Hey, Norm the bartender was pretty great! He captured the annoyed bartender stuck listening to other people’s problems really well. It’s not his fault Dr. Becker was just such a conceited jerk no matter how much he mellowed at the end of the series 😉
Oh you mean that other series with the two of them!
I don’t know, my freshmen year I was able to get away from my parents and stop worrying about meeting their expectations and instead be true to myself. It was awesome, I sometimes wish I had actually studied so I didn’t have to go back home.
😐 Lord, why did you have to remind me of the whole Christmas Cake thing, that is one of my least favorite pieces of age-related misogyny because it profanes the absolute good that is cake
It’s a piece of (hopefully outdated) Japanese culture. A Christmas Cake refers to an unmarried woman who is 25 years old or older and doomed to never find a husband. Just like no one wants to buy Christmas cakes past 25-26 of December.
Does anybody (other than the Japanese) actually use the phrase “Christmas cake” to describe this fruit-filled abomination? Everyone I have ever known just calls it fruit cake (as in “nutty as a ___”).
From my watching of anime, the christmas cakes they sell in japan aren’t fruitcakes, they’re ordinary (albeit holiday themed) cakes.
(You see them being sold in anime relatively often because being stuck standing out in the cold selling the things on what is culturally a date night is a good way to mildly inconvenience a character. Perhaps more than mildly depending on what costume they’re stuck wearing.)
Thank you for the explanation! I was utterly confused by the thread. “What- is Raidah saying that she never goes off? That she doesn’t age and is “good” even if you forget how long it’s been? That sounds like the opposite of the point the comments are saying…”
The fruitcake part, huh? This reminds me a page from Manly Guys doing Manly Things where the protagonist stashed some fruitcakes somewhere and came there decades later (him and his army friends are basically Time-travelling SEALs) and the fruitcake was still good… or at least as good as a fruitcake can be.
I remember that! Man, I haven’t read MGDMT for ages.
Personally I always preferred fruitcake to sponge, but that’s because my mother used to bring home these slices of “cake” from school (where she worked). They were so dry and tasteless I had to take a sip of water with every mouthful to get it down. That affected my opinion on sponge for life it seems.
When you need to feel superior to someone, you latch on to whatever you can get. It can start early, worried about whether the kid in the next high chair has more cornflakes than you do.
But, if I were to go back to college
Think what a loser I’d be
I’d walk through the quad, and think, “oh my God…
These kids are so much younger than me…”
Same age, I recently went to a performance on campus with one of my old friends from freshman year. As we got out there was something about the night. Not sure if it was the dark and the rain keeping kids indoors and glossing over any changes, or just how many cold rainy October nights we’d wandered around the cafeteria like that (and we were even walking back towards our old dorm, where she’d parked), but the place felt like it was ours again in a way it hasn’t for 10 years.
I dunno, it occurs to me that anytime we’ve seen Raidah act like an ass, she’s been with her friends. Maybe it’s, like, Mean Girls syndrome where hanging out with them brings out the worst in her?
But yeah, that’s a really rude and unpleasant way to talk about someone.
Exactly! I really liked how non-jealous and self-assured she was before. Wish she didn’t have to treat self-confidence like a zero sum game, that she could just be glad without putting everyone else down.
It does look that way, and it’s continuing a trend I’ve noticed much more with Raidah than other characters- which is how much we know of her is informed by her interactions with others, rather than herself as an individual. I feel like that last panel is perhaps one of the first times we’ve seen her as herself, if that makes sense.
I think she’s gone out of her way to antagonize Sarah alone before. That is, when she wasn’t with Char or Chan. Granted, she and Sarah hate each other but Sarah never went out of her way to insult Sarah.
Not that Sarah is completely innocent in the relationship, just saying that Raidah can be a jerk without the other two around
Sarah’s probably a special case, given their history. It just struck me, the difference between “hanging out with Jake and Joe” Raidah and “hanging out with Char and Chan” Raidah
Hm, I wonder if it’s not just the three feeding off of each other’s worst aspects but also more freedom to be themselves. Ya know, Raidah doesn’t have to “perform” for her friends the same way she does for Jacob.
But yes, you make good points. I think it’ll be interesting to see Raidah’s character develop in future comics
The way their conversation is phrased gives me a distinctly creepy ‘we have a plan and are going to use Jacob to achieve it’ vibe, which I haven’t felt since Getaway was romancing Tailgate. I’m concerned about what they might do to Joyce if she becomes a viable romance option in their eyes.
Yeah poor guy will probably push all of them away with a disgusted face. Wondering if all he was to them was a tool for stabbing each other in the face.
We’ll know if Raidah buys Jacob some fancy press-on nails as a gift, and directs him to Ruth’s room.
Also, now I am totally imagining DoA characters as their Lost Light equivalents. I actually see Joyce as Tailgate (those eyes), Sarah as Cyclonus, and Mike as Whirl.
This is fun! Let’s see, Walky is Rodimus, Becky is Swerve, Danny is Hoist, Carla is Brainstorm, Dorothy is Ultra Magnus, Ruth is Megatron, Billie is Trailcutter, Dina is Rung, Lucy is Nautica, Beef is Ten, Fuckface is Ravage, Sal is Ratchet…
Amber as…. Fort Max? Red Alert? Someone thoroughly traumatized, which I guess casts a wide net in Lost Light.
Joyce and Sarah as Tailgate and Cyclonus is uncanny, though. Ah, roommates where the cheery one with big blue eyes aggressively manages to befriend the grumpy one.
Toedad… Star saber? Maybe since their both religious fanatics?Ethan could be Rewind, Forest Quad is the Vis Vitalid to Read’s Lost Light, I think Malaya would he more like Whirl, though,and Blowjob Cat is obviously Primus
Do sophomores act this above freshman? My friends and I are all transfer students so we start junior year at a four-year and most of us are actually 1-3 years older than the native juniors. So freshman and sophomores are basically the same to us.
It is for some reason impossible for me as a sophomore not to be a little like ‘lmao freshman’ (this was also true in high school) but it’s more ‘I do not envy you dude’ than ‘I’m better because I’m ahead’.
I mean I was literally a freshman, like, what feels like five seconds ago, so.
In the context of this I really don’t get why ‘she’s only a freshman’ is a reason Joyce isn’t a threat. It’s not as if there’s much of a maturity gap between fresh and soph.
You know how Billie started out clinging to her ideas of how college would be a continuation of her high school experiences? I feel like these three are similar, but without the personal growth Billie had forced on her- I feel like they’ve been together in that clique since school, and haven’t broadened beyond it significantly.
I’m basing that on two or three strips though, so we will see!
Plus, a great number of people need some sort of foothold to stand on. Other people’s faces make the best foothold, but as a college sophomore the only faces low enough for you to reach are family and college sophomores, unless there’s a high school very close by that has tons of overlap with the college.
But there is often a serious maturity gap. Not in age, but people grow up a lot in college, much of it in those first years – first time away from home for an extended time, no parents to supervise you, etc. It’s a big change
Raidah, I keep trying to like you, but you make it *very hard* sometimes. Not least for being so damn judgmental and patronizing. Don’t turn into the jealous/clingy girlfriend in this love triangle.
Okay I super don’t like Raidah, but one of the reasons they started dating was a mutual focus on their law studies. I’ve really gotta grant her that one, it’s straight up part of the basis of their whole relationship.
Absolutely. Which is also why I feel like it’s doomed, even if Raidah ends up being much nicer than we’ve seen so far (before today something I very strongly expected). Jacob, it seems, has made a choice with his head, rather than having his head and heart agreeing- and the heart, if not taken into account, has quite the way of fucking shit up.
“and the heart, if not taken into account, has quite the way of fucking shit up.”
true. 🙂
See the line where the sky meets the sea
It calls me
And no one knows how far it goes
If the wind in my sail on the sea stays behind me
One day I’ll know
If I go there’s just no telling how far I’ll go…
I think she’s well within her rights to be jealous? I mean, they just admitted Joyce was flirting with Jacob. That’s a.. pretty valid thing to be jealous about??
Not particularly? Jacob doesn’t seem to notice that Joyce is flirting, and I expect that he’d stay true to Raidah (which Raidah should know). There isn’t much to be jealous about, especially since Joyce clearly appears to be having an internal battle over ethics, and her role in the love triangle might be more vague.
Ehh, Joyce just doesn’t like Raidah because of how she treated Sarah, in part. Plus, Joyce had such a hard time going to Jacob’s church, I think part of her reaction was to the invitation to Raidah’s mosque. I’m not even sure Joyce is cognizant that she was flirting with Jacob. She’s supposed to be setting him up with Sarah, after all.
I’m not convinced that she’s aware she was flirting yet though. I mean, she absolutely was and absolutely felt “caught”, but I’m not sure that she’s aware of WHY. That actually is a hurdle that she hasn’t significantly had experience with yet- as much as her experience is broadening, her ability to acknowledge sexual attraction is still a huge tripping point for her. Her only experience was with a gay guy who was never going to want more with her, resulting in her being “safe”- not from him (or not just from him) but from herself, her sexuality. And even then we’ve seen it be a huge problem to the point of breaking down just for thinking about dude-torso and what it meant to her.
And? Even if Jacob isn’t receptive to the flirtations, Raidah’s perfectly valid to be upset at someone flirting with him despite clearly knowing her as his girlfriend.
If yesterday is anything to go by, I think Joyce forgot Raidah was Jacob’s boyfriend. And I suppose I have to admit that Raidah has good reason to have righteous anger, I’m just still pissed off at how she writes Joyce off.
What else can she be? The understanding one who steps aside so the protagonist gets her dream guy?
Seriously, this isn’t “the jealous/clingy girlfriend”, this is “has correctly identified a threat to their relationship”. Joyce is not only obviously attracted and flirty, but she’s explicitly said she wants to break them up.
It’s actually kind of an interesting twist on the standard love triangle. The protagonist is really the villain here. I like Joyce and have very strong reservations about Raidah, but Joyce is completely in the wrong here.
Yeah, Joyce is stepping right into a well-developed relationship, and she doesn’t belong there. I don’t think Raidah should give up any ground, but I don’t like her sense of insecurity and growing sense of “I must stop her.” Jacob seems oblivious to Joyce’s flirting, and, even if he wasn’t, I feel like he’d be the kind of person to stay true to Raidah. So Raidah’s taking up arms seems kind of pointless to me.
“Oblivious to” isn’t the same as “unaffected by”. It could simply be denial.
I don’t think Jacob would cheat, but if he does fall for Joyce that’s going to screw up their relationship.
What do you do in this kind of situation? Just let the flirtation go on until it comes to a head?
It just feels like Raidah is setting up a situation that will lead to a lot of confrontations. She could ultimately push Joyce away from Jacob, but it could do a hell of a lot of damage for the three of them.
And I’d say a stopping point is about when there’s definite and mutual flirting going on, because that raises a lot of red flags. I’m just not seeing that here.
And there it is! The moment when doubt was seeded within Raidah’s heart, growing until it consumed her in a jealousy-fueled rage that killed every main character in the comic (or just Mary).
First, it is funny. Is Radiator a character, like in Transformer or.somewhere? (out of my element here.)
Second, I can only now think of an anthropomorphic piece of radiatori pasta.
But seriously, Joyce is “cleaned up ” here, and as noted, to great effect. Sarah has gone tank-top and without her bandanna when she wants to flirt with Jacob,which was a small alteration with big change.
Have we seen Raidah dressed at her “impress a guy” level?
Also, do her friends draw Raidah too much into the visual-oriented thing here? The chemistry was pretty evident with JoyCob.
I’m glad Raidah isn’t jealous over Joyce and Jacob, but I’m not pleased with her reasoning. “She’s ridiculous, she’s a child” Joyce is only a year younger. And if she’s a nobody, why has she been in the news? If anything, Joyce might be a VERY recognizable figure on campus by now. She punched an intolerant attempted kidnapper and possible school shooter in the FACE. I’m glad for her friend pointing out that, if Joyce is naught but a child, then so too is Jacob. I could see Raidah and Jacob remaining good friends because she seems like a good influence on him so long as Sarah isn’t involved. But otherwise, I’m not seeing any romance here.
You forgot that she’s also the person who put the highly visible/recognizable scar on the rapist. Her role in both were played down but when someone does enough high profile stuff people start learning your name wether the news paper club writes it or not.
He didn’t know Sarah and Raidah’s past til the party, and considering they’re all taking pre-law it’d have likely spread like gossip if he was in the same year.
It would depend on how much overlap there was in the classes they were taking at that point– the first year there might not have been as much. And depends on the size of the program, and how involved in gossip Jacob was. Basically, if they were all in the same year, it still would be totally possible for him not to know about past connections.
Actually something I’m a little curious about, when is Jacob going to hear Sarah’s side of the story about her blood feud with Raifah? Cause Raidah’s story is obviously slanted in her (or at least against Sarah’s) favor, so when will jacob get the other half?
His roommate is Ethan. Would he be rooming with a random freshman if he were a sophomore? Although that did happen to me. My frosh year roommate and I decided not to room together the next year, and I got last pick in the dorm room lottery.
Then again, Jacob is in a class with Sarah, so maybe he is a sophomore and the two Plastics are merely referring to his seeming innocence.
“Would he be rooming with a random freshman if he were a sophomore?”
Joyce and Sarah, though we have Sarah’s backstory as a factor. Still, Jacob has his own yet-unrevealed backstory. And like you said, it does happen.
As far as classes, I took a couple classes with juniors and seniors my freshman year…which means they took classes with a freshman, so really, year means pretty little in a lot of college courses. I do think them having class together influenced my assumption, but it really doesn’t mean anything.
Roz is almost certainly a freshman, given that she’s in the same basic gender studies class as a bunch of other freshman characters: Joyce, Dorothy, Joe, Walky, etc.
that logic only works if gender studies is a required 1st-year course, which seems unlikely? (although it would explain joe and walky being there – I’d expect them to delay it or not take it at all if they could)
It’s possible Roz isn’t a freshman, but there’s no evidence for it. We’re guessing based on clues. Every else we know of it that class is a freshman (though there are nameless students who could be seniors). It wouldn’t be contradictory if Willis established her as a sophomore, but the hints point at her being frosh.
Actually, I think they do more than hint. In the story arc where she was competing with Dorothy for RA, it was strongly implied she was also a freshman – Dorothy said she’d checked with the sophomores and they weren’t interested.
I don’t agree. She seemed steady enough saying it. It’s possible that she felt confident in saying it because there was no supposed competition in view. Then again, she didn’t seem to view Joyce as potential “competition” until her friends said something, so maybe it was just a question of being away from them.
Oh, I think she clearly saw Joyce as a threat last strip. Her comments here read more as denial.
I think there have been some hints of it previously as well. Subtle and easily written off as her antipathy to Sarah, but that could be viewed as her trying to push Jacob away from her. Then Joyce got involved and Jakes was all impressed by her, so she needs to undermine her as well.
Huh, guess she’s evil after all.
Darn, I wanted a very sympathetic antagonist, I like when you can argue just as strongly for Sarah or Raidah.
Although I guess they’re both being jerks in this love triangle, so.
Good. I was worried that, since I haven’t gone back and archive binged in a while that I might just hate Raidah because Sarah hates her and Sarah is one of the main characters, but nope, she’s just terrible.
I find myself wondering if women actually say things like “sniffin’ around your dude”. It may be a result of my personal bias and the kind of women I typically associate with, but that sounds like the kind of of absurdly ignorant thing I’d be more likely to attribute to men’s “locker room talk” than women speaking seriously about relationship concerns (even college age women).
Remember that they are just sophomores. They’re acting out how they think women act as much as anything. That friend may have gotten the phrase out of a Hollywood movie or some daytime soap probably written by dudes who heard it in their locker-room.
I love the Doubleclicks like I love a burrito. (Even though I think Angela must have been spying on me and my last romantic interest when she wrote “Will They or Won’t They?”)
The Dylan lyric “I’m younger than that now” is just such a cliched response to I-used-to-think-I-was-old-but-NOW that it’s almost a “FIRST” comment.
Meh, I loathe Raidah, but I actually think Joyce is being a bongo here. She knows Jacob has a girlfriend and she’s acting like a thot. Raidah’s friends, whom I also loathe because Sarah is my favorite character, just might be looking out for her. Interfaith relationships, esp. between people who are as into their faith as Jacob and Raidah seem to be, can be hard as hell. I really hope Joyce backs off and finds a dude of her own.
She’s flirting with a guy she knows has a girlfriend. I’m not sure where that;’s appropriate anywhere. Also she’s actively trying to break them up and is just now realizing she has a thing for him.
I don’t think she realises how much she’s been flirting- or if she does it’s just happened. I mean, her behaviour is inappropriate but at the time she wasn’t aware of it- beyond her trying to sell him on Sarah’s charms.
And with the lack of self-awareness it’s definitely a different story. Most of her interactions haven’t consciously been to undermine their relationship. That intent is absolutely skeevy and disgusting (and feels so very teenagery) but the rest has been fairly innocent.
I’m not saying it’s not inappropriate, but I don’t feel her actions are quite as severe as many other commenters seem to feel when considering the whole picture.
Calling Joyce a hoe (thot – that hoe over there) is a tad extreme. She’s being slightly flirty, because their chemistry is really good together, not because she’s actively tried to get him to bed. Not like my former fiance whose “natural flirtyness” got me a 10 page skypelog from a random dude when his ex’s skype logged onto his comp and I saw my fiance and one of our in-common female friends discuss that she was willing to anal sex and her blog said how much she desired him…
If Jacob would decide to cheat, it’s on him, nobody else. He can be tempted all you want, it’ll still be on him if he does something that isnt in agreement with his relationship with Raidah. If he chooses to break up with Raidah to be with Joyce, that is his decision.
[For more projection] said ex fiance a few months later emotionally forced me into a threesome with his best friend (female). A week later de broke up with me, insisted it had nothing to do with her. Three weeks after that, she moved in with him, and on new year three months later, they were engaged.
So like, i really know what its like, benig in Raidah’s shoes in this scenario. But it’s still on your partner if they are unfaithful. And personally, what hurt me the most was the dishonesty over the whole thing. I would have managed that breakup much better if he had told me straight on that he developed feelings for his best friend, instead of insisting that there was nothing going on, and once he came clean about it and i said i saw that comming he was flabbergast because to him it was lightning from a clear sky that he developed this attraction…
Sure its on Jacob if he cheats and/or breaks up with Raidah but its still a shitty thing to put temptation into someones path that otherwise wouldn’t be there
I had no idea what that meant- I wondered if it was a filter similar to bongo or something. I agree, that’s a pretty gross phrase. It makes me feel like I need a shower.
So does Raidah’s confidence and not-jealousy come from a superiority complex? Welp, you know what a superiority complex is an alternation of…
Also those two are the worst kind of womenfriends that nobody needs.
All this hate for Raidah, could be worse though like imagine if she was deliberately trying to break up a relationship just so her friend could have a chance
It is nicely done, isn’t it.
Joyce is clearly in the wrong in this little love triangle (rectangle?). Joyce is also the protagonist and clearly the nicer character and generally better person.
I’m very curious to see how it turns out.
As much as I actually like Joyce and Jacob together, I don’t want this to work out. Joyce shouldn’t be rewarded for what she’s doing here.
I trust Willis to handle this well.
Personally I want Joyce to have a huge “holy crap what I’m doing is awful” moment, and for her to have to deal with the guilt of that- and THEN for her and Jacob to get together. You’re right in that she shouldn’t be rewarded for the skullduggery, but I’m okay with her being rewarded for a genuine repentance of her underhanded behaviour.
(Also talking about Joyce having underhanded behaviour is weirrrrd.)
Or you know, you could imagine someone trying to completely poison your friendship with someone by bringing up an event you agreed was resolved because it reflects them negatively. You know, like how Raidah accepted Sarah’s apology for punching her then still later used it to try to influence Jacob’s opinion (you either forgive someone or you don’t, you can’t have it both ways!). And still insults her to his face or implies negative things to his face about her even though he is friends with her and it makes him uncomfortable like calling Sarah human sandpaper.
Like, Raidah is as guilty of trying to influence his decisions of his other relationships outside of their romantic one. And now she is NOT communicating her feelings to Jacob after purposely making Joyce feel uncomfortable and to make herself feel more comfortable is undermining Joyce as a person based on being homeschooled, being a freshman; things which don’t actually reflect on her character at all.
Oh yeah. Raidah’s definitely been actively trying to undermine that friendship. There’s a LOT of bad blood there though- I don’t blame her for having extremely strong feelings with regards to Sarah, but dragging that into Jacob’s relationship with her is problematic.
I blame her for having extremely strong feeling with regards to Sarah, because her reactions are not remotely on the level of what “my friend’s parent pulled them out of school” merits, EVEN IF you give Raidah the full benefit of assuming that Sarah did it entirely selfishly. There is nothing stopping Dana coming back when she’s got her shit together again, Raidah’s actions are more on the level of if Dana had actually gotten kicked out.
iirc, there was some issue of Dana’s parents being unsafe too. that makes it more understandable that Raidah was upset. (I still don’t like or trust her)
There is an assumption that Dana’s father is unsafe based on why the F would Raidah not have moved on yet otherwise.
Unless Sarah has bean told Dana’s father is unsafe in front of Raidah, and Raidah has been offering to contribute time to the help Dana get through her issues project Raidah is still over reacting.
Has “hella” really made it to the Midwest, to the point where it can be used unironically? Last I knew, even SoCal people regarded it as a NoCal regionalism.
I do sometimes use “wicked” as an intensifier, but when I do the words following it have to be spoken in a fake Boston accent.
As a Midwesterner: sort of. It’s not widely used but the recent influx of Midwesterners taking parts from almost every other region of the US has led to the usage of the term in an unironic fashion at times.
Umm…I live in Michigan and used the word “hella” extensively like…three years ago. I actually thought it was sort of funny in this strip if anything because I see it as becoming less prominent already. But yeah, it’s used.
My first encounter with ‘hella’ was from a Michigan-born friend, almost 20 years ago. (Think she might have picked it up from the South Park episode Tarmaniel mentioned.)
It’s getting publicity in some gaming circles these days because of the game Life is Strange, which is set in a fictitious Oregon town in 2013. One of the main characters, Chloe Price, says hella a lot.
I misread that as “fictional Oregon town of 2013”. I got very confused.
I didn’t think Life Is Strange has that much of an impact? But it’d be nice if I was wrong, I’ve heard good things about it.
This is a puzzle for me: why is “Hella Nice” not the title? Sure, maybe “Fool” has some sort of artistic meaning, where here it’s not just a word said but represents the characters’ actions, etc., whatever. But I mean, Galasso and Yus aren’t even here, this is just false advertising.
I love the fact that the comment section has moved from using the term for female dogs as an insult to “percussive instruments”. No sarcasm, that just made me feel really pleased.
Though I’m sure some of it is intentional, bongo is the censored version of the term for female dogs, as the original word was abused viciously in past comments.
yes, that’s why some of us switched to saying “percussion instrument”, since it’s clearly intentional *and* a reminder of the hilarious bongo filter. 🙂 I think jason was aware of all that, it just gets confusing talking about filters.
Minor sins? She’s been bullying Sarah for a year, to the point of trying to keep her isolated by driving away new friends. She was rude to Dinah and talked down to her.
Like that may not be the stuff of evil but she’s nowhere near moral superiority. Joyce is doing something wrong but she’s doing it to help someone she cares about. Joyce is a good person doing a bad thing while Raidah is currently neutral with a history of bad.
Bullying Sarah for year is a bit otp don’t you think, they’ve had less than a handful of interactions and as for Joyce a bad thing is still a bad thing no matter the intentions of the person
and being how quickly she removed her hand when Raidah appeared I’d suggest Joyce knows that as well
It seemed pretty clearly implied that Raidah’s treatment of Sarah began when Dana got sent home during the previous school year. Not just last month when the semester began.
Well sure but I’m meaning the amount of interactions we’ve seen this year. It hasn’t been many and it seems like (to me anyway) theres more of an attempt to avoid each other than going out of their way to antagonize each other
Active and malicious, yes. Not for a year, though. I don’t think it’s clear when everything falls apart with Dana but I took it to be late in the academic year.
I might be missing some information, though.
But I do feel like Raidah sees herself as justified. Sarah- from her perspective- completely screwed over her best friend, simply because she was fed up of her mourning, and possibly got her sent back to a negative family environment. We know there’s a lot more to it than that, but Raidah’s coming at it as Dana’s friend, feeling betrayed for her. Does that excuse it? Hell no. But I feel it makes it more understandable and renders Raidah less of a villain and more of a character of depth- which she is, because Willis.
Raidah goes out of her way to isolate Sarah and put her down. Obviously we haven’t seen the worst of it because it started last term after Dana was send home.
I won’t count to her sins that she didn’t help Dana and initially fell for her narrative of “everything’s ok”, because druggies do that and you want to believe them.
But I definitely count to her sins that she uses her influence to turn other people against Sarah.
And as for Joyce, sorry, no she’s not busy with the narrative of “let’s break up Raidah’s relationship” but with “get Sarah together with Jacob, I thought they were perfect for each other when I first saw him” (which was before Raidah and sort of a knee-jerked idea in that context, but still). Doesn’t count as a sin in my book.
And her having fallen for him herself also is not a sin.
Without a dramatic back story – which she might have and we don’t know about – Raidah is a bully who goes after the weak, is condescending as hell (as seen in this strip again) and hasn’t shown any redeeming quality yet.
“let’s break up Raidah’s relationship” is exactly what shes thing, she wants Jacob with Sarah so Jacob and Raidahs relationship has to end so yes it is a shitty thing Joyce is doing, she might think its a shitty thing, she might only be thinking of helping Sarah but its still a shitty thing to do to want to break up a relationship
How would you feel if Raidah decided that one of her friends would be perfect for Becky and so went about trying to Becky and Dina up just so Becky could be available for her friend
Honestly? I’d laugh. And, Dina and Becky would laugh too, and stay together.
But also, it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Becky and Dina are head over heels for each other, AND we’ve seen them not only act in each other’s best interests, but also be generally kind and generous to those around them.
Sympathizing with a character (Sarah) who wants to punish a girl who:
1. was callous towards Dana
2. led a harassment campaign against Sarah for a semester simply because she tried to get Dana help
3. Mocked Dina
4. Has a close friend who apparently so routinely uses ableist slurs that she has to remind herself not to “in public”
5. Thinks herself superior to freshman, people who have “bad” clothes, people who aren’t ambitious…er, just everyone, essentially…
6. Finds her own boyfriend childish and…
7. is now going back on her previous assertion that she trusts Jacob enough to let him have female friends…
…yeah, I’d want to punish her too. And, sure, revenge is never wise. It’s definitely going to bite Sarah in the butt (Joyce too, probably).
But, also? If someone is going to bully and harass and judge and snark across the board, eventually that person is going to bully the wrong person. Someone who’s had enough. And then, they’re going to get their comeuppance.
The only way Sarah’s revenge plan would work would be if Jacob genuinely believes that Joyce would be a better girlfriend than Raidah. He may well come to that conclusion because he realizes how mean Raidah is to people who aren’t him. He might realize that he just feels more strongly for Joyce than for Raidah. And if that happens? He is a human being with agency and autonomy, and he gets to make that choice. Sarah’s revenge doesn’t work without Jacob’s consent; if his relationship is genuinely great, he won’t give it.
So that’s the main difference. Becky would never succumb to a revenge scheme that involved her dumping Dina, because she and Dina have a wonderful relationship. That’s why that kind of revenge attempt would be laughable.
The fact that Sarah’s revenge scheme might actually work? That’s what makes it poetic. Ultimately, the final domino would have to be tipped by Jacob, something that will only happen when Raidah’s own personality flaws push him to it.
Honestly, whether it works or not, it’s still a shitty thing to try and do. Also, while Jacob can consent to go out with Joyce, if he doesn’t end his relationship with Raidah first, he’s the one being the shitheel.
Exactly. Trying to tempt someone into breaking up is a lousy thing to do, pretty much regardless of what you think of their partner. If you’re friends and you really think their partner is awful or abusive, trying to talk them into getting out is reasonable, but trying to seduce them into it still isn’t.
It’s all more complicated than Indoor Cat paints it: It’s quite possible to have chemistry/attraction with someone else even if your relationship is going well. Encouraging this, perhaps by spending lots of casual flirty time with them, even with no bad intentions can easily lead to something that feels more serious.
@thejeff — I think we might actually just have a fundamental disagreement about ethics and romance. I don’t believe that trying to break up a relationship that’s in it’s early stages is “shitty” or “lousy;” it feels morally neutral to me.
I actually just went to a wedding recently, where my close friend married her boyfriend of six years. This friend was previously dating her now-husband’s best friend. They were dating for about a month and a half, while my friend and her now-husband were hanging out socially, in groups and occasionally one-on-one. Unbeknownst to her, he had a crush on her. Eventually, he wrote her a letter explaining how he felt about her. In the letter, he said that he knows he’s asking her to break up with her boyfriend for him, and he would understand if she is angry at him enough for asking that she didn’t ever want to hang out with him again, but he’d regret forever if he didn’t tell her.
She dumped her then-boyfriend that same weekend, and six years later they’re on a honeymoon to Japan and are going to make a family together.
Her boyfriend at the time got over it, and he now lives in a different city in the same state. When he’s back in town, we all hang out still and he has as good a time as anyone.
Now, could it have gone in the opposite way? Sure. That would’ve been really awkward. But there are a hierarchy of ethical values, and to me, the values of honesty and respecting other people’s freedoms and creating opportunities for joy are SO much more important than loyalty. The number of loving relationships I know of that began when someone had feelings for someone currently in a relationship is pretty high. Cheating is destructive, but asking someone out if they’re dating someone else is ethically fine. It’s taking a big risk! But the asker risks their own pride, not some valuable external thing*.
Joyce is not quite in the same boat. She is not straightforwardly, honestly asking Jacob to break up with Raidah. Mainly because she hasn’t admitted to herself yet that she even wants to be Jacob’s girlfriend. But if she does, I firmly believe that’s a morally ok thing to do. Seems like a lot of people might agree to disagree here, though.
*the ONLY exception is if the person has children with their current S/O, because children are vulnerable and lack the agency adults have in their own lives, so in that case the highest ethic is to protect their wellbeing
Trying to punish someone by stealing their boyfriend is a super shitty thing to do, because there’s not just one person being affected by that, but two.
Jacob is not a toy to be taken away. He is a person with his own agency, thoughts, and feelings. It’s extremely gross of Sarah, Joyce, et. all to ignore all that just to get back at Raidah.
“He is a person with his own agency, thoughts, and feelings.” It’s weird how we both have the same observation, but very different conclusions. Jacob has agency! That means he should absolutely be given the knowledge to make the best decisions for himself. He should be allowed to know that Joyce has feelings for him as well as Raidah, if only so he can freely *choose* which relationship is best for him, rather than defaulting to the one he’s already in.
“The only way Sarah’s revenge plan would work would be if Jacob genuinely believes that Joyce would be a better girlfriend than Raidah. ”
um. nooooo. there are so many ways for this to explode horribly for everyone.
And it’s *very* unfair to assume Jacob has magical perfect willpower. Add in his Shortpacked history, and it’s both unfair and unlikely.
“Sarah’s revenge doesn’t work without Jacob’s consent”
and that’s wrong on *two* levels – the issue of willpower above, plus the fact that a relationship requires two people, and jacob is only one of them. Even if Jacob makes his will save, Raidah might not believe him.
Seems like you missed my point.
“I want Sarah and Jacob become a couple because I think they would be great together” is not a revenge story, but a looking out for the wellbeing of a good friend story. The point is not making Raidah unhappy but making Sarah happy. Those are two different motivations for maybe doing the same thing, but Joyce being out to hurt someone looks totally different.
yes. And though motivation doesn’t necessarily exempt from blame for consequences, I do not see why Joyce should be criticized for a narrative that’s not hers, a motivation that’s not hers.
(Also, losing a lover of three weeks is much to small a revenge on a bully, so it strikes me as rather ridiculous how much this heats up the discussion.)
It doesn’t matter how long they’ve been dating, trying to break up their relationship is incredibly disrespectful to both parties.
Also, Jacob is a person. He’s not an object to be taken away from an unruly child. Everyone’s attitude in this completely disregards his agency and feelings.
There is something I seriously don’t get here.
They are basicly teens whose average relationship lasts half a year if they are lucky.
No one is not putting down Raidha, even though certain of her behaviors provide ample material. Joyce was flirting with Jacob and didn’t realize it while trying to show up Sarah in a favorable light.
There are no dirty tricks involved. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be ok.
“They are basicly teens whose average relationship lasts half a year if they are lucky.”
So that’s all right then?
“There are no dirty tricks involved. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be ok.”
Sarah sent Joyce out to wreck the relationship and Joyce is fully aware that Jacob and Raidah have to break up if Jacob is to be with Sarah, that’s why its shitty behaviour
It’s not okay because manipulating someone is always super shitty? And going to hang out with someone, with the explicit intention of trying to sway them to break up with their current significant other to date your friend, is very manipulative. And, again, let me reiterate: no one here is giving a shit about Jacob’s agency. That’s why it’s not okay.
Anything overdone is harmful, and it was overdone to the point where Sarah was being affected. Additionally, IIRC, there was some escalating to harder drugs or at least Sarah was afraid that was happening. And Sarah herself was being effected by, yes, Dana’s extremely heavy drug use.
This drives me bonkers. ‘It’s just weed’ does not mean it’s not drug abuse, does not mean it’s not harmful, does not mean Dana didn’t have a serious and legitimate problem.
Sarah seems more worried that the weed wasn’t helping as much anymore (hence increased usage) and that Dana would end up committing suicide if it stopped helping completely.
Yeah, I think Willis wrote too hateable a character for my rational person brain to overtake my petty desire to see her get wrecked. I’m not that good a person, petty revenge is delicious.
Man, most of my classes for my major aren’t segregated by year, so sometimes I look at the freshman and their baby faces and think “wow, was I that young?” and then sometimes I’m like “Wait, you’re a freshman, you don’t look like one?!”
Age is weird in college and we’re all actually children. Even as a senior, I am a child. …It kinda trips me out realizing that I was in high school? Or freshman year? when I started reading DoA, and now I’m older than them. Are any of them 21 yet? I can’t be older than Sarah. I don’t feel older than Sarah. In my head I’m still Joyce.
I started reading Shortpacked…hmm, junior year of high school? I’m almost certain I remember reading it in the computer lab where I had my “intro to coding” class (where we learned Visual Basic from a textbook and literally almost nothing else)
That was 2007
…god, the passage of time is horrifying. That was a decade ago.
I remember being mad about the ending to It’s Walky being behind a paywall. I like to think it was because I was too young to have a credit card, and not because “information wants to be freeeeee” 😉
… wait… VB in *2007*? dear god. I’d expect them to have moved on to Java by then.
my high school switched from turbo pascal to c++ the year I took my first programming class. 🙂 that was… quite a few years earlier… back when midi music on websites was still a thing 🙂
Yeah, I don’t think “saving it for marriage” ever came up from Jacob.
Apparently they’re “fooling around”, whatever that translates to exactly.
I think this is the first time we’ve seen Jacob directly suggest anything sexual. I wonder if it means anything that he does so right after spending the morning flirting with Joyce?
I like Chanise. She lets Charlotte carry the bulk of the argument but at the end she steps in with a short, pithy observation that changes Raidah’s worldview.
“Fool around”? Is the implication that he and Raidah are so serious that Jacob lost his virginity to her, or is that supposed to be a euphemism for something else?
In this scenario, I think that ‘fool around’ is ‘have fun and do inconsequential non-class related things’.
This potentially leads us to an insight as to where the Joyce-Jacob-Raidah triangle may go and what Raidah may need to do. If ‘having a good time, relaxing and having fun’ is something that Jacob associates with Joyce, it will undermine his relationship with Raidah pretty quickly. I’ve got a horrible feeling that Raidah may over-compensate either by persecuting Joyce or by trying to reinvent herself as a happy-go-lucky good-time girl.
I’m not at all sure Jacob was a virgin. He’s talked about wanting a serious relationship, not just casual sex, but he’s also talked about having girlfriends – some of which may have qualified as “serious”, or he may have developed this policy after some less serious, but sexual relationships.
I call all fictional characters younger than me babies or children (I’m 21) but that’s a) affectionately, b) not hurting anybody and c) a joke. Don’t be shitty, Raidah.
I was initially wondering what kinds of names “Chan” and “Char” were. When I went back to earlier strips they introduced themselves and “Chanise” and “Charlotte”, which are far more reasonable names.
I have a friend called Kim- as in that’s her legal first name, which is pretty uncommon here, to the point where she has trouble with people assuming it’s short for Kimberly.
And I had a stepbrother who chose with his partner to call their daughter Lottie. Again- that as a name is uncommon, rather than it being a nickname of Charlotte.
That’s late 80s and early 00s respectively. So I guess it’s still a thing for some people?
Oh, yeah, but people are always gonna buck general naming trends. And yeah, I’ve known a girl called Tasha who hated when people tried to call her Natasha when they were trying to be formal (which usually translated to condescending or lecturing).
Kim is a legit name by any standard, though where I’m from it’s considered a name for boys. I’d also say Lottie is legit, though Lotte would be far more common, and yes it is a variation of Charlotte.
“Char” and “Chan” make me think of burnt food and 4chan respectively, though.
This is the point when Raidah jumps from being just a somewhat-unpleasant person to being an out-and-out antagonist. Of course, someone who is evidently motivated primarily by selfish feelings was always going to easily skip into that category.
Final Panel Radiah: Well shit, that creates creepy implications about the phrasing of my words in my mind. Note to self, be a little less melodramatic.
I get Raidah wondering if Jacob is temptable, if for all his friendly seriousness (no wild drunkfests or sleazy hookups AFAIK, wears a suit to church every Sunday) if he is to be this way for all his college career.
She was a frosh last year and has seen many people change from Move In Day to start of sophomore year.
(Disclaimer: When I was 26 I met my wife, who was 35. That was the last century. We will tease each other about certain chronological facts such as “When I graduated college, you weren’t in high school yet.”)
it’s not meant literally; more as a joke. She called Joyce a child, and Jacob is joyce’s age, so one could argue she called Jacob a child, and only pedophiles and children date children. 🙂
“Homeschooled nobody” descriptor sounds like it’s coming from the same person who doesn’t understand how compelling an achievement Joyce’s slugging Toedad is.
I’ll figure that’s not “Top of the world, Ma!”, until shown otherwise.
More about Jacob’s family is forthcoming, I hope. After some of the parents we saw on Freshman Family Weekend (Danny’s, Walky & Sal’s, Joyce’s mom, Ethan’s, to say the least), it’d be nice to find out who raised how Jacob got to be this nice, put-together, and friendly fellow.
I hope for more Jacob in general. I actually really like this incarnation of him, and I adore the fact that he and Joyce can banter the way they do about religion. It’s utterly adorable.
Uh oh. Not so above jealousy after all, are we Raidah?
Good thing Joyce has her friends.
I mean, this *could* potentially be salvaged. Joyce needs to abandon her plan to break these two up and rein in her crush, and Raidah must not do anything rash.
But since this comic still isn’t called “smarting of age”…
This kinda gives me the vibes that previous classism against Sarah wasn’t a one-time thing, but she generally categorize well-off people as good, and people of lesser background as a lower brand than herself.
Her argument for why Joyce isn’t a threat isn’t primarily that she’s a year younger, but because she isn’t pre-law, and she’s homeschooled. She sees Joyce as uncultured, and therefore beneath Jacob and herself. She doesn’t see Joyce kindness to her friends or her courage to stand up against bullying authority figures as traits that is of equal quality, because they won’t land you a good job and a good income.
Makes me think she and Jacob might break up over Joyce, but not in the sense that he feels attraction to Joyce, but rather that Jacob sees this kind of classism as a deal breaker for if Raidah is a good person that he wants to be with.
Oddly enough Raidah is presented very similarly here to the Walkyverse version of Sarah but without the semi-neurotic “I have to do this bad thing! It’s my social and professional role!” excuses.
Panel 1: It’s interesting here that Jacob is feeling like “fooling around” however he defines that (as we know that he gets worried about the intensity of certain types of feelings and isn’t fully sure what he wants to do or not do) right after a long flirting session with Joyce. So I suspect his subconscious is catching on even if his conscious brain is still in the weeds on Joyce Brown (ELEVATOR OPERATOR: Joyce S. Brown).
And Raidah here… oh dear. Like, we have known for a bit about Raidah’s flaws. Like she was a bully who has utterly refused to hear Sarah’s perspective and reasoning and tormented her for a period of time (which, even if your friend is in a bad spot, tormenting the person who put them there in a panic isn’t really going to help anyone).
Plus, Raidah has some massive privilege blinders, whether it be her classism or patronizing ableism as seen when she tried to interact with Dina as if she was an ignorant child, which has also wrapped into her interactions with Sarah (both not respecting the precarious financial position Sarah was in and not respecting that Sarah might have had her own things going on that caring for Dana was exacerbating).
And here… like, dude, no. Bringing up family members to guilt people into doing things is not a cool thing to do, especially something like this where it seems like Jacob has a little bit of an inferiority complex with regards to his brother.
And like, it’s an unnecessary dig. Like, Jacob’s pretty chill, it would have been easy to say “Sorry, not really feeling it, besides you were saying you had a lot of homework and that’s probably more important”.
Like, yes, coming up with the perfect words in the moment is hard and I don’t blame Raidah for being a kid who’s screwing up, but it’s the type of screw-up that raises red flags for me. Like, it’s such a sideways way to approach this especially when paired with the stirrings of jealousy we start to see in later panels.
Panels 3-5: Bad friends can sometimes make you a worse person. And here, Char embodies that to a T here in stirring the pot of jealousy and making it about defending the territory of “your man” and poking the bear further about how cute she was.
Like, ew, no, jealousy is a complex feeling for many and it doesn’t need help from shitty friends who want to stir up drama and conflict. And we see the negative effect almost immediately. Raidah immediately goes on the defensive and does so in an intensely classist fashion, slamming Joyce essentially for being poorly educated which is what?*
*Like, seriously, if you really wanted to knock Joyce, there’s so many better options that wouldn’t immediately paint you as a classist piece of shit. Especially as it almost immediately backfires. Like, if you’re slamming someone for having “bad breeding” but they are in exactly the same school that you are, what does that say about you who had every advantage in the world, then it invites immediate comparison in a way that will make you even more defensive.
And it’s just plain shitty. Classism is shitty and it’s especially shitty in our broken economic system where the rich have drained the lifeblood of everyone else and is straight up trying to condemn the poor to death where it can. And the fact that Raidah immediately went there tells you a lot about her values. That she values wealth and “good breeding” over other qualities and immediately looks down on those without the luck to be born into economically privileged families.
Panel 5: And way to paint yourself into a corner of feeling like a pedophile there Raidah.
Now, it’ll be interesting to see where this goes, whether Raidah recognizes her negative traits and seeks to correct them (as she did with recognizing her bullying behavior with Sarah and ending it) or if she continues to show more and more of her flaws as she feels more defensive, jealous, and under attack.
I was definitely wondering about that with Jacob. I wonder if Raidah caught the same thing.
Raidah’s clearly heading off in nasty directions with her response, but I’m not sure the initial reaction is really a bad thing. Joyce really is the one out of line here. Some kind of defensive reaction to someone trying to break up your relationship seems appropriate.
I’ve had someone trying to break up my relationship. I reacted to it by telling my partner “So and so is trying to break up our relationship” and we had a nice conversation about how I had nothing to fear. That’s how a *healthy* relationship handles that kind of threat. Raidah apparently isn’t comfortable enough with Jacob to say “And this thing is making me nervous.”
Jacob did mention that he had experienced jealous ex-girlfriends before. And since he still seems to be oblivious, there’s a chance that if Raidah tells him what’s going on, he thinks she’s just another jealous girlfriend.
Not that I don’t think that’s the right thing to do, mind. Honesty from any of the people involved in this situation would clear the whole thing up pretty quickly. I can just see it going the other way, for drama.
Given how Jacob is going off to church and lunch with a girl who’s blatantly crushing on him and may be reciprocating the flirtation, even if he’s pretty much oblivious to it, those jealous girlfriends may have had a point.
If he has a habit of close flirty friendships with girls who have crushes on him those can easily turn romantic, even with no bad intent.
I still don’t see all the hatred for Raidah outside her mean comments to Dina. All of her other faults could easily be applied to some other member of the main cast, but it’s okay for the character we like to be bad because we like them. It just just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Not saying the girl is perfect, but neither is any member of the cast. Just seems strange that everything Raidah does is interpreted as inherently evil or completely irredeemable. I could be eating my words in a couple weeks, but I just wanted to express that.
No you’re not wrong. Raidah bringing up Jacobs brother is assumed to be a negative whereas it could just as easily been a motivator.
We know Jacob wants to become successful and he must have brought up his brother to Raidah and now Raidahs helping Jacob towards his goal and this is a bad thing?
Also everyone seems to be forgetting that Raidah has just seen a cute girl (no matter what Raidah thinks she does have eyes) flirting with her boyfriend and yet Raidahs getting scorn for how shes reacting?
Bringing up his brother definitely IS intended as a motivator. That doesn’t make it an inherently good thing, and a lot of people see it as bad way to try and motivate someone.
And most people aren’t blaming Raidah for feeling hostile towards Joyce. They’re blaming her for expressing that through classist snobbery
I take it (until further evidence is submitted) that she is being supportive and that it is what Jacob wants as he doesn’t fight it at all and the whole “eyes on the prize” suggests to me that its something they’ve both discussed
From this it seems like Jacob/Dorothy would be a better match
Panel 1 to me actually felt more like some kind of inside joke on both sides? Hard to say without hearing tone, but that’s how it read to me
Panels 3-5: Absolutely yes, to the point that it makes me wonder how much of what we see negative of Raidah is actually Chan & Char’s influence. For all that Raidah is presented (at least to us readers) as the figurehead and spokesperson of the trio, it seems like whenever Chan or Char speaks up, Raidah is mild in comparison. Admittedly we don’t exactly have a large pool of examples of Chan or Char speaking up.
I don’t think Raidah will see her negative traits. Not because of any dislike I have for Raidah, just experience with this personality type. They never let go of the view that they are right, and they never forgive a perceived wrong.
Also my last word on Raidah is whatever else you feel about her, it’s becoming increasingly likely that Sarah diming on Dana was an excuse for her to be who she really is, whatever that is. Whether she’s more an excuse than a loss has yet to be scientifically proven.
But I’m gonna go ahead and hypothesize she’s always been a piece of shit who thinks she’s above consequences.
And on a more selfish note, I’m really hoping she isn’t actually Arab, because I’d rather she not be the only representative of my ethnicity in the active student cast (I don’t think Asma counts). Though I’d be the first to admit there are way too many Raidahs in my community thanks to the shitty way the bougeoise raise their kids in the Middle East.
Nash might not be Arab or Muslim. She might be! Do we know her full name / surname? So far we’re just going based on skin tone and headdress (unless she’s in Shortpacked, which I’ve never read). I totally bombed the “Can you tell this person’s religion by their religious clothing?” quiz, so I’m hesitant to guess what religion someone is now just based on clothes (the quiz is here: http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/06/can-you-tell-these-womens-religions-from-their-veils-6175120/ )
were you playing gravatar roulette? that got a *lot* of us sent to /dev/null. I think I got out by changing both my email and name at the same time (and then waiting for willis to approve my comment)
Okay so hear me out here: Raidah and co are networking.
Dana said it herself, that’s part of what college is about. Her dad runs a law firm, so she’s a pretty good target for networking. But she went off the rails, Sarah phoned him, and now A) she’s not gonna be able to do Raidah any favours and B) her dad just knows them as the friends who stood by while his daughter nearly died. No wonder they’re so pissed off at Sarah – not only did she take away their friend, she scuppered their reputation with a potentially useful patron.
Now there’s Jacob, and his brother is apparently in an important position – and Raidah knows it. She’s trying to land a boy with good connections, which isn’t necessarily scuzzy in and of itself, but her friends seem to have a vested interest too. Kind of like a lioness hunting down a gazelle for the pack to feast on, except the innards are actually good job offers for her and her pals.
Maybe this is unfair, and I’m definitely not saying this is her ENTIRE motive for dating The Most Beautiful Man On Campus Who’s Also A Nice Guy (though she IS turning down an offer to fool around with him, and speaking as someone into dudes What The Fuck Are You Doing Raidah), but it’s something to think about, at least.
((tbqh even if i think someone’s gorgeous that doesn’t mean im in the mood all the time,, or even most of the time :p and it’s not like that’s a one time offer anyway))
OK, to be honest, I don’t understand the malice directed toward Raidah with respect to this strip. Other than throwing some patronizing but mild insults at Joyce behind her back, I don’t see her doing or saying anything wrong here yet. She’s just worried Jacob might fall for Joyce (or that Joyce may try to break them up, which is entirely accurate).
It’s mostly that Sarah presuming to know her own roommate better than Raidah does, trying to help said roommate with her troubles, trying to keep her scholarship, telling the truth and other such things Raidah thinks are awful has spurred Raidah to try to ruin Sarah’s life in order to protect people from her; in short, we think she’s a bad person and find fault with everything she does.
And it probably also helps that we want to like Joyce and thus want to find some redeeming value in her plan to ruin Jacob’s relationship so Sarah can pick up the pieces. Which, come on people, it may be a bad relationship for Jacob but Joyce isn’t going to never mess up, that’s not the kind of protagonist she is.
Joyce is doing a bad thing, but being very nice about it.
Raidah is understandably not pleased with that, but she’s showing signs of not being at all nice about it.
I really don’t dislike her. Also i like how more relaxed and different he is around her apparently. athough it is also of the ‘horn dog” variety which is a weird thing..
but yeah joyce is a worrisome one.
but main bit being…..
The brother? Did she know him? Is he his goal or is she projecting some past onto him?
need some info on that cause that could cause the relationship dynamics to be.. rather stilted one way or the other
This is a very interesting strip for me; despite Joyce and Sarah’s plan to break up Jacob and Raidah (the goal in itself for Sarah, while Joyce at least intends Sarah to pick up the pieces), Joyce isn’t actually being that effective. She didn’t talk up Sarah very effectively, and she didn’t talk down Raidah at all. She spent a morning at church and went to lunch with a nice guy. Knowing Joyce, she’s realized she was flirting and will spend time trying to decide whether she really wants to be this person.
Raidah, however, thanks to her friends, may well be on a mission to destroy Joyce first. We have seen how Raidah deals with people she believes have crossed her. She destroyed Sarah’s social life, what little there was, through a campaign of steadfast bullying and character assassination that lasted an entire year.
I wonder if Raidah is about to destroy her own relationship, honestly. I don’t think Jacob will stand for Raidah’s brand of destruction when it’s targeting a friend who, to his knowledge, has done nothing to warrant it.
Good point and further onto that if Jacob learns what Joyces goal was it’d probably make him a bit pissed, at both Joyce and Sarah, that he was being manipulated especially given he said he doesn’t like being treated like an object which is what Sarah, especially, is doing
I kind of hope so. Joyce needs to learn a lesson about meddling in other people’s relationships (effectively or not) and I don’t want her rewarded by having it all work out with her dating Jacob.
As much as I like the idea of them as a couple, her approach here should torpedo the ship.
I doubt Raidah will be very effective at destroying Joyce’s social life, other than with Jacob. Joyce has loyal friends and is very outgoing, not a grouchy misanthrope like Sarah. Much as I like Sarah, she’s the perfect target for that kind of campaign.
I agree, Raidah’s not going to be effective vs. Joyce as she was against Sarah, but her previous/historical tactics are almost certain to cost her Jacob’s regard if she resorts to them.
I think, in the end, Joyce will probably be able to mend fences with Jacob with a sincere and heartfelt apology, because she is going to understand the wrong eventually. I don’t think Sarah or Raidah will get out that easily.
yeah 🙂 that seems like the ideal outcome; Raidah destroying the relationship herself while Joyce apologizes. And maybe Jacob decides to stay single for a while.
…I can’t believe Sarah was right. I can’t believe her attitude of ‘Raidah is a horrible person and therefore bad for Jacob’ was actually spot-on.
Watch my objections to the ‘hook up Joyce with Jacob’ plan dissolve like human flesh in a vat of acid…
Ugh. There goes my hope Raidah was just the special kind of shortsighted horrible to Sarah and obliviously ableist.
Lots of people in the comments are confused about why people are turning on Raidah here, so let me elaborate.
Remember the conversation about jealousy Raidah had with Jacob way back when? One that led many people to have higher opinions on her?
You’d think she’d shut down that kind of talk from her flunkies… but no, she engages in this as an apparently normal thing to talk about. So she lied to Jacob and is talking about him behind his back in a way she told him she never would. Strike one.
She refers to Joyce as a ‘ridiculous homeschooled nobody’ because that’s the criterions to take into account when dating, apparently. This brings back up her interactions with Sarah and the obvious classism issues (she thought Sarah worrying about her grades was ‘selfish’ not realizing that Sarah gets -one- chance and ruining it means ruining her entire life). That was not a one-off thing, this is clearly an ongoing attitude thing for her. Strike two.
Then, they’re ‘safe’ apparently. What the fuck does that mean? Safe from what? How exactly is the possibility of Jacob breaking up with her in favor of Joyce a threat to her friendgroup? Oh look, there was an apparently successful brother mentioned in the first panel… and Raidah talked to Sarah about ‘making connections’ before… And then there’s panel four. Joyce is a child, and Jacob is too. Raidah appears to consider freshment to be a step in development below her, not worth dating unless you’re down there with them… well, fair enough. Then why is she dating Jacob? If she thought of him as an exception that proves the rule, the reminder that he’s a freshmen wouldn’t have made her change her mind. Either she thinks of him as another child, or she doesn’t… Add all of that together, and strike. Fucking. Three.
To sum all of that up, Raidah is dishonest with Jacob. She does not earnestly engage with him as an equal, she views him as a ‘catch’ because of his family connections (most likely his brother, but there might be a bigger dynasty). What she tells him about her motivations in the relationship and the way she talks about it to her friends are not even tenuously connected. Like, there’s just… nothing there. Sure, Jacob is comfortable in the relationship right now, but it’s built on lies and lies.
Raidah does not view other people as -people-. It’s not just a Sarah thing. She sees Dina as a small child, Joyce as nobody-except-a-possible-threat-to-her-relationship-with-Jacob, Jacob as… basically property, as seen here. Like, seriously, she does not afford him any agency at all, and he’s her boyfriend. Her reaction to speculation he might like Joyce is not ‘he won’t like her’, it’s ‘we’re safe’. Her relationship with Jacob is just… not about Jacob at all.
Just, no. Raidah is disgusting, and the fact she’s mature, well-educated and socially conscious enough to make compelling digs at Joyce, shut down ableist slurs from her flunkie and play-act ‘reasonable mature non-jealous girlfriend’ for Jacob just makes it worse. She’s not like this out of ignorance and inexperience, this is the way she chooses to be.
Gross.
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“and they will always BE freshmen”
“nooooooo damn you comic strip time”
Honestly, always being a college freshman sorta sounds like hell.
Are we sure Joyce et al. didn’t go to The Bad Place? When does Ted Danson show up?
Yeah! And when does George Wendt make his grand entrance??
.
.
whoops, wrong Ted Danson series…
Hey, Norm the bartender was pretty great! He captured the annoyed bartender stuck listening to other people’s problems really well. It’s not his fault Dr. Becker was just such a conceited jerk no matter how much he mellowed at the end of the series 😉
Oh you mean that other series with the two of them!
Remember the time Norm got that 8-ball stuck in his mouth, then that conductor had to help get it back out?
Oh wait, that’s two wrong series.
Hey, this series already HAS a loveable drunk!
Her name is Sal.
Hello, crossover idea.
What is this, a crossover episode?
And then you realize Cheers was the last version of the good place
There ARE episodes of Cheers that I wish I could just snap my fingers and have everyone forget them…
On the bright side, we get like five years to work on our projects.
I don’t know, my freshmen year I was able to get away from my parents and stop worrying about meeting their expectations and instead be true to myself. It was awesome, I sometimes wish I had actually studied so I didn’t have to go back home.
That’s what I like about Dumbing of Age. I get older, and they stay the same age.
‘Dazed & Confused’?
Can’t be held responsible we were only freshman
So are Char and Chan Raidah’s personal Greek choir?
Nice reference.
Huh. I’d forgotten how sorta-shitty these three could be.
Have a reminder.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/bullies/
In case anyone forgot Raidah’s kind of a douche.
See! Joyce would totally let you fool around with her!
In a few years.
Once you’re married.
In the right church.
No, you can’t have the lights on.
XD
okay
Raidah’s dialogue is kinda funny.
“SHE IS BUT A CHILD”
Lady, you’re one year older than her.
I was thinking the same thing!
Plus they’re all 18 or older, so technically adults now.
I started college when I was 17, didn’t turn 18 until the end of November. So, like 2025 in the strip?
Thanks for reminding me that this comic has been running daily for SEVEN YEARS.
Entire cast is babies.
The way she was talking, you would think that Raidah was a Christmas Cake or something.
😐 Lord, why did you have to remind me of the whole Christmas Cake thing, that is one of my least favorite pieces of age-related misogyny because it profanes the absolute good that is cake
I’ve only ever really heard Western anime fans use Christmas Cake in this context. It’s a pretty outdated thing to call someone in Japan.
Doesn’t matter who’s using it, I still really really hate the expression. Good that it’s falling out of fashion, though.
I mean the misogynistic attitude behind it isn’t falling out of fashion just that particular term to express it so it’s a fairly hollow victory.
It’s kinda like calling someone a ‘perfect cinnamon roll’, these days.
Too pure for this world?
I thought that was a compliment of sorts.
Really though, Christmas cake (as in the actual food) already profane cake a bit.
Christmas cake isn’t cake, it’s a thick, fruity abomination. Also, no idea what phrase you’re talking about
It’s a piece of (hopefully outdated) Japanese culture. A Christmas Cake refers to an unmarried woman who is 25 years old or older and doomed to never find a husband. Just like no one wants to buy Christmas cakes past 25-26 of December.
Does anybody (other than the Japanese) actually use the phrase “Christmas cake” to describe this fruit-filled abomination? Everyone I have ever known just calls it fruit cake (as in “nutty as a ___”).
Japanese Christmas cake isn’t fruitcake. It’s traditionally a variation of strawberry shortcake.
From my watching of anime, the christmas cakes they sell in japan aren’t fruitcakes, they’re ordinary (albeit holiday themed) cakes.
(You see them being sold in anime relatively often because being stuck standing out in the cold selling the things on what is culturally a date night is a good way to mildly inconvenience a character. Perhaps more than mildly depending on what costume they’re stuck wearing.)
Thank you for the explanation! I was utterly confused by the thread. “What- is Raidah saying that she never goes off? That she doesn’t age and is “good” even if you forget how long it’s been? That sounds like the opposite of the point the comments are saying…”
The fruitcake part, huh? This reminds me a page from Manly Guys doing Manly Things where the protagonist stashed some fruitcakes somewhere and came there decades later (him and his army friends are basically Time-travelling SEALs) and the fruitcake was still good… or at least as good as a fruitcake can be.
I remember that! Man, I haven’t read MGDMT for ages.
Personally I always preferred fruitcake to sponge, but that’s because my mother used to bring home these slices of “cake” from school (where she worked). They were so dry and tasteless I had to take a sip of water with every mouthful to get it down. That affected my opinion on sponge for life it seems.
@Jason
One of the bonuses of reading MGDMT is getting to see the author. She is like the coolest human alive, someone who would feel at home in Mad Max XD
Guess that’s why they call it “sponge”. What kind of cake is that anyway? What’s it made of?
When you need to feel superior to someone, you latch on to whatever you can get. It can start early, worried about whether the kid in the next high chair has more cornflakes than you do.
🎶
But, if I were to go back to college
Think what a loser I’d be
I’d walk through the quad, and think, “oh my God…
These kids are so much younger than me…”
(35yo grad student here, this verse is my life.)
I regularly go back to campus to listen in on lectures, so I feel that verse.
Same age, I recently went to a performance on campus with one of my old friends from freshman year. As we got out there was something about the night. Not sure if it was the dark and the rain keeping kids indoors and glossing over any changes, or just how many cold rainy October nights we’d wandered around the cafeteria like that (and we were even walking back towards our old dorm, where she’d parked), but the place felt like it was ours again in a way it hasn’t for 10 years.
I sense self-destruction in this one.
Yiiiiiiikes.
I dunno, it occurs to me that anytime we’ve seen Raidah act like an ass, she’s been with her friends. Maybe it’s, like, Mean Girls syndrome where hanging out with them brings out the worst in her?
But yeah, that’s a really rude and unpleasant way to talk about someone.
Also it’s kind of worrying that THAT was her response, rather than “Jacob cares about me and I trust him to have friends without cheating on me”
Exactly! I really liked how non-jealous and self-assured she was before. Wish she didn’t have to treat self-confidence like a zero sum game, that she could just be glad without putting everyone else down.
Like many people, it seems Raidah’s behavior changes when her friends are around.
Or when the boyfriend isn’t?
It does look that way, and it’s continuing a trend I’ve noticed much more with Raidah than other characters- which is how much we know of her is informed by her interactions with others, rather than herself as an individual. I feel like that last panel is perhaps one of the first times we’ve seen her as herself, if that makes sense.
I think she’s gone out of her way to antagonize Sarah alone before. That is, when she wasn’t with Char or Chan. Granted, she and Sarah hate each other but Sarah never went out of her way to insult Sarah.
Not that Sarah is completely innocent in the relationship, just saying that Raidah can be a jerk without the other two around
Sarah’s probably a special case, given their history. It just struck me, the difference between “hanging out with Jake and Joe” Raidah and “hanging out with Char and Chan” Raidah
Hm, I wonder if it’s not just the three feeding off of each other’s worst aspects but also more freedom to be themselves. Ya know, Raidah doesn’t have to “perform” for her friends the same way she does for Jacob.
But yes, you make good points. I think it’ll be interesting to see Raidah’s character develop in future comics
Well, I’d hope Sarah never went out of her way to insult Sarah. That would be a sign of great and terrible levels of insecurity.
I kind of think she does it regularly.
Are her friends bringing out the worst in her or just making her secure enough to display it overtly rather than keep it subtle?
Yes.
Good point
The way their conversation is phrased gives me a distinctly creepy ‘we have a plan and are going to use Jacob to achieve it’ vibe, which I haven’t felt since Getaway was romancing Tailgate. I’m concerned about what they might do to Joyce if she becomes a viable romance option in their eyes.
Poor Jacob, my god, he has like NO agency in the machinations of all these ladies. Why is Jacob everybody’s sexy, sexy pawn?
I bet (ie I hope) he points that out, in, like, a year real-time. Possibly while rejecting all of them.
Yeah poor guy will probably push all of them away with a disgusted face. Wondering if all he was to them was a tool for stabbing each other in the face.
“We’re safe. The plan may proceed on schedule.”
We’ll know if Raidah buys Jacob some fancy press-on nails as a gift, and directs him to Ruth’s room.
Also, now I am totally imagining DoA characters as their Lost Light equivalents. I actually see Joyce as Tailgate (those eyes), Sarah as Cyclonus, and Mike as Whirl.
This is fun! Let’s see, Walky is Rodimus, Becky is Swerve, Danny is Hoist, Carla is Brainstorm, Dorothy is Ultra Magnus, Ruth is Megatron, Billie is Trailcutter, Dina is Rung, Lucy is Nautica, Beef is Ten, Fuckface is Ravage, Sal is Ratchet…
I’m all out.
If Fuckface is Ravage, does that make Malaya Soundwave?
Amber as…. Fort Max? Red Alert? Someone thoroughly traumatized, which I guess casts a wide net in Lost Light.
Joyce and Sarah as Tailgate and Cyclonus is uncanny, though. Ah, roommates where the cheery one with big blue eyes aggressively manages to befriend the grumpy one.
Would that make Blaine Overlord?
Toedad… Star saber? Maybe since their both religious fanatics?Ethan could be Rewind, Forest Quad is the Vis Vitalid to Read’s Lost Light, I think Malaya would he more like Whirl, though,and Blowjob Cat is obviously Primus
I think she means “Jacob and I are safe” but I had the same response on my first read.
“We’re safe?” Do you plan on sharing Jacob with your friends, Raidah?
I think she probably meant “we” as in her and Jacob
But my idea is more fun. For the girls at least, I’m not sure Jacob would like the idea.
THIS is why we need exclusive we! To prevent this sort of confusion!
Do sophomores act this above freshman? My friends and I are all transfer students so we start junior year at a four-year and most of us are actually 1-3 years older than the native juniors. So freshman and sophomores are basically the same to us.
It is for some reason impossible for me as a sophomore not to be a little like ‘lmao freshman’ (this was also true in high school) but it’s more ‘I do not envy you dude’ than ‘I’m better because I’m ahead’.
I mean I was literally a freshman, like, what feels like five seconds ago, so.
In the context of this I really don’t get why ‘she’s only a freshman’ is a reason Joyce isn’t a threat. It’s not as if there’s much of a maturity gap between fresh and soph.
It depends on how much of the “catty high school clique” mentality they’re still holding on to.
You know how Billie started out clinging to her ideas of how college would be a continuation of her high school experiences? I feel like these three are similar, but without the personal growth Billie had forced on her- I feel like they’ve been together in that clique since school, and haven’t broadened beyond it significantly.
I’m basing that on two or three strips though, so we will see!
Plus, a great number of people need some sort of foothold to stand on. Other people’s faces make the best foothold, but as a college sophomore the only faces low enough for you to reach are family and college sophomores, unless there’s a high school very close by that has tons of overlap with the college.
But there is often a serious maturity gap. Not in age, but people grow up a lot in college, much of it in those first years – first time away from home for an extended time, no parents to supervise you, etc. It’s a big change
A big change Raidah hasn’t made, for all that she thinks so.
Meanwhile, the grad students are looking down and thinking “that’s *adorable*.”
Right? This is why transfers get along with TAs rather than other undergrads
THE SEED OF DOUBT IS PLANTED
lol@ sophomores calling a freshman a child
lol@ me looking down on 19 year olds as if I’m not still basically a child myself
To be fair, I remember in high school when I first realized I hated (high school) freshmen. It was the first day of my sophomore year.
“Was that me? Was I like that? Oh god, why was I like that??”
— nearly every reader’s reaction to this comic
That, and feeling nostalgic while wanting to punch your younger self for being such an idiot
+5 internets for you…
Wow, Raidah’s kind of a dick
I’m kinda hoping Jacob and Joyce get together now, they seem like they’d be a good fit for each other
More to your point, her friends are also dicks, and the three of them mutually reinforce each other’s dickishness.
I’m guessing that when Jacob the Oblivious finally realizes that, it’s going to be a source of tension.
Raidah, I keep trying to like you, but you make it *very hard* sometimes. Not least for being so damn judgmental and patronizing. Don’t turn into the jealous/clingy girlfriend in this love triangle.
Also, if you could not be the pushy, Harvard Law or bust girlfriend, that’d be great, too.
Okay I super don’t like Raidah, but one of the reasons they started dating was a mutual focus on their law studies. I’ve really gotta grant her that one, it’s straight up part of the basis of their whole relationship.
Absolutely. Which is also why I feel like it’s doomed, even if Raidah ends up being much nicer than we’ve seen so far (before today something I very strongly expected). Jacob, it seems, has made a choice with his head, rather than having his head and heart agreeing- and the heart, if not taken into account, has quite the way of fucking shit up.
“and the heart, if not taken into account, has quite the way of fucking shit up.”
true. 🙂
See the line where the sky meets the sea
It calls me
And no one knows how far it goes
If the wind in my sail on the sea stays behind me
One day I’ll know
If I go there’s just no telling how far I’ll go…
I think she’s well within her rights to be jealous? I mean, they just admitted Joyce was flirting with Jacob. That’s a.. pretty valid thing to be jealous about??
Not particularly? Jacob doesn’t seem to notice that Joyce is flirting, and I expect that he’d stay true to Raidah (which Raidah should know). There isn’t much to be jealous about, especially since Joyce clearly appears to be having an internal battle over ethics, and her role in the love triangle might be more vague.
Clearly? To Raidah?
Joyce jumped away when Raidah saw her. That doesn’t register as “internal battle over ethics”, but “I got caught”.
Good point. In the long run, though, an ethics battle might put Joyce on the sidelines for a bit, and that should help alleviate Raidah’s concerns.
Ehh, Joyce just doesn’t like Raidah because of how she treated Sarah, in part. Plus, Joyce had such a hard time going to Jacob’s church, I think part of her reaction was to the invitation to Raidah’s mosque. I’m not even sure Joyce is cognizant that she was flirting with Jacob. She’s supposed to be setting him up with Sarah, after all.
Oh god, my gravatar lol.
The way she jumped away and blushed when Raidah said “ahem” in yesterday’s strip, she definitely knew she was up to something bad.
I’m not convinced that she’s aware she was flirting yet though. I mean, she absolutely was and absolutely felt “caught”, but I’m not sure that she’s aware of WHY. That actually is a hurdle that she hasn’t significantly had experience with yet- as much as her experience is broadening, her ability to acknowledge sexual attraction is still a huge tripping point for her. Her only experience was with a gay guy who was never going to want more with her, resulting in her being “safe”- not from him (or not just from him) but from herself, her sexuality. And even then we’ve seen it be a huge problem to the point of breaking down just for thinking about dude-torso and what it meant to her.
And? Even if Jacob isn’t receptive to the flirtations, Raidah’s perfectly valid to be upset at someone flirting with him despite clearly knowing her as his girlfriend.
If yesterday is anything to go by, I think Joyce forgot Raidah was Jacob’s boyfriend. And I suppose I have to admit that Raidah has good reason to have righteous anger, I’m just still pissed off at how she writes Joyce off.
To be honest I think she also completely forgot that she’s supposed to be winning him over to Sarah as well!
What else can she be? The understanding one who steps aside so the protagonist gets her dream guy?
Seriously, this isn’t “the jealous/clingy girlfriend”, this is “has correctly identified a threat to their relationship”. Joyce is not only obviously attracted and flirty, but she’s explicitly said she wants to break them up.
It’s actually kind of an interesting twist on the standard love triangle. The protagonist is really the villain here. I like Joyce and have very strong reservations about Raidah, but Joyce is completely in the wrong here.
Yeah, Joyce is stepping right into a well-developed relationship, and she doesn’t belong there. I don’t think Raidah should give up any ground, but I don’t like her sense of insecurity and growing sense of “I must stop her.” Jacob seems oblivious to Joyce’s flirting, and, even if he wasn’t, I feel like he’d be the kind of person to stay true to Raidah. So Raidah’s taking up arms seems kind of pointless to me.
“Oblivious to” isn’t the same as “unaffected by”. It could simply be denial.
I don’t think Jacob would cheat, but if he does fall for Joyce that’s going to screw up their relationship.
What do you do in this kind of situation? Just let the flirtation go on until it comes to a head?
It just feels like Raidah is setting up a situation that will lead to a lot of confrontations. She could ultimately push Joyce away from Jacob, but it could do a hell of a lot of damage for the three of them.
And I’d say a stopping point is about when there’s definite and mutual flirting going on, because that raises a lot of red flags. I’m just not seeing that here.
I don’t think Raidah’s the one setting up a situation for confrontations
She’s not the one going around trying to break up a relationship, after all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, Raidah didn’t really start any confrontation, though she could escalate it, which is the concern.
Anytime, any day, you could hear the people say…
‘Love is blind’
I don’t know but I say Love is kind…
Chan: “…and she can teleport.”
Char: “Yeah. You remember what happened when your last boyfriend met a teleporter–”
Raidah “Never. Speak. Of them. Again.”
And there it is! The moment when doubt was seeded within Raidah’s heart, growing until it consumed her in a jealousy-fueled rage that killed every main character in the comic (or just Mary).
Well there goes that seed of doubt. Planted in Raidah’s mind.
Man, I really hate Raidah. Just the way she talks about people.
Poor Radiator, her too biggest competitors are both way hotter than her.
*two biggest
But Radiator was on purpose?
It was originally autocorrect but it made me laugh so I kept it
First, it is funny. Is Radiator a character, like in Transformer or.somewhere? (out of my element here.)
Second, I can only now think of an anthropomorphic piece of radiatori pasta.
But seriously, Joyce is “cleaned up ” here, and as noted, to great effect. Sarah has gone tank-top and without her bandanna when she wants to flirt with Jacob,which was a small alteration with big change.
Have we seen Raidah dressed at her “impress a guy” level?
Also, do her friends draw Raidah too much into the visual-oriented thing here? The chemistry was pretty evident with JoyCob.
A radiator expels hot air
I’m glad Raidah isn’t jealous over Joyce and Jacob, but I’m not pleased with her reasoning. “She’s ridiculous, she’s a child” Joyce is only a year younger. And if she’s a nobody, why has she been in the news? If anything, Joyce might be a VERY recognizable figure on campus by now. She punched an intolerant attempted kidnapper and possible school shooter in the FACE. I’m glad for her friend pointing out that, if Joyce is naught but a child, then so too is Jacob. I could see Raidah and Jacob remaining good friends because she seems like a good influence on him so long as Sarah isn’t involved. But otherwise, I’m not seeing any romance here.
You forgot that she’s also the person who put the highly visible/recognizable scar on the rapist. Her role in both were played down but when someone does enough high profile stuff people start learning your name wether the news paper club writes it or not.
Good point, I forgot about that too! A ‘nobody’ Joyce at this point is unlikely, not with both of these events so close to each other as well.
Anyway, Jacob’s a freshman? I guess that makes sense, but for some reason I was assuming he was a sophomore.
He didn’t know Sarah and Raidah’s past til the party, and considering they’re all taking pre-law it’d have likely spread like gossip if he was in the same year.
It would depend on how much overlap there was in the classes they were taking at that point– the first year there might not have been as much. And depends on the size of the program, and how involved in gossip Jacob was. Basically, if they were all in the same year, it still would be totally possible for him not to know about past connections.
Actually something I’m a little curious about, when is Jacob going to hear Sarah’s side of the story about her blood feud with Raifah? Cause Raidah’s story is obviously slanted in her (or at least against Sarah’s) favor, so when will jacob get the other half?
It would be amusing if not only did Jacob know Sarah’s take, but he found out from one of Raidah’s sidekicks.
His roommate is Ethan. Would he be rooming with a random freshman if he were a sophomore? Although that did happen to me. My frosh year roommate and I decided not to room together the next year, and I got last pick in the dorm room lottery.
Then again, Jacob is in a class with Sarah, so maybe he is a sophomore and the two Plastics are merely referring to his seeming innocence.
“Would he be rooming with a random freshman if he were a sophomore?”
Joyce and Sarah, though we have Sarah’s backstory as a factor. Still, Jacob has his own yet-unrevealed backstory. And like you said, it does happen.
As far as classes, I took a couple classes with juniors and seniors my freshman year…which means they took classes with a freshman, so really, year means pretty little in a lot of college courses. I do think them having class together influenced my assumption, but it really doesn’t mean anything.
Sarah is rooming with a random freshman.
I think Roz is a sophomore (and rooming with Mary, who is a freshman)? I’m not sure.
Roz is almost certainly a freshman, given that she’s in the same basic gender studies class as a bunch of other freshman characters: Joyce, Dorothy, Joe, Walky, etc.
that logic only works if gender studies is a required 1st-year course, which seems unlikely? (although it would explain joe and walky being there – I’d expect them to delay it or not take it at all if they could)
It’s possible Roz isn’t a freshman, but there’s no evidence for it. We’re guessing based on clues. Every else we know of it that class is a freshman (though there are nameless students who could be seniors). It wouldn’t be contradictory if Willis established her as a sophomore, but the hints point at her being frosh.
Actually, I think they do more than hint. In the story arc where she was competing with Dorothy for RA, it was strongly implied she was also a freshman – Dorothy said she’d checked with the sophomores and they weren’t interested.
Roz is a freshman. She said herself early on she was 18 (average age of freshmen) and I’m pretty sure it also came up during the RA thing.
Roz is a freshman.
Yeah, I was kind of surprised by that too. Based mostly on the class with Sarah, I guess.
How’s that, “I don’t do jealousy” outlook working out for you there, Raidah?
I was wondering about that too. I suspect her casual attitude about it with Jacob is a front, telling him what he wants to hear from her.
I don’t agree. She seemed steady enough saying it. It’s possible that she felt confident in saying it because there was no supposed competition in view. Then again, she didn’t seem to view Joyce as potential “competition” until her friends said something, so maybe it was just a question of being away from them.
Oh, I think she clearly saw Joyce as a threat last strip. Her comments here read more as denial.
I think there have been some hints of it previously as well. Subtle and easily written off as her antipathy to Sarah, but that could be viewed as her trying to push Jacob away from her. Then Joyce got involved and Jakes was all impressed by her, so she needs to undermine her as well.
Oh boy…
Huh, guess she’s evil after all.
Darn, I wanted a very sympathetic antagonist, I like when you can argue just as strongly for Sarah or Raidah.
Although I guess they’re both being jerks in this love triangle, so.
Good. I was worried that, since I haven’t gone back and archive binged in a while that I might just hate Raidah because Sarah hates her and Sarah is one of the main characters, but nope, she’s just terrible.
I find myself wondering if women actually say things like “sniffin’ around your dude”. It may be a result of my personal bias and the kind of women I typically associate with, but that sounds like the kind of of absurdly ignorant thing I’d be more likely to attribute to men’s “locker room talk” than women speaking seriously about relationship concerns (even college age women).
Remember that they are just sophomores. They’re acting out how they think women act as much as anything. That friend may have gotten the phrase out of a Hollywood movie or some daytime soap probably written by dudes who heard it in their locker-room.
This strip is a reminder for all y’all that these 3 are kinda shitty people.
tfw u 19 and call someone 10 months younger than u a child
Ah yes, an 18-year-old child, as opposed to the 19-year-old adult you are.
God, I remember being 19. I feel fucking OLD now but not in a good way.
I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.
I posted this on the spur of the moment, but it’s so predictable that now I feel like The Guy Who Yelled Freebird.
*snrk* Are you mayhaps referencing the Doubleclicks song about that?
Or Bob Dylan. Some people are just kids.
I love the Doubleclicks like I love a burrito. (Even though I think Angela must have been spying on me and my last romantic interest when she wrote “Will They or Won’t They?”)
The Dylan lyric “I’m younger than that now” is just such a cliched response to I-used-to-think-I-was-old-but-NOW that it’s almost a “FIRST” comment.
I was an incoming freshman when Dumbing of Age started. Think about how I must feel!
^Is 30.
Shut up, you’re all children. My adulthood participation trophy proves it.
I’m 32; the other day I bought a grocery
I tried to buy the grocery, but ended up getting a mortgage. Am i adulting right?
I’m addicted to coffee, overly annoyed by politics, and have severe insomnia those are adult things right?
I went to the stock exchange and did a business..
I’m 33 and today I commented on a comic strip.
I’m 60, worked an 10- hour day yesterday, and look forward to reading this comic strip every morning.
Only 60? What a kid. My 10 hour day is just starting.
Hush, child.
*raises hand*
Half that again.
Finally, someone older than me. >_> (I’ve only got 1/3 again on them. >_>)
What is this superiority complex the sophomores have? Raidah definitely sees more differences between herself and them than actually exist.
Meh, I loathe Raidah, but I actually think Joyce is being a bongo here. She knows Jacob has a girlfriend and she’s acting like a thot. Raidah’s friends, whom I also loathe because Sarah is my favorite character, just might be looking out for her. Interfaith relationships, esp. between people who are as into their faith as Jacob and Raidah seem to be, can be hard as hell. I really hope Joyce backs off and finds a dude of her own.
What is Joyce doing that’s inappropriate?
She’s flirting with a guy she knows has a girlfriend. I’m not sure where that;’s appropriate anywhere. Also she’s actively trying to break them up and is just now realizing she has a thing for him.
I don’t think she realises how much she’s been flirting- or if she does it’s just happened. I mean, her behaviour is inappropriate but at the time she wasn’t aware of it- beyond her trying to sell him on Sarah’s charms.
And with the lack of self-awareness it’s definitely a different story. Most of her interactions haven’t consciously been to undermine their relationship. That intent is absolutely skeevy and disgusting (and feels so very teenagery) but the rest has been fairly innocent.
I’m not saying it’s not inappropriate, but I don’t feel her actions are quite as severe as many other commenters seem to feel when considering the whole picture.
She IS actively trying to break them up. She just thinks it’s for Sarah.
She’s trying to break up a non-abusive relationship.
Calling Joyce a hoe (thot – that hoe over there) is a tad extreme. She’s being slightly flirty, because their chemistry is really good together, not because she’s actively tried to get him to bed. Not like my former fiance whose “natural flirtyness” got me a 10 page skypelog from a random dude when his ex’s skype logged onto his comp and I saw my fiance and one of our in-common female friends discuss that she was willing to anal sex and her blog said how much she desired him…
If Jacob would decide to cheat, it’s on him, nobody else. He can be tempted all you want, it’ll still be on him if he does something that isnt in agreement with his relationship with Raidah. If he chooses to break up with Raidah to be with Joyce, that is his decision.
[For more projection] said ex fiance a few months later emotionally forced me into a threesome with his best friend (female). A week later de broke up with me, insisted it had nothing to do with her. Three weeks after that, she moved in with him, and on new year three months later, they were engaged.
So like, i really know what its like, benig in Raidah’s shoes in this scenario. But it’s still on your partner if they are unfaithful. And personally, what hurt me the most was the dishonesty over the whole thing. I would have managed that breakup much better if he had told me straight on that he developed feelings for his best friend, instead of insisting that there was nothing going on, and once he came clean about it and i said i saw that comming he was flabbergast because to him it was lightning from a clear sky that he developed this attraction…
Sure its on Jacob if he cheats and/or breaks up with Raidah but its still a shitty thing to put temptation into someones path that otherwise wouldn’t be there
That wasnt my point. My point was that it’s uncalled for to start using misogynistic slurs at Joyce, then i went a bit heavy on the projection part.
Yeah, as uncomfortable as I am with what Joyce, and Sarah, and Becky are doing, I’m also not comfortable with that phrasing.
I had no idea what that meant- I wondered if it was a filter similar to bongo or something. I agree, that’s a pretty gross phrase. It makes me feel like I need a shower.
So does Raidah’s confidence and not-jealousy come from a superiority complex? Welp, you know what a superiority complex is an alternation of…
Also those two are the worst kind of womenfriends that nobody needs.
All this hate for Raidah, could be worse though like imagine if she was deliberately trying to break up a relationship just so her friend could have a chance
Man Raidahs the worst
I never get tired of the notion that one person is wrong, therefore the other must be right.
It is nicely done, isn’t it.
Joyce is clearly in the wrong in this little love triangle (rectangle?). Joyce is also the protagonist and clearly the nicer character and generally better person.
I’m very curious to see how it turns out.
As much as I actually like Joyce and Jacob together, I don’t want this to work out. Joyce shouldn’t be rewarded for what she’s doing here.
I trust Willis to handle this well.
Personally I want Joyce to have a huge “holy crap what I’m doing is awful” moment, and for her to have to deal with the guilt of that- and THEN for her and Jacob to get together. You’re right in that she shouldn’t be rewarded for the skullduggery, but I’m okay with her being rewarded for a genuine repentance of her underhanded behaviour.
(Also talking about Joyce having underhanded behaviour is weirrrrd.)
Or you know, you could imagine someone trying to completely poison your friendship with someone by bringing up an event you agreed was resolved because it reflects them negatively. You know, like how Raidah accepted Sarah’s apology for punching her then still later used it to try to influence Jacob’s opinion (you either forgive someone or you don’t, you can’t have it both ways!). And still insults her to his face or implies negative things to his face about her even though he is friends with her and it makes him uncomfortable like calling Sarah human sandpaper.
Like, Raidah is as guilty of trying to influence his decisions of his other relationships outside of their romantic one. And now she is NOT communicating her feelings to Jacob after purposely making Joyce feel uncomfortable and to make herself feel more comfortable is undermining Joyce as a person based on being homeschooled, being a freshman; things which don’t actually reflect on her character at all.
Oh yeah. Raidah’s definitely been actively trying to undermine that friendship. There’s a LOT of bad blood there though- I don’t blame her for having extremely strong feelings with regards to Sarah, but dragging that into Jacob’s relationship with her is problematic.
I blame her for having extremely strong feeling with regards to Sarah, because her reactions are not remotely on the level of what “my friend’s parent pulled them out of school” merits, EVEN IF you give Raidah the full benefit of assuming that Sarah did it entirely selfishly. There is nothing stopping Dana coming back when she’s got her shit together again, Raidah’s actions are more on the level of if Dana had actually gotten kicked out.
iirc, there was some issue of Dana’s parents being unsafe too. that makes it more understandable that Raidah was upset. (I still don’t like or trust her)
There is an assumption that Dana’s father is unsafe based on why the F would Raidah not have moved on yet otherwise.
Unless Sarah has bean told Dana’s father is unsafe in front of Raidah, and Raidah has been offering to contribute time to the help Dana get through her issues project Raidah is still over reacting.
Has “hella” really made it to the Midwest, to the point where it can be used unironically? Last I knew, even SoCal people regarded it as a NoCal regionalism.
I do sometimes use “wicked” as an intensifier, but when I do the words following it have to be spoken in a fake Boston accent.
As a Midwesterner: sort of. It’s not widely used but the recent influx of Midwesterners taking parts from almost every other region of the US has led to the usage of the term in an unironic fashion at times.
I genuinely love the word hella, it conveys a level of intensity that I don’t think any other word manages to.
South Park had like an entire episode based around Cartman using the word. That was their second season, in…..1998. Holy shit I’m old.
Umm…I live in Michigan and used the word “hella” extensively like…three years ago. I actually thought it was sort of funny in this strip if anything because I see it as becoming less prominent already. But yeah, it’s used.
It’s in the media, so, much like a pathogen hitting the international airports, it’s everywhere now.
My first encounter with ‘hella’ was from a Michigan-born friend, almost 20 years ago. (Think she might have picked it up from the South Park episode Tarmaniel mentioned.)
It’s getting publicity in some gaming circles these days because of the game Life is Strange, which is set in a fictitious Oregon town in 2013. One of the main characters, Chloe Price, says hella a lot.
I misread that as “fictional Oregon town of 2013”. I got very confused.
I didn’t think Life Is Strange has that much of an impact? But it’d be nice if I was wrong, I’ve heard good things about it.
This is a puzzle for me: why is “Hella Nice” not the title? Sure, maybe “Fool” has some sort of artistic meaning, where here it’s not just a word said but represents the characters’ actions, etc., whatever. But I mean, Galasso and Yus aren’t even here, this is just false advertising.
FOOOOOOL!
Wow. I’ve never disliked two characters I’ve never seen before faster! Or Raidah either.
We’ve seen them before.
indeed. and they were being percussion instruments then too. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/challenged/
I love the fact that the comment section has moved from using the term for female dogs as an insult to “percussive instruments”. No sarcasm, that just made me feel really pleased.
Though I’m sure some of it is intentional, bongo is the censored version of the term for female dogs, as the original word was abused viciously in past comments.
yes, that’s why some of us switched to saying “percussion instrument”, since it’s clearly intentional *and* a reminder of the hilarious bongo filter. 🙂 I think jason was aware of all that, it just gets confusing talking about filters.
Yeah Raidah can be a bit of a dick at times but what Joyce is doing is even worse (imho) and yet its Raidah getting the flak
Mind you all it would take is a couple of backstory strips and suddenly Raidah would be quickly forgiven of her (minor) sins
Minor sins? She’s been bullying Sarah for a year, to the point of trying to keep her isolated by driving away new friends. She was rude to Dinah and talked down to her.
Like that may not be the stuff of evil but she’s nowhere near moral superiority. Joyce is doing something wrong but she’s doing it to help someone she cares about. Joyce is a good person doing a bad thing while Raidah is currently neutral with a history of bad.
Bullying Sarah for year is a bit otp don’t you think, they’ve had less than a handful of interactions and as for Joyce a bad thing is still a bad thing no matter the intentions of the person
and being how quickly she removed her hand when Raidah appeared I’d suggest Joyce knows that as well
It seemed pretty clearly implied that Raidah’s treatment of Sarah began when Dana got sent home during the previous school year. Not just last month when the semester began.
Well sure but I’m meaning the amount of interactions we’ve seen this year. It hasn’t been many and it seems like (to me anyway) theres more of an attempt to avoid each other than going out of their way to antagonize each other
“Avoiding Sarah,” like by walking up to her in the caf and telling her she hopes Sarah chokes?
Notably while Sarah was purposely sitting alone and had made zero moves to antagonize or even go near Raidah?
Raidah’s bullying has been active and malicious, for a year, despite only appearing onscreen a couple of times.
Active and malicious, yes. Not for a year, though. I don’t think it’s clear when everything falls apart with Dana but I took it to be late in the academic year.
I might be missing some information, though.
But I do feel like Raidah sees herself as justified. Sarah- from her perspective- completely screwed over her best friend, simply because she was fed up of her mourning, and possibly got her sent back to a negative family environment. We know there’s a lot more to it than that, but Raidah’s coming at it as Dana’s friend, feeling betrayed for her. Does that excuse it? Hell no. But I feel it makes it more understandable and renders Raidah less of a villain and more of a character of depth- which she is, because Willis.
It was after Sarah got her midterm grades, so probably around October-November….so probably exactly a year ago, yeah.
Raidah goes out of her way to isolate Sarah and put her down. Obviously we haven’t seen the worst of it because it started last term after Dana was send home.
I won’t count to her sins that she didn’t help Dana and initially fell for her narrative of “everything’s ok”, because druggies do that and you want to believe them.
But I definitely count to her sins that she uses her influence to turn other people against Sarah.
And as for Joyce, sorry, no she’s not busy with the narrative of “let’s break up Raidah’s relationship” but with “get Sarah together with Jacob, I thought they were perfect for each other when I first saw him” (which was before Raidah and sort of a knee-jerked idea in that context, but still). Doesn’t count as a sin in my book.
And her having fallen for him herself also is not a sin.
Without a dramatic back story – which she might have and we don’t know about – Raidah is a bully who goes after the weak, is condescending as hell (as seen in this strip again) and hasn’t shown any redeeming quality yet.
“let’s break up Raidah’s relationship” is exactly what shes thing, she wants Jacob with Sarah so Jacob and Raidahs relationship has to end so yes it is a shitty thing Joyce is doing, she might think its a shitty thing, she might only be thinking of helping Sarah but its still a shitty thing to do to want to break up a relationship
How would you feel if Raidah decided that one of her friends would be perfect for Becky and so went about trying to Becky and Dina up just so Becky could be available for her friend
Honestly? I’d laugh. And, Dina and Becky would laugh too, and stay together.
But also, it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Becky and Dina are head over heels for each other, AND we’ve seen them not only act in each other’s best interests, but also be generally kind and generous to those around them.
Sympathizing with a character (Sarah) who wants to punish a girl who:
1. was callous towards Dana
2. led a harassment campaign against Sarah for a semester simply because she tried to get Dana help
3. Mocked Dina
4. Has a close friend who apparently so routinely uses ableist slurs that she has to remind herself not to “in public”
5. Thinks herself superior to freshman, people who have “bad” clothes, people who aren’t ambitious…er, just everyone, essentially…
6. Finds her own boyfriend childish and…
7. is now going back on her previous assertion that she trusts Jacob enough to let him have female friends…
…yeah, I’d want to punish her too. And, sure, revenge is never wise. It’s definitely going to bite Sarah in the butt (Joyce too, probably).
But, also? If someone is going to bully and harass and judge and snark across the board, eventually that person is going to bully the wrong person. Someone who’s had enough. And then, they’re going to get their comeuppance.
The only way Sarah’s revenge plan would work would be if Jacob genuinely believes that Joyce would be a better girlfriend than Raidah. He may well come to that conclusion because he realizes how mean Raidah is to people who aren’t him. He might realize that he just feels more strongly for Joyce than for Raidah. And if that happens? He is a human being with agency and autonomy, and he gets to make that choice. Sarah’s revenge doesn’t work without Jacob’s consent; if his relationship is genuinely great, he won’t give it.
So that’s the main difference. Becky would never succumb to a revenge scheme that involved her dumping Dina, because she and Dina have a wonderful relationship. That’s why that kind of revenge attempt would be laughable.
The fact that Sarah’s revenge scheme might actually work? That’s what makes it poetic. Ultimately, the final domino would have to be tipped by Jacob, something that will only happen when Raidah’s own personality flaws push him to it.
#TeamSarah #JoycexJacob4ever
Honestly, whether it works or not, it’s still a shitty thing to try and do. Also, while Jacob can consent to go out with Joyce, if he doesn’t end his relationship with Raidah first, he’s the one being the shitheel.
Exactly. Trying to tempt someone into breaking up is a lousy thing to do, pretty much regardless of what you think of their partner. If you’re friends and you really think their partner is awful or abusive, trying to talk them into getting out is reasonable, but trying to seduce them into it still isn’t.
It’s all more complicated than Indoor Cat paints it: It’s quite possible to have chemistry/attraction with someone else even if your relationship is going well. Encouraging this, perhaps by spending lots of casual flirty time with them, even with no bad intentions can easily lead to something that feels more serious.
@thejeff — I think we might actually just have a fundamental disagreement about ethics and romance. I don’t believe that trying to break up a relationship that’s in it’s early stages is “shitty” or “lousy;” it feels morally neutral to me.
I actually just went to a wedding recently, where my close friend married her boyfriend of six years. This friend was previously dating her now-husband’s best friend. They were dating for about a month and a half, while my friend and her now-husband were hanging out socially, in groups and occasionally one-on-one. Unbeknownst to her, he had a crush on her. Eventually, he wrote her a letter explaining how he felt about her. In the letter, he said that he knows he’s asking her to break up with her boyfriend for him, and he would understand if she is angry at him enough for asking that she didn’t ever want to hang out with him again, but he’d regret forever if he didn’t tell her.
She dumped her then-boyfriend that same weekend, and six years later they’re on a honeymoon to Japan and are going to make a family together.
Her boyfriend at the time got over it, and he now lives in a different city in the same state. When he’s back in town, we all hang out still and he has as good a time as anyone.
Now, could it have gone in the opposite way? Sure. That would’ve been really awkward. But there are a hierarchy of ethical values, and to me, the values of honesty and respecting other people’s freedoms and creating opportunities for joy are SO much more important than loyalty. The number of loving relationships I know of that began when someone had feelings for someone currently in a relationship is pretty high. Cheating is destructive, but asking someone out if they’re dating someone else is ethically fine. It’s taking a big risk! But the asker risks their own pride, not some valuable external thing*.
Joyce is not quite in the same boat. She is not straightforwardly, honestly asking Jacob to break up with Raidah. Mainly because she hasn’t admitted to herself yet that she even wants to be Jacob’s girlfriend. But if she does, I firmly believe that’s a morally ok thing to do. Seems like a lot of people might agree to disagree here, though.
*the ONLY exception is if the person has children with their current S/O, because children are vulnerable and lack the agency adults have in their own lives, so in that case the highest ethic is to protect their wellbeing
Trying to punish someone by stealing their boyfriend is a super shitty thing to do, because there’s not just one person being affected by that, but two.
Jacob is not a toy to be taken away. He is a person with his own agency, thoughts, and feelings. It’s extremely gross of Sarah, Joyce, et. all to ignore all that just to get back at Raidah.
Sarah is the only one trying to punish Raidah.
Joyce just wants to make Sarah happy and thinks romance fixes everything. She seems to be completely unaware of Sarah’s ulterior motives
No, Joyce is absolutely aware of Sarah’s motives: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/conceding/
And she’s still a willing participant.
But surely she realizes that for Sarah to be happy Jacob and Raidah will have to break up?
hopefully she’s remembering/realizing that out now, and hopefully she’ll think seriously about it and not just retreat into denial.
@the-final-pam
“He is a person with his own agency, thoughts, and feelings.” It’s weird how we both have the same observation, but very different conclusions. Jacob has agency! That means he should absolutely be given the knowledge to make the best decisions for himself. He should be allowed to know that Joyce has feelings for him as well as Raidah, if only so he can freely *choose* which relationship is best for him, rather than defaulting to the one he’s already in.
“The only way Sarah’s revenge plan would work would be if Jacob genuinely believes that Joyce would be a better girlfriend than Raidah. ”
um. nooooo. there are so many ways for this to explode horribly for everyone.
And it’s *very* unfair to assume Jacob has magical perfect willpower. Add in his Shortpacked history, and it’s both unfair and unlikely.
“Sarah’s revenge doesn’t work without Jacob’s consent”
and that’s wrong on *two* levels – the issue of willpower above, plus the fact that a relationship requires two people, and jacob is only one of them. Even if Jacob makes his will save, Raidah might not believe him.
Seems like you missed my point.
“I want Sarah and Jacob become a couple because I think they would be great together” is not a revenge story, but a looking out for the wellbeing of a good friend story. The point is not making Raidah unhappy but making Sarah happy. Those are two different motivations for maybe doing the same thing, but Joyce being out to hurt someone looks totally different.
But in this instance you can’t spate them because one outcome, Sarah happy, will most likely make another outcome, that of Raidah being unhappy
spate? separate…
yes. And though motivation doesn’t necessarily exempt from blame for consequences, I do not see why Joyce should be criticized for a narrative that’s not hers, a motivation that’s not hers.
(Also, losing a lover of three weeks is much to small a revenge on a bully, so it strikes me as rather ridiculous how much this heats up the discussion.)
It doesn’t matter how long they’ve been dating, trying to break up their relationship is incredibly disrespectful to both parties.
Also, Jacob is a person. He’s not an object to be taken away from an unruly child. Everyone’s attitude in this completely disregards his agency and feelings.
Which from previous conversations, especially around being a sexual object, we know Jacob takes that sort of thing pretty seriously
There is something I seriously don’t get here.
They are basicly teens whose average relationship lasts half a year if they are lucky.
No one is not putting down Raidha, even though certain of her behaviors provide ample material. Joyce was flirting with Jacob and didn’t realize it while trying to show up Sarah in a favorable light.
There are no dirty tricks involved. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be ok.
“They are basicly teens whose average relationship lasts half a year if they are lucky.”
So that’s all right then?
“There are no dirty tricks involved. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be ok.”
Sarah sent Joyce out to wreck the relationship and Joyce is fully aware that Jacob and Raidah have to break up if Jacob is to be with Sarah, that’s why its shitty behaviour
Teen relationships may tend to be short, but they’re intense. Break ups and betrayals still hurt like hell.
It’s not okay because manipulating someone is always super shitty? And going to hang out with someone, with the explicit intention of trying to sway them to break up with their current significant other to date your friend, is very manipulative. And, again, let me reiterate: no one here is giving a shit about Jacob’s agency. That’s why it’s not okay.
lol druggie she smokes weed jesus….
Anything overdone is harmful, and it was overdone to the point where Sarah was being affected. Additionally, IIRC, there was some escalating to harder drugs or at least Sarah was afraid that was happening. And Sarah herself was being effected by, yes, Dana’s extremely heavy drug use.
This drives me bonkers. ‘It’s just weed’ does not mean it’s not drug abuse, does not mean it’s not harmful, does not mean Dana didn’t have a serious and legitimate problem.
Sarah seems more worried that the weed wasn’t helping as much anymore (hence increased usage) and that Dana would end up committing suicide if it stopped helping completely.
Tbh I really don’t care that Joyce is in the wrong. I wanna see raidah fall
Yeah, I think Willis wrote too hateable a character for my rational person brain to overtake my petty desire to see her get wrecked. I’m not that good a person, petty revenge is delicious.
Man, most of my classes for my major aren’t segregated by year, so sometimes I look at the freshman and their baby faces and think “wow, was I that young?” and then sometimes I’m like “Wait, you’re a freshman, you don’t look like one?!”
Age is weird in college and we’re all actually children. Even as a senior, I am a child. …It kinda trips me out realizing that I was in high school? Or freshman year? when I started reading DoA, and now I’m older than them. Are any of them 21 yet? I can’t be older than Sarah. I don’t feel older than Sarah. In my head I’m still Joyce.
I started reading Shortpacked…hmm, junior year of high school? I’m almost certain I remember reading it in the computer lab where I had my “intro to coding” class (where we learned Visual Basic from a textbook and literally almost nothing else)
That was 2007
…god, the passage of time is horrifying. That was a decade ago.
I remember being mad about the ending to It’s Walky being behind a paywall. I like to think it was because I was too young to have a credit card, and not because “information wants to be freeeeee” 😉
… wait… VB in *2007*? dear god. I’d expect them to have moved on to Java by then.
my high school switched from turbo pascal to c++ the year I took my first programming class. 🙂 that was… quite a few years earlier… back when midi music on websites was still a thing 🙂
Some schools change the language for first programming very late.
Because Pascal teaches structure 😝
My brother was three years later, and by then they’d switched to Java. I was so mad.
“That was a decade ago”
Please stop talking.
Does Jacob never get laid
Iirc he’s saving it for marriage.
If thats true then I imagine it’ll be something similar to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOwRRf6_3C4
IIRC he just wants a serious relationship before they mess around.
Yeah, I don’t think “saving it for marriage” ever came up from Jacob.
Apparently they’re “fooling around”, whatever that translates to exactly.
I think this is the first time we’ve seen Jacob directly suggest anything sexual. I wonder if it means anything that he does so right after spending the morning flirting with Joyce?
probably not
I like Chanise. She lets Charlotte carry the bulk of the argument but at the end she steps in with a short, pithy observation that changes Raidah’s worldview.
“Fool around”? Is the implication that he and Raidah are so serious that Jacob lost his virginity to her, or is that supposed to be a euphemism for something else?
To me, “fool around” can mean just heavy kissing and petting.
In this scenario, I think that ‘fool around’ is ‘have fun and do inconsequential non-class related things’.
This potentially leads us to an insight as to where the Joyce-Jacob-Raidah triangle may go and what Raidah may need to do. If ‘having a good time, relaxing and having fun’ is something that Jacob associates with Joyce, it will undermine his relationship with Raidah pretty quickly. I’ve got a horrible feeling that Raidah may over-compensate either by persecuting Joyce or by trying to reinvent herself as a happy-go-lucky good-time girl.
I’m not at all sure Jacob was a virgin. He’s talked about wanting a serious relationship, not just casual sex, but he’s also talked about having girlfriends – some of which may have qualified as “serious”, or he may have developed this policy after some less serious, but sexual relationships.
I call all fictional characters younger than me babies or children (I’m 21) but that’s a) affectionately, b) not hurting anybody and c) a joke. Don’t be shitty, Raidah.
“I’m 5% older than you, that means I get to call you a child!”
Well, at least that’s one thing Raidah and Sarah have in common: an unearned sense of superiority.
To be clear, we’ve seen Sarah do the exact same thing, refer to the freshmen as “children” on multiple occasions.
“It’s amazing how young 12 can look when you’re 13.”
That is literally just how you start seeing first years/ freshman from the second year of university/ college. It’s almost unavoidable.
I was initially wondering what kinds of names “Chan” and “Char” were. When I went back to earlier strips they introduced themselves and “Chanise” and “Charlotte”, which are far more reasonable names.
I like the names too. Though ‘nicknames as real names’ was once a real thing, in like the 50s or 60s.
I have a friend called Kim- as in that’s her legal first name, which is pretty uncommon here, to the point where she has trouble with people assuming it’s short for Kimberly.
And I had a stepbrother who chose with his partner to call their daughter Lottie. Again- that as a name is uncommon, rather than it being a nickname of Charlotte.
That’s late 80s and early 00s respectively. So I guess it’s still a thing for some people?
Oh, yeah, but people are always gonna buck general naming trends. And yeah, I’ve known a girl called Tasha who hated when people tried to call her Natasha when they were trying to be formal (which usually translated to condescending or lecturing).
How is Natasha formal??????
The full name is Natalia…
I’ve never heard of Natasha being short for Natalia.
It certainly wasn’t the case for either of the ones I’ve known
Kim is a legit name by any standard, though where I’m from it’s considered a name for boys. I’d also say Lottie is legit, though Lotte would be far more common, and yes it is a variation of Charlotte.
“Char” and “Chan” make me think of burnt food and 4chan respectively, though.
Bagge yesterday: Raidah is pretty chill. She trusts Jacob and gives him agency.
Bagge yesterday: DANGIT!!!
Hey, Jacob, why don’t you ask JOYCE if she wants to “fool around” with you?
I mean, Bagge Today: DANGIT!!!
Yeah, I had a suspicion that the “no jealousy” Raidah was about to depart the station for good.
It seems like we have ourselves an AAAAAAALPHA BONGO!!!
I assume that’s to be spoken in the same tones as IIROOOOOOOOOON CHEF!
More like Leeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
This is the point when Raidah jumps from being just a somewhat-unpleasant person to being an out-and-out antagonist. Of course, someone who is evidently motivated primarily by selfish feelings was always going to easily skip into that category.
Final Panel Radiah: Well shit, that creates creepy implications about the phrasing of my words in my mind. Note to self, be a little less melodramatic.
Heh, yes, that was my reaction, too. ‘Well, shit, now I feel like a pedo…’
I don’t get ‘Eww, am I a pedophile?”.
I get Raidah wondering if Jacob is temptable, if for all his friendly seriousness (no wild drunkfests or sleazy hookups AFAIK, wears a suit to church every Sunday) if he is to be this way for all his college career.
She was a frosh last year and has seen many people change from Move In Day to start of sophomore year.
(Disclaimer: When I was 26 I met my wife, who was 35. That was the last century. We will tease each other about certain chronological facts such as “When I graduated college, you weren’t in high school yet.”)
it’s not meant literally; more as a joke. She called Joyce a child, and Jacob is joyce’s age, so one could argue she called Jacob a child, and only pedophiles and children date children. 🙂
But they’re meant for each other…probably.
“Homeschooled nobody” descriptor sounds like it’s coming from the same person who doesn’t understand how compelling an achievement Joyce’s slugging Toedad is.
Now, where did Jacob’s brother get?
Jacob’s brother got to the top, evidently.
I’ll figure that’s not “Top of the world, Ma!”, until shown otherwise.
More about Jacob’s family is forthcoming, I hope. After some of the parents we saw on Freshman Family Weekend (Danny’s, Walky & Sal’s, Joyce’s mom, Ethan’s, to say the least), it’d be nice to find out who raised how Jacob got to be this nice, put-together, and friendly fellow.
I hope for more Jacob in general. I actually really like this incarnation of him, and I adore the fact that he and Joyce can banter the way they do about religion. It’s utterly adorable.
Uh oh. Not so above jealousy after all, are we Raidah?
Good thing Joyce has her friends.
I mean, this *could* potentially be salvaged. Joyce needs to abandon her plan to break these two up and rein in her crush, and Raidah must not do anything rash.
But since this comic still isn’t called “smarting of age”…
No, see, this isn’t -jealousy-. She isn’t -jealous- of Joyce who she genuinely perceives as a homeschooled nobody.
She just sees her as a threat. To her private property. Which Jacob surely is.
Yeah.
This kinda gives me the vibes that previous classism against Sarah wasn’t a one-time thing, but she generally categorize well-off people as good, and people of lesser background as a lower brand than herself.
Her argument for why Joyce isn’t a threat isn’t primarily that she’s a year younger, but because she isn’t pre-law, and she’s homeschooled. She sees Joyce as uncultured, and therefore beneath Jacob and herself. She doesn’t see Joyce kindness to her friends or her courage to stand up against bullying authority figures as traits that is of equal quality, because they won’t land you a good job and a good income.
Makes me think she and Jacob might break up over Joyce, but not in the sense that he feels attraction to Joyce, but rather that Jacob sees this kind of classism as a deal breaker for if Raidah is a good person that he wants to be with.
Oddly enough Raidah is presented very similarly here to the Walkyverse version of Sarah but without the semi-neurotic “I have to do this bad thing! It’s my social and professional role!” excuses.
Definitely! The classism comes off her in waves here as it has in encounters past.
Uh oh.
Damn, Raidah, you were doing pretty well there for a while. But “she’s a nobody” is the core of all kinds of class elitism, and a very bad look.
Damn, Jacob is a Freshman? He’s more mature than I am.
I assume Raidah is talking about Jacob’s other brother, not the one who’s a porn star.
I have to reminding myself that Sarah put Joyce up to this in the first place.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: It’s interesting here that Jacob is feeling like “fooling around” however he defines that (as we know that he gets worried about the intensity of certain types of feelings and isn’t fully sure what he wants to do or not do) right after a long flirting session with Joyce. So I suspect his subconscious is catching on even if his conscious brain is still in the weeds on Joyce Brown (ELEVATOR OPERATOR: Joyce S. Brown).
And Raidah here… oh dear. Like, we have known for a bit about Raidah’s flaws. Like she was a bully who has utterly refused to hear Sarah’s perspective and reasoning and tormented her for a period of time (which, even if your friend is in a bad spot, tormenting the person who put them there in a panic isn’t really going to help anyone).
Plus, Raidah has some massive privilege blinders, whether it be her classism or patronizing ableism as seen when she tried to interact with Dina as if she was an ignorant child, which has also wrapped into her interactions with Sarah (both not respecting the precarious financial position Sarah was in and not respecting that Sarah might have had her own things going on that caring for Dana was exacerbating).
And here… like, dude, no. Bringing up family members to guilt people into doing things is not a cool thing to do, especially something like this where it seems like Jacob has a little bit of an inferiority complex with regards to his brother.
And like, it’s an unnecessary dig. Like, Jacob’s pretty chill, it would have been easy to say “Sorry, not really feeling it, besides you were saying you had a lot of homework and that’s probably more important”.
Like, yes, coming up with the perfect words in the moment is hard and I don’t blame Raidah for being a kid who’s screwing up, but it’s the type of screw-up that raises red flags for me. Like, it’s such a sideways way to approach this especially when paired with the stirrings of jealousy we start to see in later panels.
Panels 3-5: Bad friends can sometimes make you a worse person. And here, Char embodies that to a T here in stirring the pot of jealousy and making it about defending the territory of “your man” and poking the bear further about how cute she was.
Like, ew, no, jealousy is a complex feeling for many and it doesn’t need help from shitty friends who want to stir up drama and conflict. And we see the negative effect almost immediately. Raidah immediately goes on the defensive and does so in an intensely classist fashion, slamming Joyce essentially for being poorly educated which is what?*
*Like, seriously, if you really wanted to knock Joyce, there’s so many better options that wouldn’t immediately paint you as a classist piece of shit. Especially as it almost immediately backfires. Like, if you’re slamming someone for having “bad breeding” but they are in exactly the same school that you are, what does that say about you who had every advantage in the world, then it invites immediate comparison in a way that will make you even more defensive.
And it’s just plain shitty. Classism is shitty and it’s especially shitty in our broken economic system where the rich have drained the lifeblood of everyone else and is straight up trying to condemn the poor to death where it can. And the fact that Raidah immediately went there tells you a lot about her values. That she values wealth and “good breeding” over other qualities and immediately looks down on those without the luck to be born into economically privileged families.
Panel 5: And way to paint yourself into a corner of feeling like a pedophile there Raidah.
Now, it’ll be interesting to see where this goes, whether Raidah recognizes her negative traits and seeks to correct them (as she did with recognizing her bullying behavior with Sarah and ending it) or if she continues to show more and more of her flaws as she feels more defensive, jealous, and under attack.
I was definitely wondering about that with Jacob. I wonder if Raidah caught the same thing.
Raidah’s clearly heading off in nasty directions with her response, but I’m not sure the initial reaction is really a bad thing. Joyce really is the one out of line here. Some kind of defensive reaction to someone trying to break up your relationship seems appropriate.
I’ve had someone trying to break up my relationship. I reacted to it by telling my partner “So and so is trying to break up our relationship” and we had a nice conversation about how I had nothing to fear. That’s how a *healthy* relationship handles that kind of threat. Raidah apparently isn’t comfortable enough with Jacob to say “And this thing is making me nervous.”
Jacob did mention that he had experienced jealous ex-girlfriends before. And since he still seems to be oblivious, there’s a chance that if Raidah tells him what’s going on, he thinks she’s just another jealous girlfriend.
Not that I don’t think that’s the right thing to do, mind. Honesty from any of the people involved in this situation would clear the whole thing up pretty quickly. I can just see it going the other way, for drama.
Given how Jacob is going off to church and lunch with a girl who’s blatantly crushing on him and may be reciprocating the flirtation, even if he’s pretty much oblivious to it, those jealous girlfriends may have had a point.
If he has a habit of close flirty friendships with girls who have crushes on him those can easily turn romantic, even with no bad intent.
“Raidah apparently isn’t comfortable enough with Jacob to say “And this thing is making me nervous.””
I think she didn’t get nervous until the last panel above, so, that remains to be seen.
I still don’t see all the hatred for Raidah outside her mean comments to Dina. All of her other faults could easily be applied to some other member of the main cast, but it’s okay for the character we like to be bad because we like them. It just just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Not saying the girl is perfect, but neither is any member of the cast. Just seems strange that everything Raidah does is interpreted as inherently evil or completely irredeemable. I could be eating my words in a couple weeks, but I just wanted to express that.
No you’re not wrong. Raidah bringing up Jacobs brother is assumed to be a negative whereas it could just as easily been a motivator.
We know Jacob wants to become successful and he must have brought up his brother to Raidah and now Raidahs helping Jacob towards his goal and this is a bad thing?
Also everyone seems to be forgetting that Raidah has just seen a cute girl (no matter what Raidah thinks she does have eyes) flirting with her boyfriend and yet Raidahs getting scorn for how shes reacting?
Bringing up his brother definitely IS intended as a motivator. That doesn’t make it an inherently good thing, and a lot of people see it as bad way to try and motivate someone.
And most people aren’t blaming Raidah for feeling hostile towards Joyce. They’re blaming her for expressing that through classist snobbery
I take it (until further evidence is submitted) that she is being supportive and that it is what Jacob wants as he doesn’t fight it at all and the whole “eyes on the prize” suggests to me that its something they’ve both discussed
From this it seems like Jacob/Dorothy would be a better match
No, some people are definitely getting onto Raidah for expressing jealousy.
Because if she was really confident in her relationship with Jacob, she should just let everyone flirt with him in front of her, right? /s
I’m disliking her for how she’s expressing that jealousy, rather than that she has a problem with it.
You’re wrong about one thing: There are TWO members of the cast who are perfect.
Panel 1 to me actually felt more like some kind of inside joke on both sides? Hard to say without hearing tone, but that’s how it read to me
Panels 3-5: Absolutely yes, to the point that it makes me wonder how much of what we see negative of Raidah is actually Chan & Char’s influence. For all that Raidah is presented (at least to us readers) as the figurehead and spokesperson of the trio, it seems like whenever Chan or Char speaks up, Raidah is mild in comparison. Admittedly we don’t exactly have a large pool of examples of Chan or Char speaking up.
I don’t think Raidah will see her negative traits. Not because of any dislike I have for Raidah, just experience with this personality type. They never let go of the view that they are right, and they never forgive a perceived wrong.
She looks like a beetle.
Also my last word on Raidah is whatever else you feel about her, it’s becoming increasingly likely that Sarah diming on Dana was an excuse for her to be who she really is, whatever that is. Whether she’s more an excuse than a loss has yet to be scientifically proven.
But I’m gonna go ahead and hypothesize she’s always been a piece of shit who thinks she’s above consequences.
And on a more selfish note, I’m really hoping she isn’t actually Arab, because I’d rather she not be the only representative of my ethnicity in the active student cast (I don’t think Asma counts). Though I’d be the first to admit there are way too many Raidahs in my community thanks to the shitty way the bougeoise raise their kids in the Middle East.
Let’s hope for Asma becoming a more prominent character!
Also, I think there was someone Arab/Muslim in Billie’s new dorm? Unless I’m misremembering?
That would be Nash, and yes please more of them both
Nash might not be Arab or Muslim. She might be! Do we know her full name / surname? So far we’re just going based on skin tone and headdress (unless she’s in Shortpacked, which I’ve never read). I totally bombed the “Can you tell this person’s religion by their religious clothing?” quiz, so I’m hesitant to guess what religion someone is now just based on clothes (the quiz is here: http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/06/can-you-tell-these-womens-religions-from-their-veils-6175120/ )
And I’m worried Jacob’s gonna end up becoming a Danny before long.
There are far worse things to be
Correction, early Danny, where he was chasing around Amber’s alter ego and shafting the real deal.
bleep bleep mimimi
FINALLY. It’s BP guys, something weird happened. Did I get blocked?
I guess it’s just my screenname? Weird.
were you playing gravatar roulette? that got a *lot* of us sent to /dev/null. I think I got out by changing both my email and name at the same time (and then waiting for willis to approve my comment)
No, not for a few weeks – at least not on purpose. That could be it though.
Okay so hear me out here: Raidah and co are networking.
Dana said it herself, that’s part of what college is about. Her dad runs a law firm, so she’s a pretty good target for networking. But she went off the rails, Sarah phoned him, and now A) she’s not gonna be able to do Raidah any favours and B) her dad just knows them as the friends who stood by while his daughter nearly died. No wonder they’re so pissed off at Sarah – not only did she take away their friend, she scuppered their reputation with a potentially useful patron.
Now there’s Jacob, and his brother is apparently in an important position – and Raidah knows it. She’s trying to land a boy with good connections, which isn’t necessarily scuzzy in and of itself, but her friends seem to have a vested interest too. Kind of like a lioness hunting down a gazelle for the pack to feast on, except the innards are actually good job offers for her and her pals.
Maybe this is unfair, and I’m definitely not saying this is her ENTIRE motive for dating The Most Beautiful Man On Campus Who’s Also A Nice Guy (though she IS turning down an offer to fool around with him, and speaking as someone into dudes What The Fuck Are You Doing Raidah), but it’s something to think about, at least.
holy fuck that jacob gravatar is too on the nose
I was initially skeptical about this, but Raidah’s comments in panel 3 make me think you might be on to something.
This makes more sense than I like to admit.
I admit, I was initially skeptical, but the more I read this the more it makes sense. Still doesn’t redeem Raidah for her treatment of Sarah, though.
..Hmm.
((tbqh even if i think someone’s gorgeous that doesn’t mean im in the mood all the time,, or even most of the time :p and it’s not like that’s a one time offer anyway))
Outstanding theory. I think it’s entirely possible.
Yyyep, still don’t like Raidah.
And apparently whatever was wrong is fixed, I just can’t post under my old name is all. Odd.
OK, to be honest, I don’t understand the malice directed toward Raidah with respect to this strip. Other than throwing some patronizing but mild insults at Joyce behind her back, I don’t see her doing or saying anything wrong here yet. She’s just worried Jacob might fall for Joyce (or that Joyce may try to break them up, which is entirely accurate).
It’s mostly that Sarah presuming to know her own roommate better than Raidah does, trying to help said roommate with her troubles, trying to keep her scholarship, telling the truth and other such things Raidah thinks are awful has spurred Raidah to try to ruin Sarah’s life in order to protect people from her; in short, we think she’s a bad person and find fault with everything she does.
And it probably also helps that we want to like Joyce and thus want to find some redeeming value in her plan to ruin Jacob’s relationship so Sarah can pick up the pieces. Which, come on people, it may be a bad relationship for Jacob but Joyce isn’t going to never mess up, that’s not the kind of protagonist she is.
Joyce is doing a bad thing, but being very nice about it.
Raidah is understandably not pleased with that, but she’s showing signs of not being at all nice about it.
Raidah so far has 0 redeeming qualities. It’s natural to want to see her fall
I really don’t dislike her. Also i like how more relaxed and different he is around her apparently. athough it is also of the ‘horn dog” variety which is a weird thing..
but yeah joyce is a worrisome one.
but main bit being…..
The brother? Did she know him? Is he his goal or is she projecting some past onto him?
need some info on that cause that could cause the relationship dynamics to be.. rather stilted one way or the other
called it! just cuz raidah can be polite to joyce’s face doesnt mean she’s not terrible
I take back every nice thing I’ve ever said about Raidah. Even the things that are true.
Also, CURSE YOU DAVID!
Oh right, I forgot about these assholes.
Still being assholes, I see.
This is a very interesting strip for me; despite Joyce and Sarah’s plan to break up Jacob and Raidah (the goal in itself for Sarah, while Joyce at least intends Sarah to pick up the pieces), Joyce isn’t actually being that effective. She didn’t talk up Sarah very effectively, and she didn’t talk down Raidah at all. She spent a morning at church and went to lunch with a nice guy. Knowing Joyce, she’s realized she was flirting and will spend time trying to decide whether she really wants to be this person.
Raidah, however, thanks to her friends, may well be on a mission to destroy Joyce first. We have seen how Raidah deals with people she believes have crossed her. She destroyed Sarah’s social life, what little there was, through a campaign of steadfast bullying and character assassination that lasted an entire year.
I wonder if Raidah is about to destroy her own relationship, honestly. I don’t think Jacob will stand for Raidah’s brand of destruction when it’s targeting a friend who, to his knowledge, has done nothing to warrant it.
Good point and further onto that if Jacob learns what Joyces goal was it’d probably make him a bit pissed, at both Joyce and Sarah, that he was being manipulated especially given he said he doesn’t like being treated like an object which is what Sarah, especially, is doing
I kind of hope so. Joyce needs to learn a lesson about meddling in other people’s relationships (effectively or not) and I don’t want her rewarded by having it all work out with her dating Jacob.
As much as I like the idea of them as a couple, her approach here should torpedo the ship.
I doubt Raidah will be very effective at destroying Joyce’s social life, other than with Jacob. Joyce has loyal friends and is very outgoing, not a grouchy misanthrope like Sarah. Much as I like Sarah, she’s the perfect target for that kind of campaign.
I dunno, Billie seems quite susceptible to flattery and perceived social status so theres an in
I agree, Raidah’s not going to be effective vs. Joyce as she was against Sarah, but her previous/historical tactics are almost certain to cost her Jacob’s regard if she resorts to them.
I think, in the end, Joyce will probably be able to mend fences with Jacob with a sincere and heartfelt apology, because she is going to understand the wrong eventually. I don’t think Sarah or Raidah will get out that easily.
True, Joyce is pretty good at owning up to her faults and apologising for them
yeah 🙂 that seems like the ideal outcome; Raidah destroying the relationship herself while Joyce apologizes. And maybe Jacob decides to stay single for a while.
A thought has occurred to me.
If Raidah decides to make Joyce her enemy … then Sarah will stop holding back.
… MAKE A BAD DECISION RAIDAH, MAMA NEEDS HER CATHARSIS.
I think you found the secret second drama tag.
Jacob buddy, you’re better off on your own.
…I can’t believe Sarah was right. I can’t believe her attitude of ‘Raidah is a horrible person and therefore bad for Jacob’ was actually spot-on.
Watch my objections to the ‘hook up Joyce with Jacob’ plan dissolve like human flesh in a vat of acid…
Ugh. There goes my hope Raidah was just the special kind of shortsighted horrible to Sarah and obliviously ableist.
Lots of people in the comments are confused about why people are turning on Raidah here, so let me elaborate.
Remember the conversation about jealousy Raidah had with Jacob way back when? One that led many people to have higher opinions on her?
You’d think she’d shut down that kind of talk from her flunkies… but no, she engages in this as an apparently normal thing to talk about. So she lied to Jacob and is talking about him behind his back in a way she told him she never would. Strike one.
She refers to Joyce as a ‘ridiculous homeschooled nobody’ because that’s the criterions to take into account when dating, apparently. This brings back up her interactions with Sarah and the obvious classism issues (she thought Sarah worrying about her grades was ‘selfish’ not realizing that Sarah gets -one- chance and ruining it means ruining her entire life). That was not a one-off thing, this is clearly an ongoing attitude thing for her. Strike two.
Then, they’re ‘safe’ apparently. What the fuck does that mean? Safe from what? How exactly is the possibility of Jacob breaking up with her in favor of Joyce a threat to her friendgroup? Oh look, there was an apparently successful brother mentioned in the first panel… and Raidah talked to Sarah about ‘making connections’ before… And then there’s panel four. Joyce is a child, and Jacob is too. Raidah appears to consider freshment to be a step in development below her, not worth dating unless you’re down there with them… well, fair enough. Then why is she dating Jacob? If she thought of him as an exception that proves the rule, the reminder that he’s a freshmen wouldn’t have made her change her mind. Either she thinks of him as another child, or she doesn’t… Add all of that together, and strike. Fucking. Three.
To sum all of that up, Raidah is dishonest with Jacob. She does not earnestly engage with him as an equal, she views him as a ‘catch’ because of his family connections (most likely his brother, but there might be a bigger dynasty). What she tells him about her motivations in the relationship and the way she talks about it to her friends are not even tenuously connected. Like, there’s just… nothing there. Sure, Jacob is comfortable in the relationship right now, but it’s built on lies and lies.
Raidah does not view other people as -people-. It’s not just a Sarah thing. She sees Dina as a small child, Joyce as nobody-except-a-possible-threat-to-her-relationship-with-Jacob, Jacob as… basically property, as seen here. Like, seriously, she does not afford him any agency at all, and he’s her boyfriend. Her reaction to speculation he might like Joyce is not ‘he won’t like her’, it’s ‘we’re safe’. Her relationship with Jacob is just… not about Jacob at all.
Just, no. Raidah is disgusting, and the fact she’s mature, well-educated and socially conscious enough to make compelling digs at Joyce, shut down ableist slurs from her flunkie and play-act ‘reasonable mature non-jealous girlfriend’ for Jacob just makes it worse. She’s not like this out of ignorance and inexperience, this is the way she chooses to be.
Gross.