We didn’t so much skip the entire storyline where Faz and Dina get married as we erased it from our collective memory, it was so horrifying. So it’s just like we skipped it.
Cause this is apparently the first strip in faz is great, and I think willis said something about there still being 11ish strips in face the strange, not to mention the absence of strips in this is the way that we love
What’s interesting to me is the one she used seems less natural in that sentence than alternatives. If that’s intentional, since contractions aren’t natural to her, that’s pretty cool.
Apparently, some people actually use contractions where forms of “have” or “has” are contracted, followed by “not”, such as “I’ve not”, and consider it to sound just fine, but I still prefer the sound of “I haven’t”. Meh, personal preference, I guess.
Amber has always been kind towards Dina, accepting her quirks and helping her to cope with social situations while acknowledging that this stuff can be really hard to do. And she saved Becky (as AG).
Dina knows that Amber is unhappy and caught up in a heck of a lot of self-loathing but she also knows that Amber is kind and brave and truly accepting of others. She has also seen enough of Blaine to understand that he would have been deeply damaging as a parent.
Dina is brave and loyal and caring and I don’t think Amber is going to be able to push her away easily. (Not 100% sure how she would react if Amber lashes out at her like she did Danny but suspect she would talk it over with Becky/Sarah and they would recognise it as a sign Amber needs help rather than condemnation…)
Self-sabotaging Amber is better than “Doing her best Blaine Impression at Danny” Amber, but still awfully depressing.
(Not physically abusive, but emotionally. Amber said some pretty despicable shit to him near the end, which I am a little concerned she barely seems to have acknowledged, focusing entirely on her physically violent side)
I think the comic needs more Sierra. I was thinking about the various roommate pairings, and I couldn’t remember whose Dorothy’s was, and I just want to see them interact more.
Right now I empathise so much with Dina’s speechlessness in the last 2 panels, because I’ve been in so many situations where I’m trying to cheer someone up while they keep on insisting they are a monster and a failure and I know they aren’t, but I have no idea of what to say to them to make them feel better about themselves
I kind of cringe at the idea of “trying to cheer someone up” when they’re like that, even though I know it’s a normal response. Sometimes it might be helpful, depending on your relationship and what the person needs from you at that moment, but in general I don’t see it as being so.
Also, you can’t really “make” someone feel better about themselves. You can try to help them, but…there’s just so much emphasis on trying to fix people in so many interactions with those who are struggling, I feel, when that’s often not as beneficial as we want it to be.
Oh, sorry, upon hindsight the wording came across like I wanted to force them to feel better. I meant that I hate to see my friends beat themselves up over non existential faults or overexaggerated shortcomings and I want to help them.
Also, why do you think that cheering people up is a bad idea?(just curious).
Because, well, look how you phrased it: /you/ hate seeing them beat themselves up; /you/ want to help them. Often this desire to cheer people up, to try to help fix them, comes from a place of our own desire, our own discomfort. And so we say things that communicate “please don’t be sad” instead of “I will be here with you while you are sad.”
Sometimes cheering someone up can make sense– for smaller, more tangible things, in my opinion. Sometimes, though, it’s like giving someone a bandaid when they’re bleeding internally.
To give a personal and kind of extreme example of well intentioned cheering up:
A few years ago, I was home from college on winter break and I was incredibly depressed; in fact, I was suicidal. I couldn’t stop crying, I was scared, I struggled to ask for help.
My parents hated seeing me in so much pain; they wanted to cheer me up. So they suggested we all go to an arcade.
Now, I love arcades. Love them. But I wanted to die, not go to a fucking arcade. But here were these well-meaning people that I loved, trying to help me by stopping me from being sad. So we went to the arcade, and from what I can remember, we had a pretty good time. I enjoyed myself while we were there.
Holy crap, I’m so sorry you had to go through that! And, um, what would then be a better way of trying to help people in really bad situations without eventually leading to more harm?
I’m coming out of the woodwork as a ghost for the first time after reading this comic for years cause I gotta add something to this thread.
Over the years of being a person who gets sad and having friends who get sad in different ways, usually there are a few different things that any given person needs or wants from other people.
1. A distraction/to be “cheered up”
This is pretty normal. Normal people with normal sadness levels and relatively intact coping mechanisms just need a little (or perhaps big!) boost from somebody in their support network to help them cope with and move past how they are feeling. If you or somebody else is looking for this, it might actually not help at all for them to dwell on their feelings for any longer than necessary. You can tell people how great you think they are, and try to be as genuine and specific about it as possible. Don’t just say “aw, no, you’re great!”. Break out the big guns. “Truthfully, x y and z are things I have always admired about you, and nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise.”
2. Practical advice.
Sometimes, people in a slump might need an extra push. They are overwhelmed by circumstances and feel helpless. Sometimes a person might need someone on the outside of their head speaking rational sense to help break them out of cycles of negative intrusive thoughts, or genuine advice on how they can help themselves cope better. Like…usually a therapist is the most qualified to give that kind of advice, but if your friend seems willing to listen to any suggestions you might have, go for it.
For example, a friend of mine tells me how he’s been wracking his brain for hours trying to think about things to do for Inktober drawings, how he was really looking forward to trying to stick it out for the whole month. But he imposes all these rules on what things he’s allowed to draw and how he should draw them, no ideas are good ones, he’s a failure and oh his abusive mother also added to the joy by making him feel like any time he spends on Inktober drawings is an utter waste. I told him that it’s admirable that he wanted to do it for the whole month, his mother doesn’t know how much these drawings meant to him, but he is putting far too much pressure on himself and is worrying over things that ultimately do not matter. But I know the anxieties don’t just go away, so maybe he should try and let go of his need to do a drawing every single day (if that’s easier to let go of then the restrictions on each drawing), and allow himself some time to get out of that negative head space and tackle the drawing again at a later time. It’s okay to miss a few days of inktober, and nobody says you can’t keep doing ink drawings in November too. Be kind to yourself. You tried!
3. A listening ear/emotional validation
This can be kind of difficult. Sometimes people just need to be sad. In fact, the only way to move on from deep hurts is to be able to acknowledge the depth and truth of those hurts, and then take steps to move on from them. You can’t get around it, make it go away, or fix it for them. Or hell, maybe you COULD, but sometimes if YOU are the one to fix this thing for them, you rob them of the closure of having moved past something on their own power. If they are struggling with feelings of helplessness, that can kind of just….delay the inevitable.
So those times, you just try to engage with how they feel. If they want to talk about it, listen intently. If they feel open to answering questions about it, ask some to show you are engaged, and also to help you understand how they are feeling better. Tell them “yeah, wow, that SUCKS.” or “I’m really sorry that happened, it’s totally understandable for you to feel that way.” If they don’t want to talk about it, don’t push, but just let them know that you are there for them.
IMPORTANT
It is absolutely imperative you know WHICH the other person wants, because if they want one and get another, it’s disaster. If someone wants advice or reassurance and all they get is “wow, that sucks!”, that’s fucking frustrating and unhelpful. If someone is looking for validation and all they get are you ignoring their feelings to force them to feel better, or preaching at them about how they SHOULD be acting or feeling, that’s also shitty. If somebody is just looking to get cheered up and distracted from their pain, a “that sucks!” or dwelling on things through unwanted advice is ALSO unhelpful.
So generally. The thing to do here is ASK. Ask what the person things they want or need before you try anything at all. Unless you know them and their patterns well enough to simply instinctively know what they usually need. But even then, it can’t hurt to ask.
And sometimes people genuinely do just need to be left alone for a while. But with the safety net of your support whenever they need it. Maybe check in on them from time to time and ask, again. Let them know you are thinking of them.
1. Validate sad feelings / reassure — so things like, “I know this is really hard for you. I’m sorry you’re feeling so sad right now. It’s good to cry though. Don’t worry, we’re not going anywhere.” (alternately, because people vary, maybe ask, “would you like privacy or company?” and then go with the one they want).
2. Let the sad person take the lead / vent. Similar to ‘privacy or company,’ it can also help to ask, “Do you want a hug, or do you want some space?” The theme is, don’t push your preferred method of cheering up onto someone else. In many cases, people want to talk.
3. After they’ve vented, ask open-ended questions like, “The last time you felt like this, what made you feel better?” Or, “What are some specific things we can do right now to try and get through this?” The person might have some ideas! They might not, in which case it’s okay to suggest some things. But they probably actually have some ideas, even if they might feel embarrassed to admit (maybe because what they want feels juvenile, or maybe because what they want is [in my case] to go to the hospital but they don’t know if it’s “bad enough” to warrant that.)
4. Incidentally, pretty much the minute someone says, “I want to go to the hospital” or get some kind of medical treatment, take them. Do not try and talk them out of it. Nobody suggests going to the hospital unless they’ve hit rock bottom. While I advise against calling 911 if you’re unsure, if the person says, “I need to go to the ER,” then you can be sure they need to go to the ER. Again, cannot speak for Yumi, but in my case, I specifically asked to go to the hospital and people talked me out of it, which was awful.
@BBCC: It really depends on the risk level of their suicidality. Are they actively suicidal, as in if you leave them alone you believe they’ll attempt? You can call emergency services in that case, or you could call a crisis hotline who may be able to help you with contacting such services and provide emotional assistance to you as well. Is the likelihood that they’ll attempt if left alone (right then) lower? Then you could try to work out a plan with them for what they’ll do when they’re alone; you can also support them in getting help when they’re ready.
Example:
A: “I’m worried about some of the things you’ve been saying. Are you feeling suicidal?” (Because: ask! ask if they’re suicidal if they haven’t said it/it’s unclear/you’re worried!)
B: “Yeah, I am. But, like, I don’t think I’m going to do anything tonight. I just want to be alone.”
A: “Okay, well, what do you think you might do once I leave/you go home/whatever?”
Maybe you discuss that they plan to read, then take a nap. Also identify what supports are currently in their life. Do they live with someone that would help them get help? Do they currently see a therapist? Could they call them? I’d make sure they had numbers for crisis lines (both phone and chat/text) as well as your number if that’s something you’re comfortable with.
If you’d like to strengthen your skills related to this, I’d recommend looking into a training called ASIST, which is a very good workshop in suicide first aid. https://www.livingworks.net/programs/asist/
@Indoor Cat: I relate so much to your last point that I went back to check if I mentioned hospitalization in a previous comment. I also (at the time of events previously described) asked to go to a psychiatric hospital and was told that taking that step essentially was too extreme.
Really great advice and info here. Speaking as someone who has worked on a crisis phone line, thank you all for helping. The suggestions made here can literally save lives.
@ Yumi – That sounds reasonable. I might also talk to them about lowering risks – like taking any pills, sharp objects, etc. with me or locking them up somewhere and letting someone else have the key, etc. if it were that bad.
@ Inahc – That’s actually very helpful. I am in Canada and I didn’t know this.
Speaking for myself, trying to convince me it’s not all that big of a deal can be helpful, or it can hurt more, pretty much just depending on *me* at that moment.
Like, “Wow, it’s pretty awful, but we can solve this/get through this, and I’ve got some ideas about how we can do that, if you want. Don’t worry, I won’t leave you to deal with this alone,” can be really helpful.
But, “I don’t know why you’re making such a big fuss about this stupid little thing,” just makes me feel worse and even more of a failure, even if it’s phrased more kindly, like “Don’t worry, this isn’t actually such a big deal after all,” or something. :/ It’s a hard, narrow path to walk, and it constantly shifts around.
What helps the most is understanding and empathy. Understand that, while from the outside, it might not seem like a big deal, whatever it is that’s bothering me so much (if it’s even one specific thing), from in here it’s overwhelming. It’s like having a cat sitting on your face. Cats: Pretty small, all things considered, not too much of an issue so long as they’re fed and their litterbox is cleaned on a regular basis. Cat on the lap: Pretty nice, actually. Cat snuggling in bed: Can be tremendously comforting. Cat sleeping on your face: OH GOD I CAN’T BREATHE. Someone standing to the side saying, “It’s just a cat, oh my god, anyways, I thought you wanted her in bed with you?!” is not helping, either in the understanding department nor in the THERE’S A CAT ON MY FACE AND I CAN’T BREATHE department.
Empathy ought to be self-explanatory, I would hope, especially for this crowd. 🙂 <3
Anyways, here, this short, sfw video on the difference between sympathy and empathy is actually really helpful. http://cheezburger.com/56915969/this-short-cartoon-will-show-you-the-power-of-empathy-versus-sympathy-and-make-you-a-better-person
Yeah, and putting too much pressure on someone to “cheer up” can end up making them feel bad that they feel bad.
Sometimes it’s better to validate how they feel and try to be comforting and/or supportive. Even when a person is grieve the loss of someone close to them, we often are in too much of a hurry to try to cheer them up, when what they need is support, comfort, or just sympathy. Sometimes people need that even when the thing they’re upset about ends up being silly. Sometimes you just feel that way and it needs to be let out.
pressuring someone to feel better can make them self-sabotage more out of spite? also sometimes it’s really important to ackowledge how shitty something feels (or even is) and that the universe is kinda fucked up and unfair.
it’s hard to balance acknowledging the pain vs trying to not ruminate. even with myself there’s a lot of guesswork involved in deciding whether it’s a day to curl up in bed or a day to drag myeslf outside.
My grandma really likes to say “stop crying, don’t cry” when I have literally come to her to have a shoulder to cry on. Like, I made a consicous decision to stop Not Thinking About It, to actually talk about it and cry all I want because it sucks and I hurt, and I know for a fact, from experience, that I’ll feel better afterwards.
Telling me to stop doing that, to stop crying, to go back to bottling everything up and smiling and ‘not saying it like that’ and ‘not exaggerating things’… is not fucking helpful.
(Even when I actually exaggerate, it still helps – it helps ping my its-not-so-bad-o-meter which puts a hard limit on how shitty the situation is. Better than not even going there and feeling like im drowning in a bottomless bog of repressed horrible)
As someone who was “discouraged” from expressing negative emotions as a child – including the depression that inevitably resulted from that – I have a particular antipathy to attempts to “cheer [me] up”. I feel I have a right to be unhappy, if that is how I am feeling, and resent what I perceive as a denial of that right.
In my opinion, Dina’s silence is – whether she knows this or not – is a good response.
There is no right thing to say here, but Dina did really good. Gently letting Amber know she is loved and people aren’t going to let her push them away is probably the best thing to do here, even if Amber’s trying to fight it. Dina arguing with her further probably wouldn’t get anywhere.
I sometimes feel I’m doing that with my sophomore-in-college age daughter, and it’s terrifying and helplessness-inducing. I don’t know what to do – I just try to engage as best I can.
This is the different-generational experience, and it really sucks, frankly. But new adults often aren’t really good at adulting, so we experienced adults, to whatever degree we can, provide the support and guidance that we hope can steer these new adults into healthy adult life. Of course we’re limited in our own degree of healthiness/dysfunction, but those of us who feel genuinely responsible will do our best.
what I think I needed (and didn’t get back then) was to be loved and have some basic boundaries respected even if I screwed up.
with my husband, I don’t want him to try and solve my problems for me, I just want lots and lots of hugs to help me survive the tidal-waves of Feelings. and once they’re over I can do the problem-solving myself.
I almost wonder if maybe there’s more than one person Amber feels she should give up on. I mean, she definitely thinks she needs to give up on herself, but maybe she thinks Amazi-Girl needs to stop trying to help people too.
Note: in spite of your knee jerk, there should be a point where you give up on people like this, in this state. Otherwise you’ll drive yourself crazy with them.
And romantically, avoid Ambers like the fucking plague.
That’s not to imply any bitterness or ire towards her character or that kind of personality, only that there is a limit to what you can do for people, and the well meaning tend to forget they have that limit, and take Amber’s warnings as a kind of dare.
I actually am not sure what you’re saying here. People with mental issues can reach Amber’s state of self loathing through a variety of ways. Fuck… Amber in this strip sounds a lot like me when I start getting into a bad state of depression. I know that I’m in a state of suicide idealization. And, unlike Amber, I have counseling and a wide social network to fallback on. Are you saying that people who reach a certain point of illness are not worth trying to help? Because that’s what it sounds like.
I was one of those people. Correction-am: once a depressive, always a depressive. But I was also one of the ones who try to help. What I do know is that everyone should know to help up to a point and no further. The caring impulse that enables some to try to help more often than not takes people too far.
It was a while before I stopped reading “you’re going to give up on me” as a challenge to my character.
DRABC- the first entry in any good aid or how to help is Minimise or remove corollary danger. That includes danger to yourself. if you dive down someone’s rabbithole after them, and fuck yourself up, you’ve not helped and have in fact increased the casualties for someone else to deal with.
Know your limits, and have backup. It’s not a statement about the person in need’s worthiness of help, but your ability to provide it. Pass the baton.
While yes, there can be times where the emotional cost of continuing to be there for someone is too high and you need to accept you can’t keep doing it any more for your own sake, and it’s definitely the case that Amber would likely be better off not trying to start a new romantic relationship until her head’s in a better place, but that’s still a really damn harsh way to go about saying that. :/
It IS important to recognize that supporting someone who’s struggling takes a toll, but there’s many paths between “desperately trying to ‘fix’ them while you end up falling to pieces” and “walking away entirely”. If you realize your best efforts may not make them noticeably less miserable, the disappointment is less. If you can get some support for yourself and/or help supporting them, spreading the load out over more people makes it easier to bear, and lessens the chances of anyone falling.
Like, yes, you absolutely can and should walk away if you need to. You falling apart trying to help them will likely be bad for them as well as you. But if you can simply dial back how much burden you’re shouldering to a more manageable level, you should try that first.
I have to disagree with this, with the note that should Amber seek out hospitalization, I believe that would be a good thing. But involuntary hospitalization? No, I don’t think this is that territory.
(I had more typed out before, but the website is being incredibly vexing tonight.)
She has now committed assault with a deadly weapon. She should be in jail, not sued. I think those should be criminal charges, not a civil case. I have seen people jailed for less. So if- IF- they went with an insanity plea due to the fact that she is dissociating and assaulting people in costume- which the police already wanted to discuss with her- she would be involuntarily hospitalized at this point. As it is, she’s “just” a depressed criminal.
No, they went with a self defense route, since Ryan was the clear aggressor. He brought the knife AND threatened Dorothy as well as Joyce, so it is reasonable for a judge to assume Amber acted out of self preservation.
Even in Blaine’s case, she’s got a pretty good case – he’d attacked her RA earlier that day and had just grabbed (assaulted) Danny when she attacked him.
Now, she blames herself for losing control in both cases, with some justification.
Defending herself against Ryan was in no way a crime though, assuming the cameras don’t show her sitting on top of him carving little bits off or something. Which they don’t, because the cops are clearly treating it as self-defense.
Oh, bull. “Self-defense” is a crime in the ultra-conservative midwest. Two recent cases from Illinois: a martial artist attacked by three muggers went to jail because “his body is a weapon and he knows how to use it”. The three muggers got off, despite one of them having the martial artist’s wallet in his pocket. An apartment complex in a small town: guy chases his wife down the stairs with a gun. She shelters in another apartment. Husband screams through the door that he’s gonna kill the bongo and the old man whose apartment she’s sheltering in. The “old man’s” son emerges from the apartment and attempts to subdue the husband. Picks up the gun. Cops arrive. The son is the one holding the weapon, despite it being registered to the husband and not fired. Son goes to jail for six months. For holding the weapon.
There would be no proof as to who “brought the weapon”, and the cops are only going to care about which one has blood on their face and which one was holding it. Amber’s goose is cooked. Stabbing anyone is a crime, regardless of motive. At least, that’s how it’s treated.
“If an aggressor assaults the victim, but ends the assault, the threat is considered over. Use of violence after the immediate and present threat has ended is considered retalitory and not self-defense.” “Proportional response: a victim may end the threat using only the amount of force required.” And since a dorm belongs to the university and not to her as an individual, Amber can’t claim a “stand your ground” situation, but a “duty to retreat” ie, the requirement to attempt every chance to escape the situation (by going in and locking the door, as when she shoved Dorothy through) and end the situation before it became violent. Also “stand your ground” doesn’t take effect until the aggressor attempts to actually enter your home, not lurking around in the shadows outside.
Summary: 1) Present clear and danger threat (yes).
2) Lack of harm or provocation on Amber’s end (no- escalated the situation and proved intent to become physically involved by locking Dorothy in)
3) Lack of reasonable chance to escape the situation (no-large, well-lit dorm behind her where one of the individuals did take shelter)
TLDR: So according to law? Ryan (who is one of the worst characters in the strip)= creepy stalker. Amber=criminal.
Locked Dorothy in by wedging something in the door from the outside- didn’t and couldn’t lock Ryan out. Could have run into the dorm, chased by Ryan with a knife. This is basically the equivalent of “Run! I’ll hold him off!”
They’d be perfectly safe if they only got into the dorm. Where he’d stated he was planning to go in and find his other target. Makes sense.
His prints on the knife. Camera footage of the encounter, showing him pulling out the knife and going for Amber with it.
We don’t see the details of the encounter, but disarming him doesn’t end it, if he’s still struggling. He could get the knife back, just like she got it from him.
As thejeff said and as I have brought up at length on several different strips now, Amber was the one with no safe opportunity to escape, not Ryan. Even if the inside of the dorm was significantly safer (remember that his plan was to follow them inside the dorm and then attack Joyce), turning her back on Ryan to go through the door was not something she could do quickly enough to avoid giving him a chance to grab her.
We also know that there was security footage of the whole incident. If Amber had kept attacking him after he’d stopped putting up a fight, she’d be in jail, or at least under house arrest.
Since there wouldn’t be any audio to pick up Ryan’s threats, Amber’s actions HAD to have been clearly self-defense.
So people know what happend between her and Ryan, right? Hasn’t still anybody had the idea to suggest she see a therapist? Then again, she seems in a state where she might not accept help. Also damn her attitude is starting to get on my nerves.
Folks, I have just found out about Dustin Hoffman’s sexual assault/harrassment accusations. I’m devastated and so angry. I thought he seemed like a good person because of how well he treated Kim Peek, a neurodivergent person who was the basis for Hoffman’s role in Rain Man. I was almost going to do a project based on that movie.
Moral of the story is that people can still commit sexual assault or harrassment even though they may seem to be a ‘champion’ (of sorts) of vulnerable minority groups. I’ve seen this with Joss Whedon and Harvey Weinstein, but this is first time I actually took it to heart. The other men who’ve been accused didn’t have as much impact on me.
I’m really sorry you are having to learn this lesson. I’ve recently had to understand the same thing about my Dad. It’s pretty hard. Internet hugs if wanted.
Well, I was about to defend him after reading that Meryl’s rep said that representation wasn’t portrayed correctly, and that Meryl accepted Hoffman’s apology… then I read a Salon article that listed a bunch of other things he also did and said. Well. I know that Salon can be a bit one-sided, but if even half of those things are true, then I just lost a lot of respect for him.
Oh, and it just hit me that Dina probably bought ALL those horrible Direct To VHS “Land Before Time” movies. They’re probably her “Dexter and Monkey Master”.
(I have to admit, Dustin Hoffmann bothers me more than most. Because I expected him to not be that kind of guy.
Whereas Woody Allen… 🙄 already failed for me as a good person when I saw his “everything you always wanted to know about sex” because of his obvious hate and fear of women.
All the reader can see of.Amber is bits of her hair, arm and shirt. A different facet of emotion then when she was hiding than behind the tree, I think.
But a neat way to show her self-selected isolation. After the tiny eyes in the final panel yesterday, not seeing her face today makes me worry more.
And, yes, Dina is the best, and whatever percentage of Joyce she’s providing here is just right.
Mandatory psych exams would require some degree of probable cause and detention, which would in turn require some manner of psych exam or at least obvious mental problems. Obvious to the police, I mean.
Right now the storyline is “face the strange”, “faz is great” is two storylines later, and when the strip first posted it was listed as the first strip of “faz is great”
Speaking for myself, trying to convince me it’s not all that big of a deal can be helpful, or it can hurt more, pretty much just depending on *me* at that moment.
Like, “Wow, it’s pretty awful, but we can solve this/get through this, and I’ve got some ideas about how we can do that, if you want. Don’t worry, I won’t leave you to deal with this alone,” can be really helpful.
But, “I don’t know why you’re making such a big fuss about this stupid little thing,” just makes me feel worse and even more of a failure, even if it’s phrased more kindly, like “Don’t worry, this isn’t actually such a big deal after all,” or something. :/ It’s a hard, narrow path to walk, and it constantly shifts around.
What helps the most is understanding and empathy. Understand that, while from the outside, it might not seem like a big deal, whatever it is that’s bothering me so much (if it’s even one specific thing), from in here it’s overwhelming. It’s like having a cat sitting on your face. Cats: Pretty small, all things considered, not too much of an issue so long as they’re fed and their litterbox is cleaned on a regular basis. Cat on the lap: Pretty nice, actually. Cat snuggling in bed: Can be tremendously comforting. Cat sleeping on your face: OH GOD I CAN’T BREATHE. Someone standing to the side saying, “It’s just a cat, oh my god, anyways, I thought you wanted her in bed with you?!” is not helping, either in the understanding department nor in the THERE’S A CAT ON MY FACE AND I CAN’T BREATHE department.
Empathy ought to be self-explanatory, I would hope, especially for this crowd. 🙂 <3
Anyways, here, this short, sfw video on the difference between sympathy and empathy is actually really helpful.
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Dina is so good
Wait, did we just skip an entire storyline?
I’m guessing that is a mistake. If it isn’t, then that is very weird…
We didn’t so much skip the entire storyline where Faz and Dina get married as we erased it from our collective memory, it was so horrifying. So it’s just like we skipped it.
Actually, we were all mind-wiped and that storyline was retroactively declared non-canon.
FOOLS! It was obviously the Great Faz who wielded his great and terrible powers of life and death to influence the very strip itself!
STAND NAME: 「KING CRIMSON」
STAND MASTER: 「THE FAZ」
Cause this is apparently the first strip in faz is great, and I think willis said something about there still being 11ish strips in face the strange, not to mention the absence of strips in this is the way that we love
Ooooh, okay. But it looks like it’s fixed now, so did it ever really happen?
What do you mean?
Okay, now it says This is the Way that We Love but isn’t it still Face the Strange? What?
WILLIS, HELP.
I love Dina, my god.
Also, I refreshed the strip so many times.
Same, I was afraid we’d have no strip today. I was gonna go into withdrawals.
The hat has faith in you, Amber.
I want a friend like Dina.
Storyline name is the most awful. I have many charts to explain why.
Storyline name has been corrected. In most Emily Litella voice: “NIvver mind.”
What was it before?
“Faz Is Great”.
We went from 01 to 03? Also. Faz. Oh dear.
DINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We will never give up on Amber, she may not be a dinosaur, but she still deserves marginal attention and care.
Yo, I wish one of the real windblade toys looked as good as background out of focus Windblade in this strip.
Dina used a contraction, dang.
What’s interesting to me is the one she used seems less natural in that sentence than alternatives. If that’s intentional, since contractions aren’t natural to her, that’s pretty cool.
Apparently, some people actually use contractions where forms of “have” or “has” are contracted, followed by “not”, such as “I’ve not”, and consider it to sound just fine, but I still prefer the sound of “I haven’t”. Meh, personal preference, I guess.
*twitch*
Willis… I saw the Twitter feed tonight. You feeling ok?
Amber: My foot is going to hurt.
*shoots herself in the foot*
Amber: See, just like I predicted.
Congrats, you have just defined self-harm
…
I wish this was not a thing currently happening to Amber
Ok we appear to have jumped to an entirely different storyline somehow.
And looks like it’s fixed. Nevermind then.
The one time I had to get up before 6 and hoped for a comic as a consolation price, it is late.
I really like Frank amber
Unsure if last panel is depressing or optimistic or somehow both.
She hasn’t given up on herself yet, I think it’s a good thing
stubbornness is useful for that.
BOTH.
Yes.
Amber has always been kind towards Dina, accepting her quirks and helping her to cope with social situations while acknowledging that this stuff can be really hard to do. And she saved Becky (as AG).
Dina knows that Amber is unhappy and caught up in a heck of a lot of self-loathing but she also knows that Amber is kind and brave and truly accepting of others. She has also seen enough of Blaine to understand that he would have been deeply damaging as a parent.
Dina is brave and loyal and caring and I don’t think Amber is going to be able to push her away easily. (Not 100% sure how she would react if Amber lashes out at her like she did Danny but suspect she would talk it over with Becky/Sarah and they would recognise it as a sign Amber needs help rather than condemnation…)
Self-sabotaging Amber is better than “Doing her best Blaine Impression at Danny” Amber, but still awfully depressing.
(Not physically abusive, but emotionally. Amber said some pretty despicable shit to him near the end, which I am a little concerned she barely seems to have acknowledged, focusing entirely on her physically violent side)
I think the comic needs more Sierra. I was thinking about the various roommate pairings, and I couldn’t remember whose Dorothy’s was, and I just want to see them interact more.
Right? She’s kind of great.
She is 100% Joyce love minus all the prejudice.
Right now I empathise so much with Dina’s speechlessness in the last 2 panels, because I’ve been in so many situations where I’m trying to cheer someone up while they keep on insisting they are a monster and a failure and I know they aren’t, but I have no idea of what to say to them to make them feel better about themselves
I kind of cringe at the idea of “trying to cheer someone up” when they’re like that, even though I know it’s a normal response. Sometimes it might be helpful, depending on your relationship and what the person needs from you at that moment, but in general I don’t see it as being so.
Also, you can’t really “make” someone feel better about themselves. You can try to help them, but…there’s just so much emphasis on trying to fix people in so many interactions with those who are struggling, I feel, when that’s often not as beneficial as we want it to be.
I’m sorry; I feel that saying I “cringe” comes across harsh. It just goes against what I’ve been taught.
Oh, sorry, upon hindsight the wording came across like I wanted to force them to feel better. I meant that I hate to see my friends beat themselves up over non existential faults or overexaggerated shortcomings and I want to help them.
Also, why do you think that cheering people up is a bad idea?(just curious).
Because, well, look how you phrased it: /you/ hate seeing them beat themselves up; /you/ want to help them. Often this desire to cheer people up, to try to help fix them, comes from a place of our own desire, our own discomfort. And so we say things that communicate “please don’t be sad” instead of “I will be here with you while you are sad.”
Sometimes cheering someone up can make sense– for smaller, more tangible things, in my opinion. Sometimes, though, it’s like giving someone a bandaid when they’re bleeding internally.
To give a personal and kind of extreme example of well intentioned cheering up:
A few years ago, I was home from college on winter break and I was incredibly depressed; in fact, I was suicidal. I couldn’t stop crying, I was scared, I struggled to ask for help.
My parents hated seeing me in so much pain; they wanted to cheer me up. So they suggested we all go to an arcade.
Now, I love arcades. Love them. But I wanted to die, not go to a fucking arcade. But here were these well-meaning people that I loved, trying to help me by stopping me from being sad. So we went to the arcade, and from what I can remember, we had a pretty good time. I enjoyed myself while we were there.
And two months later I nearly killed myself.
Holy crap, I’m so sorry you had to go through that! And, um, what would then be a better way of trying to help people in really bad situations without eventually leading to more harm?
I’m coming out of the woodwork as a ghost for the first time after reading this comic for years cause I gotta add something to this thread.
Over the years of being a person who gets sad and having friends who get sad in different ways, usually there are a few different things that any given person needs or wants from other people.
1. A distraction/to be “cheered up”
This is pretty normal. Normal people with normal sadness levels and relatively intact coping mechanisms just need a little (or perhaps big!) boost from somebody in their support network to help them cope with and move past how they are feeling. If you or somebody else is looking for this, it might actually not help at all for them to dwell on their feelings for any longer than necessary. You can tell people how great you think they are, and try to be as genuine and specific about it as possible. Don’t just say “aw, no, you’re great!”. Break out the big guns. “Truthfully, x y and z are things I have always admired about you, and nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise.”
2. Practical advice.
Sometimes, people in a slump might need an extra push. They are overwhelmed by circumstances and feel helpless. Sometimes a person might need someone on the outside of their head speaking rational sense to help break them out of cycles of negative intrusive thoughts, or genuine advice on how they can help themselves cope better. Like…usually a therapist is the most qualified to give that kind of advice, but if your friend seems willing to listen to any suggestions you might have, go for it.
For example, a friend of mine tells me how he’s been wracking his brain for hours trying to think about things to do for Inktober drawings, how he was really looking forward to trying to stick it out for the whole month. But he imposes all these rules on what things he’s allowed to draw and how he should draw them, no ideas are good ones, he’s a failure and oh his abusive mother also added to the joy by making him feel like any time he spends on Inktober drawings is an utter waste. I told him that it’s admirable that he wanted to do it for the whole month, his mother doesn’t know how much these drawings meant to him, but he is putting far too much pressure on himself and is worrying over things that ultimately do not matter. But I know the anxieties don’t just go away, so maybe he should try and let go of his need to do a drawing every single day (if that’s easier to let go of then the restrictions on each drawing), and allow himself some time to get out of that negative head space and tackle the drawing again at a later time. It’s okay to miss a few days of inktober, and nobody says you can’t keep doing ink drawings in November too. Be kind to yourself. You tried!
3. A listening ear/emotional validation
This can be kind of difficult. Sometimes people just need to be sad. In fact, the only way to move on from deep hurts is to be able to acknowledge the depth and truth of those hurts, and then take steps to move on from them. You can’t get around it, make it go away, or fix it for them. Or hell, maybe you COULD, but sometimes if YOU are the one to fix this thing for them, you rob them of the closure of having moved past something on their own power. If they are struggling with feelings of helplessness, that can kind of just….delay the inevitable.
So those times, you just try to engage with how they feel. If they want to talk about it, listen intently. If they feel open to answering questions about it, ask some to show you are engaged, and also to help you understand how they are feeling better. Tell them “yeah, wow, that SUCKS.” or “I’m really sorry that happened, it’s totally understandable for you to feel that way.” If they don’t want to talk about it, don’t push, but just let them know that you are there for them.
IMPORTANT
It is absolutely imperative you know WHICH the other person wants, because if they want one and get another, it’s disaster. If someone wants advice or reassurance and all they get is “wow, that sucks!”, that’s fucking frustrating and unhelpful. If someone is looking for validation and all they get are you ignoring their feelings to force them to feel better, or preaching at them about how they SHOULD be acting or feeling, that’s also shitty. If somebody is just looking to get cheered up and distracted from their pain, a “that sucks!” or dwelling on things through unwanted advice is ALSO unhelpful.
So generally. The thing to do here is ASK. Ask what the person things they want or need before you try anything at all. Unless you know them and their patterns well enough to simply instinctively know what they usually need. But even then, it can’t hurt to ask.
And sometimes people genuinely do just need to be left alone for a while. But with the safety net of your support whenever they need it. Maybe check in on them from time to time and ask, again. Let them know you are thinking of them.
Can’t speak for Yumi, but three things help me.
1. Validate sad feelings / reassure — so things like, “I know this is really hard for you. I’m sorry you’re feeling so sad right now. It’s good to cry though. Don’t worry, we’re not going anywhere.” (alternately, because people vary, maybe ask, “would you like privacy or company?” and then go with the one they want).
2. Let the sad person take the lead / vent. Similar to ‘privacy or company,’ it can also help to ask, “Do you want a hug, or do you want some space?” The theme is, don’t push your preferred method of cheering up onto someone else. In many cases, people want to talk.
3. After they’ve vented, ask open-ended questions like, “The last time you felt like this, what made you feel better?” Or, “What are some specific things we can do right now to try and get through this?” The person might have some ideas! They might not, in which case it’s okay to suggest some things. But they probably actually have some ideas, even if they might feel embarrassed to admit (maybe because what they want feels juvenile, or maybe because what they want is [in my case] to go to the hospital but they don’t know if it’s “bad enough” to warrant that.)
4. Incidentally, pretty much the minute someone says, “I want to go to the hospital” or get some kind of medical treatment, take them. Do not try and talk them out of it. Nobody suggests going to the hospital unless they’ve hit rock bottom. While I advise against calling 911 if you’re unsure, if the person says, “I need to go to the ER,” then you can be sure they need to go to the ER. Again, cannot speak for Yumi, but in my case, I specifically asked to go to the hospital and people talked me out of it, which was awful.
I can see how most of this would be helpful, but I’d be worried about leaving someone suicidal alone. What’s best practice in that scenario?
@BBCC: It really depends on the risk level of their suicidality. Are they actively suicidal, as in if you leave them alone you believe they’ll attempt? You can call emergency services in that case, or you could call a crisis hotline who may be able to help you with contacting such services and provide emotional assistance to you as well. Is the likelihood that they’ll attempt if left alone (right then) lower? Then you could try to work out a plan with them for what they’ll do when they’re alone; you can also support them in getting help when they’re ready.
Example:
A: “I’m worried about some of the things you’ve been saying. Are you feeling suicidal?” (Because: ask! ask if they’re suicidal if they haven’t said it/it’s unclear/you’re worried!)
B: “Yeah, I am. But, like, I don’t think I’m going to do anything tonight. I just want to be alone.”
A: “Okay, well, what do you think you might do once I leave/you go home/whatever?”
Maybe you discuss that they plan to read, then take a nap. Also identify what supports are currently in their life. Do they live with someone that would help them get help? Do they currently see a therapist? Could they call them? I’d make sure they had numbers for crisis lines (both phone and chat/text) as well as your number if that’s something you’re comfortable with.
If you’d like to strengthen your skills related to this, I’d recommend looking into a training called ASIST, which is a very good workshop in suicide first aid. https://www.livingworks.net/programs/asist/
@Indoor Cat: I relate so much to your last point that I went back to check if I mentioned hospitalization in a previous comment. I also (at the time of events previously described) asked to go to a psychiatric hospital and was told that taking that step essentially was too extreme.
also in canada there’s 811, which gives non-emergency medical advice (eg. should I see a doctor? should I be calling 911?)
Really great advice and info here. Speaking as someone who has worked on a crisis phone line, thank you all for helping. The suggestions made here can literally save lives.
@ Yumi – That sounds reasonable. I might also talk to them about lowering risks – like taking any pills, sharp objects, etc. with me or locking them up somewhere and letting someone else have the key, etc. if it were that bad.
@ Inahc – That’s actually very helpful. I am in Canada and I didn’t know this.
Speaking for myself, trying to convince me it’s not all that big of a deal can be helpful, or it can hurt more, pretty much just depending on *me* at that moment.
Like, “Wow, it’s pretty awful, but we can solve this/get through this, and I’ve got some ideas about how we can do that, if you want. Don’t worry, I won’t leave you to deal with this alone,” can be really helpful.
But, “I don’t know why you’re making such a big fuss about this stupid little thing,” just makes me feel worse and even more of a failure, even if it’s phrased more kindly, like “Don’t worry, this isn’t actually such a big deal after all,” or something. :/ It’s a hard, narrow path to walk, and it constantly shifts around.
What helps the most is understanding and empathy. Understand that, while from the outside, it might not seem like a big deal, whatever it is that’s bothering me so much (if it’s even one specific thing), from in here it’s overwhelming. It’s like having a cat sitting on your face. Cats: Pretty small, all things considered, not too much of an issue so long as they’re fed and their litterbox is cleaned on a regular basis. Cat on the lap: Pretty nice, actually. Cat snuggling in bed: Can be tremendously comforting. Cat sleeping on your face: OH GOD I CAN’T BREATHE. Someone standing to the side saying, “It’s just a cat, oh my god, anyways, I thought you wanted her in bed with you?!” is not helping, either in the understanding department nor in the THERE’S A CAT ON MY FACE AND I CAN’T BREATHE department.
Empathy ought to be self-explanatory, I would hope, especially for this crowd. 🙂 <3
Anyways, here, this short, sfw video on the difference between sympathy and empathy is actually really helpful.
http://cheezburger.com/56915969/this-short-cartoon-will-show-you-the-power-of-empathy-versus-sympathy-and-make-you-a-better-person
Yeah, and putting too much pressure on someone to “cheer up” can end up making them feel bad that they feel bad.
Sometimes it’s better to validate how they feel and try to be comforting and/or supportive. Even when a person is grieve the loss of someone close to them, we often are in too much of a hurry to try to cheer them up, when what they need is support, comfort, or just sympathy. Sometimes people need that even when the thing they’re upset about ends up being silly. Sometimes you just feel that way and it needs to be let out.
pressuring someone to feel better can make them self-sabotage more out of spite? also sometimes it’s really important to ackowledge how shitty something feels (or even is) and that the universe is kinda fucked up and unfair.
it’s hard to balance acknowledging the pain vs trying to not ruminate. even with myself there’s a lot of guesswork involved in deciding whether it’s a day to curl up in bed or a day to drag myeslf outside.
My grandma really likes to say “stop crying, don’t cry” when I have literally come to her to have a shoulder to cry on. Like, I made a consicous decision to stop Not Thinking About It, to actually talk about it and cry all I want because it sucks and I hurt, and I know for a fact, from experience, that I’ll feel better afterwards.
Telling me to stop doing that, to stop crying, to go back to bottling everything up and smiling and ‘not saying it like that’ and ‘not exaggerating things’… is not fucking helpful.
(Even when I actually exaggerate, it still helps – it helps ping my its-not-so-bad-o-meter which puts a hard limit on how shitty the situation is. Better than not even going there and feeling like im drowning in a bottomless bog of repressed horrible)
As someone who was “discouraged” from expressing negative emotions as a child – including the depression that inevitably resulted from that – I have a particular antipathy to attempts to “cheer [me] up”. I feel I have a right to be unhappy, if that is how I am feeling, and resent what I perceive as a denial of that right.
So, thank you for saying this.
This is so far down that it’s unclear, but it’s a response to Yumi’s comment from 12:34 a.m.
In my opinion, Dina’s silence is – whether she knows this or not – is a good response.
There is no right thing to say here, but Dina did really good. Gently letting Amber know she is loved and people aren’t going to let her push them away is probably the best thing to do here, even if Amber’s trying to fight it. Dina arguing with her further probably wouldn’t get anywhere.
I sometimes feel I’m doing that with my sophomore-in-college age daughter, and it’s terrifying and helplessness-inducing. I don’t know what to do – I just try to engage as best I can.
This is the different-generational experience, and it really sucks, frankly. But new adults often aren’t really good at adulting, so we experienced adults, to whatever degree we can, provide the support and guidance that we hope can steer these new adults into healthy adult life. Of course we’re limited in our own degree of healthiness/dysfunction, but those of us who feel genuinely responsible will do our best.
Count on it.
what I think I needed (and didn’t get back then) was to be loved and have some basic boundaries respected even if I screwed up.
with my husband, I don’t want him to try and solve my problems for me, I just want lots and lots of hugs to help me survive the tidal-waves of Feelings. and once they’re over I can do the problem-solving myself.
In my own experience with this kind of thing.. it’s gotten to the point where my friends just know to say “You’re a good person now shut up.”
I just have to accept that both those statements have been earned.
Sounds like Amber hasn’t completely given up on herself yet either. At least that’s how I’m interpreting the last panel.
I feel like it’s like “Show me how you did it so I can teach everyone else.”
I almost wonder if maybe there’s more than one person Amber feels she should give up on. I mean, she definitely thinks she needs to give up on herself, but maybe she thinks Amazi-Girl needs to stop trying to help people too.
“help”
Note: in spite of your knee jerk, there should be a point where you give up on people like this, in this state. Otherwise you’ll drive yourself crazy with them.
And romantically, avoid Ambers like the fucking plague.
The only remedy is time. And maybe therapy.
That’s not to imply any bitterness or ire towards her character or that kind of personality, only that there is a limit to what you can do for people, and the well meaning tend to forget they have that limit, and take Amber’s warnings as a kind of dare.
I actually am not sure what you’re saying here. People with mental issues can reach Amber’s state of self loathing through a variety of ways. Fuck… Amber in this strip sounds a lot like me when I start getting into a bad state of depression. I know that I’m in a state of suicide idealization. And, unlike Amber, I have counseling and a wide social network to fallback on. Are you saying that people who reach a certain point of illness are not worth trying to help? Because that’s what it sounds like.
I was one of those people. Correction-am: once a depressive, always a depressive. But I was also one of the ones who try to help. What I do know is that everyone should know to help up to a point and no further. The caring impulse that enables some to try to help more often than not takes people too far.
It was a while before I stopped reading “you’re going to give up on me” as a challenge to my character.
DRABC- the first entry in any good aid or how to help is Minimise or remove corollary danger. That includes danger to yourself. if you dive down someone’s rabbithole after them, and fuck yourself up, you’ve not helped and have in fact increased the casualties for someone else to deal with.
Know your limits, and have backup. It’s not a statement about the person in need’s worthiness of help, but your ability to provide it. Pass the baton.
While yes, there can be times where the emotional cost of continuing to be there for someone is too high and you need to accept you can’t keep doing it any more for your own sake, and it’s definitely the case that Amber would likely be better off not trying to start a new romantic relationship until her head’s in a better place, but that’s still a really damn harsh way to go about saying that. :/
It IS important to recognize that supporting someone who’s struggling takes a toll, but there’s many paths between “desperately trying to ‘fix’ them while you end up falling to pieces” and “walking away entirely”. If you realize your best efforts may not make them noticeably less miserable, the disappointment is less. If you can get some support for yourself and/or help supporting them, spreading the load out over more people makes it easier to bear, and lessens the chances of anyone falling.
Like, yes, you absolutely can and should walk away if you need to. You falling apart trying to help them will likely be bad for them as well as you. But if you can simply dial back how much burden you’re shouldering to a more manageable level, you should try that first.
yup. compassion fatigue is a thing, and setting healthy limits early on can mean you have *more* spoons to offer in the long term.
Yeah. Less “giving up on the person” and more “giving up on your own ability to help at this time.”
Hi, Windblade!
It took me a bit to realizer Amber hadn’t buried her face in a pillow, though that would make sense. At least Dina’s being a wonderful friend ‹3
“Damnit, all of you stop disagreeing with the part of my brain that says I’m irredeemably awful.”
delete everything, go home. Eat Arby’s.
Another exciting edition of “Amber Needs To Be Hospitalized And Anyone Not Trying To Make This Happen Is AWFUL”.
Seriously, guys, this isn’t a cute “tee hee, I’m so depressed”. Ruth was hospitalized for less than this.
Ruth was hospitalized at about the same point, actually. Lying in bed, trying to get people to leave her alone, basically catatonic, etc.
More catatonic, less responsive, saying being dead sounds nice.
A good few steps past this I’d say. Not that Amber couldn’t benefit from some professional help of course.
I have to disagree with this, with the note that should Amber seek out hospitalization, I believe that would be a good thing. But involuntary hospitalization? No, I don’t think this is that territory.
(I had more typed out before, but the website is being incredibly vexing tonight.)
She has now committed assault with a deadly weapon. She should be in jail, not sued. I think those should be criminal charges, not a civil case. I have seen people jailed for less. So if- IF- they went with an insanity plea due to the fact that she is dissociating and assaulting people in costume- which the police already wanted to discuss with her- she would be involuntarily hospitalized at this point. As it is, she’s “just” a depressed criminal.
No, they went with a self defense route, since Ryan was the clear aggressor. He brought the knife AND threatened Dorothy as well as Joyce, so it is reasonable for a judge to assume Amber acted out of self preservation.
Stabbing Ryan was very much not a crime. Beating up Blaine probably was, but nobody knows about that.
Even in Blaine’s case, she’s got a pretty good case – he’d attacked her RA earlier that day and had just grabbed (assaulted) Danny when she attacked him.
Now, she blames herself for losing control in both cases, with some justification.
Defending herself against Ryan was in no way a crime though, assuming the cameras don’t show her sitting on top of him carving little bits off or something. Which they don’t, because the cops are clearly treating it as self-defense.
Minor correction: Blaine attacked Ruth the day before he tricked Danny.
Oh, bull. “Self-defense” is a crime in the ultra-conservative midwest. Two recent cases from Illinois: a martial artist attacked by three muggers went to jail because “his body is a weapon and he knows how to use it”. The three muggers got off, despite one of them having the martial artist’s wallet in his pocket. An apartment complex in a small town: guy chases his wife down the stairs with a gun. She shelters in another apartment. Husband screams through the door that he’s gonna kill the bongo and the old man whose apartment she’s sheltering in. The “old man’s” son emerges from the apartment and attempts to subdue the husband. Picks up the gun. Cops arrive. The son is the one holding the weapon, despite it being registered to the husband and not fired. Son goes to jail for six months. For holding the weapon.
There would be no proof as to who “brought the weapon”, and the cops are only going to care about which one has blood on their face and which one was holding it. Amber’s goose is cooked. Stabbing anyone is a crime, regardless of motive. At least, that’s how it’s treated.
“If an aggressor assaults the victim, but ends the assault, the threat is considered over. Use of violence after the immediate and present threat has ended is considered retalitory and not self-defense.” “Proportional response: a victim may end the threat using only the amount of force required.” And since a dorm belongs to the university and not to her as an individual, Amber can’t claim a “stand your ground” situation, but a “duty to retreat” ie, the requirement to attempt every chance to escape the situation (by going in and locking the door, as when she shoved Dorothy through) and end the situation before it became violent. Also “stand your ground” doesn’t take effect until the aggressor attempts to actually enter your home, not lurking around in the shadows outside.
Summary: 1) Present clear and danger threat (yes).
2) Lack of harm or provocation on Amber’s end (no- escalated the situation and proved intent to become physically involved by locking Dorothy in)
3) Lack of reasonable chance to escape the situation (no-large, well-lit dorm behind her where one of the individuals did take shelter)
TLDR: So according to law? Ryan (who is one of the worst characters in the strip)= creepy stalker. Amber=criminal.
Locked Dorothy in by wedging something in the door from the outside- didn’t and couldn’t lock Ryan out. Could have run into the dorm, chased by Ryan with a knife. This is basically the equivalent of “Run! I’ll hold him off!”
They’d be perfectly safe if they only got into the dorm. Where he’d stated he was planning to go in and find his other target. Makes sense.
His prints on the knife. Camera footage of the encounter, showing him pulling out the knife and going for Amber with it.
We don’t see the details of the encounter, but disarming him doesn’t end it, if he’s still struggling. He could get the knife back, just like she got it from him.
As thejeff said and as I have brought up at length on several different strips now, Amber was the one with no safe opportunity to escape, not Ryan. Even if the inside of the dorm was significantly safer (remember that his plan was to follow them inside the dorm and then attack Joyce), turning her back on Ryan to go through the door was not something she could do quickly enough to avoid giving him a chance to grab her.
We also know that there was security footage of the whole incident. If Amber had kept attacking him after he’d stopped putting up a fight, she’d be in jail, or at least under house arrest.
Since there wouldn’t be any audio to pick up Ryan’s threats, Amber’s actions HAD to have been clearly self-defense.
Just because in some situations law fucks up and pins blame on people who are not at fault at all, doesn’t mean we should follow its example…
So people know what happend between her and Ryan, right? Hasn’t still anybody had the idea to suggest she see a therapist? Then again, she seems in a state where she might not accept help. Also damn her attitude is starting to get on my nerves.
Folks, I have just found out about Dustin Hoffman’s sexual assault/harrassment accusations. I’m devastated and so angry. I thought he seemed like a good person because of how well he treated Kim Peek, a neurodivergent person who was the basis for Hoffman’s role in Rain Man. I was almost going to do a project based on that movie.
Moral of the story is that people can still commit sexual assault or harrassment even though they may seem to be a ‘champion’ (of sorts) of vulnerable minority groups. I’ve seen this with Joss Whedon and Harvey Weinstein, but this is first time I actually took it to heart. The other men who’ve been accused didn’t have as much impact on me.
Ok thanks for reading this random thing.
It says a lot about our culture that these things happen so often.
I’m really sorry you are having to learn this lesson. I’ve recently had to understand the same thing about my Dad. It’s pretty hard. Internet hugs if wanted.
Your dad?? That’s much worse… I’m so sorry.
Well, I was about to defend him after reading that Meryl’s rep said that representation wasn’t portrayed correctly, and that Meryl accepted Hoffman’s apology… then I read a Salon article that listed a bunch of other things he also did and said. Well. I know that Salon can be a bit one-sided, but if even half of those things are true, then I just lost a lot of respect for him.
Oh, and it just hit me that Dina probably bought ALL those horrible Direct To VHS “Land Before Time” movies. They’re probably her “Dexter and Monkey Master”.
The top left panel here sums it up nicely:
http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1826
(It’s a dream sequence, so don’t mind how the things progresses)
(I have to admit, Dustin Hoffmann bothers me more than most. Because I expected him to not be that kind of guy.
Whereas Woody Allen… 🙄 already failed for me as a good person when I saw his “everything you always wanted to know about sex” because of his obvious hate and fear of women.
“But if I were to give up on you, I would not care enough to show you how I did it, is that not correct?”
I think that an intervention of some kind is needed before Amber throws herself off of the roof of the dorm building.
Needs a tag for Windblade 🙂
All the reader can see of.Amber is bits of her hair, arm and shirt. A different facet of emotion then when she was hiding than behind the tree, I think.
But a neat way to show her self-selected isolation. After the tiny eyes in the final panel yesterday, not seeing her face today makes me worry more.
And, yes, Dina is the best, and whatever percentage of Joyce she’s providing here is just right.
Amber, your mind is playing tricks on you again. Don’t listen.
Wouldn’t Amber have gotten a mandatory psych evaluation after stabbing the rapist? Or was evidence so clear nobod bothered to doubt her?
Mandatory psych exams would require some degree of probable cause and detention, which would in turn require some manner of psych exam or at least obvious mental problems. Obvious to the police, I mean.
That got dark.
So from the earliest comments, I can see that apparently something needed to be fixed when this strip was first posted, and it involved Faz?
What happened exactly?
Right now the storyline is “face the strange”, “faz is great” is two storylines later, and when the strip first posted it was listed as the first strip of “faz is great”
Hey why are you imitating me
Sympathy via light physical contact?
Amber seems not ready for that yet. I think Dina will err on the side of caution.
Be strong, Dina, be strong
I like how in the last two panels, the speech bubbles are aligned perfectly with Dina’s line of sight.
That is good work, David Willis.
Ooooh! Nice catch, and nice work!
So Dina’s not just immortal, she also can break the fourth wall at will?
That’s kinda awesome.
…. I think we’re overlooking the two most important questions here.
…..
…. which Transformer is that by Amber’s computer, and why didn’t Willis think that Transformer was important enough to tag?
Dude, how’d Amber get a Windblade?!
well it’s the takaratomy deco so presumably by ordering her online
Believe in the Dina that believes in you.
Speaking for myself, trying to convince me it’s not all that big of a deal can be helpful, or it can hurt more, pretty much just depending on *me* at that moment.
Like, “Wow, it’s pretty awful, but we can solve this/get through this, and I’ve got some ideas about how we can do that, if you want. Don’t worry, I won’t leave you to deal with this alone,” can be really helpful.
But, “I don’t know why you’re making such a big fuss about this stupid little thing,” just makes me feel worse and even more of a failure, even if it’s phrased more kindly, like “Don’t worry, this isn’t actually such a big deal after all,” or something. :/ It’s a hard, narrow path to walk, and it constantly shifts around.
What helps the most is understanding and empathy. Understand that, while from the outside, it might not seem like a big deal, whatever it is that’s bothering me so much (if it’s even one specific thing), from in here it’s overwhelming. It’s like having a cat sitting on your face. Cats: Pretty small, all things considered, not too much of an issue so long as they’re fed and their litterbox is cleaned on a regular basis. Cat on the lap: Pretty nice, actually. Cat snuggling in bed: Can be tremendously comforting. Cat sleeping on your face: OH GOD I CAN’T BREATHE. Someone standing to the side saying, “It’s just a cat, oh my god, anyways, I thought you wanted her in bed with you?!” is not helping, either in the understanding department nor in the THERE’S A CAT ON MY FACE AND I CAN’T BREATHE department.
Empathy ought to be self-explanatory, I would hope, especially for this crowd. 🙂 <3
Anyways, here, this short, sfw video on the difference between sympathy and empathy is actually really helpful.
<a href="http://cheezburger.com/56915969/this-short-cartoon-will-show-you-the-power-of-empathy-versus-sympathy-and-make-you-a-better-person"
Aargh that was supposed to be halfway up, and then I messed up the url ><
http://cheezburger.com/56915969/this-short-cartoon-will-show-you-the-power-of-empathy-versus-sympathy-and-make-you-a-better-person
oh my god the cat metaphor is fucking beautiful im stealing it