jacob, all of her conversation has been pretty natural rather than flirtatious.
If this ship sails, it’ll be because Jacob freely chooses to pursue a romance with Joyce after choosing to break up with Raidah. Becky gave him a conversational shove, and Sarah helped Joyce dress nicely, of course, but he’s completely free to ignore those things. If his relationship with Raidah is fulfilling, he will. If it’s lacking, he’ll break up with her.
All of which to say, Becky is rad and has done no wrong so far.
I found Stella’s description a fine rounding up of why I don’t see a problem with what Becky did here, but if it convinces you otherwise, I’m curious how this can be.
What you’re saying is all well and good but its that Becky is actively seeking to create a situation that otherwise wouldn’t likely exist is the problem, shes created doubt in Jacobs mind that otherwise mightn’t exist
Just because you wouldn’t give into temptations doesn’t mean the person doing the tempting isn’t being any less wrong though.
If say, one of your friends asked you to help them traffick something in exchange for some money that you could use (just going to an extreme example here), and you said no, it doesn’t mean that the person who made the offer in the first place isn’t doing anything wrong just because you resisted it.
Sarah and Becky haven’t done anything so bad as to encourage Jacob to cheat. But Sarah dressed Joyce not because she wanted her to look nice, but with the express intent of making Jacob get wandereyes and break up with Raidah. That’s wrong no matter which way you slice it, no matter what his reaction.
If Jacob breaks up with Raidah for Joyce on his own terms, then that’s okay.
If Jacob breaks up with Raidah for Joyce because he’s being subtly manipulated by no less than three women who do not care about his input in any of this but rather want to “get back” at his girlfriend, that’s super shitty.
Sarah: get back at Raidah
Joyce: shipping Sarah/Jacob, along with her own suppressed hormones.
Becky: make Joyce happy
Billie: matchmaking Joyce/Jacob. Showing off role as alpha bongo.
The key problem with this situation is that this does not just involve Jacob, Raidah and Joyce. There is a an extra party in the form of Sarah and Billie. They are more interested in getting back at Raidah than in Joyce’s and Jacob’s happiness and that’s the shitty part of this situation. Aiming to wreck a relationship out of spite is a shitty thing to do and that’s that.
I don’t think Billie’s really out to get Raidah, but just enjoys playing matchmaker for her friends. Getting that tower of a man for Joyce is enough motivation for her.
Well she seems to know that Jacob is Raidah’s boyfriend so it’s still a tiny bit of a dick move. But yeah, she is actually less to blame than Sarah and Joyce herself who was perfectly fine with breaking up that relationship.
I shpuld 100% be asleep, but instead I just went back and reread the strips with Becky coming out to Joyce and all that, because I guess I’d rather be in pain.
Jacob’s too loyal. He’s going to stick with Raidah because she’s his girlfriend even if he’s much more into Joyce and realizes that, because Raidah’s his girlfriend.
Seriously, if the anti-Jacob/Raidah (we need a name for that ship) in-universe crowd really want to get their love-sabotaging manipulation game on (and ignore all the ethical quagmire of doing so), the weak link to target is Raidah.
Get her jealous. Get her judgy. Provoke her to outbursts that disgust Jacob. Find ways to get her disgusted by Jacob. Lots of options. She’s the one prone to harshly severing a relationship, so if you’re out to sabotage the relationship, Raidah being the one to call it off is your endgame.
That’s the thing: Raidah is just paranoid enough that I could see her sabotaging their relationship due to Jacob having a close friendship with “Sarah’s roomie”.
Though honestly, I find that a lot more problematic than just setting Joyce up as a potentially more attractive option. Most of the manipulation tried hasn’t been that kind of nasty. Becky’s done a few bits to tear down Raidah, but most of the rest has just been playing Joyce up.
If anyone tried to manipulate Raidah in distrusting Jacob or even telling Jacobs basicly true but slightly screwed tales about Raidah’s behavior towards other, I would totally agree that that was wrong behavior. But this is not what’s happening here.
Beck is giving Joyce and Jacob both a slight push so they’ll find themselves agreeing after the problematic event of Joyce freaking out on Jacobs church, what’s the problem?
Don’t you think anyone should have feelings for a person in a relationship with another? All relationships should be held sacred and no one should ever think about creating opportunities for seeing another person in a favorable light?
Having a crush, being attracted or falling in love with someone is not a decision. What you do with those feelings is, and I get the impression, anyone creating opportunity for those emotions is already a bad person in your eyes. why?
As I said, I’d find the nasty stuff much worse. People generally can’t help what feelings they have, but Sarah and Joyce (and apparently Becky) have deliberately set themselves to break up Jacob and Raidah. This isn’t just Joyce deciding she likes hanging out with Jacob so she makes opportunities to do so. Even with a crush on him, that can be perfectly innocent, though I’ve seen it lead to disaster.
This is a deliberate, intentional attempt to break up an apparently happy couple for reasons of their own – Sarah to deny him to Raidah, Joyce because she wants to help her friend with her crush. Becky’s motives haven’t been explicitly stated, so they could still be more benign.
Jacob’s knowledge of Joyce extends beyond just today’s interactions. Heck, I assume it’s because of that previous knowledge that he was able to put up with some of today’s interactions.
As for phone/knife storage, there is one obvious answer, though I can’t really see Joyce going for it…
Yep. Sarah has an incredible number of Joyce stories, for people who’ve known each other for ~2 months.
Sarah has told many of them to Jacob, and fairly accurately (from what we know), but they’re humorous nonetheless, and it’s the only way Sarah actually get tongue-untied around him.
Considering that her only “manipulation” has been goading two people who already like each other into defending one another’s lifestyles, I’m inclined to guess the latter over the former.
So, like always, we’re all presented with the same scene and there are a lot of different interpretations of whats just transpired over the last couple of strips
I think what Becky has done is unfeeling and manipulative but its not deliberate, it comes from a place of wanting to do good by Joyce but I don’t think shes thought through the ramifications of it all
I don’t think Jacob will appreciate that his feelings were ignored and that he was played and I think Joyce would be horrified to know she was, potentially, “the other women”
But hopefully everyone will be a little wiser, and a little less flippant, about the whole experience
Yeah, but it’s a relationship with the ENEMY. ;p Sarah is part of her family unit now, so she’s probably on board with tactical strikes on Raidah’s life in general.
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o3o go becky, go becky
I mean the other half of me is like, no becky, no becky, that’s manipulative, it’s not your birthday
I’m with that half.
HAAAAAAHHHH XDDD I LOVE THE SONG
Is that a Filthy Frank reference?
I’m with this half! Mostly because we don’t like Raidah, though. It was definitely a complicated situation, so maybe it’s not fair to judge her for being mad at Sarah. …But she really was a bongo to Dina, too. So regardless of how mature she seems in interactions with Jacob, she’s immature and petty on the inside, and she definitely doesn’t deserve Jacob.
For me, the intention justifies the means.
Although, if she didn’t have a Plan B in case they had a different reaction besides running to each other’s defense (such as defending themselves, criticizing Becky, getting hurt, etc.), it might have been a bit short-sighted.
Becky means they GOT served
Becky is doing
God’sSarah’s workOh, they GOT served, all right.
By Becky.
‘Cause SHE’S the one serving.
Lunch.
Am I the only person who had forgotten she had that job until just now?
I forgot, too
FOOLS! NOBODY FORGETS GALASSO!
Absolutely just you, mhm. <.<
It’s fine as long as *she* doesn’t forget.
I double checked your comment for a pun, just so you know.
If every one of my comments had a pun, it wouldn’t keep people guessing.
Sarah is kind of a goddess, but like one of those secretive super vengeful goddesses that the modern world doesn’t know about but occasionally she haunts people.
This is canon:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/oldtestament/
I knew there was a reason I like Sarah.
This isn’t canon; it’s gospel
Old Testament God’s work!
You know that Becky works at a pizza place because they just got TOPPED!
…. and subs somewhere in there?
Yeah, under the tops.
Becky’s either just being jealous about Joyce having friends again, or she’s way smarter than she looks
The latter. She’s working for Sarah remember?
idk about you, but she’s looking pretty smart right now.
So if she’s even smarter than that, she’s really dang smart. (which she is)
Of course she’s looking smart, she’s wearin’ her butchest duds! Suits and ties are wasted on the masculine after all.
This here masculine says you can have ’em.
Let the awkwardness commence!
Clever girl.
This is one of the benefits of being Dina’s girlfriend.
Becky: Intuitive reverse psychologist
Bonkers is putting it mildly.
Damn that’s some skill on Becky’s end.
Jacob and Joyce, you poor, naïve kids.
Becky had better hope Sarah doesn’t get wind of her scheming.
Sarah put her up to it
Exactly. Sarah might come out of this thinking that sending Becky on missions of manipulation is a good thing.
As far as I know, she’s never talked to Sarah about this. Could have been off screen or I could just have forgotten.
I think she’s just backing up Joyce.
Not that Sarah will object, of course.
Years from now, Secretary of State Sarah picks up her office phone. “You don’t need to worry about the Middle East situation, President Keener. I’ve sent my top negotiator to point out that there’s no reason that the two sides should get along.”
…becky you brilliant lady, have you and dina been reading psychology textbooks?
More like ygolohcysp skoobtxet.
Becky has spent her entire life learning how to push Joyce’s buttons. Like a textbook could teach her any more.
Becky has also spent her entire life navigating Toedad. Abusive households can often produce kids who have HONED mindreading abilities
Dang Becky, that’s some smooth work.
Okay,seriously, are we missing panels here? Are we just seeing choice cuts of the conversation?
Look, having to create a punchline every day is going to do weird things to micropacing and you kind of have to accept that.
Yes, thank you. Sometimes there are mini time jumps.
I also feel there’s dialogue missing
Becky’s better at this than Sarah, I didn’t expect that.
Becky’s better at this than Mike. That should be a good thing, and yet I find myself frightened somehow.
Becky’s been finding ways to manipulate Joyce for a lifetime, and Sarah’s been alternately being supportive, barely-tolerant, and dismissive of Joyce for two months. No contest.
Yeah, but she’s playing Jacob to and she’s known him like 5 minutes.
Becky’s been manipulating everyone she’s met to some degree her entire life, making them react how she wants, making them see her how she wants.
Sarah spends too much time being angry to be an effective manipulator.
Yes, Joyce, that is exactly what Becky was trying to do, you’ve figured it out. And while we’re on the subject, Sal is genuinely aloof, Dorothy has her life together, and Joe has any idea what he’s talking about.
….. hm.
…Sure, that was definitely her goal.
Like I want to enjoy this but I don’t like how this invasive behavior from Joyce, Becky and Sarah seems to be working out with Jacob. Maybe I’ve been hoping too much for a wake-up call of circumstances.
Yeah. Everything about this is just unpleasant. The wakeup call will certainly come…and it’s going to be worse when it does for being delayed, here.
Panel 4 is Becky dropping the mic. And neither Joyce nor Jacob have a clue that that is what just happened.
…will becky be wearing that at work? I dunno why that’s all I’m thinking about, but Galasso *does* have some very oddball rules, so I’m wondering if Becky could actually do it. Not good if she wants that suit clean, though.
Will Galasso care, though? As long as “the lopsided orange one” shows up on time and and does his bidding (delivers orders to the correct tables), he’ll be happy.
Dina could show up for Becky’s shift and he probably wouldn’t notice as long as she wore an orange undercut wig.
Yes. Backfired.
Yikes. A COMPETENT romantic busy-body is SCARY.
Jesus they just got played harder than a slot machine at a Gamblers Anonymous meeting.
HELLO EVERYBODY! IT IS THE RETURN OF MY AWKWARD QUESTION TIME WOOO!
Okay, so, this one is rather simple for one of my awkward questions:
So, you recently discovered you are gay. However, before discovering this, you were attracted to the opposite gender and able to have intercourse and enjoy it.
Where does this place you on the Sexuality spectrum?
My kneejerk response is bisexual.
My “kneejerk banged it against the desk” response is “Kinsey Scale, an indeterminate region between ‘so strongly oriented that you have no insight into attractiveness of the non compatible gender whatsoever’ and ‘bisexual’.”
(So, like, a 3, 4, or 5.)
Yeah, that.
Where-ever Kristen Stewart is, I’d wager.
I’m pretty sure she’s somewhere around an “I’m totally gay and had to pretend to date a dude to sell tickets” on that scale, though.
Bisexuality or pansexuality are strong possibilities
If that was me, I’d describe myself as bisexual/pansexual, or with fluid sexuality. ‘Questioning’ is also a legit title. You do you!
Oh no, not me, as I said, this is one of my “Awkward questions”, I ask them to learn more of sexuality from you peeps, since you know more than me.
Y’see, here’s the kicker: I just described Ethan from SP!. Before he discovered himself as Gay, he did find women attractive and had (And Enjoyed) intercourse with them. Example A) Connie. (in his own words [Paraphrasing]: “So I get a promotion AND I get to bang a hot babe?” *Beat panel* *Panel showing Ethan with a smug and pleased look in bed next to Connie*) B) Amber (but not so much)
Oh, Ethan identifies as gay. He was able to get off with Connie that one time, but he is far more attracted to men, both sexually and romantically. You don’t have to be sex-repulsed by women to be gay.
Even if Ethan found he was a 5.8 instead of a 6, it would be totally fine to round himself up to the most accurate identity.
wait what.
…. oh. that happened. http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=276
Don’t worry about it too much man, just do what (who) you want!
“Is there even a word for that?”
Idunno. If you still like the opposite gender, you are more bisexual than gay. If not, or if you are not attracted enough to pursue opposite gender any more, you are gay. OR… whatever label you want. It is your label to decide. Being self aware of your sexuality means not having to let peer pressure determine who you sex. Not even the glbtiqqa club.
maybe you ARE the sexuality spectrum
The real sexuality spectrum was the friends we lusted after along the way
The magic and the sex toys were inside us, all along
I wonder what sort of prism you’d need to split the sexuality spectrum into its component wavelengths
Also if it can be focused into some sort of deadly laser
Or whether you can use the sexuality spectrum to power weapons(rings, preferably) to become a space cop?
In brightest day, in darkest night
No homophobia will escape my sight
Let those who worship prejudice’s might
Beware the power of the Pan Lantern’s might!
…needs some work.
In darkest day, in brightest night,
Beware the TERFs made into light,
Let those who deny queer people’s rights
Burn like my power, Bisexual’s might!
OH WILLIS I BESEECH YOU:
Did SP!Connie actually do a horse or was she just messing with Ethan?
But like, did you stop being attracted to other genders?
I-
Did people miss this is one of my “Awkward questions”? I do this whenever I get a doubt about sexuality that goes beyond a simple google question. Not about me, it’s simple curiosity.
I know, I’m using “you” because you phrased the question using “you”
Dude, not everyone’s seen/knows of your “awkward questions” segment. With the way you phrased the question, it’s perfectly natural for people to assume you’re talking about yourself. And irredentist’s response was a perfectly valid follow up question regardless of whether it applies to you, anyone in general, or a comic character. No need to keep being so snippy about it, y’know?
You have discovered that you are attracted to the same sex, in addition to the opposite sex. I guess that makes two, although the nuances such as how attracted you are to the different characteristics of either one are going to sometimes vary, and may unevenly affect how you choose a partner.
For instance, I’m easily attracted to men, and this became much more apparent to me many years before I found I could probably go all the way with a girl. Strictly speaking, I am bisexual, but practically speaking I am homosexual. This is what the Kinsey scale is for, of course; although I think it fails to cover everything involved in pointing your compass sexual orientation wise.
/facepalm
…I swear on my life I didn’t mean you, Mr D. I mean anybody, like people in general. x(
Hm, Maybe I shouldn’t have phrased it in second person.
Sure, it is useful for hypothetical scenarios but if somebody responds in the same tone it becomes confusing.
I prefer “one” for hypothetical questions.
As in:
“If one were to eat all the ice cream, what would happen?”
“One would probably get sick and in trouble, in that order, why do you ask?”
“The ice cream’s gone and my sister just threw up.”
Bi/pan/polysexual are definitely possibilities, but it’s also worth noting that heteronormativity can make gay people assume that they’re experiencing het attraction when actually they have friendly feelings for that person. Some signs of that being the case, as opposed to a multisexual orientation, would be: only being attracted to people of the “opposite*” gender after they first express an interest,** choosing people to be attracted to, or getting into m/f relationships because you feel like it’s expected of you rather than because it’s something you want. I guess generally, I would say that if it’s “I feel gay now but I used to like girls/guys so I must have been straight?” then it’s probably heteronormativity at work, but if it’s “I realized I like my gender as well” then that would point towards a bi/pan/queer orientation. As a final note, keep in mind that it’s totally legit to be bi and more/less attracted to one gender than others — for instance, I tend to be into girls more often, but I still like guys and nonaligned nb people. I hope this was helpful and not just super long and over the top, lmao >.<
*my nb trans ass is uncomfortable with this wording but I can't think of a better way to phrase it
**this can also be an aspec thing but I don't want to get too off topic
As another NB person, I also try to steer away from “opposite gender” and the like. When I think about it, it just creates a really weird setup in my opinion, even before you get to the whole “reinforcing the gender binary” thing. I’m in the same boat with not being sure what to replace it with in situations like this, though.
Also, and this is only tangentially related but whatever, one time I was in a queer group and discussing how I’m generally not attracted to people of my own specific NB identity, and someone else in the group was like, “So…would that make you straight?”
That’s an interesting concept. I mean, Technically homosexuality is defined as being romantically atracted to your own gender, right?
Well, bisexuality can be defined as attraction to “similar and other genders” (though I see “same and others” more), so I think if you were trying to be technical and boxy about it, a label that allows for multiple gender attraction like bisexual would probably be more apt. I go with queer, personally.
But it is kind of interesting in general. There’s a character on a show I watch who’s AFAB and NB, and based on what they’ve said so far, they’re only attracted to men. Now, I imagine them defining themself as queer, but that could be my bias. Because of the use of gay as an umbrella term, I could also see them using it kind of casually, but probably not as an identifier. Basically, concepts like gay and straight seem very confusing to me when you’re outside of the gender binary.
Oh, and there are people who identify as NB and gay/lesbian, I just don’t see it for this character. I don’t know any NB people who identify as straight, but I suppose that’s possible as well.
I often use “queer folks” or “queer people” because it sounds subtly friendlier, and clarifies for the speaker what the intention of the word is. I am queer myself, but that’s not always readily apparent in every single conversation I ever have.
Yeah, I’m pretty boxy about stuff, I got a condition, everything has to be into neat little labeled boxes or I get confused. Thing is, Gender/sexuality issues are a big thing, its a spectrum, I can’t just put it into boxes, so I dunno how to act in regards to the whole thing. That is one of the reasons I tend to ask my big “AWKWARD QUESTIONS” and make sure people understand I’m not trying to do “Mocking Rhetorical Questions” but honest (if awkward) curiosity-driven questions.
On the same page, I have a hard tiem internalizing all the different terms because, honestly, I don’t know anyone IRL who cares about or is NB or even LBGT (Comes wiht living in a small town instead of a cosmopolitan city). I do my best to be accepting and stuff but I don’t know anyone like that so I know I’m gonna stuff my foot in my mouth at first contact.
Also I am currently not using the word “Queer” because an LGBT person recently told me it is currently “reclaimed” because a “Radicalized Feminist Group” who “Don’t believe in the existance of Trans People” is currently using the word in an insulting way.
I’m not sure I understand the last paragraph, but generally speaking there’s some push by TERFs against the word queer because it is inclusive of many and marginalized identities. I understand if you as a cishet person don’t feel comfortable using queer to describe multiple people or as a group label. I do think that’s fair. But just know that queer is not a bad word, and if you were referring to me specifically, and talking in reference to how I experience attraction, “queer” is the word I would want you to use and in fact the only one I would fund acceptable.
oh no, my problem was the opposite I think: I was suing “Queer” as a catch-all term for the whole LGBT spectrum because I still haven’t found a word for that, and an LGBT friend of mine told me that as a Cishet I shouldn’t use that word for a while because of the TERFs and I could be confused with a toxic person.
I wasn’t talking so much about what your problem was so much as what your problem is– that is, what you replaced it with. And TERFs, again, largely push for the “queer is a slur and should not be used,” so… people might not like you using it, but because they’d think you’re a TERF or something, you know? That said, I think LGBTQ+ works well enough as an umbrella term. I like queer, but some people specifically don’t identify with the term, so that doesn’t really work.
Sexuality for some people is partly about identity and so that scenario might still be “gay”.
For myself, I would say homoflexible. I’m sort of the reverse, in that I’m into ladies and actively turned off by masculine traits in men, but there ARE men who occasionally catch my eye.
And romantic interest is another thing entirely, for some. (I’m panromantic- what matters is the connection, not the gender or initial sexual attraction.)
As for your examples with SP!Ethan- I don’t know that he was ever attracted to women so much as he wasn’t actively turned off by them, and I feel like for him it was more about closeness and that was what got him going. So I feel like it was never about the fact that his partner was female.
I find it interesting that so many people are going with “bisexual” for the label. I guess it could be an answer to what the question is meant to ask? Like, if it said “you recently discovered you were attracted to the same gender…,” then I’d feel the same–bisexual, pansexual, middle sexuality, what have you. But, if you recently discovered that you’re gay…then you’re gay, you know? So in that way the question is kind of confusing, but if what’s said is what’s meant, then that’s what I’d go with.
As for previous experiences… heteronormativity, man. And I feel like there’s another word specific to sort of feeling (often unconsciously) pressured into hetero stuff, including feeling you have crushes or other romantic feelings and the like. As for enjoying the sex…sex is meant to be enjoyable, you know? It can feel good even with out sexual attraction. I think some people who realize they’re gay later in life have some awareness around repressing something, and some just take feelings they may have for people of another gender and go “Okay, this is what attraction feels like.”
If we’re talking Kinsey scale, I think it’s completely possibly for the person you described to be a 6. It just depends on the person and how they define themselves. (Oh, and of course some people experience their orientation as fluid.)
Compulsory heterosexuality was the term I was blanking on.
Most likely somewhere on the multi sexual spectrum (i.e. a sexuality that involves attraction to multiple genders). It would also be appropriate to call yourself Questioning, as you’re uncertain.
This could also be an example of coercive heteronormativity, where you feel obligated to be attracted to your ‘opposite’ binary sex.
https://pride-flags.deviantart.com/gallery/
This has a lot of good information, definition and labels wise, if you wanna browse. Also, pretty flags!
Oh hey if we’re doing random awkward questions….
My cis-het boyfriend has some covert transphobic feels. He would never, ever be a jerk about it, nor would he ever act against human rights… but secretly he wouldn’t date any transwoman, even if she chose to have surgeries.
I’m a cis-woman, but I don’t like that I’m dating somebody who would only date a cis-woman. And he likes self-improving, because we can always become less phobic humans, and because ghost-penis is not an actual thing.
Does anyone have any resources to help him get transphobic cobwebs out of his head? He already has openly trans* and NB friends, but we doubt they’d like to know about his hangup.
Oh, now this is more awkwards than what I asked, thus I have Awkward answers from someone who isn’t properly educated.
On one hand, I understand what you say, like, you shouldn’t differentiate a cis-woman and a trans-woman.
on the other hand, I see “Try to get someone to feel attracted to an identity they aren’t attracted to” and I think “Isn’t that one of the things that is bad?”
So my final veredict:I’m confused and I don’t get this. Need less contradictory info.
The issue, I think, is that not being attracted to a woman on the basis of her being trans is rooted in transphobia. You don’t have to be attracted to anyone, but it’s beneficial to look at why you’re not attracted to generalized groups of people of the gender(s) you’re attracted to. It’s not like Leorale is trying to get her partner to date a trans woman, but to address these deeply internalized ideas that may exist around gender, sex, and identity.
Yes, that. The point isn’t to make him date people who aren’t me, the point is trying to reduce transphobia.
I would say, let your bf manage his own sexuality in his own time.
As a pretty-much-entirely asexual person myself, I know I wouldn’t want to have sex with a transwoman *or* a ciswoman *or* men or NB people or whomever. It’s an entirely physical, visceral orientation that has nothing to do with choices or beliefs. Like, if I could choose to be attracted to somebody I would, you know?
Some people are just attracted to men (straight ladies and gay men). Some are just attracted to women (straight men and lesbian women). Some are attracted to several varieties but not all, some are attracted to all types, and some to only one person ever in their entire life.
Your boyfriend isn’t transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a bodily category of person, any more than I’m misanthropic for not wanting to have sex with anyone. Lesbians aren’t man-haters, gay men aren’t misogynists, and so on. Who you want to touch your body is deeply personal and can’t be dictated by anyone else, nor can it often be something one chooses or changes–not even when the other person checks all the right boxes on paper.
So, by all means, call him out if he says transphobic things, and encourage him to read things written by transgender writers. Just do it knowing that the person who gets to decide who your boyfriend experiences sex with is your boyfriend (and his sex partner, ofc). His body belongs to himself alone.
Thank you.
Actually, while generally the Kinsey Scale is a effect measure for ones sexuality , there are many places in which it fall short. One of these is the change in sexual orientation over time. While you aren’t likely to go from a 0 to a 6 it is possible to change by one or two on the scale. Many other measures of sexuality have been built with this in mind and include sections for current and past sexual orientation.
Let me follow the above information with this; I acquired all this information from doing a research paper in school. I have no personal experience with this and if your personal experience dissageees with this information then I defer to that as first hand accounts generally trump Wikipedia.
Sex, when done properly is an enjoyable experience. If you’ve never had truly fulfilling sex before it’s possible to think that what you’re having is the same thing everyone else is and assume you’re satisfied.
That’s the situation SP!Ethan was in, he’d had sex with women, he thought it was satisfying but not that big a deal, right up until he got a taste of action with a guy and things were given perspective at which point he realised what being actually into your partner felt like. Ethan himself states that all the times he’s been with women in the past were mistakes.
I…honestly believe they would genuinely be a good couple, who would challenge one another, while still being respectful of boundaries and one anothers’ traditions. And if not a couple, they’ll at least be good friends because they can, again, /challenge/ one another.
It’s not for Becky or Sarah to decide. It’s Jacob’s and trying to break up a hippyish relationship isn’t cool.
Yeah, but where’s the fun in playing fair.
i really hope you are being sarcastic
It absolutely is for Jacob and Raidah to mutually and individually decide if they want to be in a relationship. And, as you say, it is not for Becky or Sarah to decide whether or not Jacob and Raidah should be in a relationship.
But neither is it their responsibility to encourage Jacob to remain in a relationship with Raidah. What’s between him and Raidah is between him and Raidah, and it is not anyone else’s job to police that private relationship.
If it turns out, in the end, that their relationship can be broken up, isn’t it better off for both of them that they find out now, during the dating stage?
If a relationship can be broken up (or even if it is unlikely to last in the long term), that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better that the relationship end early rather than running its course on its own. Even if Jacob leaves Raidah for Joyce, there’s no guarantee that he’ll be better off.
Like, what they’re doing so far isn’t terrible. It’s basically just pushing Joyce and Jacob together in a way where it might happen naturally.
If they were being more aggressive about it, it would be kinda shitty of them. Especially since it’s possible for everyone to lose if it goes bad. Especially if Jacob ever learns about their plans, or that Sarah wanted to break them up just to hurt Raidah. Then everyone would end up sad and nobody would be smooching anyone.
I think I entirely agree with you, and maybe the abstract part of my brain was getting too much control of me?
My parents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary, but also my mom told me the story of how she was ditched by a beau she thought she was going to marry; and painful as that must have been for her, five years after that she literally married the love of her life.
I do think it is shitty of Sarah to want to break up Jacob and Raidah just because of her animus toward Raidah, without caring what’s best for Jacob; and I do think it is at best misguided and at worst shitty of Joyce to want to abet that breakup solely on account of her loyalty toward Sarah (as far as she is consciously aware).
And if you-know-who hasn’t already written your last paragraph into being because the drama and because he has to live up to his moniker, he’s probably going, “hmm…” right now.
Any relationship can be broken up if there are outside forces trying to sabotage it. No relationship has the guarantee of lasting forever. However, that’s still not okay for someone outside the relationship to decide when it’s run its course, especially in this case where it’s clearly not that they have Jacob’s best interests at heart but rather their own desires.
The ONE caveat I’ll make is when there’s domestic abuse involved. Even if someone is truly, utterly unhappy in the relationship otherwise, the best thing you can do is to encourage them to end it.
Welp, one the one hand, I don’t want Jacob to break up with Raidah, because that would be horrible, but on the other hand I really like Joyce and Jacob’s chemistry and kinda ship them. So I guess what I’m trying to say is Damn You, Willis!
Also, clever Becky, casually steering that ship with neither one noticing…
Do you not want Jacob to break up with Raidah on principle? (A fair position, one I favor) Or because you genuinely like her character? Because hitherto she’s been nothing less than an incorrigible shitheel.
I agree she condescended to Dina, and overdoes her hatred of Sarah, but with Jacob, I like her self-confidence, good communication, and lack of jealousy.
She’s got some virtues, I’ll concede that. Doesn’t change the fact the only reason she’s not as bad as Mary is she takes off the edge with materialism and (probably) a fair bit of ganja.
There’s also that Raidah isn’t a bigot who bullies or (intentionally) insults people for minor annoyances. Her treatment of Sarah was awful, but so was Sarah’s treatment of her, and while Sarah is still seeking Revenge, Raidah seems to have called a truce (even despite being punched in the face), and now seems to just avoid Sarah.
Like, I’m not terribly fond of her, but I have to respect her for that.
Though the reason I don’t like the idea of people actively hoping to break her and Jacob up is that Jacob seems to be very happy with their relationship. In particular, I think what bugs me is how it doesn’t even seem to be a concern for any of them.
Like, if they were at least seem to have some misgivings about trying to break up a happy relationship, it might not bug me, even if they still went ahead with it
No Raidah started that poor treatment. I went and did a reread recently and had totally forgotten how abjectly AWFUL Raidah is to Sarah. seeks her out to trash her thoroughly, really really nasty stuff- at that point the worst Sarah had done was call parents on a roommate spiralling into depression and serious substance abuse, visible to no-one else.
I think that ‘truce’ was the RESULT of getting punched- tormenting Sarah was no longer low-cost. She can no longer expect Sarah to just take it. That’s not to excuse the assault, Sarah really shoulda kept a lid on her shit, even when she had been keeping that lid on for MONTHS of abuse, and blew that lid ONLY when someone else started copping that shit too.
but they aren’t reely comparable in awfulness
Oh yeah, so far we have NOT seen her full character by a long shot. We’ve seen her primarily through the lens of Sarah- and remember that Raidah actively believes that Sarah screwed over their mutual friend because she just couldn’t be bothered with her grieving for her mother. Raidah can’t see the shades of grey in the situation, which is hardly surprising and doesn’t make her a bad person. Does it excuse the bullying? Hell no- although it’s also unclear how much of that is active, and how much passive- but it DOES explain it.
As for Dina, yeah, she was clumsy about perceived mental health. That’s not a new trait in the world. She did come across as well-meaning in her idiocy though, not malicious, so she likely was reacting to Dina as she had been taught to- which is actually probably a common reaction.
So yeah, I’m still waiting to see more of who Raidah actually is, because I highly doubt her character is “shitheel”. Quite apart from anything else, Willis’ history of character writing suggests that she’s far more complex than that.
Your thought process interests me. I appreciate your patience with her.
What makes you think she won’t end up being another Mary (a static foil to a developing character, Mary:Joyce::Raidah:Sarah)?
Oh shit, I take that back. For some reason I completely missed the part about her grief over her parent dying. That muddles the waters quite a bit.
Unless I also missed something that wasn’t “Raidah’s parent dying”, but “Raidah thinking Sarah couldn’t be bothered with Dana grieving over her mother dying”.
That was what I meant, yeah. Apologies if that was unclear.
She’s not an openly hateful bigot?
She’s certainly hateful. The question is whether the operative word there is “bigot” or “openly”.
It’s a little bit of both. While there are definitely aspects of her I don’t like (her unwillingness to hear Sarah’s side of the Dana incident, and condescension to Dina being the big ones), I don’t think she’s necessarily a bad person, just an immature one. What we’ve seen of her relationship with Jacob has struck me as healthy (admittedly, I have no personal experience with romantic relationships, so am going off what I’ve observed of others), and as much as I really like Joyce and Jacob’s chemistry, I think it would be a dick move for Jacob to just dump Raidah in favor of Joyce.
Past page so probably nobody will see this, but I disagree. A person being in a relationship isn’t a commitment to “forever no matter what”. (Thankfully) marriage isn’t even that commitment now. If he realises after only a few weeks that he would be happier with someone else, breaking the existing relationship isn’t a dick move at all. And at this point, without a bond built over extended time, if he met someone else he would prefer to be with he would likely compare Raidah to her, which is unfair on them both.
Why? She has some admirable traits; but she also has some contemptible traits. (Not irredeemable ones. It’s called “Dumbing of Age” for a reason.)
I am in particular thinking of her condescension towards Dina, which is (as far as we know) something that only Dina and Sarah have witnessed. If and (quite possibly) when Jacob ever hears Dina’s side of the story, that’s going to give him pause. And maybe Jacob finds out more about the Dana issue than what he has heard from Raidah? That’s going to give him pause too.
tl:dr: a dating relationship is not in any way, shape, or form equivalent to marriage. There are non-married relationships that are equivalent to marriage, but for now Jacob and Raidah are not in one of those.
My opinion is A little complicated on this one. If Sarah was trying to break up Jacob and Raidah so she could get Jacob, then I’d probably side that Sarah is in the wrong. However, I’m pretty sure by now that Sarah has realized that Jacob isn’t looking for casual sex, which is what Sarah wants.
Instead, what Sarah is trying to do is get Raidah dumped. It isn’t that she wants Jacob for herself, she just doesn’t believe Raidah deserves him. And looking at things from her perspective it’s kinda easy to see why. Sarah has been kicked around by Raidah and her other friends because she blew the whistle and Dana’s alomost suicidal drug use. And I can say from personal experience that being ostracized by your peers is really painful, especially if you’re in the right.
So in closure, since Sarah is trying to keep Raidah from getting something she feels Raidah doesn’t deserve, I’m going with Sarah is justified in this.
Becky, as far as I can tell, is trying to get Joyce with Jacob because their a good match, which is morally questionable as I don’t believe she knows Sarah and Raidah’s history. She isn’t doing this to correct any sort of injustice in the world, she’s doing it cause her gurl would totes be better for him, and that’s just wrong.
(Wrong morally, from a bystanders point of view I totally agree but still, you shouldn’t try to ruin a happy relationship for personal happiness)
The thing is- Jacob isn’t an object. It’d be one thing if Sarah was trying to keep Raidah from getting a new pair of shoes or a jacket. After all, those are material objects, and they’re not going to be affected one way or another. Jacob is a person, with thoughts and feelings and more importantly, agency. Treating him as some sort of “prize” or “toy” to take away from Raidah is wrong, no matter how Raidah treated Sarah.
Sarah is justified in thinking Raidah does not deserve Jacob.
Sarah is not justified in trying to ruin Raidah’s relationship with Jacob.
Oh wow. Becky is a social engineering GENIUS. Well played.
Becky is a goddess of guile, and it always seems to work so handily (as seen here, or with hijacking Robin’s phone). I love it, but it makes me appreciate even more that her relationship with Dina has been requiring her to be more upfront about her intentions.
I’m sorry that I ever doubted you Becky! I thought you were just being a jerk, but that plan was pulled off flawlessly! That was Mike levels of manipulation, truly impressive.
There’s no need to be rude.
Seriously. Unlike Mike, she actually brought about the results she intended
Mike brings about the results he intends, too. He doesn’t bring about the results people assume he intends.
I don’t know if everyone except Joyce and Jacob are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons–either way I don’t like it.
Joyce isn’t all that innocent here either-remember, she’s also here to try and break up Jacob and Raidah.
Good! Job! BECKY!!!
Becky, you don’t have to emotionally manipulate people like that.
Your gravitar makes that comment perfect!
Frankly, I’d much rather be played for my own benefit by Becky and learn it than remain without first-hand experience when a less benevolent manipulator comes along.
I had a good chuckle at this
On behalf of those who called it: CALLED IT.
“Innocuous”, my aunt Fanny.
So why WAS she trying to get them together?
Is Sarah behind it, or does Becky have her own agenda?
Bit of column A, all of column B.
Becky wants Joyce to be happy.
My wild guess completely unsupported by canon is, it is a coping technique with being rejected by Joyce. In the way of “if I pair her off with somebody else, my feelings and my hurt for her will certainly go away. I just want her to be happy. This definitely works. It works, right? …right?”
See, when I try this manipulative stuff, I get two swift punches to the head.
The other head.
What, is my smile not smug enough or something?
You just need to hang around less violent people honestly
Yeah, I second that. As a general rule of mine, if somone punches you twice, they are not your friend.
(This is, actually, a literal rule of mine. When I was young, I had trouble telling “friendly riffing” and playful roughhousing from actual ridicule or violence. As a response, I would often do nothing at the first infraction, but strike back swiftly at the second.)
Damn, I meant to have qoutes around “playful roughhousing” as well. Not for the first time, I lament the dificit of an edit button.
*deficit. “dificit” looks like you’re misspelling “difficult”.
This will be a fun story to tell at their wedding.
Please. Given how long Becky’s known Joyce, this is going to be, like barely in the top 50 for maid-of-honor anecdotes.
“..and do you know, Joyce doesn’t eat stuff that eat other stuff.”
“KNOCK IT OFF! You have told the same joke for 25 years!!!”
“So, then you are OK with things touching at the wedding buffé?”
“…that means bad luck on weddings.”
“Whatever. HEY, YOU IN THE BACK, DID YOU KNOW THAT I AM A LESBIAN????”
Voice from the back: “BECKY, BY THIS POINT, BEINGS IN OTHER GALAXIES ARE AWARE THAT YOU ARE A LESBIAN!!!!”
Damn Becky, you do some solid work
Damn Becky… I’m… I’m impressed! YAY!!!
All according to Beckaku.
+1
As long as it isn’t bukkake.
One one hand, I get what Becky was doing was probably to push them together. That’s certainly a grey at best area, which I say even not liking Raidah.
On the other hand, it also had the benefit of getting them past their disrespect towards each other’s religious beliefs, which is basically a good thing period.
Impressive Becky.
As Dina would probably say “Clever girl…” Atta girl Becks!
Spaghetti Monster have mercy on our souls, should Becky ever fall to the dark side.
I really like Joyce and Jacob together, and Jacob gave the impression that he’s with Raidah more because she’s the kind of woman he wants to be with than because she’s the woman he wants to be with. (Couple pages back, and his comments on Joyce dating Ethan.) Abd if they broke up I feel like Jacob and Raidah might both be mature enough to handle it fine.
However, one thing that might be a sliiiight issue is if he falls for Joyce, and then finds out she was trying to break up him and Raidah. I’m guessing her innocence is appealing to him- she’s not trying to seduce him or tempt him, she actually thinks she’s trying to get him with Sarah. So finding that out, I’m guessing, would hugely hurt Jacob if he developed real and long lasting feelings for Joyce.
Honestly, I read this as insecurity he cannot meet her demands.
Possible- I didn’t read it that way but I can see it. There’s a lot of conjecture at this stage with regards to Jacob and Raidah, both as characters and as a couple. (Her more so than him, we’ve seen a lot more of him and in a more neutral light.) Really, at this point the main thing to do is wait for more on them- but discussion is fun in the mean time. 😀
I’m sorry but, to me, ‘Raidah’, ‘mature’ and ‘handle it fine’ really don’t belong in the same sentence. If anything, Becky is basically inviting Raidah to turn her venom from Sarah to Joyce.
I commented about this above but I can absolutely see why Raidah has a lot of venom for Sarah. Her perspective is that Sarah completely screwed over her close friend because Sarah couldn’t be bothered to deal with Dana’s grief over her mother passing. Now, we know there’s a lot more to that story- but that’s Raidah’s perspective, and with that in mind, is it really a surprise she’s so resentful to Sarah?
smooth, Becky… very smooth…
So my question for the evening:
I’m pretty into webcomics. I don’t follow as many as some, but I really like the ones I do. I’m wondering from those who have gotten other people in their lives interested in webcomics, what do you feel helped, either in what you did or just what about the other person made them more able to get into the genre?
I’ve tried to share this and other webcomics with friends of mine, but generally they don’t seem interested. Which is fine, I just find it both kind of interesting in itself and unique to webcomics as a genre.
I have no help on this, but I am genuinely interested in the responses as well, because me getting people excited for something works about as well as me getting people excited for bricks.
I’ve had some success, but with different approaches. With some people, just linking to a particularly interesting page will get them to check out some more, get them hooked if they are into what they have seen so far, and then binge it.
With others, that approach doesn’t work, but what have worked is just using comics I think they might be interested in as examples when we discuss examples of tropes or archetypes in fiction, adding some extra details if they show interest for the quoted example.
Of course, it’s also not an either/or situation. Someone can be mostly interested in plot, tropes and characters but still be won over by being shown some good or interesting artwork, for example.
However, in any case, what’s worked for me is showing others (either by linking or describing, depending on the person) a bit of the comic, and then allowing them to try it out at their own pace.
With my husband, well-written LGBT characters seems to do the trick. He reads way more webcomics now than before we met.
Otherwise, I would go with common interests, and accepting that some people simply won’t enjoy that method of storytelling. Sadly it’s still often seen as a “waste of time” compared to books, films etc.
I reference my webcomics a LOT. treat them like memes. HAY this panel is relevant to the topic of conversation just now! Do that a buncha times and wait for ‘what’s that thing you post pics from all the time’ or ‘HEY I READ THAT THING YOU POST FROM ALL THE TIME IT’S GUD’
SMBC is really good for that apporach cos SWEAR there’s an SMBC for everything
Yumi, reading your question instantly prompted a memory of me, as a ten-year-old, rushing out on a Sunday morning, scooping up the Sunday newspaper, tearing off the rubber bands, and turning to the comics section.
I can’t tell you why I have always loved comics, any more than I can tell anyone why I love the sound of the cello or the taste of fresh apricots.
In my final round of college — I entered at 18, dropped out and re-entered several times, got my B.A. at 32 — anyway, the round of college that stuck for me, I was a music major. And it happened time and time again that friends and acquaintances of mine would give their senior recital — the culmination of your life as an undergrad music major — and, to quote one of them: “The people I expected to show up, didn’t, and the people who showed up, I didn’t expect.”
We gravitate towards people who share our tastes; that’s a normal human tendency. I know someone who married a woman he met at a Renaissance Faire, but I also know couples who, when one of them goes to the RenFaire, the other one finds something else to do that weekend.
When I have the chance to introduce someone I know to something I think they might like, I do so. But I do so knowing that their response to this new-to-them thing is not necessarily going to be the same as mine.
(But if anyone here is going to dispute the genius of Don Martin or Basil Wolverton, they are going to have to fight me to the pain.)
I love webcomics and use them as memes. Have always loved comics but the freedom that comic artists have on the web has made them tremendously better. I remember back in the ’60’s when Charles Schultz was sometimes controversial and wonder what drafts burned in his house last week that the syndicate wouldn’t touch.
Cartoons have also gotten immeasurably better and more meaningful. Think Steven Universe, MLP, Inside Out, UP, Toy Story.
Marsh, the couples you know that do separate things when one goes to RenFaire? It may be a happy arrangement, or… it may not.
I will send some individual webcomics to my wife, which she enjoys enough, but she isn’t going to go read them daily, or archive binge.
However, she’s not really an internet-based-entertainment omnivore. I do find that she responds to the freedom to be long-form, or weirder-than-newsprint (and she and I each grew up during the printed newspaper era).
Thanks for the responses. As I think back on my own experiences, I’ve found giving people hard copies of webcomics to be the most effective, but that gets expensive and also, in my opinion, takes away some of the experience of webcomics. But mostly the money thing.
The lesbian love sleuth! Now available for other sexuality preferences!
Given how badly her last attempt blew up in the two principals’ faces, I wouldn’t use Becky’s services. Of course, it’s likely that she doesn’t know that Leslie and Mindy crashed and burned, isn’t it?
To be fair, Leslie’s kinda self-destructing at the moment.
Did anyone finish reading the strip and immediately feel the urge to imitate Galasso and yell FOOLS!
I’m liking how Becky is thinking shes doing a good thing here but the reality is shes being extremely cold and manipulative
Manipulative, yes. Cold? I don’t think so. She loves Joyce- hopefully her feelings have shifted to being a more platonic love- and I’m guessing seeing how they are together has had an impact.
Unless she’s just doing it because Sarah wants to get at Raidah, but I doubt that. Becky’s too… genuine for that, I think.
Its cold because, unless shes unaware, shes actively trying to get Jacob and Joyce together which means she wants to break up a perfectly good relationship (Jacob and Raidah)
Also remembering it was Jacob that invited them to his church because hes a good person and because of that hes getting manipulated by Becky into becoming closer with Joyce
Its cold and uncaring and hopefully Becky realises soon that what shes doing is is really mean and grows out of it
Jacob in the past lamented that people see him in a certain way, Becky is dehumanizing him just as much here by not taking into account his feelings
I always cringe when someone mentions the “perfectly good relationship” between Jacob and Raidah.
We haven’t seen enough of it to know if it’s good or not, can’t tell if Raidah’s acting manipulative or not – the scene with die party at Joyce’s and Sarah’s suggests that she does – and it has been all of three weeks long up to now.
If Jacob finds he likes Joyce more an decides to end his budding relationship with Raidah that’s totally his affaire.
If other people ship him with Joyce and provide large pointers one way or another, that’s a bit, well teenish, but then, they are teens.
And, actually, why should Becky care about Raidah? The only thing she knows about her is she behaved abominable towards Sarah.
Fine we don’t know its good other than what Jacob says and yes if he likes Joyce better then its his decision but Becky here is actively seeking a break up and why should Becky care about Raidah, well why should anyone care about anyone else they hardly know except for that thing about treating others as you’d like to be treated
I still wouldn’t call Becky’s behaviour “cold”, personally. You absolutely have the right to think it unpleasant and not okay, but I still believe it comes at least somewhat from a place of caring and warmth for Joyce.
I don’t like the way Jacob’s feelings and thoughts are being treated as irrelevant either, but I still do believe Becky is at least somewhat acting out of love for her friend.
You say “manipulative,” I say persuasive. And whatever you call it, it’s not inherently cold.
Parents manipulate their children all the time, and by “manipulate” I mean “teach.” Friends manipulate their friends all the time, and by “manipulate” I mean “try to persuade them that they should not do that stupid thing that they seem intent on doing.”
Whatever Becky is doing, it’s not because she thinks she’s going to get some personal benefit from it. Other than perhaps her best friend becomes happier, and that in turn makes her happier.
If Beckys end game comes to pass then Jacob and Joyce will be together, for that to happen Jacob and Raidah have to break up, Becky is trying to facilitate that
Even though she recieves no material benefit you don’t think its cold of het to try to break up a relationship?
Jacob and Raidah are dating. It’s that simple. They are dating. They’ve been dating for maybe a month? Being in a dating-for-one-month relationship is not the same as being in an I-love-you-forever relationship.
Jacob and Raidah are not in any kind of relationship where either one of them has publicly announced, “Back off! This one’s mine.” They’re dating. Maybe it will be forever, maybe it will go down in flames, who knows? But at this point, only Jacob and Raidah know if it’s more than just dating. We certainly don’t. And neither do Joyce and Becky.
They may only be dating, but that still doesn’t negate what Becky’s doing. No matter how strong their relationship is, Becky has no right to meddle in it and break it up just because she feels like Jacob would be better off with Joyce.
So what Becky’s doing here is pretty cold and manipulative, albeit well intentioned. She wants to do what’s best for Joyce, but if she succeeds she’s going to probably end up hurting Joyce, Jacob and Raidah, and she probably has an inkling of what’s going to happen. She knows Jacob and Raidah are in a relationship and are perfectly fine with each other(at least according to Jacob), she knows that Joyce would never willingly go along with her plan, but she still does it.
I don’t agree. They’re dating. They’re a couple. Just because they haven’t passed whatever arbitrary limit you think they need to doesn’t mean breaking them up is cool.
Maybe they’re still in the “We’ve been on a couple dates, but it’s not actually a relationship and we’re both still playing the field” stage, but I don’t think so. They behave like a couple.
I know I would have been pretty damn upset if I’d found someone trying to break up one of my college relationships a month in. Even if they didn’t turn out to be “forever”.
Joyce: *eyes small*
Jacob: *EYES YUGE*
+1
bonus +1 for the typo(?) that enhances the effect
Last time I saw something this dense, I was observing a neutron star.
WAS IT COLLIDING WITH ANOTHER NEUTRON STAR TO PRODUCE THE ONLY EVENT YET OBSERVED AS A GRAVITATIONAL WAVE SOURCE WITH AN OPTICAL COUNTERPART?!!?!??!?!!?!
ALSO GOLD???
I was kidding and have never observed a neutron star but yes that observation is wickedly awesome. ^_^
Huh? Yeah, sure that’s pretty neat.
Anyway, let’s get back to discuss the fact that two fictional people might be edging towards FALLING IN LOVE with each other.
(I honestly can’t figure out if I’m sarcastic, and if so, why.)
You are a mastress of reverse psychology.
I don’t know if this was a typo but I like it as a gender neutral term.
I don’t think it was a typo! I’ve seen it used as a gender neutral term by the kink community so it’s an existing word already. 😀
It was not a typo but good god am I glad that it’s used as a kink term.
Becky is remarkably good at this.
I still ship this (as long as Jacob breaks up with his gf and doesn’t cheat on her).
I wonder at what point Becky and Jacob will realise that their life today is a romantic comedy?
Well done, Becky! I wouldn’t have thought she had it in her, which I imagine only makes this sort of manipulation all the more masterful.
It’s hilarious how better she’s at this than Sarah
Sarah has only spite on her side, Becky on the other hand is powered with Love.
Now THAT’S scary
Here is a thing I believe firmly and 100% :
A person cannot steal a person.
Everybody makes choices. Remaining faithful and committed is a choice two people make every day from within the relationship. If a person within a relationship chooses to break up with someone, that is the choice of the breaker-upper. If a person chooses to cheat on someone, that is the choice of the cheater.
At the end of the day, people don’t own people, and breaking up with someone in order to date someone else isn’t morally wrong. It is always painful to be broken up with, but in my experience, even mutual break-ups–heck, even initiating a break-up when it’s vital to one’s mental health!–can be emotionally devastating. This is one of my favorite advice columnist letters, where the writer explains how she took DTMFA advice, and logically she knows she did the right thing, but emotionally and physically she is wrecked: http://rolereboot.org/sex-and-relationships/details/2017-09-dear-dana-break-someone-move/
The pain of heartache doesn’t mean the breaker-upper did the wrong thing; it just means that often, people need to do what’s best for themselves, and that pain happens.
Which brings me to Joyce-Jacob shipping.
I’m ambivalent about this ship in general. But, here’s the thing: I cannot foresee Jacob cheating on Raidah with Joyce (something that would be actually wrong, as it’d be a breach of trust). Nor could I see Joyce being okay with doing romantic things behind Raidah’s back, cultivating an affair. While clearly che has a crush on Jacob, all of her conversation has been pretty natural rather than flirtatious.
If this ship sails, it’ll be because Jacob freely chooses to pursue a romance with Joyce after choosing to break up with Raidah. Becky gave him a conversational shove, and Sarah helped Joyce dress nicely, of course, but he’s completely free to ignore those things. If his relationship with Raidah is fulfilling, he will. If it’s lacking, he’ll break up with her.
All of which to say, Becky is rad and has done no wrong so far.
Somehow reading this comment led me to see Becky’s actions as more wrong than I previously had.
Care to explain why?
I found Stella’s description a fine rounding up of why I don’t see a problem with what Becky did here, but if it convinces you otherwise, I’m curious how this can be.
What you’re saying is all well and good but its that Becky is actively seeking to create a situation that otherwise wouldn’t likely exist is the problem, shes created doubt in Jacobs mind that otherwise mightn’t exist
Shes not being rad (well I guess she is in a way)
Just because you wouldn’t give into temptations doesn’t mean the person doing the tempting isn’t being any less wrong though.
If say, one of your friends asked you to help them traffick something in exchange for some money that you could use (just going to an extreme example here), and you said no, it doesn’t mean that the person who made the offer in the first place isn’t doing anything wrong just because you resisted it.
Sarah and Becky haven’t done anything so bad as to encourage Jacob to cheat. But Sarah dressed Joyce not because she wanted her to look nice, but with the express intent of making Jacob get wandereyes and break up with Raidah. That’s wrong no matter which way you slice it, no matter what his reaction.
If Jacob breaks up with Raidah for Joyce on his own terms, then that’s okay.
If Jacob breaks up with Raidah for Joyce because he’s being subtly manipulated by no less than three women who do not care about his input in any of this but rather want to “get back” at his girlfriend, that’s super shitty.
Four women, though their motivations vary.
Sarah: get back at Raidah
Joyce: shipping Sarah/Jacob, along with her own suppressed hormones.
Becky: make Joyce happy
Billie: matchmaking Joyce/Jacob. Showing off role as alpha bongo.
The key problem with this situation is that this does not just involve Jacob, Raidah and Joyce. There is a an extra party in the form of Sarah and Billie. They are more interested in getting back at Raidah than in Joyce’s and Jacob’s happiness and that’s the shitty part of this situation. Aiming to wreck a relationship out of spite is a shitty thing to do and that’s that.
I don’t think Billie’s really out to get Raidah, but just enjoys playing matchmaker for her friends. Getting that tower of a man for Joyce is enough motivation for her.
Well she seems to know that Jacob is Raidah’s boyfriend so it’s still a tiny bit of a dick move. But yeah, she is actually less to blame than Sarah and Joyce herself who was perfectly fine with breaking up that relationship.
While you’re right that it’s ultimately the responsibility of the person involved, that doesn’t mean the one manipulating them is blame free.
Both can be bad at the same time.
And even though breaking up with someone isn’t morally wrong, trying to break up a couple for your own purposes can be.
I shpuld 100% be asleep, but instead I just went back and reread the strips with Becky coming out to Joyce and all that, because I guess I’d rather be in pain.
It only just now struck me that the as-yet invisible 800-pound gorilla in the room is its title. “Steadfast”? Not the otherwise obvious “Backfired”?
It’s talking about Joyce and Jacob’s sense of morality and propriety, I think.
It also points to why this ultimately WON’T WORK.
Jacob’s too loyal. He’s going to stick with Raidah because she’s his girlfriend even if he’s much more into Joyce and realizes that, because Raidah’s his girlfriend.
Seriously, if the anti-Jacob/Raidah (we need a name for that ship) in-universe crowd really want to get their love-sabotaging manipulation game on (and ignore all the ethical quagmire of doing so), the weak link to target is Raidah.
Get her jealous. Get her judgy. Provoke her to outbursts that disgust Jacob. Find ways to get her disgusted by Jacob. Lots of options. She’s the one prone to harshly severing a relationship, so if you’re out to sabotage the relationship, Raidah being the one to call it off is your endgame.
Jakes isn’t.
That’s the thing: Raidah is just paranoid enough that I could see her sabotaging their relationship due to Jacob having a close friendship with “Sarah’s roomie”.
Though honestly, I find that a lot more problematic than just setting Joyce up as a potentially more attractive option. Most of the manipulation tried hasn’t been that kind of nasty. Becky’s done a few bits to tear down Raidah, but most of the rest has just been playing Joyce up.
If anyone tried to manipulate Raidah in distrusting Jacob or even telling Jacobs basicly true but slightly screwed tales about Raidah’s behavior towards other, I would totally agree that that was wrong behavior. But this is not what’s happening here.
Beck is giving Joyce and Jacob both a slight push so they’ll find themselves agreeing after the problematic event of Joyce freaking out on Jacobs church, what’s the problem?
Don’t you think anyone should have feelings for a person in a relationship with another? All relationships should be held sacred and no one should ever think about creating opportunities for seeing another person in a favorable light?
Having a crush, being attracted or falling in love with someone is not a decision. What you do with those feelings is, and I get the impression, anyone creating opportunity for those emotions is already a bad person in your eyes. why?
As I said, I’d find the nasty stuff much worse. People generally can’t help what feelings they have, but Sarah and Joyce (and apparently Becky) have deliberately set themselves to break up Jacob and Raidah. This isn’t just Joyce deciding she likes hanging out with Jacob so she makes opportunities to do so. Even with a crush on him, that can be perfectly innocent, though I’ve seen it lead to disaster.
This is a deliberate, intentional attempt to break up an apparently happy couple for reasons of their own – Sarah to deny him to Raidah, Joyce because she wants to help her friend with her crush. Becky’s motives haven’t been explicitly stated, so they could still be more benign.
l o l
oh god I forgot
These two are Kindred spirits and Becky is a freaking miracle worker.
Y’all are dumber than a sack of hammers.
But sharper than a sack of wet mice?
Becky… Sarah’s not going to like that…
…unless you’re trying to set Sarah up with Joe…
In which case she’s going to MURDER you
I think you might have missed some stuff about the development of Sarah’s goals.
I’m struggling to see where Jacob got this impression of Joyce from the last few strips.
I mean – “We” might know she has those traits, but I can’t see them being displayed too much over the last week or two.
What he *didn’t* say was, ‘magician’…
‘cos, you know, where is she hiding that phone!?
(or is it a knife?)
Jacob’s knowledge of Joyce extends beyond just today’s interactions. Heck, I assume it’s because of that previous knowledge that he was able to put up with some of today’s interactions.
As for phone/knife storage, there is one obvious answer, though I can’t really see Joyce going for it…
Yep. Sarah has an incredible number of Joyce stories, for people who’ve known each other for ~2 months.
Sarah has told many of them to Jacob, and fairly accurately (from what we know), but they’re humorous nonetheless, and it’s the only way Sarah actually get tongue-untied around him.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/joycestories/
Yeah… But it’s really laid at the feet of presumption because we’venot really *seen* that , have we?
Certainly not enough for him to make such a definitive *readership* description of her virtues?
There’s also this. Beyond Sarah’s Joyce stories, he’s heard about the kidnapping thing.
Jacob seems to know Joyce pretty well. He defended her from Sarah too once.
Becky has loved Joyce pretty much her whole life. Wanting Joyce to be happy with Jacob is an act of self-sacrifice.
Compersion! An act of compersion. 😀
Beckster that was a Slam Dunk
My Episcopal church serves brunch after almost every service. Another reason I converted!
Damn, I love brunch.
same, we call it the 8th sacrament
I call it second breakfast.
No, second breakfast is before brunch.
The morning’s getting pretty busy here. Where do elevenses fit in?
At 11:00, obviously.
oh my god becky, look at that brunch
Having reread the last couple of strips, I wonder if this is truly Becky being a master manipulator or just being passive-aggressive.
Considering that her only “manipulation” has been goading two people who already like each other into defending one another’s lifestyles, I’m inclined to guess the latter over the former.
Ultimate matchmaker.
It’s like Becky doesn’t even want to help Joyce get Jacob to like Sarah!
I loled!
Add one to the theory that Becky ships it and knows her friend well enough to figure out how to give a little push.
+1
Tee heee
oh boy, here they go.
Also I know that feel Becky.
…. What just happened.
Poor Becky
So, like always, we’re all presented with the same scene and there are a lot of different interpretations of whats just transpired over the last couple of strips
I think what Becky has done is unfeeling and manipulative but its not deliberate, it comes from a place of wanting to do good by Joyce but I don’t think shes thought through the ramifications of it all
I don’t think Jacob will appreciate that his feelings were ignored and that he was played and I think Joyce would be horrified to know she was, potentially, “the other women”
But hopefully everyone will be a little wiser, and a little less flippant, about the whole experience
Becky you sly dog.
How did Becky, the only child with Toedad for a role model, end up learning deceit, trickery, subtlety and romantic manipulation?
…oh yeah wait, those are the closet gay survival skills
Anyway I’m proud of her, being able to hook Joyce up with others when she was so jealous on her first arrival. And so masterfully, too!
They are good skills to have and used wisely can do a lot of good but I think Becky lacks the wisdom (at the moment) to use those skills properly
Ahhhhhhhh now yesterday’s strip makes more sense. This is defs pretty cool of Becky but also Becky nooo Jacob is in a relationship
Yeah, but it’s a relationship with the ENEMY. ;p Sarah is part of her family unit now, so she’s probably on board with tactical strikes on Raidah’s life in general.
Becky, you mad genius.