Phrasing? Well, it’s like Amber is glaring dagg-I mean, at least Dorothy has wit, since the pen is mightier than the swo-Well at least they are cutting to th-Man I am not feeling sharp thi-Dangit
Whilst there is whittle point in saying this, I guess the DOA commentariat has honed its wit to a razors’ edge … [computer appears to be dying to cut this off]
What, is that line supposed to be dramatic or something?
I don’t really see how, at this point, that particular realization warrants being on a final panel.
One of the first things Amazi-Girl did when talking to Dorothy was flatly deny it. Despite all the trust Dorothy thought they’d established, it turns out Amber lied to her. Dorothy is having to deal with this — not knowing the extent to which Amber divides herself from A-G, the fact that in A-G’s mind it wasn’t a lie because Amber’s the one who did it is not going to make that feel like less of a betrayal.
I thought of it more that Dorothy is seeing more about how deep the rabbit hole goes in Amber’s violent messy life. Attempting to murder a rapist is already intense, but attempting to murder (or at least gravely wound) your own parent indicates that something has gone seriously off the rails.
(In this case, it’s Blaine who went off the rails, like by a lifetime of abusing his family, but Dorothy didn’t know that yet. I don’t think Dorothy is judging, either, but she wants more info.)
Also, it’s a complicated tidbit of info to have. Clearly the cops haven’t figured it out, and won’t at this point. If I was Dorothy I wouldn’t be upset about the lie — anybody who hospitalized their dad is not gonna reveal that to their hallmate reporter acquaintance. But, it’s kind of a big thing to realize about somebody, that they hospitalized their dad, particularly when Dorothy has clearly never encountered violence in her own life. Dorothy is probably figuring out that all is not well, at all.
Considering Amber seems more put out about the shirt than what she did, and is apparently just annoyed she actually has to talk about it, all is most definitely not well.
Spot on, on all points.
Dorothy is realizing that A.G. is not a hobby, that Amber isn’t a cosplaying do-gooder. I don’t think she has the first notion how deep and dark that rabbit hole is.
And here’s the thing about AmaziGirl: She was first created to be a comparatively healthy violent outlet. AmaziGirl is a superhero. And in Amber’s mind, superheroes have a code don’t keep hurting people after winning. They only use enough force to take them out. They don’t hurt people beyond that just because it feels good hurting them.
And what happened that night broke that code. So AG could not allow herself to be the one that did it. It had to be Amber.
Amazi-Girl denied to Dorothy that Amazi-Girl attacked Blaine. For those who regard Amazi-Girl and Amber as the same person, that’s a lie. For those who regard Amazi-Girl and Amber as separate persons, that could be true. Both Amber and Amazi-Girl have been in the second category for the recent part of the story, but the attack on Ryan might conceivably be destabilizing the situation.
What’s dramatic is that they are going to have an actual conversation about it now. It’s not the revelation or Dorothy’s realization that’s important, it’s her bringing it up with Amber.
But we’re probably not going to see that conversation for another month or so, because “cliffhanger” is the new norm.
Has Willis ever had so many concurrent storylines in DoA? We’ve got:
Walky and Jason at the bar, possibly interacting with
Leslie and Stacy at the bar, possibly later interacting with
Becky and Dina at Leslie’s house
Walky’s impending review session with Dorothy, which may or may not be detoured by
Dorothy’s confrontation with Amber
Also, the bit about Sal and Danny hanging out doesn’t seem wrapped up yet. And who knows who Joyce and/or Joe and/or Mary and Peter may run into before we see anyone angstfully drifting off to a fitful sleep?
Excellent. I’ve been waiting for this since the attack.
Poor Dorothy must be feeling so betrayed. Not to mention dumb. After all, this is the sort of thing she’s supposed to be able to work out; but she was so blinded by the Amazi-Girl glamour that she’d didn’t question an open denial. Meaning that despite all their trust, Amber lied to her. (Bearing in mind that Dorothy doesn’t realise how deeply the A-G/Amber divide runs.) Note the emphasis on ‘was’, not on ‘you’.
But also that maybe the other residents were right not to want her as their RA, if she can’t even get that right… Instead of realising that Amber needed help, she just enabled her. That must sting.
Combined with her recent low grade, we may even have the potential for Dorothy to develop some self-loathing. After all, she’s a Willis character; why should she be spared it?
Because Dorothy was having a hero-worship of AmaziGirl.
And then Dorothy saw what Amber did to Gashface.
And remember, Dorothy doesn’t even know, not truly -know-, how complicated the whole Amber/AG situation really is. It is likely that she thinks AG is a persona, simply an extension of Amber.
So now Dorothy wants to know about the other side. The side she did not know before. The side that has the capacity for violence far beyond necessary of someone who (to Dorothy’s knowledge) is calling themselves a hero.
And Amber’s assault on her father is as good a place as any to start to delve into that other side.
Oh, and as Rabid Rabbit mentioned, AG did deny attacking Blaine. And while AG was telling the truth (despite wearing the costume, it was definitely Amber that attacked him), it’s a truth Dorothy doesn’t understand. To her, it currently seems like a lie.
Ah, the “I know you want to ask this, and I sure as hell don’t want to answer before you ask, but I recognize you deserve an answer”-variety of “Get on with it”. Been there before, on both sides of it.
You know, we should not forget that Amber encourages the question. She is done lying. Although whether she expected that question, remains to be seen.
Yes, but to my knowledge, nobody but the three involved knows this. Dorothy only ever found out about Amber’s dad being in hospital, nothing else. And trust me that he wouldn’t be likely to blurt out what had happened.
So, here we see the progression from “Amber does not want this conversation” to “Amber realising this conversation is going to happen, so might as well get it over with”.
At first, she tries the standard small-talk opening. It does not even feel like she’s that concerned with Dorothy, but rather is saying “how are you” because that’s how you usually open a conversation. She’s using it to feel out Dorothy rather than empathizing with her.
This is not a condemnation of her behaviour, by the way. I have never been in anything like her position, and so I cannot possibly say it’s wrong or right of her to do this.
Because what we see here cuts to the heart of the tragedy of Amber: That she has not had a (good) therapist in her life, the way Dorothy has. That she was instead encouraged by her abusive father to use violence to solve all her problems.
Which wonderfully backfired on him since he was one of her biggest problems.
But yeah, Amber’s not used to talking about her problems, because she grew up in a household where such things were pretty much forbidden.
So when Dorothy responds openly and earnestly, she does not even know what to say to that. All she can do is say “hn.” She is not being dismissive because she’s a jerk; it’s more like the surprise of the openness of Dorothy made her incapable of saying anything else.
And when Dorothy asks how she is…
Well, first of all, Dorothy is definitely asking out of genuine empathy here. She really wants to know how Amber is doing. And what’s more, she wants to know how Amber is feeling right now. True, she is also about to ask if Gashface hurt her, but her first question definitely involved the complete well-being of Amber.
But Amber focuses on the “physically OK” part of the question. Again, understandable. I won’t repeat why.
And then… Well, Dorothy is smart enough to wait for permission here. She is deliberately waiting for Amber to make the opening move in which -the- conversation can start happening, and not just small talk. She is waiting to see if Amber is going to shut her out or allow her in. And Amber, in the end, is not able to shut out Dorothy.
And this conversation is going to be painful for Amber. But I think it’s also going to be a necessary one. And I think Dorothy is the right person to have it with. She may have lost some of the hero-worship for AG, but she still have a lot of empathy for Amber; and she’s less likely to blurt out things that ends up bringing Amber to a worse place.
I certainly hope this ends in at least Amber opening up some about what happened to her, if not also her deep compartmentalizations/dissociation with regards to AG. Right now the only ones who have even an inkling about it are Danny and Ethan, and it’s ambiguous how much Ethan knows while Danny’s only started to scratch the surface before being shut out. And she really needs someone to talk to about that. Especially since we don’t know if AG’s been at all present in Amber’s head since the breakup and incident. (Certainly she’s not been out, but if she is an alter it’s probably not a good thing if she went silent, and it’d be odd given how active she was before to the point Amber had trouble remembering Amber things. That said I totally yield to actual experience there.) Also given we just saw Stacy in that Leslie strip for a reason, maybe we’ll get some parallel conversations between this and that? Not really relevant to the last point but I’m on mobile and can’t format properly.
I think it’s worth recognizing that Amber isn’t just making small-talk. Dorothy is someone under her protection, so it matters if Dorothy isn’t okay. She wouldn’t know what to do about it, but she needs to know that Dorothy made it without getting irreparably damaged.
I genuinely believe Amber has a low opinion of therapy due to her lived experience.
Therapy is about pouring out your pain and weaknesses in an attempt to overcome them, and Amber can’t do that. She can’t acknowledge that she’s a regular person who has been deeply traumatized, she’s convinced of her inherent worthlessness and inhumanity, whose sole saving grace is the ability to channel all the evil into Amazi-Girl as a positive force (before said positive force ruined her relationship with Danny, got the police after her for the car chase, and has just generally overwhelmed every aspect of her life).
As it stands, Amber would respond poorly to therapy; she can’t believe she deserves to get better, because there’s nothing worth salvaging.
Right, but the fact is that she either got no therapy or was sent to self defense class instead.
Amber doesn’t believe in her own self improvement, or that things can get better for her (the way, say, she fought to get Ethan to accept his sexuality, because she saw that Ethan was miserable and wanted him to be happy). Therapy will be useless for her until she recognizes that she’s not worthless.
Well, it’s likely moot for the moment. Amber’s not likely to decide to try therapy and anything that came to light that would get her sent involuntarily would likely have even more serious legal consequences.
I’ve been doing grav roulette on and off (because of aggressive adds and clearing all browser cookies and stuff and not remembering which capitalization of the email gave the grav I liked) and I never had trouble with that.
But one of my comments vanished without a trace two days ago, so maybe the trouble is not grav-roulette?
It seems to be a common WordPress issue. Had it happen a handful of times, and another blog I post to, my comments disappear into the aether with some regularity. (Especially when I’m talking about dinosaurs, oddly.)
okay, apparently I have to use both a new name and a new email address to bypass the comment glitch. and then wait for willis to fish it out of the moderation queue.
and the avatar it came with was Mary. of *course* it was. 😛
let’s see what happens to a second comment with that name/email…
Short of seeing a therapist, Dorothy is the best person Amber can have this conversation with. (I recognise some bits of myself in Dotty tbh and I’ve found myself in difficult emotionally laborious situations like this a Lot.)
Yeah, I had to change my name slightly and my email address. I literally couldn’t comment for a couple days after doing the grav roulette to try and get a different grav.
Oh, by the way, we have of course all* been happy with how the universe aligned in perfection so that Cerberus could be a motherfucking goddess every time she posts**…
…But I was wrong that that was the best part of the new avatar line-up.
*At least the ones of us that are regularly reading the comments.
**Since she didn’t have to spin the wheel, this also means all her previous comments are with the Carla avatar as well; so her comments in the past are -also- shown to be made by the motherfucking goddess that Cerberus is.
you guys know how I said I didn’t think superheroes were common in college? Well, it was my first night with my parents gone and I ran into a group of people wearing costumes. (They did not punch anyone thankfully) Also they were dressed in Christmas outfits and carrying a boombox.
Grav Roulette, I think we need to establish some ground rules.
…..
…. more to the point, we need to have a refresher on the ground rules that we established last time.
…..
…. actually, we need to have a refresher on those ground rules, AND THIS TIME you need to actually pay attention to them.
Ground Rule 1: No Mary. No. Just…. no.
Ground Rule 2: No Peter. (Yes, this is a new rule, but it’s essentially Ground Rule 1.)
Ground Rule 3: No Agatha. No. Just…. no.
I mean, it might be less obvious with Agatha. I’ve got very little problem with her AS A PERSON. She’s cheery. She’s nice. She isn’t abducting people like Blaine, or pulling weapons on people like Ryan, or doing both like Ross. She’s not even being a barely-tolerable human turd like Mike or Mary. She’s a bit sugary for me, but as a person she’s just fine.
But she’s the cast’s token Mormon. And she’s a bit part who has had very little character development. “Nice and Mormon” is about the sum total of her known non-physical attributes. Maybe if we knew more about her, maybe if we saw some of her complex circumstances (which surely exist, but might as well not as far as the audience is concerned), maybe then, depending on what was going on in her life. But as is, Agatha as my grav would leave me represented by 50% nice and 50% Mormonism.
Sooo…. no. NO. Just, no.
You hear me Grav Roulette? No Marys, no Peters, and no Agathas. …. Oh, and, if you throw Mike at me, do it at most ONCE so I can comment on him and move on.
You uh, still have Agatha.
…
Uh, do you remember who I originally posted as before the grav roulette glitches out on some of us? I’m just trying to gauge how many times I’ll have to explain the change for the community.
Careful, a couple of us experienced a major glitch after abusing the grav roulette system where we were unable to comment until changing both name and email addresses.
Dorothy has just asked a very pertinent question. When Danny asked the same question, Amber was honestly unsure of the answer. I wonder if she’s come to a firmer conclusion yet? I wonder if she’d ever wanted to work out an answer?
It…doesn’t seem like Amazigirl’s at home, or that she’s been around for Amber’s past few strips. I wonder if they’ve actually integrated or if Amber’s just too depressed.
Oh Amber, please, please please tell someone how you feel about the whole mess! Stop talking about shirts and your physical wellbeing.
OT: There’s some “don’t fall for nazi bullshit” video from WW2 supposed to have gone viral after Charlottesville but I didn’t bookmark it and can’t remember were I saw it. It was supposed to be an US propaganda video dating back to 1943 or something. Did anyone come across it and could help me out with a link?
Also:is the story true?
Hmm. I am noticing what Amber is saying and not saying. Amber is sticking to the facts and not touching emotional fallout. Amber is trying to not display vulnerability or emotions (abusers like to use negative emotions against people, even when a negative emotional response is normal and healthy. In my experience verbal and psychological abusers use displays of vulnerability as signs you are less capable or to lecture you about developing physical and emotional strength. For me I have a tendency to assume vulnerability will be used against me so I better apologize for displaying it at the time, lie, or I chose not to display it at all. I am working on that). I suspect Amber a. Knew this conversation is coming b. Rehearsed a bit what to say. I also suspect Amber is not comfortable revealing when she is feeling very vulnerable because of her shitty abusive dad. I read a lot of guilt and self loathing in Amber here. I have a lot of sympathy for her. using force to ensure the rapist would not go after Dorothy, Joyce, and herself was the right thing to do.
Also in my experience when I am anxious I use I/me pronouns less in speech and thought. Incomplete sentences are also a sign I am upset. My affect gets blunt in certainty ways on bad ptsd days.
I have no idea how this conversation will continue. Amber really could benefit from a friend other than Danny, Dina or Ethan and a good therapist. I do read this as Amber mainly fronting. I do not know much communication there is between the alters. I think establishing a line of communication between Amber and amazigirl would be a good idea.
Also I really like the art and writing in this strip. The body language is great.
Yup, it’s really revealing of how vulnerability has been used against her in the past. Which I suspect is a huge part of her “shutting down” coping strategy as well. If she’s just a nerd shut-in disappearing into her computer then she’s showing no vulnerability that can be used against her.
Huh roz again. I am not that confident at all. I do honestly look forward to getting Blowjobcat. I was happy to see that as an avatar option. Maybe because I like cats even in abstract horror elementary school art sculptures. It is kind of cute.
(Well, actually, it sounds like the avatars have re-randomized several times now, so I’ll clarify. I was able to get on three days ago, but not yesterday; sometime between then my email stopped working.) Anyway, hopefully this is a computer error and I haven’t egregiously offended someone without realizing. It sounded from yesterday’s comments like someone else had the same kind of issue. This is the second alternative email I’ve tried. This one seems to be working.
I still can’t believe TWO of my emails lost DoA commenting access due to this glitch, when I don’t even USE the second for DoA comments, at least not to my recollection (I wouldn’t be surprised if I had used it at least once by accident). It makes me wonder how many others might have lost access in this way.
Panel 1: I like that Amber leads with “how are you?”. As much as she’s convinced she’s an irredeemable monster, the Amber alter has always had a fierce empathy to her, thinking of others constantly and wanting to do right by them.
And the most awkward part of her and Dorothy right now is that she knows she’s lost Dorothy’s unabashed fangirlism, but the reason she did what she did was out of intense empathy, a desire to save Dorothy and all the others even if it meant showing another the darkness she feels is unforgivable.
I would even guess that that’s part of why she was in tears when she confronted Slashy McRapist.
And that second half… I feel so bad for Amber because she has so clearly internalized her dad’s antipathy for therapy and sees it as a sign of someone being broken.
Like… okay personal story. When my dad was sending his “your partner is a sorceress who made you trans and also you’re letting down the family” email, the inciting part of it all was the intense anger he felt that my mom was going to therapy to get outside help.
In his eyes, she was “driven” to therapy by my evil deeds and that therapy was something that people who have been broken by another go to and is a sign of awfulness, of having been irreparably harmed.
And in that one two letter word of “hn”, it’s clear that Amber has that same view, lovingly handed to her by her father. That Dorothy seeking therapy is not about her having lived through a traumatic event and needing outside help, but a specific harm that Amber has done to her by having her be witness to her “badness”, her “monstrosity”.
And it’s why I have a lot of faith in this interaction. Like, I’m going to guess that it’s not going to go smoothly, but Dorothy is incredibly empathetic herself and if there’s someone who can get through to Amber and help her, she’s one of the top contenders.
Cause she needs outside help. She needs outside perspectives to help her drain the cobwebs and trip mines her dad left behind. She needs support strategies to stop viewing herself as worthless and worsening her dissociation. And I’m hoping this is the beginning of a long arc of her getting that.
Panel 2: This one is heartbreaking. It was set up to be mutual empathy, with Dorothy asking how she was. But Amber is so wrapped up in the mythology that she is monstrous trash that she can’t even let the statement finish lest another think her worth caring about as a person.
And I’ve been there. In depression so thick that the love of others feels like a sick joke by a delusional person who can’t see what a failure you are. But for Amber it’s so much worse because she is so convinced her awfulness that part of her wants Dorothy to see her as awful, to hate her, to see her as a machine-like monster, as someone who cares more about blood on her shirts than other people.
But the real Amber already betrayed that self-destructive impulse. She already led with an emotional check-in. She’s not the monster she believes herself to be and trying to force herself into that role is not going to work because that’s not who she is.
She’s hurting, she’s going through hell, she’s lashing out because of it. But she’s not actually a monster.
Panel 5: And there’s a big shoe drop. And means that Dorothy is going to learn that Amber/AG is a multiple system. Because AG told the truth, that wasn’t AG, that was Amber, but that’s not a thing most people are going to be able to understand.
As seen in a lot of commentary about Amber/AG, there’s a lot of cultural idea that multiple system people are fakers trying to duck out of responsibility for things and that they know that their brains are actually super normative but pretend otherwise to play pretend.
And the reality is no. Like, most multiple system folks tend to take or want to take collective responsibility for actions that harm people. And it’s clear both Amber and AG have internalized a lot from that encounter with her father. However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t specific emotions or decisions that are very much one alter taking the lead or running the show.
That all said, if there’s someone (besides Dina) who is likely to get the whole multiple system deal (whether it be DID or something else), it’s Dorothy.
And I want that to happen, because Amber here is in the worst possible space and needs outside help. Needs folks who get it and can let her work through her issues of self-hatred and internalization. That can help her see that she’s not just the monster ball of rage her dad wanted her to become. She’s a complex caring person who will show her worst side to her biggest fan to save her.
That she’s someone who genuinely cares.
And that’s why this hurts for her so much. Because it’s the loss of someone who saw her as heroic, as not a broken mess of issues. But I trust that what will come of this will be a lot stronger as a result and a lot more helpful to who she is.
While this does show a lot of the “classic” signs of DID, the ability to switch back and forth between personalities both voluntarily and accidentally, coupled with the very minor differences between them and the fact that they have full awareness of each other and share memories….not DID and cannot be resolved the way DID is.
I don’t personally believe that multiple systems exist (they don’t exist except on the weird side of tumblr that glorifies mental illness), but if I did, I still wouldn’t call Amber/AG a multiple system since both sides seem to disappear when the other “fronts.” Amber does not hear AG’s voice and AG doesn’t think Amber is lurking somewhere underneath the surface. The insistence that each personality exists on a subconscious level at all times is an essential part of multiple systems, and we don’t see that here.
What it seems like to me is that Amber was feeling anxious and afraid of her anger issues, so she created a superhero persona and role played as her to justify being physically violent. If she were truly DID or a multiple system, she would change to AG and THEN put on her mask and costume, instead of the other way around. When she was running away from her father on Freshman Family Weekend, she seemed upset and furious until she put on the mask and then felt relief.
I think she relies on “Not being Amber” to escape the pressure she feels, but this is both an unhealthy and a stupid outlet for her problems, and Dorothy is about to find out the kind of odd depths that Amber went to in order to both escape consequences and justify her violent tendencies. “Amber didn’t do it, Amazi-Girl did it,” is not a valid excuse for someone who is simply pretending to not be Amber. (I know this kind of delegitimizes multiple systems but I have stated that she isn’t DID and I’m not sure what else to tell you except that multiple systems aren’t supported by the medical literature)
Don’t get me wrong, I love Amber and AG. But you can’t deny that she’s got issues, girl, and her method of coping is straight up unhealthy for her. Things are getting worse for her, and she’s losing control. The fantasy she created for herself is falling apart, and it’s becoming quite clear that what she needs is not for more people to validate her delusion but instead for her to start taking steps to resolve her anger issues in a healthier way.
Well, then you don’t think I exist, because I have DID and have had DID since at least when I was 5*.
And I was very deliberate with Amber to state that she is a multiple system whether that be DID or SOMETHING ELSE.
*Yes, diagnosis and everything, life experiences that do not make sense if I was not a multiple system, and so on and so forth. You can sneer at the condition if you so choose, but it is real as fuck and has been a huge part of what I’ve had to deal with growing up and what I still carry with me and will carry with me until the day I die.
If you don’t think Amber has DID, that’s fair (I personally believe she has Borderline Personality Disorder), but saying “multiple systems don’t exist” to someone who has DID is pretty crummy (which to be fair, you did not know).
I found two posts! This post and this post.
Taken together I get the impression the DID/BPD dynamic was an accident, but thanks to Cerberus noticing some warning signs, coming forward, and thus enabling others to do the same, now it’s canon. “Stop running roughshod over good people you didn’t know were real” is the heart of this comic, after all.
Be happy you never had do deal with multiple systems in real life (or haven’t noticed because there was only ever one alter interacting with you), but please don’t say it doesn’t exist, just because it’s not part of your experience.
Ok, I would just like to point out that multiple systems are being realized as an actual fact and condition in the community of mental health. It started being viewed as real and is slowly gaining traction in some other countries (most notably Germany, the birth place of psychology albeit Freudian psychology). Also, and this is important, we have seen Amber and AmaziGirl talk to each other. Back when Sal was initially trying to make contact with Amber in the sofa fort Amber made. So right there we have evidence of the two being very close to if not completely separate personal entities. And I just want to reiterate that multiple systems are real according to experts in the mental health field, but has, like all non-normative mental conditions, a heavy stigma around it. You’re enforcing that stigma right now. And multiple systems both do not work the way they are commonly portrayed in popular culture, nor is there one uniform experience of or example of multiple systems. This is because individuals experience such things differently. Saying that a person isn’t multiple systems because they show such and such behavior or don’t show such and such symptoms when there are an abundance of symptoms is ignoring the possibility of variation that every condition has. Also, a large portion of individuals who are DID will share memories between the different alters if they are working together in a conference type situation. And an alter can fully “disappear” while another alter is in charge.
Hmm. I just remembered something: a month ago, I completely didn’t understand how people could have alters of a different “age”. But since I started listening a bit more, I’ve noticed at least one that does seem like a child. It makes sense now, even though mine don’t make claims about their identity, having experienced it made something click.
A couple of points, off on another tangent from what Cerberus and others have said: Amber is a fictional character. Even if you don’t believe multiple systems exist in reality or that Amber shows the correct signs, that doesn’t mean Amber and Amazi-Girl aren’t a multiple system in this fiction. What matters for that is what Willis thinks of DID and how he thinks it works.
It would still be possible for Amber to have DID, even if DID wasn’t real.
I do think the presentation of Amber and Amazi-Girl’s relationship has changed over time and it’s not entirely clear how much of that is just a change in presentation due to story or dramatic needs and how much is meant to reflect an actual change in Amber’s condition over time. My reading is that the separation has been getting worse and may not have actually existed in the early strips. There Amber may really have been “pretending”. If so, I’d guess the actual break may have taken place when Amber beat Blaine into the ground.
I suspect the divide is still getting worse – we’ve recently seen the two alters talk to each other, which is new as far as I remember,
It’s clear to me you have absolutely no business talking about what is or is not supported by medical literature. Interpret the character however the hell you want, but take your dismissive, condescending armchair psychologist shit and shove it somewhere uncomfortable.
When Cerberus suggests that Amber has DID or other form of multiple system, she’s not saying Amber is dealing with her problems in a healthy manner, nor is she excusing anything Amber/AG has done wrong, or in any way “denying that she has issues”. You clearly seem to think so despite Cerberus going on to express how she hopes Dorothy will be able to help Amber find healthier ways to cope.
This notion that some mental illnesses are just made up by people trying to escape responsibility for their own actions is harmful, ablest bullshit.
It amazes me that you can have so many opinions on what DID is and isn’t despite not believing it exists in the first place. You’re basically claiming someone’s invisible unicorn is definitely blue, not pink.
Anyways, Amber still seems likely to be at the OSDD end of the spectrum. Which reminds me I found some others, I should go see if they’ve said anything interesting; it’s nice to have people who can relate to that.
Now I really wish I could use my Amber gravatar 🙂 maybe in a few days I’ll see if that address is still glitched. Or maybe I’ll do a custom gravatar thingy someday… Ohhhhhh anxiety doesn’t like that idea :p
When you say that you don’t think that “multiple systems” exist and that they are not supported by medical literature, are you still referring to DID (because that’s the way I read it and looking at the other comments, so did other people)? Because if you are, I can safely say that you are definitely wrong. I’m a medical student, just a little short of graduating. While DID is an understudied disorder, it is most definitely considered to exist and medical literature supports it. In my bookself there happens to be a book about psychiatrics, which also includes a chapter on DID. In pubmed, typing “dissociative identity disorder” gives you thousands of results, including this review article on the subject, which states in it’s abstract:
“Given the current evidence, DID as a diagnostic entity cannot be explained as a phenomenon created by iatrogenic influences, suggestibility, malingering, or social role-taking. On the contrary, DID is an empirically robust chronic psychiatric disorder based on neurobiological, cognitive, and interpersonal non-integration as a response to unbearable stress.” (Sar et al. Revisiting the etiological aspects of dissociative identity disorder: a biopsychosocial perspective. Psychol Res Behav Manag. 2017)
So basically it is considered to be a real disorder and as stated above not just a matter of taking a social role or a result of suggestibility. When it comes to Amber, I can’t say what specific psychiatric disorder she may have. I just wanted to answer your comment about DID since it concerns my own professional field (although I have no plans to specialize in psychiatry), mental health patients have enough stigma as it is* and because “DID is not supported by medical literature” is such an obviously false fact for anyone who has bothered to study the subject even for a little bit. Which is why I wonder if I have read your comment correctly? The way you and other people have been using the term “multiple system”, it seems to be referring to DID (and possibly some other dissociative disorders), but am I interpreting that correctly? (English isn’t my first language.)
Anyway, my point was simply to say that DID and other dissociative disorders most definitely exist and are supported by current medical literature. And somehow I seem to have written an essay about it -_-
Oh well. Not what I thought my first post in this site would be but I guess it will do. Been lurking around the comment section for a while and I have to say that it really does differ a lot from what I have come to expect from comment sections in general (in a good way) 🙂
Good night/day/whatever time it is there for everyone!
*in that in many cases the mental disorders are not considered to be “real” disorders and patients are thought to be acting the way they are only for attention or for example depressed people having their disorder dismissed and being told that they are just lazy or to “just get over it”
Cool!! My first two weeks as a full-time teacher haven’t been going so well. Half the students don’t like me because they view me as too strict, and I’ve already needed to hold a parent teacher conference because of one student’s…disruptive bigotry, which it turns out he learned from home. I had to try explaining to these two parents that the school has an anti-bullying, and thus an anti-hate speech policy. When the father tried to make a free speech argument I pointed out that this is a private school, and that their son had to agree to the policies in the student handbook in order to enroll here in the first place. Then the mother got involved, eventually a slur for a trans woman was thrown by her, and I had to end the meeting early. Damn legacy students. They think they’re entitled to do as the want because their parents were big shots when attending, and paid their entry fee with a donation toward renovating the library.
…
Good news is, none of the other teachers or administrators like the student. He’s most likely getting expelled soon, since I already disciplined him for next week for speaking disrespectively to other students and saying “Fuck you teach. You can’t tell me what to do, my parents are the reason you have a salary!” to me when I demanded he stop harassing another student who happens to be trans. The deans are on my side. The dad’s some sort of wealthy up-middle class alt-tighter, and the mother is transphobic, homophobic, and racist against at least against Arabic peoples given her use of the slur for someone who wears a turban. So, yeah. Until he’s gotten rid of, he’s going to be a nightmare while here. So yeah, tough first couple of weeks. Still, my rep from my subbing days is still strong, so any students with a bully problem still feels safe informing me about it, and my LGBT+ freshman know I’m in their corner, so I guess things aren’t entirely bad.
So good to read that! I hope it keeps like this, you definitely deserve your new job being good for you. I’ve just met you here in this forum and have learned much from your posts, and I don’t care that that might sound cheesy, so your students are definitely lucky to have you as a teacher 🙂
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“oh, yeahhhh, Amazi-Girl dipped out then, huh… shit, there goes my alibi”
Mystery solved!
With this kind of deductive reasoning Dorothy could be an Ace Detective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6gzqwqCb8E
Dammit, second place.
Wait, attacker? I don’t remember, did she ever attack her father when he wasn’t being threatening?
As far as Dorothy knows, Blaine was attacked. Nobody but Amber and Danny knows the whole story.
Her father was using Danny to get to her during freshman family weekend.
Phrasing? Well, it’s like Amber is glaring dagg-I mean, at least Dorothy has wit, since the pen is mightier than the swo-Well at least they are cutting to th-Man I am not feeling sharp thi-Dangit
Don’t worry alt-text, it’s just a phone.
This has now transcended its original context, and is hereby declared a permanent meme along with FEMURS and FAAAAACE.
“Gonna sharpen one of the FEMURS you need to live and use as it a phone to mess up your FAAAAAAACE!
…for a nickel.”
-predicted future comment aimed at Clint, Mary and/or Peter
Dorothy thinks she’s so clever, but that was clearly just a
stab in the dark… oops …Come on, let’s just cut it ou…. oh, hell.
You guys have a sharp sense of humour.
Well, now my appetite has been whetted …
Whilst there is whittle point in saying this, I guess the DOA commentariat has honed its wit to a razors’ edge … [computer appears to be dying to cut this off]
I don’t know. Seems a little phone-y to me.
You guys! these puns are butchering– err, making
the situation messier!
I love Amber’s expressions in panels 4 and 5. She’s changed.
Yes, that’s what crippling self-doubt and feelings of hatred towards oneself will do to you.
Yes. Own it, Amber!
Reltzik gets 12 Imperial Internet Points for calling this strip so hard yesterday.
What, is that line supposed to be dramatic or something?
I don’t really see how, at this point, that particular realization warrants being on a final panel.
One of the first things Amazi-Girl did when talking to Dorothy was flatly deny it. Despite all the trust Dorothy thought they’d established, it turns out Amber lied to her. Dorothy is having to deal with this — not knowing the extent to which Amber divides herself from A-G, the fact that in A-G’s mind it wasn’t a lie because Amber’s the one who did it is not going to make that feel like less of a betrayal.
I thought of it more that Dorothy is seeing more about how deep the rabbit hole goes in Amber’s violent messy life. Attempting to murder a rapist is already intense, but attempting to murder (or at least gravely wound) your own parent indicates that something has gone seriously off the rails.
(In this case, it’s Blaine who went off the rails, like by a lifetime of abusing his family, but Dorothy didn’t know that yet. I don’t think Dorothy is judging, either, but she wants more info.)
Also, it’s a complicated tidbit of info to have. Clearly the cops haven’t figured it out, and won’t at this point. If I was Dorothy I wouldn’t be upset about the lie — anybody who hospitalized their dad is not gonna reveal that to their hallmate reporter acquaintance. But, it’s kind of a big thing to realize about somebody, that they hospitalized their dad, particularly when Dorothy has clearly never encountered violence in her own life. Dorothy is probably figuring out that all is not well, at all.
Considering Amber seems more put out about the shirt than what she did, and is apparently just annoyed she actually has to talk about it, all is most definitely not well.
Spot on, on all points.
Dorothy is realizing that A.G. is not a hobby, that Amber isn’t a cosplaying do-gooder. I don’t think she has the first notion how deep and dark that rabbit hole is.
Whoa, AmaziGirl denied KO-ing Blaine to Dorothy before?!
Well, explaining that Danny was in some sort of danger could justify the force — or not, I don’t know.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/keeping/
And here’s the thing about AmaziGirl: She was first created to be a comparatively healthy violent outlet. AmaziGirl is a superhero. And in Amber’s mind, superheroes have a code don’t keep hurting people after winning. They only use enough force to take them out. They don’t hurt people beyond that just because it feels good hurting them.
And what happened that night broke that code. So AG could not allow herself to be the one that did it. It had to be Amber.
Well, fuhhh— foop. That was a jaw-dropper.
That was going to be my reply, as well – Amazi-Girl wasn’t there at the time, it was all Amber.
This is verified here, in the tagging and alt-text. Amber attacked her father, not AG.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/hostage/
Man, I wasn’t aware of the tags’ significance at the time.
To be fair, it wasn’t Amazi-Girl who attacked Blaine. It was Amber.
Amazi-Girl denied to Dorothy that Amazi-Girl attacked Blaine. For those who regard Amazi-Girl and Amber as the same person, that’s a lie. For those who regard Amazi-Girl and Amber as separate persons, that could be true. Both Amber and Amazi-Girl have been in the second category for the recent part of the story, but the attack on Ryan might conceivably be destabilizing the situation.
What’s dramatic is that they are going to have an actual conversation about it now. It’s not the revelation or Dorothy’s realization that’s important, it’s her bringing it up with Amber.
But we’re probably not going to see that conversation for another month or so, because “cliffhanger” is the new norm.
Has Willis ever had so many concurrent storylines in DoA? We’ve got:
Walky and Jason at the bar, possibly interacting with
Leslie and Stacy at the bar, possibly later interacting with
Becky and Dina at Leslie’s house
Walky’s impending review session with Dorothy, which may or may not be detoured by
Dorothy’s confrontation with Amber
Also, the bit about Sal and Danny hanging out doesn’t seem wrapped up yet. And who knows who Joyce and/or Joe and/or Mary and Peter may run into before we see anyone angstfully drifting off to a fitful sleep?
That’s kind of an odd place to go, huh
Yeah, I thought that was kind of a leap. Dorothy wasn’t even there; only Danny was, but I don’t think Dorothy (or anyone else) even knows that.
Dorothy already suspected that Danny and Amazi-Girl had been the two people spotted there, and actually questioned Danny about it way back then.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/keeping/
And as for why, I refer to Rabid Rabbit’s comment below. Their take on the situation is pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyQSPF_8Qk
I am having memory problems. When was Amber’s dad attacked?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/misconception/ and onwards.
Wait, we missed seeing Dorothy’s family?
*screams “no!” into the heavens*
*clicks the button leading to nooooooooooooooo.com*
*plays Bryan Adams’ second or third most-famous song on the hacked Muzak*
This wouldn’t be the first time
Things have gone astray–but you threw it all away…
Excellent. I’ve been waiting for this since the attack.
Poor Dorothy must be feeling so betrayed. Not to mention dumb. After all, this is the sort of thing she’s supposed to be able to work out; but she was so blinded by the Amazi-Girl glamour that she’d didn’t question an open denial. Meaning that despite all their trust, Amber lied to her. (Bearing in mind that Dorothy doesn’t realise how deeply the A-G/Amber divide runs.) Note the emphasis on ‘was’, not on ‘you’.
But also that maybe the other residents were right not to want her as their RA, if she can’t even get that right… Instead of realising that Amber needed help, she just enabled her. That must sting.
Combined with her recent low grade, we may even have the potential for Dorothy to develop some self-loathing. After all, she’s a Willis character; why should she be spared it?
“Note the emphasis on ‘was’, not on ‘you’.”
I did not even catch that, but you are absolutely correct.
Oh, geez, well ain’t this a loaded conversation.
More of a double-edged conversation, but that’s kinda the point.
“It was a good shirt. It honored me.”
I didn’t expect this to be what Dorothy wanted to say to her at all. I’m almost kind of confused why she even finds it relevant, after what happened.
Because Dorothy was having a hero-worship of AmaziGirl.
And then Dorothy saw what Amber did to Gashface.
And remember, Dorothy doesn’t even know, not truly -know-, how complicated the whole Amber/AG situation really is. It is likely that she thinks AG is a persona, simply an extension of Amber.
So now Dorothy wants to know about the other side. The side she did not know before. The side that has the capacity for violence far beyond necessary of someone who (to Dorothy’s knowledge) is calling themselves a hero.
And Amber’s assault on her father is as good a place as any to start to delve into that other side.
Oh, and as Rabid Rabbit mentioned, AG did deny attacking Blaine. And while AG was telling the truth (despite wearing the costume, it was definitely Amber that attacked him), it’s a truth Dorothy doesn’t understand. To her, it currently seems like a lie.
Remaining silent is often a good option.
Like here.
Read “your father was you” for a second there and ohh boy that would’ve made for a far weirder turn off events.
Then who was phone?
What’chu think, I’m stupid? This isn’t my dad. This is a cell phone!
D’oh, I knew I should have looked up the lyrics first.
“This ain’t my dad, this is a cell phone!”
Who was knife?
Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Who was driving?
Oh my god bear was driving! How can this be?!
Phrasing indeed.
Has Willis been bingewatching Archer?
I wasn’t aware ‘phrasing’ was back in the…
(Rotation?)
…Rotation!
At first I was thinking, “Aren’t you guys hot? Why does everyone in this comic wear two shirts?”
Then I remembered. Indiana.
Indiana in October.
Yeah, realized that too, a little late.
Indiana in the fall, even.
Winters in Indiana are mild, though, and fall isn’t all that cold either. Throw on a hoodie and you’re set.
Ah, the “I know you want to ask this, and I sure as hell don’t want to answer before you ask, but I recognize you deserve an answer”-variety of “Get on with it”. Been there before, on both sides of it.
You know, we should not forget that Amber encourages the question. She is done lying. Although whether she expected that question, remains to be seen.
You could cut the tension with a phone.
ha
I wonder how this is going to end…
Interesting how both Joyce and Amber clutch their hands in stressful conversations.
I think a lot of people do that.
Hell, I do that.
Well, they are just pallette-swapped versions of each other. :p
That’s Dorothy and Amber.
Um… didn’t Amber’s dad kidnap Danny to use him as bait for her?
Yes, but to my knowledge, nobody but the three involved knows this. Dorothy only ever found out about Amber’s dad being in hospital, nothing else. And trust me that he wouldn’t be likely to blurt out what had happened.
As I recall Dorothy asked her if was her and she lied about it.
Yes, but I was talking about the specific point of Blaine kidnapping Danny. Dorothy did not know about that part.
He certainly did, lured him under false pretenses.
So, here we see the progression from “Amber does not want this conversation” to “Amber realising this conversation is going to happen, so might as well get it over with”.
At first, she tries the standard small-talk opening. It does not even feel like she’s that concerned with Dorothy, but rather is saying “how are you” because that’s how you usually open a conversation. She’s using it to feel out Dorothy rather than empathizing with her.
This is not a condemnation of her behaviour, by the way. I have never been in anything like her position, and so I cannot possibly say it’s wrong or right of her to do this.
Because what we see here cuts to the heart of the tragedy of Amber: That she has not had a (good) therapist in her life, the way Dorothy has. That she was instead encouraged by her abusive father to use violence to solve all her problems.
Which wonderfully backfired on him since he was one of her biggest problems.
But yeah, Amber’s not used to talking about her problems, because she grew up in a household where such things were pretty much forbidden.
So when Dorothy responds openly and earnestly, she does not even know what to say to that. All she can do is say “hn.” She is not being dismissive because she’s a jerk; it’s more like the surprise of the openness of Dorothy made her incapable of saying anything else.
And when Dorothy asks how she is…
Well, first of all, Dorothy is definitely asking out of genuine empathy here. She really wants to know how Amber is doing. And what’s more, she wants to know how Amber is feeling right now. True, she is also about to ask if Gashface hurt her, but her first question definitely involved the complete well-being of Amber.
But Amber focuses on the “physically OK” part of the question. Again, understandable. I won’t repeat why.
And then… Well, Dorothy is smart enough to wait for permission here. She is deliberately waiting for Amber to make the opening move in which -the- conversation can start happening, and not just small talk. She is waiting to see if Amber is going to shut her out or allow her in. And Amber, in the end, is not able to shut out Dorothy.
And this conversation is going to be painful for Amber. But I think it’s also going to be a necessary one. And I think Dorothy is the right person to have it with. She may have lost some of the hero-worship for AG, but she still have a lot of empathy for Amber; and she’s less likely to blurt out things that ends up bringing Amber to a worse place.
I certainly hope this ends in at least Amber opening up some about what happened to her, if not also her deep compartmentalizations/dissociation with regards to AG. Right now the only ones who have even an inkling about it are Danny and Ethan, and it’s ambiguous how much Ethan knows while Danny’s only started to scratch the surface before being shut out. And she really needs someone to talk to about that. Especially since we don’t know if AG’s been at all present in Amber’s head since the breakup and incident. (Certainly she’s not been out, but if she is an alter it’s probably not a good thing if she went silent, and it’d be odd given how active she was before to the point Amber had trouble remembering Amber things. That said I totally yield to actual experience there.) Also given we just saw Stacy in that Leslie strip for a reason, maybe we’ll get some parallel conversations between this and that? Not really relevant to the last point but I’m on mobile and can’t format properly.
I think it’s worth recognizing that Amber isn’t just making small-talk. Dorothy is someone under her protection, so it matters if Dorothy isn’t okay. She wouldn’t know what to do about it, but she needs to know that Dorothy made it without getting irreparably damaged.
Someone has to have.
I genuinely believe Amber has a low opinion of therapy due to her lived experience.
Therapy is about pouring out your pain and weaknesses in an attempt to overcome them, and Amber can’t do that. She can’t acknowledge that she’s a regular person who has been deeply traumatized, she’s convinced of her inherent worthlessness and inhumanity, whose sole saving grace is the ability to channel all the evil into Amazi-Girl as a positive force (before said positive force ruined her relationship with Danny, got the police after her for the car chase, and has just generally overwhelmed every aspect of her life).
As it stands, Amber would respond poorly to therapy; she can’t believe she deserves to get better, because there’s nothing worth salvaging.
That’s what therapy is for. 🙂
I’m not sure Amber has any strong opinion about therapy at all. She’s never had any.
Right, but the fact is that she either got no therapy or was sent to self defense class instead.
Amber doesn’t believe in her own self improvement, or that things can get better for her (the way, say, she fought to get Ethan to accept his sexuality, because she saw that Ethan was miserable and wanted him to be happy). Therapy will be useless for her until she recognizes that she’s not worthless.
Ruth didn’t believe in her self improvement or that things could get better. Therapy seemed to help. Already. Admittedly with some drugs as well.
It will certainly be hard to get through to her, but it’s possible for a therapist to help her make that realization.
Of course, a therapist could talk to Amazi-Girl as well, who doesn’t think she’s worthless.
I feel that the fact that it worked for Ruth will be why it will work differently for Amber.
Well, it’s likely moot for the moment. Amber’s not likely to decide to try therapy and anything that came to light that would get her sent involuntarily would likely have even more serious legal consequences.
The grav roulette seems to have broken my ability to comment. Not sure if this will work, but my name was Keulan before if it does work.
At least you got Sal this time around. I’m not sure Howard is much of an improvement over Arnold or whatever my previous grav’s name is.
Same here. I was Rukduk. Now I’m Rukdug. And I’m trapped with Mary as I dare not risk the wrath of the Grav Roulette again.
Sal’s not my favorite, but I’ll stay with her grav. I’m not gonna risk the grav roulette glitch again.
I’ve been doing grav roulette on and off (because of aggressive adds and clearing all browser cookies and stuff and not remembering which capitalization of the email gave the grav I liked) and I never had trouble with that.
But one of my comments vanished without a trace two days ago, so maybe the trouble is not grav-roulette?
It seems to be a common WordPress issue. Had it happen a handful of times, and another blog I post to, my comments disappear into the aether with some regularity. (Especially when I’m talking about dinosaurs, oddly.)
Yeah, I had to try three different emails. And I’m still not sure if it’s working.
new email *and* new name, will that go to /dev/null too?
Fuck
Now, now, they haven’t even kissed yet! And, honestly, now is not the best time for that ship.
You really stay in character, huh? Bravo
No fault of yours, but I feel oddly offended by that compliment. I rarely stay in character; this comedic miss of the point was genuine me.
I guess I chose my username too accurately, but making these Gravs is fun.
okay, apparently I have to use both a new name and a new email address to bypass the comment glitch. and then wait for willis to fish it out of the moderation queue.
and the avatar it came with was Mary. of *course* it was. 😛
let’s see what happens to a second comment with that name/email…
Avatar Mry looks so happy!
Okay, so is Amber’s Panel 1 “Hn” an unhappy response to Dorothy’s comment about family visiting, or about seeing a therapist?
SURELY only ONE of those could be the cause!
Leave it alone, Dorothy
Short of seeing a therapist, Dorothy is the best person Amber can have this conversation with. (I recognise some bits of myself in Dotty tbh and I’ve found myself in difficult emotionally laborious situations like this a Lot.)
I am amused that this is happening while Willis himself can’t post to patreon. 🙂
assuming that this comment will see the light of day once he’s done with that fight… what was I going to say?
Rukduk: thank you for your comments, you weren’t the only one feeling paranoid about this comment glitch. 🙂
anyone else who suddenly can’t comment: try changing both your name and your email address at the same time.
as for the comic… wtf, dorothy? I was not expecting that at all, and now I’m not expecting this conversation to go well. :/
and, phone meme is best meme. 🙂
Yeah, I had to change my name slightly and my email address. I literally couldn’t comment for a couple days after doing the grav roulette to try and get a different grav.
Maybe grav roulette triggered a spam filter.
I’ve been playing grav roulette a bit, too – let’s see whether I can still post, and who I am now.
Yer an alcoholic, ‘obilis.
Oh, by the way, we have of course all* been happy with how the universe aligned in perfection so that Cerberus could be a motherfucking goddess every time she posts**…
…But I was wrong that that was the best part of the new avatar line-up.
-THIS- is the coolest part.
*At least the ones of us that are regularly reading the comments.
**Since she didn’t have to spin the wheel, this also means all her previous comments are with the Carla avatar as well; so her comments in the past are -also- shown to be made by the motherfucking goddess that Cerberus is.
Yeah I love how Spot got Carla. =)
Alex’s comments on seeing herself in the comic give me life. 😀
you guys know how I said I didn’t think superheroes were common in college? Well, it was my first night with my parents gone and I ran into a group of people wearing costumes. (They did not punch anyone thankfully) Also they were dressed in Christmas outfits and carrying a boombox.
WTF
Watch the TV show “Leverage”. Specifically, “The Ho Ho Ho Job”.
Did you catch the epsiode where Tim Hutton’s character dressed up as “Ellery Queen, the world’s greatest detective” for a costume party?
Good stuff for us Jim Hutton / EQ fans.
Listen again to Ellery Queen’s Minute Mysteries.
*spins*
Grav Roulette, I think we need to establish some ground rules.
…..
…. more to the point, we need to have a refresher on the ground rules that we established last time.
…..
…. actually, we need to have a refresher on those ground rules, AND THIS TIME you need to actually pay attention to them.
Ground Rule 1: No Mary. No. Just…. no.
Ground Rule 2: No Peter. (Yes, this is a new rule, but it’s essentially Ground Rule 1.)
Ground Rule 3: No Agatha. No. Just…. no.
I mean, it might be less obvious with Agatha. I’ve got very little problem with her AS A PERSON. She’s cheery. She’s nice. She isn’t abducting people like Blaine, or pulling weapons on people like Ryan, or doing both like Ross. She’s not even being a barely-tolerable human turd like Mike or Mary. She’s a bit sugary for me, but as a person she’s just fine.
But she’s the cast’s token Mormon. And she’s a bit part who has had very little character development. “Nice and Mormon” is about the sum total of her known non-physical attributes. Maybe if we knew more about her, maybe if we saw some of her complex circumstances (which surely exist, but might as well not as far as the audience is concerned), maybe then, depending on what was going on in her life. But as is, Agatha as my grav would leave me represented by 50% nice and 50% Mormonism.
Sooo…. no. NO. Just, no.
You hear me Grav Roulette? No Marys, no Peters, and no Agathas. …. Oh, and, if you throw Mike at me, do it at most ONCE so I can comment on him and move on.
Got it?
You going to behave this time around?
Really?
GOOD.
You uh, still have Agatha.
…
Uh, do you remember who I originally posted as before the grav roulette glitches out on some of us? I’m just trying to gauge how many times I’ll have to explain the change for the community.
Dorothy is Dorothying right.
Grav roulette don’t let me down!
I finally figured u out
hu gallaso again? do I need to change the capitalisation every time?
So I do, what if I run out of letters?
also why are all my avatars angry/sad/tired, give me some happy!
…the hell is that
THANK YOU GOD
…again!
I hope I get a becky this time
Last one, thank you for joining my journey!
Careful, a couple of us experienced a major glitch after abusing the grav roulette system where we were unable to comment until changing both name and email addresses.
It’s Blowjob Cat!
oh god now I recognize it dear god why
You mean “Dear god, why did I not stop when I got Blowjob Cat, the most excellent avatar anyone could possibly hope to get”, right?
Why would you forsake Blowjob Cat? Who would do such a thing?
You make a valid point my liege/your highness/appropriate addressing for an emperor.
ah dangit
Anything that feeds my delusions of grandeur is appropriate.
Also, superfluous.
Your Grandeurness?
Your Delusionaless?
How do you grav roulette?
Change the capitalizing of one letter in your email and you’ll get another random grav.
Repeat as wanted.,
Huh I never knew.
Also at gravatar .com you can upload + assign gravs for the email you use here. It will follow you to some other places on the internet.
My predictive.speller wants to know why I’m so interested in graves now.
Dorothy has just asked a very pertinent question. When Danny asked the same question, Amber was honestly unsure of the answer. I wonder if she’s come to a firmer conclusion yet? I wonder if she’d ever wanted to work out an answer?
Well, this is…a very fragile situation that good quickly go bad.
Oh, did the roulette change again?
It…doesn’t seem like Amazigirl’s at home, or that she’s been around for Amber’s past few strips. I wonder if they’ve actually integrated or if Amber’s just too depressed.
Oh Amber, please, please please tell someone how you feel about the whole mess! Stop talking about shirts and your physical wellbeing.
OT: There’s some “don’t fall for nazi bullshit” video from WW2 supposed to have gone viral after Charlottesville but I didn’t bookmark it and can’t remember were I saw it. It was supposed to be an US propaganda video dating back to 1943 or something. Did anyone come across it and could help me out with a link?
Also:is the story true?
hopefully this works! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk
That’s it! Thanks 😃
Hell, is there a was to provide subtitles that are accurate? The automatic subtitles are way off.
#TopTenAnimeBetrayals
Hmm. I am noticing what Amber is saying and not saying. Amber is sticking to the facts and not touching emotional fallout. Amber is trying to not display vulnerability or emotions (abusers like to use negative emotions against people, even when a negative emotional response is normal and healthy. In my experience verbal and psychological abusers use displays of vulnerability as signs you are less capable or to lecture you about developing physical and emotional strength. For me I have a tendency to assume vulnerability will be used against me so I better apologize for displaying it at the time, lie, or I chose not to display it at all. I am working on that). I suspect Amber a. Knew this conversation is coming b. Rehearsed a bit what to say. I also suspect Amber is not comfortable revealing when she is feeling very vulnerable because of her shitty abusive dad. I read a lot of guilt and self loathing in Amber here. I have a lot of sympathy for her. using force to ensure the rapist would not go after Dorothy, Joyce, and herself was the right thing to do.
Also in my experience when I am anxious I use I/me pronouns less in speech and thought. Incomplete sentences are also a sign I am upset. My affect gets blunt in certainty ways on bad ptsd days.
I have no idea how this conversation will continue. Amber really could benefit from a friend other than Danny, Dina or Ethan and a good therapist. I do read this as Amber mainly fronting. I do not know much communication there is between the alters. I think establishing a line of communication between Amber and amazigirl would be a good idea.
Also I really like the art and writing in this strip. The body language is great.
Yup, it’s really revealing of how vulnerability has been used against her in the past. Which I suspect is a huge part of her “shutting down” coping strategy as well. If she’s just a nerd shut-in disappearing into her computer then she’s showing no vulnerability that can be used against her.
Huh roz again. I am not that confident at all. I do honestly look forward to getting Blowjobcat. I was happy to see that as an avatar option. Maybe because I like cats even in abstract horror elementary school art sculptures. It is kind of cute.
Hey, so my normal email hasn’t been able to get on since the last gravatar switch
(Well, actually, it sounds like the avatars have re-randomized several times now, so I’ll clarify. I was able to get on three days ago, but not yesterday; sometime between then my email stopped working.) Anyway, hopefully this is a computer error and I haven’t egregiously offended someone without realizing. It sounded from yesterday’s comments like someone else had the same kind of issue. This is the second alternative email I’ve tried. This one seems to be working.
I still can’t believe TWO of my emails lost DoA commenting access due to this glitch, when I don’t even USE the second for DoA comments, at least not to my recollection (I wouldn’t be surprised if I had used it at least once by accident). It makes me wonder how many others might have lost access in this way.
(Also, if I have actually offended someone, I’m really sorry.)
Comic Reaction:
Panel 1: I like that Amber leads with “how are you?”. As much as she’s convinced she’s an irredeemable monster, the Amber alter has always had a fierce empathy to her, thinking of others constantly and wanting to do right by them.
And the most awkward part of her and Dorothy right now is that she knows she’s lost Dorothy’s unabashed fangirlism, but the reason she did what she did was out of intense empathy, a desire to save Dorothy and all the others even if it meant showing another the darkness she feels is unforgivable.
I would even guess that that’s part of why she was in tears when she confronted Slashy McRapist.
And that second half… I feel so bad for Amber because she has so clearly internalized her dad’s antipathy for therapy and sees it as a sign of someone being broken.
Like… okay personal story. When my dad was sending his “your partner is a sorceress who made you trans and also you’re letting down the family” email, the inciting part of it all was the intense anger he felt that my mom was going to therapy to get outside help.
In his eyes, she was “driven” to therapy by my evil deeds and that therapy was something that people who have been broken by another go to and is a sign of awfulness, of having been irreparably harmed.
And in that one two letter word of “hn”, it’s clear that Amber has that same view, lovingly handed to her by her father. That Dorothy seeking therapy is not about her having lived through a traumatic event and needing outside help, but a specific harm that Amber has done to her by having her be witness to her “badness”, her “monstrosity”.
And it’s why I have a lot of faith in this interaction. Like, I’m going to guess that it’s not going to go smoothly, but Dorothy is incredibly empathetic herself and if there’s someone who can get through to Amber and help her, she’s one of the top contenders.
Cause she needs outside help. She needs outside perspectives to help her drain the cobwebs and trip mines her dad left behind. She needs support strategies to stop viewing herself as worthless and worsening her dissociation. And I’m hoping this is the beginning of a long arc of her getting that.
Panel 2: This one is heartbreaking. It was set up to be mutual empathy, with Dorothy asking how she was. But Amber is so wrapped up in the mythology that she is monstrous trash that she can’t even let the statement finish lest another think her worth caring about as a person.
And I’ve been there. In depression so thick that the love of others feels like a sick joke by a delusional person who can’t see what a failure you are. But for Amber it’s so much worse because she is so convinced her awfulness that part of her wants Dorothy to see her as awful, to hate her, to see her as a machine-like monster, as someone who cares more about blood on her shirts than other people.
But the real Amber already betrayed that self-destructive impulse. She already led with an emotional check-in. She’s not the monster she believes herself to be and trying to force herself into that role is not going to work because that’s not who she is.
She’s hurting, she’s going through hell, she’s lashing out because of it. But she’s not actually a monster.
Panel 5: And there’s a big shoe drop. And means that Dorothy is going to learn that Amber/AG is a multiple system. Because AG told the truth, that wasn’t AG, that was Amber, but that’s not a thing most people are going to be able to understand.
As seen in a lot of commentary about Amber/AG, there’s a lot of cultural idea that multiple system people are fakers trying to duck out of responsibility for things and that they know that their brains are actually super normative but pretend otherwise to play pretend.
And the reality is no. Like, most multiple system folks tend to take or want to take collective responsibility for actions that harm people. And it’s clear both Amber and AG have internalized a lot from that encounter with her father. However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t specific emotions or decisions that are very much one alter taking the lead or running the show.
That all said, if there’s someone (besides Dina) who is likely to get the whole multiple system deal (whether it be DID or something else), it’s Dorothy.
And I want that to happen, because Amber here is in the worst possible space and needs outside help. Needs folks who get it and can let her work through her issues of self-hatred and internalization. That can help her see that she’s not just the monster ball of rage her dad wanted her to become. She’s a complex caring person who will show her worst side to her biggest fan to save her.
That she’s someone who genuinely cares.
And that’s why this hurts for her so much. Because it’s the loss of someone who saw her as heroic, as not a broken mess of issues. But I trust that what will come of this will be a lot stronger as a result and a lot more helpful to who she is.
While this does show a lot of the “classic” signs of DID, the ability to switch back and forth between personalities both voluntarily and accidentally, coupled with the very minor differences between them and the fact that they have full awareness of each other and share memories….not DID and cannot be resolved the way DID is.
I don’t personally believe that multiple systems exist (they don’t exist except on the weird side of tumblr that glorifies mental illness), but if I did, I still wouldn’t call Amber/AG a multiple system since both sides seem to disappear when the other “fronts.” Amber does not hear AG’s voice and AG doesn’t think Amber is lurking somewhere underneath the surface. The insistence that each personality exists on a subconscious level at all times is an essential part of multiple systems, and we don’t see that here.
What it seems like to me is that Amber was feeling anxious and afraid of her anger issues, so she created a superhero persona and role played as her to justify being physically violent. If she were truly DID or a multiple system, she would change to AG and THEN put on her mask and costume, instead of the other way around. When she was running away from her father on Freshman Family Weekend, she seemed upset and furious until she put on the mask and then felt relief.
I think she relies on “Not being Amber” to escape the pressure she feels, but this is both an unhealthy and a stupid outlet for her problems, and Dorothy is about to find out the kind of odd depths that Amber went to in order to both escape consequences and justify her violent tendencies. “Amber didn’t do it, Amazi-Girl did it,” is not a valid excuse for someone who is simply pretending to not be Amber. (I know this kind of delegitimizes multiple systems but I have stated that she isn’t DID and I’m not sure what else to tell you except that multiple systems aren’t supported by the medical literature)
Don’t get me wrong, I love Amber and AG. But you can’t deny that she’s got issues, girl, and her method of coping is straight up unhealthy for her. Things are getting worse for her, and she’s losing control. The fantasy she created for herself is falling apart, and it’s becoming quite clear that what she needs is not for more people to validate her delusion but instead for her to start taking steps to resolve her anger issues in a healthier way.
Well, then you don’t think I exist, because I have DID and have had DID since at least when I was 5*.
And I was very deliberate with Amber to state that she is a multiple system whether that be DID or SOMETHING ELSE.
*Yes, diagnosis and everything, life experiences that do not make sense if I was not a multiple system, and so on and so forth. You can sneer at the condition if you so choose, but it is real as fuck and has been a huge part of what I’ve had to deal with growing up and what I still carry with me and will carry with me until the day I die.
If you don’t think Amber has DID, that’s fair (I personally believe she has Borderline Personality Disorder), but saying “multiple systems don’t exist” to someone who has DID is pretty crummy (which to be fair, you did not know).
I would say BPD is a good shout after that one Willis post.
What post?
There was a tumblr post a while back with a BPD reader talking about how much they saw in common with Amber that Willis was super responsive about.
I found two posts!
This post and
this post.
Taken together I get the impression the DID/BPD dynamic was an accident, but thanks to Cerberus noticing some warning signs, coming forward, and thus enabling others to do the same, now it’s canon. “Stop running roughshod over good people you didn’t know were real” is the heart of this comic, after all.
Be happy you never had do deal with multiple systems in real life (or haven’t noticed because there was only ever one alter interacting with you), but please don’t say it doesn’t exist, just because it’s not part of your experience.
Ok, I would just like to point out that multiple systems are being realized as an actual fact and condition in the community of mental health. It started being viewed as real and is slowly gaining traction in some other countries (most notably Germany, the birth place of psychology albeit Freudian psychology). Also, and this is important, we have seen Amber and AmaziGirl talk to each other. Back when Sal was initially trying to make contact with Amber in the sofa fort Amber made. So right there we have evidence of the two being very close to if not completely separate personal entities. And I just want to reiterate that multiple systems are real according to experts in the mental health field, but has, like all non-normative mental conditions, a heavy stigma around it. You’re enforcing that stigma right now. And multiple systems both do not work the way they are commonly portrayed in popular culture, nor is there one uniform experience of or example of multiple systems. This is because individuals experience such things differently. Saying that a person isn’t multiple systems because they show such and such behavior or don’t show such and such symptoms when there are an abundance of symptoms is ignoring the possibility of variation that every condition has. Also, a large portion of individuals who are DID will share memories between the different alters if they are working together in a conference type situation. And an alter can fully “disappear” while another alter is in charge.
Hmm. I just remembered something: a month ago, I completely didn’t understand how people could have alters of a different “age”. But since I started listening a bit more, I’ve noticed at least one that does seem like a child. It makes sense now, even though mine don’t make claims about their identity, having experienced it made something click.
A couple of points, off on another tangent from what Cerberus and others have said: Amber is a fictional character. Even if you don’t believe multiple systems exist in reality or that Amber shows the correct signs, that doesn’t mean Amber and Amazi-Girl aren’t a multiple system in this fiction. What matters for that is what Willis thinks of DID and how he thinks it works.
It would still be possible for Amber to have DID, even if DID wasn’t real.
I do think the presentation of Amber and Amazi-Girl’s relationship has changed over time and it’s not entirely clear how much of that is just a change in presentation due to story or dramatic needs and how much is meant to reflect an actual change in Amber’s condition over time. My reading is that the separation has been getting worse and may not have actually existed in the early strips. There Amber may really have been “pretending”. If so, I’d guess the actual break may have taken place when Amber beat Blaine into the ground.
I suspect the divide is still getting worse – we’ve recently seen the two alters talk to each other, which is new as far as I remember,
@BigGuy:
It’s clear to me you have absolutely no business talking about what is or is not supported by medical literature. Interpret the character however the hell you want, but take your dismissive, condescending armchair psychologist shit and shove it somewhere uncomfortable.
When Cerberus suggests that Amber has DID or other form of multiple system, she’s not saying Amber is dealing with her problems in a healthy manner, nor is she excusing anything Amber/AG has done wrong, or in any way “denying that she has issues”. You clearly seem to think so despite Cerberus going on to express how she hopes Dorothy will be able to help Amber find healthier ways to cope.
This notion that some mental illnesses are just made up by people trying to escape responsibility for their own actions is harmful, ablest bullshit.
It amazes me that you can have so many opinions on what DID is and isn’t despite not believing it exists in the first place. You’re basically claiming someone’s invisible unicorn is definitely blue, not pink.
Anyways, Amber still seems likely to be at the OSDD end of the spectrum. Which reminds me I found some others, I should go see if they’ve said anything interesting; it’s nice to have people who can relate to that.
Now I really wish I could use my Amber gravatar 🙂 maybe in a few days I’ll see if that address is still glitched. Or maybe I’ll do a custom gravatar thingy someday… Ohhhhhh anxiety doesn’t like that idea :p
It also amazes me that my comments still come out sounding arrogant when I’m.. whatever I am right now
It’s like this part of me is still the oblivious teenager that … Well… That still had self-confidence based on that blissful ignorance… :/
Ow, thinking about this stuff still brings the headache back.
*hugs offered*
*hugs* 🙂
Ok, first time commenting here…
When you say that you don’t think that “multiple systems” exist and that they are not supported by medical literature, are you still referring to DID (because that’s the way I read it and looking at the other comments, so did other people)? Because if you are, I can safely say that you are definitely wrong. I’m a medical student, just a little short of graduating. While DID is an understudied disorder, it is most definitely considered to exist and medical literature supports it. In my bookself there happens to be a book about psychiatrics, which also includes a chapter on DID. In pubmed, typing “dissociative identity disorder” gives you thousands of results, including this review article on the subject, which states in it’s abstract:
“Given the current evidence, DID as a diagnostic entity cannot be explained as a phenomenon created by iatrogenic influences, suggestibility, malingering, or social role-taking. On the contrary, DID is an empirically robust chronic psychiatric disorder based on neurobiological, cognitive, and interpersonal non-integration as a response to unbearable stress.” (Sar et al. Revisiting the etiological aspects of dissociative identity disorder: a biopsychosocial perspective. Psychol Res Behav Manag. 2017)
So basically it is considered to be a real disorder and as stated above not just a matter of taking a social role or a result of suggestibility. When it comes to Amber, I can’t say what specific psychiatric disorder she may have. I just wanted to answer your comment about DID since it concerns my own professional field (although I have no plans to specialize in psychiatry), mental health patients have enough stigma as it is* and because “DID is not supported by medical literature” is such an obviously false fact for anyone who has bothered to study the subject even for a little bit. Which is why I wonder if I have read your comment correctly? The way you and other people have been using the term “multiple system”, it seems to be referring to DID (and possibly some other dissociative disorders), but am I interpreting that correctly? (English isn’t my first language.)
Anyway, my point was simply to say that DID and other dissociative disorders most definitely exist and are supported by current medical literature. And somehow I seem to have written an essay about it -_-
Oh well. Not what I thought my first post in this site would be but I guess it will do. Been lurking around the comment section for a while and I have to say that it really does differ a lot from what I have come to expect from comment sections in general (in a good way) 🙂
Good night/day/whatever time it is there for everyone!
*in that in many cases the mental disorders are not considered to be “real” disorders and patients are thought to be acting the way they are only for attention or for example depressed people having their disorder dismissed and being told that they are just lazy or to “just get over it”
Would you say Amazi-girl is in a bad space too?
Also OT, I started my first full week of teaching at my new job and have apparently been getting good reviews from the students so YAY!
Congrats!
^^^ ^^^
Aww crud, html heart and smiley face symbols don’t render Anyway congratulations!
Thanks! and Thanks! to Spencer as well.
No surprise there. Just shows your students have some sense. 🙂
Awesome!
Cool!! My first two weeks as a full-time teacher haven’t been going so well. Half the students don’t like me because they view me as too strict, and I’ve already needed to hold a parent teacher conference because of one student’s…disruptive bigotry, which it turns out he learned from home. I had to try explaining to these two parents that the school has an anti-bullying, and thus an anti-hate speech policy. When the father tried to make a free speech argument I pointed out that this is a private school, and that their son had to agree to the policies in the student handbook in order to enroll here in the first place. Then the mother got involved, eventually a slur for a trans woman was thrown by her, and I had to end the meeting early. Damn legacy students. They think they’re entitled to do as the want because their parents were big shots when attending, and paid their entry fee with a donation toward renovating the library.
…
Good news is, none of the other teachers or administrators like the student. He’s most likely getting expelled soon, since I already disciplined him for next week for speaking disrespectively to other students and saying “Fuck you teach. You can’t tell me what to do, my parents are the reason you have a salary!” to me when I demanded he stop harassing another student who happens to be trans. The deans are on my side. The dad’s some sort of wealthy up-middle class alt-tighter, and the mother is transphobic, homophobic, and racist against at least against Arabic peoples given her use of the slur for someone who wears a turban. So, yeah. Until he’s gotten rid of, he’s going to be a nightmare while here. So yeah, tough first couple of weeks. Still, my rep from my subbing days is still strong, so any students with a bully problem still feels safe informing me about it, and my LGBT+ freshman know I’m in their corner, so I guess things aren’t entirely bad.
That’s good that you’re being seen as safe and have the support of your administrators. I think the rest will work itself out in time. 🙂
But anyways, congrats. I hope this environment stays better than the old one became. And your students are lucky to have you.
Lucky students.
🙂 🙂 yay!
So good to read that! I hope it keeps like this, you definitely deserve your new job being good for you. I’ve just met you here in this forum and have learned much from your posts, and I don’t care that that might sound cheesy, so your students are definitely lucky to have you as a teacher 🙂
Congratulations!
Best. Hovertext. Ever.
I will now taunt the gravatar glitch!
‘Server not found?’
It was right there a minute ago!
Thanks to the master sheet someone linked to, I know that’s Beatrice.
Nash? have we ever even -seen- her?
Hurrah and thumbs up to Cerberus and Rukduk!
I raise this donut to your honor!
An hour or so to go and, hopefully, Mayweather gets his ass handed to him
(he won’t but it’d be nice to see)